Hon. Members, could those Members at the door, please, settle down before I give my communication?
Hon. Members, I will hold on my communication for a little while. Let us move to the other Orders and then I will give my communication afterwards.
Hon. Alfred Keter, do you have a Paper you want to lay on the Table? Please, hon. Members, I have consistently said that you should not make a request until the Order that you wish to intervene in is actually called.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.44(2)(c) I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands regarding disputed parcels of land across the country, especially those among neighbouring communities. For instance, there is a disputed piece of land within Sigor Constituency in Pokot County. It is being claimed by residents of the neighbouring constituency. The land in question measures approximately 1,500 acres and has some activities going on, on it. The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands should inquire into and report on the following: the ownership of the piece of land; the reason for the dispute over this piece of land and other pieces of land in the area, and the way forward in resolving disputes between communities living within the area.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, this has brought a lot of conflict between the neighbouring communities in the area. This matter is urgent and I, therefore, urge the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands to address it.
I can see the Chairman of the Departmental Committee is present. Could we get an indication as to when you will give a response to this request for Statement?
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I know that it is causing some conflict between communities; but at the same time, I would like to get the facts as they are before I can bring the Statement. I am seeking three weeks to do the work. I seek the indulgence of the hon. Member.
Did you say “two weeks”, hon. Mwiru? It was not very clear from here.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have sought three weeks, so that I can get the facts.
Okay. Yes, hon. Barre Shill.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 44(2)(c), I wish to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security concerning the rising level of insecurity, leading to the closure of public facilities due to the withdrawal of police officers from various town centres. Due to the insecurity brought about by the Al Shabaab insurgency in the border regions, security personnel and innocent Kenyans have lost their lives and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
properties. The additional threats due to withdrawal of security personnel have led to the closure of public schools and dispensaries. For instance, in Fafi Constituency eight schools and four dispensaries have been closed down for this reason. That is disadvantaging the area residents. Teachers in schools like Garesweno, Masabubu, Habagdera, Worable, Fafi, Malahmaru and Aleemeji Primary Schools, as well as Galmagala Secondary Schools, have fled the schools. In his Statement, the Chairperson should inquire into and report on the following matters: the number of Kenya police personnel in Fafi, indicating their stations; why Administration Police (AP) officers were withdrawn from various town centres in Fafi Constituency despite some areas being over 180 kilometres from the border; what measures the Government is taking to increase the number of security personnel in that border constituency as well as along the Kenya/Somalia border; and what steps the Government is taking to properly equip police officers to enable them fight criminal elements, including providing them with sufficient vehicles and other equipment.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, most of the police stations in my constituency have no vehicles. They have no gadgets. Police officers are there doing literally nothing, because they do not have enough equipment yet the constituency borders Somalia.
Yes, Chairperson of Committee on National Security and Administration.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that this problem is prevalent in that area. The gravity of the issue is really big because we are talking of closed down schools, dispensaries and police stations. It is really a matter of great concern. Therefore, I request the House to give me two weeks to be able to come back with a comprehensive answer. As I prepare the answer, I will discuss the matter with the Principal Secretary in the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government to ensure that the schools and dispensaries in that area are reopened.
Okay. Two weeks it shall be. Yes, hon. Abdulswamad Shariff Nassir.
Thank you very much, hon. Deputy Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 44(2) (c), I wish to request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Administration and National Security regarding the apparent upsurge of extra-judicial killings in the country and rendition of Kenyans to Uganda on suspicion of being involved in terrorist acts. In May, 2012, the decomposed body of one Samir Khan was found in Tsavo East National Park. In July, 2012, Omar Faraj was shot dead by the police. In October, 2012 Aboud Rogo was gunned down in Bamburi. In June, 2013, Kassim Otieno Omolo and Salim Mohamed Nyiru were killed in Kisauni. On 3rd October, 2013, Sheikh Ibrahim Omar, Gadafi Mohamed, Issa Abdala and Omar Aburumisa were all killed in Bamburi. The aforementioned people were allegedly linked to either Al Qaida and /or Al Shabaab terrorist groups. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Seven Kenyans, namely Omar Awadh Omar, Hussein Hassan Agade, Mohamed Aden Abdul, Iddris Magundu, Mohamed Hammed Suleiman, Yahya Suleiman Mbuthia and Habib Suleiman Njoroge, were renditioned to Uganda to face terrorism charges in 2010, but to date, their trials have not begun. This is despite a Kenyan court declaring the renditions illegal. Hon. Deputy Speaker, as much as we do not support terrorism or groups that are linked to terror, we need to uphold the rule of law. The killing of people without taking them through free and fair trial---
Hon. Nassir, you are requesting a Statement. There will be time for prosecuting it. Just reduce your request to introductory and background information.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, allow me to remind this House that in this country, we are governed by a Constitution. Article 28 of the Constitution provides for the right of a citizen to justice. Article 50 clearly spells out the rights of the citizenry of this country, including the right to a free and fair hearing in the event that they are suspected of any crime. Hon. Deputy Speaker, in his Statement, the Chairperson of the Committee should inquire into and report on the following---
Order, hon. Members! The level of consultations is too high. Hon. Onyonka and hon. (Eng.) Rege, what did we say about walking along the corridors?
Thank you for your protection, hon. Deputy Speaker. In his Statement, the Chairperson of the Committee should inquire into and report on the following: the reasons behind the apparent upsurge of extra-judicial killings in the country, especially of people who have been suspected of having links with terrorist groups, without them being given a fair hearing; what steps are being taken by the relevant arms of the Government to investigate those murders and apprehend those who were responsible; and how and who authorised the rendition of the seven Kenyans to Uganda, and what the Government is doing to bring them back to Kenya to be tried in a court of law?
The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, you realise that the Member has raised very pertinent issues, having to do with extra-judicial killings and rendition of Kenyans to Uganda. That will require comprehensive investigations. So, I will require one month to come up with a Statement. Committee Chairs request for a lot of time, because I have realised that there is a lot of bureaucracy in the Civil Service, especially in the Executive. You are promised two weeks but it does not happen. I have an issue which I have pursued for three weeks. They normally take time. I want to promise that in a month’s time I will avail the information to the House.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you. Hon. Nicholas Gumbo will be the last because of the nature of the business that we have today.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Three weeks ago I requested a Statement, which actually touches on the dignity of the citizens of this country; this was on the cause of the death of the late Haji Lukindo. I was supposed to have been given that Statement last week. The Leader of Majority Party promised to issue it today, but from the look of things he does not have it. This matter is so important to me. It touches on our sovereignty and dignity as the people of Kenya and how foreigners regard us as citizens. So, I really want an assurance today when this Statement will come.
The Leader of Majority Party, you gave an undertaking.
I did, hon. Deputy Speaker. I do not think that my looks will tell whether I have a Statement. The hon. Member said: “From the looks of the Leader of the Majority Party---”
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I gave an undertaking last Thursday, and because we need to consult the United States (US) Embassy, I can confirm that on Thursday afternoon I will give the Statement.
Okay, Thursday afternoon.
Hon. Mbadi, I see you are on a point of order. What is out of order?
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Equally, last week I sought a Statement from the Departmental Committee on Lands with regard to appointments that a Cabinet Secretary is making in his Ministry that are hurting a good number of staff, and that are contrary to the law and the Constitution.
You remember the Leader of Majority Party even undertook that this Statement would be brought within one week. I wanted to know from the Leader of Majority Party and the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Lands whether they have the Statement. This is about personnel matters, employment and there is sensitivity in the matter.
The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Lands.
Thank you so much, hon. Deputy Speaker; we note the concern of my brother, hon. John Mbadi. Indeed, we have been trying to get the Cabinet Secretary to explain to the Committee. I want to invite hon. Mbadi today at 3.30 p.m. to a meeting I will have with the Cabinet Secretary, so that he can also shed some light on what could have been happening. This morning is when I was able to secure an appointment with the Cabinet Secretary. So, the Committee is meeting at 3.30 p.m. and I seek his indulgence. I know very little time is left before that time.
I was trying to look around for him to see whether we could talk to him to join us; I want to invite him very humbly to be with us this afternoon at 3.30 p.m., so that he can provide us with some information. I am sorry to the hon. Member because it is a little bit late now.
Hon. Mbadi, you can ask all the questions you have on the matter to the Cabinet Secretary.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Members, I will now give my communication. Following the laying of the Paper by the Leader of the Majority Party on the accounts of the national Government for the year ended 30th June, 2012, I wish to make the following communication. Could the two Members take their seats please?
Hon. Members, Article 229 of the Constitution establishes the office of the Auditor-General of the Republic of Kenya and obligates the Auditor-General to report certain matters to Parliament. In particular, Article 229(7) provides that: “Audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly.” Article 95(4)(c) of the Constitution also provides that: “The National Assembly exercises oversight over the national revenue and its expenditure.” It, therefore, follows that the oversight function over national expenditure by the national Government is by the National Assembly, and may be exercised through relevant committees. In the past, reports of the Auditor-General were tabled in the House by the Minister responsible for Finance. Since commencement of this Session, we have adopted a practice of requiring the Leader of Majority Party to table all statutory papers, including audit reports of the various State agencies and departments. You will note that neither Article 229(7) nor any other legislation provides for modalities for submitting the Auditor-General’s reports to the National Assembly. It, therefore, obligates the Speaker to use Standing Order No.1 on the manner of discharging this cardinal function of the House.
Hon. Members, the report that has since been laid is the Report of the Auditor- General on the accounts of the National Government for the year ended 30th June, 2012. The report now stands committed to the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) for consideration. The Auditor-General’s Report on the National Government’s accounts is not any ordinary report. It is for this reason that the Auditor-General requested the National Assembly to be allowed to present it personally to the relevant committee in an open forum, where all Members will be invited. After very careful consideration, the Auditor-General’s request was granted by the Speaker based on the practice in other jurisdictions, in particular the House of Commons of Canada where the Auditor- General’s report is laid in the House before the Auditor-General presents a summary of his findings to the PAC.
Hon. Members, the House Business Committee (HBC) has since received a request from the PAC to be allowed to use this Chamber today at 4.00 p.m. for this purpose. The request was accordingly granted during the PAC’s last meeting. In this regard, you are hereby notified that pursuant to Standing Order No.31, today the 8th of October, 2013, at 4.00 p.m., the Leader of Majority Party will move a Motion requesting The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the House to adjourn its sitting of the day to enable the PAC to receive the report. It is expected that you will accommodate the Committee.
When the Committee convenes, the Auditor-General will present highlights of the contents of the said report. At a later date, the Committee will commence the ordinary process of examining the report, including calling witnesses. In this regard, it is expected that in today’s sitting, the Auditor-General will present the highlights of the report and no clarifications or questions will follow. All Members are, therefore, invited to remain in the Chamber after the Speaker’s procession leaves, save for the members of the HBC who will have their usual meeting immediately thereafter.
Thank you for your kind attention.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker.
What is your point of order, hon. Mbadi?
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Your Communication is very clear and I believe this is going to set a precedent in this country; it should be gladly welcomed by all of us. However, I have two issues. One, the Auditor-General audits accounts and reports on the accounts of all ministries, departments and State corporations; but the law requires that the same Auditor-General be also audited by an independent auditing firm. This Parliament appointed an auditing firm. When are we also going to receive the audit report on the Auditor-General’s office because he must also be audited? We need to know when we are going to also get that report, so that we are sure that even as the Auditor-General audits others, he is also using our resources prudently.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, finally, there is a provision in the Public Finance Management Act that I would urge the Leader of Majority Party to pay attention to, and possibly amend. The law requires that the Auditor-General audits and reports on these accounts within six months; six months ended in December for the accounts of 2011/2012. If the six months are not practical, I think this House needs to amend the law, so that we do not continue to violate the same laws that we passed in this House.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, those are my two concerns. The first one is with regard to when we are going to get the audit report on the Auditor-General, and two is whether that provision is in the law, if it cannot be met--- I think that it is not likely to be met; so, we should amend it.
Leader of Majority Party, are you responding to hon. Mbadi?
I totally concur with hon. Mbadi’s sentiments, on the independent auditor who was to audit the Auditor- General’s report, and also on the issue of the timeline. These are the questions we are going to put to the Auditor-General today through the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee, and also on many other grey areas. That is why the Public Accounts Committee, through their Chair, has availed an opportunity to us to ask many questions to the Auditor-General. I am, therefore, informing my colleagues that it will be a very important session. Firstly, we are going to learn the mandate and the workings of the Auditor-General under the new dispensation and within the new constitutional framework. Secondly, we will get the knowledge.
I will inform my colleagues about the two concerns of hon. Mbadi and many others; let us spare 30 to 40 minutes. I am sure he will not take more that 45 minutes to do his presentation. The audited report which I have tabled of the Financial Year The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
2011/2012 has a summary, which I am sure will be availed. Parliament will give copies to Members, showing all the items, including the excesses, the expenditures and imprests.
This afternoon session is very important, because we will be in a position to know more and critique. The six months he is supposed to present the accounts, he should inform us; can he do it within six months? If not, as legislators we look at the law and see whether we can allow him more time.
Yes, hon. Gumbo.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. The overriding principle of the Auditor-General coming here at 4.00p.m. today is because this matter is of interest to the Kenyan Public. While I do not want to follow up on that matter, this to me is not the only matter which is of interest to the Kenyan public. You will recall that on many occasions, I have stood up here on points of order to ask questions. In fact, almost on a daily basis Members stand up here to ask questions on security in the country. I have taken it upon myself to ask a question because I realize, in allowing the Auditor-General to address a Committee of the whole House, you have resorted to Standing Order No.1.
My contention, and I believe it is one shared by most Members here, is that security in Kenya has become a national issue. The same way we are able to use Standing Order No.1 to allow the Auditor-General to come here and give us issues relating to matters that concern the Kenyan public, I beseech you through the Office of the Speaker, that we should have a similar session. If you look at our country in the last three months, the truth is that many parts of Kenya have now simply become death and torture chambers. The hon. Bare Shill has just raised a matter where schools and hospitals have been closed. Security is no longer a matter that we can gloss over. I am requesting through you, and I have written to the substantive Speaker on this matter, that on regular intervals we must be able to convert this House into a Committee of the whole House, so that we interrogate the people whose primary duty is to provide security for our people. Nobody is spared, Members of this House have been affected and even the President’s cousin was affected. If I ask Members here, for the last three months almost every county has been affected by security issues. It is no longer a matter that we can come here, engage the Chairman of the Committee on Administration and National Security, who really has no duty to provide security for us and think that matters are well. All is not well; we have to change the rules of the game to tackle the issue of security in Kenya in a manner that we engage directly with those responsible for this purpose.
Thank you; I think that is a very valid request, particularly at this time; it shall be processed and you will get the response of whether it is possible or not. This is the beginning; you have seen me starting with the National Treasury and now we have the Auditor-General. I am sure similar arrangements can be made, but you will get a communication. You will be told when that session can take place. Members we are not going to discuss my Communication, but I want to give a chance to the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Just a quick response to the two issues raised by the hon. Member for Suba. First, on the audit of the Office of the Auditor-General, it is a matter which really is not in his The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
power to tell us when he will be audited and when that report will come to the House. The Public Accounts Committee will liaise with the Parliamentary Service Commission, because this matter is the responsibility of the House. It is part of our oversight responsibility. When it comes to overseeing the Office of the Auditor-General, we ought to take the responsibility of making sure that it is done. I wish, on behalf of the Public Accounts Committee, to give an assurance to the House that the Committee will make it a priority to liaise with the leadership of the House and ensure that the audit is conducted, and the report is brought to the House for consideration in the same manner. On the question of timing, I wish to bring to the attention of the House that the Public Accounts Committee has been very concerned with the time lapse in terms of the audited accounts being considered. Our concern is even greater considering that the law now requires that the apportioning of resources between the national Government and county governments also depends on expenditures audited by the Auditor-General. The Committee is very keen to ensure that we are up to date and we are in real time, in terms of the audited accounts. We are making every effort possible to make sure that we conclude the backlog of reports. One of the reasons why we have consulted the Office of the Auditor-General and support fully the arrangement that we are witnessing this afternoon, it is part of the process of expediting the process of audit and bringing reports to this House for consideration. Allow me to urge the House to note that this is a historic moment; we are breaking new ground. Many democracies that are progressive in nature in terms of oversight are going this route. The Public Accounts Committee has done this in the belief that under our Constitution today; oversight has been raised to another level, and it is our responsibility, as Members of this House. You do not have to sit in the Public Accounts Committee to take the responsibility of oversight seriously. It belongs to all of us. Finally, on the question raised by hon. Gumbo, if you can indulge me to say a word on that, we are in a new dispensation. We are learning the ropes in very many areas. In fact, the challenge of not having Government in the House is so interesting that it could even trigger our thinking as to whether it was prudent to remove Government from the House entirely, and whether we might not want to consider new arrangements that allow a certain level of direct interaction between the House and the Government. It is a matter, which I believe this House is competent enough to handle. That does not take away in any way the very competence of the Leader of Majority Party whom I think has held forte for Government very well; in fact, I will be recommending to His Excellency, when I meet him, that he ought to give him a national honour for the excellent role he has played, holding forte for the national Government in the House. Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Okay; thank you. Chairman Committee on Administration and National Security, just one second, please. Remember that we are going to end at 4.00pm. We still have some serious business that we need to dispense with before that time.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Gumbo actually raised the issue of the possibility of us having the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government addressing this House on several issues. Security is a big issue to most Members of Parliament. I have shared with him and he is ready to come and address this House on the issues pertaining to security in constituencies. If we invite him and the Speaker makes that ruling, it will be in order.
Okay; thank you, hon. Sakaja.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for the Communication. I want to associate myself with the sentiments of hon. Mbadi with respect to the Auditor-General also being audited. I wish to seek one clarification. In the House Business Committee meeting that was held last Tuesday, we agreed that before this report is brought to the House, the Members should have it. It needs to be tabled first, so that we can interract with it. For us to play our oversight role well in this House, we cannot just be coming to watch a movie or to watch it being presented, but we need to be able to ask questions. I have heard the Leader of Majority Party saying that it is a good opportunity for us to ask questions and to critique it. So, what are we critiquing? Where is the report? It should have been tabled last Thursday, but it has not been tabled. So, kindly clarify whether we are just listening to the Auditor-General or are we also going to raise queries and questions on this report? That was the position of the House Business Committee.
Hon. Members, I clearly stated in my Communication that there were no clarifications or questions being sought at this stage. The report could not have been brought before because it has to be laid first in this House. Then it becomes the property of the House. Right now, there are over 300 copies out there, but we could not distribute them until after it has been laid and become the property of the House. Now that the Committee is seized of it, you can now interract with it and take any concerns that you may have to the Public Investments Committee or do it when PIC will be giving us their report. That is the procedure that we are going to follow, hon. Sakaja.
Members, let us move to the next Order, please.
Members, please, remember that we have now moved to the Supplementary Order Paper.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, Pursuant to Article 127(2)(d) of the Constitution, this House adopts the Report of the Parliamentary Service Commission and approves the appointment of Ms. Jennifer Nafula Barassa and the Hon. (Dr.) Abdullahi Ibrahim Ali as Members of the Parliamentary Service Commission.
Pursuant to Article 127 of the Constitution, on behalf of the Commission, it is my pleasure and duty to present to the House the Commission Report on the appointment of two Parliamentary Service Commissioners under Article 127(2)(d) of the Constitution. The Commission, as currently constituted, has the Speaker of the National Assembly, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
hon. Justin B. Muturi, as the Chairperson, hon. (Ms.) Mugo as the Vice-Chair, hon. Jimmy Angwenyi as a member, hon. Aden Keynan as a member, Senator Leshore as member, Senator Musila as a member, hon. (Ms.) Regina Changorok as a member, hon. (Ms) Wanga as a member and Mr. Jeremiah Nyegenye, the Clerk to the Senate as Secretary to the Commission.
The PSC is established under Article 127(1) of the Constitution and Article 127(6) sets out the responsibilities and mandates of the Commission. The Commission is responsible for providing services and facilities to the Members. I know and I must appreciate that this Eleventh Parliament has been going through a very difficult time in terms of facilities and I hope these issues will be sorted out very soon. Secondly, it has a mandate of constituting offices in the Parliamentary Service, appointing and supervising the same. Thirdly, preparing annual estimates for the expenditure of the Parliamentary Service and submitting them to the National Assembly for approval and exercising Budget control over the Service. Fourthly, undertaking singly and jointly relevant organisation’s programmes to promote the ideals of the parliamentary democracy and performing other functions necessary for the well being of the Members and the members of staff and prescribing national legislation. Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to this Article, the PSC put adverts in a number of dailies and in the process, over 300 Kenyans applied for the two positions. The Commission, in a number of meetings, went through the list and finally settled on Dr. Abdullahi Ibrahim Ali. I want to say a bit on the history of Dr. Abdullahi Ibrahim Ali. First and foremost, he has been a former Member of Parliament. He is a medical doctor and a former Commissioner. He has served as a Commissioner with the PSC. He has a very rich history. Over the years, he has demonstrated passion for the welfare of Members of Parliament and members of staff. Because we were required to pick two individuals who have excelled in public administration, demonstrated leadership and have the necessary educational and professional qualification, the Commission settled on these two individuals. The Constitution is very clear that one has to be a woman and the other one a man. Taking into account all other consideration, which included taking into account the fact that we have two coalitions, namely the CORD Coalition and the Jubilee Coalition and this is a reality, a man and a woman were required. Therefore, in terms of choice, we had a number of individuals, but these two individuals had very rich CVs. Let me tell you for a minute the academic qualifications of Dr. Abdullahi Ibrahim Ali. In terms of educational qualifications, he graduated from Moi University with Masters in Business Administration in 2006. In 1990, he did his Bachelor of Medicine and Surgery at the University of Nairobi. In 1992, he became a member of the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. From 1991 to 1993, he was an Assistant Medical Director, Moyale District Hospital. From 1996 to 1997, he was the District Medical Officer in Isiolo Referral Hospital. In 1997 until he joined politics, he was the District Medical Officer, Wajir. From 1998 to 2007, he was the Member of Parliament for Wajir North. From 2000 to 2008, he was a Member of the Parliamentary Service Commission. From 2003 to 2005, he was a Member of the Public Accounts Committee. From 2006 to 2007, he was a Member of the Public Investments Committee. From 2009 and 2012, he The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
was a member of the National AIDS Control Council and from 2010 to 2012, he was the Chair of the Kenya Tourism Development Corporation. I know that right now, we are going through serious challenges and I must say this on behalf of the Commission. I want to be very frank that we have not done what we ought to have done simply because of lack of resources or other logistical hitches. Our core mandate is to attend to the welfare of the Members of Parliament and members of staff. If we do not do that, then we have no business. I appreciate that over the last five months, so many Members have been without offices. It is a reality. This is being addressed. I know a number of Members who are serving in different Committees lack the necessary technical support in terms of staffing. These issues are being addressed and I am sure, very soon, some of these issues will be history. Taking that into account, we felt we needed to benefit from the experience and expertise of two individuals who are going to complement what we are already doing. The other person in the name of Jennifer Barassa completed Nairobi University in 1977 with a Bachelor of Education, namely, BA Arts. Between 1978 and 1990, she taught at Lenana High School. Between 1980 and 1984, she was the National Coordinator for Kodak. Between 1984 and 1988, she was Production Manager with Boots Company. Between 1988 and 1990, she was a Manager with Johnson and Johnson. Between 1990 and 1991, she was a manager with the Sterling Health and between 1992 and 1993, she was a consultant for the East African Air. Between 1993 and 1994, she was a Group Director for McCann Erickson. From 1995 to date, she is a Top Image consultant, a founder and Chief Executive of Top Image Limited. Between 2003 and 2005, she was a member of Kenya Women Finance Trust. Between 2005 and 2007 she was a member of the Organization of Women on International Trade. She was also a member of the National Council for Women of Kenya.
On a point of hon. Deputy Speaker. Would it be in order for hon. Keynan to give us a summary, instead of reading a litany of the CV of the nominees?
Hon. Keynan, I also said that you really need not ---
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I was actually trying to be diligent. I know that many hon. Members might not have had an opportunity to go through the CV. Sometimes it is boring. I felt that I should use this opportunity to highlight it and I am about to finish. What I was trying to say is that these individuals; from our own observations, have demonstrated passion to serve hon. Members. They have leadership, administrative and public management skills. I hope you will approve their names. I have just said that we are going through very difficult institutional challenges as a result of the high number of hon. Members. There are logistical problems and lack of adequate finance; which was actually our own making because we reduced the PSC’s budget. I am sure you know it because of populist desires. Hon. Deputy Speaker, what we endeavoured to achieve is the appointment of these two nominees and other Commissioners already in place - the Commission serves the two Houses. I want to go on record that we have a bicameral House; the Senate and the National Assembly. In terms of our functions, we have a committee and we have the Chair of the Members Welfare Committee; hon. Leshore, who is a Senator. I want to say this so that you are also aware. Senator Leshore is in charge of the hon. Members’ The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
welfare. The Chair of the Members’ mortgage, staff mortgage and car loan committee is hon. Mugo. The Chair of the Staff Welfare Committee is hon. Aden Keynan. We have just created a new committee to deal with the issue of media. I hope, if you approve the names of these two nominees, they will also benefit from the experience because that is the reality. That is the way the Commission is constituted and it is hon. Members who approved that and they were appointed on the basis of party strengthen. If there are challenges, it is something that we really need to address. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I can assure hon. Members that we have discussed this and we are in the process of sorting out any issue that touches on--- For me and the other Commissioners, led by the Speaker, when it comes to the welfare of hon. Members and staff, that is our priority. You know how we have dealt with the issue of Sarah Serem and other issues. I want to be very pragmatic on this; the issue of offices is not something that can happen in one night. I want to inform hon. Members that a new office block is about to be constructed, but the other issues like the issue of Kenyatta International Conference Centre (KICC) and Continental House etcetera are being sorted out. It is not something that can be done overnight. This is why I want to ask for your indulgence and patience. The Commission is your own product. You cannot blame anybody else. I have hon. Jimmy Nuru Angwenyi who is a veteran. Hon. Members, the two months that we dealt with Sarah Serem taught us a lesson, which is patience, resilience and persistence.
Order! Order, hon. Members!
I always say this, the Commission is a political commission and therefore, whatever we do without your support or your indulgence, whether it is budgetary allocation, courtesy of the new Constitution--- The power to make budget is in your hands. In fact, right now I have been discussing this with the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. I want hon. Members to hear this; Parliament, courtesy of what we did in 1998 when Parliament was listed as one of the departments in the Office of the President, in terms of project making today, we are not being recognized as one of the three independent arms of the Republic of Kenya. This is an issue that we must address through the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It is not something that PSC can address.
Order! Order, hon. Members! The levels of consultations are too high. Hon. (Ms.) Wahome, please stop and sit down.
The Parliamentary Service Commission is clustered as part of the administrative sector, which is not right. The Judiciary and Parliament must draw their budgetary allocation directly from the Consolidated Fund, if they are to be funded properly. The Medium Term Expenditure Review Framework and the Budget making process are all in our hands. If we play populist politics, deny ourselves the necessary The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
budget and it is Kenyans who, in their own wisdom, decided to have a Presidential system, we will be doing ourselves a disservice. If these committees are not funded and Parliament is not given enough funds to recruit enough staff, we will suffer. These are the issues that we need to address. I am on record as having said this before. We need to ask the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to address the issue. In this year’s Budget, we proposed to have a budget of Kshs23 billion. Eventually, in your own wisdom, you gave the Commission about Kshs19 billion creating a deficit of about Kshs5 billion, which is going to be reflected in our own institutional frameworks. It is not something that the Commission has just got. Right now, we are in the process of asking for supplementary budgetary allocation. I know those of you who serve in different committees realize that the budget given to committees is not enough for their tea and mandazi. These are issues that must be addressed and it is in the hands of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Hon. Deputy Speaker, coming back to this, this is a constitutional requirement; we did whatever we could to get the best out of the team that came before us; a man and women. We went ahead and ensured that the two represented as much as possible, the interest of the two coalitions and passion and interest of hon. Members. Therefore, I want to plead with hon. Members to support these two names as they will add value to the already constituted commission. For those who are familiar with the formation of PSC, it was a taboo to criticize your party leader. You should agree with your party leader. But Dr. Ali and a number of other individuals at that time, for the sake of hon. Members, stood firm. Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi will tell you that some of them were even sacked simply because they stood firm and said: “This is not in the interest of hon. Members.” That even included a commissioner who was de-whipped by his party. I want to ask: Is it possible today that the hon. Members of this august House can sit down and say, “Look, we went to have so and so in the commission, notwithstanding the position of the party that brought that particular individual to the House? That is what those guys did and it worked; one living example is hon. Peter Oloo Aringo. He was de-whipped by NDP and KANU during the merger, but we sat down here in a Kamukunji and said: “We do not agree with the position of our party leaders”. For the sake of our welfare, we wanted to have hon. Peter Oloo Aringo. Is it possible today?
It is not possible! If that was possible, I can assure you we would have had other trade unionists in the commission, but it is not the case. There were political considerations. I want to tell you that we will stand firm. I want to be on record on this: The interests of hon. Members and staff come first. This is a political commission and it must be given the weight it deserves; especially by hon. Members themselves and those who are in the Executive. At all times, the institutional independence of Parliament must be respected and the only way it can be respected is, if Parliament works. For it to work, there must be funds and this is the only route. There must be adequate funds. If there is enough funding, all the other issues that we are raising right now will not be there. The issue of offices, technical staff and professional consultancy services will not be there. Therefore, I want to ask hon. Jimmy Angwenyi to second this Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to second this Motion with pride. This is because Dr. Ali is a founder member of the Parliamentary Service Commission. Dr. Ali, Oloo Aringo, John Sambu and Jimmy Angwenyi sacrificed even ministerial positions to bring forth the Parliamentary Commission. Whatever benefits and perks that we are enjoying here today are as a result of the effort of people like Dr. Ali. I recommend him highly. Actually, if I was asked: “Can you stand down for Ali so that he becomes a Commissioner and you become just a member?” I can agree because I know my welfare will be in good hands. We have been told about the credentials of Ms. Barassa. She is currently the Chairperson of the CDF Board. You know how dear we hold the CDF. She is the one managing the CDF at present and I think she has been delivering her services well despite various challenges. Therefore, if she became a member of the PSC, I am sure we will move miles. As my brother has said, Parliament is its own enemy. I always ask hon. Keynan about what happened with regard to the policy that we had in the Ninth Parliament whereby the budget of Parliament was never questioned. At that time, we never had the Budget and Appropriations Committee controlled by the House. At that time, the budget was being controlled from the Treasury, but we had a policy that nobody would challenge the budget of the PSC and so we were able to do a lot of work for this country. Today, it is our own committee in charge of Budget which reduces our budget by 27 per cent and assumes that we will be able to perform those functions that we were supposed to perform. I know they are facing challenges--- My friend is concerned about offices. It is true that six months after Members of Parliament were sworn in, they do not have offices. We have not provided alternative means. They need a place to sit and attend to their constituents. It is regrettable. I really feel bad that I should experience that kind of thing after all the sacrifice we made to have the PSC. I know that some of the Committees cannot make trips abroad let alone in the country to find out the state of insecurity in Mandera. We do not have funds today to give that Committee to go to Mandera. We do not have money to facilitate the Committee concerned to go and find out more about the problem of miraa in Meru. We went there recently and we were unable to come back. We had to borrow money for bus fare to come back. This is simply because our own Committee has reduced the budget of Parliament. Hon. Members, we must have a commitment for our institution, the same way the Executive and the Judiciary are committed to their own institutions. We must guard the Legislature. We must assemble, mobilize and marshal as much powers as possible for the Legislature. That is when we will be felt.
Hon. Members, the consultations are too high. I can see the Chief Whip you are attracting people around you. I guess it has to do with the next Order, but can you, please, find a suitable place to consult?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, some Members of Parliament have been asking me, “Why are you quiet these days? Have you been given higher perks?” No, I The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
have not. We are working for you. I know that we have problems with our fixed costs. This morning, I must announce that we are dealing with the issue of offices. If we cannot provide offices then we should provide hon. Members with some allowance so that they can afford offices in town. When we do that, we will bring it back here in the Supplementary Budget. We hope you will approve that Supplementary Budget that will take care of your welfare. Without much ado, I wish to second these two persons to be appointed as our representatives in the PSC.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to share with this House my practical experience with one of the nominees for this post, that is, Jeniffer Barassa. I was really shocked that Jeniffer Barassa actually applied for this job. For one, she has no respect for Parliament as an institution and also for Members of this House. Why do I say that? When I was leaving the CDF Board to contest for elections, I spoke to the Minister and he told me to take my letter through the Chairperson of the Board. When she received my letter and read the reasons stated therein, she told me, “Abbas, I knew you are a very difficult person, but I never thought you were greedy and lazy.” When I asked her why she was saying so she said, “ Bunge is for the lazy and greedy Kenyans.” It is, therefore, so surprising for me that the very same person applied for this job. I want to quote two other incidents. When I served the Board, we visited various constituencies---
Order, Members! Allow the hon. Member to finish. The consultations are too high. Hon. Keynan, do you have a point of order?
Order, Members! Hon. Members, you cannot force a Member not to speak. Every Member is allowed to speak. If Keynan has a point of order you cannot stop him from prosecuting his point of order.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I did not want to interfere with the contribution of hon. Abass, but I think so that we are prudent and fair to all of us, this is a House of rules. I just wanted hon. Abass to invoke the provisions of Standing Order No.90 which states that a Member who wishes to speak on any matter in which a Member has a personal interest shall first declare the interest---
We are just being prudent. My friends, this is a House of rules and we must follow our own rules!
Order, hon. Members! The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
It says that personal interests include pecuniary interest, proprietary interest, personal relationships and business relationships. I just wanted to alert him so that he can invoke the provisions of this Standing Order and then say whatever he wants to say. Thank you, Madam.
Hon. Members, hon. Keynan is not saying that he should stop saying what he is saying. He is only trying to protect him through the right Standing Order. Let us not be too rush to make our own judgment. Proceed and conclude, hon. Abass.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Let me share with this House her performance as the Chairperson of CDF Board. For the three years I was a member of that Board, there was a consultant who carried out personal performance appraisals. Believe me, Barassa, who was the Chairperson, was number last amongst the Board members for the three consecutive years I was in that institution. Even in performing her functions as the Chairperson of the Board, she kept on misinforming the Board on each and every issue. She would always quote the name of the Minister to kind of intimidate the Board. It reached a time when the situation became so serious that all of us, as a Board, had to walk to the Minister and ask him: “Are you the one giving instructions on each and every issue?” The Minister was shocked.
Finally, I would like to say that Madam Barassa does not deserve to be an intern in this institution, leave alone being a Commissioner of PSC.
With those remarks, I beg to oppose.
Yes, hon. Asman Kamama.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to, first of all, support the nomination of Dr. Ali as a Commissioner.
I would like to advise my colleagues that, as we choose persons who are going to be in charge of our welfare, we should make sure that we are meticulous. We should know what we are doing. We did this sometime back when Ms. Sarah Serem came here and lobbied all over the place. She sought the assistance of hon. Members from the Rift Valley but eventually, she ended up being our enemy number one. On this one, please, let us not make any mistake. We will support the appointment of Dr. Ali because he did a meticulous job in the Ninth Parliament. Let me tell you, Dr. Ali will not let us down. He will do a professional job.
Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have been lobbied by my friends to support the nomination of Madam Barassa but, let me tell you that, if you support this lady, you will regret. First of all, during an induction at Safari Park, she treated us like kindergarten kids. Secondly, when we were elected and we were supposed to hold elections for CDF members, she spread a lot of propaganda through the media until we had to go for a mini-election of our CDF members. In fact, we had 66 cases that arose from her propaganda. Hon. Members spent close to Kshs13.2 million because of Madam Barassa. I want to urge you to oppose her nomination with all your hearts and zeal. Let The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
our brothers and sisters from CORD bring another person. Please, do not allow that lady to come here.
Yes, hon. Rachel Shebesh.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. When names of persons are brought to this House for approval and we immediately start vilifying individuals and speaking in the way we are doing about one Barassa, whom I hear is the Chairperson of the CDF Board; it is unfair. I would like the Mover of this Motion to explain to us how the name of that lady found its way here, given that all the Members who have spoken have done so very negatively and said that she does not deserve the position because she was the Chairperson of CDF. Can we ask the Chairperson of PSC or whoever has moved this Motion, just to tell us how her name reached here? Do the PSC Members not have CDFs to know her conduct, so that we do not have to take this kind of discussion to the level we are taking it? Hon. Deputy Speaker, can I have your direction as to whether the Mover of the Motion can explain this? We have said many times that, by the time a name of a person comes to this House, due diligence should have been done. The PSC interviewed over 300 people. They have brought two names. From what we have heard so far, it is obvious that Members of this House are not comfortable with this name. I know this woman very well. She has a reputation to keep. Can the Mover tell us whether he is ready to withdraw her name rather than tarnish it? She is currently the Chairperson of CDF Board.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Hon. Kathuri, are you on a point of order?
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I have a lot of respect for hon. Keynan. I do not know why today he did not compile a small report, so that we can see how he came up with these names. There is no report to show how they did this work. So, maybe, you can advise them further to---
Hon. Kathuri, the report was tabled in this House last week. So, what you are saying is not true. Maybe, you just did not read it. Hon. Members, you have all pressed on your microphones until we cannot proceed. Yes, hon. Wamalwa.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion. Hon. Deputy Speaker, people have attitudes. Let us look at the composition of PSC. We need to have regional balance in PSC.
Get another person! Get another person!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, can you, please, defend me?
Order! Order, hon. Members! Allow hon. Wamalwa to have his say. I have given him the chance.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am not saying this because Jennifer Nafula Barassa is a Luhya like me. I am saying this in terms of her academic qualifications. She qualifies. We should look at regional balance and competence. People have attitudes. If at all she had a wrong attitude---
No! No! The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Who is still upstanding? Hon. Kaluma, you are excluded from the Chamber for the rest of this sitting!
Hon. Members, this is not a market place. We cannot be shouting at each other. Let us conduct ourselves honourably. Allow the hon. Member to have his say. This is a debating Chamber. We do not come here to agree with everybody. He has a point. Let him prosecute it. When he is through, you will say yours. I will remove from this Chamber anybody who is going to shout. I am now looking for the next person to remove from the Chamber.
Continue hon. Wamalwa.
hank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for protecting me. I request hon. Members to give me time.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Constitution is very clear on gender balance in public appointments. Out of the ten persons nominated for appointment, Barassa is coming in to fill the gender requirement. This wonderful lady might have made mistakes in terms of attitude but people change. Wherever she is, she must be listening. Looking at the composition of the commission, from the North Eastern region, we have two representatives. From Nyanza region, we have two representatives. From Western region, she is the only lady in this team, and she qualifies for the job. So, I rise to support her. Whatever mistakes there may be, we need to be given a performance appraisal report indicating where she went wrong as the Chairperson of the CDF Board. We cannot entertain the accusations being levelled against her because of personal interests. Indeed, we, in this House, are not lazy, neither are we greedy. If she made such remarks, maybe, she did so because of her personal issues with hon. Abass. Therefore, I urge the hon. Members who are here, and especially those from western region to support the nomination of that lady. If at all we are going to withdraw her name, the next opportunity should go back to the Western region. With those remarks, I beg to support the Motion.
Honourable James Wandayi.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. As I rise to contribute to this Motion, I must express my serious disappointment with this Parliamentary Service Commission. The PSC has joined the league of those moribund commissions that we have been trying to disband. The PSC as we speak has failed totally in the delivery of its mandate. It is not conceivable and imaginable that seven months after an election, Members of Parliament can be operating from their private offices, when we have a PSC which is constituted, and which has been given resources and has got the time to act. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have got serious doubts as to whether those two people who are being proposed to join this Commission are going to add any value to it. This Commission needs to relook at its vision and mission if, at all, it has got any, before we can even talk of adding members to it.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, we have a Commission that has got no communication strategy – a Commission whose activities are shrouded in opaqueness and mystery. The lack of budgetary allocation cannot be an excuse for this Commission to fail to execute its mandate. The reason why the Parliamentary Budget Committee was unable to give this Commission enough money was because of its inability to communicate effectively to the Members of Parliament to understand what it intends to do with the money.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I understand that PSC employs staff of this Parliament. If at all it does so, it has totally failed in the supervision of the very staff that it employs. If you look at Parliament as we speak, from my background in the corporate world, it is a study in disorganisation. Take a look at what is happening in the Finance Department. You still find manual files moving from left, right and to the centre and disappearing at random. What we want is a total re-look and overhaul of the whole concept of PSC.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, these quick fixes of introducing new members to the Commission will not solve the problems that we have in PSC. What I want to suggest before we even go any further in this debate - because I can see it is not going to end anywhere - is that the Chairman of the Committee that did these interviews and brought these names to Parliament does the honourable thing and withdraws these names to give room for further consultations.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, it will not help even to stand here and talk about equity and regional balance if we do not look at the underlying issues that have made the PSC not to execute its mandate. This House has set a precedent of standing firm and making a decision based on principles and issues at hand. The only thing this House can do this afternoon in so far as the membership of PSC is concerned is to pull back, redraw the list and look at it afresh. Otherwise, from the look of things, this list is headed nowhere. Those names are going to be shot down and it will not help anyone.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I neither oppose nor support. Otherwise, my point is taken. Thank you.
Okay. Leader of Majority Party, take Floor.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. These names and this Report are in the House courtesy of Article 127(2)(d), where the PSC is supposed to vouch for one man and one woman from outside, who are not Members of Parliament, but with public experience. From the look of things, Members of this House who have the final say on the two nominees are divided. I want to offer leadership that I stand under Standing Order No.96 and ask the Mover to withdraw and go back, substitute and make sure, in my honest opinion, that the replacement for Nancy Barasa be from western Kenya, so that we can get regional balance.
So, I stand under Standing Order No.96 and ask hon. Keynan to postpone the Motion, withdraw and bring it again.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Millie Odhiambo. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I do not know if you heard the Leader of Majority Party calling the lady before the House, Nancy Barasa. I do not know if there is an issue with this “Barasa” name so that we can be informed as a House. This is the third Barasa and I think we are being very discriminative. So, even as we are going back as the Leader of Majority Party is proposing, perhaps, they may also come and advise the House adequately about it; including Barasa being summoned to the International Criminal Court (ICC).
Hon. Deputy Speaker, but other than that, the other issue I would want to ask even as you are seeking to propose is that I was listening very carefully and I want to confess that I do not know this Jennifer personally. I want to ask whether it is an issue that we are uncomfortable with strong women. Is it the issue? That is because if we are uncomfortable with a strong woman, then we will still reject the next strong woman who comes.
No. On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Finally, the other issue that I want them to look at – and, please, protect me from hon. Shakeel Shabbir! Even though I do not want everybody from my neighbouring county to be sent out from the House--- However, there are also the issues of regional balance, gender, Barasa issue and strong women that we must look at, so that we do not couch things in fancy words when we fear strong women like Mille Odhiambo.
Let us allow hon. Ababu one minute because it is 4.00 O’clock now.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I agree with the proposal by the Leader of Majority that this matter, perhaps, needs to go back and be re-looked at. But are we really in order to shift the basis upon which this House vets and determines nominees to various offices? I say that because this is not the first instance this House has had opportunity to do this kind of vetting and approval or disapproval. We have sat in Committees and listened to all sorts of allegations and claims brought against nominees to various offices, but we have always used a very verifiable and quantifiable basis, meritocracy, qualification and past performance. If we are going to shift the basis, so that if you and I have served on some board somewhere and we had a personal tiff and it becomes a basis for determination in this House, then we are in problems. If we are going to change the focus that personal differences out there become the basis upon which we determine the fate of nominees, it is a matter on which then we need to know that we have shifted the goal posts.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker.
I am on a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. A point of order cannot be disorderly or orderly. It is in order ab initio . This is an important matter because it is a matter of procedure, practice and custom. I want to submit that should the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
consultations determine that this lady be brought back to the House, the basis upon which we must judge her or any other nominee is merit; whether she is qualified for this position. Hon. Members, when this lady served as the Chair of the CDF Board, you were full of praise for the CDF and how far the CDF has come under her watch. I want to urge this House - and we may get excited and emotional and passionate - but you cannot change the constitutional and statutory basis upon which this House operates. This is a House of rules, customs and practice. We must decide whether we want to live by those rules, customs and practices or whether we want to shift goal posts.
Hon. Keynan, can we know what you want to do with this question before we continue? If it is going to be adjourned, then we will have further debate at a late date. But can we hear what hon. Keynan wants to say.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am one person who always believes in supremacy of the institution of Parliament. First of all, these two individuals must be appointed by this House. There is nothing that can go through without your firm acceptance of the two individuals. That is Pursuant to Article 127. That is the way it is. Taking into account what the Leader of Majority Party has said, because at times it is also good to reflect, first of all, I am only here as an agent of the Commission. Under the able leadership of hon. Justin Muturi, the Commission was unanimous on this.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to plead with the Members, please, let us project this House in a manner that befits our stature as representatives of the people of Kenya. Everybody has a right to be heard. Let us accord one another the dignity we deserve. Let us debate and eventually you will exercise your inherent right as a legislature to either accept or refuse. I want to take you to what hon. Duale said. He invoked the provisions of Standing Order No.96 as read with Standing Order No.51. I want to plead with Members to accept the withdrawal of this Motion for further consultations. I am sure your will, desire and thinking will prevail. Whoever you do not want will not be your commissioner. That is a reality. Therefore, with your acceptance, I stand to withdraw the Motion. The information from this House is very important.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I thank the hon. Commissioner for rising under Standing Order No.96. The fact that this Motion had been proposed under Standing Order No.58, becomes the property of the House. It can only be withdrawn by leave of the House. So, it is right for the Member to withdraw the Motion, but the Question to withdraw the Motion must be moved and seconded and therefore, put to the Members. Thereafter, we will give leave to withdraw the Motion because it is now the property of the House. So, I ask for directions. Looking at Standing Order No.96 and No.58, the Motion should be properly moved, seconded and if there is debate, the debate should be taken and the Question put. Thereafter, it can be withdrawn because it can only be withdrawn with the leave of the House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Debate has already been moved and seconded, hon. Kajwang. The Question that is being put is whether debate can be adjourned. It is the adjourning of the debate. It is not that you are withdrawing. If I understand you, you are under Standing Order No.96. So, the Question that we are putting is on the adjournment of the Motion. Withdrawal will mean that it will not come back. Hon. Members, I then, therefore, want to put the Question which is that the debate be now adjourned.
Hon. Members, there has been a request that we can spend another 20 minutes on the next Order because the time required by the Order on the Committee of the whole House---
Members, you are standing when the Chair is upstanding! So, I will move to the next Order just up to half past and then we can allow the Auditor-General to come and make his presentation. So, next Order!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, notwithstanding the resolution of the House of 16th May, 2013, regarding the appointment of Members to respective Committees, this House further approves the appointment of Members whose names are underlined and italicized to the respective Committees.
17. The Hon. Vincent Musau, MP 18. The Hon. Roba Duba, MP 19. The Hon. Dan Kazungu, MP 20. The Hon. Eng.James Gordon Kwanya Rege, MP 21. The Hon. Eng. Nicolas Gumbo, MP 22. The Hon. Racheal Ameso Amolo, MP 23. The Hon. Chris M. N. Bichage, MP 24. The Hon. Nicholas Ngikor, MP 25. The Hon. Joe Mutambu, MP 26. The Hon. Elmi Mohammed, MP 27. The Hon. Aburi Mpuri, MP 28. The Hon. Junet Sheikh Nuh, MP 29. The Hon. Mati Munuve, MP
10. The Hon. Samuel Gichigi, MP 11. The Hon. Elijah Langat, MP 12. The Hon. Cornelly Serem, MP 13. The Hon. Abdi Noor Ali, MP 14. The Hon. David Wanyama, MP 15. The Hon. Regina Nyeris, MP 16. The Hon. Wesley Korir, MP 17. The Hon. Kinoti Gatobu, MP 18. The Hon. Elijah Muindi Musomi, MP 19. The Hon. James Onyango K’oyoo, MP 20. The Hon. Omondi John Ogutu, MP 21. The Hon. Aisha Jumwa Katana, MP 22. The Hon. Patrick Wangamati, MP 23. The Hon. Rose Museu Mumo, MP 24. The Hon. Silvance Onyango Osele, MP 25. The Hon. Mustafa Idd, MP 26. The Hon. Nyasuna, Gladys Wanga, MP The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
27. The Hon. John Owuor Onyango Kobado, MP
18. The Hon. Esther Murugi, MP 19. The Hon. Gideon M. Mung’aro, MP 20. The Hon. Hezron Awiti Bollo, MP 21. The Hon. Suleiman Dori Ramadhani, MP 22. The Hon. George Oner Ogalo, MP 23. The Hon. Lekidime Lempurkel Mathew, MP 24. The Hon. Shakila Abdallah, MP 25. The Hon. Paul Otuoma, MP 26. The Hon. Thomas Mwadeghu, MP 27. The Hon. Magwanga Joseph Oyugi, MP
13. The Hon. Eng. Nicolas Gumbo, MP 14. The Hon. Ogolla Gideon Ochanda, MP 15. The Hon. Kyengo Katatha Maweu, MP The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
16. The Hon. Kamoti Mwamkale, MP 17. The Hon. Abdikadir Ore, MP
21. The Hon. Dalmas Otieno, MP 22. The Hon. Gideon Ochanda, MP 23. The Hon. Mutua Robert (Bishop), MP 24. The Hon. Bernard Munywoki Kitungi, MP 25. The Hon. Ferdinand Kevin Wanyonyi, MP 26. The Hon. Mary Sally Kerra, MP
30. The Hon. Samuel Gichigi, MP 31. The Hon. Alfred Agoi, MP 32. The Hon. Reginalda Wanyonyi, MP 33. The Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a, MP 34. The Hon. Omar Mwinyi, MP 35. The Hon. John Mbadi, MP 36. The Hon. Suleiman Murunga Kasuti, MP 37. The Hon. Omondi George Washington Mallan, MP 38. The Hon. Irshad Sumra, MP 39. The Hon. Jared O. Opiyo, MP 40. The Hon. Silverse Lisamula Anami, MP 41. The Hon. Dr. J. W. Nyikal, MP 42. The Hon. Benjamin Andola Andayi, MP 43. The Hon. Charles Mutisya Nyamai, MP 44. The Hon. Shukran Hussein Gure, MP 45. The Hon. Makali Mulu Benson, MP 46. The Hon. Chrisantus Wamalwa, MP 47. The Hon. Abdikadir Omar Aden, MP
12. The Hon. Paul Bii, MP 13. The Hon. Mohamed Aden Huka, MP 14. The Hon. William Kisang, MP 15. The Hon. Benard Shanali, MP 16. The Hon. Shadrack Manga, MP 17. The Hon. Charles Gimose, MP 18. The Hon. Vincent Musau, MP 19. The Hon. Richard Onyonka, MP 20. The Hon. Nicholas Nixon, MP 21. The Hon. Michael Kisoi Manthi, MP 22. The Hon. Rachael Ameso, MP 23. The Hon. Saney Abdi Ibrahim, MP 24. The Hon. Zainabu Chidzuga, MP 25. The Hon. Simba Arati MP
13. The Hon. Peter Njuguna, MP 14. The Hon. John Lodepe, MP 15. The Hon. Grace Jemutai, MP 16. The Hon. Abdul Rahim Dawood, MP 17. The Hon. Aramat Lemanken, MP 18. The Hon. Joseph Ngugi Nyumu, MP 19. The Hon. Kangogo Bowen, MP 20. The Hon. Eng. M. Maalim, MP 21. The Hon. Dr. David Eseli, MP 22. The Hon. Dr. Dahir Duale Mohammed, MP 23. The Hon. Omulele Christopher, MP 24. The Hon. Arama Samuel, MP 25. The Hon. Manson Nyamweya, MP
16. The Hon. Gideon Mwiti, MP 17. The Hon. Hassan Dukicha, MP 18. The Hon. Stephen Wachira, MP 19. The Hon. Jakoyo Midiwo, MP 20. Hon. Mwahima Masoud, MP 21. The Hon. Kasuti Suleiman Murunga, MP 22. The Hon. James Gesami Ondicho, MP 23. The Hon. Nasra Ibren, MP
10. The Hon. Alice Nyanchoka Chae, MP 11. The Hon. Mustafa Salim Idd, MP
Order, Members! The consultations are too loud. Hon. Members who are withdrawing, can you do it quietly?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, we have now brought back the changes to the various Departmental and Select Committees and we have done it in such a way that all the Members are listed here and where we have made changes, we have hyphenated the names. The only typographical error was on the Committee on Catering, where hon. (Dr.) Robert Pukose was there before and his name had been misspelt, and that of hon. Oscar Sudi. It was a typographical error and we are consulting the Clerk’s Office.
Very briefly, we are bringing these names because of four fundamental reasons. One, the CDF Act has been changed to allow more Members to be nominated. Two, the two joint committees between the National Assembly and the Senate have now been composed. Initially, we had the list from the Senate and we have brought the list from the National Assembly. These are the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity and the Committee on Parliamentary Broadcasting and Library. There was an amendment which was done on the law on the Committee on House privileges, which again, made us to increase the membership. Finally, to create some equity and balance among the general 349 Members, so that each and every Member of this House can be in one Departmental Committee and one Select Committee. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am not seeing my colleague, the Leader of Minority Party, I do not know where he is. He must be watching me because he is the one who raised issues last time. He should have been here today to second my Motion; but the able Whip of Majority Party and the Minority Whip and his deputy are here. I am sure they have the concurrence of their leader and that makes us to complete this exercise that has delayed for the last six months. So, this is a very simple matter before the House today. It is about changes that we have made since 16th May, 2013 and I will ask the Whip of the Minority Party, the hon. Mung’aro, to second so that we can go and do the other businesses.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand to second this Motion. I would also like to point out because I had watched my brother, hon. A.B. Duale, last week from wherever I was, and he was saying that there was an issue with the CORD leadership. I want to assure the House that there have been no issues. But both sides of the House had issues on allocating hon. Members to Committees. The problems we have been facing as a coalition is that, some hon. Members have been serving in three Committees for the last The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
few months. They will find it very difficult when they are told today that they will be serving in two Committees. Therefore, we have no issues; the list is quite in order and we have done enough consultations. I beg to second the Motion. If there are any issues, we will sort them out in the House.
Sorry, that was a request to contribute. I support this Motion, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Is that the feeling of the House?
Okay. Hon. Soipan Tuya.
Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I am not opposing the Motion, but I rise to seek some clarification. Looking at my Committee on Implementation and also the substance of Motion, it says that, hon. Members whose names are underlined and italicized are further appointed to the Committees. Looking at the Committee on Implementation, I have two hon. Members who have been serving in the Committee whose names are missing; hon. Dennitah Ghati and hon. Maweu. So, I would wish to know their status because they are up for some very important function to represent the Committee and without clarifications, then I do not know what to do with them. Thank you.
If it is not done on the Floor, maybe, you can approach the Whips and get to know whether they have been changed or moved to other Committees. But, otherwise, is everybody of the opinion that I put the Question?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, under Article 229(4), concerning the office of the Auditor-General and the functions and mandate given to him by the Constitution and following the Report of the Auditor-General on the Appropriations Accounts and the Accounts of funds of the Republic of Kenyan for the year 2011/2012, which I laid on the Table this Afternoon, and under Standing Order 31, I now do ask this House to adjourn. I will now ask hon. Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), hon. Ababu, to second my adjournment Motion.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, with due respect, I second.
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Hon. Members, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 9th October, 2013, at 9.00 a.m.
House rose at 4.15 p.m.
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