Hon. Members, I wish to introduce to you, and welcome this afternoon, a delegation from the Southern Sudan Legislature who are seated at the Speaker’s Row. They are:- Hon. Dr. Richard K. Mulla, MP – Chairman and Team Leader Hon. Lt. Marcho Chol Maciec, MP Hon. Paulinjo Apiny Akol, MP Hon. Oliver Mori Benjamin, MP Hon. Dr. Toby Madut Parek, MP Hon. Lucy Abba Sebastiano, MP

The delegation has been in the country since Sunday on a study visit on the modalities and successes in the implementation of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF). During their stay, they will visit the CDF projects in some constituencies. They will also interact with some of our Committees, meet with hon. Members and officers of the National Assembly. On behalf of the House, and on my behalf, I wish the delegation a happy stay in Kenya.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030 the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that in spite of his assurance to the public that all the persons who were involved in conducting the recently concluded census exercise would be paid, village elders and police officers are yet to receive their dues? (b) How much were the elders and police officers supposed to be paid per day respectively, for the exercise? (c) Can the Minister provide the list of village elders and police officers involved in the exercise, indicating against each name whether or not they have been paid?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there have been demonstrations all over the country. I saw village elders demonstrating in Kisauni, Kiambu, Kitale and Trans Nzoia. I would like to know from the Minister whether the amount of Kshs400 had been communicated to the village elders before their services were engaged. Why is there a discrepancy between the village elders and other people who were involved in the exercise? This is because the village elders were only paid Kshs400 per day and yet the other officers were being paid Kshs1,800 per day. Why were village elders paid only Kshs400? Is that fair?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this particular information was communicated to the village elders before they were recruited. In fact, I remember issuing a Ministerial Statement in this House giving all categories of people who were to be recruited and details of their remuneration. Unfortunately, the village elders are being paid the lowest figure of Kshs400. The security officers are being paid in accordance with their ranks in the Civil Service.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we know that the census exercise went on for more than four days. In fact, it went on for seven days, if not eight days. Why is the Minister paying village elders for four days and not seven days?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is a very good question. As I have said, this particular information was communicated to the village elders before they were recruited. They were informed that they were going to work for eight days and not even seven days as alluded to by the hon. Member. However, because of the budget constraints, we had to cut the budget across the line. That is how we ended up paying them for four days.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to indicate to this House the extra measures he is putting in place to make sure that the required information is received by the Ministry to facilitate faster this payment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have stated clearly why there is a delay. I have clearly pointed out that we do not have any problem with 78 districts. We have already paid census officials in those districts. For the remaining 80 districts, we do not have adequate information. We have already formed a special committee to go out there, to those districts to see that we get the information as fast as possible, so that these particular officers or elders are paid. I expect to finalize this exercise by the end of December, before I officially announce the figures of the census for this year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has just confirmed here that the village elders were to work for eight days. However, he says because of budgetary constraints, they were paid for four days. Could he confirm that they were actually being paid Kshs200 per day for eight days?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it depends how the hon. Member is calculating. These people worked for eight days and they are being paid Kshs1,600. So, I can confirm they are being paid Kshs200 per day. But I want to confirm also that we agreed with the village elders that they will be paid for the first four days for Kshs400. So, when they were being engaged, they knew the terms of employment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very unfair for the Government to take advantage of people like village elders who are not being paid a salary. If he is aware that those elders worked for eight days and they are being paid for four days, why is the Ministry taking advantage by making them work for free for four days? Is it because there is no money? Why can the Minister not bring a supplementary Budget next year with that amount inside and this Parliament will approve it instead of taking advantage of people who cannot bargain?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Member of Parliament for that question. I have clearly said that we had a budget constraint, but if the Members of Parliament can assure me that I can bring a Supplementary Estimate, so that those elders can be paid for eight days, I am ready to do so.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. With that assurance, could the Ministry go ahead and pay them now because, normally, they overspend and then bring a Supplementary Budget here later?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I cannot spend what has not been approved. So, I promise I will bring it here. If you will approve, then the elders will paid for the extra four days.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Government has been very unfair to these village elders they have actually not been paid for 46 years for their services. Even the services they rendered recently in August, up to now, they have not been paid. When is the Minister intending to pay the village elders and officers in the remaining 80 districts? He says he has not received a list from the Office of the President. How long will it take him to receive names from officers who are known from Harambee House? The census exercise was carried out in August. Surely, could he undertake that these officers and poor village elders who have worked for this Government for so many years will receive their dues, at least, before Christmas, so that they can have Christmas with their families.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know the Member of Parliament brought a Motion here on elders to be paid and it was passed. I hope that will be adopted in the next Budget. But as it is now, it is actually unfair not to pay these elders the remaining days.

I have assured Members of Parliament that I will try to make sure that they are paid. Unfortunately for security officers, this was co-ordinated by the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. This Question was received in my office on Thursday last week. So, we could not get a list of the 55,000 security officers who were involved. This was a countrywide exercise, but I promise to avail the list to the hon. Members as soon as I get it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Roads the following Questions by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that the expansion of the Nairobi–Thika Road will encroach on the entire Githurai Market, thus putting at stake the livelihoods of more than

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just would like to draw the attention of the Chair to the fact that hon. Thuo is the Leader of Government Business in this House---

Order! The Chair is conscious of what you intend to say and you have already said it, that he is the Leader of Government Business and whether it is right for the Leader of the Government Business to ask a Question. Hon. Thuo is the Chief Whip.

You could even ask how the Chair or the Speaker or Deputy Speaker can become the Chairman of House Business Committee. Parliamentary Business is strictly, by and large, Government Business. The Chair has no business chairing Parliamentary Business. We have had a unique situation. That is not to say that hon. Thuo will forego his own responsibility as the Member of Parliament for Juja Constituency. Indeed, that is what he is executing now.

Proceed, hon. Thuo!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank you for the advice. But maybe you will be interested to know that I am almost aware that at the Treasury, the status of hon. Thuo has been elevated by way of his emoluments. His status is now equal to that of a Government Minister.

That being the case, therefore, means that this is a Minister de facto . Under this Standing Order, do you believe that a Minister de facto should ask a Question in this House?

A Minister de facto for which Ministry? He is a not a defacto Minister, but the Chief Whip of the Government. Even with the changes of the Constitution and it will be reflected in the Standing Orders, hon. Thuo, for all practical purposes as well as official purposes, is the Member of Parliament for Juja Constituency. Secondly, he is the Chief whip of the Government. Chief Whips of the Government are also Members of Parliament and they have the right to ask Questions.

Proceed, Mr. Minister!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to reply. (a) The expansion of the Nairobi–Thika Road has not encroached on the entire Githurai Market. Farmers and informal traders have encroached on the road reserve and my Ministry is liaising with the local authority to ensure that they are removed to facilitate construction. (b) While I sympathize with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member, my Ministry is not responsible for securing alternative land for use as a market by the traders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am both astonished and dismayed by this particular answer. If you indulge me, on the first part of the Question that relates to putting out of business 3,000 small scale traders, I think it is very casual to wish away the problem by saying that they encroached on the road. We know that every little business in Kenya

Hon. Assistant Minister, if you feel that you cannot adequately address this issue, then I think it is only fair that you communicate within the Government itself. But if you feel that you can adequately address the Question and its concerns – you have collective responsibility – then you should proceed and do that!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be able to answer to the extent that it relates to the Ministry of Roads.

Order! Order! That is not in order! You have collective responsibility as a Government, but if you feel that you cannot adequately address this Question in your own Ministry, then refer it to the Prime Minister’s Office and communicate the same both to the Chair as well as to the hon. Questioner himself! So, under the circumstances---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Question by Mr. Thuo cuts across the three Ministries. Is the Assistant Minister in order not to refer this Question to the Prime Minister’s Office?

Order! Order! You are out of order! Hon. Assistant Minister, proceed, please!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have communication from Ruiru County Council that relates to the particular market in question, where the Ministry had requested the Council to find alternative land for the hawkers so that the construction will be done. The County Council actually confirmed and we have a letter to that effect.

However, the relocation of hawkers and many other people who have encroached on the roads is done in accordance with Government regulations.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is he in order to refer to what I have referred to as businesses as “hawkers”? I am not suggesting that hawkers are not businesses, but the connotation when you say “hawker” presupposes people who are in transit. These are permanently settled people in the area!

Actually the term “hawker” essentially refers to people who do not have one fixed place. A hawker is somebody who moves from place to place, unless you have changed the meaning of that English word.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. But I think the point that we want to put forward is that it is not the road that is encroaching on the market; it is the market that has encroached on the road reserve and we have actually written to the Municipal Council and specifically requested that, that be done. The

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the point that the people who are in the market are on the road reserve is conceded and, indeed, I did concede that point in framing my Question. However, I feel that we still need to address one issue. In a country of mass unemployment, you do not go and say: “Because you have done this, therefore, you ought not to be and to hell with your business!” I am urging him to be broader in scope and to understand that he is dealing with Kenyans, irrespective of the historical encroachment.

What is your question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very clear; my question is for him to be broader in his perspective as he responds and to consider that these are Kenyans!

That is not a question. What is your question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, will he be that broad?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not think that is a question. He is basically saying that he wants me to be broader and that is up to him to judge whether what I have said is broad enough. I think the issue of the informal traders is not specific to Githurai or to that particular road, and our policy cannot be made just for one particular place. We have a policy; that all land that belongs to the Government and is a road reserve should be cleared to give way for development. We do not have one particular policy for only one place. In this particular case, we sympathize with the people and the traders and urge the hon. Member to work with the Ministry of Local Government to find alternative land for these informal traders.

Ask your last question, Mr. Thuo!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am happy.

Next Question, hon. Mbugua!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Lands the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Can the Minister confirm that land to settle Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who were displaced during the 2007 Post-Election Violence has been identified, and if so, could he table the names of the landowners and the location of the land? (b) How much money has been budgeted in the Ministry’s current budget for purchase of the said land and when does he intend to complete this process?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have talked to my friend, hon. Mbugua, to be given a little more time. This is a very serious Question. I was compiling some of the data that he requires. I was not quite satisfied with the answers that I had been given. So, I asked for his indulgence that I answer this Question on Thursday afternoon. It is a Question by Private Notice and it is a very important Question.

Is that acceptable to you, hon. Mbugua, so that you can get, probably, a more adequate answer?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Question that touches on livelihoods and lives of people and I do agree with the Minister that we get a very comprehensive answer.

That is fair enough! The Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper on Thursday afternoon!

Is hon. Moses Lessonet, by any chance, out of the country on official parliamentary Business?

He is around!

Under the circumstances, his Question is dropped!

Is hon. Ethuro here? Is hon. Ethuro, by any chance, out of the country on official parliamentary Business?

I am made to understand that the Committee in which hon. Ethuro serves is out of the country. Under the circumstances, the Question will be put on the Order Paper until such a time that hon. Ethuro will be in a position to ask it.

asked the Minister for Education:- (a) whether he could confirm that primary schools in Suba West and Suba East divisions of Migori Constituency suffer serious understaffing due to hardship in the area; (b) whether he could table a staffing list per school in Suba West and Suba East divisions in Migori District; and, (c) when the Minister will, in conjunction with the Minister of State for Public Service, declare Suba West a hardship area so that teachers and other civil servants can be paid hardship allowance and be retained in the region.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I wish to confirm that there is a shortfall of 150 teachers in Suba East and 209 in Suba West divisions. However, the shortage is not as a result of hardship in the area. Indeed, understaffing in our schools has been a serious national problem. There are slight disparities across the regions and so Suba East and Suba West cases are not unique. This is a problem across the country. (b) A staffing list per school in Suba West and Suba East divisions of Migori Constituency is appended to the answer. The hon. Member has the list already. (c) According to the list reviewed and released recently by the Government, Migori District has not been designated as a hardship area. Teachers working in the two mentioned divisions cannot be paid hardship allowance.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I need your guidance with regard to the answer that has been given by the Assistant Minister. Last week, the same answer was given to me. When the Minister rose to answer this Question that time, he said that the answer he had was not adequate. Today, the Assistant Minister has read the same answer. What has happened?

Hon. Assistant Minister, is it true that you had asked for some more time because you felt that the answer was not adequate? Is it also true that the answer you have now is the answer you had then?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of that; at least for me.

Order, Prof. Olweny! You have a collective responsibility as a Ministry. Indeed, if it turns out that you are misleading the House, then I think you understand the consequences as per the Standing Orders. Would you wish to go and consult with your colleagues before you give such a position you cannot be categorical about right now?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, part (a) of the Question seeks to know if the Minister could confirm that the primary schools in the two divisions suffer from serious understaffing due to hardship in the area. In our answer, we have indicated that the two divisions do not fall under hardship areas which were enlisted recently by the Government.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was going to plead with the Assistant Minister to be fair to Mr. Pesa. If the first time he said that this answer was not sufficient, it is okay. We could wait so that he brings a more sufficient answer. On the face of it, part “c” of the Question seeks to know when the Minister, in conjunction with the Minister of State for Public Service, will declare Suba West a hardship area so that teachers and other civil servants can be paid hardship allowance and be retained in the region. All the Assistant Minister has done is to issue a list and state that Suba West Division has not been declared a hardship area. The Question is about when. We would not mind the Assistant Minister coming back to answer this Question next week. Let us be fair.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not going to mislead the House by saying that in conjunction with the other Ministry, we are going to enlist Suba as a hardship area. If it is a question of enlisting Suba as a hardship area, there is a Ministry that is concerned with that. The Ministry of State for Public Service offers its service across the board and not for teachers only.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister should be found to be out of order. This is because he not only comes from Nyanza Province, but he is also aware that Nyatike Constituency is classified as a hardship area. Now, the ecosystem in Nyatike is exactly the same as that one in Suba West and Suba East divisions. Is he in order to mislead the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not misleading the House. Let me read to the hon. Members the criteria that the Ministry of State for Public Service uses when classifying various parts of this country as hardship or non-hardship. If you allow me, I will read the criteria.

Order, hon. Members seated on the Front Bench! Order, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry! Could you, please, consult in low tones so that the Assistant Minister is heard?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am requesting you to allow me to read the criteria so that hon. Members can take note of it.

Proceed!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the criteria is as follows: (i) Non-availability and accessibility of food. (ii) Non-availability or limited access to portable water. (iii) Inadequate transport and communications services. (iv) Limited availability of basic social services and amenities. (v) Harsh climatic conditions.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I need your guidance. The Minister who spoke here last week was doing so on behalf of the Ministry. He stated very clearly that he was going to look for a better answer than what he had been given on that day. Today, the Assistant Minister has brought the same answer his colleague rejected before this House. Could I, please, get your guidance, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir?

If the Minister, indeed, felt that the Question was not adequately answered, and the same Ministry comes back to say that we cannot have any more adequate answers than what we have now, the Chair has no business directing them to go back and bring more adequate answers. This is the role of the Government itself.

On a point of Order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If you read the Question carefully, part (c) is asking when the Ministry will work with the partner Ministry. This is a case that is affecting the Ministry of Education. Teachers are running away from the area because of hardship and yet the Assistant Minister is avoiding to answer the Question. Is he in order to refuse to answer the Question he has been asked?

Order! Order! There is a Ministry that is mandated to determine what a hardship area is and what a hardship area is not. If the hon. Member wishes to ask a Question based on the criteria that is essentially public knowledge, and feels that, indeed, Migori Constituency has to be a hardship area, it is then for him to ask that Question to the relevant Ministry. He should not ask:” When will the Assistant Minister go and consult with the other Minister?” That, in itself, has a problem. If the Assistant Minister tells you: “As far as the other questions are concerned, that is not my business”, he has answered adequately. In this case, I am inclined to believe that he has answered the Question. If you, indeed, feel that there is more that needs to be done for Migori Constituency, put a Question to the appropriate Ministry.

Mr. Pesa, could you ask the last supplementary question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, given your ruling, I will have to wait and put another Question to the relevant Ministry.

Thank you.

Next Question, Mr. C. Kilonzo!

Is Mr. C. Kilonzo, by any chance, out of the country on parliamentary business?

asked the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation:- (a) what the current status of jigger infestation problem in Kenya is, and which areas are most affected; and, (b) what general measures, including policy, the Ministry has taken to address this problem in the country and in Emuhaya District in particular.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The jigger infestation prevalence in the country ranges from 1.6 per cent to 4 per cent, according to information from a rapid assessment study carried out recently. The main predisposing factors for jigger infestation are:- (i) poor housing conditions as the jigger flee is raised mostly in a very dusty environment; (ii) poor personal hygiene practices; and, (iii) high poverty levels.

The most affected areas in Kenya are the larger Murang’a and Nyeri districts in Central Province; Kwale and Malindi districts in Coast Province; the larger Kericho and Narok districts in Rift Valley Province; and Vihiga and Emuhaya, and the larger Kakamega District of Western Province. However, it should be noted that there are reports of isolated cases in all other parts of the country.

(b) My Ministry has put measures in place to address the problem in the country, and in Emuhaya District in particular, as follows:- In the last financial year, the Ministry undertook the following-

(i) purchased and distributed chemicals and other commodities worth Kshs10 million to all provinces in the country, for jigger control;

(ii) sprayed 90 per cent of households affected in Murang’a North, Murang’a South and Kericho Districts to reduce jigger flees.

(iii) public health officers have intensified public awareness education focused on the following areas:- (a) improved housing by smoothening walls and floor surfaces; (b) observation of high standard of personal hygiene; (c) spraying of houses and pets to kill flees; (d) use of detergents to de-infest the parasites; and,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Ministry for the comprehensive answer it has given, and for the programmes it has put in place to eradicate this problem. However, I would like to know what long-term programmes the Ministry has in place, or it contemplates to put in place, to address the jigger menace in the country and, particularly in the affected areas like Emuhaya Constituency?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you probably know, the jigger infestation problem used to be there before Independence, when the levels of poverty were very high. For quite a number of years, there have been no jiggers in Kenya until quite recently. We need to address the social determinants of disease; in other words, things like housing and poverty eradication. We already have policies in place to eradicate poverty and address the housing issue. These are the long-term policies that will prevent jigger infestation. In the short-term, we want to eliminate jiggers by spraying and applying the measures that we have stipulated, including dissemination of health education.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come from an area that has been mentioned many times in terms of the jigger problem. It is because of poor health conditions in those areas that we have the jigger problem. It is mainly because of lack of water. What is the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation, in collaboration with the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, doing to provide water in schools and areas that are affected by jiggers?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have already indicated that we must address the social determinants of disease. Some of the factors that lead to poor health are, of course, lack of water, malnutrition and improper housing. I have said that we already have policies in place to address these issues. The only way we can eliminate some of these diseases is to address the relevant issues like water, housing and eradicate poverty. Otherwise, we shall only be treating symptoms.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to interrogate this matter. I am very happy with the answer that the Assistant Minister has given us; that, in fact, the Ministry has set aside about Kshs10 million to deal with this problem. What disciplinary measures will he take against a certain medical officer – I believe it was a Provincial Medical Officer of Health – who was quoted widely by the media as having said that Ahadi Trust was whipping up public sympathy with the aim of collecting money, and that they had been paid Kshs10 million? It is clear that this money had, in fact, been provided by the Ministry. Secondly, why has the Ministry only identified Kwale and Malindi districts as areas affected by this problem in Coast Province when we know that even in the lower Tana Delta District, Garsen Constituency, this problem persists? What will he do to include Garsen Constituency in his programme?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am learning about this officer from Mr. Mungatana. I will try to investigate and take action on the officer. The few districts I have mentioned in my answer are not the only affected areas in the country. Even in my own constituency, we have patches of jigger infested areas. We are trying as a Ministry to cover the entire country and eliminate this menace.

Dr. Otichilo, last question!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what quantities of disinfectants and chemicals have been dispatched to Emuhaya District to control jiggers?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by 9th November 2009, we had sent 600 kilogrammes of cabrile (?) which is a chemical for spraying jiggers to Western Province. We sent 200 kilogrammes to Emuhaya District, 200 kilogrammes to Kakamega East District and we also sent 200 kilogrammes to the provincial stock. This gives a total of 600 kilogrammes. We have also sent 100 kilogrammes of another chemical known as Propax to Emuhaya District, 100 kilogrammes to Kakamega East District and 100 kilogrammes for the provincial stock. We also sent 2x20 litres of natural pyrethroids to Emuhaya and Kakamega East districts. The provincial stock is also 2x20 litres. We have also sent five spray pumps each, to Emuhaya and Kakamega East districts and the provincial stock.

Next Question by Mr. Fred Outa!

asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) to explain how the FAO grants to West Kano and Ahero Irrigation

Do you still intend---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I still intend to study the answers because I am not satisfied.

So, you do not want the Question to be answered today?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want the Question to be answered today.

Mr. Assistant Minister, is it true that the hon. Member just received the written response a few minutes ago?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he might have received the written response right now, but it has two sentences. The rest is a table. All he has to look at is the answer given. I think it is not fair for the Member to say that he is not prepared to ask supplementary questions which I believe is not based on what is there.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the table that the Assistant Minister has provided needs verification.

Order! Do not go into the content! Do you want to ask the Question or you want this Question---

I do not want to ask the Question because I feel he has not provided an adequate answer.

Under the circumstances, the Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon. Mr. Assistant Minister, you have to give Members of Parliament adequate time to acquaint themselves with the content of the answers so that they can adequately prosecute it!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I am so ordered, I will do exactly that.

Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek a Ministerial Statement from the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs on the situation at Kamiti Maximum Prison, following the outbreak of cholera and death in the facility.

The Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs is not in! Could a senior Minister take an undertaking on his behalf? Prof. George Saitoti, as part of your collective responsibility, when are we going to have the Ministerial Statement?

When? This is an outbreak of cholera!

Tomorrow afternoon! The Chair directs so!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I asked for a Ministerial Statement on the 11th of this month. The Chair directed that the Minister in charge of internal security gives that Statement last week on Thursday. I was away on an errand for Parliament. Today, I see the Minister is here, I do not know whether he is ready to give that Statement.

What was the subject of that Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement was on the killing along the Nairobi streets of one Njuguna Gitau and the general insecurity in the country, including the murder of very many young men, especially from the Mt. Kenya region.

Minister, are you ready with the Ministerial Statement?

If you are not ready, could you allow other Members to seek Ministerial Statements and then you will give it later?

Please, proceed!

Order! Minister, the Chair indeed did sanction you and barred you from transacting any business in here, pending your adequate explanation on your absence. That was the total absence of you and your Assistant Ministers to answer Questions last time. To the best of my recollection, you have not approached the Chair to explain yourself. You are still under sanctions! So, you are not allowed to transact any business for now.

Order! The simple tradition is that you approach the Chair privately, explain yourself adequately and the Chair decides and determines on that.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs on the following:- Can the Minister explain to the country how many copies of the Harmonized Draft Constitution have so far been distributed around the country? Secondly, how many have been produced and thirdly, what is the structure of distribution of those copies? And whether Kenyans in the grassroots are going to get these copies and when that will happen. Can he also explain when Kenyans, particularly in the area that I come from, the Tana Delta, Lamu, Malindi, and Magarini areas, will receive these copies? I am also told about Rangwe and other areas. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, actually, the nation needs them. When are we going to get the Draft Copies and what arrangements has he made and what mechanism is there to ensure that they reach the grassroots?

Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs! He is not in? The hon. Deputy Prime Minister, can you give an undertaking on that very important request?

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir; we will undertake to see if I will get the Minister to bring an answer by Tuesday next week.

For the purpose of Parliament itself, copies are available for the use of MPs in Room No.8. What is your point of order Mr. Olago Aluoch?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The issue that has been raised by Mr. Mungatana is very serious, because time is ticking away. Already, one week is gone, and Kenyans have only three weeks left; so, the point of order should be answered even tomorrow, not next week.

Mr. Deputy Prime Minister, the urgency of the matter is such that it has to be given urgent attention. When are we going to have that Ministerial Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am only trying to be practical that, I will try on Thursday, but I beg your indulgence in case the Minister needs time that he be given until Tuesday; but we will try and see if we can give it by Thursday.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Mungatana is asking for a Ministerial Statement and not for the distribution of the copies. The Statement can come as early as tomorrow.

Hon. Deputy Prime Minister, the Chair is actually convinced that you could give an undertaking even now; it is just a question of how soon you are going to distribute these copies. It is an important historical matter itself!

The Minister will be here tomorrow.

The Ministerial Statement will be available tomorrow afternoon. It is so directed.

Mr. On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek your clarification on a serious matter touching on my personal security.

Order hon. Members!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday at about 8.30 a.m., in the morning, my Personal Assistant, whose particulars are with the Clerk of the National Assembly, because he is a staff member, received a text message. He was in a matatu, coming from Kirinyaga--- He comes from hon. Karua’s constituency.

Get close to the microphone, so that everybody will be able to hear you.

Yesterday at about 8.30 a.m., in the morning, my Personal Assistant whose particulars are with the Clerk, because he is a staff member, received a text message. He was in a matatu coming from Kirinyaga--- He comes from Ms. Karua’s constituency. He said as follows: “I am in a matatu to the office and I have received a text message threatening me. I am scared. what do I do?” I immediately asked him to forward to me that text message, and that message said as follows:

“ Tell Gitobu Imanyara that he will not go far. We are closely watching him. You are too young to associate with people whose days are numbered. He thinks he can stop Muite; do you want to start counting your days also? Stop or your family will miss you.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he was in a matatu; I told him to get into the nearest taxi as soon as he got one and come to Parliament where I was in my office. He did exactly that; I drove him to CID headquarters and on the way to CID headquarters, I also telephoned the Commissioner of Police, and they both asked me to go to the CID Headquarters. I went there and made the report; I gave the telephone number where that message had come from; it was a Zain number, and we finished that at around noon. As we were going out of the CID Headquarters, and while I was waiting for my driver outside the CID Headquarters, I received no less than seven calls, all anonymous, one of them purporting to originate from the United Arab Emirates Republic, telling me

Order! Hon. Members, indeed, the Chair takes a very serious note of the lives and personal security of Members of Parliament, their families and, indeed, all Kenyans. The Chair is also conscious of the fact that hon. Imanyara has stood up on the Floor of the House on a number of occasions on similar threats. The primary role and responsibility of a Government is, first and foremost, to protect the lives and property of its own citizens. I would expect the Minister to give a very firm undertaking here and tell the House how soon he will be able to come back to the House and tell us how far he has gone in protecting the lives of Members of Parliament. Indeed, when the Chair says that, it believes that there is a serious threat to the life of a hon. Member, and goes ahead to direct the Minister responsible to give additional security, it is only fair that he goes ahead and gives that additional security.

The Chair is also conscious of the fact that we have lost Members of Parliament in the past. Indeed, the life of a Member of Parliament is as important as the lives of all of us here gathered, to lead this country in the very important role of lawmaking, as a supreme body and organ.

Hon. Minister, the Chair expects you to make a Statement right now and tell us how far you have gone and give the adequate undertaking. The Chair will expect also, adequate action on the part of your Ministry on the same.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Kwekwe Squad has resumed its work. About three weeks ago, they took away some boys from my constituency and they have never been found. Those people are well known and I just wonder why this issue cannot come to an end. The people are aware that executions are happening in my constituency. In fact, I get information every time they come to my constituency. I have even been disappearing in the City because I also fear that those people can come for me. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, why can they not know that, that formula cannot work? That thing has gone on for about three years.

You have made your point, hon. Member!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, why can the Minister not see that the formula of elimination is not working in Central Kenya and change the tactics? They can

Please! You have made your point. The Minister has given an undertaking on the Floor of the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Minister that, maybe, in the books, the Kwekwe Squad was disbanded. But its members are still operating. They are using the same Nissan they were using when the Kwekwe Squad was in place. So, police officers who were in the Kwekwe Squad are still there.

Do you know them?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They are known! This is something that is known to the people.

Under those circumstances, it would be fair for you to go to the Minister and give him the finer details of the information that he needs to have. Then, you will be in a position to stand on the Floor of the House and ask him to account for it. That is because you will have given him the information that he is saying that he does not have. Is that okay, hon. Waititu?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is something that I have even told the Commissioner of Police about, one week ago. It is something that is true. They are there everyday. It is not---

The Minister is in charge of the Ministry, including the Commissioner of Police.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will just inform him here. I can even give him the registration number of the Nissan they are using to pick people.

Fair enough! You will do that.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of the manner in which the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security is taking the matters that have just been raised by hon. Imanyara and hon. Karua, and his undertaking to get back to his officers and confirm whether or not he is being misguided, I feel that it would be for the interest of this House that he gives us a definite date when he will report to this House.

Fair enough! The Minister has given an undertaking that he is going to come back to the House on Wednesday afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security on the following issues:- I want to know if he is aware of the insecurity situation in Migori Municipality and the surrounding areas at the moment, where several people have been attacked and even lives lost in the last two weeks. What could be the reason for the rampant insecurity where people are attacked and injured in their houses, but no property is stolen? What is he doing to curb that state of affairs in order to protect the affected residents of Migori Constituency in general?

Mr. Minister, when will you issue that Ministerial Statement on Migori?

The Chair directs that it will come on Tuesday next week!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to know from the Chair, whether the Minister has since been released of his sanction. This is because other than the unique nature of the point of order that was raised by hon. Imanyara, I think this is---

The Minister approached the Chair and the Chair was convinced! Indeed, actually, the Minister had communicated and he is now allowed to transact business. Hon. Minister, could you issue the Ministerial Statement that you undertook to give?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will notice that the Minister has avoided one very key component of the request for the Ministerial Statement. That is the number of executions in and around Nairobi from January to this time. I deliberately asked about the executions which would include murder and those by the police. I would like the Minister to say when he will avail that information because he has left it out. However, with regard to what he has answered, I want to draw his attention to the fact that Luthuli Avenue is one of the busiest streets of Nairobi and during the day, in and around Nairobi, especially the business streets, he can confirm or deny the obvious; that there are plain clothed police officers around Nairobi. That is why we see victims of mob justice being rescued. The question I am asking the Minister is this: How come, on a busy street, during the day, Gitau was frog-matched by two men, then shot to death and nobody turned up either to intercept those men or to arrest them and no swoop was conducted on that street. Is it that the police were too comfortable because it was their own operation? What was the reason for that strange behavior?

We will take a few points of order and then you can respond to all of them at once.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to confirm that along Luthuli Avenue, we have CCTV cameras installed. Could he also confirm that his investigations will include establishing what was recorded on the CCTV cameras and that he intends to immediately install those cameras all over the City? Finally, I recall that subsequent to the murder of Gitau, hon. Bishop Wanjiru, Assistant Minister for Housing, complained that she has received threats that she would meet the same fate and she went to a police station. Could the Minister inform this house the enhanced security he has given to Bishop Wanjiru and her latest recruit in her church - the leader of Mungiki, Mr. Maina Njenga?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am glad the Minister has said that he has made certain leads. Could he confirm that those leads arise from the information that was gathered by Mr. Gitau who has been preparing an affidavit with full details of close to 7,000 young men from Mt. Kenya region who had been executed by an execution squad within the Kenya Police, and that the evidence was taken by the police at the murder scene?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of security should not be taken casually the way the Minister has done. Could the Minister confirm that the day Mr. Gitau died, there was an individual who recorded what was happening but has since disappeared?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I seek another clarification?

You only need to seek one clarification so that we can proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered the question I have asked. I have said that there are plain clothes police officers along every busy street and I wonder what they were doing on that day. Why was there no swoop or rapid response after the shooting of this young man? I salute the Minister for admitting that the police need reforms. When will the reforms be carried out? What is he waiting for? Could he begin by making every police officer accountable for his or her actions? Could he also begin by not accepting that every time a person is shot dead, he or she is a criminal? Could the Minister start by making the officer involved go through an inquiry? People are being killed like flies in this City! Could the Minister draw his attention to these issues?

Mr. Waititu, seek your clarification.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, everybody knows very well that the former leader of Mungiki, Mr. Maina Njenga, has publicly declared that he is saved and his followers too are saved. Could the Minister assure us that the police will not pursue the former Mungiki members who have been saved?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister is not answering the question that was asked by the hon. Member.

The Minister was not supposed to answer a question. There was no question that was asked.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he is not answering the clarification.

Order! Mr. Mbugua, you do not need to answer to a clarification, but seek it. What is the clarification?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister says they are embarking on reforms. However, we know some police officers stay in a police station for more than three years because of their godfathers. Why is this so when he is talking about reforms? What reforms is he carrying out? That was the question asked by the hon. Member.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is fair enough for hon. Mbugua to really appreciate the fact that it is only a few months we appointed a task force to carry out a survey on the areas that need to be reformed. Three weeks ago, we received the final report on the reforms that should be carried out by the Government.

I would like to ask my very good friend, hon. Mbugua, to hold his horse and, probably, ask that question in the beginning of next month.

Order! Mr. Waititu, this was not a debate. This was a Ministerial Statement that was sought by the hon. Karua. Essentially, when the Minister gives Ministerial Statement, hon. Members are supposed to seek a few clarifications on the content of the statement that he has given. Should you wish to interrogate it very broadly, then there are provisions in the Standing Orders for you to come to this House and treat it differently from the way you are treating it now. We cannot turn that into a debate now.

Hon. Karua, you are going to seek one final clarification, basically on the content of the Minister’s Statement. That is the end of it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not even wish to seek any clarification. I just want to draw your attention, Sir, that the Minister did not answer one critical question. How many people have been executed within Nairobi since January this year? That was missing from his Statement. Could he undertake to bring that information tomorrow?

There is a document that the Minister has tabled.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have looked at it. It is only indicating prominent personalities executed. I was looking for all Kenyans, not only prominent personalities. So, could he, please, give a list of all persons executed within Nairobi, since January this year? People who are not prominent are also human beings!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, considering that the former leader of

i has declared that all Mungiki members have turned to Christianity and we expect them to change, could the Minister ask the police officers not to harass former Mungiki members?

Did you seek a Ministerial Statement on the same before? Do you realise what you are asking was not captured by the Ministerial Statement that was sought by Ms. Karua?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this issue is very important in Central Province because many of our people have lost their lives in the past. The leader of

members has asked them to change and embrace Christianity as a way of living. However, the police officers are still pursuing them. Could he ask them not to pursue former Mungiki members?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in reference to the question being asked by hon. Waititu, I think it is good to appreciate one thing; when it comes to a matter of human life, the Government has an obligation to protect it. The particular that you check whether this person is disabled, or belongs to such and such religion, is immaterial. Our obligation is to ensure that we protect every life. I want to make that very clear.

Hon. Karua wants to know the people who have been executed. Let us agree one thing. It is the definition of “execution”. When it comes to the question of people who have actually been murdered, I want to say that the information I had which is contained in this particular table is that from the 1st January, to the 12th November, 2009, 76 people have been murdered. Last year, December, 2008, the number was 105, which was much higher. When you look at the same period, December, 2007, the figure was 126. I can only give you that information under the category of murder. The issue of execution is a murder, but then you need to qualify it with some evidence.

Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Finance Bill, 2009 now be read a Second Time.

As I do so, I want to thank hon. Members for the support they have continued to extend to the Government and policies that we are trying to implement. I wish to appreciate the support that members have accorded the tax proposals that we have announced during the Budget Speech this year. As I have indicated in my Budget Speech, our economy experienced three major shocks in 2008. This includes the self inflicted economic disruption following the 2007 general election. Second, the protracted drought. Third, global economic and financial crisis which have adversely affected our economy. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the current drop in the international oil price and the ongoing short rains in most parts of our country, as well as the positive signs of global economic recovery, we are now confident that the policies we are implementing will restore our economy back to a higher pre-crisis growth trajectory.

The taxation measures I proposed during this year’s Budget are, indeed, expected to expand economic opportunities and facilitate growth of the economy and ultimately reduce poverty. More specifically, the measures are intended to, among other things, promote the growth of industries and make them more competitive for more tourism and film making as a source of employment and foreign exchange earning and encourage

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to second the Finance Bill, 2009. From the onset, I wish to say that the proposals listed by the Minister for Finance will, indeed, go a long way in ensuring that the recovery that we have been expecting in the economy will move on as envisaged.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we are aware, there are various challenges that hit the country last year that have badly affected our economy. All the measures outlined will go a long way in ensuring that, that is done. In the Ministry of Roads, there are various changes that were proposed. One of them was the devolution of funds to ensure that previously, as we had done, where the Ministry of Roads sent the money directly to the District Roads Committee, we would like the devolution to be started and the money to be sent directly to the constituency so that hon. Members can have a say in the way roads are actually repaired and to ensure that the money is utilized properly. We will be introducing an amendment to this Finance Bill to ensure that, that is implemented and that the funds are available to hon. Members as soon as possible.

With those few remarks, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.

Prof. Kaloki, on behalf of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.181, I would like to take this opportunity to present to the House, the Committee’s Report on the Finance Bill, Bill No. 7, of 2009. The Members of the Committee comprise the following: Mr. Okemo, who is the Chairman and at the moment, he is away attending to some other parliamentary matters outside the country. Myself as the Vice-Chairman; hon. Midiwo, hon. Kombo, hon. Chepkitony, hon. Gaichuhie, hon. M’Mithiaru, hon. Shakeel, hon. ole Lankas, hon.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill because it has been regular in this House. Every year, we have to have a Finance Bill. That is how it should be because that process gives this House the opportunity to express views and even to advise the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance on how the House sees the financial and economic situation of the country. So, it is a welcome Bill from that point of view. We know that the services which we need and which our constituents expect must be financed. Other than in issues of emergency and other situations of similar nature, there is nothing for nothing. By nothing for nothing I mean that it is the taxpayers’ money, which they earn out of the economy, which will go towards financing the recurrent and development expenditure of this country. And even where money is borrowed in order to finance projects, that money will ultimately and finally be paid for by the taxpayer through the system of repayment of loans. So, at the end of the day, it is the taxpayer who bears the brunt of taxation. In return, he receives protection from the Government. Also, his security is assured and his properties are safeguarded except that certain inclinations in politics appear not to be recognizing these entitlements to property and life which are linked to security. Security is vital so that the economy can function to be able to produce the monies that we need to pass in this Finance Bill. The monies will go towards what Prof. Kaloki has talked about, that is, the stimulus projects; employment of the youth in projects such as the Kazi kwa Vijana ; and even provide emergency services and food that was being required because of the situation of our weather. This House does not seem to give matters of the environment priority, but I am afraid that at the end of the day, you will have to face the consequences of adverse climate change and global warming. It is time this House urged and, in fact, agreed that this area of our problems deserves the highest priority in terms of resource allocation. Without saving the environment, I doubt whether you will have any monies to

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Finance Bill, but I want to make a few observations. It is very important for this House to realise the importance of the Finance Bill that we are debating today. In simple terms, we are debating the issue of how money gets into the Consolidated Fund before it is distributed. So, indeed, this is a very important Bill. We realise the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance has outlined, in the Finance Bill, how he intends to raise funds. We know that he intends to raise funds from across the country and the entire economy. Several people are taxpayers, but they do not know. They contribute to the Consolidated Fund without their knowledge. In my earlier submissions, I suggested that it is important that we carry the whole country with us on matters of finances, so that Kenyans can appreciate what roles they are playing. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance has just outlined how the economy has been behaving. In his Budget Speech, he indicated that the economy has slumped, for the reasons he gave, from a record 7.1 per cent in 2007 to 1.7 per cent currently. It is imperative that we, as a country, realise that in order for this country to grow, we need to engage all and sundry in our goal setting and production. To this end, I want to persuade the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, and the entire Government, to find a way of engaging the whole country, so that as we hope the national productivity of this country will grow by a certain percentage, we break down that into regional goals and go even further to break it into household goals. If you set a household to grow its productivity by a given rate, and that is done across the country, you will be sure of achieving a certain growth rate that will be desirable. However, if we just throw it into the wilderness, nobody will pick it and follow it up as a goal worth pursuing. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources, who has just spoken; that, indeed, we are fond of scrambling over resources. It is important that we appreciate where those resources come from. The Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources is very important at this point in time, if we are to sustain our economy. A lot of funds are desired to go into

(Mr. Musila) Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand here to support this Bill, and at the same time congratulate the Minister for Finance for the work that he has done since he read the Budget in June. I particularly want to congratulate the Minister for the effort he has made in creating stimulus packages for the purpose of improving our economy, and particularly channeling of funds to the rural areas to address the unemployment situation of the youth. This is important and I Just urge the Minister to scan through his proposals, because so far they are merely proposals; we have not yet seen funds flowing down to the rural areas and to constituencies to carry out the Minister’s proposals on the stimulus package. Having said that I think the Minister has addressed the issue of our economy basically on employment of the youth and also in the rural areas. With respect, I think he has ignored a very important sector, which I want to advise him to very quickly move into. This is in banking. The area of banking has been left free for a long time now. Going by the practice of other countries, we are seeing that banks in other countries are

Mr. Michuki and your colleague need to listen to the Assistant Minister.

Mr. Musila)

On a point of Order! I was going to ask Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker that the Minister listens to this. It is very important for him to hear it.

(Mr. Kenyatta)

(Mr. Musila

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the tenor of the debate, would I be in order to ask that the Mover be now called upon to reply?

I do not see any objection to that. But since the Mover is not here, I will take one more. Yes, Mr. Jirongo!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, let me take this opportunity to assure the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance that all of us were impressed with the devolved budgeting that he did earlier in the year. What is important is to ensure that the constituencies tender committees are functioning. For once, we had an opportunity, as Kenyans, to deal with our taxes at the grassroots level. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I support him, there are certain issues which we feel need to be looked into. The Budget was targeting to stimulate the economy. But there are already economic ventures in this country that we feel needed to be funded and looked into, because you cannot talk of stimulating the economy and decide to let what you have go to waste. When I say this, I have in mind a few institutions of economic importance to this country that are being left to go to waste. Once such institution is Nzoia Sugar Company. I believe that if the Government wants to privatize Nzoia Sugar Company, it needs to invest in it and make it more viable. We know that this country spends a lot of foreign exchange on the importation of sugar. We also know that there are various other sugar products including bargasse, alcohol and power generation. It is high time that the Government looked into more investment in our sugar industry, so that they can compete effectively. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, over the weekend, our Presidents talked about free trade within the East African Community (EAC). We know that Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) is also coming up. Unless our industries are made competitive, they will end up closing down. The tea industry is very critical to this country. At one time, it was one of the sectors that Kenyans relied on in terms of foreign exchange. But tea factories like Mudete are going down the drain. Farmers have now decided to sell their tea to Finlay simply because whatever they deliver is taken away from them in form of paying debts. Busia

I think we had agreed that after Mr. Jirongo’s contribution, I will call the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance. I do not think that there is any objection. Therefore, Waziri, I now call upon you to reply.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. May I, once again, thank hon. Members for all the comments that they have made. As I said, all the comments have been noted and taken into account by myself and the officers present. However, let me say that the intention, not just of the tax measures that we are passing, but the intention of the Budget as a whole, is to ensure that public funds are used for the intended purposes. Indeed, it is my hope that hon. Members, through their various Committees and ordinary constituency work, will continue to keep Ministries on their toes with regard to completion of projects because there is no need to be in a position where you are giving funds and yet, those

Who was contributing last time? As I can see, this is a resumption of debate. Mr. Omingo was on the Floor. In his absence, let us have Mr. Namwamba.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Motion that was moved by hon. Magara last Thursday, 19th November, 2009. I would like to second the Motion that this House adopts the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Review of the Constitution on the Nomination of Judges of the Interim Independent Constitutional Dispute Resolution Court laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday 18th November, 2009. Before I proceed into the details of seconding this Motion, allow me to, on behalf of the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Review of the Constitution, to express our gratitude to this House for the support it has extended to the Committee in all our tasks to constitute the various organs of reforms. We have brought, before this House, names for the constitution of Committee of Experts that this House deliberated upon and adopted. That Committee, today, is in the first lane of guiding this country in our pursuit of our new Constitution. We also brought, to this House, persons for appointment to the Interim Independent Electoral Commission of Kenya which this House considered and adopted. Today, that Commission has already hit the ground running and already has, under its belt, two successfully conducted by- elections in Bomachoge and Shinyalu. We also presented to this House persons for appointment to the Interim Independent Boundaries Review Commission, persons who were also considered and approved by this House. That Commission is already undertaking its mandate of talking to the people of this country with a view of reviewing both administrative and electoral boundaries of this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, today, we present to this House persons for appointment to the last organ in this composite process - persons to be appointed to the Interim Independent Constitutional Dispute Resolution Court (IICDRC). Therefore, I want to second the Motion that this House considers the following persons for appointment as judges of the IICDRC: (i) Mr. S. N. Mukunya (ii) Ms. Violet Khadi Mavisi (iii)Ms. Scholastica Omondi (iv) Ms. Jamilla Mohamed (v) Mr. Sankale ole Kantai (vi) Mr. Mburugu M’Nkanata Kioga.

Order! Please, lower your consultations, especially you on the Front Bench!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The advertisement attracted 141 Kenyans seeking the six slots reserved for citizens. We also received five proposed names from the Panel of Eminent Personalities, and it is from that pool that the Committee proceeded to select the nominees being presented here. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also add that this is perhaps the one organ that underwent more thorough vetting than any other, because of the nature of the work that this team will be handling. This team went through a written interview that was conducted with the assistance of a team of top lawyers and legal scholars from the University of Nairobi Law School. This was an interview that was then followed by an oral interview. From that oral interview, the six citizens, plus the three international experts, we have presented here emerged. Therefore, the Committee has absolutely no doubt that we present to this House persons that qualify to sit on this interim court and we have no doubt that we have presented here the best from what we had to consider. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me stress the point that this court is a temporary. The court will be charged with the responsibility of undertaking duties that have ordinarily been handled by the High Court of Kenya, and that is considering disputes of a constitutional nature. Should this country proceed to enact a new

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I support the Motion and commend the Parliamentary Select Committee (PSC) for a very good job in steering forward the reform process. I know the PSC has been charged with a lot of task in steering the Constitutional Review process, and it has done very well despite initial teething problems. I would like to say something in relation to the last position. The Committee set a very high standard of public probity for the persons who were selected. It used internationally acceptable standards and sometimes surpassed them. As it has been indicated by Mr. Namwamba, the process was exhaustive, thorough, transparent, consultative and very professional. We urge the Judiciary to emulate what the PSC did, in future. I also thank and congratulate the PSC for observing the equity principle in gender representation again. We have a sizeable number of qualified women who have been nominated to those positions. I will not go through the

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. When I look at the faces of hon. Members here, through which I see the entire nation, I can see that this House and the nation, at large, are on a reform mood and mode. Would I be in order to persuade the Chair to call upon the Mover to respond?

The House is in agreement with that because I do not see anybody challenging that. So, I now call upon the Mover to respond.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek the indulgence of the Chair on this matter. Given the fact that the Mover of this Motion, Mr. Omingo, is not in the House, could I respond?

Yes, go ahead!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the House again for the tremendous support that it has extended to the Committee in the task that it bequeathed the Committee to put in place all the organs of reform. I have already mentioned that this is the final organ of reform that we have put in place. I thank the House and assure it that the Committee will continue to undertake the mandate of steering the whole process with commitment and dedication that we have shown this far with the full confidence that together we shall deliver on Agenda Four. With those few remarks, I beg to move.

I have been informed that this Motion has been deferred for technical reasons regarding its work with the Departmental Committee. So, it is deferred!

I understand that the Chair of this Committee is out of the country on an official business of the House in Europe. I will also defer that Motion.

Hon. Members, since I was the Leader of that Delegation and I cannot preside over the House and Move the Motion at the same time, I defer it.

I am told that there has been an agreement that this Motion should only be moved in the presence of Mr. Ojode

Hon. Members, that concludes the business on the Order Paper. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 25th November, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.

The House rose at 5.50 p.m.