Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of visiting staff and students from Tangaza University College seated in the Speaker’s Gallery. The students have visited the Senate today as part of their study on Sustainable and Collaborative Leadership for Development. I commend them for choosing the Senate as a House of Parliament to gain a few tips on collaborative leadership as a concept we have been implementing as a House. In our long standing tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors, I take this opportunity, on behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, to extend a warm welcome to the staff and the students of Tangaza University College. I wish them a fruitful visit to our House.

Sen. Wangari, you have one minute.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to join you in welcoming the students from Tangaza University College, especially at this time that we are expecting to host the Pope towards the end of the year. I want to encourage them, even as they engage in this learning process, that they also intercede for us and pray for the leadership of this country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for welcoming my fellow Catholics. As a practicing Catholic, I am delighted to see them in the Speaker’s Gallery. I had an opportunity a moment ago to say hello to the delegation and shook hands with each of those nuns seated up there. I now feel very holy. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Sijeny, it is now your opportunity. However, I was wondering whether the Senate Minority Leader had now reached his Damascus.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to join you to welcome the visitors from Tangaza University College. I am more delighted because I can see most of them, if not all, are ladies. I know that when you educate a lady, you educate the whole nation. I know that they shall intervene in a very special manner giving it a ladies and a spiritual touch. Welcome and God bless you.

Finally, Sen. Karaba.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for also allowing me to welcome the Tangaza University College sisterhood who are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. As the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, I feel proud that we have sisters coming in the name of a university. We need to know about it and why there are no men.

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 14th October, 2015:- Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Kiambu for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Kiambu County Executive for the year ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Uasin Gishu for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Nandi for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Makueni County Government for the year ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Isiolo County Government for the year ended 30th June, 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Lamu County Executive for the year ended 30th June, 2014. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 14th October, 2015. The Public Finance Management (State Officers and Public Officers Motor Car Loan Scheme Fund) Regulations, 2015.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget relating to the stability of small banks and alarming interest rates. In the statement, the Chairperson should explain:- (1) What was the reason for placing Imperial Bank and Dubai Bank in receivership? (2) What is causing the alarming rise in interest rates in all banks, which is bound to affect persons with mortgages, businesses with loans and, indeed, our national economic performance negatively? (3) What mitigating action is the national Treasury taking to avoid a financial run of the tier-two banks? (4) What immediate action can the Ministry take to confirm to the general public that small banks in the country are stable?

Is the Chairperson here? Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is a serious statement. In the absence of the Chairperson and Vice Chairperson and given the fact that the question has been asked by a Member of my Committee, we shall expedite and have a response on Thursday, next week.

It is so directed.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Members, I have a Communication to make on the mode of dressing in the House. You may recall that yesterday, Tuesday, 13th October, 2015, the Senator for Migori County, Sen. (Dr.) Machage, rose on a point of order and sought the guidance of the Chair on whether the Senator for Tana River County, Sen. Bule, was properly dressed within the meaning of our rules and practices. For the benefit of Senators who were not in the House at that time, Sen. Bule was dressed in a black checked kanzu with a matching jacket and a cap. I allowed several Senators to comment on the matter and consequently undertook to give a ruling on the matter to the extent that I was asked to expedite it just in case another Member comes in traditional regalia, with a sword. After listening to the debate that ensued on the matter, I isolated the following issues as requiring my consideration- (1) whether or not, it is proper for a Senator to enter this Chamber while dressed in a kanzu, (2) what acceptable dress code for the Chamber is; and, (3) whether Sen. Ali Bule was properly dressed during that particular sitting. Hon. Senators, before I deliver my ruling on this matter, let me apprise the Senate on the current requirements and practices obtaining in our Parliament and even in other Parliaments. In our case, the manner of dressing is provided for in Chapter One, Rule Five of the Speaker’s Rules which provides, I quote:- “Members are required not to enter the Chamber, lounge or dinning room without being properly dressed.” “Proper dressing” is defined as “a coat, tie, long trousers, socks and shoes or service uniform or decent national dress for men; and equivalent standard for women with hats being optional.” Hon. Senators, the question of proper dress or otherwise in the House as defined in the rule that I have just quoted, has been a recurring matter in our Parliament over the last 50 years or so. As Senators may expect, several communications have been made on the matter. For instance, on 16th April, 1968, the Chair while responding to an objection on the dressing of a Member ruled as follow:- “Hon. Members, as I have said on other occasions, we have no Standing Orders concerning dress which I can enforce. It rests on the collective opinion of the House as to what is or is not proper dressing. If Mr. Mbogoh does not meet with the approval of hon. Members, he will doubtless hear about it.’ Similarly, on 24th March, 1993, the Chair then ruled as follows on the same subject, and I wish to quote:- “Hon. Members, this morning an issue arose as to whether Hon. Shikuku, MP for Butere, was properly dressed as per the Speaker’s Rules regulating the conduct of Members of the National Assembly. The hon. Member was dressed in long trousers, shirt, bow tie and a sleeves outer The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for that ruling and guidance. However, yesterday Sen. Bule was actually wearing clothes that had multiple colours. It was not just black. I do not know whether that fits in your description of proper dressing. Secondly, you have not exhaustively addressed the issue of the manner of dressing of our colleague ladies. We have also seen some of them enter these Chamber skimpily dressed in a manner that is inconsistent with what we expect a distinguished Senator of this House to dress. We hope that you will also enforce those rules seriously. These proceedings are always broadcast live. We want Kenyans out there, when they look at the contexture of the Senate and the attire of Senators, to see a distinguished House of Kenyans that Kenya look at, in not just form, but also substance in everything that we do. Finally, you ruled that people can wear hats. Is it a religious tarbush or any hat even like the one that the President of South Sudan spots anywhere? Could we also come here wearing cowboy hats as long as we are in suits? You have just said we can wear hats as part of our distinguished attire. Lastly, how do you, as a Speaker, or any Senator for that matter, determine whether a distinguished male Senator with a pair of trousers up to the ankle is wearing a pair socks or not, now that you have also said that socks is part of the attire?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, not to defend you, but to clarify. My understanding in respect to wearing of hats was that it referred to lady attire, not to men attire. As for ladies, I do not know the conflicting position between what Sen. Wetangula is proposing and what is popularly known as ‘my dress my choice’.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your ruling. However, we want to hear your comment if we all appeared here in our religious attire. I have in mind

uniform, Legio Maria regalia, Dini ya Musambwa and so on.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question of hats has been addressed by Sen. Kagwe. However, the manner in which Sen. Bule was dressed yesterday, you have very well described it. I am surprised that the Leader of the Minority is either deaf or he does not want to listen to what the Speaker said. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your wise ruling. I want to say that in one of the decisions you quoted, it was about a white kanzu . Of late, k anzus come in various colours and patterns for the information of my colleagues. This is not a traditional regalia. Indeed, I said yesterday and a few Members wanted to challenge me, it is an Islamic mode of dressing. I shall put it like that and thank you for ruling again.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry I came a little late in the middle of your ruling, which I agree with entirely. However, I did not get you very clearly because I think it is in the tradition amongst the gentlemen who are Members of Parliament that you have a buttoned collar. I thought I heard such an expression. Yesterday, my friend, Sen. Bule did not have a collar nor a buttoned shirt. That needs to be made clear because I can also decide to come with a casual smart wear. The tradition has been, even if it is religious, the good example is that worn by Senator for Garissa. The shirt must be collared and buttoned up, but not an open neck. That would go against the traditions of the House.

Order, Members! Of course, this kind of a ruling always elicits some lights moments. The Senate Majority Leader has given the sufficient dose. I just want to comment that I gave the definition of proper dressing as a coat, tie, long trousers, socks and shoes or service uniform or decent national dress for men and an equivalent standard for women with hats as an option. So, the hats are clearly for the women. However, the most important point I was making is about the dignity of the House. The manner of dressing must reflect the dignity of the House and the individual Senator. As to whether Senators have the option of coming in their various religious attires as mentioned by Sen. (Dr.) Machage, we will cross that bridge when we reach there. I agree with Sen. Haji that it depends on a common practice. If you just decide to do it for the sake of it, and we know you do not belong to that faith, it will a bit difficult for the Chair to entertain you dressed in a manner that is not consistent with your faith. The difficulties, of course, are to determine which faith you belong to. However, I believe that when we take records initially you have to indicate which faith you belong then we can use that. As to Sen. Mutahi Kagwe’s ‘my dress, my choice’, that is not for here. Here, we have defined proper dressing. So, the choices are a bit limited to the definition of proper dressing. Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to second this Motion. I will deal with four thematic areas as to how we arrived at this. From the outset, I thank the Committee Members and the Secretariat for having availed themselves to many, about 20, meetings that we had. This document has neither leaked to the Press nor discussed anywhere yet it would have found its way out to the public before we presented it. Madam Temporary Speaker, the Committee was known as “the Murkomen Committee.” My Chairman delved into some details on this. I just want to put it into perspective the motive, experiences on the process and summarize how we arrived at the conclusions that we have. In terms of the experiences, there has been concern in this Republic about why we need to amend the Constitution. Five years later, the experiences in other jurisdictions - I have three - show that we have waited for too long to consider whether or not we need to amend the Constitution. In India, the Constitution was adopted in 1950. However, 18 months later, that was 18th June, 1951, the first amendment was made. Since then, several amendments have been made. The amendment on affirmative action is actually amendment No.208 in the Republic of India. Therefore, we are doing poorly in that respect. Secondly, in the United States of America (USA), the Constitution was ratified on 21st June, 1788. The first amendment was done on 25th September, 1789. That was one year and three months later. Back home in South Africa, the Constitution came into effect on 4th February, 1997. The first amendment was done on 29th August, 1997. That was six months and two weeks later. Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, in terms of experience and research, this Committee has made the inevitable conclusion that this is the right time to consider the proposed amendments to our Constitution. We agreed unanimously that we would not get into what has been described in the Press quite wrongly as “a superiority debate” between the National Assembly and Senate. Our motivation was to protect the institution of the Senate and Chapter 11 of the Constitution. For the record, we have quoted Advisory Opinion No.2 of the Supreme Court where we challenged our participation in the Division of Revenue Bill. Allow me to quote what the Supreme Court said just for the sake of record:- “Kenya has had a long but checkered history with decentralization. The country has experienced all three main aspects of decentralization; deconcentration, delegation and now, devolution. These have had political, administrative and physical dimensions. Most of these efforts have been inspired by fear of domination and discomfort with rising horizontal inequalities on one hand and, on the other, a desire to take resources and services closer to the people. In this respect, decentralization has been a product of both fear and aspiration and emotionally mixed venture. This fact has been a major element in the country’s tribulations.” Madam Temporary Speaker, the Supreme Court further said that at Independence, Kenya adopted the most radical form of decentralization which had regional assemblies, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I will give one intervention to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. Take your seat, Senator.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for the Seconder of the Motion to read verbatim and address himself instead of addressing the House?

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo from where I sit from this vintage position, I see him making reference from time to time. He is not reading verbatim.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not.

Proceed

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am about to finish. I was reading that:- “These other elements include Treasury which plays a significant role in the public finance matters.”

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, please, listen because this is important. It continues:- “Parliament which requires a functional Senate to provide sufficient protection to the devolved governments and to ensure there is no gridlock in the budgetary or legislative process. Judiciary, particularly the Supreme Court, whose mandate under Article 163(6) is to give an advisory opinion on any matter The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me a chance to support this very important Motion. I speak as a Member of the Committee and I wish to compliment my Chairperson and the Vice Chairperson for moving this Motion very well. However, I have a few things to elaborate. The Constitution that was passed in 2010 was a culmination of attempts on constitutional making for nearly 20 years. Before this Constitution was passed, there was representation from religious leaders who cautioned us not to rush too fast. We did not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. First, let me also join my colleges who have spoken particularly Sen (Eng.) Muriuki, who has congratulated both the Chair and the Vice Chair of the Committee. I must admit that this Committee was chaired by the youngest amongst us. I think they gave very effective leadership in conducting its affairs, until we came up with the draft which was agreeable and acceptable to all the Members of the Committee. I also want to comment the sprit under which discussions were carried out in this Committee in the sense that they were carried out in a bipartisan manner. It was a contest of ideas and positive debate other than contestation on political issues or matters which were not relevant to the discussion that we were having in this particular Committee. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to say very boldly that if the Senate continues to operate the way we are operating, I think it should be disbanded. The way we are operating at the moment, and looking at our legislative records, in the last three years, only four or five Bills have gone through the Senate and have received presidential assent. Three of those were actually Bills which were required and were mandatory under the Constitution. The only legislation which has come from this Senate directly, that had no constitutional bearing was the Sang Bill. We know what eventually happened to the Sang Bill. The court discussed it and came to the conclusion that it had certain provisions which are not in line with the Constitution. In effect, it looks like the Senate is merely a sinecure. A sinecure is a position that exists in all for the glamour and the glory but without any power or authority. It is matter of great injustice to the makers of this Constitution, that at the end of the day, despite that the design and structure of this Constitution that what the Senators will merely be doing here is to sit and debate without the authority of legislation. The Constitution is quite clear that legislative authority of the Republic is in both the Senate and the National Assembly at the national level and in the county assemblies at the county level. I want to say this in order to persuade our brothers in the National Assembly that the way power is distributed in a modern Constitution, and if we really believe in constitutional democracy, is that power is distributed not just within the traditional three arms of government, but even within the arms of government be it the executive, power is distributed. This is in effect to make sure that the functions of Government take effect efficiently and there is accountability and the requirements and needs of the people are met. For example, in the Executive, we glorify the presidency as a very powerful position The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to also contribute in support to this wonderful Motion. If this Motion came in 2010 before the promulgation of the new Constitution, it would have been defeated. Now that we are out of 2010, 2012 and are now in 2015, we have had many problems coming from the National Assembly affecting us. It is as a result of the problems that we have undergone that has made this Motion relevant and popular among Senators.

I remember when my friend, Sen.Wako, was the Attorney-General (AG), there was the Wako Draft and it is like it was trying to convince us that the Senate at that time was not supposed to be very strong. Reading through it, you see now we have Sen. Wako here as one of the Senators. I am sure you will support a different view from what the Wako Draft was all about. I am happy that the Naivasha I and II might have a lot of impact ---

Sen. Karaba, do you want to be informed?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not mind. Let us hear it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the so called Wako Draft was not actually Wako Draft. It was a draft directed to the Attorney-General (AG) to draft specifically by Parliament at that time, which said: “We want the draft along the following lines.” So, it was Wako Draft I and it failed. Wako Draft II, which is now the current draft went through. Again, this was a product of Parliament. Both were Wako Drafts. If this one goes through, Sen. Murkomen may claim the amendments to the Constitution. However, as Chairman of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, I would say it is part of Wako III now.

Except your last comments, the rest are okay.

Thank you for that information, Sen. Wako. That time he was the Attorney-General (AG) and we have a lot of respect for him and the Office of the Attorney-General (AG). He was the legal advisor of Government on what was to happen both for the Constitution and also the formation of the two Houses. What happened in 2013 after we were elected, some of us were elected on a platform that we least new about. We were elected as Senators and we did not know what the functions of the Senate were to be. Some governors were elected without even the knowledge of what they were to do. They were elected on the platform that they were to be the owners or the ones in charge of counties. Senators were supposed to provide oversight over the same counties. However, little was done to come up with the nitty- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. Murkomen)

Shukran sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa nafasi hii. Ninafikiri kwa vile jana tulianza na tabia ya kuzungumza Kiswahili kidogo mpaka leo, bado naona ile lugha ya Kiswahili iko katika gia. Mwanzo kabisa ninataka kukushukuru Kamati yako akiwa Naibu wa Mwenyekiti Seneta Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., na mawakili wakubwa katika Seneti hii pamoja na ndugu zetu ambao si mawakili ambao walikaa katika Kamati hii kama vile Sen. Lesuuda, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, Sen. Billow, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale na Sen. Halima Abdille. Hii inaonyesha kwamba huu ni mchanganyiko, kwamba si tu kufuatia hisia za wanasheria na kujifanya kwamba wanasheria ndio wanafahamu kila kitu, lakini ni kuchukua hisia za Wakenya wote kwa ujumla ili tuweze kunufaisha hii harakati yetu. Bw. Spika wa Muda, tulijaribu harakati kama hii miaka miwili iliyopita na kidogo tukafikia ukingoni bila yale madhumuni yetu kuafikiwa. Nafikiria sasa baada ya kukaa katika hili Jumba la Seneti kwa muda mrefu zaidi, tumejua wapi Jumba hili linavuja, na tunaambiwa kuna wakati mtu anafaa kubadilisha katiba na wakati haufai. Lakini mimi ninasema hata kama nyumba ni mpya, kama inavuja lazima uzibe ule ufa ama utaenda kujenga nyumba nzima. Hata kama gari ni jipya latoka DT Dobie, kama breki haifanyi lazima uende ukatengeneze breki ama uende ukapata ajali. Nafikiria hivi ndio tunajaribu kufanya leo. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank the Mover of this Motion and the Seconder for a very well researched presentation this afternoon. A lot has been said. As Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki said, devolution is working. When you go out there, you will find a number of people who appreciate what the Senate is doing. It is this Senate that will make this country a better place in future because this is the House where you will find sober minds and people with dignity. Madam Temporary Speaker, the laws of Kenya have been put down. It is only appropriate that people respect the laws that have been laid down and follow them. It is very disturbing to see what we have gone through for the few years that we have been here. When you take matters to court, they are sent back to you. I will challenge the Mover of this Motion on that. I used to watch him a lot on television talking about the Constitution when he was in the civil society. It is time civic education was started for Kenyans who think that they are in the Legislature and, therefore should not respect the laws that have been laid down. It is very unfortunate to see laws being violated. It is time – as we review these laws – that civic education was started again. Maybe we rushed to have the Constitution; that some people did not get enough time to understand and digest in order to respect it. Dignity begins with respect. If you do not respect what you are doing, then, obviously, you are failing. I have just returned from touring a beautiful Senate in Mexico. It is bigger than the White House. It is, indeed, a supreme House. You feel shaken when you enter it. The The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, like those who have come before me, I am proud of the Committee. I thank the House for having suggested that I sit in the Committee. I am aware that today, we are marking a time when Members of the Committee are celebrating the sweat of their industry, especially demonstrated by the commitment. We never had issues of quorum. We also had high levels of confidentiality to the extent that this Report is now reaching the public for the first time because there were no leakages. The Committee was co-chaired by Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., both who are first timers in politics and they have done such a good job. That is a vote of confidence for the youth of this country. I congratulate them for that. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to tell Kenyans that ours as a Committee – if this House approves – is a mere proposal. We are coming to Kenyans with our proposal which, according to me, will – with effect from today – signal the beginning of a sober and honest national conversation. In the conversation, we want to talk to ourselves, our groups, our communities and the nation called Kenya on critical issues. According to me, the critical issues are that this draft is attempting to address the issue of vetting of public officers in critical public offices. This exercise has been going on under the new Constitution and many Kenyans think that the process of vetting as it is today could be better. When the National Assembly is conducting a vetting, you wonder why they subject a qualified person to petty questions like they asked the Governor of Central Bank. I do not want to repeat that kind of pettiness. Now that we have restructured it to provide that when it comes to offices where a public officer will enjoy the security of tenure, under the Constitution, meaning that he will be in office not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. Lesuuda is on a point of order. We will hold your time. Proceed, Sen. Lesuuda.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would not have loved to interrupt Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale but is he in order to mislead this House and the country that having the Nominated MCAs, Senators or MPs; that we were not fulfilling a mandate in the Constitution on issues that are therein? We all passed it and it indicates that we should not have more than two-thirds of either gender. We are not even yet there. So, saying that we scrap it without giving an option on how we will meet that mandate; is he in order?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, expound.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg Sen. Lesuuda to understand that---

I will allow the point of order from Sen. Njoroge. We are holding your time, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senator for Kakamega whom I really respect in order to insinuate that Nominated Members of this House and especially ones with disability do not add any value to this House as he does when he represents Kakamega County? How many times did the Senator contribute on matters relating to disability when we had no representatives of persons with disabilities in Parliament? How many times did he advocate for the rights of persons with disabilities as an MP. Is he in order to mislead this House?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, respond to those interventions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am persuaded that, indeed, I am in order because during debate, a Senator is expected to advance his thinking to persuade the other Senators to agree with him or her. I am in order to that extent. However, if you do not agree with me, you do so through a rebuttal. I am a medical doctor and I know the difference between somebody living with disability and somebody who is lucky not to live with a disability. Therefore, I want the country to know that in no way, I am suggesting inability of persons with disabilities to articulate their issues. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are getting out of order. You are not answering the issues as presented very soberly by the two Senators. They are asking you to elaborate why you are trying to imply that it is the Nominated Senators whose presence is costing the Government and if they are not here by right of a provision in the Constitution. Please, address that as you respond.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thought that is the obvious. The fact that they are there is obvious because it is provided for in the Constitution but I am now talking about the Kenya of the future. We want to sort out these things once and for all. If there is a way we can do it better, and I am saying we can, you can easily in this country provide that instead of the one-third rule, you put it 50-50 but in appointive offices so that when you tell the President, that he or she will not form the Government unless 50 per cent of his or her Cabinet Secretaries are women; for the reason that they are nominated.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Cabinet Secretaries are not nominated. They are appointed because they are qualified to occupy those offices. You are still not addressing the issues that are being raised. Your clarification is now implying that we go back to the former system where the Committee of Experts found it necessary to have representatives of these specific clusters of people because over the years, there was a vacuum of representation. Therefore, for example, when persons with disabilities were included through a provision in the Constitution, it is because it was felt that over the years they were not adequately represented by those who are not living with disability on matters of legislation. This is the matter that Sen. Njoroge is raising. Sen. Lesuuda has also aptly put the issue of representation of women after a lot of interrogation. You need to address that issue because we are live and this will go into the HANSARD. What are the facts that you are presenting to the Senate to expound on that matter that we need to scrap it? What is your alternative mode of representing these two categories of people?

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me put it in the bigger picture. People who compete for elections must demonstrate to the youth and persons with disabilities that when they get into office, they will address their concerns. We may run away from it but the truth is that our elective positions are bloated. I have articulated all of them right from the number of constituencies touching on the number of MPs, reducing the number of governors, Senators and MCAs. Therefore the reduction is not targeting persons with disabilities; it is targeting a national problem. If these things will not work one day, a time will come when some of us will run for presidency. We will approach Kenyans, and say that if I am your president I would want do things in a better way. That is what leadership entails that you cannot lift a country to the next level if you keep on doing things the same way, done badly in the past.

I will allow that intervention again from Sen. Njoroge. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam, Temporary Speaker. I am really disturbed. Does it mean that representation of women, persons with disability and the youth is not a matter of national interest in this country? Is Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale implying that this institution known as Parliament is not supposed to have either of the three categories, women, youth and persons with disability? He is really advising that we should be appointed in other position but not Parliament .Is he in order?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am fully aware that those are the opinions of Sen. (Dr) Khalwale but, I would like to raise one issue on whether he is in order to mislead this House in all the other representation areas he has talked about reducing and that representation will still be there but he is merging the counties to form viable economic units. Those areas will still be represented. The positions that are there through nomination, he said very clearly that they need to be scrapped. How are those areas going to be represented?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order that a long serving legislator who knows the roles and the rules of this country to mislead the House? The Constitution of Kenya is very clear on party nominations. So, is he in order? He is telling us that the Nominated Senators are not supposed to be there.

Thank you. Let me answer Sen. Kittony first. It is the Constitution that we are trying to amend for it to suit our situation and I am giving my thoughts. Sen. Njoroge said that people living with disabilities cannot win an election. I want to inform him that hon. Timothy Wanyonyi, Member of Parliament for Westlands won an election; the late Dr. Ellon Wameyo worn an election; Sen. Leshore worn an election; Sen. Hassan of Kamukunji worn an election as far as the youth are concerned. I now want to address Sen. Lesuuda, just take a bit of time and google the American Constitution. It says that you cannot enter the Senate unless you are 35 years and above. We want to align our Constitution with the best international practices. There is no point of trying to imagine that you can reinvent the wheel. This conversation that I am speaking to is going on in this country. Who said that a woman cannot win an election? None other than Speaker Ongoro has worn an election in some of the most competitive constituency in Nairobi; Kasarani Constituency. It is a lie, we are living a lie, we live in a moment of comfort, and we do not want to challenge ourselves so that we make our country better. Here you are stuck, you cannot even be paid your milage claim; people are getting their salaries late, it is not by chance. We have to manage the administration on the cost of running the country. You do not attack the disabled alone, I have attacked all the positions so that we manage this, and I want to be persuaded to move away from that thinking.

Order, Senator! The last intervention from Sen. Njoroge and we will have to conclude with the Senator.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for the Senator to continue misleading the nation through this House? Sen (Dr.) Khalwale has this kind of a feeling that among the seats to be scrapped so that the country can really improve its economic status; what if it comes to voting, can he really vote for a person with disability if he has this kind of feeling? If he feels that right now he is not comfortable being here with those three groups, when this country was fighting for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I think with all due respect, you are now over burdening me with your own opinion.

Order! Senator that is not unparliamentarily language. He is in order because he rose on a point of order and I granted it. You need to respond to the specific issue that he is rising. He is not overburdening you; you have a responsibility towards this House and towards Kenyans to expound what exactly you mean.

Madam Temporary Speaker, because I am addressing the nation. I want the nation to know that I am advancing my opinion and the opinion of those as many as they are who think that we should address the issue of the cost of maintaining the administrative structure under the new Constitution. In that opinion, I am not vindictive, I have addressed all the sects knowing that in the eyes of the Lord, living with or without disability we are all equal, and I have confirmed that many people have won elections and will continue to do so. I know these things better than Sen. Njoroge. Today, you do not have a disability, tomorrow you have one because you become one by getting involved in an accident. So, it is neither here nor there, we want all Kenyans to be looked at as equals. We should make sure that we level the playing ground for various people to enjoy access to the electorate. In fact, in my mind the biggest challenge the youth have, the women, and the persons living with disabilities is accessing the voter. Many people once they access the voter, people realise that this is a better leader this is the Kenya I want where all people are equal; people to compete equally and they get what they want. Today, the Kenya you have is where people access offices based on ethnicity, friendship and nepotism. That is a bad way and is just another way of running our country. In the fullness of time, this debate of reducing the number of constituencies and counties so that they become economically viable, scraping positions that can otherwise have the intentions of having those offices achieved in a more inclusive way, is the thing of the future. The current situation is dynamics of emotions. Let me tell you, Members, because some of us played a very critical role in the fight to pass this Constitution; I remember sitting in certain meetings where people were agreeing that if you do not include this clause here, this Constitution --- I support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I join my colleagues in thanking and congratulating the Senate Select Committee on Constitutional and Legal Review that came up with this Report. It is just two years since we elected office bearers after the Constitution came into effect. We remember that this Constitution was promulgated on 27th August, 2010 at 10.27 a.m. when it was released and the old one withdrawn. You know the whole story as Kenyans can attest. A rigorous campaign took place in May and June prior to the voting for this Constitution. There was a group that said “No” and another that said “Yes”. After the General Election, the two groups were accommodated and we even have some Senators who were elected but they had wanted the Constitution to be delayed because they thought it had issues. However, majority of Kenyans said;“Let us pass it.”That was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Senator.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion that is before us and also to commend the Chairman and the Vice-Chair of this Committee which I was a member. I also had the privilege of sharing experience with distinguished Senators who thoroughly looked at the issues that pertain to this House and this institution. I remember very well that one of the things that we clearly spelt out before even we started our work was to say that we are not looking at how to make the Senate the Upper House for the sake of it, because of our past relationships with National Assembly, or a way of weakening the National Assembly. At all times, that was our guiding principle as a Committee. The other guiding principle was that we need to strengthen the institution; the House itself as a Senate. That is why, earlier on, many of my colleagues have said that many of us will not be in this House come the next elections. But the need of having a strong Senate for the purpose of the new system of governance that we have is very critical, beyond each one of us, beyond any Member in this House or even in the National Assembly. Madam Speaker, it was also interesting to note, and it is something that we have talked about for a long time and it is also an observation that I noticed since we came to this House; we said that for a long time the Senate has been weak. The Senate cannot execute its mandate, but it was interesting to note that many of those who sit in this institution now, sat in the Tenth Parliament which actually worked a lot to make sure that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante sana, Bi. Spika wa Muda kunipa nafasi hii ili niungane na Maseneta wenzangu kuunga mkono Hoja hii muhimu. Ukiisoma Hoja hii, unafaa kujiuliza inapendekeza nini. Hoja hii inataka mabadiliko katika Katiba ili kuifanya Seneti hii kuwa na nguvu. Inafaa tujiulize ikiwa ni kweli kwamba Seneti haina nguvu. Jibu la swali hili ni kuwa Seneti haina nguvu. Kwanza tunafaa kuwasifu Wanakamati wa Kamati hii. Kamati hii iliwajumuisha mawakili wanne waliokolea katika taaluma ya uwakili. Nilipotazama vizuri, niliona kuwa ilikuwa na akina dada wawili wazuri sana na walio na elimu ya juu. Ukitazama vizuri, utaona kwamba Kamati hiyo iliundwa na watu walio na busara. Bi. Spika wa Muda, Hoja hii inaazimia kutia nguvu ugatuzi. Tunafaa kujiuliza iwapo ugatuzi katika nchi yetu kulingana na Katiba ya sasa uko hatarini. Ukiangalia vizuri, utapata kuwa ugatuzi uko hatarani. Hii ni kwa sababu ilibidi twende kortini kufuatia Mswada kuhusu Ugawanyaji wa Pesa au Revenue Allocation Bill . Mswada wa pili, ulijulikana kama “Sang Bill.” Mswada huu ulitaka bodi iundwe lakini pia ulikatizwa. Mswada wa tatu uliohusu oversight vilevile ukakataliwa. Tunataka ushahidi gani zaidi ya huo kuonyesha kwamba Seneti hii iko hatarini? Tuko hatarani kwa mujibu wa ushahidi ulioko sasa. Ndio maana niliketi hapa kwa muda mrefu nikisubiri kupewa nafasi ili kuongeza sauti yangu kuunga mkono Hoja hii kwa sababu ugatuzi ni kitu kizuri sana. Bi. Spika wa Muda, tunafaa kuwasifu wale ambao si wezi lakini majizi ya pesaa za umma yanafaa kulaniwa. Tumeona watu wengine wakinunua likwama moja kwa Kshs109,000. Kama huo si wizi, basi ni nini? Huo ni wizi ulio wazi. Ndio maana tunasema kuwa majizi yalaumiwe kwa wizi na wale wanaofanya kazi vizuri wasifiwe. Ndio maana nasema ya kwamba tuwe na utaratibu na mabadiliko kwa kubadilisha Katiba. Haya hayakuanza leo. Sisi katika mrengo wa the Coalition for Reforms and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I was almost tempted to speak in Kiswahili, but once the Senator of Kwale County has spoken, I will not be doing justice to the Kiswahili language. From the onset, let me take this opportunity to commend the team which put this Report to embark on this very gigantic task. Where there is a will, there is always a way. Since we came to this Senate almost two and a half years ago, we have been faced with challenges. Our role has been to defend devolution. We have tried effectively to do that without the necessary instruments. Madam Temporary Speaker, problems emanated from how we were composed. The problem with the Constitution 2010 was copy and paste. Today we have a Constitution which was overwhelmingly supported by Kenyans. This Constitution is 80 per cent perfect. We told Kenyans that in the subsequent years, we will have to panel beat the 20 per cent to have a perfect and progressive Constitution. The welfare of Senators and Members of the National Assembly is taken care of by the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). That was a very big mistake. We ceded one position as a Senate that since we are few, we do not need to have enough equal number of commissioners. It was an oversight because it was not put anywhere in the Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Boy Juma Boy mentioned that we do not have to talk about the past. We have to think of history so that we focus on the future. Most of the senior Senators in this House contributed in diluting the powers of the Senate. I have been on record on saying that. They went to Naivasha and diluted the powers, but now they have realised that the only pillar of devolution is the Senate. Unanimously, we need to embark on this road which is tedious, but we have the will to move forward. These recommendations require a referendum. We need to do a lot of outreach to the Kenyans who regard us as their defenders in terms of effectively fighting for devolution. I got surprised two years ago when we had a meeting with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). She mentioned that she does not know the role of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Temporary Madam Speaker, I thank the Select Committee for a job well done. This Committee was comprised of very serious members of the society. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senator! You will have 13 minutes tomorrow if you wish to conclude your contribution. Hon. Senators, it is time for interruption of business of the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stand adjourned till tomorrow, Thursday 15th October, 2015 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.