Order, Order, Sen. Kisasa. Do you have a petition?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

My apologies. Sen. Mbura, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I thank you for this chance this afternoon. I bring the voice of the people of Busia through this Public Petition to the Senate under the Constitution of Kenya Articles 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 12, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 37, 39, 40, 42, 43, 46, 47, 70, 238 and 119 as read with Articles 93, 94 and 96 to the Standing Orders Part 24 of Public Petition. This is a petition for the protection of the socio-economic, environmental, human dignity and other constitutionally protected rights and fundamental freedoms of fishermen and residents of Budalangi and Funyula constituencies, off the shores of Lake Victoria, in Bunyala and Samia sub-counties of Busia County. These are the undersigned citizens of the Republic of Kenya who fish in Lake Victoria in Busia County and who are also taxpayers. These people want to draw the attention of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya to the following:- (i) THAT, fishing in the waters of Lake Victoria which is the main economic activity of the communities living on the shores of Lake Victoria, in Bunyala Sub- County, Budalangi Constituency and in Samia Sub-County, Funyula Constituency of Busia County, is facing eminent collapse. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I assume that no Senator is interested in making comments. It shall, therefore, stand committed to the relevant Standing Committee, which in this case, should be the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committee should be given 60 days since we have so much work to do.

Okay. Bring back the report within 60 days. Next Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Tuesday 3rd March, 2015:- The National Safety Authority Operation of Public Service Vehicles (Amendment) (No.2) Regulations, 2014.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday 3rd March, 2015:- Report of the Joint Committee of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security of the National Assembly and the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations of the Senate on the vetting of Mr. Joseph Kipchirchir Boinett, nominee for appointment to the position of Inspector General of the National Police Service.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the prime purpose of devolution in Kenya is to decentralize and transfer functions, resources and power to the county level of government in order to promote participatory democracy and sustainable development for the benefit of all Kenyans; concerned that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that currently there are approximately 44 million persons living with dementia worldwide, a figure that is expected to triple by 2050; acknowledging that caring for dementia patients can be a difficult experience; appreciating the contribution of family members and other care givers of people suffering from dementia across Kenya; noting with concern that mental healthcare does not seem to be a priority in the public health sector in Kenya since the allocation for mental healthcare is less than 1 per cent of the total public health budget; acknowledging the importance of raising awareness on dementia and ensuring that people with dementia are treated with dignity and respect; appreciating the contribution of Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs) such as the Africa Mental Health Foundation and the International Institute for Legislative Affairs, who provide a platform for sharing of views and experiences on care of people with dementia; noting the need to enhance awareness on and provide better care for patients of dementia; the Senate directs the Standing Committee on Health to immediately initiate review of the existing legislation on health care in order to mainstream and enhance care for patients of dementia and further that the Committee submits a report to the House on the matter within ninety days. ADOPTION OF JOINT COMMITTEE REPORT ON VETTING OF NOMINEE FOR THE POSITION OF INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF POLICE

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, On 17th, February, 2014, Sen. Munyes requested for a Statement regarding the destruction of Turkana South ecology in Kainuk Town, Turkana County. The hon. Senator sought to be informed on:- (i) the extent of the destruction of the property; (ii) the motive of the destruction on the perpetrators; (iii) the number of the National Police Reservists(NPR) and the civilians killed to date and explain the cause of these killings; (iv) the step being taken by the national Government to compensate the affected families for loss of their loved ones and property; and, (v) the steps that the Government will undertake to avert more killings and sabotage of this project and other projects like schools and roads in the County of Turkana. I wish to state as follows:- In January 2015, suspected Pokot raiders attacked a construction site for Eco- Lodge Resort Centre which is being put up by the county government of Turkana within Kainuk area. The raiders destroyed one plastic water tank of 10,000 litres and demolished a temporary iron sheet store before stealing a number of iron sheets. It is suspected that the motive of the attackers was to stall the construction of the resort centre since they claim that it is being constructed in their grazing fields and that they were not consulted. However, the police have since commenced investigation into the incident. A number of the National Police Service Reservists and civilians have been killed by raiders in the last one year as indicated below:- (i) reservist Damien Iwoi Kadamong and Samwel rongor and one civilian Paul Ikidor were shot dead on 4th April, 2014 at Kaptir grazing field. (ii) reservist Langamundamoi Namutwoli, was shot dead on 18th, July at Kakong grazing field; (iii)reservist Joseph Inglan Ekal, was shot dead on 11th, September, 2014 at Amolel grazing field; (iv) on 27th, November, 2014, Reservist John longori was found dead in the bush with gunshot wounds in the head; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a situation where one county decides to sabotage another county government, in ensuring it does not develop. They sabotage construction work and they stop them from bringing education to their people, fixing roads and killing reservists. We have lost over 30 reservists in Turkana; as I speak, yesterday, we lost two. The head of the reservist in Kainuk was killed and in a place called Kakong, we lost another young reservist. For some of these places, I know it is a land issue; for example, a place like Lokori which is over 60 kilometres away from the border is still being affected by these cattle rustlers. So, what action is the Government going to take to ensure that the Turkana County Government is supported in ensuring that they develop and implement their budgets, which are being affected by West Pokot? We cannot fix our roads, we cannot do construction of schools and we cannot do farming. I remember last month when they harvested all the crops along River Turkwel and brought their donkeys to carry the produce from the Turkana Side. What action is the Government going to take to stop this intended sabotage against the Turkana?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the deceased did not lose their lives as a result of a malaria or a tuberculosis attack; neither did they commit suicide. They lost their lives because the Government failed to offer security. Can the Chairperson justify his assertion that the Government is not going to offer compensation when the Government failed?

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Recently, some people were killed in cold blood along the borders between Kenya/ Somalia and Kenya/Ethiopia and very little is said about them. I am aware that one of the persons who was killed in Mandera is from Kirinyaga and is going to be buried tomorrow. Nothing is happening and there is no communication from the Government. Is the Government going to take The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. From the list of the deceased persons, this is a security issue because all of them are either civilians or police reservists. This shows that the Government security presence in the area is very minimal. I would like the Chairperson to clarify what the Government is doing about the cause of the conflict, because we know that it is mainly a border issue. We are just addressing the results, but what is the Government doing about the cause of these county border disputes which are causing all these deaths?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For the last 50 years, these two communities have been involved in cattle rustling, with militia fighting against militia over the boundary. What is the Government going to do about the boundary in Kainuk, because it is not just an issue of cattle rustling; it is a border issue and the faster they resolve that issue, the better for the two communities living together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a follow up question. People were armed by the Government and subjected to harms’ way by the Government. Therefore, why would the Government not compensate people who they have subjected to the line of fire? I think that by giving somebody a gun, it can be implied that there is some kind of contractual obligation and, therefore, is the Government then, in that circumstance, prepared to meet its scope of compensation particularly to reservists? Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, when will the Government desist from using this particular line “investigations have been commenced” whenever they have no answers to specific questions?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson of my Committee tell us, as a follow up to what the distinguished Senator for Samburu has said; that this volatile area has been engulfed in these serious security challenges between the Pokot and the Turkana communities since pre-Independence? The Government knows – not just this Government, but successive Governments; therefore, what measures will the Government take to ensure that there is adequate and proper policing between the two communities so that it is not left to helpless police reservists who, as you can hear from the answer, when they are killed, the Government just disowns them even when they were killed because they were bearing Government arms? What measures are being taken to bring permanent and lasting peace between the two communities of Pokot and Turkana and, indeed, all other areas which have security challenges, including your own area?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to concur with the sentiments that the Pokot and the Turkana counties have been having a very long standing conflict---

Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, it is time for clarifications, not for concurrence!

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir; but I wanted to put my clarification from that understanding. I realize that there were challenges in Mt. Elgon and the Government took a very decisive action; they sent in the Kenya Defence Forces and Mt. Elgon is quiet The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Finally, Sen. Mutahi Kagwe.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to seek a clarification regarding the training of the reservists who are used in these places. It is one thing to present a volunteer or a young person with a gun and quite another to actually train them so that they can use these guns. Is there some determination of how many reservists are on either side or is there a possibility that one side has got more reservists than the other side? We can only get to a position where one side does not attack the other when either side knows that the other side is equally strong.

Proceed, Mr. Chairperson.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will start with the question raised by Sen. Munyes as to what the Government is doing. When I was reading the Statement, I said that the Government has intensified patrols in the affected areas and we have to wait and see how effective those intensified patrols are going to be in curtailing the killing of people in Turkana and other parts of the country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. Karaba and Sen. Hassan all asked similar questions relating to compensation. I think when I was reading the Statement, I said that these people were not working for the Government and, therefore, there is no compensation which is due to them according to the laws of this country. They are the people who volunteer to do service for the community in which they live and also do a service to the country. It will be recalled that only a week ago, we passed a Bill here which says that reservists should be paid.

What is it, Sen. Wetangula?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Chairperson to confuse issues? We are not saying that reservists are Government employees; but reservists are quasi-government employees. That is why the Government gives them guns to do their work. The moment they are given guns, they automatically put them in the line of attraction and a line of fire. So, the Government must come clean and be responsible for their safety and compensation for their families, where they lose their lives. Is he in order to equate the situation with the Bill which we have just passed that was brought by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo which required them now to be enlisted as Government employees? The two are not related.

What is it Sen. Murkomen?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for a Member of a Committee to question the Chairperson instead of assisting him in answering questions?

Order, Order! It is perfectly in order for a Member of the Committee to interrogate his Chairperson. But, it is also perfectly in order for a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, no reservist is forced to be a reservist; it is a voluntary service. It is the person who is armed who volunteers to do the service for the community in which he lives in. Therefore, my colleague should not try to confuse me by wanting me to change my position because I cannot change it. It is a fact that home guards and reservists are people who volunteer and they do this without any payment. By extension, they are not employees of the Government and, therefore, there is no provision for them to be compensated. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question raised by Sen. Hargura as well as Sen. Leshore on the border dispute; the question of border disputes is raging all over the country. I know that there are disputes in many counties and they have become even more prevalent. Now that we have counties, border disputes which have not been there before are now cropping up. It is really incumbent upon the Government to make sure that something is done about this. I went round about two weeks ago to various parts of this country and the problem being raised in the House is also being raised by members of the community. My Committee will be meeting tomorrow with the entire security officials, including the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and some of the issues that we want to raise are about cattle rustling, border disputes and the number of reservists who are armed in various places and areas where reservists are not armed. So, I do not wish to pre-empt the questions that we are going to put to them. I hope that Sen. Wetangula will be there to help in formulating the questions that we are going to ask. Mr. Speaker, Sir, another issue that was raised was about the compensation for people who are killed. In Kenya, people are being killed every day; even the other day, a man killed his wife and his daughter; is he going to be compensated? Let us ask the Government reasonable questions. There is no question of compensating every deceased person; it is not possible. I think I have answered the questions---

Order, Members! This Statement is taking too long. What is it, Sen. Leshore?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Chairman in order to mislead us by telling us that they have intensified patrols while we know that in West Pokot, Turkana, North Baringo and Samburu North, there are no patrols being undertaken by policemen or the Administration Police (Aps), unless the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) uses choppers? Even yesterday, there were killings. So, is he in order to mislead us that they have intensified patrols when they have not even sent a chopper to that area?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the use of choppers alone is not the mode of patrolling. Patrolling can be done on foot and by vehicles, and I assume that these police officers are doing patrols on foot.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What is it, Sen. Munyes? This is the last intervention!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the killings in Baragoi and Kapedo, the National Police Service went on leave. They decided it was dangerous to engage these criminals but these forces are the ones with the protective gear. I have always challenged them; why not give the reservists this protective gear, even women. So, that is what is lacking. The policemen have bullet proof jackets and this reservist does not have one, yet he is the one engaging criminals. What action is the Government going to take to improve the supply of equipment that will protect these reservists? Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have lost thirty guns in the last two months to this militia who come from West Pokot and parts of Uganda. What actions are you going to take, as the Government, to ensure that we have actually captured these criminals and returned the guns - that are meant to protect the Turkana side and which are now being used for restocking the criminals and supporting one side against the other side which is lacking the guns which were used to protect them? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question of protective gear, like bullet proof vests, is a totally new question which I cannot answer. But if the hon. Member wishes to put the question in future, I will respond to it. But, I also agree with the hon. Member that there are a lot of arms which are in the wrong hands of people who have murdered reservists and police officers. Therefore, these are some of the things I hope my Committee will engage in with the officials when we meet them tomorrow.

Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, looking at the interest of this matter and the fact that you are also having difficulties answering the questions, I direct that you dig deeper into this matter so that you can bring a more comprehensive report to the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will recall that a Select Committee was appointed to investigate this issue. Among the things that we are investigating and on which we are going to make a comprehensive report is about what is happening in Turkana, Pokot, Baringo, Laikipia, Samburu, Isiolo and many other places where people have come to give us their evidence. We are meeting the Kenya National Security Committee tomorrow to further interrogate them. When we submit that report, it will be very elaborate and will address all the issues of concern that have been raised. ONGOING PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT ON LAND REF: NO. NRB/BLOCK50/599 – AT THE JUNCTION OF LORESHO ROAD AND KAPTAGAT ROAD

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to issue a Statement that was requested by the Senator for Murang’a, Sen. Kembi-Gitura on the ongoing property development on land Ref : No. NRB/Block 50/599 situated at the junction of Loresho Ridge Road and Kaptagat Road The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Chairman of the Committee for the answer. You note from the outset that the answer from the Minister ends by saying that the Ministry through the National Land Commission is going to review the allocation of the said parcels of land and if found that they had been reserved for water reservoirs which is a public utility, titles will be revoked. This is an extremely important issue because as you know, we are now dealing with issues of land “grabbed” in the 1990s. As Mr. Speaker knows very well, or like every hon. Senator knows, if you wanted to develop an estate in the 1990s, it was a condition that you would surrender a portion of that land for public utility. Loresho was planned in the 1970s and that was the sane condition. The question that needs to be answered if we are going to do away with land grabbing is; if the developer surrendered his land for public utility and if at any point the public need ceased, then logically that land should revert to the developer and not a third party. Mitema Holdings of P.O. Box 1771 Kisumu, Maywood of P.O. Box 1771 Kisumu and Novac Construction of P.O. Box 1771 Kisumu is the same person who got granted public land and a letter of allotment and then sold it for Kshs3 million each. He made a total of Kshs9 million. In the meantime, public land has been given away. First and foremost, I live in Loresho and he has said that from available records, no building plans have been approved by this office to warrant the purported development. On what account is the developer then fencing and continuing to develop The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I concur with Sen. Kembi-Gitura that the issue of impunity over land is not new to all of us. With your permission, I have had a few questions from a few other Members and I would like to request that you give our Committee one week so that we summon the Cabinet Secretary and the National Land Commission so that we can get to the bottom of this matter particularly as regards the stoppage of the work which is going on because I do not think I have the powers to issue such orders.

(Hon. Ethuro)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The land in question is within my county. I visited the site over the weekend and managed to take photos with the area’s residents. The land in question was reserved for a water reservoir for the residents of Nairobi and its environs.

Order, Sen. Sonko! In this House, everyone has a role to play. There is a Chairperson of the Committee who responds. So, if you have any information, you should have given it to the Chairperson. For now, you can only interrogate the Chairperson further.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek a further clarification from the Chairperson since the developer has already taken construction materials to the site. What action is the Chairperson going to take to ensure that the construction work at the site is suspended with immediate effect as we wait for the revocation of this title in question?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Actually, when I mentioned earlier that I had consultations with some other Members of this House, the Senator for Nairobi, Sen. Sonko, was one of the people who sought such consultation. Like I mentioned earlier, it is my intention and that of the Committee to call the Cabinet Secretary together with the National Land Commission (NLC). Now that the stoppage is becoming imminent, we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senators, we need to make progress. What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Two weeks ago, I sought for a Statement from the Chairperson---

Order Sen. (Dr.) Machage! The points of order must relate to the current Statement. It is Statement Time, you do not need to rise on a point of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have already ordered the Chairperson of the concerned Committee on what to do.

You should put the request and I will order. However, when you say “point of order”, it means something else. It is not an opportunity to seek your Statement. Having appointed you to this position myself, I cannot indulge you any further.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your indulgence.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! Please resume your seat. I said that I will not indulge you because you should know better. Please, proceed, Sen. Kembi-Gitura.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether you are also going to overrule me on that issue. It is about a Statement because this one is finished.

Order, Sen. Kembi-Gitura! I am glad that you made your case easier for me. It is 25 minutes to 4.00 p.m. We will have another 15 minutes to deal with the Statements. Please, let us try to get as much as we can within that time. At exactly 10 minutes to 4.00 p.m, we will proceed to the next order. Please proceed Sen. (Dr.) Machage. CHOLERA OUTBREAK IN KENYA

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Two weeks ago, I requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Health on a matter that I thought was an emergency, on the cholera epidemic situation---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! I will help you manage time. Since the Chairperson is here, let him answer because he knows your matter Please, proceed, Chairperson of the Committee on Health.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Hon. Senator is a Member of this Committee and he is fully aware that we tried all means possible, including direct phone calls to get this message. However, until now, we do not have any communication from the Ministry. We got a Statement from the Disaster Management Center which was very inadequate and we are unable to release it. So, urgent as this matter may be, I am sorry to say that we do not have a written Statement to read here. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise with a heavy heart to cry for the people of Migori County who are in a situation that the Government has ignored; it cannot even issue a Statement on the health status on the so-called epidemic that I demanded in this House. It is totally unfair on the side of the Jubilee Government to ignore its people in a situation like this, of a cholera epidemic, and not even give a Statement on the situation as it is on the ground. Would I be in order to request that you order that I get that answer the soonest possible?

Cholera outbreak is a very serious matter. The Government must not only appear, but actually go out of its way to do something about it. I direct that the Chairperson does what it takes by Thursday to get a response. Failure to do so, you know what to do with the relevant Ministry. I will approve a Motion to deal with that Cabinet Secretary. Please proceed, Sen. Kembi-Gitura. RECRUITMENT OF THE VICE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF NAIROBI

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sometimes last year, I sought a Statement regarding the appointment of the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Nairobi. I know that an answer was given. However, the Speaker ordered that it was not sufficient and that further consultations should be done and a proper answer given. I know that since that time, a Vice-Chancellor has been appointed and is in situ. I have no quarrel or argument with that because it is administrative, but the Statement that I sought, being the property of this House, I believe is not preempted and must be answered, because there were issues of legality that I had raised and I would like to know what the final answer the Chairman got for that question. It should not be assumed that it disappeared because the appointment was made.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request that you invite the Chairman of the Committee on Education to give me the answer on the state of Affairs at The University of Eldoret.

What is it, Sen. Abdirahman?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was keenly following the number of responses from the various chairs, starting with Sen.(Dr.) Kuti and the other two. It is quite evident that responses are either inadequate or not very good answers are given. Just to pick one example, if you allow a second, Lenny said he needs another two weeks-- -

Order! Who is Lenny?

It is Sen. Lenny Kivuti. He said that he needs another two weeks besides the two or three weeks they were initially given. I think we are being treated to a situation where we are not getting any meaningful transaction of business in this House particularly with regard to Statements. It is about time we looked for an alternative approach because bringing Cabinet Secretaries to the Committees is not sufficient.

Order, Sen. Abdirahman. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

You cannot. I am the one who granted you the opportunity and I have the right to deny it if I feel you are abusing it. That is a substantive point of order which you should have alerted the Chair to, so that I can allocate you more time. Secondly, I do not think it is factual. We had two Chairs responding; the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs and the Chair of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources. I think, fairly, they were satisfactory and as usual, there would be one or two other issues to be raised. It is only Sen. (Dr.) Kuti who has expressed serious difficulties of getting the Statement. We have given him one more chance with a warning of dire consequences to any public officer who is frustrating the work of the House. Therefore, those assertions should be done if they have failed to do something. If one week goes by and the comprehensive report is not there or by Thursday nothing would have happened, then I would entertain your point of order next week.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to be corrected, I agree but looking at the supplementary questions that are raised and the manner in which the responses are coming out, I thought it is important to bring out the issue because we do not get adequate answers and time will bear us out, Thursday is not far.

Order. My reading is different. The many supplementary queries raised demonstrate the importance and the interest of the matters being canvassed. Let us proceed and as I have suggested, next week is not too far. You will make a better case based on more facts. We need to get the Chairman of the Committee on Education because I said by ten minutes to 4.00 p.m., we will be done. First, I will help the Chair for Education on the one by Sen. Kembi-Gitura. We need the information but the Senator is fully aware that whatever transpired by the end of last Session ended with that Session except for Bills. If the Senator is interested in the matter, he can put a fresh request to you. For now, let that one lie. Deal with the issue of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for your concern especially regarding Sen. Kembi-Gitura’s concerns. We had discussed with him but the ruling is welcome. PREVAILING CHAOS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ELDORET Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to inform the Senate that following the request from the Senator for Kakamega last week about the problems facing the University of Eldoret, my Committee went to Eldoret over the weekend. We were there from Thursday to Monday and we are still compiling the report. We are also still receiving more reports from that area. It is not possible therefore, to table the report in draft form. We have to wait until all the information is received and adequate report is tabled in this House. In view of what can happen, it can lead to precedence and this can precipitate into other universities seeking the same intervention. So, I rest there.

Sen. Wetangula. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what the Chairman of the Committee is purporting to rest on the Floor of this House. The situation in Eldoret is volatile, the university is closed, there is an ethnically engineered assault on the Vice-Chancellor and threats are being issued on a daily basis. In fact, the Vice-Chancellor’s life maybe threatened. I expected and indeed the House, expected the Committee to bring an answer to this House. In fact, they asked for tomorrow but you directed that it be brought today because of the volatility of the situation. You have heard the Chairman rumble on and end up by saying he rests there. I do not know what he is resting. We want an urgent, cogent and conclusive answer about this university.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I quite appreciate the urgency of the matter and I appreciate the frustration that my colleague, Sen. Wetangula, is expressing. However, the Committee met this morning after having been in Eldoret to find out what the problem at the university is. It was very painful this morning when we discussed that this Statement cannot be read today because we have not received all the information required. Therefore, we are just praying with the House for understanding. What would have been brought here this afternoon would have been incomplete information which perhaps would have been more dangerous and indeed fuel the situation even more. We are seeking for understanding from the House and from you. You ordered that the Statement be read today but the Committee felt that the draft we have is not sufficient enough to address all the issues because it is a weighty problem.

Order! I think you have made your point.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also appreciate the concerns of the Minority Leader, who seems to be in constant touch with the Vice Chancellor, looking at his statement, but my greatest concern is the use of language; did you hear the Minority Leader say that the Chairman is rumbling? Is it really parliamentary to say that a Member of this House was “rumbling” while we know the Committee Chair was only communicating to this House?

The Chairman of the Committee on Education.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that somebody in the name and stature of the Minority Leader can say that I was “rumbling” in this House. Having been a teacher for that long, that is intimidating and it is wrong. He should therefore apologize to the House. I never rumbled but just stated the facts. The situation is that if I was to table what I have in the raw form, we are going to open a Pandora’s box and it is going to signify other problems for other universities in future. For that matter, therefore, I am asking the Senate to take it from me that we have come a long way and we are not going to give half-baked information just to please one or two people in the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wanted you to guide the House. I rise particularly with respect to Standing Order No. 88, which is about anticipating of debate. Last Sunday, when I was scrolling through my newspaper; The Sunday Nation - you know, 90 per cent of Kenyans are said to trust the media - page 32 read: Senate unearths massive rot at varsity. As I read through, the report said that the investigation being carried out by the Senate Committee on Education has unearthed massive rot in the university. Therein was a picture of Sen. Karaba and the Vice-Chancellor of the University. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

What is it, Senate Minority Leader? We have exceeded our limit. So, I will allow just five more minutes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point of order is in relation to what the distinguished Senator for Kirinyaga County, the Chairman of the Committee on Education, has said; that he is not here to give statements to please one or two people. Once a statement is sought, it becomes the property of this House. The fact that any particular individual Senator shows interest does not mean, he wants to be pleased. These are matters of national importance and we have a right and duty to follow. So, is it in order for the Chairman of the Committee on Education, who holds a position of privilege, to use extravagant, unhelpful and directionless language that does not in any way enhance the course of debate in this House?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order, noting that today, the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Science and Technology, Hon. Jacob Kaimenyi, released the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) results of last year, we are getting another 450,000 students who sat for their KCSE headed to our institutions of higher learning. We must take seriously whatever is happening in the University of Eldoret. If there are institutions that we should safeguard as the citizenry, they are those institutions. Therefore, I beg that as we conclude this matter, the Chairman of the Committee on Education must take this thing very seriously. He should not only give a statement of indulging the House but also give a definite day. We must get a solution to this problem even if it means Members of the Committee having to work overnight. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you must direct that tomorrow, the Statement be tabled in this House because it is of national importance and everyone is looking at these institutions. The way we deal with the University of Eldoret will gauge how other universities will be dealt with because those issues will come up. Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it has taken almost 20 minutes and in all that time, the Chairman of the Committee on Education has not told the House when he will bring the answer. He is just saying, we need more time. How much time?

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, finally.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Chairman of the Committee on Education said that he does not want to open a Pandora’s box which may lead to anarchy in other universities. Is he in order when he knows that, however serious whatever information he has, this House has the capacity to listen to him in camera? It is our right to hear whatever dirt there is. Open up that Pandora’s box so that we can know. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Order, Chairman! Let me dispose this matter in the following manner. Firstly, Chair, you need to give a definite date taking into account all the points that Members have given in terms of the urgency of the matter. Secondly, I am satisfied that the Committee is seized of the matter. I think that is very critical. They have actually visited the place, attempted to beat the deadline and the Senator for Nyeri County has told us as much. You remember Sen. Abdirahman had talked about the Chairs bringing information that was not good enough. I think when the Chair comes and pleads for more time, we should also be a bit understanding, of course, given the sensitivities around it, so that we ask him to do a better job, faster. There is the issue of the language. Sen. Wetangula said that the Chair was rumbling. The same Sen. Wetangula was quick to challenge the Chair on some words that he is not issuing statements in order to please one or two people; a statement that I felt was basically in the context of he does not want to do a shoddy job just to beat the deadlines. I think everybody appreciates that technicalities should not deny us good work. He then went ahead and added his own many words, which were not offensive, describing the same thing. You know, being repetitive is also not acceptable. Therefore, under those circumstances, I will allow the language thing to cancel itself. Just to make this point, there is neither Chairman nor Senator who rumbles. Sen. Wetangula, do not raise an issue with this. I have given you an escape route. The last one is the one of Sen. Hassan which is a serious one. I need to look at the paper so that I confirm that they were quoting the Senator and not reporting on the activities of the Committee. You know that our activities are in the open. If you are visiting a place and the media is there to cover what you are uncovering, how do you blame the Chair or the Committee? So, we need to establish the particulars and then we will deal with that matter. Mr. Chairman, when will that be?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of what has been observed, I will give a full report next week on Tuesday. I have to meet the Governor for Uasin Gishu, Senator for the area, chief and many others.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not want to be seen to be casting aspersions on the Committee. But if public funds were used to take the Committee to Eldoret, exactly where the Office of the Governor is domiciled, what reason did he have not to meet the Governor? In fact, many people in the public are asking why those people were not invited to come and give those answers from the Senate. To me, this amounts to wasteful expenditure of public funds.

Order, Sen. Khalwale! Even when you make that statement, it is based on audited accounts. I do not think that you have taken the role of the Auditor General. I know that you work closely with him, but that is not your job. You can go wherever and the Governor may not even be present. If you are to invite people, also you have to give some notice. So, I direct that a comprehensive report be brought on Tuesday next week. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Last week, the Speaker promised to give a ruling on some discussions in the House on the same issue, but in regard to the language used by some of the Senators. We were promised that, that ruling would be delivered today. A few of us were mentioned in regard to the same. The Senate Minority Leader, Sen. Khalwale and others were mentioned on the same.

Order, Senators! I got to learn of that matter today. So, I am still working on it. I will advise appropriately. Next order!

Order, Senators! I want to plead that this is very critical for us to dispose off today. We need the numbers because it is a matter affecting counties. What is it, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am concerned that something is about to be moved and we, Senators, do not have a copy of the Report that was tabled by the Chairperson, to be able to contribute effectively---

Order! Order! Did you really have to wait from 2.30 p.m. to 4.00 p.m. to raise that matter, for an order that is already on the Order Paper? You should even have approached me and we would have circulated copies of the Report. Move the Motion as you circulate the document. When was the Report tabled?

On Thursday.

The rule is that once a report has been tabled, then it is available to the Members.

On our desks.

Which desks? What is it, Sen. Khalwale?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is quite evident that the Report is being circulated now. But our tradition in Parliament has been that such a Report is made by the Office of the Clerk to be available in our pigeon holes. We want to thank you because for the last three weeks, we have had pigeon holes. So, it has to come clearly from the Chair that the Office of the Clerk is failing. They should take the reports to the pigeon holes.

Order! The Clerk is making his case worse. There is no excuse that since the document has been tabled it is public. This document must be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government on the suitability of the Nominees to the position of Commissioner in the Commission of Inquiry into the Petition to Dissolve the Makueni County Government, laid on the Table of the House on 26th February, 2015. Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for reminding the House that we have to dispose of this matter today. This is because the consequences are so serious that if this House does not finish in good time, by law the President can say that we have delayed and continue to appoint these people, yet it is important for this House to be involved in terms of passing these names. Yet, again, as I said one year ago when we were debating the first impeachment in this House for the Governor of Embu, Hon. Martin Wambora, another very unfortunate situation has occurred, which is precedent setting. The Senate is for the first time engaging in a process that, though provided in our Constitution, most of us who are constitutional students and have followed the development of what is happening in our country as far as devolution is concerned, never imagined that in the first term of the first elected leaders in our Republic, we would discuss or even contemplate the suspension of a county government.

Order! Order! Have you moved the Motion?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Proceed. My apologies.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you ask most of these Senators, some of the few sections in the Constitution that we never imagined would be operational in the first three years, were the ones relating to impeachments, removal of a public officer at the level of a governor and the suspension of a county government; a very serious matter. By suspension and dissolution of a county government, we are talking about removing all elected and nominated county assembly leaders, governor and deputy governor in a county. It is unprecedented, yet it is here with us. We never imagined to have a complete dissolution of a county government. In fact, in my own contemplation and study of law, I have imagined that if you look at the arsenals provided for in law, in so far as disciplining public officers who are errant, thieves and unable to manage resources at the counties, the first step would have been taking that person to court.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have been listening, I do not believe he has moved the Motion. Is he in order to proceed? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think many people thought it is a very long Motion. I read it and so in the shortest moment, I saw the Senator of Kisii consulting his colleague there, it could have by -passed him.

By the time he lifted his head, you were done. Order, Members. I have confirmed with the Clerks-at-the-Table that the distinguished Chair of the Devolved Committee actually moved the Motion by reading the Motion as per the Order Paper.

Order! Sen. Orengo, I have been so elaborate with words to avoid the doubt but you seem to be creating more. I said I want to confirm that the distinguished Chair of the Devolved Committee actually moved the Motion by reading the Motion as per the Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying, if I use the analogy of international law, in so far us for those of us who have studied international humanitarian law, you know that there are certain rules of war. Some of those rules say that when you go to war, you must not use indiscriminate weapons that are not targeted, that can cause greater damage than the target you were trying to achieve. If I use that analogy, I would say, that there are various mechanisms provided for in law that could have enabled us to deal with matters of indiscipline and corrupt public officers and those who fail to carry out their duties. The Constitution provides for impeachment of a governor and also provides an opportunity for people to go to court to remove a person. It also provides for a recall of a Member of a County Assembly (MCA). The rule or the mechanism that should be used sparingly is the one of suspension because it is indiscriminate. It targets the MCA, the governor, deputy governor and every member who was for or against a particular issue. It is discriminate in nature, it is able to bring down the county government completely and paralyze the systems of county governments but yet again because the law provides and gives this House the greatest benefit to preside over and oversight the process of suspension of the county government, we must do it because we have a job to do and we must be seen to be doing it fairly, meticulously and faithfully to the benefit of the people of Kenya. The process of suspension, just to remind the House, is anchored in Article 192 (1) (a) (b) of the Constitution which states that:- “The President may suspend a county government – (a) In an emergency arising out of internal conflict or war or (b) In any other exceptional circumstances”. That is why I was saying, that other exceptional circumstances in the rules of interpretation of law must be something closer to what is called emergency arising out of internal conflict or war. These are words that are used together, they must be interpreted as is close as possible to the ones that are specific in nature in the rules of interpretation, that those are internal conflicts or war. So, this process has began and the President received the Petition from the people of Makueni to dissolve the county government and as per law, the President went ahead to nominate a commission of inquiry as provided for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am following the Mover of the Motion very keenly. There is a point of law which he should help me understand before I make my contribution to this Motion. Apparently, in this document, there are no attachments to prove that at least two persons are actually residents of Makueni County. He has confirmed by his own contribution that even they were in doubt. Could he, please, lay on the Table, documents to confirm that this lady is a resident of Makueni County? On one hand, he says she lives in Nairobi. On the other hand, he says she is married, but lives in a different county. We might pass this Motion and then it subsequently ends up being challenged in a court. Could he table those documents?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we do not have pictures showing her home in Makindu. However, we are convinced she is a resident of Makueni County. We have her national identity card which she got from Makueni County. That attachment is here in the addendum. So, we have her identity card here in the report which is here with me. I am sure that after I move the relevant member, I can trace the relevant page.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you not satisfied?

I am not, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The law is not speaking to the identity card; it is speaking to residence. If you have an identity card of Elgeyo- Marakwet County and you are a resident in Nandi, that does not mean you are a resident of Elgeyo-Marakwet County. Could he prove that, indeed, she is a resident of Makueni County?

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Is that not a question of debate in the sense that the Committee has sat and it is satisfied that she is a resident of Makueni? If you are not satisfied with that, that is a matter of debate. It cannot possibly be a point of order. That is how I look at it.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Let me repeat this; the Committee has sat and found that she is a resident of Makueni County. So, even if you make a point of order now, you are not going to change that position; neither do I have the capacity to do so. But when you are debating and if you can convince your colleagues that she is not a resident of Makueni County, then that would be a matter of debate.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Who are you informing?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am informing the Chairperson.

He has to tell you whether he wants to be informed or not.

Of course, yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. He is a Member of this Committee. I will also request that if the Members will be kind to us---

Do you want to be informed?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Then take your seat; let him inform you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to add that the identity card could have been taken even in Kibera. But in the same identity card on the back, it shows the place of residence as Makueni---

Order, Sen. Ndiema! I thought I dealt with that when I was trying to answer Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale about the identity card. Sen. Muthama, who do you want to inform?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform the Chairperson that there are Senators here who come from that county. The debate will be open if truly this lady will be proved by none other than the Senator for Makueni and Sen. Muthama will stand to supplement him. That is the time that we will actually determine if the lady comes from Makueni County or she does not live there. These are issues that the Chairperson is presenting. We will debate and thrush out everything in the open.

Basically, Sen. Muthama, you agree with me then.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to help the Chairperson because he is about to finish. I want to direct him to pages 9 and 55 of the Report. It reads the same, but it is in reference to Mr. Taib Ali Taib, where they have stated:- “With respect to Mr. Taib, the Committee having considered the Curriculum Vitae (CV) submitted, supporting documents and the nominee’s submissions on the approval hearings, unanimously approve the nominee and recommend his appointment to the position of Chairperson of the Commission.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is an error here which we need to correct before you finish.

Thank you, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. It is true there is an error which must be corrected accordingly. Mr. Taib is approved to be a member, but not the Chair. However, I wanted to be clear on the question of residence as asked by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. This is because this issue will be raised in future---

Order, Sen. Murkomen! I have ruled on that issue.

No problem, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Murkomen, could you, please, proceed?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the question of residence, this is a very important criterion which we should consider as a Committee. The Committee was alive to that fact that there will come a time in the future when somebody will be deemed to have come from a particular county by virtue of his name, but actions and everything else, that person does not belong to that county. If you look at Section 37 of this Report, we, as a Committee, were convinced she is a resident of Makueni. She informed the Committee as follows:- 1.) She was born in Mukaa Location which is in Makueni County. That is as per documentary evidence which is the national identity card. It shows where she was born. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I want to support the nominees as presented. When we look at these names, we support the work done by the Committee. They look like able Kenyans and people who can do the job that needs to get done. Even though I do not personally know most of them, I do know that Mr. Mohamed The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Excuse me because I have a cold. I stand to support this Motion which is a very simple matter. It is only asking us to approve a report the essence of which is to accept the recommendation of the Committee that the six persons named are suitable for this commission that will look into affairs of Makueni County. Madam Temporary Speaker, listening to the able Chairman of this Committee, I feel they have done their job. The proposed names are more than qualified in my view for the job at hand. In that case, I do not think there should be very much debate. We need to approve this. I urge the rest of the House, let us approve this and move quickly to look at the real issues; that is, what is inflicting Makueni County. Having said that, let me also say that this Motion is about Makueni County. Last year, there was a small story told of a group of people who went to Mogadishu in Somalia. We are told that there was no organized way of how to get a taxi and go to town. So, they got a lift from someone and when they got to town, the person from Nairobi was booked in Hotel Mogadishu. However, where they were dropped, the name on the hotel was not Hotel Mogadishu. When they asked the driver, the driver needed to speak in their language then somebody interprets. The driver kept on insisting that there The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support the approval of the names of persons to sit in the commission to investigate the Petition filed by the residents of Makueni. From the outset, I want to reiterate what the previous speakers have said; that this process has put Makueni under great anxiety. Therefore, it would be in the interest of the people of Makueni that the Report of this Commission is presented to His Excellency the President and this Senate as quickly as possible. I want to reiterate that there have been a lot of misconceptions about this Commission. If this was a legal case, the title would read: “The people of Makueni versus the County Government of Makueni.” So, the County Government of Makueni, where there have been misconceptions that there are two governments in Makueni, would be demystified by this Commission, to the extent that the county government, executive, members of the county assembly and leaders of that assembly are going to be on trial by the people who elected them, to determine what we would call in legal terms “notice to show cause why they should continue to be leaders in that county”. Madam Temporary Speaker, the supremacy of the Constitution and Article 1 itself, comes into play where leaders who have been elected by persons are put to task. There is no difference between the process of dissolution and the recall clause under the Elections Act. Both have the same result; that the persons who are on trial are the leaders themselves. Therefore, the misconceptions that, maybe, it was targeting certain persons or not would be demystified by this Commission. After reading the Commissions of Inquiry Act, you will find many things that would challenge this Commission. This is because they will have to cross-reference and refer to many other legislations in order to determine this issue. I would have loved to see maybe a recommendation or obiter from this Committee of ours - particularly, Sen. Kipchumba Murkomen, who was amongst the drafters of this law – to guide the commission on what was the purpose of having two persons who are experts in conflict management, but do not come from that county. It would have been fair to have maybe a title to say the purpose of this would be to either find out whether there was an attempt to have dispute resolution; if not, then they recommend. If they have, maybe do something. But more importantly, it is a tremendous opportunity to find out and be able to navigate what appears to be a lacuna in the Constitution. The good people who drafted our Constitution anticipated that the national Government would have problems with county government, hence Article 189. But in the case of counties, nobody imagined that county governments would get into quarrels with county assemblies. That is the reason in counties, you end up looking as if you have two The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will also be very brief in supporting the adoption of this Report. I would like to say that this is a precedence setting activity and we are very happy that the President appointed these nominees. I am very familiar with Mr. Mohammed Nyaoga, the Chairman of the commission to be. He is a lawyer of high standing. I have interacted with him even in social and legal matters. He commands a lot of respect both in his profession and his other lives. I do not know much about the others, but from the reading they are all people of repute. We are sure that they will come up with very just and impartial findings. This will also be an example to what is going on. There is a lot of overlap, conflict and misunderstanding of roles at the county level, given that is a new dispensation. It is, therefore, important that this clearly brings out mandates, although it is clearly stated in the Constitution and other legal documents. The settling in of the county government and the county assemblies is becoming a major issue in some circumstances. There is merging and underhand relationships that do not augur well for the counties in such a way that they leave or share the same bed. Therefore, they do not actually have the interests of the county and the populace at heart, but some form of underhand understandings which do not augur well for democracy at the county level. In other circumstances, there are grand standings whereby there is competition for power and this also affects service delivery. A good example is the case of my county where there is a serious stand-off between the county assembly and the executive. This has brought a lot of disadvantage to the people of the county. Therefore, it is now time, through this kind of activities of the commission where, it is not about grandstanding, sharing their personal interests, but it is about every institution to do its part and be able to be respecting and working in an inter-relational manner where each section of Government at the county should work together. Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a very important exercise and, therefore, we need to support and adopt this Report. As Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. stated, the President should gazette these names so that they can go and start working immediately. We want The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to also contribute to this very important Motion. Initially, I had thought that I would not support the Motion because of certain legal problems that I was seeing in terms of the Constitution and the County Governments Act. However, having reconsidered my position on this, I fully support the establishment of this commission. I hope it will do its work as required. I understand that the distinguished Senator for Makueni asked me what the problem was. Let me touch on it because it may put some light on the work of the commission. I was looking at the Constitution and I think the mover of this Motion pointed out the grounds upon which a county government can be suspended. The Constitution talks about it. Article 192(1)(a) states as follows:- The president may suspend a county government- “In an emergency arising out of internal conflict or war” The Mover explained that under the category found in 1(b) as a ground for suspending a county government which reads:- (b)“in any other exceptional circumstances” Madam Temporary Speaker, this would then mean that, that part of the Constitution should be read as analogous to (a) which talks about internal conflict or war. If you read that provision together with the County Governments Act which says in Article123 which the distinguished Senator for Makueni has referred to, it spells out the grounds as being; “engages in action that are deemed to be against the common needs and interests of the citizen of the county”. To me, that law was the threshold because what is deemed is not actually saying what it constitutes, it says what is deemed to be an action against the needs and interest of citizens of the county. Who determines what the needs and interests of the county are? In my view, it would then mean that, probably what is deemed to be “common needs and interest of the citizen of a county” may depend on who is driving the process. If you have a powerful force in a county which is determined to bring the county government down and collect the signatures of 10 per cent of the registered voters in a county, then the process can be triggered. Initially the President does not have much of a say, at least until now, all that he has to do is determine that the people who have signed the Petition are actually the registered voters. If it is established that it is so, then the matter automatically goes to a commission to be appointed by him after a resolution is made by the apex of inter-governmental bodies as established under the Inter- governmental Relations Act. That being the case, my starting point is that as we appoint this commission, we must bear in mind that it should not be politically driven. It is about politics, but it should The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Shame!

This is a way of ensuring that Kenya will not continue to be one indivisible nation. You can see that even in Meru, determining who the king of Meru is becomes a problem. I wish they can come to the conclusion that Meru is one ethnic group, but living in a country called Kenya and it has two Senators and I respect all of them.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion, it is not for nothing that some of these things are coming to the Senate. Dissolution of a county, like the Mover emphasized, is coming to the Senate. The impeachment of the President and even the Deputy President comes to the Senate. These things are meant to ensure that, above everything else, the Senate is considered as the ultimate voice in the legislature on any matter touching a country called Kenya. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Before I make my contribution, allow me to use the Floor of this Senate to congratulate four people; firstly, Sen. Murkomen. I have gone through this Report because it means so much to us. This is a historical Motion and exercise. It is one exercise that proves to those who care to know the Constitution of Kenya that the Senate is bigger than the President of the Republic of Kenya in this particular matter. I want to thank him because he has done a very good job; I know how difficult it is. Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to thank the Principal of Musingu High School in Ikolomani. Musingu High School has registered a mean grade of 10.8 with 63 “As”. Similarly allow me to congratulate the Principal of Kakamega High School, which has done equally well. Not forgetting my own little school; I have a school of orphans who I support from Form One up to Form Four. They were doing their first exam this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion and to thank the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government for sitting down for many days and hours to make sure that this Report is tabled in this House, on the suitability of the nominees whose names are listed here to inquire into the Petition to dissolve the County of Makueni. The suspension of a county is indicated in Article 192 of the Constitution, as the Committee members have cited. I pity the County of Makueni because they have come to fulfill this prophecy that was written in the Constitution which is like the Bible of the people of Kenya. It says that, “the President may suspend a county”. It is not a must. In the County of Makueni, the leaders that were chosen on 4th March, 2013 as Governor and MCAs, instead of realizing that they are the servants of the people, they went into some war and brought the county to a standstill. It is now time that they went to school, opened their eyes and read this Chapter and Article 192 to realize that we are starting with them. Out of the 47 counties, they are the first county to be brought here. Instead of the people of Makueni getting services, they have now been subjected to this scenario. Madam Temporary Speaker, it states that a county shall not be suspended unless this independent commission is set up to investigate. After this has been done, it goes on to state that: “the President shall be satisfied that the allegations are justified”. When that has been done, it comes to the Senate. Where it goes on to state: “and the Senate has authorized the suspension”. This means that whoever was thinking that the Senate was just an addendum or that we did not know anything that we were doing, now it is time for them to know who the Senate is. We are going to look at it thoroughly. This issue of a stalemate in a county assembly arises because of some misunderstanding and where people have ceased to appreciate why they were elected. A county Governor and his executive are supposed to administer and work for that county using the resources that are passed by this House. However, when that money lands into the coffers of the county and then they divide it between the county assembly and the county government, suddenly in the minds of some executives, Governors and some MCAs, the Senate becomes irrelevant. They think that the Senate has no business and no role to play. Now they are listening to us when we are telling them: “Woe unto Makueni County because they are now passing through a knife here which they are not supposed to.” When they were going into a bitter war, where they were claiming who is more superior and wanted to go to Israel--- I found some MCAs who were telling people in my county: “We have gone to Israel and seen a wall. If anybody who is sick touches it, he or she is healed.” I told them that none of them was sick and they replied that they went there and the angels of the wall told them that they had already passed the 2017 elections. Everybody in the villages was being cheated that because those people had already gone The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senator, your time is up!

I support.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand to support the Motion that seeks to form the commission that seeks to inquire into matters of Makueni. This is an issue that is very unfortunate for the people of Makueni and for the people of Kenya. We went for elections and elected leaders in all counties hoping that they will serve their full term. Unfortunately, it is disappointing that we now have the prospect of a county being dissolved. I am not saying that the commission will recommend so. The work of the commission is to recommend dissolution or otherwise. They need to have that in mind. Madam Temporary Speaker, the Constitution provides for only two situations where a county can be dissolved. The first one is emergency rising out of internal conflict or war. This case does not apply to Makueni. The second is in any other exceptional circumstance. Personally, I am not sure whether what has happened in Makueni could be categorized as a serious circumstance that warrants this kind of step. I say so because it would appear that the situation in Makueni has been brought about by adamancy; refusal by the leaders to work together to serve the people. It would appear here that this is dissolution of a county being sought through action of the same leaders who are in office. It is unsolicited and it is the leaders themselves who have decided. There are lingering questions in my mind that in the event of dissolution and in the event that the same leaders are elected back, how will they perform? Perhaps in future, it may be necessary that where dissolution arises out of omission or commission by the same people who are given responsibility, then when dissolution occurs and they are going to stand, all of them should be disqualified. This is the first case. We do not know how many other cases will arise due to the outcome of this process. Madam Temporary Speaker, elections are very expensive. An election in a county is going to use tax-payers’ money. Of course, funds will be required to fund the commission. This Senate has spent a lot of time and resources discussing the issue of Makueni. That time and money wasted should really be the responsibility of those who fail to work. They should not be rewarded with what they are soliciting. I am not sure that all other avenues which are economical were exhausted. We, as the Senate, represent counties and county governments. We are the defenders of counties. In all these processes, it would appear that the Senate was denied the opportunity to provide leadership and arbitration in this process. We, as defenders, must defend the people of Makueni as we are required by law to do in counties. When the law was drafted, that is, the County Governments Act, it should be amended to provide that all those avenues be exhausted. The Senate should have been given the opportunity, but what is happening is that whenever the Senate wants to come in, there is the option of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Senator, you will have five minutes when we next resume on this. Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt business of the Senate. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday 4th March, 2015, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.