Hon. Senators, I am informed that we now have quorum. Senator for Nandi County, kindly, take your seat.

Clerk, proceed to the call the first Order.

Sen. Mandago and Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, kindly, take your seats so that I can make this Communication.

Hon. Senators at the rise of the House, after the morning sitting, I had indeed indicated that I was going to deliver my ruling this afternoon. The ruling is not ready yet, it is being typed. Therefore, I invoke Standing Order No.1 to suspend the sitting for half an hour, to allow the ruling to be typed. Once we reconvene, I will be in a position to deliver that ruling.

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As you may have noticed, we cannot proceed unless we dispense with the matters that had been raised in the form of preliminary objections. Hon. Senators, kindly, be upstanding. This sitting is suspended for half-an-hour. We shall reconvene after that time.

Order, Hon. Senators, welcome back. Clerk, kindly, proceed to call the first Order.

Hon. Senators, we will now hear evidence from the County Assembly. You have four hours for evidence-in-chief, cross-examination and re- examination.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that magnanimous ruling. We therefore wish to call our first witness, who happens to be the complainant in this case, one Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati. I will ask my learned friend, Mr. Mutuma, to lead the witness.

Where is your witness, County Assembly?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have our witness, Mr. Dennis Mokaya.

Where is he? Has he disappeared? Have you confirmed his presence?

He is within the precincts of Parliament.

Counsel, just to remind you that your time is running.

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

So, as you delay in calling your first witness, just get to know your time is running.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are now ready with our witness.

You may proceed to swear in the witness.

Good afternoon, Mr. Mokaya?

Good afternoon to you.

Kindly state your full name for the record.

My name is Dennis Mokaya Misati.

Which county do you come from?

I come from Nyamira County.

Thank you. Are you the complainant in this Senate, touching on matters of impeachment of the Deputy Governor of Kisii County?

Yes, I am.

Do you recall if you swore an affidavit in support of your allegation? Confirm whether it is the one

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appearing at Page 248 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents? Can you confirm that?

Yes, I did.

That is your affidavit?

Yes.

Do you want to abide by all the contents appearing in that affidavit and submit them as evidence before this House?

Yes.

Thank you. Now, very briefly, Mr. Mokaya, you have made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor that led to his impeachment.

Sorry?

I am putting it to you that you made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor of Kisii that led to his impeachment. Is that correct?

Yes, I did.

I want to refer you to a letter that appears at Page one of the bundle of documents of the County Assembly of Kisii. Can you confirm whether that---

Clerk, could the microphones be a bit louder so that we can hear both the counsel and the witness? Proceed, counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Kindly, confirm that there is a letter appearing at Page 1---

Counsel, as you lead your witness through evidence- in-chief, if you refer to any document, be specific on the volume and the page so that Senators can follow.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am referring to Volume 1 of the County Assembly’s document at page 1. Mr. Dennis Mokaya, is that your statement?

Yes, it is.

Does it bear your signature at the end on page 5?

Yes.

Do you wish to abide by the contents of that statement?

Yes, I do.

Now, very briefly, your allegation touches on the issue of bribery directed to the Deputy Governor of Kisii, whereby you allege that you issued some money to him with a promise to get a job position. Is that your evidence before this Senate?

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Yes.

Mr. Mokaya tell us what position were you interested in at the County Government of Kisii.

I applied for the position of commercial manager.

Commercial manager?

Yes.

Did you have the qualifications for that position?

Yes, I did.

What is your professional background?

I am a graduate with a Bachelor of Commerce, majoring in accounting.

You are an accountant by profession?

Yes.

How did you come to know about that position that was advertised?

The position was brought to my attention by my father who told me there was an advertisement and asked me to go ahead and submit an application.

What is the name of your father?

Joseph Dowell Misati.

Mr. Joseph Misati?

Yes.

You are aware that your father is a witness appearing for the Deputy Governor, correct?

Yes.

So, your father brought to your attention the vacancy at Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO) Limited. Is that right?

Yes.

What did your father tell you?

He told me to look at the website and do an application.

When was that?

It was around mid April.

Did you apply for that vacancy?

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Yes. I went to their website, did the application, attached all the documents and awaited for any communication.

Are you able to point to hon. Senators the advertisement that was done by Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO)? At what page? Can you look at Page No.266 and confirm whether that is the advertisement you are talking about? Hon. Senators, again, I am referring to Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents at Page No.266. Can you confirm that that was the advertisement?

Yes, on Page No.266.

When your father approached you and advised you to apply for that vacancy, did he tell you that he had made any arrangements or what was his advice to you in respect to that position?

He told me to make an application for the job then he will follow it up with the Deputy Governor.

When you say follow up, what do you mean? What kind of follow up did he talk to you about? Was that conversation candid? If it was, kindly, tell the House specifically what your father told you the nature of the follow up would be.

By the time I was doing the application, I was still in Nairobi City County doing my business. When I was called for an interview, when I went home, it is when I got to know the whole deal, that the Deputy Governor will help us secure the vacancy.

Okay. How was the Deputy Governor supposed to help in securing the job vacancy?

I was informed that the Deputy Governor was in good terms with the management and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of GWASCO, so it will be easier for any assistance.

You have intimated that you were at the time working at your business in Nairobi City County. Kindly tell us what kind of business you were doing in Nairobi City County.

Personally, I was working with a company called “Together as One”, as a marketer. I had a joint business with my wife, which was a salon/ kinyozi . We were also refilling gas cylinders.

Where was that business situated in Nairobi City County?

Our business was located in Ruai town, which was opposite Naivas Supermarket.

Who was running that business?

My wife.

What is the name of your wife?

Everlyne Nyaboke.

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Subsequently to that, you did apply for the position?

Yes, I did.

Do you remember what date you applied for the position?

It was around mid April.

Were you shortlisted as an applicant?

Yes, I was shortlisted and invited for an interview.

You were invited for an interview?

Yes.

Confirm that what appears at Page No.35 of the Deputy Governor's response is a schedule of appearances of shortlisted candidates. Hon. Senators, the document is labelled as DG, at Page No.35.

Yes, these were the shortlisted candidates.

Confirm that that is the schedule of appearances for interviewees.

Yes.

Does your name appear in that schedule of appearance?

Yes, my name is at number four.

What date were you scheduled to appear?

It was date 25th.

25th of which month?

May.

25th of May?

Yes.

Now, prior to the shortlisting and subsequent interview, did you make any other arrangements to secure the job opportunity?

Yes.

Proceed. What kind of arrangement did you make?

After the interview, I was at home with my parents. The Deputy Governor called my dad and told him that he will help him secure the position. He called us to his residence to make those arrangements.

When you talk about his residence, where is that residence?

Around Keumbu.

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Keumbu is in Kisii County?

Yes.

Were you part of that meeting between your dad and the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I was.

Were you privy to the conversation between the Deputy Governor and your father?

No, we sat at a distance while the Deputy Governor and my dad had a talk.

What did you understand was the outcome of the discussion between the Deputy Governor and your father?

It was an agreement that we pay the sum of Kshs800,000 for him to enable secure the vacancy.

What was the Kshs800,000 supposed to do? Who were the beneficiaries of the Kshs800,000 as per the conversation between your father and the Deputy Governor?

Initially, as I had said, he said he was in touch with the CEO of GWASCO, so he was the one who will enable us get the vacancy.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Are you referring to the CEO or the MD of the company?

The CEO or MD, is that not the same thing?

Correct. Did you have the money at the time? If you had, how had you raised that money?

At the time of visiting, we were aware he will demand some amount. On agreeing on the amount that we will submit, we had raised the money earlier. I was operating a salon at Ruai so after the interview, it was guaranteed that the Deputy Governor, being in his position, was able to get us the job. My wife and I sold the salon, which we were operating at Ruai. We sold it to Mr. Peter Mungai at a sum of Kshs500,000, which is an agreement that we sold the salon.

Is that the agreement appearing at Page No.256 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents? Hon. Senators, I am referring to the bundle of documents from the County Assembly, Volume 1 at Page No.256. Confirm indeed that that is the agreement between you, your wife on the one hand and the purchaser of the salon.

Yes, this is the agreement.

Dennis, was your wife part of this agreement? Did she concur with your sentiments and plan to sell the business so that you can secure a job opportunity?

At first, my wife was not in agreement. This is because we had lived in Nairobi City County for the period of 13 years and this was our

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lifetime savings for that period. She was not of the idea that we sell the salon, but since this was an opportunity for us to shape our life, I had to plead with her so that she agrees we use the money for the occasion.

Subsequently, she agreed for you to sell the salon?

Yes.

When you sold the salon, do you remember what date that was?

Yes, we wrote the agreement on date 25th. He paid us in two instalments. The first instalment was Kshs200,000.

Kindly, look at the agreement and confirm the actual dates. Was it 25th or 20th? Confirm from the agreement.

It is 25th.

Confirm from the agreement. There is a date written beneath.

The agreement was done on the 20th, but the first payment was made on 25th.

So, the agreement was done on 20th?

Yes.

The first instalment was to be paid on 25th of April?

Yes.

Was that before or after the shortlisting?

After the shortlisting.

What did you do with the money immediately you got it from the buyer of the salon?

He gave us the money in cash. We carried it money home and gave it to our parents to keep it safe for us.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya, are you an accountant?

Yes.

Are you saying that you gave your parents money to keep for you?

Yes.

That does not sound very credible. Why would you feel the need to give your parents money to keep for you?

We were doing a clearance at that time. We were selling all our items from Nairobi to relocate to our rural home. We even went to an extent of borrowing from these mobile banking and from our banks.

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Since my wife was the one operating the business, we were doing most of the transactions through her phone number. So, we even went to an extent of borrowing money from Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB) and Mshwari so that we could raise the full amount. So, we felt that it is better it be kept by our parents because if we kept it, we could have used the money again. It would not have served the right purpose.

So, you gave it to your parents because you felt you would have utilised the amount?

Yes.

Thank you. What do your parents do for a living? When you talk about your parents, kindly talk about your father and your mother.

My father is a retired civil servant. He was working in the veterinary. However, he has some business at home and operates an M- pesa shop with a small retail shop.

He is operating an M-pesa shop?

Yes.

Was the money subsequently given to the Deputy Governor?

Yes, when the Deputy Governor requested for the Kshs800,000, on the 28th,, we gave him Kshs500,000---

28th of which month?

28th May.

28th of May?

Yes.

Was that the year 2023?

Yes, last year.

Where was that money handed over?

My dad did a transaction of Kshs251,000 from his accounts to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa. Then, my mother sent me Kshs250,000 to my M-pesa account so that I could transfer the same to the Deputy Governor. So, I transferred a sum of Kshs249,000 because of some transaction costs.

Kindly, go to page 255 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents. Hon. Senators, I am referring to volume one again at page 255. I am looking at the second last transaction contained at page 255. Mr. Dennis, tell us about that transaction. Where was that money being sent to, from who and the time?

This is my M-pesa statement.

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Kindly read it out.

My M-pesa number is 0725487300. After receiving a transaction of Kshs250,000 from my mother, Annah Misati---

Do you have proof that you first received money from you mother?

Yes.

Kindly, take us there. Look at the next page. Hon. Senators, the next page is not paginated but if you flip, you will go to the next page. That is the page after 255. Mr. Dennis, point to the hon. Senators to that transaction where money was sent to your phone from your mother’s account.

The second page of my M-pesa transaction. There is the first transaction which happened at 8.00 p.m., my mother sent me Kshs50,000. Again, at 7.51 p.m., she sent the same amount of Kshs50,000 to make it Kshs100,000. The first transaction at 7.44 p.m. she had sent ----

A bit slowly. Hon. Senators, I am referring to the fourth, fifth and sixth transactions appearing on that page. So, did you first receive Kshs150,000?

Yes.

At what time?

I received the first transaction at 7.44 p.m.

From whom?

From my mother, which was Kshs150,000.

What is the name of your mother?

Annah Misati.

The second transaction?

It was Kshs50,000 at 7.51 p.m. and then the last transaction from my mother was at 7.51.

Of how much again?

Kshs50,000.

Immediately after that, where did you transfer the money to?

After I had received the full amount of Kshs250,000, I transferred the amount from my M-pesa mobile number to the Deputy Governor’s phone number.

How much money did you send to the Deputy Governor’s number?

The first amount that I sent to him was at 8.33 p.m. which was Kshs150,000.

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Confirm the mobile number that you used to send the Deputy Governor through kindly.

It is not clearly indicated but it ends with ---700.

Do you know his number?

Yes, I had it in my phone.

You have quoted that number in your affidavit? We can refresh your memory by looking at the affidavit. It is important for that number to be captured.

The mobile number that I used to send the amount to Deputy Governor is 0711860700.

Can you repeat that?

What was the name that came out after you sent the money?

The name that came out was Robert Monda.

Were you in the presence of the Deputy Governor all this time or you were away from him?

We were away from him but in the same premise.

Where is that premise?

His home.

How many transactions did you make to the Deputy Governor in total from your M-pesa?

It is totalled to Kshs249,000.

Confirm that the last transaction to him is the second last transaction appearing at page 255.

Yes.

Is that from your Mpesa again?

Yes.

How did he receive the remainder of the amount if any?

After leaving his residence, we had given him a sum of Kshs500,000. The initial agreement was that we had to pay the Kshs800,000. So, after leaving the place, we agreed that we shall deliver the balance amount the following day which was on a Monday. We went to his place on a Sunday, and the following Monday. We were to deliver the balance which was Kshs300,000 at his office.

Did he receive any other amounts of money from any of the persons you were in the company off on that day?

He only received the amounts from my father.

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Are you able to point us to that transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor on the same day? We are getting there, hon. Senators. On page 65, Volume II of the Deputy Governor's (DG's) response, kindly show us the transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor, appearing at page 65.

It is on page 65 on the same date of 28th, my dad made four transactions. The first one was from a Cooperative Bank Account. This is a joint account between my dad and mum. The first transaction was Kshs70,000. The second one was Kshs70,000, and again, he did a transaction of Kshs70,000. Later, he did another transaction of Kshs41,000. So, it is totaling to Kshs251,000.

What was the nature of this transaction? It reflects that it is from a bank. How was that payment done from the bank?

It was done from the bank to the M-pesa account of the Deputy Governor. However, this is a different number from the one I used.

What number is that?

This number is 0702000220.

Please repeat.

It is 0702000220.

Who is the registered owner of that number?

It is registered to the Deputy Governor.

That would total to how much; what you had given him and what your parents sent to the Deputy Governor?

It is totaling to Kshs500,000.

Your allegation was that the ask was for Kshs800,000. What happened to the balance?

We agreed that on the following day, which was on a Monday, we would bring the balance of the Kshs300,000 to his office which is situated at the Gusii Stadium.

Have you had the occasion to look at the response of the Deputy Governor in defense to that specific allegation?

Not yet.

I want to refer you to the Deputy Governor's response, what he said about why he had received money from you and your father and what he did to it. I want you to look at that response at paragraph 16. The Deputy Governor alleges that your father owed the Deputy Governor some money and that, that money sent from you, your father and mother was towards the payment of that loan. What do you have to say to that line of defense?

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Hon. Speaker, Sir, I can say that this is a lie because if we look at the whole thing, I was included in sending the money to the Deputy Governor. If at all this was a debt that my dad was paying to the Deputy Governor, then if we look at his Cooperative Bank joint account, the account holds more than what I sent.

Let us go back to that account, now that you have raised the issue. How much did your mother and father jointly have as at the time they were sending money to the Deputy Governor and what was the balance after they sent money to the Deputy Governor? Hon. Senators, we are, again, making reference to the Deputy Governor's response.

So, after my dad sent the last amount, which was Kshs41,000, his account balance was a balance of Kshs1.3 million.

So, your father still had some balance in his account?

Yes, he had a balance of Kshs1.3 million. Indeed, if he was paying a debt, he could have done the whole transaction at ago.

Thank you. I want you to look at that response again. The Deputy Governor of Kisii County alleges that he had loaned your father the amount of Kshs600,000, some of which money had gone towards paying fees for your child. Hon. Senators, I am referring to page E5 of the Deputy Governor's response. Had you received any money from your father that to your knowledge, was an advance from the Deputy Governor that you paid school fees for your child with and now that day you were refunding?

No.

Have you ever sought any assistance from your parents towards the education of your child?

Yes. This was after we had given the money to the Deputy Governor. We had sold everything we owned and gone back home. I was not in any financial position thereafter to take my daughter to school.

Mr. Dennis, I have perused through the statements and I have seen a number of transactions between your father and the Deputy Governor as late as January 2024 - money flowing from your father to the Deputy Governor, and vice versa . Are you aware why your father would occasionally send money to the Deputy Governor and vice versa? His defense is that they are long-term friends and they used to loan each other money and this was not an isolated case. What do you have to say to that?

I cannot deny that they are long-term friends; actually it exceeds 30 years. The main transaction between my father and the DG is that my father is one of the officials of a SACCO that he leads at our home.

What is the name of that SACCO?

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It is called Kebobora Women’s Group. It is in our locality and he is the Treasurer. On many occasions, the Deputy Governor borrows money from the SACCO through my dad's name, then he refunds with an interest. That is, generally, the business they have been doing.

On this day, could it be one of such instances where the Deputy Governor had borrowed money and was being refunded by your father?

No, it is not one of those days. As I stated earlier, if actually, this was the borrowing and lending business, I am not an official of the SACCO. Therefore, I would not be entitled to make any transaction to the Deputy Governor through my mobile phone.

Did you have any other reason to visit the Deputy Governor's home on 28th of May, apart from the business of giving him money for securing the job vacancy? Did you have any other business?

No.

Have you ever been to the Deputy Governor's home at any other time?

No.

What then does your presence mean against the defense of the Deputy Governor that it was a repayment of the loan?

I was the owner of this whole initiative. I was the one who was looking for employment. So, I was to be there to witness what was going on because this was my money.

Are you aware if the Deputy Governor ever transmitted any money to the target of the bribe?

Yes.

Who was that target?

The Director of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company limited (GWASCO)---

What is the name of the Managing Director of GWASCO?

Her name is Lucy Wahito.

Kindly look at the document before you. Hon. Senators, I am looking at page 99 of the Deputy Governor’s response. Is there any money sent to that very person, Lucy Wahito, the Managing Director (MD) of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO) on that very day?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, there is a sum of Kshs100,000.

What time was that money sent?

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It was sent on 28th May, 2023, at 9.24 p.m.

What time had you sent the money to the Deputy Governor?

The first transaction was made at 8.33 p.m.

Then an hour he sends money to the same Lucy, the MD of GWASCO?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The very company where you had applied and you were shortlisted for a position?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Governor says that the money was sent erroneously, but interestingly, to the same person that he was meant to bribe. What do you say about that?

I do not know what to say, but this was that transaction but I believe this was a bribe so that he could---

In your previous discussions with the Deputy Governor and your father, were you aware that Lucy Wahito was the person meant to be bribed by the amount of money you were giving?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not know the name, but I know it was going to be given to the Managing Director who happens to be Lucy Wahito.

Thank you. Did you ever secure that employment at GWASCO?

No, I did not.

You did not.

Yes.

Did you follow up with the Deputy Governor or your father to make an inquiry over the same?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did. We made constant follow-ups through my father with the Deputy Governor but we did not receive any communication.

Dennis Mokaya Misati, your own biological father and your mother will appear tomorrow before the Senate and they will label you a liar. Why would you want to go against the statement of your own father? Why would your father be lying about the purpose of the money sent to the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is my life and that was my money. That was my lifetime savings. If my dad chooses friendship over the truth, then let it be so.

Thank you.

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Are you done with the witness because he is breaking down?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we can pause for 30 seconds. He can recollect himself.

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, take care of the situation in the public gallery.

Mr. Misati, can we proceed? Kindly tell the hon. Senators about your current relationship with your parents as a result of this?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have anything against my parents. The fact is that this was my family’s lifetime savings. We had built this business for the last 13 years. This was our opportunity to sell the business and get something that would benefit the family. However, we lost everything. After we lost everything, my parents at home became unsupportive, so we had to leave our home and find somewhere else to start all over again.

How did that affect you and your wife?

Counsel, just hold on. What is your intervention, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? Senators, just to remind you that you will have an opportunity to engage the witness. I hope that whatever you want to raise has got nothing to do with seeking clarification or asking questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, purely on humanitarian grounds, I request that you use Standing Order No.1 to allow the young witness, probably five or 10 minutes maximum to recompose himself. You can see that the witness is completely emotionally eroded.

From the Counsel, the witness is doing pretty well and that is why they proceeded, otherwise, that application can only come from the Counsel and not from you, hon. Senator. Counsel, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I urge the witness to gather courage and proceed. Mr. Misati, how has this ordeal affected your family life; you and your wife?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, initially, my wife was not in agreement that we sell our family business to relocate to our home. I had to persuade her to agree with me so that we get better after we secure that job. We, therefore, agreed and relocated to our home. After that, we were disappointed because I did not secure the opportunity. Recruitment was done and people reported for duty. It was very stressful and my wife did not take it easy and she branded me a liar because we lost the family business. At that

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time, my wife was expecting, after 12 years of trying. My first born is 13 years old. We had tried for all that period. During that hard time, my wife miscarried---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the whole blame came back to me because, initially, she was not in agreement that we sell the business. We got into much stress and depression. I had to look for a way to sort out this issue. We had to leave home and look elsewhere in order to start all over again.

You have also made allegations on threats to your life. Kindly, tell us how that is the case.

After learning that the appointments were done and there was no job, no vacancy and all my savings were gone, I approached one of my friends. I have been following him on social media since 2022 and he is now an elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) of Ichuni Ward with the intention of inquiring if he could help me secure the money I gave to the Deputy Governor.

Is that the mover of this Motion?

Yes.

What did the Mover of this Motion advice you to do after you brought this to his attention?

When I reported to him, he took it as a joke until I provided the documents. He requested for the M-pesa statement showing the transactions and I did give him. He then advised me to make a formal complaint so that he can follow up with the Deputy Governor for my refund. I knew he was doing it so that I could get my refund. I never knew it would reach this far.

It was not your intention to find yourself at the Senate on the impeachment charges?

Yes.

Have you ever received your money back?

No.

Have you made any follow-ups in any Government agency to recover your money?

After leaving home and relocating to Nairobi, I made a complaint at Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) on the same.

Has the EACC summoned anyone in respect to this issue?

After making the complaint, they summoned the Chief Executive Officer of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO).

Who is that?

Ms. Lucy Wahito.

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Lucy was summoned by EACC pursuant to your complaint?

Yes.

Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to stop at that and yield the witness to my learned friend for cross-examination.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor. It is your turn now.

Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

Good afternoon.

I would like to start with a few preliminary issues. From the cross-examination, you have said that you have seen the response by your father and mother.

Yes.

You see that their position is that they were refunding money they borrowed from the Deputy Governor?

Yes.

What did you say is your reaction to the point made by your parents that the money was a refund of a loan that had been given to them?

It is a lie.

You are telling the Senate that it is a lie?

Yes.

Now, in your affidavit, you admit readily that your father and the Deputy Governor have been friends for many years?

Yes.

Is that a fact?

It is a fact.

Do you know whether they were borrowing each other money over the years?

Yes, they have been borrowing money. I can say that the Deputy Governor has been borrowing money---

Listen to my question.

Yes.

You admit that indeed, over the years, they have been borrowing each other money?

Yes.

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Okay. Now, it is also true your father and the Deputy Governor have an Agrovet business in Kisii. Is that not it?

No.

Both of them do it separately.

No.

It is not a joint business. Each of them is running their own business. Is that not it?

There is no business at this date.

Okay. Did they use to run?

Yes.

Okay, sorry about that. It is also true that they use to borrow each other stocks.

Yes.

Okay. So, your position is that in respect to this specific point that Mr. and Mrs. Misati borrowed money in November/October 2022 is a lie. Having admitted that they borrow each other money, what makes you distinguish this refund of money borrowed in November/October 2022? What distinguishes this exchange?

My reason is that I was--- as he said they are giving a refund. I was not involved in their transactions. I came from Nairobi to Kisii for the first time after a long period of time. So here comes---

You admit that you do not know what the transactions were?

The one I sent to the Deputy Governor?

Yes.

I know.

Let us go back to my question. Having admitted that they borrowed each other stock and money, what is it that distinguishes the case of these Kshs500,000 that Mr. and Mrs Misati are saying they borrowed from Dr. Monda in November and were refunding in May, 2023?

I have never been included all along on their borrowing business. I am in this case.

Could the record of the Senate then reflect that--- your point is that you are asking for your money but you did not know whether or not they had borrowed each other in November, 2022?

Actually, what---

Do you know whether or not they borrowed each other in November?

That was not a borrowing.

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Your position is that they did not borrow each other in November?

I do not know but at that time---

You do not know. Let us leave it there. I wanted you to confirm whether you can say for a fact that they did not borrow each other or you do not know. You also say that--- In your affidavit, I have seen quite a number of paragraphs where the communication was between your father on your behalf and the Deputy Governor. Is that not it?

Yes.

Do you have your affidavit there? Hon. Members, I am referring to page 17 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have it?

Yes.

Could you confirm that paragraph five is information you received and it got to you through your father and it was not a direct conversation with the Deputy Governor? You say in paragraph five that “In early 2023, my father had learned through Deputy Governor of job vacancies with GWASCO”. Is that what you have said?

Yes.

That information came to you through your father. Is that it?

Yes.

Not a personal conversation with the Deputy Governor.

It was through my father.

Please let us go to paragraph six. You said that “on 21st April, while I was working with a company known as Together As One Finance as a Marketeer, my father brought to my attention”, That information came to you through your father. You did not talk with the Deputy Governor.

It came through my father.

Okay. Let us look at paragraph nine. You said in paragraph nine that, “the Deputy Governor called us to his home within days of being informed by my father about the post and before the interviews were carried out.” Can you see that?

Yes.

That also came through your father, not directly between you and the Governor.

All the communication was done through my father.

Okay. I would like you to look at paragraph 11(d) on the next page. Are you at (d)?

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Yes.

You said Kshs250,000 was sent to Dr. Monda through my father’s Safaricom line. That is also information in the hands of your father, not you personally. Is that not it?

This was information from my father.

Thank you very much. Lastly, in paragraph 17, you said that you informed your father of the intention to report the matter to EACC and your father told Dr. Monda and that Dr. Monda got upset.

Yes.

Having gone through that, could you confirm that in terms of the whole of these transactions, you have not had a direct conversation between yourself and Dr. Monda and that you tell your father to communicate with Dr. Monda?

All the communications were done through my dad.

Your father?

Yes. I have never had any direct communication.

Okay. Could we also confirm that apart from not having a personal conversation with Dr. Monda, you did not have any telephone conversation with him?

True.

No telephone or oral conversation? Did you say you have been to Dr. Robert Monda's house only once when you were being led in evidence in June?

In his office?

In his house.

We went to his house on the 28th ---

I understand that. You have said that was the only time you went there?

That was the first time I went there.

What does it mean to say first time? Have you subsequently gone there?

No.

: So, it is the only time?

Yes.

: Okay. So it is the only time even as we stand here today?

Yes.

It is also your testimony that on that date of 28th when you remitted the sum of Kshs249, 000, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda and your father were seated at a distance talking as friends?

Yes.

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Were you separate from them?

Yes. I was with my other brothers.

How many of them?

We were with my other three brothers.

So, you were four brothers. Did you participate in the conversation between hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda and your father? For instance, it was on a Saturday or did you make any contribution? Did you participate in that conversation at all in one way or the other?

No. I did not.

It is your case that the money belongs to you?

Yes.

It is also your admission that you do not know whether your father owed Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money?

Sorry?

As you stand here before the Senate, your position is that the money belongs to you. Is that true?

Yes, that was my money.

Simultaneously, you cannot say for a fact, from where we have just come in cross-examination, that your father, Mr. Joseph Misati, did not owe Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money. You cannot say that.

If he had, I did not know---

Just answer the question I have asked you. You cannot say for a fact whether Joseph and your mom owed Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money. You cannot confirm that.

I cannot confirm.

Thank you. Let us go to paragraph 10. We will come back to the other paragraphs. Hon. Members, I am referring to page 18 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle paragraph 10. In paragraph 10, you have said “My father and I voluntarily gave him Kshs799,000 an amount meant to secure me a job believing him as Deputy Governor with influence over Gusii Water and Sewerage Company (GWASCO) which is an entity of the county government which he deputizes as head of government. You stand by that statement. Is that true?

Yes, I do.

If this was a court, you would be ready to be sentenced? Is that true? You are admitting that you are a criminal?

I am not admitting---

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You are saying that I you gave out a bribe. Are you not saying that here?

I can say that---

On paragraph 10, you are saying you gave out money with the intention of getting a job. Is that what you are saying? A bribe with an intention of getting a job?

I only succumbed to pressure from his office.

Okay, your state of mind aside, all I am saying is that you are admitting before this Senate that as you stand, testify and complain, you are criminal. Is that not true?

I am not.

Have you not said that you are a criminal and that you gave out a bribe or do you think giving a bribe is not a crime?

At first, they called it a facilitation fee, others call it ‘tea’. I do not know. Now you are calling it a bribe.

Who complained to Hon. Siocha that he bribed and did not get a job?

I told Hon. Siocha I gave---

So, I want to move on from this point. Are you now then telling this Senate, it was not a bribe but a facilitation fee? Are you re-baptizing the name of this Kshs799,000?

That is how we call it.

It was a facilitation, not a bribe?

Yes.

Your hope was and it was somehow a gamble that if I give out Kshs799, 000, I will get a job. That was the state of your thinking based on what you brought to this Senate.

Yes.

You were gambling that at least this Kshs799, 000 will fetch me a job. Is that not true?

Yes.

I said you were gambling with getting a job? You were hoping to get a job?

Yes.

May I ask you as a general proposition, is it true that you by nature engage in gambling?

What do you mean?

That you are a gambler.

That is not true.

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Say that again. You swore to say the truth? Is that not it?

Yes.

Are you swearing that by nature, you are not a gambler? You do not bet?

Actually, betting is a ---

So, you gamble? You gambled on the job and you are a generally a gambler. Is that not it? Hon. Members, I would like to go to pages 21 and 22 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have your M-Pesa record there?

Yes.

I would like you to look at the first page. Your M-Pesa was obtained on the 29th of January, 2024. Can you see that?

Yes.

I would like you to look at the entry of the 28th May, 2023. It should be the fourth last entry from the bottom. Are you there? Do you want me to help you?

Yes, it is there.

It is true that in that entry you had about Kshs400 and you spent about Kshs100 in gambling. Is that true?

Yes.

Okay. Let us go to page two. I would like you to look at the entry of your transaction on 28th May. The same day we are talking about at noon. Are you there?

Yes.

At that time, you had Kshs300 and you spent Kshs200 in gambling. Is that not it?

Yes.

Then at 10:21 on the same 28th May; the same day we are talking about money being sent to Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, you did not have any money. You had only Kshs34. However, somehow you spent Kshs100 on gambling. Is that not it?

Yes.

Then the day before at 18:51 hours, you spent another Kshs100 and left a balance of Kshs34 in your account. I do not want to go through all this because of time. You, however, agree that generally, your statement shows you engage in gambling.

Yes.

The same way you were gambling with the Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda at the job?

Yes.

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Okay. Thank you. I want to move on to the big question here. Whose money was it? Your position is it is your money but you do not know whether Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Misati owed the Deputy Governor money. I would like us to discuss on the face of what you came with to the Assembly and subsequently to this Senate. It is true from what my colleague Mr. Mutuma took you through that you confirm that money came from your mother’s, Mrs. Ann Misati, M-Pesa account to your account. Is that not it?

True.

So, let us start. You received money from--- Hon. Senators, that M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 but with particular reference to the entries on page 87. Which bundle are you using?

Sorry?

Let me see the bundle you are using. Thank you very much. Are you on page 87?

Yes.

Could you confirm that the entry of 28th May at 20:01, you received Kshs50,000 from Mrs. Misati who is your mum?

Yes.

At 19:51, you received another Kshs50,000 from her?

Yes, I did.

Lastly, at 19:44, you received Kshs159,000 from her?

Yes.

Okay. These are exactly the amounts that you remitted to Dr. Monda, less Kshs1,000?

Yes.

Why did you keep Kshs1,000?

That was for transaction costs.

Okay. So, you kept Kshs1,000 for transaction costs?

Yes.

So, your mum sent you Kshs250,000. You remitted to Dr. Monda only Kshs249,000 and kept Kshs1,000, is that not so?

Actually, it was not Kshs1,000. After the transaction cost, I do not know how much remained in the account.

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Do you know how much it was?

It was less by Kshs1,000, but I do not know how much remained in the account.

The question I have for you is this, did you call your mum to request her to withhold Kshs1,000?

Sorry?

You withheld Kshs1,000 from her, is that not the case?

Yes.

Did you request her to withhold that Kshs1,000? Did she authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

No.

Did your father authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

My dad told me to send Kshs249,000. It was my father because we were with him.

Okay. It is because you needed to cushion yourself against the expenses of that transaction, is that not the case?

That was the---

He did not want you to incur an expense. You are saying he told you to keep Kshs1,000, and send Kshs249,000. Was that so?

This was---

No, we must go through this. He did not want you to spend your money. So, he told you to send Kshs249,000 and keep Kshs1,000, being the charges that you would incur for passing on this money, is it not so?

That is not true.

What is the true position?

Actually, my dad did the first transactions to the Deputy Governor. He had transacted a total Kshs100,000---

Let us not go back so that we do not spend too much time. Why were you keeping Kshs1,000? Let me just put it like that.

Because my dad had sent him Kshs251,000 with an extra Kshs1,000. So, I sent Kshs249,000 to make it a total of Kshs500,000.

If that money was yours, why would your father be concerned about whether or not you would spend money to remit the amount? Why would he bother? Is it not because it was his money and he did not want you to go at a loss?

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It was because he wanted to make the full payment of Kshs500,000.

The reason is that your father did not want you to spend money on his business. Is that not the case?

That is not true.

Okay. I will move from there. So, your position is that the money that your mum sent was your money. Is that your position?

Yes.

Without spending so much time on that point, could you confirm that you have not given us any paper trail to show that the money was from you to your mum's M-pesa account?

I gave the full amount of Kshs800,000---

No, just answer my question. My question is, we have traced how money came from your mum to your account and then to Dr. Monda. Is it not so?

Yes.

You have shown us the EACC documents and so on and so forth. In the same way that you are so diligent, you have not given us, with the same diligence, documents showing that on a given date, you remitted a sum of Kshs250,000 to your mum, which is a basis for you to say that money was yours and your mum was just a custodian.

There were no documents.

Thank you. In your statement, I want you to go to page 19, paragraph 11(d). Are you there?

Yes.

You have said that Kshs250,000 was remitted using your father’s Safaricom line. Is it not so?

Yes.

Okay. Now, let us start from there. This is mistaken and not accurate. Is this correct?

This is not correct.

This is wrong?

Yes.

When did you realize it is wrong?

The transaction that my dad did---

No. You went to see Hon. Siocha and told him---

That is not true; those are not the allegations. Let me explain.

Okay.

When we were doing these transactions---

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I do not want to go a long way. You are not answering my question. My question is simply this; do you admit that in Paragraph 11(d), it is not true that your father remitted Kshs250,000 using his Safaricom line? Do you admit that?

Yes.

My question is simply this; when did you realise that was inaccurate?

When I saw my father's statement.

So, you saw it for the first time when your father explained that he did not send money to Dr. Monda through M-pesa. Is it not so?

The initial case was---

Just limit yourself to my questions. When your father responded, you realised that Kshs250,000 was paid to Dr. Monda, is it not so?

Yes.

How?

The first transaction was done secretly between my dad and the Deputy Governor. Then he came back to me saying---

No, we are talking about a different issue. The question is simply whether it was paid through Safaricom? The answer is no. When did you learn it? You have said when my father responded.

Yes.

Let me just put it directly to you. You realised that the money was sent from a co-operative bank account directly to Dr. Monda, is it not the case?

Sure.

That was the first time you realised, kumbe that transaction was not done through M-pesa to M-pesa, it was actually bank to bank transfer to Dr. Monda's account. Is it not so? Was there any time you knew your money was at a co-operative bank? Let me put it this way. Did you at any time deposit money at a co-operative bank account of your father and mother?

No, I gave the full amount in cash.

You gave Kshs250,000 in cash. So, you did not know whether it was in M-pesa?

Wherever they chose to keep it, I did not know.

Thank you very much. I would like to move on. You also say that your father remitted Kshs250,000. Is that correct? Was it Kshs250,000?

It was Kshs251,000.

So, even in that sense, this statement is also wrong?

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Yes. It was Kshs251,000.

I would like to put it to you that the reason you do not know that the money was from Co-operative Bank and that the money was Kshs251,000, is because Dr. Monda and your father were talking at a distance as you already told the Senate, is it not the case?

That is not true.

What is not true?

We live in a world of technology. So, if I make a transaction between me and you, it is personal. I cannot take---

I think that is irrelevant. What I am asking you is, if you were seated with Dr. Monda and your father, you would have heard that your father was saying, he will give him the money from Co- operative Bank. You did not hear that, did you?

We sat at a distance.

Neither would you have heard about Kshs251,000?

Yes.

Okay. For argument’s sake, let us say that they discussed about the bribe. That story of whether or not this money was for a bribe or refund is what your father would tell you when you were leaving the place, is it not so? You were not sitting together and discussing whether the work was worth Kshs1 million, Kshs500,000, Kshs799,000 or Kshs800,000. You were not there to listen to that conversation as to whether or not this money was a bribe. It must be what your father told you as you walked out, as we have seen in paragraphs 5, 6, 9, 11, and 17.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not see the need why I should go with all my sons to the Deputy Governor’s house or home to pay a debt as he says. He could have done that comfortably from our home.

But they are friends, is it not so?

Yes, they are friends.

In both your affidavit and statement, you said that they visited each other several times, is that not so?

Yes.

And this visit was not exceptional? The only distinction is that you went there with him for the first time.

It was my first time.

However, let us go back to the issue I want the Senate to understand. The question of the body of the conversation between the Deputy Governor and your father is an issue that you could have only learnt from your father while walking out because you were not seated with them, is it not?

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Actually, when the Deputy Governor called us, we knew what we were going to do at his home.

I will ask you again. Did you hear what they were discussing?

I did not hear what they were discussing but my dad was

So, you did not know whether this money was for a job?

I knew.

How did you know, when you could not hear? They had discussed earlier.

My father had updated us before leaving home to Dr. Monda’s place.

That is okay with me. So, it is your father who told you that they were going to pay Dr. Monda to help you get a job. Is that your point?

Dr. Monda had called him and instructed him to visit his place---

Yes. The real bottom line, Dennis, if you do not mind, is that there is no point at which where you and Dr. Monda discussed whether or not he could get you a job. All you know is what your father told you.

Yes. All the communication was through my dad.

Let us now look at Paragraph five of your affidavit. You state that “in early April, 2023, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of a job at the Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO). Have you seen that? Hon. Members, page 17, Paragraph five.

Yes.

In early April, 2024, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of job vacancies. Your position is that it was the Deputy Governor who told your father that? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, that is my position.

The source of information was the Deputy Governor telling your father?

Yes.

Okay. Let us look at Paragraph nine of your affidavit on page 18. It states “the Deputy Governor called us to his home in Kisii County within days of being informed by my father about the post and before the interview”. Can you see that?

Yes.

Okay. At Paragraph five, you say that the traffic of information is from the Deputy Governor to your father. In Paragraph nine, you are saying that the source of traffic is from your father calling the

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Deputy Governor. The Senate is to check who initiated this discussion about the job. Is it as in Paragraph five, where the Deputy Governor initiated it or was it your father as is in Paragraph 9?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Deputy Governor who called my dad.

Paragraph nine is inaccurate?

Yes.

I would like us to look at Paragraph six. According to you, the Deputy Governor called your father and told him there is a job and then your father told you to scout-you used that word- and so forth. Is it not?

Yes.

At Paragraph six, you state that “on Friday, 21st April, 2023 while I was working with a company known as Together as One as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies by GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advert and applied for the post of commercial manager.’’ Do you stand by that statement as it is?

Yes.

If you stand by it, could you tell this Senate when you knew for the first time that there was a job on offer at GWASCO; one of Kisii county’s subsidiaries? From the face of the statement.

It was done through my dad. He is the one who told me---

I am asking how you got to know the information. When was the first time you knew in regards to the face of the statement? It was on the 21st is it not?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from this statement, it was when I was told that there were vacancies.

You learned for the first time that the job has been advertised? Then you apply. Let us get this sequence in order. On 21st April, 2023, you were told it has been advertised and you applied. Then you were subsequently invited for interview, you went for it, evaluated but did not get the job. Is it not?

Yes.

The discussion about the need to give Dr. Monda Kshs799,000 happens after you have made the application. Is it not?

After I did my interview.

In evidence in chief, you said that the interview was on the 25th May, 2023. The correct position was that it was on the 15th May?

The interview was around the 25th ---

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Mr. Katwa Kigen: Ms. Lucy Wahito says and yourself has said in other places that it was the 15th May, 2023.

You can see from the ---

Yes, we can see from the letter of invite at page---I will get the date in a minute and then probably. If you could go to page 40--- You were shortlisted. Is that right? Pardon me. I am just trying to locate your name.

You can check it on page 39. That is the page that has the shortlisted applicants.

When was the interview?

26th May, 2023.

That is when the interview was?

Yes.

You said page 39?

Page 39.

This is a shortlist of the Human Resource Manager (HRM). Were you applying for that position?

We did them at the same time---

Could you check page 35, kindly? Anyway, let me do this because I do not see the date---

It is on 25th May, 2023.

Look at the bottom of page 36. Are you there?

Yes.

Does it show the date of the interview at the bottom?

Yes.

So, when was your interview again, my friend?

This shows when the shortlisting was done, date 15th . However, the interviews were done on the 25th May, 2023.

Okay. We will come back to that. You are telling this Senate that you learnt of the adverts on the 21st April, 2023. You made the application, got shortlisted and went for the interview before you discussed about the bribe? I want the point in time where the issue of bribe was discussed. Was it before or after the interviews?

After the interview.

The interview could have been on 25th May, 2023?

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Yes.

Okay, before the date the interview was conducted, you had not discussed raising money to pay Dr. Monda?

My father had told me that it would be required but at that time, the Deputy Governor had not communicated.

Okay. When did he inform you? It is okay if you cannot remember. Just give us a timeline.

It was towards the end of April.

You made your application on 21st April, is it not? And you are saying towards the end of April – so, we are looking around 25th to 23rd is when your father told you that it is likely that some amount will be required to get the job?

This is April. We are talking about May when we gave the amount.

When did the subject of being bribed come up?

After my interview.

You are telling this Senate that the interview was on 25th May, 2023? Before that, the issue of bribe had not been discussed?

It was not discussed, but we had an idea after my interview that something would be required.

Kindly tell this Senate again. You are saying that before your interview on the 25th, May, Dr. Monda had not asked for anything but you in your place suspected he might?

I cannot confirm the communication that took place between my father and the Deputy Governor.

So, the first time you had communication from Dr. Monda was post-interview on 25th May. This is the first time Dr. Monda spoke and said, ‘Please, bring me Kshs800,000” according to you from your father?

I cannot tell because they usually talk.

If you do not remember, it is okay. But your position is that the earliest Dr. Monda asked about any money was after the interview.

Yes.

Before that, he had not asked for any money.

Yes.

Okay. You said something I did not know. Before he asked you for the money after the interview on the 25th May, you suspected he might need some money.

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No, I told you all the communication was done ---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer the question. You had said that earlier. Are you retracting? Did you suspect that you will need some money?

To get some money? What do you mean? To give some money or get some money?

To give him some money for the job.

Yes.

From where you are seated you knew he might need it?

Yes.

But he had not told you.

Yes.

Okay. We are looking at the date of the application as the 25th, we are looking at an application made on the 21st of April and an interview done on the 25th of May. I would like us to go to the Deputy Governor’s bundle on page 256. Hon. Members, I am looking at Volume 1 of the County Assembly bundle page 256. Are you there, my friend? I am looking at your bundle.

That is volume?

Page 256 on this bundle. The sale agreement. Are you there? Mr. Speaker, Sir, am I allowed to go next to him so that we move on as they look for the page?

Please, if he can assist.

Mr. Dennis, I would like you to see the bottom of that agreement. In evidence in chief, you admit that you made that agreement on the 20th of April, 2023.

Yes.

Okay. Keeping in mind the timelines you have said – you applied on the 21st of April, you went for the interview on the 25th of May, then the request for a bribe was raised by Dr. Monda according to you. By the 25th of April 2023 when you were selling your salon for Kshs500,000, Dr. Monda had not told you anything about a bribe. You were only suspecting that he would ask for a bribe.

I did not know any communication.

Sorry.

I did not know of any communication between Mr. Monda and my dad at that time. At this time, I was not at home, I was in Nairobi.

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Yes, I know you were in Nairobi. At that time, when you were selling it, you had no communication about any bribe being required.

My dad told me we shift from Nairobi to Kisii. It was necessary to make the job arrangements. I had to.

So, if your interview was on the 25th of May, the issue of the need to use the money you had came a month later on the 25th of May. This is the 20th of April and Dr. Monda is asking for money – I am not saying he did, this is according to your case. He asked for it a month later on the 25th of May.

Yes.

All this time you are holding the money?

I was not holding the money. I gave the whole amount to my father. I told you they operate a business, I gave them the whole amount to keep it safe.

So, I have the greatest possible respect for you, Mr. Dennis. When you cry and say you sold your salon, you are doing so from your mind that a bribe might be required. Dr. Monda did not tell you he needed the money. When you were selling it, it was not because he had told you to sell your salon.

As I stated earlier, I did not know any communication between my father and ---

Why are you crying? It is not Dr. Monda who told you to sell your salon or caused you to sell your salon. He had not told you to give him any bribe.

Where is my business? Where did it go to?

When you sold it on the 20th Dr. Monda had not spoken to you. Had he? I have made my point to the Senate I would like to move on to a different issue. I want to finish because I know your colleagues need time. You said Dr. Monda threatened you.

Yes.

This is the other account against Dr. Monda. We have agreed that you never spoke with Dr. Monda at any point on the phone.

Every communication was done through my father.

Even the threat came through your father?

It came through Hon. Siocha whom I had reported the issue to, and he told me to write a formal statement.

I do not know if we are mixing the issues. We are talking about being threatened. We agree that there was no

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communication between you and Dr. Monda. Any time you needed to communicate to Dr. Monda, you would do it through your father?

Yes.

At a certain point, you labour under the feeling that you had been threatened and the feeling was communicated to you by your father or by whom?

When I told my dad I wanted to make a formal complaint, he was not of the idea.

Please answer the question directly. Is it your father who told you that Dr. Monda is upset and has threatened your life?

I got the information from my father.

The Senate can then rest and say, knowing that the point that you were threatened was communicated to you by your father that it came from Dr. Monda.

Yes.

That is good enough. I want to move on from there. Looking at paragraph 17, I have two last issues I want to discuss. First, we proceed to paragraph 12. You have nothing to show that any Kshs300,000 was given to Dr. Monda other than word of mouth.

No.

You do not have?

Yes.

You are a witness for the point that Kshs300,000 given to Dr. Monda. Is your father Mr. Joseph Misati?

Yes, I was with my father.

He will testify and say, “I was with my son when we gave Dr. Monda the money.”

Yes, I was with him.

Let us move on to paragraph 15. You said that- ‘I thereafter wrote a demand letter to the Deputy Governor’’. Could you confirm that in the totality of the documents you have brought, you have not given us a copy of that demand letter?

What I did after the complaint to hon. Siocha ---

We have documents that the Senate is looking at as you have seen we have gone through. The letter is not among the documents. There is no demand letter that you brought to the Senate.

I gave the copy to Hon. Siocha.

It is Hon. Siocha who will explain it?

Yes.

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Okay, let us move on. You reported the matter to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

Yes, I did.

Hon. Members, I want to refer to the DG’s bundle page 16 where the letter of EACC is. Could you confirm that this is the letter of complaint? Why do they keep taking the document away from you? We are on page 16 which is a letter dated 6th February, 2024, delivered to the EACC on 20th of February. This is not the letter you used to make your complaint.

This is a follow-up letter.

Have you brought to this Senate a copy of your letter of complaint, tabulating the issues you have complained against Dr. Monda?

The complaints were recorded and there was no document given.

So, you meant you have nothing to show for it?

Yes, it is only the recording that they did at the Ethic and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

Okay, and you have no reference number?

Actually, there was no reference number given.

Now, this Senate is investigative in these kinds of matters and might want to know whether that report was made. Could you tell this Senate, what day did you make this report to EACC?

It was before this---

You were prepared to make this case and you are saying you reported to EACC, could you tell us, was it on 14th February, 2023 or 16th or whichever date. Could you give us a specific day or you do not have a day?

I cannot remember the specific date.

Which place did you report this to?

Where?

At Integrity.

Integrity House?

Yes.

And your statement is at Integrity House?

Yes.

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Okay. So, if this Senate wants to summon somebody to confirm that, who did you report your statement to? Give us a name.

I do not know the name, but after I made the complaint ---

Just answer the question directly, so that we move on. You do not have a name?

I remember she was a lady, but I do not remember her name.

Pardon.

She is a lady.

She is right handed or left handed or you do not know?

I cannot tell.

Okay, but you do not know the name, date and you have no copy of any complaints. I would then to move on to a different issue as I close. What is your wish from this Senate? Your wish is that you get back your money? Is that what you want this Senate to say? What is your wish?

My wish as a young graduate, it is just a representation of the exploits that---

No, you cried about your money and so, is it your point that you want the Deputy Governor to be punished, lose his job or you want the refund of your money? What is it that you want this Senate to do?

When I made the complaint to the police, I wanted my money back.

You are not answering my question. You want back your money?

Yes.

Your expectation is that this Senate will tell the Deputy Governor to give you back your money. Let me ask you differently. Have you filed a civil suit for refund of your money?

No.

Is it your interest that your father’s friend be punished? Is your point that I want punishment for him or that is not your interest? Your interest is money or punishment?

My interest is not only money. It is my long-term savings I would have made over the period of years.

Yes, that is the same point, you want money.

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This is just a representation of the youth on the exploits we are going through under these politicians who ask favours in return of jobs. So, I am just a representative of the youth.

So, you have come to represent the youth in making this complaint?

Atually say, yes. If there are other youths out there who have not---

So, you have come here on behalf of the youths?

Sorry.

You have come here on behalf of other youths? Please, answer my question yes or no.

It is both.

Your tears this afternoon is also for the rest of the youth.

It was my life time savings. It is for the baby I lost through this process.

Now, let us look at Page 15 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle which is your letter of complaint.

Which page?

Page 15 of that same bundle. On page 15, you have said the only interest --- Are you on page 15?

This one?

Yes, that one. You said I have written to you because the Deputy Governor is acting with impunity. I believe as a Member of the County Assembly you are in a position to assist me by disciplining him through the County Assembly. All you have come to do is to punish him. You are not even interested in your money and saloon. You are only interested in him being punished. Is it not?

Punishing him means it is a refund and to see--

Have you asked for any refund in any of your affidavit or statement?

I actually wrote to him to get a refund complaining of the money he took from me.

I will move on because I just want to use --- The last thing I want to explore before I hand over to my colleague is page 13. If you could go to page 13, kindly the second paragraph. Page 13 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle hon. Members. Are you there at page 13? At paragraph two, you said the brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor about an advert on Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO). You can see that?

It is on page?

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It is on page 13. Your letter of 19th December. I am inviting you to paragraph two. Are you at paragraph two on the brief facts? Are you there?

Yes.

Okay. Could you confirm this is what you wrote? The brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor. You can see?

Yes.

Now, this letter was written when?

I wrote this letter to---

You wrote this letter when?

December.

19th December?

Yes.

So, taking paragraph two for its full meaning; it means you wrote this letter last year, 2022?

Sorry.

Taking this paragraph two for its full meaning, it means the brief facts that of April last year which is 2022. Is it not?

I think there was a mistake in typing. It was the same year.

This is a mistake?

Yes.

So, you are telling this assembly, this should have read brief facts of this year, 2023?

Yes.

Who wrote this letter? You or Hon. Siocha?

I am the one who wrote. He told me to write a formal complaint.

I put it to you that it is true that this letter was backdated to all events. Did Hon. Siocha come to you and said, we are looking on behalf of the Governor for a way to remove the Deputy Governor and we know you have an issue with him? Could you please do a complaint and then the two of you backdated the letter to 2023 when we were already living in the year 2024?

Hon. Members, there was no backdating.

You deny that you are not a weaponized youth?

Yes.

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Okay. Now, since you said that, I want us to go to page 14. I would like us to look at paragraph C. Are you at paragraph C?

Yes.

At paragraph (C), you said Kshs50,000 on 28th May though my Mpesa and then after that statement you said, annexed hereto and marked DMM4 is true copy of my M-pesa statement printout reflecting the said transaction. Can you see that?

Yes.

Is that correct?

Yes, I attached my Mpesa statement.

You attached it to the letter of 19th December, 2023.

Yes.

You had a M-pesa statement on 19th December, which you attached and sent to hon. Siocha. Is it not?

The one I sent to hon. Siocha.

The one we are relying on in this Senate. Is it not?

I gave this statement to Hon. Siocha.

Let us look at the annexure then. I would like us to go to page 21 of that same bundle; the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Are you at page 21?

Yes.

Is it true that the date of obtaining this Mpesa statement was 29th January, 2024 as we said a few minutes ago in my cross examination?

It is true this is ---

It was on 29th April?

Yes.

When you are saying you are attaching it and it is December, 2023 this Mpesa did not exist, did it?

First, I gave the Mpesa transaction. The first one I printed through Safaricom. Again, he called me and said he had misplaced the statement.

I put it to you that you are lying.

I am not lying.

You are not lying?

Yes.

Where is that statement you had as at December, 2023?

I gave to Hon. Siocha. When I made a formal complaint, I attached my Mpesa statement, interview application and all those. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You are saying you gave hon. Siocha a Mpesa statement that existed as at 19th December, 2023 and it is not this one?

Yes.

This is not the annexure you put there? It is not the annexure you gave hon. Siocha?

This is another one that I printed again.

That other that you had you have not presented it anywhere, or have you? It is nowhere in the whole of your case. Is it?

I told you the first one I gave to hon. Siocha.

Then hon. Siocha frustrated your case by doing that. I put it to you again that the truth of it is that you wrote this letter in post 29th January, 2024.You carelessly said I am enclosing an M-pesa statement, which then belly up your case by showing that, indeed, you are deep into the year 2024.

That is not true.

This statement, the one dated 19th December, by yourself and stamped by Hon. Siocha on 21st February, is back dated.

I am not getting the whole sense in it, because I told you---

All I am saying is that you wrote a letter dated 19th December and enclosed an M-pesa statement, which turns out to have been on dated 29th January, 2024. That is long after 19th December. That means that you did not have that M-pesa statement on 19th December.

That is why I told you---

Which in effect means you wrote this letter after 29th January, 2024. Both yourself and Hon. Siocha backdated it to 19th December and prepared a stamp with hon. Siocha dated 21st December, 2023.

That is not true.

Anyway, it is true from where we stand. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would like my colleague, Mr. Kelvin Michuki, to ask a few questions. He will probably use about ten minutes then we will be done. Thank you.

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Sen. Orwoba, what is your intervention on this? Counsel, just hold on.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wanted to intervene when the Senior Counsel was there. Since we are following the proceedings, I feel that they are not allowing the witness to answer. Can they allow the witness to answer because we are also following? We are not getting the---They are badgering the witness.

That is past. The Senior Counsel has already concluded with the witness. Counsel, proceed and ask your questions.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before counsel addresses you, we were cautioned that we have four hours. For guidance purposes, do our four hours include the cross-examination session and time consumed?

Yes, Counsel for the County Assembly. Remember, the directions given was that you have been given four hours wholesome. That means it is inclusive of your examination-in-chief, cross examination and re-examination. You started at 3.30 p.m. and you have done almost two hours of your time.

To that effect, will there be equality of arms, so that the defense does not eat into our time, because that could be their strategy as well. I am guided by your direction. We still have five more witnesses. Could we get direction as to how we will get equality of arms in that respect?

Proceed, mindful of the time that is provided for the County Assembly as well as the defense. We will deal with it as we progress. Sen. Wafula, proceed.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ni lazima tupate mwelekeo. Sio vyema Maseneta waliopo hapa kuchukua nafasi kwamba ni mawakili ama wawakilishi wa washukiwa ama washtakiwa katika masuala haya. Waache kesi iendelee jinsi inavyopaswa kuendelea.

Sen. Wafula, resume your seat. Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know if in the programme, there was specification of the amount of time to be taken in cross-examination, so that we have a fair idea of how much time is left for cross-examination. I am sure that even the counsel of the Deputy Governor would want to know how much time he is playing with.

As earlier on indicated, the time that was given at the point of starting these proceedings was that four hours is availed to the County Assembly. The four hours was wholesome. That means you divide that time with regards to re-examination, cross-examination and examination-in-chief. However, let us progress. Be mindful of the time. We will appropriately give instructions at that time, but be mindful of that time allocation as you proceed. Counsel, proceed.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Members of the House, for the record, I am Kelvin Michuki, appearing for the Deputy Governor. Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

Good afternoon to you.

I will start you off by, first, inquiring if you are a resident of Kisii County or Nyamira County?

I am a resident of Nyamira County.

If someone was to tell us you are a resident of Nyaribari Chache, that would be a lie?

It will be a lie.

If Mr. Siochi who moved the Motion at the County Assembly was to say you are a member of his ward, that would be a lie.

It will be a lie.

You have indicated that you were working and running businesses in Nairobi City County?

Yes.

When did you move back to Nyamira?

After I did my interview.

Was it in April or March?

It was the month of April, 2023.

When did you meet the Deputy Governor?

I met him at his home on 28th May.

And that was the first time that you met the Deputy Governor when you went to his place?

That was the first time I had gone to his place, but I had met him severally before.

Was this the first time you went with your brothers and your father at his place?

Yes.

How long had you been in Nairobi before that?

For a period of 13 years.

Since the Deputy Governor came into office, you have been a resident in Nairobi?

Yes.

So you cannot state how often your father visited the Deputy Governor at his place?

I cannot tell.

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So, you cannot say whether that was a regular occurrence or not.

Yes.

You have indicated that you were employed by a corporation known as Together as One. Have you provided any proof of this fact?

No.

Was the money that you utilised to invest in your salon sourced from your employment or gambling activities?

It was from my salon business.

I will go back to the issue of moving to Nyamira in April. This was before you learnt of this job at Gusii Water and Sewerage Company (GWASCO)?

I relocated to Nyamira after learning about the position.

When did you apply for this particular job?

It was in early April. After I made the application, I did the interview, then I came back to Nairobi and moved back.

There is your sales agreement of your saloon. You can refer to that.

Yes.

It is in your bundle; not that bundle, the other bundle. When was this agreement made?

At Ruai.

What page is that, just for the House to be aware?

Page 256.

The agreement is dated at the bottom?

Yes.

Which dates?

20th April.

20th April 2023?

Yes.

When you sold your salon, did you apply for the job?

There was a communication that the advertisements will be out so I should prepare for an interview.

Had you even learnt of this job at that time?

Yes.

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I will take you to your statements. Still on Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle, page 248. I would like you to read for the House paragraph six.

On Friday 21st April, 2023, while I was working with a company known as Together as One Investment Limited microfinance as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies with GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advertisement and applied for the post of commercial manager.

So, when you father brought it to your attention on the 21st that there is a job at GWASCO, had you already agreed and sold your salon?

There was an earlier communication that I should prepare.

We go with what is on the record. According to the record, you had already sold your salon.

We had agreed, but had not sold the salon.

An agreement to do what?

To sell.

Counsel, for purposes of housekeeping and timekeeping as well, the County Assembly had been allocated four hours. We have so far done 52 minutes in examination-in-chief and cross-examination has taken 60 minutes. We are yet to deal with three examinations. Going forward, Counsel Michuki remember, if I heard right, the Senior Counsel Katwa indicated that you will take 10 minutes. I believe you will be done with your cross-examination hopefully in the next five minutes. This is so that we embark on a re- exam and rework the timelines going forward with the remainder of the witnesses. Hopefully, you will close on that part in the next five minutes. Before I give you back the microphone, Sen. Omogeni, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have dealt with part of the issue that I wanted to draw to your attention to. We have done a number of impeachments in Plenary and what normally happens from the Chair is that you give guidance to the amount of time that will be spent on cross- examinations. You know, this is a time-bound proceeding. We only have two days. If the defence is allowed to cross-examine for the entire of this evening, we will not have the benefit of taking evidence from the other witnesses. For example, on what is happening, Counsel Katwa did very well. He took us through the agreement and made reference to the dates. The counsel is again taking us back to the same agreement and repeating the same questions. I plead that you give guidance for full compliance on the time the defence should take for cross-examination so that we make progress.

Point taken. You are aware, there is definitely no way the Chair can intervene as to what you have just said. However, for

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purposes of proceeding, Counsel Michuki, you should be closing in the next five minutes. I will give directives to your next witness. This must have been your star witness that is why this much time has been taken. Proceed to conclude.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and the Senior Counsel, we are guided. Mr. Misati, we shall move from that point and move to a quite emotive issue it seemed. In your evidence, you raised an issue that is neither in your statements or in the Motion that was moved in the County Assembly. The issue about your wife who was expecting having a miscarriage. Can you confirm to the House that this was not in your complaint to Hon. Siochi?

I had explained to him.

Is it in that letter that we have?

It was not in the letter.

Is it in the Motion that was moved at the County Assembly?

I am not aware, but I thought his was more of a personal family issue.

You have raised it before this tribunal so we have to go through it.

Yes.

Have you put before this honourable House any documents to support this fact?

No, I have not because it took place in Kisii. I was not able to get the documents.

Can you at least give us a timeline on when it happened?

It was in August last year.

You have indicated that you made a statement to the EACC.

Yes, I did.

I will take you to the follow-up that we have, the one you were referred to by Mr. Katwa, just for confirmation purposes. There is nothing else you have placed before this tribunal or sent to hon. Siochi with regard to the EACC?

I made a complaint to the EACC when I came here in January.

Nothing has been placed before this House except that follow-up letter.

It was the follow-up letter.

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You also testified that Lucy Wahito was called to record a statement at EACC according to your knowledge.

Yes, I did.

From what source did you get this information?

I had made a complaint to EACC.

Where did you get the information that Lucy had been called to EACC to record a statement?

Through the communication I got from EACC.

Did you get a communication from the EACC?

Yes, there is a lady who called me after I had submitted my ---

What was the name of this lady? Is this another unknown person?

I cannot remember the exact name but ----

So, this is another nameless unknown person from EACC? We move to the money that you paid. The transactions happened on the 28th May?

Yes.

Was this before or after you were shortlisted?

It was after I was shortlisted.

Was this before or after or you were interviewed?

After I was interviewed.

So, you were making a bribe to engage in a process that had already occurred?

I did not call it a bribe earlier on.

A facilitation to facilitate a process that had already occurred.

The nod should go on record. You have not said yes.

Yes.

That must be your conclusion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am remaining with just two questions.

Counsel, I had given you five minutes.

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I can see I have a few seconds left.

That is why I am telling you that this must be your last question.

Mr. Misati.

Yes, Sir.

You explained that the reason you went with your father to this meeting was to act as a witness to the facilitation fee being paid.

Yes.

Were your brothers who you also say were there also witnesses?

This was my money---

No, I am not asking you whose money it was. Were your brothers also witnesses to this facilitation fee?

Yes, they were present.

Have you called any of them as your witnesses to support that fact?

I have not.

Are you afraid they will say something different?

Sorry.

Are you afraid that they will say something different or side with your father and say that that was his money?

I do not know the communication, but I took it at a personal level.

This is my last question. The follow up that we discussed from the EACC, at page 16 of the Deputy Governor's (DG's) bundle, can you see that letter?

Yes.

When was it received at the EACC?

It was written on 20th February.

20th February of which year?

2024, this year.

Was it after the Motion had already been moved at the County Assembly?

It was before.

Was the Motion not placed at the County Assembly on the 13th?

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Yes. I cannot tell the particulars of the issues.

Okay. Thank you. Mr. Misati.

Mr. Ndegwa, we need to guide you in terms of time. How much time do you need for---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for re-examination, we will take cumulatively a total of about six minutes.

Proceed, then we will guide on the subsequent witnesses.

Dennis, do you recall being asked a question why your mother was sending the money to you?

Yes, I remember.

Have you heard the allegation that this was a debt that was being paid?

Yes.

You have also confirmed that the Deputy Governor and your father had the traditions of sending money to each other previously, right?

Yes.

Were you involved in those transactions before?

No. I was not.

Can you confirm that this is the only transaction that you are involved?

Yes, this was the first and the only one that I was involved in.

Can you confirm that the purpose of which you are involved is because the matter related directly to you in search of a job?

Yes.

Confirm that the facilitation fee was sought by the Deputy Governor.

Yes.

Further confirm that, it is your father who told you that the Deputy Governor has placed a demand for purposes of securing that job?

Yes.

Further confirm that, it is your father who told you to send the Kshs200,000 to Mr. Monda?

Yes. He is the one.

Further confirm that, during the time at which you sent or the transaction was commenced, the recruitment for that post had not occurred.

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Yes.

You have been asked and taken through the Statement about the gambling. Right?

Yes.

Did the gambling come before you sold the salon or after?

It was after I sold the salon.

That is a confirmation that Dr. Monda rendered you destitute.

Yes, it is true.

I will take you, then I yield to Mr. Mutuma. Hon. Senators, I am referring to our bundle of documents. The big book, volume I, page 189. As they open page 189, do you recall, a question was put to you as, between the Deputy Governor and your father who approached who?

Yes.

Are you at page 189?

Yes, I am there.

Can you see where we have Mr. Katwa Kigen asking questions and where you have the Hon. Deputy Governor answering?

Yes.

I want you to read the paragraph that begins, “Mr. Speaker, just as a good friend, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April, I was made to know that there is an advert--- Please read that paragraph.

It reads, “Mr. Speaker, just as good friends---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the HANSARD for 29th February, 2023 that took place at the County Assembly of Kisii. What is the Deputy Governor saying in that Statement?

It says- “Mr. Speaker, just as good friends, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April, I was made to know that there is an advert that has come up at GWASCO and Misati as a friend would ask me that his son has also tendered his application. Is it possible for him to be assisted to get a job?”

Who is making that averment? Is it you, your father, or the Deputy Governor?

It is the Deputy Governor.

Is he confirming that he was involved in search of that job in your favour?

Yes.

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Is he confirming that, Mr. Misati, your father, is the one who approached him for the purpose of that job?

Yes.

Who is the issue being referred to as ‘son’ in these circumstances?

I am the son.

You were put to task to explain why you cried and you said that you cried because of your money.

Yes.

Is there any other reason that made you cry?

Yes. I lost my baby.

While you are at that stand, did you hear the Speaker direct that the Serjeant-at-Arms does take charge of another cry that came from the Gallery?

I am sorry for that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in your directions for re-examination, the direction is that re-examination be targeted at issues that were canvassed in the evidence-in-chief. We did not make any reference of anybody in the Gallery or the Serjeant-at-Arms. That issue should not be introduced.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Very well, Mr. Ndegwa---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with due respect to the Senior Counsel, if you may---

Listen, the Chair is on the microphone. Guide your witness. Do proper exam. You are a practitioner.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I believe counsel having practised for many years than I have, knows that facts initio or facts not initio can become an issue? There is a question as to why the cry? Dennis, I am sorry for that ordeal. Do you connect the loss of your child by any means to the proceedings, or to whatever happened between you and the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I do.

Finally, Dennis, as I yield. At the time, the Deputy Governor sought for this money had recruitment been made?

It had not yet.

When was the interview?

The interview was on 25th May.

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When was the recruitment?

It was done later, around August-September?

Around July?

Yes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I yield to Mr. Mutuma.

Thank you, my friend. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I have three questions. One, Mr. Dennis Misati, during the cross-examination, you were put to task to explain why in your Statement, you said that money was transacted from your father's Mpesa to the Deputy Governor's Mpesa, yet evidence shows that it came from Co- operative Bank. Can you explain whether this transaction was a mobile banking transaction, or was it a direct withdrawal from Co-operative Bank? What was the nature of that transaction?

I think it was a mobile banking transaction.

Then, whether it was from Mpesa or not, it is your father's gadget that was used to transact.

Yes, it was my father's.

Thank you. You have also been accused of being a criminal who bribes.

Yes.

Offering a bribe is a crime.

Yes.

What motivated you to offer, what you are now calling facilitation? Was it because you had a criminal mentality, or what was the motivating factor? What drove you to give the Kshs800,000?

It was the urgency to get a decent employment. Like any other youth out there, we always hope for the best. If you get decent employment, that is for the betterment of the family.

You have been accused of being a gambler and we have seen that occasionally you gamble spending a negligible amount of money in gambling. Is it in your nature to gamble?

No.

What led you to begin gambling?

It was due to the hard times. It was another means of trying luck.

A source of livelihood?

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Yes.

Thank you. That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We wish to dispense with this witness at this moment and call our next witness.

Witness, you may--- Yes, Sen. Sifuna.

Unless hon. Senators have questions.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Counsel, before you do, we have a few interventions. I wanted some clarity on two issues. This concern is addressed to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Could you tell me what conclusions you wanted this House to draw from that cross-examination on the witness’s gambling history? Secondly, I want to know from the defence whether there is an admission or it is the position of the defence that a crime was committed and, therefore, the witness is a criminal.

Before SC Katwa Kigen responds to that, if there are any clarifications that hon. Members would want to get from the respective counsels, we will limit to two minutes per person so that we keep time and go ahead. Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen, you have the Floor?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on the two questions that have been put to me, we pray that the Senate draws its conclusion based on the data on the gambling. All we are asking is to treat the testimony of the complainant with circumspection. We would want you to take what he says with an amount of caution that he is not necessarily saying the truth. Also, from where he comes, he is inclined to get things freely and cheaply. On the question of him having admitted a crime meaning that we are admitting the crime, we are not making any admission. We are merely saying that in the quest that he has put in his letter of complaint, he is determined to have the Deputy Governor punished to a point that he is prepared to incriminate himself and make an admission of having committed a crime. He is ready to shoot his foot, provided that he gets the Deputy Governor punished. That is the sense in which we are raising the point of his admission of the crime. We are also saying that you should treat him with circumspection. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I hope I have answered the questions. I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a question I want to ask the young gentleman. I realised that all the transactions you were making were done at night. Was there a reason? Why that was the case?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor called us to his home between seven heading to eight. That was when we went to his home. We sat there until 9.00 p.m. and then left his home.

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Sen. Joe Nyutu is not in. We can have Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my question is to SC Katwa Kigen. The witness has attempted to demonstrate the facilitation of Kshs800,000. You have challenged the witness and given the impression that the witness was involved in criminal activities. Counsel, can you help me? If you want me to believe by dint of that suggestion that the witness is a criminal, are you, therefore, admitting that the recipient, who is the Deputy Governor, is equally criminally implicated?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the question that my learned friend, Sen. Sifuna, had asked and our answer remains the same. Our position is that the Kshs800,000 was a refund and that there is no relationship between payment that was remitted to Dr. Monda and any allegation of bribery. It is also our position that there is such a concerted effort to impeach and damage the name of the Deputy Governor that the witness is prepared to incriminate himself, if that is the only measure that will need to be taken for the Deputy Governor to be punished. There is a possibility that he has not committed that crime and that does not believe in bribery. However, since it is the only way to ensure achievement of punishment to the Deputy Governor, he is prepared to say that he has committed that crime, so that it places the matter before you. We are not making any admission of any wrongdoing. I hope I have answered your question, Sen. Sifuna.

Fair enough. Take your seat, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Let us listen to Sen. Wambua.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will stay with that line of questioning to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Supposing there is an admission on the part of the witness, that indeed he participated in a criminal activity, would that absolve the Deputy Governor from liability of a similar crime? Secondly, you said the reason you are pushing that line of gambling is to demonstrate before this House that the witness cannot be relied on and that he has a history of using easy ways to get money. Is it then your admission that we should never expect any truth from a person who gambles?

Yes, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we make no admission. For argument’s sake, if that was the case and the witness was to say that in his state of mind, he gave out the amount deeming it to be a bribe, then there is no corresponding state of mind on the part of the Deputy Governor that he was receiving a bribe. The Deputy Governor was receiving a refund of money he had given to the parents of my friend, Dennis. On the part of the Deputy Governor, his position is that he was receiving a refund of his money. If on the part of the state of the witness’ mind is that

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he was giving out a bribe, then that has nothing to do with the culpability of the Deputy Governor. On the question of gambling, I did not intend to say that my friend, Mr. Misati, is involved in gambling and that necessarily makes him completely unbelievable. I was only saying that his testimony should be treated with circumspection. You should exercise caution in entertaining what he has said and the truth of what he is saying. However, I am not saying that it is utterly and completely nothing.

Thank you, Senior Counsel. Hon. Members, I will only allow one last person to make that inquiry, Sen. Thang’wa, so that we progress from there to the next witness.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have one question for the witness. The question is that I would want to know his feeling that his father is coming to testify against him. If the witness got the job, could he have complained? Mr. Dennis, proceed to---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on humanitarian ground, it is very sad and emotional that my dad is against the reality and the truth. He is colluding with somebody who took my money. He is calling for a refund instead of what we call facilitation. It is not a good feeling as a son. The second question you asked is if the facilitation I was asked was needed and led me get the job, why would I be here? I would be comfortably be working in the office. Thank you.

Hon. Members, my dashboard is full. You are all aware this is a time bound proceeding and we must progress. How do we progress? I will not allow any additional Member to seek any clarification. We will have a period within which to get those confirmations at our time. I will, therefore, direct that the witness can step down. Thank you very much, Dennis. Counsel, proceed to call your next witness. As you prepare to call the witness, you will indicate the time that you will require for that particular witness so that we cap the time you will take the examination-in-chief as well as cross-examination. For purposes of time, it is now 12 minutes past 6 p.m. You have taken with your first witness over two hours 30 minutes. What is remaining is one hour and 20 minutes. I need to know how much time you will require for your next witness.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. For purpose of this witness who was the Mover of the Motion, we will need approximately 30 minutes for examine chief.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

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I will give you less. I will give you 20 minutes.

Okay, we will try to make do. Thank you.

Mr. Ndegwa, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Our next witness is Hon. Wycliff Siocha.

You may proceed to be sworn in.

Would you kindly state your names and your qualification and what you do for purposes of record?

My name is Wycliff Siocha Gesongori. I am an elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) for Kisii County Assembly representing the people of Ichuni Ward. I am a financial manager, a banker by profession and the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation in the County Assembly of Kisii. I am also a Member of the Committee on Health and also Liaison Committee, a family man and a father.

What was your role in respect to this Motion?

I was the Mover.

You were the Mover of the Motion?

Yes.

You have charged the Deputy Governor with offenses ranging from gross violation of the Constitution, misconduct and violation of the written law and abuse of office. Is that it?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Why have you placed a charge or why have you preferred the said charges? If you were to begin with the charge. Perhaps before we go to the charges, how were you seized of these matters?

The genesis of the Motion before you was as a result of a complaint letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati.

When is the date of the complaint letter?

The complaint letter was received in my office on 21st of December and was addressed to me. It was written by Mr. Dennis Misati.

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Hon. Members, I am referring to the letter at page one of the County Assembly bundle of document, page 1. Is that the letter dated the 19th?

Yes, that is the letter.

Is that the letter that formed the basis of your impeachment Motion?

Yes, that is the letter.

Counsel Ndegwa, hold on. Sen. Cheptumo, you know how to catch the eye of the Chair. What is your point of intervention?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I do not intend to interrupt the proceedings, but the witness should rely on his affidavit. He has not been able to confirm to the House that he is relying on the affidavit in his evidence. That is very important.

Sen. Cheptumo, the witness is led by a counsel. I do not expect you to direct on how he wants. Let him proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the protection.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had said that the genesis of the Motion before this Senate was as a result of the letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati. It is dated 19th but it was received in my office on 21st December,2023.

Let us go to the first charge that appears at page 15 of the bundle of document by the County Assembly. That is the Motion. Are you there?

Yes.

You have charged him for violating the Constitution; Article 73, Article 74 and Article 75. Yes?

That is true.

Did you conduct any preliminary investigations before?

Yes, I did.

What was revealed in your investigation?

In my investigation, what was revealed was that, indeed, there was canvasing between the Deputy Governor involving the family of one Joseph Misati and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for the GWASCO.

What were the canvasing for?

First, there is a meeting that was initiated by the Deputy Governor which took place in his home and the members present in that meeting were the family members of one Joseph Misati. Also present in that meeting was one Dennis Misati who had already done an interview with GWASCO for the position of commercial manager.

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Did you confirm in your investigation, whether that interview or that advertisement or application was actually there?

Yes, I did. I made a follow-up to the office of the Director; the Managing Director, and made inquiries on exactly what transpired. She did a statement to my office, which is annexed here. She also provided me with the M- pesa statement because the allegations were that she also received a portion of the money. So she gave me or rather provided me her M-pesa Statement, which indeed I confirmed that there was money that was sent from the M-pesa number for one, Deputy Governor Robert Onsare Monda, to the M-pesa number for one, Lucy Wahito. Again, on the same, I noted that the money was reversed again after two days.

Did you confirm the purpose as to why Mr. Deputy Governor received the money from Dennis Misati and Joseph Misati?

Yes. From my investigations, I noted that upon Mr. Misati doing the interview, they went home on the invitation of the Deputy Governor, and the Deputy Governor promised to help them get the job by offering a small fee. They call it a small fee. So, a small fee in this question is a whooping Kshs800,000.However, what I know from my investigation, the total amount of money that was given to one Deputy Governor, Monda, was 799,000.

Did you get to know who triggered this action as to who moved the Deputy Governor for this position? If yes, were you in the County Assembly on the 29th of February, 2022? If yes, did you witness him testifying to that effect of the evidence appearing at page 189 of the bundle by the County Assembly? Did you witness the Deputy Governor confirming that he was soliciting for favours?

I was there. I heard him personally say.

Did you witness him confirming that he approached both the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the GWASCO?

Yes, I heard him confirm.

On page 189 of the bundle of documents, what document is that?

That is the HANSARD report for the Kisii County Assembly proceedings.

What is the Deputy Governor saying in the last paragraph?

The Deputy Governor says- “Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as good friends, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April was made to know that there is an advertisement that has come up in GWASCO. Mr. Misati, as a friend, could ask that his son has also tendered his application. Is it possible for him to be assisted to get the job?’’

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Yes, what is he confirming?

He is confirming that indeed he has canvased

Did you confirm that canvasing and to whom is he referring when he speaks about a son?

He is referring to one, Mr. Dennis Misati. Who had already tendered his application towards the Commercial Manager position.

In the pursuit of the truth, did you ever meet one, Lucy Wahito?

Yes, I met her.

If yes, what did you confirm that she does at Kisii County?

I confirmed that she is the Managing Director for the GWASCO.

Did you confirm that she was involved in these acts of bribery?

Yes, I confirmed because she revealed to me that the Deputy Governor summoned her to his office and made it known to her that he had a friend who has a son who is interested in the position of the Commercial Manager, which had already been put on the dailies and that the application process was ongoing.

Did you confirm whether Lucy, prior to the sending of the money, had met the Deputy Governor?

Yes, they had met.

Under what circumstances did Lucy disclose to you that they met?

Upon receiving the letter from one Dennis Misati, I started doing my own investigations to ascertain the whole material facts that had been given to me by Dennis Mr. Joseph Misati. That prompted me to visit the office of the Managing Director in pursuit of getting all the information and exactly the transaction that involved them between the Deputy Governor and herself. That is Lucy.

So, you confirm that the Deputy Governor did approach one Lucy in favour of a job?

Yes, he did and summoned her to his office.

Again confirm at page 189 of the same bundle of documents by the County Assembly, the last paragraph where the Deputy Governor is testifying.

Yes?

Were you at the County Assembly at that particular time?

Yes, I was present.

Kindly lead out to the hon. Senators as to what the Deputy Governor indicated on the record.

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This is the answer to the report and this is what the Hon. Deputy Governor had to say before the Assembly- “Like any other leader, Mr. Speaker, this request came to me. Everyone, Hon. Members knows that Lucy in GWASCO would work under, like many staff who work under the Governor’s Office where I am also the Deputy Governor. So, I indicated to Lucy, asking her if they had such kind of jobs and she said, yes. A friend is making a request that he get his son a job like every one of us here could do. She told me, let us wait for the process and if he qualifies, we shall not deny him the job.” The discussions ended there.

Have you confirmed that he did confirm on the record that he approached Lucy for that favour?

Yes.

Does it, therefore, surprise you that Kshs100,000 is sent to Lucy?

It does not surprise me at all.

At what period were the Kshs100,000 sent?

It was after the interview. It was sent on 28 May, around 9 a.m.

I want you to have a look at the Deputy Governor's defense.

The money was sent to Lucy because it is on page 99 of the DGs submission. The money was sent to one Lucy Wahito on 28th May, 2023, at 21.24.13. It was after a few minutes past 2100 hrs.

Did she confirm to you what she immediately did after the receipt of the saved monies?

Upon receipt of the money, the Deputy Governor did not call her. However, on the morning of 29th, the one Lucy called the Deputy Governor. Upon calling the Deputy Governor, the Deputy Governor confirmed to her that the sent amount was in reference to the discussions they had with her in his office.

Is Lucy one of the witnesses that you have lined up for cross-examination?

Yes.

Now, allow me to lead you to page four of the bundle of documents by the Deputy Governor. Most importantly, paragraph 13. Are you there?

Yes, I am there.

At page 13, is the Deputy Governor confirming that they have been friends with one Joseph Misati for over 30 years?

Yes, he is confirming that.

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Kindly read paragraph “C”.

Paragraph C of the...

You can begin from “B”.

Okay, paragraph B of 13 reads – “Mr. Joseph Misati and his whole family were there for me when my daughter died around 2018. Clause C says, we asked each other for possible favours and these include borrowing each other and refunding agro vet stocks, borrowing each other and refunding money, favours like helping each other look out for votes, business opportunities, jobs, education, and other social welfare openings, especially our children.”

So, he further confirms through his affidavit that he is in the habit of seeking these favours.

Yes, he does confirm.

Permit me to take you to paragraph eight of the said bundle of document by the Deputy Governor appearing on page 3. Are you at paragraph 8?

Yes.

Can you confirm that you were treated with malice and ill feeling at the time you actuated this Motion against the Deputy Governor? Before that please confirm that you are the Member of the County Assembly (MCA) referred to in paragraph 8.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and for the record, it is immoral---

Please confirm that you are the MCA referred to.

I confirm that I am the MCA referred to.

Have you internalized those allegations contained therein?

I have internalized all of them.

Have you seen that the Deputy Governor indicates and alleges that you actuated by malice and ill will against him?

Yes, I have seen.

He labels you as an extortionist, a person who has insatiable greed for money and that he sent you approximately Kshs40,000 and that he could not cope with your demand for more money.

Yes.

That when the demand ceased you actuated this Motion?

That is what he has said.

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What do you have to say about that?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the purpose of record in this hon. House, it is immoral, unethical and a sin, not only before men, but also before God for the Deputy Governor to twist the material fact before---

What was transpiring at the time when these monies were sent to you?

In the said month, I lost my aunt; one of the closest aunts who had raised me and we had a funeral during that period. The first tranche that he sent on 7th, I remember, I received a call from the Deputy Governor at around noon; it was a few minutes to noon when he called to pass the condolence message following the sudden death of my aunt.

So, you confirm that this money was sent to you by the Deputy Governor to facilitate the funeral of your aunt?

Yes, I confirm.

Did he ever attend that funeral?

He attended in person.

Do you have evidence?

I have the evidence.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I ask that the IT Department plays that video clip which is referred to as “Burial”.

Serjent-at-Arms, please process that video clip to play.

Please play the first one minute and the last one minute.

Who is that speaking?

That is myself speaking and next to me is my wife and those are the children that my aunt left.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether all the Members of the Assembly are able to follow that language, or perhaps we need an interpreter

Mr. Ndegwa, what language is that?

I guess that is the Kisii Language.

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Can we find one for Kiswahili or Sign Language?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we brought that to the attention of the Clerk. The Clerk indicated that they will provide an interpreter for us.

Can you run the clip to the end, I will give directions on its admissibility. Or perhaps Sen. Omogeni could be interested in interpreting.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while a few of us have the benefit of following, I am sure majority of the Senators, including Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, may not be able to follow. We will be listening to this clip for 10 minutes, but nobody will be following. Maybe, you could give direction that an interpreter be availed to concurrently make an interpretation so that the Senators are able to follow. It would also have been nice if we had a written script interpreting what is being said in English so that we are able to follow. However, I do not think it will serve any purpose for the clip to be played while more than three-quarters of the Senators are not following.

Senior Counsel, that is exactly what the Chair was doing. I am informed that we now have an interpreter who can just be ushered in to run us through the interpretation. Kindly, replay the clip. Let it start and let us have the interpreter to interpret.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for purposes of expediency, we can play the first one minute and the last one minute.

Mr. Ndegwa, just hold on. What is your point of order, Sen. Onyonka?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my suggestion would be, because it is allowed under the rules of the House and I do not have the Standing Orders; we could allow the clip that is being played to be taken by the Speaker’s office, allow somebody to interpret it and then it is forwarded to us when we will be doing our review tomorrow morning as we proceed. This is because somebody might interpret---

There is already an interpreter. Hon. Members, we now have an interpreter in the House and for purposes of record and clarity, the interpreter is a Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) staffer who has been seconded to the Senate and is, therefore, fully entitled to support in interpretation. I will direct that we run the clip so that as the clip runs, we can get the interpretation from the gentleman who has been ushered in. Clerk, let us run the clip.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for expediency, the first minute and the last minute are the ones that are relevant.

Okay, please run the first one minute and the last one minute of the clip

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In the first statement, he is giving his message and saying that he is so sorry that death has come at that early stage when the aunt had all the plans to make sure that her children would grow and so she had a plan to buy them a piece of land, but those plans have been cut short.

Proceed to run the remainder of that video clip.

Kindly stop it there. Let us run small bytes for purposes of interpretation.

He has given his message. He has said sorry and appreciated the community for the effort they have put in making the ceremony a success.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can they play the last part of it?

Kindly play the last part.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the Deputy Governor for Kisii County. He has said that he would like to be there for the entirety of the funeral, but he is forced to leave because of another ceremony that he is going to attend as he is to represent the Governor. He is giving the message to the MCA,

is the name he is referring to. He is telling him to take good care of the children that have remained behind.

Continue with the video clip.

Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor is giving out the Erongori or support that the Governor has sent him, which is Kshs20,000. He is referring it that way because it is being given to the children and he does not know the name to refer the amount to.

Continue with the video clip.

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Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor has asked who he is to give the amount to and he has finally handed it over to the Embande and he has told him that it is the children’s kitty.

Who is the Embande ?

Embande refers to the area MCA. He has told him to make sure the amount goes to the children’s kitty. He also said goodbye and God bless.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I think we can stop at that. Mr. witness, is that the funeral that the Deputy Governor---

Mr. Ndegwa, kindly hold on. Proceed, Sen. Omogeni. I wanted to reprimand you, but---

Pardon me, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not an expert in translating from Gusii to English. However, I want you to allow me to seek one clarification from my brother, Mr. Isaac Agwata. I want him to confirm from the video clip that was played whether the Deputy Governor is saying that they had assisted the MCA in preparation of the funeral, which should be distinguished from the Erongori that he had brought to the funeral. I want him to confirm whether that was made in the Deputy Governor’s speech.

Yes. He indicated that they had given him support. Whatever he was giving that day was Erongori and not support.

Thank you, Mr. Agwata, you are released. Mr. Ndegwa, you may proceed and also take note of the time. I am sure you have been alerted to the minutes you have.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I shall be making an application for the restoration of the time we have wasted while looking for the interpreter.

We did not waste time. We will take care of the amount of time. You will be accommodated.

We are most obliged. Okay, when was this funeral?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was in the month of May.

Which date to be exact if you can remember?

She died around the 5th May, so the funeral run to the 20th May.

(Njiru Ndegwa)

Yes

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(Mr. Njiru Ndegwa)

Yes. In his message to me, he stated that because there would be more visitors going to the family and he knows money is needed for hospitality services----

It was for hospitality?

Yes.

How about the 28th and 29th?

When I was escorting the Deputy Governor out of the funeral, he promised to send some money towards the children’s kitty. They had told me that the children who had been left were very young---

Is that the money that was being sent?

Yes, that is the money that he sent.

Therefore, is it the habit of the Deputy Governor to deny the truth and paint the person speaking the truth as liars?

Yes.

During the proceedings of this impeachment, did you conduct public participation.

Yes, we conducted it as an Assembly.

What forms did the public participation take?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they were conducted at the sub-county and ward level.

What forms did they take? Did you have people submit memoranda?

There were people submitting memoranda and there were those who came for the physical meetings at the various venues that had been spelled out by---

What was the purpose of the public participation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was to get the opinion of the electorate of Kisii County on this issue that was before the Assembly.

Did you get that feedback?

Yes, we got the feedback.

What was the nature of the feedback?

The nature of the feedback was through written memoranda and physical submissions when the meetings were being conducted.

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During the public participation, did you have people speaking to the issues of the Motion.

Yes, we had.

Do you have those video clips before the Senate and would you wish to play them?

The video clips are there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we request that clip No. 1 be played.

As you do that, just for your comfort, whenever we have such interventions, your time does not move. However, for guidance’s sake, you have three minutes to conclude on your examination.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am most obliged. Let us proceed to video Clip No.2.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think we still need the interpreter.

Is there any other clip that you shall require interpretation on?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Let us then have the interpreter, Mr. Agwata, here until such a time when we will be done with him.

We are most guided.

Now that he is back, kindly play clip No. 1.

What is she saying?

I have not gotten her name

She is called Irene, Mama wa

She is Irene and she is asking that they have given this position to hon. Monda. Hon. Monda started asking for bribes. She is selling

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She is asking whether she can take the children to school if Dr. Monda is asking for a bribe to give a bursary.

Play the next clip.

He is Shem Monda from Moticho ward. He is saying that when bursaries are being given out, he was asked for Kshs20,000 for him to be given a bursary. He was persuaded until the Kshs7,000 he had was taken.

Has he identified the person who is asking for that amount?

Yes.

Who is he?

Dr. Monda

Kindly recap what you have said.

Mr. Ndegwa, that was clear. He has run the House through what was said.

Play the next clip.

Mr. Ndegwa, how many more clips?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are at the final one. There is the last clip about an old man with the issues of land and fraud. This is a very interesting clip. We have many for the interest of time, we will run this clip as the last one.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we can stop at that, as I finalise with this witness. Did he swear an affidavit before this assembly?

Yes, he swore an affidavit.

Is that the affidavit appearing on page 283 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly? Volume 1?

It is the one appearing.

Is he confirming those assertions and allegations in his affidavit?

Yes, he is.

Is he confirming that the price of land was Kshs500,000, but was negotiated to Kshs200,000?

Yes.

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Is he confirming that the balance of Kshs300,000 was to be set off by Dr. Monda by employing his sons?

Yes.

Let us go to the clip that came from Masimba Ward. I want to refer you to page 36 of the bundle of documents the same that hon. Senators are holding. It indicates that there was no public participation at the venue. Yes?

Yes, it indicates so.

Explain the source of the clip that you have played.

The County Assembly did two dailies; that is in the Daily Nation and The Standard newspapers inviting the members of the public to appear in different sub-county venues. So, the members of the public had the opportunity to either attend at the sub-county level or ward level. Since, the initiative of going to the ward level was of us as MCAs.

Where was the clip recorded from?

It was recorded in Kesusu, where the sub- county venue for Masaba South public participation was done for.

I am satisfied with that answer. Let us move to the question of the abuse of office. Yes?

Yes.

You have accused the Deputy Governor of abuse of office. Yes?

Yes.

And that he deployed 20 county enforcement officers to procure an arrest?

Yes.

Did you confirm that?

Yes. I confirmed.

Have you lined up a witness to come and confirm that allegation?

Yes. There is a witness already lined up to come and witness.

What action has the County Assembly, through the oversight mechanism, initiated to confirm the veracity of that position?

It is in one of our departmental Committee on Labour. So, it is an issue that is currently under investigation.

Did you confirm whether or not the 20 officers were appropriately or procedurally deployed by the person in charge of deployment?

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They were unprocedurally and unlawfully deployed.

Did you confirm between the police officers and the county enforcement officers who arrested Reuben Monda, the brother to the Deputy Governor?

Actually, it is the county enforcement officers. They are the ones who even forced Reuben Monda to enter into one of the vehicles that was provided there.

Is Mr. Reuben Monda one of your witnesses to confirm that?

Yes. He is one of my witnesses.

It is your allegation that the Deputy Governor has deployed, unlawfully and unprocedurally, four enforcement officers to do manual works, odd jobs like milking and cooking for dogs?

Yes.

Did you confirm that allegation?

I confirmed.

Is that proper application of his role or functions of the Deputy Governor?

It is not proper.

Have you lined up a witness to confirm whether or not all these deployments were procedural?

Yes.

Did you summon? How is the witness coming?

The County Assembly of Kisii, through the Senate, requested, Agayo Oyagi, who is the current Acting Director of Enforcement of Kisii County.

Was he a witness at the County Assembly?

He was not a witness.

Finally, what would you want these hon. Senators, to do, in respect to your motion?

Hon. Senators, this was one of the hard decisions that I had to make. For one reason that the Deputy Governor for Kisii, Dr. Robert Monda, is a very close friend of mine and, on the other side, I had this young man who was miserable and had already been duped his money. So, I had to make a tough decision. I was not only doing this for Mr. Dennis Misati, but for the many jobless poor youths outside there, who have found themselves in the hands of unsuspecting civil servants, public officers and State officers. These people solicit funds from them in the promise that they can be give them jobs, but at the end of the day, they end up not having jobs.

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I am, therefore, requesting and pleading with this House to set a precedence and give hope to the many youths outside there, not only to Mr. Dennis--- Ensure that Mr. Dennis gets justice at the end of the day. Let the law follow its course. My plea is that let the Deputy Governor for Kisii County carry his cross.

Finally, I want to refer you to the bundle of document by the Deputy Governor, on his defence. The defence appearing as such, and refer you to page E8 to page 16.

Which page?

Page 8 also put as E8, all the way to page 16, but we can stop at page 15. Have you gone through that defence?

I have gone through the defence.

Are those averments and allegations related and relevant to this proceeding?

They are absolutely not related to this proceeding.

The question of harassment and intimidation by the Deputy Governor towards Mr. Dennis Misati, did you establish these averments?

When Mr. Dennis Misati approached me, I think it was earlier December. He confided in me that his life was in danger. The communication that he relayed to me was from his father and it was being relayed on behalf of the Deputy Governor, when Dennis Misati gave an indication that he was going to record a statement with the EACC.

Are you aware where Mr. Dennis Misati and his wife are currently living?

No. I do not know where they are currently living.

Did you establish how Mr. Dennis Misati raised the Kshs800, 000?

Yes. I spoke with him and he told me he was running a saloon in Ruai. He had been given instructions by his father that by the assurance of the Deputy Governor, that the job was being given to him, some money was needed. Therefore, he sold the businesses because he had to relocate. He sold his entire household, ---

Thank you. Did he confirm to you whether or not that transaction had any effect to his family?

Yes.

What did he tell you?

Which transaction, sorry?

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The sale of the salon, household goods, forwarding of the Kshs800, 000 to the Deputy Governor and the failure to secure a job. All those transactions, did they affect Dennis family in any way?

Yes. They affected his family.

In which way?

He told me that, by the time all these things were happening and upon realisation that they had not secured the job, they had lost all the money that they had committed into this process. He told me that his wife was expectant and, in the process, he lost the pregnancy. Equally, he has also gone through a lot of frustrations and he is under stress.

Is it as a result of confidentiality of patient-doctor that you have not forwarded documents before this assembly?

That is true?

Thank you.

Additionally, for record purposes, the person who took Dennis’ wife to the hospital is his father.

Confirm that again.

Mr. Ndegwa, you have done 14 minutes outside the time you requested.

I am well guided. I yield the witness for cross-examination.

Proceed, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

Good evening

Good evening to you, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

Proceed and be mindful of the 20 minutes time that I have allocated you.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is your testimony that you indeed conducted verification of the allegations that you are bringing against the Deputy Governor.

Yes.

That includes the question of whether or not he received a bribe from Mr. Dennis.

Yes.

Whether he sent a bribe to Lucy?

Yes.

Whether he threatened him?

Yes.

He used Kisii County staff?

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Yes.

Now, let us start with the County Assembly. It is true that you issued the notice of intention to move a motion of impeachment on the 13th?

Yes.

The Senate can take the date as being 13th?

Yes.

You were subsequently there on the 21st when you moved your Motion?

Yes. I was there.

Eventually, you were there on the 29th when the motion was discussed and the Deputy Governor was afforded the chance to defend himself?

Yes. I was there.

And a voting was done?

Yes, I was there.

On that occasion of 29th, did you play these clips of public participation?

No, I did not play them. They were not---

You did not play them, is it not?

The report was provided and tabled before the Assembly for public participation.

When you were moving your Motion, you did not play them, is it not?

There was a report---

Answer my question. When tabling your Motion, you did not play them.

No, I did not play, but it was to be provided by the County Assembly.

Just answer my question. So you did not play them yourself? Do you recall them having been played for the Deputy Governor to see at that time?

No.

They were not played. I take it that as you stand here, you are familiar with the County Governments Act and Standing Orders that are relevant.

Yes.

Okay. What is your understanding of how a Motion for Impeachment is supposed to be moved?

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First is by giving a Notice to the County Assembly and then subsequently---

Are you aware of the provisions of Section 15 of the County Governments Act on how to initiate a process of impeachment?

Yes, I am aware.

Did you comply with that process?

Yes, I complied.

It is your position that you complied with Section 15?

Yes.

Did you comply with Standing Order Nos.194 and 195 of the Kisii County Assembly Standing Orders?

Yes, I complied.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because of time, I will deal with that in the legal arguments. I would like you to go to the bundle from the County Government. I would like us to go to page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there.

Could you confirm that from pages 96 to 103 are proceedings of 29th where you moved your Motion, voting was done and the Deputy Governor was heard in his defence? Is that correct?

Yes.

Let us start with page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there.

Do you confirm what I have said, that the defence of the Deputy Governor, voting, and moving your Motion was on 29th?

Yes.

That heading of “votes and proceedings” is also accurate?

Yes.

I would like us to go to the contents of page 103. You can see where your name is? Can you see where it is stated that Hon. Wycliff Siocha moved the Motion?

Yes.

Hon. Members, I am referring to page 103 of the County Assembly bundle. That is the one that has different colours. The Motion was seconded by Hon. Karen Magara. Can you see that?

Yes, I can see.

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Then the Motion was proposed. I would like you to read what comes after that. Could you read from where hon. Henry Moracha is talking?

The leader of majority party rose on Standing Order No.93 on adjournment of debate to allow public participation, pursuant to Article 196 of the Constitution of Kenya.

That true position that on 29th--- We have already agreed that from pages 96 to 103 were the the County Assembly proceedings of 29th. On page 103, it is stated that a Motion was moved to proceed to public participation by Hon. Henry Moracha. Is this correct?

I think there was a mix-up of documents because---

Please answer my question.

It is not correct.

This contention that the events of 29th entailed moving of a Motion for Adjournment for public participation on 29th is incorrect?

That is what I am saying, counsel. This is not a true position. Probably there was a mix-up of documents because---

Mheshimiwa, I am the one asking you questions. The HANSARD brought to this Senate says that on 29th, proceedings were adjourned for purposes of going to public participation. Are you saying that this HANSARD is incorrect?

This is not a HANSARD report.

What is it?

It is part of the Motion that I moved. What I am seeing here is purely a mix-up of documents because the HANSARD report for 29th---

Which question are you answering?

Let me explain on the question you asked, counsel.

When you at page 96, it says; the House assembled at 9.000 a.m., proceedings were opened with a word of prayer, then there was a Motion for removal from office, by way of Impeachmen of the Deputy Governor, by Hon. Wycliff Siocha Gesongori. You can read all that on those pages. There were interventions by various people. On page 103, you confirmed that you moved the Motion as is indicated and Hon. Magara seconded it. So far, that is correct, is it not?

That is correct to that level.

You are saying this is not the HANSARD report?

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This is not the HANSARD report. The HANSARD report is there and it is attached.

When the County Assembly tells the Senate that this is what happened on 29th, are you saying that what they are telling the Senate on page 103 is inaccurate?

That is true.

Secondly, you and I have agreed that on the same day, 29th February, 2024, was a Thursday, is it not?

Yes, it was a Thursday.

On that day, votes were done, is it not?

Yes.

And 53 of you said the Deputy Governor should be impeached and the others said he should not be impeached.

Yes.

Yes.

From pages 96 to 103, can you see that report of those events at the County Assembly on that day?

That is why I still insist that there is a mix-up of---

Please answer my question. Is there a report of the fact that on 29th, voting happened and a resolution was made to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not there.

On that second basis, this document is inaccurate, is it not?

It is inaccurate.

I would like us to move to page 137. Hon. Members, I am still referring to the same bundle by the County Government on the contents of page 137. Is that a HANSARD report or you still maintain it is not?

That is the HANSARD report.

May we look at page 137? It says; County Assembly of Kisii, Official Report, Special Sitting. The events of 29th was a Special Sitting for purposes of discussing the impeachment, is it not?

Yes.

The Special Sitting was held on 29th February. Could you tell this Senate when the Assembly sat? Which day of the week was it?

Come up again.

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It shows 29th February, 2024, but before giving that date, they have stated the day of the week when the sitting was held. What date is that?

The date is 29th February, 2024.

Could you tell the Senate whether that is a correct statement?

It is a correct statement, but there is a typo there.

Are you the one who prepared the HANSARD? Are you responsible for the production of the HANSARD?

No, I am not responsible.

How do you then know it was typographical?

Because I was there. It was on Thursday and I can remember the accounts and the proceedings that we had in the County Assembly.

So, when it says it is Tuesday, is that wrong?

That is a typo error. It is wrong.

Then you will agree with me that even when this Senate wants to look at what you did in the County Assembly, it is true that the HANSARD has been manipulated and even the Senate cannot see?

That is not true.

Okay it is not true. Is it true that 29th was on Tuesday and that you sat on Tuesday?

It was not of course. That is a typo error.

There are other issues I have raised. Okay, I will move on to a different issue, but the point I am making is that because the 53 of you were very determined to remove the deputy governor, you go as far as manipulating the HANSARD.

No, we are not manipulating the HANSARD and we are not that determined, we are just following the law.

You are not determined; you are desperate. I would like us to move on to the Motion that you moved. We agree that you moved the Motion on the 13th, is it not?

I did not move the Motion, but I gave notice of Motion.

I apologies, you are right.

Thank you.

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Now, I would like you to be given this bundle, the one for the deputy governor. Have you been given by my friends?

Yes.

Hon. Members, the document I am referring you to is the one by the deputy governor. I would like you to go to the Motion that you moved that is on page five. Are you on page five please? Can you see that?

Yes.

That is the notice you gave of the intention to move a Motion to impeach the deputy governor.

That is true.

Now, the first thing I want us to agree is that you issued the notice on 13th?

Yes.

As we have already discussed, you eventually managed to move the Motion on 29th and voting was done?

Yes.

Do you agree on the face of it that 10 days would have expired on 23rd and by 29th when the Motion was being moved, discussed, and voted upon, it was already outside the 10 days?

Of course, it was already outside the 10 days.

Did you say of course?

No, sorry, it is outside the 10 days.

Thank you. Now, I would like you to go to page 3A of that same bundle. These are the Standing Orders upon which you moved the Motion, are they not?

Just a minute. I am not getting the page 3A.

You have gone too far; it is a little back. These are the Standing Orders under which you moved the Motion. Standing Order No. 60 to 64, is it not?

Yes.

Now, could we look at Standing Order No. 60(4). Let us start 60(3), it says that-

“A member who has obtained the approval of the Speaker to move a Motion under paragraph one shall give seven days’ notice calling for impeachment of the governor. Upon expiry of the seven days and after notice is given, the Motion shall be placed in the order paper and shall be disposed off within three days”. Do you agree with me that within the intention of that Standing Order, you should have disposed off this Motion within 10 days?

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Yes.

You agree with me on that?

I agree.

I want us to look at 60(1). That is one issue out of the way. Did you eventually agree on the 21st of February to go for public participation?

Yes.

When you went for public participation, you scheduled the public participation for the 26th February. Is it not?

Yes.

Do you also agree that that public participation done on the 26th was already outside the 10 days which ended on the 23rd February. Is it not?

Yes.

Thank you. Now, Standing Order No.60 requires that before giving notice under Section 33 of the County Governments Act, the member shall deliver to the Clerk a copy of the prosed Motion in writing stating the grounds and particulars. Is it not?

Yes.

Could you agree that the notice that you raised did not have these grounds and particulars?

It had the grounds and the particulars in reference to the Kisii County Standing Orders.

We are looking at the document at page 5, is it not? Hon. Members, page 5 of the deputy governor’s bundle. Are you there?

Yes.

That is the notice issued on 13th. Is that not?

Yes.

It is your contention that when we say gross violation of the Constitution, abuse of office, gross misconduct, and crimes under national law, you have complied with the need for grounds and particulars. Is that your position?

All the documentation including the signature- --

Question, apart from this document dated 13th, did you issue anything else?

Yes, I issued.

Where is it? Is it attached to this?

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Yes, they are there because I remember I gave a copy of the grounds on which I was giving the notice of Motion. I gave the signatures of the Members who were in support because I was required---

Apologies because of time. Let us turn from page 5 to page 6. Can you see an attachment of grounds and particulars?

Unfortunately, I am not seeing it.

Have you seen it anywhere else?

Yes, it had been indicated.

Is it the one which is attached to the document on page 6 being the ---

No, they are not the ones.

So, is there another set that the county Assembly has not brought here?

All particulars have been provided for.

I know they have been provided for in the Motion of 21st. What I am saying is; if you are saying they were attachments to the notice of 13th, then the County Assembly has chosen to keep them away.

Maybe.

Now, I would like us then to move to the public participation report that you then came up with, which is in the county Government bundle volume 1. Starting from page 24 to page 51. Are you there?

Yes.

Now, could you confirm to this Senate that the public participation document is on page 24 to page 51?

Yes, I confirm.

Could you confirm that the entirety of that public participation report is not signed by anybody? Nobody has taken possession of it.

Yes.

Now, you said you were present throughout the prosecution of this Motion right from the notice on 13th, 28th- --

Counsel Katwa, your time is up. You should be winding upon your questions.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, considering the volume of the material they brought, they had said 30 minutes and they took about one hour. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I pray for your indulgence. Kindly, this witness makes all the difference, and we pray for your accommodation, kindly.

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How much time are you requesting?

Can I have the same time as they spend, which is about one hour?

No, you cannot. I will give you an additional five minutes.

Could I kindly request for 20 minutes? Please?

Not 20. I am giving you 10, Counsel Katwa.

Thank you. Now, when you were in the Assembly, it is true that, indeed, the deputy governor (DG) complained that he has not been given a copy of the public participation report.

Yes, he complained.

He also defended himself before he saw that report, is that not so?

Yes.

Okay. Now, I want you to look at page 103. You sympathize with me on the way I have been treated on time, is it not so?

On which grounds?

Page 103. Are you at page 103 of the County Assembly report, please? At page 103, as much as we have agreed, that it was misplaced in terms of the date, it was true that Hon. Henry Moracha moved a Motion for public participation.

That is not true. Actually, the County Assembly Majority Leader moved a Motion on 21st, so as to allow public participation.

Is this the name of the---

Give me a minute, Counsel.

Is this the name of the Leader of---

Excuse me, Counsel, I am making a Statement because you have asked a question. This Motion was moved on 21st by the Majority Leader of the Kisii County Assembly, to allow for Members to adjourn so that they can go for public participation, which is not provided for in our Standing Orders. However, remember, the Constitution of Kenya is supreme---

You are going too far. It is okay. So, other than that the date is wrong, is this the correct state of the moving of Motion for public participation? Was the public participation Motion in the words used by the County Assembly Majority Leader, “rose on Standing Order No. 93 for adjournment to allow for public participation”, correct?

Yes.

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When the date is corrected?

Yes, when the date is corrected.

Okay. You see, we are not in any fight, we are in agreement.

Yes.

Now, the first thing I would like you to agree is, when you agree to proceed on adjournment, you did not agree on how that public participation would be funded. Did you?

Yes.

You did not. You did not also agree on who would collect the views of the public.

It was the County Clerk in the HANSARD and Communication Department.

You did not do that. Is that not so? It is also true that eventually it was the governor who financed the public participation and used the ward administrators. Is that not so?

No. The governor did not ask---

May I ask, did the ward administrators play any role in this public participation?

They did not play any role.

I would like you to go to page 41 of the same County Assembly Report, which is the public participation process. I would like you to look at the last paragraph -Moticho Ward. Are you there?

Yes, I am there.

Does it say that the exercise was headed by the Ward Administrator and Ward Manager?

That is what the Statement reads.

That is what it says. So, indeed, the Governor and the Executive participated in this public participation. Is it not so?

They did not participate.

Are you saying that this report is inaccurate?

When the public participations were being conducted---

Is this the report, correct?

It is not correct.

So, you are now saying the County Assembly’s public participation's report is not correct?

No, I am not denouncing, but particularly on that aspect---

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Is this the only one, which is not correct? Okay, I will move on to another question because of pressure of time. It is true that you played about seven clips of public participation today. Is it not so?

I did not make any clip of any public participation. All these clips were provided by the HANSARD and Communication Department of the Kisii County Assembly.

My question is, in all of them, they are standing behind flowers and trees. Right?

Not all of them.

How many are in are in places other than flowers and trees?

Counsel, when this interview---

Answer my question. Out of the seven clips that you played, is it true that five of them were individuals standing against a tree and a flower?

Not true.

Did you, in any of the clips, see the public behind those people? Was there any that you could see a crowd?

Individual public---

Answer my question.

No.

Was any of the clips with members of public behind it?

They were. Some had and some did not have because some of these individual interviews were being recorded aside, not amongst crowd.

Listen to me. In the clips that you played today, is there any that has members of public in its background?

Yes.

Okay. We will look at them again when we come to our defense. Mr. Dennis says that you lied, that he is a voter in your Ward. Is he a voter in your Ward?

Nowhere on record am I saying that Dennis comes from my Ward.

You said that in the HANSARD, in your submissions, when you were moving a Motion and saying---

I remember well I said that, by the time Dennis was doing a complaint to me, he was staying at Gitare, which is in Nyaribari.

I want to ask you the last question, then my colleague will just ask you a few questions. Is it true you said that you spoke to Ms. Lucy Wahito, and she gave you information?

Yes.

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It is true that, at page 26 to 27 of her Statement, if you could look at the bundle from the DG, at the top of that page, it says- “After receiving applications from interested persons, the Board shortlisted seven candidates for the post of Commercial Manager and invited them for interviews on 15th May.” So, according to Lucy, the interviews were done on 15th May, is it not so?

According to that Statement.

The sale agreement that you said you saw was done on the 20th of April, is it not so?

Yes.

That is over a month earlier, right?

Yes.

Notwithstanding that, it is your position that that money from that sale was for purposes of a bribe?

Yes, it was.

Okay. Did Dennis tell you that there was no time when he had a conversation between himself and Dr. Monda?

Yes.

He told you he had no conversation?

Yes.

Now, did it occur to you to talk to the father of Dennis, or it would not be convenient to the case you had been told to move?

No, I did not reach out to him, because all the material that I needed to prosecute the Motion was provided to me by one Dennis Misati. So, I saw no need at all to reach out.

The instructions I have is that the funeral of your aunt was on the 12th of May, 2023. Do you contest that?

I may not be able to contest that.

Having done the funeral on 12th of May, what business did you have, receiving money from Dr. Monda on the 29th of May, 28th May and 7th of May?

This was a commitment from the Deputy Governor. When I was escorting him to the car, he said that he was to send something in regard to---

Thank you. I had to say that.

There is nowhere I called or did a message soliciting for any money from him. It was for that purpose.

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So, you played a clip to show us how Dr. Monda attended the funeral?

Yes.

Is that story of him intending to send you money afterwards for the children in that clip?

It was not in the public domain, but it was part of the conversation we had as I was escorting to the car.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Please give me two or three minutes with my---

You still have two minutes or so. So, you can conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been unlucky. I have not had enough good time. I will try to limit, but I will beg that you possibly give me five minutes. I will be very specific.

Your time is two minutes.

Hon. Siocha, there are many governance issues in Kisii County. Is that correct? There are many disputes and fights and you have heard Sen. Cherarkey speak of fights in funerals. Are there many governance issues in Kisii? Kuna vita Kisii kwetu. Is that correct? My time is running.

It is not correct.

Is it true that this Motion is before the Senate because there are disputes about governance in Kisii between the deputy governor and the governor?

I am the Mover.

Is it because of the governance issues?

Not at all and nowhere does that find its way in this Motion.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Are you aware that the Deputy Governor has been uncomfortable with the Governor conducting government business in the House? Yes, or no?

I am not aware because I do not work in the executive.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Are you aware that the absorption of the Kisii budget is at two percent, No. 47 of 47 in Kenya?

Unless you want me to expound me on your questions.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Yes, or no? I do not have the time.

As the Chair of Implementation, that is not the position. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Which office does the governor operate from?

He operates from the stadium.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Are you aware that he meets even central government delegations from his house at Motonto, called Shakahola?

That is not unique because all of us receive visitors and delegations in our homes.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Are you aware that the budget that was passed by the Kisii County Government was altered somewhere and this is a complaint?

There is no material fact on that so I cannot confirm. I participated in the process, and I stand at a better position to give information on that. However, let us not divert.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Is it true and the deputy governor’s case is that these small disputes are the ones that have caused this Motion to be here?

Are you trying to inform this Senate that it is those disputes that made the deputy governor Dr. Monda, to go and solicit a bribe from one Dennis Misati?

I do not have time and I do not want to be called for time. Let me ask my last question.

Counsel, your time is up.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to ask one last question on public participation and the bursaries. Are you aware of the County Bursary Fund Committee and the Ward Bursary Fund Committee and whether you are aware that in Kisii, because you are a Member of the County Assembly (MCA), that no one has ever gotten more than Kshs5,000 from the County bursaries? Someone---

Counsel, your time is up. Mr. Witness, answer that question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have grounds especially for students who come from poor and extremely needy backgrounds. They usually get more than the Kshs5,000. There are others equally on full scholarships.

Very well. Mr. Ndegwa.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity for re-examination. I do not want to shoot in the dark as it has been and experienced. Mr. Witness, what has brought us here? Is it the issue of the governor and the wrangles they could be having or not having or the question of the conduct of the deputy governor?

It is the question of the conduct of the deputy governor.

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Is it befitting a governor?

It is not befitting a governor.

Does it befit a public or a state officer?

It does not befit a public officer.

Allow me to take you to page 123---

Mr. Ndegwa, I need to know the time you will take for your re-exam.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am almost done. Five minutes will suffice. We begin at page 122, hon. Senators. You will see where we have one hon. Henry Moracha moving a Motion for adjournment. He subsequently makes submissions and guidance at page 123, the last paragraph which begins by: “I hereby beg to move the Motion of adjournment to allow the people of Kisii County give their views by way of public participation, either by way of memoranda, questionnaires or any other manner suitable to the Clerk.” Are the clips that you have played there contemplated as one of the manners of giving evidence?

Yes.

Who conducts public participation? Is it the County Assembly or the office of the governor?

It is the County Assembly.

Is the office of the governor involved in the oversight works of the County Assembly?

Absolutely not.

Was the governor involved in these processes?

He was not involved.

Will I therefore be right to say that the defence has formulated their own case to which they are answering to and hence the question on the issues of the budget?

Yes.

Are those issues on trial before this Senate?

They are not on trial before the Senate.

Was the defense served with the public participation report?

It was served upon request by the deputy governor.

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Would you therefore request the Members of the Senate to look at page 179 of the bundle of documents, Volume I which bears the Hansard for the 29th?

Yes.

Are you seeing where the Speaker is saying- “So, I have ordered the Clerk that we are going to give him all the evidence of public participation.”

Yes.

Did you witness this service at the County Assembly?

Yes.

Finally, have you looked at the defence that has been brought forth by the deputy governor?

Yes.

Has he answered in his affidavit or refuted the clips that you have played?

He has not.

Has he answered to them?

He has not.

Has he disputed those allegations?

He has not.

Has he brought his clips to countenance to what we have brought forth?

He has not.

It has been put to you that there are no members of the public who participated. Would you like to play Clip No. 1?

I would wish, and I seek the indulgence of the Temporary Speaker that clip No. 1 be played.

Counsel, I gave you five minutes. You have two minutes and that will eat into your time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done, and I am most obliged. Clip No. 1 and I am off. As we proceed, where is the office of the deputy governor situated?

It is situated at Gusii Stadium.

So, they share the Gusii Stadium?

Yes, they share. There is the office of the governor and that of the deputy governor.

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What is the reason?

Currently, the official office of the governor is under renovation.

Clip No. 1

That is enough. The only thing I want you to identify in that clip is where the venue is.

That was at the Kiamokama office of the MCA.

Did you have any role to play in the production of those clips?

I did not have any role to play.

Who produced those clips?

It was the Hansard and the Communication Department for the Kisii County Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I yield the witness to the hon. Senators.

Thank you, hon. Members. In the interest of time, I will limit the number of Members that we will allow for clarification, to four. I will start with Sen. Joe Nyutu. The time you can take is two minutes maximum.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will spend less than the two minutes you have given me. I need clarification from the witness and his side. Who commands the County Enforcement Officers in Kisii County? I ask that because there is an allegation that the deputy governor has been misusing these particular officers. Number two, the Deputy Governor has been accused, and we have viewed several videos, of soliciting for bribes for him to influence the issuance of bursaries in the County. So, would the witness tell this House, what role the Deputy Governor plays in the giving of bursaries in Kisii County? Apart from the video that has been played for the second time, we observed that the other clips that were playing showed people, but did not show other attendees of the public participation function. That is one thing that we would want the witness to clarify. If you would allow me to ask---

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you have asked three questions. Kindly take your seat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly respond to those questions.

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The person who commands the enforcement officers at the Kisii County Government is the Director in charge of enforcement. The second question was on the issue surrounding the County bursary. For purposes of record and to inform this hon. House, we have a special kitty for scholarship where the needy, especially those who come from challenged financial backgrounds, are identified and then forwarded for purposes of being given scholarships. The scholarships are offered by the office of the governor and the deputy governor is involved in the process. The last one was that most of the clips played did not show the backgrounds. Maybe, the Hansard and Communication Department of Kisii County Assembly was mainly focusing on the speakers and forgot to also focus on the background.

Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to get some clarity from the Counsel for the defense. Other than the date on page 137, which is the HANSARD Report, is the contention of the defense, the Counsel for governor, that this document is not a true reflection of what happened in the Assembly on 29th February, 2024. Secondly, on the same document, I can see references at page 211 and 217 to Mr. Katwa Kigen, the same lawyer appearing before us. If he was present in the House, he can clear up. I want to ask him one thing. He has told us here that the evidence of a known gambler: somebody who participates in sports betting, is something to be taken with circumspection.

Sen. Sifuna---

Let me put the question.

Yes.

I am at page 217 of the HANSARD. I want to know if it is true that this is what Mr. Katwa Kigen said. There is a paragraph at the top there, where he says or is reported to have been saying, “Hon. Members, I pray that you do take this view that a question of bribery is a question of choosing who to believe. Do you want to believe a 68 years old retired man who has been friends with Dr. Monda for 32 years and saying this is not a bribe or a young gentleman who is saying it is a bribe?” I want Mr. Katwa Kigen to clarify whether indeed the evidence of a young man should also be taken with the same circumspection that he claims evidence from a gambler should be taken. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen, respond to those questions by Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my point is that the HANSARD has been manipulated. It is not an accurate representation of what happened in terms of--- If the events resulting the adjournment were events of 21st which should be the actual date, why would the report be headed the date of the argument, the defense and the voting when it did not happen on that date? All I am saying is that when you look at that HANSARD, it should enrich our argument that there is a certain strong force within the Assembly, incorporating my good friend, Hon. Siocha, who are very determined to have the deputy governor impeached

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and are prepared to manage the Hansard. This is because the HANSARD is supposed to speak for itself. It is not supposed to be a document that you would come and say that it has typographical errors. We have concerns about the way the HANSARD was reported and that is part of the malice against the Deputy Governor. On the issue of the arguments, I made at page 217; I stand by them and I intend to make the same arguments at the end of these proceedings. I will say that here is Mr. and Mrs Misati. Mr. Misati is 68 years old and his son is 37 years old. This is not a case where anybody is coming to say there was money, a forgery of a document--- This is not documentary evidence, but a question of one word against the other. What I have been trying to tell the Assembly and will be requesting this Senate to do is to see the extent to which this case entirely rests on and whom to believe. We will pray that you choose to believe the father who is 68 years old together with his wife, vis-a-vis what the son is saying. More so, when it is aggravated by the point where the son says he was not present when the discussions were had and cannot say for a fact whether or not the money was discussed as being a bribe or a refund.

Very well, you have answered the question. Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker. I need clarification from the Senior Counsel. He has spoken about manipulation of the Hansard and on separate references, he has put out a case that a procedure that should have been followed in the County Assembly was not followed. The clarification I am seeking is; as Senators, today, are we here to listen to the technicalities that were not followed in the County Assembly or are we to execute the charges? I am asking this because if you go to the rules in our Standing Orders on impeachment, Rule 12---

Sen. Orwoba, ask your question.

My question is in respect that we are according to the institutions. I want the Senior Counsel to clarify if, indeed, the argument is that the process was or was not followed in the County Assembly then what does he expect from the Senate? Does he want us to stop prosecuting the matter based on a technicality that he wants to highlight? We spent a long time on that issue and I wonder whether he is arguing on the process so that we can stop the impeachment. Otherwise, I do not see it relevant.

The question is made. Proceed, Mr. Katwa.

It is our case, for the Deputy Governor, that the procedure set and put in place were intended to safeguard the rights of the subject of impeachment. The law having set it like that and to the extent that the County Assembly has no explanation why they were operating out of time, why they did not serve him on time and why the notice did not have particulars. To the extent that they have no reason, this impeachment should be deemed by this Senate to be invalid and disallowed.

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It is my view that in previous writings, it has been stated that if the impeachment already stands outside time, it is invalid and should be thrown away. I will be praying that you should not look at it as a question of technicality but a question of substantive justice.

Sen. Beth Syengo you want to seek any clarification.

Thank you, Temporary Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarification from the counsel. When he was asking about the clips that were played on the audience, in public meetings, when a speaker is making a speech, is it usual to focus on the audience or the speaker? When I looked at Mama Wamutura speaking, she was speaking from her heart, because this is something that is hurting her. When I see a woman getting emotional---

Sen. Beth, your question is made.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Allow me to raise the second concern. Who runs the Governor's Bursary Fund and what is the role of the deputy governor in it? Thank you.

The first question is directed to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. The second is to the witness.

It is our argument that the clips were manipulated. They were not products of public participation. If it was a product of public participation, you would definitely see people in the background. If it was intended to communicate to this Senate that, indeed, members of the public made contributions to this subject of the impeachment, then surely it should have been possible to see members of the public. Hon. Senators, I said there are about seven clips. About five of them are of a single individual who has nobody in the background. One of the exceptions is the one clip that the honourable Member has invited me to. It has about two people. It has nothing more than that. We still contend that that clip came much after. Lastly, if you look at pages 21 to 54, the public participation report in the County Assembly report, there is nowhere where they said the clips were done. The clip came through the letter on Page 356 of Mr. Ndegwa's letter, where they introduced the clips much after and outside the public participation. It has no relationship with public participation. Thank you, Hon. Senators.

Thank you, Katwa Kigen. Mr. Wycliffe, respond to the second question by Sen. Syengo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a special program domiciled in the office of the governor. The question that the hon. Senator asked; who was responsible? It is the office of the governor.

Thank you very much. Honorable Members, I had directed that I will only allow a maximum of four members to seek

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clarifications. You note that this is a time-bound proceeding that must be prosecuted between now and the close of business tomorrow. So, I will close at that so that we progress to the next witness. Mr. Ndegwa

Thank you for the kind permission to seek your directions. On whether it is proper for the Senior Counsel to impute improper motive, I did introduce the clips well knowing that I am only executing the functions of an advocate representing a client.

Mr. Ndegwa, remember a ruling was made earlier on regarding the objections that both parties had raised with regard to evidence and additional information that could not have been or could have been. That ruling was read in your presence. Allow this House to deal with them at an appropriate time. Thank you. You are discharged. Honourable member, call upon your next witness so that we also guide with regards to time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our next witness is a lady who goes by the name of Lucy Wahito; the diligent Public Officer.

As Lucy is brought to the witness stand, how much time do you intend to spend?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take similar time;30 minutes will suffice.

So we will take 30 minutes for the exam in chief. We will do 20 minutes for cross-examination.

We are most obliged. My learned friend, Mr. Mwangi will take the witness.

For purposes of time and planning as well, how many more witnesses do you plan to call?

We have two more witnesses.

Two more witnesses apart from Lucy?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Very well. You can swear her.

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Good evening, Lucy.

Good evening to you.

Welcome to this session. Lucy, you have sworn an affidavit dated the 8th of March, 2024.

Yes.

I am referring the witness to the affidavit on page 263 of the County Assembly bundle. Page 263, Volume One of the County Assembly bundle. Lucy, where do you work?

Sorry?

Where do you work, Lucy?

I work for Gusii Water Sanitation Company.

What is your designation?

My designation is the Managing Director.

In brief, what is GWASCO, for honourable Members to understand?

GWASCO stands for Gusii Water and Sanitation Company. It is a company that was registered way back in 2006 under the Company's Act. It is jointly owned by Kisii and Nyamira County. Its mandate is to provide water and sanitation services in both counties.

Are you a member of the board?

Yes, I am a member of the Board by virtue of the office I hold.

What are the functions of the board?

The function of the Board of Directors of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company is to provide strategic leadership and oversight. Number two is to recruit the core management team. They are also supposed to ensure they protect the rights of the shareholders and the stakeholders. They are also supposed to approve the annual budgets and policies. Being the supreme organ of the Company, it is the main decision-maker.

Now, in the month of April 2023, the Board advertised for four positions. What were they for recruitment?

Yes, on 14th April 2023, the Board advertised for four positions; Commercial Manager, Internal Auditor, Human Resource Manager, and Procurement Manager.

You have attached to your affidavit a copy of the advertisement by way of inviting applications.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

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