Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell.

Order, Hon. Members. We now have quorum to transact business.

Members on your feet, take the nearest seats. Hon. Kirwa, take the nearest seat.

Hon. Members, allow me to recognise a delegation from the National Chiefs’ Forum Welfare, who are seated in the Speaker’s Gallery. These are representatives of chiefs currently serving in national government administration across the country. The delegation, comprising 11 senior chiefs from various counties is as follows: 1. Mr Walter Obuchele, Kakamega – Leader of Delegation. 2. Mr Peter Kimani, Nyandarua. 3. Mr Titus Katikit, Baringo. 4. Mr Kennedy Okoko, Homa Bay. 5. Mr Alfayo Walubengo, Bungoma. 6. Ms Immaculate Njoka, Kirinyaga. 7. Ms Margaret Ogamba, Nyamira. 8. Ms Magdaline Kariuki, Nyandarua. 9. Ms Eunice Kiema, Kitui. 10. Mr Jacob Madina, Kisumu. 11. Mr Isaac Ngare, Embu.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Members, the delegation paid a courtesy call to the Office of the Speaker. On my own behalf and that of the National Assembly, I welcome the delegation to Parliament and wish them fruitful engagements. I was requested by the Member for Kisumu West, Hon. Rozaah Buyu, to give her a chance to welcome the delegation. You said one of the chiefs is from your place. Go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for indulging me. Indeed, one of the chiefs, Mr Madina, is from my place. The reason I asked to speak is to acknowledge the most important work that they do in their regions. Chiefs and assistant chiefs are the people’s first point of contact with the Government. They are doing a tremendous job. In Kisumu West Constituency, we have taken it upon ourselves to ensure that the places of work of chiefs and assistant chiefs are warm. That is where they hold their baraza and meet and work for the people. I take this opportunity to join you in welcoming them and congratulating them for the work that they do. Mr Jacob sits as a secretary within Nyanza region. In the national sphere, he sits as a coordinator of ICT. On everyone’s behalf, I welcome him and thank him for the good job he is doing. Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity.

Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also take this opportunity to welcome the chiefs and, in particular, happily recognise the only lady from my home county of Nyamira. I give them a warm welcome to observe as we conduct the proceedings of the House. I thank you.

She is not the only lady.

I mean, amongst the ones who are there.

Oh okay. In the group, they are like four. Hon. Clive

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The only lady seated in the Speaker’s Gallery happens to be a chief from my constituency. I would like to welcome them to the House of Parliament. The role of chiefs in this country cannot be measured because they really help us in providing security on the ground. In Kitutu Masaba Constituency, I have taken an initiative of ensuring that all chiefs have modern and well-equipped offices to enable them serve the people. I would urge all Members of this House to kindly ensure that our chiefs have habitable offices that befit their service. They serve us and help in ensuring that our youth are ethically in line and that they grow up in a proper way. We would like to support chiefs and their offices in the best way possible as they are the main persons in contact with the people on the ground. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Mutuse.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I join you in welcoming officials of the National Chiefs’ Forum Welfare and join fellow Members in appreciating the important role that chiefs and sub-chiefs play in terms of delivery of national government services. I wish to inform them that this House is very committed in ensuring that they reach the people at the grassroots. They do that through village elders. Village elders have never been remunerated. It has been left upon chiefs and sub-chiefs to wonder how village elders go about their duties. This House has been very keen on ensuring that there is a legal framework to recognise villages and the village managers. As a House, we have resolved to ensure that the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Government is adequately resourced to be able to remunerate them. Therefore, going forward, chiefs do not have to use their own resources to do Government work. We will continue to work with them all over the country to ensure that Government services reach the people at the lowest level. I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Justice Kemei.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. May I also join you as well as my colleagues in welcoming the chiefs to this House of Parliament. As my colleagues have said, chiefs and their assistants play a critical role in the administrative set-up of this country. They also play a very critical role when it comes to social control. It behoves us as the National Assembly to give every assistance to chiefs and village managers, without whom we would not have this country running the way it is. I also want to thank them for their good understanding of Government policies. If there is a unit that understands Government policies and explains them to the people, it is National Government Administration Officers (NGAO) at the level of chiefs and their assistants. We congratulate them for the good work they do. As the National Assembly, we will do everything possible to make sure that their administrative units are in tandem with the requirements of this country and the quality they deserve. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Didmus.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to welcome the chiefs to the National Assembly. I assure them that this House is the defender of their welfare. We have been working very closely with them. I also assure them the commitment of the National Assembly to ensuring that there are handymen who are usually referred to as

or village elders. This House is committed to their welfare. Most importantly, the chiefs play a very critical role in the villages. This House must rise to the occasion to ensure that some of the money allocated to the county commissioners and regional commissioners goes to the chiefs who traverse their villages seeking information. The county commissioners, seated at the comfort of their offices, only receive the information from the chiefs and relay it to Nairobi. That money must go to the chiefs. The county commissioners do not require anything. They are provided with vehicles, which are fuelled. The people who require money for operations are these chiefs. This House must rise to the occasion to ensure that the money is not embezzled by the county commissioners and their deputies. It should go to the chiefs, who do the spadework for them. I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Nguna.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I join you and my colleagues in welcoming our chiefs who are seated in the Speaker’s Gallery. They play a very key role in maintaining law and order in our communities, notably in sorting out conflicts in our society. Let me also take this opportunity to welcome one of them, who is from Kitui County. Every time we convene a meeting or public gathering, we always involve chiefs. When we are launching National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) projects and issuing bursaries, we always use chiefs to convene the meetings. With those few remarks, enjoy your stay in Parliament, learn something and go back to the society to help them. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Shinali.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I join my colleagues in welcoming the chiefs to the House. First of all, I thank you for recognising and inviting them in this august House. I appreciate them and the work they do. Most state organs of the Republic of Kenya, including the National Intelligence Service (NIS), get information from chiefs, assistant chiefs and village elders. I confirm to the chiefs that Members of Parliament support that village elders should be paid stipends. This is because we realise the work they do. On the same note, I urge the Government that our chiefs should be made mobile. There was a time when they were given motorcycles. They need to be supported with fuel and maintenance money. All the chiefs and their assistants should be provided with motorcycles. I thank their Chairman, Chief Mukungu from Khwisero, whom I know. I am very excited to see him here. I take this opportunity to welcome him. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

I will give this chance to Hon. Sirma and then Hon. Melly will close the discussion on chiefs. Tumalize sasa .

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to comment on the work that the chiefs in this country do. They defend the public. They are highly misused by the provincial administration. At times, they are fought by criminals because of the duties they are forced to perform without protection. It has reached a time when chiefs should be provided with the security that was withdrawn from them. Secondly, I ask Members of Parliament to give dignity to the chiefs at the grassroots by building them offices from where they can serve the public, so that they do not work from their bags. Most of them do not have offices. They carry the rubber stamps, letterheads and all manner of office equipment they require. I ask Members of Parliament to give them an opportunity to serve with dignity. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Melly, close the discussion on chiefs.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to welcome the chiefs. They play a critical role in our society. They are almost the first line of national Government administrators on the ground. It is through them that Government programmes and campaigns are publicised. They also maintain law and order in our societies. Many chiefs in our societies ensure that Kenyans understand Government policies and programmes through baraza, meetings and seminars. I laud them because they do a lot of good work. Through the office of the chief, Kenyans solve their conflicts – land disputes, family disputes, cattle rustling and even maintenance of peace and order amongst communities. The leader of the chiefs’ forum or association is here in the house. This is an indication that as the national Government, we need to empower them by building for them offices and making sure that we give them modern means of communication. We should give them motorbikes and money to run their offices. This will enable them to buy stationery and move around. They will also buy airtime for their mobile phones, so that they can communicate amongst themselves and curb crime. In fact, the immunisation programmes have been very successful in this country because of the role of the chiefs. They are very important in the Kenyan society. We need to support them by giving them security. At times we feel very bad when we see them being harassed or even beaten up. At times they are killed because they have no security. The national Government needs The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

to look into it and make sure that every chief within his camp has two or three police officers to assist him. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Malulu Injendi, you can close this discussion now.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to welcome the chiefs in the House, and particularly appreciate the work they do for the country. As I stand here, I acknowledge that I am a son of a chief. The chiefs who are here are very important. I know that there is a way God always rewards them for the work they do like the way He rewarded my father. I am a Member of Parliament. During my father’s reign in the 1970s and 1980s, the chiefs—my father being one of them—had Administration Police (AP) officers on call. When there was a problem in the village, he would easily reach out to them. They would come and help him maintain security, as Hon. Melly has pointed out. The Vice-Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs is here. There are amendments we shall bring to this House that involve the village elders to be recognised and remunerated. They should include a clause to the amendments to ensure that chiefs also have AP officers at their disposal as they serve the country. They deal with very difficult situations such as land matters, which result in fights and deaths where I come from. Otherwise, I welcome the chiefs to the House. I encourage them to continue performing their duties and ensure that their children acquire education, so that they can reach the highest levels such as being the president of this country. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. Member for Kericho. Nimekupatia nafasi shingo upande.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The Deputy Leader of the Majority Party has asked me if my chief is here. The chiefs who are here belong to Kenya. I stand to welcome them to the National Assembly. I appreciate the work they do. As the Woman Representative for Kericho County, when we launch projects, chiefs always come to support us. More importantly, I like it when they come dressed in full uniform. Members of the public appreciate them. I also appreciate the chiefs who stand with us and the Government in fighting illicit brews. They are the ones on the ground and they know the dealers. They even know their names. I request the chiefs to continue supporting the Government as we fight illicit brew. They should also not forget gender-based violence, which has become rampant. They give us information in some parts of my county. They also bring people together, especially families which are separated in one way or another. I appreciate the work done by chiefs. As Members of the National Assembly, let us look at their welfare. We should support and encourage them to do their work. They are welcome in the National Assembly to follow the proceedings. Thank you.

Hon. Martin Owino.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute. My father was a chief. I am the only wuod chief in this House. Perhaps, there are others. I grew up in the homestead of a chief. I saw the kind of work they do. First of all, they work 24/7. There is no holiday for them. They are also counsellors. When we were growing up, couples could come through the gate fighting. By the time they left, they would do it with their hands together having been counselled by the elders. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

The chiefs do a lot of work. We should not belittle their services. If we resource them well, eventually we can prevent too many cases that end up in courts. They also help those who are sick and hungry. They know that if you are a chief, you should have what they have. That has been a problem. In a payback situation, we should consider their health package as well as tuition for their children, so that they can live comfortably. I thank you for inviting them to the House. I salute them all. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Call the next Order, Clerk-at-the-Table.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. The Member for Kericho asked me when I completed my university education. I told her that I finished in 1996. She thinks that was when Hon. Martin Owino was in Kindergarten.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House: 1. Implementation of the recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee on the examination of the report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements for national government ministries, departments and agencies for the Financial Year 2020/2021 from the Judiciary. 2. Reports of the Auditor-General and financial statements for the year ended 30th June 2023 and the certificates therein in respect of: (a) Kenya Fish Markets Authority. (b) National Housing Corporation. (c) Kenya Ports Authority. (d) National Construction Authority. (e) Kenya Fisheries Services. (f) Rural Electrification and Renewable Energy Corporation. (g) LAPSSET Corridor Development Authority. (h) Kenya Urban Roads Authority. (i) Kenya National Trading Corporation Limited. (j) Energy and Petroleum Regulatory Authority. I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Health, Hon. Pukose.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Departmental Committee on Health on the inquiry into alleged fraudulent payments of medical claims and capitation to health facilities by the National Health Insurance Fund.

Thank you. Next Order.

I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Health on the inquiry into alleged fraudulent payments of medical claims and capitation to health facilities by the NHIF, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday 12th June 2024.

Thank you, Hon. Pukose. Hon. Members, I want to rearrange the Order Paper. Can we dispose of Order Nos.8, 9 and 10 before we come back to Order No.7?

Order, Hon. Babu Owino! Take your seat

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44(2)(c), I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining regarding the ongoing demolition of buildings constructed on riparian land along the Nairobi River basin in Nairobi City County. In May 2024, the Government directed that all structures built on riparian land be demolished following the heavy rainfall that adversely affected most parts of the country. This is one of the functions of the established Nairobi Rivers Commission vide Gazette Notice No.14891 on 2nd December 2022. The President of Kenya signed it despite the Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry of Environment, Climate Change and Forestry having the power to make regulations for matters permitted by law. Moreover, by operation of Article 95 of the Constitution, the gazette notice is void for not having been laid before Parliament in accordance with Section 11 of the Statutory Instruments Act (CAP 2A). Regrettably, the demolitions reveal a distressing picture of inhumane treatment. Houses are being demolished without regard for the well-being of residents, some of whom have lived on the said land for over 50 years and possess legitimate title deeds issued by the Government. Article 27 of the Constitution provides for equality and freedom from discrimination. Whilst the demolitions took place in Eastlands, the same seem not to have taken place in Milimani, Kileleshwa and Runda – where there are similar buildings erected on riparian land. The demolitions are in contravention of Articles 10 and 43(1)(b) of the Constitution. Additionally, mothers and their children are being left to sleep in the cold without any alternative accommodation or support from the Government. This is in contravention of Article 28 of the Constitution, which provides that every person has inherent dignity and the right to have that dignity respected and protected. The Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development established the National Slum Upgrading Project, a prevention policy paper vide Sessional Paper No.2 of 2016. The policy, in operation, is aimed at integrating existing slums into a formal system through provision of infrastructure and low-cost housing. Therefore, the Government’s directive on the demolition of informal structures is in contravention of the existing policy. The demolitions have been marred by use of excessive force and are being conducted by the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF). The Government’s purported compensation plan appears to be limited to a few individuals, leaving many rightful landowners in a state of uncertainty and despair. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Additionally, the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Water Quality) Regulations of 2006 provide that riparian land include a minimum of six metres and a maximum of thirty metres based on the highest recorded flood level. Sadly, there are many areas where the houses demolished were built 60 metres from the riparian land, including houses in Gomongo area in Korogocho Ward, Mradi 4A in Utalii Ward and Hospital Ward in Mathare under the Kenya Slum Upgrading Programme Policy. It is against this background that I request a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining on the following: 1. Could the Chairperson provide a report on the constitutionality of the establishment of the Nairobi Rivers Commission, including the legality of the Kenya Gazette Notice No.14891 of 2nd December 2022 establishing the Commission? 2. What steps, if any, will the Ministry put in place to wind up the Commission if found illegally constituted? 3. Under what circumstances are officers of the KDF involved in the demolition exercise, which is a civilian function not within the purview of the KDF? 4. Outline measures put in place to ensure adherence with the relevant laws while exercising the said directive? Hon. Speaker, I want to put a rider that Hon. Mwango made a request for Statement within the following parameters last week. However, having been urged by Hon. Mwago, you directed the Statement to the Ministry of Lands. Upon research and careful reading, I have found that the primary mandate is with the Ministry of Environment and Forestry. Under your discretion, I urge you to countermand the earlier directive so that both of those requests for statements are directed to the Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry of Environment and Forestry. Thank you.

Is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Environment, Forestry and Mining present? Member for Kericho, you are a member of the Committee. Tell your Chairman to bring a Statement in the next two weeks. I order that your Committee deals with the Request for Statement by Hon. Mwago. Hon. Atandi.

Hon. Speaker, I am making a request for Statement regarding circumstances leading to the death of Tom Adala. Pursuant to Standing Order 44(2)(c), I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs regarding the death of Mr Tom Adala, who was an Assistant Director at the National Intelligence Service (NIS). Mr Tom Adala was found dead on 5th June 2024 at his residence at Kirichwa Villas in the Kilimani area under unclear circumstances. Mr Adala was a dedicated public servant who had been recently reassigned from his role to the NIS Training Centre. It is alleged that the deceased officer took his life due to depression, stress and humiliation at work. The circumstances surrounding his death call for thorough and transparent investigation to ensure justice to his family and to address any work-related circumstances that may have led to his tragic death so as to secure the integrity of the NIS and other national security institutions. It is against this background that I seek for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs on the following: The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

1. Explain the circumstances that led to the death of the NIS Assistant Director, Mr Tom Adala, on 5th June 2024 at Kirichwa Villas, Kilimani, Nairobi City County. 2. Clarify whether an Assistant Director could be reassigned other duties within the Service and provide details of the legal and policy framework for such re- assignment of duties. 3. Explain the reasons for the recent re-assignment of Mr Tom Adala from his role as Assistant Director to the NIS Training Centre. 4. Provide a report on the veracity of reports that Mr Tom Adala suffered from stress and humiliation at the NIS because of his ethnicity. 5. Provide a report on the status of investigations into the death of Mr Tom Adala, including a timeline for completion of the investigation and when the findings would be made public to provide clarity and closure for Mr Adala's family and friends? I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you Hon. Atandi. Hon. Mukunji. STATEMENT

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 43(1), I wish to make a Statement on the launch of the 2024-2029 Kenya Young Parliamentarians’ Association (KYPA) Strategic Plan scheduled for Thursday, 13th June 2024 at the JW Marriott Hotel.

As a youth champion and the Chairperson of KYPA, I rise this afternoon with great pride and anticipation to inform this esteemed august House about a significant milestone that holds immense importance for our nation's youth and their future prospects. The theme of this momentous event is “From Vision to Reality: 20 Years and Beyond.” For the last two decades, KYPA has been at the forefront of youth empowerment and advocacy, championing the interests of young people across Kenya. The Association was established to provide young parliamentarians with a platform to collaborate, influence policy, and address the unique challenges faced by the youth irrespective of their geographical locations, religion, societal class or political affiliations. Our Association’s unifying factor has and will always be the youth.

The development of the KYPA Strategic Plan has been a comprehensive and inclusive process. This was made possible by the immense support and extensive collaboration with you, Hon. Speaker, our partners and stakeholders, whose insights have been invaluable in shaping this document. The plan outlines our Vision and Mission and the strategic objectives for the next five years, with a specific focus on: 1. Enhancing members’ legislative capabilities; 2. Broadening public participation in legislative agenda like budget making and youth relevant topics such as unemployment, climate change through targeted forums and educational campaigns; 3. Developing youth-centric legislative initiatives through propelling creation of youth-related Bills, Motions and youth-led legislative actions; and, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

4. Youth capacity building to enhance skills and capacities of young people through mentorship and training programmes that will equip the youth to take leadership roles.

This event is more than just a launch. It will act as a unifying factor for the youth and the young leaders in the Republic and beyond. By bringing together young Members from the National Assembly, the Senate and the County Assemblies across all political divides, we are demonstrating the power of unity and collaboration in addressing the issues that affect our young population and the citizenry at large. The launch event will also provide a platform to celebrate our past achievements, highlight our strategic objectives, and reinforce existing partnerships while fostering new ones.

Hon. Speaker, I extend my heartfelt gratitude to our members, partners, donors and stakeholders for their unwavering support and contributions to KYPA’s journey. As we look forward to the future, let us continue to work together in driving the youth empowerment agenda and ensuring that the voices of young Kenyans are heard and valued in every sphere of our society.

Lastly, it is my distinct pleasure and honour to invite young Members to this auspicious occasion as we launch the 2024-29 Strategic Plan alongside His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Kenya, Dr William Samoei Ruto, who was a founding member of KYPA, and other dignitaries. It is through his vision and support that such a noble initiative exists today.

I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you Hon. Mukunji. Hon. Mumina Bonaya, the Member for Isiolo County.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44(2)(c), I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Labour regarding the interdiction of employees by the National Health Insurance Fund (NHIF). Hon. Speaker, Part VI of the Employment Act elaborately outlines the processes to be followed by an employer in termination of employment, including the rights and obligations of both the employer and the employee. Regrettably, the NHIF has been unfairly dismissing employees in the recent past without following the stipulated procedures laid down in law. On 13th March 2024, the NHIF unfairly interdicted Qalicha Bonaya Quyo of Personal No.1727 despite submitting a comprehensive show cause letter that exonerated him from the allegations levelled against him. Further, Huka Halake Hokicha of Personal No.2310, who was a Quality Assurance Officer at the NHIF, was also interdicted on similar grounds despite demonstrating compliance to the rules and the policies. Hon. Speaker, it is against this background that I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Labour on the following matters: 1. What regulatory frameworks does the NHIF apply in undertaking disciplinary processes against its employees, including interdiction and dismissal from employment? 2. Could the Ministry undertake an inquiry into the cases of interdiction of employees at the NHIF and submit a report to the House on the matter, including compliance The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

with the law on all disciplinary processes undertaken on employees, particularly with respect to Qalicha Bonaya Quyo and Huka Halake Hokicha? 3. What measures has the Ministry put in place to ensure that all public service employees, particularly those serving at the NHIF, are fairly investigated before being interdicted? I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. Who is the Chairperson for the Departmental Committee on Labour? Is it Hon. Karemba or Hon. Alice? Hon. Bonaya, are you sure you did not misdirect your Statement? The NHIF is under the purview of Health. Did you intend to direct your Statement to the Departmental Committee on Health or Departmental Committee on Labour?

The issue has to do with Labour. Employment falls under the Departmental Committee on Labour.

Okay. It is up to you. I thought a matter of NHIF should go to the Departmental Committee on Health. Leader of Majority Party, is there anybody from the Departmental Committee on Labour? Is that the Committee chaired by Hon. Karemba? Inform him to bring a response in two weeks’ time. Hon. Members, allow me to acknowledge, in the Public Gallery, students from Gaikundo Secondary School from Mukurweini in Nyeri County, Kyevaluki Secondary School from Kangundo in Machakos County, and Baricho Boys High School from Ndia in Kirinyaga County. Even if they have gone, they should feel welcome in the precincts of Parliament.

Order, Hon. Okello. Yes, Whip of the Minority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I seek your indulgence on a matter that is also very important to the House. As you are aware, in this month of June, we are dealing with financial issues. Tomorrow, the Cabinet Secretary will be here to give us highlights on the Budget Estimates. After that, we shall embark on the journey of the Finance Bill. I can see that a lot of public participation has been done extensively. Members have been engaged, and views of members of the public are very important. I, therefore, seek your indulgence, Hon. Speaker, that the report of the Committee should be tabled early enough so that Members can use it to debate. Because the report might change the Bill as it is, fundamentally, we have come across a situation here where Members are debating the Bill in its original form when the Committee has recommended a lot of changes to the Bill. Time is of essence. We are only remaining with two weeks because we need to pass that Bill by 30th of June. I, therefore, request your indulgence that the report must come to the House as soon as possible so that we can internalise it.

Thank you. That is a legitimate request. Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I thank the Whip of the Minority Party for that concern. I also confirm to the House and the country that it is, indeed, true, that a lot of public participation has been done by the Finance and National Planning Committee.

Hon. Speaker, if you can protect me from this group behind here, led by the Member for Mwatate Constituency.

Hon. Mwashako and Member for Garsen Constituency… The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Following the extensive public participation that comes to a close today, I am informed by the Office of the Clerk that the Committee on Finance and National Planning will retreat from tonight until Monday. Hopefully, they will table a report next week on Tuesday. It is also true that it is only upon the tabling of that report that Members can debate and have a very clear public discourse on what will be contained in the final Bill, or what would become the Finance Act of 2024. I have even seen governors in funerals and in churches, like the clueless Governor for Nyeri County, debating the Finance Bill and saying that he will vote no, as if he votes in this House. That governor even has no idea of what is contained in the Finance Bill, and has not even bothered to follow the public discourse. I, therefore, appeal to him…I know the people sending him are the same characters trying to mobilise Members of Parliament, and I must thank these Hon. Members of the National Assembly because they have refused to be incited against the Finance Bill, and insisted on waiting for the report of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning to read and understand what is contained in that report, see what amendments come out of the public participation, and then we make decisions based on that. But we cannot make decisions based on what a funny governor is saying in some church somewhere. I thank Hon. Junet for raising that question because it gives us the opportunity to put into proper perspective the workings and operations of the National Assembly and Parliament, that we never pre-empt debate by going to debate things out there before they come before us. The Bill is rightly before the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. The Committee is considering the Bill plus the proposed amendments that have come from members of the public and other stakeholders. I hope the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning will work with speed to table that report next week.

Thank you. Yes, Leader of the Minority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I add my voice to this very vital matter that has been raised by the Whip of the Minority Party. Indeed, the issue of the Finance Bill is very important that we need to get it right this time around. Bearing in mind the public mood out there, it requires that we go through this process in a manner that gives Members the time to interrogate the report and the proposed amendments. I rise because of what I have heard the Leader of the Majority Party say. Hon. Ichung’wah has made some comments concerning the Governor of Nyeri County, who purported to be making a decision on the Finance Bill out there. But he made more serious remarks besides that, that I was very concerned about. Hon. Speaker, please, indulge me for one second. I listened to the Governor of Nyeri, Mutahi Kahiga, and I could not believe that I was listening to a leader who has been elected by the people in a county. He was castigating the Government of the Republic of Kenya for extending development projects to Kenyans. He wondered why the stadium in Bungoma was completed in a record two weeks, yet the one in Nyeri is still pending, and yet the people of Bungoma County did not vote as much as the people of Nyeri for the Government. He also lamented why the sugar debt for the sugarcane farmers was being waived, yet sugarcane farmers did not vote for this Government.

Shame! Shame!

We must, in one accord say without any equivocation that the Government of the Republic of Kenya belongs to all Kenyans. All Kenyans pay taxes, be they in Bungoma, Kakamega, Siaya, where I come from, or Nyeri counties. They are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

all Kenyans. Therefore, time has come. Some of us have got no business, by the way, with the differences in the United Democratic Alliance (UDA),

There are no differences!

Perceived, I do not know. Whatever issues are in UDA do not concern us. But you cannot stand on a public platform and be seen to be discriminating against a section of Kenyans on account of how they voted in the last elections. When I was in Siaya juzi, I said that that governor must be called to order. If for sure he is pursuing some agenda which we do not know, then that agenda is contrary to the national interest and the Constitution, of course. I stop at that for the time being. In the fullness of time, I will come back with a more comprehensive action. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. I do not want to escalate that. Leader of the Majority Party, you should also inform that Governor that the sugar industry's debt write-off was sanctioned by this House.

Yes!

It was not an Executive Order out there. It was sanctioned by the representatives of the people, including Members of Parliament from his county. Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I agree with you that, indeed, the debt waiver for sugarcane farmers was never sanctioned by the Executive. It was sanctioned by this House. Therefore, the Governor of Nyeri was also casting aspersions on our constitutional mandate as the House that approved that waiver. More importantly, as the Leader of the Minority Party says, all Kenyans are taxpayers. My own constituency is cosmopolitan, but the bulk of my constituents speak the Kikuyu language. Whether we pride ourselves as a community which perceives itself to be the most endowed with wealth or lie to ourselves that we are the most populous with one man, one wife. I know Hon. Junet and his community in Mandera have one man, four wives and a minimum of seven children while I have four children. We must bear in mind that as leaders, we are leading a nation of many communities. Whether we perceive them as taxpayers or not, they contribute to our national well-being.

I listened to the Governor of Nyeri saying that the people of Nyeri never took even a piece of the sugarcane whose debt is being waived, and that the people of Bungoma never voted in large numbers as the people of Nyeri. It is very embarrassing that he does not know that the people of Bungoma voted for Kenya Kwanza with an equal number of votes as the people of Nyeri. The difference between the Bungoma and Nyeri County votes does not exceed 20,000 or 30,000. They were all in the 200,000 plus votes. A Government is never elected to serve those who voted for them. How do I know who voted or did not vote for me as the Member for Kikuyu?

At times, that is why we have difficulty engaging in a shareholder discourse in terms of how to manage our Government. I do not know whether we are at liberty to discuss the conduct of the Governor of Nyeri without a substantive Motion. I appeal to him whether he was speaking for himself or had been sent to say those utterances by somebody else, irrespective of what position that person holds in the Government of Kenya, please respect other communities.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Please appreciate that sugarcane farmers deserve the debt waiver just like coffee farmers deserve the coffee debt waiver, we have given them in this budget and the previous ones.

Hon. Speaker, those of us who come from the sugar belt… I listened to that Governor speaking and imaging that Bungoma County is the entire sugar belt in the country. He does not know the sugar companies benefitting from that debt waiver. Ninety per cent of them are in Nyanza not Western Kenya. Only two sugar companies namely, Mumias Sugar Company Limited and Nzoia Sugar Company Ltd are in Western Kenya. The bulk of these other companies that is Chemelil Sugar Company Limited, Muhoroni Sugar Company Limited and South Nyanza Sugar Company Ltd (Sony Sugar) are all in Nyanza. They deserve to benefit from taxpayers’ money like the people of Kiambu, Nyeri and Kirinyaga deserve to benefit from the coffee debt waiver. In conclusion, last week, there is a saying I quoted, ‘that you cannot build a kingdom when you are fixated with attention from the village’. I know some of you took it out of context and tried to mobilise a hate campaign. I call on us, as Members of the National Assembly to put the nation ahead of our community and parochial self-interest.

I condemn the action and words of the Governor of Nyeri. I will write to him officially informing him about some of the things said for his record, so that as he exits office, he can travel around the country, tangatanga, and engage in a bit of political tourism to understand other people in the country.

Hon. Mukami.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support what the Leader of Majority has said. I went to campaign in Bungoma together with the President. I was also with him when he went to Migori to waive those debts. I want to tell my brothers and sisters in this House that the people of Nyeri are innocent and I apologise on their behalf. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Rozaah.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for this opportunity. Hon. Junet asked a very pertinent question on whether we can receive the report in good time to enable us debate. I want to request the Leader of the Majority Party to give us assurance that we will receive it on time instead of going into politics which does not answer the question.

Hon. Rozaah, he already gave an assurance. Maybe you were not listening. He said that the report is likely to be tabled on Tuesday. I will direct him to ensure it is tabled by then.

Hon. Speaker, it was over clouded by all these political statements which I do not think are part of what Hon. Junet had asked. Thank you.

Hon. Didmus.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to agree with what the Leader of the Majority Party has said. If you look at our Constitution, anybody who engages in utterances that are against national values and interests, which appear to divide this country along how people voted and tribal lines are grounds for impeachment. I want to make it The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

clear that the utterances by the Governor of Nyeri are clearly false. That man is not fit to hold office. I call upon the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) to begin the process of removing him from office because every Kenyan requires development. Wherever you come from this country or the tribe you are from is not a criminal offense. The Governor of Nyeri is not fit to hold public office. The grounds for removing him should begin immediately today. They ought to have begun yesterday. Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support.

Hon. Members, I do not want us to escalate this matter. Hon. Farah Maalim you seem agitated.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support the statement by the Leader of the Majority Party. You and I have been around the longest and you can remember how the problems in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) started when Mobutu Sese Seko was the President. He tried to victimise a small minority community of pastoralists called Banyamulenge. They were hardly one million of them in a nation of over 60 million. They took their arms because nobody can accept to be a second-class citizen in his country. The DRC has never seen peace since then. It does not matter how big your numbers are. If the smallest community in Kenya decides they are having a raw deal and are going to destroy this country, they have the capacity to do so.

Let us keep our unity as a nation. We have the most beautiful country in the world and diversity is our strength. It is not supposed to be our weakness. When a very senior Government official says all politics is local, what is he talking about? This is the case and yet he wants to be the President of this country. Who is going to allow him to be the President of this country? He is simply saying that he will only take care of his small village up there.

Hon. Ichung’wah, you have done us proud together with many other leaders. Let us keep the unity of this country for God’s sake. The National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) should be doing its job. We were close to having a collapsed State in 2008. You and I were in Parliament at that time and we avoided that calamity of the complete dissolution of the Kenya Government because many people came from all over the world to assist us. We have to learn from the mistakes we made in the past and never try to do it again. In Rwanda, they tried to eliminate a small minority of Tutsis who are 15 per cent, but they came back and have ruled that country for 30 years and will rule for another 50 years. It is not a guarantee that because you have the numbers, you will take over the country. Let us protect our unity.

Hon. Members, we will stop here. I laud the Leader of the Majority Party and the Hon. Leader of the Minority for displaying patriotic thinking. Members out there… Order, Hon. Gacheri.

Members out there, it is not a Nyeri problem. It is an individual and Hon. Mukami has said as much. Whether you are a governor or whoever, Members who are displaying grandiose paranoia in the conduct of their public affairs will be called to order. This House has unlimited authority The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

through your committees to summon any such errant characters, whoever they are. As a House of representatives of the people of Kenya, we will not sit and watch any reckless conduct that can bring disorder to this country. I salute you, the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party, lead the House in the manner you have shown and call out anybody who is errant in their conduct. Thank you. Hon. Jared.

I thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. Whereas you have closed that debate, I would like to take a tangent from what both the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party have talked about. We have lately seen discordant voices, especially emanating from the presidency which is composed of the President, the Deputy President, the Cabinet and others in that chain. Whereas I would be least concerned about what happens in the Kenya-Kwanza Coalition, when these matters have the potential to create disunity in our country, I would be concerned. In Bungoma, where you played a very good host to the most successful Madaraka Day ever in this country, I did realise that 40 minutes after the President had sat down, the Deputy President showed up. The President of the Republic of Kenya had to welcome his Deputy which is totally a break from tradition. On Sunday, during an event of the Akorino brothers in Nakuru, the Deputy President arrived one hour after the President had sat down. Next to the President was his seat which was being warmed by the Cabinet Secretary for Water and Irrigation, my friend Mr Zachary Njeru. When he showed up, he started castigating the weather, his means of transportation and many other things. Yesterday, to my dismay, the Deputy President took a commercial flight to Mombasa and was holding his own bag getting into the aircraft. This House appropriates budgets for travels of the Deputy President. At no given time have we ever envisaged a situation where he takes a commercial flight. However, if he takes solace in commercial flights, it is incumbent upon this House to reduce his travels by 95 per cent. We know what is being charged by commercial flights and the rates charged by chartered flights. Hon. Speaker, whereas this Government is barely two years in office, we have listened to quite disdainful statements emanating from the office of the Deputy President. I want to ask you Hon. Speaker, that the Leader of the Majority Party should shed more light on these issues because they touch on us as the consumers of Government services. A lot has been spoken about regarding sugar and the loans that were offset by the Government, just yesterday in a Cabinet meeting. Six 6 billion shillings owed by coffee farmers was also cancelled by the Cabinet and there is no furry about it. When the same Government cancels debts owned by Government-owned sugar mills, it becomes a matter of concern by one particular governor of Nyeri, who has since abrogated himself the role of a spokesperson of somebody else. I have always believed that governors are too busy to indulge in holding briefs for others. These are fundamental, germane and salient issues that if left unchecked, have the potential to create bigger problems for this country that we all love. I implore my very good friend, Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah, the Member of Parliament for Kikuyu, to shed more light on these matters. Otherwise, if there is a real problem that the Deputy President is suffering from that as a House we can help solve, then this is the right platform. However, if he is creating disunity and playing victim so that a particular section of the Government will go a different way, we want to know and call him to order.

Yes, Member for Ruaraka.

Hon. Speaker, in as much as this is music to my ear, we are slowly digressing from the business of the House. I have heard names being named here. Hon. Speaker, you are the biggest advocate of protection, that persons must not be named here The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

adversely without a substantive Motion. That side says they are a ‘super majority’ and there is nothing that stops them from drugging that man here so that they can impeach him. They can impeach him easily by bringing him here and voting against him. Why should we divert from the business of this House and enter into some charade, hypocrisy and politics instead of doing business which is before us? We know the politics that you people are doing, but we also have our politics. We do not want to turn this place into a political arena because of this matter that has been choreographed.

Order, Hon. Kajwang’. Let us have Hon. Atandi.

Hon. Speaker, I did not want to enter into this conversation, but let the truth be said. The Governor of Nyeri did not say anything out of this world rather than there is no equity in sharing the national cake, which is a fact. The budget that has been passed here, so many sections of this country are not receiving projects and the Governor of Nyeri, as a leader elected by Nyeri residents, must fight for the welfare of Nyeri residents. Let us tame this discussion because the national cake is not being shared equitably. Most parts of this country are not receiving resources. Let us not be a Government that preaches unity when it is favouring us. If there is chaos, people who want to steal will not steal. This is because you cannot steal when there is chaos. You only steal when there is unity. So, we do not want this conversation about unity because we need unity and peace so that we can steal in peace. Let us be genuine about unity. If you are talking about unity, let it be genuine unity.

You cannot tell me that we are preaching unity here, yet there is no development that is coming to my area. You cannot tell me you want Kenyans to be united just because the preaching that you are giving us is for your good. So, the Nyeri Governor should not be discussed here unfairly. I agree with him that the Government must ensure equity in the sharing of the national cake so that all Kenyans can be happy, peaceful and united. You cannot be united in empty statements. Let us be united. Let us have real unity. Real unity is about resources. It is about, for example, how much money is going to Siaya vis-a-vis Kiambu and How much money is going to Uasin Gishu vis-a- vis Kisumu. That is the unity that I want to hear about, not empty statements about unity. I support the Nyeri Governor. Thank you.

Yes, Hon. Osoro.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. What has happened in the recent past, started like a joke from what many considered as mere statements by very top leaders of this country. It started from statements like, you know, the Government is like a shareholding company. That statement claimed that there are some communities that really did not contribute to the formation of this Government. Some people were called shareholders and others traitors, and people kept quiet. However, if this House keeps quiet, the trend that this country is taking will take us back to 2007/2008. That is if we are not careful. It started from one particular leader, and then it went down to his supporters. He also probably recruited some speakers as his mouthpiece to speak on his behalf. The recent utterances shocked The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

the nation. Somebody was questioning the division of the national cake and how it has been shared. That, it should be shared based on how people voted. That is shocking. What he said is that if we go by the formula he was proposing, then he will also propose that certain regions should not pay taxes; they should not contribute to the national cake in terms of paying taxes. That is exactly what the Governor of Nyeri meant and that is being extremely selfish. More importantly is what Hon. Okello has raised. Yesterday it was a bit embarrassing… This House passed last year's budget of the Financial Year 2023/2024, and it allocated funds to every arm of Government. The Executive got its Vote and the presidency in particular, got a budget to help run its affairs. Every Member of this House and Members of the public know very well that these offices are well-equipped with teams of people that help the members of the Executive, like His Excellency the Deputy President, to move around. It was a shame to see His Excellency the Deputy President moving around carrying a bag. In as much as one wants to pull some PR stunts - I say this with tremendous respect - it is time we question the members of staff that work with His Excellency the Deputy President. Where were they when he was carrying the bag? Where were they when they were taking pictures and some of them, of course, were standing behind him as he pulled the bag that looked very empty? The bag must have been bought from the airport. In as much as we appreciate the fact that…

Order, Hon. Osoro! What Hon. Jared Okello asked was legitimate. However, let us not digress into discussing the conduct of the person of the Deputy President. Jared Okello asked whether… The reason I allowed him to seek that Statement from the Leader of the Majority Party is that the person of the Deputy President of this country is a responsibility of everybody. His movement to any part of the country has security implications. How he travels, who he travels with and where he goes has security implications. So, I saw it in the context that it is not a matter that is normal to see our Deputy President towing a bag on the airside to the aircraft and you appropriated resources to facilitate the work of the Office of the Presidency. That is how I understood Hon. Okello's concern. Hon. Okello was seeking the Leader of the Majority Party to assure the country whether this is something subnormal or it is something that is near normal.

New normal!

Somebody is saying it is the new normal. However, in security terms, it is not normal. That is what I expect the Leader of Majority Party to tell this House. So, anybody who seeks to speak to this can only confine himself within that context. If you start discussing the personal conduct of the Deputy President, I will not allow you.

On a point of order.

Yes, KJ. What is your point of order?

Hon. Speaker, I was seeking to find out if the Majority Whip is in order. You have guided so well on the points that we have to confine ourselves to. However, the Majority Whip was deviating to take the mickey out of serious professions. He is talking about the Deputy President taking a Public Relations (PR) show to the runway. I would like the Majority Whip to understand that PR as a practice in itself is a very respectable profession. More importantly, we should understand - I have to put this straight - that the Deputy President is on record saying that he is a product of the drama festivals. He has acted on stage, in plays and even at the University of Nairobi. So, if he decides to put up a play, it is not the place of the Majority Whip to call him out on putting up a PR show. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

The Deputy President is very serious about supporting talents in this country. A few days ago, the Deputy President was present for the launch of the Bahati Show. We could have had a continuation of the same show on the runway of JKIA.

So, I was seeking to find out if the Majority Whip is in order to take the mickey out of very serious professions. The professions of public relations, acting, and people who chase clout for content for TikTok are very serious jobs. So, I want you to find the Majority Whip out of order for deviating from the issue as you have directed. Thank you.

Order, Hon. Members! Hon. KJ, the act of a Deputy President towing a travel bag on a runway is not a display of talent and it cannot be.

Hon. Osoro, wind-up.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I stand guided and I will not delve into the conduct of His Excellency the Deputy President. However, nothing stops any Member of this House from bringing a censure Motion on the conduct of His Excellency the Deputy President, especially if his conduct is a shame to this country. However, if it is a reality show, as Hon. KJ has said, then it is important for us to appreciate him by saying that reality shows pay. The young people have shown clearly that reality shows are paying. In fact, people say that even TikTok pays. The very first time I saw the video of His Excellency the Deputy President towing the bag was on TikTok.

Order Hon. Members! Reduce your consultations. Wind up.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Generally, what I am saying is that any public officer or public servant, right from the presidency at the top moving downwards to all civil servants who have been given the privilege to serve this country, should be careful with the utterances that they make and their conduct in public. It is at such points that we sometimes ask whether the National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) is operational. We should see the Governor of Nyeri County being summoned and questioned for his utterances against a certain community and for profiling some communities as lesser human beings. We should also see people raising questions under Chapter Six on the conduct of some senior members of the Executive on how they carry themselves in public, and also applaud the Deputy President and appreciate him for deciding to spend less by using a commercial flight to Mombasa. That is how we want to move around. He is now able to pay…

Mama Zamzam.

Asante sana, Mhe. Spika. Ningependa kuwaeleza Wabunge wenzangu kuwa mambo yanayotendeka sio ya kucheka, maana tunajua majukumu ya Naibu wa Rais. Leo ukifanyiwa hivo, tutakutetea pia. Kuna pesa ambazo zimetengwa kwa hayo malengo kwenye Bajeti Kuu. Tumemuona Naibu wa Rais akilalamika mara kwa mara kuwa ndege imemuacha, au ameambiwa hiki ama kile kimetendeka. Kuna shida katika taifa letu. Ninaomba Rais na Naibu wake wakae, na watatue shida iliyoko, maana Kenya ni yetu sote. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Gavana wa Nyeri alivyoongea ako na makosa. Ugavi wa rasilimali unafaa uwe sawa katika taifa zima. Angetaka kumtetea Naibu wa Rais, asingetumia matamshi yale, kwa sababu yanazidi kuleta sitofahamu. Wale walikuwa na haki kupewa fidia ili kuwawezesha kuregesha ule mtambo wa miwa. Lakini kwa yote, tulipomuona kwa ndege ya abiria ya kawaida bila hata walinzi, inatatiza picha ya taifa la Kenya. Nimeona hata Wabunge katika mikutano wakizungumza na kurusha cheche za maneno. Wakenya wakati huu wana matatizo mengi: bei ya bidhaa imepanda. Wakati huu, tunafaa kuongelelea Finance Bill, lakini tetesi ambazo zinakuja katika taifa hili sio nzuri. Ni vipi Naibu wa Rais anatembea na mkoba mkononi? Kama kuna tatizo, inafaa walio kwenye mrengo wa Kenya Kwanza wajaribu kuutatua. Sisi tushazoea matatizo yetu. Tulipigwa, mkatucheka, na sasa kimewaramba. Lakini yote tisa, mkae chini na muyatatue matatizo yenu. Hata leo, mkimshika Spika wa Bunge Hili, ingawaje yuko kwenye mrengo wa Kenya Kwanza, nikiona mtu anamletea shida na anaenda kupokonywa haki zake za kimsingi, nitasimama na kuzungumza yaliyo kweli. Hii ni kwa sababu leo ni yeye, kesho ni mwingine. Tumeona kumetokea tetesi katika Ofisi ya Rais Mstaafu. Mambo haya yanafaa tukae chini, kila mmoja apate haki yake na tuangalie maslahi ya Wakenya. Asante.

Hon. Mukunji.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to weigh in on this issue carefully. Almost everyone speaking on this issue is my senior in politics and in many things that we are doing. I need to bring the perspective of a newcomer to Kenyan politics. While I do not know how this country will be in a few years to come, I feel like we are changing the tune in a way that can mess with our democracy. I call upon our senior leaders to embrace speaking in the rooms and coming out to tell us clearly what is happening. I was also worried when I saw the Deputy President carrying his bag. I felt sad. Had I been there, I could have carried it on his behalf.

Was he carrying or towing it?

He was carrying the bag, and it looked like it would not fit in the plane's overhead bins. The Leader of the Majority Party must clarify why the Deputy President was carrying a bag on a commercial flight. We are getting into the conversation on how to save on costs. We need to embrace what the Deputy President has brought aboard. We should be able to travel together with our colleagues who are not senior members of the society.

We have bigger problems to think about. Currently, Embu is reeling from poverty because of the ban on muguka . This House is not doing enough to help us listen to both sides of the divide so that my people do not die of poverty when they are making a living out of muguka . This is serious. We have to know how our people make money, and the ban might mess up their lifestyles.

As I conclude, and reading the Standing Orders, I am happy with your guidance that without a substantive Motion, we should not speak about the characters of our senior leaders, especially the calibre of the Deputy President and the President. We are still learning how to handle this, but I urge Members of Parliament, especially those on the Government side, to have a

so that we can speak and guide our leaders if they are not guiding us the right way. That will help us as we proceed. I hope the Leader of the Majority Party has heard you. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Junet. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Speaker, this matter that Hon. Jared has raised is of national importance. We are dealing with the Offices of the President and the Deputy Presidency, as the Member for Budalangi, Hon. Wanjala, says.

Yesterday, I saw what was happening on social media, where the Deputy President was carrying a bag in the streets of Jomo Kenyatta International Airport. As someone who has travelled a lot, what struck me in that episode was the kind of bag he carried.

That kind of bag is not meant for the Deputy President but something else. Another thing that struck me in that episode was the contents of that bag. The Deputy President could not even give it to his bodyguard and had to hold it himself. What were the contents? I do not know whether a committee of this House can find out. He could not even trust Hon. Ngunjiri Wambugu, who was behind him with it.

Those are the two things that struck me politically in yesterday's episode.

Why are we discussing this matter? The only place that can hold the Executive accountable constitutionally is Parliament. You can hold someone accountable in the sense that if it is your responsibility to dismiss him from the job he has, you are the only one who can do that. It is a clear provision in the Constitution that this House can remove anyone who occupies those offices. Hon. Speaker, you are a senior lawyer. If this trend continues... The Constitution says that a State officer must bring honour, dignity, and respect to his office. You cannot demean the office you are holding and expect to attract dignity and respect. Let us call a spade a spade. If you want to politicise, fine, and if you want to talk in a church or at a burial, that is fine; but not to the extent of demeaning the Office of the Deputy President. Even the Office of a Member of Parliament cannot be demeaned. When some of our colleagues misbehave, we take offense. When some of our colleagues go to burials and behave in a manner that is unbecoming, we take offense. We talk to them, and as a Minority Whip, I guide them on how to behave. I do not know whether the Executive has a Whip. The whip of the Executive must now come in. I do not know whether it is the Leader of the Majority Party, who is the whip of the Executive. Leader of the Majority Party, if somebody is not interested in a job, there are Kenyans who are interested in that job. Why not do something? We are here to execute it. Many Kenyans can perform – men and women of high standards and calibre.

No! I do not qualify, because I am not from the Kenya Kwanza Alliance, but anybody else is qualified. The Deputy Presidency is a very critical office. In our neighbouring country, the President who is running that country today was the Deputy President of President Magufuli. Today, she is the President of the Republic of Tanzania. That tells you how important that office is. That is not the kind of office that can be occupied by somebody who is pulling a trolley in the corridors of Jomo Kenya International Airport. It is not possible. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

We are talking as a Parliament because it is here that we discuss matters of concern to the people. Surely, the Deputy President pulling a trolley is a matter of concern to the public. The discussion here is not why he used the Kenya Airways public transport. That is neither here nor there. The issue is pulling a trolley. Are we, as a country, giving the Presidency the kind of respect that it deserves? I am not absolving blame on anybody. Anybody who has not done his work can be held accountable.

Let me conclude by saying this. People take these offices casually. Some think that if they become Deputy President, they cannot be held accountable by anybody. A Member of Parliament will hold you accountable. The Constitution has given him that provision to hold you accountable. Any Member of Parliament, by the way, and it does not matter whether you are in Kenya Kwanza Alliance or Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party. Any Member of Parliament can hold you accountable for actions and anything you speak. I do not want to digress because the Speaker has said we concentrate on the context. Some of the utterances, however, are wanting.

Some of us might not have become Deputy Presidents or occupied higher offices, but we are now senior members of the country. We have served more terms in Parliament than some of those people. They know that. I have been in this Parliament more than those people. They know themselves. I do not want to mention names. I am now serving a third term, and people just came here for one term and sijui jua lilitoka wapi likawamulika, na sasa ndio wao wako namna hiyo nasisi bado tumebaki tu kama kuku hapa ndani ya town. Let us respect the offices we are holding. If you have grievances, you must deal with them in a manner that befits the office you are holding. Do not bring shame to the country. When you want to divide the country and separate people, nobody will accept that. Nobody will allow that. For those people who are very close friends of our friend, please buy him another bag. I want to see a better bag on the next trip. Hon. KJ, please. Thank you very much.

Leader of the Majority Party, you have heard the Members’ concerns.

What is it, Hon. Wanjala? I have given the Leader of the Majority Party an opportunity to tell the House the Members' concerns.

Sit down, Hon. Wanjala. I want to repeat that the conduct of the Deputy President of the Republic of Kenya is not under discussion here. The issue raised by Hon. Jared Okello was very clear. Hon. Junet has summarised it very well. We now want the Leader of Government Business in the House, the Leader of the Majority Party, to assure the House and the country that the dignity of the Office of the Deputy President is not at stake. More importantly, that the Deputy President is provided with resources to discharge his duties and responsibilities in a manner that brings honour and dignity to the office. Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. As you have guided me, allow me to restrict myself to the issues raised by Hon. Jared Okello without delving much into the issues of whether this was a reality television show or acting and drama. I want to confirm to the House and the country that the President, Deputy President, Prime Cabinet Secretary, all The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

other cabinet secretaries, and even Members of Parliament are well and adequately provided for in terms of budgetary allocations. This includes budgetary allocations for travel and staffing in all our respective offices.

Hon. Jared Okello will bear me witness that last week on Thursday, we passed the Supplementary Appropriations Bill, and we are now in the process of finalising the Appropriations Bill for the 2024/2025 Financial Year. If any Kenyan looks into the books of accounts of the national Government, they will realise that the Office of the Deputy President is very well- resourced. Indeed, it is just good to put it into perspective because Hon. Jared Okello has raised the issue. As you have guided, some issues touch on the budget of the Office of the Deputy President or the Presidency. Some issues touch on the security of the person of the Deputy President and that of the President. Also, Hon. Junet has referred to honour and dignity that comes with the offices that we all hold, not just the President and the Deputy President, but even us as Members of Parliament.

I confirm that there are adequate resources, including air transportation, fixed airwing, aircraft, and helicopters. Even if the Deputy President opted to travel by sea, there are adequate resources for him to travel by sea, the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR), Coast Bus, or any other bus. It is not unusual. I do not know why anybody would think it is unusual for the Deputy President to travel with our national carrier, Kenya Airways. I have witnessed holders of that office in the person of William Ruto, our current President, use not just Kenya Airways. Last week, when he travelled to South Korea, he took a commercial airliner to and fro. The only difference is that he never posed for any photograph anywhere. As Deputy President, William Ruto travelled not just by Kenya Airways but also by Jambojet to Mombasa and Eldoret. He has used Skyward, Renegade, and Safari Link to Maasai Mara. Therefore, it is not unusual. The only unusual thing that happened yesterday that may have gotten Hon. Jared Okello's attention was the Deputy President towing a brand-new bag - as Hon. Junet says, that could not even fit into the compartments in the aeroplane— and posing for a photograph. Regarding security matters, the Deputy President was also very well secured yesterday, and I can confirm that to the country. He had with him not less than 19 bodyguards, 14 of whom he was to travel with on that aircraft. Therefore, he had no problems with people to carry his bags. Let nobody think that the Deputy President had problems with people carrying his bags. He had not less than three photographers to take photographs.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Order, Leader of the Majority Party. Yes, Hon. Junet. What is the point of order?

Hon. Speaker, I wish to ask the Leader of the Majority Party whether he is correctly saying that on a plane that was to carry 60 people, 14 were supposed to be bodyguards of the Deputy President. Can you tell Parliament in broad daylight that 14 were members of his security detail out of 60 members on the plane and cameramen and other things?

Hon. Speaker, the information I have is that the Deputy President did not just appear for the photograph; he was driven to the airside with his entire security detail, including the presidential guards from the Recce Squad that guard him. They were adequate, not less than 14 officers traveling with him on that plane, including photographers, security men, bloggers, protocol, and the former Member for Nyeri Town, who I hear is now a chief blogger in that office. I am making the point that the Deputy President was not short of staff The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

and personnel to carry his bags, including the photographers taking those photos. Therefore, his security was not in question at all. Secondly, in terms of the dignity and honour that comes with that office, the Deputy President had this flight paid for by the Government of Kenya using taxpayers' money. Keen observers saw that he was seated on seat 1A, and the chief blogger in his office, the former Member for Nyeri Town, was seated in seat 2A in the business class. Others, including two security officers, were sitting in the business class with him and many others in the economy compartment. Let me assure the country that the Deputy President was very safe on that flight, and there is nothing unusual in him taking commercial flights. Many of you who attended the National Prayer Breakfast will remember His Excellency the President affirming that out of the austerity measures the Government has instituted and which we effected through the Supplementary Appropriations Bill, his office, that of the Deputy President, and that of the Prime Cabinet Secretary had cut their budgets substantially. I only encourage the President, the Prime Cabinet Secretary, and the Deputy President to bear in mind those austerity measures by reducing the delegations when they travel. If not for anything, I am certain nothing would happen to you when you are in the skies, so one or two security officers might be adequate. You do not need three or four photographers to travel with you on a plane. You can send some by SGR or drive to Mombasa. I encourage all Government officers, including those in Parliament, to bear in mind that we are in a tough situation due to the austerity measures the Government has instituted. I was pleasantly surprised the other day when I saw Members of Parliament carpooling to Naivasha because they thought it was easier to hold their meeting there. This should be the spirit. I have seen questions being raised, especially by bloggers, whether the Deputy President is entitled to use military aircraft. I engaged the Cabinet Secretary for Defence. So that we may put this matter to rest, I will be writing to him to appear before this House in plenary to answer questions pertaining to the use of military aircraft in the country. He asserted the other day that only the President, as Commander-in-Chief, and the First Lady have access to military aircraft since we do not have a Deputy Commander-in-Chief. The Deputy President has a police aircraft designated for his use, currently under maintenance. The Cabinet Secretary tells me they will finalise its maintenance in the next few weeks. Not only is it a police aircraft maintained by the Government, but whenever the Deputy President is flying it, for his safety and security, bearing in mind the office he holds, it is usually flown and operated by Kenya Air Force pilots and servicemen, so that we can assure the country of the Deputy President's safety. I have been informed that when the Kenya Kwanza Government took over, the Defence Forces would occasionally allow senior Government officers to use their aircraft on request. Ordinarily, Government policy dictates that when any senior Government officer, like the Deputy President or the Prime Cabinet Secretary, intends to use a military aircraft because they are designated for military operational work, he should request through the Office of the Head of Public Service, Felix Kosgei. Let me put it on record because I have checked the facts. On the day that Hon. Okello refers to, Madaraka Day, the Office of the Deputy President never requested, through the Office of the Head of Public Service, to be facilitated with military transportation. He opted to use other means of transportation. As to why he had to keep the President and the country waiting for 40 minutes is a matter I am not able to engage in because I would not know why he decided to get late. You The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

could also choose, like the Speaker chose, to spend the night in Bungoma or Kisumu and be nearer to the venue or wake up early, like many of us did, to travel. The same applies to the Sunday incident at the Akorino church in Nakuru that Hon. Jared Okello spoke about. It is true the Deputy President arrived over an hour later than the President. The President was magnanimous and courteous enough to receive his deputy. I can also confirm because I was to join you in Laikipia, that we left Nairobi at exactly the same time as the Deputy President, at about 10.44 a.m. When his chopper was lifting from his Karen residence, I was also departing from the other side of town. I can confirm there was a slight challenge with the weather around Mt. Longonot, but we were able to manoeuvre within a period that did not exceed five minutes. As to why the Deputy President chose to tell the country that he had transport and weather challenges on the pulpit in church, again, I am not in a position to tell why the person serving in the Office of the Deputy President would choose to tell what is not true while standing at a pulpit in church. Hon. Speaker, since you have guided that we are not here to discuss the conduct of any person, I do not want to delve into that. From what the Cabinet Secretary for Defence has informed me, the President, Deputy President, and Prime Cabinet Secretary may, in writing, ask for the use of military aircraft. The Cabinet Secretary for Defence also informed me that for the last year, the aircraft being used by the Deputy President, Prime Cabinet Secretary, and other senior Government officers occasioned an expenditure of Ksh500 million by the KDF. The KDF then wrote to the various offices, and the Office of the Deputy President wrote back, declining to share in the costs of the wear and tear and fuel of this aircraft. As a consequence, the KDF and the Ministry of Defence made a policy decision that should any officer want to use military aircraft, it must be on request, since they all have resources appropriated to them for air travel. Therefore, if you use a KDF aircraft, you must pay for fuel, wear and tear from the budget in your office. Therefore, Hon. Speaker, they should not cry foul that they are not allowed to use military aircraft. Only the President, as Commander-in-Chief of the KDF, has unfettered access to the use of military aircraft. However, the aircraft that the National Police Service (NPS) has designated to the Deputy President is currently under maintenance. We saw what happened in our neighbouring country, Malawi. The Vice-President and nine other people perished in a plane crash. May the Lord rest their souls in eternal peace. We will not fathom that happening to any of the officers serving in our Government. I was also informed that many of those aircraft, including the ones used by the President, were put on a rigorous maintenance programme following the unfortunate incident where we lost our Chief of Defence Forces (CDF). It is only fair that we allow our military and maintenance personnel to service and avail them for use by senior Government officers when they are in good condition. I have adequately responded to the question by Hon. Jared Okello. This is just a preliminary answer to him. I have spoken to the Cabinet Secretary for Defence about this. I will also write to him to come and apprise the House of how senior Government officers should move using military aircraft. He will also inform the House of how secure they are, how often they are serviced, and any challenges they may have with them. In conclusion, I will speak to many people. I saw a very unfortunate post yesterday on social media by the bloggers who work in big offices. It was anticipating the demise or occurrence of a vacancy in the Office of the President. These are things people may write casually and post online. When my predecessor, Hon. Charles Njonjo, was Attorney-General and Minister for Constitutional Affairs, he made it treasonable even to imagine the death of a President. We are not in that age. However, it is unfortunate that bloggers who work for senior officers of this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Government can post such write-ups on social media. They wish, anticipate, or pray for the occurrence of a vacancy in the Office of the President. They also purport that the Deputy President is only an inch away from the Presidency should anything happen to the President. We may take these things lightly, just as we may take the talk you referred to by the Governor of Nyeri County or the one about people going to their villages lightly. I agree with Hon. Osoro that these are the kinds of things that led us to the 2007/2008 post-election violence. People were told to go back to their villages. It is true we all come from villages. However, we must grow beyond our villages when we hold senior Government positions. We must remember that we bear a greater responsibility to Kenyans, way beyond our villages. Whatever words we utter must unite Kenyans but not create divisions. If we do not do this, it will bring dishonour and a big blow to the dignity of the office you hold. Lastly, as I said over the weekend elsewhere, respect is earned. There are Members of Parliament here who have suffered like the ones from Nyeri County. If the Woman Representative for Baringo County had an opportunity, she would tell you the unpalatable words that have been used to describe her. Let us earn our respect as leaders. If I demand respect, I must also respect the Member for Baringo County, the Members from Nyeri County, Mount Kenya, and across the country.

On a point of information, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Mathenge, whom do you want to inform? Leader of the Majority Party, wind up.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Order, Hon. Mathenge. Take your seat.

The Member for Nyeri Town heard me mention how much they have suffered and would like to say something. Hon. Speaker, I will allow him to inform me for one minute.

He wants to inform you. Do you want the information?

I am obliged to get it.

Hon. Mathenge, inform the Leader of the Majority Party in one minute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I speak on behalf of the six elected Members of Parliament from Nyeri County, including the Senator and the County Woman Representative. We have suffered intimidation and blackmail.

As elected leaders, it is imperative that we are given the space to execute the mandate that the ordinary people of Nyeri County gave us when they voted for us. The people of Nyeri did not vote for us to follow an individual when he goes dancing, drinking muratina, and eating nyamachoma . This is not possible. The dancing does not happen in Nyeri County but in Hon. Kiunjuri’s Constituency. We want to speak on the Floor of this House and inform the country that respect is two-way. You cannot disrespect us in other constituencies and expect us to maintain the respect The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

we have accorded you for the last two years. Respect is earned but not demanded, coerced, or enforced.

You have made your point.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Leader of the Majority Party, wind up.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I will wind up by echoing what Hon. DMM has said. As national leaders, we should earn our respect. Let us not demean other leaders. Let us not coerce, intimidate, and, more importantly, blackmail anybody. We should not do that to Members of Parliament, government institutions, or any other officers serving in Government. In conclusion, as the Leader of the Majority Party, I have said it elsewhere, and I will repeat it here: for the time the almighty God will give me the opportunity to serve in this office, I will never allow anybody to demean any Member of Parliament. This is whether the Members are in the minority or majority parties or come from the same village with somebody or not. I will never sit back and let it happen. As a leader in this House, I will protect the rights of all Members. In doing so, I believe I am protecting the dignity and honour of not only this House and individual Members, but also of the electorate. With those many remarks, I commit to write to the Cabinet Secretary for Defence to answer the issues Hon. Jared Okello raised substantially.

Thank you. As you do so, the Leader of the Minority Party has requested me to give him a minute to contribute to this issue. He will be the very last one. Take into account what he will say.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I do not want to speak to this issue, but it is my duty to raise my voice on such a weighty matter. Firstly, as Azimio la Umoja

Order, Hon. Members. W acha tuwachie hapo . This matter ends here. Next Order. Order, Hon. Members. Be upstanding. We are going into the Committee of the whole House.

They are very happy. Hon. Members, we are in the Committee of the whole House to consider the Equalisation Fund Appropriation (No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.30 of 2023). The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee has an amendment to the Bill. Is Hon. Makali Mulu moving the amendment on behalf of the Chairman? There is an amendment by the Chairman of the Committee to Clause 3 of the Bill. Hon. Members, this is the Equalisation Fund Appropriation Bill. You spoke about it at length yesterday in the afternoon. It is a very crucial Bill. I request that we attend to it. The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee has an amendment to Clause 3.

May the Members who are standing take their seats so that we transact this together and as fast as possible. Hon. Makali Mulu, please move on behalf of the Chairman.

I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended– (a) By deleting the words “ten billion eight hundred and sixty-seven million four hundred thousand” appearing in the opening statement and substituting therefor the words “ten billion seventy-seven million four hundred thousand,”; The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(b) In paragraph (a) by deleting the words “three hundred and twenty-six million, twenty-two thousand” and substituting therefor the words “three hundred and two million, three hundred and twenty-two thousand”; and (c) In paragraph (b) by deleting the words “ten billion, five hundred and forty- one million, three hundred and seventy-eight thousand” and substituting therefor the words “nine billion, seven hundred and seventy-five million, seventy-eight thousand”.

(Funyula, ODM)

Hon. Makali Mulu, do you want to explain the effect of the amendment?

There is an amendment to the Schedule. Chairperson Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be deleted and substituted therefor with the following new Schedule—

There appears to be no interest.

We have interests.

Yes, Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I just want to note, and the country should equally know, that this Equalization Fund Appropriation (No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.30 of 2023) Schedule seems to be revelling in tokenism. It is dropping small things here and there to be seen to be sharing the cake throughout the country, yet the majority of the funds still remain in the so-called marginalised areas. The question we always ask: for how long will they continue claiming to be marginalised? We just pray and hope that the funds that have been allocated to go to the marginalised areas are absorbed. Let us hope half of it will not find its way back here in Nairobi to build malls and skyscrapers.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

Thank you, Hon. Oundo. Hon. Dido Raso.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Chairman. Whereas I support the Committee, my concern is that if we continue with this pace, this will not be Equalization Fund. We must give it another name. Why give a constituency Ksh5 million or Ksh10 million? What do you want it to do? We must allocate enough money to build schools, hospitals, construct roads or water projects. Going forward, if the next schedule of Equalization Fund will be brought in this form and context, many of us will oppose it on the Floor of this House and even in course of law.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Order Hon. Members. Let those Members take their seats and discuss from there.

Mover. Hon. Makali Mulu on behalf of the Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Equalization Fund Appropriation (No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.30 of 2023) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Hon. Members, let just have the Chairperson to report to the House.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Equalization Fund Appropriation (No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.30 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

Hon. Members, let us have the Mover of the Bill to move agreement with the report. Who is the Mover of the Bill?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report, and request the Leader of the Majority Party, Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah, to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second.

Hon. Members, ordinarily, I should put the question but I will not do so. That is deferred to another day.

We are now moving to the next Order.

Chairperson.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to move; THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee on its consideration of the Consolidated Fund Services for the Supplementary Estimates II for FY 2023/2024 and the Budget Estimates for FY 2024/2025, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 4th June 2024. Hon. Temporary Speaker, this marks the Fifth Report on the Consolidated Fund Services (CFS) expenditures presented and deliberated within this Chamber. I extend my gratitude to the diligent members of the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee for their unwavering commitment in examining the estimates of expenditure under the CFS, and for tabling this Report for deliberation. Our appreciation also goes to the stakeholders who contributed insights during the Committee sessions and to the Committee Secretariat whose support was instrumental in finalising this Report. The CFS expenditures are obligatory expenditures that are deducted directly from the Consolidated Fund and are not included in the annual Appropriation Bill as stipulated in Article 217 of the Kenyan Constitution. These are, therefore, mandatory expenditures and constitute public debt servicing expenditures, pension payments, and salaries and allowances for independent offices, constitutional commissions, among others.

Under the CFS expenditures in Supplementary Estimates II, expenditures will amount to Ksh1.99 trillion. It will primarily comprise debt servicing expenses worth Ksh1.8 trillion, representing 90 per cent of the overall CFS expenditures. Additionally, the CFS expenditures include pension expenditures amounting to Ksh187.6 billion, which will account for the remaining 10 per cent. For the Financial Year 2024/2025, total CFS expenditures are projected to amount to Ksh2.06 trillion. The CFS expenditures will be composed of debt servicing expenditures worth Ksh1.83 trillion and pension salary allowances and other miscellaneous expenditures worth Ksh203.6 billion. The Committee also observed that the cost of domestic debt continues to drive CFS expenditures, accounting for 61 per cent of the total CFS expenditures. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

In general, the CFS expenditures, therefore, constitute the largest expenditure component of the national Government spending. It underscores the necessity to strengthen the National Assembly's oversight capacity over these expenditures to ensure transparency and accountability. Furthermore, it also highlights the ongoing fiscal challenges confronting the nation, stressing the importance of designing and implementing strategies to lower these expenses. Therefore, maintaining fiscal discipline, adhering to the fiscal consolidated trajectory, and freeing up fiscal space for key development investment has never been more crucial. These steps should aim to stimulate sustainable economic growth rates exceeding 10 per cent. The Committee noted a projected improvement in the fiscal deficit between the Financial Year 2023/2024 to Financial Year 2024/2025, from 5.6 per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to 2.9 per cent. Achieving a lower deficit to GDP ratio is vital for sustaining fiscal health, thus ensuring economic stability, attracting investment, and securing better economic prospects for subsequent generations. Despite this positive outlook, it is vital to remain realistic and diligently pursue this target, even if it requires rigorous fiscal discipline. In this context, reducing expenditure on public debt service is essential. These expenditures, which on average constitute 88 per cent of CFS expenditures, indicate an escalation in largely non-productive expenditures, causing liquidity constraints and increasing vulnerability to macroeconomic shocks. Total debt service expenditures are projected to reach Ksh1.8 trillion in the Financial Year 2023/2024, and Ksh1.85 trillion in the Financial Year 2024/2025, underscoring the increasing inflexibility of our fiscal structure. This is illustrated by the interest expenditures for the Financial Year 2024/2025, which are anticipated to be Ksh1.01 trillion, equivalent to 5.6 per cent of our GDP. Tackling this challenge is essential for boosting budget flexibility and enhancing liquidity. Beyond fiscal management, effective management of the macroeconomic factors is crucial. The Committee observed that the depreciation of the Kenya Shilling against the US dollar in the Financial Year 2023/2024 led to an increase of up to Ksh1.2 trillion in external debt stock and over Ksh300 billion increase in external debt service expenditure. Although this was mitigated by the subsequent appreciation of the Kenya Shilling, it highlights the significant cost of implications of some macroeconomic policies. Going forward, fiscal and monetary policies should operate synergistically to mitigate the financial burden of external debt and reduce interest costs. A thorough review of the debt operations under CFS expenditures is also warranted. In the Financial Year 2023/2024, the National Treasury became the primary debtor for the debt owed by Kenya Airways Plc. According to Supplementary Estimates II, the guaranteed debt of Kenya Airways Plc was integrated into the main external public debt stock for the Financial Year 2023/2024. The interest and the principal payment for this new loan are projected to be Ksh14.3 billion in the Financial Year 2023/2024 and Ksh20.9 billion in Financial Year 2024/2025 with further payments of Ksh21.3 billion and Ksh10.7 billion expected in the Financial Year 2025/2026 and Financial Year 2026/2027 respectively. The Committee noted that this resulted in additional financial commitments without corresponding assets, thereby increasing the financial burden. We would like to emphasise that just because these expenditures are a direct charge to the Consolidated Fund and do not require appropriation, they are not exempted from oversight by the National Assembly. There is an overall necessity to establish laws, protocols, and standards to oversee CFS expenditures, given that they currently represent the most substantial Government outlays and are expected to maintain this status in the foreseeable future. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

The Committee has observed absence of provisions within the Public Finance Management Act of 2012, specifically regulating CFS expenditures. Despite this significance, this gap poses a loophole in their management. The Committee will take necessary action to address this issue, ensuring the involvement and input of all stakeholders in the process. This process shall be backstopped by enhancement of the National Assembly Standing Orders so as to set adequate procedures to ensure that the National Assembly remains on a proactive stance, in the review of these rising expenditures. After our deliberations on the estimates of the CFS under both the Supplementary Estimates II for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and Financial Year 2024/2025 and consultation with various stakeholders, the Committee, therefore, gives the following recommendations for consideration by the House. 1. That, within 60 days of the adoption of this Report, the National Treasury should conduct a comprehensive review of all CFS expenditures to identify areas where spending can be reduced or made more efficient and prioritise expenditures that directly contribute to national development goals and critical Government functions. 2. That, upon adoption of this report, the National Treasury and the Central Bank of Kenya should undertake quarterly macroeconomic reviews in order to ensure that fiscal and monetary policies operate synergistically to mitigate financial burden of external debt and reduce interest costs. The results of these deliberations should be submitted to the National Assembly within 15 days of the end of each quarter. 3. That, the National Treasury should undertake a review of the cost of overdraft facility and submit a report to the National Assembly within 30 days of the adoption of this Report. The report should review the use of the facility, the cost structure of the overdraft facility and make proposals to manage and reduce interest payments. 4. That, the National Treasury should submit regulations to the National Assembly within 90 days of the adoption of this report, that will guide the use of the overdraft facility. 5. That, within 60 days of the adoption of this report, the National Treasury should submit to the National Assembly, a comprehensive report of the use of the Ksh200 billion allocated for the Redemption of Treasury Bills Shortfall for the Financial Year 2023/2024. 6. That, the National Treasury should, within 30 days of the adoption of this Report, submit to the National Assembly the full details, including contracts between itself and all parties that resulted in the assumption of Kenya Airways Plc guaranteed debt. 7. That, within 30 days of the adoption of this Report, the National Treasury should undertake an impact assessment of the assumption of the debtor responsibilities for Kenya Airways Plc guaranteed debt and submit a report to the National Assembly covering the cost-benefit analysis of the transaction to the country. 8. That, within 30 days of the adoption of this report, the Kenya Airways Plc should submit to the National Assembly a realistic and comprehensive report on its turnaround strategy and measures in place to replenish the public resources utilised in the payment of the guaranteed debt, cash bailout and expenses relating to the debt assumed by the National Treasury. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

9. That, the National Treasury should submit to the National Assembly an appropriate draft legislation to regulate the expenditures under the Consolidated Fund Services, by the end of Quarter Three for the Financial Year 2024/2025. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move and request Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu to second. I thank you.

Thank you, Chairperson. Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to second this Motion. I want to appreciate our Committee Members for the good work they are doing of ensuring we oversight the CFS expenditures. The report moved by my Chairperson captures both Supplementary Estimates II for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and Financial Year 2024/2025. I want to spend more time on the CFS expenditures for the Supplementary Estimates II for the Financial Year 2024/2025. To put things in perspective, from what the Chairperson has said, this country is projected to spend Ksh1.83 trillion for purposes of servicing our debt. Out of that figure, we will spend Ksh1.01 trillion to pay interest and the rest will redeem the loans taken. To appreciate the magnitude of this problem, I want to provide these details. If you look at the projected revenue for the coming financial year, we project to collect about Ksh2.9 trillion from ordinary revenue. Since we must finance the debt deficit, looking at the total amount which will be used to pay our debts against the total projected revenue collection, which is Ksh2.9 trillion, we are saying 62 per cent of our ordinary revenue will go to debt repayment. To make it easier, in the next financial year for every Ksh100 collected, Ksh62 will be used to pay debts. We will remain with Ksh38 to take care of all the other Government expenditures. We all know debt repayment is a first charge to the CFS. This means we pay before we think about anything else. We are paying Ksh1.01 trillion in form of interest. This amounts to 55 per cent of the total projected revenue. It means for every Ksh100 collected, Ksh55 will pay for interest, not the loan. If you look at this scenario, you will realise that the CFS expenditures have become too huge to a level it has become a matter of concern to this country. The amounts being used to pay for debts are making our fiscal space very inflexible such that the Government does not have space to factor other expenditure items. Hon. Temporary Speaker, that is why the Committee wants this House to take matters of public debt very seriously. I agree with the Chairperson when he said that despite the fact that these expenditures are not appropriated by this House, it does not mean we should not offer oversight. I urge this House to support the recommendations made by this Committee. We need a very clearly detailed legal framework on how to oversee public debt or the CFS expenditures so that we can properly oversee the issue of public debt repayments. On the overdraft facility available at the Central Bank of Kenya, the Chairperson noted that from our analysis, the Committee is getting worried because of how it is being used. In the proposed budget, we factored in Ksh200 million for this so, it is important that we oversee this overdraft facility. I can see I am really short of time. Regarding the issue of Kenya Airways (KQ), the national Government has taken over the guaranteed debt repayment. As a Committee, we are worried because it is not clear how KQ will compensate taxpayers who will pay this loan. How this has been done is not very clear. The Committee will get all the details to help the House appreciate how these agreements are signed. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. With those many remarks, I beg to second. It is time issues of public debt are properly...

Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu, I notice you have run out of time but I will give you an additional five minutes. Is that enough for you or you want 10 minutes?

Ten minutes.

That is okay. Proceed.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I do appreciate. There are about three things I want to say which are very important. I was talking about the issue of overdraft facility at the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) where the National Government is allowed, by law, to draw about 5 per cent of the outed revenue to take care of cash for management. We have realized that despite the fact that we have budgeted for about Ksh200,000,000 to take care of payments relating to bonds and Treasury Bills, the National Treasury is also using overdraft facility.

From our assessment as a Committee, this House needs to take more time in paying attention to how this overdraft facility is being used so that we ensure there is accountability. The other matter which is critical is the issue of Kenya Airways guaranteed debt. You realise that when any parastatal takes a loan, it is always guaranteed by the National Treasury, and this is by law. So, Kenya Airways incurred a debt by taking a loan. It happens that they have always been struggling to pay this loan and the National Treasury has been bailing them out over time. This time round, the National Treasury has taken over the total loan, which means in our public debt register the loan is captured as a national Government loan.

When we analyse that situation, we do not find details as to how Kenya Airways will compensate taxpayers this money. It is an area we are demanding, as a Committee, to get proper details from the National Treasury on how this matter has been transacted. We have requested our legal officers from Parliament to give us input as to how this transaction was conducted so that we make sure that Kenyans do not lose any money in this arrangement.

As I conclude, because you have already done me a favour by adding me a few minutes, if you look at the pensions, it is also an area we are allocating a lot of money. I think it is important to note that this House always appropriates amounts for pension. Our call and demand, as a Committee and as a House, is that the National Treasury ensures that our pensioners are paid their dues in a timely manner. We have seen some of them die because of delayed payment. We have seen their families taken through very long procedures and unnecessary delays where their children even drop out of school. It is time they received timely payment so that they benefit from this pension.

The last one is the matter of commissioners. The Committee on Fiscal Studies (CFS) expenditures deals in payments to the retired presidents, the current President, and the Deputy President. It is public knowledge and we have seen the exchange that is happening currently where the former President seems to be facing challenges. As a House, the relevant Committee should take up this matter and question why money appropriated by Parliament is not released to the relevant officers. We know there are challenges of Ex-chequer release, but it is important that this House ensures we monitor budget implementations. With those many remarks, I beg to second and thank you very much for the time.

Hon. Members, there is a procedure in which business is transacted on the Floor of the House, and that procedure cannot be skipped. Hon. Owen Baya, you are conversant with that because you are a Leader in the House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Order Hon. Members!

Yes, Hon. Member of Parliament for Funyula. The matter is open for debate.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As I stand here to support the report again, allow me to make two or three comments from the word go. Supplementary budgets, in whichever way, are a case of poor planning, lack of oversight, and imprudent management of public resources. A supplementary budget should only happen in very exceptional circumstances. Looking through the report presented here, there has not been any exceptional circumstances that might have warranted this Supplementary Bill other than the change in the exchange rate between the dollar and the Kenyan Shilling. That is, probably, the only valid matter. In any case, any serious economists ought to have foreseen that this scenario was likely to obtain and take relevant mitigation measures in preparing the budget or the appropriation estimates for this line of expenditure. Committee on Fiscal Studies (CFS) is shrouded in mystery, so to speak. We do not appropriate here and, therefore, we have no tools to oversee and monetise expenditure. That is why I totally agree with the Committee that we must move with speed to put in place legislative measures or mechanisms that allow objective, qualitative, and comprehensive oversight of the fund. It is, indeed, baffling that our loan repayment keeps on ballooning each financial year yet the so-called Kenya Kwanza Government came into power on the understanding that they will reduce borrowing. Indeed, estimates that have been bandied around and figures published by the CBK indicates the opposite. That is why we will continuously remain in the big hole and we will not get out of it. The second issue that we need to be careful about, and I challenge the Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation that handles CFS to basically have a thorough audit of this account. It is on record that the Controller of Budget reported (it was widely reported) that whatever is indicated to be her remuneration in the estimates or in the accounts was far much higher than what was actually being paid. So that begs the question: how transparent is the management of this particular account? For the last three days, the former President has lambasted, complained, and cried that he has not been paid pension and facilitated to operate his office. The question we ask is: where does the money that is supposed to be in the Consolidated Fund Services go to?

You meet retired teachers and other civil servants and they tell you they have stayed for six years to ten years without getting their pension. So, the question we beg to ask is: where does this money go to? What happens and yet every year we appropriate money to the CFS? Why can we not pay the retirees their pension and gratuity? Some of them are languishing all over here. Former senior Government officials tarmac in this town until the soles of their shoes are worn out as they try to look for pension, yet every financial year we appropriate the funds. I can see my time is running out. The question we beg to ask Kenya Airways is: for how long shall the country carry it? They cannot even provide KQ crew to help the Deputy President carry his bag! For how long shall we continue to support Kenya Airways? Is it not time that we wean Kenya Airways from dependence on the national resources, or we fully make it part of our critical assets as the pride of Africa? I concur and associate strongly with the policy recommendations of the Committee, and I hope they will have the temerity and authority to follow up with the implementation. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Member of Parliament for Emurua Dikirr, Hon. Johana Ng’eno. I am not seeing him. Probably, he has left. Madam Zamzam Chimba, Member for Mombasa County.

Asante sana, Mhe. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipatia nafasi ili nichangie hii mada ya Supplementary Budget. Nimeupitia huu Mswada kwa kina, na ingawa tunapitisha Bajeti kila mwaka, hatuoni pesa zinapokwenda. Nimekuwa na walimu juzi na licha ya Bajeti kuwatengea pesa za kustaafu, posho la kukaa, na ile nyongeza ya mshahara ya juzi, bado wanalia maana hazijawafikia. Siyo walimu tu wanaopitia hii shida bali wafanyikazi wa Serikali wengi kama wale wa Kenya Railways. Kila mwaka, pesa zinatengwa kwenye Bajeti kwa niaba yao bali hawazipati. Katika Kamati yangu ya

tumetamaushwa sana kuona Ksh2.5 bilioni imepunguzwa kwenye ile mipango ya kuwalisha wanafunzi. Mbona pesa zipunguzwe kwenye mipango muhimu kama hiyo ya lishe ya watoto? Kuna vipindi vinavyotendeka kwenye mitandao mbalimbali nchini. Kuna makadirio katika Bajeti ambayo yametengewa ofisi ya Naibu wa Rais na maofisi kadha wa kadha, lakini yale mambo tunayoyaona yanastaajabisha. Kwa mfano, yale makadirio yaliyowekewa Ofisi ya Rais mstaafu, hayakuwafikia. Wasimamizi wa hiyo ofisi wamejitokeza wazi na kusema kuwa hawajapata hata peni licha ya kutengewa fedha kwenye Bajeti iliyopita. Hawana pesa za kuwekea magari yao mafuta wala ya kuendesha ofisi zao. Ninawasihi wahusika wahakikishe kuwa pesa zinapotengwa, ziwafikie walengwa. Siyo haki walimu watatizike kupata marupurupu yao. Hata tumeona viwanja vya ndege nchini viko kwenye hali duni ilhali kila mwaka vimetengewa asilimia fulani ya pesa. Inamaanisha kuwa kuna mfuko umetoboka mahali unaoramba hizi pesa. Kwa yale mambo tumeyazumgumzia awali ya Equalization Fund, miaka nane baada ya kuzinduliwa kwa hazina hiyo, Kaunti za Garissa na Wajir ziko pale pale kimaendeleo na watu wanateseka licha ya pesa kukadiriwa. Hamna stima, maji, na hosipitali ilhali kwenye Bajeti kuu, walitengewa pesa. Kuna uwezekano mkubwa kuwa hizi pesa hazielekezwi kwa walengwa. Kuna mtu mahali anayeifanya makatafunio. Ikiwa tutaekeza Bajeti, ifikie walengwa ili mgao ukija, nifahamu kuwa Kaunti za Wajir, Garissa, Kwale na Mombasa ziko sawa. Ni aibu sana kumuona Naibu wa Rais akizunguka na mabegi kwenye ndege za abiria wa kawaida ijapo ofisi yake iko na bajeti yake. Ni aibu kuyaona hayo mambo yakitendeka kwa wakati huu; ninawasihi wahusika wakuu kuwa Bajeti inapotengwa, iwafikie wahusika. Asante.

Hon. Nzengu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. Even as I support the Report, I agree with the previous speakers. I want to pick on the issue of the Supplementary Budget, where the budget deficit rather than decreasing, was increased from Ksh887 billion to Ksh920 billion. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it was reported that the budget rationalisation was to take care of the deficit yet the recurrent expenditure was reduced in most of the State Departments and the overall deficit increased. This is just to sound an alarm that, as Parliament, we need to be more serious on interrogating the actual expenditure. Are we getting our priorities wrong? If the recurrent expenditure is reduced yet the overall budget deficit is increased, it is an issue of concern. The other issue of concern is the amount of revenue that we expect to collect vis-a-vis the amount of money that is being paid in terms of debt, especially the fact that we are paying almost Ksh1 trillion in terms of interest. This is also something that our attention must be drawn to. We The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

are reading every day that the Government is borrowing more money every other time. What are the terms of the loans that we are borrowing today compared to what has been borrowed in the past? My last contribution on this is about Kenya Airways. It is a shame that Kenya Airways is supposed to be a commercial airline like any other that is supposed to be competing in the market with other airlines. But when you look at Kenya Airways, every other time, we have to appropriate money towards it. It has been reported that the Kenya Airways loan has been taken up as a national loan. The pricing of Kenya Airways is not cheaper nor subsidised. I, therefore, do not understand why they are charging commercial rates yet it is not able to compete with other airlines like Ethiopian Airlines. It is not a good practice, and I agree with the Committee that something must be done. Is there foul play or some bad business practices being conducted by Kenya Airways? I support.

Let us have Hon. Wangwe followed by Hon. Kimilu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Report by the Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation under the Supplementary Estimates II and Financial Year 2024/2025. What is peculiar about the overall expenditure in the Supplementary Estimates II is the Ksh1.99 trillion. In the final estimates, the Report puts it at Ksh2 trillion. Similarly, the servicing of the public debt in the Supplementary Estimates rises to Ksh1.8 trillion while in the final estimates, it pushes it upwards to Ksh1.83 trillion. This means that in future, we are going to purely rely on the drawings from the Consolidated Fund Services; a scenario which the Kenyan Constitution gives the administration of the day the authority to do so. It is, however, subject to abuse. I thank the 12th Parliament. In its wisdom, it thought it wise to separate this Committee from the Budget and Appropriations Committee (BAC). Initially, this used to be an annexure of the BAC Report, but now it is coming as a stand-alone. I am also interested in highlighting the observations that have been revealed in this Report. I want to single out the issues highlighted particularly touching on Kenya Airways. This Report almost appears to have gone into detail on what is bedevilling this country. Is it that the Consolidated Fund Services (CFS) has only affected Kenya Airways? The answer is no. Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to speak as the Chairperson of the Public Investment Committee on social services, administration, and agriculture, where some of the parastatals are receiving repayment of debts from CFS. What happens is that the National Treasury responds to the guarantees that it has committed this country against the lenders. However, the question that comes about is: were these items delivered? Secondly, were these items delivered at prices that could otherwise have been competitive? Most of the time the answer is no. Hon. Temporary Speaker, we visited two agencies and found out that the delivery of services was wanting. The issue of pricing was also wanting because it is mainly supplier-driven rather than consumer-driven. What does it speak to spending in terms of prudence of financial management? It leaves us exposed. It leaves us unable to account for what taxpayers have put into the CFS as national revenue. I want to thank the Committee for highlighting Kenya Airways, given that the National Treasury undertook the guarantee and eventually went ahead to settle the payment. The Committee has indicated that in 30 days upon adoption of this Report, they would want certain reports to be filed by the National Treasury as a response to the issues that might have arisen towards this debt. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is commendable because many a time you find that there is a lot of laissez-faire administration with Kenya Airways staff. It is because it is not competitively driven and they have somewhere to lean on in case the airline comes down. Kenyans will rescue them. If the airline does not work, they have somewhere to hold their shoulders. Mine is to say that their days are gone. We must look at what is happening not only within Kenya Airways… Now that the Report speaks to Kenya Airways, we want to be specific. I wish the Committee on Public Debt and Privatisation had extended its phalanges and looked at other parastatals equally so that it is not just a matter of Kenya Airways. We must have general prudent management of public resources. The National Treasury must rise to the occasion because the Report even goes to the extent of stating that if you are called upon to get some reports from the National Treasury, they cannot be traced. There was no commitment documentation between themselves and the external suppliers. I want to thank the Committee in full for this Report. If …

You want one additional minute? Proceed.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for adding me some two minutes. I commend the Committee. It will be good if this Report is adopted as it is. I also wish to call upon the Committee on Implementation to follow up on the implementation of this Report. That is what Kenyans need to see because there has been a tendency that seeking these reports is an exercise in futility. Thank God for this Committee because we now have an independent Committee that can bring such substantive motions before the House, so that we can all interrogate and look at the details of what transpired. Hon. Temporary Speaker, recommendation No. of this Report seeks that the National Treasury gives us the strategy, measures, and how they intend to analyse the replenishment of the public resources utilised in the repayment of the guaranteed debt. That recommendation in itself will allow the National Treasury to give us the entire latitude on what they relied on to make sure that they paid all that is owed to Kenya Airways from the CFS. I want to support and thank the Committee for producing such a wonderful Report. Hon. Temporary Speaker. I beg to support.

Hon. Kimilu. He is not around. Hon. Rozaah Buya.

Hon. Rozaah Buyu.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you for the opportunity, but I am disappointed that you did not quite get my name right.

Hon. Rozaah Buyu.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Thank you.

I have known that name for more than 20 years.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am going to be very brief in support of the Committee's recommendation. Hon. Temporary Speaker, CFS makes the largest share of Government spending, but there are no regulations or laws governing how that money is spent. I support the Committee in The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

recommending that laws and regulations must be put in place if we are to know that the country is getting its money's worth. In the coming Financial Year 2024/2025, we can see that Ksh1 trillion is going to be spent on interest alone. We need to know what this interest is on. If we do not do that, we will be giving a clear path of money being spent in whatever way. We know that it is through the CFS that we draw not only salaries for independent commissions and the Presidency, but also salaries for pensioners. How then do we keep hearing pensioners crying that they have not been paid their pension? This is why I support the Committee’s recommendation that the National Assembly oversees the expenditure of CFS. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity.

Member for Suna West, Hon. Francis Masara.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Report of the Public Debt and Privatization Committee and commend them for the job well done. My main concern is about the money that has been injected into Kenya Airways for a long period of time using public money. It is true that we are not seeing any return to the public on whatever has been invested, First, I request the Committee to go ahead and request Kenya Airways to give us the total value of their assets. This is because we cannot over-invest money in a company whose total value might be more than what we are investing. Secondly, the National Treasury needs to come out clear on the issue of our debt portfolio. This is because, at a given point, you realise from the Report that they were estimating a huge figure based on the exchange rate. However, when the value of the dollar scales down, they still need a lot of money to finance our debt portfolio. In the Committee’s recommendation, you will realise that despite the National Treasury appearing before them and defending their document, the Committee was not certain about what the Ksh200 billion was going to be used for. Was it allocated for the redemption of the Treasury Bill shortfall in 2023/2024? This is an indicator that there is no transparency in how our debts are being managed. Therefore, I support the Committee on the issue of creation of regulations on how our debt portfolio can be managed in this country. Hon. Temporary Speaker, as a concerned citizen, I am also worried. When you compare our debt portfolio in the Budget and the expenditure on development and recurrent, the percentage given by this Committee is worrying. A serious economist will tell you that our country cannot sustain its budget. That is the reality. Therefore, this country needs to get its priorities right. Do we need to continue buying new vehicles? Do we need to continue renovating State houses and State lodges with billions? Do we need to spend a lot of money on hospitality? Do we need to refurbish houses which are there? Where are our priorities? The character of true leaders is seen when a country is in a crisis like this. Given the opportunity to govern this country, I would declare that nothing new should be done until we balance the debt portfolio and our income. If we do not do that, the public will continue paying taxes while crying yet the amount spent on debt does not match development. This means there is no hope for the citizens of this country. I urge every leader to reflect on this matter so that we can redirect spending towards essential projects that drive economic growth. We need to invest more in projects which can spur economic development in this country. We should not just invest for the sake of it but for the economy to stabilise. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Finally, I request the Chairperson of the Committee to not only propose but also follow up through the Committee on Implementation, so that the recommendations adopted in the House can be realised for the benefit of Kenyans.

Thank you.

Hon. Edith Nyenze, the Member for Kitui West.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to contribute to this Supplementary Budget. According to the Public Finance Management Regulations, supplementary budgets are exclusively for unforeseen and unavoidable circumstances. Any expenditure known before the original budget is finalised should not be considered unexpected. Every time we discuss Supplementary Budget 1 or 2, the budget keeps going up. The National Treasury should generate a comprehensive list of expenditures to identify areas in the Consolidated Fund where spending can be reduced, or made more efficient. They should prioritise expenditures. I look forward to when we will not take on more debt for at least two or three years. If we could do this and live within our means, then our problems would lessen. We collect a lot of taxes yet Kenyans continue to become poorer. Pensioners are not receiving their dues, teachers are demanding their pay, and doctors are crying in the streets, yet we continue to overtax them. I would like to see us not borrowing any money for at least two or three years. We should not overtax Kenyans. We can reduce our expenditure on development and recurrent costs until we are comfortable. Otherwise, I support and recommend that we live within our means.

Next is Hon. Eve Obara, the Member for Kabondo Kasipul. Is she here? You may proceed.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate. We know that the Consolidated Fund receipts are derived from our domestic and external resources. These resources come from taxes collected by the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), which is the principal tax collection agent for the Government. The revenue collected is then remitted to the Consolidated Fund. The issue of mismanagement of our resources has been with us for many years. In 2013, the Government of the time came up with a comprehensive list of institutions that had borrowed so much money and were insolvent. As we speak today, these institutions still exist and continue to consume funds without generating any results. I support the Committee’s Report. In the Report, Kenya has a clear policy on how to manage overdraft facilities. These organisations, Kenya Airways included, have borrowed against the policy but have not received any sanctions. Nothing is happening to them. So, I am happy to see the Committee’s recommendation that the National Treasury should submit regulations to the National Assembly within 30 days of the adoption of this Report on the overdraft facility. This is the right thing to do but these policies are already there. Hon. Temporary Speaker, you have been in service for many years and know that these policies exist and we just need to polish them. However, year in, year out we are still talking about the same thing. I hope that this time we are clear about what is happening. The Committee talks about reviewing all expenditures. We have performance contracts in this country and every quarter, agencies are supposed to review their expenditure in line with the budget they submitted. Again, we are still talking about the same thing yet these provisions are laid down. Policies on how to make organisations more efficient and prioritise expenditures that The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

directly contribute to the national development goals and critical functions are in place. I will not belabour the point because my colleagues have talked about this. Are we utilising our Debt Management Office effectively? Do we read the reports generated by this office? Unfortunately, we do not. The responsibility ultimately lies with us. We must ensure that the policies we put in place to protect and ensure the resources of Kenyans are properly executed. The ball is in our court. This time, let us ensure that the recommendations by the Committee, as presented in this Report, are adapted and fully implemented. Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Once again, I support.

Let us have Hon. Bensuda, the Member for Homa Bay County.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I also rise to support the Report tabled here by the Debt and Privatisation Committee. However, all these recommendations revolve around regulations or frameworks to be provided and implemented by the National Treasury. I will deviate a little from this. As my colleague, Hon. Eve Obara has mentioned, the policies exist. The question is: What are the gaps that this House needs to look into and fill? My main concern, besides the regulations, is that during yesterday's debate on the Equalisation Fund, I pointed out that we have a rogue National Treasury. We cannot have a National Treasury which is opaque in its planning; opaque in its policy implementation and opaque in execution and in the expenditure of the country. This country is undergoing opaqueness in provision of reports. The donkey, that is the country and citizens who are being taxed, are more than tired. I recommend that the Committee demands for an annual report on the debts this country owes in development expenditure, what was addressed, what was available and the tax increment annually. I also recommend that this House should demand for, at least, 10 years in chronological order of debt management. I know that there are various suppliers, both local and international, who are crying in this country. There are various industries which have shut down because debts have not been managed. Therefore, I request the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee to look into that. As we look into debt management, what about our local suppliers and contractors? They have not been paid huge debts. I register and let it go on record that there are contractors who have perished and died and left their families in a very bad state because they are owed debts. I know that we are waiting for the reading of the big monster tomorrow, that is, the Budget. We are very keen on heavily increasing tax. We say that we do not want to borrow and as an Hon. Member has stated, no one wants to live beyond their means. But, the question is, for the last 20 or 30 years this country has been borrowing and running. Therefore, tax should be increased gradually, systematically and in a manageable manner. We realise that, in as much as we are charged with payment of exorbitant tax in this country, debt is still a huge monster. We should check the variability and the margin difference of tax that this country is supposed to pay. I request the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee to move around this country even though we are talking about debt management and policy regulation. There are actual projects in this country that should be checked to ascertain whether their implementation was concluded. This is because at times we may be paying international debts which do not exist. Therefore, there is lack of transparency in the National Treasury. It is high time, as I mentioned yesterday, the National Treasury was swept properly so that we do not have people demonstrating and crying for salaries. We are talking of huge debts and yet there is no medicine in our hospitals and infrastructural facilities do not exist in our counties. The roads are in bad condition yet we talk of living within our means. The other day President Yoweri Museveni The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

recommended that we process our own raw materials so that we can have enough money. We cannot be talking of lack of proper strategies of ensuring increased resources in our country to manage our debt, minimise borrowing…

The Hon. Member for Homa Bay County is undoubtedly full of enthusiasm and energy. Let us have the Mover to reply because we do not have any more interest in this Motion. Proceed Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I thank Hon. Members for their contributions to this important Report of the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee. I assure Hon. Members that the Committee is going to take their comments seriously and follow them up. There are some things that were mentioned by our colleagues which the Committee will make sure we are on top of them. One of the things that was mentioned by the Hon. Member for Homa Bay County is the issue of equity and value for money. She said that it is high time Kenyans got value for the money that we borrow from our friends, from other countries and from development partners. This issue has been raised very many times and it is very closely tied to the issue of the debt register that can get us to know how much has been borrowed, at what rates and at what repayment terms among other things. On the issue of equity, it is important that the money that is borrowed for Kenyans is applied with a bit of equity so that there is also equitable distribution of these resources because at the end of the day, all Kenyans will pay for that debt The other issue is what Hon. Nyenze raised. I wish that one day this country will be in a situation where we do not borrow at all. The Hon. Member talked about a balanced budget where we are able to live within our means. I assure the House that this Committee will be pursuing very keenly the issue and ensure that we continue to reduce our budget deficit so that at the end of the day, we start a journey to live within our means. That is critical. The other thing that also came up is the issue of debt accountability. Hon. Members mentioned that the National Treasury appears not to provide proper accountability of the loans. This was mentioned by Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe when he talked about the Committee finding loans have been borrowed but there is a gap when it comes to delivery of goods and services. It is high time all of us, as a House, took matters of public debt seriously. From the analysis, we have seen issues of Consolidated Fund expenditures take the lion’s share out of our Budget. So, it is important, as a House, we take this matter seriously. The Committee on Implementation should immediately take up these recommendations and run with them in terms of implementation. With those very many remarks, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I once more thank you for giving me this opportunity. I also thank Hon. Members for their contributions. I beg to reply.

Hon. Members, I defer putting of the Question on this matter to another date.

Next Order.

Hon. Beatrice Kemei, would you also want this to be deferred to another date?

Thank you.

You are not willing to move it now?

Can we defer it, Hon. Temporary Speaker?

Fair enough. I understand you had sought approval from the Speaker that the Bill be allocated to another date. I so direct.

Next Order. Order No. 15.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Millie Odhiambo?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I wanted to inquire about the Care and Protection of Child Parents Bill because the Members were consulting loudly. I had been waiting for it. That is actually what I was keen on. I did not get your direction. I have just heard you moving to the next order.

We have just passed that order now. I have already directed that it will be put on the Order Paper on another date. I am sure in due time, you will know which date it is. I know you are passionate about children. Hon. Millie, I have known you for all these years and one thing that you have performed exceptionally, is protecting the children of Kenya. Therefore, we will pick a date. Next Order.

THE LAND LAWS (AMENDMENT) (NO.2) BILL (National Assembly Bill No.76 of 2023)

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On this order, the Leader of the Majority Party is also not around. I presume he has gone to attend to an urgent business. I direct that Order No.15 be deferred to another date. .

Next Order.

Is the Chairman of the Decentralised Funds Accounts Committee around? I do not see him in the House. I, therefore, direct that this Motion also be placed in the Order Paper at an appropriate time in the future.

Next Order.

I also do not see the Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee in the House. It is my presumption that he is also busy with some other business. Tomorrow being a Budget Day, I am sure that Hon. Members are busy with other things. I direct that this Motion be also placed on the Order Paper at a future date.

Next Order.

The Chairman of the Public Investments Committee on Social Services, Administration and Agriculture. He is equally not in the House. I direct that this matter be also placed in the Order Paper at an appropriate date in the future.

Next Order.

I do not see the Chairman of the Committee on Parliamentary Broadcasting and Library in the House. I also direct that this matter be placed on the Order Paper at a future date.

Next Order.

The Chairlady of the Committee on Regional Integration. The gracious lady is ordinarily a very efficient Member and Chairlady but I do not see her in the House today. Therefore, I also direct that this matter, based on the importance, be placed on the Order Paper on a future date.

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Next Order.

I equally do not see the Chairman of the Committee on Implementation. Like I said before, I know that tomorrow is a Budget Day and everybody is busy in other businesses. Under the circumstances, I direct that this matter be also put on the Order Paper on a future date.

Next Order.

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives. He is equally not in the House now.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Millie Odhiambo?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I am sure you must have noted that we are almost on the seventh Chairperson, and none of them is in the House.

Yes.

They are not taking their work seriously. I would want to encourage that you raise this matter further. If they are not interested in taking up those positions, they should let us know. We can help them and take over their roles. We do not know whether they are helping the Deputy President in carrying his suitcase. However, that issue has already been sorted out. So, they do not need to go and help him in carrying his suitcase.

It is an issue of concern. If we are here to deal with serious issues relating to the House and all the Chairpersons are not here, that shows they are not serious. We are only in the second year The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

of Parliament. If they are already tired in the second year and yet we still have three years to go, then they need to let go of their positions to other Hon. Members.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Rozaah Buyu?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. If you allow me, I would like to correct the Hon. Member who has just spoken, that the absent Members are not helping the Deputy President carry his suitcase. Instead, they are helping the Governor of Nyeri plan for the next maandamano. Thank you.

You seem to have information that we do not have, but thank you for your contribution. Under the circumstances I realise that this will also have to be deferred to another date.

Next Order.

The Chairman of the Committee for National Cohesion and Equal Opportunities. If I am not wrong, I think the Chairman of this Committee is from Mandera, but I do not see him. Hon. Aden is not in the House of Parliament. Just like the rest, I will also defer this to an appropriate date in the future. You realise that I am unusually lenient with these Chairpersons because tomorrow is the Budget Day. My presumption is that they are making last minute rushes here and there. Under the circumstances, I have also taken into consideration the sentiments of Hon. Rozaah Buyu, who said that they are involved in something else, although I do not subscribe to it.

Nonetheless, they are not here and I direct that this Motion also be put in the Order Paper at a later date.

Hon. Members, there does not seem to be any other business.

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Hon. Members, the time being 6.22 p.m., this House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 13th June 2024 at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 6.22 p.m.

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Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.