Hon. Senators, we have Statements that we deferred from yesterday’s sitting. Let us start with the Statement listed as 1(d) on the status of the new NHIF rates. Sen. Kittony, if you may proceed. THE STATUS OF THE NEW NHIF RATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member who requested this Statement is not in the House.

Order, Senator! We are on the statement listed as 1(d). The Senator who sought the Statement is Sen. George Khaniri. The last time I checked, which was this morning, he was and still is the same one this afternoon.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you called out Statement 1(b). If it is Statement 1(d), it has already been referred to the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. It is no longer in our hands. I have already advised Sen. Khaniri to that effect. I hope I am in order.

Sen. Khaniri, let me hear from you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know you did not hear her sentiments because you were consulting. She says that my Statement has been referred to the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. My understanding on matters to do with healthcare is that they are squarely under the Committee on Health. We will need your ruling here. When I put this Statement I thought the Committee on Health would be best suited to respond to this issue. However, she says they have sent it to the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. This Statement has been pending for the last four months---

Order, Senators! This is a Statement by a Senator to the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Health. Under which circumstances was it referred to another committee? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was advised to that effect by the Committee Clerk, that the Statement has been referred to the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.

Referred by who?

By the Clerk, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I cannot give a Statement which I do not have.

Order, Senator. Yesterday you promised to present this Statement before this House today. I challenged you. I said: “If you do not have a Statement, how do you promise to deliver it the following day?” You said by today, you would deliver it. That was only yesterday afternoon. Exactly 24 hours ago.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with that. However, I am giving you the latest information that I got. Either we take it---

Of course, I cannot take it or leave it. My job is to dispose it off, somehow.

Well, Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Order, Senator! You do not argue with the Chair. Resume your seat. Let me find out the circumstances under which that wrong advice was given to you and then I will come back to the matter. Let us move to Statement listed as 1(e) on the death of Mr. Alex Madaga. This Statement is still for you, Sen. Kittony as it concerns health matters. Hon. Senators, please, follow the Order Paper. These Statements are listed there. DEATH OF MR. ALEX MADAGA FOLLOWING A ROAD ACCIDENT

Mr. Speaker, Sir, they have not been able to get the Cabinet Secretary. So, the situation is similar to that of yesterday. The statement is ready, but the Cabinet Secretary has not appended his signature.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I sought the Statement listed as 1(c) and we agreed that it would be issued today. I believe that Sen. Kittony should be able to issue it now.

Order! Sen. Billow, I see you are on a point of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, a couple of weeks ago, there was a ruling in this House by the Speaker that the Cabinet Secretary can mandate his Principal Secretary to sign on his behalf. Such a signed document was accepted here by the Speaker in one of the sessions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to express my disappointment on this particular matter. The entire country agrees with me that this is a grave matter; a matter involving the life of a Kenyan. I do not think this Committee is giving this matter the seriousness that it deserves. In your ruling, you ordered that this Statement be issued last week. The Cabinet Secretary, Health, had said that they only needed one week to investigate the matter. It is now two weeks. We buried the young man on Saturday in a very emotional ceremony in Vihiga. Those of you who followed the news must have seen this. The family wants to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with the situation, but the Cabinet Secretary has not appended his signature to the Statement. That is the position that we are in.

Deputy Majority Leader, what is your comment? Sen. Kittony, do you have the unsigned Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can assist if we know where the unsigned Statement is. We can trace the Cabinet Secretary wherever he is. It seems to me that the Chairperson knows where the Statement is. The only problem is that it has not been signed.

( Spoke of record ). Therefore, the Statement has not reached our office, but they have told us it is ready. However, the signature has not been appended.

Order, Senator! This is a grave matter. As the Vice Chairperson of the Committee, your sympathy should be demonstrated in action, not just in words. I, therefore, order the Deputy Majority Leader to produce that Statement tomorrow afternoon. Sen. Keter, you will look for the Cabinet Secretary wherever he is.

I will do so, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will try to get it, even if it is an unsigned Statement. Since the Statement has been done, the only problem is the signature. We can get that Statement as it is and then present it to the House.

Order, Sen. Keter! Unsigned Statements are not acceptable. The only purpose of referring to you is that you use your power and office, unless you are demonstrating to us you are less powerful than the Vice Chairperson of the Legal and Human Rights Committee who demonstrated the other day that he had the proper connections.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will endevour to get the Statement as directed.

Order, Members! We were dealing with the Statements we had deferred yesterday in terms of urgency. We can now go back to the beginning. We are now at Statement 1(a). DETENTION OF MR. DON BOSCO OOGA GICHANA IN ARUSHA, TANZANIA

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Kennedy Mong’are Okong’o requested for a Statement regarding the case of Mr. Don Bosco Ooga Gichana in Arusha, Tanzania. I will go straight to the answer instead of reading the questions which had been raised. The answer is as follows:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with what Se. Haji has said. However, I discount the issue of Tanzanian laws because they are violating fundamental rights of citizens. Tanzania is a signatory to the UN Charter on Fundamental Human Rights. The consolation though is that this matter has attracted the attention of the outgoing President of the Republic of Tanzania. Mr. Gichana’s family and some of us who have been following this will follow it even more aggressively to its logical conclusion. I appreciate and thank the Committee, though they took a lot of time. I can see the light at the end of tunnel.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. Monga’re Okong’o because this case is very serious. He is being accused of money laundering to the tune of Kshs6 billion. Officials at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs have already told us that there are many other Kenyans with lesser crimes that are being held there. Since there was going to be a meeting between the two Ministries, hopefully, Sen. Mong’are’s question will be properly addressed at that time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the case of this young man, Don Bosco Gichana, is a very sad one. This is a Kenyan national. It is irrelevant that he has been arrested and suspected of committing a criminal offence. That does not take away his rights. He has been in custody in a friendly country for over two years. This is unacceptable. This matter may not be adequately dealt with in this manner that we are dealing. I urge you to allow the Chairperson of the Committee to which I belong, to summon the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senators! I am at a loss whether to castigate or appreciate the Senate Leader of Minority. To castigate in the sense that it is clarification time or appreciate him because he picked an issue that I was about to suggest. It is within the powers of the Committee to prosecute this matter further by summoning the relevant State agencies to shed more light on the same. Mr. Chairperson, you can do so, and the Senate Minority Leader being a Member of the Committee, will assist you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter had been raised with the Head of State of Tanzania. It will not help much by calling Kenya’s Attorney General (AG) on a matter that is in another country. The CS, Foreign Affairs has explained herself here, very well that, on 4th they will raise the issue. There will be a meeting in Tanzania to discuss the same. We should avoid duplicating the matter because the AG will not add any value. We cannot force Tanzania to do what they do not want to do.

Order, Senators! This is a very straight forward matter. Mr. Chairperson, nobody is asking you to duplicate. You can as well wait for the outcome of that meeting. In any case, you need to know.

Order, Senator! This is Statement time. You will provide the same in the Committee. I have directed the Committee to prosecute this matter beyond this Statement. DEATH OF MS. MAURINE TATA DURING DELIVERY AND THE DETERIORATING HEALTH STANDARDS IN KENYA

Do you have a response?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

That will be pushed to next week because Sen. Kanainza is not here.

SUSPENSION OF RADIOTHERAPY TREATMENT AT THE The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the response requested by Sen. Dullo Adan. She had requested us to include the specific information as follows. i. State and explain the circumstances leading to the suspension of radiotherapy treatment at Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) on 16th March, 2015. ii. State and explain the interim measures that the Ministry took to ensure that patients who were on radiotherapy treatment at the hospital before the suspension continue with treatment as scheduled to avoid loss of lives. iii. State how many lives, if any, have been lost as a result of the shutdown and give an indication on when radiotherapy treatment will resume at KNH. iv. Explain why KNH is the only public radiotherapy facility in the country and has only two radiotherapy machines, which are worn out and need to be replaced. v. Explain why radiotherapy is classified as an outpatient treatment and, therefore, not covered by National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF). vi. State the measures that the Ministry of Health plans to take to ensure more radiotherapy treatment centres are established countrywide to serve all Kenyans and prevent loss of lives due to unavailability and inaccessibility of the service. The suspension of the radiotherapy treatment service on16thMarch, 2015, was due to breakdown of equipment. One of the radio therapy equipment which is 22 years old had excessive table sag which is irreparable due to age, wear and tear. The second equipment had its electron component affected due to a power surge. Repairs were completed on 19thMarch, 2015, followed by the recalibration and testing on 20th, 21st and 22nd March, 2015. Normal services resumed on 23rd March, 2015. Following the breakdown of radiotherapy equipment at the Cancer Treatment Centre at the Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH), the following measures were instituted immediately:- (i) KNH management engaged the private sector with radiotherapy facilities (The Nairobi Hospital and Aga Khan Hospital) and requested them to accept the patients on treatment. Forty six patients were transferred to these institutions to continue with treatment free of charge. The rest of the patients numbering 105 continued treatment at KNH after the repairs of the equipment. (ii) KNH management extended the working hours of the cancer treatment centre in a bid to clear the backlog. There were no lives lost as a result of the shutdown. Following repairs and calibration of the equipment, normal service resumed on the 23rd March, 2015. Radiotherapy is a highly specialised service which requires highly specialised personnel and equipment. Training of radio-oncologists is costly, lengthy, and not locally available, hence resulting in shortage of manpower in this area. Currently, there are less than 10 radio-oncologists in the country. This manpower shortage has limited expansion of radiotherapy services in the country. Further, the Ministry has been functioning on inadequate resources which have to be spread across many competing needs. Against the Abuja Standard of 15 per cent of the national budget, the Ministry has never been allocated more than 8 per cent. For a long The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, let me thank Sen. Kittony for giving me the response. However, I wish to express my disappointment because I had requested this Statement on 16th March, 2015, when the issue was very serious. This is almost five months down the line when the Ministry is responding. Clearly, this shows how the Ministry is not serious with this matter and yet cancer is a killer disease in this country. We are being told that KNH has a machine that is 22 years old. We have not been told ---

Order, Senator! Seek clarification. Do not repeat what has been said. We heard what was said.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just building on that.

No, do not build on it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, okay. Could the Ministry tell us what plans they have in replacing this 22 year old equipment that breaks down year in, year out, and Kenyans end up losing their lives? Secondly, now that they have introduced renal dialysis for those patients, why can the NHIF not take care of cancer patients? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason it is has taken the Ministry so long to respond to this important Statement is because they are ashamed and embarrassed to bring such a response to this august House. Kenya has a population of 42 million. As we know, cancer is on the rise in this country. In fact, this month, Kenya is marking the cancer month alongside other countries of the world. It is disheartening to hear the Vice Chairperson talk about two machines to cater for a population of nearly 20 million, given that nearly 50 per cent of Kenyans have cancer conditions. Three weeks ago, I lost my aunt who was waiting for an appointment for 2017 given by KNH. It is that bad. Appointments are being given deliberately many years to come. Who can wait for an appointment in 2017? Going by the large number of people on the waiting list for radiotherapy out of cancer and going by the amount of money that is being stolen in Government, is it not prudent to take some of this money that is being stolen, especially from National Youth Service (NYS) and buy as many machines as possible to serve Kenyans?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the Vice Chairperson for the suggestion that we decentralize regions. In my understanding, our region is northern Kenya. I know the Vice Chairperson will be talking about the older provinces like Rift Valley. Cancer is becoming a killer disease in many regions. In Turkana County, for example, we have so many cases and people do not know they are suffering from cancer. Mandera and Wajir counties are a distance away from Nakuru County. I hope when the Chairperson responds, the definition of your region will be maybe at the county level.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious issue. I seek to get clarification as to whether the Government is serious in the policy statements of providing health services to its people. This is because we are spending a lot of money sending patients to India to treat them. Just last weekend, we had to do a fundraising. We raised money to spend on cancer treatment in foreign countries when we have young people who can be trained as oncologists. We can even procure equipment because it makes no sense to go into mega projects when projects that serve and save the lives of the people are neglected. Are we really guaranteeing people life as enshrined in the Constitution?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, chemotherapy machines normally destroy the normal body cells. That is why the appointments are not as frequent as maybe Kenyans would like them to be.

Before you proceed, Vice Chairman, Sen. Kisasa is out of order. It is not her business to respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I commend Sen. Adan for creating awareness because most of these Senators did not know what they have. Now, we are all aware that we have two machines in the KNH. Therefore, it is your mandate to know your fate and situation. To answer Sen. Munyes’ question, yes, it gives us an opening. We, as a Committee, need to consider putting the machine in Nakuru which is in the former Rift Valley Province. I also want to mention that the response to the question--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Vice Chairperson is misquoting Sen. Munyes. He said that instead of former provinces, the machines should go to the counties because of the distance.

That is correct to my understanding. She is not only misquoting, but also misrepresenting.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have noted that. However, to respond to issue of the question having delayed for the past five months, this was not within our hands. It took so long with the Ministry and we have just got it now. That is why I am giving you the response. Maybe, that gives us a chance, as a Committee, to go back and find out more on what should be done because that is a serious issue. Kenyans need treatment. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have answered according to what the Cabinet Secretary (CS) wrote. That is in the public domain. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What about Sen. Musila’s concerns? I want to remind the Vice Chairperson and all Members of the Committee on Health that in addition to your mandate, which must be obvious to all of us, there is also Article 47, and I have said this from this Chair repeatedly. It states that:- “Every person has the right to administrative action that is expeditious, efficient, lawful, reasonable and procedurally fair.” Sen. Kittony, there is a word that is known as “expeditious.” You consider it to be expeditious that the question is answered five months after the only two machines in a public hospital broke down? That is not acceptable. The work of Parliament is to cause action. Therefore, if you cannot do so, do you expect the ordinary people to make it happen?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have a lot of respect for my sister Senator. With due respect, she has not addressed the issues that I raised. She only addressed the issue of delay. However, more fundamentally, I raised the issue of the hospital giving people ridiculous appointments of up to 2017 from now. No patient will wait until then. I gave an example of my own aunt who recently lost her life awaiting that long ridiculous appointment.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we, as a House, also have a responsibility. The Ministry said that its budget is limited for such particular machines. That opens a discussion so that the situation can be salvaged because that is a problem that we are all facing. I have mentioned that the budget is limited and that has to be addressed.

Next Statement (f) is about the killing of Mr. Joshua Mungai, a First Year student at Maseno University. KILLING OF MR. JOSHUA MUNGAI, A FIRST YEAR STUDENT AT MASENO UNIVERSITY

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Thursday, 15th October, 2015, Sen. Ndiema requested for a Statement on the killing of Mr. Joshua Mungai, son of Mr. Kariuki of Kalwengwe Village in Trans Nzoia. The hon. Senator ought to be informed on several The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank my senior, Sen. Haji, who is the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, for responding. I only want to seek certain clarifications. The young man, a First Year medicine student from Khalwengwe Village in Trans Nzoia, was in the university for only 40 days. There are certain issues I would like to be clarified. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Statement, it was clearly stated that investigations are going on and if anybody will be found culpable, necessary steps will be taken. As to the allegations that the police aggravated the situation, that is incorrect. According to the statement, when students started rioting, police reinforcement had come all the way from Kisumu to Maseno. Therefore, there was no time to arrest the situation when it started. That is the best I could do in answering my brother.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the answer given by the Chairman, it is quite clear that the police used unreasonable force to disperse a group of students who were unarmed and simply demonstrating to express their displeasure at what was happening. When an inquest is opened, in ordinary circumstances, it means there is culpability, but it is not quite clear who the suspect to be prosecuted is. The police would always open an inquest with a suspect in mind. Could he tell us whether any of the police officers who fired teargas canisters that caused the stampede is named in the inquest file as a possible suspect? If not, who is the possible suspect because, at the end of the day, the family of this student will have to seek compensation from somebody somewhere? If it is a policeman, they will have to seek compensation from the state.

Order, Sen. Wetangula! Proceed, Sen. Haji.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I differ with my brother here because to say that the police used excessive force is not true because the statement stated that the students had put up a roadblock, harassing motorists and taking money by force from them. The police did not fire any live ammunition. They used teargas which is normally used in such a situation. As to who is culpable for this, investigations going on will adduce who is responsible and the law will take its course.

Let us move on to Statement (g); the Senate Majority Leader on El Nino . Statement (h) is deferred to next week same day and Statements (i) and (j) are deferred to tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, unfortunately I do not have the response. Could I undertake to issue it tomorrow?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Even as the hon. Senator says that he does not have a prepared statement regarding El Nino, can he at least confirm whether there is an El Nino or not?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In addition to what the distinguished Senator for Nyeri has requested, did you notice that the office of the Majority Leader was completely unaware that this Statement was coming today and yet you, the Speaker, ordered that due to the urgency and the emergency involved, this House needed to be informed about El Nino ? What we are seeing now is not El Nino, but money raining in people’s pockets in the usual Jubilee style of endless corruption. We are not seeing any El Nino anywhere, it is the El Nino of money; Kshs30 billion--- We need a statement to tell us how much money, where it is targeted and who is managing this money.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You do not need to rise on a point of order because you are the one responding.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this House has been a House of respect and we do not have to trivialize issues. I have utmost respect for the Senate Minority Leader when he says that it is “raining money”. This is not the “Tokyo affair”. Let us be serious; ElNino is El Nino . If you want us to say that the Jubilee Government is corrupt; let us find out who is more corrupt. Where is the Tokyo plot? We respect you so much, but when you start saying things here---

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Order, Leader of Minority!

Order, Senators!

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. Wetangula! Let the deputy Majority Leader finish then I will allow you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will undertake to give a response tomorrow in the afternoon, including what the Senator for Nyeri County has asked now as to whether there is El Nino or not.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rose on a point of order as a leader in this House. As the alternative Government, it is our duty to critique the Government of the day and point out what is not happening. None other than the President of this country has stood in this Parliament and dropped names of one-third of his Cabinet as corruption suspects. He sent them home. Of course, the most missing name in that list was his own ally who is building houses worth billions, who is buying land like a lunatic---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Senators! Let me make it abundantly clear. There is actually no matter before the Floor.

Order, Sen. Wetangula!

Order, Senators!

Order, Senators! Let us bring order to the House.

Order, Senate Minority Leader! This House will not be turned into a political contest between Jubilee and CORD. You have plenty of opportunities for that one outside this House. For now, we have a House of Senators responsible to the Republic of Kenya. I will enforce to the best of my abilities what is required of me. Whether you are an ordinary Member, the Senate Minority Leader or the Senate Deputy Majority Leader, you are subject to the rules of this House. Do not impute improper motives on another Senator and do not speak out of turn without seeking the permission of the Speaker. If you proceed along those lines, I will not hesitate to use my authority for as long as you have given it to me. I cherish the opportunities to do so. Therefore, be advised.

Order! Even those ones who repeat after me might suffer my consequences. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Khaniri?

Order, Sen. Khaniri, I have given you the Floor, who else are you consulting? DEATH OF MR. ALEX MADAGA FOLLOWING A ROAD ACCIDENT

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am being intimidated by the Senate Deputy Majority Leader. I am fully aware that you have given me the Floor. If it is in regard to Statement (e) on our appendix, I have not received it. However, I would be uncomfortable to listen to it for the first time on the Floor of the House. I would rather be given an opportunity to go through it before it is delivered.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, a few minutes ago, you gave me the mandate to talk to the Cabinet Secretary and the Principal Secretary, Ministry of Health. I managed to talk to the Cabinet Secretary who is in India with the President. He told me the statement had been signed by the Principal Secretary and sent to Parliament at 11.00 a.m. I have also received a copy right now. However, I have not gone through it. Will I be in order to request the Vice Chairperson of the Committee to give the response tomorrow? I have done my work by delivering and that shows seriousness. I would like to urge all the Committees to be serious. They should even call the Ministries so that they give responses. It is true that Sen. Khaniri does not have a copy of the answer. Therefore, I request for deferment to tomorrow.

Order, Senators!

Sen. Khaniri has got it now. Could the Chairperson respond tomorrow?

Sen. Keter, do you understand the meaning of the word “order?”

I directed that the statement will be issued by Senate Deputy Majority Leader tomorrow, but because he has been updating me of his progress, and in appreciation of his ability and capacity to get it signed irrespective of the geographical location of the Cabinet Secretary, I thought that he needed appreciation by the House.

That is not sufficient appreciation. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement – I was expecting the response from Sen. Adan, only to find out that I am supposed to request for the Statement officially. I beg you to give me permission to seek the statement.

Neither can you ambush the Chair just because you were ambushed with information. You know what to do; get the Statement to my desk; I will accord you the opportunity tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, last week, I was advised wrongly because I was to seek the Statement and---

You are absolutely right, Senator. You were advised wrongly; now you have been advised properly. The proper advice supersedes the wrong one. Proceed, Sen. Haji. THE CS, INTERIOR AND CO-ORDINATION OF NATIONAL GOVERNMENT TO APPEAR BEFORE THE SENATE ON TUESDAY, 3RD NOVEMBER, AT 11.00 A.M.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I wish to inform the Senate that the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government will appear before the whole House on Tuesday at 10.00 a.m. Therefore, all Senators are invited so that he can answer all the questions that are outstanding.

Is that what your Vice Chairperson told the House yesterday?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Chairman now who is informing the House. This communication has been in writing. I did not want to go by---

Sorry?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want us to go by verbal communication. Therefore, I requested to be given this in writing; I have been given this confirmation.

Are you telling us that all the time your Vice Chairperson has held brief for you, it has never been in writing?

No, Mr. Speakers, Sir, she has done very well.

That we should not take seriously whatever she tells this House? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir; she is very efficient, even better than me. I have no reason to doubt her. I am only informing the House. I was not even aware that she had provided this information because I was not here late afternoon.

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate, it is only that our Committees must learn to communicate first because your Vice Chairperson was taken to task yesterday and she committed to come to the House on Thursday to communicate. Therefore, you only needed to make reference that as stated by the Vice Chairperson yesterday, we have actually brought it forward. That is all the House would appreciate. That is the end of Statement Time.

Noted, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Senators, before we proceed, I have a communication to make. The first two are similar, just to recognise and acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of visiting members and staff from Vihiga County Assembly, Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The County Assembly Members and staff are here on a two-day benchmarking visit with the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition. They are: 1. Hon. Khalid Khamisi Balala Chair 2. Hon. Venna Kaisha Vice Chair 3. Hon. Andrew Ahuga Member 4. Hon. Rhoda Omufumu Member 5. Hon. Reuben Ombima Member 6. Hon. Elizabeth Muhonja Member 7. Shera Didi Legal Counsel 8. George Kibisu Serjeant-at-Arms 9. James Ngeresa Committee Clerk On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome them to the Senate and I wish them a fruitful deliberation during their stay at the Senate. VISITING DELEGATION KILIFI COUNTY ASSEMBLY Hon Members, similarly, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of visiting members and staff from the Kilifi County Assembly Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. The County Assembly Members and staff are here on a two-day benchmarking visit with the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to join you in welcoming the distinguished delegations from Vihiga and Kilifi County assemblies. I am proud to be the representative of the distinguished County of Vihiga in this House. I want to thank you, on behalf of Vihiga Assembly, for coming up with the programme to provide capacity building to our county assemblies. I assure you that Vihiga County Assembly has taken full advantage of the programme you introduced. This is the third delegation that is visiting us on this particular mission. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we first received the House Business Committee about a month ago. Last week, we received the Committee on Delegated Legislation and now we have the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee. This shows the county assembly has embraced the programme and they believe in the Senate. I have always told them that they should look at the Senate as their strategic partner in matters of oversight of the counties. It is this same Committee that is visiting us today, that presented the Petition that I presented to the House last week on the matter of Registration of Persons and Identification Cards (ID). They are doing a wonderful job in Vihiga. I want to join you in wishing them a successful sojourn in this August House. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have just looked back and I have not seen the Chairman of Justice and Legal Affairs Committee, the Vice Chairman is also missing. So, allow me on behalf of the Committee to welcome the two county assemblies; Vihiga and Kilifi. Since Sen. Madzayo is not here and he is my colleague and learned friend, I also want to welcome them. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! You are comparing oranges and apples. You should talk about the stay and the sojourn.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for those who are on a sojourn, I wish them a fruitful sojourn. For those who are on a visit, I hope they can seek our Committee for a visit before they leave because I am not aware of a meeting with our Committee. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me join you and my two colleagues in welcoming the delegation from Vihiga and Kilifi counties. In the Senate, they will find their friends in terms of protection of devolution, and we wish them a fruitful stay, learn good things and go and implement in your respective counties. To my brother, Senator from Vihiga, he is a very good Senator, take care of him; he advocates your issues very well.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I want to join you to welcome the two counties that are visiting us this afternoon; Vihiga and Kilifi counties. I am so happy that we are able to get counties releasing their staff and Members of the County Assembly to come and learn how things are done in this House. I am sure that they are going to give good services to the people they are taking care of. I wish them a fruitful stay in this City of Nairobi.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Ningependa kuungana na wewe pamoja na wale wote ambao wamewakaribisha ndugu zetu. Mimi kama rafiki wa watu wa Kilifi na watu wa Mkoa wa Magharibi. Nimekuwa Mkuu wa Mkoa wao na nawaambia karibuni na ninawatakia heri na baraka za Mwenyezi Mungu. Wakati watakapokuwa pamoja na sisi, waitumie hii fursa kwa njia nzuri; kuzoea yale ambayo wamekuja kujifunza. Pia wakirudi, wasalimie wenzao ambao waliwawacha kule nyumbani. Asante sana.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a Member of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee. I would like to join my colleagues to welcome our colleagues and friends from the two counties of Kilifi and Vihiga. Just to emphasize and underline the importance of that symbiotic relationship between the Senate and the county assemblies, and also the importance of capacity building that the county assemblies rarely have and that they can learn from the Senate. I would like to assure them and those that have not come for benchmarking in capacity building, that the Senate is ready, willing and able at all times to help where it can because we want to see devolution working for all of us. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important at this point as a Member of that Committee to request the two delegations to familiarize themselves very seriously with Article 185 of the Constitution which clearly states out the role of county assemblies, particularly on oversight. If that oversight role is not exercised at all times by the county assemblies, you will find that a lot of things could go wrong at the counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my fellow Senators in welcoming the MCAs from Kilifi and Vihiga counties. I also thank you for coming up with new programmes that will empower them in a way that will impact positively on the communities and the county assemblies. We are here for them and I am impressed that they are gender sensitive. Karibuni .

Bw. Spika, nami nakuunga mkono nivae hii njuga nikaribishe viongozi wangu wa Kaunti ya Kilifi na wale wa Kaunti ya Vihiga.

Samahani Seneta. Ati uvae nini?

Bw. Spika, nivae njuga.

Tafadhali endelea.

Bw. Spika, pia mimi navaa njuga kukaribisha viongozi wa Kaunti za Kilifi na Vihiga. Ukiona mbari jua zinduna iko nyuma. Hili sio kundi la mwisho kuja kututembelea hapa. Ninawasihi watu wa Kilifi wajisikie nyumbani na wajimwage katika jiji hili. Mimi ni mmoja wenu na pia Seneta maalum. Watu wa Vihiga pia nawakaribisha. Tunaye Sen. Khaniri hapa. Yeye ni kiongozi wa maendeleo kabisa. Kwa hivyo, mjihisi nyumbani na wengine waje pia kwani mikono yetu i wazi kuwalaki. Karibuni.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Nimerudi leo hapa Seneti baada ya kupotea kwa muda mrefu. Nilikuwa naomboleza marehemu baba yangu. Nachukuwa fursa hii kama Seneta wa Kaunti ya Nairobi kuwakaribisha ndugu zetu kutoka Kaunti za Kilifi na Vihiga. Karibuni sana Nairobi. Mjihisi nyumbani. Mimi ni mwenyeji wa Kaunti ya Kilifi kwa sababu nina boma huko. Nitaongea na Sen. Khaniri anitafutie boma nyingine katika Kaunti ya Vihiga ile tuzidishe upendo kama viongizi wa Jamuhuri ya Kenya. Karibuni sana na mjihisi nyumbani.

Sen. Moi Gideon Kipselei Towet.

Kijana wa Mzee.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to welcome the MCAs from Kilifi and Vihiga counties. I wish them a fruitful stay in Nairobi. They should know that we are partners in devolution. It is us who will make or break devolution in this county. I wish them well and a good stay here in Nairobi. Greetings to all back home. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the distinguished delegates from Kilifi and Vihiga counties to this august House. They are in the right place. They have come to meet their father and that is the right thing to do. I, therefore, wish them well and a safe journey back home.

Hon. Senators, I also have another communication to make. On 1st October, 201, I issued a communication detailing the procedure to be followed on the disposal of the Presidential Memorandum on the Public Audit Bill, 2014, and the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Bill, 2014. In the Communication, I noted that the Joint Committee had failed to agree on the President's reservations and consequently ruled that the two Memoranda be scheduled for consideration on the week starting 6th October, 2015. After my Communication, several Senators, including Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan, Sen. Moses Wetang’ula, Sen. James Orengo and Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, canvassed the matter and urged the Speaker to stay the consideration of the Memoranda to allow consideration of the following issues – 1. Whether the President, who is not a Member of Parliament (unlike in the repealed Constitution) can participate in law making, by exercising veto power? 2. Whether the reservations in the Presidential Memoranda can include introduction of new sections that were not contemplated in the Bill as passed in the first instance? 3. Whether the new clauses introduced in the Memorandum need to go through the usual legislative processes of First, Second and Third Readings. I undertook then to give further guidance on the matter before the Senate could consider the Presidential Memoranda. Hon. Senators, I have considered the issues raised and I wish to give the following guidance- i) On whether the President can participate in law making, I wish to state that Article 115 of the Constitution gives the President a legislative mandate of Assent and Referral of Bills. Thus the veto power is rightfully exercised by the President. This has always been the case even in the repealed Constitution. This answers to the matter raised making reference to the former Constitution in force immediately before the coming into force of the current Constitution. Section 46(4) of the repealed Constitution stated as follows- “Where the President refuses to assent to a Bill he shall, within fourteen days of the refusal, submit a memorandum to the Speaker indicating the specific provisions of the Bill which in his opinion should The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the directions that you have given. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I seek your guidance. In view of the communication that you have given and on the threshold that is required to either agree or refuse the reservation, I kindly request that you revise your direction for us to do this tomorrow until we can obtain the two-thirds because we do not even have the normal threshold. Although you said that the reservations on the Bills that go through to the President is part of legislation, the fact is that if we do not get the two-thirds, the reservations of the President will remain unchallenged and will become law seven days after tomorrow. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a milestone in constitution making in this Republic and I will kindly request, with all humility, that you reconsider so that you get appropriate quorum. Otherwise, tomorrow will be the day when that memorandum will be passed for lack of quorum.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I have a lot of sympathy for you and your thinking. Unfortunately, you are anticipating debate and lack of quorum. I cannot help you on that one. Let us wait until tomorrow so that you can make that case when the matter comes. As for now, I was just giving you the provisions as they are and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

.: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I derive a lot of fun in legislation making. Although you have asked me to move this objection or seek directions tomorrow, since the Deputy Majority Leader who is responsible for the majority side is here, maybe, you should also issue a further direction to the Whips who are watching you, some of whom are in a meeting on the impeachment of the Governor for Murang’a, so that we do not get into the history books for having not passed a memorandum of His Excellency the President because we did not have quorum. Thank you for your indulgence and understanding.

That is a fair request. I reiterate the direction I gave yesterday and appeal to the political leadership---

Order Senators! I am responding to your issues. I am reiterating the directive I gave yesterday to the political leadership; the whips and to the general membership; that your business, first and foremost, is legislation and to be in this House. Even for that Committee that we formed today, they could have had lunch together and conducted elections. That was the understanding I had. So, for them to have postponed from lunch time to the afternoon is not acceptable. Deputy Majority Leader, this is another opportunity for you to exercise leadership and mobilize your troops. Surmount whatever energy and stamina you have to make sure that we have all the numbers tomorrow. As far as I am concerned, that is only an appeal. I am not going to stop the business of this House on the basis of numbers. The numbers will impact the business, either way, and it is up to Members to know what that kind of impact means to them. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has raised one fundamental impact that Members can have. That is all we can do. The next three orders involve division. Please ring the division bell for three minutes.

Order Members. The three minutes are over and I suspect they must be even five by now. We still do not have the requisite number for the Division.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we do not have the requisite numbers to vote on these Bills, I would like to request that we defer them until tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order Members. It is a request to defer Order Nos. 8, 9, 10 and 11 to tomorrow. I agree to that particular request. It is ordered that they appear in tomorrow’s Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the House adjourned yesterday, we were debating Sen. Musila’s Bill on the amendment of the National Examinations Council Act. We did not conclude the debate. I was supposed to be the last to speak. When they switched on the red light, I mistakenly thought that my time was up but the Chair advised me that I still had 20 minutes remaining and told me I will continue today. Sen. Musila is present, currently attending a committee meeting and he has not been called to reply either. There were Members who were willing to contribute to it. I am surprised to find that it is not in the Order Paper and when I consulted the Clerk-at- the-Table, I was told it had been concluded. It had not. I am here this afternoon to continue with my contribution.

Sen. Hargura has told me that Sen. Musila had not anticipated being here today. I am told he requested that the debate on the Bill be scheduled to Tuesday. He did not tell The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

We still have tomorrow. Will Sen. Musila be present tomorrow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he will be here tomorrow. He was only away today.

Then I direct that we have it tomorrow so that we conclude the matter. It is quite topical. I am glad that the matter has been resolved. There was a request for the matter to come up on Tuesday but on the assumption that Sen. Musila will be there tomorrow, the matter should be scheduled for tomorrow. Next Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The County Governments Disaster Management Bill (Senate Bill No.40 of 2014) be read a Second Time. Thank you very much Mr. Speaker, Sir. The principle purpose of this Bill is to provide a uniform legislation framework for effective and comprehensive disaster management by the county governments. The Bill delegates the legislation making powers to the county governments for the purpose of the objectives set out in the enabling provisions. The Bill does not limit fundamental rights and freedoms. Under Paragraph 12 of Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, disaster management within the counties is the function of the county governments. The principle purpose of the Bill is to provide uniform legislation to regulate the exercise of this function of disaster management by the county governments. In this regard, the Bill establishes the County Disaster Management Advisory Board for each county. The county authority has power to lay down the county disaster management policy and it also has the authority to take all measures necessary or expedient for the purpose of disaster management in the county. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Bill concerns county governments in terms of Article 110(1) (a) of the Constitution and it contains provisions affecting the functions and powers of the county governments as set out in the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution. The Bill is not a Money Bill within the meaning of Article 114 of the Constitution. Clause 23 of the Bill specifically removes the Bill from the ambit of the matters listed under Article 114 of the Constitution. Clause 23 further provides that any expenses that may be occasioned by the implementation of the Act are to be provided by grants or donations as may be given or from such monies as the respective county assemblies may in the future provide for payment of such expenses. Further, the Bill provides that a fund may be established for the purpose of the custody of this Fund. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second. From the onset, I want to congratulate Sen. Haji; first, on the concept itself and the acknowledgement that our counties require to have the authority and autonomy to manage and deal with disasters which occur locally. For a long time, when disasters have occurred in the counties, the response and management has been left, most of the time, to the national Government. For instance, we have had floods in Budalangi, landslides in Kiambu, Elgeyo-Marakwet and Nandi counties, droughts wiping out herds of animals and leaving populations impoverished, outbreaks of diseases like Cholera, terrorist attacks like we saw in Garissa, Nairobi and Mombasa counties. The management and the onus of dealing with such matters of urgency are left to systems and operations which are based in Nairobi, in spite of the fact that these disasters occur in the counties. When Garissa University was attacked by terrorists, the entire machinery of Garissa County Government, including the Governor, were turned into spectators. Deaths of young innocent students occurred because help was not forthcoming, until forces arrived from Nairobi. The purpose of this Bill is to address those kinds of ills, maladies and shortcomings. In future, we can ensure that our county governments as spread across the country have got, not only the authority, but have been allowed and facilitated to set aside a kitty with a legislative framework that can allow them to tackle those disasters. As the saying goes, “if one fails to plan, then he or she plans to fail”. Our county governors should be aware that, as the Senate and as we are empowered by Article 96, this House has gone out of its way in all aspects to empower the populations that elected us. It is the onus of our governors and the administrations at the county level to ensure that these responsibilities that we are taking to them are exercised properly and responsibly. On the issue of use of funds, this Bill seeks to set up an authority which will be empowered to come up with policies and a formula as to how funds will be availed to the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Bill has been developed and we must salute the research arm of your office and the Senate, which evolved the idea and brought it to our Committee that is chaired by the distinguished Senator for Garissa. We have gone through this Bill many times. It makes provision to devolve disaster management. In the history of the country, we have had one disaster upon another. Whenever this happens, the whole country is at a loss as to where emergency responses should come from. For example, during the Westgate terror attack, we saw competition between the County Government of Nairobi and the national Government; the army competing with the police and everybody else wanting to be part of the action. They ended up doing very little. In fact, in the case of Westgate, we are told the process of busting the terrorists caused more harm than good. The army just went there and bombed the mall when, in fact, the Recce Squad, an arm of the General Service Unit (GSU) was closing in on them. In the process, we lost many lives. That kind of bravado comes in the absence of an enabling law for such management. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are also oblivious of the fact that there are many disaster prone areas in this country where you can predict with precision and not these fraudulent predictions about the El Nino that never comes and money is being expended left, right and centre. We were told that El Nino will start on 7th October, 2015. We are now at the end of October and every day, there are all manner of warnings over the radio that when the rains come, do not walk on water, do not do this and that. We have disaster prone areas like Budalang’i in Busia County and Nyando in Kano Plains, where there is a cycle of flooding every year. The disaster of drought in Kenya is an annual cycle. There are times when some parts of this country go for one to two years without a drop of rain. They need attention and we cannot count on the centralized system of Nairobi being the response centre for disasters. The previous governments of Mzee Moi and Mzee Kibaki had actually put in place the Directorate of Arid and Semi-Arid Lands in the former Ministry of State for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the chance to contribute in support of this Bill. There are times when we blame nature when we are the ones to blame. Sometimes we blame the Government when it is us who should be blamed. For this matter, I am trying to refer to this Bill which is coming at a time when we are told that there is going to be El Nino and most of the county governments The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill and thank my friend Sen. Haji, with whom I get into problems every now and again, for bringing such a wonderful Bill. I have always said in this House that we are here to ensure that proper laws are made in line with the Constitution. The Fourth Schedule of the Constitution assigns a lot of functions and responsibilities to both the national Government and the county governments. I must congratulate Sen. Haji and his team recognizing that under Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule, the issue of disaster management is assigned to the counties. Whereas the Constitution lays down the general principles regarding these responsibilities to the county and national Government, it is the National Assembly, with regard to the national Government and the Senate with regard to the counties, that must translate the general principles and provisions in the Constitution into concrete laws and regulations that may make it possible for county governments to work properly. Therefore, I would like to congratulate the team for having picked this responsibility. I believe that there are many other Bills that should ensue from the Senate in line with implementing the principles and statements in the Constitution. Secondly, I am glad that the Bill says clearly that this is not a Money Bill in line with Article 114 of the Constitution and proceeds further to specify how the County Disaster Management Authority shall be financed by the county. It is important that all counties should budget properly for the financing of disaster management and that it is not left to some ad hoc and haphazard ways of dealing with disaster. At the moment, most disasters are dealt with in county governments under special programmes which quiet often, are meant to be ad hoc expenditures by the county governments quite often not budgeted for before time. Therefore, the resources raised are either misused without The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Your time is up.

Asante Bw. Naibu Spika kwa nafasi hii. Ninampongeza Sen. Haji kwa huu Mswada wa Sheria. Mswada wenyewe umebobea kama mwenyewe. Hongera Sen. Haji. Ninatoa hisia zangu kuhusu mikasa ambayo inaweza kutupata. Wakati mwingine tunailaumu Serikali lakini kwa mfano pale kivukoni Likoni Ferry, kuna yale maboya ambayo yamewekwa kwenye ferry lakini hatujui kama yanafanya kazi. Ukiwa kwa ndege, unapata tangazo kwamba kuna boya chini ya kiti cha abiria lakini ni wangapi ambao wanaweza kulitumia kukitokea ajali? Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kuna wakati nilikuwa Budalangi na hakukuwa na mvua wala ishara yoyote ya kunyesha lakini vyombo vya habari vilisema kuna mvua nyingi na mafuriko Budalalngi. Sheria kama hii itakomesha uwongo mwingi. Naomba Sen. Haji azingatie mafunzo ya kuepuka majanga yanapotokea. La muhimu ni watu wajue vile wanaweza kujinasua kwenye janga. Pale kwa feri Likoni, ni wachache ambao The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to support this important Bill. In doing so, I commend my colleague Sen. Haji for this Bill. This Bill is long overdue. It should have been enacted many years ago. It is a shame that 50 years since Independence, we are enacting a Bill to manage disasters. I say this because you are aware we have had many disasters before. The management of these disasters has left much to be desired. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, we have not taken measures to prevent disasters as the Bill proposes. Disasters can happen any time. They have been with us but we do not learn lessons. A good example is fires. In this city, we have seen much investment. For example, skyscrapers have been put up by investors. However, we are not ready for a fire disaster. In 1956, I used to come to Nairobi City and passed through the most important buildings in the city. Believe you me, the fire station which is opposite the Nation Centre Building was one of the largest places I visited. To me, it was a huge place and I was told that it was for fire disasters. I know that people practiced from time to time and I used to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Sen. Musila. Sen. Haji, do you want to reply?

Please use the microphone.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am encouraged by my colleagues who have spoken. They have given valid suggestions which my Committee wishes to incorporate in future.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Pursuant to Standing Order No. 99(1), I beg to move that the debate on the Bill be now adjourned for more Members to contribute. We do not have quorum.

It is not about quorum, you either proceed under Standing Order No.99 or another one.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I will proceed under Standing Order No.99.

I will not allow you to fish.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

In that case, I have heard what Sen. Haji, the Mover of this Bill has said. I will proceed under Standing Order No. 99(1) and (2).

I do not think this needs to be seconded.

Next order!

Hon. Senators, I will reorganize the Order Paper. We will postpone Order Nos.13 and 14 to another day to be determined by the Rules and Business Committee (RBC). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, as you note from the Order Paper, there is no other business for the day. Hon. Senators, the Senate now stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 29th October, 2015 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.00 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.