Hon. Senators, I wish to acknowledge the presence of two distinguished guests who are seated at the Speaker's gallery namely, Mr. Donald (Don) J. Schneider and Ms. Lucinda (Cindy) L. Ashley. Hon. Senators, Mr. Donald J. Schneider is a distinguished legislative veteran who served as the Chief Administrative Officer/Chief Clerk of the Senate of the State of Wisconsin, United States of America (USA) from 1977 through to 2003. After that, Mr. Schneider served as a parliamentarian and an advisor to the Senate leaders on administrative matters. Mr. Schneider has an equally impressive international background, having provided technical assistance to not less than 25 overseas Parliaments. His areas of expertise include legislative processes, parliamentary procedures, internal management, capacity building, and record-keeping. He is also a leading specialist on the application of information technologies to legislative institutions. Hon. Senators, Ms. Lucinda (Cindy) L. Ashley is a Senior Leadership Legislative Staff veteran who served as the Chief of Staff for the President of the Wisconsin State Senate, USA, for most of her legislative career spanning 1976 to 2003. Her areas of expertise include leadership and staff operations, Senate and Assembly relations, legislative and executive relations, and legislative issues development, legislative committee coordination, training of new legislative staff, constituent relations, local government relations, press relations, campaign coordination and development. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:- Report of the annual Teachers Service Commission (TSC) for the year 2012- 2013.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:- Report of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on the National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill, (Senate Bill No. 26 of 2014). REPORT OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE ON THE PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES (AMENDMENT) BILL Report of the Standing Committee on Labor and Social Welfare on the Persons with Disabilities (Amendment) Bill, (Senate Bill No. 24 of 2014).

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Let us take the requests first and then we can get the responses. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. STATUS OF BONUS PAYMENT TO SMALL-SCALE TEA FARMERS UNDER KTDA

Mr. Speaker, Sir, six weeks ago, I requested for a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture regarding the status of the tea industry in Kenya. I notice that the Chairperson had organised a symposium or seminar. I am sure by now the results of the report should be back in the House so that we can deliberate on it.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, I thought you were looking at me and I imagined you must also be listening. I said that we should get the requests first and then do responses. You are requesting for a response. That should have come at the time when we are asking for the responses.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I, probably, misunderstood the instructions that you gave, but I am willing to oblige. Proceed, Sen. Gwendo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will wait for the time to request for a response.

Then let us move on to the responses. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, your question was requested to the Chairperson of the Committee of Agriculture or any other Member of that committee. Proceed, Sen. Mositet.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as what the hon. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan had said, after he requested the statement, the Committee was able to organize for the symposium. After that we deliberated and our report will find its way to the House this week.

Order, Senator! That is not being helpful to us. There was a specific request on the statement. Of course, the conference must have dealt with the matter. Bringing the report to the House this week will not help us. When will you respond to Sen. (Prof.) Lesan’s statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was deliberated very well---

Order! I just need a date.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, tomorrow afternoon. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the issue of tea - it is important to emphasize this - there were several statements sought. However, in my case for Murang’a County, a petition was sought. You will recall that we had a stakeholders meeting on 10th October, 2014, which we appreciate. It was very well attended. However, the Standing Orders require that once a petition is brought to the Floor of the House, an answer must be given within 60 days, so that the petitioners may know the outcome of the deliberations of the relevant committee. It is not just about an answer being given or a statement being issued, there is still the issue of the outstanding petitions from Murang’a, Nyamira and Kisii. I would like to know the fate of those petitions.

Sen. Mositet, you may respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I promise I will try to bring all the statements tomorrow afternoon.

All of them?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I remember, when they were being sought, the Chairman said he would do so after that particular meeting.

That is okay, Mr. Speaker, Sir. RECRUITMENT OF THE VICE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NAIROBI

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to issue a statement from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology as regards the appointment of the Vice Chancellor of Nairobi University---

It is the University of Nairobi.

I sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is the University of Nairobi. Pursuant to Senate Standing Order No.45(2), the Senator for Murang’a County, Sen. Kembi-Gitura requested for a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding the recruitment of the Vice-Chancellor, University of Nairobi. In the statement, the Chairperson was expected to report on the following:- (a) Whether he is satisfied that the Council of the University of Nairobi acted correctly in conducting the interviews itself instead of having an independent body conduct the same as has been the norm in the past? Did the Council have the capacity to interview for such a high position? If so, why has there been so much acrimony? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with a lot of respect to the Chairman of the Committee, this is by far the weakest statement that I have heard issued in this House since we started last year. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! You are supposed to seek clarification.

I am, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This matter is of such great importance---

But you are making another submission altogether.

With your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, Sir, he says that the whole Council cannot be judged to have no authority. I did not ask about authority. I talked about moral authority to continue as a Council. Section 39 of the Universities Act 2012 provides very clearly the job description of the Council when it comes to the interviewing of the Vice-Chancellor. Can the Chairman tell us why in the interviewing panel there were other people other than the members of the Council sitting in that interviewing panel? Can he tell us why Prof. Walter Mwanda, who is not a member of the Council, was sitting there? He is a member of the Senate. Why was Prof. Japheth Kiptoon, who is neither a Member of the Council nor a member of the Senate was sitting in the interviewing panel? Why even today, there has been no appointment if the Cabinet Secretary is satisfied that the interviews were free and that every candidate got a fair chance? The point I am making is that I am not satisfied. I hope that the Chairman is not satisfied and that he will go back to the Cabinet Secretary or summon him---

Order, Senator! You have put your issues. Let us hear the Chairman first.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are so many issues. I hope you will give me another chance to come back on this issue because we are talking about equity, fairness and individuals who have cultivated their careers which can be destroyed at the stroke of a pen because people have partisan interests in this position.

Let us hear, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a serious issue. Apart from what the Chairman has told us I would like to know whether it is true that Prof. Walter Mwanda and Prof. Japheth Kiptoon are not members of the University Council of Nairobi. If, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Chairman, you may respond now.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is my hope that---

Order, Mr. Chairman! Members should help the Chair on requests for those seeking statements or asking for responses. When the rest of you want to participate in a particular response, let us have you under interventions. That helps me to make the distinction.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the clarifications sought and to the best of my knowledge, I do not think the Vice Chancellor has been appointed or has he? If he has not, when will he be appointed? Secondly, we are seeing a trend going on at Jogoo House where the Minister is abusing his discretion by appointing persons who have not been listed as the top interviewees. This happened recently in the case of the Wasanga successor where he jumped the line and appointed somebody who was not number one. We have had a very strange statement from the Chairman that interviewees were made to sign that the interview was fair. Which interviewee would not sign that? In fact, that is an intimidation. You cannot be interviewed by a panel and be asked to sign that you were interviewed fairly. You are looking for a job; you must supplicate yourself them. Is he satisfied that this is the right process of recruiting---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I am on an intervention and also on a point of order.

Order! What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki)

(Sen. Wetangula)

Order, Senator! These were clarifications, not a debate. From my point of view, both of you are right. Even as it appears, you are very opposed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I expected the statement to be very open. However, from what the Chairperson has read, we can draw some conclusion that it is not open. The information is not come out clearly. For example, we should have been told how many people had applied for the job. Those who were interviewed and how they scored. They should have been more generous with information. Now that the Cabinet Secretary is very much satisfied, this raises a lot of concern. May be there is guarded information which members of public are not supposed to know. Therefore, the Chairperson needs to come up with a statement that will answer our concerns.

What is your point of order, Sen. Obure?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You just made a pronouncement that both the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader were correct. I was just wondering where do we move from there?

Order, Sen. Obure!

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the information we have, we have been told some other considerations might have been used to pick the third option as the best candidate. Would I, therefore, be in order to demand that these considerations are told to this House so that we know what conservations were considered?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are talking about a very important issue which relates to appointment to public offices. We know from various reports the National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) and others that there is a lot of dissatisfaction in appointments to public offices whereby if somebody is from one particular ethnic group, they make sure that the entire, a large proportion of people in that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, what most of the Senators are saying could be in order. However, what is important is that there is the Council of the University of Nairobi which sat. As they sat, there must have been their own conditions that each candidate was to fulfill for one to be nominated as the best candidate. In this case, I believe the best candidate must have won. I am not trying to tell you that there is somebody who has already qualified. Shortlisting was done by the Council for them to forward the three names to the Senate. That has not taken place. Therefore, let us wait until the final candidate is named. If there is any problem, we can go ahead and summon the CS for Education, Science and Technology to the Committee on Education for him to answer.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am actually quite disappointed by the way the Chairman of this Committee is handling this issue. First of all, the five issues I have raised have not been answered. The answer given in “c,” says:- “The cabinet secretary starts by admitting there was leakage of what the council had done, never mind that they had signed a confidentiality oath or document before they went to this.” He says very casually that no one knows how the candidates’ marks and rankings were leaked and the persons responsible. Consequently, the entire council cannot be judged to have no authority. I had not talked about authority. I talked about moral authority of them continuing as a council. He says, the entire council cannot be judged to have no moral authority to continue being in place unless and until there is proven evidence that the council was involved in the said leakage. Who else was involved in the leakage if not the council because they are the only ones who did this interview and they are jointly and severally responsible? Mr. Speaker, Sir, if anybody cares to recall this issue; the interviews were conducted on 15th of October. The same evening, the results were trending in social places in Nairobi and in the social media. A person from Students Organisation of Nairobi University (SONU), the students council, wrote on his blog that, “No so and so, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We will have Sen. Wetangula, then Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. I want Members to note that this is not a debate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a debate, but this is an important matter. We are talking about the oldest and biggest university in the Republic of Kenya. This is the University of Nairobi which yours truly is an alumni. I do not know whether the Chair has looked at this answer. It has very curious statements---

Order! You are saying “yours truly”. Who is “yours truly”?

“Yours truly” in common English means the person speaking.

Then you are also making a determination that others who are not speaking may not be belonging to where you belong?

I can only speak for myself, but I know many of these distinguished Senators went to the University of Nairobi.

That is better.

This Statement has three curious statements. In the first one, the Chairman says that it is with regard to why there was much acrimony and no one knows the exact answer. It is, probably, traceable to individual and community interests given the importance and seniority of the position that was being interviewed. So, individual and community interest have crept into the interview for the appointment of the Vice Chancellor of the top university in the country. Then he goes on to say that no one knows how the candidates’ marks and rankings were leaked and who the persons responsible are. That notwithstanding, he says that he appointment should be done. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Wetangula! You are being repetitive.

I want to invite you to direct that the Chairman, whom we have tremendous respect for, because he has been doing a very good job in this House, retracts this clumsy response and goes back to even carry out an inquiry by summoning the Minister and those involved to tell us the truth as to what exactly happened at the number one university in the country.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, my worry is that two things have happened which I find out of order. First, Sen. Kembi-Gitura’s questions were very clear and very precise. However, in the process of receiving answers from the Chairman of the Committee on Education, some of the Senators here have hijacked Sen. Kembi-Gitura’s questions to ask and answer their own questions. When Sen. Wako and Sen. (Dr.) Machage, for example, demand to know the criteria used to jump number one and pick number three, are they telling us that an appointment of number three has already taken place? Secondly---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. Wako, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki is on a point of order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have all the respect for Sen. Kembi-Gitura and I would be the last person to impute improper motives on the Senator for Murang’a. However, would I be in order to ask him to declare his interest in this matter because he seems to be having information that we do not have? The answer that Sen. Karaba is very clear that the council conducted interviews, ranked three people, presented the three names and the law says that “any of the three”. The reason the law says that is because there could be other factors like ethnic diversity, gender and so on.

Order! You had already mentioned those issues. First and foremost, there is nothing for a Member being asked to declare his interest. It is provided for. So, Sen. Kembi-Gitura, you have been challenged.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, short of also demanding that the Leader of Majority apologises and withdraws to me, I am challenging him, since he seems to know things I do not know, to stand at the Dispatch Box and say what interest I have.

Order, Senators! I was told a long time ago that a question is not answered by a question. I take it that Sen. Kembi-Gitura has no other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the work we do in this House is not playing to the gallery. We have a national job to do. You have stated correctly that I have no personal interest in this issue. I feel saddened that somebody no less than the Senate Majority Leader can stand at the Dispatch Box with impunity and seek to pontificate to me and the House and tell me to declare my personal interest. It is imperative that if he does not know any personal interest I have in the matter, he should withdraw and apologise, not just to me, but to the House. I do not want to be intimidated by the Senate Majority Leader, that he will choose the questions I ask or the statements I seek in this House. That I have to seek his approval so that they do not, as it were, have personal interest in this matter. I am a Senator for Murang’a County. At the same time, I have a national duty to play when I stand on the Floor of this House. Whether a person comes from whatever corner of the country, it is wrong for the Senate Majority Leader to impute ill motive on me or any other Member or to purport that he can decide what a personal interest is and what is not. What statement can be or not sought in this House. I demand that he apologises and withdraws.

Order Senators! This debate does not need to arise. Sen. Kembi-Gitura, the Senator for Murang’a County, Standing Order No.93 says:- “A Senator who wishes to speak on any matter in which the Senator has a pecuniary or proprietary interest shall first declare that interest”. The Standing Orders have already contemplated that you can be asked. All you need to say is, “I do not have”. That is all. I helped you to say so and you have confirmed yourself. I do not think we need to subject whoever asked that question to any further The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Not on this one, hon. Members.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is totally different.

How does it become a point of order on this matter if it is totally different? It is totally different, but related.

Okay, let us hear you with one caveat; I will determine the relation or otherwise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This matter is so crucial for all the reasons that the Senators who have spoken to it have stated. To my mind, probably, you should guide us on what happens if the appointment is then made before the report comes to the House. Shall we have spoken in vain this afternoon? Could you direct that the appointment be stayed until after this House has pronounced itself?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As I appreciate the advice you gave, with the quotation of Standing Order No.93, I request that Standing Order No.94 (1) also be read. It says:- “A Senator shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts that the Senator alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate any such facts instantly.”

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, what are you seeking?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was of the view that the Deputy Speaker was right to demand substantiation from the Senate Majority Leader under Standing Order No.94(1).

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, when you read these orders, start by reading them to yourself because if you read them also very carefully, you are equally responsible for what you are asking us to do. I said that the Senate Majority Leader did not say that Senator Kembi-Gitura has some particular personal interest. He did not. He only asked him to declare whether he has some personal interest and the Senator for Murang’a County said that he has no personal interest. I said that the basis of that declaration is provided for under Standing Order No.93. You cannot ask a Member for not invoking a particular Standing Order that provides for that inquiry to be made. That is the way it is. If you went ahead and said that Senator Kembi-Gitura has this particular interest, then I can invoke that one. For The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We will now take Orders No.9, 11 and 12 together because they all require voting. Hon. Senators, how many minutes should we take with the Division Bell?

Let us do two minutes.

Hon. Senators, we will be having three votes and the procedure will be this: I will call out one vote at a time, you vote on it. We will not announce the results. They will be assembled here then we will go to the second. You will vote on it, then we go to the third one, you vote on it. We will then announce the results after all the voting has been done.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

You may now open the door and draw the Bar so that we can proceed.

While still on the Supplementary Order Paper, I request to call upon The Senate Majority Leader, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, to give the notice of Motion, Order No.13. After that notice of Motion is given, we will move on to Order No.10 to conclude that item, then move on to the Motion itself. The Senate Majority Leader, please, proceed.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, WHEREAS Article 93 provides for the establishment of the Parliament of Kenya consisting of the National Assembly and the Senate; AND WHEREAS Article 94 provides for the role of Parliament and, in particular, provides at Article 94(1) that the legislative authority of the Republic is derived from the people and, at the national level, is vested in and exercised by Parliament; AND WHEREAS Articles 95 and 96 of the Constitution provide for the specific roles of the National Assembly and the Senate; AND WHEREAS Article 96 of the Constitution provides that the Senate represents the Counties and serves to protect the interests of the Counties and their Governments and further participates in the law-making function of Parliament by considering, debating and approving Bills concerning Counties as provided in Part 4 of Chapter Eight of the Constitution; COGNIZANT that pursuant to Article 3 of the Constitution every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend the Constitution. FURTHER COGNIZANT that Article 163(6) of the Constitution provides that the Supreme Court may give an advisory opinion at the request of the national Government, any State organ, or any County Government with respect to any matter concerning County Government; RECALLING that the Supreme Court of Kenya in Supreme Court Advisory Opinion No. 2 of 2013 reaffirmed the central role of Senate in the legislative process and in particular with respect to Bills that concern County Governments and further The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Next Order!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: I beg to move that The Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill, (Senate Bill No.10 of 2014) be now read the Third Time.

(Sen. Wetangula) seconded.

Order, Members! Let us have the Division Bell rung for one minute.

Order, Senators! Draw the Bar and close the door.

Hon. Senators, get ready to vote. Are you ready? You may commence voting for one minute.

You may now commence voting; one minute.

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

You may now draw the bar and open the door. We now go to Order No.13, which is Motion.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion. THAT, WHEREAS Article 93 provides for the establishment of the Parliament of Kenya consisting of the National Assembly and the Senate; AND WHEREAS Article 94 provides for the role of Parliament and, in particular, provides at Article 94(1) that the legislative authority of the Republic is derived from the people and, at the national level, is vested in and exercised by Parliament; AND WHEREAS Articles 95 and 96 of the Constitution provide for the specific roles of the National Assembly and the Senate; AND WHEREAS Article 96 of the Constitution provides that the Senate represents the Counties and serves to protect the interests of the Counties and their Governments and further participates in the law-making function of Parliament by considering, debating and approving Bills concerning Counties as provided in Part 4 of Chapter Eight of the Constitution; COGNIZANT that pursuant to Article 3 of the Constitution every person has an obligation to respect, uphold and defend the Constitution. FURTHER COGNIZANT that Article 163(6) of the Constitution provides that the Supreme Court may give an advisory opinion at the request of the national Government, any State organ, or any County Government with respect to any matter concerning County Government; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to congratulate Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki and tell him; well done. You have moved this Motion most ably, most efficiently and you have done justice to it. Wole Soyinka wrote a book called “ The Man Died ” and in that book he says: “A man dies if he keeps silent in the face of injustice and tyranny”. Injustice is being meted on this Senate. This Senate must stand up in a bipartisan manner as a protector and defender of devolution. Regardless of which part of the political divide we come from, the people of Kenya voted for this Constitution because of devolution. Others were just joy riders. Devolution was the key to people voting for this Constitution. This country has come a long way and I feel very happy to see you sitting there as our Speaker coming from where you come from because in the history of this country, people from your part of the country were just part of the statistics of this country, but now you can sit here and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Everybody will be there and we will tell Kenyans that no Senator is fighting for a personal ego, no Senator is fighting for a person’s turf; we are fighting for the people of Kenya. Let me give you a few examples. Since we got Independence, Mandera celebrated having two kilometers of tarmac road after devolution came into being. The County of Marsabit, last year, graded 2,000 kilometres of road. Since Independence, they had never had more than 1,000 kilometres but cattle tracks.

Shame.

A county like Kakamega which today has been declared the poorest in Kenya in terms of household’s ratings will now get money to change the lives of people. Kwale and Kilifi which are classified as the poorest counties in Kenya have been given money and work is being done. The forgotten Turkana; now everybody is cascading there. Then there is Garissa. I want the distinguished Senator for Lamu to speak a bit more about land grabbing in Lamu. I can go, as a Kenyan, and buy land in Lamu. I have no right to go and appropriate myself land in Lamu because I am well placed in society. You cannot do that. For you who come from Turkana, you must keep vigil on Turkana, Marsabit and everywhere. They are busy drawing maps at Ardhi House and allocating themselves land. They will never get to see it but they have titles and blocs. They will sit and sell them to people in New York, Vancouver and everywhere else. You will see a mzungu appearing with a suitcase being guided and he will be told that he owns a certain property. This is a property that you have lived on with your ancestors for centuries. That is why we are fighting for resources to be controlled by counties. That is why minerals must remain under the management of counties. The national Government can give policy but it has no right to determine who mines where in Taita-Taveta and in Kajiado. It cannot determine who goes to build a resort in Maasai Mara or Amboseli. That is the work of the county government and those are the resources we are talking about. Senators, my brothers and sisters, you are here for a purpose. You are not a transient Senate. You are the first Senate after the abolition of the first Senate to come in place under the new Constitution that even 15 and 20 year olds know that Sen. Mositet is different from MP, Sakuda; yeye ni baba wa kaunti, ilhali Sakuda ni Mbunge. When you go to Laikipia, Sen. G.G. Kariuki must be given the reference he deserves because he is the hunter. He comes to Nairobi to hunt and take billions of shillings to Laikipia County. You have seen what is going on in the National Assembly and we have our party Members there. The National Assembly is very preoccupied with CDF and many of us have told them that we are not interested in CDF because we have run CDF before. The work of the Senator goes beyond CDF which is only Kshs100 million per constituency while Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is taking Kshs10 billion to Kakamega. How can he be preoccupied with CDF? We are fighting for a much larger and nobler cause to go and change the lives of people. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion in its entirety. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to repeat what the Senate Majority Leader and Senate Minority Leader have said. Out of the questions that we will present to the Supreme Court, the answer to the question as to the constitutional status of the Acts of Parliament which have been passed without your concurrence is that the Acts of Parliament are unconstitutional. I heard the Senate Majority Leader suggesting that, in fact, when there is no concurrence, there ought to be a mediation. The drafters of our Constitution, in Article 110 (3) assumed that the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Speaker of the Senate would act reasonably within the law and follow the law. Article 110 (3) suggests that you ought to be a very busy Speaker. This is because the words in the Constitution read:- “Before either House considers a Bill, the Speakers of the National Assembly and Senate shall jointly resolve any question as to whether it is a Bill concerning counties and, if it is, whether it is a special or an ordinary Bill.” There is nowhere in this Constitution that suggests that the Speaker of the National Assembly, hon. Justin Muturi, ought to send you a letter. There is nothing in this Constitution that suggests that you ought to write a letter to him. This Constitution suggests that you would sit in a meeting and jointly resolve that a Bill either concerns a county or not and the Bill is either a special Bill or an ordinary Bill. If the 46 Bills or Acts of Parliament do not have your decision, the Speaker of the National Assembly has violated the Constitution. Those Acts of Parliament are unconstitutional and there are no two ways about it. The Constitution, in fact, did not envision a dispute between yourself and the Speaker of the National Assembly. Maybe it is time that this Senate drafts a referendum question. In the Senate of the Republic of Australia, a provision for dispute is provided for. That resolution, if none exists, is very drastic and both Houses in Australia, in fact, can be dissolved where you have a dispute like the one that we have in the Republic of Kenya. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have waited for too long. Yesterday, I attended a forum where everybody was wondering why it is that the Senate of the Republic of Kenya has waited and issued ultimatums upon ultimatums to the National Assembly or the Speaker of the National Assembly. They were wondering whether we are that toothless or nice. What is happening reminds me of the definitions given to soccer and rugby where they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order Members. Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 12th November, 2014, at 2.30 p. m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.