Hon. Members, I have two communications to make. I will start with the first one. Hon. Senators, I wish to acknowledge the distinguished presence of our friend and my colleague, H.E (Dr.) Mohamed Cheikh Biadillah, President of the House of Councillors of the Kingdom of Morocco and his delegation seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. The delegation comprises:- 1. His Excellency Abdelhamid Saadaoui, Head of Haraki Group, Popular Movement, Majority in the Congress; and, 2. His Excellency Mohamed Fouzi Benallal, Vice President, Parti Istiqlal, the Opposition. They are accompanied by the following:- (i) His Excellency Abdelilah Benryane, Ambassador of the Kingdom of Morocco to Kenya; (ii) Mr. Omar Chiban, Staff, Morocco Parliament; (iii) Ms. Ghyslaine Derrous, Staff, Morocco Parliament. (iv) Mr. Abderrahim Cherrab, Political Counselor, Moroccan Embassy; and, (v) Mr. Mohamed Koursy, Journalist, Agency Morocco Press. As Hon. Senators are aware, H.E (Dr.) Mohamed Cheikh Biadillah arrived in our country on Sunday, 8th March, 2015, for a four day official visit. The delegation has had a number of engagements so far, including a meeting with His Excellency the President of the Republic of Kenya, Hon. Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta. The delegation has as well had a meeting with the Speaker, the leadership of the Senate and the Senate Standing The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, the second communication is to acknowledge the presence of a delegation of the Parliamentary Committee on Local Government Authorities of Tanzania. Hon. Senators, I am pleased to acknowledge and welcome to the Senate this afternoon, a delegation from the Parliament of Tanzania which is seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. The delegation comprises Members of the Parliamentary Committee on Local Government Authorities. They are in Kenya on a study visit to benchmark on the role of Parliament in social security with a special focus on county governments. I request Members of the delegation that when your name is called out you stand so that you may be acknowledged in our usual Kenyan tradition. 1. The Hon. John Paul Lwanji, MP, Vice Chairman/Head of Delegation; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Nataka kutoa shukurani kwa Serikali ya Tanzania kwa kuwaruhusu Wabunge wa Bunge la Tanzania kufika hapa ili kujionea kile tunachofanya katika Seneti. Wabunge hao wanaongozwa na John Paul Wanji, ambaye ni Mbunge katika Bunge la Tanzania na Naibu Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Utawala wa Mikoa na Serikali ya Mitaa. Bw. Spika wamekuja na kutuona sisi kama Kamati ya Labour and Social Welfare. Tumezungumza mambo ambayo yanaweza kutusaidia . Vile vile tumeweza kuelezana jinsi tunavyofanya kazi hapa na vile wao wanafanya kazi kule Tanzania. Tunataka kuwashukuru sana kwa ukarimu wao wa kufika hapa. Jambo la mwisho ni kwamba wao pia wametualika na ikiwezekana baadhi ya Maseneta watatembelea nchi ya Tanzania.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will speak in English language. Since my colleague, Sen. Madzayo from Kilifi where Kiswahili was also nurtured has congratulated the delegation from Tanzania, it will only be proper for us also to acknowledge the friendly relationship that we have had with Morocco. Many of us here have visited the Kingdom of Morocco. We have been extremely well treated during our visits to Morocco. We need to continue to foster that relationship, including our parliamentary exchanges. We need to build on the best practices as we nurture our African democracies and the destiny of our people. We welcome the delegations from Morocco and Tanzania. Thank you.

Bw. Spika tunafurahia sana ziara ya Wabunge ambao wamekuja kututembelea siku ya leo, hasa kutoka nchi ya Tanzania; moja ya nchi za Africa Mashariki na jirani wetu. Tunajivunia kuwa nanyi hapa na tutafurahi kuwatembelea tena siku za usoni. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Naona Maseneta zaidi wanaomba kuongea. Ni nini tena, Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan?

Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Spika. Naona Maseneta wawili wanajaribu pia kuwaonyesha ndugu zetu Watanzania kwamba Kiswahili kimelala hapa.

Order, Sen. Hassan! Yes, Sen. Muriuki Karue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join my Chairman of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare Committee in welcoming the delegation from Tanzania. They came to discuss a very important subject of retirement benefits for workers of the county governments. We have had very fruitful discussions. I believe that the deliberations will continue either by them coming back or us visiting them. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Nitapeana nafasi tano za mwisho nikianza na Sen.Wamatangi, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Elachi, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. na Sen. Billow Kerrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to also welcome the Moroccan delegation. The relationship between our country and Morocco requires strengthening. We have had a strong relationship both in trade and diplomatic relations. This visit by the delegation from Morocco is an indication that this relationship will grow into greater heights. We are sure that most of us want to open more opportunities in Morocco. I welcome them and also urge our Members and the entire country at large that when we have an opportunity, Morocco is a good place to go to.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to take this opportunity also to welcome both the delegations from Morocco and Tanzania. Indeed, it is a wonderful opportunity that we could have this visit by a delegation from Morocco; a delegation from Kenya having had a chance to go there. We can actually see what we have in common and what lessons we can learn from each other, especially as we continue to forge stronger bilateral relationships. Mr. Speaker, Sir, both Kenya and Morocco have a lot in common in terms of certain sectors, specifically tourism and agriculture. Through the dialogue that we have had with this particular delegation, I am sure that we will find ways and means of improving and coming up with better skills in terms of agriculture. Irrigation has been a very strong point in Morocco, something that Kenya could learn. This sort of engagement should continue being enhanced. Morocco has also had challenges in terms of security, terrorism and extremism. We have exchanged views in terms of how we can improve in these particular areas which are very key. Morocco has also been at the forefront in terms of solar energy. This is an area where we could also benefit. We have already benefited from the interaction that we have had with them. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to thank the Moroccan delegation and the Ambassador for giving his time during the four days they have been here. Indeed, when the Senators travelled to Morocco the Speaker of Morocco ensured that they met senior Government officials. We hope that as we build a legislative framework in a bicameral system, we shall benefit from the experience in Morocco. We also know that Tanzania is trying to come up with a new Constitution. We hope that they will also learn from the lessons that we have learnt as Kenyans. As they consider the local authorities in Tanzania, they also need to learn more from the counties and see whether it is a model that they can borrow from. They can even make what we have now better. Currently, we are facing a few challenges, but they can improve on them. I also want to thank Morocco for the trade that we have, especially on tea. If we work very well with Morocco we will strengthen bilateral trade that we have had for many years. They have supported us and we are there to support them. We want to also learn about how they are dealing with terrorism, so that we can protect our borders. Thank you very much for coming. Send our greetings back to Morocco and Tanzania.

Order! Order! What is it, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for a minute I thought that Sen. Elachi was asking for votes. Right behind you is the future Senators and Members of National Assembly of Kenya, whom we have not recognized.

Order! Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join the rest of the Senators in congratulating the visiting delegation from Morroco. We have received a very nice coverage in our Fourth Estate in Nairobi. I want to tell the delegation from Tanzania, that the Bill by Sen. (Dr.) Zani on benefit sharing borrows greatly from what Tanzania is doing on tourism. That is the reason Tanzania is doing so well in tourism more than we are doing in Kenya. In fact, the people of Tanzania are benefiting directly from tourism.

. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to add my voice in welcoming the delegations from Tanzania and Morocco to this House. I had the privilege to join you when you were hosting the delegation from Morocco. One thing that I have learnt is that, they are leaders, particularly in irrigation and energy. It is something that this country needs to learn from. It is amazing the things they have done with regard to agriculture, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to salute the delegations from Morocco and Tanzania, particularly to welcome with special feelings those from the neighbourhood, that is Tanzania. I would like to tell them to do whatever they can do to use their influence in Parliament and in their country to fast-track the East African Community (EAC). They can use their influence in their country to overcome the few hurdles that are an impediment to the realization of the EAC. We want to see Kenyans, Tanzanians, Rwandese and Burundians moving freely. We want Tanzanians to move freely in Kenya or Rwanda and Kenyans to look for jobs in Tanzania freely. This is really the way forward. We wish to get to that destination as quickly as possible.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following paper on the Table:- Review Report of the 2014-2015 half year national Government Budget implementation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motions:- THAT, cognizant to Article 12 of the Constitution guarantees a right of citizenship; noting that it is the right of every Kenyan attaining 18 years to register and be issued with a National Identity Card; further noting that the National Identity Card is at the core in determining the extent to which an individual enjoys his or her fundamental rights and freedoms; concerned that orphans and vulnerable children attaining the age of 18 years in the children homes have difficulties obtaining the National Identity Cards, the Senate urges the national Government to take remedial policy administrative and legislative measures to improve and expedite the process of registration for the National Identity Cards, especially for the orphans and vulnerable children who live in children’s homes and have attained 18 years of age. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, on 18th February, 2015, the Chairperson of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC), Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, rose to issue a Statement pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(a) on Senators’ General Statement. It says:- “A Senator may make a Statement on a county issue or on an issue of general topical concern.” The substance of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s Statement was the delay by the Auditor- General to submit to Parliament, reports on accounts of county governments for the Financial Year 2013/2014. Pursuant to the provisions of Article 229(4)(a) of the Constitution as stated by the Senator in his Statement, the deadline for submission of the Report on the accounts of the national and county governments for the Financial Year 2013/2014 was December, 2014. The Senator further observed that Article 229(8) of the Constitution provides that within three months after receiving an audit report, Parliament or the relevant county assembly shall debate and consider the report and take appropriate action. Hon. Senators

(Hon.) Ethuro: What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for that good answer to my concerns. But noting that the Kenya National Audit Office (KENAO) is practically the expert arm of Parliament that enables us to do accurate oversight, I have further taken action and held a meeting with the Auditor-General. He has confirmed that the main reason he is unable to beat this deadline is because of insufficient funding. What are you doing as the Speaker of the Senate specifically, given that unless you have audited accounts, then this Senate cannot oversight the devolved governments? What are you doing given the expanded role of Parliament of participating in budget making, to ensure that the Auditor-General is sufficiently funded? Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second clarification is on the matter of the Public Audit Bill. This Bill concerns counties and you know very well that this particular Bill has been ongoing in the National Assembly. In view of the fact that we know it concerns counties, what proactive action have you taken to ensure that we do not again come here to start crying that we are being bypassed and resort to going to court. What proactive action are you taking to ensure that Speaker Muturi does not breach the Constitution in so far as this Bill is concerned? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank you for that communication that you have made. I also want to thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for raising the issue with you, which has made us get that answer. My understanding of Article 229(4)(a), which is very clear on the timelines in which the audited accounts must be given, is very important because a lot of things are predicated upon it. One of them being under Article 203, which talks about audited accounts approved by the National Assembly. This would then mean that if there is a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I can see that the requests are quite many, so we should make our interventions brief. Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to speak and for your communication from the Chair. I want to raise two issues which you could help us clarify. One, it is true that the Auditor-General has made statement before us, as a Committee and also in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, chaired by Sen. Billow indicating that his office is underfunded. I do not think that is enough. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has requested you to state what you are going to do about it. However, I am not quite sure whether it is you who should be the prime mover of raising issues regarding the under financing of the Auditor-General’s office or any other office of statutory nature dealing with finances. The issue is; can you give us direction - given that the Auditor-General has complained, and, indeed, the subject of his complaint is borne by the delay of these accounts - can you give us a direction on how to pursue this matter? How exactly should we, from now on, move to ensure that that office gets enough funding to do its work? Both the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and our Committee is suffering from the fact that the Auditor-General is not fully funded. Therefore, he does not have the institutional capacity to carry out his work. That is the first question. The second question puzzles me, and, maybe, this is the root of the matter. I am not quite sure whether the reports we are looking for are not already in the National Assembly, because Article 229(7) of the Constitution. It says: “Audit reports shall be submitted to Parliament or the relevant county assembly.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your communication. I would also like to thank the Senator for Kakamega County for raising very important issues. It has come to our notice and we have had meetings with certain county assemblies; even today we had a meeting with some officials from county assemblies. If there is something that concerns me, it is the performance of independent offices vis-a-vis the legislature both at the national and county level. I do not how your office will facilitate that because county assemblies are even coming up with ideas and suggestions that the Senate should facilitate or directly get auditors who will do forensic audit on behalf of county governments either because of inability of the Auditor-General’s Office to do the job based on either human resources or otherwise. Sometimes they do not have faith in those who are working with independent offices closer to them. Going forward, is that something that is feasible? How shall we deal with matters of accountability, particularly when it comes to verification of information where the assembly is incapacitated on one hand, but on the other hand, it also needs to get necessary information to avoid pilferage of resources at the county level? Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you also for noting the importance of co- operation of other institutions. Going forward, I hope that we can get situations where the Judiciary can work with us so that we can unlock what our Committee of Finance, Commerce and Budget is doing, so that we can carry this country forward. Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly is to thank you for giving very important information and message. Going forward, we have a bigger role to do in this House in so far as oversight is concerned. If we can have an open session, through your good offices, with the Auditor-General, the Controller of Budget and all the Senators; like the ones we have had with other offices, then we can interrogate these issues one by one and have a final report that we can carry forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for this opportunity. I also want to join other colleagues who have sent their appreciation for your communication. A violation of a stipulated provision of the Constitution should, in my assessment, attract a more severe sanction from this Senate. As Sen. Kembi-Gitura pointed out, this interferes with the entire planning systems that are laid out in the Constitution. Therefore, there will be delayed approval of reports and a delay in planning for the next cycle of county allocation of resources. You talked about not prejudicing remedies available to this Senate. I will propose that either the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget or the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments to explore further remedies that are available to this Senate or Parliament in totality. If this breach is not stalled by the time we are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also join my colleagues in thanking you and, indeed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. This morning, we were discussing in the Finance, Commerce and Budget Committee about the petition in Kisumu. It then transpired that it will be very difficult to proceed with the petition on the aspect of finance. This is basically due to lack of audited accounts. There is also the issue of how long it will take. As I speak, we are still waiting for the Auditor-General to give us the Audit Report for Narok County following the petition that was brought here. I believe that there is a way out of this. I do not believe that the way out of this is the Speaker’s Office. The Speaker’s Office is, perhaps, the lead office to guide us on what we should do. However, this issue is major because it relates to Article 96(3) of the Constitution where the Senate will not carry out its mandate. Consequently, I propose as a way forward, that in the budgeting process for the Senate, we have an audit support system and an audit support budget. This morning, Sen. Wetangula, in his contribution, picked out the aspect of the fact that the Senate can hire private auditors to deal with matters of petitions. However, we can only do so if there is a budget aspect. That is number one. Secondly, this is an area that we need to engage, not only Mr. Rotich in the Treasury, but also Hon. Mutava Musyimi of the Budget and Appropriations Committee of the National Assembly. It should be possible for us to engage the two with a view of influencing them or telling them how it is important for them to allocate sufficient funding to the Auditor-General’s Office. By the end of the day, all these matters will be resolved when the Auditor-General has sufficient funding. If the solution is for the Auditor-General to have sufficient funding, then the process by which this should happen is something that the whole House should be involved in and not just the Speaker. Thank you.

.: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This issue is serious. Let me remind this House that the impeachment of Governor Wambora came out in the first report of the Auditor-General. I want to say on the Floor of this House, that it is possible that the enemies of devolution and the “Al Capones” of corruption are sabotaging the Office of the Auditor- General so that we do not get these reports. The rumours about the Auditor-General are not in counties. It is possible that the people out there in the counties do not know about the Office of the Auditor-General. Therefore, deliberate sabotage of this office is happening so that we do not ask the most appropriate questions. The initial audit or what we call the transition audit, when Governors took over counties, before we split committees were already bad enough. By the time we deal with these issues, this Senate will be an undertaker of corruption and not a watchdog of misuse of public funds. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! I do not make any confessions!

.: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we call it a “confession” in law. Let me call it an admission.

For whatever sins I have, I pray directly to my God.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, again, on that issue, probably, your direction should, in a kamukunji or off-camera, find us a method of how that Bill will come to this Senate before it is passed at the National Assembly. We have waited for very long. We are always the ones who are given these documents late so that we appear to be “ Johnny come lately” in the legislation process which should not happen.

I have several requests. So far, you have done well in terms of remaining within the two minutes. If anyone goes beyond that, I will cut him off. We have to be sure. Sen. Billow, Sen. Elachi, Sen. Orengo, Sen. Muthama, Sen. Wetangula and Sen. ole Ndiema, you will contribute in that order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that useful statement. I will mention two things. One is the reality that corruption is significantly gaining ground in the counties. There is no doubt about that. There is a lot of concern that literally, in every county, there is massive corruption that is being reported by Members of County Assemblies, by the media, in the Auditor-General’s Reports, the Controller of Budget Reports and many other reports. We had a meeting with the Auditor-General regarding this matter. The Auditor- General expressed, clearly, that he does not have sufficient resources to carry out this exercise. Why is this? This is because when he was dealing with the national Government, he had a budget of Kshs2.5 billion. When we added the 47 new governments, he got an extra Kshs100 million and his budget became Kshs2.6 billion. In the second year, he got another Kshs100 million. Therefore, in the Budget Policy that was approved here last week, we emphasized and recommended that the Government must increase more resources to the Auditor-General so that he can carry out his work effectively. Yesterday, the National Assembly passed the policy statement. I do not know how much money they have allocated. However, I will be meeting hon. Mutava Musyimi to discuss exactly how much they gave. He promised that they would allocate more money to the Auditor-General in the Budget. I agree with what Sen. Kagwe said. This is a matter that, in fact, we need to engage the President on. The Budget should get to His Excellency the President because there is concern about inadequate resources. With regard to Senators in the Budget Policy Statement that was discussed and adopted yesterday, there was---

Order! You have exceeded your brief and time limit.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. One of the things that we, as House, need to do is to ensure that three institutions that we have; the Commission on Revenue The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me make a general point on this issue that is very important. Normally, we are put under pressure when it comes to the question of division and allocation of revenue. We play a very important role in so far as the division and allocation of revenue is concerned. However, we are not playing an effective role with regard to how that revenue is used or deployed by the counties. The success of the counties or the devolved system of government is not going to work out if we are just a purveyor of revenue, but we cannot oversight how that revenue is used. Let me remind you that in the one party era, to ensure that this beast of corruption germinated in the system, the office of the Auditor-General was killed. Partly, by denying it security of tenure and by dividing it into two; that is when the problem started. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in Article 229 of the Constitution, there are constitutional timelines that must be fulfilled. According to this Constitution, if you violate any provisions of this Constitution, even in relation to a timeline, action will be taken against you. We impeach governors on constitutional violations. If we are going to be made to violate the Constitution on account of some institution not playing its role, then I think that this project of devolution may fail and we will be blamed. My suggestion would be that we have a Kamukunji and then have a discussion with the office of the Auditor-General and find out what the problems are.

Order! You have exceeded your two minutes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, let me appreciate the statement you have made and also remind my colleagues that in the Tenth Parliament, I served in the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). The issues we dealt with turned out to be those who misappropriated public funds are either senile, sick and cannot be pursued or they are dead. We came out with evidence on how public funds were squandered. Now, we are entering into that same situation because the accounts we are seeking here are for the year 2013/2014. We are heading to the 2014/2015 Financial Year and yet we have to verify how the funds were spent. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious matter. In fact, I would wish that you even allocated time for this Chamber to debate this important issue. The Constitution has been grossly violated. Article 229(4) says:- “Within six months after the end of each financial year, the Auditor-General shall audit and report, in respect of that financial year, on – the accounts of the national and county governments.” We are now entering the third year of devolution, we have sent billions of shillings to the counties and there has been no audit. Nobody knows whether this money has been utilized in accordance with Article 229(6) which states as follows:- “An audited report shall confirm whether or not public money has been applied lawfully and in an effective way.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, every time the Controller of Budget and the Auditor-General appear before any of our committees, the cry is that his office is completely understaffed, under-funded and incapacitated in every way. The Controller of Budget and Auditor- General are even now under threat with the little that they hold on. The Bill that you have mentioned in the National Assembly is whittling down the independence and capacity of the office of the Controller of Budget and the Auditor-General. If the timelines are clearly set, this House, as an oversight agency – like as any other Parliament - has worked with the Controller of Budget and the Auditor-General as the principal agents of oversight. In the absence of that, we cannot quite tell what is going on in the counties. That is why in every county, governors are now creating a new office called “Director of Special Programmes,” who is being given public funds to play the politics of the governor; to run everywhere, doing everything and anything with public funds. It is good that you have come out clean and honest that you were not consulted on the Bill in the National Assembly. After you leave your Chair, we urge you to write a letter demanding that when that Bill is finalized by the National Assembly, it must be forwarded to us. It squarely concerns counties. Lastly, I think we also need a House that oversights because I understand there is an audit of the Constitution going on. We should look at this Constitution and see whether we are going back to the bad old days that Sen. Muthama is referring to, where all audits are done long after money has been stolen, misappropriated by people who have left the country. All we are told is that ten years ago, somebody misappropriated The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We, as the Senate, are the protectors of counties. We do so through our oversight function, but without expert audit reports, this function cannot be performed. It is high time that the audit does not become an annual ritual so that it is only done after expenditure. There should be a continuous process of auditing. It should be a performance audit that the Auditor-General audits right from the time that the first batch of the money is released so that they are in touch. There is also need for the Auditor-General to realize that he is now dealing with 48 county governments and not one Government as before. It is necessary that he decentralizes that function and assigns officers to specific counties. Part of the high expenditure in that office is used on paying allowances for officers to travel all the way to the counties to carry out audits. This is very high expenditure. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are also told that some of the reasons the Auditor-General is not performing is because some officers deliberately do not provide the documents or information. It is high time we looked at it to see to it that if there is any officer who fails to provide information then we must be---

Your time is up, Senator!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the problems and the situation of accounting in the country is in a pathetic situation, particularly when you look at the work of the Auditor-General. As Sen. Wetangula said, Section 229 of the Constitution has been breached. This is because we have not moved fast to amend the Public Finance Management Act (PMF) not only to regulate the functions of the Auditor-General, but to also prescribe penalties for his failure to act. That is the only way we will be able to manage the finances at the county level and be able to perform our oversight role. Our Legal Department should look at the PMF Act and see how we can streamline it, especially so as to give lee way for the legislative part of the county government to handle its own monies. The problem we have now in the county government is the executive overburdening the assembly in the pretext of controlling money. So, you find that the Speaker and the county assembly do not have powers because money is controlled by the executive.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank you for that communication. The Senate under Article 96 has its mandate as oversight and legislation and allocation of money to the counties. That being our function, we must also be able to oversee how those funds are being used. As I speak, so many counties are having problems because of financial malpractices. Today some MCAs from Kisumu County were having misunderstandings because they think that money is being misappropriated. In the absence of audited accounts, it is very difficult for this House to be able to determine what the problem is because we have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, your many interventions; almost 13 of them, just demonstrates the importance of this particular matter. That is why when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale raised the matter, I gave it some thought because the primary function of a Legislature is oversight. Without that, we have no other business in town. Again, I cannot be the one to propose a Motion to that effect; that is your job. Mine is to deal with the matter that is brought to me. I will just respond to a few which I hope will capture the rest. How do we ensure that the Attorney-General gets more money and how do we become proactive? Those are issues raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. First I want to persuade Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that it is not the office of the Speaker - I think the other Members have raised the same matter – to give more money. You have the power. As the Chairperson of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee that is on a daily basis interacting with that office. It is you actually to be pro- active the way you have done in seeking the Statement and find out from the Auditor- General - as you have done - what his needs are. Liaise with your colleagues, particularly the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Approach even your counterparts in the National Assembly because budget making is not the sole duty of the Executive; Parliament actually participates. Unfortunately in terms of the figures, we, as the Senate, are disadvantaged in the sense that power has been given to the National Assembly on our collective behalf. So, it is a matter for us to assess what the Auditor-General needs and we make representations as a House. We have started that process in terms of the Budget Policy Statement. I see from your own recommendation you say:- “Although the report tabled before the National Assembly by the Budget and Appropriations Committee on 2015 Budget Policy Statement, as given on page 29, Kshs1 billion for enhancing county audit under the office of the Auditor-General.” So, some progress is being made in that direction. However, it is important that we determine what is the actual quantum needed and then Parliament should be able to provide that money. This is not just a matter for the Senate. It will equally affect the National Assembly and the county assemblies. That is a proposal that both Houses should easily agree to without much ado. What do we do to Article 110? I think Article 110(3) is an old beaten story. We have gone to the Supreme Court and made a resolution that every other Bill that goes out of that routing will meet the same consequences; that is so clear. I have said before, this is a democracy. We are not going to start fighting and grabbing things. Everybody knows The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We are on Order No. 8 on the Order Paper. The Whips have not given me an indication of the number of Delegations. However, from my looking, it seems good. Let us give it two minutes to allow those who are outside to join us. Please, ring the Division Bell for two minutes.

We will do the Division for Order Nos.8 and 9. The Division Bell will ring for only two minutes. The two minutes are over, close the door and draw the Bar. The procedure would be such that we will read one Order, vote, we do not announce results, we go to the next Order, vote and then we will give the results at the same time.

Order, Senators! Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You had done the disappearing act. I would not even have recognised you. The whole idea is that you freeze the way you are. So, if you had maintained the original position---

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You once ruled that for as long as you are in this House, you must either vote “yes”, “no” or “abstain.” However, if you look at the two Divisions, they do not tally. There is somebody who did not vote the first time. We need a consistency on what you had ruled. I want you to reaffirm your ruling that as long as one is in this Chamber, they shall either vote “yes,” “no” or “abstain.” This is because the two Divisions do not tally. One of the Division lists shows that there is a Senator who did not vote during the first Division.

Order! Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, guilty as guilty charged! This is real application of confession by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am the culprit who did not vote the first time because my card was unable to register my vote although I pressed it. However, I voted manually during the Second Division. That is why the figures are worrying Sen. Hassan.

Order, Senators. I just want to confirm that, indeed, Sen. Hassan is right on that assertion. It is not just a directive of the Chair, but a Standing Order. I did not quote the Standing Order itself. He has made the right application and interpretation. That is Standing Order No. 80(1) which states:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We are back to statements. The Rules and Business Committee (RBC) made a decision this morning that statements should not exceed one hour. If you have more than one statement for today, we will only give you a chance to either request or respond to only one. So, if you have more than one on the Order Paper, you need to approach the Chair and prioritise the one for today. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has already done so. Therefore, this is applicable to everybody. Order Members, these many points order after the Chair has ruled is very disturbing. What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is now 4.15 p.m. and we have spent a lot of time on these preliminary issues. Noting that we have at least seven Motions and Bills in their Second Reading and there are many more queuing in the House Business Committee, would it be in order to postpone the statements and go straight to Order No. 10 and subsequent ones? We have too many things in our tray. This may even force us to propose that we sit on Wednesday mornings, so as to finish outstanding business before the House.

Order, Senator! First, I have already ruled on that. Secondly, let me deal with your last bit. Of course, you know the procedure. We can always create more time if the business is that overwhelming. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I wish to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding the failure by the Government to make regulations, pursuant to Section 95(1)(a) of the Basic Education Act, 2013. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (a) explain why the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Science and Technology has not made regulations to establish the national education boards and county education boards, pursuant to Section 95 (1) (a) of the Basic Education Act, 2013 to date; (b) clarify if he is aware of the procurement and recruitment crisis facing schools due to lack of functional boards of management, occasioned by the Cabinet Secretary’s failure to gazette the regulations and if so, state the measures being taken to address the matter; and, (c) state if the Government could in the interim extend the life of the existing boards the second year running to enable the institutions to operate within a legally acceptable framework. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have heard that. I will table the Statement here in two weeks’ time.

Is that okay, Sen. Lesan?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

It is so ordered. Chairperson of the Committee on Education, it is your time to issue the Statement that was asked by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale regarding University of Eldoret. What is it, Sen. Musila?

I made a request to respond to Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o earlier.

But you did not press the intervention button. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I beg your pardon.

Sen. Leshore, you are also requesting to speak.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have two requests to make under Standing Order No.45(2)(b).

But the Speaker is not aware of that and yet, you are the most experienced Member. There is no way that I can help you because even the Chair’s hands are tied.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will make the requests tomorrow.

Okay, maybe tomorrow. Chairperson of the Committee on Education? PREVAILING CHAOS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ELDORET

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to give a Statement regarding the chaos at the University of Eldoret, triggered by an attempt by some local leaders to eject Prof. Teresa Akenga from office as the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Eldoret (UoE), as requested by Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale. I wish to state as follows:- On Thursday 25th February, 2015, the Committee unanimously agreed to probe the circumstances that led to the recent disturbances at the UoE, by visiting the university to interrogate the university’s board of management. The probe took place from 26th to 28th February, 2015 in the UoE. The Committee paid a courtesy call to the Uasin Gishu County Commissioner, Mr. Abdi Hassan and his security team where they briefed the Committee on a number of issues. The Committee then had a meeting with the Vice-Chancellor, Deputy Vice- Chancellors, Registrars, Dean of Students, Students Governing Council and the area chief. Finally, the Committee toured the students’ hostels within and outside the university. The Committee’s findings are as follows:- (1) The distribution of employees from the management board, Deans of Schools, senior management administration, other staff and chairpersons of various committees does not reflect regional balance. Only three major communities are represented, that is, from Rift Valley, Western and Nyanza regions. (2) The University of Eldoret Council has not taken responsibility in the recruitment of the new staff, promotions, transfer and financial management. Instead, it has abdicated its duties to other actors. (3) Although the recruitment and appointment of the Vice-Chancellor, Prof. Teresa was competitively carried out by the Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Education, Science and Technology on the recommendations of the Council, in line with the Universities Act, the Vice-Chancellor has faced a lot of resistance from the local community, including the leaders who prefer a Vice-Chancellor from the locality. (4) The 352 contractual workers taken over from Moi University when the university got its charter requested for permanent employment terms, but the university had not confirmed them yet due to financial constraints. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Chairman can you clarify whether you have brought to the House a final report, an interim report or a summary? What do we have because you should be able to complete your answer?

This is the executive summary of the Report. The Report is being compiled because we have had so many other reports coming and we will condense them together so that we table the Report.

I have several points of order on that. Sen. Obure, is it a further clarification or a point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to seek further clarification.

If that is the case, you can go ahead.

I just wanted to know from the Chairperson of the Committee, if he met any of the county leaders, including, for example, the governor, the local leadership or the Senator for the county and what their views regarding the state of affairs at the university are.

I have about six points of order and I will give all of you a chance. I want to give a chance to the people who are seeking further clarification and I will start with Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Chairman has tabled this document which is not signed. That means it has not been digested by Members, so I do not know whether he can own this document or what is his intention for submitting it here before it is stamped.

Chair, you will take the three questions before you respond.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are faced by procedural difficulties. Ordinarily, when Statements are sought, they are sought from the Executive and the Chairs of Committees convey the requests and await the response from the Executive.The Speaker ruled that when those Statements come here, they must be signed by the Cabinet Secretaries themselves. Now, when this Statement was sought, the Committee embarked on a totally unprocedural conduct by deciding to visit the situ and holding meetings instead of letting the Ministry give them a response as the line Ministry incharge of this university. We are now told that this is an executive summary of yet another Statement.It is neither signed, initialed nor in any way authenticated as to who the authors are, or who takes responsibility. If indeed there is a Statement that this represents as an executive summary which the Chairman is calling a Report, then the procedure should be, the Report is tabled, accompanied by a Notice of Motion, then the Motion comes and we debate the Report. This is a deviation from The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I entirely agree with what the Senate Minority Leader has said but to compound this whole process is that the Chair said that they went and made a courtesy call to the County Commissioner. I do not know whether that was part of the proceedings, but it means that there must be a record of the meetings that they held, there must be minutes and those minutes must reflect the outcome of the Report that they have come up with. I think what the Senate Minority Leader is suggesting is the correct way to go. Let that Report be tabled and on the tabling of that Report, a Notice of Motion can be given and then we debate it. On the other hand, the difficulty was that if this Statement would have been handled through the Executive and what was of concern to the Senator for Kakamega, was the violence visited upon the Vice Chancellor. That is an issue that he completely ignored to deal with. In the Constitution, the protection of life and limb is very critical and this Statement is wanting in that particular aspect of the Statement required by the Senator for Kakamega. First, he can table that Report so that we discuss it, but secondly, he must also respond in a form of a Statement to those specific requests which were made by the Senator for Kakamega. He went on a misadventure and we will be part of it but the original request has not been dealt with and we need to deal with that request going through the agencies that are established within the Executive who should have signed the Statement.

Sen. Kagwe, there are too many point of orders so take the shortest time possible.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We are faced with two different issues here; one of them has to do with what Sen. Wetangula raised and that is whether the Committee was exercising its adventures and other uncalled for activities when they visited Eldoret. That is incorrect because there was a ruling which was made here by the Speaker when that same matter arose; the HANSARD will correct me on this one. The ruling was that the Speaker or anybody else cannot direct how a Committee is supposed to come to whatever results, what action they need to take and what visits they can or cannot do. These are purely decisions that must be made by the Committee. As honorable Members, we respect the decisions made by those committees. The second point, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

There is nothing wrong that can be passed by so many hon. Members; and so many hon. Members travelling to Eldoret cannot possibly be wrong; hon. Members are never wrong and they cannot be engaged in misadventures. The second point, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, has to do with this particular document that is with us here in the House. I would agree with those saying that since this document is not signed by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned, I am aware that at The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We will proceed in the following order; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Sang and then Sen. Wangari. Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Constitution – forget about the Standing Orders – the constitution is what gives us power as a Senate or as committees and it says what we should do and on what basis we should act. I sometimes think I say these things too much; but I think I should say it again. Article 125 is clear that when a Committee is acting, it should act as a court and, therefore, they should follow rules of evidence which require that a document must be signed if they are supported, et cetera . There is no other way to describe what the Chairperson has done today other than a flight of fancy, because it really does not meet any threshold; none; zero! Therefore, it is fair that we just set the record straight and forgive the Chairperson for his misadventures and flights of fancy. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, like the Senate Minority Leader has said, I am so saddened because when I rose, there were issues of threats to the life of the Vice Chancellor and other senior officers at the university. There was also the matter of a senior public officer – in this case a Senator – misconducting himself, contrary to the provisions of Article 73 of the Constitution---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Order! We are on a point of order on the procedure; we have not come to the stage of seeking clarification on the substance of the Statement that has been provided.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Secondly, a Senator cannot misconduct himself.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you had given me time to conclude what I was saying, you would have seen that I am speaking to procedure. So, just allow me to---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, just go straight to procedure so that we can come to clarifications, because---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I cannot argue with the Chairperson, but I would also like the Chair to allow me to exercise the freedom of speech on the Floor of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya as provided for in the Constitution. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have not spoken!

I thought you said you wanted to---

I want to speak!

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I think a very good---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! If you want to make a request on a point of order, you know how to do it.

But, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was already on my feet on a point of order and you were trying to guide me.

I have seen your request now; now sit down. I will come back to you. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I think it is very unfortunate that what the Committee on Education intended to do has ended up being misrepresented. One, when we set off for the so-called “misadventure,” it was on a very serious motion. This was a dynamic situation that had happened. Unlike many of the Statements that we seek on the Floor of this House regarding policy and status quo, a riot had taken place in a university and we did not know what the circumstances were. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is talking about evidence; and we collected evidence. We went to the university and decided to be dynamic. Once we were there, we interviewed very many people apart from the Vice Chancellor, the policy makers---

Sen. (Dr.) Zani, you are going to the substance. The question before the House in terms of point of order is whether we have a proper report; whether we can debate it; whether we have a Statement as requested and whether we have something to seek clarification on.

I think we have Statements because we have looked at the report. What needs to happen is for those Statements to be derived from the report; specifically Statements to answer the key questions that were asked within the House. But the answers for the questions that were sought are within that report.

Because we have remained with about 20 minutes for Statements, I want us to move a little bit faster. Proceed, Sen. Sang.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order. I think it is important to appreciate what the Committee did. However, in accordance with The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with Sen. Sang, because procedurally, I think the Chairperson is answering the right question but under the wrong header. If it was asked as a Statement, we would expect that we get a Statement from the CS. But if it is a report, it has to be presented to this House through a Motion which does not need the CS to sign it; it is actually to be owned by the Chairperson of the Committee. So, I pray that you direct that if it is a Statement, it comes through the proper channels and it is tabled the proper way. If it is a Motion to follow that Statement, then let us debate a report which is properly before the House.

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was trying to raise an issue of procedure; I will not go into the details. There were specific issues that I sought. Listening to the Chairperson of the Committee in his summary, he has completely ignored all the issues that we sought. You can see that there are issues of Prof. Kiyiapi and many other things. The Chairperson has actually then gone out to answer things that are not related to what I sought. So, I request the Chair to direct the Chairperson to table the entire answer from the Ministry so that when I go through, it, I can see whether my issues were also dealt with, after they dealt with the ones that he set up himself. Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and without prejudice, I would like to remind you that on such a sensitive issue, given the prejudicial statements that have been attributed to you earlier and elsewhere, do you think your conscience is clear as you try to preside on this very sensitive issue or should you not vacate the Chair so that a Speaker who has not been quoted elsewhere in the manner you have been quoted can then preside over these proceedings. Can you consider disqualifying yourself for this particular matter?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, reports elsewhere are not factual for this House; those are gossips. We do not quote newspapers, blogs or other things in this House. So, do not cast aspersions on the Chair, basically, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I concur with all my colleagues. Is it in order or would I be in order to request that you direct that this document be withdrawn and be properly brought to the House at a later date when it has been owned by the Committee?

Are you done, Professor?

Yes, I think I heard you supported what Sen. Wetangula had said.

He said more than that.

You can repeat it, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I asked if I was in order to request you to order that this document be withdrawn and then be properly worked on and procedurally reintroduced at a later stage by the Committee?

Senate Minority Leader, again, please do it in one minute so that we proceed. We have five other statements to look into.

Just one minute, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We would want to have the work of Committees made easy; but we also want the Chair to direct committees. It does not matter whether the Committee was acting in good faith or not; but procedure is procedure and when a Statement is requested for, the generosity of the Committee to bring us a Report instead of a Statement is unacceptable. Nobody is imputing mala fides on the Committee, but we are saying that they have done a good job badly; it is as simple as that. We would want the Chairperson to make sure the time of this House is not spent in a manner that we are spending it now, simply because a Committee has exceeded its mandate and gone out to bring a Report instead of a Statement.

Very well. Order, hon. Senators! We have to proceed. Sorry, Sen. Ndiema, your request came a little bit late. First of all, I would like to point out that the relevant Standing Order on Statements--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senate Minority Leader. However, if the Committee decides that they must do a report, then the relevant Standing Order is Standing Order No. 203.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

Read Standing Order No. 203, which talks about reports of select Committees and it provides that:- (1) “The report of a Select Committee shall be prepared and kept in the same form as the Votes and Proceedings of a Committee of the Whole and in such other form as may be prescribed in the Committee Manual. (2)The report of a Select Committee having been adopted by a majority of the Senators shall be signed by the Chairperson on behalf of the Committee. (3) If the Chairperson or the vice chairperson is absent or is not readily available, the Select Committee shall nominate another member of the Committee to sign the report.” Then, part Standing Order No.203(4) says:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, you are not the one to order but the one to oblige.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I oblige. Within a week’s time, the statement will be ready.

Let me first listen to your interventions. I will give all of you less than a minute.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this issue is very critical. The university is closed. Innocent children are suffering while others in other universities are going on with their education. We cannot wait longer than a day. If the Chairman is ready, which I believe he is, let us have the statement. Previously he has done a good job and we have praised him here. That seems to have gone into his head and he has forgotten that he should do a good job.

Order, Sen. Wetangula.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I withdraw that.

What do you withdraw?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I withdraw the words “it has gone into his head.”

Then you must apologise.

He is my great friend. I have no problem tendering an apology to him.

Tender that apology to him.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologise. We want the Chairman to appreciate, as we have correctly read in the Standing Orders that in trying to bring the statement, we also as a Senate expect a policy statement from the Executive on when the university will reopen and how they will tackle the problem. That cannot just be in the purview of the Committee. This has to come from the Executive and the line Ministry or the Cabinet Secretary who will help re-open the university. The issues they are talking about like dilapidated facilities among others are within the purview of the Executive. You cannot talk about dissolving the council within six months if things are not resolved when the Executive is holding money that should be used to resolve the issues. Therefore, I want you to direct that the Chairman gets a response from the Ministry and brings a statement tomorrow afternoon. That is not asking for too much. The Ministry offices are close. They can walk there and bring the statement.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The issue that Sen. Khalwale sought from the Chairman was specifically required from the Minister. However, we now know that the Committee engaged in some exercise to find out a few things about the University of Eldoret. Would I be in order to request that you give a direction that we get a statement from the Cabinet Secretary because it is important? We also have a report by the Committee which should be tabled through the normal channels. We should have both processes going on. That is crucial. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In making your statement, there is some confusion that is arising. That is why there is a problem in procedure. There is a difference between a Sessional Committee, a Standing Committee and a Select Committee. When you were giving your directions, you talked about a Select Committee which is quite a different animal from a Standing Committee. A Standing Committee can give a statement within a day or two. However, a select committee is appointed for a very special purpose like the Select Committee that was appointed by Parliament to investigate into the murder of J.M Kariuki and others. That would be a select committee. If we proceed by giving my friend, Mr. Karaba, another week, then the whole idea of requesting for these statements will be undermined. Statements are required because of some urgency. That is why the Speaker may direct that the statement be given on the same day. Be that as it may, would it be in order for us to congratulate Mr. Karaba for doing a good job? He has done extra work and he could lay the Report on the Table. However, with regard to the specific request made by the Senator for Kakamega, could the statement be brought tomorrow? Otherwise, it will lose meaning as it were.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the urgency as it has been well expressed by Sen. Orengo and Sen. Wetangula. However, it is also important for us to appreciate the practicalities of some of these things. As a Chairman of a Committee, I can tell you that it may be difficult to get a statement that is signed by a Cabinet Secretary. It is difficult to say that you will walk into a Cabinet Secretary’s Office to get a statement signed when you do not know whether they are in or not. This is a question of balance between the urgency of the matter which is very clear to all Senators and the importance of coming up with something comprehensive, believable and real. Let us not ask Sen. Karaba to come and make a statement here tomorrow for the benefit of being hanged by this House due to the inadequacy of what he may bring. Let us instead give him the time that he has requested so that he can, on Tuesday, bring a statement that contains the two things; the questions as asked by Sen. Khalwale and the answers from the Minister. I seek the indulgence of our Members.

Let me come to a very important issue. I would like to remind Sen. Orengo who was part of the team that revised the Standing Orders that all Standing Committees are Select Committees. You should have been the one pointing out to me the relevant Standing Order. Standing Order No.208 says; “There shall be Select Committees to be designated Standing Committees which shall be nominated by the Rules and Business Committee in consultation with parliamentary parties at the commencement of every Parliament.” Therefore, all committees are Standing Committees even though others are Sessional. However, all of them are Standing Committees. Secondly, I appreciate, even further, from the interventions of Members, that what Sen. Khalwale wants is a commitment from the Executive. That commitment cannot just come from the Chairperson. It has to come with a signed statement from the policy and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, earlier on, I had stated that this thing is wrong and required more time but some Members still insisted that it was going to take one day. It took us one day to come up with what we have come up with and that time was not even enough. I am still insisting that this is a very weighty matter and if we are not careful, it might lead to precedence to other universities. I am, therefore, requesting that even Tuesday will still be a short time. Give us up to Thursday next week.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what do you think about Thursday?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the compromise here would be, since the Chairman had given a week and we are requesting that it is shortened, Tuesday next week will do.

The Chairman of the Committee is saying Thursday, the person requesting the Statement says Tuesday and the Chair says Wednesday next week and it so ordered. That is a proper middle ground. There was a request by Sen. Musila. Sen. Madzayo, please respond. STATUS OF CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMMES

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have gone through this Statement that I was supposed to give to the House. I noticed that there are quite a number of discrepancies and I would like to have a proper clarification. It is in that regard that I have had a slight discussion with Sen. Musila and I was going to request that I be given until next week to come up with a substantive response together with a duly authenticated list of beneficiaries of this cash transfer. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Did you say you do not have the Statement?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that as I was addressing you, you were busy consulting. I have already made that request. I said I need a bit of time until next week, probably Thursday. That is when I will be able to come up with a comprehensive answer. I have gone through the Statement and I have noticed that there are quite a number of discrepancies in the names of the beneficiaries and the constituencies involved. These names are not arranged in order. It is all mixed up. I would request until Thursday to come with a comprehensive answer. I have already discussed with Sen. Musila.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, indeed, the Chairman has come to me but when he came to me, he had to freeze because you were on your feet. Yesterday, the Chairman read a Statement --- I am told that you are not listening but I think you are listening now.

Order, Sen. Musila! Are you comfortable with the one week or not? Why are you going to many stories?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not and I am explaining why.

So, how long do you want, now that the Chairman does not have the report?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, give me time just as you have given others. I seek your indulgence. I was explaining that the distinguished Chairman read a Statement yesterday. The problem was that I had not been given a copy and he undertook to give me a copy, which he did. So, today it was just a matter of him re-reading, if possible, so that I can interrogate it. However, he has requested that we give him more time and I will graciously do that. Allow me to point out two things. One, this Statement like that one of Sen.Karaba, is not from the Executive. It is actually written by the Chairman but it is not signed. So, if he is asking for more time, let him get more time and even get me a proper Statement signed by the Executive. Second, I had sought that the Chairman gives the breakdown for the number of people receiving their benefits from each of the 47 counties. The Chairman did not attempt to do that. Third, the list he has given of the recipients of the cash transfers from Kitui County, are not properly arranged. As I agree that we give him more time – I will give him as much time as he wants – would I be in order to ask that this time round, let us get the correct information that I have been seeking so that it can serve the purpose for which I was intending?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have already indicated that I will give a comprehensive response to his inquiry. Therefore, I do not think I need further explanations from him.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with a lot of respect to the distinguished Chairman, I am only pointing out that there is something missing in this document; a list of recipients of cash transfers, per county, with the populations indicated. It is not here and that is important for the House to appreciate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

The Chairman of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, did you say you need one week?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Musila, if you may indulge the Chairman to get the comprehensive list that you want and I order that on Wednesday, he delivers the list so that it can be part of the report. I was here when the question was asked and many Members were interested across the many other counties. It is, therefore, important that that is done.

Order, Senators!

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

In relation to what I have already ruled? STATUS OF THE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS STAFF PENSION SCHEME

No. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I sought a Statement from the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on the issue of county pension schemes. The Statement was due on 19th February, 2015, but the Chairperson has not given any indication on how far he has gone.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request that I be given until Tuesday next week. I have already received the Statement.

Okay, we do not want to waste more time. Sen. Sang has nodded in acceptance for Tuesday.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, why do you not want me to finish what I wanted to say?

It is because I am saving time. Once the other Member is not in contention for Tuesday, that is okay.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think everybody should be given a fair hearing. I should be given a chance to be heard. I was on my feet responding and you put me off. Thank you, if that is the behaviour moving forward.

Sen. Madzayo, you have been asked a very simple question and you said that you be given up to Tuesday. I looked at Sen. Sang and he nodded. So, we better save time because this House has been spending a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, according to the answer which he gave us yesterday, we had risen to seek further clarifications. Since this is a House of equity, for us to be satisfied that this Fund is going to all counties evenly, it would be useful that when the Chairperson comes, he should give us the population of people over 65 years old in each county---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You are raising very important issues but you are proceeding on something that I ruled on a very long time ago. In fact, he was responding to something else. On the issue sought by the Senator for Kitui, we ruled a long time ago, but nothing will stop you from consulting with your colleague there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, why do I get this feeling that you have a talent of reading minds?

It is because as soon as---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you do not play with the Chair. Hon. Senators, there is a serious concern that has been raised by all Members that we spend more than four hours on Statements, sometimes arguing over small issues when Bills have been pending since September or October last year. If you see me moving that fast, it is because of that concern. The Rules and Business Committee (RBC) decided today that we should be spending an hour on Statements so that we can be able to proceed to prosecute the Bills. If you look at the Order Paper, you will realize that there are Bills like The Mining Bill (National Assembly Bill No.8 of 2014) which is being awaited by the National Assembly for the final approval. We should actually, going forward, take more seriously matters of Bills, and designate specific time for Statements. Once someone has answered something, we should move forward. If I am sounding a little bit harsh today, it is because Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has pushed me to the wall. Next Order!

There was no one on the Floor, so we can take fresh requests.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to say at the outset that I strongly support the Bill that has been brought to this House under the sponsorship of Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, the Senator for Kisumu County. The spirit of public fundraising has been engrained in the life blood of our nation since we got Independence from Britain in 1963. One cannot over-emphasize how important public fundraising has been. Through public fundraising, we have built schools, hospitals and sponsored children some of whom have become adults and very responsible citizens. They have come back to this country and are now driving the economy of this country from various positions of responsibility in the public and private sector. Through public fundraising and the spirit of harambee, this country has witnessed massive infrastructural development in terms of schools, dispensaries, cattle dips etcetera . Even as we speak about regulating this area, we are speaking about a phenomenon that has transformed our nation. I would say that almost every Kenyan has been touched with the impact of public fundraising. However, this phenomenon of public fundraising has had tremendous challenges and I believe the sponsor of this Bill is bringing this Bill, not to stifle a very worthy programme but to provide an answer to some of the pressing challenges that have informed the experience with public fundraising in Kenya for the last half a century. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one of the biggest challenges in this area has been misappropriation of funds that are raised by the public to support worthy causes. There used to be anecdotes in the 1980s and 1990s that the issue of theft of funds collected through harambees had reached critical levels including stories of heads of institutions who would connive with the so-called donors and supporters of fundraising to raise money which would be shared among the same people who took part in that fundraising. For example, you donate Kshs50,000 to attract a few other people, most of whom would be unknowingly involved, you collect money and divide amongst the few people who have conspired to have this fundraising done. You would have millions of shillings collected, but you could not pinpoint a project which had been targeted for sponsorship through that fundraising. This was pure theft; criminal behaviour. The other challenge has been the fact that public fundraisings have been turned into extortion processes. The greatest recipients of that extortionist behaviour have been political leaders. We have made it a culture in this country and erroneously the people who elected us believe that they elected us to do harambees as part of the job description of Members of Parliament or politicians generally. Mr. Temporary speaker, Sir, every week across this country, in every village, you get about 10 to 20 fundraisers. Some of these fundraisers are worth our attention, contribution and participation. However, the overwhelming majority of these functions or events are nothing but an organized extortionist process to get money especially from politicians. It has now become common to find especially leaders’ names being put in harambee cards. You get about ten cards bearing your name on the same day. You The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I support this Bill. In fact, it has been long overdue. If you can recall, in 2012, there was an amendment when the Elections Act was put together. Then, there was the Statute Law (Miscellaneous Amendment) Act in 2012 where the Elections Act was amended so that anybody who is participating in an election would not hold a harambee eight months prior to the election date. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you saw for yourself in the last elections how important and powerful that particular amendment was; in terms of bringing together issue-based competition during elections rather than simply pouring of money across the constituencies. Part of the Bill, in my opinion, should include extension of that particular miscellaneous amendment to provide that once elected, an individual should not participate in harambees because this causes a lot of abuses. The first abuse is by those who participate in harambees. The question that arises is; where does the money come from? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when an individual goes to a function and we know that his payslip, because we have got pay slips here in the Senate, reads Kshs100,000 and the individual goes on to contribute Kshs600,000 as if he is a tycoon like Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, where is that person assumed to have got money from? Where do you get that money from? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Your time is up, Sen. Kagwe; but I can add you three more minutes.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for that gesture because I would like the Mover of the Bill – the very able Professor – to consider this final point. The Bill proposes numerous committees and, in fact, it creates many centres that are necessarily going to be funded whether by the national Government or by the county administrations. I propose that those committees be eliminated because we will just be creating other centres of corruption. People will go to one of the offices that the Senator The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Bill. Fundraising is a very noble way of assisting the needy in this country. It is good that the Bill does not do away with harambees especially when it is coming from politicians who, as the Senator who has just spoken before me has said, have been held hostage by this system. The public might think that we are running away from responsibility, but as he said, it is not our responsibility. As members of the public, we have to be sensitive and assist the needy when required. Harambee is very important because it assists especially in the provision of facilities like schools, health facilities, and other development projects which the communities can do for themselves through fundraising. But also, more importantly, like in my county, I know of communities which have made sure that none of their children drop out of school through fundraising. They have been doing annual fundraisings which have committees that are supposed to be accountable to the communities for whatever they collect. At the end of each year, they have to give back a record or a report of what they collected and how they spent it. Education is important for people who are pastoralists. These are people whose livelihoods are dependent on animals and with changing climates, it is actually not reliable because you will find that drought might come and all that one owns will perish. Unfortunate incidents like cattle rustling will happen and you will lose everything in a day. So, the whole family will be destitute and children will not continue with their education. So, this is a very noble idea and if used positively, then it will assist the needy. Even in the case of hospital bills, which the families cannot bear, then this is a way out. However, we have seen in many instances where this fundraising spirit has been abused by people collecting funds from the public and then using it for personal development because they know that they will not be accountable to anybody. I think that is what is being addressed here. There is also no follow up mechanism; somebody will get the money; it is his money and even if he goes to buy a car, then you cannot take him anywhere because you gave it voluntarily. So you cannot again go and hold him responsible for misusing your fund. So it is good, as, legislators, to come up with ways of regulating and controlling how public funds are collected and spent. As the other leaders have stated, the politicians have been very much on the receiving end of this and unless it is regularized and unless there is a system of doing it, then we will always be facing these situations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Bill and to thank Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o for bringing it in a timely way. Harambees or public fundraisings have been a noble idea. They have helped us out of many situations in the past and will continue to do so. Many people, in one way or another, in needy The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow Thursday, 12th March, 2015, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.