Hon. Members, I have a number of communications to make. First, you will recall that on Thursday, 4th October, 2012, the House passed the Finance Bill (Bill No. 26 of 2012). However, His Excellency the President has returned the Bill and submitted a Memorandum on the Bill in a letter dated 12th October, 2012, indicating that the House reconsiders amendments proposed under New Clause 28 of the Bill. The President’s Memorandum reads as follows and I quote: “And whereas The Finance Bill 2012 was presented to me for assent in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution on the 12th October, 2012; now, therefore, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by Section 46(3) and (4) of the former Constitution, I refuse to assent to the Finance Bill, 2012, for the reasons set out hereunder. Clause 28: Amendment of the Second Schedule to the National Assembly Remuneration Act (Cap 5). The amendment seeks to amend the Second Schedule to the National Assembly Remuneration Act (Cap 5) which provides for the payment of severance allowance to Members of Parliament as follows in extenso :- “Section 28: The Second Schedule to the National Assembly Remuneration Act is amended by deleting the second column of item 5 and substituting therefor the following- A severance allowance at the rate of thirty per centum of the gross taxable remuneration payable to a Member of Parliament each month under this Act, including the salary, constituency allowance, nominated member’s allowance, ex-officio member’s allowance, house allowance, extraneous allowance, transport allowance, entertainment allowance and vehicle fixed cost allowance: Provided that in respect of the Tenth Parliament, severance allowance shall be paid- (a) at the rate of thirty-one per centum of the salary specified in the second column of the First Schedule for every year in service, in respect of the period up to 26th August, 2010; and,
Mr. Speaker, Sir, before we went on recess you had given us a two weeks period to look at the troubles bedeviling Banita Settlement Scheme. The two weeks have expired and we have made a lot of progress. We are unable to table the report and so we are requesting that you give us two more weeks. This is because we have not talked to the Provincial Commissioner (PC), the Permanent Secretary and a few more witnesses.
Fair enough! Member for Ikolomani, but bear in mind my last communication this afternoon that this is very likely to be our ultimate sitting during the Fourth Session. We have just about or exactly one month between now and the time it is proposed that we will adjourn. We have computed the number of sittings that we have and we have found that they are 18. So, if you want to live within time then you must use those two weeks very strictly. I, therefore, direct that your time is extended by another 14 days from today.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the following Question by Private Notice.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I would like to inform the House that the parents of the deceased, Mr. Patrick Mwiga and Mrs. Mary Gichuhi wrote a letter on 15th June, 2012 authorizing for a post mortem to be conducted once they got wind of the loss of their daughter. The information that came to the Kenyan Mission as to the death of our beloved was that; around 10th June, 2012 a Mr. Mohamed Mahamud, an employer to Mrs. Esther Muthoni Ngarega informed the Kenyan Embassy in Jeddah that Mrs. Ngarega had drowned on 4th June, 2012 in his residence swimming pool and that it was an accident. Mr. Mahamud had reported to the Daran Police Station in Saudi Arabia and informed the embassy that the body of the deceased was at the Damam Central Hospital. On 6th June, 2012 the Mission sent two Kenyan nationals who were living in Damam to go and check at the Daran Police Station as to whether this accident had actually taken place. Subsequently, on 10th June, 2012 the embassy informed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Nairobi of this death in order for the information to be conveyed to the lady’s parents. Mr. Speaker, Sir, after the information was relayed to her parents, there was then correspondence from the lady’s mother who had requested by writing that she wanted her daughter to be transported immediately to Nairobi at which point it was not allowed for the simple reason that due process had to be followed. As a result, the Kenyan Embassy made a recommendation with a suggestion that we needed to have this post mortem conducted before the body could be transported to Kenya for burial. The post mortem was done in November, 2012 and the cause of death was indicated in the post mortem that, indeed, our Kenyan sister had actually drowned. After that a report was sent to Nairobi and it looks like there was a mix up because the report that came was written in Arabic. The parents were not able to interpret this report and so it was returned to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs where interpretation was made. Thereafter the final report was issued to the parents. Since this report was handed over to Mr. Patrick Mwiga and Mrs. Mary Gichuhi, we have been waiting at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the parents to issue a letter of no objection for the body of the deceased to be transported to Kenya for burial. (b) I am not aware that Ms. Lilian Nyambura, the sister to the deceased, who is also working in Saudi Arabia is not allowed to communicate with her parents by her employer. No such information has been conveyed to the Mission in Riyadh and, therefore, I cannot comment about it. (c) For us to repatriate Ms. Lilian Nyambura back to Kenya I would like the hon. Member to provide the Ministry with the name and telephone contacts where she lives in
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Assistant Minister for giving that comprehensive answer. From it, the post mortem was done sometime this month. The same report has been communicated to the parents of the deceased. Could he provide documentary evidence that this has been done? He needs to lay a copy of the report before the House for perusal. This is because we normally get a lot of information that something has been done, but in effect it has not been down. Could he, please, lay the same report before the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I am given an opportunity, tomorrow morning, I will bring the report because it has been done.
Fair enough! If you will adequately deal with this matter, then you will just table the report and the Member for Mathioya among other Members can have access to it. That is all you will do tomorrow.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of Kenyans being mistreated and mishandled in the Arab world is of serious concern to this House. What is the Ministry doing to make sure that all the suffering Kenyans are repatriated home?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I have stated in this House, the number of Kenyans who are working in Saudi Arabia are not less than 80,000. The cases of Kenyans who have had incidents and Kenyans who have suffered and some who have died has not been such a significant number that would make it impossible for us not to put interventions in place to make sure that these very few events and occassions which tarnish the relationship between Saudi Arabia and Kenya are sorted out. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the truth is that the Saudi Arabia Government has been a friendly State. They have provided employment for our people. They have treated our people very well most of the time. But the incidents that have occurred which have been negative are the ones which we have been working on. One, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has set up an ad hoc committee which has been meeting and has met with the stakeholders. We have agreed now to have a one-stop shop where we can discuss and agree with the agents when they are recruiting Kenyans for them to tell us where the Kenyan will work, who the employer will be and to inform the Kenyan ambassador who is in Jeddah. Finally, the Kenyan Government has deliberately made it known that since last week, any Kenyan who is travelling to Saudi Arabia or anywhere in the Middle East to go and work must now provide information on who the employer will be and must inform the Kenyan ambassador in any of the Arab States so that we can follow up and make sure that there is no negative incident coming out of there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the death of Esther in June this year and now we are in November, I have not heard the Assistant Minister confirm that the Ministry is taking any action to transport the body to Kenya for burial. Could the Assistant Minister confirm that the Ministry is making adequate arrangements to get the body back to Kenya since the death occurred six months ago?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, any time that we have had a death in Saudi Arabia or any of the Arab countries, usually these governments have helped us to repartriate these Kenyans back. The Kenyan embassies have always participated in their own small way to also raise funds to make sure that any Kenyan who has passed on is brought back to Kenya. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot make a commitment here today on whether the Government through our ambassador in Saudi Arabia will be able to raise funds. Unless I call him and find out then I give this House the report, I cannot commit myself. But I know for sure that once the repartriation is ordered, the body will most probably come back home because Kenyans who are in the diaspora plus our ambassador will make sure that that body is repartriated back home.
Assistant Minister, as you table the report tomorrow, could you please come with that indication as to whether or not the body will be brought back home?
Member for Kisumu Town East, that will not be permitted. This is the ultimate sitting and we must have ultimate discipline. Proceed, Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister clarify whether he is aware of the existence of a law called Counter-Trafficking in Persons Act that gives him a framework to do what he is seeking to do outside the legal framework? I have raised this issue in the past and whenever people hear the word “trafficking” they become jittery but it actually gives a proper and very good legal framework for he Minister to do what he is trying to do and which is actually not his mandate. It lies in another Ministry. So, is the Minister aware of such a law?
Assistant Minister, simple question; are you aware of the Human Trafficking Act?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the Human Trafficking Act. I know that it falls under the three different Ministries; the Ministry of Labour, the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development and the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security. But the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has been acting as the interlink in trying to sort out and solve the problem of human trafficking. I can assure you that we are doing something to make sure that that Act is implemented and these events on Kenyans are stopped.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to inform the House that the body will be brought back soon when he is aware that there is an overriding law in the Islamic Republic of Saudi Arabia where bodies not claimed within three months are buried in accordance with the law of Saudi Arabia? Can the Assistant confirm to us that he is aware that the bodies---
Order! If you move to that part “can the Assistant Minister confirm to us” then you will be asking a question. But the first part is fine. It will pass for a point of order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are aware of that law and the Kenyan embassy made a special request through the employer who had informed the Dharam
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Assistant Minister was replying to the Question that I had asked he said that the Minister is not aware and does not have any information about the sister to the deceased, Lilian Nyambura Ngarega. Let me bring to your attention that the Ministry through the Permanent Secretary was informed about the issue of Lillian Nyambura on 15th June, 2012 and about the agent who was doing the recruitment, Al Melkaras Agencies in Nairobi, P.O. Box 57908 and also the agent in Saudi Arabia, Al Mogan recruiting office. I think they have all the information. I do not know why the Assistant Minister has to say that they do not have any information. May I lay this document on the Table?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I had that information, I would have made sure that I had a substantive answer to this matter. But if he can table the information then I will be able to retrieve it and make sure that tomorrow morning, I come with a very substantive answer as to the truth of this case. Otherwise, the Ministry was not aware and it looks like there was some mis-communication and I am not aware where we lost each other.
Fair enough! Assistant Minister, this Question will appear on the Order Paper tommorow morning for you to do three things: First, to table the report, two, to indicate if arrangements are in place to return the body and when it will be returned and, finally, to speak to the information that has been tabled by the Member for Mathioya. So, it will appear for that purpose only. There will be no other supplementary questions beyond that except by the Member for Mathioya on a need basis.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Provincial Administration the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Under what circumstances was Mr. Tom Opiyo Bonyo, a former Director of Agricultural Services in the Ministry of Agriculture shot dead near his residence in Komarock Estate on 17th September, 2012? (b) Has any suspect(s) in relation with the incident been arrested and charged in court? (c)What is the status of the investigations on the matter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) On 17th September, 2012, at around 9.00 p.m. Mr. Tom Opiyo Bonyo arrived at his residence in Komarock Phase 5 Estate from his place of work. After the caretaker opened the gate for him and he was reversing to pack his car, two men, one armed with
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have been on recess for the past one month, plus the other month that the Ministry should have been conducting investigations. This response was given to this House more than a month ago. Could the Assistant Minister give us the status as of now, because I am sure that they must have been conducting some investigations?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that since Mr. Opiyo was murdered, there has been an intervening period of two months. As I have indicated, investigations have been ongoing. As at today we have not apprehended the culprits and, therefore, we will continue with the investigations. The file will remain open until we make progress.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, listening to the Assistant Minister, it is clear that, that was an assassin either hired or something must have happened. How many such cases is he currently investigating in Nairobi to prove the point that we are either safe or very unsafe in this City?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have the number of cases of murder or assassination that are under investigation at the moment. I will be able to table in this House the correct position if I am given time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, clearly, looking at the circumstances of the murder, this was not a robbery but an assassination. Under those circumstances, would it not be prudent for the police officers to look at the circumstances of Mr. Opiyo’s work? This was a very hardworking senior officer of the Ministry of Agriculture and the suspicion is that his assassination was as a result of envy at work. Has the Assistant Minister looked at that angle; that his assassination could have been from the people he was working with?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said before, we are inviting anybody who has information that could help us bring this case to conclusion, to come and give us that information. From what the hon. Member is saying, it appears that he has an idea. Therefore, he is welcome to come and give us that information.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whenever there is a crime of this nature, the police have always managed to arrest the culprits. In this case, it has taken more than a month. Could the Assistant Minister, therefore, confirm whether the police are on a go- slow and that is why they are not able to perform their duties as required?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg that the question be repeated because there is a bit of background noise that has made me miss certain statements that the hon. Member has made.
The Member for Nyakach has asked you to confirm whether the result of the slowness in investigation is a consequence of the police being on a go-slow.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the two are not related. It just happens that so far we have not been able to zero in on any indication as to who was involved and what motivated that assassination.
Last question, the Member for Karachuonyo!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do appreciate that the Assistant Minister is trying to carry out further investigations. However, I am disturbed when he says that they do not have any other cases pending regarding such murders when Rachuonyo North District has had three daylight murders in the past three years and so far, no report has been brought back to the police station in the district. Could the Assistant Minister kindly go back and do a better job than what he has done right now?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I recall very well, the Question relating to the number of cases was specific to Nairobi and it did not mention Karachuonyo. To that Question, I said that I was not at that point in time aware how many cases were out there. I promised to go, verify, come and report to this House. Secondly, I want to assure Eng. Rege that we are taking this investigation seriously, not because the person involved was a senior Government officer, but because we do not want cases where civilians or any other person is murdered and the culprits involved go scot-free.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) My Ministry has no authority to control, regulate or monitor Government expenditure on advertisements in media houses. In my view, this Question should have been directed to the Office of the Prime Minister, which coordinates all Ministries. However, I have managed to gather expenditures on advertisements from 23 out of the 42 Ministries, which I believe broadly reflect the Government expenditure on advertisement.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is saying that he is not able to table the contracts. These are contracts worth Kshs1 billion. Therefore, if he does not table the contracts before Parliament, it means that he is not ready to answer the Question. We must push him to come back when he has these contracts because that is the gist of the matter. We want to see how Kshs1 billion was appropriated.
Order! That does not pass for a valid point of order, Member for Ikolomani. You will want to revisit the HANSARD and you will want to see that it does not. Go and look at all the words you have uttered this afternoon as you raised that point.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am shocked by the response by the Assistant Minister. To say the least, first and foremost, there are over 40 Ministries and the response is on 23 Ministries. This means that there is a whole lot of Ministries that are not covered. In part (b), he has talked of responsive Ministries. That means that some could be of a lesser importance and others are supposed to report. We have not bothered with that. This Question has been with the Assistant Minister for over nine months and he had all the time. I am not satisfied because---
Order, Member for Naivasha! You can do better than that. Honestly, it is Question Time. You are not satisfied with the answer; prosecute your concern, so that it is responded to by the Assistant Minister.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am guided. I am not satisfied with the answer in its entirety. It is just a joke. There are no contracts attached and well over 18 Ministries are not covered. Last year alone, about Kshs41 billion was spent in advertisements.
Order, Member for Naivasha! It is Question Time. If you look at the relevant Standing Order, it tells you that you should not use Question Time to debate,
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence because I have waited for a year to get an answer only to get this shoddy answer. I stand guided.
I read the rules for you?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand guided. I am not satisfied with this answer because no contracts are attached and over 18 Ministries are not covered. More importantly, the figures mentioned here are just a skeleton of the actual story.
Assistant Minister, you have no question. Maybe there is another one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister confirm to this House whether, indeed, there are contracts or not? If there are contracts, were they competitively procured?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot confirm that, but according to the Government procurement guidelines, there must be contracts. As I stated in my reply, I have no powers from where I sit to extract these contracts from other Ministries. It is only the Office of the Prime Minister that can do that for us.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister has said that definitely there are contracts in these transactions. Am I in order to request that this Question be deferred until such a time that he tables the contracts that he is referring to?
Assistant Minister, what is your reaction? You want the Question deferred, so that you have time to table the balance of the contracts?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not tabled any contracts because I could not access them. I can only get the contracts for my Ministry. However, I stand guided by you. I stated earlier on that it is only the Office of the Prime Minister that can extract these contracts from the various Ministries. So, given time, probably we could consult with the Office of the Prime Minister and maybe the Question can be answered at a later date.
I think that is more practical; we can defer this Question, you consult with the Office of the Prime Minister and then this Question will be back on the Order Paper seven days from today; that puts it to next Tuesday, unless you want more time, in which case, you should indicate it. Is seven days good for you?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe seven days are sufficient.
That is okay. So, we will leave the rest of the concerns until Tuesday next week at 2.30 p.m. Member for Naivasha, that is the way you should have gone from the very beginning. In fact, the Member for Mosop is so amused. If you turned back to him, he would have assisted you.
Member for Wajir West! I did see the Member for Wajir West in the precincts of Parliament earlier on today.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to intercede. The Member for Wajir West is presently occupied on the issue of Garissa and the fall out. He is trying to organize something. He may be in the precincts of Parliament, but I think he may not have made it to here. I plead with you to allow this Question to be deferred.
Order, Member for Kisumu Town East! Yes, you have made your point. I appreciate and really will commend you on the effort that you have made, but I am afraid that that cannot be a ground for deferment of a Question. So, the Question is dropped.
asked the Minister for Education:- (a) whether he is aware that Mr. Jones Muvengei Mukamba (TSC No. 26438) was released by the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) to the Department of Defence with effect from 3rd September, 1979 and that upon his release the TSC suspended his pension in respect to his teaching service and undertook to pay him upon his retirement from the Armed Forces; (b) whether he is also aware that the said person has not been paid the pension since his retirement from the Armed Forces on 28th September, 2007; and, (c) how much his pension will be and when he will be paid.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that Mr. Jones Muvengei Mukamba (TSC No.26438) was released by the Teachers Service Commission to the Department of Defence with effect from 3rd September, 1979, and that upon his release the TSC suspended his pension in respect to his teaching service and undertook to pay him upon his retirement from the Armed Forces. (b) I am aware that he has not been paid the pension since his retirement from the Armed Forces on 28th September, 2007. This is because he is yet to forward the documents asked for in a letter reference TSC/26438 dated 5th March, 2012, which are necessary for processing his pension. (c) The amount to be paid will be known after the TSC processes the pension documents and submits them to the Director of Pensions, Ministry of Finance, who will work out the final pension Mr. Mukamba will be paid after he has submitted the required documents.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sure the Assistant Minister is lucky because we are in Parliament. I do not know what action you would have taken if we were in a classroom. I am saying that because this Question was prosecuted by the
Fair enough. Mr. Assistant Minister, do you want to react to your colleague? In fact, the substantive Minister had asked for time to bring a more substantive answer. But you are giving us an answer which is otherwise said to be inadequate?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the substantive Minister is the one who has signed the same copy that I have. That means he has verified that the documents that we want have not been submitted. All we want are the documents so that we can process the pension. We are not holding the money. All we want are the documents and then the gentleman will get his money.
Fair enough. In those circumstances, before I give any further directions, I will want to acquaint myself with the record of the HANSARD and I will give directions on Thursday. So, the Question will appear on the Order Paper on Thursday this week at 2.30 p.m. Mr. Assistant Minister, please be in the House in the event that we have to proceed with supplementary questions from the answer that you have given. Hon. K. Kilonzo, please be available also in the event that you have to prosecute the Question beyond there.
Next Question by hon. Baiya.
Is Mr. Baiya not here? His Question is dropped.
Next Question by hon. Duale.
Is Mr. Duale not here?
What is it Dr. Nuh?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sincerely want to apologise because I was to approach your Chair on the issue of hon. Duale who contacted me earlier in the morning because of the issues that are happening in his constituency. We are all aware of them but, unfortunately, I forgot to contact your office. I wish that this Question be deferred on the strength of that commitment.
Order! The second part cannot hold; that you wish that this Question be deferred. We do not do our business that way. An hon. Member does not stand on the Floor and request that the Question be deferred on behalf of another hon. Member. The first part is okay and I understand it. It is human that you forgot to approach me well in time before we got to this Question. So, in those circumstances - and they are very special circumstances - I will defer the Question to Wednesday morning next week. Please communicate to the hon. Member.
Next Question by hon. Dr. Nuh.
asked the Minister for Roads:- (a) which roads were tendered for under Bura Constituency KERRA in the 2011/2012 financial year; (b) whether he could provide the names and addresses of the companies which bid for each of the roads and provide the evaluation report showing the scores of each of the companies under each road; and, (c) what is the status of works on each road.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The following 15 roads were tendered for under the Bura Constituency Roads Committee in the Financial Year 2011/2012: 1. Madogo-Mbalambala 2. Mlanjo 3. Junction B8 4. Junction B8 Bura-Bura Bridge 5. Junction B8 Bura – Bangale 6. Nanighi-Sala 7. Matangala-Subu 8. Bura-Chwele 9. Malka Mansa 10. Junction B8 Bilbil-Waldesa 11. Junction URP6 – Mitiboma 12. Junction B8 – Jajavo 13. Junction B8 Chardede-Kabba
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am unable to proceed to prosecute the Question because the information the Assistant Minister has just tabled should have been part of the answer which I do not have. I would request for some more time as I look at the appendices before I can be able to interrogate the Question, maybe, tomorrow or on Thursday.
Mr. Assistant Minister, is Thursday good for you so that the hon. Member has time to look at the information you have tabled?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Very well. It is so directed.
Next Question by hon. Mwaita.
asked the Attorney-General:- (a) whether he is aware that the new Constitution advocates for the use of Alternative Dispute Resolution in settlement of disputes and if he could clarify whether the accreditation of the mediators and arbitrators is done in the United Kingdom through the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (Kenya branch);
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have a written answer.
Is the Attorney-General here? The Attorney-General does not seem to be in the House. Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs, can you hold brief for the Attorney-General on Question No.1806?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, may I request him to answer this Question tomorrow afternoon?
Very well. Hon. Mwaita, unfortunately, the Attorney-General is not here although the circumstances are understandable. But tomorrow afternoon is not too far. It is so ordered.
Next Question by hon. Mohammed Hussein Ali.
NON-PROVISION OF ELECTRICITY TO LAFEY TOWN BY REA Well, it would appear the hon. Mohammed Hussein Ali is not in the House and the Question is dropped.
That brings us to the end of Question Time. Next Order! From the Front Bench, do we have any statements which are due for delivery this afternoon? Any statements from the Front Bence? In the absence of statements, we will then get requests for statements, beginning with the Member for Lagdera.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am seeking a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Defence regarding the deployment of Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) in Garissa Town. In the Statement, the Minister should clarify the following:- (i) The reasons for the deployment and whether the Government had exhausted the capacity of the Kenya Police Service which has the constitutional mandate under the law to maintain law and order within our borders. (ii) Whether in deploying the KDF in that area, the Government followed and respected the provisions of Article 241(3)(c) of the Constitution which expressly states that the only way KDF can be involved in a normal maintenance of law and order in the country is with the approval of Parliament. (iii) Who gave the orders for the operation in Garissa? (iv) In addition to the three Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) officers who were gunned down by terrorists, how many other Kenyans were killed and how many other Kenyans were injured? (v) How many business premises were robbed by members of the security forces and subsequently torched? (vi) Will the Government compensate the amount in excess of Kshs1.5 billion to Kshs2 billion which was robbed from the citizens of Garissa? Today, in excess of 40 per cent of the residents of Garissa do not have a livelihood because their businesses have been robbed, torched and destroyed. They qualify for assistance. (vii) When will the culprits responsible for the carnage be brought to book to face the court of this country?
Mr. Farah, you may resume your seat for a moment. There is only one part which I do not approve in the Statement. There is a part where you say “how many businesses were robbed by the KDF”. That you cannot say here. Just leave it at: How many businesses were robbed? So we must expunge the part which says “by KDF” because that you can only do that when we have had evidence. The rest should be fine.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whereas I want to agree with you in conforming to the provisions of the Standing Orders, indeed, nobody else was in Garissa Town when all the operation was being carried out. The town was dead; people were in their houses. The only people who were raining this carnage in the town were members of the KDF. Nonetheless, I agree with you.
Very well; it is just that part. That part has to be expunged; it has to go.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, how many businesses were robbed and, subsequently, torched?
Yes, that will be fine. Mr. Musila, when will this Statement be forthcoming?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have listened to the Deputy Speaker very carefully. As you can appreciate, the information that he seeks requires some time to gather. I, therefore, ask for the indulgence of the House that I give this Statement on Tuesday, next week.
Mr. Farah, is that convenient for you?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we are sitting here in Parliament today, Mr. Duale was almost shot dead yesterday. Mr. Duale is the Member of Parliament for
Order! Mr. Farah believes because of the gravity of the matter and the urgency of it, Tuesday, next week, will be too far. Mr. Musila, could you reduce that time to earlier?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will attempt to do so on Thursday afternoon.
Fair enough! I think that will be a reasonable compromise. Mr. Farah, extend that indulgence very kindly.
I am obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Thank you. DENIAL OF OPPORTUNITY TO REGISTER AS A VOTER DUE TO RELIGIOUS DRESS / LACK OF ID CARDS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs regarding the ongoing registration of voters by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC). Could he clarify if he is aware that thousands of youth currently holding waiting cards, otherwise called nusu kipande, are unable to be listed as voters in the forthcoming General Elections? Is he also aware that many elderly voters who have the old generation identity cards are being denied an opportunity to register as voters? Could he also clarify if he is aware that a section of Christians, for example, the
members of the African Church of Holy Spirit, otherwise called Avakambuli in my community and nuns of the Catholic Church are being denied registration unless they agree to strip their heads bare for photo sessions? Could he clarify if he is aware of these three issues? What is he doing to ensure that all these Kenyans are not denied their constitutional right to vote?
What is Mr. Ogindo? I see you want to rise on a point of order.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to make a supplementary request on Dr. Khalwale’s request.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the same Statement, could the Minister clarify whether it is the policy of the IEBC to have polling stations share the registration kits and whether this is the practice all over the country or it is in some parts of this country alone?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to seek a supplementary request in relation to the same Statement. Could the Minister, please, clarify what they will do in relation to places that are far like Remba Island, Ringiti Island, Tawawiri/Mfangano Island where our people are not able to get their IDs because there are no facilities? There are no boats and the officials there like chiefs do
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to have further requests on Dr. Khalwale Statement; to ask whether the Minister is aware that, for instance, in Bura Constituency, many registration centres are opening for the first day today and that the whole of yesterday is lost. Many centres are again receiving the kits today which means that they might be beginning to work on the registration process as from tomorrow. If that happened in the whole country, is the IEBC in a position to compensate for the lost days and for the registration centres which are sharing the BVR kits, whether because they will only be having either 14 or 15 days or even 12 days of registration, are there mechanisms to ensure that they also go for the full length of 30 days so that people from those centers are not disenfranchised? Lastly, if there is any breakdown or malfunction of any of the kits, are there extra BVR kits in store for the IEBC to make the necessary replacements?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a further clarification in respect of women of Islamic faith who are also required to cover their heads. Could the Minister clarify in the same vein as he has for the nuns, whether they will be required to strip off their headgear because a number of them have been turned away?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to request an additional supplementary point. We now have universities and a number of them will be closing after the registration. I do not know what the Minister is going to do to make sure that those students who are above 18 years get an opportunity to register as voters.
has talked about women of Islamic faith. My wife was denied registration yesterday in Vihiga because of wearing a headgear.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also want some supplementary answers on whether the Minister is aware that some declaration forms are being issued to some members who have gone to register in my constituency and others are denied. Is this the practice? Is he aware that passwords for those computers have already expired even before the machines are put into use and when will they be put into use so that the staff using those machines can start registering my constituents? Lastly, is the 30-day period announced by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) founded on any fact or law?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is to make a follow up of the Ministerial Statement that I had sought pertaining to the diaspora voters. Since the Minister is here, he can give the undertaking as to when he will issue the Statement demonstrating the centres where the diaspora Kenyans will be able to vote.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is the issue of waiting cards and also the Chairman of IEBC announced that the programme is in such a way that the voter need not go to a place where he or she needs to vote. They can register wherever they are and this could save Kenyans costs. But out there in the country, clerks are telling Kenyans that you have to register where you are going to vote. Could you clarify that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs to clarify the following: There are those areas under security operation like the Samburu, Turkana and Garissa counties and even Eastleigh,
Minister, just take notes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is to seek a further clarification from the Minister on what action he is going to take on the confusion that has come up in Rarieda Constituency due to registration centres being taken from locations outside the wards. What action is he going to take against the former Constituency Election Coordinator in Rarieda, a Mr. Orwa, who unilaterally and against the law decided without consultation to create polling centres where it is impractical to do so? He has also moved polling centres outside the wards, in particular my own polling station which has been moved from West Asembo to East Asembo and Masala Polling Centre which has been moved from North Uyoma to West Uyoma.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while the Minister will be issuing his Ministerial Statement on the registration of voters, could he also clarify under which law the members of the Akorino sect are being denied registration in this country? By yesterday, I was in the constituency and all the members of the Akorino sect were turned away because they could not remove their turbans. It is very worrying and creating a lot of tension.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to ask for a further clarification regarding what is happening in Migori. In Migori, we have 56 polling stations and the number of kits we have are 37. It appears they will have to share and, therefore, there are some polling stations which will be sharing one kit. We need the Minister to clarify to the people of Migori and elsewhere that these people are going to draw up a programme where when they start from one centre, then the following day they should go to the other centre so that people can know that they have not been left out.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want the Minister to clarify to this House whether Kenyans in diaspora are actually going to vote and why they chose to have different dates for registration as opposed to the date in Kenya.
Minister, you may now indicate when the Ministerial Statement would come.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I appreciate that I am a Minister but this is a matter of voters and I plead with you that you allow me on behalf of my voters to air to the Minister what is very important because many of them are being disfranchised by the exercise. Would you let me ask the Minister to include whatever I have in the Ministerial Statement that he is going to make?
Order! Mr. Musila, I quite understand your difficulty. I can imagine the extent of your tribulations but as long as you are a Member of the Cabinet, you will not request for clarification from a Minister who is your colleague but you could do so through a proxy. So, you are right. Proceed, Minister!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, because of the urgency of the matter raised by hon. Members, may I issue this Ministerial Statement on Thursday afternoon. Due to a number of questions and certain new aspects that have arisen that even as a House, we did not
Fair enough! Thursday at 2.30 p.m. Mr. Musila, you may work through proxy like I have directed. MATARAJIO YA MAVUNO YA MAHINDI 2012
Bw. Spika ningependa kuitisha taarifa kutoka kwa Wizara ya Kilimo. Katika Taarifa yake, ningependa Waziri aeleze mambo yafuatayo:- (i) Serikali inatarajia kiasi gani cha mahindi kuvunwa mwaka huu? (ii) Serikali imetenga pesa ngapi katika makadirio ya Bajeti mwaka huu kwa ununuzi wa mahindi kupitia halimashauri ya nafaka ya taifa? (iii) Serikali itanunua kwa pesa ngapi gunia moja ya kilo tisini ya mahindi kupitia kwa halimashauri ya nafaka ya taifa. (iv) Je, Waziri ana habari kwamba kuna mvua ya El Nino ambayo imeongeza unyevu na baridi kwa mahindi? Ni hatua gani Serikali imeweka kupunguzia wakulima hasara kwa hali hii mbaya ya anga wakati huu wa mavuno?
Mr. Assistant Minister, when will this Statement come?
On Tuesday, next week, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Member for Mosop, do you want to supplement what the Member for Cherangany has asked?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to supplement by asking the Assistant Minister whether he is aware that the maize bought by the Ministry of State for Special Programme two years ago is still in some National Cereals and Produce Board depots especially Mosoriot, Kipkaren and Uasin Gishu? What has he done to ensure that the maize is removed so that farmers’ maize can be kept by those depots?
Mr. Assistant Minister, when you come on Tuesday, please, include that concern in the Statement. Come with all the information.
Yes, indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I sought a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs. The Statement was to be delivered today. I came late and I request for the indulgence of the Chair to ask the Minister to state the position of the Ministerial Statement.
The Member for Kangundo, I have heard you. However, I am afraid that as at the point where we are, we cannot go back to deliver your Statement because we passed that phase. The best we can do is to get the Minister to indicate when he can deliver that Statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can deliver it next Tuesday.
Next Tuesday? I thought you were ready to deliver it this afternoon.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there were some developments because of the Statute Law Miscellaneous (Amendment) Bill. That was one of the amendments we were considering. So, I will be able to issue a good Statement by next week.
So, there have been some changes that you want to accommodate in the Statement?
That is correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
The Member for Kangundo, I think that is understandable.
I oblige, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Very well. So, we will have that Statement on Tuesday next week at 2.30 p.m. Hon. Members, before we move on to the next Order, I wish to communicate as follows.
Order, hon. Members! With respect to Order No.10 which is the Sports Bill, Bill No.43 of the year 2012, the prevailing position is that the Minister in charge of Youth Affairs and Sports was in the process of moving this Bill when time ran out. Therefore, debate was interrupted and he has to complete moving the Bill. Under those circumstances, because the Minister is away on official business out of the country, I am obligated to defer Order No.10 until the week beginning 28th November, 2012 when the Minister is expected to be back in the country.
So, we will take the next Order. THE TRUTH, JUSTICE AND RECONCILIATION (AMENDMENT) BILL
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation (Amendment) Bill, Bill No.56 of 2012 be now read a Second Time. This Bill basically seeks for an amendment to the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) Act to allow for an extension of the term of the current Commission to enable them conclude their work. We appreciate that this House has been very generous in granting an earlier extension after the term of the TJRC lapsed the first time. We were granted an extension of six months. We also appreciate the further three months extension granted to this Commission by the House. However, as it is, the Commission is yet to complete its work. We know that Members and, indeed, Kenyans have been quite unhappy with the period taken by this Commission to conclude its work. However, I wish to plead with the House that because of the amount of work that has gone into this Commission and the resources that Kenyans have invested in it, it is very important that we allow them more time to conclude this Report. However unhappy we may be with the Chairman and his Commission, I beseech Members not to throw out the baby with the bath water, because really it will be a waste of all the resources that have been put in so far.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it will be a denial of the rights of many Kenyans, many of whom lined up for many days to give their statements and testimonies to this Commission. This Commission has set a record for having received the highest number of statements and testimonies in the world. So far, this Commission has gathered from various parts of this country over 42,000 statements. They have held many sittings in different parts of the country and their mandate was so huge that they could not
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Commission started with a lot of problems. Hon. Members are aware that there were issues with the chairing of the Commission and a lot of time was wasted in the process. Therefore, this is probably one of the reasons why this Commission has been unable to finish its work on time. Having said that, the Commission has strived to try and recover the lost time and they have, as we already know, through the progress report that they submitted, collected a lot of information in order to complete their report. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is no doubt that the Kenyans are eagerly waiting for this report. It would be a waste of huge public resources if this Commission was not given a chance to complete its work and submit its report. The Bill seeks to extend the period of submission of the report for a further period of nine months with effect from 4th August, this year. This means already two months are already gone and we are asking that from now on another seven months and then the report will be ready. I think this is a reasonable request. I want to appeal to my colleagues to extend this period one last time. By doing so, we will be meeting the expectations of Kenyans by giving them the report that they are so eagerly waiting; meeting the expectations of victims who want justice to be done. Therefore, I beg to support and request hon. Members to do the right thing and that is to pass the Bill and extend the term of this Commission. I beg to second.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this extension. I want to agree with the Minister that this report and process is very important for this country. I have always believed since the post-election violence that a process that seeks to investigate the truth is the only one that shall heal this country. Even though we said we go that route after the elections last time, we were opposed. I want to say here today that
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Bill. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the intention of the Bill is to extend the period within which the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) should have concluded its report. It would have been quite fair to all of us if the Commission had done its responsibilities within the time given. We know the challenges that the Commission was confronted with at the beginning, but most of us were in great anticipation to conclude the report, table it and go to the elections. For some of us who had truly invested emotionally and believed in the TJRC’s outcome, we find that it is a betrayal of sort that this report will now be discussed at a time when, as the Chief Whip has said, perhaps, when we are more sober. It would have been more useful for us now, so that during the campaigns, no institution of Government or any personality in Government ever again misbehaves using State resources. This is because most of what we are dealing with in the TJRC are atrocities committed by the Government against its citizens who expected respect, trust and support from those Government institutions. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was on this Floor and with your support and that of other Members of Parliament, we managed to repeal the Indemnity Bill. That Bill was used to destroy the hopes and aspirations of generations of Kenyans who live in six counties. In its own wisdom, Parliament decided that, that Bill was unconstitutional, but the President refused to assent to it. Up to now, that Bill is in limbo. We expected that by now the TJRC to have concluded its report and told us exactly what happened in the counties of Lamu, Wajir, Garissa, Mandera, Marsabit and Moyale between 1963 and 1967. This is because the Bill said that the Commission should tell us what happened from Independence. It is with great pain that those of us who expected the truth to come out--- Today, an extension is being sought and because we are really in need of this report, we will support this extension. But, Mr. Minister, let the truth come out. We want to know who was responsible and why thousands of Kenyans died in Wagalla in Wajir County. We want to know why in 1966 very many young Kenyans were killed in Garissa Primary School and Malkamari in Mandera and in a mosque in Isiolo. An Imam was killed right in a mosque when he was leading a prayer session in Isiolo in 1967/1968. These are the things that we wanted the Commission to tell us. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, on top of that, those counties that we are speaking about have lagged behind in development because we have been criminalized. Today, when a crime is committed in northern Kenya, the whole community suffers for it. It has happened in Samburu and it is happening now in Garissa. It is unfortunate that our military officers got killed in Garissa. It is not something that we support at all. We condemn that incident, but we condemn more when ordinary civilians; children and women live in absolute fear in Garissa today because the military has unleashed their weapons on ordinary citizens who have got nothing do to with the crime committed. The
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to oppose the extension of the term of this particular Commission for the reason that the TJRC was not an afterthought. It is one of the Commissions that were established after the considered opinions of a team that represented all of us during the Serena Talks. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, if we allow this Commission’s tenure to be extended, we run the risk of it meeting the same fate as did the Ndung’u Commission which looked into the land injustices in this country. The same risk that befell the Kiliku Commission on Tribal Clashes will befall this one. The same fate befell the Commission by Justice Cockar that looked into the sale of the Grand Regency Hotel. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with all due respect, the Members of this House have a lot of emphasis on the issue of the post-election violence, but I know that an even greater injustice was visited on the people of Kenya through the unjustifiable acquisition of wealth. We have people in this country, high and mighty, who brag every day, and almost block our ears with their helicopters, yet they got the money, the wealth they have accumulated, from public resources. That opened up a big gap between the haves and have-nots; this has resulted in an elite club of multi-billionaires, who today can buy anything. I beg my brother, hon. Midiwo, to bear with me, as this includes impunity. What justification is there if 48 members of the disciplined forces, our officers, husbands, fathers, people on whom hundreds of people depend, can perish and then that gives us, politicians, an opportunity to ask them “ mta do?” You do not even honour summons to go and say what you know on record at the CID Headquarters. You do not even bother to respect yourself by standing by the truth you uttered with your own very mouth. I do not want to anticipate debate, but the least thing I can say is that I am expecting the President and the Prime Minister to fly the national flag half mast, so that Kenyans can know that even when small policemen are murdered, they are as important to the nation as when one big politician dies for whom we fly it at half mast. The least we can say is that the Minister who uttered these words has lost confidence of his Government and he should resign if only we can allow those people to wipe their tears. The intention of the TJRC report was to try and have a situation where it would inform the forthcoming elections. Indeed, if the elections of 2013 were held at a time when Kenyans have read this report, then they would know that this is a standard that
On a point of information, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. The Member has posed a question as to why an interim report cannot be given, but the law does not allow that. The report must be presented to the President and no one can have access to it, not even the Minister until it is presented to the President. This is just a point of information.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I appreciate that. But because we are the law makers, we can still amend it, so that all Kenyans can know that because they have allowed me the privilege of sitting in this House for many years, I am not a special creature of God. They can know that we are also sensitive to what concerns them. I can assure you that when this House shall vote to extend the time, it is going to pass. But if you subject the vote to the court of public opinion, namely the public in the streets of Nairobi and in the township of Malinya, they will vote to say that they want to know who did what, why he did it and how they can get it back from him because it was not his. If somebody is enjoying wealth of Kenyans and lives a privileged life of affluence and influence at the expense of the poor of Ikolomani and Gem, why would the people of Gem and the people of Eldoret East want to wait even for one minute, so that that thief can continue living a life of influence and affluence at their expense? We want to know now and then we shall go back to Kenyans and ask them, “Would you like us to forgive them?” The Kenyans will make a decision. We can ask them, “Would you like us to take back that which did not belong to them?” Kenyans will make a decision. I do not want to oppose for the sake of opposition. I oppose on behalf of these Kenyans because we want to know. But after knowing, we also do not want to behave like mercenaries. In fact, in my view - allow me to say this - probably it is through this report of the TJRC that we will have said that the ICC process at The Hague is not necessary because we have a local solution in form of the TJRC. But because the international community, which is trying to partner with us in having a State called Kenya, is seeing us not doing too much, then they wonder whether they can trust the big people to help the small ones. Imagine a situation where the TJRC was to come up with a report which is contrary to the findings that were the reason why some members of the Republic are today facing cases at The Hague! People would realize that probably the process of finding out what took place, which necessitated the process at The Hague, was hurried and was not as thorough as what is being done by the TJRC. Then we would be putting Kenya together. I say these things with conviction, knowing that one day, the common of this country will be used for all the people of Kenya and not for the politicians of this country. I beg to oppose.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have always supported a truth and reconciliation process in whatever manner it takes, but I have always been opposed to the TJRC process as initiated in Kenya. The simple reason why I oppose the TJRC process is because of its mandate. If you look at the Act, the preamble anticipates that the reason we are going to have a TJRC process in Kenya is to deal with the post-election issues. The term that was given to the TJRC was longer than that for dealing with the post-election violence. That is one of the reasons why I am opposed to the TJRC process in Kenya. The second reason is because of the person who is the Chair of the TJRC. In my opinion, that person is going to be a witness instead of being on the Chair. Allow me to say that I have been privileged in the past couple of weeks to be in the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee. We had a chance to engage in truth and reconciliation exigencies with this particular Commission. The Commission raised several issues with the Committee and one of the things, for which I do not fault the Commission itself, is in terms of legislation. The legislation, for no reason at all, anchors the extension of any term of the TJRC to six months, which I think was not thought through properly. Secondly, the mandate of the TJRC then needed to have been worked through with the various commissioners and not narrowed down. In fact, the reason why the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs is asking for extension is simply because he thinks that the mandate of the TJRC is broad and, therefore, it needs an extension of time. For those reasons, if it were for me to decide, I would oppose the extension for those very reasons, so that we narrow down the term of the TJRC, and so that its term and mandate fit within what was in the preamble of the Act. Having said all those things, and having said that I participated in a Committee which listened to the TJRC issues, I think that releasing the TJRC report at this particular moment would not be in the best interests of this country. If you look at the Act, it anticipated that the Commission was supposed to finish its work within two years of its incorporation. It is long after those two years and I think the reason why someone had anticipated two years was so that we can give Kenyans a chance to reconcile, which is actually the objective of that particular Commission. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is not going to be possible if at all we release the report particularly right now. We have less than two months to an election and I really think that the content of that report - which I had the privilege to look through - might not be very good to release right now. I really think that if at all there was no reason to extend this particular term, I think one of the reasons would just be to extend it for purposes of not releasing the report now before the elections. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the second reason why I would really like to vouch for an extension of the Commission’s term is because of the reason that there are several people who have been adversely mentioned in that particular report. I think the rules of natural justice require that someone else be given a chance to be heard and also present their case. I think the state in which the report is in right now, if at all it is released without giving the people a chance to iron out the issues, I think it would be contrary to the rules of natural justice.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when the TJRC was formed, many Kenyans were pleased. We thought we would go the way of South Africa. We were very bitterly disappointed. The TJRC became a mockery, a joke and a battle ground for selfish gain. It wasted nearly one year arguing over whether the Chairman should step down or not. The Vice-Chairlady actually stepped down. The Chairman did not have the confidence of his own Commission and yet, the lords of impunity allowed him to stay there. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have known the Chairman all my life. I pleaded with him to do a respectable thing and step down, but he did not. It appears that TJRC is a property of a few people and it is being used to oppress Kenyans. I believe that there are so many things that we need answers for - like the shifta menace and problems
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think the speaker on the Floor is going outside of what we are discussing. The speaker on the Floor is now discussing the character of the Chairman of the Commission without giving him a chance to defend himself. He has also said that the TJRC is being run by the lords of impunity. My friend, Tom Ojienda, who is a first-class lawyer in this country, is in that Commission. It is important that we understand the role of Parliament. We should not use the Floor of this House to malign the good characters of many Kenyans who offer themselves for public service. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance.
Very well, hon. Midiwo. Hon. Shakeel, could you make your request?
Order, hon. Shakeel! If you really want to proceed to make your contribution to this particular Motion, please confine your contribution to the Bill before the House.
Okay. However, it is a clarification, but I will take your guidance.
And hon. Midiwo is right?
Yes, I will take your guidance. However, I want to make a clarification.
Order! Hon. Shakeel, you need to proceed with your contribution to this particular Bill.
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I never said lots of people. I said lords of impunity. I had no intention of maligning any member of the TJRC and I want to repeat that I have great faith in the TJRC, except for one.
Order! Hon. Shakeel, hon. Midiwo has brought an important issue here pertaining to the character of the commissioners and then you keep on saying “except one”. That is what we want to move away from. Could you withdraw the words “except one”?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I shall withdraw.
Thank you. Proceed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that justice delayed is justice denied. Justice has been delayed. You can quote the South African case, the one in Rwanda or the other one and say that for the same reason, we should extend the term of the TJRC. I think it is actually taking this a bit too far. However, bearing in mind that we have no choice; and bearing in mind that the results of the TJRC report should have been there to inform the public and the leaders on the way we should have done things and the way the forthcoming elections should be run, it is late. You are saying “better late than never” and I agree with you. However, be sure that it is not too late to save a patient. We do not want our patient to die. So, I urge you to establish who or what circumstances caused the delay. If those circumstances can be blamed on any group of people or commissioners, they must be warned. They should even be denied their remuneration for work not done. That is the way forward. This kind of job is given on contract basis. The contract is for a period of time. However, that period can be extended once or twice during the lifetime of that Commission. Mr. Einstein once said it is height of insanity to expect different results by doing the same thing over and over again. So, we are allowing an extension of this time to this Commission, but we expect them to do things differently so that they get different results. I would have declined to support this Motion, but I understand their position and the position that we are in. I still urge that those individuals who cause the delay should not be paid their salaries. With those few remarks, I very reluctantly support this Motion and urge that one person’s salary be stopped.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this chance to support this Motion. We have established so many commissions as a country. When the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) Bill came to this House, we passed it. It was the real hope for all Kenyans. It is important for all of us to note that we, as a House, agreed that the TJRC will go back to Independence or pre-Independence and address all the injustices committed to people of this country for a better Kenya. It is important for this House again to remember that we approved all the names of commissioners who were brought to us. Our expectation, as a House and country, is that the Commission will be bringing a report based on the evidence given to them by Kenyans. It is not the Chairman or members of the Commission who will prepare a report based on their own opinions. We expect this Commission to give us nothing, but the truth. It is important that Kenyans know where the source of the challenges that we are facing today, as a country, are. I want to agree with Dr. Khalwale that we want this report to cover everything. We expect this Commission to do a thorough job because Kenyans have high expectations from them. They expect nothing, but the truth. We want justice for all Kenyans. I want to indicate here that for those of us who come from regions which are cosmopolitan, we are expecting this report to be the solution to the many challenges that
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In lieu of the fact that hon. Members are either supporting this Motion half-heartedly or reservedly, but supporting all the same, would I be in order to ask that the Mover be called upon to reply?
Will the Mover be called upon to reply?
Mr. Minister, proceed and give your response.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a few minutes to respond. I wish to donate two minutes to my very good friend, Eng. Gumbo. I wish also to donate one minute to Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank my good friend and able Minister, Mr. Wamalwa. In principle, I rise to support.
Could you protect me? There is a lot of loud consultations.
You are protected; please, make your remarks.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister and all those who have contributed. While in principle I have been disappointed with the performance of this Commission, it is important the reasons advanced for extension look valid and we should allow it. But one of my concerns is the way injustice continually becomes recyclable in Kenya. We have injustices regarding allocation of resources; injustices regarding promotion considerations in regional balances and injustices concerning land in this country. I think it is important that this Commission goes to the root cause of these injustices. One of the problems that have rolled back the promise of this great nation still remains ethnicity. I think this Commission, in its report, must find ways for permanently dealing with the problem of ethnicity, so that we can usher in an era of societal conviviality in Kenya as a whole. I believe in this country. I believe this country has great promise. I believe if we, as Kenyans, could regard ourselves as one nation, one people and genuinely mean it as so; the progress for this country will be tremendous. This problem has been with us for far too long. Kenyans who deserve cannot move forward
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have six minutes and I want to donate one to Mrs. Odhiambo-Mabona, Mr. George Nyamweya and Mr. Letimalo.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is one of the commissions that have not generated the greatest confidence in itself. From what the hon. Members have said, you can see that this Commission needs more time than what is indicated. If you look at the injustices that it will be dealing with, including issues of gender, issues of insecurity in Marigat, Baringo and other areas like we are seeing now, they are from historical injustices. My suggestion is that I will push an amendment that they be given an extension but only to give a report because they cannot do all they need to do in nine months. They cannot perform miracles.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would have wished to speak on this subject a little more carefully but unfortunately, I am at the mercy of a donation of the Minister. I might even have been persuaded to support the request for extension of nine months but I am a Member of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee and I think we might be getting ourselves into a lot of trouble. The Commission has already embarked on report writing. They told us themselves. They said that they needed a month or two to conclude their report. Indeed, I am going to tell my colleagues that we should only extend for purposes of concluding report writing. Nine months is completely unnecessary. I just wanted to go on record that the reason of election should not be used not to have this report published and it is the worst possible reason that any country can offer itself. If we were seeking truth, justice and, therefore, reconciliation to say that we are afraid of releasing a report on truth and justice because we are facing an election, it means we really do not want the truth. Until we have the truth, we cannot go to an election where we know how it is. If we committed these atrocities, we should not hide by pushing forward the release of the report so that I can get elected then the truth comes out when I am in power so that I can suppress it. Therefore, I would not go for an extension because of an impending election. It is purely for purposes of having that report concluded. I would wish that we propose that we only give them two months to conclude the report and amend it so that even if they do not conclude the report, it can be released in whichever form it is so that they cannot use the inability to conclude to hold the country hostage. I support to that limited extent.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are convinced that there was need to constitute a committee to investigate atrocities and other historical injustices committed against Kenyans. My concern and my appeal to the Minister is, given the fact that some of us have written to the Commission citing incidents that have taken place in our constituency like Samburu East, up to now, the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) has not visited the place. In 1963/1964 over 20 people were killed indiscriminately by security officers. You can imagine the humiliation vested on
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just have two minutes to say thank you to hon. Members for the support to this Bill. I want to tell them a story I learnt from-- -
Order, Mr. Minister! Prof. Kamar, do you want to say something on this particular Motion? I am seeing a request here.
Sorry, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It was on an earlier issue, but when you rolled out the Motion, I just want to say that I support.
Alright! Proceed, Minister.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was moved to hear from a judge from South Africa who is also serving on our Vetting of Judges and Magistrates Board about his experience in South Africa and how he almost lost his life in the struggle against Apartheid in South Africa. When the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was underway in South Africa, the man who almost killed him actually came to him and told him that he was going to appear before the Commission and he hoped to be forgiven. Justice Abhishek told him to go before the Commission and give his story for the record and he did. When he came back to see him, the man was in tears and he asked for his forgiveness and he forgave him. That experience was therapeutic to him both as a victim and the fellow who actually attacked him. So, the process of reconciliation and getting the truth is very important for this nation. It is very important for the healing of our nation. We have waited for over 45 years, that is, since 1963. So, we can wait a few more months for us to get to know the truth and for the children of Kenya to get to know what happened in future. These answers will give true meaning to the Biblical verse which says: “The truth shall set us free” as a nation through this report. We urge Commissioners to do their best in the extended period and discharge their mandate by covering areas that they had not covered like Samburu. We know that they were still covering some areas at the Coast Province. Therefore, with the extended period they can be able to do that and complete their report. If you come up with issues of reparation and give those adversely mentioned enough notice for them to clear their names and offer amnesty to those who will apply for it, it will be good. With those few remarks, I thank hon. Members once more and wish the Commission well in completion of their work and presentation of their report within the extended period. I beg to move.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Vetting of Judges and Magistrates (Amendment) Bill be now read a Second Time. In moving this Bill, I want to tell hon. Members that this is a very short Bill that seeks to bring some amendments to a few sections of the Act that we had already passed in this House. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill has brought changes some of which have offered practical challenges to the Board in execution of its duties. It has also raised the issues that touch on possible conflict of interest where we have, in the process of amending, also taken part of the mandate of the Board to the Judicial Service Commission (JSC). This is where we have magistrates who are sitting, representatives of magistrates and judges. In bringing these amendments, the most fundamental one that we are making is to ensure that we take back the powers we had taken from the Board through the amendments carried in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Bill so that we remove the JSC from the task of overseeing the vetting of judges and magistrates. We have already seen a conflict between the Board and the Judiciary. The framers of our Constitution, in their wisdom had foreseen this. As a nation, we had already tried to carry out the radical surgery previously which did not succeed. The Judiciary was one of the institutions that were in the eye of the storm during the post election violence because the Kenyan public had completely lost confidence in this institution. Part of what we are trying to achieve through the new Constitution is to ensure that we restore public confidence in the Judiciary by creating a mechanism for the vetting of all those judges and magistrates who were still serving at the time this Constitution came into force. This is why we created this Board that is independent and has the input of experts, for example, international experts like Justice Albie Sachs and the Chief Justice from West Africa. Through these amendments, we are saying; let the Vetting Board be given the full mandate to carry out the vetting. Through this amendment, we want to amend Section 23 of the principal Act by repealing Sub-section 2. In Sub- section 3, we are proposing the deletion of the words “the Judicial Service Commission” so that we remove the JSC from the vetting process and take it back to the Board. The Board has also, in the process of execution of its duties, had various vacancies arising from its composition and part of the objects for this amendment is to ensure that any vacancies that might arise in the Board will not in any way invalidate their work. Owing to the reason of the vacancy, that cannot be taken as a defect in the execution of their work. So, these practical challenges will keep arising and we want to cushion the Board from these challenges as they arise. Through these amendments, under Section 23(1) of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution, the Bill is also providing for the vetting of the Board through a procedure that could be left to the Board to determine from time to time in order to speed up the process. This is the main reason we have this amendment. The other amendments are to
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to second this Bill. This Bill is doing what it must do, which is to remove the conflict of interest in the Vetting Board, particularly in the presence of the JSC. It also aims at cushioning the Vetting Board because it enables the Board to stand on its own and do its work as required without any fear of being questioned. With that, I support this Bill.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not sure that the reasons that the Ministers are advancing or advocating are that convincing. What was the intention of the Judges and Magistrates Vetting Board? Was it not supposed to be a transitory exercise, moving us from the old order to the new order? When we propose to remove whatever we want to remove and give it to the JSC, which ultimately should have the powers to vet and employ, why do we think that we should continue with this exercise as if it will be a long-term Board? Would it not have been better maybe to give them a similar thing like an extension to conclude the work that they have embarked on rather than making it a permanent mandate for a board which should cease as soon as it has finished its exercise? Secondly, this subject is a bit deeper than it is because we are looking at one arm of the Government only, which is the Judiciary. The others – we hear the arguments that we, in the Legislature, will go through the vetting and, therefore, Chapter Six will be decided by the people. The Executive appointments will be approved by the Legislature. That may make some sense. However, you must also be able to read the true intention of what the Constitution provides in terms of dealing with judges and magistrates when we want them to be removed from office. Does it not give them the right to have a tribunal so that they face whatever allegations they are subjected to?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. Let me also take this early opportunity to welcome back Members to the House for this final leg. I believe we shall do what is best for our country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in supporting this Bill, I want to assure my colleague, hon. George Nyamweya, that, indeed, his fears are probable not founded. The issues he feared are exactly what has been addressed by this Bill. When you look it, it is small, simple but very fundamental. In the first instance, there is an issue of panels that have to work. But what happens to the entire Board if one or two members are absent? Is it open to challenge? I am just clarifying for avoidance of doubt that no action will be invalid just because the
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. I think what the Minister is trying to do is a good thing. It is important that this Board should continue with its work, so that it does it in a balanced manner. When we introduced the amendment and brought in the JSC, we brought in another factor. It is
Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Yangu ni kuunga mkono marekebisho ya sheria hii. Kulitokea makosa kwetu sisi kuchukua majukumu ya bodi ya kukagua majaji na mahakimu na kugawanya majukumu ili mahakimu waweze kukaguliwa na tume ya mahakama ambayo ilikuwa na shughuli na kazi tofauti ambazo ziliwekwa kisheria kwenye Katiba kwa mujibu wa Katiba yetu ya Kenya. Jambo hili limetatiza sana hasa Wakenya ambao walitaka kazi hii iendelee vilivyo na ilivyopaswa ili majaji na mahakimu waweze kuendelea na kazi zao bila wasiwasi. Kwa hivyo, bodi hii ni haki kabisa irudishiwe majukumu yake iweze kufanya kazi hii na vile vile Waziri ambaye anasimamia maswala ya haki hapa nchini aweze kuhakikisha ya kwamba wanaharakisha kazi ijapokuwa wameweza kuwekewa vikwazo, waweze kutekeleza kazi hii. Bodi hii ya ukaguzi ni ya kipekee ulimwengu mzima. Tumepata sifa sana kwa kazi nzuri ambayo wanafanya na vile vile kuwawezesha kufanya kazi bila hali ya wasiwasi. Ninaunga mkono marekebisho haya yaweze kutekelezwa mara moja. Asante sana.
Since there is no other interest, the Minister may respond.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the hon. Members for their contributions and their support for this Bill. We believe that this Bill once passed will go a long way in streamlining the operations of the Board and in accordance with the Constitution which anticipated that we will have one body that will have a clear mechanism of vetting both the judges and the magistrates, not having one body dealing with the judges and a different body dealing with the magistrates. It will also remove any other operational challenges the Board is undergoing currently. With those few remarks, I beg to move and thank hon. Members for supporting it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Universities Bill, Bill No. 53 of 2012 be read a Second Time. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the demand for university education in Kenya is enormous. This has resulted in a rapid growth in university enrolment over the last ten years. The Kenya Vision 2030 also places an urgent demand for specific skills and research outputs for the country’s human resource requirements. This ever growing demand and rapid expansion of the university sector has posed several challenges which include access, equity, quality, relevance, financing and governance of university education. Patterns of access to both public and private universities tend to reflect increasing regional gender and socio-economic differences in the country. You will recall that according to the Welfare Monitoring Survey, way back in 1997, it was found that two- thirds of the university students enrolled came from the richest and the second-richest families while only 7.5 per cent representation was from the very poor. This situation is further reflected in gender imbalance in university education as well as access to university education by Kenyans, particularly those with special needs and the marginalized and minorities. Since the year 1997, things have progressed positively but not in the steps that we would have imagined over that long period. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, quality in education is determined by the quality of the students admitted, the learning environment created, the curriculum adopted and the quality of the academic staff in the institution. There have been a number of challenges in addressing these core tenets necessary for ensuring quality. There are also emerging concerns on the need to promote life-long skills and employability of graduates as well as incorporation of the needs of industry and national development priorities in university education. Moreover, the Commission for Higher Education as is established currently has been limited to assuring quality of university education only in the private universities. The current average spending by students at the university level is 31 times, six times and twice as expensive as primary, secondary and tertiary education respectively. This indicates that university education through public universities is particularly expensive to the Government and is not sustainable with the current resource base and has to some extent also influenced the quality of university education. As a result, there are several negative unintended consequences such as the establishment of satellite campuses that do not necessarily have quality learning environment and the focus on courses that can generate high tuition revenue for the institution themselves. This means that some of the strategic degree programmes that the country requires have not been receiving adequate attention. A majority of university teaching staff have also been diverted to go into the teaching arena and thus the quality of research has been reducing.
Time is up, hon. Minister! Who is seconding? Sorry, Minister, I am told that our time keeping is not accurate. The Minister has one hour. So, I give her the reminder of her time.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I knew that there must be an error but, I am about to conclude. There is a departure in the appointment of the chancellor, which I wanted hon. Members to note. With the alumni of the university, we shall rank the applicants from the names deemed by the senate to be most suitable for ranking as a chancellor. What that means is that the position of chancellor will be advertised for the first time in the history of this country. After the ranking, the senate shall forward the names of the top three applicants respectively ranked by the alumni to the Cabinet Secretary for onward transmission to the President, who shall pick one of the
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to second this very important Bill and to congratulate my colleague, friend and neighbour, Prof. Kamar, for presenting before this House a very good Bill. It is very well researched. This Bill will enable this nation to take yet another stride on the road to realization of Vision 2030 of transforming Kenya into a knowledge-based economy. Once we pass this Bill, we will only have one piece of legislation dealing with all our universities. I remember when I was at the University of Nairobi (UoN) we used to visit other universities. We had friends all over. They used to wonder why the UoN was the only university referred to as “The University of Nairobi”.
Makerere University bwana !
That is in Kenya! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Others were known by other names, but that was a long time. We now have quite a number of universities. The most ridiculous part of
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill and thank the Minister for bringing it at this point. Indeed, I am glad that the Minister promised that she will bring the Bill before Parliament is dissolved because we had raised certain issues and concerns regarding it. Therefore, I want to congratulate the Minister. Nonetheless, I want to say that some of the issues that the Minister promised; indeed, for me the major concerns are not addressed here. I want to indicate that in the past, whenever you travelled all over the world one of the remarkable things about Kenya was that our students stood out with distinction compared to students from other countries. However, right now, we do not compare favourably. Even a statement and a Question that the Minister answered indicated even though she was disputing the criterion that was used to assess our students and our universities--- Indeed, one of the things that was very clear is that we are fairing very badly without exception.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As much as my good friend is--- Is it really in order for her to single out Keroka, when, indeed, the sensitivity of education is clear; that particular county or those two counties have been subjected to that sort of thing, which affects their performance? I would want her to urge the PCEA University to be given a charter immediately. But everywhere you go in the country you will find these Universities commercial or otherwise---
Order, hon. George Nyamweya! You stood on a point of order and not for a contribution.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, the hon. Member is lucky that I can actually single out Keroka because it actually has one, even if a bad one. Where I come from, I cannot single out because there is none even a bad one. In Mbita Constituency, there is absolutely none. So, I cannot even give it as an example. So, I am saying Keroka has at least something, even though a bad one. So, I want Keroka to have a very good one and I want Mbita to have equally good one. Not a bad one. I do not want Mbita to have a bad one. I want it to have a very good one, the same way I want Keroka to have a good one because if Keroka gets a good one, at least, if Mbita does not have, we can pass, Keroka is very close. They are our brothers. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to look at the preliminary part. I want to encourage the Minister, when we talk about constituent college, you have not provided the standards of a constituent college. My house cannot be a constituent college of a university, Madam Minister. As much as you want to improve education, there is money because you are charging our students exorbitantly and we can set standards. Again for distance learning, there are no standards. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also want to challenge the Minister, some of which I have raised with her. As much as we have set standards on equity and equality especially by gender, in reality that does not apply. I would want us to provide a way of putting that in this law. I will give you an example, I have a very hardworking
Order, Members! Hon. Odhiambo-Mabona, you will proceed next time. You have got ten more minutes to continue. Hon. Members, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House, the House stands adjourned until, tomorrow morning, Wednesday, 21st November, 2012, at 9.00 a.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.