Order Members. We do not have the required quorum and, therefore, I order that the Quorum Bell be rung for 10 minutes.

Order Members. We now have the required quorum and therefore business will begin.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Sorry, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I was telling the Member for Kathiani that, as a leader, he should not be chased from a church. It does not look good. It is better to be chased from a stadium, but not from a house of God.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House: Reports of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements in respect of the following constituencies for the year ending 30th June 2017 and the certificates therein: 1. Laisamis Constituency. 2. Nandi Hills Constituency, and 3. Kitui Constituency.

Order, Hon. Kositany. Proceed, Leader of the Majority Party.

He is sitting next to the most beautiful lady in the House, the Member for Murang’a County. It is the neighbour who has distracted him and made him consult loudly. 1. Kitui West Constituency. 2. Mathare Constituency. 3. Butere Constituency. 4. Kuria West Constituency. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

5. Rarieda Constituency. 6. Turbo Constituency. 7. Kitutu Masaba Constituency, and 8. Makadara Constituency.

Let us have the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on its consideration of the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bill No.12 of 2018.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Let have the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Health.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Before I lay my Paper, there are Members of this House who go to media houses claiming that for anything to pass in this House, Members must be bribed. That is a very serious comment about this House. It is a shame. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we should have your direction on the same. We have Members who go from one media house to another tarnishing the names of Members of this House. They say that there is nothing that can pass in the House without Members being bribed. That is a serious allegation and an abuse of the House.

I will not react to that because I have no information.

I will inform you. This morning we had one Member of the House…

I do not expect you to name anybody without a substantive Motion. Now that you have mentioned it, you need to make a complaint.

I will even bring a recording.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Delegation of the Departmental Committee on Health on: 1. Capacity building workshop on viral hepatitis held in Cairo, Egypt on 19th to 20th November 2018. 2. 2019 Prince Mahidol Award Conference held in Bangkok, Thailand, on 29th January to 3rd February 2019. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

We will have the Member for West Mugirango, Hon. Kemosi Mogaka, asking the first Question. He is absent. So, the Question is dropped.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development the following Question:

(i) Is the Cabinet Secretary aware that the upgrading of Mumbuni-Kathiani, and Kenol- Kathiani roads has stalled despite having been allocated funds in the Financial Year 2011/2012? (ii) What steps is the Ministry taking to ensure that upgrading of the two roads is completed?

That one will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. The next Member to ask a Question will be Hon. Elisha Ochieng Odhiambo, Member for Gem.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to ask Question No.147 of 2019 directed to the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg your indulgence. There is a lot of noise headed by the Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Elisha, you know that the Leader of the Majority Party, by virtue of his office, consults from time to time on very serious issues. I will ask him to even consult more, but in lower tones. Proceed.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to ask Question No.147 of 2019 directed at the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs.

(i) What is the implementation status of the succession management policy in the Ministry, particularly with regard to career diplomats?

(ii) Why are some diplomats who retired in 2018 still in service? (iii) Could the Ministry provide a list of all diplomats who are serving and are beyond their retirement age?

That will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations. The next one is by the Member for Teso South, Hon. Omuse.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to ask Question No.148 of 2019 directed to the Cabinet Secretary for Education. (i) What is the implementation status of the computer laptops for primary school pupils’ project and establishment of computer classrooms in primary schools which have been receiving funding since the Financial Year 2013/14 to date?

That one will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. Next is Hon. Malulu Injendi, the Member for Malava.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to ask Question No.149 of 2019 to the Cabinet Secretary for Education. (i) Is the Cabinet Secretary aware that non-teaching staff in schools and other learning institutions lack schemes of service which hampers their career progression and salary increments despite the critical roles they play in these institutions? (ii) Could the Ministry consider developing schemes of service for the said staff?

That one will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. Next is the Member for Kwanza, Hon. Ferdinand Wanyonyi.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, my Question goes to the Cabinet Secretary for Education.

(i) What are the criteria used in the ongoing delocalisation programme for teachers?

(ii) Does the Ministry take into consideration factors such as age, locality, family status and welfare, and cultural values, among other factors in the delocalisation programme?

That one will also be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. Hon. Members, having satisfied myself as to why Hon. Kemosi did not ask the Question when it was first asked, I am obliged to rescind the decision I made to drop it and given him an opportunity to ask that Question.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order No. 42A(5), I rise to ask Question No.143/2019 to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Housing and Urban Development. (i) Could the Cabinet Secretary provide details of roads upgraded to bitumen standard in Kisii and Nyamira counties, which were budgeted for in the financial years 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

That one will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing.

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

What is out of order, Hon. Iringo? I just made a decision to give the Floor to Hon. Kemosi because he gave a good reason as to why he was not in the House. Is that what is out of order?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am not saying that the Member is out of order. I beg your indulgence so that you may give guidance to this House. I feel I should express this one to the House. A Member of this Parliament is trotting from one radio station to the other abusing Members of Parliament and saying that we queue to be given money so that we can pass Motions in Parliament. Yesterday, the same Member was on Kimeru vernacular radio speaking in Gikuyu and Kiswahili. I was listening and he said that Meru Members of Parliament queue in a certain office of a senior member of the Executive in this country to get money on Fridays and that is why we are supporting that person. I am seeking your guidance if that Member can be called upon to substantiate the things he said yesterday on radio. I am a Njuri Ncheke mzee and I am very honest in my works and in living. I never solicit for funds from anybody. That was total abuse. It was abusing my integrity and the integrity of Members of Parliament from Meru through raising that issue in a Meru vernacular station.

Order, Hon. Kubai. Of course, I will give my honest advice.

Name the Member.

Order, order! There will be no naming. If you do that, you will be out of order. Now, Hon. Iringo, you make very serious allegations. Unfortunately, as you may understand, I hardly listen to Meru radio stations because I do not understand the language. The advice that I can give you is that you have several avenues. One, you can report that matter to the Powers and Privileges Committee. It can be handled there. You can as well prepare a substantive Motion if you have to discuss your colleague. That is because whatever colleagues discuss in the media is different. They can do it without any Motions, but you can only approach it in those two methods I have asked you to, if you want to do so in the House. Well, there are many avenues, but the most critical are the two that I have given. Of course, I hear you, Hon. Iringo, because Members should not discuss each other in the Press. It is unbecoming conduct. What is it, Hon. Makau?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. There is a saying in English which says: “In by the gun, out by the gun”. I appreciate and hear the Member. If the same Member is in this House and he went to radio stations speaking Kimeru and Kikuyu, is it not in order for him to also go to the same stations and tell the same

the same thing before he brings that substantive Motion to the House?

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

On that, I will not even go to that direction because what you are asking me to do is to advise Members on their day to day behaviour. Now, Hon. Iringo has made a statement about which I have asked him and given direction on what he can do - he can either go to the Powers and Privileges Committee or brings a substantive Motion so that he can discuss the conduct of his colleague. Whatever else can be done in vernacular stations, hardly do we get to know what is happening there. Therefore, I will not encourage Members to go discussing each other at all. I see many Members are interested in speaking to this. I do not think this is a matter we need to open. What is it Hon. (Dr.) Makali? If you keep discussing the same thing, you give it unnecessary publicity.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this chance. I thank you for your direction in terms of the way forward. But even as you advise that, I think this is a dignified House. The reason we are called Hon. Members is because we are actually that. I request my colleagues, who are Hon. Members, to, please, stop being carried away by that space when they go to media houses. We have seen many of our colleagues who spend their time there and they are now in their houses. They are not in this House. Let us just be careful. The media houses are going to put you up there and bring you down one day. Be respectable and say things which can be justified, namely, things you can stand for and earn that respect. Hon. Deputy Speaker, even as you guide us, those who have that tendency of always being there, please, respect the Members. That is why we are called “honourable”. I like what Hon. Iringo has said that some of us have their respect, earned for many years. We do not want to go abusing the Members out there by just saying that people get hongo . What is the kind of money given there? We need to respect ourselves. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

You summed it all, Hon. Makali Mulu. You have spoken like an elder. I think that is the spirit; Members must respect themselves for them to earn respect. I still see there are Members who want to speak on it. What is it, Hon. Kathuri Murungi? I have given my advice.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Hon. Iringo has indicated that the Member who was in the Kimeru studio, mentioned Meru Members of Parliament. It is only that the Member is not here. He could really have had to substantiate whether it is only the Meru Members he was attacking or the entire House. I have never been to any office. You know me, because you are my Chair in the Liaison Committee, I have never been to any office. I am not known to be a solicitor of anything. That is why I am totally independent. I work between myself and God. I do not go through any intermediaries for anything. So, if he has really insinuated that, then, he has really stepped on the wrong wire because I will partner with Hon. Iringo to draft that Motion.

Hon. Members, we are beginning to discuss like there is a Motion. We will leave it there. I am not going to give any other Member an opportunity unless it is something different.

I do not think so. I will not agree if it is not going to be different, Hon. Chege Wanjiru. Hon. Members, please, be using your ordinary names. You keep changing names. You call The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

yourselves “elders”, another time your call yourselves “Chege”, another time “Wanjiru” and another time the name which the Leader of the Majority Party was calling you, which I cannot pronounce from here. Please, I hope it is a different matter. We are not going to discuss the same thing. That has been ruled.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Just to be on record, my name is “Maitu Sabina Wanjiru Chege”. Those are my official names.

On record, we do not have those many other names. Use the ones which are on record which is “Sabina”. You can pronounce it any other way. You can call it “Safina” or “Sabina”. Those are the names that are on record. We can leave the one of “Maitu” and “Elder” for another occasion.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As I said, mine is different. You know, we have Members of this House who have been given responsibility either as chairs, vice-chairs or ordinary members of committees. Maybe the Leader of the Majority Party, yourself and the leadership of this House, would like to give direction on where to draw the line between committee business and conflict of interest. Where do you stop if you have been given an opportunity to, for example, Chair the Departmental Committee on Education and Research? We know we have several Members of this House who are also members of unions. At what point do you differentiate between being a union member, a secretary general and a member of that committee? We know labour issues and committees. If I am the Chair of the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity, and I am again seen to be the person separating this nation, trotting from one church to the other and going to media houses speaking on the same, I would ask where we differentiate between conflict of interest and the responsibility as a Member of Parliament.

You are getting back to the same thing.

No, no, no! That is very different.

Is it conflict of interest? Well, let us hear. What is it, Hon. Mbadi?

My point of order is that we are spending too much time discussing local Meru politics instead of addressing national issues. I think it is high time we got back to the order of the day and utilise this time efficiently. You cannot just take the time of Parliament and mention ambiguous names. You are not even mentioning anybody. So, what are we discussing? When you tell us there is conflict of interest, who? Where is that conflict of interest? Why do you not just say it? If it is unions, we know we have Sossion here. We have Omboko Milemba, Tom Odege and Wambilianga here. You would just mention them by name and then you tell us where there is that conflict of interest and we can deal with it. By the way, even raising conflict of interest is something that should be tied to some Motion. You do not just wake up one day and start raising conflicts of interest which are not before us. We are misusing the time that Kenyans have given to us.

I will give a chance to the Leader of the Majority Party. But raising an issue of conflict of interest is a matter that can be seized of the House, easily. If Members are having conflicts of interest, they must declare them. If they do not, there are avenues which the House can use to resolve that matter. Let me hear the Leader of the Majority Party. What is it, now that the Leader of the Minority Party has said something? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. We need to make it clear that if you have to discuss a Member of this House, you need to bring a substantive Motion. You have made that clear before. The advice given by our brother, Hon Makali Mulu, sets everything right for us, as Honourable Members. The issue of conflict of interest is provided for in our Standing Orders. There must be evidence. There is an incidence that I heard over the radio that happened yesterday in the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. I am sure you will chair the Liaison Committee and the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research will brief you and the Committee. When we bring an issue touching on conflict of interest, we must also bring evidence, so that the substantive Speaker can give direction on the way forward. Chairpersons, vice-chairpersons and individual Members know that the element of conflict of interest is well grounded in our Standing Orders and the Constitution. For example, if before coming here you worked for a company as a senior manager and that company happens to appear before a relevant committee, you must excuse yourself because at one stage, you were part of that company. It is good that one declares one’s interests. One does that by not being part of the discussions or when it comes to voting, they do not participate. All these things are documented in the Standing Orders. When we get evidence, we will bring it forth with regard to the areas where there is conflict of interest. At one time, Hon. Deputy Speaker, you represented your organisation outside this House. Your direction is good.

Well, as you have put it correctly, that is a matter that can be seized by the House. However, as long as we do not have details and real information, we will leave the rest to the normal channels to handle. Please, let us proceed to the next Order.

On this particular one, the matter had been conclusively dealt with and what remained was for the Question to be put. Order, Members!

Next Order!

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, aware that village elders play an integral role in the functioning of the national Government at the village level by assisting chiefs and assistant chiefs in facilitating national Government services including promotion of education, handling security issues, solving disputes, promoting development initiatives, and social services in their villages through the “ Nyumba Kumi " initiative; concerned that these officers discharge these important duties without any facilitation by the Government; acknowledging the need to appreciate and motivate these village elders for the services rendered; cognisant of the resolution of the House of 28th July 2016, urging the national Government to consider giving a monthly or annual honorarium to village elders as a means of appreciating their services and encouraging their dedication to the community; this House further urges the national Government to formulate and implement a policy on the criteria for recruitment and remuneration of village elders. This Motion is borne out of the concern this House has for the basic administration units of the Government found in the villages. It is important for us to know who the village elders are. In every village, the first person who deals with Government matters is a village elder. However, it is not clear how village elders are recruited. It is almost certain that none of them gets paid by the Government. The village elders are variously known as area managers in some areas and they are also given other traditional names depending on where they come from. We have the “ NyumbaKumi” initiative, which is an initiative of the Government to try and bring order and the rule of law in the villages through an organised group that consists of cells of about 10 households. They are headed by village elders. The village elders are in charge of villages and they discharge important duties. It is important to draw a distinction between the village administrators, who are provided for in the County Governments Act and village elders. The distinction in most counties is clear. The village is the location. Therefore, the village administrator takes the rank and role of a chief in the county government. However, in the case that we have before this House this morning, we have villages as they are known and that is where the elders are found. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

What roles do the village elders play? Why is it important to appreciate them and if possible, remunerate them for the work they do? Why is it important that we have a policy on their recruitment? As I have said, village elders are the basic fabric of the Government system in the villages. They play a pivotal role as the first port of call when it comes to any Government matter that must be discussed in the village. In a few words, we can say that village elders are jacks of all trades and masters of everything. They are judges and magistrates in their local villages and they are also the ones in charge of the education system at the basic level. Security rests on their shoulders. They are the dispute mediators who try to solve disputes about land, marriages, divorce, dowry and anything else. The social work that they do is for free. The Government has not recognised them in spite of the fact that they render one of the best services that we have in the villages. The problem is that village elders do all this work without receiving any form of remuneration from the Government. In fact, I confirm and I have done my research that they are not even recognised officially because they are deemed to be a creation of either the assistant chief or the chief at the village level. It would be important if we had some form of uniform or even badges or whatever form of recognition for the village elders. In most cases, and this is not in dispute, village elders are paid in kind and some of the payments border on the bizarre. What they are paid is absolutely absurd. When we used to have local brews, possibly that is how they would be remunerated or if you have slaughtered a goat, you would offer him a goat head or something, which really is demeaning and is not what the Government should be doing for its citizens. It is important in this age and era to move away from practices that look like servitude, that we have people who are working without recognition. We have people who are working without a pay. These are people who are working without a policy in place on how they would be recruited and what form of remuneration they would be expected to receive. This is the reason this Motion is before the House today. I urge the House to discuss this matter in a sober manner, bearing in mind that village elders possibly are watching us in the villages and are waiting for us because they have always been rendering services. We just had an election two years ago and these village elders played a key role. In the ruling Jubilee Coalition, they were in charge of what was known as cluster 30 in which they did very well to deliver the votes. Recognition is therefore vital. It is important to have what we have said. If we can, we should give them uniforms, boots and badges as a form of motivation to render their services. Those who have read history will recall that there used to be an emperor in France known as Napoleon Bonaparte, who had this clarion call that men are led by toys and toys were the medals they were given when they did well. The net effect of that was to recognise a person who has done a good job and that person is likely to be motivated. Therefore, it is through this Motion that I call upon this House to pass a resolution that village elders should be recruited and remunerated through a policy and a formula that is going to be put in place by the Government of the Republic of Kenya. Let us appreciate that village elders serve the country dedicatedly. In fact, as I said, they are the first port of call. Whenever there is a problem in the village, you do not go to the chief or the assistant chief first. You go to the village elder who, if unable to resolve the problem, escalates it to the assistant chief and then to the chief. We must also recognise their unreserved commitment to duty. In most cases, you hardly hear any of them saying they will not solve a problem unless that problem is beyond their reach. It is also important to appreciate them in a very unrelenting manner because these people are committed to serve the community. I have had occasion to meet and hold discussions with them The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

in Tharaka Constituency. I have met them at various levels and they have always made the expression that ‘when you go to Parliament, please, urge the House to ensure that our interests are taken care of’. They ask me to urge the House to make a resolution to the Government that they should be recognised as either civil servants or any other cadre of servants recognised in our Civil Service system. I made this commitment to them and today, we have this Motion before the House. In conclusion, I would urge the House to consider in a very meticulous and sober manner to reward village elders. We urge the Government, and we use the word “urge”, to take this issue seriously. It is important to say that the Government should not take us to be a talking shop, where we pass resolutions like we did in July 2016 and then it is not implemented. It is also important for the Committee on Implementation to ensure that all Motions that are passed by the House are implemented by the Government. Therefore, let us recognise and reward village elders. Today, let us put in place a policy by the national Government that would set down criteria on how to recruit and remunerate village elders. With those words, I move this Motion and call upon my colleague, Nominee 001, Hon. David Sankok, to second. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I thank the Member who has moved this very important Motion. From the outset, I second the Motion because it is a Motion whose time has come. The country, by using the Nyumba Kumi elders without paying them or recognising them is a type of modern-day slavery. These elders, apart from being senior citizens, take roles that sometimes border on miracles especially when there are conflicts like divorce. I do not know how miraculously they work and bring people together. They are the same people that we use, through the Provincial Administration, when it comes to matters of security because they know every individual in particular villages. It is only noble for us not to urge, but to demand that the Government pays them something and recognises them. It is so simple to remunerate these people. We have many Government projects happening at the village level and the people we send to supervise these projects use a lot of money in terms of allowances and per diems . This money can be given to the village elders instead of officers going from Nairobi to monitor some projects and funds that the national Government gives to the people. I have in mind funds like the cash transfer funds, which we need to monitor on almost weekly basis. We need to know the status of the cash transfer funds to the elderly, persons with severe disability, orphans and vulnerable children. We need to know the economic status of those who are benefitting from the funds. If their economic status has changed, then they can be removed from the list and those who have lost their lives can also be removed from the list. If we have to pay people from Nairobi to go to Loiyangalani in Marsabit or to go to Mpeketoni to find out whose economic status has changed to be removed from the cash transfer programme, we spend a lot of money. If we have to send people all the way to Bondo to go and find out how many beneficiaries of the cash transfer programme have died, so that we can replace them…

Hon. Sankok, the rules of procedure demand that we do not get into other matters outside the Motion. You might end up confusing the membership. So, let us avoid the issue of you going to Bondo and other places and coming back. Just stick to the issue in the Motion that deals with elders. It will give light to the Motion before the House

Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Motion is to get funds to pay village elders. I have said that there are funds we waste by sending people to monitor some of the funds the Government gives to the people, going all the way to Bondo or The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Mpeketoni to monitor projects. They are paid per diems and mileage. Instead of paying them, we could easily get information as to who have died and whose economic status has changed by paying that money to village elders.We should not send people from Nairobi. As a House, we should not just be lamenting, but we should be giving solutions. Village elders should be paid knowing very well that it is this House that appropriates funds. We do not have another arm of Government that allocates funds. So, it is us to give solutions on how we can allocate funds to village elders.

I have heard stories of people being chased from church. It is very bad for you to be chased from a church, especially if you are an elder. That is what confused the Deputy Speaker. He did not get what I was saying. In church, we only chase Satan using the Holy Ghost fire and

However, when a Member is chased from church, it is worrying. That is what has worried the Deputy Speaker.

I am saying that we should not subject our elders to modern-day slavery. If we want to deal with the Al Shabaab, let us use the village elders. They know who is new in the villages and whose son has disappeared. They can easily report. How can they report such criminals and put their lives in danger when we do not even recognise them? They do not have uniforms or badges. They are just village elders volunteering to do what the Government ought to do.

That is modern-day slavery. This House should consider allocating funds for remuneration of village elders. I have suggested a very easy way of getting funds from the National Government Affirmative Action Fund for the cash transfer programme. They should also be given positions on school boards as well as serve as members of the Uwezo Fund. There is a slight way of recognising and remunerating them.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, village elders are very important in terms of pursuing our agenda of ensuring 100 per cent transition from primary to secondary school. If today there is a girl who has not gone to school simply because of early marriage, the County Commissioner sitting in the county headquarters, will not have detailed information from the village without the help of the village elder. The village elder will report such matter. However, if they do not have the means to get to the county headquarters, how will they report such matters? We need such reports and those who will give them to us are the village elders, who are recognised by everybody. We should not use another system that will cost more money. Let us first of all invest that money in village elders instead of recognising people through numbers.

I do not know if it is that number that we are told in the Bible will be used in end of times on people by the anti-Christ, but we have the elders who can recognise us instead of using numbers. With those many remarks, I second the Motion and urge Members to support it.

Hon. Members, I will interrupt the flow of this Motion immediately after proposing the Question, to allow the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock to lay a Paper.

Also, take note that I have been a Member of this House for a very long time. It is the first time I have seen a person seconding a Motion speaking for a longer period than the person who moved it. So, Hon. Sankok, you have gone on record as the first Member who has seconded and spoken longer than the Mover. It is not normal.

I now propose the Question.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Before I give a chance to the Members to contribute to the Motion, I give an opportunity to Hon. Abdullah Sheikh, Member for Mandera South, who is also the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, to lay a Paper.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I am actually Hon. Adan Haji Ali and not Abdulahi Sheikh.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House.

Report of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock on Consideration of Senate Amendment Proposals to the Irrigation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.46 of 2017).

Thank you.

Hon. Adan Haji, I am sorry for that oversight. Of course, I know you as a very active Member of the Liaison Committee, which I chair. I see many Members who want to speak. First of all, what is the issue, Hon. Osoro?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise with regard to time allocation for every Member speaking on this very important Motion. Aware that we are having several Private Members’ Motions today, and today being the last day of this Session, I propose that we limit time for every Member speaking to three minutes for this Motion, so that we can cover all the Private Members’ Motions listed on the Order Paper.

The relevant Standing Order is Standing Order No.97(3). I have, first, satisfied myself that you have raised the matter at the right time. For Members who want to refresh their memory, Standing Order 97(3) states as follows: “A Motion under paragraph (2) shall not be made in the course of the debate to which it refers unless it is moved after the adjournment of such debate and before the debate is resumed.”

So, you move it at the beginning of the debate. You have done it at the correct time. Therefore, I proceed to put the Question.

We will start with Hon. Injendi Malulu. Please, take three minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to strongly support this Motion. I had a similar Motion in the last Parliament. We have to support this programme. Looking at the County Governments Act, 2012, they have listed officers from the sub-county administrators up to the village elders. All these persons perform specific roles. Therefore, they have to be paid. I can tell you that county governments have managed to recruit up to the community administrator. In the next financial year, they will recruit village elders, who they will remunerate.

Looking at the National Government Coordination Act, 2012, it does not recognise the village elders who have been in existence since Independence. Of course, they have county commissioners, deputy county commissioners, assistant commissioners and chiefs. They have not recognised village elders who have been performing important functions for the national Government. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Therefore, without going into the functions these persons perform, I urge that we support this Motion. The Cabinet Secretary concerned should develop a remuneration and recruitment policy for these persons.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support.

The gentleman who is top of the list is Hon. Sankok. Unfortunately, he has already seconded. Therefore, he will not be given an opportunity. We will have Hon. Martin Owino.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. Practically, I am the only son of a chief in the House, widely known as

. My father worked with these people and I can say…

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Elisha, what is it? Is it about the chief or chieftainship? Come to the Dispatch Box.

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for Owino to speak Luo in this House by referring to himself as wuod chief ?

Hon. Owino, what did you say? I did not hear, but I rule you out of order because you have spoken in the language your colleague has condemned.

I think he has just repeated what I said: wuod

. Hon. Deputy Speaker, protect me from the Members so that I can state my points. I hope that has not taken my time.

Proceed, you are actually wasting it yourself.

I want to thank Hon. George. This is a very good Motion. I understand it was here earlier, but due to technicalities of putting the people on the payroll and wanting them to be below the retirement age, it was not possible. However, what is stated here is that these people are doing a very important job and should be considered for honorarium and monthly stipend, which is in order.

If it were not for the village elders, the divorce rate would be higher and suicides, which are rather epidemic, would be beyond repair. Concerning handling of cases, I can recall an incident when my dad handled a domestic violence. Each person used a different gate and one came in making a lot of noise after the village elders’ intervention…

The problem is that you are speaking about chiefs and we are speaking about village elders. But proceed anyway.

Yes, on how they are important to the chiefs as well. Due to the intervention of the village elders, many households have saved money and this has reduced poverty considerably. I think we do not need more criteria on how to select these people. Usually in the traditional order, you become an elder because of the command of respect you have in the village. What is missing is that these people work for 24 hours. They are counsellors, judges and lawyers in their own right. They maintain order in the villages, sub-locations and locations. Therefore, we should set aside a budget for them, which could be in terms of allowances or honorarium because through the Public Service Commission (PSC), this might not be possible. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support.

Let us have Hon. (Dr.) Pukose. I see Hon. Jimmy is complaining that he is an elder and should speak to this. He is an elder here and not a village elder. Proceed. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika kwa kunipatia fursa hii ili niweze kuchangia Hoja hii ambayo inaomba Serikali itengeneze sheria ya kuwezesha viongozi wa Nyumba Kumi na viongozi wa vijiji kulipwa marupurupu. Kwa muda mrefu, hawa watu wamefanya hii kazi bila malipo yoyote. Wazee wa mtaa wanasaidia sana. Ukipatikana na shida huko kijijini ama ukipata wageni, mzee wa mtaa anajua. Pia, wanasaidia watu kupata vitambulisho. Wanajua nani hajapata kitambulisho. Pia, jambo lolote linapofanyika kijijini, kama matanga, wanawakusanya watu pamoja ili kupata namna ya kuwasaidia walioadhirika. Hii ni fursa nzuri kwetu tulio ndani ya Bunge hili linaloheshimika la kitaifa kuhakikisha kwamba Serikali imetengeneza sheria ya kulipa wazee wa mtaa, viongozi wa Nyumba Kumi. Pia, inafaa tutenge pesa katika Bajeti za kuhakikisha kwamba jambo hili limetendeka. Tukiongea na kusema wakasa, wazee wa mtaa na viongozi wa Nyumba Kumi walipwe bila kuhakikisha kwamba tumetenga pesa katika Bajeti ya nchi, itakuwa kazi bure. Kwa hayo, ninaunga Hoja hii mkono kwa sababu ni muhimu sana. Pia, ninatarajia kwa kipindi kifupi sana hizi pesa zitapatikana na wazee wa mtaa huko vijijini watapata marupurupu yao. Kwa hayo machache, ninaunga mkono.

Hon. Muchangi, Member for Runyenjes. There is a problem with your microphone because I have given you a chance and it is not indicating. So, you may move to the next one.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to this very good Motion on our village elders. Let me start by saying that this is an idea whose time has come because village elders are a very famous lot. When people die in the villages, it is reported to village elders. When there is an issue which the Government needs to know, our people go to the village elders. These are a group of people who have been rendering services and working closely with chiefs and assistant chiefs and assisting the Government. Therefore, it is time we supported the idea of having them motivated and remunerated. When you met them, they are much organised. There are groups of junior, senior and retired village elders. We even have retired village elders who have never earned a coin and never been motivated and appreciated for the services they have been offering for their country. Many of them have even risked their lives. They attend to some issues that are risky. I support the idea of having them get something at the end of the month so that they are able to cater for their daily expenses. It is very shocking that there is something for the many people who work in our Government today, but there has been nothing for our village elders. It is time we remembered them and supported the idea of having them get something at the end of the month. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Next is Hon. Agoi Masadia.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this important Motion on remuneration of village elders. I have not had a chance to speak in this House for a while. We are so many and every time I request to speak, I never get a chance. So, I thank you for giving me this chance. My people in Sabatia may think that I am not a good speaker. I want them to know that we are so many and we do not always get a chance to speak every time we request. Sometimes, the Speaker’s eye does not catch me. Today it has caught me. I say thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Village elders are very important in our country. They do not even have favourable working hours. They work day and night but they are not remunerated. We have been told that Members of Parliament earn a lot of money and they do not work, but the village elders do more work and earn nothing. I support this Motion and say that the elders have to be paid. The Government has to put a policy in place which should also ensure that there is a method which is used to select them. The elders handle all manner of problems. When it comes to education, we depend on them to get the problems that are on the ground and help students. Right now, we have serious cases of defilement and students who have to go through 100 per cent transition according to the Government policy. We depend on the elders to look into those homes and get all those students in schools. We want to get those bad people in the villages to be apprehended so that we eliminate defilement cases. We depend on village elders who bring up the information to the chiefs and later on to the Government. Dispute resolution is very important. They are the first people who solve many domestic issues in homes because of lack of resources in these families. We have had problems with the economy. Families are going down financially and that has caused a lot of domestic problems and elders are the ones who are helping us to solve these problems. I request that the Government goes ahead and formulates this policy. Instead of saying “this House further urges the Government”, we should say the “House directs the Government to formulate and implement a policy on the criteria for recruitment and remuneration of village elders.” Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

We will have Hon. Mwirigi Paul.

Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika. Nimesimama kuunga mkono Hoja hii ambayo itawasaidia sana wazee wanaosaidia kule vijijini. Wazee hao huwa wanafanya kazi usiku na mchana kuhakikisha kwamba tuna usalama wa kutosha na hakuna kitu wanachopata. Ndiposa asubuhi ya leo ninauliza Serikali iangalie na iweke mikakati mwafaka ya kuwasaidia wazee wa vijiji. Hii ni kwa sababu wazee hao wanajitolea kufanya kazi ambayo saa ingine inahatarisha maisha yao. Hili ni jambo ambalo Serikali yafaa kulishughulikia. Wakati kama huu Serikali inasema kwamba watoto wote wanafaa kwenda shule za sekondari. Wazee hawa huhakikisha kwamba watoto hao wamejiunga na shule. Wakati ambapo kuna migogoro katika vijiji vyetu na watu kupigana, ni wazee hawa ambao wako katika msitari wa mbele kwenda kushughulikia mambo haya au kuwafanya watu hao washirikiane kwa pamoja ili mizozo iweze kuondolewa. Serikali ina jukumu kubwa la kuhakikisha kwamba wazee hao wanapata hela angalau za kuwafanya wasikie kwamba Serikali inawashughulikia wakati ambapo wanafanya kazi hii. Vilevile, ningeomba Serikali pia iwapatie wazee hawa ambao wanasaidia kule vijijini sare ili wakati wanafanya kazi hii, wajue kwamba Serikali inawashughulikia. Pia ikiwezekana wawe na afisi ambapo wanafanyia kazi kwa sababu wazee hao ndio walio karibu na wananchi wenye shida au mahali kwenye mambo yanayoleta kutoelewana katika vijiji. Wakati huu gharama ya maisha imeenda juu. Vilevile wakati wazee hawa wanapofanya kazi hii…

Your time is over. Next is Hon. Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. First, I thank Hon. Murugara for this Motion, who is popularly known as Sir George. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Sorry. Member for Chepalungu, I have actually pressed your line. So, please you will have to put it at the intervention slot so that you do not get disadvantaged. Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As we discuss this Motion on the village managers, maybe what we need to identify as we talk about their remuneration is to ask ourselves exactly what these village managers do. They actually are the link between the national Government and the grassroots and they represent law and order in the villages. If someone dies in the village, this is the person who is likely to be the first one on site. Whether it is natural death or crime related, they will be the first ones there. They are expected to be there. If there is theft in the village, they are expected to also be there to handle that issue. If there is any case of domestic violence like someone beating his wife, they will be expected to be the first ones there. These are people who are constantly on the ground handling issues of divorce, fights over property, death and boundary disputes on behalf of the Government. Whenever we pass Government policy – like recently we talked about 100 per cent transition from primary to secondary school – we expect that to be implemented, but the machinery the Government can use to identify those children that have not gone to secondary is through the same village managers. Our Labour Act says we should not have children being used as child labourers. It is still the same people who will identify and ensure this Government policy is adhered to. In the Education Act, we talk about children not being sent away from school. They are also the same ones who are expected to ensure that children stay in school. So, these are people who really work. Even when we are giving funds to the grassroots, we invite them. For example, when we give bursaries, they are the ones who help us identify the beneficiaries but their children cannot benefit because, of course, everyone in the village will say: “You are our leader. You cannot benefit.” When we are identifying people for the cash transfer programme, they are still the same ones who assist the Government in doing the identification. Again they are denied because they cannot benefit themselves. When there are issues to do with relief food, they are also the ones that identify the people that should be assisted. So, these are people that do a very critical role for this Republic. Article 41 of the Constitution states that every person has the right to fair labour practices. These are employees because they work on behalf the Government. Article 41(2) states…

Let us have Hon. Jimmy Nuru Angwenyi.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute to this issue of the elderly people. Village elders are the first element of administration in this country. I lived in a family which provided chiefs, assistant chiefs and village elders. In those days, village elders were appreciated by the community to the extent that goats, chicken and wimbi would be taken to their homes for their consumption. That does not happen anymore. Village elders solve land issues. Especially where I come from, there are many land issues. Before they get to the courts, most of them are solved by the village elders. Village elders identify youth that are being radicalised to join terrorist groups. Village elders participate in marriage ceremonies so that they can identify if a child is below the age of marriage. Village elders know the issues that affect our people at the grassroots. We passed a Motion of this type three years ago. I am glad my colleague George was able to revive this. This time we should make a resolution that village elders should be paid a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

minimum of Kshs10,000 a month. They should also be enrolled in the National Health Insurance Fund (NHIF) so that their families can enjoy some medical and health services. They can be given some form of uniform so that they can be easily identified. We do not even have to set a system of how they are recruited. They are recruited by the families concerned. They are the ones who decide that so and so will be a village elder. They listen to him or her. Let us pass this Motion and make sure that funds for village elders are included in the next Budget which will be read to us next month. With those few remarks, I support the Motion.

Hon. Owino said that he is the only son of a chief in this House. I agreed with him because Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi is the son of a senior chief. There is a difference between a chief and a senior chief. Let us have Hon. Abdullaih Sheikh

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I will talk about the importance of chiefs. Every Kenyan knows the roles and functions of an elder. They play a very critical role and we all agree that they need remuneration. This is the National Assembly. We also have the Senate. The aspect of village administrators or elders is catered for in the County Governments Act of 2012. It already exists. Why are we spending all this time debating an issue that already exists? It is already passed. County governments have already recruited up to ward administrators. What remains is for them to recruit village administrators or village elders. Is it a matter for this House to dwell on? I want your guidance on this. Why are we talking about something that is already catered for in the County Governments Act? Why are we urging the national Government to remunerate the village elders and village administrators? Their work and role is superb. The society needs them. Is it not the Senate that is supposed to enforce their recruitment? It is a function of county governments because it is in the County Governments Act. The County Governments Act of 2012 specifically talks about the role of village administrators. They have not been recruited.

You are talking about a completely different set of people. Village administrators as per the County Governments Act are completely different from village elders. They are remunerated. They are paid. The ones we are talking about are the village elders under the national Government.

In most counties, village administrators have not been employed or deployed yet. We have village administrators and village elders.

Either way, I do not want you to confuse the two. If there is an issue about village administrators, it has to be brought separately. As far as I am concerned, this Motion is about village elders who are attached to chiefs. Chiefs are on the side of the national Government. The county ones are different. I do not know whether he requires your information. Hon. Sheikh, do you require any information?

From the outset, I said that the role of village elders is very important and paramount. My only issue was who is supposed to remunerate them. We want village elders in every village to be remunerated for what they do. Who is supposed to remunerate them? That is the only issue I am talking about. That is great. The most important part is that they should be remunerated. It is good to have clarity on who is supposed to do it. There are village administrators that exist in the County Governments The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Act. It is good that this House is urging the national Government to absorb the village elders. We have taken too long to take care of that. I support the Motion that village elders be remunerated and absorbed by the national Government. The clarity on where the funds are supposed to come from needs further guidance. I support the Motion.

Let us have Hon. Nakara Lodepe, Member for Turkana Central.

Mheshimiwa Naibu Spika, ningependa kuungana na wenzangu ambao wameunga mkono Mjadala huu vilivyo. Sera ni kanuni ambazo zinatusaidia kufanya uamuzi ulio bora. Hatuwezi kuwasaidia wazee wa mtaa kama hakutakuwepo na sera ambazo zitawalinda na kuwafaidi. Ili kuwasaidia wazee, ni lazima tuwe na sera ambazo zitakuwa sheria na zitafuatwa kikamilifu ili baada ya Serikali yoyote kuingia ama kutoka, tutakuwa tumeweka sera ambazo zitawasaidia wazee. Tunahitaji sera ambazo zitakuwa sheria ili Serikali iwajibike kwa ajili ya wazee. Tusipokuwa na sera, itakuwa vigumu kufanya Serikali kuwajibika. Hiyo ndiyo sababu Bunge hili lazima litengenenze sera ili Serikali isipowalipa wazee, tunaweza kuipeleka Serikali kortini kwa sababu tutakuwa na sera ambazo tumeziweka. Sera hizi zitashughulikia mahitaji yote ya wazee. Hawa wazee wanafanya kazi kubwa sana katika vijiji vyetu. Hawa wazee ndio hakimu katika vijiji, wanatoa uamuzi ulio bora na wanaleta amani katika vijiji. Sera hizi ambazo tunaziweka katika Bunge hii lazima ziwasaidie wazee hao. Sio tu fedha peke yake. Tunataka Serikali iweke sera ambazo zitazawadi wazee hao. Kuna wengine ambao hawajawahi kufanya kazi maisha yao yote na hawana bima ya maisha na pesa za uzeeni. Kwa hivyo, tukiajiri hawa wazee, itabidi Serikali pia iwazawadi kwa kuwapatia mashamba ili wajijengee nyumba ama Serikali iwajengee ili waishi maisha ambayo ni mazuri.

Mhe. Naibu wa Spika wa Muda, serikali ya ugatuzi imefanya kazi iwe rahisi kwa sababu imeajiri wawakilishi wa wadi. Kuna wawakilishi wa wadi na hiyo imefanya serikali ya kaunti kuhudumia wananchi. Nina mfano mzuri katika kaunti ya Turkana ambayo imeajiri mwakilishi wa wadi ambaye ni ward administrator . Sasa hivi, County assembly imepitisha sheria…

Members, I want to ask you to kindly relax. There is a lot of interest in this particular subject. We will do what we can. We can only have one Member speaking at a time. So, relax. If you get a chance to contribute, you will say something. We will move on swiftly, Hon. Njiru Muchangi, Member for Runyenjes, you have contributed to this Motion. We shall have Hon. Wamalwa now.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. At the outset, I support this Motion. This Motion was in the 10th Parliament, 11th Parliament and now 12th Parliament. As we move on, is it in order for Parliament to be legislating in vain? This matter is at the implementation level. If at all the Motion was not implemented, it is the time to come up with a Bill. It will be nice for Hon. George to move ahead and look at the Chiefs’ Act. If he can come up with a Bill, it will add value. We cannot keep on The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

repeating the same Motion and we are not going anywhere. It is wastage of Parliament’s time. We cannot continue legislating in vain.

Hon. Wamalwa, although you are saying sensible things, you are out of order because this particular Motion was approved by the House Business Committee. It has its considerations for listing it down. The direction you are taking on this particular matter that we are discussing would be better served, if the proponents were to come up with a Bill, so that it can have authority of an Act of Parliament. You are capable of sitting down with Hon. Murugara who is a senior advocate of the High Court and knows these things, to come up with a way forward that will be more useful to all of us.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As we move on, when you bring up a Bill in this House and a similar Bill had been passed, you are advised not to move it. The same precedent should apply when it comes to Motions. There must be a framework whereby if a Motion had been passed on the Floor of the House, you do not have to bring back the same Motion. This is what happens when it comes to Bills. This will help us in moving forward. We agree that village elders play a very critical role in matters of family conflicts and Government policies like the Big Four Agenda. When I go to my village, I hear the village elders talking about the Big Four Agenda.

We are talking about the National Integrated Identity Management System (NIIMS), the

Number and the census now. The village elders play a very critical role. Indeed, they should be given honorarium or be remunerated. The best thing is that we should move with speed and look at the Chiefs’ Act, so that we can follow through. This is a Motion with financial implication. So, we need to work it out with the Budget and Appropriations Committee so that we can demonstrate the…

Hon. Nkatha.

(Tharaka – Nithi CWR), JP): Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion. However, I would like to ask my friend and brother, Hon. Murugara, if it is possible we change the name “village elders” to “village administrators” so that it can take care of the old and the youth. I am inquiring if it is possible for him to do that.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

We shall now have Hon. Wanyonyi Kevin, Member for Kwanza.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute. I want to echo what Hon. Chris Wamalwa has just mentioned. We discussed this Motion. Therefore, at this stage we want to ask the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning to assist us to fast track it and give the elders money. These are very important people. We understand what they do. They are the people who understand what is done in the villages.

In my constituency, I use them to vet those students who deserve to be given bursaries. They are very important people. They are the first people who help us when there are security issues in various areas. I, therefore, want to ask the Mover of this Motion to go further and make it a Bill. We discussed this Motion in 2016. It was passed in this House. I was surprised because the Committee on Implementation has not looked at this Motion. We want the Committee on Implementation to look at this particular Motion, so that they can fast track it and possibly ask the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to have a supplementary budget for the same so that these elders can be paid as they are so important. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

We have cases where there is a divorce. These are the first people who understand the culture of people in various areas and deal with that. When there is a quarrel and Government information to be passed to the areas, they are the people who carry it. They are very important. They are more important than the assistant county commissioner and deputy county commissioner because they are the ones who make the first call.

Without wasting too much of the time, I want to give a chance to the other Members. We want the Mover to see whether we can have a supplementary budget for these people, so that we can start paying them this year. I support the Motion.

Hon. Members, I would like to hear some contribution on the mechanism of the proposed payment to these elders. We seem to be in agreement that they should be paid, but what is the mechanism of doing that in light of the reality of Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) and the employment legal regime in the country? How can we go about that? We need to speak to that so that we can find a way forward. Hon. Mutunga Kanyuithia, Member for Tigania West.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to add my voice to this Motion. We cannot have development unless we reach the people properly. We need to hear their ideas. The only way we can be in contact with the people is to involve these village elders in the development of this country. If we do not do that, the Kenyan economy will not grow.

On the mechanism to pay the village elders, we need to recognise their positions. We need to understand their backgrounds in terms of their schooling levels, experience of what they have done in their life and recruit them accordingly. They are important people in the sense that where Nyumba Kumi Initiative is working, we have security, order and people progress in development. The mechanism should basically be for identification and positioning these people and recognising them in terms of remuneration. We need to also motivate them so that they can continue working well. I can bring experiences from my constituency, Tigania West. We lost very efficient and well organised members of the Nyumba Kumi Initiative because the leaders were not recognised.

Initiative could even organise our events during campaigns, but unfortunately they are no longer there because village elders have not been recognised. We need some standards as well. Without a mechanism, we may not have the standards for remunerating these people. Today, they may be treated through skewed standards and some of the elders are involved in recruitment. For instance, where I come from, when we need police reservists, the village elders identify the best personnel to be recruited. Therefore, they need to be people soundly grounded in the community. Therefore, they need to be willing and ready to do their work. The best people value themselves and time. They also value contribution to their development. Without recognition, they may not take up the responsibility, as it were.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support the Motion.

Hon. Adagala.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. I thank Hon. Murugara for bringing the Motion at this time, although Hon. Wamalwa said it has been there all through. Since it has been deliberated in the previous House, this is the right time for the issue to be solved once and for all. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Village elders do a great job in our villages. They are the first people on the ground to get information before it reaches assistant chiefs and chiefs. I have seen it happen in my area. Those old men and women do a lot of work. They go from one house to another. In case of anything concerning the Government, village elders make sure that the information reaches the people where they are. In some cases, they go out during the rainy season and sometimes to hostile environments. They are always out there working to ensure that there is peace, and that information reaches people.

I urge the Government to give village elders a monthly stipend to enable them work even at night. They use spotlights, and sometimes they may not have dry cells. Most of them do not have electricity in their homes. A monthly stipend would encourage them to work with the knowledge that they are working for the Government. It should be a small stipend to manage their daily lives or buy food for the family or for medical expenses.

The National Assembly is discussing this issue for the third time. It is time it is resolved once and for all to ensure that village elders are given a stipend to make their work easy as they assist assistant chiefs and chiefs in the villages.

With those remarks, I support the Motion.

We shall now give a chance to the elder in the House, Hon. Muturi Kigano, Senior Counsel.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion primarily if its jurisdiction will have a bias for fighting terrorism. Terrorism is nurtured at the village level. We should replicate what happens in Ethiopia. Ethiopia has had no incident of terrorism primarily because the village elders control and contain people who visit the village.

I support the Motion only on the basis to have fighting terrorism as its primary objective.

Hon. Sitati, Member for Webuye West.

Hon. Dan Wanyama Sitati, move to the next microphone. You are not clear. Give him the next microphone.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. At the outset, I support the Motion with the knowledge that village elders are the foundation of the national Government. For a long time, the national Government has taken them for granted. The best way to motivate them to do their work is by giving them a stipend.

Nowadays chiefs are given imprests. I wish the Ministry could increase the imprests given to chiefs to cover an allowance for village elders so that they can also know that the Government appreciates them. All issues pertaining to information the Government would want to get is received from the village elders. Honestly, as other Members have put it, the 10th and 11th Parliaments discussed this matter. We are now debating it again. Let it bear some fruits. These leaders do a great job. For sure, they burn the midnight oil as they are on duty 24/7, yet they have never been appreciated. We have talked about it year in, year out, but nothing has come out of it. I believe this is the last time we are discussing it. The implementation of this Motion should start forthwith once we pass it. I suggest to the Ministry to increase the imprests they give to the chiefs so that it covers allowances for village elders as well. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Abdisalan.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also rise to support the Motion.

There is no doubt that village elders are the entry point into locations and sub-locations. Therefore, they should be given incentives to motivate them for the work they do. Chiefs and assistant chiefs work closely with village elders. Most of the committees they have established at the location and sub-location levels consist of village elders. Most relief committees are selected from village elders because they have excellent contextual understanding of the village and do proper priority ranking of who is worse than another in terms of availability. The same applies to the peace committees. Because they have excellent contextual understanding of the area; the

initiative and identification of visitors in a location is done by village elders. The same happens in the land and grazing committee and any committee established at the location and sub-location levels. The fact is that village elders are not motivated in any way hence the need for us to give a special consideration, especially in the Budget allocation to ensure that they are motivated for the work they do. It is high time the Committee on Implementation gave special consideration to these village elders. When the foundation is strong, the other parts will be strong. When the location and sub-location levels are strong, other units be it the division, sub-county and national levels will be strong. There is need to give special consideration to village elders at the sub-location for work they have already done. All we are saying is that the work is ongoing and therefore the village elders should be allocated money in the Budget. Why not give them that special priority in the Budget and work with them closely?

That said, of course, there is need to avoid duplication between the village administrators and the national Government. They can work closely and based on the devolved functions, we can know which committee to give what function. Both levels can do the remuneration.

Thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Alfah Ondieki, Member for Bomachoge, what is your point of order?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Having discovered that this Motion was brought before this House in the last Parliament in 2016, and given that all Members have unanimously agreed that this Motion is very important, that village elders should be catered for and observing the mood of the House, everybody is in support of this Motion, I stand under Standing Order 95. Can you allow the Mover to reply and move to the next Motion?

We shall proceed. Hon. Mongina.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance. From the outset, I support this Motion. This Motion is long overdue. The village elders have done a lot for this country. They are attached to our chiefs. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

These are the people who give the basic information from the villages. They have been involved in major development projects which we do in our communities.

Let the world know that in Kenya, we have not thought so well about the village elders. Even those ones who are Christians, the Bible says: “man eateth where he worketh”, but the village elders work and they have never been paid. It is long overdue. They should be recruited and remunerated. Above all, these are the most important people who give information that the Government needs. They have done a lot in terms of encouraging people and students from villages to go to school. Whenever there is an issue, these are the people who are contacted. They should be remunerated. We are not urging the Government now, we want to compel the Government so that come the next financial year, the money necessary for their remuneration is put in the Budget. I support the Motion. Thank you.

Member for Nyamira, you have the opinion that village elders should eat where they work. We shall give this opportunity to the Member for Bungoma, Hon. Wambilianga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. I also rise to support this Motion that seeks to implement a policy and criteria on how we will remunerate the village elders. It has been discussed here before that village elders are important people in our societies. These are people we rely on in the villages. Looking at the age bracket and from the name, these are very reliable people. We have used them in the past and they have not been remunerated.

I look at the village elders and the kind of work they do is like charity work. They have done charity work for a long time. Matters security, dispute resolution and domestic resolutions are all sorted out by these village elders. These people bring harmony in our villages. They have brought a lot of stability especially where there are disputes in the villages because they are very conversant with daily happenings of any village. We even rely on them as politicians in collecting our daily data. For example, when we want to allocate bursaries, we do not know the correct people to allocate. Sometimes there are complaints in the villages that the deserving people have not been allocated bursaries, but if we use them, they will give us the right statistics. We also use them to get school dropouts to take them back to school. Real matters come from these village administrators. With regard to Persons Living with Disabilities (PLWDs) that need our help, we also get reliable information from such village administrators. Therefore, as a House, I congratulate Hon. George Murugara for bringing this Motion because it is one that needs to be supported. I believe this Motion will see the light of the day and these village administrators are going to be considered. On ways of how the Government will raise money, I am sure when this House makes some budgetary allocation, those elders will be remunerated bearing in mind that they are both women and men of stature in society. They should be considered.

Hon. Hulufo Oda, Member for Isiolo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to indicate from the very beginning that I support this Motion. Of course, our elders play a very key role in maintaining law and order in the villages. I cannot imagine how this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

country will look like without village elders. The chiefs and sub-chiefs are not able to implement what they are required to do without the council of elders. In other countries like Ethiopia, which I am familiar with, it is the council of elders who manage a lot of the security issues in the villages. The roles they play have enabled the Government to control issues like radicalization of the youth. However, elders are not remunerated in Ethiopia; they have special recognition. So, in as much as we are thinking of how we can have our elders paid in recognition of the good work they do, we also need to think of other ways of recognising their good work. For example, we can give them awards such as the Head of State Commendation (HSC) together with special identification so that wherever they go, they can introduce themselves and be listened to and accorded respect. Where I come from, we only have a court of law at the county headquarters. Because of that, a lot of disputes are resolved by elders. This is in line with the provisions of the Constitution on alternative dispute resolution mechanisms. Where there are marital disputes, before couples go Kadhi’s Court, the first port of call to seek reconciliation is the council of elders. In the context of northern Kenya where we have pastoralists, without the council of elders we would be having a lot of conflicts and the region would be ungovernable. Village elders resolve tribal conflict, including clan conflict. Most of the time when they do this work they risk their own lives. Some of them get injured. Others have even lost their lives. As and when they get injured in the process of volunteering to make sure we have a cohesive community, there is nothing that the Government does to take care of their medication. So, something like providing them with a medical cover would probably be of help to them. We can think of how best we can remunerate and motivate our council of elders. Thank you.

The Member for Matungu Constituency, Hon. Murunga.

Shukrani, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili pia nami niongeze sauti yangu kwa huu mjadala. Hawa wazee wa kijiji ni wananchi wema kwa sababu wanafanya kazi nzuri. Wao ndio husaidia nchi kupokea habari za jambo lolote linapotokea katika eneo lolote nchini. Hili ni jambo ambalo lingefanywa kitambo. Ni wazee ambao hujitolea; hutoka majumbani mwao mapema na kurudi usiku.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Nkatha, what is out of order?

Very well, that is true. I can hear it from here. I will direct the Table Office to look in to it. Proceed hon. Murunga.

Ahsante, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Unavyofahamu, hawa ni watu ambao wana familia. Wakitoka kufanya kazi hizi, wako na majukumu ya kulea familia zao. Wako na watoto ambao wanaenda shule na vile vile wana mahitaji. Kwa hivyo, ni vema sisi kama viongozi tuwasaidie ili waweze kujisikia kama Wakenya wengine. Ni vigumu kuwa katika viatu vyao. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Kwa mfano, ukitoka kwa nyumba kwenda kujenga nchi na unaporudi nyumbani uwe huna hata mkate uliobebea wanao, hilo ni jambo baya. Ni vema sisi kama Bunge tulichukulie hili jambo kuwa la dharura na kuhakikisha kuwa hawa wazee tunawasaidia ili waweze kupata mshahara kama wafanyikazi wengine nchini. Kwa hayo machache, naunga mkono hoja hii.

Hon. Members, it is true that there is a malfunctioning machine on the row behind Hon. Nkatha. I am informed by the technical people that they will look into it when the House rises. So, kindly bear with us for the time being. Let us have Hon. ole Lemein Korei.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. I want to agree with the earlier speakers who have contributed to this Motion. I like what you said that it is high time we looked into this matter so that it is implemented. The village elders are important people in the Republic of Kenya. They are important in the sense that every time the Government requires information, they are on the ground and are contacted. They collect the same data and pass it on to the Government. The only problem these particular elders have is that whenever they are working, they use their resources and time and yet they do not get a stipend. What is important is for the Government to appreciate them for the work they do. As the rest of my colleagues have said, it is a 24/7 business for them. Every single day these people wake up and do the jobs they are requested to do without raising a finger. So, I want to concur with my colleagues that we need to look for a way of assisting them. At least, they should get honorarium so that they can do their jobs better. Thank you.

Hon. Dawood Rahim, Member for North Imenti.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to congratulate my brother and neighbour, Mhe. Murugara, even though we are fighting over boundaries. However, I join others in supporting this Motion on village elders. It is true that in 2016 we passed in this Parliament what we are supposed to give elders. Prior to that, in the year 2014, I spoke to my Deputy County Commissioner (DCC) and I was going to make the village elders from the sub-areas some uniforms. However, I was informed that the Government will be doing something about it. Some of my colleagues have said that county governments have got village elders, but I think those are different from what we have. These ones will be under the national Government. If they were to be given stipends, then that has to come from the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government in the same way it is done for chiefs and assistant chiefs. The village elders will be one rank below the assistant chiefs. In all the places in this country, people know how important a village elder is. They are present all the time. Not all of them are old. In my constituency, there are about 40 to 50 who are under the age of 35 or less than 40 years and they are still elders because the people around them in the villages they serve believe those are the people who will forward their issues to the Government and they work day in, day out without expecting anything in return. The least we could probably do is to give them uniforms and some money so that they can move from one place to another to do the good work they do. In fact, we will need them mostly during the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

census. I wish the CS Rotich can include them in this Budget which he is going to read in June so that we can cater for them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thank you and support my brother.

Hon. Wangaya, Member for Khwisero.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to also join my colleagues in supporting this Motion that village elders must be remunerated, appreciated and supported. On Friday last week, we had an attack in Khwisero and the first person to relay this information to all of us was a village elder. I stand today to say that as a House we must graduate from Motions to Bills that can anchor this proposal in law so that these people can be supported. Village elders are a link between the public and the Government. They disseminate very serious Government information and Government policy to the public. We use these people for many activities like Nyumba Kumi operations, security operations and many other tricky and very dangerous operations. It is only fair as a nation that we appreciate by allocating something, even if it is in form of responsibility allowance, for them to sustain themselves and their families. In Luhyaland, these people only get some token in the form of amakata and these things sometimes encourage corruption because people who have problems approach village elders and for them to get something, they demand for something called amakata . So, it is only fair that as a House we support this Motion that the Government should remunerate them. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Kutuny.

Nashukuru sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Awali kidogo nilikuwa na wasiwasi kwa sababu nimekitegea sana hiki kidude. Nashukuru kwa fursa umenipa. Wazee wa mtaa ni uti wa mgongo wa taifa. Kwa masuala ya kuunganisha jamii, wao ndio uso wa Serikali. Hawa ndio wanashughulikia masuala ya usalama wa kijamii. Matatizo yakiwepo kwa jamii, wao ndio huleta watu pamoja. Serikali ilipoanzisha Nyumba Kumi, ilikuwa inategemea wazee wa mtaa waishughulikie. Lakini ukiangalia hali yao, wamezorota. Ukiangalia jinsi machifu na wakubwa wengine wa Serikali wanashughulikiwa, utashangaa jinsi wazee wa mtaa wameachwa bila kushughulikiwa. Wao pia wana watoto wanaowasomesha. Vilevile wana makao, lakini ukiangalia makao yao, hayastahili watu ambao wanafanya kazi kwa Serikali. Vilevile wana famila za kutunza na kupatia chakula. Afya ya wengi imezorota. Hatua za Serikali za kuimarisha hali yao duni ni kama kusema; “kufa kwa inzi kidondani sio hatia.” Hata hii haingekuwa Hoja. Ungekuwa Mswada ili tuitunge sheria kama Bunge kushurutisha Serikali kuwalipa wazee wa vijiji kama wafanyikazi wengine was Serikali. Kwa hivyo, naunga mkono wenzangu kwamba Hoja hii tuipigie kura ya upato tukitarajia kwamba Serikali itaitilia maanani. Tatizo ni kwamba Hoja inazungumziwa hapa lakini haishughulikiwi. Kwa hivyo natarajia kitengo husika ndani ya Bunge kitaweza kusukuma Serikali iweze kutilia maanani matakwa ya hawa wazee wa mtaa. Nashukuru.

The Member for Githunguri.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this great Motion by Hon. George Murugara. Village elders The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

play a very big role in our villages. They have been in the administration structures of several regimes, but the only time we see them being recognised is during campaigns. Actually, it is very shameful because these village elders are the people who help us, including the Government, to maintain law and order in our villages. Therefore, the Government should provide them with uniforms, offices and even a token – administration allowances. They work day and night as judges, lawyers and even counsellors trying to ensure harmony in the society. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support this Motion.

The Member for Samburu East, Hon. Jackson Lekumontare.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. These elders are very important people in our villages. We even use their services when we have conflicts of boundaries and in areas where we have so many problems of insecurity. It is very unfair for the Government not to remunerate these elders. If you look at county governments, they have gone up to the village level and the elders engaged are being given some allowances, but the national Government, which is a larger government than the other ones, does not consider these elders. So, it is very important for us as a House to at least make sure that these elders are remunerated. If you look at the Kenya Police Reservists (KPR) in the National Police Service (NPS), the Government gives them some small token for the work they do. The same criteria can be used to remunerate these elders. Even if the SRC refuses, we have other criteria that we can use. When it comes to education of these elders… Even the KPR are not educated. The Government should use the same criteria because the Motion says we identify the criterion that can be used. Thank you very much. I support.

Hon. Bunyasi, Member for Nambale.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to contribute and support this Motion. It is long overdue. The comments relating to the instruments we should use are very valid. Probably an amendment of the law would compel the Government better than this. I think that is a worthy thing. The entire machinery of the Government of this country stands on the heads of these village elders. Somehow in pre-independence days there was an agreed remuneration system that ensured that those who had disputes to be resolved contributed certain items of value and later on cash. It was not an underhand illegal process. It was a system that was agreed upon. If it was goat, prior to the initiation of the dispute resolution process, it had to be given.

So, they had a way of getting little material income, but days have changed. It is time we considered explicit remuneration for village elders. I have 278 village elders in my constituency. All of them are in the uniform I purchased for them, for which they truly appreciate. I was not even sure whether the process was legal but since I was not asking for anything from them in return, I just got them recognition. Each ward chose their uniform. That was a gesture. I wished there was something relating to the regular monthly income for them. I hope they will be considered. We should encourage Mr. Murugara, since he has initiated this, to own it. We can then progress it into a Bill and pass it in support of this wonderful group of people. With those remarks, I beg to move.

Hon. Kamuren, Member for Baringo South. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Asante Mheshimiwa, Naibu Spika wa Muda. Nimesimama kuunga mkono Hoja hii ya kuwalipa mishahara viongozi wa mitaa na vijiji. Ni vyema Serikali iwashughulikie kwa sababu wanafanya kazi nzuri. Wakati mwingi wao ndio wanaoishi na wananchi. Wanasaidia Serikali sana. Kwa hivyo, ni vyema wapewe mishahara na sare rasmi ili watambulike. Inafaa pia wapewe vitambulisho na simu za rununu ili wakiwa na shida wapige simu na kusaidiana na viongozi wengine. Pia, inafaa wapewe fimbo za mamlaka. Kwenye utawala nchini Kenya kuna fimbo ya mamlaka. Hiyo itawafanya waonekane viongozi.

Vile vile, inafaa maslahi yao yaangaliwe. Wanapokuwa wagonjwa, inafaa Serikali iwatibu kupitia NHIF. Wanapopata shida, inafaa wao pia wasaidiwe. Kwa hivyo, ni vyema Serikali iangalie mambo hayo ndiyo nao wapate kusaidia jamii zao na wapate mishahara kama watu wengine kwa saabau wanafanya kazi nzuri. Ukiangalia kwa makini, wao ndio wanastahili wawe na pesa ili wasaidie jamii zao.

Tunapotenga pesa za kuwasaidia watoto wa shule, wao pia huhangaika sana na hao watoto. Imefika wakati wao pia wasaidike na wakae kama viongozi. Kwa sababu hiyo ndiyo sura ya Serikali. Kwa hivyo, naiunga Hoja hii mkono ndiyo wao pia wapewe mshahara.

Asante sana.

Let us have the Member for Turbo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this very important Motion. At the outset, I thank Hon. Murugara for bringing this important Motion to the House. Village elders in the Provincial Administration hierarchy are the junior-most yet they do important work. They are very important. They are the only people who come in touch with citizens at the grassroots level. They are the people we use as machinery for networking the villages. They understand what happens in every part of their villages. They are the people who handle security issues. They are the people who coordinate development in our villages. They resolve disputes and have direct linkages to different stakeholders. Therefore, they are very important people. That is why they should be remunerated – so that they can be motivated and do more to assist the Government in ensuring that public policies are implemented in their villages.

These are critical in terms of policy implementation. Recently, when the Government was asking for 100 per cent transition from primary to secondary schools, they played a very important role.

Therefore, I support this Motion because even as we walk around in our constituencies, they support us in vetting deserving students for bursary allocation. Also, they are the people upon who the Government depends to get very crucial information. They are the ones who know when we have wizards or anything that is bad in the villages. Also, when there is famine, the village elder is the first person who informs us. So, I support this Motion so that our village elders can be remunerated to enable them play a vital role in the development of this nation. Thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Next on my request list is Hon. Sankok. He is not in the House. Let us have Hon. Dennitah Ghati.

Mheshimiwa Naibu Spika wa Muda, nashukuru sana kwa nafasi hii ili niunge mkono Hoja hii iliyoletwa hapa na Mhe. George Murugara. Hii ni Hoja ambayo imenifurahisha sana. Kule vijijini tunakotoka, watu wanaohakikisha kwamba amani inadumishwa, na kuhakikisha kwamba jamaa wetu wanaishi katika hali ya heshima, ni wazee wa Nyumba Kumi au liguruu . Tunaunga mkono Hoja hii ili Serikali kuu iwajumuishe kwenya orodha ya wafanyikazi wa umma wanaolipwa mishahara. Niruhusu niseme kwamba hawa watu wetu ni lazima walipwe mishahara kila mwisho wa mwezi. Hii ni kwa sababu kazi ambazo wanafanya pale chini ni kazi ambazo ni za kudhalilishwa tu. Hawa wazee walipwe kila mwezi na tunapoongea juu ya hawa village elders, lazima tujue ya kwamba hawa viongozi wetu ambao ni wazee wa Nyumba Kumi wao pia ni wamama wa Nyumba Kumi. Unapoona vile tunaongea tunasema tu juu ya wazee wa Nyuma Kumi na hii ni jinsia moja. Tukiendelea kujadiliana, tuhakikishe kwamba hata wamama pale nyumbani wanahusishwa kama viongozi wa Nyumba Kumi ili tuwe na gender balance kwa sababu hii ni kazi muhimu.

Leo nimefurahi kwa sababu tunapatia kipao mbele watu ambao kwa muda mrefu hawajashughulikiwa Huwa hatupati nafasi ya kuongea kuhusu watu walio huko chini. Katika kaunti zetu gavana huwa na structure yake ya ward administrator na sub-county administrator lakini wale wako huko chini huwa hawashughulikiwe na kaunti. Kwa hivyo, Hoja hii ni muhimu kwa sababu itahakikisha kwamba Serikali kuu itaweza kuwapatia village elders, wazee na wamama…

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Hon. Dennitah Ghati, your time is over. Twenty nine Members have requested to speak to this. I just want to remind those who have just come in that we are debating the Motion on policy for recruitment and remuneration of village elders brought to the House by Hon. George Murugara, MP. The Member for Runyenjes, Member for Tharaka, Member for Baringo North and Member for Kilifi North have left their cards inserted. Let us have Member for Baringo South. Order Members! The system is hanging. You do not need to raise your hands. We have House procedures; the Speaker will catch your eye. I know there are Members who want to speak to the other Motion. There is a list of those who have spoken and according to our rules and procedures, you do not speak twice to a Motion. If you want to speak to this Motion press the intervention button. Let us have Hon. Dr. Nyikal.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. The key to governance is involvement and participation of people who are governed. In any situation, it is often impossible to involve everyone particularly from the communities we come from. Therefore, we must use people’s representatives who are either elected like us or those who are naturally recognised by the communities as their leaders. This is where the village elders fall. Everywhere, village elders are recognised by communities as their leaders. They are invaluable in solving community problems. Often, they are the first port of call, whether it is marriage, property or boundary disputes. Often, they do a tremendous job and many times, it may end there or is forwarded to the assistant chief or chief. On issues security they are invaluable because they understand the community and the people involved and sometimes, they can prevent occurrences of security nature. Often, they are people who help us to propagate Government policies and even implementation, like when The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

registration is required. They support chiefs and assistant chiefs and often, they abandon their own income generating activities and many times risk their lives especially at night. Therefore, the need for their remuneration is unquestionable. We must put in place structures for their recognition and payment. Legal structures will be needed. We can either use the Chiefs Act or the National Government Coordination Act. The Mover has done a good job so that we can put structures in place for their payment. Actually, this should be regular stipends and uniforms as indicated. We must recognise devolution structures in place so that we harmonise and avoid any conflict between the two structures of Government. With that, I support this Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Thank you, Member for Seme. Next on my request list is Member for Bomet Central, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to add my voice. I want to support this Motion and commend, Hon. Murugara for bringing it. I believe it is very important because often, as we move around the village elders remind us to put this into consideration. Village elders are important people because they are listened to and respected by the community members. Therefore, they play a key role in influencing even the various opinions of the people on the ground, sensitising them on the various Government projects, programmes and services, including the stipend for the old, orphans and disabled. These are some of the key issues which they have to sensitise the public on. They also participate in conflict resolution of families. Of late, we have seen many families in distress and conflict making decisions to kill some family members. I believe with intervention from village elders, some of these issues can be reduced. In fact, I believe 80 per cent of domestic issues are sorted out by village elders without referring them to the assistant chiefs and chiefs. The same village elders are important in resolving land disputes and this is sorted out without referring them to courts. So, they are very critical at this level. I support that they need to be given monthly and not annual allowances or stipend. This should be monthly and so their money needs to be taken care of. Considering that they use most of their time seated in meetings which take half or a whole day, they should be compensated. This is stressful and tiring. In fact, I wish to propose that since this is a law-making institution we should not urge the Government. We need to take action by ensuring that when we are dealing with Budget proposals which will be brought to this House, we include something for the village elders…

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Hon. Members, you must plan your time well. Next is the Member for Kitutu Masaba, Hon. Mose John.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for granting me an opportunity to also add my voice to this very deserving Motion. First of all, I want to congratulate the Mover, my colleague, Hon. George Gitonga Murugara who also happens to have been my classmate at the university. We have to be very honest and candid to ourselves because as a nation we have been very unfair to village elders. In Kisii village elders are notoriously referred to as ‘abatureti’ because of the role they play is extremely critical. If you want any information regarding any member of the village where you come from, the first port of call where you get this information are the village elders. They play such a critical role to the extent that without them, the assistant chiefs, chiefs and even District Officers will find it very difficult to operate. When it comes to disputes in the village, they are extremely important. At 6.00 a.m. or even earlier, people are at their The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

doorsteps to register their complaints and concerns when they are aggrieved. They work throughout the day and late into the night but at the end of the day, we do not take into account how they survive as members of our society. Even the manner they dress, if you look at them, is extremely undeserving. They also help us in identifying widows and orphans. They deal with land disputes and reconciliation among warring factions. So, they play such a pivotal role that they are remunerated. I urge that we remunerate them. With that, I support.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Next is the Member for South Mugirango, Hon. Onyiego Osoro.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I equally rise to support this Motion in regard to remuneration of our good elders. I echo what my colleagues have said but equally add that these village elders act as land surveyors in our villages, arbitrators, mediators and dowry negotiators. These are people who play a major role in the society. When there arise disputes that require elderly intervention, our village elders are called upon. They are judges and everything. The Government also uses them as National Intelligence Service (NIS) officials for intelligence collection for the chiefs, sub-chiefs and generally the Government of Kenya. Unfortunately, these people are never considered when it comes to matters of motivating them. We might not really say that they need to be paid but I think we need to come up with something that gives them some form of motivation to proceed with their role. Much of it is actually done out of a good heart. However, it is about time we started motivating them. If we can give motivation to…

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Order! Order! Hon. Member, I can see you are very beautiful today but you do not do that. Can you go back, bow and come back to the Member for Kilome? This is a House of rules. I know you want to consult with the Member for Kilome. Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I think you spent my two minutes. I was saying that they really play a major role in reconciliation and as such, we need to support the Motion to remunerate them or give them motivation. With that, I rise to support the Motion. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Next is the Member for Kilome.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me take the opportunity to appreciate the contributions by Members about this very important Motion. This Motion is long overdue. Everybody in this country appreciates the work of these good village elders. Most Members of Parliament here know. When we vet those who are to be beneficiaries of bursaries, we all rely on these village elders. When the Government wanted to initiate and push for 100 per cent transition to Form One, these are the only people who knew the students very well within the villages. So, they are very important to us. When it comes to issues of insecurity, they play a very important role. Without wasting a lot of time, it is high time we considered remuneration of these village elders. On top of that, they should be in uniform like the chiefs and assistant chiefs and, if possible, they should have badges for their recognition. I urge Members of this House to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

consider them in the Budget of 2019/2020 Financial Year so that next year they start earning salaries like any other employee in this society. When the Budget is brought here, we should consider that as very important and a noble case to be implemented. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Next is the Member for Trans Nzoia County.

Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi hii nichangie mjadala huu kuhusu wazee wa mtaa. Kwanza, ninachukua nafasi hii kumshukuru Mhe. Murugara kwa kuleta Hoja hii katika Bunge hili. Miaka miwili iliyopita, tulikuwa na Hoja kama hii katika Bunge hili na hakuna mabadiliko yoyote yalitendeka. Ninafikiria leo tunapojadili Hoja hii, tutahakikisha kwamba imetekelezwa vilivyo kwa sababu vile wenzangu wamechangia katika Bunge hili, ni kweli wanafanya kazi nyingi sana. Katika utoaji wa vitambulisho, wazee hawa wanachukua nafasi ya maana sana kuwatambua wenyeji katika vijini wanavyotoka. Pia wana majukumu makali sana hasa ikija katika mambo ya ugomvi wa nyumbani kina mama wanapogombana au watoto waliowashinda wazazi wao. Hawa huenda kwa wazee wa mtaa kuhakikisha kwamba wanaleta maridhiano miongoni mwao. Kama Mhe. Dennitah Ghati alivyosema, miongoni mwao mna kina mama wanaodhulumiwa kwa sababu wanapopewa kesi za kufanya katika vijiji hivyo, wengine wananajisiwa. Pia wanatakikana wapewe usalama kwa sababu wanatembea bila vifaa vyovyote vya kuwakinga kama machifu wanavyopewa. Vile wenzangu wamesema ni kweli. Tunapotengeneza Bajeti, angalau tutenge pesa za kuhakikisha kwamba hawa pia wanapata pesa za kukidhi jamii zao. Katika baadhi ya kaunti, kuna magavana waliojitolea kuhakikisha kwamba wazee wa mtaa wanaishi vizuri lakini wengine hawajui maana ya wazee hawa wa mtaa kwa sababu walipata kura kwa njia ambayo haieleweki. Ninaunga mkono Hoja hii angalau wazee wa mtaa wapewe senti kidogo. Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Wamepata jina lingine: wazee wa mtaa. Ndiyo maana wanaitwa Nyumba Kumi . Very well, Member for Trans Nzoia. Let us have the Member for Moiben.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also voice my support for village elders. First, I thank Hon. George Murugara for bringing up this noble idea. From the outset, I also support the Motion because it is noble and something that supports our elders.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): You still have time. Can you give him the next microphone? Hon. Tiren, just use the next microphone.

Village elders are very important. They do a serious job that is very important for our people. They settle a lot of issues, conflicts and cases on the ground. They also help people to solve a lot of problems. A very high percentage of the work they do is to help chiefs and assistant chiefs. By the time information gets to the chiefs, they have solved a lot of problems. They are very important. They have really helped the administration and the Government. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

This is long overdue because we should not talk about it all the time. I am in support of my colleagues who have said that we should be thinking of how to make sure it is in the Budget or we budget for it so that we sort out this problem once and for all. There are so many issues. In harsh areas, you will find that elders report on deaths and the issues of people who are suffering or have passed on. They share that information with chiefs or assistant chiefs. They are very important people. We should not even be discussing this issue. It should have already been passed as law so that we help them. It is very important for the village elders to get this remuneration so that they do their things. They are also Kenyans and have families. They have school-going children yet we are not supporting them in any way. We are using them. They are the network that the national Government uses to know what is happening on the ground. They get all the information. They are the only people who work for 24 hours without any pay. When there are problems at night, they are called to try and solve them. I do not want to say more than that. Let us move and not wait for another time. This issue should not come back here. Let us support the Motion so that we put it in the Budget to help the elders. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Let us have the Member for Gichugu. This is a free sitting House. You can sit on any side of the Chamber. You do not need to say that I need to consider Members on this side or that side. Neither do we raise hands.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion by Hon. George Murugara. The Motion is informed by the fact that the initial Motion which was passed in the last Parliament urged the Government to look into ways of remunerating or giving honorarium to village elders. Due to the fact that it involves money, a Government policy is very crucial. That is why formulation of a Government policy which would later translate into an Act of Parliament and go through the necessary process of money Bills would be very necessary. Chiefs’ usefulness within our community cannot be overstated. On matters security, they play a very important role. They also assist in solving minor family disputes and disputes involving land. They also mobilise for barazas . They sometimes play bigger roles than even the chiefs and sub-chiefs. Sometimes I usually pity them because they work at odd hours. They do not even have money for buying credit and for transport. I have also been a beneficiary of the elders because they have assisted me in identifying the needy children at the local level who deserve bursaries. These are very important citizens within our communities. It is high time this Parliament supported them through formulation of a policy that will lead to them earning a living. It would be very crucial. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Let us have the Member for Mwea. Hon. Members, avoid repetition so that other Members can speak to this.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. From the outset, this Motion should have come as a Bill so that this issue can be anchored into law in this country. I do not want to repeat what my colleagues have already highlighted but village elders, who include the village in-charges, Nyumba Kumi and peace committees, play a critical role in the economic and social development of our country. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

We enjoy life in this country without knowing that there are people out there who contribute to the good life that we lead. I want to highlight some examples. In Ethiopia for example, village elders are taken very seriously. Because of that, they have fewer crimes, terrorism and other forms of law breakages in Ethiopia because of the way village elders are organised. When talking about remunerating this particular class, people jump into figures. I want to jump into that. In this country, there are approximately 6,000 sub-locations. If we get about five village elders per sub-location, you are looking at about 30,000 village elders. If we just gave them about Kshs10,000 per month, that will interpret into Kshs300 million. In a year, we will be talking about Kshs3 billion or Kshs3.5 billion. Our wage bill in 2018 was in excess of Kshs650 billion. The Kshs3 billion that we will be looking for, for this very important group will only amount to 0.46 per cent. Even when we are in Nairobi, we are sure that our villages, people and borders are secure because of these people who spend their 24 hours working for us. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well. Those were good calculations and statistics. Let us have the Member for Teso South, Hon. Omuse Geoffrey.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this very important Motion. I thank the Hon. Member who brought the Motion to the House. I will be very brief. Village elders hold the grassroots for this country. I come from a border constituency in Busia County. We neighbour Uganda. In Uganda, village elders are armed. They have rifles and assist in security matters. I wish we could borrow that practice and introduce it here in Kenya. It will help us a lot, especially in fighting terrorism. We need to remunerate them because they also have families. They lead normal lives. They give most of their time to discharge duties for this country. I wish to ask this honourable House to move with speed and remunerate the village elders. As it has been mentioned before, if it is possible, the Mover should come up with a Bill so that it is made into law. Where possible, it should be factored in the next Budget in the Financial Year 2019/2020 so that village elders can be paid.

Finally, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the village elders in Teso South have made my work easier as a Member of Parliament. I feel offended sometimes because I have nothing to pay them. I wish that the Government could realise that it is upon it to ensure that they are paid so that Members and any other people who are supported by this group of senior citizens do not have a hard time dealing with them at the grassroots level.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Hon. Brighton Yegon.

Konoin, JP): Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Village elders play a very vital role in the society. They sort out nuclear and extended families conflicts. They assist in identifying the vulnerable in their villages in my constituency. They also help me in allocation of bursaries. They also assist in identification of projects. When we are conducting public participation for allocation of resources at the lower level, they play a very important role. We cannot do away with the role of the village elders.

Let us also look at the issue of motivation. Village elders deserve motivation and appreciation. They also need honoraria, compensation and remuneration. Therefore, we should provide them with offices where they work from and uniforms. The Government should also provide NHIF cover for them and their families. These people are very important. We should The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

look at the Chiefs’ Act and draft a Bill so that we can move the agenda of the village elders forward. I asked a Question the other week concerning the same on compensation. I am waiting for the reply from the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. It is very important that we look at the welfare of these village elders and the people who are in charge of

Initiative.

Thank you so much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): You asked a Question on the welfare of the village elders. Hon. Brighton, I am sure when the Committee will be ready, your Question will be answered as per the procedures of the House. Member for Emuhaya, Milemba Omboko.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity to make my contribution. First, I thank Hon. Murugara for a very good Motion. I will be quick to indicate that village elders are the remnants of the African traditional structure of government that remained with us after colonialism, alongside the chiefs. Village elders were the original colonial structure of administration. They have special days set aside for them to brief chiefs and assistant chiefs. If they are accommodated into the pay structure of the Government, they will form the sixth layer of the Provincial Administration in this country. This is key because it is operating at the lowest level of that particular structure.

Like it has already been indicated, there are about 30,000 village elders who work in about 6,500 sub-locations. They render voluntary work to this country. Unfortunately, when we had the most recent survey from the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC), they ranked them very high alongside other groups of people, moreso, the teams that register persons in the country. Because they do voluntary work, they look for a way of paying themselves through small fines which are called by different names in different communities. To mainstream this structure and make them operate properly without affecting the entire community by imposing the small fines, let them be mainstreamed in a form of remuneration. This will be very good for efficient working.

Without much ado, I can see that time is not on my side, I want to support this Motion and urge that these village elders to be paid. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well. Member for Sirisia.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to add my voice to this important Motion. We had these people since Independence and during colonialism. All the Governments that have been in power did not realise their importance and work.

This is the third time for me to talk on this same Motion in this House. It was brought in the 10th Parliament by Hon. Eugene Wamalwa. It was about remuneration of village elders. It was also brought in the 11th Parliament. We are talking about it again because no action has been taken by the House. We talk and then the Motion is kept in the archives. It is high time we implemented it because we all come from villages. It is true that they work for 24 hours. They have families like you and me. They need to be given an allowance so that they can pay fees for their families.

The village elders do a lot of work, for example, in registration of births. When families have disputes, they are the first on the line in the Government before the assistant chief. They are the ones who know if there is a bad person or a thief in the village. If somebody dies, these are the people who give reports to the Government. I believe that failure to implement this Motion is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

an oversight by the Jubilee Government. They came up with a stipend for senior citizens. Our parents and relatives are enjoying. I am sure even these village elders this time, if…

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Your time is over, Hon. Member. Hon. Members, for guidance and relevance, on 28th July 2016 this House resolved on a Motion to consider giving monthly honorarium to village elders. In Hon. George Murugara’s Motion, this House further urges the national Government to formulate and implement a policy on the criteria for recruitment and remuneration of village elders. For relevance in debating the Motion, please let us be guided since we had the same Motion but this one urges the Government further. Member for Kaiti. Is he in the House?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Motion about our village elders. First, I thank the Member who came up with the Motion because it is long overdue. Village elders do a lot of work and give services to us and community in development. Our county commissioners and deputy county commissioners, chiefs and sub-chiefs use village elders to get information about mwananchi . In my Kaiti Constituency, three months ago, a village elder was beaten brutally by people as he tried to fight against illicit brew. Up to date, the village elder has not been compensated. Village elders do a lot of work in mobilising people to attend chiefs’ and assistant chiefs’

. During bursary disbursement, I use village elders because they can reach everybody in the constituency and have the required information. After they work, we have to understand that village elders have families and need to eat. They also have children in schools, universities and colleges. They need to be paid so that they can meet their bills. I urge the Government to consider paying them as it is long overdue and to be motivated for the work they do. These people work 24 hours. In case of any dispute, they are woken up at night because they live in villages. I urge my colleagues to support the Motion so that we come up with regulations on how they can be paid. Thank you, I support.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Member for Alego- Usonga, Hon. Atandi Onunga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to support the Motion. There is no doubt that village elders are critical in the smooth performance of government programmes in villages. Why is it that these people serve Government but do not get any remuneration? As an example, when we rolled the programme of Government remitting money to the old or aged, village elders were critical. The money is given every month, but the people in charge of organising the old to receive the resources do not get anything. We should all agree that it is important for people performing government functions to be remunerated. There should be no doubt about that. We need to have this matter put in law. I propose that the relevant Committee legislates on the matter so that it is part and parcel of our statutes and these people receive support. Security concerns are everywhere. Let me give an example of a case where a village elder in my constituency helped in arresting people who were getting girls out of school and impregnating them. We have a situation where we have to go down to the villages to talk to village elders to give us that kind of support. So, there is much they do on the ground. We have The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

no option but to ensure we get them some stipend. We can model it in terms of monthly stipend if there is a problem with our wage Bill. That is an area that we can use so that they are supported. Thank you.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): The Member representing the people of Siaya, the County Woman Representative.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. I support this Motion because of the importance of village elders. Village elders are very critical in running of village affairs. These are people who mobilise communities during health crisis like Kick Polio Out campaigns. They are the ones who mobilise people and educate them on health matters. These are people who identify orphans. They also identify thugs in the village. People use them for various activities. Even researchers – I have used them myself – use them for research purposes. When I want to meet women of a particular group to answer certain questions for research, these are the people I go to first. So, they are very important. Nobody can work for one year, two years or three years for free. Nobody does voluntary work like that. They have to be paid. These people have families and children going to school. These people also fall sick. They need to go to school. These people need financial support. To expect them to work for free would be a big dream.

It is important that they are recognised as people playing a very important role in the society. That recognition is very important. They also need some identification. Who are the village elders? How do we recognise them? We need to identify them to work with them. Normally, they are people who are just simply doing voluntary work and are so committed to their work. They are also elderly in a way. They are not young people. So, their health is critical. We need to pay them properly. We need to look after them. They need to be identified and cared for just like any other person. I recognise them and believe most of us here support them and we will do everything possible to get paid.

Thank you for the opportunity

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Member for Karachuonyo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. We should feel guilty that we are talking about village elders a little too late. They have been exploited for a long time. Now that their case has come to this House, we should make sure that they are paid and paid well enough at least for their jobs.

If you go to land issues, the Government depends on village elders for advice and their advice normally is very important for whoever is charging the case. On educational matters like my colleagues have said, we use them quite a lot. The Government uses them and we cannot ignore their performance. As we speak, the Government has a food policy. This is one of the Big Four Agenda of the Government. The people who can get villagers to go to their shambas and till their land for food production are the village elders. They are very useful in this situation.

We expose them to a lot of dangers. Look at the illicit brews. Those who brew these drinks do not take it lightly if they are arrested. They normally think it is the village elders who inform the authorities to arrest them. When they are arrested, they take offence and sometimes they become dangerous to the village elders. Chiefs and assistant chiefs also use them. The Government uses them. They are actually Government employees but nobody recognises them for their contribution to the Government. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well. There is this Member who is known differently, but as Speakers we know you by the name by which you were sworn: the Member for Mwingi Central. I know your people call you kisithe but here we call you Hon. Mulyungi Mutemi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion by my friend Murungaru, Member of Parliament for Tharaka.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): The author is not Murungaru. It is good to be on record. He is George Murugara.

Hon. George Murugara, yes. I am sorry. Everybody in the village knows the village elders. These are the people who know everybody in the village, including ourselves. They know those who are law abiding, those who are criminals and those who are drunkards. They oversee peace and security in the villages. They are also judges. They mobilise and get first-hand information, like in Turkana where people are dying of hunger. These are the people who give us information. To do all this, they must be facilitated, even with mobility; they must command respect. Unfortunately, they earn nothing. There are no regulations; there are no policies to guard them. I have received delegations in my home of these people complaining that they have nothing. They look poor. They have no clothes. They are dirty. If you look like that, you do not command respect; you cannot be respected as a judge. In some instances, even families are broken. Wives have left their husbands because they do not understand how somebody can work for nothing. The Government has been using them like slaves. We know slavery is illegal. Therefore, these people must be compensated. There must be a policy on how they are going to be compensated. They need to be mobile; they need to move from point A to point B. They need to feed. They need to clothe. They also need uniforms. The Government must, therefore, come up with policies to guide this process and facilitate payment of honorarium or allowances or salaries to them. I hope this House will not be a talk shop for this Motion. Therefore, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Hon. Members, the following Members are willing to speak to the Motion: the Member for Subukia, the Member for Mukurweini, the Member for Funyula, the Member for Ikolomani, the Member for Lari, the Member for Kajiado, the Member for Wundanyi, the Member for Mwea, the Member for Limuru, the Member for Kitutu Chache and the Member for Bumula. Because this is a House of rules and procedures, and I am aware village elders are in every constituency, including my own constituency of Kibwezi East, and every Motion has a limitation of time, I call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Unfortunately, I can donate only two minutes to the Member for Mukurweini and Dr. Oundo. I will then have three minutes for myself.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Member for Mukurweini, two minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I thank my colleague Hon. George Murugara for donating a minute to me. I rise to support the Motion about village elders who are also known as Nyumba Kumi. These are the people who hold the common fabric of the public together. They are the glue that holds the community together. These are the medical doctors of the village. These are the people who collect The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

intelligence in the village. For working for 24 hours, all that they get from the Government is nothing. We are asking: Who is this person who is prepared to work for the Government with all his might but does not get anything in return? They must be compensated for the good work they are doing on the ground. I support.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well, the beneficiary of the other two minutes. We are still looking at our Standing Orders on the issue of donating time.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to thank my good friend Sir George, as we call him for this generosity.

I support the Motion because the village elders - we call them liguruu in my constituency – are the first port of call for disputes especially between man and wife and family and children. They are the first call on the issue of land and boundary disputes. They help us in gathering relevant information on the ground. They have greatly assisted me in identifying needy students for bursary awards and needy members of families for the Cash Transfer Programme. For this, I sincerely ask the Government to look at them with a bit of fairness and award them some honoraria to support them for the good work they do.

I support the Motion. Thank you

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well, your four minutes Hon. Member.

(Tharaka, DP); Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, In reply I thank the Hon. Members of the House for this overwhelming support . This is one of the institutions that need to be looked into carefully both by this House and the Government.

I confirm that I will be making a follow up with the Committee on Implementation if this House votes in favour of the Motion to ensure that this is implemented. If there is no implementation for whatever reason we will be bringing a Bill in this House to ensure that village elders are anchored in the law.

I wish to reply to Hon. Nkatha Member for Tharaka Nithi, we will be looking at what best title to give to them including “Area Managers” instead of “Village Elders.” I also wish to confirm that if it is assured in the Budget that chiefs will be getting imprests, we will be insisting that they use those imprests partly to remunerate village administrators. There are other issues that we need to look into including insurances and modes of transport. I assure the Hon. Member for Imenti North that there are no boundary disputes between his constituency and Tharaka. If there is any the village elders will step in quickly and resolve it in the best amicable manner that is available. I wish to move under Standing Order No. 53(3) that in view of the circumstances of the House, the Question relating to this Motion be deferred to another time as will be appointed by the House Business Committee.

Thank you.

(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Very well, the Speaker is well guided. Hon. Members, from where I sit, this Motion has not been negated by any Member. Due to the provisions of Standing Order No. 53(3) as quoted by the Mover while replying, I am not in position to put the Question as the House is not properly constituted.

I therefore direct and order that the Question to the Motion be put in the next sitting as it will be slotted in our Order Paper.

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(Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu): Hon. Members, the time being 1.00 p.m. this House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m. It is so ordered.

The House rose at 1.00 p.m.

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