Hon. Members, I wish to make this Communication relating to a visit by a delegation of Mau Mau War Veterans.
Hon. Members, I wish to introduce to you a delegation of 21 members of the Mau
War Veterans Association who are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. The delegation is comprised of 21 members led by their leader, Dr. Gitu wa Kahengeri, OGH.
Hon. Members, they are in Parliament to engage with Members of Parliament ahead of the December 12th Jamhuri Day Celebrations. Please, join me in welcoming them to the National Assembly. Members are invited to join the Veterans for a cup of tea later at 4.15 p.m. in the Members’ Dining Room. I thank you.
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker, for giving the Message from the Senate. We need your guidance. This House has two Messages to the Senate in the form of a Bill from Private Members. One is the Bill concerning Public Procurement and Disposal Act by hon. Sakaja. There was the Fertiliser and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill by hon. Chris Wamalwa. In the documents shown at the House Business Committee (HBC), those Messages were sent to the Senate; one in April and one in June. So, hon. Speaker, we need your direction. What is the timeline? When will the Senate expedite those two Bills?
Secondly, in your Message, you were very categorical that the Bill should be referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee to decide whether it is a money Bill. At what stage is the determination of a money Bill made? That is because the Constitution is very clear. Article 109 (5) of the Constitution says--- If you allow me, I will read. It reads:-
“A Bill may be introduced by any member or committee of the relevant House of Parliament, but a money Bill may be introduced only in the National Assembly in accordance with Article 114.”
Hon. Speaker, I heard you saying that the Bill from the Senate will be referred to the Budget and Appropriations Committee for determination on whether it is a money Bill. But what happens if that determination is in the affirmative? That it is a money Bill! Will that not contravene Article 109 (5)? That is because all money Bills must, first, originate from the National Assembly. So, on the same note, I think you and your colleague, the Speaker of the Senate, must come to an agreement. That is because I can provide to the House more than five Bills that fall under Article 109 (5), and which are money Bills. They are already being discussed in the Senate. At the same time, there are Bills which are being discussed in the Senate and are of the National Assembly. So, there are a lot of issues. But I want to you tell us:- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(i) What happened to the two Bills from Private Members that were sent to the Senate in April and June? (ii) How can a determination of a Bill be made by the National Assembly’s Budget and Appropriation Committee, on whether that Bill is a money bill, when the Constitution has expressed itself under Article 109(5)?
Well, the Leader of Majority Party, you are absolutely right. One of the issues you have raised will require an administrative intervention; that is the Clerk of the National Assembly to write to the Senate to inquire on what has become of those Bills that you have mentioned; that were referred to that other House for consideration in a manner that anybody in their minds must have understood that it was the process of making a law. That is because they were not referred there for any other purpose. They were referred there so that, that House considers them and brings them back to us. They should bring back to this House their recommendations; whether they are in agreement with the Bills as passed by the National Assembly or they are not in agreement; in which case then Articles 112 and 113 of the Constitution would set in. But the second part is one that is of great constitutional moment. That is because it refers to a situation in which a Bill may have commenced in the wrong place. If it did, then, obviously, the Constitution has been breached and we cannot, ourselves, consider it.
Order, hon. Members! I do appreciate that there may be--- Hon. Millie Odhiambo, what is your point of order? There is some excitement! You want to offer an explanation?
Yes, hon. Speaker. I just wanted to inform the House that the new Chairman for the ODM Party just walked in! For us, the way we recognise him, we call him: “Chairman dwa !”
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
That is not parliamentary! The latter bit of what you have said is not a language known to Parliament! So, hon. Leader of Majority Party, I think we will give a written communication on Tuesday. Clerk, let us get a written communication on the issue of the Bills in the manner in which hon. Duale has raised. So, you can get the team working.
Order, hon. Members! Consult in lower tones, including those who may be excited about new positions, which may have happened by the wayside but, nevertheless, they have every reason to be happy!
Hon. Speaker, hon. Mbadi is only leading a faction of another faction of the many factions! Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today Tuesday, 25th November, 2014:-
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kenya Sugar Research Foundation for the year ended 30th June, 2013 and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Kenya National Commission on Human Rights for the year ended 30th June, 2013 and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Orange Democratic Movement for the year ended 30th June, 2012, and the---
Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Speaker, this is 2012, when my good friend Henry Kosgey was the Chair.
Order, hon. Members! It is out of order for hon. John Mbadi, notwithstanding his new position and status to---
Surely, we expect John Mbadi now to behave with greater decorum, now that he has assumed some higher office!
Hon. Speaker, it is a very small factional office!
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Orange Democratic Movement for the year ended 30th June, 2012, and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kenya Social Congress Party for the year ended 30th June, 2012, and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kibabii University College for the year ended 30th June, 2013, and the Certificate of the Auditor- General therein.
The Transition Authority Annual Report for the period 2012/2013
The Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Agricultural Finance Corporation for the year ended 30th June, 2012 and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
The Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Kenya Dairy Board for the year ended 30th June, 2012 and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Kenya Animal Genetic Resources Centre for the year ended 30th June, 2013, and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Members, there is too much consultations. It is too loud. Give hon.Gaichuhie time to lay his Papers. I also wanted you, as you lay those Papers, to inform the House what is contained therein.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House, today Tuesday, 25th November, 2014:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade on consideration of the County Governments (Assembly Bill, 2014) (Senate Bill No. 1 of 2014) Consideration of the County Governments (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 34 of 2014) Consideration of the Central Bank (Amendment) Bill 2014.
What I am trying to get hon. Gaichuhie to do, if hon. Nyamweya could stop talking to hon. (Ms.) Odhiambo-Mabona so closely--- Hon. Gaichuhie, some of these Bills have come from the Senate and one is a National Assembly Bill, could you just say what you are recommending?
Yes, hon. Speaker, that is what I want to say. Hon. Speaker, on 28th February, 2014, the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2014 was published, duly processed and passed by the Senate on 6th August, 2014. The Bill was thereafter forwarded to the National Assembly for processing pursuant to Order No. 143. On 28th August, 2014, you informed the House that you had received the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (Senate Bill No. 1 of 2014) and directed that the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade considers---
What are you recommending?
Hon. Speaker, after considering the Bill, the Committee has actually rejected it.
The Committee has rejected the Bill?
That is the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (Senate Bill No. 1 of 2014)?
The Committee rejected the Bill.
Hon. Members, it is absolutely important that you get to know what the Committee is recommending. Hon. Members are not in the mood to listen to anything. It is absolutely important that hon. Members know what the Committee is recommending. The Committee is recommending a rejection of that Senate Bill No. 1. Proceed, hon. Gaicuhie. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Let the House be informed that we have rejected the Senate Bill No. 1 of 2014. The County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2014(National Assembly Bill Number 34 of 2014)---
Hon. Gaichuhie, just one second. The Leader of Majority Party, proceed.
The matter that hon. Gaichuhie is raising is serious and we must listen. Let us listen. The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security can do his business later. A serious Bill of the Senate is being rejected by a Committee of this House and it is better we listen to that Committee as they give us the reasons.
Hon. Members, I want every member to get a copy of that report. That is why I thought it is important that hon. Gaichuhie gives their recommendations to the House so that hon. Members can get copies of the report and see why the Committee recommends rejection. Proceed, hon. Gaichuhie.
Maybe what I would say is that in processing the Bill, the Committee invited views of the---
No, do not worry about that. You will do it when it comes to debate. What is the second recommendation?
On the second Bill, that is the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, 2014 (National Assembly Bill Number 34 of 2014), the Committee also rejected it.
That is the Bill proposed by hon. Keynan, is that correct?
So you also recommend a rejection?
That is the Bill seeking to get the National Assembly involved in the impeachment of governors, is that correct?
Exactly. The third one is a Bill proposed by hon. Kabando, that is consideration of the Central Bank (Amendment) Bill, 2014. It is on Treasury Bonds and automation of the Central Bank. The Committee actually agreed with the Bill.
Hon. Nyamweya, what is your point of order?
What has been brought to us for reading? We do not have anything available and all that the Committee has discussed should be available for us to go through so that we are informed. As much as he has tabled the Report, it should be circulated to us so that we can read it and understand what they are recommending.
Hon. Nyamweya, I thought you said you have served in the 10th Parliament for two-and-a-half years. Before the Report is tabled, nothing can be circulated. I am sure that is one of the things you learnt in the 10th Parliament which you served for two-and-a-half years. So, it is now that it has been tabled that we can ask the Clerk to make available copies to hon. Members. Let us have another report by hon. Lentoimaga. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, November 25, 2014:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on the consideration of the Public Service Values and Principles Bill, 2014.
Very well, next Order. Hon. Farah, you have the Floor
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 33(1), I wish to seek leave to give notice for adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing the deteriorating security situation in the country. THAT, recognising that national security entails protection against internal and external threats to Kenya’s territorial integrity and sovereignty, its people, their rights, freedoms, property, peace, stability and prosperity and other national interests in accordance with Article 238 (1) of the Constitution; aware that recent attacks in Kapedo on the border of Baringo and Turkana counties, Mombasa, Malindi and Mandera have resulted in killing and maiming of innocent Kenyans in cold blood, destruction of property and destruction of social order; deeply concerned that these incidences of insecurity being perpetrated by armed persons and terrorist groups are a serious threat to the national security, stability and prosperity; and cognisant of the fact that economic activities and public service delivery in areas prone to insecurity is on near paralysis due to continued threats on businesses and professionals stationed in the above mentioned areas, this House adjourns to discuss the state of security in the country and urges the Government to urgently take all necessary measures to restore and maintain national security. Thank you.
Do you have anybody supporting you?
Alright, hon. Members, resume your seats. Hon. Members, I do appreciate that hon. Farah has the requisite support. I imagine that even those who did not rise in their places are those ones who did not hear what it is he was moving and so they are also forgiven. But at this point I am not required to put any Question. That is your own Standing Orders. So there cannot be anything out of order merely because he has proposed and what the requirement is that he gets the support and he has the support.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Let me remind you, hon. Speaker.
There is nothing you can remind me certainly merely because of what some people are claiming happened. That cannot be the reason to remind me. Hon. Bosire, the requirement of the Standing Order is that once the hon. Member has the requisite support, the Speaker is required to appoint a time. Obviously, the matter is definite and urgent and nobody can even doubt that.
Hon. Members, even then, I am not required to receive your suggestions. It is your own Standing Orders. If you intended that the Speaker would get suggestions, you should have provided that way. I will appoint that the House will adjourn at 5.00 p.m. or any such earlier time as the House will have finished transacting the business listed in Order No 10. Already 20 hon. Members have contributed to that debate. So, such time as you will have completed debating the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly, Bill No. 31 of 2014). If you clear it in the next 30 minutes, the House will adjourn to debate the Motion by hon. Farah. But if you do not finish at exactly 5.00 p.m., the House will adjourn to debate the Motion; that is if debate on this business listed as No.10 goes up to 5.00 p.m. If it is concluded earlier then the House will be moved to adjourn and discuss the Motion by hon. Farah. I hope that is clear.
Not on this hon. Lati. Let us just wait for that time. I am trying to give you as much time as possible to debate that Motion. I appreciate the level of interest and I hope that by the time the Motion is moved, you will also agree on time limitation so that you have as many hon. Members as possible contributing to the debate. Next Order!
Leader of Majority Party, you are indicated to make some Statements on San Marco?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I have no Statement to make but I will make one in my contribution on the Adjournment Motion; on what happened in Naivasha and for my friend hon. Mbadi, I congratulate him. Hon. Speaker: Very well, next Order.
Hon. Members, I am doubtful that even our HANSARD Reporters are able to know what is happening. Is it not possible for hon. Members to consult in lower tones?
According to the records, hon. Kimaru has a balance of eight minutes. Is the hon. Member in the Chamber? If the hon. Member is in the Chamber, he has a balance of eight minutes. If he is not, he forfeits his eight minutes and any hon. Member is at liberty to contribute.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna, what is out of order?
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. I would like to propose that the time for contribution be reduced for each hon. Member to five minutes. That is my proposal so that we can complete the contribution and then move to speak to the next matter on insecurity which is very important.
Hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna, this is resumption of debate so that should have been made at the commencement of the Motion. Already 20 hon. Members have contributed, so it cannot change. The rules cannot change mainstream. Are there points of order?
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. Would I be in order, since I have not contributed to this debate, to call upon the Mover to reply so that we move on to the next issue?
The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee is about to contribute. Proceed, hon. (Ms.) Abdalla.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I beg to present the findings of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources on the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill, 2014. The Environmental Management and Co-ordination (EMCA) Act, 1999, was able to provide a legal framework for the environment and was able to coordinate the implementation of 77 stand- alone legislation on environment. The EMCA Act was also able to enforce The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
those existing legislations and provide alternative outlets to address environmental disputes. In fact, the EMCA Act, 1999, was the first Act that provided for public participation on environmental management. It was also ahead of its time, in that it provided for a relaxed law on the concept of locus standi . Hon. Members, as you remember in1989, the late hon. Wangari Maathai took the Kenya Times Trust to court so that they could not develop a highrise building in Uhuru Park. She lost the case based on the fact that she did not have locus standi . So, the Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act, 1999 relaxed that so that members of the public would be able to go to court when their right to a clean environment is infringed. Despite these positive and progressive provisions under the EMCA Act, it has now become necessary to review it so that it conforms to the Constitution; mainly the Fourth Schedule and the fact that we now have a devolved system of government. Hon. Speaker, the amendments in this new act are therefore intended to deal with incorporating environmental co-ordination in the county governments and also to reduce the number of institutions in this sector so that we can rationalise resource use and also strengthen dispute resolution mechanisms. The problem my Committee on Environment and Natural Resources encountered in reviewing this Bill is that we were presented with an amendment Bill that is amending 87 clauses of an Act with 147 clauses. This hindered our ability to think more broadly in dealing with these issues. We were further hindered by the timelines required by the Constitution and the fact that this Bill requires to go to the Senate. It became difficult to say: “Take it back and bring us a repeal Bill instead of an amendment Bill.” Hon. Speaker, with that in mind, it is clear that the Executive is the one at fault for having brought this Bill this late and we have had to work with what we have. As is tradition, the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources did put an advert and received both oral and written comments from stakeholders, which included from the Strathmore Governance Centre, the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution(CIC), the Council of Governors, Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA), the Public Complaints Committee and the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA). In our review of this Bill, we were very clear on the different roles of the two levels of government and that is what directed our amendment of the same. Hon. Speaker, when the Mover was moving, he did inform the House of exactly what this Bill is amending. So, I will only focus on the recommendations the Committee on Environment and Natural Resources will be making to this House because we have had more time to look at the Bill in details. I will only focus on what we are recommending to this House as a way forward. Hon. Speaker, the first area of recommendation is on the issue of institutional framework. The amendment Bill abolishes the National Environment Council. That is amendment number five. The Committee would like to share with the House that despite the fact that many stakeholders urged us to re-introduce this Council, we disagreed with them. We agreed to abolish this Council based on a constitutional provision that the power to make policy is an Executive function that lies with the Cabinet Secretary. We would, therefore, be going against the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 if we give that power The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
to the Council which did not even work and had many members in the past. It also had very few meetings because the meetings depended on the availability of the Minister. The next institution that has been proposed for abolition is the Public Complaints Committee (PCC). This is where members of the public can report maladministration by NEMA or by other individuals who may have infringed their right to a clean environment. The Committee disagrees with the amendment due to the fact that this is a cheap method for members of the public who do not have access to legal services. We were informed by members of the public that the Public Complaints Committee had overlapping roles with the Commission on Administrative Justice, better known as the Office of the Ombudsman. We disagree with that assertion based on the fact that the Commission on Administrative Justice is supposed to deal with maladministration that occurs when one does not receive services from public institutions, whereas the Public Complaints Committee can deal with individuals or corporations. So, a poor Wanjiku can go to the Public Complaints Committee to complain against the actions of a big corporation without having to incur extra cost. Hon. Speaker, we will further be requesting the House to give the Public Complaints Committee a further responsibility. They should also take complaints from people who cannot afford to pay for services when their environment is infringed. So, I look forward to having the House approve that amendment of not only re-establishing the Public Complaints Committee but also giving it the extra responsibility to push public interest in litigation on environment. The next institution that is proposed for abolition in this new Bill is the Standards and Enforcement Review Committee. The Committee agrees that the functions of the Standards and Enforcement Review Committee be shifted to the Cabinet Secretary. When NEMA came into place, it was supposed to be the co-ordinating institution and not the implementing institution. What has happened is that whenever NEMA takes an implementation role, they clash with new or existing institutions. One of the issues they are clashing about is the guidelines or standards to be met on air or water pollution and the rest. So, we believe that this Standards and Enforcement Review Committee has been the source of that conflict. So, we noted with concern that that is among the reasons we have taken too long. Whereas there are those issues like pesticides and radiation that have a lead agency, there are issues such as air pollution and waste management that do not have a lead agency. So, we want to retain that capacity of having to do standards with the Cabinet Secretary based on that understanding.
So, hon. Speaker, that is on institutions. There is also a major issue which, if you do not give me time, it will not be addressed. Every Tom, Dick and Harry goes for a two-weeks training and is suddenly an expert in Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA). The Committee on Environment and Natural Resources will be recommending the regulation of that sector so that there is a professional body and a mechanism to deal with the issue. Hon. Speaker, we will also be amending all the functions of NEMA so that we leave them with co-ordination functions only and not those of implementation.
Hon. Speaker, in appreciation of the constitutional function of the implementation of national Government policy, we will be shifting the county environment committees to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
be owned by counties. The presence of the national Government will only be in the form of a secretary, who will be the NEMA representative.
Another issue that we need to address is the fees paid for Environmental Impact Assessment. The fee is paid on the value of a project. A highly valued project might not have as much environmental impact as a smaller project with lower influences. Although these matters are in regulation, the Committee feels that the fees payable for Environmental Impact Assessment needs to be looked into. The stakeholders were very scared that if we kill the National Environment Council, how sure will we be that policy development will be done in a participatory manner? We will be urging the House to amend the Bill, to add that every Minister must show evidence of public participation in policy development and legislation.
On the issue of voluntary environmental assessments, our Committee intends to propose that there be an award process for people who do good environmental work without being asked.
The only change in institution that I have not spoken about is the fact that we are shifting the National Environment Trust Fund from being a statutory body under NEMA to an independent Fund. We are proposing streamlining of their functions.
With those many remarks, I support.
Hon. Members, my assumption is that all the names appearing are of Members who wish to contribute to this debate. So, I am following the requests. The first one is hon. Chrisantus Wamalwa Wakhungu.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Environment is something which is very critical. If I remember the words of the late Prof. Wangari Maathai, who was passionate and compassionate about the environment, she said that if you do not take care of nature, nature will destroy you. It is key that we should discuss this Bill, which is very critical. Right now, when you look at the new proposed sustainable development goals, you find that the matters of environment are highlighted. We have a lot of changes as far as the climate is concerned, because of the poor management of environment. I was keenly listening to the Chair of the Committee, because it is a committee which has done very good work as far as matters of environment is concerned. The good thing about these proposed amendments is on the issue of strategic environment impact analysis. It is critical that before any programme or project is done, we do an impact analysis. Environmental impact analysis is critical because it determines what is likely to happen to the environment and how the environment will be affected if a programme or project is implemented. Once that is done, we are going to rank it in terms of the risks. After ranking it, then it is supposed to come up with mitigating strategies. In many cases, projects come into existence and they create more harm than good. So, when such a Bill is there, it is indeed going to help. Consequently, the country is going to prepare itself as far as the issue of mitigating strategies is concerned. In line with the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, the county government has a role to play. This Bill has come out clearly that when it comes to the national environmental programmes, we have committees at the national level and we are also going to have others at the county level. The amendment that is being proposed here is in line with Chapter 11 of the Constitution. We cannot continue having the Provincial and District Environment Committees yet in the new Constitution we have nothing to do with The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
provinces and districts. That is why it is very critical. We must align it to the current Constitution. However, on the issue of the county, I wish that these committees could go further to have sub-county levels. In this case, we are referring to the constituencies. For example, in Busia County, we have different constituencies like Budalangi which is a sub-county. It has its own uniqueness. We want to propose that when it comes to the Committee of the whole House, so that we have the national and county committees and also sub-county committees. This should be a constituency, so that it can mitigate those different risks that are in a specific constituency. For instance, in Busia County, issues in Budalangi Constituency are totally different from the issues in Nambale and Matayos, yet they are within the same county. In line with the Jubilee policy of integrating parastatals, recently in Public Investments Committee (PIC), the name “National Environment Trust Fund” appeared before us, which we have never heard about. It does not have a mission. We did not see the vision and we challenged the CEO to tell us where he has been. We have never heard of him. We have some parastatals which are a liability to the Exchequer. It will be important that such parastatals in line with the Jubilee policy are integrated to reduce the wage bill. As the Chair has put it, NEMA is supposed to do co-ordination. It is not supposed to do implementation. Indeed, I agree with her. This issue of NEMA doing everything is going to be a big problem. You cannot be the one coordinating and at the same time implementing. We are seeing a lot of cases of corruption in NEMA. For example, when it comes to the impact assessment, they demand for some money. The levels of corruption are high because NEMA is involved in everything. We are saying that it must have these issues of specifics, so that we can know who is coordinating who and who is doing what for purposes of control. Environment is very critical. As the Chair has said, in memory of the late Prof. Wangari Maathai, who had gone to court, in some regions, the ground cannot support the height of the buildings, yet the people are constructing high buildings. High buildings are collapsing because the impact assessment was not done. When it comes to enforcement, the penalties that are suggested here are so lenient. People have lost lives. We know what happened at River Road. People are coming up with structures because of the demands of the tenants. Within a short period, the building is up and people are already occupying it. So, the penalties should be high to deter these people who want to make money quickly. We should not lose lives because of the careless way of handling the environment. I support.
Hon. Nyamweya, take the Floor. His card is present. Well, he forfeits his chance. Hon. John Munuve Mati.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I stand to support as a person who comes from an area that has had a lot of environmental degradation; there has been destruction of forests. I believe that this Bill will go a long way in safeguarding the livelihood of the people of Mwingi North, whom I represent. When it comes to the issue of licensing and NEMA encompassing everything, I get surprised when I look at the amount of pollution that is being meted on the people of Machakos through Athi River. All the companies that are polluting River Athi are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
licensed to do their operations in Nairobi, but all the effluent is going to Athi River. It goes down and destroys the lives of the people of Machakos County, all the way to Malindi County. I believe that this will go a long way in streamlining some of these situations. This House has repeatedly found out that coming up with counties has not necessarily decentralized matters to the people. County headquarters have become metropolis of the periphery in themselves. You find that in a certain county, the governor and his staff basically concentrate on the areas surrounding their offices. All the areas that did not vote for that particular governor are neglected. That is one of the causes of the protests that we have seen in the recent past about governors’ performance. I willingly agree with hon. Wakhungu that we should not stop at the county level. The sub-county should become an environmental operation area so that people can be in charge of their own matters of the environment in their own particular areas. Heaping a lot of weight on operationalization and implementation of environmental programmes at the county level may not necessarily trickle down to the sub-county level. Hon. Speaker, I strongly feel that when we go into Committee of the whole House, we should look at going further than the county. This is because, if we do away with NEMA and trust the governors to be able to operate the programmes, then I am afraid this country will be in serious trouble, just the way it will be if governors become in charge of security. For this reason, I would encourage my colleagues in Parliament, to think seriously about moving further rather than stopping at the county level. By that, it would empower people to be able to participate in environmental matters. Environmental matters in this country have actually been swept aside for a long time. We have had NEMA and a full-fledged Ministry but still, we have had massive destruction of the environment without anybody taking responsibility. In my constituency, we have Kitui North and Kora National Park. These are environmental disasters because the areas have been completely deforested. Everybody who comes to cut indigenous wood in Mwingi North National Park comes with a certificate from NEMA, thus making the whole place to become a desert. Basically, what we have seen in the recent past is that NEMA has been a source of environmental destruction. It is an institution that has basically certified the destruction of environment and enriched particular NEMA officials and some Provincial Administration officers. This could be the reason why some of ours areas have not been getting rain. With those few remarks, hon. Speaker, I would like to rest my case. Thank you.
Hon. Waiganjo, the Floor is yours.
Hon. Speaker, I am afraid, I have already debated this Bill.
You have already contributed? Let me read the names appearing here so that they in turn tell me whether they have contributed or not. Hon. Aden has already indicated to me that he has contributed. He is just but strategically placing himself for the other upcoming Bill. On the list, we have hon. Chanzu, have you contributed to this Bill?
Hon. Speaker, I have not contributed.
Hon. Mwaura, have you spoken to this Bill?
Hon. Speaker, I have not contributed.
Hon. Murungi, have you spoken to this Bill? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Speaker, I have not contributed.
Hon. Ogallo, have you spoken to this Bill?
Hon. Speaker, I have contributed.
Hon. Robert Mbui, the Floor is yours.
Hon. Speaker, I have not contributed.
Of course, I can see that because hon. Munuve has quickly inserted his card which I am sure it is for the next Motion. Hon. Chanzu, the Floor is yours.
Thank you, hon. Speaker for the opportunity to support the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill, 2014. Hon. Speaker, the environment means a lot to all of us, be it at the county level or globally. What we do is for our own good. It also contributes to what happens globally and, therefore, everybody must be cautious of what happens around us all the time. The most important thing is that, the Bill brings out issues that we need to pay attention to. Everybody who is supposed to participate in environmental conservation and management must know what roles they are supposed to play. At the national level, the issue of standards cannot be overlooked. The issue of standards is very important because the Government is involved at the national level. However, when it comes to managing various aspects, from place to place, be it constituency to constituency or from county to county, we must bring it down so that each suspect will be managed based on the prevailing situation. We had forests in a number of places, although they have been destroyed. This has now exposed us to a lot of weather effects. These are the areas that we really need to address so that, those who are in charge of conserving the environment, for example, forests, green vegetation and many others are able to do that. Hon. Speaker, I am also happy to note that there are penalties which have been introduced in this Bill and this will ensure that those who are involved in environmental destruction pay some penalties. Hon. Speaker, there is one very interesting aspect where I come from; Vihiga County. We had Maragoli Hills which were covered by a forest but it was destroyed. People now live on Maragoli Hills because erosion got rid of the vegetation and plantations which was there. Erosion left vegetation and stones exposed. Those who are trying to do farming and conservation of the forests cannot because it is all stones. There are those people who cut trees and sold them to the millers while others used them as firewood, thus leaving the place bare. This happened because there were no penalties for any person who destroyed the forest by felling trees. It is now good because we have penalties. Those who are caught destroying the environment are apprehended and punished. Hon. Speaker, the other thing is the level of participation. This is where this Bill talks about participatory environmental management, which is a very important aspect. Everybody who has got an opportunity to play a role is involved and this will allow an element of ownership in the process. If everybody feels they are involved, they are bound to take precautions in what they are doing. Hon. Speaker, the role of NEMA needs to be made clearer and this Bill is going to help us do that. There is the element of climate change, in which we have not had a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
good focus. This is the reason we are affected by climate change. If this is taken care of, as it has been, then it will be easier for us to focus on what is likely to happen in order to conserve the environment in a much better way. With those few remarks hon. Speaker, I beg to support.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. I want to congratulate the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources through the able Chairperson because in this 11th Parliament, they have brought very pertinent Bills and quite good ones in terms of streamlining environmental issues in this country; that needs to be recognised. This Bill is very timely in a sense that it is trying to consolidate the gains that are envisaged in the Constitution. It is trying to align already existing legislation with the Constitution. Most importantly, it is trying to do away with various provisions that created many committees that were actually taking away money from the public to do the same roles. I think this is very important. It goes to ensure that, indeed, we can assign roles to the already existing departments instead of creating new agencies and committees that will not enhance anything other than creating bureaucracy. This Bill is critical because it also recognises the change of the governance structure. It gives powers to governors to appoint members of the county environment committees. This is very critical in terms of sharing resources because one can very ably say that the onus of caring for the environment is both a national and county government matter. I think it will help the county executive in charge of the environment so that they have people they can work with. They can have people with expertise and even work with people who curb poaching, NGOs that deal with environmental issues and other stakeholders. One of the things that really stands out for me in this Bill is the fact that there is need to have strategic impact assessment for various policy programmes that the Government may want to undertake. This is very critical because sometimes when we are passing policies, when we are passing laws or implementing programmes, this is not put in place. I think just doing an environmental impact assessment may not be enough. I think it is important to look at the strategic issues that may arise, that may not just affect the immediate concerns of the environment but also long term issues. Hon. Speaker, this Bill seeks to empower the public to access information with regard to the environment. This is very progressive because you can see the right to freedom of information is being encouraged by this Bill. I think it will also be critical to see, for example, how approvals are made so that it can also help in curbing corruption in terms of how these orders or approvals are given. It also affects things to do with real estate development, land use and management which are very critical for onward development of our country. It is also important to say that now that the United Nations has been having the Education for Sustainable Development Millennium, such laws help to create coherent structure so that people can understand the nexus between environment and sustainability of development. That is one thing that sometimes people are not able to understand. Indeed, for us to ensure that we have sustainable development, we have the responsibility of taking care of what we have now and use it adequately. I hope and believe that with this kind of legislation and proper management, we are going to see a situation where we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
can take the advantage of renewable energy that we have in our country so that we can meet the energy needs. That way, we can sustain livelihoods and make Kenya better. I rise to support.
Hon. George Ogalo. Absent and not desiring to be present? Hon Robert Mbui.
Thank you, hon. Speaker for this opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill, which is the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill. I want to say that it is our responsibility to take care of our environment because it is the only one that we have. We must ensure that as we spend our time on this earth, we leave it better or just as good as we found it. I want to point out some area that I feel is of utmost importance in managing our environment; sand harvesting in my constituency in Kathiani. This has been a major problem and I think it is time this issue is addressed. We know that sand is required in the City but every time sand harvesters harvest sand, we cause soil erosion and our farms are getting seriously affected by that. This is one of the issues that need to be looked at. In the developed world, I understand that sand is not harvested from the rivers. They actually crush stones to make sand for construction and maybe that is one of the issues that need to be looked at. NEMA has a responsibility to ensure that these things happen, but you have noticed that they tend to spend their time doing very minor things as opposed to looking at those major issues like sand harvesting. I am looking at the Second Schedule that indicates the projects that require submission of an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) Study Report. I want to say that this is very good in theory, but in practice these people are asking for an assessment report even for painting of a house. I think it is important that these things are pointed out clearly. We need to know what falls under this assessment report and what does not. I recently got involved in a situation where we were doing minor renovations in a house, just a bit of paint work and minor repairs and NEMA people came in and said they wanted an assessment report. The cost of the repair is about Kshs.10,000 and producing an assessment report would cost Kshs.70,000. So, it did not make sense at all. It is therefore important that we look at this so that we deal with these issues. I believe that when we do that, we will reduce issues of corruption. I know that there is other important business coming up. I want to stop there and say thank you for the opportunity.
Did I hear hon. Kathuri Murungi wanting to contribute to this one?
Thank you, hon. Speaker for this opportunity to also contribute to this important Bill. I want to start by stating that the implementation of the Environmental Management and Co-ordination 1999 Act has had a lot of grey areas. This is the right opportunity to give this country a new Act, 2014. This Act is a constitutional requirement because most of the devolved functions, especially to the county governments touching on environmental management such as air, water and noise pollution need to be considered. I want to mention that there are various institutions, as our Chair mentioned, which seem to be obsolete as per the current Act, for example, the National Environment Council. Since the inception of this Act, I think this Council has not met for more than The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
five times. Therefore, this is an opportunity to remove such statutory bodies so that taxpayers can be relieved of these issues. As the Chair mentioned, there is this Public Complaints Committee which is the voice of Wanjiku . This is a very important committee which needs to be retained in this new Act so that the common man who cannot get enough money to go to the courts can seek redress through this Bill. The National Environment Management Authority which many people blame for many reasons needs a lot of empowerment because at the moment it looks like a toothless dog. It needs a lot of resources, especially human resource so that they can employ environmental inspectors, who can go around the country checking who are not complying with the Act. Therefore, moving forward as a House, we need to give NEMA more resources so that they can handle the task properly.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, NEMA also needs some prosecutorial powers so that those people who are contravening the Act can also be prosecuted through NEMA. The professional body for the experts who do strategic environmental impact assessments and environmental audits, needs to be anchored in this Bill. This way, we can avoid rogue consultants who usually go to universities for two or three weeks and they are given certificates to practise as environmental experts. These are the people who are making NEMA to lose its credibility. There are other professionals who are trained in this area from the first degree, second degree or third degree.When NEMA is blamed for having quacks, even these people with PhD also get the blame. Therefore, this professional body will be able to regulate the experts to see how they can regulate fees charged to the developers because at the moment, there are no regulations on how this can be charged. Some people can charge up to the tune of millions and other quacks can charge even Kshs.20,000. These are the people who do “cut and paste” when they are doing environmental impact assessment reports which do not stand the test of time. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is the national environment action plan which this country should have. What we need to do in this Bill is to set the period when we need to have the national environment action plan so that this can give us the guideline as a country on how we are moving. Another important document is the state of environment of this country. We need to have a two or three year plan so that we can get to know the state of the environment, which is also a document that needs to be tabled in this House. Members need to know what is happening in the country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, my colleagues have mentioned that the county environment committees need to be empowered. It is also important to have, as hon. Wamalwa has stated, sub-county environment committees. This can be decided at the county level so that sound environmental planning can be done at a lower level, which is also the spirit of our new Constitution. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
This Act will also give Kenyans public participation programmes so that whoever is doing an assessment must provide a list showing how they did public participation. As I mentioned earlier, quacks are getting to this business. They do these reports even from their offices in Nairobi and the environmental impact assessment is conducted in Wajir or Mandera. Therefore, this new Act will give Kenyans a chance so that experts can show how they did public participation. The last one is that this law provides a framework, whereby those Kenyans in the industries who can do sound management in environmental matters are given physical or monetary incentives. For example, those factories or individuals doing recycling, this Bill will give a framework on how they can get tax rebates or some concessions so that they can be encouraged to do more environmental management. We shall even have recommendations or medals for those who are doing sound environmental management. With those few remarks, I support this Bill.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Mohamed Haji of Banissa, do you want to speak on this?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do not want to speak on this.
Hon. Haji, you do not want to speak on this? Hon. Daniel Kazungu from Malindi, you can have the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity to contribute to this very important amendment Bill on environment. Like it has been said here, we all know how environment is important to us as Kenyans and living beings on this planet. If we do not take care of environment, it can be catastrophic. I want to speak on four key issues. The first one is on marine life. I have seen in this Bill where it says that if we need to start mining around areas where we have marine national parks, then we need express authority from a body that is involved in environmental matters. That is very key because as you know, this country---
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, please save me from the consultations going on here.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Order, hon. Chidzuga!
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Our country is undergoing a lot of explorations for oil and gas. I am aware that the whole town of Malindi together with Watamu, is one block of oil. There is a company that has been awarded that block to do exploration. You can imagine with marine life in Malindi National Park and Watamu Marine National Park what that could mean if oil and gas were to be found in those areas. So, it is important that we put these into perspective. I am glad that this amendment is there to ensure that there will be a lot of focus around that. A lot has been said about the need for us to focus on our environment. As we were told, the forest cover in this country is less than 2 per cent. There is need for us to focus on an increase in that capacity so that we keep desertification at bay. It is important as we do that, we have local participation because it is one thing to have a committee sitting at the county level and to have people who appreciate the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
environment. It is important to have local participation and appreciation of these forests by people who live near them. That is very important because a lot of charcoal burning and logging of forests is done by people who have not been given a chance to participate in environmental conservation. Therefore, they just let these forests disappear and then we start complaining. It is very important for local people to participate. There is need to also focus on urban centres. As the Women Representative for Nairobi, you know exactly what that means when it comes to environmental issues here. We have our cities and urban centres which are chocking because of garbage and a lot of litter all over the place.
It is important that even in urban centres, local groups are given prominence as part of the people who will be helping these committees to ensure that they collect garbage and train local communities. This will ensure that we have cleaner secure grounds in our urban centers like Nairobi, Malindi and Mombasa. Our tourists and even we should not walk in places where you encounter heaps of garbage. The only thing that we need would be to train the locals and encourage them to participate in the exercise. I can see that there will be funding since this is a money Bill. Therefore, money will be channeled to these institutions. This money should also go to the women and the youth in Mathare or Kisumu Ndogo in Malindi so that they will be part of that. They should train the locals on how to clean up the environment. They will be part of the collection and recycling of garbage team, so that we can provide opportunities going forward. As I support this amendment, I would like us to think broadly and look at the environment, not just as an issue that we need to focus on because we need to stay in a secure environment, but also because issues related to the environment can improve their livelihoods. On that note, I support this Amendment Bill.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important Bill which I support. In addition to what my colleagues have said, I would like to just mention five points. First, Kenya is still an agricultural country. We depend on agriculture currently and we will do so in future. While we are dependent on agriculture, we must change focus so that increasingly, we practise conservation agriculture for the sake of conserving the environment. There is a tree which is of important economic sense to our country, namely the eucalyptus tree. However, we have not addressed ourselves as to where we should grow this tree and whether we should grow it. When we grow it in wetlands or areas of high agricultural potential, we are destroying the environment. I would like NEMA and other agencies which are involved in conservation and environmental management to guide this country, so that if we will have to continue planting the eucalyptus tree for use in electrification programmes, building and construction, we should know where to plant it. Secondly, we must halt construction and cultivation on all wetlands in our country. Why should we construct in wetlands yet we could move to marginal areas and construct in those areas? Consider the case of Brazil. As a country, it decided to move its capital to Brasilia which was wild, to say the least. From the point that Brazil decided to move the capital to Brasilia, Brasilia has developed. At the moment it has one of the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
fastest growing cities in the world. That means that we should move out of agricultural areas and arable areas in terms of construction. NEMA is an important institution in this country. However, we have not felt it on the ground. We have not seen NEMA involve itself in conservation efforts in our constituencies. It has not involved itself when it comes to mining. In Kericho, for example, we are on the verge of discovering oil. NEMA should come in very fast and advise on what we need to do to conserve the environment. Oil is rich business, but it can also be extremely dirty business. Therefore, we need the involvement of NEMA in such efforts. When it comes to afforestation programmes, our schools and all institutions of learning should be the focal point. If we do not involve our young generation in afforestation and environmental protection measures, we are not headed anywhere. There is a lot of logging in Kericho. But who is doing that? It is not the people of Kericho. For any resource that is found in any part of this country, the local people should be involved in terms of the exploitation of such resources. Finally, I support the amendments in this Bill. This country will be better off if we engaged ourselves fully in terms of conservation and environmental management.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Amendment Bill that is before the House. We are aware that this Amendment Bill is required to align the Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act (EMCA) to the Constitution. It is supposed to enable the Fourth Schedule functions related to the environment to be shared as per the Constitution. This Bill abolishes the Provincial and District Environment Committees in amending Article 29 of the Constitution to create the County Environment Committees in line with the current devolved structure of Government. The operation of NEMA has become a challenge in environmental co-ordination as we realize that it acts as both an accreditor of those who practise the new science of environmental impact assessment and also evaluates those same assessments. In effect, this reduces their capacity to effectively co-ordinate the work of environmental audit in development programmes. There has been an outcry about the fees chargeable by NEMA. This Amendment Bill gives an opportunity to once more look at this either within the Act itself or in the regulations to ensure that NEMA does not become a hindrance to development, but becomes a necessary partner to those who intend to develop the country. There are two costs to NEMA that developers or investors have to incur. These are the cost of evaluating the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) reports and the cost of mitigating the environmental costs of development. This House now has an opportunity to look at these costs once more and ensure that NEMA does not become an enemy but a partner to developers. This Bill enhances the requirement of public participation in carrying out Environmental Impact Assessment studies. Previously, we would have people sitting in the offices in Nairobi and pretending to be carrying out studies for projects taking place in far-flung areas. Someone would be in Nairobi and would be determining the environmental impact of a project taking place in Turkana. The people of Turkana, for example, would not hear about this project until an approval is already granted. This Bill gives an opportunity to ensure that those who carry out these studies mandatorily have to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
show proof that they have completely consulted the public and the public has participated in arriving at their decision to approve any such project.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Bill intends to abolish the Public Complaints Committee. The Public Complaints Committee is the only entity through which the ordinary Kenyan - the person who cannot access legal aid or file cases in court - gets to complain about environmental impact of projects or development programmes. I belong to the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources, and we have vehemently opposed the attempt to delete or dissolve this Committee. I would urge this House to ensure that the Public Complaints Committee survives because that is the only body through which ordinary people can get justice and have their voices heard in environmental management in Kenya.
The Bill, in Clause 5, attempts to wind up the National Environment Council (NEC) and hand over its powers to the Cabinet Secretary in charge of environment. As a committee, and having looked at the performance of the Council in the past several years, it has become clear to us that the bloated nature of the Council has hindered its capacity to deliver services and functions it was meant to deliver. We have created ways in which the Cabinet Secretary must now consult with lead agencies and institutions in various aspects of the environment to ensure that the functions of the Council, as it were, are completely taken care of this time.
There is also a new phenomenon that we call the “National Environmental Accounting (NEA),” which requires that the country determines on an annual basis the actual net environmental value to the country in different sectors or segments that constitute the environment. As a committee, we have proposed this as a new function for NEMA to ensure that at any one time in planning and accounting for our national natural resources, we are able to determine the actual value of the environmental riches we have as a country.
This Bill reaffirms the need for a national environmental report and county environmental report. Our committee has looked at this and fixed the years at the national level as six; at the county level every six years a report must be presented to the National Assembly for us to monitor the effects of development on our environment.
This Bill is timely. It will now help NEMA, as a national institution, to interface with county governments and ensure that county governments undertake their functions under the Fourth Schedule with regard to the environment.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I just want to highlight a few things on environment as it affects this Bill. Everybody knows that the environment is very important, and that we need to protect it because without its protection, our health will be destroyed. There are many diseases that come because of environmental pollution; we have never been told by specialists in the area of health, or doctors, what diseases environmental pollution brings. We know that many people are sick with asthma. They have experienced itching and a lot of coughing. We need to be told about environmental pollution around us, so that we can be more careful in protecting our health. Environmental problems are so many that when you analyze them you just think you are unsafe everywhere you go. There is too much noise. Noise is part of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
environmental destruction; you find a lot of noise in the Jua Kali sector and other places. I am not saying that they should not do what they do, but there should be a way in which noise from them can be controlled. Sometimes even within a neighbourhood, neighbours just play loud music and when you complain, they want to fight you. They become very unhappy with you because you complain that they play loud music. People should be aware that noise is an environmental hazard, and needs to be taken care of; NEMA should also come in very strongly.
There was a time we were creating awareness about malaria in Siaya and we needed to use loudspeakers as we moved around. NEMA was very strict on us. They wanted us to pay a lot of money and we were not able to afford it, and so we failed to undertake the awareness campaign. It was on malaria. In fact, many people cannot afford what NEMA charges. I wish NEMA would be tolerant and reduce the cost of its services a little bit, so that many people can afford to pay for campaigns when they have to run around with loud speakers. There is also a lot of foul smell that you find around factories. Here I am talking about sugar factories and others. When you pass by them, the stench is terrible. What can NEMA do to help us in the kind of foul smell that you get as you travel from one place to another? This is especially the case when you are travelling through various factories which manufacture things like sugar.
There is also coloured water. In the villages where we come from, you see that river water is brown in colour. NEMA is strict about environmental protection, but what are they also doing about changing that coloured water into crystal clear water that people can drink? Women draw such water, and nobody really cares about their health, yet that water is polluted! That needs to be looked into. Environmentalists should consider the kind of water that is drunk, or drawn from the rivers in the countryside.
Lastly, it is about litter. We have a habit, as Kenyans, to throw paper everywhere. We have travelled abroad and have seen how clean foreign countries are. Their streets are swept. You do not find even a little piece of paper lying anywhere, because they are sensitive to environmental cleanliness, and educate their children right from the time when they are babies. I would recommend that environmental education be taken seriously.
We need to educate our children right from an early age, so that by the time they are adults, they are extremely sensitive to cleanliness; spitting or throwing banana peelings all over should be stopped. You could be following a vehicle in front of you, and somebody in that vehicle keeps on eating bananas and throwing away peelings. You just see every three minutes peelings dropping out of the vehicle in front of you. They keep on dropping out because somebody is eating bananas and does not care where to throw the peelings. He does not even keep them until he reaches a certain spot where there is litter disposal, so as to drop them there. I am very worried about the manners we have in relation to environmental protection. That is why I appeal to educationists who are here, or the committees dealing with education, that a certain curriculum should be developed for primary schools to know how to protect the environment by keeping it clean. It seems to be a very simple thing, but it is difficult to act on.
With those few remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support this Bill. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. You are aware that in Turkana there is a tree called Mathenge . This Mathenge has brought a lot of harm and destruction in Turkana. Now that we have this Bill, I hope the Government and those conserving the environment will see how to eliminate Mathenge from Turkana.
In this Bill, we need to make sure that, as my colleague, hon. (Ms.) Ombaka said, courses on environment are taught as part of early childhood development education (ECDC), so that children can grow knowing that environment is very important and must be taken care of. If you go to some counties, you will be surprised to see a gentleman, or lady, throwing away bottles anyhow and anywhere. We need to discipline such people as well as encourage counties to come up with laws in their counties on environment.
For instance, last week Uasin Gishu County Government came up with a law which says that if you spit on a street, you will be arrested and pay a fine of Ksh10,000. That will at least curb this indiscipline in relation to the environment. We need to encourage communities to participate in tree planting by motivating them through a programme under which we pay some little money to whoever plants a tree. You may pay such a person Kshs.300 a month. That will motivate very many people to plant trees on their home compounds. If we come up with such a programme, we shall have many trees all over the country. We need to think about that, especially in Turkana. You can have the community planting trees by telling them to do so and paying them something little at the end of the month; many of them will plant trees on their home compounds. That would increase the forest cover. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to look at the fee being charged by NEMA. There was a project in Turkana where we needed to establish a secondary school. The fee NEMA told the community to pay was beyond what they had. We need to control that because when NEMA charges the community a lot of money--- A community may have presented a proposal to the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) to undertake a project, and it becomes burdensome. We need to discourage this practice. Another issue is on the NEMA assessment reports. Sometimes these reports are misleading and corrupt. You find a NEMA officer has been sent to do an assessment in a particular area and he produces a report, but when you go back to the area, you find that they have given wrong information. Some mining companies do a lot of destruction to the environment. After they leave, the areas worked on remain with holes. When the rains come, some children get accident because of the holes. We need to have a penalty for such companies; before they leave, they must make sure that they have levelled the place they have worked on. In case anything happens in that area, that company must be followed and penalised for leaving behind holes. With those few remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): The last speaker on my list is the Member for Wajir East, hon. Abbas Mohamed. Do you want to speak on this? Go ahead.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity. I wish to join my colleagues in supporting this Bill. It is a very good The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Bill that has amendments incorporating the counties now that everything in this country is devolved. Every Kenyan is entitled to a clean and healthy environment. However, what has been happening is that everybody has been doing what he or she wants. There has been a lot of environmental pollution, dumping and littering. Waste disposal is not taken care of at all levels. The Bill now takes care of all that. The law on environmental conservation has not been enforced well; enforcement by NEMA has been very poor under the existing law. There have been a lot of issues in waste disposal and environmental conservation. It is high time this country enhanced environmental education, so that we can inculcate environmental awareness at an early stage of our students in schools. The only thing that we now do is planting trees, but not informing students the importance of environmental conservation. We do not give them enough knowledge on environmental issues. As a result of destruction of our ecosystems, there have been a lot of challenges. We have lost very important fauna and flora in this country. Today most of the beautiful land is being destroyed because of deforestation. Many animals are dying. Climate change is taking place very fast within the country. There is a lot of desertification encroaching on us because of the destruction of ecosystems and environmental degradation. There is a lot of reckless waste disposal. Everywhere in this country you find a lot of litter. A lot of carcinogenic materials are being disposed of without proper conservation. There is a lot of toxic waste and today we have a lot of cancer, especially in the area I come from. We have a lot of throat cancer. This is as a result of improper waste disposal. The current NEMA procedures in environmental impact assessment are not well regulated. While we have procedures and regulations, enforcement is not there. Most of the industries produce a lot of waste in the country, and it is not properly disposed of. It is high time we had regulations, so that a polluter is made to pay. Anybody who pollutes the environment should be punished or fined heavily. With those few remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I wish to support the Bill. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, I will now ask the Mover to reply. Hon. Duale.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have 30 minutes to reply, and at 5.00 O’clock we will start the Motion for Adjournment. I will use the available time, whether it is five or ten minutes. From the outset, I want to thank all my colleagues who have contributed to the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill, 2014. As I said on the day I was moving it, this Bill is basically amending the principal Act (No. 8 of 1999). One of the main objectives of this Bill, and the reason why it is a constitutional Bill, is that it is to make provisions that align the Environmental Management and Co-ordination Act with the Constitution of Kenya, 2010. This Bill also recognises the devolved system of Government. This Bill anticipates rationalisation of State resources. This Bill will put in place sound environmental practices and structures for dispute resolution. It will address Article 10 of the Constitution on national values and principles of good governance such as transparency, accountability and participation. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
There are a number of sections that have been inserted by this new Bill to the current principal Act. For example, this Bill anticipates the dissolution of the District and Provincial Environment Committees. It also dissolves the National Environment Council (NEC). All this is done in order to reduce duplication of functions and ensure prudent use of State resources as anticipated in Article 201 of the Constitution, both in terms of the spirit and the letter. On the highlight, this Bill is creating a new sub-section 3(a).
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is a serious Wajir County discussion. Hon. Keynan is consulting the other Wajir hon. Member about Wajir matters because he is now a new Vice-Chairman of one of the factions of the ODM Party.
One of the factions because they are pieces! So, he is the Vice-Chairman of one of the pieces; the piece that is led by hon. Ngong’o and hon. A.O. Ahmed will be the Vice- Chairman. Next week we are going to Mombasa and he will be the Vice-Chairman of another piece.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. A. B. Duale, you are inviting many points of order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am speaking the truth and I can substantiate. I can give the pieces.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh)
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for hon A.B. Duale, the Leader of Majority Party to talk about party politics and factions, non-existent factions within ODM, when he is supposed to concentrate on this very important Bill of the Environmental Management and Co-ordination (Amendment) Bill?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was recognizing hon. Keynan as a serious political leader from northern Kenya who deserves to be the leader of the CORD Coalition; not to be a leader of a small faction.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh)
But having said that, I will continue. I went to school with him. I was his senior in Moi University and he should respect that. He was my mono in Moi University and Prof. Irina can attest to that; he was the Vice-Chancellor then. Then there is clause 12.
He joined you in politics! The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Yes, he joined me in politics; not a good profession. There is also Article 230 of the Constitution. So, this is a very good Bill; a Bill that will take our country very far. Hon. Abdikadir is also laughing because he is also a beneficiary of the piece. He is the Organizing Secretary. So, northern Kenya is a very serious beneficiary of that piece. How it will be sustained is another thing.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh)
So, this is a constitutional Bill. I urge the House Business Committee (HBC), my colleague, the Leader of Minority Party is here and other hon. Members that we slot it for the Third Reading next week so that among the other constitutional Bills, as we go for Christmas, this Bill will have been disposed of by the National Assembly. We can then send it to the other House. Whether they stay with it for five months or one year, it will no longer be our business. With those many remarks, I beg to reply.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member with the Adjournment Motion? Hon. Farah, go ahead. You can move to the Dispatch Box if you do not have your card.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, you need to read out your Motion. Read it out first as it is and then you can start debating on it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Pursuant to Standing Order No.33 (1), I wish to seek leave to move for the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing the deteriorating security situation in our country. THAT, recognizing national security entails protection against internal and external threats to Kenya’s territorial integrity and sovereignty with its people, their rights, freedoms, property, peace, stability and prosperity and other national interest in accordance with Article 238(1) of the Constitution; aware that recent attacks in Kapedo on the border of Baringo and Turkana counties, Mombasa County, Malindi and Mandera counties have resulted in killing and maiming of innocent Kenyans in cold blood, destruction of property and disruption of social order; deeply concerned that these incidences of insecurity being perpetrated by armed persons and terrorist groups are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
serious threat to national security, stability and prosperity; cognizant of the fact that economic activities and public service delivery in areas prone to insecurity is on near paralysis due to continued threats, business people and professionals stationed in the above mentioned areas, this House adjourns to discuss the state of security in the country and urges the Government to urgently take all necessary measures to restore and maintain national security. I ask hon. Keynan to second.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, are you not going to debate it for a while or that is enough?
Debate it first.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): We do not need him now. I will call him after but you do not need to Second it. I want you to take some time to debate it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First of all, I want to mourn the 28 Kenyans who were grisly massacred on Saturday in Arabiya area of Mandera East Constituency. I grieve with the family members, relatives, friends and even the counties that were affected. We are with you and we grieve with you. Kenya is undergoing a period of increasing patterns of internal and external threats. Insecurity is increasing by the day. We are undergoing terrorist attacks every day. For example, Kapedo, Turkana County, Baringo County, Mandera County, Wajir County, Garissa County, Mombasa County, Nairobi County etcetera .
Terrorism is an international menace. We need to ask ourselves who is a terrorist and how we are dealing with it. Are we losing the battle? Kenyans are becoming insecure by the day. They are living in fear 24/7, specifically in the areas I have mentioned.
Are our security agencies doing it right? We wonder! How are we doing it and how is it done worldwide? Are our strategies right or are we just fire fighters? Who secures our borders? We, as Kenyans, feel that our borders are not secure.
Mandera County borders Somalia and the border is not secure. That is why we suffer. Who is mandated to secure that border? These are the questions Kenyans are asking all over. Which is the priority? Is it Kismayo in Somalia or the border of Kenya where Kenyans reside? Since the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) went into Somalia, our counties of Mandera, Wajir and Garissa have become insecure. Are we suffering because our forces are in Somalia? What is ailing us? Where did the rain start beating us?
Where is the problem? There is a new phenomenon developing in this country. It seems that the terrorists have invented a new formula. They want to bring religious conflict into Kenya. They want to pit Muslims against Christians or other religious groups. This is the new face of terrorism that we are seeing. How prepared are we to counter this, and create a one Kenya and one people? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I want to give a short synopsis of what has happened in Mandera in a short period of less than a year. I will just mention incidents without giving dates. A Safaricom salesman vehicle was attacked and the driver killed. More than 10 miraa vehicles were hijacked, people killed and many maimed. Vehicles carrying school feeding programme foodstuffs were attacked, two people killed and many others injured. Omar Jillo Centre and wananchi shops were looted. The attackers asked for the chief, missed him, but vandalized his house and took his uniform. The E-Coach bus was attacked, the driver killed and four passengers injured. An organization that distributes famine relief food was attacked. There was a heinous murder of nine Kenyans, six KPR officers and regular police officers and their bodies burnt beyond recognition. In Mandera Town, several police officers were killed and several others maimed. Other Government officials, namely two chiefs and Kenya Revenue Authority Staff (KRA), were killed. Many wananchi are killed or maimed on a daily basis. They include the locals and even those people we are calling upcountry people. Government installations are attacked; the AP Central and the DC’s offices were brought down. About 12 GK vehicles and private vehicles were burnt down at the DC’s office compound. The office block was totally destroyed. The county government revenue office was totally destroyed. There was an attempted attack on the county headquarters, which failed. There was an attack on the Mandera Police Station twice. There were attacks on the Kenya Power Company twice, but they failed. Three county collection barriers were attacked and several KPR officers killed. Improvised explosive devices (IEDs) are everywhere. The most daring was on the Governor’s convoy. The Deputy Governor’s vehicle was attacked. Road contractors were attacked at a fuel station and several people killed and a tractor destroyed. In Mandera Town, several people were injured and a tractor was destroyed. The latest was the 28 Kenyans who were heinously killed. The question that begs for an answer is; what happens to the intelligence information that is usually given by wananchi ? Recently, the county government shared intelligent information with the security agencies, but it was not acted on. The result was the heinous killing of 28 Kenyans. At the place where the killings happened there was a KDF camp, but it was moved two weeks ago. This is suspicious. The leadership of the county was not aware of the action. We are not aware of why it was moved. The police officers who were killed at Kapedo called for reinforcement for 30 hours. No help was forthcoming, leading to their massacre. When we took the KDF into Somalia and they went for the throat and liver of the terrorists, what strategies did we put in place to safeguard our bedroom? Are our police well-armed, or facilitated, in terms of mobility or vehicles? Recently, the Inspector- General was on record saying that all vehicles from Mandera would be escorted. Does he even have the vehicles to escort these vehicles? How are we prepared to bring all the stakeholders on board in the fight against terrorism? Is it intelligence-based or roughing up people? We wonder who cooks our intelligence, prepares it and serves it. These are the questions that beg for answers from every Kenyan. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rest my case. I beg to move and invite hon. Kenynan to second. Thank you very much. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
No! You know the seconding is not the practice on this one. Probably at the right time, I will give hon. Keynan an opportunity to speak. I can see he is not very far on the line-up. First I will take this intervention. Is that hon. Member for Nandi Hills? What is out of order?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First, I would like to thank the hon. Member who has moved this Motion. However, I want to move a Motion that we reduce the time from five minutes to about three minutes to allow many hon. Members to make contributions.
In my opinion, that makes sense. Unfortunately, I am not able to make a decision because already I can see 61 requests. Therefore, hon. Members, I will put the Question and then you will make your decision. If you really want to insist on five minutes, at least you will know---
I will not take the exceptions. I hear you, hon. Nyenze. Unfortunately, we have cut the time for everybody. I might consider you taking more time. However, not anywhere near what is stipulated. I will pick on hon. Nyenze before I come to you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will not take lot of time. I want to thank the Mover because he has been very elaborate. We do not want Kenya to become a failed state. We love this country and insecurity has been a major problem. I am sure that on this one, we will unite across the political divide because Kenya is under attack. We have to save this country from this menace that is about to tear it apart. We talk about 28 people who were killed in Mandera; we talk about Westgate; we talk about 60 people who were killed in Mpeketoni; we talk about the Kapedo incident, and we also talk about the 42 policemen who were massacred in Turkana. These are very many cases within a span of a short time. Other countries like Ethiopia and Burundi are in the AMISOM; why only Kenya? What are they doing differently from us? Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am lucky that I am seated next to hon. (Ms.) F.I. Ali. She has explained to me. Israel is surrounded by very hostile neighbours, but you do not hear very many terrorist attacks because they take security very seriously. Even if we remove ole Lenku or Kimaiyo, so long as the whole system is not overhauled, we will have done nothing! We need to know that the whole system is facing a systemic failure and we address it. We have to know why the police force has very low morale and why they cannot perform. Before the Mandera incident, Governor Ali Roba had warned of an imminent attack. Why was that bus released at 4.00 a.m. to travel without escort? That is the question Kenyans are asking. Why was the bus released when buses are supposed to go under escort, especially in terrorist-prone areas? I have walked everywhere and talked to very many police officers, and asked them, why are you not saving us? Why are we having so much insecurity? Their morale is down. Let us call a spade a spade. The salaries and house allowances of the police The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
officers are low. A police officer starts with a salary of Ksh.18,000. The house allowance is Ksh.1,800. Where on earth can you get a house for Ksh.1,800 even in the slums? For insecurity to disappear, it will not be because we employ another 10, 20 or even a million police officers. We did not have insecurity before when we had fewer police officers. Let us motivate our police officers. Even if we buy those 1,000 vehicles or the best guns, so long as they are not motivated, there will be no security. When a police officer dies in the line of duty, their families are supposed to be given Ksh.10 million but no police officer’s family has been paid the Kshs.10 million. Let us motivate our police officers by giving them a better pay, better houses and take care of their welfare. If we do that, insecurity will be a thing of the past. However, if we maintain that we are giving them cars, nothing will work. Let us not target just certain people. Let us review the whole system. Let us start with this National Assembly and appropriate more money for police reforms. Until we put money in the Budget and that money is used properly to build better houses for them and pay them better salaries, we will talk about insecurity until chicken come home. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to finish by saying this: Poverty is also contributing to this insecurity. Many insecurity incidents, apart from Westgate, happen where communities have been neglected for a long time.
Your time is over, hon. Nyenze.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker although under the Standing Orders--- I support.
No! The Standing Orders were amended by your colleagues here. I will give a chance to hon. Waiganjo. I can see he is the first on the line.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. It is very unfortunate that we have to take three minutes to debate this matter of national importance. I doubt if we shall finish. The Kenya Defence Forces, the National Intelligence Service (NIS) and the National Police Service are the national security organs in this country that Kenyans need to know about. Kenyans should know that those three organs are the ones that are mandated to promote and guarantee national security in this country. Besides that, Article 240 of the Constitution creates the National Security Council. The National Security Council comprises of the President, the Deputy President, the Cabinet Secretary for Defence, Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government; the Attorney General, the Chief of Defence Forces; the Director General of NIS and the Inspector General of Police. Therefore, when Kenyans are looking for an insecurity solution, these nine people, seven men and two women can provide it. It is the Council that is mandated to exercise supervision and control over national security organs. We may know who bears the greatest responsibility for insecurity in this country and who should be blamed. These three organs are also supposed to create policy and integrate the domestic, foreign and military policies relating to national security. We have to enable the national security organs to co-operate and function effectively. Do we have a policy on national The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
security in this country? The answer is no. Whatever we do or say, however much we complain, and whatever rhetoric we come up with here and say ole Lenku and Kimaiyo should go, we are doing nothing. So long as it is the same Kenya, with all its insecurity problems and without a policy on national security--- Lastly, the President came to this House on 27th March, 2014 and presented a report. In that report, he highlighted transnational threats. That was in March this year and eight months later--- If we had time, we would have wanted to listen to what the President said in that report. He said the following:- “The entry of KDF into AMISOM was a game changer. So far, it has liberated more than 18 towns, including Kismayo, which was a strategic supply point for the AlShabaab. This has greatly degraded the capability of the Al Shabaab and set the foundation for the next phase of the operation.” Now, are we in the next phase of the operation? Has there been an abatement of the insecurity and the threats that we are facing? Within the borders, the Government has taken firm counter-terrorism measures, leading to the apprehension of 150 terrorist suspects, whose cases are on-going. Have we been told of any conviction? Do we have any terrorist who has been convicted and jailed? Are we still admitting terrorists to bail? Do we have a bond/bail policy whereby we can keep the terrorists incommunicado while they await for their trial?
Your time is over.
Thank you very much.
We will have the hon. Member for Eldas Constituency.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to contribute on this very important Motion. I stand here as a devastated Kenyan. The despicable act by the terrorists on those innocent 28 Kenyans is something that all peace loving Kenyans must stand and condemn in every aspect. One of the things I wanted to say has already been said by hon. Waiganjo. What we are seeing is a systemic institution failure over the years. I stand here to say today without any contradiction that we do not have national security policy. I want to bring to the attention of the Members that, in the last Parliament; I was the Chair of the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee. In the year 2000 - I want hon. Duale to hear this. I want hon. Duale to hear this because he is a very important person. We did not have a national security policy. I want to remind Members, in the 2009/2010 something happened; the Government of Kenya through a policy that was cooked in River Road or elsewhere, decided to support the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia. What they did is that they were supposed to recruit young and newly recruited Somalia soldiers in order to support the Government. Hon. Speaker, you know what they did? They went to Eastleigh, Garissa and Mandera and recruited young Kenyan Somalis totaling to 3,920. Those boys were promised hefty allowances under the auspices of the United Nations (UN) to go and work in Somalia. I want to ask, and I hope heads of the security agencies are listening, where are those boys today? All of them after having been trained in Isiolo, in Manyani are back in Kenya and these are the boys who are causing havoc. We have to blame ourselves. The state of insecurity we are seeing was manufactured by certain individuals in Kenya. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Those individuals must be charged with treason. They are the ones who have made Kenya insecure.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is why there was no rationale and hon. Duale knows it. In one of the Bullas in his constituency; Bulla Iftin was also a recruiting centre. It is documented, it is known. The report was there, we submitted it to the Joint Committee headed by hon. Kapondi and myself. What I want to say is this, let us not blame---
What is your point of order hon. Duale? His time is over anyway but what is your point of order?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Hon. Keynan is giving very interesting information. We want him to name the Government officials in the last Government. He is saying hon. Duale; by then I was just a Backbencher here. I was forming the United Republican Party (URP); I was not in the Government. He was in the Party of National Unity (PNU) and he should name those people. Again, he was the Chairman of the Defence and Foreign Relations Committee. So, this matter is serious. Let us not do public relations exercise here. This House has HANSARD. Let us name people
Point taken. Let us have hon. Keynan. Hon. Keynan, in 10 seconds just clarify that bit because your time was over. Hon. Keynan: The Temporary Deputy Speaker, what I am saying is that, it is a fact that 3,920 young Somalis were recruited in Manyani, in Isiolo. It is also a fact that they were supposed to go to Somalia. It is also a fact they did not go to Somalia. Where are they and most of them were Kenyans? The last thing Temporary Deputy Speaker--- The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Cheboi): That you have said and your time is over.
Last thing, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker---
The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Cheboi): If you are naming them fine but if you are not, your time is over.
I will not name them---
Then that is the end of it. I am giving the hon. Member for Kamukunji. Proceed hon. Abdi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like first of all to express my sincere condolences to the families and relatives of the 28 innocent Kenyans who lost their lives in the despicable terrorist attack in Mandera. I condemn the action of these evil men and let me categorically and clearly state here that they do not represent me and what I believe in. I believe in equality of men and women, the brotherhood and sisterhood of humanity. I believe in tolerance and co existence. I can only say without any fear of contradiction that these evil men and their horrific actions do not represent the noble religion of Islam nor the Somali people, the majority of whom are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
God fearing and peace loving people. Muslims and Christians have lived together in harmony for ages in this country. Thousands of Somalis live in every corner of this country among non-Muslims peacefully without any fear. We, therefore, reject what they believe in and stand for.
Secondly, it will be understatement to say there is a security problem in our country. There is a growing feeling that our security is falling apart, that the State is no longer in position to protect the lives and property of an increasing number of its citizens especially those living in the peripheries of this country. Life in some parts of Kenya is becoming very difficult because of the growing insecurity. If you follow the news in Kenya, you will be forgiven to think that this country is torn apart and at war. Our police force has not only failed in Mandera but also in Pokot, Turkana, Samburu, Lamu, Mombasa, Kwale, Tana River, Marsabit, Isiolo and here in Nairobi. The majority of Kenyans perceive our police as incompetent and corrupt. They have topped the list of the most corrupt institutions in this country year in, year out. No one in this country has confidence in them including our President who has been forced to deploy the Kenya Defense Forces to maintain law and order in some parts of our country. The fact that our military is patrolling Kapedo and Lamu is a clear indication that we do not have a police force capable of doing this job. Due to this inability, hundreds of Kenyans have been killed in armed or terror attacks in Kenya this year alone. Armed and terror groups---
Your time is over. Hon. Wanyonyi, do you have intervention?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The statement by hon. Keynan is very dangerous. He talked of 3,920 boys? I want him to name the people who are behind the recruitment of the 3,920 young boys. We want to know because this country cannot wish away that statement. I insist and persist that he names the people who are behind the recruitment of the 3,920 Somalis.
Actually, it is improper that you had to raise it at this particular point in time but looking at the seriousness of that statement, I think the House and the nation deserves to know if hon. Keynan has very specific names. If you do not have, you may have to withdraw. It is important. I would not have given you an opportunity but let us hear. Who is this who recruited the Somali boys?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I really want to thank you. First of all, this was a deliberate Government policy. I want to say this; we tabled a report in 2000 by a Joint Committee, the Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations and the Committee on Administration and National Security. I just want to find out the date of the Report. It was passed by this House and one of the things we said---
Do not go beyond there hon. Keynan because I do not want you to use this opportunity to contribute.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also understand the Standing Orders very well and therefore as you apply the rules, know that you are also dealing with somebody who is very familiar with the procedures.
No, on this particular one hon. Keynan, I am not going to allow you. What I wanted you to do is to name, if you say it was a Government policy that is the end of it. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is very easy, I want to say the Report was presented to the Kenya National Assembly during the Tenth Parliament, Fourth Session, 2010. It was the Report of the Joint Departmental Committees on Administration and National Security and Defence and Foreign Relations, on its fact finding visit to Garissa, Dadaab and Voi from 11th to 13th November, 2008/2009 and was tabled on October, 2010.
We will revisit that. No, hon. Keynan, I am not giving you further than that. If you are naming just name them. You have said that you know the Standing Orders. I have asked you to name and you have---
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me say this: There was a training camp for these boys under the guise of assisting the Somalia Government, in Isiolo and Manyani. That training was being done by our own forces. I do not need to say so and so because the facts are so clear.
Hon. Serem, I am not giving an opportunity to raise a point of order, but instead contribute. I would rather you contributed unless you want to forfeit that chance.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am very surprised that a very senior Member of this House can make allegations that he cannot give evidence of. You gave hon. Keynan an opportunity to mention the names and he refused to do so. However, let me give my contribution. One, I am a very sad Kenyan indeed that we have a safe Mogadishu and a very insecure Kenya. We have our boys, sons and daughters in Somalia and yet we cannot sleep at night. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am seated next to the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security. I want to take this opportunity to request him to resign; that is hon. Kamama and his entire Committee. Secondly, ole Lenku and Kimaiyo should resign with immediate effect.
Why are you why and we have our sons and daughters in the morgue? If you cannot understand the feelings of Kenyans, do not ask me why. Go to the mortuary and you will understand. Our sons and daughters are crying. They want answers.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
As hon. Kamama is asking for a point of order---
I want to deal with you.
I have asked that you resign. Unless you are standing to say that you are resigning, I will concur that you stand up. Two---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this country belongs to all of us. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
It does not belong to a few.
Yes it does not.
We have the Somali community in Kenya. We have given them a safe place.
Order! I will give you some additional 20 seconds because that is what is remaining. Now that you have named hon. Kamama, who is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security, I think he has a right to comment. What is your point of order? I want to guide hon. Members that let us avoid raising emotions. At least, hon. Kamama has had the opportunity to probably make some issue about it but there are others who are not in this House. Let us avoid mentioning names. Let us deal with this situation.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I know my good friend here hon. Serem from Sigowet is a frustrated person like other Kenyans on this issue of insecurity, especially in Mandera and other places. He has just said that he wants me to resign together with the rest. He is now combining the Legislature and the Executive. Hon. Serem, you need to draw a clear dichotomy between the role of the Chairman and his Committee as provided for by the Standing Orders in this House vis-a-vis that of the Executive. Are you mixing the two by giving me the role of the Executive? Where have I failed? Can you be specific that this is where I have failed and why I need to resign? He needs to do that because we should not do guesswork. He just does not know what he is talking about.
Okay. You are now contributing. Your point has gone through. Hon. Serem, you have your 20 seconds to sum up everything.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will answer him. His responsibility is oversight. He has failed as part of an organ that oversees the performance of these institutions. So, if he wants to know where he has failed, I am reminding him that he is supposed to do that. If you have failed, then you should go.
That is the end of it. Let us have hon. Member for Mbita.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. First of all, I take this opportunity to offer my condolences to the families of the Kenyans who were slain in Mandera. It is unfortunate that this is not an isolated case and as the other hon. Members have indicated, we have also had other cases in Kapedo, Mpeketoni and the recent killings of the police. As the hon. Members have indicated and with which I concur, there appears to be a complete breakdown of the security system in this country. There is something that hon. Jakoyo Midiwo has been saying and we have not been listening. Unfortunately, it has been due to our political divide. However, I think it is time we started listening to each other on the issue of security. We need to look at whether the failure in security is a systemic issue or the police are actually rebelling. If you look at it, it is not just a matter of terrorism. Just now when you are sitting, the hon. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Shebesh has just shared with me a clip of a young lady who has been stripped in a matatu and the men are touching and pulling off all parts of her private parts in the business of saying that this is an issue of dressing badly. The reason I am saying this is because the issue of security touches on the issue of terrorism---
Order, hon. Members!
It also touches on violence against women. You do not need to defend me. You know that I can hold my own. I want to indicate that there is a level of lawlessness in this country that has never been seen before. I want to agree with the hon. Member who has called on the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to resign. I have no issue against my brother but if it is not an issue of resignation because I know that the role they play is oversight, but we are reaching a level where I was going to recommend that we need to provide for a Select Committee. This is despite that we have one on security. So, if they are not able to oversight, then we need to get a Select Committee. Over and above that and at the national level, there must be a complete overhaul of the security system. This country is becoming almost ungovernable. When you go to places like when we were at the Pan African Parliament (PAP), all the terrible examples on insecurity in the continent were on Kenya. We are embarrassed as a country. We do not want to be the ones that are being given as an example of all the bad things in this continent. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Very well. Let us have the Member for Vihiga, hon.Yusuf Chanzu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. It is so sad. I also want to send my condolences to the families of the 28 who were massacred in Mandera. Unfortunately, all of those who were killed are very young Kenyans between the ages of 20 and 30 years. The majority of them, and I think almost all of them are people who had come from other parts of the country. They were from the counties in Western and Nyanza and had gone to look for employment in Mandera. It is a very unfortunate incident. In fact, it is good that the Leader of Majority Party is here. We want to ask him to ensure that the medical bills that have been incurred at the mortuary and the transport costs are met by the Government. This is because some of the bodies are already there but their unfortunate families are unable to meet the costs. Security is a primary responsibility of any Government. The Government should ensure that security is properly in place. I am aware that some of the commissions and officials that we put in place, was because of the tug of war that existed between ODM and PNU. This could be why we are experiencing these problems. Now that we have a Government in place, it should re-examine some of the positions that we filled through the rush. Some of the positions were filled to please some politicians, without thinking of the future. There should be an overhaul in the security organs of the Government and those who are found to have failed should leave. There was a rumour and they should investigate it, that somebody in the vehicle was communicating with others outside. So, those guys knew what they were doing. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
There is also speculation that the police might have been compromised, so that they let the thing go. All this must be investigated to avoid a recurrence.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity. I want to start by sending my condolences to all Kenyans including the families of the 28 people who were killed in Mandera, others in Kapedo and so many others who have been killed by senseless people. These terror groups, for example, have agenda. One of the agenda that they have for Kenyans is for the people to fight against each other in terms of religion. That is why they separated Christians and Muslims and massacred some of them. This is a scheme to divide Kenyans. We should not fall prey to this. Kenyans should know that this terror group is in Somalia. Somalis are all Muslims; Suni Muslims to be specific. Other sects do not exist. They are killing them in hundreds every day. This is not a religious war. These are people who are sadists. They want to maim people, harm others and cause maximum pain. From this incident, we have noted that organisations are calling their workers to withdraw from Mandera, for example, teachers, doctors and civil servants. Today, we have over 300 people camping in military camps wanting to run away from Mandera. If we encourage that, it means that
and terror groups will have achieved their mission. We have to stand and fight together. United we will stand as a country. What these terror groups want to achieve should not be encouraged. We appeal to the TSC and all the other unions to appeal to their workers to stay, so that they do not leave Mandera. The Government should provide security for everybody wherever they are. Secondly, somebody must bear this responsibility. Heads must roll. If that is not done, if people are not responsible, the buck does not stop somewhere. That means that we will continue lamenting and mourning every day. About two days ago in the United States of America, the head of security resigned because his policies in Iraq, Afghanistan and the ICC are not working. He took responsibility. He asked that somebody capable be given the position to run the policies.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I hope that will not affect my time because I have three minutes. I want to take this opportunity to pass my condolence to the families that lost their loved ones. I am one of the Members who are seriously affected by this. As we speak now, four of my cousins are lying in the mortuary at Chiromo. These are Mwalimu Millicent Weremba; a lady who went through college the other day and enrolled with the TSC. The others are Mwalimu Janet Shitemi, Mwalimu Patrick Mukobi and Mwalimu Cleopatra Omukenya. These are young people who are lying in the morgue today because they had qualified to be teachers. It is really touching. In our constituency, we take education matters seriously. That is why Mumias The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
District has been number one in this country for two consecutive years. I am also hoping that this year we are also going to be number one in the Kenya Certificate of Primary Examination. I am aware that the TSC posted these teachers to Mandera, so that they can uplift the level of education in Mandera. As I speak today, more than 100 teachers from Mumias East are teaching in Mandera. The question here is: What security are we guaranteeing these young people in Mandera? We are going all the way there. Mandera is not a place that one would wish to work in, but we are going all the way there because of poverty that we are experiencing in our place. We are poor because the people we gave the responsibility to manage our company; Mumias Sugar Company, mismanaged it. I will be talking elaborately on this issue on another Motion that is likely to come to the Floor of this House.
Your time is over. Let us have Member for Balambala.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First of all, I wish to send my sincere condolences and on behalf of the people of northern Kenya, to the families of the 28 Kenyans who were brutally murdered by these evil men. I also condemn the act. That act was intended to divide us as Kenyans. We must stand strong, as Kenyans, and ensure that these kinds of acts do not divide us. The act that happened has no basis in religion. I want us to be very careful even as leaders. The kind of comments that we make sometimes, like I have seen on the social media, can divide Kenyans further and, indeed, help the perpetrators to achieve their objectives. Much has been said about who is responsible. Somebody must take responsibility for the continued lack of security in this country. Under Article 238(2)(a) of the Constitution, national security is subject to the authority of this Constitution and Parliament. Much as we point fingers at others, I want to point fingers at ourselves. What have we done as a House? Why have we not impeached people whose names we keep mentioning? We keep saying ole Lenku, Kimaiyo among others. What is stopping us from impeaching these people? This House, not elsewhere, is failing Kenyans in taming insecurity in this country. Heads must roll. People must take responsibility. Today, Kenyans have camped at the gate of the Office of the President seeking the removal of ole Lenku and his team. They must go and must take responsibility. This House must take a lead in that. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as I end, I want to say that, the Kenya National Union of Teachers (KNUT) and the Doctors Association who have ordered all their employees to leave that place, we plead with them not to do so. Indeed, doing so will also be another way of helping these terrorists to achieve another objective of causing more suffering to Kenyans. We need to review our strategy of sending KDF to Somalia. We better safeguard our country from within, rather than spending time and being accused of being involved in charcoal trade out there. We must bring our boys and men back here and put them on our borders so that they can defend our country. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well. Hon. Member for Navakholo Constituency, the Floor is yours. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I wish to join other Kenyans and my colleagues in this House, to send a message of condolence to the fallen Kenyans. As I stand before you, my constituency lost two people from the Mandera Massacre. I am a very disturbed person. The manner in which the two people lost their lives and how they went to Mandera in search of something to keep their lives going on is quite sad. This is because of unemployment. Much as we blame the security systems, I would want to say that, innovation is not brought about by the systems but by the people who are leading the systems. As soon as the people fail to do or carry out their own mandate, definitely, the system collapses. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in this regard, I wish to recognize the people in charge of security apparatus in this country who are headed by the Cabinet Secretary for Internal Security, alongside the Inspector-General. These are the people I wish to say that they are supposed to leave their positions to pave way for proper personnel within the police force. There are retired generals and other people who understand the security system of this country and who can step in and run security apparatus of this country properly. I will be happy to see systems run properly because they have failed to deliver to this country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in as much as we look at our foreign investors, as long as we are still indebted in terms of security apparatus, there is no one who will come to Kenya to do investment. Instead of us suffering in the hands of others, let these people pave way so that we get investors to come and run business in this country. With those comments, I end my case.
Hon. Member for Wajir West, the Floor is yours.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First and foremost, I would like to send my message of condolences to the relatives of the people who died in Mandera Massacre. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, enough is enough. We have talked a lot and it is time to act. Our security apparatus and the intelligence have failed. We are told that the Governor for Mandera had hinted that there would be an incident of terrorism and nothing was done. In Kapedo incident, the security personnel asked for help and they stayed for 30 hours without being given help. Therefore, we need to work on our intelligence. Secondly, our borders need to be secured. We have talked about this now and again. KDF does not need to be in Kismayo engaging in charcoal trade rather, they should come and secure our borders because that is where they belong.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as leaders and legislators, we should give guidance. We need to begin with ourselves, for example, the Committee on Administration and National Security should lead the way. If they are not able to do it with its leadership, then they should step aside and bring that message to the House.
Order! What is your point of order?
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There is so much noise!
Let me take this opportunity to inform you that, hon. Members do not make noise. They sometimes consult a little louder. Hon. Rasso, what is it?
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member must state the facts or withdraw his remarks. How can he say the Kenyan forces are in Kismayo to burn charcoal and do charcoal trade? That is misleading. There are many men and women who have put their lives on the line out there, and for him to speculate on that, I think it is very unfair.
Yes, coming from a decorated army person, it really makes some sense. Let us not go that direction unless we have specific proof. Finalize, your contribution, hon. Ahmed.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, that is not hearsay, it is in the UN’s Monitoring Group Report. These are things which are in books and it clearly reports what is happening. It is not my own making, for your information hon. Member. Lastly, as leaders and Kenyans, this is a testing moment. We need to be together and not divide ourselves along ethnic or religious lines. We should not allow our enemies to celebrate. We should not allow civil servants to withdraw from some parts of the country. If we do that, we will be giving in. We should rather look for better solutions to address our security situation.
Hon. Shebesh, approach the Dispatch Box.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First, I also want to start by giving my condolences to the families of those who lost their loved ones and even to the hon. Members of Parliament who are directly affected. I will be very brief and straight to the point. I know there is a lot of discussion on whether or not we should get rid of ole Lenku and Kimaiyo. I do believe that Kenyans need to know where the buck stops. They cannot keep asking the same question all the time. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am pleading because, we in the Jubilee Coalition are in Government, but when it comes to security issues we are embarrassed. This is because our people are dying every day and what comes out after the Westgate attack; is rather mind boggling. It is about time a reshuffle is done and people are sacked. Whichever way we look at it, we must be brave enough and face each other; the President, the Deputy President and tell them, “on the issue of security, you are not doing well.” At the end of the day, security issues are the real issues to consider. If you do not have security, then you cannot have any development in an area. When Mungiki was a menace, it was dealt with. I do not think there was a bigger force in terms of vigilante or whatever name you want to call them, than Mungiki . They The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
were dealt with substantially by the then Minister, the late Michuki and the then Commissioner of Police, Maj-Gen. Ali. If we had the same caliber of people today, then I am sure these people would not defeat us. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, nobody has a problem with AMISOM and KDF being in Somalia. I just want to be honest with you; as a House, we are being asked by our constituents why we must be in Somalia. Is Somalia bigger than Kenya? How do we answer them, if nothing is being done? If today they can see a bus being attacked; the other day it was Westgate attack; in Nairobi, there are grenades exploding nearly every day, what can we tell them? We need to have something to tell Kenyans because we need to answer questions from them because that is why we are here. Therefore, for me, ole Lenku and Kimaiyo must go. Thank you.
Hon. Member for Molo, Constituency, the Floor is yours,
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to start by passing a message of condolences to loved ones and relatives of the people who died in a bus attack on Saturday. I would also like to draw from history. During the former President Moi’s administration terrorists came to Kenya, during Kibaki’s tenure, terrorists were here, during Uhuru’s administration, they are here again. Drawing from this history, I would like to say; calling for resignation of one, two or three individuals is not a solution. It will not solve this issue because we are faced with a police force that is not coordinating. We have three arms of the disciplined forces in Kenya; the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF), National Intelligence Service (NIS) and the Police Service. When these three disciplined forces met at Westgate Mall to rescue Kenyans from only four terrorists, it became tragic.
From what we have seen and from what we have read it is important at this point in time to mention that our police force could be sabotaging each other in the departments. On the attack in Mandera, there were intelligence reports which were presented to the District Security Council and they were ignored. The National Intelligence Service (NIS) does not execute them. They did their part. We are dealing with a police force that needs to be overhauled. We are dealing with a police force that during the Kapedo Massacre, we realised that we did not even see the face of Arachi, the Deputy Inspector-General (IG). He was held up in Lamu as if he is not in charge of Administration Police (AP). There is sabotage. These arms of Government are not working together. What you have seen on the streets of Kenya where we are seeing people being stripped just after we have seen young people taking over mosques in Mombasa and elsewhere could be a bigger orchestrated plot to ensure that Kenyans go against each other in terms of religion. It is important at this moment in time that the Government of Kenya, from the President and all of us, come out and ensure that our police force and our policing systems are all overhauled so that we are able to defend our Country.
Hon. Fathia Mahbub.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. This has been a saddening thing that the attackers have done. I first want The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
to send my condolences to the family and friends of the 28 Kenyans who suffered in the massacre. I must say I was also affected because the 28 Kenyans who died in my county were a big asset. They were teachers who gave education to our children. They were health workers who would facilitate health programmes and health facilities for my people. I really feel bad as much as every Kenyan people today. I condemn this act that has been done by hooligans and criminals. “Islam” means peace. I want to tell Kenyans that Muslims and Christians have lived together for many years. Al Shabaab have just come the other day and they want to divide us. I want to tell Kenyans that we should work together and see how we can remove these criminals because they will not segregate us. “Islam” means peace. There is nothing like killing each other. There is not even hurting your neighbour. So, these are hooligans. We must see how to strategise and work on this. I want to say that my Governor had given an intelligence report but because of lack of coordination, nobody listened to him. It was just ignored. No action was taken and that is how the 28 Kenyans suffered. There is something to be done. I wish the President and the Deputy President are watching this; please do something. Ole Lenku and the Inspector-General, be gentlemen and just go. Just resign because every other day Kenyans are telling you to go. Why do you want to be sacked? I think even the President is feeling shy of sacking you. Your Excellency the President, do something about them and let the two go like gentlemen. Lastly, given that there is no national security policy, how will they work? This means there is no strategy in the security department and remember these criminals have strategised. They are now planning to target somewhere else. Currently, because of the planes which have been hitting them they have now gone to the borders. I understand that and I have got information. Can Kenyans listen to me? Many of them have come to the borders. They are strategising on hitting or coming into Kenya. Can the policemen and the KDF---
We will have the Member for Vihiga.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Members, we still have about ten Members who are going to contribute. So, please be patient.
Yes. So, why are you complaining? Give me my time. I want to send my condolences to the families who have lost their loved ones. In Vihiga County, we have lost three people. One is from Chavakali and two from Lunyi. I have questions to be answered. We are playing with something that is killing our people in this country while the Government is watching. Are we going back to the era of Shiftas because in the early 80s there used to be Shiftas in Isiolo when I used to be there? However, by then there used to be police escort. I wonder why this bus was actually ambushed and people killed. Where were the police? Was this docket of ole Lenku given to the people who are learning on the job or is it supposed to be given to the people who have experience? What is the Government actually doing to curb insecurity in Kenya? I want to tell you right now our people are in the mortuary and we do not even know how to take them to their respective places. So, I am asking the Government to take full responsibility to take the bodies of the people affected to their respective places in The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Vihiga County. I was in the mortuary and I was told they are supposed to pay mortuary bills. I know if something like this happens, it is for the Government to take full responsibility so I am urging the Government to do the necessary so that these bodies are taken to Vihiga for burial . Thank you.
Let us have Member for Kieni, hon. Kanini Kega
Thank you. I want to start by sending my very sincere and heartfelt condolences to the families, friends and relatives of the 28 Kenyans who were killed in that heinous act that happened in Mandera. In fact, among the 28 are two from my constituency. These are Wilfred Karimi who was 28 years old and Fridah Kathambi who was 30 years old and is a sister to Wilfred. These are not just statistics. Unfortunately, every other day we are losing Kenyans. Every other day we are waking up to statistics and I think I want to disagree with some of the sentiments expressed here that it has nothing to do with leadership. I just want to recite a saying from where I come from which says: “A herd of sheep led by a lion will any time defeat a pride of lions led by a sheep.” It all boils down to the leadership. Inspector-General Kimaiyo, Deputy Inspector-General, Grace Kaindi who is in charge of the Regular Kenya Police and Deputy Inspector-General, Samuel Arachi, we have not been seeing you. In fact, the last time I saw them is when they were receiving the President. That is not their work. We have to make decisions today because in the 10th Parliament there was the Police Act which in fact made it impossible for Inspector-General to be removed. As we sit here we cannot, as Members of Parliament, initiate a process of removing an Inspector-General or his deputy, yet we are the same people who have been vetting them. In the Constitution, it is very clear that the Inspector-General is given a non- renewable term of four years. What is the motivation of the Inspector-General or the Deputy Inspector- General to perform well knowing very well that after the four years if he does not perform well, he will not get an extension? If he performs well, nobody will remove him because it is very difficult to remove him. I beg the Inspector-General and the Deputy Inspector-General to resign honourably. Save Kenyans. These are the last numbers that we want to see. Kenyans are not statistics; these are lives lost. Right now I am paying bills because we are laying to rest the two persons who died from my constituency. I am being called upon to foot the bill.
Member for Rangwe.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I pass my condolences to the bereaved families.
Hon. Members, I see some Members looking at me with very harsh eyes. I have to follow the list here and I have told you that we have 68 requests. We will all have an opportunity. Proceed Member for Rangwe. Hon. Nkaissery, be patient.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do not comprehend how 28 people can be killed. We heard that somebody was in a bus moving with the passengers and intelligence could not pick him. The intelligence services of Kenya must now be reviewed afresh. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The Defence and Foreign Relations Committee of this Parliament must play their oversight role on the National Intelligence Service (NIS) properly to ensure that these people are working. There is serious problem with motivation among the police. I discussed with County Commander of Police in my county and I was appalled to hear that he is given Kshs.180,000 for three months to operate every quarter. I do not understand how a county commander can operate with Kshs.180,000 for three months. There is serious problem of funding security services in this country. This is where the Chairman of the Administration and National Security Committee, hon. Kamama, must come up and ensure that those who provide security are given money.
We must also address the salaries of policemen. People cannot offer you security and they are not paid. We must get the correct scheme of service for policemen. Blaming the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government, hon. ole Lenku is shifting blame. The only job that the President cannot delegate is offering security. Let us not shift blame to hon. ole Lenku. The people in charge of operation commands must be held accountable; CID, NIS, KDF and National Police Service. It is not the Cabinet Secretary who is doing accounting of money being sent to Ministries. People must take responsibility.
One thing that this Parliament must do to help this country is to remove the Administration Police from the National Police Service and take them back to the National Government Administration Officers. Chiefs and District Officers must have APs for them to operate. That is when we will begin to get security back in check. With those few remarks, I support that this Parliament approves more finances and oversees the Ministry in charge of security very closely. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Members, I will give you an opportunity to feel free to come and check where you are in this particular one. You will be very surprised that the ones who are complaining are not likely to get an opportunity to contribute. Proceed, Member for Turkana South. Let us be fair to each other. I request hon. Nkaissery to come and confirm his position in the line.
I thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute. First, every Kenyan who has lost life either through AlShabaab or cattle rustling is a very important Kenyan. Every Kenyan requires protection and security. Without blaming anybody, I want to tell those who are in charge of security that even Jesus said, “Let the dead bury themselves.’’ As Kenyans have died, are we ready to prevent more killings of Kenyans who are living? Are we ready to prevent more massacres? Is this Government ready for that?
If we have weapons that are in store please know that Kenyans need security. It does not matter what means the Government will use to provide security to Kenyans. All what Kenyans require now is security. It does not matter whether we use KDF or Kenya Police Reservists (KPR), what Kenyans require now is security.
Finally, I want to tell the Muslim leaders who are here to be sincere to Kenyans. Even us Christians, we have fears because every time Christians are losing their lives. Christians are also looking for explanations. Do they lose lives for being Christians? We want that explanation. People have lost lives in a bus for being Christians. Should we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
suffer in this nation for being Christians? Should we suffer? We want explanations because Christians have also lost lives in churches and buses. They also deserve adequate protection.
Those who are in charge of security, even us, as Members of Parliament, we have fears. If you go to a church or mosque, you are killed; if you board a bus, you are killed and if you go to a street or a hotel, you are killed, where can we go as Members of Parliament where there is security? Tell us. If it is only in this Parliament, it can be bombed any time. Can we be assured of security in this Parliament? Otherwise, if we will not be assured of this security, we will not come to this Parliament. It is better you go naked but have security. It is better for you not to wed but have security.
Member for Turkana South, your time is over. Hon. Kazungu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute. First of all, on behalf of the people of Malindi and on my own behalf, I wish to express my condolences to the 28 Kenyans who lost their lives in Mandera.
It is very unfortunate that a couple of years ago, in this country, we used to pride ourselves that in Kenya hakuna matata.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, please control the level of consultation.
Clearly, that is not the case today. Our country is disintegrating into chaos and insecurity and this must stop. Just the other day, I had a chance to go to Mpeketoni with the Deputy President when we had massacres there. I counted 28 or 30 bodies and we put them in a canter on its way to the morgue. I am seeing the same situation being replayed in Mandera. It is very unfortunate that we have such kind of events happening in our country. This must stop. Like the Members said today, our country is focusing more on economic empowerment which is a very good thing; it brings out transformation. However, that cannot happen if we have insecurity in the levels that we have today. The Government must arrest the situation forthwith. Otherwise, we will continue losing lives and opportunities.
I come from a tourism area; Malindi. There is no way you can talk of tourism today with the levels of insecurity that we have. Which tourists will come to this country to come and have fun and contribute to the economy of this country if we have these levels of insecurity? It is unacceptable. So, I want to join Kenyans in condemning these acts and this must stop. Those who are responsible must take responsibility forthwith and ensure that the lives of Kenyans are saved.
Finally, and it is something that has been said here but Members did not agree, it is about time that we looked at the issue of the levels of disintegration in security. Even in our public sphere, when we see women being stripped in matatus and people are enjoying that and our young girls and women cannot walk freely, that tells you there is a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
problem. That is barbaric. That cannot be happening in a country that prides itself of being a modern nation. I want to join Millie-Odhiambo, the Member for Mbita, who said that this has to stop because it cannot be happening in a civilized society. Finally, like I said, tourism affects all of us, our businesses and our lives.
Asante Mhe. Spika wa Muda. Nishatoa risala zangu za rambirambi kwa jamaa za waliohusika wote. Ni kweli kuwa nchi ya Kenya imekumbwa na maafa. Kenya leo ina matatizo makubwa. Ni nini tunastahili kufanya? Kama Wakenya, tunapaswa kufahamu uzito na upana wa matatizo yanayokumba taifa letu. Je, Kenya inayo sera ya usalama wa ndani wa taifa? Haina. Wajibu wetu ni nini kama Wakenya? Najua kuwa tutalaumiana; eti futa kazi ole Lenku au futa kazi Kimaiyo. Kifungu cha 240 cha Katiba ya nchi kilichobuni baraza la usalama wa taifa kimeanza na Rais, Makamu wa Rais, Waziri wa Ulinzi, Waziri wa Maswala ya Ndani na Uratibu wa Serikali ya Kitaifa, Waziri wa Masuala ya Nje, Inspekta Mkuu wa Polisi, Mkuu wa Majeshi, Mkurugenzi Mkuu wa Masuala ya Ujasusi na Mkuu wa Sheria. Hao ni watu watisa. Wakenya tunapaswa kuamua kama tutawafuta watu watisa au tutatafuta suluhisho. Lakini kuwalaumu ole Lenku na Kimaiyo haitakuwa suluhisho ya matatizo yanayoikumba nchi hii. Baraza la Usalama lina watu watisa. Baraza si ole Lenku na Kimaiyo peke yao. Kuna Rais, Makamu wa Rais, Mawaziri watatu, Mkuu wa Majeshi, Inspekta Mkuu wa Polisi, Mkuu wa Sheria na Mkuu wa Masuala ya Ujasusi. Bunge liamue na liseme waende lakini si kuwatisha ole Lenku na Kimaiyo. Hiyo si suluhisho. Leo tumetuma wanajeshi nchini Somalia. Je, mpaka wetu wa Mandera una wanajeshi wanaoulinda? Kwa nini tunashughulika zaidi mle Somalia na mpaka wetu hatuushughulikii? Kwa hivyo, tujiulize matatizo yako wapi. Tutakapopiga parapanda pamoja kuwa ole Lenku afutwe kazi, taasisi itabaki. Ile kamati ya usalama wa taifa bado iko. Hata Kimaiyo akifutwa kazi, yule Kamishna wa Polisi atakayemfuata, atakuwa mmoja wao. Nimesikitika. Wengine wanasema kuwa manaibu wafutwe kazi. Watafutwa vipi ilhali wao sio wanachama wa Baraza la Usalama wa Taifa? Kwa hivyo, tusielekezwe na hamasa na hasira. Tuyajue haya matatizo na tutafute suluhisho mwafaka.
Maj-Gen. Nkaissery, you have seen that you were down in the line, now you are at the top. You can now contribute.
The issue of gender will come up later. Let us proceed with hon. Maj-Gen. Nkaissery.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. It is very important to approach this issue of security very soberly. First, ole Lenku is not the problem. The people who recruited 3,000 Kenyans whose whereabouts we do not know are the problem. Our security should be better than this. Our people should be given proper security. When you look at Mandera, the commander on the ground; the County Commissioner, with his security team should have planned a strategy on how to escort citizens from Mandera to Wajir. In fact, they could have organized with the Security Committee of Wajir to change over the escort. That is not ole Lenku’s responsibility. Ole Lenku is not a ground commander; ole Lenku is a policy maker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
When you look at the National Security Council, the President is the chairperson and there are other eight members. In a team of nine, you cannot isolate one individual just because he is the one who is occupying that docket. I want to support the security organ by empowering it. If we have a Police Commander who has no mobility or command communication, how can he use that position to safeguard the security of Kenya? Security is the provision of safeguarding our own interests. As we debate here, we should suggest solutions on how we can safeguard this nation. The most important thing that we need to look into is to give resources to the security organs. The police in particular have no mobility. A Police Commander in Baragoi cannot move because the vehicles are occupied by very senior people in Nairobi. This is really a critical issue. As we condemn individuals as a House, we must give solutions. Today, this country is under the threat of terrorism. The counter-intelligence position must come into play. We need to suggest solutions and leave condemnation of individuals. Ole Lenku has no role in what happened in Mandera.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to take this opportunity to condole with the families and friends of the departed souls. Indeed, as Kenyans we are all mourning. The security situation in this country is really wanting. I agree with the Members that it is not about what ole Lenku has not done or what he will not do but it is about what ole Lenku will never learn to do. The NIS is a dead branch. It is not their business to be telling us who is moving out with whose wife or daughter in the village. That is not of any consequence to this country. They should be serious about things that affect the lives of Kenyans. It is sad that some of the security organs and some of the commissions like the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) and the National Police Service Commission, who we mandated to reform the Police Service are very busy taking each other to court with the very same taxes that we pay them. A few months ago, this country recruited 10,000 people to join the Kenya Police College. Up to date, they have not been able to join the Kenya Police College because the National Police Service Commission and IPOA cannot agree on how to work. In fact, the National Police Service Commission was there long before ole Lenku came. If they are not able to do the police reforms, this Commission has no business being there and spending taxpayers’ money which we pay so dearly. It should be disbanded and should go home. The most blamed individuals in Kenya today are ole Lenku and the devil. When something fails to happen or happens the other way, we blame them.
When a black woman gets a white baby, we blame the devil just the same way we are blaming Mr. ole Lenku for everything. But to Mr. ole Lenku, sometimes you must make decisions. If somebody or anybody is sabotaging Mr. ole Lenku, in good spirit Mr. ole Lenku should resign and go home.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This is a serious matter. When it comes to security matters, the buck stops at Presidency. As we speak today, I am hoping His Excellency the President is listening. He is the Head of State and on the issues of security, the buck stops with him. We cannot just condemn others and leave the leadership. We have been told several times--- The Westgate issue was there. There was also the Kapedo issue. We have been told of Mpeketoni and now it is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Mandera. Tomorrow it is going to be Nairobi. Are we really safe? It is the responsibility of the Government to protect the security of Kenyans plus their property. The Head of State has all the security apparatus and he should ensure that action is taken. On the issue of Mr. ole Lenku, he may not be in the operation but he is there in terms of leadership. We are speaking with bitterness because we are not safe. This is the time that---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
We do not want sycophancy.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Even before I go to my point of order, you have heard what the hon. Member has said.
You have heard what the hon. Member has said. Would he kindly apologize and withdraw that remark before I go to the point of order.
The second bit. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I personally lost two members from Mbeere North in the Mandera Massacre. Is the hon. Member on the Floor, hon. Wakhungu, in order to insinuate that the President of this country is not using the security apparatus to check insecurity in this country?
Is he in order when you know and it is on record that 100 militia men were killed? It is on record from the Deputy President?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, because I never referred to anybody when I talked of sycophancy, I do not have to withdraw in this case. What I was saying is this---
I meant this issue of police sycophancy. Police sycophancy is what I am talking about. I never referred to anybody.
For the sake of this House, now I withdraw but I never referred to anybody.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I never referred to anybody. We are speaking with bitterness today. Many professionals have lost their lives. The young people, the teachers who had gone to Mandera lost their lives. The doctors who had gone to Mandera lost their lives. There is a case where a guy had gone to see his son. Unless there is security for professionals in Mandera, they should not report to Mandera. Unless security is assured, they should not go to Mandera. We are very disappointed. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me say kama ni mbaya ni mbaya; na kama ni nzuri ni nzuri. Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, hii ni mbaya; na ni mbaya kabisa. Kila Mkenya saa hii akifikiria yale mambo yaliyofanyika Mandera, afikirie yale mambo ambayo yamefanyika Pwani, afikirie mambo ambayo yamefanyika kule Kapedo na sehemu zingine za nchi hii, kama ni mbaya ni mbaya. Ni lazima tuseme ukweli. Hapa tunasema mambo ya Bw. ole Lenku na Bw. Kimaiyo na tunasahau ni nani aliyeandika Bw. Kimaiyo kazi.
Kuna Mzee anaitwa Bw. Kavulundi na timu yake yote ambao wanashughulika na
ovyo ovyo lakini hatujawahi kusikia akiongea mambo ya security ya nchi hii. Tunataka kumwambia Kavuludi akusanye virago vyake na aondoke kwa sababu yeye ndiye anapiganisha watu kule ndani. Tuko na hiyo habari. Serikali ya Jubilee inaendelea kuongea mambo ya maendeleo. Hakuna maendeleo ambayo tunaweza kufanya kama usalama wa wananchi wa Kenya unahatarishwa kila wakati. Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, jana nilikuwa eneo Bunge langu la Kajiado Magharibi. Kulikuwa na maandamano ya akina mama wakisema ya kwamba kwa sababu ya usalama wao, walisha ngamia kule Kajiado Magharibi wataondoka. Ni kwa sababu gani? Wanasema wanaona watu wakiuliwa kwa sababu ya mambo ya misikiti. Hiyo ni kusema namna gani? Nilisimama nikawaambia Kenya hii ni ya Wakenya wote na tuweze kuheshimiana, lakini kwa sababu ya yale matendo ambayo tunayaona, hata usalama Kenya hii unakuwa katika hatari. Ni wakati ambapo tutasimama kama Wabunge na tuseme ya kwamba usalama wa kila Mkenya lazima ulindwe. Kama watu wataenda nyumbani, waende maana kama ni mbaya ni mbaya.
Very well. Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to mourn my eight constituents and the other 20 Kenyans who were killed in Mandera. This is not a forum for blame games against Kimaiyo or ole Lenku. Why can we not blame ourselves as leaders? We have not given the Police Department adequate funding. The terms and conditions of service of police officers are worse than those of the
we employ in our homes. Why can we not provide solutions? The solutions I provide are these: First, when we get back the Budget, we must give more funds to the Department of Police. Two, the communities living where we have these problems must also participate in giving solutions and not castigating the Government agencies. I would like to see the day when leaders in Mombasa, Mandera or Mpeketoni will sit down and give us solutions to those problems instead of castigating the Government. Finally, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if we let these people to continue with their terrorist activities, we may create a Boko Haram in this country. This country will be worse than Somalia where we have gone to restore peace or Nigeria which we have been laughing at. So, what should we do? Let us support the Government. Even if ole Lenku is sacked tomorrow and we have not improved our systems, what would we achieve? Let us not engage in blame games. Let us provide solutions. The Muslim community in this country must get together and think about these problems lest we go the Middle East way where they kill each other. With those few remarks, I beg to support the Mover.
Hon. Members I am consulting to see if we can add a few more minutes for more hon. Members to contribute. Just a few minutes, probably, five hon. Members after the hour.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this time to contribute to this important Motion. Time has come for us leaders to get out of these blames. When we talk of the resignation of our security team, people start taking sides. We cannot take the lives of Kenyans through lines of tribalism, clanism and all that. We need to be serious on this. When we talk of those who are handling those offices, it is not the issue of Mr. ole Lenku; it is not the issue of Mr. Kimaiyo; it is not the issue of hon. Abongotum, it is the issue of that office. So, we cannot talk like that. When we talk of hon. Abongotum, somebody asks, “why hon. Abongotum?” We are talking about that Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security which does oversight on security. So, if hon. Abongotum and his Committee are not doing a good job, this is the time for them to quit and we get another Committee. If it is the time for Mr. ole Lenku to quit, let him quit. When we talk of the National Security Council (NSC), we also need to check that list. Why are we mentioning Mr. ole Lenku and Mr. Kimaiyo? Can we name all those names? This is so that we can know how this game is being played because it is the names of Mr. ole Lenku and Mr. Kimaiyo which are mentioned from the nine names. Who are these others? This is the time to see the whole list of the nine people and we come out with the way forward on how we can save Kenyans. It is not the issue of us going this way or that way. We cannot continue talking about this issue forever. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
With those few remarks, I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker---
Before I go to my point, protect me from hon. Members. I came as early as 2.00 p.m.
What are you justifying, hon. Dukicha? You have two more minutes to finalize.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, today I am a very sad Kenyan. I have come to this House and I have only one option. I have the password for Mr. ole Lenku and his group. The password for all the security apparatus is “they must go”. They have to go because the welfare---
You are interfering bwana . Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the welfare of the society, of the Kenyan people, the 40 million Kenyans is better than the nine people who are just threatening our lives. When it is black, it is black. When it is white, it is white. Now it is very black and we are going to red.
They have to resign. They have to show the way. Today, a Minister in the USA in charge of security, resigned just because one African has been killed. How many people have been killed by terrorists and Al-Shabaab since--- How many are they? Our people are being killed in Kapedo, Tana River, Mombasa, Mandera and Nairobi. Why are you afraid? Why are you covering? While you are doing the covering, the Almighty God will not forgive us. I held the Quran in this House and I said I will protect the Constitution of this Republic; I will protect the people of the Republic of Kenya and if I will not say the truth here, I will never say the truth anywhere; any place. So, Mr. Kimaiyo and his group, the security team including Mr. Kavuludi and all others must be shown the way! Just go! To add insult to injury, I have seen conflict coming. I have to say in this House and it has to go on record because it is important. Hon. Kuria, who is in this House, has been tweeting since yesterday that Somalis should go there in their masses. All those who are working, the Somalis should go there and kill one another. We are Kenyans. We condemn the act.
Your time is over.
Bwana Naibu Spika wa Muda, yangu ni kupeana pole kwa familia za wenzetu ambao waliuliwa kule Mandera.
I can hear hon. (Ms.) Kajuju shouting “gender”. I am wondering what you would consider hon. Leshoomo to be.
Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Usalama si kitu cha kupigia kelele ama kuongea mengi. Tunafaa kungalia ni njia gani tunaweza kuwaokoa Wakenya. Tumesikia uchungu sana kuona vile wenzetu waliuliwa. Kuna kifo ambacho hakina uchungu, lakini wenzetu waliuliwa kwa uchungu sana. Tunafaa kujua ni The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
kitu gani kimefanyika ndio mambo kama hayo yatokee. Tunasikia kuwa wananchi walitolewa kwa basi na wakagawanya kati ya Wakristo na Waislamu. Ni lazima kuyaangalia mambo hayo. Kuongea na kusema ni nani atafutwa kazi au ni nani hatafutwa, ni lazima tuyaangalie kwa sababu si ukweli kuwa watu walipatikana na magaidi ghafla. Gaidi ni nani? Gaidi ni yule mtu ambaye tunakaa naye kwa nyumba. Ni lazima tuangalie hawa magaidi ni akina nani. Sisi wafugaji tunasema kuwa vijana wetu wanaenda kuiba, lakini inajulikana wakienda kupigana. Kwa nini haijulikani hawa magaidi wanatoka wapi na wanaenda wapi? Tungeomba kujua haya mambo yote kwa sababu kwa nini hawa magaidi hawakuwaua watu wote? Viongozi wa upande huo wanafaa kurudi huku ili kuangalia taabu hii inatoka wapi ili ukweli kuhusu ni nini kinachoendelea upatikane. Hatufai kusema ni nani atafutwa kazi au ni nani hatafutwa kazi. Ni lazima viongozi warudi huko ili wajue hii taabu imetokea wapi.
(Hon. Cheboi) Okay, that marks the end of the time, but I have chosen to give a chance to three Members from the Opposition for two minute each; two male colleagues and a lady. I will also give a chance to three Members from this other side. Finally, the Leader of Majority Party will sum it up and we will close. You realize that we will have extended, but it will be for two minutes. Let us start with hon. Mishi. As she prepares, hon. Member for Rongai. This is a decision that I have made. So, hon. Moi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity to ventilate. I would like to, first of all, express my condolences to the people of Mandera.
As hon. Moi speaks, for your information, I am not following the list as it is here. I am simply looking at the areas I have not touched.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to express my condolences to the people of Mandera, Kapedo and all those who have suffered from this kind of violence. One of the major issues that we have to look at is the laxity of security agencies. It is very apparent even when you go into a police station. When you report an incident in a police station, the police do not take it very seriously. They will merely jot it down in the Occurrence Book, close that book and forget it. No one is accountable in this country. There is a negative attitude. I am from Baringo County, but I represent Rongai Constituency. The incident that occurred there a few weeks ago was atrocious. However, to send members of the KDF to try to bring sanity to the people of Baringo, will not help. It means, as someone has said, the Police Force has failed. When you send the KDF to a place like Baringo, you might for a moment restore peace, but the hatred towards the security forces that has been planted in Baringo is terrible. We were there the other day. We are telling the leadership of this country that KDF is not the solution.
For the youth, I will look at hon. Sakaja here. Hon Sakaja.
Hon. Mishi, you will take your seat. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Two minutes is a short time and I have a lot of things to say, but I will go quickly. First of all, I want to offer my condolences, as well, to the affected families and the people who have been affected directly by this. Secondly, we have heard Kenyans lamenting from everywhere. When you listen to radio, Kenyans are lamenting. When you walk in the streets, Kenyans are lamenting. The question we must ask ourselves at this point is: What is the disposition at such a time that leaders should take? Should we leaders also lament or should we leaders sit down at such a forum as the National Assembly and offer a solution? Look at the problem of security holistically and give the way forward. Because of time, I will give a quick analogy. If you have a cold or flu today, and your nose is running, if you cut off your nose, you will still have that cold. Two people at the top cannot be the problem of security. We have systemic issues. Do we have the right institutional and legal framework to deal with insecurity and terror? Those are the questions we must address in this House because we are legislators. We are not just an amplification of the people complaining on radio. Let us offer solutions. Let us look at these issues holistically. Let us address the massive corruption in the Office of the President. Let us address the problem of command structure. Let us look at problems in the Constitution where you have an independent police force in a country that is devolved. You cannot have a police force that gets instructions from three different people. As leaders, let us offer leadership; let us not be the loudest people lamenting. I will leave it at that because of time.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will start by saying this: If you want to know that we are losing it, it is when you hear that the police of this nation have been killed by civilians. Then that is the beginning of problems in this country. I am wondering what is happening to mwananchi at the grassroots if at all police are being killed. I think all of us, as my colleagues who have spoken before have said, have responsibilities. As this House, we have the responsibility to amend what needs to be amended to make sure that the security is put into place. Two, I also want to call on the leadership heading the police force. I want to say this: What the Al Shabaab or cattle raiders are doing of late is to go to those areas where nobody can suspect what they are doing. Most of them are hiding in churches while others are hiding in mosques. It is high time the police moved in to where they suspect that these people are being trained with no fear. If they suspect it is the church, they should follow them into the church and find out what is happening. The church has also failed because they do not tell us when we do wrong. I want to tell the church, a woman represents the church. If you go undressing women out there and the church keeps quiet, it is high time they came out and spoke when things go wrong in this nation. To the citizens of Kenya, when you see things going wrong or a few boys have gathered somewhere and you suspect them, you better report whatever is going on. It is the responsibility of the entire nation to be on the lookout for what is happening in this nation. As we are saying everyone has failed---
(Hon. Cheboi) Your time is up!
Ahsante, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Kwa kweli swala hili kuzungumzia kwa dakika mbili hata sijui niache kuzungumza ama nizungumze vipi kwa The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
sababu sisi ni miongoni mwa wale ambao tumeathirika pakubwa katika swala hili. Lakini pengine moja ama mawili ambayo nitazungumzia ni kwamba hivi sasa, nafikiri sote twafahamu ya kwamba hata wale wachezaji katika mpira wakiwa ni wazuri, lakini wanapofanya makosa, lawama zote zinaenda kwa coach . Hali halisi ilivyo katika Kenya yetu kwa maswala ya usalama, imekua ni swala ambalo lazungumzwa kila siku lakini halionekani kupata suluhisho. Ni vyema tukiwa kama viongozi, kama wajumbe, tulitafutie suluhisho jambo hili. Kwa kweli, tulitafutie suluhisho jambo hili. Iwapo tutaliacha kuendelea namna hivi na kulijadili ama kupeana lawama hapa na pale, hatutafika katika zile suluhisho ambazo tuko nazo. Matatizo yapo. Watu wanauawa. Hivi sasa tunavyozungumza, katika Jimbo la Lamu watu hawana ruhusa ya kutoka nje usiku kwa sababu hakuna usalama. Haya yote yamechangia kuzorota kwa uchumi katika sehemu zetu. Kuna umuhimu mkubwa kwa swala hili kuangaziwa pakubwa na sisi viongozi na viongozi wote katika nchi hii. Tukianza kulaumiana hatutapata suluhisho. Ni wajibu wetu sote kuhakikisha kwamba tumeliangalia swala hili. Watu wote waliopewa majukumu katika maswala haya ni lazima tuangalie kwa sababu hawa ambao wanafariki leo na kesho ni ndugu zetu na tunawajibika kuhakikisha kwamba tumekomesha haya. Hivi sasa watu wanaumia na kuteseka kwa sababu ya tatizo hili la kutokuwa na usalama.
Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii. Nataka kutoa risala zangu za rambirambi kwa ndugu zetu wa Mandera, Kapedo na Mombasa kwa sababu ya kuuawa katika njia tatanishi za kupitia hawa AlShabaab . Wakati huu si wakati wa kutoa tu matatizo. Ni wakati wa kuuliza: Ni njia gani mwafaka itatusaidia ili Kenya yetu iwe na usalama? Ingekuwa sawa kwanza tujizatiti katika kulinda mipaka yetu. Lazima kuna ulegevu katika kulinda mipaka yetu. Juzi katika Jimbo la Mombasa, tuliona katika Masjid Musa na Masjid Mina kumepatikana gruneti, bastola na silaha zingine. Silaha hizi zinaingia kutoka wapi na kupitia wapi? Ikiwa walinda usalama wamejua ya kwamba msikiti fulani ama mahali fulani pamekuwa pahali nyeti kwa sababu ya mambo ya Al Shabaab, kwa nini macho yao yote hayawi mahali kama hapo? Kwa nini wale maofisa wetu hawawezi kuweka macho yao katika sehemu kama hizo? Tunashangaa mpaka sasa kusikia Masjid Musa na Masjid Mina kumepatikana silaha. Sisi lazima kwanza tulinde nchi yetu wenyewe katika mipaka yetu kabla hatujaingia Somalia. Jambo la mwisho, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, wanajeshi wetu wanalipwa duni. Wanapata kidogo cha shilingi 80,000 kwenda kuuza roho zao. Ikiwa wanalipwa pesa ambazo haziwezi kuwapa motisha---
Your time is up. Hon. Lentoimaga. Please, let us observe time because we now want to finalise with the Leader of Majority Party.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. My condolences go to the families and relatives of the deceased. The Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security had visited Mandera and found out it was completely under the Al Shabaab . There are 300 police officers there who do not come out of their houses because their morale is very The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
low and they do not have fuel. So, the issue is to address reforms in the police force as a way forward. We need to look at corruption and the morale of the police. If the police are being killed right, left and centre, their morale goes down so much. The other issue is about the command structure. In my county, and I know it is the same in Nakuru, the police have two systems: the Administration Police and the Regular Police. Who can command them? They are parallel and they report differently. Even the President had given an Executive Order so that they can deal with those things the way hon. Nkaissery had said. The police can deal with those issues on their own. However, they are unable because none of them is in charge of the other. So, we need to look at that particular issue of the police having parallel structures.
The other issue is that if we are deploying the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) which this House had actually approved to Mandera or wherever, we need to have foot soldiers, not just jet fighters. We need to deploy them right from Bula-hawa, 100 kilometres inside so that they can deal with these people. Lastly, the issue of illegal firearms is another epidemic in this country. If it is not addressed---
The Leader of Majority Party.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. On the outset, I want to send my condolences to the many Kenyans, not only in the Mandera incident, but those who died in acts of terror in Kapedo, Baragoi and Nairobi. Secondly, the matter before us is a serious matter. It is bigger than Mr. ole Lenku. It is bigger than Mr. Kimaiyo. It is about our national security. If I quote what the Americans said when New York was hit on 11th September, 2001; from the media to the Opposition to the Government, they said in one word: “Our nation is under attack, let us defend our borders.” What we are facing is global terror. There is no difference between what is happening in Iraq or Syria and what is happening in the Horn of Africa. When I see the former Prime Minister, the former Vice- President and the Leader of FORD(K), in this House, they are the ones who sent the KDF to Somalia. It is not President Uhuru Kenyatta; it is not William Ruto. Today, what we need, as a country, is not to lament. It is this House and the Constitution that have a fundamental structure. It is only in Kenya where you have two police forces; one called Administration Police with a different command structure and another one called Kenya Police Service. There is nowhere else in the world. I want to ask a fundamental question: If tonight Mr. ole Lenku is sacked; if tonight Mr. Kimaiyo is sacked, can somebody give guarantee that Al-Shabaab will stop the attacks? The answer is no! Mr. Kimaiyo and Mr. ole Lenku lead men and women. They lead a force. We must scrutinize and vet the whole force. What is killing the security system in our country is corruption. Arms are brought from every corner; from Karamojong, Ethiopia and Somalia. They end up in Nairobi because in all the road blocks, our police officers are bribed. If you have US$2000, and I will say it on the Floor of the House, you can bomb Harambee House. What is killing our people is corruption. Our documents are sold. It is the only country in the world where your foreign citizen documents are sold: Our identification documents (IDs) and our passports. They were not sold during President Uhuru Kenyatta’s time. They were sold in all the successive Governments. The Government of his dad; the Government of mzee The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Moi, the Government of Mzee K ibaki and that of mkate nusu . We have a serious thing. What do we need to do now? We need to unite across the political divide. The religious leaders, be they Muslims, Christians or Hindus have a fundamental role to play. We will not allow our houses of worship to be turned into-- Be it a Christian house; be it a Muslim house; be it a Hindu house or a synagogue, it is a house of worship. In my constituency, there are over 500 mosques. At 8:30 p.m. after the last prayer, it is closed and then it is opened at 5.00 a.m. We must ask ourselves: Where did the rain start beating us? We must stand with the President. We must stand as political leaders. We must offer a solution. We have the legislative powers. The days are gone when we pointed fingers. Days are gone. We have 28 Kenyans who were butchered. Let AlShabaab not cheat us. Let them not use the card to divide our country along religious and ethnic lines. Every day, they kill Muslims in Mogadishu. They kill ministers and students. Are they Christians? They are not Christians. When they say that they have killed 28 Kenyans because of Mombasa, shame on them. They do not represent anybody. The card they are playing is to divide our nation; a united nation, based on religion and ethnicity. Let this House unite. Let the political divide unite. Let us stand together with the President and the Government and make sure Kenya is a safe country. Without peace, there is no development. Without peace, the Jubilee Government will not fulfill its promises. If today the Jubilee Coalition in the National Assembly fails, hon. Duale must take responsibility. I am the leader of the Jubilee Coalition in the House. But security is different. I want to ask the Members, if the President lands tonight and sacks ole Lenku and Kimaiyo, what assurance can we get that Al Shabaab will not cross the border?
They can be sacked. Many went, but the Commissioner of Police of the yester- governments is different from the current Inspector- General. We are dealing with a serious global terror. If you look at the performance of ole Lenku and Kimaiyo, normal crime has gone down under their watch.
Hon. Member for Kwanza, what is your point of order?
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. With all due respect to the Leader of Majority Party, we are not saying that these people are the only Kenyans who can do that job. We are saying that we should have a change and he can be in that position and do the job. We are saying that they should take the responsibility.
That is not a point of order. The Leader of Majority Party is giving his opinion and he is entitled to it.
Hakuna kitu kama hicho!
The Leader of Majority Party, finalise because we want to conclude.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, that was not a point of order. I want to ask my colleagues, the political leadership, religious leadership, the business community, the media, women, youth and the elders of Kenya, let us stand together behind the President in solving the security problem of our nation. Our country is under attack.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me the chance. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Members. I realise there was a lot interest in this particular Motion. Close to 40 Members did not participate and I apologise. Hon. Members, the time being 6.50 p.m., this House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 26th November, 2014, at 9.30 a.m.
House rose at 6.50 p.m.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.