Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Orders No. 177(3) and 179(1), I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate approves the following Senators nominated by the Rules and Business Committee to be Members of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments:- (1) Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o (2) Sen. George Khaniri (3) Sen. Henry ole Ndiema (4) Sen. Mshenga Mvita Kisasa
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am ready to respond to the statement listed as “h” on the Order Paper.
Sen. Madzayo, let us first get the requests. Proceed, Sen. Khaniri. DISTRIBUTION OF FERTILIZER TO FARMERS IN THE COUNTRY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we shall respond to the statement in two weeks.
It is so ordered. Sen. Elachi, are you requesting or responding to a statement?
I am requesting, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Proceed. BOAT SAFETY IN KENYAN LAKES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding boat safety in the Kenyan lakes. In the statement, the Chairperson should address the following:- (a) State the number of boat accidents that have occurred in the Kenyan lakes in the past two years and the number of casualties per lake. (b) Explain whether the Government has put in place safety regulations for life jacket usage, boat capacity and lighting of boats and whether the regulations are adhered to; and, (c) Explain the measures the Government has put in place, if any, to curb boat accidents.
Could we get a response from the Chairperson?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request for two weeks. At least we should have the statement by 22nd March, 2016.
It is so ordered. Now let us have the responses starting with Sen. Madzayo, the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. DOPING MENACE IN KENYA
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an answer pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No. 45(2) of the Senate Standing Orders. Sen. Okong’o sought a statement on the doping menace amongst Kenyan athletes on Wednesday, 17th February, 2016. In particular, the distinguished Senator sought to be informed the following:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I have heard from the chairperson is one hollow answer. As an expert in this area, having coached athletes for over 15 years, what I have heard the Chairperson say is about plans. The International Association of Athletics Federations ( IAAF) gave regulations over three years ago. In this response, I have heard nothing about these plans. From the last one on security agencies, they do not exist. In collaboration with the PPBMDB to arrest culprits, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) has not indicated how many people have been arrested and where the process of prosecution has reached. We have also heard about budgets which were supposed to be given---
Order! We were also in the House when the statement was being read. Therefore, you do not have to repeat it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this statement is unsatisfactory. I request that we summon the Cabinet Secretary to come and explain to us some of these things. Kenya is three weeks away from getting banned from fielding athletes in various international The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that our athletes have brought fame and glory to this country is not arguable. However, of late, a nightmare is ensuing amongst our athletics. Our athletes are now being cited as being victims of doping. In our history, whether we are talking of Kipkeino, Ben Jipcho or Samson Kimobwa, all these great athletes were like Caesar’s wife; beyond any suspicion. Today, we have Ritah Jeptoo, a very admirable young athlete banned for five years. We have others being mentioned. Last week, the CEO of Kenya Association of Athletics (KAA) was found culpable of complicity in doping and taking bribes to cover up doping incidents. The result was being sent away from office. No arrest. No prosecution. Is the Government serious in fighting the doping menace? If we do not do this, we are destroying the image of the country, curtailing the growth of young talents and undermining the glory that the athletes have brought to this country. When you think of young people like Ezekiel Kemboi, Rudisha, Vivian Cheruiyot and others, could the chairperson tell us, first, what the Government is doing to punish the agents who are likely to be the culprits in introducing our athletes to doping so that they can continue fielding them and milking them to make money. Secondly, what is the Ministry doing in dealing with KAA which is a beehive of corruption? You heard of the billions they have received from Nike Air and other sponsors for athletes that have gone into the accounts of individuals. If they can do so, they can also hide the doping menace. We want a very clear roadmap on how to clean up this otherwise very admirable athletics that have brought glory and fame to our country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir. On 24th February, 2016, Sen. Abdurrahman Ali Hassan requested for a---
Order, Senator! We are still on this matter. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, doping is now an international problem. In fact, none other than Maria Sharapova, one of the most renowned athletes in tennis has been caught cheating. The people behind this illicit trade are multi billionaires. It is not different from drug peddlers who also are after our youth. Could the chairperson inform the House two things: (1) How have they equipped the Customs and Immigration Department by way of equipment and training so that those products that come in disguised as normal products which are then used by athletes are controlled by being denied entry into our market. (2) I have not heard the chairperson mention anything about legislation. Beyond the plans that the Government has, there is need for us to have legislation that meets the international standards for us to fight doping. For the information of the House, the Government is sleeping on this issue of legislation so much so that they have left it only to the Hon. Member for Cherangany, Hon. Wesley Korir. He is being frustrated to see a piece of legislation that he wants to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairman for that response. However, just as Sen. Okong’o mentioned, there are a lot of intentions in this, yet time is running out. All sports activities where the State has had a hand are in disarray. There have been scandals with regard to soccer and volleyball. Now the same is coming to athletics. All State sponsored sports initiatives and promises made by the Government have not come to fruition. We all recall that the current Government promised five stadia. By now we should have seen, at least, two or three stadia, but this has remained a mirage. The reason I am bringing this up is that the assurances we are getting today from the Chairman of the Committee might as well be a mirage, just like the five stadia that this country was promised. Russia has been suspended from international competitions because of what is called “state sponsored doping”. What is happening in Kenya does not seem to be very different from what has happened in Russia. Kenya is an athletics powerhouse. We won the world championships in Beijing in 2015, but we should not delude ourselves that because we are good at running we cannot be suspended from international competitions. The Olympics is coming up in August and there is a high likelihood that if we do not meet the deadline that has been set for 6th April, our athletes will not be allowed to go to Rio. Could the Chair of the Committee come back to this House with a more comprehensive undertaking and assure us that our athletes will not in any way be affected? There are many hardworking young men and women who deserve to go to Rio because they do not take performance enhancing drugs. We know that the issue of legislation is a matter in the National Assembly, but---
Order, Senator. This is Statements Time. Please, interrogate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, please, allow me to summarize. The Chair has talked about the anti-doping agency that is being established and issues to do with legislation. The global anti-doping agency has already said that the policy and legislation that Kenya is coming up with does not meet its standards. I would like the Chairman to assure this House that this particular matter that is being pushed in the National Assembly shall be amended so that it meets those requirements. If that does not happen we will not have a Kenyan athlete participating in the Rio athletics in August.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, almost every sport in Kenya has nearly come to a standstill. At one time we were the best in football and volleyball and now, athletics is being attacked. I was listening to the BBC today and the issue of doping and how some athletes in Russia have been affected was being discussed. One of the inventors of---
The Kericho warriors have arrived. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Let us have the two final contributions. Please, keep to one minute. Sen. Ongoro.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious issue that, apart from threatening to take the good legacy of this country as a sporting nation, it is now retrogressing on the gains that we have already made in the area of attracting sports tourists. Further to all issues that have been raised, what is the Government doing to set up parallel investigations to confirm these allegations and allay fears that this is not even about competition blackmail? We know that this nation has held for many years some of the records in athletics.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairman also tell us whether there are any plans by the Government to rehabilitate some of the athletes who could be captives of the drug menace in the country using either funds forfeited by those who have been cheating or elsewhere? We know that there are some medical complications that happened as a result of this medication and some of them are still very useful athletes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do appreciate the concerns of the distinguished Senators. Due to the detailed nature of the response required to quite a number of the questions, with your kind permission, I think it would be important for the Cabinet Secretary himself to appear and answer. I would request for two weeks to be in a position to do the logistics and ensure that the Cabinet Secretary appears before the House.
Why do you not try one week?
Much obliged. I will try my level best to ensure that the Cabinet Secretary responds within the next seven days.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Chairpersons of Committees are very important persons in the new constitutional dispensation, because the Cabinet Secretaries cannot come to the Chamber like they used to do under the old Constitution. However, I am getting a little bit concerned because I have noticed an interesting trend. Every time a Chair gives a statement- almost all Chairpersons - they tell us that they will ask the Cabinet Secretary to come and give a more substantive answer. This calls to test the purpose of the new system. It shows that the Chairpersons cannot be expected to do the job that they are supposed to do under the new Constitution. Invariably we hear the Chairpersons saying that they will ask the Cabinet Secretary to come and give an answer, which then would save a lot of time instead of attempting to give unsatisfactory answers in the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, under the old Constitution, the Ministers and their assistants who used to give what Sen. Kembi-Gitura is calling a satisfactory answer were Members of Parliament like us. The only difference was that they were putting pressure on technocrats in the Ministry to give supplementary information. The Chair should direct that the Chairs of the Committee should not come with the answers as asked but with Statements with supplementary information which they can use to give those answers. As someone who sat in one of the most successful executive as an Assistant Minister during Kibaki’s presidency - successful in the sense that President Kibaki was the best performing President in this country – I can tell you for sure that the information you require is readily available in the Ministries. What we should do is to push the Chairs to bring along supplementary information. In fact, we do not like seeing some of the Cabinet Secretaries because they remind us of the corruption that they do in their Ministries.
Order Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Corruption is not written on people’s faces. We are belabouring on issues that are not there. We have had one Statement and the matter has been raised on what transpired yesterday. I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has given the way forward because I feel the same. Those Ministers used to be Members of Parliament. Our Chairs need to take their responsibilities more aggressively because they seem just to be conveyers of a paper instead of interrogating the issues with the relevant Cabinet Secretaries. I hope they have heard us. We have already spent 45 minutes on one Statement. Next Statement! ISSUANCE OF NATIONAL IDS TO RESIDENTS OF NAIROBI WHO HAIL FROM OTHER REGIONS OF THE COUNTRY
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. On 24th February, 2016 Senator Abdirahman requested for a Statement regarding the issuance of identity cards. The Senator particularly sought to be informed on the issuance of the identity cards for Nairobi residents who hail from other regions of the country and whether the Government is aware of the profiling of Somali ethnic community members at the National Registration Bureau headquarters who are being branded aliens. The Senator also sought to be informed of the measures being taken to ensure that all new persons registered in north eastern region receive their identity cards within the shortest time possible to enable them register as voters in the ongoing exercise. I wish to respond as follows:- The policy that guides issuance of identity cards for Nairobi residents who hail from other regions is that every Kenyan is registrable in a place of birth or permanent residence. The government is not aware of the alleged profiling of Somali ethnic The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Adan for the response but the manner in which the response is drafted is casual. I am saying so because I am not looking for an answer on when the road will be done. It is a matter that is sensitive and close to our hearts, including hers. The following are comments that will disapprove the response Sen. Adan---
Order, Sen. Abdirahman. It is Statement Time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be direct. When I was asking about the policy that guides registration of persons in Nairobi, I had in mind a particular case in Nairobi West of a citizen who was denied registration even after the area chief formally signed the registration documents. If the Chair allows, I will table the said documents. They were also countersigned by the elder representative from Nairobi West. In fact, he is the son of the sister of the immediate regional coordinator of Rift Valley region, one, Said Osman Warfa. Nairobi City is a home to many migrants. Everyone is not born in the city. It has a population of about five million people. Three million out of this population may have come from Bungoma, Wajir, and Isiolo among others. This policy is discriminative. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one ethnic community has been branded as aliens. I have a copy of a letter - I am ready to table it too - duly signed by the Principal Registrar, Legal, to the Assistant Director, Production, at the headquarters. It has a list of about 48 people from one ethnic community labeled as suspected aliens. This is something that happens every day. If registration is done at the county level, with the presence of a vetting committee, what is this other vetting committee at the national level that is denying Kenyans to get their registration? I table both for purposes of proof. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can the Chair inform the House why at every issuance of identity cards station, there is a Criminal Investigation Department officer. What is the role of the CID in the issuance of identity cards? Could the Chairman assure this House that in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya, 2010, every adult Kenyan is entitled to an identification (ID) card as of right and should not be taken through the rigmaroles of senseless vetting? Sometimes people are told to bring in chiefs, or they demand titles deeds and ask for ID cards of their grandfathers, grandmothers and everybody along the chain which ends up denying people the right to have ID cards
Lastly, Madam Temporary Speaker, could the Chairman assure this House that the policy of telling people to go back to their ancestral districts to get ID cards - something which is now unfolding in Nairobi - will stop forthwith? Anybody residing in Nairobi has a right to get an ID card in Nairobi.
Madam Temporary Speaker, like my colleagues, I have further clarifications to seek. Firstly, we are talking about ID cards; this is mandatory for every Kenyan who has attained the age of 18 years and above. In my county, there are over 100,000 people without ID cards. To make it worse, there was a problem of cattle rustling between Turkana and West Pokot counties for a long time. So, people did not even have a chance to acquire ID cards. There were also problems between the people of Turkana and Baringo, West Pokot and Elgeyo-Marakwet and Turkana and Samburu. So, we have a staggering number of people which has---. You saw it on television the other day. Very senior citizens are going through circumcision in the area for the first time because there is peace. So, if they forfeited that activity, where do you think they can get ID cards? Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to know how, when and the deliberate steps the Government will put in areas where we have had this problem for a long time. I asked the concerned officers and they said that they do not even have tyres for their vehicles. Could the Chairman confirm the steps they will take to ensure that officers who are on the ground are beefed up and given necessary facilities? Lastly, every year, we hear of every youth having a waiting card. Is there a way a waiting card can be used especially during registration of voters? It has become chaotic. We have very many people roaming around with waiting cards. I know it is not only my county that is affected but it is a problem affecting other counties as well. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am very disappointed by the casual way in which the Vice Chairperson has responded to the Statement by Sen. Abdirahman. I remember when Sen. Abdirahman raised this issue, it generated a lot of debate and very many Members rode on the statement; almost half of the House. I remember raising the issue and requesting that when the Chair comes to respond, she must give an explanation why the youth in some regions, particularly regions perceived to be anti-Jubilee wait for as long as even one year to get their ID cards after applying for them while it just takes three or four weeks for the youth in other regions to have them. I have evidence to this. I was waiting for her to respond to that so that we table some of the evidences that we have. She must be compelled to answer some of these questions because we think it is a deliberate move by the Jubilee Government to disenfranchise areas that are perceived to be the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) areas, so that the youth cannot be registered as voters.
Thank you, Senator. Sen. Nabwala, are you on a point of order?
Put the right intervention if it is a request. Sen. Musila.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I sympathise with the Vice Chair because as you are aware, there is a trend with our chairpersons that whenever we ask questions, they simply get away with it by telling us that they have invited the Cabinet Secretaries (CSs). That is what the hard working Vice Chairperson has said and it is what she said yesterday in respect to another question. Madam Temporary Speaker, we cannot deny that the Somali community in this country is discriminated against when it comes to issuance of ID cards. More importantly is what Sen. Khaniri has said. Discrimination is also affecting those who come from counties perceived to be CORD areas. Madam Temporary Speaker, during the last elections – I made this statement on the Floor – our people applied for ID cards and they were not given until after the elections. Therefore, they could not vote. As we speak now, our people applied for ID cards over three months ago. However, they cannot register as voters because they do not have ID cards. With your permission, I would like the Vice Chair to confirm or deny that the Registrar of Persons was supposed to retire late last year. However, because they want to retain him to continue doing what he has always been doing, his contract is being renewed when he has passed retirement age. Could the Vice Chair tell us why the Registrar of Persons who has passed retirement age cannot retire to allow others who have no briefing for discrimination of the Somalis and the CORD areas take the position?
Thank you, Senator. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, the question that has been raised regarding ID cards has not been properly answered. The issue being raised here is how you tell a Kenyan who lives or does business in Mwingi or Kitui County applying for an ID card there to go to his ancestral home because that does not make sense. Secondly, could the Vice Chairperson clarify why the Ministry carries out special vetting of ID card applications from north eastern and other border regions of the country when vetting has been carried out by security officers and other leaders in the counties? This is a matter that they need to look into. Could she clarify that the Government will stop vetting because that is what is deliberately delaying ID cards issuance in north eastern?
Madam Temporary Speaker, as the Vice Chairperson comes to answer the questions, I have a follow-up to the issue raised by the distinguished Senator for West Pokot which I would like her to confirm. We better be attentive to this. Section 5(3) of the Elections Act that deals with registration of voters reads as follows:- “Any citizen of Kenya who has attained the age of eighteen years as evidenced by either a national identity card or a Kenyan passport and whose name is not in the register of voters shall be registered as a voter upon application, in the prescribed manner, to the Commission.” The more important one is Section 3(a) which states as follows:- “(3A) Despite subsection (3), a citizen who has attained the age of `18 years and has registered for an identification card and is in possession of an acknowledgement of registration certificate shall, upon application, be registered as a voter using the acknowledgement of registration certificate, but may only vote using an identification card.” Could the Vice Chairperson confirm that the on-going registration of voters can and shall accept citizens holding waiting cards to be registered as voters? The law allows this to be done but we know that people are being turned away because they hold waiting cards.
Thank you, Senate Minority Leader. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!
Madam Temporary Speaker, there are two facts. The first one is that if you go to the library here, the Members of Parliament (MPs) who came from the then northern frontier districts (NFD) were complaining over 40 years ago, about this same question of Somalis being called aliens. The second fact is that Kenyans of Somali origin are Kenyans. Could the Jubilee Government tell us whether they are unable to live with Kenyans of Somali origin in this country to the extent of calling Kenyans “aliens”? If the reason is the Immigration Department, what is the Government doing to overhaul the entire incompetent department so that Somalis do not have to apologise for having a DNA of a Somali? It is a lot of rubbish.
Thank you, Senator. Sen. Nabwala, you may take the Floor. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Okay, Sen. Orengo, proceed although the Floor was for Sen. Nabwala. She will speak after you
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am so sorry.
Proceed. I will give her the Floor after you.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am riding a little bit on what Sen. Wetangula had earlier asked. The passport and identity (ID) cards are entitlements in the Constitution. For any Kenyan, the only thing that you can carry around with you to show that you are Kenyan is a passport or an ID card. You may be denied water or other services but to be denied an ID card which is provided for in Article 12 of the Constitution will be a great betrayal. Although you are in a little bit of a predicament; sometimes, it has been said that resources are the problem. However, I have just witnessed a problem where the Jubilee Government is spending about Kshs1,000 to buy one single vote in Malindi. An ID card does not cost more than Kshs100. Can those resources be put in the right place instead of having the sky team flying all over the place?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Sen. Ongoro): Could you use the right channel? I cannot see it reflecting here.
Okay. There is one intervention, Sen. Orengo.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for my mentor and senior, Sen. Orengo, to make statements on Malindi or any other by- elections where he has no evidence? Is it possible for him then, to substantiate what he has said by providing evidence in this House?
Sen. Orengo, proceed and provide further details.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate Deputy Majority leader is asking for trouble. I was in Malindi Police Station where one Hon. Gitau was locked in a cell with evidence of having tried to bribe voters with Kshs200,000. I asked him if he needed legal representation. I was in Malindi when one of the MPs from Kiambu County was also arrested while trying to bribe voters. So, there is plenty of evidence out there.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I know the senior counsel, Sen. Orengo, as a very intelligent man. I do not know why his examples are selective. He knows that, first of all, the evidence that he is talking about is untested and it is just an allegation. Being a senior counsel, he knows what that means. Two, is the question of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, the House cannot allow Sen. Murkomen to get away with this. Is he in order to suggest that there was no bribery when he is one of those MPs who flew in the six helicopters that were flying in Kericho County and being paid for by taxpayers? Is he in order to mislead the country or are you a supporter of corruption, young Sen. Murkomen?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
One minute. I will allow another intervention from Sen. Wetangula and then I will give you the Floor. There are so many interventions.
Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to inform the Senator for Siaya that we were in Malindi and on the polling day, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Mining was arrested by young people exercising the power of citizens arrest.
Order, Senators! I think we need to ---
In his car, they confiscated over a Kshs500,000 and shared it. Equally important is that the Director of Communications of ODM, one Mr. Phillip Etale, was not arrested and charged with bribing voters but for posting a social media message to the effect that Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) was planning to rig elections at Eden Rock Hotel.
I will allow only two interventions and then Sen. Orengo will have his chance. I hope the clerks are holding his time. We shall have Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and then Sen. Murkomen, in that order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think Sen. Murkomen should be the last person to talk.
He has been absent the whole week. They were escorting a former Senator who used to sit here and who is suddenly now not behaving as a civil servant. Sen. Murkomen The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, let me start with the old Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. He has attempted to confuse between our agility and abilities in campaigning. The substance of the question was voter bribery. I have no problem with what Sen. Orengo raised. If you remember, I said that he should be using the word “allegations”. For a senior counsel of the calibre of Sen. Orengo, he should know that there is a difference between tested and confirmed evidence which has led to conviction and a question of allegation. Those allegations in terms of bribery were all over. I have no problem with that. I was just saying as a lawyer of his repute, he should stick to the fact that allegations are still allegations. Two and most important is to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. We have absolutely no apology for having done fantastic and successful campaigns which led to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo getting lost in the last one week of the campaigns. It is because he realised the seriousness with which young people of this country wanted the election of Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot, who is here to be sworn as a Senator in this country.
Speak to your intervention.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I will not answer Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo for the simple reason that I will allow him to cool down, relax and get his footing because of the loss.
Madam Temporary Speaker, mine is to inform Sen. Murkomen that a clear Statement was issued from Mombasa by a great supporter of Jubilee Alliance Party (JAP) where he said that any election held in this country, they will make sure that they win either by buying votes - which is what was taking place - stealing as it took place in Kericho and beating people which took place in Mombasa and Kericho. So, it is obvious. We have absolutely nothing to prove here. It is clear that Jubilee is out to steal and do all kinds of things to make sure that they win elections.
I think we have had enough interventions. We must allow Sen. Orengo to proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, you know whether you call them bribery or allegations of bribery, the bottom line is that, these are serious matters and if they were not serious, Anne Waiguru would not be at home on mere allegations. So, what I am saying is factual, an emulation to Philip Etale, I can tell you authoritatively and I have been talking to the police even 10 minutes ago, they have entirely nothing on Mr. Etale. They told me that they were acting on the basis of directions from above and that is the way it is going to be. Madam Temporary Speaker, that is the character of the Jubilee Government. What I was saying is that a Government which can spent so much money including the 12 helicopters that I hear Sen. Murkomen was using on top of the military choppers that the Deputy President was using in Malindi, how can they continue to do that when they cannot deliver on any promise they have made even laptops? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Hon. Senators, those were very good---
I will allow Sen. Nabwala to speak. In respect of Standing Order Nos. 94 and 110, we will treat all those as allegations because they still do not constitute credible evidence and until we have anything laid on the table of the House, we will treat them as such. Sen. Nabwala!
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. I have evidence from my county where someone applied for an ID card in 2012, but until now, this card has not been issued. I would like to put the Chair of this Committee to test by producing the waiting card belonging to Tripea Wanyama Wafula which was applied for on 5th September, 2012. I have the serial number of the ID which is 232025164. I have others but I would like to see that one first. Thank you.
Thank you. Sen. Ndiema!
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. It is true that Kenyans are undergoing a lot of hardships to get this document which is their right. To become a citizen is a right and it is in the Constitution. An ID is just a confirmation and not what makes one a citizen. The problems that are experienced in Mandera and Wajir are also being experienced in Trans Nzoia. One reason is because of delays and the second is because there are certain communities in that county that are treated in a similar manner and yet they are Kenyans. Madam Temporary Speaker, the first reaction is to suspect that they are aliens. This is an area that we would wish the Chairman to investigate and find out. I would suggest that rather than calling the Cabinet Secretary, the committee should make a point of visiting and hearing members of the public. We also have the issue of errors where a man applies for a passport but the photograph which finally appears on the identity card belongs to a lady. We have such cases which need to be rectified.
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. My understating is that the formation of the Government starts from the Executive, the President himself and to the Assistant Chief. If a crime is committed in the office of the President, that is the Government. If crime is committed by an Assistant Chief, that is crime committed by the Government. The issuance of ID cards was done in Mandera by government appointed The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Because of time, we have to bring that issue to closure. Chair!
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. When we raise issues or statements on the Floor of the House, the main purpose is to get a solution to the problem. Last time when I stood on the Floor, I informed the House that the Registrar was going to appear before the committee and I requested all Members who had issues to bring them out so that we could iron them out with the Registrar face to face. If I am not wrong, it was Sen. Ndiema who attended that meeting. Again, after ironing out those issues with the Registrar, more issues kept on coming. Therefore, it is good for this House to utilize the avenues that we have, especially when we have these officers with us, so that some of the questions that the Chairpersons are unable to answer can be answered. The issues that were raised on the Floor regarding discrimination in registration and the documents that were tabled by Sen. Hassan came to the meeting. Clearly, the policy of the Government is that either someone is born within that area or a resident there. Unfortunately, there are so many other requirements that are employed by the registrars in various counties. This issue was discussed at length with the Registrar and it needs to be dealt with. That is why the Committee felt that we need to summon all the registrars to a meeting so that we can discuss these issues. I undertake to ensure that the Committee will investigate the documents that were tabled by Sen. Hassan and give a feedback to the House and to Sen. Hassan. We also discussed the role of Criminal Investigations Department (CID) and other security agencies. The Registrar said that it is not necessary for CID officers to sit in the vetting because this is not a criminal matter. Sen. Wetangula and Sen. Ndiema can attest to that. In Isiolo County, for example, where I come from, we have two vetting processes taking place; one by the vetting committee and the other one by security, which is not really necessary. These are bureaucracies that are delaying the processes of issuance of national Identity Cards (IDs). This is a matter that we need to discuss and iron out with the Directorate of Immigration and Registration of Persons. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Chairman, on a point of clarification. Are you attempting to respond, here and now, to all the clarifications that have been sought by the Senators?
Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am responding to some of the issues that have been raised since we have tried severally to summon the Registrar of Persons. Nevertheless, we will have a meeting with all the registrars of the 47counties in the country, to follow up these issues and come up with a solution to the problems that we are facing with regard to the issuance of ID cards.
Chairman, that is the way to go because the clarifications that have been sought are many and the interventions required by the hon. Senators are serious. In my opinion, in spite of your observation that they failed to attend that meeting you are referring to, as the Chairman, you are still obligated to provide the answers sought. Therefore, the way to go is to give us substantive answers on a date that you will request. I do not think you are in a position right to now to get all the answers to all the issues that have been raised on the Floor, from where you are seated, without having further meetings with the line Ministries. When will you bring these substantive answers to the Senate?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I need two weeks. With your permission, I appeal to Members that whenever we have meetings with these officers, they should also avail themselves, so that we can get a solution to these problems. That is the challenge most of the Chairpersons have in this House.
Hon. Senators, are you generally in agreement with the two weeks period, because of the nature of the answers she has to bring?
Madam Temporary Speaker, one last clarification--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
We have already brought that to a closure because the Chair has already pronounced herself on this.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I just want to emphasize one thing.
Okay. Let us have one last intervention on that.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The question of people using waiting cards to register as voters was raised earlier by my leader, Sen. Wetangula. He cited legislation which allows people to be registered on the basis of those waiting cards, only that during voting, they may not use them. Could the Chair ensure that, that provision is adhered to because it is a piece of law which is valid and should be acted upon? Could she make sure that, that is observed during this period of registration?
She will just take note of that, because she has already pronounced herself on it. We are constrained on time, but I will give five minutes to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to issue a Statement, as requested earlier. ONGOING VOTER REGISTRATION BY THE IEBC
.: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is in response to a Statement sought by Sen. Nabwala, on the ongoing countrywide mass voter registration and the issues concerned. Since the statement is not long and all the issues are important, I propose to read it. (1)The mandate of the commission on voter registration is governed by Article 88(4)(a) and (b) of the Constitution. It is further guided by several legislations, which include the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Review Commission (IEBRC) Act, 2011, the Elections Act, 2011 and the Elections and Registration of Voters Regulations 2011. (2) In adherence to the requirements of the Constitution and other enabling legislations, the commission undertakes its operation plan by focusing attention to priority activities and resource allocation for the said activities. (3) The Constitution, under Article 88 (4) (a), requires the Commission to undertake continuous registration of citizens as voters. After the 2013 General Election and in line with this provision, the Commission has been undertaking continuous voter registration at its 290 constituency offices across the county. The Continuous Voter Registration (CVR), as it is popularly known, will continue after the mass voter registration until May, 2017. The ongoing registration drive is within the continuous registration of voters. There was a question as to whether the voter registration is limited to one month. The voter registration will go on until 10th, May, 2017. The current mass registration drive has been designed for a timeframe of one month only, that is, 15th February, 2016 to 15th March, 2016. It is based on the financial resources that Parliament allocated to the commission for the exercise. In the Financial Year 2016/2017 in the voted for provision, the commission was allocated Kshs500 million which was far below the request of Kshs2 billion forwarded to Treasury. Under the Kshs2 billion budget, the Commission had planned to roll out voter The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Why are you upstanding? I have not given you the Floor. I wanted to say that due to time, we shall move on to the next Order. The remaining statements will be taken care of tomorrow. We now have a Supplementary Order Paper. I hope all Senators have a copy. The Floor is now for the Senate Minority Leader to take us through.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Orders No.178(3) and 179(1), the Senate approves the following Senators, nominated by the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) to be Members of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments:- 1. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o 2. Sen. George Khaniri 3. Sen. Henry ole Ndiema 4. Sen. Mshenga Mvita Kisasa These four names have been nominated to help complete the constitution of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) which is so critical for the operation of this Senate in our oversight role in looking at the books of accounts for counties and county assemblies. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support this Motion in an amended form. This is an important Motion because it formalizes the reconstitution of a very critical Committee. I take this opportunity on the Floor of the House to thank the Members of this Committee for doing a good job last year. It is one of the most active Committees of this House. The importance of this Committee cannot be over emphasized. As we enter the homestretch of the first phase of the devolved system of governance, it is increasingly becoming clear that our counties are doing a good job, but it will require a very strong oversight function of this House through this Committee. It is hoped that issues of corruption and abuse of public resources that we have heard and seen in the counties will be a thing of the past. I would like to propose a slight amendment.
Order, Senator! I draw your attention to the Standing Order No.179. You cannot introduce an amendment at this stage because it is not allowed. Your responsibility is to second. You have not even seconded this Motion.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I started by saying that I support. However, guided as such, I will not support this Motion. I oppose it because it is contrary to Standing Order No.178.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not quite understand the trajectory that my distinguished colleague has taken. He accepted to second this Motion. We both sit in the Rules and Business Committee (RBC). This is a RBC Motion. Therefore, he cannot stand to second a Motion and then oppose it in the middle. That is not seconding a Motion. Is the distinguished Senator for Tharaka- Nithi in order, in seconding the Motion, to swing the pendulum and oppose the very Motion that he is seconding? Secondly, this is not a Motion that can be amended. In any case, you can only amend a Motion if it was amendable after it has been moved and seconded.
Senator, you have made your point. I will allow two other interventions on this matter and then I pronounce myself. Please, proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to I invite the Chair to find that the Senate Majority Leader is grossly out of order. This is a Motion from the RBC. Therefore, if they agreed that the Senate Minority Leader will move it while the Senate Majority Leader will second it, all he needed to do is second and allow you to propose it. Thereafter, you could have invited anybody else on the other side to oppose or support it. We know that Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki knows these things. He is doing this deliberately. Therefore, I invite you under the Standing Orders to find that he is grossly out of order and punish him accordingly.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want some guidance from you because the Senate Minority Leader says this Motion is from the RBC. I wonder if the Committee can bring to the Floor of the House a Motion that is contrary to the Standing Order No.178(1). This Standing Order is very clear about the structure that should be followed in nominating Members of this Committee. As it stands now, these The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
I have heard you Senator. You have pronounced Standing Order No.178(1) quite clearly. However, this Motion has not been seconded and has not been lost yet. Therefore, those interventions and contributions can be considered only after we have owned this Motion. Therefore, at this stage, I ask the Senate Minority Leader to get another seconder and then I will allow interventions and observations after that.
Madam Temporary Speaker, before I get another seconder, what happens to the HANSARD where the Senate Majority Leader stood up and said that he begs to second the Motion? In seconding the Motion, one does not have to say anything. Once he has been invited to second a Motion and he says; “I beg to Second”, it is seconded.
That is my first limb and the HANSARD will bear me out; that you said, “I beg to second” However, if the Senate Majority Leader has become wiser after the event and has retreated from seconding the Motion, I invite the distinguished Senator for West Pokot, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, to second the Motion.
Before we proceed, now that you have made that clarification, I give the Floor to the Senate Majority Leader to pronounce himself on whether he made the statement that he was seconding the Motion.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, when I rose, I said that I support this Motion in an amended form. Thereafter, I was guided by the Chair---
Did you or not second the Motion?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I am using the exact words that I used. I said that I support this Motion in amended form.
I did not allow you to do so because you cannot introduce any amendments before we own the Motion.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me to conclude? When I spoke, I said that I support this Motion in an amended form. I wanted to build my case on the amendment and then second later as I close as we normally do, subject to that amendment. I was properly guided by the Chair that, that could not be done. I have no problem with that because it is the position of the Standing Orders. Therefore, what the Senate Minority Leader says is not true.
So, you have not seconded the Motion?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I have not, Madam Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
It has been clarified that the Senate Majority Leader did not second the Motion. Therefore, we will go to earlier ruling. We need a seconder and thereafter, we will allow contributions.
Madam Temporary Speaker, as we move to the next level of inviting another seconder, I am embarrassed at the turn of events. I would like to point out that this Motion should be looked at within the context of the Standing Order No.212 which guides the composition of the CPAIC.
I can see the “virus” from the Senate Majority Leader is spreading backwards. I, therefore, invite the distinguished Senator for Kakamega County, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, to second the Motion and then we can debate it thereafter.
I will allow the seconder to contribute then give the Floor to the Senate Majority Leader. Please, proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to second this Motion. This is a straight forward procedural matter which I see no problem with. I am impressed by the arrival of Sen. Ndiema, Sen. Ntutu and Sen. Kisasa on this Committee that I have been privileged to Chair for the last two Sessions. It is unfortunate that we have come this far about this Committee. This is a critical Committee of oversight. Owing to my track record in fighting corruption, not just among the devolved governments, but in Kenya in general, I make it absolutely clearly that I will be the first person to take the first step if it requires that step be taken to give way for a stronger committee and a stronger Senate. The media has sold the perception that the Senator for Kakamega was dying to be the Chairman of this Committee. That is not true. I am privileged that I have been the Chairman in the last Parliament for five years and this Parliament for three years. That is a total of eight years. In the history of the Republic of Kenya, there has been no Member of Parliament who has been the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee for that long. That is why at the end of the election which I recognised, I quickly congratulated Sen. Okong’o and assured him of my support. I, therefore, in support of this Motion, want to state that when we go for election tomorrow, I discourage Members of my Committee not to bring me where I found myself at the last election; that is, I walked into an election knowing that Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o was going to be proposed and seconded. That was supposed to be the case from our side of the coalition. However, I was proposed and seconded. Therefore, I wish to confirm that I want to continue fighting strongly within this Committee, but I do not wish to be in the position of the Chair. I will support whoever will win at that election as the Chairman. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to persuade the Senate Majority Leader and my brother Sen. Kagwe regarding their concerns about Standing Order No.178. You cannot read one Standing Order and leave out another one that speaks to the same issues. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Let us allow him to finish. I will give you the Floor.
You will have your say. It is called debate.
Okay. Proceed, with your intervention.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have respect for the distinguished Senator for Kakamega. However, notwithstanding and needless to say that in spite of length of period served in either House of Parliament, each one of us is bound not only by the rules of this House, but by these Standing Orders.
Secondly, since the first Senate---
Senator, you rose on a point of order, stick to that. I will give you the Floor to contribute later on. What was out of order?
Absolutely, Madam Temporary Speaker. After the dissolution of the first Senate in 1965, this is the first Senate after the new Constitution. In this House, there are no older or senior Members. This is the first Senate of the Republic of Kenya under the new constitution. Is the Senator for Kakamega in order to mislead the House and the country that he is more senior than the rest of us all, while we are all equal?
You have made your point.
Madam Temporary Speaker, is he in order to mislead the House in interpretation of Standing Order No.212? The Chairperson of the CPAIC is a Member of the Committee. It is not held in isolation. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Senator, you have already made your point and pointed out what was out of order in your opinion. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please, conclude.
Madam Temporary Speaker, with all due respect, sometimes I measure my words very carefully. I did not intend to impute any improper motive on my junior colleague, Sen. Wamatangi. It will help you to remember that a Member of Parliament defines two sets of leaders in this country; a Senator and a Member of the National Assembly. So, by seniority I was not referring to Senator; I was referring to Member of Parliament, which we all are. If you are still in doubt about that seniority, let us leave it to the gallery. The observers will judge whether in the meaning of the Constitution of Kenya, your seniority is equal to mine. Madam Temporary Speaker, I, therefore, urge my colleagues to support this Motion. Perusing these names I see Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, CORD; Sen. Khaniri, CORD; and Sen. Ndiema, CORD. These are three. They add to Sen. Hassan, four, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, five and, finally. Attorney General Emeritus, Sen. Wako, CORD, to make a total of six. So, there should be no beef. Let us go over this thing. This Committee will require that we work as a team so that we vote in the same manner that we have been voting when I was the Chairman. Finally, as I support, I thank my colleagues for the way we worked. We did a good job. I look forward to us adopting and moving all the reports that we have already prepared. Madam Temporary Speaker, with those remarks, I beg to second.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I seek guidance from the Chair on whether it is in order to proceed to debate this Motion when we have raised very weighty issues on the legality of the Motion itself. In particular, Standing Order No.178 is extremely clear. It is unambiguous. Simply put, it says that when constituting committees, one must make references to the relative majorities in this House. I do not know whether it is in order to proceed debating this Motion when the Chair has not made a ruling on whether this Motion is legally before this House or not. Our position, as the Jubilee Coalition, is that this Motion is contrary in all force to the Standing Orders of this House.
Madam Temporary Speaker, we are now witnessing degeneration into unhelpful polemics on a matter that is so clear. Once a Motion has been moved, seconded and proposed, no Member of the House has the capacity to question its legal competence because it is properly before the House. It has been moved, seconded and the question has been proposed. Therefore, there is a Motion before the House. I truly want to see that, in the spirit of the questionable loss in Kericho and the overwhelming victory in Malindi, we approach a bipartisan process of dealing with issues in this House so that we canmake progress. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to mislead the House and the nation by pronouncing to this House that the Committee on Public Accounts is not a select committee? Secondly, is he on record in this House, that he and the CORD Coalition used Standing Order No.180 to de-whip the former chairperson of the same committee? Is he in order to mislead the House that Standing Order No.178 does not apply to this committee? 180(1) reads; “(1) A Parliamentary Party that nominated a Senator to a Select Committee may give notice, in writing, to the Chairperson of the Rules and Business Committee that the Senator is to be discharged from a Select Committee.” Is he in order to mislead the House and quote other Standing Orders when he relied on the same Standing Orders and the definition of the County Public Accounts Committee (PAC) as a Select Committee to de-whip, Sen. Okong’o?
Senate Minority Leader, allow me to give three other interventions so that you will proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, will you then come to me?
Yes, I will come back to you.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I really do not know why we are being dragged into this matter. We have leadership in this House. That entire leadership sits in the RBC. Were these people able to sit and come up with this Motion? My assumption is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I was really hoping we would get guidance before we came to this point. However, I want to raise an issue in terms of Select Committee. The way the Standing Orders are crafted, they are divided into parts. All the committees fall under part XXIII on Select Committees. It begins from Standing Order No.176 all the way to Standing Order No.218. This is where all issues regarding committees are discussed. Personally, I have no problem with the minority side being the chair of the committee because it is clearly stipulated in the Standing Orders. That is the way it should be. The problem I have with this nomination is the number. That is the equal numbers on both sides. Standing Order No.178 talks about which numbers should represent each coalition or parliamentary party. That notwithstanding, Standing Order No.181 on composition of select committees says as follows: “Subject to any written law, these Standing Orders or a resolution of the Senate, a Select Committee shallconsist of an odd number of Senators, being not less than seven and not more than nine.” Madam Temporary Speaker, that is the reason the Standing Order envisaged a situation where even numbers will be a problem. Therefore, we need to be serious in deliberating this issue due to its importance to this Committee. We have been in limbo yet a lot of work is pending. Our hope is that we resolve it. If we resolve to have an even number in the Committee, the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) Members must accept a seven and five as the only option. We must have the majority as it is provided in the Standing Order No.178.
Madam Temporary Speaker, the Standing Order No. 208 provides for two types of Committees; Standing Committees, Select Committees and not forgetting there are also the Sessional Committees. Standing Order No.210(1) provides that:- “The Select Committees to which this Standing Order refers shall be designated Sessional Committees and shall be nominated by the Rules and Business Committee in consultation with parliamentary parties at the commencement of every Session.” These parliamentary parties are the same ones which have been given power in Standing Order No.178 to nominate Senators to serve in a Select Committee. You can see that there is no distinction and that the Sessional Committees are also Select Committees.
Madam Temporary Speaker, on the definition of the Select Committees, I refer Members to Standing Order No. 181. Whether the Committee under Standing Order No.212 is a Select Committee, the answer is in Standing Order No.181. It is not possible that the drafters of the Standing Order No.212 were not aware of Standing Order No.181. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, there is an important point which was raised by Sen. Obure. He asked the source of the Motion. The RBC is a Committee of this House. It sits with the leadership of the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader. Their Whips and their deputies are Members among others. This matter was canvassed and agreed upon, including the numbers and the names at the RBC before it was brought here. Therefore, to be wise after the event is an assault on the integrity to this House. Madam Temporary Speaker, Standing Order No.212 is distinct and it does not subject itself to any other Standing Order. If it intended to make reference to Standing Order No.178 or any other, it would have started by the words “subject to Standing Order---” Within the context of the interpretation of the law - the Senate Majority Leader has been a teacher of law and he knows it - a section that comes later has the power of overriding a section preceding it if they are making reference to the same issue. However, that is not the point I am pursuing. Madam Temporary Speaker, protect me from the symptoms of heckling from Sen. Wamatangi so that I become comfortable in my submissions. Standing Order No.212 is clear.
I talked of symptoms of heckling because the Senator was gesturing and looking at me. Those are symptoms of heckling.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to refer to my presence in the House - to my dutiful and proper conduct and by the simple fact that I am keenly following what he is saying - that I am The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Senator! You are also negating the whole thing. The issue here is on the word symptoms and how to read the symptoms of heckling. You have also said you are reading symptoms of his intention to mislead. Let us proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, let me finalize by reading Standing Order No. 212 (2). It provides that:- “The County Public Accounts and Investments Committee shall consist of a Chairperson, whom shall be a Member of the second largest party or a coalition of parties in the Senate, and not more than eleven Senators.” Therefore, the opposition is given the Chair and the Committee has eleven Members to which the majority party is entitled to six and we are entitled to five. We then provide a Chairperson who shall make the membership to six each. That is the purpose of this Standing Order. It was not enacted for nothing.
It is my time. You will have your rebuttal time.
Order, Senators! Let us allow him time and I will give you your time to dispute.
Madam Temporary Speaker, that is what informed the RBC which is chaired by the Speaker. What is before the House, to cut a long story short as Jeffrey Archer would put it, is to refer this matter to the substantive Speaker who chairs the RBC, and who presided over the proceedings that brought this Motion to the House and who in law, we will submit, will be estopped from thinking differently from the position he has taken to make a reasoned ruling and give direction. Otherwise, we are just being disruptive and engaging in arguments that simply show that we want to flex muscles. Madam Temporary Speaker, we are also seeing signs that are very worrying because the CPAIC is a Senate oversight committee. It will look at accounts of counties regardless of who is the governor. It is a committee that will expose corruption among both the Jubilee Governors and the CORD governors where they find it. However, we are behaving as if we are constituting membership of the Committee to go and protect or defend positions which, is very unfortunate, to say the least. To me, even if all the Members of the Committee came from across the Floor and they are men and women of unquestionable integrity, I will have no problem as long as they discharge the duties and functions of oversight. However, I can see very clearly from the body language, expressions and spoken words that there are certain colleagues on a mission. If the mission is to convolute, misdirect and undermine the oversight role of this Senate, then we are doing the wrong things.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Hon. Senators, I will give all of you time to contribute instead of interjections, so that you have substantive contributions.
Madam Temporary Speaker, my distinguished colleague, the Senate Majority Leader, and I have been holding the same position on oversight issues throughout the years. I do not see why my brother should become hostage of dark forces that are determined to derail the process of oversight of counties.
Senate Minority Leader, I plead with you to---
Madam Temporary Speaker, that is my submission.
Hon. Senators, I can see a lot of interest and I want everybody to pronounce themselves on this. I will give the Floor to Sen. Murkomen, but before I do so, allow me to pronounce myself on a few issues that have been raised. The first issue that was raised was on the legality of this Motion and whether it is properly before this House. My pronouncement is that this Motion is properly before the House and it is now owned by the House. All the procedures, including the rules and the Standing Orders have not been contravened, but you are free to pronounce yourself on this matter and reject in totality or make any amendments. Secondly, an issue arose regarding whether it is a standing committee, a select committee or a sessional committee. The distinction between standing committees is pronounced in Standing Order No.208(1) and sessional committees in Standing Order No.210(1). However, all committees are select committees. So, that was misinformation. So, it is definitely also a select committee. Lastly before we proceed, remember that this Motion has been brought to the House from the RBC chaired by none other than the Speaker of the Senate. Its membership comprises the entire leadership of this Senate, including the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader, the Majority Chief Whip and the Minority Chief Whip. So, we shall debate on the Motion that is here, but this brings us to a very interesting scenario in the Senate where a Motion brought to the House by the RBC is in contention on its legality. I am wondering whether they did not interrogate these matters at that stage. Let us proceed. Rather than interventions, I would rather you pronounce yourself freely by just giving a full contribution. Senate Deputy Majority Leader, Sen. Murkomen.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move a Motion for Adjournment, pursuant to Standing Order No.99, that the debate be now adjourned. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to second. I was in the RBC meeting and the Senate Minority Leader knows very well what we agreed on. We agreed that he should sit down with the Senate Majority Leader and agree. That is what the Chair said. So, it will be very wrong for us to canvass here when we agreed very well that they must sit down as two leaders and lead the House. Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second that we adjourn the debate and go back on what the Chair had requested us to do.
That request is properly before the House according to Standing Order No.99(3). So, before I pronounce myself on that, I will allow two or three interventions and then we will proceed. I will propose the question.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to oppose the Motion for Adjournment not because it is against the Standing Orders, but because whereas the Standing Orders provide that Sen. Murkomen can move that kind of Motion at any time, the reasons advanced for the adjournment do not merit support. This Motion, as correctly reported to the House by Sen. Elachi and the Senate Minority Leader, was drafted and approved by the Speaker at a session Chaired by the Speaker – the same one who approved – the leadership of this House drawn from both sides of the House sat, debated and resolved that this Motion should be allocated time and put on the Order Paper. To stand down this Motion at this moment so as to do further consultations, you will be only pursuing two routes. Both routes cannot be allowed to prevail. The first route that you will be pursuing if you stand it down is that you now want to take the matter back to the Speaker for him to make a substantive ruling. What kind of ruling would you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me comment very briefly because I will not go into the substance of the Motion itself but as to whether the Motion in the House right now should go back to the RBC. The dignity of this House is so important that it is supreme over and above our parties. Let us agree to that first. This is because parties will come and go but the Senate will stay. I think that Sen. Murkomen has been generous in his proposal, that we take this Motion back to the Committee so that they can reconsider. There is nothing wrong with reconsidering a position. It is not a position of weakness but that of strength to say to yourself that; maybe, I did not consider a, b, c and d which is something that we should consider. This House is held very highly in this country. For us to proceed and have a debate which we can see very clearly is one sided on this particular issue and has also become partisan, the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) will vote one way and the Jubilee one way. This is not how we have been known to proceed in this country. We have been known to be people of substance and maturity in order to reach a bipartisan position, without alienating the same Committee that we will be relying on to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, considering the mood and the atmosphere in this House on this particular matter, it would be prudent to support the adjournment Motion moved by Sen. Murkomen. Let me talk about the intention or the reasoning behind the postponement of debate on this particular matter, which I do not agree with. This is because, if we are going to base it on Standing Order No.178 and if you are going back to the RBC to say that this Motion breached Standing Order No.178, that then would be an unfortunate position which I would not support. I would support that we postpone discussion on this just to build sufficient goodwill. If you look at Standing Order No.176 that talks about the RBC, the issue of proportionality that we are trying to talk about when it comes to Standing Order No.212 on the Public Accounts Committee, Standing Order No.176 talks about three people who shall be Members for this Committee. It then talks about “not more than nine other Senators”. If we are agreeing in Standing Order No.176 that the RBC shall have the Speaker, the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader and not more than nine other Senators, it gives you nine plus three, which is 12. So, the argument that there should be an odd number in this committee does not apply. If we are arguing that the nine in Standing Order No.212 should include the chair, then you would also argue that the nine in Standing Order No.176 should include the first three people. Madam Temporary Speaker, I therefore, want to urge that if this House is going to adopt the Murkomen Motion, let it not be on the argument that we have Standing Order No.178. Let it be on the basis that we are seeking to build consensus and bring goodwill to this important Committee. The County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) looks into the affairs of counties. When it comes to counties, there is no Government or opposition. This is unlike the National Assembly where you would say that the Jubilee Government is executing and the Public Accounts Committee and the Public Investments Committee (PIC) are examining the Jubilee Government. In the case of the Senate and counties, there is nothing about opposition or Government counties. All those counties, whether headed The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, as I conclude, let us put out our best 10 irrespective of party affiliation and I want to urge my colleagues that we avoid brinkmanship. If we are differing on this and taking it back to the Rules and Business Committee (RBC), let it be for seeking goodwill and avoiding a partisan approach. Let it not be on the basis of Standing Order No.178. Thank you.
I will allow one last contribution from Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I listened keenly to what my colleague, Sen. M. Kajwang, has said and it is correct. If you look back at the inaugural session that we had for this Committee, we had six Members from the majority side and five from the minority side totaling to 11. In the course of the sitting of that session, one member, Sen. Khaniri pledged allegiance to the minority. So, we continued like that and I liked it because when we were working, we were not partisan; we worked as a team. Madam Temporary Speaker, if it is during this Fourth Session the majority and the minority leaders have seen that they want to put their membership accordingly, not because this Committee is supposed to protect the Government or the minority side, it is supposed to work for the counties. As we speak, the County Government of West Pokot, particularly the County Assembly has enough problems to the extent that today they ferried a group called “Bunge la Wananchi” to look like they are mediating between them and the Speaker. So, the Speaker ferried people from outside to assist him against MCAs. Madam Temporary Speaker, this same Committee was chaired ably by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale without any problem at all; we gave him full support. That is why we do not want to hear that there is any kind of problem in this Committee because it does not look at which side you come from. We are addressing malpractices. My county assembly issues were supposed to come next week but the more we continue--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, there is a point of order.
On a point of order Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise on Standing Order No.98 (2) that the question be now put on this Adjournment Motion because we are repeating ourselves at the expense of valuable time of this House on a procedural matter.
Thank you Senator. However, I had already given him the Floor, and so, I will allow him to conclude and then I pronounce myself. Conclude, Senator.
I like that; you have finished giving your contribution?
Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Hon. Senators, before I pronounce myself on this, I will proceed to put the question but I have a clarification. There was a sentiment that if we adjourn, then this Motion is going to be taken back to the Speaker. I am of a different opinion. Adjourning this Motion does not take it back to the Speaker but to the RBC. I want to pronounce that this Adjournment Motion is properly before the House according to Standing Orders. I will now use my discretion according to Standing Order No.99 (3) and proceed to put the question. ( Question put and agreed to)
Next Order! Members, take your seats.
On a point of order Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you notice that as soon as you made your finding, the distinguished Senator for Mandera gestured at us? Whatever it means, this was an obscene gesture and it is not something that should be done in this House.
Senator for Mandera, you have been adversely mentioned and you have to come back and clarify.
Madam Temporary Speaker, he is a very honest man. He just needs to own it up and apologize because he did it.
It escaped my attention. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
I have tremendous respect for him but when such things happen, we must bring them to the Floor.
Did you make that kind of gesture?
Madam Temporary Speaker, normally, this sign is used for victory. When it is inverted, it means a loss. So, you, guys, have lost and you know it. There is nothing obscene about it. If you do not like that sign of a loss, I withdraw.
Senator for Mandera, there is no part that has lost, there was a consensus. You saw the Majority and the Minority Leaders talking. They had all agreed that we adjourn. So, just withdraw that. I think that is now water under the bridge. Let us proceed.
On a point of order Madam Temporary Speaker. Because of the record, maybe you need to be clearer. The Motion which we have all supported is that the debate be adjourned. But your communication is leaving the impression that by adjourning, we have referred the Motion to the RBC.
Madam Temporary Speaker, there was no Motion before this House asking the leave of the House that this Motion be referred to RBC. That is a totally different Motion.
My communication is in view of the debate that took place on the Floor of the House and it was a general consensus that the RBC needs to sit and build consensus before we proceed with debate on this Motion so that we do not appear to be a divided House on a Motion that has come from our own RBC where both leaders of the coalitions and the entire political leadership are Members. So, if I did not communicate it well, that is exactly what I meant. We are adjourning but we are allowing them time to sit down and agree on these thorny issues that are coming up on the Floor of the House.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
On which issue because we do not have any other Motion on the Floor of the House yet?
On the Adjournment Motion, Madam Temporary Speaker.
That has now been overtaken by events, Senator. I think we will have to proceed to the next Order. Hon. Senators, according to the Order Paper, we do not seem to have the numbers for all the other subsequent matters. We could then proceed with Order No.16; The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015).
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo was on the Floor and had a balance of five minutes, but he has just left the House. Sen. Wamatangi, are you requesting to pronounce yourself on this? Is there any Senator who wants to contribute to this Bill?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to lend my support to The County Libraries Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2015). I also congratulate the Senator who initiated and moved this Bill, Sen. Gwendo, for accurately identifying a gap in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Bill. According to the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, library services are a devolved function. As we discuss this Bill, we need to ensure library services are devolved to serve our people at county levels. However, it is a pity that land where libraries were to be built in counties has been grabbed. Although the Transition Authority (TA) would up its activities, we must make sure we repossess land that was grabbed and build libraries in our counties. We must take the inventory of all existing assets of library facilities. I hope the county governments will take over those facilities and refurbish them. We must sensitize our young people to understand the importance of library services in the counties. These facilities can benefit them abundantly. Most of the time, you find that one would wish to go to the library to do studies. Some libraries are well equipped. Therefore, our young people should go there and read books. I hope that as we devolve this service, we will find many Kenyans appreciating the services. We should have good customer care service. Staff in libraries must encourage our students to use library services for their own good. Madam Temporary Speaker, the only gold mine that we have as a country is education. It is the only solid gold that every Kenyan can count on. Parents struggle to give their children quality education. We have a lot of challenges with shortage of teachers. If we can build good libraries, our children will be able to walk into any library to revise and prepare themselves before doing their examinations. We, as parents, must inculcate a reading culture. Most of us do not like reading. We read shallow publications. If you compare a child who is in an international school vis-à-vis one in a public school, you will discover that the one in an international school like Rusinga School, in year one or two, is able to write and read because they have library services there. A Child who is in Rusinga School, in year one or two, for example, can write a composition because they read a book every week. For us, we wait until they join Form One, then we instill a culture of reading a book every week. These libraries should be established. The county governments should implement a policy of ensuring that when schools are closed, children go to the library to learn to be innovative and how to read. They should develop a reading culture to enhance the English language and vocabulary. In addition, we should also encourage the teachers to do research in these libraries. We should ensure that the libraries have the requisite books for teachers to enhance their skills. Nowadays, they do not have time but most of them go to the universities to build their capacity but also the libraries could also assist them. For, example, Kenyatta University has a new library with many books. We have many people who would like to donate books but they do not know where to take them. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I request that we defer the Question to a day the Chair will accept pursuant to Standing Order 54 (3).
The request is in order and hereby granted. The Question will be put tomorrow.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate on 22th October, 2015 resolved to establish a Select ad hoc Committee on Prisons and Borstal Institutions consisting of 11 Senators to inquire into the rights of detained persons and persons held in custody and other imprisoned persons under the law; REQUIRING Parliament to enact legislation to provide for human treatment of such persons with due regard to the relevant international human rights instruments and report back to the House within three months of its establishment; REALISING that the three month period lapsed on the 25th February, 2016, and owing to the magnitude of the work involved, the Committee was not able to complete its work within the stipulated period; NOTING the need for more time to carry out a thorough inquiry into this matter; NOW therefore, the Senate resolves to renew the mandate of the Committee for a further period of 45 days to enable the Committee to complete its work and report to the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am the Vice Chair of the Committee. As I second, I am guided by Standing Order No.89 that prohibits us from referring to the substance of the proceedings of a Select Committee before the Tabling of the Report. I will be guided appropriately. When the Committee was established, it was late October and the duration that we were given to report was disrupted by the Christmas break and the recess. As a Committee, we are committed to delivering on the mandate that this Senate bestowed upon us. I also thank the office of the Clerk for the support and facilitation that has allowed us to visit the various places that the Mover mentioned. Madam Temporary Speaker, the magnitude of the task ahead of us is huge. If we were to come up with the proposals to amend the Prisons and Borstal Institutions Acts is not just an issue of changing what is on paper. It is a matter of looking at the entire judicial system and coming up with significant proposals which we have realised will not be possible in the short duration that the Senate gave us. In addition to the institutions that we have visited so far, we wish to visit more and in particular the women correctional facilities. We have realised that these facilities have been ignored. Some of the cases that we witnessed are extremely sad to the extent that some Members were moved to tears. We shall come up with proposals to reform them. Therefore, we beg the House to consider this and grants us an additional 45 days so that we deliver a Report that is actionable and that will put to an end the suffering of the detained persons. I second.
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. This Committee had its work cut short by the House recess. Therefore, I support that they be granted more time. I wish this Committee will look at the issue of children that are born in detention facilities. We must domesticate the international instruments that provide for persons detained. We must look at international legislation and treaties that we have signed. Most importantly, Article 53 of our Constitution read together with the Children Act talks about the rights of children. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
There being no further requests, I call upon the Mover to reply.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank my two colleagues who have found time to contribute to this important procedural Motion. Before I conclude, I want to register my thanks to all the civil servants who have come before the Committee beginning with the Attorney-General and the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) as I had said earlier when I was moving the Motion. I also want to register my appreciation, on behalf of the Chairman of the Committee, to the warm reception we continue to receive from prisons and borstal institutions that we have been visiting. I look forward to similar receptions on our way to conclusion of our visits. Finally, I would like to thank the clerks attached to our Committee led by Ms. Rose Mudibo together with her team. I also thank the Office of the Clerk because they have been very accommodating. The Clerk was so accommodating that he even allowed us to hold a session during Christmas holidays in December. For this, we feel indebted to the Office of the Clerk. Thank you very much, I beg to move.
Hon. Senators, I want to remind you that this matter does not affect counties. Therefore, I will proceed to put the question.
Hon. Senators, all the other matters listed on the Order Paper require numbers, which we do not have. Most of them are Committee of the Whole.
The time now is 6.05 p.m. It is time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate now stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 10th March, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.05 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes