Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make. The Kenya Parliamentary Prayer Fellowship Group (KPPFG) shall host the Annual National Prayer Breakfast on Thursday, 26th May, 2016, at the Safari Park Hotel in Nairobi. It is expected that over 2,000 guests will be in attendance. This prayer breakfast is an interdenominational prayer meeting sponsored by MPs, both Senators and Members of the National Assembly. Senators are requested to confirm attendance by 15th May, 2016 in order to facilitate sitting arrangements. You are also requested to make contributions towards this noble course. The contribution form is available at the Serjeant-at- arms desk, at the entrance of the Chamber. Invitation cards to all MPs will be distributed in due course. Sen. Beatrice Elachi is coordinating on behalf of the Senate and you may contact her for further clarification. You may also wish to get in touch with the Chairman of the Kenya National Prayer Breakfast group, the Hon. (Capt.) Clement Wambugu.

Hon. Members, I also have a Message from the National Assembly on the approval of The Political Parties (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 2 of 2016).

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 (2) (b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding money belonging to small scale tea farmers placed by the Kenya Tea Development Agency limited (KTDA) in fixed deposit accounts in troubled commercial banks. In the statement, the Chairperson should:- (i) state how much money is held in fixed deposit accounts in Chase Bank limited and Imperial Bank limited and on what terms; (ii) explain whether KTDA has taken any steps to prevent possible loss of tea farmers’ money held in various commercial banks especially following the closure and placement of the two banks under receivership; and, (iii)explain the impact of the deposits held on the ability of KTDA to pay bonuses to tea farmers this year and in future.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we responded to the issue of Imperial Bank but I will check and ensure that we give a response in two weeks.

Hon. Ethuro): Vice Chair, Imperial Bank is not equated to commercial banks. It is just one of them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the way I understood, the question is referring to Imperial Bank and Chase Bank. We had responded on the same question in respect to Imperial Bank.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, you have clarified the statement I am seeking. It relates to commercial banks although I have specifically mentioned those two. This is a totally new question and I do not agree with the Vice Chair that they have responded to this. They have not responded because it has just been raised in this House.

Hon. Ethuro): The Vice Chair is asking whether you had a similar matter related to Imperial Bank.

Yes, that is correct Mr. Speaker, Sir. We did raise the question with respect to Imperial Bank, but this is now a general one referring to the experience of Imperial Bank and relating it to the rest of the commercial banks where KTDA has fixed deposits. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Ethuro): It is so ordered. The response will be in two weeks time. We now go to responses. We will start with Statement (a). Is Sen. Karaba here? Let us move to the next Statement (b). Where is the Vice Chairperson? Any Member? What is happening to your Committee?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my Chairman is not around but on behalf of the Committee, I undertake that we will report progress tomorrow.

Hon. Ethuro): Sen. Mohamud, this Statement was also on the Order Paper from yesterday. So, we will come back to it towards the end. Look for your Chairman. Let us go to Statement (c). Sen. Ndiema.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have discussed this matter with Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and we shall respond in a week’s time.

Hon. Ethuro): Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, can you confirm or deny?

I want to deny, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thought we agreed that he brings it tomorrow. So, I am surprised that he is rescheduling it to a week later. He approached me in good faith this morning to say that he is going to get the answer tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there seems to be a misunderstanding here. I had indicated to him that I will bring the answer in a week’s time because there has been a bit of delay---

Hon. Ethuro): And he heard tomorrow?

Yes, but I now ask for his indulgence for one week.

Hon. Ethuro): Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I think that is a genuine request made in good faith.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a genuine request made in good faith; I agree. However, you need to tell these chairpersons that when a deadline has been reached, as you have always ruled, they need to walk to the relevant Ministry and get the statements the way you sent Sen. Karaba who is absent and he may be in the Ministry looking for the answers.

Hon. Ethuro): I am sure the Vice Chair has heard you and I have nothing more useful to add but to agree. Let us now move to Statement (d), Chairperson for the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations; Sen. Adan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry I have just come in and I do not have the Statement with me. So, I would request Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to give us until tomorrow to respond. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no problem about tomorrow because this question has been waiting for over four months.

Sen. Dullo, did you say that the Statement will be ready tomorrow?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

It is so ordered. However, even if you have just come in now, you should have picked up an Order Paper from somewhere as you enter the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I thought that the Chairman of the Committee was in. Sometimes, it is given to me or him. I am sorry about that, but I will follow it up.

Let us go back to Statement (a) to be issued by the Chairperson of the Committee on Education.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the chance. I came late because I was literally following the Statements. They are ready but the signature is yet to be appended. I will have to camp there again and make sure that I have the two Statements with me by tomorrow afternoon. I am sorry on behalf of the Cabinet Secretary.

Order, Sen. Karaba. You should have started by apologizing.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize for coming late.

Since Sen. Omondi is not here, I order that the Statement be issued tomorrow.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was following on behalf of Sen. Omondi. These Statements have been pending for long---

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. That argument was here since yesterday. I do not think repeating it 24 hours later will make any difference.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You are out of order, Sen. Njoroge. I am commending on what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo said and have a feeling that you want to contribute in the same manner as he did. It is to your advantage to listen to me. Repeating the same things 24 hours later will not help; hold your horses until tomorrow. The Chairman has given an undertaking and an assurance that he has been camping at the office of the Cabinet Secretary. I am sure that after the end of this Sitting, he will continue to camp there. Since he seems to have been promised, let us give him the benefit of the doubt. Sen. Njoroge, I am sure that I have allayed your concerns. What is it, Sen. Njoroge?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was not far from that. When Sen. Omondi is not in, I always represent her in this House. This is because we are responsible for matters of disability. I am okay with the response from the Chairman of the Committee on Education.

Sen. Njoroge, first and foremost, you are a Senator in the Senate. As far as I am concerned, you can prosecute any matter. I also appreciate that you may The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Senators. We are in the Committee of the Whole to consider the County Governments Disaster Management Bill (Senate Bill No.40 of 2014.)

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 7 be amended in sub clause 2 by securing the following new Paragraph immediately after Paragraph (h); (ha) set up an emergency command centre within the county. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I will put the question but Division will be at the end.

Division will be at the end.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): For all the above, Division will be at the end. I now call upon the Mover, Sen. Adan.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress on its consideration of the County Governments Disaster Management Bill (Senate Bill No. 40 of 2014) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

seconded

Chairperson!

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered the County Governments Disaster Management Bill (Senate Bill No. 40 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the committee in the said report.

seconded

The Senate Majority Leader has delegated this to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:-

Shame!

It is a shame! Some of them did not own a bicycle or a motorbike before. However, today they have moved quickly from zero to hero. They are driving some of the top of the range vehicles. You may wonder about this since there are no roads there. So, things have been done upside down. We have to thoroughly audit and know which law we need to amend and improve on. We should inquire into the role of the Senate as set out in the Constitution and make recommendations on the appropriate role to be played by the Senate. I asked a number of governors whom I interacted with in the CPAIC whether they know that the Constitution states that Senators serve to protect the interest of counties. Therefore, when a Senator raises concern over buildings and other infrastructural projects, he or she is doing so on behalf of the community as their representative. Members of the public need to be consulted before some projects are initiated. The law states that Senators serve to protect the interest of the counties. However, some governors are ignorant. This means that they stopped reading the Constitution once they were elected.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we should interrogate the role of the Senate in the budget making process. Why would the National Assembly be the alpha and the omega in all matters that have financial implications yet we also protect counties whose matters have financial implications? Senators should also participate in this process. We also need to oversight the national Government. What is the role of the Senate in the same? How should the Senate relate with the national Government? We need a law to enhance the role of the Senate pertaining to this. We must highlight our oversight role over the county government in bold and in red. It has to be clear so that anybody can take note. We should put it in all languages; Kiswahili, English, mother tongue and Braille so that everybody can understand the role of the Senate with regard to county governments.

In addition, we need to examine and make recommendations on the appropriate interlinkages between all these arms. For instance, what is the linkage between the Senate and the national Government? What is the linkage between the Senate and the National Assembly? What is the linkage between the Senate and the county government? How do we link them? We call it commutative. How do they interact with the Senate and other constitutional offices?

Madam Temporary Speaker, as indicated here, we need to make the role of the Senate clear when it comes to appointment of Cabinet Secretaries and officers of independent commissions. The Senate being the custodian of the peoples’ welfare through the counties, this is vital.

Therefore, our colleagues from both sides of the House have been nominated to spearhead this. I have no doubt that they are capable and will move The General Suggestion for the Draft Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Bill, 2015 forward. We will ask our colleagues in the Okoa Kenya Initiative to bring their draft so that we can look at what we can take onboard as a Committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, may I start by acknowledging that I was privileged to have sat in the team that worked on the draft Bill for the Okoa Kenya referendum. It is equally a privilege that once again, I am sitting on this Committee. Therefore, I thank the leadership of the House for allowing us to be in the Committee.

When the Committee finally reports to the House, it is expected that it is going to make recommendations on such constitutional and legislative interventions as may be necessary to secure and safeguard the system of devolved governments in the Constitution. These include the measures necessary to ensure effective discharge by the Senate of its legislative and oversight role under the Constitution. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Wamatangi will get an opportunity to give his views.

What is it Sen. Wamatangi?

Madam Temporary Speaker, on a point of order. Is the Senator for Kakamega County in order to mislead this country by implying that either when a delegation from any community seeks to have audience with the presidency or the occupants of the office of the President, it is tantamount to balkanizing this country along tribal lines? We know it is the same tribal communities that form our nation. Our Constitution is clear because short of it, we shall be discriminating.

You are now debating. Kindly make your point. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my point is that it is not envisaged anywhere in the Constitution that any community can seek audience with the presidency and be denied because it is from a particular place. The presidency has a right to meet anyone form this country.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, can you make that clarification so that Sen. Wamatangi gets it right.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if Sen. Wamatangi is feeling uncomfortable with my contribution, he will have the opportunity to counter it. When it comes to the issue of tribalism and corruption, if you are uncomfortable, I will make you more uncomfortable.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in 1963, the challenge to this country was poverty, ignorance and illiteracy. However, thanks to the orphans of Moi---

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have moved from that noble course of fighting those enemies, but they have now brought two other enemies called the need to fight tribalism perpetuated by them and to fight corruption which was not there at the time of Independence.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who begun his contribution to introduce the names of senior citizens who did their work well? He is referring to Sen. Wamatangi as an orphan. What does he mean?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, we do not have orphans in this House but Senators. You are out of order to mention adversely the former Head of State.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I love retired President Moi. In his first 10 years, he is the one who revolutionised education in this country. When I talked about orphans - I am sorry if I was misunderstood - what I was referring to were his political and ideological orphans. When he will die, then Sen. Moi will become his orphan but for now, there are ideological and spiritual orphans.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I urge Members that if we tighten the Constitution a little bit, we might get the magic silver bullet to fight corruption. The Mover of the Motion has correctly said that almost a trillion Kenya Shillings has since been pumped into our counties. Where are the flagship projects? Because of the architecture of our Constitution, the money we have given to the governor---

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

You still have time to finalize.

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Senate Majority Leader is seconded by the Senate Minority Leader of Minority. You can clarify, so that I re-arrange my points. Please, hold my time.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, when you started your contribution, you did not take time to clarify that you were representing the Senate Minority Leader. However, if you make that clarification now, of course, you will still have a lot of time.

I am sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker. When the Senate Majority Leader delegated to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, Professor remembered to say that he was doing it on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader. In the same vein, Sen. Wetangula had asked me that he is rushing to attend---

You only needed to notify the House, which you have now duly done that. Proceed!

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. For the purposes of the HANSARD, he has said that Sen. Wetangula harassed him. He needs to withdraw that.

No! He said that Sen. Wetangula had asked him; that is what I heard.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am sorry if I was misquoted. If we fine-tune this Constitution, we might get the silver bullet to address the issue of corruption. Where are the flagship projects for the approximately Kshs1 trillion that has gone into the devolved Governments? Are they in Kiambu, Mombasa, Nakuru or Kakamega? We do not see them. Instead, Sen. Musila – the governor-in-waiting – was forced to be teargassed for him to send a point that a road in Kitui is not motorable. I beg the Members from both sides of this House that this is an opportunity for us to factor in a strategy of fighting corruption. The billions that we have given governors cannot even be audited. We, at the County Public Accounts Committee, get audit reports and wonder why we sit in the Committee. They present two pages showing Kshs30 million of unrecovered imprest. Madam Temporary Speaker, they also give you an annexure of hundreds of people who received that imprest, yet they do not speak about the abuse of money meant to do projects worth Kshs200 million or Kshs300 million. This is because the auditors are now being ‘pocketed’ by the governors whom they are supposed to audit. Why do we not improve the Constitution, so that we can catch these governors? In Kakamega, Governor Oparanya, upon being summoned to come before the Senate so as to answer how he spends public funds meant to develop Kakamega, ran to the High Court. In the High Court, they give such excuses as constitutional reference and adjournment of mention and hearing dates. This is the fourth year and the people of Kakamega have no idea how the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Shame! Shame! As if that is not enough, as late as yesterday, when the CORD principals – the depository of the future and hope of this country – went to condole with families in Huruma, the Inspector General (IG) teargassed them.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I am going to make you very uncomfortable.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is the Senator for Kakamega in order to mislead this country once more, first, by referring to individuals as orphans of politics or ideology? Even more substantive, is he in order to mislead the country that the CORD Coalition led a peaceful demonstration, while it is actually on record, including photographs and video coverage, of members of the CORD Coalition trying to break doors and entrances of public buildings, where public money has been invested, against even the ‘lowest’ law of misdemeanor? Is he in order to mislead this nation that it is allowed under the Constitution to go around the City Centre throwing stones, especially near the Kenya Methodist University (KMU), where young boys and girls go to school every day? Is it in order for the Senator to mislead this country that other Kenyans do not have equal rights as the CORD people, to enjoy their peace and do their business?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is Sen. Wamatangi in order to bring innuendos and proposals that led to excessive action by the police, by making allegations that there was somebody trying to break doors and gates or throw stones? If he cannot substantiate those claims validly, we cannot hold them on the record of this Senate. We take that as an insult, because there are ways in which those matters can be pursued by law, rather than allegations that are unsubstantiated in this Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to mislead this House that they were on a peaceful demonstration at the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) offices, when the leadership of CORD and himself are on record stating clearly that their intentions of visiting the IEBC offices was to eject---

Peacefully eject!

Order, Senators. Allow Sen. Sang to raise his point of order.

Their intention was to eject state officers, who are constitutionally in office and whose exit from that office is provided for by the Constitution. They were not in pursuit of the constitutional processes of ejecting them out of office.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is Sen. Wamatangi aware that on 21st March, I was teargassed along with other Members of Parliament while walking peacefully along a deserted road? Is he not aware that the military is being introduced into civil government by none other than Maj-Gen (Rtd.) Nkaisserry, who is a former military man? Yesterday, innocent people were also teargases in Huruma. Is this the direction the Government is moving? Is this a military or civilian Government?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Previously in this Senate, we have rejected reports from the media – newspapers and television – as a basis of any solid evidence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

As we proceed, any newspaper reports will not form part of what will be used in the Senate. Any allegations which shall not be supported by papers laid on the Table are, therefore, invalid.

I will allow one last intervention by Sen. Leshore.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is hon. Moses Kajwang in order to mislead this House by saying that he was at the forefront of the demonstration, yet from the live pictures that we saw, he ducked when they were teargassed?

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

In a debate like this, when one remembers the great debates of the late hon. Martin Shikuku, George Anyona, Josiah Mwangi Kariuki and others, one is tempted to think that all those points of order, apart from the ones ably raised by Sen. Musila, Sen. Hassan and Sen. Moses Kajwang, are nothing but just comic relief.

On the issue of stone-throwing and breaking a gate, I wish we respected other dialects and tribes. What you were hearing as noise were three tribes speaking very loudly, and allow me to quote a Swahili saying: “ Haki yetu; tunataka kuingia .” They then banged and slapped the gates. The Luos were saying: “Waduaro donjo, waduaro donjo .” The Luhyas were saying: “ Ikulikhwenya khwinjira, ikuli khwenya khwinjira.”

How does that amount to violence; those are peaceful people. Is there a violent voice?

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You are now out of order by introducing other languages that you had not sought to use in the first place. Could you proceed and stick to the point of seconding this Motion?

Madam Temporary Speaker, since they do not understand those voices, they might have thought that they were war songs. They were just pleading to be granted their right. They were just saying: “Open, we want to come in.”

On the point of order raised by Sen. Sang, I want to advice him that he must find time to read the history of this nation. In 1991 when former President Moi refused to give a registration certificate to FORD-Kenya and chose to give one to FORD-Asili, the late Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, Michael Kijana Wamalwa, Raila Odinga, Paul Muite, Gitobu Imanyara, Chibule wa Tsuma and many others went to the Office of the Registrar. Jaramogi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Senator for Kakamega has persisted on following the same line of misleading this nation.

I want you to point out what is misleading.

Madam Temporary Speaker, he made a clear presentation that they were carrying out a peaceful demonstration and now he says that they were going to the IEBC offices to do gymnastics and press-ups. What kind of gymnastics did they envisage to do inside the offices of a constitutional body that conducts elections and not gymnastics? He should have gone to the gym.

Secondly, he has used many languages that are not understood by everyone.

I have already ruled on that.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in all fairness, he is out of order, because this House has got its rules. You use one language that can be understood by all and sundry.

I have already ruled on that; maybe you were not paying attention. I pointed out to the Senator that he was out of order by using other languages.

Your question is valid but my own understanding is that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale said: “Had they gone to the offices.” My understanding is that if they went in and did gymnastics they would be probably judged otherwise, but they never accessed the offices. He is just saying what could have happened, had they gone to those offices. To my knowledge, they never went past the gates.

Sen. Hassan.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is the Senator for Kiambu aware of Article 24 (5) (c) of the Constitution that allows every Kenyan the right to assembly, demonstration, picketing and petition? The manner and nature in which that right is exercised is the discretion of those exercising that right. Whether you decide to demonstrate by sitting on the road or picket inside the offices of the IEBC it does not disclose where you can do so. You can decide to go and picket in the very offices of the IEBC, because this Constitution has not set limits on the manner and nature of the picketing or demonstration. Therefore, this Constitution will be an extremely difficult document for some of those who do not believe in a democratic and constitutional Government that respects the right to picket. There is an increasing chorus nowadays where it is perceived to be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Are Sen. Hassan and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to mislead this country that the exercise of the fundamental freedom to picket is part of the various rights and fundamental freedoms that are not subject to limitation while Article 25 of the Constitution clearly indicates those particular freedoms that cannot be limited and picketing is not one of them? That means you must picket in a manner provided for under the Constitution. If you want to inject pressure to eject members of constitutional offices, the same Constitution has provided avenues for that. Picketing is not one of those fundamental freedoms under Article 25 of the Constitution.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow them to debate their own---

Senator, take your seat. Let us hear from Sen. Bule.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is it in order for the learned Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to declare that he will apply all gymnastic means---. He said that he will remove commissioners of the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) from office by Monday by hook or by crook. That is a very serious issue because there are very many ways of killing a rat. You can go to court---

Order, Senator. You are now debating but you were on a point of order. Could you point out what is out of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what is out of order is that the Senator has declared war by saying that he will remove commissioners of the IEBC from office by Monday. That is a very serious offence!

Senator, please take your seat because you have already made your point.

Senator, proceed and answer those interventions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my distinguished son, Sen. Sang from Nandi, is a lawyer. He should not attempt to read Article 25 in isolation. He should read it with the balance of the Constitution including Article 37 and see what it says.

When I listened to Sen. Wamatangi’s point of order, I was tempted to remember the history of this country. He seems to confirm – now that we are fighting for liberation of this country – rumours that even in the first liberation, people from his part of the world never participated in the fight but they were home guards instead.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was speaking on the very important issue of teargassing.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Wamatangi, next time, you should not stand up before you are given the Floor. Every time you have asked for the Floor, I have been very kind to grant you permission.

Proceed, Senator.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I apologise for that. It is only that the Senator for Kakamega has made a very serious and wild allegation. He attempted to tell Sen. Sang to read the history of this country. He himself is the worst student of that history. He has no clue what the history of this country is like for him to make that allegation. The history of this country is clear about how the freedom of this country was fought for by many tribes including my community which had the biggest battalion of fighters in the forest during the Mau Mau Movement. He needs to apologise not only to the country but also to my community for making such an allegation when we know that the statue of Dedan Kimathi is here in the city. Dedan Kimathi is a man who sacrificed his life on behalf of the freedoms that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and his children enjoy today. It is a wild allegation and he needs to apologise.

Take your seat, Senator.

Hon. Senators, this is an honourable House. I am in agreement with the point that the Senator for Kiambu has raised. If my memory serves me right, during the fight for freedom and liberation in this country, people from Kiambu County played a critical role. Not only were they homeguards but a critical number of them were also in the Mau Mau Movement. Therefore, on that particular note, you are out of order.

I will give only one intervention to Sen. Hassan and then allow Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to conclude his contribution.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for your clarification. There are those of the Mau Mau type and the Dedan Kimathi type who chose to die on their feet rather than live on their knees. However, we also know that there was a substantial number of people who collaborated. Unfortunately, the collaborators founded this nation. That is why we mortgage the spirit of freedom in this country. That is why this country is not only free from some of the subjugations we had. I guess that is the point Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wanted to make.

Thank you for that clarification. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you may now proceed without interruption because we need to bring this to a closure.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I must make it clear to my brother and distinguished Senator for Kiambu that he misread me. I never said members of a certain community but sections of Kenyans from certain corners are said to have been collaborators. I know the history of Dedan Kimathi and others. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senator, you are now beginning to deviate from the Motion. I want you not to digress any further and go back to seconding this Motion so that we bring it to a closure.

Thank you. We hope that in the new look Constitution after our work is done, commissions will be stronger and they will not be threatened by the presidency. We also hope that the independent office holders will not be threatened by the presidency.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was speaking on the issue of the Inspector-General of police. Does it not concern members of the public and especially we, leaders, that the Inspector General – not directly but through his agents – managed to give security equipment like teargas to members of Kakamega county government to the extent that they teargassed us? These are the things that we must interrogate.

This week, there has been a big debate which started last week about the need for the National Assembly to vote wisely so as to enhance the possibility of us achieving the two-thirds gender rule. There is no greater opportunity of achieving this than to rethink the structure of the Constitution through this amendment, so that we capture once and for all, the need for us to allow our women to participate fully in governance. The few who are apprehensive about giving a plunge on the number of people that can be nominated are saying the structure of running Government is too big, expensive and wasteful. So, we have an opportunity to reduce the number of MCAs by way of reducing the number of wards. We can reduce the number of Members of Parliament (MPs) by reducing the number of constituencies. Why not?

Madam Temporary Speaker, we lost Seth Lugonzo whom we shall bury on Saturday. For that reason, I will not be able to attend the burial of Her Excellency Mama Lucy Kibaki because I will attend the burial of Seth Lugonzo, a former Assistant Minister who was an age mate and colleague of hon. Kibaki. He was able to effectively serve Shinyalu and Ikolomani constituencies combined as the original Ikolomani. We can merge some of the constituencies to reduce the number of MPs.

Point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I accept to be informed by the Senator for Kiambu.

Proceed, Senator.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my point of information to the Senator for Kakamega is that, for the constituencies to be divided into what they are today, a lot of painstaking work was done. This was to ensure that there is adequate representation of people, no matter how small the regions they were living in. I would want to inform my distinguished colleague that in some areas like my own county of Kiambu, it was even hard to achieve the 250,000 heads within a constituency. Some of our constituencies have more than 400,000 people, making it practically impossible to have adequate representation by one person. That is the basis on which most of the constituencies today found their existence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank the Member for that information. Equally, Sen. Wamatangi, what you are saying is true. You merely heard about it but we are the ones who did it. We learnt from the late Michael Kijana Wamalwa who taught us that what we did – which is what you are defining now – and which informed us to give you the current constituencies, was a good idea. However, the late Wamalwa said that a good idea can always yield ground to a better idea. So, maybe under this initiative, we will get a better idea. For your information, Sen. Wamatangi, in India, MPs represent millions of people in one constituency. Yet, India today is, in fact, the world’s largest and most successful democracy. Open up the horizons, you never know, we can perform better. Madam Temporary Speaker, when you look at the expected outcome in this initiative, the Motion expects that the Committee will inquire into the role of the Senate and set a clear structure of oversight over the national Government. If we do not do this, currently, the Senate as constituted, our claim that we represent counties and oversight over counties is only in our minds but on paper, we are toothless. We need to give the Senate real teeth so that the oversight that we are talking about is not reduced to some petty thing called oversight fund. No! You need to empower the Senate so that in the definition of a bicameral Parliament, this Senate is clearly an Upper House. Until you make this Senate a clear Upper House, the balance of the issues is just wishful thinking. If we become a proper Upper House, we will then do what I found in Poland when I visited the country. They have a proper bicameral system of Parliament where the Upper Chamber is a Chamber of reflection. After the Lower House has made legislation, the Upper House then reflects on it. With due respect to the younger Members of this House, I am not casting any aspersions against you. I am just saying what I see in the USA and Poland; a Senator cannot qualify for nomination to run for office unless they are 35 years and above. You are supposed to be in the age where you can reflect on issues. This is where we want to drive our country to the extent that I would see the future Senate to be one whereby people who have served as governors and they do not think they want to exit public life, when they quit office as governors for whatever reasons, they could then run as Senators. They will reflect on the experiences that they had when they were serving as governors to enrich the process. Madam Temporary Speaker, this Committee is expected to recommend to the Senate such other constitutional and legislative interventions that may be necessary to secure and safeguard the system of devolved government in the Constitution. The current situation where an MP from Kakamega County representing – for argument’s sake – Khwisero Constituency, with a population of 105,000, people thinks that he is at par with the Senator who represents that county with a population of two million people, is defective. Unless corrected, people might run the risk of being discouraged from spending hundreds of millions to win a senatorial seat and then end up being belittled by somebody who you literally campaigned for to become an MP. I, therefore, believe that this is an opportune moment. Let me conclude with one precaution; I am very worried about the support from the Jubilee side of this Committee. I am, in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, give Sen. Lesuuda time to give her intervention.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the honourable, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, who has eloquently executed this Motion in order to mislead the public and this House that some of the conversation that he has had informally should be generalized to mean Jubilee in totality. Those may be conversations that they could just have had while having tea. Should they be taken to be the truth and the stand of Jubilee Senators?

Senator, elaborate what exactly you meant.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I urge young politicians to read the history of the politics of the world. Senator, if you bothered to read the history of the world, you would know that those informal conversations are the ones which eventually become formal, to the extent that when the United States of America (USA) joined the World War, the decision to do so was taken on the stairs in the White House. It was not taken in the Congress.

I, therefore, caution members of the public that there is a mischievous attempt to bring this question the same time that members of the public are voting. If you bring it at a time when the public will have been given enough negative propaganda that the Senate is toothless and does not add value, they can very easily vote “No” for us having a Senate in this country.

With those many remarks, I support.

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Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be very brief because we want to go to the debate for the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2016). If there is a time we needed to stamp our authority as a Senate, this is the time especially being the second Senate. We need to have clarified roles and to have the bravery that goes with it. If you look at all the other institutions, including the Council of Governors (CoG) and the National Assembly, they have been able to remain united, push for their agenda and suppress us in everything that we try to do. We have been asking for oversight money which they know is important but they have not given it to us.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is the first time the Constitution is being implemented and there is going to be an issue about interpretation and translating it into action. That is understandable. The level of disarray that has been in operation across the various institutions has been disappointing. That is going to have an impact on devolution. Many people are now looking at the various roles. We are looking specifically at the Senate and they think we are the guardian angels of devolution, we should have protected devolution, we should continue to protect devolution and address all the issues. I know from the Senate perspective that we have done quite a lot in terms of our work in the committees, engaging with various stakeholders but we have had serious limitations. We need to find ways and means of addressing these limitations as a united Senate. We need to put our partisan interests aside, join together and begin to address our mandates and what we are meant to do in order to protect the counties.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I support this Motion and say that what has been outlined in this Motion is critical; budget making processes, revenue allocation and legislative process especially the interference from the Judiciary. I know from the CoG perspective, that they may praise it and say even the Judiciary has helped to entrench devolution. However, I know from the Senate perspective that many of the problems that we have had are as a result of the decisions of the Judiciary on issues brought by the CoG. For example, we know we have impeached governors. That was going to be one of the truths that was going to strengthen Senate but it has not worked. There is the issue of oversight over the national Government and some bodies within national Government at the county level; some devolved functions whose devolution has not been followed by the money that is needed for their functionality.

Madam Temporary Speaker, unless all these players come together and find a way of saving devolution and re-focus on what devolution was all about, then we are going to get it wrong. We stand at a pinnacle and a point in history where we must make a difference and be counted. The moment is now. If it is not now, then it is right now.

We need to look at the various issues like slow disbursements of money into the counties, transparency in allocation of money and accountability. We cannot say that the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) cannot be used to address issues of money that is lost within counties and spent on buying wheelbarrows at huge costs. It is disappointing that we have not been able to get to the bottom of the various issues affecting devolution. I think this committee is up to the task and they will get there. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will also be very brief because we want to move to the next item. I have two things; first, the architecture of the Constitution is very clear. It is the Constitution that envisages the sovereignty of the people, the rule of law, good governance, accountability and transparency in Government. In that regard, two important institutions were established in terms of accountability, transparency, the rule of law, the Legislature and the Judiciary. In between them are constitutional commissions. I would have expected the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) before it went out of office to have come out with a position paper guiding the nation as to where amendments were needed in this Constitution to improve its architecture.

As you can see, the discordance between the Senate and the National Assembly is as a result of some poor architecture in the Constitution. Further, the ineffectiveness of the constitutional commissions is due to poor architecture between the powers of the Executive and the independence of these commissions. Therefore, in the history of constitution making, we know, for example, the United States of America’s (USA) Constitution was amended extensively within the first five years of its existence including introducing a Bill of Rights in that Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is unfortunate that five years are ending before we make substantial improvements in the architecture of our Constitution, to make it meet the principles that I have stated, which it was meant to meet. Therefore, the establishment of this particular Committee is not only overdue, but urgent. It is not being established simply just to help this House, but to help in improving the architecture of our Constitution, which is wanting and should be undertaken by carefully thought out amendments. Therefore, in the debates that have gone on this afternoon, mention has been made of the need to reform the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC), which as it exists today, is neither legal nor competent. Therefore, any action taken to remove it by the people is, indeed, welcome. After failing to perform its duties, it cannot be defended in law because it is those laws that it has abrogated. I, therefore, wish to support this Motion. I am looking forward to the Committee being set up by the Senate to deliver its responsibility expeditiously.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. I had the privilege and honour to chair the Committee that was constituted before to discuss the areas of amendments and it did a good job. It was composed of most of the current Members who are still in this Committee. Most of us in this House agree that there are issues that need to be amended in the Constitution. Most of us in the country - not just in this House - believe that there are certain things that need to be amended in the Constitution. That is the general agreement across the political divide. Nowhere have we said that the Constitution should not be amended. Even as we agreed on the time, this Committee will play a critical role in terms of providing the roadmap of achieving that which is agreed upon by Members across the board.

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On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I did not want to interrupt my friend, Sen. Murkomen, but is he in order to aver that there are signatures that are not valid, without at the same time explaining to this House, in an authoritative manner, what a signature is? Is the Senator in a position to distinguish between a valid signature written in Amharic, hieroglyphics and Gujarati?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not understand which signatures and language Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o has talked about. Of course, he is intimidating me with his professorial abilities and strengths. However, on a serious note, there has to be a legislation, going forward, as part of our recommendations, to give credibility and legislative framework that operationalizes the popular initiative and mechanism of amending the Constitution so that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not want to be left behind in expressing support for this important Motion this evening. Indeed, this Committee will give the Senate an opportunity to look at the pitfalls that we have experienced as a result of our last constitutional review that put the Senate as an ineffective organ. Although this is the fourth year, this will look like a mid-term review of what the challenges were with regard to devolution and how best the different institutions will have complemented each other. It will provide an opportunity to create synergy, so that we can see the successes of devolution. Quite a number of times, we have had challenges in terms of making sure who plays what role in terms of oversight functions between the county assemblies and the Senate. This is something that is clear in our Constitutional framework. Through this Committee, we will look at how best we can create the different linkages of the different institutions. I want to link my thought with that of Sen. Murkomen with regard to the failure of the National Assembly to give us our allocation that would help us to monitor and evaluate the various programmes that were undertaken in our various counties. I have come to the conclusion that it is the National Assembly that is rendering the Senate ineffective. This is the Eleventh Parliament. I am, therefore, surprised that there is no voice of reason in its membership. The Senate is a House that works in a bipartisan manner and looks at issues objectively as opposed to the rogue National Assembly. I am disheartened by the manner in which they have treated the Senate many at times.

I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to support this Motion. From the time I got to this House, I have wondered why we set up a Senate such as this one. It is even more curious that some of the drafters of this Constitution are eminent Members of this House.

When I look at the majority membership of this House, they are people who in one way or the other were involved in drafting the current Constitution. It is on that basis that the populace saw them as senior politicians befitting the honour of sitting in this House. Sometimes I wonder whether someone put something in their drink when they were making the final decision in Naivasha. I hear that it is in Naivasha that the decision to water down the powers of the Senate was arrived at.

In my view, we do not need the Senate as presently constituted and defined in the Constitution. We would rather scrap the Senate and forget about it. We would rather go to the counties, get the majority leaders from county assemblies to sit in one place in Nairobi and task them with the duty to protect and defend the interests of the counties.

There is no need for someone to campaign in an entire county, similar to what the governor is doing, then after that, they come to Nairobi and they are told that their job is to sit and do some very peripheral work. As presently constituted, we are better off scrapping the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. It was a privilege for me to sit in the earlier Select Committee that looked at some of the constitutional and legislative interventions that this Committee will look at. It will determine how best to implement those recommendations either through popular initiative or come up with other recommendations. It is evident that we need to look at how we can enhance our Constitution. If leaders, both in the National Assembly and the Senate had the good will, we would not have had to change our Constitution this early. We would have continued to implement it and pick lessons of what we can do. However, there has been no goodwill. It is my hope and desire that even after the recommendations are done and the popular initiative carried out, in future, leaders should learn and invest more on having the political goodwill for serving Kenyans. We have always talked about the need to strengthen this House. Its role has to be strengthened. In the Constitution, its role is clear but because of lack of---

Madam Temporary Speaker, please protect me from the loud consultations that are going on here.

Hon. Senators, consult in low tones so that Sen. Lesuuda can give her contribution.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have always said that the role of this House is very clear under Article 96 of the Constitution. However, the goodwill that I talked about has been lacking. That is why we have to categorically strengthen the role of the Senate. It is important for Kenyans and all of us to know that many are the times that debate has been whether we really need this House or not. As Kenyans, we should all know that when we strengthen the Senate, we strengthen devolution and delivery of services to Kenyans. So, it is important for us to look at ways to do so. The oversight role of the Senate should be very clear for it to get resources to do oversight categorically. This will ensure that the public get the services that they desire. I would like to add to what Sen. M. Kajwang said. It is as if he read my mind. Many of those who sit in this House who have had the experience and always contributed on issues to do with how we should strengthen this House were in one way or another involved in the Constitution making process of this country. I would like those who will sit in this Committee not to think that probably they will not sit in this House again. Many of them will be contesting for the position of governor and, so probably, would not need a strong Senate. We should make laws for posterity regardless of whether in the next election you will find yourself in this Senate or not. Madam Temporary Speaker, having listened to the contributions of some of my colleagues, even when this Motion was seconded, there is already some suspicion on whether The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply.

Hon. Senators, I will proceed to put the question. I wish to remind the House that this Motion does not affect counties. The process of constituting this Committee to undertake this responsibility does not affect counties but when they give their report to the House, it will. So, we shall vote then. I will proceed to put the question as set out in the Order Paper.

Next order!

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that The County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2016) be read a Second Time. This is one of the most important Bills that we pass every year. It divides the revenue of the nation between the two levels of Government. The process that has led us to this Bill is protracted. Other than the longevity of the process, this Bill is a product of consensus building from as early as 15th February every year when the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury issues the Budget Policy Paper which is debated and passed by each of the two Houses of Parliament.

Therefore, this House has been involved from the onset by virtue of the Constitution and the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act of 2012. Notably, also the negotiations between the various agencies of state, including the National Executive, the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC); the organ that deals with the budget and economic affairs, and all other agencies have in the last two months been involved in negotiations on this Bill and its contents. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. With the utmost respect, is the Senate Majority Leader in order to impute improper motive on colleagues who have indicated that they will fight corruption from within the ranks of the administration of county governments by suggesting that they are motivated by the trappings of power? Could he substantiate that, failure to which he should withdraw and apologise?

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not---

Order, Senator. That point of order is very valid. You need to respond to that particular point of order. Before you do that, Sen. Murkomen seems to have another point of order.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I do not know how to handle this. You know, we cannot challenge the authority of the Chair. However, is it in order for me, being just a Member of the House, to refer to newspapers and social media reports that pointed out that the Chair might also be an interested party in this matter?

Sen. Murkomen, you are completely out of order. What I did was precisely procedural. I just asked the Senate Majority Leader to respond to a valid point of order raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

The Senate Majority Leader, could you respond to that point of order?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will respond to that point of order as follows. Ordinarily, I do not exemplify my points using riddles. However, you will allow me to say that there is a riddle I heard from one of the people who are notorious of using riddles. It is about how a lion chased an antelope that disappeared somewhere in a rocky place. The lion found a hippopotamus grazing nearby that rock. He asked him whether he had seen the dik-dik but the hippopotamus did not talk. He asked the rock; Mr. Rock, have you seen the dik-dik? But the rock, of course, could not reply. He repeated the second and third time but the rock was silent. Then, he told the rock and the hippopotamus that you may not answer me but you have heard me. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o is also a former Minister for Planning and also held many other dockets.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to second the Motion. To begin with, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya which is about Transitional and Consequential Provisions. I will be particular on Provision 17 on Provincial Administration which states that:- “Within five years after the effective date, the national government shall restructure the system of administration commonly known as the provincial administration to accord with and respect the system of devolved government established under this Constitution.”

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you go to the section that gives definitions to terms used in the Constitution, I am sure it will give you a definition of “the effective date.” The Mover of this Motion, who is the Senate Majority Leader in the House, is a lawyer. I am sure he has advised the Government when the effective date of the Constitution was. Indeed, we are way passed the effective date and there has been no indication, whatsoever, either in terms of sessional papers or Bills that state the steps that the Jubilee Government has taken to respect this provision in the Constitution.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have talked about it, the Mover has said quite rightly and it has been said in both the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and the CPAIC of this House that one of the problems in the counties is wastage and pilferage. One of the problems in the national Government is also wastage and pilferage. The biggest problem of wastage is that we are running two systems of government; the national Government and devolved The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Did you hear Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o call this Bill Division of Revenue instead of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I apologise because we deal with the division of revenue in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. This is the County Allocation Revenue Bill. It comes after the Division of Revenue Bill, I understand that. However, the point is still made. Whether it is the Division of Revenue Bill or the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, have we ever taken time? I know that as the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we try to do so but as the Senate, let alone the committees, now that the Bill is in front of us, can we for certain look at the Bill against the functions performed by devolved governments and satisfy ourselves that monies have been allocated to these functions?

I will just mention two things in the county Government. The county government is given the responsibility of looking after the environment which is an extremely important function. The environment is now more or less everything. If you look at function No.10 – implementation of specific national Government policies on natural resources and environmental conservation including soil and water conservation and forestry, I would bet you my bottom dollar that if you go through the 47 counties, very few of them allocate sufficient resources for environmental conservation.

Note that the national government in its policies, prescribes to the county governments how to use revenues for soil and water conservation and forestry. I am speaking with authority in this because when I was head of programmes at the African Academy of Sciences many years ago, we developed a project for the whole of Africa called soil and water management in Africa. It influenced many African Governments to connect the issue of soil and water management and afforestation.

In my own county; the county of Kisumu, only 1 per cent of the land surface is forested. This is a disaster in the making. If I go to my City of Kisumu County, the only section of the city which is partially forested is Milimani. The rest of the estates where people live; whether it is Nyalenda, Obunga or Manyatta, afforestation is wanting. You know that part of the problem with climate change is a destruction of the environment that has made haywire the climate of the world.

It is not by mistake that the framers of this Constitution gave this responsibility to counties because people live in counties. I would like us, when we retreat, after the budget, that we take time to look at the budgets that have been passed so far and functions of devolved governments and find out whether year in year out, we have not been doing good service to our counties.

The other thing that I want us to talk about us is putting in place structures of devolution. Again, I would like to inform this House that if you examine all counties in Kenya today, none of them has put in place structures of devolution as enshrined in the Constitution and in the County Governments Act. I do not think there is any county today which has a village council. None! Yet, people in counties live in villages. If devolution is going to be a mashinani affair, it has to go down to the villages and it must be budgeted for because those village councils must function in line with the Constitution and the County Governments Act.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I did not wish to interrupt Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o but it is a small procedural Motion because of---

Hold professor’s time, please.

Professor, take your seat.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I can see we are approaching 6.00 p.m. Considering that we are likely to go for recess tomorrow and we wanted to debate on this motion comprehensively, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 33 (a), to move that the House extends its sitting today until the current business in the Order Paper Nos. 10, 11 and 14 are concluded. I ask Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is very rare for the Jubilee Government leadership to come up with innovative ideas in this House. Due to this distinction today; that the Leader of the Majority has been very innovative, I wish to second his proposal Whole heartedly and congratulate him for the rare moment.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, you have three more minutes.

Those are very few. I would like to move that my time be extended.

Regarding conditional grants, I have seen in the Bill provisions in annexes on frameworks for managing conditional grants. With regard to Level 5 hospitals, I hope that these conditions will be met.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one proposal I would like to make is where it says that responsibilities for the national Government Accounting officers to set conditions for transfers and monitor compliance. I would like one of the conditions that should be set by this civil servant if I was in his position is that, when this money goes to the county treasury, it should not take more than two weeks before it is transferred to the Treasury or the referral facilities. It should not be in the county treasury for more than two weeks. When it gets there, since it is a conditional grant and the county government is just a recipient authority, the money should be transferred to the referral facilities.

Thereafter, the referral facilities, since they were previously managed by the national Government, should have regulations from the Ministry of Health on how to periodically account for this money to the county government. What is happening is that county governments are shortchanging referral facilities and monies are used for other things while health is suffering.

Finally, as we move in the last year of the first devolved government executives and structures, I am afraid that because of the tremendous sense of impunity that executives in county governments have shown, this Senate should take extra care to safeguard assets and revenues in county governments. This issue should be discussed substantively. We in the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) have mentioned and discussed it with the Auditor-General, and I think it is an important issue and I hope that this Senate--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this important Bill. This is the effort which I have seen from devoted Senators when they stood and fought for their counties when they worked on the Division of Revenue Bill in ensuring that their counties are adequately resourced and financed, to ensure that services are delivered to the people that they represent. I know that we had a lot of back and forth in ensuring that we have a formula that does not leave any other part of this country marginalized.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is important to note that it is the spirit of devolution and of some Members of this House to ensure that some of the things that we have fought for over a long time will be seen. That is why, even as we look at sharing of revenue, I can see a significant increase in the money that will go to Samburu County, which is my county. There was a lot of ‘give and take’ for counties. The Senators ensured that no county will feel that it has been neglected or it does not get what it desires.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I would like to say, even as we debate on the monies going to the counties, for a very long time – and it was the aspirations of many Kenyans when we passed this Constitution, and I know many of us have set pace over and over again – that devolution was one of the driving forces. It was one of the things that made Kenyans clamour for a new Constitution because, for a long time, we have seen that when services and resources were based at the national level, then we continued to have counties and people of different parts of this country getting marginalized and left behind.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is why many of us in this House continue to aspire and fight for that aspiration shared by the many Kenyans who voted for this Constitution. They want to see that the resources that leave the national Government go to the counties and deliver the services intended for. Many a times when Senators rise to deliberate on these issues, especially when allocating funds, you would hear comments from other quarters that the Senate does not support devolution. If there is any House that supports and oversights on how the resources are used at the county level, it is this House. Some people belong to the school of thought that those of us who come from areas that were marginalized for over 50 years should be happy and appreciate the little that we are getting, for example, the tarmacked roads and street lights. I implore our county governments to think of life-changing issues that can stand out in each county, beyond what is almost basic and standard like ambulances, tarmacked roads and street lights. They should have projects that stand out and directly transform the lives of the people in a big way. I implore our Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) to not only do their oversight work, but also prioritize issues. For example, if they allocate funds for lighting and they complete it in the first year, they could allocate a huge amount of money to one project in the county that would have a greater impact and transform the lives of the people of the respective counties. I hope that in the near future each county will stand out in the things that they are good at. For example, counties in the pastoralist areas should stand out in pastoralism since livestock is a devolved function. Counties should put structures in place and look for markets, including The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Please, proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to start by drawing your attention to the Speaker’s Gallery. It is empty. You should issue a reprimand to the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA). When we are discussing this Bill, they are supposed to sit there. That is the tradition of Parliament. When such a Bill on the budget is being discussed in the National Assembly, the National Treasury is ably represented by senior officers so that they can take into account some of the views hon. Senators are making for purposes of perfecting the Bill in the next financial year. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill but I would like the public to know that for the last three years, governors have been behind lack of knowledge surrounding this Bill by members of the public. They mislead them that the reason why they have challenges in the county is because there is a problem with the policy from the national Government. This is a lie. Therefore, as provided for in Clause 5, I would like the public to know that over and above the equitable sharable revenue for every county, this Senate through the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has worked many long hours with the National Treasury and the CRA. We have settled and provided for extensive amounts of money in the name of conditional grants. This includes grants for Level 5 hospitals, and special purpose grants for supporting emergency medical services. We thought about this in view of only two counties bordering the Somalia; to equip the hospitals in Lamu and Hola to meet the emergency requirements, especially surgical procedures. It includes conditional grants for maternal health care as envisaged by the announcement by the President earlier on in his term. He wanted to ensure that under the leadership of the Jubilee Government, the public would get access to free maternal health services. This has been provided for. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a provision for an allocation to compensate county health facilities for foregone user fee revenue. Members of the public need to understand what this money is meant for. It allows all Government hospitals to give outpatient free medical services. The national Government then compensates the county administration for those services. Therefore, first, there would be no reason whatsoever why a member of the public should be asked to pay any fee at the outpatient. Secondly, there would be no reason why services would plummet for lack of money because this conditional allocation is given to the county governments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is an equal allocation of Kshs95 million to all county governments to ensure that the medical equipment that was purchased under suspect procurement procedures by the National Treasury is actually paid for and is not a strain on the county governments. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of Order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has pointed out to the question of allocation of revenue formula being delayed in the National Assembly. Would I be in order to ask whether it is still in order for us to proceed with a Bill that uses an erroneous formula? I am very careful because I am part of the moving of the Bill itself. Article 217 of the Constitution says:- “Once every five years, the Senate shall, by resolution determine the basis for allocating money among the counties the share of revenue that is annually allocated to the county level of government.”

There is a lot of reference to the Senate. The resolution then goes to the National Assembly. Are we, therefore safe to pass this allocation of revenue in the manner it is or should we have been proactive to use the old generation formula? Could we perhaps ask the National Assembly to expedite the passing of the new formula, which now gives us the credibility to have no quarrels after passing the other formula? Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised a very valid issue; it is not a point of order against him. I am just asking for directions from the Speaker. I did not mean to interrupt him rudely.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Murkomen is perfectly in order. When this matter came to my attention, I pursued it further; let me not go into details. I was persuaded and concurred that under Article 218 (1), in a period of at least two months before the end of each financial year, there shall be introduced in Parliament a Division of Revenue Bill. We needed to do first reading before 30th April. We did the First Reading and are now in the Second Reading. However, the law does not stop us from amending the Bill once it is adopted into law. We can then amend it quickly, so as to align the schedules with the new formula the way it will affect this Bill. However, should you choose to make a substantive ruling, you can do it at your own convenience.

Sen. M. Kajwang, what is your point of order?

On a point of Order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. On the same point, Article 218 (1) (b) says:- “A county Allocation of Revenue Bill, which shall divide among the counties the revenue allocated to the county level of government on the basis determined in accordance with the resolution in force under Article 217.” By the time we are looking at The County Allocation of Revenue Bill, which we are discussing today, the expectation is that everything started in Article 217 of the Constitution should have been observed and implemented. Since we have been magnanimous enough to extend time so that we can exhaust this matter, I would love to go home knowing very clearly how much, to the last cent, Homabay County, whose delegation I represent, will get. Would I be in order to say that, if we look at Article 218)1)(b), what we are doing today is improper?

Sen. (Dr.) Zani!

On a point of Order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not sure exactly which article to refer to in the Constitution. However, I know that there is a constitutional cover; that unless the new law comes into effect, the old one holds. Therefore, we are basing our argument on that. We are going to discuss using the old law, but when we have the new law, we can go back and amend. There is no lacuna, as it were, within the law. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I attempt to respond to Sen. Murkomen and Sen. M. Kajwang in detail. I would like to invite Sen. Murkomen to look sat Article 217. He has ably read Article 217(1). However, he should look at Article 217 (8), which reads:- “The Senate may by a resolution supported by at least two-thirds of its Members amend a resolution at any time after it has been approved.” Therefore, we shall make an entry under Article 217 (8), hoping that we will raise two- thirds majority. However, you can make further directions later on.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will recall that you raised this particular issue substantively before the Speaker and he agreed that there were issues that he would respond to substantively. However, if you look at Article 217(4) of the Constitution, you will find that it gives the National Assembly a window of 60 days. Therefore, that means they are still perfectly within the constitutional provisions for them to make a determination on the resolutions that we made as a Senate. Obviously, when that determination is achieved by the National Assembly, definitely, we will have to sit down and look at how to realign that with the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. I am aware that if they make that resolution within the shortest time possible, they could still amend this Bill during the Third Reading to realign it to the Second Generation Formula. Therefore, at this point, let us proceed. The Speaker gave a direction that he will advise on the same. This is the Second Reading and we still have the Committee of the Whole and the Third Reading of this Bill and more opportunity to deal with this issue as we move on.

So guided. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was speaking to the people of Kakamega. I told them that the rot in the health sector is not acceptable at all in Kakamega, especially the former Provincial General Hospital (PGH) which is now Kakamega Level 5 Hospital. The national Government has given, as it did in the last and previous financial years, Kshs406,936,416 specifically to make the former Kakamega PGH work. Kakamega PGH never used to receive hundreds of millions of shillings at the time I was in the Ministry of Health (MoH) in 1990. We never used to receive money. I was able to run that hospital with 972 nurses. Today, they have only 200 nurses. We had five medical specialists in gynecology, surgery, pediatrics---

Add him one more minute.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I therefore want to tell the people of Kakamega that after adding equitable share to conditional grants, they will receive Kshs10, 518, 265,490. With all that money, why should we not develop Kakamega? Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, in spite of your good advice to me, some of us want to retreat back to the county, so that the Kshs10 billion can count. We cannot just continue crying every day that the money is not being seen by way of projects when we are in a position to remove the governors. I urge the Senator for Nandi who is my neighbour not to stay here as a Senator. Because of the shared interest between Nandi and Kakamega, let us go and remove those jokers.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. This is the Chair.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you. I support.

Sen. Murkomen.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this very important Bill. This is a very important legislative function and one of those very key responsibilities for all Senators. There is a lot that has been said about this House, including earlier by Sen. Kajwang. It is not true that this Senate is weak or has less responsibility. It is true that this Senate is being frustrated. It is also true that there is a skewed interpretation of sections of the Constitution to narrow the legislative and oversight scope of the Senate. The truth of the matter is that if you had a liberal purposive interpreter of the Constitution in the other House, you would achieve a lot without necessarily going through this kind of abuses that this House has received over time.

There has also been a continuation of insults by sections of the society that if governors want us to do something like we did in the transfer of functions; like we did in increasing resources in the Division of Revenue Bill; and like we have done in passing legislations that are facilitating counties to operate; they have been ready to celebrate and support this House. However, when we raise oversight questions and mismanagement of resources you, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I know this. I have had occasions to discuss with them some of these situations. Most county executives led by the governor have this attitude that, in any case, they were going to receive money whether the Senate is there or not.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me tell them in basic and simple English that without the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, however much the formula is sitting there and you can imagine that there is money that could have come, until there is a signature of this House and that this House says something about allocation of money, there is no other way that they can receive that money. There is no other entity or institution that can correct the anomalies and errors that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talked about, of giving money meant for Busia County to Bungoma County. There is no other House that can amend the County Allocation of Revenue Formula to respond to the challenges as required every year. It is only this House that sat down to determine the County Allocation of Revenue Formula. So, it is correct to say that the Senator of a particular county was the one that assisted that particular county to ensure that they receive the resources that they received; and that is their constitutional responsibility under Article 96.

I have no apology when I stand in Elgeyo-Marakwet County and say that through my efforts as the Senator of Elgeyo-Marakwet County, such and such money has been allocated to my county. This is because I have the signature and the final authority to speak on behalf of Elgeyo-Marakwet County in this House and persuade my colleagues that together, we can pass a particular Bill and allocate money to the county.

Be that as it may, I need to point out a few issues. One is that now, there is clear allocation of money, and particularly in the Second Schedule which provides for conditional allocations from the national Government to counties. As you may very well know, in the Constitution, that money can only be used for the conditions provided for under law. Again, it is this House that gives us the legitimacy to say that Elgeyo-Marakwet County will receive Kshs189 million as conditional grants for free maternal health care.

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On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Did you hear my good neighbor, Sen. Murkomen, talk of a strange name; Kibor? What is Kibor? He should tell this House what the connection between that name and free maternity hospital is.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Kibor, for those of you who may not have had chance to understand what it means, is a person born on the way, by the roadside. These are people born when the mother was going to the river, or she might have been going on with her daily chores but because there is no determination of ability to be born in a maternity facility, we have so many Kibors that are born on the way. I have no problem if we retain the Kibors being born on the way to the hospital. But we must---

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Murkomen in order to continuously repeat using a word in a different language from what he started from?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a name. It is like mentioning Sen. Sang. There is no English version of your name. That is the only name.

Therefore, for that reason, I want to see my county, not giving excuses because they have already been given Kshs50 million, and they have the liberty to allocate the other money which is not a conditional grant; the part of the equitable revenue they receive for the same maternity care services. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on conditional leasing medical equipment, there has been debate that some counties have received the medical equipment while others have not. Now that Kshs95 million has been set aside for Elgeyo-Marakwet County to receive medical equipment, there is no reason why Chebyemit Hospital should not have resources and why Iten County Referral Hospital should not have resources. I was asked this question over the weekend at a place called Kaptiony in Cherangany-Chebororwo Ward; they asked why they do not have Intensive Care Unit (ICU) services in Iten County Referral Hospital or in Chebyemit. Now, there will be no excuse from Elgeyo-Marakwet County and we will ensure that that is done. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, look at grants for roads and maintenance fuel levy; Kshs54 million has been given to my county. This amount of money can do wonders in Elgeyo- Marakwet County because it is able to open roads. The other day, I accompanied the President when he went to launch huge machinery for Uasin Gishu County. I saw Gov. Jackson Mandago; when they had problems with drainage and roads being impassable, he did not ask the question whether the roads fall under the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA), Kenya Rural Urban Authority (KURA) or Kenya National Highway Authority (KeNHA) roads. He mobilized that equipment, went and opened the roads – some of us who were travelling by road through Uasin Gishu were assisted otherwise, we would have been blocked on the way. In some counties, there is a debate. Governors are folding their hands and saying; that is a KeNHA, KERRA, or KURA road. We must allow service to be delivered to the people and we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Agnes Zani.

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Which one do you mean? There are two upstanding professors.

I meant Sen. (Dr.) Philomena Agnes Zani.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I can see rigging and biasness here. I was first to rise on my feet.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is whoever catches your eye first that you give opportunity to. Let Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo wait until he catches your eye.

Please proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to this Bill that seeks to allocate the revenue share of Kshs280.3 billion across the various counties. I thank all the players who worked so hard to contribute to this Bill including the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA), the National Treasury and all the other stakeholders for the negotiations and level of high participation in addressing the various issues so as to end up with an allocation that is acceptable in the various counties. The amount of money being given to the counties can transform them. Looking at the coast counties where I have an interest, Kilifi County has an allocation of Kshs8 billion, Kwale County has an allocation of Kshs5 billion, Lamu County has an allocation Kshs2 billion, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I join my colleagues in supporting this Bill. I declare to all and sundry that when we came in 2013, we had to come up with a County Allocation of Revenue Bill, 2013. Then, for every other year, the County Allocation of Revenue Bill has been passed by this House. I went home and found an erroneous statement being paraded by people in the county that no Senator brings money to the county. They went ahead to say that whether or not the Senate exists, money will still flow to the county. What an erroneous belief. If this Senate does not vote for this Bill, then county governments will cease to receive funding until such a time when their representative, who is the protector, votes in this House It is important that we tell everybody that the lies being floated around by every other person should be ignored. The Senate is the ultimate authority. The Commission of Revenue Allocation (CRA) is an arm of Senate. They bring a proposal and if we reject it, there is nothing they can do.

This year, more money has been allocated to the counties than last year. It is not enough but it is more per county and, more particularly, the grants that go to counties should be seen on the ground, because they are given deliberately for a particular purpose, say, allocation for maternal health care. There is a very particular arrangement in the tabulation; a column for county, number of deliveries and projected income. The number of deliveries state that Bungoma had 32,000 newborns. As a result of that number of children being born, they have been given Kshs189 million to be distributed among the health facilities they have there. Kiambu had 37,000 newborns, meaning that they will get Kshs221 million. My county, West Pokot, has 8,757 deliveries recorded. So, it will get Kshs51 million.

Sen Murkomen talked about a man called Kibor. There are so many Kibors and Chebors in West Pokot who are not born in hospitals. Why do we give more money to people who have clear systems to access these facilities, yet others have not been captured? I expected places like The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to support this Bill, knowing very well that my job description as a Senator is in Article 96 of the Constitution. For avoidance of doubt, Article 96 gives me and the rest of my colleagues the power to determine the allocation of national revenue among counties. That is the purpose for which we are discussing this Bill today. I just wish that all of us would have taken this particular mandate very seriously. If you go further in the Constitution, Articles 217 and 218 also talk about the process which this Bill should go through before it finds its way to this House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also want to echo the sentiments that have been put forth by my colleagues that money cannot get to the county if the Senator does not approve or vote for this County Allocation of Revenue Bill. As you sometimes put it, when you come to Nairobi to legislate and represent the people of your county, you are like someone who goes to shake a tree so that the fruits can fall down. Today through this Bill, we are shaking this tree so that our respective counties can get their fair share of revenue allocated to them from the nationally generated revenues.

For the people of Homa Bay County, I have got good news because this Bill proposes an increment in the amount of money that they are going to get as compared to the previous years. The equal share for Homa Bay County has increased to Kshs6 billion, up from Kshs5.6 billion in the previous year. When you sum up the equal share and the conditional allocations, Homa Bay County stands to get Kshs6.4 billion, up from Kshs5.9 billion that it received in the previous year. The additional Kshs500 million that goes to Homa Bay County, I want to believe that the executive at the county will put it to good use. I believe they will invest it in projects that will uplift the standards of living and provide relief to our mothers and sisters who suffer from acute water shortages in certain parts of the county like Rachuonyo area. I hope this additional Kshs500 million will go towards improving and modernizing the health facilities in the county.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when our health facilities are not in good shape, it is our women who suffer most. I hope this additional Kshs500 million will go towards combating the HIV/AIDS situation in the county. My county has the highest HIV/AIDS prevalence rate in the country and probably the highest prevalence rate globally. I hope this additional Kshs500 million will go into some of the sectors that will have a direct impact on the lives of the people.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have had a debate on how to treat the second generation formula which this House has already approved but is still lying in the National Assembly. When I look at the new formula which forms the basis of allocation of revenue, I do not see a significant difference because the weight that was assigned to population remained at 45 per cent. The weight that was assigned on land area remained at 8 per cent and fiscal responsibility remained at 2 per cent. It is equal share where the percentage shifted from 25 per cent to 26 per cent and a development factor was introduced. I do hope that when we now apply the second generation formula to the amount of money that has been set aside for counties, Homa Bay County is going to get slightly more than what has been apportioned here.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I must point out that Parliament has occasioned unnecessary delays in the process of passing the two Bills; the Division of Revenue Bill and the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. The Public Finance Management Act has got very clear timelines within which some of these decisions need to be made. As we speak, the counties should be attempting to develop their budgets. The County Budget and Economic Fora should be holding The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

There being no other interest to contribute on this matter. I call upon the Mover to reply.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank all Senators for the interesting and vibrant debate. It is clear that we all support devolution because it is the silver bullet that will rescue our country from marginalization. Through this Bill, we are affirming that devolution is here to stay. We are sending more money to counties than ever before and I am sure that this will continue in the foreseeable future. It is also clear that all of us abhor the corruption that is taking place in our counties. We say categorically that time has come for all the thieves who are scavenging on county resources to be put on notice. This House will not rest until we are sure that the money we send to our counties is used to achieve the functions of the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. Regarding the story of “teething theft” which we have been told of many times, I have always argued that there is no teething problem called “theft.” You do not have to have any capacity to know that stealing is bad and is a crime before God and the people of Kenya.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to move. If you allow me, I request that you use your power and discretion to defer the putting of the question under Standing Order No.54(3) of the Senate Standing Orders.

Very well. I so direct that we defer the putting of the question

What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I need your clarification and guidance. My brother, Sen. Murkomen, is advising me that it does not matter but I think it does. The clarification I seek is whether that deferment is to tomorrow. The reason is that we expect the Senate to go on recess. If it is not clear, then the Bill will be in the Order Paper for Division. So, I request that the matter be deferred for Division tomorrow.

Very well. We have always deferred putting of the question to the next available day for voting; in this case, recognizing that we are likely to proceed to recess, I, therefore, direct that it be deferred to tomorrow. Hon. Senators, we approved a Motion that extended the sitting of this House until we complete two orders on our Order Paper; Order Nos.10 and 11. Those two items relate to Committee of the Whole. Therefore, we will do so for the two items, at a go, so that we dispense with the two items. Next Order!

Hon. Senators, we are now in the Committee of the Whole. We will start with The County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 27 of 2014).

Division will be at the end.

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Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT clause 8 of the Bill be amended by- (a) Deleting sub-clause (a); (b) Deleting sub-clause (c) and substituting therefor the following new sub- clause- (c) Community and cultural diversity of the county.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, this is take into consideration the importance of cultural diversity of the county.

I beg to move:-

THAT clause 9 of the Bill be amended in the introductory phrase by inserting the words “under section 12(3) (d) of the County Governments Act” immediately after the words “member of the Board”.

This amendment is to align the law with other sections of the law. It is cross referencing.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT clause 10 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “A appointed” appearing at the beginning of the clause and substituting therefor the words “A person”.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, sir, I beg to move:-

THAT clause 12 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub-clause immediately after sub-clause (a)-

(aa) sue and be sued;

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, sir, I beg to move:-

THAT clause 16 of the Bill be amended at subsection (2) by inserting the words “and the Board” immediately after the words “chairperson of the Board”.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT clause 30 of the Bill be deleted.

Mr. Temporay Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT clause 43 of the Bill be deleted.

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT Clause 46 of the Bill be amended at subsection (3) by deleting the words “Cabinet Secretary” appearing immediately after the words “the authority of the” and substituting therefor the word “Board”.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 14- Allowances for

14A. Members of the Board shall be paid such members of

allowances as the Salaries and the Board

Remuneration Commission may determine.

The uptake for this is to ensure that the institution of Salaries and Remuneration Commission which is the Constitutional body to undertake these matters of allowances takes charge.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after clause 47- Amendment of No.17 47 A. Section 12 of the County Governments Act of 2012

is amended by- (a) Deleting subsection 3 and substituting therefore the following new subsections- (3)The Board consists of— (a) the Speaker of the county assembly, as the chairperson; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Chairman Sir, I beg to move that the Bill be amended by inserting the folliwng new Clause 47B Transition (1) Subject to subsection (2) each county assembly shall and savings appoint the members of county assembly service board under sections 12(3)(b), (c) and (d) within thirty days after the commencement of this Act. (2) Upon the commencement of this Act and before the first general elections held after the coming into force of this Act, a person, who immediately before the commencement of this Act served as a member of a county assembly services board appointed under section 12 (3)(d) of the County Governments Act in force before the commencement of this Act, shall continue to serve as a member of the Board, as one of the persons appointed under section 12 (3)(d).

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Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the First Schedule to the Bill be amended in paragraph 1 by inserting the words “under section 12(3)(d) of the County Governments Act” immediately after the words “in the membership of the Board”.

The division will be at the end.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the Second Schedule to the Bill be amended - (a) by deleting paragraph 8; and (b) in paragraph 9 by deleting the expression “Subject to any regulations made under paragraph 7” appearing at the beginning of the paragraph.

( Question of the amendment proposed )

The division will be at the end.

( Question, that the Third Schedule

We will defer the division and go to the second Bill.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 6— Vacancy. 6A. (1) The office of a member of the Selection Committee nominated under section 6(d) shall become vacant if the member-

(a) is adjudged bankrupt;

(b) is convicted of a criminal offence and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than six months;

(c) is convicted of an offence involving fraud or dishonesty;

(d) is absent, without reasonable cause, from three consecutive meetings of the Selection Committee;

(e) resigns in writing addressed to the Governor;

(f) is removed from office by the Governor for –

(i) being unable to perform the functions of his office by reason of mental or physical infirmity; or

(ii) failing to declare his interest in any matter being considered or to be considered by the Selection Committee; or The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. Sang)

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 8—

Conflict of 8A. (1) If any person has a personal or fiduciary Interest interest in matter any matter before the Selection Committee, and is present at a meeting of the Selection Committee at which any matter is the subject of consideration, that person shall as soon as is practicable after the commencement of the meeting, declare such interest and shall not take part in any consideration or discussion of, or vote on any question touching such matter.

(2) A disclosure of interest made under subsection (1) shall be recorded in the minutes of the meeting at which it is made.

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(Sen. Sang)

(Sen. Sang)

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.39, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress to the Senate on its consideration of the County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No.27 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again.

seconded.

Before we proceed to report progress, let us move to the next one.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress on its consideration of the County Hall of Fame Bill (Senate Bill No.33 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again.

seconded.

Sen. Sang): Order Senators. Proceed, Chairperson.

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(Sen. Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 27 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said Report.

seconded.

(Sen. Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the County Hall of Fame Bill (Senate Bill No. 33 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said Report.

seconded.

Hon. Senators, we have completed today’s business and it is now time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 5th May, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 8.00 p.m.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.