Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, I am informed we now have a quorum. Kindly stop the bell. Clerk, proceed to call out the first Order. Hon. Senators, kindly take your seats so that we proceed with today’s business.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Members of the Senate, good morning? My name is Ndegwa Njiru. We continue to appear together with Mr. Mutuma, Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi, and Ms. Munyoki. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if granted an opportunity by the Senate, we will present the witness.

Sen. Madzayo, you may walk in and take your seat.

Hon. Senators, that being the case, I wish to guide the Senate as follows– (a) The examination of the witness to take a maximum of 20 minutes. (b) The cross-examination to take a maximum of 15 minutes. (c) Re-examination to take a maximum of 10 minutes. Upon the discharge of the witness, the hearing programme will proceed as indicated in the Order Paper, namely, the evidence by the Deputy Governor. The Senate is, therefore, accordingly guided. Let us proceed, you may now call the witness to take the stand. Clerk, proceed to call the next Order.

Could you swear in the witness?

David, good morning?

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Good morning, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

For the record, kindly state your name, where you work and your designation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My name is Mr. David Oyagi. I am the Acting Director of Enforcement, Kisii County Government.

What are your roles as a Director of Enforcement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Acting Director of Enforcement, I supervise enforcement operations throughout the county. I am the overall commander of that unit of enforcement. I also ensure there is safety and protection of county properties and critical installations, among other duties.

You are aware that you are here pursuant to the summons of the Senate?

Yes, I am aware.

You are aware that you are also here to respond to issues that were raised with regard to the abuse of office in the impeachment of the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I am aware.

Have you had an opportunity to look at the issues that have been raised?

To some extent I have done.

Now, Mr. David, there were issues that were raised regarding the deployment of county enforcement officers on two issues. One, on the issue of the arrest of one Reuben Monda, the brother to the Deputy Governor, and also the issue of four enforcement officers who have been working or doing odd jobs at this home. Now, if we begin with the first issue, the issue of the 20 enforcement officers who have been deployed, can you address the Senate on that issue kindly?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I state before this Senate that the issue of mobilization and deployment of the 20 enforcement officers came to my knowledge on 29th February, 2024, when the Motion on the Impeachment of H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County was being led by at the County Assembly.

Did you take any step following your knowledge?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, after learning about that occurrence and being the officer in charge of that directorate and that my officers, or my office, has been implicated in the proceedings at the Assembly, I thought it was good to do a statement to the Assembly to clarify and shed more light on that occurrence.

Following your statement to the County Assembly, did you also take any step or do any preliminary investigations?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I initiated an investigation immediately. I did a letter to my Deputy Director who is in charge of sub counties,

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instructing him to provide information to my office on what exactly transpired that day, and why he did not communicate to my office earlier enough as pertaining that incident.

Did you find out how and who deployed the said officers?

Following the report of my Deputy Director who went to the ground because I instructed him to go to the ground, he came and he wrote a report to me. He stated that the officers were mobilized and commandeered by the Sub-County Administrator of Nyaribari Chache and the Sub-County Enforcement Officer.

Was that commandeering of your officers within the knowledge of your office or the office of your deputy?

No.

Was it legal or lawful?

Procedure requires that the Office of the Director of Enforcement be informed of any occurrence. So, there was no communication made to me. Therefore, that was unlawful deployment.

Did you find the motivation for the Sub-County Commander to commandeer the deployment?

Yes, from the report of my Deputy in charge of sub- counties, the person who gave instructions to the Sub-County Administrator and the Sub- County Commander is H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County.

Is it your evidence or statement that the Deputy Governor directly commanded to deploy the said officers?

It is.

Mr. David, there was a clip that was played yesterday. The clip in regard the arrest of Reuben Monda, if we could have it up kindly. As we wait for that clip Mr. David, does the Deputy Governor have the right to command, of course, he is the Deputy Governor of Kisii County. Do you think or does he have the right to command the enforcement officers?

In civil service, there are procedures and protocols to be followed in any operation. H.E the Deputy Governor has no mandate to direct, command or give instructions directly to the enforcement officers.

He has to follow the procedures?

He has to follow the procedures.

Now, do you have those correspondences of the communication that you sought clarification from your deputy and his response with you?

Yes, I have.

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Would you mind supplying them to the Senate for them to look at them?

I can, but I do not have enough copies.

All right, the arrangements will be made. Now, kindly play the clip. That clip Bw. David, it was introduced yesterday by one Reuben Monda.

Kindly, pause there. We want to see the police vehicle. There, thank you. In that vehicle, are you able to identify the person who is seated at the rear left side?

Yes, of course.

How are you able to identify him?

The person on the rear left side of the vehicle is wearing county enforcement uniform for the County Government of Kisii and that is my officer by the name Alfred Monda. This is the Deputy Sub-County Commander of Nyaribari Chache Sub-County.

Now, this is during the arrest of Deputy Governor’s brother. Do those officers or rather, did Keumbu have the capacity to have 20 officers around for purposes of being deployed to such an occasion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my records and my strength at Keumbu is 22 enforcement officers.

How many?

Twenty-two enforcement officers.

So, there were officers to be commandeered?

Yes.

Did you confirm that is one of your officers?

That is my enforcement officer. I confirm.

Now, we move on to the next issue Bw. David. The issue of the four officers who are mentioned to have been working and doing odd jobs at his residence, what do you have to say, Bwana David?

The issue of the four enforcement officers working at the home of H.E the Deputy Governor; I am aware of it and it came to my attention much earlier even before the motion before the County Assembly. I state that there is no official document towards sanctioning that deployment in my office.

Is the Deputy Governor entitled to any county officers to work under him?

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There is no provision.

There is no provision for entitlement, but is he also entitled to his own personal staff who are paid by the county?

Yes.

Are those personal staff part of county enforcement officers?

No.

There are two separate people. There are those who were employed by the county as personal staff who work under him.

Yes, hon. Speaker.

Are those the people we are talking to before this?

We are talking about the four enforcement officers.

Who are separate to the personal staff?

Who are separate to the personal staff.

Is it legal for him also to deploy? If so, is there a scope of work that they should be engaged in?

Enforcement officers have clear job descriptions and their role is entirely the provision of security.

Bwana David, before I cede my few minutes to my colleague, Mr. Mutuma, I want to make reference to the County Government document. Hon. Members, I am referring to the bundle for County Government, Volume 1 at page 313. That is a statement that you did to the County Assembly, Bw. David Haggai. Correct?

Yes.

You stated that it came to your knowledge during the impeachment.

Yes, I confirm.

I just want you to clear the air, why it came to your knowledge during the impeachment.

As usual, any other operations concerning enforcement officers, the officers need to report to my office. We have a WhatApp wall, where all other occurrences are recorded. However, pertaining to this incident of 23rd December, I want to state that there was no information to my office, and that is not usual.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also request that we play the video where the witness who left yesterday

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evening, Mr. Rueben Monda, was addressing the media, kindly. Just the very few first seconds of that video. This video is in the Ekegusii language.

Kindly pause there. I know we and also Members of the Senate do not understand that language. However, I believe you understand that language.

I do.

What is your understanding of the statement that has been made by the reporter?

The reporter is talking about trees.

What else?

The conflict between him and his brother.

Does he mention the issue of county officers?

Can we replay it?

Kindly replay the clip.

Kindly, pause. What is your understanding of that video, Bwana Director?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can see the first person and there is a reporter. The person on television is not talking about enforcement officers or county staff. The person who is talking about enforcement officers is the narrator of the story. However, the complainant is complaining about his arrest using police and enforcement officers.

Thank you, Bw. David. This clip was interpreted yesterday. I invite the House to also have a look at it independently. I cede my few minutes to Mr. Mutuma to guide you through.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Just hold on counsel. What is your intervention, Sen. Kathuri?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, because I am participating in this quasi-judicial court as a judge, yesterday, we were privileged to get a very good interpreter who was neutral. He interpreted the language nicely. I am not aware why he is not available today. I want to trust an independent and professional interpreter who can give us the right message so that as we make our determination, we can understand what was spoken in Ekegusii language.

Very well.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may, our worry was that---

Just pause there, counsel. We would wish to be guided by an independent interpreter on the content of that video, not to the understanding of your witness.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our worry was that the interpreter, the very specific one who came yesterday, misrepresented the version. If we can have a different one, that would be most obliged, because we seem to be having two different versions of the same story.

I am informed we had two interpreters yesterday. Can we have the second one to interpret this video for the hon. Senators, please? Then, your witness can put it in context. Counsel, let me just get you correctly. Are you saying that the interpreter who interpreted this video yesterday, did not interpret it correctly?

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

According to who?

According to the people well-versed with the Ekegusii language, that was the indication. Perhaps we can hear from another source if they will stick to the very version of the other interpreter.

Counsel, allow the video to play and then let us get the interpretation. Yes, Counsel for Deputy Governor.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We have an objection to that. Our objection is in the sense that we will be going in circles. You will recall that the interpreter did an interpretation initially. Objections were raised by Members of this Senate saying that that interpretation was not correct. The interpreter was then given a second chance to interpret and the whole process went to the end. The hon. Members who had raised an objection and who understood Kisii did not raise an objection neither did the counsels for the County Assembly. Now, to ask for the third time for an interpretation will not be designed to get the proper interpretation, but designed to get the interpretation that the county Assembly counsel want. It is not intended to know the exact position, but rather their position. For that reason, we contend on our part that the interpretation has been adequately supplied. There is no point in wasting and spending time in hunting out for the type of interpretation that the county counsel want.

Very well. Counsel for the County Assembly, there was an interpreter who did interpretation yesterday. Is that correct?

Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Therefore, as the team from the County Assembly, you were adequately covered in terms of the interpretation that was done yesterday?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, none of the counsel is versed with the Gusii language. At the moment, it was not brought to our attention that the interpretation was not correct. Thereafter, that information came to our knowledge. It is only fair that we give another interpreter an opportunity to do that. I do not see any prejudice that will be suffered by the team representing the Deputy Governor.

Counsel for the County Assembly?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

We cannot have several versions of the interpretation. An interpreter is an interpreter. If this video was given its true interpretation yesterday, the matter rests.

Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. However, I would urge you once you retreat to consider this matter in camera, you can have your own consideration based on Senators who are well versed with the language. I stand guided.

Good, then just proceed with your witness. We do not have to hear another version of Gusii language. Gusii language is one. Sen. Onyonka, Gusii language is one, or do we have several versions of Gusii language?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Gusii language is one. The interpretation that was given made me understand. I did not see any contradiction and I was not misguided.

Proceed with your witness.

Mr. Haggai, do you have any personal interest--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not sure whether I can be heard.

Clerk, kindly power the counsel’s microphone.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Haggai--- I still feel it is quite low. Mr. Witness, do you have any personal or ulterior interest in these proceedings?

No.

Have you been coerced, influenced or persuaded to take a certain stand towards the deployment of the officers that you are alleging were deployed on 20th December?

Not at all.

When did you receive the summons from Senate?

I received the summons yesterday.

What mode?

They were served to me.

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How were you served?

By the server of the Court, he called me.

When did you travel from Kisii to Nairobi?

I travelled tonight.

Thank you. You have told the Senators that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024. The event itself---

Sorry, Counsel. There is an initial question that you have not understood clearly. Can you repeat the question about the travelling? Do you mean travelling from where I stay or from Kisii?

From wherever you were to Senate.

I travelled today morning from where I reside.

You have indicated that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers to the Deputy Governor’s home to arrest his brother came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024, correct?

Yes.

The event itself took place on 20th December, 2023. That is two months apart.

Correct.

Now, as the Head of this Department, how is it that 20 officers would be deployed, taken from your Department to a private assignment without your knowledge? Does that not mean that you are inept, you are not in charge of this Department?

Not at all. You see, this is an occurrence which is happening at the home of the Deputy Governor. I learnt about it at the County Assembly when the Motion was being tabled. That is the first time I heard about it. As I said earlier, this is unusual because all operations of enforcement need to be reported to my office. That is why I tasked my deputy to investigate this incident and report to me. In the report that the deputy gave me, he said, the reason the sub-county administrator and commander did not report is not very clear and they have initiated disciplinary procedures against those officers.

So, is it an issue of lack of diligence or competence from your part or there was deliberate effort to conceal that occurrence?

I believe there could be deliberate effort to block us from getting the information.

Thank you. You have also indicated that you have conducted preliminary investigations and there is a preliminary report to that effect.

Yes.

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Are you able to tell the hon. House the names of the four officers that you are claiming are assigned at the Deputy Governor’s office doing odd jobs? What are their names?

I can confirm that the four officers are there and they work on a regular basis. After two weeks, they are replaced and they are deployed from-- -

Are you able to tell us the names of those officers?

Yes.

Kindly go ahead.

All of them?

The four officers.

I have said, the sub-county has 22 enforcement officers. The duty roster is usually done after a period of one or two weeks. So, they keep on rotating.

Are you able to tell the names or not?

For now I cannot because investigation is underway.

Are you able to identify the 20 officers apart from the commander?

Yes.

Are you able to supply the names?

Yes.

Are you able to supply the names now?

Not now because they are not typed.

Do you have their names?

I have the names.

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is all for this witness.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, your witness.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, a preliminary issue; we have not been served with this report that is being referred to by this witness. If we can get a copy.

Counsel for the County Assembly, can you make available the copy of the report you are referring to?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your guidance, we do have the reports. We are also seeing them for the very first time. However, we are obliged to serve our colleagues and later make arrangements to supply it to the House.

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Clerk, can you make that report available to the hon. Senators? Proceed, Counsel.

Mr. Oyagi, you have stated that you are the Head of Compliance.

I am the Head of Enforcement and Compliance.

In an acting capacity or permanently employed?

I am serving in an acting capacity.

Under whose pleasure do you serve?

I serve the County Government of Kisii, not an individual.

Who leads it?

The County Government of Kisii is led by His Excellency the Governor.

So you serve at the Governor's pleasure.

I serve the County Government of Kisii.

I will refer you to the two reports. Are they three or two reports?

They should be three.

Okay. In a chronological manner, let us start with one from 1st March. You can refer to that one. Mr. Speaker, Sir, and Members of the House, I know you do not have the benefit of having the copies, but the questions I ask do not go into the specifics. Can I proceed?

Proceed.

Do you have the letter of the 1st March, 2024?

I only had that copy, but you can proceed.

In that copy, do you indicate the officers who were mobilized and deployed to the Governor's house?

At that time, it was an allegation.

No. Do you indicate who these officers are? Are their names indicated?

I did not indicate the names, but I gave---

This is a simple question. Did you indicate their names?

No.

Okay. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Counsel, you are not addressing individual Senators. Kindly cross-examine the witness.

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Most obliged. Let us go to the letter of 4th March. Does it indicate the 20 officers who were mobilized and deployed to the Deputy Governor's house?

It does not indicate, but it indicates that the officers are those who were attached to the Nyaribari Chache Sub-County.

Does that letter indicate that?

It does not indicate the names of the officers.

Does it indicate their current mobilisation or location?

I believe it does.

Please refer to the same and show us where it does that.

The author of this letter says- "Indeed, on 20th December, 2023, our enforcement officers, about 20, were mobilized and deployed to His Excellency the Deputy Governor's home, led by the Sub- County Administrator." The Sub-County Administrator is for Nyaribari Chache Sub-County.

Yes, but does it say that 20 officers were actually from his unit? Does it say that?

The officer who was doing this letter---

It is a simple question. Does it say that, yes or no?

He is in charge of sub counties.

Does it say these officers are from his sub-county? That is the question. Nothing more.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, the author of this letter is not---

Witness, these are very simple questions that attract either yes or no. Let us proceed so that we do not waste time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am well guided.

Let us go to the last report. This is the one you have made. So, from that letter, is that a yes or no? Does it indicate where they are deployed?

No, it does not.

Okay. Let us go to the report of 8th March. Does it indicate the officers?

It does not indicate the names of the officers.

Does it indicate the name of the officers who are deployed on the 20th December?

It does not.

Does it indicate the names of the officers who have been deployed at the Deputy Governor's house, as you allege?

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It does not.

Okay. So, there is no way for this Assembly to know that officers were deployed on the 20th December or are currently deployed at the Deputy Governor's house?

The House is able to know because---

Is there a way to identify them from your reports?

I can supply the names.

No, as we stand here, is there a way to identify them?

No.

Okay. Let us move to the issue of the four officers who were deployed at the Deputy Governor’s house. Your testimony was that you learnt of this before the impeachment proceedings.

Yes.

Were these officers sent or deployed there by yourself?

I said they were not officially deployed because there is no official document in our records.

So, are these officers deployed to another place? Are they assigned another duty in the county?

What I meant is that the officers are taken to do a distinct---

In your department, are there officers who are not assigned to specific duties?

All officers are assigned specific duties and with letters?

So, these four officers have been assigned duties elsewhere and they are not doing those duties but have moved to the Deputy Governor’s. Is that is your evidence?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that the deployment must be documented.

However, you are saying they are not deployed to the Deputy Governor’s.

They are deployed with no documentation.

What do you mean that they are deployed without documentation?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when deployment is done, there has to be an official deployment letter.

Okay. As their supervisor, have you taken any disciplinary action against these people who have been deployed with no letters?

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I have complained in writing to my supervisor.

Is that letter of complaint before this tribunal?

No. Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not.

In reference to the allegations of the deployment of 20 officers on the 20th December, you have said that you only learnt about it on the 29th February.

Exactly.

Before that, were you aware of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor?

I learnt about the Motion after following the proceedings of the Assembly.

Before that, you did not know that there was a Motion going on at Assembly?

I did not know.

Did you hear about any public participation with regard to the charges that were facing the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not work at the Assembly.

No. I am asking, did you hear about it as a person living and working in Kisii County?

I heard there was a public participation, but I did not bother to ask what it was about.

Even when it allegedly involved 20 of your officers?

I learnt about 20 of the officers at the Assembly.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Oyagi. I will cede my remaining time to Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Good morning, Mr. Oyagi.

Good morning.

It is your testimony to this Senate that where you stand, both the officers who went, the 20 and the ones who were deployed, were not properly designated to do those respective things from your record.

They did.

Okay. For purposes of making that contention to this Senate, you referred to a certain record, is that not so?

Yes.

What was that record?

The report that I got from my Deputy.

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Okay. Now, when you say they were not deployed, is it a document or just word of mouth from the Sub County Ward Administrator?

You know the procedure of deployment---

Just answer. Do you have a record of your deployments? Let me ask it like that.

The record is not there.

You do not have any record showing deployments?

Nothing like that because they were not properly deployed.

Do you have a record of all your enforcement officers?

Yes, I have.

Have you annexed it to any of your documents?

Right now, no.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you do not have the record of the totality of your officers. Are those officers designated to do certain duties?

Enforcement officers are supposed to do enforcement duties.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer my question. Is the total population of the enforcement officers in your portfolio assigned duties?

They are assigned duties.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Is there a record showing that this one is supposed to be at the hospital, the stadium or the county offices?

Yes, there is.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is true that you have not brought that to the Senate?

The summons---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please answer my question. For purposes of saying 20 people went to the Governor’s brother’s house and that there are people working at the Deputy Governor’s house that were not meant to be there. Have you brought the deployment records showing where those people were supposed to have been deployed?

No. Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You said that one of the criteria that you used to come and testify to this Senate is that there were no letters of deployment. Is that so?

They were not officially deployed.

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Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did you use the word “letters of deployment” a few minutes ago?

Yes. About the officers.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, the 20 plus the four, have you brought us the deployment letters so that this Senate can know clearly that this person who went to the Deputy Governor’s house or the one working at the Deputy Governor’s house had a letter of deployment to a different place, but is erroneously in a different place? Have you given us their letters of deployment?

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Do you have a Human Resource (HR) Manual at the County Assembly?

Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You have not given us that manual, have you?

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Who are the enforcement officers answerable to?

Enforcement officers are answerable to me as the head of enforcement.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is what the HR manual says that they are answerable to you?

Yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): In the body of that manual, is there anywhere, which designates the Deputy Governor as one of the people to whom they are answerable to?

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Lastly, you say that you have come here to tell us what the sub-county ward administrator told you. Is that it?

He is my deputy in charge of sub-counties.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is not the question I have asked you. I have asked you, as you stand here, your testimony to this Senate is what the sub-county ward administrator told you.

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is based on?

On my deputy who is in charge of sub-counties.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): How did he get that information again?

He did investigations.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Then he communicated to the sub-county ward administrator?

He communicated to the sub-county administrator and not the Ward Administrator.

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Mr. Katwa Kigen): If we really wanted to know for a fact that indeed 20 people went to the Deputy Governor’s house and that there are people not deployed there, the best person would have been that sub-county ward administrator. That is the person who has the raw information because he was in that vicinity. Is that it?

Yes, but he failed to report.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is not what I have asked you. I am saying that is the person who would have told this Senate directly that I know for a fact, that there are four people working there who are not designated to work there and there are 20 people who went to the Deputy Governor’s house. That is the person who would say that, from personal knowledge.

The enforcement officers---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please understand my question. My question is, the person who has personal knowledge of whether or not there are four people working at the Deputy Governor’s house and whether or not, 20 people went to effect arrest is the sub-county ward administrator. That is the person right on the ground?

There is a sub-county commander who reports to me.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, who is the most immediate person to the vicinity of the house of the Deputy Governor and who would know which people went to his house?

The sub-county enforcement commander.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is the person who would have told this Senate directly what happened. Is that it?

The sub-county commander reports to me.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): On the question of the witness, that would have been the best witness for the Senate to know whether what you are saying is true or not. You are telling us what you were told and it is not what you know.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am in charge of the Directorate of Enforcement.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): What you are telling this Senate is what the sub-county enforcement commander told you?

Yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I know my colleague, Mr. Mutuma asked you whether you came here under coercion or whether you were threatened and so forth. Why was it necessary to be careful about that and they take precaution that you do not been seen as a weaponized witness?

I am in charge of---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I am just asking why are you defensive when nobody has made any accusation against you? Why is there that defensive sense that you might have been a weaponized witness?

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I learned that my Directorate of Enforcement is implicated in this case.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Is it not true that the sub-county enforcement commander knows for a fact that the four people working at the Deputy Governor’s place are designated to do that job and was not ready to come and lie and that you are the only who was available to give the distorted truth of the fact?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I came here as the in-charge of Enforcement and Compliance.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Why did the person who knows not come?

I take responsibility as the in-charge.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I put it to you that it is because you are more malleable and that you have been acting for forever and you are hoping that by giving this testimony, you will graduate into a confirmed position.

That is not true.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): As we speak today- -- Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I have three minutes, then I will be done.

Very well counsel, conclude in the next three minutes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As we speak today, do you know where all the population of your enforcement officers are?

Yes, I know.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Since when?

This morning.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, before that, when you are acting and were deputy, you did not know where your people were, including the 20 that went to arrest and the four that were at the Deputy Governor’s?

You asked as I am standing here.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Before that, did you know?

I know.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did you know?

I know.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I am not asking about today. We are talking about your testimony saying that there are four people in the Deputy Governor’s place you did not know about.

I know about the four and I said here that I complained to my boss.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): When, after the Impeachment Motion?

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Before the Impeachment Motion.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Have you given us any document showing that you had raised any issues before that?

No, but I can provide evidence.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Lastly, did you say that the Deputy Governor is not entitled to be designated any staff to assist him? Is that your position?

I talked about the enforcement officers. There are no provisions.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I will ask you again. Is the Deputy Governor entitled to some staff at the expense of the county?

I know that they are entitled but not enforcement officers.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. As you testify today, do you have anything to tell this Senate that indeed the people who were designated to serve the Deputy Governor, are this and this, and instead of those ones, these ones went? Do you have anything to show that there is a variance between the people intended vis-a-vis the people who are actually there?

I could not be having the evidence---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer my questions directly. Do you have any document to say that Haggai was supposed to be there but instead of Haggai, it is someone else?

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You do not have anything, but you agree that he is entitled to support staff?

Yes. He is.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the indulgence. Thank you too, Mr. Haggai.

Counsel for the County Assembly, any re- examination?

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief. David, you have been asked whether, you have identified the personal staff of the Deputy Governor and your enforcement officers. The question is, are personal staff of the Deputy Governor under your direct control?

No.

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Are you here speaking about his personal staff or your own staff?

I came to talk about enforcement officers.

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): You have also been asked whether you have brought the documents complaining about the four officers about the report that you forwarded to your boss. Correct?

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Yes.

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Do you have your complaint letter about the four officers?

The complaint about the four officers was done immediately I resumed office.

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Was it done before the impeachment?

It was done before the impeachment.

Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): You have also been asked whether it is you who ought to have come here or it was your Deputy Director at the sub-county level. The question is, who complained at the County Assembly level?

I raised the complaint.

Are you the author of the statement at the County Assembly level?

I am.

Is it pursuant to that statement that you were summoned?

That is true.

You have also been asked about whether you have brought documents or records on deployment of 20 enforcement officers and employment letters for your officers. When did you receive the summons?

I received the summons yesterday.

When you did, to your understanding, what were you coming to speak to?

I was coming to talk about deployment of enforcement officers.

If you had enough time, would you supply those documents?

Yes.

You have also been asked whether you have done investigations correctly. Is that correct?

Yes.

The question is; what did the preliminary investigation report reveal to you to the extent that you are not able to mention the names of four officers among the 20 enforcement officers?

The preliminary report indicates that it is true that 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and deployed to execute an operation. About the four---

Are the investigations complete?

The investigations are ongoing.

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Are you able to reveal the names of the said enforcement officers at this juncture?

I am able to reveal the names of all enforcement officers attached to Nyaribari Chache Sub County.

My question is; while investigations are ongoing, would you compromise the investigations by revealing the names of the officers at this point?

No.

I believe you are a permanent and pensionable employee of the county government. Correct?

Yes.

So, who is your employer?

Kisii County Government.

Were you recruited by the County Public Service Board (CPSB)?

Yes.

So, do you serve under the mercy of the Governor?

No, I serve the County Government of Kisii.

You have also been asked about the person who deployed the 20 enforcement officers. Who did you correctly put as?

The sub-county administrator and sub-county commander.

Does the sub- county administrator have the mandate to deploy?

No.

Is that the reason even your own deputy did not have the knowledge of it?

Yes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is all. I cede the witness to Members.

Thank you. The witness may retire. Now, we are going to hear the case of the Deputy--- Sen. Crystal Asige, what is your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just have a point of clarification and hope that you can guide. It is with regard to the summons letter that was sent after your directive yesterday, through the Clerk’s Office, for the witness to appear before us. I would like to know whether the summons indicated or outlined the documentation and material evidence that this witness was required to appear with here this morning and if he was to bring 67 copies for each Senator, so that we understand what was required of him to bring when appearing before us.

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Could I get a copy of the summons so that we are clear on the contents? Senator for Nandi, what is your clarification?

Just a quick one to the witness. Acting Deputy Director, I have three questions only. First, when were these four officers deployed at the Deputy Governor’s office? You said 20 were sent to assist in the arrest, but in your letter, you have said that they were illegally sent there. When was that? Do you have those facts? Secondly, you have said in your report--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to be quick. The Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance has said that some enforcement officers doing manual work at the Deputy Governor’s home is a matter under investigation. Are you aware of what the four officers were doing? Finally, as the Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance, have you ever visited the Deputy Governor’s home to check what your officers are doing there? How long have you been acting in that position?

Witness, proceed to respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said about four enforcement officers. I learned immediately I resumed office on 11th August, 2023. I have hitherto complained in writing. Regarding the 20 enforcement officers, it came to my knowledge when the Motion was being discussed at the County Assembly. The issue of enforcement officers doing manual job as reported by my Deputy Director in charge of sub-counties is a matter under investigation. Once investigations are complete, I shall report to the Chief Officer (CO) in charge of my department. Regarding visiting the home of the Deputy Governor, I visited once immediately I assumed office. That is the time I realised that four enforcement officers were deployed there without any documentation. I have complained about it. Concerning how long I have acted, this is the seventh month since 11th August, 2023.

Sen. Chute, do you have any question or clarification?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I have two questions to the witness. How long have you been acting as Director? Secondly, who is supposed to take responsibility for the four officers who were deployed to the Deputy Governor’s house? Is it the Deputy Governor or your office?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was appointed as Acting Director of Enforcement and Compliance on 11th August, 2023. That means I have been acting for the past seven months. I take the responsibility for the four enforcement officers who are working at the Deputy Governor’s home without official deployment. I have said before this Senate that immediately after I learnt about this development, I wrote a complaint letter to the CO in charge asking him to take it up.

Sen. Wambua, what is your clarification?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is to the witness. When exactly did you get to know about the mobilization and deployment of officers to the home of the Deputy Governor? Secondly, according to your own records, the incident happened on 20th December, 2023, yet the first letter that you wrote on this matter was on 1st March. Why did it take too long for you to demand and explanation? Lastly, at the time of your demand letter to your deputy, had the impeachment proceedings against the Deputy Governor started? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I learned about the deployment of the 20 officers at the Assembly when the Motion of impeachment was being discussed. Upon learning that, as an officer who is in charge of that directorate, I felt that my department was implicated and I thought that it was prudent to take a statement and shed more light on that incident. That is on the 29th February, 2024. The following day was the first of March. That is when I wrote a letter to my Deputy Director in charge of Sub Counties instructing him to start investigations and report to my office what transpired on that date of 29th December, 2023 explaining to me why this information did not reach our office. On the 4th of March, my Deputy wrote to me after undertaking preliminary investigations and confirmed to me that, indeed, the 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and they assisted in the arrest of our Deputy Governor’s brother at his home in Keumbu. Why it took so long is the question that all of us need to understand. This incident is happening at the home of the Deputy Governor. My sub-county commander and the sub-county administrator are involved in this arrangement. The reason why they did not report to me, as usual, is an issue that requires further investigations and disciplinary action taken against them. I have recommended in my letter if you can see; the letter dated 8th March, 2024 to the Chief Officer (CO). In the last part paragraph, “The sub- county administrator and sub-county commander failed to report to our office as required of them.” Reason? Well known to them. I have forwarded to the CO for further action.

Sen. Mandago?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask the witness, one, who is in charge of civil servants at the sub-county level? Two, what position did you serve before being appointed Acting Director for Enforcement?

At the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of enforcement officers is the sub-county enforcement commander who reports also to the sub-county administrator. The sub-county commander reports to my office directly on matters of enforcement. On the position I held before I became the Acting Director of Enforcement, I have been the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of Kisii Municipality.

Now, with regard to the issues raised by Sen. Crystal Asige, I will read the summons so that you may appreciate the contents of the summons -

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“To Mr. David Haggai Oyagi,

WHEREAS pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and Section 33 of the County Governments Act, 2012, on Thursday 29th of February 2024, the Kisii County Assembly approved a Motion for removal from office by impeachment of Deputy Governor (Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda of Kisii County;

WHEREAS by a letter dated Wednesday of 1st March 2023 and received in the Office of the Senate on 2nd March 2024, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate documents in evidence of the proceedings of the Assembly; and

WHEREAS pursuant to Section 33(5) of the County Government Act Cap 265 and Standing Order No.80(1) (b) (2) of the Senate Standing Orders, the Senate at a sitting held on Thursday the 7th of March 2024 resolved to investigate the matter in plenary within ten days;

WHEREAS following the resolution of the Senate at a sitting held on Thursday the 7th of March 2024, the Clerk of the Senate issued invitation to appear to the County Assembly and to the Deputy Governor of Kisii County inviting them to appear and be represented before the Senate during its investigations and to file with the Office of the Clerk of the Senate various documents relating to the matter; and

FURTHER by a letter referenced CAK/3/1/C/CS/002 2024 dated the Friday 8th of March 2024, Hon. (Dr.) Philip Nanyumba the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii in response to the invitation to appear and pursuant to Rule 10 of the Third Schedule to the Senate Standing Orders requested the Senate to summon you to appear before the Senate; and;

FURTHER, whereas by the Speaker’s ruling made during the hearing of the Senate on Wednesday the 13th of March 2024, the Senate acceded to the request by Hon. (Dr.) Philip M. Nanyumba, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii on behalf of the County Assembly of Kisii;

WHEREAS Article 125 of the Constitution, Section 18 and 20 of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act Cap 6 and Rule 10 of the Third Schedule to the Senate Standing Orders empowers the Senate or its Committees to summon any person to appear before it for purposes of giving evidence or providing information;

NOW THEREFORE, the Senate hereby summons you to appear before the Senate in person on Thursday 14th of March 2024 at p.m. at the Senate Chamber main Parliament buildings in Nairobi to do the following (a) Produce your appointment letter; (b) Confirm if the persons who are said to be working in the Deputy Governor’s home are officials in the county. Take note that should you fail to attend before the Senate on the time and date specified in this summons or to produce the documentation required by the Senate, the Senate may impose upon you a fine not exceeding Kshs.500,000 or may order for your arrest pursuant to Sections 19(1) and 19(3) respectively of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act Cap 6 and;

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You shall also be guilty of an offence as stipulated under Section 27(1) (a)(I) and 27(1)(c)(ii) respectively of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act Cap 6 for which you shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding Kshs.200,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment. Given under my hand for and on behalf of the Senate this 13th Day of March 2024. Signed by the JM Nyegenye (CBS) Clerk of the Senate.” Sen. Crystal Asige, I hope then that clarifies your issue. Proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving us that clarification. Yes, you mentioned the two items that he was required for and with. One is his appointment letter as I have heard correctly and to confirm about the officers that have been spoken about here. Thank you, very much.

Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the witness was answering the question he was asked by Sen. Wambua, he contradicted himself because when the lawyer was asking him questions, he said that he is aware of where his officers are all the time and every day. However, on this particular one he said that he was not aware until when at the County Assembly. Can he clarify that?

Proceed witness?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true, I am aware, all the time, of where my enforcement officers are. However, in this particular case, is unusual, whereby enforcement officers are mobilized, deployed and go to effect an arrest, without any report to my office. That is why, when I learned of this, I took the action of instructing my deputy to explain this lapse of not reporting to my office. The report that my deputy gave was that the sub-county administrator and the sub-county commander who were in charge of this operation failed to report. Reason? Well known to them, and I have advised that action be taken against them.

Sen. Kathuri, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine are just two simple questions. I want the witness to go on record. Mr. Witness, under whose command are the enforcement officers in the Kisii County Government? Second, does the Deputy Governor have any mandate on the deployment of these enforcement officers?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the county enforcement officers of the County Government of Kisii are under the command of the Director of Enforcement. Whether the Deputy Governor has the right to command enforcement officers, it is no.

Sen. Kathuri: What is the Specific name of the Director? Proceed Mr. Witness.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Director of Enforcement is the witness standing before the Senate. I am acting in that capacity, and my name is David Hagai Oyagi.

Senator Wamatinga.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. Could the witness kindly tell us what he was doing before he became the Acting Director of Enforcement? Secondly, is there a routine duty roster? Thirdly, when there is a crisis, how do they allocate the duties, and who sits in that meeting?

proceed, Mr. witness.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I resumed the Office of the Director of Enforcement as the Acting Director, I was the Deputy Director, but in charge of the Municipality. About the deployment and how we react, normally, in these operations, if there is an incident happening at the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of those officers is the sub-county enforcement commander, who reports to the Director's Office directly through the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of sub-counties. Once the office is aware, we take charge of that activity and monitor closely so that we can report accordingly.

Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you direct or sanction this activity, whereby there was an arrest conducted by 20 officers?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this incident happened on 29th December 2023. I did not sanction. I was not aware of it. As I have said in this House, I learned it at the County Assembly. It came to my knowledge that one of the reasons the Hon. Deputy Governor was being engaged in deployment of enforcement officers to arrest his brother.

Sen. Boni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My clarification arises from the assertion by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor that the witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County. Section 35 of the County Governments Act gives the Governor the responsibility to form and appoint, with the approval of the County Assembly, the County Executive Committee. The same Act in Section 59, gives the power of appointment of the rest of the staff to the County Public Service Board, which appointed the witness. In view of this provision, is the counsel of the defendant going to be magnanimous enough to come and rescind that statement so that it is not in the record that this witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County and that he is appearing this morning purely to canvass to be confirmed in his acting capacity?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, please proceed

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question and the fact that the witness acts in an acting capacity was the reason for the

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contention that he acted not at the direction, but at the pleasure of the Governor, who will ultimately, following directions from the County Public Service Board, be responsible ultimately to his final substantive appointment.

Very well. We will allow the witness to retire and now proceed with the defence of the Deputy Governor. Counsel for Deputy Governor, it is now your time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our first witness is Mr. Joseph Misati. Do I proceed or hold on?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, you have four hours to put your defense. Depending on how many witnesses you intend to call, you need them to work within those four hours. We are going to adjourn at exactly 1.00 p.m. to reconvene at 2:30 p.m. So, kindly keep in mind that time. Please, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before my time starts running---

It is already running.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could I request two accommodations? You recall yesterday when we dealt with the first witness, we had a situation where the time tended to go out of hand because there was no limitation, both in terms of evidence-in-chief and cross-examination. Subsequently, we had a situation where you required us to declare how much time we needed in evidence-in-chief and cross-examination. I would request that we adopt the same approach, so that my colleagues for the County Assembly do not squander my time in the course of cross-examination.

(Hon. Kingi)

This witness is fairly substantive; I intend to take 30 minutes but I will manage my time---

Counsel let us then agree this way, that: Your examination, evidence-in-chief you will do 30 minutes, the cross examination will take 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me because you have given directions as to cross examination, yesterday when we were dealing with the crucial witness, my learned senior Mr. Katwa, took approximately one hour and 20 minutes with the key witness.

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We may not be much interested with the witness he has subpoenaed just now, but when it comes to the real …… (word expunged at the order of the Speaker), we would request the Senate to relax the rules so that we are able to effectively bring out the fictitious story.

Let us cross the bridge when we get there.

Secondly, perhaps our senior needs to put on record his appearance so that we do not have strangers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my name is Katwa Kigen. The witness I am calling is Mr. Misati assisted by my office assistant, Mr. Sagini. I thought you would require my colleague to withdraw the use of the word “culprit”.

That is unparliamentary. Therefore, I order it to be expunged from the record.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. He has whispered an apology to me and I accept it.

The counsel for the County Assembly was alleging the presence of a stranger in the representation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I explain?

Counsel for the County Assembly are you now comfortable?

To the best of our remembrance Mr. Katwa Kigen did indicate his appearance yesterday. Therefore, we expect and anticipate that the same shall not be adjusted to suit his circumstances.

Counsel proceed.

We proceed directly. You have already given your full names. What do you do for a living?

I am a retired civil servant. I run some small businesses and have some dairy cows for a living.

Your son said that you also run an M-Pesa business.

Yes that is why I have said I have some small businesses, including M-pesa.

I have just asked so that the Senate has the benefit of understanding you. How old are you if you do not mind?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am 68 years old.

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You mentioned you are a retired civil servant. What were you doing before your retirement in the civil service?

In the civil service, I was a livestock officer in the veterinary section.

Lastly, do you have any religious affiliation and do you hold any office in church?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a Catholic and even when I was in form one, I tried to go to Rakworu Seminary where I intended to be a priest, but I fell out on the way.

You are a Catholic as we speak now?

Correct.

Dennis who was a witness yesterday is your son. Is it true?

Yes.

I would like you to be shown the Deputy Governor’s defense page 59-62. Do you have it? Could you confirm that is the statement that you made in respect to this case?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Do you know Dr. Monda?

Very well.

How do you know him?

His Excellency the Deputy Governor of Kisii County, Dr. Robert Onsare Monda and I have known each other for more than 32 years.

You have been friends for over 32 years. Apart from being friends, have you stated in your affidavit that you worked together at various points in your civil service tenure?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I would like to move on because of time. Before we go into details, you know what Dr. Monda, your friend, has been accused of, that he received a bribe from your son and that he also threatened your son. Are you aware of those allegations?

Yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You also heard what your son said in testimony?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Let us start with the first thing that your son admitted. Is it true that he did - throughout the issues that this Senate is going to consider - whenever your son needed anything he would tell you and then you would tell the Deputy Governor?

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No, please.

Did the Deputy Governor have a direct conversation with Dennis?

No.

There is no point at which the two spoke directly to each other. Is it not?

I am the one who did direct communication to the Deputy Governor.

Secondly, he also said that the two of you having been friends were exchanging favors in terms of money, stocks and goodwill between the families over the 32 years. Is that correct?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

He also said that he relocated from Nairobi to Kisii, to your homestead at a certain point in 2023. Is that correct?

If I may explain, I say no. I am the one who relocated my son to move from Nairobi to his homeland in Kisii.

Yes that is what I was asking you. Basically, it is true that he moved from Nairobi to Kisii sometime in the year 2023?

Yes in 2023 and he came alone without his wife.

It is also true as he says that you assisted him to relocate?

Yes, I assisted him to relocate.

How did you assist him?

He had been staying in Nairobi for more than 13 years and there was little communication between my son and I. I am aging and decided to see how I can bring all my children together. I made an effort to look for him. Somewhere between April and May, I called him back home.

Mr. Misati, because of time, let me manage what you are saying. Whose idea was it for him to relocate?

Pardon.

Was it your idea?

It was my idea.

Did you facilitate his relocation?

Correct.

Let us move on then. He says that your testimony both at the Assembly and today, which is captured in your statement, is meant to cause him to lose his money. What do you have to say about that?

About what?

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You want him to lose--- That what you are doing is to frustrate him in getting back his money. What do you have to say about that?

I have not reached there. I do not know which money.

Okay. You want us to deal with that. I will change my approach then we come back. Let us talk about the real issue that we are here about. Is it true that a certain sum of money was paid out to Dr. Monda on the 28th May, 2023?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

It is true. Can you tell this Senate how the money was remitted?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 28th May, 2023, as usual and as friends, I made an appointment to see His Excellency the Deputy Governor at his home. I went with my three sons to his home. As we were seated, I had some social discussions with the Deputy Governor about 20 meters away from where I left my sons. That is the time the Deputy Governor told me that he had given me money in October/November, 2022, after the elections, Kshs500,000. He asked me if I was in a position to refund his money. In that connection, I told him that I could try to refund the money. From my joint account with my wife, I transferred money from my account to His Excellency the Deputy Governor. It was Kshs70,0000 three times and Kshs41, 000. The total figure transferred was Kshs251,000. In our discussions, he told me that he needed some money in cash. I told him that I did not have money in cash but that I will instruct my wife to send money to my son Dennis. My wife did that by sending Kshs250,000 for withdrawal in the nearest market. We tried to get the money but it was late and there was no shop with that float. Therefore, I instructed my son to transfer the money to His Excellency the Deputy Governor Dr. Monda.

Okay. I want us to look at your statement and take the Hon. Senators through the payments. I would like you to go to page 60, paragraph 11, of your statement. I want to correlate that with pages 65 and 66. In paragraph 11 you have said that ‘I, therefore, refunded by paying Kshs251,000 directly from my Co-operative Bank’. Can you see that in paragraph 11?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You paid Kshs70,000 three times and Kshs41,000. I would like us to go to page 65. Are you there?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

On page 65 can you confirm that the remittances of Kshs70,000 are reflected three times?

Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I want you to turn over to page 66. Is it true that Kshs41,000 is shown?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

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Can you confirm that this money that was pulled out of the joint account of yourself and your wife directly to the M-pesa account of Dr. Monda?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The names of the accounts are Joseph D. Misati and Anna N. Misati. Is it?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Let us move on to paragraph 12 where you said, ‘I thereafter asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son Dennis. Can you see that?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I would like to take you to pages 75 to 88. I want us to go specifically to page 87. Are you on page 87? Hon. Senators, his wife’s M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 on the Deputy Governor’s bundle. I want us to particularly go to page 88. Are you there?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Can you confirm that between the hours 1944 and 2001, your wife remitted the sum of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 and Kshs150,000 to Dennis Misati as it appears on the face of that Mpesa

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

That constitutes to a total of how much?

Kshs250,000.

What was the purpose of this remittance of money?

The purpose of this remittance to my son, Dennis---

No. We have seen that you pulled out Kshs250,000 from your Co-operative Bank account and another Kshs250,000 from your wife through Dennis.

That is correct

You sent it to Dr. Monda.

I instructed my son to send---

That is okay. You sent a total of Kshs500,000 to Dr. Monda?

Correct.

What were you giving the Kshs500,000 to Dr. Monda for?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a refund. The money that he gave in October/November, 2022.

This was a refund?

Yes.

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Number two, whose money was this?

The money was ours.

What does ‘ours’ mean? Who and who?

My wife and myself.

It was you and your wife?

Yes.

Was Dennis part of the ownership of that money? The Kshs500,000?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Dennis said that he had given you this money and the two of you were holding this money on his behalf and that he gave you in cash. Is that true?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not true.

It is not true that he had given you any money.

It is not true.

This money was yours and your wife’s?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Your position is that it was a refund. Was it a bribe?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

It was a refund, not a bribe.

It was a refund.

Let us digress a little before we come back to the Kshs300,000. First of all, you said you went with how many sons?

Three

Was it three or four sons?

Okay, I am not counting the driver.

How many sons did you go with?

Four sons.

You were five people in the Deputy Governor’s House?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Who initiated the idea of going to visit the governor?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is me.

It is you who said--- How did you initiate it?

This is not the first time, if I need to---

Because of time, just answer my question directly. How was the idea of going to visit the Governor---

It was through a call.

By who?

By me.

To who?

To His Excelency the Deputy Governor.

It is you who requested to go and see him?

Correct.

When your son says in his statement and affidavit that it is the Deputy Governor who summoned you, is that correct?

No, that is not correct.

Let us move on. Were you, the Deputy Governor and your four sons, seated together when this money changed hands?

No, we were not seated together. I am repeating that, after we went we entered his house, me and His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, moved aside about 20 meters to have our own social discussions.

So, you went aside the two of you?

Correct.

The boys remained 20 meters away?

That is it.

Did they participate in your conversation?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

So, when Dennis says they sat far away from you and that they did not participate in your conversation, that is true?

That is true.

At Paragraph 14, there is another Kshs300,000 that was given to the Deputy Governor. Dennis says there was another Kshs300,000 that was given in cash. What do you have to say in respect to that Kshs300,000?

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is untrue. If you look at my balance in the Cooperative Bank, I had more money, if I were to give the alleged Kshs800,000.

I just want you to answer directly. Dennis says you and him walked into the Deputy Governor’s Office at the stadium and handed over Kshs300,000 in cash. That is what Dennis says, you have seen that. Is it true?

It is not true.

Did you ever give the Deputy Governor any Kshs300,000 over and above the Kshs500,000? Apart from the Kshs500,000 that we have seen, is there any other Kshs300,000 that you gave him?

There is nowhere I have given him the Kshs300,000, as Dennis says.

I would like to move on to paragraph 16 to 17. It is said that this issue has been reported to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). You are aware of the contention that it has been reported to EACC. Is it?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

You are not aware?

I am not aware.

However, you are aware that Dennis says he has reported to EACC?

Yes, I have heard.

You have heard from Dennis?

Yes.

The bank account from which the money was drawn is your Cooperative Bank account and your wife's M- pesa account. Is it?

That is it.

Has the EACC summoned you to record a statement on that issue?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

They have not up to today?

Yes, up to today.

Has your wife been summoned on this issue?

No, please.

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Okay. It is said also that Dennis wrote a demand letter for the payment. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it? A demand letter to ---

I have not seen that letter.

Just a minute. You are aware that Dennis says he wrote a demand letter to the Deputy Governor saying that he be given back his Kshs800,000. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it?

I saw that claim.

You saw that?

Yes.

Is it true that you have ever seen a demand letter from Dennis?

Pardon.

Have you seen any letter demanding---?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

It is also said by Dennis that threats were made at him.

Pardon.

Dennis says that the Deputy Governor threatened him. You have seen that?

I have not seen that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

No. I am saying, you are aware that Dennis says that you threatened him?

Me? I threatened him or who?

No. Dennis says that the Deputy Governor threatened him.

No, please.

No. I am saying, are you aware of that claim by Dennis?

I am aware.

You are aware?

Yes, please.

Are you aware of any threat emanating from the Deputy Governor to Dennis?

No, please.

Okay. He says that threat was communicated to you. That the Deputy Governor told you to go and tell Dennis to keep away because he is trying to climb a mountain he cannot climb. That is what he says and those are the words he used. Were you sent by Deputy Governor at any time to communicate any threat to Dennis?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

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So, when Dennis says that the Deputy Governor sent you, your position is that you were never sent with any such threat?

I have never.

It is also said that Dennis sold a salon. Are you aware of any salon that Dennis had or sold?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Because of time, I will just be brief on this other issue of other assistance. You heard Dennis say that you have been assisting each other for long and you have just already admitted that. Is it?

Correct.

Could you confirm that at Paragraph six of your affidavit, you said how you have been consoling each other when you are bereaved together with the Deputy Governor? I am referring to the paragraph for the benefit of hon. Senators.

Yes.

That specifically, Dr. Monda, was there when you lost your mother and you were there for him when he lost his daughter. You lost you mother in the year 2001 and he lost his daughter in 2018, and the two of you were together.

That is correct.

You also borrowed each other agrovet stock as stated in Paragraph 5. Is it?

Yes.

At Page 67 of you bundle, at Paragraph 24, you said that in the month of January 2024, over time, you have borrowed a total sum of Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda for various purposes?

Yes, about Kshs600,000 for my personal use.

You have captured that at Pages 68, 71 and 70, the various amounts?

Correct.

At Page117A, there is another amount of Kshs50,000. Could you go to Page 117? The one we were just talking about at Pages 68, 71 and 70 was in the month of January, 2024. Is it?

Yes.

At Page 117A, you received another Kshs50,000. Whom did you receive that Kshs50,000 from?

Pardon.

Is it true that you received a sum of Kshs50,000 in the year 2014 from Joyce Monda?

Yes.

Who is Joyce Monda?

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Joyce Monda---

Actually, let us say, Joyce Onsare.

Joyce Onsare is the wife of the Deputy Governor of Kisii.

What was the basis of this money?

This is a usual transaction where we have been making by borrowing, receiving and refunding.

Lastly, in terms of the favours you give each other, I would like you to look at pages 108 to 117. Pages 108 to 117 is the bank statement of one Leah Onsare. Can you see that?

Yes.

Who is Leah Onsare?

Leah Onsare--

Leah Nyanjera Onsare, who is she?

Leah Nyanjera Onsare is the daughter of His Excellency the Deputy Governor of Kisii

At Page 111, there is a sum of Kshs200,000 from Joseph Misati and Anna. That is your joint account. There is Joseph Misati Anna. You can see that?

Yes.

Could you tell the Senate what was happening there?

The Deputy Governor instructed me to send this money to his daughter.

Why?

As usual, we have been assisting each other. Thereafter, she was to refund.

Who needed the money?

According to this, I was instructed by the Deputy Governor to send money to his daughter.

Who needed the money? Was it the Deputy Governor or what is the position?

This money was needed by his daughter.

So, the daughter needed money. Why was the Deputy Governor not sending the money to his daughter?

That one I cannot explain.

You cannot explain?

Yes.

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Mr. Misati, just look at me.Was the Deputy Governor giving you instructions or requesting you?

Do you know English? He just requested me.

So, he was not instructing you?

Not instructing me.

I was told I have five minutes. Lastly, your son said you were lying ama unasema uongo ukija hapa. What do you have to say about that, that you are lying?

That is not true. I love all my sons. I have six sons in total and all of them, except one, are graduates. Others have done Masters degrees.

All your children are graduates and others have postgraduate degrees?

Correct.

And you love all of them?

I love them equally. That is why when I want to go to some places, they accompany me.

They take you with them because mnapendana.

That is it.

Why did you relocate Dennis from Nairobi?

If I may repeat that, when somebody is---

I am out of time.

I wanted him to be nearer me.

Was it out of a desire to punish him or out of affection that you needed to take care of his welfare?

I wanted him to be near me and get some blessings before--- -

Before what?

I am not going to say that.

You want to withdraw that?

Yes.

How do you feel about appearing here with your son before the Senate to banter words with him?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very sad because this is my son and it is me who paid his school fees and for his daughter,who is schooling at St. Mary’s Nyabururu Girls’ Boarding Primary School.

So, you take care of the school fees for his daughter?

Yes.

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Is there any relationship between paying of school fees for his daughter and Kshs600,000 you borrowed from Dr. Monda in January, 2024?

The Kshs600,000 was given to me by His Excellency the Deputy Governor in January, on various dates. I used some of the money to pay school fees for my granddaughters, including Dennis’s daughter. After paying school fees, my son disappeared from my home.

My time is over. I want to hand you over for cross-examination, but before I do that, could you confirm, notwithstanding these proceedings, whether you still love your son?

That is my son. I love him and want him to come back with his wife.

They said his wife had a miscarriage. Are you aware of that?

I may not know things like those because--- I can say no. She told me that she was sick, then I took her to the hospital using my money.

So, you relocated him from Nairobi, paid school fees for his daughter and took care of his wife?

Correct.

And you are prepared to continue doing that?

Always.

Are you happy to have your sons, including Dennis?

That is my son and I will always be happy because--- It is only that yesterday when I met him, he denounced me.

I am handing you over. It is lucky that you did not become a priest because you would not have had Dennis and the others.

Pardon?

I am told that my time is up. You will be asked a couple of questions by my colleague. They might not be as polite as I am, but just be strong.

Hon. Senators, let us now have the Counsel representing the County Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. It is always a pleasure to listen to my Senior, Mr. Kigen.

Counsel, you have only 15 minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mutuma will take the witness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure my learned friend that I will be kind to Mr. Misati. I respect him and I will accord him that respect.

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Mr. Misati, good morning?

Good morning to you.

I will continue from where my learned friend has left. You confirm that you are aware that the wife to Dennis got sick at some moment and you intervened by taking her to hospital?

I said yes.

When was that?

I cannot recall the date.

Was it this year or last year?

It was somewhere in June.

That was last year.

It was in 2023.

And that is the time when the announcement was made on the filling of the recruitment at the GWASCO Limited, is it not?

No, please.

Was it after or before?

It was after.

Thank you. You have also said that you have been long time friends with the Deputy Governor for 32 years, and that is very clear from your transactions. Right?

Correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

You have been colleagues. He was your boss and you worked under him in the Veterinary Department, correct?

That is true, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

And you continued and extended that friendship beyond retirement?

Even up to now.

You would describe that friendship to be very tight and close, is it not?

That one is relative.

How would you describe it? He is your friend. That friendship is close and tight, is it not?

Yes.

Very tight? You would not then want to witness a close friend going down through an impeachment process, would you?

That is relative too.

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Would you want to see your close friend of 32 years go down through an impeachment process? Would you like to see that?

He is a friend, of course, and I would never wish for anything which is against him.

Thank you. Therefore, you will do whatever it is within your powers to defend and protect him when he is faced with challenges, like he has stood up for you previously?

But not through instructions.

But he is your friend and that is something you would willingly do.

It is a willing behaviour.

Thank you. While I am still at that, you have confirmed in your affidavit appearing at Page 59 of the Deputy Governor’s response that you have been asking favours from each other, including seeking job opportunities for your children. Is that correct?

Like any other person.

In this case, we are talking about you and not any other person.

That is correct.

So, you have been seeking those favours?

Not always.

Specifically, in this case, you have deponed an affidavit that you did approach the Deputy Governor and asked him to assist in employment of your son, Dennis Mokaya. That is your evidence, correct?

That is true.

So, you are not disputing that you approached him and he promised to assist?

I cannot dispute, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Which position were you asking him to assist in the recruitment?

Somewhere in April, 2023, there was an advertisement at GWASCO, which I saw through the newspapers. Since I wanted my son back home, I informed my son to go through the website and look for the application.

So, it was you who approached your son and notified him of a possible vacancy at GWASCO.

It is me who informed my son.

Thank you. Subsequently, you asked the Deputy Governor before shortlisting to assist in that recruitment.

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No, please. I went to the Deputy Governor's place after the interview was done.

After the interview was done?

Correct.

At whatever time. The Deputy Governor of Kisii does not sit in the interviewing panel of GWASCO, does he? It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. Does he or does he not sit in the recruitment panel of GWASCO?

He does not.

How was the Deputy Governor supposed to assist in the recruitment of your son if he does not sit in that panel?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in any case, when you are having some social discussion, there are some things you pass through your friend.

I am asking you a very good question. How was the Deputy Governor supposed to assist in recruitment for an office he is not in charge of recruitment? It is a very simple question.

What I can repeat is that when you have something and you have some social discussions with your friend, you just mention as a by the way.

You were inviting the Deputy Governor to use his power and influence to secure that job as the Deputy Governor of Kisii. Is it not?

I never influenced that.

That is not what I am asking. The Governor was supposed to use his position as the Deputy to assist in the recruitment. Is it not?

Yes, or no.

It cannot be both.

Witness, just give the correct position. What is your position on the questions that you are being asked? These are very straight questions that you are being asked, anyway.

He was supposed to use his position to assist with the recruitment of your son as your friend. Is it not?

He was not to use his position, but as a friend, not the position of the Deputy Governor.

But he was supposed to ensure that happens.

I cannot say that because he never got the job.

But suppose he got the job? I am talking about your request. In your understanding, what was he supposed to do to make sure that, that job was secured?

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I cannot tell what he was to do.

But he was supposed to pull some strings and ensure that happens?

I cannot tell the House the way he was to use.

But somehow, he was supposed to use some means to have that request?

If he was to use his way, strength or position, I would have got that position.

Mr. Misati, if the Deputy Governor was to intervene in that process of recruitment, would that process be competitive, fair and just or it would have been as a result of influence from his position as the Deputy Governor?

What we are talking about is what happened.

Pardon.

What we are talking about right now is what happened. If the position was competitive and my son was not taken, therefore, he never qualified.

But the Deputy Governor was meant to influence the outcome based on your request because you did not want any other person to get that job, but your son. Is it not?

Influence is very relative. I can say that ---

What is your point of order, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you need to remind the witness that he is under oath and his responsibility to answer truthfully and not be evasive or argumentative in his answers. This is because I am getting very frustrated listening to the answers. I am unable to discern the answers that are coming from the witness.

Sen. Sifuna, from where I sit, you know, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not, but he should. What he needs to do is to answer specific questions as they are.

That is what I am saying.

The questions are just ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. From where I sit, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not. The judges in this room will be able to determine that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately for me, I am seated here as a judge. Please, let him just answer the question.

I have heard you, Sen. Sifuna.

I do not want to open that route. I have ruled that the witness should answer questions directly, as he is asked. Let us not go to the route of more point of orders kindly, hon. Senators.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

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Mr. Witness, when you approached your friend of 32 years, the Deputy Governor of Kisii on this request, what was his response?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I have mentioned earlier, when I went to his home, it is only that we did have some social discussions, including looking for employment opportunities.

Mr. Witness, my question is specific. When you made the request for Dennis Mokaya to be employed at GWASCO, as the commercial manager, what was the response of the Deputy Governor? It is a very clear question. Please, avoid stories.

When I mentioned, he just told me that there are some factors which follow for any employment. If he has done the interview and he qualifies according to what the Board of Management of GWASCO, he will be called.

Did he promise to assist or not?

He never promised that he was to assist me.

Let us proceed. You have alleged that on 28th May, you and Dennis, together with your other sons, visited the Deputy Governor’s home. Correct?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes.

It was not usual for you and your sons to visit the Deputy Governor. It does not happen occasionally. Is it not?

It is usual.

When was the last time you and your sons visited the Deputy Governor, specifically, with Dennis?

Okay, I told you that Dennis has been away for the last 13 years. Now, as he came back, I wanted to show him the love I have towards him. In any function I was going, I was to go with him with the others.

That was not a function, Mr. Joseph; it was a visit.

A function, a visit and anything like that.

What was the function about?

The function can be a funeral.

I am specifically asking about this for the 28th. Was it a funeral or a wedding?

It was a feast.

What kind of a feast was it?

A social feast.

How many people were in attendance apart form you and your sons?

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No, there were other visitors who were in the Deputy Governor’s house.

You have not mentioned that in your affidavit.

Those ones were of their own company. I cannot mention because I never knew their names.

You also stated that on that very day, you had a discussion with the Deputy Governor and the boys - referring to your sons - sat at a distance and you engaged the Deputy Governor secretly. Correct?

That is true.

You also stated that you sent some money from your Cooperative Bank account to the Deputy Governor’s mobile number. How much was that amount? The one that was sent directly from your account to the Deputy Governor’s phone.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was Kshs251,000.

At that time, your account still had money, a balance of Kshs1.3 million. Correct?

Correct.

What was the essence of then requesting your wife to send money directly to Dennis for Dennis to transmit to the Deputy Governor, when you would have done that directly from your Cooperative Bank account, if it was a debt?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was for my financial management.

You also stated in your affidavit--- I want to refer you to Paragraph 12 and kindly read that paragraph. Hon. Senators, it is on page 60 of the Deputy Governor’s response. This is what you stated under oath. Mr. Joseph, kindly read Paragraph 12 and save our time.

“I then asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son, Dennis Misati, for him to pay as we sat together. My wife then sent Kshs250,000 to my son, Dennis Misati, on the same date by remitting remittances of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 again and Kshs150,000, making a total of Kshs250,000.”

Proceed to 13.

“I then instructed my son to remit the Kshs249,000 to His Excellency the Deputy Governer, Robert Monda, which he did. The balance of Kshs1,000, partly to cover transaction charges.”

There is no mention whatsoever in your affidavit on Oath, Mr. Joseph, that, that money was first sent to your son to go and withdraw and bring it in cash. That is not stated in this affidavit. Is it? You instructed your son specifically to send the money to the Deputy Governor. That is your statement on oath. Is it not so?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir---

That is your statement on oath, ‘yes’ or ‘no’?

No.

That is what you have just read, Mr. Joseph. There is a reason I made you to read. This is what you stated specifically under Oath, when you had the time to prepare this Statement. Is it not what you stated on oath?

Yes, this is what I stated, but---

Thank you. You have answered the question. This is what you stated.

Correct.

You have now come to the Senate and you are changing that statement.

I am not changing. It is after the discussion when we were with His Excellency the Deputy Governor that he needed some cash---

Mr. Misati, that discussion had taken place by the time you were putting this affidavit into writing. Is that not so?

Yes.

So, that fact was available to you when you were writing this affidavit. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with much humility, kindly may I have an additional five minutes?

This Communication was well put before we started with this witness. You are also aware that still we are challenged by time.

Five more minutes, I beg.

The former Chair was here and did a very good Communication, and I do not want to change the rules of the game midway. I will give you one minute as you wind up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly give me five minutes because this has been a difficult witness in answering question.

Two minutes only, Counsel.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Now, you had that information by the time you were reducing it into an affidavit. Is that not so? You had the information that the Deputy Governor had requested for cash and not through an M-pesa. That information was with you when you were writing this affidavit.

It was, but---

Thank you. That is the answer I wanted. However, you did not reduce it in writing. You are telling us for the

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first time today, at the Senate. Is that not so? Is today the first time you are making that allegation at the Senate? That is a very simple question.

Correct.

You also stated that you were in the company of your other sons, and one of them is your driver. Correct?

That is it, Mr. Speaker. Sir.

What is the name of your son, who is also your driver?

Jared Misati.

Is that the person who runs your errands and is very close to you because he is always with you, we presume as your driver? Is it not so?

That is not true.

He is always with you as your driver.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think he is lying.

I am asking a question. How would I be lying? I am not giving evidence. Are you telling us that your son, who is your driver, is not your close friend, and you are not with him most of the times as you make your movements?

Mr. Speaker, Sir---.

It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

I have some bit of explanation to give before I say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

Just give a ‘yes’ or ‘no,’ then I will decide whether to allow you to explain or not.

Can you repeat your question?

I am asking, most of the times, this son you have, who is your driver, is with you and runs errands with you. True or false?

That is my son and he is the only one who is at home. He is only the driver.

So, he is close to you when you are running your errands. Correct?

No, that is not true.

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Mr. Witness, is there a place you go without him as your driver? You do not drive yourself. He drives you.

Since I do not have any other person to drive me, my son, who is at home and who is yet to be employed, and who is older than Dennis, always takes me.

That is what you should have said from the beginning.

Counsel, your two minutes are over.

Thank you. Then very last one.

Counsel, now---

I was building up on that issue.

You are abusing my magnanimity. Kindly, let us get the other Counsel. There will be a lot of prejudice on my part if I do not conclude on that issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will note that this has been a very difficult---

It is up to you to utilize the two minutes that I give you. If you keep on asking for more time and I have directed you what to do, why do you not shoot your questions that you want to achieve?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the problem---

Hon. Senators, if the witness has those weaknesses, you are the people to determine this case. I do not want you to direct the witness on what to say or what not to say. Please, avoid exchanging with the Chair. Senate Minority Leader, just give me time to manage this process. This is not an issue of which side or not. Please, I beg you. Let me have the other Counsel.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me as the Lead Counsel, the defence still has six more witnesses. The rest of the witnesses have been allocated 15 minutes each. We will sacrifice one witness. We will not cross-examine him. Then, we will allocate that 15 minutes to this witness. We will not cross-examine one of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs), so that we are able to do justice to this case through this witness. That is the compromise we shall make.

For record purposes, can you give me the name of the Member of County Assembly that you want to cede the 15 minutes?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will not cross-examine Thomas Obare Nyabaro and Amos Obegi Oderi. So, we will have extra 30 minutes for this witness. We shall allocate 15 minutes to this one and 15 minutes to the Deputy Governor. It is horse-trading.

I will give you 15 minutes for the first one. For Thomas, I will give 15 minutes. Strictly 15 minutes, Counsel, no addition, no subtraction.

We are most obliged, it is good horse-trading. We are most humbled.

You cannot use more than 15 minutes. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You notice that this is a key witness that needs to be thoroughly cross-examined. Mr. Misati, you have confirmed that your son, who is your driver, is mostly with you when you are running your errands. Correct?

Running my what?

Errands. When you are going about your business, he is the one who is close to you. He is the one who is at home. He is your driver. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Why was it then important for you to send money to Dennis, who is not that close to you, than use your driver who had a car, to go and withdraw that money and bring it back?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, in our discussion said that he needed some cash instead of going to M-pesa. That is the time I decided that the money was to be remitted to a younger person, who will be able to run quickly to the---

Mr. Witness, could your son run faster than your car that is being driven by your other son? Is that what you are telling the Senators, that, indeed, Dennis was capable of running faster than a driver with a car?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we have said that, I have used Jared Misati to be my driver, and that is indicating he is the most trusted to me in terms of management. I wanted also to show my son, Dennis Misati, that I love him through sending that money, for him to also act on that.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): That has been noted, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have also claimed at Paragraph 24 - hon. Senators, that is appearing at Page 61 - that the amount of money that you sent to Dr. Monda was part of the Kshs600,000 he had lent you. Correct? You have alleged at Paragraph 24 that previously, you had received Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda.

That was in January.

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Mr. Elias Mutuma): You are claiming that part of that money went to pay school fees for Dennis’s child?

Among other expenses.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): How much money did you spend as school fees to the child of Dennis Mokaya? It is a very straightforward question,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Kshs60,000.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): You confirm from your own affidavit that it is you who paid that amount directly? That is what you state. Can you read the last sentence of that paragraph again and save our time? Proceed from “the amounts were partly---”

The amounts were partly used to help my son Dennis, especially, fees for his child that I personally paid.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. You personally paid that amount?

Correct.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Which account did you pay to, what was the mode of payment and do you have evidence of payment of that amount?

This payment here looks relative, it is only that the money originated from me and I gave---

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Misati, I only have 15 minutes and I want to utilize them very effectively. I am asking a specific question. To what account did you pay; the school’s account, what mode and where is the evidence? It is very straightforward. So, please, do not bring stories, we do not have time for that.

The money of the Kshs60,000 plus other monies which---

Mr. Elias Mutuma): No, we are specific on the Kshs60,000 paid personally by you to the school.

The Kshs60,000 paid as school fees for my granddaughter, I gave it to one of my sons, including the other money to go and pay.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Misati, you have just read to us Paragraph 24, that you personally paid. Is that not what you read?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir---

Mr. Elias Mutuma): No, No. Kindly save our time, Mr. Misati. Is that not what you read, that you personally paid Kshs60,000?

Personally paid is also relative, but not to indicate where I put the money. I gave the money and my son took it to the bank, including others.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge the House to take note of the conduct of the witness and allow me to proceed. What is the name of your granddaughter?

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Celda Kwamboka Mokaya.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): How old is she?

She is, I think, 13 years.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Where is she currently?

I took her to St.---

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Where is she currently?

I cannot tell because when my son disappeared, I do not know where they went. However, previously, it was me who took her to Nyabururu.

Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I yield the rest of the minutes to my learned friend, Mr. Njiru.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you, Mr. Mutuma. Mr. Witness, have a look at the bundle of documents by the County Assembly. Hon. Senators, I am referring to Page 184. Witness, I have seven minutes to deliver this. This is the HANSARD of 29th August, 2023 from the County Assembly. Look at the last paragraph where the hon. Deputy Governor is answering. Before I go to that, when the Deputy Governor asked you to refund the Kshs500,000, what did he tell you the money was meant for?

Pardon?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): When he asked you to return the Kshs500,000 he had lent you, what did he tell you the money was for?

He told me that he had some functions he was to use that money for.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Which functions in particular?

Which included trying to go outside the country.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, the money was specifically meant to go out of the country?

Among other things.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Are those other things that you are referring to, the issues that you are discussing and more specifically, the forwarding of the Kshs100,000 to one Lucy--- Are you aware or not?

I was not aware.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): I want you to look at Page 189 of the same bundle. Did the Deputy Governor travel? Are you aware or not?

I am not aware.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Look at Page 189, Volume one of the same bundle by the County Assembly. It is the HANSARD of 29th August. Who made the request for you to be assisted for Dennis to secure a job?

It is me.

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Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): To whom did you make it? Did you make it to your friend, Dr. Monda or to the Deputy Governor of Kisii County?

My friend, Dr. Monda.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Where was that job supposed to come from; from his farm, from his shop or from the county government? I have asked you two issues. Where was the job supposed to come from?

From the county government.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you. Look at the paragraph where we have the hon. Deputy Governor. Can you see that?

Yes.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Would you read out what the Deputy Governor is saying?

Hon. Deputy Governor---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Can you see where he is saying, “Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as a good friend---”

As great friends, Mr. Joseph and I, somewhere in 1st April, was made to know that there is an advert that has come up in GWASCO and Misati, as a friend, could ask me that his son has also tendered his application.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): In this respect, which son is the Deputy Governor making reference to?

Dennis.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Proceed? Can you see where my Senior, Katwa Kigen, is saying, so he requested if you could assist?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What does the Deputy Governor say? Does he say that he made the request?

Yes.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Proceed to read. “And did you talk to Lucy about the request about your friend?” That is Mr. Katwa Kigen asking the Deputy Governor. That is my learned friend, Mr. Katwa Kigen, asking the Deputy Governor, whether the Deputy Governor spoke to Lucy. Can you see that?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What was his answer?

Deputy Governor: “Like any other leader, this request came to me. Everyone, hon. Members, knows that Lucy is the GWASCO would work---”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Next page.

Like any other staff who under the Governor’s Office, where I am also the Deputy Governor---

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Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, he acknowledges that Lucy works under the Governor’s Office and that Mr. Monda is also under the same office? That is the acknowledgement, ‘yes’ or ‘no?’

As it is.

Thank you. Proceed to read.

To the Governor and--- so indicated to Lucy---

So, I indicated to Lucy. Asking her if they had such kind of jobs and she said ‘yes.’ As a friend, making a request that he gets his son a job, like everyone of us here would do, and she told me, ‘let us wait for the process. If he qualifies, we shall not deny him a job.’ Is that the discussion?

According to this, yes.

Are you aware that the Deputy Governor, your dear friend, whom you have come to defend this morning, sent Kshs100,000 to Ms. Lucy?

I am not aware.

Will it, therefore, surprise you that part of the money you sent to him that day was shared with one Ms. Lucy?

I will not be surprised.

Thank you. Have a look at your affidavit. It is in the Deputy Governor’s bundle of document, at Page 60. Witness, are you there?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Have a look at Paragraph 12. Kindly, read it out.

I then asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son, Dennis Misati, for him to pay---

Thank you. That is what I want us to explain. For him to do what?

To pay.

What was he paying?

The refund.

Excuse me, is it to refund or to pay? Do you understand English, Mr. Witness?

English is for the lawyers.

Thank you. I will now teach you.

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Order, Senators.

I put it to you that there is a difference between the statement ‘to pay’ and ‘to refund.’ Therefore, because you have preserved English for us, the lawyers, I put it to you that the two words have different meanings. Yes?

It is very difficult for me to understand.

I, therefore, put it to you that paying is different from refunding.

According to you, yes.

Therefore, I further put it to you that the word ‘payment’ being used here is the corruption and bribery for your son to succeed with a job. Yes?

Payment is not a bribe. It will depend with the context.

In this context now. Thank you.

That is wrong.

Let us have a look at Page 111 of the same bundle of Deputy Governor. It is a statement by Leah Nyachera Onsare, a statement from Co-operative Bank.

Correct.

You are the one who has brought this document. Correct?

No.

You are not the one who brought this document.

I am not the one who brought this statement.

Where did it come from?

It came from Leah Onsare.

Is she a witness in this proceeding?

I am not aware.

I put it to you that she is not a witness.

You have said so.

Now, Mr. Witness, who sent this money to Leah?

It is me and my wife from the joint accounts.

Upon whose request?

Upon the Deputy Governor’s request.

So, the Deputy Governor asked you to send the Kshs200,000?

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Correct.

Did you ask him what it was meant for?

That was for his personal use.

So, if I put it to you that the Deputy Governor, for whom you so love, is a person who has insatiable desire for resources, and that is the reason he is always in a begging mood, what would you say?

That is very untrue.

Thank you, no further questions.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, you have 10 minutes for re-examination.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sorry, proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is to appeal to you. The appeal is arising from the provisions of the Rules of Procedure. I invite you to look at Rule No.22 in our Standing Orders. I am appealing to you that you vacate your direction, in order to accommodate the time constraints, the Counsel for the County Assembly should lose his opportunity to cross-examine two witnesses. Rule No. 22 says- “A witnesses presented shall be led in evidence, cross-examined and, where necessary and only for purposes of clarification of issues that may have arisen in cross- examination, a witness may be re-examined.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the long years of experience in this Parliament, I know that whatever decision we make here is still open to being challenged in the High Court. If we are going to be found to have breached our own Rules, our very ultimate decision is open to being challenged. We are not going to dine from---

What is your point of order? Are you suggesting that the witness should not be re-examined?

Yes. It looks like you were not listening to me.

Rule No.22 is addressing cross- examination. Just in case there are other issues of clarifications, the Witness is summoned.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know. If you listened to me, you would see where I am heading. The point I am making is that vacate your ruling that two witnesses---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I made that ruling. You should sit down.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take that.

I cannot vacate my ruling. Sorry.

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That is why I am rising to draw your attention to provisions of the Rules of Procedure, No.22.

Rule No.22 does not address the matter you put.

It is.

Are you also challenged in English Language?

Am I?

Let me give Sen. Cherargei an opportunity to say something. He is a lawyer, who practices English than you.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, resume your seat. I have heard you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are cautioned because- -- The Bible says that we should not serve the law, but that the law should serve us. In our Ruling No.30 of the same on the procedures, you have the power to determine on a particular question, but not limited to question of evidence, materiality, relevance, competency or admissibility of evidence and any question consequential or incidental thereto. Your ruling is Solomonic and should not be vacated. In any case, in the tradition and precedent, the issue raised by my brother, the Senate Majority Whip, has been overtaken by events. That matter has stopped from being discussed. Therefore, I request that we proceed as you had directed.

Thank you, let us proceed now. Take a minute, Sen. Sifuna.

I wanted to calm the nerves of my senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that far from the big words Sen. Cherargei wants to use, he has not shed light on the issue. I want to calm his anxiety by explaining that if a party has chosen to waive their right to cross-examination, there is no problem. So, it is them who have requested to waive that right to cross-examine those two. Not under pressure, so that they can focus their attention on other witnesses they believe would better advance the argument. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you are just okay. You are struggling, but you are okay.

Sen. Sifuna, you are out of order. Can you withdraw that last point?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was with a light note, but I withdraw and apologize. You are a man of substance.

Counsel, you have 10 minutes. Let us proceed.

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Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I trust my 10 minutes starts running from now.

Yes, from now.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Mr. Joseph Misati---

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

A number of questions were put to you on whether you defend the Deputy Governor on whatever he wants. You were also asked on whether you act on his instruction and that you would do anything. The question I want to ask you directly is: would you go out of your way to defend the truth or --- What are you defending today? Is it the truth?

The truth, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are standing for the truth

Yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): All you say is based on your truth?

Pardon?

Mr. Katwa Kigen): What you are standing on is what you believe to have been the true position?

My true position in this case---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just confirm that what you have said is based on what you know to be the truth. It has nothing to do with whether or not you want to help the Deputy Governor. True?

That is it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): The second issue I want to put to you is, you were asked by my colleagues whether the Deputy Governor promised you that your son would get a job. I want you to just confirm that for emphasis. Did he make any promise to you?

No. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): The question was also put to you. Did you know what he wanted to do to assist your son get a job? Did you know?

No.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did he promise to use his position to get your son the job?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I move to another question. You were asked whether you usually make visits to the Deputy Governor with your sons. What is your answer?

Correct. That is true.

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Mr. Katwa Kigen): You normally visit him?

Yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Dennis said yesterday that was the first time he had gone to the Deputy Governor’s house. That is what he said. Do you have an explanation for that proposition?

Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is said that my son, Dennis Misati, was his first time to go with me to the Deputy Governor---

We want to object to that line because it never came out during cross-examination. During the cross- examination, the witness must be tailored to answer the questions that have come from the examination. He cannot introduce a new ground that we never dealt with in cross- examination. He is re-examining the witness.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all I am doing is reacting to the proposition that was put to the witness as to whether he normally goes with his sons to visit the Deputy Governor or otherwise that was the first time and distinguishes the rest of the visits. So, I am just making the point as to whether or not indeed he has been visiting the Deputy Governor and if Dennis was making the first visit as opposed to the other sons and what the explanation is. That is all I am doing. I pray that you---

Just stick to that lane. You have a lot of experience, Katwa Kigen.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you, Mr, Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want you to be very verbose. Could you just answer the question? Why was it that Dennis was going there for the first time that day?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier, I stated that my son has been in Nairobi for more than 13 years.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, the reason you had not gone with him is because he has been away from Kisii in the neighbourhood of the visit. True?

correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You have been asked why you chose Dennis to receive the M-Pesa as opposed to Jared whom you have always worked with. What is your answer to that? Why did you choose Dennis?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have got a number of children, you must balance how you can love them. In that context, you can see that Jared is the person who has been driving me. Dennis has just come and I just want to show him that I love him by sending that money. In other words, not loving because I sent the money. It is just to indicate that I must balance my love towards my sons.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you were showing love and trust to all of them?

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I trust and love all of them equally.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You will continue to do that?

That is it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): You were taken to task on the contents of paragraph 24 of your affidavit. I would like you to look at that. If you remember, your affidavit is at page 59. I would like us to visit paragraph 24. Are you there?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir

Mr. Katwa Kigen): An issue was taken on the point you made “especially fees for his child and I personally paid.” You have seen that?

Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): What did you mean by saying that you personally paid?

It means from my pocket to any other---

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, your point is that the money that was paid was used to pay your grandchild's fees was yours.

It was mine. That is what I mean.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): How was the money remitted to the school account?

I gave one of my sons to go and remit the money.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, one of your sons went. In the meantime, whose money was that son of yours taking?

One of my son that Dennis is saying----

Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you gave your son to go and pay in the school account. True? Whose money was your son carrying?

My money.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like to move on to page 189 of the County Governments bundle. That is the HANSARD. Particularly, I would like us to look at page 190 of that HANSARD. Could you confirm that it is not you but rather the Deputy Governor talking starting from pages 189 to 190 on the paragraph that was read to you? Is it you or the Deputy Governor talking?

It is the Deputy Governor, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Can you answer for the words of the Deputy Governor or it is for the Deputy Governor to answer for that?

That is why I was unable to.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like us to read the last sentence to the Deputy Governor’s statement running from pages 189-190. Could you read this last paragraph?

“And she told me, let us wait for the process and if he qualifies, we shall not deny him the job and the discussion ended there”.

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Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, the Deputy Governor is saying that he talked to the Managing Director of the Gusii Water and Sanitation Company who said that they await the process and if he qualifies, we will not deny him. As it is there

Yes, as it is there.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is my last question. I want to take you back to the 28th of May when you met. Wakati mlikuwamnaongea kwa nyumba. Did you say, and I am quoting the words you used “that the Deputy Governor told you there are factors that exist to get a job”?

That is correct

Mr. Katwa Kigen): He said there are factors.

Sorry?

Mr. Katwa Kigen): There are factors .

Correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Is that consistent with what we have just read on page 190 of the HANSARD?

Correct.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): That the Director said it depends on whether he qualifies.

Those are the factors, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to leave my re-examination there. Thank you very much Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Counsel, are you done with the witness?

Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes. I am done, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

For this particular witness, I want to give a few Senators an opportunity to seek clarification. My dashboard is full. So, I am kindly requesting whether we can agree we do it four Members from each side so that we can make progress. We start with Sen. Sen. Orwoba.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question is to Joseph Misati. You said that you have six sons. Yes?

Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir

Is your wife the biological mother to all of these six sons?

Ask through the Speaker so that he can respond to you. You know---

Okay, that is one of my questions. I would like to know if your wife, whom you are referencing, is the biological mother to all of the six sons, including Dennis.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my next question goes to the Senior Counsel. Counsel, I do not know whether you are conversant with Article 76 of our Constitution. In reference to page 61 of the Deputy Governor’s Volume, from paragraphs 24, 25, and 26, we have been subjected to this relationship of two personal friends who are giving favours to each other in form of soft loans. My question to Senior Counsel is in reference to Article 76 which highlights that a public officer should not use his office in any manner, particularly financial sense or soft loans, to erode the public confidence in favour of a person on insurance. Would you agree with me that from what you have showcased here, particularly in paragraphs 24, 25, and 26, on page 61, the Deputy Governor went against Article 76 of the Constitution? Finally, is on the issue of money being transferred. My question is; why did the Deputy Governor not just withdraw the cash and refund directly?

Sen. Orwoba, your two minutes are over. Those are two questions; one to the Counsel and the other one to the witness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as it has been raised, I am the biological father to Dennis Misati.

Hon. Senators, let us not introduce new and irrelevant issues that were not in the presentations. I want you to avoid those biological issues that you have been asked to do because they did not arise and they are seeking clarifications. Just answer relevant questions that you have been asked. Do not bother about the children and whether they are biological or not.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. It is only that talking about issues of who is the mother and who is the father---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second question was directed at me in terms of the provisions of Article 76 of the Constitution and the need for the propriety of conduct by---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I proceed?

Please proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Regarding whether the Deputy Governor conducted himself properly in accordance to Article 76 of the Constitution, our answer is that he conducted himself properly. First of all, we are not making an admission that this money was meant to make an influence because it was a mere refund. It is our position that borrowing between friends is not prohibited by Article 76 of the Constitution of Kenya. It is our position also that if it were to have been the case that it was meant to be a bribe, that is when you can invoke Article 76 of the Constitution. Our position is that it was not a bribe. It was a friendly loan between the two of them. It was a refund that was made on 28th May, 2023.

Let us have Sen. Wambua.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have three straight questions to the witness.

You have two minutes.

Mr. Witness, what was the role of your sons in your visit to the Deputy Governor’s home? They accompanied and stayed away from you. When you went back, they had not heard what you discussed. What was their role in that visit? Secondly, to the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When you allegedly sent him money to send to the Deputy Governor, did you also give him the Deputy Governor’s cell phone number? Thirdly, is it your evidence on record and on oath that your son has cooked up a story to malign a person that he has no personal relationship with?

Proceed, Mr. Witness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the love of my children, I usually move with them when they are at home especially on weekends when we want to visit friends. Secondly---

Did you get the other questions?

What was the second question?

Hon. Senator, let us avoid asking the witness many questions. Perhaps you should be writing them down so that you remember. The assistant there who is standing by the witness should assist and not necessarily the counsel. He should record what is being asked. Sen. Wambua, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want you to guide us in these proceedings. Is it right for the counsel to coach the witness when we seek clarification from him?

I have directed that the counsel’s assistant should note what Senators are asking, so that you give the questions to the witness. That is why you are standing beside him to support him.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the avoidance of doubt, I was not guiding him. I was just reminding him what the second question was; being, whether there is a relationship between---

Sen. Wambua, please, ask your second question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this is the most important. To the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When he was given the money to send, was he also given the cell phone number of the Deputy Governor?

Please, answer that question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all my sons, including Dennis, have a relationship with the Deputy Governor.

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Secondly, for the money that was sent to my son Dennis Misati to forward to the His Excellency the Deputy Governor, it is me who gave him the Deputy Governor’s number.

That is okay.

He has answered that. Did you have four questions? Which other one? Hon. Senators, let us just ask two questions in the two minutes because we cannot restrict two minutes for Senators---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how you deal with your two minutes is your problem. If I can ask 20 questions in two minutes---

What I mean is that if we give Senators two minutes, then the witness will require 20 minutes.

If there is a problem with the witness answering the question, that is my problem.

Kindly ask your last question.

The last question is whether it is your evidence on record and on oath that your son Dennis has actually cooked up a story to malign a person whom he has no personal relationship with in the name and character of the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to what the Senator has said, I can also summarise what is going on. My son was lured, intoxicated with some of the people with an aim to use him to fail the Deputy Governor. After I paid school fees, my son stayed at home for three or four days and a vehicle came to collect him. I do not know where they went with his wife and I cannot tell up to now.

Next is Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two quick questions for Mr. Misati. Does he have any documentary evidence that shows that he has borrowed the money from the Deputy Govenor-Kshs600,000? Second, is there any contribution from his son –Dennis - in regards to the payment of Kshs600,000 paid to the Deputy Governor?

Witness, kindly respond.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is usual for friends, unless that amount of money is a loan, in most cases. However, I do not have evidence because he gave me the money due to trust.

The second question.

I have not understood the second question.

Give Sen. Chute the microphone kindly.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question is for the witness. If there are any contributions made from his son, Dennis, in regards to the payment of the Kshs600,000 paid through M-pesa to the Deputy Governor.

Proceed to answer.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I never sent the said Kshs600,000 to the Deputy Governor. It was the Deputy Governor who sent that money to me. Therefore, Dennis’s contribution is not there.

Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was really looking forward to an explanation from the witness as to why it was necessary for the money that was sent from Dennis to be sent by him. The money went from the mother, to Dennis then to the Deputy Governor. If indeed, it was a debt it would have been sent directly either by him or the mother to the Deputy Governor. However, he has made a curious comment. That it was for his own financial management. I want him to clarify that for me. It does not make financial sense for money to move through those three stages incurring transfer charges. What do you mean by your own financial management? It was a direct transaction and you should have told your wife to send it to the Deputy Governor. I want to understand that explanation that you gave, Mr. Misati.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to go back. I had more than Kshs500,000 in my account. I was asked why I did not send money in full? This is why I mentioned that, I had--- my financial management, that if I move from here, the other bag is on the other side. The money was not sent directly from my wife to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa because she does not have the number of the Deputy Governor. This is why ---

Give the witness time to answer the question. Witness, you can continue answering.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is why---

Are you through with your answer? Are you done?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is why I instructed my wife to send the money to my son Dennis so that we could continue with the other processes.

Senator, you are in the queue. Do you have a follow-up question? Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need clarification so that we do not lose that trail of thought. The witness says that the wife could not send the money to the Deputy Governor because she did not have the number. I also recall that he said that Mr. Dennis did not have the number of the Deputy Governor. He had to send the number to Mr. Dennis. It was easy to send the number to Dennis but difficult to send it to the wife.

Sen. Methu, are you asking me or the witness?

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, every person has his ways of operation. This is the best way I operate.

Order, Senators. Order, Senators. Next is Sen. Cheptumo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have only one question. The witness went to visit the Deputy Governor with his sons. From the evidence, the sons sat far from where the Deputy Governor and the witness were conversing. I want the witness to confirm to this House that there was no discussion about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure a job for Dennis.

Witness, proceed to answer the question from Sen. Cheptumo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly and humbly come again.

Sen. Cheptumo, frame your question in a way that he will understand faster.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the question I want to ask the witness is that – yesterday, Dennis confirmed that he accompanied him to the Deputy Governor’s house. Today, the witness confirmed that he visited the Deputy Governor with his sons and that the sons were sitting from the Deputy Governor and himself. Witness, kindly confirm to this House that you did not discuss anything about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure your son, Dennis, employment in the county government. Is that clear now? I believe so.

Very clear. In our social discussions, including the refund of the Kshs500,000 and requests like any other person that my son had applied for the job of being a commercial manager, I just conversed with the Deputy Governor about the same issue.

Sen. Kathuri): Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is just a question about the visit of Mr. Misati and the sons to the Deputy Governor. Yesterday, I thought that the sons were kept away from the Deputy Governor and Mr. Misati, because the sons were not familiar with the Deputy Governor. However, when Mr. Misati was answering the question by Sen. Wambua, he said that “my sons are familiar to the Deputy Governor”. So, my question would be: Why were the sons kept away from the discussion between Mr. Misati and the Deputy Governor and yet they were familiar with him? What were they cooking? I thank you.

Sen. Kathuri): Senators, I can see a trend that some of the Senators are trying to jump the queue. We are just doing a follow-up of the question but you are now becoming more technical. However, you can answer that one. Answer that question, witness.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senator has said that yesterday, my son Dennis indicated that he has no familiarity with the Deputy Governor. Today, I have said that we are very familiar with the family of Dr. Monda. Therefore, by indicating that if we were familiar, why was it that I was seated far from my own sons as if there was something cooking? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to say, there are some things when you have got some discussions, you cannot include your sons and there was nothing that was cooking.

Sen. Kathuri): Okay. Proceed, Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My first question to the witness is, there is a lot of information that differs from the affidavit you gave under oath with the information that you are giving under oath today. So, my first question is, were you lying then or are you lying now? My second question is, in the evidence you gave about the transaction on 28th May, you say that the reason your wife sent the money to your son is so that Dennis can run to an Mpesa point and withdraw because the Deputy Governor requested for cash. Now, at the beginning of your testimony when you were being introduced, your counsel asked you to tell us what you do. You said that you own an Mpesa business. My second question is, why would you say that your son did not find any Mpesa branches open to withdraw the cash and that is why he sent it through the phone when you own your own M-pesa business which you could have withdrawn from there through your son. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the witness to agree with me that the Deputy Governor has higher financial capacity than he has for several years within their friendship. He has earned more than Mr. Joseph Misati. My question is: Are you giving testimony that may differ from your affidavit and what you are saying today because you might be weary of the well running dry in terms of the financial favours that you receive from the Deputy Governor, through your long- term friendship. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Witness, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to the first question, I never got the loan. The Senator has asked if I lied or if I am lying today. That is a no. Mr. Deputy Speaker and Senators, on the second question, she asked why I did not send the money directly to the Deputy Governor if I am operating the M-pesa. One, my M-pesa balance by that time had no such balance. Two, the Deputy Governor wanted money in cash. That is why I opted for the money to be sent to my son, Dennis. He was to go to the nearest shop to withdraw. Unfortunately, we found that the shops had closed.

Have you answered the three questions?

The third one went off my--- Can I have the third one, please?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the third question, I asked the witness to agree that the Deputy Governor has more financial capacity in terms of earnings and has had so, for a long time in their friendship. Therefore, is he concerned, that without his testimony today in trying to help the Deputy Governor remain in office,

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that the well will run dry in terms of financial favours that the Deputy Governor has afforded to the witness in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It will depend. It does not mean that when you are a Deputy Governor, you have a lot of money. Most people operate on loans. If there is any person I know that is struggling financially, then it is my friend, the Deputy Governor.

Next is Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Bw. Misati, Waswahili walisema, “ajuaye uchungu wa mwana ni mzazi.” Na waliimba wakasema, “mtoto sio nguo, utaomba mtu.” Niulize leo ndugu yangu, ni nini hicho kilichofanya mwanao, Dennis, ambaye ameishi miaka kumi na tatu Nairobi, auze biashara yake na akuletee zile fedha? Swali la pili, katika ile biashara yako ya M-pesa, katika zile transactions inaonekana ya kwamba ulituma zile elfu mia mbili hamsini na moja kutumia simu yako ya rununu. Ni nini ilifanya zile pesa zilizobakia, zile elfu mia mbili arobaini na tisa, lazima zipeanwe katika kitita cha pesa taslimu? Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Yes, Mr. Witness, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Nafikiri umeelewa Kiswahili vizuri. Haya, jibu.

I have gotten the message. In the question of--- Amesema ya

if I cannot translate that one, the person who knows the bitterness of the child nimzazi . I have indicated very clearly and stated earlier that my son has been away for more than 13 years. Even during that time, although there was rare communication, I used to send him some money for his upkeep, even if I do not have the documents to support that. By saying that he sold his own salon as indicated; he had no salon.

Witness, kindly answer the questions that you have been asked by the hon. Senator within a minute. Just answer the question directly without circumventing a lot of explanations. It is just a direct question.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If it is alleged that he sold his goods or his salon, I do not know where he took the money. Question number two---

Mr. Witness, that question was never asked by the Senator. Senator, can you repeat your question for record purposes.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me just use the English language. Mr. Misati, what is the reason why your son sold his salon businesses in Nairobi? I think he has answered and said, the son did not have any salon business. Let me take that answer.

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Mr. Misati, maybe you can answer the second question.

Rephrase the question, please.

My second question was; the first transaction that you sent to the Deputy Governor was Kshs251,000 in M-pesa. How come, you had to give the Deputy Governor Kshs249,000 that your son had to run around to look for money to give cash yet, the first batch was given on M-pesa? What was wrong in still sending the Kshs249,000 via M-pesa? You have said that politicians do not have money. Is it the case that your good friend was looking for money from you?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In our discussions with the Deputy Governor, I told him that I have some money in my account. I remitted that money Kshs70,000 three times plus Kshs41,000 which came up to Kshs251,000. In our discussion, the Deputy Governor told me that he needs some cash. That is why I instructed my wife to send it to Dennis so that we can look at a way of how we can encash that money from any nearest M-pesa.

Sen. Faki, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I refer the witness to page 65 of the DG’s bundle. I can see you transferred Kshs70,000, three times on the same 28th. You had a handsome balance in the account, why did you not transfer the whole Kshs500,000 that evening through your account? Secondly, you said this debt which you were paying to Dr. Monda you borrowed the money in 2022. Is that not so? When was the last time you visited Dr. Monda before you went to his house on 28th May, 2023?

Answer the two questions.

In reference to the first question on why I never sent the whole amount yet I had a balance of more than Kshs1 million, I indicated clearly that the maximum money that I wanted to withdraw from my account was Kshs251,000 for financial management reasons. The other money, which was in my wife’s M-pesa, is the one I wanted to send to my son to encash. I did not get the second question. The third one was when I last went to the Deputy Governor’s home. That is difficult to answer because I do not write the dates. However, I frequently visit him when invited or book appointment when he is at home.

Yes, Sen. Mundigi Alexander.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, swali langu ni kwa Bw. Misati. Unaonekana mtu aliyekomaa. Huenda ukawa mzee wa kijiji au mzee wa kanisa. Tunajua kuna mambo ya wazee, familia na marafiki. Kuna mambo ya mtoto wako na bibi yake. Vile vile, kuna mambo yako na bibi yako, na kuna mambo ya Deputy Governor na kazi yake. Wewe kama mzee unafaa kuunganisha watu ili mambo kama haya yasifike hapa. Mambo kama haya kule nyumbani kwa sababu ya urafiki na mambo mengine ya familia. Wewe kama mzee, ulichukua hatua gani kuzuia mambo kufika kwa County Government na hatimaye hapa? Bibilia husema, watu wawili hawawezi kutembea pamoja kama hawajakubaliana. Sasa inaonekana kazi ya Deputy Gavana na mambo ya familia yako hatarani.

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May I answer that question?

Let him, first, answer the question.

That is a good question. I indicated clearly that after paying school fees for my granddaughter, things started changing from 6th to 13th January. I think I paid the school fees on the Monday following 6th. After paying school fees, my son brought some shopping list amounting to Kshs13,000. I told him I could not raise Kshs13,000 then. I asked him to find out whether some of his brothers could assist him. I told him I will look for Kshs500 to buy essential items. Since books were needed, we could borrow some for my granddaughter, which I did on Monday. After doing that, I told the person who brought me the books to take to my son’s house. After some time, he came back and told me he was sorry because his cousin had bought all the books. I wondered what had happened and where he got the money. After he took his daughter to school, he stayed for two days only. From 6th up to the time he disappeared, he seemed like someone who had a lot of money. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know when you have money, you change your style of walking and eating. I was surprised with where this young man got money from, only to find that the boy or my son---

Witness, you have answered the question.

He disappeared and that is why I was unable - If he had come to me to tell what he was conspiring, we would have been on the same page.

Sen. Kinyua, what is your point of order?

Asante, Bw. Naibu wa Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Hili ni Bunge la kumbukumbu na tumekuwa na kikao kama hiki, tukijadili Hoja kama hii. Nakumbuka ya kwamba, maswali tunayopaswa kuuliza, ni ya ufafanuzi mahali ambapo hatujaelewa vizuri. Lakini, maswali yanayoulizwa, ni kama kwamba, sisi tayari tumekata kesi na mwelekeo ambao tunataka kuchukua. Bw. Naibu wa Spika, Spika mwenzako alisema vivyo hivyo ya kwamba, maswali tunayouliza yanapaswa yaelekezwe kwa ufafanuzi na si kuonekana kwamba tayari tumechukua msimamo na mwelekeo.

Seneta Kinyua, mimi nikiwa hapa kwa hii Kiti, sijasikia maswali kama hayo, unayosema yameulizwa.

Kwa hivyo, yale maswali hawa Majaji wanauliza, ni yale yatawasaidia kukata kauli, mwisho wa hii sehemu. Now, let us have Sen. Osotsi.

Sen. Munyi Mundigi, you are out of order. I will throw you out of this House. You are out of order. Please resume your seat.

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Sen. Osotsi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the witness about his affidavit that is on page 59 of the defence. It is stated that, “we asked each other of possible favours and this includes; favours like helping each other look out for jobs, educational opportunities and other social welfare openings, for especially, our children.” This reference of looking for jobs refers to which jobs? Can you tell the House which jobs you were looking for, for your children?

Yes, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like any other person who has taken his children to school and because of scarcity of employment, it is not a crime - although I am not a lawyer – to discuss social life like looking for jobs. Secondly, you have seen educational opportunities. I can recall when my children were in high school and others in universities, the Deputy Governor and his wife attended one of my fundraising for the education of my children. I have answered that one.

Sen. Cherarkey Samson.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have three questions. Mr. Misati, are you only friends with the Deputy Governor or you are also business partners? Number two, you have said that politicians are normally financially strapped or struggle, which I agree to some extent but some are well-oiled. Have you ever in any point like yours truly, funded any of the campaigns in the Deputy Governor Dr. Monda’s career or been part of his campaign? Three, in this M-pesa sending, were you sending money to Dennis Misati out of affection, love or were you assigning him responsibility? I want to know because you said you sent to him to show him love but, again, you were giving him responsibility to send the same money to the Deputy Governor. Finally, are you aware of allegations of a bribe of Kshs800,000? Is it Kshs800,000 or Kshs600,000? Can you differentiate the same or are you only aware of Kshs600,000? Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Witness, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the first question was if we are friends or have business partnership. Before I retired, I was serving agrovet shops. During that time, the Deputy Governor was also having a shop in Kisii. Therefore, he was supplying me with goods to sell, then I would refund. Indeed, we are friends but not partners. I do not know how much money is used for campaigns. If you can look at the much we have been transacting; it was very little. I have never funded the Deputy Governor’s campaign.

Last question?

Hon. Senator, it is because of the language. I can just combine it to say that I sent the money for the love of my son and responsibility. The third one on whether I am aware of any bribe, I have got the figure of Kshs600,000 and Kshs800,000. I only learned of these issues of bribery after the

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impeachment, that my son and I went to bribe the Deputy Governor but the opposite is the case. I learned of the Kshs800,000 after impeachment. For the Kshs600,000 the Senator has indicated, the figure is there, but it is the money the Deputy Governor gave me and I am yet to refund.

That is okay. Hon. Senators and both teams from the Deputy Governor and the County Assembly of Kisii, we are breaking for lunch at this hour, 1.00 p.m. We will resume at exactly 2:30 p.m.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00 p.m. time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until today, Thursday 14th of March, 2024, at 2:30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 1.00 p.m.

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