Hon. Members, there is no quorum. Ring the Division Bell.

Hon. Members, we do not have quorum. I direct that the Quorum Bell be rung for ten minutes.

I direct that the bell be rung for another 10 minutes.

We now have quorum. You may proceed.

Mover.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 120, this House resolves to reduce the publication period of the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023) from seven (7) days to one (1) day. Hon. Deputy Speaker, the reason for doing this is that June is usually a very heavy month both for Parliament and Executive through the National Treasury. There are very many things to consider around the same period. Yesterday, we considered the Finance Bill. We have also been considering the Budget Estimates. We are still considering the Equalisation Fund Bill, and several other Bills that are geared towards the public finances of this country. That is why I am seeking to reduce this period. Lastly, debate on Supplementary Appropriation (No. 2) Bill, will not make any sense if we do not conclude it today. End of next week is 30th June, and the Financial Year of 2022/2023 will be lapsing. Therefore, I seek that we reduce this period so that the work that we have done and continue to do regarding Supplementary Appropriation (No. 2) Bill can make sense in terms of actualisation. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I request the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Blue Economy and Irrigation, Hon. Bowen Kangogo, to second.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to second this Motion by the Chair of Budget and Appropriation Committee, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. We have a number of constitutional Bills that have timelines. We have the County Allocation Bill, Equalisation Bill and Appropriation Bill, which are very important for this House and the country, so that we can have money disbursed to our counties and to this House. I do not want to belabour too much. I second.

Next Order.

Mover.

Thank you very much. The Bill that we are considering today is the Appropriation Bill in regard to Supplementary (No. 2). We are considering a net reduction of Ksh24 billion for the Financial Year 2022/23. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move: THAT, the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023, be now read a Second Time. The essence of this kind of supplementary that comes in the wee hours of the year is to align the Government expenditure and revenues. As Members are aware, budgets are usually projections, and they are not static. We project to have this kind of revenue. Therefore, we budget our expenditures based on the projected revenue. As the year ends, the amount of money we are likely to collect as revenue becomes clearer and more accurate. Our duty as a House is to be realistic because budgets are laws, so that we align that law with the right figure in mind, especially as we come to the close of the year. This Bill seeks a gross reduction in development expenditure by around Ksh34 billion while adding Ksh9 billion to Recurrent Expenditure. I have heard Hon. John Mbadi say: “We cannot continue to add recurrent, as we reduce development.” The justification is that there is some Recurrent Expenditure that is capital in nature. If you peruse the Appropriation Bill that we are considering, you will see that there is additional Recurrent Expenditure in regard to the education sector. This money is not going towards travel or frivolous expenditure. It is going towards salaries of junior secondary school teachers. Therefore, this kind of recurrent expenditure that capacitates our labour force cannot be put in the same line as general operations and maintenance costs that usually constitute Rrecurrent Expenditure. Therefore, the recurrent expenditure that we are talking about capitalises on Kenyans in terms of education. This is because labour, as one of the top factors of production, is only refined, made better, and value added to it through education. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

There are also several other things, with regard to Recurrent Expenditure, given the period that we are considering this Bill. In the recent past, we have had to draw money from the National Treasury to support Kenyans who may need food. Some of that money in the form of Recurrent Expenditure is going into that sphere. I also want to cite something else and bring it to the attention of Members. It is not bad to repeat it so that we get sense out of it. I was talking to Hon. Gikaria today because his Committee oversees ministries, departments, and agencies (MDAs) that could be very rich in Appropriations-in-Aid (A-in-A). We noted and commented on the same point during the Second Reading of the previous Bill that there is a deliberate decision cutting across almost all MDAs to understate A-in-A. This country is very rich. As we serve in this House and represent Kenyans, I have concluded that except for departments that offer pure public goods like security, public health and basic education, majority of our MDAs could run without drawing from the Exchequer or the Consolidated Fund. This country is very rich and has great capacity through institutions of Government to collect A-in-A. We noted something that drove me to make this point. We always have a gross under-estimation of A-in-A every time we consider the main budget. Therefore, when we consider the Second Supplementary Estimates, MDAs show up to request the National Treasury to be permitted to expend resources in the form of A-in-A. That is usually very tempting because when MDAs appear before the Committee, they do not request for any money; they only request for authorisation. It becomes very tempting to give them that authority. We resolved as the Budget and Appropriations Committee that going forward, we will base projections of A-in-A on recently collected A-in-A, and not through projections made by various MDAs. Lastly, we have also seen the tendency for a very low absorption rate of resources on foreign-funded projects. Any project that is supported by foreign development partners has a very low absorption rate because of the processes and delays in availing part of the Exchequer in terms of counterpart funding on some occasions. We may seek to enhance this in future by being more forward-looking. When a project is conceptualised, we need to be aware of it early enough as a Government and avail resources for counterpart funding. We can then draw on the resources that are availed by development partners. When a Supplementary Budget like the one we are considering comes to the Floor of the House, there are always a few options. You either draw back in terms of expenditure, or you expand your deficit. We have made a unanimous decision as a country and as this House that the “borrowing hole” is already too deep such that we cannot conceptualise digging it further. Therefore, our only resort is to marginally reduce expenditure, so that we do not continue over-borrowing. As I wind up, in our consideration of the same yesterday, I stated some figures which I want to repeat for clarity. Last year's deficit in the printed estimates, and not the revised ones, was Ksh860 billion. Around or before the elections, Ksh200 billion was spent under Article 223 of the Constitution. When you spend money under Article 223 of the Constitution without a commensurate revenue stream for that expenditure, that expands the deficit. Therefore, for clarity's sake, the deficit that we have been dealing with in this financial year is Ksh1.1 trillion, which is much higher in terms of the deficit to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ratio. In the printed estimates, the ratio was 6.2. It is much higher when you add in the expenditure under Article 223 of the Constitution. We will be debating the Supplementary Appropriation Bill for the financial year that we are budgeting for later today. We have been able to reduce the deficit from Ksh1.1 trillion to Ksh718 billion in the next financial year. We have reduced the deficit to GDP ratio from 6.2 per cent to 5.7 per cent in the Supplementary Appropriation Bill. In the 2023/2024 Financial Year, we have further reduced it, even below the projections of the International Monetary The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Fund (IMF) and other Bretton Woods institutions. We have come down to only 4.4 per cent of our GDP. As we move to the medium-term, we project to be in the range of 3.6. per cent of our GDP. I assure Members that we are thoroughly playing our role on behalf of this House. We will scale down on borrowing because we cannot contemplate a situation where our country descends into more debt. So, I assure Members that part of the reason why we are tabling these Supplementary Estimates is because we would rather postpone some development instead of getting into a hazardous “borrowing hole”. Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would also like to thank Members. I request the very able Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, the man from Tharaka Nithi County, Hon. George Murugara, to second this Bill.

Hon. Sir George.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I always admire the work that the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee does, especially during these nascent years when we are trying to work towards ensuring that the Government gets money to deliver on its commitments. Congratulations to him. We seem to be progressing extremely well, and that is very important. As I second this Bill, allow me to say a few things. First and foremost, we are just about to come to the close of the financial year. The Government needs this money for recurrent expenses and a bit of development. I want to tell Government departments to absorb this money before the year ends because there is no point in making these appropriations only for the money not to be spent because of bureaucracies and other hindrances that may stop the Government departments from absorbing the money. Secondly, it is evident that the Government will not tolerate misappropriation of public funds. Those public funds are meant to serve the people of the Republic of Kenya. Therefore, I support His Excellency the President when he says that he will crack the whip on anyone who is caught trying to misappropriate or, in a way, misapply funds. That person will be dealt with immediately so that public confidence can be restored that their money is at all times secure. I have gone through the Bill and each of the State departments has its own allocation. Let the departments do what they are supposed to do with this public money under this law, so that we do not have any misgivings out there about how the money is being spent. That is because this is our money. With those remarks, I beg to second. Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

While on my feet, I wish to recognise the presence of Ndururumo Boys High School from Laikipia West Constituency, Laikipia County. I also wish to recognise the presence of Nurul Fatah Primary School form Kamukunji Constituency, Nairobi County. Hon. Members I will allow you to contribute. Hon. Farah Maalim, the Member for Dadaab Constituency.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, firstly, I congratulate the very able young legislators who are Chairs of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. They have done a fantastic job. I also congratulate a very old friend of mine, Hon. Mbadi, for giving a lot of professional insights into this debate. We are much more enriched. However, I disagree with the Budget and Appropriations Committee Chairperson on the issue of borrowing. Hon. Deputy Speaker, when you have an organisation or corporation that is insolvent, and that is not able to operate because it has a lot of debts, there are several ways to deal with The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

that. You can trade off that organisation, sell it and pay the debtors in many different ways and none of them will end up not getting paid their debts. The other option is to pump more money into the corporation, trade off certain divisions that are not profit-making, reconstruct the management of the organisation and make sure the company can progressively, over a period of time, begin making fewer losses, break even and begin making profits and finally become a very profitable organisation and declare dividends to the shareholders. The Republic of Kenya and the Government of Kenya is a corporation, and the people of Kenya are the shareholders. When we have a problem with debts, the situation should not be to take more debts. Take more debts, restructure the management of public affairs, put more infrastructure to enable businesses and different sectors of the economy to improve and thrive and progressively, you are going to make profits, and the country will be well. During the Great Depression, and the Americans were lining up for soups in the streets, what did Franklin Roosevelt do? He pumped money into the public sector, billions and billions of dollars, in what was called the “New Deal”. Today as we talk, Japan, which is one of the most powerful economies in the world, has a public debt of 263 per cent of its own GDP. We have a public debt of below 70 per cent of our GDP. It is actually 62.5 per cent. The US has an economy of GDP US$24 trillion. Today's total US debt is US$36 trillion, 170 per cent of its GDP.

When you borrow money even for your business and use it to marry a second or third wife, put up a big house in Karen, or enjoy yourselves, the consequence is bad because you will be auctioned. The same is also true for the Government. If there is a lot of corruption and stealing at the highest level of the Government itself, like what we have experienced for the last ten years under the Jubilee Government, the consequences become very bad.

If you are going to change that and have prudence in the management of public finances, we can go on an ambitious infrastructural development in this country, put up industries and do all sorts of things to ensure that we have an economy that is growing at a fast rate. A few years after we gained Independence, South Korea, a country I visited, and I had an opportunity of undertaking my Masters in Business Administration at one of their top universities, had only sea weed those days. It was the only resource that the country had. At the time of Independence, they got a very brilliant General called ‘Park Chun-Hee’, who took them through a coup but then came to Kenya, borrowed US$1 million from the first President of this country and used that money to travel the whole world, negotiated loans with all the developed world, sent 3,000 young South Koreans to go and study critical fields such as engineering and went back. Today, their GDP is UD$2.4 trillion while ours is US$100 billion. He did not steal. When you have a political class that is the richest and when you have the wealthiest person and the richest family is the President's family, the second richest is the second, and the third is the third richest and progressively like that, people would not have to invest in industries. They invest in politics. We have got 20 million acres of idle land, but most of it is grabbed by politically connected people. We have a farming community in this country that can turn things around. Take back that land and allocate it to five or one million farmers in Kenya. Each has a family of 10 or 8; and you will see how the economy will go over the roof. They will produce and produce big time. We had a coffee industry in which we used to produce 143,000 tonnes 30 years ago. Today, we produce less than 42,000 tonnes. Why? Because the political class became millers, middlemen, brokers and kept feeding on the poor Kenyans. While our coffee was sold for Ksh2,000 or Ksh3,000 outside, they were paid Ksh50 for a kilogramme. The coffee farmers have gone to hell because of none other than a Government that was there. If this country wants to develop; if we are serious as Members of Parliament who can legislate in this country and change things without any fear or favour with patriotism, we can change this country for the better in the shortest time possible time. This is if we do the right things. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

We can borrow heavily from outside but invest in the industrial undertakings in this country so that we can become an industrial country in the shortest time possible. But we take Euro Bond and steal it, take another bond, borrow from commercial banks because these are the only people who give kickbacks and put up white elephant projects like the Standard Gauge Railway because there is money that will be given from that. We have a serious problem. Our problem is not because the citizens are not hardworking; it is not because we do not have potential; it is because we have a corrupt, God-forsaken and damned political class. We are part of that class, for your information. Young man, the Member of Parliament for Kiharu, where the great Matiba came from, you have done an excellent job. For God's sake, go back to the hustler Government with the right programmes for Kenyans. We cannot be in a country like this for our tea farmers. We still have farms in the hands of foreigners and multi- nationals for the next 1,000 years, and we call ourselves independent. No! Take back those farms and allocate them to those who have the right - the area's indigenous people. The smallholders will do a good job. It is not right if you also go and participate in that by taking a farm because you are the president, a deputy president or God knows who you are.

Let him have one minute.

You think you can do that? That is wrong. If you do not do it, I promise you today that I will run for the presidency in 2027. That is if this Government does not become a serious hustler Government. I will campaign on what I am campaigning. I am going to win, and your Government will lose.

What you have to do is to become a serious hustler Government and address the areas I am talking about. Give back tea farms to indigenous Kalenjins, the poor people whose pieces of land have been taken over. Do not look at the relationship we will have with the British or the Americans or whatever it is. They came and took our land without permission. We want it back now. We can produce and get more money. Listen to me carefully. They have a whole chain. Importers and exporters are the same companies. They have what they call resellers.

Your point has been made, Hon. Farah. Thank you. You have made your point.

Give me one minute.

Okay, half a minute.

(Daadab, WDM)

The Member of Parliament for Bonchari, Hon. Charles Onchoke.

Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, you will get a right of response at the end. If we try not to talk for too long, other Members will have an opportunity to contribute. This is an important matter.

On a point of order.

What is your point of order, Hon. Kangogo Bowen?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, you know I will seek to be Hon. Farah Maalim’s running mate if he, by any chance, seeks the presidency of this country.

The Supplementary Appropriations Bill is very important. Many of these Members have come here this morning to contribute and discuss. Could I be in order if I seek to reduce the contribution time from ten minutes to five? That is so that we give each one of us a chance to talk.

That is a good point. But, then, we should have moved that Motion earlier. We can do it as good practice. Hon. Charles Onchoke, please proceed. I do not want to exercise my discretion. I want to see to that only if Members fail to self-regulate. The Member of Parliament for Bonchari.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to contribute to this Bill and thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for his excellent presentation on this matter of the Supplementary Budget.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am being intimidated. I seek your protection. It is true that what you see in Government accounting or the numbers we are treated to is largely inaccurate. The Chairman has spoken to that. This has gone on for many years. I say this out of experience, having worked at the National Treasury. Many MDAs are understating some revenue lines. That can also go to the expenditure side where we have a situation where accounting is not accurate and you do not get accurate information on what goes into debt repayment. The debt is not properly accounted for. We are not sure whether the numbers we talk about are accurate. It may well be that the country is at a serious debt level.

As we are discussing this and going forward, it will be very important that the National Treasury and all MDAs improve their financial management and record keeping. The unrealistic projections will affect how we manage our affairs in the country. If it is not realistic, there will be revenues falling short or expenditures shooting away from what the statements and numbers approved by Parliament indicate. If not properly accounted for, pending bills will be a problem as they are now. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

One other thing we see going on in Government is the efficiency or lack of it in managing public finances. You get many stories and hear conversations about wastage, pilferage and haemorrhage of the resources that we collect. We want to come to a level or situation where all these are taken care of. The leaks should be sealed so that what is meant for this country comes in, is accounted for and used for the intended purpose. Whereas there might have been problems in the past, let that not be an excuse, scarecrow or some bogeyman for us not to focus on what is happening. We should take note of what happened in the past and be vigilant about what is happening so that we break away from the bad history and play our oversight role so that Kenyans can get value for money collected from taxes.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Hon. Osoro is harassing me. One other thing that is happening in Bonchari can be for the whole country. Healthcare is a problem. Not a single day goes without somebody calling from Bonchari over an unpaid medical bill. The National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) is not working. No public hospital is working, at least, where I come from. I do not know about the rest of the country. Education is a big problem. Teachers are not paid. Money that is supposed to go to schools is yet to go in good time. Several schools in Bonchari complain they are yet to receive their money from the Ministry of Education. We should take cognisance of these critical healthcare and education sectors as we discuss these matters. They should be resourced appropriately, and money released and disbursed in good time to serve our people and students to have a country moving towards economic development and growth.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

The Member for Moiben, Hon. Phyllis Bartoo, you may proceed. Hon. Members, as I said, let us keep it short so that Members can contribute. For the Members who have already contributed, kindly pull-out your cards so that you can give others an opportunity.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Before, I came to Parliament, I was a teacher and so, I know how to keep time. On behalf of the residents of Moiben Constituency, I rise to support the Motion by the Chairperson. As much as I support this, I hope Kenyans will feel the impact of the taxes we are paying in our constituencies. We hope that good strategies will be put in place to ensure a fair distribution of development in the country. For example, Moiben is a farming constituency. We hope those farmers will get support through capacity building and in their farming activities to increase production and feed the nation. Our society is still unequal. For instance, some parts of Moiben have impassable roads. We have issues with electricity connectivity. My constituents are still using the analogue means to light their homes. In our language, we call it ‘ tamambul’ . We hope that they are going to get electricity connectivity in this dispensation. Education is still a problem in my constituency. That is why I support the Government of the day in this House because I know it will change the situation in my constituency and the entire country. Therefore, I hope the Government will put in place very serious structures to avert corruption so that taxes can go to building the nation.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am receiving very many lessons from around me. I do not know which one to take.

Proceed.

We hope that the Government is going to use these taxes prudently to ensure development, not in just in one constituency, but across all constituencies.

The Equalisation Bill was tabled here yesterday. If you look at the Equalisation Bill, you will realise that some places are far apart with regard to development and yet, we all belong to Kenya. We find ourselves in this situation because of the unequal distribution of resources since time immemorial. A good example is Moiben Constituency which has yet to be captured in this Equalisation Fund and yet, we still have impassable roads. Our classrooms are still made of mud and are without electricity or water and yet, we are all Kenyans living in Kenya. As we tax Kenyans, let the money be used or distributed equally so that everyone gets a share of the cake.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Members, the interest in this is wide spread. If it is by the leave of the House, we have only 5 minutes for every speaker. Hon. Omboko Milemba.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Now that you have put a question on that Motion, I will have less time to speak to this. Let me begin by thanking you and the Hon. Members. This Budget season, we have seen a lot of very high-quality debate in the House. I thank the Members for that. Supplementary Budget II is a way of cleaning up monies that were not used within a financial year and reallocating them within the law and the Constitution as required by the Public Finance Management Act and the laws that govern the budget processes. I laud the Budget and Appropriation Committee Chairperson for doing good work and explaining what those monies are all about. One, it is true that budgets are estimates and, therefore, they cannot be exact. As a result, at the end of each financial year, we have these appropriations to mop up the other funds. I am specific about the A-in-A monies, which most of the MDAs do not fully disclose. Corruption begins here. MDAs do not declare the full amounts they can absorb for a long time. They wait until the Government has given them funds throughout the year to declare the A-in-A so that they can spend them. You will notice that there are many workshops and easy spending for all the MDAs between now and the end of the month. This needs to be fixed. Parliament has to control this so that we give the correct estimates for what is collected by MDAs as A-in-A. Two projects co-funded with foreign aid have been punished. Currently, we have approximately Ksh700 billion borrowed from foreigners, which is attached to support by the Exchequer. We have not given our part of the deal. Therefore, we are being surcharged for not absorbing those loans while, at the same time, we are not using the loans. We have money out there that the Government committed to giving to but has yet to. The Budget and Appropriation Committee must take care of this. They should identify those ministries that cannot absorb their monies even after we have already signed the deals for the loans or for the foreigners to give us a part of their bargain. If anything, some of them are dangerously done for kickbacks and so, getting the loan earlier than the time we are ready to spend.

Finally, I would like to add to what you talked about earlier. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who was an extraordinary President of America between 1933 and 1939, having ruled longer than any President, introduced the three "Rs". The first "R" was relief for the unemployed and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

the poor. Our current Government is keen on relief for the poor and unemployed. Yesterday was about how we can create more employment opportunities, and that is why I was happy with you when you said we should give them a chance. He also introduced relief for the elderly, which was included in the budget. We are on the right track. The last "R" was the relief and support for the farmers, which is what this Government is doing. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was able to turn around the economy of America at a time when there was “The Great Depression.”

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Member for Alego Usonga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.3 of 2023). I want to make the following observations. One, even though this House, through the Departmental Committees, appropriate resources to MDAs, we have observed that the House does not engage in proper oversight and implementation of those budgets. This is why many MDAs have not begun implementing development projects towards the end of the financial year. This is why, at the end, these supplementary budgets reallocate resources because they have not been spent. I urge this House to follow up on the resources allocated to ensure the projects are being implemented on the ground.

Secondly, there is a continuous over-estimation of revenue projections. The National Treasury says they will collect Ksh2.5 trillion or Ksh1.5 trillion each year and yet, we hardly achieve those targets. It is time, as a House, we insisted on realistic revenue projections that will be achieved. It is not rocket science. This is something which we can do. We know what KRA is doing and the capacity of our economy. Therefore, we should never allow figures to be brought before this House that will not be realised. This affects budget implementation. When you say you are going to collect a certain amount of money and fail to do so, it means that you will be unable to fulfil the promises for projects that you made to the people during public participation.

Thirdly, we have noted that there is continuous misuse of Article 223. This House is investigating the misuse of this Article. I know that there are Committees that are investigating the usage of this Article in the previous regime, and they will present those reports in this House. Even though this is ongoing, the Government is still misusing this Article, which we should never allow as a House. Whatever the justification is, it is not appropriate for this House to allow Government to spend money that is not budgeted for unless it is a serious emergency. The resources that are used in this budget under Article 223 do not make sense. As a House, let us be strict and insist that we implement the budget as approved.

The third observation has to do with the absorption of donor-funded development projects. This is a crisis, and from my previous background in the banking sector, donor-funded projects do not move fast because of the involvement of the donors. When a donor gives resources for a project, they want to participate in the procurement process and ensure they use their own companies in the implementation. They also regulate how resources flow, which affects development projects. In my constituency, a project that is being funded by World Bank and has dragged for years beyond the period the project was supposed to last. Each year, the Government has to return to the donor to request an extension of the project period. Those projects delay purely due to the donor's misbehaviour. If we rely on donors to support our projects through loans, then we need to ask our technocrats in the National Treasury to define the procedures that should be used to fast-track those projects. Otherwise, we will have huge development allocations from donors, which we will never spend and will hurt our economy's performance.

I thank you, Hon Temporary Speaker, and my able and competent Chairman, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, for a wonderful presentation of this Report. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Bowen Kangogo.

Thank you, Hon Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill. As the Budget and Appropriations Committee Chair has said, this is a realignment from the previous Supplementary Budget. There is a lot required, especially in the education sector. There is very little disbursement, especially on the capitation of our primary and secondary schools. With the passing of this Supplementary Appropriation Bill, we will help our schools which are struggling with liquidation. There are a lot of pending bills which this Government engaged many contractors on different projects. With the passing of this Appropriation Bill, those people, some of whom have taken loans, are going to be paid for the work they have done. Let me talk about donor-funded projects. As Hon. Atandi has said, most donor-funded projects come with conditions. I am the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Blue Economy, and I have noticed that many of the stalled water projects are donor-funded. Those projects come with the condition that the contractor must be from the donor country. For instance, we have a case of Italian Corporation projects that have stalled because they are seeking Italian contractors to work on those projects. It is not possible for them to operate and work on projects from Rome. Before the ministries engage in massive projects like the dams, they must acquire the land. You will find that the contractor has an active contract and is supposed to move to the site without the land acquisition. This delays the entire process. The Government is paying for consultancy at a higher amount than the project itself. I ask the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to look into this because there is no way half of the money allocated to a project can go to consultancy. The Government has too many engineers in this country but the amount of money given out for consultancy is more than what is required to develop those projects. Hon. Temporary Speaker, what is the role of the reports from the Public Accounts Committee vis-a-vis the budget-making process? The PAC has tabled very many reports here that are showing misappropriation of funds in our ministries, departments and agencies (MDAs). However, during the budget-making process, such reports are not factored in to make sure that MDAs that have misappropriated money should have their budgets reduced to equate what the report is stating. We agree that we cannot continue borrowing, but if there is need to, let us borrow and use it for the specific projects which the money is meant for to avoid cases where borrowed money gets lost without any tangible project. I support. Thank you.

Hon. Bady, Member for Changamwe.

Mheshimiwa Spika wa Muda, mimi ni Mjumbe wa Jomvu. Eneo Bunge la Jomvu limetengwa kutoka Eneo Bunge la Changamwe. Jomvu ilipozinduliwa 2013, nilikuwa Mbunge wa Eneo hilo. Kwa hivyo, mimi ni Mbunge wa kudumu wa Jomvu. Ninataka kuunga mkono Mswada huu na vile vile kumpongeza Mheshimiwa Ndindi Nyoro kwa kazi nzuri ambayo ameifanya. Mheshimiwa Spika wa Muda, ninachukua maneno yako uliyoyaongeea juu ya nchi ya Korea na zinginezo kwa maanani. Maneno yako ni ya ukweli kwa sababu, juzi tulizuru nchi ya Korea na tulijifunza mengi. Kwa mfano, ndani ya Seoul, kuna daraja 32 kwenye Riva. Tuliwaona kuwa watu wa maendeleo sana. Tunapoangalia yale yanayotendeka kwenye nchi zingine, inatupea matumaini na matarajio kwamba tunapopata na kuweka pesa tunayopewa, inapaswa kuwa kwenye miradi ambayo imetengewa na wala isitumike kwa ufisadi. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Mwezi huu 30th June 2023, ndio mwisho wa kugawa pesa tulizotengewa kupitia kwa Bajeti ya Ziada ama Supplementary Budget . Na vile wenzetu walivyosema, ni vyema hizi pesa zitumike vizuri vile ilivyopangiwa kwenye Bajeti. Leo nitazungumzia Eneo la Jomvu. Kuna mahali panaitwa Jomvu Madafuni ambapo barabara ilitengenezwa chini ya Project AY09 . Hiyo barabara, inatoka Baroda na kutokea Madafuni. Pale pana kipande cha barabara takriban mita 800 pekee. Makamu wa Rais, Mhe. Gachagua alipokuja kuzindua mradi pale Bonje, alizungushwa mpaka Changamwe, kilomita tano ilhali angepitia barabara iliyokuwa takriban mita 800 kufika alipokuwa akielekea kufungua mradi. Kuna baadhi ya watu Serikalini ambao hawakutaka Makamu wa Rais aone upungufu wao. Uzuri ni kuwa niliyasema haya mbele yake. Nilimueleza kwa nini alizungushwa. Barabara ambayo angefaa apitie ilikuwa mbovu. Kwenye hiyo barabara pia, pamefanyika maandamano na watu wangu wamebaki wakilia pale siku nyingi. Ninasema haya ili pindi tu pesa zinapopatikana, zisifanyiwe ubadhirifu bali tu za miradi inayostahili. Moja ya miradi inayostahili kumaliziwa pindi tu Bajeti ya ziada itakapomalizika ni Barabara ya Jomvu-Madafuni. Ninasema haya kwa sababu huo mradi pia umetengewa pesa kutoka African Development Bank na European Union. Lakini leo hii, zimevujwa na bado baadhi ya watu wanadai malipo yao. Mwenyezi Mungu akinijalia, siku ya Jumanne, nitaleta Petition yao Bungeni kwa sababu kuna watu kule ambao waliondolewa bila kulipwa na pesa yenye iliyoko na tunahofia hii pesa itakapopatikana, itatumika kwa njia isiyofaa. Ufisadi katika nchi ya Kenya umekithiri sana. Kuna kampuni inayoitwa Synergy Gases ambayo imejadiliana na Serikali. Mwenye Kampuni akaiambia Serikali kuwa atawapunguzia milioni hamsini. Sijawaiona kampuni za kibinafsi zikisamehe Serikali ijapo hii iliyoweka hiyo mikakati na National Land Commission (NLC) na Kenya National Highway Authority(KeNHA). Mhe. Ndindi Nyoro amefanya kazi nzuri na ninaomba Serikali kuwa pesa zitakapopatikana, ziwekwe kwenye miradi. Vile vile, ninampongeza Mwenye Kiti kwa kazi nzuri. Umetuonyesha tajriba kwenye Bajeti hii ya Kenya. Asante Mhe. Spika wa Muda na Mungu aibariki hii nchi.

Member for Kilifi North.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I stand to support the Appropriations Bill. In supporting it, when I was in the Opposition with my brother, Hon. Mbadi, we used to be very critical of Article 223 of the Constitution and why it should not be used by governments. We always felt that it propelled corruption and that it was the wrong way to manage a government and its finances. This is because, you are giving an opportunity to people to spend money as they want without regard to the laws passed in this Parliament. I totally agree that it is the wrong way to do things, but coming to this Supplementary Appropriations Bill that we are doing today, it is necessary we clear the issue of Article 223 of the Constitution under this financial year. I urge the implementers of the government’s budgets that while we are now doing Supplementary II, in future, we do want it because Article 223 of the Constitution is abused. We do not want the abuse to go on in government offices because of that. There is a lady called Marjorie Oludhe Macgoye who wrote a book called Coming to

. In that book, she says that a birth is a very difficult process. This is because, before birth, there has to be a pregnancy; that pregnancy at times, gets complicated; sometimes, you lose hope; and sometimes, things do not… However, the most important thing that you look forward to is a child being born. Coming to birth is a process. This country is coming to birth but the process will be painful, difficult, will go under the hills and valleys and through all The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

those places. I am optimistic that with this Budget that my friend, Ndindi Nyoro, is midwifing including our dear brother, Hon. Kuria, in the Finance Bill, this 13th Parliament, in my view, will be counted as one that helped this country to come to birth. As a country and a Parliament, I want us to look forward to better days. Fuel in the pumps will be high and many other things will be difficult but we need to look at the bigger picture – the long-term results. Why are we doing this? It is because the long-term would be better than the short-term. The short-term is that it would be painful but the long-term would be termed gainful, and this country needs to look into that. We are making reductions and additions in the Appropriations Bill that we are dealing with. However, as we do this from the podium of this Parliament, I want to tell all the Government officials who have been given the responsibility to spend Government money wisely for the benefit of the country to do so prudently. I want to ask Cabinet Secretaries and Principal Secretaries whose docket this money will be put in, not to look at this money as theirs, their families’, their mothers,’ but rather for the people of Kenya. The money must be spent prudently and properly for the growth and development of this country. As a House, we have the oversight responsibility. I would like the Committee chaired by Hon. John Mbadi to call and put them to task. We want greater accountability from Cabinet Secretaries and Principal Secretaries so that at the end of it, Kenya is proud because we have a team that can move this country forward. He is taking bold and sometimes dangerous steps. The end game is that this country must rise and come back in a fashion that everybody will be happy.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would like to ask Members here to cooperate with the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee so that we pass this Bill and the other ones. We will then sit down and ensure that all of us work and support this Government to achieve its ultimate goal which is taking this country to the next level, and ensuring the hustlers are proud because we would have taken them from the bottom to the higher end. This is what we want to achieve in this Budget-making process.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Member for Kacheliba, Hon. Lotee.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill. The reason for having supplementary budgets is trying to get a bearing from the budgets that have been done before. We collect and redirect resources to the most appropriate areas. As a House, we sit to look at budgets, approve them and allow the Executive to manage them in a proper manner. Sometimes, it becomes very saddening that when we sit here, present and approve our budgets, the Executive sits and does nothing, apart from running from one venue to another one with the tag of development. They only come to this House at the end of the financial year to ask for a Supplementary Budget.

It is sad. If you look at every government office, as we come to the end of the financial year, this is the time you hear ministries and State departments asking for Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) to be extended beyond the period that it is supposed to. Why do we ask to open IFMIS at this point? This is the time there is a lot of traffic in the IFMIS in this country. For a whole year, most of the officials from the Executive run from one venue to the other, without knowing that we have given them this Budget for them to deliver to Kenyans. Most of the expenditures that come at the tail end of the year are not for development. Most of them print t-shirts and travel from one venue to another in the name of workshops at the expense of the development that these budgets are supposed to do. Most of them are afraid of returning the monies and so, they want to show that they can spend it. They put these monies in things that will not develop this country.

As we look through Supplementary Appropriation Bills in future, we need to look at them in a manner that we see that resources are directed to the things that will help this country The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

to move forward but not the officials living very comfortably. We are also aware that this country is managed by the Executive wing through the principal secretaries down to the directors. It is sad because resources are always directed most of the time to areas where these officials come from. People of Kacheliba who do not have many people sitting in offices do not get resources, despite the fact that I sit here as a Member of Parliament and approve this appropriation. When it is taken to those offices, they do not know Kacheliba and there is no person from Kacheliba who sits there to influence some resources to go there. Can these resources be shared equitably across the country and not from the angle of where one comes from? We will talk about this issue because there are areas that are continually being marginalised, despite passing the budgets because they do not have people sitting in big offices.

Lastly, there are many projects that the Government has started. Surprisingly, if you go to our highways, for example, they are well done. Immediately, they start to wear out, nobody tries to allocate resources. I do not know if it is an African disease. There are no resources which are appropriated to maintain already made projects. I laud the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the budgets that have been put forth. Let us stop initiating new projects, if we are unable to finish the ones we started and allocate resources to maintain the projects that have been done. It is sad that we have a good road and when there is a pothole, we want to construct a new one, and yet we cannot maintain the one that we did before.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support this Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, first of all, I thank the Members who are present because we know the time we left the Chamber last night. I know this Bill has elicited a lot of interests. I am looking at the Order Paper. I can see that the next Bill is also on money and Budget. I think the Members who are present in the House want to contribute because there is a lot of interest. However, it talks to the same thing. I am standing under Standing Order 95(1) to ask that the Mover be called upon to reply so that we move to the next Bill. The other Members will be given the opportunity to contribute to this Bill in the next Order. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I submit.

Put the Question.

Hon. Member, your point is taken. The Speaker will act accordingly. Let us hear from Hon. Mbadi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I do not want to say much on this Bill. Hon. Ndindi Nyoro is the sixth Chairperson of this Committee, both the current Budget and Appropriations Committee and predecessor Committee. The first one was Hon. Martin Ogindo, then we came to Hon. Elias Mbau, Hon. Mutava Musyimi, Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah, Hon. Kanini Kega and now we have Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. Hon. Ndindi Nyoro is coming out as a very good Member of this Committee. He explains a lot to Members to understand what is contained in the Budget Estimates. Firstly, Public Accounts Committee (PAC) has a responsibility. As the Chairperson of that Committee, I give my guarantee to this House that by mid-July, which is next month, you will receive the first Report from our Committee of the Financial Year 2020/2021. We intend to complete the Financial Year 2021/2022 by October this year, so that from next year, February, we will be dealing with those accounts which were presided over by the current principal secretaries. Therefore, that will enhance accountability. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I agree with the Chairperson that certain expenditure under Recurrent are capital in nature. Education is one of them. I said before that we should consider relooking at education as a capital expenditure. There is no investment which is as important as education. I want the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to be looking at the luxury lines, all the time when we are making the Budget. They are four: domestic travels, foreign travels, hospitality, fuel and maintenance. This is where we have a lot of wastage. I want to appeal to this House and the country at large that we need to consider what is happening in the counties. There is overemployment and you can find a new governor coming in place and hiring drivers yet the drivers from the previous regime are earning a salary and do not have vehicles to drive. The role of a driver is to drive a vehicle. So, if a driver earns a salary without being assigned a vehicle, honestly, this is serious wastage. I do not know what kind of fear they have against drivers of the previous regime. I wonder whether these drivers want to kill them and, in the process, also kill themselves. As I conclude, we need to employ prudent, efficient and effective utilisation or application of resources to realise economies in use. I am disturbed by the rise of corruption cases yet, in the last election, when we were campaigning, both sides were in agreement on one thing. That, this country is at a difficult period in history in terms of debt repayment and payment of Government services. We agreed to do something on wastages and probably we disagreed on how to actualise the same. The fight against corruption must be prioritised. We are seeing financing of luxuries and it is bringing this country down. We are financing luxuries of bloated governments. There is no need to enlarge the size of this Government any further. We have too much Government in place both at the national and the county levels. Kenyans are overrepresented and feel overburdened by Government. A very heavy Government is weighing on our people and sinking this economy. We need to reduce the size of Government not by retrenching people but by not creating additional offices. They are unnecessary wastage of resources. Lastly, I want to be very clear because we have been seeing the Cabinet Secretary for Trade who comes from Hon. Kagombe’s area trotting everywhere. Honestly, I do not think he represents this country, if what he says locally causes a lot…

Hon. Mogaka, Member for West Mugirango.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am honoured to also support the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill. Before I do so, permit me to also join my colleagues in thanking the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee as well as the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning for navigating this country and the House to where we are today. This is the very first Finance Bill for this Government and it has attracted unprecedented interest and educated the entire population on the budget-making process. It is important for the Government to close the remaining aspects of the previous budget so that on 1st July we start on a new slate of the 2023/2024 Budget which will be a game changer. It is upon this House to make sure the Executive implements projects as budgeted. I want to ask Members that we oversee the Executive to ensure that Kenyans get value for their budget. I am particularly excited about this Budget and under Article 27 of the Constitution, every Kenyan should be treated equally. The discomfort we were having about the 8 per cent VAT was very discriminatory because the users of petroleum products were the only ones paying 8 per cent VAT when the rest of Kenyans like mama mbogas who buy kiberiti were paying 16 per cent VAT. The amendment which we made yesterday equalised all Kenyans. So, under the VAT Act every Kenyan is treated equally and pays equal VAT irrespective of what product they purchase. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I want to encourage the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, to be hands on and ensure completion of infrastructural projects. I want to see the stalled projects in my constituency like Nyaisa Secondary school, Nyansabakwa Secondary School, Nyatentemi Secondary School and Senator Kebaso Secondary School being completed so that my constituents can enjoy value for the taxes they pay. I support this Bill and promise Kenyans that as a Member of Parliament I will oversee and ensure very soon Kenya joins Singapore and South Korea as one of the most developed countries. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support.

Hon. Wanyonyi, Member for Kwanza.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity. From the outset, I support the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill. From my own observations, I have seen that in this country we lack discipline and this is getting out of hand. Our discipline is not where we expect it to be. Resources are also misplaced and misused. This House has a duty, and that is why we have cabinet secretaries coming here to answer questions. As representatives of the people, we want them to be answerable because distribution of resources is misplaced. I want to agree with what Hon. Mbadi said about overemployment of people in some organisations. We have to generate our own income and some years back I think Koreans came to this country to borrow money during the time of the late Mzee Jomo Kenyatta. Today, I have heard our debt is almost at 62 per cent. Why? This is because people are not doing what they are supposed to. Our country has enough resources. Although there is climate change, we should produce our own food. You can imagine, due to drought, we imported food from Egypt. We have eight rivers in the Lake Basin region for irrigation while Egypt has only one yet we import rice from there. I have worked in the Lake Basin region and I can tell you we have enough resources. That area alone should feed this country and we get surplus to export. Hon. Temporary Speaker, can you imagine us importing rice from Egypt, a country that has only one river, yet we have the Lake Basin here! The Lake Basin has eight rivers which I can name as you all know. With that, we could be able to do irrigation in that area but we are not able to do that because people have taken it lightly. We just have to work as Kenyans. We have enough resources here and very good climatic change. Therefore, as a matter of discipline, we should feed ourselves, export and do other things for our country. Last, but not least, imagine us having a debt of 6.5 per cent just because of corruption. We should do something about this so that we direct the resources to the right place. Misdirecting the resources is the reason we are having problems and debts of up to 62 per cent. That is unbelievable but that is what you have been told. I support this Appropriation Bill. Further, I hope that Kenyans, for only this one, will be disciplined and direct our country so that we too export. For example, if you look at tourism, it is going down compared to what we had in the past. We do not get enough tourists in this country now. Even when they come, they are taken to places that they are not supposed to be taken to and as a result they do not come back. I support, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order.

What is your point of order, Hon. Kagombe?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the last two weeks we have been discussing Budget, Appropriations and other Bills. We have properly The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

executed a lot of issues on the Floor. The next Motion is still about what we have just discussed. I know Members have expressed interest.

Hold on, Hon. Okello. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am requesting that you call upon the Mover to reply so that we move to the next order, which is the same. At that point we will get Members to address their issues.

Order, Hon. Kagombe! Your point is made.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to laud all the Members who have contributed and assure them that I was taking notes. I have noted points from Hon. Wanyonyi, Hon. Mogaka, Hon. Mbadi, Hon. Lotee, Hon. Owen Baya, Hon. Bady Twalib, Hon. Kangogo (Chairman, Blue Economy and Irrigation), Hon. Samuel Atandi (Committee Member, BAC), Hon. Omboko Milemba, Hon. Bartoo, Hon. Onchoke who is also very experienced in these matters and yourself, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I will highlight a few things.

I request that Members consult in low tones. I want to be very brief. It is important to note the issues that we have had because they enrich the debate. Today, we have had very quality debate on this matter especially across the spectrum of the entire economy. Some of the issues that I said before about A-in-A have been highlighted by the Members who have taken part in the debate. I want to bring up one matter that I heard from Hon. Mbadi on the issue of having a bloated Government. I agree 100 per cent with Hon. Mbadi. It is important for Members to listen to what we did. In the Budget of 2023/2024, we never approved any increment in personal emoluments or pay for additional staff of Government except for a few areas. We only approved additional staff in Teachers Service Commission (TSC), Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC) and trainers of Technical and Vocational Education and Training institutions (TVETs). We made it very difficult for any MDAs to add staff. This is because, the Government of Kenya has more staff than we need. What we need to do is reallocation. In one constituency you get there is a Youth officer, Uwezo Fund officer, Women Fund officer and Gender officer. There is duplication of roles of like nine government officers serving in a single sub-county; roles that could generally be done by just a few staff. What we may need to do in future is to optimise on the resources that we already have other than adding more. Lastly, allow me to go back to your topic. You got the entire 10 minutes and we learnt a lot from it. As I reply, I will use the benefit that I got from your contributions. I agree with you on many aspects. However, I want to give you reasons as to why we are not committed to borrowing further. For example, the case that you cited about Japan; Japan has over 250 per cent debt to GDP ratio or a percentage of debt with regard to GDP but it borrows very cheaply. At some point the 10-year bond of the Japanese Government was on negative territories. Just imagine that they borrow money but pay less. Secondly, Japan is a net lender. As much as we read that Japan has a lot of debt, it is also the number one external creditor to the United States of America (USA) Government. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

There is also the trap of over borrowing where Japan has over borrowed. Further, the interest rates are low and most of this debt is of course domestic. However, if you look at the books of the Japanese economy, they have had no real growth since 1994. For 30 years, their real GDP has remained at US$4.4 trillion. We do not want to get into that trap where you do not even have inflation but deflation. When a country starts having deflation, it is a worse territory than inflation because you tell the consumers to postpone their spending. When this happens generally that means that production goes lower. I do not think Kenya will be very safe. Lastly, is the example you cited about the USA. I want to say that they almost had a shut down the other day. They wanted to increase the debt which they succeed, but 70 per cent of the USA debt portfolio is internal, therefore, they are able to manage. Also, the greenback is their currency, a luxury that we do not have. With those many remarks, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply.

I do not think there is any need to ring the Bell. Order, Hon. Members, we have Quorum.

THE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS ADDITIONAL ALLOCATION BILL (National Assembly Bill No.23 of 2023)

Let us have Hon. Ndindi.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.23 of 2023) be now read a Second Time.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, as the title of the Bill suggests, this is the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill. I want you to take note of that because I do not wish to take too much time moving this Bill, so that more time can be shared out amongst other Members.

This is a Bill on the Government’s additional allocation to county governments. These are monies over and above the Ksh385 billion that we are allocating as equitable share. Why do we give additional allocations to counties? Part of the reason we give additional monies to counties is that they are segmented in various areas. First, there are foreign-funded programmes, which are especially domiciled in agriculture. I can see the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock is here. If you look at that Bill, you will find that there are many loans, grants or foreign-funded programmes that go to counties because Kenya is largely an agricultural economy. These are monies that have to come to this House after emanating from the Senate, so that we give our final approval.

There are other elements. When devolution started, we realised that there were five counties that had no headquarters, Tharaka Nithi being one of them. Because of lack of structures to call county headquarters, the national Government felt that it would not be proper for us to commit the equitable share into building county headquarters. For example, in the same Bill, there are five counties that get money from the Government of Kenya as grants or additional revenue for building county headquarters. They have received funding for some time. Some of these county headquarters are at 90 per cent completion. We funded them with the anticipation that the monies allocated will be enough to complete construction.

There are other areas in terms of conditional grants. I can see that Members are already perusing the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, as well as the Bill itself, so The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

that they can understand what these additional monies that we are giving to our counties will accomplish.

As I come to the end of my contribution, I am elated with the kind of partnership that we are seeing between county governments and the national Government. One area that will really benefit Kenya’s economy is the partnership between the national Government and counties, in so far as building aggregation and industrial centres is concerned. The Government is allocating Ksh4.7 billion, and then counties will match it on a shilling per shilling basis, totalling to Ksh9.4 billion. These monies will go into building aggregation and industrial centres. With Kenya largely being a dominant agricultural economy, this will go a long way in harnessing prices for our farmers. When farming or agriculture is pegged on weather and seasons, farmers are unable to optimise the best prices. Once you have harvested tomatoes, for example, you do not have the luxury of keeping them to fetch better prices in future. That is the reason why post-harvest losses account for huge losses for farmers across the board. With regard to cereals, farmers register between 20 to 30 per cent post-harvest losses. The highest losses are experienced with regard to perishables. Losses incurred on fruits and vegetables go up to 50 per cent because some of these fruits are seasonal. When the fruits are in season, the market is flooded with over-supply yet demand remains the same. These aggregation centres will address that. They will have a cold room where farmers can keep their produce, so that we have a flat supply curve. Therefore, farmers will fetch reasonable and optimal prices for their produce.

I would like to inform the House that as we debate this Bill, you are free to debate on anything about counties. You do not just have to talk about additional revenue. You can debate on anything that concerns county governments. As Hon. GG Kagombe suggested, you can debate on anything about the Budget because this is also a budget-making process.

I request one of the Members who has served for many terms to second. This is his fifth term as a politician. He has great experience in how county governments operate because he served in the defunct municipal councils of the previous dispensation. This is the Member for Nakuru Town, the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining, Hon. David Gikaria. I ask him to second.

Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we have been told that we can discuss anything important. As I rise to second, the first thing that I wanted to agree with you on is with regard to the previous Motion that we have just dispensed with. It was about how our farmers are suffering. This is true. I was given a story of how in the last regime, a Cabinet Secretary would get investors and keep them waiting in different rooms, but because he also wanted to engage in the same business, he would move from one room to another until he got the best prices for his produce. That is when they would agree. I agree that if we take those proposals seriously, our farmers will be happy. I take this opportunity to also thank the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the good work that he and his team have done. I have been summoned before the Committee on several occasions. I admit that this Committee has pledged to listen to proposals from chairpersons of various committees, and they take our input into consideration when we make amendments while coming up with our budgets. I thank the Chairperson for the good work that he is doing. As it was said, as young as you are in only your second term in Parliament, you currently hold a senior position in a very important Committee. You and your Committee are doing a good job.

The Kenya Kwanza Government has been accused of wanting to kill devolution. It is very evident that from the few months that the Kenya Kwanza Government has been in power, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

it has portrayed the need for us to improve what counties are doing as per the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution on the responsibilities of county governments. At the same time, the onus is on county governments, particularly governors, to understand that they should not wait for monies from the national Government. As per the Constitution, we are supposed to allocate money to county governments. The Kenya Kwanza Government has improved on that, and we hope to continue increasing allocations to county governments in the years to come. At the same time, county governments have the responsibility to collect revenue in their own counties. It is sad when you go to a county and you find the county government just waiting for allocations from the national Government. There are a few counties that are doing well like my County, Nakuru. I want to thank my governor for her resilience in waiting for allocations from the National Treasury. Whatever the governor collects, she is able to use it for operations and maintenance of the county. At the same time, she negotiates with different financial institutions to enable her to pay salaries and other services. In Nakuru County, we have never had a problem of workers going on strike. It is important for counties to take responsibility for what they are supposed to collect as their resources. They have a tendency of cross border double taxation. For example, if you have an advertisement on your vehicle, once you cross from Nakuru County to Kericho County, you are required to pay some charges. Double taxation should be discouraged so that we continue encouraging more business people and investors to actualise their plans. The Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee properly explained why we are giving additional resources to counties. One of the fundamental issues that is key and is the backbone of this country is the foreign-funded programmes, particularly on agriculture. The former regime had negotiated for coolers that were brought but were not given to counties. I want to thank the Government for making a commitment that these coolers which were given through a fund by our partners have now found their way to various counties where they will be used. As the Chairman indicated, many of our farmers do not have the potential of maximising what they are supposed to get from their crops. Most of the perishables are destroyed through transportation because they are not transported in coolers. The provision of coolers to various counties will help farmers get enough yield and maximum income from their proceeds. The relationship and partnership between the national Government and the county governments is critical. Constantly, the Deputy President chairs a meeting between the national Government and Council of Governors where they discuss various issues related to the relationship between the national Government and county governments. If we can have a proper relationship between the national Government and county governments, this country will move forward. Let me touch a little about the Supplementary Budget. I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee led by Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. The National Treasury has a tendency of removing very important funds that are supposed to go towards addressing some key projects within various ministries. The Committee has stood firm and it has given back these monies to respective ministries. The National Treasury must realise that whatever is budgeted, itemised and approved by Parliament which has had an opportunity to ventilate on, should be respected. I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for what you have done. With those few remarks I second.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

What is your point of order, Hon. Bowen?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee had proposed that we reduce the time of publication of some Bills here from seven days to one day because of many other Bills which are supposed to be prosecuted. Many of the Members who are here, some of whom have sat here from morning up to now, are seeking to contribute to various Bills. Would I be in order to request that we reduce contributing time per Member from ten minutes to three minutes to enable many Members to speak to the many Bills?

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order Hon. (Dr) Gogo?

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. It is for the same reason that I was thrown out of this House yesterday. Parliament is not going to be turned into a voting machine. We need to expedite issues through debate by looking at the pros and cons of matters. The world is watching us. We will not just keep passing Bills. Additional monies that are allocated to counties is a very important matter and we are not going to have Members from the opposite side keep shutting down, and gagging Members. I belong to the House Rules and Procedures Committee. We are not going to have the rules and procedures just changed at will. I have been in this House in the last…

What is out of order?

What is out of order is that we are not going to have Members changing House rules and procedures at will to make it convenient for them.

Order, Hon. Gogo. I appreciate your concerns, but the reduction on the time the Members would want to be allocated is a matter that can only be done by leave of the House. The Chair has little to do on it and this is at the beginning of it. The Member has risen on that and I will put a question on it and if in the wisdom of the majority of the Members here feel they do not need three minutes but ten minutes, so be it. If you are going to need three minutes per Member of Parliament, then it can only be done by the leave of the House. They are not changing the rules, but that is how the rules are.

The House Rules are set by and large, when it comes to such things, by the Members themselves. I want you to understand the traditions. The only time it can get frivolous is when a matter is being debated and somebody rises and says the Mover be called upon to reply. Then, the Chair has got the wisdom to look at the Minority and Majority and decide if it is frivolous or not. But on the time needed by every Member of Parliament to deliberate on a Bill, is by the leave of the House. Let us proceed. Hon. Waluke.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me a chance to speak. Many of us like Hon. Gikaria and others came here early to constitute quorum. I concur with Hon. Gogo. There are Members who can just arrive and are given a chance but those who came earlier may sit here for a whole day. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to support the Bill and thank Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, and the Committee, for the time they have taken to come up with the Budget and Appropriations Bill. This country has a lot of potential if people can support agriculture. This country will move forward if the people of this country can support agriculture the way you put it earlier on. I urge Kenyans and the Members of this House to be together. Let us give space and time to this Government. We need to support it because it just came into power the other day. Let us give it a try and our total support. I know people are feeling pain due to the economy coming down. The economy of this country will stabilise within a few months or a year. Let us support people like Ndindi Nyoro and the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning who are steady in their duties.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, agriculture needs support. The Government should support the farmer. The economy of this country largely depends on farming, that is, coffee and tea farming. People have been crying of hunger. I believe that we are going to have a bumper harvest of maize this year, especially in areas we come from. We will not be crying of food shortage in another, maybe, two years. I thank the President for bringing fertiliser to the people of this country. As leaders, we are ready to make sure that we work together.

Hon. Mutunga of Tigania West.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriation Committee for the good work he has done. I also thank the President for guiding this Committee very well. I want to thank the Senate for presenting this Bill to us. Additional resources to counties is a good idea. This idea must be tagged to results. We know we have been having issues with several counties not delivering what they are supposed to deliver. Investment must be done appropriately. We must have results for the money that we give to counties.

During the previous Session of Parliament, we saw many investment conferences at county level inviting probable investors into counties to try to figure out what they can do with resources there. We have not seen those things happening this time. We caution counties to go that direction. Counties must also have clear plans of operation besides the County Integrated Development Plan (CIDP). They need to explore the resources they have so that they open up investments. One of the things that this Bill is bringing is support to investment in aggregation. Aggregation is important in view of what we have at county level and the kind of economic activities our people engage in. Most of them are farmers; small-holder farmers for that matter.

I would like to bring to the attention of counties that there is a Bill we passed in the last Parliament. It is the Warehouse Receipt System Act of 2019. This Act provides that people can have private or public warehouses where they can keep their wares and have receipts. The receipts can be used as security to acquire loans from banks. They need to explore utilisation of this law in those aggregation centres where we also have possibilities for industrial parks. Post-harvest losses in this country can go up to 40 per cent. This is about a half of what farmers have produced over the years. The fastest growing crop in this country will take three months.

I am sure I have not spent three minutes. I am sure you have taken my time. Those losses are as a result of fungal infestations. That can be contained through warehousing. The link between warehousing and receipting council is important so that they work together. Hon. Temporary Speaker, there are a few other issues that I wanted to bring out on the new big Budget. We sometimes have to borrow as a country.

Hon. Mutunga, you can have one additional minute. Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I am happy that the country is looking forward to compress the debt burden. As a Government, I am happy that we have started by assessing where we are and where we want to go. The fact that there has been reduction of borrowing from Ksh1.1 trillion to around Ksh700 billion is very important. We saw a situation of the last government wanting to move the debt percentage expressed as a percentage of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to absolute figures. If you put your debt at absolute figures, you cannot communicate to other countries because we do not use the same currency. Proportionate figures are important because we can communicate and know where we are.

Finally, counties need to clear their bills. We have many counties not clearing their bills. Many pending bills need to be cleared. We also need to look at the wage bill in relation to the investment in development. Counties were created for investment and not necessarily expenditure.

Hon. Abdisirat Khalif.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We are all aware that we are going through a serious credit crunch as a country. This is partly due to the fact that we have surpassed our debt ceiling. Hence, we cannot borrow competitively. I welcome the introduction of genuine and serious taxation measures that can help the Government to perform its obligations. However, we must cap wastage and use those scarce resources prudently. As we allocate more funds to counties, we must also introduce anti- corruption measures and serious austerity efforts to curb wastage. As a country, we are known for misusing public funds. Therefore, we need to use those little resources where they are most needed. We do not want a situation where we give more funds to counties and they fail to be accountable.

Hon. (Dr) Makali, followed by Dr Gogo. Proceed, Hon. (Dr) Makali.

On point of order.

What is your point of order?

My point of order is on Standing Order 1. We know the Chair exercises discretion over debates in the House. I came to the Chamber as number two, second to Hon. George Murugara, and I pressed the button. Up to now, I have not been given a chance to speak. We feel you need to exercise fairness. Thank you. My name is Justice Kemei, the Member of Parliament for Sigowet/Soin.

Order, Hon. Justice Kemei. To begin with, you are not the first on this list now. There are people ahead of you. Secondly, you have to understand that the Chair exercises discretion on a number of divides. A House is many shades of opinion. There is political parties, regions and gender. All those things are there. The Chair gives opportunity based on that, in his own wisdom. You will get an opportunity very soon. For God's sake, get close to the presiding Chair and request when you really want to raise such issues. Do not rise up there on point of order. How does it become a point of order based on Standing Order 1? Has a Member from eastern Kenya, and to be more precise south of eastern Kenya, contributed to this Motion this morning? No. Look at all those divides. And it is on the basis of that that the Speaker has to be very fair, and I promise you I will be very fair. Proceed, Hon. Makali.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to add my voice to the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill. This is a very important Bill. How I wish I had more time to talk about it but now that the House has resolved to have only three minutes for debate, I will go by that. This Bill allows the counties to get resources from the national Government and from development partners. It is important to note that most of the proposed activities under these resources are very critical to the county governments because there are activities which revolve around climate change, agricultural The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

value addition, issues of health, supporting county governments construct county headquarters, issues of industrial centres as proposed by the Kenya Kwanza Government and also some resources to be directed to the informal sector improvements. From my experience and interaction with these kinds of resources in the past, we have realised that we have some gaps and I just want to focus on some of the gaps so that we can help the process. The first one is this: We lack what we call a monitoring and evaluation framework between the two levels of government. The national Government pushes resources to the counties and once the counties get the resources, there is minimal follow-up from the national Government to find out whether the resources are being used for the intended purposes. I want to single out one of those items – support of the county governments to construct their headquarters. I have been in the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the last 11 years. I can assure you that we have been allocating money for those county headquarters for the last five years and, up to now, they have not been completed. We are not aware which levels they are in, what pending balances are there to be paid and what needs to be done to complete them. So, we continue pumping more money to them and I think that is an area we seriously need to look into as the National Assembly, and ensure that we monitor those resources so that we do not just release resources to the county governments and they do not help them. The other issue is that not all the monies go to all the counties. Some money will go to selected counties while others will go to all the counties. It is also important that if money is set for specific activities like climate change, the money should be directed to that activity because some counties have challenges of resources.

Please, give an additional half a minute to the Hon. Member. Proceed. An additional half a minute. Conclude.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, you know this is an area in which I have a lot of experience in. It becomes very difficult to debate in a few minutes. But let me just close by saying that it is important we make sure that we provide cash to the counties. The issue of liquidity and exchequer releases is a major challenge to the implementation progress in this country, and it is high time Kenya Kwanza Government improved in that area. I support, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. (Dr) Gogo.

I thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, and thank you also for the guidance you gave me this morning. I highly appreciate and rise to support this particular Motion that has been brought by the Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee. County Governments are an important component of our government structure as a country and it is important that they are well resourced so that they are able to discharge their duties. Any additional money that is given to the county governments will allow the nation to achieve food security because agriculture is a devolved function. But I want to implore the county governments that there are very many agricultural extension officers who have been well trained by our universities and colleges to do extension work. If this is done in a guided form by technocrats and people who are well versed in that area, I think we will have better production in our farms and achieve food security. So, I implore the county governments — if there are any monies they have taken for agricultural improvement of the food security situation — to kindly employ agricultural extension and education officers.

Number two, Early Childhood Education Centres (ECDs) are in a deplorable condition in most counties and any additional money that is given should be taken care of, especially if we target education at the earliest ages of our children. It is important that more money is given to our counties and monies that are targeting climate change should be directed to climate change because this will always remain a current issue. I want to go on record, as I support this matter, that Hon. Wangari, who is a member of the Speaker’s Panel, is a friend of mine and we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

have done very many positive things for our constituents. So, anybody like Hon. David Ochieng’ who wants to come in between Hon. Martha Wangari and I, to throw me out of the House, should be made to known that I am not his agemate.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Justice Keme followed by the Member of Parliament for Igembe Central. Where is the MP for Igembe Central? Okay, proceed Hon. Justice Kemei.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity you have given me. I want to say that I am obliged by the direction that you have given on my previous point of intervention. I did that because I came quite early so that I could contribute to the previous Motion because I had very deep interest in it. However, let me just make my contribution on the Bill that is being debated at the moment. I want to join my colleagues in the National Assembly to thank Hon. Ndindi Nyoro and Hon. Kimani Kuria. We must appreciate the stewardship of both the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Committee on Finance and National Planning. As we do that, Mheshimiwa Ndindi Nyoro, the philosophy and methodology are good. But, please, look into the implementation of the budgets you have done. That is where we have the biggest problem in this country.

Coming to this Bill, I support the allocation of additional funds to county governments. The 2010 Constitution was about three things - democracy, devolution and development. While we support devolution and additional revenue to county governments, we must also question the use of those monies going to county governments. We must also question why the revenues in county governments are coming down. We would have expected county governments to use the money that comes from the national Government, and in addition rely on local revenues. Secondly, I agree entirely with the Budget and Appropriations Committee on the increase on the elements of monies going to agriculture. This country still remains agricultural, but my worry is that, as much as we have added money to county governments for agricultural production and productivity, we are still way behind the Maputo Declaration which demands that we allocate 10 per cent of our Budget to the agricultural sector. The allocations going to agriculture in the county governments and the national Government are still far below the 10 per cent we signed in the Treaty. In addition, the use of those resources in the county government, cannot go on well if extension officers are not there. At the moment, you can see there is no increase in productivity and production because county governments do not have extension workers. Finally, and this applies to…

Half a minute for Hon. Justice Kemei

Hon. Speaker, finally to Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, these budgets will be meaningless unless we fight mismanagement in state corporations and in government agencies. Unless we deal with issues of inefficiencies and staffing, those budgets will be useless. So, I support and once more say thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute, and for the additional one minute. Thank you.

Member for Igembe Central.

(Igembe Central, JP)

(Hon. Farah Maalim)

(Kisii County, WDM)

(Hon. Farah Maalim)

(Lagdera, ODM)

Hon. Murugara, are you speaking first? I thought I had given the chance to the Women Representative for Bomet County and then you will follow. Hon. Toto, kindly take the Floor; or you want to donate your chance to Hon. Murugara?

(Bomet County, UDA)

(Hon. Farah Maalim)

(Tharaka, UDA)

(Hon. Farah Maalim)

(Tharaka, UDA)

Hon. Farah Maalim): Hon. Mizighi.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Farah Maalim): What is your point of order, Hon. Haika?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the microphone is not working.

Hon. Farah Maalim): It is.

It is not working. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I know my voice is very loud. When I was not heard, I understood that the microphone was not working. What we are discussing has a time limit. We cannot do an exercise in futility. By the end of the financial year, we ought to have finished with this Bill.

Hon. Farah Maalim): Order, Hon. Haika.

I rise under Standing Order 95 to request that the Mover be now called upon to reply.

Hon. Farah Maalim): You want the Mover to be called upon to reply. That is all. First of all, before I make a decision on that, I want to recognise the presence of Uthiru Genesis School in the Gallery. The school is from Kikuyu Constituency, which belongs to the Leader of the Majority Party. Please, welcome the school.

Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah, I am talking about a school from your constituency and you are on the phone! I also recognise Nginda Mixed Secondary School from Maragwa Constituency. Please welcome that school.

We welcome the young girls and boys from those schools. We hope you will see a good example because you are the future leaders. Thank you. You can now rise on your point of order again. Did you raise it?

I am done.

Hon. Farah Maalim): Well noted.

Order.

Hon. Farah Maalim): Order! You do not say: “Order, Hon. Temporary Speaker”.

Hon. Members, there are other Bills that are coming to the Floor of the House. Since they are all interrelated, the Temporary Chairman will make a point of giving those who did not get an opportunity to contribute on this Bill to contribute to the next one. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I would have wished to donate my time. However, according to Standing Order 95, I am not allowed to do so. Therefore, I thank all the Members for their contributions on the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill, which was in the Second Reading. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply.

Hon. Farah Maalim): Next Order.

Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, we are now in the Committee of the whole House to consider four Bills. We will start with the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 31 of 2023).

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Chairman.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023) and approved the same without amendments.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members having completed that, we will now go to the Appropriation Bill, National Assembly Bill No.27 of 2023.

THE APPROPRIATION BILL (National Assembly Bill No.27 of 2023)

( Clauses 2, 3 and 4 agreed to)

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Mover, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.

(Kiharu, UDA) Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule on the Appropriation Bill, 2023 for the FY 2023/2024 be amended – (a) In Vote D1094 – State Department for Housing and Urban Development, i) By deleting the figure Ksh14,400,000,000 in Column 3 (Supply), under programme 0102000 Housing Development and Human Settlement and substituting therefor the figure Ksh16,800,000,000. ii) by deleting the figure Ksh969,000,000 in Column 4 (Appropriations-in- Aid), under programme 0102000, Housing Development and Human Settlement and substituting therefor the figure Ksh64,189,000,000. iii) by deleting the figure Ksh13,043,000,000 in Column 3 (Supply) under programme 0105000 Urban and Metropolitan Development and substituting therefor the figure Kshs11,543,000,000. iv) by effecting the consequential amendments thereof. (b) In Vote R2041 – Parliamentary Service Commission, i) by deleting the figure Ksh901,000,000 in Column 3, under programme 0765000 General Administration Planning and Support Services and substituting therefor the figure Ksh871,000,000. ii) by deleting the figure Ksh10,000,000 in Column 3 under programme 0766000 Human Resources Management and Development and substituting therefor the figure Kshs40,000,000. (c) In Vote R2044 – Senate, i) by deleting the figure Ksh3,006,650,000 in Column 3 under programme 0767000 Senate Legislation and Oversight and substituting therefor the figure Kshs3,056,650,000. ii) by deleting the figure Ksh1,790,699,100 in Column 3 under programme 0768000 Senate Representation, Liaison & Intergovernmental Relations and substituting therefor the figure Ksh1,783,199,100. iii) by deleting the figure Ksh2,360,650,900 in Column 3 under programme 0769000 General Administration Planning and Support Services and substituting therefor the figure Kshs2,318,150,900. These amendments are for Votes D1094, R2041 and R2044. The ramification of this, starting with the latest I have mentioned, is tidying up the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) budget. This usually happens as we refine the Appropriations Bill to place figures where they should be and reduce movement. Hon. Members, need to take note of Vote D1094 because yesterday, we passed the Finance Bill which has the Housing Levy that is now a revenue stream. The amount we will raise from this Levy will go to the housing programme of this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Republic. Therefore, we are apportioning the same amount we are raising on the revenue side to the expenditure side. Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I move the amendment.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I rise to support this amendment. Yesterday, I do not know whether it was the Kisii County Member or another one...

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Let me propose the Question.

Leader of the Majority Party, you may proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. Sorry I started contributing before you proposed the Question. I rise to support this amendment because yesterday, the Minority Whip drew reference to the Railway Development Levy (RDL). He said some time in 2018 when it was created, it was sold as a way of helping settle the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) loans, but later, it was opened up. As I promised the House yesterday, this amendment is to buttress and ring-fence the Housing Fund to ensure the money is not used for other purposes. Once it is collected and goes to the Consolidated Fund without being appropriated to the relevant line Ministry, it can go to debt payment, construction of roads, payment of free primary education or other Government uses. Through this amendment, we are ring-fencing this money to ensure the money raised out of the 1.5% per cent Housing Fund will go to the Ministry of Housing to help actualise the housing dream and agenda. As was indicated by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works during the Second Reading, the first batch of 100 units per constituency… I have been told by the Ministry that the first 29 constituencies are ready, including those of our friends in Azimio. The Leader of the Minority Party has submitted his list of public land where affordable housing can be done. That is why I was thanking Members yesterday during the Third Reading of the Finance Bill. Indeed, even those who publicly oppose the Housing Fund when it comes to the actualisation and implementation of those projects, they are in support because they know this is good for this country. I want to encourage all Members of Parliament to identify public land in their constituencies where they can implement the housing agenda. 100 units in your constituency will create a minimum of 800 to 1,000 jobs for young men and women. I want to tell the people of Kikuyu that the land at the new Deputy County Commissioner’s (DCCs) Office has already been earmarked for the first 200 units and the young men and women from Kikuyu Constituency will access jobs. This is not what was being sold in the political bashing of the Finance Bill, that it is manual jobs for the people called ‘ watu wa kukoroga’ . It is from architects, engineers, electricians and land surveyors who will demarcate the land we are planning to construct on. Lawyers will also benefit from the conveyancing that will come out of the process of sale of the units constructed. Above all, the urbanisation of constituencies from units built will help consolidate land and afford more land for agriculture so as to secure the food situation in the country. Therefore, I support this amendment and I am glad that the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriation Committee has done exactly what he promised yesterday during the Third Reading of the Finance Bill. This money should not just disappear in some pot. It should be earmarked for actual construction of houses. I can tell everybody to watch this space as young The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

men and women get employed as construction equipment roars in Kisii County. In Kiambu County, people are very congested. I hope Hon. Donya, Women Representative for Kisii County, will be able to see the real benefits of what we did yesterday in the Finance Bill and support the implementation of those projects. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

Hon. Members, if you wish to speak to this amendment, kindly hit the intervention button. I can see Hon. (Dr) Pukose.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I want to support the amendment by the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on this. The Housing Fund is, as the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party has put it, one of the key projects that is going to unlock the economy of this country. It has many benefits in that, there are those who will benefit directly through the construction such as the plumbers, masons, carpenters, electricians, and indirectly, that is the architects and hardware stores. You remember in many of the public participations, people have insisted that we would want the materials that are going to be used in those projects to be sourced from the surrounding community. It is going to benefit them. Yesterday, we saw the amendment that was done in the Export Processing Zones (EPZ) Authority where they will have to source materials from within, without paying any taxes. If you look at the amendments and Bills that this Government is doing, you will see that we are on the right track. I ask Kenyans to be patient and come together as a team, and this country will be great. With those few remarks, I support.

Hon. Nyakundi, Member for Kitutu Chache North.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I support this amendment by Hon. Ndindi Nyoro who is the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. For sure, they have done a good job. Housing is one of the key development factors for Kenya Kwanza. I support this amendment because they have decided to ring-fence this money that is going to the housing project. This will go a long way in giving jobs to the young people who are suffering out here, and creating households to young people who do not have houses. A good example is in Kisii, where we have shortage of land. This will go a long way in giving houses to the young people in our area. I am very sure that Kenya is going to be a construction site and many young people are going to benefit from the Housing Levy.

The Hon. Beatrice Elachi on my left.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I support this amendment. I know every Kenyan would wish to have a house and I support. I am in Nairobi and I have seen those houses. All I am saying is when we are building those houses, Parliament should ensure that the State Department for Public Works should not bring in shoddy specifications where you wonder whether it is a house or a kiosk that is being built. If you go to Pangani Affordable Housing today, you will see how unworthy it is for Kenyans to buy such a house. If you walk in to the project that is being done now by China Wu Yi Co. Ltd. and the Government, it is disappointing. Let us be keen on the specifications. Let us support housing, but build houses of dignity and ensure even as we build, we keep in mind we have children. Let us remember we need housing for schools because of the children. If you build more houses that means more people and they must have all the facilities required. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I told the President I support… I want to see dignity for Kenyans as they live in those houses so that we do not have a housing project that again will become a white elephant for our people. I support the amendments of the Chairperson and appreciate him. We should also speak about the county governments. Let us see the county governors coming up with good memoranda of understanding with the national Government so that we do not go into a fight the way we did over the health equipment scheme. Let us have clear memoranda with the county governments so that we do a good project that everyone will feel that their money has been spent well. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

(Hon. (Dr,) Rachael Nyamai): Lastly, Hon. Martha Wangari.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I also rise to support this amendment and concur with the many Members who have spoken to it that we are going to make a difference using this Levy. More importantly, this will be a shared function between the national Government and the county governments. After this, what we shall be dealing with is the implementation. The cooperation with the counties must also benefit the specific counties where these projects will be undertaken. The issues of sourcing labour and materials must benefit the specific area where those projects will be undertaken. More importantly is that moving forward, even as we debate the county allocations, we have to stem out and deal with is corruption, and pilferage of funds that are meant to finance projects to benefit the public. This year and last year have been very tough. They are tough times for the public. We cannot afford to have any corruption with these monies. I hope we will put in place stringent measures and oversee the appropriation of these monies, as the two Houses of Parliament. The same should apply to the counties. The Senate and the county assemblies should also be able to oversee the counties’ monies so that we make sure that every shilling that is meant to benefit a Kenyan does not go into a pocket of an individual. That way, we will be able to get the benefit and value for money. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members this brings us to the end of this particular Bill. I now call upon the Mover, the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, to move reporting.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.27 of 2023) and its approval thereof with amendments. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Members. We are still in the Committee of the whole House. Let us move to the Equalization Fund Appropriation Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2023)

THE EQUALISATION FUND APPROPRIATION BILL (Senate Bill No.3 of 2023)

Yes, Hon. Ruku.

I have a proposed amendment, which is not yet ready. I request if this Equalisation…

Let me execute my question. The reason why I propose an amendment is because Mbeere North Constituency is one of the very marginalised communities we have in the Republic of Kenya. When I went through the Bill, there is nowhere Mbeere North Constituency is included in the Equalization Bill. When we talk about agro-ecological zones, Mbeere North Constituency is one of the semi-arid areas in the Republic of Kenya. Therefore, if there is a place that has been marginalised by even the previous regimes, it is Mbeere North and Mbeere South communities. I, therefore…

Order, Hon. Ruku. You know very well that you are out of order. You are not the Mover of this Bill. So, you cannot move an amendment on the Floor. We may proceed.

Mover, please, move reporting.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Equalisation Fund Appropriation Bill (Senate Bill No.3 of 2023) and its approval thereof without amendments.

Thank you.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Members, please, stay in the House. We are almost done. Let us move to the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 023).

THE COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE BILL (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023)

Mover, please, initiate the reporting process.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023) and its approval thereof without amendments.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023) and approved the same without amendment.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I request Hon. John Njuguna Kawanjiku to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House.

Proceed, Hon. Kawanjiku.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Order. You can bow to demonstrate that you are seconding. They are bullying you. Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I was misguided by my seniors in the House. I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Members, bowing is sufficient to demonstrate that you have seconded the Motion. You can have it both ways. Do not worry.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023) be now read a Third Time.

I also request Hon. Jayne Kihara of Naivasha to second.

Proceed, Hon. Jayne Kihara. You can say a bit more. I know you wanted to say much more. Proceed and second the Motion.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to second. I also want to congratulate the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the great work that he has done. This being the first budget of the Kenya Kwanza Government, the Committee has done a marvellous job.

Put the Question!

I have confirmed that we have the requisite quorum. I will proceed to put the Question. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO.2) BILL (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023)

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Supplementary Appropriation (No.2) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2023) be now read a Third Time. I also request Hon. Jayne Kihara to second.

I second.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 27 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request Hon. Rindikiri Murwithania to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second.

Put the Question!

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.27 of 2023) be now read a Third Time. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I also request Hon. Janet Sitienei of Turbo Constituency to second.

Proceed, Hon. Janet Sitienei.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the well thought out Report. I second.

Put the Question.

Hon. Chairperson, proceed.

Hon. Chairman, proceed. Report to the House.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Equalisation Fund Appropriation Bill (Senate Bill No.3 of 2023) and approved the same without amendment.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. John Kiarie to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I second this Motion, I want to put it on record that this House has done its bit on the most important business of the Legislature, which is working on the Budget and appropriating monies to the various Government ministries and other entities. This House has further work to do on oversight. Even us who are on the Government side, after the appropriation, we shall be extremely vigilant with the Executive, the National Treasury and Cabinet Secretaries to ensure that every single coin that we have appropriated goes to its intended use and it is not misappropriated.

Thank you very much. I second the Motion.

Are you on a point of order?

Order.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is out of order? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Commission on Revenue Allocation of the Republic of Kenya is completely out of order.

You are out of order. This is not the place to deliberate on that one.

Order, Hon. Members. You can take your annoyance or disappointment to another forum.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Equalisation Fund Appropriation Bill (Senate Bill No.3 of 2023) be now read a Third Time.

I request Hon. Major Sheikh Bashir to second.

Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I take this opportunity to thank the Chairman and Committee for a thorough job. As I second this very important Bill, I urge the counties to ensure that monies that will be appropriated are utilised properly for the services of the people who need them.

I support and second.

Put the Question.

Hon. Members, I have confirmed that we have quorum.

The Chairperson to report to the House on the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023).

Hon. Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023) and has approved the same without amendments.

Mover, Hon. Ndindi.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Duncan Maina Mathenge, the Member for Nyeri Town, to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House.

(Nyeri Town, UDA) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second the report of the Committee and agree with the Committee of the whole House on the additional appropriations to county governments. However, it is important that county governments appropriate the money in the key areas of the devolved functions. It is quite unfortunate that a hospital like Nyeri Provincial General Hospital is sending patients to go and buy intravenous fluids from private chemists yet the House has allocated funds to the counties. It is important that the National Government do timely disbursement of money to the counties. We are giving them notice that we will insist that services that are devolved are funded at the right time.

Lastly, county governments must ring-fence funds that are allocated for particular functions. The issue of deviating funds from the functions they were intended for should be discouraged.

Finally, on the issue of pending bills in counties, we are appropriating and allocating extra funds to counties and yet our people continue to suffer because they have rendered services but have not been paid. This is no longer tenable. I wish that this House be resolute in ensuring that at the end of each financial year, county governments should not roll over pending bills.

I beg to second.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to move that the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023) be now read at a Third Time. I also request the Vice-Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, Hon. Mary Emaase to second.

Hon. Mary Emaase. Kindly, give her the microphone. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I second, I also wish to reiterate that county governments must make sure that the monies that this Bill is seeking to be released from the Consolidated Fund is utilised for the intended purposes. The pending bills should be given first charge so that we do not have our contractors being auctioned, loosing businesses and committing suicide. The county governments must settle all pending bills.

I second.

Put the Question!

The tradition is that between the proposal and the putting of the Question, I should resume my seat and look at both sides. I do not know whether that tradition has changed in the last ten years I have been out of this House.

Hon. Members, I want to recognise the presence of students from a very good and well- known national school. They are students from Mang’u High School, who are seated in the Public Gallery.

I do not know who the Member of Parliament for that area is. Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, I am giving you an opportunity to say something.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I feel indebted to thank Members. What we have done today is a culmination of a very long journey we started last year in terms of the Budget-making process. This House considered the entire process, which included the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) and the Budget Estimates, and we have now approved the Appropriation Bill. I want to thank Members for their invaluable support in terms of their ideas and time. To all Hon. Members, some of whom forfeited their lunch so that they could join us to finish this Motion, thank you. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Ruku, are you on a point of order or you want me to give you an opportunity to say something?

Proceed and say something. However, it must have nothing to do with the business that we have already transacted.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is a House of records. I want to go on record as having said that a community known as Mbeere has been discriminated against in the Equalisation Fund …

Order, Hon. Ruku! You were supposed to do that during the general debate. Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Members, freeze. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I also want to thank Hon. Members on behalf of the Chairperson's Panel for a very interesting debate that was clearly full of content. I have seen many debates in this country’s Parliament for a very long time but I have never seen one as engaging and brilliant in many senses as the one we have had. I am encouraged and I can see the future of our country and of young budding leaders who are here now being good. This country is in safe hands.

Hon. Members, the time being 1.23 p.m., the House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 1.23 p.m.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.