Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013, laid on the Table of the House today, Thursday, 6th June, 2013.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order regarding the notice of Motion that my Chair has just given. Looking at the Order Paper and without pre-emptying debate, there is something to do with the Division of Revenue Bill. So, I do not know how we are going to marry the two. That is why you need to give direction as to how we are going to marry the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and Order No.9 on the Division of Revenue Bill.
Thank you, hon. Mbadi for raising that point. I am informed that there is a Supplementary Order Paper being circulated either now or shortly hereafter in which the order of business will be different. Order No.8 will not be what it is and possibly, Order No.9 will follow below. That is the explanation.
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Hon. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(1), on behalf of the House Business Committee (HBC) I rise to give the following Statement regarding the business appearing before the House next week. Hon. Speaker, Sir, next week, the House is expected to debate the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. The House will also consider for debate the following two Motions: One, the Motion by hon. James Gakuya urging the Government to, among other measures, devise friendly waste disposal means. That includes putting up of recycling plants within the dumpsites that will ensure garbage collection and disposal from the point of generation. Two, the Motion by hon. David Ouma Ochieng urging the Government to immediately recruit and deploy, at least, 4,000 clinical officers, 4,000 nurses; and a further 3,000 clinical officers and 3,000 nurses annually and deploy them equitably to all counties in order to alleviate the suffering of the citizens and help provide both curative and preventive health care services to the people of Kenya. The HBC will sit again on Tuesday, 11th June, 2013 at the rise of the House to schedule business for the rest of the week. I hereby table the Statement.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I have two statements to make. One was requested by hon. (Ms.) Rachel Shebesh and the other one by hon. Eng. Nicholas Gumbo. You will give directions as to which one I should give now.
Depending on the length of the discussions that may follow by way of clarifications and because of the business that is just about to commence according to the Supplementary Order Paper, I think you should first of all lay the one that came first and then I will give directions regarding the rest.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I will start with the Statement sought by hon. (Ms.) Shebesh. It is on the issue of prostitution in all universities. The issue of prostitution among university students was recently raised on the Floor by hon. (Ms.) Shebesh. It has also been raised quite a number of times in the media for a long time. It is important to know that no substantive evidence has been received by the Government on the vice occurring within the precincts of the universities and other institutions of higher learning. Such instances could, however, occur outside the learning institutions. Casual factors for such a vice could be related to high levels of poverty, moral decadence in society, the internet and the social media. In order to address such factors, the Government, through the universities and other institutions of higher learning, has initiated several measures including the following:- (i). Rules and regulations to govern the conduct of students within the universities. Those rules are enforced and those who violate them are disciplined according to the university disciplinary procedures.
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Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Leader of the Majority Party for the answer. However, I want to say from the outset that I was categorical in my question. I asked about universities and other colleges because this is a vice that also exists in some of our colleges in urban areas, especially Nairobi. Universities in this country admit parallel students. They receive hundreds of millions of shillings. The reason many young girls would turn to prostitution, even after having performed very well and admitted to the universities, is that the universities no longer offer loans and the basic necessities needed for one to survive in a university.
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I suspect hon. Onyonka, being better in height than hon. Wakhungu---
Hon. Speaker, I would like the Leader of Majority Party to explain something. In many countries in the western world and, indeed, in some of our African Countries, within the university campuses, you have governments which have set up security networks or police networks within the campuses which would stop any activity that is illegal within those universities. Some of those governments, other than our Government, have actually set up CCTVs everywhere in those universities so that when any crime takes place, the Government is able to know what happened and how it happened. Would the Leader of Majority Party explain why that is not possible up to now?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Mine is a request for a statement or clarification not from the Leader of Majority Party, but from the Chairman of the Constituencies Development Fund Committee.
We are not yet there.
I thought hon. Wakhungu is a fast learner. We are seeking clarifications for the statement just issued. Hon. Gikaria, you have an intervention?
Yes, hon. Speaker
Is it on the Statement?
Yes. It is on the statement. Hon. Speaker, I stand to be corrected. The statement sought by hon. Shebesh is very vital and important. We need to discuss it. However, I was just requesting if we can just defer it to some other time because, if you look at the Gallery, there are kids, pupils and students.
As you know hon. Gikaria, the business of the House cannot surely be deferred and we must continue with our business.
Hon. Speaker, I think this is a critical issue, even though the Leader of Majority Party said that there is no evidence. But I think we need to revisit this issue. Maybe, we need to set a date and talk about it or move a Motion. There are cases where this particular issue has caused death and the Press has really been putting it across and we have witnessed students dying while being lured to certain places to be given money, drinks and drugs.
Hon. Lentoimaga, if as you say, in your view, you consider the matter to be of national importance, serious enough to warrant the adjournment of the House for debate, you know the usual methods under Standing Orders. You cannot now rise in your place and claim that you want the House to move that way. Is that hon. Sakaja who wants to say something?
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Your name is shown here as hon. Shebesh, hon. Sakaja. I doubt that, that is actually the case.
You see, the problem is that Members do not want to make interventions by pressing the appropriate buttons. Instead, you want to rise up in your places and the machine does not quite see people. Maybe, for some reason---
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I would like to confirm to the House that I am, indeed, not hon. Shebesh. I am hon. Sakaja Johnson. I would like to seek further clarification on this matter because, indeed, it is a grave issue. It is really sad. When you compare those young girls in the universities, they are not in any way like the ones we have seen in the cases down at the Coast, who had an unfortunate incident a few weeks ago. That was about bestiality. Those are young girls who are in campus. Those are intelligent young girls; young girls who have qualified to go to university. So, indeed, there is a bigger problem. We need specific answers from the Leader of Majority Party as to what social welfare and also support system is available for the students. Many of the students, as you know, who are in the parallel degree programme, are destitute. In as much as they have found a way to get their fees paid, I know students who are sharing rooms. Some are sleeping on the floors and some are doing two or three jobs a day. Is the Government really concerned about the welfare of those students? Can the Higher Education Loans Board programme be expanded? We need specific measures because, if this is happening to students and young people at that age, then it is a worrying situation for the country. Even the students who might be in the gallery, as one hon. Member has said, I think they are right to be here to listen to this. That is because they are also going through the same issues. I would, therefore, like a clear step taken even if it takes some time, for the Government to tell us--- We need clear steps of social welfare system for students in universities. A university like the University of Nairobi has so much land and yet, the students are sharing rooms. I was a student leader there just a few years ago and the situation of the students was really bad. Some students go without food. In as much as the food in the mess is cheap, they cannot afford it. We really need some clear steps or measures taken by the Government. Thank you, hon. Speaker Sir.
Remember hon. Members that you are also at liberty to move Motions urging the Government or whoever to move in a particular direction that you would want the House to express itself on or, indeed, create a mechanism by which you may specify the direction that you may wish either the Government as the Government or the administration of specific institutions to address some of the issues. I quite appreciate that it may be very difficult to get some of the appropriate responses through a statement. Nevertheless, Leader of Majority Party, perhaps, you could make some clarifications.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Hon Shebesh asked about funding. The universities are getting a lot of funding from the parallel degree programmes. I think the universities, like any other institutions in this country, must account for the funding.
Leader of the Majority Party, it appears like there is sufficient time for you to deliver the other Statement, if it is not too long. There are several hon. Members who have made requests for statements.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, it is not too long.
Please, go ahead.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Member for Rarieda, hon. Nicholas Gumbo, who is my food friend, sought a Statement on the circumstances that led to the former Prime Minister (PM) of the Republic of Kenya being denied access to the VIP Lounge at Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA). On the outset, as a good friend and good student of the former PM, I condemn that act. On behalf of Parliament, I want to apologise. However, because I am the bridge between the Government and Parliament, I am obliged, under the Constitution, to read to Parliament the Report from Government pertaining to the matter. Hon. Speaker, Sir, on the outset, I want to state that the airport has three categories of lounges as follows:-
Hon. speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Leader of the Majority Party for that very comprehensive statement and I want to believe it is a statement that he has delivered from his heart. However, as I do that, I want to say here that this statement goes beyond the Prime Minister. I want to say it on the Floor of the House that the crying shame of our country is the way we treat our heroes. I say this because we easily roll out red carpets to foreigners but when it comes to our heroes we treat them with a lot of sneering.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, allow me to indulge the House a little bit. Seven years ago, we swung open the doors of our VIP lounges to two international crooks, whose mission we did not know and we still do not know in this country. Four years ago, an athlete by the name of Usain Bolt came here and people were running over each other trying to get his autograph. He was even taken to the Animal Orphanage where he adopted a cheetah, which I am told almost died of malnutrition later, yet in this country we have our own David Lekuta Rudisha, whose achievements for me are much bigger than those of Usain Bolt.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, it is important that these things are put in perspective because sometimes we as Kenyans take for granted what Kenya has achieved. I am a great lover
Now, is the clarification you are seeking about their level of intoxication or excitement?
No, hon. Speaker, Sir. It is very important that I say this:
No. Hon. Gumbo, what I am trying to do is to take you back to what you said. We have given you sufficient time to talk about athletes, athletics and all other things, but surely now you have gone into the area of intoxication and excitement, seek you clarification.
Hon. speaker, Sir, the clarification I want to seek is that the Leader of the Majority Party means well, and I know senior members of the Jubilee Government mean well and he has given us what they intend to do. However, first of all, I would want him to apologise unconditionally to the Right Hon. Prime Minister and give us an assurance that such a shameful act will never again occur to a man who has done so much for this country.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Obviously, hon. Gumbo wanted to debate something and I am quite certain that he has really done a good job.
Hon. Wandayi, you see, maybe actually, hon. Members, what I should now start doing is to punish hon. Members who do not apply their cards and think that they are going to be noticed on account that they may be as large as elephants or as tiny as mosquitoes. So, I want to encourage hon. Members to make their requests by use of their cards.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank the Leader of the Majority Party for the very comprehensive statement he has given us and just to seek further clarification. However, before I do that, it is important to understand that a VIP status is not just conferred on people. It is something that is earned. It is obvious to all of us really that the Right Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga’s contribution to this country is what has made some of us even sit in this House and debate freely the way we are doing today; but then---
No debate. Two are enough. Actually, they are more than enough.
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Yes, hon. Yusufu Kifuma. That is the name that appears here.
How can you have been here for five years and you do not---
He has been here for ten years!
No, he has not been here for ten years; he has just been here for five years. Please resume your seat. You are totally out of order! You cannot just stand up as if you are on a dancing floor.
There are no cards!
Go and look for it; I am not the one responsible for issuing cards. You know who issues them. The Speaker does not issue them. I do not get upset; I just have to do what I must do. Hon. Members, you must not allow yourselves to do my work. Hon. Onyonka has understood where he should get his card from; not here in the Chamber.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to commend the Leader of the Majority Party for the statement that he has issued in this House today; what happened to the former Prime Minister excites a lot of what we saw in the media. The statement he has given clarifies a number of issues; it is not only about the Prime Minister. There is a lot that needs to be done at our airports. Moi International Airport, Mombasa, is worse because sometimes you can end up losing something there because of the way the Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) people work there. So, I would like to tell the Government that the statement they have issued is very timely because many people are going to be using these facilities. I would like what he has told this House to be documented, so that there are some Ministries which will get it. These things keep changing and we cannot pin down anybody who causes such stuff. I want to urge the Government to put this in documentation and make it clear to the airport, so that when we go---
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am sure that the Leader of the Majority Party is aware that there is only one former Prime Minister living in this Republic and that, that former Prime Minister served under very unique circumstances. The post was created under the National Accord and Reconciliation Act and the Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Act, 2008. Under those two pieces of legislation, he actually served as a co-principal with the former President, hon. Kibaki. Why is the Government refusing to recognize the unique position of hon. Raila Amolo Odinga as a former co-principal under special Acts of Parliament, so that where the former Heads of State go is where he goes, that is VIP Lounge III. He is the only one for whom we created this post. We could not get another title. We could not call him co-president. We said we should use the term “prime minister”, who was to serve for one term and then that title ceased to exist in our
Hon. Speaker, Sir, my clarification is really on the statement because I am now getting a bit confused whether the statement that was sought by our colleague, hon. (Eng.) Gumbo, was specifically to ask that the Government considers that the former Prime Minister accesses the VIP Lounge III that is reserved for deputy presidents and former Heads of State, so that we do not debate on the premise of generalities. From what I am hearing, it seems that there is a specific request that he accesses the VIP Lounge III. Is that the clarification that hon. (Eng.) Gumbo was seeking, or was he seeking what happened, which was unfortunate, and which has been clarified and apologized for by the Leader of the Majority Party?
Leader of the Majority Party, I am sure Hon. Ng’ongo has not pressed his button; therefore---
Hon. Speaker, Sir, again, with your indulgence, I want to set the record straight. As per the law passed in 2003, we have three categories of lounges and you know where every person belongs. It is this House and the Government that can again do a review of that. The State Pavilion is meant for the President of the Republic of Kenya and other Heads of State. The VIP Lounge III is situated next to the domestic departure, and is meant for serving deputy presidents, visiting prime ministers and their equivalent and former Heads of State. If you are a Member of Parliament you will not get access. If you are a Cabinet Secretary, you will not get access. If you are a vice-president of this country, you will get access. The third one is where all of us belong; it is the Government VIP Lounge II. This lounge is situated above Unit II Departures, and is meant for Ministers, former vice-presidents, former prime ministers---
It is also for Cabinet Secretaries, Members of Parliament and the diplomatic community. So, those are the three categories, and until and unless we change the law, that is where each category will go to, as far as the lounges are concerned.
If you protect me, I agree that---
On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. There was a time I made a very passionate statement in this House. I said that sometimes you may not like someone but there is a good number of people who love and even adore him. Please, we are just requesting the Leader of the Majority Party--- I find it very difficult to interrogate the statement by him, because he is not speaking on behalf of the Government. He is just delivering a statement to us. Therefore, I would request that the Leader of the Majority Party asks the Government to ask the President and the Deputy President to reign in one Kimemia, who is a Cabinet Secretary, to make sure that he respects and upholds the
Hon. Ng’ongo I notice that you are not seeking a clarification. You gave some very useful observation that the Leader of the Majority Party is merely conveying some statement from the Government. I thought you were going to say that he could also convey the other one back to the Government. I thought you were going to say that because you were doing very well at that point. This is because if he is just a mere conveyor of a message--- You started off very well that it was difficult for you to interrogate the Leader of the Majority Party because, if you remember, he started by giving an apology. Sometimes I think we tend to forget things very fast, like the rest of Kenyans. The first thing he did was giving an apology and stating that he felt sad, sorry and embarrassed that the former Prime Minister had to undergo what he underwent. So, unless we also want to do other things which may be part of our body chemistries, I think it is important for us to also--- He is conveying a message and he started by first of all apologizing. Hon. Ng’ongo, do you want to prosecute it further?
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir, for that guidance. I wanted the Leader of the Majority Party to convey this message because as I rightly put it earlier, the Leader of the Majority Party cannot purport to speak on behalf of the Government. We appreciate and thank him for the apology. However, the message that I want the Leader of the Majority Party to take to the Jubilee Government is that you cannot equate the former Prime Minister to hon. Ng’ongo and any other Cabinet Secretary or even hon. A. B. Duale. Please, allow the former Prime Minister to continue using VIP III Lounge and not VIP II Lounge. Since the election held on March, the former Rt. Hon. Prime Minister has used the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA) not once, and this incident has never occurred. He has used the same lounge. Why has it become an issue now? It is because someone has thought it wise now to deny the former Rt. Hon. Prime Minister the Lounge for some ulterior reasons. That is why I am requesting the Leader of the Majority Party to relay the message that this person is very important to some people, and an example is hon. John Ng’ongo. Let them give me peace by allowing the former Rt. Hon. Prime Minister to use VIP III Lounge and not VIP II Lounge.
Very well. Let the Leader of the Majority Party continue to make his responses. Unfortunately, it will be the last.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to confirm that under the Constitution, I am the Leader of the Majority Party. In all presidential democracies, it is the Leader of the Majority Party who brings sentiments of the Government to Parliament and to hon. Members. I have accepted that I will take hon. Ng’ongo’s message but I will amend it and say that every group in this country has somebody it adores politically. There are those who adore the former Vice President and Minister for Home Affairs; there are those who adore the current Deputy President; there are those who adore the current Head of State and there are those who adore hon. A. B. Duale and hon. Ng’ongo.
On a point of information, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Hon. A. B. Duale, do you want the information?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I do not need his information.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am ready to communicate his plea on behalf of his leader and any other leaders. From today, you should know whether you
Hon. (Dr.) Eseli, if you have an issue, you know how to go about it. When another hon. Member is speaking and then you begin shouting across as you have just done, you are totally out of order! You should wait for him to finish; I can see your name here and I will give you a chance. Hon. (Dr.) Eseli when you speak loudly, as you have done, obviously, you make the new Member, Dr. Nyikal, who is seated next to you, to think that, that is the way to do things every day.
Hon. (Dr.) Eseli, you know that is still out of order! Hon. A.B. Duale, are you through with your statement?
Yes, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Then let us go to the next statement by hon. Mark Lomunokol.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Pursuant to the Standing Order No.44(2)(c), I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Energy, Communication and Information regarding the delay in the completion of an electrification project by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) in Kacheliba.
Order, hon. Members! Consult in low tones! Chair of the Committee, just before you respond let me just request the Members who want to hold consultations with the Chair to also minimize doing that. The Chair must pay undivided attention to deliberations on the Floor. I am not saying that you should not consult, but make it minimal. Do not come and kneel down here. It is not allowed. Just a minute or 30 seconds, so that, at least, the Chair can follow what is being said by the Member on the Floor. I am just trying to plead with you that sometimes you may think that the Chair does not want to listen to you; it is also because I am also under a duty to listen to what is being said by the Member on the Floor.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to risk being labeled Government, but I can answer that question right now. But give me two weeks, so that I can get the relevant information and then I respond.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I agree to the two weeks, as requested by the Chairperson.
Where is the Chair of the relevant Committee?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise under the Standing Order No.44(2)(c) to request a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. This regards the failure by the Attorney-General’s Chambers to release Kshs21,333,557 to hon. Otieno Mak’anyengo awarded to him on 15th June, 2012 by the High Court of Kenya for wrongful detention.
In his statement, he should provide the reasons why the money has not been released to the said person. Two, he should indicate to the House when the money will be paid to the former hon. Member.
Chairperson of Justice and Legal Affairs!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I will provide the statement as soon as possible or practicable.
Hon. Koyi, did you hear the commitment: As soon as possible?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I say no because the answer is not satisfactory. When is he going to respond properly in this House?
He is not going to reply. Indeed, hon. Members, I want to encourage you to know that very soon we are going to have a direction on this matter. I told you yesterday that your colleagues are not going to reply. They are merely supposed to make reports. This arrangement appears to be a bit convoluted. Hon. Chepkonga, can you be a bit more precise?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I think two weeks will be good for hon. Koyi.
That is okay, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Very well. The other hon. Member seeking a statement is hon. Muthomi Njuki.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c) I wish to request a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology regarding the criteria for classification of hardship areas for the purpose of payment of hardship allowances to teachers and other civil servants. The Chairperson should, in particular, address this matter as it applies to Chuka/Igambang’ombe Division in Meru South District. The Chairperson should find out why in two districts, separated by a river that is hardly 20 feet wide, one person is paid hardship allowance while another person is not paid.
Who is the Chairperson of that Committee? That Chairperson is becoming notorious for absence. What is the problem with him? Is there a Vice Chairperson for that Committee?
Now hon. Okoth has gone back to his usual practice of raising his hand; I am sure this is in jest. You cannot raise hands here. Is there a Member of the Committee to give an undertaking? In the ideal situation, if the Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson are not present that matter should be
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I can confirm that unlike in the last Parliament the leadership in both Houses will take this very seriously. The answer will be brought within two weeks and we will communicate in writing to the Chair and the Vice- Chair of that Committee.
Hon. speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.44 (2)(c) I wish to request a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security regarding the recent expose of a gang of young men, who rob residents and rape teenage girls in Dandora, leading to the death of some of the victims. Following information from the area District Officer (DO), the Chief, Assistant Chief and other security officers it was established that there were hotspots in Dandora where boys aged 14 years to 17 years, and calling themselves “Jeshi,” drag and rape girls inside empty or unfinished houses in the area. These administration officers further revealed that these attacks on the girls are facilitated by a 15-year old girl, with the involvement of a popular club in town frequented by under age children on Sundays. The area administration lacks capacity to handle the situation. However, I commend them for going beyond the call of duty. In his statement the Chairperson should: (a) state what the Government is doing about this gang in Dandora in terms of arresting them and providing assistance to the rape victims and their families; (b) explain the measures taken against this club which is said to welcome under age children to drink and engage in other explicit activities; and (c) enumerate the steps, if any, that the police have taken in implementing the Sexual Offences Act by setting up a gender unit in every police station, ideally manned by female police officers.
Is the Chairperson of that Departmental Committee present?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I think the Chairpersons of these Committees have started behaving like Ministers in the last Parliament. This is not acceptable. We used to tell the President to whip his team. It is now my business to make sure that if these Chairpersons do not come to the House then they will be whipped. I can assure that the same will happen to the Chairperson of this particular Committee. Hon. Speaker, Sir, in two weeks time the statement will be ready.
Hon. Members, I wish to bring to your attention a couple of measures recently taken by my office to deal with the worrying state of congestion and difficulties that you go through in accessing services, and in conducting committee work within Parliament. You are all aware that the number of Members of Parliament, both in
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to sincerely thank you for making that clarification. The reports that came after this Communication were a little bit
Hon. Mbadi, fortunately, this House took a conscious decision to have live broadcast of its business, so that whatever happens here is open to all Kenyans in their sitting rooms, including those with television sets in their bedrooms as well as those in places of entertainment and others who have the luxury of having television sets in their cars, et cetera . So, the media, really, has not been barred from covering the House. It is only fair that the media be also requested to be fair in what they report. However, arrangements are being made to accommodate the media temporarily in some different location. Before that happens, they should just use the available spaces within Parliament Buildings. If hon. Members could, for more than three months, operate from all manner of places, surely, the media should also sympathise. Committees have been informed; we just do not have space. The temporary structure where the media houses operated from is enough for two committees to sit concurrently. Therefore, we are just requesting that the media bears with us, just like you, hon. Members, have done in the past. The media has not been excluded and will not be excluded from Parliament Buildings but, as you said, hon. Mbadi, they are entitled to their opinions, including saying that even now, they have been barred from covering Parliament. It is up to them to choose what they want to report. If they want to report that it has now been confirmed from the Chair that they have been barred, we cannot help it. They will say so but we are saying loudly and clearly that they
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, notwithstanding the resolution of the House of 16th May, 2013 regarding appointment of Members to the respective committees, this House further approves the following changes to the membership of Select Committees:- 1. The Hon. Samuel Chepkong’a, M.P. and The Hon. Boniface Otsiula, M.P. to move from the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee to the Pensions Committee. 2. The Hon. John Karanja Kihagi, M.P. be appointed to the Committee on Implementation. 3. The Hon. Eng. M. Maalim, M.P. be appointed to the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee. 4. The Hon. Maison Leshoomo, M.P. to move from the Committee on Catering and Health Club to the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunities. 5. The Hon. Zipporah Jesang, M.P. be appointed to the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunities. 6. The Hon. Ronald Tonui, M.P. and the Hon. Sammy Koech, M.P. be appointed to the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade. 7. The Hon. Harrison Kombe, M.P., The Hon. Joseph Kiuna, M.P. and the Hon. Janet Teiya, M.P. be appointed to the Catering and Health Club Committee. 8. The Hon. David Wafula, M.P. and The Hon. Paul Bii, M.P. be appointed to the Committee on Delegated Legislation.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I would like to second this Motion by our Chief Whip and say first that I acknowledge that we have really had a challenge in formation of committees because of the great numbers that we have now in the House. However, I would also want to acknowledge that a lot of give and take has played out both within the Jubilee Coalition and CORD Coalition and, therefore, I want to urge just like my Whip has said that the CORD Coalition hastens this process so that every hon. Member plays their rightful role in this House. It is their right and these committees are now playing a bigger role than they played in the history of this Parliament. We are the House that probably has in the three arms of the Government, I believe, the biggest role to play when it comes to formulation of policy and implementation of what the Executive intends to do for Kenyans. So, I am urging that we quickly hasten this process and complete it. I want to second and congratulate the leadership of Jubilee for being able to complete this process and urge CORD to do the same.
Hon. Members, before proposing this Question, I want to draw your attention to the clear provisions of Standing Order No.176. As you know Standing Order No.173 is on nomination of members of select committees. Standing Order No.174 is on criteria for nomination. Standing Order No.175 is on approval of nomination. So, once you have been nominated, the approval is by the House. It is important that we bear that in mind. Standing Order No.176 (1) is on discharge of a member from a committee and it states: “The parliamentary party that nominated a member to a select committee, may give notice, in writing, to the Speaker that the member is to be discharged from a select committee.” Standing Order No.176(2) states: “The discharge of a member shall take effect upon receipt by the Speaker of a notice under paragraph (1).” Hon. Members, I am drawing your attention to this Standing Order just to show you that it was not necessary for this House to even get involved in this, but I think what the leadership has done is to make sure that everybody knows what has happened so that hon. Members do not come to the Speaker’s office to claim that they have been moved
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on the Division of Revenue Bill 2013, laid on the Table of the House today, Thursday 6th June 2013. Hon. Speaker, Sir, for the avoidance of doubt, the functions of the Budget and Appropriations Committee are as follows:-
(i) investigate, inquire into and report on all matters related to coordination, control and monitoring of the national Budget;
(ii) discuss and review the estimates and make recommendations to the House;
(iii) examine the Budget Policy Statement presented to the House;
(iv) examine Bills related to the national budget including Appropriation Bills; and,
(v) evaluate tax estimates, economic and budgetary policies and programmes with direct budget outlays.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, allow me before I say much to express my appreciation to the members of the Budget and Appropriations Committee who have worked tirelessly since they were constituted and, indeed, met yesterday until midnight to among other things discuss the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013. Hon. Speaker, we spent enough time on this matter and one of the issues that we canvassed was the recommendation that I now wish to bring before you. It is found in the document that I believe has been circulated.
The recommendation among others is as follows:-
The Appropriation of Revenue Allocation Bill stands as approved by the House on Thursday, 9th May, 2013. The implications of that are fairly simple. It means that we will be recommending and, indeed, are recommending in effect that the county governments, for the Financial Year 2013/2014 will get Kshs210 billion. That was the figure approved by this Assembly on Thursday, 9th May, 2013.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, even as I make this recommendation, I wish to remind this House, the Senate and the governors and indeed the nation that the Budget and Appropriations Committee is fully committed to the implementation of the Constitution and particularly devolution which is at the heart of devolution. We have fought hard for
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on this Motion that he has moved. This House will recall that we passed the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 and immediately we passed it, it was referred to the Senate and this was based on our Standing Orders and also as picked from the Public Finance Management Act. Subsequently, this House will recall that I raised an issue with referring that Bill to the Senate. From the outset, I would like to point out that this should not be seen as a tug of war between the National Assembly and the Senate. We are all aware that the Senate has a responsibility spelt out under Article 96 of the Constitution and the role of the Senate can never be down played. It cannot be underrated; it has a lot to do with the protection of the counties and that role cannot be taken over by the National Assembly. Equally, the National Assembly has its roles spelt out under Article 95.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, you made a ruling and in your ruling, you were very clear that having considered this matter, the issues that I raised – substantially I raised three issues - to do with whether Part I of Chapter Eight of the Constitution of Kenya exclusively vests in the National Assembly the role of determining national revenue between the levels of government, in your ruling, you said that under Article 95(4)(a) of the Constitution, the National Assembly determines the allocation of national revenue between the levels of Government as provided in Part Four of Chapter 12. This role is exclusively vested in the National Assembly and there is no provision in Part I of Chapter Eight in the Constitution that points to the contrary. So that matter with your ruling was settled. I would like to point out at this stage that you said when you made your ruling that it was not appropriate to withdraw or recall the Bill from the Senate. I think that would not have looked good and you advised that when this Bill finally gets back to the National Assembly, then we would act on it appropriately. When the Bill was finally brought back to the National Assembly, your able deputy referred it to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Therefore, in our meeting as the Budget and Appropriations Committee, we were to determine whether, based on your ruling and based on the issues that were raised which have been canvassed extensively, whether this Bill should have been referred to the Senate in the first place.
In our considered opinion and the rules of this House, we felt that opening this Bill for discussion again was going to be counterproductive and will go against the ruling of the Speaker, which was very clear. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I know this matter has enlisted a lot of debate and that is why I would like to revisit just a few issues to bring into perspective those that have not been very clear. There has been argument that because the Division of Revenue Bill divides revenue between the National Government and county government and because county government is mentioned then you need the Senate because this is the House that takes care of the interest of the counties. However, if you do that it is very clear that you will also be involving Senators in legislating on National Government issues. This is because
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this report. From the outset, I want to thank the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for this report that will help us solve the issue of the Division of Revenue Bill. I also want to thank hon. Ng’ongo for raising all the major constitutional provisions that give the National Assembly the mandate to have the Division of Revenue Bill.
The Division of Revenue Bill came to this House and Article 201(b)(i) of the Constitution specifically states that:- “( b ) The public finance system shall promote an equitable society, and in particular— (ii) revenue raised nationally shall be shared equitably among national and county governments”.
The Constitution has specifically given definite roles to the two Houses. Article 95 gives the role of the National Assembly explicitly and the Bills and the issues that the National Assembly will dispose of. Article 96 does the same for the Senate. From the outset, I want to confirm that it is the Kenyan people in their numbers who sought for a devolved system of Government. It is the Kenyan people who again sought to establish a bicameral parliament. It is the same people of Kenya who again, in making this Constitution, created the definite roles of these two. When this Bill came to this House and amendments were brought by many Members, including hon. Ng’ongo, the Kshs210 billion that was to go to the county governments was an agreed position. This House and this country have formed constitutional commissions for this particular function. The main mandate of the Commission on Revenue Allocation is to decide on the division of revenue between the national and the county governments led by none other than Mr. Cheserem. The Transition Authority, again, is a creation of this House on behalf of the county governments. The agreed Kshs210 billion for the county governments was based on a solid fiscal framework that the National Treasury, the CRA, TNA and other stakeholders agreed and came to that position. Article 203 of the Constitution is very important in the Budget-making process and in the division of revenue. It says that when we are dividing revenue between the county and the national Government, we must look into the following parameters, namely, national interest, public debts and other national obligations that we have as a country and the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform their duties. The Division of Revenue Bill does not fall within Articles 103 and 108 of the Constitution that provide for Bills concerning county governments. The Bill on County Allocation will originate from the Senate. Reading the ruling that you gave on this matter, when we look at the Constitution, we totally agree with you. For example, if we send this
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion. I wish to thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the wonderful job he did and coming up with sound recommendations. Division of revenue is the sole province of our National Assembly. Article 218 (1)(a) states thus: “ A Division of Revenue Bill which shall divide revenue raised by the national government among the national and county levels of government in accordance with Constitution and a County Allocation of Revenue Bill which shall divide among the counties the revenue allocated to the county level of government on the basis determined in accordance with the resolution in force under Article 217.” The operative words here are “among the counties”. So, the Constitution is very clear in our minds and interpretation that this House has the sole domain with regard to the Division of Revenue Bill. Were it not for our maturity, it may be even suggested that there is mischief and self-interest at hand on the part of the Senate in their attempt to have domain over the Division of Revenue Bill. Article 96(3) states: “The Senate determines the allocation of national revenue among counties as provided in Article 217, and exercises oversight over national revenue allocated to the county governments.” To our minds, it is very clear that the role is distinct between the Senate and this national Assembly that the domain of the Division of Revenue Bill resides in this House. In fact, looking at the Standing Orders which I dare say may contain some anomaly, they give rise to the suggestion that the Division of Revenue Bill has to move from this House to the Senate. If you look at Standing Order No.233 (4) it reads: “The Division of Revenue Bill having been passed by the National Assembly shall stand referred to the Senate in accordance with Standing Order No.142 in concurrence of the other House.” It is my suggestion and strong recommendation that we do away with this Standing Order. National Assembly needs to review this matter immediately and forthwith. This particular standing order is creating a lot of confusion. It creates the impression in the minds of the public and even the Senate that this House has to refer the
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. Let me also take this opportunity to appreciate the work of our Chairman and the whole Committee. He drove us hard. We worked up to midnight last night and it reminded me of my days when I used to receive babies in hospitals at any time.
I think that means that through this we will probably save more babies than I used to do one by one. I do not want to say anything about the legal issues or about when and where we should refer this. I think that has been dealt with adequately by hon. Mbadi and the Leader of the Majority Party. However, an issue that I want to bring out that came to our mind as a Committee is the need to plan devolution carefully. We had the opportunity to meet with the governors and the Cabinet Secretary in charge of finance. Earlier, in a different committee we had an opportunity to meet with the Cabinet Secretary in charge of health. What has come out is that whereas it is very clear in the Constitution under Schedule Four of what the functions are for the county governments and national Government there is great need to plan this very carefully so that some functions that have been going on are not interrupted. For example, in the health sector the only functions of the national Government are policy and referral facilities. Even the referral facilities are not very well defined. In education, the only functions of the county government are pre-primary schools and polytechnics. As we sat with the governors and discussed the issue, it was clear that the governors would want to do more, say, in education. A governor indicated; why would he not be responsible for what is happening in a primary school? What kind of governor would he or she be if something is going on in the primary schools and yet we are saying here that the county government cannot do anything about it? That sounded reasonable. On the other hand, we looked at many programmes in the Ministry of Health that over the years have been run as national programmes and there are systems that have been put in place to run them that way. Saying that we take all that and move them to the county without looking at the structures that will make them run efficiently, may be a bit reckless. For example, the issue of vaccine programmes; the treatment of people with HIV (ARV programmes); treatment of people with TB and so on. We realized that there is great need for a planned devolution. The forum that was suggested by the Committee and our Chairman has put it out fairly clearly; it is the Ministry of Finance, the Ministry in charge of devolution, the Transitional Authority, and the Council of Governance. They need to meet from time to time and agree on what function can be effectively and efficiently run and at what level so that we do not disrupt services. I am sure that what is provided took into account the national interests and capacities on either side. Therefore, when funds get devolved, for instance in the area of healthcare; obviously, most of the funds should go to the counties. That is as it should be,
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I am a Member of the Budget Committee and I want to confirm that yesterday, we worked almost up to today. So, I support the Report because it is very clear. The roles of the National Assembly and those of the Senate are very clear. I do not think there is any dispute in the Constitution as regards the roles of the two Houses of Parliament. Hon. Speaker, Sir, we are not saying that the county governments should not be given more money. Indeed, they must be given more money but we are saying that we must follow a process. The Constitution says that before giving any function or money to the county governments, they must show that they have the capacity to use it properly. Even the report from the Treasury says that they have actually done the costing for the amount they are proposing to allocate to the county governments. Therefore, I want to urge this House that, for the right procedure to be followed, from now onwards; let us approve the Report of the Budget Committee, so that we do not go back to the same thing in the next financial year. Following this debate, it is important for the relevant Committee to bring an amendment to the Standing Orders, so that they can be in line with the Constitution in as far as division of revenue is concerned. The role of the National Assembly is to divide the national income between the two levels of the Government, namely, the national Government and the county governments. That is clearly stated in Article 95, where the roles of the National Assembly are mentioned. The Constitution says that, once the National Assembly divides the national income between the two levels, the Senate can do what is called “allocation of revenue to counties”. That is their mandate. It is very clearly stated in the Constitution. In fact, changing what the Constitution says is like carrying out a constitutional amendment. Allocation of revenue to counties is squarely their role. Therefore, let us do our job, as the National Assembly. Let the Senate and the county governments do their jobs, so that we do not clash with each other along the way on matters which are clearly stated in the Constitution. Hon. Speaker, Speaker, your ruling was actually correct. I know that there was a ruling from the other House of Parliament but we must follow the Constitution even when we make rulings. Division of revenue is clearly the business of the National Assembly. If a time comes when the National Assembly purports to take
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion on this Bill on the Report of the Committee and without belabouring what my other hon. colleagues have said, Article 95(4)(a) of the Constitution is very clear that the role of dividing revenue at the national and county level is the express mandate of the National Assembly. In fact, for purposes of this Motion I would want to read it. It says: “The National Assembly – (a) determines the allocation of national revenue between the levels of government, as provided in Part 4 of Chapter Twelve.” Hon. Speaker, Sir, and the levels of Government are only two – the national and county. So, therefore, this is actually a non-issue. In fact, I think I would want to say that we were wrong from the beginning in transmitting, transferring or referring this Bill to the Senate. Hon. Speaker, Sir, if you look at the proposed allocations by the Senate, you realise that indeed as a country as much as we support devolution, this is the first time that we are making allocations to county governments and they are yet to develop capacities that would ensure that they expedite their mandate. Therefore, it is not just a question of recalculating figures. You move from Kshs210 billion to Kshsh248 billion. In fact, if you were even to look at the contents of the proposed amendments, the proposed amendment to Clause 4 is very suspect because it seems to suggest that if county governments do not have enough money any extra cost shall be borne by the national Government. Surely, if we were to legislate such kind of an amendment it would mean that counties have a leeway to spend whatever they want to spend and if they have deficits then it is the responsibility of the national Government and that does not encourage self sufficiency. It does not encourage counties to go out there and actually determine their economic prosperity by looking at viable projects that maybe existing or potential ones within their counties. Hon. Speaker, Sir, in actual sense, the proposals from the Senate are very minimal and I would want to say this is an indication that the National Assembly actually did its job very well. What they are proposing – some of them are actually editorials like “remove the word “allocation” and put the word “grant’. Surely, I think that would have also been observed at a later stage if at all it was that necessary.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion and even as I do that, I would like to note that indeed it has been quite unfortunate that the tone of the debate over the past few weeks about where the Division of Revenue Bill should be discussed, whether it should go to the Senate, has degenerated into a supremacy war as to who is more superior between the Senate and the National Assembly. The content was lost in that debate. Whereas the Constitution is clear, I think the Report of the Committee on Budget and the recommendations have it that yes, the Division of Revenue Bill is rightfully in the National Assembly but it is clear that the National Assembly and the Senate are equal. Hon. Speaker, Sir, despite the National Assembly and the Senate being equal, equality does not imply uniformity. There are different roles. So, I think even as we move ahead we need to move away from that debate on who has greater mandate or which House is superior. Both Houses are important to Kenyans. Both Houses have the mandate of Kenyans and both Houses have specific roles to play within devolution. Hon. Speaker, Sir, in addition I would like to say that devolution is also not about the county level of Government versus the national level of Government. These two levels of Government are interdependent. They need each other and we are in one state as well. For the county level of Government to think that by starving the national level of Government devolution is achieved it is akin to cutting your nose to spite your face.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. Judging by the mood of the House, everybody seems to be in agreement, would I be in order to ask the Mover of the Motion to respond?
Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh, rising in her place requests that the Mover be called upon to be reply. It is up to you, hon. Members to determine it.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, let me in reply take this opportunity to thank hon. Ng’ongo for seconding this Motion and all those very appropriate contributions from hon. Gethenji, the Leader of the Majority Party, Prof. Nyikal, hon. Langat, hon.
Hon. Members, the House having resolved that business in the manner that it has, you will recall that I made a Communication on 22nd May, 2013, regarding the execution of this Bill by the National Assembly. In the said Communication, I indicated that at that time I was inclined not to make any orders until the Bill is formally transmitted back to the Assembly as envisaged in the Standing Orders.
The Senate transmitted the Bill to the Assembly by way of a Message dated 24th May, 2013. The Message was later read to the Assembly and communicated to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It is, therefore, clear that the Assembly is now formally seized, once again, of the Division of Revenue Bill; being the National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2013. The House will recall that this Bill had passed all stages required by the National Assembly rules including the Third Reading. Indeed, the Bill was passed by the National Assembly with amendments on 9th May, 2013. The House now having adopted the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee under Order No.9 of today’s Supplementary Order Paper, I will now proceed to execute my constitutional duty and submit the Bill directly to the President for assent within the requisite timelines.
In this regard, Order No.10 on the Supplementary Order Paper will, therefore, stand dropped.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am fully grateful. Thank you for indulging me and now wish to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House, today Thursday, 6th June, 2013:- The Budget and Appropriations Committee Report on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Financial Year 2013/2014. The Budget and Appropriations Committee Report on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Financial Year 2013/2014.
You have the leave and the sympathy again of hon. Speaker to give Notice of Motion.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts The Budget and Appropriations Committee Report on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for Financial Year 2013/2014, laid on the Table of the House today, Thursday, 6th June, 2013.
I think it is important to appreciate the Paper laid by hon. Musyimi and since the House does not sit on Fridays, I would like to encourage hon. Members to each get a copy because it is an extremely important document dealing with appropriations. It will, obviously be on the Order Paper on Tuesday for debate. It is for that reason that I exercise the powers of the Speaker under Standing Order No.1 to allow hon. Musyimi to lay that Paper at this late hour and also to give notice of Motion so that during the weekend, hon. Members can have time to read through that Paper. I am sure that as you know the Budget Committee has really worked overdrive the last few days to come up with that Paper. Therefore, I want to encourage hon. Members to get copies of the said document. Next Order!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:-
THAT aware that the road network in the country currently stands at approximately 160,886 km, out of which only approximately 11,189 km are paved; noting that the extent of the unclassified rural and urban roads remain unknown with most of such roads in bad condition; aware that good infrastructure facilitate trade, economic development and improvement in the quality of life; this House urges the Government, through Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KERRA), Kenya National Highway Authority (KENHA and Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) to upgrade a minimum of twenty (20) and a maximum of thirty (30) kilometers of roads to bitumen standards in every constituency across the country in every financial year to enhance the road network in the country and subsequently enhance agricultural productivity and job creation.
I would like to take this House a little back and remind it about floods which washed away our roads. The damage the floods caused on our roads is estimated at Kshs30 billion. This is a very serious issue because if we want to achieve food security in this country, then we have to repair our roads. This is because most of our food comes from the rural areas because our economy is agriculture-based. Those roads are in a very bad state and we have a tall order to achieve food security.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the floods which were experienced a month ago damaged our roads to the tune of Kshs30 billion. This is the case and yet the allocation that was made by the Treasury was a mere Kshs1.5 billion. So, you can see that there is a deficit of Kshs28.5 billion. This amount will only cater for the existing roads which were damaged by the floods. Most of those roads are unpaved and they are in the rural areas where agricultural activities normally take place. That is why I came up with this Motion and I would like to plead with this House to pass it. Although we understand the financial constrains that this country goes through because I belong to the Budget Committee, and bearing in mind that we have a deficit of almost Kshs160 billion this financial year, we can achieve this in each and every financial year depending on the funds that are available. A minimum of 20 kilometres per year translates to 100 kilometres in five years. So, hon. Members can identify one or two roads within their constituencies which is their lifeline and then it is developed within five years. You will do very well if you have 100 kilometres of paved road.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, when this House was inaugurated, I was shocked to learn that most of the Members contribute funds to primary school children to go and see paved roads elsewhere. You cannot image this level of marginalization. I do not even know the best parliamentary words that I can use. This infrastructure imbalance has to come to an end but how will it come to an end? It is by making sure that after the dispensation of the new Constitution each and every Kenyan is equal; each and every area or part of this county is also equal. How do we deal with the historical injustices of infrastructure without which an area can never develop? That is why some areas of this country are like the Great Britain or the First World while some counties are in the Third World. To amend that historical injustice as far as infrastructure is concerned, I plead with this House to see the light of the day and make sure that the equitability in road infrastructure in this country is implemented in each and every constituency. For example, Kshs125
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the Motion as moved by hon. Mburu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to contribute to this Motion with a quick comment that noting that it is debate about wealth; the road to wealth is built with good intentions, this Motion is filled with many good intentions for which we must be realistic on the level of funding implications that it will have.
While I support the necessity of good infrastructure for commerce, agriculture, job creation and development of our nation, the way the Motion is currently drafted makes it a little bit hard to support it because you cannot plan every financial year for 249 constituencies for a specific number of kilometers as provided for here. So, I think that this is something that should be referred to the relevant Committee to freshen a little bit because I am 100 per cent in support of improvement of our infrastructure for all the good reasons highlighted here namely, to promote commerce, agriculture and job creation. However, I also think that the narrow terms and presentation in the minimum of 20 kilometres and a maximum of 30 kilometres might not reflect economic reality and need at the constituency level and in different parts of the country where the needs may
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As much as I appreciate the Member for Kibra, and his very good contribution, I know we are still in the process of learning, but is he in order to violate the rules of relevancy? We are talking about roads. Indeed, even if he wants to infuse all these Mau Mau issues, he can find a way of cleverly making an issue of roads and infusing it instead of bringing totally unrelated issue. Is he in order?
I thought the Member for Kibra was talking about the roads that the veterans followed.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, and the roads that led them to detention camps which have led them to traumatic memories of a 50 years generation later.
But let it be as relevant as it can.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will stick to relevancy. I insisted on bringing up the matter because it is a current issue that has been settled today. It has only come to our attention and we have a new Government in place. Our Mau Mau veterans fought on the long road to freedom for our nation and our Independence and here we are talking about a new Government in place that clearly has not stated what its policy is on this. The Mau Mau case was taken privately through private efforts. It has been a long legal journey that started in 2009 that has just been recognized now. The British are saying that they do not recognize liability even though they are willing to set a settlement in this case. So, this is a current issue. Let me point out that currently, Kenyan forces are in Somalia and I hope that they are not making the mistake that the British Forces made when they were in Kenya between 1952 and 1963 of torturing our people. The reason here is that 60 or 50 years from now, we may be called as Kenyans to account for any
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to contribute to this important Motion. We attach a lot of importance to our roads because they are important for economic development. I appreciate what the Member for Kibra has indicated about considering our priorities and not narrowing them down. The Member who has brought this Motion must have suffered the marginalization which we have had, especially some of us who come from rural constituencies. Some of the constituencies including mine, Kipkelion East, have never seen a road cutting through the villages except for the highway which passes through Kericho Town. For any economic development to take place, there must be good roads. For the last ten years, the Government has come up with performance contract. That is why we established many authorities like the KURA, KERRA and KENHA and each one of them has a certain mandate. We have seen their work and compared it to what was being done before by the Ministry of Public Works, which operated without any work plan and performance contracts. I support what the Member is proposing to ensure that other than these authorities working on our roads, they should have a specific minimum work plan to ensure that everyone in this country enjoys a better road. Some areas have suffered for a long time in this country. For example, there is an important road that cuts across a very productive agricultural area in Nakuru and Kericho. It cuts from Chepchir to Molo, which is a very productive area. More often, lorries and tractors get stuck on the road when ferrying potatoes and cabbages. A lot of produce go to waste from this area yet in other parts of the country, people are dying from hunger. A lot of food is produced in this country, but there are no roads to take it to the markets or to the NCPB. Whereas I support this Motion, I urge this House to take this seriously. If such roads are tarmacked, our farmers will sleep well. Most of our farmers, including myself, have sleepless nights when our produce is ready to be delivered to the market but the roads are impassable. There are areas where people spend almost all their savings to get their produce to the market. For example, farmers along the recently constructed Thika Superhighway---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Motion and I imagine that every Member in this House would want to contribute on it. I am, therefore, proposing that we limit the time that each Member is taking to five minutes under Standing Order No.97.
All right! I think that is a very valid point of order. I have about 15 requests, making this Motion very popular.
Hon. Limo, you are on your feet. We will give you one minute to complete your five minutes.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, whereas I agree with your ruling, I would have requested that the new time limit does not apply to me because I was already on the Floor. However, I appreciate the fact that all the Members must contribute. It is very important that we support this Motion and adopt it, so that we can have a minimum of 20 kilometres of tarmac in each constituency. If there are enough resources, we can have more.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion. I would like to note that we did not necessarily need to decrease--- My understanding is that this should be going on until next week. Because of inequalities that we have seen in this country, there are areas that are more developed than others. There are areas that have more than they need. My constituency does not have any tarmac. We have had an allocation for a tarmacked road which has been tarmacked in patches. There are cows and goats there and even grass is growing on parts of the road. I will soon be requesting a statement from the relevant committee on what happened to that road. This is because we could not have put in so much money. There is a lot of wastage in the budget of this country. This is from what I have seen in the last Parliament. Unfortunately, this year, the Government was a little bit cheeky and it did not give us an itemized budget. So, really the budget we are passing here is, in my very humble view, just a PR exercise. It is more like the vetting process that we are doing which has become sort of a conveyor belt. Names just pass without really interrogating people seriously. It is the same thing we are doing with the budget. We are not really interrogating it very seriously. We put in a lot of money that is usually wasted in things that are not necessary, for instance, an aeroplane for the Judiciary. I do not know what the Judiciary needs a plane for and yet where I come from people do not have even the most basic of things. We do not have a court! Can they first of all get us a court before they get a plane for the Judiciary? However, I think that the greater challenge that we have is to harmonize the various roles of the new institutions that we have in this country, that is, the Senate, the National Assembly, the national Government, and the devolved units. Even now the roles are not very clear. The devolved Governments have also come up with their budgets. Most people do not know what is in their budgets. You will realize that most of their budgets have only recurrent items. Our budget, although it is much project focused or programme focused, 60 per cent to 70 per cent of it is still recurrent budget. So, we are presuming that there is some money that is going to the roads either in the devolved system or in the national budget. My worry is that we might actually pass this Motion and pass that there is absolutely nothing in the budget. As a matter of urgency we need to have a forum where we teach each of the institutions their respective roles and then harmonize.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We cannot downplay the need for proper infrastructure. We have come from the regions which have suffered a lot especially the 24 year rule in this country. Infrastructure was almost a favor. This Motion is good and can be made better. Had it been in place I would not have a road which is 57 kilometres traversing Sagana and Marwa take ten years to construct. This would have taken two years. If this was in place I would not have in my constituency a road that we are competing who should construct it. We had to bring this to the attention of the President when he visited us. The road is only five kilometers. Again, if this was in place we would have a good road of say 30 kilometres and this would help us transport our coffee to the market. Probably there is a bit of fine tuning that we may need to do. We have talked about value for money. If you spend so thin so that you achieve uniformity, sometimes equity is not necessarily uniformity. This also touches on the practicability of these issues. For example, to give the people of Starehe 150 kilometres within their constituency, they do not even have those roads, but they still have some infrastructural needs that can be crafted to their needs. We have roads that traverse across constituencies and counties. These are mostly done by KeNHA. It will pose logistical and project management challenges to have them done in bits of 30 kilometres. If you go to Wajir and you do, say, 20 kilometres or 30 kilometres you may not achieve the desired results simply because the distances are so vast in such a constituency. We need, therefore, to support this Motion and see how it can be fine-tuned to ensure that the infrastructural development that we are all yearning for is achieved. A stitch in time saves nine. We have had very big challenges with maintenance of our roads. We do not have to do roads and forget that they need to be maintained. Many of the road accidents that we experience today are as a result of poor maintenance. There should be a proper programme of maintaining our roads to ensure that the gains we have made are consolidated and then we move forward, as a country, without having dilapidated roads that were done only a short while back. Such roads actually pose a bigger challenge than
Hon. Sumra, can you approach the Dispatch Box and contribute from there?
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker, Sir. This is a very a very important Motion. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a different view. The roads that have been made by China Roads and Bridges Corporation are excellent. If you go to the rural areas, like our leader said, maintenance of roads is a problem once the floods come. I have a suggestion. We have the cabro technology that has come in. A cabro manufacturing machine from China or India costs Kshs5 million. So, the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) could buy these machines. If you currently buy cabro, it costs Kshs1,100 per square metre but if you manufacture the same on your own, you will do so at Kshs600 per square metre. You save 40 per cent. Maintenance of cabro road is cheaper. If one part is bad, you remove it and do it again. It has a lifespan of 50 years. It depends on how many tons of weight load you want. If you use your own CDF resources to purchase this machine, you will employ your youths. I am ready to share the idea with hon. Members. Definitely, that is going to be my pilot project in Embakasi. I have already done some research. I am already getting some quotations from India and China. Most importantly, if we are talking of the cost of road construction going to a million shillings per kilometre and then the rains come, and considering the substandard work that is done by our local companies – if we want to give the works to China Road Corporation I have no problem – we are not addressing this issue. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am putting this forward on behalf of seven or eight constituencies, your constituency included. From Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA) to Kasarani and to Babadogo Road, there is serious need for road reconstruction. If you look at Mbagathi Way, Langata and Waiyaki Way, you will appreciate that dual carriage ways have been done. We are losing a lot of money in terms of time and fuel. I need your assistance with the Members of Parliament who border this constituency. It is only eight kilometres long. Looking at Outering Road, apart from the Taj Mall which has come up on the roadside, everybody has kept away. If we dedicate resources to the reconstruction of this road, from JKIA and do four kilometres each year, believe me, the traffic jam will ease. The hon. Member has brought a Motion which is more related to roads in rural areas. Go to Mukuru kwa Njenga and Mukuru kwa Ruben, the roads are bad. At times of emergencies, especially at night, we find that we have no roads. So, I hope that this resolution will also cover slums. I would love to have slums in Kibra, Mukuru, Embakasi, Kayole and Maili Saba, covered. If we sit down in a different place, I will give hon. Members a solution with the cabro-making machines. Let us not buy cabro from people who are out to make money. Let us manufacture them ourselves, employ our own people and develop the county. Let us put importance to Outering Road. Let us give notice to those buildings which are on the road. Let us now join together as Nairobi Members of Parliament and do Outering Road.
Order, hon. Sumra! That is all the time you could have.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Yes, hon. Sakwa John Bunyasi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. It is, indeed, a very timely Motion. I want to thank hon. Steven Kinyanjui for bringing it to the House. One cannot overemphasise the role of infrastructure in activating economic activities in the areas they serve. Obviously, there will be a big benefit. Also, the fact that you can spend some of the money locally means that rural economies will be energised quite apart from the trading effects that might be there. People living near urban centres, where roads are tarmacked, will probably not appreciate the significance of a Motion like this one. In my county, and specifically my constituency, it will be a real opener. We have roads which may link up two constituencies, like the road from Mungatsi to Bungoma/Musikoma, a distance of about 20 kilometres. My neighbour from Bumula is here. I am sure that if we had something like that, it would be a wonderful opener. The road from Mungatsi to Kimaiti and, again, to Bungoma County, is about 20 kilometres long. This would make a huge difference in terms of opening up outlying areas, which have a huge untapped potential. The roads in that area are in such a bad state that you cannot even ride a bicycle on them. There are sections where you have to carry your bicycle to go over them. So, we are talking about roads which get really bad, particularly because of the rains. Hon. Speaker, Sir, even though a distance of 20 kilometres in a place like Marsabit Constituency or Garissa might look small, if we had been doing 20 kilometres annually since Independence in each of those areas, there would be between 1,000 and 1,500 kilometres by now, which would begin to become significant. If we can chip away bit by bit, consistently throughout this period, it will finally make a big difference. Therefore, I strongly support this Motion, to which we can bring amendments. It is fundamentally a very good Motion, which I would like to support and stay focussed on it, so that we can support it all through. I will save some minutes for another hon. Member, because I am a very considerate person. With those remarks, I beg to support.
All right, then give it to your neighbour, hon. Boniface Okhiya Otsiula.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Motion by my friend, hon. Kinyanjui. This is a very important Motion. We have some constituencies in this country where people have never seen a tarmacked road. They only see it on television and perhaps when they are reading newspapers. However small the distance of 20 or 30 kilometres may be, it will go a long way in bringing change into the various constituencies which have been neglected for a long time.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as my colleague for Busia, Nambale has said, we have very important roads linking constituencies and counties like the particular road that hon. Bunyasi has just talked about; the Musikoma-Buyofu-Mungatsi Road. It is a short cut between Bungoma County and Busia County but people have to go all the way to Mumias to be able to connect to Busia County. If this road was actually tarmacked, it would be the shortest road for one to travel between the two counties. So, I want to urge that giving 20 to 30 kilometres each financial year to each constituency is an idea that should be supported. I am sure each hon. Member here will first of all give priority to a road which is passing near or close to his or her home. That is going to be a priority to most of us here. In fact, the former President honourable Mwai Kibaki had ordered that, that particular road which we have mentioned; the Musikoma- Buyofu-Mungatsi Road be tarmacked. That was way back on 1st March 2010 but to date nothing has been done. So, whatever the circumstances, I do not expect that hon. Members should pass this Motion with any reservations. This is a Motion which we must give priority, particularly for us Members of Parliament from Western and Nyanza which areas are predominantly cane growing regions. We need good roads so that we are able to move our agricultural products from the farms to the factories and from the farms to the market centres. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion.
Member for Ndhiwa, I presume you have dropped your request. Order! You must have struck your button twice because I do not see you on the request anymore. All right, with my sympathy therefore I allow you to proceed.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think it must have mistakenly gotten off but thank you very much for sympathising with me. I rise to support this Motion. I think it is a Motion that is timely and well thought out. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion actually is in line with the various provisions of the Kenya Constitution in Articles 25, 26 and Article 43. If you look at them, they give the right to development. For a long time this country has watched development being done in a very skewed manner but right now Kenya, having signed several conventions which is part of our law and also giving rights to Article 43 which makes development a matter of constitutional right, I really think that this sort of Motion is one that makes us operationalise the various arms of the Constitution. It is a good thing. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, several parts of this country have for a long time been left without any single trace of tarmac and this of course has been because the powers that be at particular moments did not take a special interest or cognizance of those various areas. A Motion like this passed into law of course will then help operationalise
Hon. Samuel Gichigi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. Kipipiri, the constituency that I represent, from the days of Uhuru stayed for more than 47 years before we could know what a tarmacked road looked like. I know very many parts of the country suffer the same fate. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one thing that got people or Kenyans excited is the CDF. Going the CDF way when it comes to paved roads is going to provide a solution to the infrastructural problems that we have in this country. I know everybody is talking about equitable distribution of resources. I think this Motion is one of them. I agree that let us remove the ceiling that has been proposed in the Motion. We are also aware that we may require to harmonise a few things because of the resources that may be required to implement this particular decision, but this is the route to go. I think everybody should support the Motion. Save for just a few logistical problems that may face the implementation initially, this is the route to go in future. I support.
Hon. George Muchai.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion and wish to commend Hon. Kinyanjui and assure him that for this Motion, it is not only hon. Members in this House who are speaking about it but it is literally every Kenyan who would like to speak about it. I am a worried person based on what hon. Sumra told this House. I joined hands with his view that it takes the Chinese to come all the way from China to come and construct our roads to the desired standards whereas we have road contractors in this country. I was surprised to hear the Minister for Roads, Mr. Bett, when checking on the development of Thika Road saying that they are responsible for supervising the work that is being done. I wondered how a country that is not able to develop its road infrastructure to the level that the Chinese have done can offer supervision on that same level. This Motion seeks to reduce the cost of transportation in this country in the sense that the cost of repairs of vehicles running on our roads will be brought down in a big way, if we have the desired road infrastructure. If we want to take Kenya to the next level of development, we have to determine and prioritize our areas of development. For us to do that, we must have key indicators. The CEOs in respective roads authorities must have their targets set to ensure that they deliver to Kenyans. I think this Motion is seeking to set those targets when it talks as it does that there be a minimum construction of 20 kilometers of road in each constituency.
What is the purpose of establishing the authorities when you cannot set the targets by which they operate? Apparently, Kenya seems to be the only country in this world that has its priority in terms of development wrong. It seems to allow development to precede planning whereas in other countries, planning precedes development. Look at the example of Dagoretti Corner Shopping center which is one of the oldest shopping centers in this country, to this day, it has not seen the light of tarmacked roads yet it is a very busy commercial centre. I represent a constituency that borders the capital city of Kenya. From the face of it along Naivasha Road, one is bound to think that the level of interconnectivity within the constituency is very smooth but it is to the contrary. I can
Your time is up!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. In my constituency, the only roads that pass there are roads that pass from Nairobi to Kisumu and the road that passes from Nyaribari Masaba going to Bomachoge. Without infrastructure, you cannot do meaningful agricultural development, especially horticulture. You may know that in my constituency, the land sizes are very small and so the type of farming that you can do in areas like Kitale cannot be done in Nyaribari Chache because you are talking of a land size of a quarter of an acre to one acre and a maximum of one acre. So, we live on horticulture, growing bananas, avocadoes and sugarcane. These are perishable items and I have requested in the Budget that we get a cold room. Without roads, you are not going to get them from the village because we are a high rainfall zone where out of 12 months, seven or eight months are raining. This means there is no way you can get your produce to the road. So, this concept of 20 kilometers of bitumen per annum is fantastic. I would rather put it as a minimum and like other speakers have said, we have several areas we can cut and paste. Get money and put into infrastructure. I know that we have been spending a lot of money on flowers in the offices; Kshs6 billion. We have been spending a lot of money on luxuries and we have a lot of wastage. There is leakage in our budget and we should look at all these loopholes, change and put money in roads.
I support this with the view that most of our people in the rural areas are suffering especially when it comes to healthcare. People die from very flimsy diseases. If you are sick and you live about two or three kilometers inside, people are taken to hospital on wheelbarrows in my constituency. When it is raining, God help you that you should get to a place close to a dispensary. However, if we have tarmac, even on a wheelbarrow or bicycle or tuk tuk you can get to hospital and hope to get medicine eventually. Whereas we are talking about other areas where we have serious problems with healthcare, the road network is mandatory because you cannot talk about health if you cannot access medication. I would request that even if the current Budget may not allow, we shift funds to make sure that we try and attain the requirements and expectations of this Motion, of a minimum of 20 kilometers of bitumen per constituency as a starting point. Going forward by the fifth year of this term of Parliament, we should hopefully be thinking about 120 to 140 kilometers of bitumen per constituency.
With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Order, hon. Members! This is obviously a popular Motion but it is an ongoing Motion. You can speak to it when the House resumes.
Hon. Members, we have now come to the end of today’s sitting. The House is, therefore, adjourned to Tuesday, 11th June, 2013, at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 6.30 p.m.