Hon. Senators, I have the following Communication to make. You recall at the sitting of Wednesday, 18th February, 2015, the Senate Minority Leader, Sen. Wetangula, rose on a point of order seeking the guidance of the Speaker on the matter of the formation of the Joint Committee of the Senate and the National Assembly to vet the nominee for the position of Inspector-General of the National Police Service. In particular, Sen. Wetangula sought clarification on whether the Senate had passed a resolution for the establishment of the Joint Committee. The Senator further raised concerns on the procedure to be followed by the Joint Committee and whether the Fourth Schedule to the Standing Orders which sets out the rules for Joint Committees of Parliament would apply to the proceedings of the Joint Committee. Sen. Wetangula took the view that each House, through its respective Committee, ought to have vetted the nominee and the procedure for mediation should thereafter have been applied if the House were to arrive at a different conclusion on the suitability or otherwise of the nominee. Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Orengo also rose on points of order and made contributions on the matter. In supporting Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Orengo observed that as a matter of constitutional design, the perspectives of the two Houses while vetting the nominee would be different and it would therefore be important that each House separately vets the nominee. Hon. Senators, as you will recall on Tuesday, 17th February, 2015, I conveyed to the Senate a Message from His Excellency the President on the nomination of Mr. Joseph The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sorry that we were listening to you at the Bar. I remember yesterday Sen. Wetangula raised the important issue of the need for there to be a resolution of this House to support your decision that there be a joint committee. You have not talked about it and I think it would be nice and procedural if such a resolution, indeed, were to support the decision that the two Speakers have made. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support that Communication. When we look at our Constitution, indeed, the word “Parliament” appears 358 times. Therefore, we need to fast-track some of these processes. It would benefit this House if we could continue having joint meetings. That is how we can harmonize this Parliament. I support you.

Sen. Elachi, a Communication from the Chair does not require support or opposition.

Let me respond to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. First, on the issue of a joint resolution, as I said, this matter is about 14 days. It is a matter where Parliament – both Houses – need to be involved. I have given the urgency in terms of the limited 14 days period so that our Committee which was responsible and the Committee of the National Assembly, which was responsible, could actually meet. I felt that it did not require a resolution, because it was already going to the respective Committees of the Houses. We are not constituting new Committees. Secondly, on the 21 days, that is the period that I am giving the Committee in terms of taking the matter forward for further interrogation. It is not affecting the 14 days period of vetting the existing nominee. It is an admission that given the need for Parliament to work within 14 days in the bicameral system, this was a one-off thing given the circumstances. I have stated that it is not a precedent. We could have gone even the other way, if we had the time.

Sen. Khaniri, why are you protesting when I have not rejected your point of order?

I am not protesting, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am just getting worried because we do not want this House or the House of Parliament to act in futility. In this era where Kenyans are very enlightened, we risk that a Kenyan somewhere will rush to court; that we have acted against our own Standing Orders and the Constitution. In my opinion, this House coming up with a resolution to form a Joint Committee is a matter of one day. We can do this one afternoon and resolve to have a Joint Committee. This is because the two Committees on security from the two Houses, sitting together, constitute what we call a Joint Committee. We do not want to act in futility. What will be wrong if we took one afternoon – even today or tomorrow morning – and come up with a resolution? Thank you.

The last one, Sen. Wetangula. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I neither stand to challenge your ruling, which I did not hear in full, nor to support it. But I want to point out, first by joining my distinguished kid brother, Sen. Khaniri, in what he has said. Under our Standing Orders there are only two Joint Committees. Any other Joint Committees can only be established by a resolution of the House.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I am on a point of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with a lot of respect to my learned colleague and friend, Sen. Wetangula, my view – I said this having given it due consideration – is that you are now functus officio in this matter. You have made a final ruling and said what you have to say about this matter. I think reopening it is just going to prolong this issue unnecessarily. This is because the points of order being raised now can only be with a view to making you rescind or change your decision. You have made a decision and even if we continue here until 4.00 p.m., I take the view that you, being

, it does not help us. I do not believe that you are going to rescind your decision.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, you are not functus officio on this matter. You never at any one time said that you were making a ruling with finality. We know you as a Speaker with a clear but flexible mind. You are capable of giving way to new issues as they arise. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is steps and processes like this that killed the first Senate in this country; by slowly but surely making it look like a second Chamber. It became irrelevant until it was done away with. It is the small bits and pieces that nibble away the stone. I want to encourage you to be a precedent making Speaker; that even after we have all gone, either by old age, attrition or wananchi telling us to go out of this Chamber, you will be remembered as a precedent setting Speaker. That the Inspector-General (IG) must be vetted within 14 days is neither here nor there. In fact, the gentleman was nominated about two months ago. If the two Speakers desired to have resolutions to have a Joint Committee, we would have done so. We can be recalled. We were recalled when we were on recess. We are just demonstrating our fidelity to our Standing Orders, law and Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, listening to some of the divergent opinions which my colleagues are entitled to, you can see some feat of impatience and irritation; that we are wasting time or standing in the way of an appointment. Nobody here has any personal interest in the nominees to this position. If he is vetted and found fit to hold office, we will say that we have an IG who will serve the whole country. This country has serious challenges that need very careful steps in arriving at who is going to be our next IG. I would not want to encourage this House to start wishing away, even the little that the Constitution has given us, and subordinate ourselves to the National Assembly. It will not be right. Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me finish by pointing out that we as a House and the Committee chaired by the distinguished Senator for Garissa, who is now resting his eyes, reserve to observe the Constitution, law and Standing Orders and say: If it has been given to the National Assembly to vet, let them vet. Then, the challenges will follow in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Wetangula, I made a Communication on Tuesday which was final. When you sought another Statement yesterday, I indulged you in appreciation of your minority leadership status. I listen and allow positions, but for you to come and tell me that the 14 days is neither here nor there, and you are still committed to the fidelity of the law, is a contradiction. Section 8(1) of the Public Appointments, Parliamentary Approval Act 2011, states:- “Unless otherwise provided in any law, a Committee shall consider a nomination and table its report in the relevant House for debate and decision within 14 days from the date on which the notification of nomination was given in accordance with Section 5” Our understanding of the notification is the day when we read the Message from the President to the House. That is when those days started rolling. Secondly, I do not think that we are subjecting ourselves to another House. The National Assembly could as well just feel the same way you are feeling. I do not see why all of a sudden you think that way. Since, we are in a joint session with them, just as we do in some joint

and Committees that are already established, one House is ceding to another House. I take the view that; one, these things were not provided for, we thought that this is the best way to do it and I have admitted that it can go either way. It is because of the circumstances which I have elaborated. Two, we have taken sufficient safeguards in terms of one House maybe lording over the other. So, we said that as contemplated under Rule 9(6) of the Joint Rules:- “Unless a decision is reached by consensus, any vote to be taken in the joint sitting of the Committee shall be by separate Houses” So, we have already ensured that each House can actually transact its own business. It just looks ridiculous that one nominee comes to this House’s Committee and then goes to the other one, and may be you ask same questions; given the time we are talking about. Finally, you will be pleased to know that your distinguished Chairman, the Senator for Garissa, who is not resting his eyes, has actually been accepted by the Joint Committee to be the substantive Chairperson. So, Our House is well covered. For avoidance of doubt in future, for any opportunities that we will create, I have now directed the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, chaired by the eminent, Sen. Wako, to see what you can do in terms of the future. I really seek your understanding. Next Order! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement under Standing Order No. 45 from the Chairperson of the Committee on Health about the current cholera outbreak in Kenya. In the Statement, I would like to know:- (1) Whether he is aware that Migori County has been hit by a cholera epidemic. (2) How many other counties, by name, have been hit by the same? (3) The number of patients that have been affected so far, hospitalized and from which areas. (4) Could he also tell us the number of fatalities of the scourge? (5) The level and magnitude of interventions taken so far by the National and county governments in terms of money and resources; and, (6) What measures the Government is taking to prevent the recurrence of the epidemic.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very important question because the outbreak is ongoing and even in the daily newspapers we read that even yesterday, four people died. I would like to give this response on Tuesday afternoon if possible.

Is that Tuesday next week?

Yes, Tuesday next week.

Good. It is so ordered. PROPOSED ALLOCATION OF LAND AT KANYONYONI IN KITUI COUNTY TO THE NIS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to raise two issues; one is the same one I raised on Tuesday. Mr. Speaker promised to take action in relation to the land in Kanyonyoni in Kitui County, which as I said, was being taken by the Government, National Security Intelligence (NIS). You promised to take action to ensure that nothing happens, in view of the report that was produced by the Committee on Land and Natural Resources. So, I will be seeking your position on this matter and if you have any progress report to make to the House as promised. STATUS OF CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMME Secondly, I would like to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. In this Statement, I would like to ask the Chairperson to give this House:- (1) The number of senior citizens who are receiving cash transfers in Kenya. (2) To give a breakdown of the number of recipients of the cash transfer for each county with the corresponding populations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On the first one, Sen. Musila, it is not the responsibility of the Chairperson to bring Statements. So, try to leave the Chairperson out of it. The Speaker was only willing to assist the Chairperson of the Committee in order to get a Statement that is acceptable to you. So, the first instance should be the Chairperson; when he fails or when he is unable, then you can come to me for assistance. I am yet to be approached. The second one, Chairperson!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to commit on behalf of my Chairperson that we will give that information in two weeks time, if it is agreeable with the Senator.

Two weeks time is fairly the standard practice. Sen. Musila!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate that and I am willing to wait until then. But with your indulgence, I want to emphasize the importance of this Statement, not only to the County of Kitui, but to the Republic. Today, I have heard of demonstrations in Kericho on the same issue and, therefore, the Chairperson may wish to take this matter very seriously. On the other issue of the land, the HANSARD will bear me out that on the 3rd of December, 2014, when we gave you the gravity of the matter, you undertook to ensure that within that period of December until the time Parliament came back, no action was taken. I told you that I had information that the Ministry or the Commission on Lands was in the process of issuing a title. In which case, if that happened, then we will have no recourse. Then on Tuesday, I raised the same issue and I recollect you said that you will take action to prevent the Commission from taking action on the issue of the title as this House deliberates on this matter. This is a very grave matter, as I said earlier; we have ranchers on the ground and they are probably being evicted because the Government is grabbing the land.

Where is the Chairperson for the Committee on Land and Natural Resources?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, maybe just to refresh your mind on this issue and give you the chronology of events, because I think as the Chairperson, we have disposed of this matter. We have done what was given to us to be done and we tabled a Report, which is now the property of the House. So, as the Chairperson, I do not think we have any other thing to do on this matter because we, first of all brought a Statement which the hon. Member said was unsatisfactory. You then ordered us to look deeper into the matter, which we did and, as I said on Tuesday, we invited all the stakeholders involved in this matter and, thereafter, we made a very comprehensive report, which we tabled here. So, now, the issue of the implementation of our report is beyond the mandate of my Committee. We have done our bit.

That is correct. Sen. ole Ndiema! . The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding supply of Di-ammonium Phosphate (DAP) fertilizer by the Government. The Statement should:- (1) Specify how much DAP fertilizer the Government has supplied this year for sale to farmers at subsidized prices. (2) State the amount of fertilizer that has been allocated to each county and indicate how much has been supplied to each National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) depot. (3) State if the Ministry is aware that no DAP fertilizer has been supplied to the Kitale NCPB depot in Trans Nzoia County and that any further delay will adversely affect crop production since the planting season commences this month; and, (4) Explain what the Government is doing to address the situation and ensure that adequate DAP fertilizer is made available to farmers in Trans Nzoia.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to ride on that important request for a Statement by the distinguished Senator for Trans Nzoia. In addition to the information sought, I want the Committee Chairperson to tell the House why the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries always waits until the planting season is over before they avail the fertilizer to the farmers. Secondly, why does the same Ministry take that fertilizer to the NCPB and allow unscrupulous middlemen to go and buy the same fertilizer as if they are farmers, stock it and sell it to farmers at a price that the Government is trying to run away from? This has been done year after year. If we are really intending to help the farmers, the fertilizer must be made available to them a month before planting season.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is also important to note that Trans Nzoia is not the only leading maize growing county; we have quite a number of counties in Kenya which grow maize. We need to be told by the Chairperson whether fertilizer will be supplied on time to other counties. Similarly, we should be told about the quantity because the last time, we faced the issue of underweight bags.

Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am being told that, that Statement is being sought by the Vice-Chairperson, who is the Acting Chairperson in the absence of the Chairperson. But by default, I will request that given the nature and the urgency of that matter and the importance to the farmers of this country, including Trans Nzoia – I am sure also in other parts of this country – I want to undertake, on behalf of the Chairperson, that the Statement be answered within one week.

It is so ordered. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek two Statements from two Chairpersons on issues relating to tourism in Kenya. DECLINING NUMBER OF TOURISTS IN KENYA The first Statement is to the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the declining tourism in Kenya. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) State the total approximate revenue that was lost in the year 2013 and 2014 due to decline in tourism. (2) Explain the interventions that the national Government has taken to mitigate unemployment challenges occasioned by the decline of tourism. (3) Explain the steps that the national Government has taken to restore tourism to where it was three years ago. EXPLOITATION OF YOUNG GIRLS BY FOREIGNERS The second Statement is to the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on the exploitation of young girls by foreigners. In the Statement the Chairperson should:- (1) State whether the Government is aware that young girls, especially in the coastal region, are exploited by foreign sex predators, and; (2) Explain the measures that the Government is taking to protect the young girls from exploitation by the predators.

Where are the Chairpersons? Sen. Elachi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I hereby give a Statement---

Respond!

Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I undertake that on behalf of the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we will ensure that we bring the Report in the next two weeks.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also undertake, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare that in two weeks we shall respond to the second part of the Statement. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy on the drop in fuel prices and the significant fall in pump prices in the country and the impact on the matatu industry. In the Statement, I need an explanation on:- (1) The rationale used by the transport industry to set fare charges and how the Government regulates falls. (2) What fuel price drop in Kenya Shillings will be significant enough to guarantee a drop in the fare charges; and, (3) What the national Government is doing or is planning to do to regulate the transport industry so that Kenyans enjoy the benefits accrued from the drop in the fuel prices. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, may I give a brief sample survey on how the drop in fuel pump prices has, in fact, increased the fare prices especially in the Central Business District (CBD). From Ngong to Nairobi town, the previous price of diesel was Kshs109, now the fare has gone up to Kshs100 when the pump price is Kshs75; from Ongata Rongai, when the pump price was Kshs109, the fare was Kshs60, now it is Kshs75 the fare has gone up to Kshs100; when the pump price was Kshs109, the fare charge from Banana to Nairobi used to be Kshs80, now that the pump price is Kshs75 the fare has gone up to Kshs100. I need the Chairperson to explain what they are doing so that all Kenyans can benefit from the drop in global fuel prices.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to the question raised by my colleague, if the Chairperson of the Committee on Energy will also explain how the reduction in fuel prices will impact on the cost of doing business generally and, in particular, on the cost of electricity.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first request is by the Senator for Nyamira who is asking us to regulate the transportation industry. However, my Committee is not in charge of regulating the transport industry; we are in charge of regulating electricity. Therefore, I undertake to answer Sen. Obure’s question in ten days’ time. But, maybe, for the transport industry, it should have been taken to the Committee on Roads and Transportation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was oversight on my side. With your indulgence, you can redirect the question to the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I ----

That is not my business.

Mr. Speaker, Sir I will redirect the Statement. I wanted your indulgence because this was approved by the able Secretariat which you Chair. But I am most obliged and will redirect my question another time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Health regarding the disappearance of twin babies, who were delivered by Ms. Jacinta Wanjiku at Pumwani Maternity Hospital on 6th January, 2015. Specifically the Statement should:- (1) Shed light on the circumstances surrounding the hospital’s allegation that the babies were still born upon delivery or the mother had a normal delivery and heard her children cry. (2) Explain why the hospital gave wrong information that the babies were born dead while the DNA results have since established that the alleged dead babies do not match with those of the parents; Mr. Dedan Kimathi and Mrs. JacintaWanjiku, and, neither do the two babies match; they are of different parents. (3) Confirm if this case is an isolated incident or whether such incidents are prevalent in Pumwani Hospital. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there have been a lot of claims elsewhere that babies do disappear at Pumwani Maternity Hospital and an allegation that there is a cartel that does away with the babies. It is a very serious matter. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter which is also very technical. I would like to be given two weeks to interrogate and get an adequate response.

Did you say two weeks?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

It is so ordered. Next Order! BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 24TH FEBRUARY, 2015

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I would like to present the business of the Senate for the coming week. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, hon. Senators, I would like to present the Senate business for the coming week, Tuesday, 24th February, 2015. The Rules and Business Committee will---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear Sen. Beatrice Elachi say that she is rising under Standing Order No.45 to read to the House the business for the coming week? Is she in order to do so contrary to the provisions of Standing Order No.45 (2) (c) which says that such a Statement shall be made by the Leader of the Majority or in his absence— The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Hon. Ethuro); Order, I will make a ruling on that. Sen. Sang, proceed with your statement. STATUS OF THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT STAFF PENSION SCHEME

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on the County Government Staff Pension Scheme. In the Statement, the Chairperson should state:- (1) Whether he is aware that county governments, through the Council of Governors, the County Public Service Boards, the County Assemblies through the County Assemblies Speakers Forum (CASF) have endorsed the County Pension Fund (CPF) previously known as the Local Authority Pension Fund, Local Authorities Pension Trust (LAPTRUST) as their umbrella pension scheme for their workers? (2) State whether he is aware that Section 132 of the County Governments Act stipulates that county workers must join existing pension schemes. (3) Confirm which one of these two schemes LAPTRUST and Local Authorities Provident Fund (LAPFUND) conform to the provisions of Section 132 of the County Governments Act. (4) State whether he is aware that LAPFUND has been collecting contributions from Members in excess of the amounts permitted by the law and that counties have already complained about this blatant disregard for the law. (5) State whether the Committee has delegated the responsibility of processing the County Retirement Scheme Bill of 2014 referred to the Committee on 6th August, 2014 to the National Treasury. (6) Tell us the steps being taken by the national Government to ensure that the law is respected and that the right of county workers to identify and subscribe to a retirement scheme of their choice without hindrance is respected.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also undertake, again, on behalf of my Committee, considering that this is a matter of great public interest, to give a report in two weeks time.

Order, Sen. Khalwale. I am making reference to you because he raised the matter I want to address. He decided to walk and talk at the same time when I was already on my feet. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has brought to our attention Standing Order No.45 (2) (c). I would like to read it and I hope that the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy are listening. They are the cause of this and we now want to give them a remedy. The Standing Order states:- “The Senate Majority Leader or, in his or her absence the Senate Minority Leader or, in the absence of both the Senate Majority and the Senate Minority The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had intended to be absent. However, I did not succeed to be absent in good time. I would like to apologize for that mix up and thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for being faithful to the rule of law and our Standing Orders. I am guided.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Before the Senate Majority Leader proceeds to make his Statement, could he also respond to Standing Order No.110 (e) and state whether he has abused his privilege in the House?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am also rising on the issue of disorderly conduct. Under Section 110(1)(e) the Senate Majority Leader enjoys extensive privileges in his position but he has actually abused those privileges. I request the Chair to find that he has been grossly disorderly and sanctions be considered. He has gone further and committed a serious breach of these Standing Orders.

Under No. 110(1)(i), the Senate Majority Leader has acted in a way of serious detriment to the dignity and orderly procedure of the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request the Chair to issue sanctions against him and also to remember the Senate Majority Leader did this in connivance with the Chief Whip on the Government side. I request the Chair that those sanctions be visited on Sen. Elachi, for the same reasons.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Murkomen! Just because you assist the Chair does not give you powers to usher Members to contribute. You have to come to this seat in order to do so. This is a mundane matter and I do not think the Senate Majority Leader has abused his office. He has actually apologised and even congratulated Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for raising the point. Can Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale not be satisfied that he has been recognised? This House appreciates that. So, why do you want to go beyond that? I am also sure the Senate Majority Leader said he had planned to be absent and that it is just that he happened to be present.

He was enthusiastically trying to do a bit of delegation, but you have pointed it out to him that there are some core functions that you do not delegate. If he had intended to do so, he should have delegated to the Senate Minority Leader and not just somebody from his side. Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. BUSINESS OF THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY 24TH FEBRUARY, 2015

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Senators, for the business of next week, on Tuesday 24th February, 2015 at 12 O’clock, we shall have the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) as is the custom. In this meeting, the RBC will schedule the business for next week. It is expected that the Senate will continue with business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper, focusing on the various Bills that are going through Second Reading. The Senate will also consider any other business scheduled by the RBC as well as debate and vote on the report of The Standing Committee on Finance Commerce and Budget on the Second Generation Criteria for Resource Allocation. ` On Wednesday 25th February, 2015 the Senate will continue with Business not concluded during the Tuesday sitting, including Bills that will have concluded a Second Reading. It will further consider The National Police Service (Amendment) Bill, 2014 at the Committee of the Whole. Any other Business that may be scheduled by the RBC will be considered. On Thursday 26th February, 2015 the Senate will consider Bills at Second Reading, deliberate on Motions and any other Business scheduled by the RBC. Mr. Speaker, Sir, at this juncture, I take this opportunity to thank Hon. Senators, because attendance to the business of the Senate this week has increased and improved significantly. I take this opportunity to just remind us that we have over 43 Bills which have been published and if we work hard this year we will process most those Bills. I appeal once more that we attend. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, I want to remind us that after we had our

, we resolved that Wednesdays be reserved for Bills and voting. Therefore, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Order, Members! I think the unwritten part of the speech by the Senate Majority Leader is very important and you should all congratulate yourselves for that performance in the first two weeks of our business. I just want to vary the issue for Wednesday 25th February, 2015. That any Bill that should have been resolved on Wednesday and it failed to, will move to the next day. It cannot wait for another seven days. That is the outstanding one.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you notice that when the distinguished Senator for Uasin Gishu County, Sen. Melly, walked into the Chamber in a normal unlawful way, a number of Senators on the Opposition Side, led by none other than the Senate Majority Leader, were shouting and chanting that the new war lord has arrived? Can he explain and substantiate what he means that Sen. Melly is the new war lord?

Order! Order, Senators! The only business that gets to the attention of the Chair is the business that you bring to my attention in the manner in which you have done. Unfortunately, you are sharing privileged information which I am not party to, and you cannot invite the House to participate in a matter that is not before us. So, I rest that matter there. Senators, before the next order, we have a Kamukunji on Tuesday 24th February, 2015 at 11:00 a.m. to discuss the way forward on the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) Report. It is very important that we all come so that we give it some direction as a House. Next Order.

(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale): Order, Members. We are now looking at the National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.26 of 2014). It is the last on the Order Paper. It is a very short Bill and we should not take time on it because we have only one amendment. I beseech and request that Members stay so that we can finish this Bill.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 2 of the Bill be deleted and substituted with the following New Clause- 2. Section 7 of the National Youth Service Act, in this Act referred to as the “principal Act” is amended by inserting the following new sub-section immediately after sub-section (1)- (1A) for the purposes of appointment of officers under subsection (1), recruitment of persons for appointment shall be undertaken in each county. Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, looking at what we had proposed earlier, I felt that we shall have a threat and maybe people might take advantage. Therefore, I decided to re-amend that Clause 2 of the Bill. It be deleted and substituted with the following New Clause. Section 7 of the National Youth Service Act, referred to as the “principle Act” is amended by inserting the following new sub-section immediately after sub- section (1)- (1A) For the purposes of appointment of offices under sub-section 1:- recruitment of persons for appointment shall be undertaken in each county.” That is my amendment.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What reasons do you have?

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, if you want to recruit within the police force or the disciplinary forces, it takes care of all counties. No county will come out and complain that members of that county were not recruited. That is why I proposed that new amendment.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I would like to thank the Senator for this amendment and wish to put it on record that before the late Sen. Gerald Otieno Kajwang passed on, he had been extremely concerned about this amendment. He The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I will not put the Question because there is another Clause; that is Clause 3.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Senators. I now announce the results of the amendment. The results are as follows:-

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wako! Could you, please, listen to the results?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, the results for the un-amended Clauses are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the Senate its consideration of The National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 26 of 2014) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 26 of 2014) and approved the same with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.

Who is the seconder?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the National Youth Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.26 of 2014) be now read a Third Time.

seconded.

Hon. Senators, this is a Bill concerning counties and so, it is time to go for a Division. I now order that the Bell be rung for 30 seconds.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, the results are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, noting the constitutional role of the Senate in the protection of the interests of counties and their governments and in the implementation of the devolved system of Government pursuant to Article 96 of the Constitution; aware that the 47 counties are based on the delineation of administrative districts as created under the Provinces and Districts Act of 1992; further aware that there existed deep-rooted and historical boundary disputes between the districts which were inherited by the resultant counties; aware that there are existing boundary disputes between various counties, which raise questions on the exact boundaries between the counties; recognizing the provisions of Article 188 of the Constitution of Kenya that mandates Parliament to approve alteration of county boundaries on the recommendation of an independent commission set up for that purpose; the Senate urges the Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee to initiate and prioritize the drafting of legislation within ninety days to provide for the establishment of an independent commission to inquire into, examine and identify the boundaries of counties, taking into account the criteria set out in Article 188 (2) of the Constitution and to recommend appropriate changes to Parliament so as to comprehensively deal and resolve the inter-county boundary disputes to enhance national cohesion and stability. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have sought the leave of the Speaker to move this Motion in amended form. Where it reads “Sessional Committee on Devolved Government,” the Speaker has approved that I move this Motion in the amended form to read, “Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights.” The basis of this Motion is several reports appearing in the newspapers. However, I would like to start with a Petition that is already at the Senate, by Hon. Jeremiah Kioni on a dispute between Nyandarua---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! Please, read the Motion as it is, because you have inadvertently replaced the Sessional Committee with a Standing Committee. That completely changes the meaning of your Motion. I order that you start again.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will start again, but I had sought leave to read it in an amended form and the Speaker had given me authority to do so.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, continue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, is a Petition by Hon. Jeremiah Kioni on a boundary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity to second this Motion. First, I would like to appreciate, recognize and congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for moving this Motion. We have a lot of challenges in this country The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Hoja hii ni ya maana sana. Ningependa kumshukuru Seneta wa Makueni, jirani yangu, kwa kuleta Hoja hii mbele ya Seneti hii. Bw. Spika wa Muda, miaka mitano baada ya kupata Katiba na miaka miwili yetu kuwa hapa katika Seneti, imekuwa vyema Hoja hii kuletwa hapa ili tuizungumzie. Serikali za ugatuzi zimekuwa na shida kubwa. Shida hizo zimekuwa kwa sababu pesa zinazopewa sehemu za ugatuzi zimegawanyishwa kutumia vigezo kulingana na idadi ya watu, maeneo na mambo mengine. Kwa hivyo, shida ambayo tumekuwa nayo ni kwamba zaidi ya nusu ya maeneo ya kaunti yanazozana kuhusu mipaka. Mipaka hiyo imekuwepo tangu siku za ukoloni lakini ilianza kubadilishwa mwaka wa 1962. Mipaka ilipobadilishwa mwaka wa 1962, viongozi waliokuwa mamlakani, walianza kuongeza sehemu zao. Hiyo ndiyo sababu unasikia watu wakilalamika kuhusu The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. First, I would like to congratulate my colleague and friend in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for such an important Motion. This is a very serious issue. Even before we started the elections, as soon as the new Constitution was passed, friction began in various counties. I was in the Task Force for Devolved Government. When we went round, one of the most emotive issues I witnessed was the boundary problem of Pokot and Turkana counties, particularly Turkwel area. As a result, I began to realize that it was not just Turkana and Pokot counties, but also my very own county where we have an institution called Chepororwo Training Institute at the boundary between Uasin Gishu and Elgeyo-Marakwet counties. The question I asked myself at that time was why people were fighting over boundaries. If you go down to it, you realize that it has something to do with resources. It is either over grazing land or taxation powers of counties. For any of you who comes from counties where there is no conflict between you and your neighbours, the conflict is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, first and foremost, I want to congratulate my younger - I do not know whether to call him brother or son - for this well thought-out Motion. In fact, in a way he has done the job that I wanted to do because when I was campaigning I assured the people of Kitui County that the first duty I will do is to ensure that the boundary between Kitui and Tana River counties is properly defined. I am glad that my friend, Sen. Bule is here because he is aware of the problems that have existed. We do not fight simply because we talk and agree, but whatever we agree on is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also beg to support this Motion and thank the Senator for Makueni County for bringing it forth. By the time we were discussing the Constitution before it was promulgated, the most disadvantageous thing that we did to Kenyans was to decide that we shall have 47 counties. These represent the old districts that were there. We made this decision without looking critically at the administrative boundaries that were there at that time. That is why today we face a challenge. You find that each county, and mostly the counties that were subdivided on political grounds where one would want to play within a political area, is faced with challenges today. Now that we have moved on, we have come to a level where the economic viability of each county is growing. Therefore, every county is monitoring where there is economic viability. Each county has interest in areas with natural resources and that is where the whole conflict arises. We need to ask ourselves why counties are facing many challenges. I welcome Sen. M. Kajwang. I know that he also has a lot of challenges within the islands that are within his county. That is Rusinga Island and others. This Senate has the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Sen. Janet Ong’era has an intervention.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you hear Sen. Elachi refer to “her Government”? I wonder what Government this is, could she highlight?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is our Government and it is the Jubilee Government, which when being bashed we are told that it is our Government. So, it is my Government.

She is in order because in making reference to “our Government” that is not an exclusion. It might refer to all of us.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. This is a House of record and students up to university level might read some of the speeches that we make today. The only situation under which somebody would say “my Government” is, for example, when the President is speaking, he would say “my Government” or when the Deputy President is speaking on behalf of the President he will say “my The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What was out of order for her to respond?

Madam Temporary Speaker, can the Member justify under what circumstances she thinks she is entitled to speak in this House by telling us “my Government” and in what capacity?

Senator, can you make that clarification? In case you made a reference and used the word “my Government” you are completely out of order and you have to withdraw that and make that correction.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not think there is impunity as my Senator is saying. Indeed, when the Senator stands up on the Floor, we sometimes differ. He always reminds us that it is “our Government”.

Sen. Elachi, there is an intervention, Please take your seat.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I understand that in English you can say “my President” or “my Government” it is a feeling of a citizen being proud of her Government. It is not about her being the head or anything. It is about ownership and being a proud Member of the Government.

Before I give my ruling, there is another intervention.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Humility sometimes is noble and accepting a mistake is even more noble. There is only one person who can say “my Government” in this country and that is His Excellency the President of the Republic of Kenya, Hon. Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta. For somebody to impersonate and take that title is insubordination and actually treason. Would I be in order to humbly request that Sen. Elachi withdraws and continues?

Sen. Elachi, it is my considered opinion that those issues raised by Senators are valid. So, in case you used the word “my Government” can you simply withdraw and use the right word?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I withdraw. We are in a country with a presidential system of governance and when we talk of boundaries, I think it is the President of this country who can guide this Senate to ensure that we move on---

Sen. Elachi, are you contributing on that specific statement?

No.

I want it to go on record. Did you withdraw officially?

Yes, I did.

It escaped my attention. At what point did you withdraw? If that is the case then proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was saying, for this country to move on, it is His Excellency the President of this country who will guide us in this process; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Could I ask Sen. Elachi to substantiate because looking at Article 188 of the Constitution, there is no provision given to the President’s role in coming up with this Commission? That role is clearly given to the National Assembly and the Senate.

Sen. Elachi, proceed and elaborate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, after that, I do not know where we head. Do we constitute the independent Commission? I thought we forward to the President and then he constitutes.

Sen. Elachi, a constitutional reference has been made. Sen. (Dr.) Zani made reference to the provision contained in the Constitution. Are you in order to state clearly that it is the President who has that mandate when the Constitution provides otherwise? That is the clarification that you should make and correct so that you can proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, Article 188 (1) of the Constitution says:- “The boundaries of a county may be altered only by a resolution––

recommended by an independent commission set up for that purpose by Parliament; and ( b ) passed by–– (i) the National Assembly

Sen. Elachi, just make that clarification and proceed. We are in agreement.

Madam Temporary Speaker, he has to come in because of the conflicts that every county is facing.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. My reading of that Article is that it actually mandates the Senate and the National Assembly to guide the President and not the other way round. Is Sen. Elachi in order to say that as a Senate of 67 reputable men and women, we need to be guided by the President?

Sen. Elachi, I think it is just a matter of your diction. Make that correction and proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I schooled in Kakamega, in a small school called St. Teresa’s. So, English came by meli. How I pronounce and put---

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am the popularly elected Senator for Kakamega. I am aware that the schools we have in Kakamega give standard education. If Sen. Elachi had difficulties in learning, in a school that gives standard education, is she right to impute improper motives on the standards of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senator, proceed and conclude your contribution. I think that is her opinion. I want to limit the interventions and allow the Senator to conclude.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. Since land is diminishing we need to think of ways of solving boundary disputes. We need to sit down and discuss with our citizens how to manage the small pieces of land that they own. For example, if a family has three acres of land within a county, how do we ensure that they do not subdivide and sell it? I know that we have challenges of poverty, but we need to address this issue as the Senate. We need to find out whether we have enough land to ensure that every Kenyan has something on the table. Madam Temporary Speaker, we need to relook at the counties which had challenges when we were discussing the Constitution. Examples are Migori and Embu counties. We have to ensure that positions and resources are shared equitably. We also need to address the conflicts in north eastern, which are based on clans. Regarding boundaries, most counties have challenges. Mostly likely, all the 47 counties have queries regarding boundaries. This is something that we need to address.

Sen. Elachi, your time is up.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. From the outset, I want to join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., the “Duke” of Makueni for bringing this very important Motion that attempts to discuss and help us get the boundaries defined. This is a very emotive subject that requires very careful thought and planning, even as we discuss it. Although it may look fairly straightforward, we are discussing a Motion that could give rise to a Bill, under Article 188 of the Constitution. However, you are aware that this is a matter that can lead to internal conflict and stress in this country. We are aware that already a number of counties have disputes with regard to their boundaries in terms of how they were delineated although this should not really be an issue because we know that the former Independent Boundaries Review Commission actually set out the boundaries. However, there are some disagreements mainly because they are based on resources; especially natural resources. Therefore, this is a matter that must be very well thought out before we can actually come up with a Commission to set it up. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to speak on two points that should really be carefully thought out when the Bill is prepared. This relates to community issues. Elders who will look into this matter should be identified because they are the ones who are clearly aware of the various circumstances regarding where the boundaries actually lie. I think we should not disturb the historical boundaries that had been set because there were reasons behind them. We should not disturb bees where they are making honey. We should not disrupt situations where already assets have been determined in the counties. By coming up with delineation of boundaries some counties will lose resources while The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this very important Motion. I would like to congratulate my fellow young Senator, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., for coming up with this Motion, which in the recent times is one that really excites me. This is because it touches on the core issue of why we represent our people and that is safeguarding their lives. On this issue of boundaries, when you look at the reverse of what has been happening, if we are not bold enough to actually move with speed with what this Motion says, you will see that it has had very negative impact on our people, especially the loss of life. For me, as a champion of peace in this country, who has traversed various areas and actually had the privilege of going to almost all parts of this country, especially areas where communities for a very long time have been having conflict, one of the key issues has been boundaries, especially among the pastoral areas. I know, for example, between the Pokot and Turkana, Pokot and Samburu, Tana River, Ijara and Garissa, the key issue that keeps coming up when we are dealing with the communities is the issue of boundaries. When we fail to do our job, the people and the communities that we represent will do it for us. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have seen communities taking up the role of creating the boundaries themselves. They know that if you pass there, a bullet will get--- When we run away, shy off or fear to do our job, the people will do the job for us. Loss The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have listened to all the speakers this afternoon and they have spoken in support of this Motion. Because this Motion is being moved by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I want to beg him to understand me; that I will be the first one to oppose the Motion. I am opposing this Motion not because the resolution that we want to make is, in any way, sacrilegious; no. It is because of where a Kenyan in national leadership position wants to take Kenya. We have to build a family called Kenya. When I oppose, I do so with the benefit of hindsight. I sat in Bomas when this matter came up. I sat at the Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA) during the second round of an attempt to make the Constitution and this matter was very contentious. It, therefore, begs that I explain to Members, as somebody who was in those areas, what gave rise to Article 188 in the Constitution. Very many submissions were received by the Chairman, Nzamba Kitonga, and people spoke to all the issues that were raised there; geographical features, objects of devolution of Government, the fact that the community had diverse views; that the people were worried about the cost of administration; there was the issue of historical injustices, cultural ties, physical and human infrastructure; and issues of population and demographic trends. All these issues were raised there and this is how it became a hot potato. Madam Temporary Speaker, realizing that the people were not agreeing, the then Committee of Experts (CoE) then decided to introduce an Article, that having created the Senate, the Senate can later on, after promulgating the new Constitution, make that decision because it will be representing everybody. Now, when you thread through what The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order Madam Temporary Speaker. Is my colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to insinuate that the main purpose or reason for establishing this commission or for passing this Motion and allowing boundaries to be delineated clearly is to remove communities from one county to the other? While we know very well that a county like Isiolo, which has a very serious boundary problem, has quite a large number of Merus who will continue living in Isiolo even after the boundary dispute is resolved? I am sure that goes for a lot ---

Are you debating or are you on a point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, is he in order to insinuate that people will be moved out of counties after the delineation of the county boundaries?

Senator, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is giving his opinion and debating the issue; he has not even concluded. I do not think he has made that specific conclusion, he is giving his opinion and when your time comes, you will give your intervention. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam ---

Order! I have not yet given you another intervention. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker; you captured my mood. I started by saying that I know I am in the minority, but I am emphasizing that I am trying to see beyond the resolution. Sen. (Dr.) Kuti is one of my best friends and we normally do a lot of things with him in Bangkok.

Order, Senators! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, proceed with the Motion.

Madam Temporary Speaker ---

I will allow that intervention from Sen. (Dr.) Kuti because you have mentioned him. What is it that you do in Bangkok?

Madam Temporary Speaker, all I remember is that we went for a health conference and I would like to be very specific to know what is this that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is talking about. All I know is that I fell so sick but I do not know what else we did.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you trying to impute improper motives upon the person of Sen. (Dr.) Kuti?

Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. Indeed, he knows that this was with a light touch and I would never try to impute improper motives on my younger brother, who was a kid student of medicine at the medical school when we were training. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to plead with the House. I am trying to see the consequences of the Report they will bring. If you think this is a joke, I want you to remember what happened when Ligale came up with constituencies. The country got polarized. The Ligale Commission would visit a ward and divide it. The people in that particular ward would be given an extra ward but where the boundary would be became a very serious problem; whether it was at the river or not. Going to specifics, there will be the issue of institutions. For example, if you go to Vihiga and Kisumu counties, you will find a huge institution called Maseno. For those The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senator. Is it in order for you to imply that hon. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. runs after antelopes before coming to this House?

I am sorry Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to withdraw and give my own example. You will find that a refined doctor like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is wasting time doing sugarcane farming. I do not have to do that because I practice. The money I make in my medical practice in a year is Kshs5,000 or even Kshs10,000 more than what I get when I harvest my cane.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to almost dishearten our farmers in this country who work very hard planting sugar cane? That is their source of living and they have no alternative unlike our lucky Senator who has an alternative. Could he substantiate and also honour our farmers who do so much to survive?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what exactly are you implying?

Madam Temporary Speaker, my speech is futuristic. I am saying that the farmer of the future will be the farmer you see in Britain.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to tell us that he has been getting 50 or even 100 times more in his profession which he has quit? He is now in a profession where he is equally earning a lot. I hope he gives that money to the people of Kakamega. Is it in order for him to talk big about his profession which he deserted many years ago?

I find nothing to be out of order. He is just talking about himself and he has the facts. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, proceed and conclude.

Madam Temporary Speaker, once we urbanize the industries that we are talking about they are the ones that will hire our information Technology (IT) experts, engineers and so on. I am not in any way belittling the farmers. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Madam Speaker. I thank Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for bringing this Motion which every Senator has been keen to know. Nearly 22 of our Counties have issues to do with boundaries, not for any other reasons but for the reason that services need to be taken to the people and we need to know where your services end. That is why we have these issues. Boundaries are as old as the world. Remember when Adam and Eve sinned, Adam was told to go and till land as a punishment and eat from his sweat. Even today in Israel, they have an issue with the Philistines, fighting over barren land; desert. If you throw a seed of maize, there is no rain and so, it will not germinate, and yet people are dying for it. In the days of Exodus, the 12 children of Israel were told to demarcate their land clearly. To date, those stories are going on and God told them that I am going to give you land belonging to this tribe and it should be there and so on. Man has continued to talk about land. We have moved to counties which are like small countries. In Africa, we have over 50 countries and the boundaries are clearly demarcated. We have a region in Uganda which has Pokots who speak like me. That boundary should be known so that the services to those people are catered on the other side and it is also easily done for us on this side. That is why boundaries are key. Madam Temporary Speaker, we have been quoting Article 188(1) which talks about boundaries of counties. It says that a boundary of a county may be altered only by a resolution. We are not talking about altering anything here. We are talking about aligning what is existing today which was not pointed out clearly when these counties were coming into place. When we gained Independence in 1963, beacons were known. As a result of the increase in population, some people decided to migrate to other regions and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me start by congratulating the ever zealous, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., for this very important Motion. It is very important in the sense that it will help us to create order in our counties. It is amazing that the role of this Senate becomes clear every single day. I respect the drafters of our Constitution and Kenyans who contributed to it. As counties evolve, we have issues of accountability within the counties. We also have the issue of conflict and conflict resolution. Indeed, we also need to ensure that issues of boundaries between counties are well addressed. Madam Temporary Speaker, looking at the last effort that was made to actually delineate these particular districts at that time and the basis of those districts is what formed the basis for counties. That was such a long time back in 1992. We are talking about 23 years ago. Therefore, much has changed within the various counties. The population density and the demographic trends have changed drastically, yet these are the provisions that are put into place to look at how counties were formed. The physical and human infrastructure has changed drastically over time within various counties. The historical and cultural ties, which for a long time have been the basis of how identification of various counties are made, have also changed. It has become more dynamic. Members from various counties have continued to interact over time and that has created a lot of differences. The area of natural resources that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. also talked about is also crucial. The key thing that we will debate in the Bill and the Natural Resources Benefit Sharing Bill stipulates that, for example, if a natural resource bestrides two or more counties, then there should be sharing. However, it will be impossible, because this is where fights will erupt because people will say, this is in my county and this is in the other county. It is amazing that such an issue had not taken important prominence that it is taking now. This is a now-now issue. It is something that we need to solve almost immediately. Madam Temporary Speaker, the proposal is to have the commission set through the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. The commission should work within 90 days. However, I think that is too long. They should do it within a shorter time so The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator. Sen. (Dr.) Zani, you will have 12 minutes to continue with your debate when this Motion next appears in the Order Paper.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m. It is time to interrupt the Business of the House. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, the 24th day of February, 2015 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.