Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a Statement in response to a request raised by Sen. Kembi-Gitura of Murang’a in respect to safety along the Nairobi-Thika Superhiway. I notice that Sen. Kembi-Gitura is not around and I wanted your guidance on what I should do.

The Deputy Speaker is away on official business but I do recall that he had actually added you more time to respond to that Statement. I think we agreed next week, and I think he will be back. So, we do it next Tuesday.

Thank you for that guidance, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Do we have any other Statement? Next Order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill be read a Second Time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Bill is meant to strengthen the legal arrangements that exist with regard to the control, licensing and operations of people who sell liquor and those who consume it. The major motivation of the introduction of this Bill is twofold: First, the fact that the issue of licensing of liquor now under the new Constitution is a function that falls within the powers of County Governments in accordance to the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. That notwithstanding, certain issues will still remain at the national Government and it continues to retain its own agency – the National Campaign Against Drugs and Alcohol (NACADA) which deals with drug abuse and so on. The issue of licensing of liquor particularly remains a function of County Governments. The issue of control mainly and broadly speaking from a policy perspective remains a matter that is within the national Government. If you look at the Fourth Schedule, what is going to the county governments is licensing of liquor. Therefore, this Bill wants to strengthen devolution by recognizing that counties have functions that have to do with control of alcohol and liquor and at the same time giving counties abroad legislative framework through which to operate and subject in accordance with the Constitution to county specific liquor laws which have already been passed and others are in the process of being passed. Secondly, this Bill has brought in a number of proposed amendments to the existing national legislation on the subject matter but based on the experience so far with regard to control of alcoholic drinks, there is need, therefore, to bring that experience to bear into the legislative framework to protect the public and also protect those who sell liquor as a business; to protect them so that they can be legitimately provided for under the law to do their business. On the other hand, to make sure that unscrupulous people do not brew chemicals that cause death to the public because, again, any business that one conducts must be the one that helps that person to recoup their investments while guaranteeing certain general public safety and public order ideals such as public health. These are the two underlying motivations upon which this Bill has been brought. Since this Bill will go to experts after it has been moved and seconded, perhaps the Committee will to enrich it, make it better and ensure that everyone is carried on board; those who trade in liquor, those who consume it, the separation and respect for the functions of national governments vis-à-vis those of county governments. All these balances must be brought to bear and I hope that as this Bill comes before this House, both in the Plenary and at the Committee Stage, it can only be made richer and better. Time will not allow me to discuss each and every clause because it is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sure that the Senate Majority Leader was not referring to my character when he referred to “some Senator who is prolific in matters alcohol.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Bill because this is a very practical Bill. It is my father, who died many years ago, who told me that there are three things in life which you cannot take away from a man. Unfortunately, I can remember only two; I have forgotten the third one. The first one is that men like alcohol. Secondly, he said that men like meat. I have forgotten the third one. When I asked him why, he told me that it is because alcohol is universal. Alcohol is business, jobs and leisure. This being the case, legislation about alcohol should be as well thought out as possible. That is why I want to congratulate the Senate Majority Leader for bringing this amendment. This is because when this matter came to the last Parliament, and you were there, we did a very good job. But the rules and regulations that came and accompanied it, made it so archaic that it killed the jobs and made being alive almost criminal. It is usually very easy for us – people The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The assertion of my brother and very senior Senator, Dr. Khalwale, that politicians who do not drink are, in a sense, mad, is really going to have a bad impact in terms of thoughts about the politicians. Could he substantiate or withdraw, because that statement is very appalling for the legislature? Is he in order really to insinuate that the Senators or Members of the National Assembly who do not drink are in a sense mad or likely to go mad? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

You have redeemed yourself by using the word “insinuate” or less before you were claiming that he had asserted, which he had not.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While I appreciate the good work that Sen. Khalwale is doing to second my Bill, which is so rare--- It is so rare that Sen. Khalwale would speak well of some of the things that I bring in this House, by virtue of where he sits. But is he in order to also suggest that our forces, which are called “disciplined” forces, should drink alcohol from morning to midnight ceaselessly? In fact, it is a contradiction. So, by saying that they should be allowed to drink anytime and do whatever they want, is a misrepresentation or contradiction of even the term “Disciplined Forces.” Is he in order?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the House to bear with me.

Order! Order, Sen. Khalwale! Let us give a chance to Sen. Muthama!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think that I will be in order to say that the Mover himself never said anything bad about drinking. He is supporting what he said, but we all know that drinking alcohol is not good. It is only that we cannot stop the manufacture of alcohol. Is he in order for him to shift and say that what he has proposed to be good is not good?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, so that my time does not go, I think that we can allow Members to comment on some of the points that I am making during their contribution. It is my opinion.

Let us hear the last one from Sen. Mutahi Kagwe!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was a little bit at a loss and, perhaps, need your guidance on this one. Is it in order for a Mover and Seconder of a Bill to be operating on completely opposite sides? I would imagine that the person seconding the Bill is actually called a “seconder,” as Sen. Boni Khalwale would say. Under what circumstances then does the Mover and the seconder contract each other? I thought that you second to agree. When you second to disagree, is the Bill still on?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am quite alive to those facts. That is why I am saying that if you were to bear with me regarding some of the comments that I am making, you can react to them during your contribution. I am supporting this Bill, because it is important that we control alcohol in this country. But in the process of controlling alcohol, we should also not be unreasonable. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying – and if the Senate Majority Leader cares to listen to me, because I am responding to his point of order – that members of the Disciplined Forces do not drink alcohol for 24 hours, seven days a week. My elder brother is a Captain of the Air Force. My other brother was a senior officer in the police and I have lived in these messes and know how they operate. We would be insulting our brothers and sisters who work in the Disciplined Forces to assume that they are drunkards and, therefore, have to regulate them through legislation. They have got their own code of conduct and out of that discipline, live within it and have served us well. Let us not go there. Mr. Speaker, Sir, similarly, in the National Assembly – and with all due respect to the Deputy Minority Leader – I did not mean that those who do not take alcohol and are in politics are mad. I was saying that you run the risk of not having an outlet for the tension that you go The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is misleading this House that Alcoblow does not proof beyond reasonable doubt the alcoholic content in one who has taken alcohol. Is he in order to mislead this House that the gadgets used on the roads are not scientific?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not in any way speak in the absolute but I am also encouraged by the realization that my colleague Senator is a layman in science. So, he does not know these things.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to support and thank the Mover of the Motion. We are going to take this particular legislation very seriously and work on this---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator for Kakamega in order to mislead the House that I am a layman in science? I am a student of law who graduated with an honours degree. I have done medical jurisprudence in my studies, whereby I have a brief in all these information that I am talking about.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Would it be in order for me to ask my colleague to elaborate the distinction between legal jurisprudence and medical jurisprudence for purposes of the record of this House?

Mr. Speaker, Sir--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! Communication is through the Chair and what you have been asked, you do not have to respond. First, when you were telling Sen (Dr.) Khalwale, what you said, you did not prove otherwise and so Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale went forward to ask you for proof. Secondly, you attempted to prove your knowledge but I am equally convinced that that is not sufficient enough to prove as acquitting your basis. So, let us just leave it there. That is not a statement on any discipline and that is why all disciplines are represented here. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am concluding by sending my deepest sympathies to all those who perished because of the unscrupulous people who put poison in alcohol so as to outsmart others in business in various parts of the country. I would like it to be on record that I will do everything possible to scrutinize every clause to see to it that the clause is friendly to those who do not take alcohol, it is friendly to those who take alcohol and to ensure that the culture of co-existence exists in this country. What I mean by this is that there tends to be sometimes when you are in one corner and you are being looked at as a sinner if you partake of alcohol. With those many words, I second.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I actually stand to oppose this Bill. I oppose for a number of reasons. In as much as the originator of this Bill called it the Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill, if I was the originator, I would have called it the Alcohol Ban Bill. I want to also tell my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that there are many things to thank him for including spiritual guidance and we will discuss them. This is a country of faith, a country that does not have to entirely rely on alcohol proceeds to make it grow. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in recent times, we have witnessed serious loss of lives to the tune of hundreds. The recent ones amongst them were reported in central and parts of eastern Kenya. In fact – in my own thinking – why people turn to the alcoholic drinks that are laced with poisonous substances is mainly because even the alcohol that is brewed or said to be brewed in factories becomes an encouragement to engage in partaking illegal alcoholic drinks. It does not act as a deterrent to stop people from taking alcohol. People only talk about taking alcohol in excess as being a bad thing but in my own thinking, even in a small way, it is an intoxicant. I do not want to be mistaken just because I am talking about alcohol, but this also includes miraa which is an intoxicant. Those who advocate for the chewing of miraa do not honestly come out and tell us the harmful effects.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Senator who is on the Floor, but I support this Bill because it is amending an Act of Parliament that already exists. We are not here to argue whether to allow people to drink or not to drink. If that is the case, then he should bring another Bill to bar alcoholic drinks. That would be a different debate and I do not think this is the place to moralize.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you do not have to narrow your thinking. We need to build up our base and build up our points and think deeply and expound on it rather than becoming very narrow. I said from the outset that this Bill is talking about control--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While I share a world view with my brother, Sen. Abdirahman, because both of us do not take alcohol, I want to support what Sen. Kajwang has said that this is a Bill to control the consumption of alcohol. It is not a Bill to decide whether or not people should drink. I am raising this point of order because of two things; one, I do not think it is in order in my view that Sen. Abdirahman tells us that we should not, for example, as the Bill says in Clause 33 limit the advertisements. In fact, they are helping him. What he is advocating is what we are trying to help. We are saying that do not advertise alcohol on television except after 10.00 p.m. Secondly is the whole idea of this thing being convoluting. He has brought in the issue of

which is also a very controversial issue and it is not right for him to mislead this House that miraa is alcoholic or even a drug. Recently, there was a report from the Ministry of Agriculture that states that miraa is a crop and another report that says that miraa is a tree. That does not bring in the bold moral issues that we hold personally. I want to go on record that I do not take alcohol and I do not support it, but the reality is that people drink alcohol. When we are watching television at home, I do not want to see an advertisement about beer.

Order! I think Sen. Kajwang raised a pertinent question on whether the contributor is relevant to the debate. First, I do not think we should gag him from expressing an opinion unless he persistently goes in a direction that is completely contrary to what is being debated. So far, I am satisfied that the Senator has been very relevant to the Bill. For some reason he wanted to express his opinion on another related matter which I just thought was an assertion and he was not going to debate it just like the Mover has even gone ahead to put this position also very clearly which was not called for. So, I think you should proceed. In fact, the spirit of the Bill itself is what Sen. Abdirahman is talking to because if you are talking about Clause 7 which I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale disagreed with while seconding, he is the final control to the extent of it being absolute banning which is one option of control. It may be excessive, but that is his view and he is entitled to it. Proceed.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for enlightening all of us on the fact that as we debate, we should not be limited to certain horizons only. We must think very broadly and in a manner that will help all of us understand issues in a better perspective. I want to say that excessive alcohol consumption may have a lot of impact on the lives of our own people. Even the economic well being of the households will be affected. People are growing poorer and families are continuing to divorce or separate, the work force has been affected and productivity has become less. To control is important, but if we could have actually a way to contain this kind of menace, then our country will perform better economically and we would become a healthier nation. We will be a more cohesive society. There are many other benefits which we will have actually got through either control or total ban of some of these intoxicants that have actually affected our people. It is true that factories that produce alcohol basically employ many people. In parts of the Rift Valley and the central region, people have lost assets. They have been selling land just like that and then drinking with the millions of shillings that they get. You can imagine how bad those families become. It is important that we legislate on issues that will actually benefit our people. Finally, we must engage religious leaders either inter-faith communities or through the leadership like this to address the serious problem of drunkenness that has bedeviled our society. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Bill and congratulate the Mover for having brought the Bill.

Having said that, the reason I am doing this is because I agree with some of the proposals in the Bill, because it is not a total ban on alcohol, rather it is a question of control. I come from a region that has been very badly affected by alcohol. When you go to Nyeri and many parts of central Kenya, you will find people as we speak right now who are lying on the streets who are drunk already. Some of them have not even been home since yesterday. We have gotten to a point where, in our county road works and farm works are no longer done by men but women. There was a television documentary the other day where they showed our women carrying

and forks and the men walking around drunk and saying that that the job was too hard. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not every man in Nyeri who is like that but it is sad to say that we have our fair share of drunkards; people who can no-longer work. This has impacted very negatively on the boy child. Since the father is not there, the boy becomes indisciplined; he also becomes a drunkard. So, this is a matter that is of great concern to us and we would like the issues as raised in this Motion to be implemented as quickly as possible. Of particular importance to us is the realization that alcohol is not expensive just because of the fact that it is sold by big companies. Alcohol is expensive because of the taxes that are related to it. A while back, the East African Breweries, through the Kenya Breweries produced a beer called Senate . That was a reasonably priced beer and a lot of people could afford it, but what happened is that the Government came in and imposed very high taxes on this beer and forced those who were drinking a decent and healthy beer to reverse to badly produced alcohol. While saying that, one of the amendments that we hope Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki will bring to this Bill is to say that if you produce an alcoholic drink that then results to the death of people, that alcoholic drink must be assumed to be a murder weapon. If you do not say that you will punish those who kill other people with alcohol or life imprisonment, what is to stop an individual tomorrow under the guise of producing alcohol from poisoning a whole lot of people? This matter is a bit more serious than we are taking it. The fact that people can die in Machakos, Embu, Kiambu and other parts of this country on the same day, what is to stop people from tomorrow taking a particular alcoholic drink to Nyeri County or Kisii County and poisoning the whole county? The only thing that can stop this is to amend this so that those who cause death by selling alcoholic beverages must be presumed to be murderers and causing murder. There is no other way of treating it but to bring such serious amendments – and we hope that Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki is listening to this. Unless we can bring amendments that are that serious, then we are wasting our time here. When an individual produces alcohol that is so bad that when people drink it, they actually go blind; only that they do not know that they are blind. They even proceed to say “even if you switch off the lights, we will continue drinking;” not realizing that they have gone blind---. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Kajwang.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to start with a story. In the former Russia – not the new one – which was controlled by Stalin, I think he said that the population was getting lazy and he needed people to work hard so that there could be self sufficiency in food production. He, therefore, outlawed alcohol. For a while, he thought that he had achieved something. But he looked at the statistics of crime in his office and was astounded that crime was increasing alarmingly – murder, rape and all those other bad things. He called his advisors and asked them why crime was increasing in almost every state. They told him “Your Excellency, you know we banned vodka.” He said “Oh, I see; so it is the ban of vodka that is making everybody angry and killing each other, stealing and doing all sorts of bad things?” So, he said “Brew the vodka.” So, vodka is still brewed and we buy it here. America at one time became very religious and, in fact, they banned alcohol in their own constitution. When the population became very religious, they went to a referendum and banned alcohol in their own constitution. Soon, there was a debate and then people were acting here and there; they were singing in praise of pro-vodka or pro alcohol songs, others were singing against it. The women mostly were singing against alcohol because the men were not coming home and they were not paying fees. So, after two years, the Americans went to another referendum and removed that clause; why? Because you cannot stop alcohol; you just cannot! So, let us, first of all, accept that if you are lucky to not drink, then you are lucky; but you cannot stop alcohol. During that time when America stopped alcohol, those who traded underground made billions of shillings, and that is how the Kennedy family became rich. If you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

I will allow it.

Yes, Sen. Wako?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my learned colleague is right in saying that there was a bit of an uproar. Actually, the magistrates misapplied the law and all it took was a proper explanation to the public on what the law is, so that the magistrates could correctly interpret the law. The law at that time is the same law as it is today. So, sometimes people tend to misinterpret the law and that creates a very bad precedent. So, our job is all the time to explain correctly and soberly in any given situation what the law is and what the facts are.

You are informed now!

Thank you very much. I am very much informed.

Even the reporters were misinformed because there was a very big article in The Sunday Nation saying: “Wako has brought an unconstitutional law which should be repealed immediately.” But nothing has happened because I upheld the constitutionality of that law, which is still there to date. By the way, it is an example to other countries dealing with drug trafficking. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have been informed, although my informer took a lot of my time. I hope I will preserve some of that time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish we could be sincere to ourselves because we really want to help this country. To be sincere to ourselves, we must do two things; we must remove traditional alcoholic drinks from the list of the whole definition of alcoholic drinks; I have seen it there in the definition at Section 3. Every country must have a traditional drink; every community must have a traditional drink and if you outlaw it or if you must take it to this authority to approve it so that I have to carry it in a pot and take it to the authority to approve it before you come and give it to your brothers in-law, then it will no longer be a traditional drink. I think we must separate the two things. Secondly, we are importing something called the licensing of importation of alcoholic drinks. This is giving too much authority to this authority that we are creating. What are we going to do? We are going to make some of these people billionaires by restricting importation of vodka or other alcoholic drinks, and giving licences when they feel like; and refusing to give licences when they feel like. These drinks are already good for the international market, so why are we giving somebody authority to licence their importation? At what points are they going to be licenced; is it when they are still at the port in Russia? Or are we going to licence them when they have already arrived in Mombasa? What if he refuses to licence it when you have already imported them? I think we are missing the point. We want to give too much power in the hands of one person or a few people who will, I think, abuse it and hurt our economy if we are not very careful. Now, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this thing called Senate Beer, which was being done by our friends; Kenya Breweries; in fact, they did it on consultation with the Government. The Government said “people are dying because they cannot afford whisky like we can; and they cannot afford the other beers. So, what do we do?” Kenya Breweries said “we will do a cheaper beer for the common man;” and they did the Senate Keg. What did we do when the Government came into power? They immediately imposed Value Added Tax (VAT) on this drink, and its price shot up to become almost the same as the other ones. The net effect was that all these people who were drinking keg and were very happy went down to drink these other alcoholic drinks, which we say are bad. That is how these deaths have arisen. So, the first thing we must do is to recommend the removal of VAT on the Senate Keg so that the industry that produces safe beer can continue to produce that safe beer for the people of that class. We should not be so elitist as to forget that we are not the same in our purchasing capacity. Some people can do 18 or 21 year old single malt; other people can only do busaa ! So, we must allow people in this country to enjoy whatever they want to enjoy at the cost at which they can afford. If you make it criminal for them, then they will go underground; but they will drink all the same as I had said earlier. Lastly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this registration of alcoholic drinks; I had already said that we should remove the traditional drinks from the list of alcoholic drinks. But if you insist that it must be registered, how are you going to register a beer that has been brewed by an old woman in my village for people to enjoy in the evening? In fact, our villagers know that Mrs. So-and-So is brewing beer, and by Friday, it will be ready. So, are you going to register it and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me, on the outset, to oppose this Bill. What we are looking at are the symptoms of the problems we have in this country. The problem of taking drugs in this country emanates from unemployment. These problems were not brought by the Jubilee Government. These are problems that we have been having since the KANU Government. The Jubilee Government is also adopting this. If the employment situation was to improve and our young men and women were to get jobs, then they would not have the idle time to drink. For instance, we were told that the Jubilee Government has created 700,000 jobs. I have not seen a list of the jobs they were talking about. We are supposed to be told the sectors where the jobs have been created. They should advertise any vacancies they have so that our youths and even those from my county can also apply. Youth who are idle should be told what to expect as they wait. Sometime ago, in 2012, an Act was enacted. We need to get findings of the existing Acts. Was the Act implemented to the letter? How far did it go? Is what we are seeking for in that Act so that we bring amendments? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have a Committee in this House which is supposed to engage the Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS). The KEBS should go deep into researching about the drinks which are being questioned so that when we come to the House, we debate from a point of research and information. This bureau consumes a lot of money. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to congratulate the Mover of this Bill and to say that it has come an appropriate time when a lot of bad incidences have taken place in our country. I would like to propose some amendments which will make the Bill meaningful and address the issues in our society. Alcoholism is a social problem. What am I saying? People can enjoy their drinks in social gatherings; however, they should not become abusive or kill themselves through drinking. If we have to legalise drinking, then we have to put in some measures. Taking of alcohol has its own consequences. It is good and bad at the same time. When you look at the Bill, you will see that it is out to address all these areas. The Bill tries to address the issue of the chemicals that youth on the street are inhaling. You cannot just bring some issues and leave out some. My amendment is that is it should address all the ills related to alcoholism so that it can accommodate and help the society to be disciplined. I remember very well, during the Nyayo era, that many army men, particularly in Rift Valley, helped many homes to reform and to live in harmony. Men had disappeared and were living in busaa clubs. Some would not dress properly and were walking almost naked. There is a former soldier, Kipchumba, who sang a song telling people to move away from busaa clubs and to go back to their homes. This is a societal problem. People need civic education; people need to be educated to understand that a drink can be harmful if you do not know how to manage it. I am calling for an amendment in terms of education so that people are made to understand the problems of drinking. As I support this Bill, I want to see it addressing the problems of the youth in our towns and cities. There is a menace in our towns. As early as 9.00 a.m, you will see young people with water bottles. I do not know what is in these bottles but you can see that these youth are incapable of controlling themselves. These are the issues that should be included in this Bill. Let us be accommodative and address all the ills of alcoholism in our society. With those few remarks, I support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to contribute to this Bill. For one, we should be honest. Alcohol has been with human beings since time immemorial. When Jesus was on the cross and suffering; one of the things they did to him was to put alcohol in this mouth. The assumption was that this would reduce the pain and make him a little more comfortable. That was not a very good idea at that point in time but nonetheless, it was done. There is a Latin saying; in vino veritas, which means, in wine lies the truth. So, I assume that when you have taken a little bit of wine, you relax and speak a lot of truth. People say that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill. I believe that the Senate Majority Leader must have come up with this Bill after seeing the frustrations that many Kenyans are going through, simply because of the many brews that are locally brewed or from other countries, which have made many of our youth desperate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the fact that each and every citizen of this country is from a particular society. In fact, I respect the fact that each community must have some ways of socializing, including ceremonies. For example, in my culture, the person whose son is being circumscised would make sure that his agemates join him for the ceremony. Good alcohol is brewed and they celebrate together but that is no longer the norm. Maybe our laws have been tightened or life is so expensive that the local brew is no longer produced they way it used to be. Maybe that is why we now have other brews which are ruining our youth and men. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I support this Bill, I am also touched that many of the laws which we come up with really go to strengthen corruption in some sections of the Government, particularly the police force. In fact, the more we come up with strict laws, the more the police officers celebrate, because they know that such laws will enable them make more money. The introduction of alco-blow is a good example. If you ask the police department, they will you tell you that it is one of their best stations, because they are making a lot of money. The same applies to the traffic department. Whenever they carry out a crackdown on unroadworthy vehicles, they take advantage of that to harass the ordinary Kenyans. Therefore, we need to review the issue of the alco-blow and if possible, do away with it. This is because many Kenyans are suffering. I know quite a number of very good bars and restaurants, especially in the suburbs which are no longer doing business, because the alco-blow roadblocks are mounted just on their doorsteps. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do believe that each and every county has some good raw materials to make local brews which can be controlled and certified by even the Kenya Bureau of Standards. We should think of manufacturing a local brew which can be accessed by the ordinary Kenyans without abusing it. Our fathers used to enjoy muratina, mutukuru and other forms of local brew. The Mover of the Bill also needs to think of the minimum age at which our youth can The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill and its intended amendments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just like Sen. Kajwang, allow me to begin with a story. When this Senate was busy discussing the Division of Revenue Bill, I was in Makueni burying 22 people who died out of a brew that is now famously known as the “countryman.” The effect of this brew was that as we sat in the podium and there were 22 caskets in front of us, there was another tent where the family members of these 22 people were seated. This tent, which was a 300 or 400-seater, demonstrated the effect of losing 22 people in one division to a brew called “countryman.” When I requested to see the bottle, I was amazed to see that this bottle was packaged in the same way as other famous drinks like Famous Grouse and others. It had a label together with a Kenya Bureau of Standards sticker. The multiplier effect of this drink and the effect that it caused in that division will be felt for a long time to come. It begs to say that although Mututho is famous for this Bill, it almost looks like we have had a public relations exercise for the last several days about what was the purposes of this Bill. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o that there should be a purpose. I think that we should promote consumer protection in an attempt to amend this Bill. Why do I say so? It is because this bottle of water that we are taking in the Senate is by law required to have the contents of what we are consuming. But when it comes to the alcohol that is sold to our people, such standards are not given. This is what I call double standards. We should insist in this Bill that if somebody is going to manufacture alcohol, then that alcohol must have similar contents. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the case of Makueni, after samples were taken, it was discovered that, in fact, countryman is 100 per cent methanol. We are concentrating so much on the person who is selling this alcohol and forgetting that the alcohol that was sold in Embu, Makueni and other parts of this Republic did not walk to those places. This alcohol was manufactured and distributed by somebody. When we lose two or three Kenyans to the effects of terrorism, we see the whole Government machinery, including the paramilitary coming into place. But when we lose 20 Kenyans who bothered to pay for something that they could consume, you do not see the same sort of force. In fact, in the case of Makueni, the Provincial Administration promised Kshs50,000 to all these victims, but they have never received that money. What would be wrong in prescribing a standard? The other day, we had a fine of Kshs20 million prescribed under the Media Bill, for persons who violate the law. Why can we not have a similar provision, saying that if you are found to have manufactured a drink which caused the death of a person, you will be fined Kshs20 million or so, as opposed to saying that it is a felony or misdemeanor that is punishable by law? That will make sense. Because then that makes sense. I say so because the persons who are manufacturing this are in the business of making profits. If you make a profit when a person has lost his life and family members have lost their loved one, then you are not entitled to do business and in short, in terms of damages, we should ourselves as a legislature not be shy to put punitive damages in this Bill so that as opposed to what Sen. Kajwang is saying, we do not want every Tom, Dick and Harry to manufacture alcohol. There is no problem in having five people provided they do this properly because if the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to also make my remarks in support of this Bill. On the outset, let us try to think why today there are so many people abusing alcohol unlike 20 to 30 years ago. It is unfortunate because as I talk today – that is why we have the control – alcoholic drinks are no longer consumed on particular occasions. Today, young people specifically of my age take drinking alcohol as a profession; they are drinking in the morning, at lunch time, in the evening and very early in the morning, the next day they wake up very early to resume alcohol consumption. There are various reasons why this is happening and I think all of us are aware. In so far as we are going to put the law in place to ensure that we control consumption of alcohol, there are some things that must be made very clear. One of them is the issue of youth unemployment. Today, a number of young people are not working anywhere. It all again falls on us because at the end of the day, the lives of the youth are a reflection of the leaders that are here today. It is my humble request that we should put these controls in place and ensure that we try as much as possible to create opportunities for the young people. Banning of alcohol may not be a solution at all. In fact, if you banned alcohol consumption today, you will be encouraging its consumption. Those who have been drinking once a week, for example, will start drinking twice because they will be looking for more and more in anticipation of the law banning its consumption. Consumption of alcohol has adverse effects and I do not want to mention all of them, but one is to do with its effects on the economy of this country. A number of those who are consuming a lot of alcohol are the young people and yet they are the same people who are supposed to work for this country, change this country and to make sure that we develop from one level to the other. We have a number of issues to be addressed in this country including insecurity. But if the job of these young people is just to drink alcohol, they will lose every good opportunity. All efforts are made towards getting money to buy alcohol. This will cause insecurity because they will rob people in order to get little money to buy alcohol. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, today in some parts of the country, our young ladies are no longer comfortable. They are now trying to move from one place to another to look for men to ensure that their lives move on. This is because men are no longer performing their core functions as provided for in the Bible to ensure that there is procreation and there is life. They cannot do it today because they are always drunk. The only thing they remember in the evening is to go and look for something small to buy alcohol. When they are drunk, they sleep until the following morning. I strongly believe in social change. Unless there is change at the individual level--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Have you heard the English that Sen. Melly is using here; “core function” which is not understood by very many people?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I mean is being a man, and I am sure you know your core function when you marry a lady; you should know your job. Unless there is social change in the lives of the people, we may not actually realize all these things even using the law. Even if we put all these control measures in place, we may not know exactly what is happening in other parts of the country which are inaccessible. The church must also play a key role here in ensuring that they teach the people the right behaviour regarding the use of alcohol. Rehabilitation centres should be established in every county, if possible. There should be regulation on television and radio broadcasts on alcoholic drinks, as stated in this Bill from 6.00 a.m., to 10.00 p.m. We should review all the licences to ensure that those suppliers who receive the licences meet all the requirements. Lastly, we should set laboratories in each county, if possible, so that we do not only rely on those ones which are already here. As Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has said, there are people in this country who we will never access unless we devolve some of the functions in each county. We should, for example, have laboratories in every county so that we can reach every corner of the county. With those few remarks, I support.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for also allowing me to air my views.

Sen. Karaba, you can use this microphone here or---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have this portable one here. We need to know what is happening to this august House; all machines are breaking down. I do not know what system we are supposed to adopt. This mobile microphone is also cumbersome. All the same, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to support the amendments as moved in the documents that we have here more so because I support the idea that people who are below 18 years should not take beer. This is something which, if not checked, will affect the educational standards in the country; it will lead to moral degradation which the Senator for Meru was talking about, and also, decay of our morals. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as we cite the history of beer drinking, in the older days when we were young, we could not be allowed to get nearer to the areas where old men were taking beer. We did not even know what kind of drink these men – and even women – were drinking. They were doing so only when it was necessary and at specific times; either during ceremonies or during rites of passage, and that was specified. There was no need of even having permits because they knew how to control themselves. But, today, what we see in the television are advertisements related to beer drinking, and this is double standards. You will find that the same Government which is telling us not to drink is encouraging us to drink by telling us that when you drink Pilsner, you will get power. So, what happens is that the young men will resort to drinking Pilsner in order to find out what this power is all about. We are also told that if you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What is it, Sen. Kajwang?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Sen. Kajwang, you will have to wait for the cordless microphone so that you are on record.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Karaba in order to suggest that if you produce, sell or even distribute molasses, sugar or any other ingredient – even millet – that may be used to make alcohol, then you are the culprit for the production of this alcohol that killed people? To suggest that would scare everybody who is in any other industry related to the production of alcohol.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is what it means. We must be selective. If those molasses are part of things which are used in producing these drinks, then we should curb what is not good for drinking. Most of the molasses is meant for livestock. That is what should selectively be done; but not the same product now producing alcohol. So, what is supposed to be alcohol is what I am saying should be prohibited. It should not be manufactured because it could be a killer brew. That is what is happening. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Sang.

Thank you

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to suggest that my brother did not listen to me very carefully. In fact, my second point was that while he was away, more than 90 people died of poison; I called it poison, because that is what it was. It was not a drink.

I am much obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am grateful that, that was said.

Sen. Kajwang, I heard you say “while he was away.”

Yes.

Who was this who was away? He was not a member of this House.

No, he has already mentioned who was away.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In my county of Nandi, whereas we may not have had some of these notable misfortunes in terms of loss of lives through these illicit brews, but it is an issue. We heard Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. mentioning a brew called

; in my county, we have a drink called Tostos, which has adversely affected families. Whatever Sen. Melly was talking about here is a real issue; that women have had to demonstrate demanding for their rights. This is a right that should not be limited by any other issue because you only need to be well, well fed and for you to perform.

But this is an issue that has been affected by the prevalence of illicit brews. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is one of the devolved functions and I think one of the greatest persuasion for me to support this Bill is the fact that the Bill seeks to recognize the role of county governments in licensing alcohol. I have interacted with a number of Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) in my county and they always raise the issue of illicit brews. They want the national Government to ensure that this issue is addressed. I always point out to them that this is a devolved function; that it is already their function and that they need to legislate for it in order to give parameters on how this is going to be done in our counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think as much as we do these amendments here, it is important for the various county assemblies in our country to take this issue seriously. I want to point out that the Nyeri County Governor assented to a similar Bill from the County Assembly of Nyeri. That is very important and I know that a number of county assemblies are already working on this. So, the recognition of the fact that county assemblies are already doing something or should pass legislation with regard to this issue is an important one. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, over the weekend, I was in a function in my county where the Executive Secretary of the Kenya Union of Post Primary Teachers (KUPPET) and various leaders of unions representing teachers in my county raised this particular issue. They raised the issue of alcoholism among teachers and they proposed to us that it should not be treated as just alcoholism, but it should be treated as a disease. I think if you look at this Bill, the establishment of a County Fund to deal with this issue and directing the amount of resources that will be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Bill. Before I move on, I would like to say that once you listen to the sentiments of many of my colleagues, you will get a feeling that the Committee that was supposed to look at the Bill after the First Reading should redo their work. It would be absolutely very unfair for Members to come and look at all these errors and yet the Bill was subjected to a Committee and was supposed to bring amendments. It is also important to note that the Mover of the Bill is trying to amend the National Assembly Bill of 2010 and to ensure that---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I do not want to interrupt my colleague. However, she mentioned something that needs to be corrected. We know that the Committee may have considered what we are dealing with here but may not have presented us with their Report. If the Committee has not done that, then most likely, this Bill has not been brought before them. Therefore, it would be misleading to say that what we are discussing here The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I may be wrong but I thought that after the First Reading, we commit a Bill to a Committee. However, we will be guided by the Clerks-at-the-Table on how it goes.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Regarding the procedural matter that has arisen between my two colleagues, after the First Reading, the Bill is subjected to a Committee. That follows as a matter of course. The Committee should have come here with some amendments and so on. The next Committee we will go into is the Committee of the Whole where we will expect Members to introduce amendments at that time. That is how it goes.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. That is what I was trying to explain. Thank you Senator for Homa Bay.

That is a procedural issue and it is important. After the First Reading, the Bill is committed to the relevant Senate Committee. The relevant Committee with regard to this was the Committee on Health. If the Committee, according to our Standing Orders, does not submit a Report within 30 days, then the Senate proceeds. We are sending a message to the relevant Committee. They had a responsibility to advise and work with the House with regard to this Bill at this stage. However, as Sen. Kajwang has said, that does not stop amendments being introduced via the Committee at the relevant stage once we go to the Committee Stage.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we thank the Mover for bringing a Bill that takes into account the County Governments. We are now helping the County Governments to deal with the challenges we are facing and issues of alcohol. The Mover is trying to amend the names in the Bill such as the Commissioner of Police to be the Inspector-General so that you put people who are responsible in terms of what is supposed to be done or to respond to questions wherever they are asked. We have to appreciate that the issue of alcohol in the country is a big challenge among our young people who can access cheap alcohol. They find themselves facing different challenges as they move on. I will give an example of an area within Nairobi County. You will find young people drunk very early in the morning in most areas around where touts at the ages of 13 and 14 man matatus stages. Why are they drunk in the morning? This is because they move with matatus for one or two squads and, therefore, have money to buy alcohol and to feel excited. After a few years later, these young people become old men and walk while shaking because of the influence of alcohol. They cannot even hold on to a cup when they want to drink anything. We must say, as leaders of this country, that yes, those who can control themselves while taking alcohol are there. However, at the same time, we must accept that we have a big challenge especially on those who live in slums and in rural areas who find themselves stressed. These ones believe that once they take one for the road, they will relief their stress as some of my colleagues were saying. There are different ways of releasing stress but the most common one is when they start taking alcohol. This has gone beyond a point where young people are using water bottles. You will find them in a bash called Yesu ni Bwana but whatever they are consuming contradicts what they are saying. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support the amendment Bill that is before the House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have had a law regulating alcohol since 2010, but it is unfortunate that people have continued to take illicit alcohol. As a result, there have been deaths and many people have gone blind. This alcohol has also had devastating effects on some men. Some of them are no longer productive in their families. Whenever you go to some police stations, you will be served by drunken police officers who are on duty. When you visit some offices, the watchmen are unable to open the gates because they are drunk. This is a big issue that the country is facing. Given the amendments that Members have proposed, we will be able to address some of these problems. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, chang’aa could mean “kill me quickly.” This is because whenever we watch news on television, we see people dying. Unfortunately, our young people have not addressed this issue seriously. When you ask a young person or student about the names of bars in town, he or she will tell you, but when you ask about a gallery, that is beneficial to his or her academics, that person does not know---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Article No.107(1)(c) of the Constitution and Standing Order No.18 to move that the Senate elects Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to preside over the Senate for the remainder of the sitting today.

Who is your Seconder?

seconded.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before you propose, since this may be amongst the first times that we are doing this, I think that it is important to lay the ground rules. One of them is: Does Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. fit to come and sit on that immense Chair of great power? I want to inform this House that I can think of no other person, currently present in this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I think that the Attorney-General Emeritus went a little ahead of the procedure. This is because, actually, you were going to propose. When you propose the question is when he would have said what he wanted to say. He mistook you to say that you were putting the question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that he is right. I think you should propose so that I can say what I said.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, now that the Attorney-General Emeritus has not stood up quickly, I support that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. gets this chance to sit on the Speaker’s Chair and moderates the debate for the remainder of the evening, because he has what it takes to control debate. I do not want to add anything more. I think that he suits the bill.

(Sen. Murkomen)

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was very wrong to disrupt me while I was speaking.

Order, Sen. Kanainza! What do you mean by saying that that was very wrong? Those are the rules of this House and the Standing Orders. Proceed!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the reason for engaging in consumption of alcohol by the youth is because of unemployment. We really do not need to continue crying about this issue because the young people have been encouraged to utilize the national funds that have been created for them. We really do not need to complain that unemployment is an issue that makes the youth to engage in alcohol consumption. We need to find a way of trying to solve it. The other reason is because of poverty. We really need to look into the other ways that can be used to improve the lives of the people. Rather than continuing to produce alcohol, we can think of how we can improve farming so that we can have enough food on the table. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I also stand to support this Bill. I happen to come from Kilifi County and this has really affected our people who consume Mnazi day and night. I am happy with the Jubilee Coalition Government which is now trying to provide employment to our people who are consuming a lot of alcohol. You can imagine how many hours we have sat in this Chamber this afternoon and none of us has thought of going to drink, but because there is unemployment in Kilifi County, they have engaged in drinking Mnazi. I am happy and I congratulate the Jubilee Coalition Government because they are really trying to provide jobs to our people. If the so called “Baba” can give us a break so that the Lamu Port and Lamu Southern Sudan-Ethiopia Transport Project (LAPPSET) and the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) projects can take off, we will control this consumption of alcohol once and for all. I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First of all, I wish to congratulate most sincerely the Senate Majority Leader for having brought this Bill. I am quite sure that the Bill has also been considered by the Committee on Health and we shall be looking forward to the recommendations. The issue of alcoholism has bedeviled us for quite some time. Alcohol in itself is not bad and we should be frank about that. The first miracle that was performed by our Lord Jesus Christ was to turn water into wine. In fact, it was at a wedding ceremony and they were taking wine which is alcohol.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I apologize for cutting short Sen. Wako, but I know he is such a refined speaker that he still retraces his steps. The reason I stood on a point of order is because Sen. Wako is misrepresenting to this House and to the public that Jesus made alcohol. Theologians and Bible historians tell us that the kind of wine that Jesus made in the Cana of Galilee was not alcoholic wine; it was actually some form of juice from grapes. Is he in order to misinterpret the holy Bible by saying that Jesus made psychotropic substances?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I really did not understand the point of order raised by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. As a matter of fact, wine is wine and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, he made such great wine that the people who were at the wedding said: “why have you waited until the very last moment to make the best wine?’ The same wine continues to be used in one of the important sacraments of the church. During the Last Supper, you go before a priest and pastor and he makes you drink wine. Actually that wine is a stronger wine than the one you would ordinarily get in shops. This same wine, the medics have told us that if you want to put the onset of a heart attack a few months away, you take one or two glasses of red wine and your arteries will be opened and the chances of you getting the heart attack will be postponed for a very short time. This same wine, the scientists have told us that the best wine for that type of thing is wine grown in Bordeaux area of France and now the Californian wine is competing with it. So, wine itself is good---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Whereas the Attorney-General Emeritus is prosecuting his argument eloquently, is he in order to appear to be advertising wine and the source of wine? Could he just go to the point because the objective of this Bill is to avoid the advertisement of wine during the day?

Sen. Wako?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was trying to make a point, and this is the right time to make that point. That point is that everything is good in moderation. The problem we are now dealing with is that most of us in this country do not do things in moderation, particularly when it comes to alcohol, we do not do it in moderation; we do it in a manner in which we endanger other people in society. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this problem, as you know, people have talked about it for long. I began looking at this problem – I think I can speak openly – when the son of the historian, Prof. Ogot, became an alcoholic. He was very brilliant at the university but he became an alcoholic. He has now just come out of it, but at a very old age. When I read the history of the son of Prof. Ogot – a brilliant son born in a great family and who had a great future – being spoilt by alcohol, it almost brought me to tears. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you read of women – in Murang’a, Kirinyaga and now I understand even in Rift Valley – demonstrating because of the effects of alcohol on their men folk, that is a danger. The issue of alcohol must be dealt with immediately. Of course, we thank hon. Mututho for having piloted this particular Bill through the National Assembly. Obviously, it now requires some amendments and that is why I am thanking the Senate Majority Leader for bringing these amendments. I would like to thank him because although it appears bulky, it is not all that bulky. Most of it is updating that particular Act of Parliament which was passed at a time when the Senate was not there and when the county governments were not there. This Bill, as brought by the Senate Majority Leader, is to update that Act. So, where it is mentioned “district”, they say “county.” so, we are in a sense updating the Act. But now, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the most important aspect that has been brought here are the various bodies and agencies that have been created to deal with this particular problem. I would like us to borrow a leaf, for example, from the campaign against smoking. Smoking is also equally dangerous to somebody’s health and the World Health Organization (WHO) has literally banned smoking. Previously when you boarded a motor vehicle or an aeroplane, they used to ask you: “Do you want to go to a smoking area or a non-smoking area?” Now, they tell you that the entire flight is a non-smoking zone. If you look at the way the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Kajwang?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for Sen. Wako to suggest that the bar in the National Assembly is a working place? We know the working places in the National Assembly, which are the library, the Chamber and all the other offices where people work. The bar is a bar; so, you cannot make the bar a working place.

Sen. Wako?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, those are Sen. Kajwang’s words; I did not say the bar, I said in the working place. As far as I know, where I am now standing, it is a working place. I did not say the bar and I will never say the bar. Of course, a place which is a bar is a bar because---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is this sabotage? Why are these microphones not working? It is now okay. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was developing this concept that you must, somehow in this Bill, provide for the no-go-zones as far as alcohol is concerned, very much as in the campaign against smoking where there are no-go-zones. I was saying that there are places here – offices, factories, unless, of course, it is a factory making alcohol – but the concept here is selling. I am surprised that we have not provided, for example, for educational institutions. Educational institutions have not been made no-go-zones as far as selling or conveying alcohol is concerned. So, when this Bill goes back to the Committee, I would really urge the Committee to think very carefully and come up with a section in this Bill where there are no-go-zones as far as alcohol is concerned. The only thing I can think about is educational institutions. We have now found that so much is going on in educational institutions. Our youth are being corrupted at a very early age. In fact, some people say that primary school pupils are already drinking. They do this at the educational institutions. They do it because of the sachets they can carry. As the teacher is teaching, the student takes what appears to be water. However, this is alcohol. We should have those no-go zones as far as alcohol is concerned so that when it goes before the Committee, we bring amendments here. I think I will be among the first to vote for that particular amendment. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator, your time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to add my voice and concern to this very important Bill that has come to the Floor of this House. I want to begin by lauding the efforts of the Senate Majority Leader for having brought this Bill to the Floor of this House at this time. As we deliberate on this Motion, it is a matter of fact that the deaths that occurred in this country recently, attributed to consumption of alcohol rate amongst the biggest tragedies to befall this country in the recent past. I believe that the amendments contained in this Bill and the intention in the overall of this Bill will go a long way in ensuring that abuse of alcohol in its sale, consumption and packaging will become a social advantage or make our society better and deal with alcoholism. Recently, there was legislation that had required packaging of alcohol to conform to certain standards that reduce the possibility of young people, especially students, to consume alcohol. Alcohol used to be packed in sachets and it was very easy for our young children to go into supermarkets buy and conceal the products in their pockets. However, as recently as two or three weeks ago, I remember going to a supermarket as I drove to central Kenya and noticing some alcohol that was still packaged by the so-called new licenced dealers. This one was packaged in the plastic packages that can be concealed easily. I propose that as we enforce that requirement, packaging in sachets should be discouraged and discontinued, even the small tiny bottles, reminiscent to some which are served by the airlines. That trend has been copied by local brewers and dealers. Somebody can go and buy the small contents of alcohol and conceal them. Students can put these in their bags, amongst books and you will not see them. The effort and intention of having discouraged packaging in sachets is still defeated if we do not deal with packaging in very small plastic bottles. My county is one of those that have had to bear the brunt of alcoholism and its effects. Recently, we buried many people because of alcoholism. I take this opportunity to send my condolences to the numerous families in Kiambu County; from Limuru, Banana, Thika and Kikuyu who lost their loved ones. Many of the victims lost their lives after consuming alcohol in the latest catastrophe that befell this country. It was very sad, to watch in one funeral, coffins paraded for as many as 11 people and most of them from the same family. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. From the outset, I want to register my disappointment with the technological apparatus of this House and the manner in which this House is being treated when it comes to this technology. I think that the relevant officers must take it seriously. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, be it as it may, I want to speak about this Bill.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am willing to be informed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. Murkomen, as a Commissioner, that we will soon be moving to the new Chamber which has better equipment. Tomorrow it is going to be inspected, so that we can move. I want to assure you that the kind of equipment that we are going to find there is of the highest quality; not from the East.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take that information seriously, but also with caution. This is because---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Musila, the distinguished Senator for Kitui County which is a neighbouring county to Tharaka-Nithi and who I respect very much, as a senior politician in this country in order to cast aspersions at some of the countries of this world, that have shown incredible friendship to the people of Kenya, by saying that any technology from the eastern part of the world is faulty? Is he in order and is that in accordance with the etiquette and responsibilities bestowed upon us, as legislators, to cast aspersions wholesale at all countries that fall within the eastern side of the globe, many of which are genuinely friendly by action and words?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your permission, again, as my good neighbour has alluded; we respect each other very much. In fact, I only said this because Members of the Senate have talked about this particular equipment coming from China. If I am to be specific, I meant China because Members have voiced their concern that this equipment is substandard because it comes from China. I want to assure Sen. Murkomen and the entire Senate that we have taken care of that and that it is not going to happen. We have given them the best technology that is available.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator for Kitui is a distinguished Member of the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) that is involved in the procurement of this equipment. Is he in order to suggest to the whole world that equipment that they procured competitively--- Because China produces both cheap and good products. It depends on your pocket. So, when you are the one who procured faulty sub-standard equipment, you take responsibility as the PSC.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish I knew that I was provoking a situation. I want to exonerate, the present PSC on the equipment in discussion. This equipment was procured long before the current PSC took office and additional information is that this equipment was given as a donation. It was not procured by the then PSC. In my community we say that mbuzi wa bure haangaliwi meno. So, it is obvious that we got something free and cheap and this is a lesson for the PSC.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think I am satisfied with the answer given by the Commissioner, the Chairman of the Wiper party. Earlier, Sen. Sang spoke about what Sen. Kajwang was saying about “ Baba” and the reporting. When I saw people of that age The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senate Majority Leader?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Am I to reply?

Yes, but I believe that there are some other contributions on the Floor.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I am sorry but I am looking at the clock – unless we want to do this maybe tomorrow, you can guide us.

I propose that we exhaust the contributions before you reply, Senate Majority Leader. Proceed, Sen. Musila.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was saying that this is a very important piece of legislation and while also congratulating my good neighbour and friend, I thought that one day is not sufficient for a Bill as important as this one and that, therefore, I will be allowed to give my contribution for five minutes so that I can continue tomorrow and also give other hon. Senators the opportunity to make their contributions. So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity, once again, to join my colleagues in applauding the efforts of the Senate Majority Leader in crafting this legislation. But let me say, at the outset, that legislation is not the answer to the problems of alcoholism that we have in this country. Those of us who have been in the provincial administration for a long time know that from time immemorial, I remember when I joined the administration in 1968--- Are you surprised?

The first duty I was to do was to tell the chiefs and to warn them that you must eliminate alcohol in your areas or you will be sacked. That chorus is still being sung up to today. District Commissioners (DC) are telling chiefs that if we find local brew in your area of jurisdiction, you will be sacked. This has been going on and on but the problem of alcohol has not decreased. That does not mean that we do not need legislation. We need legislation. However, in addition to that legislation, there are other areas that we need to look at and that is the morals of our nation, the love for money, the fact that we do not punish offenders. Here, I can refer to the recent incidences where people have lost their sight. You will recall the incidences in Mai Mahiu and Chumvi. Those happened but we have not heard people who are responsible for those actions being punished. This is a whole collection The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators. It is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. Senator Musila, you have a balance of ten minutes and you will resume once the debate on the Bill resumes. That said, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 11th June, 2014 at 2.30 pm. The Senate rose at 6.30 pm The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.