Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Why are Kenyan fishermen residing in Migingo Island on Lake Victoria continuously being harassed by Ugandan Security Forces? (b) Was the Joint Boundary Survey commissioned by the Kenyan and Ugandan Governments completed and, if so, provide the report to the House? (c) What steps has the Government taken to implement the resolution passed in the House urging the Government to use all possible means available to reclaim the island, including registering the dispute with the United Nations Security Council?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) It is true that Kenyan nationals who are residents on the island have sometimes reported police harassment from the Ugandan security personnel. The Government has not taken this matter lightly. We have raised the issue with our Ugandan counterparts on several occasions, the most recent one being the Kenya/Uganda Joint Border Commission’s meeting which was held in Jinja, Uganda from 15th to 19th November, 2010. The Ugandan authorities attributed these incidents to the routine transfers amongst Ugandan security personnel. The new officers who are assigned work at Migingo Island do not understand the place and do not have the necessary sensitivity. I can assure this august House that our country will not relent on this matter until a lasting solution is found. Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has not even completed answering the Question. He has only answered part “a” of the Question. Could he finish before I ask my supplementary question?

Pardon me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is sad that the Assistant Minister can only manage to give such a lazy answer to this important Question. This is the only country that keeps on referring to another country as a friendly neighbour when that country harasses its citizens. I do not understand how friendly the Ugandan Government is when it harasses the Kenyan citizens who are undertaking normal economic activities within their territory. When the communiqué was issued, which I witnessed in Uganda, we agreed and the Assistant Minister has reiterated in his answer that there would be an immediate withdrawal of all security forces from the island to create an enabling environment to carry out a joint boundary survey. Now that the Ugandan Government has refused or failed to honor this provision of the communiqué, why has the Kenyan Government not taken its security forces to Migingo Island to ensure that Kenyan citizens doing business and residing in Migingo are protected from the harassment by the Ugandan security forces?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to answer my colleague by saying that I hope he is not asking us to make a declaration of war against Uganda. The point I made earlier on was that---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not understand why the Assistant Minister should hope when my question is very clear. I have asked: Now that the Ugandan Government has refused to withdraw its security forces from Migingo Island as was agreed, why has the Kenyan Government not also maintained its security forces on Migingo Island to provide security to Kenyan citizens? I am not calling for war. I am asking why you are not providing security to Kenyan citizens on Migingo Island.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kenya is a very friendly country. The Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security would most likely answer that question, but I will state categorically that the Kenya Government has put in place mechanisms to make sure that our people are not harassed in Migingo. The forces which exist on that island are the Uganda Police, and not the military. We believe that the problem we have right now should be sorted out as soon as possible because we understand the sensitivity and complexity of this matter.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it should not have escaped the Assistant Minister’s attention that for the last few months, there have been very many high level visits of Kenyan leaders, including Members of this House, to meet President Museveni. Could he convince this House that those visits had nothing to do with undermining the sovereignty of Kenya over Migingo Island?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as far as I am concerned, there is no communication, Press statement, correspondence or otherwise which has discussed the issue of Migingo Island.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ugandan forces at Migingo Island continue to harass Kenyan fishermen. They continue to demand levies in the name of taxes. They continue to confiscate fishing gear from the same fishermen. What is the Assistant Minister doing to make sure that all that has been confiscated from those poor fishermen, including “revenue”, is returned to them?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would want to say that the Kenya Government is aware of the incidents that have been taking place. As I said, we are waiting for the Ugandan Government to invite us, since we cannot invite ourselves, so that we can go and have the next bilateral Ministerial consultative meeting, which is supposed to take place in Kampala. I can assure you that diplomacy messages are being sent over to make sure that the Migingo Island issue is sorted out once and for all. I can assure you that the Government will make sure that we achieve the results that are required without necessarily declaring war on Uganda.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister intimated that there is an allocation of some money that was done. Has this money been utilised as he said that survey work has not been done? Has the money been utilised elsewhere?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir there was a dispute as to what was required to be done, and how much money was to be spent. The money has actually not been spent. The Kenya Government has been waiting for the agreement to take effect, so that we can perform our part of the bargain and make sure that demarcation work starts and make sure that we achieve the desired results. I also said that in case we do not agree amongst ourselves, then we will have to go to the ICC to make sure that we have international arbitration to solve this matter once and for all.

Last question, hon. Mbadi!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was a bit concerned when the Assistant Minister said that we would go to the ICC. Anyway, he has corrected himself, although informally. We have been on this matter for far too long. Since this House has resolved on what the Government needs to do, and the Government has refused or failed to do it, could the Assistant Minister now tell this House categorically what steps the Government is going to take to reclaim this island once and for all, because it is in Kenya? It is in my constituency. Could he tell me when it is going to be reclaimed?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier I explained to my colleague that the issue of Migingo Island is, indeed, very sensitive, and that the Government is determined to make sure that we have mechanisms to try and deal with the challenges we are encountering. I believe that within the first few months after Parliament re-opens next

Next Question, Eng. Gumbo! LIST OF EMPLOYEES AT KENYA AIRPORTS AUTHORITY

to ask the Minister for Transport:- (a) could the Minister table in the House a list of all employees (excluding the casuals) of the Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) categorized into stations, indicating their respective names, dates of birth, dates of first employment by KAA, academic/professional qualifications, job group/rank, department and home district; (b) could the Minister also provide a comprehensive/detailed oranogram of the Kenya Airports Authority; and (c) what steps is the Minister taking to ensure equity and regional balance in employment at the Authority?

Is Eng. Gumbo not here? We will come back to this Question. Next Question, hon. Letimalo! INVASION OF ELAND DOWN FARM BY ADMINISTRATION POLICE

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Why did the Laikipia East District Commissioner, accompanied by over 400 Administration Police officers, invade Eland Down Farm on 23rd November 2010, burn houses and evict over 300 families in disregard of court orders issued by the High Court at Nyeri on 22nd November, 2010? (b) What were the circumstances under which 18- Month-old baby Lekamario was burnt during the illegal operation, and why did police officers deny the Kenya Red Cross and human rights officers entry into the farm to assist victims with medication? (c) Could the Minister withdraw the Administration Police officers stationed at the disputed land in order to avoid further harassment of the people, pending determination of the matter by the High Court?

Is the Minister not here? We will come back to this Question.

asked the Minister for Co-operative Development & Marketing:- (a) whether he is aware that since July 2010 coffee farmer SACCOs have experienced difficulties when dealing with loan defaulters; (b) when he will implement the Presidential directive to waive the arrears owed by the farmers; and, (c) what incentive the Government will offer to farmers who have painfully and with a lot of sacrifice continued to pay their loans without falling into arrears.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that I have not been given instructions on the Question. I did not stand up to answer when you called out the Question because I thought that my Minister was here. I did not get any instructions from my Minister, as his Assistant Minister.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Standing Orders are very clear that a Minister is a Minister. So, I do not understand what the Assistant Minister means when she says she has problems with another Minister. Is she in order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unless, I am given permission to go and look for the answer from the Ministry, I cannot answer this Question today. To answer hon. C. Kilonzo, Assistant Ministers assist Ministers when they are not there to answer Questions. That is what we do. So, it is unfortunate in this case that I have not gone to the office to be given the answers because I have just arrived from my constituency, Marakwet East. So, given time, I would go and look for the answers in the office. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I be given until tomorrow so that I can reach the office after the adjournment of the House today.

Madam Assistant Minister, indeed, for the purpose of the Standing Orders and the functions of this House, a Minister is defined as the President, the Prime Minister, the Vice President, Ministers and Assistant Ministers. So, you are a Minister for all practical intent and purposes for the functioning of this House. But nevertheless, now that you say that you do not have the answer, we have got a communication from your Minister, which frankly the Chair thinks is not tenable. Your Minister says that he will not be a position to answer this Question until sometimes next year. The Question itself is a property of the House. The Chair directs that this answer should be available tomorrow, whether he comes and delivers it himself or he sends you. Anything other than that, the Chair will take a stern action. It is, indeed, disorderly for a Member to fail to ask a Question or a Minister to fail to answer a Question. Next Question, Question No.562.

asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) whether he could state the formula used by Kenya Sugar Board (KSB) to pay sugar-cane farmers; and, (b) whether Mumias Sugar Company (MSC) is in compliance with the formula.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Kenya Sugar Board through sugar-cane pricing Committee is using simplified cane pricing formula to pay sugar-cane farmers as follows: That is net price, that is “x” factory minus VAT minus sugar-cane development levy times 50 per cent times 50 over tonnage of cane versus tonnage of sugar. The farmers share ratio adopted at 50 per cent, tonnage cane and tonnage sugar was set at ten, being the industry average. (b) Mumias Sugar Company is among the sugar millers with high percentage of compliance with this formula. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have held four meetings with the Sugar Pricing Committee and we have agreed. They are signing an agreement next week to confirm that they will stick to the formula. Any miller who will not pay the farmers according to the formula will be punished.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the answer is rather disappointing to the farmers of this country especially sugar-cane farmers. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would request that you rule that on 30th September, the same Ministry gave us an answer where they indicated that Mumias Sugar Company was not in compliance with the sugar pricing formula by Kshs881 million. I would want to table the HANSARD Report of the same answer so that you can check.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I, therefore, request for a ruling why a Minister has a different answer from that of 30th September. I request you to invoke Standing Order No.97, where a Member can deliberately give false information to the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not say that Mumias Sugar Company violated the formula. I said, it is among those millers whose compliance is 96 per cent. If you look at the formula and the calculation, you will find that their compliance is 96.2 per cent. If you look at the others, they range between 89 and 90 per cent. But we appointed a committee to purely audit Mumias Sugar Company because it had the biggest problem of not paying. When that Committee sat down and looked at it, they found that Mumias Sugar Company has arrears. The arrears is about Kshs295,477

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is the second time the same Assistant Minister is misleading the House. The first time he attempted to mislead the House, hon. Washiali tabled a document. In the second one he has just said that Mumias Sugar Company has a compliance of 96 per cent. Is he in order to mislead the House when, in fact, according to the documents and proceedings of a meeting held by the Cane Pricing Committee, which I want to table, held on 23rd November, 2010, Mumias Sugar Company is found to be behind compliance at 90 per cent? The best compliance is West Kenya Sugar Company at 98.5 per cent, followed by Nzoia Sugar Company at 94.6 per cent and so on. Is he in order to mislead the House to protect Mumias Sugar Company, when it is owing farmers, Kshs899 million? I wish to table documents. He is misleading the House unless he wants to protect the miller against the farmers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not protecting anybody. I do not even know the people of Mumias. I am talking about a finding by the Kenya Sugar Board. I am not disagreeing that West Kenya Sugar Company has the highest compliance percentage. It has 98.5 per cent. I have said that Mumias Sugar Company has 96 per cent compliance and they have arrears to pay to the farmers.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The point is that the Assistant Minister is saying 96 per cent compliance to please the audience. The truth is that Mumias Sugar Company is not complying at 90 per cent. So, he is raising it to 96 per cent so as to please the audience. In the process of failing to be compliant, it is costing our farmers, Kshs899 million. Is he in order to defend the company to the extent of misleading the House that it is compliance at 96? Why does he not check to confirm? That is your own Board paper and it was chaired by the former Chairman, Mr. Obado, on 23rd November?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to table this report which was done last week. The sugar price varies. It is not really constant. It could be going for Kshs4,000 per tonne and the way they calculate this pricing of cane is that they take “x” factory price minus statutory deduction, which is VAT minus sugar-cane development fund.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The issue of sugar means a lot to the economy of western Kenya. There have been a lot of contradictions---

What is your point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want guidance from you. Would I be in order to request you to rule that this matter be referred to the relevant Departmental

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has already tabled the schedule showing the rates of compliance and it is true that West Kenya is leading at 98.5 per cent, Nzoia Sugar Company at 94.6 per cent and Mumias Sugar Company at 90.6 per cent. What will the Assistant Minister do to ensure that all the millers are compliant and are at 100 per cent? How much time does he think he will utilize to make them comply because we want total compliance?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have said the pricing Committee has given every miller two weeks to comply. We are waiting for them to come up with a report in two weeks time.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of what the Assistant Minister has said in response to the supplementary question, could I be in order to ask him to go and have a meeting with his Committee members and report back to this House in two weeks time?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am ready to do so. I do not have a problem with that. It is me who requested for the meeting and we have already held three of them. I have given them two weeks to comply.

Do you want the Question to be deferred so that you can report at that time?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will bring the information with or without the Question.

Fair enough! The Chair directs that the Question appears on the Order Paper two weeks from today. That will be on a Wednesday or Thursday after two weeks. Let us move on to the next Question by Ms. Karua!

asked the Minister Lands:- (a) whether he is aware that the social hall and the stadium at Watamu New Town have been alienated and allocated to individuals thereby denying the public their use; and, (b) what steps he is taking to revert the said facilities to the public.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. I am aware that the Social Hall in Watamu was allocated to an individual in 1999. However, according to the records available, the stadium is still intact. I have directed that a restriction be placed on the title deed pending revocation and repossession of the public land.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Assistant Minister for the answer but it is neither comprehensive nor thorough. On 22nd March this year, residents

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are aware of that and that is why we have referred this matter to the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) to assist us repossess this land like we have done in other areas. We will do that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what long-term measures has the Assistant Minister taken to recover the grabbed public utility plots especially for hospitals, schools and fire stations? What long-term measures has he put in place in order to stop land grabbing in this country because most of the land grabbers even after the cancellation of the title deed rush to court to stop this?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the new Constitution, we will set up the National Land Commission. It is our responsibility to cancel title deeds so that those who have stolen can go to court because we cannot go to court.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that both the Questioner and the person answering are both serious presidential candidates who are committed to eradicating this disease of land grabbing. If, indeed, this Ministry is very committed to stop land grabbing and this document speaks for itself, why was it necessary to refer the matter to the KACC? The Ministry could have made the revocation without any further reference to any other person.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we do not just want to revoke the title deed but we also want these people to be investigated. That is why we referred the matter to the KACC. We have revoked very many title deeds and I expect this House to thank this Ministry.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what measures has the Ministry taken because county council chairmen and clerks are now disposing of public land in a hurry? To them, it seems that there is an eclipse of the law and they do not want the next measures in the law to catch up with them. What measures has the Ministry taken immediately to stop that?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, our Ministry has put an embargo on all public land so that whatever they do does not go anywhere. So, no transaction will be done until 2013.

Ms. Karua, ask the last supplementary question on the same!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now that the Assistant Minister has agreed that he needs to revoke the irregular allocation of public utility land in New Watamu Town, could he agree to go back, revoke and then report back to this House even if it means in four weeks so that we can know that the public can have back their social hall, their school, the stadium and all the other irregularly grabbed utilities?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure the hon. Member that we will revoke these title deeds immediately.

Let us move on to the next Question by Dr. Nuh!

asked the Minister for Education:- (a) whether he is aware that Arid Lands Resources Management Programme surrendered the responsibility of funding mobile schools, including Malka Mansa mobile school in Madogo Division, to the Ministry since December 2009; (b) to explain to the House the reasons why the school has not received money since January 2010 despite the Ministry having all necessary details and state when the Government will disburse money to the school; and, (c) to state how much money is owed to the school and how much is for payment of salaries.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this matter came to my attention this afternoon and it touches on a very fundamental right of the people of this Republic. When somebody does work, he should be paid. The answer supplied by my officers is totally unsatisfactory. I plead for more time so that I can bring a concrete answer tomorrow in the afternoon so that noble citizens can be paid their money.

Dr. Nuh, are you comfortable with tomorrow afternoon?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Assistant Minister has confirmed, this is about teachers who have not earned salary for the last one year. I have no problem if this issue can be addressed adequately tomorrow in the afternoon.

Fair enough! The Chair directs that the Question appears on the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon.

Hon. Ruto! He is not here?Next Question!

asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs:- (a) whether he is aware that a Kenyan national, Mr. Mohamed Swaleh Salim (holder of Passport No.A1116160), passed away while working at the Sheraton Jiddah Hotel in Saudi Arabia on 9th July 2008; and, (b) why the Ministry has not remitted the money paid by the hotel through the Kenyan Embassy in Jiddah to the family and when the money will be remitted.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I wish to confirm that I am aware that Mr. Mr. Mohamed Swaleh Salim, holder of Passport No.A1116160, passed away while working at the Sheraton Jiddah Hotel in Saudi Arabia on 9th July, 2008. (b) Following the unfortunate demise of Mr. Mohammed, the Sheraton Jiddah received a document dated 22nd July, 2008, headed “Special Power of Attorney”, by which a Mrs. Wafa Abdulrahman Said, holder of ID No.20170648 of P.O. Box 98734, Mombasa, appointed a Mr. Ahmad Mohammed Barak, holder of residence permit No.2224859492 to represent her family to collect the deceased properties and dues. The Sheraton Jiddah wrote to the Kenyan Embassy in Riyadh on 23rd July, 2008, informing that Mrs. Wafa Abdulrahman Said was the wife of the late Mohammed Salim and had been nominated by the deceased as the next of kin for dues payments. They hence forwarded the power of attorney to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs office in Jiddah for verification in order for these dues to be paid to Mr. Mubarak. The Embassy, in a response dated 26th July, 2008, informed that it did not provide approvals for any persons to collect dues unless they were the next of kin. They recommended that the deceased dues be prepared by the hotel and the same be remitted to the Mission for onward transmission to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Nairobi for the release of the funds and whatever that the deceased might have owned, to the next of kin and as it is appropriate and required by law. The Sheraton Jiddah duly responded on 18th January, 2009, conveying the deceased documents as well as a cheque with his dues which are worth Saudi Riyal 30,542. This included his final employment settlement dues as well as his insurance settlement. The same were remitted by the Embassy to the Ministry headquarters in Nairobi via the Central Bank of Kenya. The remittance was by Saudi Holland Bank, Riyadh, transaction reference No.FT09129237000007 on 9th May, 2009. The funds to the amount of US$8,144 were received by the Ministry in its deposit account. Since we received this money in the Ministry which belonged to the late Mohammed Salim, no beneficiary of the deceased estate has approached us for the money. The Ministry is unaware of any person who may have an interest. We are making a request that anybody who may know this individual and has been provided for with letters of administration of his estate to collect the cheque because it is available.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Assistant Minister for a very long and detailed answer. Every single sentence of his answer is true. However,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will guarantee my colleague that as soon as we receive information from the Kadhis Court, we will forward the cheque, through the Attorney-General’s office, for onward transmission to the individuals who are supposed to be bequeathed this money.

Mr.Yakub, are you satisfied with that answer?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am.

asked the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation:- (a) whether he could provide a list of all the gazetted and ungazzetted dispensaries in Masinga Constituency; (b) why the newly recruited nurses under the Economic Stimulus Programme were not posted to the gazetted dispensaries without nurses; and, (c) When the Ministry will post a nurse to every dispensary.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The following are the 26 gazetted dispensaries in Masinga Constituency:- Masinga Health Centre, Kivaa Health Centre, Mukusa Dispensary, Ngechani Dispensary, Katulye Dispensary, Kikumini Dispensary, Kangode, Ikatini, Ekalakala, Mutesya--- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether I should read the entire list because I have already given the Member the list.

Could you table that list? It is not just for the Member alone!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will table it as soon as I finish reading the answer. A total of four dispensaries have not been gazetted, which were built by the community through the Constituencies Development Fund. These are Nzukini, Mukuyuni, Ndokeleni and Kanywoni dispensaries. (b) The 20 Economic Stimulus Programme nurses have been fairly deployed as follows:- Kithyoko Dispensary – two, Kitundumini – one, Gakongo - one, Ekalakala - one, Masinga Health Centre - two, Kikumini - two, Muthesya - one, Ndithini - one,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I thank the Assistant Minister for the answer. However, four dispensaries are missing on his list. I do not know whether they have been gazetted or not. Could he tell us the status of these dispensaries? These are Kiatine, Kikule, Katothya and Ndovoini dispensaries. Could he tell us the status of these dispensaries?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are three dispensaries that are not operational but are gazetted. These are Kaewa, Kyatimini and Katothya dispensaries. The Ministry has already advertised for the posts of about 1,050 Kenya Community Enrolled Nurses and ten Nursing Officers, three per constituency. We believe that we should operationalize them as soon as we get these nurses. There will be 15 nurses per constituency.

Hon. Mbai, can you ask the last supplementary question on the same?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he has mentioned three out of the four dispensaries that I have mentioned. What of the other one; that is Kikule Dispensary?

Could you answer that one, Mr. Assistant Minister?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will find out about that dispensary, because this is the list that I was given by the Medical Officer of Health (MoH) in Masinga. I will find out where this dispensary is.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister give us the time within which he is going to post nurses to the dispensaries which do not have nurses?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have already answered that question; that we are actually employing 15 nurses per constituency this financial year and that, that issue will be addressed when we employ them.

That is fair enough! Next Question by Mr. Ochieng!

asked the Minister for Finance: (a) to explain why the Central Bank of Kenya is frequently purchasing foreign currency; (b) whether he could confirm or deny that the above practice is one way of manipulating the value of the Kenya shilling; and

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to beg for your indulgence to answer this Question next week. This is because, originally, we had received the answer for only parts “a” and “b”, and the other part, which is part “c” only came the other day and we have not had time to raise enough information. I have discussed with the hon. Member if we can be able to answer the Question on Tuesday next week. Thank you.

I do not have a problem with that. We have discussed this and I quite agree.

Are you sure you would want to discuss a Question as critical as the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) in the public domain? You realize that the CBK and the printing of money is a national security matter. Nonetheless, the Chair directs that this Question be deferred to next week and advises that you have further consultation – both the Leader of Government Business or the Prime Minister’s Office, for that matter and the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance – so that this is cleared out.

asked the Minister of State for Defence: (a) whether he is aware that Mr. Samuel Munga Kariuki, who rescued two persons from drowning in Chinga Dam in Othaya Constituency, was not recruited during the recently concluded armed forces recruitment exercise despite an earlier commitment by the Central Provincial Commissioner to consider him; and, (b) whether he could consider recruiting him in the next recruitment exercise, in view of his demonstrated courage and determination.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) It is true that Mr. Samuel Munga Kariuki, who is alleged to have rescued two persons from drowning in Chinga Dam, Othaya Constituency, on an unknown date and time, was not recruited into the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) during the recently concluded recruitment exercise, according to our record. However, the Ministry of State for Defence was not aware of any arrangement or agreement to have Mr. Samuel Munga Kariuki recruited into the KDF since we were not privy to the alleged earlier commitment by the Central Provincial Commissioner on the matter. Suffice to say that the military has well defined rules and procedures for carrying out recruitment exercises countrywide. This negates external influence whatsoever at all levels while, at the same time, promoting equal opportunity for all Kenyan citizens.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me thank the Assistant Minister for that answer. This young man was not “alleged” to have saved two people. He actually did exactly that. When he saw some people drowning, he removed his clothes and jumped into the water, swam across 50 meters and came up with the first person. As if that was not enough, he went back into the dam and came out with another person. He would have gone back for the third time were it not that he got tired. This act should be commended and the young man should be recognized by the Government. If the young man presents himself in the next recruitment drive and he qualifies, will he be recruited into the armed forces?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do commend Mr. Munga Kariuki for his act of sacrifice to save other people’s lives. But saving people’s lives is not a qualification to be recruited into the KDF. So, I would like to advise the young man to present himself during the next recruitment, but on condition that he meets all the requirements as per our procedures and regulations.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. He did not answer my question. I asked him, will this young man be recruited if he qualifies? That is my question.

Order, hon. Warugongo! Indeed, he has answered that question. The Assistant Minister has told you that if the young man qualifies or if he meets the requirements, he will be recruited. The Assistant Minister has answered. Could you ask the last question on the same?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have another question. Thank you.

That is fair enough!

Let us go back to Questions by Private Notice. Next Question, Eng. Gumbo! LIST OF EMPLOYEES AT KENYA AIRPORTS AUTHORITY

to ask the Minister for Transport:-

Is Eng. Gumbo out of the Chambers today on any official parliamentary business inside or outside the country? The Question is dropped!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Why did the Laikipia East District Commissioner, accompanied by over 400 Administration Police officers, invade Eland Down Farm on 23rd November 2010, burn houses and evict over 300 families in disregard of court orders issued by the High Court at Nyeri on 22nd November, 2010? (b) Could the Minister explain the circumstances under which 18- month-old Baby Lekamario was burnt during the illegal operation and why did police officers deny the Kenya Red Cross and Human Rights officers entry to the farm to assist victims with medication? (c) Could the Minister withdraw the Administration Police Officers stationed at the disputed land in order to avoid further harassment of the people, pending determination of the matter by the High Court?

Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security? Leader of Government Business, the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security is not in the House to answer Questions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, both the Minister and Assistant Minister are actually out. I happen to know that Prof. George Saitoti is representing the President at the Great Lakes Summit, which is taking place in Lusaka about this time. Mr. Orwa Ojode and Mr. Lesrima, I think they are probably not within town. We will catch up with them. If the Question could be deferred, we will have it dealt with tomorrow afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is the fourth time that this Question is appearing on the Order Paper. The Assistant Minister has been taking us round in circles, saying that we should table documents. The last time the Question was deferred on Thursday, he requested that we table a certified copy of the original court order, which

The Chair realizes that the Leader of Government Business cannot answer on behalf of the Minister. Nonetheless, could you give an undertaking to the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to give a very firm undertaking, because the passion with which the hon. Member for Samburu East has put this Question, is very clear. I want him to rest assured that we will have to deal with this matter. I had originally said that, with your indulgence, it can be handled tomorrow afternoon, so that we can be absolutely sure that the Ministers are available to answer the Question. It could actually be put in for Thursday afternoon, it being understood that it could very well be the day when we will discuss other important business. If the Ministers will not be here by Thursday afternoon, I will personally deal with this Question.

Mr. Vice-President, if what the hon. Member says is true, the Government is breaking the law. The court order is here, and the Legal Department of Parliament has said that it is authentic. If you have your forces still in the ranch then they should be cleared from it. There is a problem here. Can you give an undertaking that you will give a directive that they be removed so as to respect the law?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I give that undertaking. But as I said, if the Ministers are not around on Thursday afternoon, either myself or Dr. Sally Kosgei will deal with this matter. I want the hon. Member to rest assured that we are serious in this particular matter of our undertaking. I want to seriously seek your indulgence.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will remember that this Question has been coming to the House on a daily basis. The issue at hand, as was said by Mr. Ojode, was that the order presented to the Chair then was from River Road. If the Vice-President can confirm that, that court order is genuine, could he then undertake to remove the police from the ground without waiting to come to the House on Thursday to answer this Question? Could he come and confirm to the House what he will have done on Thursday?

Hon. Members, this is a law-making body, and the least the Government and Members of Parliament can do is to respect the law. There are two orders here. There is one which was issued on the 22nd of November by the High Court in Nyeri. Another one was issued on 24th November, 2010. The one of 22nd November says: “An order for the status quo to be maintained is hereby granted until 24th November, when the case shall be mentioned”. The order for 24th November states as follows: “The plaintiffs’ advocate and the second defendant to liaise with the second defendant to identity and ensure that the squatters in occupation or grazing on the site plan are not evicted nor harassed until this suit is heard and determined”. If, indeed, it is true that there are members of security forces who are harassing Kenyan squatters on the ranch, then it is the Government that is breaking the law. The Chair would be very happy and comfortable if the Vice-President, who is the Leader of Government Business, can say that he will direct that the orders given by the court be respected until the matter is heard.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, talking to you now and addressing the House as an advocate of the High Court, there are obviously several issues that arise out of the communication you have just read. First of all, was this order served? I cannot answer that question right now. Was it served on the Government side? I also heard you say “until 24th November”. We are now on the 14th of December. Were these orders extended? These are issues that I cannot deal with right now. I do undertake that on Thursday, if the Ministers will not be here, I will personally handle this Question.

This matter was on the Floor of the House way earlier than this, when the Assistant Minister contested the authenticity of the order. As a matter of fact, the HANSARD will bear me out. The Assistant Minister said that the order could have been made in River Road. If, indeed, it has now been authenticated, that is something else that, under our Standing Orders, might lead to some sanctions. What do you have to say, Mr. Letimalo? Have these orders been extended?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a copy here showing that both the DC, Laikipia East, and the AP commandant were served on the dates shown. I had to bring that copy from the High Court to prove that it is a certified copy of the original.

Could you table them before the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also have a photograph of the child who was burnt when the police officers were torching houses. It is as sad as that. It is my request that the police be withdrawn from that land.

Indeed, this order has been served on both the District Commissioner and the Administration Police Commandant, Laikipia, and they have signed it. In accordance with our Standing Orders this is admissible. It was served on the

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, much obliged.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we dealt with this matter and agreed that it would be in the Order Paper tomorrow afternoon. I hope that this time round, there will be no games because farmers are really anxious and waiting for an answer.

Order! Mr. Kathuri, the Chair has also given direction on the same. Where is Isaac Ruto? Is he out of the Chamber on official parliamentary business? Indeed, he is a member of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs which is holding a meeting outside the precincts of Parliament. Under those circumstances, the Chair directs that this Question appears on the Order Paper on Thursday afternoon. Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Prime Minister, as the Supervisor of Government, on why the police brutally dispersed a rally organized by Saboti MP, Mr. Wamalwa, on Monday, 13th December at the Kamukunji Grounds. In the Statement, I want him to clarify the following:- (a) Has the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, which ensures the freedom of assembly and expression been suspended?

That is for the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. In his absence, could we have the Leader of Government Business, hon. Vice-President?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have heard hon. Musikari Kombo. I am sure that the information will be expeditiously conveyed to the Right Honourable Prime Minister. Indeed, he may want to deal with it as part of the Prime Minister’s Time tomorrow.

It is so directed. The Prime Minister will deal with the issue tomorrow in the afternoon. The same should be communicated to the Prime Minister’s Office. KILLING OF MR. OPIYO BY ADMINISTRATION POLICE OFFICER

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. A 25 year old businessman by the name Martin Opiyo from Kisumu East District, Nyando Constituency, Kisumu County, was recently robbed, shot and killed by a rogue administrative police officer in Turkana North District. Fortunately, the residents helped to arrest the man and handed him over to the police. I seek a Statement from the Minister explaining the steps taken by his Ministry to ensure that the culprit is brought to book. The Minister should also state how the Government will compensate the bereaved family and how soon the compensation will be done considering that the deceased was the breadwinner to his family. The Minister should also explain the action that the Government is taking to ensure that this trend of killings by police officers is brought to an end and sanity is restored to the Force. Lastly, what immediate measures is the Government taking to help the bereaved family to transport the remains of the deceased to his ancestral land soon?

The same undertaking should be done by the Leader of Government Business.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I sympathize with the tragedy that hon. Outa has referred to, I advise him to file a Question by Private Notice. However, that, notwithstanding, I hope that the matter can be dealt with this Thursday because of its nature. If the House was to adjourn, and I am not anticipating debate on the Motion of Adjournment, it seems as if the family would suffer seriously. So, we will do the best that we can.

It is so directed.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I have been told that the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs has requested for the deferment of this Bill since there are some consultations they want to make. I was asked by Mr. Speaker to agree with them although, as a Ministry, we were ready to proceed with the Bill as it is. However, there is a request by the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

How long will the consultations take?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, as a Ministry, we are ready. I do not know how long they will take. I understand that the Committee Members of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs are in a meeting.

Therefore, I will defer the Bill until later on and we can fix a time when it can come.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended- (a) in the proposed paragraph (e) by inserting a new subparagraph immediately after the proposed paragraph (iv) as follows- (v) two persons appointed by the Minister who shall possess such knowledge and experience as the Minister considers beneficial to the Board from amongst producers and trade unionists whilst giving consideration to gender balance; (b) renumbering the proposed subparagraph (v) as subparagraph (vi).

Dr. Kones, also has an amendment on Clause 4.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I do not know what happens in such circumstances because the amendments are more or less similar.

In that case, why do you not withdraw your proposed amendment?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, they are more or less similar but mine has a few additional provisions. We want to make provisions for organizations of farmers to be represented.

What is your proposed amendment?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move-----. The idea behind this is that there is a slight improvement in that we also want to include farmers organizations in the Tea Board of Kenya (TBK).

The effect of your proposal is to amend the amendment which has just been carried, is that so? Clause 4 has already been amended!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I thought you were going to give me a chance to move the amendment so that we could discuss it!

The right time you should have said it was when I called the Minister. You should have indicated to the Chair that-- -

But you told me to sit down and wait for the Minister.

Madam Minister, what do you have to say to his proposal?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, the proposal that we brought has already been carried. This matter was debated and the next amendment that is sought now will fundamentally alter the one which has just been passed.

I do agree. Dr. Kones, that will be the position in view of the House having carried the amendment. I will treat it as withdrawn and go to Clause 5. Dr. Kones, do you have an amendment to Clause 5? Sorry, it has been pointed out to me that Dr. Kones has several amendments, and not just one, to Clause 4 and he is not making that clear. We have just dealt with the first one. Hon. Members, if you look at page 1097 of the Order Paper the Minister’s amendment relates to (e); so, (f), (g) and (h) are different. So, we can deal with them. Dr. Kones, you can propose the amendments to (f) onwards.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in paragraph (a)- (a) in the proposed paragraph (a) by deleting the expression “paragraph (e)(i),(ii), (iii) or (iv) and substituting therefor the expression “paragraph (h)”. (b) by deleting the proposed paragraph (e) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph- (e) two members to represent smallholder tea growers elected by the directors of tea factories at a meeting convened by the Minister and appointed by the Minister, one each representing the two tea growing regions as set out in the First Schedule; (f) one member to represent plantation tea growers elected by the directors of plantation tea growers at a meeting convened by the Minister and appointed by the Minister; (g) two members to represent farmers’ organizations; and (h) three persons appointed by the Minister through a competitive process who possess knowledge and experience in- (i) agriculture; (ii) finance; or (iii) marketing. As I explained, the idea is that we want to increase the number of people who have professional experience in the various fields to the TBK, and at the same time give farmers a chance to be represented on the Board through their organization.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I disagree because the Member’s concern is already taken care of by the proposed

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I oppose the amendment. One of the reasons is that I am looking at it and seeing (g) of the proposed amendment which reads:- “Two members to represent farmers’ organizations”; Which farmers’ organizations are these? All the farmers are already represented under Clause 4(e) which provides:- “(i) Two persons nominated by factory organizations to represent small tea producers”; (ii) one person nominated by plantation tea producer organizations”; (iii) one person nominated by registered auction organizers. (iv) one person nominated by registered tea packers; (v) two persons nominated by the Minister” Who are these farmers’ organizations? Can you bring coffee farmers to rule the tea industry? Can you bring horticulture farmers to rule the tea industry? I would want to urge my colleague to abandon this amendment. It is misplaced and the things that are being proposed have already been taken care of. It will introduce confusion. I beg to oppose.

Dr. Kones, do you have anything to say?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, the representation of small scale tea producers referred to by Ms. Karua, are actually directors of factories who do not necessarily represent the farmers. They represent interests of the factories. The proposed (g), which I am talking about, is to cater for farmers who at the moment seem to be playing a background role in the management of the industry. I do not agree with the Minister when she says that I am giving more powers to the Minister, because I have not changed the spirit of what is in the amendment. So, the idea here is that these three people we are talking about will bring in professionalism. These are people who do not necessarily have interest in this sector. We want them to also run the---

Dr. Kones, just explain to me how different that is from the amendment moved by the Minister, where two persons appointed by the Minister shall posses such knowledge and experience as the Minister considers beneficial to the Board.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, that is almost the same as (h) only that we are increasing the number to three in my proposal. What is fairly new is (g),

I refer you to Clause 4(v), which reads:- “Two person nominated by the Minister who posses such knowledge and experience that the Minister considers beneficial to the Board” Do you want that number increased to three?

Yes, I want that incresed to three, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir.

That is in relation to (h) but (g) is taken care of.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, (g) is not taken care of. It is different, because under this one, farmers will directly get their representatives into the Board.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I believe the Minister has brought a very comprehensive amendment that takes care of this and in following through, even the hon. Member himself, you can see from the body language that he is agreeing. I am not quite sure whether he has been taken care of but, because we are legislating a law for the country, let us be very careful that we do not come up with a law that, in itself, is conflicting at this late hour. I would like to urge the hon. Member to withdraw his amendment so that we, first of all, go with what is very clear and sure. There is no harm, at some subsequent point, to bring the amendment later on when we have seen the impact on the entire Bill. Right now, we might be doing some patch work and then we end up with a law that is good in some areas and conflicting in others. There is something very positive that we have within the amendment brought by the Minister are holistic. I would like to appeal to the hon. Member--- We see his concerns but when we are passing a law and we bring within it reference to farmers organizations, it could even be coffee farmers or any farmer. It could be pyrethrum farmers and they represent the Tea Board. Let us be very clear on what kind of amendment we are bringing and because of that, perhaps, at this point we could as well just urge the hon. Member to withdraw it and we go with the Minister’s amendment.

What does the Committee say?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I believe these are issues which could have been adequately canvassed at the Committee stage. From the look of things, these are very serious amendments and they affect a very big industry. We would, therefore, persuade the hon. Member to reconsider his position so that if he is still aggrieved at this point, he can still come back in future and pose further amendments. As of now, as I see it, we cannot comprehensively go through each and every concern here at this eleventh hour. I would go by the Ministry’s amendment because of those reasons I have stated.

I will let the House decide!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I have just listened to the Chairman of the Committee and he has said that the amendments are really weighty and he is suggesting that there is another way out; that some of these issues can be addressed. Let me ask the Committee or the House to then give me an indication on how that can be done and then we can move this process forward to that point.

I think that is not an issue we can canvass at this stage. I will let the House decide this issue!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be deleted and substituted with the following:- 5. Section 3A of the principal Act is amended- (a) in sub-section (1) by deleting the expression “(b) and (c)” appearing after the words “appointed under paragraphs” and substituting therefor “(b), (c) and (d)” and (b) deleting sub-section (3) and substituting therefor the following- (3) The chairman and the members of the Board to whom this section applies shall hold office for a period of three years and shall be eligible for re-appointment for one further term of three years.

Have you referred to the Committee to see whether you would like to deal with all of them in---

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, that is what I had said initially. If the Committee can accept that we look at all of them at once, then I can---

Mr. Mututho, would you take that option; to look at all these proposed amendments as a Committee and, if necessary, take the amendments as---

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, yes, for any avoidance of doubt, we have had a meeting with the hon. Member. We have given that undertaking as a Committee that we will deal with the Minister--- Let it pass as it is; these amendments, and if there are areas of serious concern, like hon. Members have expressed, they will come to the Committee, we shall canvass and call all these hon. Members and then get

I would like to hear from the Minister because I asked Dr. Kones. Is that proposal acceptable to you?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir.

Dr. Kones, the Minister is in agreement with the proposal from the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Co-operatives. So in view of that, are you prepared to withdraw your amendments so that they can all be looked at?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I am in agreement!

Madam Minister, bear in mind that Dr. Kone’s proposal has been withdrawn.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting the proposed subsection (3) and substituting therefor the following- (3) The ad valorem levy collected under subsection (2) shall be apportioned as follows- (a) fifty per cent shall be applied by the Board in the manner provided in section 19; (b) forty per cent shall be remitted directly to the Tea Research Foundation of Kenya; and (c) ten per cent shall be used for the development of infrastructure for the tea industry.

Let me just get it from Dr. Kones that just like the other proposals, you are also withdrawing these proposals to add new Clause 7A, B, C, 19, a New Schedule and a new Second Schedule. This is just to confirm! For the record, I take it that you have also withdrawn these ones!

Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Tea (Amendment) Bill and its approval thereof with amendments.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Tea (Amendment) Bill and approved the same with amendments.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.

(Mr. Kimunya) seconded.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Tea (Amendment) Bill be now read a Third Time.

(Mr. Kimunya) seconded.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is to thank the Minister for bringing this Bill and also hon. Kones because it was the pressure of his Tea Bill, which got the Government to act with speed. I want to very shortly point out that this is only phase one of the reform of the tea sector. We have the Tea Development Authority (TDA) which brings the small scale farmers together. This Bill will regulate and improve governance in the tea sector. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Minister and Members of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives for the reforms taking place in the tea sector. This is a sector that is doing very well. Farmers are energised and I believe this will go a long way. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me take this opportunity to recognise the effort by hon. Kones and his understanding of the proposal by the Committee that we make progress and leave room for adjustments and consideration of his amendments. I really wish to record our appreciation for that effort.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to congratulate the Minister for responding very fast to challenges by Dr. Kones. I also wish to thank both of them for their understanding and coming up together with this Bill which will greatly help the tea farmers. Having said that, I would like to urge the Minister to put her foot firmly on the ground in the tea industry, particularly the new inventions, where they want to act as bankers and things like that. She should capture the entire event within that industry to

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I take this opportunity to thank the Minister for this very timely Bill that has come to the House. One clear thing that has come out is that tea hawking in this country is outlawed. Tea hawkers are now warned to look for alternative business because the law will catch up with them. With those few remarks, I fully support the new Bill.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to congratulate the Minister for Agriculture for these amendments which are good for the farmers. I also want to recognise the efforts of hon. Kones in this Bill. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, since we all know the tea farmers are suffering, I urge the Minister to look into ways and means of assisting them, so that they can do proper husbandry in the tea industry. We want to see this crop assist our farmers. Where I come from, we grow nothing but tea and our farmers suffering. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to join my colleagues in congratulating the Minister, the Departmental Committee chaired by hon. Mututho, and also Dr. Kones for work being initiated in reforming the tea sector. I also want to request the Minister, if the same can be extended to the Coffee farmers. Kiambu County, where I come from is a huge producer of tea and coffee. I hope the same reforms will follow. With that I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to thank the Ministry for the Bill. I also want to agree with my colleagues that this industry requires some reorganization. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, what I was doing was not about competition on who can do better than the other. It is really about the drive to assist the farmers who feel that they are not getting proper returns from their crops. I want to thank the Committee for giving that window and accepting that much as we have passed this Bill, we have not concluded what we need to do. We will still bring in those few other amendments, which deep in my heart, I still believe we need them, so that we can have a vibrant tea sector.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we live and learn. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Members for engaging seriously on this Bill, which is very important for a lot of people and for a large part of our economy. I want to thank Members of the Departmental Committee on Agricultural, Livestock and Co-operatives for their advice. They are very informed about all areas of agriculture. They advise constantly and we value their advice. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as you gave me only one minute, I want to spend that saying two things. One; we do not take for granted the amendments brought by

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Government of Kenya accounts for the Year 2007/2008 laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 7th December, 2010. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do this on behalf of the Public Accounts Committee and pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.181(3). It is, therefore, my pleasure and privilege to present the Report of the Committee on the Government expenditure for the 2007/2008 Financial Year. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to point out that it is only last week when I moved debate on the PAC Report on the accounts of the Government of Kenya for the financial year 2006/2007. The Membership of the Committee I cited in the Committee’ Report on the accounts for 2006/2007 remains the same, which I used to work on the current Report. The Members of the Committee include me as the Chairman; Hon. (Dr.) Julius Kones, MP, Vice-Chairman; Hon. Martha Karua, MP; Hon. (Pastor) Daniel Muoki, MP; Hon. Charles Onyancha, MP; Hon. Alex Mwiru, MP; Hon. Boaz Kaino, MP; Hon. Francis Ganya Chachu, MP; Hon. (Dr.) Nuh Nassir Abdi, MP; Hon. David Ngugi, MP, and Hon. Edick Anyanga, MP. As I said earlier, since this Report comes up soon after the one we passed last week, I will not go into similar details about the general observations, because the same general observations contained in the previous Report are in this Report. May I just highlight the fact that in the general observations, we still found that even with regard to the accounts for the period under review, there had been inadequate preparation and failure to avail documentary evidence in time for audit review. In this regard, we have recommended that Accounting Officers should ensure that accounts are well prepared, and that in the likely event of anomalies, corrective action should be taken and documentary evidence availed in time for audit review to forestall unnecessary audit queries. We have also proposed that punitive action be taken against officers who fail to ensure compliance to this particular recommendation. Further to that, we have recommended that the Government’s investigatory agencies should liaise with

Hon. Members, please, could you lower your consultations so that we hear the hon. Member’s contribution?

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I very well understand why they are making noise at that corner. The anxiety because of tomorrow has started building up. You know that tomorrow is a big day for this country. When our Committee was going through the activities of the Ministries, we also found another very open case of theft at Wilson Airport. Laptops worth Kshs64.3 million were bought and delivered at the depot of Wilson Airport. However, after that, the laptops found their way out of the place. So, there is this kind of treachery whereby

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to second this Motion. From the outset, I would like to bring to the attention of the House that through our oversight role as Parliament, this is one of the reports that this House should take very seriously. This is because the audited accounts of a whole financial year for the Government performance is being reported to this House. If there are any allegations of funds being channeled towards the wrong direction, misappropriation and monies that were not utilised in the right way, this House has to take it very seriously and follow it to the letter. Hon. Members are very concerned when issues of boundaries are raised and this House becomes full but when we deliberate the Public Accounts Committee report, you can barely notice the full House. In seconding the Motion, I would also like to run through a few issues that were of great concern to the Committee. As ably articulated by the Chairman, I would like to say that under-collection and under-expenditure cuts across all the Ministries. It has

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. First, I want to commend this Departmental Committee for making the effort and producing this kind of report on the accounts for 2007/2008. However, I stand because of some of the remarks contained in this Report in respect to the Ministry of Public Works. The impression given is one of condemnation. The Ministry of Public Works has been condemned wholesale. It has been accused of causing delays in the procurement of various services. It has been accused of inflating costs. Generally, it has been accused for failure in the performance of certain contracts. The Ministry has also been condemned for not being accountable and professional in the way it delivers services. This is as issue of great concern to me. The role of the Ministry of Public Works has been misunderstood grossly in making this report. The role of the Ministry, especially in the light of the procurement and disposal of goods, is very specific. Its role is to advise Government departments and Ministries. Contracts are entered into between the user Ministries and the contractors. The role of the Ministry of Public Works is merely advisory. We keep a register of contractors and the responsibility for identifying the contractors lies with the user Ministries. The role of the Ministry is to provide specifications and standards in respect of materials. Our role is to ensure that safety standards are maintained, so that projects and buildings that are constructed conform to safety standards and are safe for use by the general public.

Bi. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nimesimama kuunga mkono Hoja hii ambayo imewasilishwa hapa na Kamati ya Bunge inayohusika na hesabu ya pesa za Serikali. Ni jambo la kuhuzunisha kuwa kila mwaka ni lazima hesabu ya Serikali ikosolewe. Hii ni kwa sababu maofisa wa Serikali wamekataa katakata kuajibika na kufanya kazi yao kulingana na sheria za nchi hii. Waziri wa Ujenzi wa Umma amejaribu sana kutetea Wizara yake. Hata hivyo, ukweli ni kuwa maofisa wake wamezembea kazi. Ikiwa kazi inahitajika kutekelezwa, wao hawaitendi. Wakati wanapotenda kazi hiyo, kuna ulanguzi wa hali ya juu. Ni aibu kuona wao wanabana kila kitu mifukoni. Maofisa hawa wanapotoa kandarasi, mara nyingi wao huongeza bei ili wapate pesa zao. Ukweli ni kuwa ikiwa maofisa hawa wanaweza kuwa waaminifu kwa kazi yao, basi kandarasi hizo zinaweza kufanyika kwa bei nafuu. Mara nyingi, utaona ya kwamba hawazingatii vipimo ambavyo vimependekezwa na Serikali. Mhe. Dr. Nuh amesema ya kwamba katika karandarasi hizi, sisi kama Wakenya hatupati value for money . Ukitazama pesa ambazo zinatumika kutekeleza mradi fulani, utaona ya kwamba pesa nyingi za Serikali hupunjwa na maofisa wake. Katiba inahitaji kila ofisa wa Serikali ahakikishe kuwa utendaji kazi ni wa hali ya juu. Ni sikitiko kubwa kuona Idara mbili za Serikali kutoa gharama tofauti kuhusu ujenzi wa darasa moja. Kwa mfano, katika eneo langu la Wundanyi, Wizara ya Elimu na Wizara ya Ujenzi wa Umma hutofautiana sana kuhusu bei ya ujenzi wa darasa moja. Wizara ya Elimu hushikilia kuwa ujenzi wa darasa moja hugharimu Kshs750,000. Wizara ya Utendaji Kazi ama Wizara ya Ujenzi inasema kuwa darasa hilo lijengwe kwa Kshs1.2 milioni. Ukweli uko wapi? Haya ndio matatizo unayoyakuta kila wakati yanakumba nchi hii, na tukiendelea hivyo, hatutaenda popote. Hela ambazo zinapatiwa maofisa wa Serikali wakati wanaenda safari ama likizo ama kwa uwajibikaji katika kazi za umma, unakuta mara nyingi hawazirudishi na inatakikana akirudi kutoka safari, muda wa masaa 48, awe ametoa hesabu kamili ya kuonyesha kuwa “Nilipewa fedha za umma kiasi fulani, nimeenda safari na nimezitumia hivi na hivi na nimerudi na kiasi hiki; ama zimeisha.” Unakuta kuwa wengi wamezitumia fedha hizi kujenga majumba yao na hakuna lolote linalofanywa na maofisa wakuu wa Serikali.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also take the opportunity to make my contribution to this very important Report. Firstly, let me thank the leadership and the Chair of the Committee for the manner he has led the Committee, not forgetting that a few days ago, he was making another Report on 2005/2006 in this House. The diligence exhibited by this Committee is really commendable. I also wish to thank the hon. Members of this Committee for their commitment in serving in this Committee and in assisting in the production of this Report. I would, therefore, echo my total appreciation for the entire document. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also note that the Government agents also co-operated in the production of the documents that were required to facilitate the compilation of this Report, not forgetting the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) and even other Government departments. Their preparation is also noted. This should be the way forward if we need to come up with credible reports and good services to our people. Nevertheless, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I note that the accounting officers were not compliant when they were called upon to produce documentary evidence required by the Committee. The accounting officers must realize that they are employees of the Kenyan people. They get their wages or salaries from the taxpayer and, therefore, it is important that they be dedicated in their duties. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I note that some goods were missing at the Port of Mombasa and nobody was ready to account for these goods. The custom value of these disappearing goods amounted to Kshs679,446,383. In modern Kenya, we cannot allow or continue to be losing money in this manner - goods expected or intended for this country or even for the neighboring countries disappearing at the Port of Mombasa – this is real shame to those people charged with this responsibility. This is tantamount to spoiling or tarnishing the good image of this country. Therefore, I would call for speedier investigations as to the missing of these goods and culprits must be held and prosecuted in order to stem this vice.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to join my Chairman and Members of this Committee in first of all, appreciating the work done by the Committee, and in supporting the Motion. As we said last week in the other Report of 2006/07--- I want to correct the Member for Lari: the report we discussed last week was for the year 2006/07 and not for 2005/06. This report is for 2007/08. There are still a number of leakages within Ministries that cause loss of public funds. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we want to request that the recommendations made in this report be taken seriously by the Executive arm of the Government. I will give very few examples on areas where this Committee has been making recommendations and it appears like no action has been taken. We have been recommending in our earlier reports that there are some dormant funds which exist within the Government; this Government has continued pledging that the funds will be wound up in a short while. In the Ministry of State for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030, we do have the District Development Fund, which as per this year held up to Kshs14 million in an account. The Rural Development Fund is another dormant Fund, which holds about Kshs3 million in an account.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the question one may ask is; who is using these funds? Why do we have funds that are dormant for long, holding a lot of money like this, and nothing is being done to make sure that the funds are used to provide the much needed services to our people. I want to believe that this time, the Ministries concerned, and the Government in general, will make a deliberate move to ensure that these funds, which have been highlighted here - I have talked about the District Development Fund, the Rural Development Fund, the Cereals and Sugar Finance Fund and many other dormant funds - are wound up within the shortest possible time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in respect of the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development, the auditor raised some serious concerns on the disbursement of the women funds to the constituencies. It is noted that as at some time, and it appears like it is still the case up to now, the disbursement of women funds has potential for misuse. There are various concerns raised by the Controller and Auditor- General that, there is no proper documentation or channels of disbursing these funds. The Committee has recommended to the Ministry that it has to demonstrate that a water-tight system has been put in place in that Ministry to ensure that these funds are not misused.

It is now time for the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Once again, it gives me a lot of pleasure to close this Debate. However, as I close it, I would like to say that this is a unique closure in the sense that it has marked the end of the backlog in the department of public accounts. This is not a minor achievement. This means that future reports will be more qualitative and if they are intended to make arrests, they will make arrests of people who are either still in office or if they will not be in office; they will have been transferred next door. If not so, they will have been recently retired. If they will have died, their graves will still be fresh. We could even go there in the Luo style and weep at the grave and ask why someone caused such kind of losses to the public. I just want to appeal to Ministers – I can see hon. Mrs. Mugo is here, a very senior Member of the political class – now that we have removed backlog, that they remain on their toes. That, therefore, means that we will not be waiting for them to misappropriate funds the way they have been doing it. We will deal with you during the act. I am not

Hon. Kaino, you have a balance of 40 minutes to conclude moving the Motion.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in moving the Motion, I narrated the problems that people who are living in pastoral areas are undergoing. My Committee Members worked very hard. They travelled almost three-quarters of the areas that we had targeted, and where people have suffered for many years. To talk further about the problems that those people have been undergoing, I want to say that Kenyans do not only live in Nairobi, Mombasa and Kisumu. Kenyans live in rural areas. But we seem to be more concerned about those who are living in the rural areas and not those

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to second this Report. I want to thank the Chair for very ably moving this Report and highlighting the core issues that, as a Committee, we were confronted with. I want to say that, as the Chair has ably indicated, we visited several areas in the Rift Valley, Eastern, North Eastern and Coast provinces to get firsthand information. We also visited two countries; Ethiopia and Botswana that have embraced very modern livestock management system and it was a very big eye opener, especially for me. Botswana has turned its livestock industry into a major foreign exchange earner

Order! Order! He has heard you. Hon. Ruto, allow the hon. Member to present her case.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know if he has had sleepless nights or dreaming. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, our Committee also considered seeking means of employment for our young people. We also considered the enactment and implementation of the National Policy on Small Arms and Light Weapons and the Mifugo protocol. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also need to eliminate negative cultural practices that encourage cattle rustling. We should also encourage national cohesion and integration, so that our young people can see best examples in other areas. I would also encourage the CEO of the Vision 2030, Mr. Mugo Kibati to consider prioritizing this issue, so that we can move our country forward. There is a lot that we can do with better livestock management. Finally, because the issue of cattle rustling is an issue of human rights violation, I would want to quote the case of Rodrigues versus Honduras, which talked of due diligence. This is a case which was reported in the Inter-American Human Rights Court. It says that it is upon the government to ensure and protect human rights, and that where the government is not able to, the ordinary people can take it to court. In this case, the court said that the State’s failure to take reasonable steps to prevent human rights violations was a ground for its culpability. Secondly, the court established that the State is obliged to use the means at its disposal to carry out serious investigations of violations committed within its jurisdiction to identify those responsible to impose the appropriate punishment and ensure that the victims get adequate compensations.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank my brother, hon. Boaz Kaino, for bringing this Motion to the House, even though I have a few concerns, which I hope he is going to take into account during the implementation of this Motion after it is passed. The views of the people of Marakwet East, which is the epicentre of cattle rustling, were not captured. It is unfortunate that when the Committee went to Marakwet District, they only went to Marakwet West, and not to Marakwet East. In fact, the people who gave their views castigated the people of my constituency, and I beg that the castigation be removed. The Committee says in part of its minutes on page 29: “The area residents had been attacked by people from Marakwet East and their cattle taken away”. The minutes go on to say: “The majority of the cattle rustlers were from Marakwet East”. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not true, because cattle rustling in Marakwet takes place along the Kerio Valley, and affects the people of Tot and Murkutuor. In 2001, we lost 57 people overnight. The views of these people were not captured. I tried to intervene by talking to the Clerk Assistant, who was the Committee’s head of secretariat. I asked the Committee to go and have a hearing in Tot. They promised to go back, but they never did so until today, when I see these statements in the report before the House. On 23rd October, 2002, at Tot District Hospital, we lost 11 children whose heads were just bashed on rocks. The people of Endor at one point were known to be the terrorised citizens of this country, but their views were never captured. The Committee did not go to sit at their right place. The Committee did not hear the views of the people in Chesegon, which is between Marakwet East and Pokot Central, which has hon. Litole’s people. The Committee should have captured the views of those people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so far, we have come up with our own ways of trying to ensure that the people of Markakwet and Pokot live in peace. To say that the Committee sat in Kapsowar, where there is no cattle rustling, is wrong. The Committee

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I want to draw the attention of hon. Members to some years back; the year 1550. In the year 1550, according to the BBC in what they did about three or four days ago, they analyzed and said that China and India were the richest countries and economies of the world. That was in the year 1550 but over time because of invasions, colonization, piracy, cattle rustling, theft of raw materials from third world countries to the industrialized world, the economies of those countries gradually became very poor and Africa is just part of that. Africa which is the oldest continent was left with only cattle rustling and Somalia is doing piracy also. Coming back to Kenya, we can sit here and talk and discuss this issue but the truth cannot be put more eloquently than what has been done by Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona that the State is responsible for its omissions and commissions in terms of enforcing security and also ensuring that people do not suffer. The rulings have been cited, and even without the rulings, the State is bound to protect her people. The people of Turkana, Marakwet, Samburu and Baringo have suffered these injustices because a certain group is armed and they feel so powerful that they are able to intimidate the Government. This should be put to a halt. We are supporting this particular initiative through this Select Committee because the Government must wake up from its slumber. By this, I mean that technology exists. In other parts of the world like Oklahoma, they are still doing cattle rustling in one way or

Order! Mr. Mututho, you will have ten minutes to continue when the Motion resumes. Hon. Members, we have come to the end of today’s sitting. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 15th March, 2010 at 9.00 a.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.