Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:- The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Operations of the County Government of Nakuru and its defunct Local Authorities for the Period 1st January, 2013 to 30th June 2013. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Operations of the County Government of Kericho and its Defunct Local Authorities for the Period 1st January 2013 to 30th June 2013. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Operations of the County Government of Narok and its Defunct Local Authorities for the Period 1st January 2013 to 30th June 2013. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Operations of the County Government of Baringo and its Defunct Local Authorities for the Period 1st January 2013 to 30th June 2013.

The Chairperson of the Session Committee on Delegated Legislation, you are listed to lay a Paper on Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:- The Reports of the Kenya Delegation to the 131st, 130th and 129th Assemblies of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) and Related Meetings Held in Geneva, Switzerland from 12th to 16th October 2014, 16th to 20th March 2014 and 7th to 9th October 2013.

Next order. Sen. Billow - although I have neither seen your request nor you being listed and that is why I could not recognize you - but proceed. PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT FUND REGULATIONS 2014.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my apologies. I thought it was forwarded to your office. However, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:- The Public Finance Management Affirmative Action, Social Development Fund Regulations 2014.

Next order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the reports of the Kenya Delegation to the 131st, 130th and 129th of the Inter-Parliamentary Union IPU and related meetings held in Geneva, Switzerland from 12th to 16th October 2014, 16th to 20th March 2014 and 7th to 9th October 2013, laid on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 3rd December 2014. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Kivuti, you had done your bit on that Statement. I guess the remainder was from the one who had sought the Statement.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had already finished reading the Statement yesterday. We were waiting for Sen. Musila to intervene.

Sen. Kivuti, if you are in agreement, you just nod. You will save our time. Sen. Musila.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First and foremost, allow me to thank the Standing Committee on Land and Natural Resources for carrying out an investigation as requested. Through this House, I received the report by the Committee and I want to seek a few clarifications. First, the Committee concluded that this land was irregularly or illegally allocated to the National Intelligence Service (NIS). Our own co-operative society is using the land and has cattle on it. It is unprecedented for NIS to take 400 acres. My issue is that despite the fact that the Committee acknowledges that this land is irregularly allocated, it has just made recommendations, one of which is simply that no further transactions should be undertaken by the NIS, when we know that a letter of allotment has already been issued. I thought we could go further, through the Chair, to demand that this land reverts to the community of Kitui. Under the Constitution, this is community land and the community was not consulted. Therefore, this recommendation, in fact, is not clear as to the way forward on this land. If we are not careful, sooner than later, we will find this land occupied by NIS unless this House acts decisively. I am asking, through you, whether there is anything that this House can do to stop our land – Kanyanyooni Ranch, which is occupied by Kanyanyooni Co-operative Society – from being grabbed by the Government through the NIS.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have three Statements that were sought---

Order! We are still on Sen. Kivuti’s Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to what the distinguished Senator for Kitui has sought, I want the Chairman of the Committee to explain to the House why the observations are at total variance with their recommendations. You cannot find that the allocation was irregular and then simply recommend that no further transaction should take place. If the allocation was irregular, then the entire transaction is void ab initio . Therefore, there should be no transactions whatsoever on this land. More importantly, this land was trust land which was vested in the county council to hold in the interest of the people of Kitui. What is the Committee’s recommendation The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am rising on a point of order.

What is your point of order? Is it related to this?

No, Mr. Speaker Sir.

Then hold your horses. I will come back to you. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. According to Article 67(2)(e) of the Constitution of Kenya, the National Land Commission (NLC) is directed:- “To initiate investigation, on its own initiative or on a complaint, into present or historical land injustices, and recommend appropriate redress.” Could the Chairperson tell us why his Committee refused to make that recommendation to the NLC so that you give them an opportunity to comply with this particular Article and eventually return this land to the people of Kitui?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, beyond Article 67, the NLC Act Sections 14(1), (2), (3), (4) and (5) are very clear. What the Committee needs to do is cite those recommendations; that if they have found that the title deed or the land was irregularly granted under Section 14(6) of the NLC Act, the NLC can move to revoke the title. It is straight forward.

Yes, Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, commenting on Sen. Musilas’s queries, it is true there was an irregularity and our report clearly states as such. The irregularity may not necessarily be an illegality. What happened is that there was an omission in the procedure of dealing with the land in as far as the Trust Land Act is concerned. The Constitution envisages a situation whereby in the new dispensation we should have enacted the Community Land Act. As we know, it is in this House and not yet ready. We did not lose sight of that and that is why in our second recommendation we observed that the Community Land Bill needs to be enacted quickly. Regarding the issue raised by Sen. Musila about stopping any activity by the NIS, actually that is contained in our third recommendation where we say we resolve that no further transaction should be taken by NIS. Needless to say, because the other Senators have raised this, there is no title deed issued to the NIS, at the moment. The Committee decided that it should not be issued. Coming to Sen. Wetangula’s comments about trust land and irregularity, it is envisaged that from the submissions which were given by the NIS and the County Government of Kitui, the County Government was not saying: “No, we can never have a Government institution in Kitui.” They actually queried why NIS needs 400 acres. It was felt that was too much land. Part of our recommendation is based on the fact that, maybe, they do not need that much land. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You realise that this is a very a serious matter. Ordinarily, the report by the Committee should come to the Senate in form of a Motion, so that we can approve or not. It looks to me that we will not have that opportunity. In view of the gravity of this matter and the fact that we know that the title deed is under preparation, will I be in order to ask you, using your authority as the Speaker, to ensure through communication to the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development that this matter holds until the Senate makes a decision on the Motion that is to come? If we leave it like this, I am afraid and I have information that the title deed to this land is under preparation and may be issued any time now.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In trying to fortify what Sen. Musila is saying, did you notice – if you have this Report – that what the Chairperson says and his conclusions are totally unrelated? He says in his observations that the allocation of the land by the county council did not comply with procedure. Then, he goes to say that the county council did not comply with procedure and the allocation was unprocedural. Then, he stands up and says that the complication came because the NLC issued a letter of allotment; totally contradictory. If he does not have the facts to back what he saying, it would be good if he went back to look for more material. You cannot risk dispossessing the people of Kitui 400 acres of prime land that is in the hands of a cooperative that is earning a living on it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My friend, Sen. Wetangula, is not reading between the lines. He says what is contained in our observations; that is, there is an irregularity.

Order, Sen. Kivuti! You gave a document which has lines. I suppose they are supposed to read the lines. What is there to be read between the lines?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, our observations are very clear about irregularity. Because of this irregularity, we stop NIS from proceeding to obtain a title deed. That is the basic point of it. Until and unless that irregularity is addressed, then a title deed should not be issued.

Order Senators! I am reading the Chairperson loud and clear. That recommendation agrees with the proposal by Sen. Musila that no title The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You remember very well last week, there was a petition from Narok by one Joseph ole Karia, concerning the mismanagement of the finances of Narok County Government. To my surprise, over the weekend, the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, went to a public baraza in my county and addressed some of the issues which are before the Floor of this House. He said that he will support the governor because he is innocent. I do not know how he came to reach that conclusion. Could my good friend, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, declare his interest in Narok, because Narok residents are suffering from the corruption which is going on in the county? Could he also be a beneficiary of some of the issues in Narok? My only plea is that we should save the residents of Narok County from these hungry scavengers because we are fed up.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, do you have anything to say?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have walked in when Sen. Ntutu was on his feet. However, I have heard the substratum of his point of order. Two things: One, it is true that I was in Narok on Sunday, 30th November, 2014. I was invited there for a function. It is also true that there are some remarks that I made and Sen. Ntutu has been in touch with me after that. When we were going for the function in question, I tried to get him, but I could not reach him. Sen. Ntutu and I are already discussing because some of the remarks that I made were not appropriate to him. We are in the process of discussing that. Regarding the second issue of interest, I have no interest at all in Narok County and I can say that with a straight face. I hold no brief for anybody. I have no interest at all and I can say this with a lot of confidence. However, in terms of personal relationship between Sen. Ntutu and I, are managing that. I think that is work in progress. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order Senators! Do you really want to discuss this in plenary?

I will allow, but be prepared to be ruled out of order if I feel that you are going beyond what is expected. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I read the comments that were made by the Senate Majority Leader in Narok. I thought that, perhaps, the comments were out of order to the extent that there was a petition here. However, my concern is: In an attempt to make this Senate look relevant, people have petitioned this Senate severally. There are several petitions that were discussed even this morning. If we are going to discuss their petitions out there in rallies, we are soon going to have no relevance. Alternatively, the public is going to lose confidence in the fact that we have no capacity to deal with their petitions. That is my concern and not the relations that the Senate Majority Leader has with one of his colleagues.

That is a legitimate issue. If you operate along those lines, remove the personalities and deal with the issues that emanate from that kind of issue. Please, proceed Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. One cannot just limit this matter to the issue of the petition. You will recall that Sen. Ntutu had actually directed a request for a Statement to the Committee on County Public Account and Investments. We have been working on it, the Statement is ready and today, I will be issuing it with your permission. When the Senate Majority Leader goes to the field and makes the kinds of remarks that he made; it not only offends me, who has been working very hard to get the answer, but it also forces me to remember what happened in the case of Kericho, when there was an attempt to remove Governor Chepkwony. The same Senate Majority Leader found himself in a similar situation. This House had an opportunity to make cautionary remarks against him. I am, therefore, at a loss. We might soon be dismissed when we start visiting offices asking for answers when they know that we shall be talked to. Since Sen. Ntutu has used the word “corruption,” some of us, fear that tag being hung on our necks. It is important that the Senate Majority Leader then clarifies to this House exactly what he said, if the newspapers misquoted him. We are offended.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the point that is being made by the Senator for Narok is very important, not in terms of what was said, but the rules of debate of the House to protect its dignity and ensure that its authority is maintained. The habit of Senators, including myself, and I am, probably, attracted to behave that way because there is impunity to this fundamental principle; that any matter that is pending before the House cannot be taken out there. We must all wait until it is resolved by the House one way or the other. Now that the Senate Majority Leader is the one who is involved, can the Chair take exceptional measures, not in terms of content, but in terms of disobeying a cardinal rule, that whatever is before the House should never be a matter of debate? If you punish him, you are more likely to get compliance from my part, being a lesser being in this House. However, the moment he can go say these things and get away with it, in somebody’s county particularly, he is also undermining the authority of the Senator for that area. Although I would expect some to mitigate on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, knowing him, but on this matter, if he were in the House of Martin Shikuku, he The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Standing Order No.110(1) on Disorderly Conduct states:- “Conduct is grossly disorderly if the Senator concerned – (i) acts in any other way to the serious detriment of the dignity or orderly procedure of the Senate” Would I be in order to request that you rule the Senate Majority Leader disorderly?

Order, Sen. Machage! Read Standing Order No.110.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I have tremendous respect for the Senate Majority Leader. He is my very good neighbour and friend. However, on this one, I want to be very clear that previously, we have discussed this matter of Senators taking matters of the House outside. I remember during the case of the impeachment of the Governor for Kericho, certain Senators, including the Senate Majority Leader, went and declared support for that governor, thus making our work look like we are coming to rubber stamp what they had decided out there. Now, the good Senate Majority Leader says that they are patching up with Sen. Ntutu. However, he has not offended Sen. Ntutu. In this case, he has offended the whole House. The least that you can do is to demand an apology from the Senate Majority Leader to the House and ask him to refrain and make sure that if he does it again, further disciplinary action will be taken.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget was in Narok following the petition which was referred to our Committee. We met Sen. Ntutu on Monday, 1st December, 2014, who was obviously very visibly annoyed and raised this issue with the Committee; that we had gone to investigate a petition whose matter has been publicly decided by the Senate Majority Leader. We had to plead with him as a matter of fact to let us continue with our work. We told him that if there were some clips or something to support the allegations, then we would manage the same. However, he agreed with us, and was kind enough to allow us to continue with our work. Obviously, this is a matter he had raised when we met him on Monday morning. As the Senator for the county, he was not very amused. He eventually allowed us to continue. We are actually investigating this matter and we would appreciate if Members could as much as possible continue to refrain from discussions of the matter until it is concluded. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have once spoken from where you sit against any Member of this House going out there, and purporting to speak for and on behalf of the Senate. I appreciate that the distinguished Senator for Tharaka-Nithi has owned up that he made inappropriate statements in Narok The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, after listening to all those remarks.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to concur with all those who have spoken to a large extent. Except that I want to clarify two things. One, it is not true that I had information that there is a Petition before any Committee of this House. I did not have this information by Sunday morning. If I had that information, I would be the last person to even allude to, leave alone speaking, to anything that touches on a matter that is before this House. I am an obedient and proud Member of this Senate. I respect and give this House the dignity that it is supposed to be given. Secondly, it is also not true that we went to Narok without informing our colleague. That is not the position. I tried to reach him, I could not reach him and I have evidence of trying to reach him. That is part of the discussion we were having. Finally, because I do not know which way you will rule, even in the context of Sen. Ntutu’s displeasure, at no time have I said anything that touches on merits of any matter, even if as I have said on the first point, I did not know there was a Petition live before a Committee of this House. Even with that ignorance, I did not utter anything that touched on the merits of anything. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity to reiterate that I have respect for colleagues and for this House. In the circumstances and totality of that matter, I am at the mercy of the Chair.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. There is really no matter for debate here. You have already said your piece and others have assisted you. Let me not go beyond that. Hon. Members have spoken and Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki has appreciated that, one, matters that are active before the House should not be interrogated in some other fora. Secondly, being Majority Leader should not be confused with the majoritarian view of the Senate. The Senate has a way of deciding by the majority of the membership. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your ruling. In the circumstances, thank you also for your leniency. I take this opportunity to apologise to the Senate of the Republic of Kenya and confirm that I believe in the dignity of this House and that it should not be repeated again.

Sen. Ntutu, as the one who bears most---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since he has apologized, the people of Narok County will be a bit comfortable. They will have some confidence with the Senate. I have no objection.

Next Order. STATUS OF REVENUE COLLECTIONS IN MARA TRIANGLE AND MAASAI MARA GAME RESERVES

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had a statement request and a statement to issue on the issue of Narok, as requested by Sen. Ntutu.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the same issue of the Statement, I want your guidance on this issue. There is the Petition that has sought to address the same issues as the Statement which was requested. When we were there on Monday, the officers of the county government where we were trying to get the information were equally perplexed because there is a Statement and a Petition. I thought that if there is a Petition, it is better to execute the Petition rather than, again, issue a Statement on the same thing. What is the guidance? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What I will do is that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale will defer that Statement for today. We will consult in my Chambers and then we will give directions on which way to proceed on this matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I ask for the Statement now?

You may wish to do so. DIRECTIVE BY THE MINISTRY OF LAND, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT TO MOVE LAND DOCUMENTS FROM KAKAMEGA, MERU AND MACHAKOS COUNTIES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources. This is in respect of the following:- On 28th November, 2014, trucks arrived at the headquarters of the lands office in Kakamega to collect lands documents and transfer them to Nairobi on the verbal orders of Charity Ngilu, the Cabinet Secretary for Land, Housing and Urban Development. There was serious commotion that occasioned me to intervene. When I intervened, the trucks were stopped from lifting the documents. As we stand now, we do not know the way forward. When I was intervening, I talked to one Kahuhia and the Land Registrar. He told me that such instructions had not only been given verbally by Ngilu to Kakamega, but they had also given them to Meru and Machakos counties.

Order, Senator! Who is Ngilu?

The Cabinet Secretary for Land, Housing and Urban Development. I had defined her at the beginning of my conversation. In view of that, I seek for the following clarifications:- (1) Has the Cabinet Secretary for Land, Housing and Urban Development, Ms. Charity Ngiulu, indeed, issued a directive that all these documents be moved to Nairobi? (2) When the documents were moved from Meru and Machakos counties, what exact documents were involved and to what benefit? (3) What reasons have necessitated this unprecedented action to be taken by the Cabinet Secretary? (4) Could the Chairperson clarify the fact that given that the local leaders and members of the public, including the Senator for Kakamega himself objected to this exercise in Kakamega County, when the trucks came from Nairobi to ferry those documents, has the exercise been abandoned? (5) Is there any relationship between the land scandals that are currently being reported in the Ministry with this movement of documents because the same seems to have happened in Nairobi, Lamu and Kwale, but has been confirmed by Mr. Kahuhia that, indeed, it has happened in Meru and Machakos? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is quite proper for the Senator for Kakamega County to raise issues regarding his county. However, I will be happy if he could expunge Meru County from his list because the Cabinet Secretary, Charity Ngilu visited Meru County when I was there. She explained to us the purpose of this circular. Indeed, we, as the Meru leaders, had no problems with her collecting the documents from the land registry in Meru because it is an exercise which was intended to benefit us by modernizing and digitizing the registry and also sorting out the perennial problem of documents disappearing in that registry. We commended the Cabinet Secretary for accelerating the issuance of title deeds which have been pending in Meru since Independence. So, I would like the name “Meru” to be deleted from the Statement that the Senator for Kakamega County is requesting.

Order, Senator, Meru County! I am afraid I will not grant your wish. Just because you represent Meru County does not give you the monopoly of issues and interests around Meru County. You would have done well to make that kind of contribution to the Chairperson of the Committee who will report to the House that Meru County is happy with that exercise. Secondly, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has a right to raise any concern, anywhere in the Republic. The fact that Sen. Murungi is happy about what the Cabinet Secretary did in his county does not necessarily make the other one happier. These issues are being sought, it is not that they were making statements with finality, they were just asking. I am sure that kind of answer, about your happiness, will still have come through the Chairperson when the Statement will be responded to.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Murungi, who has granted you a point of order?

I thought you were looking at me favourably.

Actually, you are the one looking at me with pleading eyes, so I will allow you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know I am a very obedient Senator. I will abide by your ruling. However, as framed, there can really be no answer given to the Senator for Kakamega because it is addressed to a non-existent Committee of this House. Let him read his statement again.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The observation made by the Senator for Meru County is precisely what I was about to raise. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has actually addressed his concerns to the Chairperson of the Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources Committee. I was wondering if this Senate has any such Standing Committee.

Order, hon. Members! It really amazes me how you split hairs. Even our Constitution is absolutely clear that technicalities should not stop us from proceeding on the substantive business. Whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale decided to operate on the older format – and I appreciate why Sen. Murungi is making that distinction - because he fears that he may have lost the job again.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to appeal to the Senator for Kakamega to expand his request because this similar exercise was carried out in Nairobi and Mombasa and there have been questions raised about the effectiveness of the registries after that exercise was carried out. He should include an audit on the registries that have already been modernized or digitalized in Mombasa and Nairobi to see whether there was actually an impact because the public who have been going there and lining up have been complaining in the media that they have not seen any significant change.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised, I want the Chairperson of the Committee in responding to this Statement to tell us whether you need to send trucks to a registry far away in Kakamega or wherever to lift documents to Nairobi or wherever to reorganize the registry. Why was a similar exercise not carried out in Lamu, Malindi and Mombasa? Just to reinforce the point of Sen. Billow, what is the efficacy of this exercise when we saw right in Parliament, that when the Minister appeared before the Committee on the current land saga her answer was that despite the exercise, she could not raise the file to come to Parliament to answer questions? So what is the efficacy of this exercise?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a requirement that every registry has a strong room. There is a reason because the public needs to have confidence that their documents are being kept well. Now if documents are being moved, I would like the Chairperson to clarify the security measures that are being employed because if it is a truck as Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has mentioned, it means that it is the way you drop sucks in a canter. That simply suggests that, that is not a truck that would have, for example, safety locks or something like that so that we can know that, in fact, the files of Kenyans in respect of their lands are safe. Lastly, Sen. Murungi raised a very important issue which I think we have all forgotten; that there is, indeed, a circular issued by the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development concerning movement of documents. Would I be in order to suggest that even that circular should be produced because this issue concerning lands is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I have seven requests. This is just a Statement being sought, but you want to turn it into a debate. I want to conclude it there because I do not think that there is anything more useful that anybody could add that is not known. You have talked about it being expanded to the rest of the country, the security of the documents and whether that should be done the way it is done. In my view, that should cover all the issues.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, listening to all the contributions, would it be in order to conclude these discussions by asking the Minister herself to appear before the relevant Committee or a Committee of the Whole and address herself to these questions rather than for us to go through this long route of tasking my dear friend, Sen. Kivuti to go and get information, bring it here and some more questions will be asked, I think we would rather get the word from the horse’s mouth.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we all know, since the new dispensation came, Chairpersons have been doing a very tedious job of being messengers. You ask questions which are very relevant to the welfare of Kenyans, you go and bring an answer here and it is not quite conclusive. I am very convinced that since this matter is quite urgent, it may make a lot of sense if either we got the Cabinet Secretary to appear before the Committee and we invite all Senators who are interested to be present or we make a Committee of the Whole. In fact, when we were dealing with the matters of Konza City, we had Senators coming to the meetings. When we were dealing with the matter of land in Trans Nzoia, we also had Senators attending. Whichever way you rule, I think it is relevant.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You had guided me on the issue of decorum on how I refer to the Cabinet Secretary. I am sorry to remind you that the time I pronounced her name first, that time you were consulting. I never referred to her in any degrading manner. I would like to confirm to Sen. Murungi that, lucky him, that they were consulted and informed in Meru. However, as far as Kakamega is concerned, not the Governor, the Senator, the Members of Parliament, the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) or the liguru; village elder was consulted.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, on both you are dead wrong. On the first one, it does not matter because the name of a person or a title is not like you have a long name and then you abbreviate it. In subsequent utilization of that, you use abbreviation because you abbreviated it, in the first instance. You do not abbreviate people’s names or titles. In any case, the only time maybe you want to use the shorter one is now when you use the surname and that will also have a Mr. a Mrs. or some title. However, in your subsequent one, you referred to her as Ngilu. You used one name and you know very well that there are many Ngilu’s from Ukambani and elsewhere in the Republic. I did not want you to confuse the good Senators from Machakos, Makueni and Kitui wondering which one of theirs is lucky to have been there. I still maintain what I said and that is really important. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. It is in relation to the failure of the Cabinet Secretary for Education to set up a Universities Fund in accordance with the Universities Act. I do not see the Chairman here. I do not know if there are any Members of the Committee here because the Statement is expected today.

Vice Chairperson or any other Member!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a number of Statements pending. There is a particular one regarding the recruitment of the Kenya Defence Forces in Nyandarua County which is still urgent. It is overdue. Can we hear from the Chairperson?

Order, Members! Sen. Wetangula had sought one.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you. Indeed, I am a Member of this Committee. However, I am afraid I have not consulted and have no information, first, on the whereabouts of the Chairperson and, secondly, on the item which is being discussed. However, let me undertake to look for the Chairperson and inform him of the necessity to give this answer in the next sitting.

Now that you are here, can you get it delivered tomorrow, either by your Chairperson, or in his absence, you will take the responsibility?

Thank you, Mr. speaker, Sir, I will try to do that knowing that he was aware that he was supposed to give this answer. The answer should be somewhere. I will attempt to get him to know that the answer is required in the House.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, the word “tomorrow” is important to us.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is Thursday, afternoon.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you. I am sorry to say again that this Statement has not reached us up to now despite the fact that we have requested them to hurry up.

Hon. Senators, our Chairpersons are feeling frustrated and I share in that. Last week, we had many of those Statements not being responded to. I wrote to all the Cabinet Secretaries to ensure that all the outstanding Statements are availed to the House. We are stuck and I do not see the Senate Majority Leader here. The Deputy Senate Majority Leader, what is the position in Government about the failure by Cabinet Secretaries to cooperate with Chairpersons of Committees? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought they have been cooperating, but I will undertake to find out why in this case they have not delivered some of the Statements. Tomorrow, we will report back.

Please, do it tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Deputy Senate Majority Leader confirms tomorrow to this House, can he also give a reasonable explanation why the Chairpersons in the “Lower House” seem not to have problems with the Cabinet Secretaries while Chairpersons in this House seem to have the challenge? Is it a problem directed to this House or is it generally the entire Parliament?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you kindly ordered that the lists of the Statements which are pending be printed and it was done in the last sitting. It was very useful. On it, certain Ministries were, obviously, quite notorious for not bringing any. A case in point is the Ministry of Defence. I would request further that whereas and when that list is published or printed, could we also have the dates when the Statement was requested. This is because, at some stage, it would also be useful to organize a round table with the Cabinet Secretaries so that they are also aware that some of these Statements are long overdue and whatever issues Members had are still pending.

We have all that information. It is just that we did not put it with the rest of team. We have what we call a Statements tracker which gives details such as requested by, from, date requested and request for deferment. We follow all of them. There is a booklet which we will avail to the Deputy Senate Majority Leader. What is it Sen. Obure.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have two responses to make on behalf of the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation.

What we had agreed as the Rules and Business Committee (RBC), for this session, we will regulate the Statements. Unless your Statement appears on the Order Paper, then you have no business bringing it to the plenary. You need to consult me then I will fast track because we must prioritise given the time constraints. Two, if the Members are not there, just forget, do not even mention them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir it was there yesterday, but unfortunately, you made the ruling that we proceed with other business.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in line with your ruling, perhaps, it will be useful for me to follow it up with the Senate Majority Leader if we can even go beyond the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Keter! I think you and your leader need to appreciate how we work in this House. In yesterday’s Order Paper, we listed all outstanding Statements as requested by Members last week. Two, we have something called HANSARD which should help you anywhere in the world even when you are away. I do not want to use the other famous terminology. For both of you to come here and say that you did not know what transpired in the House is no excuse whatsoever, completely none. However, we will assist you because the documents are ready. It is just for you to pick each and every one of them, including when it was sought, when it was supposed to be here, when it was deferred and how many times, including the specific dates. Members, come ready to interrogate the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy. Let us terminate this business and move on to the next order.

Who was on the Floor? Hon. Senators, the Floor is open. The Question had been proposed. Let me recognize Sen. Muriuki. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to say a few words in support of this important Bill. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the essence of this Bill, among other things, is to create the board which will mind the affairs of fertilizers on behalf of farmers. Those of us – and I think we are the majority – from agricultural areas have major problems in the production of crops. If you consider most of the crops and the statistics of production per acre, you will find that most of the production per acre or hectare has been going down over the years. Part of the reason for this is that supply of fertilizer has been very haphazard, in terms of actual availability, quality and type. Very often, farmers do not even know which fertilizer to apply where. The moment you talk about fertilizer, farmers will rush and buy whichever is being sold. Because of lack of an organization whose function is principally to guide and mind the affairs of fertilizers, you will find very often that farmers will go for maybe what they can afford. In the absence of any guidance, you will find that, that fertilizer does not work or do not work as intended and the production goes down. The end result is that farmers have a very hard time getting returns out of their sweat. Many of them give up. Worse still sometimes farmers give up on some crops thinking that they have no returns. They move to another crop and face the same circle of frustration. Eventually, farming becomes a very risky business, especially for people who come from outside the farming sector and want to invest in it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Bill touches on animal feeds and it is the same circle of frustrations again. At the moment, very many investors are now attempting to go into farming, because it is slightly better off than it has been in the past years. This is because the country is opening up in terms of roads, water and so on. In Nyandarua where I come from, the main activity other than potato farming, is dairy farming. Dairy farming is very frustrating when it comes to animal feeds because there is no one to guide farmers. The expertise which reaches the farmers as to what kind of animal feeds they need to feed particular animals for a particular kind of production is absent. Every farmer then tends to end up doing their own experiment on which animal feed to use, without any guidance. What is missing as far as the animal feeds are concerned are the standards. You do not know which standard is good for what level of production. Therefore, farmers quite often are duped to pay more, thinking that the one which has come recently is better than the earlier one. After a few months or seasons, they will find that, that is not the case. They give up. The end result is a circle of frustrations by the new investors in the farming world. The poor Kenyans have no choice because they do not have money to invest. They maintain the same circle with dwindling returns. The Bill also touches on pesticides which we use to deal with pests and so on. Again, it is the same circle as the fertilizers and animal feeds. It is easy to identify some pesticides. However, it is very difficult to know which one to use. Most farmers go for what others are using. The board in this Bill will only deal with fertilizer. However, in my view, it would have been very useful if it would be made in such a way to encompass all the three principle components of the farming inputs, so that farmers are well catered for. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Peter Anyang’ Nyong’o

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand really not to support the Bill, but to support the aim of the Bill, for very good reasons. One, I understand that the Government is in the process of rationalization of parastatals. The original objective of the rationalization of parastatals, if I understand it, was to make fewer parastatals, so that they are run more efficiently and cost effectively. However, the exercise has not really meant the objectives, so, we are in kind of quodrum where by the exercise of rationalization of parastatals seems to stand in limbo and it is really hurting privatization. If I remember from our days of the economic recovery strategy for wealth and employment creation, our idea was to make sure that the State works to stimulate investments in the economy, both by the State and the private sector. Looking back into history, the era in which parastatals blossomed in this country, was in 1960s, soon after Independence. They blossomed on the fact that they were aimed at doing two things, one, was to make it possible for the Kenyan State at Independence time to intervene effectively in the economy so as to promote investments and Africanization. When the State corporations were first established in the 1960s and quite to some extent into the 1970s, they were very effective and efficient. They stimulated this economy quite a bit and the era of very fast economic growth in this country was really between the 1963, 1972 and quite a bit of the 1970s. I say 1972 because in 1973, we had the oil crisis and that affected the growth of this economy quite substantially, indeed, the growth most of third world economies. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what is important about parastatals, during the first ten years of Independence and, indeed, the civil service, was their efficiency. They were professionally run and they met their objectives. The development of agriculture in this country could not have occurred without the intervention of such bodies, like the Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) and the Agricultural Investment Bank (AIB). The moment parastatals started to be mismanaged and to serve individual interests, then, they started going down. When I was the Chairman of Public Investment The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Bill. I want to take this opportunity to thank our deputy Chairperson, Sen. Ndiema, who moved it on behalf of our Committee. I also want to thank all the contributors to the Motion, including my friend, Sen. Anyang’- Nyong’o of Kisumu County. Allow me also finally thank the National Assembly for complying with Article 110(3) of the Constitution which requires that all Bills which concern counties be brought to this House after they are debated in the National Assembly for our debate and concurrence. There has been a serious tug of war between the National Assembly and this House as to what Bills concern counties and which ones do not. I think that debate is now being dissolved and I was very happy to read in the press the Speaker of the National Assembly calling for dialogue between the National Assembly and the Senate. He talked of creation of a technical committee which will be looking at the Bills to determine which ones concern counties and which ones do not so that it is not a personal confrontational between our Speaker and himself. That is a very welcome move. The technical committee of experts between our House and the National should be set up as quickly as possible to solve all the issues. I want to welcome that initiative and also welcome the message from the Speaker of the National Assembly. I believe that our own Speaker will have a cup of tea with him so that we do not go back to where we were last year. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at the very outset, let me say that I support the creation of this Bill which will regulate fertilisers and animal foodstuff in this country. We do know that there is a policy by the Government to try to amalgamate and consolidate as many parastatals as possible and discouraging creation of new parastatals. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. One of the greatest challenges to crop agriculture in this country since Independence is the availability and supply of fertiliser to farmers. I, therefore, thank the Mover of this Bill and the Senator who seconded it. It is my hope that the amendments being proposed will go some way in providing a solution to the big fertiliser question which, unfortunately, no successive regime since the 1960s has resolved. The size of high potential productive and arable land in Kenya is limited. This also applies to areas which receive reasonable amounts of rainfall. Available arable land is, therefore, put into production repeatedly every planting season. In my county, Kisii County, the little portion of arable land available is the only option available for the survival of families. This is their livelihood. Inevitably, therefore, every piece of arable land is put into use at every planting season. In a situation such as ours, Kisii County, application of fertiliser is therefore a compelling necessity. However, what is the experience of farmers at that level? At every planting season, farmers go out there looking for fertiliser and every important ingredient for farming considering our situation. That fertiliser is not available at the beginning of the planting season. When some forms of fertiliser are available at some point, the recommended variety is not available. The right variety finally surfaces too late and long after the planting season. Fertiliser in this country is associated with scarcity, poor distribution, high and unaffordable prices, misrepresentation of brands and outright cheating. The farmer is cheated, at times, by middlemen and by suppliers. All these have contributed to low productivity, poor yields and perpetual frustration to farmers. Lack of fertiliser or inability to obtain it at the right time has also contributed to the country’s record of food scarcity and insufficiency at family level. This has in many ways undermined efforts being made at achieving food security nationally. Failure to supply fertiliser to farmers at the right time and at affordable price is a major cause of increasing levels of poverty in this country. Let us look at the tea industry which we have been talking about lately. One of the reasons why tea farmers around the country, particularly small-scale tea farmers are frustrated is because of the cost of fertiliser and availability of the ingredient. The prices are far too high and many times, this leaves farmers badly positioned. If you look at what is going on today, in the small scale tea buying areas, you will see that some fertiliser was supplied in advance to farmers in the hope that when they are ultimately paid their bonuses or second payments, they would repay. They cannot pay because their earnings were far too low. Therefore, the cost of fertiliser should be a matter of great concern to all of us. Some of the functions of the proposed Board are to advice the Cabinet Secretary in matters related to fertiliser and the relative priority. This is okay. We are giving them a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. This is a Bill from the “Lower House” and it is coming to this Chamber for concurrence. I did not listen to the Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries speak because I got in at the tail end. I hope that he will do some clean up at the Committee Stage especially on the composition of the members of the Board and the representations. In this country, the farmer competes very closely with the policemen and teachers as the most neglected segment of our society. The farmer toils and moils from morning to evening and at the end of the day when the farmer has a bumper harvest, there is no market. When the crops fail, farmers cannot afford food. One may remember that the African Union (AU) in the Maputo Declaration obligated African Governments to dedicate a minimum of 10 per cent of their aggregate national budgets to agriculture. Only one country has achieved that, during the time of President Bingu wa Mutharika in Malawi. In many countries, we have become captives of the World Bank, International Monetary Fund (IMF) and all those financial institutions that keep on telling us; no subsidies to the farmer or free market economy. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, most capitalist countries in the world that spread the gospel of free market economy like America subsidize their farmers heavily. In the European Union (EU), some farmers are paid money not to till a portion of their land in one season. It is dangerous for African countries to continue swallowing the poison pill from the World Bank, IMF and other institutions. This is because Mwalimu Nyerere once said “look at these Chinese, that are a billion plus, if they can feed themselves and give us some food, then there is something to learn from them.” Very simple but very fundamental. We can feed Kenya. Kenya has for a long time been priding itself as an agricultural country. However, an agricultural country without any sound agricultural policy is very bad for any country. In the colonial days running up to the days when governments of the day destroyed public institutions, farmers used to have availability of services from the Kenya Farmers Association (KFA), the National Cereals and Produce The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Read Wambora!

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for Meru is reminding me of the Wambora case which had a germination of 5 per cent after pumping in Kshs100 million.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): He reminded you in an unorthodox manner!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need to take care of the protection of the farmer against these crooked traders. The problem with Kenyan traders and the majority of them is that they are very keen to make quick bucks and they will go to any length. It is not even the traders; it is actually the Kenyan psyche to the extent that if you get involved in an accident on the highway, there are good Samaritans who come to help you out of the accident and there are crooks who come to strip you even when you are dying. They inspect your pockets while you are bleeding profusely. With devolution, I think and I want to encourage the distinguished Senator for Meru who is privileged to chair the Committee of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries that I believe this is one of the most critical committees on devolution. If counties cannot feed themselves, they are unlikely to go anywhere. I would want the Committee to even advise the counties that if a county, for example, Trans Nzoia that produces a third of the maize cereal of this country, can be able to enter into arrangements and agreements with counties with serious food deficits like Turkana, Wajir and Mandera, so that when they harvest their crop, instead of those with food deficits wasting money paying three to four times the market value of food, they should engage with Trans Nzoia and request to be given, for example, as Turkana, 20,000 bags of maize. Then they budget for it and they harvest, deliver it to Turkana and they pay them. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this will happen if the farmer is helped to produce. Kenyans should never fall in the trap called “ Soko Huru” . Soko Huru is what has The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wetangula, on a light note, can you stop being vulgar in your language? You can proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thought the Chair was appreciating what I was saying because it is a fact; that you have a pedigree cow and you cannot afford AI.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The bulls do not help themselves on cows. It is only humans that can do that.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Government must come back to help and support the farmer. Looking at the functions of the Board, they include: Advice the Cabinet Secretary on matters relating to fertiliser and advice on the relative priorities to be given to the implementation of specific measures. It also includes managing importation. What the Bill does not say is whether the Board will import or only formulate policies for importation. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it also says that the Board will ensure that there are adequate retail outlets. This is very important. Even if you have mega importers like Mea Limited and so on, then you can obligate them to make sure that there are retail outlets in Migori, Laikipia and everywhere else so that when the farmer needs fertiliser, they can access it and it is affordable. Again, I would like to inform the Chairman of the Committee, who I believe will be probably bringing some amendments to the Bill, that we need a provision for rules to be formulated so that when there is a subsidy, it does not turn into a windfall.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Muthama! The rules of the House dictate that only one Member can be on his feet at any particular time.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is so that the benefits of subsidy do not become cash cows for traders. If there is a subsidy, it must be a true subsidy. We will be encouraging the importers to benefit from the economies of scale so that you do not have briefcase carriers walking and roaming from office to office pretending to be selling fertiliser when, in fact, they have no fertiliser to sell. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this particular Bill. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I come from Nakuru County where agriculture is the main activity. I am also a farmer. Therefore, as I contribute to this Bill, I will give it my best shot. Issues touching on fertiliser in this country and their implications to farmers are very well known. It is very well known that any late harvests in this country are normally attributed to late supply of fertiliser. Currently, in Kitale, there are serious issues touching on farmers’ harvests. These issues are also in Nakuru but we all know that Kitale is our breadbasket. Today, a bag of maize is going for Kshs1,000. This Board should have been formed a long time ago. All along, most farmers in Kenya, including me, thought that there was a board in the Ministry that was handling issues touching on fertiliser. The fact that the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) was left alone to manage issues touching on fertiliser is in itself a challenge to the Board itself. It is known that there is not a single year that fertiliser has been supplied to farmers on time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this morning, I was discussing with some farmers who told me that it is raining and they do not know what to do, because their maize is in the fields. They are now being forced to sell maize at throwaway prices. This is attributed to the late supply of fertiliser. Next year very few farmers will afford fertiliser even if it will be subsidized. This is because the fertiliser that was imported before was rumoured to be the source of the disease that maize has been suffering from. This has affected farmers a lot. The Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has taken time to address this particular disease. Therefore, the fact that the Senate Majority Leader came up with this Bill, means that someone was sleeping on his or her job. Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would, therefore, request the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries directs the NCPB to open its depots immediately and give prices that can cushion our farmers against the losses that they are now incurring. We also discussed issues touching on the harvesting of maize. At this particular time of the year, being the harvesting period of maize in the breadbasket and many other areas of this country, farmers have been suffering. The Government is supposed to approach developed countries, like Germany, so that they can give us machines that can harvest maize very fast during the rainy season. This will ensure that farmers do not incur losses. Today, farmers are sitting in their houses and watching their produce destroyed by rain. It is important to know that anytime we import maize into this country, it is a challenge to us, leaders. We have fertile land, but managing whatever is happening on that land is a challenge that we should be ready to overcome. The fact that this Bill originated from the National Assembly, we should look at it very critically. We can amend the Bill, so that the Board does not deal only with fertiliser. We can add seeds, like the Senate Minority Leader has said here, and other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to oppose this Bill. When I look at the contents of this Bill, it does not support devolution. At this time in this country, we want to decentralize our operations and empower the counties with enough power so that they can run their affairs. We now want to centralize these operations by creating a board. Madam Temporary Speaker, when I look at the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, it is very clear, that the counties have been given the functions of agriculture. I know that the control of fertiliser is one of those functions. I do not see why we should take the work of the counties, where they are supposed to be controlling the management of agriculture and then create another board which is in turn going to control, regulate and distribute fertiliser. Is this not another way of corruption being brought back to the door? Is this not another way of the fat cats, who we know are many in the fertiliser business, who now want to find another way to create cartels by creating another board? Madam Temporary Speaker, I am just wondering. In this country, how many boards will we create for us to become efficient? Instead of reducing the number of boards in this country, we now want to create another board and give it a lot of power. It actually horrifies me when I look at Section 2(d) which has been proposed here, and I want to quote it. It says: “This Board will manage the importation and the distribution of fertiliser.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators. Can we, please, listen to Sen. Ong’era in some kind of silence?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am sure that hon. Members will be very pleased to know that devolution is being supported and not allowing us back to horrible days of centralization of services in this country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, as I was saying, research and policy matters should be run by the national Government. It is not matters that require a board to be established so that it can determine how fertiliser can be distributed. Madam Temporary Speaker, this is the age of free economies in this country. We need to give the county governments free wings to fly. We need to give them enough time for them to know how they can source for fertiliser. If they need to develop fertiliser factories in their own counties according to their situations, then they can determine that. This fact that we want, all the time, to control and regulate them, we will not give them sufficient wings to develop new policies. With those few remarks, I oppose.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand here to oppose this Bill. I have very good reasons to do so. Some of us have a great and long experience on certain operations in this country. When I look at this Bill, it is taking us back to where we are coming from. We had parastatals which were a bottomless hole for sacking and squandering public funds. The international community, to be able to assist this country, had to force this country to privatize some of the parastatals. Madam Temporary Speaker, in my county, I have farmers who grow coffee. There was a board known as Coffee Board of Kenya. Today, it exists by name but it has never benefited any Kenyan in all areas of this country where coffee is grown. What it did at the end of the day is to use the powers conferred to that board to license straight dealers and thieves who started, not only buying the coffee from the farmers, but by sending and recruiting thieves in the villages to harvest coffee at night and sell to them in the morning. With that, coffee does not count at any given time in the areas where it is grown. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this chance. I want to start by thanking the Speaker of the National Assembly for finally confirming that bicameralism in legislation can work. I also want to thank hon. Chris Wamalwa who is the brainchild of this Bill. However, I now want to confirm that I am rising to oppose the Bill. Maybe because hon. Chris Wamalwa was not there in the last Parliament, he might not be knowing the history of fertiliser in this country. In 2009, I had an opportunity to move a censure Motion against a Cabinet Minister on matters of National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) and one of the players was the abuse of the importation of fertiliser. I would not be surprised if some of the mandarins I pursued at that time might be coming back wearing a wolf’s skin telling us that they are sheep. Since hon. Chris Wamalwa was not there in the last Parliament, he would be forgiven for not knowing that what he is doing is creating another parastatal. We departed from this in the last Parliament when we created this Act that was signed by President Kibaki in January, 2013. It was one of the Acts he actually signed into law. This was the Agriculture, Fisheries and Foods Authority Act. Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to take the House to what that Act said. It said that this authority shall be the successor to the institutions established by the Act that had been repealed namely; the Crops Act, the Livestock Act and the Fisheries Act. What these Acts had done is that they had created all manner of boards; Kenya Sugar Board, Coffee Board of Kenya, Cotton Board of Kenya and so on. All these boards were in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker for this opportunity. I also stand to oppose this Bill. I associate myself with comments, particularly of the previous The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. I rise to oppose this Bill for varied reasons. I will not repeat what my fellow Senators have said. In the first instance I was reluctant to even contribute because I did not understand the reasons why this amendment was brought. Fortunately, I have now in my hands the memorandum, objects and reasons which I am surprised are not part of what the Senate has been provided; to understand what hon. Chris Wamalwa had in mind. First, the reason cited here is that the principal object of this Bill is to amend the Fertiliser and Animal Foodstuffs Act, to establish a Fertiliser Board which will be charged with the responsibility of establishing and managing fertiliser plants in Kenya, management of purchase, sale and distribution of fertiliser and farm inputs in a timely manner. The Bill is informed by the fact that the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) handles distribution of fertiliser, although this is not part of the core mandate. This situation, as it prevails, has resulted in the delay and deliver of fertiliser to farmers with the attendant consequences of affecting food security in the country. That object alone is good enough for this Senate to reject this Bill in totality. This is simply because the NCPB has failed, we now create another board. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like to contribute to the Debate on this Bill. I would like to state, from the outset, that I oppose the Bill as it is. Basically, this is against the spirit of devolution and liberalization of the Kenyan market. The main object of this Bill is formation of a Fertiliser Board of Kenya which is supposed to control everything that has to do with fertiliser right from production, distribution, management of importation and distribution. The Board will be establishing units at the county level. I have also learnt from previous speaker that the object of the Bill is to cure the failure of the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB). However, I thought that the curing of that failure which is to delay distribution was to liberalise the whole process. The process will allow Kenyans to import and to distribute. That will be a demand driven process. This is also against the spirit of devolution as it has been cited by other Members. The national Government only deals with agricultural policies while crop and animal husbandry is a function of the county governments. Fertiliser is an input in that production. So, they should be the ones to import and distribute it. Basically, this is a demand driven process. Once you remove the roadblocks like the boards, Kenyans will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am seeking your guidance, in view of the fact that there are no more contributors to this Motion.

Senator, how did you know and yet you do not have the benefit of my screen? Anyway, it is true that there are no more requests. However, I was wondering how you got to know that since you do not have this benefit. What is your request?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know whether I have time to say what I intend to say since the clock is ticking.

Unfortunately, you did not manage to conclude your statement. This is a Bill and going by the interests and the number of Senators who want to contribute to the Bill, I assure you that it will be in the Order Paper tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 4th December, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.