The hon. Members who are the entrance, please walk in.
Hon. Members, there are a number of Communications. The first one is on office accommodation. Hon. Members, on 6th June, 2013, I issued a Communication on the measures the National Assembly was taking to address shortage of accommodation facilities in the National Assembly. I had indicated that negotiations were ongoing between the Government and the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) to have the entire Kenyatta International Conference Centre (KICC) allocated to Parliament in order to provide offices to Members of Parliament. I now wish to report that those negotiations have been concluded and that the National Assembly has been allocated office space at the KICC from the 11th Floor to the 27th Floor.
In addition, parliamentary staff has been relocated from Harambee Plaza to create more space for allocation to Members of Parliament. As renovation and partitioning of offices go on, Members who do not have offices will each be allocated one office at the KICC or the Harambee Plaza through balloting. Officers from the Serjeant-at-Arms Department will assist Members to ballot. This exercise will take place tomorrow, Thursday, 4th July, 2013 at 10.00 a.m. near the reception of the Main Parliament Buildings. In view of the fact that certain offices at the KICC were being occupied by some Government departments, I call for orderly movement and taking over of offices even as the affected Government departments are given alternative accommodation. At least for the time being, every Member will have an office to occupy.
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This is further Communication from the Chair on a matter of lack of decorum and gross disorderly conduct in the House in breach of Standing Orders. Hon. Members, you are all aware that debate in this House in the past one week has not been decorous and the rules of the debate have largely been breached. I am equally concerned at the very fast degeneration in propriety of manners, behavior and speeches. We have witnessed some Members creating actual disorder, using or threatening violence against colleagues and/or abusing their privilege. We have seen behaviour that has bordered on disrespect for the presiding officers during proceedings in Committee of the whole House. Some Members have in the past week exchanged insults in the most despicable of ways and even attempted to rough up colleagues. Other Members even threatened to take away the Mace! This state of affairs, which is unacceptable, will surely erode public confidence and bring the institution of the National Assembly to disrepute.
Hon. Members, I wish to appeal to you to familiarise yourselves with the provisions of Standing Orders regarding rules of debate and order in the House and in the Committee of the whole House particularly Standing Order Nos.98, 102, 103, 104 and 107 - 112 of the National Assembly Standing Orders which should provide you good guidance on the breaches and sanctions that follow. These Orders are designed to ensure that you exercise your privilege of free speech with good sense and good taste, maintaining courtesy of language towards other Members in debate. Personal references, unbecoming language and insults during the debate do not augur well for the House.
Members are reminded of the provisions of Standing Order No. 87(3) which inter
states and I quote: “It shall be out of order to use offence or insulting language whether in respect of Members of the House or public.” One main duty of the presiding officers in the House is to maintain order and if the rules are breached or the situation deteriorates would recourse to removal of a Member from the House for a certain period, or if the situation worsens, the offending Member or Members may be named and suspended from the House altogether. Standing Order No.107 defines “grossly disorderly conduct” as where “a Member concerned creates actual disorder, knowingly raises a false point of order, uses or threatens violence against a Member or other person, persists in making serious allegations without, in the Speaker’s opinion, adequate substantiation, otherwise abuses his or her privileges, deliberately gives false information to the House, votes more than once in breach of these Standing Orders, commits any serious breach of these Standing Orders or acts in any other way to the serious detriment of the dignity or orderly procedure of the House.”
The Speaker or the Chairperson of the Committees is expected to order any Member whose conduct is grossly disorderly to withdraw immediately from the precincts
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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:-
THAT, aware that Khat ( Miraa )is an economic mainstay of many people in Kenya and has led to economic growth and development in the country; noting that the National Authority for the Campaign Against Alcohol and Drug Abuse (NACADA) has continued to campaign against consumption of the commodity and classified Khat ( Miraa ) as a drug; concerned that most countries have banned chewing of Khat ( Miraa )and others are in the process of banning entry of the product into their markets including recommendation of severe penalties against consumers, while others have granted the Government of Kenya a window period to consider the suitability of the product for export; further noting that recent research has established that Khat (Miraa) is not a drug, and therefore
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Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
The Leader of Majority Party.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements to make, one on security sought by the Member for Saboti, the hon. Wafula and the other by the hon. Johnson Sakaja. I will start with the one by hon. Johnson Sakaja on trip to Senegal by the Chief Justice to meet President Obama of the United States. This Statement is from the Judiciary and it is very brief. It says “The Hon. Chief Justice, Dr. Willy Mutunga, received an invitation from the Ambassador of the United States of America to Kenya to attend a meeting in Dakar
Hon. Speaker, first I would like to thank the Leader of the Majority Party for quickly seeking that Statement from the Judiciary. I wish to seek further clarification because the question which I had asked has not been answered. I had mentioned, as you all know, what our Constitution states in Article 160(1), that the Judiciary is supposed to be independent and conduct itself in a manner that shall not be subject to control or direction of any person, least of all, the President of another country that has pronounced itself on ongoing judicial processes in this country. The US Government had stated that the precise reason why the President was not visiting this country, in as much as we are not splitting hairs to the fact that he did not come, was because of an ongoing judicial process, namely, the ICC. So, how would his inviting the head of our Judiciary to meet him impact on the cases? Was he directing our chief justices around Africa on how to deal with such cases if they come before them? Secondly, our relationship with the President of America---
Hon. Sakaja, I want to warn hon. Simba. I have just read the rules of debate in the House. I will not allow you from your place to answer anybody. Please, if you want to ask a question, indicate. We are degenerating. You are the one who is answering him. You are saying that the Chief Justice was being directed. You are breaching the Standing Order No.87. You cannot discuss the conduct of the Chief Justice and that is why I have to pay attention because if anything comes close to that, I must stop anybody. The question he is asking is whether the Chief Justice was being directed and that is why I have to pay attention. So, if you pretend to be answering yes, you are now saying that the Chief Justice was being directed. That is out of order.
Hon. Speaker, secondly and as I was saying, the relationship between this country and the US, especially the relationship with the President of the US is a political relationship. The former Director of Communications for the former Prime Minister stated last weekend in an article “why would Barrack Obama talk to an African judge over the head or the President? A judge who attends such a forum panders to the
Hon. Speaker, I want to thank you for being keen on the clarification. In my legal mind, I do not think that the clarification that is being sought by the Member can be delivered without necessarily having to go into the conduct and to the performance of the functions of the Chief Justice. Secondly, you know the history of our current Chief Justice. When was being interviewed for the job, the issue of gay rights was a major issue. I do not think we can discuss or the Leader of Majority Party can clarify that without necessarily going into the conduct of the Chief Justice. I request your guidance on this matter.
Everybody, including the Leader of Majority Party, is advised against discussing the conduct of the Chief Justice as a person.
Hon. Speaker, I wish to seek further clarification from the Leader of Majority Party in regard to the discussions that were held in Senegal. If you allow me, I just want to read a paragraph of the Third Schedule of our Constitution on the oath of office that the Chief Justice took. It says that:- “(The Chief Justice/President of the Supreme Court, a Judge of the Supreme Court, a Judge of the Court of Appeal, a Judge of the High Court) do (swear in the name
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I think our rules of debate are very clear. Our Constitution is also very clear. The separation of powers between the Legislature and the Judiciary is respected. If you listened keenly, and I am sure you did, to the clarification sought by hon. Linturi it clearly discussed the conduct of the Chief Justice of the Republic of Kenya. Even though I did not know at what point the honeymoon between the Chief Justice and the Jubilee Government ended, I think rules of debate are rules of debate. If hon. Linturi wants us to debate the conduct of the Chief Justice – which we will be glad to do – why can he not be courageous enough and bring a substantive Motion here so that we do that? We will be glad to discuss the conduct and behavior in office of one Justice Willy Mutunga. He should not hide behind raising issues or seeking Statements which even the Leader of Majority Party cannot clarify. He has no capacity to clarify. It is only the Chief Justice who can clarify some of these issues. Hon. Speaker, I request that you rule that the matter that we are debating now is unprocedural and that we ask hon. Sakaja to put his perfect idea in a Motion so that we debate it.
Hon. Speaker, I also join my colleague hon. Mbadi in asking for your further guidance as to the issue that is being sought by my friend, hon. Sakaja. I think that other than the possibility of trying to sneak a discussion and debate on the conduct of the Chief Justice, the nominated Member is also trying to sneak a debate on the conduct of the President of a friendly nation. Hon. Mbadi, I do not think the honeymoon between Jubilee and the Chief Justice is over. I think they are just using the Chief Justice as a shield to discuss the President of a friendly nation. And this is a President who is the most powerful man on earth. Stop pretending there. Know that there was nothing wrong with this.
Hon. Ken Obura, the point you are making, which is the same point hon. Ochieng and hon. Mbadi raised is, indeed--- If you listened to the Statement as read from the Judiciary and the portion which was attributed by the Leader of Majority Party to have been written by the Chief Justice himself, I think it is quite general. If we start digging deep into some of those issues, we will be breaching our own Standing Orders. I have just ruled on this a while ago. So, to the extent that you are going to find out whether the Judiciary wants to get assistance--- Of course even Parliament sometimes, I hear seeks assistance. You know Judiciary and the Legislature are part of the national Government. I will be making a Communication just now to expound on this issue. I do not see anything wrong if the Judiciary or the Legislature wish to engage with each other to seek whatever assistance.
Hon. Speaker, I want to confirm that the Chief Justice went to Senegal in his private capacity. Secondly, that visit has no impact on the ongoing ICC cases. The cases are before the court in the Netherlands. The lawyers there are able. The Chief Justice’s visit has no relevance and no impact. It does not contravene Article 161 of the Constitution. On protocol, the Judiciary is an independent institution. The Chief Justice is not under anybody’s command. He does not get clearance from anybody when he wants to go and attend any function outside this country. On the issue of funding raised by hon. Sakaja, any institution even Parliament may seek funding, but again that funding will come through the national Treasury. There are procedures in Government. Even our county governments can go and seek funding, but the funding must come through the national Treasury and the office of the Solicitor- General. If the Chief Justice in his informal discussion wanted to get more funding, I hope not for the expansion of gay rights, but for other judicial functions, then that is good for our country. On gay rights, Kenyans spoke in 2010 when they passed the Constitution. Kenya is a God fearing nation. We have a culture and religion. We abhor gayism as a country. One of the issues that the American Government was sending across Africa was gay rights. If that, indeed, was the case then I am lucky at least that he did not come to Kenya. This is because Kenyans have shown categorically that they do not believe in those kinds of acts. It is in the Bible and the Quran that communities that went through that kind of behavior were destroyed by God. We stand with our bishops. With regard to hon. Linturi, I said that the Chief Justice went on a private mission and that does not contravene the oath of office as stipulated in the Third Schedule of our Constitution.
Hon. Duale you have another Statement to issue. Please, finish first.
Hon. Speaker, I have two small related Statements on security. One is about insecurity in Saboti Constituency sought by hon. David Wekesa Wafula. The other one is about the insecurity in Mandera, Wajir and Turkana counties.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I have two small related Statements on insecurity; one on insecurity in Saboti Constituency sought by hon. Wekesa and another on security situation in Mandera, Wajir and Turkana counties. I will start with the one of Mandera, Wajir and Turkana. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I wish to issue a Statement about the security situation in Mandera, Wajir and Turkana counties. In the last two months, Mandera and Wajir
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for that clarification but I want to seek more clarifications. Since we signed that agreement, the situation has escalated to an extent that elected leaders from Wajir County, Members of this House, are here today by the grace of God. In that agreement I think we had some specific timelines and sanctions that if something was to happen, the first bullet coming from somewhere, then we had specific sanctions. We deposited that agreement with the President. So what will come out of that? How is the Government going to enforce it on the aggressors? I am told there have been several incidents; that is not the only one since then.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party but despite what he has said, the conflict between Wajir and Mandera, especially Mandera County has been going on for the last two years. Many people have been killed, several schools closed and destroyed, boreholes destroyed but to date nobody has been apprehended. Militia are moving freely in Wajir and Mandera counties with sophisticated ammunitions that are superior to the ones by the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF). This is an independent country and it is the most unfortunate situation that to date, no action has been taken. As my colleague has rightly said, at the weekend when we were going for the peace mission, the lives of the entire Wajir leadership was threatened. We were attacked by the militia in Kenya at the borders of Wajir and Mandera. I would like to seek clarification from the Leader of Majority Party on what happened. Why has it been that for the last two years not a single person has been apprehended? The conflict is supported by many businessmen, militia and political leaders yet to date there is no single person who has been mentioned or taken to court. Can I have clarification from the Leader of Majority Party?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I acknowledge the Statement of the Leader of Majority Party. First, I want to say that, with the blessings of Allah s ubhanawataalah, I survived the attack in Burmaiyo, Wajir County. All of us nearly died. There is no single Kenyan security person at Burmaiyo border point. I was with the entire current and former elected leadership of Wajir County.
Your point of order has been overtaken by events, hon. Abongotum. Proceed, hon. Fatuma.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. It is now my time to speak. I want to confirm to hon. Kamama that the militia have more sophisticated weapons. We have witnessed it. If the Government had more sophisticated weapons than those of the militia, the killings of its citizens by the militia, which have gone on for two years now, would not have continued.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. Could the hon. Member, please, name those weapons? Categorisation of weapons as superior or inferior should be done in such a way that would identify specific weapons used, such as M15 Rifles, AK47 Rifles, bazookas, Anti-Aircraft Guns, et cetera . I would like her to name the weapons used, so that we know that the Kenya Army was using G3 Rifles or Mark4 Rifles whereas the militia were using AK47 Rifles.
Hon. F.I. Ali, please, just seek clarification because the area you are venturing into is going to be complicated. As you can see, hon. (Gen. Nkaissery) is getting agitated.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for that direction. Definitely, I do not want to be an expert on weaponry. I only wanted to share with hon. Members the serious scenario we had and show that one can easily die in the hands of militia, especially in the northern Kenya region.
What do you want clarified, hon. Fatuma?
Hon. Speaker, when we went to Wajir County, Tarbetu Constituency and Wajir East Constituency, we found that almost all the schools had been closed down. There were no children in school. Teachers were present and ready to teach. They had not taken part in the ongoing teachers’ strike but they could not teach because of the aggression from Mandera. The students fled with their parents to neighbouring areas.
So, what do you want clarified?
Hon. Speaker, I want to know what the Government is doing to ensure that the students go back to school. I also want the Leader of Majority Party to tell us what the Government is doing to provide security in that area. When we toured the area, there was no presence of Government.
That is enough, hon. Fatuma. We will take one more clarification request on that Statement. We have a Statement on Trans Nzoia. So, let us allow the Leader of Majority Party to respond in a consistent manner.
Proceed, hon. Mohamed Ibrahim Elmi.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I am going to seek a very simple clarification, so that the House can understand that it is not the whole of the two counties that are completely on fire. The fighting between the two clans is happening in Mandera. The clashes have spilled over to Wajir. It was very clear in our agreement with the Government that the officers that were to be transferred were those who hail from Mandera. We have another security problem in Wajir, namely, Al Shabaab, although the local security officers have so far done very well. We managed to recover many bombs and arrest many Al Shabaab fighters. So, we must safeguard that gain. There has never been a community attack from Mandera in Wajir, apart from the other areas that were attacked by the militia. We have managed to restrain the people in Wajir. Could the Leader of Majority Party assure us that what has been said in that Statement is not what we had agreed upon?
Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, there are two hon. Members by the name of Abass in the House. One of them is the Member for Ijara, while the other one is the Member for Wajir Town. The hon. Member to whom you gave the Floor happens to be the Member for Ijara.
Having said so, I want to totally agree with the leadership of the northern Kenya region, including hon. Abass of Ijara, hon. Fatuma, hon. Elmi and hon. Abass of Wajir Town. The matter at hand is serious. I am sure that the leadership of that region will confirm that we had agreed to provide leadership. We cannot allow innocent women and children to be butchered by their own people. It is very shameful and immoral. As the
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, protect me. Hon. Kaluma should know that he has to wait for the microphone.
Proceed, hon. Kaluma.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I am seeking your direction on the clarifications that we seek, as a House. We usually seek clarifications from the Leader of Majority Party. Traditionally, we send him to the various Government agencies, as the link; to bring us information. I wonder what further clarifications he can be giving on his own, having brought a written communication from whichever Government agency we sent him to; without referring back to those agencies? Are we being fed on his imaginations or thinking?
Hon. Speaker, this is a matter which should be addressed, if we are going to take the issue of Statements and clarifications very seriously. It is time the Chair gave guidance on a matter like this one. If there are matters we are calling “clarifications”, my thinking is that he should note them down and refer them back to the relevant Government Departments, so that we can have tangible details we can work upon as a House, through the relevant Committees.
Hon. Members still insist on seeking clarifications from the Leader of Majority Party after the Statement has been read out. Of course, the assumption is that the Leader of Majority Party, apart from the Statement that he reads out, has also got some briefing in a style that is reminiscent of years gone by. I am sure that hon. Anyango could tell you how it used to happen. However, you are right and I agree with you. This is a matter that we, as a House, must really get seized of and make a decision one way or the other on how we want to proceed. However, I can see many experienced Members want to seek further clarifications. So, let the Leader of Majority Party clarify that.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to clarify that I am not a messenger. What I am doing is spelt out under Article 108 of the Constitution. I thought that hon. Kaluma is a lawyer and can do better unless he is a back street lawyer!
Secondly, for clarification, I can reply even on what I have read. So, clarification does not mean that you go back. A Member can seek clarification on what he was maybe not paying attention to.
Having said that, militias are there and I think the Government has a responsibility under the Constitution--- That is what they were discussing. What Hon. Elmi said is true. The problem is in Mandera County and not in Wajir County. AlShabaab is another big issue that needs to be discussed another day and not today. Of course, the Government has said, and we will pass the information that arrest must be made. However, I am sure that even hon. Members of this august House have recorded statements with the police. I am also sure that, that is part of the on-going investigation to make sure that anybody who is a businessman, a politician, a community elder or a militia and is involved in this heinous act in Mandera must be brought to book.
Schools and roads must be opened and normalcy must be brought to the people of Mandera County. Under the Constitution, that is the function of the Government and it cannot run away from it.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I have a similar view as hon. Kaluma but for purposes of this business, I want to seek clarification from the Leader of Majority Party. The function of any Government or the cardinal responsibility of any Government is to protect the lives and properties of its citizens.
What has been happening in Mandera County over the last two years, and more so over the last three months, is something that should not be allowed to happen in the midst of any civilized nation. The heads of these criminal gangs are known to the intelligence. This country is endowed with one of the best intelligence networks in the world. Scorched earth policy has not worked for the heads of these criminal gangs because they have destroyed, they have maimed and raped. Literally, they have killed very many people in the last three months. The entire leadership of Wajir County is alive today by the grace of God. I was stuck in the village for three hours waiting to join my colleagues from my constituency. Had it not been for the services of one great chief who had a satellite phone and brought the issue to our attention; hon. Sane who is seated here, Senator Halima and I, all of us would have been dead.
The Government did not act when innocent people were being killed. The Government did not act when there was attempt to---
Do you want the Leader of Majority Party to hear that or do you want to seek clarification?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to build my---
We cannot use this process for debate!
This is the clarification, hon. Speaker, Sir. On Monday, last week, we appeared before none other than the Chief Executive of the Republic Kenya, His Excellency President Uhuru Kenyatta, and we deposited a commitment signed by the entire leadership of North Eastern Province under the auspices of North Eastern
The Leader of Majority Party, respond to that issue briefly because I have to give---
On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir.
What point of order, hon. Nooru? I will look with disfavor anybody that continues to attend the House without his or her card.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, for the purpose of correcting the record of this House, the Members have a right to seek clarification. However, I want to correct the impression that is being created here. The leaders from Wajir were not attacked in Mandera but they were attacked in Wajir. So, they should be able to tell us who attacked them. They should not pass the buck to Mandera. The issue of clashes in Mandera and Wajir is known to everybody and all Kenyans. However, the impression that is being created that the leaders were attacked from Mandera is not right. I thought they were in Wajir and we were in Mandera. All the leaders in Mandera went to Mandera while all the leaders in Wajir went to Wajir to talk to their people. So, I do not know how they went to Mandera where they were attacked.
Obviously, hon. Nooru, you were not on a point of order. However, I have sympathy to the issues being discussed. These are matters of security because human life and property have been lost. Otherwise, I do not believe in this process. You see you are engaging in a lot of debate. Obviously, Hon. Keynan talked about that and now hon. Nooru feels something different. Maybe the Leader of Majority Party will respond to the point by hon. Keynan; we will come to the other point. There is another Statement sought by hon. Wakhungu, that I am aware of.
Hon. Speaker, we should not politicize this problem in Mandera County. We must take politics out of it. I think the leaders in that region must lead from the front, and make sure that death, destruction and displacement of innocent people is stopped. I agree with hon. Keynan that leaders gave a commitment, whose days ended on Monday. The elders’ meeting that took place will address everything.
This august House has a very powerful committee known as the Committee on Administration and National security. I want that Committee to be seized of the Mandera matter and investigate it. I want you to order that Committee to report to the House
Very well. As you know, the Speaker can only refer upon being moved. The hon. David Wafula, ask for clarification.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. The fact that Muroki Market was under siege for about three hours is disturbing. Muroki Market is between Saboti Police Patrol Base and Kapretwa Administration Police (AP) Camp. This is the third time Muroki Market is being attacked and the policemen are aware of it. Why were they ill equipped to handle this situation at Muroki Market?
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I am the Member of Parliament for Endebess which is also in Trans Nzoia and Saboti is my neighbouring constituency. I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for the answers he has given. In his Statement, he said there is one Officer Commanding Police Division (OCPD) who has been posted to Kwanza and another to Saboti. The one posted to Kwanza is stationed at Endebess and I was able to see him over the weekend and what I realised is that Endebess initially was “End of the Base”. The houses there are the oldest in that place. So, what I want to seek from the Leader of Majority Party is the following: You have posted an OCPD to an end of the base where he is supposed to be in charge of a certain number of officers under his command. Do you have any plans to ensure that housing, vehicles, personnel and equipment are going to be upgraded to proper standards for an OCPD to be able to function effectively? Thank you.
Hon. Ferdinand Kevin Wanyonyi.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I stand up with a very heavy heart. I came from the weekend and the situation in Trans Nzoia is getting out of hand as I speak. This is because even one hon. Member of Parliament from Trans Nzoia had to be whisked out of her house in the middle of the night and she is here. She can testify to
Honestly, we have some communication to make. Seek clarification hon. Wanyonyi.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I just want him to clarify one issue before I sit. There are people who are in hospital today. There are burial expenses today. Does the Leader of Majority Party have an answer on whether the Government is going to assist in mortuary expenses?
Fourthly as I sit, I think the problem in Trans Nzoia is lack of personnel. He has not mentioned anything to do with personnel, whether there is going to be additional staff or not. I want him to give us an answer on that. Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Korir Wesley.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I stand here with a deep heart because of insecurity in Trans Nzoia. I come from Cherangany and one thing I would like to ask the Leader of Majority Party is: This country depends so much on the police. We think the police will solve all our problems but there is one component of security that I think the Government is not doing enough in it and that is the civilians. What is the Government doing to involve the civilians on maintaining security? Does the Government have a hotline that civilians can call and report? This is because these people committing crimes live with these civilians. They eat with them. They know them but when you ask the civilians why they have not reported these criminals, they are afraid of being victimised. What will the Government do to make sure that those reports and information that civilians have can be reported to the relevant authorities?
Another thing is that I came from Cherangany this weekend and when I went to the police station to ask, the police station told me that they have cars but they do not have fuel. They said that they are given Kshs15,000 for three months. That will not even buy gas for them. So, what is the Government doing to make sure that more money---
On a point of order, hon. Speaker, Sir. As you have witnessed, we are getting it all wrong. From past records, there was a minimum of three Questions every day including Wednesday mornings in the Tenth Parliament on security. The burden we are putting on the Leader of Majority Party is a wrong burden and he should stop pretending that he is capable of shouldering it. All Questions should be addressed to the relevant Departmental Committee even if they are ten Questions per day. The
Very well spoken hon. Anyango, but Members seem to think that they are seeking action. That appears to be the thing because I have ruled on this in the past and unless these matters are canvassed before the relevant House Committees, which then will produce a report here, we are not doing much. Indeed, just like you have seen the Treasury mandarins sit here as proposed by Hon. Otieno, so that they know what it is that you are saying. But the Members seem to imagine that if you speak here, you appear to be putting the Leader of Majority in some corner and you are getting something done. It is going to take quite some time. Of course, it is very painful what hon. Wanyonyi has said and everybody, you witnessed attacks and people have been killed. Obviously, I can understand the feelings of Members, but until we also appreciate that the way to go about this in this dispensation is different from what we are doing, we will not achieve much. Your own Committee on Implementation then will have something on which to act; undertakings given by the Government, then you can seek their implementation.
Hon. Speaker, the issue of security is very important. We have sung this song in this country for many years. That is why everybody is very interested in knowing what the Government is doing to make sure that security is enhanced in this country. Also, we need to know what the Government is doing to hire more police officers. The ratio of civilian to police officer in this country is below what is required.
That is debate, please.
Hon. Speaker, I want to thank the Leader of Majority for attempting to answer the questions. I also sympathize with the situation he is in. The security issue in Trans Nzoia County has been deteriorating every day. I asked a similar question two months ago and nothing has been done. Specifically when are we going to have a police station in Kiminini? Two, specifically, when are we going to get vehicles for patrol? I had a meeting with the Inspector-General and I asked this question two months ago and I was given the same answers, but so far, nothing has been done. Security is deteriorating. He comes from the Jubilee Government of kusema na kutenda . Can we see this action please?
Hon. Speaker, the Statement on Saboti was very categorical and arrests have been made. I want to say it very categorically to hon. Dalmas Otieno that this is not a Government that hides information. I have never pretended because I have never served in Governments where people used to pretend, maybe he did in a
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Mwinyi, you are out of order! The Speaker does not issue cards. Please go and look for the cards wherever they are issued.
Hon. Speaker, that is not on the HANSARD.
Hon. Mwinyi, you know you are out of order? I have just read out your name.
Hon. Speaker, some measures were put in place, but hon. Wakhungu was not there. These include having in place the County Commissioner, the up-scaling and giving of equipment and vehicles to Gitwamba, a contingent of GSU officers were deployed there and a squad from the Special Crime Unit. Plans are underway also to put up two police stations. We are beginning a financial year and this will be done. With regard to hon. Korir’s request, there is something in the Constitution called the county community policing which is supposed to be formed between the county government and the National Police Service and this is underway. With regard to hon. Wakhungu, I do not seek sympathy because before the elections, I knew the winning team and I joined it. So, maybe he is the one who needs sympathy. Under the Budget that we have approved as a House, there is Kshs4.5 billion for equipment and vehicles. There are enough personnel to be recruited and enough money for intelligence gathering. Hon. Speaker, you have made it very categorical in your ruling and the only problem is that the Members do not want to read the Communication from the Chair. There are issues that are pertinent that Members need from the Government and if you take them to a Committee, they will take three weeks. There are issues that can be presented to the House and you have made that very clear. So, the ball is in the Members’ hands. There are issues that can go to Committees and can be better executed when the Cabinet Secretary in charge is interrogated and a report is tabled before the House. There are issues that are profiled as of national importance that a Member of Parliament cannot wait for a Committee to submit a report for one month. But, if the Members could read the Communication made by the Speaker very clearly, then we would not have all these. As the representative of the Jubilee Government in the House, we are ready. We do not hide facts. Facts were hidden when there was a Government of two coalitions, but this Government, under the new Constitution, will put all the facts on the table. If this is not factual, Parliament has the oversight role to investigate. The power to investigate, legislate and represent our people lies in this House.
Hon. Members, I have the following Communication to make on the status of Bills recently published as relates to Article 110 of the Constitution.
Hon. Members, I will continue. Thirdly, there are those functions that are vested in the concurrent jurisdiction of both the national Government and the county government by virtue of Article 186(2) of the Constitution. These functions include disaster management, agriculture and health policies where they touch on the county function of agriculture and county health. Fourthly, there are those functions that are not directly mentioned by name in the Fourth Schedule and Article 186(3) contemplates that these functions are exclusively vested in the national Government to the exclusion of the county government. Hon. Members, it is clear from the wording of Article 186 as read together with Article 185(2) of the Constitution that the national legislature comprising the National Assembly and the Senate cannot and should not, except in exceptional circumstances contemplated by Article 186(4), legislate on any of the functions that are exclusively vested in the county governments. Legislation in these areas is a preserve of the county assemblies under Article 185(2) of the Constitution. The national legislature can therefore only proceed to legislate in four areas:- (a) Where the function is exclusively vested in the national Government pursuant to Article 186(1) of the Constitution; (b) Where the function is concurrently vested in the national Government and the County government pursuant to Article 186(2);
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to stand on a point of order to seek your guidance on the matter of the report by the Committee on Delegated Legislation that was tabled towards the end of the Tenth Parliament. The recommendations of the report have been a subject of discussion especially on the ongoing tussle between the Government and the Kenya National Teachers Union (KNUT) on the allowances and benefits for teachers. The recommendations contained there read as follows:- “The Committee hereby recommends that the House urges the Minister for Education to degazette the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) amendment order of 2003 gazetted in the Kenya Gazette Supplement No.17 of 21st February, 2003 as Legal Notice No.16 of 2003.” In seeking your direction in the matter, I met with the TSC together with the Union and the Union clearly said that the House was supposed to degazette the legal notice. I sought advice from the former Chair of the said Committee and I learnt from the report that it was tabled but it was not adopted by Parliament. Therefore, the Departmental Committee on Education, Science and Technology would like to get direction from you as to whether the Government is bound by such a matter before the House even though the matter has not been adopted by the House.
I think it will require my looking at the records but, of course, without prejudice to what the record would show, even Bills published also lapse with the expiry of Parliament. The Clerk should confirm this by tomorrow. Next Order!
Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on Statements sought, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), regarding the implementation status of the court ruling on Petition No.8 of 2013, regarding failure by the Attorney- General to release payment to one Otieno Mak’Onyango, as awarded by court, and on the Government’s commitment to the International Criminal Court (ICC), laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 25th June, 2013.
Are you on a point of order, hon. Amina Abdalla?
Yes, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, I rise on a point of order regarding the Motion that is being moved by the Chairman of the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. I want a clarification as to whether the Motion covers the entire contents of the Report. I am seeking the clarification because the Motion only talks about the payment to Mr. Mak’Onyango Otieno and the issue of the ICC, whereas this Report includes a recommendation on the recruitment of Commissioners of the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). So, the Report he has tabled has more statements than the Motion he is moving. Would it, therefore, be in order for him to move debate based on a Report which has a matter that is not canvassed in the Motion?
Hon. Chepkonga, what is your reaction?
Hon. Speaker, it is unfortunate that my colleague is not a lawyer. If she was a lawyer, she would have realised that the court ruling on Petition No.8 of 2013 is about the matter of the TSC. So, it is in regard to the Statement sought by hon. Abdi Saney. That is the import of the Petition.
Hon. Chepkonga, we cannot hear you.
Hon. Speaker, my height is the problem.
Hon. Chepkonga, you appear to be in a different type of trouble. Many people are vertically challenged.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I have no intention of reducing my height. I think I have advantage over hon. Amina when it comes to height. What I was saying is that the matter of the TSC is covered under the status of the court ruling on Petition No.8 of 2013. The petition is about the TSC. These are matters which were referred to the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The Attorney- General was summoned, and he appeared before the Committee to shed light on the Statement requests that were raised by hon. Members of this House. The Report has already been circulated. The request was made, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c), after which the Chairperson of this Committee was directed to respond. We are responding in good time.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Chepkonga, who was seconding your Motion.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am supposed to be seconded by hon. (Ms.) Kajuju who is a Member of the Committee so that we can expedite and discuss the Motion.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to second the Motion that has been moved in this House, and state that the issues that have been raised in terms of the three questions that were before the Committee have been appropriately addressed as per the observations and recommendations of the Committee.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. Being a Member of that Committee, we sat and made recommendations that appear crucial.
On the issue of the Teachers Service Commission (TSC), it is only fair that the list of the two nominees that is with the President be considered. On the issue of hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango and the unpaid award by the High Court, this is not just an issue of this hon. Member alone. We are aware that because of the Government Proceedings Act, which prohibits anybody to attach any Government, most Kenyans do not get their awards paid even when the courts have clearly awarded them compensation.
On this issue, we also noted that the hon. Attorney-General was not competent enough. He tried to explain but he is not the paymaster. So, he could not make the payment and he was not clear on how he could make those payments. It was for that reason that the Committee decided to summon the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Co- ordination of National Government to confirm that hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango will be paid his dues.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, on the issue of the ICC, we all know that the cases are before the court and they have their own diaries. The indictees have been appearing and, therefore, there is no reason why anybody should say that Kenya is not committed to the proceedings in the ICC.
I support this Motion.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Even as I support this Motion to adopt the Report, I have misgivings on the performance of this Committee. We had three questions and the Committee decided to meet the Attorney-General, drew its observations from one meeting with him and decided to bring a Report to this House.
Hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango is alive and he is in the country. We did not see any contact between the Committee and him. We also do not see any contact between the Committee and the Cabinet Secretary who is supposed to make the payment. It, therefore, means that this question was supposed to be given to the Leader of Majority Party to go and ask the Attorney-General in order to bring an answer to the House instead of giving it to the Committee.
We have the issue of the ICC. The Committee did not make any effort to contact the ICC to hear from it whether it is being facilitated or not, and whether it feels that the country is co-operating or not. They met the Attorney-General and decided to make recommendations.
On the issue of the TSC, the Committee made no effort to meet that Commission. It also made no effort to meet the President to understand why he cannot get the two new names and send them to the National Assembly. There is also the selection panel. If this Committee was out to do a proper job, it should have gone to that selection panel and understood the intricacies around this appointment. The TSC is very important and we cannot just scratch the surface on a matter that is dire as the appointment of the TSC commissioners.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, even as I support, I would like you to rule that this Committee goes further and ensures that hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango gets his compensation. It should go ahead and investigate whether the President will bring the two
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am a Member of this Committee and I would like to say that even as a Member of this Committee with our very able Chairperson who is seated there, justice delayed is justice denied. There has to be a way in which the whole House operates. On the bigger picture about the Report and the work of the Committee, it is urging, for instance, the Leader of Majority Party to report on matters which we cannot implement or the answers that we get back which cannot be held with full force of the law.
Hon. Mak’Onyango’s right to be paid is an important issue and the complications and the doctrines that exist in attaching Government property right now even through an award has been made for him is a very tricky matter. So, while he languishes and suffers, I really wish we could move quickly, and that includes me as a Member of this Committee, to summon and get the relevant Cabinet Secretary to get down to the bottom of it so that this matter is history. The most important thing, however, is that it is not just hon. Mak’Onyango who is here. There are hundreds of Kenyans in this country who have cases against the Government for wrongful prosecution, treatment, misdemeanors and mistakes by Government officials, who have been awarded compensation but the Government does not pay them.
I think two things are important here; the Government has to budget for liability. That it will be held liable and has to pay in a just and quick manner the Kenyans who sue the Government and win such cases. However, we found out, as a Committee, that the Government does not really budget for such liabilities. So, year in, year out, you will hear a Cabinet Secretary say: “Yes, I agree there is an award for Mak’Onyango in which we are supposed to pay Kshs20 million but I do not have a vote head for that amount of money to pay him.” I think it comes back to us, as leaders of the country in our budgeting process to see what we can do in terms of advising and making sure that the Executive and officials of the Government do their job properly so that they do not expose the Government to liability, prosecution and loss of huge monies when judgment is passed against it. This is because that is taxpayers’ money that we are protecting as much as we are fighting for the rights of citizens who have been mistreated or treated poorly by Government officials and have sought justice in our courts. We must also make sure that the Government officials are trained and competent to carry out their duties so that they do not put the Government in jeopardy and liability situations like these. So, those are the two key issues I have been talking about that I think we need to think about carefully and as a member of this Committee I take responsibility for it. I know with our able Chair and other devoted Committee members we will push to see what we can get as a commitment and a quick timeline for hon. Mak’Onyango. He is not the only one, there are others who were mentioned to us. These are people like Mwandawiro Mghanga who have got cases and are suffering from years of torture in prison and wrongful treatment by past governments of this country. We must fix those historical mistakes.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the question that I am really concerned with on this report and I want to bring here even as a member of the Committee is the question of ICC. On the matter of the ICC to us as Kenyan leaders and citizens, the question we must ask ourselves is: Will the ICC process bring justice to the regular Kenyans who
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): The Chairperson on the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology, hon. Sabina Wanjiru Chege.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to appreciate the Report from the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and of course my interest is on the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) and about the commissioners. I have seen the recommendation where the Committee got it right, to actually get the list resubmitted to Parliament based on the fresh list of already shortlisted candidates. It is important for the Chair and his Committee to know that already some of these positions have been advertised. I think the same day that this Report was tabled in this Parliament these positions were advertised. I would like to seek further clarification from the Chair on the way forward because the Kamunge Panel is still on. They might decide to recruit new candidates while we know that in that list that was tabled in Parliament and then rejected, there were candidates who had qualified but their names never saw the light of the day. Their names were never tabled in this House. So, I would still encourage the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs to actually find out where that process is and if it is still ongoing, to be paused for justice to be done to the candidates who had already been shortlisted. From the shortlisted candidates for the position of the Chair, we already have two names that were never tabled in this House. We have other names for the position of commissioners and currently you know TSC has so many challenges. With one commissioner, they are not able to move. There are so many decisions that need to be made by TSC but this cannot be done if we do not have commissioners. We only have one commissioner who the House approved and also the court said the process was fairly done. Let the Office of the President, and I hope this is through the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, bring the names to Parliament having considered gender, regional balance and merit.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. What informs my decision is that when you look at this HCC No.845 of 2003, between Otieno Mak’Onyango and Anthony Njung’u, this innocent Kenyan was charged and prosecuted maliciously. He was arrested and prosecuted and detained for no reason at all. This is not the only Kenyan that has faced such problems in this country. We have other Kenyans who in view of the political positions that they took in those early years of the 90s, they found themselves behind bars for reasons that were not warranted.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion with a lot of reservations, with special interest in the TSC issue that was raised in Parliament. This country is undergoing a crisis in the education sector. Therefore, my expectation from this Committee; it was obliged by the Parliamentary Rules and Procedures to have carried out a thorough job. I am completely disappointed as to why the Committee never took time to summon the TSC team and hear their version of the story and also any of the Commissioners. We know that Commissioner Tirop is currently in office. Why was any TSC Commissioner or team never given an opportunity to appear and give a version of what has been happening? Again, I also note with exception that Kamunge, who is the Chair of the selection panel was also not given an opportunity to appear before this Committee to give his version. Therefore, I want to echo the sentiments of my colleague who has said that this does not give a complete version of exactly what is happening in the education sector. We know that the TSC has a constitutional mandate to deal with all matters relating to teachers. The current strike that is going on in this country requires a lot of input from the TSC as the employer of the teachers. When you look at it, you find that there are certain issues that we need to be very careful with. As Parliament, our work is to ensure that the right procedures are followed in this. When the first list was rejected, names were submitted here and were also rejected. We need to take note that when these nominees have been rejected, as far as the Teachers Service Commission Act is concerned, if any name has been rejected twice, it cannot be resubmitted to this Parliament. Sections 5, 6 and 12 of the Teachers Service Commission Act give these powers. Issues pertaining to education in this country are being taken casually. I would request the Chair of this Committee that they should have done a thorough job because we needed to get proper information regarding what exactly is ailing this sector. We need these Commissioners as early as yesterday to execute their duties and give the TSC the mandate to work.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am the one who sought this Statement from the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The issues sought touch on the law. It is perfect that it is the Attorney-General who ought to have been consulted with regard to the Statement I sought. I asked three questions: One, why the court ruling was not implemented in light of the remaining two vacancies for members of the Commission. It all amounted to the interpretation of the TSC Act and we felt that the Attorney-General is best placed to advise Government institutions with regard to matters of law. Two, I wanted to know why the State Law Office is not fulfilling its constitutional mandate. After names were rejected in Parliament, it was him to advise because we had problems. We had received so many correspondences from different Government institutions and as a result we realized that it is only the Attorney-General who can advise the Government, particularly TSC being a constitutional office, as to what they should do next. Today, as we speak, the constitutionality of the TSC is questionable. The Commission has only one commissioner by the name Mr. Tirop and yet the Constitution stipulates that there must be a minimum of three commissioners for any constitutional commission to operate. I have presented three different documents some emanating from the Attorney-General. They were tabled before the Committee in regard to what the TSC should do in recruiting the remaining two commissioners. The Attorney-General’s letter dated 30th May, 2013 is clear and I feel is elaborate and it is within the TSC Act. Equally, there was a court judgment on 25th March, 2013 in regard to a petition filed by one Abdi Sitar challenging the appointment of the second name that was approved by this House. It is clear that the TSC Act is being violated. I feel that the advert that was placed on 25th June is in disregard of the TSC Act and it violates the court’s ruling, the Committee’s Report and the Attorney-General’s advice. I, therefore, seek guidance in the process of--- The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology should direct the selection panel to stop the advert and the subsequent recruitment of the commissioners. This is because the Act is precise. The Committee should ask the President to go back to the old list and pick two nominees.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. If those who are closer to power like Otieno Mak’Onyango can be denied their rights, what about a Turkana who was expelled in 1982 when there was a coup de tat. Some of them were taken to court and found not guilty. However, they were expelled from their jobs. If there is any justice that we need to do then it is to remember those who are now in Turkana leading very terrible lives. These are innocent people, but they were suspended from their jobs. How I wish the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs collected all the names of the people who were affected from 1982. This way those who are in Turkana would stand to benefit.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. However, there are issues that I think are not very clear. The question of TSC is of interest. At the moment, we have the teachers’ strike going on. We also have a vacuum in the leadership of the TSC. There was that panel that came up with the shortlist. The names that were shortlisted were not forwarded. It appears like there are other undercurrents, otherwise what is the basis for having people who are qualified and then contravening the very Act? The Government should take responsibility and obey the law. Those particular officers should follow the law. There should be no further interview carried out because that will be in contravention of this. We need to have the effective chairperson of the TSC and then other commissioners so that the TSC plays its rightful role in terms of guiding teachers. With regard to the Mak’Onyango issue, I think it is fair that the Government also takes responsibility. If this person was awarded, he should be paid. With regard to the ICC issue, I do not know who the ICC is serving. Even for the citizens of this Republic who have been taken to the ICC, even if the case proceeds, for sure, it will not serve the interests of Kenyans. Maybe it will serve the interests of others. Although the Government has its obligations to keep peace, the ICC should give us a break. They should allow Kenyans to continue with their own lives.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. I support this particular Report for adoption. I would like to request my colleagues not to castigate Members of this Committee in the manner that they have actually done. This is because the Report should be read in continuum. This Report has annexes. The annexes fill up the spaces that might be in the body of the Report. On the first aspect of the TSC, we must appreciate two things. The Attorney- General’s matter concerning the TSC’s Secretary; Lengoiboni is very elaborate. There are two aspects in that letter and two things ought to happen. First, there was a list of nominees that was supposed to have been filled before 14th June. The Attorney-General’s letter in paragraph four answers this issue. It says in part:
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wanted to raise the attention on the recommendation of the Committee and from the contributions from hon. Members, they have recommended that the President should draw two names of nominees from the list that was prepared by the selection panel and submit to the
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Is it an amendment or a point of order?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is an amendment.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You can propose your amendment to the Clerks.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am happy that the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education, Science and Technology has finally got wind and direction in terms of how we should proceed on this matter on education. I am happy that we should expedite this issue of the TSC so that we have commissioners in office so that teachers can have people to negotiate with because as it is, one commissioner cannot negotiate with them and our children are out of classes because of various reasons. I also hope that the Government will pay them their dues as per Legal Notice No.534. Since I had finished contributing on that particular matter, I wanted to speak to the last issue on the ICC. Whereas it is true that Kenya has met its obligations in terms of cooperating with the ICC, both domesticating the ICC statute and also cooperating with the prosecutor and several other persons in terms of the investigations that are ongoing, it comes to a time as a country where we must appreciate--- The side of the Government supported an international local tribunal. When it comes to issues of crimes against humanity and the injustices that Kenyans watched, we really think and I believe that the best way to go is, for example, to copy what the Rwandese did. In terms of reconciliation for communities---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. On the matter of the TSC, the hon. Member said that the selection panel should go to the list that had already been forwarded here and get a name. But if you go to the TSC Act, Cap.12, it says: “If the National Assembly rejects any or all of the subsequent nominees submitted by the President---”
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Is it a point of order or information to the hon. Member?
It is a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker because I wanted to get clarity from the speaker in terms of the information he is giving to this House.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Can you clarify the information?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Member is asking me to clarify and that is why I behoove hon. Members to read the Report in its entirety without castigating Members of the Committee.
If you look at the last page of the Report which is an attachment by the AG copied to, amongst others, Mr. Francis Kimemia and Prof. Godia, the seventh paragraph of that passage reads very well and it is a legal opinion. It says: “The decision of the court invalidated only the second… submitted to the National Assembly but did not affect the entire selection process including the constitution of the selection panel so as to require setting up of a new selection panel for the already existing vacancies.” That is the best it
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is up! Yes, hon. (Ms.) Kipchoim!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am not ready for now.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): If you are not ready, please, learn how to use the technology.
Proceed, hon. Kabando wa Kabando.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity. I rise to support the Report of this Committee. In doing so, I would like to accept that I have not completely internalised the issue of the TSC recommendations but I understand that it has engaged in a continued discussion. Therefore, I will limit myself to the two issues raised; namely, that of compensation for Mak’Onyango and Kenya’s commitment to the ICC cases.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it needs a serious understanding of the journey that Kenya has taken to arrive where we are today. One needs to appreciate the debts of the denials and the suffering of individuals who took the bold step of engaging in competition with a totalitarian regime. There can never be enough material compensation for individuals who have been affected physically and psychologically. As I was driving through the Central Business District (CBD) this morning, I saw a former Member of Parliament, who is a professor I know very well. He must have gone through a lot of trauma because of certain activities subjected to him by a previous regime. He is a professor of a very unique PhD in science. Due to a person’s courage to say “I did this”, he is subjected to certain inhuman activities that traumatise him to the extent that he feels completely alienated from society. We cannot compensate such persons enough, either physically or materially.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have been saying a lot of things here. We have seen questions being raised for compensation of individuals who have circumvented procedures in business, employment and even in international contracting. The basic thing that we are obliged to do, as a country, is really to appreciate our own individuals who have done things that are very beneficial to the collectiveness of the sovereign society that is Kenya. I know hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango, who has spent a lot of his time in the Parliamentary Library. He is still a journalist despite his advanced age and what
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Yes, hon. Fatuma Ibrahim-Ali.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion. In particular, I want to make reference to the part that deals with the
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is the Hon. Member really in order to insinuate that the Government is ignoring rulings when we know very well that most of the rulings were made during the previous Government? The Government is very young, and I do not think that there is a single ruling that the Government has neglected or refused to honour. I think the Hon. Member is out of order to state that the Government is ignoring any such advice.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu: The hon. Member contributing, please put your points in order. However, continue because you are not speaking on behalf of the Government.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. My points were very comprehensive. I want to refer the Member to the advice of the Attorney- General that I have referred to. The Attorney-General is the Principal Legal Advisor to the Government. This includes the former Government and the current Government.
If this Government was committed to the rule of law, it should have directly taken in the advice of the Principal Legal Advisor who is the Attorney-General. I think the letter of the Attorney-General is very clear that he has advised the Government that the appointment of the remaining position of commissioners to the TSC should be done; that is in terms of referring to the list of the panel which I have referred to. I want to refer the hon. Member to that Report which clearly states that.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, I request this Parliament to bring sanity to this country because we totally disregard laws and advice from legal statutory offices including institutions, commissions and the Attorney-General’s office. This case is a miscarriage of justice. This is because people who have been in office as commissioners are out of the job which they rightly qualified to be appointed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to support this Motion.
The recommendations on the TSC and the ICC are very fair. However, this Committee that is composed of very good legal minds is not very fair to the former hon. Member, hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango. This is because the Committee recommended that the Cabinet Secretary will be invited to appear before this Committee again so that he can say when hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango will be paid his dues. I think the Committee rushed to bring this Report to this House. At least, it should have met the Cabinet Secretary so that he could give an undertaking as to when hon. Otieno Mak’Onyango will be paid his dues.
I would like the Chairperson or a Member of this Committee like hon. Kajuju to give an undertaking as to when they will meet the Cabinet Secretary so that this Kenyan can get justice. The lawyers say that justice delayed is justice denied but the Committee is further delaying the release of this money to this Kenyan. Other Kenyans have been given such award.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I was having a very good afternoon today until I saw the initials “ICC” on this Report. I want to commend the Committee for doing a good job. However, over time, some of us have grown very sick about the ICC issue. I do not see any value for us, as a House or as a country to keep on referring to the ICC.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you want to know the real value of the ICC, you can only refer to the 4th March elections and see what Kenyans did. It was a verdict against the ICC.
If you want to know the truth about the ICC, you can only refer to the cases that were on television and see the evidence they have. My small court in Maralal can do a better job than the ICC. This tells you what kind of an international court we have. If you want to know something about the ICC, look at its signatories. The biggest countries that pretend to do justice, like the United States of America (USA) and China are not signatories to this court. So, what do we need to know about the ICC? We have seen that this is not a court because Kenyans proved this on 4th March. I think we need to get out of the hangover of the ICC as Kenyans, as a House and as a country.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I sympathize very much with the victims of 2007 elections but I know that our country is beautiful. We have done well or we have reconciled as a country. We have gone through another election and we have seen that we do not need the ICC at all. I think for our Members, we need to get out of this ICC thing and forget about it forever. It is not something that is helpful to our country. Today, during the debate of the Motion of hon. Dr. Laboso, the Deputy Speaker, you could actually see the malice in the ICC. The Benin Agreement that was basically a trade agreement, if you look at the revised meetings out of the Economic Partnerships Agreements (EPAs), you can see that now the Benin Agreement has incorporated other things like you have to ratify the Rome Statute in order for you to trade with Europe. It tells you something about this ICC thing. It tells you the drivers and I think as a country we should get out.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, on the second question about hon. Mak’Onyango, I sympathise with him and I hope the Government will do something very quickly to help that gentleman for the work that he has done for our country. I always think that we give more attention to the things that happen in Nairobi and particularly things about people who live in urban areas. However, if you look at the injustices which are done to people who live in rural areas, far flung from the city like Samburu, we forget the injustices that are done there. Three years ago, families in Samburu saw something
(Hon.) (Ms.) Mbalu: Hon. Benson Makali Mulu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Report and more so on the area of the TSC and the issue of hon. Mak’Onyango. Relating to the TSC commissioners, I think the Government is being very unfair to the teachers because we know the work of these commissioners. They handle very important roles for the teachers. These are issues to do with discipline and other important issues relating to teachers’ issues and I think it is important that these commissioners are appointed. As we are talking, we have only one commissioner and they need a quorum just as we do in the House and unless that quorum is achieved then no business can be conducted. On this basis, I think it is important that the remaining commissioners are appointed. I think the Attorney-General has given his legal opinion where he says that already people were interviewed to be commissioners and were not appointed. So, the fact that we were not able to pick those who were shortlisted, I think it is important that we can get more commissioners from the remaining lot and we have a fully constituted TSC so that its work is not constrained.
Relating to the issue of hon. Mak’Onyango, I think it is very unfair that somebody was actually harassed by his own Government and as a result of that harassment a decision was made so that, that person is compensated. However, for the last almost 30 years this compensation has not been forthcoming. It is very unfair to such a Kenyan. I do not know whether the Government is waiting for this character to die and then they pay the money to the relatives or the family members. So, what is the delay for?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, so, I think that it is important that this report is adopted and immediately the Committee on Implementation picks up the matter so that hon. Mak’Onyango is compensated. This is so that before God takes him away at whatever time that is planned, he will be able to enjoy some of this money. I think he has suffered enough and it is very unfair that the Government keeps on delaying. It makes very lame excuses which do not make sense to anybody. I really support this report that this hon. Member should be compensated.
With these remarks, I want to support the Report. Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon.) (Ms.) Mbalu: Hon. Junet Sheikh Nuh.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion. This is a very good Report and it shows the competence of the Chairman of the Committee. This is one of the best reports that this House has received so far for the last
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I stand to support the Report. Democratically, I am bound by the Report as a Member of the Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. I just wanted to emphasize one thing, that the issue of Mak’Onyango is just one among many. It is very discouraging to all of us, even the few of us who have not gone to court and have good reasons to go to court, having suffered under that regime for 14 years in exile. Their children and their grandchildren continue to suffer after a competent court of the Republic of Kenya has awarded them some meager damages. There is no compensation that one can get for being exiled for 14 years and being jailed without trial in Kamiti for ten to 15 years.
I hope and pray that this House will come up with mechanisms of enforcing decisions of the court. Just yesterday, our Committee was here seeking this House to approve the name of the new Solicitor-General. Parliament has been very responsive to the Judiciary. One would like to hope that the haste with which they bring names to be approved here would be the same haste in which they would act to settle such claims. On the issue of the TSC, I support the teachers very strongly. One of the reasons why the strike might be taking a while is because there is no representative of the teachers’ employer, namely, the Teachers Service Commission. There is no commission to negotiate with the Government and for that reason, we have continued to see a protracted struggle between the Ministry and the KNUT. I wish to support the Report, but emphasize that one would like to hope and pray that the Jubilee Members of Parliament present here today will implore the new Solicitor-General to talk to the President’s office or whichever office that compensates the victims of torture and human rights abuses, so that this is settled sooner than later. There has also to be established a mechanism that binds the Government to settle such awards within a given period of time. If that is discussed, that period should not be more than six months. If you get to know some of the victims, and I know all of them, not only Mak’Onyango, I know Gitobu and Mwandawiro Mghanga, these people have been reduced to paupers. They have a right to enjoy the fruits of their work which is the liberty that we enjoy in this House. This House used to be treated to drama during those dark days when Members of Parliament would be arrested in this House without enjoying any immunity. They sacrificed for that purpose, but they continued to suffer. It is like we want to punish them even further for fighting so that we can enjoy the fruits that we so gladly enjoy today.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also rise to support this Report on the same vein. Everything is clear now.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I really needed to move a very important amendment to this Report, but I can see that we do not have a quorum. So, I request you to order that the Division Bell be rung, so that we can have enough Members in the House.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): It is true we do not have a quorum. So, I order the Division Bell to be rung for ten minutes. Members, you are supposed to remain seated.