asked the Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he is aware that the Swedish Government, through SIDA, spent million of shillings to rehabilitate Jomo Kenyatta Sports Ground in Kisumu Town; (b) whether he is further aware that the project was to be handed over to the public, but it is now being run as a private property; and, (c) whether he could table the audited reports on accounts of the project since it was completed.

The Minister for Local Government! Not present! I will check on it later. The hon. Member for Rongo!

asked the Minister for Health:- (a) whether she is aware that Rongo District missed out when ambulances were being given to every district hospital in December, 2006; and, (b) when she will give an ambulance to Rongo Sub-District Hospital.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that Rongo District was not allocated an ambulance in 2006. However, the district was allocated a new 4 X 4 Double-Cabin vehicle in June, 2007. (b) My Ministry will consider procuring an ambulance for Rongo Sub-District Hospital in the current financial year.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that appears to be a good answer, but it is misleading. The Assistant Minister who is responding is my neighbour. When was that 4 X 4 vehicle delivered and to whom? What is the registration number of that vehicle? That is because there is no such thing!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may not have the registration number with me now. But I am aware and sure that, that vehicle was delivered to the district hospital in June, 2007. 3374 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister comes from the neighbourhood. He has even visited Rongo. Is he in order to say that a 4 X 4 Double-Cabin vehicle was delivered to Rongo Sub-District Hospital in June this year, when I and everybody else knows that there was no such vehicle. Is he in order to mislead this House?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the hon. Member says that everybody is aware that there is no such a situation, I am not included. That is because I am aware that there is 4 X 4 Double-Cabin vehicle that was delivered to Rongo District in June, 2007.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that the Ministry is delivering ambulances to sub- district hospitals, when would the Assistant Minister supply ambulances to Marani and Manga sub- district hospitals?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will do that as soon as funds are available.

Last question, Mr. Ochilo-Ayacko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister, in the answer to part (b) of the Question, has indicated that he will procure an ambulance for Rongo this financial year. When is the exact date or month when that ambulance would be available?

Order! Order! Mr. Ojode, could you give away that stick? It will be given to you when you are ready to move.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, what is it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if they take away my other leg, if I want to consult the Chair, it will be very difficult!.

It will be given to you. For the time being, it is an offensive weapon. So, keep it away.

Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Order! Mr. Ojode, you see, that is the more reason why---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, what is it!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for taking away that stick because Mr. Ojode has been threatening to hit me with it so that I can move.

Order! Mr. Ojode, taking ianto account your occasional temperament, that stick must be taken away from you; and taken away very quickly. Serjeant-at-Arms, will you take it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was just last week when Dr. Machage insisted that, because of an accident, Mr. Ojode needs to use that third leg all the time! Indeed, the same Chair ruled in favour of that and he has been using that leg. So, the same Chair, again, is changing. Could I be guided? August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3375

Order! You do not need your leg to sit. Do you? You do not sit on your legs. Give it away! We will not have any more of that!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it?

Mr. Speaking Sir, we cannot trust Dr. Machage. He is a gynaecologist!

Order, Members! Peana hiyo kitu mara moja! Okay, mambo yamekwisha! Yes, what is it, Dr. Machage?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to finish answering the question from hon. Ochilo-Ayacko. As the Assistant Minister for Health, I have given my word

that the hospital in his constituency will be given an ambulance. I think that is enough.

The Minister has just received this Question, which was transferred to her and she is not ready with the answer. Can I defer it until Tuesday, next week? Is that okay with you, Prof. Oniang'o?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will consult the Minister and we shall agree on the date.

So, the Question is deferred to Tuesday, next week.

asked the Minister for Roads and Public Works:- (a) if he is aware that Road E628, Wamumu-Gachoka, in Gachoka Constituency is in a pathetic condition; and, (b) when it will be repaired.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that a stretch of the 12 kilometres road between Thiba River and Kakindu River, which is part of the Wamumu-Gachoka Road, is in poor condition. (b) the road will be repaired during this Financial Year, 2006/2008.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the most important road in the whole of Mbeere District. The section the Assistant Minister is referring to is very short. When will the Government tarmack this road which cuts across the entire district so that our District Commissioner (DC) becomes accessible? At the moment, it is impossible to reach our DC. When is this road going to be tarmacked?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this road is 47 kilometres long and all the other sections, 3376 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 apart from the 12 kilometres I have talked about, are in a fairly good condition. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this financial year, Kshs3 million has been set aside from the 16 per cent Fuel Levy to work on this 12 kilometres stretch. As for the time it will be tarmacked, we do not have immediate plans this financial year or the next one to tarmack the 47 kilometres stretch.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Ministry is really letting down Kenyans. Every major road is in a state of disrepair. For example, the Maai Mahiu-Narok Road is impassable. The Nakuru-Kericho Road is also impassable and so is the Nanyuki-Dol Dol Road.

What is the policy of this Ministry with regard to repairing our roads as emergency works?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the hon. Member wants to have the sympathy of the Chair, but he will not have mine. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are so many roads that are being gravelled and tarmacked. At all times, there will be roads that are in poor condition. Even 20 years down the line, we will still be talking about roads that are in poor condition. This is because we cannot tarmack all the roads in Kenya at once. So, let us look at what the Ministry is doing at the moment and what we would like to do in the future.

Mr. J. Nyagah, ask the last question!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Kshs3 million is not enough to do this road. When the previous Government was in power, it---

Where you were!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we were able to upgrade the road to a very high level of murram. Could the Assistant Minister, and the able Government, do this road to motorable standards even if they have no money to tarmack it? That is what I am asking for so that I can get to my DC on time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, during the hon. Member's campaigns to become the President of the Republic of Kenya, he has at no time said what he will do to this road when he becomes President of this country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, talking about what the previous Government did, it is true that they did something, but that road was not worked on when he was a Minister. That is why, at the moment, we recognise that 12 kilometres of that road are the ones that need repairs. We have set aside Kshs3 million this financial year for that purpose. Last year, Kshs2.3 million was used on the same section of the road. So, he will be able to access his DC.

Very well! Next Question, Mr. Keter!

asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) what the acreage of land is at Solio Ranch in Laikipia which the Government intends to buy for the resettlement of squatters; (b) if he could table the valuation report for the land; and, (c) if he could further table the sale agreement between the Government and owner of the aforementioned piece of land.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3377 (a) The acreage of land that the Government intends to buy for resettlement of squatters in Solio Ranch Limited in Laikipia is 15,000 acres. (b) Yes, I can table the valuation report for the land in question. (c) I can further table a copy of the draft sale agreement between the Government and the owner of the aforementioned piece of land. I now wish to table both the valuation report and the sale agreement for your perusal and further necessary action.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the valuation report which was given for the 15,000 acres of land is Kshs750 million, which translates to Kshs50,000 per acre. I would like to know from the Assistant Minister why the value of the land was increased from Kshs50,000 an acre to Kshs85,000 an acre on the same 15,000 acres of land.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to say that this issue has a pending litigation. The Ministry will not proceed with the transaction of buying this land unless and until the case between the Attorney-General and a company called Ngucho Kanyuriria Kahito Traders Limited is dispensed of. So, unless this case is cleared, we are not going to do anything with this land. Mr. Speaker, Sir, nevertheless, usually, when land is subdivided, the value goes up as opposed to when it has not been divided because of what we call the quantum factor. So, the value of that piece of land was raised because of what we call the quantum factor. Again, the value of land in that particular area is about Kshs150,000 an acre. So, this is far below the existing local price.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the Assistant Minister has not answered the question. Hon. Keter said that the valuation is Kshs50,000 per acre and yet the Government wants to pay Kshs85,000 per acre! Why could the Government not buy the land first and then subdivide it using the services of its officers in the Ministry of Lands? Why would you want to incur an additional Kshs35,000 per acre just because of the subdivision?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that was a decision that was made by the Ministry after thorough consultation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the most corrupt Ministry we have ever had.

Order, Mr. Ojode! Quite frankly, that is a blanket condemnation! Do you have facts?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, why do you not listen to, Mr. Ojode, first?

Order! You know the Chair is not a stone! Do you know why you have the Speaker in the first place? It is to ensure orderly conduct of proceedings! I do not think that, that is orderly. You, yourself was an Assistant Minister in that Ministry.

That is right, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As the Chair, you are very right. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this parcel of land was a Government property. It was then given to an individual so that he could sell it back to the Government. That is why even the former Commissioner of Lands; Mrs. Okungu, was transferred. Mrs. Njenga, the Land Adjudication Director and many others were also transferred. Could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that they were offered Kshs50,000 per acre, but they insisted that they had to increase the price per 3378 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 acreage? Otherwise, I will expose him?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Ojode was a former Assistant Minister in this Ministry. I want to admit that he was part and parcel of the decisions we are implementing right now. Secondly, the transfer of the officers mentioned was done in accordance with the regulations of the Civil Service. I do not think there was anything irregular about the transfers. Thirdly, I have talked about the quantum factor in the transfer of land. The amount was increased due to the subsequent sub-division. Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, I am sure, Mr. Ojode, reads newspapers. When the Transparency International (TI) gave its report yesterday, I think this Ministry was not mentioned as the most corrupt. You know the Ministry that was top in terms of the corruption index. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is nothing with this transaction, but the hon. Member should know that we are not proceeding with the sale of this piece of land because of the pending litigations. So, most of whatever we are discussing is actually sub judice .

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You heard the Assistant Minister say that I was an Assistant Minister in that Ministry. We worked very well with Mr. Kimunya and we were not corrupt. However, this particular parcel of land was Government land. They then gave it to an individual to sell it back to them at more than the rate the owner wanted. Could he confirm or deny that they decided that the land which was supposed to be sold at Kshs50,000 per acre had to go for Kshs85,000 and that is what caused the transfer of the directors of other departments? He has not confirmed or denied this!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is not saying anything new. That is what he has just---

Order! I do not know what gets into Mr. Ojode! In fact, why do you even need that walking stick?

Are you sure you need it for the purposes of walking or for other extraneous purposes? You seem to be very agile! Will you now obey the law of gravity and sit down?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For the second or third time, have you noticed that every time Mr. Ojode stands up, he raises his hand so that you can see him? Is it in order that we raise our hands? I thought we should just stand up to catch your eye.

Exactly! You must stand motionless!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to ask Mr. Ojode to stand when he knows very well that he was involved in an accident and even now he has a walking stick?

August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3379

Order, hon. Members! Mr. Kombe, are you suggesting that the Chair does not have eyes? I can see him stand up and in a very agile manner too! Mr. Assistant Minister, please, proceed!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Ojode has just said that he worked with hon. Kimunya in this Ministry and they were not corrupt. I just want to repeat that the present Minister and Assistant Minister; Prof. Kibwana and I, are very spotless. We are not corrupt. If he has any substantive evidence he would rather table it. Otherwise, Mr. Ojode is supposed to withdraw and apologise without conditions. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to clarify that Solio Ranch has never been Government land from the colonial time. I would like to confirm that to the House for record purposes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister insists that this transaction is above board. If you follow the proceedings, you will find that there is this discrepancy of the valuation rising from Kshs50,000 per acre to Kshs85,000 per acre. The issue that comes out from the supplementary question by Mr. Ojode, which the Assistant Minister is dodging is that when the Ministerial tender committee of this department was disbanded; the Commissioner of Lands, Mrs. Okungu, Mrs. Njenga, Mrs. Mutugi and others could not agree with the instruction to authorise the transactions to raise the price from Kshs50,000 to Kshs85,000. Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister state that this list of eight, who disagreed with the instruction were not kicked out of the department and the Ministry all together to pave way for this transaction to go on un-interrupted?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to deny that. Secondly, this case has a pending litigation. We are not proceeding with it. It is almost a non-issue. So, actually this is something we are not proceeding with. I do not know why we should keep on pursuing it when it is a non-issue at the moment.

Last question, Mr. Keter!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the additional Kshs35,000 per acre will cost the Government over Kshs525 million. Could the Minister tell this House whether there is something being done by the Government now concerning the said plot?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member is being vague. I want him to be very clear with his question.

Could the Assistant Minister inform this House whether there is some demarcation being done on the parcel of land as I talk right now?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to confirm or clarify that officers who were transferred from that Ministry had absolutely nothing to do with the Solio Ranch transaction. Secondly, on the issue of the work that is going on in Solio Ranch at the moment, I want to confirm that I am not aware. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Very well, that is the end of Question Time! Or did I have one more? Oh, yes! There is one more by the hon. Member for Kisumu Town West. Sorry! Proceed!

3380 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 REHABILITATION OF JOMO KENYATTA SPORTS GROUND BY SIDA

asked the Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he is aware that the Swedish Government, through SIDA, spent millions of shillings to rehabilitate Jomo Kenyatta Sports Ground in Kisumu Town; (b) whether he is further aware that the project was to be handed over to the public, but it is now being run as a private property; and, (c) whether he could table the audited reports on the accounts of the project since it was completed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence for coming late. My apologies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Swedish Government, through the Swedish International Development Agency (SIDA), spent Kshs95 million to reconstruct Jomo Kenyatta Sports Ground in Kisumu, during the financial year 2001/2002. The project is currently managed by Lake Victoria Trust Fund, as per the agreement entered between the Municipal Council of Kisumu and the Swedish Government. (b) The project has not been handed over to the private company as alleged by the Questioner. (c) I, hereby, lay the audited accounts for the year 2004 to 2006 on the Table. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First of all, let me thank the Swedish Government for putting Kshs95 million into that project. That was supposed to be a self-sustaining project. Part (b) of my question---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, part (b) of my question is not alleging that, that project was handed over to a private company. It is being run as a private company. Could the Assistant Minister confirm or deny that the trustees are the ones who are actually running that business as a private enterprise?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I confirmed that the sports ground is being managed by Lake Victoria Trust Fund. That Trust Fund was, more or less, a conditionality by the financier - SIDA. There are representatives from the council, SIDA and members of the public. So, the Trust Fund is, more or less, a creature of the council and the financier. So, I do not think that it is being run as a private company. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has said that it is being run, I hope, on behalf of the municipal council by that Trust Fund. How much does the municipality get out of that business per month or per year?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have laid the audited accounts on the Table. They are here for perusal by the hon. Member. I can only further state that it was supposed to be a self- sustaining project and, after that, it would be handed over to the council. What is strange is that the August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3381 council entered into an agency agreement with the Fund. That agency agreement can be terminated if any of the parties gives a one year notice. So, at a certain point, if the municipal council does not want to continue with that arrangement, they can give that notice. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. What plans does the Assistant Minister have to make sure that all football clubs in the country are not denied access to stadiums that are being managed by municipalities, as the case in Mombasa regarding Coast Stars?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, generally, my Ministry is not in charge of the stadia in this country. That is the responsibility of the Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has just laid those audited accounts on the Table. Those accounts actually involve money. It may be a lot of money. May I request the Chair to defer this Question so that we could study those accounts?

That is not necessary! You just study those accounts and if there is anything you want to follow up, you know how to do it according to either Standing Order No.17 or 18. You all have it! Last question, Rev. Nyagudi!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could the Assistant Minister name those who are actually the trustees of that Trust Fund?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the original trustees' term of office expired. But I can now name the current trustees. They are Daniel Mojo, Albert Okeyo, Charles Handa, Judith Tolo, Betty Okelo, Olang' Oluoch, Her Worship, the Mayor, the Town Clerk of Kisumu and Major Babari. Those are the current trustees of the Trust Fund.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am aware that those new trustees have not taken office. Could the Assistant Minister tell this House when they will take up the office?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, they will take the office immediately. Thank you.

Very well. I just want to inform the House that the document that has been laid on the Table is partially signed. It has only been signed by the auditors. The trustees have not signed it. It is being received on that understanding. It is partially signed only by the auditors and not by the trustees. So, that is the end of Question Time! Mr. Kamotho!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Having said that the document which has been laid on the Table by the Assistant Minister is not signed properly,

would it be in order to request that the Question be stood over so that the Assistant Minister could provide us with a properly signed document?

As I have said--- I have not said that it is not properly signed! I said that it is partially signed. The auditors have signed their bit, but the trustees have not. The trustees have to accept or not the accuracy of that information. I have just accepted it on that basis. I will not defer the Question! Very well. Proceed, Mr. Kamotho!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Administration and National Security. Mr. Speaker, Sir, last Saturday, 18th August, 2007, at around 6.30 p.m., an operation was carried out by the police at Kiriaini Trading Centre of Keru Location, Murang'a District. The operation led to a lot of beating of the citizens in the area indiscriminately, ending up with the death of one person. Thereafter, about 50 people were arrested and locked in a small police station in Kiriaini. They were released the next morning after paying Kshs1,000 each to the police station, without even being charged with any offence. Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Minister tell this House what the operation was for, and why should innocent people be beaten up indiscriminately by the police while they are expected to maintain peace and security whenever they are?

Is there any Minister?

Asante, Bw. Spika. Nimefuatilia kwa makini malalamishi ya mhe. Kamotho na tutaleta taarifa kuhusiana na jambo hili siku ya Jumatano ijayo.

Asante! ALLOCATION OF BARAGONI HOLDING GROUND

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, the Chair ordered the Minister for Livestock and Fisheries Development to bring here a letter cancelling the lease agreement for Kshs30,000 acres of Baragoni Holding Grounds. It looks like the Minister and the Assistant Minister are not here. I would like the Chair to tell us what we should do in order for us to save the 30,000 acres which will go to a private developer. In fact, the area hon. Member, Mr. Twaha, is very mad about this issue.

I am not so sure whether I had told the Minister to do it this afternoon or tomorrow. I hope the Minister will be here tomorrow. I have some doubt whether I directed that it be done today or Thursday.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we undertake to remind the Minister about it so that he comes ready tomorrow.

Thank you. I think that is the end of all matters other than business. Next Order!

Was there anybody on the Floor? Mr. Muiruri! Is Mr. Muiruri there? He is, therefore, deemed to have concluded his speech! Mr. Lesrima!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join my other colleagues in congratulating the Minister, and his team, for the reforms that they have carried out in the water sector over the last four years. What these reforms have yielded are some very good results, and what I would like to recommend, or suggest, is that we need to continuously involve parliamentarians in information sharing. Judging from the Questions we had this morning, it was very clear that a number of us were not aware of the Water Services Trust Fund, for example. In addition to involving parliamentarians in these reforms, I know that some seminars have been carried out, but a lot of change has taken place and a number of us require more information, so that we can work together. I am one of the hon. Members who work very well with engineers in my constituencies. Sometimes, I feel that the Water Engineer should be a member of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), because the only civil servant we have in the CDF Committee, under the current law, is the District Officer (DO). I believe the purpose of that was for the DO to represent the District Commissioner (DC), who is the manager of all Government departments. So, I want to say that the Ministry has done extremely well out there in these reforms. We also want capacity building for our communities. As the Ministry hands over the management of water to the people of Kenya, I think capacity building at the grassroots level is absolutely essential, so that people can utilise water properly.

Also, water companies have been set up. Some of them are in areas where the economy is not very strong. It is important that the water companies are supported with seed money, or given an opportunity to settle down, as water companies, before they begin to charge---

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need your protection from my colleagues, or I move to another---

Order, hon. Members! Let us give the hon. Member speaking the chance to be heard. There are loud consultations and a lot of movement! Proceed, Mr. Lesrima!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I hope you will add me 30 seconds, if I do not conclude in time. The idea of the water companies is very good, and what I was saying is that we need to support them to take off, especially those in marginalised areas.

3384 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other point I want to make is with regard to the establishment of more dams. A lot of water from rivers goes to waste, and we need to dam them because I believe the cost of managing such dams is less than the cost of managing boreholes. Talking about dams, we require designs that are durable. Numerous Questions have been raised in this House with regard to dams that collapse during floods. I think more effort should be made to ensure that the dams that are created are durable. With regard also to dams, in terms of designs, it would be good to have dams that allow the utilisation of water both by livestock and human beings in pastoralist areas, using separate troughs. We have seen very good examples of good dams under a project by the Netherlands in Kajiado, where a dam is constructed, piping is done to allow for cattle to have water on one side and human beings on the other side. This is unlike in a number of dams that are put up in the countryside, where you have the public and the livestock getting water from the same place. I believe this creates the problem of fast silting. The Ministry is also responsible for irrigation, and it would be a very good idea if they could, together with research organisations such as the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI), also assist communities in designing simple drip irrigation systems, so that, as we have these dams, we can also utilise the water for small shambas . The KARI has the bucket technology, where one uses one bucket of water to irrigate more than 200 cabbages in a year. That would be adequate to feed a family, and have a surplus for other uses. The Ministry is very familiar with massive irrigation schemes. I think it would be good for them to go for simple technology that can assist our people to utilise water and grow food. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other point that I would like to raise is with regard to geological surveys. We do not seem to have enough geologists out there. I know that they are centralised, but they do a good job. But in many cases, the failure rate in geological survey is so high that when we invest the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money to drill water, some of our communities cannot understand why water cannot be found and, yet the geologists had confirmed that there was water in the first place. Sometimes, they ask for a refund of the CDF money that had been invested there. So, that is another area that needs to be looked into by the Ministry. On the regulatory role of the Ministry, there are many other organisations under the Water Act that are responsible for managing water activities, such as the regional authorities which fall under a different Ministry and the Nairobi City Council. Sometimes we really wonder about the rivers that originate from Ngong and Kikuyu, passing through Nairobi. They cause havoc, especially, in the slums located in the Industrial Area. They also carry with them poison to the Athi River hence, posing a danger to the people of Ukambani. Sometimes, I wonder who is really in charge of the Nairobi rivers. Is it Tana and Athi Rivers Development Authority (TARDA), the Nairobi City Council or National Environment Management Authority (NEMA)? Who, for example, controls the big buildings that are coming up right on the river beds within Nairobi? There is room for utilisation and cleaning of water that passes through Nairobi, so that it does not poison people downstream. The water can also be utilised by the people of Nairobi. Mr. Speaker, Sir, although there is now decentralisation of roles and establishment of various bodies which are in charge of water, the Ministry needs to exert itself so that the Ewaso Nyiro River, for example, does not die. Some people are farmers upstream. They utilise so much water to grow food for export; leaving the pastoralists and wildlife downstream with very little water. There is need for the Ministry to exert itself in order to ensure that organisations that are supposed to bring discipline in the utilisation of water in Ewaso Nyiro River, for example, are working together. Towns like Nanyuki sometimes run out of water because there is so much abstraction of water by flower firms. Finally, I hope that the Ministry will look into the problem of flooding in Budalangi by August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3385 paying attention to holding water in the catchment areas rather than dealing with the problem when it has reached Lake Victoria. I believe that water can be diverted to other areas. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very critical Vote. The Ministry of Water and Irrigation, like water itself, is our lifeline. Through the activities of this Ministry, Kenyans have great expectation in their wish and desire to get clean water. I want to congratulate the Minister and his entire staff, because this is a Ministry that in the old days used to be like a Siberia, where the unwanted people were posted. But now it has become the cornerstone of our activities in the operations of the Government and economy of the country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is lamentable that the amount of money that has been allocated to this critical Ministry is hardly sufficient for it to meet the expectations of Kenyans. This is because water is life and everybody everywhere is crying for it. Just like one of my colleagues said yesterday, the nerve centre and lifeline of the Government and people of this country will be security, water, education and health. These are Ministries that really need close attention when the Budget is being formulated. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to talk about three or four things that, I think, in its efforts to improve the services to Kenyans, this Ministry can pay attention to. The first one is the issue of dams. It is known that the construction of dams is quite expensive. Indeed, in the last ten years or perhaps, since Independence, we have not had as many dams constructed in the country as we had during colonial days. This is partly because of emerging environmental issues, lack of adequate land to construct those dams and many other factors. But we also have a lot of dams that were constructed or areas earmarked for construction of dams in the colonial days. I would want to urge the Ministry in its next budget to have a reasonable component of a sum of money that they can use to rehabilitate all the existing dams in this country. In my constituency, I have close to 25 small dams of about three to ten square kilometres that have not been given any attention for the last 40 years. This has resulted to the grabbing of land around the dams and destruction of the catchment areas that feed the dams. Eventually, some of them have been drained away by greedy land speculators. I would want to urge the Ministry to liaise with the Ministry of Local Government, because most of those dams are built on trust land, so that they are protected, rehabilitated and put to good use by wananchi. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second issue that I want to touch on is about Lake Victoria, the Nile Basin and the whole catchment system of Lake Victoria. I know that you come from Dol Dol, I do not know if you have ever visited Lake Victoria. But if you go to Lake Victoria, you will see that the lake has receded in some areas by up to 60 metres. That is very dangerous for such a shallow lake. Lake Victoria is the largest lake in Africa, and the second largest in the world. But it is also the shallowest in Africa. It is, at the very most, nine metres deep at the deepest end, compared to Lake Tanganyika which is up to three or four kilometres deep at the deepest end. When such a shallow lake loses 60 metres, that is very dangerous for our eco-system and environment. That is because of the wanton destruction of vegetation and forests in the catchment areas. All the rivers that flow into Lake Victoria from Mt. Elgon, the Mau Escarpment and Cherengany Hills, have diminished by up to 60 and 70 per cent in the last ten years. That is to the extent that the replenishment of water in the lake is entirely dependant on storm water. That is why my friend, Mr. Wanjala, suffers routinely. People in his constituency expect floods and when they come, they come in torrents and with such ferocious flows that they kill people and break dykes. That is because it is not a controlled flow. That can be done in several ways such as rehabilitating the catchment areas, controlling the filtration inflows into the lake, controlling the water flow by damming the rivers and, above all, evolving better ways of managing the catchment areas of Mt. Elgon and other areas that I counted. 3386 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have heard stories about the Nile Basin Initiative (NBI) and the Nile Treaty that is being re-worked on. I want to urge the Ministry of Water and Irrigation that the execution of the current negotiations of the Nile Treaty should not be, and cannot be an issue between the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and other stakeholders from other countries. It must involve all Kenyans. More than 10 million Kenyans live within the catchment area of the Nile Basin. We are talking about the people living in Kericho, Kisii, the entire Western Province and the entire North Rift. I want to see a situation where, when that Treaty is drafted and accepted by all stakeholders, it should be brought to this House for debate, so that we could look at it critically, enrich it, see whether all the components, interests and requirements that a treaty of that magnitude carries are included, before it is executed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, equally, there was an announcement, with a lot of pomp and funfair, especially in Western Province where they came around saying: "This is the Nile Basin Initiative. We have money. We are going to rehabilitate River Sio." They even came to my constituency and earmarked some places to collect water from some springs and supply it to people. It is now two years and we have not seen it. I want to hear from the Minister whether that was a public relations exercise or it was truly an initiative that was meant to benefit the people that have looked after the inflows of Lake Victoria for all those years. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in that Treaty which we have not seen, we must emphasise that Egypt must play a critical role in the management of the catchment areas of Lake Victoria. The entire flow of the Nile River, that takes 75 per cent of the flow of water into Lake Victoria, comes from our region. Egypt, as the principal beneficiary, should be involved to the extent of managing the water sources, the flows of the river and, above all, managing Lake Victoria so that, as they benefit, they know that, that water comes from somewhere and there are custodians who have looked after that water for all those years. That is the more reason why I said that, that Treaty should not be signed in a boardroom, before it passes through this Parliament, for every hon. Member to look at it and make comments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, many of us are using the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money to drill boreholes everywhere. There is only one impediment. There is a component called survey fees that we get from the Ministry. It is too expensive. I want to urge the Ministry to give that as a service to wananchi . Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I have set aside some money to drill three or four boreholes, the Ministry should be on hand to assist in free hydrological surveys, identify where the water is and the quality of water possibly available underground, so that we can be able to easily supply water to

. Mr. Speaker, Sir, last but not least, I want to urge the Ministry to go beyond the traditional irrigation areas, and set up micro-irrigation schemes in areas where we can even irrigate vegetable gardens from existing dams, by giving us not just the money, but the technical know-how to villagers who can benefit from the available technology on irrigation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to, once again, laud the role and work being done by this Ministry. It is visible. We can all see that they are doing a good job. But they can do even better. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Ministry of Water and Irrigation mainly because of one reason. I recall some time back when there was a typhoid epidemic. Nobody was even sure of the quality of tap water. It was alleged that, in fact, instead of putting chlorine, we were using chalk to treat the water. I want to applaud them because I think the water quality in this country has improved. We know water is life. The very water we drink can actually turn into poison, if we do not take care of it. In that sense, I want to applaud them. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3387 Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also aware that they are trying to address the issue of water shortage. We are a water destitute country. As far as boreholes are being dug all over the place, I want to be assured that there is regulation. We are looking for ground water. But one area that we are not so good at is to manage large waters. When you look at Budalangi Constituency on television, you just imagine what could happen if we harvested all that water. What would happen if we directed that water to the receding Lake Victoria? We want to be assured that we are looking for a technology which can actually manage torrential waters, when there is so much rain. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to touch on the issue of the Indian Ocean, where Kenya has a major border. For the rest of us, it is like Mombasa is very far away. We do not even care about that resource. I was in Mozambique the other day and I saw how well they are actually using their sea line. The water that comes out of the sea actually feeds the rest of the population. That is an area I would like them to go into, with a technology that can take care of that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other issue is where we have little springs all over the place. Again, there are so many that we do not seem to have enough expertise. I would like the Ministry of Water and Irrigation to actually tell us how many personnel it has in this country and what efforts it is making to train more Kenyans in geology and water technology and engineering, so that we can manage that resource properly. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are also aware that many people require irrigation. With global warming, the Continent of Africa is suffering. Areas which used to produce food are not producing food any more. Seasons are not predictable any more and yet, we have seen the world over that there is either too much drought for too long, or too much rain and flooding that is killing people. That is a reality that is with us to stay. I would like to see the Ministry of Water and Irrigation working closely with climate change experts and environmentalists, so that the two could go hand in hand to ensure that we actually have proper water systems. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the cities, we have Kenyans still buying water. Water, as we said, is life. It is a basic resource and yet, many Kenyans in this city walk long distances looking for clean water. It is as if they are in the rural areas. What is the Ministry doing about that situation? We are also aware that record keeping in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is not properly computerised. Consumers are complaining that their records are not being kept properly. Could we have the Ministry actually looking into some of those areas which still require a lot of attention? Mr. Speaker, Sir, when it comes to the issue of global warming and control of rivers, again, I was in Mozambique where I saw them controlling the flow of the water in the Limpompo River. I am aware that this country can actually bring that technology. Much as we applaud them, I know that they have been dealing with crucial issues and trying to bring the Ministry where it should be. But we would like to see more modern technology and engineering in that area, even if it means importing engineers and letting them work with our local engineers to improve our water situation.

I see that the Minister is here and I would like to commend him for taking over what the previous Minister had started in terms of reforming the water sector. I am aware that those reforms are paying dividends but we would like to see closer monitoring and participation by the water consumers. This would make sure that they value water and protect the environment at the same time, and that we are all doing the same thing. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

I think I will give this chance to Mr. Kingi instead of Maj. Sugow. Then I will come to Maj. Sugow next time because yeye ndiye mwenyewe ! 3388 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Asante sana, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili niweze kuzungumza mambo machache kuhusu Hoja hii muhimu sana inayohusu mambo ya maji kwa taifa letu. Nataka kuunga mkono wenzangu ambao wamempongeza Waziri pamoja na maofisa wake kwa kazi yao nzuri ambayo wanaendelea kuifanya katika taifa letu. Miaka michache iliyopita, taabu ya maji ilikuwa kila mahali; hata huko kwetu sehemu za Kilifi na Ganze, wananchi walikuwa na matatizo sana. Katika wakati wa ukame, wananchi walikuwa wakitembea kilomita nyingi wakitafuta maji ambayo kwanza hayakuwa masafi na yalikuwa yakiwapatia shida za ugonjwa mara kwa mara. Tunataka kushukuru Wizara hii kwa sababu imesambaza maji katika sehemu nyingi za taifa hili. Huko kwangu, tulikuwa na sehemu kama zile za Bamba, Vitengeni na Ganze ambapo wananchi walikuwa wakipata shida sana. Wizara ilirekebisha laini ya maji inayotoka sehemu ya Silala kuenda Bamba. Wamejenga tangi za maji na kutoka hapo, wanasambaza maji hata vitongojini. Tunataka kusema kwamba hiyo ni kazi nzuri inayoendelea. Tuna imani kabisa kwamba kama Wizara hii itapatiwa pesa katika wakati ujao, basi, taabu ile imekuwa ikiwakumba Wakenya, bila shaka, itakuwa imemalizika. Wanapopewa fedha zaidi watakuwa na uwezo wa kujenga hata mabwawa makubwa zaidi ya yale tuliyonayo. Pia wataweza kununua vifaa zaidi vya kupima au vya kutafutia maji yale ambayo yako chini ya ardhi ili tuweze kujenga visima vingi zaidi. Tunatarajia kwamba hivi karibuni, ndoto ile tumekuwa nayo ya kwamba kutakuwa na laini ya pili ya Chemichemi ya Mzima itatimia. Kwa sababu tukiwa na laini ya pili ya kutoka Mzima kwenda Mombasa basi matatizo ya maji ambayo hukumba mji wa Mombasa, mara kwa mara, yatapungua. Tunatarajia pia kwamba Wizara itaongeza laini ya pili kutoka sehemu za Malindi na Lango Baya na ipitie Bamburi ifike Mombasa ili watu wa Mombasa waweze kuwa na maji ya kuwatosha. Wakati wanapoongeza laini hizo mbili, basi, watakumbuka kuwasambazia maji zaidi wananchi wanaokaa katika sehemu za barabara hizi au sehemu ambazo laini hizi zitapitia.

Nakubaliana na wenzangu ambao wanasema kwamba Serikali haijafanya utafiti ambao utatuwezesha kuhifadhi maji mengi ambayo yanapotea wakati mvua inaponyesha. Wakati mvua inaponyesha, tunapoteza maji mengi. Maji mengi hupotea kwa sababu hatujatengeneza mabwawa ambayo yanaweza kutumiwa kuteka na kuhifadhi maji hayo ambayo yanayoweza kutumika katika shughuli za kilimo, mifugo na shughuli zingine nyingi. Kuna sehemu moja huko kwetu, Rare, ambayo nina hakika uchunguzi ukifanywa, maji mengi yanayopotea katika bahari yataweza kuzuiliwa hapo ili tuweze kufanya shughuli zinazohusiana na mambo ya kilimo. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, naunga mkono wale wanaosema kwamba Wizara hii imefanya kazi nzuri katika kuboresha mambo ya maji. Maji sasa ni masafi na magonjwa mengi ambayo yamekuwa yakiwasumbua wananchi ambayo husababishwa na maji machafu yamepungua. Tunapongeza Waziri kwa kazi nzuri na kushawishi Wizara iendelee kufanya kazi hiyo nzuri. Tunamatumaini kwamba Serikali itaiongezea Wizara hii fedha ili iendelee kueneza shughuli za maji. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, asante kwa kunipa nafasi hiyo. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3389

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important Vote. I do not agree with the rating which was given by the previous contributor, who said that the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is rated second or third in its performance. I would rate this Ministry as the first in its performance because it works to full capacity. If this Ministry worked to full capacity, we would have many healthy people. Therefore, the Ministry of Health would have been, partly, taken care of. We would also create a lot of employment. Therefore, our security would improve because many people would be employed. If the Ministry worked to full capacity, the Ministry of Education would also do well because we would have healthy children and no drop-outs. We have many drop-outs in my area, when there is food shortage. If it were in my power, I would give this Ministry the billions of shillings we spend during the drought season to buy relief food. Why can we not buy this food in advance by giving this Ministry a lot of money to invest in irrigation? That way, we would not fall back to importing food because of drought. I am convinced that this Ministry should be given more funds. Let me commend the Ministry because we have seen a lot of improvement. We promised our people many years ago, through this Parliament, that every family in Kenya would have running water by the year 2000. That was in 1974 because the year 2000 sounded to be very far away. But as we speak today, although we commend the Ministry because there are many improvements, the water is still out of reach to many people compared to what it was in the 1970s. Therefore, the Ministry has got a lot of work to do for us to be self-sufficient. We need a lot of clean drinking water. My experience has been that wherever you drill a single borehole and distribute the water well, the community changes. The health of the people in that community improves and the children become healthy. Everything, including the dogs in that area become clean! Therefore, we need a lot of clean water, maybe not so clean for the animals. Although we are trying to support this Ministry with our CDF money, I must say that it is quite expensive. We also need the Ministry to support us in our efforts, especially when we drill boreholes. We need the Ministry to support us by piping the water so that we do not have boreholes and yet the women and girls have to walk for miles to fetch water from those boreholes. We must try and take that water to the communities. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we have also got involved in the drilling of water, we have learned even the qualities of pipes. Therefore, I recommend to the Ministry that they should train inspectors so that the work being done, especially the laying of pipes in the rural areas for small boreholes is done properly. We lay these pipes in some places only to find that we used the wrong classification and they burst after a short time, resulting into the whole project coming to an end. Therefore, we need more people to be trained. Not only engineers but artisans and middle cadre people who can help in doing the work, so that where we have done any work, it can remain and be of service to the people. We should not have boreholes serving for a short time and then the water dries up. We need many dams especially in the dry areas whereby, when it rains, the rivers start running but later disappear. If those rivers could be dammed, we could conserve that water. Most waters run into the Indian Ocean. But if there was a way of conserving that water and stopping it from running to the Indian Ocean, I am sure that it would be of a lot of use to us. We do have dams in some areas which were done during the colonial times. Most of them have silted and when they are un-silted - I do not know whether we do not have knowledge or the will power - we do it in such a manner that within a very short time, the silt gets back to the dams. If those dams were done well and extended, we could use that water for animal consumption and for irrigation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the way things are going, the better part of the country is going to depend on irrigation for agriculture. The rain patterns are very erratic and, therefore, we 3390 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 must get ourselves into a system where we are going to irrigate our farms, and for animals to drink. This is not impossible because we have travelled to countries which have worse deserts than our country, and yet, they produce food, even for export. For example, if you go to Israel, they grow anything you can think of. They export oranges, bananas, corn oil and so on. We have a better country than the Middle East countries and the upper part of Africa, but they grow food for themselves and they export it. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of my greatest worries is when we beg for food. Sometimes there is a crisis and we have to import food or beg for it. We ask other countries to feed us. A nation which cannot feed itself cannot claim to be a sovereign state. Food is necessary for citizens and we can only claim to be sovereign if we can feed our people. There is no reason why we cannot do so. We have land, manpower and water. It is only that we do not use it the way we should. Therefore, I propose that a genuine move and decision be made at the highest point where proper funds - not a few millions but billions - can be channelled to irrigation, so that we can stop once and for all, the business of ever having to import food. If China and India who have billions of people can feed them and clothe them, why do we have to import food and import second hand clothes for our own citizens when our country can produce? With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to support the Motion so that the Ministry is given the funds that they are requesting. I would also like to agree with Mrs. Mwendwa that this Ministry is number one, not only in importance but in performance. People in Lamu are very satisfied with the services of this Ministry. The other day, the Permanent Secretary was in Lamu where he laid a pipe to Manda Island which has never had piped water before. The people of Manda Island can now go and open a tap and draw water for domestic use. We are very grateful for that, Mr. Minister. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Lamu Water Company was recently granted Kshs10 million for rehabilitation of the wells and expanding the pumping capacity. We also thank the Minister for that. We are hopeful that if we allocate this Ministry these funds good projects likethese ones will be forthcoming from the Ministry. We are very grateful for the support given by the Ministry to our Lamu Water and Sewerage Company. We are grateful to the Government for coming up with the idea of devolution of water services to the district level. There are some people going around the country promising us that if they are elected, they will bring majimbo . We would like to inform them that the Government of President Kibaki has already given us majimbo type of Government through the water companies, the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), the Local Authorities Transfer Fund (LATF) and other things.

Do not listen to them, just continue!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. So, we are grateful because

is already with us. So, there is no need for some people to promise pies in the sky when we already have a pie on our tables. Lamu West is very satisfied with the provision of water. We have water at Wiwa in Witu Division and Lakwa in Mpeketoni Division. The only problem is in Baragoni where this year we need Kshs1.8 million to put up three dams and that village will be well catered for. Lamu West will no longer complain of lack of water, except the new areas of Wetemere. Also the Lake Kenyatta Water Association is laying the pipes for the young people who are farming. We are very grateful to the Ministry for all the good service. Mr. Temporary deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support and also August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3391 thank the Minister for his co-operation with donors. They are also doing a great job in supplementing the water services in my constituency.

Why are you all standing up and he is still continuing?

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. The next world war will be fought over water.

When is that?

Whenever it comes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the current turmoil in the Middle East is being fought over oil or "black gold." Water has become more expensive than oil in this country. Half a litre of water costs more than one litre of super fuel. So, as the time goes by water is becoming more expensive. As such, the next world war will be fought over water. That is why this Ministry is so important that it is being rated number one. Not in terms of performance, but in terms of its importance which involves life. Water is life. So, the officers at Maji House should take that Ministry very seriously as the number one engine to drive this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, since Arabs are selling us their natural resource which is oil, why do we not have one big water metre across the River Nile, so that we also sell them water?

We can send them water bills every month. We have given them our natural resources for free while they sell theirs to us. Time has come that a country like Egypt cannot dictate to us what we should do with our own natural resources. We are not dictating to them what they should do with their natural resources. I blame the officers at Maji House because Egypt has never stopped us from utilising water in Lake Victoria. What have they done so that these people come and stop us? Nothing! Even at the source, they have done nothing. So, time has come when we should start utilising our water for the benefit of this country and wait for the Egyptians to come and stop us. From there on, we can talk of the treaty. We talk of the treaty and we do not even use that water. So, there is no need for all the hullabaloo about this treaty. The war on this treaty is taking us nowhere. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my own constituency, several years back, we had the Oyugis Water Project Phase 1. Since the 1970s, I have never seen any of the officers even coming there. Since I came to this House, I have sent them several letters informing them that Oyugis Phase II Water Project is long overdue. They have done nothing about this water project. The previous speaker said that there was to be water for everybody by the year 2000. So, if 2000 came and went, should we forget that policy? Can they not have another one even if there will be water for everybody by 2050? What are they doing? Can they tell us and then we will have water for everybody in this country? There must be a policy of having water or they just keep quiet and say God for us all and everybody for himself! There should be a clear defined policy on water. 3392 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 When do they want us to get water? I also do not support this jargon; whether we should have clean, piped and running water. Let us have water even if it muddy water. We will purify it ourselves. Can we have water near our houses? Can we have that water in everybody's house, so that whether it will be piped that can come later? The other day, we passed the vote of the Ministry of Energy. We commended them because they have a policy that they want to supply electricity to every institution. Can the Ministry of Water and Irrigation have a similar policy and start to supply water to every primary and secondary school? A student will feel very comfortable if he drinks water even if he did not have lunch. In fact, he will go back to the classroom. However, there is no water for students to drink. That is why some of them drop out of school because they go back to class on empty stomachs. They feel very hungry. I had a typical example in my constituency just two months ago. Through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), I supplied water to one of the primary schools. The report I got from that school was fantastic. The enrolment went up threefold. Students that used to go for lunch and never come back are now staying in the classrooms. During lunch break, those who cannot afford food just go to drink that cold water. They feel very comfortable, pour some on their heads and feel cool enough and go back to the classrooms. This is the policy that the Ministry of Water and Irrigation should have. They should have water in every institution by a certain period like the Minister of Energy is doing with electricity and that will be helpful. However, I have never seen such a blueprint coming from this Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we should have man-made lakes. I have never seen them in this country. Man-made lakes should be big and not the size of dams. We should graduate from dams into lakes. The army should go into those arid areas and make a huge lake that steamers can even run in, as a means of preserving water. That can be a storage of water. By the way, if you create such a big lake in those semi-arid areas, all of a sudden the areas will become green. This Ministry should create those lakes. Once it does that, we will never have those arid areas any more because the moisture evaporating from those lakes will cool North Eastern Province and those other arid areas. They will grow trees, crops and even use it for irrigation. You mean Kenyans cannot create man-made lakes which are created in India and other countries? We are capable, but we do not have a policy to that effect. It is high time they did a study of creating such lakes which could preserve water. A lot of water is being wasted when storms and heavy rains occur. Water flows into the lakes, Indian Ocean, Sudan and even to Egypt. I was watching a documentary on how our soil is being washed away by this water. Every year, the Egyptians are very happy because good alluvial soil from Kenya is deposited at the estuaries of Damiatta and Rosetta which are entering the Mediterranean Sea. This is soil coming from Kasipul Kabondo and these people are just sitting there. I am glad the officers are here listening to this. They should take notes and preserve that water in those man-made lakes, so that we can use it when time comes. The Ministry should have a master plan for everybody in this country. It should take a data base that we have water. It is very costly, but it does not matter. Give us the cost. Let us know the billions of shillings you need. It should create awareness. Do not wait until people ask. Sometimes you can even create employment by inducing this type of employment. You should do this by going to the people instead of waiting for them to come to us. This is what the Ministry should do. The time has come when this Ministry should change its attitude. They could be having millions of shillings from wananchi if this water was there. These people could pay a little amount of money as water bills. They could get billions of shillings. If they did this, they would not be disturbing the Exchequer for money to do development. Time has come when our Ministries should change from getting money from the Exchequer and instead mint their own money and bring it to the Exchequer, before asking us to give them more money. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3393 With those remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for recognising me. I want to support this Vote and commend the Minister and his officials for what they have been able to do for the country in the water sector. Those of us who have been in this House for a long time know what happened with the Kerendich dams. If the amount of money that was allocated for construction of dams in Baringo District was applied properly, it would have changed that part of the world. However, if you go there today, you will see that, that world looks the same as it was then. So, I want to commend the Minister and his officials for what they have done in terms of sinking boreholes and what they are doing in the area of irrigation. I would like to encourage them to continue travelling on that path and provide water to Kenyans. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think one of the reasons as to why the President appointed somebody from Ukambani to head this Ministry is so that the Minister can turn around dry areas like Ukambani. We must face this problem squarely. For us in the Ministry of Planning and National Development, on the Budget Outlook Paper, we want to give the Ministry of Water and Irrigation more money. We are increasing our revenue. We want to turn the additional revenue into water. So, I want to tell the Minister and his officials that they are doing a commendable job. I will now turn to the engineers in the Ministry, with special attention to the floods issue in Budalang'i. In 1953 and 1961, Alexander Gibbs Engineers carried out studies on the Budalang'i floods. The report is there. In 1964, the Russians carried out a study on the floods in Budalang'i. I hope that the Permanent Secretary and his officers are listening. In 1972, Howard and Humphreys Engineers carried out a study on the Budalang'i floods. In 1978, an Italian firm, Interco Consult Engineers, carried out a study and made a report on the same. Our own Government carried out studies on the floods in Budalang'i in 1980 and 1992. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all these reports, are we saying that in this country, there were no proposals made to address the issue of floods in Budalang'i? Must these engineers wait for us to contribute in this House before some of these proposals can be brought forward to solve the issue of flooding in Budalang'i? I believe that the Minister has competent engineers. He should let them look at those reports. In them, there are proposals and solutions suggested for us to implement. Where I come from, the larger Gusii, we have the problem of gum trees. The gum trees have destroyed the water catchment areas. I know that the matter falls under the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources and the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but I believe that this is an issue which should be addressed. The dense population in that region is threatening, and we need to reverse the issue of planting gum trees in water catchment areas. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of the water projects being implemented in Kisii Municipality, I would like to ask the Permanent Secretary and his officers to particularly look at those in Nyamira, which we had proposed should be extended to Kebirigo Trading Centre. We want water in that centre. There are so many people. My people in that centre need water. If they consider these projects, even we in the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), could try and help in trying to get water to those people. I, really, want to commend this Ministry for doing well in the water resource management. Irrigation and drainage systems, as I have said, are important and are core issues in this country. I support the land reclamation initiative, just as other hon. Members have. It is also particularly important for us to store water to try and help in areas of irrigation and the rest. So, I want to join my colleagues by saying that this is an extremely important Ministry. The manner in which the management of this Ministry is being done will assist this country. As you know, right now, most Permanent Secretaries have gone to the field to collect views from Kenyans 3394 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 in order to get Vision 2030 moving. We want to hear what Kenyans will say, see how we can incorporate this very important resource, water, in achieving a middle-level income country status, have our economy grow further from the current 6.3 per cent to 10 per cent and move on for another 20 years. With those remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I want to start supporting this Vote by commending the Minister. As my colleague from Lamu North said, the Minister may be number one in terms of performance, but the people of Kapsabet are number last. The District Water Engineer in Kapsabet must be disciplined. This is what makes people cry even more for devolution of power. If you want, call it majimboism . I think that is where Kenya will finally head to, because some junior officers out there behave as if they govern the land. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a case in point in Kapsabet, where we allocate funds to projects we have identified. I have the example of Ndalat Gaa Secondary School, to which the CDF has allocated Kshs1 million. The money is in the school's account. We have Kaiboi, near Kaiboi Technical School, to which we have allocated another Kshs1 million, which has been lying in the school's account for nearly a year. Whenever we go to the District Water Engineer for the designs, they tell us: "Pay for fuel." We pay for the fuel. They continue: "Pay for night out allowance for the officers." It does not take a four-wheel drive vehicle more than two hours to reach those two places. So, if they leave Kapsabet in the morning, they can be there by 10.00 a.m. and get back to Kapsabet by 5.00 p.m. latest, but they demand night out allowance. So, I demand that the Minister takes action. Unfortunately, we also have a system where no District Development Committee (DDC) meetings are called. Since this Ministry does not have institutions like the District Education Boards (DEBs), because all the powers have been given to the departmental heads, we cannot meet with these officers. When we call on them, they avoid seeing us. I even went to Kapsabet at one time. He was in but he said that he was not in. So, I decided not to bother. So, we want to see improvement of service delivery by officers in the field, unless they are not being paid using taxpayers' money contained in the Vote we are passing today. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I speak further about my district, I want to speak about Lake Victoria and its surrounding catchment areas. We are saying that the water level in Lake Victoria is falling. In my view, it is the silting and pollution in Lake Victoria which are causing the volume of its water to decrease. That is because we have allowed the surrounding catchment areas to be de-forested by two companies, namely, Pan African Paper Mills Limited and Rai Ply Company. I do not care! We will, one day, kick out the Pan African Paper Mills Limited. I used to say this when I was on the Government side, and I will continue doing so even from the Opposition side, because that land belongs to us, and not to anybody from India. Both companies are owned by Indians. I am not being a racist, but if you go to Pan African Paper Mills today, you will find that most of the money collected is remitted to India, yet they are cutting down all the forests. One may disagree but I am also a scientist. Some people say that exotic species like Cypress and Pine do not help to conserve the environment, which is not true. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, any foliage, provided that it provides forest cover, will conserve the water. Now, if you go down there, you will find that those two companies have cut down all the trees, leaving only the stumps standing. Rain water flows freely, causing a lot of soil erosion. So, all that water and the silt that it carries with it ends up in Lake Victoria. But now, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you go down there and all the water--- They have cut all the trees. They have just left the stumps. All the water just runs off. There is a lot of soil erosion. As hon. Obwocha has August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3395 asked, where are all the studies that have been carried out to control the floods in the Budalangi area? On those floods, if we could build dams in rivers Nzoia, Kipkaren and Yala, we will be able to generate electricity. We will also be able to conserve water. We will be able to protect the people of lower Western Province and Nyanza from continuous flooding. We had, at one time, managed to control the water hyacinth. But we are now letting it to overcome us. It is not a serious issue. You know that scientists have conducted a research and brought in beetles which eat the hyacinth. I do not know what has happened. Maybe, the environment or the content of the water hyacinth has changed and it is no longer suitable for those insects which feed on it. But something must be done. You saw it even on television last week when people were stranded in that lake. They were caught up in the water hyacinth. Something has to be done. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, going back now to my own district, I want to say that this Government and, maybe, the previous one as well--- In my constituency,there is only one Government water project. During the Kenyatta, Moi and this Government era, there has only been one water project called Lelmokwa near Eldoret Airport. That is the only one. I think two or three years ago, it cost Kshs6 million. There is no other project. I have in my area--- I thank God because we have enough rains. We have a good environment. My people try to conserve the environment as much as they can. So, we have many streams flowing from the hills with a lot of water. Even what we have now is gravity water. But there are those colonial days projects--- Like what they used to call the Sywnerton Plant projects. We have Kabiemit Water Project and Lolringet Water Project. Those days, they would use the steel water pipes. But those are now rusted because it was so many years ago. It was over 40 years ago. If we try to do them with CDF, the cost is so huge. So, I am saying: "Please, put some money also in those high rainfall areas." It is the people of those areas that conserve the environment, so that water could be generated. It goes into the lakes. So, let them not only see the water. Let them also use it. As an hon. Member who spoke before said, we should not be dictated to too much. In any case, we should show those who use the waters of the Nile River that they also contribute towards the conservation of the environment where the water comes from. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are boreholes which were dug during the colonial days. I have one in Kapng'ombe area, which was done by a colonial settler who was there. But when he left, the machinery sank into the borehole. The local people cannot extract the machines from the borehole.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the Minister and his Assistant could be kind enough to listen to us--- Unless they do not want us to contribute! I want to say that those boreholes cannot be done, even if we have the CDF money. We do not have the technology to extract it. I would say that it would be cheap, if the Minister could talk to the Kenya Army. That is because they have the equipment and manpower. The CDF would be able to fund their vehicles. They could be able to clean up some of those old boreholes for schools. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to end by saying that I support this Ministry. But we want them to be active up here, as well as down there. Finally, we want the water boards which have been created--- For the North Rift, I think they are situated at Kakamega. I do not know. We do not even know. We have not seen them in Kapsabet. That is why, maybe, even the Ministry officials there are very lax. Please tell the water boards to be active in all the areas that they cover. Otherwise, there is no point of having them there. With those few remarks, I beg to support the Vote. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. 3396 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Vote. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, water is life, as it has been said quite a number of times. I think this Ministry, whatever the amount of money they are asking for--- I do not have the exact figure. I think it is necessary that we grant the same. In future, I think we should be able to add some more funds to this Ministry, so that it can give us piped water. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want the Minister to do a little bit of study. Since we did the water reforms, we need to know whether we are worse off or where we are! Where are we since we did the water reforms? I have my own worries and fears that, unless the water boards are going to be run properly--- It appears like we have created many ministries of water in the process. So, I just want to ask the Minister to find out exactly where we are, and ensure that the water boards are not going to have many members of staff to the detriment of service delivery of water. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the advent of water boards, water charges to Kenyans have increased. In the rural areas, we used to pay Kshs100. We are now struggling with Kshs200 per household. To that extent, water is becoming a bit expensive to the rural folk. I do not know what is happening in other places but, as far as my constituency is concerned, in areas where we used to have piped water--- I can name some of those projects. There was the Ndaragwa Water Project and they were paying Kshs100. Now, they are being told to pay Kshs200. We have other water projects like Lichago- Karogaini which, again, are being asked to pay Kshs200. We have Kilimo Water Project, where they were paying Kshs100 but now, they are paying Kshs200. So, to that extent, I want to say that those charges should not continue to go up. If anything, let them remain at Kshs100 so that, in future, as a Government, we can find ways and means of even providing water for free to some of those poor rural folks. I do not mind the people in towns paying for their water. But the people in the rural areas are finding it very difficult to pay for the water. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you might find in a certain village that only a few people are able to turn on their water taps. I do not know why this is the case. Maybe, my people are not properly endowed. We do not have tea. We do not have coffee. Maybe, that is the problem. But, I think that I am delivering the point. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, moving away from that, I want the Ministry to encourage piped water that can flow through gravity. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with regard to the issue of maintenance, generators, water pipes and so on, I think they are becoming very expensive. I say this because, in my constituency, for example, we draw water from the fringes of River Olbolosat, which is down there. We pump the water uphill from the fringes of River Olbolosat and then distribute it by gravity to the rest of the area. That in itself is very expensive. So, I would wish that we be facilitated to draw water from the Kirima Water Project in my constituency. If it can be given more funds, it can serve nearly the whole of my constituency through gravity. The water is from the Aberdares. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, I would like to see the Ministry take a bit of initiative to also assist in protecting catchment areas. I know that is being done by the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources because that is part of their mandate. However, this Ministry should be able to do some work in that direction. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, generally, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation has done well. We can see quite a number of works here and there. Indeed, that is a sign that the Kibaki Government has really revolutionised the water sector in this country. However, there are still other areas that we really need to look at. We should encourage the question of tapping water from the rooftops. If I asked the Minister and the Ministry at large to tell me how many Kenyans are August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3397 benefiting from piped water in this country, I am sure they will tell me they are not more than 10 per cent. So, where do the other Kenyans get their water? They get their water either through boreholes which have been dug manually, or tapping it from the roof, or drawing it from the river. I think we are still far from achieving our goal of supplying piped water to our people. We need to give this Ministry more money so that we can get piped water to all corners of this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, even in the Ministry of Local Government, when people draw plans for their houses, we encourage them to show that they are able to collect water from the rooftops so that such water can be used in the water closets and other places. The water from the pipes can be used in the kitchen, for livestock and other uses. I would like to encourage the Minister and his team to continue doing the good work they are doing. At the same time, we would like to encourage Kenyans to have small dams in their own farms. Unless we do that, we shall not be able to use the water to irrigate our farms. The few technical staff in the field should encourage farmers to have small dams. Other speakers have talked about man-made lakes. I want to be more practical and say that we want each household to have a small dam in order to preserve water, particularly the run-off. That way, there will always be some water, somehow, for livestock and for irrigating the kitchen gardens. So, it is necessary. If we agree that, perhaps, only 10 per cent of our population gets clean piped water, then we must now go to where the people are and try to improve on what they are already using. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of safety or hygienic conditions of the water that our people take is something that we must address. Whether somebody gets water from a man- made borehole--- Sometimes our people get water from dams. A good example is where I come from. The issue of advising people how that water is going to be safe is very important. We can tell Kenyans that they must drink water which is boiled. That is very important. Even before we are able to treat the water, we should drink water which has been boiled so that we do not contract water borne diseases. However, the Ministry can lend a hand in that direction so that our people do not suffer from any water borne diseases. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is also in charge of provision of sewerage plants. We have a lot of our towns that require these services. In the Ministry of Local Government, we know that since the advent of the water reforms, that particular sector is pulling between the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and the Ministry of Local Government. At the end of the day, we do not know who is doing what. Because of that confusion, I think we should sit down, that is, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and the Ministry of Local Government so that we agree. With regard to the water companies that have been formed, who is really in charge? Fair enough, local authorities are shareholders and the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is also represented. I think there is some overlap. It was not envisaged in the Water Management Act of 2000. The two Ministries should sit down together and see how they can actually sort out that overlap. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Vote. I would also like to wish the Minister and his team all the best.

Your time is up, Mr. Muchiri! Hon. Members, I want to remind those who want to contribute to this Motion that they should be mindful about our Standing Orders with regard to repetition. Hon. Members should check whether the materials they are using have already been used on the Floor or not. This is because you could be repeating yourselves. We want to hear knew arguments being advanced. What I am hearing now is repetition of materials which have already been used on the Floor. So, if you know that you are going to repeat what other people have said, take note that I will stop you! 3398 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me time to contribute to this very important Motion. Right from the outset, I would like to commend the Minister and his staff for doing a very good job except that they have not reached Gusiiland. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the work they have done in some parts of Central, Eastern and Nyanza provinces is commendable. I wish the Minister and his staff could extend that service and walk to Gusiiland. The reason why I am saying so is that people in Kenya assume that the Abagusii have clean water and that there is plenty of water in Gusiiland. This is because a substantial amount of water that fills Lake Victoria comes from Gusiiland. Therefore, they assume that we have clean and portable water. The same thing applies in Kipsigisland, which is covered by the Lake Victoria Water Services Board. This place is also considered to have so much water that the Ministry of Water and Irrigation does not want to undertake water projects in those areas. So, I am speaking for the people of Gusiiland and Kipsigisland. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hasten to thank the Minister because he recently sent some engineers to our district. They identified some 15 projects in my constituency that needed to be undertaken so that we can provide clean water to those people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, where I come from there are streams all over. However, if you drink the water from the streams, you are just drinking disease. There is dysentery and cholera. I am urging the Ministry to extend that service to that area. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, imagine Kisiiland is full of hills and valleys! Our streams are down the valleys. Imagine a pregnant woman--- That is why I was opposing giving 50 seats to women in this Parliament. They never talk about the rural women. Women who are seven, eight or nine months pregnant carry the luggage of a baby in their tummies yet they go down the hill and come up with a pot full of water. Just imagine what that woman goes through! That woman can be relieved from that kind of load by pumping water to the top of the hill and letting it run to homes by gravity. This can be done very cheaply. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have done an experiment in one of the points in my constituency. We have constructed a water tank on top of a hill, the water has now been channelled to homes using the force of gravity. This was done very cheaply at a cost of between Kshs6 million to Kshs7 million. So, if the Minister could implement the recommendations of surveyors he sent to my constituency for these 15 projects--- to mention the projects so that if they had forgotten them they can pick the names. The projects are: Nyamukomba Water Project, Nyakoora Water Project, Isecha Water Project, Nyabinyinyi Water Project, Sikonge Water Project, Nyamwange Water Project, Nyakobaria Water Project, Nyatieko Water Project, Nyakitari Water Project, Irianyi Water Project, Sombogo Water Project, Kiamuaki Water Project, Kiomongi Water Project, Geturi Water Project and Kiamugore Water Project. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if they were to undertake these 15 projects, it would only cost them Kshs90 million. However, that action would relieve more than 100,000 pregnant women from carrying the load of water from the streams up the hill where we build our homes. You know we are smarter than the people of Budalang'i. We build our homes at the top of the hills, so that when rain falls, we are not affected by floods. That is why you have never heard of flooding in Gusiiland.

There are no hills in Budalang'i!

Oh, there are no hills there?

Order, Mr. Angwenyi!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Minister implement these projects in the next one or two months? These projects only cost Kshs90 billion, but will relieve 100,000 women. These are 100,000 women who are creating human resource for this country. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3399 When they give birth to children, they increase our human resource. In the future, this country will depend on the human resource. Besides that, people will get clean water. They will not suffer illnesses. In that way, we will reduce the cost of health care. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we do that we will also be releasing these women to go and till their coffee and tea shambas . This will enable this country earn foreign exchange which we need in order to import equipment for water projects elsewhere. You can see the socio- economic entanglement in that arrangement. I hope that when the Minister stands to respond, he will agree with me that there is need for urgent implementation of these projects. Finally, we would like to see the Minister put down his stamp on these projects. I have been to areas where people suffer. We still sympathise with them. However, let the Minister show his stamp on these people's work. Let him work with the engineers in the districts. For example, Kisii Central District, let him ask the engineers: "What projects have you undertaken since you were posted to Kisii Central District?". The same should be done for Nyaribari Chache, Kitutu Chache, Nyaribari Masaba and Bonchari constituencies. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Bonchari Constituency, I have seen people take water that collects in a pond after rainfall. Is it despicable for that to happen in modern Kenya? These are people who are hard workers and produce for this country. I sometimes wonder whether what we need more are roads or water. I could say for sure that in Kisiiland we need clean water. That is where we should move to. I am sure the Minister, if determined to assist the area, can do it very cheaply. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to contribute to this Vote for my Ministry by highlighting a few issues. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you know, water is life. I hope I will not bore you by giving a short story about the bushmen of Kalahari to illustrate this fact. As we all know, there is scarcity of water there. In order to get water, the bushmen normally look around for apes or monkeys. The monkeys keep their water reservoirs secretly somewhere in the caves in the desert. They always make sure that the bushmen do not see them when they go to the water point. What the bushmen normally do is to trap one of the monkeys, tie it down for two days in scorching sun of the Kalahari Desert. On the third day, the monkey is released. The bushmen will then follow it as it runs away. The secret will no longer be there for the monkey any more because it is a question of life and death. Therefore, it rushes very fast to the nearest cave or secret point where there is water. This way, the bushman will also get water. That is how important water is. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government has continuously increased the allocation of funds to this Ministry from Kshs2 billion in 2002/2003 to Kshs15 billion today. However, that is just about 25 per cent of needs of this Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I concur with hon. Members who gave emphasis to the importance of this Ministry. I believe that the priority in allocation of funds to important sector Ministry should be given to this Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no health without water. There is no education without water. There is no security without water! Today many conflicts, particulary in marginal areas with water scarcity, are over water. Therefore, availability of water has serious implications on security. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is one issue I really want to emphasise. As a Ministry, in our quest to implement various projects, land has become a very important factor in carrying our work. Today, there are certain areas in this country, for example, if you want to carry out a sewerage programme or a water supply project anywhere along the Tana River; Garissa, Ijara or any of the districts that border Tana River and if it is donor-funded, land ownership is a critical 3400 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 aspect. Today, if you want to carry out a project in Garissa, like we are doing now, land ownership is supposed to be discussed in Tana River District. The local authority has to provide ownership, title document or approval for that particular project taking place in Garissa. That is a very serious anomaly. The Commission that was set up sometimes back by the Government recommended the importance of putting natural features as border points or border lines between various districts in this country. However, the boundary between Garissa and Tana River--- The larger Garissa, including what was formerly part of Garissa such as Fafi and Ijara--- All those districts have their boundaries somewhere in the space, three miles from the river. Therefore, if you want to carry out any project that would need the verification of ownership of land, one has to get authority from Tana River District. That is a very serious anomaly. It is one that could, in future, lead to conflicts. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to urge hon. Members, by the way they are supporting this particular Motion, to continue supporting that sector. It is a sector that can actually contribute to the development of this country. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

As I said earlier, I do not want to stop anybody because of repetition. I know that hon. Members still want to contribute. I hope that they have many issues to raise. So, if you can shorten your speech, the better.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me to repeat just one sentence, that water is life.

That is really important. It underlies what I am going to say. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was in the House in 1998, and I am still here now. The issue of water causing havoc in Budalangi was articulated in this House very ably by the late Mr. Okondo, followed by Mr. Osogo. Now, Mr. Wanjala is talking about water. I also think that his re-election to this House will revolve around water. I do concur with my colleague, the Minister for Planning and National Development that, surely, we have intelligent people in this country. We have good engineers in this country; people who love their profession. Surely, they can see, over the years, what reports have been there; what hon. Members have been saying and, actually, come out with a solution that will solve all those problems. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying that because in Kwanza, water has invaded our houses and people have moved away, just like they are doing in Budalangi. There, the problem is from Mt. Elgon, with Sabwani River passing through my constituency. In the old days of the mzungu occupation of Trans Nzoia, that area of Namanjalala, Zeya and Amuka was a wetland. Therefore, there was no occupation in those areas. I think in areas such as mine, we could look at it again and say that we can move people out of those wetlands. That is one way of solving the problem. The mzungu solved it by actually making sure that the people did not cultivate in the wetlands. I think we can have that as part of our policy that, in wetlands, we do not occupy those areas. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am now looking for food to feed my people. I am looking for blankets and mosquito nets because of that very problem. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also speak about harvesting of water. Of course, too much water kills us. Also, we die from very little water. We should have a policy of looking after existing dams. In my district, we have many dams that were constructed by the

farmers. Now, when you move around Trans Nzoia District, the dams that are remaining are less than 10 per cent of the original number. That is because the equipment that was used in those dams has not been looked after. They have silted and nobody has done anything about it. So, I am asking the Ministry, as much as we want to conserve water, we must have a plan of August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3401 maintaining dams which the Government has used money to build. We should also build more dams. By so doing, we shall have an opportunity to increase food production. Irrigation, as you know, can be life-saving in terms of food productions. Quite a number of times in this country, we have cried out loud for people to come and assist us with feeding Kenyans. There is no need for us to look for food from outside, if we have our plans in place. With irrigation, we can produce food throughout the year. Indeed, some people are already doing so. So, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am appealing for more dams to be constructed. The ones that have been constructed should be looked after by the Ministry. We should also be able to drain certain areas, such as my area. If we put in proper drains, we will make sure that we direct the water where we want it to go. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to address the issue of water hyacinth. With the new technology, we should be able to deal with that menace of the water hyacinth that is now causing havoc in Lake Victoria and other places. With the presence of the water hyacinth, farmers, especially fishermen, are finding it very difficult to fish. The environment around Lake Victoria is something that we have to deal with. Therefore, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am appealing that, apart from the usual things that the Ministry has been doing, we should now live in the technological era. We should look at new technologies of harvesting water so that, during the dry season, our people do not die of hunger. I also want to propose that this Ministry, including my Ministry--- I do not think people have realized that science and technology cuts across many of these Ministries. So, if we can give enough money to the Ministry of Science and Technology and Ministry of Water and Irrigation, we will be addressing some of these issues once and for all. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Yes! It is now time for the Mover to respond. It is 5.00 o'clock! The Minister has consulted me. He is giving three minutes each to Mr. ole Metito, Mr. Rai and Mr. Arunga. Three minutes each.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Mr. Wamunyinyi! Please sit down!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just going to talk about one river in my constituency which is called Noolturesh River. This is the only permanent source of water in my constituency from which the Noolturesh pipeline diverted water, causing a lot of water shortage in that constituency. I would like to tell the Ministry that what was done at the source in 1990 was planned for a population which is now ten times more than what it was at that time. So, Loitokitok has a shortage of water and what we require at the source of the river, is a modern and big pump to pump water to town. We also require a water reservoir of about 500 cubic metres. Down the river where it used to supply water to 50 per of the constituency, we need the lining of those furrows where irrigation is taking place. The furrows should be cemented, so that we can minimise water loss and make efficient use of it and then we will have minimised the conflict between people and animals caused by the shortage of water. Thank you; I beg to support and allow me to say it is true that the Ministry has done very well.

Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nashukuru kupata nafasi hii, na namshukuru Waziri kwa kunipatia hizi dakika chache ili nipate kutoa sauti yangu. 3402 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Sehemu ninayotoka ni kame, na ninachomwomba Waziri tu ni kwamba apate wasaa wa kuzuru Kinango ajionee, kwa sababu hata nikizungumza hapa, pengine hatutapata suluhisho la kudumu. Hivi sasa mji wa Kinango unapata maji katika siku kumi kati ya siku 30; kwa siku 20 hatuna maji, na tuna hospitali kuu katika mji huo. Naomba kutafutwe njia mwafaka ya kujua mji wa Kinango utapata maji kwa njia gani. Pili, naishukuru Wizara kwa sababu imejaribu kutafuta mikakati ya kuwasaidia wale watu ambao hawajiwezi kwa kuwachimbia dam katika sehemu yangu. Lakini nataka nimwaambie Waziri kuhusu Mwakunde Dam . Mwanakandarasi alipewa kazi, hakuimaliza na amevichukua vifaa. Sasa hatujui hatima ya dam ile ni nini. Pili, mwandakandarasi alipewa kazi ya Gede Dam, hakuimaliza na hakuna chochote kinachoendelea. Wananchi hawajui ni kitu gani kinachoendelea katika ile sehemu. Twaomba tu Wizara ipate kuchunguza na kujua ikiwa mwanakandarasi huyo ana vifaa na uwezo wa kufanya ile kazi ama hawezi. Mwisho, tegemeo letu katika mji wa Kinango ni Nyalani Dam, na tumekuwa tukiona katika magazeti kwamba ingeshughulikiwa. Kama Serikali ingeweza kutenga pesa na kujaribu kuipanua Nyalani Dam, mifugo wetu wangeweza kusitirika na kutoka katika ile shida inayowakumba. Namshukuru Waziri na Katibu Mkuu katika Wizara kwa sababu mambo fulani fulani yameanza kuwa na mabadiliko. Lakini ninachoomba ni kwamba sehemu hizi zishughulikiwe. Nikimalizia, ni kwamba Waziri atafute nafasi yeye mwenyewe aizuru sehemu yangu ili nikizungumza wananchi wawe wanamjua muhusika na kazi inayokusudiwa kufanyika. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa hayo machache, naunga mkono na Mungu awape umri.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank the Minister for giving me the three minutes to make a point or two. I am very happy to note that out of the Kshs832 million that the Ministry has decided to give to the rural areas, I think my district of Butere is going to benefit to the tune of about Kshs20 million. This is the first time that this has happened in a long time. As I appreciate the allocation we have received, I have a very big concern about the operations of these so-called "boards". In my area, I think there is what is called Lake Victoria North something, and from the time when this board was formed, there is only one borehole which, in my view, was allocated Kshs3.7 million. This is a borehole which is only 70 metres deep, and they extended a pipeline by two kilometres to some market. When I asked some questions on how the costing was done, nothing happened. These people underground. I do not know of a single project, other than that one, that has been undertaken in my constituency. What I am saying is that it is important that when these boards are going round they involve the hon. Members, because we, in our own right, have the capacity to mobilise the people, so that, at least, we know what is going on. Secondly, we also allocate some money from our Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) kities towards this end. It is important that we know what programmes, if any, the boards have, so that we do not have duplication. I find it difficult to believe that from the time the boards were formed, there is only one project which, in my view, should not have cost more than Kshs1 million. They were allocated Kshs3.7 million, and God knows that I asked what had happened to that money, and nobody has given me an answer up to this time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kshs20 million has been allocated to our district. These people have a tendency of inflating the cost of this thing. Instead of going to procure the equipment from the source, or the manufacturers, they decide to go and procure them from third parties, to the extent that 40 per cent of whatever money is allocated is spent, in my view, very unnecessarily. I want to give notice, for example, that for the money that has been allocated to the district, I am going to follow it up, particularly the procurement, because I am not satisfied with the way it is done because a lot of money is wasted. I want to appreciate the efforts and the reforms the Minister has undertaken, and the professional manner in which he has allocated the money. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3403 The only observation that I make is that he is spending about Kshs4 billion in urban areas and about only Kshs800 million in rural areas, yet 80 per cent of our people live in the rural areas and only a small fraction lives in urban areas. That allocation, in my view, is not proportionate. Apart from that, I thank the Minister for the work he has done, together with his staff, particularly at the Ministry's Headquarters. He has very able and hard working staff. They allocate money, but the problem is at the uptake areas. They have a duty not just to allocate this money, but to follow it up to make sure that it is properly used. I hope I will not be misunderstood to be interfering when I follow up to make sure that this Kshs20 million is not paper allocation, but is money that is going to be used on the ground. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to, first and foremost, take this opportunity to thank hon. Members who have found it fit to make their contribution to this important Vote of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation.

I have appreciated the comments which have been made by several hon. Members, and I want to assure those who have raised concerns, and those who have commended the Ministry, that we greatly appreciate. I will try to respond to some of the issues, but I want to assure hon. Members that I came with the entire team from my Ministry, led by the Permanent Secretary, who have been keenly listening here since we started debate. I want to thank the team, because they have been taking notes and I am sure that some of the issues which I may not respond to now will be responded to out there in the field. For any concern that any hon. Member has about my Ministry, we have an open-door policy. Anybody can come and discuss it with my officers at the headquarters, boards, districts and even in the divisional headquarters, where you find officers who work in the Ministry. One more thing I want to commend hon. Members for is the way they have utilised their CDF on the water sector. Starting with my own CDF, I have spent more than 40 per cent of the budget I get on the water sector. I have also seen that in other constituencies hon. Members have put a lot of their money into the water sector and I want to compliment them. I also want to compliment hon. Members for the interest they have shown in following up monies allocated by this House, especially to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. I have seen many hon. Members coming to the Ministry to either confirm, complain or compliment the way we utilise these funds. I would want to appeal to all hon. Members to take interest, not only in the money allocated to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but also the money allocated to all the Ministries. This is because we have people who implement these programmes on the ground. Those of us at the headquarters may not notice some of the things. It would be good if hon. Members visited some of these projects, so that they can draw our attention to areas where they think we are not doing well. We will be helpful not only to the hon. Members, but to the people who are supposed to benefit; that is, the taxpayers who are supposed to get the returns for their money. After all, the money that we are asking for here comes from the taxpayers. Therefore, it must also be properly utilised. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members have commented on the reforms that we are undertaking in the Ministry. I also want to appreciate the support that they have given the reform process. The reform process started many years even before I moved to the Ministry. I 3404 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 would want to commend the previous holder of my portfolio; hon. Karua, and also the members of staff in the Ministry, for working together to ensure that the reforms take root. Any change always faces resistance. We have faced a lot of resistance and challenges. I want to commend those who have been working with us to undertake these reforms. Hon. Muchiri asked whether we can say whether we are doing well on reforms or not. I would want to say that we are doing very well on the reforms. We are happy with the reforms and results that we are getting from them; even though any new thing has its own teething problems. We have been addressing the teething problems as we go along. I would want to appeal to hon. Members to support the process. They should point out where they think that we are not doing well. That is why I have ensured that all the Chief Executive Officers of the boards in various regions are in this House to hear the concerns of hon. Members, so that they can see how they can also reform alongside the reforms which are being undertaken. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Ndambuki talked about disparities in terms of allocation of resources. He said that for the last four years, we have been unfair to some areas. He cited some areas like Nyeri, Kisumu and others. There are reasons for each kind of allocation that we give to different areas. Some of them have to do with the Ministry's policy. For example, we had a policy to ensure that we have affirmative action on Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) which have been lagging behind in terms of water. That is why we have allocated Kshs1.1 billion to address the issue of the distance people in ASALs travel to get water for their animals. That is also why some regions in this country have been getting more boreholes and dams than others. That has to do with the Ministry's policy to ensure that those areas which have been having water problems are addressed. There are also issues to do with the donor interests. Some donors come on board and say that they want to undertake some projects in a particular area, because of their own interests. As a Government, we have to give 10 per cent of our input to such projects. A good example is in Kisumu. An hon. Member asked why we spent Kshs1.5 billion in Kisumu last year. That is a project that we are doing with AFD. We are also doing a similar project with the Japanese Government in Nyeri, which is almost complete. These are donor-funded projects. That is why they have been allocated huge sums of money. We are also moving to other towns, especially major towns so that we can provide them with adequate water. For example, Wajir Town now has adequate water. That is why there are disparities in terms of the allocations. We have also given our boards autonomy to look at how they can work with donors and other development partners and, because some of them are moving faster than others, you will find those kind of disparities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the amount of money that we want to spend this financial year is about Kshs15 billion. This is an increment from the allocation by the previous administration, which was Kshs2.3 billion in the 2002/2003 Financial Year. That is a substantial increment, but it is not adequate. As the Minister in charge, I would want us to spend more than that. I would be happy if we spent more than Kshs60 billion yearly, to achieve some of the objectives that we have in the Ministry. However, we cannot achieve this because of financial constraints. We are talking to the Treasury to see how we can get more funding. I am happy that the hon. Members of this House have supported this initiative. Like I said, we have just concluded the formulation of the Irrigation Policy. We would like to do irrigation on about 20,000 hectares yearly. Of course, we would like to make our contribution in order to achieve Vision 2030 and that would require not less than Kshs30 billion yearly. Therefore, we need the Ministry to be allocated more money by this House. I am happy that the hon. Members have raised this issue and the Treasury has heard this. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a concern was raised by the Member of Parliament for Siakago Constituency, hon. Muturi, who happens to be very keen on a particular project. I want to agree entirely with him. That programme has its own problem. When I joined the Ministry, that programme was not running. It involves not only the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but the August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3405 Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services and Ministry of Agriculture. It has so many components. I think, in terms of the design of the project, something went wrong. There was too much emphasis on capacity building, community mobilisation and so on. I have held meetings with the officers concerned and my team, and we are trying to see how we can implement that programme faster in terms of getting real and tangible programmes in place. I want to admit that it is one of the programmes in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation which I, personally, find that it was not properly designed. However, I want to assure the House that we are re-looking at it, so that we make it beneficial. In terms of cases of corruption, I want to assure this House that we will take action. If there are people who can sit under a tree and say that there was a meeting where it was agreed to train 300 farmers or villagers, but it never took place, we want that information. That is corruption and we will take action. We cannot allow it in the Ministry. With regard to the sentiments raised by hon. Sambu, where we have officers who have their personal problems, we appeal to hon. Members to give us their names, because we cannot let down the Ministry. If one officer in the field is not doing his or her best, let us have that information and we will deal with such cases. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the need to protect catchment areas was key to this debate. My officers and I have heard the sentiments of the hon. Members. I am happy that even the Minister for Environment and Natural Resources and Minister for Lands have been listening to the debate. That is one area where we have a big challenge. As a nation, we must address the issue of water catchment areas altogether. It cannot be left to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation or Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources neither the villagers alone. We must work as a team. I agree with Prof. Maathai's suggestion of the need for different Ministries to work together. That is already there. We want to see more results on this. She also suggested that we should set time for planting trees. That is a very good suggestion. We will look at it. I will liaise with my colleague, the Minister for Environment and Natural Resources, whom we have worked together before at the Treasury, so that we can ensure that the Water Resource Management Authority, National Environment Management Authority and other institutions in our Ministries work together to see how we can protect our catchment areas. It was only yesterday that we launched the strategy for the Water Resource Management Authority. We want to see more participation by all the stakeholders, so that we can protect our catchment areas. I want to appeal to hon. Members and politicians out there to be responsible. They should not protect fellows who are cutting down trees or persons who are cultivating up to the rivers. When we push them out, they want to get some political protection. We will not listen to that. I want hon. Members to also agree with me on that. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members have raised concerns about the issue of rain-harvesting. That is one area where we are trying as a Ministry. We want to build more pans and dams. In this financial year, for example, I am proposing to construct 180 new boreholes. Last year, we constructed 227 boreholes. In terms of the dams, last year, we constructed 308 dams. We are going to construct 189 dams this year for water harvesting. We are also having a programme where we are doing roof catchment. We have, through some water boards, given tanks to schools and other institutions, to develop that culture. I want to appeal to hon. Members to also come in, in terms of educating our people out there, so that we can have the culture of water harvesting. It is lacking among our people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to commend Mr. Muchiri when he talked about local authorities. In fact, I have written to the Minister for Local Government. We are consulting on how we can make it mandatory that, before plans for construction of houses in urban and rural areas are approved, they must have a component for water harvesting. You must show in your drawing that you will do a tank, so that we can also, together, deal with the issue of water harvesting. It is a major issue. In the last financial year, we were able to add, the saving of water, 3406 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 about 14 million cubic metres of water. That will go a long way. But I also want to appeal to hon. Members in terms of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) and other funds like the Local Authorities Transfer Fund (LATF). They should also look at how we can address the issue of water harvesting. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, several hon. Members raised the issue of sewerage systems. They said that we are under-funding the same. Regarding the money that you are seeing in the books - about Kshs122 million - there is another component from donor support of about Kshs500 million. There is a substantial amount in that area. But that is not adequate because our towns are growing. That is a big challenge. We must have water and sewerage systems which are working. We are also in the process of implementing the board and say that they want to undertake some projects in a particular area, because of their own interests. As a Government, we have to give 10 per cent of our input to such projects. A good example is in Kisumu. An hon. Member asked why we spent Kshs1.5 billion in Kisumu last year. That is a project that we are doing with AFD. We are also doing a similar project with the Japanese Government in Nyeri, which is almost complete. These are donor-funded projects. That is why they have been allocated huge sums of money. We are also moving to other towns, especially major towns so that we can provide them with adequate water. For example, Wajir Town now has adequate water. That is why there are disparities in terms of the allocations. We have also given our boards autonomy to look at how they can work with donors and other development partners and, because some of them are moving faster than others, you will find those kind of disparities. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the amount of money that we want to spend this financial year is about Kshs15 billion. This is an increment from the allocation by the previous administration, which was Kshs2.3 billion in the 2002/2003 Financial Year. That is a substantial increment, but it is not adequate. As the Minister in charge, I would want us to spend more than that. I would be happy if we spent more than Kshs60 billion yearly, to achieve some of the objectives that we have in the Ministry. However, we cannot achieve this because of financial constraints. We are talking to the Treasury to see how we can get more funding. I am happy that the hon. Members of this House have supported this initiative. Like I said, we have just concluded the formulation of the Irrigation Policy. We would like to do irrigation on about 20,000 hectares yearly. Of course, we would like to make our contribution in order to achieve Vision 2030 and that would require not less than Kshs30 billion yearly. Therefore, we need the Ministry to be allocated more money by this House. I am happy that the hon. Members have raised this issue and the Treasury has heard this. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a concern was raised by the Member of Parliament for Siakago Constituency, hon. Muturi, who happens to be very keen on a particular project. I want to agree entirely with him. That programme has its own problem. When I joined the Ministry, that programme was not running. It involves not only the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, Ministry of Gender, Sports, Culture and Social Services and Ministry of Agriculture. It has so many components. I think, in terms of the design of the project, something went wrong. There was too much emphasis on capacity building, community mobilisation and so on. I have held meetings with the officers concerned and my team, and we are trying to see how we can implement that programme faster in terms of getting real and tangible programmes in place. I want to admit that it is one of the programmes in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation which I, personally, find that it was not properly designed. However, I want to assure the House that we are re-looking at it, so that we make it beneficial. In terms of cases of corruption, I want to assure this House that we will take action. If there are people who can sit under a tree and say that there was a meeting where it was agreed to train 300 farmers or villagers, but it never took place, we want that information. That is corruption and we will take action. We cannot allow it in the Ministry. August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3407 With regard to the sentiments raised by hon. Sambu, where we have officers who have their personal problems, we appeal to hon. Members to give us their names, because we cannot let down the Ministry. If one officer in the field is not doing his or her best, let us have that information and we will deal with such cases. same in terms of designs. Some of them will take time. But I want to assure this House that we are moving towards ensuring that every urban centre has a sewer system which works. That way, sanitation will be looked after in every area. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members raised the issue of water tariffs. As far as the Ministry is concerned, we have a system. No board or water company can come up and fix water tariffs or prices without consultations. The last time we reviewed that was in 1999. I have not yet issued any gazette notices of any new tariffs. But where there are companies which are exploiting the consumers, let us know. The regulator is there to look at those issues. I know there are about three hon. Members who have talked about that issue. I will go and check on what is happening in that area. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of District Officers in relation to CDF and other funds like the LATF--- Sometime this year, there was a Question that came to this House about the same. We are also finding it very difficult, as a Ministry, in terms of what we are expected to do within our budget--- That is in terms of design and planning. We have a budget that is very limited. But we get other requests from hon. Members, authorities and people coming up with programmes which need to be funded and designed. I appeal to hon. Members for understanding between us and the officers on the ground. But I will not allow any officer to go out of his or her way to charge any professional fees for any design that he or she is doing. But if he or she is asking for a paper or something which he or she does not have to design or draw whatever you want him or her to draw, you can provide that service. If he or she wants to be moved from point one to two or point "A" to "B", and he or she does not have the fuel, you can fuel the car. But he or she does not require to be paid anything. But if he or she sleeps out there and he does not have an allocation from the Ministry, I want to appeal to hon. Members to look at it at that level. They should not be charging anything. I will not allow that. I have said that before. If we have those kind of officers who are charging, let me know so that I can take action. That way, we can also work together. We feel that we are complementing what you are doing. So, designing a programme for you is just encouraging you to do it, so that we get more water for our people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Wetangula and several other hon. Members talked about Lake Victoria. Mr. Ahenda talked about the treaty. He also talked about the war. I want to assure the hon. Member that the war will not originate from that area. That is because, as the riparian countries in the region, the Ministers for Water in the ten countries within the Lake Victoria catchment area and basin have been working together for the last ten years. It is only last month when we concluded the treaty. There is only one aspect that has to be sorted out by the Heads of States. It is before them. Once that is sorted out, the treaty will be brought to this House. You can have a look at it and debate on it. That is where we are. Nobody will be allowed to over- exploit others. We are setting up a commission in Kisumu to look at the issue of Lake Victoria. It will ensure that there is no over-exploitation by any State. The catchment areas will also be protected. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, programmes that cut across the National Irrigation Board (NIB) are there. Mr. Wanjala, just last week, undertook to visit some of those programmes in Nangurai, where we were told that they are not working. I am sure we will get a report very soon. We also have trans-boundary programmes like the Mara. Those programmes are real and, soon, they will bear fruits. We will get water to those people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of reforms, some hon. Members think there is bureaucracy. I want to appeal to hon. Members--- We organised several seminars for hon. 3408 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Members to understand the reforms. Unfortunately, very few hon. Members turned up. Next time, when we organise another workshop, I would like to see many hon. Members attending. That way, we can be together in this. There is need for every stakeholder to understand where we are in terms of reforms. We do not want to operate in isolation. We would rather be together. That is why I am saying that, when you get those invitations, find time to come. You will know where to go when you need that money. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this Budget, we are proposing that about Kshs4 billion will go to the boards. Some of the hon. Members do not even know where their boards are. Those boards are not constituted on political grounds. They are not constituted in terms of our regional boundaries like provincial administration boundaries. Water does not follow the provincial administration boundaries, neither does it follow tribal arrangements. It follows its natural way. That is why you find some people are in Lake Victoria North and yet, they are from another region. The grouping of those boards has nothing to do with the tribal and geographical arrangements. The people upstream and those downstream must work together within that one catchment area, so that the people upstream do not mess with the water. The people downstream will have no water for their needs. That is why we need people to understand that arrangement. Mr. Ndambuki talked about the lack of water in Machakos and Makueni. We are addressing that issue very seriously. Soon, we will be getting out of it. Mr. ole Metito also talked about water in certain towns. I want to assure him that, as a friend of mine, we are looking at that very seriously. Soon, we will get that done. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I may not be able to touch on every aspect that was mentioned. But I want to assure hon. Members that I have heard them. I am very happy. My officers have felt very encouraged by the way hon. Members have contributed. I am sure that, out of your comments, we are going to deliver better services to Kenyans. We will do that with your support. With those few remarks, I beg to move.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that:- THAT, a sum not exceeding Kshs4,435,456,955 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2008, in respect of:- Vote 20 - The Ministry of Water and Irrigation

August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3409

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. Turning to page 879, Head 716, Sub-Head 0140 - Athi Water Services Board, Item 2630100 - I have always complained, these prints are very small. The title of that Item is "Current Grants to Government Agencies and other Levels of Government." I just want the Minister to explain this. During the last financial year, that particular Item was granted Kshs30 million. During this financial year, it has an allocation of Kshs200 million. Could the Minister explain the astronomical increase? What is it about? Have they employed more staff members or what does it entail? Are they buying more chemicals?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I would like to assure the hon. Member that, as the population of an area grows, the requirements for more water also grows. Since we started these boards, they had no staff. Now, they have more members of staff. This money will be used to meet those of kinds of expenditure for personal emoluments and also office operations so that they can provide better services to people. There is still more to be done. That is why we need more money.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. Regarding the same Item, I want to raise a similar question, although it is related to the next Item. The first Item is on Athi River Water Services Board, Item No.2630100, and the sum allocated to it is Kshs200 million. If you compare that with Item No.2630100, Lake Victoria South Water Services Board, which has an allocation of only Kshs70 million--- Further down, the same Item, Lake Victoria North Water Services Board, has an allocation of Kshs53 million. If you compare that amount with what has been allocated to the Athi River Water Services Board, which is Kshs200 million, and the population in that area, you will agree with me, since you know that area very well, that the explanation given by the Minister that the population in Athi River is high is wrong. Could the Minister explain why he is discriminating against the whole population of over 10 million Kenyans in western Kenya?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want to assure the hon. Member that there is no discrimination at all. When we talk about Athi River Water Services Board, we are not saying that it serves only Athi River. This Board also covers Nairobi. There is no other town in this country that has a higher population than Nairobi. So, that is self-explanatory. The Athi River Water Services Board covers Nairobi, Embu, Kiambu, Machakos and Makueni. In terms of population, this is the Board that covers the highest population and the need for water is the same. This depends on the area that a board serves. I think the hon. Member is satisfied.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman Sir, I am not entirely satisfied. I am also a resident of Nairobi. In fact, I spend most of my time in Nairobi. I also know that the Nairobi City Council has a water services company. In fact, they have a lot of revenue and their supplies come from North Murang'a. That explanation, therefore, is not adequate because the amount of money that Nairobi City Council gets from its services is so much that it does not need any more money to be given to them. It would be wrong.

I think the hon. Member has got it wrong. When we are talking about payments to officers working for these boards, we must realise that the money we have is not enough. Some of the money for this purpose is raised from Appropriations-In-Aid. This is money raised from selling water by the Nairobi Water and Sewerage Company, Machakos Water Company and Kiambu Water Company. That is the money which we are talking about and it is ploughed back to pay for water services. That is why 3410 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 there is that difference.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, considering that the disparity is very wide, that raises curiosity. On what----

Order! You should start by saying what Head, and Item number, you are talking about!

I am still on the---

Read it! Do you have the book?

No, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I do not have the book but I have the mind! My reasoning is that the disparities between Kshs200 million and Kshs70 million, based on the population, is the Minister basing this on the fact that there are areas which are productive and need more water to produce food or is it because of the consumption by urban people?

That is a general question! Mr. Minister, you can reply if you so wish. He is not specific!

I have not heard the question.

Capt. Nakitare, could you ask again? The Minister is not with you.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on what basis is the Ministry allocating Kshs200 million to the Athi River Water Basin and Kshs70 million for the Lake Victoria North Basin? Is it based on agricultural production or on human consumption? What was it?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with my colleague on this issue. The issue has to do with the payment of salaries to staff and other related emoluments in line with staff working there. It is a question of the number of staff we have there. What we are giving to Athi Water Services Board is Kshs35 million. The rest is Appropriations-in-Aid (A-in-A), that is what they raise and spend within the same. So, it has to do with the staff working there. If you compare the number of staff, they are more in Nairobi than those in Kakamega.

Hon. Member for Saboti, we are dealing with Recurrent Expenditure of the Ministry. That is what we are looking at.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Head 716, page 881 - Water Services Boards, Sub-Head 0146 - Northern Water Services Board, you will notice that there is only a figure of Kshs10 million. Given the fact that the Northern Water Services Board covers a very large area and in view of the Government's stated extension of affirmative action, is the Minister satisfied that a mere sum of Kshs10 million is enough to cater for Recurrent Expenditure in the whole of that region, given that communication can be very expensive?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am not satisfied. It would be possible if you gave me more money.

Ask for it!

Next time I will give them more. But for now, that is what we can afford and that is what we are giving out.

August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3411 SUB-VOTE 207 - RURAL-URBAN SPECIAL WATER PROGRAMMES

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to seek clarification on Head 893 - Water Resources, under sub-heading -Headquarters, Item 2620100 - Membership Fees and Dues and Subscription to International Organizations, and also the next Item. The first Item attracts an estimate of Kshs1 million and another one Kshs1.15 million. I am concerned that there is duplication. Since this is taxpayers' money, I would like the Minister to explain whether there is any duplication whatsoever, because we know what accountants can do. They can allocate money twice and then give us. Could you explain which organization this is and what it is for? Is there any duplication?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was just consulting with my officers whether there could be any duplication. But I have confirmed that there is no duplication. It is funds meant to go to organizations which we are affiliated to, for example, HAMCOW and the Nile Basin Initiative which are some of our organizations. These kind of money is used for those operations and all countries contribute to the same. There is no duplication.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, at page 886, Head 892, there are two Items on A-in-A. I just want the Minister to explain because the Items show receipts from incidental sales by non-market establishments. I am concerned that the Minister is saying that he is going to receive Kshs150,000 on the first Item and another Kshs1.5 million from similar receipts from sales by non-market establishments. What are those non-market and incidental sales? Is it a way of camouflaging receipts from corrupt sources?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, the hon. Member is talking about "corrupt means" which is unparliamentary but I want to assure him that there is no corruption. These receipts are from various sources; like the sales we are making. In every area, there are sales from water, sewerage services and so on. Those receipts amount to that. I want to assure the hon. Member that the money we are talking about is not for corruption.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, if, indeed, it is A-in-A as provided there and he is talking about receiving Kshs150,000 which he is calling "receipts from incidental sales by non-market establishments." What are these non-market establishments? Give examples!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we are talking about receipts or monies being received, for example, when you have tender documents or assets for disposal. Those are some of the receipts we receive. If you buy a tender document in my Ministry, that is how we capture it.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, allow the Minister to respond because we are doing this on behalf of tax-payers. On page 887, Head 893 under Sub-Head 0002 which is talking about Information Communication Technology Unit, you will notice that the amount of money involved is very little. But, last year, there was an allocation but this year there is nothing. Has that unit been disbanded? Mr. Minister, remember that when hon. Members were debating this Vote, they said that this Ministry should be computerised so that we do not lose money. Are you disbanding this unit? Is there money allocated elsewhere? 3412 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, this is a very important process that we are going through. I want to assure the hon. Member that we are not disbanding it. We have moved it to the Headquarters under Head 567. So, it is still on.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, under Head 282 on page 532, there is an Item on Basic Wages. It is under Mount Kenya East Pilot Project. As you recall, during my contribution yesterday, I raised issues about this project. Now, there is an increase this financial year from Kshs25 million to Kshs40 million. Could the Minister explain who has been employed and where because this project is actually a white elephant?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I know the hon. Member has a lot of interest in this and so do I. I want to assure him that this project has a component of support on the communities; by training and empowering them. This has to be done by officers who have to be recruited and paid for the same. This is an area that we need to look at very carefully.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, under Head 716, Water Services Boards, Item 3110500, Construction and Civil Works, the allocation this year is over Kshs3.5 billion. If you allow me to go to the next Item which is 3111500 - Rehabilitation and Civil Works, there is an allocation of Kshs370 million. On the first Item, I want the Minister to tell us which are these civil works under construction which will cost over Kshs3.5 billion. Could he also tell us which rehabilitation works are these because the figure is quite a huge one?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3413 Sir, this figure covers all donor-funded projects throughout the country and also the Government component of this. So, these projects are not in one area. They are spread all over and funded by different donors and that is why they have been lumped together.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, if you look at the very bottom of that, there are various Items under Appropriations-in-Aid and under the same very Water Services Boards, the Grant-in-Aid is Kshs3.25 billion. However, we are talking about is Kshs3.524 billion. There is a difference there. Why is there this difference? Is this an accounting or a typing error? These are donor-funded projects. Will these projects be undertaken in Kisumu?

Mr. Sungu, could I understand your question?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, in the past, I studied accounts. We have to balance the accounts. If you look at the column under the Government Section, which is those items beginning with 2630100 Government Grants to Government agencies and all the way--- If you look at the particular item of "Construction of Civil Works, Kshs3.5 billion is allocated to it. That is Item 3110500 and then you compare it with the total figure under A-in-A; the total figure is Kshs3.25 billion. They are close, but there is a difference. Could the Minister tell me whether that difference is out of a typing error or whether it is actually deliberate and some money is missing somewhere?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want to confirm that there is no error. I want to confirm to the hon. Member that this project also covers the projects I launched with him in Kisumu. So, there is no error. The only difference is that it includes revenue, GOK and donor component. So, that is the disparity in terms of the figures, but there is no error at all.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, on page 532, there is this Item on Training Expenses. It is 2210700. It has gone up this year by Kshs20 million. The Minister, while explaining the issue of basic salaries which I had addressed earlier on, he talked about these training expenses. If, indeed, there is an increase in the training expenses, when the project is in its third year, why is it then that there is less in the area of construction which is shown as Item 3110500? Why is there a corresponding balance?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. We have been trying to follow what the hon. Member is asking the Minister for Water and Irrigation to explain. He is not asking the Minister alone. We are also in the House. We want to follow. Is he talking about training or construction? Can he come back clearly, so that we also follow what he is trying to raise?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, it would be very difficult if I were to ask questions to hon. Members who do not have the Printed Estimates. The Minister for Water and Irrigation is not complaining!

Order, Mr. Muturi! Mr. Murungi is quite in order! Let him be with you! He has got a legitimate concern and, particularly, so as he is also a Minister of the Government. If he wants to follow what you are asking the Minister for Water and Irrigation, he is right. Mr. Muturi, proceed, so that he can understand what issues you are raising.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, repeating the question will even help the Minister, if the other one is incapacitated. Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I was just saying that earlier on, when I raised the issue on the first Item on the increase in basic salaries, the Minister explained that there was the element of training and such things. I am now pointing out that there is a specific provision for training expenses, which means, therefore, that the earlier explanation about the increase is not so much about training. Therefore, his earlier explanation that the increase in basic salaries was to go 3414 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 to training is not correct, given that there is a clear provision for training expenses.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, as I said, these projects have more to do with issues of water and agriculture, environment, capacity building, construction, et cetera . If you look at the amounts involved, you will see that they have doubled. Of course, we expect that, with that kind of work in terms of construction, training, et cetera, there will be more spending in this line.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, now that the Minister has talked bout the issue of construction of civil works, which fall under Item 3110500, whose allocation has jumped from more than Kshs74 million to Kshs169 million, and since this particular allocation shown here is not provided for in the district allocations, could he specify here, for the entire House to know, where those particular civil works are located? We cannot find them in the district allocations he has printed for us.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I would encourage the hon. Member to read more from the District Allocations Books. As I said, we have brought together all the funds for donor-funded projects under one Vote Head. The works will differ from one area to another. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, talking of the area he comes from, we are now moving to actual activities, which include construction of the tanks he has been complaining about. We now want to do them more and more. We want to connect more people to piped water. We want to be on the ground. That is why the amount has doubled from Kshs74 million to Kshs169 million. So, this is a project which I said from the beginning was not properly crafted. The hon. Member will bear with us. As a Ministry, we are looking at it very keenly to see that it is properly implemented, even though a lot of money and time has been spent on training, capacity building and related activities.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I would like to refer the Minister to Head 716, Water Services Boards.

On what page are you, Mr. Sungu?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am referring to page 533, Head 716, Water Services Board. With your permission, I want to connect this Head with Head 886, Headquarters and Professional Services. What I am worried about is the provision for research, feasibility studies, project preparation design and project supervision. Under Head 716, Water Services Board, you will note that under Item 3111400, last year, there was an allocation of Kshs55 million, but this year there is absolutely nothing! The relevant question is: Are we not doing any further research or feasibility studies? Do we intend to progress or are we stagnating? If we relate that to the next one, Item 311400, under Head 886, Headquarters and Professional Services, you will see that last year we had Kshs37 million but this year, we have only Kshs30 million, which, again, means that we are going down. Could the Minister explain whether the area of research, feasibility studies, project preparation, design and project supervision are gone with the wind? We need to progress, and not retrogress!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is the effect of reforms. The Headquarters remains for formulation of policy and co- ordination of the same. Therefore, you would expect that as the reforms take root, most of the services will be handled at the boards' level, district level, et cetera . So, I would like to assure the hon. Member that for the services that are supposed to be provided at the Headquarters by the Director of Water, he will be there to ensure that designs are properly done, and that supervision is properly done. That is why we have some amounts. However, in terms of reforms, we are trying to decentralise. So, services are being transferred to other sectors.

I now have to put the Question! August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3415

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, please, allow me to follow up, because the Minister has not answered the main question! He has said that he decentralised functions from the Headquarters to the Water Services Boards. On this same Item, on the Water Services Boards, last year he had Kshs55 million, but this year there is nothing, which means that this decentralisation is neither here nor there. There is no allocation whatsoever. So, he has not explained why there is no allocation for the functions I pointed out this year.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, in terms of supervision, at times you find that you are using money from the Ministry. At other times, we use money from donor kitties. So, this year, we are relying more on donor funds to do supervision. Last year, we spent Kshs55 million of Government of Kenya money to do supervision. That is why we have no provision for supervision this year. The hon. Member should be happy that the Kenyan taxpayer's money is not being spent on supervision, and that we are using our friends' money to provide those services.

The last question, Mr. Muturi!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want the Minister to listen to this one very carefully. I am referring to page 533, Head 714. There is only one Item. I want this Head compared with Head 716. My question is this: Under Head 714, the Item is given as Item 2630100, described as "Capital Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government" and allocated Kshs80 million. Under Head 716, the Item is "Water Services Trust Fund". The other one is headed "Water Services Boards". There are two Items on which I would like to get an explanation from the Minister. The first two Items are both described as "Capital Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government". The first one is allocated Kshs549 million. The Head is different. The next one is Item 2630200. So, it is a different Item but it is also described as "Capital Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government" and allocated a paltry sum of Kshs5 million. Since these two Items are actually described similarly, and they are the same, why is it that provisions are different and are under different Items? Why could the two Items not be put together? The first one is under the "Water Services Boards" Head. Why has the same Item title been given two different Item numbers?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, these are two different Items. One of this, the Kshs80 million, is going to the implementation of projects to do with officers in the district, who assist the Water Trust Fund in terms of going to the projects, supervising those projects and so on. So, in terms of the Water Trust Fund, that is no problem. The other one is capital grant to the Water Services Boards for similar activities. So, the idea here is to capture the two items, because they are grants anyway, but to different institutions. One is the Water Trust Fund. The other one is to the Water Services boards. I do not know what is not clear here.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, let me just explain to the Minister---

Now you see, we must mind our time! I am going to bring it to a conclusion. Let us finish off!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, that is why I said that the Minister should listen carefully. Under Water Services Boards, Head, 716, the first Item is 2630100. It is Capital Grants to Government Agencies and Other Level of Government - Kshs549 million plus. The next Item is 2630200. A different Item number. But the description is: Capital Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government - Kshs5 million. Why could you not put them together and give an allocation of Kshs554 million? What is the explanation?

Is my reading wrong? I need to be guided here. The first Item that hon. Muturi is referring to refers to current grants to Government. The second one is referring to capital grants. Perhaps, the Minister should be able to explain the 3416 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 difference. It is "current" and "capital".

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, in fact, the matter of most concern is that there are two Item numbers which are the same under two different Heads. An accountant, if we were to computerised--- These would show as one Item. This is an election year. This is how money can be hidden for election purposes! This Parliament had made an awkward decision one day. The other day, we had the Goldenberg because we did not ask.

Mr. sungu, I am pressed for time! I want you to be specific in what you want clarified.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, he should explain why those two Items under Heads 714 and 716 are the same - 2630100; "Current Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government" The other Item with the same number reads: "Current Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government". That is not right!

Mr. Sungu, if I may ask you, what about the description of the title? The first one is "Water Services Trust Fund". The other one is "Water Services Boards."

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, what I am raising here is actually that, those Item numbers should never be the same. They should progress onwards. If they are the same, it means there is duplication. In accounting practises, it could never be right.

Fine! Mr. Minister!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want to agree with you on the way you are correcting him. These are two different institutions. One is Water Trust Fund. In fact, what I want to answer is what Mr. Muturi is asking about Item 2630100 - Current Grants to Government Agencies and Other Levels of Government. Then, there are Capital Grants. Here, we have donor funds by Swedish International Development Agency (SIDA) and Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) for various projects. But then, under the same, the Government has to have complimentary funds. That is why the two are separate. One is from the donor and the other one is Government's component. The two then form one. I think that is very clear to him.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, this is the last one! I can see that the Minister is worried! I just want to

raise a general issue with regard to page 537, Head 785, Item 3110500, Construction and Civil Works. I raised this issue, that the Minister has merely allocated Kshs555 million to the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation.

What Item are you talking about, Mr. Muturi?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am talking about the second Item.

Which Head?

Head 785, the second Item.

That is Item 3110500.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. Unlike what we have seen in the other Heads and Items, it appears that the Minister, after this financial year, is doing away with the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation. Is that the intention? This is because there is no proposal for any allocation in the years to follow, contrary to the practice with regard to all the others. I want the Minister to comment on that point, which is general.

On page 538, Head 896, Item 3111500, Rehabilitation of Civil Works, I note that there is a decrease in the amount of money allocated to this Item. Is this to suggest that the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation is actually planned to be done away with in certain areas since in all other Items, it is provided for even the years to come? However, in these ones, which are so critical, for example, rehabilitation of civil works; drilling of boreholes and construction of civil works, nothing has been provided for in the years to come. What is the intention of the Ministry?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I want to confirm that it is true. It is not a mistake. However, the reason is that the programme of drilling boreholes and dams in ASAL areas was a three-year programme. So, the three-year programme is ending this financial year. Unless we come up with another policy, that is the reason why we have not provided money for the next financial year.

3418 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am directed to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Resolution that a sum not exceeding Kshs4,435,456,955 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2008 in respect of Vote 20 - the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and has approved the same without amendment.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution.

(Mr. Shakombo) seconded.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was unable to contribute to this debate because, as you know, I was doing something elsewhere on the same. Having said that, I want to congratulate the Minister for the manner in which he has moved this Motion. Indeed, he has seen the interest hon. Members have had in this particular Vote. I will, therefore, request that he continues to do the good job he is doing. I would like also to ask him to apply affirmative action, so that the areas that have not been looked after very effectively, are considered when allocating funds; particularly so, when getting funding from donors.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to congratulate the Minister and his very able team for the good job they continue doing in the country. We can all see it as there is water being given almost everywhere. However, I would like to urge the Minister to intensify programmes to train communities on how to manage water. This way, we can get the effects on the ground. I thank the Ministry because they are doing a very good job. I hope they will take the City on board. I think they have left it too much on the Nairobi City Council (NCC) and we are getting a raw deal.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to congratulate my very good friend, the Minister and his team. It is a job well-done. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am particularly happy with the establishment of the Water Services Boards (WSBs). The reforms in this sector are very important. The Lake Victoria Water Services Board (LVWSB) has made sure that hon. Members and stakeholders are always consulted. That is very important. However, allow me to say that service providers, like Kisumu Water and Sewerage Company (KIWASCO), must ensure that when AFAD finishes their project in Kisumu, they will completely eliminate the kiosk owners who cut water pipes and divert water to sell in jerry cans at exorbitant prices to wananchi . The water could as well reach houses without their interference. As I conclude, I would like to say that the flooding in Budalangi and Nyamasaria in Kisumu must be eliminated, if this Government is to be considered pro-poor. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to join my colleagues in congratulating the Minister for a job well done. In the same breath, I want to request him to ensure that the people living downstream from water sources do not suffer because others prevent them by cutting pipes or preventing them from accessing the sources upstream. Having August 22, 2007 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3419 said that, I only want to insist that we should protect those people downstream. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, finally, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the project called Mt. Kenya East Bio-Project, I would like to say that, of late, we are seeing good signs. I want to encourage the staff and the Minister so that, that trend continues. They should increase the speed so that, by the time the project comes to an end, we have seen better results. But I think so far, so good.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister and his team for a job well done. But we expect to see more funds allocated to this very important Ministry in the next financial year. As the saying goes, "Water is life". We cannot have a better life if we cannot have clean drinking water. We hope that in the next financial year, more money will be put towards irrigation programmes. Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Finally, hon. Obwocha!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have just one line comment. We want to congratulate the Minister and the Ministry officials. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if a study has not been done - and I know there is a study that has been done - we want figures to eliminate the issue of lack of water in Ukambani. We want to put it in our plan and remove it once and for all. We do not want relief food being taken to Ukambani every year! I hope the Minister and his officers are hearing me. Let us get the figures. If it is Kshs5 billion, let us get it. If it is Kshs10 billion, let us get it. Whatever figure it is, let us have it for our planning in order to eliminate lack of water in Ukambani. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Second last, Prof. Mango!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Water and Irrigation. I would like to add that he should have more money, so that he can come up with more irrigation schemes as a poverty reduction strategy. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the water service boards should come up with work- plans, and consult hon. Members within their areas. That way, we can agree on what should be done. We can also see what they are doing. To date, I have not seen what the water services board in my area is doing.

Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!

Finally, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment about the Budalangi floods. I was born there. Year in, year out, there are floods there. But what is happening now is that the river mouth is blocked by siltation. There is need for dredging, if the water is to flow. That tends to be ignored and the flooding is as a result of the flow of water. With those few remarks, I thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Wanjala, one and half a second!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to comment on the work well done in my Ministry, and led by my Minister and our senior staff. I just want to tell my staff that they have seen how the issue of Budalangi has featured in the country, and how Kenyans have been sympathetic. The money that has been allocated for the study of damming River Nzoia should be prioritized. The officers concerned must move to the ground and finalise that study, so that we sort out the issue of 3420 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES August 22, 2007 Budalangi once and for all. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, hon. Members! It is now time for the interruption of business. The House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow Thursday, 23rd August, 2007 at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.