Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Government of Kenya Accounts for the year 2007/2008 laid on the Table of the House today 7th December, 2010.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Higher Education, Science and Technology the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister list all the engineering courses currently offered by Egerton University whose graduates are not eligible for registration by the Engineers Registration Board of Kenya (ERB), provide a list of all the graduates of the respective courses and explain why the Joint Admissions Board (JAB) continues to admit students to those courses? (b) What steps, including inter-ministerial consultations, is the Government taking to ensure that JAB admits students only to engineering courses whose graduates are eligible for registration by the ERB? (c) What action is the Minister taking to ensure that ERB registers the graduates of the said courses, particularly the Bachelor of Industrial Engineering (BIT) to enable them qualify for engineering jobs, considering that registration with ERB is a requirement for employment?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when our children pass their Form IV examinations, the hope of the parents is that they have made a major milestone towards a better future. However, if our children are lured to do courses which are not relevant and not acceptable, then it is a cause for concern to the parents and the affected students. From the Assistant Minister’s answer, it is very clear that the curriculum being offered, especially by Egerton University with regard to those courses is deficient in terms of the requirements of the ERB. For those students who graduated before the revision of the curriculum, what will the Assistant Minister do to make them relevant to the job market? Will he take them back for further retraining? What is the Ministry prepared to do since this is not a mistake of their own making?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what Mr. Mbadi has raised is quite valid. We know that quite a number of graduates left the university and yet in the job market, the ERB does not recognise them. We are consulting the university, together with the ERB, to ensure that those engineers are given the requisite training so that they can be relevant in the job market. The consultation is on-going.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am looking at this Question in a positive way. The ERB was established many years back. What happened in the world at that time is not what happens today. Considering the fact that we intend to industrialize by 2030, if you look at a course like Bachelor of Industrial Engineering, you will find that it is very relevant to what we want to achieve in future. I would like to ask the Assistant Minister to approach the Engineers Registration Board (ERB) with a view of expanding it, so that it could accommodate some of the graduates from the colleges that are being opened today. We know initially the board was meant for electrical, mechanical and civil engineering graduates. However, we know that things are changing. I am looking at it from a perspective of changing roles and registration, so that it could accommodate more engineers who are graduating from our universities.
Order! Member for Vihiga, please, ask your question and allow the Assistant Minister to answer it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Mr. Chanzu was clear enough and I heard him. We all know that in pursuit of our grand vision, Vision 2030, we need to develop in technology and engineering. What hon. Chanzu has raised is quite
Mr. Speaker, Sir, given that the university wrote to the ERB in February and up to date the Assistant Minister is not sure of the action they took, and given that universities continues to admit students for these courses, what is he doing to make sure that once they complete their training they will be employed and that they too will be registered?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, once again, I would like to assure that House that we have done all that it takes to ensure that this curriculum is revised in accordance with the ERB. We will also make sure that the communication between the university and the ERB is improved. We will convene a meeting to ensure that the ERB expedites the work it is supposed to do. So far, it is the ERB which has not responded to the request by the Egerton University. We will make sure this is done expeditiously. NUMBER OF TRAINEES ADMITTED INTO KMTC IN 2010
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Minister for Medical Services the following question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister indicate the number of trainees admitted into the Kenya Medical Training College in 2010? (b) Could the Minister also provide a per-constituency list of students admitted into the college?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) A total of 4,480 students/trainees have been admitted into the Kenya Medical Training College for various courses commencing September, 2010. The administrative unit considered during admissions was the district of origin and not the constituency which is an electoral unit. (b) Admissions for 2010 courses were finalized in June this year. In selecting the students, the college worked with 76 districts which were in existence as at the census which was conducted in 1999. The number of students admitted from each of the 76 districts, broken down into training disciplines is hereby provided. I beg to table the list.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is extremely strange to hear from the Assistant Minister that even as recently as June this year, they did not recognize the new districts that were created by the Office of the President. We, indeed, had more than 76 by the time they did this job. Is it possible that he has also disregarded the other districts? Is it plausible that a Government Ministry can disregard what another arm of the Government is doing? This Ministry is not even part of another arm, but in the same arm of the Government!
Order! Member for Chepalungu, it is Question Time!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since this job was done in June, could we have the distribution done as per the districts that existed in June, so that we can interrogate this question properly?
Very well! Allow the Assistant Minister to answer!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the distribution was done based on the 1999 population census. The new districts which the hon. Member is talking about came into existence later on after the 1999 Census. The 2009 Census results were released on 31st August, 2010. So, it was not possible for us to consider those other districts he is talking about.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for purposes of ensuring equity in distribution, we are aware that we are now employing nurses who come from KMTC per constituency. Could the Assistant Minister consider admission of students into these colleges according to constituencies because they are now being posted per constituency?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is very valid. However, according to the guidelines which were approved by the Ministry and the Board of Directors of the KMTC, we are supposed to consider the districts. In future, we will consider the constituency as a unit.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister says in his part “b” of the Question, that the administrative unit given consideration during the admissions was the district of origin and not the constituency, which is an electoral unit. I come from Nzambani District. How many students were recruited from my district since the list you have given here does not show my district?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true Nzambani District is not on that list. As I have said clearly, we considered the original 76 districts. So, it is not possible to have Nzambani District which was created recently. However, if the hon. Member goes through the list, he will find either Machakos or Kitui district. I believe he must have come from one of these two districts.
Member for Chepalungu, ask your last question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we still have questions. However, we stand guided.
Order, Member for Chepalungu! That is not how we gauge interest from this position.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with you. I would like the Assistant Minister to tell us, based on his criteria, how come Nyeri District got 161 vacancies while Bomet District, where I come from, got only 52. What is the rationale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we distribute the positions according to the population size, regional balance and the poverty index.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has not given me the population for Nyeri and Bomet so that I can compare them, including the poverty index. I asked a simple question: Can the Assistant Minister tell us how we arrived at 52 slots for Bomet and 161 slots for Nyeri? I really need that answer.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have the figures he is asking for. However, based on the population, all the original districts are listed there.
Order, Assistant Minister! Please, resume your seat. The Member for Chepalungu is clear. He has given you two districts; Bomet and Nyeri, one district has 52 slots and the other 161 slots; how did you arrive at that difference?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is based on the population. For Diploma in Clinical Medicine, Nyeri got nine and the total is 161 and Bomet--- It is according to those who applied---
Order, Assistant Minister! You quite have not answered the question. How did you arrive at that difference? What informed your decision such that Nyeri has 161 and Bomet 52?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said it is the number of people who applied. We arrived at this figure based on the population and poverty index.
Assistant Minister, I appreciate what you are trying to do. However, it is not persuasive. Just like you yourself do not appear to be convinced. What is the population for Nyeri and what is the population for Bomet? How many applicants came from Nyeri and how many applicants came from Bomet? If you do that, then it will be easy. These hon. Members would be comfortable.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have the exact number of people who applied from Nyeri and from Bomet.
In that case, you are not prepared to take that supplementary question. I will defer this Question to Thursday afternoon. Please, come with that answer!
Next Question by Member for Kinangop! MISAPPROPRIATION OF FUNDS AT MWENDA ANDU SECONDARY SCHOOL
Mr. Speaker, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that the Principal of Mwenda Andu Secondary School in Kinangop has, in collusion with some Board Members, misappropriated Kshs.500,000 belonging to the school? (b) What action has the Government taken against the persons involved?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will recall that this Question came up and I asked for time to address it. I beg to reply. (a)Yes, I am aware that the Principal of Mwenda Andu Secondary School in Kinangop colluded with some Board of Governors members and misappropriated Kshs451, 057 and not Kshs500, 000. (b)The Ministry has recovered the Kshs451, 057 which was refunded through a direct deposit by the Principal, Mr. George Gathongo Mwangi to the Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB), Naivasha Branch on November 6th 2010. Disciplinary action has been taken against the Principal in accordance---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I be heard?
Order, hon. Members! Let us hear the Assistant Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to commend the Assistant Minister for this very honest answer and the action he has taken. We cannot continue with a PTA Chairman on the Board who has been party to this theft until 2011 when an AGM is held. Could we hold an extra-ordinary AGM to appoint a new chairman of the PTA so that we can have a clean Board?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, under the rules, the school may hold a special AGM as requested.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the action of transferring a thief to another school means that he will still go and steal from there. What specific disciplinary action is the Minister taking on this teacher and the Board of Governors?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate that concern by the hon. Member. Actually, the action we have taken is not merely to transfer the Principal from one school to another. He has been moved as an ordinary teacher, pending investigations. There has to be due process to establish his culpability. We cannot do this just overnight. That is why we have moved him as an ordinary teacher while investigations continue and if he is found guilty he will be taken to court.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister be very clear? He said in the answer that they have recovered Kshs451, 057. This was clear theft! Is the Assistant Minister allowing thieves to continue being in his Ministry? Even transferring him as an ordinary teacher is not good enough. In this country, if somebody steals a cob of maize, he can be imprisoned or killed, yet teachers are getting away with Kshs451, 057. Could the Assistant Minister tell us why this gentleman should not be imprisoned for theft?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, investigations are on-going. Further action will be taken when the investigations are concluded.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to keep on referring to investigations, yet the principal has even refunded the money? That is confession of guilt. What is this investigation that the Assistant Minister keeps on referring to when the principal has accepted and refunded the money?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a very big possibility that there is more money lost than that. So, we are doing all investigation to make sure that we arrive at the actual figure. Give us time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope the action taken by the Minister will serve as a warning to all the other principals not only in schools in Kinangop but in the whole country. Could the Minister also investigate his education office in Nyandarua which had merely recommended that the teacher only be transferred?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the investigations are not only being done by the Ministry of Education, but also by the arms of Government that are concerned with graft. So, all areas will be covered.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House that the reason this headteacher has been transferred is because of investigation when the Teachers’ Code of Regulations is very clear that when a teacher is on investigation he or she is interdicted? Could the Assistant Minister consider and ensure that innocent teachers are protected and those who actually mess up face the right consequences?
Order, Member for Mosop! Are you pursuing the point of order or asking a question?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a point of order because the procedures are very clear.
Order, Member for Mosop! Mr. Assistant Minister, just deal with the point of order. Are you misleading the House when the regulations provide otherwise?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not misleading the House because we have to investigate and find out exactly what happened. This matter just occurred. The returning of the money was on 6th, which is just a few weeks back. NON-PAYMENT OF DUES TO RETIRED TEACHERS BETWEEN 1997/2007
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that an appeal (Civil Appeal N0. 300 of 2009) filed by the Teachers’ Service Commission (TSC) against a judgment of the High Court sitting in Nakuru in 1997 (H.C.C.C.No.65 of 2006), that teachers who retired between 1997 and 2007 be paid their unpaid pension and retirement benefits, was dismissed on 12th November, 2010? (b) What urgent measures is the Minister now taking to settle the unpaid pension and retirement benefits due to the affected retired teachers?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that an appeal filed by the Teachers’ Service Commission (TSC) against a judgment of the High Court in Nakuru in 2006, that teachers who retired between 1997 and 2007 be paid their unpaid pension and retirement benefits, was dismissed on 12th November, 2010 by the Court of Appeal in Nakuru. (b) An urgent meeting was held on 30th November, 2010 between the TSC and the Treasury’s Department of Pensions. It was resolved that the 1997 schedule be implemented by adjusting the pension benefits based on the salaries of the retirees and be paid at respective dates of their retirement. The budgetary implications for the balance of lumpsum (gratuity) and the monthly pension arrears for 30,000 retired teachers are being worked out by the Director of Pensions and the report will then be submitted to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for consideration and payment approval.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for, at least, indicating to the teachers outside there that he is now concerned about their plight. I am sure the amount involved here is quite big. Could the Assistant Minister indicate the amount of money involved? I also request him to consider talking to the Deputy
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the amount involved is quite substantial. The retired teachers’ salary arrears from 1997 to 2007 alone amounts to Kshs8,215,217,388. The pension payout will be the total lumpsum paid, that is, Kshs13,204,822,875. The monthly pension to those retired teachers will total Kshs20,689,850,540. It is quite a substantial amount of money. My Ministry will put a request to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to include this in the Supplementary Estimates next year, but if it is not possible, then we shall insist that in the next Financial Year, this must be settled and done away with.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, these teachers served the country and there was an agreement between them and the Government in 1997. The Government failed to honour its part and they retired without what was due to them. Today, they live in poverty because they are not paid an adequate pension and they do not have salaries that they deserve to go home with. Could the Assistant Minister tell us how soon this is going to happen because---
Order! This is Question Time! Do not justify why you are asking the Question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us how soon this is going to happen?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that the Director of Pensions is working out the details which he will then forward to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, who will then effect the payment. From my Ministry, we can only put pressure for them to do it as fast as possible. I promise here that we are going to do our best to ensure that, that payment is done as soon as possible.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, considering that the teachers have suffered for a long time and they continue to suffer, could the Assistant Minister tell this House whether that money is going to be paid with some interest, because obviously the money should have been paid 14 years ago and it has not been paid?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is an interesting request. The courts did not give us that order of paying with interest.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have heard the Assistant Minister say that the court did not give the order that the sum be paid with interest. But he must be aware that in the judgment of the Court of Appeal, the court said that judgment is given in respect of the teachers with interest at court rates. Is it in order for the Assistant Minister to mislead the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if that is what the court said, then the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance will go by the court ruling.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with the assurance from the Assistant Minister that he will ask the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to include this in the next budgetary estimates and if he does not then it will be put in next year’s Budget, I am satisfied. SUSPENSION OF KENYA SUGAR BOARD CEO
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Agriculture the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that operations at the Kenya Sugar Board (KSB) have been paralyzed following the suspension of the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and, if so, what urgent measures is the Ministry taking to normalize operations at the Board?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware that operations of the KSB are paralysed due to the suspension of the CEO as normal business of the Board continues uninterrupted under an Acting CEO. (b)The CEO was asked to step aside to pave way for investigations by the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) on allegations of corruption and mismanagement in the Board.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to bring it to the attention of hon. Members that the Minister for Agriculture seems to be acting or either responding outside the law. The law I am referring to is the Sugar Act which, in Section 10(4), states that the CEO shall, subject to the directions of the Board, be responsible for the day to day management of the affairs of the Board, and that CEO is not there. So, if she is not there, how are the affairs of the Board being run on a day to day basis?
Order, Dr. Khlawale! You know it is Question Time and you are allowed to ask one question at a time which you have done. You cannot develop another story after the question! Madam Minister, will you please answer?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will answer the question although I have a bit to say. The CEO has been asked to step aside because there is suspicion of wrong doing. This is not unusual because, indeed, the one she replaced had been asked to step aside and she was acting for nearly two years before she was confirmed. So, what is going on is within the law.
Dr. Khalwale, nobody else appears to be interested in this Question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the CEO was suspended to pave way for the investigations, it was done in accordance with the provisions of the Act which has regulations. Those guidelines provide that the CEO should have been investigated and returned to office within two months. That is Rule No.4 of the Regulations. The CEO was suspended on 7th October, 2010. What reason does the Minister have to give as to why the CEO is being haunted by the Efficiency Monitoring Unit (EMU)? The EMU is a unit of the Government which has no business to nose into private affairs of companies like West Kenya and Butali Sugar Company where the fight is emanating from.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the suspension is in keeping with the Economic Crimes Act. As far as I know, the KACC only started their investigations the other day. The audit of two weeks the hon. Member has talked about was internal. However, the audit from the EMU recommended that we send the matter to the KACC. I would like to table the recommendations of the EMU.
I have constantly listened to these allegations in this House from the hon. Member. On 30th October, in a public rally, he promised to come here to teach me a lesson. Earlier on, Dr. Khalwale said in this House that I was denying his company a licence. Let me put it on record for the House that the matter of West Kenya and Butali Sugar companies goes back to 2004. Dr. Khalwale was in this House! When I reported in the Ministry of Agriculture in the later part---
Order, Madam Minister! I am just wondering if you are relevant to the Question before the House. West Kenya Sugar Company is not on this Question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I looked at the HANSARD that came out last Thursday and Dr. Khalwale talked about Butali Sugar Company but if you consider it thoroughly irrelevant I will leave it and simply confirm that Mrs. Mkok is suspended because the KACC is investigating her. Unless I am being asked to change the law or to say that there are laws governing--- This is a Government parastatal, by the way, and there are other people, including Ministers, who have been suspended. What is so special about this one? Why was it not raised all those years from 2004 to now?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have clearly heard the Minister say that in a public forum I threatened that I will deal with her on this issue. Is the Minister in order to say that I threatened her when all that I purported to achieve was that Butali Sugar Company be registered following a court order issued by Justice Koome in Nairobi which was served to the Minister and a subsequent one that was served to the Minister after Justice Karanja had ruled in Kisumu? Both orders directed that she licenses Butali Sugar Company. Is she in order to change this?
Order, Dr. Khalwale! Please resume your seat just for a while. You rose on a point of order and I think as I heard you and where I thought you were going was to challenge the Minister’s assertion that you stood in a political rally and said that you would come and teach her a lesson. I thought you would perhaps take issue with that as not being in order; either because it is false or whatever, but now you have gone off on a different angle all together.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister should not give the impression that this is a personal issue. Dealing with 15,000 farmers who have planted sugarcane knowing that the factory had been registered---
Order, Members! Let us hear Dr. Khalwale! Let him finish his point of order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister cannot trivialize this matter. If in the process of confronting her in this House, I end up teaching her a lesson, then it would be a lesson that would have achieved the licensing of Butali Sugar Company in the interest of the 15,000 farmers. I would like the Minister to explain why she deviates from the core issue of the two court orders and wants to hide behind a matter which she cannot prove; that we threatened her at a rally?
Order! Madam Minister, I may hear you, but as it is, I do not find what the hon. Member for Ikolomani is raising being related to the answers that you have given. So, unless you want to protract this matter unnecessarily, as far as I am concerned, it must rest there. What the Member has raised will be out of order in so far as your answer is concerned. FREQUENT WITHDRAWALS/TRANSFERS OF ELECTION PETITIONS JUDGES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs the following Question by Private Notice.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek the indulgence of the Chair in this matter. I do not have a sufficient answer to this Question at this point in time. I seek the indulgence of the Chair to answer this Question on Thursday. I have shared this with my colleague and he is agreeable, subject to the Chair’s direction.
Very well! Can we do this on Thursday? Will you be prepared on Thursday afternoon?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Thursday will be okay.
Very well. The Question is deferred to Thursday this week at 2.30 p.m.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that there are Kenyan IDPs who sought refuge in Uganda during the 2007/2008 post-election violence. (b) My Ministry, in liaison with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, is urging all those who remained in Uganda to return home. You realize that from the 640 households that fled to Uganda, already 219 have been persuaded to come back and have been settled in Kenya. The remaining persons are being urged to return and follow suit. A further group of 79 households will return to the country on 8th December, 2010, which is tomorrow. (c) My Ministry has provided Kshs37,000 for each household that returns and the same will be extended to the remaining persons, once they come back to the country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Assistant Minister for answering this Question and catering for the few IDPS he has catered for. It is very painful---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am afraid the consultations are a little loud and I cannot hear the Member as he asks his question.
Order, hon. Members! Please, lower the level of your consultations so that the Member for Molo can be heard! Member for Molo, will you, please, raise your voice?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Assistant Minister for catering for the few IDPs that he has mentioned, you will realize that these IDPs have been outside their country for over three years. It is very painful to know that these people sought refuge in Uganda to escape what was happening in Kenya. I believe that it is a cardinal obligation and duty for any Government to protect the lives and properties of its citizens. I would like to request him to liaise with the relevant Commissions and make sure that the few IDPs who are still languishing in Uganda return to Kenya. When will these IDPs return to their motherland?
Mr. Assistant Minister, although you do not have a question there, do the best that you can!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with you that I do not have any question there. He has just confirmed that we are making those efforts and we shall step up our efforts. I have said a minute ago that we are expecting a group of 79 members to come tomorrow from Uganda. We all appreciate the fact that once they are outside our soil, it is the mandate of the UNHCR. Ours is just to support them and that is exactly what we are doing.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for what the Government is doing.
The Assistant Minister has already been thanked by the Member for Molo! Ask your question!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what is he planning for this special group called the returnees, namely, the people who returned to their village and up to date, they have never been compensated or given anything?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just said, unless the Member was not listening or attentive, that for those who return, we compensate them with a sum of Kshs37,000; the same way we treat those whose houses were burnt or destroyed during the post-election violence. You will realize that there is a difference because we used to give the others Kshs25,000. The difference will cater for things like transport and a little bit of start-up capital, so that they can do some little businesses here and there. That is the support that we give.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister just give us an update of the resettlement programme that he has for those who were displaced by the Government in Mau?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that this is a substantially different Question from the one I am answering. I know what we are doing about that matter and if the Member has regularly been in Parliament, this issue has been coming up time and again. I issued a very comprehensive Statement on this matter two weeks ago. This House constituted a Committee of about 18 Members to liaise with our Ministry. For the sake of the Member’s question, we are handling the matter and we will make sure that all the IDPs will be resettled as required.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we just passed a new Constitution which provides that any Kenyan can live or own property anywhere in the country. Where will the Assistant Minister settle these IDPs who return from Uganda, considering that hon. ole Ntimama has said that no IDPs should be settled in Maasai land?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the new Constitution provides for Kenyans to settle anywhere in the country. Even the old Constitution provided the same. I will agree with the Member that there are some areas where some people are up in arms, especially where we have been trying to acquire land to resettle the IDPs. That particular matter is getting the due attention. There is a group which is negotiating with the said community in liaison with hon. ole Ntimama. The Government is giving the issue the due attention and I am very sure it will be resolved as a matter of urgency. Otherwise, there is no serious cause for alarm, other than that particular incident which is being considered very seriously.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, before these people became IDPs, they were living somewhere. Can the Assistant Minister tell us why they are not able to resettle them back where they were before?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the hon. Member that those people came from somewhere. For those who have their own places to be resettled, that is exactly what we do. However, there is a group of IDPs who used to either rent houses or reside in some particular areas, which now happen to be uninhabitable partly because either those premises have been destroyed or they feel unsafe in those particular areas. Therefore, it is only prudent for the Government to look for alternative areas of resettlement for them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while trying to appreciate the Government’s efforts in resettling the IDPs, I request the Assistant Minister to generally talk about all the IDPs and not necessarily those who are in Uganda currently. When does the Government intend to make sure that they have been resettled or they have been returned to where they came from?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, earlier on, the Government issued a statement to the effect that we would be able to complete resettling all the IDPs by the end of December. I said last week, and I will say it again. Unfortunately, it may not be feasible to meet that deadline in view of the problem that has been raised by hon. Kiuna which I concur with. However, we shall endeavour to resettle all the IDPs not later than the said deadline. We shall endeavour to resettle all the IDPs at the earliest time possible.
Next Question, Member for Gichugu!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me, first, clarify that this is the second time the Question is being asked. It is for clarifications that the Assistant Minister could not make at that time.
asked the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife:- (a) whether he is aware that the Marine Park at Malindi has been transferred to a private company; and, (b) what he is doing to ensure that the same is reverted to the Public.
Yes, I recollect! Assistant Minister, will you just deal with the parts that were left lingering?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, it is true that I did respond to the original parts of this Question on Tuesday last week. Only a few clarifications were required of me, which I now intend to provide. I was asked to table a copy of the certificate of title indicating the purchase of this piece of land, Plot No.1204, from Coast Projects Limited, and transferred to the trustees of the National Parks of Kenya on 3.7.1969. I have a document showing that the particular piece of land is public land which is now under the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS), which I would like to table. Secondly, I would like to table the lease agreement between the KWS and Kenyaku Limited, which is dated April, 2010.
Lastly, I was asked to indicate how much revenue KWS has been collecting from the different lease agreements. We have to first of all note that the mandate of KWS is protection of our wildlife resources. To do this, KWS depends on internally generated revenue which includes park entry fees, rental of accommodation facilities and leases that are given out to different companies. Other sources are money that the KWS gets from the Treasury and different donors. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the financial year 2009/2010, the internally generated revenues amounted to Kshs3.1 billion of which 88 per cent which is Kshs2.7 billion was attributed to park entry fees. Accommodation facilities contributed Kshs98.7 million, whereas leases among other sources, contributed 8 per cent of the total revenue collected, which is about Kshs301.3 million. I would also like to table a document indicating the amounts collected for different lease agreements. Most of the lease agreements that the KWS has entered into are particularly for improving tourism in the different parks, game reserves and in some of the plots they hold on behalf of the public. The KWS has entered into 78 lease agreements with different companies. The lease periods for those agreements vary from six years to 50 years. They have specific time lines when they should be lapsing. All of them are on lodges in the parks.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, I would like to indicate that of the revenue that the KWS collects, the current expenditure for the period 2009/2010 amounted to Kshs4.6 billion, resulting in an operating deficit of Kshs1.5 billion which is partly funded by remittances from the Treasury and donor funding. Thank you.
Hon. Members, I will just allow one clarification from the Questioner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to plead for a little latitude because we had not exhausted the questions on this important issue when he asked for time. The Assistant Minister has done very well and indicated that the Marine Park is earning revenue in excess of Kshs300 million per year. That is so. What he should clarify to this House regarding this plot is that more than 100 glass boats operate.
Assistant Minister, you may proceed to answer one question. Indicate which one you are answering.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to answer both questions. I want to restate what I said last week that the land under Malindi Marine National Park, which is Plot No.204/39, is intact. It has not been leased out to anyone. The particular plot that hon. Karua is pointing out is a plot which was purchased a year later by the trustees of National Parks of Kenya – Plot No.1204. It is on this plot that Malindi Marine Park Headquarters are situated. It is part of this plot that is being leased out to this private developer, who is developing it at his cost. The revenue that is generated out of it comes back to the KWS and is used for the various operations that KWS undertakes. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your latitude. This is tantamount to what you call conservation. Could the Assistant Minister inform us why the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife is objecting to the Mara Conservancy, which is apparently doing a fair job and yet, issuing licences to other conservancies? Could he confirm that there is a framework and rules? Will those rules be adhered to without fear or favour? It seems to me---
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! You have already put your question. Allow the Assistant Minister to answer it!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether I am the one who is confused. I did not really understand what the question was.
A question was put to you why you are not supporting the Mara Conservancy, and instead your are issuing licences for other conservancies.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is a different Question and you have to realize that Mara Conservancy is under the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Local Government.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Order, Member for Kisumu Town East, the Assistant Minister is entitled to make that claim.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us whether, before they issue licences to those companies, do they advertise those conservancies in the newspapers for the indigenous people to know that anyone is free to apply for them?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been informed that, indeed, this does happen.
Last question, Member for Gichugu.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with those answers.
Very well; it does not happen often.
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government:- (a) how much money has been allocated towards the construction of Kitui Bus Station and who are the contractors; (b) whether he is aware that the project has taken more than four years now and, if so, what is the cause of the delay; and (c) When the construction will be completed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Kitui Bus Station Project was awarded to Messrs Kewal Contractors for a sum of Kshs46,129,576.50. (b) The Construction commenced on 15th February, 2007. I am aware that the completion delayed for more than three years. The reason was that the cost of construction had gone up. It became clear that the contractor was unable to keep pace with the programme of works and ended up being behind schedule. After several warnings on the slow progress of the construction works, the Ministry terminated the contract on 3rd September, 2009. (c) The Ministry has now completed documentation and preparation of contract documents, advertised the job afresh and evaluation of the bids is ongoing. It is expected that upon adjudication and award, the project will be completed in the next financial year. The delay, as I said, was also as a result of inadequate funding within the Ministry.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for his attempts to answer this Question. He seems to contradict himself because in part “b” of Question, he says that he is aware that the completion was delayed by slightly more than three years. However, in the cause of the construction, it became clear that the contractor was unable to keep pace with the programme of works. Indeed, that is the same answer you gave to the Member for Kitui West, when he asked a similar Question about the Bus Stop. In his answer to part “c” of the Question, he talks of inadequate funding, whereas it is very clear that when he stopped this contractor it was because he realized he could not keep pace with works. At the time he terminated the contract, the contractor had only done 31 per cent of the work, in which effect, it means out of the Kshs46 million, he had a balance of more than Kshs31 million. Since the termination was because of the contractor’s inability to keep pace with the works, could the Minister now confirm that he has over Kshs31 million with him? How much more money has he allocated to finish this project?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to confirm that we have made provision within the coming financial year, so that it is fully catered for.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Minister was asked to tell us what happened to the balance of the amount allocated to this project. He says by the time they were terminating the construction of this bus park, the contractor had done only 31 per cent of the works. Where is the balance? That is the question. Could he confirm whether the balance is available; and if yes, how is it?
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East. You are certainly out of order because I followed the Member for Mutito. What the Minister is responding to was actually raised in the Question by the Member for Mutito. Proceed, Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying that, indeed, the amount allocated at that time was Kshs46 million. Out of this, about Kshs14 million had been paid. Therefore, there was a balance which was spent. It was not spent because the contractor was unable to keep pace and, therefore, the Ministry was not just going to release money on the basis of works not done. That was the reason behind it. Secondly, I also wanted to indicate that during that period, because of the strict financial situation in the country, the Treasury put a ceiling which forced us not to be able to spend more money. However, that notwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that this contractor was not able to perform. Upon realization, rather than dragging him on for too long, the Ministry terminated the contract on 3rd September, 2009. I would like to assure the hon. Member that we have advertised. I can table before the House details of the advertisement to show that we are seeking a fresh award to enable this Bus Park to be completed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the idea of the bus parks has been with the Ministry for quite some time. Some of these projects are in a deteriorating state. What is the Minister doing to ensure that the money that is put into these projects is utilized properly?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the overall budgetary allocation for the completion of the various bus parks or markets, we at the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Local Government have been facing a fairly difficult time because the resource allocation from the Treasury has been limited. Indeed, several local authorities that had started these projects or had intentions of starting them have been unable to proceed effectively due to lack of resources. On our part, we have rationalized to try and make sure that we undertake very few projects and have them adequately funded rather than have several projects that are poorly funded. This is something that we have seriously taken up with the Treasury in order to use the resources more efficiently.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government is aware that Kitui has become a county and this is the major bus stop of that county. Given the fact that there have been demonstrations in the town because of delay in completing this project, could he consider, maybe within a week or two, to visit the bus stop with us, the Kitui Members of Parliament to assure the locals that, indeed, he has taken measures, he has re-advertised and very soon we will have a new contractor to complete it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very glad to go and give that assurance so that the people of Kitui can know that the project will be completed. At the same time, I would like to make it very clear that even though we will be moving to the county mode of administration it does not mean that on-going projects of the Government in any given local authority will be abandoned. They will have to be completed because they still remain public projects.
asked the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports:- (a) whether he could clarify if the assorted construction equipment recently received by the Government from China was a loan or not, and if so, what are the terms of the loan; and,
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (b) The construction equipment from the Government of the People’s Republic of China to the Government of Kenya through the National Youth Service (NYS) was a concessional loan and the terms of the loan are as follows. The project amount is Kshs4.24 billion as per the time of signing the agreement, the interest rate is 2 per cent per annum, the rate applicable to management fee is at 1 per cent, rate applicable to commitment fee is at 0.75 per cent, maturity period for the facility is 240 months, grace period is 84 months and the repayment period is 156 months. Proceedings from the facility will be used exclusively for the project and a minimum of 50 per cent of the goods, technologies and services will be purchased using the proceedings from the facility. (b) The construction equipment was put to use soon after the official commissioning in January, 2010 by His Excellency, the President. Most of the construction equipment is engaged on the ongoing Hola-Garsen Road project and the Economic Stimulus Programmes (ESP) sponsored maize production projects in Bura and Hola. The remaining equipment is engaged in NYS projects while a few are on hire by private organizations and individuals.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I asked this Question, I had in mind that the NYS had several construction machines which according to me are lying idle at their headquarters and yet private contractors in our constituency are really suffering because they do not have a place to hire some of these equipment in order to do some infrastructural development in our constituencies. Could the Minister tell us when he will dispatch some of the equipment down to the districts so that other constituencies can also benefit?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no equipment that is lying idle. Most of the equipment I have just talked about has been deployed through the NYS projects. Some of the equipment is highly specialized; it is for use in disaster management and response. That is some of the equipment that is still at the NYS Headquarters because training for our technical people is still going on. On water rigs, we already have a memorandum of understanding with the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. We have already given out the rigs if you want to hire them for use. As I have said, we are still training personnel because this is modern equipment. Some of the machines are still available for hire. If you visit the NYS Headquarters, they will tell you the nearest station of the NYS that you can hire the equipment from. I think some hon. Members have already taken advantage of this and are using the equipment.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is encouraging to hear that the Government has invested in such equipment. Could the Minister consider using it to open up northern Kenyan where infrastructure is lacking? Could he consider, the way he is using them in Bura and Tana River, to use them in northern Kenya?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not considering. We already have a properly laid down programme, in consultation with the Ministry of State for Development of Northern Kenya and Other Arid Lands. We are already recruiting NYS personnel specifically in those areas to help open up infrastructure and beef up security in those areas. We have already done a joint memo with my colleague on how we will exactly execute that plan and it will go to the Cabinet.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to commend the Minister for these loans on favourable terms. I would like him to take it further in terms of the Question by Mr. Chachu Ganya. As a Committee of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) we have already engaged the NYS and we would like the same commitments he has done with Ministries to prevail so that we give priority to projects that are being undertaken by the CDF Board all over the country because the costs are fair and reasonable.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will take note of that. As I said, some hon. Members have already taken personal initiative and they are using their CDF and the roads development money in collaboration with the NYS to do these projects. However, we will have a more comprehensive and properly structured approach. I agree with him that we will also involve the CDF board on how we can go about that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was an idea which was long overdue. However, the equipment he received is not enough. The mobilization aspect of trying to get equipment from Nairobi to Nyakach is too high. Could the Government consider buying more equipment and opening some stations in some parts of northern Kenya, Nyanza and every province so that the equipment can readily be available either to private contractors, roads committees or the CDF?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said that everything has a beginning. As you are aware, this equipment was quite expensive and we have just started but the concept will be rolled out. There are some legal issues that we need to sort out with the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance as to whether we should create a revolving fund which will facilitate this service. We are still open to ideas on how best we can help the whole country by reducing the cost of carrying out this kind of activities.
Very well! Hon. Member for Nyakach, last question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, taking into account that the equipment is in Nairobi, could the Minister, therefore, consider waiving mobilization fee for those who will come from far away to come and hire the equipment from Nairobi to be taken down to their constituencies?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the hon. Member heard me well, I said that a lot of these equipment is already out in the field. What is remaining here or what you see out there is only the equipment that still requires highly specialized and trained people. Most of the machines that you are seeing there are basically for disaster response. This is whereby in the event of disasters, the National Youth Service (NYS) are now being trained to respond to that kind of issue. That is the kind of equipment you are seeing. As for the other construction equipment; the water rigs and all that, we are just waiting for the training and that will go out as well. I think once we are through with implementing this program, in future, we can look at how best to expand it.
Very well! Hon. Members, as a result of having too many Questions by Private Notice – you notice that they were six of them – we have run out of time for Ordinary Questions. So, Questions beginning from No. 512 to No. 644 are deferred until tomorrow morning and they will take priority or they will have precedence over those Questions that are supposed to otherwise appear tomorrow.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. A similar situation happened on Thursday where so many Questions were deferred in a similar manner and the Chair then ruled that they would be given priority, but they did not appear today. So, I am not sure what is going to happen to the Questions that are queuing now from Questions that have been deferred.
Any direction given such as I have given this afternoon has normally been complied with and I expect that it will be complied with. If there are any issues, you can raise them tomorrow. I know the Order Paper with Questions has not yet been prepared for tomorrow morning.
What is it, hon. Member for Gichugu?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was expecting a ruling on whether the Minister of State for Internal Security and Provincial Administration should be compelled to produce the various reports, including the Artur Brothers Report, which I had asked as Question No. 435?
Yes, indeed, I am aware of that matter. I have processed the ruling and I will deliver it tomorrow at 2.30 p.m.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am begging for your indulgence. I have something which is difficult to put off tomorrow morning. Therefore, I request that the question directed to my Ministry be deferred to Thursday afternoon. We appreciate that I was here from the beginning. It is not that I am avoiding this Question. I was here since 2.30 p.m.
Yes, indeed, I am aware that you were here even earlier than 2.30 p.m. The Question you are supposed to respond to is Question No. 512. Yes, the hon. Member for Turkana Central, of course, has been away. We have not missed you that much but---
I think you need time to acclimatize. Can we do this on Thursday afternoon?
In fact, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was rising in order to facilitate your ruling by saying that Thursday afternoon is good for the hon. Member for Turkana Central.
Very well! This Question is deferred to 2.30 p.m. on Thursday. But the rest of the Questions are deferred to tomorrow morning and they will take precedence over the ones that would otherwise have appeared.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Chachu! That communication is very clear and succinct!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports. I wish to request the Minister to explain the circumstances that led to Harambee Stars’ dismal performance in the recently concluded CECAFA Cup Tournament held in Dar es Salaam. In his Statement, I would like the Minister to address the following issues: First, what was the level of preparation by the team by way of participation in the tournament and has the Minister satisfied himself that the Kenya Football Federation (KFF) and the technical staff are adequately applying themselves to the development of soccer in the country, both at the national and club levels? Secondly, how much did the Government spend in preparing the team and sending them to Dar es Salaam, including the cost of air tickets, accommodation and allowances for the duration of the tournament? Thirdly, what was the cause of the poor performance by the team at the tournament? Fourth, what does the Minister intend to do in order to make sure that
Stars performs better in future in international matches? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can be ready on Thursday, next week, if Mr. Speaker so rules.
Yes, I so rule, because this is a very urgent national matter. We suffered national humiliation in Tanzania. So, Minister, you must come and tell us what you are doing about it. So, it is directed that, that Statement be issued on Thursday at 2.30 p.m. Mr. Kapondi! ETHNIC PROFILING AND INDISCRIMINATE SWOOPS ON MEMBERS OF THE SOMALI COMMUNITY IN EASTLEIGH AND SOUTH C
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. On the nights of 5th and 6th of December, 2010, the police carried out indiscriminate swoops targeting members of the Somali Community in Eastleigh and South C, Nairobi. In the Statement, I want the Minister to clarify the following:- (a) Whether the Government has embarked on profiling of persons of the Somali ethnic group in Eastleigh, following incidents of insecurity in the recent past. (b) The progress so far made in investigations following the incidents in Eastleigh which have precipitated the profiling security measures. (c) To clarify whether or not such profiling is not an infringement on the rights of Kenyans and blatant violation of the Constitution. (d) Whether the profiling amounts to a blanket condemnation of the entire Somali community and convicting them as guilty of the crime of exploding the device that killed the administration policeman in Eastleigh.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be ready with the Statement on Wednesday morning next week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Assistant Minister stands up to reply, he should tell this House and the country why they did not round up Parliament when Kshs80 million was stolen from the Co-operative Bank of Kenya because we are in the neighbourhood?
Mr. Assistant Minister, you have heard that. If you are able to cover it in that Statement, please do. If you are unable, then you will explain why you are unable to do so. Is it clear, Mr. Assistant Minister? Do you understand that? The Member for Turkana Central had supplemented the request for that Ministerial Statement by asking you to do a comparison between the swoop that you are carrying out in Eastleigh vis-a-viz the theft of Kshs80 million from Co-operative Bank of Kenya. Why did you not put a swoop in place? You will be able to deal with that in the Statement.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I do not wish to go back to what you have just ruled on, there is a very disturbing thing going on right now. Members of the Somali ethnic community are being rounded up every night as we are here. Could the Assistant Minister give an undertaking that this will stop?
Order, Member for Lagdera! Even as I appreciate that you are very concerned over this matter, we have actually moved from it. We cannot go back to it. We cannot do that. Maybe when the Statement comes, you may have an opportunity to intervene.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to make a Statement in response to a request made by Dr. Bonny Khalwale on Tuesday 30th November, regarding the Ministry of Local Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I wish to inform the House that no authority was granted by me to facilitate councilors to attend a private meeting in Gatundu South Constituency on 21st and 23rd November, 2010. In addition, I would like to state as follows that no council has requested for my authority to use public funds to attend the meeting referred to by the hon. Member. Secondly, councilors are not facilitated to attend any meetings within their areas of jurisdiction and in this particular case, I am referring to Thika. Thirdly, the Ministry has not rolled out a programme to deliberate on the Constitution in any region of the country. Fourth, I wish to state that I am not aware as of now, of any public money which has been used to pay bills at the Blue Post Hotel in Thika; two, to pay councilors allowances for the same meeting from 21st to 23rd November or to meet the
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government, please take note of the clarifications.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a fact that the Assistant Minister who works under Mr. Mudavadi did issue a directive to the Town Clerk to ensure that these councilors were given a night out for two days and that the bill at the Blue Post Hotel was settled. That letter is dated 19th November, 2010 and signed by hon. Lewis Nguyai on the Government letter head, whose copy I wish to table.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that the function has already taken place, that it is already public domain and in fact all the media covered it extensively, could the Minister now come clean and give us full disclosure on how much usually a councilor is paid on a night out so that this House can now work out how much money was used following this directive by your Assistant Minister? Secondly, you have said that you will take stern action against any public officer who is found to be abusing public funds. What will you do or advise the Prime Minister and the President to do regarding the Assistant Minister who abused his office and directed that that money be paid and it was paid?
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government please take your notes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am quite pleased with the answer the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government has given but I want to remind him of 2008 after the coming together of the Grand Coalition Government and his own homecoming in his upcountry home. Is it not also a fact that councilors countrywide attended your homecoming on public funds? Will you also surcharge them and how many other functions of high ranking Government officials have councilors attended on Government funds? Will you surcharge all of them and stop this practice? How much was used in your homecoming by the councilors?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the practice goes further even to party leaders. Every time they want audience, the councilors are paid for attending those political functions by the respective local authorities. What action will the Minister take to surcharge all instances where councilors were paid in these political functions?
Very well. It has to end there. I am afraid, Member for Juja, this is our practice now in the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to state here that at no time, even during my own homecoming, did I ever give any such instructions. I have never given any such instructions for a private function. I am not aware of any local authority that sought any approval from the Ministry of Local Government to say that I am coming to your homecoming and therefore, I need to be facilitated. I would not
Very well! There is another statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. ESCALATING INSECURITY IN MARSABIT
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 30th November, hon. Chachu, the Member of Parliament for North Horr rose on a point of order seeking a Ministerial Statement with regard to the escalating insecurity in Marsabit District in which seven people had been killed and a number of livestock stolen in the last two weeks. In particular, the hon. Member sought clarification on the actions taken by the Government to secure the Marsabit people and why the Government had not taken any drastic action in the intervening period to bring the culprits to book and yet Kenyans had lost their lives. I wish to reply as follows. Marsabit Central District is one of the conflict hot spots in the upper eastern region. The district is cosmopolitan; inhabited by the Rendilles, Boranas, Burgi, Gabbra, Turkana and Konso, among others. The relationship among the communities can be described as uneasy and punctuated by mistrust emanating from cattle rustling, previous conflict and competition over scarce resources and political supremacy. The district is, therefore, conflict prone and a single incident such as murder is known to spark off revenge killings and counter revenges and could lead to full scale war, spreading to the entire region which is quite unfortunate. The security situation in Marsabit between December, 2009 and April, 2010 was calm. There were no reported cases of cattle theft and banditry. However, the following incidences have raised security concern within the district. On 4th May, bandits suspected to be from Laisamis and Samburu East raided Segel Area and shot dead Diba Guyo Kubi, Abdi Huka Bonsa, both Gabbra and one Galgallo Wario, a Borana. The bandits made away with 61 heads of cattle, five sheep, two goats and one donkey. All of them were recovered by my security officers. The bandits escaped to
We will take three clarifications, starting with the Member for North Horr.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for giving a full and correct account of the incidents in Marsabit. I am sure while listening to the series of incidences where lives have been lost, you are feeling for the people of Marsabit. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Marsabit Central, Saku Constituency, is less than 2,000 square kilometers. You can basically walk from one corner of the constituency to the other. Where are our soldiers? Where are our intelligence officers? Since I asked for the Ministerial Statement last Tuesday, other lives have been lost. This has been ongoing year in, year out. Could the Assistant Minister consider putting up a permanent platoon of General Service Unit (GSU) in Marsabit Central so that for once, the people of Marsabit Central live in peace?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on February 19th 2009, I asked Mr. Ojode a Question on putting up a police post at Hulahula, Karare and Songa. I beg to read the answer that he gave me straight from the HANSARD:- “Hulahula Location is situated only seven kilometers from Marsabit, therefore, adequate patrol station for Marsabit Police Station is considered to be enough”. Mr. Speaker, Sir, since that statement was made, about eight people have been killed on that road. Hulahula has now become a place where people are scared and cannot sleep at night. Is the Assistant Minister going to build a permanent police post now that things are getting out of control? Could the Assistant Minister also honour his promise of taking illegal guns from the people of Marsabit? The people of Laisamis do not have a single gun to defend themselves. They cannot even go to graze in the places where they used to graze. Could the Assistant Minister commit to this House that lives in Marsabit will be protected by building police stations in Hulahula, Karare and Marsabit Central?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Assistant Minister for a comprehensive compilation of events. However, I think this House and the country, expect the Assistant Minister to engage in preemptive measures so that this kind of chronology of deaths and pain cannot be realized. I just want to recall that on the 10th April 2006, the entire leadership from Marsabit in this Parliament perished on a peace mission. How many lives is the Assistant Minister waiting to see lost? Does he want the entire Parliament to die so that he can act? He has had enough time from 2006 and now he is talking of December 2010, he must have put sufficient measures to prevent further deaths on that road.
Member for Samburu East, we are making that exception because you come from that area.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Ministerial Statement stated that some of the raiders who were involved in Marsabit District raid come from Samburu East. Could he tell this House what made him believe that the raiders came from Samburu East? These are our neighbours and it is my concern. Why has the Assistant Minister not covered them in the peace initiative that we have put in place to ensure that they do not participate in these raids?
Mr. Assistant Minister, you can respond to those.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must admit that this is a very grave matter. As Government, we are doing all it takes for avoid a repeat of the raids in that area. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are aware that Marsabit area is expansive. We have tried and right now, we have beefed up security by deploying the GSU personnel---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Why can you not let me finish?
Order, Assistant Minister! Let us hear that point of order and I hope it is!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member for North Horr specifically said that Marsabit where the problem exists is less than a day’s walk across. How can the Assistant Minister mislead the House that the area is expansive?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I confirmed to this House that in certain hotspot areas, we are going to have what we call patrol bases for us to preempt any incidences of insecurity. I confirmed to this House that those hotspot areas must have enough security personnel to patrol. We have managed the situation. We have so far arrested nearly 16 people. Some have been charged with murder. I must congratulate my police officers for a job well done. I will continue doing the same until January next year so that when people go for Christmas, these incidences will not happen. It is not only in Marsabit. I am going to beef up security countrywide for Kenyans to go for Christmas without any problem. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are good leads. We are going to arrest many more people engaged in cattle rustling. Sooner or later, they will enjoy the opening of security centres which will act as patrol bases.
Hon. Members, I wish to communicate to the House as follows: That Order No.9 will be deferred to tomorrow afternoon on the ground that contrary to the Minister’s expectations, pertinent amendments that have been generated under the auspices of the Minister’s Office were not concluded in time to transact this business. It is our expectation that they will be finalized by tomorrow so that this business can proceed at 2.30 p.m. Next order!
Dr. Eseli had 16 minutes remaining. Dr. Eseli is not here! I can see the Member for Gichugu is up on her feet. You may proceed!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise in support of the Motion as a Member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). I associate myself with the remarks by the mover while moving the Motion. I also want to observe that the country is in reform mood.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the PAC and all watchdog committees, it is not proper that we keep complaining year in, year out, about the failings of public servants. It is time they started to mend their ways. One of the major complaints is that officers fail to avail the accounting documents in time for audit. This is a manifestation of the culture of impunity. We should be able to have necessary punitive measures which will compel the officers to comply. Many Permanent Secretaries or Accounting officers also display lack of
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to contribute to this Motion on the Report of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) on the Government of Kenya accounts for the year 2006/2007 laid on this Table on Thursday, 25th November, 2010. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you can see, we are in the year 2010 and are discussing the Report of almost four financial years ago. This means that we still continue to discuss these reports of both the Public Investments Committee (PIC) and PAC as historical documents. This raises a major issue in Government of accountability and the need to correct wrongs in time and, therefore, speed up performance improvement in Government. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Ms. Karua has said that we are in a mood of reform in this country since the promulgation of the Constitution on 27th August, this year. These are reforms for which we have for many years struggled in this country and the fact that they have finally been enshrined in the new Constitution is
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I stand to support the Motion. I would like to state that I am a Member of the Committee. As I contribute to the Motion, I want to inform Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, who has spoken, that we are not talking about historical accounts here. For his benefit, we are basically current. This Committee has covered the audited accounts for the Government of Kenya from the year 2004 to the year 2009. We are finalising the accounts for financial year 2008/2009 and, very soon, we will start the accounts for financial year 2009/2010. So, for his information, we are very much on top of things and we are discussing a very current audit report. We are dealing with the current Accounting Officers of the various Ministries. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at this voluminous Report, you will still see a lot of wastage of public resources. There are so many incidents of rampant corruption, and this needs to be dealt with. Even now, the culture of impunity and lack of fiscal discipline is very much inherent amongst our Accounting Officers. It is time we had value for money audit, instead of the procedural audit that we do every year. We do not have a real performance audit, whereby we get real value for money; for services rendered or from goods procured. It is time we moved towards performance audit and go for value for money audit. It is very clear from this document that we still lack clear policy on recovery of Government dues from officers. I have sat in this Committee for three years now. The same audit queries keep recurring because we have no policy dealing with the particular problem of officers who have passed on, but who had not paid their dues while they were alive. We need a clear policy in this regard, so that we can clear this off our records and be able to move on. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also lack a clear policy on bailing out our ailing state corporations. While some state corporations are quickly, and conveniently, bailed out, others are left to struggle year in, year out. Most of the time, political considerations come in, instead of economic prudence. It is time that, as Government, we have a clear policy on what to do with our ailing state corporations in terms of bailing them out, while looking at the economic sense of doing so and looking at the services rendered to this nation. It is very important for Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) and the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) to implement our recommendations. We look upon them to take on board issues where we feel that there is need for further investigation so that those who committed economic crimes can be arrested and taken to court. Year in, year out, we have made recommendations, but most of them are yet to be fully implemented by the Government. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the new Constitution in place, the culture of impunity is over. It is time our officers became responsible and did what is
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me a chance to support this very important Motion on Government expenditure. Right from the onset, I want to applaud the PAC, led by hon. Khalwale, for actually having achieved a very commendable feet of ensuring that the reports of the Controller and Auditor-General on expenditure by the Government of Kenya are brought up to date. As we talk, we are discussing the Audit Report of 2007/2008, noting that only today did the Chairman of the PAC actually lay on the Table the most current Report of 2008/2009. I want to applaud them for that bit. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the major objective of reports of PAC is to ensure that financial management of monies collected from taxpayers is done prudently and in a manner that delivers value to taxpayers. Reading through the Report of this Committee, one is able to unearth very many anomalies which leave a lot to be desired; anomalies of how our Accounting Officers oversee the application of public monies. One of the things we must bring into compliance is ensuring that we have compelled, through legal mechanisms, Accounting Officers to take action on corrective measures recommended by the Committee in this Report, which we support, and which we are going to adopt, so that it does not appear like Members of Parliament, as overseers of public monies and expenditure, just come here to talk, talk and just talk. We should not use this House for adopting and making recommendations in vain. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as all the speakers before me have said, I would like to say that we are living in a different country, in a different era and in different times, when Members of the National Assembly must become effective in ensuring that efficiency is achieved through delivery of services to wananchi . When we read, in this Report, of over-expenditure by Accounting Officers of various Government Departments and Ministries without them having brought those intended over-expenditures to this House for approval, what are we supposed to make out of it? When we read in this Report of many Government departments having lived below expectation in the collection of Appropriation-In-Aid (A-In-A) falling within their various areas of expenditure, what are we supposed to make of these Accounting Officers in terms of efficiency and effectiveness? Sometimes, it appears like it is normal when officers spend public money. It does not appear like it is painful because the money appears to belong to the general public. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must not forget at any one time that public resources that are put to use in the various Government departments are usually collected from very needy people who go to shops to buy very small portions of sugar, milk, salt and other various essential commodities and thereby end up paying taxes painfully. Since they do so painfully, it is imperative that those officers who are given the honour of overseeing the usage of public resources have some due regard to where those resources come from. Time has come for us as a country to begin asking ourselves how much resources we have, and how much we can achieve with those resources. Can we begin to look into our accounting systems in terms of results and outcomes, so that even when we do budgets and continue to approve monies for various Government
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also take this opportunity to contribute to this very important Report. First, let me thank the Chairman of the Committee for the very many sittings that they have held. I know that they have conducted almost 100 sittings. This is real commitment and credible leadership provided by the Chairman of the Committee. I also take the opportunity to thank the hon. Members who were also gallant in terms of contributing to this very important Report. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I note with some frustration that the accounting officers who were called time and again to make their presentations to the Committee, at times were not compliant and non-co-operative. To some extent, they failed to provide the required evidence and documentation. That means that the Committee was impeded in terms of faster compilation of the Report. I propose, therefore, that the incompetent accounting officers must be treated in the best way possible in terms of instilling discipline and to some extent, sanctioning them. They are letting the nation down and that translates to another type of impunity. Concerning the investigating agency, I note that the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) is doing well but it is high time that it is expanded so that it can give satisfactory services to all the Ministries. Therefore, it requires more funding so that more people could be employed to serve Kenyans well. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, delay of information by the investigating agencies has also caused some delay in composing this report. Therefore, the investigating agencies must wake up and be faster so that the Committee’s objectives could be realized.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you recall, the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Finance, Mr. Kinyua, three weeks ago talked about Kshs270 billion being misappropriated and stolen by our people. I call for faster investigations on those who have really embezzled this money so that necessary action can be taken against them. These are the people who are slowing down the pace of development in this country. Proper, faster investigation and prosecution must be mounted by those investigating this menace. There will be no need of looking for external funds if we
Migingo Island is already contentious and is causing a lot of instability in some parts of this nation. Therefore, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance should not continue with this external borrowing inconsiderably. We must borrow within our economic strength and performance. This money goes according to the report for physical development. Those unnecessary developments should be avoided. We have seen some white elephants scattered in the whole nation. These are consumers of this money. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kenya Revenue Authority has been doing good work. It is important that KRA does not allow contraband goods into this country. We have seen batteries, tyres and even drugs coming through illegal entry points. It is important for the KRA to consolidate its own position. They should also pay special attention to the border points. Corruption at the Port of Mombasa is also causing a lot of uncollected revenue. This is done by businessmen who are not patriotic in terms of paying their taxes to our country. The KRA should also pay special attention in the manner it employs its own employees. This should reflect the face of this nation. They should employ qualified and competent Kenyans. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have noted that the Kenya National Examination Council (KNEC) has been putting up new offices. These offices were allocated a lot of money. This project has been running for the last 24 years. You can imagine a child that was born the last 24 years; where is that child? Married women; this is really bad. We are calling for proper audit of this very important Government institution. The money allocated to this Ministry should go to the intended use. The KNEC is a very important institution for this nation. We cannot allow that project to continue for another 24 years. Therefore, the sooner the project is completed the better. The Council spends a lot of money for rentals to some landlords. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also important that I recall that KNEC this year conducted the most efficient examination without any leakages. This is a body that needs to be strengthened and supported. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kenyans also got value for their money and invested in the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) premises. The TSC leadership needs to be appreciated for proper investment and utilization of public finances within a very short time. The TSC is now located at a very spacious accommodation. Other Government Ministries should emulate the TSC. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this country, taxation is being evaded by those who have the potential. The tax collection efforts must be redoubled, if we want to improve our economy. We cannot improve our roads, water supply and healthcare if we allowed impunity to be the key principle in Government institution.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you, first and foremost, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the report of the Public Accounts Committee. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Committee has traditionally defined oversight of Parliament and it continues to play that role. Of course, with the new Standing Orders, even the Departmental Committees are now becoming more active. But this Committee, PIC and other investigatory Committee such as the Local Authorities and Fund Accounts Committee have a critical role in terms of dealing with the Reports of the Controller and Auditor General. We, as a Parliament, after appropriating money to the Executive, need somebody to check whether that money was spent for the purposes it was intended for. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a good job. In the last Parliament, I served in this Committee and started a good tradition of doing two reports per annum. We found there was a lot of backlog. We were basically dealing with dead matter and dead people. To seek evidence from dead people, you remember Justice Kwach, during the enquiry of the late Ouko to the pathologist that he was lucky he was dealing with the dead people. That is how the Government used to get away with it. But the Committee comprises of eminent Members. The Chairman described the contribution each one of them was making to the Committee. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the bull fighter of Ikolomani has brought the same tactics of bull fighting to the parliamentary business. Unless Dr. Gilchrist too, may have problems with the animal welfare concerns, I think those same tactics are finding meaning and relevance in this Committee. I think, Dr. Khalwale is demonstrating one thing, and this is what we said in Parliament. Well, generally, it is good for people professionally aligned to a particular matter to be there, and I think the honorable Minister for Medical Services, Prof. Anyang’Nyong’o has also alluded to the same. When we sit in Committees, we are like the members of the jury. In the jury system, you do not have to be a lawyer; you are looking at other issues of public interest or public concern. Also, the skills that members bring irrespective of their professional backgrounds, can really take this matter forward. I think we are very grateful as a House that we have hon. Members under the chairmanship of Dr. Khalwale, who has been taking this business of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) forward. Public accounts and dealing with reports of people who have been misappropriating public money is not easy. If you are not strong enough; if you are not here with a mission to do a good job for Parliament--- Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you only need to know the history of PACs, even in this Parliament. There were days when PAC Members could not agree on any matter because they were beholden to interests outside Parliament. But, now, this Parliament has basically come of age and, I think, it can interrogate any matter confidently and sufficiently enough in order to send even Ministers home. In fact, now, the most insecure job is a Minister’s job. During Moi’s era, Permanent Secretaries were never permanent but now, Ministers are joining the league of not being sure whether they will have a job the next day if they did one or two funny things. In this particular Report, the Committee had 100 sittings, and you know how intensive this business is. I wish them well. The Committee has also owned up that they lacked quorum. It was a challenge because we have made more Committees and
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir for giving me the opportunity to support this Report.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me begin by thanking the Committee for their hard work in trying to catch up and bring up to date the Public Accounts Reports. I want to support this report of the Public Accounts Committee. I want to thank the Committee for doing a good job. I have been in Parliament for eight years. This is my second term. In my first term, there was a Chair to the Committee called hon. Omingo Magara who tried to do what this Committee has done. I think the last two Parliaments have really tried. The issue of public plunder is one that this country must take seriously if we want to move from a Third World to a First World country. We, as a country, are poor because of the plunder and theft of public resources. If you look at any Public Accounts Committee (PAC) report, the recommendations are never followed. The recommendations are never taken by the successive Governments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this chance also to support this Motion. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Vice-Chairman of the Committee, I want to also thank my colleagues for putting in the efforts to come up with this important Report. I want to thank also the hon. Members who have contributed in support of this Report. Indeed, it is one of those reports which ordinarily, we would expect each and every one of us to give an input into, because it reflects the performance of our Government and how public finances are spent. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having been in that Committee for the last three years, we must congratulate it for having been very hard on the Executive. We have seen the fruits of the efforts that we have put as a Committee. The Report which we are discussing now is for 2006/2007, but I am happy that in the subsequent reports which we are going to be discussing in the subsequent years, we have seen substantial reduction in the number of audit queries. This gives us some hope to some extent that the Executive has been able to put its House in order but we are still far from sorting out the mess in the Executive. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are issues which have been raised in the Report which I do not want to dwell on, in detail but they relate to inefficiencies in the Government that led to losses of public finances. One of the issues that we have come across which we have noted and I would like to emphasize it, is the failure by the Treasury at times to put in place the necessary financial systems to seal the leakages that we have in our financial system. We laud the IFMIS system that is in the Government but we want to encourage or ask the Government to continue implementing this system and train the officers. One of the queries in the books is because of misunderstanding by the officers who are supposed to manage this system. If the system was used well, for example, we would not have had issues about issuance of double imprests to Government officers. I think it is the role of the
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity to congratulate my colleagues in the Committee. I believe we have done an excellent job considering that we started from 2004 to date. Unlike those days when the PAC dealt with reports of people who had died or retired, this Report is current. What would the Government get from people who have already retired and died? This is not good. Today, we are able to call a person who has just retired or is still in office to appear before the PAC. We are beginning to deal with the accounts of 2009. To add to what Dr. Kones and the Chief Whip have said on foreign debts, it is very dangerous to commit unborn children to some debt. There is a lot of indebtedness in the country.
Hon. Kaino, you will have 18 minutes next time. Hon. Members, it is time for the interruption of business. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 8th December, at 9.00 a.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.