Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask that this be considered as a matter of urgency.

Next Order!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought that the Clerk- at-the-Table was going to read out the Bills which are appearing on the Order Paper for First Readings. I was going to ask that---

We are now moving on to Order No.6, that is, Questions. May I call upon the Member for Mosop, hon. Sambu, to ask his Question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Administration and National Security the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Is the Minister aware that on 19th July, 2005, at Kabiyet Police Post, a police officer, Inspector Mohammed, took away a little boy, Cohen Kiplagat, then aged one-and-half years? (b) Is he further aware that none of the child's relatives has seen him since? (c) Could the Minister inform the House where the child is and ensure that he is reunited with his parents and disciplinary action taken against the officer in question for separating such a young child from his parents?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Question was brought to us this morning. I have spent quite a lot of time trying to get facts about this Question. I want to admit that, up to now, there are some things which are not clear in my mind. I, therefore, wish to seek the indulgence of this House to allow me to bring a 554 comprehensive answer before this House, tomorrow afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saddened by the inefficiency of this Ministry because this Question concerns the life of a young boy who was abducted by a policeman. I submitted this Question two weeks ago and the child has been missing since July, 2005. The parents of the child are really being tormented. Be that as it may, I hope that tomorrow in the afternoon there will be no change.

Very well, Mr. Sambu. I agree with you that it is an important matter. However, it is just a matter of 24 hours. Mr. Kingi, please, make sure that this Question is answered tomorrow in the afternoon at around this time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister for Roads and Public Works the following Question by Private Notice. (a) Could the Minister confirm that the Government has received graders, tippers, loaders and other vehicles for road construction work in districts around the country? (b) Which districts are to benefit from the equipment?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I wish to confirm that the Ministry has received a total of 216 pieces of road maintenance and construction equipment through a loan from the Government of the Republic of Korea. (b) The equipment will be managed under the Mechanical and Transport Fund and will be located strategically at the 16 regional centres countrywide in order to benefit all the districts as per the attached list. The equipment will be available for hire at a fee to all roads agencies, district roads committees and constituencies development committees. The proposed regional offices are as follows: One in Nairobi; two in Eastern Province in Isiolo and Embu; two in Coast Province, in Mombasa and Garsen; three in Rift Valley Province in Eldoret, Nakuru and Kericho; two in Nyanza Province in Kisii and Kisumu; two in Central Province in Nyeri and Thika; two in Western Province in Bungoma and Kakamega; and two in North Eastern Province, in Garissa and Wajir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I find it very strange indeed that this Government could again establish 16 regional centres with no actual basis for that. However, since the Assistant Minister has said that he has 216 pieces of road maintenance and construction equipment could he possibly list those items and tell us exactly what kind of equipment is being brought into this country from Korea?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of the equipment has arrived, while the rest is still in high seas. Out of a total of 144 dump-plucks, we have received 89 of them and 55 dump- plucks have not yet arrived. We also have received all the 18 loaders and 11 forty-tonne tractors which are prime movers. We have not received any of the forty-ton rowbade trailers, although 11 of them are in the high-seas. Out of 16 excavators, four, each with a capacity of 31 to 38 tonnes, have been received, but 12 of them are still in the high seas. We have received all the 16 breakers and none is in the high seas. We have not yet received any of the 12 motor graders. They are still in the high seas too. Out of the 78 double-cabs, 4 by 4 pick-ups which are of 2700cc to 2900cc, we have received none. They are still in high seas. Eight 240-horsepower bulldozers are still in the April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 555 high seas. So, we have received a total of 216 pieces of equipment and a balance of 98 pieces which are still in the high seas will be received in one lot.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister provide the rates for hiring these equipment? Could he tell this House when he will avail that information to us so that when we can deal with the hiring of equipment, we know how to deal with the officers concerned?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since this new equipment arrived last month, the Chief Mechanical and Transport Engineer will have to work out new rates that will be used for hiring. It is not possible, at the moment, to give you the hire rates for all the equipment because every equipment has got its own hire rate. I can assure hon. Members that the rates that will be worked out by the Chief Mechanical and Transport Engineer will be reasonable. Most likely they will be below the market value that you will get from the private companies.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister confirm whether the machines they have received have been dispatched to their respective stations? If not, when will he dispatch them? Will these machines be under the DWO or the PWO?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, retrenchment of drivers and operators has been going on over the years. We are recruiting new drivers and plant operators, but they have not been deployed yet. According to the list that I have read out, some of the equipment will go to the distilling units, besides what will go to the regions. We will have to train them first so that they will be able to operate the new equipment which is very expensive.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has said that there will be two centres at the Coast; one in Mombasa and the other one in Garsen. I am from Kilifi District which is in between those two areas and well over 150 kilometres apart. Is the Assistant Minister realistic when he says that we will hire this equipment from that distance?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these are the centres that have been found to be adequate for maintenance purposes. We are improving on additional regions. Instead of basing all the equipment in Mombasa for the whole of Coast Province, we have got two centres. It is an improvement because we do not want to put all the equipment at the provincial headquarters which will be very far away from some of the districts.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to know the criteria the Assistant Minister used to create these 16 zones.

You are out of order!

asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) whether he is aware that water pipes worth millions of shillings will go to waste as a result of the stalled Segutyet Water Project; and, (b) if he could consider reviving the project in the next Financial Year 2006/2007.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that during the Financial Year 1996/97 Kshs737,500 was allocated for 556 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 construction of Segutyet Water Project. All the funds were utilised to purchase 133 four-inch GI pipes out of 222 pipes required for the rising main. Since the available funds were not adequate for this project, the works could not start. (b) My Ministry will consider reviving this project and other similar projects depending on the budgetary allocations to my Ministry in the next financial year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while appreciating the Assistant Minister's answer, being his maiden reply in the House, I would like to inform him that this was a project funded by the Government in the 1996/1997 Financial Year. It has taken about 11 years to request the Ministry to look into this project. Those are many years and the people from Kamguso have been

looking forward to having water provided to them. How much money was allocated to these projects initially and, what is the cost now considering that it has stalled for 11 years?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that the people in this area need water. As a result, they were forced to form a community management committee. They conceived this project and they were assisted by the Catholic Diocese of Nakuru to come up with a design. They did a survey and came up with a design. In most cases, our Ministry has been under-funded. During this financial year, the Government tried to fund our Ministry to the tune of Kshs10.5 billion. If we receive sufficient funds again this year, I want to give the assurance that this project is one of our priorities. At the time when the project was conceived, it cost Kshs6,276,000.33, but to date, the project requires Kshs7.5 million.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the answers being given by the Assistant Minister, there are stalled water projects countrywide. Kimilili Water Project was initiated by the Government to the tune of Kshs16.5 million. In 1977 this project was abandoned on political grounds. I would like the Assistant Minister to tell this House how he will revive all those water projects which will benefit the public.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with the hon. Member that most of the water projects had initially stalled. I said that the Ministry received only Kshs2 billion but it is now well-funded. We will ensure that all the stalled water projects are funded and completed. I request the House to impress upon the Minister for Finance to allocate more money to my Ministry to complete all the stalled water projects.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Owing to the fact that this is the first time the Assistant Minister is replying to a Question, I would like him to begin on a good footing by reviving Segutyet Water Project. Could the Assistant Minister assure this House that, this being his first reply to a Question in this House, he will give this project the first priority during the next financial year?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Member that the Ministry intends to revive all the stalled water projects. We have lumped all these projects together and Segutyet Water Project is ranking among the top five.

asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) whether he is aware that the Busia Hill Water Scheme distribution pipes are too old and narrow to bear the pressure from Sisenye intake point to even the nearest centre in Funyula Division, leading to frequent pipe bursts; April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 557 (b) whether he could urgently address the need for a water reservoir tank either at Busia or Nang'ining'ini Hills in order to establish a continuous flow and distribution to Funyula Division; and, (c) whether he could further consider installing a standby generator at Busia Hills water intake point to provide power when electricity fails, to avert frequent interruptions of domestic water supply.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that the distribution pipes at Busia Hills Water Supply experience frequent bursts due to old age and their sizes and are inadequate to satisfy the water demand in the supply area. The pipes were laid during the period 1976/77 to carry 300 cubic metres of water per day against the current water demand of about 600 cubic metres per day. (b) My Ministry recognises that the storage facilities for the water supply are inadequate. At present, only one tank of 90 cubic metres capacity is in use as the second tank is severely cracked. My Ministry will construct a 100 cubic metres storage tank at Busia in the 2006/2007 Financial Year. (c) My Ministry, through the Lake Victoria North Water Services Board, will install a standby generator at the water supply's intake in the coming financial year. My Ministry has also requested the Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC) to consider installing a sub-station at Mundere and Bumbe so as to reduce power fluctuations which are not only disrupting the operations of this water supply, but are also damaging pumping equipment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I thank the Assistant Minister for his answer, could he consider answering part "a" of the Question? I wanted to be told when those burst pipes will be replaced. That is the major problem that has prevented us from receiving water from Busia Hill Water Scheme. Could the Assistant Minister tell us when those pipes will be replaced? I am glad that he recognises the fact that those pipes were laid down in 1977.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I concur with the hon. Member's concern. I assure her that those pipes will be replaced in the next financial year. They have been budgeted for by the Ministry and the Lake Victoria North Water Services Board. I would like to assure the hon. Member that, that project, together with other construction works that I have stated in part "b" of my reply, will be carried out in this financial year.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are many water projects around the country that face similar problems. Could the Assistant Minister tell the House what his Ministry is doing to revive all the stalled water projects in the country? I have a water project in my constituency known as Malanga Sidindi which the Ministry started reviving about three years ago but it stalled half-way. Could the Assistant Minister tell us the comprehensive policy put in place to revive the stalled water projects throughout the country in the coming financial year?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with the hon. Member about the stalled water projects in the country. The Ministry is currently at an advanced stage in implementing reforms in order to deliver services to the people more efficiently. Most of those works have been delegated to regional boards that are supposed to carry out those functions on behalf of the Ministry. I would like to inform the House that the Budget for this Ministry has been increasing in the last three years. Rehabilitation works for the water projects that stalled in the past have increased, commensurate with the increased budget to the Ministry. Therefore, I would like to inform the House that we will continue in the same impetus to ensure that we revive most of the stalled water projects and establish new ones.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Does the Assistant Minister realise that his colleague comes from the same area? His colleague, Mr. Wanjala, can attest to the fact that, that area is highly-infected with cholera. Could the Assistant Minister tell us the plans or programmes they have to supply the people of that area with clean drinking water so that they can 558 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 get rid of cholera? Even when they---

Order, Dr. Ojiambo! You have done justice to your Question. Let the Assistant Minister respond to it!

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform the hon. Member that the responsibility of this Government is to provide services to Kenyans regardless of their political persuasions. It does not matter whether they are in the Government or in the Opposition. So, all Kenyans deserve better services. I assure the hon. Member that we are determined to provide clean water to the people of Budalangi and Funyula.

asked the Minister for Local Government:- (a) whether he is aware that more than 200,000 Kenyans continue to live in sub-human conditions in the majority of Nairobi slums; and, (b) what plans he has to improve the quality of life of these Kenyans without increasing their cost of living.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am aware that over 200,000 Kenyans continue to live in sub-human conditions in the majority of slums in Nairobi. (b) The Ministry, together with other development partners, has programmes that are on- going to improve the facilities in the slums. We have installed lights in the slums to beef up security. We have started constructing pedestrian pathways and also upgrading various infrastructure in the slum areas. The Ministry is also involved in the upgrading of houses in Kibera slums.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I hoped that the Minister would be here because I do not know whether the copy of the written answer that I was given was meant for me or not. This is because my name is mis-spelt. Secondly, the answer seems to have been worked on from a desk without anybody visiting the slum areas to see how the people of Nairobi live. Thirdly, a zero is missing. If you look at the population of Nairobi of nearly four million, you will find that about 50 per cent live in sub-standard houses. That is about two million people. Could the Minister tell us the plans he has to improve the living standards of Kenyans?

Prof. Oniang'o, I thought you said that you wished the Minister was here, and yet he is here!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I said that I was happy that the Minister for Local Government is here. That gives me the impression that he did not really read this answer before he signed it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologise for mis-spelling the name of the gracious lady. I said that the problems of the slums are problems that have been with us for 40 years due to the lopsided development in the country between the rural and the urban areas. We have obviously had an influx of people from the rural areas into urban centres at an alarming rate. This is an issue that should not be handled by the Ministry of Local Government alone, but by all of us. We should make sure that there are programmes in the agricultural sector to keep people in the rural areas. That is one way through which we can lower the influx of people into the cities and urban areas and manage the slums. However, programmes are now underway to upgrade the slums. Already, in Kibera slums, the slum upgrading programme has taken off and the Minister for Housing, if he was here, could confirm that the ground breaking has been done. So, we will April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 559 improve the standard of living for the slum dwellers.

Bw. Naibu Spika, ninampongeza sana Mbunge ambaye ameliuliza Swali hili. Hii ni kwa sababu mwaka mmoja na nusu, niliuliza Swali kama hili na sikupata jibu halisi. Inaonekana kwamba hakuna mipango halisi ya kukabiliana na tatizo la mitaa ya mabanda katika nchi hii. Je, Waziri ana mipango gani ya kuhusisha Wizara mbalimbali, hasa Wizara ya Fedha, ili atenge pesa za kuboresha mitaa ya mabanda? Zaidi ya robo tatu ya watu wa Nairobi wanaishi katika mitaa ya mabanda.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is exactly what I said in my earlier answer. I said that there is a programme between the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Agriculture, to ensure that there is economic growth so that we can deal with the problem of slum dwellers.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister has confirmed that they are upgrading the slums in this City. He has also said that the Ministry has installed floodlights in the slums. Up to now, there are no floodlights in some of the slums in Eastlands that the Minister has talked about. Those lights were installed in one side of Nairobi. When will the Ministry of Local Government install floodlights in other parts of Nairobi and not only in the areas that are represented by some Ministers?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are floodlights in Mathare, Kahawa and so on. That is not one side of the City! In any case, I would like to confirm that in his own constituency, we installed lights and they are vandalised the following night! So, could I appeal to the hon. Member to help us ensure that vandalism does not take place?

Let us move on! What is it Mr. Ndolo?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I respect the Minister very much but Pangani is not in Makadara. Let him know that Pangani is in Mr. Kamanda's constituency! That is where those lights were vandalised.

That is a point of information and it is taken. One more hon. Member from Nairobi area! Mr. Raila!

Order! Order, Mr. Angwenyi! You are disorderly and, therefore, you are warned.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the interest being expressed by hon. Members on this Question. I represent the largest slum in Africa South of the Sahara. Kibera has a population of nearly one million people. The conditions of living in the slums are pathetic. We have what we call "flying toilets". Somebody relieves himself on a piece of newspaper, raps it and throws it away. The slum upgrading project the Minister is talking about is under the Ministry of Housing and not the Ministry of Local Government. The Question before us is asking what the Ministry is doing as far as lighting, sewerage systems, sanitation, water and roads are concerned. Apart from the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money being used to construct toilets, there is nothing that the City Council is doing. The question is: What programmes does the City Council, which is under the Ministry of Local Government, have to provide infrastructure like sanitation, water, sewerage and roads in the slums?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very unfortunate that I have to say the following to my brother here. When he was the Minister for Roads, Public Works and Housing, he actually influenced the removal of a lot of money from the Ministry of Local Government to the Ministry of Roads, Public Works and Housing. It is only now that we are reversing the situation, so that the Ministry of Local Government can start doing the work.

560 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006

Order! Order! I am not going to accept that kind of exchange!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead the House? The Budget comes here when it has already been prepared and our duty is just to rubber- stamp it!

Mr. Minister, do you have anything to say about that?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minister is saying that funds were removed from the Ministry of Local Government to the Ministry Roads, Public Works and Housing. But he has not answered the question that I asked!

But I cannot force a Minister to answer a question. Mr. Muite!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Minister enlighten this House on whether part of his plans to improve the quality of life for very poor Kenyans is to permit the two individuals from Armenia to build thousands of houses to assist them? Is that part of Government plans?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Armenians are not building any infrastructure in Nairobi.

No more points of order! Last question, Prof. Oniang'o! We have taken 15 minutes on that Question.

Order! Will you sit down?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to me, it does not matter under which Ministry this Question falls. The fact of the matter is that living conditions in Nairobi continue to deteriorate for many Nairobians. Could the Minister, and his colleague, promise to bring a Sessional Paper on the upgrading of the standards of living for more than 2 million Nairobians?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I have answered that question. I have said that, as Government, we are working day and night to make sure that the standard of living for Kenyans is improved.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We keep on hearing of slum upgrading projects and the so-called "mercenaries" coming to upgrade houses. We would like the Government to take this issue very seriously. We would like to see a Sessional Paper, so that all of us can contribute.

Mr. Minister, on the issue of a Sessional Paper, may I get a response? Mr. Minister, do you want to finish with the question first?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have heard what the hon. Member has said. I will liaise with my colleague, the Minister for Housing, and bring a Sessional Paper to this House.

The Minister for Housing, you had a point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a Policy Paper on housing which was passed by this House in 2004. Secondly, I would like to correct the impression being created by the media that we have some foreign investors who are upgrading the slums. The truth of the matter is that I do not have any such proposal in my Ministry. There is no investor who has come forward to make any proposal about slum upgrading. April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 561

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Capt. Nakitare, will you sit down? No more supplementary questions!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Capt. Nakitare! Have you ever been in the army? It is an order that you sit down! I Just want to respond to the Minister for Housing. I think hon. Members were referring to a Sessional Paper on slum upgrading and not the housing policy that was passed by this House.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to involve the Ministry of Local Government in the housing saga in the urban centres when we know very well that, those slums stand on individual parcels of land? The owners have title deeds! They are supposed to build proper houses for those tenants!

Was that a very important point of order? Last point of order, Prof. Anyang'-Nyong'o!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Would it be in order for us to ask the Minister to bring to this House a Ministerial Statement to fully address himself to this Question, because he has not answered it?

I think the Minister agreed to consult his counterpart in order to bring a Sessional Paper on slum upgrading. Hon. Members, that is the end of that Question. But if you are not satisfied, you can invoke Standing Order No.18 and bring a Motion of Adjournment. We cannot go on with one Question forever. Next Question by Member for Kitutu Masaba, Mr. Mwancha!

asked the Minister of State for Administration and National Security:- (a) whether he is aware that police swoops have completely failed to curb

distillation and consumption; (b) whether he is further aware that chang'aa raids are now a source of income to some unscrupulous provincial administration officials and the police; and, (c) whether he could consider assisting distillers to start alternative income- generating activities so that they can abandon chang'aa distillation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) I am not aware. (b) I am not aware. In fact, if any officer within the administration or the police force is found to engage in such malpractice, appropriate disciplinary action will be taken immediately, including dismissal from the Service. (c) The Government has created a secure and an enabling environment in which the citizens can engage themselves in legal income-generating activities. It is for us, as leaders, to direct our people to the many micro-financing institutions that are there.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when an Assistant Minister states that he is not aware that the police have failed to curb the distillation and consumption of chang'aa, you get the impression that he does not live in this country. Nevertheless, if chang'aa 562 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 distillation and consumption is still going on and that the police have not failed to curb this habit, what then is he attributing chang'aa distillation and consumption in the country to?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have put in place enough measures to ensure that

distillation does not continue. But where citizens continue to distil and sell chang'aa, they are usually arrested. But if the Member has any particular incident in mind, perhaps in his area, he should let the police know and we will take appropriate measures.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, chang'aa is not anything different from the dry gins and the rest, except that it is made in Africa. Could the Assistant Minister think of ways of improving chang'aa to the standards of the dry gins so that people can continue selling it and earning a living?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are being asked to think of ways of making

legal so that people can consume it. We have an Act that prohibits the distillation and consumption of chang'aa . But the Member can bring an amendment so that we can discuss and do the needful.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the standard of living is not only a problem in Nairobi. People in the rural areas have similar problems and have turned to chang'aa to drown their problems. In my constituency, police have killed people during chang'aa raids. Could the Assistant Minister order police officers not to involve themselves in chang'aa raids because they either drink the chang'aa themselves or confiscate and sell it themselves?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, chang'aa does not improve the lives of our people. So, I do not see why we are saying that because our people are poor, they turn to chang'aa . We cannot withdraw police officers from engaging in activities that are meant to curb consumption of

. We will continue to use them and the entire Provincial Administration until such a time that chang'aa is no longer consumed in the country.

asked the Minister for Planning and National Development:- (a) why the Ministry has kept one-third of the country's districts without District Development Officers (DDOs); and, (b) whether the Ministry could post a DDO and a Deputy DDO to each district with immediate effect to ensure smooth running of projects throughout the country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. First of all, it is not true that one-third of the country's districts are without DDOs, but only five districts. Some of the reasons why some districts have to do without these officers have to do with failure to recruit new staff. This situation has improved since then and we are attempting to make sure that each district has a DDO. The last batch of DDOs was posted in January, 2006. The five districts without the DDOs are Mombasa, Kwale, Meru Central, Baringo and Kakamega. We are planning to post the officers to those districts before the end of this financial year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the answer I have states, in part, that the Ministry has been able to recruit 100 officers who have since been posted. It further states that the Ministry has been authorised to recruit another 85 officers. I thought the Assistant Minister would admit that they have been operating without these officers and, therefore, development in the country has suffered. Could he tell us how many of the officers he posted in January have reported to their April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 563 stations?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the Member cared to listen, the Question is very direct; why the Ministry has kept one-third of the country's districts without DDOs. One-third is a precise number, and you cannot say that five districts are a third of the Kenyan districts. That is why I was correcting that impression. I am owning up that there are only five districts without the DDOs. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to answer his last question, it is true some of the officers have yet to report to their stations. As to the two DDOs that we sent to Tharaka District, in particular, one was recalled and the second one is on a poverty assessment study and I want to assure the Member that by the 1st of May, he will be at his work station.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister give a date as to when District Development Officers (DDOs) will be posted to Mombasa and Kwale? Lack of these officers has stalled the Constituencies Development Fund projects. Therefore, I want his commitment now regarding the DDO for the second capital of the country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will give that undertaking right here. We have been allowed to recruit 85 economists and we are going---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Listen, Mr. Balala!

Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! I am in charge here! But having said that, Mr. Balala, you are not being fair to the Assistant Minister. Let him finish his answer before you rise on a point of order. He had not even completed a sentence! But now I think he is reminded. Proceed, Mr. Assistant Minister!

My apologies, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You know I used to sit in the Chair. So, I had confused my roles.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had made an undertaking that before the beginning of the next financial year, we will be able to post DDOs to the remaining districts. If by 1st July, there will be no DDO in Mombasa, I will want to know it.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Mr. Balala! If it is a supplementary question, I will not allow it! What is your point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order to say that they are going to recruit DDOs now when Mombasa has not had one for the last one year? He has to assure this House that somebody will be posted there now!

Order! Last supplementary question, Mr. Kagwima!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope the Assistant Minister appreciates the fact that the DDOs are the secretaries to the District Development Committees (DDCs). In this country development depends on the work of the DDCs. The DDOs have assumed another role of being secretaries to the Constituencies Development Fund. In view of the gravity of this matter, could the Assistant Minister ensure that the people he has posted move quickly to their stations? In the same Ministry, we have

statistics officers who could also assist the DDOs. Could the Assistant Minister move quickly to ensure that the country continues to develop rather than continue having stalled projects all over?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I cannot agree more with the hon. Member. That is 564 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 why I have said that we are recruiting more DDOs. We are not only going to post them, but are also going to post them to the larger districts as Assistant District Development Officers. That will be done immediately.

I am running out of time! We have got only two minutes left for Question Time. Mr. Kimeto, could you ask your Question?

asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) whether he is aware that most farmers have not been paid for their crop by the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya, Nakuru, which owes them Kshs1.5 billion; and, (b) when these farmers will be paid.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya owes farmers Kshs911 million, and not Kshs1.5 billion, as of 31st March, 2006. (b) The Pyrethrum Board of Kenya has continued to reduce the arrears by paying farmers as it markets the stock held in its stores. Between July, 2005 and March, 2006, the Board paid pyrethrum farmers a total of Kshs300 million. I want to confirm that the Board released Kshs35 million two days ago.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister says that the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya owes farmers Kshs911 million. He has confirmed that Kshs35 million has been released. If the amount oustanding will be paid in instalments of Kshs35 million, how many years will it take to pay the farmers fully? Secondly, we have been discussing the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Report on the Anglo Leasing scandal. Why does the Assistant Minister not "Anglo Lease" to the farmers the Kshs911 million?

Mr. Minister, did you understand Mr. Kimeto's question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish I could do something for the farmers, but I do not have the capacity to do what the hon. Member is suggesting. However, I intend to pay a further Kshs450 million to the farmers between now and June this year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some farmers in this country are given preferential treatment. Why do we have coffee farmers' debts written off, yet Kshs911 million owed to pyrethrum farmers is being paid to them at the rate of Kshs35 million? The President promised that arrears owed to the pyrethrum farmers would be paid. Where is the problem? When is the Minister going to clear these areas?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I took over the Ministry, the arrears owed to farmers stood at Kshs1.8 billion. I have reduced them to Kshs900 million, and I have said that I intend to clear the balance of Kshs450 million between now and June. The main problem, as far as pyrethrum farmers are concerned, falls into two categories. One, the farmers had the stocks, but the institution had over-

borrowed and did not have the capacity to attract any money to it. But we have re-organized its operations to enable it attract some money, so as to enable it acquire new stocks and also be able to retire the farmers' arrears in their entirety.

Last question, Mr. Kimeto!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pyrethrum is a foreign exchange earner in this April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 565 country. If the Government paid pyrethrum farmers promptly, the country would earn more money in form of foreign exchange. Why can the Government not pay the farmers as soon as possible to enable them to produce more and earn this country more foreign exchange?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do agree with the hon. Member. I know that he is a pyrethrum farmer. I have already organised for his cheque.

Order! Mr. Kimeto, you are interrupting the Business of the House! Hon. Members, I will defer the last three Questions to tomorrow owing to shortage of time, because it is already past Question Time. I beg the indulgence the hon. Members and Ministers concerned.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Question No.090 is addressed to the wrong Ministry. It should be addressed to the Minister for Water and Irrigation. It came before the House on 28th October, 2005 and the Chair directed that it be re-directed to the Minister for Water and Irrigation. Could you order that it be re-directed to the relevant Ministry?

The Clerk-at-the-Table should note that. Yes, Mr. Lesrima!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to give Notice of a Motion for Adjournment---

No, Mr. Lesrima! That is not the way you should do it. You have not even gotten the Chair's permission. What you need to do is to raise the matter. Then, if you raise 15 hon. Members in support, I will consider whether it is an urgent matter of national importance, and then will give a ruling. Can you tell us what you want?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.20 to request a discussion on a matter of urgent national importance, namely, the insecurity in the country involving internal displacement of persons, closure of schools, loss of lives and disruption of economic activities occasioned by a well-co-ordinated cattle rustling menace in Samburu, parts of Baringo, Turkana, West Pokot, Trans Mara, Laikipia, Marsabit and Moyale Districts. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Do you have the requisite number?

Very well! I have considered the matter raised by Mr. Lesrima. The matter is, indeed, of urgent national importance. I will, therefore, allow the hon. Member to move the Motion. I will give the Motion two and half hours, from 4.00 p.m. today.

Mr. Poghisio, there was an issue you wanted to raise. Could you proceed?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of Order to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister of State, Office of the President, responsible for Internal Security. On Saturday, 15th April, 2006, at a place in Trans Nzoia District, near the West Pokot/Trans Nzoia border, a group of bandits attacked Pokot herders, killed one of them and drove away 73 head of cattle across the border to the Ugandan side. I would like the Minister, while responding, to consider the following points:- Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, the frequent bombardment from the Ugandan side, suspected to be carried out by the Uganda People's Defence Forces (UPDF) living just across the Suam River, on the people living in the Kanyarkwat area and those living around Kanyarkwat swamps. Second, why these uniformed military personnel from another country are allowed to cross the border into this country, create havoc and kill Kenyans without there being any armed response from the Kenyan side. There was no armed response from the Kenyan side. Even up to now, I do not think there has been any diplomatic response from the Kenyan side to demand the return of the cows that were taken away or to demand that the persons who killed the Kenyan herder are brought to book. Third, why we have allowed three military installations to be put up just a few metres from the border line on the Ugandan side. These are the people who invade us all the time. Why has this been allowed when we have good diplomatic relations with Uganda? Why should we also not have a Kenyan military contingent on our side of the border line to counter such incursions? Finally, I would like to know whether it is important for the Government that one herder is killed by a foreign army and there is no comment from the relevant Ministry up to this point. In April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 567 fact, it is as though nothing happened. The invaders were all in military uniform. One of the herders who was wounded was shot several times.

That should be enough, Mr. Poghisio!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to issue a Ministerial Statement, indicating how these foreign forces incursions into our country will be stopped and how the security of the people living on our border side with Uganda will be guaranteed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we undertake to issue the Ministerial Statement next Wednesday.

Very well!

Hon. Members, I have a short Communication from the Chair regarding postponement of the Workshop on the Sexual Offences Bill. As you are aware, the Committee on Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs had organised a workshop for this Friday, 21st April, 2006 at the Safari Park Hotel to sensitise hon. Members on the Sexual Offenses Bill. As you are also aware, His Excellency the President has declared Friday, 21st April, 2006 a national holiday. The workshop has, therefore, been deferred to Monday, 24th April, 2006, at the same venue, commencing at 8.30 a.m. I take this opportunity to appeal to all hon. Members to attend and participate in this important workshop. Copies of the Bill will be made available at the workshop. Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs on the Deliberations of the Nomination to the Kenya Anti-Corruption Advisory Board laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, 30th March, 2006. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, copies of the Report have been available in 568 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 Room No.8. I am sure that hon. Members have picked up copies and read the Report. The nominations arose, first, from the resignation of the former Chairman, Mr. Ahmednassir, who was the nominee of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK); and the resignation of Mrs. Fatuma Sichale, who had been nominated by FIDA. Hon. Members will recollect that when Parliament enacted the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act, the rationale behind the provision was that, as the country has recently witnessed, by and large, corruption is perpetrated by the Executive. It was, therefore, found necessary to ensure that the role of the Executive in constituting the Advisory Board, or recruiting the Director of the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission (KACC) and the Deputy Directors, was kept to a minimum, so that autonomy is secured for the Advisory Board. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the statute eventually enumerated the various bodies which were given the legal mandate to nominate members to the Advisory Board. The law says that each of the institutions which are mandated to nominate people to the Advisory Board will bring two names to Parliament through the Minister, and Parliament will consider the names through the relevant Committee, in this case, the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs. The Committee can reject both names or accept one and reject the other one and then bring the report to Parliament. The role of Parliament is very sacred when vetting these nominations. Recently, the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs had the privilege of travelling to the United States of American to study first hand, how the Senate in that country goes about confirmations. We were privileged, indeed, because we witnessed on several days the confirmation hearings regarding Mr. Justice Harries, who is now the new Chief Justice of the United States. We also studied first hand, the manner in which the State of New York Senate goes about confirming appointments to key public sector appointments. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs was much enriched by those experiences. So, when we were considering these nominations by FIDA and the Law Society of Kenya, I am happy to report that the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs operated on absolutely non-partisan basis and we are interested in looking at the merits of the proposed nominees. We were guided by the need to have men and women of integrity, outstanding ability and proven track-record constituting the Advisory Board because the Advisory Board of the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission is the highest policy body that sets the policy for the Director. It is the body that actually recruits the Director and the Deputy Directors. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a matter of regret that the Commission, even today, is operating without a Deputy Director of Finance, in spite of the fact that in the particular case of the Deputy Director in charge of Finance, the Committee and this House vetted and approved the appointment of Dr. Rotich to be the Deputy Director of Finance. The Act says that once this House has vetted and confirmed the appointment, the President shall appoint that individual. That is the phrase used. In spite of a resolution of this House calling on the President to perform his ceremonial function of appointing and gazetting the appointment of Dr. Rotich, he has failed to do so with the consequence that, that position remains vacant even today. It cannot be right for an important body like the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission to continue operating without a Deputy Director in charge of Finance. This House is now being called upon to adopt the Report of the Committee in filing in the two vacant positions in the Advisory Board, namely, the position of the Law Society of Kenya and that of FIDA. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having looked at the nominees by the Law Society of Kenya and FIDA and having very carefully considered the very heavy responsibilities placed on the shoulders of the members of the Advisory Board, the Committee felt unable to recommend to this House the nominations by FIDA by purely on the basis of the track-record of the two nominees who were April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 569 forwarded by that organisation. One is looking for somebody with an outstanding track-record and curriculum vitae and none of the two nominees by FIDA met that criteria in the unanimous opinion of the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs. We are recommending to this House that the two nominees from FIDA be declined and that FIDA be asked to bring in fresh nominees who meet the criteria. In the case of the Law Society of Kenya, the Committee again unanimously thought and was of the opinion that Mr. Eric Okongo Mogeni actually met the high standards which are envisaged in the Act. The Committee is, with respect, asking the House, if it agrees with the Report of the Committee, to accept the nomination of Mr. Eric Okongo Mogeni, as the new member of the Advisory Board to the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission, so that he can fill the position which was left vacant by Mr. Ahmednassir. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the House will recollect that, in fact, the Chairman of the Advisory Board, who was also the former Chairman of the Law Society of Kenya, resigned his position on principle failing the appointment of Dr. Rotich as the Deputy Director of Finance. He felt that he could not continue chairing the Board. We, as a Committee, have compiled a report that will guide this House in vetting appointments in future. The report will be brought to the House. My plea is that when this House is called upon to vet or approve an important public sector appointment, we should endeavour to set up a criteria, act on non-partisan basis and look at the merits, the experience and the ability of the individual irrespective of their ethnic background. With those few remarks, I beg to move the Motion.

Who is seconding the Motion? Do you have a Seconder? Mr. Muturi, will you second the Motion?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the Motion. Even though I am not an hon. Member of that Committee, I am quite alive to the fact that the Committee on the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs, being the committee which is concerned with the subject of receiving nominations from the various bodies, in this case, the Law Society of Kenya and FIDA, is competent. Indeed, after listening to the Chairman of the Committee make his presentation, it is quite clear that this House runs the risk of becoming irrelevant if, indeed, this House will approve certain decisions and at the whim of the Executive, those decisions are rubbished.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I recall the circumstances under which Mr. Mohammed Abdullahi Ahmednassir resigned his position as the Chairman of the Advisory Board. Indeed, this is a matter that exercised the minds of many of us who took active debate in making the appointments of both the Director and the four Deputy Directors to the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission. The point being made is that if the House is satisfied that they have clearly followed all the rules and procedures requiring them to make certain decisions, it behoves us to own up to the decisions of the Committee. If any of us has any reservations against any decisions which have been arrived at by the Committee, it is only fair that they make those reservations known on this very Floor. It is quite fresh in our minds that yesterday we adopted the Report of the Special Audit by the Public Accounts Committee and those who had reservations or arguments in opposition made them here, but they agreed that they might be bound by the decision of the House if it is taken 570 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 on the basis of the votes. In the particular case of the appointment, nomination or approval by this House of Dr. Julius Rotich, there was not a single voice in opposition. It was, therefore, strange for us to hear later that hon. Members of this very House, mainly those who are comfortably seated on the Executive row, coming here to argue later, belatedly, that there are serious reservations which they never even presented to the Committee. I hope that as we debate the current Report on the approval of the appointment of the person to replace Mr. Abdullahi, we will not then be simply acting in vain. I want to plead with everyone that, if you have any information regarding the suitability or otherwise of a nominee approved by the Committee, they better say it here or forever remain silent. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is good news for us as, a House, to know that the Departmental Committee for the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs has made efforts to learn from others that go through these processes. I can recall that the Chairman said that we were charting a course in some uncharted waters in the past by this House. It is gratifying to hear that the Committee has made efforts to go and learn from others who regularly make approvals of appointments into various public sector jobs in the USA and also at the state level in the State of New York. I think we should be looking forward, of course, to a time when the Committee will be laying that other Report on the Table so that we debate it also. If we will feel that there are areas that may require amendments, in light of our peculiar composition in Kenya which may not necessarily reflect the composition in the USA, then again the decision to amend or adopt in whole will be made in this House without people going to make interventions in other quarters where the House as a whole in the plenary would not have been involved. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

Hon. Members, you will not contribute to this Motion because our time is up. We will proceed with the Motion for Adjournment later. At this juncture, I am going to call upon the Leader of Government Business to move the Motion. We will pick up from where we have left on the adoption of the Motion of the Departmental Committee for the Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn to allow debate under Standing Order No. 20. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Monday, I was in Busia---

You only open the Floor for him to move the Motion.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn to allow debate under Standing Order No. 20. With those few remarks, I beg to move.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 571 House do now adjourn to allow debate under Standing Order No.20 in order to discuss a pertinent matter of national importance concerning insecurity in the country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that we are in mourning, but a situation of great sadness exists in our nation. We have lost senior civil servants before and we lost our colleagues recently. The issue is so fierce that we have internally displaced persons. Life has been disrupted and schools have been closed. Our people have abandoned farming activities for fear of an imminent attack. They have been made refugees in their own country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to talk about the causes of insecurity in the country very briefly. This is mainly ethnic hatred, mistrust and a century of marginalization, particularly in those parts of Kenya where the conflict exists. We also have the problem of porous borders where there is movement of people with illegal small arms. I am sure we can deal with this issue if we are determined to work together. First, we need a leadership that brings the people together, particularly at the district and provincial levels. We also need the Government to talk with one voice, because sometimes we feel that there is a Government at the district level that speaks a different language and a Government in Nairobi which speaks a different language. We need compassionate administrators who can act very quickly by implementing rapid intervention measures when incidents take place. We need people to participate in bringing up solutions to insecurity. We need people to participate in bringing solutions to insecurity in Northern Kenya. Sometimes, we have many people conducting raids. In my constituency, we have been raided 16 times in two weeks. You wonder where the intelligence officers are. What do they do? Can we re- define their roles? We also need to support the peace committees. The Government alone cannot deal with security issues. We need peace committees to be facilitated, so that they operate in districts. I know that disarmament of people is taking place selectively. I alluded to that yesterday. There is a situation where some people are disarmed in some districts and others are not. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am also aware that there is an arrangement of Kenya Police Reserves (KPR). But, again, we know that they are not properly trained. They are not given any uniforms or allowances. Those are some of the issues that need to be addressed. We also need to deal with the question of development. Without peace, there will be no development. I can also say that, without development, there will never be peace! We need to open up the infrastructure. We need to have education in all forms; formal and informal. So many youths in the affected areas do not attend school. We need to diversify the economy, so that we do not deal with cattle only. We need to add value to livestock, so that we can have hides and skins factories. There are opportunities for medicinal plants, honey refineries and mining. Development will be the only solution to some of the problems we have in those areas. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to have good neighbourliness. Some boundaries between districts and countries bordering us are artificial. We should not pretend that we are not related to our immediate neighbours along the borders of our country. We need to engage them at grassroot and peace committee levels. We need Members of Parliament from different neighbouring countries like Ethiopia, Sudan and Uganda to continuously engage themselves in the process of peace making. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I talked about infrastructure. Areas of conflict in Kenya, particularly in the pastoralist areas, are usually endowed with a lot of grass. Usually, there is no water, roads for patrol and security, schools or centres. It is extremely urgent that we attend to those issues. Finally, the ultimate responsibility lies with the Government. As hon. Members from pastoral areas, we will support the Government. We are not very keen to see guns. In my constituency, we acquired guns to protect ourselves. We never acquired guns in 1996 for cattle rustling. We were told by the new Government that security was assured. We believed the 572 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 Government. We have faith in God and trust in the Government. But we feel let down! As soon as we voluntarily returned the guns, we were attacked immediately! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government acted very firmly---

Order, hon. Members! The consultations are getting louder and they are actually drowning the contribution by the hon. Member! Mr. Lesrima, please, proceed!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying that the ultimate responsibility of the Government is to protect lives, with the co-operation of all leaders. Many Kenyans who have nothing to do with cattle rustling or insecurity in the North have lost their lives. Some Members of this House and even Assistant Ministers have lost their lives. I watched the Provincial Commissioner, Mr. Osare, in his hospital bed. He was wondering what that was all about. I wish him quick recovery. He was saying that in the North, they all look alike. Truly, we look alike, but at the same time, we are also different. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to move.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. A few of my colleagues were with me on Monday---

Order! Hon. Members, let me remind you that Standing Orders provide that no hon. Member speaking on such a matter shall do so for more that ten minutes. The time allowed for contribution by each hon. Member is ten minutes. If hon. Members feel that, that should stay, it is fine. But if you want to change that, you can do so. It really has to come from you. But it is for me to remind you of what is provided for in the Standing Orders! Maybe, the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, who is contributing now, can do that! Mr. Awori, please, proceed!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was just saying that, at the burial of one Kenyan hero, our hearts were pierced by the cries of the widow. The widow appealed to Kenyans and asked: Why, after 40 years of Independence, blood is still being spilt in Kenya, in search of peace. She asked: "Why? When shall we have peace in this country?" We were all very moved, indeed! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to look at the genesis of what is bringing insecurity in this country, particularly in areas in upper Eastern and North Eastern. It is not peculiar to those place. It is widespread in most areas in Kenya. One of the biggest problems that we still have in Kenya is ethnic, tribal and clan hatred. Those things are in people's minds. Those are not things that the Government can help to remove from the minds of the people. It is upon ourselves to try and fight against ethnic, tribal and clan hatred. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other cause is pursuance of individual and personal agendas. The other is unbridled ambition by some people to dominate others. The ordinary people have no problems with each other. It is we as leaders who are supposed to give them guidance on how to solve these problems. This problem has come about due to the leaders April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 573 who try to make themselves kingpins instead of working together with their colleagues. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to focus our energies on the national interests of our country. We should do this by distributing resources equally to all parts of the country. We should share whatever little cake with each other. We know that in upper Eastern and North Eastern provinces one of the biggest problems has been scarcity of grazing lands, water, lack of infrastructure and, therefore, a few people want to take that for themselves. It is important that we learn to share what we have got. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are other cultural activities that we used to engage in very many years back. You cannot stop progress and if you have to progress, then you must discard such cultural activities that create insecurity. We need as a Government to have administrators that are impartial and those that will not take sides between leaders but who will implement the Government policies so that everybody has their share. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a Government, we are determined now to try and improve the infrastructure in the country. I think we must give particular attention to the huge area of upper Eastern and North Eastern provinces. Let us open it up so that people there do not depend on the little resources of livestock alone. Let us open up the roads and take water there so that people there can engage in an honest way of living like agriculture. Through this way, everybody there will get their share of the national cake. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as of now, I know that the Government has put in place security forces in all areas where there have been arguments about the resources that we have got. Let us try and encourage those administrators by giving them hope through telling them that what they are doing is the correct thing. Let us ask the Ministry in the Office President in charge of Special Projects to continue to supply famine relief to those areas. Let us encourage it to supply hay for the livestock. Let us encourage them to take water bowsers so that they have got enough water which will then stop the warring factions from fighting over the meagre resources. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, all we can do is to have goodwill and love one another and to remember the 14 Kenyans who died looking for peace. I think it is a tragedy that even before we have buried all of them, there are already skirmishes in those areas. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to take this opportunity to thank hon. Lesrima for bringing this very important Motion. This is a time for all of us to really talk, discuss and find solutions with regard to the security of our people and their property. I would like to support this Motion most objectively and positively for the sake of our people. First of all, I would like the Government from today to tell the country what its national security strategy is. It should further tell us whether this national security strategy can protect and safeguard all the citizens and their property from all corners of our Republic. We want to know this strategy because if it is there, we would have responded to the problem affecting upper Eastern and North Eastern Provinces, North Rift and the rest of the country. I am very happy that the Minister in charge of Internal Security and the Minister for Defence are here. Our security programme must be innovative so that we can respond to any threat. Our security forces whether the police or army must be able to respond to any threat decisively and appropriately. However, how can you do this when we have a problem of infrastructure? The other day when we went to bury the late hon. Maj. Abdullahi in Isiolo, the airstrip there was unserviceable. We had to be diverted to Lewa Downs. Now, if you want mobility---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of the seriousness of the matter being discussed, would it be in order to request that each hon. Member should be limited to only five minutes since very many of us want to contribute? 574 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006

Is that the consensus?

Yes!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes but after me.

This is because I am already on the Floor. After my ten minutes, my colleagues can contribute for five minutes. I think it is consensus that after I have spoken then my colleagues can speak for five minutes each.

Order! Proceed with your contribution.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that if we are really to defend and safeguard the security of this country, then our infrastructure must be taken into consideration. The Government needs to avail some money for the rehabilitation of all the airstrips because we need mobility. Similarly, the roads leading to these hot spots must be repaired so that anytime we get into a situation like this, we are able to respond to these threats quite appropriately. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have early warning system procedures but it seems the Government is not looking into this issue through misinformation. If an insecurity problem has occurred in a place like Marsabit, the District Security Committee should be in a position to immediately report to the next level which is the Provincial Security Committee for the same to be passed to Nairobi for a response team to be organised appropriately. However, misinformation from the District Security Committee is what is actually causing majority of our livestock to be stolen and this is not proper. We want information to be disseminated fast to the appropriate arm of the Government, so that the Government can respond appropriately. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, do we have the capacity to protect our people? I think we have the capacity as a country to take care of our people. Have we put this capacity into place? I do not think so because when you look at what has happened in Marsabit District, for example, we hear of militia coming from Ethiopia. These militia steal many animals and up to date, the Government has not issued a protest note to the Ethiopian people to return those animals. The Government has not even followed those militia in hot pursuit to recover the animals. What is the problem yet we have the capacity? We have the armed forces who can be charged with the responsibility of protecting our people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, another critical point is the issue of inter-clan or ethnic conflicts. We, as leaders, are actually propagating hatred among our people. We should start preaching peace and unity for this country. This morning, we met as pastoralists and we decided to send a message across to our people, that it is time peace prevailed wherever we live. So, if the Government, especially the Provincial Administration will do their work well, definitely, this country will be at peace. However, I do not think the issue of performance contracts, which was launched the other day is suitable for these officers. What is the role of these performance contracts if we are losing lives and property? We want officers who sign those contracts to do their work to the letter. They should be able to promote peace, stability and progress. If we do not get that, those officers should simply be sacked. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to propose the following:- One, that from today, we want to know if we have enough police officers to police our April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 575 country. If we do not, the Government must employ the many unemployed youth in this country so that we can boost security personnel in this country. Two, all the roads and airstrips in these hot spots should be brought to serviceability so to that we are able to respond appropriately. We want the Government to come up with a strategy to show how they will defend this country from attacks. This is the august House, which passes laws and funds for the defence of this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I want to thank Mr. Lesrima for moving this very important Motion so that we discuss the demerits of cattle rustling, general insecurity and the way forward. I would like to pay tribute to our gallant colleagues who perished in Marsabit District while pursuing peace, which has proved to be elusive. I remember the late Aden said in many fora that we cannot have peace without first having development. So, the formula is development, then peace will be forthcoming. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to give this House the real situation with regard to this matter, with reference to my constituency. In the last one year, 14 people were slashed by some morans. They were cut with pangas . There is somebody's hand in one of the mortuaries in Mararal District. Four of these people are actually in the mortuary, they have not been buried to date. We have suffered over eight raids. We have lost over 1,000 cattle and 1,500 goats. As recently as yesterday, one senior chief was arrested and taken to a different district by some security officers. I am told he was an army officer. This fuels tension. We want such situations where, for example, if a chief has a problem, he should be taken to his own district, like in this case Baringo District, so that he or she can face justice if he or she has been promoting cattle rustling. I condemn the issue of insecurity in the North Eastern Province where I used to serve as an officer of the previous Government. While on duty then, I was attacked nine times. At one time I was actually injured and flown to Forces Memorial Hospital. I suffered serving the Government and I have not even been compensated. So, you can imagine the magnitude of the problem if somebody like me has actually suffered due to cattle rustling.

His time is up!

Order, hon. Members! Mr. Kamama, you have not concluded your five minutes. Please, finalise your contribution.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister in charge of Internal Security for establishing the first police station in my constituency since Independence. Secondly, he has been able to deploy security officers in all hot spots. We want the Government to send rapid deployment units to those hot spots. When I talk of hot spots, I am referring to Samburu, Baringo East and parts of Suguta Valley. This is a valley which is known for being a hideout and is notorious for bandits. This is where we lost the former Provincial Commissioner for Rift Valley and many other people. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in condemning this vice. I would like us to come up with a strategy. We have deployed officers, but they have not solved this problem in totality. However, they have reduced this menace substantially. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the major causes of insecurity is revenge. Government officers must use previous statistics and situations to project what will happen in future. Whenever there is an attack, you can predict with precision that a revenge mission will be there. When we have such a problem, security officers are supposed to be there. 576 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is time we stopped dealing with the symptoms and addressed the real causes of this problem. I do not agree with the hon. Member who has just spoken that the main cause is revenge. That is one of the symptoms. The major cause of this problem is the extreme poverty of the people living in this area as a result of which there is competition for the limited resources that are available. It is because of many years of neglect of this particular region. In the olden days when we were in school, we used to draw a straight line running from Turkana District on the Ugandan border right through to Lamu District. We just used to refer to this area as the Northern Frontier District (NFD). That was not, as far as the colonialists were concerned, part of Kenya. The successive governments since that time have perpetuated that under- development. There has been very little investment in development. Last year we visited the region and we launched the marshal plan for the entire region. Unfortunately, very little has been done since that time. So, poverty is one major cause because there is no infrastructure. These people cannot even access markets for their livestock. As a result of this, the cycle of poverty continues. The other issue is because the northern parts of Kenya and the southern parts of Ethiopia are neglected. That whole section is equal to the entire Kenya. There is very little activity going on in as far as development is concerned. Therefore, there are bandits roaming all over the place. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saddened when I saw an Ethiopian Government representative on the television saying that it was some Oromo Liberation Front (OLF) elements who were roaming around and causing havoc in this part of the country. The Ethiopian Government is unable to control bandits in its country. What the Kenyan Government should tell the Ethiopian Government is, if it is not capable of curbing insecurity in that region, then we should go to the United Nations. We should ask for a UN peace keeping force in this region, so that peace can be restored. It is clear that the Ethiopian Government has completely given up. We have seen the representative of its Government saying that it is OLF causing insecurity. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, Ethiopia has no right to allow its own bandits to come into Kenya, cause havoc and kill our people with impunity. If this insecurity is allowed to prevail we will have no country left. Therefore, our own Government must carry out proper negotiations with the Ethiopian Government, and send out a very clear and strong statement. We should not allow this to happen. I know that this cannot happen in other countries where Governments care for the lives of their people. It only happens here, because there is an attitude that it is in the former Northern Frontier District (NFD). We must say that if the Government is not capable of restoring peace, then it has no business being in power. It should resign. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that very many hon. Members want to contribute to this Motion. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving this opportunity to contribute to today's important Motion. I think that the death of our brothers in Marsabit almost ten days ago should be a wake up call for Kenyans to appreciate the need for us to extend development to the norther part of our country, which is largely arid, semi-arid and even a desert. When the Norwegian Nobel Committee gave me the laureate prize they clearly wanted to send a message to the world that managing resources, and having good governance, is very central to peace. I am very happy that Kenyans and this House have been very supportive of me and what that prize means. Managing well resources means making sure that there is equity. If there is no equity in a country, you will continue to have a small number of people having a lot of resources and a large number having very little. When there is no equity in a country, there will be no peace no matter how much we talk about insecurity. Our people in the northern part of this country are fighting over April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 577 grazing land. They need water and all those things that His Excellency the Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, and many hon. Members, talked about. We really need to act. Kenyans have a habit of talking a lot and doing very little. I have a feeling that we may talk very passionately, especially now that we have lost our 14 brothers. Despite the killings in the north, we shall continue to sing songs in this House. I wish that we could spend the next few years trying to implement what we know clearly is needed. We know that our people need water. When we went to Marsabit District, I saw large amounts of rain water going to waste. Along with it, went the little fertile soil in that part of the country. Why are we not harvesting rain water? We ought to be there tomorrow harvesting rain water, and giving our people water so that they do not fight over it. I would like to ask the Minister for Lands to consider zoning this country, so that some areas can only be used for grazing, and others for agriculture and other activities such as national parks. This is because we really need to teach our people that time has gone when we could have large numbers of animals grazing on land that was gradually desertifying, and becoming part of the Chalbi Desert. We need to cater for a certain number of animals. The Government should use resources to support farmers to earn their livelihood from the few animals that they should keep. I think leaders from these areas should invest in promoting peace. I want to congratulate them for the unity they have demonstrated and the desire to support our people in the north. We have to teach our people to learn not to retaliate. Are there no traditional ways and means of reconciliation, so that we do not have endless revenge? When you hear a person has been killed, there has to be revenge. Are there no traditional ways of dealing with conflict? I wish we could use some of our traditional methods of reconciliation, so that we do not have to kill our neighbours, because some of us have been killed, or our animals have been stolen. I do not have to repeat what has already been said in terms of what the Government needs to do. We are in the Government; in fact, we are the Government. There is absolutely no reason why we cannot go to this part of our country, and do what should be done. We should take resources to our people and promote equity, so as to give peace a chance. With those few words, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I would like to thank hon. Lesirma for bringing this Motion to the House. It is very relevant. It is proper to bring this Motion here now because of the insecurity that is spreading all over northern Kenya and in areas like Laikipia and Samburu Districts. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, pastoralists living in arid areas have been discriminated against for the last 100 years by the colonial government and the successive African Governments. They have been discriminated against, marginalised and completely forgotten. If you look at how resources are shared to these areas, you will see that they are marginalised. Look at the budgetary allocation for water resources, lack of which is the cause of problems in all arid areas, for these areas and you will see that they marginalised. In the last financial year some of the districts in this country were allocated Kshs500 million. These were districts that have water and are arable. On the other hand, some districts in the arid areas were allocated Kshs5 million. Just compare this to see how unfair and discriminatory the allocation of resources is. If you look at infrastructure, the story is the same. In these areas there are no roads. It is only cattle and camel tracks that exist, and nothing else. Even the Moyale-Isiolo Road, that would save the lives of a lot of people, is not being taken care of. There are many other roads, which I do not have to mention. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the rate of illiteracy in those areas is very high and so is the poverty index. In these pastoralist areas, over 60 per cent of the people live below poverty line because they have been neglected. For example, we have been told that livestock has been 578 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 stolen in Moyale, and people have been abducted in Marsabit and taken across the border into Ethiopia. We have not been told what has happened to that livestock or to our people who have been abducted. What is the Government doing to protect the lives of our people and their property? It is the responsibility of the Government to protect the lives and property of her citizens. In fact, it is the duty of the Government to protect the lives of the people of this country. We have been told that the Army has not been deployed there because the attack was initiated by the homeguards. Whether they were attacked by homeguards, militia or an organised army, the issue is that our people have been abducted and their livestock has been stolen. What is the Government doing? I hope the Minister of State for Administration and National Security will tell us what has happened with our livestock. Why did the Army or the police not pursue these militia who have visited untold suffering to our people?

They have done that in Uganda and Ethiopia. Why is the Kenya Government not keen to use the Army to protect our people from external aggression? We are wondering what the people across the border feel about the Government. Those citizens in Marsabit and Moyale feel that they do not have a Government. They say they are not being protected. That is true. The Government must take action otherwise the people will start complaining that they are not being protected. That is the worst thing for any citizen to believe. The awareness of the people of this country is so high now. They know what is happening. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, recently, the Military conducted a recruitment exercise throughout the country. Why did they not recruit more people from those borders? These are people who know the terrain and they can die for their own people. We do not want people who when they cross a lagga with a small Land Rover, they say: " Gari limeharibika, turudi !" I really think we should develop some of these areas because that is the only way we can bring these people together. Before I conclude, I want to say that the insecurity in North Eastern Province and all other areas could spread to the other parts of the country.

Order, Mr. ole Ntimama! Your time is up!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to contribute on this very important Motion. I want to take this opportunity to thank Mr. Lesrima for bringing this Motion to the House. I think there is a lot of hypocrisy in this House. There is very little that we do; we pay a lot of lip service and very little action.

I wanted to hear from Mr. Raila when he stood up and said that they had a very big marshal plan for the northern Kenya. I wanted to hear from him how much money in the last Budget, he insisted was to be allocated to this area. I want to know how much money in that Budget was allocated to North Horr, Saku, Laisamis and Moyale constituencies.

That is the work of the Ministry of Finance!

Order!

April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 579

Order, Mr. Khamasi!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am being disturbed by Mr. Angwenyi here because he wants me to say what he wants to say.

Order, Mr. Khamasi!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very disturbed because there is too much lip service. This is not the first time a Motion of Adjournment of this nature is coming to this House. We have had them before and very little has been done to rectify the situation. We are talking about poverty in this area. What have we done? Where have we taken our resources? I think we in this House stand blamed wholesale without exception. Let us not pretend to be angels here. We stand blamed because we have left those parts of our country completely neglected. I thought that when NARC took power, there was going to be some change. Unfortunately, nothing has happened. We only changed the name and the situation continues as it was. Let us be honest here and say that this House can rise one day when the current Minister for Finance brings his Budget. We want to see the allocation for water. We want to see where he will put his money. One can guess even before he sees that Budget. We know where that money is going to be.

You can also guess where the allocation for roads is going to be even when you are sitting on this bench. We want, as a House, to unite and say: "Enough is enough!" If five hon. Members can die because they are seeking peace, it is not a small matter. It is a matter that should make us change in our way of doing things. We must work in unison and see that we change. I do not think that if no money is brought to Shinyalu for water we would all perish. If you do not take any money to Kirinyaga they are all not going to perish. We can say that for a number of years, the places that are endowed with natural water which God has given us, we can decide that all the money that goes to these areas to go to some other areas so that we can help our brothers.

Order, hon. Members! His time is not yet up!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I believe hon. Members coming from these areas must continue to sit together and play their game in unison. There is no need for differences. Their problems are similar in nature. It is high time all hon. Members from the North Eastern Province sat together and come up with ideas. They should then convince us as a House because it is us who vote for the money. It is us who appropriate the money. It is for them to come to us and say: "Our brothers, we are suffering!" There is no need for them to continue to be neglected. They are Kenyans! They have rights. It should not appear as if they are begging anybody. They are citizens of this country and it is high time this Government woke up and really played the act. We do not want empty words with nothing happening on the ground. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me take this chance to thank you---

580 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006

Let us be quiet. Since we are giving five minutes for each hon. Member to speak, everyone will have a chance.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to support this Motion. I am here to support the improvement of the security situation in our country, especially in the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs). We all know that 80 per cent of our country falls under the ASAL region. Many lives and properties have been lost due to insecurity in those regions. Since Independence, very little has been done to correct the situation. Those of us who come from those regions know the cause of the problem. It is, unfortunate, that nobody takes what we say seriously. The problem with the region is not something I can comprehend. I do not have the words to describe it. Our region looks the same way God created it. The roads we have are the same ones which were constructed by the Colonial Government. The colonialists asked young men to construct roads and donate camels to them so that they could travel to where they wanted to go. Those are the roads still in use. Our Government just numbered them. For instance, we have C31 and C8 among others. Nothing more has been done. There are no bridges built on the roads. All our Government did was to number the roads. If we want to improve the security situation, first, the Government must improve the infrastructure. There must be roads from Nairobi to Marsabit, Samburu, Laikipia, Pokot and to all other remote areas. If we did that, our security officers would be able to move fast and recover stolen animals. Secondly, the Government should also provide water to people in those regions. We are not asking for piped water like some of you would require. We want water that we can share with our elephants, camels and cows. We would like to have water that we can share with our animals. Therefore, construction of dams would do. My people are suffering because of lack of resources. Once we have such facilities, our people would stop fighting. Whenever water is found anywhere in the region, people tend to fight over it. We should invest in provision of water. Thirdly, we need to invest in security. We need to protect our international borders. We need to employ young men and women to guard the borders of this country. It is, unfortunate, that during the recruitment of police officers, we only have three people picked from Garissa, four from Narok and five from Baringo. I do not know how many people are recruited from other places. The best thing we can do to take care of insecurity is to employ more security personnel, especially people from the affected areas, and post them to work along the borders. Those people would be in a better position to follow up stolen livestock and recover it. We should provide them with radios, vehicles and all other telecommunication gadgets they require so that stolen animals can be recovered easily.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. A lot has been said about the causes of conflict in the regions we are discussing and some solutions have also been suggested in this House. However, I think the most important thing that should be addressed in the region affected is development. When we develop a region, it gets a multiplier effect. What has been said about the infrastructure and safety of livestock among other things, does not only benefit the people living in the area. It also benefits the economy of this country. Nearly three quarters of our land in this country falls under the ASAL. Almost 75 per cent of our wildlife in this country is found in the ASAL, yet those are the most underdeveloped regions. When you solve the problems in the ASAL areas, you will have solved the problems of cattle rustling and fighting for resources like water. The main problem in the areas is underdevelopment. That should be addressed. Secondly, in those areas, there is endemic poverty and under-employment. It has already been said that the only gainful employment we get is with the security forces. However, the recruitment qualifications keep on going up. Recently, the Police Department was recruiting people April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 581 who had attained a minimum grade of D+. Today, the department is asking for people who have attained at least a minimum of C-. Unfortunately, our people cannot attain that grade. Those are some of the issues that should be addressed. We need employment. As part of the affirmative action, more people from our region should be employed, even if it will mean lowering of the qualification grades. I would like to touch on some of the solutions to insecurity. One of the reasons why people arm themselves to fight other communities is due to lack of security personnel. At least, let us admit that the police officers there are few. Yesterday, on one of our local television channels, we saw a man saying that he lives 300 kilometres away from where police officers can be found. For him to reach the security personnel, he would have to walk to another constituency. Most likely, the police officers he finds may not be armed and maybe, they have no means of transport. Of late, the Government has really tried to take care of transport by providing a few vehicles. However, those are not enough. We would like this House to vote for more money so that we can have adequate equipment. The other issue is that of capacity building. We do not want a District Officer to tell us how security matters should be handled. We would like the people themselves to identify their opinion leaders. We would like to build on the institutions that are there. There are people who are prominent and can solve those issues, including hon. Members and councillors. This also includes police officers and other people who handle security matters. Institutions should be started and given the capacity in terms of training. We must be given funds to carry out training sessions. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other thing which is very important is the state of our institutions like the Armed Forces. Let us be very frank. I do not know how many barracks for the Kenya Army are in Nairobi? Why should these barracks be in Nairobi? They should be taken to Turkana, Wajir, Kisumu and other areas.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion. As has been stated by everybody, we must all acknowledge that these are regions that have been neglected for a very long time. It is important for us to acknowledge that the reason for insecurity in these areas is not cattle rustling or inter-clan clashes. The main reason is poverty. The constant fighting in these areas is all about the scarce resources in the areas. Unless this matter is urgently addressed by this country, we cannot expect to find a proper and lasting solution to this particular problem. I have stated before that there comes a time for us to put aside partisan interests and deal with issues that affect the people of this nation. I agree with what hon. Khamasi said that for far too long we have been paying lip service to the people of this country. One fears that in a few weeks time this issue will be long forgotten and new agendas brought to the fore until such a time another tragedy will occur. I think that this time there is need for action. There is need for this House to pool together and ensure that through the budgetary process we allocate adequate funds to develop these regions at par with other regions in this country. We must, specifically, as a House, budget in a manner of affirmative action and knowing that we are purposely allocating a certain percentage of our national revenue to the affected regions. We need to ensure that over, say a period of five years, we can adequately say that the marginalised areas have been able to catch up. With regard to security, we cannot treat the state of insecurity in these areas as we would do in our urban areas which are more populated. We are talking about vast areas here and attacks carried out by heavily armed militia groups with RPGs and heavy machine guns. What can six 582 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 policemen armed only with G3s do except run away? We need to bolster the security in these regions and adequately equip our Armed Forces. Let us move our Armed Forces from Nairobi where they do nothing to regions where they are required to protect the citizens of this country as opposed to earning salaries and doing nothing in their barracks. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us purposely as a House, regardless of our political parties' interests sacrifice and say: "For the people living in marginalised areas of this country, we are going to work together as a House to ensure that within five years, these areas will be developed to par with other regions of this country." We need to set targets and these people will begin to feel that they are part of this country and not strangers in their own nation because that is the way it is today. Let us not accuse one another. We also need to work together. The leaders from the marginalised areas need to set aside their differences and speak with one voice. The Government must forget political interests and say that it is ready to sit with leaders and commit Government resources not for political gain, but for the security and betterment of the lives of the people in these marginalised areas. Let us see these actions being reflected in the forthcoming Budget. We need as a House to agree that this Budget will not pass unless specific resources are set aside for the purpose of alleviating problems faced in these regions. We all have needs, but some of us can wait because there are needs that are greater and that need to be fulfilled if at all we intend this country to remain united. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first I wish to thank the Mover of this Motion. It is only a week ago when we lost our beloved colleagues who were on a mission to restore peace amongst our people. If the successive Governments had addressed the needs of the people in the northern parts of this country, we would not have lost the lives of our colleagues. However, we lost those lives because this Parliament has not played its role in this country. This Parliament is capable of amending the law so that it scrutinises our Budget to ensure that adequate resources are devoted to the marginalised people in this country. If this Parliament, for example, demanded from the Minister for Finance that he must allocate between Kshs3 billion and Kshs4 billion for road construction in the northern part of the country, we would be able to do, at least, 400 kilometres of all-weather roads. I am sure, if we do that every year, after five years, like the Leader of official Opposition said, we will have done about 2,000 kilometres to 3,000 kilometres of all-weather roads in that area. The budget for water in this country is about Kshs5 billion and if this Parliament demanded that 60 per cent of that money be taken to the northern part of this country, we will be able to provide the people in the north with adequate water resources and that would stop them from fighting over water resources. However, this Parliament only serves as a rubberstamp. We know it although we do not want to admit it. The Budget is prepared elsewhere and then brought before us. Instead of us scrutinising it, we just pass it because the time to pass it has come either through Guillotine or otherwise. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I happened to visit Egypt with a Departmental Committee of the House. Egypt is an arid and dry country. We saw the way Egyptians have developed their water resources and they are prepared to come and assist us. It is only that we have not allowed them to come over and assist us in developing our water resources in the northern parts of this country simply because there are no kickbacks with them. If we use the technology developed in Egypt or the United Arab Emirates, we will be able to address the problems facing our people in the north of this country. Insecurity is not restricted only in the north. There is insecurity in Trans Mara also. Why do April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 583 we have cattle rustling in Trans Mara and yet there is water and a vast land there. Why the insecurity in this region? It is because the Government has not stamped down its foot. Perhaps, we should add some venom in Mr. Michuki so that he has enough chuki to deal with these people. We want Mr. Michuki to have enough chuki to deal with these people who are killing themselves. Why can we not take a census of animals in those areas? We can carry out a census of those animals, so that we know, for example, those that belong to the Samburu, the Pokot, Borana, Gabra and the Orma. This will enable the Government to plan for those communities and their livestock. Why can we not provide livestock extension services to those people and at the same time, control the movement of their animals, so that they are not stolen? Why can we not utilise our army at the borders to construct roads in those areas? We are paying them a salary and they are not constructing roads. The road from Embu to Meru was constructed by the British army. I understand they did a similar exercise in Laikipia. Why can we not use our own people who I believe are educated? We can give them the equipment to construct roads in the north so that we can eliminate insecurity in that area. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support this Motion in the strongest terms. I want to take the earliest opportunity to thank the hon. Member who moved this Motion. This Motion could not have come at a better time. It has come at a time when we have just buried our colleagues. The tears in our eyes have not yet even dried. It is good that this Motion is coming at this time. I hope and believe that hon. Members will discuss it with the seriousness that it deserves. It is my believe that the Government will take the recommendations and suggestions that are being made by hon. Members seriously. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a strong conviction that this Government has the capacity, ability and all the necessary resources to stop this fighting, whereas it lacks serious commitment and will to do it. If they had wanted to do it yesterday, they would have done so. We urge this Government to take this matter seriously. We are talking of lives of Kenyans. People are losing their lives. Those of us who have been watching television and reading newspapers see the pathetic situation and misery that those people in northern Kenya are going through. I want to remind this Government that the first and most important responsibility of any Government is to provide security for its citizens and their property. If you fail to do that, then you have no business calling yourself a Government. If this Government will not succeed in this effort of bringing peace in northern Kenya, they will have let the people of northern Kenya down. I want to promise them that these people also have votes. At one point you will need their support. If you do not provide peace for these people, I assure you that you will not get any vote from that part of the country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what is more disturbing is that these conflicts are not just internal. We also have external aggressors. The irony of it all, is that Kenya is a country that is known internationally for sending peace-keeping troops to war-torn countries. How can we be sending troops to other countries to keep peace when we have trouble in our own backyard and we cannot handle it? We have one of the best forces in the world and this is known. That is why we are always being called upon to go and keep peace in other countries. It is high time that this Government put the interests of people of North Eastern Province at heart and provided them with security. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as leaders, we are discussing here and giving solutions that we think the Government can take to bring peace into this part of the country. We hope you will take this seriously. The Government should recruit more security personnel and post them to northern Kenya. Hon. Members from that region are suggesting that these security personnel be 584 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 recruited from the ground. They should be people who understand the problem. We want this to be taken seriously. When you are doing the next recruitment, you should give this more emphasis; recruit young men from those areas so that you can train them and send them to keep peace in those areas. These people should be given the basic necessities, like enough water, so that they do not fight. We want to see what the Government will do in the forthcoming Budget. I want to join my colleagues who said earlier that we can forfeit our bit of the water budget to go to North Eastern region. We can survive without water for some time because we have natural streams and plenty of rainfall. We want to see what the Government will do in the coming Budget. We want the Government to take this issue very seriously. As we blame the Government, we would also like to urge the local communities to have the goodwill. As much as the Government will provide good roads, water and security personnel, if they do not convince themselves that they want to live peacefully with one other, they will not be peaceful. We want the local communities and leaders to preach what they practise. With those few remarks, I support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I would also like to congratulate Mr. Lesrima for bringing this Motion to the House. As Mr. Khamasi said, this is not the first time we are having a Motion like this. It has been repeated over and over and we continue to have serious problems in this country. I agree with the Leader of Official Opposition that this is not the time for us to blame each other. It is time for us to look for solutions. I have always asked myself why we have military barracks in Lang'ata, Eastleigh, Kahawa and Thika. The list is endless. We have Committees in this House to advise the Government that it is not just about sending the police to northern Kenya. We need a fully-fledged military presence in northern Kenya to show our people that as a Government we care and that we have the capacity and ability to protect them. The police can do the menial security duties, but we need army garrisons fully supported by the airforce with aircrafts to fly across those vast areas of northern Kenya whenever there is a problem so that the presence of the Government can give security and confidence to the people of northern Kenya, so that they can feel that they belong to this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week and early this week, we all read in the newspapers that Ethiopian militia had made incursions into Kenya. This automatically becomes an aggression. I hope that the Minister for defence and security will move our forces closer to the Ethiopian border so that we can defend our people. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for cattle rustlers, bandits or armies of the neighbouring country to walk into our territory, take our people's resources and walk back. That should not be allowed! We have to address that issue. Last week, we buried some of our finest colleagues in this House. I personally lost a teacher, Dr. Godana, whom I met in 1978. He taught us with Mr. Muturi here. He was a good person. Because of the problems that we are talking about today, six of our colleagues and other Kenyans are gone. That has been on and on. Sometimes back, we lost a Provincial Commissioner and several others; not to mention the countless villagers who are mere statistics in the war against banditry in northern Kenyan. Time has come for the Government to take the bull by the horns. Time has come for this House to put its foot down and say: "Let us not have barracks around Nairobi. We need them in northern Kenya. Let us not have barracks in Eldoret! We do not need them there. We need them in northern Kenya!" Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, our people are fighting over resources, with water being the key resource. I agree with my colleagues who have said that, it takes very little to give those people water. Build dams! The other day, we went to Marsabit after three days of rain. There April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 585 was water wherever there was a gulley. That means that, if we want to harvest rain water for those people to use, we can do so. The other problem that we have is the mismanagement of land resources, even in Kajiado and Narok. The reckless sub-division of range lands has also created a problem. People are fighting because there is nowhere to graze their animals. We have not given them credible alternatives to lead decent lives. I would like to finish and give others an opportunity to speak. I would like to reiterate what others have said. We have sufficient capacity to stamp out banditry once and for all. We pay our military for doing nothing. Let us now pay them for doing something for the people of Kenya.

Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ahsante sana kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili nichangie huu mjadala nyeti kuhusu usalama. Huu ni mjadala nyeti sana kwa sababu tumewapoteza ndugu zetu tuliokaa nao hapa. Nataka kupendekeza kwamba watu ambao wako upande huo, hasa Mawaziri ambao wanaandika Bajeti na kuleta hapa, wana jukumu kubwa zaidi la kuangalia hayo maneno. Hatuwezi kuwa tunalalamika kila wakati katika Bunge hili. Wengine lazima waonyeshe njia kwa sababu wamepewa mamlaka ya kuwa huko. Tunajua kwamba vyombo vya usalama ni lazima vifanye kazi kwa umoja. Vinapaswa kuzingatia nidhamu zote zinazohusika. Hivi ninavyozungumza, katika Kikosi cha Polisi, inajulikana kwamba Kamishina wa Polisi na Mkurugenzi wa Idara ya Upelelezi hawazungumzi! Hawafanyi kazi pamoja. kuna chuki nyingi kati yao. Tunataka Bw. Waziri atueleze Serikali inafanya nini ili kusuluhisha mzozo huo. Hatuwezi kuongozwa na siasa hasa katika vyombo nyeti kama hivyo vya usalama wa kitaifa. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nakubaliana na yote yaliosemwa na wenzangu kwamba, wakati wa Bajeti, tuangalie hali halisi ya nchi yetu. Hatuwezi kugawanya kila kitu kwa usawa na kupata maendeleo. Ni lazima tuangalie sehemu zingine ambazo ni muhimu sana katika kuharakisha maendeleo. Hiyo ni miundo-misingi ya kitaifa. Vile vile, ni lazima tuangalie sehemu ambazo zimewachwa pembeni kwa muda mrefu. Wakati tunapofanya Bajeti, kwa mfano ya maji, lazima tuseme: "Mwaka huu kwa Bajeti ya maji, tunaenda sehemu fulani!" Nakubali tuanze na zile sehemu kame kama Mkoa wa Kasikazini Mashariki ambao una mahitaji mengi. Hata wakati tunaangalia Bajeti ya barabara, hatuwezi kujenga barabara kila mahali. Lazima tuseme kwamba tutaanza na Nairobi na tuitengeneze yote. Wengine tunaweza kungoja. Sehemu kama Mkoa wa Kasikazini Mashariki na sehemu zote ambazo zimewachwa pembeni, ni lazima tuwe na sera makusudi za kuhakikisha kwamba kila wakati, tunatenga pesa za kutumiwa katika sehemu hizo. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kama vile wengine wamesema, ningependa kuona kuwepo kwa wanajeshi zaidi katika Mkoa wa Kaskazini Mashariki. Maafisa wa polisi, Jeshi la Nchi Kavu na Jeshi la Hewani wanapaswa kupelekwa kwa wingi katika mkoa huo. Tunasikitika kwamba swala la usalama linazidi kuzorota kila wakati. Kuwepo kwao huko kusiwe ni kuchukua silaha tu na kulinda wananchi. Wajiunge na wananchi kujenga mabwawa, kupanda misitu na shughuli zote za kimaendeleo katika sehemu hiyo. Hilo ni jambo ambalo linaweza kufanywa makusudi. Tusingojee hadi mwaka ujao. Hata maswala mengine kama ya kutokujua kusoma na kuandika yanaweza suluhishwa kimapinduzi. Tunaweza kupeleka watu ambao wamesoma katika Mkoa wa Kasikazini Mashariki. Katika muda wa miezi sita, watakuwa wamejua kusoma na kuandika. Nchi zingine zimefanya hivyo badala ya kulimatia na kungojea tu. Nakubali kwamba Bajeti ikija, tuiangalie makusudi kabisa na tutenge pesa za kutumiwa katika sehemu hiyo. Tusijaribu kung'ang'ania pesa hizo ili zipelekwe kwa kila mtu. Ni lazima tuangalie mahali ambapo kuna mahitaji zaidi kama vile barabara, ili tufanye maendeleo. Kwa hayo machache, nashukuru!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to join my colleagues in thanking Mr. Lesrima for bringing this important Motion today. 586 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 There is nothing much we can say unless the officers in charge of security in Kenya come up and do what is necessary. This is not the first time hon. Members are discussing such an important issue that is affecting the security of Kenyans. It has become a play. Maybe, one wants to know what can so and so say and, thereafter, it remains in this House. I pray that we change the way we behave today. I am also grateful that His Excellency the President has announced that on Friday, it will be a national prayer day for Kenyans to come together and remember their God. Maybe, we have gone wrong somewhere. I remember that when the former Government was handing over and the current Government was taking over, there was no joy. Instead of the one taking over appreciating, they were just beating their chests, instead of knowing that it is God who put them there. Even those who were going out were not feeling good. I know that because I was affected by what happened. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you go to West Pokot and Turkana, there are so many security officers in those areas. My colleagues have mentioned the Kenya Army. Even in Kanyarkwat, that is the border between Trans-Nzoia, West Pokot and Uganda, there is a military barracks there. In Kacheliba Constituency, there is a whole unit there. But what are they doing? We also have Anti-Stock Theft Unit (ASTU), General Service Unit (GSU), Administration Police (AP) and the Kenya Police in those areas. If the system does not change--- If the way information is relayed from the district to the national level--- I know the Minister is being misled. There was a Question which was raised by Mr. Leshore today, demanding to know how much money was given for security operations in Samburu only. They said that it was Kshs8.3 million. Even the security officers in Kapenguria are complaining that they have not been paid their dues. Where does that money go? Is it sent to that place and then returned back to Nairobi for some people to use? We know that those young men are devoted to serve their people. But they are not given their rightful dues. In fact, at one time, the issue was in the Press that some officers were interdicted for demanding their rights. My colleagues have mentioned the conflict over the little resources that we have. The conflict between West Pokot and Trans-Nzoia is only because of water.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important issue. This is a matter that touches not only North Eastern Province, but also other parts of this country that seem to be forgotten. First of all, I want to pay special tribute to our colleagues who passed away in the course of peace. I feel we have lost our leaders because there is something wrong somewhere. This is the issue we must discuss here as a House conclusively. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of cattle rustling is not new. It is something that has been there for a long time. But it can be handled and sorted out. One of the things we must do as elected leaders is to, first of all, stop going for each other's throats and start talking about the development of our people so that we know how to sort out the problems we have. We have been sent here to help develop our people, but not to make them fight as is happening now. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the course of this week, I was in Europe. Newspapers and other media there are saying that the next areas for investment in the world are China and Kenya, so long as we create peace among ourselves. Let us not lose the opportunity to develop this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I was in Elwak the other day to see the drought situation, most people there have lost 90 per cent of their livestock. We can set up a programme for northern Kenya where all the schools become the centre of economic development, by building boarding schools all over to enable every child to go to school. Within ten years, every child in Northern Kenya would have gone to secondary school and we will not have a problem like what we are facing today. It is us the leaders in this House who should do this. April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 587 Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Wetangula just spoke about our officers in the military barracks in Nairobi. These are real estates which we can use to make money to develop our economy. If we want to build roads in Nairobi, let us remove the military barracks from here and let us use the money to build roads and attract investments to Kenya.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if this House can set a budgetary process where one battalion per year is removed from Nairobi and taken where they are needed, we will create peace forever in this country. One of the things that I know from my military background is that when there is a crisis, it is the generals to sit down, create a training syllabus for a specific mission. The specific mission we have is not a war that needs tanks or jet fighters. We just need rapid and decisive attacks on the enemy, most of who are simple people who are holding small firearms. I would urge the Minister for Defence, in conjunction with the Minister of State, Office of the President in charge of Internal Security, to sit and create a defence force of just one battalion of the army, combined with police and GSU, to be trained for three months and deploy them there. That way, we will sort out the issue of Pokots, Samburu and Ethiopia forever. The officers are there, sitting idle in the barracks, waiting to go for peace missions outside Kenya. Why should the whole world praise us for peacekeeping when we cannot keep peace in our own country? Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me refer to Trans Mara District. There are other issues causing problems there apart from politics. We have lost more than 2,000 head of cattle in the district to Tanzania. These raids are being carried out by people who simply want to cause chaos in that place. There are well known politicians who are organising the feuds among clans. As a result, the Siria and Moitanik communities are fighting. As of yesterday, more than 700 head of cattle had been stolen. The people who are doing it have guns. We have reported this to the police and made statements to them. We also know who the culprits are, but they are being protected by senior police officers in this Government. I wonder why we should be in the Government, when nobody can listen to what we say, and yet we are the leaders. It is a pity! We must sit as leaders and decide forever that we can run this country and ensure security and peace for our people. My people are suffering, because those who have guns are firing at vehicles as they drive in the area, because nobody is there to protect us. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As one hon. Member mentioned here, I think some of us are shedding crocodile tears for northern Kenya. An hon. Member put it very aptly, that when those who are in the Government, and are in charge of resources and prepare the Budget, stand before us in this House and tell us that the Government should allocate more money to this area, knowing well that this House has no authority at all to reduce or alter the Budget by one shilling, they are engaging in hypocracy. It is, indeed, unfortunate that we have to always express grief for the people of northern Kenya when there is a tragedy. It is wrong, in my view, for this Government to make Friday a national day to mourn for the people of northern Kenya because they lost their leaders. I feel that is mockery. What the people of northern Kenya need is justice. Those whose people were killed in clashes need justice. They want those who killed their people to be arrested by the Government and brought to book. They do not need people to mourn for them or go to churches and ring bells. They need a Government that can provide security and the resources that they need. I think we have taken the people of northern Kenya for a ride for a long time. We were told that there was an Economic Recovery Strategy for northern Kenya. In that book, which I condemned immediately after it was launched because it was a naive attempt to 588 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 deceive the people of northern Kenya, there is not a single new project. What they did was to take the MTEF, the three-year budgetary provisions for the Local Authorities Transfer Fund (LATF), the CDF and all the other usual provisions and put them together for the seven districts. They then said: This is the new Economic Recovery Strategy for northern Kenya. It is wrong for us to sit here every time there is a tragedy to try and pretend that we are providing what people need. I think it is wrong for anyone to say also that I am apportioning blame. I am not! If that area needs development, for heaven's sake let us see that development in terms of the resource allocations that come to this House. We want to see it from those hon. Members seated on the Government side. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the one important thing which the Government has failed to appreciate since Independence is that pastoralism is a way of life. There are people who depend on livestock as their source of living. As long as we do not appreciate that and have a policy that addresses pastoralist communities, we will never get rid of this problem that we are talking about. I want to thank all those hon. Members who have said that there are many causes of insecurity, including lack of development and so forth. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a wrong perception out there about the people of northern Kenya. For the last three weeks, newspapers have been writing stories, quoting religious leaders, politicians, Government leaders and others, creating an impression that the people of northern Kenya, and particularly those in the North Eastern Province, are a murderous community in a self-destruction mode; people who senselessly want to kill themselves. That perception is wrong. It is also wrong for anyone to imagine that banditry is the same as carjacking or that cattle rustling should be treated like robbery. I do not think that there is any tribe or any community in northern Kenya which sits down and plans to commit cattle rustling. There is no community which sits down and decides to commit banditry. These things are, of course, done by individuals. However, the circumstances on the ground dictate that we handle those kind of crimes differently from the way they are being handled in Nairobi or in other parts of this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has been said very clearly that there is no way we can address these issues unless we address the underlying problem. We all know that even in Nairobi, and in many other parts of this country, the incidence of crime is related to the level of poverty in the country. The level of poverty in that area is extreme. The level of under-development is extreme. There is lack of infrastructure, as has been mentioned, a serious problem of unemployment and lack of education, among other problems. When you have 20 per cent enrolment in schools, it means that the remaining 80 per cent of children who are not in school are available to be engaged as militia, in cattle rustling and in all sorts of vices. All these problems create alienation. It is this alienation that is creating all this resentment. With those remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. We must make a big distinction between insecurity and lack of peace, because the two are very distinct. I believe that when we talk about insecurity, we are talking about skirmishes and people stealing cattle from other people, and so on. When we talk about peace, we are not talking about the absence of war. Peace is a very big and embracing concept. I believe that both insecurity and peace can be dealt with differently. When we talk about the Government deploying security personnel to certain areas, we are talking about insecurity. To me, that is not a solution. On the other hand, it is a temporary way of dealing with lack of harmonious co-existence between either the groups outside Kenya or groups within Kenya. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we know that every year, there will be drought and that people will die of hunger. For instance, we know that next year, we will experience drought. April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 589 What surprises me is that we wait until it happens then we act as if it is a serious emergency or something that has completely come upon us by surprise. This brings us to the idea of some kind of response mechanism and putting in place a plan that can be used to pre-empt the consequences of drought. Today, the Government can do a number of things. Parliament can do a number of things. Members of Parliament can do a number of things. Political leaders other than Members of Parliament can do a number of things. Religious leaders can do a number of things. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is so much emphasis on material solutions, and yet even the spiritual angle is very important. You cannot talk about peace in terms of just materialism. For example, when one community pits itself against another, what is it? Besides competition for scarce resources, it means that there is lack of love or lack of friendship between those communities, to be able to sit down and discuss issues. You can actually share poverty if you have peaceful co-existence. When it comes to material solutions to the problem, we must address the issue of allocation of resources. I would like to suggest the following: We are soon going to have an allocation for the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) and the Budget for Financial Year 2006/2007. As part of the Economic Recovery Strategy, even the World Bank and all other donor agencies that help the Government with resources talk in terms of ring-fencing social issues. This means, dealing with issues that directly affect poverty. We should ring-fence social issues, meaning that we should deal with issues that cause poverty. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government should ring-fence a certain percentage of the total Budget and allocate it to the ASAL areas. For example, about 2.5 per cent of the total Budget should be ring-fenced and allocated to the ASAL areas in North Eastern Province and parts of the Rift Valley Province. This money can be ring-fenced and made sure that it goes specifically to those areas. If you do that for five successful years, the effects will be felt and seen. That is what I understand by equitable distribution of resources. You must try and have affirmative action to bring the areas that have been marginalised to the same level with the areas that have usually enjoyed more resources. The Government and this House can jointly implement this proposal. The Budget is soon coming to this House. We should agree here to scrutinise the Budget to see what is the total component for ASAL areas that has been provided. With those few remarks, I beg to support the Motion.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Insecurity, not only in North Eastern Province, but in the whole of the country where we have skirmishes, is pathetic and unbelievable. I cannot understand why brothers can turn against one another. It has been said that we have insecurity in areas where poverty levels are high. If two communities are both poor, why would they turn against each other? Are we saying that if a family has no food for the night, then they will turn against each other the following morning? If people are going to turn against those who have food and maybe take the food by force, I can understand that. When people are all poor and they start fighting, what are they fighting for? They should unite, so that they can find a solution to their problem and probably fight against the Government which ought to provide them with food. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think there are more reasons to insecurity than just poverty. Indeed, Kenyans have taken the peace that we have enjoyed for the last 43 years for granted and thought that peace is just there to be enjoyed. They have forgotten that there is a living God who gives that peace. Instead of looking upon God, we have started to fight against one another and idol worshipping. I want to take this opportunity to thank the President very sincerely for declaring this coming Friday a public holiday and a prayer day. This is a day for repentance for this country because we have assumed very many things. We have assumed that when we turn against one 590 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 another, we are going to get a solution. If we turn to God, call upon Him and ask Him for solutions to these problems, then we will not resort to violence. Kenyans should know that this is a very dangerous period, not only in Kenya but in the universe. In the spirit world, this period is called the "Black Mark". There is a lot of spiritual warfare going on. Satan wants to see people killing one another so that he can have a sacrifice. We do not seem to understand that; instead, we condemn those who call us to prayer. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am also concerned that we allocate a lot of money for the armed forces. In fact, we vote more money to the armed forces than to the agricultural sector, which is the mainstay for this country. We are left to wonder what the armed forces are doing to protect our people from foreign aggression. Why do we need them? If the Ugandan Army can cross over into our side, like the Chair said here a few hours earlier, and kill Kenyans, what are the armed forces doing if they cannot retaliate? There must be something wrong! That is why I would like to call upon this country to turn to the living God instead of worshipping idols. If we are going to allocate money to the armed forces, we should deploy them at the border to protect our people and their property. We are not at war with anybody and we continue feeding our armed forces! The issue of insecurity is not only confined to northern Kenya, but even in Nairobi, there are some areas where you cannot walk freely after 6ix o'clock. The police should patrol those areas to enable our people to continue with their businesses as usual. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Finally, I caught your eye. I am the official leader of my party in this House.

Order! Order! This will not be the adequate time for that. Those who catch the Speaker's eye get a chance to speak, but you do not have to comment when you catch the Speaker's eye. So, just continue making your contribution.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was just thanking you for, at least, catching your eye. First of all, I want to also thank hon. Lesrima for bringing this Motion. This is not the first time I have heard about insecurity in North Eastern Province. As many of my colleagues have said, the main reason for insecurity within the region is poverty. As the saying goes, charity begins at home. I would like to appeal to my colleagues, particularly those ones from the ASAL areas, to lead by example, by investing in those areas. I am aware that several people from ASAL areas have invested millions of shillings in Nairobi, particularly in Eastleigh. These people can sink boreholes in their areas to supplement Government efforts. This will avert the current conflict over water in those areas. I also agree with my colleagues that the army should be deployed to those areas to protect our people and their property. Recently, I read an article about the American border between the USA and Mexico, where the Americans are putting up a wall. The money we lost in the Anglo Leasing and Finance scandal is enough to put up a wall between Ethiopia and Kenya up to the Somali border. It is enough to erect a wall between Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia. Kenya can also put up that wall to safeguard our people once and for all. Let those people live in peace, at least, for one year, and you will see more development in those areas. April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 591 Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the things that those people are fighting for is cattle. We need to have a market for the cattle. There are markets in Nairobi and other areas. For those people to bring their cattle to those areas, the Government must repair the roads. The roads are in such a dilapidated state that the cattle cannot be taken to the market. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, armies from developed nations, like the British and American armies, have come to this country many times. They practise in those areas. But the Kenya Army, on the other hand, practise their shooting range in Athi River. Why can they not go and do those exercises in those areas like the British and American armies? By doing that, they will be keeping peace within the regions that those bandits operate. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is said that peace is the absence of war. Insecurity is the presence of banditry and hooliganism. If we can only contain the bandits and hooligans operating in those areas, we shall live in peace. Insecurity will be gone! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week was my first time to visit Marsabit. I went to bury my colleagues. May their souls rest in peace. I was perplexed to fly over vast areas of lands which are not inhabited at all. Whenever I looked down, what I could see were only camels. I could not even see the people herding them. When we finally touched down, what I could see were people herding camels with guns on their backs. It is pathetic that such things still exist. We have been disarming those people and re-arming them to fight. We give local people arms to fight well trained armies that are coming from across the borders. We were also told that the roads from Addis-Ababa to the Kenyan border are as smooth as those in Kenyan cities. Then, on coming to the Kenyan side of the border, you will find no roads at all. That is one of the causes of insecurity within that region. Could the Government pump in more money to open up the road to Ethiopia? By doing that, trade between the two countries will flourish. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Ahsante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Ni yule anayeathirika na hali ya kutokuwa na usalama ambaye anafahamu uchungu. Sio Mkoa wa Magharibi au Kaskasini Mashariki tu ambapo watu wameathirika na hali ya kutokuwa na usalama. Hivi majuzi, tumeona gharama ya kutokuwa na usalama. Kenya imelipa gharama kubwa. Wazalendo walipokuwa wakienda huko, walipoteza maisha yao. Lakini ni lazima viongozi wakae na kufikiria habari walizonazo. Ni kwa nini kuna vita vya kikabila katika sehemu fulani? Katika sehemu yangu, Wakuria na Wamaasai wameishi pamoja kwa miaka mingi. Hata watu wa Mkoa wa Kaskazini Mashariki wameishi pamoja kwa miaka mingi. Lakini kila wakati, vita hutokea. Viongozi humu Bungeni hukaa, huongea na kuafikiana. Wanakubalina juu ya mambo yatakayotekelezwa na Serikali. Siku moja, mimi nikiwa ndani ya Serikali, nilitoa wosia wangu kwa Serikali kwamba kuna ukosefu wa usalama katika eneo langu la Bunge. Niliuliza Serikali itekeleze mambo fulani. Lakini haya mambo huangukia masikio yaliofunikwa. Kuna sababu gani kwa sehemu fulani nchini kuwa na wakuu wa wilaya ambao wamefanya kazi kwa miaka zaidi ya minne katika sehemu yenye vita? Kuna sababu gani wakati kuna ukosefu wa usalama, maafisa wanaopelekwa huko wanatoka kwa makabila hayo hayo? Tunawaambia kwamba wakati unapopendekeza njia za kuleta usalama, lazima wanaohusika waondolewe katika sehemu hizo, ikiwa wao ndio wanaangalia usalama. Naomba kwamba wanaohusika katika sehemu yangu na TransMara waondolewe, hata kama ni askari Wakuria au Wamaasai, walete maafisa kutoka sehemu zingine ili kudumisha usalama. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, wakuu wa wilaya ambao wamekaa hapo kwa siku ambazo zimepita waondolewe. Hata kama amekaa miezi mitatu lakini kuja kwake ndio ikawa chanzo cha mapigano ya wananchi, hafai. Inafaa aondolewe kwa sababu labda yeye ndiye anasababisha 592 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 mapigano haya. Wanapopigana hao watu hupewa mali. Ng'ombe wanavyoibiwa, kuna ng'ombe mmoja amewekewa. Wakati mwingine lazima historia pia iangaliwe; yaani juu ya mambo ya shamba na ardhi. Watu wanalalamika kwamba hii ni sehemu yao tangu siku za awali, na tafadhali waachwe wafuge mifugo wao na sio kufunika masikio na kuangalia kando wakati watu wanalalamika. Mbiu ya mgambo ikilia kuna jambo. Usipowasikiliza hawa kama wameshalima chakula chao halafu wengine wanakuja kulisha mifugo yao kwa hiki chakula na wakati wa kuvuna hawana chakula, wanaanza kukodolea Serikali macho kuwapa chakula cha ziada; basi mtu kama huyo ana uchungu wa kutoka na kwenda kupigana kwa sababu lazima alishe watoto wake. Mambo kama haya lazima yaangaliwe kwa undani. Ni kwa nini watu wanapigana? Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, inafaa Tume ya Ndung'u iangalie mambo ya mashamba kwa sababu kuna wengine wamenyanyaswa na kunyang'anywa mashamba. Watapeleka mifugo wapi? Lazima wachunge mifugo yao. Ni kweli gharama tunayotumia kwa askari wa ulinzi wa nchi hii ni kubwa sana na isiyostahili. Hao watu wapewe kazi ya kufanya. Kama hakuna vita, basi wajiunge na wengine wenzao waangalie na kulinda usalama wa nchi. Kama kuna jambo la vita basi wapelekwe huko kwa wingi na watunze walioathirika kusudi usalama urudi. Tukifanya hivi, basi tutapiga hatua mstari wa mbele. Maendeleo ni lazima yatekelezwe kila mahali nchini kwa sababu ukimnyang'anya mtoto kisu lazima umpe kijiti cha kuchezea. Kama hutaki afanye kazi ya ukulima wa ng'ombe ama kukimbiza ng'ombe kama yeye ni mwizi wa ng'ombe, basi mpe kilimo. Sehemu hizi zinatosha na zinafaa kwa kilimo fulani fulani, hata hizi sehemu za mipakani kama huko kwetu. Peleka kilimo huko kama mazao ya majani chai, weka viwanda, peleka umeme, lima barabara. Kukiwa na vita, Serikali itakimbia na kufika huko kwa muda mfupi. Peleka simu na mawasiliano yao yatakuwa sawa na ya karibu. Peleka simu za mkono kusudi kama mtu ana shida anaweza kupiga simu na kwa muda mfupi Serikali imefika huko. Magari ambayo yanapelekwa huko yawe mazuri na sio magari yanayochechemea kila wakati. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, naunga Hoja hii.

Mr. Biwott!

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have just called out Mr. Biwott to contribute to this Motion yet he has just walked into the Chambers.

But that is at the Chair's discretion!

Order, hon. Members! Proceed, Mr. Biwott!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. The plight of pastoralists lies in their culture because they have been like that for many years. They need to transform. What we see today is what we saw in the 1940s and 1950s in our own areas. There is no difference---

Were you there?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can confirm I saw this. Therefore, we need to address that issue squarely and take it as an affirmative action in the ASAL areas. The culture of most of these people requires change. Change can only be achieved if those areas are singled out and they are developed accordingly. Nomads move from one place to the other. However, they need to settle and stabilise their activities. In order to achieve this, these people need to be educated. So, the issue of education is of key importance. They must also have something to occupy them such as embarking on irrigation projects. They should also have micro- industries such as processing meat, hides and skins, shoe making and a few other activities that can keep them busy while they try to change their way of life. It is no use for anybody who does not understand them to try and change their way of life because they are primarily pastoralists. They April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 593 are simply morans. A moran is a man who feels he is one because, culturally, he has been brought up to think that way.

Like total man!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, these people also need good communication facilities such as mobile phones. It is important that the areas that pastoralists live have proper roads. When there are good roads in those areas, these people can be assisted security- wise and settlements will automatically develop along the roads. As they get educated, they will move away from their way of life to a new one. Electricity is also very vital for the development of this area. They also need industries that can create employment. Other than the culture which these people have been used to for centuries, there is also the problem of cross-border conflicts. This problem is aggravated by international boundaries where there are two or three governments involved. This requires co-operation and constant negotiations. In cases of conflict, pastoralists need to be talked to because they are people who reason out. They need to be approached through the elder consultative mechanism where they get them to reach important agreements. In most cases, these people usually come up with very binding verbal agreements. If those traditional methods of binding them to keep peace are maintained, they will assist in the process of ensuring there is stability in the region. They also need constant support. On the question of perennial drought, poverty and lack of food, I think those are issues that can be addressed if rural access is done. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to emphasise what the Minister for Youth Affairs talked about when he visited Marsabit District. He said that we need cross-trunk roads, for example, from Isiolo District to Moyale District; from Laisamis-Lodwar District to Southern Sudan. We also need a road between Kapenguria District, crossing all the way to Kacheliba Constituency. If necessary, these roads should be tarmacked so that these people are assisted. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, therefore, the thrust of this Motion is that these people need to be singled out, their region developed and issues that cause perennial instability in the area addressed. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Hon. Members, it is now time for the Official Government Responder to respond.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise at this particular moment to support this Motion. I would like to thank hon. Lesrima for introducing this Motion, so that hon. Members of this House may have an opportunity to discuss this matter of great importance to this nation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, insecurity, cattle rustling and cross-border insecurity are not matters to be taken lightly. I wish the hon. Member for Budalang'i would listen. I saw him trying to rise in order to address this problem but there was not enough time. You may recall that last year, we launched what we called "Operation Dumisha Amani" in the North Rift region. It was launched in the districts of Turkana, TransNzoia, Baringo, West Pokot, Marakwet, Samburu and certain parts of Laikipia. Under that programme we persuaded people to surrender their arms. Many of them co-operated, except certain pockets which I will refer to later. We also introduced services to those areas. We have made roads and drilled more boreholes. In fact, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation provided from its own budget Kshs11.5 million to supplement what we had in the Office of the President to maintain machinery and drill more boreholes. Schools were also opened after they had been closed for 10 years. Markets started operating. For example, the County Council of Samburu had its revenue collection doubled. The efforts of the Government to maintain peace have been unequalled by those of any other time in 594 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES April 19, 2006 this country. We have tried to restore peace and order. I would like to join those who have already sent their condolences to the families of our colleagues who died in the Marsabit plane crash as they were taking peace to Marsabit and Moyale Districts. This is an effort that was initiated by the Government since last year. However, I think this House would be, if I may borrow from your words, out of order not to recognise the problems of insecurity in this country. It is just not a matter of cattle rustling in northern Kenya. If you go to Moyale, you will hardly know who is from Kenya and who is from Ethiopia. There is that interaction of people. Indeed, when it was alleged that people were coming from a neighbouring country, we used all manner of identification. For example, the neighbouring country has no programme of vaccinations which leave a mark on the arm. So we tried to identify young people by referring to the marks on their arms. Those who do not want peace marked themselves. Eventually, it became almost impossible to know who comes from which part. Our border with Ethiopia, for those who may not know, is 861 kilometres. However, the areas that require supervision are areas that are occupied by people of one ethnic origin; the Borans. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, until and unless the Borans of Kenyans and Borans of Ethiopia decide to live like the Maasai of Kenya and Tanzania, where each of them knows where their nationality is but interact culturally, the problem in the north will never end. It is not a military problem. It is not even a police problem. It is a problem of the people, and in particular the leaders themselves. There is a lot of hypocrisy in this House because I can see some people here who are visualising other situations. They are talking in languages which are reminiscent of a man who has been saved from whatever it is that he is saved from!

We have decided, as a Government, that from now on, we will disarm the Pokots by force.

If they want to have the experience of 1984, when the then Government disarmed them by force, this is precisely what we are going to do.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I never interrupted anybody and I should be allowed to finish.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister telling us that they are now going to wage war against the Kenyan people, specifically the Pokots?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, those who have ears have heard!

We have also decided that where incidents of insecurity occur, those people will be pursued until they have been caught. I want to warn the Maasai, Kurias, West Pokot, East Baringo and all those other communities which are involved in this matter. That is a warning and it cannot be anything less.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order to refer to a whole community as if it is all involved in criminal activities? Are all Pokots involved April 19, 2006 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 595 in criminal activities?

Order, hon. Members! It is only fair that we listen to the Government respondent. So, let him continue.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have talked about insecurity in northern Kenya and other ASAL areas. Let the House note that since Independence, at least before our Government came into power, there were 40 dams and 50 boreholes dug by the Government. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the NARC Government came into power in 2002, it has constructed 344 dams and 2,800 boreholes, which will provide a population of 33,000 Kenyans with water per day. because we are now capable of producing 1.5 million cubic metres of water per day. We had also, in addition, particularly for the ASAL areas, spent Kshs1.5 billion to provide water, in addition to other humanitarian activities which have been taken deliberately by the Government, to make sure that all areas participate in overall Kenyan development.

On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I think I should be spared that information because I am just about to finish. Our expenditure in the water projects does not include any money from donors. The money used has been got through our own efforts. Therefore, let the House note that the Government is determined. It does not matter whether you are in this House or where you come from. We shall arrest you if you continue to participate in agitation and cattle rustling. Wherever you may be, we will arrest you. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Order, hon. Members! It is now time to interrupt the business of the House. This House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 20th April, 2006, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.