Serjeants-at-Arms, I order that the Quorum Bell be rung for 10 minutes.

Order, Hon. Members. We now have the requisite numbers to transact business.

Hon. Members, you may recall that during the Morning Sitting of Thursday, 14th September 2023, the House rejected Senate Amendments to the Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.16 of 2023). This decision essentially remitted the Bill to a Mediation Committee in accordance with Article 112 of the Constitution and Standing Order No.149. Hon. Members, you may further recall that during the afternoon sitting of the same day, I notified the House that I have nominated seven Members of this House to represent the National Assembly in the Mediation Committee on the Bill. I also designated the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, Hon. Owen Baya, to Co-Chair the Committee. Hon. Members, having conveyed the decision to the Senate, I wish to inform the House that the Senate has now nominated the following Senators to the Mediation Committee: 1. Sen. (Dr) Steve Ltumbesi Lelegwe, MP; 2. Sen. Johnes Mwashushe Mwaruma, MP; 3. Sen. (Dr) Oburu Oginga, MP; 4. Sen. Peris Pesi Tobiko, MP; 5. Sen. Beth Kalunda Syengo, MP; and, 6. Sen. Wahome Wamatinga, MP. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Members, now that the Mediation Committee is fully constituted, I urge Hon. Owen Baya, the Co-Chairperson of the Mediation Committee, to reach out to the Senate counterpart to commence the mediation process as per Article 113 of the Constitution. The Clerk of the National Assembly is hereby directed to facilitate the Committee. The House is accordingly guided. I thank you.

Hon. Members, take the nearest seats. Hon. Members, I have two Petitions that I will present today. We will combine them and deal with them according to the Standing Orders.

Hon. Members, Article 119 of the Constitution provides for the right of any person to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including petitioning the House to enact, amend or repeal any legislation. Further, Standing Order 225(2)(b) requires the Speaker to report to the House any petition other than those presented by a Member. In this regard, Hon. Members, I wish to report to the House that my Office has received a Petition from Mr. Roberts Njunukha Wekesa on behalf of teachers teaching in special learning institutions across the country. The Petitioners are calling for the termination of unlawful deductions by the Teachers Service Commission in favour of the Kenya Union of Special Needs Education Teachers (KUSNET). Hon. Members, the Petitioners aver that the Teachers Service Commission has been deducting union dues in the form of agency fees in favour of the Kenya Union of the Special Needs Education Teachers without their approval or consent. The Petitioners further aver that the Commission had unlawfully made them subscribe to the union through remittance of monthly union dues, which were later stopped by the court, and later realized that the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) was deducting union fees in the form of agency fees without their consent. Hon. Members, the Petitioners claim that they approached the Commission requesting to be allowed to join other unions of their choice but were dismissed on the grounds that the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the Teachers Service Commission, Kenya Union of Post Primary Education Teachers (KUPPET), Kenya National Union of Teachers (KNUT) and Kenya Union of the Special Needs Education Teachers (KUSNET) placed all special needs teachers under KUSNET, which was a binding agreement which the teachers who fall under that category were to abide by. The Petitioner further claims that there has never been any participation to sensitise members on the activities of the union and other related matters, and their efforts to have their concerns addressed by the relevant bodies/agencies, specifically the TSC and KUSNET, have not borne any fruit. Hon. Members, the Petitioners therefore pray that the National Assembly, through the Public Petitions Committee, intervenes to compel the TSC to: The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

1. Stop the unlawful deductions in favour of KUSNET, especially for teachers who have never signed up for membership to KUSNET; 2. Refund the money to the affected teachers; and, 3. Allow Members to join unions of their choice. Hon. Members, having determined that the matters raised by the Petitioners are well within the authority of this House and, further that the matters raised in this Petition are not pending before any court of law, constitutional or legal body, I hereby commit the Petition to the Public Petitions Committee for consideration pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 208A. The Committee is required to consider the Petition and report its findings to the House and the Petitioners in accordance with Standing Order 227(2). I thank you.

I will give the Members at the back a minute to take the nearest seats.

Order, Hon. Members. I have a second Petition.

Hon. Members, Article 119 of the Constitution provides for the right of any person to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including petitioning the House to enact, amend or repeal any legislation. Additionally, according to Standing Order 225(2)(b), the Speaker must report to the House any petition other than those that a Member has presented. In this regard, Hon. Members, I wish to report to the House that my Office has received a Petition from Mr. Benard Mokaya Magembe, the Chairperson of the Council of the Institute of Credit Management Kenya, calling for the enactment of legislation to regulate the credit profession. The Petitioner avers that, according to the 2022 Kenya Financial Sector Deepening Report on Inclusive Finance, levels of financial inclusion, as measured by the access dimensions, stood at 83.7 per cent, attributed to various developments in the financial services sector and general expansion of the economy. The Petitioner further notes that according to the World Bank, the domestic credit to the private sector of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) stood at 32 per cent in 2020, while gross loans listed as per the Credit Officer Survey Report by the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) totaled Ksh3.677 trillion as at December 2022, among other reports. These, according to the Petitioner, are indicators of a robust credit market in the country. The Petitioner is concerned that despite the growth of the sector, consumer lending raises significant consumer protection risks and concerns, which can be mitigated by having certified credit professionals. The Petitioner alleges that other professions in Kenya, including accountants, lawyers, fiscal analysts, engineers and doctors, among others, are regulated through a statute for the effective discharge of their mandate and yet, the credit profession is not regulated. The Petitioner is convinced that the enactment of the proposed legislation, which has numerous benefits, would be instrumental in sensitising and cushioning consumers from a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

number of risks, including breach of transparency, unconscionable conduct and loss of assets, among others. The Petitioner, therefore, prays that the National Assembly enacts legislation to regulate the credit profession to provide a qualified and well-regulated credit profession that, in the long term, will ensure stability and sustainability of lending institutions, among other attendant provisions. Hon. Members, having determined that the matters raised by the Petitioner are well within the authority of this House and further that the matters raised in this Petition are not pending before any court of law, constitutional or legal body, I hereby commit the Petition to the Public Petitions Committee for consideration, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 208A. The Committee is required to consider the Petition and report its findings to the House and to the Petitioner in accordance with Standing Order 227(2). I thank you. Hon. Members, those who wish to comment on the petitions should kindly press the intervention button. I will start with Hon. Gitonga Murugara. Let us limit our comments to a maximum of three minutes.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Petition by Mr. Roberts Wekesa raises very serious issues against TSC on unlawful deductions of their money to fund a Union which they claim they are not members. This is very important because deductions by TSC can only be through a check-off system that individual members have signed for. It cannot be because of a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) among TSC, Kenya National Union of Teachers (KNUT), Kenya Union of Post-Primary Education Teachers (KUPPET) and the third Union. The TSC is authorising teachers who are not union members to join it by force. Joining trade unions is an individual choice. Therefore, if there is any element of coercion or forceful entry into unions, that should be frowned upon. This is a Petition that should be looked into very seriously because our teachers are complaining. Mr. Benard Mokaya’s Petition is on domestic credit. We have always had a problem with domestic money lenders. As we say, those are unscrupulous money lenders who deceive impecunious borrowers. They have to go to those shylocks to get money for their immediate needs. We may require a law to regulate this. Whether credit professionals exist, this must be studied. It is also a Petition that must be looked into quickly because shylocks continue to get money from impecunious borrowers at exorbitant interest rates. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The petitions are timely.

Member for Nyando.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Petition on the mistreatment of teachers by the TSC needs to be looked into quickly and addressed urgently. The TSC is known for its notoriety. It has perpetuated certain ills to teachers. Hon. Mbai, my friend and the Chair of the Public Petitions Committee, needs to delve into it in depth, and find a permanent solution. Article 36 (2) of the Constitution says that a person shall not be compelled to join an association of any kind. Whereas Article 36 (1) of the Constitution pays credence to get into any association of your choice, one cannot be compelled to join any. Therefore, it is a matter of right. It is a fundamental freedom that we enjoy. Therefore, the TSC is rearing its ugly head on teachers' affairs without their approval. It is giving a seal of approval on any kind of association and that must be nabbed. The sooner we do this, the better so that our teachers can have unfettered freedom that is being enjoyed by anybody else. Lastly, those are teachers who are handling special cases. We all understand how difficult handling children or students in general is. This is a special unit that is being handled The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

by those teachers who are subjected to mistreatment by TSC. It is time that we wake up and realise the important or critical role that our teachers play in shepherding and shaping up our children for the betterment of this country. I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to contribute.

Thank you. Before I give a chance to the next speaker, allow me to recognise students in the Speaker's Gallery today. We have Chereta Secondary School, Laikipia West Constituency, Laikipia County; Mwihoko Secondary School, Ruiru Constituency, Kiambu County and the best three students from Kapsabet Girls, Emgwen Constituency, Nandi County. I also recognise, in the Public Gallery today, Jamhuri Primary School in Kibra Constituency, Nairobi City County and Nyahururu Munyaka Day Secondary School from Laikipia West Constituency, Laikipia County. On my behalf and that of the House, I welcome you to observe the proceedings of the House. The next person to speak will be the Member for Runyenjes, Hon. Eric Muchangi. He is not willing to speak to this. I will give the next Member, Hon. Robert Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the Petition by Mr. Roberts Wekesa on what the TSC is doing to the members of the teaching profession. The TSC played a very major role in the destruction of the biggest trade union for teachers called KNUT. It was a giant ten years ago. If you go all over the country right now, you will find that KNUT offices have been shut. They had maybe 20 employees, but they have been left with one employee. Some are closed and gathering dust. Some are unable to pay even rent because of what the TSC did. My understanding of a tripartite agreement is that there has to be the employer, that is TSC, the employee who is a teacher and then their union. How is it possible that TSC can purport to decide on behalf of the employees, where their money is taken? I think the TSC is trying to make it compulsory for teachers to be in certain unions, which is totally against the law. I support those employees of special needs education. The TSC should stop the deductions immediately and refund all the money that it has taken. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. The next chance will go to the Member for Endebess.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you for allowing me to contribute to these petitions. This issue concerns the KUSNET getting subscriptions from TSC Members without their consent. Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is height of impunity by TSC. As the Committee looks into it, this is something urgent. I know the Committee on Petitions has a lot of petitions before it, but the Chair and the Committee are up to the task. I want them to expeditiously look into this Petition to ensure injustices that have been committed against those teachers are corrected. If possible, the person responsible for those deductions should be surcharged for the suffering of those people. Secondly, that person should be dismissed from the service because that is unprofessional. It borders on impunity because you are occupying an office where you are supposed to take responsibility and yet, you are abusing those powers. This is an abuse of the office. We will be following keenly to see what the Committee recommends on this, and if possible, Hon. Chair, you can submit a report to this House. We can debate it and ensure the House resolves some of those issues. With those few remarks, I support this Petition.

Thank you. Let us have the Hon. Leader of the Minority Party. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I want to comment on the Petition concerning the credit professionals or credit service providers. It is a timely Petition, and if at all it is true that there is no law governing credit providers, then it is high time such a law was enacted because that lacuna can be very dangerous. As we know, Kenyans are going through tough times financially and economically, and everybody is struggling to make ends meet. Therefore, many times, people resort to those credit providers, many of whom are people you do not understand where they are coming from or going. Due to desperation, Kenyans are subjected to very stringent conditions via those shylocks, if I may call them so. So, we need a law to govern the shylocks for lack of proper terminology and the credit providers generally. This is so that credit facilities can be managed in an environment with certainty and predictability. As we know, credit is a critical factor in economic growth generally. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. Let us have Hon. KJ.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Petition on credit people who, in a real sense, are shylocks, is timely. As the Petitions Committee looks at this, I hope they will come up with proposals that might lead to legislation. Predatory lending is very rampant in this country that, if you look around, you will see that there are people who are preying on the desperation of Kenyans. People who lend money to people knowing that the people who are borrowing are extremely desperate. They then put a very high interest to make sure that the person borrowing cannot pay and, after that, they come back and claim a property or auction the borrower. We need a law that will rein in those predatory lenders. That might have informed some of the moves that the Government is making, for example, the Hustler Fund that seeks to plug into that space where predatory lending had gone digital that even reputable institutions are lending to Kenyans in a predatory manner. As we look at those informal ones, let us also go into the banks and see what they do to Kenyans. If you look at the newspaper, you will find eleven pages, acres and acres of properties of Kenyans who cannot repay their loans taken by auctioneers. Finally, Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me this one minute to say to the Committee of Petitions that, as they look at this petition, they should also consider the matters of infringement of existing laws; laws such as the Kenya Privacy Data Protection Bill. Those predatory lenders are offending the privacy of data owners in Kenya. The law on computer misuse and cybercrimes, the way they infringe on people’s privacy when claiming the money they had lent to Kenyans, is an infringement of the existing laws. As we look at the new laws, let us call them out for the laws they are offending. I appreciate this opportunity.

Hon. Member for Malava.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This issue of illegal deductions has appeared before our Committee severally. In the last Parliament, we had a number of complaints about the KNUT deductions for members who were not willing to be members. The TSC opened an online platform asking teachers who are not willing to be members of KNUT to deregister. Many teachers deregistered from KNUT. What happened is that we have some unscrupulous teachers who go around forming pressure groups. They collect signatures illegally from teachers, not knowing they are signing in for those kinds of deductions. So, I would ask that when we have those kinds of persons who carry those lists of teachers who they purport to have joined their organisations pressure groups, TSC should proceed to first open a platform where they can ask those teachers if they are willing to be members to those particular pressure groups before they begin making those deductions. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

In the meantime, I urge TSC, just as it did with KNUT, to open a platform today. I know they are following these proceedings. They can ask those teachers to deregister as the Committee on Petitions continues with investigations. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Member for Navakholo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I wish to comment on this Petition of TSC. This issue of the TSC deducting from teachers who are not members is key. It is not just an issue of deducting non-members; rather, it is an issue of being responsible regarding the functions they are given. The issue of the deduction on teachers’ salaries should be checked in terms of the holistic way in which TSC is handling teachers generally. There is an issue to do with the payment of teachers upon retirement. We need to look at it in totality so that this is not just a concern with making deductions for the union. The issue of credit professionals is timely. When we look at the issues the Petitioner has raised, what is the function of our credit manager in any organisation? It is a midwife between the spending of funds and how the business aspires to grow in terms of risk. Therefore, the people you rely on must be people who are controlled, checked and trusted in terms of mid-wifing the functions of an organisation and the Government at large. I support the two petitions.

Hon. Member for Runyenjes, this is your second shot.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to react to the issue of unscrupulous money lenders. In our country, there are many young people who those predatory money lenders are terrorising. You go to the market, a motorbike is costing Ksh120,000, but the youth are forced to pay for the same motorbike up to a total of Ksh250,000 or even Ksh300,000. By the time they finish paying the loan, the motorbike is already malfunctioning. Those lenders are taking young people through that cycle of poverty. So, I agree with the Petitioner that those people are terrorising our people. It is time that we rein them in through the law. Those problems informed the idea behind the Hustler Fund, which provides cheap loans from which the young people can benefit. I support that Petition. Let that Petitioner be listened to and action taken against those predatory money lenders. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. I now call upon the Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee. I give you two minutes to assure the House that follow-up will be done.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the two petitions. Additionally, I want to assure this House that, although the petitions are many and are flowing through the Speaker, the Committee is up to the task. We have introduced one very important aspect where we have developed an online monitoring tool for Members to track the Petitions of their interest at the Table Office. So, any Member who has a Petition before the Committee is in a position to track its status. Some Members have always come forward with petitions of their interest. I also encourage Members to write to us specifically if they want to be a friend of the Committee during the interview of certain witnesses so that we allow them to join the Committee. That way, Members can get first-hand information on what is happening. We also know that these petitions are not just for activism. They are real issues touching on the lives of Kenyans, and we take them seriously. Our reports to the House are meant to correct the anomalies and issues affecting the people. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Lastly, the Committee does not tire of visiting constituencies where Members have brought petitions which touch on certain areas within their constituencies. The Committee always purposes to visit those areas to assure the public within the constituencies that their Members have Petitions in the House. We listen to the public and assure them that the whole issue will be solved. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

We are almost closing this debate. Member for Thika Town.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to speak briefly on the two petitions. On the first one, on unlawful deductions by TSC to KUSNET, I will say that the era of exploitation and intimidation is over. There is no way you can force someone to give out money and yet, they do not want to belong to you. I do not want to be very fair to TSC. They need to return that money and be surcharged for deducting that money against the will of the teachers. The teachers were supposed to be given an opportunity to give their views. If I do not want to do something, why do you force associating with me? That is what the union is doing right now - forcing teachers to contribute money and intimidating them. If you do not comply, you are transferred far from your home. That should stop immediately. It is bad and extremely awkward. It is unacceptable. They cannot do that at all in this era: that you force somebody to join your union. If those teachers have not seen why they should be in that union, why force them? As for the lenders, we have seen many people suffer. For those people who know about shylocks, they do not give you that money for you to refund but to impose interest until you are not in a position to refund. Then they come after you immediately and take twice what they gave you. So, without laws to govern those lenders, there is a lacuna in that area. That is why they take advantage because they know no one can question them. They also know that when people go to a shylock, no one forces them to go there. People go there because of the problems they have. Therefore, because they know that, shylocks take advantage of such situations. When they give you money, they encourage you to borrow as much as you can and yet, they know very well that you will not be in a position to pay the interest earned. I also want to add that it is not just those shylocks; even our banks use the same formula. They give you a 10 per cent loan and then, at the end of the documentation, they insert an illegible clause that tells you that they can increase the interest as they wish. Our people have suffered because they took loans at very low interest rates, which have since been hiked. We should cushion them so that we protect our people. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. This chance goes to the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Petition on unlawful deductions by TSC to KUSNET. This Petition is the tip of the iceberg. Workers across this country in all sectors have had problems with unions or institutions that collude with employers to deduct money from them. This is a pointer to what is affecting a number of employees, both in the public and private sectors. This union, known as KUSNET, which has deducted money from teachers, needs to not only refund that money, but also with interest. This is because the teachers did not append their signatures that they be deducted the money. Through the Departmental Committee on Labour, this House should look into all Government agencies and private sector players to ensure that organisations that illegally deduct money from individuals are surcharged and brought to book. I have seen the Chairman of the Committee around and I hope he will pick up the matter. This will serve as a lesson to others who have not been pointed out. I support and ask the Public Petitions Committee to take action. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Members, to close this matter is the Member for Lamu County, Hon. Muthoni Marubu. She is doing her maiden speech. Therefore, she will be heard uninterrupted and in silence for a maximum of ten minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Order, Hon. Omanyo! Be silent.

Order, Members. Hon. Junet and Hon. Okello, you are out of order. Take your seats. You are totally out of order.

If you are leaving, leave using your feet, not your mouth. Hon. Members, you will hear Hon. Muthoni in silence and uninterrupted.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. My name is Hon. Muthoni Monicah Marubu. I was born in the village of Kiongwe in Mpeketoni. I went to Ndeu Primary School, Hindi Ward. I then proceeded to Lamu Girls High School. Later, I pursued a Degree in International Relations, Diplomacy and Foreign Affairs at the United States International University-Africa (USIU). I have been on the list of shame of Members who have never spoken on the Floor of this House. I take this opportunity to apologise to the people of Lamu for putting them in the media for the wrong reasons. But I happen to be one of those students who are very average. I start from humble beginnings as I rise over time. I scored 258 out of 500 in the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE), which was quite average. I went to Lamu Girls High School and made that mark a B (plain) in the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE). At the university, I graduated with First Class Honours.

Even with my humble beginnings, I will do the people of Lamu right. Lamu County is blessed with a huge economic potential. It is home to the Lamu Port and the Lamu Port, South Sudan, Ethiopia Transport Corridor (LAPSSET) Programme which, if implemented, would be very good for this country and East and Central Africa. Hon. Temporary Speaker, Lamu County has a landmass of approximately 6,797 km2 of arable land and an industrious and resilient population. Our capacity to grow food when the country is battling food insecurity is untapped. Our blue economy potential is also untapped. We have very high potential. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Two very serious issues have jeopardised this very promising future of our county. One is ineffective land management, and two is the recurrent cases of insecurity. I would like to delve a little into the history of Lamu to put perspective into my argument. Traditionally, before the invasion of the Arabs, Lamu was managed under the African traditional customary land tenure system. There was no need for land adjudication, mapping, or titles. The community engaged in rotational subsistence farming and lived in Swahili villages. In the pre-colonial era, Lamu was colonised by the Arabs under the Sultanate of Zanzibar. When the Sultan came with his people, the rights of the people of Lamu ceased to exist. They did not have the right to own land and they were subjects of the Sultan. After the post-colonial era, the land went under the Crown. Again, the rights of the people of Lamu were neglected and they were made to be squatters on their land. After colonisation, the Jomo Kenyatta Government negotiated terms with the Sultan and the colonial masters and again, the Lamu people remained squatters on their land. In a Gazette Notice of 21st October 1983, under Kenya Gazette No.4058, all inhabited land was declared Government land. In Lamu East Islands, Kyunga, Kiwayu and Boni forest, among other areas, the Government has continued to disfavour our people by displacing them from their ancestral land in favour of environmental conservation without relocating them or giving them any alternative land. After the promulgation of the new Constitution, the responsibility to help the indigenous people of Lamu acquire land was given to the county council. During this time, all land, particularly in Lamu East, was sub-divided into private ranches. All this while, nobody has ever cared about the indigenous people of Lamu. Only those in power and the elites have continued to take all the land and neglect the people of Lamu. Whenever I introduce myself as a Member of Parliament for Lamu, people say: “Muthoni, why and what are you doing in Lamu?” It is deemed that Muthonis are not supposed to be in Lamu. I was elected alongside 11 other Members of Parliament on an independent ticket, like Hon. Rahim of North Imenti, in a predominantly Meru community and Christian constituency, and Hon. Shakeel Shabbir of Kisumu East. This constituency is predominantly of the Luo community and Christian. My Colleagues are Kenyans of Indian origin and of Islam faith. Nobody questions what they are doing in Kisumu and Meru, respectively. I often ask myself: Is it the case of the animal farm where all animals are equal and others are more equal or is the conspiracy perfect for Muthoni? In an ideal country, nobody should question what religion or tribe I come from, but my identity has been questioned. I have sought to understand why I do not have the right to become like you or like Hon. Junet, Hon. Rahim or any other Member that I can represent my county or constituency without being put into question. The original idea to have the Kikuyus settled in Lamu was born from a report by the then Director for Agriculture, Lord Swynnerton, in 1954, where the colonial government intended to improve agriculture in the country. They had resolved to put up a settlement scheme. I have mentioned that I am a student of history. During this time, the colonial masters decided that they should not return the Mau detainees from Lamu and Manda Island to where they came from but put them in Lamu so that they do not disturb the government or the colonial masters and their interests as they got back into the country. Additionally, Hon. Temporary Speaker, as I have mentioned, I am a history student and understand that, as the injustices were happening in Lamu, they were also happening across the country. The people where my ancestors come from were also dealt with the same fate where their ancestral lands were taken by the colonial master and later by individuals who happen to be in Government. Those people were landless the same way my people of Lamu have continued to be landless. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

After the Kenyatta Government came into power, a settlement scheme called the Lake Kenyatta Settlement Scheme, measuring 34,137 acres, was set in place. Naturally, you would expect people from the area to be incorporated into the land, but when the… Time imeisha ? This is my Maiden Speech. Should I be worried about the time?

Hon. Muthoni, that is just a warning. When you see the amber light, you have a minute. But I will give you a few more minutes to finish.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I needed to put a case so that it could be understood why we have a Muthoni in Lamu and also, so that I could speak about the killings in my County. When you talk to anybody, it is understood that they will tell you why we are being killed in Lamu because we have taken all the land, and there is a Muthoni who is a Member of Parliament in Lamu. Bordering the Lake Kenyatta Settlement Scheme are several private ranches. Nyongoro Ranch measures 76,000 acres, TSS Ranch measures 7,000 acres. Witu Livestock measures 14,000 acres. Kibokoni Ranch measures 6,725 acres, Nairobi Ranch measures 50,000 acres and many others. As I mentioned, traditionally, Lamu was colonised by people who believed in the slave trade. Those people still believe that some people are supposed to be their slaves. They are supposed to farm and give them food, and they are supposed to be serving them in the theme of servitude.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, please protect me from Hon. Osoro. In 2014, I woke up to a pool of blood. I was a Member of the County Assembly (MCA) in Mpeketoni Village. Sixty Kikuyu men were butchered, and people have not understood clearly how those people were being killed. They were killed in a form of ethnic cleansing. What is happening in Lamu is not Al-Shabaab but pure ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is the forceful eviction of an ethnic community from a region. We have lost more than 200 men of Kikuyu origin in Lamu. I would speak the same way if any other tribe were being killed in Lamu. We are killed because your hands are held like this, and your feet are held behind, and then you are slaughtered as your children watch.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, are we in the same country? Does the same Constitution protect us? Do the Constitution and the Bill of Rights not apply when dealing with Kikuyu in this country? Is it right to behead people? Who will protect the people of Lamu? Why are we dying aimlessly? I can no longer look at widows and orphans. It is getting out of hand, and I fear my people will soon turn against each other. It is tough to watch the widows. When you are out at night in Lamu, you are only afraid that you will run late and be beheaded. I call upon the Government to protect the people of Lamu. We recently lost the wife of a Member of the County Assembly (MCA). The MCA was the target. He is currently disabled. The people of Poromoko, Hindi and Pandanguo are afraid for their lives. People should not die just because they come from a certain community. We do not suspend the Constitution because people are from a certain community. Senior Government officials sometimes tell me that my people are dying because I am in power. They tell me I am very ambitious and so, my people are dying. Do I not have the right to become anything in this country just because I am a Kikuyu? Is it fair? Should it be like this? Who will protect me? My life is in danger. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I spoke at a presidential function and now receive death threats on my phone daily. I have been told to return to my home. Where is my home? Where do I run to? Where will I call home? Where will my children and grandchildren call home if I am killed? I call upon the Government to seriously look into these issues. I know that we elected a President under the “hustler ticket”.

Order, Members. Thank you, Hon. Muthoni Marubu.

Before we go to the next Order, allow me to recognise guests in the Speakers Gallery. We have teachers and students from Kapranga Primary School in Kesses Constituency, Uasin Gishu County; Gachema High School in Lari, Kiambu County and Sachangwan Secondary School in Molo Constituency, Nakuru County. Next Order.

Leader of the Majority Party.

South Mugirango, UDA): Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am holding brief for the Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table: 1. The Draft Proceeds of Crime and Anti-Money Laundering Regulations, 2023 from the National Treasury and Economic Planning. 2. The Draft Proceeds of Crime and Anti-Money Laundering (Criminal Assets Recovery Fund) Regulations, 2023 from the National Treasury and Economic Planning. 3. Annual Public Debt Management Report for Financial Year 2022/2023 from the National Treasury and Economic Planning. 4. Annual Performance Report for the Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Credit Guarantee Scheme for Financial Year 2022/2023 from the National Treasury and Economic Planning. 5. Report of the Auditor-General and Financial Statements on Nakuru Town West Constituency for the year ended 30th June 2023, and the certificates therein. 6. Report of the Auditor-General and Financial Statements of the University of Nairobi Pension Scheme, 2007 for the year ended 30th June 2023, and the certificates therein. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table:

Reports of the Departmental Committee on Lands on: 1. Inquiry into the Del Monte Kenya Limited Land Tussle; and, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

2. Inquiry into the Compensation of Persons Affected by the Mombasa Special Economic Zone – Dongo Kundu Project. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table: 1. Inquiry into Alleged Malpractices in the 2022 Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) Examination; 2. A Study Visit to the World Federation of Colleges and Polytechnics held in Montreal, Canada from 24th April to 4th May 2023; 3. Participation in a Workshop on Designing a Framework for a Blended TVET Teacher held in Windhoek, Namibia from 27th February to 1st March 2023; and, 4. Attendance to the 2022 International Education Conference held in Toronto, Canada from 13th to 16th November 2022. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Social Protection. Hon. Alice, you are being distracted by the Member for Laikipia.

I tell you. Sorry, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Social Protection on its Consideration of the Geriatric Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.50 of 2022).

Thank you.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on its consideration of the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.30 of 2023).

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Next Order.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Education on the Inquiry into Alleged Malpractices in the 2022 Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education Examinations, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 5th October 2023.

I request Hon. Malulu Injendi to second. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Melly, you have been here long enough. This is a notice of a motion and, therefore, you do not need a Seconder. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the inquiry into the Del Monte Kenya Limited Land Tussle, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 5th October 2023.

Before I give the next person, allow me to recognise the following students in the Public Gallery: Kalisasi Primary School from Mwingi Central Constituency, Kitui County; Kivandini Secondary School from Yatta Constituency, Machakos County; Nairasirasa Primary School from Narok North Constituency, Narok County and Oloolaiser Primary School from Narok South Constituency, Narok County. I welcome you to the National Assembly on my behalf and that of the House. I will indulge the Member for Mwingi Central for one minute to welcome them.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I welcome all the schools in the Public Gallery which have visited Parliament, particularly the school I went to, Kalisasi Primary School. They should feel welcome in Parliament, and when they return home, they should greet their parents. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Member for Mwingi Central, you have just campaigned in this House by sending greetings. Hon. Members, the next Motion is by the Member for Homa Bay Town, Peter Kaluma. If he is not in the House, the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands, you are supposed to give two notices of Motion. Have you given them?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the inquiry into the compensation of persons affected by the Mombasa Special Economic Zone – Dongo Kundu Project, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 5th October 2023. I thank you.

Hon. Kaluma are you ready for your Motion?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I move for adjournment of the House on a definite matter of urgent national importance regarding the proposed deployment of Kenyan Police to Haiti. Pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), I seek leave for the adjournment of the House for purposes of discussing a definite matter of urgent national importance regarding the intended deployment of Kenyan Police to the Republic of Haiti on a security intervention mission. Hon, Temporary Speaker, it has been recently reported in print and electronic media that the Government of the Republic of Kenya is to contribute approximately 1,000 police officers to a multi-national force to assist in Haiti, as the country contends with widespread gang violence following the approval by the United Nations Security Council. However, as a country, it is important to approach this issue with utmost consideration, for it raises questions that resonate with the primary duty of our National Police Service, which is to maintain internal security, law and order. Our police services primary duty is to protect its citizens against internal threats. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is vital to recognise the context of Haiti, which is plagued by decades of violent internal strife and a history of successful coups against its last four presidents. This backdrop adds a layer of complexity to Kenya’s planned foreign intervention mission. We cannot overlook the unfortunate instances where Kenyan police have encountered grave danger while combating insecurity on home soil. Regrettably, the Government has neither provided clear communication or explanation to Kenyans nor their representatives in the National Assembly concerning the mission, training of the officers, the scope of their involvement in the mission and, most importantly, the measures that have been put in place to ensure their safety and the well-being of their families. Of want is that there is uncertainty as to whether the Republic of Haiti is a reciprocating country within the meaning of Section 107 of the National Police Service Act to qualify for the service of Kenyan Police officers. Article 238(1) of the Constitution underscores the importance of national security, encompassing the protection of our territory and the protection of our people. Since the country has been witnessing a surge in insecurity in various parts of the country, it is imperative for the Government to conduct an assessment to ensure that our homeland security is not compromised. This matter is of utmost importance to our nation and warrants this House's thorough deliberation and careful consideration. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is against this background that I seek leave for adjournment of the House to discuss this matter of grave national concern. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Are the Members on their feet supporting the Motion of Adjournment?

Yes.

Order, Hon. Members!

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is out of order, Hon. Tongoyo?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. While I appreciate the provisions and rights of the Member who has moved the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Adjournment Motion – he is a high-ranking Member of this House and a Member of my committee, the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. He is quite aware that the matter is active in the Committee. In fact, the Cabinet Secretary and Inspector- General will appear before the Committee in the coming week to shed more light on our police proposed mission to Haiti. So, my prayer is we let the committee conclude and submit a report to this House. The Member has said that the Government has neither provided clear communication or explanation to Kenyans nor their representatives in this National Assembly. My prayer to the Member and the House is that the Adjournment Motion be withdrawn and give the Committee space and time to Table a report before this House. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is out of order, Hon. Chepkong’a?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to thank the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, Hon. Tongoyo. He has said they are discussing the matter and will bring a substantive report. On a more critical matter, you counted those standing while consulting with the Leader of the Majority Party. This is because he had an important message to pass on to us. So, we stood up, thinking we were supporting him. You counted the wrong people. Hon. Kaluma did not have quorum.

Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Peter Kaluma, you will move the Motion again.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is out of order, Hon. Leader of the Majority Party?

If you allow me, I request the Deputy Whip of the Minority Party to just hold his horses and relax. I confirm that I was also standing even though not in relation to the Adjournment Motion by Hon. Kaluma and I was counted. He had consultation with a number of us here who were standing. Hon. Ng’elechei also tells me that they were consulting with the Member seated next to her.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, please, protect me. It is okay to be interrupted by Hon. Robert Mbui, but not this lady from Busia County. This one has no capacity to interrupt me.

Hon. Leader of the Majority Party, you have no right whatsoever to say “this lady”.

I do not want to go there, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I just wanted to confirm.

No, Hon. Leader of the Majority Party. It is not “this lady”. It is “the Member for Busia County”.

The Member for Busia County has a penchant for shouting in the House instead of engaging in meaningful debate. When elected as The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

a honourable Member, you must carry yourself with honour and dignity. You do not come to this chamber to shout. You should use more of the capacity you have to debate.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I was saying that we were counted in a vote that we were not supposed to be counted in. Therefore, that is absolutely out of order. I want to support what you were saying that Hon. Kaluma can move his Motion again. Those who want to support him like Hon. Opiyo Wandayi and Hon. Robert Mbui can support him. Those like myself believe otherwise.

Order, Hon. Leader of the Majority Party. You have made your point.

Let me just finish. I have two points.

I have heard from Hon. Chepkonga.

The honourable Chair of the Committee has also pointed out something very important. That the matter is active before a Committee in which Hon. Kaluma sits.

Hon. Leader of the Majority Party, your time is up. You have made your point. I have heard Hon. Chepkonga. I have also heard from the Chair of the Committee in which Hon. Kaluma is a ranking Member. I think there is something we need to do because this matter was raised here yesterday.

Order, Members. The dispute on numbers is coming from the Majority side, not the Minority side. Hon. Kaluma, I have already ruled that you will have no problem re-taking your Motion if you are confident with it. You will re-take it and we will give the way forward. If not, we will drop it. Yes, we will drop it.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am a student of procedure and process. The Standing Order provisions I rely upon are very clear. It says that when an Adjournment Motion is moved and the number of people who need to stand in support do stand, the matter is allotted time for debate. Hon. Temporary Speaker, you confirmed from your seat that the numbers are there. In fact, you asked whether those people were standing in support and it was confirmed so. You went on to confirm the numbers. It cannot be that you say people were standing not knowing what they were doing, after that determination. I refuse to read or move the Motion again because I have moved and a determination has been made. The only thing the Speaker can direct on is when we are debating.

Order! Order, Hon. Kaluma

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am not doing what I have already done.

Order, Hon. Kaluma. Because I have immense respect for you, I sit with you in the Speaker’s Panel, I have read Standing Order 33(2) and (3). If the numbers were not in question, we would have already allotted time. However, I am also bound to listen to Members and I have heard complaints from both sides. I have given a direction and I will not rescind it. You will take the Motion again because you have confidence that you have the numbers. Then, I will rule without allowing further points of order to the Motion.

Hon. Member, you are not the one moving the Motion. Leader of the Minority Party, I have made the ruling. I have given the Mover another opportunity. Hon. Wandayi, I am very patient with you. However, you will also watch your language. I have given Hon. Kaluma a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

chance to take the Motion again. If anything, that matter is before a Committee where it will be prosecuted and the report brought to the House. Re-take the Motion or bring a report to the House through the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs.

Order, Members. Allow me to recognise students seated in the Public Gallery. They are Happyland Preparatory Primary School from Makadara Constituency in Nairobi County and the Corner Brook Junior School from Juja Constituency in Kiambu County. Please, join me in welcoming them to the House.

I will take points of order, but not on this Motion. Order, Members. We will proceed.

Hon. Members, the Mover has said that he is not willing to re-take the Motion. I gave him the opportunity, but he has said he is not willing to re-take it. If he is not willing to re-take the Motion, we will move on to the next Order.

No. Let me move. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move again.

Member of Parliament for Homa Bay Town, kindly do not take us in circles. You either move it or drop it. Do not take us in circles. If you are moving it, move it. We cannot, however, keep on waiting for you. Move the Motion.

There is a lot of disorder. I urge Members to sit so that I can move.

Hon. Members, can you take your seats? Hon. Catherine Omanyo, Hon Mbui, Hon. Mulyungi, Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, Hon. Mayaka and Hon. Bedzimba, take your seats. Hon. Omanyo and Hon. Kibagendi, move away from the Mace and take your seats.

Just to be on record, we will go back to Order No.6.

Hon. Kaluma.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), I seek leave for the adjournment of the House for purposes of discussing a definite matter of urgent national importance regarding the intended deployment of Kenyan Police officers to the Republic of Haiti on a security intervention mission. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

It has been recently reported in print and electronic media that the Government of the Republic of Kenya is to contribute approximately 1,000 police officers to a multinational force to assist Haiti as the country as it contends with widespread gang violence following approval by United Nations Security Council (UNSC). However, as a country, it is important to approach this issue with utmost consideration, for it raises questions that do not resonate with the primary duty of our National Police Service which is to maintain internal security, law and order. Our police service’s primary duty is to protect its citizens against any internal and external threats. It is vital to recognise the context of Haiti, plagued by decades of violent internal strife and a history of successful coups against its last four presidents. This backdrop adds a layer of complexity to Kenya’s planned foreign intervention mission. We cannot overlook the unfortunate instances where Kenyan police have encountered grave danger while combating insecurity even on home soil. Regrettably, the Government has neither provided clear communication or explanations to Kenyans, nor their representatives in the National Assembly, concerning the mission, the level of training of the officers, scope of their involvement in the mission, and most importantly, the measures in place to ensure their safety and well-being of their families. Of want, there is uncertainty as to whether the Republic of Haiti is a reciprocating country within the meaning of Section 107 of the National Police Service Act to qualify for service of Kenyan Police officers. Article 238(1) underscores the importance of national security, encompassing the protection of our territory and protection of our people. Since the country has been witnessing a surge in insecurity in various parts of the country, it is imperative for the Government to conduct an assessment to ensure that our homeland security is not compromised. This is a matter of utmost importance to our nation and warrants thorough deliberation and careful consideration by this House. It is against this background that I now seek leave for adjournment of the House to discuss this matter of great national concern. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

You have the requisite numbers. The Motion will be allocated time at 6.30 p.m. today. Next Order.

On a point of order.

What is out of order, Hon. Junet?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, with your indulgence, I wanted to give notice of Motion to extend the sitting of the House until the business moved by Hon. Kaluma is concluded. That is a serious business of the House. I give notice of Motion to extend the sitting of the House until midnight tonight.

Hon. Junet, you know that is a Procedural Motion. It has to be on the Order Paper, and it is not there. Order, Members. We hear you, Hon. Junet. However, at 6.30 p.m., we will have adjourned for Motion of Adjournment on a Matter of Urgent National Importance. When the House is already in adjournment, you are not allowed to extend the time. Leader of the Minority Party. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on a slightly unrelated matter, I wish to bring to the attention of the House a matter I would like you to make a determination on. There is a memo or circular that is in wide circulation signed by Mr Felix K. Koskei, Chief of Staff and Head of the Public Service. It is titled, “Suspension of Non- essential Travel.” Without really reading it, its upshot is that the author is giving an advisory. He is purporting to direct various persons and office holders on how to spend money that this House has appropriated, including Parliament, Auditor-General, Controller of Budget, Chief Registrar of the Judiciary, Clerk of the Senate, Clerk of the National Assembly and all governors. Paragraph (v) is on governors of county governments. The author of the circular purports to direct that delegations headed by governors of county governments shall not exceed three persons, including the governor as the head of the delegation and shall remain guided by the tenets of the circular. This country is governed by not only the rule of law, but also constitutionalism. The Constitution of Kenya, 2010 is quite unambiguous. Its drafters were very clear in their intentions. Various arms of Government will remain independent. It is not in the province of somebody calling himself the Chief of Staff of the Executive to purport to direct other arms of Government on how to spend the money this House has appropriated. No person under the sun can direct this House, Judiciary or governors on how to spend money that has been appropriated. It is only this House that has the latitude of directing anyone else by way of appropriation. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want you to direct that this circular is misguided, contemptuous, unconstitutional, improper, illegal, ridiculous and totally out of place.

You have made your point.

If at all this circular is in the records of this House, it should be expunged. More importantly, its author should be directed.

Do you want to be informed?

Let me be informed.

Hon. Junet, why are you not talking?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to be on record.

Give him the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to inform the Leader of the Minority Party that I also came across this circular in the streets of Nairobi. I have never seen a more defective circular from the Executive than this one. We have three arms of Government. We have two governments in one Government which are interdependent, but distinct. We have the devolved government and the national Government. You cannot direct a governor elected by the people of the Republic of Kenya on how to travel and who to carry and not to carry. Governors cannot be managed from State House. That is a fact. The Constitution does not allow that. Parliament cannot be managed by the Executive. The only person who can give directives in Parliament on how we shall travel or not, and what to eat and not to eat, is the Speaker. If we allow…

Hon. Junet, that is enough information for one day.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Leader of the Minority Party, you have made your point. You have 30 seconds. I will give the opportunity to the Leader of the Majority Party and then I will make a ruling.

If this trend is not stopped, this country will turn to the dark jungle days. We have seen in the recent past, State House attempting to manage agencies within ministries and sacking chief executive officers (CEO) of agencies like the Athi Water Works Development Agency. My good friends who were here with us in the last Parliament, Hon. Moses Kuria and Hon. Alice Wahome, were demoted on account of this kind of nonsense.

Order, Leader of the Minority Party. You have made your point. Kindly restrict yourself to the memo. I will give the Leader of the Majority Party two minutes to comment on it and then we will make a way forward.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the issue being raised by the Leader of the Minority Party can seemingly be a very legitimate matter, if the purported circular… Hon. Junet said that he saw it in the streets of Nairobi. I did not see it there. I had the privilege of Hon. Opiyo Wandayi sharing with me a bunch of papers which do not have the Government’s letterhead. Therefore, I cannot ascertain whether this is a circular from there. Secondly, he has said that it was signed by Mr. Felix Koskei. Indeed, these bunch of papers have the name of Mr. Felix K. Koskei without a signature. Therefore, I am constrained as to whether, to begin with, these papers are admissible in the House. We should not comment on issues that are not before the House properly. If Mr. Felix wants to effect anything in Parliament, he can do so only through a properly documented process in line with the laws. It is true that the Head of Public Service cannot direct Parliament. When I read through this bunch of papers, because I can peruse them quickly, there is absolutely nothing touching on Parliament. It talks about cabinet secretaries, principal secretaries and delegations accompanying the President, the Deputy President and the Prime Cabinet Secretary. Paragraph (v) talks about the governors of the county governments. Because it is good to be factual, it says that delegations headed by governors of county government shall not exceed three persons, including the governor as the head of the delegation and shall remain guided by the tenets of Circular No.OP/CAB.1/7A of 26th January 2015. This is eight years ago, when Hon. Opiyo and I were first-time Members of Parliament. We do not have the benefit of sharing that particular circular of 2015 to know whether it came from the summit between the governors and the Executive. Therefore, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I request you to rule that these bunch of papers are inadmissible.

The Leader of the Minority Party animated in moving his…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, please, protect me from Hon. Nimrod who is persuading me to use the word “hot air.” I am trying not to use it.

My good friend, the Leader of the Minority Party, in animated gestures, is doing exactly what he is accusing Mr. Felix Koskei of doing. Mr. Felix Koskei cannot direct the legislature. Equally, the Leader of the Majority Party cannot direct the President of the Republic of Kenya on how to assign and re-assign cabinet secretaries. What is good for the goose, is good for the gander. If we do not want Mr. Felix to direct Parliament – which he has not…

Leader of the Majority Party, you have made your point. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

In conclusion, Mr. Felix Koskei has not directed Parliament, the Judiciary or governors as alluded to the circular of 2015 which has not been tabled.

On a point of order.

Hon. Basil, what is burning?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to conclude.

No. Hon. Basil is on his feet.

Pursuant to which Standing Order?

Pursuant to Standing Order No.95. You need to refer to it. What the Leader of the Majority Party is holding was shared on national television.

Hon. Basil, you are totally out of order. Maybe I need to update you on that. Even if it was shared on television or…

I heard him. Hon. Wamboka stop shouting. Hon. Basil has said that what the Leader of the Majority Party is holding was aired on television. That is still not admissible in this House.

Leader of the Majority Party, kindly finish up.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We must make it customary in line with our traditions and procedures that, when a Member seeks to interrupt another on a point of order, they should do what Hon. Chepkonga has always insisted. Thank you for protecting me from Hon. Basil. We cannot ascertain whether the 2015 circular was pursuant to an agreement in the Summit between the county governors and the Executive.

Please, wind up.

The Leader of the Minority Party should have been kind enough to table that particular circular of 2015.

Hon. Members…

Hon. Junet, you have already prosecuted this matter. Order Members. If this circular is to be presented to this House, it is clear that it has to be through the Speaker or the Clerk of the National Assembly. We should hold our horses. If it gets here, it will be dealt with accordingly.

Hon. Wamuchomba, continue with your Statement. We have to make progress.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation regarding the development of a policy on standardisation and production of school uniforms in the country. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

On 8th March 2023, the House approved a Motion on the development of a policy on standardisation and production of school uniforms in the country. In the Motion, the House noted that the cost of uniforms has continued to escalate becoming prohibitively expensive for the majority of Kenyans with some schools demanding that parents source uniforms from the schools or specific suppliers. Notably, it is now close to seven months since the House made the resolution. However, there seems to be little or no effort being made by the Government to address this matter. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is against this backdrop that I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation on the status of the development of a policy on standardisation and production of school uniforms in the country. Schools are about to go on a long holiday. Students will be going back to school in January 2024. If this issue is not addressed, we are staring at a very serious crisis because the cost of living is very high.

Hon. Gathoni, do not be tempted to add to your Statement.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Let us have the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation. Is he in the House? The Vice-Chairperson? Hon. Raphael Wanjala? Leader of the Majority Party? Sorry, the Committee on Implementation is on the Minority side. So, let us have the Leader of the Minority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I find myself in an unfamiliar territory of undertaking on behalf of people who are not in the House. We have talked about this issue before. Committee chairpersons, their vice-chairpersons and committee Members must be in the House to respond to issues such as what Hon. Wamuchomba has raised. I undertake on behalf of Hon. Raphael Wanjala that the response will come in two weeks. However, this should go to all chairpersons, especially those who belong to the Opposition: You must do your work. You cannot do that by being absent from the House when you are required to be here.

Thank you, Leader of the Minority Party. I know you have all the power to take the necessary action. We expect that response in two weeks. Before we go to the next Statement, allow me to recognise students in the Speaker’s Gallery. 1. Thaara Secondary School from Maragwa Constituency in Murang’a County; 2. The Corner Brook Secondary School, whom I had called out, but they had not come in, from Juja Constituency, Kiambu County. On my behalf and that of the House, we welcome you to observe the proceedings of the House. Thank you.

The next Statement is by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works. Where is the Vice-Chairperson? Any Member of the Committee present? This issue cuts across both sides of the House. Majority Whip, can you undertake to transmit this to the Chairperson? You have to be on record.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As the Leader of the Minority Party has said, it is unfortunate that regardless of the meetings we have had with the committee chairpersons and vice-chairpersons The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

and committing them to make this House a priority, they still do not oblige. I commit and undertake to follow up the matter to its conclusion.

Thank you. Leader of the Majority Party, give your Statement.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am holding brief for the Leader of the Majority Party. I have several Statements to make, including the KeRRA statement that Members have been asking about. However, I will start with the usual Statement by the Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you. You have another Statement? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker. You will recall that there have been concerns regarding the recommendations of the Presidential Working Party on Education Reform. Members raised questions on the reforms that were recommended. With me is the Report by the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Mr Ezekiel Machogu. It is too long for an afternoon read.

Hon. Osoro, because we know the gist of the questions raised by Members, you can table it, but give highlights in terms of the 22 per cent and 10 per cent.

That is on education. I will go to the final one on KeRRA.

Okay.

Hon Temporary Speaker, I do not really wish to read the recommendation because it is long.

Give a summary.

I will say that the Cabinet Secretary and the Ministry have taken note of the concerns raised by Members. Provided in this Report are proposals for possible legislation and amendments that will be brought to this House, of course, through specific committees, for consideration by the whole House. The implementation of the proposed reforms will not take effect up until when the legislation process, through this House, will be complete. I, therefore, beg to table the Report. Finally, Hon. Temporary Speaker…

On a point of order.

What is out of order, Hon. Wamboka?

There were some strangers here who just left when they saw me rise on a point of order. I do not know who they are.

Order, Hon. Wamboka. This place accommodates our Clerks-at-the-Table, especially when we are headed to Committee of the whole House.

They are supposed to be in uniform.

Hon Wamboka, I assure you that we have no strangers in the House. Hon. Osoro, please, proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. You can indulge Hon. Wamboka. Officers that are supposed to be in uniform are the Sergeant- at-Arms. They are donning their green attire. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to table that Report on education.

Allow me to now make a Statement on the KeRRA question that was raised by Members. It is short; I can read it.

Thank you. The Chairperson, Transport and Infrastructure Committee, do you want to comment on the Statement?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support the Statement by the Leader of the Majority Party. I would like to thank Members of this House for supporting the Committee's Report on reduction of KeRRA ceilings and assure Members that the Committee that I head will ensure that resources meant for our roads are safeguarded. I know there are some Members who are asking about allocations for the Financial Year 2023/2024. The proposal to reduce the ceiling has not affected allocations for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and, therefore, the allocations still remain. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

In the Statement Hon. Silvanus Osoro has read on behalf of the Leader of the Majority Party, the Principal Secretary for Roads, Transport and Public Works, has indicated that 50 per cent has already been sent to KeRRA. With that, I think it is about Ksh11 billion which will be transmitted to our regions in the coming days. The Leader of the Majority Party has indicated that in the 2025/2026 Financial Year, the allocation will go up to about Ksh69.060 million per constituency, and the following year will go up to Ksh72 million per constituency. I would like to bring to the attention of Members that these particular allocations are projected, they are not actual. They can slightly go up or down. It is important for Members to note that. Thank you, Hon. Members for supporting that Report. I know we were all anxious. We were assertive enough not to allow the other agencies to interfere with the allocations for our constituencies.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support.

Thank you, Hon. Chairperson. We have put that matter to rest.

The Chairperson of the Select Committee on National Government-Constituencies Development Fund.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the National Government Constituency Development Fund on three (3) Constituency Committees laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, October 4th 2023, and pursuant to the provisions of Sections 43(1) and 43(2) of the National Government Constituency Development Fund Act, 2015, approves the list of nominees for appointment to the following three (3) Constituency Committees of the National Government Constituency Development Fund––

Hon. Chepkonga.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I stand to second, but some Members here are telling me to cite Standing Order 95. Surely! Can I do that while seconding? This tells you that we have a problem in this House. Members have refused to learn the Standing Orders. Standing Order 83 is very clear. These are our own Standing Orders which we passed. It behoves every Member whenever they stand, to quote the Standing Order in which they are rising on. In fact, I am very surprised with the Leader of the Minority Party who is a third-termer, when he shouts and says, ‘Point of order, Madam Speaker’ in a very menacing manner thinking that that is a point of order. That is not a point of order. A point of order is that you must quote the Standing Order you are standing on.

There is no point for us Members of Parliament to approve the Standing Orders and then we are in breach. I suggest that when we amend the Standing Orders in future, we must provide for a penalty for misbehaviour. The problem is that these Standing Orders do not provide for a penalty, so that it becomes a deterrent to people from misbehaving.

I second.

We have Standing Order 107 all the way, for any disorderly conduct. Did you second?

Yes, I already seconded.

Okay.

Put the Question.

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Next Order.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, please take your seats. We are in the Committee of the whole House to consider the National Rating Bill (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2022), among others.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): There is an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Hon. Wilberforce, you may proceed with your amendment.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1)— (a) by deleting subparagraph (a) (i) and substituting therefore the following new subparagraph— “(i) an adoptive legislation to be domesticated by a County Assembly for the purpose of imposing property taxes as contemplated in Article 209 (1)(a) of the Constitution and the processing of adopting this Act by the County Assembly; and” (b) by deleting paragraph (c) and substituting therefore the following new paragraph— “(c) provide for the role of the National Land Commission as provided for under Article 67(2)(g) of the Constitution in respect of standardisation of the details that constitute a valuation roll and a supplementary roll, as the case may be, and as repository of all valuation rolls and supplementary valuation rolls and struck rate and any other necessary information relating to rating in Kenya” Just for record purposes, after consulting the legal team, allow me to drop my amendment under part (a). I wish to prosecute the amendment in part (b) as indicated on the Order Paper.

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The import of the amendment is that the power or authority to assess rates and impose taxes on land and property is vested in the National Land Commission (NLC) as per the provisions of Article 67(2)(g) of the Constitution of Kenya.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): There is an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. There is also another proposed amendment by the Leader of the Majority Party. We will start with the amendment by Hon. Oundo.

(Funyula, ODM)

Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): There is another amendment by the Leader of the Majority Party. Proceed, Hon. Chepkonga.

Ainabkoi, UDA): Hon. Temporary Chairlady, on behalf of the Leader of the Majority Party, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “except freehold agricultural land” immediately after the word ‘government’.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Nyikal.

(Seme, ODM)

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Chepkonga.

Ainabkoi, UDA): Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. We are exempting freehold agricultural land.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much, Hon. Chepkonga. I do not see any other interest in this.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): There are amendments by the Leader of the Majority Party and Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. We will start with the one by the Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Chepkonga.

Ainabkoi, UDA): Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the words “whether freehold or” appearing in paragraph (a) immediately after the word ‘holds’. This is a consequence of the amendment to Clause 5, which we have approved.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Is there interest by Hon. Nyikal?

(Seme, ODM)

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Yes, we are at Clause 8, Hon. (Dr) Nyikal.

I am at Clause 8, that it be amended by… The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, I think you are referring to Hon. Oundo’s amendment. At the moment we are dealing with the amendment proposed by Hon. Chepkonga.

Correct.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, I will now put the Question.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): I would like to give an opportunity to Hon. Oundo. You may proceed with your amendments.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended — (a) in sub-clause (1)— (i) by deleting the words “and there is an intention to confer ownership” appearing in paragraph (a) immediately after the words “twenty-one years”. (ii) by inserting the words “including the corporation” immediately after the expression “2020” appearing in paragraph (f). (b) inserting the following paragraph immediately after paragraph (h) — No 27 (i) community land management committee in of 2016

respect of land reserved for urban development under section 13 (3)(e) and a member or a group of members granted exclusive use of community land under section 27 of the Community Land Act. (c) in subclause (2), (i) by deleting the word “and” appearing in paragraph (b); (ii) inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph(c) — “(d) ensure that the value of the property is not diminished on account of failure to repair and maintain the property to acceptable standards or undertake a land use that impairs the value of the property; and (e) provide a permanent address for the purpose of submitting any notices and correspondences in respect of the rateable property and rateable owner at the date of the valuation of the property for rating purposes and notify the county government of any change in the address during the currency of the valuation rolls.” Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I would like to explain to my colleagues so that they can understand. I am sure Hon. Murugara will easily understand because this is purely a matter of law and practise. I want you to listen carefully, the Sectional Properties Act Part I(2) reads:

“(2) In respect of land held on freehold or on a leasehold where the unexpired residue of the term is not less that twenty-one years and there is an intention to confer ownership.” The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I am saying we delete “and there is an intention to confer ownership”. So, as to solve the long-term leasehold issues by county governments or municipal authorities. Those who own those properties are rateable owners. So, the county governments do not lose rateable revenue by virtue of the fact that there is no intention to confer ownership.

Generally, if you issue a lease of 21 years, it is like uninterrupted occupation. That is why I am requesting that we consider removing the words “and there is an intention to confer ownership”. It is superfluous and does not add anything. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, allow me to enlighten my colleagues about the second part of Clause 8(1)(f). Under the Sectional Properties Act passed in 2020, it created three distinct owners of properties under any scheme. One, is the unit owner who is registered in their name. Then, all the common areas, be it areas reserved for schools, churches, shopping centres, playing fields, restaurants, among others are registered in the name of the corporation. So, by excluding the corporation, we are denying the county governments an immense amount of revenue. In many places, if you look at the site coverage you will find that we are talking about 30 or 50 per cent. So, the remaining 50 per cent is under the corporation. Hon. Members, if you deny this amendment, we are literary hurting income to be generated by these people. The third amendment to clause 8(1)(h) is the issue of the Community Land Management Committee. If you look at the Community Land Act, that is why we should legislate because we are not in a political contest. Let us legislate!

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Oundo, you have made your point. Thank you very much.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, allow me to mention the issue of the community land. Looking at the Community Land Act, it creates three ownership styles. It states that the community land committee will give land to any of the members to develop commercial services. This cannot go without rating being imposed. There is nothing new or complicated here. It is just a very simple matter.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you. You have made your point. I will give opportunity to one other Member. Hon. Osoro.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I have gone through the amendments by Hon. Oundo. I want to convince him because whatever he has proposed is answered in the…

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Osoro, please, take your seat so that I can propose the Question.

Hon. Osoro, you may proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. Hon. Oundo seeks to include corporation under Section 8(f) of the Sectional Properties Act, 2020. He wants to include the word ‘corporation’ because he believes that space is left hanging or not rateable. That very question is under clause 8(I)(h) on a beneficial owner who is receiving profits and rent from rateable property. The corporation is in-charge of the entire sectional property. So, they are beneficial within that area and receive rent. He should not make a repetition by including the word 'corporation’.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you for the explanation. Let us have the last Member speaking on this amendment. Please, take one minute, Hon. (Dr) Nyikal.

This is an extremely important amendment showing what is happening in the country, which was not happening previously. Previously, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

they were referred to as ‘flats’ but nowadays people buy homes in flats but the common areas are left alone. The corporation owns those common areas. Even if Hon. Oundo’s amendment sounds repetitive, it makes sense since the common areas are not owned by individuals. They should be liable to taxation. We are building affordable houses and a majority of them will be flats, which will have common areas…

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you Hon. Nyikal, you have also made your point.

So, we will not lose anything if we incorporate Hon. Oundo’s amendments. I support.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, I will now put the Question.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, we have some amendments on this clause. The first one is by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands. Hon. Nyamoko, please proceed.

Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, clause 12 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (3) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause— “(3) The Cabinet Secretary may, in consultation with the National Land Commission, prescribe guidelines on the royalties to be paid on natural resources, forestry land and products obtained from natural resources and forestry land for purposes of rating.” Hon. Temporary Chairlady, what we are trying to do here is just to tidy up the main Clause as it appears in the principal Act. We are paraphrasing it to have clarity.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): Thank you, Hon. Nyamoko.

( Question, that the words to be left out

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(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): We have another amendment by Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, clause 12 of the Bill be amended — (a) by deleting subclause (4) and substituting therefor the following new subclause — “(4). The Cabinet Secretary shall, in consultation with the National Land Commission and the Council of Governors, make regulations for effective implementation of this section.” (b) inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (4)— “(5) The County Executive Member may make regulations to supplement the regulations under subsection (4) and any regulation under this subsection shall not conflict with guidelines prescribed under subsection (3).” Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I recognise the fact that rating is a mandate of the county governments, as provided for in the Constitution. What I am proposing is just to tidy it up. The Bill says, under subclause (4): “The Cabinet Secretary may make regulations forfeiting the implementation of this section.’ What I am proposing is that the Cabinet Secretary shall, in consultation with the National Land Commission and the Council of Governors, make regulations for effective implementation of this section.” Following a discussion I have had with the legal team, I drop part (b) of my proposed amendment and request that part (a) be carried because it relates to what the Constitution provides. Thank you.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): I understand that you have just dropped a part of your proposed amendments.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): Hon. Oundo. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, clause 14 of the Bill be amended — (a) in subclause (1), by deleting the words “in the Finance Act of the relevant financial year for consideration” and substituting therefore the expression “in the first Finance Act during the currency of the Valuation Roll provided for under Section 29 of this Act”; (b) in subclause (2), by inserting the words “projected economic performance during the period when the rate struck will apply immediately after the words “prevailing economic situation”; (c) by inserting the following new sub-clauses immediately after subclause (3)— “(4). In setting up the rate struck, the County Committee Member shall ensure that there is adequate public participation. (5) Upon approval by the County Assembly of the rate struck, the County Executive Member responsible for finance shall notify the National Land Commission in the prescribed form.” Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the import is to avoid this cumbersome process of setting a new rate every year. The rate should only be set once and reviewed within the period of the currency of the Valuation Roll for purposes of planning, order and organisation. Secondly, in setting the rate, the County Committee shall ensure that there is adequate public participation. That is what the proposed amendments to Clause 14 are talking about.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): There is an amendment by the Departmental Committee on Lands. Hon. Nyamoko, proceed.

Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, clause 17 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (8) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clauses— “(8) A county government shall enact legislation and make regulations prescribing rates payable under this section. (9) A county government that acts in accordance with subsection (8) shall consider – (a) the percentages of remission to be offered; (b) instances where remission of a percentage of the rates payable may be granted; and, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(c) instances where remission of the whole of the rates payable may be granted.” Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the reason for redrafting this Clause is to fine-tune it for clarity.

( Question, that the words to be left out

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): There is an amendment by the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands. Hon. Chairman, proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, clause 18 of the Bill be amended – (a) by deleting sub-clause (1) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause— “(1) Each county government shall prescribe criteria for grant of discounts and waivers on partial or whole of the payable interest and penalty rates due to it by the rateable owner through legislation. (b) by deleting sub-clause (2) and substituting therefor the following new subclause— (2) A county government that acts in accordance with subsection (1) shall consider – (a) rateable owners who make timely payment and are consistent; (b) the specification on the maximum percentage of rates that may be discounted or waived; (c) the period in relation to which the discount or waiver is to be considered for; (d) the circumstances to be considered; and (e) the procedure to be applicable for one to seek for a discount or waiver. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, we have redrafted this clause to clean it up.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): Hon. Pukose.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I stand to support this amendment because we have seen county governments giving waivers and discounts. It is clear that each county government can rate. The value of land within the various The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

counties is not the same. It varies from one area to another. Therefore, counties can legislate and give their discounts based on the value of land in their respective areas. So, this is a good amendment. Thank you.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai’): Hon. (Dr) Nyikal.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I know the proposed amendment will be carried as it is. However, some of us have not stayed in the House to oppose amendments but to understand them. Tomorrow, when each and every one of us will be walking on the streets after passing this Bill, we may be asked whether we understood what it says. Therefore, we have a right to get clarification. In fact, what Hon. Pukose has said makes more sense. However, proposing to make a change by creating a whole list cannot be justified by saying you are redrafting the Clause. It is important for the Chair to tell us that they are proposing an amendment for this or that purpose. That is important. I feel like supporting this proposal but I need to understand it. Thank you.

( Question, that the words to be left out

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. You may proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (d) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph— No.6 of 2021 No.5 of 1996

‘(d) auction the rateable property at the market value in a manner that complies with Sections 96 and 97(3) of the Land Act, the Auctioneers Act, and prescribed regulations”

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the amendment to subclause (3)(d) deals with auctioning of properties of a rateable owner who has defaulted to pay the rates. All I am doing is to make it very clear that when you auction the property, you must do it at a certain threshold, which is contained under Sections 96 and Section 97 of the Land Act. However, they only relate to cases where a borrower has defaulted to pay. Since we have set the standard, I want to convince my colleagues that this is a neater way of doing it. If we subject it to auction, let the reserve price be the one contemplated in the Land Act. That is the neater way to do it.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Chepkonga. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, what Hon Oundo is saying is self-defeating. If you subject a ratepayer like me to Sections 96 and 97 of the Land Act, it means I am equal to a person who has borrowed money from a bank. I have not borrowed money but I have just defaulted to pay the rates. You cannot say that the conditions of a loan defaulter are equivalent to that of a rates defaulter. That is not true. It is inconsistent in law.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much.

Give me one minute, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): I will give you one minute.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I think Hon. Chepkonga has not read the Land Act. Sections 96 and 97 of the Land Act say there is a price which you can sell a property at when auctioned. If you leave it open, people will connive with others and sell it at an auction at a throwaway price. I am just safeguarding the rightful owner of the property.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): You have made your point. Proceed, Hon. Atandi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. We are not here as Members of the Opposition but to make these laws comfortable for all Kenyans. I want to plead with the leadership of the Government side. The amendment that Hon. Oundo has proposed is very important. Let me give you an example. One of my pieces of land was auctioned in Siaya because I had not paid land rates. It was sold at a throwaway price and somebody bought it. One of my opponents wanted it. If the proposed reserve price was in the law then, I would have saved it. I want to plead with Members on the Government side. I know that Hon. Osoro is the commander-in-chief here. Please, allow this amendment to pass.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Atandi. Hon. Benjamin Lang’at will be the last Member to contribute to this amendment.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I wanted to contribute to the previous one.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Nyikal, you have one minute. what is it?

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, two pieces of land are being auctioned. One is because somebody borrowed money and you are now tying it to the loan or whatever was borrowed. Therefore, you are putting a reserve price. What you are really protecting, to a large extent, is the bank. Is it not? The other side is a citizen who has not borrowed but has just defaulted to pay rates. His or her land is being auctioned. Colleagues, are we really saying that person does not need to be protected by a reserve price, even if that money is going to the government?

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you. You have made your point. The last contribution is by Hon. Osoro.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I do not know what clarity Hon. Oundo wants to get in this particular proposal. The The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Bill proposes 60 days demand. I do not even understand how favourable this can be. You have still failed to pay the rates. Then you have been told that the auction of the rateable property will be sold at current market value. In other words, if you feel that somebody has undervalued your property, there are other court procedures that you can follow to recover your amount. However, it is the current market value. You cannot sell my house that is worth Ksh40 million at Ksh20 million because my opponent has told you to do so.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): You have made your point.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, this Clause has some amendments. One is by the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Lands. Proceed, Hon. Nyamoko.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (3) by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefore the following new paragraph— “(b) have a minimum experience of seven years in valuation from the date the person was registered by the Valuers Registration Board.”

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, this is just to satisfy Dr Nyikal. This Clause talks about qualification of valuers. In the principal Bill, there were some issues which were a bit ambiguous. That is what we cleaned up. It contains the actual substance.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Nyikal, you have one minute.

I support the amendment. When a good amendment is proposed, we support it. What is being done is now clear.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Nyikal. Hon. Members, in the interest of time, we can now proceed.

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Hon. Members, we have another amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Proceed.

In view of the Committee’s amendment that has just been passed, my amendment to Clause 21 is no longer necessary.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by Hon. Oundo. Please, proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended in Sub Clause (2) by deleting the words “private valuer” and substituting therefor the words “a valuer who is not a public officer”.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I need my colleagues and the Chairperson to listen. We have no provision for registration of valuers, either private or public. I am proposing that for neatness, instead of referring to a private valuer, we simply say, ‘‘a valuer who is not a public officer.’’

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Oundo.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, Clause 23 has an amendment by Hon. Oundo. Please proceed.

Just as we were doing during the Sugar Bill, can you give us two minutes to consult?

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Yes, I will. First of all…

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On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Chepkonga, what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the Committee conducted public participation, pursuant to Article 118 of the Constitution of Kenya.

Although my very good friend, Hon. Oundo, has a right to bring amendments here, for purposes of good record, he should have gone to the Committee to present them. He is a friend of the Committee. If he is able to convince them, we can have a seamless Act. Otherwise, we will have things that are perched here that are not consistent with the Act itself.

It is important that when we have amendments, we consult the Chairpersons of the Committees. For instance, I have an amendment to the Statutory Instruments Act. It will be in bad faith to bring an amendment when the Committee has exhaustively discussed and agreed on them. It is only fair that you consult the Chair of the Committee.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Oundo, we have given you two minutes and they are over. Do I add you one more minute to consult?

Hon. Wilberforce, please make a decision on Clause 23. Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the valuation for rating is what we call central valuation and is a professional practice. So, my amendment to Clause 23 seeks to put very clear procedures and how it goes to the end; who sets the practice slots? How is it regulated? That is all I am saying. There is nothing that probably infringes on anybody’s rights. I am simply saying that the valuation roll shall be prepared in accordance to the relevant laws, defining the property and the location.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you. Would you like to move your amendments as per the Order Paper?

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 23 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub- clauses immediately after subclause (2)— (3) The valuation roll and supplementary valuation roll shall be prepared No 3 of 2012 No 27 of 2016 and presented in a manner that complies with sections provided for under No 21 of 2020 section 6 of the Land Registration Act, sections 13 (3)(e) and 27 of the

Community Land Act, and sections 4(5), 7(1)(a) and (d), and 7(4)(a), (b) and (d), and the Sectional Properties Act. (4) The County Land Registrar and the County Executive Committee Member responsible for land matters shall facilitate the valuer to prepare the County Integrated Land Information Management System that shall integrate information in the lands registry for each land registration section required The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

under section 23(3) with the valuation roll and supplementary valuation roll on real time, subject to compliance with the provisions of Data Protection Act. (5) The County Executive Committee Member shall, in consultation with the County Land Registrar and Director of Survey, ensure that all land dispositions relating to transfer, subdivision and amalgamation are captured real time. (6) The National Land Commission shall make Regulations for effective setting up of the various Integrated County Land Information Management System and its continuous updating to ensure that it is real time.”

We have an amendment by the Chairperson of the Committee on Lands. Proceed, Hon. Nyamoko.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended— (a) by deleting sub-clause (1) and substituting the following new sub- clause: “(1) A valuer who is preparing a draft valuation roll or a draft supplementary valuation roll, shall have the power — (a) to enter into or upon any rateable property at all reasonable time between eight o’clock in the forenoon and five o’clock in the afternoon for purposes of inspecting any land within the area of the county government in respect of which a rate on the value of the land is, or is to be, imposed; (b) to inspect and make extracts from all land registers and other records or any deeds or instruments belonging to or in the custody or possession of any public officer or any other person in which are contained particulars of any land, whether that person is or is not interested in the land; (c) to inquire from an occupier of a rateable property questions on matters that may be necessary to enable the valuer to correctly value that property; and, (d) to require, by notice in writing, the rateable owner or occupier of any land to provide the valuer with information regarding the rateable property which the valuer reasonably requires for purposes of valuing the property.”

(b) by deleting sub-clause (2). (c) by deleting sub-clause (3). The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(d) in sub-clause (4), by deleting the word “particulars” and substituting therefor the word “information". The purpose for this amendment is just to reconfigure and paraphrase the actual Act to provide clarity.

This one has some amendments by the Departmental Committee on Lands and also by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. I will start with the one by the Chairperson of the Committee on lands. You may proceed Hon. Nyamoko.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, clause 25 of the Bill be amended by— (a) deleting the word “Guidelines” appearing in sub-clause (2), and substituting therefor the word “guidelines"; (b) deleting sub-clause (5) and substituting therefor the following new subclause— “(5) The Cabinet Secretary shall, in consultation with the Council of Governors make regulations for — (a) harmonizing and standardizing valuation rolls and rating on rateable areas across counties; (b) intergovernmental rating and valuation standards and procedures.” (c) deleting sub-clause (6). Hon. Temporary Chairlady, there is just one word which had capital letters instead of small letters. That is what we redrafted and claimed. So, there is nothing. There is no change in the substance of that particular Clause.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much.

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I would like to now give opportunity to Hon. Oundo to move a further amendment.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, my amendment is largely addressed by the Committee’s amendments. So, I drop my amendments to Clause 25.

Clause 27

Hon. Members, this one has an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Please, proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, it is truly unfortunate looking at it. However, I want this to be very clear as I request the Chair. I know you told me you did not have a chance to look at this but to be honest, I can tell you for sure if you look at Clause 27 in the Bill is very narrow. It basically makes areas within our county governments which shall be rateable areas for the purposes of this Act. My amendment expands the definition and creates a very clear procedure on determining a ‘rateable owner’ and gives a chance for any way that the county government, through public participation, can change. If you look at it, rating is emotive and needs a very clear procedure. I make reference to Urban Areas and Cities Act, 2019 and all other processes that we have practised in the past. On this amendment, I beseech for your support, colleagues and the Whip of the Majority Party. Even if you ask the Chairman, I am sure that he will not have any problem.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Oundo, move your amendment first.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 27 and substituting therefor the following new clause—

Declaration of

rateable areas. 27(1). The County Executive Member shall designate the following areas within the county as rateable areas for the purposes of imposing property taxes on— No. 13 of 2011 (a) all properties contained in the specified land registry that falls within areas designated as urban areas under the Urban Areas and Cities Act; No. 13 of 2019 (b) all properties whose change of user has been granted from agricultural to uses that are not agricultural user in pursuance of the provisions of Physical Planning and Land Use Act; The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(c) all properties under commercial agriculture and ranching as the County Executive Member responsible for agriculture may so advice the County Executive member responsible for lands; (d) all properties under private and community wildlife sanctuary use; (e) any other properties whose rateable owner has converted to any form of developments and occupancy arrangements that generates rental income to the rateable owner; (f) all land registered under the Community Land Act that is reserved for urban development and granted to a member and/or group of members for use that would qualify the referenced property as a rateable property; or any other properties as the County Assembly may approve by a resolution of simple majority. (2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), a County Executive Member responsible for matters relating to land may declare any area or property as a rateable area and rateable property with approval of a County Assembly. (3) A County Executive Member responsible for matters relating to land shall submit the declaration of rateable area and rateable property to the National Land Commission before the commencement of the valuation for rating purposes in the prescribed form.”

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): May I proceed to put the Question? Hon. Osoro.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, just a minute. For clarity purposes, it is important for Members to know that Clause 27 says: “All areas within a county government shall be rateable areas for purposes of this Act.” What is debatable on this? Earlier, when Hon. Oundo proposed a certain amendment, I think to Section 3, he raised questions with regard to spaces within sectional properties. Now you have the answer in Clause 27. You do not need to do further amendments again. You have even stated yourself that you have gone through the Urban Areas and Cities Act, 2019 and everything that involves matters to do with urban areas. Please, just drop the amendment.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Osoro. Hon. Members, I would like to put the question.

Let me hear from Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I want to inform the general public that leaving the clause as it is will mean that the only instances that rating will be excluded are as per those amendments as carried by the majority: freehold agricultural land. So, if in your village you own leasehold titles for a certain number of years, it means that even if it is agricultural land, if we do not carry this amendment, it will be rated. It means even the smallest person in the smallest village will be levied taxes on land. That is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

the import of what Hon. Osoro is saying. In essence, that is the import of what we are carrying here.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Oundo. The last Member will be Hon. Chepkonga.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I do not know why Hon. Oundo is belabouring this point. First and foremost, his proposed amendment is defective. He says the County Executive Committee Member shall. Which CECM? We have CECMs in charge of finance, lands and many other departments. Which one is this that he is talking about?

(Hon. (Dr). Rachael Nyamai): You have made your point. Hon. Nyikal, I give you one minute.

Hon. Chepkonga knows very well where to get these definitions. He is just pulling your leg. I will just say that I see what Hon. Oundo is saying. This is because recently in my constituency, there was a big issue when the county government started rating land. They went to markets and even to people’s villages. Even when you are building in your own land, they ask you about rates. I hear him but what I may say is that if this provision is somewhere in the details, then it can come under regulations. So, Hon. Chepkonga and all the other experts, if this provision comes under regulations it will actually help because Hon. Oundo has a point. That may be a saving grace. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Nyikal. Hon. Members, I now put the question.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I beg to move:

THAT, clause 29 of the Bill be amended by —

(a) deleting the word “five” appearing in sub clause (1) and substituting

therefor the word “seven”; (b) deleting the word “two” appearing in sub clause (2) and substituting

therefor the word “three” I am just increasing the period of the valuation roll from five years to seven years, considering the cost of preparing a valuation roll and the process involved. I am asking the Committee to agree with me because it is costly, cumbersome and it is also to avoid encumbering the county governments. I know it because I have done it.

(Hon. (Dr). Rachael Nyamai): Thank you very much, Hon. Oundo. You have given the justification for your amendment. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Osoro, you get the first chance.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The fear by Hon. Oundo has already been answered under Clause 29(2) which says that the county government may extend the life of the valuation roll and supplementary roll for a period not exceeding two years. That fear has been answered. The county assembly can extend by two years. You do not need to have it.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Osoro.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Please proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, this is just a follow-up to the amendments I had made in Clause 25. In view that Clause 25 was not carried, there is no need to prosecute amendment on Clause 30 because it was a consequential amendment to Clause 25. Even though it contains fair and very good proposals, we rejected it. Time will tell. At least, I will go on record that I told the nation the correct thing but we did not carry it. Thank you.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Let me propose the question.

It is dropped.

In view of the loss of the amendment on Clause 25, there is no need of carrying Clause 30.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): That is clear.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by the Chairman of the Departmental Committee of Lands. Proceed, Hon. Nyamoko.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I beg to move:

THAT, clause 31 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (1) and substituting therefor following new sub-clause: The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

31. A county government may alter a valuation roll or supplementary

Alterations of the roll— valuation roll and (a) to correct a clerical error or omission not affecting the rateable supplementary valuation roll.

value; (b) to correct an error as to, or recording a change in the

name of an occupier or rateable owner; or

(c) to correct an error in the description or address of a rateable

property.

We have redrafted that clause and cleaned it up without changing the substance of the principal clause.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, we have two amendments. One is by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands, and the other one by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. We will start with the proposed amendment by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands. You may proceed, Hon. Nyamoko.

(North Mugirango, UDA)

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill be amended in subclause (4) by deleting the expression “Chief Government Valuer” and substituting therefor the expression “National Land Commission”. Under Article 67(2)(g) of the Constitution of Kenya, the power and mandate to assess taxes on land and premiums on immovable properties in any area designated by law is a constitutional responsibility of the NLC. That matter is not even debatable. Any competent court will overturn that matter if you argue otherwise. I urge the Chairperson to stick to the Constitution. Let us not be the House that broke the Constitution of Kenya.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 36 of the Bill be amended in subclause (5) by deleting the expression “Cabinet Secretary” and substituting therefor the expression “National Land Commission”. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Even though we have not agreed to my proposed amendment to Clause 32, I want to go on record. The Article of the Constitution that I referred to states that that mandate squarely belongs to the NLC and not to the Cabinet Secretary. That is why I propose to delete the words “Cabinet Secretary” and replace them with the words “National Land Commission.”

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Oundo, have you withdrawn your amendment?

No! I have moved it. The import of the amendment is to comply with the provisions of Article 67 of the Constitution of Kenya.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have an amendment by Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Please proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, clause 56 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (5) by deleting the words “Cabinet Secretary” and substituting therefor the words “National Land Commission”.

This is to put into perspective that the authority which is the subject matter is as per Article 67 of the Constitution, a preserve or mandate of the National Land Commission. That is why we are saying wherever there is reference to the Cabinet Secretary, we replace with the National Land Commission. Thank you.

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(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): We have some amendments on clause 2 by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands. Please proceed Hon. Nyamoko.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chair. I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 2 by: (a) deleting the definition of “improved site value”. (b) deleting the definition of “improvement value” (c) deleting the definition of “exclusion” Under (a), the phrase “improved site” is defined but not used in the main Bill. Under (b), we are deleting the definition of “improvement value”. The phrase is defined but not used in the Bill. Under (c), by deleting the definition of “exclusion”. The term is defined but not used in the Bill. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chair.

Thank you very much, Hon. Chairperson.

We will now proceed to the amendment by the Hon. Wilberforce Oundo. Please, proceed.

Hon. Temporary Chair, just in the same vein as the Chair of the Committee has indicated, there are a few amendments I proposed. I want to drop most of them, save for two. The one in reference to property and the other under (d). Chair, allow me to refer to property. I beg to move: THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended— (c) by inserting the following new definition in its proper alphabetical sequence: “property” means the collection of rights that are enjoyed by virtue of owning land. There is extensive reference to the term property in the Bill yet property is not defined.

Just for clarity, Hon. Oundo, have you dropped everything save for the last sentence?

No. I have not dropped everything. Let me just give a guide. When we look at my amendment under Clause 2 on page 1355, there is what is labelled (a), (b) and (c). I have dropped all of the amendments on that page. When you go to page 1356, the one referencing county assembly has also been dropped because that was already dropped. When you go to the one referring to ‘property”, what I am saying is that “property” has been extensively mentioned or referred to in the Bill but it is not defined. The definition I am proposing here is the typical definition that we use in the profession. I am also dropping the term “improvements” because they have dropped improvement. So, I am only retaining the definition of property. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chair.

Thank you.

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(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the National Rating (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2022) and its approval thereof with amendments.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Thank you, Hon. Osoro.

Hon. Members, we will now move to the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) (National Assembly Bill No.60 of 2022). Whip of the Majority Party.

THE STATUTE LAW (MISCELLANEOUS AMENDMENTS) BILL (National Assembly Bill No.60 of 2022)

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I seek the indulgence of this House, considering a lot of proposals and interest in this matter, that we defer the Bill to next week when we resume.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Okay. Hon. Members, I agree to the request by the Whip of the Majority Party. We now move to reporting.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the National Rating (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2022) and approved the same with amendments.

Mover. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Teresia Wanjiru to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

Who is seconding?

Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second.

Whip of the Majority Party, are you on a point of order?

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

I have not given you the microphone.

Sorry.

Are you on a point of order? Give the microphone to the Whip of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order 53(3), I beg that you defer putting of the Question to another sitting.

Hon. Oundo.

Thank you. Indeed, we have concluded the Committee of the whole House. He needs to go on record. I will raise the matter at an appropriate time. Standing Orders say constitutional matters can be raised at any time before the conclusion of a Bill. I do not know exactly where it is but they can assist me. Because of the so-called tyranny of numbers, we have passed an unconstitutional provision in the Bill. At the appropriate time before the Third Reading, we will have to raise that constitutional matter. Luckily enough, we have the weekend to research and present a position on the Floor. Thank you.

Hon. Eric Muchangi, do you want to say something?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the matter will be decided by the courts.

Which matter will be decided by the court? Hon. Muchangi, are you done?

The matter of whether the issues we discussed here are constitutional or not.

Okay. Give Hon. Nyikal the microphone. In the meantime, could the Whip of the Majority Party approach the Chair?

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Akin to what Hon. Oundo has said, I also noticed some unconstitutional matters. I appeal to us to note that he also raised some important issues. There is a provision to look at them even over the weekend or later. That is where he brought up matters of details that can go into Regulations. When we come, it would help if those matters were listed to show what a Cabinet Secretary could do regulations over. That is my point, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Mbai.

It is in response to what Hon. Oundo has said. I just want to go on record that the Committee of the whole House has not passed anything unconstitutional.

Is that Hon. Benjamin Lang’at?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank Members for passing this very good Bill. As to whether there is unconstitutionality or not, I think we have agreed that is a subject of another body. That can be decided elsewhere. I thank Members who have spoken. Unfortunately, our friend Hon. Oundo has done great research but may have failed in the process. We would not be having the problem we have now if he had got to the Committee and had these amendments accepted by the Committee.

Hon. Murugara.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I think this House is now functus. There is nothing left apart from taking a decision as to whether this Bill can be read a Third Time. That is the only option left for Hon. Oundo—to have it rejected at the Third Reading. That is the vote to be taken after this. Having gone through all the processes and votes taken, there is nothing much to do. The only other option he has is to approach the Head of State, the President of the Republic of Kenya, and tell him not to assent to the Bill but to return it to us with the observations he has made. That is if we succeed in having the Bill read a Third Time. Once he does that, again, the Bill dies because we may not be able to raise the two-thirds. If the President assents to this, the only other option he has is to move the House for amendments or take it to court for a decision. For now, I believe we are functus.

Whip of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This is a House of debate. It is unfortunate that sometimes when we are making laws, some people do not come to the House to make contributions. Hon. (Dr) Oundo has done a good job. He has made his contributions even in the Committee of the whole House. I also thank all the Members. However, the majority had their way and the minority had their say.

Your question was on the subsidiary legislation, but I invite you to acquaint yourself with who has the legal mandate to make subsidiary or delegated legislation. It cannot be the National Land Commission (NLC). We can have that debate outside the Plenary. In case the issue is unconstitutional as you have put it, there are other avenues and other arms of Government that deal with that. From where I sit, you had your say but the majority had their way.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Leader of the Minority Party, you may proceed.

My friend, I could have been following you from wherever I was. You know I am versatile. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Murugara, the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party take precedence whenever they come in and request to speak. You have to wait until they speak.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for your timely protection. Hon. Osoro, the Majority Whip has just said here that whether whatever we have passed is unconstitutional or not, other avenues can be explored to deal with it. This House can never be seen to be acting in vain. It does not matter if he was responding to whoever. What matters is what he has said.

You cannot inform me.

Leader of the Minority Party do you want to be informed by the Majority Whip?

Certainly not.

This is a serious House. It is an assembly of the people of Kenya. It represents our sovereignty as a people. We cannot be seen to be acting in vain. The issues raised by my friend Hon. (Dr) Oundo and others about the constitutionality of what we have passed are too grave to be trivialised in the manner we are doing. I heard the Member for Runyenjes say that the courts will deal with it. For purposes of record, as Azimio la Umoja One Kenya Coalition, we stand for the rule of law, constitutionalism and decency in all aspects. We can, therefore, not associate ourselves with what has taken place this evening in this House. We totally dissociate ourselves from it. For the record and prosperity, as I conclude, this House must retrace its steps, otherwise, history might judge us very harshly. I rest my case.

On a point of order.

Hon. Millie, what is out of order? I want to rule on the request by the Majority Whip.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, is the Majority Whip… Because of corruption, it becomes very difficult to know who is the proper Whip. Is the Majority Whip in order to be de-whipping when his role is to whip Members to come to the House, especially after passing unconstitutional provisions in the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill? Is he in order to de-whip Members when we know that there are armed forces who are going out of the country? I hope they take the ones who were killing us with teargas. Those should go there and suffer the consequences. You should not de-whip people. You should be whipping people into the House.

I did not notice the Majority Whip de- whipping anybody. I will, therefore, assume it did not happen. The Majority Whip stood in his place and requested that we defer the putting of this question and its further consideration to a future date. That request is acceded to. The Question will be put when this business relating to this particular Order will be scheduled by the House Business Committee (HBC) to be transacted by the House again.

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You want to defend yourself after I have granted your request? Hon. Osoro say something.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, Hon. Millie has accused me of de-whipping my Members and I want to be on record. They are watching me if they are having tea. Please I beg you to come back to the House so that we can debate because Hon. Millie wants you to debate. Hon. Millie wants you in the House and I beg you kindly wherever you are to come to the Floor of the House and debate. Although, Hon. Millie has been absent the entire period as we were in the Committee of the whole House and she has come back to play politics. Please I beg you that you come back from wherever you are and join us so that we can proceed. I beg you. I whip you.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Adan Keynan.

Hon. Members, you remember that earlier in the Sitting of this afternoon, the presiding Speaker appointed 6:30 p.m. as the time for Adjournment Motion of the House to discuss a Motion of Adjournment by the Hon. Peter Kaluma. I now order that the House proceeds to the matter of national importance as raised by the Hon. Kaluma.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I had earlier on moved for adjournment of the House.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Order Hon. Wamboka.

I had moved for the Adjournment of the House on a definite matter of urgent national importance regarding deployment of officers of the National Police Service (NPS) in Haiti. For the sake of time, it being that we have barely thirty minutes to debate, I would adopt the Motion in the matter I had moved the adjournment before, save to say the following:

The Constitution establishes the National Security organs in Chapter 14. These organs are the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF), the NPS and the National Intelligence Service (NIS).

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Victor Koech, Member for Chepalungu, you seem to be on a point of order and also you are lifting up your hand.

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am rising on a point of order.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): A point of order can be raised at any time. Hon. Victor you may proceed with your point of order. What is out of order?

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise under Standing Order No.35. Having looked around, I would wish to seek your guidance that this House has no requisite numbers for it to transact business.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Serjeant-at-Arms, I order that you ring the Bell for 10 minutes.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon Members, please do not walk out of the House when the Bell is being rung. Hon. Millie Odhiambo, you know that it is out of order to walk out of the House when the Quorum Bell is being rung.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): I order the Serjeant-at-Arms to stop ringing the Bell. Hon. Members, it is clear that the House is unable to quorate. I will proceed to adjourn the House pursuant to Standing Order 35.

(Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai): Hon. Members, the time being 6.45 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Wednesday, 11th October 2023 at 9.30 a.m.

The House rose at 6.45 p.m.

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Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.