Hon. Members, we have quorum to transact business. Clerk-at- the Table.
Leader of the Majority Party.
Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker.
I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: 1. Legal Notice No.191 of 2022 relating to the Energy and Petroleum Pricing Revocation Regulations, 2022 and the explanatory memorandum. 2. Legal Notice No.192 of 2022 relating to the Petroleum Pricing Regulations, 2022 and the explanatory memorandum. 3. Legal Notice No.174 of 2022 relating to the Merchant Shipping Kenyan Seafarers Identity Documents Regulation, 2022 and the explanatory memorandum.
I thank you, Hon. Speaker.
Member for Dagoretti South.
Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. This is a Motion on the empowerment of artisans by the Government, specifically the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF). Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that there are many talents among the youth of this country; noting that these talents have been severally displayed through various interventions and innovations by artisans in platforms such as the Annual Youth Innovation Week and profiled on social media and traditional media; concerned that most of these innovations and art works do not go beyond making sensational stories in their localities, local dailies and social media mentions; noting that most of these innovations and artworks are crucial in ideas promotion, intellectual development and at creating employment and addressing the problems that affect us as Kenyans on a daily basis; concerned that there is inadequate support and administrative measures to support the artisans; cognisant of the fact that the Kenya Vision 2030 seeks to make our country an industrialised middle-income The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
economy in the next nine years; aware of the immense potential for wealth creation and job opportunities through our own local production generated if well developed and commercialised; recognising that our imports are well in excess of Ksh2 billion and that most of these imports are not relevant to the Kenyan market; noting that the home-grown technology would be region sensitive and appropriate for the environment, social economic dynamics and suitable for our utility; further concerned that most of these artisans lack appropriate technology, skills, capital and tools; I urge that this House resolves that the national Government, through the relevant Ministry, formulates a policy, ring-fencing two per cent of the monies that are allocated under the National Government Constituencies Development Fund and Uwezo Fund for the purposes of equipping artisans with the necessary skills, technology and tools.
Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker.
Thank you, Hon. Kiarie. Member for Dagoretti North.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that Kenya’s economy is largely driven by the informal sector spearheaded by entrepreneurs presenting themselves in form of Small and Micro-Enterprises (SMEs); concerned that the informal sector popularly known as the Jua Kali has different segments and categories spread out in value chains ranging from agriculture, trade, manufacturing, apparels, Information Technology, transport, the creative economy, education among others; noting that this sector has a potential to create employment opportunities to over 80 per cent of Kenya’s working population; recognising, that these Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) have the capacity to leapfrog our nation to a middle-income economy as witnessed in other economies around the world; deeply concerned that previous support by the government in this sector has merely been a kneejerk reaction in form of skewed funding and tokenism; cognisant that there exists no unified National Policy or legislation in support of the sector and SMEs across the entire value chain; NOW THEREFORE, this House resolves that the National Government develops a unified National Policy on Micro, Small and Medium enterprises detailing recognition, funding, mentoring, expansion, restructuring and marketing of SMEs products. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.
r: Next Order!
Member for Kitui, Hon. Irene Kasalu.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I request a statement regarding insecurity and the invasion by camel herders in Kitui County. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Leader of the Majority Party regarding the insecurity and invasion of camel herders in Kitui County. There has been a continuous influx of armed camel herders from Tana River, Wajir, Garissa, and Mandera counties in Kitui County. This is of great concern due to the resultant persistent raids by immigrant herders, which have led to injuries, loss of property, and encroachments in wildlife-protected areas. This has, in turn, led to a loss of tourism revenue. In recent weeks, banditry along the Ngomeni, Nguni, Malalani, and Mutha wards in Kitui County has recurred with recent killings of residents and displacement of people. The said incursion is characterised by thousands of camels in search of pastures with no regard for the property. Further, as the drought situation worsens, there is fear of a possible prolonged food shortage due to massive destruction of crops. Committees are yet to be formed and there is no forum in the House to interrogate the matter as a House. It is against this background that I seek a Statement from the Leader of the Majority Party on the following: 1. Could the Leader of the Majority Party obtain a response from the Executive on the immediate steps that the Government has put in place to enhance security in the region and in particular stop the influx of armed camel herders from Tana River, Garissa, Wajir and Mandera Counties in Kitui County? 2. Could the Leader of the Majority Party also explain actions taken by the Government to flush out bandits, raiders and invaders across Kitui County, including those in the game parks? 3. Could the Leader of the Majority Party explain whether investigations have been undertaken to arrest and bring the perpetrators to book for the killings, loss of properties and destruction of crops in Kitui County? 4. What plans has the Ministry put in place to ensure that the affected residents will be compensated for the loss of life, injuries and loss of properties, including crops? Thank you, Hon Speaker.
Thank you, Hon. Members. Let us proceed to the Statement by the Leader of the Majority Party pursuant to Standing Order 44(2)(a). The Leader of the Majority Party.
As and when the committees are constituted, the Clerk will pass on the Statement to the committee mentioned.
Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44(2) (a), I rise to give the following Statement on behalf of the House Business Committee which met on Tuesday, 25th October 2022 and today Thursday, 27th October 2022 to prioritise the business for consideration. Hon. Speaker, as you are aware, the House reconvened on Tuesday 25th October 2022 from the short recess where Members had an opportunity to unite with their families and constituents. I, therefore, wish to welcome all Members back and wish them a busy legislative part of this Session. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Members will recall that yesterday, Wednesday, 26th October 2022, the House considered the Report on the vetting of nominees for the approval of Cabinet Secretaries, the Secretary to the Cabinet, and the Attorney-General to their various positions. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Members for their dedication, support and active participation in the vetting process. Indeed, their sacrifice and active participation in exercising this crucial role is a great representation of this House. I would also like to commend the Committee on Appointments with you as the Chairman and our support staff for the good work despite the strict deadlines. Similarly, I congratulate the persons appointed to serve in the various capacities and wish them well as they take on the new roles as Cabinet Secretaries. They were sworn in this morning. Hon. Speaker, with regard to the provisions for next week, Members are aware that we are yet to establish committees. However, the Committee on Selection will this afternoon present its report on the placement of Members to various Committees. In this regard, the House will debate the legislative proposal to amend the Constitution sponsored by the following Members: Hon. Stephen Mule and Hon. Gichumu Githinji. Hon. Members, the Speaker will also consider individual Members’ Motions among them the establishment of the Kiswahili Council by the Member for Kamukunji, Hon. Yusuf Hassan; the Empowerment of Artisans by the National Government by Hon. John Kiarie, which he has just given notice of; and the Recognition and the Remuneration of Village Elders by Hon. Mwengi Mutuse. The House Business Committee will reconvene again on Tuesday, 2nd November 2022, to reschedule the business of the week. I wish to lay this Statement on the Table of the House.
Leader for the Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to move; THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 175, this House approves the appointment of Members to the respective Committees of the House as specified in the following schedule:
Hon. Members, there is a Supplementary Order Paper in circulation and that is what will guide business for the remainder of the afternoon. You may proceed.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I think those who have not received it, there are Serjeant-at-Arms still going around distributing them. I can see there are Members who have volunteered to assist the Serjeant-at-Arms. The Supplementary Order Paper has the schedule that has all the committees; the 20 Departmental Committees and the Select Committees. Let me begin by thanking, in a special way, all the Members of the Selection Committee who took time, the larger part of yesterday to go through this list of committees as submitted by the House leadership from both the Majority and Minority parties. I also thank the Whips, Hon. Osoro, Hon. Junet; Leader of the Minority Party, Hon. Opiyo Wandayi and his Deputy, Hon. Mbui and my own Deputy, Hon. Owen Baya and the Deputy Whips for the work they put in. Last week when we went on recess, those who were in the Committee on Selection and the Committee on Appointments did not have an opportunity to go to their constituencies and spend a little time with their families. The Members who were in the Committee on Appointments were seated here throughout. The leadership of both coalitions met last week on Wednesday evening till very late at night to agree on the framework that the two coalitions would use to share positions or slots in the Departmental Committees as well as in the Select Committees. Let me also thank the Office of the Clerk because they put in a lot of work to guide us in line with our Standing Orders, especially Standing Orders 173 and 174 on how the two coalitions would share the slots that are available in the committees. I do not want to say much in line with what is provided for in the Standing Orders, but it is important to note a few things: one is that those of us who were here in the 11th and 12th Parliaments will recall that many of our committees, both Departmental and Select had a significantly higher number of Members than the committees as constituted today. You will The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
notice that all the Departmental Committees have an average of 15 Members. The Majority Party has eight Members and seven slots are given to the Minority Party. However, Standing Order 174(1) requires that the Committee on Selection, in nominating Members to serve in a Select Committee, shall ensure that the membership of each committee reflects the relative majorities of the seats held by each of the parliamentary parties. We made sure we did that. It also states that not two Members of the House Business Committee will serve in the same Departmental Committee. We also ensured that there is no Member who will contravene this particular provision unless the House resolves otherwise. Hon. Speaker, it is also a requirement in our own Standing Orders, as amended in the last days of the last Parliament, to provide that at least one Independent Member is nominated to serve in the Special Funds Accounts Committee. That was also there in the 12th Parliament, but the new requirement is that, at least, we must ensure that our Independent Members are represented. This time we have 12 Independent Members and they had 10 slots that were reserved for them in line with the Standing Orders. All those Independent Members have been catered for. Both the majority coalition and the minority coalition have been magnanimous enough to ensure that they adhere to the Standing Orders to accommodate the Independent Members in line with Standing Orders. It is also a requirement that those parties that do not constitute parliamentary political parties are taken care of. It is worth noting that many of the non-parliamentary political parties are affiliated with the Kenya Kwanza Coalition because Orange Democratic Movement (ODM), WIPER Democratic Movement and Jubilee are parliamentary political parties. On this side of the divide, we have quite a number of parties that do not constitute parliamentary political parties. Within our coalition, we ensured that we allocated the slots reserved, in line with our Standing Orders, for the non-parliamentary political parties to all the parties in the coalition. Hon. Speaker, another important thing I want to point out to Members is that Principal Secretaries may be nominated. If we pass this Motion today, we expect His Excellency the President to be naming Principal Secretaries in due course. Therefore, these committees will carry out the exercise of vetting them. Hopefully, before His Excellency the President nominates the Principal Secretaries, the Clerk’s office has indicated it will organise a calendar for election of the leadership of these committees. We expect this will start early next week. The issue raised by Hon. Irene Kasalu should be directed to a committee where that kind of business can be transacted. Of course, we expect that in line with the pronouncement by His Excellency the President on the Supplementary Budget, that the National Treasury is in the course of preparing it. We expect to quickly constitute the Budget and Appropriations Committee to consider any Supplementary Budget that may be sent our way. Hon. Speaker, you will also remember in your communication last week or early this week, you talked of the appointment of the Inspector-General (IG) of Police, who needs to be vetted by a Joint Committee between the Senate and this House. We will not vet him if we do not constitute these Committees. Hon. Members, should note that after we elect our chairpersons and vice- chairpersons… The Committee on Selection went through a very rigorous exercise to place Members. I want to persuade Members that they may not get the committees they were looking for. Opportunities will arise following the election of chairpersons and vice-chairpersons; more so, where somebody is elected as a chairperson and had been designated either two or three committees. This is because in line with our Standing Orders, no chairperson of a committee is allowed to be a Member of another committee. Considering we have 20 Departmental Committees, this tells you we have 20 slots that may fall vacant if a chairperson is elected and was in another committee. The same with Select Committees, if one is designated and elected The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
as a chairperson. They are not 24 of them because some are chaired by the Hon. Speaker, for example, the House Business Committee (HBC) and the Committee on Powers and Privileges. Again, this will allow Members to get more slots. This is not from the Majority Party only but even the Minority Party with about eight committees they are designated to chair. Therefore, even on the minority side, those who will be elected as chairpersons of either Public Accounts Committee (PAC), Public Investment Committee (PIC) or the Special Funds Accounts Committee for the Independents will have to relinquish those positions. I take this opportunity to commit as the Chairperson of the Committee on Selection that this time round we shall not make it a committee that only sits at the beginning of the Session to place Members and then sit again in case there is some movement in the course of the Session. As soon as we are done with the election of committees, chairpersons, and vice- chairpersons, we will endeavour to sit again to reallocate the available slots to Members from both sides of the coalitions. Hon. Speaker, I do not want to belabour on these points although it is worthy to note, especially by new Members of Parliament that this is one of the most divisive exercises in any parliament. It is always not possible to please everybody in the House or place everybody in the committee they desire. I will give you an example of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure. From the Majority side we had 79 Members who sought to be fixed in eight slots. The Minority side had 71 Members who also wanted to be slotted in that Committee. The Budget and Appropriations Committee had 99 Members who sought to sit in it yet it can only accommodate 27 Members. Therefore, Hon. Members, I beseech you it is not possible to please everybody. We will please some and disappoint others but at the end of the day, we are all Members of Parliament who have the opportunity to attend all committees of this House. Nothing precludes you as a Member of Parliament from attending any committee of the House. You do not have to be a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to attend meetings there. I truly want to encourage, especially, our first time Members of Parliament. Please, take your time to learn what happens in other committees other than the committee you are designated in. In conclusion, it has been a custom to find people in two or three committees. The moment Members are placed in committees, they end up never showing up in any sitting. I want to assure Members because I have assurance from the Leader of the Minority Party that they will keep track, like those in the Majority Party will do. If you are not active in the committee you have been designated in, please, allow us.... I can hear the Majority Whip saying this is what he will be doing on a daily basis, that is, ensuring he tracks who is active in a particular committee and who is not. So, if you do not have the opportunity or the time to attend a committee, there is no reason to hold that slot and stop someone else who would be more interested to serve in that committee. I am saying this to encourage Members to be active participants. If you are not a member of a committee or you have not been designated to a particular committee, be active in that committee. You may find a Member who has been designated in a committee, but never attends meetings. Whenever you attend a committee, it is always noted in the attendance register that you attended as a friend of the committee. Therefore, the Majority and Minority Whips will see who are the active Members in particular committees and if there is reassignment, we will then reassign. Hon. Speaker, with those many remarks, I beg to move this Motion and request the Leader of the Minority Party, Hon. Wandayi to second.
Yes, Hon. Wandayi.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to make very brief comments. First and foremost, I wish to acknowledge this has been a very tedious and complex exercise that was obviously bound to generate a lot of interest and anxiety. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Let me say from the outset what we have before us, in my view, is work in progress. Hon. Members, if you will recall, the Standing Orders dictate that those Members who will be lucky enough to become chairpersons, will have to relinquish their membership in their second or third committees. So, they remain in only one committee each. Of course, this will create more chances and opportunities for other Members who might have been disadvantaged in this first phase of their allocations. A weighty process such as this one is bound to have cases of omission or commission. Again, this will be rectified in the coming one week or so, once the committees settle. Let me also take this opportunity to thank our Members for having been cooperative and developing understanding that in a process such as this one, it is a matter of give and take. You may end up not getting what you had desired, but that is not to mean you have lost out completely. It is such a weighty exercise that every other term of Parliament takes time to eventually have everything settled. As stated by Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah, the demand for specific Committees was enormous. It is an issue that we might want to ventilate on in future. What interests Members in these specific Committees? What is it in the Budget and Appropriations Committee? What is it in the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing? What is it in the Departmental Committee on Energy? What is it in the Committee on Administration and National Security? This is a discussion that we may want to have in future for us to be able to address the concerns and interests of Members in the coming years so that we do not have this kind of commotion. By and large, it is an exercise that has called for serious negotiations and deliberations.
With those few remarks, I second.
Order, Hon. Members! I now put the Question.
There being no desire to debate this matter, I will put the Question.
Hon. Members, it is important to bring to your attention that Committees will be facilitated from Monday to have their inaugural meetings and elect the Chairs because there is a lot of work awaiting you. I want to direct that the Committee responsible for security that will be vetting the Inspector General of Police be facilitated as early as tomorrow morning to sit and elect their Chair and Vice-Chair, so that they can get into business with the Senate Committee to vet the nominee next week.
Order, Hon. Members. Order, Leader of the Majority Party
Hon. Speaker, as you are aware, our new Cabinet Secretaries have just been sworn in. With your indulgence, I beg to defer this Motion on Sessional Paper No. 3 on the National Action Plan on Business and Human Rights. I would want to engage with the new Cabinet Secretaries to see if this Sessional Paper conforms to the policies and plans that are laid out by the new administration. I beg your indulgence that we step down this particular Motion and move on to Order No. 10.
It is so ordered as requested.
Was there any Member on the Floor? If there was none, I give the floor to Hon. Lisa Chelule. She is not in. The Hon. Didmus Barasa. Hon. Members, we are at order No. 10.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this chance to support this important Motion. I regret that even though it is a good Motion that will see the Government recognise village elders, I am worried that it cannot be enforced by Government because it is not a Bill. I served in the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security in the 12th Parliament for about two years and the Principal Secretary indicated to the Committee that the reason why… The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Order, Members surrounding the Member of Kathiani. Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Robert Mbui, you are holding a kamukunji within the plenary and it is not right. Should you wish to consult, you can go to the lobby out there and have your caucuses. The Member on the Floor would wish to be heard in silence.
Hon. Speaker, I hope that you will add me the minutes that have been lost due to the Members conversing in high tones. The reason as to why village elders are not being paid is because they are not included in the structure of Public Service Commission. We will ask the Public Service Commission to consider village elders from the schedules of civil servants who should be paid. It is immoral and bad manners to engage people when you do not pay them anything. If the Government of Kenya does not recognise village elders, then they should be told to pack and go so that their roles can be taken over by other Government officers who are paid salaries. For very many years, this House has been giving the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government billions of shillings in the disguise of confidential vote from what they usually call “Other operating expenses.’’ This money is not being utilised properly. Most of this money was being used in the previous elections to perpetuate political missions. We now have a responsible Government that respects everybody who is serving the country. I am hopeful that the Kenya - Kwanza Government will give some stipend to the village elders who play a very important role. Had it not been for village elders, we would have a backlog of cases in our courts because some of the disputes are resolved by the village elders. The only way to pay and appreciate them is to give them a stipend or a salary. As we support this Motion, we should ensure that we have an answer. When Government asks for money to fund programmes in the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government, we will put them to account, to ensure that they have a budget and a plan to appreciate and pay village elders. Similar Motions have been brought to the Floor of this House by Members in the 8th, 9th and 12th Parliament. The House cannot continue to legislate in vain. This should be the last Motion on this. We will ensure that during presentation of Budget Policy Statements, the Departmental Committee on National Administration and Security will consider entrenching the salary of village elders in the budget. The work of the National Assembly is to assist the Government in serving her people. It is our humble duty to ensure that when the Departmental Committee on National Administration and Security begins to plan their activities for the remainder of the year, they should consider this matter. They must always remember that we have Kenyans in the name of village elders who are suffering. They wake up very early to report to the chief’s office and stay until evening. Most of them have bills to pay, they have children who require school fees yet they are not engaged in any other activities besides working for the Government of Kenya. They do not work for charity. The Government must therefore pay them. Even as we try to engage the Government to pay these village elders, we should be aware that for that to happen a structure would be created to put their qualifications. A number of them may be required to retire since they are above 60 years. Others do not have the requisite education. We will ensure that even if the Government will come up with a structure on how to pay them and put some qualifications, those who will not qualify should be given a one-off payment because they have been working for this Government for very many years. Thank you, Hon. Mwengi Mutuse for bringing this Motion on the Floor of the House. It is a very good Motion. Hon. Mutuse is a first-term Member of Parliament. He is beginning his term on the right footing. I wish him well. I support this Motion. Thank you.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Patrick Makau. Order! My good friend, Hon. Robert Mbui can I give you free advice? Retreat out of the Chamber and hold your caucus from there. You are disrupting the business of the House. A number of MPs look very agitated in the manner they are talking to you. If you need protection, I order all those Members to leave that place and go back to their seats and waylay Hon. Mbui outside. All Members surrounding the Member for Kathiani are ordered to leave that place.
I thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Allow me to congratulate you on being elected Speaker of this House. I want to address the issue of Committees. It is the reason why most Members are standing near our Whip. We heard what the Leader of the Majority Party said. We have seen the lists. From what I have seen the opposite side is organised but our side is a bit disorganised. That is why we have meetings. House Business is conducted through committees. I am a Member who has been a Chairperson of a Departmental Committee. When we see Members who are not in any Committee or only one Committee, we are not pleased as representatives of the people. The people who elected us need to see us being effective and participating in Committees. I hope our leadership will listen to us. I request all Members of Azimio to retreat with immediate effect to go through this list. I want to request the leadership of this House to be fair when nominating Members to the various Committees. I will not speak a lot because we are retreating to go through these Committees and their membership. I thank you, Hon. Speaker.
Hon. Majimbo Kalasinga.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker. This is as a very important Motion. I can see bottom-up beginning to work. The work and duties done by village elders are for the purposes of running the Government. They play an integral part in instilling security in the villages. They inform the Government about criminals. They assist the police to manage security in the country. They offer direction to the village on how well to live in a healthy environment by educating the community and instructing them on how to maintain a clean environment. By so doing they assist in controlling infections at the basic unit of administration which is the village. They have been misused for a long time. They even go to the extent of trying to control this Government by trying to assist us on how best we can plant crops, inspect them and advise them on what is best to have in their farms. They give guidance on how to run and plan our farms; and give guidance on health and security. This consideration is long overdue. They should not only be considered in terms of salaries but should also be given uniforms and official attire. They represent Government at a lower level and should therefore, bring out the best image. The good uniforms we see with chiefs, assistant chiefs, Deputy County Commissioners and Assistant County Commissioners at the ground must be given to them.
Currently, the village administrators on the county level earn good money yet the village elders from the national Government go home with nothing. Remuneration will not only encourage them to work hard but also, reduce corruption. They work hard without a salary yet we expect them to survive. How do you want them to live if they do not go the other way around? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, if we pay the village elders, I am sure that they will do a better job at the ground level, and we shall be able to run our programmes easily. If we are to allow the village elders to address our functions, it is a shame! The way they dress and their upkeep is wanting. They must also be treated as civil servants, be well paid and be provided with uniforms. In my opinion, this Motion was long overdue. I congratulate the Member of Parliament who brought it. We shall support it to the end to see to it that they get remunerated. This is one of the ways the Kenya Kwanza Government can support through the bottom-up model. I support. Thank you
Thank you so much. Before I give the next Member a chance to speak, I wish to recognise students who have come to follow our proceedings this afternoon. They are: Olympic High School, Kibera Constituency, Nairobi County; Mukuru Kayaba Primary School, Starehe Constituency, Nairobi County; Naivasha High School, Naivasha Constituency, Nakuru County; Little Angels Academy, Thika Town Constituency, Kiambu County; and Mwihoko Meru Association, Ruiru Constituency, Kiambu County. You are all welcome to follow our proceedings. Thank you so much. The next contributor on this particular Motion is Hon. Titus Lotee of Kacheliba.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to contribute to this Motion in regard to the village elders. As Members have contributed, you would now be aware of the impact the village elders have in this country. They are structured in a way that they form Government at the very basic level. We need to respect the village elders the way we do to the Government. As one of my colleagues said, it is very embarrassing to find village elders representing the Government at the bottom of the hierarchy poorly dressed yet they represent our Government. I would like to add that without the village elders, the kind of work the chiefs are undertaking would be tedious and harder. However, since they have dedicated themselves, and have dedicated their energies, time and resources, as the Legislature, we need to see to it that they are remunerated like any other. In fact, they have contributed to the Government in their way of action. It is therefore, not in order for them to contribute through the work that they do not get anything in return. It is a high time that this House legislates, and ensure that whatever has been passed, is put into action. It is very shameful to see the village elders who also play the role of Judiciary within the villages get neglected, yet others are gloating with money and resources from the Government, and not recognising the work that they do. I want this House to seriously consider that these village elders, mkasas have families, are respected and have been chosen by the communities. I know of village elders who have died in the line of duty. When chiefs are chased away by the people, they at times come and stand in their way to try and intervene and most of the times, they become victims of circumstance and end up suffering. If they can suffer for the cause of this country, my contribution is that they should be paid handsomely, because it is through them that we enjoy some peace even as Members of Parliament back at our constituencies. Some of us come from environments that are considered as conflict prone areas and the village elders come in handy. They take the rod of the Government. As I conclude, I want it to be known that for several years, the village elders have been promised remuneration by the previous Governments. I hope the new Government does not become one of just making promises, but put into action their remuneration and functions. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is also important that we allow the village elders to operate within the chief and assistant chiefs’ offices. They should not work within their homes because at times, we endanger their family members. When they are resolving cases and disputes, these conflicts might at times, boil and spill into their families who end up getting affected as well. Apart from paying them, we need to ensure that the village elders, both male and female, are given official working spaces. I support. Thank you.
Hon Members, today, my intention as the Chair is to follow the order that we have as per the time you requested to speak. Do not therefore, approach me claiming that your card is not working. I will follow the list as it is. Even if you approach me 10 times, I will not change the list. The next Speaker is Hon. Augustine Mwafrika.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for this glorious opportunity. I rise to support the Motion. I will start by advocating that the village elders should be given a statutory recognition for volunteering their services free of charge. The census of 1999 showed that village elders are spread across 6,612 sub-locations in Kenya. They have been at the mercy of the chiefs for a very long time. I advocate that they be remunerated well. We recognise the role of the village elders. They are the ones who carry out the role of disseminating information to the residents on behalf of the Government. They are the ones who sit in the land boards, and assist the security agents to identify criminals. Village elders have a lot of knowledge. Some of them are retired civil servants and teachers. I would like to encourage the Government to tap into their knowledge and remunerate them, as they work with the chiefs. Village elders assist in so many ways, but they do not earn anything. I support the Motion.
If all of us were as brief as Hon. Mwafrika, we all would speak. Member for Soy.
I support the Motion. We need to take care of village elders because they play an important role and are the contact between locals and Government administration. I have never known why they are the only Government officials who are not remunerated, yet assistant chiefs, chiefs and county commissioners are. We need to develop a payment structure for them. The other problem we noted is that village elders require uniforms. As you are aware, all other provincial administrators have uniforms. Uasin Gishu County has provided village elders with uniforms, but they do not look smart. It is important that the Ministry concerned provides uniforms and a payment structure.
Hon. Mogaka. In his absence, the opportunity goes to Hon. Liza Chelule.
Asante Mhe. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa nafasi hii nichangie Hoja hii. Wazee wa mitaa ni viongozi ambao wanafanya kazi nyingi sana. Wanatatua kesi mbali mbali za kifamilia na wizi. Watu wengine wanafikiria kuwa wazee wa mitaa ni wanaume pekee yao; akina mama pia ni viongozi wa mitaa. Naunga mkono Hoja hii ili viongozi hawa walipwe na watambulike kwenye mikutano. Viongozi hawa wanafanya kazi ngumu sana kuliko ya chifu ama hii yetu. Wamesaidia taifa letu kwa muda mrefu. Pia wanafaa kuelimishwa kwa mambo ya uongozi na utendakazi wema. Sio lazima wazee wa mitaa wawe na cheti cha masomo; cheti chao ni hekima kutoka kwa Mungu. Lazima akina mama pia wapatiwe nafasi ya kufanya kazi hii. Bunge linafaa kuhakikisha kuwa wazee wa mitaa na viongozi wa Nyumba Kumi wanalipwa kwa kuwa wanafanya kazi nzuri mitaani. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Mhe. Spika wa Muda, nachukua nafasi hii kuwakaribisha wanafunzi kutoka Nakuru katika Bunge letu. Wazazi wenu walituchagua na wanatuombea. Mtakachojifunza leo katika Bunge hili itaongeza maarifa yenu; na miaka 10 ama 14 ijayo, mnaweza kuwa Wajumbe.
Member for Luanda.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, I stand to support the Motion on remuneration of village elders, who play a very important role in villages. They are opinion leaders in the community. They take a lot of risks on behalf of the Government of Kenya to ensure that things move, but they lack the basic tools of assignment. They need to be paid. These are men and women who wake up every morning to work for the community. While their bosses – chiefs and assistant county commissioners – go home with pay at the end of the month, these men of integrity go home empty handed. It is, therefore, in order for the Government to pay and appreciate them. Many a times, we run to them for counsel, information and guidance. Whenever the Government wants to get information from every village, these are the contact persons. It is quite unfair that these people continue to work for the Government and the community at large with no pay. I come across these people; they are very dedicated and committed. While other Government officers enjoy their pay, village elders go home hungry. I, therefore, support that they be paid. It may appear a little difficult. However, a lot of money is lost through corruption and other channels. All this money can be used to pay them and we shall be able to pay our men and women who guide our villages down there. These people, as earlier said, are opinion leaders. Whenever we want to get information, seek counsel or find an idea about a community, more often than not we go back to community leaders.
I therefore stand to support the Motion that we need to come up with a structure. We need to come up with a way of appreciating these great people. If possible, even give them tools of trade. Sometimes they are called upon to work at night without even a torch, warm clothes or protection gear. Are they are supposed to buy them by themselves? We have situations where drugs and substance abuse happens in villages. We need to work with a structure that will put these people in a system whereby, as we pay the Chief, Assistant Chief, Assistant County Commissioner (ACC) or County Commissioner (CC), we have a way in which we can reward and remunerate them. That is so that they may have decent living and some sense of dignity in execution of their duties. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
Hon. David Ochieng’)
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the very important Motion brought by Hon. Mwengi Mutuse, MP for Kibwezi West. First and foremost, I wish to begin by stating that I brought such a Motion in the last Parliament, the 12th Parliament. It was debated and passed by this House but implementation became a problem, as usual. I made several follow-ups with the Committee on Implementation. Their position was that the Government did not have money to implement the execution of a Motion similar to this one. Therefore, as we debate, it is important to note that there are other hurdles on our way. They may actually hinder the implementation of such an important resolution by this House. Be that as it may, that was the other Government which is now out of power. We have in place a new Government that minds the welfare of the people of Kenya. As said, this is an example of the bottom-up approach of the Kenya Kwanza Government whereby the lowest persons on the pyramid are uplifted so that they can also live like human beings. Village elders who are known by various titles in various areas of Kenya are very important persons who play a pivotal role in administration of the country. It is important to note that the basic The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
administrative unit in Kenya is the village. This is the reason village elders are part of the Government system despite the fact that there is no formal recognition and remuneration. It is also important to note the roles they play because they are first and foremost the village courts. They are the arbiters who decide on cases, both civil and criminal—civil in as much as villagers are not able to go to court and, therefore, look for quicker solutions to their problems, including arbitration by village elders. Criminal in that sometimes it is important to encourage reconciliation amongst villagers so that they live harmoniously without having to result to the criminal justice system. They are also for all intents and purposes the family court. They decide matters family, reconcile families when they are in dispute, decide on divorces and marriages, and all other things that touch on the family life.
Senior, Hon. Murugara, you know the rules.
Hon. David Ochieng’)
(Hon. David Ochieng’)
I am sorry, but I am not reading. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am holding the Order Paper.
Hon. David Ochieng’)
Thank you very much. I am just holding the Order Paper. It looks like I am reading. I am not reading at all. This is what village elders do. They play very important roles, including assisting the Government from the very basic structure, assisting the Assistant Chiefs and the Chiefs in execution of their duties. With such roles, there is vital need to amend the National Government and Coordination Act so that we entrench villages as units of administration and village elders as part of our national Government. It is important to report to this House that when we vetted the Cabinet Secretary of the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government, the learned Prof. Kithure Kindiki, he was quite candid that he will consider this as one of his priorities.
Hon. Jared Okello, what is out of order?
Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I did not intend to cut short my brother’s speech. I have an issue or two to raise, with your indulgence. This relates to the prevailing situation across our constituencies. In the last Parliament, there was a pending issue from National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) to all constituencies. A particular amount of money amounting to Kshs13 million was owed to constituencies by NG-CDF. The first Supplementary Budget that we passed here touched on about Kshs4 billion which was to be expended to these constituencies. As we speak today, most students are at home. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
How does that relate to Hon. Murugara’s Motion?
No, it is not, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Just allow me to prosecute this matter because it touches across all constituencies. We have people holed up in villages, still at home and cannot access schools because of this Kshs13 million owed to constituencies. I ask your kind office for indulgence to help us pursue this money through the NG-CDF Board.
Thank you so much, Hon. Jared Okello.
Will you allow me to prosecute the second issue in just one minute?
Not so. My advice to you on this matter is that you either approach the Speaker through his office, do a letter to him or prepare a formal Motion for debate before the Floor. Hon. Murugara will proceed.
I will do so. I am well guided.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Sorry for that interlude which possibly did not relate to what I was saying. I am urging this House to move away from these Motions and Petitions because we have done so. I did this in 2018. I was also informed that a similar Motion or Petition had passed and it had been ignored. We now need to move quickly and amend the National Government and Coordination Act so that we entrench the village and village elders as part and parcel of the national Government administration system. It is important. The reason we say so is that we also have another entity known as Nyumba Kumi under village elders. NyumbaKumi are possibly the foot soldiers of village elders. They are the persons who execute most of the mandate on behalf of Assistant Chiefs. These people do it free of charge. It is voluntary. They are not paid for it. Whatever appreciation they get is in form of mundane items. Where possible, they get the local brew. When you slaughter a goat or a sheep, you may give them a head, hooves or whatever. This is not a good way of remunerating such important persons. It is vitally important that we, as the House of Parliament, reconsider what we are to do with this especially because of our new Government that is in place. The Government is quite keen that it shall not leave anybody behind. If that is the case, we have to relook at our budget and where we take our money. How much goes to roads, water and security? We must find some money for village elders and such units of administration. It is my humble submission that as I urge the House to pass this Motion, we have to think ahead. We are urging the Government to implement this Motion. We have to be very careful, because we may be faced with the same answers when we go to the National Treasury; that there is no money in the budget, and that we do not have much that can help these people. The Mover of this Motion and ourselves have to look at the possible amendments so that these people can be entrenched in our laws. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
Well said. Hon. Charles Onchoke of Bonchari.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. Everywhere in the country, village elders are the unsung heroes. Rarely are they recognised or appreciated for what they do. The functions they perform across the country include arbitration, mediation and reconciliation at the lowest level of administration in our country. It is, therefore, critical and important that we consider them for payment by the Government. In my Constituency of Bonchari, at least 80 per cent of disputes – be they matrimonial, land-related cases, or petty crimes – are resolved by village elders. They rarely go through the formal judicial system, which is often very complex, expensive, time-consuming and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
intimidating. So, these matters are settled by able village elders who should be recognised and feted. Just as we have awards like the Chief of the Order of the Burning Spear (CBS) and all those accolades that we normally award to people who have performed well, they should also be rewarded for what they do because they toil every day. They expend their energy, time and money so that we can live in peace, resolve these disputes and have our villages in one piece. I also support the idea that villages should be administrative units within our systems of administration under the Ministry of Interior and National Administration as soon as possible. The skills and the time village elders expend, as well as the money they use to move from one point to another so that they can execute their duties is tantamount to slavery. They put in their time, but they are not compensated or given anything, which is contrary to the law. It is wrong, immoral, and against the Constitution. For that reason, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support the Motion that village elders be remunerated properly; and that villages be recognised in our administrative units in the country. I support the Motion.
Hon. Timothy Toroitich of Marakwet West.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this time to contribute to this Motion. I thank Hon. Mutuse, who brought this Motion before this House. This is a matter that is dear to my heart. I remember when I campaigned in Marakwet West Constituency, one of the things that I promised village elders is that I would address this issue on the Floor of the House. I thank God for this opportunity to address this matter. Village elders perform very critical functions in this country. In fact, the irony of it is that whereas village elders are assigned functions, they are not remunerated. That is something that this House must pursue so that they can be remunerated well when the time comes. Article 159 of the Constitution talks about judicial authority. Article 159(2) talks about alternative forms of dispute resolution. One form of alternative dispute resolution is the traditional dispute resolution mechanism. I believe that once village elders or village units are gazetted and recognised by law, they will play a very critical role in terms of settling disputes in a traditional manner. Village elders have a lot of knowledge on matters to do with culture and solving disputes. They will play a very critical role when it comes to issues of dispute resolution. If we are to achieve this, we must look at amending the National Government Coordination Act of 2013. This is because even if we pass a Motion in this House, yet we do not have legislation that will anchor village units and elders in law, we may not be able to achieve the matter that has been brought before this House. To realise this, yesterday, my friend, Hon. Mutuse, informed this House that he has already submitted a legislative proposal. Equally, I have submitted a legislative proposal to the Speaker intending to amend the National Government Coordination Act to include village elders as part of the administrative authority in this country. It is my prayer that when the Bill to amend the National Government Coordination Act comes to this House, village elders will be legally anchored in law and, as such, they will be duly remunerated like other officers who are provided for in that Act. Chiefs and assistant chiefs have assigned functions to village elders, yet they are just exercised arbitrarily. At the end of it, village elders are not remunerated. I find that the ultimate way of achieving this is by anchoring village units in legislation. That will be the only way of ensuring that village elders get their remuneration in a lawful and legal manner. I support this Motion. I thank the Hon. Member for this Motion.
Hon. Members, there are Members who are coming here, saying that their cards are not working. I am not in a position to help The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
with a card issue. The Clerks-at-the-Table can help with card issues. There are those who are putting their cards and not pressing the request button. Again, I ask that when you put your card, you should press the button. Do not say that you came here at 2.30 p.m., and you have not been seen. When you ask the Clerks-at-the-Table, they say that you did not press the button as required. This chance goes to Hon. Dan Wanyama.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. From the outset, I support the Motion by Hon. Mutuse because village elders are an integral part of the national Government. They do quite a lot in terms of helping chiefs and assistant chiefs and, consequently, the Government at large. From where I sit, village elders are like the legs of the national Government. There is no way the national Government can operate without legs, if it is to be effective. So, we indicate to the new Government that these are Kenyans who have given service without being appreciated.
Even during the 10th Parliament, this Motion was brought to this House by Hon. Eugene Wamalwa. It was debated and passed but nothing was done. I want to advise Hon. Mutuse. We will bring a Bill that will pave the way for village elders to be paid salary. However, there is a quick fix. Nowadays chiefs and Deputy County Commissioners get some imprests. Because these people have suffered for quite some time, I urge the incoming Cabinet Secretary to enhance the imprests for these officers so that they can pay stipends to village elders before the Bill is enacted into law in order for them to be paid salaries. The stipend will, in the meantime, help village elders to improve their lives. Whatever they do is a very big role. The Government actually needs them. It is important to appreciate them.
If we have a regulation and policy that take care of village elders in a very organized manner, they will help the Judiciary in terms of reducing the number of minor cases proceeding to court. Village elders will handle such matters with their Assistant Chiefs and many problems can be sorted out. The courts are flooded with minor cases that can be handled by the village elders.
Where we stand at the moment, a stipend can help. The imprests that go to Deputy County Commissioners and Chiefs can be used to temporarily pay stipend to village elders as we look forward to enactment of a legislation to provide for proper remuneration of village elders.
With those remarks, I beg to support the Motion.
Thank you. The next chance goes to Hon. Paul Katana, who will be followed by Hon. Bishop Kosgei.
Asante, Mhe. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi hii. Kabla nichangie Hoja hii, ningependa kuwashukuru wakazi wa Kaloleni kwa kunipatia nafasi ya kuweza kuwahudumia kwa kipindi cha pili. Hii ni mara ya kwanza kwa Mjumbe Kaloleni kuchaguliwa kipindi cha pili kwa muda wa zaidi ya miaka ishirini.
Wazee wa mitaa ni kiungo muhimu katika utawala wa mkoa. Wanafanya kazi ngumu sana. Kabla chifu, msaidizi wa County Commissioner au Naibu wa County Commissioner The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
kupata Habari kuhusu suala lolote kule mashinani, mtu wa kwanza anayetafutwa ni mzee wa mtaa. Hata hivyo, wazee wa mitaa hawakutambuliwa na Serikali zilizopita.
Serikali hii imesema muundo msingi wake ni kuanzia chini kwenda juu. Tunaomba Serikali hii iweze kuwatambua wazee wa mitaa na iangalie ni kiwango gani wanaweza kulipwa ili waweze kuhudumia wananchi.
Mhe. Spika wa Muda, eneo Bunge langu la Kaloleni limeshuhudia visa vya mauaji ya wazee. Mzee akiuawa na polisi wafike, wanauliza mzee wa mtaa alikuwa wapi mtu yule akiuawa. Wazee wa mitaa wamekuwa wakihangaishwa sana lakini hakuna mtu ambaye amewahi kuwambia asante kwa ile kazi wanayofanya. Hoja hii imekuja wakati mzuri. Wasiwasi wangu ni kwamba katika mwaka wa 2018 tulipitisha Hoja kama hii inayosema kwamba ni lazima wazee wa mitaa wafidiwe lakini Hoja hiyo haikutekelezwa kwa kisingizio kwamba hakuna pesa. Safari hii tunaiomba Serikali iliyopo, kupitia Wizara ya Masuala ya Ndani na Utawala, watenge pesa maalum katika bajeti zao ambazo zitashughulikia marupurupu ya wazee wa mitaa. Hawa ndio wanaeleza Serikali shida zinazowakumba wananchi kule mashinani.
Hivi sasa kuna kiangazi ambacho kinawasumbua wananchi. Wazee wa mitaa na wazee wa nyumba kumi ndio wanaotumika kutoa majina ya wale watu ambao wanateseka na ukame lakini chakula kinapogawanywa, wao hawawezi kuwa katika orodha ya wale ambao wana shida ya njaa. Hili ni jambo la kusikitisha. Wazee wa mitaa wako na familia zao na watoto ambao wanatakiwa kwenda shuleni lakini hakuna msaada wowote kutoka kwa Serikali ambao wanapata ili watoto wao waende shuleni. Watoto wengi wa wazee wa mitaa na wazee wa nyumba kumi wanaendelea kubaki nyumbani. Pengine ile pesa walikuwa wanategemea ni ule mfuko wa maendeleo ya maeneo Bunge (NG-CDF), ambao bado haujapatikana sasa. Kwa hivyo, ni muhimu tuweze kuwatambua wazee wa mitaa. Ninawaomba Wajumbe wenzangu, kwa sababu wazee wa mitaa wametusaidia kwa njia moja ama nyingine na kuimarisha usalama katika maeneo Bunge yetu, waipitishe Hoja hii na pendekezo hili lishughulikiwe na kuwa sheria ili wazee wa mitaa waweze kufidiwa. Vilevile, hao wazee ni lazima watafutiwe sare maalum ili waweze kutambulika mitaani. Ningependa nguo hizo ziwekwe majina yao ili wananchi waweze kuwatambua kwa rahisi na watoe huduma kwa wakaazi kwenye mitaa wanakohudumu. Ninaomba tuipitishe Hoja hii kwa haraka ili Serikali iweze kutenga pesa mara moja za kuwasaidia hawa Wazee wa mitaa na mabalozi wa nyumba kumi.
Kwa hayo mengi, naunga mkono.
(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): I thank you, Hon. Katana. Hon. Bishop Kosgei.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I take the Floor to support the Motion on recognition and remuneration of village elders, who are known as “headmen.” All this has been known for many years. It is increasingly becoming important globally for governments to embrace citizens’ participation and involvement in the decision-making processes.
In order to enhance efficacy in appreciation of regulations given in the interpretation of laws that affect people and even benefit them, the grassroot leadership of our society is very important. When we got our independence, there was a slogan by our founding fathers which says
Grassroot leaders become the custodians and protectors of our norms. Therefore, they enhance values in our society.
It is important for this august House to pay attention to village elders through the passage of this Motion and the subsequent legislation that will follow in order to not only empower them The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
as proposed but also develop a policy framework that will strengthen them. This will enhance the social order, security and development efficacy in terms of prioritization by government.
With those remarks, I support the Motion.
(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much. Next is Hon. Bisau Kakai, Member for Kiminini.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Motion is very crucial in terms of what we promised our constituents during the campaigns leading to the last general elections. I thank Hon. Mutuse for moving it. The first point of contact in our constituencies are village elders. When a cow or boda boda is stolen, or when there is domestic violence or a dead body is found by the roadside, the first point of contact is the village elder. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration, regional commissioners, county commissioners, sub-county commissioners and other administrators would be living in space without village elders. However, village elders have completely been neglected. The government that has been formed believes in bottom-up policy and it is going to implement this Motion. Village elders stick with us through thick and thin. They ensure that we have security. Where do they get airtime to make phone calls to the security apparatus? Some of them have to move around at night even during the rainy season. They need warm clothes, which they buy using their own funds. They need gumboots and torches. Who buys these things for them? How do they move from point “A” to point “B” when they are called to respond to an issue? I would like to request that this Motion is taken seriously by the appropriate Ministry in terms of establishing clear terms of reference. However, it does not mean that when new terms of reference are put in place, we ignore those who are already in place. The terms should enable us to have the best village elders. A village elder should have people-oriented skills and be someone who is respectable in society. He or she should be a peacemaker and someone who appreciates diversity. Paying them is not sufficient. We should see to it that they have a medical cover through the National Health Insurance Fund (NHIF). They should have a pension fund so that they have something to fall back to when they attain retirement age or when they decide to quit service.
There are situations where some people masquerade as village elders. Since village elders support the security apparatus, they should have uniform in addition to other gear like gumboots. For mobility and better coordination, village elders should be given motorcycles. I will bring a Motion to support village elders through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). With those remarks, I support the Motion.
(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you. Hon. Members, I would like to recognize the presence of pupils of Olashapani Primary School from Narok South, Narok County; and Ngondi Primary School from Naivasha, Nakuru County. I would like to give the next opportunity to Hon. Jayne Kihara.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving a chance to contribute to the Motion. As I support the Motion, I would like to take the opportunity to welcome Ngondi Primary School pupils to this great House and wish them well. This Motion is very important. We have seen village elders suffer while doing public work. As it has been said, they are the first point of call within the public administration structures as they are at the grassroot-level. In fact, these are the first set of hustlers that this government is committed to assist. They do a lot of work. When it comes to intermarriages, they are the ones who explain what happens in different cultures and put families and communities at ease. Whenever we meet them, they ask us to talk to the government to give them something. I am surprised that a similar Motion that was passed in this House previously The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
has not been implemented. This is the right time for village elders to be remunerated. They help chiefs in administration. This is the right time to remunerate these great Kenyans. With those remarks, I beg to support.
(Hon. (Dr) Rachel Nyamai): Hon. Bady Twalib, Member for Jomvu.
Asante sana, Mhe. Spika wa muda. Nataka kuungana na wenzangu katika kuiunga mkono Hoja hii. Wazee wa mitaa ni wazee ambao wanafanya kazi kubwa sana katika maeneo ya mitaa yetu. Tukiangalia, ni wazee ambao walifanya kazi miaka yote wakisaidia katika kudumisha amani. Vilevile, kukitokea matatizo hao ndio watu wa kwanza ambao wanafuatwa. Tukiangalia kabla ya chifu, sub-chief, Assistant County Commissioner (ACC) ama Deputy County Commissiner (DCC) kujua yanayoendelea kule nyanjani, ni muhimu sana anaangalia kuuliza mzee wa mtaa. Leo katika sehemu nyingi sana, wazee wa mitaa wanafanya kazi kubwa, haswa kufuatilia masuala ya usalama. Kwa mfano, katika sehemu yangu moja ya Kitui, ambako mheshimiwa Bwire, mbunge wa Taveta, ana makao yake, utaona mzee wa mtaa anayeitwa Mzee Gona ndiye anayemwangalilia mambo yake pale. Kwa hivyo, leo hii, kama Mbunge wa Jomvu, ningependa kusema kuwa naunga mkono hawa wazee wa mitaa watambuliwe. Kama vile wanavyotambulika chief, subchief, ACC na DCC, ni muhimu pia hiyo structure iwatambue wazee wa mtaa katika sehemu zetu. Vile wanavyolipwa wengine ni muhimu pia wazee hawa watambuliwe. Hawa wazee wako na familia, wanasomesha watoto na wanaishi katika hali duni. Hawana hali ya kuweza kujikimu kimaisha na kulipa kodi ya nyumba. Ikipitishwa kwamba wazee hawa wataweza kulipwa, basi wataweza kujisaidia katika maisha yao.
Mhe. Spika wa Muda, si wazee wa mtaa peke yao ambao wanastahili kulipwa. Wahudumu wa afya katika jamii pia wanastahili kuangaliwa vizuri. Wao pia wanafanya kazi kwa kujitolea bila malipo. Wao pia wanastahili kusaidika. Katika maeneo Bunge, kuna wazee ambao umri wao ni mkubwa na kuna wengine ambao umri wao ni mdogo. Wote bado wanasimamia vijiji vyetu. Sisi tunawapamba tu kwa kuwapatia majina kama mabalozi na mengineyo, lakini majina hayataweza kusaidia. Pesa mfukoni ndiyo itaweza kuwasaidia wazee hawa wa mitaa ili kuona kwamba wanafanya kazi yao katika njia bora. Mhe. Spika wa muda, nachukua fursa hii kusema kwamba kuna zile pesa za wazee. Umri uliowekwa ili wazee waweze kuhitimu kupata pesa hizo ni mukubwa sana. Kwa hivyo, ni vizuri pia Bunge hili lizingatie suala hili. Badala ya kuweka umri wa miaka 65 ama 70 ndiyo waweze kufaidiaka na pesa za wazee, ninapendekeza miaka hii ipunguzwe. Siku hizi shida zimekuwa nyingi. Kufikisha umri wa miaka 60 au 70 ni bahati kubwa sana kutoka wakati wa Yesu. Shida zilizoko siku hizi ni nyingi, na wazee wanakufa wakiwa na umri wa miaka 55 ama 60.
Kwa hivyo, ninaomba umri wa kupokea pesa za wazee upunguzwe mpaka miaka 50. Pesa hizi zinafaa zije nyanjani, kwenye constituencies, ambako sisi ndiyo tunaweza kuona ni wazee wapi ambao wako katika sehemu zetu ili tuweze kuwatambua na kuona kuwa wanapata pesa zao. Mhe. Spika wa Muda, ninachukua fursa hii, kwanza, kuwashukuru sana wazee wa mitaa katika sehemu yangu ya uwakilishi Bungeni ya Jomvu kwa sababu waliniunga mkono na kunirudisha Bungeni kwa mara ya tatu. Mambo niliyowambia nilipokuwa nikifanya kampeni ni haya haya ambayo nayazungumzia hapa Bungeni leo hii – kwamba, ni haki pia wao walipwe. Tukiweza kuyapitisha mambo haya, tutamsihi Mhe. Rais William Samoei Ruto kutia sahihi sheria itakayoundwa kufuatia kupitishwa kwa Hoja, na pesa ambazo zitaenda mashinani kwa malipo yao ziwekwe kwenye Budget haraka iwezekanavyo ili wazee hawa waweze kupata matumaini katika maisha yao. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Ninachukua fursa hii kuwaarifu wazee wa mitaa katika wadi za Miritini, Mikindani na Jomvu Kuu kwamba, Bunge hili linazingatia maslahi yao kwa sababu limetambua kwamba wazee hao wanafanya kazi hizi muhimu. Tukiweza kupata pesa za malipo yao wataweza kunufaika. Mhe. Spika wa Muda, nakushukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii. Wacha nisichukue muda mwingi ili niweze kuwapa wenzangu nafasi ya kuweza kuchangia Hoja hii. Vilivile, nampongeza Mbunge aliyeileta Hoja hii ya maana sana. Kwa hayo machache, naunga mkono.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you. The next chance goes to Hon. Gathoni Wamuchomba, who will be followed by Hon. Reheem Dawood.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to, first, register my concern that in as much as we are all willing to contribute to this debate, I sympathize with the new Members. There seems to be a system that is not working very well in terms of prioritizing who is going to speak. Some of us have been here even before the Hon. Speaker walked into this House. We logged in our cards and have been waiting from 1.45 p.m to now. I can hear, with the spirit in the House, there must be a problem with the logging system. Since I would want my sisters and brothers who have joined this House to have opportunity to defend and fight for the people who elected them, I would request that the management of the House looks into the issue. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have been sitting here for those many hours because I wanted to make my contribution to the Motion on remuneration of village elders, sponsored by Hon. Mwengi Mutuse. He has done a wonderful job to sponsor and present this Motion to this House. To my dissatisfaction and frustration, this Motion is not new in this House. It was tabled and debated in this House during the 12th Parliament. Unfortunately, nothing has been done despite the fact that we passed it then. Village elders are our senior fathers and citizens. They are our brothers and sisters who work tirelessly to keep order in the villages. They are the people who report cases of crime to the police. They are the ones who contain domestic issues. They are also the ones who report accidents and disasters like floods yet they are not recognized positively in terms of payments and facilitation. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I do not know whether we are supposed to be lobbying the House to amend the National Government and Coordination Act of 2013 or we are going to be pushing for the Amendment of the National Social Protection Act. This is because the majority of village elders are retired people. Some of them were public servants who deserve to be paid for the effort they put in the building of this country’s economy. The National Social Protection Act has been very discriminative because we have seen unemployed youths getting absorbed and being engaged for payment under the Kazi kwa Vijana Programme. If we can afford to pay our young people under Kazi kwa Vijana, we should be able to pay our village elders. I do not want to say that Kazi kwa Vijana did not give any input in terms of good work but in equal measure, village elders also do a lot of good work. Since we have been able to allocate money to Kazi kwa vijana for a long time, we should also work hard to make sure that we allocate funds though the Social Protection Act or the National Government Coordination Act 2013 to accommodate the village elders’ payments. I am an elected Member from Githunguri Constituency in Kiambu County. If there is a group of people who really assisted me during the campaign period, and also informed me on a few areas that I needed to concentrate on as their leader, it is the village elders. If there are people that the Government has used for the last 10 years in terms of maintaining order in the villages, they are village elders. It is sad that they have neither uniform nor mobile phone airtime allowance. Some of them go hungry the whole day as they work for the Government but they do not have any way of recognition. It is time we came up with a legislative proposal that is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
going to become law, through amendments of either the Social Assistants Programs Act or the National Government Coordination Act, so that we can have legal basis for recognizing the village as an administrative unit. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate and thank the village elders and all the people of Githunguri Constituency for giving me an opportunity to serve them for the second term as their Member of Parliament. Through my effort, the Geriatric Bill, 2022 that I have already communicated to the Speaker, will enable us, as Government, to look for ways and means of ensuring that senior citizens and elderly persons in this country lead a dignified life. With those remarks, I support.
(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Gathoni. Hon. Members, I am strictly following the schedule so, do not worry. Make sure you have inserted your card unless it is not working. The next person is Hon. Rahim Dawood.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Ninaunga mkono Hoja hii ya wazee wa mtaani ama wa vijiji. Pia tunao vijana na wamama wa umri tofatuti tofauti. Wengine wako na umri mdogo ilhali wengine ni wazee. Cha muhimu ni utendakazi na ushauri wao. Hao ndio huwashika wale wauzaji chang’aa ama walio na mambo mengine kama uhusiano wa uhalifu vijijini. Miaka kumi au kumi na tano iliyopita, nilitaka kuwashoneshea mavazi ndio waweze kujulikana kama wazee wa vijiji lakini niliambiwa haingewezekana maana hayo mavazi ni lazima yawe na virauni vya Serikali. La maana ni wao wanafanya kazi zaidi ya machifu na wasaidizi wa makamishna wa kaunti. Mambo yanapoharibika pale vijijini, wao ndio hufanya kazi kuliko manaibu wa chifu, machifu na wasaidizi wa makamishna wa kaunti. Pia, wanapotembea vijijini, wanatumia pesa zao hata usiku ili wafikishe wahalifu kwenye vituo vya polisi waaandikishe statement na mambo mengine mengi. Hii Hoja ambayo imeletwa na Mhe. Mutuse ni nzuri lakini haitatusaidia kwa sababu inapendekezea Serikali iwape pesa na kuwatambua. Sisi kama Wabunge tutengeneze Mswada ambao utawatambua lakini, tusitumie neno “urges” maana haitoshi. Hii ni kana kwamba tayari Serikali haina mpango na haitachukulia maanani hii Hoja. Hii Hoja ikishamalizika, Mhe. Mutuse aipeleke kwa Karani Mkuu ndio tuibadilishe iwe sheria ndio hao wazee wasaidike. Mhe. Spika wa Muda, nimebakisha dakika mingi na ningependa kumpa Mhe. Wa Emgwen, Hon. Lelmengit, hiyo nafasi. Ninaunga mkono. Asante na Mungu awabariki.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity you have accorded me to contribute to this important Motion on recognition and remuneration of our village elders. I want to start by congratulating the Member who came up with this Motion, Hon Mwengi Mutuse. This is something that has come at the moment that we, as Kenyans, need to talk about ourselves in reality, and discuss issues that are going to touch and impact on our lives. I draw back our attention to the recent concluded period of COVID-19 pandemic. The moment COVID-19 pandemic was declared in Kenya, everybody went into shock. The people who were there to support the Government were none other than the village elders. They sacrificed their lives and were on the frontline including the health workers. The health workers were however compensated by virtue of them being employees at the same time. As for the village elders, they sacrificed a lot. They risked their lives and some of them ended up losing The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
their lives because of getting exposed to the COVID-19 virus in their way of address and support to the society. It is on this merit that we have to be candid in our discussion. I appreciate the fact that families form a unit of a nation; and the people who help us keep families together back in our society are none other than the village elders. I want us to visualise the same people… When a farmer, teacher or Member of Parliament wakes up in the morning to attend to their duties, the elders wake up to small issues in our villages. As we know, big issues start small. At that basic level where they are able to meddle and address issues, where they are able to bring people in dispute together and sort out the small challenges so that as a nation we realise our desired peace and cohesion, we have to appreciate that they are very crucial in our society. As pastoralists, we always refer to them as “where the rubber meets the tarmac.” It is at that level that even the Government is able to execute its programmes down to the people. You cannot tell me today as much as we have a chief and sub-chief being remunerated… That sub-chief would require support of the village elders. I was an accounting security member for finance and for all our programmes to succeed all the time, we had to engage the village elders. It is a moment to recognise and appreciate their service. I appreciate the Member who came up with the Motion that we need to legislate. I am sure the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Planning, however much we discuss and approve this Motion, will not factor in sufficient resources. Nobody should tell us that there is no money to pay them. The opposite is real, that even the much they are contributing if at all we have to tabulate and value the contribution to our society, our Government will not compensate. It is time we considered them even if we are to pay and start a stipend or recognise them by providing essential services like health care by paying for them NHIF, NSSF, commuter allowances and provide their basic needs to enable them support their households. In doing so, we will have made a milestone. It is in the spirit of this Constitution that we are trying to focus and build a nation of cohesion, unity and peace. As I conclude, I consider the fact that we have elderly people where as a matter of practice, and for quite some time, have been receiving the cash transfers. As I speak, I can just describe it as “hot air.” They know that they have a right to access it but in reality it is not in practice. As we discuss this Motion, we should implore upon the Ministry or the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government to ensure that we actualise it so that we have a society that is certain and satisfied with the country they belong. We have such serious elders in my village who assisted me. I can mention Madam Sally. She is an elderly lady but has done a lot even during the campaigns. Kesses Constituency is a cosmopolitan area and believe you me it was difficult to bring the communities together. They however played a vital role by bringing the communities together until we were able to forge a clear direction as the people of Kesses. If we are to go that direction, we will realise a Kenya that is unified. Thank you so much. I support the Motion.
Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to this very important Motion. At the outset, I mentioned that every time I visit my constituency, I meet these village elders and it is a very common cry across board. They say that they have been doing a lot of work for the community and Government and yet they do not get any remuneration for it. I support the Motion but I would like to restrict myself to two areas: One, is to try and add my voice to giving these village elders what I would call “a job description” because it is very important to bring some sort of structure to this very important Motion. With my The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
contribution, I hope to give the Member for Kibwezi, who brought this Motion, some idea on how to actualise this Motion into a Bill that then can become a law in this country. But before I say that, let me admit that security is first on the job description of village elders. They play a very important role in ensuring security of the community. Secondly, they also play a very big role in reconciliation. Today, spouses who disagree go to village elders even before they go to the chief. If a man is chased away by his wife, he reports to the village elder. Even when the opposite happens, they tend to report to village elders. If you look at the country right now, it is facing quite some bit of famine and drought. People who can aid in things like food distribution, identifying needy families, knowing where government help should go without corruption and misuse are the village elders. When it comes to things like bursary allocation, which sometimes as Members of Parliament we struggle with to identify and get to know the most deserving cases, again the village elders play a big role.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Order, Hon. Members. The Motion has been debated for three hours. So, time is up for this debate. I can give you two more minutes. I will give you two minutes.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): I will give you two minutes.
Thank you. I was saying that they also attend to incidents and events. They are actually the village chairmen for weddings, burials and any event that is coming. Like I said, I propose that this whole village elders’ remuneration be structured as follows: First of all we need to agree on whether they will be at a sub-locational, locational or village level so that we give it a structure. The next thing we should agree upon is how many households each elder should be in charge of. Thirdly, ensure that the number of village elders strictly adheres to the two-thirds gender rule. Then ensure that we give them a reasonable stipend, including things like airtime. I sympathise with them. They call us all the time, even at night, reporting cases and telling us where we should help. It is very important that they are given a reasonable stipend and airtime. I support this Motion. And because we have heard that the Motion has come to this House before but it never became an Act, it joins the many Motions that never get implemented, we are really hoping that this can be treated differently. This is because it is very important to ensure that village elders become institutionalised in government administrative units within our sub-locations. I submit and support the Motion. Thank you very much.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you Member for Tetu. Hon. Members, this Motion has been debated for three hours and time is up. I now call upon the Mover to reply. Hon. Mwengi Mutuse.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I have been informed that I cannot donate time, much as many of our colleagues had anticipated donation of time so that they contribute. I have been directed that it is not possible to donate time. If possible, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, Hon. (Eng.) Nzambia, Hon. Malulu Injendi, Hon. Basil Robert and Hon. Sigei the Member for Sotik, wish to contribute. But I am guided that we cannot donate.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Mwengi Mutuse, you can donate.
With your guidance, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Mwengi, I request that you again take me through the order of Members you have indicated and the time you are allocating them. Is it one minute to each?
Hon. (Eng). Nzambia, Member for Kilome; Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, one-and-a-half minutes because he is the Chairperson of the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Budget and Appropriations Committee, or rather let me not preempt; Hon. Basil Robert; Hon. Malulu Injendi and Hon. Beatrice, now that Malulu is not there, one minute each. I have 10 minutes and I have donated five.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): So, one minute for each Member.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, if you allow, let Hon. Gitari have one minute and Hon. Njoroge Wainaina one minute.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, you will follow that order. The first person who has been given a minute is Hon. Nzambia, Member for Kilome, followed by Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, followed by Hon. Malulu Injendi, followed by Hon. Beatrice, then Hon. Gitari and Hon. Njoroge Wainaina, in that order.
Hon. Temporary Speaker, I do not know whether I am in order. With a lot of respect to Hon. Mzee Kombe, because he is one of the oldest Members in this House, I donate one minute to him, if you allow, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): So we start with Hon. Nzambia. You have donated eight of your minutes. You will have two minutes for yourself. Proceed, Hon. Nzambia, Member for Kilome. Please give Hon. Nzambia the microphone.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity. I rise to support this Motion. Let me note that this is not the first time we are debating this Motion. We debated it in the 12th Parliament. It is my sincere hope that this 13th Parliament will move with speed and implement it so that we benefit the village elders. I think most of the Members have really expressed their concerns about our village elders. You know they paly a very crucial role in our villages and communities. In matters security in every village, we are fully covered by village elders. It is because they have a lot of information from the grassroots level. They even take information to the national level, through the assistant chiefs.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.
Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I start by congratulating my brother Hon. Mutuse for this Motion. Second is that village elders, or whatever name we give them, and nyumba kumi heads, play a very critical role in so far as governance is concerned. Therefore, we should appropriate something small for their stipend, especially enable them to make phone calls and have transport when they are going for various meetings and to meet national government officials. We should also invest much in building their capacity so that they know how efficiently to assist in governance and an effective state structure. They also play a very critical role in security and other facets of our economy and country. Therefore, they also should be recognised when we are giving state commendations. That will become a motivation.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Malulu Injendi is absent. Let us have Hon. Beatrice.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support the Motion. I am a product of village elders. My father and father-in-law were village elders. They deserve recognition as they are among the few civil servants whose input is reflected in all the three arms of Government. For example, in the Executive, they carry out the role of disseminating information from the Government about education, health, environmental conservation and all that. Village elders are key pillars of the legislative arm of the Government. For instance, for Members of Parliament, who include Members of the National Assembly and Senators, they help a lot when it comes to the issuance of bursaries. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): That is the Member for Kericho. Let us have Hon. Gitari.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance. I thank my brother for bringing this Motion. Village elders do a lot of good work wherever they are. We have used them during campaigns and while giving out bursaries. I would like to tell my brother that this Motion is not appearing in this House for the first time. It was also there in the 12th Parliament but did not go anywhere. I am happy because I will be praying for Hon. Ndindi Nyoro to become the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. He is here. We can now go to another level, noting that our Government has a bottom-up philosophy. I also congratulate all the Cabinet Secretaries who were sworn in today because the Government will start working. I also thank the Committee on Selection for forming the committees so that from next week, we can start working. Thank you.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Let us have Hon. Njoroge Wainaina.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am sure I will get an opportunity to give my maiden speech because I have not done so. First, I thank Hon. Mutuse for seeing and noticing my presence. I have not been able to catch the eye of any Speaker, including you. In any case, I would like to thank the people of Kieni who came out in their thousands and supported me by voting for me. I am with them during this time of great famine in Kieni. We are looking for food in every way possible. I am with our candidates in Classes Six, Eight and Form Four. I know they are going through hard times, going to school without food, but we are still working on that. On matters of the debate that is in front of us today…
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Hon. Mutuse had only donated one minute to you, but I can see that you had put your card for the next Motion. You can participate in the next Motion. Let us have Hon. Basil.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also thank my brother, Hon. Mutuse, for bringing this very essential Motion. Village elders play a very salient role because they provide intelligence to the Government. They need to be paid because without them, the functions of the Deputy County Commissioners (DCC), chiefs and assistant chiefs would be rendered vestigial. This is a very critical Motion. I fully support them, I promised them during my campaigns. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Let us have Hon. Kombe.
Ahsante, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Ahsante Mhe. wa Kibwezi Magharibi, kwa kunipa nafasi katika muda wako wa kujibu Hoja hii. Hoja hii imekuja wakati unaofaa. Sio mara ya kwanza tunazungumzia Hoja hii. Tulipitisha Hoja hii katika Bunge la Tisa na pia katika Bunge la Kumi na Moja. Ni maombi yangu kuwa katika kipindi hiki, Hoja hii itiliwe maanani na Serikali yetu mpya. Natumai kwamba ikiwa itawezekana, pia wazee wa mitaa wafikiriwe katika ule mfuko wa wachochole ama hustlers na kupewa sehemu ya mfuko huo, ili waweze kupata hata pikipiki za kuwawezesha kufanya kazi yao vizuri. Tukizingatia wale senior village elders, kule kwangu kuna Mzee Magogo ambaye anafanya kazi nzuri sana katika sehemu ya Magarini. Wengi wao wanafanya kazi nzuri. Ikifika wakati wa kugawa chakula, wao ndio huwa kipaumbele kutujuza ni wapi kunahitajika msaada. Ahsante, Mhe. Spika wa Muda. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Now, let us have Hon. Mwengi Mutuse.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I now rise to reply to the Motion. I will begin by thanking Members for the great interest they have shown in this Motion, and for the great contributions that have gone into it since yesterday. Most contributors have informed the House that this is not new. In the 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and now 13th parliaments, Members debated similar Motions. That is enough justification to show that it is an important matter that needs to be expedited in terms of execution. You also notice that Members have improved the Motion a great deal. They have given their contributions in terms of what village elders are supposed to do and their job description. We also notice the caution that we must not use them politically. Therefore, with the resolution and tremendous support the Motion has received, I urge the House to now move to ensure that it is enforced, and our village elders begin to receive remuneration, even as I bring amendments to the law. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to reply.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Thank you very much, Hon. Mutuse, Member for Kibwezi West. I see that we have an intervention by the Member for Endebess, Hon. Pukose.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I know that this is a very important Motion that has been replied to. I stand under Standing Order 53(3) that the Speaker may, on the request of a Member, defer the putting of the Question to the next Sitting, in which case the Speaker shall, therefore, nominate a time at which the Question shall be put. Looking at the House, we do not have the quorum to allow you to put the Question. This is a very important Motion so I ask that you defer putting the Question to the next sitting that you will decide on, when we have quorum. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachel Nyamai): Hon. Pukose, your request is acceded to. I, therefore, direct that the Question on the Motion be put during the next Sitting of the House.
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Yussuf Hassan. Is he in the House?
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai
(Hon. (Dr.) Rachael Nyamai