Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Hon. Senators, please take your seats and be orderly.

Order! Sen. Nyutu, since when did you become an usher?

Hon. Senators, at the adjournment of the sitting at 1.00 p.m. today, the Governor was still presenting her case. We had to stand down a witness to allow us to go for a lunch break. Therefore, we will proceed from where we left it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Counsel for Governor, you may recall your witness. Clerk, proceed to call the Order.

Counsel, before you start, I remind you that you have one hour 55 minutes to conclude the presentation of the Governor's case. You may proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir and hon. Members, may I remind the witnesses, through the Chair, that he is still under oath.

Thank you. I am aware that I am still under oath.

Mr. Munene, let us proceed from where we had stopped. We will be moving to the second issue. The Motion for impeachment before the Senate accused the Governor of failing to appoint chairpersons of the Meru County Revenue Board, Meru County Micro Finance Corporation, Meru Youth Service Board and Meru County Investment and Development Corporation. What is your response to that, Mr. Munene?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members. The Governor has been accused of failing to appoint the Chairpersons of the Meru County Revenue Board, Meru Micro Finance Corporation, Meru Youth Service Board and Meru County Investment and Development Corporation Board as required by the law. I wish to state that by virtue of the information that has come within me, the allegation is not true. The County Secretary, by a letter dated 18th June, 2023, forwarded to the County Assembly the name of Japhet Ndumba Ithinji as a nominee Chairperson of the Meru County Revenue Board. The process of appointment of these chairpersons starts by the Governor forwarding the list of nominees to the Assembly for approval. It is only once the Assembly has approved---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, sorry for intervention, but I would seek your guidance that the witness directs us to the place where that evidence is so that we can follow. Most obliged.

I was getting there.

No, get there first. As you explain, we need to be on that page. Start with the page containing that document, so that when all the Senators and other parties are there, you can then proceed to explain yourself.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is on page 53 of the Governor's bundle of documents, volume 1B. There is a letter there dated 18th June, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

2023 received by the office of the Clerk of the County Assembly on 21st June 2023. The Governor and the County Executive Committee Member in charge of Finance, pursuant to Section 6 of the Meru County Revenue Board Act, forwards the list of nominees for the chairperson and two members of the County Revenue Board. Mr. Speaker, Sir and hon. Members, page 57 of the same bundle of documents is a letter dated 21st June, 2023, received in the office of the Clerk of the County Assembly of Meru on the same date. It is forwarding the list of the chairpersons and two members for approval by the County Assembly, specifically the name of Harriet Karamana Gitonga Nkathata as the Chairperson of Meru County Investment and Development Corporation . Page 58 of the same bundle of documents is a letter dated 21st June, 2023. It is forwarding the list of chairperson and nominee members for approval by the County Assembly, pursuant to Section 6 of the Meru County Youth Service Act. That letter was received on 21st June, 2023. Of importance is the name of Kimathi Mutembei Dennis, the chairperson the Governor is seeking approval, so that she can appoint. Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, after this letter, the County Assembly through a letter dated 21st July, 2023, the Clerk of the County Assembly wrote to the County Secretary. That is in page 60, volume 1B whereby the Clerk of the County Assembly is saying that “My office is unable to recommend the same (the list) for their consideration to be transmitted to the County Assembly for action.” Largely because they observed that there is some missing information regarding the status of offices as some of the offices sought to be filled and substantive office holders. A similar letter that appears on page 61 of volume 1B, is a reminder letter followed by the letter that was received on 21st July, 2023. In response to that letter, the County Secretary and Head of Public Service wrote a letter dated 18th September, 2023. It appears on page 54 of volume 1B of the same bundle of documents. This letter indicates that reference is made to the above subject matter and your letter detained 31st August, 2023. The nominees of the County Revenue Board are made in anticipation of their lapse of term on 14th December, 2023. All the other offices fell vacant by way of natural attrition. On page 55 is another letter from the County Secretary directed to the Clerk of the County Assembly, which is a polite reminder. It was received on 11th January, 2024. On page 56, volume 1B, on 21st March, 2024, the County Secretary wrote another reminder to the Clerk of the County Assembly of Meru, and subsequently, by a letter dated 15th July, 2024. It is in the County Assembly's bundle of documents, volume one.

As you check on that, Mr. Munene, is that a demonstration of compliance from Her Excellency the Governor?

It is a demonstration of compliance and of importance is that the letter dated 31st August, which is on page 61, appears on volume 1B of the Governor's bundle of documents. The Clerk of the County Assembly indicates- “This is to kindly make a follow-up on the request and information to facilitate the committee of the 400 names to the various semi-autonomous boards of the County Government of Meru to the relevant committee of the County Assembly for vetting and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

consideration, excluding the nominees of the Meru County Alcoholic Drinks Control Board, whose nomination has been since committed to the relevant committee of the County Assembly for vetting and consideration.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, despite the Clerk of the County Assembly confirming that the list for the Meru County Alcoholic Drinks Control Board had been laid to the relevant committee by 31st August, 2023, to date, that vetting is yet to be concluded. Mr. Speaker, Sir, volume II of the County Assembly documents, page 60, is the letter I was referring to. It is dated 15th July, 2024. In this letter, dated 15th July, 2024, the County Secretary is making a follow-up of the position of the nominees, whether they have been approved or not, and indicates- “To date, the County Assembly has deliberately failed to approve and or communicate its rejection of the nominees to the County Executive despite constant reminders.” This is a letter dated 15th July 2024. I emphasize the statement, “despite constant reminders” because I am aware that yesterday, the Clerk of the County Assembly appeared before this honourable House and disputed the three letters that I have mentioned, that is the letter appearing on pages 54, 55 and 56 of the Governor's bundle of documents. The Clerk of the County Assembly indicated they have never received any letter as a reminder.

Thank you. That point has been exhausted. Let us proceed to the next issue. The next accusation is that the Governor has refused to implement resolutions of the Assembly to dismiss the County Secretary, Dr. Kiambi Thambura, and the Chief of Staff, Mr. Gatobu Nchamba. What is your answer to that, Mr. Munene?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Governor has been accused of refusing to implement the resolution of the County Assembly, requiring the dismissal of the County Secretary and the Chief of Staff. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware by virtue of the position that I hold, that once a report of the Committee of the County Assembly has been discussed, that report has to be tabled. Once a report of a Petition has been prepared, it has to be tabled in the County Assembly and resolutions pursuant to that report made. Thereafter, the resolutions and the HANSARD for that sitting, adopting the report, are supposed to be forwarded to the Executive or to the Governor to implement the resolution. I can confirm that the document that the County Assembly seeks to rely on does not include a resolution. They do not include any HANSARD showing whether the report for the Joint Committee was adopted by the Assembly or not. So, to that end, there is no resolution to accuse the Governor of not implementing.

Thank you, Mr. Munene. Quickly, as a practitioner of law, does the County Assembly have a mandate to dismiss a County Secretary and Chief of Staff as officers in the office of the Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of a provision in the law that mandates the County Assembly to dismiss the County Secretary or the Chief of Staff. To the best of my knowledge and in reference to a decision of a Kilifi High Court, in Owen Yaa Baya versus the Kilifi County Government, the former County The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Secretary of Kilifi County, the decision of that case indicates that the County Assembly can only move a censure Motion against the County Secretary. The provision of the law, Section 44 of the County Governments Act talks of the removal of the County Secretary by the Governor. That the Governor may remove the County Secretary, subject to the terms and conditions of the contract of service.

Thank you, Mr. Munene. The next question will be the Governor has been accused of illegally dismissing Dr. Ntoiti, the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the County Revenue Board, Paul Mwaki, CEO of the Liquor Board, Kenneth Kimathi Mbai, Managing Director of Meru Microfinance Corporation and Joseph Kithure, CEO of Meru Water and Sewerage Services Company Ltd (MEWASSCO), in usurpation of the powers of the appointing authorities. What is your answer to that, Mr. Munene?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I would like you to note that this is a ground or particulars that were presented before the previous impeachment Motion in which I appeared as a witness before this Hon. Senate. I can confirm that this was one of the grounds. The allegation that has been made is not true. The Governor did not dismiss Dr. Ntoiti, Paul Mwaki, Kenneth Mbae and Joseph Kithure. On the contrary, Dr. Ntoiti resigned and Paul Mwaki served his term, whose contract ended on15th December, 2023 and Kenneth Mbae left. In the decision that they are seeking to rely on, you realize that Kenneth Mbae did not return to work after the court quashed the former County Secretary's letter sending Kenneth Mbae on compulsory leave. He did not resume his work, so he abandoned work. Joseph Kithure served his term until it was terminated by lapse of time. The allegation that the County Government of Meru has been slapped with the Kshs4 million in that decision is not true. It is not a correct observation. The county government is not a party to that employment and labour relations dispute. In the same order, the cumulative general damages of Kshsh1 million were granted.

Perhaps very quickly, Mr. Munene, if you could refer the house to the specific documents they wish to rely on.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, page 68 of the bundle of documents, volume 1B of the Governor's bundle of documents, it is a request for confirmation on employment of Dr. John Ntoiti made by the County Secretary to the Nairobi City County Secretary. On page 69 is a resignation of Dr. John Ntoiti dated on 14th November 2023. Page 70 of that bundle of documents is a letter from the Nairobi City County confirming the employment status of Dr. John Ntoiti. That Dr. John Ntoiti is an employee of Nairobi City County. Page 71 of volume IB of the bundle of documents, it is a Notice of Appeal indicating that the respondent disagreed with the decision of the court and they have preferred an appeal against that decision.

Mr. Munene, I think that is sufficient. I will move to the final issue. The Governor has been accused of having a bloated workforce in her office. What is the response to that, Mr. Munene? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, I confirm that there is such an allegation of a bloated workforce and also there was a similar allegation in the previous impeachment Motion in which I also appeared as a witness whereby, the governor is accused of having a bloated workforce. There are documents on the contrary to indicate that the governor has been categorical on the issue of controlling the wage bill in the county. That is by minimizing any hiring or replacements. Through the assistance of my advocate, I want to get to that page.

On page 170 of volume 1B of the bundle of documents, this is a letter from the County Secretary. It is an internal memo from the Secretary, County Public Service Board to the chief of staff. It is dated 17th October, 2023. It is of importance to note that at 17th October, 2023, it is the same week that the second impeachment Motion was drafted and debated at the County Assembly. This was the document that they sought to rely on; they relied on those documents then and they are the same document that they are relying on. In this letter dated 15th October, 2023 on page 170, the Secretary of the County Public Service Board is communicating to the chief of staff that- “We would like to inform you that we have exhausted the available vacancies in the office of the governor as per the Transition Authority circular of 6th September, 2013, we have concluded on the recruitment process of for staff in the governor's office. Attached, please find the list of the officers who have been so far employed in the office of the governor. Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, that list has 29 employees, 19 directly under the Governor's office and 10 under the Deputy Governor's office. Surprisingly, by a letter dated 6th October, 2023, that is the following day. The first letter is dated 5th October, 2023; the second letter is dated 6th October, 2023, but delivered on 5th, December, 2023. That is after the impeachment Motion. The first letter appearing on 5th October, but was sent to the chief of staff on 17th October, when it is received. The second letter appearing on page 175 of the same bundle of documents is dated 6th October, 2023 and received on 5th, December, 2023. Page 175, volume 1B of the Governor's bundle of documents, this letter, the board has appointed Mr. Gitobu Tunu Gatweri as an Administrative Officer to replace Hellen Bahati Matilu who left service. She will be placed in the Deputy Governor's office. This is, therefore, to give you authority to load her into the payroll.

What was the response to that?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, by a letter dated 15th December, 2023 appearing on page 173, volume 1B of these documents, the chief of staff responds on authority to load in the payroll and indicates that- “It has been brought to our attention that by a letter detained 6th October, you have ordered the chief officer in charge of public service management to loan a certain Gitobu Tunu Gatweri whom you have apparently appointed as an Administrative Officer, employee under the office of the governor.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

This is a protest letter and on page 174, the letter runs to page 174 of specific importance before this hon. Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and the hon. Members, is that the chief of staff says- “Be reminded also that solely the Governor's previously and including in the recent impeachment proceedings, both the branch of allegations of bloated workforce under the office of the governor and is not willing to preside over further appointments and overloading of the payroll as suggested by your latest communication.” In the same memo, she is saying that- “Be advised that there is an administrative office at the deputy governor's office who was deployed and has been there from 23rd February, 2023.” So, the Governor is resisting any addition. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mena. I think you have been clear beyond par adventure. Mr. Speaker, sir, I will close there in chief. You wait for questions, Mr. Munene.

Counsel for the County Assembly---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the witness seems to have one more issue to clarify as Counsel.

Very well, you can proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, there is also an allegation that has been raised on the issue that the Governor has been accused of abuse of office for paying Mr. Kiambi Manyara full salary while still in remand. I am aware that the County Public Service Board (CPSB) pursuant to Section 59(1) (c) of the County Governments Act is the one mandated with the powers. The CPSB has the disciplinary powers. When it comes to the issue of interdiction of an employee, it is the role of the CPSB to do the interdiction on disciplinary matters.

At times, the CPSB delegates its disciplinary powers through some authorised officers. I am aware that the governor is not an authorised officer within the meaning of Section 86 of the County Governments Act. It cannot be said that she failed to interdict an employee as required by the law.

Thank you, Mr. Munene.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the record, my name is Mwangi Ndegwa. I will take about 10 minutes to cross-examine. Bw. Dickson.

Yes, Sir.

How are you, Bw. Dickson?

I am fine, thank you.

I want to refer you to your affidavit at page 24 of your documents; specifically paragraph three of your affidavit. You deponed the issue of revocation of the appointment, correct?

Yes.

Do you dispute that, Ms. Miriti was appointed?

No, I do not.

You have also deponed that the appointment was not legal. You have also deponed the issue of revocation of the appointment, correct? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Correct.

It is your evidence that the revocation was pursuant to the legal advice?

Correct.

You are on record that the legal advice was done both by yourself and the alleged legal advisor?

Correct.

Have you brought to this Senate an original copy of that legal advice?

No.

Do you have a certified copy?

No.

I want to take you to that legal advice, Bw. Munene. Hon. Members, the legal advice is on page 11 of volume IB of the Governor’s bundle of documents. In that legal opinion on page 11 of Volume 1B of the governor’s response marked as KM5, do we have someone signing off that legal advice? Who is the author of that document on page 12?

It indicates legal advisor.

Do you have it reflecting the name?

No, it does not reflect the name.

It does not reflect the name of either the alleged legal advisor or your own name, does it?

It does not.

Hon. Senators, I want to move with you to the affidavit of Linda Gakii Kiome that was filed yesterday afternoon before this Senate. I hope we all have that affidavit. It is a stand alone affidavit that was filed yesterday afternoon by Linda Gakii Kiome. Mr. Munene, do you have that affidavit?

No.

In that affidavit, there is an annexure.

I do not have the affidavit.

I can supply you a copy. Look at the last annexure that was supplied by Linda Gakii Kiome; the notice of intention to terminate your contract. Do you have that copy, Mr. Munene?

Yes, I am there.

Can you read the second sentence in the paragraph that starts with; “the reason for termination”?

The reason for termination is due to your perennial unavailability to offer legal advice as and whenever the governor requires you.

The sentence preceding that.

You have also deserted your obligation as a legal advisor to the Governor and instead concentrated on your schedule as a council member of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) and also in the running of your law firm which you are the sole proprietor. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Munene, stop at that. This is a notice of intention to terminate the contract of Linda Gakii Kiome, correct?

Yes.

The reason for termination is perennial unavailability and desertion of work, correct?

Correct.

What is the meaning of the word “perennial”? Is it not annually?

It means many times.

What is the date of this letter?

It is 26th March, 2024.

Proceed to the sentence that begins with the word; “When the governor”.

It says- “When the governor raised this concern over the same issue in December, 2023 and in an attempt to amicably resolve it, you intimated that due to the exigencies of your schedule, you contemplated resigning.”

In December which year?

That is 2023.

That means that as at December, 2023, the governor already had issues with her legal advisor, one Linda Gakii Kiome, correct?

It indicates so.

Is that not the inference?

That is what it infers.

I want to take you to the date of the internal memo. When is the date of the internal memo?

It is 23rd February, 2024.

A date coming after the Governor having issues with her legal advisor, correct?

Correct.

A date coming after the governor having identified that her legal advisor has perennially deserted work, correct?

Not correct.

Do you want me to take you back to the intention to terminate?

Yes. The issue of perennial unavailability came up on 26th March, 2024.

Thank you. There is a paragraph that says- “When the Governor raised this concern over the same issue. What issue was the governor raising in December, 2023 with her legal advisor? Is it not the issue of perennial unavailability and desertion of work?

It talks about exigencies of the schedule and contemplated--- Yes, it is. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Is it not the issue of perennial unavailability and desertion as of December 2023?

Yes.

The Governor had problems with her legal advisor for being unavailable at work.

Yes.

Yet on 23rd February, 2024, the legal advisor is in a capacity to advise the governor. Is that correct?

Yes, it is correct.

If we are to look at the veracity and legality of that opinion, Mr. Munene, which you have admitted that you did indeed give or issue, as an advocate, what is the legality of that opinion in light of Section 58(5) of the County Governments Act? Can I take you there, kindly?

Yes, sure.

Section 58(5) is to be found on pages 50 and 51 in our volume III of the County Assembly bundle. Section 58 is about composition of the CPSB. Mr. Munene, can you kindly read Section 58(5) of the County Governments Act?

I am not there yet. Can I be assisted with a copy?

Kindly.

Thank you.

Page 51.

Yes.

Can you kindly read?

The members of the board may only be removed from office – (a) On grounds set out for the removal of members of a constitutional commission under Article 251(1) of the Constitution; and, (b) By a vote of not less than 75 per cent of all Members of the County Assembly.

That is the process of removing a member of the board, correct?

Yes, but not an ex-official member of the board.

Was Ms. Miriti not appointed to the board?

She was an ex-official member of the board.

Yes or no. Is she not a secretary?

She is a secretary.

Does this fly on the face?

Serjeant-at-Arms, is everything okay?

I hope my time was paused, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Munene, it is your evidence that---

Just hold on, counsel. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Counsel, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Munene, it is your evidence that the secretary is an ex-official member.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Can you kindly look at page 50 of the same volume three bundle of the County Assembly, Section 58 (1) on the composition of the board? Are you there?

Yes, I am there.

What is the composition of the board?

The CPSB shall comprise a chairperson appointed in accordance with section 58 (a)---

Go to section 58, subsection 1(c).

I am on Section 58. It says- “At least three, but not more than five members appointed in accordance with section 58 (a). A certified public secretary.”

Is a certified public secretary a member of the board?

An ex-official member.

She is a member of the---

An ex-official member.

Where is the issue of ex-official on section 58 (1) (c)? Constrain yourself to that Section. Is a secretary a member of the board? Yes or no?

Yes.

In respect of Section 58 (5), is the procedure depicted under Section 58(5), the procedure for removal of the secretary? Correct?

It is for the members of the board?

And the secretary, correct?

Article 251 (1)---

No, Mr. Munene. Section 58 (5), the members of the board may only be removed from office pursuant to section 58(5), correct?

Yes and Article 251---

Is that correct? Yes or no?

Correct.

In respect to the legal opinion, does that legal opinion that you claim to have given not fly on the face of Section 58(5) and Article 251? Yes or no?

No.

Mr. Munene, I take you to the question of boards. At paragraph six of your affidavit, you have deponed that the letter by the county secretary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

dated 18th June, 2023 was forwarded to the County Assembly in the name of Japhet Ndome, correct?

Correct.

Were you copied in those letters?

Take me to the letter. I will confirm whether I was copied or not.

Hon. Senators, the said letters are to be found at volume 1B of the Governor's---

Order, Hon. Senators. There is a lot of loud consultations. Kindly, let us hear the witness in silence.

It is at volume 1B of the Governor's bundle. It is marked as KM9A on page 53. Are you copied in that letter dated 18th June?

I am not copied in that letter.

How did you become aware?

By virtue of my position as a County Executive Committee Member (CECM).

How did you become aware? Were you copied?

I am not copied in the letter.

How did you become aware of the information?

By virtue of my position in the County Executive Committee.

Who informed you?

The County Secretary.

Is he testifying in this Senate today?

No.

There was a response that you responded to the various requests by the County Assembly, particularly the letter by the clerk seeking clarification on the missing information. That letter is to be found on page 60 of the Governor's bundle. It is marked as KM9H. It was received 21st July, 2023. It is a letter by the office of the clerk. Mr. Munene, I kindly refer you to the last paragraph of that letter.

Yes.

Can you kindly read the last paragraph on page 60 of Volume 1B of the governor’s bundle?

It says- “Kindly, also feel free to provide any other additional information regarding the nominations that may facilitate the County Assembly to effectively discharge its mandate. We look forward to your response and clarifications.”

Read the preceding paragraph. “We are therefore---

It reads- “We are, therefore, kindly asking for more information/clarification regarding the availability/existence of vacancies in the offices within which the nominations are being The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

made in order to facilitate their transmission to the County Assembly for consideration. This will enable the County Assembly to---”

Stop there, Bw. Munene. Did you ever forward a response in terms of providing the necessary information as required by the clerk? Yes or no?

Yes.

Where is the evidence? Kindly, take us to the evidence quickly.

It is in volume 1B of the Governor's bundle of documents on page 54.

Did you provide the evidence on the further and better particulars as sought in terms of further information?

It is talking of “clarifications.” It is providing for a clarification.

Let me take you to our bundle. Were you not appointing members of the board to non-existent positions or positions that have already been filled up?

No.

Hon. Members, we are referring to volume II of the County Assembly response on page 52. Bw. Munene, can you kindly read out that gazette notice number and the content of the gazette notice?

It is Gazette Notice No. 538. It is notified for public information that the Governor of the County Government of Meru has extended the period of appointment of the Meru County Revenue Board contained in Gazette Notice No. 5202 of 2017 for a period of three years with effect from 15th December, 2020.

Is that not an extension of the office bearers then?

Yes, it is, as at 6th December, 2020. The Gazette Notice is dated 6th December, 2020.

It is dated 15th November, 2020.

It says that the extension will be with effect from 15th December, 2020.

When was the extension to expire?

On 14th December, 2023.

In your letter in the Governor’s bundle, on page 54, when you read that against the letter by the office of the Clerk on page 60, it says- “We are, therefore, kindly asking for more information and clarification regarding the availability existence of vacancies in the office within which the nominations are being made.” Is that so? Was the Clerk asking for information as to which office the members were being nominated to?

Yes, to clarification.

As at 1st July, 2023?

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

That is what you responded vide your letter dated 18th September, 2023.

Yes.

Did you supply information as to which office you are nominating those members.

It is not information, but clarification.

Yes or no? Did you clarify that the office was already having office bearers?

Yes.

Were these office bearers in office on 18th September, 2023?

Yes.

To which office were you nominating members?

The nominees of the County Revenue Board are made in anticipation of their lapse of their term on 14th December, 2023. That is the clarification.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I yield my few minutes to my colleague, Mr. Mawira.

Mr. Munene, the letters appearing on pages 54 to 56, you must be aware that the County Assembly contends that those documents are outright forgeries. Correct?

Yes.

This allegation was brought out yesterday and the Clerk was here. Have you sought the leave of the Speaker or attempted to bring the delivery note of these three letters that you say you are aware they were received by the office of the Clerk?

No.

You have not made such an attempt?

We have not made any attempt

I do not purport to be a forensic expert or a document examiner, but is it a coincidence that these three letters in different years, were stamped on the same place? Different months, different years? Just look at the letterhead of those three letters?

They are stamped on different pages.

Stamped yes, but same place.

It is not the same.

I will leave the hon. Senators to draw their own conclusion. You said that there was a requirement that the County Assembly tabled and adopted a resolution with respect to the petition that had been made by members of the public. Is that your position? Was there a requirement in law that a resolution be passed by the County Assembly for the removal of those officers, the chief of staff and the County Secretary, pursuant to that public petition?

The requirement is that the report is tabled back to the County Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Is there a requirement because you say there is a requirement that a resolution should be passed by the County Assembly after debate. Is there such a requirement in law?

The letter makes reference to resolutions of the Assembly, not of the committee.

Let me refer you to that report, volume II of the Assembly’s documents, the exhibit is in support of the impeachment Motion. On page 140 of Volume II at paragraph 5.2, you will see the committee’s recommendations. Are those the Assembly’s or the committee’s recommendations?

They are committee’s recommendations.

What is recommendation No.2? That the governor do dismiss the county secretary and chief of staff?

Yes.

I will refer you to volume IV of the County Assembly’s documents on page 295, the Standing Orders. On committal of petitions, I will read it out and you will tell me whether you agree with it- “Every petition presented or reported pursuant to this part shall stand committed to the relevant sectoral committee. Whenever a petition is committed to a sectoral committee, the committee shall not in more than 60 calendar days from the time of reading the prayer, respond to the petitioner by way of a report addressed to the petitioner or petitioners and laid on the table of the Assembly and no debate in relation to the report shall be allowed, but the Speaker in exceptional circumstances, allow comments or observations in relation to the petitions for not more than 20 minutes.” Do you still maintain the position that there needed to be a debate and a resolution passed by the County Assembly in light of this Standing Order on the public petition that was passed by the County Assembly?

You did not get me clearly. I said that the resolution of the Assembly you are making reference to is in existence. We do not have in the bundle of your documents resolutions of the County Assembly adopting that report. That is your allegation.

Mr. Munene, I will refer you to the first paragraph. Kindly read the first and second paragraph.

Reference is made to the above mentioned subject matter. On Wednesday, 13th December, 2023, during the afternoon sitting, the Joint Committee on Labour, Public Service and Social Welfare and the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Cohesion presented and laid their response to Petition No.5 of 2023 by way of a report of their findings on the alleged gross violations of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 and other statutory laws by various County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) and Chief Officers (Cos) within the County Government of Meru to the Assembly

Mr. Munene, what is irregular about this communication by the Clerk to the petitioners because that report was laid on the Floor? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

The allegation here is on the County Secretary and Chief of Staff. This paragraph I have read does not even mention the County Secretary or the Chief of Staff.It is talking about CECMs.

Fair enough. The heading is a response to Petition No.5 of 2023, correct?

Let me read.

It is Petition No.5 of 2023, correct Mr. Munene?

Mine is not clear.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the witness is now filibustering. I leave it at that.

He just said his copy is not clear, therefore, he cannot read it. Just provide him with a clear copy, and we conclude this.

Very well. On my copy, it is Petition No. 5 of 2023. Can you see that?

Yes.

Mr. Munene, to the best of your knowledge, is that the petition that was presented by 1611 members of the public?

Sorry?

To the best of your knowledge, Mr. Munene is that the Petition that was presented by 1611 members of the public concerning all these officers including COs, and CECMs?

Yes, it is.

The County Secretary as well?

Unless I confirm.

Unless you confirm?

Yes.

I leave it at that, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Munene, I will be very brief with you. Kindly confirm that before your admission as an Advocate, you underwent rigorous training in the Advocate's Training Program, correct?

I confirm.

During that training, you must have interacted with a topic called Legal Drafting.

Legal drafting?

You must have been trained in legal drafting, correct or not correct?

Correct.

As such, I refer you to the questioned opinion by Advocate Linda. In that drafting, you are taught how to do legal documents, correct or not correct?

Correct.

For example, you are taught how to draft a letter, yes?

Yes.

Including any other legal correspondence, correct?

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You are told the characters that must appear on any legal document, yes?

Not all.

You are taught the characters that must appear on any legal document, yes, or no?

Yes.

As such, in any legal document, there must be an identification of the person drafting that document, yes?

Yes.

Kindly look at that document.

I am on it.

Does it bear the person drafting it?

Yes.

Look at where the signature is purportedly embossed or placed. Does it bear the person drafting it?

Yes, legal advisor.

No. What is the name of the person who drafted that document?

The name is not there, but the title is.

That is not there, correct?

Yes.

That is what you were taught in law school, yes?

Yes.

Thank you. Let me finally ask you one more question. You communicated to the Senate that you also act as a legal advisor, correct?

Sorry?

You said that you advised the governor in conjunction with Linda on how to deal with that issue of the CEO, correct?

Yes.

That you acted as a legal advisor, correct?

Yes.

What is your job description?

To advise the governor.

What is your constitutional job description? Are you a legal advisor or are you a CECM?

I am a CECM

Who also doubles up as a legal advisor, correct?

That is part of my---

I am asking, who also doubles up?

Yes.

So, you have two job descriptions, correct?

Part of my job description---

You have two job descriptions, correct?

Part of my job description--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You have two job descriptions, Mr. Munene?

No.

You are aware that there was a Transition Authority that was constituted that was to oversee the transition from the local governments to the county government, correct?

I am aware.

During that time of trying to formulate the county government, they issued a communique’ dated 16th of September 2013, correct?

Correct.

That document creates the offices that work under the governors’ office, yes?

Yes.

You, as a CECM, are part of what is contemplated, yes?

No. CECM is in the County Government Act. It is not in the Transition Authority.

Hon. Senators, I am looking at page 180 of that document, yes? Volume II, Page 180. Mr. Munene?

Yes.

Can you see where there is a provision for a legal advisor?

Yes.

Are you the legal advisor to the governor?

No.

Thank you. No further questions.

County Assembly, are you done with your cross- examination?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The counsel for the governor, you may re-examine your witness.

Mr. Munene, I have a few questions for you, just for clarification. Counsel for the Assembly's starting point was the governor's legal advisor.

Yes.

How many advisors does the governor have?

Three; we have a political advisor, an economic advisor, and a legal advisor.

Mr. Munene, are you among the legal advisors?

No.

You have been shown the legal advisory through an internal memo that was issued by the legal advisor. To you, is that in contention?

It is not.

As a legal practitioner, was it necessary for the name to be indicated?

Not necessary. It is an internal memo. It is legal advice, not a legal opinion, as I noted. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you. Is there an active matter in court between the said Linda Kiome and the governor?

There is.

Has that matter been determined yet?

No, it is still active.

Thank you. You were shown an affidavit by Linda Kiome. Do you have that affidavit with you?

Yes, I do.

When was the Notice of Intention to Terminate issued?

It is dated 26th March, 2024.

Was there a subsisting relationship as of December 2023, as a matter of fact?

Yes, there was.

Thank you. An insinuation or innuendo was passed that the advisor was unavailable completely. Are you in a position to confirm whether it was sporadic appearance or total shutdownunavailability?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, she was not totally unavailable. She was available, but there was a perennial absence that was noted.

Thank you for that clarification. That will be all.

She was still earning a salary, so she was still an employee of the governor. She earned a salary up until the date of the lapse of the notice. She was an employee until that 30thApril, 2024 as a legal advisor.

Thank you, Mr. Munene. That will be all for this witness.

Hon. Senators, for those who wish to seek for clarification or pose questions to the witness, this is the moment. Sen. Mumma proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have some two or three questions to the witness. The first question relates to charge No.1. Is there a difference between revocation and dismissal or removal from office? Question two, is the secretary or Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Meru County Public Service Board (CPSB) an ex-officio member or a voting member of that board? Finally, is it the practice that I can be a CEO of an institution and at the same time a holder of an office in the same institution; so, I have taken leave of absence from being an officer in order to be a CEO in the same organization? Is that part of good governance practice in human resource? I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and Hon. Members. I will start with the question on revocation and dismissal. In my opinion, which I believe is the opinion of the law, revocation is different from dismissal. An appointment is made pursuant to certain conditional precedents of qualifications. The moment the appointing authority realizes that those qualifications have not been met, they have that residual right to recall the appointment, which is technically a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

revocation. It is recalling an appointment. Dismissal is pursuant to Section 41 of the Employment Act. The other question on whether the secretary of the CPSB is an ex-officio member or a voting member; I confirm that the secretary does not have a voting right in the board. As such, she is an ex-officio Member. Article 251(1) on their removal excludes ex-officio members. It says that a member other than an ex-officio member may be removed pursuant to that provision. The secretary of the CPSB is not immune to the provision of Section 58. Lastly, it is not good governance practice for a person to take a position of a CEO and continue to be a public officer in the same institution. The court has rendered its opinion on that severally and it has indicated that you cannot freeze one position for six years, take another position, await the six years to lapse and come back and purport to continue in that previous position that you had taken.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Munene, I derive my question from the two letters that you took us through in Volume 1B of the Governor’s evidence appearing at pages 170 and 175. The first letter is dated 5th October, 2023, received on the 12th October, 2023. The second, which is of interest to me, appears at page 175, dated 6th October, 2023, and received on 5th December, 2023. In that second memo, there is a gentleman, Gitobu Tunu, who is appointed to replace Helen Bahati Matilu. Recalling your earlier letter, you indicated that the workforce within the office of the Governor and the Deputy Governor comprised 29 employees. I cannot see the name of Helen Bahati Matilu in that list of 29 employees. Could you confirm that indeed that was the position, or the communication referred to a completely different person, not within the employee of the deputy governor's personnel?

Witness, you may proceed to respond.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir, and Hon. Members. I confirm that Helen Bahati Matilu is the one that is being replaced. In the letter that appears at page 173, the last paragraph indicates that- “Whereas no request for appointment of an administrative officer was made from myself as the Chief of Staff under the governor and deputy governor, be advised that there is an administrative officer at the deputy governor's office who was deployed and has been there from 23rdFebruary, 2023.” To put this in context, the appointment for the said Helen Bahati Matilu had been revoked for not having genuine academic certificates. After the revocation, an administrative officer was deployed to the office of the deputy governor. That is what it is confirming, that from 23rd February 2023, that administrative officer was in that office.

When I heard your introductions, you said you are the County Attorney?

No.

He is the County Executive Committee Member (CECM)?

Just put the record straight. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am the CECM in charge of legal affairs, public service management and administration.

Okay, that is even better for me. There is an issue that has always caused problems for us. I just wanted to get clarification from you; the issue of public participation. As a County Attorney, I wanted you to shed some light for us. When you do public participation, do you use your professional staff as a county or it is in order for Members of County Assembly (MCAs) to conduct public participation on their own and prepare minutes? Maybe, you could refer to page 355 of volume five where minutes were taken and recorded by an MCA. I have also seen it on 340. It appears severally in the report that is before us. I want your comment on that. Then number two; look at the same bundle from page 27 all through to page 70---

Can I get the copy?

That is volume V. I am sure the lawyers will give you. There are a number of photos---

Sen. Omogeni, you had not more than two minutes. I will, under Standing Order No.1, give you one minute.

Have a look at those photos and just confirm to me whether the people who did the public participation are staff of the County Assembly or it was done by the membersof the public. Finally, I want you to respond to the issue that has been coming from courts. Public participation needs to be quantitative, qualitative and meaningful. If you go to page 463, the people who attended public participation are given as three; Page 467, three people; Page 468, nobody attended; Page 471, five people; Page 485, seven and Page 501, six. As an attorney from the county government of Meru, what would be your comment with the documents that we have where the attendance is given as three or seven people? Is that the normal practice when you do public participation?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Ordinarily, when it comes to the impeachment of a governor, public participation is carried out by the staff of the county assembly. Although, under the county government, we have a directorate of public participation and civic education, which is at the county executive. I believe, probably because of perceived conflict, the County Assembly prefers to carry out public participation using their staff. In my opinion and that of the law, there was a decision on public participation that was legalizing the Finance Act, 2023. It majorly dwelled on public participation being qualitative, quantitative. Also, there has to be a report to the parties or participants. They need to know the outcome of public participation. There are a number of pages in the document that has been computed. You will find that there are few participants like one, two or three. Others, such as the document on page 468, appears that it has not been recorded as having any participants. I believe it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

is due to the exigencies of time within which the County Assembly has to process an impeachment Motion after it has been tabled. They have to carry out public participation within seven days and also debate that Motion between seven to 10 days. So, in this particular case, public participation was allegedly carried out on the same day in the 45 wards. A notice that was given for that participation was a four-days’ notice. The reason why we have a very low turnout, I believe, partly is because of the short notice and those who decided to abstain did not support the Motion.

Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Witness, Nkanata Dixon Munene; in the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) portal, you have indicated that your workplace is Okubasu and Munene Advocates. Why is it so and yet you are a CECM appointed to serve in Meru County? Clarify that for me? Secondly is the issue of the legal advisor. Yesterday, she contested that she did not sign the legal advice or the letter that was being purported to be tabled as amemo. In her submission, she said that she needed to brief you before briefing the governor as a legal advisor. Number three; when you look at the letter by Transition Authority (TA), the governor has been given personal staff. In your affidavits, you have indicated that the governor has pushed to reduce the number of staff. However, a quick assessment in page 171 of volume 1B, the governor has four drivers, so I presume she has four vehicles and five support staff who are not indicated. Is this in line with the circular that was issued with by TA in your submission? Finally, under the same letter, all correspondence and communication should be and must be through the County Secretary. Are you the County Secretary of Meru, the CECM or the legal advisor? Clarify that because you have witnessed in letters that have not even been copied to you as the CECM in charge of Legal Affairs. I thank you.

Witness, proceed to respond.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will start with the portal that indicates that I practice in the firm of Kubaso and Munene Advocates. That was my former workplace before I joined the County Executive. I need to follow up with the LSK to make the changes. I note that they have not changed that. Two is on the issue of--- Sorry, I seem to have lost the trail of thought.

You did not get the question?

Sorry, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I did not get the other questions.

Can you give him a foolscap and a pen so that we do not go back to it? Sen. Cherarkey, just pose it again.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, quickly, on page 171 of volume 1B, is a letter that has been part of evidence in the breakdown of the Governor's personal staff. There are four drivers, so I presume there are four vehicles and five staff whose job description The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

has not been indicated. The question is; in your affidavit, you have indicated that the governor is trying to break down the wage bill. The final question was; in the same letter by the TA, all communication and correspondence should and must be through the County Secretary. So, my question is, are you the CECM, the County Secretary or the legal advisor? Who are you in Meru County? It looks like you are the king of Meru and we do not know. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Indeed, page 171, volume 1B of the Governor's document indicates that the governor has four designated drivers. I believe the Governor has three vehicles and there has to be a reliever. There is also the issue of the support staff that is as per the TA advisory, which talks of a few support staff. On the issue as to whether I am the CECM, the County Secretary or the king of Meru County; I confirm that I am the CECM not a county secretary. There is a County Secretary by the name of Dr. Kiambi Atheru.

Sen. Richard Onyonka, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just needed clarity on the charge of illegally dismissing Dr. Ntoiti. I think you are aware of that case. That also includes Paul Mwaki, Kenneth Kimathi Mbae and Joseph Kithure. Could you confirm to this House if, indeed, these officers were dismissed by the Governor? If so, what procedure did she use to dismiss them? Was there a legal procedure followed?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can confirm that the officers were not dismissed by the Governor. The dispute was that they were sent on compulsory leave by the former County Secretary. They disputed that letter sending them on compulsory leave and went to court. The court stayed the decision to send them on compulsory leave. They came back and served their term. Some of them like Dr. Ntoiti resigned after the court stayed the decision to send them on compulsory leave. Another one did not resume. The other two served their contract term until it lapsed. There is no instance or incidence of dismissal. They were never dismissed.

Proceed, Sen. Mutinda.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In regards to the letter by the legal counsel, Madam Linda who was here yesterday, indicated that this letter is just fake. In her qualifications, she cannot put the composition of the wording. I listened to you and at some point you acknowledged that the standard of this letter is not to the level of a qualified legal person. At this point, are you on the same page with Madam Linda that truly this letter looks or is fake? Secondly, there have been issues that there are no appointees in positions, for example, the chair positions in different boards. In your County Acts, it is key and mandatory to have chairpersons who form the composition of any committee. What was your legal advice to the governor for example on the County Revenue Board, which does not have a chairperson to date? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir and hon. Senators. On the letter by the legal advisor, let me make this categorical that I did not indicate the letter is fake. As to the advice given there, I do not see any mediocre or mediocrity in the legal advice given. This is advice given to a governor who does not have the background of legal knowledge. It is a simplistic letter made for the consumption of the governor. On the appointment of the County Revenue Board Chairperson, the advice that I gave the governor is that Section 6 of the County Revenue Board Act requires that the governor appoints a chairperson upon the approval of the County Assembly and two other members. The same Act indicates that in the absence of a chairperson, one of the members or the vice chairperson will take over the role of the chairperson. Indeed, the Governor forwarded three names for the chairperson and two members to the County Assembly for approval. The delay in the approval persisted and the chairperson and two other members had served their term up to 14th December when it lapsed. I advised the Governor that since the law does not strictly require the approval of these two members by the County Assembly, she can proceed and appoint the two members and leave the position of the chairperson vacant until it has been approved by the Assembly. These two members together with the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and the Chief Officer of Finance will constitute the revenue board. That way the board will run without any issues.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have followed submissions by Munene and the other witnesses. There is a very simple way of settling conflict on this legal advice. I would like the witness to submit to the House, who has custody of the original copy of the legal advice.

Witness, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We can endeavour to get the original copy from the office of the governor. I believe it is with the private secretary.

Mr. Munene, you know we have to conclude this hearing by today. You knew that there was a lot of contention that was surrounding this particular piece of legal advice. In the morning, the County Assembly counsel made an application that the original copy be produced. I ruled that it shall be handled when the team of the governor gets to the space where they will want to rely on that particular legal advice. If that legal advice is still your evidence, then it must be looked at by the hon. Senators before we close, so that wecan conclude this debate as to whether it is fake or not.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I believe that the legal team for the Governor has heard.

In the absence of the original copy, each side will settle for their own opinion.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Sen.Wambua. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want to guide you on this, but I would request that you give that as a directive. At a point that is appointed by you, the advice should be made available to us to help us make a decision.

I will not direct the team of the Governor on how best to present their case. If you feel withholding the original makes your case stronger, so be it. If you feel producing the original makes your case stronger, so be it. It is within your powers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am humbly guided by your directions and the discretion for the defense team to avail or not avail. However, I was making a humble request that in the event the same is availed, grant the County Assembly to recall that particular witness for the purpose of identification of the document.

Very well. Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am asking the witness this question again. The witness, Linda, explained clearly to the House that she was requested or directed by the Governor to work with you. Now, from my understanding, the reason I am seeking you to clarify is because working with the Minister in that department means that she was technically working under you. Can you clarify to us whether, when this legal advice was written, it was cleared by you? Were you aware of it before it left the department to go to the governor? Please clear that for us, because it might help us to know the authenticity of this letter.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was aware of this legal advice when it was sent to the governor. We discussed about this issue. Indeed, we used to work together as a team. We used to discuss issues together, especially on legal issues. We could consult with the legal advisor, severally. Most of the time when there was a legal issue that needed to be addressed; we would work together. I can confirm that when this legal advice was dispatched to the Governor, I was aware.

Hon. Senators, due to the time factor, we will terminate this witness at that. The team of the Governor, do you still have more witnesses that you want to call? You may now proceed to call the next witness.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our next witness is Evans Mawira.

Clerk, how many minutes do we have for the team of the governor, so that they can prepare themselves accordingly on how to manage that time?

The Governor's team, you have one hour and 25 minutes, not just for this witness, but for all the remaining witnesses while the County Assembly, you have 32 minutes to do your cross-examination on the remaining witnesses. Sen. Cherarkey, please proceed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence and guidance, under one minute. When CPA Ibrahim Mutwiri Kirimi, who was the County Executive Committee Member (CECM) of Finance and Economic Planning appeared, I asked a clarification question on his standing at the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK), where the membership number was 10955, and membership status is active, and status is not in good standing. However, in his submission, mark you, under Oaths and Statutory Declaration Act (Cap15), under Section 11, when you do not follow the oath that you have given, the law is punishable at that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have gone ahead and obtained from the ICPAK website, and I want to table to the house, and for the information to indicate that CPA Kirimi Ibrahim W. Mutweri was not honest by saying that he is in good standing, yet from the ICPAK website it says he is not in good standing. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to table, and maybe---

Senator for Nandi, I am afraid I may not allow you to table that document, unless you get it certified by ICPAK.

Okay.

You have just sought clarification from the witness who has just been stood down, and from the website, it still indicates that he is an associate or a partner in a law firm, whereas indicated that he left a while ago, but it is only that the information had not been updated. So, unless we get a certified copy of a document from ICPAK, indicating that particular information, I am afraid I will not allow you to table that document.

You know what to do, so you do not need to seek my permission.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are quasi -judicial proceedings. This is a professional who is being condemned without being given a chance to say his side of the story. This document would have been introduced and given to the witness when he was on the witness box. If we now produce and table it, it becomes a public document without his side of the story, we would have condemned him unheard.

Well, if it was certified, I would not mind recalling the witness, so that he has a chance to also explain his side, but downloading from the website is not good enough. Counsel, you may proceed with your witness.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Witness. Confirm your full names and the position you hold within Meru County.

As I have stated, my name is Evans Mawira Kaaria. I represent a ward called Mitunguu Ward, in South Imenti, Meru County. I am also a second-term serving Member of County Assembly (MCA), and I am the immediate former Leader of Majority of the County Assembly of Meru, of the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) Party in the Assembly. I was also the Mover of the last impeachment Motion that was prosecuted in this Hon. Senate, where it was deemed that all the accounts were unsubstantiated.

Thank you, Mr. Witness. You have sworn an affidavit that you have produced before the Senate. Confirm that it is the one appearing at page 36 of volume I of the Governor's response. Confirm that that is your affidavit.

I do confirm.

Attached to your affidavit is also authority to swear, where several Members of the County Assembly of Meru have given you authority to plead and swear this affidavit on their behalf. Can you confirm that?

I do confirm that 17 Members are given the authority to plead on their behalf.

Hon. Senators, that document appears on the last page, just after page 50. It is not paginated, but it should be page 51. Just after page 50, there is authority to swear that has been attached to the affidavit. Confirm that you have the authority of all these Members of County Assembly to stand here and offer evidence on their behalf, and if that is the case, why do you have that authority?

I confirm that members who have appended their signatures have given me the authority. This is because, it is a large number that could not appear here in the Senate to testify or be witnesses.

Thank you. You have also alluded to the fact that you were the Mover of the previous Motion for impeachment against the Governor of Meru. Confirm that that is the Motion that has been attached to volume II of the Governor's response.

I do confirm.

We sat here yesterday, Mr. Witness, and watched the Mover of the current Motion, Zipporah Kinya. Do you know of her relationship with the previous Motion for impeachment, and what kind of relationship is there?

Yes, I know Hon. Zipporah Kinya, the Mover of the present Motion well. She played a key role in drafting the previous Motion and collecting evidence. She also sat down in the small team that finally came up with the Motion that was brought in the previous impeachment Motion in the Senate. Hon. Zipporah Kinya also took the position of the Deputy Majority Leader due to the fact that once I decided to support the Governor, I was removed from that position.

We are heading there, Mr. Witness. For now, confirm that indeed you took the Motion for impeachment last year from the Mover of the Motion.That it was indeed her Motion, but you took it from her. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Is that the position?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not take the Motion from her. After a small team sat down, it was decided that the Motion be Moved by the Leader of Majority then. That is how it became my Motion.

So, it is your evidence then that the instructions to move the impeachment Motion last year was a party position?

Yes.

By party position, what party are you referring to and at what level?

The UDA Party and the leadership at the county level. Before we moved that Motion, the then Secretary General of the UDA Party had called and told me that was not to be prosecuted as the position of the UDA Party, but the leadership at the county level insisted that it was a UDA Party affair at the county level.

The Governor was here last year and she is here again this year. Her defence has always been that she is being targeted by the political leadership of Meru County. Having participated in the impeachment process last year and now participating in this process again, but on her side, would you care to shed light on whether you are aware of any political influence from the political leadership of Meru, and if so, what kind of influence is there?

That is the position. Maybe, Mr. Speaker, Sir, you can allow me to give a little narration of how we came up with the second Impeachment Motion. After political leaders in Meru felt that the Governor had gone rogue, MCAs were mobilized based on party lines. The first party to do that was the UDA Party. I was called by the UDA county coordinator for a meeting. In that meeting which I attended with the County Assembly Majority Whip of the UDA Party, we met with the Chairperson of MPs caucus, one Hon. Rindikiri, who is also a UDA member and Sen. Kathuri Murungi, who is the Senator for Meru County. We made a decision that we had to communicate to other UDA members that it was the position of the party at that moment that we had to withdraw all the support for the Governor within and without the County Assembly, and that we were to introduce a new impeachment Motion by calling all MCAs who belonged to the UDA Party. We communicated the same and issued a press conference to that effect. Other parties followed suit. They included Jubilee Party, the National Ordinary People Empowerment Union (NOPEU) Party, the Bus Party, and the Democratic Party of Kenya (DP). All the County Assembly parties issued the same directive that Members were to support the impeachment of the governor that we brought to this Senate in the last impeachment Motion.

Thank you. Kindly give us the composition of party membership within the Meru County Assembly. How many Members are there from each of the political parties?

Meru County Assembly is comprised of 69 Members; that is 45 elected and 24 nominated Members. The largest party is the UDA The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Party with a small margin of the majority at 21. The minority is the Bus Party with 20 Members. The Jubilee Party has got 11 Members. We also have PNU, NOPEU, DP and independent Members.

Is it your testimony that all these political parties were united in the quest to remove the Governor of Meru County?

That is true.

We also watched the Mover of the current impeachment Motion on television saying that it is the business of Meru County Assembly to impeach the Governor, and I was quick to translate the use of the word “business” into Kiswahili Language; “ biashara ”, connoting that there was monetary benefit by people who participate in the impeachment of the governor. Are you aware of any monetary incentives by people who either support or reprimand for any person who does not support the Impeachment Motion?

It is true that MCAs benefit financially during impeachment processes. Since I am under oath, it was during the first Impeachment Motion that was defeated in this Senate that there was no inducement. During the second one, there was a lot of inducement. I believe there is a lot of inducement even for this one. Those who have not been in support of the impeachment Motion have severely suffered in the hands of the Assembly.

Let us talk about the incentive that you are talking about. What nature are those incentives and where do they come from?

For example, now that we are here for these proceedings, Members have been facilitated for more than five days to be in Nairobi where they draw per diems and Daily Subsistence Allowances (DSAs). I am also aware that during this process, Members were put in a common area where they were held---

Before you proceed, Hon. Zipporah was here yesterday and I posed that question to her and she denied categorically that none of the MCAs of Meru is earning allowances for this process. Are you saying that she lied and that you have received allowances during the last impeachment and you have received the same for this one?

Yes, because we are facilitated by the County Assembly to be in Nairobi for around five days, where we received DSAs and per diems .

How much do you receive as MCA whenever you appear at the Senate for impeachment proceedings?

According to the circular by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC), whenever Members are out of a county headquarters, they draw Kshs14,000 as DSA. Even here in Nairobi, they draw Kshs14,000. They are also facilitated with transport from and back to Meru.

Does the County Assembly facilitate all the 69 MCAs?

Not always, unless there is a common course. That is when maybe---

I am asking about the impeachment processes that you are aware of; that is the second and third which, was held last November and this one. Does the County Assembly facilitate all MCAs? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

During the second impeachment, only Members who were in support are the ones who were facilitated. For this one, they sent messages to everybody indicating that we should be in Nairobi for the Senate proceedings for about five days.

My understanding of the workings of county assemblies is that you are only entitled to allowances if you are out on official duties and for a specific purpose. Under what vote do you get these allowances?

Sorry?

Under what vote do you get these allowances?

Domestic Travel. It is actually Domestic Travel and Accommodation.

For all MCAs?

Yes.

I want to refer you to page 382, volume II of the County Assembly’s documents. Tell us the amount of expenses under Domestic Travel. Are you at page 382 of volume II of the County Assembly’s documents?

Yes, I am there.

How much is indicated as having been utilised under Domestic Travel? Have you identified that? Perhaps we can move as we look for it at page 272 of volume 1B. Tell us; what was the Auditor-General’s comment on the County Assembly’s expense? I am at page 272 of Volume 1B. Are you able to see that?

Yes.

Has the Auditor-General flagged impeachment as a project of the county?

It is flagged as an activity of the County Assembly of Meru, Motions for the impeachment of the Governor of Meru County; two Motions for the two impeachment attempts.

Would the Auditor-General flag a project if it had no monetary implication to the taxpayer?

No, because it should marry the financial statement, so it indicates that there was some monetary implication in that activity.

Have you now found page 382, volume two of the County Assembly? Tell us the expenses involved within the Meru County Assembly.

The County Assembly spent Kshs35.50 million on committee sitting allowances for the 68 Members of County Assembly (MCAs) against an annual budget allocation of Kshs71.36 million. The average monthly sitting allowance was Kshs57,063,000 and the County Assembly has established 27 committees.

Thank you. As I move to the next issue, confirm that each MCA that was in support of the Motion last year, walked away with at least Kshs80,000 as facilitation from the taxpayer and that they are likely to walk away with the same amount this year?

That one I confirm, because the Daily Subsistence Allowance (DSA) paid was for five days and the transport allowance of Kshs10,000. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

If we were to look at the 49 MCAs that are in support of this Motion, times Kshs80,000, that would be around Kshs4 million?

Yes, on average.

Let us proceed to the next issue. When we were in Senate last year, in November, you lost the impeachment Motion, correct?

Yes. All the counts were not substantiated.

Tell us what transpired immediately when you lost the Motion. Were there any reconciliatory efforts from your side? By your side I mean, the MCAs that were in support of the impeachment Motion.Were there any efforts to reconcile with the Governor and have a working relationship with her?

There were none and immediately we lost the impeachment Motion, the following day we met in a hotel in Nairobi, where all the 59 Members and the Speaker of the Assembly who were in support of the impeachment Motion together with the deputy governor and hon. Mpuri Aburi came together. In that meeting, it was deliberated that Members should be taken for a retreat to freshen up and maybe relax.

Do you recall the name of the hotel where you attended and you had this meeting?

Yes, Sunstar Hotel in Nairobi.

Sunstar Hotel in Nairobi?

Yes.

You confirmed that meeting took place the following day after you lost the impeachment Motion?

That is true.

What were the resolutions of that meeting?

I was just stating that it was agreed that the Assembly facilitates members for a retreat, for members to go and relax and freshen up maybe after the vigorous impeachment process that they had undertaken.

The retreat was in addition to the Kshs80,000 that each of you had pocketed?

No, it was a new retreat that members had ----

I am saying it was in addition to what you had already pocketed.

Yes, in addition to.

Okay, proceed.

We agreed that we will be facilitated for a whole week and we went to Mombasa for a whole week where we were facilitated along Committee lines. Therefore, members who had been de-whipped from Committees were not participants. We did the Committee work for two days and for the rest of the days we sat down to organize and plan on how to sabotage the government, so that it does not work. That is the time when it was agreed that a Petition be introduced in the County Assembly to try and impeach--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Mawira, you are using very strong terms here. Is it your evidence that the MCAs at taxpayers' expense went to Mombasa and planned on how to sabotage the Governor and you are saying that on oath?

That is my evidence and I want to say to this Hon. Senate, that is when it was agreed that a petition be introduced in the County Assembly petitioning that all the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) for the County Government of Meru, Chief Officer, the County Secretary and Chief of Staff be impeached, so that the government can be sabotaged and does not function because we had already lost the impeachment Motion.

What Petition is that you are talking about and was that resolution ever acted upon, to the best of your knowledge?

It was acted upon because immediately we went back to Meru, a Petition was brought to the Assembly, requesting that the County Assembly conduct an investigation on around seven CECMs, think three Chief Officer the County Secretary and the Chief of Staff. That culminated to a report of the Joint Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs Committee (JLAC) recommending the impeachment or the removal from office of the County Secretary and the Chief of Staff and also give the MCAs freedom or they were at liberty to introduce impeachment Motions for three CECMs and that was tabled in the Assembly.

I want you to look at pages 90 to 145 of the County Assembly's documents. That is page 92 of volume two of the County Assembly's documents. Can you take us to the place where you now term as the evidence of the resolution that was arrived at in Mombasa of impeaching or rather sabotaging, in your own words, the governor's government by impeaching the CECMs? It is at page 90 of the county government's exhibits.

This one is the exhibit for the governor.

I will retrieve it shortly. As we retrieve that, confirm what transpired in actuation of that resolution.

I confirm that the Petition was brought to the Assembly. It was committed to a Joint Committee of JLAC and also the Labor Committee. The resolutions or the recommendations of the Committee came back that, three CECMs ---

Before we proceed, hon. Senators, I am referring to volume four of the County Assembly's bundle of documents at page 90 to 145. Mr. Witness, when I look at that Petition, it is signed by the members of the public. What relationship is there between these members of public or petitioners and the MCAs?

That is on page?

Pages 90 to 145, volume IV.

Yes, the Petition is signed by the members of the public, but in that meeting it was agreed that the MCAs look for friendly members of the public, who can introduce the Petition and one is a perennial Petitioner in the Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

He is Salesio Mutuma, who has signed that Petition and has introduced more than 20 or 30 Petitions in that Assembly.

Is it your evidence, then, that these petitioners were procured by the MCAs for the purposes of appearing as if it was the public behind the impeachments?

I have stated so.

That is your evidence?

Yes.

How soon after the first impeachment was that Petition brought before the Assembly?

In less than a month.

Was there any other resolution by the MCAs to frustrate Her Excellency's government and if so, in what way?

It was also agreed that we have to support the Government through the budget making process. Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) agreed that they will do an itemised budget despite the fact that the County Government has always prepared an itemised budget. They also did an allocation to their respective wards at that point.

I am having serious problems, Mr. Witness, to fathom that Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) would sit and scheme against the Executive. Are you sure of your evidence? Do you really want to go on record as a witness of events that really transpired?

That is very true. Members were very bitter because, initially, they had been assured that the Governor of Meru County was going home.

Who had assured them? You are talking of assurance.

The political class of leaders, especially those at the national level that come from Meru County.

I want you to say that again for record purposes. If you are capable, you can mention names of people you know were giving that kind of assurance.

I am saying---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I do not like objecting, perhaps it would be important that the witness limits himself to the evidence before the Senate, so that he does not open a pandora’s box and goes on a fishing expedition by mentioning names that will not be brought before you or us for cross-examination or examination. That line will greatly prejudice our case, unless we are assured that the names that shall be put on record will be made available for further examination. I am most obliged.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may respond to that issue. It is the Governor's case. That she is a victim of political witch-hunt by the political leadership in Meru County. Those facts have been alluded to in the affidavit of the witness. We have a next video evidence, which we will play. It is only fair for the Counsel to allow me conclude on that issue, unless I am touching on a live nerve that he is aware of.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you may allow me to respond.

Counsel for the County Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Just take your seat. Yesterday, I gave you some latitude because the Counsel for the Governor rose on a point of order on the same issue. However, I gave you latitude so that we run this smoothly. Kindly allow the Governor to present her case the best way she knows how. Having said that, Counsel for the Governor, do not veer so far from what is already before us by bringing very new material, which then will not enable the Counsel for the County Assembly to respond adequately. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will be pursuing that line shortly. Mr. witness, it is your testimony that you had been assured that the Governor would indeed go home.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Immediately after the first Impeachment Motion came to this honourable Senate and all the charges were still unsubstantiated, we went back to Meru. The President of this country, His Excellency, Dr. William Samoei Ruto and the Deputy President initiated a reconciliation between the Assembly and the Executive. The team from the Meru County Assembly led by the Speaker and the team from the Meru County Executive led by the Governor, stayed at the office of the Deputy President for three days. We resolved all the matters that had brought us to the first impeachment Motion. Therefore, when we went back to Meru from February, we had a cordial working relationship between the Executive and the Assembly. That is the time that the Assembly approved budgets for the School Feeding Programme, the One-Cow-One Family Programme and so many others. However, immediately the political class sat down and maybe felt that the governor had gone rogue, they started mobilising MCAs, insinuating to us that it was time to remove the Governor from the office. Many MCAs were reluctant because initially they had a good working relationship with the Governor. However, we were mobilised along the political party lines. That is when we were assured that this time, the Governor of Meru County will not come back to Meru as the governor.

Thank you. You have alluded to a meeting that took place at Mombasa and another meeting that was convened in Nanyuki after one month.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Kindly explain to us what transpired in Nanyuki. If you can remember, who attended that meeting, what was the agenda and what were the resolutions?

Just before Christmas when the news for the famous blogger, Sniper, started circulating that he was missing, the MCAs were facilitated to go to Nanyuki for committee work. After finishing the Committee work, 59 members who had supported the impeachment process were left for a meeting, which was attended by all the Members of Parliament (MPs) from Meru County, the former Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development, excluding the Senator only. All The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

the other political class was there. We were asked to remain united, so that the cause that we had just lost, be brought back at a later date by June, 2024 and surely win.

What cause is this that you are being urged to continue pursuing?

It was impeaching the Governor of Meru County.

Did at any time the political class within Meru County preach peace, unity and you having a working relationship with the Governor of Meru County? Did they do that at any moment?

At no point did anybody talk about reconciliation or peace.

How was this meeting that took place in Nanyuki facilitated?

It was facilitated by the Assembly through committees. After the meeting ended, we were given Kshs20,000 and told that it was for Christmas.

Who gave you the Kshs20,000?

The Speaker shared it among MCAs. Of course, it was from the political class that attended.

By Speaker, you mean which speaker?

The Speaker of the County Assembly of Meru.

Yes, we are in a Senate, which has a Speaker.

Certainly, it cannot be me, Counsel.

I wanted to drive that on record, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you for that clarification. It was the Speaker of County Assembly of Meru.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. How many MCAs were in Nanyuki for the retreat?

For the committee, all the 69 MCAs were there. However, the meeting had 59 MCAs only, who had supported the impeachment process for the Governor.

So, each of the 59 MCAs got Kshs20,000 from the Speaker?

Yes.

Might you know where that money had come from?

It was not disclosed, but we were told it was a Christmas gift from the political leaders who were there at that time. I stated that all the Members of National Assembly from Meru County were there, in the exclusion of the Senator only. The Women Representative and the former Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development was in that meeting.

You are talking about the political leadership across the political divide, and not just one political party? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Yes, across the political parties of the political divide.

Were you given any timelines or specifics on how you would prosecute the resolution that had been arrived at?

Of course, we gave all the plans we reached out in Mombasa, and then we were told to forge ahead with them. The impeachment process of the Governor was to be reintroduced on or around June, 2024.

You have talked about other ways of frustrating Her Excellency's Government. What other ways were agreed upon, if any, on how you would frustrate the Governor of Meru County?

The main agreement was to sabotage the Government of Meru County through the budget-making process, including the County Annual Development Plan (CADP) and the County Fiscal Strategy Paper (CFSP) going onwards. In addition to that, it was agreed that there were programmes that were being undertaken by the County Government of Meru that were making the Governor very popular on the ground and, therefore, had to be stopped. There was the school feeding programme for ECDE learners and the One-Cow-One-needy family programme that were being carried out by the County Government of Meru.

Is it your evidence that MCAs schemed to have the ECDE school feeding programme scrapped for the sole purpose of sabotaging the Governor’s governance within the County?

Yes, and it indeed happened in the Assembly where the Committee on Agriculture tabled a report and declared that there was no policy for the One-Cow-One-needy family programme and it was halted. The school feeding programme was also halted by the same Assembly.

Hon. Mawira, MCAs of the Meru County Assembly are public officers, paid by taxpayers. How does it make you feel that you are part of a scheme to frustrate the very mwananchi that has elected you to the public office, to the extent of scrapping the feeding of poor children, just for political gain? What does it also say about the County Assembly of Meru?

It is very unfortunate and regrettable that public servants can sit down and try to sabotage the same wananchi who had voted for them. It also shows the level of desperation or the lows the County Assembly of Meru can go to so as to remove from office, Governor Kawira Mwangaza.

Yesterday, there was a clip that was played here in the Senate and there was one vocal gentleman. The mover of the Motion said that gentleman is not a leader within the Meru County. Do you recall that?

The clip can be played again.

Can we watch VKM13? Mr. Speaker, Sir, we may need an interpreter of the Meru language on standby, with your indulgence.

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly usher in the translator.

Let us watch VKM13.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

The interpreter is here. We can proceed with the clip.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my name is Muthengi Mpara. I am from the Mwago FM, KBC. “We are begging you to support us. This time round, we do not want many stories. We want to be very simple. We will go to the Senate. Kathuri, I know you are there, our Senator, tutaleta huyo mama huko . This time round, hata sisi mtatuona kamawamama. Akitoa kitambaa, tunatoa. If she cries, we will also cry as women from the County. We, as the County Assembly of Meru, are determined to help you at whatever cost. Some of us have even made a decision.”

Just interpret the Kimeru part only. We understand Kiswahili and English.

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We can proceed with the clip uninterrupted when it is in Kiswahili or English .

Kindly, can we get back a little. I can see that we have several hon. Members, like Hon. Munya and others. Kindly do not disrupt the process and do not take us round. Please rewind the video clip a bit.

Mr. interpreter, kindly be attentive, we are losing time.

“Just prepare yourselves, it is you who will help us. Do not let us down. Considering we are men, we can sit down and talk like elders. Therefore, we have heard what you have said with our ears.”

I request the translator to remain by with your permission, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Mawira, kindly explain to us if you are aware of the venue of this meeting, who were in attendance and what was being said. Most importantly, who is the gentleman who spoke first?

It was in a burial in a certain part of the Igembe region where majority of the MCAs who were supporting the impeachment process were there. There were also other leaders there, including the former Governor, Hon. Peter Munya and the then Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture, Hon. Mithika Linturi and our beloved Senator was also there. The first gentleman who spoke is called Mwendia Muguna alias Alhaji who is the Secretary General for the Mbus Party for the County of Meru. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

The mover of the Motion was here yesterday and said that gentleman, Alhaji, is not a leader of any political party in Meru. What would your evidence be?

He is the Secretary General for the Mbus Party in Meru County. Previously, he served in the government of Governor Kiraitu as the Director of Events and in 2013, he was a nominated MCA by the Mbus Party in the County Assembly of Meru.

Briefly, what transpired in that meeting, what were the resolutions and what were the pleas by the various speakers?

The plea from the various speakers we have seen from that video was for the continuation of the removal of the Governor of Meru from office through impeachment.

Did you get any response to the pleas from the people speaking?

Yes, the MCAs and the crowd that was there applauded at those pleas.

There is a certain lady in that clip whom we have just heard say that; we will go to the Senate and take that woman, and this time round, we will take a woman who will also cry.Who is that person uttering those words?

That is a Member of the County Assembly (MCA) of Meru, nominated by the Mbus Party. She was indicating that because the Governor is a woman and maybe the Senate saves the Governor because of her gender, then the next impeachment process will be initiated by a woman, so that when they come to the Senate if the Governor sheds tears, she also shed tears for the Senate to sympathize with them.

Is it then a surprise that this impeachment Motion was brought by a woman?

It was not a surprise at all.

Is it part of the scheme, or was it just a coincidence?

It is part of the scheme and the machinations behind the impeachment of Governor Kawira Mwangaza.

Let us watch ZKM-12 from the Governor's exhibit of videos.

We can pause there and have the translator tell us what he has just said.

“I am the Secretary-General for the Bus Party.”

So that gentleman introduces himself in the capacity that he holds. Is that so, Mr. Witness?

Yes, that is true.

Thank you. Let us proceed.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

We can pause and have the translator.

Finally, I am very excited now that Maua is not paying the cess or the tax.

No one is going to pay anymore. Even those metals should be sold like scrap metals.

Those metals over there should be sold like scrap metals.

We are going to advertise. We are going to say that there is nowhere that tax will be collected anymore.

We will never give out our money to be used for corruption in the Senate.

Mr. Witness, you have confirmed that this gentleman is the Secretary General of the Mbus Party at the county level.

In fact, he stated the same himself in that clip.

Where was this event, what was taking place and who was in attendance, if you are aware?

It was held at Kinoru Stadium in Meru during a requiem mass for the late Sniper. MCAs were present. Other leaders also from the National Assembly were present and members of the public.

Hon. Kingi): What is your intervention, Sen. M. Kajwang’? Certainly, it cannot be a point of order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was an inconsistency between the verbal interpretation and whatever we saw written on the screen, particularly within that clip that relates to bribe of the Senate. The interpreter did not mention bribe, but the transcript on the screen mentioned bribe. Could that be made clear?

Hon. Kingi): Can you play that clip again? And Mr. Interpreter?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Kingi): You know the Meru language very well?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Kingi): Then give us the true translation.

Alright, thank you.

You can play to the very end. The very end, I think the last few seconds.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I am very excited now that Maua is not paying cess or taxes to the government. We are not going to pay any more. Even those metals should be sold like scrap metals. Those metals over there should be sold like scrap metals. We are going to announce that there is nowhere that tax will be collected to give out our money to go and bribe the Senate.

Thank you. We can pause there. I think for the sake of Sen. M. Kajwang,' that is now clear. Mr. Witness, the---

Is it now clear, Senator for Homa Bay? Did you get it?

In the first instance, the translator used the word to “corrupt” the Senate. In the second instance, he used the word to “bribe” the Senate. Perhaps, I will leave it to the Senators to confirm whether those are synonyms.

You know, English and Meru sometimes can vary drastically.

Indeed, I can confirm that. So, the gentleman is talking about selling some metals as scrap. What metals is he referring to?

It is the cess fund which is used to collect revenue for the Meru County Government.

So, he is inciting members of the public not to pay revenue and to even destroy public property.

That is true.

Why is he telling them to do that?

He is alluding that the revenue collected by the County Government of Meru is used to bribe the Senate during impeachment processes.

Thank you. Can we now watch VKM18 from the beginning?

The body of Sniper is over there. For the one who has cash--- Those who got that cash should bring to the bishop here. Bishop, can you stand? Get a place you can receive that cash. We should drop that cash over there.

We can stop there for now. Mr. Witness, where was this event and who are the people that we have just watched in that video so far?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that was another requiem mass for the late Sniper held at Kinoru Stadium. The speakers who have already been shown in that clip are Hon. Rindikiri, Member of Parliament (MP) for Buuri Constituency. We have also seen another Hon. Member from Igembe Constituency and the Speaker of the Meru County Assembly.

What role was the Speaker playing in this event? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is passing the microphone to one Alaji Mwendia Muguna. Therefore, I think he was the Master of Ceremonies (MC) of that event.

We have seen something about sadaka for a Pay bill and some other forms. Kindly explain what you understood.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was money being raised for the late Sniper's family. The Speaker is stating that money can be raised through the Pay bill number provided. He also states that whoever has cash can hand it over to the bishop for the same purpose.

Was cash raised during the event to the best of your understanding; not through the Pay bill? Was cash raised because we see him giving bishop that task of collecting cash? Was there any cash?

Of course, because it was in a public meeting, there ought to have been cash that was raised in that meeting.

We have also heard utterances by one person directed to the Governor. Who is that individual?

I did not capture that.

There is an individual talking about the murder of Sniper and saying that they are going to light fire within Meru County.

Yes, he is a political activist in Meru County.

Thank you. Let us proceed and watch the remaining part of the video.

Thank you. I do not know whether you want to make any comments in respect to that video, but I felt that it is self-explanatory.

I do not wish to comment because it is regrettable, and the words are self-explanatory.

Mr. Mawira, kindly, in very few minutes, talk about the Governor's efforts. Thank you for the indication of time. Tell us any efforts that you are aware of that the Governor of Meru County made to reconcile with leaders, if any, and what role you played. The assumption has been that the Governor is a lone-ranger who does not work with any Member of County Assembly (MCA) and other political leaders within Meru County.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in fact, immediately after the second impeachment failed in the Senate, the Governor went back to Meru County and made a clarion call that let all leaders come together and unite. She made a call for reconciliation and also asked for forgiveness if she had wronged any leader in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Meru. Thereafter, the Governor went ahead and stopped Okolea programmes, which had aggrieved MCAs. She also tried to reach out to me, as the Leader of the Majority Party at that time. I heeded to the call and went and listened to her carefully. She told me the plans she had of inviting all the MCAs to come and work together with her. At that moment, I asked her to give me time as the Leader of the Majority Party to go try to reach out to other Members, so that maybe she could organize a meeting with them and try to bring reconciliation. After I left, I reached out to other MCAs, and they all, especially the leadership of the Assembly, declined to attend a meeting with the Governor. Once I communicated that message back to her, she asked me if she could make our efforts about reaching out, public and state that we had met and I agreed because I was convinced about her genuineness at that time. She went ahead and made that remark that the Majority Leader of the Meru County Assembly had agreed to reconcile and work with her. Immediately thereafter, a meeting was convened by the Majority Whip of the County Assembly, together with the Speaker for the 59 members who were in support of the impeachment process. During the meeting, I was tasked to explain if I was still for the cause of removing the Governor from office because of the statement that the Governor had made. If so, I should apologize to the members because I intended to maybe bring disunity or disarray to their cause. At that point, I stood up and told them that a time had come for every MCA to be given freedom to exercise their democratic right of either to support Governor Kawira Mwangaza or to oppose her. I walked out of that meeting because I declined to apologize or tell them if I was for that cause. Immediately after, a press conference was issued led by the Majority Whip, where they declared they had to do some alignments in the leadership positions of the County Assembly, so that the business of the Assembly would not be disrupted by leaders who had abandoned that cause. Madam Temporary Speaker, at that point, because that was a press conference that was covered nationally, the then Secretary General (SG) of the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) party nationally, Hon. Cleophas Malala, wrote a letter to me and the Whip indicating that there should be no leadership changes in the positions of the Majority Party. He also invited us for a meeting that we attended in Nairobi City County. During that meeting, majority of Members said that the problem of Meru County was the Majority Leader. It is at that point that I was removed as the Majority Leader of the Majority party in the County Assembly. Other changes were also made and the Deputy Majority Whip was also removed because we were all in support of the Governor of Meru County.

Thank you. Have you adduced any evidence to support that you involved your party leadership at the national level and that they gave a clear direction that was ignored?

Yes, I have adduced evidence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I refer you to pages 470 of volume 1B of the Governor's Case, all the way to page 491. We can go all the way to page 500 indicating the complaints by the MCAs who are in support of the Governor and are being victimised for their move. For the sake of time, I will just leave the Senators to refer to those documents. Mr. Mawira, what transpired after your removal from the County Assembly? Who took over your position?

My position was taken by the Member who was formerly my deputy, while that of the Deputy was taken by the Mover of the current Motion, Hon. Zipporah. You remember, during the second impeachment Motion, the Governor had only 10 Members and when I was tasked to stay for the cause, I walked out and the other two Members followed me, so we became 13. Immediately after the changes were made and communicated in the Assembly, the leadership of the County Assembly of Meru went further ahead and de-whipped the 13 of us from three key select committees, that is, the Committee on Budget and Appropriations, Public Accounts Committee and Implementation Committee. Thereafter, every person of the 13 who held a leadership position in any of the Committees of the Assembly, was removed from those positions through a vote of no confidence. Therefore, members lost the chairmanship and vice chairmanship of committees. Also, those who served in the Speaker's Panel initially were removed. The Speaker's Panel was then expanded to 18 members, so that it can incorporate more members out of the 56, who are not earning any responsibility allowance in that Assembly.

I want you to clarify that issue of expanding the Speaker's Panel. What was the initial number of members of the Speaker's Panel?

The initial number that the Assembly had approved was 11 members. However, in our Standing Orders, the members of the Speaker's Panel should be five; that is, the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker and three other members. It was still expanded to 18 members so that it could take care of members who were not earning any responsibility allowance and were in opposition to the Governor.

When you talk about the Speaker's Panel, what kind of allowances, if any, do they draw?

Of course, when you serve in the Speaker's Panel, you draw some responsibility allowance and also benefit from training, capacity building, skills improvement and what have you.

You said the maximum number of members allowed as per the Standing Orders is four?

Yes.

How much money are we losing as taxpayers for the expanded Speaker's Panel in your estimation?

In my estimation, every Member who serves in the Speaker's Panel draws around Kshs26,000 or Kshs27,000 every month as a responsibility allowance. They also have special meetings that they draw allowances from and, of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

course, they do benefit from Daily Subsistence Allowances (DSAs) and per diems when they attend trainings and capacity-building workshops.

Let us look at page 262 of volume 1B. There lies the report of the Auditor-General confirming, indeed, that 18 members of the County Assembly of Meru have been included in the Speaker's Panel for the purpose of drawing allowances. Are you able to see that?

The one on that page was before the expansion of the Committee that was composed of 11 members.

Yes, proceed.

Later, it was expanded to 18 members and it is indeed true that they draw benefits from taxpayers’ money.

Thank you. In your assessment, what does that communicate about the County Assembly of Meru?

It clearly shows that the County Assembly, especially, the leadership was going to any length to make sure that no single MCA would support the Governor because of the victimisation, intimidation and, of course, the financial losses that that member was undergoing.

Thank you. For the sake of time, I want to conclude. You have alleged that you were not able to exercise your oversight role at the County Assembly during the impeachment process. Is that the case? How many other Members of the County Assembly were not allowed to exercise their mandate?

That is true because, in the first instance, we were denied entrance into the Chambers by strangers. Later, the Serjeant-at-Arms also---

Can we watch Video VKM20?

Pause there, thank you. Could you explain to us what is happening and which day this was?

That was the day when the impeachment Motion was being prosecuted. When the third impeachment Motion was introduced in the Assembly, 10 members out of the 56 who were left opposing the Governor felt that it was not right for us to continue with the in-fights between the Assembly and the Executive. They then joined the 13 of us who were in support of the Governor. However, three Members were intimidated and left the cause. So, we were left with a number of 20 members. So, on that day when the impeachment Motion was being prosecuted in the Assembly, we came in as a team and there was an attempt to deny us entry to the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Chambers, so that we could prosecute that Motion. Also, the process was rushed and most of us who were in support of the Governor, especially me, were denied a chance to contribute to that Motion.

Thank you. Previously, through your video of VKM10, which we may not have time to play, you alleged that you were also excluded from crucial meetings of the county, where the MCAs were taken for retreats and other meetings and you are not involved.

It is true? I wish that clip can be played.

VKM10 kindly.

We can have the translation quickly, so that you can understand.

Kindly, can we play now? Restart.

Let us meet here as Meru Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) who support the Governor.

--- because others went to Mombasa for 15 days---

---and we were denied to go with them.

They said they were going for a training---

--- but we are having questions on the kind of training are they going to?

Thank you, we can proceed to where the current witness is speaking for the sake of time.

We do not know how it was planned because if it was about all MCAs---

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

--- there are no MCAs who are of two sides.

There is no difference between an MCA who was elected and the one nominated.

They are all Meru MCAs.

However, when we are trying to ask the County Clerk---

--- he is saying that he was given instructions.

After a kind of a discussion was done---

---he was advised---

You can stop there. Mr. Witness, what had happened during this event?

The 56 MCAs at that time who were in support of the opposition for the Governor had been facilitated for 15 days training in Mombasa. They were taken through the budget making process. The 13 of us were left out without a single explanation, simply because we were supporting the Governor of Meru.

Is it your evidence that you have been punished and targeted for supporting the Governor?

We have been punished, ridiculed, intimidated and threatened because we decided to support the Governor of Meru. That is true.

Does the Governor have any working relationship with other groups within the County?

Of course. It is true that she has a working relationship with other groups like religious leaders, women groups, factions of the Njuri Ncheke, among many other groups.

Let us briefly watch VKM14.

Counsel, if I may interrupt you. You have less than 15 minutes and I see on the list that you still need to call three other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

witnesses, including the Governor. Will you be able to manage that within the 15 minutes?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a very crucial witness for us. I will only take the next three minutes with him then we reserve the remaining minute for one more witness who is the Governor. We will drop the others.

Very well, proceed.

Thank you. Mr. Mawira, can we watch VKM14?

We can proceed just for a few more minutes.

We can now stop there. We will play it shortly, but, Mr. Witness, tell us your summary of the charges that are before this Senate. You have time to go through the Motion of impeachment now and back then in 2023. What are the basis of these charges?

Since I have been present in that Assembly since the first impeachment process, I would like to tell the hon. Senators that the impeachment process has been abused in the Assembly and has been weaponized to fight political fights. Whereas, we know that impeachment should be used sparingly, it should be a measure of the last resort whenever there are violations of the Constitution and other laws. Therefore, it is my humble submission that the Senate vindicate the Governor of Meru from the objectivity of the charges that are there. According to me, the charges are malicious and frivolous in nature.

We have specific charges. One of the charges is employing a bloated workforce. Was that a charge that you brought before the Senate in the last impeachment?

It was.

You have a charge that accuses the Governor of dismissing certain employees of boards, one of them being Mr. Mwaki. Is that a charge that you brought and prosecuted before the Senate during the last motion?

It was part of the Motion.

There is a specific charge where the Governor is accused of misconduct by stating that Kshs86 million was raised in support of the burial of the blogger, Mr. Sniper. What would you say about that specific charge?

Since I was privy to whatever was happening during the demise of blogger Muthiani, the Governor did not allude to a specific collection of money because there were several fundraisers that were held in support of that family.

Are you aware of any other forms of fundraising that were done? Did you participate in any yourself? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Yes, I participated in the one that was conducted by MCAS, where initially each of the 59 Members who were then opposing the Governor contributed Kshs1,000. Later, we contributed Kshs10,000 each for the same. Additionally, other political leaders contributed to that course.

By political leaders, who are you referring to and in your estimation how much money was raised? Sorry to ask this. What is the status of that kitty, if you are aware of, and how was it utilised?

The one for the Assembly was utilised by conducting roadshows across Meru County. Other monies were used to hold prayers in various stadia such as Kinoru, Maua and others. By the time I left that group where the fundraising was being held, the remainder of the money had not been accounted for.

So, when the Governor states that Kshs86 million might have been raised, is it anywhere near the truth, in your estimation, having participated in the fundraisers in various modes?

It could be the truth.

Thank you. I will rest this witness and hand him over to cross-examination.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we will be very brief with this witness. Mr. Witness, do you confirm that you moved the Motion for impeachment last time?

Yes, I confirm.

Do you confirm that you live by the statements that you have indicated in your affidavit that you have testified to?

Sorry?

That you confirm and want to rely on the affidavit that you have filed?

Yes, I confirm.

That you remember on 7thNovember, 2023, you took the same stand and testified before this Assembly as a Mover, is that correct?

Yes, I confirm.

Do you remember a question was put to you on whether or not the impeachment then was politically instigated?

Yes.

Do you recall your answers?

I may not recall the exact answer.

I will give you the answer. Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am referring to the HANSARD of this House, dated 7thNovember,2023. That is on page 53. Mr. Muthomi Thiankolu was the lead counsel then, is that correct?

Yes.

Do you remember him putting this question to you and you answered in negative that it was not politically instigated? Do you remember? Do you recall or you do not, Mr. Witness? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I do not recall. Perhaps, you can read the answer for me.

Do you remember Mr. Muthomi asking you whether it is true from the Governor’s allegations, that the impeachment was politically instigated and you said it was not true? Have I now refreshed your memories?

From the records, yes.

Do you still want to hold that position?

Of course, everything that was in that Motion was not substantiated---

Excuse me, Mr. Witness. I want a “Yes” or “No” answer. Do you still hold that position or you want to run away from it?

As at then, I held that position.

What has now changed?

So many things.

One is that you are no longer the County Assembly Leader of Majority?

No.

Number?

The Governor reached out and called for reconciliation. I did a lot of soul searching. I have consulted widely---

It is okay. Do not answer questions that I have not put to you.You have testified at length how people were induced to bring that particular Motion, correct?

Yes, and I have stated the facts.

Is that the Motion that you brought on 7th November, 2023?

Yes.

Did you bring a Motion out of ulterior motives of being induced as at then?

According to the circumstances then.

Did you allow yourself to be induced?

As per the circumstances then.

So, on that day when you took the stand, on 7th November, 2023, you did not speak the truth of this Senate, but rather out of inducement. Is that correct?

I am saying---

Is that correct or not? I do not want a vague answer.

That is not correct.

From your evidence, were you induced at that particular time?

I have narrated all the events that led to production of that Motion.

One of the events, Mr. Witness, was that you were induced, correct? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I did not say we were induced. I said we were mobilised according to party lines.

How were you mobilised?

I stated that we met as the leadership---

For financial gains, including Kshs20,000 that you were given, is that correct?

That was later, after the second impeachment.

Do you remember the Christmas gift?

That was after the second impeachment that failed in the Senate.

Do you remember the Christmas gift?

I am saying that was after the second impeachment that failed at the Senate.

Did you receive a gift?

Yes.

For work well done?

A Christmas gift for work well done? Christmas was coming.

Mr. Witness, if you allowed yourself to be induced at that particular time to bring that impeachment Motion, how truthful is your statement today?

I was not induced. I said we were mobilised on party lines.

Which party do you belong to?

The UDA Party.

So, the UDA Party mobilised its MCAs to bring the Motion?

The UDA Party at Meru County level mobilised the MCAs to introduce an impeachment Motion.

Does that mean that the UDA Party is or was against the Governor?

I stated in my statement---

Does that mean at that particular time, the UDA Party was against the Governor?

At the county level, yes. Nationally, the Secretary General had stated that that was not the party position.

Which other party was against the Governor at that time?

Parties that were mobilised. We had the Mbus Party, Party of National Unity (PNU), the Jubilee Party, and others.

You spoke about receiving Kshs80,000, do you remember?

That was facilitation to be in the Senate.

Who gave these Kshs80,000?

It was paid by the Assembly.

Did you receive or partake of it?

Yes, I received.

Was it a motivation for you to appear? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

It was facilitation to be in the Senate for the five days that we were here.

Have you been facilitated today?

I have said that we have received a message---

Have you been facilitated today?

Yes, we have been facilitated, but it has not yet been paid. However, it will be paid because we have received a message from the Clerk, saying that Members will be facilitated for five days to be in the Senate.

That notwithstanding whether or not you appear for Governor Kawira as a witness or a witness for the Assembly?

Witness for the Governor.

The County Assembly has equally facilitated you, is that correct?

I have received that message.

That you will receive your per diems for participating?

Yes.

So, it was usual for the County Assembly to facilitate its Members?

During the previous one, only 59 Members were facilitated.

Since today you have received a message that you will receive facilitation, is it usual for the County Assembly to facilitate its Members?

Yes, we have received the message.

Therefore, the County Assembly considers its Members as equal, is that correct?

No.

Mr. Witness, I want to refer you to your affidavit. Before I do that, have you critically read the Motion before this Assembly for the impeachment of the Governor?

I have gone through the Motion.

Have you answered those allegations in your affidavit? If yes, kindly point to us the particular paragraph that answers to the allegations.

The particular allegations?

Excuse me. Just take your affidavit and lead the Senate to the particular paragraph that has responded to Issue No.1.Where have you responded?

Just a minute. I have responded to the issue of money that was raised for the---

Not the money that was raised. I am talking about the issue of illegal revocation. Where have you responded in your affidavit?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have not responded to it in that affidavit.

Have you responded to it in your affidavit?

I have not responded to it in that affidavit. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You have not responded to it. Issue number two, where have you responded to it?

I have stated---

Do you know what issue number two is all about?

Yes.

Show us the particular paragraph that responds to those allegations.

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, it is in paragraph 23

Paragraph 23; read it out.

- “That the Clerk of the Assembly, under the instructions of the Speaker, has been writing several letters to frustrate the approval of the Governor's nominees for the boards of various semi-autonomous government agencies. The Clerk has no role.”

Do you have evidence in that respect?

It is in the Governor's bundle.

Were you aware of this frustration by the Clerk before you came to this Assembly?

Yes, I was aware because when those----

You were aware, thank you.

Yes.

Did you take any actions to curtail these frustrations?

Yes, I did.

What did you do?

When these letters came---

Where is the evidence in your affidavit?

It is not in the affidavit, but personally, I gave my opinion in a meeting---

Mr. Witness, please, listen. I am not asking you to give us your opinion; you have given so many of them. So we do not want to entertain any further opinion. We want to go to the facts. Where have you pleaded in your affidavit that you took actions against the Clerk for frustrating the works of the Governor?

I did not take any action against the Clerk, but I have responded to Count No.2.

Yes.

I did not take any action, but in my affidavit, I have responded to that---

Show us in your affidavit, where you have responded to issue number three. I put it to you that Paragraph 23 does not respond to the, to the allegations contained in the notice of Motion; issue number two.

Sorry.

I put it to you that paragraph 23 of your affidavit is not a response, and is not evidence that relates to the allegations of failing to appoint chairpersons. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I do not agree to that.

Let us go to issue number three and point to us in your affidavit where you have responded to it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have not responded to issue number three.

Thank you. Let us go to issue number four. Point us in your affidavit to you have responded to it.

I have responded to it where I stated that I am aware that the count was initially in the previous impeachment Motions.

Where in you, in your paragraph, and is the issue about dismissing or the issue of the expenditure of county money, the Governor dismissing individuals and making the county accrue unnecessary resources paid to the litigants.

Did you understand?

If I can read it, it is illegally dismissing and it is in bold.

Yes.

The words “illegally dismissing” are in bold, and then narration continues.

As a consequence of?

Illegally dismissing.

As a consequence, thereof, what happened?

A loss.

A loss of how much?

Kshs4 million.

Where is that in your affidavit?

I have said---

Where is it in your affidavit?

It is not in my affidavit.

It is not in your affidavit?

Yes.

Let us go to Count No.2 on gross misconduct; “deliberately misleading the members of the public that in the burial of Mr. Sniper Kshs86 million was raised, correct?

Yes.

You are aware of those utterances, correct?

Yes, I am aware.

That the same were done by the Governor, yes?

Yes, I am aware.

That it was done in public, correct?

Yes.

That there was a pay bill that was generated for that purposes, yes?

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

That in the same pay bill, it is only Kshs286,516, that was related, correct?

According to the County Assembly's evidence.

Do you have any contrary evidence to that affirmance?

Yes, in my statement, I was stated---

Please, lead us to that particular paragraph.

Just a minute.

You are also aware that the Governor made averment and allegations that the wife, the widow to the Mr. Sniper has moved on with a certain MCA? Correct?

I am not aware of that. I am not aware.

Let us pray video 1A and 1B in our videos. Did you changa to that particular pay bill?

No, no. Not to the pay bill.

How did you changa ?

Through the WhatsApp group created for the County Assembly Members.

How was the money collected?

It was collected through a Member of the County Assembly.

Which Member?

Through a Member of the County Assembly hon. Sarah Gakii.

Is it true that the wife of the deceased Mr. Sniper moved on with an MCA?

I am not aware.

Did you see her testifying yesterday?

I did not watch the proceedings?

Are you aware that she was a witness?

Sorry?

Are you aware that she was a witness?

Yes, I am aware she was a witness.

Did you follow through her evidence?

I did follow.

Alright. As viewed from the playing of those videos, you have indicated before this Assembly that one of the frustrations that you colluded to undertake was to make sure that the Governor was frustrated in the feeding program, correct?

Yes.

That frustration was actualized according to your evidence. Correct?

Yes.

How was it actualized? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Through a motion in the County Assembly, a report of a committee.

Through a motion, correct?

Yes.

So it is in your evidence that that programme is no longer running, correct?

It was stopped.

Mr. Witness, I refer you and I refer the Senators to our further bundle of vol.6 at page 83.

Yes.

Kindly look at the entry where we have the votes correct. Can you see them?

Yes. I can see the votes.

Votes 2211015. Can you see it?

Yes.

Confirm that this is a Meru County budget estimate for the year ended for the year 2024.

Yes, it is.

Confirm that you participated in this process, Correct?

I did participate.

That you are aware of the allocations and apportionment, correct?

I am aware.

Therefore, you want to read with us about that particular vote? Yes.

Yes.

What does it provide?

Food duration, feeding programme.

How much has been allocated?

Kshs54 million.

For which financial year?

Financial Year 203 2024.

What was the purpose of the allocation?

The feeding programme.

Thank you. Was it approved?

It was approved by the County Assembly.

Has this year's budget also been approved?

This year's budget has been approved.

Thank you. Let us go to the next one, about the cows. It is your evidence that the County Assembly has colluded to frustrate the Governor's programmes. Correct?

Yes, please.

Let us look at page 79 of the same bundle. Hon. Senators, we look at the vote written 3111302-00001. Can you see it? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sorry, come again.

Can you see that vote end?

Yes. Yes.

Can you see it?

Yes.

Again, confirm that these are for Financial Year 2024/2025.

Sorry.

Confirm that this is the approved budget for Financial Year 2024/2025.

Yes.

The County Assembly has approved that budget, correct?

Yes, it has been approved.

That even Financial Year 2023/2024, the same was approved, correct.

What you are saying it is the budget for the Financial Year 2024/2025, but there is nothing that has been approved for that vote?

Yes. What was the reason for failure to approve?

The Assembly halted the programme.

On the failure to have policies, correct?

Yes.

Is there a policy that exists in that respect?

It was introduced in the County Assembly, and the Assembly is trying to approve it.

Is there a policy that exists in that respect?

I am saying that the policy was introduced in the County Assembly by the CECM for Agriculture, and the County Assembly failed to approve it.

Is it mandatory for the County Assembly to approve anything or---

That was the requirement that they had a recommendation in the report---

Are you aware that that policy was rejected through the public participation?

No, it was not. Some subject them to public participation---

So, so the County Assembly must at all this time act according to the demands as they come according to your evidence. Correct.

Sorry.

The County Assembly must always pass anything without scrutiny even without looking at the viability of the project, correct?

It has to look at the viability and---

Thank you. Confirm to us that you have responded to Count No.3 on Abuse of Office. Have you, and if yes, point us to that evidence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Under Abuse of Office, I have responded to count number---

What paragraph?

Paragraph 10.

Yes, paragraph 10.

Employed a bloated workforce of at least 111 personal staff and I indicated in my affidavit that it was---

Paragraph 10.

Yes. I indicated in my affidavit that it was ---

Can you read out paragraph 10?

Employing a bloated workforce of at least ---

Paragraph 10 of your affidavit.

I did not say paragraph 10 of my affidavit but let me see.

I have asked you whether you have responded to paragraph 10.

Yes, I have responded to---

Where is that response?

Counsel, I have responded to count number three in paragraph 10 on employment of a bloated workforce.

Where is that in your affidavit? That is what I want you to show us.

Just a minute. It is at paragraph 22 of my affidavit.

Read it out.

That I am also aware that the current impeachment Motion features some issues which were also in the previous Motions in the Senate, and the Senate finding the allegations unsubstantiated and not meeting a threshold of impeaching a governor.The issue of bloated workforce and alleged illegal dismissal of Dr. Ntoiti and three others was in the failed Motion.

Do you work for the County Executive?

No.

How did you conclude on the question of the bloated workforce?

We brought it here and it was not substantiated. We could not prove it.

Did you call out for any statement from the responsible organ of the county government?

My work ended when I brought it to the Senate and it was not substantiated.

Did you or did you not? Did you call for any oversight over that issue when you went back to the County Assembly?

I did not.

You have alleged that individuals were called somewhere in Mombasa. Were you in attendance? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I have alluded to two meetings in Mombasa.In one, I was in attendance and the other one I was not.

Which one were you in attendance?

The one immediately after the second impeachment.

Immediately after the second impeachment?

Yes.

Who was paying for your allowances?

The County Assembly of Meru.

Is it unusual or usual for the County Assembly to do that?

It is not unusual.

Thank you.

What was unusual were the activities---

I am satisfied with your answer. Mr. Witness, confirm that a county government must spend money in accordance to the budgetary allocations and prudence, correct?

Yes.

Have you looked at issue No. 11 in our Motion? To that effect, do you know one Kiambi Christus Manyara?

I am there.

Do you know Kiambi Christus Manyara?

He is not personally known to me.

Have you ever heard of him?

I think I heard the name being mentioned during the hearing case of one ---

In what circumstances was the name being mentioned?

That he was an accused person.

In which matter?

Involved in that murder.

Do you know of somebody called Supuu?

Yes, Supuu is well known to me.

How do you know him?

He is a personal friend and we come from the same locality.

Do you know where he was working or where he works?

According to my knowledge, I am not aware of where he works because he has always told me that he is not employed.

You are aware that he works in the office of the Governor, yes?

I am not aware.

I therefore put it to you that he does work in the office of the Governor.

I cannot accept that one. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Equally, have you seen from that allegation that this one Christus Kiambi Manyara, while he was in custody, he was being paid his full salary?

I am not aware if he is in custody.

Read the allegations. Read them out.

Being Kiambi Christus Manyara a Public Communications Officer in the Office of the Governor, his full salary and benefits while in remand and despite being accused of murder, contrary to Section 4.2 of the Public Service Commission, Discipline Manual for the public service.

You are aware that he was arrested pursuant to that murder, correct?

Yes.

And that he was remanded, correct?

I am not aware of that.

I therefore put it to you that he was remanded and that while in remand, he was accruing all his full salary.

That is your evidence counsel.

That is our evidence. Have you controverted it in your affidavit?

I have not controverted it in any way.

You have not controverted it?

Yes.

You therefore cannot doubt what I am telling you this afternoon, correct?

I can doubt because there is no ---

You cannot doubt what I am telling you unless you have contrary evidence.

It is your word against mine, counsel.

Where is your word?

It is nowhere in the affidavit, but I am stating it now.

It is nowhere in your affidavit?

Yes.

I told you or I put to you, or I asked you, whether you know one Supuu.

Yes, I said I know one Supuu.

Have a look at this document. Hon. Senators, we are looking at volume two of our evidence at page 443 and he can be ready to play the video. Can you see serial number one?

Yes.

Can you read out that name?

Vincent Mureithi.

Vincent Mureithi?

Yes.

First of all, who is the originator of that document? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

The Acting Secretary, Meru County Public Service Board (CPSB), one, Virginia Kawira.

It is an internal memo, correct?

Yes.

And the internal memo speaks to the appointments of contractual employees in the Office of the Governor, correct?

They do.

Therefore, whatever appears therein is a list of those individuals who work in that office, correct?

That is true.

And that Vincent Mureithi of ID number that, works as an assistant director in that office, correct?

That is true, according to the memo.

That is Vincent Mureithi, alias Supuu, correct?

Yes.

Let us play that video. As we await, you know that the said Supuu and Manyara at page 429 of our bundle Volume 2, contains the information of the individuals who were charged with the murder of one Sniper, correct?

Yes, correct.

You can see accused number one is Vincent Mureithi Kirimi, alias Supuu, correct?

True.

Number two is who?

Murangiri Kenneth Guantai alias Tali.

Do you know him?

Personally, no.

Do you know that, that is the Governor's brother?

According to you.

Let us look at number three.

Boniface Githinji alias DJ Kabum.

Number four?

Christus Manyara alias Chris.

And that is Christus Manyara, who works in the Office of the Governor, correct?

The one that we have seen is working in the Office of the Governor is Vincent Mureithi Kirimi.

Let us look at that as we play the video.

Pause. Do you know whom she was referring to as those people wanazunguka na

In this video?

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I am not aware of the specific people because it was a group of people.

Could it have been the Mover of the Motion?

Maybe, yes, because the MCAs were there.

Could it have been you?

Personally, I was not there.

Okay. Let us proceed.

Pause. Have you heard what the Governor has said?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What has she said?

She mentioned, “Supuu”.

Mshtakiwa mtuhumiwa---

Anayedaiwa.

Play it again.

The chief---

Suspect.

Who is the chief suspect?

Supuu.

Has “Supuu” been charged before the court of law?

Yes.

Proceed.

Have you heard her an owning up that mnafaa mtafute mtu mmoja wa Governor? Have you heard that statement? Listen carefully.

Can it be played again?

Just play it again for him. Please, listen carefully.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my point of order is that this matter is live before the court of law under criminal proceedings. We should exercise a lot of precaution and deference to the court process because we are beginning to tread The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

into the area of testing the evidence and the witnesses in that matter, which is not before this court. That is sub judice for the rule of law.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we can then abandon it and go to the same clip at Minute 2.14.

Pause. You have heard the Governor say that wanataka haki kama familia.

Yes.

I have put to you that his brother has been charged in these proceedings.

Well and good.

Thank you. No further questions in that respect. I invite my learned friend, Mr. Muriuki, to proceed from there. Kindly, confirm that you have no evidence that controverts all the averments contained in the Motion, and that you have not tabled it before this Senate?

It is in my affidavit and there are supporting documents in the Governor's part.

Does the account you have given in just your frustrations and bitterness for having been removed as a leader of majority.

That is not true, counsel.

You have seen the last video that was played. There was an issue of gender card being played. Yes?

Which video?

You have seen the Governor play the last video where there was one person seated.

Yes, I have seen it.

The video started saying that this is all about women leadership and the people of Meru must accept it. Is that correct?

Yes, that is his opinion.

Is there a contention that she is a Governor?

There is none.

Yes?

None whatsoever, but she is facing an impeachment Motion.

Are you a man who is supporting the Governor?

I am supporting the Governor.

Are you a Meru?

Yes, I am.

Supporting a Governor. Is that correct?

Yes.

Therefore, when it comes to accountability, there is no defence of being a gender person. Is that correct?

That depends--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

There is no defence. Gender is not a defence.

Of course, it is not a defence.

Finally, when she was asked the last time, she said it was not me. Today, you have played clips blaming the Senators. Do you associate yourself with the statements that were made by Ali Haji?

I do not associate myself with those sentiments.

Do you have confidence with this Senate that they can dispense with substantive justice?

A lot of confidence.

That is why we are here. Is that correct?

True.

Do you attribute that statement to any Member of the County Assembly (MCAs)?

It was used to incite MCAs---

Can you associate it with any MCA?

Yes, because they were there nodding and applauding when Al-Haji was speaking those words.

Is it wrong for somebody to hold an opinion?

It is not wrong.

Thank you. Mr. Muriuki, you may proceed. Before I go to Mr. Muriuki, you remember he claimed to be the Secretary General of the Bus Party?

Yes, Al Haji claimed---

He said he is a Secretary General and he never defined where he is a Secretary General. He gave a statement that, “I am the Secretary General.”

Yes.

Thank you.

Counsel, you have three minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Mawira?

Yes, counsel.

Today, you have taken an oath when you stood here.

True.

Just like you did the last time you were here on 7th November, 2023?

True.

In that oath, you said that you are going to tell this House the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

True.

You have come here today saying that the last time, your impeachment Motion was politically instigated?

Yes.

Did you tell the Senate that last time when you were here?

At that point--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Did you make such statement last time you were here, yes or no?

I did not make such a statement last time.

You did not tell the whole truth to the Senate?

I told the truth.

You did not tell the whole truth.

I told the truth according to the proof that---

Mr. Mawira, you have said--- I do not have time, so please do not argue with me. Just answer yes or no. You have said that party formations were used to whip you into moving an impeachment Motion?

That is true.

Have you adduced any documents to that effect?

None.

Have you adduced any letter telling you to move the impeachment Motion?

None.

Mr. Mawira, I put it to you that you do not have a mind of your own, that you are a gun for hire.

That is your opinion, counsel.

Mr. Mawira, you stated that you are giving evidence on behalf of other people who are not here.

That is true.

Are you aware that there is no such thing as giving evidence on behalf of other witnesses? You can only give evidence on behalf of a party.

They have given me the authority to plead on their behalf.

Mr. Mawira, you have claimed that there were meetings organized to sabotage the executive that you took part.

Yes, there were such meetings.

Have you brought the minutes for those meetings?

No minutes. They were informal meetings.

Mr. Mawira, you have stated in your affidavit that the MCAs who are supporting the Governor, at paragraph 13 of your affidavit---

Counsel, your time is up. I will allow you to ask that last question and conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Mawira, you have stated in paragraph 13 of your affidavit that the MCAs who support the Governor were removed from committees, including the Budget and Finance Committee, the Public Accounts Committee and the Committee on Implementation.

That is true.

Who is the chair of the Budget Committee?

Hon. Mwirigi from Kibirichia Ward.

Is he a witness for the Governor in this case?

Yes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Who is the Chairperson of the Gender Committee?

Hon. Murogocho.

Did she support this impeachment Motion?

No.

Who is the Chair of the Transport Committee?

Hon. Kithinji.

Did he support this impeachment Motion?

No.

Who is the Chair of the Finance Committee?

Hon. Caleb.

Did he support this impeachment Motion?

No.

Who is the Chair of the Committee on Delegated Legislation?

Hono. Sarah Gakii.

Did she support this impeachment Motion?

No.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

In that paragraph, it is clearly stated 13 MCAs---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done with my questions for the witness. Thank you.

Thank you, Counsel. Hon. Senators, we will now give you an opportunity to ask questions.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have one minute for re-exam.

Counsel, you have four minutes remaining.

I will utilize one.

Okay. Proceed.

Hon. Mawira, I will need you to confirm the names that have just been read to you. Are they members of that committee and were they still members then or what transpired? There are names the counsel has just read to you confirming that they still hold their positions in the committees and yet they did not support the Motion. Kindly, in one minute.

These are Members who started supporting the Governor just the other day when the impeachment Motion was introduced. However, when we were de-whipped from committees, we were 13 and that is what I have alluded to in that affidavit.

That is all. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Legal Counsel for the Governor, have you concluded your questions?

Yes, I am done with the witness.

Your time of three minutes?

I have the Governor as the last witness and with your indulgence, I seek to engage the Governor in under 20 minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Counsel, we will first take questions and clarifications from the Senators and then we will get back to giving you more time, once we finish with the Senators.

Most obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Senators, we will now take your questions and we will keep it under 30 minutes. We will be giving each Senator one minute to ask questions because there are several requests and we need to have many people as possible. Therefore, one question, one minute and be very brief. Sen. Murango James Kamau.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Mnamo tarehe 16/10/2023, wakati tulikuwa tukiangalia Hoja iliyokuwa imewasilishwa hapa kuhusu kung’atuliwa kwa Gavana Kawira, Mhe. Mawira ambaye yuko mbele yetu alikula kiapo. Aliweka hati ya kiapo ambayo alikuwa amechukua kusema kwamba ana akili timamu na ana uweazo wakuaminika na akatia kidole, ile hati ya kiapo aliyoleta katika Seneti. Leo, chini ya kiapo, ameleta pia, hati ya kiapo kingine, ambayo imebadilisha mawazo na kusema ya kwamba, hii Seneti ilikaa chini kuangalia makaratasi, tukapoteza pesa za umma na wakati, kufuatilia stakabadhi ambazo zilikuwa hazina maana.

Seneta, ulikuwa uulize swali lako katika dakika moja. Wewe umeanza hadithi nyingi. Uliza wali sasa.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ninauliza Mhe. Mawira, uliokokea kanisa gani ili tukuamini leo na ulitudanganya wakati tulikuwa tunaangalia masuala hayo wakati ule mwingine?

Sen. Wambua, halafu utajibu maswali hayo mawili.

Is it the evidence on record of the witness and under oath that last year, you moved a Motion for the impeachment of the Governor of Meru, under duress and that you do not believe in what you said and the grounds that you adduced? If that be the case, why should we believe you have faith in what you are telling us?

You see, Wambua, you managed in one minute. Witness, go ahead and answer those two questions.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is true I moved the previous impeachment Motion and whatever I stated under the circumstances and the facts availed to me, I believed to be the truth at that point. However, looking at the sequence of events that led to that impeachment Motion, I felt that we were misused at that point and lied to. I also believe that answers the question by Sen. Wambua that if I believed in the grounds then. Yes, I believed in them. I also believe in what I have right now stated.

Next question is by Sen. Karen Nyamu and Sen. Mumma, in that order.

Witness, you say that you were part of a scheme to impeach the Governor, which was politically instigated. You even were part of the team that went to Mombasa for a retreat. What changed your mind and what was the exodus moment so that now, you are supporting the Governor? The other question--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Sen. Nyamu, just one question, please. Sen. Mumma.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. My question to the witness is, the Governor is widely accused of not being a people person who brings people together. What efforts have been made to bring the Governor and the County Assembly to work together for the benefit of the people of Meru?

To answer the first question is that what changed my mind was that immediately after the second impeachment Motion failed in this Senate and immediately we left Mombasa and the Nanyuki meeting, I personally suffered because I fell ill. I was admitted in the Karen Hospital here. My blood pressure levels had gone up and I disclosed this fact to the Assembly Speaker who came to visit me. Thereafter, I felt that I needed to take some time to chart the way forward on what was happening in Meru. I did a lot of soul searching and consulted my wife, family and close confidants, including my electorate. My electorate had started saying that they did not send me to fight the Governor and it is at the point when the Governor reached out to me, I felt I needed to listen to her and see if she was genuine. I then saw her genuineness and that was the point when I decided to support the Governor. About the Governor not bringing people together, I have stated that immediately the Governor left this Senate during the last impeachment Motion, she went round the county, making a call for peace and reconciliation, amongst all leaders. She also asked for forgiveness, if at all she had wronged any leader in Meru. She even went further to reach out to me. I know she also tried to reach out to the other leaders because there were reconciliation efforts brought by the President and the Deputy President where the Governor sat down with all the leaders from Meru County, including the Deputy Governor. This did not culminate to any peace in the county. However, from the side of the Assembly, they have been going out and doing everything possible to frustrate any reconciliation process.

The next question will be from Sen. Samson Cherarkey, followed by Sen. Beatrice Ogola.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Witness, according to the Senate HANSARD of 7th November, 2023, Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu, asked you that since you as the mover of the Motion; is this message consistent with the narrative of a peaceful governor who is a victim of some evil scheme to oust her out of office?

Hon. Mawira Kaaria, you responded by saying it is inconsistent. Is this still your position, or has it changed? What will make us believe that it is out of inducement that you are supporting the Governor now?

The hon. witness, a video was shown to you and the Senate on the funeral of one alias Sniper. There was bashing of the Senate and some Senators and then there was the funeral of Sniper. So, between the two, the death and the loss of Sniper, and the bashing, which is most important to you and the people of Meru?

Sorry, I beg your pardon. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

A video was shown to you and the Senate of a burial of one alias Sniper. In that video, there was the bashing of the Senate and some Senators.So, between the bashing of the Senate and the loss of Sniper---

The message that we passed during the second impeachment Motion that the Governor was not a peace-seeking person, was valid at that point depending on the activities that had happened previously. As at this point, it is invalid because we have seen efforts from the Governor trying to bring peace and call for reconciliation in the county.

If there is one sign that can tell you the Governor is peaceful, I am the one who was here crucifying her. I moved the Motion to impeach her. If it went through, the Governor could have been sent packing, condemning her from serving in any public office in this country for the whole of her life.

When she reached out, we sat down and considered all the events and factors surrounding that position at that point. She told me she had no problem at all with me or with any other leader or with any other MCA. From that point up to now, we have been working together, supporting her by trying to bring peace to that county. I do not believe there will be any other sign to show that the Governor has reformed and she is a peaceful person.

About any inducement, I am not aware of any. If at all there is an inducement that would have led me to support the Governor, it is the service delivery for the people who elected me, of Mitunguu Ward.

On the second question of bashing the Senators and the loss of Sniper, I believe that the hon. Senator was asking which is a weightier issue. I would say that the unfortunate loss of life is a weightier issue than the bashing of the Senate.

Next question is by Sen. Hilary Wakili, followed by Sen. Johns Mwashushe Mwaruma.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Mawira, you have told this House that you are a member of United Democratic Alliance (UDA). Did you have any meeting before the alleged meeting that you said you were caucused to bring out an impeachment Motion against the Governor, which you were a mover?

Secondly, you told this House earlier on in that Motion that you moved that the Governor had gone rogue. At what point did you have your Damascus moment and that the Governor could have changed?

Hon. Mawira, in your assessment, if by chance the Governor happens to be acquitted, do you think there is a possibility of the Governor working with the Assembly? What needs to be done for that to be achieved or do you think the situation is irredeemable?

Thank you.

On the question by Sen. Wakili Sigei, there was no meeting for the party, but there were informal meetings, commonly known as Kamukunji, in the Assembly where the leadership of the House and Members felt that they needed to punish the 10 members who were not supporting the impeachment Motion in the Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

It was my opinion then in that meeting that there was no need to punish these Members because of their political decision or their democratic right of either supporting or not supporting the impeachment Motion.

Furthermore, they had not stopped the Assembly from impeaching the Governor at that point. Therefore, at that point, I told the informal meeting that I did not see any need for us to punish the 10 Members. I have been reminded that in the previous impeachment Motion, I said the Governor had gone rogue. However, considering the facts and events that previously happened, there was some element of truth. What changed, or when did I change, is when the Governor now started preaching reconciliation and peace. In her own act, even went ahead to stop the Okolea Programme that most of the MCAs were disgruntled with. Therefore, at that point, I saw that the Governor was genuine and agreed to change.

On the second question if the Governor is acquitted, is she likely to work with other leaders? That is very true because if you can follow the sequence of events from the first impeachment Motion. During the first impeachment Motion, the Governor was being supported by only one MCA at that point. During the second impeachment Motion, the Governor had the support of only 10 Members. During this third impeachment Motion, the Governor has the support of 20 Members, and it was only when three more were intimidated and coerced that they abandoned the course of calling for dialogue, we could have been 23 members.

If at all the Assembly can be set free from the victimization, the intimidation, the threats that have been put upon the Members who are supporting the Governor, if that is done today, you will see more than 40 Members of the County Assembly working with the Governor of Meru.

The 13 of us even wrote a letter to the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations of this hon. Senate, calling them to come to Meru, and at least help us set the Assembly and the MCAs free. It is out of fear that now when you support the Governor, you will be victimized, lose your committee positions, your allowances and all privileges, even to the point of being denied an opportunity to contribute in the Assembly, even to a point of being thrown out of the Assembly because of your contribution. If we address that, the problem of Meru will have come to an end, I want to promise you that.

Hon. Senators, the questions have been very similar. So, I hope the next Members who want to ask a question will ask different questions going forward.

Sen. Kisang, followed by Sen. Beth Syengo.

This is my question to Hon. Mawira. You have told us that immediately after the failed impeachment of November last year, you went to Mombasa and agreed to plan for another impeachment. So, it means no matter what the Governor does, the County Assembly will continue to come up with impeachment Motions against her.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Witness, during the second impeachment Motion, you were on the other side. When you went back, you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

saw the light. Did you make efforts to reach more? You have talked of 20.Are you willing after this to reach more to see the light? I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and Hon. Senators. It is true that I stated that this impeachment Motion that has been brought to this House started being planned immediately after the second one failed. I have narrated what transpired previously. You have all seen video clips especially alluding to the Mover, indicating that even if the Senate acquits the Governor today, they are ready to bring more Motions up to maybe six or seven times. This is the character of the Meru County Assembly especially because the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) are not being set free to exercise their democratic right. Unless that is reversed expect to see more impeachment Motions in this Senate just in case the Governor is acquitted. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, however, if that is addressed, I want to assure you that this will be the last impeachment Motion to come to this House because the Governor has proved that she is ready to work with other Members. About my efforts to reach others; yes, I have done so severally. When you approach anyone in the Assembly, they tell you that they do not have any problem working with the Governor. However, when we come to support her, we lose the privileges of the Assembly. That single fact holds many Members in abeyance for supporting the Governor. I believe if she is acquitted and this Senate helps us address these issues in Meru County, you will see that the Governor will be ready and willing to work with each and every MCA. Nothing proves that more than the evidence that has been placed before this Senate that the Governor herself and the Executive team have agreed to allocate Kshs33 million for each and every ward, which was a bone of contention previously for the Ward Fund allocation. Therefore, I believe if the Senate finds it objective depending on the facts and evidence that have been placed before it to acquit the Governor, there will be peace in Meru County.

Sen. Mungatana, MGH followed by Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. A very quick one. A video was played here in the course of your evidence. In that video, this Senate was called a House of shame and greed. In fact, it was in Kiswahili and said that we are

in this House. I just wanted the witness to tell me and this House what was the purpose of that video. Was he adducing evidence to annoy or abuse us? What was the purpose of that evidence? Evidence is supposed to build your case. What did it build in terms of the case? Secondly, I invite the Speaker to make a ruling on whether we can allow any form of evidence to be adduced. I cannot speak in this House like that. Why should someone who is a---

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you. Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. Mr. Witness you stated that you have been whipped on party lines in the previous impeachment Motions. Does anyone not have a right to stand with their understanding? If you knew the Governor was either right or not, why then did you agree to take over the Motion that the lady told us she drafted? You took it over because you were sure that the Governor was going to be impeached, so that you could take the glory. I believe that even in this Senate, we have parties and people who can stand on their own and make the right decisions.

Thank you. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First of all, I do regret the words that were uttered in that video. It is not my position that this is a House of shame. I know the Senate is very credible and objective in undertaking its work. However, that evidence was brought before you to illustrate how MCAs have been incited and induced by party leaders. Specifically, the video that was played showed the Secretary-General (SG) of the Bus Party in Meru County. Maybe at that point, that was the feeling of the MCAs who were supporting the impeachment Motion. Therefore, we played it to show you the low level that political players in the county can go to make sure that the process of impeaching the Governor does not stop even once the Senate acquits her. On the second question of whipping of party line and people’s stance. I believe that Hon. Senators, in this House were elected through parties. We have seen that parties can bite. The consequences of defying party orders are there and we cannot deny that. We have already seen it being inflicted on us by being removed from committees, denied opportunities to attend trainings, capacity building and even opportunities to contribute in the House. We have sacrificed. As a matter of fact, the 13 Members who have been supporting the Governor since February this year have not received a single dime from that Assembly. Therefore, when it comes to that point, most Members decide to weigh the consequences of defying the party lines, and since we are all human beings, most of them decide to support the party line.

Next question by Sen. Veronica Maina, followed by Sen. Omogeni.

Hon. Evans Mawira, you were in this House on 6thand 7th November, 2023 with an impeachment Motion and you say this was politically instigated by some political leaders. However, in paragraph four of your affidavit, you did not disclose who these political leaders were. I have seen many meetings taking place together with a lot of fights and squabbles in Meru County. In your opinion, do you think the residents of Meru County are being served by the Meru County Assembly? Are you, the Hon. MCAs, serving the people or a lot of time has been spent fighting and tossing the ball from one side to the other? Is Meru County getting any benefit from devolution with all these fights? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Witness, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. To address the first question, there is indeed a lot of political infighting in Meru County. This can be attributed mostly to the losers during the previous general elections. I have been asked if the people of Meru County are being served by the Meru County Assembly and the MCAs. I will come to that. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I state that the people of Meru have not received the best from the County Assembly of Meru because the MCAs have been reduced to participating in political infighting instead of focusing on serving the people of Meru. On the question of who those people are; I previously mentioned what has been transpiring in that county. However, even for the reason of safety of my life, I would want not to mention the names expressly in this Senate. It is as dangerous as that. During the public participation, my experience as an MCA I would say the first impeachment Motion was held at the County Assembly where MCAs and staff were present. The attendance was well. For the second impeachment Motion, the public participation was held at the sub-county level where MCAs were present as well. They participated and took minutes although the attendance had started to go down. During this third impeachment Motion, the attendance was very poor. Also, MCAs attended very few venues of the public participation. Therefore, the public participation meetings were conducted by MCAs. What I can attribute to the low attendance during this impeachment Motion was the feeling of the people of Meru were really tired of these fights. If you could listen to many of them, because, personally, I listened to my electorate, they wanted these fights to cease and to give every elected leader a chance to serve. When it comes to removing them from office, we will do so during the general elections because they are about just three years away from now. Thank you.

The next questions are from Sen. Alexander Munyi and Sen. Osotsi.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Swali langu kwa mheshimiwa ni hili; wakati wa kuondolewa mamlakani kwa Gavana Kawira mara ya kwanza na mara ya pili, ulikuwa hapa ukiunga mkono ili aweze kutimuliwa. Sasa, unasema kwamba baadaye, ulienda ule upande mwingine ili uweze kuleta watu pamoja. Wakati ulienda upande ule mwingine ili ulete watu pamoja, ndio wakati mheshimiwa mmoja alisema kwamba ng’ombe 20 wa pesa nyingi walifariki. Pia tukaona The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

kwa video watoto wakizaliwa nje ya hospitali. Hospitali hiyo ilikuwa haifianyi kazi kwa sababa madaktari hawakuwa mle ndani. Ukiwa mtu wa kuleta watu pamoja kama unavyodai, ulichukua hatua gani ama wewe ni mmoja wa wale walipatiwa pesa ili wamuunge mkono gavana. Asante.

Mr. Mawira, I refer you to your affidavit, which is on page 39 where you have said that the anger and malice was directed towards the Financial Year 2024/2025 County Fiscal Strategy Paper (CFSP). You say 56 MCAs openly went against the previously agreed Ward Equalization Development Fund and allocated Kshs45 million in each of the wards whose elected MCAs were against the Governor and Kshs15 million to the wards whose elected MCAs were supporting the Governor. This is after they had been advised against tabling ward development fund---

Hon. Senator, ask your question, because you only have one minute.

What I want from the witness is---

Give him 30 seconds to ask the question.

This particular statement confirmed that this is an illegality because it is against Article 10 of the Constitution. It is clearly discriminatory. What is your view about this and was this CFSP approved?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Kulingana na lile swali limeulizwa na eleza hii Seneti ya kwamba kama ni pesa inafanya tumuunge mkono gavana, basi tungekaa na wale wanaompinga. Hii ni kwa sababu County Assembly ya Meru ndio ina uwezo wa kupea MCAs money. As I have said, since February, we have not received even a single cent from that Assembly as a consequence of supporting the Governor. Therefore, it is unfortunate that we could be told that it is money that has led us to support the Governor. I believe that as a peace loving Senate and a people, we should strive to preach more peace, so that we bring the Executive Arms of Government and the County Assembly together regardless of what has happened in the past. Not mentioning that you can only support the Governor because of money inducements. According to the CFSP that I have stated, that is true.The CFSP was approved by the MCAs. Whereas the 38 elected members who opposed the Governor were allocated Kshs45 million in their wards, the seven of us who were in support of the Governor were allocated Kshs15 million. This was up until when the CECM Finance, Economic Planning and ICT complained to the office of the Control Budget (CoB) and sought some advice. That is when that illegality was corrected and all wards were allocated that Kshs36 million according to the agreement between the negotiation team. Thank you.

Hon. Senators, since we are out of time, I will take the last two questions from Sen. John Kinyua, followed by Sen. Mo Fire Gataya. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Shahidi mheshimiwa Mawira, sijui ni kuamini leo ama ule wakati mwingine ulikuja hapa. Hii ni kwa sababu Bibilia inasema unapaswa utumiwe kama chombo. Sijui kama wewe ni chombo? Unasema ulishurutishwa na ulitishwa wakati ule mwingine. Leo ulipokuwa ukiongea, ulisema ya kwamba huwezi kutaja majina fulani kwa sababu unahofia maisha yako. Sijui nitakuamini leo ama wakati ule mwingine. Nina ugumu na ninakanganyikiwa.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Hon. Mawira, I have just captured your confessions that once you left this House after you brought the Motion of impeachment against the Governor, the Governor extended some gestures of reconciliation to the MCAs. In your own view, why do you think other MCAs did not listen to the reconciliation mood and gesture extended by the Governor as you did? I have been an MCA for a decade and I know the workings and relationship between the Governor and the MCAs. Why do you think other MCAs did not listen to those reconciliation moves from the Governor?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In reference to the question by Sen. Kinyua, I have stated and given facts that led to me bringing the second impeachment Motion to this honourable Senate. If at all there is a time you should believe me, it is now. This is because I agreed to testify in this honourable Senate knowing the circumstances and the fact that I was here previously. That shows you the level of commitment and sacrifice that I have gone to show and prove to you, hon. Senators and the country at large, because this is a matter of national interest right now, that the Governor has been fought incessantly, political fights. That is why we are here right now. Therefore, those are the facts that I can attest to in this honourable Senate. There are reconciliation efforts by the Governor. It is true that she reached out. On why other Members are not agreeing or accepting the olive branch being extended to them by the Governor, the County Assembly of Meru punishes any Member who attempts to work with the Governor. The MCAs of Meru, especially the elected ones, cannot be seen even following up projects in the executive wing of the government. If you are seen there, you are deemed as a traitor and, therefore, punished by being removed from committees and denied Assembly privileges. That makes it very hard for other Members to try and forge a working relationship with the governor.

Thank you, witness. Counsel for the Governor, you had a remainder of four minutes. Which witness do you want to call next?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my next and last witness is the Governor of the County of Meru. I had requested for the time to be extended by at least 15 minutes, so that I have a total of 20 minutes to be done with the Governor in examination-in-chief.

Yes, Counsel for the Assembly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the morning, the Assembly was moved with an application called the doctrine of equality of arms by Mr. Ongoya, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

our learned counsel. He indicated that there ought to have been equality of arms. I still invoke the same wisdom, that there ought to be equality of arms to whichI seek your indulgence, since this is the main character in these particular proceedings. When they had the opportunity of dealing with our main witness, they had one hour 30 minutes. Therefore, it would suffice to indicate that in the effort of ensuring that we are all balanced and there is equality of arms, proper access to justice and fair hearing, you apportion us equal time, so that we can do justice to this case. Remember, it is we who have accused the Governor and we need sufficient time. If it so pleases the Senate, grant us leave to have at least one hour 30 minutes, so that we can dispense with the justice. At the end of the day, people will feel that justice has been done. I so beg.

Counsel, you have requested for an extra 15 minutes. As put by the Counsel for the Assembly, indeed, in the morning, your lead counsel requested that we give equality of arms as per the timings of yesterday. Counsel for the Assembly, I doubt we can give you one hour 30 minutes. In all fairness, they are asking for an extra 15 minutes. You utilised your whole one hour 10 minutes of cross-examination. To be fair, we will also give you 20 minutes to cross- examine the key witness. They will have extra 15 minutes on top of their four minutes. Roughly we will give them 20 minutes and you will also get 20 minutes to cross-examine the witness.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am well guided by your wisdom. In the event that we do not make it, I will still seek leave for indulgence. I am most obliged.

Thank you. Counsel for the Governor, you may proceed.

Good evening, Madam Governor?

Good evening to you, Wakili.

Thank you. You are appearing before the Senate for the third time, courtesy of MCAs of Meru who seek to have you removed from office by way of impeachment and they have cited three main grounds for impeachment. One is that you were invited to appear before the County Assembly of Meru, but you did not. Could you explain to the Senate why you did not honour the summonses of the County Assembly?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Senators. I did not appear before the County Assembly of Meru The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

because there was a court issue on the impeachment. I was afraid that if I went there, it could be termed as contempt of court.

You have talked about there being a court issue. Are you aware if the court had stopped the impeachment process at the County Assembly level?

There was a court order for the same.

Subsequent to the impeachment, did you take any action against the County Assembly for disobeying court orders?

Yes. After they moved and debated the impeachment Motion, I went to court and sued them for contempt of court.

Subsequently, you wrote to the Speaker of this House, informing him of the court processes and orders that had been issued. Do you recall doing that?

Yes.

What was the date of that letter?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): It was 9th August, 2024.

Nevertheless, you are here today to answer to the charges. You filed response dated 17th August, 2024. Do you wish to stand by the response as adduced before this Senate?

Yes.

With all the affidavits attached therein?

Yes.

Thank you. I will go specifically to the three charges. I would like you to guide me on any evidence that you have adduced. If the same has been adduced by other witnesses, you are free to state that indeed that issue has been addressed to your satisfaction. The first ground for impeachment is illegally revoking the appointment of one Virginia Kawira. Have you made a response to that allegation?

Yes.

You brought witnesses here to testify on that fact and there was a serious controversy as to a legal opinion that you allegedly received that informed your revocation. I want you to specifically address that issue because all the other issues have been addressed. I will be very specific. Did you or did you not receive any advisory from your legal advisor, Linda Kiome?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I received an advisory from the legal advisor. To be very specific, when we were here last time, I was advised by this honourable House that, if any, I should go do away with illegal appointments. I called my legal advisor and also Waziri for Legal Affairs and Public Administration and sought their advice about one Virginia Kawira.

Who was your legal advisor that you sought advice from? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Ms. Linda Kiome.

Ms. Linda Kiome appeared here yesterday and said that you have lifted her signatures from other documents and, or you have forged her signature or used it without her consent and termed that advisory as a mediocre. Why would Linda Kiome, an advocate of the High Court of Kenya, appear before Senate and disown a document that you allege she had forwarded to you, in your own understanding?

Perhaps due to some political pressure or because there is a case in court that she sued me because of terminating her services as my legal advisor. Those are among the issues that have, perhaps rendered her to say that the letter did not originate from her.

Madam Governor, are you familiar with technology to the extent of being able to lift a signature from another document? Are you that conversant with?

I do not know any technology about signature lifting.

So, your testimony in simple is that there is a personal vendetta between yourself and the advocate who disowned that document.

Yes.

Has the said legal advisor reached out to you, personally, or through other formal communications available to the county complaining about her use of that signature? Has she written any letter to you? Has anyone from your office been called? Has she called you personally to make that complaint?

She has not called me or written anything to me. I just saw her here yesterday.

For the first time?

Yes.

Thank you. Is it your testimony before this Senate, because the actual charge is legally revoking the appointment, that you acted on that advisory to take the action that you took?

Yes, I acted on advisory from the legal and the Waziri.

In two minutes, Madam Governor---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am constrained to object to the leading questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can we have my time frozen?

I am constrained to counsel leading the witness and putting leading questions, yet he is a seasoned advocate. Perhaps he needs to comply to the rules of examination-in-chief to avoid unnecessary intervention. I am greatly humbled.

Objection overruled. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Madam Governor, the issue is illegally revoking the appointment of CPA Virginia. Why did you find it necessary, even at the wake of that advisory, to take the action that you took? In your understanding, was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

the revocation illegal or not? Why did you take that action? Kindly, explain that in two minutes.

The revocation was not illegal. I am the one that appointed Virginia Kawira. The original agreement with her was that she would put away the first assignment that was given by the County Government, that is, the head financial officer in the county, and then get the new job. However, she did not honour the pledge that she promised.

So, by the time she took over the role of the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the CPSB, had she relinquished her previous post?

No.

How would that have affected service delivery in your government had you allowed that to proceed?

It could have affected the county government because having or holding that position for six years, as a government, we could not have recruited another person. That is why I asked, respectively, to handle one line and leave the Public Service Officer as a Financial Officer.

Thank you. What is your stand in respect to the accusation of failing to appoint chairpersons of various boards? Have you made any attempts to appoint the chairperson whose positions are vacant?

We took several names for appointment for all the semi-autonomous Government agencies that are in dispute, but to my astonishment, the Assembly has never given a reply or given us a go - ahead to have them as the board members.

Your County Executive Committee Member (CECM) Legal affairs and Public Service was here today and testified to that effect. Do you stand by the evidence that he produced?

I stand by the evidence that he produced.

The other issue is refusing to implement the recommendations of the resolutions of the County Assembly. Have you ever received, in your capacity as a governor, any resolution addressed to you by the County Assembly of Meru, requiring you to take action against Harrison Gatobu Nchamba and Dr. Kiambi Atheru Thambura, by way of removing them from office? Have you ever received any letter?

I have never received any letter or resolution for the same.

Has the County Assembly produced a single Communication that is specifically addressed to you as the governor requiring you to take action for a recommendation they made?

The Assembly has not produced any single letter or any resolution, addressed to me.

The report is seen to have been received by Harrison Gatobu Nchamba and the County Secretary.What is your comment on that? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I am not aware whether he received any resolution or any letter on my behalf.

Would it be prudent for the County Assembly of Meru to forward a recommendation for the removal of these two officers through the same officers that you were meant to take action over, or were they meant to just address you directly on this issue?

That could have been the best way. They could have just to written to me directly rather than to the chief of staff or the county secretary.

Thank you. You have also been accused of illegally dismissing three individuals from the County Revenue Board, the Liquor Board and the Meru Microfinance Corporation. Did you have a chance to interact with the same accusation during the last impeachment?

Yes, it was among the impeachment accusations.

Have you taken any other action since the time we left Senate in respect to the three names that would have formed the basis for the new impeachment? Have you taken any other action?

Sorry?

Have you taken any other step towards these three individuals? Have you dismissed them afresh? Have you recalled them? Have you done anything to their detriment since we left Senate last year?

Yes, we wrote to the County Assembly of Nairobi City, where one of them was an employee. In fact, he was an employee at the County Government of Meru and, at the same time, an employee of Nairobi City County.

I would like to quickly move on to the next issue. You have been accused of gross misconduct by deliberately and knowingly misleading the public that Kshs86 million had been raised through the paybill that had been provided for the burial arrangement of a blogger in Meru. Madam Governor, we have watched you in a clip making certain utterances. What informed those utterances and on what basis would you claim that Kshs86 million had been raised for this purpose?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Yes, I stated that the contributions were made to the magnitude of Kshs86 million. This is because for more than two months, the leaders and also the Members of the County Assembly went around Meru County in all stadium that is Kinoru stadium. They had a fundraising in that stadium where they raised a lot of money, even though they did not disclose how much it was. They went ahead to Maili Tatu Stadium where there were thousands and thousands of people.They raised money from there. They raised money from Maua Stadium. All Members of the National Assembly and MCAs raised a lot of money. Again, they had to crosscut across Meru County--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you. What was your connection with this issue that you had to make this statement? How was it concerning you that you had to make this statement? How was it your business that you had to make this comment? Give that context.

Thank you, Mr, Speaker, Sir. For me to make the statement, the leaders and also the MCAs were accusing me of being one of the killers of the young man. From there, they went ahead and started vilifying this House in connection to me that when I came here, maybe I bribed or so. From that is the time I addressed the media to clear my name and also to shed light about the money that was raised. At the same time, it was to assist the young family get justice. Not only for the young man, but also for the funds that were raised during those times.

This is an incident that was widely covered and a lot of disquiet was in Meru. What did you do to the family of the deceased? Did you take any action? Did you reach out? What did you do, Madam Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I tried to reach out to the family, but unfortunately the person that I sent there, one of my supporters, was almost torched because he was associated with me. I continued now to call the media at least to see that the money, which was raised was given to the family.

Let us very quickly watch VKM4 and VKM8. We may need the help of the translator.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please usher in the translator.

If we could have the time frozen as we wait for the help of the translator.

We can now play the video.

Tunapeana onyo, hiyo mwili tutaizika kwa boma ya gavana. Video haiskiki vizuri.

Can you repeat that part kindly?

Onyo. Mwili huo tutauzika kwa boma ya gavana. Kila siku tutakuwa tunatafuta mwenye aliuwa Sniper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I object to that translation. It is grossly misleading. I fully understand the Kimeru language. It has nothing to do with what the translator---

How many translators do we have out there? Is he the only translator we have? There are two? Bring in the other one. As a translator, there can never be any doubt cast upon you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Proceed.

A warning, if that body is found at the home of the Governor---

Mr. Speaker Sir, I think we have a serious problem.

No, kindly let us play it.

Translator, do this; face the other side; do not face the screen because you are translating what is in Meru to English. Just face the other side and simply hear the Meru language and translate it.

A warning, if that body is found at the residence of the Governor, well, I will not bury that body. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the sound of the video clip is not that good.

We all can hear.

Alright, just replay it.

A warning, if that body is found at the residence of the Governor, I will not bury that body. It will remain there forever until when we come to get the one who killed Sniper. If it is not possible, we will take it to Senate because those are the people who brought back that person who killed Sniper. We will fight and we do not care.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we can pause a bit. We had provided a transcript of those utterances. They are contained at volume IV on page six. Since I am dissatisfied with that translation, perhaps Senators can retreat and look at it and compare with a more qualified translator. We can have the next clip.

The body of Sniper, we will take it round in Kenya. We will take it to Senate. We will take it to Tigania. We will take it to Imenti. We will take it to Igembe and we will take it to the whole county. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you very much. Madam Governor, what transpired after those utterances were made against you and connecting you to the death of Sniper? Kindly as you answer that be mindful of the fact that it is an issue that is alive in court.

After a lot of public rallies and leaders accusing me of killing Sniper, a team from the Directorate of Criminal Investigation (DCI) came to my place. They searched everybody, took all our phones and made even my last son, who is 16 years, to write a statement on the same. After that, they arrested my younger brother. I tried to ask them as to why they did so and they said the investigation was still on. I believe that justice will be served as we serve justice to Sniper’s family, my brother will also be served with justice. To me, I have never even thought of killing; leave alone killing, even thinking about it is very far from me.

Thank you. So, is it your evidence that you were thoroughly investigated and you have not personally been in any way connected to this matter and you have not faced any charges?

I have not faced any charges. I did not even record a statement on the same. They came to our place; that is the Governor's official residence, did the investigations and went away.

Counsel for the Governor, I am informed your time is up. What do you say?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am truly saddened by that fact. I know we have had serious issues of mismanagement of time; that is a fault on our side. If I can have just 10 minutes with your kind permission, this is a very crucial witness. She is the Governor who is facing the charges. I believe that 10 minutes will do us justice in this matter. I will be done in 10 minutes.

Since it is her career that is on the line and she only has today to fight for it, I will give you 20 minutes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am really obliged. Madam Governor, so you confirm that the criminal investigative agencies within the country were involved in this process?

Yes, the criminal investigative agencies were involved and they came to Meru for more than a month to do the investigations.

By the time those utterances were made by the people we have seen, had investigations been concluded or begun?

They had not even begun.

They had not begun?

Yes.

Did you make utterances during the course of the investigations? Did you make any public statements in respect to the issue during the course of investigations? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

The only public utterance that I made is about the amount that was raised during that time.

During that time?

Yes.

Thank you. Madam Governor. We have been told that you have caused a lot of problems to the widow of the deceased by claiming that she is cohabiting with a MCA. What do you say about that issue?

That is very wrong. I have never uttered such. Perhaps they think by the time I said that Sniper's wife was being hosted by an MCA, they thought that I was alleging a male MCA, which was not.

Which was not the case?

Yes.

We have seen in the clips saying that they will take that body to various places. Have you witnessed them doing exactly that? If they have done that, who has done that and what is the target?

The target was just to victimize the Governor. They had the purpose that immediately they raise alarm and also continue telling people lies that I murdered Sniper, I will take plea and immediately they will bring another impeachment Motion out of that.

Madam Governor, there is an accused person in that murder, one Chris Kiambi and you have been told that you have continued to pay him despite him being a murder suspect. Number one, I want you to confirm if you know the said individual and if he works in your office.

I learnt after the investigations were over that he is an employee of the county government in the Department of Communication.

There is a letter of appointment that appears at volume VI of the County Assembly's documents. Who is the author of that letter of appointment?

It is Virginia Kawira, Secretary, Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Meru County Public Service Board.

Was that position in your understanding a competitive process or those are among one of the staff that work directly under you?

It was a competitive position.

An issue was raised and I know it will come up during cross- examination of your association with the main suspect in that murder case, one Supuu. Have you adduced evidence to show that he is not a member of your staff neither does he work for the county?

Yes, he is not a member of my staff. He does not even work in our county.

What would be the connection between him and the County of Meru? Was he ever employed by the county?

The CPSB advertised various positions. He was among the people who were appointed by then. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Immediately after they went to check on his papers, according to the letter that I see and I also saw from the County Secretary, it was a fake degree. For that reason, the CPSB immediately revoked the appointment.

Where is that letter found, in volume?

Volume II.

Of the county government's document at what page?

On page 454.

So, would you be having any association with the same individual?

Not at all.

Finally, on that issue, Madam Governor, what are your sentiments towards the family of the late Sniper? It has been argued that you have not made any utterances or directed your feelings towards the family. What would you say and had you even done that previously?

I did it previously. I also repeat that I am sorry about the family. In fact, I am I went out of my way to ask for justice for the same family. This is a young family that is not able. The reason as to why I went to the media to give my stand is that I saw some kind of mishandling and stealing from the same family. They were doing it for politics and not to assist the family.

Your utterances in that press statement, were they directed at the family or to whom were they directed?

My utterances were directed to the general public of Meru.

Thank you. Let us go to the last count of abuse of office. You have been accused of employing a bloated workforce. Did you stand before the Senate last year to answer to the same charges?

Yes, I was here for the same charges.

Were you found guilty of those charges?

Not guilty.

A list was produced here of the names that you have purportedly employed. Was it the same list that was produced last year purporting that you had a bloated workforce?

It was the same list that was brought here.

Let me go back to the issue of paying Kiambi Christus Manyara. You have been accused of not taking any disciplinary action against the said individual despite him facing criminal charges. Do you have powers to take disciplinary action against an individual who has been accused of any criminal offence as a governor?

I do not believe I have any powers to do that.

Who should take disciplinary action in your understanding? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I think it is the CPSB.

To the best of your knowledge, has that issue been brought to the attention of the CPSB for their attention?

The issue has not been brought to the CPSB. If there is any, maybe they could have informed me.

We also watched clips by the Mover of the Motion touching on two main issues. One is the issue of the death of 20 cows within your county that died because of an outbreak of a skin disease. Are you aware of that issue and what have you done in respect to it? Do you have any data of any form?

I saw the issue on this screen yesterday. For the veterinary services that we offer in Meru County, for the last two financial years, we have vaccinated over 200,000 against various diseases. I only saw the clip, but I did not see any dead cow or even people supporting the same.

You are also accused of poor service delivery where even mothers within your County, specifically within Kiguchwa Hospital, are giving birth by the roadside. Are you aware of that incident and what have you done about it?

I also saw the incident yesterday. Kiguchwa is not a Level 4 or Level 3 facility. It is just a dispensary. We are putting up a maternity facility. Perhaps the woman that went to that place was also assisted by the person in charge of that facility. As I said, it has no maternity wing.

Thank you. Madam Governor, I have less than 10 minutes. You have brought several witnesses to testify in support of your case. One of those witnesses is Mheshimiwa Evans Mawira. It has been alleged by the County Assembly that you have procured this witness by way of buying his loyalty. What would you say about that specific allegation?

The allegation is wrong because I do not see if I am able to buy any MCA. Immediately after the third impeachment Motion, I called Mr. Mawira as the majority leader then, to bring us together and also bring other MCAs as their leader. From that time, he has faced many challenges. As he said, joining this other camp and refusing to fight the government.

This is your third impeachment Motion, Madam Governor. At the point when you were first brought to the Senate, how many MCAs did you have in your team that would support anything that the County Executive would do? How many MCAs did you have?

Having been elected as an independent candidate, the first time the impeachment Motion was brought here, I had only one out of 69 MCAs. I did a lot of effort to bring them together. In the second impeachment Motion, I had 10 of them. After, the second impeachment, I went ahead and tried to see how we can work with them together. I can proudly say that up to now, I have 23 MCAs on my side.

The 23 MCAs are out of what membership of the County Assembly?

Out of 69. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

What other efforts have you made to bring about unity and reconciliation in the Meru County?

From the first impeachment, the issues raised were about the first gentleman of Meru County. We discussed as a family and agreed that he will never participate in any county meeting apart from accompanying me to the church. This was to make sure that the MCAs are comfortable with me. The issue of first gentleman appeared in this Senate. We, therefore, sat as a family and agreed that it was over for him attending any meetings that pertained to the county. Again, I thought it was the issue of money because it was raised in this Senate. The first financial year, that is 2022/2023, we allocated Kshs10 million per every ward on the equalisation or ward fund. They call it ward fund. They said it was not enough. I went ahead and increased it by Kshs5 million up to Kshs15 million. Again, they said that the money was not enough and wanted more money. This financial year, we have given every ward that Kshs33 million to see if at all there will be peace in Meru County. I took those two steps as early as I realized that there were issues with the MCAs. There is also an issue raised that I should have stopped my programmes that I do with the church. That is the Okolea programme where we go as a church and donate cows, blankets and mattresses to the poor. Again, the MCAs and the leadership was not happy with the programme. They said I should stop it and not continue doing anything to do with the charity work in Meru County. For the sake of unity and bringing people together, I stopped my charity work that I have been doing for the last 15 years. I have taken many steps to see that we work together, including writing to the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations of this Senate to come to Meru County and see what is the problem. I wrote twice to the committee, but to my surprise, I am still waiting to see if they will come and see the issues that are ailing Meru County. Immediately after that second impeachment, I went across Meru County, saying sorry if I had wronged anyone. In fact, at one point, I said sorry 70 times, each sorry for every MCA and another one for the Speaker. I asked for forgiveness so that the county would take progress. I want to thank this honourable House for the advice that they gave me to go and try and sit with every leader. I started with the Njuri Ncheke. I went to them and they asked for a sitting. We sat and talked, and then amended everything that was not going well. I sat with the Members of Parliament (MPs) and every leader in Meru County. The only person who did not avail himself for a sitting to see that Meru County moves forward is the hon. Senator of this House. We have sat and talked with the rest. We have no issues at all.

Madam Governor, yet you are here yet again even after all those efforts. Clearly, the Senators might be inclined to think that you have a problem. The people of Meru and across the country imagine that you are the one with the problem. Where is the problem, then? Why are you here? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Maybe I am here because of various reasons. One is the threats and intimidation to the hon. MCAs, as the witness who has just left the stand said. Number two, is about the external forces from the leaders at the county level. We have many leaders from the county level. You have seen them in the clips. Maybe, you will play another clip that one of them is saying, the Senator--- However, I need protection for this because I might land myself in problem.

You can make the application directly to the Speaker for that line.

Hon. Governor, you shall not be victimized for whatever you say as long as it is truthful and in line with the oath that you have just taken.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker and the hon. Senators. Since I am here, let me say the truth. The issue of MCAs in Meru County, one leader who is trying to fuel and bring disharmony is no one else, but the Deputy Speaker of this House. Several times I have tried to reach to him, so that I can at least say sorry to him, but he does not avail himself. I tried to reach the Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations Committee of this House to come to Meru County, but he said through his people, that at no time the Committee will come to Meru County until he gives a green light for the same. This hon. Senator, the Deputy Speaker of this House, is heard in many meetings like in the video clip we have just seen--- The MCAs were planning on how to impeach the governor immediately after we left here, and then they ask for comments from the hon. Deputy Speaker of this House. In the video clip that has been played here, he stands and says, “We as circumcised men. We will make sure that we assist hon. Members in whatever way.” The assistance that he gives to the MCAs is to make sure that they impeach me as many times as possible. In fact, he promises them that immediately they leave River Kavitha to this end, he will take care of this House. I do not know how he will take care of this House, but hon. Senators, the Deputy Speaker, my Senator whom I give a lot of respect, has greatly interfered with the running of the County Government of Meru.

Are you saying that your Senator who also happens to be my Senator, is behind your problems in Meru County?

We can play the clip.

Kindly, let us play that clip.

It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. We do not need to play the clip.

Yes.

Thank you, Madam Governor. Do you think that devolution works in Meru County with you as the governor or the only solution is for you to vacate your seat and give it to someone else so that we can have peace? Do you think there is a working relationship, especially with the County Assembly of Meru because that is where your focus should be? Do you think there is that working relationship? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Concerning the working relationship or progress in Meru County, I have said that I started with one MCA, then went to nine MCAs and now I have 23 MCAs.

Counsel for Governor, conclude. Your time is up.

That was my last question. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I yield the witness for cross-examination.

Counsel for County Assembly, proceed for cross- examination.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg your indulgence to advise us on extension of time. We had agreed previously there shall be equality of time. However, I leave it to you so that as we progress, you will consider.

Just utilize your 20 minutes first. At the end of the 20 minutes, you know exactly what you need to do.

I am well guided, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Governor, good evening. The last time you were here, you indicated that you were a victim of misogyny. Do you remember?

Yes.

Do you still hold that preposition, this afternoon?

Yes.

You still hold the position that you are a victim of the gender card and it is because of the gender card, that you have always been brought before this Assembly?

Yes.

Do you reckon that the Mover of the Motion was a woman?

Yes.

Do you reckon that the Motion was equally supported by the men and women, the MCAs of the Meru County?

Yes.

Yet, you still hold the preposition that you are a victim of gender and should female governors be held to account?

Yes, they should.

Should they be told when they are wrong?

Yes, they should.

Are they bound by the law?

Yes, they are bound.

Are they exempted by any clause that you know of?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Therefore, when we tell you that you illegally revoked the appointment of Virginia Kawira and that you contravened Section 58(4)(5) and Section 59(a) of the County Governments Act. How is that victimization? How do we victimize you as a woman when we say you violated Sections 58 and 59?

I did not violate any section. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Listen to my question. How do we victimize you? I am not asking whether you violated. I am asking how do we victimize you as a woman? I know you did not violate and that is why you are putting a defence. The question is, how have we victimized you?

I did not violate---

That you have said. The question is, how did we victimize you? Tukisema kwamba umevunja hii sheria naumesema hujavunja sheria hii,tumekuonea vipi eti kwa sababu wewe ni gavana mwanamke?

Ni kwa sababu sijavunja sheria yeyote ile hamjanionea.

You are not understanding my question. The question is about victimization. How have we victimized you?

I am understanding.

The counsel has tried to put it in English and Swahili, but it is not sinking well. I wish I could allow Kimeru, but that language is not allowed here. Let me try to assist the witness maybe to understand. If a governor breaches the law and is held to account, if it happens that governor is a woman, is she being victimized?

She is not.

Counsel, have I?

Thank you for the indulgence. I enjoy from your wisdom of having practiced many years of law, Senior Counsel. You sat through of one Linda Kiome and you heard that she distanced herself from that particular letter?

Yes.

You were given leave to bring or to produce the original letter. Correct?

Yes.

Have you produced it before the Senate this afternoon?

I made calls, but I have not produced the letter.

Thank you. Who is in custody of that original letter?

I think the office of the legal advisor?

Think or know? Who is in custody of that letter?

I have a secretary.

Is that secretary within your reach?

She is in Meru.

Is she within your reach?

She is within my reach.

Did you communicate to her that it was important to have that letter produced before the Senate? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I communicated to her and she said that she had given the letter to the legal team that was preparing.

So, the letter was still within the custody of the legal team?

So that they can have a copy.

Have they produced it?

They have produced a copy.

Have they produced the original letter?

They have not.

How can we tell and how can you dispute the allegation of forgery? How can you distance yourself with the allegation of forgery in that letter?

There was no forgery in that letter.

In the absence of the original letter, how can you distance yourself from that letter?

It was asked a few minutes ago and because it is in Meru, we needed to do some arrangements.

You cannot distance yourself from that letter in the absence of the original and you cannot distance yourself from the allegation of forgery in the absence of the original letter?

I can distance myself.

When do you allege that the advisory was given? Is it your testimony that it was given on 23rd February, 2024?

Yes.

When did you begin having problems with Ms. Linda.

Way back.

Which specific date?

I do not remember the date.

Do you remember issuing a notice after intention to terminate her services?

No.

I will remind you that on 26th March, 2024, you issued a notice of intention to terminate her services and at that particular time, your relationship with Linda had already starting going south. Correct?

Not completely.

Let us look at that letter. You indicate that the reason for the termination is due to her perennial unavailability to offer legal services. You also say that when the governor raised this concern over the same issue in December--- It is an independent letter annexed to the affidavit of Linda, which was filed yesterday.

Ms. Linda’s affidavit is an independent document and is not contained in any of those volumes, but it was circulated. If you do not have a copy, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

kindly make available a copy to hon. Orwoba. Is there any other Senator who does not have a copy of Ms. Linda’s affidavit?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, may we freeze time?

Make a copy available to Sen. Omogeni and Sen. Orwoba. Proceed, Counsel.

That annexure indicated as office of the Governor, a letter dated 26th March, 2024, which is on the last page, indicated as notice of intention to terminate your services. Have you seen it?

Yes.

Did that letter originate from your office?

From the chief of staff.

From the office of the governor?

Yes.

This is an officer who was working under you?

Yes.

The chief of staff works under your instructions, yes?

Yes.

She cannot execute any functions without you having indicated or given instructions, correct?

Yes.

As such, therefore, this letter originated pursuant to your instructions, yes?

Yes.

Therefore, you are indicating that you have a problem with Ms. Linda due to her perennial unavailability to offer advice, correct?

True.

So, on this particular day, where was Ms. Linda when issuing this advisory?

I do not know.

You do not know?

No.

Did you instruct her to issue this advisory?

Who now?

You. Did you instruct her to issue this advisory?

Her or he?

Did you instruct Ms. Linda to issue the advisory dated the 23rdof February?

I called the legal advisor, that is Ms. Linda and also---

So, you instructed her, correct?

Governor, it is either a ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

I asked for advice from them.

I am asking a simple question. Did you instruct her?

Yes.

What was the mode of communication?

One-on-one.

One-on-one, on that particular day?

Not that particular day, but earlier

When did you seek this advisory?

After maybe three days.

When did you seek the advisory?

I cannot remember the date.

What triggered you to seek this advisory? What had caused the need to seek this advisory?

There was an allegation that Virginia Kawira was holding two positions.

Are you the one who sent out this advisory? Are you the one who called for it?

I called Ms. Linda and asked for advice.

Was the revocation of Ms. Linda done pursuant to the provisions of the law?

Yes.

Do you know what the law says in terms of the revocation of a member of a board?

Yes.

You understand that you cannot revoke an appointment of a member of a board without a resolution of the County Assembly, correct?

It is not true.

Just show her the law. Read it out for her.

Are we talking about Ms. Linda or Ms. Virginia?

Ms. Virginia. I am on Ms. Virginia. Would you read Section 58(5)?

The members of the board may only be removed from office- (a) On grounds set out for the removal of members of a Constitutional Commission under Article 25(1) of the Constitution and via a vote of not less than 75 per cent.

A vote of not less than 75.

Per cent. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

We have two ways of removing a person from an office, correct?

I revoked, not removed.

When you revoked, did she leave the office?

She went to court.

I am asking, when you revoked, assuming that she did not go to court, was she to leave the office?

After revoking, she was not supposed to leave the office.

Ulipo revoke hiyo barua yake, ulitarajia atarudi ofisini siku nyingine?

Nilitarajia atachagua kazi moja kati ya kazi mbili alizokuwa anashikilia.

Haukutarajia kwamba hatarudi kwa hiyo ofisi? Kweli?

Nilimpatia achague atarudi kwa ofisi gani.

Naomba ujibu swali langu. Nimekuuliza vizuri sana. Ulitarajia kwamba atarudi kwa ile ofisi yake awe CEO wa Board tena?

Yes.

Ulitarajia vipi nausha revoke ?

Revoking is not dismissing.

I understand English. My question is, whether you dismiss, whether you revoke, the ultimate result is that she is going to leave that office. She is going to be removed from that office, correct?

She would not leave that office if she had left the job that she was holding.

The revocation was done under which law? Which law did you invoke when revoking that appointment?

The law that makes me an appointee for the CEO.

The laws in Kenya are known. We know all the laws. Which law specifically did you invoke? Show us from that purported advisory, which law was invoked while purporting to revoke. Have a look at that advisory and lead us to the law from that particular lawyer who advised you that a revocation can ensue. Which law did he/she invoke?

The legal advisor is Ms. Linda. I knew the law that she used.

Yes, I understand. Which law did she invoke in her advisory? Can you see what she is saying, I am relying on the County Government Act.

No.

The last paragraph of that letter. Kindly show Madam Governor. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

This is Ms. Linda’s affidavit.

Madam Governor, be patient. You will be shown where to read.

Proceed Counsel. Sen. Orwoba, you do not shout. If we have not given you any permission to speak, you stay silent.

Can you see where it is written? In rendering this legal advice, I am relying on the County Governments Act. Correct?

Yes.

Has she quoted any provision?

No.

Did you hear her say that this is a mediocre advice? Therefore, she distanced herself from this mediocrity.

She cannot distance herself from this.

I am asking; did you hear her saying it is mediocre?

Yes.

Do you understand why it is mediocre? It is because she is not referenced in any law. I put it to you that the letter is referred to as mediocre because it is not referred to any law and it was done by an amateur.

I am not a legal expert. That is why I sought legal advice.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could we have video number 11, in the County Assembly videos played, from second 12. As we await that video, it is your testimony that there is proper delivery of services in Meru County, correct?

Yes.

There is no hue and cry, whatsoever in nature, correct?

Maybe there are some parts.

Yes, there is no hue and cry, correct? All services are flowing smoothly according to you, correct?

Yes.

Including the health sector, correct?

Yes.

Play at second 12 and you confirm that facility has no maternity ward, correct?

We are putting it up, it is not yet finished.

Have a look.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

We are just interested in that writing on the wall, we do not even need an interpreter.

That is a new block.

Wait, I have not put a question to you. Rudisha nyuma

. We are interested in where we have the Kiboshua Maternity Ward.

Madam Governor, would you kindly read out?

That is a new block, which is not even furnished.

Can you see where it is written, Kiboshua Maternity Ward?

It was written two months ago. Yes, I can see.

It is okay. Who opened this facility?

It has not been opened yet because it has no furniture.

Is this facility functional?

It is functional as a dispensary.

A dispensary that can take any emergency of whatever nature, correct?

No. Limited to some services.

We need an interpreter now. Let us have where the women are saying that a woman delivered on the road. Let the video be played.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need an interpreter.

Can you bring the interpreter to the House?

What is your issue, Sen. Gloria, as we wait for the interpreter to walk in? Keep it short.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the interest of this House, I hate to say this. However, we have been taking time out of the other team to get the interpretation for the visually impaired. I do not see why now when we are saying there is a visually impaired person in the interest of time, they are getting favoured to run clips without an interpreter. I am seeing as if there is a problem here. They should also stop badgering the witness. She should be allowed to answer the question. She is not being allowed to answer the questions. It is a common thing here.

Do we have the interpreter in the House? Sen. Orwoba, you have never registered yourself as a visually impaired Senator. Continue with the proceedings. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Kindly have the video played.

These are women from the village who are saying it is a big risk to the baby and the mother. I came here early in the morning at 4.00 a.m. as I was going to pray, I found women here---

We can stop at that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Have you heard what those women are saying? What are they saying?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): She was going for prayers and met a woman who was crying along the road.

Proceed to play the video.

I was going to church, but I did not even attend. I went looking for other women from the village. During delivery, the children were all over and we were chasing them, so that they could not join us in the process.

Thank you. We have heard what the women are saying. They are complaining that one of them is delivering along the roadside. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Did it catch you by surprise?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was also surprised.

You did not know about it, correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I saw it yesterday.

Thank you. You are the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Meru County Government. Correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): We have---

You are the CEO?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes.

Let us play video No. 1A at minute 242.

Are you the one speaking?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): That is very true.

What is the context of your address? Are you addressing the death of Sniper?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

You are distancing yourself from that person called ‘Supuu’ and stating that he has never worked in your office. Correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. He has never worked in my office

Do you still hold that position even this evening?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): He has never worked in my office

Let us look at the evidence in volume II of the County Assembly’s’ bundle of documents on page 430.

Counsel for the County Assembly, your time is up.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that has caught us by surprise. This is a crucial witness; we seek your indulgence and favour that you may grant us at least 20 more minutes, so that I can also yield to my friends to carry on with the rest.

Counsel for County Assembly, we have a deadline to beat. We have until midnight tonight to conclude this matter. We are not doing very well in terms of time management. Therefore, I will give you 10 more minutes.

Most obliged. Let us have a look at that document. Page 430, are you at page 430 Madam Governor? We can begin on page 429. That is the information that the individuals were charged with, correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Vincent Muriithi Karimi, alias ‘Supuu’, is one of the accused persons. Correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, he is one of the accused.

Is that the same Vincent Muriithi Karimi on page 430?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, he is.

Can you confirm that this is a Curriculum Vitae (CV) for Vincent Muriithi?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes.

Let us move to page 431. Can you see where it is written Baite TV?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza):Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Do you know Baite TV? Where does it broadcast from?

Yes. It broadcasts from Meru County.

Do you have any association with that particular station?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Kindly look at where we have the references. Can you see them?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Miriam Guantai. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

That is one of the references to Victor Muriithi. Correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes and Father Kaberia.

Do you know Miriam? Who is she?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know Miriam. She is a close relative.

Relative to who?

Relative to the Governor.

Who is she refereeing?

From this document she is referring Vincent Muriithi.

Does she not work as your Personal Assistant (PA)?

Yes, she does.

Do you still maintain that you do not know Vincent and that he does not work for you?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): He does not work for me.

Has he ever worked in the county government in any given time?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): He has never worked for the Meru County Government.

Let us go to page 443 of the same bundle of documents.That is a letter from the CPSB, correct?

Which page?

Hon. Senators, page 443.

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The CPSB is responsible of a placement, correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

That letter is an internal memo sent from the Meru CPSB to the chief of staff. Correct?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, it is an internal memo.

Does the chief of staff work under your office?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Can you see where you have serial number one?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can see.

Who is that?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): The first person? Vincent Muriithi. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Can you see what is written in the designation? What is he?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Assistant Director of Governor's Press.

Do you still maintain your position that he does not work for you?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. He does not work for me.

As I yield to my next Counsel; I put it to you that you are capable and have been a pathological liar who has always craved and hidden under the gender card. You have come before this Assembly to lie. Your witnesses have always lied and they have lied today. Yes?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): I will prove to you now---

Did you listen to the submissions or the response of the County Executive Committee Member (CECM) for Information Communication and Technology (ICT)?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Did you listen to that evidence?

From who?

Mr. Ibrahim.

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): Which Mr. Ibrahim?

Mr. Ibrahim Mutwiri.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Did you hear him confirming that he is a man of proper standing?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

And that has now been proved otherwise?

Hon. Kawira Mwangaza): He has not been proved.

Madam Governor, I yield to the next Counsel, but you shall not keep on lying. We shall not allow you to evade accountability on account of misogyny or on “it was not me”. I yield.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my name is Mr. Mawira. I will take the few minutes that are remaining. Madam Governor, in your opening statement, you said that the County Assembly defence consists of lies, correct?

Yes.

You said that it is a pure lies, correct?

Yes.

We have shown you evidence that the purported legal advice from the purported legal advisor is a lie. We have caught you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

lying. We have shown you further evidence that the letters that were purportedly written by the notorious County Secretary, but never received by the Office of the Clerk, which you purport in your evidence to have been received by the Office of the Clerk, are also outright forgeries. We have also shown you evidence, contrary to what you say in that video, that you do not know Vincent Mureithi alias Supuu. We have shown you evidence that that person has actually worked under your office.

I know Supuu, but he has never worked in my office.

Wait for the question, Madam Governor. Do you still maintain that despite all these lies and inconsistencies in your evidence, it is the County Assembly that is lying?

There are no lies.

Okay. Madam Governor, for the benefit of time, we will not play it, but there is a video in your bundle of videos where you did a tour. After the last impeachment proceedings, you went to Meru and you were addressing a rally from the top of a car, correct?

Yes.

Is that your best available evidence of your reconciliation efforts?

It is among the best available evidences.

Have you presented all the other evidences before this Senate?

Yes.

Where are they? Madam Governor, turn with me to page 394 of our volume IV. As you open that, also open page 558 of the said volume. Show them to the Governor. This is a recommendation by the County Assembly, which I will read and you will agree with me that a sub-vote be established within the Office of the Governor to provide a budget for the Deputy Governor. Is that correct?

Yes.

This recommendation was made to the County Treasury, correct?

Yes.

The Head of the County Treasury is Mr. Ibrahim who testified in the morning in your favour, correct?

Yes.

On page 558, this is the report on the Meru County Budget Appropriation Bill No.2 of 2024. You will agree with me that the committee noted that the CECM Finance did not adhere to that resolution at No.16. That is on page 558, correct?

Yes.

Madam Governor, if your evidence is that you are the foremost peacemaker and that you have made all attempts for reconciliation, why The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

would you allow your CECM to deny the Office of the Deputy Governor a budgetif indeed you want to reconcile with the Deputy Governor and all other leaders?

First, Deputy Governor does not have a vote. Secondly, the amount allocated to the Governor is for both the Deputy Governor and the Governor.

You did not get my question. Why would you deny that office which is still within your office?

We have never denied that office a budget.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will leave it to the interpretation by the House. I ask that video 1B in our bundle of videos be played for my last question.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your indulgence to get a translator. This is my last question.

It is rendered in English, proceed.

The video can be played.

Counsel, your time is up. Take a minute to conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Who is speaking in that video, Madam Governor?

Myself.

Proceed, Counsel. Sen. Gloria, you are out of order and I am giving you a caution.

Madam Governor, the posture you have taken in that video is quite different from the posture you have taken in the witness stand. Would you say you were sensitive to the plight of that family?

No.

You agree that you were not sensitive. Thank you for that answer.What evidence have you placed before this honourable House to prove or show that, indeed, Kshs86 million was raised?

There is a video clip.

No, evidence of money, not a video clip.

Evidence of money in the video clip.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for listening to me. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate.

Counsel for the Governor, you may re-examine. You have five minutes to do that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will be very brief with the governor. Madam Governor, you have been taken through a series of questions about a number of issues. Is the murder of Sniper subject of this impeachment? Has there been any accusation in the Notice of Motion about your involvement to the murder?

No.

Secondly, you have been put to task about certain employees of the County Government of Meru, one of them being Vincent Mureithi. Again, in the impeachment Motion, is the issue of the employment of Vincent Moreithi featured anywhere in the Notice of Motion? Is it an accusation you are facing?

Not featured anywhere.

Does it have any relevance in these proceedings?

It does not have any relevance.

Do you confirm that there is a murder trial that is taking place, as we speak, in respect to the unfortunate murder?

Very active one.

Thank you. You have been told about a facility within Kiguchwa Ward. Kindly clarify on the status of that ward. Is it an operational maternity wing or not?

It is not operational. We just finished construction the other day and yet to have the furniture so that it can start being operational.

Are you offering maternity services at the facility?

We are not offering maternity facilities there.

Thank you. Again, back to the issue of the employees of the county. How many employees do you have at the Meru County Government?

Almost 6,000.

Are you in charge of all these employees?