Hon. Senators, pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and Section 33 of the County Governments Act No.17of 2012, on 14th May 2014, the County Assembly of Kericho approved a Motion “to remove from office by impeachment”, the County Governor of Kericho County. By letter dated 15th May 2014, and received in the Office of the Speaker of the Senate on 16th May 2014, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kericho informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate the following documents:- 1. The Order Paper of 14th May 2014. 2. The HANSARD Report of 14th May 2014. 3. Particulars of the allegations leveled against the Governor. I have directed that these documents be made available to all Senators. The documents will be available in the Table Office which is located on the ground floor next to the Senators’ lounge in this building. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to seek your guidance if we are satisfying the provisions of Standing Order No.68 1(a). Standing Order No.68 (1) reads that within seven days after receiving notice of resolution from the Speaker of the County Assembly supporting the removal of a Governor of a county, pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution: (a) The Speaker of the Senate shall convene a meeting of the Senate to hear charges against the Governor. The provisions of Section 68 (1) (a) are very clear; that your were convening this sitting so that we can hear the charges. From the way we are proceeding, I see the only agenda on our Order Paper today is to pass a Motion to approve names of Committee Members and yet the Standing Order says that the House should hear the charges and then the Senate by resolution may – after hearing the charges – appoint a special committee comprising 11 of its Members to investigate this matter. I have a feeling that we are breaching our own Standing Orders because Section 68 (1) (a) is very explicit. I think we are not adhering to the provisions of that particular Standing Order. I seek your guidance. Thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The importance of the point of order by Sen. Khaniri is such that we do not proceed in accordance with Section 68 (1) (a). It will then make it difficult for us or for those Senators who will not be in this Committee to be properly apprised of the charges. It is important that if we choose to form this Committee, the charges should be the property of the House, formally in the normal manner so that as they proceed, we also will be familiarizing ourselves with those charges with a view of contributing from the recommendations of that Committee and also from our own little research that we shall have done. Therefore, I request that you rule on Sen. Khaniri’s point of order and probably find that he is in order.

As usual, I want to thank Sen. Khaniri for being keen in terms of pointing out some of these things, except he is not reading it in entirety. This House works in two ways and the Motion also proposes that you can exploit both options. First is to determine this matter at the plenary which is an option we are given The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give Notice of the following Motion:- THAT, WHEREAS, pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and section 33 of the County Governments Act, 2012, on 14th May, 2014, the County Assembly of Kericho approved a Motion “to remove from office, by impeachment,” the County Governor of Kericho County; AND FURTHER, WHEREAS by letter dated 15th May, 2014 (Ref: KCA/GOV/Vol./1) and received in the Office of the Speaker of the Senate on 16th May, 2014, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kericho informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate documents in evidence of the proceedings of the Assembly; AND WHEREAS, pursuant to section 33(3)(b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and standing order 68(1)(b) of the Senate, the Senate by resolution may appoint a special committee comprising eleven of its Members to investigate the matter; NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to section 33(3) (b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and standing order 68(1)(b), the Senate resolves to establish a special Committee comprising the following Senators - 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi 2. Sen. Stephen Sang’ 3. Sen. Daniel Karaba 4. Sen. Fatuma Dullo The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, whereas pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and Section 33 of the County Governments Act, 2012, on 14th May, 2014, the County Assembly of Kericho approved a Motion “to remove from office, by impeachment,” the County Governor of Kericho County; AND FURTHER, WHEREAS by letter dated 15th May, 2014 (Ref: KCA/GOV/Vol./1) and received in the Office of the Speaker of the Senate on 16th May, 2014, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kericho informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate documents in evidence of the proceedings of the Assembly; AND WHEREAS, pursuant to section 33(3)(b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and Standing Order 68(1)(b) of the Senate, the Senate by resolution, may appoint a special committee comprising eleven of its Members to investigate the matter; NOW,THEREFORE, pursuant to Section 33(3)(b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and Standing Order 68(1)(b), the Senate resolves to establish a special committee comprising the following Senators - 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi 2. Sen. Stephen Sang’ 3. Sen. Daniel Karaba 4. Sen. Fatuma Dullo 5. Sen. Beatrice Elachi 6. Sen. Billow Kerrow 7. Sen. Danson Mwazo Mwakulegwa 8. Sen. Christopher Mogere Obure 9. Sen. Abdirahman Ali Hassan The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hoja ya nidhamu Bw. Spika. Singependa kumkatiza Kiongozi wa Wengi lakini amesema kwamba jukumu la Seneti hii ni ku- impeach magavana. Hakuendelea kusema kwamba Katiba inaongea juu ya gavana na Rais. Ni sawa kwake kutaja magavana pekee bila kutaja Rais?

Kiongozi wa Wengi.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to appreciate the point of order from my brother, the Senator for Kwale County. In your Communication this afternoon, you have just said that we are focused on a very specific agenda today.

No! No!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I listened to you very carefully. I did not hear you say that today we are here to discuss on the role of the Senate and who the Senate has powers to impeach. Now that the matter has arisen and for the record – I am sure my brother has heard me, even outside this House – it is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. You had started well. I do not know why you decided to digress. In fact, you had listened very carefully and I was about to commend you for that and for applying what you heard. Those other things can find their place another time. Proceed.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Therefore, let us make it clear, at least in my perspective, that it should not be a question of how many governors we receive who have been recommended for impeachment. For me, that is not the question. The deeper question must be how meritious and justified is whatever proposals we get in this House and how we determine those requests. Therefore, this Motion being in connection with the establishment of a special committee, I have seen in this list a very broad representation of the two major political parties in this House. There is also consideration for gender and regional diversity. I have also seen that because this is the second committee of this nature, if formed, none of the Members who is proposed here has served in the previous committee. This is good practice. I know nothing prevents the same Senators from sitting in this committee again and again but it is only fair that we give as many Senators as possible a chance to participate in this very critical and solemn duty of accountability in our counties. This afternoon, therefore, once again the proposed Senators are confronted with battling with the balances that must be created firstly with regard to the role of Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) in this process and with regard to protecting, entrenching and supporting the role of MCAs to oversight county executives. That is one pillar of the balances that these men and women; the hon. Senators; will be confronted with. That role is constitutional. The role of the MCAs is legitimate and it is so critical if devolution has to survive. As we have said many times, devolution is not just about pumping money, resources and authority to the grassroots. It is also about dispersing accountability to the lowest level of governance. This Committee will be hoisted with the very critical responsibility of reflecting the maturity and objectivity of this House that has been established without question. Therefore, our approach and through our colleagues in terms of complying with the County Governments Act, the Constitution and our Standing Orders, discharging this duty will be very critical . The proposed Committee will also help us, hopefully, when they do their report to try and help the Senate and this country to be able to understand how we can strengthen accountability and create the appropriate balances at the county level, so that no arm of government is subordinate to the other. I say this because if you look at Article 96 of the Constitution - and the Committee should really help us grapple with this matter - this Article talks about representing and protecting counties and county governments. The term “county governments” refers to the two arms of government that have been The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Catherine, a Banker!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Sorry, Catherine Mukiite. The problem is, on a light note, if you look at the list, the Jubilee Senators are using two names. The CORD names are three names. Sometimes we get mixed up.

We need to be brief. Too many details sometimes can cause a bit of confusion.

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki! How does that account for you reading Beatrice to Catherine?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just explaining that by the time you realize you are talking about my sister, Sen. Mukiite, you have to read a sentence of names and it is one person.

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When?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Like if it is a wedding, during a funeral, the final rites. But in ordinary times, we want to hear Agnes Zani, Kithure Kindiki, Moses Wetanguala and so on. I want to say that I have a lot of faith in all my colleagues in this list. Each one of them brings some background whether from the private or public sectors that will enrich the work of this Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in all this, I hope the Committee will go with an open mind. Of course, I do not expect that any Member of this honourable House will be prejudiced because our work is to ensure that in all these things, justice is done. As the third stanza of our National Anthem says, “Let justice be our shield and defender”. So, the Committee is not supposed to support the Governor, the MCAs or the Senate at the expense of other institutions. It is simply to help this Senate to do justice. As I end my remarks, through this Committee and given the thoroughness of the work that we expect them to give us, this Senate will once again confirm that this is a House of refuge for those that feel that they have been oppressed or treated unfairly. I want to believe that this Committee will bring out this Senate as a House which is not shy to bite when it must but a House which also, when matters are not substantiated, is not ashamed to say “no”. That is the open mindedness that we expect to see from this Committee. Finally, on my behalf as the Mover of this Motion and as a Senator and Leader of the Majority, I want to send – and I believe I am talking, on behalf of my colleagues – a message to county governments, the Executive and the Legislature, that the Senate is not interested in anything else other than ensuring that the law is followed. All governors in this country who are doing a good job must be protected, respected and dignified to continue with the good job. But in the same vein, all governors who are looting and they think that the county coffers are private family resources, be warned that the Senate of the Republic of Kenya will hunt you down and make sure we send you not only out of your office, but to jail forever. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to move. In the tradition of this House, I want to request my great friend, brother and---

And Senior in the legal profession!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Senior in the legal profession - I am not so sure whether he is still an active lawyer, because I still am. I call upon my junior in this House, Sen. Moses Masika Wetangula, to come and second the Motion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the man who did not want us to use three names suddenly pronounces my three names. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to introduce unhealthy, unhelpful and dishonest political issues in a Motion to establish this Committee? In particular, is the Senate Minority Leader in order to talk about the Jubilee Coalition strengthening the provincial administration at the expense of county governments? He is aware that this matter has already been discussed by the President, by all Governors in their Council and they agreed that the issue was handled professionally, constitutionally and legitimately. So, is he in order to introduce politics in this Motion?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Do you have to flog a dead horse, really? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know that everybody here watches news. I looked at those Governors agreeing to what the distinguished Senator said and they looked like captives. However, that is for another day.

Whatever they agreed does not stop you from expressing yourself, only that this is not the place.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I invite everybody to acquaint themselves with Schedule Six, Section 17 of the Constitution 2010 and they will understand what I am saying. However, let me conclude what I was saying by thanking all Members whose names were read here for agreeing because we consulted them before they agreed to serve in this Committee. I want to thank them and to encourage them to be fair, fearless and honest to the law, honest to the facts and to bring an acceptable verdict to this House which we shall own, vote for and support. For the Governor who is watching out there, I want to encourage you that nobody is after you. It is your conduct that will hurt you. I beg to second.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Motion. I agree with the comments made by the Senate Majority Leader in support of the Motion and the Senate Minority Leader. I want to repeat, particularly, what the Senate Majority Leader said about our constitutional responsibilities. This is something that we cannot run away from. Unfortunately, these matters of impeachment, the origination of this process does not lie with the Senate. It lies somewhere else. Once that process has been undertaken in accordance with the law, Constitution and with the County Governments Act and in accordance with the Standing Orders of the County Assemblies, our competencies begin after the Speaker has received a resolution. Once the Speaker has received that resolution, there is a constitutional mandate and authority that must be exercised beginning with the Speaker. Within a number of days, the Speaker must convene the House, for example, if the House is in recess. All I can say is that nobody out there should be worried about the Senate. I have listened to the Senate in previous proceedings, I have been in one Committee and I am of the fullest confidence that by the nature of those who represent the people of Kenya, we will not take it upon ourselves to punish any Governor for extraneous reasons irrespective The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I support firmly the names of distinguished Senators who have been proposed to sit in this Committee. I support them because I am one of the Senators who had the privilege of being appointed by this House to sit in the last Committee. I want to encourage my colleagues and tell them that indeed they are equal to the task. It is an onerous task because when I sat in that Committee, a lot of intimidation happens, a lot of gerrymandering, people looking for you so that they can compromise you but I am sure that this team that has been selected by this House will deliver. I also support firmly the comments of my colleagues that indeed the intention and the purpose of this House is to ensure that justice is dispensed; no matter who is guilty or who is not. As we do that, it is also important as a House that we also pronounce ourselves firmly that we will not sit back although we want to see justice done to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Wamatangi! I want to give you the assurance that nobody has the capacity to make me disappear.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That assurance is necessary because that trend is very worrying. All in all, I support the eleven Members who have been appointed by this House to do the honourable duty of ensuring that justice prevails as far as charges concerning the Governor of Kericho County are concerned. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I may be revisiting where you ruled on the procedure in this House. We need to set a precedence on how we rule. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order. This is on a procedural matter. The Speaker made the ruling on this matter and even the two Members who had raised that point of order have conceded, from the body language and some even vocalized it; they were very satisfied. If you are making reference to the legal minds, the Minority Leader who might be a junior to the Majority Leader in the House but he is senior in practice. So, I think that matter is settled. Let us proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may, we are putting the cart before the horse. I need to be on record in this House that if we go on with these proceedings the way we are doing, we might be giving the former Governor of Embu room in another court. We must set standards in the way we are dealing with issues of impeachment in this House. I want to be on record.

Order, Sen. Mong’are. You can be on record through your contribution. That is your entitlement but I think the way you are moving, you may not only be on record but you may be out of the House for that record to be entered.

Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order! I have not allowed on the second intervention. That is your own interpretation. There are differing interpretations in this House but unfortunately for you, the Speaker has the final word. That is something you may wish to live with. On this one, I am convinced. It is not just a matter of finality but a proper reading of the law.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the formation of this particular Committee. Before I debate it, allow me to use this opportunity to send my sympathies to members of the family and friends of the Speaker of the County Assembly of Embu and regret that up to now, I have not been able to visit him at the hospital, not because of my own choice but because my lawyer of many years of standing advised me that having chaired that Committee, if I were to go there, it is possible to give an impression that there was an element of connivance between the Chair of the Committee that led to the impeachment of Wambora and the Speaker who led the County Assembly. Having said that, my fear is that we might be witnessing a response from the merchants of corruption against the Speaker of the County Assembly of Embu. Since we are talking about public resources, we would like the merchants of corruption to know that we have no other home. Our home is called Kenya. In fact, some of us only got a passport after we became professionals. The children of some of those merchants have passports immediately they hit 18 years old. Some of them travel on their parents passports even before they hit 18 years old. They should give us a break because we want to put our house in order and our house is Kenya. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to repeat and regurgitate a message he has already given in a political rally last week in a baraza and waste the precious time of this Senate by diverting us from the core objects of today to discuss about Anglo Leasing and Kshs1.4 billion? Is he in order to say that the President of Kenya stood by a road, which he has not named and declared that money should be paid?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think the Senate Leader of Majority is out of order because what is being raised are issues that concern the people he represents here. The same thieves who were paid Kshs1.4 billion are now asking for Kshs3.1 billion. So, what is being said here is that those who have given those instructions, whether they live in heaven, in the sky or inside the water, they must face the law and the law is the Constitution. Is he in order to protect an individual who is a Kenyan who is supposed to protect the Constitution which he is dismantling?

On a point of order, Sen. Lesuuda. Is it in order for the hon. Senator to introduce new matters? If I followed your ruling earlier on, you said that we should stick to the Motion. I can see that our colleagues on the other side are very keen to introduce other matters when they reach the conclusion. Are they in order? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I really respect the Leader of Majority but I thought he would be the last person to take us 20 years back. When Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was talking about the Attorney-General, he was quiet, when he was talking about Anne Waiguru, he was quiet but as soon as the name “President” came in, he stood up and he did not say which President. He just assumed it is the President of the Republic of Kenya. There were people in the Eighth Parliament whom if you stood up and mentioned the word President, they would stand up and think that you have committed an act of treason. Is he in order to take us to this dark past where mentioning the word “President” will be like missing a meal for a week?

We are going to have the last brief interventions from Sen. Wamatangi, Sen. Mugo and finally the Senate Majority Leader.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Senator for Kakamega, this being a House of records and being a House that debates above board, we do not speculate in this House---

He has the right to say anything he may want to say as long as it is something he can stand by. He said clearly that the President gave instructions on phone, but he was not there to hear that telephone call and he cannot substantiate that. So, it is not right for him to make those kinds of allegations in a House that is dignified. He is out of order.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You cannot rise on a point of order; there is nobody on the Floor. What is it, Sen. Beth Mugo?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Senators from that side to mislead the public about the payment of Kshs1.4 billion and to utter things they cannot prove and have no proof, other than what was in the newspapers, yet this House does not follow newspaper articles? Is it in order for a House that makes laws to insinuate that when a court of law in another land gives orders, that a country cannot follow, yet we claim that we follow the rule of law? Do we follow the rule of the jungle, or are we going to respect courts, especially even when the Constitution is very clear about international laws? Is it in order? Can we stop this---?

Order, Sen. Mugo!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Very briefly, I want to say that all I said is that there is the business that has brought us here today. At no time, as my Senior learned friend, Senator Orengo, would want to purport, have I said that you cannot discuss Anglo Leasing or Kshs1.4 billion. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, all I have said is that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale mentioned a roadside declaration which I am not aware of. I said that he has not told us the road by which the President stood – whichever President it was – to give a declaration about The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Order!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

But neither will you take advantage of this airtime to also do your politics!

Order, Senators! I am afraid that on this one, I will have to agree with the Senate Majority Leader.

The restriction is here provided in paragraph eight of my communication. We were so elaborate because we knew that these temptations will be there. I said and I quote:- “I wish to emphasize to all Hon. Senators, as I have done before, that debate on the Motion shall be limited to the substance of the Motion, namely; whether to establish a special Committee consisting of the Senators listed to investigate the proposed removal from office of the Governor of Kericho County. It is not a Motion on the propriety, prudence or even constitutionality or legality of the processes that have preceded the submission of this matter to the Senate. It is not a debate of the facts of the matter or its merits. It is therefore not permissible, and I will not hesitate to immediately rule a Senator to be out of order if she or he digresses into any matters other than the Motion before the House.” If all of us can restrict ourselves to that for now, but making inferences on the basis of whether you can impeach; in fact, the Senate Majority Leader was very clear that even the President is very impeachable. So, he is not discounting that, but we are saying that this is a special sitting for a special Motion, and the Motion is the formation of a special Committee in the matter of removing from office by impeachment the Governor of Kericho County. So, let us restrict our arguments to that. Of course, the only problem is that I will not demand an apology from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale because all of you are guilty as charged from what you have actually demonstrated – and I think Sen. Orengo has cautioned us properly so. You know, this is the 21st Century and if you do not come to this Parliament with the ideas on how you want to take this country to the next level, you have no business being here!

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On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Muthama?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my colleague, the Chief Whip, Sen. Elachi, walked in when you were on your feet giving a very serious ruling; and she walked in majestically without bowing and waiting to be cleared by you!

Order! Order! Sen. Elachi, did you do so?

Order! Now it is getting even worse!

I know Sen. Murkomen is a lawyer, but he is not yet a lawyer for this purpose!

So, go back and do the needful, Sen. Elachi!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

We are dealing with a stranger; so, let us---

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I go back to my debate. It has come to my notice – and that of many Senators who sit here throughout – that there are three Members of this Senate who do not seem to have come to terms with the weight of the position of the Speaker as the Chair of this House. The casual way that these three Senators – who I do not wish to name because we are in full view of the Republic – it is important that they should go and rethink, even if they are your friends or even if they come from the same political persuasion with you by way of parties---

Order! Order, all of you! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is on a point of order. Let us hear him. Once again, I will defend the right of every Senator to be heard; trust me on that one! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when some of us see the casual manner in which you are approached by these three Senators, we either feel that they are special, or that they do not understand the weight of the House that they call Senate. Therefore---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I think you are also becoming irrelevant.

The only Senators who have approached me are actually two; one from your side and one from the other side; and you are talking of three. The two Senators did not approach me in any disrespectful manner.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you heard me clearly – and I am very serious---

And they were all on issues dealing with the business of this House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My reference---

Do not speak for me; I think I have the capacity to do it for myself!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my reference is not for today; my reference is to what we have observed over time; but let that one rest.

Then you are completely even more irrelevant on your own admission that it has nothing to do with today! Today is a special sitting; so, do not bring other issues.

Proceed with your contribution.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The only point that I think, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale would have wished, if I were to represent him the way he purports to represent me, is that, you know, there are some basic things called honesty. A Senator cannot come here and tell me she does not know how she entered the Chamber. So, it is just important to just own up when you are caught; it is the only honorable thing to do. So, let us not play these extras, including people offering their legal services---

I want to warn Sen. Murkomen that your legal services, I am sure, are needed elsewhere and not on the Floor of the House. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of this Committee – having sat in the other Committee – I would like to give my special thanks to the Office of the Clerk. The Office of the Clerk, sometimes in our previous sittings, was sitting beyond 18 hours in a day to have our work done. I hope that the Clerk is going to move with the same spirit and now that we have put the rules of procedure, they will find it slightly easier to proceed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, given that this is the second time this kind of Motion is coming before us, I hope that the way we will proceed will give Governors and courts a reason to find confidence in this particular House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am delighted to note that I have keenly kept my eyes wide and my ears open; I have not heard that in this particular case of Kericho, the Governor is trying to side step the constitutional provision through which this matter is supposed to be settled. I think this is an area we should give credit, whatever the finding will be by this particular Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to finish by bringing to the attention of Members a remark that was made in a workshop I believe by one of the presenters on accountability of institutions, which I forgot; and you were in that workshop. The presenter said that corruption is not a devolved function.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, under the Sixth Schedule, the functions that are devolved are clearly delineated and, therefore, if we do not stand firm, then we are going to teach the new governments – 47 of them – the bad manners of the national Government, which is the custodian of all the corruption that we have in this country. We would like it to remain there so that we do not waste time dealing with corruption at the county governments when we want to save that time for dealing with corruption with the national Government. I beg to support, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you. I also stand to support this Motion. I would also like to appreciate the composition of the Members of this Senate that have been set aside to go and investigate the proposed removal from office of the Governor of Kericho County; and further as indicated here:- “to report to the Senate within ten (10) days of its appointment on whether it finds the particulars of the allegations to have been substantiated.” So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, whatever has been tabled, coming from the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) of Kericho, are just allegations. It is our duty, as the Senate, to dispense justice; and as indicated in the County Governments Act, we must be diligent and do it within the days that have been shown here – ten days. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Sang?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo in order, instead of discussing the Motion before this House, to discuss the conduct of some MCAs, when we do not know who they are and yet you have given this ruling over and over in this sitting? Is he in order?

He is completely out of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying that we are discussing this Motion because MCAs of a county called Kericho brought this issue here. But I was using this opportunity to also send a signal outside---

Order! Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo! I have repeated that; in fact, I was very clear that you should not discuss things that preceded before the Motion came to the Floor. So, it is the things that you are saying that are out of order. If you do not have anything to say, you can conclude. What is it, Sen. Muthama?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this debate is becoming next to impossible because you cannot debate without giving illustrations on certain things, otherwise the debate will be too dry. If that is the way we are going, let us just say the names are in front of us; we have read them, we just approve them and go!

In fact, that is the point of the debate! That is the Motion!

So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the 10 or 15 minutes that someone stands here to debate, will I be in order to say that it should be extremely difficult just to say “his The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Muthama! Speak for yourself! If you have such difficulties, the contributors who have gone ahead of you have been contributing very well. It is just one or two people; those ones who are sending signals. We are just saying that this is not a place to send signals!

Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am finding the distinguished Senator in a lot of difficulties, because he is not saying that he is saying anything. He is just saying that he is sending a signal! I think a signal sometimes can be appropriate, especially when you are forgotten!

Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you can see the situation I am in. What I am trying to say is that it is essential that we also mention that we do not know how many are maliciously planning to bring some impeachments which may not be based on anything. So, it is important to mention so that the---

Will it help you, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, to know that when the Committee has now considered the matter, because the Committee is going to look into the allegations and substantiate them, then they will bring them to you? Then that is the time you will have realized the kind of allegations that were being brought and you can even try to infer the possible reasons why that allegation may have been brought and you fail to substantiate. That will be perfectly in order. So, you will have another opportunity. It is that this is not the opportunity.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senator for West “P” is stating in the Senate and he wants---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Which county is that one

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is West Pokot. He is stating on the Floor of this House and he wants it to be part of our record, that our Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) proceed maliciously. Is he in order to impute such bad motives against our MCAs? Could he withdraw and apologize for that very bad remark against the MCAs? If he wants he can substantiate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is now putting words in my mouth. I said that some of them and we cannot rule out that because it is only the Committee that will exonerate them.

Order. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I thought you would seek refuge in my declaration of you out of order. So that matter should not be entertained any further.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will conclude by saying that I support the formation of this Committee and I also send my sympathies to the people of Embu with regard to the scenario that unfolded. I would like to say that the process that the Senate and the County Assemblies are doing is not meant to harm anybody at all. All of us must support this process. I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. First, I would like to congratulate the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader for proposing to establish such an able Committee. The men and women who have been proposed in this list are able and competent. They are professionals and I believe that they will carry the day for this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we have in many days requested, such committees must rise above reproach and they must be like Caesar’s wife. I thought Sen. Murkomen was standing on a point of order, but he cannot intimidate me. As I was speaking on this issue, I wanted to make some two comments. The one I---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. Ong’era, even though she could have missed me for long, to try to infer that I was intimidating her by looking at her? How does intimidating look like?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. Murkomen to continuously stare at Sen. Ong’era with a very mischievous smile? I have been---

Order Sen. Wetangula! You know you are the cause of all these altercation because you are the one who incited Sen. Ong’era and Sen. Ong’era in trying to affirm her position which is harmless, because there is no Senator who has the capacity to intimidate another one and that is a statement of fact. In the process, Sen. Murkomen seemed to have gained more strength to actually rise on a point of order which he had not done and then Sen. Wetangula again comes and says that Sen. Murkomen was staring with a smile whereas nobody can stare with a smile. Staring is using one organ known as the eyes and smiling is the mouth. So, let us stop it there. Proceed, Sen. Ong’era!

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for coming to my aid. I would like to advise this Committee that there is no big or small corruption and that there is no big or small misuse of the law. We must note that if a Governor is going to steal a chicken and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Ong’era. That matter has been dispensed with. This Motion is narrow and there is nothing stopping you from coming up with a Motion on your favourite topic. For now, just deal with the matter before the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand guided. I was advising the Committee that the threshold for corruption is the same and therefore, ---

(Hon. Ethuro) But that matter is not before the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand guided by your ruling. I would like this Committee to come with a report that will put this House where we want to go. This is a House which is the guardian of devolution. We cannot speak about this issue without looking at other issues, for example, coming up with legislation that sets a threshold with which we look at how a Governor has behaved and another official in the national Government has behaved. Therefore, it behooves this Senate to come up with legislation or amendments to legislations that can set a threshold with which we can debate these matters. I would like to assure our brothers in the Jubilee Coalition Government---, until the issue of Kshs1.6 billion is clarified to us. I support.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have been quiet and I want to start by saying that when I heard that the Speaker of the Embu County Assembly had been kidnapped and was lost, for the first time, I got frightened for my own safety because I believed that it is very unsafe to travel alone because somebody could very well just grab you and put you in their boot and deposit you wherever they want. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when it came to light that this particular Speaker had asked for security from the Government and that the Government ignored him even after he wrote several letters, then it shows that sometimes we ignore things which eventually can embarrass the State because it is bad enough that he was kidnapped and dumped or hidden somewhere and he has been dumped back. What if he had died? This would have been a terrible scar for the Government of the Republic of Kenya for failing to protect its own citizens. However, a bad story has ended well and I want to thank whoever it was that did this for bringing him back alive. He would have brought us so much trouble for no reason. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me now come back to Kericho County and say the following. We are actually debating here and setting up a committee to investigate allegations which we do not know about other than what we have read in the press. I do not want to go back to the ruling of the Chair but I would have been happier if I knew what it is that we are giving this Committee to go and deal with so that as they deal with it, if I have an interest in any matter, any one charge or I have information, I could go there and give it. But a ruling has been made and I hope the Committee will take the charges and deal with them. Looking at the Committee as formed, I can see all the sectors of this House inside; I can see the youth, experience, gender, different professions and the face of Kenya. So when a decision is finally made by the Committee, it will not be because it was my tribe The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo was ruled to be out of order for sending one signal only. Sen. Kajwang has sent out several signals in different directions to governors, MCAs and procurement officers. Is he in order?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not sent any signal to anybody.

Lastly, let me say that I have also heard that governors are now complaining that when we do our job, we expose them to blackmail, harassment and all sorts of things by the MCAs; that they must take MCAs to Singapore, China and America with our money. We will deal with that later because we must make sure that we pass some statutes that will protect our money from being used to visit Bangladesh and such other places for no good reason other than to tour around. It is important for me to say this, that the charges must be grounded on two serious things. I hope the Committee will look at this. The charges are a serious breach of the law and a violation to the Constitution. That is what the Constitution talks about. Of course, other grounds such as gross misconduct are sometimes difficult to define. But the courts have now narrowed it down to something we can look at. But the Committee should make sure that they are satisfied that the Governor of Kericho County breached the law substantively or violated the Constitution. If the Committee is not satisfied, they should come here and tell us: “We were not satisfied.” We will agree with you. But if the Committee is satisfied, come here and tell us: “We were satisfied on this and on this basis.” The country is listening. If we make a ruling that looks like we are biased or it is a turf war or we want to discipline governors or nyoa them, we might be told that we are irrelevant. But we must protect this House; that when we act, we do so with fidelity to the law and national interest. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. My conscience is very clear that we are moving in the right direction because if you consider Standing Order No.68(1)(a) as read together with Standing Order No.68(1)(b), we are within our mandate to constitute this Committee. The 11 names that have been proposed have got the skills, experience, discipline and qualifications to objectively execute the mandate that is before them. Elsewhere, the Senate has been accused of impeaching governors. I find this very ridiculous because this Senate does not impeach governors. Governors are impeached by their own county assembly MCAs. The Senate only executes its constitutional mandate when the matter of impeachment is brought before it and to interrogate the charges brought against the governor and to sustain or exonerate the governor. I want to state that collectively as a Senate and individually as Senators, we have nothing against governors. As a matter of fact, when you look at any committee that is constituted like in this case, only one Senator comes from that county. So, for people, especially in the Press to accuse the Senate of fighting political battles by impeaching The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. Our constitutional responsibility includes impeachment. It is something we cannot run away from, it is a responsibility that we have to take. As the Senate, we have taken this responsibility seriously. We also want to have the public understand what this role really entails. It is about protecting counties to ensure that they are able to reap the fruits of devolution. When the public blames us for impeachment without realizing that this is a process that starts from the MCAs who are closer to their counties and the goings on in those counties--- A total of 32 MCAs from Kericho County Assembly all voted for the impeachment of the Governor of Kericho County and the charges were presented to the Senate. You have made it very clear that these charges are availed to us in the documents that we can pick, so that we can actually go through those charges. It is important for us, as the Senate, to make sure that we look at those charges and in that Special Committee, the Governor should present himself before the Committee to defend himself from those charges so that those charges are substantiated. If the Committee finds those charges substantiated, the Senate will then impeach the governor. It is, therefore, important for governors, when knowing they are facing specific charges, to have ways, means and evidence of finding out how to use that opportunity to make a case for themselves and to show that their hands are clean. From the Senate The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Yes, Sen. Murkomen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First of all, I would like to start by saying that I support the Motion. I would like to congratulate those whose names have been enlisted in this Motion to perform this every onerous, difficult and very honourable task. I had the privilege and honour to serve in the first Committee of this House that looked into the matter of Embu. This is not an easy task and as Sen. Khalwale said, we benefited immensely from the support of the Clerk’s Office and the legal teams who worked meticulously to ensure that this House assists us to make a Report that can set a proper precedence. My advice to our Members is that they should hit the road running. You will not sleep when the hearings start because of the time, energy and the processes. I am proud to say that this House, if it goes by what it did during the Governor of Embu situation, then we will serve justice to the Governor of Kericho. There have been misconceptions on whether – I have heard Members of this House going public and saying that there is deficiency of law in the impeachment of Governors. Nothing can be further far from the truth. I want to speak as a person who served in the taskforce on devolved Governments. This was a copy of Article 145 of the Constitution; word by word. Article 145 is about the impeachment of the President. As a lawyer and a former law lecturer, I am worried about the caliber of judges that we have in the country who are giving orders against plain reading of provisions of the law. If you read Article 145, you will see that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am so much concerned about the reference the Senator has made to me. I hope that he is not giving somebody an idea; lo and behold!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I like giving examples about my mentor. If he disappears, that will be very serious. I was saying that for that reason, this House needs to pronounce itself properly on this matter. We were told that JM Kariuki disappeared and somebody else told the House that he was in Zambia having fun. However, he was found dead in Ngong. We were told that Ouko had travelled from somewhere in Koru to co-host a function in Gambia as a Minister for Foreign Affairs, however, his remains were found in Got Alila. We cannot allow a situation where a public officer or any citizen of this country is allowed to disappear like that, for whatever reason. That issue must be taken up by this House. I believe that your office can lead this House to ensure that this Senate addresses that matter substantively at a given time. Finally, I want to give a message, clearly, to the Governor of Kericho. If you are innocent, you have nothing to fear. You have already shown humility and we support you for deciding that you will not run to the courts. We want to support him for what he has done right. If he is innocent, of course, we have to make a decision. We have to do what we must do, however, painful it is. That is the position of the law. For all those reasons, I stand to say that I support counties. I am not one of the people who bash county assemblies. County Assemblies have done their job. Any Senator who will be quoted by the press bashing any County Assembly Member for performing a function over which we have an appellate jurisdiction; telling them that they are a lynch mob will not be correct. We have a second chance to correct the decisions they will have made.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet to say what he has just said when I have seen him on television with his colleagues bashing Members of County Assemblies (MCAs)?

He is in order because he was talking about any Senator. He did not excuse himself. Maybe this is his Damascus point.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For the record, I have never, ever bashed Members of County Assemblies. I have always given them, as the Chair of Devolution, advice so that any time they exercise a certain function, they ensure that it is not used for intimidation, blackmail, or so forth. However, I have never told them that it is wrong for them to use an oversight function to impeach any person who has violated the law. My responsibility as the Chair of Devolution Committee is to give advisory services to the county governments. We tell them, county assembles, continue doing what you are doing but do not use it for intimidation or blackmail.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Would I be in order to call the Mover to reply? The issues being articulated are the same.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not have a problem with what hon. Keter has said. However, coming as a person who comes from Kericho, could he be having a personal interest on this matter? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the sake of clarity, I have no personal interest.

Order, Sen. Keter. Do not feel any compulsion, to any Senator, to respond to issues that the Speaker has not declared that you should respond. I made it clear, earlier in the day, that Sen. Janet Ong’era had made a statement of facts and should not be intimidated. Therefore, neither should you be intimidated by the Senator from Homa Bay County. The matter you raised has nothing to do with you declaring interests. That was a matter of closure of debate. What interest is there, Sen. Kajwang? In fact, from my own observation, there was no other Senator who was interested in contributing. So, Sen. Keter was just being more than enthusiastic to inform the Speaker that there is no other Senator interested in contributing. I will put the question. This is Motion affecting counties. I will call upon the Mover to reply, then we go to roll call voting.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, seeing the mood of the House, I beg to move.

Ring the division bell for eight minutes; then we will go to roll call voting.

Order, Senators! The eight minutes are over. Close the door and draw the bar. The following are the names of the Tellers: For Ayes, Sen. Murkomen and for the Noes, Sen. Kanainza. We shall now proceed with the voting.

Sen. Murkomen.

Sen. Kanainza.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows. First, we have disallowed one vote---

What?

Just leave it there. So, the results are as follows:-

Hon. Senators, now that brings us to the close of our business. The House, therefore, stands adjourned until 3rd June, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.22 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.