Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Minister of State for Defence the following Question by Private Notice.

(a) Could the Minister confirm that Sudanese solders are currently occupying parts of Kenya territory and explain the circumstances under which they recently stopped the Minister for Immigration and Registration of Persons from accessing the Kenya border with Sudan?

(b) What urgent measures is the Minister taking to ensure the Sudanese soldiers vacate the Nadapal border point, which is one kilometre into Kenya territory?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request that the Question be answered on the second round.

Dr. Eseli, we will come back to that Question.

asked the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance:-

(a) what became of the country’s entitlement in the defunct East African Community (EAC) as well as the terminal dues of the Kenyan employees in the Community;

(b) how much the British Government paid as terminal benefits for Kenyans working for the defunct Community;

(c) who the recipients are, amount paid and dates of payment to all former employees of the Corporations of the defunct EAC, among them the East African Harbours and Cargo Handling Services, the East African External Communications, the East African General Funds Services, the East African Customs, the East Africa Railways, the East African Airways, the East African Harbour and the East African Post and Telecommunications; and,

(d) what medium is used to communicate to all the former employees or their beneficiaries about the payment of their terminal dues.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, I beg to reply.

(a) Kenya’s entitlement in the defunct EAC is provided for in the East African Community Mediation Agreement Act, Cap.4 of the Laws of Kenya. The Act stipulated how the assets and liabilities of EAC were to be divided between the three countries, and how the employees of EAC were to be compensated for their service. Kenyan officers who served under the Community were given two options with regard to their terminal dues, namely:-

(i) To retire from the EAC on the re-organization or abolition of service and be paid their benefits immediately; or,

(ii) To join the Kenyan Government and State corporations and be paid their benefits on retirement at normal retirement age of 55 years.

Officers who opted to retire immediately upon the dissolution of EAC were paid their retirement benefits on 30th June, 1977. Those who took the second option continue to be paid their retirement benefits in full from the date they joined the EAC to the date of retirement from the Kenyan Government or State corporations. In addition, some members who had contributed to the East African Provident Fund and the National Social Security Fund are paid as they leave service based on their contribution records, which are extracted from the Arusha, EAC Registry for the purpose.

(b) The British Government paid £21,841,427 as terminal benefits for Kenyans who worked in the defunct EAC. I assure this House that the money was paid and continuous to be paid to the deserving former employees of EAC. The money was paid as per agreed division to the three Governments of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania. The Government of Kenya received 42 per cent of the money, which is held in a deposit account at the Treasury, entitled the East African Community Fund. The balance in the Fund as at 31st May, 2009, was Kshs488,931,501.65. (c) With regard to part “c” of the Question, I hereby wish to table two schedules that clearly indicate the recipients, the amount paid and the date of payment for the officers who were absorbed into the Kenyan Government Civil Service, and those who did not opt to join the Civil Service or whose offices were abolished.

(d) All ex-EAC employees who forwarded their claims were paid their benefits in full, and they were informed of those payments through their respective pay points that they provided. They were also issued with advice letters detailing them the amount of gratuity and accrued monthly arrears.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I wish to thank the Assistant Minister. For the first time in this Ministry, after 25 years, he has acknowledged that they received ÂŁ21,841,427. However, he has contradicted himself several times in his answer. In Part (a) of his answer, the second paragraph, he has said that officers who opted to retire immediately upon the dissolution of the EAC were paid their retirement benefits as at 30th June, 1977. That is not possible because the amount which he has mentioned was received by the Government in 1984. In Part (b) in the second paragraph,

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, it is not a contradiction. In 1977, that is when the retirement benefits were calculated. The officers might have probably been paid later, but the calculations were done in 1977. The criterion which was used to pay the retirement benefits - and that is the reason why there is a balance--- I will probably investigate further. The reason is that payments were made in British Pound Sterling and that currency has appreciated dramatically. Probably, there are a few others who have not been paid. However, there will still be a balance because in 1977, the Sterling Pound was at Kshs21.

Order! Assistant Minister, you cannot, in an answer to a Question, say “probably”. If you are giving an answer, you must be able to give an answer.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that figure is affected by the exchange rate fluctuations.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, many workers of the defunct EAC were from the Coast. Many of them are old people who have now retired. I am concerned about the Kshs488 million that is still remaining at the Treasury. There is a report that was circulated and it showed that over Kshs2 billion remains for retirees or people who need to claim money from the Treasury or the National Social Security Fund (NSSF), and are not able to access the money. What is the Assistant Minister doing, pro-actively, to get to those people, so that they can get that money, instead of keeping it at the Treasury?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that we have substantial funds not only in the EAC, but also in other retirement funds that are in the suspense account because we cannot find the beneficiaries. We will try and use all the channels available, even if it means advertising in the newspapers. We will also use the administrative process. I would also urge anybody who is aware of people who have not been paid to quickly come forward, and we will expedite their payments.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a group of employees who the Minister has forgotten to mention. Those are the employees of the former East African Airways who opted to join the new Kenya Airways as new employees. Their terminal benefits including the loss of job payment and provident fund was left with the Government. In 1984, the ground agents of Britain paid Kshs32 billion to Kenya, Tanzania and Uganda. This money was put under the control of the East African Community. Tanzania went ahead and paid her people. Mr. Kimunya sent a team to Arusha to find out how Tanzania had paid the former East African Airways staff. They found that the Tanzanians had been paid Kshs17.53 million as compound interest. Kimunya decided that the same may apply to Kenya. When will the Assistant Minister implement the decision of Mr. Kimunya that these people who worked formerly with the East African Airways are paid, including my brother Muteshi Ayisi Mulema and my cousin Murema?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, obviously that is additional information. The majority of the ex-East African Airways employees were paid their terminal benefits. Continuation benefits were accrued and paid as they continued to retire. With this additional information, I will provide the specifics.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of delayed or non- payment of dues to ex-staff of the East African Community is causing a lot of concern to a lot of people. My learned friend, Mr. .Mungatana, could be right in saying that many of those ex-employees come from the Coast---

Order, Mr. Olago! I want you to ask the question.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we move towards the East African Federation, we must also be prepared for the worst in the event that the community breaks up once more. Bearing that in mind, what measures has Ministry put in place to ensure that this predicament does not befall us again in the event that the community does not succeed?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I must state categorically that the majority of payments have been made. Even though those isolated cases do exist, we will deal with them item by item. More importantly, I think we have to be very optimistic that as we move towards the integration of a new region, we will provide, obviously, clauses that provide for the breakup. However, we should be optimistic that we will be able to achieve our objective of a fully integrated region that does not break up.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister explain to this House how come that in Tanzania and Uganda, this matter was handled in a very effective manner? In Kenya, it appears as if the Government collected money and is not willing to remit it to the former employees? Could he explain why they have not been able as a Government, to listen to the former employees and pay them their money?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must appreciate and commend the Kenya Government for negotiating and ensuring that 42 per cent of the proceeds came here---

Mr. Assistant Minister, the question is that Tanzania and Uganda have paid their former employees. Why has Kenya not followed suit?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect, as I said in my answer, the majority of the funds have been paid. As I said from the beginning, there are certain funds that are in the suspense account. We are ready and willing to make those payments. Those payments will be made as and when specifics like the ones Dr. Khalwale brought, are with us.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Assistant Minister prepare a list of those who have not been paid, so that this list can be circulated to various divisional headquarters so that those people can be paid their money?

Certainly, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. We will provide the list and information of all those beneficiaries who have not been paid.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, the answers given by the Assistant Ministers are really contradicting themselves. I wish to table a letter here which comes from his Ministry. Part of the letter states as follows:- “It has proved difficult in some cases, if not all, to credit accounts of such members with those contributions and even impossible to pay those who retire.” I wish to table the document.

I have another letter here from the same Ministry.

What do you want the Assistant Minister to do?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, they did not give the offer to all the East African Community ex-employees--- They gave them to only two of the departments. I hereby lay the document on the Table.

Lastly, as I had asked earlier, I wish to have more time to go through the schedule which he had tabled this afternoon.

Once you examine the schedule, you are always free to come back to the House.

Much obliged, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Next Question, Ms. S. Abdalla.

asked the Minister for Fisheries Development:- (a) if he could indicate what became of the cold house or ice plant project in Faza (Lamu) which was to commence operations in December, 2008 and clarify the stage of the tendering process; and, (b) indicate what plans he has to provide an alternative source of power for the cold house, considering that the generator at the plant cannot provide sufficient power.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Initially, the project was scheduled to be put in Kizingitini Village on a fisheries plot, but due to a land dispute with a private developer, the project was relocated to Faza Village which is very close to Kizingitini. The two villages are on Pate Island. Geographically, Faza Village is much more central and can serve the whole district conveniently. The Faza Cold House project was allocated Kshs16.6 million during the Financial Year 2006/2007, but the money was only received almost at the end of 2007 when the contractor moved on site.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very unfortunate that the Minister has decided to give us the background of the project but he has not answered the Question. This is a very important project to the community of Lamu East Constituency. About 90 per cent of the community members are fishermen. It seems that the community is losing their dream because of---

What issue are you raising with the Minister?

Could the Minister tell this House whether Sare has refunded the money and who has been awarded the tender? Sare must have been paid to buy that machine---

Order! I think you have made your point. Mr. Minister, can you respond to that?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I had said earlier, Sare Company was one of the companies providing the mechanical component of the project. The supervising Ministry was the Ministry of Roads and Public Works. This Ministry was overseeing the project in terms of monitoring and evaluation. When they recommended that the works were substandard, the tenders were re-advertised. Luckily at that time, Sare Company had not been paid. So, not even a single cent was lost on this project as it stands now. Work is going on to make sure we get the right equipment for the cold room.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has clearly indicated that the project is very fundamental to the community of Lamu. Could he give us a timeframe when they will award the tender and ensure the work is done so that the people of Lamu can benefit?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I had said, the re-tendering for the mechanical bit was done earlier this year. We have factored in to ensure that before the close of this financial year this component, which the earlier contractor had

Last question, Ms. S. Abdalla!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, last year, the Minister promised that the cold storage room would be operational by December. Today, we are in August yet he has not even stated when that cold storage room will be operational.

Mr. Minister, did you make any promise to the hon. Member?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has always been my policy that things should be completed on time. However, when we visited this place there was already a problem. So, I really ---

Order, Mr. Minister! The hon. Member is saying that you made a promise. Did you make a promise?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did make a promise. However, I indicated that it would be my wish that the project be completed as soon as possible. That was not to be. That is why I am saying that procuring new equipment takes a bit of time. I have been reassured that after this re-tendering, within the next six months, it will be completed. The money is already there.

Hon. Members, it is now Prime Minister’s Time. I am going to allow the Prime Minister to take his time. If there is time left, that is if he does not take all his time, I will come back to the Questions and see how many we can cover. Mr. Prime Minister, it is now your time!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand here to report, with great satisfaction, that the Government is making a steady progress in the implementation of the Kazi Kwa Vijana Programme which is also known as KKV. I will also briefly touch on the status of the Economic Stimulus Programme. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, KKV was conceived as an emergency initiative with the twin objective of alleviating the severe shortage of food and water as well as unemployment of the youth. The KKV was to employ young Kenyans to de-silt small dams and canals, construct rural access roads and paths and small boreholes, to plant trees and set up water kiosks among other activities. By offering job opportunities, the KKV is expected to contribute to lessening social tensions and to reducing crimes by offering jobs to the unemployed youths. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am pleased to report to the House that the KKV has been well received by our fellow citizens. The KKV has to date employed a total of more than 170,000 youths. This compares well with the target of employing between 200,000 and 300,000 youths. Under the KKV, numerous water dams, water pans, water kiosks and sewerage work for boreholes and irrigation schemes are being constructed. The KKV programme

Hon. Members, as you know, this is the Committee of Supply Day and there are many of you who would like to speak. So, I will not give everybody an opportunity to seek a clarification. Since I know the Prime Minister has given directions as to who should answer the remaining questions, I will give the first priority to those who had indicated that they will ask questions, if they are on their feet.

I will start with Dr. Khalwale followed by Mr. Mungatana. After that I will decide who will seek a clarification next.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is the KKV programme but you have pointed out hon. Members on the basis of the Questions they asked, which are not necessarily related to the KKV. I plead that the eyes of the Speaker will catch every Member.

Yes, they will. Yes, Mr. C. Kilonzo!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is just a plea to the Chair. There are some Members of Parliament whose constituencies the KKV programme is being implemented currently. We will appreciate if the Chair could give us the opportunity to state the actual facts on the ground.

Mr. C. Kilonzo, I will give everybody an opportunity. However, as I mentioned earlier on, it is a Supply Day which begins at 3.30 p.m. If you do not raise too many points of order, more of you will get an opportunity. Yes, Dr. Khalwale!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Prime Minister for what he has just said. However, if one looks at the KKV programme, he or she will find that it is haphazard. The programme does not capture the different interests and talents of the young people. Mr. Prime Minister, in Ghana, they have the Ghanaian Youth Employment and Empowerment Programme. This programme does exactly the same thing. The only difference with our programme is that in Ghana, they have structured it to ensure that children who have an interest in a special discipline, for example, agriculture are supported using the money obtained from the World Bank. This enables the youth to take agriculture-related programmes so that when the time to join college reaches, they have already gained some experience from that particular discipline.

Order, Dr. Khalwale! You saw how many of your colleagues stood up. Please, be brief in your questions. The Prime Minister will be noting them.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what plans does the Prime Minister have to structure the programme so that it does not seem to be tailored to meet the needs of only the youths who have not done extremely well in school? Finally, for some of the youths to be employed, they are forced to bribe the Provincial Administration officials, for example; chiefs and assistant chiefs. What plans does the Prime Minister have to make sure that merit is recognised before they employ those people?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will find that the youth who have been employed dig trenches. They do work that will obviously be short- term. This is the case and yet in the past, the Prime Minister has said that the programme will last for a period of six months.

Mr. Mungatana, ask your question!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am trying to lay the foundation. What will we do with these youths after that period of six months?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Prime Minister be more precise and tell us how much has been allocated to each and every constituency for the KKV programme? In my constituency, they only worked for one week and they were not paid.

Mr. K. Kilonzo, you have asked a question about each constituency. Yours is also a constituency! Mr. K. Kilonzo, I want you to limit your intervention to questions so that other Members can get an opportunity!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is exactly what I am doing. When will the youths who worked for two weeks in my constituency be paid?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Prime Minister to tell us how much money has been allocated to the line Ministries under the KKV programme in the constituencies, how much has been used and on what projects that money has been used. I would also like to know when Members of Parliament were involved in the constituencies committees because we were never called for any meetings.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Prime Minister for that Statement, but it raises a number of issues. One, he is seeking for a partnership with the World Bank (WB). We know that World Bank’s money is not necessarily free. At what interest is the WB giving Kenya money? Two, according to the Act that formed the Office of the Prime Minister---

Order! Order! I gave you a chance to ask two questions and that is the last one.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was listening as I was putting in more. That is because there is more. According to the Act that formed the Office of the Prime Minister, it specifically states that the Office of the Prime Minister is for co-ordination and supervision of Government Ministries. It is becoming obvious---

Order! Order! What is becoming obvious? Ask your question!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Could the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister confirm to this House and to the Republic whether, in order to make the Office of the Prime Minister function, it is usurping the roles of the other Ministries? Who will do the co-ordination when it is under your programme?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Prime Minister for giving that comprehensive answer. But the Prime Minister has admitted that there are problems in the implementation. Has he considered giving those jobs to a committee similar to the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), because the Provincial Administrators do not know how to do those jobs? Can the job be done by CDF, or a committee that is similar to CDF?

Very well. We will have two more questions from Mr. Kigen and Mr. Kathuri!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Prime Minister has mentioned that about 170,000 youths benefitted from that scheme. What is he going to do to ensure that a big number of the youths who were left out are going to benefit from that exercise?

Final Question, Mr. Kathuri!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Prime Minister to tell us: How does he ensure that there is no duplication when he gives money to municipalities that have got Local Authorities Transfer Fund (LATF) and yet, we are not involved and we do not know whether there is duplication?

Secondly, what criteria did he use to allocate the funds to the municipalities? We have county councils which also have needy young men and women who would actually- --

That is clear. Mr. Prime Minister, can you handle those questions?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

All right. I will give you a chance to ask the final question, Ms. Abdalla.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I understand that I am not bright enough, but could the Prime Minister confirm to the House what safety measures he has put in place so that there is no double dishing out by civil servants, where the youth are paid once and the accounting is done twice? The youth might have the money but the accounting will be done by the Provincial Administration.

Mr. Prime Minister, you may now respond.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will answer a number of questions. I would like to say that the first phase was experimental, so that we get to know the difficulties involved.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have learnt through the phase and we are going to, therefore, seal the loopholes that we have identified. We are carrying out a very extensive evaluation of the project and, so far, we have found out the areas where it has worked out smoothly and why it did so. We have also identified loopholes and weaknesses. For example, we found that in some areas, the recruitment was being done by the Provincial Administration – the chiefs and sub-chiefs. Where that was the case, there were complaints that there was favouritism. The chiefs were recruiting their relatives.

But, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that programme was very carefully designed and we produced a manual for Kazi kwa Vijana, stating clearly who was to do what. That programme was being implemented by the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports. For the information of hon. Ethuro, the Office of the Prime Minister has not taken over the functions of other Ministries. There are always line Ministries implementing and the Office of the Prime Minister is supervising. So, in that case, it had been agreed that the Ministry of Youth Affairs and Sports would be the one that would be responsible for recruitment, and the youth leaders would be members of that committee. The youth leaders are the ones who are supposed to identify the youths. So, we have found out that where that happened, there were no complaints. But where that did not happen, there were complaints.

With regard to the query by Dr. Khalwale, yes, we understand the issue of specialization. But you need to understand that those projects cut across several Ministries and not all the Ministries are involved. There are some projects under the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources, like the cleaning of the Nairobi River. Garbage collection, cleaning of the streets and clearing of blocked drainages is under the Ministry of Local Government. The funds for that are being channeled through that Ministry. The Ministry of Roads has also got some funds for those rural access roads. So, those who are working in those rural roads are paid through the Ministry of Roads. The de-silting of dams and construction of new dams is under the Ministry of Water and

World Bank!

On the issue of the World Bank, you know that it also gives grants. What we are talking about right now are grants and not loans.

Hon. Kigen wanted to know how we will ensure others will get the jobs. We are actually going to expand that programme. The programme was launched in March, 2009 and, as hon. Members will remember, we took a long time before we approved the Supplementary Budget. So, the funds were not made available. That is the reason why it was not rolled out the way it had been planned. We now have sufficient time. What happened is that the money that had been earmarked and approved in the Supplementary Budget went back to the Treasury. That is usually the case. So, that money had to be re- voted back and then made available. That is the reason why the work had to stop until money had been made available again from the Treasury. So, within this month of August, we are going to begin again to roll out the programme countrywide. Yes, the issue of double dealing and double accounting as raised by Ms. A. Abdalla is noted. Those are some of the weaknesses that we discovered which we will deal with. This programme is being rolled out in both rural and urban areas. In urban areas, we have so many unemployed youth. That is why we are doing it in urban areas as well as rural areas. This programme, if properly implemented, has the potential of providing employment to many of our youth who are roaming our towns and rural areas at the moment.

Thank you.

Mr. Prime Minister, could you indicate to the Members how you intend to deal with Question Nos.QPM/ 012, QPM/013, QPM/014 and QPM/016 that are on the Order Paper.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, these Questions a part from the last two, were on the Order Paper last time. The Speaker ruled on them. I had directed that these Questions be answered by the respective Ministries: QPM/012 and QPM/013, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister and Ministry of Finance, QPM/014, Minister for Water and Irrigation.

You supervise and co- ordinate Government Ministries, could you tell us whoever is supposed to answer will do so?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Ministers are ready to give the answers on Tuesday, next week.

So, do I get it that the two Questions by Mr. Mungatana, the Question by Mr. Gitau and the Question by Dr. Khawale will be on the Order Paper, next Tuesday.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Question by Mr. Mungatana and Peter Gitau will be on Order Paper, on Tuesday, next week.

I am ready to answer the Question by Dr. Khalwale.

to ask the Prime Minister:- If, following the directive by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance that Ministers and top Government officials use one official car with an engine capacity of not more than 1800 cc, the Prime Minister could- (a) state the rate of compliance with the directive and confirm how much savings are expected from the initiative; (b) table the list of the Ministers, top government and parastatal officials who have complied and those who have not and state whether escort cars will also be affected; and (c) state when H.E the President, H.E. the Vice-President and the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister will start complying and lead by example.

to ask the Prime Minister:-

to ask the Prime Minister:-

Considering that Mwea GK Prison uses River Murubara for drainage and the villagers use the same water for domestic purposes, what urgent measures is the Minister taking to ensure the area residents have access to clean drinking water and the prison stopped from releasing sewerage into the river?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Let us deal with Dr. Khalwale first and then I will hear your point of order.

asked the Prime Minister what the Government is doing in order to pave the way for the key suspects of the post-election violence to face justice locally or internationally.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding the culprits in the post-election violence, the Cabinet discussed this matter extensively in three consecutive sittings and finally resolved as follows:- (i) The Cabinet reaffirmed its commitment to the rule of law and in particular its commitments to the International Criminal Court and will cooperate to fulfill its obligations to the court under the Rome Statute, (ii) It will undertake accelerated and far reaching reforms in the Judiciary; police and the investigative arms of the Government to enable them to investigate, prosecute and try the perpetrators of post-election violence locally,

I just want to get indications how many people want to seek clarification on that.

Dr. Khalwale, you may go ahead!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to express, on behalf of Kenyans, the anger this Parliament has by the attempt of the Cabinet to kill the option of the local tribunal. I would like to ask the Prime Minister to clarify whether he is satisfied that mere amendment of the TJRC Act would be able to support the minimum threshold required by the International Community for purposes of trying the post- election violence culprits?

Very well, Dr. Khalwale! Prime Minister!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have two clarifications.

I am giving you one because of the number of hon. Members who want to seek clarifications.

Let me just raise the last, Sir. The Government of the United States of America and the United Kingdom have said that they will issue travel bans against Ministers who will be found to have been involved in the post-election violence. To show that this Government is committed to making sure that the country moves forward since the US and UK know the names of these Ministers, could the Government also act locally by sacking these Ministers, so that we know that they are committed?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Dr. Khalwale has stated that the Cabinet decided to “kill” the idea of a local tribunal. I want to take hon. Dr. Khalwale along the memory lane. He will agree with me that the Government brought a Bill here intended to establish a local tribunal. That was a Constitutional (Amendment) Bill which required a two-thirds majority. If my memory serves right, hon. Dr. Khalwale himself was in the forefront in campaigning against adoption of that Bill. So, that Bill failed not because of the Cabinet, but because it was denied the numbers that it required. Faced with that kind of situation, what was the Cabinet to do? When the Cabinet decided to try to bring the Bill back to the House, the hon. Member himself and several others were on record saying that it was a waste of time. They said: “Parliament decided, Parliament will not change its mind. Take this matter to The Hague.”

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. My recollection why that Bill did not have a chance---

Please, what is the point of order?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel the House is being misled. That Bill, when it came here, was rejected because we felt that it had enormous flaws and weakness. What some of us expected the Cabinet to do was to improve it and bring a local tribunal proposal here which met a certain threshold that all of us would find acceptable.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that was a question, but not a point of order.

When the Bill was brought to the House, the hon. Member did not point out the flaws. That Bill was based on the Rome Statute. It was a complete carbon copy of the Rome Statute. So, there was nothing much that the Cabinet would do. All that we said was that we were going to try to bring it back here. But the general feeling countrywide was that it was just going to be an exercise in futility. That is the reason the Cabinet, in its wisdom, decided not to waste Kenyans’ time. We have been told that majority of Kenyans want the Hague option. Some hon. Members are on record saying: “Option one; Hague! Option two; Hague! Option three, Hague!” So we said: “Let us not be vague; let us say Hague!”, and that is what we said. If the hon. Member understood me correctly, we never said that the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) was going to try the perpetrator of post-election violence. We said it will undertake accelerated and far-reaching reforms in the Judiciary, police and investigative arms of Government to enable them investigate, prosecute and try perpetrators of post-election violence locally. That has nothing to do with the TJRC. The TJRC is completely a different institution all together. The hon. Member said that Kenyans have no faith in the Judiciary, as currently constituted. So we said we are going to accelerate the process of reforming the Judiciary as well as the State Law Office and the police force so that they can be able to undertake the process of prosecuting the perpetrators locally. This is the only option that the Cabinet had but we have not closed the door to The Hague. We cannot restrain the International Criminal Court (ICC), if it wants to indict the perpetrators if they think that the process we are instituting falls short of the international standards, from proceeding and indicting those who were involved. We have not closed the door to the ICC.

Finally, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we do not know the names of those who are supposedly being barred from entering the UK and the USA. Our law says that you are innocent until you are proven guilty through due process.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, by way of clarification, allow me to say that a lot of the debate that we have in the House over this subject this afternoon is based on ignorance of the law applicable to the subject. The fact of the matter is as follows: First, the decision of the Cabinet does not close the door to the ICC trying Kenyans. That should be understood!

Order, Mr. Olago! Please, seek clarifications! Do not clarify the Prime Minister’s position!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek this clarification under the circumstances. In discussing any proposals that may be brought in amending the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) Act, are we not anticipating debate on a matter that has not come to the House formally?

Mr. Prime Minister, are you not anticipating debate on your proposed amendments?

Ms. Karua, the Prime Minister may not respond to that! It is not a question!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the matter is not before the House, so I am not anticipating debate.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister will recall that on 16th December, he and the President signed an agreement and committed themselves to Kenyans that they would push their supporters to pass the Tribunal Bill. It is, therefore, a matter of integrity. Is it not contempt of Kenyans on the part of the Prime Minister and the President to abandon the idea of a local tribunal even without an attempt? Could the Prime Minister confirm or deny what Kenyans are saying; that they have been held hostage by members of their Cabinet whom they can fire but are afraid to fire on this matter with threats that they will reveal all about the two principals at The Hague?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has, until recently, been a member of the Cabinet and she understands very well the deliberations of the Cabinet. But when we signed the Accord, we said that we will try to persuade hon. Members to pass the Bill. We never said anywhere that we will force hon. Members to pass the Bill. We cannot force hon. Members!

This is a democracy and not a dictatorship! So, hon. Members have a right. This is a case where we said even the whip will not be applied: That hon. Members will be allowed to vote with their conscience and they voted with their conscience democratically and rejected the Bill. What was the President and the Prime Minister to do? So, we are not being held hostage in the Cabinet. The problem is not the Cabinet; the problem is here in the House, that hon. Members have no confidence in a local tribunal.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister be exact as to when these reforms are going to be started and what is the time for the reforms he is talking about? Finally, could he confirm or deny that this was a negotiated settlement within the Cabinet using a new formula that local tribunal divide by The Hague minus Mau Forest equals to TJRC? Based on new mathematics which is neither new maths nor arithmetic but actually railanomics and kibakinomics !

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if I can take the Prime Minister down memory lane, at the height of the crisis, he is on record as having referred

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Prime Minister clarify the role of the TJRC because one of the things I have heard – if I have heard him correctly – is that it will be working towards reconciliation when this House has passed a National Cohesion and Integration Commission. The Government has failed to gazette its members. It is that Commission which has the role of reconciling Kenyans. Why has the Government not gazetted the names of those commissioners?

Mr. Prime Minister, you have five minutes to respond!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the last question raises two unrelated issues. The TJRC, as it is, we have said we are going to reconstitute it. We cannot do it in the Cabinet. It has to come to Parliament and hon. Members will have an opportunity when the amendments are brought here to express themselves; to agree or to disagree. Dr. Eseli has become an expert and developed a very interesting formula. He asked me first when the reforms will be started. The reforms, as we said, expeditiously. In other words, they have already begun as you know we appointed a task force to recommend measures to reform the police force. That taskforce is chaired by a retired judge and the vice-chair is an expert on police reforms from outside the country; from Canada. It has already submitted an interim report – it was submitted early this week. It has requested for an extension of time for two months to complete its report but we have said that we are going to begin implementation of recommendations contained in the interim report. We are also embarking immediately on the reforms of the Judiciary. We hope that we will have made some progress, as quickly as possible, so that we can constitute a Bench to try suspects of post-election violence.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not agree with that formula except to say that the Draft Bill + Parliament = Hague.

Mr. C. Kilonzo asked me to tell this House at what time I changed my mind about Mr. Bethuel Kiplagat. Mr. C. Kilonzo will remember that the names of the members of the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) were brought before this honourable House and approved by the same. I did not notice any kind of dissent. So, it is not the Prime Minister who chose Mr. Kiplagat. He was chosen by this august House.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. On 23rd July, 2009, I raised a Question concerning the road carnage in Kenya and we were

Mr. Prime Minister, the hon. Member wants to know when you will issue the Statement regarding road carnage which you promised less than a month ago.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know why the hon. Member cannot address that Question to the relevant Minister.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to clarify that when I raised the issue, it was made clear that it involves several departments. It involves enforcement by the police, policy by the Ministry of Transport and the Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBs) in terms of roll over and, therefore, industrialization. I have the HANSARD of that day. The issue requires a broad approach that includes the Ministry of Roads in terms of roads contribution to carnage.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will issue the Statement next week.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Question Nos.012 and 013, the Prime Minister has said that he is in charge of co-ordination of all Ministries. The directive on motor vehicles is cross-cutting.

Mr. Mungatana, what issue are you raising?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to say that these Questions were approved to be answered by the Office of the Prime Minister because it is the co-ordination point. We do not understand why these Questions are being tossed from one Ministry to another.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister’s responsibility is to co-ordinate and supervise functions of the Government including those of Ministries. In that capacity, the Prime Minister has the prerogative to delegate responsibilities to all Ministers. The Standing Orders have created the Prime Minister’s Time when the Prime Minister engages with the House. Sometime it is not Question Time. The Prime Minister has the discretion to delegate Questions which have been directed here to other Ministers to answer. I think it is unfair for the hon. Member to insist that the Prime Minister must personally answer these Questions.

Order, hon. Members! What is it Mr. Mungatana?

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not insisting that the Prime Minister must answer these Questions. I am saying this with a lot of respect to the Prime Minister. However, I am saying that his Office is capable of getting this information from all the Ministries so that we can engage. Government departments return billions of shillings to the Treasury at the end of every year and yet programmes

That is precisely what the Prime Minister has said. He has said that he can delegate. That is perfectly within---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order! We have a system of separation of powers. You can ask a Question. The Prime Minister supervises and co- ordinates Ministries and Government departments. If he determines that, that Question will be answered by a particular Minister, you in the Legislative arm cannot determine who from the Executive arm is supposed to answer it. If the Prime Minister has given directions on how a Question should be answered, you may insist on the Question being answered, but you cannot insist on who should answer it.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I entirely agree with your ruling.

If you do so, then let us move on to the next Order!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with your ruling, but I would also like to point out something on Question No.014. That ruling cannot be sustained because this Question was answered by the Minister who demonstrated his inability to answer it properly because it involved not just water but also drainage and the Mwea GK Prison. The House, in its considered and collective wisdom, felt that there is no other better office to answer the Question than the Office of the Prime Minister. This is because under the Constitution, he supervises and co-ordinates functions of the Government.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Next Order! This is Supply Time, Mr. Linturi.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is very important.

It is important, but you can raise it another day. It is time for the Committee of Supply. Next Order!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Speaker do now leave the Chair.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is, indeed an honor---

Order, Madam Minister! Hon. Members you will notice that we have eaten into Supply Time by 21 minutes. The sitting of the House will consequently be extended by 21 minutes. Again, the Questions that were not reached, please approach the Clerks-at-the-Table and agree with them when you want your Questions listed within the next two weeks. Do it in a way that does not interrupt the Minister’s contribution.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is, indeed, an honor for me to present to this august House the 2009/2010 Financial Year Estimates for my Ministry.

The Ministry of Water and Irrigation policy direction is to ensure adequate and reliable supply of water and sewerage services, irrigation development and water storage. My Ministry is composed of five departments; four of them are technical and one is administrative. They are charged with the following broad functions. (i) Water and sewerage services (ii) Water resources management (iii)Irrigation, drainage and water storage (iv) Land reclamation (v) Support services. In addition, there are 14 parastatals and one tribunal that are under my Ministry. The parastatals are The National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation; the National Irrigation Board; Kenya Water Institute; Water Services Regulatory Board; Water Resources Management Authority; Water Services Trust Fund and eight regional water services boards, namely, Athi, Coast, Lake Victoria North, Lake Victoria South, Northern, Tana, Rift Valley and Tanathi.

Order! Order! Waziri, could you ask your colleagues who are interfering with those who are taking notes to take their seats so that notes takers can concentrate on doing so?

Hon. Members, I am telling you what we are going to do. You need not interfere with the officers. They are listening, and need to take notes. So, please, relax.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, during the last five years water sector reforms, guided by the Water Act, 2002, were rolled out. Major achievements in the provision of water services have been realised, notably the establishment of key institutions, which are now operational. Capacity is being built to enable them undertake their responsibilities.

The main thrust of the water sector reforms was to separate water resources management and development from water services delivery, focusing the Ministry’s role on policy formulation, implementation and monitoring. It is important to note that all water resources management has been vested in the boards.

Order, Madam Minister. The Chair has been extremely generous to you and you are squandering the opportunity. Just conclude.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to appeal to this House to approve my Ministry’s budget for the year 2009/2010 as follows: Net development - Kshs13,724,122,865.

Order, Madam Minister! Now you are going to be out of order.

I am just finishing, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir!

We are out of time.

I will finish now. Net development of Kshs13,724,122,865 and the net Recurrent of Kshs3,336,967,570.

Order, Madam Minister.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move and I ask Mr. Kabando wa Kabando to second my Motion.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second this Motion.

Order, Mr. Assistant Minister! Your time is up.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I, on behalf of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources, that oversees the Ministry of Water and Irrigation amongst other Ministries, thank the Minister, Mrs. Charity Ngilu, the Permanent Secretary and the Assistant Minister for providing us the information we needed to do our work of scrutinizing the budget of this Ministry. We had two sittings and I now wish to give our observations. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the Printed Estimates for Recurrent Expenditure for Vote 20, Sub-head 2210300 – Gender and Education, there appears to be a double allocation of Kshs180, 000,000. The Ministry had a pending bill of Kshs625 million at the close of the financial year 2008/2009 from the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation as a result of extra works carried out under drought intervention measures. The pending bill is being paid through budgetary provisions and a total of Kshs250 million has been provided in the Financial Year 2009/2010 to clear part of this pending bill. We observed further that the main projects that had been planned for implementation during this financial year and were left out, include, serving construction contracts for on-going five dams amounting to Kshs3.2 billion, up- scaling irrigation development amounting to Kshs4.158 billion, funding of nine neo-dams projects to increase water storage amounting to Kshs4.3 billion and up -scaling of rural water coverage amounting to up to Kshs1.2 billion. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we observed as well that most of the water services boards other than the Tanathi Water Board appear to be struggling to make ends meet. There appears to be a case of huge operating costs and low income generation. We further observed that there are liabilities carried forward to the water services boards and the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation by the parent Ministry. The Ministry appears to be providing funds every year through the Budget to settle these debts. Further, under Heads 944 and 945, these activities appear to be activities that probably ought to fall under the Ministry of State for the Development of Northern Kenya and other Arid Lands. We know that there is a working collaboration between these Ministries especially in the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands. However, under those Heads, there appears to be a case of an argument that they come under the other Ministry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also sensed some kind of opaqueness with regard to operations and management of the water services boards. These boards demonstrate a case of leakage especially in their resource collection. We observed that this cannot be ascertained properly unless a comprehensive audit has been done to

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this very important Vote. I am glad that I am doing so after hearing the Report of the relevant Committee, which I support.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to raise a few issues regarding the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. As much as this Ministry is very important, the cry down there is that people want water. Because we have the Ministry officials here, I would like to say that there are two water projects in my constituency. One is the Malaba/Malakisi Water Project. This project was initiated when I was in Class Three. Could the Minister tell me what this project is about? Could she also tell me the people who are benefiting from this project where millions of shillings have been pumped into? I am saying that there is immense corruption in the Ministry of Water and Irrigation to the extent that the local populace cannot understand how projects are being implemented or how the money is being utilised. The public is very annoyed because for over 30 years they have not benefited from this project. The former Vice-President and Minister for Home Affairs, Mr. Moody Awori, other delegates from East Africa and I went to launch this project at Kolanya in Teso District. Not even a drop of water or pipe has reached the school where we launched the project. This is the case and yet we went there with heavy machinery. It is very shameful for a useful Ministry like this to just give lip-service to the people.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is one project that I now want hon. Ngilu to take over and ensure that it gives the people the services they require. I am referring to the Malaba/Malakisi Water Project. It has been a failure and an embarrassment to this Government.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is the upgrading of the Busia Water Project. If you look at the designs of that water project, it was to benefit both Nambale and Amagoro constituencies. But, currently, the works are being undertaken but, you will find that the pipes – very good pipes and very good work is being done – are being passed through Teso. But the supply of water is being taken to the Busia side. That is very offending because, previously, those pipes were being extended even to the Teso and Nambale side. I appeal to the people who are concerned because we, the people of Amagoro, are not going to take it very kindly. The pipes are passing through our land and yet, the water is supplied elsewhere. We would like to benefit from that very good project. We want the people on the side of the Busia Town, which is in Teso, also to benefit from that piping. I am making that appeal because the Permanent Secretary comes from there and he understands that problem. The last point where that project is supposed to end is my house in the village on the Teso side. All the surrounding areas should, at least, benefit from that water.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we used to have Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs) like Kenya Finland Co-operation (KENFINCO), so many boreholes were dug. Very many shallow wells and boreholes were sunk in Amagoro Constituency – around 210, if you combine the shallow wells with the boreholes. Those boreholes need to be upgraded. But the Government or the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is giving very little attention to that. Those boreholes are very close to the people. They are in schools and market centres where majority of the people can benefit. Therefore, I would like to appeal that this time round, the Ministry should go down, especially to Western Province, where we have the KENFINCO boreholes, and allocate

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute. I want to start by supporting the proposed Vote of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. The importance of water to the lives of the Kenyan people cannot be over-emphasized. However, I also wish to support the observations that have been made by the Chairman of the Departmental Committee and my colleague, hon. Musyimi. I want to point out one of the challenges that the Ministry seems to have. It is putting in so much effort that seems, at the end of the day, un-coordinated. I have in mind, for instance, the choice of technology. They have sunk so many boreholes in my constituency and nobody is using them. Even where they are sinking those boreholes, there is another old project that is already going on there. That project is supposed to supply water to that area. So, at the end of the day, it boils down to that. Are you, as a Ministry, rationalizing the use and utilization of the resources?

The other challenge that they have is: They have very old projects that have never been completed and, instead of wondering what to do with those old projects, they come up with new ones. It is as if all we are trying to do is to be seen doing something, rather than actually demonstrating what impact will be felt by the people. Among some of those old projects that have not been completed, there are some that are very viable. Actually, some of those projects would be gravity-based. We would just be harnessing water from its natural source. They would really be very viable and very cost-effective. They are not going to entail the use of electricity and so on. The challenges facing the viability of some of those projects - and I want to agree – is about catchment areas. We are going to destroy all the projects and all the investments that we have put in. There are areas within the catchment areas where people are planting eucalyptus trees and so on. So, the regulatory mechanism of the Ministry ought to be emphasized so that the water catchment areas are actually preserved for the current and future generations. The Ministry should ensure that our investments do not go to waste .

Indeed, the other problem is about governance, and some hon. Members have talked about it. When you look at the Water Act of 2002, the new policies underlying the new Water Act and what we have on the ground, there is a very big dichotomy between what the community and the people are doing, and what the Ministry is purporting to do, including even among its own staff like the district water engineers--- We have the new law. We have the new reforms. But, at the district level, the people who are in charge are actually operating as if they have never heard about the new Water Act, 2002. They are out there, misadvising the people and drawing out plans to sink boreholes when there is already a parallel gravity-based and very viable water project in the area. They only need to advise citizens on what to do so that it can really work.

The problem has also been compounded by the fact that there is no sufficient transparency. I have to say that. There is no sufficient transparency, even as we talk about the Development Vote! Like now, we have no idea where or how the Ministry is going to

Your time is up!

With those few remarks, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Mr. Minister, your time is up!

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Vote. Before I support it, I want to acknowledge the work that is being done by the Minister, hon. Charity Ngilu and her Assistant Minister, Mr. Kiunjuri. I also want to acknowledge the Permanent Secretary, Eng. Stower and his officers. I am saying this because not many women are now carrying water on their backs. The number has reduced substantially. We must always acknowledge the positives before we look at the challenges that will always be there, that we must look into finding solutions for. I want to begin my contribution by saying that water is equal to so many things. First and foremost, water is life. That does not need explanation. It is just a fact. Water is also sustainable development. We have been talking about development in this country, but we forget what sustainable development means. It means that you may have water today, but if it is not there tomorrow, the development that you have put in place, will not be sustainable. That is why I would like to agree with my colleague, hon. Karua, that this issue of many Ministries that are doing the same roles, are really confusing us. The work of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is to manage water. But if there is no water, what is the work of the Ministry? Then, we will not have a Ministry of Water and Irrigation. In short, without integration some of this Ministries and maybe, this is a bullet that the Government one day will have to bite, we will always be dealing with water shortage. Not because of the fault of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, but Ministries that are critical to sustainable development in terms of water resources.

Let me speak about these Ministries. I am speaking about the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife that has already been mentioned; Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources, Ministry of State for Special Programmes that deals with issues of flooding and drought, Ministry of Energy that continues to build hydro-electric dams. We make a big hue and cry about it, when they are only producing at 30 per cent capacity because there is no water to sustain hydro-electric projects like the one that was commissioned just a few weeks ago by the President. I was just made aware recently that the Ministry of Regional Development is in charge of water catchment areas. Now how those Ministries are working with the Ministry of Water and Irrigation is left to the officers in charge of those Ministries to decide what to do. This must be brought in a framework that even we, as Members, can understand, so that we know who to hold accountable. We cannot continue talking about water day in, day out, on the surface and not looking at the critical issue of whether we have enough water. Are we a country that can say in the next 20 years, our children will know what it is to have water from a tap? This is what we are talking about. I want to say that water is equal to health. If, for example, we had enough water in Nairobi within the slums, we would cut down by more than three-quarters, the diseases that come about due to lack of proper sanitation. So, water is also equal to health. Water is also definitely equal to security today. Water points that are found within the slums in Nairobi are run by criminal gangs. I would like to inform the Ministry that many women buy water in Nairobi from criminals who man those water points. We are tired of being victimised. We need that water. If it must be run by groups, why not give it to women groups? Women groups will never terrorise each other. Currently, if you do not part with something, you will not get that water. It is a pity because that is the only water

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to support my colleague and friend, the Minister for Water and Irrigation.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fact that Kenya needs more water is no longer in doubt. The fact that we do not have enough water is quite obvious. We, therefore, should and must be speaking of what must be done. The Ministry has done its bit to show us what they can do. Let me start by congratulating them most heartedly for the advocacy of how and why we need dams. A long time ago, I lived in Southern Africa. They have only one season of rain but they still farm because they collect all the water that falls into the dams. We know of countries in this world, especially in the Middle East where they do not get any rain but whatever they get is not wasted. We must, therefore, not just talk about irrigation and dams as if it is something that is not feasible. It is feasible and it is important that this Ministry has more than just what is given in this Budget which they are asking us to support. This amount of money of just over Kshs8 billion is not enough to do the kind of dams that we need. Why do I so say so? It is because every time we talk about water, we talk of the most immediate need; that is, domestic use. Kenya is an agricultural country. We have gone to the point where we tend to demonize those people who use large amounts of water for large scale agriculture. Naturally, the water we need to use for domestic use comes first because we must stay alive. But ultimately, we need to understand that unless we can get our tea and coffee moving, there is no way Kenya can earn revenue. This water is extremely important because the only other way that I know Kenya earns revenue is by tourism and that cannot also be sustainable without water. So, I would like to ask the Ministry, maybe, we should do a little more in collecting water. We are told by our gurus these days that there is going to be an El Nino . Are we prepared? Do we have the dams? Is the money there and is the Ministry prepared? I know the Ministry is aware but they are just as good as the amount of money they are given. Can we do a little more? Can we be a little more creative?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to also support the Vote of this Ministry. Sometime back when I was still young in 1979, a politician from a neighbouring constituency had in his campaign posters that “water is life and land is wealth!” At that time, probably I did not appreciate the accuracy of his campaign slogan but now I stand here saying that truly, with the current development we see around, we realize that without water, we cannot survive. A lot has been said about what the Ministry is doing to ensure that we have water in our homes and have water for our animals. But one thing that I cannot probably explain better than how Dr. Kosgei has talked about is that currently, we seem to be thinking about giving more money to the Ministry of Water to drill boreholes and build dams. But the question is; if there will be no rain, how will the dams be filled? How will we get the water? How will we get the water from our boreholes? So the emphasis, to me, should be more on protecting and preserving the water catchment areas and conserving the little water that we have. If we put more resources to water conservation and protecting the water sources, then we are assured of more water in this country. I remember when I was young that there was a lot of water all over; so many rivers were flowing from Gwasi Hills from where I come from and we really did not have to ask for any Government intervention to have water in our homes. But that is now history. All the rivers have dried! So, I think, as a country, without even leaving this to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, there should be a concerted effort to make sure that we protect and safeguard the water sources.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support the Vote for the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. There are many problems in the country which the Ministry cannot address. This is not because the Ministry does not want to solve those problems but it is because it does not have enough resources.

Water projects should be expanded to match with population growth. I will give you an example. The water taps and systems in Mombasa used to serve a population of 250,000 people. Today, the population of Mombasa is over 1 million. Maybe, it is 1.2 or 1.3 million. This is the case and yet we have the same water taps and water systems. This is why water does not flow in those taps. Something should be done.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion. I appreciate the efforts being made by the Minister and her officials to provide water to Kenyans. In particular, I thank the Minister for providing Samburu East with a water bowser. This is a drought-prone area. Since we do not have permanent rivers, we rely on pans and dams which dry up during the dry season. We experience hardships because of scarcity of water. The Minister has helped the community and schools in Samburu East which would have closed due to scarcity of water. However, I appeal to the Minister given the vastness of Samburu East District – we are talking about 11,000 square kilometers – and difficult terrain – to consider giving us an additional water bowser to serve the entire district. This is because one water bowser cannot serve the entire district. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, to understand the intensity of water problems in Samburu, there was an outbreak of Cholera recently which was attributed to lack of water to the extent that people had to dig shallow wells by scooping sand from dry river beds. You can imagine the same water is used by animals. Certainly, that water is not clean for human consumption. Our people move their livestock to the border between Kenya and Ethiopia in search of water and pasture. Some livestock have even crossed over to Isiolo. Sometimes, we experience conflicts because of scarcity of water. I appeal to the Minister to consider constructing dams and pans in this area. Experience has

Time up!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Member for Rarieda!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to support the Motion.

As I support the Motion, allow me to start by thanking the Government of the Republic of Kenya and the good governments of the Republics of Korea, Japan and Italy for the investments they have made in my constituency to improve water services.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we all know, water is life. I want to think that if we want to make this country sufficient in water supply, perhaps we need to stop being too conventional. The driest surface on earth is a country called Yemen. That country’s main water source is rain water. Yemen receives less than 50 centimetres of rain per year. It is time that we became a little more creative in the way we supply water to our people. My own thinking is that most of rural Kenya, particularly places like the area I come from, can do very well with rain water. I laud the efforts of the Government in the school greening project, where they are planning to supply schools with water tanks to be able to tap rain water. That is good! Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the impression that one gets is that for us to be able to attain the sort of sufficiency we need in water supply for our people is to go multi-sectoral or inter-Ministerial. An average school block in most of our primary schools is about 700 square meters in area. With a simple calculation, you will notice that only 3 centimetres of rain are needed from such a block to fill a 20-cubic metre tank. This is very cheap investment. It will last over 20 years. It will guarantee water to schools, students and communities. Why are we not approaching these simple ways that can guarantee water for our people?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving this opportunity to add my voice to those of those who have spoken before me by supporting this very important Vote. I will begin by congratulating the Minister, the Assistant Ministers, the Permanent Secretary (PS) and all the officers for the great work that they are doing under very difficult circumstances, and with limited resources. I believe that with more support, this Ministry should be able to do much better. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I personally feel that the amount of money that has been given to this Ministry is not adequate to meet the challenges of the day, considering that everybody in the country is now talking about the shortage of water. We are facing challenges in our conservation efforts. Our water catchment areas are becoming more endangered through different human activities. So, I hope that in future, the Government will find it necessary to even triple the amount of money it is giving to this Ministry. Without water, there will be no life at all. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that a lot of water issues cut across different Ministries, I also wish to add my voice to what was earlier on mentioned by Ms. Karua; that, the Government should think of how we can bring together all these Ministries, especially the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife, and the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources into one big Ministry. You cannot speak about provision of water when you have no control over the water sources. I hope that the Government will, in future, think very seriously about this particular proposal by the hon. Member. As an interim measure, we may probably come up with an inter-Ministerial Committee that will ensure that all the activities in these three Ministries are integrated in terms of implementation. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to mention something about the Water Services Board. Where I come from, we fall under the Tana Water Services Board. Previously, it covered the whole of Upper Eastern Province and parts of Lower Eastern Province. We still feel that the Tana Water Services Board as it is, still covers a very wide area. It takes care of almost the entire Central Kenya and Meru and Embu areas.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I want to support Vote 20 of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation.

It is true that this Ministry has been very active on the ground. In fact, they have done their best within the limited resources that they were allocated. We have all confirmed that these resources are not enough. In every constituency in this country, you can see either a borehole, water pan, a dam or piped water being implemented by this Ministry.

Through the Water Act, 2002 where reforms have been undertaken by this Ministry, I think there have been too many reforms within this sector. When you bring too many reforms within one sector, they will bring confusion. It is very true as hon. Members have said, that there are too many agencies at the district or constituency level; if you want to do a pan, you go to one office. If you want to do a borehole you go to another office. If you want to pay your water bills, you go to another office. This creates confusion. I must admit that the officers on the ground, particularly in Loitoktok Constituency, are doing their best. They are very good officers and the work they are undertaking is being appreciated.

If this Ministry could have a one-stop shop within their building whereby the

can get all the services they want with respect to water services, that would be very good.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to talk about water boards. Mine is the Athi Water Service Board. I only have one complaint. I would like the Minister to hear this. My complaint with respect to this Athi Water Service Board is the place where the headquarters has been placed. The headquarters is at Kitui. This water service board is supposed to serve us all the way from Loitoktok. I think, in all fairness, the headquarters of Athi Water Service Board should actually be at Machakos and not in Kitui in order to serve all people equally.

Finally, is the issue of the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation (NWCPC). This NWCPC has the biggest source in my constituency, that is Nol Turesh River. The Nol Turesh water pipeline actually cuts across my constituency. They get

Thank you Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to share some insights with hon. Members. Allow me from the onset, to support this Vote of the Ministry. Allow me also to take hon. Members through the Republic of Kenya. I believe Kenya is a great county with great people and great resources. There is nothing that we lack in this country. The only thing we lack is management. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in my previous discipline, I managed to traverse the whole of this country. Allow me to take you through a tour of this country so that you can have a clear picture of what resources we have. Looking at extreme north in the Mandera area, we have River Dawa. It runs along the common border with Somalia. From there, as you come towards Garissa, there are quite a number of seasonal rivers that during rainy season cut across roads, rendering roads from Garissa all the way to Mandera impassable. From Mandera to Moyale and Turkana, it is the same story.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you come from Garissa towards the coast, we have many other seasonal streams. We have River Tana which is a major river. As you come towards Mombasa, you will find the Sabaki River. Of course, the sea is just next there with enormous volumes of water. If you go Kwale, you will find the Ramisi River which emanates from Shimba Hills. Next are the Kyulu Hills from where other

Your time is up!

Mr. Godhana): Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support the Motion.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution on this Ministry. First, I thank the Minister and, indeed, the able Assistant Minister, the Permanent Secretary and all the officials in the Ministry for the excellent effort in trying to realise that something is happening about water. I think the Minister has the passion for the job. Whichever Ministry you take her, she has the energy and determination. I would like to see this going on in all the corners of this Republic.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying this because yesterday, her Cabinet colleague, Mrs. Mugo, while responding to my request for a Ministerial Statement on the outbreak of polio confirmed that the reason why seven cases of polio have been reported in northern Kenya, particularly in Turkana, is because of lack of drinking water. I also want the Minister of State for Special Programmes to know this, because unless there is a collaborative effort between her, the Minister for Water and Irrigation and Minister for Public Health and Sanitation, Turkanas will continue to suffer from diseases the whole country has declared non-existent. It is a shame that 46 years down the road, some areas of this country can still live like in the Stone Age era. You do not just owe this to Turkanas but the Republic. You owe this to the founding fathers of the

Your time is up, Mr. Ethuro!

Hon. Members, you have got only four minutes left before the Minister responds. Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry, you will share those minutes with Ms. Murugi, two minutes each. We will start with Mrs. Mirugi.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is very brief. First, I want to commend the Minister and state that a budget of Kshs8 billion for the whole of Kenya is too little. The reason why I am saying that is because there is no substitute for water. When you look at the statistics in three provinces in Kenya, over 6.6 per cent of the people spend, at least, over one hour looking for water – that is the Rift Valley, North Eastern and Eastern provinces. That population is made up of women and girls. So, if we should aim to bring water to the households in Nairobi, Central or Western Kenya, where only 1 per cent spend less than one hour looking for water, then we would achieve what we had aimed in the 1970s when the song was: “Tapped water for every household by the year 2000”.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First and foremost, within two minutes, it is difficult for a person like me, whose constituency starts from Masimba to Lake Natron, and which is very dry, to say everything that I want. Nevertheless, let me take this opportunity to thank the Minister and the technocrats in that Ministry for trying to save Kenyans from thirst.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would just like to comment on two things. One, we need to harness rain water. For this country to conduct irrigation effectively, we really need to target all the seasonal streams. We need to put money and spillways on those seasonal streams!

Secondly, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must have equity. When you look at the distribution of resources, especially in Kajiado; you will see that Kajiado North has been given the lion’s share and yet, it is not even as dry as Kajiado Central. So, you need to look into that to ensure that equity prevails. If you lump all the money into Kajiado District without indicating precisely which goes to which district--- We now have two districts – Kajiado Central and Kajiado North.

My third point, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, is that the water from Nol Turesh is not benefitting the people who actually gave that water. 75 per cent of the pipeline passes through my constituency and what I get is a raw deal. It is unfair! The Ministry needs to look into that. To mitigate that, then give us more boreholes and dams.

With those few remarks, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Order, hon. Members! It time for the Minister to respond.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Dr. Shaban has asked me to donate two minutes to her and I wish to do so. Also, I allow me to donate two minutes to hon. Ndeti!

Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Kwanza ningependa kutoa shukrani zangu kwa Waziri, dada yangu, Bi. Charity Ngilu kwa kunipa nafasi hii.

Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, maji ni uhai. Bila maji hakuna uhai. Afya njema hutegemea maji. Chakula cha kutosha hutegemea maji. Kuna jambo moja ambalo ningependa Waziri kulizingatia sana. Maji yakiwa yanatokea eneo fulani, kwa mfano,

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister, Assistant Minister, Permanent Secretary and the entire Ministry’s team. I stand here to support the Vote of the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. I would really like to urge the Ministry to concentrate on conservation of rain water or rain harvesting. As you know, the sea level has been rising because of waste going into sea. We need to find out the best ways to conserve water in our country using dams and also creating gabions on our rivers. We should also look into the issue of harvesting water by giving water tanks to all schools and also provide affordable water tanks for women. I wonder how the Ministry is prepared to tackle El nino rains. As we have been told by the weather people, El nino rain is on its way. We should try ways of conserving rain water.

It is important for the Ministry to look at irrigation. We need to have large irrigation schemes so as to have food security. We should also look at green houses where we do not have land and provide water. I would also like to say kudos to the Ministry on Kazi Kwa Vijana programme. In my constituency, we have young people who have started working on water projects. You are the first Ministry to start projects in my constituency through Kazi kwa Vijana initiative.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who have supported this Motion. I have noted all the issues that they raised. I may not be able to address all of them because of the time. The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources talked about issues of governance, transparency and accountability in the management of water delivery services within the board. I want to assure the House that we will continue to address this issue using the water sector reforms that we have put in place.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issues of water tariffs, it is true that we have increased the tariffs but this is as per some of the boards that made applications to get their tariffs reviewed. Urban tariff is differentiated, based on consumption. It is low in consumption areas and informal settlements. This is different from other areas

We will not go straight into the Committee until we take Vote 21 - Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.

First, I would like to point out that my Ministry’s mandate is - and I seek the indulgence of hon. Members to follow what I will say - to monitor, protect, conserve, manage the environment and mineral resources through sustainable exploitation of resources for socio-economic development aimed at eradication of poverty, improving living standards and ensuring that a clean environment is sustained now and in future. That is the mandate of the Ministry that I head.

Towards this end, the Ministry aims to ensure:- 1. Catchment areas are adequately protected. I urge hon. Members to refer themselves to Section 42 of the Environment Management and Co-ordination Act which spells out exactly what the Ministry is expected to do in respect of water catchment areas. 2. Environmental issues are well co-ordinated and funded. 3. Issues of desertification and climate change effects are thoroughly addressed. 4. Ministry staff get the necessary skills to respond to emerging environmental challenges and give the required awareness to the public and other stakeholders. 5. National Environmental Authority (NEMA) formulates the necessary environmental regulations and guidelines and together with stakeholders enforce them. 6. Department of Mines and Geology provides the requisite information to enable investments in the mining sector. My Ministry will implement these measures through four main departments and one parastatal. These departments are General Administration and Planning; Mines and Geology Department; Survey and Remote Sensing Department; Kenya Meteorological Department and the National Environment Management Authority (NEMA).

As hon. Members are aware, environment and economic development are inter- dependent. Environmental issues of growing concern in the world today include climate change, sustainable land management, pollution and waste management which constitute a direct threat to the quality of life particularly, among the poor. My Ministry will continue to effectively address these challenges through programmes and activities to be undertaken by the respective departments and parastatals that I have just mentioned. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the same vein, allow me to enumerate some of the key achievements that my Ministry has made in the just ended financial year. One is the rehabilitation and restoration of Nairobi River, including removal of all the

Order, Mr. Minister! Your time is up!

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I, on behalf of the Members of the Departmental Committee on Lands and Natural Resources, express our appreciation to the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources, hon. Michuki, his Assistant Minister, Mr. Kiptanui and his staff who are also with us today. We wish to present to this House the Committee’s findings on the scrutiny of the Annual Estimates for the Financial Year 2009/2010 for Vote 21, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order No.152(1) (2). But before I proceed, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this being the last presentation that we are having, let me take this opportunity to thank the four Ministers – the Minister for Land, hon. James Orengo; the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife, Dr. Wekesa; the Minister for Water and Irrigation, hon. Ngilu and now the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources, hon. John Michuki, for responding promptly to the issues that were raised by my Committee during the examination of the 2009/2010 Estimates. I want to thank you for your keenness and also to thank your staff. May I also take this opportunity, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, to thank all the Members of my Committee for their patience and sacrifice. I remember that, one day, we were meeting at 10.00 o’clock and it occurred that the previous day, an hon. Member had driven himself for seven hours, having left home at about 7.00 p.m. and arrived here at 1.00 a.m. to be present for a meeting that was due at 10.00 o’clock with the Minister and the staff. That is the kind of sacrifice, commitment, endurance, hard work and long sitting hours that my Committee demonstrated. I want to thank them and state their names. They are hon. Peris S. Chepchumba the Vice-Chair of the Committee who is here with us, hon. George Thuo, hon. Benjamin J. Washiali, hon. S. R. Muriuki, hon. B.F. Gunda, hon. M. Ogindo, hon. P.N. Gitau, hon. Amb. Mohamed Affey, hon. Omar Zonga and hon. K. Kilonzo. To these colleagues, please, accept my sincere gratitude. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Committee also wishes to record its appreciation to the services rendered by the Clerk of the National Assembly for his support to enable us execute our mandate and also for the staff of the National Assembly attached to my Committee. Their efforts made the work of my Committee and the production of this Report possible. Coming back to the Report, I wish to share our observations. We met on Thursday, 9th July, for one sitting and it was very helpful. In that meeting, we made the following observations. First of all, we noticed a number of projects that have been left out of the estimates of this financial year. These include Integrated Meteorological Information System estimated to cost Kshs220 million, which would enhance the collection, data processing, archival and retrieval of metrological information and products. We also noted that the acquisition of drilling rig estimated to cost Kshs150 million for geological survey and mineral exploration was left out. Left out as well was

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think we are talking too

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. On the outset, allow me to thank the good Minister and his entire team of staff for the passion they have shown in doing their job.

This particular Ministry and, indeed, the country, are faced with three major challenges. The first challenge is the destruction of our water catchment areas or our forests. The second challenge is the pollution of our environment and water resources. The third challenge is the climate change. Finally, the Ministry has the challenge of having very limited resources to deal with the three major challenges.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we, as Kenyans, time has come when we must not put the blame on the Government. We should not be blaming the Government for everything. The issue of water catchment areas has been spoken about day after day, be it the Mau Forest, the Cherengany Hills or many others; but what are we doing? This time round, the Government needs to appear to be a Government. A government is supposed to make decisions that are not necessarily popular. We want to hear that the Mau Forest has been repossessed, whether you compensate the evictees or not, that will be your problem. We want to hear that there are no more squatters in Cherengany Hills. You will be surprised. In some areas like Mbooni, where Mrs. Charity Ngilu comes from, people should be compensated and moved out. That is a water catchment area. A good example was in the 1990s, when the then Head of

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion.

I want to start by saying that I am very much involved in this Ministry, because my business is regulated by the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources. Looking at the Vote of the Ministry, there is no provision that caters for exploration of minerals in this country. Tanzania is building its economy through exploration of minerals. This is one area which the Government of Kenya has forgotten. It is high time the Government considered allocating more funds to this Ministry. The Ministry should assist small scale miners in terms of geological information and establishment of proper mining. By so doing, jobs will be created through that Ministry. It has happened in all other countries in Africa, except in Kenya. Turning to the environment, the problem in our country is lack of capacity to obey the laws of the land. Currently, we are witnessing the worst drought. It will cause problems to us because we have messed up the environment. It is time the Ministry took action against those people who are destroying our environment. This can be done by the Provincial Administration; assistant chiefs, chiefs, the District Officers and District Commissioners. We can use them to make sure that our people plant trees. It should be

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. I also want to congratulate the Minister for the presentation that he has given which was quite eloquent. In so doing, I want to associate myself with the sentiments of the Member for Nyeri Town, that it is time this idea was taken to our schools. From primary school level, we should teach environmental studies so that our children grow up knowing it just like we did knowing what the national anthem was. They would be singing, just like the national anthem, that planting trees or conserving environmental is a matter of course. That being the case, I think it is important to know that if we started that programme now, we have so many Kenyans who do not have that information or knowledge. Therefore, in that connection, I think the Minister should start awareness campaigns to sensitize people on the need to conserve the environment. This could be done through radio programmes, holding seminars or whatever forum. We need that programme very much so that those who are not going to go to school will still know about the need to conserve the environment. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me congratulate the Minister for what he did when he was the Minister for Transport. I never managed to congratulate him that time. He introduced seat belts and that was the in-thing. He really controlled the matatu industry. Today, if you go out there in the world, you will find countries which are very keen on emission control. If you went to Japan and Europe, emission control is a must. It is a very vital aspect of their lives. However, here if you follow any lorry, matatu or car, it has all manner of emissions. This in turn is detrimental to the health of Kenyans. That translates into a huge health bill for the country. It is time the Minister took control of this situation and put in place standards for emission control. It should not be that vehicles would be coming to be checked at the end of the year because they are going to

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to also support this important Vote. As I support this Vote, I will also comment briefly on the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, because I happened not to have been here when that Vote was being discussed.

The environment is very important to all of us. The starting point is to request the President and the Coalition Government to give this Ministry all the political and material support. The President should enhance the mandate of this Ministry. We have the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources and another one for the Ministry of Forestry and Wildlife. Therefore, they cannot co-ordinate issues to do with the environment. There is always an overlap of mandates between the two Ministries. Since I know Mr. Michuki, I would like him to use his office to ensure that this is refined further, so that the Minister for Environment has a mandate including that of forests, which now falls under another docket.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the destruction of our environment has been spoken about. As a Member of the Departmental Committee, we assessed this Ministry’s Vote in detail. We were satisfied with the management of both the Minister and the Permanent Secretary. However, they require more resources as hon. Members have said.

The issue of Mau Forest is equivalent to the issue of Uaso Nyiro River which has dried down stream. There is a lot of cultivation going on upstream. Because the people up stream believe that the water belongs to them, Kenyans who live downstream in Uaso Nyiro and Isiolo continue to suffer. That river used to be permanent, but now, there is not

Thank you so much, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Vote for the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I really do appreciate the efforts of the Minister and the Ministry officials in protecting and conserving our water catchment areas. In fact, I only have two concerns and, one has already been mentioned by my colleague, hon. Affey, about the Ewaso Nyiro River.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, just as he has said, the Ewaso Nyiro River used to be the only permanent river that traverses across many districts, starting from Nyandarua, through Laikipia, Samburu up to those sides of Isiolo. The water used to flow

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to join my colleagues in congratulating the Minister for a well articulated Budget.

I would only touch on Head 162 which touches on institutional strengthening ozone depletion substance. I want to raise a few concerns. This is the year when the Kyoto Protocol will be revised. This will be done in November. We, as Parliament, do

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving this chance to contribute to this Motion.

The environment and man have never been separable because the environment is not just a resource but a valuable asset. One thing I have learnt is that economic development or what I may call economic dynamic balance cannot be achieved if the interaction between the human dynamic balance and the natural resource dynamic balance are not proper. The human dynamic balance has three very critical components; the social, spiritual and the political. Basically, you cannot disconnect these three components. If you are looking at it from that angle, you can never disconnect the dynamics of man and the dynamics of the environment to bring about sustainable economic development.

The failure of man is aligning himself with resources. That is the biggest failure and that is why we are not arriving anywhere towards economic development. Every day we think the economy is the main thing and even in Vision 2030, the focus is economics. All countries are looking at economics, they are not thinking about the interaction between the man and the resources. Allow me to say that we have failed as leaders. The leadership has failed because they have failed to align resources and the man.

Having said that, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have observed very clearly that there is a disconnect between the Government, the institution of governance and the local man. The person being seen as between the two is the hon. Member. If we look at the institutions that are out there connecting the activities of the local people and the Ministry, there is none. There is no link between the Government, the Ministry and the person; that individual in the village. You only see a District Forest Officer and his security personnel. All they do is to arrest loggers and people who grow their crops. Those officers do not tell them what they would like them to do to contribute to the efforts of the Ministry. Allow me, therefore, to agree with a friend of mine here that we need to institutionalize the Ministry from the top down to the village.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no community that does not have the aspect of the conservation of the environment in this country. I have not seen one. In

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would also like to join my colleagues in supporting this Motion in respect of the Vote for the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources.

It is worth commending the Minister because we know that given resources, he will achieve what we want. Lack of a clean environment is one of the problems which we encounter. It is true that as much as one can fall sick because of body weakness, if the environment has a problem, we expect the sickness to be more rampant than it would be if the environment was clean. A good example is some of our colleagues who went to work in the cement industry. Even the ones at senior levels, few of them wanted to stick there. This is because every other time we breath, we breath in cement. As much as the salaries were good, many of them were not keen on staying there.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I note with a lot of concern that the Ministry has unpaid bills running to the tune of hundreds of millions. I sympathise with the Minister because this can easily derail him. However, I would also like to say with bitterness that if the Ministry officials surrendered any money to the Treasury then for heaven’s sake, the Minister should not sympathise with them. He should deal with them seriously. If the Ministry does not have enough funds and some Ministries were surrendering back money to the Treasury, surely, it will be very bad for us not to castigate that behaviour, more so when it comes from officers of the Ministry, who are supposed to have paid bills for the Minister to start on a clean plate.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment about the FM radio weather stations, which are being installed in every region. Embu, which is the headquarters of Eastern Province, and the areas within its periphery, survive on rain water. There is very little that is taking place. There is very little we can achieve if we do not know the weather pattern. We cannot know about the weather pattern if we do not have a station that will be able to broadcast in the local languages that are understood by farmers.

The Government is trying to create food reserves through agricultural activities. This means a lot to the Government in trying to ensure that people are able to sustain themselves in food-related issues. It is very important for the Minister to, at least, ensure that one is operational as soon as possible, just like in Kangema, which is a bit far away,

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Since we seem to have almost exhausted the debate, would I be in order to ask you to call upon the Mover to reply?

I can see a few hon. Members who want to speak. Are you all happy over there?

No!

They are not happy. I will give a chance to about three more hon. Members and then we will all be happy. Ms. Chepchumba!

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I appreciate what hon. Mbarire has said, but all the same I need to speak because we are here to speak on behalf of our people. First and foremost, I want to thank the Minister for Water and Irrigation, Mrs. Ngilu, the Permanent Secretary (PS) and other officials of the Ministry for the good work they have done. As I was seated here I asked the Chair: “Which Ministry is the most important?” of course, we have the Ministry of Lands, Ministry of Water and Irrigation and Ministry of Environment. The Chair agreed with me that the Ministry of Water is important.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Government should allocate more resources to this Ministry because water is life. Let me come to the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources. We all require a clean environment. I also want to appreciate the work done by the Minister, the Assistant Minister, the PS and all the officials in this Ministry. We need to walk the talk.

We, as Members of Parliament, need to support the Ministry, especially at the constituency level. We need to be at the forefront of using any forum to pass the message of a clean environment to the constituents. We should not only leave this matter to the

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. I want to inform my colleagues that as we stand here without even being religious, we are now treading towards the zero hour. When I was in the university, Prof. Nzuki who has six nobel prizes in Biology was my lecturer. In Canada, he turned a broadcaster. One day, he told me this: Looking at everything and the world per se, you can compare it with a model. A model in which you look at a container and its nutrients, that can hold those microbes for a certain time limit. These microbes multiply after every given time. I want us to understand that every minute, day or every six hours they multiply and one becomes two, two becomes four and so forth. That is called exponential growth. One growth tells another one: “When this food has been consumed ten per cent, we have a problem. We have a very big population problem. The resources are getting diminished and we cannot survive.” The other one says:” We have been here for over ten years now and we have only taken 10 per cent. It takes us about six months to double, so we are okay. He comes back after six months and says: “Boss, we have a very serious problem because we are going to perish”. Then what happens? Now, we are already at 20 per cent and so forth and so on. You just need to calculate that within the next 18 months all the resources would be finished, although it took ten years to do the first 10 per cent. What am I saying? It has taken us after the birth of Christ and about six million years, depending on which school you went, to destroy the forests we have like the Mau. Now, within these last few years between 2001 and now, we have faced the Mau situation. This is all about the environment. Given the world we live in, for these things to be with us, it is going to take another 6,000,000 years. That is not possible. We are

Ahsante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii niweze kuzungumzia juu ya mazingira na haswa kumuunga mkono Waziri anayesimamia maswala haya ya mazingira. Mazingira mazuri ndio uti wa mgongo. Bila mazingira mazuri, hauwezi kupata hayo mambo mengine yote kama vile maswala ya maji na afya tunayoyazungumzia. Yote haya yanategemea mazingira mazuri. Jambo la kusikitisha ni kwamba hela ambayo Waziri amepewa afanyie kazi ni tone la maji kwenye bahari Hindi. Ninasema hivi kwa sababu matatizo ya mazingira ndio yametuweka katika hali tuliyo nayo hivi leo. Hatuna chakula kwa sababu tumeharibu mazingira yetu. Ningependa kumukumbusha Waziri na pia kumpongeza kwamba katika zile hela nyembamba alizopatiwa, ameweza kusafisha Mto Nairobi. Kumbe inawezekana! Tumekuwa tukisafiri kwenda nchi zingine na kila mahali tunaposafiri, watu wanatuambia kwamba unaweza kuchota maji mtoni na uyanywe bila wasi wasi. Hapa Kenya tumekuwa tukichafua mito yetu. Kwa hivyo nataka kumpongeza Waziri Michuki ambaye ni chapa kazi. Angepewa pesa za kutosha ili aweze kuhakikisha kuwa ametimiza kazi yake.

Bi Naibu Spika wa Muda, sisi Wakenya tunakata kuwachia Serikali jukumu la kusafisha mazingira yetu. Jukumu hili sio la Waziri peke yake na wafanyakazi wake na Serikali. Ni jukumu la wananchi wote wa Kenya. Ni lazima tuwe na makusudio ya kuwa na mazingira mazuri.

Vile vile, ningependa kuzungumzia juu ya swala la madini nchini. Madina haya ni rasilimali ambayo Mwenyezi Mungu ametupatia nchini Kenya. Madini haya yanatakikana kuweza kusaidia wenyeji wa maeneo hayo na Serikali kwa ujumla. Jambo la kusikitisha ni kuwa tumeona mara kwa mara watu wakitajirika na madini hayo.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also rise to support the Motion. First of all, I support the two Ministers, namely, the Minister for Water and Irrigation and the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources who are here. I am saying this because it is on record that the two Ministers who are here are people who are decisive in this Government. We have seen their achievements. These are Ministers who do not play politics with the lives of Kenyans. They do what is right. In fact, I served under the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources sometime back when I was a District Commissioner and, actually, he went through so many challenges. That is why we are here now. So, I just want to tell the Minister that I am one of his secret admirers. Maybe, he does not know this because I do not visit him in his office. But I know quietly that he is one of the Ministers who is making this Government to move. I want to thank him for that. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is a pity that the money that has been allocated to the Ministry is not enough. We know what the Minister for Environment and Mineral Resources has done for this country when he was the Minister for Transport and Communications. We are still waking up to the reality that what we are going through now in the Ministry of Transport is a problem. When he was in the Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, I am a witness. I do not know why his Ministry was not allocated a budget that is enough. I want to tell the Treasury that, this is one Ministry that is deserving because I know what it means to all Kenyans.

Your time is up!

I beg to support. Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Members, it is time for the Minister to respond

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy for giving me the opportunity to address these matters and also thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate.

From the debate itself, it is quite clear that there is very serious and genuine concern about the condition in which our environment happens to be. Soon, I and the Minister for Forestry and Wildlife, will brief this House on the measures that we are putting in place in order to mitigate against the adverse effects of climate change. But briefly put, it is trees, trees, trees and trees to be planted. It is the trees that will bring us water. It is the trees that will produce that fertility that is required in degraded areas. It is the trees that will cool the air to bring rains. It is the trees that provide rain. It is the trees that provide this economy with our requirements such as timber, firewood, you name it. It is trees and trees. The programme we have which is just waiting to be approved by the Cabinet is that in the next 20 years, by the year 2030, this country must plant 7.6 billion

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT, a sum not exceeding Kshs8,530,545,218 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2010, in respect of:-

Vote 20 – The Ministry of Water and Irrigation

Hon. Members, we will now proceed to the Vote of the Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources.

Vote 21 – Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources

Mr. Temporary Deputy Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:-

THAT, a sum not exceeding Kshs1,784,059,460 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2010 in respect of:-

Vote 21- Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am directed to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Resolution that a sum not exceeding

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution.

(Mr. Orengo) seconded.

Vote 21 – Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am directed to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Resolution that a sum not exceeding Kshs1,784,059,460 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet expenditure during the year ending 30th June, 2010 in respect of Vote 21 – Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources and has approved the same without amendment.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution.

(Mr. Orengo) seconded.

Hon. Members, that concludes the business on the Order Paper. Therefore, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, 6th August, 2009, at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 8.17 p.m.