Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to the provision of Standing Order No. 46, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House, today, 28th September, 2017:- Business of the senate for the coming week.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Hon. Senators, can we now switch from the Order Paper that is written ‘Order Paper’ to the Supplementary Order Paper? That is what we will follow from now. Next Order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motions: ESTABLISHMENT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE ELECTION LAWS, 2017 THAT, aware that the country is still in an election cycle, arising out of the requirement for a fresh Presidential Election in October, 2017; further aware that there is need to legislate on and address certain legal lacunas and in compliance with judicial decisions asking Parliament to
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Hon. Senators, we will allow Statements to be requested first. Hon. Senators, whoever would like to request for Statement can go ahead. We will then reply to the Statements afterwards. ALLEGED DUMPING OF ASBESTOS IN NGULU- KIKUMBULYU, MAKUENI COUNTY
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to request for a Statement from the Senate Majority Leader on the dumping of asbestos in Ngulu-Kikumbulyu in Makueni County. In the Statement, the Senate Majority Leader should state the following:- (a) Whether the National EnvironmentManagement Authority (NEMA) is aware of the dumping of asbestos in Makueni County by West Africa ( Kenya) Limited; (b) Whether NEMA has approved the dumping of the said substance at the site; (c) Whether an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) Report on the matter has been submitted and published as required by Section 58(1)(2) and 59 of the National Environment Management and Coordination Act; (d) Whether the necessary safety regulations have been complied with in accordance with the Act; (e) Whether any immediate measures have been taken to inform the community living in the area on the hazards of the same dumping site, and; lastly, (f) Whether there are any adverse effects of asbestos to the general public and explain if there are any mitigation measures the company has put in place to safeguard the community against the said effects.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Thank you, Senator. May I request the Senate Majority Leader to tell us when he will issue the Statement?
Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, this is a very serious Statement; it touches on a serious issue both towards the environment and health. Therefore, I request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to give us three weeks so that we bring a comprehensive Statement.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Which day of the third week?
Madam Temporary Speaker, the Thursday of the third week from now. I have seen Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. nod because he understands the difficulties when we do not yet have the Chairperson of the Committee. However, I undertake to bring the Statement the third Thursday from next week.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Hon. Member, are you okay with that?
Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Senate Majority Leader, do you have another Statement to issue today? BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 10TH OCTOBER, 2017
Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.46, I would like to issue a Statement on the business of the Senate for the coming week. Pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 28 and 29, I will, at the appropriate time, and as listed in today’s Order Paper, move a Motion of Adjournment for the Senate to proceed on recess this Friday 29th September, 2017 as per the Senate Calendar that the House approved yesterday. We shall resume sittings on Tuesday 10th October, 2017. As Senators will note in the Supplementary Order Paper, The Elections Laws Amendment Bill (Senate Bill No.3 of 2017) is scheduled for First Reading. The main aim is to address some of the challenges identified during the last elections held on 8th August, 2017. Subsequently, there is a proposal as listed in the Order Paper, to constitute a Committee to review the Bill and engage the public and other stakeholders during the recess period. We hope that the Committee will assist to take the process forward. I take this opportunity to appeal to the Members of the Committee to demonstrate patriotism and selflessness in considering the Bill. Hon. Senators, allow me to thank and commend you all for the good work done so far since the commencement of this session. I am certain that we shall continue in the same spirit when we resume. Hon. Senators, I now take this opportunity to wish you a peaceful recess and successful campaigns. I thank you and hereby lay the Statement on the Table.
(Sen.) (Prof.) Kamar): Thank you, Senator. Next Order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 128, this House resolves to reduce the publication period of the Election Laws (Amendment) Bill, (Senate Bills No. 3 of 2017), from fourteen (14) days to one (1) day. Madam Temporary Speaker, as I have already indicated, we shall substantially debate this when we come to the formation of the Committee which is hereby provided for under Order No.10. This House has again been called upon in such a very historic moment to be the midwife of good order and rule of law. Sen. Fatuma Dullo has brought to this House a very important Bill. It has been certified by your office as an urgent Bill. Considering that elections will be held in the country in 28 days from today, this House has a responsibility to accommodate any Bill brought by any Member to this House and particularly when it is of such enormous impact in so far as the elections are concerned. Madam Temporary Speaker, there is a lot of debate about this proposed Bill out there but it should be known that this is a House of rules and debate. It is an august House and a House of honour and representation that gives every Kenyan an opportunity to say what they want to say through democratically elected representatives and to have an opportunity to appear before the democratically elected representatives and make their case. Madam Temporary Speaker, our Standing Orders provide for flexibility to enable this House, when there is an urgent matter that needs to be considered, to give room for publication to be shortened from the 14 days required by the Standing Orders. That room is only given by leave of the House. This House must vote by majority to allow this Bill to be published in such a short time. First of all, there are many issues that people would like to say about this Bill to the public. However, since we will have a Motion in Order No.10, I encourage Members to take the shortest time possible to pass the Procedural Motion and then come back and ventilate on the formation of that Committee in Order No.10. Madam Temporary Speaker, this House must rise to the occasion. I have heard objections by Members of this House in the public about why they do not like this Bill and why they would not like us to publish it. That is welcome. However, there is a procedure in this House of expressing dislike, changing law and providing alternative suggestions. This is a great opportunity for us to do so. Even if we are going on recess, we have an opportunity to use these few days to make sure that the elections of 26th October, 2017, are free, fair and credible. We want to see this county move forward. I do not know any person who is happy to see Kenya in the situation that we are. The Constitution contemplated that there would be such a situation, but the political environment and the social fabric of this country cannot continue holding a situation of
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): I do not see requests here for anybody to contribute.
.: On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am seeking your direction on this particular Bill. I have noticed that the Senate Majority Leader has already gone to other Motions before certain things are resolved. This morning, I came across a similar Bill, Supplement No.148 - National Assembly Bill No.39 of 2017 titled “Election Laws (Amendment) Bill 2017”. The said Bill has been proposed by Hon. William Cheptumo. It is dated 22nd September, 2017. The Bill published by Sen. Dullo, in my view after reading, appears to be the same Bill that is currently before the National Assembly.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Thank you, Senator. I have got your point. I was listening to you very keenly because I was looking for where you are going. That is why I was very liberal in giving you time to discuss. This Bill is before us for the First Reading. We are all aware that when a Bill comes for the First Reading, there is no debate. It is just read and committed to the relevant departmental committee.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the country is still in an election cycle, arising out of the requirement for a fresh Presidential Election in October, 2017; further aware that there is need to legislate on and address certain legal lacunas and in compliance with judicial decisions asking Parliament to legislate on certain matters to ensure that the elections conform with the provisions of Article 81 of the Constitution on general principles for the electoral system; noting that such election-related matters would ordinarily require consideration by the relevantStanding Committee of the House which is yet to be established; further noting the limited period of time before the date of the said fresh election; cognizant of the urgent need to consider and conclude with all matters relating to the elections to allow the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission ample time to implement any changes related to the review of the election- related laws; NOW THEREFORE, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 134 (3), (4), (5) and Standing Order 136 of the Senate, this House resolves:- (a) to establish a Select Committee be known as the
, comprising of not more than nine Senators to examine and undertake public participation on the Election Laws (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2017); (b) that, the Committee comprise the following Members- 1. Sen. Fatuma Adan Dullo; 2. Sen. Paul Kimani Wamatangi; 3. Sen. Johnson Arthur Sakaja; 4. Sen. (Rev.) Naomi Jilo Waqo; and
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to second this Motion. This is a good Bill, it is addressing the mistakes that happened in 2012 when this kind of a Bill was debated and passed. I do not see any good reason for our colleagues in the minority coalition to lament about the proposal that is being made in this Bill. As the Majority Leader said, instead of our colleagues addressing the press and the public, it would have been more useful if they were in the House to give their suggestions and contribute towards improving on what went wrong in 2012. It is not possible to have one chairperson without a backup since we are human beings and the chairperson can be sick. Therefore, to suggest that there should be a vice chairperson and in the absence of a vice chairperson, the majority should choose another chairperson, is in order. For any organization, even in a company, you cannot have one person running it without the support of other staff. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from the Supreme Court judgement, it is not clear how the Presidential elections were annulled because there was lack of proper evidence. We all know that voting in any jurisdiction is done by physically counting and knowing who got what number of votes. The question of forms 34A and 34B does not arise as far
Order Senator! You cannot walk when the Temporary Speaker is on his feet. Freeze where you are.
Let us Have Sen. Isaac Mwaura.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the appointment of Members to the select committee. As the Motion by the Senate Majority Leader has elucidated, it is clear that based on the Supreme Court ruling, we in Parliament have a responsibility to remove any ambiguities that would occasion a misinterpretation of the laws where we have been given responsibilities to legislate. Indeed, as a country, we are facing very extraordinary times because never before have we had a situation where our country has had to conduct a fresh election after we have just had one. If the challenges that have been witnesses in this country have been as a result of the law, it then follows that those provisions of the laws can only be rectified through amendments such as the ones that have been sponsored through this Bill by the distinguished Sen. Dullo. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there have been so many contestations regarding the ruling of the majority for and of course the dissenting opinions and that is on record. Even the majority of the judges of the Supreme Court pointed out that the word “or” is very contentious. Going by what he said, Chief Justice Maraga said that there has never been a history in this republic where the word “or” had such important meaning as is the case. We have to agree as a country that our election system is first and foremost a manual process. There is a lot of misunderstanding that our elections system is electronic. Nothing can be further from the truth. You can even go way back in history and you will see that in many jurisdictions, what counts at the end is the ballot. The questions we should be asking are whether Kenyans woke up on 8th August to go and vote; whether Kenyans voted for the six candidates using ballot papers; and whether those ballot papers were counted and the answers are “yes”. If you go ahead to ask whether they were well stored as per the statutory provisions for three years, again the answer is “yes”. That is exactly what happened and it is for that reason that the counsel for the first and second respondents for the case required that the plastic ballot boxes be used for fresh elections. The court simply asked whether those were the elections materials. I sat there for more than 10 hours following the proceedings. So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is very important to ensure that we do not find excuse in the submission of the fact that we have an electronic system of transmission of
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. There is no denying that we are still in an election cycle. We held elections on 8th August, 2017, but we are not yet done because of the petition which led to nullification of the presidential election by the Supreme Court. From that Supreme Court judgement, it is very clear that there are a lot of difficulties in the election laws that are in place today. Unless they are simplified, it would be difficult to carry out elections any further. The same court did actually recognise the fact that there could be some difficulties and Parliament should legislate to ensure that the elections conform to the provision of Article 81 of the Constitution. What we are discussing now is not the Bill itself. It is actually a Select Committee to look at that Bill and make a report to the Senate before we actually start discussing it. It is true that normally this matter is referred to a committee which deals with such matters when the committees are constituted. However, since we have not constituted the committees up to now because our friends on the other side are not here, it is only fair that the activities of this House continue. Procedures and systems should be put in place so that the functions of this House continue. This Motion is before us so that we form an Ad hoc Committee, so that this matter can be dealt with. It is true that the Members are from only one side of the House because Members of the other side decided to go on holiday and do other things which
Could we hear from Sen. Cheruiyot?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to make my contribution in support of this Motion. From the onset, it is proper for me to say that I support this great idea. There has been great discussion within the precincts of Parliament and out there. Many have wondered whether this is the correct line of thinking to take at this very interesting time that our country is facing. I want to remind those who are opposed to the formation of this Committee of Article 1(3) of our Constitution which states:- ‘Sovereign power under this Constitution is delegated to the following State organs, which shall perform their functions in accordance to this Constitution.’ The first to be listed even before the Executive, where the President serves and the Judiciary, is Parliament where we are this afternoon. It is clear that the spirit and the mind of the drafters of this Constitution envisaged that a time will come when Parliament will have to rise to the occasion and do something that will be great for the country so as to guide it in a time of crisis. The philosophy and the thinking behind the formation of Parliament in all jurisdictions without exception is that this is a gathering where all Kenyans of all shades, colour, tribe and sex gather to discuss and raise issues that concern them. The 47 elected and the 20 Nominated Senators represent the face of this country. They meet as it is prescribed in the manner before us in the form of a Motion where a Select Committee is being formed. This Select Committee is to discuss issues that will give good guidance to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC). I do not understand why somebody would be opposed to such a move. I understand the fears that are being raised by Members of the Opposition or those from the minority side of this House. What tells them that they cannot come to this Committee and participate? They can convince those of us in the majority regarding the laws or some of the amendments that are being proposed in the Bill that this Select Committee is going to look into and have their way. Why do they have this certain pre- occupation to believe that you can never be heard because they are in the minority? As a Member of this House, many times, I have seen proposals or amendments being shot down. Some of them have been proposals made by Members from the Minority side. Those of us from the Majority side have listened to them and they have had their way because they had better ideas. We are doing this in accordance with the ruling of the Supreme Court that asked Parliament to give guidance. I am sure that the judge who referred this matter back to Parliament knew that one of the institutions or state organs that have been delegated sovereign power is Parliament. This is where we meet, discuss, engage each other and find solutions that will help this country. If our
Could we hear from Sen. (Dr.) Milgo?
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion on the select Committee on Election Laws (Amendment) Bill No. 3 of 2017. This is based on three or four major reasons. First, when I was coming to this House this afternoon, I realized that the people in this city were not able to move around freely. This is because they were worried that they could be easily hurt or attacked. What was going on in the city is a product of the nullified election. I want to say that the nullification of election that took place in Kenya was the first in Africa and the third in the world. This shocked everyone because the people of Kenya voted on 8th August, 2017 and they spoke well. They chose their right leaders. However, it was quite absurd that a process could bring nullification of such a choice.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, there is a point of order from the Senate Deputy Majority Leader, Sen. Dullo.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Looking at the time, we have utilised about one-and-half hours. There is a lot of interest. With your indulgence, I will request that you reduce the time to five minutes for each Member.
Thank you, Senators. Every speaker has 15 minutes but allow me to reduce that to 10 minutes. Instead of 15 minutes, you will have 10 minutes. Proceed
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---
Five minutes is too short. We will make it 10, though Sen. (Dr.) Milgo has only five minutes.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Committee will ensure that in future we are not going to face such a challenge as the one that we have just experienced recently. The IEBC right now are supposed to put in place a very water tight system. They cannot do that without any. This Senate Committee will ensure that in future, our election procedures will not bring about the annulment of elections. Over time, if it were not for amendment of laws, a Senator like me would not be in this House. It is out of this amendment that even affirmative action was put in place. In the past, the registration of voters was a really contentious issue. Somebody would use and manipulate it to his or her own advantage. Right now, the registration of voters is quite streamlined because of an amendment of our laws. Furthermore, the five Senators that I am seeing here are very seasoned politicians. I am sure in the time they have been given, they will come up with the best amendments to see us through the forthcoming presidential election so that we can have a peaceful country. I support.
Yes, Sen. Halake.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. First, I would like to state that laws and regulations are not an end in themselves. They should be serving the purpose for which they were enacted.
There is a point of order from Sen. Cherargei.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir? There is a Member who has just walked in and I do not know whether she is dressed appropriately with decorum, as it is the tradition of this House.
What is the name of the hon. Senator?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know her name, but she is seated near the entrance.
Maybe we can afford her the right of reply.
My microphone is not working. My name is Sen. Kasanga Silvia. I am not sure what my fellow Senator is referring to. I am in an African outfit. I do not know what the issue is all about.
Yes, there was a point of order that was taken regarding the dressing of the Senator. Again, I refer you to Senators Rules published on August 2017. Part I is on the Conduct of Senators within the premise of Parliament. Rule 5 is clear on how Senators are supposed to dress. There is no much details in regard to women’s dress. It only provides that an equivalent standard shall apply in respect of women Senators. It essentially says that they should have a coat, a collar, a tie, long trousers, socks and shoes or service uniform, religious attire or such decent dressing has been approved by the speaker from time to time. While I would urge the lady Senator to familiarize herself with that rule, however, she is okay. Sen. Cherargei, your point of order is overruled for now.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, please, allow me to continue. I rise to support this Motion and congratulate Sen. Dullo for taking her time to ensure that the very rules for which a legitimate presidential election was nullified - for lack of what was called simplicity, accountability, credibility and verifiability - are put in place. As I mentioned earlier on, rules, laws and policies are not an end in themselves. They should serve the object for which they were enacted, both in form, substance in spirit and in the letter. Rules and laws should have a continuous improvement element to them because no rule, law or policy is perfect. Sen. Dullo took her time to study the form and substance of the laws that govern our elections and identify key areas of lacunas that we faced and continue to face as a country. Perhaps this will not be the last time this House will be debating similar amendments for this or even other laws. I have looked and read each section of the election related Act 2011 and each of the amendments that have been introduced. For example, the amendment to Section (29), Section 6 (9) of the Election Act 2011 and all the subsequent amendments have improved the ambiguity and the mischief for people to manipulate or curtail the process. Bearing in mind that laws, regulations and policies are to serve higher purpose for which they are conceived, it is important for us to do the right thing. Each and every one of these amendments will contribute greatly towards improving our electoral laws and make sure there is accountability, verifiability and credibility in our elections. There is also no doubt that reforms are required as articulated by the Supreme Court Judges in their ruling when they nullified the presidential election. Who is best suited to do this than elected Members of Parliament to whom the power of the people has been delegated and whose job it is to do this? It is our job as elected Members of Parliament in both Houses to legislate and to put in place systems and processes that serve the people of this country. What Sen. Dullo has done is take this mandate that is
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. First, I am a clear proof of a free and fair elections. I come from a Jubilee zone yet I ran as an independent candidate. That is an indication that the elections were free and fair. If they were not fair, Jubilee would have had an upper hand in getting the Jubilee candidate in. So, let us acknowledge that to a large extent, the elections were free and fair. We ensured that the votes were cast and counted as per the law. The Bible states that laws are made for man but not man for the laws. In that regard, we can amend because we are law makers. So, it is upon us to ensure that we keep on adapting the laws and rules as the environment dictates. It is surprising that our friends would go to a court of law to seek redress for issues that they feel they are not comfortable with. One then wonders why it becomes very difficult for us to come to the legislature to amend the laws that would make the environment even better. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the economy of this country should not always get a “cold when some people sneeze.” It is high time we get some immunization to ensure that we separate the political arena and the economic part of this country so that when people are fighting in the political environment, the economy continues to grow. As we speak, people in the business world are complaining about Kenya. They say that there is no money. People are asking us, “Where is the money? Pesa ilienda wapi ? Where do we get the money? What happened to the money?” The issues today are not making the situation better. I call upon the political leadership of this country, more so, my side of the divide, that we live up to what one gentleman, the late hon. Saitoti said, that there comes a time when the country is bigger than all of us. So, I urge our brothers from the other side to come; we deliberate, discuss, debate and agree on the issues that need to be amended. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in that regard, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I thank the Amani National Congress (ANC) for nominating me to the Senate. On the proposed amendments to the electoral laws, I have one question to my brothers and sisters on the other side; why now? We have just come from a General Election which was considered to have been held contrary to the law. Instead of us following that law in the fresh election, we are seeking to change it. It is ridiculous, absurd and not in consideration of the good or prosperity of Kenya.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ninaunga mkono Hoja hii. Waliochaguliwa kuhudumu katika hili jopo ni Maseneta walio na umaarufu na uzoefu wa kazi. Sen. Fatuma Adan Dullo, Sen. Wamatangi, Sen. Sakaja, Sen. Naomi na Sen. Cheruiyot wana uzoefu na kwa hivyo itawezekana. Pili, kazi ya Bunge ni kutunga sheria. Hakuna wakati utakaosemwa ni mzuri au mbaya. Wakati wowote ni wa kutunga sheria. Hiyo ndiyo kazi yetu. Kazi yetu ni kutunga sheria. Huwezi ukasema wakati fulani ni mzuri wa kutunga sheria. Sheria yoyote ambayo inaonekana kuwa na upungufu inapaswa kutengenezwa wakati unaofaa. Hii inatupa fursa njema, hasa kwa wale wanaonung’unika ya kwamba kulikuwa na shida wakati wa uchaguzi. Wanaweza kuja wakaliona hili jopo wakaleta malalamishi yao yote hapa badala ya kwenda kwa maandamano huko nje. Hii ni kwa sababu hata wakiandamana huko nje sheria inatengenezwa katika Bunge. Jambo lingine nzuri ni kuwa kukiwa na upungufu katika sheria, ikiletwa Bungeni itaangaliwa vizuri zaidi kwa maana isipoangaliwa vizuri zaidi, ikipelekwa kwa Korti, wale Mahakimu watafanya vile watakavyofanya – I mean they can legislate from thebench if there is ambiguity ---
Point of correction Senator.
I am referring to the rules of this House that you are supposed to use one language. You either choose to use Kiswahili or English. Now, that most likely you started with Kiswahili, it is advisable you stick to it.
Bw. Speaker wa Muda, tukiwa na sheria ambayo haieleweki vyema kabisa, kama vile yalikuwa malengo ya Bunge walipokuwa wakitunga ile sheria, ikipelekwa mahakamani au kortini, wale mahakimu wanaweza wakasema vile ambavyo wanavyotaka kuihusu. Kwa hivyo, ni vizuri sisi wenyewe tuitengeneze kama vile ilivyoletwa hapa kwa marekebisho na kuangaliwa zaidi. Hakuna kitu ambacho ni kizuri asili mia kwa mia ndiposa kila kitu kinapaswa kuangaliwa vizuri. Kwa mfano, hata ukinunua gari jipya, bado litakuwa na gurudumu la “spare.” Hata binadamu mwenyewe akiwa ameumbwa na Mungu---
Order, Sen. Kinyua! Kindly take your seat. I refer Senators to Standing Order No. 81, whose title is “Proceedings to be in Kiswahili, English or Kenyan Sign Language: and it provides as follows:- (1) All proceedings of the Senate shall be conducted in Kiswahili, English or in Kenyan Sign Language. (2) A Senator who begins a speech in any of the languages provided for under paragraph (1) shall continue in the same language until the conclusion of the Senators’ speech.” Be guided accordingly, Sen. Kinyua.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. While that is the correct procedure, on the question of the “spare tire”, we do not have any Kiswahili word for “spare.” Everybody says it in Kiswahili as “tairi spare.” In that case, what would you do?
Well, maybe we need a linguistic expert to ascertain as to whether, indeed, we do not have a Kiswahili equivalent of the word spare tire. We can be helped by a Senator who is a linguistic professor. What is your comment, Senator, on that issue?
Let him continue, I will assist him.
Proceed Sen. Kinyua.
Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nimeambiwa ni gurudumu la ziada. Bw. Spika wa Muda, nilikuwa nasema kuwa hata gari jipya liko na gurudumu la ziada.
Hata binadamu mwenyewe akiumbwa, hata akiwa mzuri vipi, huumbwa na figo mbili, moja ikiwa ya ziada. Hii ni kwa sababu binadamu anahitaji figo moja tu ndiposa ikikosa kufanya kazi vizuri, atatumia ile figo ingine. Kwa hivyo, nakubaliana na hii sheria, hasa jopo hili; kuwa watakapoanza kuangalia maswala haya, waseme tuwe tunatumia njia zote mbili. Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Naunga mkono.
We have a request from Sen. Shiyonga, who does not have a log-in card. Therefore, she can rise and speak. Proceed, Sen. Shiyonga.
Thank you very much Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I have a card. I rise to speak on the election laws amendment that is before this House today. First, of all, I want to thank you very much for representing the House today in the capacity of the Speaker. The other day, I did not get the opportunity to thank the Speaker when he was here. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose the amendment. Looking at the temperature of our country at this particular point in time and what Kenya is undergoing, I am allowed to state that we are representatives of different constituencies, counties and parts of our country. I therefore want to urge the Members, especially those from the majority side, that Kenya is our country and our land. Any surgery in the form of amendments that we want to make on this particular law that we have proposed; it might be favoring you or the side that has proposed it. But let us look at the other side; if it was opposing you, would you be supporting it? No, you would not. Today, you can be in the majority side, but tomorrow you might be in the team of the minority, because we are elected leaders. We need to look at it because these amendments are meant to guide Kenya, not the few individuals who are here. Despite the fact that we have been elected to represent Kenyans, let us represent them in such a way that any other person can look at it and say; yes, I adore and accept what we have done. Let us not look at what the temperatures and our emotions are telling us, but let us look at the Government, our business, our lives and
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of information, Sen. Dullo? Do you want to be informed, Sen. Shiyonga?
Probably if I can finish making my contribution and then she informs me, the better.
Well, she has refused to be informed. Proceed, Sen. Shiyonga.
Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I was saying that when we are going to discuss these issues in different Committees, let us be remorseful. Let us look at it like we are amending a document that is going to affect every Kenyan in every part of Kenya.
What is your point of order, Sen. Mwaura?
I am Sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. You have just given me the chance when my very good colleague, Sen. Shiyonga, has just concluded. But I was wondering whether it is in order for her to ask the House to be remorseful? On what basis are we supposed to be remorseful when passing laws?
Well, Sen. Mwaura, you are overruled because you are out of order. It was just a contribution that she made, which I think was correct in terms of what she wanted to communicate. Proceed, Sen. Waqo.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion. Before I go far, I want to appreciate the effort of the sponsor, Sen. Dullo, for thinking and being a visionary leader. The situation that we are in today deserves that and calls for that quick action. As I stand, I am not just standing because I am in the list – and I appreciate the people who considered my name – I feel I will learn a lot from the other experts who were here before me and whose work I really respect and I admire. However, as you all rightly said, I come from my background as a religious leader. I will look at what is ahead of us, pray about it and also be guided by the scripture. We are in a very unique situation and majority of Kenyans are confused and not sure of what tomorrow holds for us. It is during times like this that we all need to play our roles with a lot of dignity and save the situation we are in. Outside there, many are asking whether we really have leaders who are leading this country. Do we have people who are thinking ahead of time to save this country?” Yes, the situation we are in is not good but we have the opportunity to turn things round. Experience is a good teacher and we have learnt from our experience after the elections and all that has taken place. I support this, mainly because of the following few reasons: As you know, according to statistics, 38.5 per cent of Kenyans are illiterate. It is even worse when you think of north eastern Kenya where the percentage of illiteracy is 87.1 per cent. When we introduced the electronic transmission system and other technology that we introduced during the last election, many of our people suffered in different ways.
Just one minute. My attention has been drawn to the fact that this debate ought to be concluded 15minutes to 5.00p.m. I have seen that there is a lot of interest from Members. I kindly urge you to reduce your time. I also want to alert Members that taking into account the limited time remaining, the other senators will speak for only 4 minutes each. I have also realised that the other side now wants to speak. They may have to get preferential talking time.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I conclude, I was saying that I support this Bill for accountability purposes---
One minute only.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is the same that has given birth to what we now call electronic transmission. In the church, we say that we are guided by three things: Reason, tradition and scripture and for our purpose here, I suggest that we be guided by reason, tradition and the Constitution, which we have been given the mandate to amend from time to time. I support.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for also giving me a chance to support the amendments by my colleague - our sister. I thank her for having brought this important Bill to this House. I want to congratulate her for having thought hard and especially at a time like this when we need to put measures in place to see how we can correct what has already cost Kenyans billions of money and time. I congratulate Members who have been appointed to the select Committee and assure Kenyans that these are men and women of integrity and knowledge, and are equal to the task. They will make sure that they have perused through the amendments to the election laws and will come up with amendments that will help this country move forward. In the same breath, I wish to urge the other political divide of this House to also respect the independence of this House. They should forward the names of their Members to also sit in that Committee and contribute to the amendments on the election laws which can go a long way in correcting what they thought was a mess in the election that was done on 8th of August, 2017. At the same time, we should also respect Parliament just the way we respect the Supreme Court of Kenya because of their independence. They have even made a ruling
Let us have Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri.
(Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to oppose this Procedural Motion because looking at the symptomatology or chronology of political events taking place in this country, we are surely driving this nation to an irredeemable level. This is the time when reason and consultations must prevail. You cannot unilaterally set up a select Committee to discuss matters of elections, considering the recent debacle that was witnessed in the handling of the results at the polling stations and the transmission of those results. Some of us in our respective constituencies or counties are privy to how the system was manipulated. It is only that we cannot all be witnesses to these events. I have been through all this process. In 1997 when we had a similar crisis it was prudent then to set up an Inter Parliamentary Parties Group (IPPG) to come up with a solution that was acceptable to all Kenyans. In 2007 I found myself in the Serena Committee trying to resolve this matter. The current Constitution is a product of a very intensive and aggressive participation by all Kenyans from all walks of life. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you cannot change the rules in the middle of a football match. It is ill-thought out and will not augur well. It has no common spirit of moving together. I represent the Kisii County as a Senator and would find it difficult to support a Motion that is one sided. It does not take into account the feelings of people on the ground. We should be in a position to work out this together without causing acrimony and ill feelings amongst the Kenyan people. It is easy to tip this country to another scale. I would not choose that route because as a Christian and peace loving person, I would love this nation to move together. We have seen before previous events that have gone through this route and had disastrous results. We do not have to recount the many disastrous results we have had. Therefore, I feel constrained and will not support this Motion for this basic reason; that we are simply using the tyranny of numbers to bulldoze through a legislation which, by all intents and purposes, is selective. I will not go that route because then I would be falling into the level of selective amnesia; that I am not in this House.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank the people of Kisumu County for giving me an opportunity to be their Senator. However, even as I do so, I have a heavy burden. I feel
Order, Members! Your time is up. Sen. Olekina.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to oppose this Motion. My good friend, Sen. Murkomen, knows that this is an exercise in futility. Sen. Murkomen sat in the Supreme Court when it was delivering its judgement. If I can take him back to school, because sometimes I wonder why lawyers go to school and cannot interpret what is indicated there---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. Olekina to refer to legit parliamentary business as an exercise in futility? Why did he then campaign? If you believe that the work we do in this House is an exercise in futility, why did you go around Narok County, campaigning to come here?
The Senator for Kericho County, you are overruled. The reason is that if at all the proposal is defeated, of course, it would be a
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for taking them back to school. I want the people of Narok County to realise that when the Supreme Court delivered its judgment, it was very clear. It was clear that the IEBC was given 60 days to conduct an election within the law and Constitution. I oppose this Motion because it seeks to amend the Constitution through the back door. You cannot even apply the law in this election. You need to go back and read the judgment of the Supreme Court; it is very clear on its essence. I want the people of Narok County to realise that instead of the Jubilee administration recognising the fight that most Kenyans or the blood that was poured for us to get our independence and freedom, it is bringing matters of national interest and turning them into issues of Private Bills. An amendment to the election laws is not a Private Bill; you ought to realise that. Election Laws (Amendment) Bill should not be a Private Member’s Bill, we ought to realize that it is not for the benefit a few people. We have children and a country that we have fought so hard for. Any one purporting to amend certain things so that they can use our money to get themselves into power should be ashamed. We are sick and tired of a Government that wants to control people by amending the Constitution through the back door.
I still have time, Hon. Senator. I want the people of Narok to know that I will be on the frontline to organise demonstrations against any amendment to the Election Laws. In fact, I want to congratulate Mr. Chebukati for coming out to clearly say that these amendments should not be enacted. Hon. Members and Kenyans, you should realize that this is a beautiful country. Yesterday, a Senator who has more of his family members in Somali told us that there are kids who were born 25 years ago and they do not know anything about freedom. If you amend this law, Senator Murkomen, your kids will never know freedom. Do not forget that you are on the majority side today and tomorrow, you may be on the minority side. When you are given power, do not abuse it because that is exactly what you are doing right now. This country is more important than an individual. If I may plead with this House, this is a House of reason and union, it is supposed to unite this country. Let us reason like men and women of good character. Let us be judged by history as people who stood against impunity and injustices. Let us remember that we are all in this House because of the will of the people who elected us not because of our selfish interest but national interest. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I vehemently oppose this Motion.
Hon. Members, the time for debating this Motion has been extended by 20 minutes due to the immense interest it has elicited. Let us have Sen. Samson Kiprotich Cherargei of Nandi County.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. Any law that is made under the sun will always be repealed and amended. That is the nature of law. As Senators, we should not be apologetic for the reason why we are here. Under Article 1(2) of the Constitution, it is clear that we are here because of the sovereignty donated to us by the people and we shall exercise it. I want to challenge our colleagues in the minority coalition who have resolved to intimidate us because of the tyranny of numbers that we enjoy. We will never be apologetic for that.
Any democratic process has majority and that is why now we are the majority. If you read carefully the majority Supreme Court Judgment, it identified some gaps. I want to thank the Deputy Majority Leader, Sen. Fatuma Dullo, for preparing a solomonic Bill that we will be debating. We must assist the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to have a proper legal framework to carry out a proper electoral process as envisaged in Article 81 of the Constitution. I want to challenge my colleagues, this is the time to stand up and be counted. Laws will always be made and cannot be stopped at any given time. We must rise up and assist the IEBC to play its role. Article 10 of the Constitution on national values and principles of governance, public participation is key. My brothers in the National Super Alliance (NASA), the only place you can make your voice heard is not in the streets through mass action and press briefings. Make sure you appear before this Committee and bring out your issues. As I finish, when King Farouk was being dethroned, Gamal Abdel Nasser told the people who wanted to kill the king that history will sentence the king to death. So, NASA people led by their principal will be sentenced to death by history because they want to bring destruction to this country. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of Order, Sen. Olekina?
Is my good friend in order to suggest that history is going to sentence people of this society to death? It is your actions that will destroy this country. Let us be careful on certain things that we say.
Sen. Olekina, that is not a point of order. Let us have Sen. Mwinyi Haji Mohamed Faki of Mombasa County.
Ahsante, Mhe. Spika wa Muda, kwa fursa hii ya Kuchangia Hoja hii ya kuchaguliwa kwa Kamati hii maalum ya Seneti kujadili mabadiliko ya sheria za uchaguzi. Mwanzo, ningependa kumkosoa mzungumzaji aliyetangulia kusema kuwa maandamano sio public participation . Kwa hakika, hio ndio mojawapo ya mbinu wanazotumia wananchi katika public participation kupima mambo yao. Nikirejea kwa Hoja iliyopendekezwa, Hoja hii inaturudisha nyuma zaidi ya miaka ishirini kutoka tulipoanza mchakato wa vyama vingi nchini Kenya. Mwaka wa 1988,
Your time is up. Let us now have Sen. Omogeni.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I take this opportunity to thank the good people of Nyamira County for having elected me their Senator. I also want to state that I am proud to be the Senator of the great man called Chief Justice Maraga. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose this Motion. For once, I appeal to our friends on the majority side to exercise caution and respect our values in Article 10. If you read our Constitution, Article 10 obligates us to be patriotic citizens of this country. If you further read Article 94 of the Constitution, you will find that we as honourable Members of the Senate represent the diversity of the people of this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a trend that is emerging from the Jubilee leadership that wants to divide this nation. I want to remind my friends on the majority side that is not a sin to sit on this side. We sit on this side because we have a passion to promote good governance and defend democracy and we will do it without fear or favour and we have no apologies to make.
Senator, your time is up. Let us have Sen. Ndwiga.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to take up from where my friend Sen. Omogeni has ended. Yes we need to be rational, get together and reason as a House. The previous speaker was in the court and he heard the ruling. After the ruling we all read the judgment which pointed out the flaws and therefore the reason fresh elections were called for. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as legislators, it is our duty not to wait for Maraga or whoever it is to tell us what to do. Once we know where there are flaws in the law, it is our duty to get back to this House and rectify whatever the flaws are. As a country we require to conduct new elections. It is very true that we do not change laws in the streets. I know that as a House or even Jubilee, we cannot compel the IEBC on what to do. I therefore urge my friends on the other side to stop the monkey business on the streets, telling the IEBC what to do. You cannot be on the streets telling the IEBC who to sack and who not to sack and then come back to this House and tell us that we cannot compel the IEBC.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Member to imply that doing a constitutional right of demonstrating on the streets is monkey business? Is he in order to use the words “monkey business” in this honourable House?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think we need to extend the period of induction so that we get to know what is parliamentary and what is not. It is true that MPs or Senators should not be on the streets but in the House amending laws. It is not
Order, Members! Sen. Pareno, your point of order is overruled.. You did raise one point of order. I ruled that his speech was correct because what he used was figurative speech. Therefore, it was just a stylistic device. Sen. Ndwiga, you have 30 seconds to finish.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, mine is to advice my friends on the other side. It is true that we want to have a very hon. Senate. Let them please get back to the House and amend all the laws. I agree with Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri that even Inter-Parties Parliamentary Group (IPPG) was not done in the streets; it was done in this House. I support.
Thank you. We only have one slot for one speaker which I will to give to Sen. Madzayo. He is the last speaker on this Motion.
Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ningependa kupinga Hoja hii kwa sababu zifuatazo. Kuunda kamati ambayo itaangalia njia ya kugeuza zile sheria za uchaguzi, hasa tukizingatia kwamba juzi tulikuwa na kesi kortini na Mahakama ya Upeo ilitoa uamuzi wake na kusema turudi kwa uchaguzi tena. Litakuwa jambo la kinyume cha zile sheria na uamuzi wa Mahakama ya Upeo ikiwa tutabadilisha sheria ya uchanguzi. Tumeambiwa tuende tukafanye uchaguzi kulingana na sheria. Kwa hivyo, ni lazima tuzingatie zile sheria ambazo zilikuwa wakati huo. Si sheria mpya kutumika bali zile sheria zetu kama vile zilivyo zitumike.
Na hivi tunavyoona ni kwamba, ikiwa mpira uko karibu kuingia kwenye goli halafu unaondoa goli na kuiweka upande mwingine, basi nia yako ni kwamba ule mpira ukipigwa usiingie ndani ya goli. Sababu yao kufanya hivyo ni kubatilisha uamuzi wa Mahakama ya Upeo. Jambo la pili na historia inaweza kutubaini wazi tukiwa hapa ndani ya Bunge hili. Kipengele 2(a) cha Katiba kuhusu Sheria za Uchaguzi, tulisema kuwe na mfumo wa vyama vingi. Utaona ya kwamba, kwa wale watu ambao waliweza kushiriki sana kuleta vyama vingi hapa kulikuwepo mmoja wetu na ndugu yangu Sen. Ndwiga. Juzi tulikuwa tunajadiliana naye akaniambia kuwa alikuwa anatoroka hapa na pale kukwepa polisi wasimkameta kule nyumbani. Leo ninashangaa nikimuona hapa akichangia na kusema sheria hizi zibatilishwe. Aliniambia ya kwamba alikuwa anatafutwa kama panya. Pahali popote alikoenda alitafutwa hadi akalazimika kujitetea. Ndugu yangu alinieleza hayo. Mimi nataka
The Mover to reply.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me start by congratulating the Senators who have demonstrated a lot of commitment and passion towards this Bill. Allow me to, in fact, congratulate the minority side. At the time I was moving this Bill, there was no indication that any of them would have come to the House and even if they did, that they were going to debate. We can now assume by conduct that the minority side are now going to participate in legislation in the House. They are back in full swing. They have made robust opposing remarks to this Motion which is exactly why we wanted them here. I also look forward to having them for another two weeks to come and debate on the Bill. Secondly, when I was moving this Bill, I gave an opportunity to the minority side to give us the four names so that we can amend the Motion. We have waited for two hours. I have conversed and tried to persuade the minority side to leave their hard-line position, which has become a signature position for their political outfit, to give us four names so that we can amend the Motion and include them. There are some issues that were raised by Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri from IPPG to Serena talks. There were also issues that have been raised by Sen. Madzayo. There are also the mass action issues that Sen. Outa alluded to which can be part and parcel of the process and considerations of the Senate. I have seen most of my colleagues in the minority side talking about the desire to go to mass action. You cannot have spent so much money and time to campaign and when the opportunity comes to be a Senator, you say that this is not the right forum and resort to mass action. You can allow those who voted for you to do the mass action. However, you can take this very enviable opportunity and change something meaningfully on the Floor of the House. I want to convince my friend, Sen. Outa, who has been my friend for a long time that he needs to quickly get used to the “upper” House because here, we do things in a very orderly manner. We do not pour water on ourselves. There is no fighting here and we are ready to listen to every idea. I said this when I was moving the Motion, that the majority side and being the leader on this other side, we are willing to listen to everybody to ensure that this Bill is amended and put in the right version so that we can have a peaceful country. Thirdly, my colleagues on the minority side are so worried about the tyranny of numbers. The reason why they are here is because of numbers. If there was no tyranny of numbers in their counties – they took the tyranny of numbers – they would actually be languishing in their villages. The men and the women whom you defeated back home are actually crying about tyranny of numbers because that is the definition of democracy.
Order Senators! Order!
As a matter of law, we must ensure that the IEBC is capable of operating and moving forward. I have heard our
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is he in order to say that we have said that we are going to throw stones? Nobody has said that. Can he substantiate?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator was in and out of the House. He was not here when the Senator for Kisumu County contributed. I would have had a problem if it was him who was raising the issue. So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we support any citizen of the Republic of Kenya who is going to demonstrate, because it is one of the ways of exercising freedom of speech and the right to speak. It is also a way for them to raise their voices against that which they do not like. However, they must remember that the Kenyan people will not accept a situation where freedom of speech and movement is going to be used to undermine the rights of others. So, they must know that their rights end where the rights of others begin. They must, therefore, organize themselves in a manner that will ensure that the rights of the members of the Nairobi Business Community begin where the rights for the members of the National Super Alliance (NASA) end. They must understand the extent they can reach in what they do. Secondly, it is extremely unfortunate that a coalition that is seeking to lead the country can---
There is an intervention from Sen. Mwaruma Mwashushe from Taita-Taveta County. Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they are still learning how to use the gadget. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was saying that it is unfortunate that a coalition that is seeking to lead this country can profile Kenyan companies like Safaricom---
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
It better be a good point of order.
What is your point of order, Sen. Pareno?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Member to keep talking about NASA instead of contributing towards the Motion that he has moved? He is busy talking about NASA, what it said and stones instead of contributing to the Motion that is on the Floor of the House. I seek your guidance on that.
Senator, you are out of order. He is contributing and making his reply to the issues that were raised during debate. Proceed.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think that Sen. Pareno was here when they threw so many questions to the Majority side and I am just responding to the questions as raised. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a shame; Safaricom is one of the best companies to be ever registered in this country. The Safaricom Mpesa concept is a miracle all over the world and it is being copied by so many countries. Safaricom has won so many awards for this innovation. Safaricom is the face of our Republic when it comes to business. I feel extremely sad when our colleagues confidently negatively profile a company such as Safaricom in public yet they are beneficiaries of Safaricom’s pay bill numbers. They even use Safaricom lines to make phone calls yet they can confidently go publicly to negatively profile such a company, which has contributed immensely to our country; employed so many of our youths and exported so much branding? Why would you seek for a position of leadership if you blame Safaricom and a French company? Why would you seek for a position of leadership yet you do not like the Kenya Defense Forces (KDF) and this country? Why would you want to be a leader of a country when you do not like its economy, security and the beauty and you do not want to live in it? I want to persuade the NASA team that it is time they began to retrace their first love for this country. They should begin to imagine a country where there is a loser and a winner. They must accept that our country must move forward. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is genuine fear going round the country. I was speaking to one business person who told me that these people mention a company like Safaricom with the hope that the company will get scared. When that happens, they send their emissaries to tell them to give them something for campaigns if they want them to keep quiet.
Order, Senate Majority Leader! You have to substantiate that point.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have said and I want to repeat it; that a business man in this town told me of the fear that they have. He did not say that they do it; but it is a fear that they have. They fear that people who do such kind of things to scare such companies and then they send their message, telling them that if you want us to keep quiet, then meet us somewhere in this corner; send something for campaigns or increase the money in my Pay bill account.
I hope that our friends on the Minority side are not intimidating public companies so that they---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of order, Sen. Pareno?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Member, despite you guiding him that he substantiates, to go ahead to talk about the same thing without giving substantiation? We want to hear him substantiate and tell us under what circumstances he came to learn about this or who NASA sent to go and negotiate for them to keep quiet. Please substantiate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
We have another point of order from Sen. Sakaja. What is your point of order?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have noticed that you are a bit liberal in issuing interventions, which are just interruptions. Let me draw your attention to the Standing Orders, and I hope that Sen. Pareno and the rest are listening. Standing Order No. 87(1) states that:- “Any Senator may raise a point of order at any time during the speech of another Senator, stating that the Senator raises on a point of order and that Senator shall be required to indicate the Standing Order upon which the point of order is based.” Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, those are points of debate; points of interruption are not points of order. This House is guided by rules. If one does not agree with what the Senator has said, they should wait for their turn to give an opposing view. Most of what you have allowed as points of order are not points of order. Kindly, let us follow the rules in our Standing Orders.
Thank you. Hon. Senators, you need to know that one is not supposed to raise a second point of order if the first point of order has not been ruled on. Therefore, allow me to rule on the first point of order that was raised by Sen. Pareno. Sen. Pareno, you are out of order because your point of order, in actual sense, is a point of argumentation.
You had a chance to come and give your submissions but you did not come early enough. Therefore, allow me not to uphold your point of order. To me, that was a point through which you were trying to converse. The second point of order that was taken by the Senator for Nairobi County is a good point of order and it is there in the Standing Orders. However, I have been using my discretion as the Speaker. Senators are yet to get used to the rules of this House and, therefore, I have not been very strict in enforcing that rule. Of course you know that the Speaker has that power under Standing Order No. 1(1) to be somehow accommodative. Therefore, going forward, when we come back during the next session, we shall be very strict pursuant to the Standing Order that has been raised by the Senator for Nairobi County. For now, we have been very accommodative so as to allow Members to talk freely. For now, let us allow the Senate Majority Leader to proceed taking into account what you have said. Sen. Murkomen, proceed and conclude giving your reply. You have only two minutes to conclude.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I call upon my colleagues to respect our country, avoid these acts of economic sabotage and any acts of creating artificial political crisis. Let us accept that the same way - I am sending senior counsel Sen. Omogeni - that the same way your competitor accepted that you won and the voters that did not vote for you have accepted that you are their senator, I urge you to also accept that when your coalition leader loses an election it is not time to sabotage our economy or our country. Our country will still be there with us. There were people who were on that side like Sen.(Eng.) Hargura who are now sitting here and I will not be surprised before the end of the term when more than half of you will have joined us on this side. It is important for us not to wreck our country just for the simple reason that we have an election that is coming. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to move this Motion and ask this honorable House to vote in support and that we move with speed to ensure that the amendments are taken care of and that our country can have an election on October 26th2017 that is free, fair and credible.
Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order 73 (1) I rule that this Motion is a matter not affecting counties. Consequently, the House will proceed to do a voice vote on the matter.
The Motion appearing in the Supplementary Order Paper, Motion number 11 has been stood over. ESTABLISHMENT OF SPECIAL NHIF FUND FOR PLWDS AWARE that about 15 per cent of the Kenyan population are persons living with disabilities; APPRECIATING that the Government has taken several measures to avail certain privileges through the National Council for Persons with Disabilities (NCPD) to registered persons living with disabilities; NOTING that the National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) is a contributory health insurance cover and the remittance of contributions for persons living with disabilities by Government for the cover, is not among the privileges extended to persons living with disabilities; CONCERNED that most persons living with disabilities have difficulties engaging in gainful income generating activities that would enable them pay the contributions to NHIF, hence are without any medical cover; FURTHER CONCERNED that many persons with disabilities are unable to access medical services leading to high mortality rate;
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance. Yesterday afternoon, during debate on one of our Motions, I rose on a point of order based on utterances that had been made by one of our colleagues, Sen. Pareno where she had alleged that in one of the polling stations in Narok County, the IEBC vote tally had stated that President Uhuru Kenyatta had scored 5,000 votes. In accordance to Standing Order No 94, you ruled that today being the next day of sitting, that she will either furnish this House with documents supporting her claim or she withdraws that all together. I am seeking your guidance because I have seen her touching her handbag. That means that either she is removing the document supporting or about to dash out of the House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, please guide us before she leaves.
Yes, indeed, Sen. Pareno you need to either withdraw the remark that you made yesterday or you give documentary evidence which is admissible to this House proving your point.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take the business of this House seriously and I also take time to consider what I say before I say it. I was able to download what I referred to from the IEBC records because I am using their records. I only managed to get them this afternoon showing what I talked about; polling stations in Narok County and specifically I had referred to Nituyupake Polling station in Narok North with 507 registered voters but 5,527 voters are the ones who cast their vote.
Any other Senator who wishes to speak on this matter? Yes, Sen. Seneta.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I seek your directive on whether we should just accept any download which is not certified or have Form 34As and 34Bs which were also filled on that particular ---
I am on the Floor. I also request that we get the original forms that were filled by the Presiding Officers because some of these downloads which our colleagues in NASA presented in court were doctored by some conmen whom they colluded with to produce results that are not real.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have two points. First, the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) has its records in two formats as provided for by the law; electronic and manual. The Senator purports to be in possession of some documents which she claims are from the IEBC. I have no way of determining whether they are legitimate or illegitimate. However, that I can verify some information from the IECB portal, for instance, Narok County, County No.33; Narok North, Constituency No.179; Olokurto Polling Station, Naituyupaki Primary School, a polling centre with two polling stations. Two polling stations can have a maximum of 1,400 votes.
That is a statement of fact, my friend. That is the law. There are no streams anymore. The results from the IEBC portal are as follows:- The candidate who won in that polling station is Mr. Raila Amollo Odinga with 818 votes. The second one is Mr. Uhuru Kenyatta with 100 votes. Mr. Abduba Dida had one vote while the rest had zero. Given what I have provided from the IEBC electronic records, it would be in order for Sen. Judith Pareno to withdraw and apologise to this House. Secondly, even if we were to stick and follow the line of thought that she wants us to pursue, the Standing Orders are very clear. If a Senator has sufficient reason to
Proceed, Sen. Olekina.
Kindly approach the Dispatch Box.
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Sen. Cheruiyot knows very well that it is wrong for him to give false information. The total number of votes per polling station was 1,400 votes and not 700 votes.
We no longer have streams. Every polling station had 700 votes only. No, you said 1,400 votes. It is on record.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at any one moment I did not mention any presidential candidate in my submissions yesterday. I would like you to refer to the HANSARD. I think they are only dreaming about the figures that they allude I attached to the President. I did not mention the name of the President. I only talked about polling stations that have more votes than the number of registered voters. I said that there is one polling station that had about 500 – I did not have the figures then. I had left the document somewhere. I talked about more votes than the registered voters. I did not at any one moment attribute a certain number to any presidential candidate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request you to refer to the HANSARD. May I respond to what they have said.
Owing to time constraints allow me to make a substantive ruling on this matter. Hon. Senators, I invite you to look at the provisions under Standing Order No.94. It states:- “94. Responsibility for statement of fact (1) A Senator shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts that the Senator alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate any such facts instantly. (2) If a Senator has sufficient reason to convince the Speaker that the Senator is unable to substantiate the allegations instantly, the Speaker shall require that such Senator substantiates the allegations not later than the next sitting day, failure to which the Senator shall be deemed to be disorderly within the meaning of Standing Order 110 (Disorderly conduct) unless the Senator withdraws the allegations and gives a suitable apology, if the Speaker so requires.”
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am law abiding. I know that I must prove my allegations. I am satisfied with your ruling that I can come back to this House with my certified documents proving that at Naituyupaki Primary School, there were more votes cast than the number of registered voters. I will substantiate that. Earlier I indicated that I have written a letter to have authenticated documents. At the moment I have the print-out which has to be certified by the IEBC. Once certified I will come to this House and prove my point. For now, I withdraw those statements. I apologise for not having the documents but of course there is another day for me to have them. I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Senators, for your information, I have looked at the Standing Orders on how to produce documents that can be accepted by a Speaker. There is no express provision whether you need a certified document but from where I sit you have to read these rules together with existing laws. Therefore, I make reference to the Evidence Act. So, if you have to bring a document, ensure it can stand the criteria set out by the Act which shall be our guiding law in respect to your intended production. I thank you. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Orders 28 and 29, the Senate do adjourn until Tuesday 10th October 2017. Since I spent most of my time earlier speaking of the reason we needed to adjourn, I do not wish to take much time saying a lot about this adjournment Motion. Yesterday we passed the Senate Calendar and agreed that we would adjourn and come back on 10th October. Part of the business that will take place during this place is that Senators will go back to their constituents to thank them. Most of them could not have gotten a chance since they were sworn in. I am sure that some will engage in the political activities going on, including the campaigns of the National Super Alliance (NASA) that will only be taking place on Mondays and Fridays, in the name of protests.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I wish to second this Motion and support it strongly. I thank the Senate Majority Leader for moving this Motion. We, definitely, need to go back to the source, which is the people who sent us to this House. Especially now with the very high political temperatures, the people out there must be wondering what their leaders are thinking. Particularly, I have very close friends out there and respect them a lot. I am sure your voters want to hear what you are thinking. As I support this Motion, I wish to urge the Hon. Senators that as we go for recess, let us please bring the temperatures down. Our people look up to us for guidance and we are capable of bringing the temperatures down. Think of the children out there and the youth. Today the university students were demonstrating. They are taking a leaf from their seniors who they have seen demonstrating. We have to tell our young people that this is not the way to go. The way to go is to reason together, debate, talk and obey rules and laws. I also want to commend the Joint Select Committee. We look forward to having the Members from the other side, so that they can sit together and reason. This is a House for debate and that is why we are here. We now have an opportunity to look at the electoral laws which were passed in haste. Now that we have very many lawyers in this House, I am sure they will give their input. When we look at the judgment, there is nothing that the Judges said to blame the commissioners or members of staff of the IEBC. They talked about the processes and irregularities. Maybe there were gaps in the law and that needs to be relooked at. There could not be a better time than this for the Joint Select Committee to do that. Let us not put a blanket on these amendments. Let us look at each one of them and see the value in each one of them. I was elected quite a few times in Dagoreti and know that one of the rules is recount. You do not just repeat an election. I was actually horrified and surprised when I heard that the elections should be repeated even before recounting the votes. The judges showed that nobody complained about the polling itself. That was supposed to be clear and straight. Nobody was denied an opportunity to vote and put the ballot papers in the
. So, we can only take what was in the debe as the correct position. That is why the electoral law provided that, first, we should have a recount. This did not happen. It is only right to seal that loophole with a law. The others were of course the processes which involve the law. I do not think we should be afraid to look at the law. Some of the laws were passed very late in the day during the 11th Parliament. Also there were many cases that went to court. So, it is not late to tidy the election laws. After being told to repeat the election, we should find out whether the law is right. Is there something we should do about this? It would be different if we were changing fundamental areas.
Any Senator who wants to contribute will get seven minutes so that we can give opportunity to as many Senators as possible taking into account that we only have thirty minutes before we conclude our business.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to personally oppose that we should adjourn this House. We just came in the other day. We were sworn in, we went for induction for a whole week and have just come in for two days. We have not even learnt the ropes of this House as to how we are supposed to conduct ourselves as Senators. You did a very good induction which will assist us to perform our duties well but before we even start to practice, the House is adjourned. I oppose this strongly. What is the reason for adjournment? I have heard the elaborate support by Sen. Mugo and all she has hinted at is that we are adjourning so that we have the select Committee from what I understood. I stand to be corrected. Sen. Murkomen said we are going so that NASA can go to their campaigns so that we can--- but the gist of it is that this House is being adjourned so that we give time to the Select Committee to go and mutilate the election laws, the very Constitution that is the basis of this nation. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have looked at the proposed amendments to the election law and I realise that the powers of the Chairperson of IEBC will be reduced. That is my understanding and I stand to be corrected. However, we will have reduced the powers of the Chairman of the IEBC. That is my understanding of the proposals that are being made. The second proposal is to reduce the quorum of IEBC and any three of them can now do anything. The other amendment that is being proposed is to use the manual way as a back-up for our elections when we had embraced the electronic way to avoid things that happened even in 2007 and it was proposed by the Kriegler Commission that we go electronic. That is why this House is going on recess. We are going to remove the footprints that will show us how to get free and fair elections. If this House is adjourning not to go and do a service that is anchored in the Constitution to protect the laws that we have passed and the supremacy of the Constitution, to reduce the quorum of bodies that have been created and quorum given by the Constitution, then I shudder that I would not myself want to participate in that process. I am happy that we have honourable Senators who have been proposed to go and sit in that Committee to do those things that they are proposing to do. Hon. Senators, Kenya belongs to all of us, and the Constitution was done by Kenyans. We ask you to go sit down and do what is expected by Kenyans lest you will be judged harshly by history. Finally, Sen. Mugo has talked about violence. None of us would want to see even an iota of violence in this country. We want justice for the people of Kenya. We want free and fair treatment of each one of us. Be assured that during this recess, towards whatever election date that will come, for us, we need reforms and not violence. We will go ahead. We have been talking about peaceful demonstrations for reforms. We are not talking about violence and we shall not participate in any way. The welfare of this country is in the hands of those that area going to look into those laws. I beg to oppose.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support that we adjourn. The reason we are adjourning is because a constitutional body ruled that we have a repeat of the election. We, as Senators, we took oath to protect the Constitution. Therefore, anybody holding a different view should know that the Constitution is supreme in this country. We need to go and talk to our constituents and Kenyans. We seem to think that this country is a theatre and therefore are advocating for violence. We have witnessed violence in this country before and other countries which end up with people dying. We tend to think that violence happened somewhere in the North Pole and not around us. Therefore, I would like to appeal to this House and to the leaders of this country, and I stand to be corrected, it is a sin for anybody to perpetuate words or actions that can lead this country to violence. It is a bit worrying because of the high temperature we have put into our people, especially the youth. We have youths that are vulnerable with no employment and who are frustrated. Some people preach that they have been denied justice and their rights in this country. We may think demonstration is a casual affair. Irrespective of the intentions, once we start it and it gets out of hand, none of us will be spared. It is the responsibility of leaders of this country to preach peace. I call upon the leaders of both Houses to be careful on their utterances because we are provoking people and they are listening. What has happened is that the Kenyans are now divided down the middle. There is a definite line when you listen to the two corners. Therefore, it is upon us, as leaders, who took the oath to serve all Kenyans to be responsible. Could we shift from what we have been doing? I do not support the view that we are adjourning so that we sit somewhere and mutilate the Constitution. The Temporary Speaker, Sir, the amendments being proposed here emanate from the ruling of the Supreme Court. That is why our country is in the current situation. I do believe that we, as leaders, have a duty to give our people hope. We should not divide them and incite them to violence for our selfish ends. As we adjourn, every one of us should go and utilise this time to preach peace to their constituents. We preach to them to obey the Constitution and the laws. I hope all of us, as leaders, will do good for the sake of this nation.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are living in very interesting times. In this country, in times when something is done wrong, people always want to get a quick fix. As we adjourn since we do not have a choice, some of us will take this time to educate our constituents on the dangers that we are facing. The dangers which are being brought about by a Government which I believe has got an interest of widening the gap between the rich and the poor. It is sad. I have realised that when you look at the penal code, there are certain provisions or articles that have not been used for a very long time. The last time they were used is during the Moi era; Subversion - Article 77. There is a threat to freedom of speech where you cannot say anything otherwise you are subjected to an arrest. You cannot say anything that you hate or despise or you feel that it is taking us back about this country or Government.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The hon. Senator has continuously insinuated and put intentions on Members who have supported the adjournment. He has said we should not stand here to say we will talk to our constituents on issues of violence. Finally, he has stated that we have been forced to pass amendments to the election laws, which we will be debating. We were elected by our constituents. Therefore, is the hon. Member in order to insinuate without substantiating, that we do not have our own freedom and that there is some authority somewhere ordering us? Could he substantiate and tell us who this authority is? He should also table the evidence regarding this claim.
Hon. Senator, you will give a brief reply to that because you have only one minute left. Or were you done with your contribution?
Use one minute to respond to his point of order before I make a ruling.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I respond to the Hon. Member, who is also my good friend, Eng. Maina, I would like to know under which Standing Order he is raising his point of order, so that I can substantiate what I was saying.
Hon Member, if I may go back to my earlier ruling on points of order, I ruled that I shall be relaxed on the application of Standing Order 87(I). Therefore, I will not require Members to state the Standing Orders they will be raising their points of order on, because we are still on the learning curve. If I was to do that, I will limit and whittle down debate. Therefore, allow me to excuse the Senator from that requirement. However, going forward, once we are here long enough, we shall be strict on adherence to House procedures. Be that as it may, Hon. Members, allow me to refer you Stranding Order No. 87 on points of orders. It is long one but I have to read it, because many Members have raised issues. It reads: “(1) Any Senator may raise a point of order at any time during the speech of another Senator stating that the Senator raises a point of order and that Senator shall be required to indicate the Standing Order upon which the point of order is based.” So, yes, I agree that it is provided for but I have relaxed this rule. Standing Order No.87(2) states that: “(2) When a Senator raises a point of order during the speech of another Senator, the Senator who was speaking shall thereupon resume his or her seat and the Senator raising the point of order shall do likewise when he or she has concluded his or her submission, but no other Senator may, except by leave of the Speaker, speak on the point of order. (3) The Speaker shall either give a decision on the point of order forthwith or announce that the decision is deferred for consideration after which the Senator who was speaking at the time the point of order was raised may continue to speak. (4) The Speaker or the Chairperson shall order any Senator who unnecessarily and persistently interrupts proceedings or consults loudly and disruptively to withdraw from the Chamber and Standing Order 110 (Disorderly conduct) shall apply to any such Senator.” What I am saying is that we need to understand these provisions so that we do not raise vexatious or frivolous points of order. I think the point that was raised by my colleague here was somehow valid but be it as it may, I would urge Members not to raise frivolous points of order. I will allow Members to ventilate and canvass their points without a lot of interruptions. Otherwise, if I were to strictly enforce Standing Order No.87(4), I would be compelled to throw out Senators. So, in reply to his issue, I rule you out of order. He was just canvassing his point. There is nowhere in the Standing Orders that prohibits what he was saying. Therefore, I rule that he was right. I will allow you 30 seconds only because we have several Members who want to speak.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you should have been generous enough to give me one minute. Given that you have given me 30 seconds, I just want to conclude by urging honourable Members to remember when they go home that this is a
Point of information.
Do you want to be informed Senator?
Do I have a right to reject the information?
Yes you have the right.
I reject the information.
But your time is up.
But I have been interrupted.
Notwithstanding your speech, your time is up. Hon. Senators, I have four requests from Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud, Sen. Cherargei, Sen. Seneta and Sen. Mwangi. I propose that each of you have one minute because of time. Let us have Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion. Yesterday we passed the Senate Calendar in accordance with Standing Order No.29 and our friends from that side were not there. In fact, they did not contribute to the Calendar which was passed yesterday and should be gazetted soon. So, the Motion for Adjournment is in accordance with the Calendar. We are not adjourning because we are going to do what our friends have said. In fact, yesterday we adjourned even before this Motion came to the Floor of the House. The reason for that was elaborate; that we have to go back to our counties to set up our offices and also be involved in setting the development agenda. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the laws we alluded to were enacted by the previous Parliament. These were the results of the Joint Select Committee led by Sen. Orengo and Sen. Murungi by then. I was a Member of that committee and that law was brought to the attention of both Houses. There was an urgent need for amendment from both Houses but we were asked not to change even a comma or full stop and now this is the time. I urge Members---
Thank you Senator, your time is up. Sen. Cherargei, before you make your contribution, I would like to draw your attention to Standing Order No.29(3) which I earlier read to you. It states that:- “On a day when the Senate is scheduled to adjourn to a day other than the next normal sitting day in accordance with the calendar, the Senate Majority Leader or another member of the Senate Business Committee shall move a Motion of adjournment which shall be debated for not more than two hours after which the Senate shall adjourn without question put.” The point is that there will be no voting on this one. So, you will have one minute.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Adjournment Motion and I want to say that this time we are going for recess is the time to go and reflect and also interact with our constituents and to update ourselves with the happenings on the ground in our counties. Secondly, this is the right time to use much of our time to campaign. However, I want to urge that we use this time to at least preach peace. This is an opportunity to interact with the people and let them understand what is going on. This is because we
Yes, Sen. Seneta.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also want to support this Motion and urge my colleagues that as we go back to our counties, we should preach peace and unity and also show a good example to our young people. I am also wishing them all the best as they go to their counties for the one week recess.
Yes, Sen. Mwangi.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg you give me five minutes. I support this Motion because there are many events in the country and we need to participate in some of them and particularly campaigning for the presidential candidates. I would like to say that we are not doing this blindly. We are the same people who fought for democratisation of this country in those years when Hon. Raila Odinga, the former President Mwai Kibaki and ourselves were on the streets every day. We are principled people. We are not people who can do something blindly. We have been doing legislative work for a while now and---
It was only one minute and I had given a direction. You are not supposed to speak because you had already spoken on this Motion. Sen. Pareno, what is your Point of Order?
On a Point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I remember in the induction course, you told us - I am looking at the rules - that we should at all times have 15 Members in the Senate for us to be able to be properly convened. I have looked around and I do not think we have enough Members to form a quorum for this business. I therefore seek to be guided by you.
Thank you for that point of order. It is a valid point of order but the only problem is that you are inviting me to make the ruling past time. therefore, we rise.