Hon. Senators, let us determine if we have a quorum.

Hon. Senators, I am informed that there is no quorum. I order that the Division Bell be rung.

Order! Hon. Senators, I am informed that we now have a quorum. We may commence our business.

Hon. Senators, I wish to acknowledge the presence of Members of County Assembly from the Nyeri County. The Delegation is led by hon. Wachira Waruru, who is the chairperson of the Liaison Committee of the Assembly. I will call them by their names and I ask them to rise so that we can recognise them. Hon. Wachira Waruru Hon. Salma Uledi Hon. Baragu Mutahi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give a Ministerial Statement that was requested by the Senator for Kakamega, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The Senator rose on the Floor of the House and requested for the Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation as follows:- (a) The status of all the ongoing construction projects in all counties which have stalled since commencement of devolution. (b) What the Government is doing to reverse the stalling of Sigalagala-Butere-Sidindi Road which has become unmotorable cutting off transport between Sigalagala, Butere and Sidindi leading to loss of livelihoods to thousands of business people and the general public. (c) Whether the Government is aware that as a result of this stalling of the construction of roads across the country, the local contractors who employ over 100,000 Kenyans have been forced to lay off around 5,000 people, therefore, declaring them redundant. (d) What the Government is doing to stop this plight that young Kenyans are faced with, some of whom have been forced to move to South Sudan where they face serious challenges, including being killed. (e) When the Government will to pay these contractors who are owed over Kshs20 billion for certified works on fully completed and ongoing road contracts. (f) What the Government is doing to ensure that the construction machines belonging to these contractors who have liabilities with financial institutions are not seized due to failure of the Government to pay them. (g) Since the function of roads has been devolved to the counties, whether the Government could then clarify if this money that they owe the contractors in their respective counties would be taken to those particular counties, specifically for purposes of settlement of these bills. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairperson for that answer. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that she has referred to 160 projects spread across the whole country in all our counties. I would like to request that since she has attached four annexes; one for 58 projects, 24 projects, 37 and another one for 41 projects, please, indulge me so that I can go and study the answer and also allow Members who have projects in those areas to study it, then I can interrogate her tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support the request by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I would like my question to be answered even before that is done. In the Statement, the Chairperson of the Committee has actually given a general picture that all or nearly all road construction projects in this country have stalled. Even for the Sigalagala-Butere-Sidindi Road, the Government has been planning to allocate Kshs100 million, but that has not been effected. Is the Government broke? Is it not true that the Government is on the verge of bankruptcy?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to second the request by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I am an interested party.

You cannot second because it has already been seconded.

Okay. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to add my voice. The reason I am here apart from that is to basically say that we agreed that this is a House of honour and dignity and Statements that come from here are taken seriously by Kenyans. In that regard, is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Machage to attempt to say that our beloved country - this is not just about politics - can go bankrupt?

Order, Senators! Indeed, given that the presentation had a lot of annexes which were not availed to the Senators, and the Chairperson, in her own words, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought that was specific to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s issue. May I react to Sen. (Dr.) Machage’s issue?

Well, you can deal with Sen. (Dr.) Machage’s latter point of bankruptcy, since Sen. Murkomen purported to be acting on behalf of the Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the self-mobilisation of Sen. Murkomen. This devolution has not been easy. We have had many meetings and this is an issue that kept on coming up. It does not at all mean or imply that the Government is bankrupt. That is a wrong impression. We have had these conversations and we have even had meetings with the National Treasury and money is already flowing to the counties. Already, the Kshs10 billion that was contentious is already flowing to the counties. So, we are not having a bankruptcy issue.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Billow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Chairperson needs to clarify that point. When the Budget of the national Government was approved, the amount allocated for infrastructure, including roads, was in excess of Kshs180 billion. In her answer here, she talked about money not being allocated for some roads and lack of Exchequer releases. In other words, the vote has been made for those roads, but the Exchequer was not available. Could she clarify; if Kshs180 billion plus was allocated for infrastructure, where is that money? It is now the question of spending and not voting for the money because it was already voted by the House of Parliament.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the query from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs. My response was on the specifics that were asked in this Statement. I know that the emerging issues will be dealt with after the Senator who had sought the Statement goes through the annexes. I am also informed that the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs had a meeting with the National Treasury. So, I had hoped he would help on the issue of flow of money from there to the counties. The issue regarding roads, I had said that Kshs10 billion was mistakenly taken to the counties. This had been a problem, but eventually, the National Treasury got the Kshs10 billion. This money was supposed to have been wired last week but one.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Billow? She said she is expecting support from you. That cannot be contentious.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you know this is not a House of rumours. You heard the Member say that she thought we were meeting. We were not meeting anybody from Treasury to discuss in-flows or out-flows of money. The question that the hon. Senator needs to explain from her Committee is; how much money was allocated by the national Government to roads in this financial years and how it has been spent. Why are those roads not being financed? That is what she needs to tell the House. It is not about the Kshs10 billion that is being refunded.

Sen. Billow, while at it, I am happy you are saying that this is not a House of rumours, but neither is it a House for ambiguities. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we had no meeting with the National Treasury.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in her submission, she alluded to the fact that, indeed, contractual obligations of the Government in payment of the contractors has not been carried out. They have not done their obligations as per the contract. Is it not true that several contractors have actually taken the Government to court demanding the cost of non-payments in time? Where does the Government intend to get that money that will be used to pay the contractors for their omitting or refusing to respect the contractual obligations as signed by the two bodies?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Keter?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am wondering whether it is in order to continue interrogating the Statement yet you have made a ruling that it will come tomorrow afternoon. Could we make progress by dealing with other issues?

Order, Senators! Indeed, Sen. Keter, you are right. I hope Sen. (Dr.) Machage is listening to me. Sen. (Dr.) Machage was the second Senator to seek for a clarification after seconding the request by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for deferment of the interrogation of the Statement. Surely, you cannot be the one proceeding again to interrogate the Statement when you had requested for deferment and you were granted. So, I rule that your questions be responded to tomorrow and not today. The only burning issue was whether the Government is broke or not and that was clarified. Since you have no matter pursuing on the same, although you are trying to do the same through a different routing, that can wait for tomorrow. So, let us proceed. UPGRADING OF THE MACHAKOS-KANGUNDO ROAD TO BITUMEN STANDARDS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also responding to a request for a Ministerial Statement sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Muthama. The Senator for Machakos, Sen. Muthama, rose on the Floor of the House and requested for the Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation as follows:- (a) How many roads are ear-marked for upgrading to bitumen standards throughout the country, county by county breakdown required? (b) Why has the Machakos-Kangundo Road not been tarmacked, besides the process of tendering and tarmacking being completed in 2006/2007 and awarded to H-Young Company. (c)When will the work commence. I beg to reply. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this particular Statement concerns 164 projects; 26 of them on KeRRA and 138 on KURA. All these are annexed. It is also important because it cuts across the whole nation. Could we be given more time to study it? I beg for deferment.

Tomorrow afternoon!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is okay.

It is so directed. Tomorrow afternoon. Next Order!

Next Order!

Who was contributing? Sen. Sijeny!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to support the Motion by Sen. Chelule and thank her for bringing it. The Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) and the Government of Kenya should take an example from other countries. This is a situation that many countries have dealt with, for example, Brazil. The World Bank invested a lot in Brazil in the 1980s and 1990s to make sure that the direct credit programme was enhanced. This was after acknowledging that agriculture is the backbone of the society.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, agriculture helps to reduce poverty and helps the economy grow. It is also the backbone of many other sectors, including the industrial sector. The reason I support this Motion is because Kenya will be headed into some danger zone where the country will continue to be poor and the inflation rate will continue to be high. That will certainly not make our country competitive. If the agricultural sector is not nurtured properly, then the farmers will cease to become competitive. They will not bring in competitive yields and will not be able to get modern equipment that will help them get bigger yields. The Brazilian Government had noticed this gap and, in fact, they increased their loan facilities and the supply of direct credit. Choosing to increase the interest rate has major consequences. It results in low agricultural output. We know that Kenya is basically an agricultural State. Many people, especially the poor, rely on agriculture. If a family is able to feed itself, it does not matter if they do not have large tracts of land, big industries or real estates. They should be able to feed themselves, pay school fees for their children and get good medical care. If the interest rates are too high, they could die. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have seen how the tea industry has suffered in the past. If we do not protect the poor who are the agriculturalists, we will lose it. We know that, recently, Kenya was blessed with discovery of minerals, oil and gas, but that is still a myth. We also know that titanium has been discovered at the coast, but still Kenyans have not realized the benefits. So, we are still majorly an agricultural State. Low agricultural output has a negative effect on the economy. Kenya is struggling so hard to maintain the inflation rate which continues to grow. If interest rates are not controlled, Kenyans will not be able to sustain themselves. Kenyans will not be able to expand the use of technology in the agricultural sector if they do not have incomes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to contribute to this important Motion. I stand here to declare my support for the Motion. As the Mover of the Motion has stated, agriculture is the backbone of Kenya’s economy. In Kiswahili they say: Kilimo ni uti wa mgongo wa taifa letu . This is a statement that is made every time. This is a statement that has been made ever since this country came into being. However, we give lip service to this statement. Therefore, this Motion is so appropriate because if Kenya is to be self sufficient in food production, then we must put in place policies that are conducive to making that activity the backbone of our Kenyan economy. I say this because even the 10 per cent that the AFC charges to farmers is not for farmers. That is purely a commercial loan. In other countries, like it has been mentioned by the previous speaker, farmers get the lowest interest rate that the Government can afford. We cannot leave farmers at the mercy of banks most of which are mercenaries. I say this because, more often than not, even the AFC is unable to give loans to all the farmers who need it. Some farmers are left to go and look for loans from commercial banks. The results are devastating, particularly when crops fail. Therefore, I want our Government to be friendlier to farmers if we are to afford to be food secure and self sufficient in food production. There is nothing as important as food. The stability of any nation is dependent on the Government’s ability to make sure that its people are self sufficient in food production and that whenever people want food, it is available. If the past Governments had put in place policies which are conducive to food production, what we see every time - our Presidents going abroad to beg for food - would not be happening. That is why I want to support this Motion very strongly. In fact, it should have come before this time. Why should our farmers be cheated into paying very high interest rates when we know that whatever they produce cannot even pay those interests? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in other countries, farmers’ inputs are subsidized by governments. But when it comes to our country, we are told that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has told the Government not to subsidize the farmers. It is a pity those governments who form the IMF are the ones who subsidize their farmers. However, when they come to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Nakushukuru sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Wazo hili la Sen. Liza la kuleta maendeleo katika taifa la Kenya limekuja wakati ufaao. Bw. Spika wa Muda, Sen. Liza ameangazia mawazo yake kwa hili shirika la fedha la kilimo ambalo linajulikana kama AFC. Naomba kwamba riba ambayo shirika hili linawatoza wakulima ya asilimia 10 ipunguzwe hadi asilimia tatu. Kwa kufanya hivyo, shirika hili litakuwa likiangazia mawazo yake kwa shida za wakulima. Tunajua kwamba tangu Uhuru, miaka karibu 50 iliyopita, kumekuwa na mambo ya kunyanyasa wakulima kila wakati. Kuna utumwa mamboleo kwa sababu mambo yao ni kufanya kazi lakini hawaoni yale ambayo wanafanyia kazi. Hii ni kwa sababu ya riba kubwa inayotozwa mikopo na shirika hili. Kama ni kuuza mazao, mara nyinigi hakuna soko au wanauza kwa bei duni. Wakati mwingi hata nafaka zao huchukuliwa bila malipo na mashirika ambayo yanajifanya kuwa yamefilisika. Nina mfano wa kampuni kama Mastermind ambayo huchukua mazao ya tumbaku kutoka sehemu za Nyanza kusini, ikijidai kwamba inaweza kulipa. Hata hivyo, wanakaa na mazao hayo miaka nenda, miaka rudi, bila kulipa. Jambo hili ni lazima likataliwe kabisa. Bw. Spika wa Muda, Maseneta hupewa mikopo na Serikali kwa ajili ya ujenzi wa nyumba zao na hata kununua magari ya kifahari kwa riba ya asilimia tatu tu. Hivi majuzi, Bi. Sara Serem, alikubali kwamba wabunge wa kaunti pia wapewe mikopo ya Kshs3 milioni kwa ajili ya kununua vitu kama vile nilivyotaja kwa riba ya asilimia tatu. Kwa hivyo, inawezekana kutoa riba ya asilimia tatu kwa wananchi wa Kenya. Swali ni: Je, wananchi wote wa Kenya ni sawa? Kama wananchi wote wa Kenya ni sawa kwani wale ambao wako uongozini wanapewe mikopo kwa riba ndogo ilhali wakulima ambao pia ni wapiga kura, bado wanaendelea kunyanyaswa kwa riba ya asilimia 10? Huu ni unyanyasaji. Bw. Spika wa Muda, wale watega uchumi wakubwa au mabwenyenye wanataka mkulima mdogo apewe mkopo kwa riba ya asilimia 10 halafu ashindwe kulipa. Huyo The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for the opportunity. I rise to support this Motion and thank the Mover, Sen. Liza Chelule. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Standing Orders are very clear; if a Senator wants to discuss another Senator, he should do so by moving a substantive Motion. Is he in order to impute wrong and ill motives on Sen. (Dr.) Machage, without doing so through a substantive Motion?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am inclined to stand my ground, but I do not wish to entertain the combined effort of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a point of information from Sen. Yusuf Haji, which I accept.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate Leader of Majority is only confirming what happened. My colleague lost his position as an Assistant Minister because of hate speech.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I say no more, but I had my own reasons for saying that I do not wish to entertain the combined wrath of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Dr.) Machage; so, I am willing to back down---

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, earlier on in the afternoon, the Speaker ruled that this is not the House of ambiguity or rumours. It is a fact which has been documented. You are a lawyer and an advocate of the High Court and you know that Sen. (Dr.) Machage went through the due process and he was acquitted. He was found not to have participated in hate speech. The Chair should find it necessary to find that these two honourable Senators are misleading the House. They are imputing improper motives on Sen. (Dr.) Machage, and they should withdraw and apologize. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I think we need to dispose of that issue. As far as the Chair is concerned, I heard the Senate Majority Leader state that Sen. (Dr.) Machage was a veteran of hate speech accusation, but he did not say conviction.

So, proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Machage mentioned something about the COMESA, the sugar industry and why bringing in of cheap sugar has affected our sugar industry here. I wanted to say respectfully that I have a different view. I think our problems in the sugar industry stem from other factors, including our methods of production which make our sugar very expensive. In fact, on the contrary, for more than twelve years now, we have been imposing safeguard measures which have been aimed at protecting our sugar industry from imports, and that has still not worked. If it is possible that sugar can come all the way from Brazil, enter Kenya and become cheaper than sugar produced locally, then it means that the problems are elsewhere and they are not in the dumping of foreign sugar. The problems may stem from our methods of production. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having said that, I want to support fully the financing of sugar, other crops and agriculture as a whole; and livestock production so that we can turn around the economy of our country. The only way we can spur the growth of that sector is by making credit affordable. The surest way of making credit affordable is by the Government taking leadership in cushioning farmers, especially small scale farmers, from adverse effects of high interest rates. For all those reasons, I beg to support this Motion.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to, first of all, commend the Mover of this Motion for a very well thought out and researched Motion which, surely, touches on the hearts of every one of us in this country. Why am I saying this? In my own right, I am a farmer. Secondly, God gave us the best land in the world in which you can grow anything from flowers for export, our coffee, tea, vegetables for export. You just name it, everything can be grown in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if there is a home breaker, allow me to use those words, it is the AFC. There is nobody else, but the AFC. The AFC has subjected our people to poverty to the extent of them even committing suicide because of the penalties that have been imposed on them. If you see the misery around the countryside, for those of us who are farmers, we surely feel sorry for this country. I would like to borrow those words of the Senate Majority Leader by giving the examples of Malawi, Bangladesh or even Philippines, where they have banks for farmers. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Mover of this Motion has a heart for the people of this country. Surely, I would support this Motion and I believe that the Senate, as a whole, will sympathize with the plight of the many farmers who have suffered in this country. Some of their children have even been denied the chance to continue with their schooling because of the heavy penalties that have been imposed on the farmers. When you look at other countries that have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Senate Deputy Majority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. From the outset, I wish to join my colleagues who have already contributed towards this Motion. I have heard people talk about the AFC so much. The speaker who was here, the Senator from Trans Nzoia, Sen. Kittony, said that the AFC is a home breaker, which I want to correct by saying that it is not the AFC; it is the repayment of the loan which is causing problems. This is because the AFC requested for Kshs1.3 billion in the current budget, out of which, they were given nothing. Therefore, as a State corporation, they have obligations. So, if they have given out loans at the rate of 10 per cent, they have to collect that 10 per cent so that they can also give it to other people. I remember I asked for a loan from the AFC, but they could not afford to give me the loan because their liquidity is not stable. Hence, it does not mean that they are not doing their work. They are doing their work. The Motion is requesting the interest rates to be reduced from 10 per cent to 3 per cent so that we give room to farmers to pay. If you look at the import of the Motion, you will see that there is no room for farmers to pay. The rate of 10 per cent is causing problems in our respective homes. If this is reduced from 10 per to 3 per cent, the interest will still remain high because there are natural calamities that may affect our farmers. At times, flooding, weather The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. A time came when I thought that my eye was not catching someone, but now I am happy that I have caught your eye. I want to contribute to this very important Motion. There are things that we do not even need to talk about here since they are obvious in the sense that we must feed our people. That is an obligation. It is obvious that we hail from a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I know a lot has already been said about this Motion and how timely it is. I want to add my voice by congratulating the Mover of the Motion; knowing that she comes from Kuresoi, I know that she is very passionate about farming and she has said so herself. I want to say that this Motion is very timely. A country that cannot feed itself does not have moral ground to talk of being industrialized and a first world country until everyone can have food on their table. It is very heartbreaking and I know this was brought up a few weeks ago in the starvation statistics; that we are already staring at a food crisis in this country. We watched on national television a woman who had not eaten for three days. It is very sad and very heartbreaking to see a child trying to breastfeed from breasts that do not have anything. We cannot be proud as leaders if we cannot put food on the tables of Kenyans. As we know, there have been effects of global warming. Gone are the days when we could predict the beginning of the short and long rains. Nowadays you cannot predict that. The people who came up with the AFC and most of the other parastatals that deal with agriculture were founded on the basis of supporting farmers’ right from when they are preparing their land to the planting stage. That is where we talk of provision of seeds. We even have reports of farmers getting poor seeds from the same Government. Apart from that, the purpose of AFC was to complete that chain after planting and even in the management of the plants as they grow, up to the day when we shall harvest and distribute them. I know we have had problems, especially with the marketing. This touches on the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB). Even right now, the stores of NCPB are not open. This subjects the farmers to having middle men to buy the maize at throwaway prices and yet the NCPB is supposed to assist them to get value for their money. We should have an agricultural parastatal that is supposed to subsidize and support the farmers. Every time they default, which is not necessarily pre-meditated, but because of issues that are beyond our control, especially for the small farmer, they should be assisted. The moment you have planted, you can only rely on God that the rains will come, but when they do not, the rate of interest is doubled. If you have a loan with the AFC that is standing at 10 per cent interest rate, if you default, that rate is doubled. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Issues to do with agriculture are very sensitive in this country. I am happy that a Member of my delegation brought up this Motion. From our counties, these are matters that are close to the farmers who are there. I wish to state that I fully support the Motion due to the fact that it is talking about the reduction of interest rates from 10 per cent to 3 per cent. Like Sen. Kittony has said, I am a farmer and when I contribute to this Motion, I will do it from a very passionate point of view. When you charge a farmer an interest rate of 10 per cent and any other businessman is charged 12 per cent by a commercial bank, literally, what you have done is that you have finished this farmer. When you look at the external factors that affect farming, they are varied and some of them do not forgive, especially when you talk about the weather. Therefore, I also support that the loans that farmers owe the AFC be written off because when a farmer plants a crop, he or she majorly relies on the weather to ensure that they harvest and sell so that they can repay the loans. If anything happens, be it natural or otherwise, it means that this farmer will never be able to recover the costs of the fertilizer that they used and even the seed itself and many other inputs that are involved in growing of some of these crops. It is, therefore, wrong for us to have a body that continues to charge interest and even sometimes sells farmers properties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Motion should go further and propose that any farmer who is unable to repay the loan, their farms should not be sold. There should be prohibition of selling of farmers’ properties in default. If this is done, just like what Sen. Kittony said, it creates a lot of problems even in marriages. As we propose that the interest rate goes down to 3 per cent, this can only be addressed if the other factors that are affecting our farmers are looked into. I am The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. Lonyangapuo, you have only three minutes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion which is, indeed, very timely. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are 50 years old as a nation and a number of Senators here are below 50 years old. There is a song that we used to sing which said that agriculture is the strength of the nation. It is even written that it is the backbone of the Kenyan economy. But what value have we put to agriculture ever since the first Government took power? I want to give credit and praise to the first Government that brought Independence and the second Government for putting agriculture at the top. Look at the structures that they put in place, like the AFC. It was supposed to create an enabling environment where farmers would take affordable loans. A farmer was supposed to go to the Kenya Farmers Association (KFA) and pick UP seed and fertilizers. The KFA was supposed to be buying bulk fertilizer from abroad at a cheap rate, subsidized by the Government. But now the KFA is dead and the AFC also went down. When it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Your time is up!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

I now call upon the Mover of the Motion to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have ten minutes to reply, but Sen. Mong’are has requested to also contribute to this Motion. I humbly donate three minutes to him.

You have seven minutes, because your brother, Sen. Lonyangapuo, has already taken three minutes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I donate three minutes to Sen. Mong’are.

Okay!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I wish to thank Sen. Chelule for this timely Motion which I support. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, things changed during the NARC Government because a lot was done in terms of subsidies. Some loans were also written off. We need to get the data of all the loans accruing with farmers. It is so tragic and sad that 50 years after Independence, our farmers have become workers in the factories and industries in that regard. Even the idea of amalgamation of corporations, especially including the AFC, must be very well thought out in terms of assets and liabilities of these corporations, so that we can know the way forward. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this time again. I must take this opportunity to congratulate my fellow Senators for contributing positively towards this Motion. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as we all know, agriculture provides support for the rural economic growth. It is one of the avenues through which poverty reduction and rural economic development can be achieved. It is surprising that the AFC is not getting any funding from the Government. If there is something very important in this country, it is the support to the farmers. The Government needs to support the farmers through empowering the AFC. The AFC is supposed to be elevated to a bank, because it is the only remedy to the issues that affect the farmers in the country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also surprising that there is Kshs1.3 billion that was allocated to the AFC and it has not received it. It is my prayer that the Government gives this money to the AFC, because empowering it is much cheaper than using money to buy food from outside this country. So, it is my request that the Government supports our farmers through the AFC. This will improve food production and encourage most of our citizens who are farmers. About 80 per cent of our citizens are farmers. If these people could be encouraged by being given cheap credit, most of them will engage in farming activities. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to reply.

Hon. Senators, this is not a matter affecting counties, but basically farmers and Kenyans. Therefore, I would like to put the Question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that science, technology and innovation (STI) are critical to the attainment of Kenya’s Vision 2030; cognizant of the fact that harnessing of STI would The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo! You have made extensive definitions of various subjects in science and technology. You know that this is a very important exercise for the record and, as a scholar and a professor, it will also be very useful for this House that you acknowledge all the sources of the definitions that you are using. As you know, other definitions might exist, but the sources are very important for the record.

Indeed, you are right, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just said that you can get them in the dictionary. I did not go to the details, but Oxford Dictionary is one of them. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I decided to mention this because sometimes we may wonder what science, technology and innovation are, and that is the reason I am putting a lot of emphasis on the same. In the syllabus which we use to normally train our children in primary schools, right from nursery to high school and to universities, there is a lot of emphasis on theory, where we carry on what we learned from the beginning. We decided to read the books that were written during those days not knowing that today, science is the driver of most of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. My complements go to the Professor. Every time I listen to him, he pleases me. Clearly, he researches on his stuff before coming to the House. Probably, that is why he is the Chairman of Kabarak University. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform my colleague, now that he has talked about the Nyayo Car, that I was the first PS for Industrialisation. That car is in the Numerical Machines yard. I am told that when we stopped working on it, Malaysia came for the documents. They went and utilized the information. Today, they have a car, thanks to our innovation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is amazing how professors come up with good things, but leave out little details. All they needed to do was to patent their good works. If they had patented their work, this idea would not have been stolen from them. However, there it is. Something went wrong. We lost it all when we went the route of the 8-4-4 system of education. Most Senators here are very young and they do not know that in the system that you and I went through, there was an attempt to specialize children and even identify talent. After form four or O-Level, we were deliberately taken to the science side of the system or the art oriented system. In the process, before you joined university, you had an idea of specialization. That is how some of us, not by accident, became doctors of medicine because we were allowed to pursue pure sciences at A-Level. It is important that countries that were with us in the same club of third world counties like Brazil and India have now broken through thanks to science, research and technology. It is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to refer to your stature as Speaker as a Member of a Government in power and yet, we know for a fact that this is an independent arm of Government that is not necessarily in power in the strictest sense of the word?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very sorry for missing on that. Indeed, Sen. Hassan is right that you are not a Member of the Executive, but a Member of the Legislature. But I know that your friendship goes beyond particular separation of powers. In fact, your DNA is such that you have the luxury of having the big ear of the hard working Deputy President of Kenya. Tell him that the people of Kakamega County are wondering when the Government takes Kshs3 billion to go and invest in a new factory in Narok, why can they not have the same amount of money or even a half of it to come and answer some of the challenges that the already existing proven productive factories are going through? Is it that there is an attempt to divert the economy of Kakamega County to Narok so that we go down on our knees to continue voting for some people in this country? With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you must have missed some steps a little bit. This House works through Committees. If there is any message that needs to be conveyed to the Executive, you know how to do it. You can come through a question or propose to the Committee of Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources which is deputized by your able friend and a Member of United Democratic Front (UDF). They can answer those questions. So, next time you should follow the right channels. Besides, you are a senior Member of this House and you are able to do so without intermediaries.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, science and technology are the main drivers of our economy. Any country which does not believe in science or does not invest in research is a country that is doomed to fail because, at the end of the day, that is what determines the society that we will live in today if we are serious in investing in research, science and technology right from primary to secondary schools. We should develop a system whereby science and technology in this country become a solution to every problem we face. We must be willing to start from that lower level right from the primary and secondary levels.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to also contribute to this very relevant and important Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to contribute and support this Motion on science, technology and innovation. I am looking at science, technology and innovation to be a potential and significant contributor towards the attainment of Vision 2030. It also helps to mainstream the system of education at all levels of education and academia. It goes a long way in the creation of science, technology and innovation in our Kenyan culture. It will also contribute more effectively in increasing confidence when dealing with science, technology and innovation, including developing curiosity and skills and all methods of inquiry in our young ones who are still of school going age. Madam Temporary Speaker, science and technology also prepares students to be responsible in their future as Kenyan citizens. It prepares some of them to pursue higher education and career in this line of science and technology. The issue of science and technology helps children because as they graduate from primary education and move on to secondary schools, they are equipped with skills for eight years, and these skills help them reach a stage of maturity which in turns helps them to have a developed mind and a positive attitude towards science as a career in their lives. Madam Temporary Speaker, many young people feel differently towards science. They believe it is beyond their understanding simply because they develop a negative attitude towards it because of the way it is introduced in their academic life. Science and technology plays a significant role because it is a technology. If this technology is well developed, it can also boost the economy of the country. It is also a way which can build the capacity of people such that many people who are not involved in white collar jobs can engage themselves in self employment, thus reducing poverty levels and also the number of people seeking employment. Because when people have science within themselves and they are able to become good innovators, then the issue of looking for opportunities to be hired in white collar jobs reduces. So many young ones come up as innovators and they create job opportunities for others and for themselves. Madam Temporary Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to support this Motion.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. From the outset, I rise to support this Motion. I know that we have put a target of achieving the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) by 2015. That is lowering of mortality rates and the eradication of many diseases, including malaria. But when I look at our country, I think we are still very far from achieving these goals. Of course, there are various attempts which have been made, especially on the development of vaccines. I have seen scientists come up with trial vaccines for HIV/AIDS, resistant tuberculosis, and now as you know, there is already a polio vaccination that is going on and which can be attributed to the research that has been done by the scientists of this country. Madam Temporary Speaker, having said that, I think we cannot over-emphasize the importance of having science and technology being inculcated from the very young age of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have noticed that we do not have a quorum. We should, probably, try to raise quorum so that we have more Senators deliberating on this.

Yes, we do not have a quorum. Could we have the bell being rung?

Hon. Senators, this is unfortunate. First of all, I took note of the fact that this Bill was being debated without a heavy presence of the Education and Information Technology Members in the House. Secondly, our Whips should do a better job in getting our Senators to the House. Therefore, there being no quorum, the House is adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 20th November, 2013 at 9.00 am. This Bill will continue for another one hour and 40 minutes when resume tomorrow. The Senate rose at 6.00 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate