Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Order, Hon. Senators. Kindly those who are standing to take their seats. Sen. Tabitha, take your seat. We do have quorum now. Clerk, you may proceed to call the first Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to welcome the team from Makueni. This team was here from yesterday and has interacted extensively with our members of staff, the National Assembly Speaker and his House Business Committee (HBC). This morning, they have been in discussion with the Leadership of the Senate, hosted by the Senator for Garissa. They have learnt a lot and we intend to interact more with county assemblies because we are first from the county assemblies before we come to the Senate and our work is to team up with them to make sure there is effective oversight of the counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I welcome them and I hope they will enjoy the debate this afternoon and learn more.

Next Order, Clerk.

The Senate Majority Leader, Commissioner Kinyua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, 20th March, 2024.

The Social Health Insurance (Tribunal Procedure) Rules (Legal Notice No. 48 of 2024).

The Social Health Insurance Regulations (Legal Notice No. 49 of 2024). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sen. Mundigi, you are totally out of order. Can you go to the Bar and bow to the Chair to move to the other line?

Proceed Commissioner.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Homa Bay County Executive Car Loan and Mortgage (Members) Scheme Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Homa Bay County Assembly for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Homa Bay County Education Bursary Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Government of Homa Bay Homa Bay County Alcoholic Drinks Control Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Homa Bay County Emergency Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Government of Homa Bay- Receiver of Revenue for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Executive of Bomet for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Assembly of Bomet for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Bomet County Assembly Car Loan and Mortgage Scheme Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Government of Bomet– Receiver of Revenue for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Executive of Kiambu for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Assembly of Kiambu for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Government of Samburu–County Revenue Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Samburu County Assembly Staff Mortgage Scheme Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Samburu Water and Sanitation Company Limited for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Siaya County Assembly Car Loan and Mortgage Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Government of Siaya - Receiver of Revenue for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Assembly of Siaya for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Embu Municipality for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the Municipality of Kathwana for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Mandera Municipality for the year ended 30th June, 2023. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Elwak Municipalit – County Government of Mandera for the year ended 30th June, 2023. Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Kisii Municipality for the year ended 30th June, 2022.

The Chairperson Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources or any Member of the Committee can proceed to lay the Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, this day of 20th March, 2024- Report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on the County Governments (Additional Allocations) cash disbursement Schedule for Financial Year 2023/2024.

Next Order. Proceed, Chairperson Standing Committee on Finance and Budget.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion- THAT the Senate adopts the report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on the County Governments (Additional Allocations) Cash The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Disbursement Schedule for the Financial Year 2023/2024, laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 20th March, 2024. That pursuant to Section 17(7) of the Public Finance Management Act and Standing Order No.189(3), the Senate approves the County Governments (Additional Allocations) Cash Disbursement Schedule for the FY 2023/2024.

The Chairperson Select Committee on Delegated Legislation. Sen. Faki, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion- THAT, AWARE THAT the Sacco Societies (Non-Deposit Taking Levy) Order, 2023 Legal Notice No. 178 of 2023 was tabled in the Senate on 15th November, 2023 and referred to the Select Committee on Delegated Legislation for consideration; RECOGNIZING THAT this Order relates to imposition of a levy on non-deposit taking SACCO societies; COGNIZANT THAT Section 5 of the Statutory Instruments Act (Cap 2A, Laws of Kenya) requires that before a regulation-making authority makes a statutory instrument that has a direct or substantial indirect effect on business, the regulation making authority must make appropriate consultations with persons likely to be affected by the proposed instrument; REALIZING THAT the 28 sitting days timeline for consideration of the Regulations lapses on Thursday, 21st March, 2024, and yet the Committee has not been able to complete its work within the duration; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate resolves to extend the timeline for consideration of the Sacco Societies (Non-Deposit Taking Levy Order), 2023 (Legal Notice No. 178 of 2023) by a further twenty-one days pursuant to section 15(3) of the Statutory Instruments Act to enable the Committee consider the regulations and engage all stakeholders and make its determination on or before Thursday, 11th April, 2024.

Clerk, next Order.

Statements pursuant to Standing Order No.52(1). Proceed, Sen. Faki. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand pursuant to Standing Order No.52(1) to make a Statement on a matter of general topic of concern, namely, the escalating incidents of road accidents in the country which has led to an alarming number of deaths and injuries among our citizens. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the statistics are sobering. The 2023 economic survey reports rising road accident fatalities to 4,690 in 2023 from 4,579 in 2022, indicating a distressing increase of approximately 2.4 per cent. However, there is a silver lining on this. In its recent report, the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) notes a decrease in road deaths to 3,609 by October 2023, suggesting that our collective efforts to curb this menace are bearing fruit. Despite this progress, the annual loss of over 3,000 lives to road accidents, which caused our economy up to 3 to 5 per cent of its Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is unacceptable. Most of these fatalities are men, particularly those aged between 30 and 34, representing a significant drain on our country’s potential. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the pattern of these tragic accidents reveals that the majority occur during weekends and on holidays from 5 p.m. to 8 a.m. being particularly dangerous. Even the recent accident involving Kenyatta University (KU) students occurred during this time. Drunk driving and reckless behaviour on the roads are primary contributors to these accidents. Pedestrians, motorcyclists and cyclists bear the brunt of this crisis with the recent data from February 2024 showing that out of 659 road deaths, 259 were pedestrians. In the light of this, the Government has partnered with St. John’s Ambulance to establish trauma centres along key highways like the Mombasa-Malaba Highway. This is commendable. These centres, 19 of which are already in operation, are crucial in providing immediate care to accident victims, thereby reducing fatalities and serious injuries. The two which are very active are the one at Emali and the other one at Kinungi. However, the reach of this initiative must be extended. The highways that traverse our counties are yet to benefit fully from this noble effort. With St. John's Ambulance shouldering an annual expense of approximately Kshs400,000 per trauma centre, there is a compelling case for county governments to support and collaborate in this life-saving endeavour I, therefore, advocate that the Committee on Health liaises with the Council of Governors (CoG) to bolster this project. Our commitment to reducing road accidents and enhancing emergency response mechanisms will not only save lives, but also significantly alleviate the social and economic impacts of road accidents in our nation. In conclusion, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I urge all stakeholders to unite in addressing this urgent issue, ensuring that road safety measures we implement are robust and effective in preserving the lives and well-being of our people. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I thank you.

We are now on Statements pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1).

Next is the Statement by the Senator for Laikipia.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding the status of upgrading Nanyuki-Mutara-Rumuruti and Mutara-Gwaku roads in Laikipia County. In the Statement, the Committee should- (1) Provide an update on the progress of upgrading the Nanyuki-Mutara-Rumuruti Road and Mutara-Gwaku roads in Laikipia County to bitumen standards. (2) State the initially agreed upon project timelines, indicating the actual commencement and completion dates, and outline the measures put in place to ensure timely completion of the projects. (3) Detail strategies the Government has implemented to ensure that construction and maintenance of these roads meet high-quality standards, reducing the need for frequent repairs and inconveniences for the commuters.

Next is Sen. Mwaruma.

Next is Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the various fees introduced by the Human Resource Management Professional Examinations Board (HRMPEB). In the Statement, the Committee should- (1) Report on all fees charged by the HRMPEB, compared to fees charged by similarly placed examination and certification bodies, outlining any measures put in place by the State Department of Public Service to ensure any fees introduced and charged by the board are reasonable and legal. (2) Explain the basis for introduction of exorbitant and unreasonable fees, including administration fees for private candidates and curriculum support fees by the board, vide an internal memo dated 14th February, 2024. (3) Outline any steps taken by the State Department of Public Service to have the fees reviewed to reasonable and legal amounts. (4) Explain any steps taken by the State Department of Public Service to ensure that all students, past and present, are reimbursed for all exorbitant and unreasonable fees charged by the HRMPEB.

Sen. Wafula has two Statements.

The two Statements by Sen. Alexander Mundigi are deferred to tomorrow pursuant to his request.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Bw. Spika, nasimama kwa mujibu wa Kanuni za Kudumu Kipengele 53(1) kuomba Taarifa kutoka kwa Kamati ya Ardhi, Mazingira na Mali Asili kuhusu uharibifu na uchafuzi wa mazingira kutokana na uchimbaji wa madini ya chuma katika eneo la Jaribuni, Kauma, Kaunti ya Kilifi. Katika Taarifa hiyo, Kamati hiyo inafaa kuangazia yafuatayo- (1) Kuchunguza uharibifu wa uchafuzi wa mazingira na athari za afya zinazotokana na uchimbaji wa madini ya chuma katika eneo la Jaribuni, Kauma, unaotekelezwa na Kampuni ya China inayoitwa Wu Ying. (2) Ieleze hatua gani Wizara ya Madini na Uchumi Samawati na Mamlaka ya Kitaifa ya Usimamizi wa Mazingira (NEMA) zimechukua kuhakikisha usimamizi wa matumizi sahihi katika uchimbaji wa madini eneo hilo la Jaribuni, Kauma, kwa lengo la kuboresha maisha na mazingira ya wakazi wanaoishi sehemu hizo. (3) Kubainisha wazi hatua ambazo kampuni ya China inayoitwa Wu Ying, chini ya wajibu wake wa kijamii (Corporate Social Responsibility), imechukua katika jitihada za kupunguza athari mbaya zinazotokea katika uchimbaji wa madini ya chumba katika eneo hilo la Jaribuni. (4) Ipendekeze hatua zitakazochukuliwa kuzuia utegemeaji wa uchimbaji madini unaochangia pakubwa uharibifu wa mazingira na uchafuzi katika maeneo hayo.

Sen. Kathuri, your Statement has been reinstated. You may proceed to request the Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1), to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations on the abduction, torture and execution of the Meru-based blogger, Daniel Benard Muthiani, alias Sniper, who disappeared from Meru County on 2nd December 2023, and whose mutilated body was found dumped in River Mutonga in Tharaka Nithi County on 16th December, 2023. In the Statement, the Committee should- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

(1) Provide the status of the investigation into the abduction, torture, and execution of male blogger Daniel Benard Muthiani, alias sniper, stating any preliminary findings or insights that may have emerged. (2) Clarify the reasons behind the significant delay in concluding the investigation or the absence of public updates on his progress given the one widespread concern and the agency with which Bernard’s family seeks closure. (3) Outline the specific actions and measures the Government intends to implement to address and prevent the escalating incidents of harassment, intimidation and violence against journalists and political bloggers in Meru country.

Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to comment on the Statement on the road accidents. Recently, a university bus was involved in a road accident and several students lost their lives. This was blamed on the heavy rains and the speedy vehicles. However, we believe with good training of our drivers on our roads, we should be able to manage the road accidents in this country whereby several people have lost their lives. We would like also to look at what the police have been doing over the years - The cut-offs which have been made by the insurance companies as to the compensation of victims of such. Other than Kshs3 million whatever is above, then the person should cover and that has not been yielding from the courts. Therefore, Kenyans have lost lives, earnings and children who would have helped them in the future. There must be a strategy in which we should curb road accidents in the country. Even if the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) comes back, we need a better strategy. The worst of it is corruption on the roads, on the parts of people dealing with it and poor maintenance of vehicles. I agree with the Senator for Mombasa County that something has to be done urgently to make sure that no more lives are lost on the road. When you compare Kenya with other countries, we are much higher in terms of deaths, even in East Africa, and generally, road accidents are caused by carelessness. I support.

Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In quick succession, I just want to comment on three statements and allow me to start with the issue of road accidents. While we empathize and send our deepest condolences to the victims of the road accidents, those who have been maimed and those who are recuperating, we wish them well. The coming back of NTSA should be a priority. We need to be very careful. I urge drivers that let us be careful as we drive along these routes. I do not agree when people say an accident occurred because of the rains. While the Government is doing its best, we ask the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport to stop the public relations exercise. Be on site. Make sure the Michuki Rules are adhered to and they are enforced properly, so that we do not get this issue of just being reactive. The era of being reactive to road accidents, among others, should come to an end in this country. We want people to move to those sites and ensure they deal with this issue of road accidents. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I send to Kenyatta University (KU) parents and fraternity my condolences. Also, to the victims of the Silibwet tragedy and also to my former school; my alma mater, one of the best schools in this Republic, Kapsabet Boys High School which has produced both the second and the fifth President, and possibly the seventh president of the Republic of Kenya. The school bus drivers need them to be tested. The buses should also be inspected. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport should move from issuing social media directions and others. Secondly, on the issue of Mr. Sniper, I empathize with my brother, the Deputy Speaker, Sen. Kathuri. The brother - the relatives of the Governor of Meru have been arrested. Up to now, the body of Mr. Sniper or the family has not buried him. What are the police fearing to go for the big fish in arresting the perpetrators, the killers of Mr. Sniper? This country is a country that respects the freedom of expression; this is not a banana republic. This is not Jordan or Ukraine. Why is it that the police are fearing to arrest the real culprits who killed Mr. Sniper? We shall stand with the people of Meru; there shall be no mercy for the people who killed and maimed. As I talk, the wife of the late Sniper has been sleeping on a cold bed for almost two months. The children can no longer see the face of their father; the parents no longer have a son. This is a serious matter. This is terror related. In Tharaka Nithi County, a blogger was killed. The Blogger Association of Kenya is under threat. I challenge my brother, Sen. (Prof.) Kithure Kindiki, the Senate Majority Leader

, to go beyond arresting small fish. We need the financiers; we need to be told why Mr. Sniper was being called by people connected to the Governor and what was Mr. Sniper doing in the Governor's residence where he was found when he had been killed a few hours later. I hope the Committee of National Security will come strongly. That is what we want to see. I wish the Committee of the Whole – so that as Mr. Sniper is being put to rest--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, you remember in Meru, some of us who have been, Njuri Ncheke by association, we had to convince the people of Meru not to bring the body of the late Sniper to the gate of the Senate because they are trying to look for justice. Finally, on Commissioner Sen. Kinyua's Statement on the status of roads in Laikipia County, I sympathize and empathize with him because, unfortunately, the person in charge of roads, the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport is incompetent. I will not comment at that point but wish him well as he pursues. I submit.

Sen. Eddy, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the youth in this country are seriously under threat. I support this Statement by Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, Senator for Kisumu County on various fees that have been introduced by the HRMPEB. This weekend I spent time in Kuria, a place called Mabera with a number of young people drawn from different places in Kuria District, or rather Kuria sub counties. That would be the Kuria West and the Kuria East. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I had about 100 young people from Kuria. These young people are some of the brightest young people that I have seen from different diversities in terms of professions. We have Mr. Jemo Msanii who is a wonderful, educated young man who has dedicated his life to music and creative industries. We had people like Mr. Munico who actually used to be a student leader in Kuria and is still trying to survive and make life as a student leader. We had Bazuu who has been a young person in Masaba and has been able to engage in different Non- Governmental Organizations (NGOs). It just showed me how much young people in Kuria have been very passionate about trying to build their skills and get opportunities in post-graduate studies. However, these young people cannot get employment because the professional bodies are making it prohibitive for them to go through a simple examination such as what we are seeing with HRMPEB. Mr. Speaker, Sir, to add salt to injury after they have gone through this gruesome effort to undergo a professional undertaking after finishing college or university, they are told that as young people they cannot get employed because they must have experience. What is this experience that somebody gets in a classroom that is needed in the workplace? Today, I am sad for the youth of Kenya because these prohibitive and exploitative organizations that make it difficult for young people in this country to thrive ensure that their lives do not start properly. If I was required to have experience as a Senator in order to come to this House, then as a young person who had come from college, probably my well-meaning and industry would not have been noticed. If people like the “Queen of the North”, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda and Sen. Chimera were never given the opportunity to be in this House in order to give their thoughts and stand for the young people of this country, we would not have identified their talent. Mr. Speaker, Sir, to give perspective on how the HRMPEB is making it difficult for young people to have meaningful certification. They have introduced a curriculum support fee. They are charging Kshs1,200 per unit. If they charge this amount for the examination yet there are six of them then they are forcing a young man or woman who has just left college or other institutions to pay Kshs7,200 to register under this curriculum support. As if that is not enough. They have also gone ahead and introduced an examination fee. From the institutions we have attended, examination fee is paid as a lump sum. For this particular body they have introduced Kshs4,500 per unit. That means if a young person from college or tertiary institutions wants to be a member of this organization then they have to struggle to pay Kshs4,500 times six which is about Kshs27,000. Again, they have introduced an administration fee of Kshs2,500. An administration fee cannot be paid per unit. It is paid to an institution in full. If you introduce another Kshs2,500 per unit then it means that a young person has to struggle again to pay Kshs15,000. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you attend a tertiary institution and you have studied some technical skills in National Industrial Training Authority (NITA), you will pay Kshs100,000. The professional body will require you to pay Kshs49,500 - as a young person - to be a member. What are we doing to the young people in this country? I hope that the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Labour and Social Protection in this country will take this very seriously. In fact, this entire board should be sanctioned. This exploitation of young people makes it completely prohibitive. This is the HRMPEB professionals’ examination board. It is not fair to young people to go through higher institution of learning, colleges, tertiary education and when you come back you are being prohibited from joining these professional bodies because of the exorbitant fees. Once you have paid them all this money, they do not even give you after sale services. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if one is taking all this money ordinarily, then they should make sure that there are after sale services such as getting placement for jobs. As a young person, you have paid all this money, but you are also being told to and tarmac. If you get the job, you are then informed that you do not have experience. After going through NITA, Kenya School of Mass Communication and professional bodies where you have spent your entire savings, young men are left to die without a job. We wonder why crime rates have increased in Nairobi City County. In Mombasa County, for example, we are also seeing drugs among young people. It is because of this frustration. This is what I hope the Government of the day will see because the hustler nation where the Senate Majority Leader and my brother the Senator of Nandi County are, the rate of stress and depression related deaths is sky rocketing. It is 11 per cent in Eldoret, seven per cent in Kisumu county and about 15 per cent in places like Nairobi City Count. These young people do not have opportunities for jobs and they are being frustrated. I rest at that and make a very small comment on the issue of accidents that we have seen in this country that claimed the life of comrades from KU---

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under the Constitution on the right to human dignity on Article 28 and Article 27 - equality and freedom from discrimination. Is it in order for the Senator from Migori County to allege that where the Senate Leader of Majority leader, yours truly and I come from, have high stress levels and deaths of young people yet this is a national problem? Is it in order to discriminate and abuse the dignity of the people we represent in this House? We know where the Senator comes from is much worse. I can give the poverty index level which are worse---

Sen. Cherarkey, you can have your seat. Sen. Oketch Gicheru unless you have the data you may have to proceed to withdraw that statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the data of stress and depression levels in Eldoret and all other places in this country. I think that Sen. Cherarkey--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You may proceed to table the said document.

Sen. Cherarkey is---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru could you---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you give me time, I will get you the data because right now I am telling you what is in my head.

Order, hon. Senators! Sen. Oketch Gicheru proceed to table the data.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you give me time, I can prepare the data and bring it tomorrow or on Tuesday.

Very well. You will substantiate tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a context that was misrepresented by Sen. Cherarkey. He struggles from the fact that perhaps he did not study linguistics. I do not know how he became a lawyer. I said for example, Eldoret Kisumu and Nairobi. I could not mention all these towns---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, we have already ruled that you are going to substantiate tomorrow. Stop eating into your time. Proceed to conclude your statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I conclude on the accident that claimed the lives of 11 students from KU. These were struggling young people and comrades who should not die without seeing their dreams come true. I think these accidents should be declared a national emergency. These are reasons- In 2020 and 2021, the number of lives we lost during COVID-19 pandemic was 5,668. I hope Sen. Cherarkey can fact-check on that as well. If we had the pandemic and declared a national emergency for over two and a half years. Do you remember the 2007 elections when things were heated in this country we lost about 1,000 lives, yet we have people dying on our roads on an average of 4,628 every year? If we do not declare the road carnage we are seeing in this country, an emergency we are never going to deal with it. If it is not declared even the Ministry cannot deal with issues of road signs in this country that make it impossible for road users to know where there is a simple bump at night---

What is your point of order, Sen. Kinyua? Sen. Oketch Gicheru, take your seat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether Sen. Eddie is debating the Statement. I thought he is just supposed to make his comment.

Sen. Eddie, proceed to conclude and do not start a debate on the Statements.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Kinyua is my senior, and---

Just proceed, Sen. Eddie.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should send these Statements to these Ministries so that proper action can be taken. One of the proper actions the Ministries need to take is to tell us why we cannot declare this issue a serious national emergency and deal with the pertinent issues on our roads like the road signs to reduce accidents. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support these two Statements wholeheartedly because lives are being lost. The most affected people tend to be young people who should see their dreams come true in this country.

Hon. Senators, allow me to make this Communication before we proceed with the interventions. In the public gallery, we have 148 form four students and five teachers from Kiurani Boys High School in Tharaka Nithi County, who are undertaking a one-day education visit in the Senate. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and my behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was hoping the Deputy Speaker does not interrupt so that if I welcome both schools you will allow me to make my comments on the Statements. I abide by your guidance. I take this opportunity on behalf of the Senate to welcome the Students from Kenyatta University law campus who are here on an educational tour to visit the Senate part of the Parliament of the Republic of Kenya. All we do here is talk because that is what parliaments do. People share ideas, critique the Government and exchange ideas. This is what we come to do in this House. As students of law, I am sure you will get an opportunity to see how law-making works. It is unfortunate that you have come on an hour when we are yet to get to the real business of lawmaking through the Second Reading and Third Reading of Bills so that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

you appreciate and see the kind of rigorous debate that happens during the consideration of amendments. Nonetheless, I welcome them to the institution of the Senate. I know they have been given a good study tour by our competent staff. I know they will learn more as they engage with us. I would be remiss if having gotten the opportunity I failed to appreciate the form four boys from Kiurani Boys High School. I wish them well in their studies. I was a Form 4 student in 2004; exactly 20 years ago and here we are today. Your journey to greatness is on the right path. I forgot something important. We have students from KU and their institution is in mourning because of the unfortunate incident that happened with the accident involving students. What has happened to many institutions is unfortunate. Commiserations to KU as a fraternity. Pole to the family of the bereaved. We wish comfort and God’s grace. So that those students' lives are not lost in vain, I want to challenge the Roads, Transportation, and Housing committee. This is something I was to say this morning when the Cabinet Secretary was there, but I did not get an opportunity. I do not believe there is only a design fault on the roads and that is why many school buses are rolling in the same. There is a commercial interest in this. I agree with those who are telling us that many of these school buses and public passenger service vehicles we are seeing as buses are actually lorries that have been converted to buses for carrying people. They do not have the mechanical makeup of a vehicle for transporting human beings. We want to challenge the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport to come clean on these issues. If there has been anybody at KEBS or the Ministry of Transport that has remodified the specifications of what passes the test of a vehicle that is supposed to carry human life, then they should be brought to book. If there is lack of sufficiency of laws, then this is the House for making those decisions so that we do not continue to lose our students. I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I join my colleague, the Senate Majority Leader, to convey my condolences to the students from KU who lost their lives through a tragic road accident. The Senate is with them at this time. We are praying for their families as they rest the students who died. The other issue I want to put across is that the students from Kiurani Secondary School - Meru and Tharaka Nithi are two counties with the same people. When I am in this House, I should be in a position to welcome them to the Senate on behalf of the Tharaka Nithi County Senator, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire who is on other official duties of the Senate. I welcome them and advise them that they have a bright future if they take their education seriously. We were students, some from poor backgrounds and in small schools. Their future is in their own hands. They should take their academic work seriously. They have got good teachers and supportive parents so that tomorrow they will be Sen. Cherarkey, Sen. Kathuri, Sen. Cheruiyot - I can see Sen. Olekina is looking at me - and Sen. Olekinas’ of this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

They are welcome back to this Senate again and again. Other students from other schools are most welcome to the Senate.

Sen. Kinyua, proceed.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Nasimama kuunga mkono Kauli iliyoletwa na Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache, Sen. Madzayo. Kampuni zinapaswa ziwe nyingi. Tukiwa na kampuni nyingi nchini tutaimarisha uchumi wetu. Kampuni hizi ambazo zinakuja zisiwe ni chanzo cha kuharibu mazingira na kuangamiza wananchi wa Kenya. Nimemsikiza kiongozi wa Walio Wachache akisema ya kwamba kuna kampuni ya Uchina ambayo kazi yake ni kuchimba madini. Baada ya kuchimba madini, inaharibu mazingira yetu. Hivi juzi tu tulikuwa na kongamano kubwa katika Jamhuri yetu ya Kenya na tukasema ya kwamba sisi tuko katika mstari wa mbele kusema tunapaswa kulinda mazingira yetu. Lakini ni kinaya wakati sisi tunaposema hayo maneno na unapata ndugu zetu kutoka Kilifi wanaendelea kusononeka na kupata taabu kwa sababu ya hizi kampuni ambazo hazisumbuki au kuangalia watu ambao wanaishi katika sehemu zile. Bw. Spika, nilikuwa nikifuatilia hili jambo kwa sababu niliona mambo haya yakiangaziwa katika vyombo vyetu vya habari. Nilipoangalia, niliona ya kwamba mahali hawa wananchi wanaishi, wale waliyo karibu na ile kampuni, hata baada ya wao kuathiriwa na yale mambo ambayo yanatendeka pale; watu wamepata kifua kikuu na sehemu ile hata haina zahanati. Watu wanawachwa kuendelea kusononeka na kupata taabu. Ndio tunaunga mkono kuwa na kampuni, lakini hizi kampuni zisiwe ndizo chanzo za kuangamiza wananchi wetu. Kwa hivyo, hizi kampuni ama idara ambazo zinapaswa kuhusika kuangalia hayo mambo kama hii idara ya National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA), inatupa kiwewe kwa sababu ikiwa inapaswa kushugulikia mambo haya, inapatia hawa watu leseni namna gani, ilihali hawa watu wanaendelea kuharibu mazingira yetu? Ndio tunataka uchumi lakini tusije tukaharibu mazingira yetu tukiwa tunazingatia mambo ya uchumi. Naunga mkono taarifa iliyoletwa na kiongozi wa Walio Wachache na ninamwambia ashikilie papo hapo ndio Wananchi kutoka Kilifi wasipate shida. Kwa sababu, watu wa Kilifi wakiwa na shida, hata wananchi wa Laikipia wanapata shida kwa sababu ni marafiki. Sisi ni ndugu wa kufa kuzikana. Asante.

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a pleasure that you have given me an opportunity to contribute to these serious issues. In the morning, the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Roads and Transport in this country was in this House. However, I did not have an opportunity to contribute. He answered the question as to why we are having accidents, but I felt like his answer was not satisfactory and I did not have an opportunity to ask him any question. What is the international best practice right now? Go to two or three countries within the region, the Government and, indeed, the NTSA, do not have to institute roadblocks. All they need to do is to use current technology. Every single vehicle in this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

country has a Tax Invoice Management System (TIMS) number. That number actually can be linked up to a satellite. When that vehicle is moving, the satellite will display what the distance, speed and condition of that vehicle. Why are we putting roadblocks on the highway? This is simply because you know we are encouraging corruption. We know that people are receiving money and this is not something that has started recently. This has been there for the last 30 years. Why are we not doing what Rwanda is doing? All of us have travelled to Dubai. We see what happens in Dubai. Nobody crosses the lights or over speeds. The vehicles are in good condition and everybody follows the law. So, what is difficult with us following the law? Nothing. It is just implementation. In addition, I listened to my Deputy Speaker talk about the young man Snipper who was killed in Meru. People were arrested and a young man was killed. We do not know whether the trial is proceeding or not. Nothing is happening and the story is somehow dying. Why? This is because of the political disagreements that we are having. Now, we are cascading our noise and personal disagreements and grievances to the point where we want bloggers killed. We look around it and do nothing about it. I want to thank my brother for saying that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to the issue that my leader, Hon. Stewart Madzayo has raised, if you go to Kakamega, Migori and every place in this country, you will realise that mining is taking place. People’s lives are in danger. The environment is being depleted, we have no by- laws and the county governments are not involved. We only come to this House, talk about it and that is it. I want to plead with my colleagues in this House, can we please be proactive and make sure we take it upon our responsibility and do that which must be done? People are dying on our highways because of excessive taxes. I do not know whether my colleagues in this House know that from Kisii County if you are travelling by bus to Nairobi, it takes about four and a half hours. The driver gets to Nairobi and back again to Kisii in another four hours and again he leaves Kisii back to Nairobi. In 16 to 17 hours, it is one driver who is driving a truck. Why do we not have Government regulations? When a driver is driving the bus, he can use his biometric registration so that he only drives for eight hours. People are killing people because of fatigue then we are busy expecting miracles to happen. There are no miracles that are happening. We must regulate and make sure that we talk to our people so that we can follow the law. The judges can make sure that when somebody has broken the law, they are punished and punished to make sure that there is deterrence. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me those few minutes.

Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me start with the issue of our students at KU. My family and I send our condolences to the comrades of KU on the loss of the students. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

It is a concern that these accidents have been happening very frequently. A big concern as colleagues have mentioned, is in terms of the quality and standards of the roads and buses that these students are using. Nonetheless, I want to bring a different concern. From where I sit as a parent of a student, as you know travelling from Nairobi to Mombasa is about six to seven hours and one single driver is assigned to this particular bus. You will find that the driver has woken up very early in the morning at about 4. 00 a.m., 3.00 a.m. or even 2. 00 a.m. to prepare for this journey because the law says by 6.00 p.m all school buses should be back in the learning institutions. Additionally, this is what the Ministry of Education advises. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it would be okay if the learning institutions would look into the issues of the drivers and be able to assign two drivers per every long trip of more than four or six hours. We must make sure the driver who start the trip is not the same driver who drives back to the institution because it is tiresome. It is very fatiguing to have the same person driving this vehicle for long hours. We have lost this future as a country. It is sad, but this issue can be looked into. Allow me to talk about the issue of the charges or fees that are being introduced by the HRMPB. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know very well, most of these students who undertake this Board examination, are trying to elevate and become members of this institution. I heard Sen. Oketch talk about the figures amounting to over Kshs50,000 in terms of administration cost--- Where do we then leave our Human Resource (HR) institutions when it comes to employment? Mr. Speaker, Sir, last week, we were here undertaking an impeachment because of a corruption case where a managing director was being bribed to facilitate employment of a youth. As you know, the HRs are the ones who undertake employment. If these are the costs that they are going to incur, then what do you expect when people are in the job market? We will have some who are rogue, corrupt and will try to see how they will compensate their fees. This will result to asking for some of the things that we heard last week through the impeachment process of how money was exchanging hands in exchange and purchase of a job opportunity. Human resource is a very sensitive and important department in each and every institution. So, it is very important that the Committee that has been assigned this get to the bottom of it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I finish, on the last Statement by the Senator for Meru County, I also request your office to speed up on the reports from these Committees, so that we can get immediate answers for some of these issues that have been raised, either through Statement or Motion. As I conclude on the issue of one gentleman, Daniel Bernard, alias Sniper, this is a young man. The Kenya Kwanza Government has put strategies to create different opportunities for the young people. One of those opportunities is content creation. We have many young people who have embarked on making their revenue or earnings on content creation. That is why during the Finance Bill, we looked at the taxation levels, and this was lowered, so that we can encourage them to make a living. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

It is sad if through our political issues, different young people coming up with their content creation to earn a living can be subjected to death. Sadly, further to that, you will realise that justice has not been served.

The body of one Sniper is still lying in the morgue. As a woman with a husband, how do you feel, sleep, eat, drink or socialize when your spouse is lying in the morgue simply because you await justice? Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the wife of Sniper, it is time that you stamp your stamp of urgency on this Statement from Meru County on the Committee that will be assigned to undertake this issue. This House needs a quick feedback because children are crying and a woman is hurt somewhere and this issue is still pending. We are still waiting as Kenyans. If we do not stop this, then what happens to the others that we are still encouraging out there? With those many and few remarks, I support.

Sen. Madzayo, proceed.

Asante Bw. Spika. Naunga mkono Taarifa iliyoletwa na ndugu yangu, Seneta wa Kaunti ya Meru, kuhusu kushikwa kwa Sniper. Sio kushikwa peke yake, bali kutolewa ndani ya nyumba na watu ambao hawajui, waliojitambulisha kwa familia na yeye mwenyewe, halafu wakamueka kwa gari na kupotea naye. Vitendo kama hivi vimetendeka sana na vimefanywa katika mikono ya polisi. Watu wanakuja kwa nyumba, wakishajitambulisha kwamba wao ni polisi, wanatoa mpaka vitambulisho na wanabeba mtu wanaenda naye. Hatimaye, tunaona huyo mtu anapatikana ametupwa mahali fulani baada ya siku fulani akiwa amekufa. Tabia kama hizi, hivi sasa zimeanza kuzidi kwa sababu si Meru tu ambapo kitendo kama hiki kimetokea kwa waandishi wa habari wa mitandaoni ama bloggers .

wengi katika nchi hii wamejipata katika hizi njia panda. Kwa bahati mbaya, na pole sana kwa watu wa Meru, shemeji yangu, Deputy Speaker, pole sana kwa kumpoteza

wenu. Hiyo imetendeka kila mahali katika nchi. Hata upande wa Pwani, kule Mombasa, kuna blogger anayejulikana sana, anaitwa Yusuf. Polisi walienda nyumbani kwake na kumchujua. Watu walijitambulisha kwa familia yake kama polisi. Hatimaye, baada ya siku fulani, alipatikana katika hali ambayo si sawasawa. Alikuwa amepigwa risasi na ameuawa. Bw. Spika, ikiwa hawa watu wamekuja ndani ya nyumba na kujitambulisha kama polisi, itabidi sasa tuanze kukataa na wapendwa wetu. Tusiwaruhusu waende nao kwa sababu tunajua wakienda nao, mwishowe tutapata miili ya wapendwa wetu katika vichaka; wapatikane ama wasipatikane. Tabia kama hizi zimekuwa zikitendeka sasa baada ya mda mfupi. Njia inayotakikana kufanyika ni kwamba polisi wakome kupoteza Wakenya. Tunajua kuna sheria. Wakishika watu ni lazima wapelekwe kortini, waende washtakiwe, halafu mahakama ichukue mkondo wake. Akipatikana na hatia, hatua iweze kuchukuliwa. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Tunaona kuna mwengine alipatikana na hatia, kama yule aliyefungwa juzi akaambiwa ataenda kunyongwa. Lakini, hayo ni mambo baada ya korti kumsikiliza yule mtu. Kwa hiyo, hali hii ya ulaghai ama polisi kuchukua sheria katika mikono yao, ipingwe kwa hali ya juu sana. Sisi kama Maseneta hapa hatutakubali Wakenya kupoteza maisha yao kupitia kwa mikono ya polisi ambao wamechukua hatua ya kuangamiza Wakenya kwa kuwapiga risasi ama kuwatoa kwa nyumba zao bila sheria inayoambatana, na hatimaye kuwapata wamekufa. Asante.

Sen. Chute, proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me take this opportunity, first and foremost, to send my condolences to the 11 students from Kenyatta University, who died in a road accident. According to National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA), the number of people who died in 2023 are 4,324 and the injuries were 18,561. These accidents are mainly due to our own issues. First is fatigue. We also have speeding, drunk driving, running red lights, distracted driving and weather conditions. All these are avoidable. NTSA also estimates about 3,000 deaths every year. This is also costing the country anywhere between 3 per cent to 5 per cent of GDP. Eighty-three per cent of the fatalities are mainly men. These are individuals aged between 30 to 34. This is also contributing to us losing very young people in this country. Among the roads that we have in Kenya, the roads that are mostly prone to accidents include the Northern Bypass, Kangundo Road, Mombasa Road, Outer Ring Road and Thika Super Highway. These are roads where cars over speed and, therefore, causing deaths of many passengers. Can the accidents be avoided? Yes, they can. The main cause is drunk driving. We can control our drivers, just like the Cabinet Secretary was saying. He said they will introduce some laws to deal with those drivers, specifically, drunk and fatigued drivers. This is what the Senator for Kisii County talked about. Fatigue is a major issue. Buses from Moyale to Nairobi take about 10 hours. The same buses go back after two hours with the same drivers. That is how those fatigued drivers cause accidents.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to wear our safety belts and avoid overloading in matatus . The Cabinet Secretary told us today that two weeks ago, there was a matatu that was carrying 24 passengers. That is 10 more than the normal required number of 14 passengers. Overcrowding is also an issue. Pedestrians also pass through zebra-crossings without taking care of oncoming cars. If we avoid drunk driving, that will also help a lot. Finally, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you can remember, we had the Michuki laws, and at that time, things were better than today. I congratulate and thank the Cabinet The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Secretary who was here this morning for thinking of amending Michuki laws. If those laws are amended, the number of deaths will go down and that is what must happen. I thank you.

Hon. Senators, there are a few other Senators who would like to comment. I guide that we do two minutes each, so that all can get a chance. Some of you tried in the morning, but did not get a chance. Let us have Sen. Beth Syengo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to what my colleagues have said. I will start by supporting your statement on abduction and killing of Daniel Muthiani, alias Snipper, in Meru. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a mother of sons, it breaks my heart to see our young men, who are create employment for themselves by creating content and blogging, being abducted and killed, yet no immediate action is taken. They say justice delayed, is justice denied. Why has it taken so long for this matter to be concluded and for the perpetrators to be brought to book? Something similar happened elsewhere and the matter was concluded. Why is it that when it comes to Meru, it takes too long? It really concerns me to see that Meru is always on the spot for wrong things. We had the Governor of Meru County twice in this House for wrong reasons. Now, we are discussing about Meru because of justice delayed to Snipper. I urge the Ministry for Interior and National Administration and our friend, Hon. (Prof.) Kindiki, who is a neighbour to Meru County, to make sure that action is taken immediately. The perpetrators should be brought to book, so that justice is served to the family. They include the wife, parents, relatives and friends of Daniel Muthiani alias Sniper. As a House, if we allow this to continue, we do not know who is next. We do not know the other young man who is going to be taken, killed and things swept under the carpet. We need quick action to bring this issue to conclusion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to also comment on the issue of accidents on our roads. That is to do with a Statement that was brought by the Senator for Mombasa County. It is of great concern that there is a lot of disorder on our roads, especially the menace brought by boda boda operators. I would call them rogue boda boda operators. The accidents that happen could mainly be because of drunk drivers, fatigued drivers, drivers who bought their driving licenses and drivers who go to shoddy driving schools that are run in this country. We need some order. I call upon the NTSA to move with speed as well to call drivers in this country to order by scrutinizing their licenses. Even if drivers require refresher courses, that should be done to ensure that we curb several accidents. Other causes of accidents could be as a result of state of the roads or our discipline on the roads. It is important for action to be taken in this country, to ensure that we save lives of people, like what happened to the 11 students of Kenyatta University (KU). I pass my condolences to the bereaved families. I thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sen. Shakila Abdalla, you may have the Floor.

Asante, Bw. Naibu wa Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia kidogo kuhusu Taarifa kuhusu ajali za barabarani. Ajali za barabarani zinaweza kupunguzwa ikiwa sharia itafuatwa kikamilifu. Sharia ya kwanza ambayo haifuatwi kikamilifu ni ufungaji wa mikanda ya usalama ndani ya magari. Watu hawapendi kufunga mikanda ya usalama ilhali ni kitendo ambacho kinaweza kuokoa maisha. Ni muhimu sana---

Just a minute, Sen. Shakila. What is your point of order Sen. Nyutu?

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, tafadhali nikubalie nitumie Kiswahili. Ningependa kujua ikiwa Sen. Shakila anazungumzia sharia ama sheria. Sharia ni sheria ya Kiisilamu. Je, anazungumzia sharia ama sheria?

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, sharia na sheria hazina tofauti. Ni jinsi tu unavyopenda kutamka. Ukitaka kusema sharia ama sheria, inamaanisha kitu kimoja. Ukitaka kujua zaidi, nione nyuma ya tent nikufunze mengi. Bw. Naibu wa Spika, katika nchi kama Rwanda, boda boda hubeba mtu mmoja na wote huvaa helmet . Hapa Kenya, boda boda inaweza kubeba watu wanne au watano na wakianguka, wote wanafariki kwa sababu hawafuati sheria za kuvaa helmet zinazozuia mtu kuumia endapo atapata ajali. Ni muhimu law enforcement itekelezwe ili kupunguza ajali za barabarani. Utakuta polisi wa trafiki wanachukua hongo barabarani. Akikuta scratch kwa gari lako, anakuuliza mbona limekwaruzwa na kwa hivyo unafaa kutoa kitu kidogo. Hawaelewi hata kama gari lina shida. Ni njia gani itakayochukuliwa na Serikali kuhakikihsa kwamba magari yanayoendeshwa barabarani yako sawa na salama? Utakuta magari mabovu yanaendeshwa barabarani. Hayo ndio yanayochangia ajali. Utakuta gari halina breki---

Sen. Shakila Abdala, sijui---

Nina mengi, Bw. Naibu wa Spika. Ningependa kuchangia Taarifa zingine pia, manake mambo ya mazingira vile vile yanatuathiri.

Ako na haki pia. Sijui ni jambo gani angependa kujua zaidi kutoka kwako.

Ni Kiswahili tu, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Standing Orders do not exist in futility or in vain. I refer to Standing Order No.9. I have seen my sister, Sen. Shakila, repeatedly say ‘ nyuma ya tent’ and ‘ yuko safe .’ In our Standing Orders, you can insist to use either Kiswahili, like how Sen. Olekina did today in the morning or use English. Is it in order to interchangeably use those words, yet our Standing Orders state that if you start with English, you use English and if you start in Kiswahili, you proceed with Kiswahili? Is it in order to proceed that way?

Sen. Shakila, endelea umalize.

Sen. Kathuri): Asante sana, lakini naomba pia nikueleza ya kwamba NEMA ni Halmashauri ya Utunzi wa Mazingira ya Kenya.

Sen. Joe Nyutu.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Senator for Nairobi wants to raise a point of order against me even before I have started. I take this opportunity to first pass my condolences and empathy to the entire Kenyatta University fraternity for the loss of lives in that bad accident. It is very sad that this happened and it is time to ask ourselves whether the drivers of these institutional buses should be the same drivers making long distance trips that take students to those long-distance trips. This is because they may be people who are not used to driving long distances. Even as we sympathize with the situation, we need to think about this. We also need to think about the state of our roads because, sometimes, some accidents can be avoided if we have better state of our roads. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on the Statement you raised in your capacity as the Senator for Meru. The death or the murder of Sniper caught the attention of the whole country because of the way this young man was killed and his body found. If my memory serves me well, the body had been disfigured using some acid, and this is sad. The police must act. We pride in having the best investigative police service and I believe and hope that the police have not been compromised because by now, the killers, the perpetrators of this injustice should have been brought to book. The police must redeem their image in this matter because it was a serious and sad thing that should not have happened. We are politicians. Every morning, young men and women will critique us. They will condemn us and peddle half-truths and falsehoods against us, every morning on social media. However, we must learn to live - and I am not trying to presume that Sniper was killed by a politician - but having been a blogger, it is likely that this death was caused by a politician. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must learn that when we offer ourselves to serve the public, we then expose ourselves and the people can say anything that they want against us. We must develop thick skins that anyone can say anything and the last thing any The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

person should think about is eliminating a young man or woman, simply because they criticized them on social media. This is something that everyone who offers themselves for public service must learn. In your Statement, you also talked about harassment and intimidation against a journalist and anyone who brings information to the public. I support that Statement because everybody must be given their right to report whatever they want to report, and if indeed, anyone has a problem, they should go to court and seek legal redress. I say this because some of us have been intimidated. Some of us may have said things that are not very kind to some people who are senior, maybe in the Government. When we speak our minds, we must also be protected as politicians. This is because if I rise and say that I stand up against intimidation, I stand up against open hatred, disrespect by whoever it is in authority, in this land or even out of this land, I should be protected. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying that some of us also feel threatened because of the utterances that we have made against some people in powerful offices.

That is why we must say, without mincing words, that people must be protected; that the law must protect us and we have the freedom of expression! If you are mighty, if you are powerful and I stand up against you, you can do whatever you want, but you must not harm me. If you want to isolate me and do whatever you do, the Government must make sure that we are safe and we should not be intimidated, harassed or anything. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I say that because there are Senators here who are asking me why I am not in my county today, because everyone thought I should be in the county. However, I stand here to say that I have my rights as a Kenyan and I should not be intimidated by anybody! I will also comment on the Statement that was raised by Sen. Madzayo, the Senate Minority Leader, about environmental degradation in his county. We have quarries in Murang’a’ County and sometimes, the people who mine these building stones leave big uncovered depressions. When the rains come, they fill in these big depressions and sometimes, when children play around there or when one or two people take what the late Whispers used to call “Jeremiah Waters”, they sometimes fall into these depressions and lose their lives. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must all in one accord agree and advise that anyone doing mining must manage these sites, especially after they leave, in order for us to continue assuring our people of their safety. We must come against pollution. When mining activities are done by these people, these miners and companies must see to it that pollution is prevented. Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) must also be looked into. Let them build schools, hospitals, health centres et cetera, so that the people that live in these areas can benefit from these activities. They must benefit economically and financially because that is the right thing to happen. I support.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, I wish you stopped at the time you were at the high note, then conclude at that time. Proceed, Sen. Faki. I beg you to reduce on time to at least two minutes because I have four remaining. You have exhausted on Statements.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I will be very brief. Ningependa kuchangia Taarifa ambayo umeileta hapa kama Seneta wa Meru kuhusu kutekwa nyara na hatimaye kuuwawa kwa mwanablogu Snipper. Ni jambo la kusikitisha kwamba hivi sasa ambapo tunayo Serikali ya Kenya Kwanza iliyo mpya, watu bado wanauliwa kiholela. Hili jambo la kuuwa watu kiholela limekuwa likitokea na serikali zilizopita, ila sasa donda hili sugu halijaweza kutibiwa na wananchi wa Kenya kuishi kwa amani kama Katiba inavyosema. Majuzi pia kuna mtu mmoja mjini Mombasa aliyeitwa Yusuf Swaleh Ahmed Kandereni au Candy Rain aliyekuwa ni mfanyibiashara Mombasa. Alitekwa nyara na polisi nyumbani kwake, akapotea na baada ya siku nane maiti yake ikapatikana sehemu inayoitwa Kuruwitu katika Kaunti ya Kilifi. Habari zilizoko ni kwamba alitekwa nyara na polisi kisha kuuliwa kwa tuhuma kwamba alikuwa mmoja wa wale wanaouza mihadarati. Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ni wazi kwamba nchi yetu ya Kenya ina mahakama ambazo zina uwezo wa kufanya kesi yoyote katika nchi. Je, ni sawa kwamba polisi hadi sasa hawajeweza kutoa taarifa yoyote kuhusiana na tuhuma hizo kwamba walihusika katika mauaji ya Kandereni au Candy Rain? Ni wazi kuwa kunyamaza kwa polisi ni kuwa wanajua ni kitu gani walifanya. Hii ni kuendelea kwa mauaji ya kiholela ambayo Serikali hii ilikuwa imesema litakuwa ni jambo la kusahau.

Asante sana. Proceed, Sen. Murgor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to comment on the accidents on the roads. As my colleagues have shared, I also send my condolences to the families and friends of the students who died. It is something that somebody has to decide on, to stop this menace once and for all. When the late hon. Michuki decided to go singularly against it as a Minister then, people thought he was crazy because he went very firm about it, against all the menace that we see every day. Some of the accidents are caused by mechanical problems on the vehicles not serviced and people not being careful of what they drive. Secondly, for institutions such as schools, it is time that it is made mandatory to have two drivers when schools are making long trips; one to take students to where they go and another one to drive them back. This way, they will go and be back safely. With long trips, somebody will definitely be tired, sleepy and so on. I know schools are careful about finances. There are other ways they misuse finances, but to use it on safety is the best thing they would ever have in schools. On the environment, I think the law should be affirmed and enforced, so that everybody is conscious about the environment. Simple things such as dropping papers The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

and such things on the road or around compounds should be something that parents, schools and everyone else should be conscious about. That way, there will be consciousness, so that you do not see such kind of things and just leave them behind you. I support.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Asante Bw. Naibu wa Spika kwa kunipa nafasi ili niweze kuchangia Kauli ambayo imeletwa na Seneta kutoka Kilifi, inayohusu uchimbuaji wa madini katika eneo la Jaribuni Kilifi County. Uchimbaji wa madini ni jambo ambalo linahitaji kuzingatiwa kwa umakini sana. Wakenya huwa hatuzingatii mazingira. Lile tunalozingatia sana ni la uwekezaji. Inatubidi sasa tuweze kuangalia jambo linalotukera sana. Sisi kama wawakilishi wa Wakenya tunapigiwa simu kuulizwa tutume pesa ili iweze kupeleka watu hospitalini. Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ukisafiri hivi sasa kutoka Nairobi uelekee Kaunti ya Kilifi, eneo la Jaribuni, utakuta kwamba hali ya afya ya Wakenya wanaoishi kule imezoroteka vibaya sana. Ningependa kumshawishi Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache kuwa angeleta hoja hapa ili kazi inaloendelea huko iiweze kusimama. Huyo mwekezaji wa hii kampuni inayoitwa China Wu Yi Company ingelazimika awache uchimbaji huo wa madini hadi masuala ya kijamii yashughulikiwe. Ni aibu sana kwamba jambo ambalo sisi kama Wakenya tunatilia maanani ni kuwa matajiri sana. Mwekezani huyo amekuja huko kuchimbua madini, ametoa chuma, akauza na kupata pesa. Ila amewacha wananchi wale wanaishi katika eneo hilo ya Jaribuni mahospitalini. Wakienda hospitali hawapati dawa. Hii ni nchi gani tunatengeneza? Hili ni jambo linalonikera sana kwa sababu hata ukienda kule Narok uteremke mahali kunaitwa Siabei, kuna boma ya watoto ambao hawana familia. Chini yake kidogo kuna shimo kubwa lililoachwa na wale waekezaji ambao pia walikuwa wanachimbua madini, mchanga na mawe ya kutengeneza mabarabara. Je, ni siku gani sisi kama wawakilishi wa Kenya tutakasirika tuweze kuwaweka Wakenya wetu mbele na maneno ya wawekezaji yawe ni kitu cha baadaye? Itakuwa ni haki kweli tukiwa na waekezaji wengi lakini hatuna Wakenya ambao wanaweza kuishi na kufaidika kutokana na mambo yale waekezaji wanaleta? Mhe. Madzayo ameuliza jambo ambalo pia mimi ningependa kuuliza, kuhusu majukumu ya Mashirika ya Kijamii au Social Corporate Responsibility (CSR). Mara nyingi hata sisi hapa tukizungumza, tunajiuliza haya majukumu ya kijamii ni gani? Hii kampuni sijui inaitwa China Wu Yi imeweza kusema hili ndilo jukumu letu na tutahakikisha ya kwamba wananchi wa hapa wamepata matibabu wakigonjeka? Uchimbaji wa madini hasa chuma ama iron ore inaleta magonjwa mabaya sana. Hata ile pofu yake pamoja na ile inabaki baada kuosha ile chuma ikianza kutiririka chini, inaleta magonjwa kama vile saratani na wananchi wa Kilifi wanaendelea kuangamia. Hili ni jambo sasa kama Seneti ya Kenya ni lazima tujiulize kweli ni haki wananchi wa Kilifi waendelee kuangamia? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Ukienda kule utakuta wale wananchi wanaoishi huko hata saa zingine kupata chakula cha mchana ni shida. Kama hawawezi kupata chakula cha mchana, je, wakienda hospitali, nani atawalipia?

Nasimama kwa Hoja ya Ujumbe, Bw. Naibu Spika

Sen. Olekina, ungependa kujulishwa na Sen. Faki?

Ndiyo, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Sen. Olekina amesema kuwa ile vumbi ya madini inaleta athari mbalimbali kwa jamii. Moja ya hizi athari ni upungufu wa nguvu za kiume kwa watu wanaokaa sehemu zile. Hata ukiangalia, kuna hukumu iliyotolewa dhidi ya Clinker. Hukumu iliyotolewa kwa wakazi wa eneo la Uhuru Mombasa ni kwamba Clinker ilikuwa inaathiri uwezo wao wa kufanya tendo la ndoa na bibi zao. Kwa hivyo, madini yanayo chimbwa kule, baadhi ya athari zake ni hizo. Asante.

Sasa wewe sehemu yako ya kuishi ni hapo ama ni mbali kidogo?

Bw. Naibu Spika, mimi naishi sehemu za Nyali; katikati ya Nyali. Athari hazijanifikia.

Sen. Olekina, endelea umalize.

Ningependa kumshukuru Sen. Faki ambaye ametilia maanani yale mambo ninayozungumzia hapa kuhusu afya ya Wakenya. Je, itakuwa ni ungwana ikiwa ukienda kule Jaribuni Kilifi County, ukisimama na kuhesabu wanaume ni kama 20 peke yake, lakini mtoto ni mmoja. Vile amesema, hii vumbi inaharibu mbegu ya mwanaume. Hicho ni kitu kinanikera sana. Ndivyo ninasema, ningemshawishi mwenzangu Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache alete Hoja hapa katika Bunge hili ili tuweze kuchunguza. Jambo hili sio jambo la kuchezewa. Ukiona watoto wanaokuwa vipofu, wagonjwa, na wazazi wao hawana pesa ya kuwapeleka hospitali, tunakuwa kweli fair? How do you say ‘ fair ’ in Kiswahili? Asante.

Sen. Kisang, what is your experience in Elgeyo-Marakwet?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are some light moments this afternoon. So, I want to comment on the road carnages. If you go to a country like Tanzania, our neighbour, people are more disciplined. If the speed limit is 50 kilometers per hour, you will see people observing the set speed limit. If you must stop at the Zebra crossing, people stop. So, I do not know what is happening with our culture. When hon. Michuki was the Cabinet Secretary then and came up with a raft of measures which we all obeyed, speed governors and safety belts were installed in vehicles. These are things the Cabinet Secretary for Transport needs to go back and ensure that we go back to those good old days of hon. Michuki because accidents dropped drastically then. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

It is unfortunate that we lost 11 students the other day from my former Kenyatta University. We also lost a student and a driver from Kapsabet Boys. We lost other people in Silibwet. We need to reflect as a country. The National Transport and Safety Authority needs to sit down, come up with policies or revise the same policies and those who flout the rules, let them face the law. I was in Arusha recently and I could see a boda boda rider having a helmet and carrying one passenger. However, here in Kenya, you will see six or seven youths in one

and none of them including the rider are wearing helmets. We need to change as a country, so that we do not lose young lives. On behalf of the people of Elgeiyo-Marakwet County, I want to send my sincere condolences to all those who are bereaved during this difficult time. I have an interest in Kilifi and the Senator for Kilifi has just walked out. I wanted to find out from him; I hope he has not been affected by what Sen. Faki has said. I hope he is still safe and doing his normal duties in the evening because I am told the clinker is affecting manhood. Maybe that is the reason in recent years, it looks like the population for Kilifi has stagnated. So, I agree with what Sen. Olekina said that we need to bring up an inquiry into the matter. If people are presented with an opportunity to do excavation or to mine including murram, gemstone and clinker, they are supposed to restore the environment the way they found it, including planting trees. Otherwise, if these people do not do that, that means we should deny them licences to do mining. Recently, we were in your place. There was a Petition in this house on nuclear, because they also want to set up a nuclear power plant in Kilifi, and people are also complaining. So, Senator, we empathize with you and hope you are okay and still performing your duties. Thank you..

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, very quickly on three Statements. The first one is on the mining that is happening in Kilifi. My reading of Article 71 of the Constitution is that parliamentary ratification is a requirement for all these agreements that involve a grant of a right or concession by or on behalf of any person, including the national Government, to another person for the exploitation of any natural resource of Kenya. Therefore, one of the problems we have faced as representatives of the people is that sometimes these agreements are never brought to the attention of Members of Parliament, so that we can put in place a mechanism to address some of the concerns that have been raised by the Senator for Kilifi. Number two, on the Statement on accidents. Just the other day here in Nairobi, we had a very peculiar case of a Matatu overturning on Haile Selassie Avenue and people were asking how it is possible for a matatu to roll on Haile Selassie Avenue. Since all of you use Haile Selassie Avenue, there is something on Haile Selassie Avenue that never used to be there. A few months ago, the Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) for no reason whatsoever, decided to put bumps at the exit of the roundabout on Haile Selassie Avenue. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we had a similar case on the Southern Bypass, where they just woke up one day and put road bumps and the drivers, because they were not acclimatized--- If you know the bump that I am speaking about in Haile Selassie Avenue, it is not your normal-sized bump. Some of the decisions that are being taken by the road authorities may be contributing to the accidents that we are seeing in the country that could be preventable. On that note, allow me also to pass my condolences to the students of Kenyatta University following that accident. Finally, on this freedom of speech, I am beginning to like this House. Ever since last week, the vote that was taken involving the matter from Kisii County, I am starting to like this House. I have argued repeatedly that there is something called an objective truth. People in opposition know that the sun rises from the east, and that should also be true for the people who support the Government and who are elected from the Government coalition. So, I like it when I hear Sen. Joe Nyutu speaking as passionately as he has this afternoon about freedom of speech. Let me just say that, today, together with the Senator for Vihiga County, I attended the funeral service of Dr. Chakava, who is a foremost publisher, and one of the people who founded the East African Publishers. In his eulogy, they told us that this was a person who dared to publish things in that era, where a publication of things against the Government could attract the death penalty. Dr. Chakava was publishing books by people like Ngugi Wa Thiong'o, at a time when we had sedition on our books; at a time when subversion was still a crime in this country. We were told in his story that one day he was followed by goons, presumably sent by the Government. They beat him up very badly and cut off one of his fingers. This is something that was happening way back in the 1970s and 1980s when we were under one-party rule. We will never allow ourselves to go back to that particular period in time. I have loved hearing the Senator for Kirinyaga County saying that people who put themselves in public spaces must grow a thick skin. That is exactly what I was trying to say yesterday, even in this House. People who have had experience in politics of the type of the President, the President does not need to be protected from hecklers. So, when I see the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration, instead of looking for the people who killed Mr. Sniper in Meru County, he is going to look for the people who heckled the President in Bomet County--- My reading and understanding of Article 33 of the Constitution puts only three limitations on the freedom of speech, and I can read them out here for the record:

“The right to freedom of expression does not extend to

a) propaganda for war;

(b) incitement to violence;

(c) hate speech; or,

(d) advocacy of hatred that— (i) constitutes ethnic incitement, vilification of others or incitement to cause harm; or The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

(ii) is based on any ground of discrimination specified or contemplated in Article 27 (4).’’ That is the only limitation on freedom of speech. You are allowed to boo public officials; you are allowed to insult us. Personally, immediately I got myself into a public space, I grew a thick skin. I do not even block people who insult me on social media. I want to keep reading those insults every day, so that I know that for as long as I am pissing off the people who are against the things that I say, I am on the right track. We cannot be in a country where we are eliminating people for their political views because they have criticised you, because they do not like what you are saying, or because they have opposing views. Therefore, I urge this House, and together with the Senator of Meru County, I want to pledge my support--- We want a speedy resolution to the murder of this young man because this is something that should not be happening in the kind of times that we live in today in this country.

Thank you very much, The Senator for Nairobi City County. Last but not least, Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have already contributed to this matter and I am waiting on the next.

I do not see Sen. Betty Montet on my screen. Okay. Can you give her the microphone? Sen. Betty Montet, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. Let me quickly add my voice to the three Statements, which have been brought to this honourable House, and let me start with your statement. It is very unfortunate that, to date, the body of the late Sniper has not been laid to rest. You can imagine the agony that the family has been going through since that young man was murdered? To date, he has not been put to rest. It means his family cannot settle for having somebody in the mortuary. I would urge the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration, coming from a neighbouring county, to take this matter seriously. This is a matter we have had the Deputy President speak on, and I would kindly ask you, as a leader from the same community, please, let us stop politicising this issue. The young man needs to be put to rest. I urge the people of Meru County as we look for justice--- Yes, I know justice delayed is justice denied. Let us please allow the body of the late Sniper to be put to rest, so that people can start mourning. When the body is in the mortuary, I believe the family is not even able to mourn, let alone move forward very quickly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Again, let me comment about the road carnage as I pass my condolences to the family and the fraternity of Kenyatta University, Kapsabet Boys and so many other accidents that we have seen lately. All these problems we have is because we do not follow the law in this country. Very good laws have been made; some have been put into action, others are on the shelves, and knowing the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transportation, in this country, Hon. Murkomen, our former Senator, he is an able man. I trust that he can do it if he just comes out strongly and becomes our second savior, our second hon. Michuki. Hon. Murkomen is an able Cabinet Secretary; he is a hardworking man; we have seen him. We know him from this House; we used to hear him before some of us came to this House. I know he is an able Cabinet Secretary. If only he can put his foot down, this Menace is going to be eliminated in this country. On the environment, I will say that people are not following the law. When these big investors come to this country, I believe they are given all the conditions and the laws of this nation. If followed properly and people stop following the handouts, the law will be followed clearly, and all this mess we are seeing, all this environmental menace we are seeing in this country, will stop. This will move the correct way if Kenyans were to follow the law and especially, the people who are there to enforce the law. So, if everybody did their jobs and did them well, I am sure we would not have all these problems. I support the Statements and thank you for giving me a chance.

Thank you. That is the end of that session. Let us move to the Next Order.

Hon. Senators, Sen. Eddy Oketch had a balance of 12 minutes. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if you are ready, you proceed and consume your time. If you are not, then you can give it to any other Senator who would like to contribute. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was born ready. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Just to perhaps rekindle our minds about yesterday's conversation, we were talking about this particular Motion that was moved by the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget that I sit in, on how we can deal with debt in the country. I did allude to some conversations yesterday to do with fiscal consolidation, and I want to dedicate my conversations around how, as a country, we can start thinking about serious fiscal consolidation; what are these major drivers that are making us not come out of this debt menace in the country. Just perhaps to redeem some of the areas that I focused on yesterday, the current fiscal deficit that we are looking at in this year’s Budget Policy Statement (BPS) that has been put forward is Kshs703.9 billion. That is the money that the Government is looking at in terms of trying to close that fiscal deficit that it has. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has been proposed in this Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy (MTDMS), 55 per cent of that is going to be borrowed externally and 45 per cent is supposed to be borrowed domestically. I have always held the view that domestic borrowing in whichever form, as long as it goes to the edges of 25 per cent and above, brings the idea of crowding out; where the Government will be borrowing more at an advantage of businesses that are locally in the country than how the businesses will be able to borrow in a commercial setting, where commercial banks will find it more lucrative for them to make quicker money and give more stable loans to the Government than they would ordinarily to businesses. I can attest to this in the sense that even the lower part of the pyramid that this current Government has wanted to focus on in the narrative of the Hustler nation--- If you remember, last year, the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) gave a report on the Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) landscape that we have in this country. The challenge that we had entire last year, and I think we will still face this year, is that in MSMEs, for about Kshs10 that they borrow, they end up defaulting on Kshs6. They are defaulting because the capacity that they have in terms of running a business is not there. Therefore, banks will be dissuaded even more when they realise that these MSMEs cannot borrow more predictably. Therefore, they just become unbankable. As a country, this is something that we must start thinking about. How do we ensure that even before we get to the domestic and external borrowing conversations, we can shrink the fiscal deficit in this country? I talked very passionately about some of these areas that are enticing capital for Government to spend in. I have held the very strong view that we are borrowing money, and it does not go to development. For instance, right now, we are ranging between 65 and 68 per cent of our national Budget going on recurrent budgets. We are just financing a budget that is not on development. If we continue borrowing, as a country, in order to eat, buy Panadol for workforce and to just consume, then we shall end up in trouble. I have been sitting in the Standing Committee of Public Investment and Special Funds (CPIC). In the Committee, we have observed a serious problem with regards to pending bills and consumption that mirror the national levels. In fact, counties are facing a situation where if they do not learn from the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

conversation that we are having in this House on debt management strategy; they are going to reach a point where the pending bills are going to be more in terms of nominal value than the equitable shares that they are getting. We are going to wake up one day and find our counties in a lot of contract pressure from suppliers that need their money paid. The suppliers in the counties come on the basis of a contract. If there is one thing that the Constitution of Kenya and our laws protect is contracts to investors, suppliers and anybody who ends up getting into a dealing with any form of Government, whether national Government or county government. From where we are seeing ourselves heading as a country, the counties must start learning from this MTDS conversation in the Senate and Parliament in general. Counties are facing a serious challenge in terms of their own fiscal consolidation. Just to give you a perspective, currently, counties are spending on domestic travel, subsistence and hospitality. These areas are gobbling a lot of money from counties to the extent that the expenditure in some of these areas could be used to pay some of the pending bills. We know that in the national Government, as we try to raise money, the ordinary revenue from different Eurobonds and grants from external sources, the first charge has always been nationally paying for this debt. In fact, I remember last year, there were some weeks that the national Government was paying a whooping Kshs100 billion per week in debt. Our counties are going to start facing a situation where they pay the first charge of their money to suppliers in terms of pending bills, and rightfully so. If the counties and the national Government do not pay our suppliers, the common people in this country who are working day and night to supply goods and services to our Government, we shall be killing this economy. This is because without guaranteeing payment to these suppliers, the young people in this country that are working to supply goods and services to Government, then there is no enterprising economy that can go on. Therefore, this conversation should be larger. The idea of fiscal consolidation should be a larger conversation that we are having both at the county and national level. Otherwise, that is what ends up pressuring the national Government to keep adding taxes that sometimes do not make sense in whichever way you think about it. Even the pressure about the Affordable Housing Bill that we had here, was all the effort of the Government to see how to solve the housing equation for areas that they did not have their own money to put up the housing. Therefore, you end up forcing the common mwananchi to put their money into this fund because you cannot raise it by yourself. It ends up being another additional tax burden that they already have. If we do not solve this issue of Government expenditure, we will still have a problem in this debt management strategy. Lastly, I invite the House to start keeping the National Treasury to account with the data points that it has forwarded to this House with regard to shrinking that debt to GDP ratio. There is desire that by 2029, they are hoping to reduce it all the way to 55 per cent. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

They made a commitment of this formula, moving us from a numerical value last year to this ratio value. However, since last year, we have not had an engagement, not at the Committee nor at the House level. The Ministry has not given us quarterly data on how they are going about it, the adjustments on the GDP index projections that we are seeing or the kind of debts that we are taking in terms of concessionary debts, which we have this particular month, so that we ensure we are on track. By the time we were closing December last year, the debt to GDP ratio stood at a higher level than where we found it at 70 per cent because there is no proper monitoring by this House. Therefore, I want to invite the House to pay a lot of attention to the National Treasury figures that have been given in this MTDS. It is a proper oversight and update to this House, so that we can tell the country that the number of indices in terms of debt that we are taking from different places can be dealt with. Alongside that, we cannot sit pretty on the idea of the €1.5 billion eurobond that was floated the other day because it did not come as a factor in the debt management strategy. It came as a factor in the business cycle in the United States of America (USA), where the US Government showed an interest in reducing the interest rates on the Dollar. That pushed the markets to adjust. One of the observations of the Committee was that this act brought confidence to investors to put some dollars into our economy and bolster tourism. This is not a sustainable indication of stability in our foreign exchange and the value of our Kenya Shilling. As a House, we must monitor this in the next few months and ensure that it does not put us in danger, where we keep on borrowing because we are borrowing against the Dollar. Should any bump happen, especially after the US elections---

Thank you. Next is Sen. Maanzo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while contributing to this important report---

You mean 20 minutes? My contribution will take less than that. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is important to note that there is no country in the world without debt. Many families and individuals in the world have debts. The biggest issue is how to manage the debt. We have a good example of the US, a rich country, but heavily indebted. Israel did not have debts for a long time. If they had, they were managed. Business people in Israel do not have debts. However, every African country is heavily in debt. There is nothing wrong with borrowing, so long as the money goes to what it was borrowed for. Unfortunately, we have been borrowing money, but since we do not have proper structures, the country loses money through corruption. Corruption barons are courageous of stealing from public coffers borrowed money, which taxpayers are struggling to pay. They are brave enough to go through an The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

investigation. Even if they are taken to court, they are sure they will have their way and get away with it. That is where the challenge is. We need to slay the dragon of corruption in Kenya if we are to get anywhere with all the debts we have. When it comes to production, Kenya is an agricultural country. I saw a report on fake fertilizer. They said that the fertilizer being sold to farmers is filled with stones. That means farmers have lost money because of buying fake fertilizer. That means the produce will be poor, yet this is a country that is supposed to produce food. What is the aftermath? We will end up borrowing money to buy food to feed our people and the circle continues due to corruption. If you compare the cost of some of our mega projects here with those ones in Rwanda or Ethiopia, you will find that ours are exaggerated. Even if it is road construction, it amounts to official corruption. There is collusion from the contractor to the engineers. For a road that should be done using less money, like in countries such as Australia and other parts of the world, we pay 10 times for ours. If we begin dealing with corruption, we will save a lot. People collude when we have pending bills and delayed projects like the Thwake Dam. When you delay a project, it becomes more expensive. You end up paying double than what the project would have cost. Kenya loses and we have a huge debt that will take a lifetime to pay. There are many examples of countries losing because of corruption. Any country that has succeeded has fought corruption completely. That includes Singapore to all the Asian tigers such as China. They even have death sentence for corrupt people. There is total recovery of all stolen property. In our case, that is not the way. Most people are billionaires because they have stolen from the public. Until we strengthen the fight against corruption, it will be difficult to pay these debts, and the country will continue to be broken. Even if people were taxed 100 per cent and everything, we worked for went into taxes, we will still not pay our debts, so long as there is corruption. We will always have problems and face issues. Corruption results in political instability, which chases away our tourists. The other way we earn money is through tourism. Corruption also leads to increased pending bills in the counties. When we delay monies to the counties, we delay payments to suppliers, who go to court to get huge court awards with interest rates up to when they will be executed. There is the Government Proceedings Act, but sometimes, you cannot auction the Government. By the time these people are paid, money will have been lost due to mismanagement. There are a lot of pending bills in the counties. There are people who have worked for the counties and have done projects that you can see cost them money. Even if you value and assess them, you will find they are owed money. However, their payments are delayed. They go to court and are frustrated. They get court judgments, but no one is paid. Most of them end up dying, leaving their children poor and their companies collapsing, which does not help the country. It reduces payment of taxes and cycle continues. As a country, we must resolve to fight corruption. Morals and good values should be taught to young children in schools and higher learning institutions, so that we can change the configuration of most Kenyans, who believe that to become wealthy, you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

must take shortcuts and steal from the public. If we can manage corruption, we will manage our financial affairs and debts. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I look forward to a day when there will be zero corruption and Kenya will be a working nation, with everyone motivated to work. I hope we will have good farming practices, so that we can pay all our debts and become a developed nation. I thank you.

Sen. Kisang, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Report by the Committee on Finance and Budget. As a country, we are in a crisis, especially because of the debt. If you read the Report, they stated that from December, 2022 to the current debt, the nominal ratio to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is 70 per cent from 67 per cent because of the depreciation of the Kenya Shilling. That is a challenge to the economy, which makes it difficult for the country. As a country, we need to manage our debt. The public debt is over Kshs11 trillion. The National Treasury has indicated that they will reduce the nominal ratio from 70 per cent to 65 per cent in the next three to five years. The Committee has indicated that by the end of April this year, the National Treasury will provide us with the policy and way forward, so that we can monitor it closely. If you check, you will see that we have both local and external debts. One of the reasons our businesses are struggling is because the Government is borrowing internally. When the Government borrow internally, it means that our businesses do not have access to loans and at the same time, the banks are sure that the Government will not default. This means that they deny our businesses opportunity to borrow. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir the interest rates for the last six to eight months have been going up. When the borrowing rates goes up, it also becomes expensive for the business community to thrive and to create more opportunities for our youth.

As a country, we need to be disciplined. I remember around 1982 to 1993 up to 2002, the BRICS, African Union (AU) and United States denied the late former President Daniel arap Moi loans and donor funds. However, the country was doing well. People were able to go to school and put food on the table. We need to bite the bullet. Perhaps, we need to check because if the other day we had the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) in this House, and there is a deficit of over Kshs700 billion, maybe we need to save for a year or two. Can we live within our means without doing any development? Let us finish what we are currently doing, stop the borrowing and we will not die. We should not borrow to buy medicines or pay salaries. If we are unable to give salary increments because we are not raising enough resources, then so be it. We can stay for a year or two without salary increment and we should be able to explain to the country. On own source revenue, there are very many leakages. If Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) and the National Treasury put measures in place, I believe we should even raise close to Kshs3 billion, basically by ensuring there are no leakages. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

There is a lot of corruption. If we are willing- it must start from the top to bottom, we should ensure that there are no leakages. If you as the father of the house, Senator or Governor, you see that there are things that you are doing that are not right, basically, it will go down stream. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to check these things and ensure there is governance and not giving unrealistic own source revenue where they create pending bills. This is one of the reasons why we are suffering at the counties. A county will say they will raise Kshs1 billion a billion and they raise Kshs3 million yet they will have budgeted for the Kshs1 billion. What happens to Kshs700 million works that have been committed? Therefore, it is important that we have a conversation as a country so that we come out of this mess that we are in. In countries like Singapore and Malaysia, corruption is not tolerated. Therefore, we need to be serious. Perhaps, we need to be dictators. I agree that in a country like China, if you are found to be corrupt, they say they will hang you. Perhaps, we need to do that for a year or two, so that we get back to our discipline. The reason why we were commenting the other time about road carnage is also because of the indiscipline. Instead of people going to driving schools properly and getting a license, we like shortcuts. You buy driving licenses or go and train on a bodaboda in a field within 30 minutes, then you are carrying five passengers, how will we grow if we are not adhering to some basic values as a country? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Report. I believe by the end of April, the National Treasury will give us the policies and measures on how they will bring down the remuneration from 70 per cent to 55 per cent; the internationally acceptable percentage. Otherwise, technically we are in the red. Thank you. I support.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Tobiko.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Report of the Committee on Finance and Budget on the debt management strategy. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this cannot be overstated in this country today. If Kenya manages its international debts and the local debts, then this country will move in strides and uphold the dignity of its people. If there is anything that has really put pressure on Kenyans, it is the international debts that we have from all over the world; lenders, for instance, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the World Bank, Eurobonds and all that. Nonetheless, I believe and I see the Kenya Kwanza Government led by the President H.E William Ruto has started on the right footing, that we mop up our own resources and finances to finance our programmes, so that we reduce international borrowing. Kenyans may feel a pinch for now but I believe it will pay off on time. What also ails this country besides these international debts is how these resources are spent after being borrowed. There are too much financial leakages in terms of corruption. If we address the issue of corruption both at the national and county levels, then we will see the value of the resources that we are borrowing. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as of now, a lot need to be done and priorities needs to be put right. However, beyond just the borrowing, there are Kenyans and regions that have mega projects because of the money that is borrowed. The tragedy is, even if these resources are channelled towards specific regions, the rest of Kenya must pay. This is what I have always been saying, that we need equity and fair distribution of these resources, so that every Kenyan feels the value of what has been borrowed and also the pain of paying. Otherwise, there are those who will feel greater pain because they have not seen the projects that these resources have been used to do. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Expressway has become very useful in Nairobi. I am sure everybody feels the value of that project and feels it came to save us from the traffic jam. I just wish the Expressway extended beyond Mlolongo and maybe a little further towards Kitengela. There is traffic jam in Kitengela that is always a gridlock of around two to three hours every evening and morning and yet Kitengela accommodates many people who are working in Nairobi. If only the Expressway can extend a little further towards Isinya, it will open up the area and many Nairobians will go and enjoy the fresh air of Kitengela and its environs. You will have your homes there and we are very hospitable people as we do accommodate all Kenyans. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know you know there are many Meru people in Kitengela. It is the face of Kenya. However, without the necessary infrastructure ---

Sen. Tobiko, just a minute. Sen. Cherarkey, it is not in order to stand between the Speaker and the Member contributing, because you are gesturing at me when my eyes are on Sen. Tobiko.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know Sen. Cherarkey has a lot of energy. He needs to be reined in a little so that he is orderly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I was saying is that the environs of Kajiado, Rongai, Kiserian, Ngong and Kitengela are the open areas towards Nairobi. There is no room in Kiambu and Thika and yet these Nairobians want to move from the flats of Nairobi. They want to move from the congested estates in Nairobi such as Buruburu and the others. People want to own homes, compounds and a bit of a place to keep even chicken and whatever. That room can only be found in Kajiado. It should go to everybody in this country and every policymaker, the Cabinet Secretary and the Principal Secretary that Kajiado County needs infrastructure. In Kajiado County, we need roads, electricity and access to clean water. Fresh water from Ndakaini Dam should extend to Kitengela and the environs. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just look beyond the Wilson Airport, you will see very beautiful lands. Go towards the Kiserian-Pipeline Road, you will see very beautiful lands. I know each one of you would want to own a home there, but we do not have roads and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

the necessary infrastructure. That is why you are all congested in Nairobi. There is room that could open up for you. Kajiado is part of the Metropolitan. This metropolitan, I have always said, looks like a pie. The pie is Kiambu, Murang’a, Machakos, Kajiado and Nairobi. However, in that pie, the rest of the part of the pie has been developed, and there is a piece of the pie that has been left. I do not know whether these Ministries that make the necessary policies to direct resources, they think the resources taken towards Kajiado will be to take care of cows or human beings. I keep looking at the social media pages in Kajiado County and it shocks me. Those who have moved from Nairobi to Kajiado are always asking for tarmac roads and they think it is the leadership of Kajiado that is denying them tarmac roads. It is not. We just need the resources distributed equitably so that every county can enjoy the necessary facilities. Today, Kitengela is a big town, but it does not have sewer systems. It is a sad story. Even Ngong and Rongai towns do not have sewer systems. We need to develop all areas equitably so that even when we are paying for these debts, we pay while we know where they have been utilized instead of telling us every day that we are paying for Mau Mau Roads in Kiambu. I do not know Mau Mau towards where. We have paid for these roads since the year 1963, and we are still putting tarmac roads in every village in central Kenya, in Mt. Kenya, but we never have roads towards the rest of our counties. This is where it pains. This is where you find some Kenyans feeling like they are not part of this country and they have been neglected. Maybe because of our numbers, we may never be able to raise a president or a deputy president or those positions that matter, that distribute the resources and so, we keep lagging behind. Mr. Deputy Speaker, we just want to be included as part of this country. We want roads. I do not know whether you live in Kitengela, because most of you do live there. I look at people saying, “Oh, we need Old Namanga Road tarmacked. Oh, you know, the former Member of Parliament (MP) has not brought tarmac.” I wish I could, but I was not going to use my father's cows to do the tarmacking. It is, definitely, the national resources to do the tarmacking. For 10 years, I have been asking for Old Namanga Road to be tarmacked. I have been asking for the Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) to come to Kitengela. It is now that they have come after my noise in 10 years. It hurts, when those who are moving from Buru Buru, the middle-class estates, come out there and demand that we have tarmac, yet they have left tarmac in Nairobi. Can we be given resources and the necessary infrastructure to accommodate your brethren and the rest of Kenya? If then our community does not deserve, then we have your brothers there. They are in Kitengela. The Luos, Sen. Oketch Gicheru, are there in Kitengela. We have all Kenyans there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we just want to ask for equity. We need these resources. It pains me every day to live in Nairobi when my home is a stone-throw away, but I cannot live there because we have no roads. I am going to welcome you for some mbuzi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

in my home. You will feel it, because it is so near. I can see the lights from Nairobi, but I have no road to go home. Also, when we talk about our counties, I do not know whether it is corruption that was devolved to our counties, but it is a pathetic state. I agree with Sen. Oketch Gicheru about the pending bills in counties. It is just going to be a huge crisis very soon, if we do not manage the pending bills. I wish this House, because it oversights counties, can reign over the counties about the pending bills and the various governors about these pending bills so that when a governor finishes his term, he should also complete payments of all the pending bills of that term. The new governor can have a chance to start on a clean slate, so that your development is seen and maybe the development of the other person, can now comparatively be looked at. However, when you inherit pending bills, you may spend a whole time trying to sort them out. We need as a country to think on the direction we are channeling our resources. I support.

Thank you, Sen. Tobiko. You have spoken so passionately on Kajiado roads. The way you have begged me, I wish I am the one who gives out the roads. I could have commanded all the roads to be brought there from tomorrow. I hope, Sen. Cherarkey, you have noted that date in Kajiado. Do you remember? So, thank you very much indeed, Sen. Tobiko. Sen. Mandago proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to contribute to this Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy. My concern goes to two areas - on the issue of pending bills, both in the national Government and county government level. As we strive to manage debt, I think it would be prudent to ensure we also do not continue accumulating debts, particularly for county governments, for services rendered and goods delivered. As a nation that is struggling to create employment, we kill the same enterprises that have grown over time. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I propose to this House that we make recommendations to the Controller of Budget to ensure that before the subsequent budgets in the new financial year are approved, there must be clear provision of funds for clearing pending bills that have been audited and found to be genuine, both in national and county governments. Our growth in Gross Domestic Product (GDP) cannot be achieved, if we continue piling pending bills and killing the enterprises that are supposed to grow the economy. Therefore, I strongly want to recommend and propose to this House that before the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

budget for Financial Year 2024/2025 is approved and funds released, there should be provisions for payments of all pending bills. The Senate Majority Leader has suggested, and all Senators have followed up to support that intervention request that the Controller of Budget (COB) shares the reports of counties so that, as the Senate, we are able to check on the spending of the resources. It has been found that a number of counties are making requisitions for payments of pending bills, but the same funds are being diverted to other causes. That is indicating that there could be a possibility of over-budgeting on own source revenue. Therefore, the reality of the resources available vis-à-vis what has been expended cannot be met. Two, as a country, in order to manage this debt, I welcome the Government’s move to work with the private sector, both nationally and internationally under the Public Private Partnership (PPP) to develop infrastructure that will require massive resources. Roads are very important for the growth of the economy of this country. If we want to open up all parts of this country to trade, business and growth in terms of industry, the role of roads cannot be underestimated. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I therefore support the Ministry’s and national Government’s decision to engage private sector, both nationally and internationally, in development of tolled highways in the country. If we take Thika Road, for example, when it was being built - I support the Ministry that that Thika Road must be tolled. For it to realize what it was meant for, Thika Road must be expanded all the way to Mandera and to the Kenya-Ethiopia border for the sake of the goods that we are importing from Ethiopia. For your information, the beans we eat in Nairobi and probably, 60 per cent of beans supplied to this country are actually from Ethiopia. Also, 50 per cent of meat supplied is from those pastoralists in northern Kenya. We need to open up those roads. I support the Ministry that these roads must be tolled. We must engage partners who will help us toll all the major highways so that we can develop these highways across the country at the same time and realize equity. Sen. Tobiko can then be a happy Senator because, the highway to Namanga will have been expanded. Therefore, increasing the efficiency of transportation of goods and services from our neighboring country, Tanzania. At the moment, we are doing a lot of imports from Tanzania through Namanga. Expansion of that congested narrow road and increased population due to urbanization towards that part of the country, we will definitely, see an increase in volume of trade. In order to also ensure equity, we support the national Government and the Ministry of Roads and Transport in implementing this tolling programme of all highways. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one of the major economic corridors in this country is the Mombasa-Nairobi-Nakuru-Eldoret-Kitale-West Pokot-Turkana Road all the way to South Sudan. If that road is tolled and made a four-lane highway, the time it takes to transport goods to South Sudan will reduce by two days. That means the volume of trade and the efficiency in delivery of goods will have increased and Kenya will benefit. It has been shown that every time we do a road, a number of small towns and markets begin to grow, simply because goods can now reach markets. There is a lot of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

production in the rural parts of this country. The challenge has been how to move those goods to the market. That is why cartels thrive in this country because, they take advantage of the poor infrastructure network and a farmer who cannot transport their goods to the market because of poor road networks. Therefore, they devalue the productivity of that farmer in the rural part of this country while, we all know that agriculture remains one of the sectors that creates the largest percentage of employment in this country. I, therefore, support the Ministry and only ask that this time round, those processes must be completely transparent. We do not want situations such as what we witnessed in the Nairobi Expressway where, part of Government funds had been expended in development of that infrastructure but all the revenue that is being generated is going to a private investor. Of which, we are not sure because records have not been availed to this House, whether what the Government invested has been subtracted from the total investments that is now being paid through the use of those roads. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we also want to encourage the Ministry that as they seek international partners to develop these roads, Kenyans and locals with capacity should be given priority or at least, a certain percentage of that investment should be reserved for them. We have a very vibrant cooperative movement in this country. If you look at the resources the cooperative sector controls, it runs close to trillions of monies. Given an opportunity, these cooperatives can be part of those investing in this infrastructure so that Kenyans also benefit from these infrastructural developments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will emphasise the issue of pending bills. The Controller of Budget (COB) particularly for county governments, should not release funds in the next financial year unless counties have made provisions. Some debts have remained unpaid in several counties for more than six years. There is no way you expect that enterprise to continue being in existence if its funds are going to be withheld, not because that enterprise has not delivered service or goods but simply because, they did the work, delivered goods or gave service during a term of a previous governor. The trend in this country where payments to suppliers and business people are hinged on which administration is in office should come to an end. Once goods and services are consumed by the public and the Auditor - General has certified that indeed that expenditure was proper, then the service or the goods should be fully paid for by either level of Government or the Government agency that has utilised that service. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support that we need to manage debt in this country and as a House, we still insist that we need a complete audit of all the debts we have in this country. It is not possible that we are still paying debts that were borrowed in the sixties and yet, we are not getting any records from the National Treasury of how much of these debts have been cleared, how many debts are due and how many debts are 10, 40 or 20 years old. The National Treasury cannot be just talking about debts. It is time they provided records of these debts because we could be servicing debts that we have already paid. I, therefore, ask the National Treasury even as we discuss this Debt Management Strategy, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

that we shall also be demanding to be given all the records of all the debts. Even if it will take this House five or 10 days to interrogate, we better begin having clean records of how much debt is there, what it is owed to whom, when was it borrowed and at what rate. Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we witnessed short-term borrowing by the national Government, especially towards the run-up of the last general elections where the Government was borrowing debts that needed to be paid in less than a year. Any government borrowing debts that need to be paid in less than six months is equivalent to a government operating through a shylock. Any sensible government should have concessional loans where you are even given time to first invest before you begin repaying. However, we ask the National Treasury to find a way of rescheduling and renegotiating the terms of those loans so that the economy is not hard-pressed to service loans at the expense of also delivering services. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I submit.

Hon. Members, there being no other Senator interested in contributing to this Motion, I call upon the Mover. Sen. Osotsi, I have a recording here to the effect that you have your three minutes in the County Boundaries Bill. Do you want to contribute to this Report?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was to contribute to the Report on debt management.

Sen. Faki, resume your seat so that we allow Sen. Osotsi as the last Member to contribute to this Motion.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for that opportunity. Debt management strategy is a very important issue in this country. Therefore, this Motion is equally very important to this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in this debt management strategy, there are three levels of debt. We have multilateral, bilateral and commercial debts. The multilateral debt is about Kshs3.1 trillion, which is at least 50 per cent of the total external debts. The bilateral debt is about Kshs1.4 trillion, which is 23 per cent of the debt. The commercial debt is about Kshs1.7 trillion, which comprises about 27 per cent of the debt. A lot of emphasis should be put on commercial debts because they are expensive. When they comprise about 27 per cent of the total debt, it becomes a problem. One of these debts is Eurobond. As a strategy, the country should seek to reduce the level of commercial debts so that the interest charged can go down significantly. During the campaigns, the issue of public debts was one of the very important topics that was discussed by both sides of the political divide and we agreed on nearly most of the things. One of the things was that we come up with a strategy of lowering public debt, issues like renegotiation of debts, restructuring et cetera . We are not seeing much of that. This strategy should be talking about that as well. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have noted that domestic debt has been going up. It is not a good sign because if we have an economy where domestic debt is going up, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

it simply means the Government is competing with the private sector to borrow, which leads to high interest rates. For example, debt attributable to Treasury bonds is about Kshs4.2 trillion, debt attributed to Treasury bills is about Kshs565 billion and debts attributable to overdrafts and International Monetary Fund (IMF) special drawing rights is about Kshs220 billion. As a strategy, the Government should focus on reducing domestic debts so that it does not compete with the private sector in chasing debts and therefore, affecting the development of the private sector. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to talk about the whole process of engagement, as Parliament, on matters of laws or strategies around financial matters. We have just passed the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). One of the most fundamental things that this House said in that policy statement was that we are going to allocate Kshs415 billion to counties. We know that the Division of Revenue Bill is coming. We will also have an opportunity to process the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I was surprised to see the National Assembly debating the Division of Revenue Bill. That is not a good thing because the Division of Revenue Bill is one of the fundamental Bills that hugely affect counties. Therefore, it should originate from this House. Why should it originate from the National Assembly such that it is the one to discuss division of revenue to our counties ahead of the Senate? I think something is wrong in this Parliament. Something is fundamentally wrong. We are seeing a trend where Bills that affect counties hugely originating from the National Assembly and we are not doing anything about it. We had the Affordable Housing Bill, the Water Bill, and probably many other Bills that will originate from the National Assembly. I said here some time back that this Senate has to wake up. We must wake up and fight for devolution in this country because at this rate, we are going to be partners in destroying devolution in this country. We know we belong to various sides of the political divide; the minority and the majority sides. However, the most fundamental thing that should make us work for the Kenyans is Article 96 of the Constitution, which says that we exist to protect the interests of our counties. We cannot protect the interests of our counties if we allow devolution to be fought using the very institution which is supposed to protect devolution. Even as we talk about this, we must ask ourselves serious questions. That is why I support that as a bicameral Parliament, we need to define which aspects should originate from the Senate and those from the National Assembly. We should not allow Members of the National Assembly to be the ones to determine for us how much should be taken to the counties. We have already said that we want Kshs415 billion shillings to go to our counties. Let that stand. That cannot be varied in the Division of Revenue Bill. I want to say clearly that the only House that has the power to determine how much should go to the counties is the Senate. Some two weeks back, I was at a function where a commissioner for the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) stood up in the presence of Sen. Cherarkey The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

and myself and said that they are going to give counties a certain amount of money. I told her they do not have powers because the Senate has the power. They only recommend and we can decide to go with their recommendation or reject it. People are misusing the powers to give resources to our counties. The Senate has the power. Even as Members of the National Assembly discuss the Division of Revenue Bill, they must not interfere with what we proposed in the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) where we said that we want Kshs415 billion to go to our counties. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to go further than that. All I want to say is that management of debt in this country is the most important aspect of our economic management. A lot of emphasis must be put on ensuring that this country lives within its means. One of the things that contribute to high increase in debt is when you try to come up with ambitious budget, then you have a budget deficit. When you have a budget deficit, where do you get money from? You either tax people but if you do not continue taxing people anymore, you will borrow. So even with this budget we are proposing, I do not see how they will manage the issue of debts. They will still be forced to borrow so that they can manage the budget deficit. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support.

I now call on Sen. Faki to reply to the Motion.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa fursa hii kujibu Hoja hii ambayo ni muhimu sana katika Bunge letu la Seneti pamoja na Bunge la Kitaifa kwa ujumla. Kwanza, ninawapongeza na kuwashukuru Maseneta wote ambao wamechangia Hoja hii wakiongozwa na Kiongozi wa Walio Wengi katika Bunge hili; Sen. Cheruiyot, Sen. Sifuna, Sen. Olekina, Sen. Orwoba na Sen. Oketch Gicheru, ambaye pia ni mwanachama wa Kamati ya Fedha na Bajeti; Sen. Maanzo, Sen. Kisang’, Sen. Tobiko ambaye amezungumza kwa hamasa kubwa, Sen. Mandago ambaye alikuwa Gavana wa Gatuzi la Uasin Gishu na mwisho, Sen. Osotsi. La msingi ni kuwa, ijapokuwa dhiki ya deni imepungua kwa sasa lakini bado kuna hatari ya dhiki hiyo kurejea tena. Kwa sababu tumeona kuwa Serikali ilisema kwamba italipa deni la Eurobond kufikia Disemba mwaka uliopita lakini hawakuweza kulipa na walipopata mkopo mwingine mwezi wa pili, ulikuwa ni mkopo wa US$1.5 billion ilhali deni la Eurobond ni US$2 billion. Kwa hivyo, ijapokuwa malipo yatafanywa kwa wakati, lakini swala la dhiki ya deni yaani debt stress ni kitu ambacho kitaendelea kuwa katika shingo letu kwa muda mrefu utakaokuja. Mapendekezo yaliyotolewa na Maseneta wote ni mapendekezo ya kufaa kuhusiana na vipi bajeti yetu itakavyokuwa. Tumeona kuwa kutakuwa na upungufu wa Kshs703.9 bilioni katika bajeti ya mwaka huu. Upungufu huo utafadhiliwa na madeni ya kutoka nje ya asilimia 55. na vile vile madeni ya kutoka ndani ya asilimia 45. Katika madeni yatokayo ndani, Serikali itakuwa inapingana na wananchi pamoja na wafanyibiashara kupata pesa za kufanya maendeleo ama kuziba pengo lililoko na hiyo itasabisha mkurupuko wa riba katika nchi yetu. Vile vile mkurupuko huo utazidi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

kuongeza bei ya bidhaa katika nchi yetu kwa sababu benki nyingi zitakuwa zinakopesha Serikali pesa kuliko kukopesha wananchi ambapo itakuwa shida kupata malipo hayo. Sen. Sifuna alichangia kwa kusema kwamba tumepuuza mapendekezo ya Institute

lakini hayo sio kweli kwa sababu tumeweza kujadili mapendekezo yote na kuyaweka katika Ripoti ile na kwamba hatukuweza kulichukua pendekezo hilo kama pendekezo la Kamati sio kwa lengo la kuyapuuza mapendekezo ambayo yametolewa. Suala la ufadhili wa kutoka kwa watu binafsi yaani public-private partnership ni suala ambalo tumejadili hata katika Bunge lililopita. Wakati tulipokuwa tunaangalia mabadiliko ya debt ceiling yaani mabadiliko ya juu ya deni, tuliangalia masuala ambayo Serikali ilikuwa imependekeza. Mojawapo ya pendekezo ambalo lilitolewa na Serikali ni kwamba walikuwa wamepitisha sheria ya ile public private partnership na ya kwamba sasa miradi ya Serikali inapelekwa katika misingi ya public-private partnership kuangalia kama wanaweza kupata mfadhili wa kufanya mradi ule ili waweze kumlipa pole pole. TheNairobi Expressway ni moja ya miradi ambayo imeweza kufanyika na ni kweli tunaweza kusema ya kwamba ni mradi ambao umeweza kufaulu kwa sababu tumeona malengo yametimia na wananchi wanalipa bila kulalamika kwa njia yoyote. Cha kustaadhabisha ni kuwa Serikali hii ilipochukuwa mamlaka ilijaribu kupuuza ile miradi na mikakati yote ya nyuma ambayo ilikuwa imewekwa kuhakikisha kwamba ile sheria imeweza kutumika kuwafaidi wananchi. Bw. Spika wa Muda, nimefurahi kwa sababu Serikali inajaribu kuchukua mbinu hii ya kuleta maendeleo katika nchi yetu ya Kenya. Hii njia itasaidia kupunguza pressure ambayo inatokana na upungufu wa fedha ambazo Serikali inayo kwa sasa na kuhakikisha tumepata maendeleo. Miradi mingi inaweza kufanywa kwa njia hii ya ufadhili wa kibinafsi ili kupunguza madeni na kuweka pesa katika nyanja za kuzalisha kwa haraka zaidi kuliko zinazozalishwa kwa miradi inayochukua muda mrefu

Sen. Faki, you are the Mover. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ningeomba kuwa tuahirishe kupigiwa kura kwa suala hili kuambatana na Kifungu cha 66(3) cha Kanuni za Kudumu za Seneti.

Hon. Senators, voting on this Motion shall be deferred to the next sitting.

I call upon the Clerk to call the next Order.

Hon. Senators, debate on this Bill was interrupted on 5th March, 2024. At that time, Sen. Osotsi was on the Floor. Sen. Osotsi, you have a balance of three minutes to conclude your contribution to the Bill. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stopped at the point where I was saying that the Bill is a good thing that has happened. We have made several attempts to address this issue in Parliaments of the past but nothing has come out. We have received so many Petitions in this Parliament or in our offices about matters to do with boundary review. The boundary area that has attracted a lot of Petitions is the Maseno/Vihiga Boundary. I represent Vihiga County and have received numerous requests from the people who stay around Maseno area that they would like that matter to be addressed. This matter does not just affect the boundary but other institutions. For example, the churches, hospitals and roads have been some of the issues that have come up. I am very optimistic that with this Bill, this longstanding problem that we have had will be addressed. I had suggested that the Bill should not just focus on one scenario, that is, boundary review. The Bill should also look at the worst-case scenario. What if the review does not happen? We know that this matter of boundary review will be a hotly contested issue. How do we move forward? They must also look at scenario B, which in my view is, if the issue of boundary cannot be resolved, then let us look at the issues of provision of services, revenue sharing, sharing infrastructure, religion and all that. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am saying this because a lot of revenue that Maseno, which is in Kisumu gets, emanates from Vihiga County. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sen. Osotsi, your three minutes have since been consumed by your contribution. So, I will invite the hon. Members who have requested on the dashboard to speak to this Bill. Sen. Maanzo, kindly proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Sen. M. Kajwang’ for bringing this Bill back. The County Boundaries Bill, 2023 was previously County Boundaries Bill, 2022 and it was caught up with Parliamentary time. It had been moved by the now Governor of Makueni, who was then Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the County Boundaries Bill has tried to put together and synchronise the boundaries of the counties in Kenya, bearing in mind that this has just been said by Sen. Osotsi. There have been very many petitions and complaints on boundaries especially when it comes to levies and polling stations. Consequently, the jurisdiction that deals with boundaries is the Independent Boundaries Commission (IEBC). Unfortunately, right now, we do not have IEBC in Kenya. We do not have the commissioners but the rest of the structure remains. However, without the commissioners, there are no boundaries that can be reviewed or synchronised. Therefore, the former Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr came up with this Bill which has now been adapted by the Hon. Moses Otieno Kajwang’ word for word other than his name. Therefore, I rise to support it and say that under Clause 52, it seeks to repeal Cap 105 (A) which is the District and Provinces Act. This Act is the one which laid the disputes in 1992 and when the new Constitution was being made and that is what followed, to come up with the new 47 counties that we have today. Unfortunately, there have been many issues in various borders. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at times, people get lost with regard to the boundaries as this is highly determined by the chief. You know the administrative boundaries and the county commissioner reigns together with the wards and sub-wards. Additionally, where a Member of the County Assembly is elected, the polling stations do guide the borders. One of the things that has been in dispute are polling stations and markets. Therefore, I want to bring the point closer home. Before I do that, I want to state that the Hon. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr and now Sen. M. Kajwang’ then went on to define each district as of the 1992 situation when the Districts and Provinces Act applied. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. M. Kajwang’ has gone on to look at the borders as they were then in 1992 for the 47 counties and has gone ahead to describe the ‘border’ of county by county. That is why this County Boundaries Bill has 285 pages. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because it is something I am familiar with, I may not take the entire time that is required. I want to deal with the Makueni case, where we have a border dispute between Makueni and Taita Taveta counties. I would like to state that many people in Makueni and Taita Taveta counties have migrated vice versa . There are many people settled in Taita Taveta County, originally from Makueni County. There are also many people settled in Makueni County, originally from Taita-Taveta County. One of the border disputes towns has been Mtito Andei. The status of Mtito Andei Town is that some matter was filed in court by three residents of Mtito Andei, who The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

complained without justification that, in fact, they wanted to pay levies to Taita Taveta County, yet they are in Makueni County. When it went to Mombasa courts, the court stated that it had no jurisdiction to deal with the matter and referred the matter to the National Land Commission (NLC). The NLC was unable to deal with the matter for lack of jurisdiction and was sent back to the courts. The court then decided to deal with the matter of the levies alone. When it dealt with that particular matter alone, it was unable to proceed since there is no Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) where the right jurisdiction falls. So, the courts and NLC have no jurisdiction. It is only the IEBC who have jurisdiction. Recently, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration was in Makueni, particularly Kambu, to deal with the new district, which touches Mtito Andei, and that border. He set up a Committee of the two county commissioners and the administrators therein, to sit in the next two weeks from that time to arbitrate this particular matter. This we now have one week to go for them to come up with the actual borders between Makueni County and Taita Taveta County. However, the truth of the matter is that the border dispute between Makueni and Taita Taveta counties is a nullity. There is no border dispute. The chief of Mtito Andei reports to the County Commissioner, Makueni County. The Officer Commanding Station (OCS) of Mtito Andei reports to the Commander of Makueni County. The elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) of Mtito Andei Ward is of Makueni County and he sits in the Makueni County Assembly. All the polling stations vote at Makueni County, at no point have they ever voted at a Taita Taveta County. However, the Senator of Taita Taveta County and I are very keen on this particular matter. We do not want these very friendly counties to go into any dispute at all in a matter which does not exist in the first place. We want harmony because, as I have said, most of the people have moved from Makueni to Taita Taveta County and people have moved from Taita Taveta County and trade in Mtito Andei, knowing very well that they are trading in Makueni. Therefore, it is just three people who brought this matter and by their own volition, wanted to pay levies to another county but not Makueni County. Therefore, I would like to state clearly that the particular dispute is really a nullity. We just want this team which has been set up recently, to come up with an answer as quickly as possible. That will be reported to have settled the matter in court. In fact, that particular matter in court, which has hearing dates, we have gotten one of the best lawyers in the eastern region, Senior Counsel Eric Mutua, who was one time the Chairperson of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK), to deal with the matter and is dealing with it competently. However, should this Bill pass before all those are concluded, then we will go by the boundaries put in this Act of Parliament. I believe that will settle the matter once and for all, so that our people can live in harmony. We are keen on the two counties co-existing peacefully. No one should come to Mtindo Andei in Makueni and claim that it belongs to another county. People have tried to politicize this. They come up with fake newspaper pullouts that the court has already determined. These are people who want to cause trouble The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

between counties which have been co-existing peacefully. That sort of an idea is criminal and that person should be dealt with in an appropriate manner that a criminal is dealt with, so that people co-exist peacefully. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while still on this particular matter, on the other side of Taita-Taveta, the last polling station is somewhere in the park. It is even kilometres away from Mtito Andei. When they do public participation, that is where the Governor of Taita-Taveta stops. In the past 12 years or so, there is no single time the Governor of Taita-Taveta ever did public participation in Mtito Andei. Such disputes are duplicated in numerous other counties. This Act will settle the matter once and for all. Therefore, it is imperative that this law, which has really been designed carefully and thoughtfully, will settle disputes in many counties, including the issue of Mtito Andei. I urge the residents of those two counties to wait for the outcome of this Act and the committee that was recently established by the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration. In the event the court proceeds with the matter, they should accept whatever outcome. No single person of Makueni has been levied by Taita-Taveta County Government or denied to do business. Anybody with a doubt can go to Mtito Andei and make inquiries to all business premises there. They will find that no one has ever come to cause trouble to anybody. The only people who do not wish the two counties well have been brewing trouble, which is totally unnecessary. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support all the proposals which have been debated here. There are good schedules, data and historical boundary systems of these two counties. As I support, I look forward to this law being passed so that the matter can be settled once and for all. I thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Maanzo. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Cherarkey is looking at me with unusual eyes. I do not know what is going on but it is okay. I feel protected especially because it is in the evening. Sen. Cherarkey is not as dangerous in the evening as he is at the start of the session. Indeed, this is a wonderful Bill. If you read Chapter Six of the Constitution, it starts by defining the territory of our country purely in the context of counties. It is furthered in Schedule One, whereby counties that we enjoy being part of in our respective capacities, are well enumerated in Schedule One, from No.1 to 47. The challenge with the Constitution is that the idea of boundaries of those territorial units in our larger territory called Kenya were not well defined. I belabour to say that the definition of that was furthered by the use of the Districts and Provinces Act of 1992; to be specific, CAP 105. Wherein, the boundaries that were used to determine counties which were previous districts under the said Act were not satisfactory, it is natural that the issue of boundaries was always going to emanate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, to be specific, solving such an issue becomes very complex because there is the issue of determining what the boundary of a county is and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

the issue of altercations that come with altering those boundaries because of different issues. I find this Bill amazingly placed in the context of helping our counties to define their borders. Last year, one of the biggest confrontations that we had in this House was on the issue of Sondu versus Kericho. If you remember, my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale of Kakamega together with yours truly, Eddy Oketch, had a small confrontation on the loss of lives in Sondu. This loss was in a such a way that the people between Kisumu and Kericho have been fighting over what constitutes the boundary of those two counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, sometimes these disputes come with economic excitement and interest. If you look at Sondu, it is one of the most performing markets in that region. Sometimes, the issue is; who collects the local revenue in this border centre that attracts serious economic activity and the arrangement becomes an endemic fight that will always go on? This Bill seeks to put together a good legal framework that can allow people to sit and address these issues. We know that Article 188 that has been quoted here a number of times does not suggest that the disputes of boundaries will be sorted by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC). The IEBC comes in boundaries review. However, before reviewing the boundaries, there is the question of, where do I belong as a person from Kisumu or Kericho? Even most recently, where do I belong as a person from Kisii if I am from Kisii vis-a-vis where do I belong as a person from Nyamira? That fundamental question of what is actually the boundary of a county comes to play before IEBC can review the boundary. So, before we talk about boundaries review, that is the basic definition this Bill seeks to address by establishing what it calls the Independent Counties Boundaries Commission (ICBC). This Commission is in line with Article 188 of the Constitution because this Article does not refer to IEBC as the fundamental institution to resolve the issue of boundaries. However, it refers to any independent commission that can be formed using a Parliamentary process such as this one that Sen. M. Kajwang’ has rightfully put together in this Bill to help us rethink the issue of boundaries. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is important because the nature of our boundaries that were drawn under the Districts and Provinces Act, 1992 and the physical features or the landmarks that were used at that time have since changed. If you think about it, many things have changed from 1992 to to date. In 1992, I remember there was the Rio Summit that sought to bring to the attention of some grassroots communities the idea of climate change. No one took climate change very seriously at that time because it was an issue that had just come in 1998 through one National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) scientist called James Hansen. He brought that to the Senate of the United State of America (USA) that climate change was becoming a major issue that needed to be addressed. If you look at the case for investment in climate change since 1992 to date, there has not been a robust investment to deal with the problems of climate change. Now, a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

child born in 1992 is probably 31 years old. Within 32 years, many things have happened in terms of delineation of a physical feature that defined boundaries at that time. If for instance, a river that used to be seasonal, was used as a feature at that time in the district boundaries marking and even in redistricting, by now the river no longer exists. If you used that river to say district X which then became boundary Y in the current arrangement used that river, you cannot even imagine where that river existed. This would lead to serious perpetual conflict after conflict. Therefore, having such a legal mechanism as what is proposed in this Bill is the right and best way to go to make sure that the dispute we are seeing in county boundaries is solved. Part 4 and 5 of this Bill is very explicit on the process and persona of the people who can propose the review of boundaries and even alteration. The Bill has attempted to define very well the people who can propose those alterations. It gives the power to the individuals in terms of any person within a county but more specifically, it gives people like Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) who live in our grassroots communities the power to review boundaries by being able to propose and petition Parliament, especially, the Senate. This is because most of these boundaries’ issues are going to affect counties. Therefore, this is the House where they can to highlight such things. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it gives even the Senators the power to Petition for a review of a boundary in the context of its alteration. I find that to be ingenious because other than that, the issue of alteration of boundaries has been a political issue. If you think about it, it is where, for instance, governors who sometimes have the interest of collecting small revenue in the small markets within our boundaries, tend to charge people in emotive political narratives on what constitutes their boundaries or not. This Bill addresses this very well by making sure there is a proper process and definition of individuals who can propose for boundary review. More importantly, there is a proper channel within which the commissions, under Part 5, the Independent County Boundaries Commission can be able to solidly deliberate on that particular process. The spirit of this Bill should also help us question such things as whether the counties we have right now are enough. I have held the view that the more devolved units we have in this country, the better off we are. I hold the view that places such as Kuria, where I come from, the Kuria District of that time and the Kuria sub-county that we have right now, given their functions at the border of the country and to our community and the population they have right now should be given a county. That does not take away from Migori County but adds to it because when Migori gets, say, Kshs12 billion and Kuria also gets Kshs12 billion, it means more resources are devolved to go to the counties.

When this Bill is back in the Order Papers, Sen. Oketch, you will have eight more minutes to contribute to it.

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Hon. Senators, you may rise. It is now 6:30 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 21st March, 2024, at 2:30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6:30 p.m.

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