asked the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security:-
(a) the circumstances under which a security officer shot and injured a 78-year-old woman, Mrs. Nomugien Lololemu, at Archerâs Post Trading Centre on 6th June, 2009; and,
(b) the identity of the officer responsible for the shooting and whether the officer has been arrested for the crime.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) According to the police records held at Archerâs Post and those at the Division Police Headquarters at Maralal, no such shooting was reported and no security officer was involved in any shooting within that area, on that particular date or during that period. (b) Part âbâ of the Question does not arise. However, the hon. Member should advise Mrs. Nomugien Lololemu to report the shooting to police immediately in order for us to commence the investigations.
Mr. Assistant Minister, is the giving of the Question not notice to you as the Assistant Minister? How can you ask the Questioner to ask the Mrs. Lololemu to report when you have the information?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I personally went overboard and advised the District Commissioner (DC) to advise the lady to report the shooting incident in order for us to commence investigations.
This is a Question that sets out that there was a shooting incident involving this person. You have answered it; stating that there is no record of shooting on that day. Now, you are asking that the same information be supplied to the police.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed, it is true that if there are no records, it becomes very difficult on our part.
So, what further information will you get when Mrs. Lololemu reports that she was shot on 6th June, 2009?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to our records, there was no shooting done on that particular day. So, in order for my officers to commence investigations, a report must be filed. In the absence of a report, it becomes very difficult for us.
What are you answering in this House now? You are answering a Question relating to a reported death.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am answering a Question relating to a reported death according to the Member of Parliament.
Yes! But he is the Member of Parliament representing the person that you are asking to report.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is true. But for us also to commence investigations, at least, it is better for the Member of Parliament or Mrs. Lololemu to report the matter to the police.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me inform this House because I think the Assistant Minister is actually denying the truth. It should be ascertained that on 6th June, 2009, the Government deployed security personnel to Archerâs Post. So, they were there. Secondly, I, personally, went to Archerâs Post Police Post, met the Officer Commanding Police Patrol Base (OCPP) and saw the Occurrence Book (OB). The records are there. The matter was reported by the area councilor. The lady is now hospitalized at Wamba Mission Hospital. I even went there to see her and she is still there. So, how can the Assistant Minister deny that shooting took place whereas security personnel were there? When there was harassment of people as they normally do, they started shooting indiscriminately. The records are at Archerâs Police Post.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member could be telling the truth. But when you get to the bottom of this problem, the only thing we can do is to start investigations when a report has been filed. Let me just give the background.
Order, Mr. Ojode! You have just been informed. In the first place, you should not say that the hon. Member may be telling the truth. He is making a statement in the House to which you have responded positively. He has further said that this lady is gravely ill in hospital. What other information are you likely to get more than what you are getting in the House?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair is saying the truth. But what the hon. Member is saying is that somebody else went and reported the matter to the police, and it was recorded in the OB. Would I be in order to ask for the reference of the OB, because as far as we are concerned, there has never been a report which was recorded in the OB? What would be the OB number, for me to facilitate from there?
Order! Mr. Ojode, you will go back with this Question and refer the matter to the police to give you a proper answer. The Question relates to a particular date and person and you confirm that you have done investigations, which are being contradicted. He is not going to give you any further information than he has provided. Could you, please, go back and give us a proper answer to this Question? How long do you require to do that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have any problem with that. But let me say this before I oblige to your proposal.
If what you are trying to do is to challenge the Chairâs ruling on the need to go and get proper investigations on the killing of this 78-year old woman, then you will be gravely out of order!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know that this is a matter of life and death. It involves the shooting of an innocent person.
Whose particulars you have!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would ask the Chair to allow me to go and check if at all there was any report made in our OB. In the circumstances that the report was not made, I would request the hon. Member to ask Mrs. Lololemu to report in order for us to commence investigations. I oblige.
In the circumstances that no report was made, take this information from this House, as the report and let us get an answer. How long do you require for that?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Thursday next week.
Is Mr. Kaino not here! We will come back to that Question.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mr. Kaino was in the precincts of Parliament and I gave him the answer.
We will see what happens at the end of this first round of Questions. Let us move on to the next Question, Mr. Waititu.
asked the Minister for Water and Irrigation:- (a) whether he is aware that the Nairobi Water Company is completely unable to cater for the water needs of Embakasi residents and that most of them receive very little water or none at all; (b) what the Government is doing to correct the situation; and (c) what budgetary provisions he has made for the supply of water in Embakasi Constituency in the 2009/2010 Financial Year.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) Most estates in the Nairobi City, including Embakasi, are not receiving adequate water due to decline in water levels in Ndakaini and Sasumwa dams. This is due
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we appreciate the work that the Ministry is doing. We also understand that there is a big drought in the country. However, the rationing of water supply is so severe that some people do not receive water at all. The Ministry is digging boreholes at a very slow pace. Could the Assistant Minister give a timeframe on when all those boreholes earmarked for Embakasi will be completed, so that people can get water from those boreholes?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the drilling is almost 90 per cent complete. But the actual operationalisation is yet to take place. We have received funds on emergencies and we shall make sure that residents start getting water as soon as possible. No particular estate will go without water for more than three days. We will also make sure that we get water boozers to supply water to Government institutions such as schools and hospitals.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could the Assistant Minister tell us what they are doing to alleviate water problems in the upper parts of this country? Most of the water companies are serving the lower parts of this country in total disregard of the upper parts of the country. One of the reasons we have water problems is that we have for a long time neglected waters towers in this country. In my constituency we have one of the water towers, but my people do not get water from it although they are supposed to preserve Aberdares ridges. We have water going to Laikipia and Nakuru. What is the Ministry doing about this issue?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is about regulating the water intakes which are actually licensed. The issue of water is very serious because we do not have enough water in the country. We have to live with this fact for a longer time. That is why every day we are reading about the Mau Water Towers and the danger it poses to our population. The issue here is that there is no water flowing from our rivers. The danger is that the next conflict will be water war. We will make sure that we regulate---
Mr. Kiunjuri, the supplementary question relates to the Aberdares. You are talking very generally yet the question was very specific.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am giving a general view. It is not only in Aberdares where we have this problem. It is the same in Mt. Kenya region and other areas. Rivers are not flowing beyond Timau Road. Most of them have dried up. The Chair can witness this because he uses the same road to Meru. We, as Parliament, must address the issue of scarcity of water in this country.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to ask the Assistant Minister a question. While appreciating the quick response by the Ministry to this matter, could he give us the criteria they are using to drill the 50 boreholes in Nairobi? Could he also give the total allocation for the same?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the boreholes were located long time ago. I said they have 90 per cent drilled and it is only about operationalisation. However, it is not only Nairobi that is facing severe drought and lack of water, I would like to ask hon. Members of Parliament to let us know where there is severe shortage of water, so that we can drill boreholes to make sure residents get water. So, this problem applies across the country. We are seeking for that information. We have asked our District Water Officers to give comprehensive reports on their respective districts. However, Members of Parliament are free to complement what we are getting from the District Water Officers.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, two weeks ago, the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Water and Irrigation launched a borehole at Zimmerman Estate. He promised that the price of water will be Kshs2 per 20-litre jerrycan. Could he confirm whether this is the case and explain the steps he is taking to ensure that water remains at Kshs2 per 20-litre jerrycan?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Permanent Secretary is the Accounting Officer of the Ministry. If he directed so, then that is what should be followed. I will make sure that I take it up with him once I get to the office. We cannot take advantage of the prevailing drought situation in the country and exploit our people. So, if our people can afford Kshs2 per 20-litre jerrycan, that is how we will sell water to them. Otherwise, I will take up the matter with the hon. Member of Parliament. I will make sure that I call the hon. Member in the next one hour once I get back to the office.
PAYMENT OF COMPENSATION TO MR. JACKSON NYAMOHANGAâS FAMILY
I understand there has been a request. Mr. Shakeel is not here, so this Question is deferred to next week because this is a Supply Week.
Next Question, Mr. Kiuna!
asked the Minister for Agriculture:- (a) whether he could explain why Central Rift Region should be represented in the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya by only one director, in spite of its 60 per cent production capacity, considering that the election of
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) The Central Rift is represented by one director to the PBK based on the current production levels. This will be reviewed once the production level improves; The decision to reduce the electoral zones from six to four was informed by the declining production and other institutional costs incurred by the sub-sector.
(b) The justification for the 7:4 ratio for Government appointed directors to those elected by the farmer is for providing the complementary roles required for better performance of the industry.
(c) The Government has already paid Kshs4.6 million out of the Kshs16.4 million owed to Molo farmers for the period of April to June 2009. The outstanding balance of Kshs11.8 million will be cleared as soon as funds are available. The Kshs70 million referred to by the hon. Member is for the entire country and not for Molo District.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to congratulate the Assistant Minister for that answer but there are some issues that he needs to address. First, these regions are well represented and many farmers are devoted to cultivating their land to produce these flowers but they have never been considered. What criterion or method did you use to elect those Directors? By electing members from the Government and forgetting those people who are cultivating the flowers, you are discouraging them. Could the Assistant Minister assure this House that in the next elections, they will consider farmers instead of electing people from the Government?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to assure the hon. Member that the Directors are not employees of the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya. They are Directors who are supposed to be involved in the formulation of regulations. The number of zones are not fixed but they are based on a number of factors, among them, the current production trend, the number of active growers, the geographical location and layout, the expansiveness of the area, distance, accessibility and on the homogeneity of the growers. The pyrethrum industry in Kenya is on the death bed. As a Ministry, we are doing the best we can to promote the production of pyrethrum. I want to assure the hon. Member that once the production is improved, we are going to increase the electoral zones from the current four to six within the next one year because we are determined to increase the production. We have a new factory which cannot operate because there is no production. But as a Government, I want to give an assurance to this House that I will increase the production. We are going to increase the electoral zones from the current four to six within one year.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister has assured this House that his intention is to promote the production of pyrethrum in Kenya. He has also told the House that the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya owes farmers Kshs70 million. You cannot promote pyrethrum production when you owe farmers that much. What is he doing to ensure that the money is cleared and by when?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank this august House. When the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance presented his current Budget, he made a provision of Kshs70 million to clear all the outstanding debts up to June this year. The House has already approved the Budget and we are going to pay the farmers by 1st of August, 2009.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come from Ndaragwa Constituency which is the largest producer of pyrethrum in this area and if the records say otherwise, then I am ready for any corrections. Looking at these electoral zones, we have Naivasha being grouped together in Eastern and Central zones. Central and Eastern zones include the larger Nyandarua, Imenti South, Imenti North and Naivasha. In the last period, Naivasha produced 150 metric tonnes of pyrethrum and it is more strategically positioned to have been grouped with Central Rift. Could the Assistant Minister tell this House what wisdom was used to group Naivasha together with Imenti South and Imenti North?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had explained that due to the current production of the entire industry, it was found prudent to review the number of electoral zones from six to four. Then you find that they have used the criteria of geographical locations, layout and expansiveness of the area. The production of pyrethrum in the larger Meru is something very little. When you combine central and eastern zones and due to proximity, we found it good to group them in one particular zone. Our biggest responsibility now is to increase production---
Order, Mr. Mbiuki! The hon. Member asked: What is the wisdom, if any, of putting Naivasha together with South Imenti and North Imenti?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is due to the geographical location.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead this House that Naivasha is nearer Imenti South and not nearer Nakuru?
He is completely out of order! Mr. Mbiuki, Naivasha is very far geographically from South Imenti.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when you capture the geographical map of the entire nation, that is the criteria we used to group these regions, depending on locations and the expansiveness of the area and the homogeneity of the growers in all these particular areas. We found it prudent to keep all the farmers in Central and some parts of Eastern together. We have four major regions: The South Rift, which is largely Molo---
Order! Just restrict yourself to answering the question by the hon. Member. The question is: What was the justification for lumping Naivasha with South Imenti and North Imenti? That is the question that you have been asked, but up to now you have not even attempted to answer it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason why we put Naivasha in Central and Eastern is that we are able to put Naivasha with the other parts of Eastern Province due to homogeneity of the farmers and the growers in that particular region.
Order! I do not think that is a satisfactory answer. We need a proper explanation as to the criteria for zoning the country geographically as per pyrethrum growing regions. How long would you take to get that answer to the satisfaction of the House?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in clarification of how we grouped Naivasha that way, I can make further inquiries and bring the answer this afternoon.
Is this afternoon okay with you?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the written reply.
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government what plans the Nairobi City Council has to provide more land to the Muslim Community for the establishment of cemeteries, considering that the existing ones are full.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg for the indulgence of the House. The hon. Member does not have the answer and the original copy of the answer has just been taken for photocopying. It should be back in a few minutes and then I can respond to it later.
That is okay. Next Question by Mr. Ombui!
asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) what plans he has to upgrade Nyansiongo Hospital to a district hospital; and, (b) when the Government will provide a vehicle for the hospital.
Is the Minister for Medical Services not here? Any Member of the Front Bench?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not seeing the Minister but I will pass the message that the answer should be brought tomorrow afternoon.
Just a moment. Where is the Minister and the Assistant Minister?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have neither seen the Minister nor the Assistant Minister.
We shall come back to this Question later.
Next Question, by Mr. Mbai! Mr. Mbai!
No, I was not asleep, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Mr. Mbai! You may not have been asleep but the Question was called three times!
I did not hear you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am sorry.
REPORT ON TARDAâS ACQUISITION OF MASINGA DAM LAND
asked the Minister for Regional Development Authorities:- (a) whether he could provide a detailed report on how TARDA acquired the land occupied by Masinga Dam; (b)whether he could table the agreement between the Authority and the local county councils and state the amount of money paid to them in terms of land rates to date; (c) whether he could state the number of persons who were displaced by the dam as well as the rate of compensation; and, (d) whether he could provide the list of projects initiated by TARDA in Masinga Constituency since inception.
The Minister for Regional Development Authorities not here? We will come back to that Question later on. Next Question, Mr. Gunda!
Is the Member for Bahari in?
What have you said, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir? I did not hear you! Did you defer my Question?
Order, Mr. Gunda! If the hon. Member is not interested in his Question and if you persist in behaving as if you are not participating in the proceedings of the House, I may have to ask you to leave the House!
Next Question! Mr. Gunda, we will come back to your Question in a little while!
asked the Minister for Planning, National Development and Vision 2030:
(a) If he could lay on the Table a list of all banks with which Constituency Development Fund Committees (CDFC) are authorized to operate accounts; and,
(b) The criteria that was used to select the banks.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have agreed with the Minister that it should come in the afternoon.
Indeed, that Question will be deferred to this afternoon. I was requested by the Minister because he has to attend to some important function at this time.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We assume that the Order Paper for this afternoon is already out.
Yes, it cannot be this afternoon. Mr. Nyamai, would you consult with the Minister so that it can be answered next Wednesday? The Order Paper may be already ready for today. Consult the Minister and the Question can be on the Order Paper for next Wednesday.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have noticed that most of these Questions which have been put on this Order Paper---
Mr. K. Kilonzo, I think you are coming too soon because I still have to go the second time and then you can raise your point at that time. I want to go to back to Question No.092.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is not on a specific Question.
Order, Mr. K. Kilonzo! You may raise that point of order when I come to the end of the Questions.
Okay, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Next Question, Mr. Kaino!
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir---
Order, Mr. Kaino! This is the second time this Question is being asked. You need to apologize to the House and explain your failure to be in the House when the Question was asked.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I extremely apologize for being late.
You need to explain the reason for your lateness!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was because of the traffic jam that is prevalent that has prevented me from coming to the House early.
asked the Minister for Livestock Development:-
(a) why Artificial Insemination (AI) services are not available in Marakwet; and,
(b) when the Ministry will offer the service to Marakwet farmers.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(a) The Government used to provide AI services at a very subsidized cost until when the policy of free supply of AI services was changed in the late 1990s. This was due to the economic hardships experienced in the 1980s and 1990s which again resulted in the implementation of the Structural Adjustment programmes (SAPs). The implementation of this programme recommended the privatization of AI services throughout the country. This entailed encouraging the private sector practitioners, the dairy co-operative societies and the self-help groups in set up AI services, and through the Ministry of Livestock, Department of Veterinary Services, to give an advisory and regulatory/supervisory and certification role. Currently, we have 750 private AI service providers throughout the country who are operating under the supervision of the local district veterinary officers. The partnership between the Government and the private sector has effectively taken root in as far as AI service provision is concerned to the livestock farmers. It has also created jobs along the production/distribution chain. My Ministry, through the Central Artificial Insemination Station based in Kabete, has continued to produce superior disease-free bull semen to farmers throughout the country.
(b) This privatization process was successful in the high to medium potential areas but was not very well captured in the marginal and low potential areas such as Marakwet. In regions where AI privatization is not sufficient or has all along not taken root, the Department of Veterinary Service will continue rendering the service on a full cost recovery basis. In the case of Marakwet, the District Veterinary Officer has been instructed to embark on the above mentioned programme on providing and facilitating the AI service in Marakwet. In addition, private AI service providers in Marakwet are also on the ground. There is Unitech Agrovet based at Kapsowar. There are a number of
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the farmers in Marakwet have lost greatly due to the absence of these services. But I am grateful to the Assistant Minister for promising Marakwets that he has instructed--- I can read from the answer that the Assistant Minister has instructed the District Veterinary Officer in Kapsowar to provide these services. I just want to know when Marakwet will get these services. When was the letter sent to Marakwet because there is nothing completely? Even the privatization which is in Kapsowar is absent. You cannot see it on the ground!
Order, Mr. Kaino! You have made your point.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure the hon. Member that the Department of Veterinary Service, through the district veterinary officer, is providing the AI service. But on the private sector, the service provider at Kapsowar, Unitech Agrovet does and performs and average of 30 to 40 inseminations a month. We have the record, the private sector is there but I want to assure the hon. Member that as the Government, because it is a marginal area, we will provide this service and we will encourage the AI to---
Order, Mr. Duale! I thought he referred to a letter. You talked about a letter and he asked when the letter was sent. That is what I heard him ask you!
Which letter, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir?
Mr. Kaino, could you repeat the question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I asked the Assistant Minister because he said that has instructed the District Veterinary Officer in Marakwet District, Kapsowar, to continue or start the services. When was the letter sent to Kapsowar because there is nothing on the ground?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not say that we have written a letter. The district veterinary officers, as we speak today, are all in Nairobi. The instructions were given three months ago. On the ground I said, today, the District Veterinary Officer, Kapsowar, our office, has this service. Unitech Agrovet, a private service provider that does between 30 to 40 AI every month and has enough stock for the services.
Currently, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is an acute shortage of veterinary officers in the public sector in the country, leaving the exercise to be carried out by agents of the Government who are not supervised. My question is: In view of that, what assurance can the Assistant Minister give about the quality of service, given that the people who are giving that service are actually quacks and conmen?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very good that the hon. Member has raised the issue of insufficient staff in the Ministry. Last year, we recruited about 100 veterinary doctors and a number of community animal health workers. This
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his attempt to answer the Question, the Assistant Minister has talked about the superior semen that is being provided by private providers. The cost of that superior semen ranges between Kshs5,000 to Kshs10,000 per shot. Could the Assistant Minister assure us that he is going to borrow a leaf from the Minister for Agriculture and subsidize that semen cost? The poor farmers cannot afford it!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with the hon. Member. But with the commissioning of the new liquid nitrogen plant at Kabete three months ago, we have reduced the price from Kshs90 to Kshs70 per litre. If you compare with what private sector companies like BOC charge, with that new plant in place, we have reduced the cost of production for the Government. I can assure the hon. Member that our next stage is to regulate the agents. They are supposed to sell at Kshs145 per straw. The aspect that remains is to make sure that we set a price ceiling. If the Government subsidizes the price, then we must go ahead and make sure the technicians sell it at the price that we want.
On point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are no Government technicians providing those services in my constituency!
What is your point of order?
The point of order is that we do not have a Government technician providing those services.
That is not a point of order. What is your point of order?
He did not address the issue I raised about the cost of Kshs5,000 to Kshs10,000 per shot. Could he do that?
Mr. Assistant Minister, you have got the point.
I think I have tabulated how we have reduced the price per litre because of the new liquid nitrogen plant. We have tabulated the price and how we are going to control the 750 AI technicians certified by the Government. With the new liquid nitrogen plant that produces about 2,600 litres within 48 hours, I want to assure the hon. Member that it is our business to subsidize and control the prices for our members.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister confirm that the superior semen is available all over the country, including Siaya?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can confirm that in Siaya and other parts of the country, that superior semen for better production and better quality is available.
Last question, Mr. Kaino!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I am satisfied with the Assistant Ministerâs answer, except---
Mr. Kaino, if you are satisfied, there is no âexceptâ!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the answer. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir,
Next Question, Mr. Affey!
asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Local Government what plans the Nairobi City Council has to provide more land to the Muslim community for the establishment of cemeteries, considering that the existing ones are full.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. We have set aside two cemeteries for the Muslim community here in Nairobi; Kariokor and Langata. The Kariokor Cemetery got full in December, 2008. However, the area set aside for the Langata Cemetery is not yet full as alleged by the hon. Member. The existing Langata Cemetery which was established during the pre-independence period measures approximately 1.2 hectares. To date, 25 per cent of the Muslim cemetery consisting 0.3 of a hectare has been utilized, leaving approximately 0.9 of a hectare for use. It is further noted that the Ministry and the Nairobi City Council plans to acquire some land within the metropolitan area for additional Muslim cemetery use.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Assistant Minister for his attempt to answer the Question. But he has, apparently, not visited Langata Cemetery and he has no idea of how that cemetery has been utilized since it was provided to the Muslim community in the City.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Assistant Minister must also appreciate the circumstances of the different communities in this City because once a Muslim dies, that body must be disposed of within hours. In that case, in this City today, we have got between 11 and 15 people who die every day. That means they must be disposed of within hours of their death. The Assistant Minister has said that there are plans to acquire
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I must admit that I have not gone to check the information provided on the ground--- Statistically, if 0.3 hectares have been there for the last 40 to 45 years, I believe that 0.9 hectares would sufficiently suffice for the next two or three years, even if the Kariokor Cemetery is closed. So, substantively, I think the most important thing is the long term measures to get another space within the metropolitan area. However, we do appreciate the fact that within the centre of the Metropolis, there is no land and where there is land under the new City of Nairobi Masterplan, it will be in the Metropolis, which will be either towards Athi River or anywhere where there is red soil because of decomposition.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, cemeteries have been a contentious issue, looking at the fact that---
Ask your question!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister consider putting up more crematoriums, considering that the land in the City is not available?
Certainly, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I said, we are looking for land all around the Metropolis and once the plan for the new Metropolis and negotiations have been completed, we will provide that plan to the House.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the scarcity of land for cemeteries is not only unique in Nairobi City. In a place like Wamba Town in Samburu East, the Muslim Cemetery is also full. My question to the Assistant Minister is: What plans do you have to ensure that there is sufficient land for cemeteries?
He has aready answered that question. Please, ask a question that has not been asked. Is there any other question you would like to ask?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate that the Assistant Minister is looking for more land. However, acquisition of land is a long process. It is not done in one day. He said that the Langata Cemetery will not be full in the next one year or two years. Unless they start looking for the land right now, they will not be able to achieve their targets. Could he consider tasking the Nairobi City Council (NCC) to go ahead and look for a parcel of land immediately? They need to identify a parcel of land so that we know that those plans will come to fruition.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, a task force is already in place to seek land for the new cemetery. They are looking for the land. I am sure that within the next few months, we will identify the land and start the negotiation process.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of land for a cemetery is not only confined to the Muslims. Christians and other religions are undergoing the same problem. Could the Assistant Minister tell us how far he has gone with the scandal involving land that was being acquired by NCC in Athi River for purposes of a cemetery? Who was paid the money? How many people have been arrested for overcharging the NCC?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you realize, that is an issue that has already been referred to a Departmental Committee of this House. I believe that the Committee is addressing it.
You are right on that one, Mr. Nguyai.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I recall that when this matter was referred to the Departmental Committee, you were on the Chair. You directed clearly that they report back to us in three weeks time. Could you, please, guide us on when---
Order, Dr. Khalwale! In fact, I am giving you too much indulgence. This is a question that is totally unrelated to the one on the Order Paper. I have been allowing this to go on because the Assistant Minister has not complained. That issue will come up properly if you raise it at the expiry of the period that we set.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I alluded to the issue of land acquired in Athi River for purposes of a cemetery because of the pressure which seems to be coming from Members of Parliament and Kenyans at large.
I hear you, Mr. K. Kilonzo, but the matter was referred to a Departmental Committee of this House and a specific time period for the report was given. If you can ask for a progress report or something related to that issue, then I will allow you. What you are raising now is not relevant to the Question that has been asked now.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in that case, could the Assistant Minister tell us the alternative places they are looking for land?
He has answered that question. He said that the Ministry is looking for land within the metropolis.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to request the Assistant Minister, having learnt that they are in the process of acquiring more land within the metropolis, to visit Langata Cemetery, so that he can see for himself the burial site there. The site has no water.
Order, Mr. Affey! What is your question? If you want him to visit Langata Cemetery, ask him when he will do that!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when will the Assistant Minister visit Langata Cemetery? When will he provide water at the site so that people can have smooth rituals during burial ceremonies?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will consult with the hon. Member and we will find an appropriate date, hopefully, within this week to visit the place. We will get the NCC and Ministry officials to address the issues that have been raised.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Assistant Minister in order to mislead us by saying that the NCC is trying to acquire more land---
You are out of order, Mr. Mbugua. You do not rise on a point of order after a Question has been disposed of.
asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) what plans he has to upgrade Nyansiongo Hospital to a district hospital; and,
(b) when the Government will provide a vehicle for the hospital.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to answer.
Mr. Minister, the House is owed an explanation as to why you were not present when the Question was asked.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologize for coming late. As I was coming down to this place, some VIP was passing along Uhuru Highway and we were stopped from moving for about 20 minutes or so. It was a force majeure .
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Unless I do not understand the definition of a VIP, I thought the Minister himself is a VIP! Could he clarify who the VIP who stopped him from arriving here on time is?
Order, Mr. K. Kilonzo! Mr. Minister, just respond to the question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are some Members of Parliament who like to involve themselves in verbal verbosity.
(a) Kijauri or Nyansiongo Sub-district Hospital was gazetted in 2008 to serve the newly created Borabu District which is among the more than 150 new districts created since 2007. Many other facilities have similarly been designated as district hospitals for the new districts. To determine upgrading needs, the Ministry has just completed a survey of the designated district hospitals for the new districts and other existing hospitals. This is the baseline survey we have done in the Ministry of Medical Services to determine the difference between what exists and what ought to exist and, therefore, the gap that needs to be filled to make them completed.
The findings of this survey are now being compiled and will be used to mobilize resources with an aim of standardizing hospital infrastructure across the country. Upgrading of Kijauri also known as Nyansiongo Hospital will be given consideration within this framework alongside other designated district hospitals.
(b) Although Kijauri or Nyansiongo is gazetted as a sub-district hospital, it is currently operating as a dispensary. Owing to resource constraints, the Ministry is currently not able to allocate vehicles to facilities functioning below the levels of hospitals and without in-patients. Currently, Nyansiongo Hospital has neither in-patient facilities and in-patients themselves nor facilities that will require the presence of a doctor there.
A vehicle will, therefore, be allocated to the facility once it has been upgraded to an operational hospital.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for the answer he has given. However, his answer is general in nature in the sense that he has not indicated the specific time frame when this hospital will become a district hospital.
Order, Mr. Kioni and Maj- Gen. Nkaisery! Consult in low tones because the Chair would like to follow the proceedings.
Could the Minister be very specific as to when this hospital will be upgraded to the status of a district hospital?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when I was presenting the Ministryâs budget yesterday, I informed hon. Members that the Ministry has a shortfall of Kshs13 billion which it needs to implement all the projects that we have in plan. In that regard, upgrading Nyansiongo to a district hospital will suffer this consequence. Unless the Ministry gets enough resources to ensure that upgrading, not only of Nyansiongo Hospital, but all hospitals that have been upgraded to district hospitals, be in keeping with the new districts, it will be very difficult for the Ministry to do so. We need the support of the House. We may request hon. Members to use some CDF resources to put some theatres in their upgraded facilities, so that we can post surgeons there. It will be very difficult for a surgeon to be posted to a facility where there is no theatre. So, Nyansiongo Hospital suffers the same problem. I would like to appeal to the Member of Parliament that I am not able to state when because that depends on when resources are available to do so.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Minister for that answer, but my question is very specific. We, as Parliamentarians, have used a lot of Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money to build dispensaries and even equip them. The problem is the medical personnel. In my constituency of Mutitu, for instance, I have Chuluni Dispensary, among many others; i have over 15 dispensaries, which are complete and equipped. They are only waiting for medical staff. What plans does the Minister have to provide medical staff to those dispensaries?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I also have nine dispensaries in my own constituency, which suffer the same fate. Currently, we have hired 1,600 medical personnel to be posted to those facilities. These are not enough. We are going to hire another 1,600 medical personnel this year. Last year, we did not post the medical personnel in good time because the hiring process is being done by the Public Service Commission (PSC), which is a very slow process. With the intervention of the Right Honourable Raila Amolo Odinga, the Prime Minister, the PSC has now agreed to cede the hiring process to the two Ministries, so that the process can be faster and the facilities can be provided with personnel in good time. So, I promise that the process of hiring medical personnel is now under way. I hope that before too long, his dispensaries and mine will have the personnel required.
Last question, Mr. Ombui!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to indicate how much he has allocated for Nyansiongo Sub-District Hospital in the current financial year.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have those figures, although I do not have them here now. I promise that I can provide them to the
Next Question, Mr. Mbai!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I ask the Question for the second time, I would like to bring it to your notice that I have not received the written answer.
Minister for Regional Development Authorities, have you provided the hon. Member with the written answer?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I got this Question yesterday, but I have an answer.
No! No! The hon. Member is entitled to a written answer before you rise to answer the Question on the Floor of the House. Have you provided him with an answer?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not think he has an answer, because---
Mr. Mbai, would you like the Question answered without the written answer, or would you like to have the written answer first?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Question for my constituency. I would like to have the written answer.
Mr. Minister, you shall provide the hon. Member with the written answer and be prepared to answer this Question. When will you answer the Question?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will get for him a copy of the written answer. The Question is so detailed. It needed a bit of time although it came by Private Notice. However, I am prepared to give him an answer.
He is entitled to a written answer. He demands it. When can you answer the Question after providing him with the written answer today? Can you do it tomorrow?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can even give him the written answer now, but I can answer the Question tomorrow.
Very well! Give him the written answer now, so that he can ask supplementary questions tomorrow.
REPORT ON TARDAâS ACQUISITION OF MASINGA DAM LAND
Next Question, Mr. Benedict Gunda!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to apologise for not asking this Question at the time it was supposed to be asked.
asked the Minister for Education:- (a) why he had been underpaying Mr. Jembe Ngala Emmanuel (TSC No.077284) from February, 1995, till June, 2007, when he retired; and, (b) whether he could confirm when the underpaid amount as well as his pension dues will be paid.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
Mr. Assistant Minister, the House is entitled to know where you were when the Question came up the first time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was here. It is the Questioner who was not here. He even apologised.
Order, Prof. Olweny! I apologise to you. It was, indeed, the Questioner who was not in the House.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I asked the Question, I apologised.
Very well! Proceed, Prof. Olweny.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Mr. Jembe Ngala Emmanuel, who retired from the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) with effect from 1st September, 2007 was underpaid as a result of wrong conversion during the 1994 salary review. The anomaly was discovered while his pension was being processed. (b) The underpayment has been corrected and his salary arrears amounting to Kshs39,690.60 have been paid through Cheque No.157330, which has been delivered to Kilifi Teachers Sacco, Account No.8577284. His pension is also being processed.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Assistant Minister for that answer. Could he tell the House when this cheque was sent, and when the pension will be processed? This matter has been outstanding for a very long time, and this person has been shuttling between his home and the TSC Headquarters for a long time.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the actual date on which the cheque was delivered, but the cheque has been delivered to Kilifi Teachers Sacco. I have given the cheque number and the account number. So, Mr. Jembe Ngala Emmanuel can go and check with the Sacco. I have also said that his pension is being processed and it will be forwarded to the Director of Pensions for payment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Musila brought a Bill to this House, which was passed. That law provides that pension should be paid on time upon oneâs retirement, or an employee should be retained in service until his pension is ready, but the TSC has persistently delayed in paying teachers their dues upon retirement. What is the Assistant Minister doing to ensure that the TSC complies with the law on paying teachers on time upon retirement, when they have provided all the necessary documentation?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, firstly, when teachers retire, sometimes they delay in forwarding the relevant papers to the TSC, so that their pension can be processed. Secondly, once we have processed oneâs pension, the TSC does not pay it. It is the Director of Pensions who pays pensions. So, we forward the papers to the Treasury. That is where they lie. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House that when teachers retire, they do not provide papers on time?
Order, hon. Member. He did not say they not. He said there are delays.
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Two years before their retirement age they are asked to provide this information. Is he in order?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am talking out of experience as the MP for Muhoroni Constituency. Several teachers have approached me to help them get their pension processed. When I go to the TSC, I am told such and such a paper is not there. I then go back to the teachers. They provide those papers. Immediately I submit those papers to the TSC, the pension papers are processed and delivered to the Treasury. I am speaking out of my own experience.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, given that teachers are a very important component in the Ministry of Education, could the Ministry have a desk with personnel to assist teachers in processing their pension and follow up with the Pensions Department?
That we have and it has been there for a long time.
Next Question, Mr. Nyamai. It appears the Question by Mr. Nyamai was deferred.
Mr. Gumo, it has just been pointed out to me that tomorrow being a Supply day, you may not get an opportunity to answer this Question. So I am deferring it to next Wednesday.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Ministerial Statement from the Ministry of Lands on Settlement of squatters on Solio
Anybody from the Front Bench who undertakes to give that information?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I undertake to inform the Minister.
When can he bring that Statement to the House?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, next week on Wednesday.
Is that okay Mr. Wamalwa?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Nyamweya, had you indicated that you were to ask for a Ministerial Statement? I do not recall you informing the Chair that you want to request for a Ministerial Statement?
I did not do so, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Then you may not ask for that Ministerial Statement. You know the rules. You may request for a Ministerial Statement if you have cleared with the Chair or the Clerk of the House beforehand, as is common practice. That is the rule we have already established.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to seek a Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources. I stand here with a lot of humility to seek this Statement from the Minister. I want him to tell this House when his Ministry will embark on resettling the people who are occupying the Mau Forest. This is a matter of urgency to save this nation from a catastrophe.
I understand from the Clerk- At-the Table that that issue will be addressed by the Prime Minister this afternoon. So, you can hold your horses and take up the issue this afternoon.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this very important Motion by Mr. Kioni. There is no legal basis for the requirement that certain people of certain height should not serve in certain positions in our armed forces in the police. The specific provision that for one to join the armed forces, one should have a height of 5ft 9â; for women it should be 5ft 3â and the Administration Police have similar provisions--- Our Constitution provides that there should be no form of discrimination. Under no circumstances whatsoever, should discrimination of any kind is allowed in this country whether it is on the basis of race, religion, gender or physical appearance. We are talking about a physical endowment by a person, whether he be born tall or short, whatever race or tribe. It will be a form of discrimination to say that if you are born in this manner, then you are not allowed to be in this particular place. Section 82 of our Constitution, expressly provides that there shall be no discrimination of any kind. No person shall be treated in a discriminatory manner by a person acting by virtue of any written law or in the performance of the functions of the public office or authority. In this particular provision under Section 82, discriminatory means affording different treatment to different persons attributable wholly or mainly, to their respective descriptions by race, tribe, place of origin, residence, local connections, political opinions, colour, creed or sex. Our Constitution expressly provides that discrimination of any kind shall not be allowed. Looking at what requirements one has to meet, it is presumed that persons of a certain height have certain qualities and, therefore, the kingdom of heaven is open to them who only were born with a certain height.
Hon. Members, the Chair is informed that there is an amendment that is to be brought to this Motion. Please, Mr. Ojode, move that amendment so that we can dispose of it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I give the Governmentâs response, I would want to move an amendment to this Motion. We have agreed with the Mover of the Motion. I beg to move that the Motion be amended by deleting all the words appearing after the word âotherâ in the last line and inserting therein, the following words, ârequirements which include basic education background, physical and mental fitness among othersâ. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the House agrees with me, the Motion as amended, will read as follows:- THAT, aware that in recruiting officers for the disciplined forces, the following height requirements apply: Armed Forces â 5ft 3â (both men and women), Policemen - 5ft 9â; Policewomen â 5ft 3â; Administration Policemen â 5ft 8â, Administration Policewomen â 5ft 3â and concerned that this requirement is discriminative and is not within any legal framework; this House urges the Government to dispense with this requirement in order to allow for equitable recruitment of all Kenyans who meet other requirements which include basic education background, physical and mental fitness amongst others.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason why I want an amendment to be done is because first, we must have a disciplined force. There are instances where you
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker Sir. I beg to second the amendment to this important Motion which is obviously of extreme importance, particularly to individuals who are not favoured in terms of height, including myself. Whereas we know that height in itself is a requirement in the recruitment of officers into the Armed Forces is totally unconstitutional and discriminatory and a fact that even though nobody chooses the height that they are given, we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord. I see the need to bring in this amendment because recruitment to the Armed Forces, it is competitive. Due to this, it is necessary that we ensure that we have people who have the mental capacity to execute the discipline that is required. We also need to have people who have the physical ability to move from one level to the other while executing their duties. It is also important to have people who are able to understand and are healthy mentally. In that sense, it is important to have that amendment. This amendment is non-discriminatory because of the fact that these people need to deliver those services. In support of this, I must add the fact that it is a very important Motion. I am particularly happy that hon. Kioni was able to bring it up, more so because as Kenyans, we need to see ourselves as people who have a role to play. I look at where we have come from, particularly in the last two years, and see that it is the small differences that bring hatred between communities and cause a country to disintegrate. A few months ago, I happened to visit Rwanda and you know the pain and experience that Rwanda went through in 1994. One of the things that brought the hatred was historical factors brought by colonial masters where brothers and sisters who spoke
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Commandant of Administration Police is 5.8 feet. So, he falls under the current requirements. That was a point of correction.
Thank you for the correction. The reason why I went for politics is because I would have desired to become the Commandant of Administration Police but I realized that I had been discriminated against in that instance. With those few remarks, I support the Motion as amended.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Motion. I stand to oppose the Motion.
Order, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry. There is an amendment on the Floor of the House. We are discussing the amendment. We want to dispose of that amendment. If you want to go back to the original Motion, please wait until we dispose of the amendment.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the amendments. It is not height, per se, that makes any officer suitable for service in the disciplined officers. It is more the physical and mental fitness to do the job and commitment to work. So, as far as the Government is concerned, the former requirement of height is not serving any useful purpose. It was largely there because the officers were seen as members of the armed forces. The emphasis was on the forces and it was assumed that the body mass would give the forces. They would treat Africans with all the force that was required at that time. But now, there is a combination of force and service which does not go with height alone. When we say physical fitness, Members should not hope that the acceptance of this Motion will mean that anybody can be picked and placed in the Armed Forces.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of the fact that the amendment is very clear and is in tandem with what is expected today, I wish to request you to put the question of the amendment, so that we can continue debating the main Motion.
Hon. Members, I agree that this is a small amendment and we should dwell on the main Motion. Therefore, I now wish to put the question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to oppose the Motion as amended. I have the following reasons:- We have to stop looking at issues using the legal precincts. The armed forces and the Police Force have their own regulations. It is just like this House with its own Standing Orders. It is not discriminatory that the Military, the Police or the Administration Police recruit officers based on height. They use certain criteria. For example, if you recruit a mbilikimo because he is physically and mentally fit and you give him a machine gun, which is longer than him, how can he carry it to defend the country? Assuming that you want to give him the job of a driver of a big truck, how can he reach the gears and the clutch when he is a 4 feet fellow who cannot get to the basic instruments? There is something---
Mr. Nguyai): On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Member in order to mislead the House that certain abilities are for certain individuals? I want to inform him that a mbilikimo can go through certain barriers where a big person cannot fit. Is he in order to mislead this House?
Mr. Mungatana): That is a point of argument. It is not a point of order.
Mr. Temporary, Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is a point of argument. We are talking about officers who are supposed to provide security. If a police officer who is below 4 feet is trying to control a crowd that is moving along a street, how can the crowd identity that police officer? There is something in the Military called Full Service Marching Order
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the Assistant Minister in order to imply that hon. Kioni is wrong in bringing this Motion as if the army is beyond the control of this Parliament through legislation, even on issues of height and others? It is still within our rights to do it and we will do it.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not saying that it is not in order for an hon. Member to bring a Motion. What I am saying is that we must be careful. We should bring Motions which are good for this nation. I am not saying that this Motion is bad, but it was framed in a bad way. This is because it is not based on the terms and conditions of service of the concerned security organ of this country.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what would stop an hon. Member of this House from bringing a Motion tomorrow based on ethnicity and saying that because we passed a Motion on height, we want people to be recruited based on their population? How do we expect such a Motion to continue?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think the Assistant Minister is going to extremes. Is he in order not to consider that there must be reasonableness in doing all these things? I think he is just going into extremes only. The Motion does not even talk about four feet. I think he is out of order!
Hon. Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, I need to say that every Motion, before it comes to the Floor of the House, must get the Speakerâs approval. The way you are going - ethnicity and everything â it will, definitely, not come to the House. So, pleases, stick to the arguments that you need to stick to.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you may not be the Speaker at that time. But what I am saying is that there is no height limit downwards. There is a limit on height upwards. That is what the Motion is denying. So, you can even go to one foot according to this Motion. That is the argument. First of all, the police force is preventive. You must be seen to be able to enforce the law. If you are four feet tall, you cannot arrest somebody who is seven feet tall on your own.
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Does Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry want to be informed?
Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. He is a colleague and I like his information. He could be of help to his colleagues.
Please, do so.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the Assistant Minister, who is a friend of mine, that we are not the only âtallâ nation in the world. Today, we have very advanced technology that manufactures all kinds of armed equipment. This question of height was there many years ago, at Independence, when guns were so long and big. There are some nations, which I will not mention, which recruit people who are less than five feet tall into the army. Again, this issue should even cover the arms. We are discriminating people with even 270 degrees folded arms. They are discriminated against because they do not have straight arms. We have nations with people with such arms and they are still in the army. We need to look into this issue properly. Every issue has mandate to be debated on. Since we are the lawmakers, we can come here and debate on any issue that affects the recruitment into the army.
Eng. Rege, please, do not go into arguments! Proceed, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry!
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in fact, he wanted to make his own contribution, but it is okay. I know that there is technology, but we cannot bring examples of other countries. This is Kenya. We have not even finished recruiting the very tall. We have a reservoir. So, we are not saying that because now we have finished the reservoir, we have to go down. We should not interfere with the regulations of the Armed Forces, Police Force and Administration Police. Let us continue with the current recruitment qualifications until we are left with short fellows and then we can consider them. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I oppose.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion because some of the rules and regulations that were laid down, in very good faith, have been used to discriminate against our own people. In fact, the major source of corruption in the recruitment into the Armed Forces and police force is because of trying to follow these guidelines. I know of very many officers of the Armed Forces and Administration Police who are shorter than this requirement. The main reason is that some of them are not even recruited in the field. They are recruited at the head office and then the names are just given out there. So, there is no point in pretending. As intelligent and knowledgeable people, when we set out guidelines, we must also be reasonable. You cannot just say that you are going to pick somebody who is not able to carry a gun. The hon. Member has said that we may even recruit somebody who cannot carry a weight, but that does not depend on height. We have talked about technology.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion as amended. I have also listened to the contribution by my colleague, Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, who has left. It appears like he has really misunderstood the substance of this Motion. It is simply seeking to remove height as a criteria for recruitment into the Army. It has replaced that quite clearly with physical fitness. If there are any other inadequacies that need to be addressed that are height related, they would be focused onto through the physical fitness. But more importantly, this Motion seeks to buttress the requirement for an all- rounded criteria for our recruitment into our Armed Forces. The criteria of height are really not clear. There are really no scientific bases for attributing a certain height to the criteria for eligibility into the army. Historically, we know that it was the colonialists who came up with these criteria. Among the criteria they did not bother about was education. Their aim was to bring in tall people as has been pointed out, not only to intimidate the population, but to also make sure that they do not even have educational background. Their aim obviously was to mobilise physical force against the local population. It is very unfortunate that over 40 years after Independence, we still retain this archaic legislation in our books whose aim was to oppress and suppress the local people.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is also obvious that in their policy of divide and rule, the colonialists were targeting certain communities requiring them to fill up the army to create separation and stereotype among communities by defining who are eligible for army and who are not. The Kenyan Government should move away from those kinds of discriminative practices. It should open up the army to all eligible Kenyans. It should strive to ensure that there is professionalism not only in the recruitment, but also in the day today running of the armed forces.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion as amended.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion is timely. It has come at a time when we, as a country, are facing a lot of challenges. We have social, economic and political challenges. Above all, we have a problem of unemployment in this country. So, looking at it against that background of unemployment, this is a very timely Motion.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, since Independence, it is about 46 years ago. What we are looking at today are mere rules and regulations that helped to manage the armed forces. However, they do not have any legal or support of any kind. I, therefore, want to say that I support the Motion that these requirements be done away with.
If you see the kind of rigorous exercise our young men and women go through during recruitment of the armed forces, one will not stop to wonder. Sometimes apart from the height, which I will address later, our youth are subjected to a lot of unfair treatment. They are sometimes undressed in the open which is in itself an abuse to human dignity. Those youth also run many kilometres in the sun. But even after completing those exercises, they are not assured of employment. Some youth faint in the field. These are some of the challenges we, as a country, have undergone. We have undergone a lot of changes in all sectors of this country. It is time we accepted reforms in the armed forces. The height criterion is one of the issues to be looked into. We amended the Motion to include education which is agreeable. Mental fitness is also agreeable. But this issue of height is a challenge that we must get rid of. Why should a Kenyan who has met all other requirements be left out? The hon. Assistant Minister who opposed the Motion has just walked out. I wonder why he walked out because he should have stayed on. Why should a Kenyan who meets all other requirements such academic and physical fitness is denied a chance, especially this time when we are facing unemployment in this country? It has been said here and I wish to repeat: Who said that tall soldiers are better than short soldiers, the world over? This is a requirement that we must get rid of. I wish to say that this requirement is one of those requirements which quite often can be misused by those who do the recruitment. It is one of those requirements that sometimes lead to corruption which is rampant in our recruitment exercises in this country. So, this is something that we must get rid of. We have talked of favouritism and nepotism in the military. As I stand here, if a census is done today of our military and where they come from, it is a fact that some districts command more numbers than other districts. Some regions command more
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think this matter has been deliberated on and it is clear that most hon. Members in this House support the Motion. Would I be in order to request that you call upon the Mover to reply?
We can give a chance to one more hon. Member and then we can call upon the Mover to reply.
Proceed and finish your contribution, Mr. ole Lankas.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that there should be fairness in the recruitment into the military. When they say that they are going to recruit from the NYS that will open another avenue for corruption, unfairness and unequal distribution of human resource that is so much required. There is the element of medical test that some of these people go through. This is another area that needs to be looked into because it is at that stage that we see a lot of unfairness. That is where corruption is exercised. When officers go through the medical test, a medical officer can write anything on the paper. Therefore, it is open to abuse. I wish to reiterate that we must address that issue.
Finally, as I support this Motion, I would like to say that we cannot have a super race in the military. We do not have one in Kenya. So, a situation where all these requirements are used to discriminate against Kenyans is unfair.
With those few remarks, I support the Motion.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think that the proposal for the Mover be called upon to reply has not been put to the House and I think it has been overtaken by events. So, may I do my presentation?
No, you may not. Let me put the Question.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank hon. Members who have contributed to this Motion and also to those who have opposed it. Essentially, we have had virtually all hon. Members supporting this Motion. I want to point out two things: First, it has come out very clearly from the presenters or debaters that the issue of height as a requirement in the armed forces has no merit in our time. There are many other issues that need to be looked into. We have to look at the loopholes that have been used by the recruiting officers for purposes of corruption. We also have to look at the amount of discretion that we have given to those people who go in the field. It has also been abused. By and large, the whole exercise is
Who was on the Floor?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is my Motion. Last week on Wednesday, I had just read out the Motion and then time elapsed. The purpose of this Motion is actually for us as a country to work on how we can augment electricity supply to the nation.
Mr. Chanzu, I would like to inform you that you have 18 minutes to go.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The purpose is actually for us to augment the supply of electricity in the country. I am aware that the
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to second this very important Motion. Basically, you will realize that because of the rigidness of our Government officers, we have not been able to embrace change. In 2000, China had a very big problem with regard to generation of electricity. They had a very big deficit and in order for them to get power, they introduced small hydro-electric power stations to support their shortfall. As a developing country, they commissioned a study of the rivers they had and all areas where power was not accessible, they set up those small hydro- power generating components which helped that country. I think that is the way this country should go. We have a lot of problems in terms of pollution by the fossil power agents. So, in order for this country to develop and in order for this country to be environmental friendly, we must embrace these small hydro-power stations. You realize that the rivers we have are capable of producing between 100 and 2000 watts and the amount of money which is needed to put up these projects is US$1,000 to US$20,000. So, even co-operatives will go a long way towards helping the people in the rural areas to set up these plants.
The electricity requirements in this country are growing every day and we need to extend the requirement to the rural areas. The Rural Electrification Programme (REP) has not been able to connect people in the rural areas because mainly of funding and probably
To support or to second?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Mr. Assistant Minister, is the Ministry responding to this Motion?
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir---
I am just seeking to know whether you will be responding officially to the Motion.
I will, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Proceed, Mr. Kaino.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me, in the first place, thank the Mover of this Motion for bringing this very, very important Motion to this House.
Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, right from the beginning, to me, I think the priorities have not been set out properly. Hydro-power generation in this country would have been the first thing to be done as a priority, along with other things. When you see the hydro-power generating facilities that we have in this country, there are other falls
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Energy is very important to this country. Without it, we will not industrialize or achieve the Vision 2030. The first important thing that this country has to do is to ensure that we generate enough energy to be able to run our activities, particularly the industries. We need energy down in our rural areas if we really have to create employment opportunities. We have a lot of potential to produce energy in this country. The opportunities are diverse. They include solar energy, wind power, biogas and nuclear power which we need to develop. We need to explore the possibility of having nuclear energy, so that we can become self-reliant in energy provision.
As regards the small hydro-power generation plants, studies that have been undertaken in the country clearly show that we have so many rivers which have a lot of potential for generation of power. It is important that our Government gives priority to this area so that we can generate power from small rivers. Western Kenya has so many rivers which can be used in the production of hydro-power. Unfortunately, these rivers have not been harnessed. I would like to give an example of the Webuye Falls. These falls have the potential of generating power, but nothing has been done. Even the Pan Paper Mills closed down because of the energy costs that it was incurring and yet just next to it are the Webuye Falls. So, the issue of developing small hydro-power stations on our rivers should be considered. This will enhance and supplement the power needs that are required particularly in the rural areas. If these plants are established, they will encourage the development of small cottage industries that will create various opportunities for our youth and women.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, if we create small hydro-power stations on these rivers, this will act as an incentive for people to consider conservation of the rivers. As of now, the water catchment areas have been destroyed because of various reasons. However, establishment of hydro-power stations along these rivers will be an incentive enough for people to conserve the rivers.
I wish to support this Motion and urge my colleagues to do the same, so that the Government can take up this matter and establish hydro-power stations along the rivers. In Emuhaya District, we have River Esaba and River Jordan which have a lot of potential. Studies have been done on these rivers and it has been revealed that we could have small hydro-power stations along the rivers. The studies are available. If this Motion is passed, these studies should be considered for implementation.
With those few remarks, I beg to support the Motion.
Mr. Magerer, I hope you have realized that you are not in the right place.
I oblige, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Thank you, for giving me this opportunity to support this very important Motion. First and foremost, I would like to congratulate my colleague, hon. Chanzu, for bringing this Motion to the House.
We have benefitted a lot from hydro-power generation in this country. It is important that the hon. Member is seeking the passage of this Motion, so that the Government is compelled to enlist the production of small hydro-power plants in order to boost the generation of power within our grid.
We have seen the importance of our rivers. Just the other day, the President of this Republic was commissioning a very important project at Sondu-Miriu. It is mega project that has cost about Kshs19 billion. We have smaller projects which we can do and which we can help boost the power generation in this country. For example, where I come from, there is River Kipchorian which is one of the main tributaries of River Nyando. It has so many waterfalls in- between. Along that river, there are the Rusikebe Waterfalls in Londiani. Along the river course all the way to Muhoroni, there is a big potential we can actually tap. We could channel the waters of this river in the same way other hydro- power projects have been done and allow the water to continue flowing. We will lose nothing, but gain everything in terms of more megawatts in our national grid.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, of concern though is the fact that previously, the Government has been able to utilize hydro-power by generating it from a certain area. However, they have not been able to benefit the communities around immediately. That is a very serious concern because it is now difficult to tell people that they have important resources like rivers and then generate electricity from those rivers and take it elsewhere. You know very well that homesteads in Turkwel may not be enjoying the electricity that is generated from thereabout. We want to urge the Government that as we pass this Motion, the neighbourhood of hydro-power generation plants be allowed to enjoy the benefits of electricity.
We cannot keep on relying so much on hydro-power alone. We are faced with very serious problem of drought and water shortage. It will be in order for the Ministry to come up with other methods of generating power. We have enough wind resource which we could use to generate electricity. We can also harness solar energy. Relying on hydro- power alone is not going to be sustainable in terms of meeting the demands of this country. I would like to urge the Ministry to explore other means. I would like to congratulate the same Ministry for venturing into geothermal energy production. However, we have not seen so much in terms of wind energy and solar energy generation.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those many remarks, I support the Motion. I would like to urge my colleagues that we pass this Motion so that we can generate smaller units of power that will enable Kenyans to access electricity from wherever they are.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to also support the Motion.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I stand to support the Motion and congratulate my brother, hon. Yusuf Chanzu, for bringing the Motion. First, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate the Government for finally having the Sondu Miriu Hydro-Electric Power Plant commissioned. It was a great day. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we want to get small electricity generating plants. They have been done in many places, but that has to be linked to the environment. Unfortunately, the environment sometimes generates unnecessary debates, because we are unable to secure the water towers of this country. I do not want to dwell on the issue
I now call upon the Minister to respond.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to respond to the Motion. I want to say from the outset that as a Ministry, we support this Motion. I say so, because, as I speak my Minister is at the Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA), meeting the 57 tea factories to discuss the way forward in establishing small hydro-power stations to assist them. Therefore, it is, indeed, desirous for the Ministry to promote renewable energy technologies. In this regard, we are considering prioritising the setting up of small hydro- electric power projects. For so many years, the Ministryâs focus was on major hydro- electric power projects such as Turkwel Gorge, Masinga and Sondu Miriu, which, in essence, are very expensive. For instance, the newly commissioned Sondu Miriu Project cost the Government about Kshs15 billion, and it generates about 60 megawatts. Therefore, the establishment of small hydro-electric power plants will come in handy. In this regard, we have established feeding tariff, whereby we invite private investors to either partner with KenGen or the Ministry, do it on their own, or partner with local authorities, so that they can establish small hydro-electric plants and other small electric generation plants like those that use wind, et cetera . Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have given them feeding tariffs of between zero and 50 megawatts. If you can develop it, you sign an agreement of 20-25 years with the Kenya Power and Lighting Company for the supply. For instance, the Mumias Sugar Company plant, for 21 megawatts it uses biogas. It is a joint project between the Ministry and Mumias Sugar Company; it will go a long way in assisting this country, in the sense that our factories will reduce the cost of energy to them.
Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will be very brief. I want to support this Motion by Mr. Chanzu which gives a very tall vision. Specifically, it focuses on the Western Belt. I had the opportunity to visit that area with him and other friends. It is true
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion before the House. I want to congratulate my colleague, Mr. Chanzu, for bringing up this important Motion. As we know, power is life and power is civilization. When I look at the aspirations of Vision 2030, sometimes I wonder how we are going to achieve that with a paltry 1,000 megawatts, which in some countries is not even enough to light up one town.
On a point of information, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Do you need any information?
Not from him!
You run the risk of losing what he would have given you because the Minister had already informed the House. There being no other Member wishing to contribute, I would like to call upon the Mover to respond. Hon. Chanzu!
Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Members who have contributed and supported this Motion because this is a Motion for posterity. Hon. Members are very understanding because we must move forward. I am very happy that out of the contributions--- When you are preparing to present a Motion, you may be looking at one aspect. However the statistics hon. Members have given today will help this country, particularly in view of the fact that Mr. Keter was here listening and taking notes. He has also given us a very good indication about what should have happened in this country 20 or 30 years ago, the business of privatization or using a combined strategy to generate power. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue that has just been raised by Eng. Gumbo is very serious. I am sorry to say that from my own experience in the Ministry of Energy, when I was an Assistant Minister - I do not know what is going on there now - but this borders on very serious corruption where we had the same people in the Ministry going to set up Independent Power Producers (IPPs). That is why power is very expensive to the economy--- I think he wanted to respond to that but we would like him to come here, in his own right and make a comprehensive Ministerial Statement on the specific issues that have been raised by Eng. Gumbo because that is what is making it expensive. This schemes we are going into like geothermal, are very heavy investments. I think it is good for the Assistant Minister to relook into this and see how we can diversify. We should also have a seminar or a workshop at the KIA for the small tea companies to tell us how they can supply more power to the economy. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the other thing that has come out very clearly is how our Ministries should work together. We had a meeting with one of the Ministers at the Public Investments Committee meeting and he told us that if he can give an answer that is specific to what he has been asked, he does not care what the other Ministries do. We then asked him whether there was no collective responsibility. Is there no way that you can consult your own colleagues to know what he is doing and see if you can work hand in hand? I would like to encourage the working together that has been suggested here between the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Water and Irrigation and the Ministry of Regional Development Authorities. The reason why we are asking for this is because we want the regional bodies to function. I know, for example, that the Lake Basin Development Authority was trying to establish a number of schemes within the Lake Basin up to Western Province where people have come up with small schemes of
Hon. Members, it is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House, therefore, stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 12.30 p.m.