What is it, Sen. Njoroge?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a Statement from the `Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Land and Natural Resources regarding the ongoing Northern Water Collector Tunnel Project which is intended to provide reliable water supply to Nairobi City County and its environs. In the Statements, the chairperson should explain; (a) when this project was launched; (b) findings that led to the initial rejection of the project by leaders in Murang’a County; (c) what informed the Government to proceed with the project despite opposition by various sectors; (d) whether an Environment Impact Assessment was undertaken before commencement of the project and contents of the report made public; (e) whether the project will adversely affect the environment as feared by those opposing it. Thank you.

Sen. Khaniri!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is a very topical and touchy issue in the Republic at the moment. I will consult with the Ministry and see if we can issue a Statement in two weeks’ time.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As admitted by the Vice Chairperson of the Committee, this is a very important matter of grave national The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, noting that we will be going for a recess very soon, I request that this matter be responded to within one week’s time. The matter has to do with water, which is life, and it is raising a lot of issues. The Chairman is just a walking distance to the Minister’s Office.

Order! Put the request and do not go for the mechanics. Let us hear from Sen. Wetangula before the Vice-Chairperson responds.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, alongside the very good Statement sought by Sen. Njoroge, the Vice-Chairperson in so doing, should tell the House and the country how many mega dam projects are being undertaken in this country and at what cost. There is general talk that exaggerated figures are being put on dams. One just blocks a river and gets a reservoir behind it and we are told it costs Kshs10 billion to Kshs20 billion. We would like to know how many dams are being constructed, at what cost and in which parts of the country.

Vice-Chairperson!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had requested for two weeks so that I can come up with a comprehensive Statement. The issue of the House going on recess is a subject of debate. I do not want to anticipate debate. For us to give a comprehensive answer, we will need two weeks to liaise with the Ministry and the relevant Government authorities. I agree that this is a very grave matter that requires very urgent attention. I personally may not agree with the Government’s position. However, I will come here to give the Government’s position nevertheless. I will not come to give my personal position. We will get the position from the Government and present it to this House as given.

Order, Vice-Chairperson! You have done so well to challenge the argument of anticipating debate, then you went ahead to anticipate the answer. You can only make that Statement when you have the answer.

Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It sounds amusing. However, I am concerned that the Vice-Chairperson says that he might not agree with the Government’s position, but all the same, he will attempt to give an answer. In the record of political parties, there is an entry that Sen. Khaniri has since dropped membership to any party in this country. Is he still a Member of the Alliance that recommended him to become a member of a Committee and subsequently become a Vice-Chairperson? Could the Speaker guide us since the communication originated from the Office of the Speaker? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Members! That is a straight forward matter. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Khaniri, just relax. I am particularly pleased that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is addressing that matter to Sen. Khaniri who is well versed with the Standing Orders. That issue is completely irrelevant to the matter before us. Our Standing Orders, in theory and in practice, allow Members of what the Minority Leader would call the Alternative Government, to be chairpersons of committees. You have been enjoying that privilege. I do not know why you are now running away from it. Therefore, the vice-chairperson will respond in two weeks’ time. Let us move to Statements to be issued. Before we do so, I have a Communication to make.

Order, Members. I have a communication to make on the visiting delegation of Women Parliamentarians from the Parliament South Sudan. Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of the visiting delegation of Women Parliamentarians from the Legislative Assembly of South Sudan. The delegation is in the country for an exposure visit to learn and share the experiences and broaden its understanding and knowledge on the workings of our Parliament. They have been here since Monday, 10th October, 2016, and will depart on Thursday, 13th October, 2016. I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the great Senate tradition. The Members of the delegation are as follows:- The Hon. Betty Achan, MP - National Legislative Assembly and Leader of the Delegation Ambassador Michael Nyang, MP - Ministry of Foreign Affairs The Hon. Mary Puru, MP - National Legislative Assembly The Hon. Alma Abuoch Jervas, MP - National Legislative Assembly The Hon. Lith Aluong, Mp - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Nyanchiek Nhial, MP - National Legislative Assembly The Hon. Hannah Lona, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Athiak Rou Rachel, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Suzan Paite, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Mary Elias MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Florence Abina, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Florence Nighty, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Flora Iliha, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Ajoh Gordon Kuol, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Adriana Ali, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Mary Hadia, MP - State Legislative Assembly The Hon. Joyce Hadia, MP - State Legislative Assembly The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the delegation of Women parliamentarians from the Parliament of South Sudan. We have been very privileged, as the Kenya Women Parliamentarians, to host them in this Parliament. Yesterday, we hosted them for dinner. They have just come from meeting the National Gender and Equality Commission (NGEC) and they have also visited many other organisations in this country. It is my hope that the delegation will come out better after learning the best practices that we will portray to them as Kenyan women. I hope they will become better legislators as we also learn from them. I welcome them and hope that they will take our greetings to the Parliament of South Sudan. I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in extending a warm welcome to the Parliamentarians from South Sudan. We are very concerned regarding what we have been reading in the newspapers taking place in their country and we pray for them. There is a saying that the pain a mother feels over her child, whether a girl or a boy, is heavy. Since they are here on behalf of the mothers of South Sudan, we will ask them to do all they can in their Parliament. They should talk to their leaders. The joy they acquired recently when they became a new Republic should be the standard measure and Kenya has continued to stand with them. We are their neighbours in---

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, it is not a debate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish them well.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a pleasure to see, in the Speaker’s Gallery, eminent ladies from South Sudan. May I request them to convey my greetings to Hon. Kong who was the first Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee in the National Legislative Assembly of South Sudan, and I was privileged to train them. I hope that normalcy will be restored in the Republic of South Sudan. We have played a big role as good neighbours and brothers to make sure that the country stabilizes. My brother died in Juba just three months ago. He was there to train the people on military intelligence. Thank you very much, you are welcome.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this chance. I take this opportunity to welcome the distinguished ladies from our neighbouring country. I laud their effort because they have appreciated that as a country, we are their big brother and they came here because they admire us. We hope that they will learn from the many good qualities and good things happening in this country. I want to encourage them that when women rise up for a cause, they deliver. As a House, we want to assure them that the little turbulence that has hit the great nation of South Sudan will be over soon and that is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Senator, please conclude.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is enough. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you at long last. I thought being senior, I should have been the one to start.

Order! Senator. I definitely appreciate seniority and I acknowledge you but there are also procedures in which you catch the Speaker’s attention and seniority is not one of them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been doing without my proper card for nearly four months. I am almost becoming a stranger in the House. Anyway, allow me to join you in welcoming my sisters from South Sudan and I commend them. I would like to tell them that a woman is a pillar of a home and the country. We will rely on them to make South Sudan a peaceful country and a good neighbour, so that all of us can enjoy the fruits of our hard work as the women of Africa. I congratulate and welcome them. They should enjoy staying in Nairobi and learn as much as they can from us because Kenyan women have supported South Sudan for a long time especially on issues of women caucuses. We wish them well and they should take our greetings home when they go back to South Sudan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you and other colleagues in welcoming the distinguished delegation from South Sudan. Like my colleagues have said, Kenya played a critical role in hosting and championing the process of bringing peace between South Sudan and the Republic of Sudan which led to independence. As we do so, it is our wish that normalcy, peace and tranquility are restored in the Republic of South Sudan through magnanimous and selfless conduct of the leaders of that country, particularly President Salva Kiir Mayardit and Dr. Riek Machar. As an incoming president of this country, I want to assure the Sudanese compatriots that I will do everything humanly possible to assist them achieve a sustainable peace in their country.

For a moment, I wondered whether the Senate Minority Leader was reporting his days as the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to add my voice to what my fellow Senators have said in welcoming MPs from South Sudan. I am happy to see quite a number of women parliamentarians. We all know that women are peacemakers. I hope they will embrace peace building in their country. I wish them well and request them to pass our greetings when they go back home.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join you and my colleagues in welcoming the gracious ladies from the Republic of South Sudan to the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. My colleagues have already alluded to it that South Sudan is our younger brother. We midwifed the birth of that Republic. As an old brother, we want to see them do well. We want to see a peaceful South Sudan. We want reason to prevail among leaders to ensure that the people of South Sudan enjoy the independence they fought for with their sweat and blood. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

We shall have the last two interventions from Sen. Leshore and then Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to join you and my other colleagues in appreciating colleagues from South Sudan who have come here to learn the best practices we have in our Senate and our country. Peace has been very elusive in South Sudan. I would like to urge them not only to allow those occupying senior position to carry the cross of peace but they should all come together and guarantee peace in South Sudan. One of my family members is entrenched in peace building in South Sudan. I would like them to work with all Kenyans and take them as their brothers because we would like to see peace prevailing in South Sudan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, through you, I am representing the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) in presentation of a paper on how women can participate in elections, free from violence and intimidation. As a special rapporteur on behalf of the Kenya Senate, I will seek to know whether we can have a resolution passed in Geneva on the situation in South Sudan because the IPU where you occupy a privileged position can intervene in the crisis in South Sudan. As we welcome them, I hope that one of our deliberations is how we can help the women and children who are the victims of violence of war to benefit from the strong IPU Parliament that will meet in Geneva. Thank you.

Granted. The Deputy Majority Leader has stepped in. Let us give him the last bite on the cherry. Proceed, Sen. Murkomen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have been listening to the debate and I want to welcome the leaders from South Sudan who are our neighbors. The South Sudanese are our brothers and sisters. I was a lecturer before I came here and a number of my students were from South Sudan. The relationship between us and South Sudan is tight but I am told that the Parliament of South Sudan borrowed the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) concept from us. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I welcome them, I also recognize the fact that they are women. It is important a young nation like South Sudan started by recognizing the importance of all actors in the society and the participation of women leadership. I say this because it also seems to be the season of women leadership in the world. You have seen the Prime Minister of Britain, the Prime Minister of Croatia, the President of Argentina and Brazil, and I have no doubt in my mind that the next President of the United States of America will be a woman. So, I believe women leaders will take this moment including those sitting here from South Sudan to provide the right leadership and use the soft power that comes with motherhood in dealing with the issues of conflict in our country and South Sudan. We do not want to see South Sudan continue in the situation it is. We believe we will continue The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Listening to the Deputy Majority Leader, you wonder whether challenges are supposed to be in vain or for--- let me not conclude. Before I invite the Chairperson of National Security and Foreign Relations, I have a communication to make. VISITING DELEGATION OF STUDENTS AND TEACHERS FROM MOI AIRBASE PRIMARY SCHOOL Hon. Members, let me recognize the presence of visiting students and teachers who are seated at the public gallery from Moi Airbase Primary School, Nairobi County. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors, I wish to extend a warm welcome to them too. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf wish them a fruitful visit. I thank you. Proceed, Chairperson of National Security and Foreign Relations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As you ruled yesterday, I will go straight to the answer and I believe my colleagues who had requested for information on this have gone through the statement. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government is not aware that five children aged between eight and sixteen years have disappeared in Chesuwe village, Nandi Hills Sub-County, Nandi County, since 5th July, 2016. However, the Government is aware that two cases of disappearance of children were reported at Kapsabet Police Station via O/B No. 50/1st July, 2016 and O/B No. 25/18th July, 2016. Following the reports, the Government security agencies, with the support of the community members managed to recover two mutilated bodies from the bush; one on 7th July, 2016 and the other on 10th July, 2016. Investigations were launched immediately and one suspect; Newton Kipleting was later arrested in connection with the abduction and murder of the two children. Investigations are ongoing to establish whether he is the syndicate behind the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank the Vice- Chairperson of the Committee for submitting this particular response. However, I want to be on record as having said that it is unfortunate that it had to take the Ministry of Interior and National Coordination a whole four months to respond to an issue of this magnitude. I also want to confirm that out of the five children who were reported missing, three children have been found. I, therefore, agree with the statement to that extent. However, I want to seek clarification with regard to the suspect. The responsibility of a Government is to protect its citizens and more specifically children. I want the Vice-Chairperson to indicate to us whether the suspect, known as Newton Kipleting, who was arrested, has been charged and whether he has been released on bail or not. We should be told the status of the case. The two families that lost their children are barely surviving in terms of their economic status. It is wrong for the Government to say they do not have a vote to cater for the burial yet it is its responsibility to provide security. In this case, the Government failed to provide the security and we ended up with children being kidnapped and killed. The families are not asking for compensation. They are asking for support to bury these children. I am aware of one situation in this particular case where the family had to postpone the burial for three days.The body of the young child had already decomposed when it was being buried yet the Government has the audacity to say they do not have a vote. This Government has resources. Why is it that they cannot provide resources to support families, especially in situations where they failed to carry out their responsibility? The other clarification is with regard to the disappearances of persons. They may not be students, but the Vice-Chairperson needs to know that even masters’ students who might be well over 40 years old are still students. Therefore, the indication that 40 year old might not reflect a student is not right because that could still be a student. This country is treading on a dangerous path when we make it look normal that 11 people disappeared in Tana River County and 12 people disappeared from Kakamega County. Who killed these people? We need to know if they were killed. Who is responsible for providing security? It is the Government. Could they give us more detail on this?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is very disheartening to me, on behalf of the parents whose children got lost in Kakamega, for the Vice-Chairperson to tell us that the Government is not aware. Before I raised this matter, I was aware that for every disappearance, the parents went to the Assistant Chief, the Chief, the District Officer and the District Commissioner; they reported the missing children and gave details. In this list, we have the latest who is Biko Mukabwa the son of Benard Likhanga from Museno Sub-Location of Khayega Location in Shinyalu. I am aware of this because I took part in the reporting. Could it be that in the system of the Government, members of the public can report on a matter and Nairobi is not given the information when it asks for it? That The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Vice-Chairperson tell us whether the police force in this country is properly trained on crime scene preservation, protection and analysis? Why is it that all bodies collected from such places like Tana River are just collected and that is the end of the case? Have police turned to be corpse collectors and nothing else?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On Sen. Sang’s question, I have no information whether the suspect was released on bond or not. The information I have is that he was arrested. It is something I need to, probably, clarify from the relevant police station through the police department. He also raised the issue of supporting the family in burying the deceased. Of course, as I said yesterday, we do not have a budget in support of burials for the relevant Government departments and the counties. However, if the family was aware of this, they would have gone to the county government for support and I believe that should have been granted. On the issue of the masters’ students being 41 or 42 years old, this was in relation to the question that was asked by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The answer is directed to whether they were students or not. I believe in that answer, there was only one student. Another question was; if the security agencies are aiding in disappearance of children to Somalia. It is untrue and totally wrong to say that police officers are aiding and abetting disappearance of youths into Somalia. The other issue is why Shinyalu is targeted. We need to investigate this.

What is it, Sen. Njoroge?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Vice Chairperson to purport to be speaking on behalf of the police? That is a serious issue. She needs to inquire from the office of the Inspector General of Police whether they are doing it or not. She is a Member of the Senate. I do not think she qualifies to give that direct answer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a portfolio to represent the Government. The information I have read in the statement clearly says that if any police officer is involved The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, hon. Senators. Both of you are wrong. The Chairperson does not represent the Government. You only represent the Government statement. You are not in Government. Sen. Njoroge, you cannot also say that the Chairperson of a Committee cannot be competent to address herself on a matter. By virtue of oversighting that docket, she acquires sufficient capacity, competencies and knowledge to pronounce herself on that matter. Proceed, Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the clarification. The other issue that was raised is that senior police officers undergoing vetting are behind the disappearance. I am not aware of it. However, I can bring it to the attention of the police service to carry out an investigation. The next issue is on preservation of crime scenes. As much as I know, the police officers are trained in that field. Their work is not only to carry corpses. I believe that they are supposed to take care of the crime scene whenever such issues occur.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Categorically, the Chairperson is denying the possibility of the existence of a cartel within the forces that is aiding children to end up in Somalia. In view of the fact that Mr. Boniface Luvembe from Shinyalu ended up being arrested by the African Union Mission in Somalia (AMISOM) in Somalia and in view of the fact that Mr. Biko Mukabwa, who is not on this list rang the father and said, “Dad, I want to come home.” In view of the fact that in Kapenguria, a police officer, two months ago, killed fellow officers on duty at the desk until he was disarmed and killed after a very big fight, could the Chairman undertake to do further inquiries so that she can come with a more solid answer? The facts I have stated are flying right into the face of your answer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have the information that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is trying to get from me. If a child has called from Somalia saying that he wants to come back home, that does not implicate a police officer. Even from Isiolo there are such children who have called their parents and said that they want to come back home or they are luring other children to join them. That is not the work of the police. If there is evidence against any police officer, can that be brought to the attention of the police and the Government? Action will be taken immediately against that officer.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is also good to accept certain things. When you spoke I was almost persuaded until the gracious lady came back to you. I wondered; the facts were flying on whose face? Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your indulgence. I am afraid that I could be right because on these very children, reports have been made by their parents at the office of the assistant chief, the chief, the assistant county The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Proceed, Chairperson. That is a fair question.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I still deny that this is the work of the police. If Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale believes or maybe there is a record at Kakamega Police Station on the report of those parents, that can be given to me or brought to the headquarters for further investigation then we can verify the information he has given us.

Order, Senator! Order, Chairperson! The work of a people’s representative is not to do police work. I will not allow this House to be one more opportunity for the police to abscond their responsibility. I agree completely with you and I am convinced that the presence of certain youth from Kenya in Somalia does not imply complicity by the police. There are many ways in which people travel. The question is, if you can deny unconvincingly that the police are not involved, then, who is involved? That is the statement you need to interrogate further on your own motion. What Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has given is on the HANSARD. Use that information. This House will not be used to do police work. Let the police do their work. Ours is to interrogate the output.

What is it, Sen. Murkomen?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, am I in order if I become of help to the Chairperson? If the question is not within the police service, it could be within the defence department. If it is not within the defence department, it is in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. All of them fall within the same Committee. The Chairperson can go to the Diaspora Desk at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the Ministry of Defence and find out exactly what the situation is. What Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised is of great concern. Some of the students whom we taught in the past, a law student from Moi University was part of those who were accused of having participated in the Garissa attack. I have information that a few other universities have law students who have been traced to Somalia. It is still of great interest to this House that this information is dealt with. This Committee has consolidated its responsibilities around the same issue in different departments of the Government.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that you direct the Chairperson to provide information on the status of the case within two days since already the Vice Chairperson has the answer. More importantly, the said person, suspect Newton Kipleting is known in the community as a repeat offender. What Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale said initially becomes relevant in this case. It is possible that the public is apprehending criminals and forwarding them to the police who book them in. However, when you go to the details within the police stations, you do not have records of the same. This is something that happened in Mosoriot, Nandi County, where members of the public arrested suspected criminals, they were booked but in the night, we are told that they broke out through the roof of the cell and disappeared. Up to now, that information has never been provided to the public. I think that the Chairperson can confirm that every record of crime presented by the public to the police station is recorded and kept so that when the public indicate that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will act on that as quickly as possible.

Order, Madam Vice Chairperson! What will you act on? You have been asked the status of the case in two days. Are you acting in two days? You were asked about the records being submitted.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not able to submit the response in two days. We request for a week.

Madam Vice Chairperson, you can read the mood of the House. This is one issue where the entire membership across the political divide is united and not just for the sake of unity. It is because it is a very important issue affecting the lives of Kenyans. The Government has one responsibility. In fact, all the others are extras. If there is one basic responsibility, it is to protect lives and particularly that of vulnerable people like children. Madam Vice Chairperson, I think it is in that light that the House expects much more from your docket. So, I will give you up to Tuesday next week to come up with an appropriate response taking into account all the issues that have been raised.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, obliged.

I hope you are not intimidated by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Shall we move to Statement (b)? STATUS OF STREET FAMILIES AND URCHINS IN KENYA The Member is not here.

Let us move to Statement (c) KENYA’S COMPLIANCE WITH THE EU DEADLINE FOR EPA PROGRAMMES The Member is not here.

Finally, Statement (d). PREPARATIONS FOR PLANTING SEASON DURING THE SHORT RAINS

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that this Statement has not come to this house. It was requested a while ago by Sen. Leshore. The confusion that came in is that we had asked this question from the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare who in turn directed us to the Ministry of Devolution and Planning. So, we have had to do it twice. We are still waiting for it. I just spoke to them before we came to the Chamber and we hope to have the answer next week.

Tuesday next week.

KENYA’S COMPLIANCE WITH THE EU DEADLINE FOR EPA PROGRAMMES Do we have the Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget? This one should appear in the Order Paper tomorrow.

PREPARATIONS FOR PLANTING SEASON DURING THE SHORT RAINS Any Member of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries? This Statement is dropped.

Sen. Khaniri, you were to seek a statement. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE BANKING AMENDMENT ACT, 2016

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity. Pursuant to our Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget concerning the implementation of the Banking (Amendment) Act 2016. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain:- (1) the extent of the implementation of the Act signed into law by the President on 24th August, 2016, especially for customers with existing loans; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Where is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget?

.: Mr. Speaker, Sir, give us seven days although the question on certain banks is not clear. Maybe the question should have been which banks have complied. “Certain banks” is ambiguous. I do not know whether anybody would know which banks they are unless they are specified.

You can clarify that with the Member. It is a moot point. Please, respond next Wednesday.

I have not seen anyone willing to do so.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for indulging me. When this particular law was passed, Kenyans everywhere looked forward to enjoying lower interest rates. I just want to know if the CBK has the capacity to supervise banks and ensure that, indeed, relief is provided; first in respect of those who have existing loans and secondly, to customers who are seeking new facilities in those banks. Does the CBK have the capacity to ensure that these benefits are passed down to customers?

Next Order.

Next, Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No. 28(4), the Senate resolves to alter its calendar in respect of Part III of the Fourth Session so that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, the Senate Deputy Majority Leader. Look at the Motion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Motion is critical. If you see where I am coming from, it is critical in so far as the extension of this week.

Your argument is not promoting the Motion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will come to the reason why I am setting the stage why this House must extend for another one week to deal with certain legislations. In those two weeks, I request the Members to focus in the next eight to nine months in the counties. We are here to exchange ideas and best practices. For the last two or three weeks, every visit and barazas that I have had in my county my responsibility has been to ask---

Order Senator. I do not want to take it away. You know another opportunity will come for an Adjournment Motion. Then, you can exchange those ideas with your colleagues as they go home. For now, you are asking them to remain.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That will be next week. There is a slight and important point I wish to conclude. Every time we are in our counties, you hear governors and Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) telling Senators - this is important for County Public Accounts Committee - that the money received from the national Government is little. They say most these amounts go to recurrent expenditure. However, when you go to any ward in Kisii, Busia or Lelmok Ward in Nandi County, the question is that the money received in the county has been spent on recurrent expenditure; who is consuming this recurrent expenditure? How many people have been employed in the ward that is part and parcel of the expenditure referred to in the recurrent expenditure? There is none. The people say that nobody has been employed in the ward to serve in the county government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this recurrent expenditure that is a basis of complaints by governors must be demonstrated by indicating the citizens of the ward that are part and parcel of the recurrent expenditure enjoyed by the county staff.

We cannot just sit and accept that there is a lot of recurrent expenditure. We must go to our villages and ask them who the people enjoying the recurrent expenditure from their village are. We have a role as the Senate in this last year to organise barazas in our wards. Let us forget about the harambes, church visits and funeral politics. The next stage of oversight by Senators will be to organise barazas to find out the expenditures. In The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order, Sen. Murkomen! I hear and appreciate you!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order! You are completely out of order, Sen. Boy Juma Boy! This is a fairly straight forward matter. Try to conclude, the Senate Deputy Majority Leader.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senate Deputy Majority Leader leads the business of the Jubilee Government in this House. What Jubilee is only clear about, especially in Nyanza, Ukambani, Coast and Western regions is that to get development you must go to Jubilee. Could he substantiate what has changed? You have indicated that in Embobut Ward, people are suffering and they are in Jubilee. In the next ward, people are suffering and they are in Jubilee. A clergy man said that women and children are sleeping in caves with snakes in your sub-county of Markwet and yet they are in Jubilee. Has Jubilee changed its policy that---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I did not hear the Senate Deputy Majority Leader talk about the political divide. He talked about governors and accountability for the money that you allocate to counties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a matter of fact, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was doing very well and has been doing very well for the last three years, focusing on our responsibility as stated in Article (96) which is to oversight county governments. When we carry out that responsibility there is no Jubilee or CORD. If I was to digress to national Government, accountability has been the bedrock of the arguments that the President has been putting across, but that is not where I want to go. I want to urge the Senators that to avoid this imagination that if a governor is from CORD, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should not challenge that governor because he is from CORD---. Nevertheless, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has been asking questions of accountability in Kakamega despite the fact that they come from the same political persuasion with the governor. So, let us remain focused so that the National Assembly, whose primary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was wondering at some point why the Senate Deputy Majority Leader is arguing the opposite because he almost made a case on why we should not go on recess.

He made a passionate appeal why we should actually work tirelessly and not go on leave. However, in support of this Motion, although Sen. Murkomen has made a passionate plea for barazas, I am wondering whether there is something he knows that we do not know; something that is supposed to facilitate these barazas . Otherwise, the one week he is talking about I was expecting something miraculous will happen, but nothing has happened so far. Although Sen. Murkomen---

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to support. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

You are a good lawyer and I suppose you know your role in this business is to second.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my work is to second. We should introduce something called seconding by protest where I make comments without prejudice to the protest.

That is why I said I should have been given a leeway to protest without prejudice. Sen. Murkomen, in his comments, said that we have just resumed. Let me get to my point. It is important that--- some of the work that is pending is at the County Public Accounts Committee and Investment Committee (CPAIC). Today, I found the county officials of Taita Taveta in the parking lot with a heap load of paper. Governor Lusaka was at our Committee today answering questions. This one week is going to increase and should increase the mileage and, therefore, considering what we have been doing in the last one week, I support it entirely. I hope once we come back, the Senate Deputy Majority Leader is going to come to this Senate with good news. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has asked him a question and he has not answered. At some point, he looked like he has turned from Saul to Paul in the road to Damascus and he has now seen the light and has joined us in asking what the governors have been doing for the last four years.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is the most erratic Seconder I have ever got.

He cannot abuse the privilege I gave him to second this Motion to attack me. Be it as it may, I have remained consistent. The country and people in my county know that I have remained consistent in calling for oversight of county resources. In fact, from 2013 to 2014, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki and I were being branded persons who want to kill devolution in this country. We were the first people who kept arguing that we need accountability. I remember so well even in functions where I could meet opposition leaders saying that this call for accountability is just a way of killing devolution. There is no argument that I have changed my mind because my colleagues have now joined us. Accountability is the main game across the country. So, I want to remind my colleague in the right context that on matters of accountability in the counties, I am on record in the public and in the HANSARD of this Senate that we must do our job. When it comes to national Government, it is not our primary mandate, it is our secondary mandate. However, our primary mandate is under Article (96); to oversight county governments.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Since our Standing Orders may not have guidance on what I am just about to ask, I will need your guidance. What would this House do if a Mover finds his seconder erratic and feels that he is not only hostile but also not worth the appointment to the duty? He may wish to withdraw the seconder and appoint another one. We need your direction on this. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Order! Seconder, conclude in the normal way; it will help me dispose the issue raised by Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I made my comments without prejudice to the seconding, which is allowed. Those comments are without prejudice. I second the Motion that we alter our calendar, with my comments which in no way contradict the Motion and the person who moved it, who is my colleague and my learned friend.

Order, Members. Before I propose the question, this was a bit unusual, but that is why we are a Parliament. Our business is not to deal with monotonous, dull and bureaucratic business. Our business is always to chart new paths and grounds. You are all aware that you can amend a Motion without altering the substance of the Motion. All that the seconder did was in pursuit of what the other Members had raised, including the Senator for Kakamega County. He just put it in the Biblical expression of “the road to Damascus”, and whether Sen. Murkomen’s Damascus point had been reached. Sen. Murkomen just confirmed that there was no new Damascus for him; he has always been there. If anything, it is the other side that might have found their Damascus after him. That does not take away the fact that the seconder finally concluded that he supports the Motion. The seconder also said that he was making the remarks without prejudice. That already clarifies the whole business. Initially, my problem was with the Mover because he kept on shopping for support by using Kakamega County and when the Senator for Mombasa came in, he turned to him. I was wondering why he was not referring to Makueni County, only to find that the Senator was the seconder.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion to alter the Senate calendar. I support that we go on with the business of the House for one more week. I must commend the Mover and the Seconder for the spirit in which they moved this Motion and the compliments they have made regarding our Committee; the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee, a Committee that never went on recess. We have been moving on full blast on a daily basis - Monday to Friday quite often - mainly to ensure that the audited accounts of the Financial Year 2013/2014 of both the county executives and county assemblies are finished. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are looking forward to the Auditor-General tabling in this House the audited accounts for the Financial Year 2014/2015. We are surprised because by law they should have already been here, but they are not yet here. I am politely reminding your office and that of the Clerk that may be, the Auditor-General is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, by the end of the current Session, this House will have voted for close to Kshs1 trillion to be allocated to the counties. This has never happened before and this is the kind of money that should change the lives of Kenya. However, as Senators, we have watched in disbelief as counties become citadels of corruption. The monies that we are giving out to counties are not reflected in the lives of the citizens of our country. I thank and congratulate the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC), chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o, for doing a commendable job in tracing and asking serious questions on how this money is being used in the countryside. Through this Committee, we know that the Senate is doing a good job by following up on the amounts that have been sent to the counties. However, unless this Committee and this House are assisted by other institutions of Government, the monies that we are allocating to counties in the hope that they will help the communities will be in vain. I single out the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) that was established in this country with great hope that it would rein in some of the activities that have resulted in major losses of funds in this country. To date, there is nobody from the counties that has been nabbed and held to account for the enormous monies that have been revealed by the CPAIC as having been misused and wasted. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose this Motion. Since we have just resumed from recess, I do not see the reason we need to adjourn on 19th October. We have so many issues that Senators are putting across that we need to tackle. It will be important that we spend these two months---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Murkomen?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. My younger sister, Sen. Daisy Kanainza, may not have understood this Motion. She thinks that we are going on recess, but on the contrary, we are postponing recess.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Whereas I accept your interpretation, I would rather give her time to push her point.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for protecting me. I have read the Motion and it is clear that we are supposed to postpone our recess from 14th to 19th October, 2016. Considering what my colleagues have said, we have a lot to deal with as the Senate. That is why I advise the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy that it is not necessary to go on recess from 19th October to 1st November, 2016. We better stay---

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! You are out of order! I would not want to invoke Standing Order No.109, which talks of irrelevance. Can you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion with an amendment. As we get close to 19th October, I will draft a Motion to say that we do not need this recess. In the meantime, I support.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): That is another slur because the Motion for Adjournment is always from the Senate Majority Leader; you have no mandate to draft that kind of Motion.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. My colleague will have an opportunity next week, when the Motion for adjournment will come up, to oppose or support it.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are also out of order! You are anticipating debate. Sen. Hassan Abdirahman!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion. I have a few comments to make. First, if I heard the Mover right, he said that the Opposition did not support devolution. If I did not get him right, I stand to be corrected.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Murkomen?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I said is that there was a time we clashed with the Leader of the Opposition who was Former Prime Minister, Hon. Raila Odinga, in public over my stand on accountability. He interpreted it to mean that fighting for accountability in the counties was fighting counties. I was trying to use that position to remind my colleague, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., that my stand on accountability has been the same from the time we came to Senate.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): In any case, whatever your view may be before or after the Constitution was promulgated, you are compelled and you have no otherwise. The Constitution provides for devolution. So, you do not have to revisit your stand.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, those are still his personal views and he can hold them but I want to confirm we all support devolution. I join my colleagues in thanking the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) of the Senate for the good work they do. In fact, many a time, people say that the Senate does not have power but it has a lot of power. In fact, it has shown that we can assert our authority, effort or functions very clearly through our committees if we work very effectively. So, I would like to thank them for the good work they have done. At some point, I personally attended one of their sittings when they were interrogating officials from Wajir County Government and I honestly felt they are doing a good job. However, that may not make much meaning if the Auditor-General’s report becomes a routine inspection done year in, year out because that does not help. The reason for doing audits may not necessarily be improving financial systems. We must hold accountable those who flout financial regulations. State agencies like the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC), the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and other organs of Government must act on culprits who have either wasted The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. This is the Senate and in the last six or so months, we have been seriously engaged on issues that fall within our mandate. The reorganisation by the Senate Majority Leader, as proposed in this Motion, will ensure that we are able to carry out our responsibility. I agree with the concerns that have been raised. However, as the protectors of devolution, this moment is very critical especially as we proceed towards the elections. One of the things that I am sure will be happening in each and every county in this country is that every leader will be called to account on the delivery of their mandate. As a Senate, we will be called to account on what we have done. Therefore, the committees that are particularly tied with the responsibility of ensuring that this Senate carries out its responsibility should help this Senate in carrying out that mandate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I must join my colleagues in lauding the work being done by the Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o led Committee. However, the problem is that the Committee is still handling reports of 2013/2014. One is left wondering at what point we will get to 2014/2015, 2015/2016 and 2016/2017. Is the pace at which we are carrying out our responsibilities in various committees slow? We must be alive to the fact that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will be very brief. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Mover, Sen. Murkomen, who is the Deputy Majority Leader for moving this Motion. In support of the Motion, allow me to say a couple of things; one, this Motion has not been brought by the Leader of Majority in terms of the dates. It has also not been recommended by the Senate Business Committee (SBC) in terms of the dates. These dates were agreed at the beginning of this Session. In February, when we resumed, we adopted the yearly calendar. That calendar provided that this week, we should proceed on a 10 days recess. But because we had interfered with the August recess because of the several special sittings we had, we ended up pushing the August recess by a week. We thought it wise that we need to be around this week also so that we compensate for that one week that was affected. So, in essence, there has been no alteration whatsoever. The calendar in terms of the balance between recess and the days when we should be sitting has not been affected. The totality of that balance has been maintained. Should this Motion go through and we proceed on recess on 19th October, 2016, we are expected to resume on 1st November, 2016. We will only have one month up to 2nd December, 2016, to wind up the business for the fourth session. I want to plead with all of us that we must maximize on the last month when we come back. My plea has been that since we have done quite a bit of Bills and Motions, the aspect of oversight which Sen. Sang has already mentioned is an issue which we can do something about before the close of this Session, especially in consideration of the Auditor-General’s reports by the Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and now the Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’- Nyong’o led Committee. I have already taken this before the House Business Committee (HBC). This is an area where we need to do something and I hope we can prioritize that. The HBC should provide that guidance so that we do not end our term without tackling one financial year. Part of the problem is not really the Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC).They are trying their best.They have meetings almost daily. The information is out there and we commend them because it is not easy to have Committee meetings almost daily for more than one month. The Auditor-General of the Republic of Kenya is part of the problem. As much as we are putting pressure on the CPAIC to deliver the report for the subsequent years, it is a pity the Auditor-General has not submitted those reports. I am tempted to believe and I have very good reasons to believe so, the Auditor- General of this country is in violation of the Constitution which is ground for removal from office of a public officer in that office. We, therefore, need to put pressure and this House must exert pressure in consultation with the other House. As Parliament, we must put pressure on the Auditor- General of this country to give us the reports so that the Committee and this House can process those reports. However, it is important to note that we are still too far with the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Mover of the Motion correctly put emphasis on our oversight role as enshrined in Article 96 of the Constitution. It states that we oversight the national revenue allocated to the counties. This is a very important role of the Senate. The Senate would have succeeded in this role if we ensured that corruption at the national level is not devolved to the county level. Owing to the transitional problems that we have had, the institutions which deal with this matter have had problems. The Senate and the Judiciary have had problems. The seed of corruption has been planted in the counties. It is about to sprout. We would have succeeded as Senate if in the remaining term of our tenure, we ensure that whatever has sprouted or is about to develop roots is uprooted. I say so because it has been proved that corruption in this country is normally at its highest levels when we are approaching elections. This is evident from Independence to date. Whenever we approach elections, the levels of corruption go up. We, as the Senate and the oversight body must triple our efforts in the remaining period to ensure that this year is an exception particularly in relation to county governments. I sit in the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC). In a number of counties, the budget allocated to the governor for this year is double or even triple what has been the average allocation to the office of the governor in the previous years. In my county this has happened in spite of me going to the county assembly and addressing them that they must interrogate that particular item before they approve it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, interestingly, when I tried to find out why they approved it, some of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) were very candid. They said that they approved it because they were told by the county government led by the governor that: “Herein lies the money for you to campaign for elections.” So, right from the word “go” the county assembly has gone to bed with the governor because of the impending elections. They are colluding to see how public money can be diverted to private use and interests of the MCAs to be re-elected. They are doing this with impunity. That is why I would urge various institutions concerned with corruption to be alert. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, somebody has talked about the Office of the Auditor-General. I disagree with the Senate Majority Leader that the Auditor-General has strayed and that he must go. My Committee called the Auditor-General and he had his reasons which were valid as to why he is not working up to the optimal level that he would want to work at. One is inadequate staffing. Unfortunately, he cannot rectify that inadequacy not only because of the poor terms of service but because of an amendment that was made in the National Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Wako! May I remind you of Standing Order No.109, which prevents you from discussing irrelevancies? Going to a motion of a Bill that was done yesterday, to me, is a high degree of irrelevancy.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for reminding me. Just to say that I support the Bill and hope the commission will now be able to do its work. For example, particularly in counties which are multi-ethnic or cosmopolitan, some people like governors are now saying: “I come from the biggest ethnic group in this county.” He goes on to tell his people: “We can rule this county forever and ever. At least 30 years and so on,” inciting other ethnic groups that are there. On the other hand, the commission is not doing anything about it. So, as we move towards elections where the temptation for politicians is to try to rely on their supporters who may happen to come from some ethnic group, trying to tell them to come out to vote for them by inciting them, they should know that they are also creating ill-feelings in the other ethnic groups. That is why the powers that we will give NCIC under this Bill will assist this country. Let me also talk on the issue of legislation. As my Vice Chairperson, Sen. Sang, stated, there are so many legislations which we have passed, but are still lying before the National Assembly.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Time is up!

With those few remarks, I support.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Murkomen, remain standing.

I respect the Speaker.

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(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Could you both be seated? The quorum must be maintained all the time. I have this communication to make.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Am I in order, in one minute, to also join you in congratulating and welcoming the delegation?

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are completely in order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you. I congratulate and welcome the students from the KSL, a very important institution in the legal profession. As their senior colleague, I tell them that this is the right place to be, where two senior counsel, Sen. Wako and Sen. Orengo, are seated. I suspect that one or two of them, might have been my students, and one of the clerks seated here was my student. So, I have done a lot of things in this country. Let me just tell them that at their very young age, they have made the right decision to come to the “upper” House – a place of inspiration. In their careers, they need not only serve in the corridors of the courts, but some of them will do public service in political environment, serve as clerks in Parliament and many other positions. In the old days, the legal profession was a place for only litigation and conveyancing. However, there are many areas where lawyers are required to provide legal services across the country. I welcome them and wish them well as they prepare for their bar exams.

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. Let us now continue with the Motion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in supporting this Motion of altering the Calendar of the Senate. This is in respect to Part Three of the Fourth Session which was meant to have a recess from this Friday, 14th October, 2016. We had had a long recess as a result of the many Bills that we were handling from July and our recess was interrupted. This Motion seeks to defer the recess to start a week later; that is from next week, 19th October, 2016 and we resume on 1st November, 2016. As mentioned by most of my The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, did you say the thieves will be happy to see the three of you sitting? What are you saying?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, there are some loud consultations.

Sen. Kivuti and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., your consultations are too loud.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I am saying is that when the cattle rustlers, thieves or murderers see leaders together, they are disarmed by our presence. That alone is sufficient. I have heard for the last two days Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o talking about his presence with Sen. Sang at the boundary of Kisumu and Nandi counties when there was a problem last year. The moment you appear there, they will go talking in low and high tones that they saw their leaders. They will also say that the dispute has become painful that their leaders have left their offices to come to the bush and talk to them. That is what I meant. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is what we require. However, you remember that for a Senator to move from this Chamber to such areas, he must use his personal resources. Suppose you have taken a loan. How will you move from one place to another? This is where we have failed. We have not effected the Constitution properly. We should have had an oversight fund. The manner in which the National Assembly was given more power on Money Bills was not right. We should have been getting our own oversight funds from the funds that we allocate to the counties. We should have taken about two per cent just like the National Government Constituencies Development Fund. That is a percentage of about two point five of the national funds. In our case, it should be money for the county governments. It should also be audited by the Auditor-General because it is not our funds. This is where we would put order on how some of these projects are done. We have come to learn during the sittings with the governors. Some of the projects that are done haphazardly are driven by the desire to get some cut of about 10 or 20 per cent. I do not know how much it has risen to nowadays. When you build things like that, you do not care whether they will be finished or not. You do not care which financial year it will be ended. It may extend from one financial year to another. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some of the Members of the National Assembly have issues because they see the money allocated to the counties and they start listening The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. I rise to support. I do so with a very valid reason in my own considered opinion because the Senate occupies a very important place in the new dispensation of devolved system of government in our country. When the history of how the success or failure, depending on what really happens of devolution, is written, the Senate will occupy a very huge space. So, it is upon us to make sure that when history is written, we shall occupy a place of pride. This is something that we can all be proud of in years ahead if God would have allowed us to live and see. It is important that we consider that the very reason why we were elected into this House is so that in accordance with Article (96) we may be the custodians of devolution. We will determine whether this first phase of devolved government have been a success The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. First, I want to join my colleagues in all that they have said in the last hour or two in support of this Motion, which I also support. What appears necessary at this point in time is to undertake a critique or an audit on the extent to which county governments across the board have been able to realize Article 174 of the Constitution that articulates objects of devolution. I read, re-read and re-emphasize Article 174 because if county governments decided to initiate their programmes to respond to Article 174 of the Constitution, a myriad of the problems that we face today in terms of whether or not devolution is working would not be an issue in the public domain. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the reasons devolution is said to be working might have been articulated, but reasonable as they might be, it is an extreme travesty to the spirit and letter of devolution. Some may say that devolution is working because the governor has drilled a few boreholes or put up a few cabro roads. We have trivialized what devolution was supposed to do. The first object of devolution is to promote democratic and accountable exercise of power. Reflect upon it and show me one county government that has built or is attempting to build a genuine model of democracy. The county assemblies are inept; some are an extension and rubberstamps to the executives. Hardly any of them are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Add him one more minute.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to do the final leg of our political processing. So, I am sure that when that day comes in that last bit, most of you here, I can see Sen. Murkomen are people who are called “home of long distance runners.” You know what you do in the last few meters; you chomoka . You take off. This is now where we have been able to conserve the energy and we must finish at the top. I beg to support.

Very well. I see no other interests to contribute to this Motion. I, therefore, call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have listened to the eloquent contributions which have been made by Senators on the important matter of the role of the Senate on accountability. I have listened to Sen. Hassan profess passionately the importance of participation and mainstreaming proper governance as per Article 174 of the Constitution. What is key is that as a House, we must never forget that the work we are doing is for posterity. It is not for now. Those of us who have come here must leave a footprint. It must be remembered. The reason why we speak on record is because it must be remembered that we had a role and we have played our role. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since Senate came into being, we have played a critical role in various ways in terms of passing legislation and strengthening county assemblies. Our desire to strengthen county assemblies was informed by the jurisprudential aspirations of the Constitution which are basically that county assemblies were going to be oversight entities which were going to act independently of the county executive. Of course, there is a difference between text and the practice. In many of the counties now, Members of the county assemblies are appendages of the executive. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yourself, I and Sen. Hassan are young people. It is frustrating because what we read in law school in the university – incidentally, we are all lawyers – was that classically a constitution as enunciated by Montesquieu is that there will be checks and balances in the arms of government. It was expected that the Executive arm of the Government would be checked by the legislature. What has been extremely frustrating for me, if there is a greater frustration in terms of politics is the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

This is not a matter affecting counties.

Very well. Next, Order.

Order, Sen. Murkomen!

Order, No.10 is a Division and Sen Adan is not in the House. The same applies to Order Nos.11, 12, 13, 14 and 15. We defer these Orders. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

For Order No.15, I give directions that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. who has several amendments on this particular Bill to consult with the Chairperson of the Committee, Sen. Kivuti. I, therefore, direct that this appears on the Order Paper on Wednesday, next week for the Committee of the Whole. At that time, they will have agreed and synchronized the amendments.

Next Order!

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is not here. I order that the same appears in the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week.

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The Chairperson is not here so, we defer the Bill.

Next, Order.

Next Order. Sen. Khaniri is not there. So we defer the Motion.

Next Order. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is not there. So, we defer the Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Next Order. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue is not there. So, we defer the Motion. INSTALLATION OF CCTV CAMERAS IN POLICE STATIONS AND POSTS CONCERNED about the numerous reports of the arbitrary arrests of innocent people by the police; FURTHER CONCERNED that a large number of those arrested are allegedly locked up in police cells without being recorded either in the Occurrence Book or elsewhere; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate

Hon. Senators, there being no other business to transact, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 13th October, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.20 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate