Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to table a Petition on behalf of community conservancies. The Petition to the Senate is Pursuant to Article 119 of the Constitution and Part xxv of the Senate Standing Orders concerning financial/budgetary support to wildlife conservancies for sustainable conservation and community development. We, the undersigned citizens of the Republic of Kenya and representatives of the wildlife conservancies across the country draw the attention of the Senate to the following:- THAT there are over 160 community and private conservancies spread across 28 counties within which most of the country’s biodiversity hotspots of Northern Kenya, Maasai Mara, Amboseli, Tsavo, Mount Kenya area, Athi-Kapiti plains, Rift Valley Lakes, Western Kenya and the Coastal Belt are located. THAT the above biodiversity hotspots are Kenya’s key wildlife areas in form of savannas, grasslands, forests and wetlands, whose contribution to the national economy mainly through wildlife tourism, life supporting ecosystem services and development of local livelihoods and infrastructure has been significant. THAT the biodiversity areas are under constant threat of depletion and extinction owing to pressure to serve the needs of increasing human population and subsequent needs, including settlements, food, industrial and infrastructural development and, more so, from effects of climate change. THAT the loss of biodiversity poses dire risks to the nation manifested in food insecurity, loss of tourism earnings for the country, marginalization of local communities and poverty due to lost livelihoods and resource conflicts among local communities who compete for the scarce natural resources. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order 225, I shall now allow comments, observations or clarifications in relation to the Petition for not more than 30 minutes. Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The petition by Sen. Halake is very important, but it might escape the attention of people who do not love wildlife – like me – and the conservancies around the country. For those who love wildlife, if you want to see the white rhinos, properly conserved, you will find them in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I congratulate my sister for coming up with this Petition. However, let me speak from the point of view of the representative of the members of the public since we are here to represent them. The Petition is good and timely, but there are certain things that need to be tied, especially in the prayer where we need to include the communities in the management of conservancies. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I see a lot of interest, I will limit the time to three minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Petition. We should take this conservancy issue to a higher level. I feel that we are putting a lot of premium on conserving wildlife while a similar high premium is not put on the lives of those communities that live with the wildlife, the environment and property. We notice that a few months ago, there was a threat by the people who live with these animals. They said they would kill the animals until they stop attacking their property. Some of us wake up to animals around our homes every single day. The animals that we are being asked to put in conservancies take water, graze and even lick salt with our domestic animals. We live daily with these animals but there is no compensation The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to speak on this Petition. I thank Sen. Halake for bringing this Petition at this moment in time. I have a very different idea on how the conservancies should be managed and funded. The most critical thing that I must appreciate is that this Petition gives us an opportunity to interact and to interrogate the manner in which the management of these conservancies relates with the people that live within those surroundings. It is important to say from the onset that as much as we agree that these conservancies are important and they require to be given such support, it is also important to note that most of these conservancies are private enterprises. They are businesses for individuals. As a Committee that will be looking into this matter, we will see what these conservancies do to the people who are supposed to benefit from their existence as part of their Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR). We will want to know what they exactly do in those areas. There is no doubt that conservancies attract a lot of donor funding. As we look into this matter to see whether we can generate money from the national Government to supplement the revenue they raise out of their existence, we must be in a position to understand how these private businesses can be more accountable in disclosing the amount of revenue they collect and what percentage is shared with the national Government and county governments. We have to know how much revenue they contribute to the Exchequer. In will be important, as a way of encourage them as a Committee, to propose a framework that will allow then to get financial support without having to tax the national Government and county governments in terms of direct funding. I would want a situation The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Your time is up. Sen. Olekina Ladema.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important Petition that I support. Coming from Narok, I know that the defunct Narok County Council used to contribute 19 per cent of the revenue collected from the Maasai Mara Game Reserve to the communities surrounding the game park. Over time, those communities came together and formed their own private conservancies. We now have other community conservancies and I agree with Sen. Halake that they need to be given a lot of support. One of the roles of the conservancies is to support education. I come from Maasai region and went to school courtesy of the money that was generated from those conservancies. The 19 per cent that was being given to the communities around the park is what helped me go to school. However, there are various things that we have to take into consideration. There are private conservancies in this country that do not benefit the local communities. There is a game park that, overall, helps the entire country given that our game parks are one of the highest foreign exchange earners of this country. On the issue of community conservancies, a lot of things are changing. The way people, for example the Maasai, lived before has changed. They used to keep tens of thousands of livestock. Now, because of the rapid environmental changes that have taken place, the numbers have reduced. People who live next to the game parks, as a way of making money, join the private conservancies. I concur with my colleagues who said that in most cases, the citizens do not benefit. I want to encourage the Committee that will look into this issue of how county governments and the national Government can support these private conservancies to come up with suggestions that can encourage people who own land around the conservancies to live together and set aside the huge chunks of land. When this is done, it will help the entire ecosystem and reduce the human-wildlife conflict. This can also be taken in as economic development. With regard to Maasai Mara, for instance, I get calls every day from the locals asking me to buy their land because they cannot use it. This is a matter that I would like to see taken seriously, so that the locals can benefit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Let us have, Sen. Haji Farhiya.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to support this Petition. Let us assume that we want to conserve the environment, our animals and our heritage. All these will need funds. With the pilferage that is ongoing, we should not lose focus in fighting corruption, so that we have enough money that will ensure that our animals are conserved, people are protected. Enough funds should also be set aside for the communities living around the conservancies to benefit. Thank you.

Sen. Nderitu John Kinyua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Sen. Halake for bringing this Petition. From the outset, Laikipia is the home of conservancies. We have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Poghisio.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to support this Petition and request the Committee that will deal with this Petition to find the best ways of funding these conservancies. Right now, it is the well-wishers and donors who fund conservancies. This makes it difficult for the locals to participate. So, I would like to see that the conservancies are used to improve the lives of the people living around them. They should be centers through which the local people can begin to understand the value of wildlife and the environment, so that they can conserve them. It is also a way of devolving and making sure that monies trickle down to the people. The only caution I want to give, as the Committee will be looking at this matter, is that sometimes the appointment of the management of these conservancies needs to be looked at. It should not be politicised, but based on merit, so that the people who are appointed are the actual conservationists. If we get the right people to run our conservancies, it will be a good way of bringing communities together and raising awareness, especially in areas where we have wildlife. I support and request the Committee to expedite this. West Pokot County is part of the area where there are conservancies and we are beginning to care about wildlife and catching up with the rest of the counties which have conservancies.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to confirm that if this Petition is brought to our Committee, we will deal with it. However, let me also inform the House that we are on it already. Through a Statement by Sen. Mwaruma, last month, we visited Taita-Taveta County. The issues were about human-wildlifeconflict. We learnt is that there is a lot that needs to be done when it comes to wildlife and human beings. All those The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to make a bit of distinction between the Petition before us on the issue of human-wildlife conflict and the issue of private and community conservancies. We are asking for support for community owned, created and run conservancies and not the private conservancies that my colleague from Laikipia County has mentioned, like Sweet Waters and such. Kindly note the distinction.

Okay. That was a clarification. Sen. Waqo, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the Petitioner, Sen. Halake. Thank you for coming up with this. I come from a county that has three conservancy areas. From my childhood, I have known the conflict between the residents there, animals and the rangers. I support this fully because this Petition will solve the issues that have been there. In supporting, I ask that we and the Committee give it the proper attention that it deserves. Let us fight so that proper funding can be given and we take care of all thestakeholders. At the end of the day, Kenya will be better because we are their representatives.

Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.226(1) the Petition stands committed to the standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources. In terms of Standing Order No.226(2), the Committee is required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading the prayer, to respond to the petitioner by way of a report to the petitioner and laid on the Table of the Senate. Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make on visiting students

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 13th June, 2018: Report of the standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on the Petition by residents of Murang’a County regarding alleged impropriety in procurement of medical cover for staff working in the County Government.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to say that we received this Petition as a Committee. We dispensed with it first by inviting the complainant to come before the Committee and during our sitting, the Petitioner was the only one who availed himself. In the course of interviewing the Petitioner, the Committee came to the following conclusion:- The title of the Petition read: “Petition by Murang’a County Residents on Alleged Impropriety in Procurement of Medical Insurance Cover for Staff Working in County Governments”. There was nothing in the Petition to indicate that there was impropriety in Murang’a County. Rather, the Petitioner in general had a plea that the Senate finds time to investigate all the 47 counties based on the procurement in the past 10 months. The Committee concluded that, maybe, in future if the Committee will have time, we will invite the National Treasury, Public Procurement Regulatory Authority and the Public Procurement Administrative Review Board to shed light on how they are enforcing compliance with the public procurement and asset disposal laws and regulations by the counties. Thank you.

Next Order. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday 13th June, 2018: Report of the office of the Auditor General on the provision of mental healthcare services in Kenya December, 2017.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate Today, Wednesday 13th June, 2018: Report of the Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights on the Office of the County Attorney Bill (Senate Bill No.3 of 2018)

We move on to the next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, AWARE that the Senate is established by Article 93 of the Constitution and its main role as set out in Article 96 of the Constitution is to represent, serve and protect the interests of the counties and their governments; FURTHER AWARE that Senate plays a critical role in the linkage of the devolved government and the national Government; NOTING that since its inception the Senate has held its sittings in Nairobi with its Committees occasionally visiting the devolved governments on fact finding mission; COGNIZANT of the need to enhance the interaction between the Senate and county governments as a means of bringing the Senate closer to the counties and the general public; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, for the convenience of the House, I defer Order No. 7 on Statements to come after Order No.8 and 9.

Hon. Senators, we shall now proceed to vote. I direct that the Division Bell be rung for five minutes.

I now direct that the Doors be locked and the Bar be drawn

Sen. Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Faki, Mombasa County; Sen. Farhiya, Nairobi County; Sen. M. Kajwang’, Homa Bay County; Sen. Kibiru, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Kihika, Nakuru County; Sen. Kinyua, Laikipia County; Sen. (Dr.) Langat, Bomet County; Sen. Lelegwe, Samburu County; Sen. Loitiptip, Lamu County; Sen. Malalah, Kakamega County; Sen. (Dr.) Mbito, Trans Nzoia County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Mwaruma, Taita-Taveta County; Sen. Ndwiga, Embu County; Sen. Nyamunga, Kisumu County; Sen. Olekina, Narok County; Sen. Omogeni, Nyamira County ;Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri, Kisii County; Sen. Orengo, Siaya County; Sen. Poghisio, West Pokot County ; Sen. Seneta, Kajiado County; Sen. Wako, Busia County; and Sen. (Rev.)Waqo, Marsabit County.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:

Hon. Senators, I now direct that the doors be opened and Bar undrawn.

Next Order.

Hon. Senators, we are resuming business interrupted yesterday on The Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.14 of 2018.) I will proceed to put the Question since we went through all the Clauses yesterday. I now direct that the Division Bell be rung for one minute.

I now proceed to put the Question, that Clause 2, Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill. Please, vote now.

I call upon the Senators who have not voted to do so. The voting time has ended.

Hon. Senators, I now give results for the Division as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of The Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 14 of 2018) and its approval, thereof, without amendments.

The Temporary Chairperson of the Committee, please make the progress report.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 14 of 2018) and its approval, thereof, without amendments. I call upon, Sen. Kihika to second.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I second.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said Report.

The Mover, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that The Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 14 of 2018) be now read a third time. I request, Sen. James Orengo to second.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second. There is only one issue which would come clearer when my friend, the Senator for Narok County, would address you briefly. You would look at the appendix on page 283, Paragraph 2. The water towers there are mentioned but the Mau is not mentioned. It could be an oversight, but the Mau is one of the important water towers. It would have been wrong for us to delay this Bill merely on account of that omission. However, I would invite the House at some time in the future that when an amendment is called for in relation to Mau, the House will see the need to include Mau. This is an issue which at one time was a major political issue. It was even an election issue – the water tower. Since we have been talking the language of conservation and preserving the water towers, reality has now come back to us in the need to protect The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to comment on this particular issue of the water towers. During the debate on the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 14 of 2018), I raised my reservations. Even though I voted for the Bill, I did it with a very heavy heart because the Mau Forest was left out. I do not know why we become selective in protecting certain parts of the country and leaving other parts. We have a very serious problem in this country. Any time it rains, because of the destruction of the Mau Forest, Narok Town floods. The forest has been encroached. We have an opportunity to make amendments to the Division of Revenue Bill, but we have failed, as this House because we have been reduced by the National Treasury to rubberstamping. This is something which I hope we can amend. Although it is a little bit too late now, in future, it is something that this House should consider. We have really missed an opportunity to make changes and see what is happening. This is something that I take with a very heavy heart. I hope that next time when the National Treasury comes up with this Bill--- This is why I keep on saying that Parliament really ought to stamp its authority. We are being reduced to a rubberstamp. We do not even control our own budget. When are we ever going to be able to protect our water catchment areas? Mau forest has been left out. I have no problem with protecting Cherengani Hills or Mt. Elgon. However, Mau Forest is one of--- I know these are conditional grants that are in these amendments, but, seriously, when we think about these conditional grants, we ought to have prioritised the Mau Forest. There are over five rivers that drain their waters into Lake Victoria which is the source of River Nile. The way the forest has been encroached is shocking. A couple of months ago, we flew over the forest and noticed that it has been destroyed. I actually congratulate the 14 counties which have formed the Lake Victoria Economic Basin for having taken Mau Forest as their number one issue to be able to protect it. I hope that in future when the Division of Revenue Bill is brought before the Senate, we do not just simply vote for it. I had a very heavy heart voting for this. I knew we had a problem with numbers and I did not want to be blamed as a person who has refused to vote for the Bill for money not to go to counties. However, we should take notice. I am highly contemplating bringing in amendments so that the Mau Forest can be considered. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, we shall now proceed to vote and I direct that the Division Bell be rung for about three minutes.

Hon. Senators, I now direct that the Doors be locked and the Bars be drawn.

Hon. Senators, confirm that you are logged in.

Hon. Senators, you are now ready to vote. You have 60 seconds. The Senators who are not able to vote electronically can now come for assistance to vote manually.

Nil

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:- Ayes: 29 Noes: 0 Abstentions: 0 The “Ayes” have it.

I now direct that the doors be opened and the Bar undrawn.

Hon. Senators, as earlier directed we will now go back to Order No. 7.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No. 46 (2) (a) to make a Statement on a matter of concern. This is in relation to the arrest of fishermen and three Kenyan Administration Police (AP) officers in Lake Victoria, purportedly on a matter connected with fishing in the lake. On Monday, 11th June, 2018, three AP officers from Usenge in Bondo Constituency, Siaya County were arrested while on duty in Lake Victoria. Soldiers from Uganda pounced upon them, disarmed and arrested these police officers together with a number of fishermen, whose fishing boats were confiscated. The three AP officers and fishermen were taken to Bugiri Mainland Prison in Uganda. Madam Temporary Speaker, squabbles over fishing rights and fishing in Lake Victoria is not a new matter. In fact, late last year a group of local fishermen were arrested. At that time there was intervention by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and they were released. However, the unique feature of this latest incident is that policemen or rather soldiers from a friendly country - I understand they could be military officers - came into the Kenyan territory, disarmed police officers patrolling the lake and took away fishermen. They were detained for quite some time until they were released yesterday following protests, particularly amongst the people in Siaya County. Kenya has got a very small fraction of the lake. Kenya should demonstrate that they value this jewel; the small part of the Lake which is within the borders of Kenya. Uganda has a large part of the lake; Kenya’s portion of the lake is not even a quarter of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senator for Siaya for bringing this Statement. For many years, we as leaders who come from the region have been perceived as people who do not pursue the interests of our people, especially the fishermen on Migingo Island because the Government of Kenya has failed to have a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you. Hon. Senators, the level of interest is very high. This Statement by Sen. Orengo is under Standing Order No.46(2)(a). It is not like the usual statements that you are aware how they are sought and dispensed. I have more than 10 requests which we are not able to accommodate. So, I will give a few Senators a maximum of two minutes each for the reasons I have already given. Before that, I have a communication to make.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting students and teachers from Munyu High School in Nakuru County. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them and on behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. I thank you.

Senator for Nakuru, would you like to say something? I will allow you two minutes maximum.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to welcome the students and teachers from Munyu High School, Nakuru County. I am glad they made it to be here today. I believe they will sit for the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) at the end of the year and I am hopeful that they will do very well. I encourage them to study hard so that they appear on top. I hope this day will give them a good experience at the Senate, so that they also have something to look forward to or aspire to be if they wanted to be.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Concerning the Statement by Sen. Orengo, given the sensitivity of the matter, I will allow not more than two minutes each for the following Senators beginning with Sen. Olekina. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me two minutes to comment on this matter of sovereignty. It is sad that our Kenya police officers are being arrested by Ugandan military. If the Kenyan Government cannot protect our own police, it is time you asked me to bring 20 Maasai warriors to go and defend our territories.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Sen. Olekina! The roles of the defence of the nation are well defined in the Constitution.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my opinion is that if our country cannot defend its own citizens because the military of Uganda, which is a neighbouring country that we love laid ambush on people who are supposed to be protecting us, then what are we supposed to do? It is very sad. The newspapers reported that they were ambushed by the military. If the Government and the national security organs really care about Kenyans in Siaya County, then they should send the military so that the military faces another military. We are talking about Migingo, which I think is a 2,000 square kilometres island and one of the densely populated islands in this country---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order Senator. Did you say 2,000 square kilometres?

It is a small area which is densely populated. It is not even an acre. I am sorry about that.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): That is easier for you.

However, I am baffled, shocked and at a loss for words. We do not care about our Kenyan citizens. Let us not lie. We only care about corruption and protecting certain interests. The people in Siaya County are also human beings and they have to make a living. The newspapers reported that they were about seven. I remember last year there were 17 Kenyans who were arrested and detained in Uganda for quite a long time. Why are we---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you. Sen. Wetangula.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I request for five minutes?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Sen. Wetangula, today I am afraid not.

Order Sen. Cheruiyot!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have vital information that I want to put on record. This is not the first, the second or even the tenth time that Ugandans have arrested fishermen in Lake Victoria. This time round, they went beyond fishermen and arrested the police who were armed. Every time they arrest fishermen, they destroy their fishing gear and disable them from earning a living thereafter. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

As a Senator representing the lake region, Homa Bay County accounts for the greatest share of Kenya’s share of Lake Victoria. This is a story that we have been exposed to day in, day out. Today, it was Mageta and Hama islands. Every other day, you hear stories coming from Remba Island of how Kenyan fishermen are being harassed by Ugandan soldiers. Who should protect Kenyans from external aggression? It is clear in Article 42 of the Constitution that it is the military, but you will be surprised that there is no military in the area surrounding Lake Victoria. Probably with some token representation in Kisumu, there is no military presence and yet this is a border. This is a matter that we need to look at. Even as we think of military intervention and protection, we must be conscious of historical issues that have been there between Kenyans and Ugandans. The Abasuba; the community that I come from, is a mix of Ugandans and Kenyans who have lived together The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the sentiments expressed by Sen. Orengo and the other speakers on this matter. When we talk of sovereignty, we talk of a country being able to secure and protect its territory and citizens. It is pitiful that the people of Migingo Island are living under the fear of Ugandans. I think the Committee investigating this matter should come out clearly and state whether we have the kind of force we expect. If the policemen were arrested, then where is the security and safety of wananchi in Migingo Island? There is no question that MigingoIsland is an important part of Kenya. Any part of Kenya is an important part of Kenya and any Kenyan living anywhere needs protection. Sen.Wetangula has just told us how they spent money doing an international survey. Of what use was it? I thought it was supposed to be a mediation matter; that once the survey is finished, then the Ugandans should respect that decision. This is an indication of many things to come. This means that people from any country can walk into Kenya and do what they wish to do. We have Somalia on the other side; they walk in, do what they wish to do and they go back. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Statement from Sen. Orengo. It comes under Standing Order No.46(a) which is a Personal Statement on something which is very touching. It touches on the livelihood of the people who rely on fish. That is the only place they can get their livelihood but they are not able to. It is an issue that has been there probably for almost over 10 years and has not been adequately addressed. It seems to be an issue that the two countries cannot just put to rest, one way or the other. If it was only a political issue it would not have the implications that it has now because it touches on the livelihood of the people. When it gets to the level of Kenyan police being arrested by Ugandan police, this shows that this conflict has escalated to a point of urgency. Once you put people in a situation whereby they have to struggle for a livelihood, you cannot really control it. If they had other options, they probably would go for them, but in this instance, they cannot. This territorial issue is an issue that is touching on people’s livelihood and it is needs to be addressed very fast. It needs the security teams to come into place. We need to think of a Committee within the Senate which can address this issue. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I support strongly the Statement requested for by Sen. Orengo. I support what Sen. Wetangula has said by way of information because I was also privy to it. Let us not take this as a territorial issue because Migingo Island and all these islands are in Kenya. We should not be seen as admitting that there is a territorial dispute. These are our islands. From what Sen. Wetangula has said, I am aware that when the two teams begun doing their work, they discovered all these islands are within Kenya. From that point onwards, there was no cooperation from Uganda. So, we proceed on the basis that this is a Kenyan issue. I would like to appeal to the Government of Kenya to assert the rights of Kenyans over these islands. If we do not assert ourselves effectively, then over a prolonged period of time, the situation my change under the international law. It is true under the East African Community we have Lake Victoria Commission which protects the lake. Its headquarters is in Kisumu County. We also have the Lake Victoria Fisheries Commission which is headquartered in Njinja, Uganda. I would like these two commissions to be more proactive in dealing with this matter. I want also to appeal to the two Heads of States of Kenya and Uganda respectively not to allow these types of disputes to spoil the good relationship that exists between the two countries. Recently when President Museveni was in Busia together with our President, our Governor raised this issue and President Museveni promised to look into it so that it does not happen again. However, it happened again. Let the two Presidents come together and see how they can resolve the issue, once and for all.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I too have been privy to this saga of Migingo Island and Mageta Island where the fishermen have been fishing for a long time. We must understand and appreciate what Sen. M. Kajwang’ talked about. Besides the ethnicity and political divide between the two countries, there are also the economic interests. For example, Migingo Island is rich in various types of fish. It is important that we must establish our border integrity and our superiority, not in any level of being superior to any country, but our integrity. Everybody knows that Migingo Island and the surrounding islands solely belong to Kenya. That is not in dispute. This is because when the cartographic designers did their work and put beacons, the boundaries were clearly defined. Some people may have distorted one or two beacons, but the boundary is well defined. It is a high time that the Kenya Government, led by President Uhuru Kenyatta, established its presence in the way of military in Migingo Island. The Government should help the fishermen to realize their potential in fishing what rightfully belongs to Kenya. Fish resources are not just about Mbuta or the resources of Nile Perch that is being fought for on this small little island---

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support the statement by hon. Orengo. I want also to condemn this misfortunate and sad situation our country finds itself in, year in, year out. One wonders what becomes of a country where its neighbour raids her territory, arrests police officers and the country continue to do nothing about it. This is akin to a man who watches a stranger walk in his house, beat up his children, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Senator! You are completely out of order! Summarise your presentation?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was trying to ask the citizens of--

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Senator! Proceed forward.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, in my conclusion, I would like to urge the citizens of Nyanza to guard our territories if the policemen are unable.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Senator! The Constitution is clear on the sovereignty of the country and the mandate on the protection of that sovereignty. It is not on the people of Nyanza or the people of any part of this country, that mandate is elsewhere.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, well guided. I would like us, as advised by the British High Commission, to go into their archives and determine as to whether Migingo Island is in Kenya or in Uganda. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Where are these others requests coming from? We had concluded this matter for we have been at it for a while. I will give one minute each to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Pareno and Sen. Shiyonga and that will be all. They will speak in that order, beginning with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. One minute is more than enough. I support the request that as a Senate, we should start considering Article 5 of the Constitution where it says that:- “Kenya consists of a territory and territorial waters comprising Kenya on the effective date, and any additional territory and territorial water as defined by an Act of Parliament”. Therefore, Migingo Island should now be defined as a territory in Kenya in an Act of Parliament under Article 5. I am not certain whether we have an Act of Parliament under Article 5l, and that is the solution. I told you that a minute is enough.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order Senator. You did not have to tell me for you did not have an option. You had one minute and it had to be enough.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to contribute to this Statement and I must say that I am really disturbed. I want to ask our partner State, Uganda, what happened to the East Africa Community (EAC) integration processes; the coalition of the willing and the common market protocol where we are supposed to have free movement of goods; and people are even entitled to settle in any East African state. I listened to a speech by His Excellency Kaguta Museveni, the President of Uganda, where he said that there is no difference between a Ugandan and a Kenyan and he assured us of the EAC integration process and free movement. My question is; what is happening within the EAC integration? We have had cases where at one point, Kenyan cows were being sold and auctioned in Tanzania and the next minute, the security personnel were being arrested. I am disturbed about the integration of these partner States.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Sen. Shiyonga, I had already given you one minute.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Statement. It is a high time that the Ugandan Government respected the Kenyan Government. If they arrest our people, we should arrest their people and when they capture, we should also capture. If they release---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Senator. You must make your debate within the law.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am saying that because I am annoyed. It is a high time that the Ugandan Government gave respect to Kenyan citizens. I think that I am within the law because the senior counsel has just said so. We are neighbours and friends with the Ugandan Government but when it comes to the water in Migingo, they then become our greatest enemy. It is a high time that they respected this friendship.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order Senators.

Order Sen. Cheruiyot. Sen. Shiyonga has not asked for additional time. She has not.

Order Senators.

On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): What is out of order Sen. Wako?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Hon. Senator to point a finger at the Deputy Speaker? Is that in order?

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have not pointed my finger, I just used gestures.

I just did this.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order Senator. Who were you directing the gestures to?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they were just like this.

Can I continue Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): That is even worse because it is a combination of many things. Proceed, I will give you one more minute but avoid such gestures in future.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Uganda is our neighbour and it is a country that we respect a lot. In that regard, Uganda needs to respect our citizens The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Sen. Wamatangi, resume your seat. I gave a bit of time for Senators to contribute and make observations though strictly speaking, that is not anticipated in the Standing Orders. As you are aware, the Statement by the Senate Minority Leader, who is also the Senator for Siaya County, has been made under Standing Order No. 46(2)(a) which says:- “A Senator may make a statement on a county issue or an issue of general topical concern” If you read the following paragraphs, that Standing Order does not provide mechanisms nor does it have any requirements for observations or even further action other than saying that the Senator shall have a maximum of ten minutes. Of course, the Senator took approximately that amount of time and the other Senators have taken 20 minutes, if not more. Nevertheless, the matter raised by Sen. Orengo is a serious matter of great national concern and it touches on the security of our country and the territorial integrity of our nation. In particular, some of the Senators who have spoken provided useful information including the Senator for Bungoma, who has been a Minister for Foreign Affairs for Kenya before and the Senator for Busia, who has been the Attorney General and has been privy to this process. Having said that, I want to draw your attention to Standing Order No. 1, which you quote many times. Standing Order 1(2) says: “The decisions made in paragraph (1) shall be based on the Constitution of Kenya”--- It goes on and on, but I want to stop at the point of ‘the Constitution of Kenya.” In other words, this Standing Order is sometimes used to invoke precedents and customs, which come at the tail end. But at the very beginning of that Standing Order, the Speaker is empowered to make decisions, which are not specifically covered in the Standing Orders, if the matters in question have a constitutional import or relevance. I have in particular looked at two Articles of the Constitution. One is Article 94(2) on the role of Parliament. I have looked at this article, especially considering that in most cases when looking at the role of the Senate, the common thing is to run to Article 96, which is on the specific role of the Senate. But Article 94 captures the roles of the two Houses of Parliament. Article 94(2) says: The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I will defer this Order.

Order, Senators. We are now in the Committee of the Whole to consider The National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.8 0f 2017). We will move clause by clause.

The Division will be at the end.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in the proposed new section 4B (1) by inserting the words “or any other day designated by the Cabinet Secretary in the gazette” immediately after the words “during a public holiday.” The original text that I had proposed was for Kenyans to fly flags during public holidays only. This amendment expands that to any other day that the Cabinet Secretary may designate to fly flags by Kenyans in their residences, private homes and offices. Thank you.

Division will be at the end.

Division will be at the end.

Sen. Wako to move the amendment.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I move- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Division will be at the end.

Yes, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

.: Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 4- 4A. Section 5 of the principal Act is amended in Amendment subsection (1) by deleting the words “local of Section 5 authority” appearing immediately after the words of Cap. 99 “the area of a” and substituting therefor the words “county government”. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Division will be at the end.

I call the Mover, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., to move the amendment.

.: Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 4– Repeal of 4B. The principal Ac tis amended by repealing Section 6. Section 6 of Cap.99 The principal Act reads as follows- “No prosecution for only offence permissible under this act shall be instituted except with the previous sanction in writing of the Attorney- General.” Madam Temporary Chairperson and the rest of my colleagues, please, note that this is no longer the case in view of the new Constitution. The person who is in charge of the prosecution is the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) under Article 157. This clause is superfluous.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Division will be at the end.

Division will be at the end. Hon. Senators, as you can observe, we do not have the numbers to proceed to Division. I, therefore, ask the Mover to move for reporting for progress.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No.142, I beg to move- THAT, the Committee of the Whole reports progress on the consideration of the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.8 of 2017) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Senator! The Temporary Chairperson, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.8 of 2017) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow. I beg to report.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): What is happening, Temporary Chairperson?

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Certainly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the House agrees with the Committee on the said Report. I request Sen. Malalah to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Let us move on to the next Order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Hon. Senators, when debate on this Bill was interrupted, Sen. (Dr.) Kabaka had a remainder of 16 minutes. However, he is not here, but I can see a request by Sen. Wako.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to speak on this important debate. People may not realize how important this Bill is. The history of it starts from the last term. It was drafted by the current Governor of Nandi County. It was approved. He drafted it because as provided for by the Constitution, the Government Printer is under the national Government. The Government Printer only handles and gives priority to publications of the national Government. Although Bills have to be published by the Government Printer as provided for by the Constitution, there are also many publications which county governments ought to publish. For example, it is difficult to know who has been appointed as a member of the county executive. Currently, we learn from social media what the governor has done as far as official county matters are concerned. Having a County Printer will enable the county governor to publish the members of the county executive. One of the most important cardinals of our Constitution is public participation in decisions which affect the people. Currently, there is nothing the county governments or even the ward representatives can do other than have a site on social media to give people notices of meetings. The County Printer will be able to give the appropriate notices to people on venues of various meetings. Those who follow such debates will be able to read the county publication. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to add my voice to this important Bill. From the onset, this is a timely Bill because we need to support devolution in all aspects. It proposes to create an office to publish and print all official documents of the county governments. Therefore, with the spirit of devolution, we need to give all counties a mandate to publish their own documents from their counties rather than coming all the way to the Government Printer in Nairobi to print their official documents. This Bill also seeks to create an office that will advise county governments on how to print official documents. Therefore, counties will be able to print their own official documents. This Bill allows counties to have their own official rubber stamps rather than buying them from the streets of Nairobi, in River Road and so on. This will, therefore, mandate counties to have their rubber stamps and printers and is a very important Bill. In the spirit of devolution, we also need to help counties to access this printer within a short time rather than wasting a lot of time when we want to gazette names of boards and committees. These publications are needed every other time because our counties have a lot of work and also need to move fast in service delivery. Therefore, this Bill needs the support of this House and should be passed immediately.This will allow our counties to do their work fast without wasting a lot of time following a long queue at the Government Printer. It will also reduce a lot of expenses in counties and wasting of time piling their documents in Nairobi as they go there to seek for the services. I support.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Sen. Seneta. Let us have Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Bill and congratulate Sen. Were for bringing it.The basis of this Bill is hinged on the County The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I thank the Mover for coming up with this Bill. Devolution was meant to bring services closer to the people. I believe that this is one such Bill that will devolve the services of the Printer to the people in the counties. You can imagine the 47 counties all wanting their different publications from different areas to be done maybe in a day or a week. It would be speedy and efficient for us to have the county printers than all of us sending all our publications and everything that needs to be printed to the Government Printer in Nairobi. It will also be easier to supervise and take control of these processes when they are closer. Sending documents for publication all the way from Busia, Kajiado and Kisii counties to the Government Printer causes delays and lacks proper supervision. It takes a lot of time to submit, transmit, follow up and finally have a publication done. Therefore, a lot of problems will be solved by doing them at the county. I presume that it will even be less costly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Sen. Pareno! What is “411”?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just received a text from---

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order, Sen. Pareno! What is “411”?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a news alert. I am guided.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the news alert shows that there is a directive by His Excellency the President that all public bodies and entities should publish not only the tenders, but also the awards they are going to make. Look at the kind of bodies and entities that we are having in this country. There is only one entity that is doing publishing and printing. We need this service devolved, so that those that can be handled at national level can be handled there and the rest handled at the counties. It will help us realize faster service to the people. With regard to equitable distribution of information to the people, back in the villages, people do not know what is called the Kenya Gazette . They do not even know that these publications exist. In fact, when you tell them that there is a Kenya Gazette, they do not know about it. It is mostly known to lawyers who go to the Government Printer to get it or to those who work in the county executive. Having the County Printer will distribute this information quickly and in an equitable way to the people. In fact, having one centralized Printer has denied people information. They cannot access a lot of directives that have been done. Even yesterday, had it not been for social media, we would not have known that there was a declaration of a public holiday on Friday. We just saw it on social media. If you and I do not know, and we are here with those that publish-- “You” does not mean “Mr. Deputy Speaker.”

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Order! You are the only one who did not know. You cannot speak on behalf of everybody.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected. If I did not know as of yesterday, until I saw an alert in the social media that there is a public holiday, how would our villagers know? They are not able to access some of this public information that is gazetted or published which is meant for them. In fact, we are told, “Ignorance of the law is not defense.” So, even if you do not know some of these laws that are passed and you are ignorant about them, you will still have committed an offence. Our people will be better served with a County Printer where we will be able to disseminate this information. We will then be equitably saying that we can access our people and they will have a quick access to the relevant information that we pass. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Proceed, Sen. (Rev.) Waqo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this very important Bill and also appreciate the sponsor of the Bill for bringing it to the Senate. I support this Bill because, as we all know, our 47 counties need to be effective and efficient. Some of the conditions that are there will not help them to move very fast in whatever they are doing. However, this particular Bill proposes efficiency in their work and that is why I support it. In this Bill, you can clearly see that, in Clause 6 under Part II; Establishment of the Office of the County Printer, it has taken care of some very important areas. It will ensure that there will be no duplication in printing and publication of the documents because of the coordination or liaising well with the Government Printer. When it comes to employment of the officers under Clause 9(2), you can clearly see the way people should be appointed, the body that will recruit them and so on. All these are clearly indicated which takes care of any confusion that may take place and also the requirements of Chapter Six of the Constitution which is very good. Unfortunately, in the past, many Kenyans misused this because some of the people who applied for different jobs and even qualified, did not follow Chapter Six of the Constitution. I believe that with the current fight against corruption, we will be able to put all these in order so that we can place the right people in the right positions. This will also help and guide the Executive on the ground. It will also ensure that the counties do not employ their relatives, but employ qualified people who can do the work efficiently. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill and congratulate its sponsor. Thank you.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Very well. Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to comment on this very important Bill. In fact, this is the kind of legislation that we ought to be developing because, from the outset, they promote devolution. It is shameful that since we devolved or established the 47 counties, many of these counties keep coming to Nairobi to publish their Bills. I dare say that many of these counties are actually implementing laws that have not been published. This is contrary to what the County Government Act and the Constitution, particularly, Article 199, require us to do. Article 199 of the Constitution which talks about publication of county legislation says- “County legislation does not take effect unless published in the Gazette .” This means that all these legislations that have been implemented are illegal.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I want to applaud the Mover of this Bill. It is a very exciting Bill and the owner needs to be applauded. This Bill will help Kenyans to access services. It will enable individuals who are ignorant to access such services. It will also enable standardisation of documentation in all counties. When documents are produced at the county level, they will serve their clients without much delay. Madam Temporary Speaker, many of my colleagues have talked about how this Bill will help create employment opportunities to our people. When this Bill is passed, it will enable our youth with skills in this particular field to be employed. Devolution is all about creation of employment. Many of our youth will be employed in 47 counties to work in printing departments. This will help decongest Nairobi and other urban centres. The counties will be owners of their own Printers. That means that they will prioritise what they feel is important to be printed. I support this particular Bill because it will allow self-regulation of the counties. It will also open avenues for many other documents that our citizens do not know. People in different counties will be sensitised on provisions of this particular Bill even if it means in their mother tongues. Therefore, many people who do not know gazettement of documents such as land title deeds and employment will get to know. Every citizen will be sensitised and they will be able to see the documents physically rather than coming to crowd in Nairobi where those with disabilities could have problems. It will also enable persons in different counties know documents that go through the process of gazettement and printing. This is one of the Bills that I support. I laud the Mover of this Bill because it is something that has been waited for long. How I feel that the Mover, like my colleague The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senator, I see no other requests. I therefore ask the Mover to reply.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply. I would like to thank my colleague Senators who have greatly contributed to this Bill. With their contributions, they have enriched this Bill greatly. Members have suggested that we put a provision for costing of services to the public like preparation of the deed poll, estate administration, documentation and also title deeds. They also suggested that we should have a provision for vetting of the County Printer by the County Public Service Board (CPSB) and the staff of the Office of the County Printer to be sourced from the national Government Printer, so that we do not have a bloated workforce at the county level and, therefore, limit the number of workers in that Office. Members are also in agreement with me that this Bill, as Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. said, is anchored on all fours in the law. They agreed that there has been a gap in the law that this Bill will seek to fill successfully. Members also alluded to the fact that the Government Printer operates like a secret organisation and, therefore, subject to favouritism and all forms of corruption. With this Bill, there will be transparency, accountability, public participation and equitable distribution of information. Information sharing and the budget-making process in the counties will also be smoother. Right now, the delays create clogs in the process of budget-making. Members also suggested that we look at Cap.2 and how it will fit in and especially the role of the President and the interpretation of the term “Kenya Gazette ”. Members are in agreement that this Bill will enhance public participation and keeping the public informed in the spirit of transparency. Senators also suggested that we need to have an avenue to oversight or penalize the County Printer and that this should be done by either the county assembly, the County Executive Committee (CEC) member in charge or once we pass this Bill, the County Attorney can also do oversight. This Bill will also look into all the issues including qualifications of the County Printer. For example, the five years’ experience should be moved to seven years. This Bill will also offer a chance to consolidate and centralize ways in which publications at the county level are managed. I thank all Members who have enriched this Bill. As it moves to the next stage, we will incorporate all the ideas and enrich it further. The importance of this Bill has been stated very well by all Members in this House. Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.55(3), I request that putting of the question to this Bill be deferred to another day.

Hon. Senators, I order that the putting of the question on this Bill be deferred to tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Let us have the Chairperson of the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. From the outset, The Office of the County Attorney Bill is very important---

Order Senator! Kindly move the Bill.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the Bill.

Kindly move and read the title.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that The Office of the County Attorney Bill (Senate Bills No.3 of 2017) be read a Second Time.

Did I hear you say 2017?

I think there is a typo in my notes and I beg your pardon. It should be The Office of the County Attorney Bill (Senate Bills No.3 of 2018). Sorry for that. I agree that devolution has come a long way and there are many laws that we need to put in place to ensure we oil the wheels of devolution in this country.

Order, Senator! Kindly, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, protect me from distraction of Members. They should keep their consultations at the lowest levels possible so that they do not distract my attention. I agree that under the objects of Article 174, we need to ensure that some of these functions are devolved properly. This Bill will ensure that it facilitates devolution to the lowest level possible as envisaged under 174 of the Constitution. In the interest of ensuring that we dispense justice, it is important that Kenyans understand that it is not only about courts of law or the Judiciary; justice is an all round. That is why in this Bill we are trying to ensure that we have the offices of the County Attorney, County Solicitor and the County Legal Advisor. Madam Temporary Speaker, you will remember that most counties are struggling with pending bills amounting to around Kshs90 billion. One of the largest pending bills in the counties is the legal fees that the lawyers charge because we do not have a legal framework. We have to appreciate that most counties have their own format of legislation on how to hire county legal advisors, county attorneys or county solicitors. Therefore, the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the hon. Senator to keep demeaning the position of women whenever they are given any position? We have heard this and we are fed up with it. We will not sit here and hear people talking about women and appointing girlfriends. Let us talk about boyfriends too if there is such a thing. Let us talk about professionals. Let us talk about the work that women put in the political parties. Let us not be embarrassed because we are in positions and we are going to be referred to us girlfriends. Girl friend of whom? You mean there are so many men who need girlfriends right, left and centre? Is he in order? Can he apologise and retract that statement and respect the women of Kenya? Let me also take this opportunity to congratulate you. This is the first time I am making my contribution when you are on the Chair. Congratulations. Let him apologise and withdraw.

Sen. Cherargei, you have some homework. You either substantiate these sexual favours you are talking about or you withdraw.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have tremendous respect for all women leaders in this country. I know that Sen. (Dr.) Zani has been one of the trailblazers in championing many issues of women in this country. Therefore, I was not making reference in bad faith; it is in the public domain. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! You know the rules of this House. If you make such a serious allegation, it must be substantiated or withdrawn. If you are aware of any sexual favours and have evidence, then we will take it. However, if you do not have evidence, you cannot talk about ‘public domain.’ We are a House of rules and you have to prove by substantiating or withdrawing your remarks.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I withdraw and apologize. I respect all the women leaders and I am proud of them. They do not need to worry because the future is very bright. Can I proceed now?

You can proceed but, please, withdraw your statement. Sen.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have withdrawn and apologized; I think you were consulting with the Clerks-at-the-Table. I wish all our women well and I am proud of them.

Thank you. Sen.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was still highlighting. We have provided for procedure on appointment and qualification. We have tried to be magnanimous as a Committee. There were suggestions of five or seven years and we realized that it is a common practice that when some of these counsels become senior, they tend not to be attracted to public appointments. Therefore, for all counties to get proper qualifications, we have stated that they should have at least seven years in practice. Therefore, one should be an advocate of the High Court Madam Temporary Speaker, I know that there was a debate that one can be a legal practitioner or a paralegal because most counties which are far-flung like the North Eastern counties, among others, have a challenge of human resource. Therefore, it was argued that we should just have somebody with a legal background. However, we insisted that it should be an advocate of the High Court, so that they can assist on legal matters. It will be very sad to have a County Attorney who cannot go to court, because it would create a loophole where counties, in their spending, will outsource legal services. Madam Temporary Speaker, one important point is that the appointment should meet the requirements of Chapter Six of the Constitution as well as the Leadership and Integrity Act. There is public pressure because of the many corruption cases that we are facing. Therefore, we should try as much as possible to have people of integrity in office. This office is very sensitive because it will provide legal direction and ensure that there is legal representation. This office will also assist in legal legislative processes in our county assemblies and executives. It is also the office that will provide necessary advice to the governor. Therefore, we need somebody of high integrity who meets the necessary threshold going forward. It should be a common and standard practice everywhere to ensure that we adhere to Chapter Six of the Constitution on Leadership and Integrity. That has been the challenge. Last week the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC), led by the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Sen. Cherargei, you will have balance of 35 minutes to move the Bill when it next appears in the Order Paper.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The House, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 14th June, 2018 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.