On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. It is strictly not a statement. I can see the House is quiet. I had informed you that I would raise a matter of national importance regarding the Constitution. There is a ruling that was made in this House previously that if a matter is touching on or is likely to interfere with the implementation of the Constitution, that matter can be raised at any time before it goes very far. I rise in line with your previous ruling that when a matter is about to be transacted by this House and it touches on the Constitution a Member can rise and raise it. Article 1(3) of our Constitution is explicit that the sovereign power under this Constitution is delegated to State organs and this Parliament is such a state organ. Article 94(4) says: “Parliament shall protect this Constitution and promote the democratic governance of the Republic.” Further, Article 2(1) binds all persons and all State organs to the Constitution which is the supreme law of the Republic.

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On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. I do not want to cut short my very good friend. However, the hon. Member is discussing a matter that is before a Committee of this House and that report will be brought to this House. At that stage, hon. Ng’ongo will have the opportunity to raise the issues of constitutionality. The hon. Member is anticipating debate. We cannot allow hon. Ng’ongo, just for the sake of it, to run this House with impunity. The matter is before a Committee of this House and that Committee is an extension of this House. It will bring its final report to the House within a certain constitutional deadline which will be on Tuesday, 14th. That will be next week. Hon. Ng’ongo should not anticipate the report of that Committee, unless he has no confidence in the membership from the CORD Coalition in that Committee--- Hon. Speaker, Sir, you must rule that hon. Ng’ongo is out of order.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, although hon. Duale is talking about---

The Leader of the Majority Party is right. Communication came to the Chair and the Chair referred the matter of that Communication to a Committee of this House. That Committee has not brought a report to this House. It is, therefore, premature to anticipate debate because nobody knows what that Committee is going to do regarding those nominees. It is fair that Members of the plenary await the report from that Committee so that the issues hon. Mbadi would now want to canvass prematurely are then discussed when the report is tabled here in the House. Otherwise discussing it at this point would amount to, indeed, trying to participate in discussions in that Committee and in a way trying to influence what the Members of that Committee are likely to decide. I, therefore, rule that hon. Mbadi is out of order. Proceed!

On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir.

Not on that one!

Hon. Speaker, Sir, I really respect your ruling and I will go by it. However, I just wanted to mention for record purposes that when you talk of a matter being before the Committee that is an issue which is in our Standing Orders. However, the Constitution is supreme. The Chair---

Hon. Mbadi, you are now trying to contradict what the Chair has ruled on. Since the Committee is going to make a report, you will have ample opportunity to canvass it here and try as much as possible to persuade as many Members as possible

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Who was on the Floor? Hon. Jonathan Lati you have nine minutes left.

I want to thank you, hon. Speaker for remembering my name. This is because I forgot to say my name when I stood here. I was very excited to speak and so I forgot to announce my name. So for the record, I am hon. Lati Lelelit from Samburu West. I have been listening to Members from both sides of the House arguing on who should serve in which committee. We are here to represent the people who elected us. It would be very unfair for us to be branded that we can only to be here to represent the interests of Jubilee or CORD. I would like to assure my friends on the other side of the Floor that they are safe with some of us. If some of us appear in those committees and something is genuinely Kenyan and affects the people of Kenya, then you can count on us. We will vote based on the needs of our people. We are not here just to represent the party. I want to support this Bill because of a few things that I have seen that I think are good. I will make my reservations based on what I have seen. I think this Bill has done good to cut down on the administrative cost of running counties. That is a good idea because more money will now be relocated to development issues within the counties. When you look at this Bill and that was reflected in the Jubilee manifesto, the Constitution gives us a minimum of 15 per cent when it comes to county allocations. If you look at what the Treasury has allocated, it is about 25 per cent and a conditional grant of about seven per cent. That takes us to about 32 per cent. I think that is a good way to start. We should applaud Jubilee even if they have not reached the 40 per cent that they promised during the campaign. Sometimes you say a lot of things during the campaigns, but sometimes you must be forgiven because you also need to be practical with regard to what is available in our national budget. So, I think 32 per cent is not badly off. I have a few reservations about this Bill. First of all, I see a lot of disconnect between what the Treasury is saying and what the county revenue allocation is reflecting. In fact, that is a betrayal in the statements. You will realize that the Treasury is mentioning that they have consulted with the line Ministries and the Transition Authority. Some figures were not available from the CRA. I believe that the CRA is somewhere in

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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I am hon. Waititu from Juja Constituency. I had asked for that. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion. I come from Kiambu County and I have seen what the Kiambu County is supposed to achieve but because of shortage of funds--- If we give the counties more money to run on their own, we will have helped them. As you know, a county is large. A Governor with no money will make people feel that the Government is not trying to help them at the grassroots. The Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology has been assembling computers. If we get more money, we could give it to that university because they are ready to manufacture laptops. The money devolved is not a blanket fund. It is money that will translate into development. Members of Parliament together with county representatives and Governors will have to get involved to determine where the money can be used to help the county. Our counties need to be uplifted. Hon. Speaker, Sir, when I visited the hospitals in my county, I found out that there are so many things that are not right. The hospitals there have no drugs for the patients. If we, as Members of Parliament, sit down with the governors the hospitals there can be funded with that money and people can get drugs. Hon. Speaker, Sir, with regard to education, when the money goes to the county, it is not for the governor. It is Government money. We can get involved so that we can check the education standards of our children in the county. There are more schools in the counties. I can see something good happening when money is allocated to the counties. We will all be involved so that we can uplift our country. Many things will happen when money is given to the counties and there are good governors. This is the first time we are having the administration of counties by governors in this country. They also need assistance from us as hon. Members and the Government. That way, the counties will be

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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Let me join my colleagues in supporting the Bill. My name is John Munuve Mati, Member of Parliament for Mwingi North. I would like to make a few observations. In the morning, I heard a few sentiments from hon. Members. Some counties are not able to generate resources. I would urge my colleagues to desist from that kind of attitude because why we voted for the Constitution was basically to make sure that the resources are decentralized from Nairobi to the rural areas. It is not just resources but also power. I come from a constituency that does not have even one inch of tarmacked road. It is a constituency that has at most 0.5 per cent access to clean water and sanitary facilities. Speaking on the Floor of this House 50 years after Independence, I feel constrained. I would like to argue that my constituency, which falls within Kitui County, should have been accorded some additional resources through the Equalization Fund. This House has heard about the problems and the fame of Kitui County. It is the only place within the Republic of Kenya where people have eaten dogs because of famine. Kitui County is lucky because it borders the two biggest rivers in the Republic, Athi and Tana rivers. Hon. Speaker, Sir, if Kitui County was irrigated, this Republic would not run short of any food for a long time. I had an opportunity to go to Wikithuki Irrigation Scheme; a scheme that was started and has only 100 acres. It has a capacity to take care of 5,000 acres because it runs along Tana River, which does not dry up at all. I can see we have Kshs5 billion for emergencies. I would like to argue that some of that money should be given to my constituents. It will do a very good job and avert an emergency in Tana River. People in Tana River are forced to use boats. Their property is being destroyed simply because Tana River has more water that can actually be stored. If some of that money was used to construct a dam in Tana River, it can irrigate my constituency. First, it will avert the disaster in Tana River and, secondly, farming activities will take place and the area will be food sufficient. As I support this Bill, the other problem that I would like to point out in my constituency is armed conflicts. There is money that has been given to the security forces. This time round, our security forces should help us to do away with armed conflicts. Basically, there are thugs who come to steal livestock from my people. We have talked about small arms in this Republic for a long time. We do not know why the police and the armed forces have failed to mop up small arms in this Republic. There is proliferation of small arms in this country. My people continue to suffer in the hands of armed people. They are really tempted to look for black markets where those small arms are obtained, so that they can protect themselves and their property. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to talk about the investments that are going to the counties. I think there is a mechanism by this House to monitor what the governors are doing in the counties. We should not glorify the governors as saints who have come to save people. Those governors are human beings and, as it is, there are conflicts that are brewing between the governors and central Government as represented in the county

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Let us hear from hon. Nyokabi

Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I also want to support this Bill but even as I support it, I want to lament the use of language. There is an introduction of a concept around “making the counties harmless” that is attracting Kshs17 billion. I would urge that this House seeks to understand what that means and any failure to understand some of the concepts in this Bill, we should not pass laws that we do not understand. A lot of sharing has been done well but there is that introduction of “harmless”. Somebody had lamented earlier about the definitions. There is very little in terms of explanation of the concept used in this Bill. A lot of these concepts need to be explained further, especially that particular one. If we do not understand what it means, then the advice would be that we delete it and have the money for any other purposes that we have in the Bill.

It is also important to note that as we pass new laws, the constitutional language has been reduced to such a level that anybody can read the Constitution and understand, including the Devolution Chapter. So, any other laws that this House passes must follow that kind of language, language that we can all understand. I also regret, with many of the Members, the lack of committees. We have a disparity in the figures given by the CRA

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One second, Members, you will recall that I indicated that any Member who has intentions to move amendments to this Bill, you have up to 5.00 p.m. today, so as to facilitate the staff also to prepare the Order Paper for tomorrow. As you may be aware, amendments may be many and quite technical. So, please, anybody who proposes to move amendments to this Bill, try as much as possible now to enable the Clerk to prepare the Order Paper.

Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I wish to also support this Bill, but hopefully, I intend to bring some amendments. I have reservations on what has been mentioned by others, but I want to expand on it. In 1965, through the Sessional Paper No.10, somebody decided that there are areas with potential and defined what that is; if I remember correctly, it was areas with tarmac roads, good rainfall and people who accept development. From that statement that was passed in this august House, the people of the ASAL areas and northern Kenya suffered for over 50 years. In this Bill, somebody is introducing something called “harmless” and basically the explanation given is that you do not have the capacity. These others have this capacity and have been having it and so, your money will be chopped off, they will continue having it and you will not have it. The Commission on Revenue Allocation is the constitutionally mandated Commission that recommends what budget each of the Government institutions should get. For the executive, which is the National Treasury, to decide and introduce other columns into the way the revenue should be divided, namely, introducing referral, provincial and Level 5 hospitals, is not in the formula for dividing revenue. Also introducing leather money is not in the formula. With those three things alone, they remove Kshs31 billion which was to be shared by the counties. The other thing that this Bill seems to do is to hold the tradition where the Treasury decides what goes to the counties. This will kill devolution. We need to amend those issues. The Bill also says that those people who try to challenge the different levels, because there is inter-government dispute resolution mechanism and go to court and the court finds that they should go back to the mechanism, that individual governor or county

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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. My name is Abdul Rahim Dawood, the Member for Imenti North. I want to support this Motion, but with a caution as well. We need to check all the money which goes to the county governors. We have to be very careful on how the governors will use the money. They may get the money and think that they are on top of the world. They need to consult the members of the county assembly and not just inform them. They may be using that money where it is not needed, for example, doing big projects which are not viable. We need to have a defining line in terms of where the Member of Parliament gets involved in the county functions if at all, he or she will. A lot of functions of the county governments will be in the constituencies and that is the more reason why the governors should consult Members of Parliament. Otherwise, I believe that this year the paper says 30 per cent but we should be increasing every year the money that goes to county governments up to about 50 per cent, like what was said earlier in the morning. However, there should be a rider that the Member of Parliament should be involved in many of the projects which will not be duplicated with the CDF and it should be in tandem with the aspirations of the constituencies.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion. We must realize as Parliament that the 47 counties we have in this country should not merely be looked at as administrative units but as economic units. It is the first time that we are now looking at what formula is being used to allocate resources so that our counties can take off. It is also clear that looking at the two institutions that have come up with this resource allocation system, both the Treasury and the Commission on Revenue Allocation have used two different formulas but I think they were both based on assumptions because it is just the other day that we saw the operationalization of the county governments. We have governors coming up with the budgets and reading those budget estimates. So, what is coming out clearly is that reality is now dawning on us that indeed the cost of running county governments may be so much higher than what the Treasury had estimated. Therefore, I tend to look at the formula which the CRA used and

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Asante sana, Mhe. Spika. Na mimi pia nasimama kuunga mkono wenzangu na kukubaliana kuwa kuna umuhumu wa sisi kijadiliana kuhusu sheria hii ambayo tunaenda kupitisha ya ugawaji wa pesa kulingana na Katiba ambayo ilipitishwa 2010. Katiba hii imetupatia nafasi ya kuwa na serikali za ugatuzi na vile vile serikali ya juu. Bila shaka Wakenya sasa hivi watakuwa na hali ya wasiwasi na hali ya kuhangaika mpaka tuzoee kuwa kuna serikali za aina mbili; serikali ya kitaifa na serikali ya ugatizi ambayo iko mashinani. Kitu ambacho kinanifurahisha zaidi ni kuwa pia katika maeneo yale ambayo yamebaki nyuma, yaliyo duni kimaendeleo, kuna pesa ambazo ni za kusawazisha hazina ambayo imewekwa ya kuweza kusawazisha maeneo yale kimaendeleo ili tuweze kukimbizana na maeneo yale ambayo yako mbele kimaendeleo. Kwa sasa hivi, pesa ambazo watu walikuwa wamezitarajia, ni nyingi lakini yote hayo ni kwa sababu hakuna mtu anayefikiria kuwa hesabu itakayotumika itakuwa ya mwaka gani. Tuko mwaka wa 2012/2013 na zile pesa zinazotumika ni zile zilikuwa zimetafutwa Serikalini mwaka wa 2011/2012. Wote wanaangalia kuona vile tutaanza shughuli hizi. Ninakubaliana na wenzangu kwamba tukianza shughuli hizi za kuhakikisha kwamba ugawaji wa pesa unatekelezwa sawa sawa kutakuwa na migongano na malalamishi kati ya tume ambayo inasimamia ugavi wa pesa, Serikali ya Kitaifa na serikali za ugatuzi.

Tume hii ambayo inashughulikia masuala hayo lazima itagongana kidogo na Wizara ya Fedha kwa sababu hawajafanya kazi pamoja. Hii ndio sababu kipengele cha 199 cha Katiba kinasema watu wajadiliane na wazungumze ili wasikosane. Kulitalajiwa kwamba wakati wa kuanzisha masuala haya ni lazima kutakuwa na hali ya wasiwasi.

Mheshimiwa Spika, kazi na majukumu ya Serikali ya Kitaifa yamewekwa katika Fourth Schedule ya Katiba. Pia, kazi na majukumu ya serikali za ugatuzi yameonyeshwa. Inafaa magavana waelewe majukumu yao na yale ya Serikali ya Kitaifa.

Haya ni maswala mapya ambayo yameanza wakati huu. Kwa hivyo, ningependa kuomba Wabunge wa Bunge la Kumi na Moja tukae pamoja, tujadiliane na tuwaruhusu wananchi watuelezee mambo ambayo wanataka tuyatekeleze katika Bunge hili.

Jambo la kusikitisha sana ni kwamba katika serikali ya ugatizu kuna bunge la kauti. Hili bunge linaweza kupatiwa makadirio yao ili kila atakayeangalia ajue kwamba bunge lile lina uhuru na haki ya kufanya shughuli zake bila kusumbuliwa na wale wanaosimamia serikali ya ugatuzi.

Sisi ambao tuko katika upande wa Serikali tungependelea kufanya kazi na wenzetu ambao wako katika upande mwingine. Sisi wote ni Wabunge. Wale walio wengi na wale walio wachache ni wanachama wa Bunge hili la Kumi na Moja. Kuna umuhimu wa sisi kufanya kazi pamoja. Tumechelewa sasa hivi kwa sababu Kamati ambayo ingeangalia masuala haya bado haijaundwa. Ningependa kuwaomba wenzangu tuungane ili tuangalie masuala haya yanayohusu shughuli hizi ambazo zitawezesha si tu Serikali ya Kitaifa bali serikali za ugatuzi kutekeleza majukumu yao bila shida yoyote. Mwanzo huwa mgumu lakini watu wakifanya kazi pamoja inakuwa rahisi. Hii ni kwa sababu hili ni jambo geni. Ni hivi majuzi magavana, Wabunge na wawakilishi wa kauti walichaguliwa kwa mara ya kwanza katika nchi yetu. Hili si jambo la kawaida.

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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I am Gideon Ochanda. I am the Member for Bondo. I want to support the Bill. I also want to indicate that there are a number of things we need to look at as we move towards amending this Bill before it becomes law.

As a country, there is one or two things we have not taken care of properly. We went into allocating resources before allocating functions. I think this is one thing that we really need to look at. The whole of last year or immediately we got the new Constitution, we came up with the Commission on Allocation of Revenue before coming up with a formula or clearly indicating exactly where the functions will lie. Now we are in a stage where functions are many and the resources are few or little.

If at all our commitment to devolution is to be realised, the resources must be sent to the counties. However, as we talk about more resources going to the counties, we are also burdened with the idea that the National Government also has functions to perform. If you critically look at the functions that we are devolving, you will realise that the Government departments as currently constituted are 40 in a district. Out of the 40 departments, there are six constituencies or districts in a county. That gives a big volume of personnel that will move to the counties. Therefore, this means that there is a huge implication that the personnel will have on the resources that we want to send to the counties. I am trying to say that the Bill fell short of indicating to us that out of the Kshs154 billion that we are talking about, what portion is for Recurrent Expenditure and what portion is for Development Expenditure? If we do not do that, chances are that the entire amount of money that we are allocating the counties will basically go to Recurrent Expenditure and we will end up with very little or almost nothing for purposes of development. If that were to be the case, we will have the counties servicing wages rather than providing services. I think this is clear. This is more so when we have not properly allocated functions. There is no hold on functions. However, with close scrutiny, you will realise that there are many functions that are still held.

If you look at the Estimates, you will find that the regional authorities’ functions are not devolved and yet the Bill indicates to us that the functions that were performed by those authorities are not extended to the counties. So, that is one area we are not very sure when it will be done. The Bill is indicating to us that a big percentage of functions that were for purposes of counties will be transferred by 1st July. Regional authorities will still duplicate their functions and if you look at this critically, you will find that what they do is close to what the counties will be doing. In that case, we will either do a double allocation or deny counties funds that need to have gone to them by still retaining what we call “regional authorities”.

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My name is Jude Njomo. I am the Member for the new Kiambu Constituency which has been carved out of Kiambaa Constituency. Hon. Speaker, Sir, how I have longed to say those words! The people of Kiambu have also longed to hear those words. They have not been represented by very vocal Members. They have wished that they hear their Member of Parliament speak in Parliament. This being my maiden speech, I would like to thank God and the people of Kiambu for finding me worthy to represent them in this august House. At the same time, I would like to congratulate you and your Deputy and all the Members of this House for being elected to be here. Kiambu is an area that is suitable for accommodation and it is very welcoming. I know we have many Members of Parliament from far and wide. I want to welcome them

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Insecurity!

Security is now improved. Before I support this Bill, I would like to mention one or two things now that this is my maiden speech. When the name “Kiambu” is mentioned, many people think of one of the richest counties in the country. On the contrary, many people in Kiambu live in abject poverty. There are many people in Kiambu who use jerry cans and mitungi to fetch water. People in Ting’ang’a, Kagongo, Ngaita, Ngegu and so on are suffering from serious lack of water. I have the heavy task of ensuring that these areas are provided with water either through CDF or any other means available. We come from a district with very well educated people yet our public primary schools perform dismally. The reason is that a lot of academies have come up in the neighbourhood and many of the bright children in the public schools easily find their way into the academies. The public schools are thus left with a few students. Those students are also enticed by manual work in the neighbouring farms and the city. We have a heavy task of ensuring that we eradicate child labor and also improve the standards of education.

On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir.

The hon. Member is on maiden speech. I thought you were in the House when we said so. Please, resume your seat.

Thank you for your protection, hon. Speaker, Sir. Poor education is a sign of desperation in our people. Most of the youth are yet to get employment. Those who are left behind feel desperate and they do not want to continue with education. We are also suffering from poor road network. The state of roads, for example, Ting’ang’a-Mbo-i-Kamiti Road and the Ndumberi-Githunguri Road are in a deplorable state and need serious repair.

With regard to the Bill, I support it. Devolution cannot take place unless we give money to the devolved governments. When we do that, we shall be putting to shame the prophets of doom who thought that the Jubilee Government is not willing to devolve power and resources. The Jubilee Government has done better than that. It has proposed to give more than the 15 per cent threshold required by the Constitution. If we do this, our county governments will run their affairs. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we need to ensure that we have checks and balances in our counties so that this money is not misappropriated or misused. When the President was here, he emphasized on prudent management of public resources. I think we should make sure that this money is spent properly. I know you are aware that the people of Kiambu decided that they want to have their county headquarters based in Kiambu Town.

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It cannot happen!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would urge the Government to retain the established structures of Government including the sub- chiefs, chiefs and the County Commissioners to ensure that the CORD Government is able to implement its manifesto and to offer services to the wananchi effectively.

It is the Jubilee Government not CORD!

Sorry, it is Jubilee Government not CORD, hon. Deputy Speaker! To make sure that the Jubilee Government’s manifesto is well implemented.

With those remarks, I beg to support the Motion.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker for the opportunity to contribute. This is not my first time but for record purposes, I am a Member of Parliament for Teso South.

I would like to comment in support of the Bill. One, for obvious reasons, the object and purpose of this Bill is to divide the revenue between the National and County governments. I want to believe that the drafters of this Bill took into consideration a number of factors one amongst them being the functions of the National Government vis-a-vis the county governments. That takes me to my second observation. Hon. Members will agree with me that it is the first time that we are devolving resources. This is new and it is more of an experimental venture and my appeal is that let us approve the Bill and the figures as provided. Let us exercise our oversight role to see how the county governments are going to appropriate and utilize these resources effectively and efficiently. By the end of the financial year, I am sure we are going to see a very big variation in the figures that will be presented to this House. We will be able to build weaknesses and also our strengths and improve on these figures.

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Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. I am supporting this Bill in principle because the time that was available for some of us to look at it was not enough. The time was not enough for us to scrutinize it a bit more thoroughly and even involve our constituents. There was no time to even involve Kenyans who have expertise in this area. Hon. Deputy Speaker, as it is normally said, the devil is in the details. However, I have said that I support it in principle because looking at the reasons and objects of the Bill; it is addressing one of the very fundamental aspects of our Constitution, namely devolution. Even in his address to this House, His Excellency the President did mention devolution as one of the pillars which he was going to base his development on to move this country forward. So, this particular Bill is in support of realization of that particular objective of devolution. Hon. Deputy Speaker, my encouragement in this Bill also arises from what I have observed; the role that Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has played in development, particularly in rural areas and other hitherto rather neglected areas. If we can base our model on what I have seen, the role that I have observed CDF play, then I think devolution is the way to go in development of this country. I would like to agree with some of the hon. Members here who said that this devolution should actually be carried all the way to the grassroots. We should not just devolve up to county level, and then county headquarters become another central area. It should be able to devolve right up to the ward, through the constituency right up to the ward.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I hinted that if we had a bit more time, we would have looked at this Bill in more depth. I also learnt that if this Bill had come through the Committees, then there would have been deeper scrutiny. It is unfortunate and regrettable that we have not succeeded in forming these Committees. I want to reflect on what one of the Members pointed out, that it is not a complicated matter. In fact, our House Leaders can sit down, have a cup of tea or coffee and resolve the issue. I want to appeal that you use your skill and charm to get these gentlemen and their deputies to sit down for a cup of tea. You can invite them even in your office and keep them there until they shake hands and come here with a solution on the issue of Committees. It is embarrassing that something that, perhaps, on the surface, does not look complicated, can deny the

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On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I wish to seek your direction in respect of an issue that crops up from the provisions of Article 205 of the Constitution, which provides that:-

“(1). When a Bill that includes provisions dealing with the sharing of revenue, or any financial matter concerning county governments is published, the Commission on Revenue Allocation shall consider those provisions and may make recommendations to the National Assembly and the Senate.

(2) Any recommendations made by the Commission shall be tabled in Parliament, and each House shall consider the recommendations before voting on the Bill”.

We are likely to conclude debate on this Bill tomorrow. I am, therefore, seeking directions that the House be informed if the Commission has, one, been informed of this Bill and two, whether it has made any recommendations in respect of this Bill and given them to the National Assembly and the Senate and, three, whether the recommendations can be represented or tabled before this House so that we can deal with them.

The reason I am raising this issue is that looking at the Bill before us, the Treasury is making submissions explaining why it does not necessarily follow the recommendations of CRA. It is, therefore, necessary that we make sure that this law is complied with by both the CRA and the National Assembly. I need directions.

Thank you. Yes, it is true that those are the provisions of the Constitution. Unfortunately, up to this point, the National Assembly has not received any communication or any recommendations from CRA. We are going with what we have received as the National Assembly up to this point. If after today or before the conclusion of the Bill tomorrow when we go the Committee of the whole House, we will have received anything, then we can look at it. We can only deal with what is before us and what has been tabled in the House. So, in the same spirit as to what the Speaker said this morning, in the spirit of moving forward and ensuring that we do our duty as a National Assembly, we will proceed and hope that they are the ones that are required to bring us those recommendations and that we will play our part in the National Assembly.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to make a maiden speech in this Eleventh Parliament. The Division of Revenue Bill is the first one after---

Hon. Langat, you are an old Member, yours cannot be a maiden speech.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I said in the Eleventh Parliament.

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So, it is not a maiden speech; but it is a speech nonetheless.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. This is the first Division of Revenue Bill that we are considering as a House after we have gone fully into devolution. Therefore, this is a very historic Bill which will give our county governments an opportunity to implement their programmes.

The Jubilee Coalition promised to give 40 per cent of the revenue to county governments. I congratulate the Coalition because they have provided 32 per cent and this is the first allocation. Many county governments are yet to set up their structures. Therefore, the 32 per cent will be helpful, so that they can set up the structures in order to serve the people of Kenya. Devolution is a very important concept. I was among the people who were opposed to the new Constitution, but devolution is a very important provision. My mathematics works out to an average of almost Kshs6 billion per county. This is money that most of our areas have never seen since Independence. For the first time, many areas in Kenya will attain development that has never been realized before because of this devolution concept. I only hope that those who are in charge of county governments will do their job and put in place proper structures. We will not accept a situation where money is sent to a county and the structures are not there, so that we remain with a job in future of investigating where the money went to.

Therefore, I encourage the governors, the county executives and the county assemblies to ensure that before they undertake any function, they put in place structures to make sure that the funds that have been given are utilized in the right manner. Kenyans expect a lot of development. The roads are impassable and in areas where we come from, there is no water. Therefore, the counties assemblies must move with speed to ensure that the structures are in place, so that the money is sent to them.

Somebody has mentioned about members of the county assemblies. This is an area which needs to be looked into. We cannot give Kshs9 billion and the people who are supposed to take care of that money are not properly taken care of. Somebody is saying that they are taking care of the wage bill. You can take care of the wage bill, but in the end, you lose ten times what you are trying to save. Therefore, we must protect the county assemblies. I have seen a write up from your county where somebody was asking whether members of the county assemblies are members of the Parliamentary Service Commission or with another employer. Therefore, we need to protect the county assemblies and the county executive committees so that they can provide the services that they are supposed to provide. Many Kenyans now expect development. Where we come from, the roads are very bad and there is no water. Therefore, they must move with speed to ensure that structures are put in place so that the money can be disbursed to the County governments.

Looking at this Bill, we are spending almost Kshs120 billion on interest payments. If the National Government could reduce the loans it takes, that money could be taken back to the counties. I agree that the Government needs money for development but Kshs120 billion is on the higher side. It is even affecting the performance of the economy. Therefore, I urge the Government to address the issue of public debt with a view to reducing the cost of financing our development programmes. We are going to

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Yes, the Majority Party Whip!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Bill, which is very simple since it only explains what goes to the National Government and to the county governments. The details that my colleagues have been talking about are in the Revenue Allocation Bill, which is yet to come to this House. Just to emphasise what my colleagues have said before, it is important to note the importance of counties in the new constitutional dispensation. It is true that the Constitution created 47 counties with specific mandates and responsibilities. I believe that counties were created because of three main issues:- First, the Central Government, in previous regimes, had perfected the art of being out of touch with the needs of the citizens in the country. The national policies then failed to tackle problems affecting the local people. Therefore, counties are supposed to facilitate decentralisation of certain functions and operations of the Central Government and empowering of Kenyans at the grassroots level to determine their development priorities. That is what my colleague, hon. Benjamin Lang’at, was talking about – that we may decentralise from the national- level to the county-level and then have centralisation at the county level, which may lead to marginalisation of some areas within the county. That is why oversight is required even at the county-level. Secondly, counties are supposed to promote social and economic development in all parts of the country by making services easily accessible to wananchi throughout Kenya. Thirdly, the devolved units are supposed to guarantee equity amongst all Kenyans by protecting and promoting the interests of minority and marginalised groups. Those are groups who have historically, by omission or commission, been marginalised since Independence. That is why we must take a keen interest on what amount of revenue goes to the counties, through this Bill, to enable them perform these functions properly. The success or failure of the counties largely depends on the resources that will be availed to them for provision of services to wananchi . Hon. Deputy Speaker, Clause 231(b) requires that in sharing resources, we must ensure that counties are able to perform the functions allocated to them. The counties cannot perform without being given adequate resources. Therefore, through this Bill, resources are being apportioned between the National Government and the county governments. It is, therefore, important that this House facilitates the process of establishing the counties on the right foundation in this year of their inception. I want to

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Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. This being my maiden speech, my name is hon. Lemanken Aramat, Member for Narok East. I want to contribute to the debate on the Bill before the House. Before I do that, it is my first time to stand before this House and I want to thank the people of Narok East for electing me to this House.

As much as we support devolution, I want to encourage that Bills be brought to this House early enough, so that we have ample time to look at them and verify them properly. As much as the Jubilee Government has tried to give 32 per cent of its Estimates to the counties, there are some areas that are key to our constituencies, particularly my constituency, especially in terms of road network within Narok East Constituency. The road to Nairregia Enkare has been earmarked for repair for many years, but it has never been done. The Mosiro Road and the Eorr Ekule road network need to be looked at. This is a priority to us as the people of Narok East Constituency rather than having laptops as a priority. If you look at the rural set up, the people are in dire need of infrastructure. If you look at our needs as a community, we need roads and proper schools rather than the free laptops. In the rural set up, a Standard VI pupil cannot read or write properly. This means that even those laptops will not assist our people.

In Mosiro, our people are very insecure. The district security team seems outnumbered by the criminals and you wonder whether our priorities are set properly. Security should first be enforced and then we can talk about laptops as a secondary and not a primary objective to some areas. As much as we talk about salary increment, as one Member has said, the salaries for the members of county assemblies also need to be looked into. Those people have a huge task to serve the people at that level. I want to encourage the Senate to enact legislation to make sure that we are not devolving corruption to the county level. We need checks and balances. The funds that have been devolved to the county level should be checked, so that corruption will be devolved to the county where it will thrive because we have imperial governors.

In my constituency, we have a problem with Kedong Ranch where a major resource, namely, Ol Karia, is being drilled by KenGen. We generate a lot of geothermal power. There are some cases in court. The company is trying to displace people without due respect to the court processes and without respect to the other arms of the Government. That should be stopped. I support devolution because for many years, as other Members have said, some people have never seen development. If you go to Mosiro or some areas within my constituency, you will meet people who have never seen the importance of going to school. They have never had the privilege of enjoying the free primary education. I wonder whether that is free primary education or what we should call it. With devolution, we want to empower our people, so that instead of people driving animals from Suswa, Mosiro or Nturere all the way to Ngong, they will have slaughter houses across Narok East. When cases have been taken to court, companies go straight on to displace people without due respect to court orders. They do not respect the other arms of Government. Such behavior should be stopped.

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Ahsante sana Naibu Spika wa Muda. Naunga mkono huu Mswada japo kwa shingo upande. Tunazungumzia majimbo kuendelea. Majimbo ni mtoto tuliyemzaa hivi karibuni. Ukimlea mtoto vyema, atakuwa na afya nzuri. Kwa hivyo, ni muhimu na lazima serikali za majimbo zipate mgao ambao unastahili kuendesha miradi. Upande mmoja wa Jimbo la Kwale lina ukame. Upande huo mwingine unaweza kujimudu kidogo. Hakuna maji ya kutosha. Hakuna barabara. Tuna barabara moja tu inayosimamiwa na Serikali; nayo ni barabara ya Kinango-Kwale. Mama anapopatikana na uchungu ndiposa umfikishe hospitalini Kinango, sharti utumie wheelbarrow kilomita zaidi ya 40. Ikiwa hatutapata pesa za kutosha, basi hizo barabara hazitapatikana. Maji yanatoka kwetu lakini hatuwezi kuyanywa. Maji hayo yanapelekwa Mombasa. Gavana asipokuwa na pesa za kutosha, yale maji hatutayanywa. Hilo limechangia maradhi tofauti tofauti yanayotoakana na maji machafu. Imeibuka kuwa sisi tunakunywa maji pamoja na wanyama. Wakati huu wa mvua, hata yale machache ambayo yalikuwa safi huchafuka. Gavana asipokuwa na pesa za kutosha, tutajimudu vipi kimaisha? Viwanda vya Kwale vingi vilifungwa kwa sababu ya ufisadi. Gavana anahitajika kufufua hivyo viwanda na pia kuanzisha viwanda vingine vidogo vidogo. Bila pesa, hataweza kufanya hayo. Hii imechangia ukosefu wa kazi na ndiyo maana hata hali ya usalama hatuna kwetu. Hii bajeti ambayo tunaizungumzia kwa sasa ina uonevu mkubwa sana. Sisi watu wa Pwani tulilia majimbo na tukayapata. Lakini kama hatutapata pesa ambazo zilikadiriwa na Bunge la Kumi, ni kumaanisha tuko katika hali ya kuua majimbo. Magavana lazima wapewe pesa za kutosha; siyo hizi zilizotajwa hapa. Serikali za majimbo haziangalii tu mambo ya barabara. Tunahitaji mambo mengi kujimudu kimaisha hasa sisi akina mama. Sisi hatuna vyeti vya ardhi. Hatuna raslimali zozote zile. Tunahitaji pesa ili tuweze kuanzisha biashara ndogo ndogo. Lazima

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Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. When I looked at the preparations for the allocations to the commissions, I realized that those allocations have gone high. At the end of the day, what CRA has recommended is not being implemented. So, I wonder whether we are paying them just to do the job, but we are unable to implement. CRA came up with some formulas and apparently when a question was raised in this House as to whether CRA has presented its estimates for discussion, it was noted that it has not. This makes us ask whether they really deserve to be paid for a job that they have not done. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the other issue that I looked at is the issue of devolution. In this Division of Revenue Bill, we are talking about devolving funds to the county level. But in the morning, hon. Angwenyi was trying to say something which he was not able to finish. He said that we might be devolving power from the President to the governor and from the governor, it does not devolve down to mwananchi . We want the governors to be held accountable to the citizens of this country and, more so, to the citizens within their counties so that whatever they want to do, they should be able to be held accountable by having devolution that is able to reach to the people. In this devolution, you will find that the money that is actually being discussed, part of it is on recurrent expenditure. Then we wonder how much we are giving in terms of development. If we are going to send money to the counties just to pay employees working there, then we are not going to make roads, deliver services in the hospitals and all that. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this afternoon, hon. Njomo talked about 24 governors implementing a manifesto of one of the competing coalitions in the last elections. When you look at the way this Bill has been formulated, it is in line with the Jubilee Manifesto, which is the governing coalition now. We hope that in counties that we have governors who are coming from the minority party - that is the CORD Coalition - it will not be in order for them to implement a manifesto that is not in line with the governing coalition.

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Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I stand to support this Bill and specially underline the importance that the President outlined in his Speech with relation to education and, especially, focusing on retention of children in schools in rural Kenya. It is important that we see the need for teachers in schools. This Bill does not quite indicate that. It looks like we are going to remain in the same situation where schools are suffocating because of lack of teachers. It is very important that this Bill

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Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to the debate on this important Bill. From the onset, this is a historic Bill because devolution---

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I wish to seek your indulgence as to whether the Member is supposed to contribute twice while some of us have not even made our maiden speeches?

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Who has contributed twice?

The Member on the Floor.

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh: Let me consult the Clerk and see whether he has contributed before. He has not contributed. Go on, Eng. Mahamud!

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, maybe, we have different caps. I am sorry. This is a historic Bill because it is the first Bill which will operationalize our devolved governments. Devolution is the key element of our current Constitution. This is the first time we are going to operationalize the county governments and we should get it right. For that reason, it is important for us to understand how this Bill is structured and what funding we are going to give to our county governments.

Article 216 of the Constitution gives CRA the mandate to advise and give recommendations on issues relating to how revenues are going to be shared. It is unfortunate that this Bill did not benefit from that advice because of the current situation in the House where we do not have Committees. The Bill has not benefited from the input of the public, the Treasury and also CRA. It is, therefore, incumbent upon this House to make the best out of what is before us, so that we can get proper revenue sharing between the two levels of Government, of course, without the advice and the input from CRA. I also want to thank the Treasury for having tried their best to come up with a Bill that shows the revenues that are going to be allocated to the two levels of Government.

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is an honour to make my maiden speech after a technical contribution in the early day of this Eleventh Parliament. I rise to support this Motion with reservations particularly on the amount of funds that are being allocated, as many Members have said, to the county governments. We cannot shortchange them and set a culture of shortchanging our county governments, if we are serious about devolution right from the start. As someone from Nairobi County which requires a minimum of Kshs17 billion to run per year, when we are talking about averages, it does not make sense because the averages will come to about Kshs6 billion. Where will Nairobi County which needs Kshs17 billion get adequate funds if we do not make a full basket of funding for full devolution for all the counties? So, while I support the Bill, I really want to urge that we make amendments tomorrow that will compel the Government to provide full funding of at least Kshs230 billion to our county governments. Our county governments are independent and separate from the national Government and there is no equivocation there and there should not be any confusion whatsoever. They should be given the full respect they deserve just as we deserve full respect and independence for this House.

As we look at the conditional allocations of Kshs43 billion that has been spoken about numerous times, I would love to reiterate that a breakdown of how this conditional allocations will be spent is very critical. We need an itemization of needs for the different counties that will benefit or, at least, a plan, so that we are not just grappling in the dark granting away a huge sum of money which we do not know will be controlled by who and distributed on what basis. As someone from Nairobi, I want to, once again, point out that there is a need to recognize the special nature of Nairobi as a county that produces 60 per cent of the national GDP of Kenya. So, even as we go into the itemization of this Kshs43 billion of conditional grants to our county governments, we must make sure that Nairobi is a great special county among all the other 47 great counties that we have in our nation, including the home of this great Parliament where we serve today. May we make sure that we do not make mistakes when we talk about Articles 201, 202 and 203 of our

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(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Your time is up!

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I think it is clear that if anybody had any doubt or question on the commitment of the Government of His Excellency Uhuru Kenyatta towards devolution, then all those doubts, if we want to be honest, need to be cleared. It is very obvious that he has exceeded that 15 per cent threshold. This is a simple Bill. It is just telling us about the share between the national Government and the county governments. At the first year when we are rolling out fiscal decentralization and devolution where the President could as well have put aside 15 per cent, he has doubled that by allocating 32 per cent to the counties. I think we must applaud the Jubilee Government for their commitment towards devolution. The tone of the discussion that is going on really shows us that one side of this House is doing a great disservice to us by the absence of a Committee to go through this Bill. This Bill is very important to this country. Kenyans voted overwhelmingly for a new Constitution whose highlight was devolution. This being the first Division of Revenue Bill, really, it ought to have gone through a Committee and through a fine toothcomb before it is brought to the House, but because of grandstanding and because certain Members are used to getting things, we do not have a Committee in place.

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On a point of order hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise on a point of order based on the Constitution and in particular the authority of the functions of commissions like CRA. In Article 216(5) the Constitution reads: “The Commission shall submit its recommendation to the Senate, the National Assembly, the National Executive, County Assembly and County Executives.” Is the hon. Member in order to suggest that by hon. Members pointing out that there are no recommendations by the Commission before the Assembly is not a deficit by the Treasury rather by the Commission? Is he in order to suggest that the default is something that we can gloss over?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think what the hon. Member is alluding to is the issue of Article 206 where once the Division of Revenue Bill is tabled in Parliament--- When the CRA also needs to give their considerations. However, what I was pointing out is the process that is in the Constitution. I think Articles 216, 217, and 218 give the process that must be followed by the CRA and the Treasury such that by the time the Division of Revenue Bill gets to the House, Treasury has already received recommendations by CRA. In the Schedule of this Bill, we are told why they may have deviated. They give reasons. That is as per Article 218(2)(c) which states that there should be a summary of any significant deviation from CRA recommendations with explanation for such deviations. That is what I was explaining. I think that is what I was explaining. The amounts given by the CRA were estimates. The Treasury allocates the percentage that goes to the counties based on the last audited revenue. At the time the CRA was making recommendations they were using audited revenue for a different year. So, this is the most recent audited revenue, and really 32 per cent is much higher than the 15 per cent we were all expecting. When we started proceedings in this House we said that we would not oppose for the sake of opposing and support for the sake of supporting. However, in the first year of devolution going beyond 15 per cent is acceptable, I think the Government must really be applauded. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, devolution is anchored on the principle of subsidiarity. The subsidiarity principle is very simple. It states that if a matter can be handled by a lower level of Government it then should be handled by the lowest level possible. If there is something that the national Government wants to handle but it can be handled by the county Government, the county government should take charge of it. The Fourth Schedule of our Constitution is clear on this. We must, however, insist that the principle of subsidiarity be followed even at the county. We know that the basic unit of devolution is the ward. We must ensure that even at the county level there is public participation for Governors to put in their budgets and conduct public hearings; that is really the essence of devolution. Unless we insist on that we will not get the full benefits of devolution. This is something that the hopes of millions of Kenya are pegged on. With those remarks, I beg to support the Bill.

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Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As I stand to support this Bill, I would like to seek clarification why we refer to the Government as the Jubilee Government. Are we not in the same Government? Through the devolution funds, the Government now seems to be serious with regard to efficient provision of services to people in the counties. The Division of Revenue Bill needs to be looked at keenly. We do not have a Committee in place yet, and not all of us are good in finance. It is unfortunate that we do not have a committee in place, which should have looked at this Bill properly. It is very unfortunate that we do not have a committee in place that should have really looked at this Bill properly. We will, however, try and give it the best. We hope that our opinions will be taken into account, so that we can, at least, have a body that is accountable in future. It has been said that the counties have not been given enough funds. We have seen this in the Bill. As my colleagues have said, we need to ensure that the counties have the right structures in place. We then need to do the monitoring so that by the next financial year we will have learnt our lessons. That way, we will be able to say whether or not these funds were enough. I also appreciate that our police has got some funds. We have been experiencing insecurity in Busia, Bungoma and other parts of the country. This will ensure that security services are better. Police need to be trained well and they also need to be properly equipped to increase effectiveness and rapid response. It is very sad that 30 people, or so, can have the guts to attack a home for one hour without any response from the police. That is very unfortunate. I do not know whether it is the police who are not equipped. I, however, appreciate that the Bill seems to be catering for police services. The Bill has also set aside funds for emergencies. I hope that the relevant authorities will be able in future to act quickly when disaster strikes. Our people have drowned. Our people have been displaced. I hope the emergency fund that has been set aside will be managed by people who will be ready to act quickly to avert such incidents in future. Women economic empowerment is crucial. The same goes for the youth. We are kindly asking for the funds to be released as quickly as possible. We are ready to move and so are the youth. We should stop blaming youth for the criminal activities that take place. It is not the youth who attack people all the time. We should stop giving our youth a bad name. Some of them really want to do something useful. Now that the President has said that he will give us funds, we should move quickly and give them the money, so that they embark on their projects. I beg to support the Bill.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. It is true that the Jubilee Government promised that they would give more resources to the counties. In actual fact they have allocated more than the requisite 15 per cent, that is 32 per cent. It is important for us to ask ourselves some questions: Are the counties ready in terms of human capacity to enable them execute their obligations to mwananchi ? My view is that it is important for the devolved governments to be supported, so that they have the right capacity to do what they must do. We are looking at the situation we are in, where the entire infrastructure is gone. The county governments will have a major responsibility to rehabilitate the infrastructure. I do not think there is a county that can

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Thank hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the chance to contribute to this important Bill. On the outset, I would like to say that this is a historic Bill because devolution---

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to have your indulgence on this. Is an hon. Member supposed to contribute twice when some of us have not even made our maiden speeches?

Who has contributed twice?

The hon. Member on the Floor.

Do you know me?

The two of you cannot engage in an argument! Let me just consult the Clerk and see whether he has contributed before. He has not contributed before. He can continue.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is a historic Bill because it is the first time that we have which will operationalize our devolved government. Devolution is a key element in our Constitution; it is the first time we are going to operationalize county governments. Therefore, we should get it right. For that reason it is important to know how this Bill is structured and understand it as we are going to use it in our devolved county governments. Article 216 of our Constitution gives the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) the mandate to advise and give recommendations on issues relating to how revenues will be shared. It is unfortunate that this Bill did not benefit from that advice because of the manner in which we have actually tried to introduce it before this House;

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Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. First and foremost, it is a pity that because of the differences that we have on the formation of the committees of Parliament, this Bill has come to the House before going through a committee of Parliament. The Committee would have analyzed various issues, come up with recommendations to this House that would have formed the basis of debate. Because of the lack of this committee, we now have a very important Bill before this august House, which is being debated without the input of a committee of Parliament.

Be that as it may, I would like to make a few observations which I consider very important. The first observation is that contrary to what the Bill proposes, conditional allocations should not be part of the county revenue share as per Article 202(2) of the Constitution. In fact, this is so important that I want to read it, for purposes of clarity, to the Members. It reads that:-

“(2) County governments may be given additional allocations from the national Government’s share of the revenue, either conditionally or unconditionally”.

So, you cannot, in the first place, give the counties Kshs198 billion and at the same time, tell them that out of that, they have Kshs43 billion as conditional allocation. That should be separate according to the Constitution. Secondly, when you say that the revenue “shortfall” below the threshold set by the Cabinet Secretary will be shared between the national and the county governments, the term “shortfall”, should be explained. When we were making the Constitution and coming up with a formula, we wanted to ensure that we can predict accurately the revenue to accrue to the counties. But when you subject the revenue to the counties to variation from one point in time to another, a governor may not be sure what to do. He might think that he does not know that maybe he will receive less. As far as we are concerned, the amount is based on measurable figures. One measurable figure is that it is based on the actual audited accounts of the previous year. In this particular case, the amount is based on the 2010/2011 audited accounts. That is where the figure comes from. So, you cannot come up with something which cannot be predicted. The governors in the various counties may not be sure what to do with their plans. We must give them an element of comfort in that they are sure that the amounts going to them can be predicted.

The third point is that we have talked a bit about allocations to hold counties harmless. This particular statement is coined by the Executive arm of the Government that amounts to saying that they want to compensate counties which receive lower resources on application of the approved formula by Parliament. Parliament approved a formula on how to allocate resources, taking into account the fact that in the past we had some counties that were historically aggrieved. They were unjustly catered for in the past. The formula tries to cater for those counties which, in our view, were not catered for well in the past. That is how the formula came about. When you apply that formula, you may find that some counties which were privileged at one time may receive less money than those other counties that were not as favoured. The formula is intended to correct that situation. So, if you apply the formula and find that the counties that were receiving more

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support the Bill with very significant comments. First of all, is the allocations made through the constitutional provisions as outlined in Article 203 of the Constitution. I find it difficult to do the comparisons between the national Treasury and the CRA Estimates. This is because we are treated to a table where the CRA Estimates for 2013/2014 are indicated as not available while the 2012/2013 is available. Even though we are saying the explanatory notes from the CRA have not reached the House, I tend to agree with what the national Treasury has explained; if you look at those figures and you upload 14 per cent of each of the items on the cost, it comes to Kshs231.1 billion. This means that either the CRA was incompetent or it did not have the capability to do its own estimates and give us the cost of the functions. The national Treasury has consulted the line Ministries and the Transitional Authority (TA) in arriving at the cost of the items listed, while the CRA, if you go by what they have indicated as Kshs231.1 billion, merely took their estimates for last financial year, Kshs148 billion, and increased it by 14 per cent to get Kshs168.7 billion as the cost of devolved functions. On that score alone, the national Treasury disagrees with TA and agrees more with the governors that they need more money. So, the national Treasury believes the governors believe more money as cost of devolved functions is required. It says that either the CRA did not do any research, or study, to determine what were the devolved functions and the cost of those devolved functions.

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On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is the hon. Member in order to discuss the matter of the PAC and the PIC yet the matter has been assigned to a team of this House to look into it? We should only discuss it when it comes back. A ruling has already been made on it. Is he in order to continue talking about it now?

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Member for Rangwe, the Chair has ruled on the outcome of those two committees. So, just complete your comments. You were doing very well.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will conclude by saying that I looked at the allocation given to---

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, I now call upon the Leader of the Majority Party to respond. We want to have his response and move to the next Motion.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, first of all, I want to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this Bill since morning. I want to make several clarifications, as we approach the Committee of the House Stage tomorrow. First, I want to urge my colleagues that we represent both the county governments and the national Government. That point must be very clear. The functions of both the national Government and the county governments will benefit our people. Devolution is not a choice. The Jubilee Government, and specifically the President, in his Address to this House, and in many forums, has said that devolution is not a choice. It is in the Constitution for prosperity. Irrespective of which regime implements it, devolution is a choice of the people of Kenya and we have to live with it.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to bring to the attention of hon. Duale the fact that this has actually been happening since Independence. I see the Jubilee Government just as an extension---

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(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was trying to come to the point. I see the Jubilee Government as an extension of the KANU regime. They give promises to---

(Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, let the Leader of the Majority Party continue. That is not a point of order.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, between the Jubilee Government and the KANU government there were several other governments. I would like the hon. Member to know that we want to move forward. As the Member for Rangwe said on the committees, we need to move forward. Some of us do not even want to remember the Grand Coalition Government. The KANU regime is very far away. Coming back to my point, the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) is a creation of this House. It is an independent Commission. The CRA is a neutral arbiter between the national Government and the county governments. The leadership of this House has a role to perform in development, be it through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), the County Governments or the national Government. We must see the difference between the governors, who want more money, and Members of Parliament, who will need more money for the CDF. This same House expects the national Government to develop the various constituencies.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

(Hon. Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Chachu, what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, is the Leader of the Majority Party in order to state that the governors of our counties want more money when the Jubilee Government has devolved functions to the counties without allocation of adequate resources to enable the governors to perform? Is he in order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at Section 201(2) (b) of the Public Financial Management Act and read it together with Section 203, you will---

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Abongotum, who do you want to inform? Is it the Leader of the Majority Party?

(Hon. Ms.) Shebesh): Leader of the Majority Party, do you want information from hon. Abongotum?

No, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to rush through my response, so that we can proceed to the next business. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Sections I have referred to are clear that it is for this House, through its committees, to determine what revenue the county governments will receive. It is this House which determines the percentage of revenue that should go to the CDF---

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(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Abongotum, what is out of order?

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Abongotum, who was out of order? Was it hon. Ganya or the Leader of the Majority Party?

(Hon.(Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Abongotum, the Leader of the Majority Party was on the Floor. Hon. Ganya’s point had been dealt with. So, let the Leader of the Majority Party continue because your point of order is directed to the wrong person, the person who is currently on the Floor.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I said that the CRA is a creation of this House, and that it is up to the Members of this House to make sure that the formula developed by the CRA complies with both the letter and the spirit of the Constitution. Having said so, I want to confirm to the House that what the national Government will bring to this House today and tomorrow will be subjected to the formula developed by the CRA. Secondly, the CRA is a natural arbiter mandated to make sure that resources are provided in order for the national Government and the county governments to function. In this Bill, there are special provisions for some counties, mainly urban counties. For example, service delivery in the County of Kisumu cannot be, in terms of size, the same as service delivery in the County of Marsabit, where hon. Ganya comes from. In terms of service delivery, there is some particular allocation of Kshs14 billion for counties with huge service delivery mandate. These include Nairobi, Mombasa, Kisumu et cetera. We should look at the Bill in the context of the goodwill expressed by the Treasury and the CRA. Likewise, it is because some counties have been marginalised for a long time that the Constitution provides for the Equalisation Fund for about 14 counties. In order for these counties to develop to the level of other counties, the drafters of the Constitution created the Equalisation Fund. Those provisions are in this Bill. Thirdly, there is something hon. Members were discussing this morning. I said that Article 203 of our Constitution sets the parameters and principles of sharing these resources between the national Government and the counties. One of the principles is national interest. That is why you see NIS and the Department of Defence. That is why you see the office of the DPP. That is why you see some allocations for Parliament, Judiciary and the National Police Service. These allocations are as a result of national interest. We need to equip our police force under the police service reform. We must create an extra budget under the line of national interest. We will even provide more funds under the Item for public debt and national obligations. As a country, we have obligations to other financial institutions and other governments. Such obligations must

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On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I fear that there is no quorum. Could you, please, confirm whether or not this is the case?

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Yes, the Clerk has confirmed that there is no quorum. I order that the Division Bell be rung.

(Hon. (Ms.) ): Hon. Members I think we now have a quorum. Therefore, the Leader of Majority Party can conclude his remarks. Proceed hon. A.B. Duale. You have two minutes.

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Yes, hon. Deputy Speaker. I am very happy that serious Members, who have not earned their salary, and who want to serve the nation have come to save us. Finally, I want to say that Article 203 of the Constitution has put a ceiling and it says: Not less than 15 per cent of the national revenue will go to the county. I want to confirm to this nation that tomorrow we will do it. Under this Bill the Jubilee Government has done 25.8 per cent. If you add the conditional grant, it will come to 34.5. I want to tell my colleagues that the Jubilee Government will implement the 40 per cent on a progressive scale. Watch us next year; we will reach 40 per cent. The other year, before the next general election, I am sure those hon. Members on the other side will join our coalition, not because of anything, but because of the way in which we are going to deliver. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, finally, I want to say, let us sit and serve both the national Government, the county governments, by use of the Constitution and the Public Finance Act, because this is law we have created. We formed the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA), and we are the ones who asked for devolution. Therefore, devolution is not a choice because it is in the Constitution; we want to make sure that county governments take off because they are the necessary infrastructure. With those many remarks, I beg to move.

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, before we proceed to make a decision on the Second Reading, and having confirmed that there is Quorum, I can now put the Question.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that according to the statistics released by the National Council for Population and Development (NCPD) in Policy Brief No. 25 of June 2012, Kenya’s population, as that of all other Sub-Saharan African countries, is rapidly ageing and the population of persons aged 60 years and above increased steadily from 1 million in 1989 to 1.9 million by 2009, and is projected to reach about3 million people by year 2030; concerned that there is an increase in the number of neglected and/or abandoned elderly members of the society as a result of the financial inability of their immediate kin or lack of capacity to handle the health conditions of such senior citizens; noting that despite the legislation enacted to cater for the elderly, little further comprehensive action to enhance their well-being and specifically the health of older Kenyans has ensued, this House urges the Government to establish a free nursing unit for the aged in every hospital in all the counties.

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Asante sana, Bi Naibu Spika wa Muda. Kwa majina ninaitwa hon. Rashid Juma Bedzimba, Mbunge wa Kisauni. Nimesimama kuunga mkono Mjadala huu kwa sababu wazee wengi wenye umri wa miaka sitini na zaidi hawana ajira. Wengi wao huwategemea vijana wao ambao pia wengi wao hawana ajira. Hii imefanya hata sasa

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, my name is Abass Mohamed, Member for Wajir East. I rise to support the Motion. As you are aware, as a result of improved health services, this country’s lifespan is increasing to above 60 years. Many of our people are getting old, but there is no help for them. Besides that, due to the economic constraints and housing problems, the old people are neglected especially in urban areas. There is also westernization that has come to our country, and most of us are not taking care of our parents. In addition to that, the people who served this nation all those years and fought hard for our Independence are today neglected. The Government is paying them peanuts, and they cannot even house themselves. The pensioners are not paid on time, nor are they paid enough. When everybody else’s salaries are increased, pensions are not increased; if it is increased, the increment is too small. Therefore, I support the Motion that we need to start nursing homes to take care of those who served this country, namely our fathers and mothers.

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. If you look at our country in general, there is a break up of our traditional social welfare systems. Old people are being left to live in very deplorable conditions in farmlands that are no longer arable or viable because of our land tenure system. Even when many grand children would want to take care of the old members of the family, it is becoming increasingly hard because of the high unemployment rate. This House has been informed that up to 70 per cent of our young people are unemployed. Therefore, some of our older people do not even have enough food to eat. The media has highlighted some situations where civil society organizations have donated items like blankets to the old people. The old people scramble for the items, and this is a clear indication that the senior members of our society are suffering. This country has not had a proper regime when it comes to pensions. Until recently, pensions were meagre. They were contributory for a very small proportion of our population that had gainful employment. Most of our people are in the informal economy and, therefore, have not had opportunity to benefit from organized pension schemes. Therefore, most of our people end up suffering even when they have pensions, because they can barely sustain the basic needs as prescribed by the Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Even when the Government institutionalized a very proper social protection safety net under the former Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Development, this was

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support the Motion. In our culture, particularly in mine, we are supposed to take care of our elderly persons, feed them, take them to hospital and make sure that they are comfortable. Times have changed and many people have moved from their rural areas to towns and abandoned the elderly in the rural areas. Sometimes, the old people get very sick, but they have no money to go to hospital. They may have land and nice houses that were built for them by their children, but they are abandoned.

I want to tell this nation that it is not the culture any more, but it is the reality of life that these are our people. We do not want to deny them the opportunity to feel that they are wanted and loved by the nation. Therefore, let us support the Motion. I know that every time we are in the rural areas, we look for the senior citizens and leave them with small handouts. How far can that take them? Some of them do not even want to go to hospital because they fear being given the bill. So, they die silently in their homes. Some of them wait for the mercies of the neighbours and friends. So, I support the Motion that we not only have nursing homes or hospital wards for the old people, but the Government should support them with money, so that they can feel wanted and loved in this nation. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, we have come to the end of the business of today. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow Thursday, 9th May, 2013, at 2.30 a.m.

The House rose at 6.30 p.m.

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