Hon. Members, we have quorum to transact business.

Hon. Members at the Bar, take the nearest seats. I have a short communication to make. Hon. Members, as you are aware, the National Assembly customarily organises various fora aimed at providing opportunity for interaction, experience sharing and capacity building for Honourable Members. Indeed, you recall that during the inception of the 13th Parliament, the National Assembly marshalled a number of engagements, including the 2022 induction retreat and the 2023 post-election seminar that was held in conjunction with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. It is against this backdrop and in keeping with the established practice that I wish to inform you that the National Assembly has planned a three-day retreat for all members between 27th and 31st January 2025 in Naivasha, Nakuru County. The objective of the retreat is to accord the leadership and Members of the National Assembly an opportunity to, among other things, take stock of the progress made during the First, Second and Third Sessions; and consider the expected key legislative matters. Hon. Members, coming at the mid-term of the current Parliament, the retreat will also provide an opportunity for the House to look ahead and plan for the Fourth Session and indeed for the remainder of the term. The retreat will be facilitated by experienced resource persons, including current and former Members of Parliament, and will include panel discussions and interactive plenary sessions. At the end of the retreat, Members will identify possible areas of the National Assembly's legislative processes that may require re-engineering to enhance efficiency. In this regard, I invite all of you to this very important event and implore all of you to make time to attend. I am aware that the Clerk has commenced logistical preparations for the activity, details of which will be communicated to you in due course. Thank you.

On a point of order.

Yes, Hon. Mbui. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Speaker, today is a Special Sitting, even though we are supposed to be in recess. I have just reviewed the Order Paper before us, and it does not conform to the purpose of the Special Sitting. The afternoon session only lists the appointment consideration for nominees to the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC), along with the two bills that we dealt with in the morning. There must be a serious problem.

Are you looking at the Morning Order Paper?

No, I am looking at the Afternoon’s Order Paper.

Have you seen the Supplementary Order Paper? We have a Supplementary Order Paper that strictly conforms to the call for a Special Sitting.

It is not available on the system.

Has it been uploaded?

No. I also thought that there cannot be a Supplementary Order Paper on a Special Sitting because it must align with what was in the Gazette Notice.

It absolutely conforms, Hon. Robert Mbui, for the simple reason that you, as a Member of the Committee on Appointments, had the laying of your report in the morning. Right? In the afternoon, the Supplementary Order Paper has now been prepared to include a Motion on that report. It does not deviate from anything that we gazetted or communicated to you. You may recall that yesterday we discouraged one of your colleagues from raising questions about some health issues today because it was not part of what we gazetted. I hope this is clear, Hon. Robert.

Yes it is.

You are a fast learner.

He is not? Next Order.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table: List of nominees to 62 National Government Constituencies Development Fund committees submitted by the National Government Constituencies Development Fund Board— 1. Ainamoi 11. Gatundu North 2. Baringo Central 12. Githunguri 3. Baringo South 13. Kajiado East 4. Belgut 14. Kajiado North 5. Bobasi 15. Kangema 6. Central Imenti 16. Kangundo 7. Cherangany 17. Kapenguria 8. Dagoretti North 18. Kapseret 9. Eldas 19. Kasarani 10. Gatanga 20. Kathiani The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

21. Keiyo South 42. Mumias West 22. Khwisero 43. Mukurweini 23. Kikuyu 44. Mwea 24. Kinangop 45. Naivasha 25. Kipkelion West 46. Nakuru Town West 26. Kirinyaga Central 47. Narok South 27. Kitui Central 48. Ol Jorok 28. Kitutu Masaba 49. Othaya 29. Kwanza 50. Saboti 30. Lafey 51. Shinyalu 31. Laikipia East 52. Sirisia 32. Laikipia North 53. Suna East 33. Likoni 54. Tarbaj 34. Luanda 55. Tigania West 35. Lurambi 56. Thika Town 36. Maara 57. Turkana North 37. Mandera West 58. Turkana South 38. Matungulu 59. Ugunja 39. Moiben 60. Wajir West 40. Mount Elgon 61. Webuye East 41. Mumias East 62. West Mugirango. Thank you Honourable Speaker.

Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table: A joint report of the National Assembly Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and the Senate Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights on consideration of the National Dialogue Committee (NADCO) and the report of the Multi-Sectoral Working Group on the Realization of the Two-thirds Gender Rule. Thank you.

Next Order.

Order, Hon. Murugara! Resume your seat.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Bowen, take your seat. I could not recognise you from your backside.

Next Order.

Chairman, the Kenya Women Parliamentary Association (KEWOPA), take the nearest seat.

Chairperson!

She told me she prefers to be called Chairman.

Mover, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the Persons with Disabilities Bill (Senate Bill No.7 of 2023) be now read a Third Time. I also request Hon. Zamzam, the Member for Mombasa County to second.

Hon. Speaker, I second.

Thank you.

Dr Nyikal, take the nearest seat. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I am satisfied that there is quorum in the House.

Thank you. Next Order.

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations in its Report on the Vetting of the Nominees for Appointment as Ambassador, Permanent Representative and Consul-General, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 16th January 2025; and pursuant to the provisions of Article 132(2)(e) of the Constitution, Section 20(2) of the Foreign Services Act, Cap. 185E and Sections 3 and 8 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, Cap. 7F, this House approves the appointment of the following persons as indicated—

Nominee Station 1. Dr Andrew Karanja Ambassador, Brasilia, Brazil; 2. Hon. Ababu Namwamba, Permanent Representative of EGH Kenya to the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) United Nations Office at Nairobi (UNON); and 3. Mr Noor Yarow Gabow, Consul-General, Port-au-Prince, CBS Haiti. Hon. Speaker, I will not go into a lot of the notes that I have here. I will go directly to the nominees. All of them are qualified in terms of their suitability and requirements needed before this approval. I will start with Dr Andrew Karanja. He is a seasoned scholar and an agricultural economist. In ascertaining his suitability, the Committee wanted to know what he would do since he does not have diplomatic training. He previously worked with the World Bank and is experienced in marketing the country’s products like coffee. Brazil hosts other seven missions. He indicated that he would use the experience and leverage his expertise in the agricultural sector to make sure that we, as a country, export our beef. He will also use his experience in Brazil to expand our agricultural market, particularly that of beef. As a Committee, we also asked him about his short stint in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development. He admitted that he is very poor in communication. Because he has a lot of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

experience, he thought that he did not need to speak much. All he needed to do was to work. Apparently, that does not work here. He implied that he would improve his communication skills. He admitted that is what made him exit the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development. The second nominee is Hon. Ababu Namwamba, who is not new to this House. He has worked in very many disciplines and spheres in the country. The latest one was being the Cabinet Secretary for Youth Affairs, Creative Economy and Sports. He implored upon the Committee that he had worked very hard in the Ministry of Youth Affairs, Creative Economy and Sports and the African Nations Championship (CHAN) that Kenya will host. Everyone is speaking about it. It was largely his contribution. He is a distinguished academician. He has also worked before as Chief Administrative Secretary (CAS) in the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. He is not new to diplomacy. He told the Committee that he would profile the UNEP and UNON offices which are hosted in Nairobi. However, many people do not appreciate the fact that we host some of the biggest UN units in Kenya. He promised to ensure that people appreciate that we host such a huge UN body in the country. We assessed Hon. Ababu Namwamba’s suitability. Beyond doubt, he demonstrated a very clear knowledge of diplomacy and international relations. It was very easy to engage with him, having been colleagues before. As a team, we were extremely impressed by his performance during this particular interview. Finally, we have Mr Noor Gabow, who is a career civil servant. He sharpened his teeth in the field of security. He worked in different areas in our security infrastructure, particularly in the Kenya Police. He rose from the ranks of a cadet officer to the Deputy Inspector-General of Police. He is a chaperone who worked in several missions, particularly in Sierra Leone and Liberia. He demonstrated extreme knowledge, particularly in the area he has been nominated to serve – Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Members will recall that when I stood before this House to seek approval to send our police officers to Haiti, I was particularly vocal with the information I got from people like Mr Gabow. This is also the information I use when I appear in the media spaces. He is very experienced in peacekeeping. He truly understands his role as a security officer. I remember a case where one of the Members asked him about his role in the Bomas of Kenya during the national tallying of the votes. If you remember, there was a bit of fracas at the national tallying centre. He owned up to some of the mistakes that happened at that time. It was not of their making. He said the people who created mayhem were accredited to be in that station. He said that such experiences prepare them even better as a police force to work in the future. I will go to the case of Madam Nyambura, whom I do not have in my notes. She was nominated to join the diplomatic office in Ghana, but she declined. This raises very serious questions. The Committee expressed its frustration, particularly when it seems that individuals who are posted to stations are either not aware or are disinterested yet their names find their spaces in the list of nominees. My Committee is particularly frustrated because we feel that as a country, we are creating unnecessary diplomatic tiff with countries we have enjoyed very good relationships with. Ghana is jinxed. This is the second time a nominee has declined to be posted there. My Committee expressed its frustration. I will use this particular point to seek guidance from you. I know most of these nominees are appointed by the President, after consultations which normally happens between the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs and the Head of Public Service. My Committee put on notice these officers that in future we should not waste space and time appointing people who do not even require the jobs. We sit with very many trained diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. They express their frustrations. It spits on their faces when there are nominees who do not even wish to go to stations and there are officers who have stagnated in the Ministry of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Foreign and Diaspora Affairs because that is the apex of diplomacy. Being called an ambassador and posted to a station is the apex of diplomacy. Many of them still work in the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. They are looking for opportunity to serve our country outside very diligently. Those opportunities are not given to them. I implore upon the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs and the Head of Public Service that in future they should not waste the Committee's time. They need to be extremely diligent on the individuals being posted on missions. Those are the eyes and ears of the President. Such embarrassments where officers who are posted to various missions decline because they are not consulted should cease in future. These are opportunities that very many Kenyans yearn for. It is imperative for those officers to make sure that they do their due diligence, so that officers who get their space and names on the table of the vetting Committee are consulted and ready to serve the country in those capacities. I promised that I would keep it short. I will not bore the House with too many stories. Therefore, the Committee recommends that this House approves the appointment of Dr Andrew Karanja to serve as Kenya’s Ambassador in Brasilia, Brazil; Hon. Babu Namwamba, EGH, as a permanent representative of UNEP and UNON; and Mr Gabow Noor, CBS, as a Consul-General, Port-au-Prince, Haiti. I do not want to read it because I have said that the Chief of Staff, the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs and the Head of Public Service should enhance their rigour of due diligence process and ensure that nominees are consulted, and that they concur and are ready to serve the country to avoid incidences of nominees turning down nominations. Hon. Speaker, I beg to move and ask the House to adopt the Committee’s Report. I request Hon. Major (Rtd) Abdullahi Sheikh, my Vice-Chairperson, to second the Motion. Thank you.

Major Bashir.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I wish to second the Motion that this House approves the appointment of the three out of the four persons nominated for appointment as High Commissioners, Ambassador, Permanent Representative and Consul-General. The offices of the High Commissioner, Ambassador, Permanent Representative or Consul-General are offices under the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. The duties of these various offices are pursuant to Section 21 of the Foreign Service Act (CAP 185E). I am sure we are all conversant with the rules. During the approval hearings, the Committee paid due regard to the procedure used to arrive at the nominees. We looked at the constitutional or statutory requirements relating to the offices and the suitability of the nominees for appointment regarding whether the nominees' abilities, experience and qualities meet the needs of the country's Foreign Service. Upon conclusion of the approval hearings, we scrutinized the personal, academic and career backgrounds of the nominees and we were fully convinced that the three nominees who presented their academic and professional credentials and made oral submissions during the approval hearings demonstrated their suitability for appointment in accordance with the provisions of Section 67 of the Public Appointments and Parliamentary Approvals Act (CAP 7F). Let me look at two of the nominees, starting with Hon. Ababu Namwamba, who is the nominee for Permanent Representative to the UNEP and UNON. He is well grounded on matters international law. First and foremost, he has a Master of Laws in International Studies in addition to a Bachelor of Laws from the University of Nairobi. He also served as the Chief Administrative Secretary (CAS) in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs from 2018 to 2022, where he gained hands-on experience in international diplomacy and represented Kenya in key global forums. Therefore, he will be able to serve well in this new role as the Ambassador. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Additionally, Hon. Ababu Namwamba is a former Member of Parliament. I am sure he has gained more in terms of parliamentary diplomacy. The second nominee is Mr Noor Gabow, CBS, the nominee for Consul-General to Port- au-Prince, Haiti. He holds a Master of Governance, Peace and Security as well as a Bachelor of Arts in Criminology. He is being sent to Port-au-Prince, Haiti. With experience spanning 36 years of service in the public sector, I am sure he will be able to contribute more effectively on matters of peace and security. The mission in Haiti, as it is, is mainly a mission of peace and security diplomacy. Remember we have our police force there. We are the lead mission on the ground and therefore sending somebody like Noor Gabow to this mission as the Consul- General will add a good impetus and improve the performance of our police force on the ground. Haiti is an example of a country where chaos has taken hold, with gangs controlling the seaports, roads and airports. However, with the presence of our police force, supported by the United Nations and the international community generally, and with Mr Noor as the Consul-General, we will be able to provide additional support to the mission. Mr Gabow has served in the Police Service for 36 years, rising to the rank of Deputy Inspector-General of Police. His main expertise is peace and security. Remember peace and security are key aspects in matters of diplomacy because we have peace and security diplomacy as a tool. Therefore, he will add a lot of impetus, support and experience that he has gained over the years to the mission in Haiti. Currently, Haiti is a place where we are taking the lead role, just as we did in South Sudan. Remember, we took the lead in South Sudan and after the country stabilized, we have had many opportunities for Kenyans in South Sudan. Therefore, opening a mission in Haiti and sending a Consul-General there will ensure that in the near future, when the country is peaceful, we will get opportunities there because we were the first country to deploy police force there and now we are sending a seasoned security expert, who is now a diplomat to the same area. Therefore, as a country, we will be able to respond by sending our produce and human resources to Haiti. It is very critical. As the Chairman mentioned, this is the second time a nominee for the position in Ghana has declined the posting. What we have learnt from this is that there is no due diligence being carried out by the offices concerned. We call upon the respective offices concerned, especially Office of the Head of Public Service to ensure that it carries out due diligence for persons nominated for these positions. The very least they can do is to contact them and ask whether they are ready or prepared to serve this kind of mission so that we do not get embarrassed in a situation where someone declines at the eleventh hour. As I conclude on matters of peace and security in Haiti, I want to take this opportunity to equally recognize what is happening in the global arena. Last night, Gaza had a ceasefire, an agreement between Hamas and Israel. I want to take this opportunity to thank the State of Qatar, its Prime Minister and the allies for concluding a ceasefire to ensure that the people of Gaza and the Palestinians can live in peace now and forever. I wish them all the best and may peace prevail. As I conclude, I wish to assure the House and the country that we have the right individuals to steer our foreign policy in the respective stations. We, therefore, recommend that the National Assembly approves the appointment of the three persons to serve as Ambassador, Permanent Representative and Consul-General in the respective stations. Hon. Speaker, I second the Motion and urge the House to adopt the Report. I thank you.

Thank you.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Members, resume your seats.

Yes, Hon. Junet.

Hon. Speaker, this is a very important issue. That is the reason why nowadays ambassadors have to be approved by this House. That was not the case before. The President would appoint individuals and they would go to work. We must make our views known because not all of us are Members of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations. We were waiting for the Committee to present its report here so that we could give our opinions on it. Having said that, I stand to support this Motion with a very heavy heart. Hon. Speaker, you have been a Minister of Foreign Affairs. Therefore, you know very well that the Foreign Service is not a dumping site. If you have served as a Cabinet Secretary and you have been dismissed due to incompetence, negligence or any other manner of accusations, you should not be nominated to serve as an ambassador. What is this knowledge that you could not use to run a ministry that you will be using to run a foreign embassy? Once you have been dismissed summarily, like some of these characters I am seeing on this Motion, they should go and look for other things to do. They can engage in farming and other activities in the country. It is not compulsory for one to be given a job. Let us emulate other developed democracies where if somebody is relieved of his duty, he has other things to do. You need to have other professions. If you are a doctor, go and treat people. If you are a lawyer, go and do your other work.

On point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Junet, there is a point of order from the Member for Kinangop. Yes, Hon. Kwenya.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Sadly, the Leader of the Minority Party is misleading this House. The former Cabinet Secretary he is talking about was not fired because of incompetence. The President did not state any reason. It is unfair for the Leader of the Minority Party to continue misleading this House that the person whom he is purporting to have been fired was fired for incompetence. In fact, he stated in the interview that he would serve in any capacity. His insinuation is enough for us to know who he is talking about…

Two of these nominees, Hon. Kwenya, are former Cabinet Secretaries. So which one are you defending? Both number one and number two are former Cabinet Secretaries.

None was fired because of incompetence. We took them through a rigorous process when we were vetting them. They are equal to the task. Indeed, they said that they can be assigned any role by the President.

Order, Hon. Kwenya. To the extent that the appointing and firing authority gave no reasons, it is left to anybody's conjecture. So, Hon. Junet is not out of order. Hon. Junet, take your seat. Hon. Members, today is a Special Sitting and we have three Motions to deal with at Order Nos.10, 11 and 12 before we go to Orders 13 and 14. I want to propose to you to agree that we assign Orders 10, 11 and 12 an average of an hour each. If you want to truncate the time so much, the better. I will watch the trend of contributions. If it is repetitive and tautological, I will invite the Mover to reply. If there are different views, I will be happy to hear them. Is that agreeable by the House? Hon. Junet, go on. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Yes, Hon. Keynan. You will contribute if you catch the Speaker's eye. Proceed, Hon. Junet.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am happy that you have protected me from the wrath of Hon. Kwenya. Maybe, one of the nominees who was dismissed is from his village and he is seeking a new job through an ambassadorial appointment. The House should look into this matter in the next appointments. If you were a Cabinet Secretary and you are reassigned to become an ambassador, that is fine. It is a fact that you have been relieved of your duties. I am sure the one Hon. Kwenya is alluding to is a Cabinet Secretary who barely served for three months. Why should you be relieved of your duties within barely three months of being appointed? If it is not out of incompetence, what else can it be? If it is on health grounds, then you should not be assigned another job. You should stay at home. Why am I saying so? I want competent Kenyans who are career diplomats to get space, so that they can serve this country at the apex of ambassadorial work. As it has been said by the Chairman of the Committee himself, foreign service is a calling. It is a very important job that cannot be done by anyone because it requires certain skills. Hon. Speaker, you nurtured many people when you were the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs. One of the things I admire about you is your diplomatic credentials. I am being honest because we have fought here many times. You tell me that in our mother tongue it isdeji meaning, calm down. This job requires special skills. If you could not run a ministry, what skills have you acquired within the last two weeks so that you can deal with foreign embassies? This job must be taken seriously. Most importantly, before somebody is given the job of an ambassador, the Executive should do due diligence. You cannot give somebody a job and when she is told to appear before a Committee she says she is not interested in the job. There are many Kenyans who want that job. Surely, why should you be guessing whether a person wants it or not? A former Cabinet Secretary was proposed to Parliament for vetting as an ambassador to Ghana and declined. This is the second time someone has declined going to Ghana. Initially, a former Member of Parliament declined. Now, a former Cabinet Secretary has declined. Why should we beg people to take jobs? Many Kenyans are jobless and have the requisite qualifications to serve this country in Ghana. It is the headquarters of the African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA). We need to have a very important person there and not jokers who do not want the job. We are the ones sending experts to Ghana. If there are no experts on the other side, they should tell us. We shall give them experts to send to Ghana under the broad-based arrangement. We have experts who can work in Ghana. If you give me 10 minutes, I will produce one under the exchange programme of experts in the broad-based Government.

Hon. Deputy Speaker.

On a point of information, Hon. Speaker. I think it is important for him to find out the challenges that made Hon. Margaret Nyambura not to take up the position. She confirmed that there were certain family challenges that prevented her from leaving the country. Therefore, she preferred having a job in the country. I think he needs to find out the issues before castigating her or the work station. Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I think the Deputy Speaker did not hear me well. First, if you are to send me on a mission on behalf of Parliament to London, you will ask if I am available from a certain date. So, before you bring The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

somebody's name to the National Assembly for vetting, you must ask that individual whether he or she is interested in the job. That is when the name should be brought here. We would not want to hear excuses like, ‘I want to do sugarcane farming in Migori where I have a big farm.’ That is an afterthought. Ask me whether I am interested in the job before giving me an opportunity to serve. This is not the first or second time this has happened. I do not want it to happen again. They should give chance to Kenyans who are sure and willing to serve the country out there. In conclusion, I support the Motion because some of the nominees I see here can do well. Let us give them a second chance and see how they will serve this country because they failed in the first chance. With those few remarks, I support.

Hon. Martha Wangari.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also agree with Hon. Junet that we should give them a second chance. Sometimes a Member of Parliament may not do well but when he or she becomes a senator or governor, they do an exemplary job. Since they have not been dismissed on grounds of being ineffective or doing anything against the Constitution, let us give them a chance and allow the appointing authority to do as he wishes. I sat throughout the vetting process. It has come at the right time when we are reviewing our foreign policy as a country to align it with the shifting global dynamics and our national interests. That is why these appointments are very crucial. The issue of Dr Karanja, who is a very well-grounded and renowned academic with immense experience, has come at the right time. We are expecting to hold the Conference of Parties (COP)30 in Belem, Brazil this year in November. We hope he will help us to navigate through as we send our team to negotiate and make progress for our country. Another issue we raised with Dr Karanja is the ambassadorial missions becoming the first stop of Kenyans living outside the country, especially when students are stranded or we have issues in other countries. The ambassadors must be reachable, accessible and responsive to citizens outside the country. The ambassadors, permanent representatives and consul- generals project the image of the country and the President to the outside world. I also agree with the previous speakers' statements on when a person declines an appointment. This is sending a very bad picture of Accra City because it has been rejected twice. As the Mover said, the Head of Public Service should consult with the appointing authority so as to ensure that if someone is not ready to take up an appointment, they reject it at the right time. Let the name of such person not get into the Gazette Notice. Once it gets there, even if you write to the Clerk, it would have already gone out to the public. Timing is very critical. The issue of linking our country with other counties is very important. The world has become a global village. We hope that these three appointees will do a good job. I want to also speak about Hon. Ababu Namwamba, a person who served in this House for 10 years and was a CAS. We interrogated his knowledge and ability to represent us at the UNEP and UNON. Despite UNEP and UNON being hosted in this country, if you go to Switzerland or New York, you will see the linkage between the national and domestic interests with the United Nations (UN) offices located in those areas. I feel that UNEP and UNON located in Gigiri feel detached from what we do in this country. I hope that, as he promised, he will act as a bridge between getting the Bottom-up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA) and the national interests of this country linked with those offices. Let Kenyans also feel as part of the global world. The issue of Haiti is very critical. The person nominated to serve there is Mr Gabow. He has been in the police for over 30 years. He ended up as the Deputy Inspector-General and was dealing with policy implementation at that level. One question that we put up to him is that The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

as we already sent our first contingent of police officers to help restore peace in Haiti, we will be looking up to him that he be the go-between those officers for the obvious reason that they are not unionised. It would be unfair or unfortunate for our issues, especially the welfare of those officers, to go to the media. We see them on British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) complain that their welfare is not being taken care of. We hope that when Gabow is appointed and approved by this House, he will do a good job to ensure that he is the go-between these officers and, of course, other Kenyans who are in that area who would actually be threatened by any issue or would be having an issue of welfare they would wish to communicate so that they can sort it out in-house before it gets out.

That being said, I hope that, as a country, we can develop a foreign policy as it is being done now that is based on fundamental principles of peaceful coexistence through the Ministry so that we can preserve our national security and also have peaceful co-existence in the global world and where we sit. With that, Hon. Speaker, I support. Thank you.

Hon. Sunkuli.

Hon. Speaker, I support these appointments. Being appointed an Ambassador to China is one of the biggest and most important jobs you can get in a country. Actually, it is the only time you can be called your Excellency without being elected, and that shows you the importance attached to this particular office. I concur with the Committee except when I listen to the Chairman of the Committee describe, for instance, Dr Andrew Karanja. I listened to our friend and mother, Hon. Martha from Gilgil, say he is well educated. However, the Chairman says that we appointed him notwithstanding the fact that he cannot communicate very well. Hon. Speaker, of course, the duty of an ambassador is to communicate, to speak for and on behalf of the country.

The issue of communication is omitted all the time the ambassadors are vetted or appointed. Such does not happen in Western countries: that you are appointed to a Portuguese- speaking country and you cannot speak Portuguese, or you are appointed to a French-speaking country and you cannot speak French? It can never happen. If Dr Karanja does not communicate well in English, what do you think of him communicating well in Portuguese?

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker .

Order, Hon. Julius. There is a point of order from Hon. Wangari.

Hon. Speaker, I do not remember anyone saying that Dr Karanja cannot communicate effectively in English. He is a PhD holder and is fluent and conversant in English. Our only issue with him was that he did not speak Portuguese. However, we have had others, including you, appointed ambassadors without speaking the local language in the countries they were sent to.

Hold on, Hon. Sunkuli. Hon. Junet.

I also say that having a PhD does not mean that you know English. You can have a PhD and not know English. The other day in Eldoret, one university gave honorary degrees of PhDs, and people were in gowns. How did those people speak English? How can you confirm that those Members speak English?

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Order, Members. Hon. Sunkuli, I appointed you to China, yet you did not know the Chinese language.

That is why, with the benefit of the insight, I am able to advise that it becomes a problem. I, however, took immediate action and learnt Chinese. Hon. Speaker, you can attest that I could translate some Chinese for you when you came to China. In the future, as we draft this policy, let us take that into consideration so that we can appoint people who are fit for the purpose. When I talk about lack of communication, I was referring to the speech of the Chairman of the Committee that Dr Karanja said that he is going to improve his communication skills once he gets to Brazil.

Hon. Speaker, I also commend His Excellency, the President for appointing Mr Noor Gabow as Consul-General.

Hon. Bashir, what is the issue?

Hon. Speaker, I want to inform Hon. Sunkuli.

Hon. Sunkuli, do you want to be informed?

Yes.

Go ahead.

Hon. Speaker, I want to inform Hon. Sunkuli and the House that the point where our Chairman said that the nominee said he is going to improve on his communication skills was not particularly on the speech. We asked him why, when he was the Minister for Agriculture, he kept quiet when so many things were happening, including the issue of vaccination. He said there was a lapse and that he will improve his communication skills with the public and the people he serves in the future. Thank you.

That is why I said he was appointed despite that fact. Hon. Speaker, I thank His Excellency, the President, for appointing Mr Noor Gabow as Consul-General to the Port-au-Prince in Haiti. Brazil is the only place where we have our Embassy in South America. I hope that this position that Mr Noor Gabow has been appointed to becomes a position where he is an ambassador to the Caribbean rather than just a Consul- General to Haiti, but a testament, Hon. Speaker, of the fact that the mission in Haiti is getting some fruits.

Contrary to what we had predicted in this House, the brave sons of Kenya are, at long last, making a difference in Haiti. I hope Mr Gabow's presence in Haiti and Port-au-Prince will enhance our responsibilities there. It is very important that we eventually take this office away from Haiti to, in fact, Kingston itself so that the rest of the Caribbean can come under Kenya's loop because we need the Caribbean countries when it comes to our diplomacy. We have our foot in South America and need to extend that to Santiago, Chile. We now have our foot in Port-au-Prince and need to extend it to the rest of the Caribbean.

Hon. Speaker, the Ambassadors abroad ought to be well looked after. I do not know the current position, but when I last visited some countries, it looked like the salaries and some of the allowances were delayed. It is very embarrassing if the Embassy abroad does not get its payments on time. Hon. Speaker, I support. Thank you.

Thank you. Hon. Mutunga. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

(Tigania West, UDA

Hon. Keynan, what is the problem? I see an officer in mechanical gear trying to fix it. If I give you a chance to speak and it is not working, you will get a portable microphone. Go on, Hon. Mutunga.

Hon. Speaker, we have had a few issues in the sector, especially the issue of vaccination, which needed to be properly delivered to Kenyans. It could have been anybody here and any Embassy, in this House or this country. However, Hon. Speaker, those issues are technical and require the competent authority to respond. The competent authority on this matter is the Director of Veterinary Services. So, maybe we should be asking ourselves the extent to which the Director of Veterinary Services came out and responded to the issue of vaccination. I thank the President for realising it is necessary to put Dr Karanja in Brazil. Brazil is the hub of agriculture in the South American region. Brazil influences agricultural products worldwide because they sell a lot to most parts of the world. Brazilians access more markets than we possibly could. They are much more advanced in research on various products. We can gain a lot in opening doors for Kenyans and for technology transfer from Brazil to Kenya. Having had an agricultural background and being in a place where he can identify what is good and useful for us, I believe Dr Karanja will do a good job helping Kenyans. Very briefly, I want to speak about the appointment of Mr Noor Yarow Gabow as a Consul-General. I remember very well that we had a heated debate in this House on why we should send Kenyans to die in Haiti. I have not found any Kenyan who has died in Haiti up to now. In any case, Kenyans are being commended for their good work. It is an outgrowth of that opening and the relationship we created with Haiti. I appeal to colleagues that sometimes we need to be objective in whatever we say so that we may also open up doors and avenues for Kenyans. Kenyans are in Haiti and earning a living, maybe even an extra coin from such international engagements. Hon. Speaker, I will briefly describe our UNEP appointment. UNEP is based here in Nairobi. We strongly believe that the appointment of Hon. Ababu Namwamba will especially help us investigate environmental issues in this country. It will connect the policies, legal, and regulatory instruments we are using in this country with what is happening at the UN. It will also help us improve our statements at international negotiation tables. I also believe that it will take time to identify what other countries do so that they are impactful when it comes to the outcomes of negotiations. In most cases, we do not take the right people to the negotiating tables. Sometimes, we pick institutions that may not have the correct personnel to go to negotiations. I appeal to Hon. Ababu Namwamba to look at negotiations once he takes this position. Let him look at the determinations of our proposals to the various issues under the table, especially when it comes to the United Nations Framework Conventions on Climate Change and when the conference of parties is meeting. With those few remarks, I support the adoption of this Report.

Keynan, there is a microphone behind you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important Report. Diplomacy is, by definition, the art, science, and other means states use to interact with other nations to safeguard their national interests. That being the case, modern-day diplomacy was born out of the Vienna Convention of 1961. The convention also provided the basis for diplomatic engagement to promote, project and protect the interests of countries. During your time as the Minister for Foreign Affairs and when Amina took over later on, I am aware that we had, for the first time, adopted a written foreign policy that provided five pillars as the basis for our diplomatic engagements. They are peace diplomacy, economic diplomacy, diaspora diplomacy, environmental diplomacy, and cultural diplomacy. This being the basis of our foreign diplomatic pillars, what is an individual supposed to have? This is a specialised field, as individuals have alluded to. When appointed, you are first expected to be the interface between Kenya and your assigned country. Other than educational qualifications, there are basic things that we sometimes fail to appreciate. In the past and before the collapse or the end of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), diplomats used to be appointed purely on ideological persuasions. Things have changed today because economic diplomacy is the first thing in our engagements. As much as these three individuals are qualified, their first objective will be to pursue track one diplomacy, meaning state-to-state relations. However, there are other things that they are also expected to do through track two diplomacy. That is the role of non-state actors in our diplomatic engagements, particularly with the UN. As a former Cabinet Secretary and a parliamentarian, Hon. Ababu Namwamba is one of the most qualified individuals to represent Kenya at the UN. Although the role has been dispersed completely, this entity is the only one of its kind south of the Sahara. The functions of the UNEP that were supposed to be here have been dispersed to Spain, Portugal, and other countries. Just a few months ago, Kenya was given the status of being the only non-NATO allied member south of Sahara, the fourth in Africa. This is not a mean achievement. This comes with pride and prestige. Therefore, individuals appointed to these positions must first be educationally qualified. They must be individually spirited and ready to represent Kenya in all aspects of their international assignments. Thus it begs a question, and that is why I agree with the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations that there must be some engagements before individuals are assigned or nominated to these positions. Presidential appointments are very lucrative and important, so individuals should not turn down these offers at the last minute. I agree with the Chairman that in future before some of these individuals are nominated or assigned, they must have some informal interaction. This is what the Chairman has alluded to. It is the right thing to do. I know you are a product of this. The appointments come when Kenya is being challenged economically and politically on the global platform. These diplomats have to be prepared for very many issues. I agree with what Hon. Sunkuli said. Linguistic reference or preparedness is very important. When assigned, you are an intelligence officer, an economic representative, and a political representative. Knowing the language of the community where you are expected to serve is very important. I ask the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations and other Members to ensure that linguistic preparedness is a must for some of these individuals in the future. If posted to a Portuguese-speaking country, you must have the basics. If going to China, you must also have the basics. Otherwise, you will waste your first two years getting ready. That will be a waste of time. Terms will have changed, and your tour of duty will have almost ended when you have done nothing. I think this is a very important suggestion. It is not that we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

are not happy with the appointing authority. It is a way to assist the individual in becoming productive as soon as they take up the role. The world is experiencing a crisis today—the Middle East crisis, the Ukraine and Russia crisis, and the regime change in the US. It is high time that Kenyans appointed to these positions were individuals who could stand the test of time. They should be prepared individuals with the skills and interests of this country at heart and willing to go out of their way to promote this premier nation. You are aware that some of these postings used to be a dumping ground after one failed in all other things. I want to attest that parliamentarians or politicians remain the best all-round ambassadors this country has ever had. You are a witness, and you know it. The fact that you are a politician does not mean you are incompetent or inappropriate. I disagree with those who say that about individuals like Ababu Namwamba and many others who have been politicians. I can tell you that they remain the best ambassadors this country has ever had. Let us support our colleagues. To be a former politician is not a curse. To be a former Cabinet Secretary is also not a curse. However, consultation is also important because you must be prepared for the job. Hon. Speaker, I know you are also a seasoned product of this Ministry. This is one of the things that we should be encouraging because we have opened too many missions. Are these missions contributing to the Republic of Kenya's economic well-being or just expanding our political engagements? Hon. Chairman and colleagues, as a former Chairman of this Committee, one of the things that you should do is go around and find out the economic contribution of some of the missions we have opened. If they were established through political persuasion, we need to close them as soon as possible. If they will add value to our economic growth, then we need to look everywhere: east, west, north and south. That should be our diplomatic engagement. It is one of the things that we have proudly entrenched throughout the years. Finally, this appointment comes at a time when there is much debate on the position of Kenya. Will we join the League of Developing Nations, or will we be competing with ourselves? Over the years, we have been competing with ourselves. Today, if you reflect on Ethiopia's Gross Domestic Product (GDP), it is almost two-thirds of Kenya's GDP. A few years ago, Ethiopia was a struggling economy. A few years ago, Uganda depended on Kenya. Today, Uganda is not our favourite trading partner. Look at Tanzania… What happened to Kenya? We have reduced ourselves to an inward-looking nation that cannot put food, water and other amenities on the table. We need to think of what happens outside Kenya and create opportunities. Many youths are either unemployed or underemployed. They are looking to the leadership to give them opportunities. The opportunities will not come if we are a State that politics from morning to evening. With that, I urge my colleagues to support this Motion. I also urge the President to appoint more politicians to this very important diplomatic engagement. I support these appointments. Thank you.

Thank you. The one hour is over. Mover.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker and Hon. Colleagues, for your enriching contributions. If you may have noticed, I did not interrupt most of the comments from the Hon. Members. Their contributions will make our Committee better, and we will reflect on them as we process the products that we will be bringing before this House in future. I also want to thank my able Committee for their contribution. The Committee did this during recess. Almost 99 per cent of Members were present. I appreciate our Committee, the parliamentary staff and the entire secretariat that worked with us in preparing this Report. Without much ado, I beg to reply. Thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you. Can the Hon. Members on their feet take their seats? Hon. Wamuratha, take your seat.

Hon. Karemba.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to move the following Special Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental Committee on Labour in its Report on the Vetting of nominees for appointment as Vice-Chairperson and as Members of the Public Service Commission, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 16th January 2025, and pursuant to the provisions of Article 233(2) of the Constitution and sections 3 and 8 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, CAP 7F, this House approves the appointment of the following persons to the Public Service Commission– 1. Mrs Mary Wanjira Kimonye, CBS

- Vice-Chairperson; 2. Mr Harun Maalim Hassan

- Member; 3. Ms Mwanamaka Amani Mabruki, CBS - Member; 4. Mr Francis Meja

- Member; 5. Dr Irene Cherotich Asiega

- Member; 6. Mr Boya Molu, EBS

- Member; 7. Ms Joan Andisi Machayo

- Member; and 8. Dr Francis Otieno Owino, CBS

- Member. I wish to confirm to this House that, as I tabled the Report earlier today, the Committee sat down earlier this week on 9th October 2025 and conducted the vetting exercise. The Committee made its observations on the suitability of the nominees. I wish to confirm to this House that the nominees – the Vice-Chair of the Public Service Commission and the members – are suitable for the positions. They are Kenyan citizens, and they do not hold dual citizenship. The nominees presented their academic credentials and professional certificates during the approval hearings. I am confirming to the Hon. Members that they are well-educated, and the Committee has noted that. None of the nominees holds an office in any political party. We ascertained that none of the nominees held a political party office, contested for any elective position, or was dismissed from office under Article 75 of the Constitution. The nominees met the requirements of Chapter 6 of the Constitution on Leadership and Integrity, having obtained clearance from the Ethics and Anti-corruption Commission (EACC), the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), the Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI); the Office of the Registrar of Political Parties (ORPP); and the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB). The nominees demonstrated an impressive grasp of topical, administrative and technical issues in the Office of the Vice-Chairperson and a member of the Public Service Commission. It is good to note that most of these nominees are people who previously served in Government and have vast experience. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

The Vice-Chair nominee was a Permanent Secretary who served in Government for many years. We established that she has extensive experience in public service. Some of the members had been Permanent Secretaries before. A person who has been a PS before has adequate knowledge of how Government works. Hon. Speaker, the Committee also established that the nominees understood the Commission’s challenges, they will be able to deal with its current and future challenges. By doing so, they will ensure that it is a commission that is desired across the country or Kenyans will be proud of it like other places in the world. So, Hon. Speaker, in view of the above, on behalf of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, I am happy to move this Special Motion on the Consideration of the Nominees for Appointment as Vice-Chairperson and Members of the Public Service Commission. I beg to move and now request that Hon. Leah Sankaire second.

Hon. Leah, go ahead.

Kajiado County, UDA):Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I also rise to support this report from the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, of which I am a Member. Hon. Speaker, the members vetted displayed exemplary skills and vast knowledge of public service. Hon. Speaker, as my Chair said, most of them, having served in various positions in this Republic of Kenya in different portfolios, including as Permanent Secretaries previously, are well conversant with various challenges in the public service. They also gave proposals on how to solve the issues. We were happy with their vast knowledge of the public service. Hon. Speaker, we do not doubt that upon their appointment, they will improve the service delivery and restore public trust in the public service. I am particularly drawn to one member, Mr. Francis Meja, who hails from Kajiado County. Having worked before as a Director of the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA), he displayed exemplary leadership skills. He automated most of the systems there, which we enjoy today as Kenyans. Hon. Speaker, all the nominees were people with vast knowledge. We are confident that they will transform the leadership. They will transform the service delivery in public service. Hon. Speaker, with this, I beg to support the report. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Members on their feet, take your seats.

Put the Question!

Is it the mood that we put the question?

Yes, Hon. Yusuf. You do not want to agree with the rest of the Members? Let me put the question on the proposal.

Okay, go ahead.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I support the report of the committee. This is one of the most diverse commissions the Public Service Commission has ever composed. From the national cohesion and equal opportunity point of view, we have someone from the North Eastern region in my constituency. This is the first time in the history of Kenya to be represented in this Commission. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

You see someone from Upper Eastern, Rift Valley and Nyanza. This means this is a regionally balanced commission. Since this is the Commission that looks at public service employment and recruitment, we expect the outcome to be quite different from what it used to be. Last year, my Committee of the National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity audited the Public Service Commission. We looked at the previous recruitments, and the issue was very pathetic. There was too much leaning to certain parts of this country, while others were not represented. So, by having diverse representatives of the Commission, we expect the products of this will be the same in the future. Marginalised people, minority communities, and gender have been considered. In particular, Harun Maalim Hassan, who is a permanently disabled person from my constituency and who, from childhood, has been very...

Order, Yusuf. Yes, Hon. Member for Bumula.

Hon. Speaker, whereas I have no personal issue with anybody on that list, is the Member in order to mislead the House by saying that the list reflects diversity when we have a Chairman and Vice Chairman coming from the same region? Hon. Speaker, is the Member in order to mislead the House; Muchiri and Wanjiru Kimonyo to be specific?

Thank you, Hon. Chairman. There is no Chair on the list we are discussing today. So, I am talking about nominees who have just been named here. We have no Chair here. The ones I am looking at are representatives of this country. As I was saying, I sincerely thank the appointing authorities for considering once somebody from Mandera West as a Commissioner of the Public Service Commission.

You are repeating yourself.

Yes?

You have made your point. You are repeating yourself.

Thank you. With these remarks, I support the Committee's findings.

Hon. Zamzam, and you are not supporting the findings of the Committee. You are supporting the Motion before the House.

Mombasa County, ODM): Asante Mhe. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili niweze kuunga mkono hawa walioteuliwa. Kwanza ninampongeza dada yetu, Mwanamaka Amani Mabruki, anayetoka katika jimbo la Mombasa. Ni mwanamke ambaye ni msomi, mpole, mchapakazi, na ambaye ameweza kuhudumia Public Service miaka mingi. Huyu ni mtu ambaye tunamuamini. Ninataka kuwaambia wote walioteuliwa, Mhe. Spika, kuwa waweze kuhudumia jamii bila kuwa na mapendeleo. Nikimwangalia huyu Harun Maalim, amekuwa ni mtetezi sana wa watu wanaoishi na ulemavu, na nina imani nafasi hii ambayo amepewa itamwezesha kuhudumia walemavu kwa njia iliyo sawa. Sijui mambo ya Mwenyekiti na naibu wake, lakini kama ni kweli, Mhe. Spika, ijapokuwa majina hayako hapa, ingekua vizuri kama naibu wake angekua anatoka sehemu nyingine ili tuweze kuchanganya. Lakini hata hivo yule ambaye anaweza kupewa kazi, apewe na afanyie Wakenya wote kazi. Asante Mhe. Spika.

Hon. Ngogoyo.

Thank you, Hon Speaker. I want to be very brief. I rise to support the Motion. Hon. Speaker, the Executive makes errors many times by bringing bad appointees. In this case, regional diversity can be seen. I want to single out Mr Francis Meja, who hails from Kajiado, former registrar of motor vehicles, former Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director for the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA), a gentleman who has served very well. I think Hon. Ichung'wah and Hon. Osoro, on this one, you can sing the song “Kasongo”. It now sells better in this one. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

With those many remarks, I wish to support the Motion on the Floor of the House, and you can sing, "Kasongo Mumbai nanga."

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Osoro.

Hon. Speaker, I rise to seek clarification from Hon. Ngogoyo on the relevance of the song “Kasongo” to the appointment and the Motion before the House.

He is out of order, cheeky, and irrelevant. Go on, Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. Let me also join my colleagues in supporting this Motion. However, I want to make three observations as I support it. The first one is that the public service in this country is facing a number of challenges, and I hope that this new Commission will address them, especially the issue of succession. We have a situation where we have very elderly people and very young people, but there is a gap in between. This matter has been discussed for some time, and as a country, we need to ensure that this Commission will get it right for effective public service. The second matter is the issue I raised last time we were discussing the two commissions, the Independent Policing and Oversight Authority (IPOA) and the other one. As a House, our work is oversight. I am surprised to see some of our colleagues getting very excited when they see people from their regions on the list. However, as a House, it is important that we look at the totality of these commissions. I am unsure how that can be done, as I do not know whether we consider who else is in which commission at the committee level. I wish the House could access the list of constitutional commissions and the individuals currently sitting in them. That would help the country ensure there is regional balancing. I think a Member raised a very important point of order. Interestingly, we have a high-ranking commission like the Public Service Commission, which is almost equivalent to the one you chair, Hon. Speaker - the Parliamentary Service Commission - having both the Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson from the same region. I do not think Kenya is short of professionals who could sit in these positions. Therefore, the issue of balancing is important for effective management so that it does not appear like some regions have been left out while others are in. As a House, we need to start paying attention to these details because it will help the process. Lastly, the Public Service Commission is also supposed to take care of capacity building. A number of these senior public servants have been employed for a long time. As a House, we need to consider supporting them with a budget for capacity building. Some of them never get a chance to be trained to upgrade their skills. The challenge has always been that whenever we want to reduce the budget, the training budget, being a recurrent expenditure, is often removed. So, at the end of the day, you have well-trained officers who are not getting short-term courses to upgrade their skills. So, that is another area that the House needs to ensure that when we are reducing the budgets, we do not cut the training budget, as this is how we can improve the skills of the public servants. With those remarks, I support.

Hon. Ali Raso.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I will be brief. First of all, the Public Service Commission is almost the principal constitutional commission that employs. When we say that the Civil Service is lopsided, it is because the Public Service Commission is not doing a good job. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Secondly, it is about promotion. In most senior cadres, you must appear before the Public Service Commission to be appointed to a particular position in Government. Thirdly, it is about the face of this country. If you do not have somebody in the Public Service Commission, the chance of you getting to a position that you desire is very rare, and it is like walking in the desert. As a parting shot, I want to say that once this Commission is in place, it must visit all parts of this country to get views on representation. Why are certain communities not in Government? With those few remarks, I thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

. Yes, Hon. Chepkonga.

Hon. Speaker, I see that we have unanimity in terms of the approval. Would I be in order, under the Standing Orders, to request that the Mover be called to reply or that the Question be put? Hon. Speaker, as you know, we have just come out of our recess. It would only be fair that the Question be put, because we are all in agreement. There is no one opposing. Thank you.

. I had already given the Floor to Hon. Rahim Dawood.

(North Imenti, Independent

Hon. Owen Baya.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I congratulate the members that have been nominated. I also congratulate the Committee for a good job. I want to thank the President, the appointing authority, for considering gender. You can see that we have almost five women in this Commission. That is an excellent step in promoting gender equality in this country. I also want to thank the President for appointing a lady from the Coast to serve in the Public Service Commission. Public service is the engine of Government, and these commissioners have a duty to ensure efficiency and effectiveness in the management of Government. They will fail the country if they do not do a good job in recruitment. Therefore, I want to tell them they have their clothes cut for them. They need to do a good job so that public service in this country can take off and become efficient and respected worldwide. Thank you.

. Hon. Members, can we call the Mover to reply?

. Hon. Muchangi Karemba. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I wish to thank the Members who have added their voices in support of this Motion. Indeed, the Committee did its work. I also wish to thank the Members who sat with me to vet these nominees. I wish the incoming Commissioners and the Vice-Chairperson all the best as they execute their duties as the new commissioners of the Public Service Commission. I hope they will take this country forward in the spaces they will occupy. My attention is also drawn, like that of Hon. Rahim Dawood, to the sentiments made by Hon. Wamboka. For those of us who come from the Eastern Region, we do not like being referred to as people from one region. The Vice-Chair comes from the County of Meru, whereas…

Hon. Karemba, you are the Chair of the Committee. If you want to delve into the rigmarole of sectarian politics, it is not right.

Hon. Speaker, I am not trying to move into that space. I am only trying to insinuate that...

The good lawyer next to you should advise you.

I wish to thank all the Members who have added their voices to this Motion. I beg to reply.

That is better. Do not be tempted to draw yourself into sectarian politics.

Order, Whip of the Majority Party and Hon. Bashir. You cannot be engaging on the Floor when the Speaker is on his feet. It would have been better if you froze there, but you are chatting away with the good lady from Aldai. You must maintain studious silence.

Dr Nyikal, check what Hon. Kajwang’ has been consuming for lunch.

Next order.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Dr. Nyikal is a very good medical doctor. Therefore, you are right that he could check if there is any problem with Hon. TJ Kajwang, whom we cannot afford to be without in this House. Dr Nyikal must ensure he is okay.

Hon. Junet, what is your point of order?

Hon. Speaker, is it in order for the Leader of the Majority Party to become a pollster and mislead the House that former Governor Kabogo was the best when he knows there is a sitting governor serving the county called Governor Wamatangi? When I asked him about Wamatangi, he said, “I do not know that one.” When did that change? Has Mr Wamatangi stopped being the Governor of Kiambu? Let us be fair. Mr Kabogo might have done a good job, but can you tell us something about Mr Wamatangi?

Hon. Speaker, I hear the Leader of the Minority Party. I am speaking about the nominees on this list who are former governors: Kabogo and Lee Maiyani Kinyanjui. With my knowledge and as a constituent of Kiambu County,and not as a pollster, I am capable of ranking performance in terms of output and delivery of services to the people. Former Governor Gitau Kabogo William ranks number one so far. Governor Wamatangi has time; he is the current governor. He is now competing with The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

former Governor Waititu in terms of who will perform better. Former Governors Kabogo and Nyoro did exceptionally well. You can ask anybody from Kiambu County. They will vindicate me. I will stand vindicated by the people of Kiambu. I am also vindicated by the people of Nakuru County when I say that Governor Lee Kinyanjui midwifed the ascension of Nakuru County from a municipality to the city that Nakuru County is today. This is something that is known even by Kenyans at large. As I said earlier, these nominees are not new to the public service. They are seasoned politicians and seasoned public officers. I pray and hope that when they take over their offices, whether it is Hon. Mutahi Kagwe in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development, Hon. Lee Kinyanjui in the Ministry of Investments Trade and Industry or Hon. Gitau Kabogo in the Ministry of ICT and Digital Economy, they will serve all the people of this country with the dedication and commitment that we have seen them serve in the various other capacities that they have served the nation in. There are challenges in the Ministry of ICT and Digital Economy with the rollout of the fibre optic cable. Additionally, during the vetting process, Hon. Pukose mentioned the need to ensure that the far-flung corners and districts of our country are also connected to the internet. If approved by this House, the Cabinet Secretary nominee, Hon. Kabogo, has a challenge to ensure that every corner of this country has internet accessibility. He should not just ensure that people are getting Government services through e-Citizen but also ensure that Kenyans saying that you can finya komputa upate dola can work online from any corner of this country. You do not need to be in an urban area in order to access internet services but even those in El Wak, Karachuonyo and far-flung corners of Turkana County can also access internet services. I am happy that during the vetting process, Governor Kabogo articulated that he will explore new technology, like the Starlink, to ensure that people in far-flung areas who cannot get internet access through the fibre optic cable, access internet connectivity and jobs. He also promised to bring sanity within the digital space. Hon. Mutahi Kagwe has his work cut out. I am happy that during the vetting process he clearly articulated the challenges that bedevil our agriculture sector, including productivity in the agricultural sector, access to markets and making agriculture profitable to farmers. I am glad that he articulated how he will work to make agriculture profitable and ensure that our country is food secure. He also promised that there will be access to markets and good prices not just for the tea, coffee, milk and pyrethrum farmers but also for the potato and sugarcane farmers. As I challenged Hon. Mutahi Kagwe during the vetting exercise, I pray that he will not be swallowed by the cartels that have swallowed even other ‘bigger people’, not just in that ministry, but even in ‘bigger offices’. There are people, in this country, who were given the responsibility to midwife the access to markets for our coffee and tea farmers, but they became cartels themselves. We have heard tales in this country where somebody demanded Ksh3 per kilogramme of coffee being exported out of this country. I pray that Hon. Mutahi Kagwe will serve the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development with the diligence and integrity that we saw him serve in the ministries that he served before. As I said earlier, Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, my good friend from Nakuru County, did well as Governor but he now has his work cut out for him. The Ministry of Investments, Trade and Industry now falls on his shoulders. He has rather broad shoulders which I believe will carry this Ministry to the next level where it ought to be. It is shameful that less than 20 years ago, our country was leading in terms manufacturing as a percentage of our GDP. In the region, not just in East Africa, but in East, Central, and Southern Africa, with the exception of Botswana and South Africa, Kenya had the highest percentage in terms of manufacturing contribution to our GDP. But today, neighbouring countries like Uganda that were largely importing manufactured goods from Kenya are ahead of us. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

According to the 2023 statistics, Uganda's manufacturing industry has grown to contribute at least 15.65 per cent to their GDP, whereas Kenya's is at a level of about 7.3 per cent, less than half that of Uganda. When and how Uganda overtook us in manufacturing is a challenge that Hon. Lee Kinyanjui has to reverse. There is no sector that can create more jobs than manufacturing. I believe that if we leverage on increased productivity in agriculture, good technology and technical skills amongst the youth in this country, it is possible to grow industries and increase our manufacturing sector's contribution to our GDP almost threefold, to at least 20 per cent. We have stagnated at about 7 per cent for the last 12 years, and time is nigh. I believe that Hon. Lee Kinyanjui has what it takes to improve this. I have confidence that these three cabinet secretaries have what it takes to move us to where we want to be as a nation in terms of implementing the Bottom- Up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA). Hon. Speaker, I know there are issues and note that there are memoranda that were filed before the Committee on Appointments, which we all considered. The nominees were given these memoranda, and they responded to them. One of the salient issues in these memoranda was the question of two-thirds gender rule. As Members know, it is good to inform the country, that we look at the Cabinet composition in its totality, and not these three nominees. Therefore, in terms of adherence to that two-thirds gender rule, we are doing well. There are still slots that are available in the Cabinet. I ask, His Excellency the President, Hon. William Ruto, to ensure that there are, at least, both genders, not just one gender, in his next appointments. This will ensure that we truly conform to the two-thirds gender rule. But as we are, even without the full composition of Cabinet, we have done well with, at least, six cabinet secretaries, including the Attorney-General, being ladies. In terms of regional balance, it is true, and there are issues that were raised, that these three nominees hail from one region. It is true that they all hail from one region. But again, we look at the composition of Cabinet in totality. The composition is representative of our population numbers. The representation of our communities and various regions in Cabinet is well represented. That should also shut those who have been intent on inciting the people of the region where these members come from. I know there are those who have said that Mount Kenya Region was being represented in Cabinet by people who are not known. But there are people and Kenyans who also deserve to serve in Cabinet. Some of those people like Dr Andrew Karanja were appointed, with a very good Curriculum Vitae. I am glad the President has given him an opportunity to go and serve the country in Brazil. All the other Cabinet Secretaries who had been appointed earlier, and are capable, can serve in other capacities. These three gentlemen: Hon. Mutahi Kagwe, Hon. William Kabogo, and Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, are not coming in to serve the people of Mount Kenya. Agriculture and Livestock is not in Mount Kenya alon, neither is trade and investments. They are joining these dockets to serve all the people of Kenya as cabinet secretaries. I encourage them to serve the people of Kenya without any regard to the regions they come from. They should serve people fairly and equally. For example, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development, where the State Department for Livestock Development falls, should consider the people of Marsabit County, even in their pastoralist activities. They should be considered just like the people of Othaya are considered in their coffee farming or the people of Limuru in Kiambu County in their tea farming. Equally, they should be considered the way the people of Kikuyu are considered in their small-scale potato farming. I say small-scale because we live on pieces of land measuring 50 by 100 feet. We also rear livestock and are key stakeholders because we are butchers in Dagoretti. I am saying that so that all these cabinet secretaries serve us as Kenyans. Nobody should ever look at them on the basis of the regions where they come from. There are others who may have wanted or attempted to be cabinet secretaries. It is sad that today we have cabinet The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

secretaries who are tempted to play to the public gallery and excite emotions on the basis of ethnicity and the regions where they come from by inciting communities against others. It is sad. During the vetting process, the three gentlemen showed that they look at Kenya as one unitary state. I hope and pray that they will serve Kenyans without regard for where anybody comes from or what language they speak. I wish them all the best and I implore all of us to approve them so that although the Cabinet is not fully constituted, at least, those who are serving in acting capacities can now hand over their duties. Hopefully, by the next Cabinet meeting, they would have been sworn in and taken over the service of Kenyans. With those many remarks, I beg to move and request the Leader of the Minority Party, Hon. Junet Mohamed, who also sits in the Select Committee on Appointments, to second the Motion in agreement.

Hon. Junet.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to second this Motion for the adoption of the Fourth Report of the Committee on Appointments on the approval hearings of nominees for appointment as cabinet secretaries. Hon. Speaker, as the Leader of the Majority Party has alluded to, I sit in the Select Committee on Appointments that you chair, where I interacted with the three nominees for appointment as cabinet secretaries. I realised that people who have been elected by Kenyans as Members of County Assemblies, Members of Parliament or governors are tried and tested and can show leadership when required, compared to those who have not held elective position. I am not saying that because I have been elected several times. The three nominees have demonstrated immense knowledge and experience in handling public affairs because some of them managed some of the largest counties in the country. Hon. Lee Kinyanjui was the Governor of Nakuru County, which is one of the largest counties in the country, even in terms of population. That has given him a lot of experience from what I saw when he appeared before the Committee. Hon. Kabogo has also managed one of the largest counties. The Leader of the Majority Party testified that he did a good job when he was Governor. That has given him a lot of experience. The other nominee was the Senator for Nyeri County and a Cabinet Secretary at a very difficult time when this country was dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic. He handled it very well and many lives were saved. Public service has imparted a lot of knowledge and experience to the three gentlemen. I do not think there could be better people to serve in those ministries than the three gentlemen. I have said many times that public service is a calling. You should do it as long as you have been given the opportunity, Leader of the Majority Party. However, when the time comes and you feel that the Executive that you are part of, and the President and Government that you are serving, are not compatible with your policies or beliefs, the best thing to do is to resign. Do not bring commotion or unnecessary fights within the Government. Be man enough and declare that it is enough, you do not think that what is happening is what you came to do, and for that reason, you want to leave. It is only in African societies and democracies where somebody disagrees with the policies of a government or what is happening in the government but still wants to stay there. To do what? Someone told me that if you give an African man the keys to a washroom and tell him to use the washroom and bring the keys back, he will put them in his pocket and tell you to inform him when you need them so that he gives them back to you.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Wamumbi, can you give us time because I want the Leader of the Majority Party to listen to what I am saying? If you no longer believe in what the Government is doing and you are a Cabinet Secretary, just resign. You are not welded in Government like iron. Just leave. When we were impeaching the Deputy President, he was asked to resign since Members of Parliament had lost faith in him. A pastor in his home told him that he had been put there by God and should remain there until he is removed by God. Thereafter, God spoke through angels to Members of Parliament and they removed him. God’s work happened in this Parliament. Someone told him that he had been put there by God and only God could remove him. Hapana ! God can remove you in many ways. Impeachment comes from God because by the time 300 Members of Parliament agree on something, it is the hand, work and voice of God. Do not wait for God to come to your house to talk to you. If you think you cannot serve the Government anymore, go and farm or become a professional. If you are a lawyer, go and open a law firm and serve the country in that sphere. You cannot be a Cabinet Secretary who issues contrary views to what your Government is saying. It is actually immoral. I recently saw my good friend whom I learnt a lot from as he was sitting in the chair where the Speaker is. I learnt everything I am doing in this House under his supervision. When he was the Speaker, he told me that if I am tired of something, I should leave. However, he is now accusing the people he is serving of many things but wants to remain in his position. That only happens in Africa. It is unfair to target people of certain communities. I am now a leader in this country. I am the Leader of the Minority Party, a constitutional office under Article 108 of the Constitution. If my son is arrested by the police, I should also tell the country why he was arrested instead of saying he was arrested by so-and-so. Give the reasons why he was arrested. Why wait for seven months to tell Kenyans your son was arrested? Why did you not tell them that your son had been arrested on the day he was released and drop names that you went to the President and he told you to call so-and-so. Where is the secrecy of oath? Or, what is it called?

Oath of Secrecy. Why not discuss things at that level with the people who are concerned? You may have the opportunity to go and see the President and people in high offices, but what about Kenyans who cannot access those places? How will they be served? As a leader, what kind of trend are you setting? You are saying that anybody who wants to get help must visit people in high offices. A country cannot be run like that. I hope the cabinet secretaries who are being approved today will not behave in the same manner. If that becomes the modus operandi, we will not have a Cabinet. We do not need to waste our time in this House approving people who will defy the same Government they are serving. Hon. Speaker, such manners should not be allowed in any society. One must stand for something. If you strongly feel what is happening is wrong, leave. People in mature democracies leave over something smaller than this. Coming back to the point, the three gentlemen we are approving today will also not represent certain regions. Cabinet Secretaries are appointed to serve the Republic of Kenya. Every Kenyan deserves their service. If they behave the way people who have been impeached are behaving like coming to my constituency to bring salamu from your home, I will chase you away. Dismissal of cabinet secretaries is not only the prerogative of the President. This House has a constitutional mandate to also dismiss Cabinet Secretaries the same way we are approving them. So, if you behave in a very tribal and awkward manner, nothing stops us from filing an The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

impeachment motion and removing you from office. If you want Kenyans to believe your son was abducted and it took you seven months to tell them what happened, who will believe you now? Seven months is a long period of time. I called a police officer under the privilege of the House and he told me that people are arrested over many things. You can be arrested because of dealing in drugs, money laundering or many other things. An arrest is not an abduction. We must condemn abduction, but we cannot condemn arrests. Police officers are paid to arrest people. That is their work. If I break the law today, they will arrest me. It is legal in our laws for a policeman to arrest me or anybody else. I want to emphasise the issue that cabinet secretaries must serve all Kenyans. If you want to serve your village, become an MCA or chief. Do not become a cabinet secretary. For example, there is a senior chief who is meeting people in Wamunyoro Village. Every day that local chief is meeting people. Do you expect me to travel all the way from Nairobi to go and meet him in that village? What is the name of that village? Wamunyoro. I cannot go.

If you want to be like that go back to your village. If your desire to serve Kenyans as a cabinet secretary, then serve them all irrespective of their region, community or religion.

On a point of information, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Member for Mathira. Hon. Junet, do you want to be informed?

Yes. Especially, by somebody from Wamunyoro Village.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to inform Hon. Junet that Wamunyoro is a good village in Mathira Constituency. It has a chief who is a very good man who serves all his people with dignity. There is only one disgruntled man who is meeting people with long beards, who do not know where they are going. Let us not discuss a good village like Wamunyoro because of this disgruntled man. He does not know where he is going or coming from. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

I want to thank the Member for Mathira for informing me that Wamunyoro is a very good place which I have not yet visited. I need to pay a courtesy call to him so I can see how good Wamunyoro is. Why am I using Wamunyoro as an example? I cannot travel from Wuoth Ogik in Migori all the way to Wamunyoro Village so as to get Government services. All Government services are national. The Cabinet Secretary must come to my place in Got Jope to serve me from there. I should not go to Wamunyoro Village. That is why we retired someone to Wamunyoro. I am sending a warning to the cabinet secretaries, if they behave as if they are from Wamunyoro village and only want to serve people from there, we will sack and impeach them. They must serve all Kenyans. If you only want to serve your local people, become an MCA. The local people are served in the wards. There are people who think they have become cabinet secretaries to serve their region, community or tribesmen. No! A Cabinet Secretary position is national. If you want to remain as a Cabinet Secretary, you must remain national. I know the three people we are approving today are experienced. They are national leaders who have served Kenyans before. For example, you know that almost every community of this country lives in Nakuru. Many communities are now living in Kiambu because nowadays it has become an extension of Nairobi. These are the kind of leaders we want in Cabinet. I want to congratulate President Ruto because in terms of diversity, I do not think any other President got it right more than him. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Very few communities are not represented in the Cabinet. Almost all communities and counties have a representative in the Cabinet or Executive. This is the way we want to build this country. That is why the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) has sent experts to the broad-based Government and we have more to send so that, that diversity can be felt and achieved. The ones who want to retire to their village in Kanyuambora should let Kenyans do other things. If you want to become the chief of Kanyuambora, just go ahead. Do not bring issues here that so- and-so abducted my son. That will be another Wamunyoro Centre. Just go to Kanyuambora Centre and stay there. Thank you, Hon. Speaker. With those few remarks, I support.

Order. Take your seat, Hon. Owen.

Yes, Hon. Wangwe.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Allow me to first and foremost support this Motion on Consideration of Nominees for Appointment as Cabinet Secretaries. I want to thank the President for taking his time and getting the right candidates for these positions. I have a view that the three candidates… I want to enumerate in particular, Hon. Mutahi Kagwe who I happened to interact with prior to his appointment. I find him as a very strong candidate for this appointment and feel the performance he displayed during his tenure as the Cabinet Secretary for Health will follow suit. I wish to let him know that we all look forward to him putting the agriculture sector in order. We want to see the aspiration of the President of ensuring that sugarcane farmers earn bonus fulfilled. We want the brokers in between who want to affect the chain of distribution in the agriculture sector dismantled. Hon. Mutahi Kagwe must put his foot down and ensure we do not get fertiliser that is doubtable. Let the Government’s agenda be to give us fertiliser at Ksh2,500 or even lower be implemented so that we get the right fertiliser for our input. Marketing of our products in terms of how and where to sell them should be widely done so that we ensure that what is good is implemented. Hon. Speaker, we are now implementing the Sugar Act, and I would like to request Hon. Mutahi Kagwe that should this House consider and approve his nomination, he should make sure that it concludes what has been started so that we make the sugar sector independent, and get the Act implemented. Speaking about Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, I had the privilege of working with him during the previous campaigns, and I found him a very astute member of any organisation. Him having been a Governor, I thank him and want to tell him that the docket of Investment, Trade and Industry that is being bestowed on him is not small. It is a docket that balloons the economy of our country because all that we manufacture must get to their destination, and all that is possible to invest especially for any small-scale person who relies on this docket. We want to see him work hand-in-hand with the National Treasury to open up sectors that we need to supply our products. Let us open up the manufacturing sector so that we do not just say we want our youth to get employment. Let our youth get job opportunities and especially where foreigners and those people with money can invest in good industries to add value to our economy. As an agricultural economy, we must add value to our produce, and that is where Hon. Lee Kinyanjui is going to come in. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Speaker, on Information Communication Technology (ICT) under Hon. William Kabogo, I do not have the benefit of having worked with him but having felt him as a Governor of Kiambu and a Member of this House, he was forthright. I went to the Hansard, and you could see how astute Hon. Kabogo was on the Floor, and how he could force and push issues. We want him to push Kenya to move to the next level of ICT. Let us not be manual and mechanical but rather move to the next global frontier. We must look at the issue of the internet supply and communication. The internet is not meant for disabuse but for communication. It is also not meant for ridicule. Let Hon. Kabogo come in and know that he should be able to put the provisions as they are supposed to be so that we have fair play, for everyone who using the internet to do it within the law. It is not an issue of the youth. Many a time, people have said the youth are abusing the internet. That is wrong. Even the elderly, when they speak on the internet platform, must inform each other rather than abuse each other. These nominees stand a good chance. Let us approve them so that we all move forward as a country and get our spaces filled. Thank you, I support.

Hon. Bowen.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to support the three nominees for the Cabinet Secretaries positions. I want to say a few things starting with Hon. Kagwe. I support his nomination as a Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development. When Hon. Kagwe was the Cabinet Secretary for Health, at a very difficult time when the country was fighting the COVID- 19 disease, he proved himself as a capable Cabinet Secretary in the Ministry of Health then. Agriculture is the backbone of our country. In the last few months, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development has been on the wrong for many things, especially fertilizer. Many farmers were affected a few months ago because of the fake fertilizers which were there last year. I want to ask the Cabinet Secretary nominee as he takes over the Ministry, once he is approved by this House, to make sure that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development becomes the backbone our economy. He should support the farmers of this country to produce enough for this country. It is important when a majority of Kenyans, 90 per cent of our people are farmers, are getting a little support from the Government. The cartels we have in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development are quite a number. There are many middlemen in coffee and tea farming and farmers do not benefit from their produce. We seek that once the Cabinet Secretary is in that office, he should be able to help the Kenyan farmers. On the issue of ICT under the Hon. Kabogo, if approved by this House as a Cabinet Secretary, it is an emerging technology that has many challenges; from fraud, hacking and many things. There is a need to regulate the industry. There is a lot to be done in the industry to make sure that the new ICT digitisation in the country is used for the benefit of the people and the young people, and that it is not a platform for abuse or for people to do illegal activities. When it comes to Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, we want also to support him in the Ministry of Investments, Trade and Industry. Our imports and exports determine our balance between the shilling and the dollar. When we have a lot of exports as a country, we benefit from foreign exchange. Currently, we are importing more than what we are exporting. So, we expect that when Hon. Lee Kinyanjui comes in, he will take up the Ministry to the next level to benefit Kenyan traders. I support the three nominees.

Hon. Irene Mayaka, proceed. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also take this opportunity to support the nomination of the three appointees: Hon. Mutahi Kagwe, Hon. Lee Kinyanjui and Hon. William Kabogo. These three men have one thing in common. They have a wealth of experience. They each have done unique things within the sphere of their previous appointments that make them exceptional. Just as has been said by previous Members, we want to encourage these cabinet secretaries to focus on their work nationally. We all remember very well how Hon. Mutahi Kagwe was instrumental during the COVID-19 period. One of the things that impressed me when I watched the interview was when he spoke about engaging the youth in the agricultural sector. This is because we are a largely, an agricultural country but our youths are not interested in that space. Some of the ideas that he shared in terms of how he would engage the youth in this space were very impressive. The other thing that the Hon. Mutahi Kagwe spoke about was the use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology in the agricultural sector. That is very progressive. It is being used in other countries. It is very enlightening and exciting to hear a Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development Cabinet nominee talking about engaging AI in weather checks and increasing our agricultural produce. I support the nomination of Hon. Lee Kinyanjui. He was a fantastic Governor. It is not only that. Those of us who worked with him in the Azimio Secretariat remember how Hon. Lee Kinyanjui really assisted us in having a Youth Volunteer Movement across the country. He was very magnanimous in how he shared his wealth of experience with us. Finally is on Hon. William Kabogo. When his nomination was announced, someone asked me why they would take someone like Hon. William Kabogo to the ICT space. However, those of us interested in that space know that Hon. William Kabogo did a lot of digital transformation in Kiambu County. While there, he ensured that there was free Wi-Fi in the urban centres of Kiambu County. He ensured there was a digital county transformation service that included educating the people of Kiambu County to engage in financial systems. There is more on the digital revenue collection system. While I was a Member of County Assembly, I remember Kiambu was one of the counties we visited for a learning experience. It is because they strengthened that system and had a cashless system within their digital system. For sure, this nominee really understands that environment. Without overstating what has already been done within the ICT sector, we want to ensure the entire Kenya has fibre optic. I really like the fact that he already has knowledge in this space. The nominee, Hon. William Kabogo, also spoke about the unethical use of social media and protecting the youth from the harmful use of social media. I also heard him suggesting that we should get into regulating the social media space. We do not necessarily need to gag people from social media like TikTok, X and Facebook. We can introduce regulations within these spaces. Konza Technopolis and having investors come on board to grow it is the other very interesting thing he spoke. I would like to say and encourage something. This is because we are saying that we want our cabinet secretaries to work for the whole of Kenya. It is my wish that the Executive actually has a rotational model where cabinet secretaries go to different parts of this country and work from there two weeks in every month. That is so that they understand what Kenyans are going through. They will understand the different spaces that their ministries and dockets engage. That way they will serve all Kenyans very well. We do not need cabinet secretaries confined at the headquarters in Nairobi. I wish they would rotate and go everywhere. With those very few remarks, I support the nominations. I thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Wamumbi. Hon. Members, I will be calling the Mover to reply at half past 5.00 O’clock. Those I am giving opportunity should take as little time as possible. I recommend two to three minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Obliged. I also rise to support the Motion that seeks to approve the appointment of Hon. Mutahi Kagwe, Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, and Hon. William Kabogo, as cabinet secretaries. I specifically ask Hon. Mutahi Kagwe to take the issue of vaccination very seriously. The President has just come back from the United Arab Emirates (UAE). He was in search of market for our beef. Only the well-vaccinated livestock compete in the markets out there. We saw him saying during the interview that it is not a forced exercise. It is for the willing. We continue to urge our farmers to welcome this vaccination. It is for the advantage of their beef, to fetch good markets out there. Finally, I assure and sympathise with the people of Mukurweini where Hon. Mutahi Kagwe was born and where he comes from. It is very bad that their MP is not in this House to stand with them as we approve their son. I have seen him in a burial somewhere, propagating the fake itungati narrative. He was supposed to be in this House to approve a son of Mukurweini. Instead of coming to this House to approve a son of Mukurweini, he is in a funeral somewhere propagating the fake itungati narrative. I assure the people of Mukurweini that we will make sure their son is approved to serve all Kenyans. I thank you Hon. Speaker.

The Women Representative of Kwale.

Basi, asante sana Mhe. Spika kwa kunipatia nafasi hii mimi pia niunge mkono uteuzi wa Mawaziri hawa watatu ambao walipitishwa na Kamati ya Uteuzi hivi majuzi na kuletwa katika Bunge hili leo hii. Ninaunga mkono tu na kuwapa Mawaziri hawa nasaha yangu kidogo. Ndugu zangu, mmechaguliwa. Pia, tunawachagua sisi kama Wabunge wa Bunge la Taifa kwa roho moja. Mimi ninatoka Kwale. Mnapofanya kazi, Mawaziri wetu, ningependa na ninaomba mjue Kwale pia ni kaunti kati ya zile kaunti arubaini na saba. Mnyoshe mkono kwetu pia. Mhe. Spika, Kwale ni kaunti iliyo na ukulima na mashamba yaliyo na rotuba nyingi sana. Sisi Wakwale pia ni wafugaji wazuri sana. Hata hivyo, utapata mara nyingi hatuwezeshwi katika ukulima na ufugaji wetu katika Kaunti yetu. Hatuwezeshwi kisheria na kifedha. Bado tunafanya ukulima ule wa zamani ambao hauwezi kwa sasa. Ulimwengu umefika mahali tunahitaji ukulima wa kisasa. Bado sisi tuko nyuma sana kwa mambo ya ukulima na ufugaji. Tunafuga kama nilivyoeleza. Nilikuwa na matumaini makubwa sana wakati Mhe. Salim Mvurya alichaguliwa katika Wizara hii ya Investment and Trade. Nilikuwa na matumaini nikijua kila mtu anajua mahali kiatu kinamchoma. Mhe. Mvurya angekuwa mzuri sana kwa kurekebisha Kwale. Kwa sababu hawa pia ni Wakenya wenzetu, ninawapatia kongole. Lakini waangalie sana Kwale kwa kuwa sisi hatuna viwanda. Base Titanium imeenda, inakufa. Mambo yake yamekwisha. Tuko na Ramisi Sugar Factory, ile iitwayo Kwale International Sugar Company Limited. Hatuwezi kusema tuna kampuni ya sukari Kwale. Hatuna viwanda ndani ya Kwale kabisa. Mawaziri, mnapoingia, nasaha yangu ni kuomba mjue Kwale pia ni kati ya zile kaunti arubaini na saba. Mtunyoshee mkono. Asante sana Mhe. Spika. Sitaki niseme kwa urefu sana. Ninaunga mkono uteuzi wa Mawaziri hawa.

Hon. Martin Owino.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I congratulate you and your team as I rise to support this Special Motion. You sat through it all. We watched and took notes. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I would like one item introduced into our vetting exercise. We passed in this House to have quarterly reports from our ministries. How I hope we had those reports. If Hon. Kagwe were a Cabinet Secretary, for instance, we would have a report from the Department to tell us how he performed in that section. That report would also help the Leader of the Majority Party to refer. It would be the same with the other gentlemen from the Senate. It would be better if we could be citing reports from these sectors, other than individual verbal appreciations or others saying the three nominees impressed them much. Hon. Speaker, as a Member of the Departmental Committee on Health, Hon. Kagwe is competent and I know he will do a good job. If approved, I would like to urge him to start with the more pressing issues bothering Kenyans. Having come from the Ministry of Health, he values health. The issue of pesticides Hon. Speaker, is causing a lot of harm to our people. As we speak, over 310 products of pesticides are used in this country. Pesticides have been connected to six cancers and if not checked, it can bring us more harm. As for Hon. Kabogo, we have built digital innovation hubs in every ward according to the presidential initiative. I have three wards in my constituency with the digital innovation hubs. I have written too many letters to have them equipped which has not yet been done. As for Hon. Lee Kinyanjui, how I wish he can prioritise building industries in our rural settings so that our kids do not have to migrate to urban areas to be slum dwellers. By doing so, he will bring value addition to our natural products. With those remarks, I support the three nominees.

Hon. Wamuratha. Give her the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also stand to support the approval of the three Hon. Members of this country that bring in a wealth of experience from the past times that they have worked for this nation. I congratulate the three of them for getting this opportunity and for being approved to serve this country. I also echo the words that were said by our Hon. Leader of the Majority Party to Hon. Mutahi Kagwe who was the Cabinet Secretary for Health during Covid-19 period. He brought in a whole wealth of experience to a point that he even identified with all the children in the country to the extent they even had a name for him. I remember one child who used to call him “ mtu wenu wa corona ” because he had spoken about Covid-19 to the point children understood about it.

He related well with the young people especially through his quotes not forgetting the quote “if you continue treating this disease normally, it is going to treat us abnormally.” I would like to request Hon. Kagwe to come with the same great slogans to the young people so that he may teach them agriculture and enable them to understand that agriculture is also a way of earning a living. Most of our young people do not believe that agriculture is a way of earning a living. If he comes with the wealth of experience that he has, I want to believe that our children are going to identify with him.

I also congratulate Hon. Kabogo who comes from the county that I represent, Kiambu County, together with Hon. Lee Kinyanjui who also comes with a wealth of experience considering that both of them have served as governors in densely populated counties that are cosmopolitan. I thank the President for considering these two people who have served with Kenyans and served in counties that have a population of all the communities in this country. We want to believe that as they come in, they will come to serve Kenyans and not their region. I believe that Hon. Kabogo will manage to handle the issue of ICT. I remember when he was a governor, there used to be free Wi-fi in hospitals. One time, I visited a maternity hospital in Kiambu Level V and there was free Wi-fi which is not there today. I believe that if he brings all this kind of information that he has, we will move to go to the next height. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Lastly, these nominees are taking office when there is a lot of heat and political noise in the country. I pray and request that they come in…

Your time is up. Hon. (Dr) Nyikal.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity. As I support the nomination of these gentlemen, I have two important observations and points that I want to bring out.

The issue of regional and ethnic equity, although we played it down and said that it is something that should be looked at, I cannot blame them for that because they did not appoint themselves in this position. It is something we should look at in the future.

The second thing is these are gentlemen who have worked well but again there are two particular points for Hon. Kagwe and Hon. Kabogo that did besmirch them. During the Corona virus period, Hon. Mutahi worked well but the Covid millionaires’ scam raised queries during vetting to which he responded well. Hon. Kabogo also addressed well the allegations of the lady who mysteriously died, though the biggest problem we have in this country is integrity. We may start to look at the principle of being as spotless as a bishop’s wife but I know because of what they have done they will prove themselves beyond those allegations.

Another point to note Hon. Speaker is that, the three of them can solve the problem of unemployment amongst our youth if they work together. I believe that it is agro-industry that will be our industrialisation that can employ our people. That is industrialisation sector led by Hon. Kinyanjui, agriculture sector led by Hon. Kagwe and ICT sector led by Hon. Kabogo. These three areas can create massive employment opportunities for our youth.

With that Hon. Speaker, I support.

Hon. (Bishop) Kosgei.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I wish to support the Motion about the nominees into the various ministries as outlined by the Committee. I also congratulate the Committee for having had a thorough conversation among the three. We watched from the comfort of our homes and I congratulate them for their performance. They indicated maturity in the ministries they are going to serve and also the experience that they are bringing to the Government. I wish to appeal to the Members that this House approves their appointment.

We have witnessed a trend of Members of the Executive violating the Oath of Secrecy in Government. This is not a good tradition and trend. I listened to them when they were being asked questions that tempted them to reveal what they knew and what they did not. I was so impressed that they were bound by the Oath of Secrecy. The rest of us in Government should learn.

Secondly, there has been a missing link in terms of communication of what the Government is doing. There are people who are thriving with propaganda in social media and have taken a field day yet we are not hearing anyone from the side of Government. We appeal to them to take initiative and step in to communicate the Government’s stand on these issues.

Finally, technology has been abused and others have been using our young people to do things that are unethical. With the coming of Hon. Kabogo and the experience he has, we hope this will be sanitised.

With that Hon. Speaker, I support the approval of these nominees.

Hon. Ruweida.

Asante Mhe. Spika kwa kunipatia nafasi nipate kuchangia. Moja kwa moja, ninaunga mkono. Ninataka niwaambie kwamba na iwe vile ambavyo wamesema kwenye Kamati; siyo kusema tu kwa mdomo, bali waseme kwa vitendo. Kuna wakati Ministry ya Information, Communication and Digital Economy ilitoa nafasi kwa vijana wawili katika kila kaunti, lakini kaunti zingine hazikupewa hizo nafasi. Utaona hata zile zetu mbili zinapewa watu wengine. Kwa hivyo, Waziri akifika hapo, aangalie Kenya yote. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Asiache Mkenya yeyote nje. Sisi ni Wakenya pia. Kule kwetu Lamu ni mbali na kidogo tunasahaulika. Kwa hivyo, atuzingatie na atumie ile affirmative action kufikiria na kusaidia watu walio sehemu mbali mbali. Si lazima Lamu pekee, lakini Wakenya wote kwa jumla. Ningependa pia kumwambia Waziri wa Kilimo na Mifugo kwamba masuala ya samaki yako kwenye kilimo pia. Asiangalie tu upande wa kulima mimea pekee, bali pia aangalie mifugo na samaki. Aje na mbinu za kisasa zile ambazo zitatusaidia. Tusibaki kwenye hali ya babu zetu ambao walienda kuvua samaki na kupata pengine kilo ishirini tu. Saa hii, watu wanapoenda kuvua wanapata kilo moja tu. Atafute mbinu mbadala na za kisasa ili kusaidia wavuvi wetu waweze kufaidika.

Mbali na hayo, eneo ninaloliwakilisha, Lamu Mashariki, lina pande nyingi zenye manufaa. Kuna upande wa samaki, na upande mwingine ni wakulima wa simsim na

. Kuna mfadhili mmoja alisaidia hivi karibuni kwa kutoa laki tano akakipa kikundi cha youth . Hizo laki tano zilitoa watermelon mpaka tukashindwa kuuza. Watermelon zilikuwa nyingi sana. Kuna haja ya Waziri kuingia kule na kuangalia maeneo gani yatatoa mazao gani ili tuweze kusaidia watu wetu. Itakuwa ni kuinua uchumi wa Kenya.

Pia, kuna ukulima wa ndimu na mihogo, lakini bado tunategemea mbinu za zamani. Hawatusaidii. Ningependa kumwambia Waziri kwamba sisi ndio tunatoa simsim nzuri. Ajue kwamba akiingia, kazi inamngojea pale mezani. Ajue kwamba kule Lamu Mashariki, simsim iko nyingi, lakini haiuziki kwa sababu ya makosa ya watu wengine. Wao walitumia dawa inaitwa kausha, wakakausha mimea na sasa simsim yetu haiwezi kuuzwa kule uzunguni. Haiwezi kwenda. Kwa hivyo, aje afanye tofauti na hivyo. Wale wanaotumia madawa wasipeleke bidhaa zao, lakini wale ambao hawatumii madawa bidhaa zao ziweze kupelekwa. Simtarajii aseme kwamba nizungumze na kaunti…

Your time is up. Hon. Cherorot. Mover, please, be ready to reply.

I said one hour and you all agreed.

Hon. Speaker, I stand to support the appointment of the three nominees: Mutahi Kagwe, Lee Kinyanjui, and William Kabogo. The three gentlemen, based on their own experience and the way they have served in this country, are qualified and have the capacity to serve in those ministries that they have been assigned. The President, through his wisdom, has appointed the three. During the campaign, the President had his plan, which is the agenda and manifesto that he is running with. With the coming in of the three, they must ensure that they hit the ground running so that they can deliver. As we are aware, our country has lagged because of the challenges we have been having. I also want to encourage the rest of the Cabinet Secretaries to ensure that they deliver services. They should not just sit back and watch things happening in this country. I also challenge the three nominees to be careful not to fight from within the Government they are going to serve. They have to support the Government and ensure they deliver services to Kenyans. In our country, these ministries have been created with a purpose: to serve the common people. The three should also mark the territorial boundaries in this country to make sure that they serve from north to south and even from east to west. They must remain faithful in serving His Excellency and Kenyans at large. Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support.

I will give the following two minutes each: Hon. Muthoni, Member for Kieni, Nakuru County Women Representative, and Hon. Mbeyu. Let me see how you do. Two minutes each. Start with Hon. Dorothy.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I, first, want to thank the Committee on Appointments and you as the Chairman, for the excellent job The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

undertaken. I also thank His Excellency for picking competent experts and experienced individuals to serve as cabinet secretaries in his Government. I straightaway want to turn to Hon. Mutahi Kagwe. Agriculture is the backbone of this country and he can leverage on new technology to invest in dryland to supplement crop production in the wetlands. As I say this, regarding all the other crops that have been gazetted, I note that the Government has been very keen on opening new markets for them. One crop that seems to have been forgotten, despite being gazetted as a cash crop in this country, is the miraa. I hope that the Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development will fast- track the miraa crop and look for markets for it so that farmers in that area can also benefit and reap big. Thank you.

Member for Kieni. Was it Hon. Liza or the Member for Kieni first?

Member for Kieni, take your seat. Give the microphone to Hon. Liza Chelule. Kuna moja pale .

Clerks-at-the-Table, why are you misfiring today?

Ahsante sana, Mhe. Spika kwa kunipa nafasi pia nichangie Hoja ambayo imeletwa National Assembly na Leader of the Majority Party wetu. Ninachukua nafasi hii kumpongeza Rais kwa niaba ya watu wa Nakuru kwa kuteua hawa watendakazi watatu na wengine wengi ambao tuliwapitisha asubuhi. Ningependa kuzungumzia Waziri Mutahi Kagwe ambaye tulifanya kazi naye katika

na ninamjua kwa utekelezaji wake wa kazi. Ningependa kumwambia Mhe. Mutahi Kagwe kwamba kuna mmea ambao umesahaulika, p yrethrum . Nakuru County ni moja ya

zinazopanda pyrethrum kwa wingi. Pyrethrum ni mmea ambao tulitumia sana zamani kusomesha watoto wetu kule Nakuru. Ninaomba Mhe. Mutahi Kagwe kwamba atakapokuja kuanza kazi, ashikane na Mhe. Lee, ambaye pia tunajua kazi yake. Kwa niaba ya watu wa Nakuru, ninajua tutafaidika na vijana watapata kazi. Akina mama pia wamejitokeza kuwa wakulima wa ng’ombe wa maziwa. Kwa hivyo, nina hakika kwamba Mhe. Mutahi Kagwe atatekeleza kazi hii.

, ninawatakia mema. I wish all of you, my colleagues, a happy 2025. Thank

Member for Kieni.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for the opportunity. I offer my voice in supporting the three wise men who have been appointed to our Cabinet. Indeed, they bring with them a lot of competencies, experiences, braveness and commitment to work. To Mr Mutahi Kagwe, this is a man who has been vilified and demonised in our county of Nyeri, with some suggesting that his appointment does not matter. I tell him that it matters to Kenya that there would be food on the table, enough for all Kenyans. He is not appointed for the people of Nyeri. He should take heart and courage, knowing that all Kenyans are looking up to him to ensure that there is enough food for everybody at all times. I cannot fail to note that when Hon. Kabogo was the Governor of Kiambu County, he gave his best and particularly showed commitment to the delivery of health services. It took Kinyanjui a lot of time, courage and knowledge to transform Nakuru into a city. I encourage all of them to give their best. I wish them well in their service. Let them bring their wisdom so The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

that we all work towards doing something for this country. I do not follow simple people. I follow great minds. That is why in 2017 I offered myself to deputise Mutahi Kagwe.

Very good. Next is the Woman Representative for Kilifi.

Asante, Mhe. Spika. Ninachukua fursa hii kukupongeza na kuombea kila mtu mwaka mpya mwema wa 2025. Twaomba ushirikiano kwa kufanya kazi pamoja. Ninawapongeza wateule hawa watatu. Nikizungumzia Mhe. Kabogo, sijafanya kazi karibu naye. Lakini kwa sababu ameteuliwa katika Wizara ya Habari, Mawasiliano na Teknolojia, ombi langu kwake ni ashirikiane na Wakenya wote, haswa vijana. Anaingia wakati vijana wako vyema kidijitali. Hatutataka waendelee kutumia mitandao vibaya. Aone vipi atatafutia vijana wote wanaohangaika na kusumbuka kazi za kidijitali. Wanasema wanachosema kwa sababu hawana kazi. Kuna kazi nyingi za kidijitali anazoweza kuwatafutia ili waweze kujikimu. Nilimjua Mhe. Mutahi Kagwe akiwa Waziri wa Afya. Saa hizi amepelekwa katika Wizara ya Maendeleo ya Kilimo na Mifugo. Pale alipo anisikie. Ninaitwa Mhe. Mbeyu wa Kilifi. Tunataka turejeshewe mimea ya pwani kama mkorosho na minazi. Japo kazi ya kilimo imegatuliwa, aweze kushirikiana na Serikali ya Kaunti ya Kilifi tuone vipi biashara ya mkorosho, maembe na nazi zinaweza kupata faida.

Leader of the Majority Party, reply now. You all agreed that we assign one hour to each of these Motions.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First, allow me to take this opportunity to thank all Members for their contributions and support to these nominees who were vetted under your chairmanship. In replying, I have listened to the sentiments of many of the contributors. It is important to re-emphasise what many of them have said: Cabinet Secretaries come into office to serve all the people of Kenya and the Government of the day, not just the regions they come from. As has been said by many people, it is important for these nominees and those currently serving in the Cabinet to recognise that they not only have a collective responsibility in their service to the people of Kenya, but also to carry themselves with the decorum and integrity that behove their offices. If any Cabinet Secretary feels that the President has reassigned them to a Ministry that they think is of a lower rank than their previous one, they should simply resign. If you think you have been reassigned to a Ministry where you are unable to extort money from people, and you cannot say so to the public and want to pretend that you are holier than thou, we know you. If you are about to be fired, do not pretend that you are either resigning or asking to be fired. Just go. It is not only about those who are serving, rather it includes the ones we are approving today. This House will oversee all cabinet secretaries with no regard for where they come from or their political affiliation. In the spirit of the broad-based Government, we have cabinet secretaries serving this country who were not part and parcel of the Kenya Kwanza campaign trail. The country is bigger than Kenya Kwanza. The Government of the day serves all Kenyans. I must commend the President for seeing beyond his political party and the coalition that he campaigned under. I must commend the Cabinet Secretaries from the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM): Hon. John Mbadi, Hon. Opiyo Wandayi, Hon. Joho, Hon. Oparanya and Hon. Askul. These Cabinet Secretaries are serving this country with diligence, integrity, and commitment to the people of Kenya. As a Cabinet Secretary, you do not serve the President of the day. You serve the people of Kenya. It is Kenyan taxpayers who pay your salary. Serve with honour, diligence, and commitment. We will continue to oversee Cabinet Secretaries in office today, but we will not waste any more of our parliamentary time to impeach a Cabinet Secretary. Cabinet Secretaries are not people to waste our time with. The honourable thing for a Cabinet Secretary who feels they have failed or are too big for the job they are holding is to resign. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

They should not waste our time or the President’s time. The President has a prerogative to hire, fire, and reassign. There is no Ministry or State Department that is more important than the other if your motivation is service to the people of Kenya. But, if your motivation is extortion or deals in Government, you will find that one particular State Department is better than the Ministry you are currently serving in. Hon. Speaker, with those many remarks, because I can see we have good numbers, I beg to reply and ask this House to approve these nominees to go forth and serve the people of Kenya. I want to believe that as they committed to the people of Kenya during their vetting process, they will serve with diligence and integrity to improve the lot of all Kenyans and improve our economy through the Bottom-up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA). I beg to reply. Thank you, Hon. Speaker

Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. Sorry to Members who wanted to speak but did not get opportunity because of time. Listening to all of you, the chorus was one. You are all supporting. There was no dissent. So, those who spoke did so for all of us.

Next order.

The Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. This is a very short Motion. Hon. Speaker, I beg to move: That, the House considers the Senate amendments to the Gambling Control Bill, (National Assembly Bill No.70 of 2023) be now considered. This Bill was passed in this House early last year, if we may remember, together with the Betting Control Bill. Because it had the provisions that touched on county governments, it was conveyed to the Senate for consideration. The Senate moved a number of amendments which have since been considered by the Departmental Committee on Sports and Culture under the Chairmanship of Hon. Wanyama. Hon. Speaker, the Committee in its Report, which was tabled towards the tail end of the last session, recommended that we reject all the Senate amendments. Many of the clauses that were amended by the Senate, and which the Committee has proposed that we reject, are counter to the provisions of articles of the Constitution touching on the different functions of the two levels of government between the national Government and the county functions. They are also contrary to the provisions of Article 109 of the Constitution on the exercise of legislative powers. Hon. Speaker, for clarity, Article 109 of the Constitution, says: 1. Parliament shall exercise its legislative power through Bills passed by Parliament and assented to by the President. (In this instance, Parliament means both chambers of Parliament). 2. Any Bill may originate in the National Assembly. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

3. A Bill not concerning county government is considered only in the National Assembly and passed in accordance with Article 122 and the Standing Orders of the Assembly. (Because this Bill concerned counties, that is why it was not only considered by the National Assembly alone. We took it to the Senate). 4. A Bill concerning county governments may originate in the National Assembly, or the Senate, and is passed in accordance with Articles 110 to113, Articles 122 and 123 and the Standing Orders of the Houses. 5. A Bill may be introduced by any member or committee of the relevant House of Parliament, but a money Bill may be introduced only in the National Assembly in accordance with Article 114. Hon. Speaker, many of the amendments that were inserted into this Bill by the Senate have a money Bill effect, therefore, making this Bill, which originally was not a money Bill, a money Bill. Therefore, there is no way that this House, under Article 109 of the Constitution, would allow the Senate to usurp the powers of the National Assembly in terms of introducing Bills that have a money Bill effect.This is because the Constitution says that only the National Assembly may consider Bills that have a money Bill effect, whether it is the imposition of taxes, levies, or charges on Kenyans from the Exchequer. That can only be done by the National Assembly. Therefore, many of the amendments, that were done by the Senate, touch on imposition of taxation, levies, penalties and charges, things that can only be done by this House. Hon. Speaker, I know that there are people in the Senate who thought that it is an ingenious way of introducing such provisions, then take this Bill to mediation to consider these amendments. I implore you that when and if we reject these amendments and we go into mediation, all the clauses that have a money Bill effect, I beg that you ask the House or the Mediation Committee not to consider them because it will be unconstitutional: completely unconstitutional. Second, besides these unconstitutional provisions having been introduced by the Senate, it is also not possible to re-legislate on certain things that we have already legislated on. Towards the tail end of the Session, we legislated on the Tax Procedures Bill, which is now an Act of Parliament. We also legislated on the Tax Amendment Bill, which is now an Act of Parliament. Some of the provisions that the Senate amended in this Bill are covered under the Tax Amendment Act of 2024. Therefore, re-introducing the same clauses in this Bill will be unprocedural and against our own Standing Orders. It is unconstitutional, illegal, null and void. Therefore, Hon. Speaker, I beg that when you will be making your determination on the clauses that will be mediated on, you direct that the Mediation Committee, when we form one, does not consider some of these provisions that are unconstitutional and have already been legislated on, especially touching on the Money Bill provisions. This is because we cannot allow the Senate, as a lower House, to take over the mandate of the upper House. I have never used those words in my almost 13 years in this House, on which House is upper because it is not important. However, it is important to adhere to the provisions of the Constitution. The drafters of the Constitution had reasons as to why they did not give powers to appropriate resources to the Senate; they had reasons why they never gave powers to the Senate to levy taxation or even fees on Kenyans and they had reasons why they said that the Senate represents the counties and the National Assembly represents the people of Kenya. Therefore, it is only those who represent the people of Kenya who can impose taxation on them. The Senate cannot go behind our backs and begin to impose taxes then pretend that we can come and mediate on taxation. We cannot mediate on tax matters with the Senate. With those remarks, I beg the House to agree with the Departmental Committee on Sports and Culture and reject in totality all the amendments that came from the Senate. We can then mediate on all the other clauses, except those that have a Money Bill effect with us. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I beg to move. I also ask the Hon. Caroli Omondi, who I believe is a Member of this Committee, to second. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker and thank you very much the Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have the pleasure in seconding the Motion that the Senate amendments to the Gambling Control Bill now be considered. As the Leader of the Majority Party has pointed out, there are several inconsistencies or legal challenges that we identified in relation to the proposed amendments. Some of them naturally offend certain legislations. For example, the Senate proposes to amend Clause 7 to the effect that the composition of the Board of the proposed authority does not have a representative of the Attorney-General. The State Corporations Act, Cap. 446, as well as the Mwongozo Code of Governance makes such membership mandatory. So, we really cannot accede to the proposed amendments. There are also other amendments that conflict with the intentions of the Bill. Several of those you will see, like in Clause 10, as well as in Clause 11. Some of the proposed amendments, apart from conflicting with the Constitution as well as various statutes as the Leader of the Majority Party has pointed out, were matters that were covered by the recently passed tax amendment laws. As a Committee, we would like to propose that this House rejects all the proposed amendments and we go for mediation and hopefully we can find a solution to this matter. However, we are not persuaded by any of those amendments and we cannot accede to any of them for various reasons, such as breach of provisions of Article 109 of the Constitution and other laws. With those few remarks, I beg to second.

Yes, I am trying to give you the microphone. You now have it.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As much as I am loyal to the Leader of the Majority Party, those in leadership offices have been given a constitutional opportunity to speak quite often, while the ordinary Members have to struggle to catch the Speaker's eye. It is a rare opportunity. That is why I have been adamant that I should also say something, so that the people of Wajir North can hear their Member of Parliament. I may not speak with wisdom, but at least I pronounce myself. This is a clear, simple, and straightforward Motion but we can only legislate or argue out issues where there is ambiguity. As much as there is clarity in the law, I do not see why the two Houses are always in a tussle over their mandate. I do not know why the Senate is so desperate to interfere with the mandate of the National Assembly. They carry themselves as the upper House when they are not. There is nothing in a name. We can even call them by that name. However, they can only be the upper House in executing their role as stipulated in the Constitution. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

I was just casually going through Article 96 of the Constitution on the role of the Senate. The Senate has nothing to do with the issues raised in the Motion. Articles 96(1), (2) and (3) limit the role of the Senate to county matters, the interest of the counties, matters affecting the counties, and protecting the county governments. The role of the National Assembly is within the purview of the functions of the national Government. Hon. Deputy Speaker, you are a senior legal mind. I do not understand why the Senate does not understand its role. The new Constitution was promulgated in 2010. It has been in force for more than a decade but the Senate still does not understand its role. Why should there be duplication of roles? Why should the Senate have committees on security and other aspects when their roles are limited to the contents of Articles 96(1), (2), (3) and (4) of the Constitution, which are very explicit? I want to ask the leadership of this House and the Senate to come together and agree on their roles as they are in the Constitution. Without further ado, those are sufficient remarks for me to be heard, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I agree with the Leader of the Majority Party and Hon. Caroli. The Senate knew that what it was doing was in contravention of the Constitution. It was a deliberate attempt. The work of the National Assembly is protected and preserved in the Constitution. That shall remain so until we amend the Constitution. With those few remarks, thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Member for Gichugu, Hon. Gichimu Githinji. Hon. Nyikal, you are next. So, hold on.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion to reject all the amendments by the Senate because it has overstepped its mandate as per the Constitution. Under Article 96 of the Constitution, the Senate is supposed to protect the interests of the counties. It follows that it should also oversee matters that relate to the counties. Sometimes I find it very contradictory that the National Assembly, which has the mandate to oversee the operations and functions of the national Government under the ministries, has parallel committees with the Senate, which might come up with different conclusions or outcomes. The Senate should not provoke the National Assembly and invite us to discuss such matters. We are all Members of Parliament. Our roles are specified in the Constitution. The Senate should do its work and so should the National Assembly. It is also very clear that the Senate cannot initiate Money Bills. I do not need to belabour the point, but this House needs to make a decision in conjunction with the Senate, so that we can clearly define our mandates and avoid overlapping roles. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity. I support the Motion.

Let me give an opportunity to Hon. Nyikal, Member for Seme. He was the last one on the list.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to agree with the Committee. However, I want to raise a very fundamental issue. The Committee has stated that some of the amendments that we are rejecting are unconstitutional. That raises the issue of the Senate processes during consideration of Bills. How can something unconstitutional be passed with the Clerk sitting there? How did that happen? If the pieces of legislation are unconstitutional, that should be addressed at a higher level. That is a bigger concern than even the fact that there is no agreement between both Houses. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Members, let me put the Question afresh.

Hon. Members, are you now well-briefed? Do you want me to put the Question again?

Yes!

Okay. I will do so.

Hon. Members, the net effect of that is that when we go to the Committee of the whole House, we will only consider the Startup Bill. Therefore, we shall not consider the second part of it, which is the Senate Amendments, which you have just rejected. Next Order.

Hon. Members, we shall consider this clause in one minute or so. You remember we had the Committee of the whole House in the morning to consider the Startup Bill. We did very well. We are just recommitting a single clause, that is, Clause 9, which was negatived in the morning but it was supposed to be agreed to.

Hon. Fatuma, can you sit down? I hope that you have heard my explanation. We negatived a clause in the morning which was recommitted. This is Clause 9 of the Startup Bill.

Mover, Member for Aldai.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 9. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

This amendment seeks to accommodate new incubation provisions which are already provided under Part IV of the Bill.

Put the Question.

Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Startup Bill (Senate Bill No. 14 of 2022) and its approval thereof with amendment.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, you may move the report.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Startup Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2022) and approved the same with amendment.

Mover, Hon. Mayaka.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Startup Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2022) be now read a Third Time. I also request Hon. Marianne Kitany to second.

This is a very good Bill. I second.

Hon. Mayaka, take that again. You should say: I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. Marianne Kitany to second.

Hon. Kitany.

I second.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Put the Question!

Hon. Members, we can put the Question. We have the requisite number of Members to do so.

Hon. Mayaka, Mover of the Bill, move the Third Reading.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Startup Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2022) be now read a Third Time. I also request Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a to second.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I second.

Put the Question!

Hon. Members, the time now being 6.15 p.m., this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 11th February 2025 at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 6.15 p.m.

The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.