Order, hon. Senators! I am informed we have a quorum. Let us proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following report on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 18th September, 2013: The County Budget Implementation Review Report for the Fourth Quarter of the Financial Year 2012/2013. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Report was presented to the Senate pursuant to Article 228(6) of the Constitution.

Chairman, Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, I thought you were to give notice of a Motion. There was also another one by the Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought so but the notices of the Motions are not ready yet from the Clerks.

Sorry, what did you say?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the notices for the Motions are not yet ready. So, we are not able to move them. Let me consult.

Sen. Murkomen!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders No. 175(3) and 177(3), the Senate approves the nomination by the Rules and Business Committee of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to replace Sen. Kanainza Daisy Nyongesa in the Sessional Committee on Implementation.

Let us now move on to Order No.8

Mr. Speaker, Sir, again, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders No. 175(3) and 177(3), the Senate approves the nomination by the Rules and Business Committee of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to replace Sen. James Orengo in the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask Sen. Wako to second the Motion. I have nothing to add.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to second this Motion wholeheartedly. I am privileged to be the Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. When the Committee was constituted, the late Mutula Kilonzo was a member. Unfortunately, he passed away just after the Committee was constituted. Thereafter, I was put in a very difficult position to find out whether I should continue to stand for Chairmanship of the Committee because the membership of ODM had been reduced to three and Jubilee was five. We had agreed with the late Mutula Kilonzo that he would support me as Chair. I was about to give up. But fortunately, I was selected by consensus. I really want to welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior as a suitable replacement for this particular committee. We know what he is made of.

Surely, Sen. Wako, if your fears were allayed, would you not want to be grateful to those who made your fears disappear? Hon. Senators: Yes!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was coming to that. But I wanted to focus on Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, who is joining this Committee. We all know his legal credentials in his own right. It may very well be that the blood of the late Mutula Kilonzo runs in his veins, but he has proved himself in litigation and on issues relating to law, not just here before the High Court in Nairobi, but I know he has ably represented other people in the East African Court of Justice. He more than proved himself also in the by-election where

Order, hon. Senators! Today, we have seen the reversal of events. Usually, it is the Mover who talks and the Seconder can even nod. Today, the Seconder has done more of the moving than the Mover but since they have not contravened any Standing Order, we will proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to strongly support this Motion. As I do so, allow me from the outset to take this opportunity to convey my congratulations to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior on his election as the Senator for Makueni County. When the elections took place, I was away on official duty. When he was sworn-in, I was not here. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate him. This is the right move. These are very brilliant brains that we are putting in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I am sure that he will probably do better than the old chip itself. I have a lot of confidence in Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior. He once represented me at the High Court in a case where I was accused of incitement during the 2005 Referendum, a case that I was sure that we were going to win. But my good friend, the Senator for Busia County entered what we call nolle prosequi and, therefore, the case was terminated. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior. I wish him well as he serves in this Committee of the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Motion. We know the Senator is a very capable and diligent lawyer. This will be an opportunity to get some new blood to the Committee. Some of our lawyers are not exactly dinosaurs, but they are analog and it is time we got some digital team to the Committee. I am sure he will add a lot of value to the Committee. I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for also giving me the chance to contribute towards the support of our friend and colleague, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, to succeed Sen. Nyongesa as a member. Much as we support that move---

Order, Sen. Karaba. You are referring to a Motion whose notice was given this afternoon. The one on the Order Paper is different. Sen.

Thank you for that correction, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is because it seems he is replacing quite a number of people. I do not know what will happen here with this issue of replacements.

I wanted to find out which Committee Sen. Nyongesa will be moved to. But for now, I support this replacement. All is well. After all, the two Senators are lawyers though one of them is older, that is Sen. Orengo. When we have new blood joining the Committee, I suppose this will make the Committee more vibrant, but not as vibrant as it would have been going by the fact that Sen. Orengo also struggled to make what some of us are. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to the Committee and the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. I am privileged to be the Vice-Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I want to take this opportunity to welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to our Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Committee has a lot of work to undertake. We have the impeding discussions on the constitutional review. The Committee is working on a Miscellaneous (Amendment) Bill that will try to correct a lot of the legislations that were passed in the last Parliament, to try and have them conform to the current Constitution and devolution. The credentials of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior will be very helpful to us, as a Committee. Therefore, as mentioned by the Chair of the Committee, Sen. Wako, we have always worked in a bi-partisan manner. I am sure that as Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior joins the Committee, we will move together as a group and be able to deliver on our mandate. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to the Committee. I assure him that we will work together.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr for being elected to this House, I also support his appointment to this Committee. However, I am a bit reluctant to accept the sentiments of the Attorney-General Emeritus that one has to be a lawyer to serve in this Committee. Then we should kick out all lawyers from the other committees where they are not professionals. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Kwanza, ningependa kumpongeza wakili Seneta Mutula Kilonzo Junior kwa ushindi wake katika uchaguzi mdogo. Ushindi wake ulikuwa wa kukamilika na kuthibitisha ya kwamba ni wakili na mtetezi ambaye watu wa Kaunti ya Makueni walikuwa wamejitolea kumpa nafasi ili aweze kuwahudumia. Bw. Spika, namfahamu Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior kama wakili mwenzangu ijapokuwa nimepita viwango kadha nikwa jaji na hatimaye kuweza kustaafu. Kama wakili, kuna nyakati amekuwa mbele yangu nikiwa jaji na nimeona kwamba amekamilika kiwakili.

Let us have the last two contributors to this Motion; Sen. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o and lastly, the Senator from Mombasa County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion and also to go on record that when the young Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior was soundly elected by the people of Makueni County, I was there. Sen. Orengo, the Senator for Siaya County, promised the people of Makueni that when the young Senator takes the seat of his late father, that Sen. Orengo will honour his presence in the House and the people of Makueni by quitting his seat in this particular committee in his favor. I must say that Sen. Orengo has lived up to his word. We are grateful that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is taking this seat. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, and since my friend, Sen. Billo, mentioned the word “digital” here, I would say that let us not just pay homage to the word “digital” without living the concept “digital”. In that regard, there is something that is happening in this nation and in the whole world which should be taken very seriously in this highly digitalized world. I hope this particular Committee will seize it. That is in regard to the laws relating to the social media. It is an extremely important issue particularly when it comes to bringing up a proper democratic political culture in this nation, inculcating proper values in our young ones and ensuring that the digital culture in the social media is not exploited to undermine social values and the building of a democratic society. The Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights is perhaps the best placed to begin thinking of this. I would like to appeal to the young Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to take up that as, perhaps, one of his early initiatives in the House; to think about how to deal with social media in our political culture. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii ili niunge mkono pendekezo hili la kumleta Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior katika Kamati ya Maswala ya Kisheria na Haki za Kibinadamu. Bw. Spika, Kamati hii ni ya watu wazito. Mwenyekiti, Sen. Amos Wako, alikuwa Mkuu wa Sheria kwa karibu miaka 20. Naibu wake ni kijana ambaye anacheza mpira - ni chipukizi ambaye anacheza namba ya mbele na nyuma. Seneta Sang, hachoki akicheza mpira.

Katika Kamati hiyo pia kuna aliyekuwa mwenzangu katika maswala ya haki za kibinadamu na ni Bi. Fatuma Dullo, ambaye alikuwa kamishna katika Tume ya kutetea Haki za Kibinadamu. Mwanachama mwingine ni Seneta wa Kaunti ya Elgeyo-Marakwet, Sen. Murkomen, ambaye amesifika katika maswala ya ugatuzi.. Aliyekuwa Waziri wa maswala ya Kisheria, Sen. Murungi pia ni mwanachama wa Kamati hii. Naibu wa Spika wa Bunge la Seneti, Sen. Kembi-Gitura, pia ni mwanachama. Kuna wakili wa Chama cha Wiper, Bi Sijeny. Pia, mimi ni mwanachama wa Kamati hiyo na mimi ni Seneta wa Kaunti ya Mombasa.

Mimi ni goal keeper ! Kazi yangu ni kuhakikisha Kamati hii haivuji, ikivuja mimi niko hapo kunyaka. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, ukija, unakuja katika miamba ya kisheria. Tunakukaribisha kwa kuleta mwongozo. Nilikuwa nikishirikiana na Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior tulipokuwa katika Tume ya Haki za Kibinadamu. Ametuwakilisha katika East African Court of Justice. Niko na imani kubwa naye. Ndungu yetu Sen. Billow amesema huu ni wakati wa “digital”, ukiangalia---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Billow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the young hon. Senator from Mombasa County to mix two languages at the same time? He should use the Swahili word for “digital”.

Bw. Spika, nawaona hapa Maseneta wa kaunti za Kwale, Migori, Kilifi na Taita-Taveta. Pengine wanaweza nieleza, hili neno “digitali” kwa lugha ya Kiswahili ni nini? Hon. Senators: Digitali!

Bw. Spika, cha kuhuzunisha ni kwamba mfuasi mkubwa wa chama cha Jubilee, Seneta Billow, hajui “digital” kwa Kiswahili ni nini. Alikuwa akiwambia nini watu wa Kaunti ya Mandera? Bw. Spika, kwa kumalizia, ningependa kumkaribisha Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior. Ukingalia Seneta Wako, Sang na mimi tuko na Ipad. Kwa hivyo, mambo ni digital. Na wewe pia nakuona unayo. Hebu iinue Bw. Spika aione.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, ningependa kusema tutashirikiana na wewe kama mwenzetu ili tuweze kuhakikisha ya kwamba tumeendeleza ratiba ya Seneti hii na tuweze kupata mwelekeo katika maswala ya kisheria. Asante sana, Bw. Spika, kwa fursa hii.

Order, Sen. Hassan! You know what to do when you are addressing the House. While contributing to this Motion, you were addressing specific Senators. Secondly, when you were asked whether there is a translation for the word “digital” in Kiswahili, you started mentioning the Swahili speaking Senators from the “Swahili nation”. So, I was wondering whether you are taking a roll call or otherwise. I am yet to come across a situation where the one on the Floor seeks information from the others. It is usually the case that those who are listening to you are the ones who would wish to give you information. Those are some serious observations that you need to take into account.

Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

That brings us to the end of that Motion. It is a procedural Motion but it will also subscribe to the normal provisions. If the Mover now feels sufficiently ready to reply---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sufficiently convinced that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior fits in the listed group of Senators who are members of the Legal Affairs Committee. He is a peer to the likes of Sen. Hassan led by the Senior Counsel, Sen. Wako. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is a man whom I admired many times when he was practicing law. In my earlier days, I would go to court and be proud of his submissions. I think the Senate and the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights is going to benefit a great deal. I used to think that he was an elitist and I was wondering whether somebody was pushing him to politics. I read the other day in the newspapers where some theorists were trying to advice the Senate Majority Leader and myself of how to do politics. Those who were writing those articles are men and women who have tried elections several times and have not won. My concern was that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior was going to suffer a great deal if he tries to leave his practice and come to politics but my concerns were answered last week when I watched him do a thorough Kamba dance in the village in the dust. I felt that it was a great connection to the voters. I also think that he fits in this serious group of Senators who have come in like Sen. Sang, Sen. Hassan and myself. These Senators have been able to connect to the village and the city. I congratulate him and welcome him to that Committee. We will work together because I am a member of that Committee. I believe that he is going to add value to it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Senator for Kisumu when he talks about social media and the fact that the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights needs to do something. We are the best suited Committee to deal with that because in that Committee, some of us are victims of social media. For example, there is somebody who has opened an account equivalent to my name and he has extorted over Kshs500,000 from people by lying to them that Sen. Murkomen is giving loans to people in the village. Sometimes, Kenyans are very gullible and have sent registration fees. I think it is important that this Committee with digital Senators like Mutula Kilonzo Junior will contribute and look for solutions so that we are able to deal with social crimes that come with new technology. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that I support and beg to reply.

CONNECTION OF ALL COUNTY HEADQUARTERS TO THE NATIONAL FIBRE OPTIC NETWORK THAT, considering the need for Implementation of an Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) as required by law; noting that most counties are not linked to the National Optic Fibre Broadband Infrastructure (NOFBI); aware that the rolling out of e- government will be hindered by lack of such infrastructure; recognizing the principles of good governance, integrity, transparency and

Hon. Senators, this Motion is being deferred at the request of the Mover, so we will move to the next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must say that I have been caught by surprise because I had not come with my notes for moving the Motion but nevertheless, I will rise to the occasion and say something. To me,this Motion is a very important Motion because it---

Order, Sen. Wako! You need to move the Motion as it appears on the Order Paper, then you can contribute.

I have to read?

Yes; you have to read it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that I have to read but I think I will propose to the Committee to amend these Standing Orders; that Senators know how to read---

Order, Sen. Wako! I thought there was a reference of your long tenure in excess of two decades. You may make recommendations but as long as they have not been approved, they are not binding. So, abide by what is provided for now.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, noting that Article 1 (4) of the Constitution of Kenya states that the sovereign power of the people is exercised at the national and county levels; noting further that Article 6 (2) of the Constitution recognizes that the two levels of Government are distinct and inter- dependent; aware that devolution is an important principle of governance in the new structure; recognizing the important role of the civil service the world-over causing countries to establish specialized schools of Government; further noting that the Government established a training institute for civil servants in 1956 to impart relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes, leadership and management competencies that are required for efficient and effective service delivery; noting with concern that one of the main obstacles to the efficient and effective operation of County

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion due to its importance. I would like to reiterate an issue that Sen. Wako pointed out. Right from the colonial times, human rights development issues, especially matters of administration, were always taken seriously by the national Government. Therefore, the Kenya Institute of Administration stands out as such an institution. We will also remember that during that time, we also had regional training in states. I remember that in my own county of Kisumu, we had a Government Training Institute (GTI) at Maseno which was specifically for training in matters of Administration Management. Later, most of these institutions were taken up by the universities and the training institute in Maseno became Maseno University. I am quite sure that this phenomenon occurred in other counties as well. I would like to point out that in supporting this Motion there is no contradiction in having a county government training institute supported by the national Government. At the same time, there is no contradiction in counties under this national training institute making arrangements for human resource development with other institutions within the counties particularly the universities and opening up training institutes within the universities specifically geared towards developing human resources for county management and administration. This is a common practice in many countries particularly in the US. You may find that in every state, there is a university that is contracted by the state to open up a specialized institute for purposes of human resources development for that state. This is a practice that could be encouraged and nurtured by the county governments training institutes so that the issue of human resources development does not become a problem in counties. Referring to the Motion, I would like to quote from it extensively, especially one particular part which is very important. It says among other things; “further noting that the Government established a training institute for civil servants in 1956 to impart relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes, leadership and management competencies that are required for efficient and effective service delivery--- ;” Managing society of Government is not something that is acquired by instinct. It is something that is acquired by training. This is because a lot of things that are dealt with in administration management are not germane to the normal mind. They do not exist beforehand or aforethought. However intelligent you are, you must receive from received or existing knowledge. That is why all these law books are here to tell us what laws exist in this country. That is why people are trained in law not only to develop such laws but also to interpret them. The same is true of management. There is a discipline called Management Science. The same is true of administration. There is a discipline called Administration Science which is a science on

Bw. Spika, asante, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili nimuunge mwenzangu katika pendekezo ambalo amelitoa kwa Seneti hii kupitia Hoja hii. Yeye mwenyewe kwa fikira zake ameangalia na kunukuu Kipengele cha Kwanza cha Katiba ya Kenya, mstari wa nne, Kipengele cha Sita, mstari wa pili na pia kibandikizo cha Katiba, Sura ya Sita na Kipengele cha 15, mstari wa pili. Bw. Spika, hili sio wazo lake tu bali ni la Kikatiba. Wale watakaopewa kazi hiyo wanafaa wawe wameelimika ya kutosha kwa utawala wa mgambo. Ni kweli kabisa kwamba Katiba mpya imetoa sehemu mbili tu za utawala, Serikali ya taifa na serikali za ugatuzi. Huenda mawazo ya elimu ambayo watawala wetu wanayo wakati huu hayatoshi. Ni lazima Serikali ya Jubilee iliyopo sasa ielewe na kukubali kwamba sehemu za utawala wa nchi hii ni mbili tu Kikatiba, ingawa wameweka kibandikizo ambacho hakikubaliki kikatiba, kuwatafutia kazi tu wale waliokuwa wakuu wa mikoa wakati huo. Hatukubaliani na hilo wazo lao. Tuna sehemu mbili tu za Serikali kulingana na Katiba. Bw. Spika, kwa hivyo, pendekezo la mwenzangu juu ya hii, haitoi nafasi ya mawazo ya kufundisha wale wametunukiwa utawala kwa hiyo sehemu bandia ya tatu. Ni sehemu mbili tu na hivyo ndivyo Katiba inasema. Tukubali kwamba hili ni wazo ambalo lilikuja miaka 58 zilizopita. Wakati huo tulikuwa na kituo kimoja cha kufundisha utawala, yaani, KIA. Bunge hili ilipitisha Hoja hapo awali kwamba tuwe na chuo kikuu kwa kila makao makuu ya kaunti. Mwenye Hoja hiyo anafaa kufikiria kama ingekuwa vizuri kugeuza na kusema kwamba kila chuo kikuu ambacho kitaidhinishwa kiwe na sehemu ya kufundisha mawazo haya ya utawala mpya, ili Hoja hii ambayo imependekezwa na Sen. Wako iingie. Itakuwa jambo la manufaa, kheri na haki kama tunapoanzisha vyuo vikuu hivi tuwe na sehemu ambazo zimeundwa kwa ajili ya kufundisha elimu ya utawala wa mgambo. Tukifanya hivyo, tutakuwa tunapiga hatua mbele. Bw. Spika, hata hivyo, kile ambacho mwenzangu ameomba labda ni upanuzi wa chuo ambacho tayari kipo, ili kiweze kumeza---

Bw. Spika, mimi ninachangia Hoja ya Sen. Wako na yeye hasikilizi hata kidogo. Anachekacheka tu. Labda anafurahia. Naomba anipe nafasi nimalize.

Mimi nilikuwa nafikiri kuwa akicheka anafurahia vile unachangia Hoja hii. Waheshimiwa Maseneta, Sen. (Dkt.) Machage anaomba asikilizwe. Hata kama umefurahia unaweza tu kutabasamu. Sio lazima ucheke. Endelea, Sen.(Dkt.) Machage.

Bw. Spika, asante kwa kumkumbusha mwenzangu wajibu wake, kwamba ukishaleta Hoja, ni lazima usikilize kwa sababu kuna maswali ambayo yanakubidi kuyajibu baadaye. Lakini asiwe na wasiwasi kwa sababu Hoja yake ni nzuri. Ni wazo la hekima na maendeleo. Bw. Spika, naunga mkono Hoja hii kwa dhati.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The distinguished Senator for Busia was amused at the mastery of Kiswahili by Sen.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this important Motion. I believe that it is also one that is well thought out and clearly defined. From the outset even before I talk about this particular Motion, I think it is important for us to ask ourselves as the Senate where these Motions go, once we finish contributing to them. Ideally, the Committee on Implementation should actually be following to ensure that what we are saying in this House reaches the respective Ministries and authorities for implementation. On a couple of occasions, I have met Cabinet Secretaries and I have asked them what they are doing about particular Motions that were passed in the Senate and inevitably almost without exception, they have all said: “Which Motion are you talking about?’. They have not seen the Motions. Therefore it is important as a House to debate and follow through to ensure that there is implementation. There is no need for us to come here and have a nice discussion and then nothing happens thereafter. I am saying this because this is a very important Motion and we must ensure that it is implemented. Education related to county governance is a key factor to the positive implementation of this new Constitution. If we do not have people who are going to train, then we are going to waste our time. Not even that, we have a whole Ministry for Devolution and Planning that has been given sufficient funding to build capacity for the counties, but the manner in which they are training is fairly ad hoc . One minute there is training in Busia and then there is a little request from Nyeri and then Turkana. It is being done in a very ad hoc manner that cannot be quantified and be eventually effective. Therefore, this is the kind of institution that will deliver, and the Ministry of Devolution and Planning should be working as a multi-Ministry task, liaising with the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government to see whether they can expand the Kenya School of Government (KSG) or like Sen. Wetangula says, whether we should be starting a new college or expand colleges that already exist, for example, the Kimathi University in Nyeri or the Masinde Muliro University in Kakamega. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when we talk about the formation of this institution, who will we train? We would like to believe that Sen. Wako in bringing this Motion was thinking about the training of the county civil service and Members of the County Assemblies because there is no point of training the right hand and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. So, in developing the curriculum for such an institution, it is important for us to ask ourselves who we are going to train and consequently design a curriculum that addresses all those areas. If you look at the quality of debate that sometimes goes on in the county assemblies, you can see it is very basic. This is the kind of institution that can train the Members of the County Assemblies to engage themselves in a debate that is fairly sophisticated because it is going to be issues based. But that can only come from a properly designed curriculum. I can go further and say that such a curriculum should be benchmarked amongst the best in the world and not in Kenya. Other nations have got devolved governments and training facilities for their devolved governments.

They can also buy them!

Or as Sen. Wetangula has proposed in the past, just go and purchase a degree at your peril.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, we have those who have lost seats as a result of trying to cheat through and assume positions of education that do not belong to them. Mr. Temporary Speaker, this is a necessary part of our progress. We should address the issue of who will govern us. If small companies are saying they want a person qualified with a degree; if the MPs are vetting individuals who they have insisted on having degrees, who are we then not to vet ourselves and say we should also be qualified like other Kenyans? They hold those positions because they are qualified. Mr. Temporary Speaker, there is no point in us creating institutions which will be manned by individuals who do not have the capacity to do so. Definitely, there will be a professor of political science. There is going to be a person who has got a doctorate or a Masters degree in whatever they will teach as far as governance is concerned. We must also define the student who will join that institution. For example, such a student must have some minimum qualifications. This is a governance institution. Therefore, a governance institution must have people who are respected by the society from which they come. They must also meet the challenges of nationhood and nation building. Mr. Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Baadhi yetu tumeamua katika zamu hii tuendeleze Lugha ya Kiswahili ili tuijenge. Mwanzo kabisa nimesimama hapa kuunga Hoja hii mkono ambayo imeletwa na Seneta wa Busia. Yeye ni Mwenyekiti wa Kamati yetu ya Legal Affairs and Human Rights. Kuna watu walisema wakati wa kupigania Katiba mpya kwamba wao wangepiga “ndio.” Walipoulizwa kwa nini wanaipigia Katiba “ndio,” wakasema ni kwa vile Sen. Wetangula ameisoma na akasema ni sawa. Wakati huu tuna Hoja ambayo imewasilishwa hapa na Sen. Wako. Hoja hii ninaiunga mkono kwa sababu ni well though through kama vile Sen. Kagwe alivyotamka. Jambo la pili, Bw. Spika wa Muda, sisi hapa Kenya tumezoea kazi za ukarabati katika kila kitu. Tunajifanya sisi tunajua kila kitu zaidi kuliko watu wengine. Sijui kama hata wewe, Mwenyekiti, ni mmoja wao? Ukiharibikiwa na mfereji wa maji, unaufungua wewe mwenyewe. Wewe unakuwa ni fundi wa mifereji ya maji. Ukiharibikiwa na stima nyumbani, unaitengeza ile swichi wewe mwenyewe. Mara nyingi watu wetu wamekufa kutokana na mshituko wa umeme. Tukiuliza kilicho sababisha kifo, tunaambiwa alifungua soketi ya stima bila kujua ina waya tofautitofauti kama vile earth na live . Anakufa ovyo kwa sababu hataki kumpa kazi fundi wa stima Kshs200.

Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda.

Ni nini Seneta wa Nairobi?

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ningeomba Seneta wa Mombasa aondoe neon “wizi” na kutumia neno la kisawa.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nilisema kwamba tukiwalipa watu mapato duni, watakuwa wanaendeleza sera za wizi. Sikuita mtu mwizi.

Hiyo ni sawa! Endelea, Sen. Hassan.

Order, Senators! The Speaker ruled earlier that all communication is through the Chair. We do not want you to be talking to yourself outside the Chair and you know what can befall you.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, first and foremost, I wish to thank my colleague Senator for bringing this Motion. Right from the onset, I want to state that I support it. The building of capacity for development of this country is a very urgent matter. It is more urgent now that we are beginning with counties so that we address the issue of capacity building by building institutions. There is no need to build structures. We have no need for buildings in this case. We need to move very quickly and establish a network in which we can build capacity. The first thing that we need to do is to clean up and modernise curriculums in which we would want to develop and build capacity with the view of looking at the future. We want a curriculum that would bring us personnel that have the capacity to work even in 2050. So, curriculum development is, perhaps, one of the first things that we would need to do in terms of capacity building. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Committee on Education, Information and Technology had the opportunity of meeting all the Ministers of Education in all the counties. We had firsthand experience of what capacity would do. We met these Ministers and officials from the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). It became apparent that we were the ones who were providing the know-how in terms of capacity building. I must say that, at the end of that seminar, the teachers in the counties, Ministers for Education in counties felt much better. Most of them had already been given the function and the money. However, they were unable to employ teachers for Early Childhood Development (ECDE) because they lacked the capacity. They lacked knowledge on when they would do that and what were the consequences. These are the small things that can be learnt if we had an institution for building the capacity. In the matter of capacity, it is not only the workers for the public service that need to be enhanced in terms of capacity. I even think that politicians need to be given some capacity in the way in which we think so that we can move away from some hard-line positions in our political thinking that directly affect development. So, I should expect that these institutions which we are building can be useful to the politicians where we can modernize our thinking. For example, we should be thinking of arbitration instead of radical positions. Even we, as politicians, would benefit from an institution that builds capacity. The unfortunate thing is that while we were in Naivasha with the teachers, the Ministry concerned with devolution itself needed to build capacity of its own in order to deliver. So, it is very important that this capacity building is considered as an all round thing, so that everybody is incorporated and their capacity to deliver is enhanced. This also applies to the governors. I do believe that even the governors of these counties need to stay together, learn from each other and receive new information. New information

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity so that I can support this Motion. This is a very good Motion brought by the leader of delegation from Busia. This Motion wants to build capacities in the counties. There is no way we can have good infrastructure even if we have resources, unless the men and women who are going to implement those services are well trained and have appropriate skills that can enable them do their jobs right. Therefore, we need to support the notion that is being proposed here that we should have the necessary training colleges in every county to the level of the Kenya Institute of Management that can train our civil service. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, we have had quite a number of issues in the counties where many members of staff have been striking. They are striking because some governors are alleging that they are bloated and, therefore, should be fired. This is a notion that I do not support. These are all Kenyans and cannot just be thrown away like that. There has to be away in which our civil service can be maintained in the counties. This can be done by way of having a proper job evaluation and a necessary skills audit. This is the only way we can know a number of staff required in the counties. We cannot just wake one morning and say that we have over 12,000 workers and we need to send them away. In these hard times when the cost of living has doubled, we cannot take such a drastic measure. We all know in the last two weeks, we were buying milk at Kshs45. Today, it is being sold at Kshs65. So, where do we expect these staff to go? Therefore, we need to ensure that we have proper training colleges that can give the necessary skills to our civil service. If I were the Senator for Busia, I would add that we need to have appropriate technologies and polytechnics of the level equivalent to the Kenya Polytechnic in every county. This is because we want our youths trained so that they benefit from this new dispensation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also stand to support the Motion. I believe that one of the things that people need in governance is training. It is not just for those who are now in the county governments, but for everybody who works for the government. Everybody needs to go back and retrain because of new technologies and what is happening in the world. I believe that for the county governments to move and for the national government to support the counties, there is need for capacity building. It is very important to, first of all, appreciate that we need to immediately think of how we can support those who are in the county governments, using the existing institutions. The governors should come up with ways of facilitating the existing universities in the counties so that they can train their staff instead of using a lot of money going abroad. It is time to relook at their budgets and allocate money for training. I remember that most

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support this Motion which is already belated. It should have come immediately after we embarked on devolution. Nevertheless, it is very important. The training is an aspect that will make or break county governments. Looking at the way it is being handled at the moment, you will see that it is very unsatisfactory. Even the training that was made for the District Focus for Rural Development (DFRD) was more thorough because at every level, starting with Ministers, Permanent Secretaries and others, officers had to go to the Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA). Trainers were trained up to the lowest level of an assistant chief. At that time, we did not have anything like the devolution that we are talking about here. The Transition Authority (TA) has really let us down on this one. It is high time they upped their efforts. The training we are talking about is with regard to imparting managerial skills in areas like Public Finance and Management, Communication Skills and ICT. We should take the ICT sector to the counties. During the recess, I had an opportunity to interact with the County Assembly Members of Trans Nzoia. One of the challenges they are facing is on training. They felt that they were unprepared to handle the responsibility that they were given. We talked about their education level being low, but I could tell from their faces and expressions that they were eager to learn so as to perform. However, there is no tailored training for them. Most of them have not read the Constitution and do not even have copies of it. We have the Public Finance Management Act and the code of regulations. We know that county assembly members were sourced from different sectors. Some were farmers, accountants, teachers and so on. Some governors have not worked in government to understand how the bureaucracy of government works. Without training, we are setting them up for failure. We are also contravening the laws we have put in place. Very soon, we will be blaming them for not conforming to regulations. I remember that at the KIA, the training encompasses all cadres and professionals. Even judges and magistrates had to go to the KIA despite the fact that they had gone to the Kenya School of Law. They had to go to the KIA to learn issues of management. Therefore, governors and all their staff should be given training in areas that affect their performance. The idea of having purposeful training institutions for county governments is proper. I would prefer if we had a training institute specifically for the devolved governments rather than have universities offering degrees. Some of the workers do not have degrees to undergo that type of training. In the meantime, we can start from somewhere, including KIA. The Government has other institutions like the former Government Training Institute (GTI) Mombasa and Baringo. One of them can be dedicated for this kind of training. I support the idea of hon. Sen. Wetangula. I would prefer if we set up one in Kitale since we do not have a major institution there. We need such institutions there. Such an institution would not only be for in-service training, but would also cater for our young people who aspire to pursue careers in Government. Currently, there is recruitment going on for sub county administrators, ward administrators and village administrators. Most of our young men may not get these jobs because of the qualifications that have been put there. They are asking for ten years experience. We are locking them out and yet this is the digital generation that we are talking about. We want to include them. Such institutions need to offer training. We should look at the institution someone has worked for and what experience they have.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion by the distinguished Senator, Sen. Wako. This is a timely Motion, but I will add a rejoinder, as Sen. Kagwe mentioned, that we hope that the Committee on Implementation will follow up on these Motions and ensure that they are implemented. I am happy that you are the Chair of this Committee. I know that you also know that it is important and timely. Just to pick up from what we said yesterday, each county should have its own strategic plan and ensure that in the next five years there are things we will look at and see how they have improved the lives of people and services. We may want to have the county strategic plans in place, but some of the people at the county level, do not have the skills, knowledge or competencies to ensure that they put in place some of the structures we are directing counties to have. It will be important for county personnel to be trained, as Sen. Beatrice said, about attitudes and leadership. Most people who have moved to the counties to serve in various positions are looking at this as an opportunity to get a job. They applied for jobs at the county level and they have now moved their laziness and everything back o the county. We keep on devolving some of the attributes and attitudes from the national level to the county level making them redundant. So, it would be very important to start on the right footing and note. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some people who are now in the county governments and even some of us in leadership, were in other professions before, have confessed that this is the first time that they are finding themselves in a position where they have to serve. They are in the Government to understand the systems. I do not know whether or not they find them frustrating. But it is the first time that some of us are actually interacting with the processes of the Government, including budget making and such kinds of things. So, it would be very important for us and the county personnel to be taken through this training, so that they can familiarize themselves and also deliver. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one of the professions that I used to really admire before was that of diplomats. One of the things that I used to like about them is that every couple of months, they would be at the Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA). I know of a couple of attaches who are being trained at KIA. So, every other day, they are getting training for one thing or the other. After a couple of weeks, they would be back. It is something that I really used to admire. I think that it is important even for us to think about other professions, to continue getting this training once in a while and ensure that we enhance the jobs that they do.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to also contribute to the good Motion that has been brought by Sen. Wako. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, training is very key to the people concerned. This is because we want to achieve the goal that is in our Constitution. Secondly, we are working towards the achievement of devolution and the people concerned with implementation are found at the county level. The executive members and staff who help them in doing this need to get the relevant skills and knowledge that will enable them take up their job so well, for us to enjoy the fruits of devolution. This will enable them get skills that are related to their job description. At the end of it, they will get good results. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, lastly, this training will benefit, not only those who want to get these skills, but also people in our counties who have this profession. I know that it will create jobs for our people. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to reply. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank each and every person who has contributed to this Motion and supported it. I could see that the support was not artificial. It was support which said: This is long overdue. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just touching on a few points that were raised. Yes, this type of institute should not necessarily be based in Nairobi, but in any other place. It can have branches in various places. But from what we have said here, it appears that we cannot wait until a building structure has been put up, professors hired and curriculum agreed upon to start training. I think that the first and immediate issue to me is that the

Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to make. Hon. Senators, in the course of this debate, a lot has been said about the situation of the Motions that we pass in this House and whether or not they are being implemented.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This Motion that we have just concluded affects counties. After the Chair’s Communication, I believe that the logical next step is to put the Question. I request that like we did yesterday with the other Motion, we should schedule this Motion for a vote on Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m., so that we can, alongside the other Motions that we have already scheduled, be able to vote on delegation basis, as is required under the Standing Orders.

Hon. Senators, it is true that this Motion, clearly from the provisions cited in the Constitution, in Articles 1, 6 and 15, and the content in terms of building the capacity of county governments, giving them a framework for capacity building, concerns counties. Consequently, as per the Constitution, this Motion will require that we have, at least, 24 Senators to vote for it to succeed. Considering that the Motion has had overwhelming contribution from the Senators, it is only fair that I accede to the request by the Senate Minority Leader, that we defer the voting of this Motion to next week on 25th September, 2013, at 3.00 p.m., so that we can vote for it together with the other Motions.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just want to seek directions. I accept your ruling about Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. I think that yesterday’s Motion, again, was postponed to Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. It means that Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. is going to be a very important day for voting. Now I think we know that there could be many Senators who are out of the country. They are at The Hague and other places. Would it be in order for them somehow to be requested to give some necessary authority to some Senators here to vote on their behalf because we do not want those counties to miss out on this important vote? I agree we do not have the 24 votes that are required to pass a Motion.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This relates to what the distinguished Senator for Busia has requested the Chair to do which the Chair has no capacity to. The delegation to any Member of this House to vote is not predicated on the direction of the Chair. It is predicated on the convenience of the conduct of any particular delegation. There are some heads of delegations who instinctively may delegate, but others who selfishly may decide not to delegate and they are absolutely right in law under the Constitution and in fact. So, the Chair would be making an order incapable of obedience if it was to venture into that direction.

I think Sen. Wako knows the Constitution very well. He is a seasoned lawyer, senior counsel and part of the team that

Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 19th September, 2013 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.15 p.m.