Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motions:-
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Attorney-General the following Question by Private Notice.
(a) Why has the Government not been able to secure the extradition of Bishop Gilbert Deya and Mr. Yagnesh Devani from the United Kingdom?
(b) How many arrest warrants from Kenya are with the Interpol for the arrest of persons who have fled the country after committing crime and could the Attorney- General table the details of the arrest warrants mentioned above?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) Bishop Gilbert Juma Deya who is a resident in the United Kingdom was charged with five counts of child stealing contrary to Section 174(1)(b) of the Penal Code before the Chief Magistrate in Nairobi, Kenya. On 17th July, 2006, the Government of Kenya made a request for extradition to Her Majestyâs Government and Bishop Deya was arrested in London on 28th December, 2006. The extradition hearing took place before the District Judge Tubbs of Westminster Magistrate Court and on 7th November, 2007, the District Judge Tubbs sent the case to the Secretary of State for Home Affairs for a decision to be made.
On 18th December, 2007, the Home Secretary ordered the extradition of Gilbert Juma Deya but Bishop Deya appealed against the decision and on 31st October, 2008, Bishop Deyaâs appeal was dismissed. At that stage, there are two processes. You either go to the House of Lords or you continue with the Secretary of State for Home Affairs. Bishop Deya chose to continue making protestations with this Secretary and since that time, his lawyers have been making a number of representations to the Secretary of State for Home Affairs. However, I am glad to say that the Government of Kenya has supplied the necessary information and given the necessary undertakings required and now expect the Secretary of State for Home Affairs to make his decision very soon. I would like to remind the House that the Secretary of State for Home Affairs in making a decision is exercising a quasi-judicial function.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as relates Mr. Yagnesh Mohanlal Devani, he was charged in three criminal cases, that is, Chief Magistrate (CM) Case Nos.1150 and 1151 of 2009 and Nairobi Anti-Corruption Case No.18 of 2009. Warrants of arrest were
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the practice over the years to those people who steal from the Government or those who commit crimes in Kenya has been that they steal and go to Europe. We know very well that the Government is not keen about bringing them back for very obvious reasons. My question to the Attorney-General is; what pressure has the Government put over the last five years when this case of Mr. Deya started? Has there been any delegation of the Government going to the Home Secretary in the United Kingdom to pressure for the extradition of this one so-called Bishop Deya so that he can come and face criminal charges here?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I must state that when the Government applies for extradition, it follows up the matter diligently with a competent authority of the country concerned. If there is any delay in the extradition proceedings, it is normally in that country rather than because the Government wants it. So, we do follow that very diligently. Mr. Deya was not accused of stealing from the Government. His charges are as I mentioned. I can confirm that in both cases there have been Government delegations to the UK. Even in Bishop Deyaâs case, there have also been delegations from the UK to examine some of our facilities here.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to ask the Attorney-General, being aware that there are so many people in the Republic of Kenya who have committed various crimes in Kenya and taken a flight to other countries like Dubai, Europe and other places, how many people has this Government been able to bring back here to face criminal charges over the years?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is a question that falls under the police department and as soon as I get that information from the police, I will table it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are also aware that Britain is demanding some people to be extradited to that country. Could the Attorney-General tell us why he should even be listening to them when they do not seem to be acting on our issues? He should confirm that none of the Kenyans would be taken there until this kind of relationship is well sorted out? In fact what our people are being accused of is just having taken money there. The ones we are questioning him are those who stole money here. Are you fair to take that stand for this country?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, each case must be decided on its own merit. I must state here in this House that our relationship with the investigative agencies of Her Majestyâs Government or the Government of the UK has been very good and they have co-operated well. As I have said earlier, they have, indeed, come here and we have gone there. We are working very well, not only in respect of our requests to the Government but also their requests to us.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Attorney-General to tell us, if he has not been successful in bringing them back to Kenya, how far is he in attempting to bring back to Kenya the money they stole?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of bringing back the money that was stolen, as you know, is a matter which falls under the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act on the shoulders of the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) and I know that a lot of progress is being made in that area. I would not like to mention that progress now as it may prejudice what is happening.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Attorney-General confirm to this House that, indeed, there are discussions between the Kenya Government and the UK Government to swap Mr. Devani and Mr. Okemo who are required to answer charges in the UK? Are there such arrangements to swap and that is why the Home Affairs Secretary of the UK Government was here to personally serve documents and get both the former managing director of Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC) and Mr. Okemo?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the whole idea of swapping is what the Attorney-General of this country is reading in the newspapers. From what I know and I emphatically say, each case is decided on its own merit.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are former managers of Pan Paper Factory who fleeced the accounts of the factory up to its knees and they ran away. Has the Attorney-General commenced any action to bring those people back and bring back the money they took from Pan Paper?
That falls under part (b). We are waiting for a comprehensive list from the Commissioner of Police.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Attorney-General inform the House whether he is aware that Yagnesh Devani and Bishop Deya have claimed in their defense that the prisons in Kenya are death traps? Has the Attorney-General done anything to assure the Government of Britain that they are not death traps and that we will give them VIP treatment even in Kamiti as long as they come back?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can see the hon. Member for Kisumu is well informed but I do not want to go into those details except to say that there have been
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Today is really a very special day especially in the sense that the President was just going through a review of performance contracts. Would I be in order to request the Attorney-General to tell us how he fared in the performance contract today considering that all his answers under interrogation by Members of Parliament have been in the negative? He has really not scored anything. Can you tell us how he fared in the performance contract?
Order! You must maintain relevance. The issue is on Bishop Deya. Mr. Attorney-General, do you wish to answer the question?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could he tell me how I fared because I do not know? I was busy preparing the question asked by Mr. C. Kilonzo.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to demand a discussion of the person of the Attorney-General without a substantive Motion in the House?
Let us have the last supplementary question, Mr. C. Kilonzo!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since criminals have known that it is very difficult to process extraditions, could the Attorney-General consider using existing international laws to have these people charged there? Some of these crimes are now recognized as crimes in money laundering because they steal the money and take it elsewhere to hide it. Could he consider them to be charged under international laws in the countries they are, as opposed to wasting time trying to get them back here? It appears very clearly that he will not get them and there is no goodwill from the Government to get them here.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me state again that Government through the Attorney-General is determined to get the people here for trial. As to whether they should be tried here or there, if the crimes have been committed both here and there, a matter that is applicable to this nature is always discussed and considered.
Next Question, Mr. Kabogo!
asked the Minister for Lands when the Government will compensate owners of all the land compulsorily acquired in Juja and Ruiru areas by the Government for the purposes of construction of Nairobi Northern by-pass.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
The Government through Gazette Notice No.2240 of 2nd March, 2010 gave intention of notice to acquire land for the Nairobi northern by-pass and also through Gazette Notice No.2241 of 2nd March, 2010 gazetted inquiry dates for hearing of claims from the affected persons. The land has since been inspected, inquiries held, valuation completed and awards issued to bona fide interested parties for purposes of
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister because he has been in this House for the last three days ready to answer this Question. However, you will notice that the land was acquired by a notice of one year and three months ago. The documents that the Minister has tabled indicate that payments are going on but he has purposely left out the dates of payment. That is because if the dates are indicated as this month, then we will be asking for payment with interest. That is because the law requires that payments are made promptly. Section 40(3)B of our Constitution requires payments to be done promptly. Could the Minister confirm that payments are being done one and half years later and whether he will compensate those people with the interest and added value? That is because they are being given money now for land that was acquired one and half years ago.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the Question asked by the hon. Member, the context was that no payment had been made at all. All I was required to respond to was whether or not they had been paid but the hon. Member is aware---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If the Question is asking when they will be paid, does it bar the Member for Juja to ask why they are being paid one and half years later when the Constitution guarantees prompt payment? Would I be in order to tell the Minister to stop misleading the House that the question I am asking is not relevant to the Question that is being answered?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just saying that if the hon. Member really wanted us to haggle over that one, then he should have taken a little bit of time to make the appropriate inquiry and, in my answer, I would have included when they were paid in respect to the time when the award was made. But that, notwithstanding, under
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, here is a case of the Government, deliberately or otherwise, delaying payment to ordinary people. Some of the people whose houses were destroyed are very ordinary and for one and half years, they have been struggling. Could the Minister confirm that those people will be paid the value of the land or property today, which is nearly more than ten times? Could he also consider paying them for damages, as requested by the hon. Member?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I paid the money in terms of what the hon. member is saying, then I will be under scrutiny by this Parliament. The law says how to pay and what a man should be paid and, if there is a claim for interest, when and how it should be paid. But so far, as matters stand now, no single claimant has come or approached the Government to decline payment on account of either not adequate compensation or because there is a claim of interest. I think it is better not to speculate about that. If there is such a justified claim, then it will be paid. The law is very clear. It is not just in accordance with the Constitution, but with Section 8 of the Land Acquisition Act.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The person speaking is a lawyer of very competent calibre. He also believes in justice and human rights. We are discussing about ordinary people and their Government. Now, you cannot put the onus on those people; that they are supposed to do this or that. Could the Minister consider really initiating that? Otherwise, he will be deliberately misleading the House that the reason is because they have not asked, when he should be the one who should really be acting.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would ask Eng. Maina, who is a contractor and has built roads on land which has been compulsorily acquired and has never taken mercy on the people who are in the neighbourhood--- When his tractors are rolling, he has no sympathy at all! I think he should be the last person to talk about sympathy!
Order! Order, hon. Minister! Do not impute improper motive on the person of hon. Maina! He is talking about the common people. Proceed and answer the question.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to correct the insinuation by the hon. Member. In fact, I am an engineer by profession. He is also a lawyer by profession. What you do today is called business. He should not describe me as a contractor for roads! I have built about 30 water supplies in this country, for your information! In fact, the roads are being built by the Chinese according to your Government policy, which is rendering the youth of Kenya jobless!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that the hon. Member has a company. It is not called Kirinyaga Engineering Company, but Kirinyaga Construction Company. I have looked at its Memorandum and Articles of Association and part of the
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Member of Parliament who asked the Question referred to the compensation to the people who lost their land. In response, the Minister said that this Member of Parliament owns Kirinyaga Construction Company. Is he in order to bring in the firm of the Member of Parliament whereas the issue we are discussing is compensation to the people whose land has been acquired compulsorily by the Government? Is he in order to bring in the name of the company of the Member of Parliament?
Certainly! You should not address it!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know. I think the hon. Member has been asleep! I did not raise that issue!
Order! That had been put to rest! The Chair ruled the Minister to be out of order to discuss the person and the business of hon. Ephraim Maina without a substantive Motion. I thought that was put to rest.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Road 104, from Nakuru to Eldoret, was upgraded two to three years ago. In the course of that upgrading, a number of parcels of land were acquired by the Ministry jointly with the Ministry of Roads. Could the Minister inform the House how long it will take him to compensate those people considering that the road is now almost complete and nothing has happened after he took away the land?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must confess that I am being confronted---
That is a different Question!
Yes, that is a different Question. If it was put to me substantively, then I would answer it.
Order! Hon. Kigen, other than on matters of policy, on specific matters you file your own Question. Do not hijack the Question of another hon. Member and expect the Minister to have that information when on his feet! The last supplementary question on the same is by hon. Kabogo!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister is slightly avoiding the real issue. The issue here is about when compensation will be given; the payment is being made one and a half years later. We have cited the law, Section 10 of the Compulsory Acquisition Act, Cap.295, where the process of acquiring land is defined. In the same spirit, the law provides in Section 8 that payment is prompt. The same law provides that interest is payable. All I am asking of this Minister is: Now, that he knows that payment is one and a half years late, why does he have to wait for the 900 people
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I cannot undertake because it is not my money. I can only pay where there has been a claim of interest. As we speak now, there has been no claim for interest on account of late awards and compensation.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister is avoiding a very sensitive issue. The facts are bare. Compensation is being paid one and half years later, and the law gives the Minister the position on interest. I am only asking: Could he give the House an undertaking according to the law, and not for illegal interest, that he will pay interest on amounts that are being paid one and a half years later? I am not asking for rocket science.
Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir, what I am saying is simple. Interest will be paid when claimed and when justified. So far, there has been no claim for payment of interest. I cannot give an undertaking where there is noâ
Order! Hon. Kabogo, you are not saying that So-and-so needs interest. You are not giving facts to the House here, and indicating examples of landowners who have been denied interest. You are making a blanket claim! As the Minister puts it, it has to be on a case-by-cases basis. If it is in the law, then it is obvious that you do not have to say it here.
Next Question by Mr. Langat!
asked the Minister for Lands:-
(a) what the status of the planned resettlement of members of the Talai Community, as well as other squatters, residing in the outskirts of Kericho Town is; and,
(b) what he is doing to fast-track the resettlement process.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) In collaboration with the Kericho District Plot Allocation Committee, the Ministry has identified a number of plots currently occupied by the Talai Community; these specifically are Block 5 and in Block 6 in an area known as a âdeferred zoneâ neighbouring Kericho Prisons Annex for the resettlement of the Talai Community.
(b) I have directed the relevant Government department, the Director of Physical Planning, to immediately commence the process of planning of the identified plots to enable a formal allocation process to commence. It is expected that this process will take some three months to complete. I have previously held discussions with the civic leaders from Kericho, the District Commissioner, other public officers and stakeholders on this matter. The action I have taken on this matter is a result of these consultations. I may add that the community is already on this land, and so the exercise will be simple. It will not be complicated in any sense of the word.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for that answer. Part âaâ of my Question was about the Talai Community as well as other squatters residing in the outskirts of Kericho Town. We have other squatters in a place called Koita, who were
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a big problem nationally with resettlement of squatters; over the last four financial years, we have not received a single cent from the Treasury for the resettlement of squatters who, under the framework under which we settle squatters, they must be defined as poor and landless. However, I have begun an exercise of audit in several areas of the Republic. If we identify land that was either grabbed or given out, and not used in the manner in which the grant stated, we will try to recover some of this land in order to resettle squatters. I think we have identified some pieces within the Kericho area, which may be used for the purpose of settling the squatters in Kericho. The Member for Ainamoi knows that the issues around Kericho are very close to my heart because I am a child of Kericho.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I sincerely wish to thank the hon. Minister for his text. I just want the Minister to know that this is a pre-independence matter. Independent governments have promised to resettle the Talai Community. In fact, they were taken to his neighbourhood. The Talai were moved by the British colonialists from Kericho Town to Gwassi, where they were rejected and they were brought back on the promise that they would be given land. I am only stating facts.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Member to insinuate that the Talai were rejected in Gwassi yet they were brought there in 1934? We welcomed them and they lived with us until when there was population explosion, when we asked them kindly to go back to where they had come from. They had been brought there to die. There were a lot of tsetse flies in Gwassi, and they were brought there to die. We welcomed them and gave them land until when they felt they wanted to go back because of population explosion. We did not reject them!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. With due respect to my brother here, Mr. Mbadi, is it in order to claim that because of population explosion in that area, they asked these people to go away, yet the Constitution allows every Kenyan to live in any part of this country?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need to clarify the history a bit just in one minute. The colonial Government brought the Talai Community to Lambwe Valley in Gwassi Constituency to die because there was a lot of tse tse fly. These people were warriors. So, we accommodated them with our tse tse fly and they did not die. Then later on after the colonial Government became a bit friendly to them, they decided to come back to Kericho. We did not chase them. That fact needs to be put correctly.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will notice one thing from the point of order hon. John Mbadi. First, he has made me a Minister. Secondly, I want to agree with him that actually they did not reject. I was only stating the same facts. These were fighters against colonialism. They were taken to Gwassi to die, as he has correctly put, and they received them well. Now, when they came back, they were promised to be settled.
The population is also important. They were taken there at 700, they are now about 6,000 in terms of population and about 2000 households. This is not a contentious matter. I just want the good Minister to appreciate the role of these people played to fight for the Independence of this country. What assurance could he give to this House that all
Mr. Deputy Speaker, in terms of compensation, it is very difficult for me to do anything without the authority of this Parliament.
If you look at legislation in this Parliament, which targets particular community such as the Mazrui Act was to deal with a specific situation and the Isaack Okwiri Act, was compensation to an individual.
So, I would ask hon. Ethuro, probably, we can work together and come out with legislation to deal with some of these issues that you have raised. This is one of the reasons the problems of the Talai Community found favour with me. As a fighter like them, I truly believe that these are people who did a good service to this country. However, over 40 years, they have been left in a situation like they are not part of this country. I have ordered as this exercise is going on that they should remain where there. The land they are staying on in Kericho will become part of their land.
I am aware that the community is not just in Kericho alone. They are all over the Rift Valley. We will to deal with that issue. Under framework of historical injustices, I think we can address the issues of the Talai Community. It is a serious matter that those who stood and fought continue to suffer, while those of us who, probably, never have been in any battle have the privileges that we enjoy. So, I find that hon. Langat you have done a good thing to bring this Question because the community was forgotten in every sense of the word.
Last supplementary Question, hon. Langat.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his answer the Minister said the exercise of giving them land would take three months. Could he confirm that they will give them land within three months with effective from this month? Is it effective from this month? Could he also assure this House that he will also consider giving land to squatters residing near tea estates in Kericho?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my answer is dated 8th June, 2011. So, it is effectively from 8th June. I am going to invite hon. Langat to go with me in three weeksâ time to Kericho as part of an exercise of ensuring these things move with the necessary speed. What we are aiming at is not three months. If we can do it in less than three months, so be it.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is also a subject matter that also touches on me. May I be allowed to just ask one clarification from the Minister?
I thought you want to raise a point of order but you cannot ask a question at this juncture.
It is related to this matter, because the Minister has---
Is it on Talai?
It is Talai and other squatters in the outskirts of Kericho.
I wanted to know from the Minister, whether he has taken into consideration the squatters who were evicted by the white settlers who planted tea in the estates, particularly the ones who are settled at Chepchabas? He is aware of this matter because I have been talking with him for a long time.
On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Does he want your information? Fair enough go ahead and give him the information.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come from this community called Talai. Those are my descendants. So, I want to sympathetically request the Minister to fast-track their case. I have a personal interest!
Given the sensitivity and emotional attachments all Kenyans have, the Chair has given that leeway to hon. Konesâs question. Could you, please, answer, Dr. Kones question on the same? He is asking whether you will do the same for many other Kenyans whose land were confiscated.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, under the Constitution, all public land, except those that are specified in the Constitution will vest in the Counties. I believe that in the County from which my brother comes from, Bomet County, there are large expanses of land which were acquired. Some of them, leases have expired and some which are about to expire. There are pieces of land which were, probably, grabbed and which are not being used. So, I would urge my colleague that, probably, in the next elections, he should become the Governor. Since the land would vest in the County Government, then he can deal with the matter even more perpendicularly than I can deal with it.
Next Question, Question No.988
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance:-
(a) whether he is aware that the Central Bank of Kenya is operating without a properly constituted board, and if so, what are the reasons for the anomaly, and,
(b) when he will ensure that the Board is properly constituted.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware that the Central Bank of Kenya is operating without a properly constituted Board. (b) In view of the response to âaâ above, âbâ does not arise.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the face of it, the answer sounds very nice. However, I want the Assistant Minister to tell this House between October 2010 and January 2011, how many positions were filled, what the total membership of the CBK is. He should also tell us between January and April, how many of those positions were filled. I am aware these positions were filled in April this year. How many were filled before April?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. May be I did not hear the Assistant Minister properly. If you look at the Question asked by Mr. Mbadi, you will find that part âaâ asks whether the Minister is aware that the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) is operating without a properly constituted board, which he says he is aware. Part
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I said that I was not aware.
Which means that the Assistant Minister confirms that there is a board in place?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Assistant Minister, could you answer the supplementary question by Mr. Mbadi?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I said that I was not aware. The term of the directors of CBK was staggered. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the term of the two directors expired at the end of September, 2010. That is the non-executive directors. The term of the other two directors expired in October, 2010. The term of the last director expired at the end of January, 2011. So, by the end of January, 2011, the five non-executive directors had not been appointed because their terms had expired. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Ask the last supplementary question, Mr. Mbadi!
Order! What is it, Dr. Kones? Is it on the same issue?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is your question?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also know that the CBK, for some time now, has been operating without a substantive Deputy Governor because of the illness of the current Deputy Governor. From inside sources, this has to some extent affected the operations of CBK. When will the Government appoint a substantive Deputy Governor?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the hon. Member has said, the Deputy Governor has been sick for some time and it is being considered very seriously to replace him. His Excellency the President will replace him very soon.
Very well! Ask the last question on the same, Mr. Mbadi!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want the Assistant Minister to answer this specific question. From January to April, how many board members were in service and if there were vacancies, how could the CBK operate for about four months without a full operating board?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Board of the CBK meets quarterly. So, the Board does not meet on a day to day basis. From January when we did not have the five substantive directors, I issued a Statement on 1st March, 2011, and the three directors were appointed on 28th March. The last two of the five directors were appointed last week. So, the Board is now fully constituted. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! You will realise that we have the Finance Bill today and the Committee of Supply - Vote on Account. Under the
Let us move on to the next Order!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Special Programmes. In that Statement, I wish to request her to clearly and substantively respond to the following questions.
(i) What is the fate of the World Bank-funded Western Kenya Community-Driven Development and Flood Mitigation Project which stalled about two years ago?
(ii) Why is it taking the Government forever to get this project back running over two years since it stalled?
(iii) Aware that the Kshs6 billion provided by the World Bank for this project is a loan and not a grant, why does the Government continue to dilly dally over this project and thereby waste public resources on loan interest repayment in the absence of any benefits to the people of western Kenya and the country?
(iv) Could the Minister tell this House whether the project staff continue to draw salaries under the project and, if so, why? While on that, the Minister should provide a list of all staff that have continued to be retained on this project and tell us exactly how much they are drawing out of the project.
(v) How does the Government respond to concerns that this inexplicable delay could be a calculated move to sabotage the economic interest of the western region?
(vi) The Minister should indicate very clearly measures the Government is taking to ensure that this project is restarted without any further delay. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Is anyone here from the Ministry of State for Special Programmes? Yes, Deputy Leader of Government Business!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could we make the Statement two weeks from today?
Mr. Namwamba, you will have the Statement in two weeks time!
That is good enough, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you.
Order, hon. Members! We will take the requests and deal with the Ministers. Proceed, Mr. Mbadi!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance with regard to the continued recent depreciation of the Kenyan shilling. Indeed, the shilling has continued to depreciate from a mean of Kshs80.8 to the dollar on 3rd January, 2011 to a 17-year low exchange rate of Kshs89.4 on Tuesday, 14th June, 2011. This turn of event is likely to affect the manufacturing sector, could fuel further inflationary pressures and erode expected gains of boosting import of maize, wheat and rice with the consequence of terminating the envisaged reduction in prices of these essential commodities. To this end, could the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance undertake the following? There are three issues that I want him to clarify.
(i) To highlight the key process of the depreciating Kenya Shilling.
(ii) Give an account of the impact of the depreciating shilling to the economy at large.
(iii) To detail specific possible interventions the Government plans to put in place to reverse the trend. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could I respond next week on Thursday?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order as the Chair of the House Broadcasting Committee. Standing Order No.195 (2) gives the House Broadcasting Committee the mandate to consider and report matters relating to broadcasting of parliamentary proceedings. It also gives the Committee the mandate to assess and analyze parliamentary information released to the public by the media. Under Standing Order No.34 (2), the House Broadcasting Committee is allowed as per the First Schedule of our Standing Orders to publish broadcasting regulations and part of those regulations deal with parliamentary privileges. No.2 of those privileges says that audio and visual digital footage shall be covered by the laws relating to parliamentary privilege and shall be kept as part of the records of the House under custody of the Clerk. On relations with external media, the First Schedule seeks:-
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Whereas I do not really agree with the headline on todayâs issues of The Star, and whereas I do agree that you made that ruling yesterday, in your consideration of this matter, I would urge that this House exercises tolerance especially to media houses. If you look at media houses in other countries, they report certain serious issues that one would expect that they will be reprimanded. However, as country, I think we are moving forward. Some of these stories could just be thought-provoking. I do not see the damage that it has caused to this House. Whatever was said was covered live and Kenyans had already seen it. I would urge tolerance and ask that the Speaker asks the media houses to exercise caution in future. But, I would persuade this House not to take punitive measures on the media house. I request my colleague, who is also my brother in law, to reconsider his stand.
Order, hon. Members. Hon. Eng. Gumbo was addressing the Chair in his capacity as the Chair of a House Committee. He has stated the Standing Order and regulations that govern broadcasting. The Chair will take into account all the issues that he has sought and make a ruling on the matter by notice, maybe, next week.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, I rose on a point of order and promised this House that I will table a letter. I wish to lay it on the Table today. It is with regard to my appointment to a House Committee.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am seeking your indulgence that you allow me, most kindly, to add my voice to this very important matter. I know that you have already indicated that---
What important matter?
The one regarding the media.
Order! Hon. Namwamba, the Chair has already given direction on that matter. I am sure that when the Chair makes a ruling, it is at liberty to entertain you. For now, that matter has been disposed of.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I was pleading for magnanimity from a Chair; that I have confidence in his every broad capacity to be magnanimous.
That will not pass, hon. Namwamba. I am magnanimous, but I will not allow that.
Most obliged, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. On 31st May, hon. Nyamweya requested a Ministerial Statement regarding availability of seed from Kenya Seed Company. The Kenya Seed Company is the main seed maize producing company in the country with an estimated market share of 85 per cent. I wish to assure the House that, while we experienced a deficit of seed in the country last season due to drought and planning error on the part of Kenya Seed Company, we have now made arrangements to ensure that such a situation is not repeated. We have also instructed the Kenya Seed Company to expand the area under irrigation to mitigate the cases of drought, so that we do not depend on rainfed seed production. We are in the process of assisting Kenya Seed Company to contract more land from ADC or acquire more land to breed seed to boost commercial seed production. The total number of farmers contracted by Kenya Seed Company to grow seed maize during the Year 2011/2012 is 250, and they are covering 42,318.50 acres. I hereby table the list.
Kenya Seed Company pays contracted farmers Kshs47 per kilo for clean maize seed, and sells one kilogramme of seed maize at Kshs115 to farmers.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Assistant Minister for the elaborate answer he has given---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Listening to the Assistant Minister, he is reading verbatim from the report. He has just tabled a report on seed shortages. Would I be in order, therefore, to seek your direction because this would amount to anticipating debate since the report is already tabled and the Motion is already properly moved and is still before the House Business Committee? If the matter is very urgent, we would be happy to discuss the Report even tomorrow, or Tuesday.
Mr. Assistant Minister, what do you have to say?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, by the time we were preparing this Statement, the Committee had not tabled their report. This request of the hon. Member was done on 31st May. I have been coming with this Statement on a daily basis and not getting an opportunity to issue this Statement. As I speak, I have not even seen the Report by the Chairman of Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. So, I do not know what they have tabled.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the purpose of laying papers here and giving Notices of Motion is for the Executive and everybody else interested to notice. We did table. We gave notice of Motion. That Report is available in Room No.8, if the hon. Assistant Minister, so desires to see it. I find it---
When did you table it?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was tabled on Tuesday.
Hon. Members, the rules of the House are clear. You do not anticipate debate. So, if that material has been covered appropriately in a report tabled before the House, then we do not proceed with that Ministerial Statement. Mr. Oyongo Nyamweya, you will look at the Report and maybe solicit that the House Business Committee prioritizes it for debate.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I brought this issue in May. The Committee has tabled its report much later. The issue of availability of seed maize is so critical, especially in Nyanza where I come from. The farmers need to know whether the seeds are available. We need an assurance from the Assistant Minister that these seeds are available. This is a question I asked earlier. What happened here is that because of other business which came up in the House, last week, that Statement was deferred. That is why there has been a delay on delivery of this Statement. So, I really ask for your indulgence to allow me ask a few clarifications from him.
Order, Mr. Oyongo Nyamweya. I really sympathise with you. I wish that Statement was sought last week. Unfortunately, it is coming this week after another report has been tabled. So, according to our Standing Orders, I cannot help you for now.
What is it, Mr. Assistant Minister?
For record purposes---
Let us not use valuable time on just points of orders!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for record purposes, I just want it to be put on record that I have not seen his Report, but I will go with your ruling. This was the Ministerial Statement which was requested by the hon. Member.
Mr. Assistant Minister, if you had told me that, it would have helped somewhat. That is why I was giving you the opportunity to respond to Mr. Mututho.
I am not challenging your decision.
Just a minute, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir!
Order, Mr. Oyongo Nyamweya! You cannot rise and say you are not challenging my ruling and yet, you are even challenging my ability to give you the opportunity to speak! Next Statement, hon. Mudavadi!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to make two Statements. The first one which is to do with the Makadara Economic Stimulus Project. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 14th June, serious allegations were made against my Ministry on the Floor of this House and I wish to give a Ministerial Statement as follows: One, the Makadara ESP Market is among the 180 markets advertised by the Ministry of Finance on 25th, 2009 and 14 bidders bought the tender documents. I will be tabling the documents to show who the bidders were.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Although the Minister has given this Statement almost to the end, would it not have been prudent if the Member who requested for the Ministerial Statement would have been present so that he could interrogate the Statement appropriately?
Mr. Minister, did you agree to present the Statement today?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I consulted with the Speaker and I said that I wanted to make this Statement. We are dealing with a situation where documents are being tabled here making allegations against individuals---
Order, Mr. Minister! I have confirmed that the Member was actually here and so, you are perfectly in order to proceed!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I, therefore, want to state that it has come to light that this person who was supposedly making allegations is not a registered company under the Companies Act and there is a letter from the Registrar of Companies to prove that. They are not a registered contractor under the Ministry of Public Works and there is a letter which I am going to table to indicate this from the Ministry of Public Works. They also do not appear on the KRA tax records as being a registered company. So, the point I am trying to put across as I table this document is that, the House should not be used to malign other individuals when somebody has not verified the facts. The issue here is that even if an ESP project is worth Kshs10 million and somebody alleges that the Minister and the Permanent Secretary are demanding Kshs8 million of the Kshs10 million, it is ridiculous. Then, where would the money to implement the project be found? So, as I table this document, I appeal to the House and, indeed, to the Committee that will be looking into this matter to come up with very clear guidelines so that people can be sanctioned if the game is to malign individuals here. We must fight corruption, but let us fight it with facts and not just maligning peopleâs names.
Have you finished presenting your Statement, Mr. Minister?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I have finished with that particular one. Maybe, there could be some questions before I deal with the second one.
That is not for your convenience. For the convenience of the House, you must be interrogated!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter in my view. It borders on the dignity of the House. When this matter came, I took it upon myself. We are all individuals here and we represent people. We have families and above all, we are leaders of our country. I took it upon myself to talk to the Minister because I was concerned. From the outset, the letter looked fake. I know that to authentic documents, you need a Commissioner of Oaths. I cannot authenticate my own certificates and purport to say that they are authentic. It is the duty of the Members of Parliament who are representatives of the people of Kenya to take full responsibility when they mislead the House. Would I be in order to ask the Chair to take sanctions on a Member who deliberately misled this House by bringing fake documents?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Members! Why are you seeking points of order when it is an opportunity to seek clarifications from the Minister? What Eng. Gumbo has sought should have been a clarification, but I also want to say something because the Minister had also made a statement to that effect. Really, it is the role of the Chair to admit documents. We have the criteria for admitting those documents.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Member for Rarieda, who is a very good friend of mine in order to mislead the House that when documents are presented to the Chair or to the Speaker, they have to be authenticated by a Commissioner of Oaths? All that is required for a document to be authentic is the signature of the originator. So, it is not a must for a Member to bring documents that have been signed by the Commissioner of Oaths for them to be received by the Chair. I think that he is misleading this House and setting standards which are not within the Standing Orders.
Order, Dr. Nuh! You are perfectly in order in terms of admissibility of documents. We just need to make sure that there is a proper address and the document is signed.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This document was accepted as admissible by the Chair on the strength of the signature. The Chair was perfectly in order to accept that letter as admissible. However, given that the letter is turning out not to be authentic, it appears to me that the Member deliberately misled the Chair and the House to accept a letter as admissible yet in the real sense it was a forgery. The integrity of this House, not of the Minister alone, and that of the Chair is going to be at stake. I will agree with the point of order raised by Eng. Gumbo that some action needs to be taken against the Member who misled this House into accepting a letter which he knew was not a genuine letter. You will remember that the following day- --
Order! You are on a point of order, hon. Mbadi! You are not making a contribution and the Chair has heard you. I will respond to your point of order, but let us have hon. Ruto and then hon. Nuh to seek clarifications.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my clarification from the Minister is basically on his management of the Economic Stimulus Project under his docket. Could he tell us the reasons which have made the ESPs under his charge difficult to implement and very slow? The projects are managed in Nairobi when all other similar projects are managed in a more orderly manner through the ESP Management Committee as stipulated by the Treasury. It has become very difficult to follow who awards these contracts, how and when they are paid for. The contractors on site work for three weeks and disappear for another three months before they are paid, so that they can continue. So, they are on and off. The projects under the Ministerâs charge are not being monitored and appraised closely by anybody.
Members, you will remember this Statement arose from a Question which had been answered except for the element of bribery allegations which the Minister was responding to specifically. So, the Chair will not entertain more interrogations in terms of performance of the ESPs. While the Chair appreciates the importance of those particular questions, really, they are not for now. We
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not wish to take you back, but you have clarified that this issue arose out of a Question and the issue that the Minister needed to clarify was on the allegations of bribery. The Member who alleged that there was bribery walked out just before the Statement was read. What is coming out from the Minister now is that even the documents that were tabled were fake. We were all in the House and supported this because there was documentary evidence. He has misled this House. He took us for a ride and we cannot allow him to continue. I think it will be wrong to allow Members to ruin the integrity of this House using some Standing Orders. The fact that the Chair was also misled in accepting the document as genuine, makes it difficult for us next time to bring documents and you accept them on the strength of signatures because we have not acted as hon. Members. It will be very unfair to allow this Member to get away with this.
Standing Order No.97 and Standing Order No.98 allow a Member who misbehaves that way to be named. Am I in order, given what this Member has done, to ask for his naming by this House so that these things are not repeated again?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not purport to speak for Mr. Mbuvi but I think we will be setting a very bad precedent in this House if we want to condemn Members before hearing them. We cannot know why Mr. Mbuvi walked out. He could have been pressed for other issues. So I think until and unless he comes to either substantiate or support his documentary evidence to show whether it was forgery or not, this House cannot take any allegation. This issue was not listed on the Order Paper, so you cannot say that he had the hindsight on whether the Statement would be delivered or not. Besides that, I want to request that even when we were asking these questions, I think the Chair will recall there were many upstanding Members. This is because this issue of stimulus has evoked many emotions. In fact, because of the benefits we expect it to trickle down to our constituencies. It is a matter we cannot leave uninterrogated. I would want to ask the hon. Minister that the fact that the stimulus projects as regards market stalls has been lagging behind all other stimulus projects, it has been attributed to the fact that they have centralized all the systems of encashment of vouchers and everything else. Contractors have to travel all the way from Turkana with vouchers to come and get payments in Nairobi for them to go back and complete projects. What action is the Minister taking to ensure that because they must lead by example - and the fact that we are going to county governance where his docket is - that they will decentralize the management of these funds including the payment of contractors at the constituency level if not at the district level?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
I thought you had another one which needed to be disposed of? What is it?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect, I appreciate and respect the right of Dr. Nuh to seek clarifications. However, my fear is that we are going to cloud a matter that impacts directly on the dignity of the House. Could I kindly request you to pronounce yourself on this matter?
Order, Eng. Gumbo! The Chair was just going to pronounce itself and you demanded to be heard. Both cannot be done simultaneously! Hon. Members, this is a fairly straightforward matter. The position of the Chair is that the Member brought the documents and the Chair admitted them on the basis we admit documents; that they were signed. The Minister has responded to the allegations and demonstrated that those documents were a forgery. This is a word between one Member of the House and another. I appreciate it raised those kind of issues whether the Member acted in good faith or he was also mislead. I think we must give the benefit of the doubt to the Member for now because he is not in the House. The Chair also needs time to interrogate the documents that were submitted by the Member and the position the Minister has taken. A ruling will then be made by the Chair by notice. Secondly, I also want to make it very clear to the House, as Members have sought. The Standing Orders are very clear that it is our responsibility to communicate matters that we are fully aware to be true. So even before you bring the matter to the House, crosscheck to make sure that it is the correct position and that you are seeking issues from the Executive that you know are correct. So, Eng. Gumbo, bear with the Chair we will deal with it. Mr. Kioni has raised the Standing Order that will be appropriate when the Chair establishes and determines that, indeed, the Member mislead the House. We will invoke our Standing Orders. Let it be very clear. So, we rest that matter!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On the same or a different matter? The Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government will have the last word on the last clarification.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to bring to your attention what you said, that this is a matter between one Member and another Member. There are documents which have been brought to the House from departments of Government, like the Registrar of Companies and the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA). Therefore, it is not really an issue of one Member versus another Member. It is a matter of one Member versus the Minister and departments of Government.
Order, Member for Juja! You are reading the Statement by the Chair selectively. The issue was one Member who brought certain allegations. The other Member who happens to be a Minister has now brought the proper documentation. We are all hon. Members and I want to appreciate that we look at both issues and make the proper ruling.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am concerned. Indulge me to express this concern by your Statement that the Member may have himself been misled by way of the information he tabled in this House. This is a political arena but it is also an arena that is governed by rules; rules of decorum, rules of fair play. When I read Standing Order No.82, it is very specific; a Member shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts which the Member alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate such facts. This Member cannot be excused that he himself may have been misled.
Order, Mr. Namwamba! You are even challenging the Chairâs capacity. You are quoting the same Standing Orders that the Chair had already invoked. Addressing an issue does not mean that it must be on demand. I have said that the Chair must uphold the Standing Orders. The Chair must ensure that both sides are properly heard. When you look at the issue of persistently making allegations, the Member has been absent and cannot even make one allegation. Therefore, he cannot be persistently making the allegations. So let the Chair interrogate the issues you have sought and make a considered ruling. Let us be patient, that ruling will be made and the necessary Standing Orders of the House will be invoked.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take it that I do not have revisit that for now.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to make a Ministerial Statement.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought it would be courteous for the Minister, notwithstanding the fact that he had been interrogated at length previously to, at least, respond to the two clarifications that were sought from him. I do not think they were entirely irrelevant to the matter that was before us.
Order, hon. Ruto! You must learn to listen to the Chair. I disallowed yours! The Minister actually sought from the Chair whether or not to respond and the Chair said that we must remain relevant. The question had been answered and the issue of allegations was the one that was outstanding and that ruling will be made. It shall be so.
Mr. Minister, proceed with the second Statement!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to make a Statement on the unauthorized developments in the City and, in particular, the collapsed building in Embakasi Pipeline Area.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to make the following Statement following the collapse of a building on Plot No.7107/2, located off the North Airport
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is quite sad that Kenyans have to lose lives because of illegal constructions. The Minister has said in this Statement that there will be no mercy on people who are constructing illegal structures in various parts of the country. Yet, he knows that in Thika - and I have written to him - there are several four or five storeyed buildings that have not been approved or inspected. They are deaths-in-waiting for members of the public. What is the policy of the Ministry in as far as approvals of the buildings are concerned? What is the policy on demolition in circumstances where buildings have been erected without due process in terms of inspection and quality of construction? Some of them are being constructed on public land.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I send my condolences to the families that lost their loved ones in this tragedy, I want to make it known that as it stands, we can only delay the occurrence of such tragedies but we will not stop them. The
Order, hon. Gumbo. Seek a clarification and do not cite examples here. You have asked about capacity at City Hall and that is enough.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Karen Triangle Estate, for example in Nairobi, it was demarcated for single dwellings. According to the Director of Planning, it was resolved. How can you resolve to allow high rise buildings when you have not provided sewage and roads? Already constructions are going on which have no regard to road coverage? What is the Minister doing to make sure that the offices--- Members of Karen Triangle have written to the Town Planner. He has ignored all the letters. A tragedy is waiting to happen. How are these assurances going to help the people of Kenya when the officers are not taking action?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, our problem in this country is not the absence of law but the absence of the rule of law. The Minister has said that any action they intended to take on this illegal construction was frustrated by the court process, and in a sense he sounded very helpless. I would want a clarification from the him. Given the case that you have within the court and the reality that we have continued to lose lives in this country because of these illegal constructions falling to pieces, what is the Ministry intending to do? Is there any amendment to the law that you intend to have or in the immediate, what is the Ministry doing to about those structures that are in place, even though illegal?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while commending the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government for this very broad statement on these collapsing building, I would urge him to indicate to this House when the Ministry is going to mount a serious inspection on the bending structures in Nairobi, and particularly in Kayole where you see a building occupied but it is structurally bending.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Minister, Sir, as we move along, I must admit that, indeed, there are some weaknesses in our local authorities across the country when it comes to the issue of enforcing by-laws; by-laws are there but we have had a major weakness either due to corrupt practices or through politicization at local levels. This has, indeed, had an impact on the efforts of local authorities to enforce the law. However, on record, we have been consulting with other relevant Ministries and as I speak now, we have already submitted a new set of regulations to the Attorney-Generalâs Chamber for approval. Once they are through, they will be gazette; there are a lot of stakeholders consultations within the building industry as a whole to try and improve enforcements, and make it more difficult for somebody to engage in illegal construction. So, we have submitted draft regulations and we are waiting for the clearance from the Attorney- Generalâs Chamber. The regulations are very bulky and they to be gazetted.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to also state that we have, indeed, had capacity problems in our local authorities. In fact, by and large, only the big local authorities like Nairobi. Kisumu, Mombasa and so forth have the capacity to employ
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister did not address my concern on the illegal structures coming up at Karen Triangle Estate, which I said was for single dwellings, but multi-storied buildings are coming up with sewer systems, roads and water.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will look at that specific area and will be able to respond separately. With your indulgence, I will need to take note of that and follow up.
Okay, hon. Members, you will appreciate that we are really behind schedule, and we have two statements. One is from the hon. Minister for Education; before I invite him, there is a letter tabled by hon. Gitari, which is about House committee membership. He has signed his own letter asking the Speaker how long a Member is supposed to take before being nominated to the House committees. He has also attached a letter that is supposed to be coming from the Acting Government Chief Whip. But the one from the Acting Government Chief Whip is not signed. So, I will request him to go and look for that signature, if the Chair is to consider his request.
Hon. Prof. Ongeri!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I was requested to make a Ministerial Statement on the loss of Kshs4.2 billion for the Free Primary Education (FPE).
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Education Sector Support Programme was started in 2005 and involved the Government of Kenya and various partners, namely Department for International Development (DFID), World Bank, the United Nations Childrenâs Fund (UNICEF), Canadian International Development Agency (CIDA), Government of Belgium, Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC), World Food Programme, United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the Government of Japan. The contributions of each of these organizations other than the USAID and the Government of Japan were pooled in one basket and managed through the Joint Financing Agreement (JFA). The implementation of this programme has been carried out with close co-ordination and co-operation of all the above stakeholders. The annual budgets were jointly discussed and approved. Quality consultative meetings were held and monitoring and evaluation was also jointly conducted. By December, 2009, a total of Kshs464,860,106,029 had been disbursed by all the stakeholders in Kenya Education Sector Support Programme (KESSEP), the Government of Kenya having contributed the larger share of Kshs438,788,188,700. The genesis of the problem; this arose out of misappropriation of imprest that had been given to the officers in the Financial Year, 2008/2009. Following this, I initiated an audit, in conjunction with the Permanent Secretary, to verify these misappropriations. This represented 0.5 per cent of the targeted population at the Ministry headquarters. On receipt of the report, it was discussed and agreed that there was a need to conduct an extended audit because the fiduciary audit by the internal audit department concentrated on a small sample. The scope of the extended audit was captured in the audit, which was laid before this House by Rt. Hon. Prime Minister on 15th June, 2011, at paragraph 4, which states as follows:-
1. The extended forensic audit was to cover a period between 1st July, 2005 and June, 30th 2009.
2. It was to be undertaken in two stages, the first stage desk or offsite reviews and focus on tracking of disbursements for FPE funds, from the Consolidated Fund to the Ministry of Education, then to commercial banks up to the respective schools bank accounts. If you examine that report, which was tabled yesterday, it will give schematic representation on the flow of funds. 3. The second stage involved making physical on site visits---
Mr. Minister, how long is your document?
It is just two pages, I will summarise it! It is very important that I make this point very clear, on the basis of flying stories all over the place!
You can still make it clear in a summarised form!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I became the Minister for Education in 2008. Less than 12 months despite the preoccupation with the Serena National Accord and Reconciliation talks and students strikes, I was able to detect this discrepancy in accounting procedures leading to the extended forensic audit, together with the support of the development partners. It is important to note that the draft report was given to my Ministry on 10th November, to respond to key issues that had been raised by the audit team. Originally, the figure queried by the auditors stood at Kshs8.2 billion. This was scaled down to Kshs4.2 billion following admission of the relevant supporting documents by the staff of the Accounts Department. The Kshs4.2 billion that has been declared unaccounted for by the forensic audit report, comprises of Kshs2,274,629,818 arising out of discrepancies in the financial monitoring reports, popularly known as the FMRs, and Kshs1,936,000,000 disbursed to schools for development of physical infrastructure. FMRs are the standard documents used by the World Bank to capture the funds available for a programme and the application of the funds to various activities within the programmes. It also serves as the basis for further disbursement of funds to a programme. In respect of KESSEP, FMRs were prepared from 2005 to 30th of June, 2009. The preparation was jointly done by the officials from my Ministry and the World Bank. The FMRs would then be submitted to both the Ministry of Finance and the World Bank. It is important to note that the FMRs were prepared on an annual and cumulative basis for the entire period of the programme. The discrepancy in the FMRs remain outstanding due to the fact that officers who were involved in preparing the FMRs were all transferred between September and December, 2010. That is limiting our ability to reconstruct the FMRs. I am summoning through the Treasury, because they are basically Treasury officers seconded to the Ministry, that they should avail themselves on this issue. As mentioned above, the FMRs were prepared by officers from accounts and finance departments and there is no way I could have controlled or participated, whatsoever in this process, which commenced in 2005, when I was not the substantive Minister for Education. With regard to the Standard Chartered Bank SKE payments of Kshs1,936,000,000, the Ministry disbursed Kshs1,936,000,000 to 26,000 primary schools for infrastructure developments. The forensic auditors queried the disbursement of these funds to schools due to non-availability of relevant documents. The auditors sampled out 512 schools out of the 26,000 schools and confirmed that there were anomalies in some of these schools regarding receipt of funds as follows:-
(i) Documentary evidence from various banks indicated that whereas funds were remitted to school accounts, they were banked in different bank accounts;
(ii) Beneficiary schools did not have TSC codes.
(iii) Payment to schools which are not TSC registered,
(iv) Similar beneficiary bank account numbers, but different schools. One beneficiary account number, but different schools.
All these details are contained in the fiduciary audit report tabled here yesterday. It is important to note to the hon. Members that forensic auditors recommended that the entire disbursement of Kshs1,936,000,000 to 26,000 primary schools be entirely set aside for further investigations. Treasury has seen it fit to refer the matter to the Director of
Order, Prof. Ongeri! Are you concluding?
Yes, I am concluding, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my conscience is free and clear because I have done my duty to the best of my ability. I realise that this being an election year, some people would like to engage in smear campaigns. I continue to remain committed to the sacred duty of discharging my responsibility with commitment and dedication without fear or favour.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, hon. Members! This is advice from the Chair. First, we have Finance matters before us and we have already exceeded the time limit from 3.30 p.m. to about 5.00 p.m. Indeed, that business requires a maximum of three hours. Secondly, the matter the Minister for Education has raised today was actually dealt with exhaustively yesterday during the Prime Ministerâs Time.
Order, hon. Members! Are you disputing the facts? I do appreciate the public interest in the matter, and that is why I allowed the Minister to also pronounce himself on the same. I wish there was a way of deferring clarifications, but since I allowed the Minister to make the Statement, I must also allow some few clarifications.
Those are not few hon. Members! I will give a chance to four hon. Members to seek clarification from the first row, one from the second, one from the other end and then this one. Just raise one issue and do not explain!
Proceed, Mr. Mbadi!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I listened to the Minister and, to me, it appears that the problem in this Ministry was reconciliation. Otherwise, this thing would have been discovered long time ago.
I would like to ask the Minister categorically and I am speaking to him as an accountant, what has he done to the senior staff in the internal audit and finance departments? This is because he will, otherwise, carry the cross of some rogue staff in his office. I bet he has no capacity to even know that things like these happened in his Ministry. I am not exonerating him but I am speaking the facts.
Finally, I wonder whether he got management letters from the external auditor; that is the Controller and Auditor-General. Was there any mention of such an anomaly from 2005 to 2009? I find negligence also on the part of the external auditors, but could the Minister clarify whether there was any mention of such an anomaly in the management letters which come out every year?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Minister come out clear and tell us when he detected the anomalies? At what time did he detect the anomalies? Secondly, what were the authorization levels of the officers who were concerned? Normally, if money is sent through Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT)---
Order! Do not explain! You have sought two clarifications! Yes, Mr. Letimalo!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. If I got the Minister correctly, he said that---
Order, Mr. Letimalo! Seek your clarification. Do not restate the facts!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, mine is a clarification. The Minister has said that Kshs1 billion was set aside for physical infrastructural development in schools. Could he tell us how many schools have been affected as a result of this loss? What arrangements has he put in place to ensure that school programmes are not affected as a result of this loss?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I want to inform the House that the Public Accounts Committee resolved this morning that we will also take up the report, study it and make a report to this House on that matter. One of the problems which has been highlighted in audit reports is lack of proper financial system to
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I heard the Minister say that the matter has now been referred to the police to investigate. He has also talked about rogue officers in the department. How will the police investigate when the rogue officers are still on their desks doing their job? How will the police get the chance to investigate those officers? I thought the Minister would tell us that he will make sure that the rogue officers are out so that investigations can take place effectively.
We will have the hon. Member for Kiharu, then hon. Kioni and finish with hon. Dr. Nuh.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, earlier on in this House, the Minister stated that the infrastructure in our schools and, more so, in our primary schools, were not affected. Today, he said that the loss would affect the infrastructure. Could he clarify the effects that, that kind of abuse will have on infrastructure and, more so, with regard to improvement and construction of primary schools?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like the Minister to clarify - because he has said that, that money was released from banks â whether there was a schedule prepared by his Ministry for the money to be released to 26,000 schools and who prepared the schedules. That is because banks can only release the money against a schedule from the Ministry? Which are those banks? Is it one bank? He knows the names of those banks. It would be important if he could tell us the banks involved. Finally, was he in charge when the schedules were being prepared by the Ministry?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are disappointed not with hon. Ongeri, but with the whole Government. That is because it was none other than the Prime Minister who categorically stated yesterday that they were forced to release the report to public domain by the World Bank. They had the report since October last year. More importantly, I want to ask the following: Since the Minister has said that the infrastructure of some schools was affected, what affirmative action has he put in place to ensure that the schools that were affected by the embezzlement have been compensated?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have been told here, time and again, about collective responsibility. The Minister has given information to the House that it was between 2003 and 2005 that certain things happened. Has he recommended to His Excellency the President that the Minister then takes responsibility and be investigated? We know that he was not the Minister then.
Order! You have sought your clarification. Proceed, Mr. Minister and you summarize.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will pick up the questions by hon. Dr. Nuh, hon. Kioni and the Member for Kiharu because they are more or less similar. I will answer them in one round. The infrastructure money of Kshs1.9 billion was going to 26,000 primary schools in the Republic of Kenya. The audit covered 512 schools. There is something here that hon. Members want to appreciate, that, indeed, the discrepancy occurred in 512 schools.
Order! Mr. Minister. Just a clarification; there are 26,000 schools and only 512 were affected. It is not 512,000?
That is correct, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Only 512 schools were affected. That is where the anomalies are and that is where the police are zeroing in. There is an impression being created that, that money was never sent to the schools. This is another thing that I want to pursue further.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House that only 512 schools were affected, when we know that the 512 were just a sample of the ones that were investigated out of the 26,000?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House by stating that, out of the total amount in question of Kshs4.2 billion, Kshs1.9 billion was transferred to 26,000 schools? Here is a case where the amount in dispute is affecting 520 schools. That figure does not actually add up.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead the House that the monies were, indeed, sent to schools when he, himself, on the Floor of the House, pronounced that monies were sent to schools that do not exist as per the TSC rules?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if hon. Members listened to me---
Let us finalize with Ms. Karua. That is because, Mr. Minister, when you were responding, the figures sounded quite conflicting.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Due to the enormity of the matter and the interest the House has shown, is it in order for the Chair to direct the Minister to go back and reconcile the figures and come to explain?
Order! Mr. Minister, you know that the Chair has been agonizing and I am happy that this is coming from the Members side. That is because they are deferring their right to interrogate you. I think you should be happier because you have pronounced yourself. That is what we needed more. Due to time considerations, let us leave that matter in abeyance so that you get another opportunity when you can do justice to it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, because this is likely to cause tremendous confusion out there, the figure that we are talking about is Kshs4.2 billion. If you listened to my Statement very carefully, the FMR represents Kshs2.2 billion. It is not reconciled. I think we must get that clear. If you add Kshs1.9 billion for infrastructure, that comes to Kshs4.1 billion. So, the question of reconciling this figure later--- This can cause tremendous confusion. There is no need to
Order, Minister! You are not supposed to number your officers. They occupy certain positions.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just said the Chief Finance Officer, the Principal Accountant I in the Ministry, the deputy to the Principal Accountant and the Internal Auditor. They are four. I think, as clearly stated out, those officers, including the clerks---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister wants to give an impression that things are okay. He says Kshs2.2 billion is unreconcilled. It could be stolen or wherever it is. He says Kshs1.9 billion from banks has been sent to schools that, probably, are not known. I would want to urge the Chair to see what Ms. Karua had asked for, a situation where he goes and finds out the exact position in terms of reconciliation of Kshs2.2 billion and authority of Kshs1.9 billion and in which schools. This is Kshs4.2 billion of taxpayersâ money.
Hon. Minister, the Chair now directs you, for your own good--- You know it is very clear in your head, but you are responding to clarifications from hon. Members and they do not seem to get your figures. The Chair is also cognizant that the answers coming from your Ministry this week have been wanting in terms of the arithmetic. This is an opportunity the House has given you to take your time. You have pronounced yourself and I think that was the most important contribution you needed to make and be satisfied that we will leave this matter in abeyance and we will bring it when there is sufficient time to prosecute the matter and also to allow you to reconcile the figures. They may not be clear to you, but I am sure it is in the HANSARD. You can look at what the hon. Members have sought and then you can try to report accordingly, so that we can make progress.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will do so, provided I have protection from this hon. House because the figures being quoted outside there are erroneous figures. They are meant to injure my character. I need protection from this House.
Order, Mr. Minister! The Chair will definitely protect each and every hon. Member. You have already put a report. I am sure you have put the figures that you consider to be the correct figures. Those figures will be carried in the HANSARD and, hopefully, even the media will capture your figures.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Mbuvi, you do not have the Floor. Your matter was disposed of by the Chair. You will have an opportunity to respond when the Chair will be making that ruling.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister never alerted me that he was---
Order, Mr. Mbuvi! Your matter was deliberated on quite at length. I think you should be very appreciative of the Chair for giving you time and an opportunity to be able to make your representations to the Chair, not on the Floor of the House before the ruling is made. That matter must rest there.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order No.36(4) I take this opportunity to make the following Statement with regard to the business for the week. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first allow me to congratulate Members of this House for their untiring spirit that was demonstrated yesterday where hon. Members sat past 9.00 p.m. This allowed hon. Members to ventilate adequately and eventually approve the nominees for the offices of the Chief Justice, the Deputy Chief Justice and the Director of Public Prosecutions. This unprecedented process has placed Kenya ahead in the league of other nations in setting up of one of the most credible judicial systems in the world. Having stayed without a Chief Justice for almost four months, we hope that once gazzetted, these officers will hit the ground running and provide service to Kenyans. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Members also deliberated and passed the critical Second Reading Stage of the Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill, Bill No.11 of 2011 which is listed today for debate and consideration in the Committee of the whole House. I would like to say there was unanimity in terms of the amendments that were required and they will be coming at the Committee Stage. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Tuesday, 14th June, 2011, the House Business Committee, during its sitting. resolved that the House should go on a short recess. This recess is obviously to facilitate the work on the Budget by the various committees and to allow the public to participate through public representation. Without anticipating debate on this Motion which is listed on the Order Paper and which will be coming later, the month-long adjournment will allow Committees to scrutinize the annual estimates and also seek public representation on them before making these reports to the House. The reports will then be used in consideration of various Votes in the Committee of Supply. Given these circumstances and if the House so decides today, you appreciate that we have not anticipated any business next week because we expect to be on recess
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:- THAT, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No.20(2); this House resolves that the Sitting Time of the House today, Thursday, 16th June, 2011, be extended until the Business as set out in the Order Paper is concluded. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me, once again, congratulate hon. Members for having agreed yesterday to stay on and we were able to finish the business that was there on the Order Paper. As you will notice, it is now 5.15 p.m. and we need three hours for the various financial Bills that are with us, the Vote on Account and the guarantee which is required for support of the Budget. We also need to pass the Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill which we need, so that we can start the new financial year with the offices. Another three hours will be required for the Motion for Adjournment to facilitate us to go on the one month break so that we can go and sort out our Constituencies Development Funds and get the Committees moving. Hence we cannot package all that within the one and a quarter hours that is remaining. So, I really want to ask hon. Members that we do as we promised Kenyans to do; we add extra time to sit. We dispose of this business in the House today and then we can all go home feeling we have achieved. I beg to move. I would like to ask the real stakeholders in this matter of adjournment and in terms of wanting to conclude business today, Mr. Ogindo to second.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! Members, first you need to know that Order No.9 should take a maximum of three hours. So, be prepared. We have just passed a Motion that we must conclude all business on the Order Paper. So, as you raise your points of order, take that into account.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want to interrupt the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance before
Order, hon. Oyongo Nyamweya! Let us have the matter properly before the House. I thought you were raising a different point of order. What is it, hon. Mbadi? I hope you are listening!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to ask for your direction believing that this Motion that is before us is unconstitutional. I contend that this Motion is unconstitutional because if you go to the Constitution and the Minister has quoted, âpreparing this Vote on Account in accordance with Article 222â, that Article envisages or presupposes that Article 222(1) is complied with. So, if you read Article 222(1), it says:- âIf the Appropriation Act for a financial year has not been---â
Order, hon. Mbadi! I had made a ruling to hon. Oyongo Nyamweyaâs point of order that we should have the Motion itself before the House, then you will have a matter to raise. You will, but let us get the Minister, at least, attempt to move the Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, in accordance with Section 222 of the Constitution of Kenya, the withdrawal of Kshs368,316,172,939, representing one-half of the total net estimates of Recurrent and Development Expenditures made up in the manner set out in the Vote on Account Schedules laid in the House be authorized for the purpose of meeting expenditure necessary to carry out the services of the Government of Kenya during the year ending 30th June, 2012, until such time as the Appropriation Act for the year comes into operation.
Hon. Minister, you should never anticipate! You are supposed to act as if there is no objection.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I stated earlier, this Motion is moved on the basis of Article 222 of the Constitution which provides that there is a possibility that the financial year can come to an end before the Appropriation Act is passed or assented to. In the old order which we have left, it was proper and appropriate to bring the Vote on Account even before the Revenue and Expenditure Estimates are approved. But right now, it should be understood that it is the responsibility of Parliament to have the final say in the Budget making process. It is no longer an Executiveâs exclusive role. So, if you go to Article 221(6), it says :- âWhen the estimates of national Government expenditure and the estimates of expenditure for the Judiciary and Parliament have been approved by the National Assembly, they shall be included in an Appropriation Bill, which shall be introduced into the National Assembly to authorize the withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund of the money needed for the expenditure, and for the appropriation of that money for the purposes mentioned in the Billâ. This Article makes it mandatory that Parliament has to first of all approve the estimates of revenue and expenditure before the Appropriation Bill is passed. That being
Order, hon. Mbadi! You cannot purport to give problems and solutions at the same time. This is not a debate when you can provide cures. You rose on a point of order and so, you can only state which order was breached. When you state an order that is breached, you cannot purport to be curing the same order. Others will do it.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point or order pursuant to Article 222 of the Constitution, which says that---
Order! Hon. Ogindo! I hope you will stick to Article 222 because your predecessor spoke of Article 222 and then Article 221.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Article 222 provides that the Government will have an authority on Vote on Account of not more than 50 per cent. Looking at the Schedule given here, the total Vote is Kshs736,632,345,877.
Order! Hon. Ogindo, let us be together. You are on which page?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am on page 2505. The 50 per cent of that is Kshs368,316,172,938.50. This is a constitutional matter. I had raised this point of order before and I am raising it again. The materiality of the issue notwithstanding, if we go ahead with this Motion, we shall have breached this Constitution. On that account, I ask for your ruling that this Motion be declared unconstitutional.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. While I consider the gravity of the matter as to whether the Government should run or not and that we need the money, I think the Treasuryâs failure cannot be used to hoodwink this House to circumvent the law when they think it is necessary. Time and again, the Budget Committee has been making recommendations and appeals, letters and all sorts of cajoling for the Ministry of Finance to ensure that they are able to table the estimates in good time. This is because we would not have been into this trouble they have taken us today. But, I think maybe they knew the goodwill of this House, whatever they will bring that entails money; and that the Government has to run then we would approve it. I do not think this is the basis on which we made laws for us to follow.
Order, hon. Members! We need to make use of the time of this House. I would really entertain as many points of order as possible and as necessary. I think I like the word, ânecessaryâ. The point of order from Mr. John Mbadi on Article 221(6) of the Constitution and the one from Dr. Nuh from Article 221(4), I think are not reading the Motion before us. The Motion before us has correctly reflected Article 222. It says, âBefore the Appropriation Billâ. Mr. Mbadi, you are making references to what should be done in the formulation of the Appropriation Bill. That time will come and I will grant you your wish that time. What Dr. Nuh is also suggesting in terms of the Committee, indeed, the estimates are already before the House Budget Committee. So they will be prosecuted. So, hon. Members, the only issue that is relevant is the one raised by Mr. Martin Ogindo on 50 cents.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank you for that wonderful and very wise ruling that the Motion before us is properly before the House. I will address myself on the issue of 50 cents. It is normal Government regulation and ---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Sambu, he is already on a point of order! I know you are the Vice Chairperson of the Budget Committee and by virtue of that position, you will always be considered. Therefore, relax for now. Mr. Githae, please, proceed!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not address the ruling you have made because I think it is right. We accept it and clearly people were jumping the gun. I will address myself to the issue of the 50 cents. According to Mr. Ogingo, the last figure should be 938.50---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. For the information of the hon. Member, my name is âOgindoâ and not âOgingoâ.
That is exactly what I said, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Minister! You may not have heard what came from your mouth. The Member is right. Just take that as good advice and proceed!
I stand corrected, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is normal Government policy that
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know why the Government is contesting this. That should be rounded down because it is not more than--- With your permission please, I ask that the point of order that I raised be understood.
Order, Mr. Mbadi! You cannot be persistent in raising points of order on a matter the Chair has disposed of. If you did not formulate your point of order in a better way, it is not the problem of the Chair. I am only entertaining the issue of 50 cents. I think Mr. Martin Ogindo is correct because Article 222 (2) (b) talks about âNot exceedingâ. So, anything that exceeds is unconstitutional! So that is what we should cure. Mr. Githae, you had the Floor, please proceed!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, to err is human and anybody can err. We are saying that we cannot shut the Government because of 50 cents. We can amend the figures. They are not cast in stone. This is an error. I think what the Treasury has done is that instead of rounding down, they have rounded up. To that extent---
Hon. Members, we are not going to debate this matter. The only matter I will entertain is the one remedying the 50 cents business.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that we can move forward, the Minister has agreed to round up the figure downwards. We accept that so that we can move and go to the debate. I beg you to allow the Minister to move an amendment.
Minister, can you move the amendment?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have gone through page 2505 where it is written in small letters:- âEstimates showing the several services for which a Vote on Account is required for the Financial Year ending 30th June 2011â. That is what is stated here. One can say that, that is a complete error. If you go to the next page 2504 it repeats the same thing; 30th June 2011. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, We need your guidance. What are we doing in this House? The people at the Treasury have done the Budget, how do we trust the figures they have given us? How do we trust what is written here?
Hon. Members, the submission by Mr. Oyongo Nyamweya is actually right. Our Standing Orders are very clear; we must be very accurate with the information we give. You cannot tell me that it was just an oversight. Therefore, that must also be corrected. Since the Minister has already started moving the Motion and, therefore, cannot make an amendment, the Seconder can make the necessary amendments to reduce the 50 cents.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I need to move, then you put the Question in order for the amendments to apply.
Order! You know we have procedures and that is my job. One, the issues raised are weighty matters on small points but they are still weighty because we are talking about the Constitution. You cannot also tell me that you can just round up figures. We are also talking about money matters. It has two decimal places and not one or four. You can reduce it to the necessary decimal places, especially when the provision is so expressed ânot exceeding.â So, anything on top is exceeding. I also appreciate that the business before us is very critical. So, we should not also destroy the matter on the basis of technicalities which can be redeemed.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. While the Minister looks at his figures, is it in order to ask that the Committee of the whole House, of the one-page Bill be entertained?
Order! Order! I am actually trying to assist because even to get to another Order when another one is in the middle requires another procedure. I, therefore, want to rule under Standing Order No.48 that the Minister may move the Motion as amended.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, in accordance with Section 222 of the Constitution of Kenya, the withdrawal of Kenya Shillings 368,316,172,938 representing one half of the total net Estimates of Recurrent and Development Expenditure made up in the manner set out in the Vote on Account Schedules laid in the House, be authorized for the purpose of meeting expenditure necessary to carry out the services of the Government of Kenya during the year ending on 30th June, 2012, until such time as the Appropriation Act for the year comes into operation.
( His Excellency the President has given consent to this Motion)
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the schedules, as I have stated, will be amended to read â2011/2012 Financial Yearâ. Indeed, the vote on the Ministry of Transport will be reduced by one shilling from Kshs2,017,212,050 to 2,017,211,050. I want to thank hon. Members especially for their attention in the minor details. It is their job and, indeed, we encourage them to continue in that manner.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having finalized and formulated the Budget, the real challenge really lies in its implementation. Line Ministries are, therefore, expected to efficiently implement the planned programmed, to ensure that they are completed within the sector and schedules.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister has done well in amending the figure in the Motion on the totals on page 2505. But there is one line, Ministry of Fisheries Development, which has caused that. The figure should have ended with 87, but that has not been amended. Could he amend that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am grateful for the input.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this very important Motion. In seconding this Motion, I really want to appreciate the sharp eyes that we have in the membership of hon. Ogindo and hon. Mbadi. I can see that our Budget will be safe in terms of really looking into the figures. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is obviously very clear that even if the estimates had been tabled two months before, given the calendar of events in terms of all the public participation that is required and the preparation of the Bill, we would not have come up with an Appropriation Bill by 1st July, 2011. So, the framers of our Constitution were very clever and did anticipate that even with the best of intention, there will come a time when 1st July comes and we do not have an Appropriation Bill ready and yet, the Government must continue. People must be paid their salaries, but more importantly, there must be a very clear signal to the people that services will not be disrupted. That is because that could send signals that could get our exchange rate going up and our markets collapsing. It has happened in the US when we had that impasse between the Senate and White House. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very straightforward Motion. I know that Members have looked at it and going by the intervention that came before, it is obviously very clear that the scrutiny will continue. But for that to happen and for us to ensure that all technical officers will be paid and the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) monies will be released, I imagine that we are all very keen to ensure that we give the Minister the authority to start spending and planning on the disbursement of those monies so that, come 1st July, the monies will be in the counties and that all the Ministries are ready to start implementing. This will ensure that even me at the Ministry of Transport, I do not end up becoming the last one among the Ministries next time round.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I stand here and I am feeling very bad that the Ministry of Transport was last on the rankings today for the 2009/2010 Financial year; now that I am there, I hope to turn it round. I am told that if you are last and everyone says about turn, then the last shall be the first. So, I am hoping that, that will be the situation. So, let us move with speed. Let us have this money and start making progress, so that those who are last can be first and those who are first can try to retain their position.
With those words, I beg to second.
( Question proposed)
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have no problem with the Vote on Account, but I have only a problem with the Constitution. We are actually not complying with the Constitution from time to time. Article 221(1) gives the way forward for preparing the Budget and it was not followed. We also told the Minister to come to the House and render an apology for not following the Constitution but that was not done. The apology was not forthcoming. We are even now breaching the Constitution, because, to me, Article 221(6) is very much linked to article 222 that has been quoted. For the purpose of clarity, let me read Article 221(6) which says:
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion. I want to say from the outset that the points of order and the problems hon. Members are having arise from the failure initially by the Minister to comply with the Constitution, and table the estimates two months before the date when they were presented to Parliament. I am hoping that the Government will learn its lesson and, henceforth, present the estimates in accordance with the Constitution, so that all these queries come up during the hearings, including the 50 cents or one shilling. That would have been adjusted during those hearings.
We do need the money nevertheless. We are aware that there is drought and hunger in several parts of the country. We have seen pictures or images of people who are really suffering. We just hope that once this is passed, this money will be put to good use and the people who are dying of hunger will be rescued.
I am looking at the allocations for water, and priority should be given to those areas because even after they receive relief food, there is no water to cook it. They still have to suffer looking for water. We expect that this Vote on Account will really have a meaning to the people of Kenya.
I am looking at the allocation to the National Intelligence Security Service (NSIS), which is a whooping Kshs6 billion and I am thinking that this is where the leakages occur. These monies are not audited. This Constitution does not exempt any single Ministry from audit. As a Parliament, we will be failing if we do not now start insisting on audited accounts of all Votes, including the so-called âconfidential Votesâ. A committee of this Parliament is capable of scrutinising anything that belongs to the Republic of Kenya. We do not want to sit and imagine that the Kshs6 billion is going to partisan political campaigns when people are dying of hunger.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have seen the huge allocation to the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. It is now the chance of that Ministry to demonstrate that it can give security to all areas, especially the areas that have suffered from invasions from outside the country.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, initially I wanted to oppose this Motion. However, looking at the wider interests of this country, I beg to support it very reluctantly. The first issue I raised is with regard to the constitutionality. I want the Government to listen and understand that the budgeting making has shifted from the Executive to Parliament. That is the Constitution that we passed. Therefore, the Budget Estimates need approval by this House before we allow even one cent to be spent. We can wait for the Appropriation Bill, yes, but we cannot spend before the Budget Estimates are finally approved. That is the spirit of this Constitution. That is why the Constitution provides that the Minister should table Budget Estimates in this House, at least, two months before the end of financial year. By tabling these estimates, various Committees of the House will have enough time to look the Budget Estimates, revenue and expenditure proposed. If there any changes, they can propose those changes to Parliament. Then Parliament debates and approves the Budget. The only thing that is envisaged in this Constitution with regard to Vote on Account are circumstances where the end of financial year comes, and the Appropriations Bill has not been passed or has been passed but has not been assented to, to become Appropriations Act. I hope and believe with your ruling, we have not violated the Constitution, But I fear that we have. Having said that, I find it difficult to give this Government authority to spend up to 50 per cent of the Budget; yet it has not been able to explain the various revenue collections in previous years.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you remember, I sought for a Ministerial Statement in this House from the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance with regard to discrepancies under various revenue heads. The Government, up to now, has failed to offer an explanation to this country on why the Treasury has been giving conflicting figures to this House. I just want to refresh the minds of Members of this House that this same Government brings two different sets of account for the same revenue head. This issue has not been addressed. Therefore, I find it a bit difficult to support this Motion. Moreover, the Controller and Auditor General has been certifying our accounts. In accounting terminology, the Controller and Auditor-General has been qualifying our accounts all through. Out of about 14 revenue heads, only one was certified in 2007/2008 Financial Year. Only three were certified in 2008/2009 Financial Year out of 13. How are we sure that the money the citizens of this country pay in form of taxes go to the right account? What is in Consolidated Account is different from what is collected. The Kenya Revenue Authority reports different figures; figures that are tabled in this House. What the Controller and Auditor-General find in the Exchequer
Hon. Mbadi, you are at liberty to make use of your good time!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just about to finalize because I am mindful of other peopleâs welfare and rights to speak as well.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my final comments is that we have spoken about this before. There is no rational in the Treasury always bringing to us 50 per cent of every line. What is the justification? We keep on repeating this. Minister, when you are seeking approval for Vote on Account, please, explain to us, why, for example, the National Intelligence Security Services (NSIS) needs Kshs6 billion. We just gave them Kshs5 billion the other day. Why do they need Kshs6 billion now? Why can it not wait? If there is some urgent payment to be made like maybe for road construction, we would understand. But if you are giving us just 50 per cent of everything this, to me, is a lazy way of bringing figures in this House. Please, let us improve in the way we do things. Let us change. Let us not just do things, because they have always been done. This country is changing. So, next time, I hope my plea will be heeded. Next time, we want variation in figures and explanatory notes, explaining to us that, âon this line, we are asking for this because we want to do, 1, 2, 3 and 4, between these two or three months,â so that we are sure that we are exercising our oversight role effectively.
Otherwise, as I said, I reluctantly support this Motion.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me start by saying that while it is very important for us to pass this Vote on Account, there are quite a number of issues that we must raise concern about. I want to support the Vote on Account, but I cannot fail to mention that on some issues, I wonder why we have to give 50 per cent, yet we know that they will not be able to do anything significant with that 50 per cent. For salaries, we can understand. There must be money to pay salaries. However, for some issues on Development Expenditure, I do not see why we should pass some of these figures. We know that even after we pass them, there is very little they would do, other than to wait for the other monies. Even if they undertake construction or purchase of whatever equipment, they will not be able to finish the process until they receive the full amount. In a way, this tends to push the price of projects upwards. A good example is when the Ministry procures goods from suppliers. They always procure them on credit. Very many simple items such as ball points are sold for Kshs100, when we know that they cost only Kshs20. To me, this is because goods are accessed on credit. If you look at some of the construction works that have been going on, for example Embu Provincial General Hospital, there are many ghost projects. Most of the
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to support this Motion and as I do so, I agree with the direction of the Speaker that this Motion is actually constitutional. The heading of Article 222, and I believe there is no one Article that is superior or inferior to the other in this Constitution is: âExpenditure before Annual Budget is Passed.â I think the argument that we have not done what others have been saying is not accurate because Article 222, in my opinion, clearly allows the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to do what he has done.
Secondly, I want to thank and congratulate the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) and the President for the quick action in appointing Judges of the Supreme Court because this will now bring to an end issues of interpretation of the Constitution. Whatever it is that we are in doubt then, other than for purposes of allowing us to move on, where we want to know exactly what the Constitution provides, we should be able now to refer it to the Supreme Court.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion for many reasons, many of which have been mentioned by the speakers before me. First, hunger is looming in the country and it is important that the Government has the capacity to mitigate or ensure that none of our own dies because of hunger.
Secondly, the Member for Turkana Central who is now occupying the Chair has on many occasions complained and urged the Government to ensure that the continued killing of our people along the border is stopped. For the Government to be able to ensure that security is available to all Kenyans, especially within the areas that border countries that are to some extent, unstable, there is need for money and that money cannot be available if we do not pass this Motion.
Thirdly, we have issues of defence which have been mentioned. I sit in the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations and I know, as a Member of that Committee, that â without any defence to the Department of Defence â there is
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. At the outset, let me start by supporting the Motion, but I wish the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance was around because there are certain developments that are very disturbing. Maybe the technocrats seated at the other end will be able to explain certain things to Kenyans. Six months ago, inflation in our country was just at about 3.8 per cent and within six months, we are talking about inflation being at 13 per cent.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you remember very well the time we experienced that kind of instant jump in inflation, you will find that it is during the Goldenberg time when some very strange money came into the market. We would like the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance to physically look at various Ministries and find out exactly what is happening because that graph is all of a sudden. From 3.8 per cent inflation and within six months, we are talking about 13 per cent, definitely, there is something wrong somewhere and I wish the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance was here. Of course, we know there are two issues that
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would not wish to disrupt this debate and, particularly, the Chief Whip. However, I would like to seek your guidance. Article 221(6) says that when the Estimates of the national Government Expenditure and Estimates of Expenditure for the Judiciary and Parliament have been approved by the National Assembly, they shall be included in an Appropriation Bill which shall be introduced into the National Assembly to authorize the withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund of the money needed for the expenditure, and for the appropriation of that money for the purposes mentioned in the Bill. After they have been approved by the National Assembly, then they should be authorized for withdrawal from the Consolidated Fund. We are just about to do that. The guidance I want from you is: At what point will we do the approval of the expenditure estimates? It is critical that, that is clarified. This is a House. We are in a hurry. I know that the money is needed even in Rangwe, as much as it is needed in Othaya, but, it is important that we follow the law. Further to that, the Speaker ruled in his earlier ruling that the Budget Committee had 21 days to present a report here. That was in view of the fact that we needed the House to approve the estimates so that a Vote on Account could follow. So, now that we are moving ahead, at what point will we do the approval?
Hon. Midiwo, you will allow the Chair to discharge its obligation. The Chair has been invited to make a ruling. This is not a matter that is contentious. First and foremost, the Chair gave a Communication from the Chair yesterday on the process that we are going to follow. The estimates were committed to the Budget Committee and that, to me, is according to part 4. The Chair also gave a time-table on how we will go to receive public recommendations. That will be part 5 of 221. The Chair also gave you 21 days to complete all that you needed to complete so that, by the end of those 21 days, you are supposed to be ready and bring your report to the House. The House, in part 3, shall consider the estimates submitted under Section 1. That is the procedure, hon. Ogindo. Today, we are not approving the Budget. We are allowing Government to run. We are giving them 50 per cent of the money and that really applies to part 2. They are not contradictory. That is the Considered Ruling of the Chair. This is very openly expressed. So, hon. Ogindo, I know that you are a very good Member of the Budget Committee and I appreciate your enthusiasm and interest in this matter. Let us dispose this matter because we have already proceeded with it. We will have the opportunity to bring the estimates for approval.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to support this Motion. In so doing, I would like to plead with my friends, hon. Ogindo and hon. Sambu that, the new Constitution envisages the current circumstances. I think we are in this scenario
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I also want to support this Motion. Everybody agrees that we need to have a Budget. We are not ready for a shut- down come the end of the financial year. The new Constitution is not a recipe for anarchy and chaos, but it is meant towards improving financial management of the country. Even though there has been controversy about the transitional process for the implementation; if any clarity was needed, the recent Speakerâs ruling was clear on the point; namely that the Minister for Finance or the Cabinet Secretary in charge of finance must present estimates before the House at least two months beginning in the future. But in the circumstances that we are in today, given that period had already lapsed, it was proposed that we still go ahead to refer the Budget Estimates by the Finance Minister to the same Budget Committee to work on them and present its own report before the House. In those circumstances, Parliament will still have to proceed to ensure that come the end of the financial year, Government functions continue to run and that all the services that are needed to be given to Kenyans and continue. The country is in the middle of serious economic challenges. We have a lot of development programmes and efforts that are going on that need to be sustained. We have social services, as other hon. Members have mentioned, that need to be sustained as part of our social existence.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, at the constituency level, secondary and primary schools heads are complaining that the Governmentâs contribution to the free
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. I just want to talk on one main issue, namely, drought, which I believe really affects other sectors. I know that Kenya as a country has experienced drought, but it is more severe in the ASAL areas. I wish the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance and by extension the Cabinet Ministers listen to us when we talk about the effects of drought, mostly in the ASAL areas. Kenyans have witnessed the disturbing pictures on television of people who are affected by drought. These are hungry people fighting over resources. This is really a matter of concern because it creates instability among these communities. While I appreciate that the Government provides relief food to these affected communities, we are equally concerned that the distribution of this relief food is wanting. It is easy for the Ministry of State for Special Programmes to distribute food just by giving figures, but not ensuring that food is available at the National Cereals and Produce Board depots. We get copies of letters showing that, for example, Samburu East has been allocated 1,000 bags of maize, so many bags of beans and several cartons of cooking oil. But when you go to the depot, the food is not available. This is just what the people depend on. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are talking of people whose livelihood is livestock. Once it is dry, livestock is the first lot to suffer because there will be no water and pasture. This is what people depend on. So, in the absence of the produce from livestock, the people depend on the relief food that comes from the Government. So, what happens when these letters are written, you see the figures, but the food is not available in the depots. So, we are making an appeal to the Government and more specifically to the Ministries concerned, namely, the Ministry of State for Special Programmes and the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, to ensure that once this food is distributed, then they ensure that the food is available at the depots, particularly, maize. Secondly, it is not just enough that food is distributed, but there is no means of transport to transport this food to the needy people. You will find that in a county, you have only one lorry that goes round the districts that are in that county. So, people have to
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Looking at the mood in the House, I think we are in consensus. Will I be in order if I requested you to call upon the Mover to respond?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can wind up because I am about to.
Order, Members! I would like to invite hon. Kizito to Standing Order No.155(9) which spells out the procedure in the Committee of Supply. It says that:- âOn any day upon which the Chairperson is under this order directed to put forthwith any question, the consideration of the business of Supply shall not be anticipated by a Motion for the adjournment of the House, and no dilatory Motion shall be moved in relation to that business, and the business shall not be interrupted under any Standing Orderâ.
So, I cannot sustain your point of order. It is up to the Members if they feel so, to ensure that no other person contributes because there will be another opportunity to do so, but to allow that, I cannot. Proceed, hon. Letimalo!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that in the process of movement of livestock in search of water and pasture, there are bound to be conflicts over these resources. It is very possible to forestall these conflicts if only the Government can deploy security personnel in these areas. I know in a series of meeting with the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security we have
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am just following the ruling by the Chair that unless and until there is no Member willing to contribute we proceed with the debate. I just want to draw the attention of Members that we have got two more Motions; the one on guarantee and the one on adjournment. You can actually say anything you want under those two Motions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just besieging my fellow colleagues that we follow what the Chief Whip instructed us to do and not stand.
So, can you come up and invite a speaker---
There is nobody to speak! There is nobody!
In that case can the Mover reply?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members for their contributions. I also once again wish to put on record that I appreciate the corrections that they made and the comments with regard to the new Constitution. Indeed, we do intend going forward to ensure that we all abide and live not just to the letter but to the spirit of the new Constitution. Ms. Karua mentioned the issue of ensuring that funds are put to proper use. I want to assure her that, that shall be the case. I also call upon Members of Parliament and the
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I really do not want to interrupt the Minister for Finance, but there is an Act which he is quoting. That is Guarantee (Loans) Act, Chapter 461, which clearly states the manner in which the Minister for Finance is supposed to bring the Motion to ask the House to increase the national debt. I want to read Section 3 of the Act. It says:-
âThe Minister shall prepare and lay before the National Assembly, the Sessional Paper specifying the covenant, the due performance of which is to be guaranteed, and where the covenant is for the repayment of a loan, the amount of the loan, terms and conditions as to the interests and repayment in respect of the loan, the Government total contingent liability under guarantee given under this Act, and any further information which the Minister considers relevant.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion is not properly before the House.
Order! The Minister has not yet moved the Motion. So, there is really no Motion on the Floor.
Proceed, Mr. Minister!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:-
THAT, pursuant to Section 3B of the Guarantee (Loans) Act (Chapter 461 of the Laws of Kenya); this House approves the increase of total contingent liability of the Government for the time being outstanding in respect of principal amount of money borrowed or credit under the Guarantee given under Section 3(1) or referred to in Section 8 of the Act from US$ 1 billion (Kenya Shillings eighty billion i.e. Kshs80 billion) to US$ 2.5 billion (Kenya Shillings two hundred billion i.e. Kshs 200 billion). As I move the Motion, first and foremost, I want to make it quite clear to the hon. Member that this Motion is properly before the House. First and foremost, it has been approved by the Speaker and, therefore, it is properly before the House.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue that he was just---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Having ruled hon. Oyongo Nyamweya out of order, is the Minister in order to respond to a no point of order? That is because there is nothing to respond to.
That is the true position.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is, indeed, a good point. I will come back to that later.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Would it be in order also for the Minister not to really lay ground on why he is coming up with the Motion? In the process of moving, he has to convince the House and therefore, he is not only doing it to clarify that point to the hon. Member, but to all us. Therefore, is he in order to continue with the clarification?
I am sure if it is relevant, the Minister can make those clarifications.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope that through my presentation, I will, indeed, clarify.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 12th July, 1993, pursuant to the same Section 3B, of the Guarantees Act, Cap.461 of the Laws of Kenya, this House, indeed, did approve the increase of total contingent liability from Kshs40 billion to Kshs80 billion. At the time of setting the ceiling, the Government guaranteed debt stood at US$992 million, equivalent to Kshs57.5 billion at the rate of Kshs58 to the US Dollar prevailing at the time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, since that time, repayments have been effected and new loans have been contracted under the Guarantee Loans Act and, as at the end of May, 2011, the guaranteed debts disbursed and outstanding on contractual basis stood at US$874 million, equivalent to Kshs75 billion.
The outstanding guarantees on a contractual basis as at 31st May to the Republic or to the Government of Japan was a total of Kshs822 million; that is
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Motion should not be debated because--- I am looking at the Act; let us be guided on this. The Act is very clear on how this should be read in the House. It does not matter. The House Business Committee (HBC) can make a mistake and we should not go by it. I am asking for your guidance.
Order, hon. Oyongo Nyamweya! I think we have already had a ruling on this matter; there is no Motion on the Floor of the House until the Minister has moved the Motion and it has been seconded. Secondly, this Motion has already been approved by the Speaker and the HBC. So, you can only raise those issues later but not now.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The state corporations guaranteed as at the end of May 2011 are as follows: Kengen to Japan, Kshs29.37 billion; Kenya Ports Authority to Japan, Kshs28.185 billion; Kenya Broadcasting Corporation to Japan, Kshs6.756 billion; Tana and Athi Rivers Development Authority again to Japan, Kshs2.791 billion; East Africa Portland Cement Company to Japan, Kshs3.468 billion; Telkom Kenya to Canada, Kshs394 million; Nairobi City Council to the United States of America, Kshs291 million; Kenya Railways Concessioning again to World Bank, Kshs3.856 billion, giving a total contractual debt guaranteed at Kshs74,979,000,000. The total effective outstanding guarantees on a contractual basis at the end of May 2011 stood at Kshs75 billion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is, therefore, observed that there is little room for additional guarantees, hence the urgency of enhancing the limit from the current ceiling of Kshs80 billion. New projects are to be covered by the new ceilingâs intended borrowing over the next remaining two years of the Medium-Term Plan 2010/2011 and the first plan under Vision 2030. As part of the efforts to sustain the economic growth over this period, and to continue to fight poverty, the Government plans to enhance investment in physical infrastructure, especially in the energy sector. Therefore, public corporations implementing the infrastructure projects need to borrow approximately Kshs115 billion externally under a Government guarantee over the two year period.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government policy on external borrowing is to guarantee loans on concessional terms, and I would like to inform the House that except for very special cases, the policy has been maintained. Over 70 per cent of the projected external borrowing to be guaranteed will be on concessional terms. The quantum and terms will be reported to this House in accordance with the requirements of the Public Audit Act, 2003, as well as the Public Finance Management Bill, 2011, which will be tabled in this House soon.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in reviewing the ceiling, we also need to consider the fact that the guaranteed debts will be denominated in all major world currencies, but mostly in Euros, Yen and US Dollars. Exchange rates between these countries and the shilling fluctuate, mostly upwards. To avoid the need to review the
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this important Motion.
As the Mover has already explained, the purpose of this Motion is to increase the ceiling of contingent liability to enable the Government to guarantee the borrowing for various development projects in this country.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as is quite obvious from the estimates that have been tabled before this House, about 95 per cent of our revenue is being used for recurrent expenditure. Only five per cent is being used to support our development expenditure. Under Vision 2030, we have very ambitious development targets. Within my own sector, you know there is chronic shortage of power in this country. We are not generating enough electricity. We cannot hope to industrialize this country in darkness. We cannot hope to industrialize this country while generating just 1,300 megawatts. Even small towns in Europe are generating 5,000 megawatts or 10,000 megawatts. We have been complaining about high electricity costs, which are making us uncompetitive, increasing the cost of production, and also hurting our consumers.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have analysed our problems and discovered that the greatest challenge we are facing in our sector is gross and chronic under investment within the energy sector. We want to generate 5,000 megawatts from geothermal alone. The Ministry of Energy has secured concessional funding from various international donors, including the World Bank, JICA, European Investment Bank and others. However, we cannot access this funding because we are not able to get Government guarantees. Right now, we are working on a 280 megawatts geothermal
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to very briefly contribute to this Motion. At the outset, let me say that it is important to recognize the contribution that was made earlier on in identifying some mathematical errors by Messrs Martin Ogindo and John Mbadi. These were critical errors and I urge the very hard working Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance to make sure that the Treasury being the nerve centre of our nation---. He should make sure that those errors, be they computer errors or mathematical errors, are not repeated in future. If there are some senior officials or workers who are not committed to their call, then serious action should be taken against them to avoid that happening in future. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we cannot request for those huge grants to invest in our country if the nation is not stable. Therefore, national security is a major concern to this nation because recently, our borders were exposed. We need to have adequate security at our borders. You will realize that even our homes are well fenced and strong gates fixed. The same should apply to the borders of this nation. No corner of this nation should be left insecure. Marking of our borders should be done so that people of this country can feel proud and move about their activities without any fear.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support. I must say that my conviction has become more clear when the Minister was explaining what those particular guarantees would be for. We have spoken too long in this House about disaster management, disaster preparedness and the green energy - which is the alternative energy. We need to invest in it in this country. It is an investment that is never light. So, we must take responsibility and I am glad that the Government is doing this. Even as we give these guarantees, I would like to urge the Ministry of Finance and, especially, the Ministry that will be in charge of the loans that we are going to guarantee not to allow that money to create new cartels. For example, we already know that in the fuel sector, cartels are frustrating the work of the Ministry. Please, do not allow the green energy alternative to become a cartel. I beg you to look after that money because we are guaranteeing it knowing that it will safeguard the future of this country. I support.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This is a very straightforward Motion, very clear and simple. What the Minister is asking is consistent with the provisions of the law and it is, in fact, expected to come before this House. The Treasury, as the custodian of public debt, must come to this House and be given a legal backing to cap the ceiling on what our national debt should be. Hereafter, the Constitution and the law requires that then every individual debt that requires the Government guarantee must come to this House on its own merit, be debated as a Sessional Paper and be approved or rejected. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we know that this country is on a fast lane for development. We have given ourselves Vision 2030. We have to increase our energy production from the paltry 14,000 megawatts to about 70,000 megawatts in the next couple of years if we have to catch up with those ahead of us.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. I am not against increasing the Governmentâs ceiling. However, I would like to know whether this Government borrows money without seeking the approval of this House. If they have done so, how can we give them a credit limit to go and borrow? How can Parliament guarantee such money? In the past, this has happened. That is why we have had so many scandals. That is why there was a scandal in the energy sector. That is why we have had scandals because people were using money without seeking the Government approval. It is an abuse and, therefore, my question is; as things stand now, we can pass this, but what guarantee can the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance give this House that he is not going to do what has happened in the past? The Government has borrowed without coming to Parliament and every Kenyan is paying for that loan. That is why I am raising the issue that this new borrowing ceiling must be accompanied with responsibility. If you are borrowing a shilling, what is it for? If you go to a bank and ask for money, the bank must know the purpose for that money.
Order, Mr. Ogindo! I see the Government side seems to be appreciating what you are saying but the Chair does not have the same appreciation. What was it?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was made to do with none of your ears and I was looking for at least one. Now that I have both, may I proceed? To date, this House has not been favored with those records. It is imperative that this is done in view of the transparency that we need in this country. If only there was luxury of time, it would have been my humble suggestion that this issue be dealt with at the Committee level. Nonetheless, I think the relevant Committee is at liberty to look at this thing much more deeply. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support this Motion. I would like to urge the Ministry to be more cautious in future. In the past, some money was borrowed to put up CDMA in the rural areas. The Ministry owned the project yet this money was guaranteed by the Government. This money was in the tune of Kshs384 million which is yet to be paid off. After the money is paid, who is going to own
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for giving me a chance to also support this Motion.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as one of my colleagues has said, there is no way a country can develop without borrowing. Although we have been borrowing in the past, I think it is now that we need to even borrow more. That is because the ceiling that was there was too small and we need to increase. This country is in need of enough food, power, transport and many other infrastructural developments. My Ministry has a few integrated projects which really need a lot of money. We have a few projects like the high grand falls which is supposed to produce, at least, 600 megawatts of electricity and irrigate more than 150 hectares. We have always talked of shortage of food. Such projects should be financed. They are so big that the Government cannot finance them on its own unless it borrows. There are quite a number of projects that before other countries lend you money, they must know how much the Government is going to put in. So, unless we put in---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. It appears now that almost every other contributor is supporting the Motion. Would I be in order to ask that the Mover be called upon to reply?
Okay, hon. Members. I will then put the question.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me take this opportunity to thank all Members who have contributed. I have taken note of all the issues that they have mentioned. I especially really emphasize once again that when Sessional Papers are brought before the House on specific projects, that will be the time for Members to thoroughly interrogate them and to ensure that the monies that will be guaranteed will be put to use and will ultimately be for the benefit of this Republic and for the people of this country.
With those few remarks, I beg to move.
Order, hon. Members! We are in the Committee of the whole House. We will be considering The Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill, Bill No.11 of 2011.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 of the bill be amended by inserting a new subparagraph (e) immediately after paragraph (d) as follows:- (e) is a member in good standing of a professional body for accountants recognized by law.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- (i) THAT, Clause 5(4) of the Bill be amended by inserting a new paragraph (f) immediately after paragraph (e) as follows:- (f) Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya. Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, these are proposals made by hon. Members on the Floor, which I respect as they add value to the Bill.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I wish to propose a further amendment to the amendment proposed by the Minister on Clause 5, and this is on Clause 5(4) the proviso---
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, with your permission, for the benefit of my good learned friend, I have only moved Clause 5(i). The proviso would come under (ii).
I moved the amendment of Clause 5(i), which is limited at this point to only Article 5(4). I will be moving the proviso later.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I can also move that, if you allow me.
Why do you not do all of them together?
Thank you very much, Sir. I beg to move:-
(ii) THAT, Clause 5(4) be amended by inserting a proviso immediately after the following fullstop as follows:- provided that for the purposes of selection and shortlisting of said three persons, the Public Service Commission shall hold its proceedings in public.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, that is informed by the debate from hon. Members; after the experiences we have had, where bodies charged with the responsibility of this selection have been known to do this quietly in camera.
I also want to further move:-
(iii) THAT, Clause 5(7) be amended by deleting the words âwithin fourteen days of receipt of the nominees under subsection (6)â, appearing after the words â the National Assembly shallâ.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, again, that is informed by the CIOC. The Chairman has seen me and it adds value. This is because we have also learnt out of experience.
I beg to move the above amendments.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, while supporting the amendments by the Minister I wish to propose a further amendment to Clause 5(4)(ii) to strengthen the clause. I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5(4)(ii) be further amended by deleting the fullstop after the word âpublicâ, at the end of the provision and inserting the following words; âand submit to Parliament a report of the interviews, which should include inter alia, scores of each candidate interviewed by individual members of the interviewing panel together with the criteria used in selecting the names forwarded.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, this is in line with the recommendation of the Committee yesterday when it was presenting its report. This will further enhance transparency, so that we know what the scores are and the criteria used. We will also be able to know the conduct of the proceedings and this will improve the transparency of the process.
I beg to move.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I accept.
Order, Minister, I appreciate your enthusiasm. But you wait for your opportunity.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, thank you very much for your guidance. I now support the further amendment as proposed by Ms. Karua.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is just a suggestion that instead of getting the report of the interviews, the amendment should read; âa report of the proceedingsâ. That will ensure that you have the interview plus any other proceedings. This is wider because there might be deliberations and not just the interview.
Order, hon. Members! For purposes of the proceedings, since you are looking for them, then Mr. Abdikadir should move a further amendment to the amendment by Ms. Karua.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir. I wish to propose an amendment to the amendment by Ms. Karua so that her proposed amendment reads as follows:-
âAnd submit to Parliament a report of the interview proceedings, which should include inter alia, scores of each candidate interviewed by individual members of the interviewing panel together with the criteria used in selecting the names forwarded.â
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, this is a very standard procedure and it enhances and fortifies, perhaps, the issue of transparency. Therefore, I wish to support it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, just a quick one. I wish to support the amendment as amended. I want to thank the Minister for listening to us yesterday because after what this country went through, we were only lucky that somewhat the Committee on the Implementation of the Constitution (CIOC) was competent. This amendment will cure this process of vetting in such a way that no candidate shall come to this Parliament without the public knowing what and who they are and any misgivings that anybody may have. The proceedings of the Committee chaired by Mr. Atwoli should have been done publicly. The hearings should have unearthed any controversies so that Parliament is not over-politicized over issues which should be sorted out somewhere else. Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
Order, hon. Members! We are at the Committee Stage and that amendment was just about the insertion of the word âproceedings.â So, if you are to remain relevant, it should be on how you justify the word âproceedings.â
Be part of the Bill!
Order, hon. Members! The Chair has the capacity to proceed!
There is another amendment by the Minister to Clause 5.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5(7) of the Bill be amended by deleting the wordsâ, within fourteen days of receipt of nominees under subsection (6),â appearing in the first line after the word âshallâ. That is a recommendation from the CIOC whom I thank. It adds value to the Bill and Parliament will deal with its functions in an orderly fashion without many restrictions.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister. If you recall, this Bill was committed to the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee (CIOC). But the Committee was very busy with the Chief Justiceâs and the other appointments. We did not have time to complete this. The amendments that Members had proposed were sent to the Minister and he was kind enough to take them all on board. We are grateful and this is one of them. Recently, Parliament had to amend one of the laws that it had passed because we had given a seven day window and that window was breached. The work could not continue and we had to come back to Parliament. It is, therefore, important that the time be elastic.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be deleted. This is a recommendation from the CIOC arising from recommendations from the CIC and which I accept. It will add value because the Constitution has sufficient provisions for temporary vacancy. I beg to move.
Again, I just want to correct the Minister that it was not from the CIOC but from the Auditor-General who felt that this was a constitutional office and we could not really handle constitutional functions in an acting capacity. One has to be a substantive holder.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill, (Bill No. 11 of 2011) and its approval thereof with amendments.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole House has considered the Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill, (Bill No.11 of 2011) and approved the same with amendments.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.
(Prof. Ongeri) seconded.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Independent Offices (Appointment) Bill, (Bill No.11 of 2011) be now read the Third Time.
(Prof. Ongeri) seconded.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, now that we have institutionalized public hearings in the recruitment of Kenyans to offices, I think it is
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Minister and remind him that he undertook, on the record of the HANSARD, that as requested by the Member who has just spoken before me, he will with great dispatch, bring a comprehensive law, because this law relates only to two offices. He will remember that we wanted to hold it to include other offices, but we have let it go. Let him now bring a comprehensive Bill that must include the protection of whistle blowers. Until an investigation is done and allegations are verified not to be true, a person should never be castigated or maligned for standing up. It should balance both ways. Parliament must assist in this. We too must have rules so that we do not overstep our mandate in the course of it. That Bill, we may wish to consider, as Parliament, having a specialized unit that can help us in certain areas. I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to join the Members in congratulating the Minister. There is a Bill published for vetting that had been proposed by hon. Mungatana. That Bill needs to be either taken up by the Minister or in conjunction with the Member, it needs a lot of effort for us to work seriously on that issue that hon. Wetangula pointed out. In the other jurisdictions, this matter is very well regulated. Allegations against people who are aspiring for high office are not brought to any Committee until investigations are conducted about those allegations, so that they do not come to the public light if they are not of any substance. It is very critical that we develop those standards, so that we have a fair and adequate vetting procedure. It cannot be lynching and certainly it should not be a black spot. On the second issue, you will now note that there is no Bill on the constitution implementation process before Parliament. We will have cleared with the last one this evening if we will be through with these proceedings in a few minutes time. It is now up to the Executive and the those other institutions, namely, the Attorney-Generalâs office, the Kenya Law Reform Commission and the Commission on the Implementation of the Constitution, especially the CIC and the Attorney-Generalâs office, to move with speed, so that this House can implement this process and enact these laws. I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in support of my colleague who has just spoken, it should also be made mandatory that before you go for vetting,
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I just want to thank the Members for the dedication they have shown in terms of fast-tracking this Bill in its First and Second Readings and now the Third Reading. I also want to thank the Minister and the Chairman of the CIOC for having captured the debate yesterday, bringing those amendments; and the Members for having taken them in especially ensuring that for us in the accounting fraternity, whoever comes to fill these vacancies, must be of good standing. This is already part of vetting by the wider body of accountants to ensure that no one person will come in when they have some excess baggage within the profession. I believe that that is a major step. I want to thank the Members for the manner in which this Bill has been disposed of. I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I give a very firm and clear professional undertaking to bring this legislation on the Floor of the House. I will talk to hon. Mungatana immediately and seek to borrow as much of value from his proposals and then marry them, in consultation with the CIC and the CIOC. We will have this Bill, I hope, by the time Parliament resumes, if the adjournment proposed undertakes. I want to thank the Members. I beg to move.
Madam Temporary Deputy, I beg to move the following Motion. THAT, this House do adjourn until Tuesday 19th July, 2011. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, in moving this Motion, I want to thank Members for their contribution in the session that we are just about to bring to a temporary break. It has been a very exciting time in the House. We have seen all manner of emotions and everything else. However, it has all been for the good of the country. I think all good things go through these turbulent times. The beauty of it is that, at the end of it all, we have agreed fundamentally and passed legislation, cleared names and started the journey of implementation of a new Constitution. Kenyans wherever they are can be very proud of their Parliament and know that the Members of Parliament have been working hard. On several occasions, we sat here until midnight. We sat here until 9.00 p.m. yesterday. We are here today sitting to ensure
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to second this Motion. I once again call on the Government to ensure that there is food and water in Turkana, Samburu, Isiolo and other parts of upper Eastern and North Eastern areas. I would also like to ask the Executive to expedite and bring the necessary legislation for implementing the Constitution. I would like to congratulate those who have been appointed but tell them that they are on notice. Kenyans are watching each and every step they make. I would also like to remind us as Kenyans that it is our responsibility to see that proper implementation of the Constitution goes on. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, my only regret as we go on recess is the intolerance that was exhibited in this House yesterday. The majority must have their way but the minority must have their say. I hope that after recess, we will come back with decorum and continue with business. I beg to second.
Put the question! Put the question!
Hon. Members, let us allow a few Members to contribute. Let us allow at least five Members to contribute for a minute each.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. From the onset, I am supporting this Motion of Adjournment. Let us go home and supervise our CDF funding. Secondly, I would also wish to stress to Members that let us not go home and polarize this country. As much as we will be campaigning, let us campaign peacefully. I want to stress this to the Ministry of Finance; that next year is an election year. We must do something for our youths. Our youths must get proper allocation in order for them to survive. Lastly, energy in this country must be affordable to enable the economy to grow. The Ministry of Energy should lower the cost of energy. The allocation for Rural Electrification Programme (REP) should be increased in order to light the entire country as per their vision. Thank you.
Hon. Members, you will all have a chance to contribute. As I have been guided, this debate can last for three hours. Do not fear.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, first of all, I want to thank you so much for giving me this opportunity. I also want to thank Parliament for what it did yesterday regarding the names of eminent Kenyans whose appointment has now been
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also rise to support this Motion. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to start by thanking all members of staff of Parliament for the support that they have given me as a Whip for the period that I have been in office. Also, I wish to give credit to my colleagues for making sure that the nominees to the Judiciary have gone through. From what I have received from telephone and through 411, those three nominees will be sworn in tomorrow. I am very happy to go back home to tell my people that we have worked and have a judicial system that is in place. It will undertake the reforms in this country. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to ask the Minister for Finance to kindly fulfill the promise that he made when he was reading the Budget. He should give us money to be able to, at least, complete the remaining projects, so that by the time we leave this Parliament next year, we do not leave pending issues to those who will come after us. I want that money to complete my projects. I want to work and leave a good reputation behind. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to thank my colleagues who have given me support as a Whip. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to support.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I am very happy.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is the hon. Minister in order to speak from the Back Bench?
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister is not in order.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to also support this Motion. This Parliament has done so well in this Session. Most of the Bills that were brought here have gone through; now we are going to have the Judiciary led by people from outside; I am sure everybody wanted this. So, we hope they will perform better than the previous managers. It would be a very big disappointment if they got this opportunity and then they do not improve the Judiciary.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, another thing that I wanted to say before I was, unfortunately, asked to sit down, which I did, was that we have just agreed that we are going to increase the ceiling of our borrowing capacity, but we have very many Kenyans who have a lot of money outside this country, which is more than what we want to borrow. We could ask the Minister for Finance to bring here a Motion to ask these people to bring that money back to this country, so that we can use it locally; this is because most of that money is rotting in foreign countries. When some of them die, it just remains there. This is because when you steal, you do not even tell your wife or children where that money is. So, you die with it. So, we should allow them to bring the money in and we do not take them to court. Let them use that money here locally. That would be much better than that money helping other countries. I hope when we come back, we will try to find a way of asking these guys to do so; I am sure some of them have a lot of money. Instead of being taken to court there, let them bring the money back here and we use it here.
With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I take due note of the fact that there is the fairer type of humanity in the Chair; I take due cognizance.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support this Motion and wish all hon. Members of this House well as we take this three-week recess. However, as we take this recess to interact with our constituents and members of the public, I want to remind ourselves that we enjoy this recess aware that there has been a fundamental paradigm shift in the manner in which the affairs of this country are supposed to be managed. It is said that never be afraid to take one giant leap if it is clear that you cannot cross a gulf in two little steps. The new dispensation that is anchored in the new Constitution has taken us to another level. It has taken us to another dispensation â a dispensation where we have to be tolerant and respect the rights of others.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I particularly want to applaud the legislative measures this House has taken in rolling out this new dispensation, and urge that even as we take this recess, we should respect every tenet celebrated by this Constitution. There have been sentiments expressed on this floor which have worried me, that perhaps we have not yet crossed the river in terms of some of the rights enunciated in this Constitution. Number one, we need to respect the rights of the media and appreciate that under Article 34 of this Constitution, freedom of the media is guaranteed; therefore, we must not behave in any manner that sends out the signal that this House may be interested in muzzling freedom of the media. There have been attempts recently in this House to
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the Member to start debating the Motion that we resolved yesterday? Is it in order for him to take us back? We have already crossed the river and he is still taking us back to the river.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think the Member is out of order and he is wasting my precious time.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me conclude that whether this House likes it or not, whether we want to behave like the Mob of Rome, whether we want to behave like hecklers, we cannot diminish the values, principles of integrity and morality enshrined in this Constitution. We can shout at the top of our voices, but we cannot take away what has been enshrined in the Constitution.
Hon. Namwamba, your time is up!
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, could you indulge me a minute to recover the time wasted---
Hon. Namwamba, we do not use unparliamentarily language like wasting time. Hon. Members do not waste time.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, may I, therefore, plead for indulgence of one minute to conclude?
I want to applaud the Treasury and the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for the efforts he has taken to respond to the cry of the people of this country in terms of the cost of living. I want to plead with the Treasury, that the estimates he has tabled in this House, may we see it translated into real action, so that the people of this country can feel relief from the pain of the high cost of living.
With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me start by thanking the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for his revelation on the embezzlement of funds in the Ministry of Education.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to support this Motion of Adjournment. As I do so, I want to congratulate the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs because in difficult times, he has struggled to continue bringing Bills to the House. I also want to thank and congratulate the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for the Budget that he presented to this House. It is a Budget that will touch the lives of ordinary Kenyans in many ways. As I do that, I also want to say that we have to be careful even as we go on recess. We have seen how dangerous or damaging allegations can be made even in front of cameras. We must deal with this issue as a Parliament and also as a society. The culture of people going out and making outrageous allegations against others, allegations that one cannot substantiate out there and within this House, is a culture that we must be bold enough to deal with.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not opposed to opposing values that Kenyans may be having. But it is important that we ensure that we do not sell the soul of this nation to values that we do not ascribe to because as a country we have values and aspirations that we aspire to---
Order, hon. Kioni! What is your point of order, hon. Chepchumba?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, she is seated. She cannot be on a point of order when she is seated and you cannot persuade her to have one.
Order! Order, hon. Kioni!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Following the mood of the House, would I be in order to suggest that the Mover be call upon to reply?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is only fair that I finish and then you can call the Mover to reply.
Proceed, hon. Kioni!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just about to conclude by saying that we are going on recess on a sad note. It is important I note this. When we have an institution in the name of the Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB) laying off senior managers, eight of them from the same community, it will be wrong for us not to take note of that. The same is happening at the Multimedia University and also with the water boards. It is important that we take note of these things. As leaders, we need to let the country know that this cannot be allowed. Even as we are talking about regional balancing, the minority rights and everything else, it is not right for you to just get others out of employment for purposes of getting others into employment. This is also not right. I think it is a sad time that we have gone on recess before addressing these issues. But having said that, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Motion and say that even as we deal with other appointments, respect for institutions is very important. Where Commissions such as the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) have been given an opportunity to do shortlisting, it is only courteous and respectful to allow the Office of the President an opportunity to pick from about three. When you send only one name it really does not show any amount of respect to these institutions. This is a culture that we must deal with. We can allow it to pass now, but it is not a culture that we would want to carry on and allow the future generations to take on. With those remarks I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for this opportunity to support this Motion very strongly. I believe hon. Members have had a very fruitful time. I want to congratulate them for the sacrifices that they have made during this session, including staying up to late to ensure that we pass all the Bills that we have passed. I also want to congratulate the Minister in charge of Finance. I want to particularly thank him for the amount of money he has allocated to the Mau evictees. We hope this time round, we will not have any more dillydallying and passing of the buck. I hope that money will be put in the basket it is supposed to go to so that those people are finally settled. I am not talking just about the people of Mau, but also the other evictees. With regard to education, we desperately need teachers. Hon. Uhuru, this is a serious problem in the country. We know that education standards are not going to be met simply because our country lacks 28,000 teachers in our schools. The amount of money that has been set aside for the purposes of energy in the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) will not be enough. If it is true that we can only access Kshs6 million per constituency, that is not enough. This is an area where we have felt the real meaning of equitable distribution across the country. So, I hope that we are going to see some readjustments in the Budget so that we get more funding in this line. I want to congratulate all those who have been appointed to fill the recently contested offices, that is, the Chief Justice, Dr. Mutunga; the Deputy Chief Justice, Ms.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the hon. Members for their hard work. We have been able to go through a lot and we have managed to accomplish quite a lot of serious assignments. I want to pick on the issue of drought, but from a different angle. The level of malnutrition is very high. In places like Turkana, Isiolo, Marsabit and others this has reached alarming levels. This time round we are likely to lose lives because food has not been delivered on time. It is bad for money to be returned to the Treasury and yet our people are dying of hunger. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I get mixed feelings when I see financial institutions like banks or a corporate institution like Kenya Airways making supernormal profits. A profit of over 50 per cent is very high and it should not have been made in a weak economy such as ours. It is, therefore, important that the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade looks into the matter of supernormal profits that are declared by banks and other corporate institutions. Where are we getting it wrong? With those remarks, I beg to support.
Yes, hon. Gaichuhie!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for finally noticing that I was around. I also rise to support the Motion on Adjournment and also thank the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs for the number of Bills that he has been able to bring to this House. I also want to urge him that we are going on recess and we would wish him to bring more Bills so that we do not have to shorten the publication period. This will enable us to participate fully and also give the public an opportunity to participate instead of reducing the number of days. I also want to thank the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance because of the good Budget that he presented to this House the other day. I would also like to say that we have allowed him to borrow and we would urge him to ask the other Ministries that are supposed to bring the Sessional Papers to do so quickly enough so that we can be able to borrow and increase the amount of energy in this country because we are about to go on a 24 hour economy and we want to industrialize our country. I do not think we can do that without energy. Since Parliament has increased the ceiling, he should bring the Sessional Papers very quickly so that we pass them and have borrowings and be able to increases energy in this country. I also want to thank the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee (CIOC) and the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) for the good work they have been doing; vetting the judges and right now, we have them in place. The Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs is having a problem because the work the CIOC is doing right now is supposed to be done by the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. I would urge Parliament and particularly the Office of the Speaker and the Office of the Clerk to ensure that we have the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs running so that we do not overload the CIOC. Finally, I also want to say that, yes, we are going on recess. But when we say we are going on recess, Kenyans out there think that parliamentarians are going home to sleep. I want to let our constituents know that this is the time that parliamentarians do a
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to support this Motion of Adjournment. At the same time, I also want to thank the hon. Members for a job very well done. This Parliament will go into the annuls of history as the most hardworking, the most prolific in terms of generating Bills and of course, it will be remembered for giving Kenyans the best Constitution in the entire African continent. I want to thank hon. Members for that and also wish them well as they go to their constituencies to deliver services to their constituents. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs for coming up with the Bills which we have just passed recently, and especially the one on the vetting of the Chief Justice, the Deputy Chief Justice and the Director of Public Prosecutions; Mr. Keriako ole Tobiko. I think we have succeeded in overhauling the entire Judiciary. In fact, this is a real revolution. The entire Judiciary has been overhauled, so we expect Dr. Mutunga now to actually deliver justice to Kenyans because it had eluded Kenyans for a very long time. Justice has become the most expensive commodity in this country. We expect Dr. Mutunga with his team to ensure that justice is delivered to Kenyans, and Kenyans will actually be satisfied. So he should jail all the thieves and make sure those who do good work are given awards. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank my good friend, the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance for giving us one of the most ambitious Budgets in the entire East and Central Africa. For us to have a budget of more than Kshs1 trillion, I think the Minister is doing a good job. We also want to thank him for the many goodies that he gave us. Lastly, I want to wish all the Members a best holiday until we meet next time. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to support this Motion of Adjournment. This is the first time I am participating in this Motion of Adjournment, this being my first year in this Parliament. But I feel very happy to associate myself with this Parliament, especially on what they have done for this nation. They have brought a new dawn in the Judiciary. This country is not going to be the same again. There was a surgery which was done in 2003. This is a true surgery that has taken place in the Judiciary. We trust that these men and women who have been bestowed with authority to run the Judiciary will be fair to Kenyans and they will move the Judiciary forward so that what we have done as Parliament is not in vain. We trust that they will be able to live to the challenges of their new responsibilities. They should not be talking, they should live with actions.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. Hon. Members have really worked hard during this Session and the Bills that we have passed will make a difference in this country.
However, I want to particularly speak about the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. I had talked to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance and told him that the Ministry of Water and Irrigation should be allocated more resources or funds so that we can deal with the drought situation in the country.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, year in, year out, this Government imports food into the country and yet we are capable of irrigating our farms. We must start
Mr. Minister, would you like to respond?
All right, hon. Members! I will now put the Question.
Hon. Members, the House now stands adjourned until Tuesday, 19th July, 2011, at 2.30 pm.
The House rose at 9.05 p.m.