On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The new Standing Orders came into operation just yesterday. The spirit of those Stand Orders is that before the Supplementary Estimates are laid on the Table of the House, the Budget Policy Statement needs to be tabled also. When does the Minister expect to do so?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have been having meetings with the Budget Committee and we have also engaged with your office on this particular matter. It was, indeed, agreed that the New Standing Orders came in to effect half-way during the Budget preparation cycle. It was agreed that the year for full implementation of the new Standing Orders would be the Financial Year 2009/2010. However, we did agree with the Budget Committee that we would have a session with them where we would present the Policy Statement to them, but not in the format that is laid out within the current Standing Orders. As I said, it was impossible for the Treasury to adjust itself within the same period to actually fulfill the requirements of the new Standing Orders.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg the indulgence of this House that as, indeed, discussed and agreed, the year for full implementation of the new Standing Orders be the Financial Year 2009/2010.
Hon. Members, the Minister would have the indulgence of the House for the following reasons. The new Standing Orders, as passed by the House and adopted in December last year, take effect from the 21st April, 2009, which was yesterday. Those events that were programmed to take place prior to the 21st of April 2009 are, therefore, overtaken. The Minister would be expected to comply with the provisions of the new Standing Orders henceforth. He has assured the Chair, on behalf of the House, that he would do so. Indeed, we have drawn his attention to those provisions. So, as at where we are, there is no breach.
Yes, Mr. Abdikadir!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: - THAT, a sum not exceeding Kshs16,355,411,140 be granted from the Consolidated Fund to meet expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2009 in respect of Supplementary Estimates of 2008/2009 Financial Year, Recurrent, having regard to the proposed reduction of Kshs15, 633,315,630 therein appearing;
THAT a sum not exceeding Kshs9, 895,900,650 be granted from the Consolidated Fund to meet expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2009 in respect of Supplementary Estimates 2008/2009 financial year, Development, having regard to the proposed reduction of Kshs11, 695,894,670 therein appearing.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, His Excellency the President has signified his consent to this Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Section 41(3) of the Constitution of Kenya; this House approves the recommendations on the Chair and Members of the Interim Independent Electoral Commission (IIEC) contained in the Report of the
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House orders that the Business appearing in todayâs Order Paper be exempted from the provisions of Standing Order No.38(1), being a Wednesday morning, a day allocated for Private Membersâ Motions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I move this Motion, I think all of us would want to recognize the very historic happening yesterday, of the Official Opening of this Third Session of the Tenth Parliament. I had occasion yesterday to go to the public media and urge them to treat this august House with the dignity it deserves. It pained me over, the last few days, to see the dignity of Members of Parliament being run down; that they have negative payslips and all manner of complications. I thought this was not the way to treat the dignity of this House. So, yesterday, I was busy trying to say that we do not have a new set of Members of Parliament, or leaders in this nation, at this particular time. I think it is important that we rise to the occasion and reclaim the dignity, leadership and destiny of this nation.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is necessary to move this Procedural Motion because the House Business Committee has to sit and agree on the Business of this House. I do not think there is any Member of Parliament ready with any Motion because the same has to be approved by the House Business Committee. Therefore, this Procedural Motion will facilitate the next Order without anticipating debate. We can adjourn later and set the business before the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move and ask Mr. Kenyatta to second this Procedural Motion.
(Mr. Kenyatta) seconded.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Members for passing that Procedural Motion without debate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.158 the following be appointed as Members of the House Business Committee:- 1. Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, MP
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support this Motion. This is a very key Committee of this honourable Chamber. The functions of the Committee are well known to all of us. We set business not just for the House, but ultimately, the legislative calendar for this country. Therefore, I beg to second.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to strongly oppose this list.
We cannot continue paying lip service to democracy. It is part of democracy to make equitable representation. It is part of the Governmentâs policy to ensure that 30 per cent of people in any institution are women. This House comprises many women. There are only four women out of 21 Members. It is not only ridiculing Kenyan women but it is also showing a nation which has been left behind by other nations in the world, as far as democracy and respect for women is concerned. We protest strongly, as women Members of this House, against being paid lip service where His Excellency the President who is the leader of one party side has advocated the policy of women representation of 30 per cent. The Right Hon. Prime Minister, who is the leader of the other side, has also said the same in public, in the Government and everywhere. Why should this House then not honour this stated Government policy? The leaders of the parties who made this list and forwarded it to the House should account to women of this nation and other marginalized groups on why they must continue with this trend. They must put their action where their mouths are! With those few remarks, I beg to oppose.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to oppose this list!
What gave the Kibaki side of the Coalition, because it can no longer be called PNU, because PNU is a political party, numbers to be able to merit 50 per cent of this Committee, equal to ODM when there are many parties that are in it? This list pretends that there is only KANU, ODM(K) and PNU as parties on that side. There is NARC(K) and other small parties. This list is a demonstration of strong-arm tactics that are employed by the Kibaki side of the Coalition. For instance, I am the party leader of NARC(K) and it is known but they want to be blind to it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if my leaving the Government means that I be removed from the list, why does the Kibaki side of the Coalition not admit that they are now a minority in Parliament and hand over leadership to the majority?
I am saying that this type of behaviour does not augur well and it is not acceptable. There was no consultation. NARC(K) has more than 12 Members. We merit a slot, not as begging but as of right. If this is how the Kibaki side of the Coalition is going
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also stand here to oppose this list.
If we have to advance democracy, equity must be addressed. This is very important if we are to lead this country in the most effective way. The PNU side, which is supposed to have ten hon. Members is supposed to distribute its slots according to its Coalition. Therefore, it is usurping democracy if you miss NARC(K) in the list. It is important that, as we stand here as leaders of this country, we must advance the truth, what is fair and what is equitable so that the people we lead may understand that we have leaders in Parliament. With those few remarks, I beg to oppose.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose this Motion. In doing so, I wish to draw the attention of the House to the specific provisions of Standing Order No.158(1) that reads:- âThere shall be a Select Committee to be designated the House Business Committee consisting of not less than 15 and not more than 21 Members who shall be nominated by each parliamentary party and approved by the House at the commencement of every Session reflecting the relative majorities of the seats held by each of the parliamentary parties in the National Assembly.â This list does not reflect the majorities of the parties of this House! To that extent, therefore, I wish to say that this Motion must be defeated.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose this Motion.
In doing so, during the last Session of Parliament, when the names of the HBC were presented to this House we saw, again, the number of women who had been appointed to that Committee and I opposed it at that time. The Leader of Government Business then said that âLet that remain but we will take into account the position that we should have more womenâ. If you look at this list, I do not know how the consultations were done. Although I am a Member of the HBC today as presented, I do not think it is fair that you would only have four women in this very important committee. Therefore, the parties
Mr. Speaker, Sir, obviously, you know that I am opposing this Motion for very good reasons.
Order, Mr. Imanyara! The Chair does not know that you are opposing the Motion!
I apologize, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am informing the Chair that I am opposing this Motion. This habit of running this country on the old habits; taking this House for granted, calling a Government which is a Coalition Government âmy Governmentâ and imposing lists on hon. Members who have been elected by the people of Kenya must be rejected. If this Government feels that they can come to this House, use strong-arm tactics and get away with it, those days are numbered. This morning, we are going to show them how we are going to do it from now henceforth. This list must be rejected for the reasons that there has been no consultation. It is not representative, it is not gender sensitive and it is not a consensus team of the HBC. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not about political parties, the President or the Leader of Government Business. It is a House Business Committee and, therefore, it should have the confidence of every representative in this House. As constituted, this list does not meet those requirements. Therefore, I oppose it and say that we must reject it.
(Mr. Kabando wa Kabando)
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Motion but I would like to go a step further by moving. That, this Motion be deferred until consultations are done between Members of the Back Bench and leaders of political parties so that our views are brought on board and proper names are included for us to cast a vote. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason for doing this is that I recall, after the infamous 2007 General Elections, a helicopter was sent to Kakamega to pick Members of Parliament of New FORD(K), Mr. Shitanda and I, so that we could come and help the President to have numbers to challenge the Prime Minister. How come he has forgotten that? In fact, without New FORD(K), they would not have found an able Minister like Mr. Shitanda, who is the Minister for Housing. We must be consulted when the news is good and also when times are bad. Let us defer this list. There is a deliberate effort to
Who is seconding?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request Ms. Karua to second my Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I strongly second the Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support Dr. Khalwaleâs proposal. The reason is that this is one Committee over which there must be agreement in order for the business of the House to proceed. Therefore, those sentiments that hon. Members have expressed are valid. They include the composition of the list, the consideration of small parties and the fact that NARC(K) is a party which is a member of the PNU Coalition. Though it may not necessarily be so at the moment, and I stand to be corrected, I do not think that NARC(K) is a parliamentary party in terms of Standing Order No.158. That being the case, we do not need to be angry with one another. The spirit of consultation is very healthy. Therefore, I want to thank the hon. Members who have expressed those concerns. Let us also take note of the fact that there can only be 21 Members in this Committee. Therefore, it may be absolutely difficult to accommodate all the interest groups, but I think an attempt must be made. If this Motion is defeated, it means that, we will not have business until after six months according to your predecessorâs ruling. Therefore, Dr. Khalwaleâs move is very wise. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support Dr. Khalwaleâs suggestion to defer this Motion of amendment. If you look at the provisions of Standing Order No.158, it says that at least 30 per cent must be Members of the Back Bench. In my understanding of English, it does not mean that from the 21 Members, it is only seven Members. As a sign of good faith when constituting this Committee, there should be 50 per cent Ministers and 50 per cent Backbenchers so that we can make sure that we put the business of the Back Bench and that of the Government at par.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support the deferment of the Motion because, if it is defeated, it would mean serious consequences for us. We would have no business for at least six months. As I support the deferment of the Motion, I wish to caution the Leader of Government Business that whenever he brings a Motion, it does not have to be a Member of his side of the Grand Coalition that supports it. When he brings a Motion on the Floor of the House, let him ask the other side of the coalition also to support. Otherwise, he is showing us a divided coalition Government.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support Dr. Khalwaleâs amendment. This is due to the fact that we all cannot overlook the kind of Back Bench that this Parliament has. When the Backbenchers signify their intention of checking the Government where they are coalescing and calling themselves the Opposition Caucus for
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to support the Motion by Dr. Khalwale. If you look at the proposed list, they did not even deem it necessary to include only one youth from either side. They should have included one from PNU and another one from ODM. I might not be qualified to be referred to as a âyouthâ but get somebody who is 35 years or below. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the other issue concerning the PNU and ODM(K) side, there are no consultations. It appears that we are only valuable when we are contributing the monthly kitty to the parties. Parties have been ignored. If you can ignore a party like NARC(K), it seems the PNU side has gone to something they are calling âmbus â. That should be avoided! Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute and support this very wise move of suspending this debate. It is not every time that you disagree with a great colleague like Dr. Khalwale. On this score, he is extremely right. But, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must also sound some caution. This is unfortunate because the hon. Members are extremely right! I am not in this list and I do not wish to be there because we want to include Backbenchers in the Committee. It is unfortunate that some of us behave like rogue Whips. It is unfortunate! Consultations must and need to be done!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether we are going back to the Nyayometer days when they looked at somebody and said: âHe is more Nyayo than the other!â
We want to stop that kind of impunity and on move to build consensus, so that this Coalition Government can run its course and give Kenyans the reforms they want! Let us not have people who want to divide this Coalition for the purpose of maintaining the
and then we fail to get reforms! Not a single section of this House can give Kenyans reforms. It is consensus and consultations! Let us not look at Nyayometers because their time is gone! Consult! I do not want my name to be on this list, but I want to support the position that 50 per cent of members of their Committee be Back-benchers. With those few remarks, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I stand to support the Motion moved by Dr. Khalwale. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this country is suffering because of the disease of âexclusivityâ where, every time, somebody wants to exclude another so that he can win. I think this is a spirit we must kill in this House! The problems we had in 2007 were purely a product of exclusivity where some Kenyans felt they were excluded from the system and yet, they were Kenyans.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, inclusivity must start from this House. It must start from the House Business Committee! Consultations have to be done and everybody who has a right to be there must be given a chance!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of women was started in 2003 by the President himself. He started a policy whereby one-third of all appointments should go to women. The nation did us proud in 2007 and brought many women to Parliament. But where are they on this list? It is as though we want to kill that policy here.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to kill the spirit of exclusivity and have inclusivity in this country in order for us to enjoy peace, we must be inclusive in the House itself! I propose that when we go for consultations, we will take into consideration not only the Back- benchers but the womenfolk in this House.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support Dr. Khalwaleâs proposal amendment. It is not lost to many Kenyans that, although many times during general elections, we are able, as Kenyans, to bring in new faces to this House, the politics of this House and of this country are not changing. The reason seems to be that there is a core that always comes back, that seems to take us round in circles every time we want to bring changes to this country.
The other dispensable majority does not really have a say in what happens in the direction that this country wants to take.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think time has come to take consultations more seriously; to take other people seriously, particularly the Back Bench, and to ventilate our politics. Therefore, I rise to propose or, rather, to agree with those that are saying that the constitution of this Committee should be in the ratio of 50:50. There should be 50 per cent from the Government and 50 per cent from the Back Bench. I propose, therefore, to support Dr. Khalwaleâs proposal.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support Dr. Khalwaleâs Motion to adjourn and consult. Judging from the mood in the House, it is obvious that inadequate, or no consultations were done. I have been consulting with the Leader of Government Business and he has told me that he consulted with the Whips. It does, therefore, appear that, perhaps, our Whips are not consulting the parties below them. That is because we have a Chief Whip from the ODM side and a Chief Whip from the PNU side. I want to urge them to go down to the levels---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for hon. Wetangula to make an allegation that is not correct? I want to say clearly and categorically that when
Order, Mr. Wetangula! Are you misleading the House? Your Whip is putting a different position.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what my Whip has said, in fact, fortifies what I have said. I want to liberate him from being a messenger to being a Whip, so that he can do his job and not convey messages!
A Whip is a very critical functionary in any political dispensation in a parliamentary system. I want my friends, Thuo and Midiwo, to be real Whips so that they go down to the parties, talk to them, get their views and representations so that we can move on.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have a heavy agenda ahead of us. We have to deliver a Constitution to this country. If we start on this note, of showing very active disagreement on a matter that we ought to have come here united, then we are sending the wrong signals, contrary to what you said yesterday! I want to urge that we bring this to a quick end so that we withdraw and consult. That will enable us to come up with a list that is acceptable to both sides of the House, taking into account all the issues raised by hon. Members, so that we can be able to move forward as a united House. That is because, if we lose even one single hon. Member, the process of reforms that we have embarked on gets into jeopardy. I want to urge the leaders of the parties, their Whips and everybody else to come to the centre so that we move as a Parliament and deliver what this country expects us to do.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! The Motion before the House, which has now been deliberated for some time, is as I proposed, which is that the debate be now adjourned. It is not an amendment Motion.
Hon. Members, I wish to urge and appeal to the Leader of Government Business, and other political leaders of political parties that are represented in the House, to ensure that earnest consultations take place and that you arrive at a consensus that is in consonance with the spirit of the Standing Orders as are in place. Please, do so the whole of this morning and by the time we resume this afternoon, I expect and really hope that consensus will have been arrived at and that will ensure that there is inclusivity.
Hon. Members, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House is, therefore, adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 9.50 a.m.