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  • Sitting : National Assembly : 2012 08 30 14 30 00
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  • Page 1 of Hansard 30.08.12
  • NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OFFICIAL REPORT Thursday, 30th August, 2012
  • The House met at 2.30 p.m.
  • [Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
  • PRAYERS

  • REPORTS ON PETITIONS Mr. Speaker

    Is there a petition, Member for Mosop? Member for Mosop, is your petition approved?

  • David Kibet Koech

    Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Is it approved?

  • David Kibet Koech

    It is approved, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Very well. If it is, you may then proceed. Order, Member for Mosop! You have reports on petitions?

  • David Kibet Koech

    I have a report, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is why---

  • Mr. Speaker

    You should have said, “Reports on Petitions”.

  • David Kibet Koech

    I have a report on a petition.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Okay, proceed. You can table them at this point. NON-ACCREDITATION OF ENGINEERING COURSES AT KENYATTA, MASINDE MULIRO & MOI UNIVERSITIES BY KERB

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Report on a Petition on the Table of the House today, Thursday 30th August, 2012. It is the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the non- accreditation of engineering students of Kenyatta, Masinde Muliro and Moi universities by the Kenya Engineers Registration Board (KERB).

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, Member for Mosop! So that our records are clear, you have intimated to me and indeed to the House that, that is a report pursuant to a petition. Can you kindly indicate which petition and when it was raised in the House? Member for Mosop, you know that is important. I will tell you why.

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry for this. It was approved some one minute to this time. This is a petition which was committed to this Committee. The petition was raised on behalf of the students by Dr. Bonnie Khalwale, the Member of Parliament for Ikolomani.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Fair enough. That is good.

  • 1 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • CANCELLATION OF 2011 KCSE RESULTS IN GARISSA, WAJIR & MANDERA COUNTIES

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Report of a petition on the Table of the House today, 30th August, 2012. It is the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the cancellation of 2011 KCSE Results in Garissa, Wajir and Mandera counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a petition brought to this House by Mr. Aden Duale on behalf of the students who were affected. I beg to lay.

  • (Mr. Koech laid the documents on the Table)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Very well. Member for Mosop, you may resume your seat but I still want you to report to one aspect on which I gave directions just about 21 days ago. Have you complied with Standing Order No.210 with respect to dispatching copies of your report to the petitioners?

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was waiting for your approval and I will do so immediately.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Fair enough. Please, endevour to do so immediately hereafter. Next Order!

  • PAPER LAID Mr. Speaker

    Yes, Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology, I believe you have a Paper to lay. The following Paper was laid on the Table:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the transfer of Moi University School of Environmental Studies from the main campus to Chepkoilel University College a constituent college of Moi University.

  • (By Mr. Koech)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Next Order!

  • QUESTIONS BY PRIVATE NOTICE

  • INVASION OF IDAVAGA MUSLIM SECONDARY SCHOOL LAND

  • Yusuf Kifuma Chanzu

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that Idavaga Muslim Secondary School in Vihiga District cannot carry out its expansion programmes because its land has been encroached?

  • 2 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • (b) What measures will the Ministry take to solve the problem to enable the school implement its expansion programmes?
  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Idavaga Muslim Secondary School in Vihiga District, which I have personally visited, has a land feud with the family of Mzee Zubedi which has affected the expansion of the school programmes. (b) In realization of that problem, following my visit to the school on the invitation of the hon. Member, I have now sent a team of my officers to the ground to get more information regarding the matter and particularly the nature of the dispute so as to enable me to make appropriate decision in order to assist the school in implementing its expansion programmes. I thank you.

  • Yusuf Kifuma Chanzu

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister. I am happy that it is the substantive Minister answering this Question. Last week, his Assistant Minister answered the same way. He requested that they be given one week so that they can come up with a proper answer. That is exactly what the Minister is saying now. I do not know whether the Minister is aware that the answer I have been given has supplementary information which I think serves quite a lot in giving the answer to this Question. The assurance I would like the Minister to give is: How long is this going to take? I would like it to be done properly so that we can have this matter sorted out. The school has an enrolment of over 200 students. This school was just started recently; about three-and-a-half years to four years ago. It already has an enrolment of 227 students. Expansion is a problem; we cannot put up a laboratory, classrooms and other facilities that are required. How long is this likely to take?

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue has actually dragged for a very long time. The information I have and that is what I want verified by the team, is that Mzee Zubedi sold the land to the Muslim community in 1961 even before Independence. The Muslim community later gave the land to the Idavaga Primary School, who are bona fide land title holders at this moment. Unfortunately, Mzee Zubedi requested to continue staying on the land and upon his death, the land was to revert to the school. After the death of Mr. Zubedi, some two granddaughters later refused to vacate the school land. In 2003 the school secured an eviction order for the two families but the two moved to court to halt the order. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Provincial Land Tribunal was consulted in 2005 to resolve the case. The eviction order dragged on again until the tribunal was dissolved without concluding the case. The school has since gone to court again to have eviction order but the order is yet to be executed. This is really sad saga because in the Board of Governors meeting held two weeks ago, it was reported that the two families now wanted Kshs1.6 million as compensation to leave the school land. The areas chief and a small committee were mandated to follow the matter to its logical conclusion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the chief reported that some outside forces were interfering with the issue. The school was given Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) funding for a classroom and the money has been pending for a year now due to the above issues. Again, this year, the CDF gave the school money and lack of space for expansion is an issue. The school has a form four class for 2013 and plans to build them a classroom have

  • 3 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • also hit a snap. There is no room for building a laboratory. What I am trying to say, and the reason my Assistant Minister asked for more time, is that this is not as simple as it looks. As a trained lawyer, I want the team to bring me copies of the orders, rulings, judgments and other material facts so that then I can help to resolve this. It is my intention to resolve it as quickly as possible. I agreed to visit the school and I was very amazed at what I saw. I request that I be given at least the next four weeks so that I can examine these documents, talk to the Minister for Lands and then come to this House to give a permanent solution to this challenge. Thank you.
  • Mohammed Abdi Affey

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a matter of public interest because it involves a school which has students, and there is a contest between the school community and the two grandchildren of the late mzee . There is already an agreement to the effect that Kshs1.6 million is the amount requested by these grandchildren. Since the Minister has sufficient information, instead of waiting for four weeks, why can he not settle quickly with the two grandchildren, and give an undertaking that he will be able to settle the Kshs1.6 million vis-a-vis the national interest involved in this matter?

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to being a trained lawyer, I am also trained not to succumb to blackmail. That is why I want time to determine whether the request for Kshs1.6 million is warranted. I opened by saying that the grandfather of these two Kenyan ladies sold the land to the school, and the school has a title deed. Therefore, I do not want to jump the gun and start agreeing to payment when it has already been made. I must admit that when I went to the school, I met with the Imam who impressed me as an able man. Kindly, allow me this opportunity to hold discussions and report within a month’s time. The school will not be disadvantaged unduly. This is a very homogeneous community of Muslims which should not pay an additional Kshs1.6 million in a situation where they had already paid for the land in 1961. I would hesitate to go that way.

  • Peter Njuguna Gitau

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the Minister for making an effort to visit the subject of dispute, could the Minister consider buying alternative land, probably adjacent to the school, because we do not know when the dispute is likely to be settled, so that the children will continue learning and their transition is not affected.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    I want to thank the hon. Member for that suggestion, but my visit to the site demonstrated a heavily populated area. Therefore, to be able to get the sort of land that would satisfy the needs of the school - it is already structured in a particular manner - might not be possible. We might not be able to get contiguous land next to this school. I have also been struggling with the idea of recommending going upwards because the sky is the limit. We can have double storey buildings and structures. Again, the reason why I do not want to go that way at this point, is that we do not want to succumb to this sort of situation where a family sells land then they renege on the agreement and get away with it, thereby exposing a school. Therefore, I would prefer that this team goes quietly and engages everybody, including Mr. Chanzu, so that we can come up with a more permanent solution, so that the community and the school do not lose the money they paid in 1961. I think it is very unfair; if Mzee Zubedi was to wake up - I am sure he is in paradise because he obviously wanted the community to benefit since

  • 4 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • there is no other Muslim school that I could see in the neighbourhood – he would say that Mr. M. Kilonzo is on the right track.
  • Yusuf Kifuma Chanzu

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the record, I want to correct the name. The name is “Zuberi” and not “Zubedi”. The Minister has just talked about a very viable option because of the crisis right now. I just wanted to request him if he could consider to factor in any resources from the Ministry to the school, so that they can construct upwards. Actually, that is what will happen. That should happen because we do not know how much time the court is going to take on the matter.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, having the benefit of having been there myself, and even praying with the children, I have already recommended that they give me a request for infrastructure support. The request that I have received is for a library, and I am looking at it with a very keen and nice eye with a view to a favourable consideration. If the school was to consider developing a plan without prejudice to their right to continue claiming the land owned by this family, I have no doubt in my mind that we would definitely consider support upward development as opposed to ground development. MURDER OF PASTOR JAMES ATIENO AT ABC CHURCH IN KAYOLE

  • David Ouma Ochieng'

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Under what circumstances was Pastor James Omoth Atieno at ABC church in Kayole killed on 27th June, 2012? (b) Has any suspect(s) in relation to the murder been arrested and arraigned in a court of law and, if not, when will they be arrested?

  • Yusuf Haji (The Minister of State for Defence and the Acting Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware of the increased vandalism of transformers for cooling oil and scrap metal, telkom wires for copper, wood furniture and home appliances for sale as scrap metal. (b) I am aware that the crime has continue to increase due to the high demand of iron for construction in Kenya---

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, Mr. Minister! What Question are you answering? Are you answering Question No. 3 by Private Notice? I do not think so, considering the content of your statements so far.

  • Yusuf Haji (The Minister of State for Defence and the Acting Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security)

    I am sorry, I mixed up my documents.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Do you want some time?

  • Yusuf Haji (The Minister of State for Defence and the Acting Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security)

    No. I am ready, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Then proceed.

  • Yusuf Haji (5 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Minister of State for Defence and the Acting Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) On 27th June, 2012, Pastor James Omollo Atieno of ABC Church, Kayole, was asleep in his house within the church compound situated within Soweto Area near Masimba Stage in Kayole. At about 3.00 a.m. an unknown number of gangsters entered the church compound from the back after cutting through the fence and forced open the door to the pastor’s house. On entering, one of the gangsters struck him once in the head. The pastor screamed only once before dying. His nephew, Master Harold Auma Ojongo, who was asleep in another room within the same house and a watchman, who apparently was asleep inside the church house, were awakened by the commotion. Immediately thereafter three of the gangsters entered into the pastor’s nephew’s room and ordered him to lie on the Floor and tied his hands with ropes. They started packing music equipment which was kept in the room in cartons. The watchman saw three men standing guard outside the door of the pastor’s house and tried to call the pastor through his mobile to warn him not to open the door but the calls went unanswered. The watchman then started calling neighbours on phone to alert them of the thugs. Meanwhile after packing the music equipment, one of the thugs started calling for a taxi on the phone. After waiting for transport for some time, the gang abandoned their loot and instead stole one portable generator and two mobile phones belonging to the deceased and his nephew and disappeared on foot into the darkness. A neighbour who had been alerted by the watchman’s calls alerted the Administration Police officers who rushed to the scene but found that the gang had already left. (b) No suspects have been arrested. However, Kayole Police Station Case File No.135/308/2012 was opened by the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) officers who are following crucial leads which may lead to the arrest of the culprits. The case is, therefore, pending under investigations.

  • David Ouma Ochieng'

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, it really beats logic as to why this watchman has not been arrested. All this time when these people were actually hacking the pastor, he was there, but he never raised the alarm. Up to now, the police have not arrested him. Could the Minister tell us why he has been left loose without being arrested?

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the information which I have given, I think the watchman made frantic efforts to communicate with the pastor before he was hacked to death. He also communicated with the neighbours pleading with them to assist him. Therefore, I do not think it would be in order to arrest and charge him with the murder of the pastor.

  • David Ouma Ochieng'

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the information that was given to the police was that this pastor had an exchange with the former chairman of the church, Mr. Gideon Mulili and ABC Makadara Church pastor, Canon Mutua, a few days before he died. The two actually threatened him. They had warned him against revealing certain things to the Bishop. They told him if he did so, they would deal with him. Three days later, he was actually killed. Could the Minister also consider taking some action by arresting the two for questioning, so that we may know whether they participated in this particular heinous act?

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the information given by the hon. Member is correct that the Chairman and the pastor had quarreled three days before he was

  • 6 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • murdered, then they should record a statement with the police and have these two gentlemen arrested.
  • Mr. Speaker

    The hon. Member for Kilome?

  • ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS

  • Question No.1617
  • STATUS OF INVESTIGATION OF MONEY LAUNDERING AT CHARTERHOUSE BANK BY KACC

  • John Harun Mwau

    asked the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs if he could clarify whether the then Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC) in 2004 and 2005 investigated the offence of money laundering at Charterhouse Bank Ltd. and, if it is true, to provide a list of the offences established.

  • The Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional
  • Affairs (Mr. Cheptumo): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. As confirmed to this honourable House, on 2nd August, 2012, the then Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC) had not investigated Charterhouse Bank Ltd. over the offence of money laundering in 2004 to 2005 as there was no law existing then that defined money laundering as an offence in Kenya. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when answering this Question on 2nd of August again, I undertook to peruse the two reports of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, being the report on Charterhouse Bank Ltd. Investigation and the Report on the Petition on Charterhouse Bank Ltd. with a view to ascertaining whether or not the bank was closed due to allegations of money laundering. I have perused through the two reports and I am satisfied that the bank was closed due to the bank’s failure to follow banking prudential guidelines and not money laundering. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish also to confirm that between 2004 and 2009, Mr. Henry Mwithya or any other officer of the Commission did not undertake any investigations on money laundering at Charterhouse Bank Ltd. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
  • John Harun Mwau

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank the Assistant Minister for the very able reply. He says the Charterhouse Bank was closed because of failure to follow banking prudential guidelines. Could he confirm from 2004 to date, has any other bank violated such prudential guidelines? If so, could he provide a list?

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am able to confirm to this House, of course, that Charterhouse Bank Ltd. was closed as a result of failure by them to comply with certain banking prudential guidelines. It would be very difficult for me at this point in time to really confirm or deny if other banks were closed between the same periods as a result of such reasons. That is a Question that can be directed to the relevant Ministry because banking is really in the domain of the Ministry of Finance.

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, when this Question came to the House on Thursday, 2nd August, 2012, we asked the Assistant Minister whether he was satisfied that the Wanjikus and Akinyis who deposited their money in Charterhouse Bank were

  • 7 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • getting justice. He was supposed to find out from the report that was tabled in this House in the Ninth Parliament as well as the Tenth Parliament whether it recommended the opening of Charterhouse Bank. He answered to the affirmative that they were not getting justice. As the Minister in charge of justice, what is he doing to make sure that the depositors of Charterhouse Bank get justice by opening the bank and stop taking Kenyans round for flimsy reasons like not having an identity card in your account opening forms? Those are the guidelines he is talking about. So, really, who is the big brother behind the closure of Charterhouse Bank? He says that the bank failed to adhere to the prudential guidelines? He should not tell the House he does not know what these guidelines are? Could he table those guidelines he is talking about? As I said, I am an interested party because I have a deposit in that bank and I am suffering. If I am suffering, what is happening to Wanjiku?
  • Hon. Members:
  • Pole sana
  • !

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, when this Question came before the House on 2nd August, 2012, hon. Kabogo raised that issue. I undertook to confirm two issues; the issue as to really why the bank was closed. With regard to the closure, I have been able to confirm today here that it was closed not because of the allegation of money laundering, but because of non-compliance with the prudential guidelines. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me just mention that some of the guidelines were not followed by the bank, for example, lending to some companies in excess of the single borrowing limit of 25 per cent, of the core capital. That is one guideline which was breached. Another issue is inside lending without adequate security. The other issue is retention of bad and doubtful debts---

  • Shakeel Shabbir

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to refuse to answer a question asked by the hon. Member? Is he aware there is a court order allowing the bank---

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! The Assistant Minister has not even completed answering the hon. Member’s question. How do you know he will not answer it? Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister.

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question was asked by hon. Kabogo. I was addressing myself to the specific guidelines. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the process of re-opening the bank is really the function of the Ministry of Finance. Of course, I know there is the principle of collective responsibility in the Government. As I said, the closure of this bank was not in any way linked to money laundering. All my Ministry can do is to communicate our opinion to the Ministry of Finance for them to take appropriate action and re-open this bank. That responsibility falls under their domain.

  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, and using all the written and unwritten statutes, is he satisfied that justice is being done to the shareholders and depositors of this bank? Was this bank essentially closed because of political or technical reasons? We know of a bank that was owned by a Cabinet Minister which was closed because of political reasons.

  • 8 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Cheptumo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, truly, the depositors and shareholders of Charterhouse bank have not received justice in this particular process. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government needs to do something because this bank is holding deposits of many innocent Kenyans. So, in view of what I have seen and considering a resolution of this House, this bank should be re-opened. The depositors, including my brother Mr. Kabogo here, are suffering unjustly. He is not able to enjoy his wealth. Indeed, the depositors of this bank have not received any justice in this process. I agree with the proposal that action be taken by the relevant Ministry.

  • Aden Bare Duale

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has confirmed to us this bank was not closed because of money laundering. Could he confirm to the House whether this bank will be fined for violating prudential guidelines before it is re-opened? Has he contacted the Ministry of Finance to know what this bank will be fined as penalty for violating these guidelines?

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that there are certain penalties levied to banks which do not comply with the prudential guidelines. For example, in this particular case, in 2006, Charterhouse bank was ordered to pay a penalty of Kshs1 million. However, they continued breaching these guidelines which culminated in the closure of the bank. I confirm there are certain penalties assigned to those banks that do not comply with those guidelines.

  • Nelson Ributhi Gaichuhie

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister tell us how many times this bank breached these prudential guidelines that warranted its closure? We are aware that Barclays Bank of Kenya and Standard Chartered banks have breached these prudential guidelines many times, but they have never been closed.

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may not really confirm the number of times they breached these guidelines. In my view, it is not really the number of times they have done so, but it is the continuity in the breach which matters. So, I am not able to confirm the number of times, but there was a breach of those prudential guidelines by this bank.

  • John Harun Mwau

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the depositors of these banks since 2006 have been suffering because the bank is still under statutory management. The Committees of this House have recommended the re-opening of the bank, but nobody seems to adhere or in any way comply with the resolutions of this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has confirmed that Charterhouse bank was closed because of violating the Central Bank’s prudential guidelines. From 2004 to date, could he confirm whether there has been any other bank which has violated similar prudential guidelines? If any, could he table the list before this House? Why is it difficult for him to produce such a list? What is happening here is pure impunity that is making innocent people suffer and we have to protect them.

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Question by the Member was very specific. His concern about other banks which have violated these guidelines and have not been closed is genuine because we need to know why this bank was closed and not others. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek your directions here because the issue of tabling those guidelines is really in the domain of the Ministry of Finance. I have been able to deal with the Question in so far as the issue touching on the defunct Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC) is concerned. We will write to the Ministry of Finance to be able to deal with that particular issue because it falls under CBK and Ministry of Finance.

  • 9 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Speaker

    I will give you directions. Hon. Members, we have already spent a lot of time on this Question and we really want to move on. But Assistant Minister, the Member for Kilome has among other things asked you why your Ministry or the Ministry of Finance has not proceeded to re-open the bank even after the findings of a Committee of Parliament and you have not responded to that. Could you kindly do so?

  • William Kipkiror

    It is true that I have not been able to respond to that particular issue because the line Ministry that should deal with the direction of this House is the Ministry of Finance. I may have to, perhaps, liaise with them but I am seeking your directions because the Ministry to execute this particular issue, to comply with the direction of this House, is the Ministry of Finance. On the basis of collective responsibility, I can take up the issue, but it would have been more prudent for the relevant Minister, in charge of this department to come before the House and give a clear indication. I seek your directions on the matter.

  • Mr. Speaker

    In that case, Assistant Minister, do you want to ask for time to invoke the doctrine of collective responsibility which you seem to be very conversant with or do you want us to defer the Question for that particular Question that has been asked to be answered by the Minister for Finance?

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek that the part of the Question which is now before us and the House, be re-directed and answered by the Ministry of Finance. That is my humble request.

  • Mr. Speaker

    That is your plea, because you think that even if you invoked collective responsibility, you will not be able to do justice to it?

  • William Kipkiror

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are certain issues which may not be adequately addressed by my Ministry in this particular case.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, as I said earlier on, we have already spent too much time on this Question. I will defer the Question to two weeks away and will want the Minister for Finance to come prepared to answer that supplementary question that was asked by the Member for Kilome, with respect to non-compliance with findings of a Parliamentary Committee. Member for Kilome, after the Minister for Finance responds to that particular Question, we can take up the matter as to the way forward. Member for Kilome!

  • John Harun Mwau

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your guidance, only that I will ask now that the Assistant Minister has confirmed that Charterhouse bank was closed because of violating the banking prudential guidelines, when the Minister comes to reply, he should confirm whether from 2004 to date, similar prudential guidelines alluded to have been violated by any other bank and if so, compile a full---

  • Mr. Speaker

    Indeed, Member for Kilome, you have raised that matter already and it will be part of what the Minister for Finance will come and deal with. Order! Order! Member for Eldoret North, I have seen you but I am afraid I cannot give you the Floor now. Member for Makueni!

  • Question No.1337
  • DISMISSAL OF MR. MUTIE S. MUNYAO

  • 10 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Kiilu

    asked the Minister for Education:- (a) why Mr. Mutie Samuel Munyao (TSC No. 384373) was dismissed by Teachers Service Commission (TSC) on 1st March, 2010 while the Commission was fully aware that he was suffering from acute Pelvic Ulcer Disease (PUD); and, (b) whether he could consider reinstating him into the service.

  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to beg the House for indulgence that I answer this Question on Wednesday. I know that this is the second time I am doing so, but it is a very delicate matter involving the rights of a citizen who also happens to be a teacher. I am still in the process of collecting sufficient data so that I can deal with it sufficiently and to the satisfaction of the citizen as well as my good friend, hon. Peter Kiilu. I would, therefore, request that I be given indulgence to answer this Question on Wednesday next week. I have already communicated this to the hon. Member and would rather hear what he has to say.

  • Peter L. N. Kiilu

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would accede to the request by the Minister, so this Question is answered on next week on Wednesday.

  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very grateful to you, the House and hon. Peter Kiilu. Would I be in order to say that I had also prepared an answer to the Question by Private Notice for hon. Pesa and it was not called?

  • Mr. Speaker

    We are aware. It is in the Order Paper.

  • (Mr. Speaker consulted with hon. A. Abdalla)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Minister, are you dealing with Question No.1337? The good lady is keeping me engaged.

  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not blame you. She is a very good lady.

  • (Laughter)
  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought that, that matter was resolved. I requested for indulgence and my good friend has agreed. So, I will answer the Question on Wednesday next week.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Very well. It is so directed.

  • (Question deferred) Question No.1625
  • CURBING VANDALISM OF TRANSFORMERS/TELKOM WIRES

  • Wilber Ottichilo Khasilwa

    asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:- (a) whether he is aware that due to high demand of scrap metal, vandalism has greatly increased especially the destruction and theft of

  • 11 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Kenya Power transformers, Telkom wires, roads furniture and metal tools from homes; (b) whether he is further aware that the economic crime has continued to increase because lenient fines and jail terms are imposed on the culprits; and, (c) what short, medium and long-term measures he will take to curb this economic crime.
  • Yusuf Haji (The Minister of State for Defence and Acting Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware of the increased vandalism of transformers for cooling oil and scrap metal, Telkom wires for copper, road furniture and home appliances for sale as scrap metal. (b) I am aware that the crime has continued to increase due to the high demand for iron for construction in Kenya and other countries which has made scrap metal trade very lucrative. This increase is, however, not as a result of lenient fines and jail terms imposed on culprits. For instance, under the Kenya Information and Communications Act 1998, which was amended on 12th July, 2012, a person convicted under the Act for vandalism and any act involving scrap metal, is liable to a fine not less than Kshs5 million or imprisonment of not less than ten years or both. The Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act No.8 of 1999 provides stiff penalties for various offences involving scrap metal. Section 87(5) of The Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act provides for a jail term of not more than two years or a fine not exceeding Kshs2 million, or both for dangerous handling and disposal of wastes without a licence. Section 91(6) of the same Act provides for a jail term of not less than two years or a fine of not less than Kshs1 million for contravening the provisions of that section. Further, Section 106(1) provides for a jail term of not less than two years or a fine of not less than Kshs500,000, for offences relating to ionizing. (c) The National Environment Management Act is vested in the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) and not the Kenya Police. After the amendment of the Scrap Metal Act, which in essence removed all powers of licensing, inspection and investment from the police and vested the same in NEMA under the National Environmental Management Act, the Act did not even state whether offences under the Act are cognizable by the police or not. In the circumstances, such measures can only be developed by the said organization. The role of the police in this matter is only reactionary. For short term measures, one NEMA will endavour to regulate through licensing all transporters, yards and recycling facilities on conditions, which include recycling that does not handle vandalized products. Secondly, NEMA will intensify inspections of the facilities to ensure compliance with condition of not handling vandalized products, among others. They will also include the condition that recyclers should not receive the suspected materials until certification by a form or letter is attached as to the source of the scrap metal. They will also co-operate with the police and other enforcement agencies in ensuring that all facilities are licensed, and that they comply with the licence conditions. They will also arrest and prosecute the perpetrators. The medium-term measures proposed include requirement of all scrap metal dealers, yards and transporters to have certificates of good conduct before licence renewal or issue of new licence. Two, there will be review of the National Environment

  • 12 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Management Act, 1999. The long-term measures will be, formalized scrap metal collection by organized groups, which will deliver it to licensed transporters, yards and recyclers.
  • Wilber Ottichilo Khasilwa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me, first of all, to thank the Minister for a very comprehensive answer. The proposals he has given are really valid. But I wish he would comment on the following. Given that NEMA, which has been given authority by the Scrap Metal Act to enforce it has no police, how can it enforce the measures against the vandalism of transformers, scrap metal, mabatis and road infrastructure? It does not have the capacity! It is only the Minister who has the capacity to arrest these criminals.

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much. NEMA, like any other citizen, can complain to the police and the police are bound by the complaint to take the necessary action. Therefore, I advise those who are aggrieved, particularly NEMA, to co- operate with the police by reporting any culprit who breaks the law of the country and they will be dealt with.

  • James Mwangi Gakuya

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, whoever listened to the Minister carefully must have heard that the jail terms and the fines given by different orders vary from Kshs500,000 to Kshs1 million. Again, we have had occasions in this House when the Minister in charge of roads complained that road furniture and other instruments have been destroyed by those who collect scrap metal. The Minister has also said that NEMA is in charge. Why has the Government not taken time to synchronize, or harmonize these orders and the laws because vandalism of transformers is countrywide? Could the Minister give a commitment that the Government is going to look into this seriously?

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think in my last statement I mentioned that there is need to review the National Environment Management Act, 1999. When it is reviewed, maybe that will give us the way forward in co-ordinating the activities of NEMA and the police, so that it will be easy to take the necessary action. I can understand the concerns of hon. Members; the increasing trend of crime under the Act may be due to weak enforcement legal structure. I said the legal structure is there and provides for up to a fine of Kshs5 million; therefore, we will emphasize the need to relook at the 1999 Act.

  • Joseph Nganga Kiuna

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, this problem is not only in Emuhaya Constituency; it is found in many parts of the country. I would like to request the Minister to think of how they can liaise with other Ministries. In my constituency, I know some areas where many women cannot leave their house utensils in their kitchen. They are forced to take them to their bedrooms because they will be stolen by the scrap metal dealers. I would like the Ministry to team up with the Ministry of Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, so that they can introduce stiff penalties. They should also see whether they can impose a ban on collection of scrap metal in this Republic.

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, I think NEMA is under the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources; I am sure that from the answers that I have given, there will be need to look into the Act. Therefore, we are going to communicate to the Ministry concerned, so that there will be a co-ordination between the police and NEMA as the enforcement agency.

  • Wilber Ottichilo Khasilwa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, as much as I agree with the Minister on the answer he had given and his position that there is need to review NEMA Act, 1999, I wish he could state categorically what he is going to do in the meanwhile to ensure that vandalism of metal and transformers is checked, particularly at the local level. He has

  • 13 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • control of the Provincial Administration and the police; so, he is in a better position to enforce this law as we await its review.
  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, to some extent the hon. Member is right. I will direct the Provincial Administration and the police to be on the lookout and bring to justice anybody found vandalizing those things.

  • James Rege

    On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform the Minister---

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order! We will have to find out if the Minister wishes to be informed. Mr. Minister, do you want to be informed by Mr. Rege.

  • Yusuf Haji

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not have any objection to it because it is an engineer giving me the information.

  • James Rege

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to inform the Minister that the amendment Bill touching on vandalism and scrap metal is coming up for the Third Reading this time. If they do not mind, they can come up with any amendments to that Bill and this will help.

  • Question No.1485
  • AMBULANCE/STANDBY GENERATOR FOR CHEPTERWAI SUB-DISTRICT HOSPITAL

  • David Kibet Koech

    asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) whether he is aware that Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital has no ambulance or a stand-by generator; and, (b) what steps he is taking to ensure that the hospital is provided with the important facilities?

  • Kazungu Kambi (The Assistant Minister for Medical Services)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital has no ambulance or a stand-by generator. This is a consequence of the budgetary constraints that the Ministry has been facing. (b) Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital is on the profile of hospitals without ambulances and generators awaiting consideration when funds become available.

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the good Assistant Minister for that open answer, Chepterwai Sub-district Hospital is so removed from major hospitals, including Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital, and is served by so many health facilities and dispensaries. The Assistant Minister has indicated that action will be taken when funds become available. Could he consider the suffering of the people of Nandi North District, where there is no single ambulance, at least, for one to be provided in this financial year?

  • Kazungu Kambi

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did a proposal and it was rejected by the Ministry of Finance, for Kshs21 billion. We asked for Kshs350 million, but we were only given Kshs30 million. This can only buy ten ambulances. Considering the suffering and the pain the people of Mosop are going through, I will revisit this issue with my officers to see if among the ten ambulances, we can give one to them.

  • 14 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Mututho

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, now that the House has agreed that we can do public/private partnership, is the Assistant Minister considering allowing the Government to lease ambulances instead of outright purchases to minimize the sufferings of Kenyans?

  • Kazungu Kambi

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, we have the public/private partnership financing arrangement within the Government system although the relevant Bill has not been passed by Parliament. However, an ambulance cannot be leased from other sources. This is because an ambulance is more or less like a hospital. If we lease an ambulance, that means that we will also lease doctors to manage it. It is not the policy of the Ministry to lease ambulances.

  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead the House that leasing an ambulance means to hire it from the streets? You can lease equipment, own it for two years and then return it. They do it in the police. All over Europe and America it is done like that. You can also lease an X-Ray equipment and once they have a newer model, you return it. Is he in order?

  • Kazungu Kambi

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have considered all those proposals and we found that it is more expensive to lease than to buy an ambulance. So, it is possible to do so in other developing countries, but in Kenya it is not possible because we have only been getting peanuts. So, it is not possible and it is not a policy so far in the Ministry.

  • David Kibet Koech

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for confirming that he is going to get ten new ambulances within this financial year. When is he likely to receive the ambulances? Would he consider, because I really believe in him, delivering the ambulance in person?

  • Kazungu Kambi

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have clearly said that I am going to revisit this issue and if the people of Mosop have not already been allocated an ambulance; the Member should rest assured that they are going to get one.

  • Question No.1390
  • STATUS OF COMPENSATION TO BODA BODA ACCIDENT VICTIMS

  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    asked the Minister for Transport:- (a) whether he could provide a list of road accident related deaths, including pedestrians and boda boda since 2000, indicating the exact roads, dates of accidents and the number injured or maimed each year; and, (b) what the status of compensation of the victims is.

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I will be tabling a list of road accidents related deaths, including pedestrians and boda boda since 2000. The list indicates the fatalities, both serious as well as the slight injuries. The Traffic Department within the Kenya Police collects the accidents data manually and keeps and provides data on a number of accidents and victims, but not specific particulars of every accident reported as requested by the Member. In addition, the life span of most of the records regarding the said period namely, 12 years, has expired and it will be difficult for the Traffic Department to trace the particulars of every specific accident case considering the number of accidents that have occurred since 2000.

  • 15 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • (b) Compensation of accident victims is covered under the Insurance (Motor Vehicles Third Party Risks) Act and it is therefore dealt with by the various insurance companies as provided under the Act.
  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to be fair to the Minister because 12 years is a very long time and take him through from 3rd March, 2012 which is fairly recently. I want to inform him that ten people died at Sirisia in Bungoma on 9th March and a disabled woman was ran over by a train at Pipeline, Nairobi. On 18th March, eight people died in Kisumu along the Homa Bay Road, on 23rd March, six people died along the Nairobi-Nakuru Road at Limuru and on 3rd April, 11 people died in Kinango, Kwale. On 21st April, 13 people died along Nairobi-Nakuru Highway and on 22nd April, one child was killed in Kisumu. On 26th April, two people died and six were injured along the Eldoret-Nakuru Road and on 3rd May, 15 people died along the Kisii-Ogembo Road. On 16th May, 16 people died along the Kenol-Murang’a Road and on 17th May, one person died.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Can you come to the question, hon. Mututho? This is a supplementary question.

  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am being very polite to the Minister because 12 years is a very long time. What has the Ministry done in, at least, the last six months? The issue of compensation and deaths on our roads is hurting families in Kenya.

  • Amos Kimunya

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of motor vehicle accidents and indeed, the wider issue of safety on our roads, is a complex issue. We want to approach it from a multi-facet approach. Before this House are three documents on this subject. There is a Sessional Paper on the Integrated Transport Management awaiting discussion by the House. There is also a National Transport and Safety Authority Bill that has gone through the First Reading and by now, it should be going through the Committee and getting ready to come for Second Reading. We also have a Traffic Act (Amendment) Bill, which describes certain penalties and what we need to do in terms of sanctions for people who do not follow the law. Once the two pieces of legislation plus the Sessional Paper are approved by the House, we shall have provided the right framework for management on safety on our roads. In addition to that, we obviously also have the National Road Safety Council, which is conducting an action plan in terms of curbing the carnage on our roads. It is going to take the collective efforts of not just the drivers, the passengers or the pedestrians, but of each one of us to sort out the issue of accidents on our roads. The numbers are not the best when you look at where we are. With the list that I am going to table, you will see that the numbers are huge, but the good news is that the numbers are declining when you compare that our population and the number of vehicles on our roads are increasing. So, in terms of accidents per vehicle or per population, we are not doing as badly as we did in the past. Things are looking up, but there is still a lot more to be done to totally eliminate fatalities on our roads.

  • Thomas Mwadeghu

    Asante, Bw. Spika. Ninaomba Waziri atufafanulie ni mikakati gani walionayo kuhusu hawa vijana wa boda boda na ajali ambazo zinatokea kila wakati. Ukienda katika hospitali nyingi, utakuta chumba maalum kimewekwa kuwaangalia majeruhi wa boda boda. Wizara inaangalia jambo hili bila kuchukua hatua yoyote.

  • Amos Kimunya

    Bwana Spika, mikakati ambayo tutaweka kwa sababu ya hao vijana wa boda boda ni ile ile ambayo tuliweka kwa wanaoendesha magari. Haya yote

  • 16 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • yako katika sheria ambayo nimeeleza inangoja kupitishwa na Bunge. Tukishapitisha sheria hiyo, tutakuwa na mikakati ya kupambana na hatari kubwa iliyo katika uendeshaji wa boda boda katika nchi hii.
  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, even as we wait for--- Kama tunavyojua---

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order the Member for Naivasha! That will be out of order. You do not transact business in two languages at the same time.

  • John Michael Njenga Mututho

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Now that we know that there are several legislative pieces that will be coming through which will be part of the remedy, is the Minister considering as part of the fabric in our super highways to have emergency and trauma centres to minimize deaths, particularly to do with bleeding as patients await specialized treatment or while being airlifted?

  • Amos Kimunya

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, there is an initiative that we are working on with the Ministry of Transport, the Ministry of Roads, the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation, the Ministry of Medical Services, the World Bank and some of the fuel providers especially Total in the creation of accident response centres or trauma centres especially on our Mombasa-Malaba Corridor and, indeed, along the other busy roads so that we can save the patients who are involved in accidents before the matter deteriorates. So, that is already at hand and I hope that hon. Members will also support those initiatives in their various areas by raising awareness on what to do when an accident happens.

  • Question No.1560
  • EVICTION OF MR. BERNARD M. MAKAU FROM NDALANI PLOT NO.364

  • Charles Kilonzo

    asked the Minister for Lands:- (a) under what circumstances Mr. Bernard Muoki Makau, who has been in possession of plot No.364 of phase 1 Ndalani for 37 years, was evicted from the plot and subsequently arrested; and, (b) what steps he will take to ensure that he regains the property.

  • Wakoli Bifwoli (The Assistant Minister for Lands)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Mr. Benard Muoki Makau has been in possession of parcel No.364 of Phase 1 Ndalani for the last 38 years according to the ground visit made by the District Settlement Officer on 4th February, 2011. (b) However, the ministerial probe committee that was appointed to carry out detailed investigations on the squatter issues affecting the seven schemes in Yatta District in Machakos County in July, 1988 did not find Mr. Benard Muoki Makau on the plot. Instead, Macharia Ben Kabui was found in possession of the plot. Our register indicates that Macharia Ben Kabui is the legal registered owner of the plot. Under the circumstances of part “a”, no steps will be taken against Benard Muoki Makau for retaining the land because he was not in the occupation at the time when the ministerial probe committee visited the said plot.

  • Charles Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am at a loss because the answer from the first paragraph is very clear. The Assistant Minister actually confirms that Mr. Benard Muoki

  • 17 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • was in possession of the plot for 38 years. In the second paragraph, he says another story. When this Question appeared in this House on 22nd February, the Minister had the following to say, if you allow me to quote:- “The fact of the matter is that it is true that Mr. Benard Muoki has been on that piece of land for over 37 years. What happened to an extent that he was evicted is a matter that I am investigating.” Already, the Assistant Minister knows that Mr. Benard Muoki was there for 37 years. That said, the Ministry did the investigations, what did the investigations reveal?
  • Wakoli Bifwoli

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that we did investigations and that is why we found out that Makau has been on site for the last 37 years. But the truth of the matter and the report is very clear, is that this has been out of court orders. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, I will read the report because it is very brief.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Read the relevant part!

  • Wakoli Bifwoli

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Question prompted this office to visit the above plot on 4th February, 2011 and filed the following report:- “The plot is developed by way of farming, terrace and planted with maize and beans which are drying out due to the current drought. It is evident that the plot has been in occupation until very recently as there are demolitions of houses. For example, there are sand, bricks and iron sheets. There was no one on the ground but the area Assistant Chief gave us the following information: That one, Mr. Benard Muoki Makau who is now above 70 years old has been living on this plot and farming since the early 1970s but it is not clear why his details were not captured during the verification exercise by the ministerial probe committee. Mr. Muoki’s wife passed on in the early 1980s and her grave is on the plot leaving behind Muoki and their son who is about 40 years old, a casual labourer. This son is now married with five children and they have been residing on this plot. Muoki built some three temporary houses made of sand bricks and corrugated iron sheets. His son had built two houses of the same. Sometimes in December, 2010, Mr. Muoki, his son and family were evicted from this plot by the policemen from Yatta Police Station through a court order. Since then, Mr. Muoki has been staying with a friend within the location while his son rented a room at Sofia Market where he is staying with his family.”

  • Emilio Mureithi Kathuri

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is very surprising that the Assistant Minister confirms that Mr. Muoki has lived on the land for over 37 years and all of a sudden there was a change of position. That makes me wonder whether this is a case of Government officers giving the Assistant Minister wrong answer or whether it is a question of the rich frustrating the poor by using judicial process.

  • Wakoli Bifwoli

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, you know that my Ministry obeys the law. If by whatever means somebody uses the courts to get orders and land is registered, our hands are tied.

  • Charles Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter of land in Ndalani and Nzukini involves 450 families, majority of them very poor. What absentee landlords are doing is to use the courts. They go to court, get court orders and the poor people are evicted. If this is a Government which minds about the welfare of the people, they should not issue titles or they should even cancel titles of the parcels of land that have been occupied by people for over 40 years. The Assistant Minister is in agreement that this should not have been done. The first time that this Question appeared in this House, he actually said that

  • 18 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • he would ensure that Mr. Makau Muoki is reinstated. So, my question to the Assistant Minister is, is the Government representing only the rich at the expense of the poor? When the Assistant Minister is asked the Question, he falls back and says it is the courts. This is a case where the Assistant Minister knows very well that it is within his powers to make decisions on titles, even cancel some of them and look for land for the rich people and settle them elsewhere as opposed to evicting people like this old man. He has even buried his wife on the piece of land. He is evicted and he has to live at the mercy of other people. If, indeed, you are a Government, and especially the Assistant Minister who is aspiring to be a President---
  • Wakoli Bifwoli

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that if the rich run to the courts and they win the case, and given the fact that there is separation of powers, we are bound to obey the decision of the court as a Ministry.

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wonder whether there are two Ministries called the “Ministry of Lands.” Is it in order for the Assistant Minister today to claim that his hands are tied and yet on 22nd February, 2011, while answering the same Question, this is what the Minister said:- “Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had actually spoken to him and informed him that we are actually looking into this issue and raised other issues which are still hostile and hot. I can assure the hon. Member that once that report is actually before me, Mr. Makau will be settled because he actually should not have been displaced from this particular land.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a very affirmative statement from the Ministry that they were going to settle Mr. Makau. So, is it in order for the Assistant Minister today to claim to the House again that his Ministry cannot do anything about this innocent Kenyan and yet he had already assured this House that he would settle Mr. Makau?

  • Wakoli Bifwoli

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, at that time my colleague was right because we were not aware of the court orders. But now that we are aware, I am sure you will agree with me that our hands are tied unless there are other ways we can use as a House.

  • Question No.1229
  • GAZETTEMENT OF KORA NATIONAL RESERVE

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, the Question by the Member for Bura is deferred generally, because the Member for Bura is absorbed in the security situation that is there, including his constituency. So, until such a time that we are on notice that he is able to come back to this place, this Question will stand deferred.

  • (Question deferred) Question No.1716
  • EXPENDITURE ON COMPUTERIZATION OF GOVERNMENT SERVICES

  • Abdul Bahari Ali Jillo

    asked the Minster of State for Public Service:-

  • 19 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • (a) how much money the Government has spent on computerizing Government services since the establishment of e-Government Directorate; and, (b) why the Government is still issuing manual receipts for all Central Government services. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have a copy of the written answer yet.
  • Mr. Speaker

    Indeed, the Member for Isiolo South you, would not have an answer. The first time you asked Question No.1716, it was directed to the Ministry of Finance. But the Ministry of Finance wrote and asked that this Question be re-directed to the Cabinet Office. The Cabinet Office in turn wrote and said that the Question belongs to the Ministry of State for Public Service. The Question was then directed to the Minstry of State for Public Service. The Ministry of State for Public Service has come with a letter saying that it should be directed to the Ministry of Finance. So, you can see that merry go-round. I think I want to ask the Leader of Government Business to determine which department should deal with this matter. So, Mr. Kimunya, we will pass these three letters to you and by the time we come to the end of Question Time, you should give the necessary guidance to the House as to where this Question will be directed. So, the Member for Isiolo South, in the meantime, you will wait until we have such directions before the end of Order No.6.

  • Question No.1641
  • CONSTRUCTION STATUS OF BIRETWO MODEL HEALTH CENTRE

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, Question No.1641 is deferred generally until the hon. Member is available. I am advised that Mr. Kiptanui is in circumstances that do not permit him to be before the House. I am not satisfied with that information and so, I will defer the Question generally. It will not appear on the Order Paper until I have an explanation from the hon. Member. So, the Clerks-at-the-Table please note that this Question will not come again on the Order Paper because the explanation I have been given is not satisfactory.

  • (Question deferred)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Yes, the Member for North Horr!

  • James Rege

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, the Member for Karachuonyo! Of course, I can see you from where I am. Yes, the Member for North Horr.

  • Question No.1543
  • PROVISION OF FUNDS FOR OPERATIONALIZATION OF NEW ADMINISTRATIVE UNITS

  • 20 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Chachu

    asked the Minister for Finance:- (a) what has been the increase in the revenue allocation to the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security for the purpose of operationalizing the new administrative units created by the President in the last four years; and, (b) what plans the Ministry has to ensure that adequate funds are provided for hiring of the necessary staff, building and equipping and furnishing of the new administrative offices and acquire vehicles to support the newly created administrative units.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Mr. Chachu, we have valid information which got to Parliament this morning that the Minister for Finance as well as the Assistant Minister are out of the country on official duty which I understand came abruptly. So, they cannot be here to answer this Question. So, under those circumstances, I will defer your Question to Wednesday, next week in the morning.

  • (Question deferred)
  • Francis Chachu Ganya

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, we will then go back to Question No.2 by Private Notice. We want the Member for Migori to ask the Question. BAN ON HOLIDAY TUITION IN SCHOOLS

  • John Dache Pesa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minsiter for Education the following Question by Private Notice. (a) What urgent measures has the Minister put in place to ensure that schools experiencing acute staff shortages complete the syllabus before end of year national examinations in view of the fact that the Ministry has banned holiday tuition in schools? (b) Could the Minister clarify whether he sought the concurrence of the key education stakeholders and Parliament before implementing the decision to ban holiday tuition in all schools in the country?

  • Mohamed Mohamud Sirat

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You forgot the last Question on the Order Paper; that is Question No.1522.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Indeed, I overlooked Question No.1522 by ommission but we will come back to it. Proceed, Mr. Minister!

  • Mutula Kilonzo (The Minister for Education)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The Ministry of Education through the Directorate of Quality Assurance Standards in conjunction with the Kenya Institute of Education develops the curriculum which is then broken down into syllabus for different subjects. Within these subjects, the materials are broken down into topics, sub-topics and lessons. The allocation of time for each subject depends on weight assigned on each one of them by the experts. All these are covered within the academic year, term date of 38 weeks. In developing the 2012 term dates for schools and colleges, the Ministry held, as is normal, consultative meetings with stakeholders and on the basis of these

  • 21 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • consultations, it was found necessary to review the term dates in order to give teachers more time for syllabus coverage and make schools more child-friendly. Furthermore, this was also to give parents time to bond with their children. The current circular specifies term dates as follows: The current circular specifies that the first term was scheduled to start on Tuesday, 3rd January, 2012 and end on Friday, 13th April, 2012, giving a 15 calendar week term. The second term was scheduled to begin on 7th May, 2012 and end on Friday, 10th August, 2012, giving a term of 14 calendar weeks. The third term is scheduled to commence on 3rd September, 2012, and will end on Friday, 2nd November, 2012, giving a nine calendar week term and a 38 calendar-week academic year. I will be tabling the circular shortly. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to emphasise that the Ministry has never endorsed, and will never endorse; a policy on extra tuition as a way of covering the syllabus. The Ministry has developed clear circulars discontinuing this action. One of them is the circular dated 18th August, 2008 and signed by former Permanent Secretary (PS), Prof. Karega Mutahi, and a Press Release by myself, dated 15th August, 2012. I will also table the docents shortly. There is also the Report of the Task Force on Students Discipline and Unrest in Secondary Schools, chaired by the then Director of Education. I will also be tabling it. This policy is merely a complimentary item to the 2003 Section 15 of the Code of Conduct of the Teachers Service Commission (TSC), which prohibits payment of remedial tuition or extra tuition. I will also table that Code of Conduct. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it has been observed that, as a result of pressure on some parents and some school managements, tuition has been assumed to be part and parcel of the curriculum delivery process. Extra tuition has ceased to be remedial and has turned into a commercial enterprise through which some of the school managements earn extra income which is not accounted for. This practice is contrary to the objective of the Free Primary Education (FPE) and Free Day Secondary Education (FDSE) programmes, introduced by the Government in order to enhance access, equity and quality at all levels of education. This practice is overburdening the poor. Furthermore, Article 53 of the Constitution guarantees specific rights to the child, which society and all educational institutions should uphold. I want to point out the provisions of Article 53(2) of the Constitution, which makes it clear as follows:- “53(2) a child’s best interests are of paramount importance in every matter concerning the child.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is why students are expected to rest during holidays and report to school with more vigour to learn. Playing and non-academic pursuits are just as important in learning as formal classroom activities. Their absence hampers the development of critical thinking and problem solving, not to mention undermining family values. It is important that the objectives of the FPE and FDSE programmes are not violated by introducing parallel fee structures. Scholars, who are well versed in psychiatry, have pointed out that inadequate rest causes physical and psychological stress, which is not only detrimental to learning but also increases the risk of mental disorders such as anxiety, depression and other disorders. As I will demonstrate when I table even the Parliamentary Reports, this has indeed been found, even by national leaders, to be the case.
  • 22 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important to point out that in 2002, the primary and secondary schools curricula were revised to reduce the number of subjects taught and the content within subjects. This also arises from the Parliamentary Reports by this same Tenth Parliament, which I will table in a few minutes’ time. This was done so as to enable teachers cover the syllabi within the time available in an academic year. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to shortage of teachers, my Ministry is addressing the issue, together with the TSC. I have also made representations to the relevant Parliamentary Committee and also requested Treasury for additional funding to recruit more teachers. I have been on record asking that during this financial year, we recruit 20,000 teachers but so far, the TSC has received money for the recruitment of only 11,000 teachers, whose recruitment is underway. I would like to point out that the clamour by this country for national schools, which would ordinarily have required exceptionally high marks because of the competition among our children; has been addressed by the establishment of more national schools in the country, which now stand at 78, down from 18, with distribution in all counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this increased the intake to national schools from 4,517 in 2010 to a projected 16,000 in 2013. Hence, there is no need for any urgent measures in the implementation of the curriculum in so far as completion of the syllabi is concerned, because such a crisis does not exist in schools. In fact, since my arrival in the Ministry of Education on 4th April, 2012, I have not received complaint from anyone that the curricula that we have formulated cannot be covered within the timelines given in the circulars. The Ministry was implementing the findings of the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the Inquiry into Students Unrest and Strikes in Secondary Schools. As I will be showing in a few moments, Recommendation No.23 (viii) states very clearly that holiday tuition should be banned. The Committee was chaired by my very good friend, hon. David Koech, and was adopted by Parliament. My good friend, hon. John Pesa, is also a signatory to that Report. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, I will begin by tabling a number of documents, which demonstrate the arguments I have advanced. The first one is the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on the Inquiry into Students Unrest and Strikes in Secondary Schools, dated October, 2008. I want to specifically draw the attention of the House to pages (vi) and (vii) to demonstrate that the Report was unanimously adopted by the Members of the Committee and then refer hon. Members to page 66, starting with Recommendation No.17, which reads as follows:- “17. The Code of Regulations governing the conduct of teachers should be strictly adhered to in ensuring that teachers conform to the professional ethics and norms in discharging their duties and responsibilities for which they have been employed.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, Recommendation No.20 says that the curricula be reviewed with an emphasis on reduction of subjects and content, for example, suggesting that English, Literature, Kiswahili and Fasihi should be separate subjects, and that the Government, progressively, moves to explore a new structure of education system to enhance specialisation and diversification in subject areas of choice and selection of careers by students, as recommended in the Koech Report. Recommendation No.22, which is on page 67, says that holiday tuition should be banned.
  • 23 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • This document, which I now table, is evidence that I have not been implementing my own ideas. The fact of the matter is that Parliament has been involved.
  • (Mr. M. Kilonzo laid the document on the Table)
  • Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other document I wish to table is the circular dated 10th January, 2012, showing the directives on the review of 2012 term dates for schools---
  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, Minister! There is something you have done while the Member for Imenti Central kept me engaged. You were tabling a Report of a Committee, which, in fact, was tabled in the House, and which the House adopted. So, there is no need to re-table it. You will just refer the House to a particular part that you think is most relevant.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    That is confirmation. I have referred to the relevant pages of that report and I will retrieve the document because it speaks for itself. Luckily, I have worked very well with this Committee and even Mr. Pesa has chaired it sometimes. That report is of 2008 and I am implementing it, unlike my predecessors who will not be named. I am going to implement that policy. Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to table this because it is not in possession of the House. It is a circular of 10th January, 2012, before I went to the Ministry, reviewing 2012 term dates for schools and colleges. I am happy to say that it speaks for itself. It says in paragraph 5.0 page 2:- “The week beginning 5th November will be dedicated to examinations. This measure will create enough time for teachers to do remedial work with their students. Subsequently, holiday is hereby banned and District Education Officers (DEOs) are directed to ensure that this is effectively implemented.”

  • (Mr. M. Kilonzo tabled the document)
  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Again, this is straightforward national education policy. The third document that I want to table--- I think it is the second, because I am withdrawing the second one, it is the circular of 18th August, 2008, arising from the Parliamentary Report that I have referred to. The then Permanent Secretary, Prof. Karega Mutahi, issued a circular again to all Provincial Directors of education, to all Directors of City Education, DEOs and heads of schools. It is quite clear; if you allow me, I will read two sentences. It says:- “Professionally, extra-coaching, or tuition, is given to learners who exhibit weaknesses in certain subjects. This is what constitutes remedial teaching and does not involve payment by parents.” I emphasize these words. The professor went on, at page 2, to say:- “No whole class tuition will be allowed to take place in any school.” This is the policy that I am now implementing, and I would like to also table that.

  • (Mr. M. Kilonzo laid the document on the Table)
  • 24 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • The third document that I wish to table is a Press Release that I issued. The House will notice that under Article 35(3) of the Constitution, that is the right of the public to get information that they deserve. I, again, emphasized very clearly that holiday tuition is banned.
  • (Mr. M. Kilonzo laid the document on Table)
  • The next one that I wish to table - I do not know whether the House has it - is the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) Code of Conduct and Ethics, published as a Legal Notice No.137, 2003. I wish to refer to Section 15 for the benefit of the House and the country. This is the professional ethics governing the teaching profession. I am privileged to be in this House together with former prominent teachers. It says:- “A public officer shall not charge or accept any fee for tuition of a student even if the tuition is given outside official hours.” I wish to table this also.
  • (Mr. M. Kilonzo laid the document on Table)
  • Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to demonstrate that this has not just been a Parliamentary process alone. It so happened that in 2001, a task force on student discipline and unrest in secondary schools---
  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, Mr. Minister! Do you realize that you are now on your 15th minute, just giving an answer!

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the trouble with this issue is that it has been very much misunderstood, and it is fair that I give this information. This is my final document to present and it is straightforward.

  • Mr. Speaker

    I have given you so much indulgence because I thought it is an important matter, but now you are doing an over kill.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Well, Sir. You know me; I would like to do an efficient job. As I said, in 2001, the Ministry of Education appointed a task force on student discipline and unrest in Kenya. It is dated September 2001. In paragraph xvii, recommendation number one says:- “The Ministry of Education bans holiday weekend and after school tuition for all primary and secondary school students.” I wish to table this. Allow me to table that document, so that it is seen that it is not just an issue for Parliament. I rest my case, wish to submit to this country that I ban holiday tuition and I will continue to do so.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Member for Migori, that answer was exhaustive; I think we should restrict the number of questions here.

  • John Dache Pesa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I once more want to thank the Minister; since he came to this Ministry, I must say, and commend him, that he has done a very good job. What I am asking here should not be seen as if I am trying to challenge him.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Ask the first supplementary question.

  • John Dache Pesa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister rightfully says that I am a Member of the Committee on Education, Research and Technology. He says that he is banning

  • 25 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • tuition because a recommendation was made by our Committee. There were ten recommendations given by our Committee, and they were all put in order. If you allow me just one minute, the first recommendation we gave was that the curriculum should be reviewed and emphasis put on reduction of subjects and content. For example, English and Literature; Kiswahili and Fasihi should be treated as separate subjects. That was our first recommendation. Secondly---
  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, hon. Member for Migori! We cannot go that way. That will keep us for too long. Just come to the question that is relevant to the answers given by the Minister.

  • John Dache Pesa

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Minister picked on item number eight which recommended that when the above have been done, then tuition in schools should be banned. I am not against banning tuition, but my concern is that which of these other recommendations has the Minister implemented since he took over the Ministry?

  • Mr. M. Kilonzo:
  • Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am implementing all these recommendations. Luckily, by the time I arrived in the Ministry, the recommendation my colleague is referring to about addressing the subjects, had already been done. We have already reduced the curriculum. I am going further than that. In the course of the next few weeks, I am going to present to this country, and to this House, The Basic Education Bill, 2012 in which we are going to put this in the law as it deserves to be there. So, I am not being selective. I am just addressing the interests of the child, so that they be allowed to be children.
  • Yusuf Kifuma Chanzu

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Minister and also congratulate him for the reforms that are taking place now, particularly the workshop they undertook recently in Naivasha. The main problem seems to be the way the information went out. It was like an ambush. I want the Minister to tell the House what he is going to do with the mode of examining. This seems to be the main problem. This is the reason why every child has to get grade A. So, the teachers are under pressure to ensure that it is realized. That is the reason why they go through the backdoor and try to charge children a lot of money. I do not know what the Minister is going to do to make sure that he delivers the information that the long-term programme is going to be implemented by the Government, so that everybody will be comfortable.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am doing more than just banning holiday tuition. I have already completed a new Sessional Paper for this country on education, because the one existing is of 2005, and created the windows for extra tuition and a lot of other hanky punky that I have found. So, I will be tabling in this House for debate, the new Sessional Paper that the Cabinet has already approved. I am waiting for the Attorney-General to release it for publication. In this Sessional Paper, we are addressing all those issues, including this preoccupation with grades As and Bs. In fact, I will be going further and telling this country---

  • Emilio Mureithi Kathuri

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to inform the House that he has banned holiday tuition when he has left loose all the private schools? We have not heard him addressing that issue. Private schools will take advantage and yet we know there is no quota system of admitting students even in the universities.

  • 26 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. M. Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, the holiday ban applies to all schools, private or public. Article 53 which create the right of a child to free and compulsory basic education does not recognize private or public pupils or children, for that matter. So, the ban is across the board. In fact, those private schools that we have engaged during the first week have already sent apologies to me; Kilimani Junior School is one of them, and they have released the children. When we are protecting the rights of the Kenyan child, we will not accept categorization of schools. They must all be treated alike during holidays.

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Minister needs to be commended because wherever he goes to a Ministry, we see differences. Mr. Speaker, Sir, given that he has already undertaken various reforms which require supervision from his education officers, what has he done to ensure that these officers are given capacity in terms of transport to enable them supervise and inspect these schools? The other day, he took disciplinary action against the County Education Director, Homa Bay, who comes from my constituency. She is a widow and very hardworking officer. He has assured me that he will look into that matter again next week. She has no vehicle to inspect the entire county. That is why, probably, whatever happened at Asumbi happened. Otherwise, she would have done the right job the way it was required. So, what is he doing to ensure that they have enough capacity in terms of vehicles to move around, otherwise, they would not be able to police or inspect many schools in that county?

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is such a fundamental question. I am glad it is coming from my good hon. Member, who is also a finance specialist. I did make recommendations to his Committee for sufficient funding for motor vehicles because I would like to supply transportation facilities to all county directors of education as well as district education officers. As soon as I get this funding, I am working very hard on it to convince hon. Githae, during the Supplementary Estimates, I will give them these facilities. I am also seeking to ask the Kenya Rural Electrification Board to supply electricity to all district education heads, so that we can get this information on the spot. The problem in Asumbi was not just transport--- I continued to check with all county directors and I asked them: “Was there holiday tuition in your county?” and we were assured there was none. I recalled this lady back to the head office, so that we could allow investigations on the ground and also hear her case of the matter but she cannot remain in Homa Bay. I will post somebody else there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    There is a lot of interest in this, but I am afraid we have to cut it short. You can look at the clock and see where we are.

  • John Dache Pesa

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am glad the Minister has answered one of the questions which I wanted to ask. Surely, he has done a good job, but he must also accept certain facts that go on in the country. We have schools in this country with only two teachers. Imagine a school from Form One to Form Four with only two teachers. There is a shortage of teachers. He should tell this House that he will use his energy to ensure that the Government allocates enough money to his Ministry to employ more teachers before the exams are done.

  • 27 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Speaker

    Order! Hon. Member for Migori, I do not see your question in all that, but all the same, I will allow the Minister to make whatever response he can.

  • Mutula Kilonzo

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is such a fundamental thing for the country and although you think there was no question, it is important that I tell you without fear that this country needs an additional 80,000 teachers. We only need to take the population of the children in school of 14.5 million and divide it by 40, and you will begin to realize that we face an enormous challenge. Right now, we are recruiting 11,000 teachers. I want to congratulate all the hon. Members in this House because we recommended that they be present during recruitment. There are a few complaints like in Bungoma District, but I will sort them out. I will continue fighting so that the rights of the child to free and compulsory basic education is not contaminated by the absence of teachers. That I will do. When the opportunity occurs during Supplementary Estimates or should the Government decide to come back here for further funding, please, support it because this is for the future of our children. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Order, hon. Members! We have the last Question, but we do not have the time to take it because it is about food. You will notice we have taken almost a half an hour on a single Question. Maybe we will devise ways of dealing with such matters in future differently. So, hon. Member for Wajir South, I will want to defer your Question to Tuesday, next week, subject to what the Minister says because we just do not have the time to go into it. Minister of State for Special Programs, hon. Murugi?

  • Esther Murugi (The Minister of State for Special Programmes)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a one-sentence response. So, I think you can give me the indulgence to do so.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Just one sentence?

  • Esther Murugi (The Minister of State for Special Programmes)

    Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • Mr. Speaker

    I am not so certain whether the hon. Member for Wajir South will be satisfied, but let us try. Hon. Member for Wajir South, you may proceed!

  • Mohamed Mohamud Sirat

    Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

  • ORAL ANSWER TO QUESTION

  • Question No.1522
  • DISTRIBUTION OF EXPIRED FOOD IN WAJIR SOUTH

  • Mohamed Mohamud Sirat

    asked the Minister of State for Special Programmes why food that had expired or was about to expire was distributed to the people during the drought season and who or which organizations were responsible for the food distribution.

  • Esther Murugi (The Minister of State for Special Programmes)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

  • 28 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • The Ministry is not aware of food that was distributed when expired or about to expire during the drought season. If the hon. Member has specific cases of organizations that distributed such food, perhaps, he can give me the details so that I can do the needful investigation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
  • Mohamed Mohamud Sirat

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Minister for her short answer, I would like to tell her that the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives is investigating this matter and I find her lack of willingness and sensitivity to this matter--- But it is in public knowledge that early this year, there were these cases in Eastern Province, North Eastern Province, Turkana and at the Coast Province as well. Documentary evidence has been tabled to the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives. So, is she in order to mislead the House?

  • Esther Murugi

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, like I said, I am not aware and I know that the food that the Kenya Red Cross had distributed and had expired, they actually destroyed it. So, it actually did not reach the beneficiaries.

  • (Mr. Imanyara stood up in his place)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Order! Hon. Member for Central Imenti, if you press the intervention button, I see that immediately. As a matter of fact, I was going to pick you. So, we have moved away from that way of doing business. But now you have caught my eye. What is it?

  • Gitobu Imanyara

    On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Minister not to disclose that the matter is actually being investigated by the Committee of Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives?

  • Mr. Speaker

    Minister, are you aware that there is an ongoing investigation into this matter by the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives?

  • Esther Murugi

    The Assistant Minister for Agriculture tells me that there is a request for that, but I am not aware.

  • Mr. Speaker

    The Assistant Minister has hinted to you that there is investigation going on.

  • Esther Murugi

    Yes, but I am not aware.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Should the matter not rest there, hon. Sirat, for the time being until such time that the Committee completes its investigation?

  • Mohamed Mohamud Sirat

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know how this Committee got seized of this matter, but I will appreciate if they speed up the investigation.

  • Mr. Speaker

    Yes, hon. Sirat, I direct so by virtue of Standing Order No.78 because it is before the Committee. I will just ask the Committee to expedite its investigation, so that they table the report before the House at the earliest opportunity. Maybe they can do so within the next 21 days from today. So, if they can complete that task within ten days, they may table it by then. So, it is so directed. Hon. Members, that completes Order No.6. Before we move to the next Order, I have a communication that I wish to make.

  • 29 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR
  • CONDUCT OF MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT, STAFF AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC IN THE PRECINCTS OF PARLIAMENT

  • Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, you will recall that we held a kamkunji on 28th June, 2012 to review among other issues securities matters and conduct of Members of Parliament, staff and members of the public in the precincts of Parliament. I am happy to report that there has been co-operation with regard to inspection of cars entering parliamentary premises and screening of Members and all other persons accessing Parliament. There is need, however, to have proper control of admission of visitors to any part of Parliament Buildings and gardens and for which I ask all hon. Members to lend the necessary support. I urge all Members of Parliament to observe Speaker’s Rules regulating to admission and conduct of strangers made under powers conferred by the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act. In addition, I wish to reiterate the following salient rules in order to improve security in the precincts of Parliament:- 1. All persons accessing Parliament buildings, including all visitors of Members of Parliament, will continue to be subjected to security screening. Members of the public or visitors once authorized to enter the buildings must wear visitors’ badges all the time. The badges must be surrendered when the holders leave the precincts of Parliament 2. All Members of Parliament will be allowed a maximum of two visitors at a time and for whom they will be responsible over their conduct and movement in the buildings. 3. All vehicles entering Parliament buildings and all occupants in them have to be subjected to security screening. 4. All staff of the Kenya National Assembly and other authorized persons must wear identification badges within the buildings all the time. Pursuant to rule 24 of the Speaker’s Rules, the Serjeant-At-Arms or his assistants are authorized and required to expel from the buildings, gardens and Members’ Car Park any person infringing on the rules and no such expulsion shall be questioned, except by way of reference to the Speaker after compliance therewith. The Serjeant-At-Arms is, therefore, under strict instructions to enforce all the rules without fear or favour and liaise with police in re-enforcing security within and outside Parliament buildings. I thank you. Next Order! Order, Member for Isiolo South! We have moved from Order No.6, but that notwithstanding, your Question is reasonably deferred to two weeks from today so that the Deputy Leader of Government Business sorts out who is going to deal with that matter.

  • (Question deferred)
  • Mr. Speaker

    Very well! We want to take the next Order.

  • 30 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker

    Hon. Members, in the area of Statements under Order No.7, we will first take two statements which are urgent. The first is by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. We want him to do so in not more than five minutes. The second one we will be by the Minister for Justice, Constitutional Affairs and National Cohesion. Similarly, Minister, you must do that in at most five minutes, not more. You can see where we are on time. We have done so badly. UNSAVOURY REMARKS ON LATE PRIME MINISTER OF ETHIOPIA BY KENYAN NATIONALS

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to deliver an unsolicited Ministerial Statement following the demise of the Prime Minister of Ethiopia His Excellency Atto Meles Zenawi on 21st August, 2012. My Statement also comes in the wake of reports about alleged uncomplimentary remarks about the late Prime Minister attributed to some of our nationals. Members may be aware that His Excellency President Mwai Kibaki issued a message of condolence to the Government and people of Ethiopia on behalf of the Government and the people of Kenya, which I personally delivered to the Acting Prime Minister of Ethiopia, His Excellency Hailemariam Desalegne. I was warmly received in Addis Ababa and assured by the Acting Prime Minister that there will be no change in the friendly relations between our two countries and that his Government will continue to pursue existing policies with us. I wish to point out that under the leadership of Prime Minister Zenawi; Ethiopia has been a very stabilizing influence in the region. Both Kenya and Ethiopia share common history of suffering under the aggressive irredentist ideology that was espoused by Somalia under Siad Barre. A key blank of both Kenya’s and Ethiopia’s foreign policy under successive leaders, from 1960s to the present, has, therefore, been to protect the borders that we inherited at Independence as they were considered sacrosanct.

  • (Mr. Speaker left the Chair] [The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Mr. Imanyara took the Chair]
  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    We were supported in this by the organization of African Unity’s principles and later the African Union. The fall of the Barre regime in Somalia, the collapse of the state system in that country and its reinstatement by various militias led to Kenya and Ethiopia bearing the brunt of the problems which arose from the absence of a government in Somalia. This included attacks and destabilization by extremist militia forces, which both countries have had to counter as effectively as they could. Ethiopia under Prime Minister Zenawi was involved in the peace process aimed at restoring stability and proper governance in Somalia. Their intervention in that country in

  • 31 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • 2006 to pop up the Transitional Federal Government was prompted by legitimate security concerns just as Kenya’s advancement into Somalia was under the auspices of OperationLinda Nchi . Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, any unfriendly comments made by any of our nationals regarding the late Prime Minister are, therefore, utterly uncalled for considering the decades, long friendship and cordial neighbourly relations which Kenya shared with Ethiopia since our Independence. The Kenyan leadership under both the immediate and former President and the current President were closely with Prime Minister Zenawi to consolidate peace and security in the Horn of African region within the framework of the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) and the African Union (AU). Ethiopia has also co-operated closely with Kenya and economic sphere with bilateral trade growing considerably under Prime Minister Zenawi’s tenure. More significantly, our two countries are currently considering several projects in common such as the various forces of the Lamu Port-South Sudan- Ethiopia Project (LAPSSET), among others. Kenya also recognizes the substantial contribution the late Meles Zenawi made to the social and economic advancement of Ethiopia. The late Prime Minister was instrumental in bringing peace and stability and rapid development to Ethiopia following long periods of devastating civil war and natural calamities such drought. Indeed, under his leadership---
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Minister! There is a point of order from hon. Mbadi! What is it?

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You did make an indication that, really, we did not have time and I believe that Parliament’s time need to be used effectively. I have been listening to the Minister and do not understand why the Statement is called for. Heads of State have been dying in this continent and we have never heard anything. If there is a specific reason---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Order! You are now taking the Minister’s time.

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he should tell us why this Statement is necessary. If there are Kenyans who made unnecessary remarks, he should tell us rather than making it general.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Minister, continue!

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Thank you for your protection, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is clear that the strong foundation laid by the late Prime Minister will remain a critical force in sustaining the continued growth of Ethiopia in the political, social and economic spheres. I wish to give the assurance, in my capacity as the Minister for Foreign Affairs, that unfriendly remarks made by any of our nationals regarding the late Ethiopian Prime Minister do not in any way represent the position of the Government of Kenya. We will continue to hold the Government and people of Ethiopia and the late Prime Minister, Meles Zenawi, in high esteem. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the eighth year transitional period in Somalia comes to an end, we also recognize the very positive role that the late Prime Minister Zenawi played in stabilizing Somalia. In that regard, I reiterate His Excellency President Kibaki’s call for a peaceful and transparent conclusion to the transition process

  • 32 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • and hail the historic elections held a few days ago leading to the swearing in of the new Parliament. I, particularly, welcome the election of the new Speaker, hon. Mohamed Osman Jawal. This is a very positive step forward and the Kenyan Government now calls upon the Speaker to ensure that---
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Minister! There is a point of order from hon. Shebesh.

  • Rachel Wambui Shebesh

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Statement does not seem to say who made disparaging remarks. This is the Floor of the National Assembly; this is a House that is taken seriously on national television. The Minister cannot be making a Statement on hearsay. He is not telling us who made these remarks, what they were and how they affect the Government. Honestly, we cannot be coming to do public relations for one side of the Government against the other.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Hon. Shebesh, I do not think that the Minister mentioned any Member of Parliament. Minister, let me hear what you have to say with regard to what hon. Shebesh has said.

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rose to make these comments because as the Minister for Foreign Affairs, we have had a complaint from Ethiopia about unsavory comments being made about their country. I want to take the Floor of this House to reassure the Ethiopian Government that Kenyans are free to make their comments, but that does not represent the Government position. I think that is the basis upon which this Statement is being made---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Very well! I think that is sufficient clarification.

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I conclude my remarks by assuring the people of Somalia that Kenya looks forward to working with the new Parliament of Somalia as well as whoever will be elected as President.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Minister! Are you referring to Somalia or Ethiopia? In your Statement, you have read “Somalia” instead of “Ethiopia.”

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you listened to me carefully, I did mention the role that the late Prime Minister Zenawi played in Somalia. As a continuation of that---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Okay. Conclude then!

  • Sam Ongeri (The Minister for Foreign Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I conclude my remarks by assuring the people of Somalia that Kenya looks forward to working with the new Parliament of Somalia as well as whoever will be elected as President. We have no preference for any of the candidates and it is up to the people of Somalia, through their new Parliament, to elect their leadership. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs!

  • 33 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • TABLING OF DRAFT ELECTIONS RULES AND REGULATIONS

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall that on 28th August, 2012, hon. John Mbadi, Member for Gwasi, rose on a point of order to seek a Ministerial Statement from my Ministry on the tabling of the Draft Election Rules and Regulations to Parliament. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, specifically, the hon. Member sought the following clarifications:- (a) when the Draft Election Regulations 2012, will be tabled in the House as stipulated by the law now that contents of the said regulations are already in public domain and causing anxiety and jitteriness to Kenyans who want to contest the next general elections; (b) whether I am aware that Section---

  • (Prof. Ongeri walked out of the Chamber)
  • Adan Keynan

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Will I be right to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs to hold on because we have a number of clarifications to seek after he has made the Statement?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, hon. Keynan! You were present in the House when the Chair indicated that because of the nature of the business that the hon. Members want to transact this afternoon, he was allowing two Ministerial Statements. If you did wish to ask questions on that Statement, I did not see you rise.

  • Adan Keynan

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been on this for the last ten minutes. This is a critical national issue.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Order! Minister, continue!

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Hon. Mbadi asked: (b)) whether I am aware that Section 109(3) of the Election Act, which stipulate that the power of the Independent Elections and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to make electoral regulations should only be exercised after a draft of the proposed regulations have been tabled and approved by the National Assembly, at least, six months preceding a general election. These six months expire on 4th September, 2012 and also to provide a roadmap toward realizing the rules and regulations; and, (c) the reasons behind the delay in the tabling of the Draft Regulations as envisaged in Section 109(3) of the Elections Act. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was given five minutes to do this. On the first part of the question, I wish to say “yes,” the Draft Election Regulations are ready.

  • (Mr. Wamalwa laid the documents on the Table)
  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, I am aware that the time for approval expires on 4th September, 2012, which will be next Tuesday. I will urge the

  • 34 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • House to expedite the approval of these regulations. When you look at the Draft Election Regulations under Section 109(1), there are very many requirements that IEBC was supposed to address. They are very complex and touch on aspects of the entire electoral process, including the manner in which registers of voters will be compiled and revised, the procedures of nominations and amounts that should be paid by candidates. All these matters are addressed in these regulations. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have four sets, one, particularly, on the Election Regulations. The IEBC was also required to make regulations with regard to voting by Kenyans in the diaspora. We also have that set. Also, on the issue of voter registration, it is a requirement under the law and we have made regulations to guide that. The last set is about registration regulations. All these took time and also had to go through the normal lengthy procedures of having to go through the Attorney-General’s office, the Constitution Implementation Commission (CIC) and our office. But may I now say that they are ready and we are asking that the House looks at them. The delay in the finalization as well as their premature leakage to the public that elicited the public debate and uproar amongst candidates, especially with regard to the high nomination fees is regretted. But I want to assure the hon. Member, the House and all Kenyans that these regulations are just proposals. In fact, the law requires that the draft be submitted to the House. So, they are just draft proposals for consideration of the House and approval. The House is free to amend and address, particularly the concerns by Members.
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Minister, you are now anticipating debate on the Rules.

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is what we have placed before the House and are asking that the House do consider them and take the necessary action within the stipulated time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do table this.

  • (Mr. Wamalwa laid the documents on the Table)
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Ms. Amina Abdalla, I am aware that this morning you had a Committee meeting on this issue. What do you have to say?

  • Amina Abdalla

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will put that blame squarely where it belongs. The Committee on Delegated Legislation had written to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) on 14th May regarding the timelines for these regulations. Now that these regulations have been tabled, it means that we must do a report before Tuesday next week, and the House will have to allocate time for its discussion, noting that they had all the time. So, even if we are to be given the regulations now, we will have a meeting tomorrow and Monday to come up with the report and the Leader of Government Business must provide us with time on the Order Paper, otherwise the six-month deadline, which is on 4th September will have been passed. So that we are able to put the blame where it belongs, I would like to table the letters the Committee, through the Clerk, wrote to the IEBC, and so that it can be seen that it is not this House that is sleeping on the job, but it is the Executive and the IEBC that have been sleeping on this job.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (35 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Table the letters and I will take four clarifications on that, if there are any that are sought.

  • (Ms. Amina Abdalla laid the documents on the Table)
  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Act says the power to make regulations shall be exercised only after a draft of the proposed regulations has been approved by the National Assembly, at least six months preceding a general election. Even though the Minister is calculating his six months to elections to end on 4th, I would like to tell him that, to me, the date is 3rd September. Because elections will be on 4th, the last date to the end of the six preceding months is 3rd which is a Monday. So already we are violating the provisions of this Act. The Minister was very much aware---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! You are seeking a clarification; we are not debating the rules.

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it says that the regulations should be tabled in this House six months to the elections. The reasons why I raise these matters are as follows: These regulations were ready way back. Why did the IEBC refuse to submit these rules and regulations to his office to table them in Parliament? Was it because they did not want this Parliament to scrutinize these regulations? Now that this House is not likely to meet this statutory requirement, what are they going to do to ensure that these regulations, even when we approve them, will not be challenged as being illegal, because we will approve them after the expiry of the time prescribed?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! It is a clarification that you are seeking and you have done very well on that. Is there any other clarification being sought?

  • Elias Peter Mbau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know in the past we have been subjected, as a House, to be being ambushed by the Executive, whereupon we end up not doing as thorough a job as this House needs to do. So, I would like the Minister to confirm to the House, and the country, that the delay in laying these rules and regulations--- They are going to set the exact timetable which the IEBC is supposed to follow. We know that the delay is not part of a conspiracy, or a scheme, to ensure eventually elections in this country are not held on 4th March, 2013.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    You have done well.

  • Rachel Wambui Shebesh

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to seek a clarification on the Statement by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and he is not in. Can I go ahead because his assistant is here?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    No! Directions were given by the Speaker on that. It was unsolicited request and any Minister can do that. It is the discretion of the Speaker as---

  • Rachel Wambui Shebesh

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I give an unsolicited statement on the same?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! You are out of order. Are there any other clarifications being sought on the rules?

  • Nicholas Gumbo

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the clarification I seek from the Minister following on what Mr. Mbadi said, it is clear we will not be able to approve these regulations six months before the elections as required in law. Could the Minister

  • 36 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • assure the House and the country that we will still have election on 4th March next year, and say how we are going to have those elections without these regulations being approved by the National Assembly?
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Minister, it has been brought to my attention that these regulations are not signed. They do not bear any signature. So, if you are taking the responsibility, you need to sign them.

  • Hon. Members

    It’s a conspiracy!

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a draft. The law requires us to table the draft. Once it is approved, then it will now---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Any document that is tabled, whether in a draft form or not, must be signed.

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will take responsibility for that.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Then indicate that. Approach the Clerks-at-the Table and sign them.

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, okay; we will take responsibility for that.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    So, can you respond to the clarifications that have been sought?

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I will start with the one by Mr. Mbadi. We want to assure him that we are within time and the elections will be on 4th March, 2013. That date will not be changed. It has been upheld by the High Court as well as the Court of Appeal. When counting the time, we know that it includes the parliamentary day, and the next one is Tuesday. So it is inclusive and we are on track; Mr. Mbadi should not worry about that. As to whether there was a conspiracy or not, I want to assure you that the IEBC is one institution that has been given great responsibilities by this country under Article 88. There are so many things that the IEBC is trying to juggle with like procurement, getting of the equipment and so on, half the time they have been before Parliament. We have also the issue of the coming by-elections; there are a lot of things they are trying to do to also make provision for the Diaspora. They have been communicating with the Diaspora and going around. It is not a conspiracy. We believe that these regulations had to go through the necessary stages; that is, from the IEBC to the Constitution Implementation Commission (CIC). You know very well that we had our hands full in preparing for the constitutional Bills that were before this House. So it is just that we had our hands full. It is not a conspiracy. We are within time and the rules have been well prepared and they should meet the satisfaction of this House. Ultimately, the responsibility is with this House to approve them. They are just draft proposals for your consideration. If you approve them by Tuesday, we will get them back and publish them. Eng. Gumbo, we want to assure you that the election date remains 4th March, 2013. There will be no conspiracy to change that date and these regulations will be in place.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (37 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Minister, these are the directions of the Chair bearing in mind that the regulations are very explicit as to time limits; I direct that the Committee that adjourned its sitting this morning continues with their meeting tomorrow, complete their report and the Leader of Government Business assures the House that this matter will be on the Order Paper on Tuesday in order to beat the constitutional deadlines regarding the approval of these rules. Could you give that indication, so that the Chair does not have to order that it be on the Order Paper? Leader of Government Business, can you assure the House that this matter will be on the Order Paper for Tuesday next week?

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, indeed, I was to cover that in my statement that is coming shortly.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Very well. Ms. Amina Abdalla and your Committee, therefore, the meeting that you adjourned this morning should continue tomorrow, complete your report within time to enable the debate and approval, or otherwise, of these rules on Tuesday next week.

  • David Mwaniki Ngugi

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in our Constitution, public participation is critical and is provided for. We are getting these rules now and you are directing the Committee to sit tomorrow and present the report on Tuesday next week. When is the public going to play its role? When will public participation take place? Could you provide some guidance?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    We are only taking note of the law as it is. These are issues any Member could have raised long before. These rules are known by every Member of Parliament. So, you could have raised these issues any time. As it is now, we have only this weekend and the purpose of hearings by the Committee is to enable public participation. Unfortunately, as the situation is, we have to abide by the rules and get these rules before the House before the expiry of six months, which is Tuesday next week.

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had requested for a Ministerial Statement.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I will get to requests because they are a number of them. Continue, Mr. Kimunya. BUSINESS FOR WEEK COMMENCING 4TH TO 6TH SEPTEMBER, 2012

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to make the following Statement with regard to business for next week. Next week, the House will consider debate on the Sugar (Amendment) Bill, Bill No.62 of 2011, that is currently awaiting the Second Reading. Also expected is the Committee of the whole House on the following Bills:- The Finance Bill, Bill No.26 of 2012 and the Ratification of Treaties Bill, Bill No.28 of 2011. In addition, the House will consider the following Motions:- (i) The Motion to adopt the Report on the Agreements Between Kenya and the International Partners in Combating Piracy on the Indian Ocean, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010.

  • 38 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • (ii) The Motion to adopt the First Report of the Local Authorities and Funds Accounts Committee on the accounts of local authorities countrywide, projects done by the Urban Development Department of the Ministry of Local Government and the accounts of the CDF for 2006/2007 and 2007/2008 Financial Years laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 14th October, 2010. (iii) The Motion to adopt the Joint Recommendations of the Reports of the Local Authorities and Funds Accounts Committee and the Departmental Committee on Local Authorities and the purchase of land for the cemetery by the Nairobi City Council laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 2nd November, 2010. (iv)The Motion for the adoption of the Draft Election Regulations, 2012, which will be prioritized for Tuesday next week. We shall also prioritize business that will not be concluded in today’s proceedings. Finally, the House Business Committee will meet again on Tuesday, 4th September, at the rise of the House to consider business for the rest of the week.
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    While you are at it, take these requests from hon. Kabogo and hon. Chanzu. Is there any other request? Hon. Kabogo, make the request. Deputy Leader of Government Business, please, note, so that you can respond.

  • POINTS OF ORDER

  • DISAPPEARANCE OF PIUS KIMANI KARUMBA AND KAMAU WAITHAKA

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. This concerns the mysterious circumstances under which Messrs Pius Kimani Karumba, Gatundu Umoja SACCO Manager and Kamau Waithaka, a driver in the same SACCO, disappeared from last week. This was on Wednesday, 22nd August, 2012, just a few days after the Chairman of the Gatundu SACCO was killed under mysterious circumstances. Bearing in mind that the Minister himself came to the House and issued a Statement that security would be beefed up in Gatundu, in his Statement, he should tell us what he has done---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Minister, you are here? Mr. Kabogo, the request is explicit.

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his Statement---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Mr. Kabogo!

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    I have not finished, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Mr. Kabogo! Your request is explicit enough. The Minister will indicate what---

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have an approved Statement.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Mr. Kabogo, Mr. Kabogo! Order! You have an approval to rise---

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    To read it all, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Not to read. Order, Mr. Kabogo! Please, do not---

  • 39 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Mr. Kabogo

    Since you already know, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you may ask for me!

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! You are out of order. Minister, you may not respond. Who is the next one? He is totally out of order. The next one! PROCEDURE FOR ACHIEVING TWO-THIRDS RULE IN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND SENATE

  • Amina Abdalla

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is to seek direction from the Chair. In answering a Question regarding the two thirds principle yesterday, the Assistant Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs told the House that the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2011, that is before the House is the document that will be used when debating the two-thirds principle, yet we are aware that that Bill incorporated two amendments, one of which has already been overtaken by events regarding the elections date. Knowing that the tradition of this House is that we do not amend constitutional (Amendment) Bills, what procedure will the House use in dealing with the Constitutional (Amendment) Bill, 2011, to remove the election date? Should we be allowed to amend, what would be the procedure if an individual wishes to amend the component that is relating to the two-thirds principle? I wish to seek your direction on that.

  • Eugene Ludovic Wamalwa (The Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was a similar Question by hon. Otichilo and it will be answered next Tuesday. So, we can combine the two. STATE OF AIRPORTS AND AIRSTRIPS

  • Yusuf Kifuma Chanzu

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I sought a Statement from the Minister for Transport on 8th August, 2012 about the state of airports and airstrips. We have asked several times about this. Last week, the Minister promised to give the Statement today and the Speaker directed so.

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are having a backlog of Statements because of time availability. I request to be allowed to issue this Statement next week.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Next week when?

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Tuesday or Wednesday depending on how many we have.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    In the morning session on Wednesday next week because a number of them are coming on Tuesday.

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    That is fine, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. PLANNED TEACHERS’ STRIKE ON 3RD SEPTEMBER, 2012

  • Joseph Gachoki Gitari

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Education on the planned teachers’

  • 40 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • strike on 3rd September, 2012. In the Statement, I wish the Minister to clarify whether there is any agreement between the Government and the teachers as alleged by the Union. I also want him to clarify whether he has had dialogue as he promised on the Floor of this House on 16th August, 2012, that he would seek dialogue with the teachers. I also want him to indicate whether pupils and students should report to school on 3rd September, 2012.
  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will communicate to the Minister who has left Parliament buildings so that he can prepare a Statement. I believe Thursday next week might be the earliest he will get on the queue.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Is Thursday next week all right, hon. Gitari?

  • Joseph Gachoki Gitari

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it might be overtaken by events because the strike is planned for Monday. MEASURES TO AVERT IMMINENT DOCTORS’ STRIKE

  • Bonny Khalwale

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, the Assistant Minister for Medical Services issued a Statement on the strike by medical doctors and I was held back and told that I would interrogate the Statement today. He is around, but I do not know what the Chair will have to say, because I am ready and willing to interrogate it.

  • Kazungu Kambi (The Assistant Minister for Medical Services)

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I never thought that the matter was complicated. I will ask for more time.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    How much time?

  • Kazungu Kambi (The Assistant Minister for Medical Services)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, two weeks is enough for me.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether it is lost on the Assistant Minister that his doctors are not treating Kenyans. They are on strike and he is asking for two weeks for Kenyans to continue dying. All we know is that if one of his children or his wife falls sick, he/she may be treated in South Africa or in London. We are talking about doctors who are treating Kenyans now and they are not working.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Assistant Minister, can you give it in a week’s time?

  • Kazungu Kambi (The Assistant Minister for Medical Services)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue involves the Ministry of Finance and my Ministry. The saddest thing is that the two officers were interdicted because of the same. I have instructed my officers to recall them so that we can deal with the issue accordingly.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    When will you address this issue then?

  • Kazungu Kambi (The Assistant Minister for Medical Services)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the two officers have already been recalled and they will be in their offices most probably by Thursday. So, I need another week.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (41 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Khalwale, that will be issued on Thursday, next week.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no way that I can push the Assistant Minister. But if he could, please, as he comes on Thursday, he should come with a list showing how the Kshs200 million that was released by the Treasury to him to pay these doctors--- He should show us the doctors who were paid because the doctors who were supposed to have been paid are the ones who have gone on strike and they are saying that they have not been paid.

  • Aden Bare Duale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the HANSARD will bear me out. Yesterday, the Minister for Medical Services, while seated here issued this Statement. The only thing that the Speaker directed is for us to do interrogations to the Statement that he gave to the House and to the nation. So, I am wondering why the Assistant Minister is misleading the Chair by saying that he needs more time. Yesterday, the Speaker gave him the leeway and he made a Statement to the House pertaining to the doctors’ strike.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I understand you but the hon. Member who has misled the Chair is Dr. Khalwale because he did not indicate that to us. Mr. Assistant Minister, the issue can be interrogated on Thursday. If what, indeed, hon. Duale is saying is the correct position.

  • Kiema Kilonzo

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, I want to confirm that what hon. Duale is saying is the correct position. However, of more importance is that while the doctors are on strike, the Assistant Minister brings another complication. That is a ploy to defer the Statement further. Could he tell us what is so complicated that he cannot be interrogated today and in the event that, indeed---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, hon. K. Kilonzo! Hon. Khalwale agreed that this can be interrogated on Thursday. Please, hold your horses. That will be on Thursday, next week.

  • Kiema Kilonzo

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I agree with what you are saying, I want the Assistant Minister to confirm to this House that the complication he is talking about is one that he will resolve on Thursday and if not, we refer this to the Prime Minister so that he comes and manages it because it is cross- cutting.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! That can be determined on Thursday after the interrogation of the Statement.

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. My point of order is on procedure. The rules are simple on how one is supposed to make a request for a Ministerial Statement. I did request mine and you shut me out but you never told me when I should expect the Statement. So, I am asking for your indulgence so that you can tell me when to expect this Statement from the Minister.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Thank you, Mr. Kabogo. You have come the right way; I indulged you because your Statement was due yesterday. The approval was for 29th August. I indicated to you that I would allow you to raise that issue today. However, rather than raising it, you wanted to argue with the Chair on the same but nevertheless, now that you have---

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was not me who postponed it. It was the then Speaker.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (42 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! You have given me the request. I have looked at it and I have not seen it marked 30th. . If you want to pursue this matter further, I will ask you to table that request as approved by the Chair if you are prepared to take the full consequences of it.

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be prepared. I am saying---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Order!

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Please, allow me to speak.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I just want to give you directions that you can---

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before you do that, give me a second.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I will allow you time. I am requesting you to make available through the Chair the approval by the Speaker to raise the Ministerial Statement. Before you proceed, further, could you, please, approach the Clerks-at-the-Table and give them the request?

  • (The Clerk-at-the-Table passed the document to the Temporary Deputy Speaker (Mr. Imanyara))
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Mr. Kabogo! I have the request that was approved. It has three signatures, one by the Deputy Speaker and the staff, all of them indicating to you that you make the request on 29th August. Nevertheless, you did approach the Chair and I allowed you to summarize the request because you were raising it out of the time approved. Do you still want to pursue the matter further?

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to correct that. That is not the correct position. Let me explain. Before I came to you---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Let us get this clear. I am working on a document that bears the signatures---

  • William Kabogo Gitau

    If you allowed me to speak, you would understand.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I will understand from the documents you have tabled on the Table of the House. Please, do not persist. I am allowing the Minister to indicate when he can give you the Statement. If you will persist on amending the request which is properly signed, then you must be prepared to take the consequences. Very well, the Chair will give a considered ruling on this issue on Tuesday. I have the documents. Next Order!

  • MOTIONS

  • APPOINTMENT OF HON. MEMBERS TO SELECT COMMITTEES

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion.

  • 43 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • THAT

  • ,

  • pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order Nos.159 and 176, the following Members be appointed to serve in the Select Committees stated here below:- (i) Agriculture, Livestock & Co-operatives Committee - Hon. Hellen Sambili, M.P. to replace Hon. Robert Monda, M.P. (ii) House Broadcasting Committee – Hon. Ali Mohamed Mohamud, M.P. to replace Hon. (Eng.) James Rege, M.P. These names were discussed in the House Business Committee and approved and were recommended to be tabled before the House, for the House to approve so that these changes can take effect. I beg to move and ask hon. Orengo to second.
  • The Minister for Lands

    (Mr. Orengo) seconded.

  • (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)
  • ADOPTION OF REPORT ON CURRENCY PRINTING CONTRACTS BETWEEN CBK/DE LA RUE

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the matter of currency printing contracts between Central Bank of Kenya and De La Rue Company laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 1st August, 2012. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to use this opportunity to thank the entire House for their presence today. I also want to thank the membership of the Public Accounts Committee for collecting, collating and analyzing evidence and finally returuning a unanimous verdict with no dissenting view at all. Allow me to thank the eight witnesses who appeared before the Committee through whom we were able to compile this Report. For the clarity of the House and the nation, the witnesses who appeared before us were as follows:- 1. The then Acting Minister for Finance, hon. Robinson Githae 2. Mr. Joseph Kinyua, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Finance 3. Hon. Amos Kimunya, former Minister for Finance who is currently serving as Minister for Transport 4. Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u, Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya 5. Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, former Deputy and Acting Governor of Central Bank of Kenya 6. Mzee John Machaira Gikonyo, former Legal Advisor and Company Secretary to the Board of Directors, Central Bank of Kenya 7. The Directors of De La Rue Company Management 8. Dr. Andrew Mulei, former Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya.

  • 44 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me also to make it clear to hon. Members and really plead with them that this Motion--- through the grapevine, there is an intention to reduce it down to a contest between personalities. I want to assure this House and the whole country that this is not personal. I am simply presenting this report as the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee on behalf of the entire Committee. While in session, two of the senior officers who are adversly mentioned in this report---, I had the opportunity to repeatedly point it out to them that this was not personal. If it so pleases some people, two weeks ago I had a friendly discussion with the Governor of CBK, Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u when we were discussing with him on prenuptial arrangments for one of his children who is getting married in my place in Kakamega. Nothing personal!
  • Kiema Kilonzo

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As much as I do not want to interrupt my good friend, Dr. Khalwale, I want him to be very clear because we are here attentive to prosecute this Report and he has given us information which he has heard from the grapevine. Does the House allow information which has been heard from the grapevine to come here? If it is so, can he then tell us exactly who these people are, who want to reduce this Report to be a contest because we want to deal with substance?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Kiema---

  • Kiema Kilonzo

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I finish so that you can benefit?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    You were raising a point of order. I just want to get what is the point of order that you are raising? What is it?

  • Kiema Kilonzo

    What I am asking Dr. Khalwale is: Is he in order to start referring us to grapevine stories instead of confining himself to the details in his Report because we are going to prosecute what he will bring on the Floor of the House and we are here to support him?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order? I have heard you now but you know you are out of order because the Question has not even been proposed and seconded. So, you are out of order!

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have organized myself in such a manner; I want to bring to the attention of the House what our recommendations were and then subsequently, justify those recommendations.

  • Kabando wa Kabando (The Assistant Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Kabando wa Kabando, I see you are on a point of order. You are an Assistant Minister, so use either the Dispatch Box or the Front Row.

  • Kabando wa Kabando (The Assistant Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just wondering whether it is in order for Dr. Khalwale, given the seriousness of this matter, because it is something that has happened in the past, these references to people’s domestic issues, mentioning families, spouses and their children on a national matter is a little indiscipline--- Is he in order to bring family issues as a justification for his argument?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (45 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Mr. Kabando wa Kabando, if you were listening to the ruling I gave with respect to Mr. K. Kilonzo, you are out of order. The Question has not even been proposed. You can raise those issues properly on a point of order after the Question has been proposed and seconded. Continue, Dr. Khalwale!

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my bundle of documents within the Report---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    There is yet another point of order from Dr. Machage.

  • Wilfred Machage (The Assistant Miniter for Roads)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the opening remarks of the Chairman, he did refer to hon. Members in this House who are turning this Report into a personality contest. Would I be in order, therefore, to demand that he expounds on that remark or withdraws because it is holding us in bad taste? Substantiate!

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Indeed, Dr. Khalwale, you know the rules about casting aspersions on Members without a substantive Motion, you know what the rule is. You are better than all of us in that regard.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that we do not engage in sideshows, I wish to withdraw. If any hon. Members feels offended, our apologies. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the recommendations are as follows: 1. That the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) commences investigations into the conduct of hon. Amos Kimunya with a view of recovering the lost Kshs1,830,909,616 billion. 2. That the same commission to commence investigations into the conduct of the Governor of CBK, Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u over the loss of the same amount of money with a view of making a recovery of the lost funds. 3. That hon. Amos Kimunya and Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u having been responsible for the loss of the said Kshs1.83 billion, acted contrary to the provisions of Cap.6 of the Constitution of Kenya, the Public Officer Ethics Act and the Public Procurement and Disposal Act. In that respect and for this reason, they are not fit to hold public office. 4. That the appointment of Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u as Governor of the CBK should be terminated and towards this end, His Excellency the President should appoint a tribunal pursuant to provisions of Section 14(2)(f)---

  • Shakeel Shabbir

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chairman to read the recommendations of a Committee he was chairing when it is in the HANSARD that when the Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade previously presented certain recommendations to this House, including one saying that Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u and the Minister were not fit to hold public office, the same gentlemen objected? So, these people were angels then but they have since become devils now that they have---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Order, hon. Shakeel! What point of order are you raising? I have not so far heard a point of order being raised other than interrupting the hon. Member. What is your point of order?

  • Shakeel Shabbir

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is about the position of the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), hon. Bonny

  • 46 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Khalwale, on the suitability of these persons to hold public office. Can he clarify whether he has changed his opinion about them?
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Order! You are out of order. Seeking clarification at this moment is not in order, because the Mover has not even finished moving, neither has the Question been proposed, as I have said many times. Hon. Members, can you allow hon. Bonny Khalwale to move? I can see that hon. Eseli has a point of order. What is it, Dr. Eseli?

  • David Eseli Simiyu

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek your guidance, with all due respect to my colleague, hon. Bonny Khalwale, the Chairman of the PAC. The method he is using, of starting with the Recommendations part of the Report, is unprecedented. So, I seek your guidance as to whether it is in order.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Khalwale did explain why he is going that way. So, procedurally, we cannot stop him. He indicated the reason. What is your point of order, hon. Shabesh?

  • Rachel Wambui Shebesh

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek clarification as to whether there is conflict of interest between the PAC and the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, given the fact that the two Committees were looking into the same issue. We already have precedence in this House. The issue was being investigated by the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade but the PAC took it up and brought their Report to the House ahead of the other Committee. In the circumstances, what happens to the work of the Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade, which is currently looking into the same matter?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Shabesh, I appreciate your point but that is a matter for the House Business Committee, which approved this Report for debate this afternoon. Hon. Duale, what is your point of order?

  • Aden Bare Duale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need you to give direction. This is a matter of national importance. There are procedures to be followed. In a number of times, you have reminded hon. Members that we will do well for this country if the Chair of the PAC is allowed to move the Motion, have it seconded and the Question proposed, so that we can debate it.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Mbadi, yours shall be the very last one. Please, it had better be a point of order.

  • John Mbadi Ng'ong'o

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, mine is, really, to plead with the Chair. This is a very important matter. We are interested in listening to the Mover and the seconder of the Motion, so that we can make an informed decision. The recommendations in this Report are weighty. Could you, kindly, allow the Mover to proceed uninterrupted?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Yes, but it is also hon. Members’ right to raise points of order if they do as, indeed, hon. Charles Kilonzo is on a point of order. Yes, hon. Charles Kilonzo.

  • Charles Kilonzo

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I concur with your position but I also appeal to hon. Members that we need to get a hearing. The only way we can achieve it is to restrain ourselves from too much interruption. In as much as there are

  • 47 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • those of us who may not be in agreement with the Report, as much as possible, it is only fair for the Committee’s work to be heard by this House, through the Chair.
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Members, you have, indeed, raised all those preliminaries. Hon. Khalwale, please, continue. Let us avoid raising unnecessary points of order to enable him to at least move the Motion.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that indulgence. I truly want to appeal to fellow hon. Members that I started deliberately by giving you the names of the witnesses, so that you can realise that what I am doing this afternoon is merely reported speech. It is not my evidence. I am simply appearing before the House with these facts, so that you can give me an opportunity to persuade you to agree with us on our findings. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I was briefly interrupted, I was going on with the fourth recommendation, which was requesting the President to appoint a tribunal, pursuant to the provisions of Sections 14(2)(f) and 14(3) of the Central Bank of Kenya Act, Cap.491. In the meantime, the Committee requests that Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u must step aside from office with immediate effect. The fifth recommendation is that the Committee concurs with the Cabinet decision for the Government of Kenya to enter into a joint venture with De La Rue company with respect to the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant; but notes several anomalies relating to the Draft Joint Venture Agreement, which I have attached. For that reason, the joint venture should only proceed upon fulfilment of certain conditions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we recommend that the joint venture should not tie the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) to signing a ten year currency printing contract with De La Rue as this contravenes Government procurement procedures and regulations since the CBK cannot be guaranteed a fair market price for currency printing, unless there is a competitive procurement process. We further suggest that the joint venture must address the issue of the capacity of the plant, given that the machines and technology in use at the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant lack the capacity to effectively and efficiently print huge volumes of bank notes with enhanced security features. Besides the attachments we have put in this Report to explain this fact; that is why De La Rue preferred the controversial tender of 1.7 billion pieces of bank notes for the CBK to be printed in Malta, and not in Nairobi, at their Ruaraka plant. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, besides, the Government must also address the complex structure of De La Rue. There is a complex web of companies all claiming to be subsidiaries of De La Rue International Limited, with the Nairobi one changing name from time to time. The Committee has fears, and we beg the House to share those fears with us. Our fears are that the multiple change of name by the Ruaraka company may have been intended by the company to camouflage itself against liabilities in future, should creditors lay claim against the assets of the company to be borne out of the joint venture, thereby putting the Government of Kenya investment and taxpayers’ money at great risk. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also put the condition that the Government should negotiate and enter into a joint venture with De La Rue International Limited in the United Kingdom, with respect to the Ruaraka, Nairobi, plant, and not its subsidiaries.

  • 48 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • In addition, we include the condition that the Government must do a proper and/or sufficient due diligence, particularly feasibility studies and cost-benefit analysis to ascertain the profitability and viability of the Ruaraka plant before investing in it. Another recommendation that this Committee would like to make is that the Treasury must take the necessary steps and at the same time fast-track the bringing to Parliament for enactment, legislation guaranteeing the CBK independence, in the context of Article 231(3) of the Constitution of Kenya. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we, finally, recommend that, in light of Article 231(3) of the Constitution of Kenya, the CBK should competitively procure bank notes as and when required, without any direction whatsoever; or control by any person or body. The situation can clearly be seen to cause the delay in the finalization of this joint venture, and should not be a reason for direct procurement of bank notes from De La Rue at a price which is not competitive. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have made these recommendations for the following reasons. (a) Mr. Kimunya: For those who have the report, I beg you to join me in looking at the executive summary of the report. We have found that since Independence, the Government of Kenya has been procuring bank notes from De La Rue company, which has changed names from time to time. Initially, the company printed bank notes at its United Kingdom plant until 1994 when it set up a plant at Ruaraka in Nairobi. In December, 2002, following the expiry of a 10-year contract between the bank and the company, the bank entered into another 10-year currency printing contract with the company without a competitive tendering process. The contract was cancelled in 2003 by the bank on the orders of the then Minister for Finance, Mr. David Mwiraria, who called for a competitive procurement process. The Committee was satisfied that the action of Mr. Mwiraria was correct. Through a competitive procurement process, a tender of 1.71 billion pieces of bank notes was awarded to De La Rue at a cost of US$51.1 million, or Kshs3.75 billion. A contract to that effect was signed on 4th May, 2006. This contract was for printing new generation bank notes. The unique thing about the new generation bank notes was that the notes were smaller in size and had advanced security features. The contract was, unfortunately, cancelled in November, 2007 on a directive from Mr. Amos Kimunya, then Minister for Finance, on the grounds that the Government intended to enter into a joint venture with De La Rue company. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said so about Mr. Kimunya, I want to request hon. Members to see the proof of what Mr. Kimunya did. If you have the book and the report, we have annexed two letters from Mr. Kimunya. There is a letter, annex No. 10, which is a letter from Mr. Kimunya to then Acting Governor, Jacinta Mwatela, dated 25th August, 2006. There is a second letter from Mr. Kimunya, which is evidence, dated 1st November, 2007. This is annexture No.15. Let me go to the letter of 1st November, 2007. This is the letter in which Mr. Kimunya directed Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u to cancel the contract. The date of the letter is 1st November, 2007. In this letter, Mr. Kimunya cancelled the contract. It is appendix No. 15. The letter is from the Ministry of Finance and is marked “Secret”. The reference number of the letter is “Our Ref. Confidential/ 36/02. Through this letter, hon. Kimunya cancelled the contract. The reason we thought it was wrong for him to have cancelled the contract was because Treasury
  • 49 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • was not party to the contract and it was not the tendering committee. Under the law of procurement, if you are not party to the contract or tender, you are not allowed under the law to cancel a contract. We found that hon. Kimunya committed a wrong. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the letter of 25th of August, 2006, this is where hon. Kimunya then illegally commenced the process of directing that interim orders be made. Hon. Members, what is wrong with these interim orders? Everything! After hon. Mwiraria had cancelled---
  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not want to interrupt, but some facts need to be properly put before this House. The Chairman of the Committee was very categorical that hon. Kimunya cancelled the contract yet in the same report, on pages 19 and 20 of the Auditor-General’s Report, it is very clear that the special board of directors approved cancellation and the board cancelled in December. So, is he in order to mislead the House?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Mr. Kimunya! Order!

  • (Loud consultations)
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, hon. Members! Hon. Kimunya, you are really not on a point of order. You will have plenty of time to respond to those issues when the question is proposed and seconded. As of now, that is really not a valid point of order because you are contradicting what he says by pointing to another section of the report which you can do when your time comes. Proceed, Dr. Khalwale!

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Hon. Kimunya, these are serious matters. I would request him to re-read the letter he wrote. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was talking about the interim orders. Everything was wrong with the interim orders because---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Mr. Abdikadir, are you on a point of order or have you pressed the interjection button by mistake?

  • Abdikadir Mohammed

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had pressed it so that I can contribute to the debate.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    You will do that after it has been seconded. Proceed, Dr. Khalwale!

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. What is wrong with these interim orders is as follows. Those of you who care to remember, after the NARC victory in 2002, patriotism was flowing in the veins of all Kenyans; small people and big people like Mwiraria. This is why this single sourcing was cancelled. The real benefit of it was that the new contract was cheaper and it was printing better currency. The price differential was that the new contract was one-and-a-half times cheaper than the old contract. So, after hon. Kimunya cancelled the new, better contract, he then ordered, through the letter that I have referred to, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela to commence interim

  • 50 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • orders and she refused. In her evidence, which I have annexed in this report, she refused and said that there was no way she was going---
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Dr. Khalwale! There is a point of order from Mr. Elmi Mohammed.

  • (Mr. Elmi Mohammed stood up in his place)
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order, Minister! You are a Minister of Government. You should either use the Dispatch Box or the Front Row. Continue, Dr. Khalwale. When he complies, then I will hear his point of order.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, in her patriotism, defied hon. Kimunya’s directive. I have attached her evidence. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that hon. Members can realize the seriousness of this session, she had to request the Chairman of Public Accounts Committee to request for special security for her to come and give evidence. When she was giving evidence, she gave it in camera. She then defied the Minister. According to her evidence which is annexed, there was a big verbal exchange between them, which is documented.

  • Mohamed Ibrahim Elmi (The Minister of State for the Development of Northern Kenya and Other Arid Lands)

    On a point order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to refer to a letter as cancellation when the letter actually is not about cancellation? Mr. Kimunya raises issues about the cancellation by a Board. So, may he read for the House to fully understand? Let him read the letter.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Minister, it is completely out of order to direct the Member on how to present his case. Hon. Khalwale, please continue.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Hon. Minister, I beg you; just wait, you will contribute. You will have time to read the letter.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Khalwale, continue.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela, because of that patriotism of doing the right thing---, the situation became more and more complex until she lost her job. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, come in Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u as the Governor of the CBK. After he came in, the interim orders started flowing one after another. As this continued, the legal officer of the bank or Secretary to the Board, Mzee Macharia Gikonyo, who again, had to be given special security to come and give evidence--- Again, requested to give his evidence in camera. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, he then advised Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u that what he was doing was wrong. This is what the bank had advised your predecessor Mrs. Jacinta Mwatela. I have attached in my evidence, communication between him and Mr. Macharia Gikonyo, the legal officer. He was defying that advice. I have attached e-mails that he was sending to the legal officer from abroad when he was there. I have attached letters on which he has marked and scripled showing how he defied expert opinion from the bank Secretary.

  • 51 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is this defiance, it is this impunity by Prof. Ndung’u who repeatedly resisted expert advise that he should not continue with the interim orders that forces this Committee to find that he lacked the persuasion, chemistry and will to protect public good. It is because of this failure to protect public good and that he was the operational man because hon. Kimunya was not the operational man--- We found as a Committee that we must leave the two public officers to be enjoined at the hip like siamese twins, so that; “go one, follow the next one. Remain one, remain the next one”. So, this House has to make up its mind. These Siamese twins, if you separate them through any amendment, it will mean one of them will die because they share even vital organs. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to bring to the attention of the House the role of Prof. Njuguna Ndung’u. Since October, 2006, when the printing of bank notes was awarded, CBK had procured from De La Rue Company four interim orders of current generation bank notes totalling, Kshs1.4 billion at a cost of Kshs5.5 billion. Had the cancelled contract proceeded, we would have printed more currency, that is, against 1.4 billion which was printed, we would have printed 1.7 billion, but at a lesser cost of Kshs3.7 billion. When you subtract, the price differential is Kshs1.8 billion. It is that Kshs1.8 billion that we found as a loss. The Committee is, therefore, satisfied that the taxpayer lost Kshs1.83 billion being the price differential between the interim orders and the cancelled contract. It faults the cancellation of the contract for printing the 1.7 billion pieces of bank notes. The Committee is also satisfied that De La Rue was over charging the CBK on the interim orders. Prof. Ndung’u was the operational man and as a Professor who is well read, he knew that he is not under the direction of anybody. So, the fact that he allowed himself to be directed by hon. Amos Kimunya, it can only force the Committee to conclude that there was connivance between these two senior public officers, so that the spoils of the deal could be shared between them. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have talked about the loss of Kshs1.8 billion. It is important---
  • Rachel Wambui Shebesh

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I know that we have said that there should be no interruptions, but is it really fair that as the hon. Member is giving us his Report, he is also construing what is supposed to be a conclusion, that already leads to bias, if we were told to be quiet and listen to the Report? Could he give his Report without calling people “Siamese twins who are going to share loot” because that means that, already, he is concluding for us what we have not concluded after hearing this Report ourselves?

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have been referred to as having connived to share some spoils. That, in my understanding---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    You do not have to go further. Hon. Khalwale, you know that, that is a breach of the rules.

  • Amos Kimunya (The Minister for Transport)

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you could give the necessary directions to protect my reputation.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Indeed, hon. Khalwale, you know the rules on that one. You cannot cast such aspersions, such as the Minister looting, without a substantive Motion.

  • 52 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) Dr. Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have come before this House and the Republic of Kenya not to injure anybody. I am struggling to pick the proper English without offending anybody. What leads me to make this conclusion is arising from the letter dated 25th August, 2006, from hon. Kimunya to Jacinta Mwatela. If you go to the second last paragraph, hon. Kimunya says: “In our discussions with James Houssay(?) of De La Rue, during the visit to Ruaraka Plant in July, they were agreeable to change the dates without cost implications to Central Bank. Let me know of progress on this and if I need to intervene, based on our broad understanding with De La Rue on the potential future partnership.” Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have pointed out that hon. Kimunya was not party to the contract and here, he inadvertently discloses that he went to Ruaraka and discussed with Mr. Houssay(?) of De La Rue about a contract which was not his; and actually cut a deal that “should we cancel this contract, you will not make any claim.” In fact, for the sake of the truth, the Directors of De La Rue appeared before my Committee and confirmed---

  • Wilfred Machage (The Assistant Minister for Roads)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. With all due respect to the Chairman - we know that he has done a very good job on this Report – is he in order to continue imputing improper motive on hon. Kimunya; that he connived for spoils without any proof? Whatever he has read does not prove anything.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Machage, indeed, I did point out to him that, that would be out of order and I understood him to be withdrawing the “looting” allegation. What is your point of order, hon. Kiunjuri?

  • (Mr. Kiunjuri rose to speak from the Back Row)
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! You are out of order! Hon. Njuguna, what is your point of order?

  • Peter Njuguna Gitau

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chair of the Committee to refer to Mr. Kimunya and Prof. Ndung’u as twins when he is aware that twins are from the same mother and same father?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Khalwale, whatever you meant, you are clearly out of order but I assume you spoke metaphorically.

  • Kiema Kilonzo

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You made a ruling that we appreciate and let the Chair move after which we are going to do our interventions. We are still holding our breath. Could the other Members, who feel that they want to intervene hold their horses, until he finishes otherwise we are going to interject and he will not make progress?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I hope your advice is well heeded. Continue Dr. Khalwale.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    I have referred to a law---

  • Mwangi Kiunjuri (The Assistant Minister for Public Works)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is important that we let the Chairman move; but it is equally important that we are not condemned unheard. The fact that you raise issues about deal cutting, sharing costs and not showing how this---

  • Gitobu Imanyara (53 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P) The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Are you not being repetitive. I have made a ruling on that issue. What is your point of order? Do not repeat the issue that has been raised by Dr. Machage, and on which the Chair has made a ruling.

  • Mwangi Kiunjuri (The Assistant Minister for Public Works)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are responsible for the accuracy of the statements that we make before this House; there is the question of substantiation. If you are that lenient, then we shall continue injuring each other as long as we are not made to substantiate our claims.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! He has not repeated---

  • Aden Bare Duale

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    What is it Mr. Duale? Please, let us allow Dr. Khalwale to complete moving his Motion.

  • Aden Bare Duale

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is on a point of procedure. The Mover moves, he is seconded, the House debates; it is up to the House to decide the way to go; it can either reject or adopt the report. We should give the Chair, as I said earlier, a chance to proceed and conclude the moving, otherwise we will sit here until the cows come back home.

  • Julius Kipyegon Kones

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is just to supplement what Mr. Duale has said. Having listened to the points of order that have been raised, particularly the other side, they are very similar, yet you have made a ruling on those points of order. So, can you allow the Mover to move this Motion?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Khalwale, move on and do not provoke points of order by using language that attracts the points of order.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have made reference to a loss of Kshs1.83 billion. It is imperative that this House is sufficiently convinced that, indeed, that loss was there. I want to beg hon. Members to go to Appendix No.2. You will find on page 5 of Appendix No.2 how the loss was calculated. The Auditor-General did a special audit, and, when sitting in the Committee--- Ordinarily, the modus operandi is that in grave issues the Auditor-General personally sits in the Committee, but on lesser issues he sends his deputy. When sitting in the Committee he gave us his opinion in the form of a special audit. That special audit is on pages 5 and 6 and you will see how---

  • Wilfred Machage (The Assistant Minister for Roads)

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are some procedures and precedents that must be observed in this House. A report is being referred to by the Chairman from the Controller and Auditor-General’s report, which by tradition is supposed to have been tabled in this House to be adopted. I need the guidance of the Chair. Is it proper for the Chairman to use that report, which has not been tabled in this House?

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Dr. Khalwale, maybe, you can address that issue as you make your presentation.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is an easy one. The Assistant Minister can paint it against the Constitution. Article 229(7) of the Constitution provides the procedure through which audit reports can find themselves here. It provides that:- “Audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly”.

  • 54 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • They shall be submitted and I have come with myself a letter from the Auditor- General dated 4th July, 2012, which forwarded this report to this Parliament through Mr. Patrick Gichohi, the Clerk of the National Assembly. On pages five and six, there are a lot of mathematicians here, including accountants and you will find out how the top accountant of the country arrived at the loss of Kshs1.83 billion. I am so proud of having in my Committee, Dr. Julius Kones, who before coming here was holding a PhD in Mathematics. He calculated for us on the spot and he got Kshs2.1 billion. The difference was because of a lot of taxes subtracted and so on, but hon. Kones got it spot on. Since you are on that Appendix No.2, I want to take back the Members to the executive summary of the special audit. In the executive summary of the special audit, bullet 1.3 on responsibility and culpability, the Auditor-General opined in his last opinion that hon. Kimunya--- he did not put the name, but he said that the then Minister for Finance should be held responsible and be found to be culpable. It is here in the audit report.
  • David Eseli Simiyu

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had wanted to raise this point of order for some time and I did not get the time. I agree with what the Chairman has said about the Constitution on Article 229 on the submission of audit reports. It says that audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly and he has shown a letter from the Auditor-General to the Clerk of the National Assembly. When you go to the Public Audit Act, 2003, which is still law, Sections 42(1), (2) and (3), it says that the report should be submitted to the Minister, but if the Minister fails to table it, it should be submitted to the Speaker, who will then table it in Parliament. So, the audit report the Chairman is referring to has not been tabled in Parliament.

  • Clement Muchiri Wambugu

    On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I support your request from the Members that we concentrate on receiving the report from the Chairman, I was concerned when Dr. Machage rose and said that he does not know the procedure. Actually, it is true he will not have known the contents of the Constitution because when we were going through the whole process, he was still in the “No Camp”. So, there is no way he could have known what was in the Constitution.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Order! Hon. Members, let us allow Dr. Khalwale to make his presentation. All these issues that you are raising can be raised as points of debate when the Motion is seconded. Continue, Dr. Khalwale.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect to my senior colleague in Medicine, Dr. Eseli, he is quoting from a statute and the same Constitution, which he knows, tells him that in terms of comparison, when a statute competes with the Constitution, the Constitution takes precedence. It overrides. That is for the loss. Allow me now to go to the issue of the joint venture. We have made a specific recommendation that we are supporting the joint venture but we have pointed out in our recommendations anomalies which must be addressed by the Government if the Government wants to respect institutions; and if the Government wants to rule this country using the rule of law. The Section 231(3) of the Constitution of Kenya insists that procurement cannot be done without a competitive process. That is in black and white. We have insisted that there must be need for a feasibility study, risk analysis and assessment of the machines which are there. We took the trouble and visited the plant in Ruaraka. We were shocked

  • 55 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • by what we found. In their evidence here, De La Rue told us how they print money for 30 countries. When we went there, and I have a lot of respect for the Republic of Sierra Leone, we found that they had a small order from that country to print currency for them. When we asked, while we were there, if they could give us copies of the contracts that they had to show that they had other jobs, they told us that they did not have. You want to pump hundreds of millions of shillings of Kenyan money into an investment even without doing a single feasibility study, without making risk benefit analysis and without caring to know what it is that you are investing in. Going by the archaic age of the equipment at the Ruaraka plant, we found out that the only thing that the Government of Kenya will be investing in is the land on which the company sits. But, wait a minute. Who owns that land? The land where the company sits is public land which was given to these gentlemen as a lease to induce them for business for 30 years. Having failed to make any recent investments that would give you modern technology, these guys then invited the Government to invest in its own land and when risks come knocking, they will pack and go. Allow me to draw from the history of this country. In the Ninth Parliament, the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee interrogated the issue of privatization of Telkom. This was done and after the investment was done and you know who the Minister was that time. After that investment was done, today, the Treasury, through Permanent Secretary, Mr. Kinyua, is being asked to pump more money into Telkom. The reason for privatization---
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Dr. Khalwale, I am reminded to caution you that you have five minutes remaining.

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I fail to finish due to the many points of orders, allow me an additional five minutes so that I conclude this important matter. We have now put the Treasury under pressure to now give more money to Telkom (K) and yet the intention of privatisation that led to the loss of 1,700 jobs at Telkom (K) or the reason was that we wanted to make it a profit-making State Corporation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were shocked as Members of the Committee to hear both De La Rue Directors and hon. Amos Kimunya tell us that they were so patriotic they wanted to save 260 jobs at De La Rue. Where was that patriotism when the same Minister was killing the jobs of 1,700 Kenyans at Telkom (K)? This is an excuse.

  • (Applause)
  • Bonny Khalwale

    I beg this House that to encourage Government into investment is something which is obtaining in other countries including the USA. But please, if you have to invest tell the country what you are investing in and that which you are investing in, let Kenyans know how much it is worth. You cannot just take hundreds of millions of Kenya shillings or Kshs600 million and say you are investing and then what I fear will happen as it happened in Telkom (K) is that when these investors will pack and go because there is no capacity for printing currency in Ruaraka, the creditors or themselves will come back and sue us for breach of

  • 56 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • contract and again the Treasury will pay. When I say that they will come back and sue for breach of contract, somebody might think this is theory. It is not theory. Members of the Public Accounts Committee are aware that the people who packed and went in the 19870s because of the cancelled tender of KENREN production of fertilizer have come back and we are paying billions of shillings. The people who were to computerize the Kenya Revenue Authority who went away because of cancellation of the tender, are back and it is a huge audit query which we shall table here in two weeks. They are now again being paid by the Treasury. We cannot, as a House, allow a situation whereby mistakes and cancellations are made deliberately and then the taxpayer is asked subsequentely to foot the bill. I want to conclude by referring hon. Members to our executive summary on the joint venture. I quote:- “On the joint venture, the agreement between the GoK and De La Rue, the GoK was to acquire 40 per cent stake in De La Rue, Ruaraka plant at a cost of 5 million sterling pounds. The Committee finds the Treasury which was responsible for the joint venture negotiations did not carry out proper or sufficient due diligence before agreeing on the State acquisition. This was exposing the taxpayers to a loss it knew or ought to have known. The machines and technology used at the Ruaraka Plant are analogue while modern technology is digital.” When we made a competitive tender of 1.7 billion pieces of banknotes, because De La Rue knew that this plant did not have the capacity they tendered; that is why this currency was produced from Malta because the capacity in Malta and the efficiency and the technology measures to that. In the contract which I have annexed hon. Members, there is clear reference to how the printing will be done, how the payments will be made and how the supplies will be done. We were shocked when hon. Amos Kimunya, the former Minister for Finance came and misled the Committee and the evidence is there; his HANSARD recording is there. He misled the Committee that the reason why he cancelled the tender is because he feared that we will lack storage for the voluminous supply of 1.7 billion pieces of banknotes. Having misled us, he was contradicted by Jacinta Mwatela and Mzee Macharia Gikonyo on this strength that inside the contract there was actually provision for delivery schedule and payment was going to be made---
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    I will give you an extra sixty seconds to move because your time is up!

  • Bonny Khalwale

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to beg hon. Members to support this Report and allow me to remember what the great American President, Abraham Lincoln, who felt for black people, said. He said, “If slavery was not wrong, then nothing in America was wrong.” I am saying today that this is corruption and if corruption is not wrong then nothing in Kenya can possibly be wrong. With those remarks, I beg to move and request Dr. Kones to second the Motion.

  • Julius Kipyegon Kones

    Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank my colleagues in the Committee for putting all their time into the work that led to this Report. It took us time to go through the relevant documents. We got so much

  • 57 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
  • information on this matter that it was not easy to go through all of it. I can confirm to hon. Members that the Report that we have presented before this House was well researched. We took time, and there was no vendetta in it. First, I want to refer hon. Members to Appendix II, the Special Audit Report, because the gist of this Report is in that audit report. We have been talking about a cancelled tender. In 2002, the then Minister for Finance, hon. Mwiraria, cancelled a tender which was there because the process was not competitive, among other reasons. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, following a subsequent competitive tendering process, the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) was able to secure competitive currency printing rates. These are the rates contained on page nine of the Special Audit Report, which I would like hon. Members to look. In the previous tender, 1,000 Shs50 notes were going to be printed at a cost of Sterling Pound 43.83 but, through the competitive tendering process, the CBK was going to have the same work done for Sterling Pounds 25.17, representing a decrease of 43 per cent. If you consider the cost of printing currency notes of Shs50, Shs100, Shs200, Shs500 and Shs1000 denominations, on average, we were going to save about 45 per cent.
  • Gitobu Imanyara (The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Kones, I am sorry to interrupt you. The clocks in the House need to be synchronised. You will have 18 minutes when debate on this Motion resumes.

  • Gitobu Imanyara (ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Deputy Speaker)

    Hon. Members, it is now time to adjourn the House to Tuesday, 4th September, 2012, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.

  • 58 Thursday, 30th August, 2012 (P)
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