Minister for Medical Services, I thought I approved a Motion by you.

Order, Minister! Did you look at your documents before you came this afternoon?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following---

Order, Minister! Before you proceed, you must apologize. You know that that is disorderly conduct. You are not supposed to allow your mobile phone to ring in the plenary.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to apologize for the misbehaviour of my mobile phone. It will not misbehave again, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Carry on, Minister. ADOPTION OF SESSIONAL PAPER NO.7 OF 2012 ON POLICY OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH COVERAGE IN KENYA

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts Sessional Paper No.7 of 2012 on the Policy of Universal Health Coverage in Kenya laid on the Table today Wednesday, 28th November, 2012. Further, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion---

Order, Minister! You cannot move a Motion at this time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT this House adopts Sessional Paper No.6 of 2012 on the Kenya Health Policy laid on the Table today Wednesday, 28th November, 2012.

Member for Bura! Hon. Ekwe Ethuro, I have noticed from you that you have been deputed to ask this Question on behalf of the Member for Bura, but I am afraid that you cannot do so because this is a Question by Private Notice. I do not wish to go any further because you are a Member of the Speaker’s Panel. I will defer this Question until such time that the hon. Member for Bura will be available.

Order, Member for Turkana Central! You know that on this you cannot respond. You can only go to institutional memory.

Just one thing, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Okay, let me hear you, but away from where I have guided you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not responding because I also have instructions that if you are kind enough to defer the Question, as you have done, then you may do so until Tuesday.

Fair enough. I have served you well. This Question is deferred to Tuesday, next week.

to ask the Minister for Justice, National Cohesion and Constitutional Affairs:- (a) Could the Minister state the academic and other qualifications required for candidates vying for positions of President, Deputy President, Member of National Assembly, Member of Senate, Governor, Deputy Governor, County Assembly Speaker and County Ward Representative? (b) What other documents, or clearance certificates, are required as well as the vetting process candidates seeking elective positions are supposed to undergo, and could the Minister state if there are timelines to be observed, and who is to conduct the vetting process, if any? (c) Could the Minister indicate the specific provisions of the law supporting such requirements?

asked the Minister for Fisheries Development:- (a) why the Aquaculture Pond for fish breeding constructed along the shores of Lake Turkana by the Italians has not been utilized. (b) why the larger Turkana region missed out on the fish ponds under the Economic Stimulus Programme, yet it has the largest inland lake in the country? (c) what plans he has to establish fish processing plants along the shores of Lake Turkana?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) The fish ponds constructed along the shores of Lake Turkana by the Italians were not utilized as was projected with the inception of fish farming in Turkana. This was because of the following. One, the ponds were faulty and had high water seepage. This was compounded by a high evaporation rate which required that water be pumped continuously. Secondly, the water pumping required the installation of new solar panels. The initial panels failed to work in high temperature conditions since they were suited for low temperature environments. (b) In the implementation of the Aquaculture Program in Kenya, the Ministry undertook a National Aquaculture Suitability Appraisal in the year 2009/2010 and developed a National Aquaculture Suitability Maps for all the 210 constituencies in order to guide the implementation of the program. Based on the suitability maps, the larger Turkana region was found not to be among the high potential areas for construction of conventional ponds for aquaculture.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have the benefit of the written answer, but I have followed the answer by the Minister and I feel that I can proceed. It is really disappointing that towards the end of this term, the Minister for Fisheries Development is telling us the same things that his predecessor told this House in 2008. I am talking about hon. Dr. Otuoma who, at least, visited our place for three days and we developed a master plan on the development of fisheries in Lake Turkana. We were hoping that these things would be done again. Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is now talking of a May, 2012 Fisheries Master Plan. Since it is the attitude of the Government never to develop these areas, could the Minister give me a timeline on the fishing plans? When will the solar works be undertaken along Lake Turkana? He needs to specify names, including the proposed fish pond on River Omo in Todonyang.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of developing the fisheries potential within the region of Lake Turkana has been taken as a flagship project under the Vision 2030 and, therefore, is being handled as such. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that my predecessor did visit Lake Turkana and the master plan was, indeed, discussed. But because of budgetary constraints in the Ministry, we are actually unable to execute and implement that very wonderful plan. Therefore, we believe that, having pushed this project to be captured under Vision 2030, then it will be given more prominence and, therefore, funds will be attracted or will be set aside for purposes of developing the fisheries potential within the lake region.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in his answer to part (a) of the Question, the Minister said that the Ministry discovered that there were some defects with the ponds. I would like to know what role the Ministry played during the feasibility study before the Italian Government started constructing these ponds.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a private venture by an Italian company called Impresa sometimes between the 1980s and the 1990s. It had nothing to do with the Government; it was not a Government-funded project and, therefore, whatever studies were done, then they were done privately. We may not be able to understand why they

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead this House by saying that these programmes are in the Vision 2030, yet he now says that whatever we have been discussing here is a private venture by individuals? Is he in order to mislead the House that the Government is doing something when we know that it has done nothing on the problem facing fisheries in Lake Turkana?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are two things here. Long before the Government undertook the Aquaculture Program, already in the 1980s and 1990s around the Turkana region, a private company initiated this kind of an aquaculture programme. Therefore, during that time, the Government was not involved in any acquaculture farming. Basically what happened was that a private company set up a private business entity to make profits and, therefore, as Government, we were not involved. It is only that we failed because of the reasons that I have already given while I was answering the first part of this Question. Therefore, the aquaculture programme that is running now has got nothing to do with this project that was undertaken by an Italian Company between the 1980s and 1990s.

What is it, Member for Migori!

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is saddening for the Minister to say that somebody from outside can just come and start a project here. Is he in order to mislead this House and the country that any outsider can come and venture in any project in Kenya without consulting the line Ministry?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, any businessman coming into this country to set up shot must obtain the necessary licenses and I believe the company did exactly that for them to be allowed to carry out and initiate this particular program. But having been cleared to start this particular business, since it was a private entity, the Ministry had nothing to do with exactly how they were going to set up this particular business. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, this Ministry came into being during this Coalition Government. I believe that in the 1980s and the 1990s, there was no stand alone Ministry called the Ministry of Fisheries. But I believe the Ministry that was handling matters related to fisheries then must, of course, have given the necessary---

Order, Minister! There is a point of order. Member for Turkana Central, what is it?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Minister in order to mislead the nation and country? The people of Kalokol must be watching him. The distance between the Impresa Agricultural Project and the Fisheries Department of the Ministry, whether the Ministry was on itself or was a department in another Ministry, is just two kilometers. In this centre, you have the Marine and Fisheries Research Centre and the Japanese International Co-operation Agency (JICA) Project. In fact, the Senior Fisheries Officer of the entire Turkana County resides in Kalokol while Lodwar is the district headquarters because of the value the Ministry attaches to the lake and its

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the role of the then Department of Fisheries was merely facilitative, and I believe they did the facilitative role. But the management of this particular project was not in the hands of the Ministry; it was not in the hands of the Government. As always, the Government facilitates any private entrepreneur coming into this country to set up business and I believe the then Department of Fisheries did facilitate, and that is why this particular company did set up its project around Lake Turkana Region. However, how they manage this project had nothing to do with the Government or the then Department of Fisheries, and with their failure, therefore, we cannot now turn back to the Government while a private entity came, set up an aquaculture program and failed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I laud the Minister for starting the aquaculture project under the Economic Stimulus Program in all constituencies in the country, including in most of the---

Order, hon. Member for Emuhaya! Prosecute your question.

In most of the constituencies, including Emuhaya, the problem this program is facing is lack of fingerlings, high cost of fish feed and lack of markets for fish. What is your Ministry doing to avert the imminent collapse of this program?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, it is true that we have been facing several challenges in as far as the aquaculture program is concerned. As a Ministry, in as far as fish feed is concerned, we have decided to train our farmers so that they can be able to make fish feed without necessary waiting for the feed from the Ministry. We have already designed some fish feed pelleting machine that we are giving out to farmers. This is a project that is ongoing. Maybe we have not managed to take some of these machines to Emuhaya, but I can assure the hon. Member that we will be able to provide farmers with the feed pelletting machines in Emuhaya so that they can be able to make food and feed the fingerlings. On the issue of fingerlings, initially it was a big problem but I believe that by now, as a Ministry, we have grip of it. We have, in fact, trained farmers to do breeding so that they can be able to supply farmers. We have clustered fish farmers into several clusters depending on their regions, and in every cluster, we have trained farmers that can do breeding so that they can provide fingerlings to fellow farmers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Lake Turkana Fisheries has a potential of generating millions of shillings, if it is developed like in the rest of the country. You have heard the Minister is giving our project to Vision 2030 and my question in this House is: It seems like this Government has already divided Kenyans into two categories; there are Kenyans for the present development and there are Kenyans for Vision 2030. Why is it that everything about Turkana must be taken to Vision 2030? Why not now when we have fisheries that is in the present? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think it is true that we are treating the residents of Lake Turkana region as a group that falls within the Vision 2030 and the rest of the country under the current development agenda of Government. There is so much that we are doing as a Ministry, but the kind of finances that are required to fully utilize

Next Question, hon. Member for Turkana Central. I am sorry; it is the hon. Member for Kirinyaga Central.

asked the Minister for Lands whether he is aware that Getuya Primary School in Kirinyaga County has not been issued with lease for the land it stands on and, if so, when the school will be issued with the lease.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not received the written answer.

Assistant Minister for Lands, do you have an extra copy of your answer?

Well, I do not have it, Mr. Speaker, Sir. But it is just a very short answer which I believe he will be comfortable with whatever I give him.

The rule says that you should supply the answer to the hon. Member but proceed; maybe the hon. Member will be able to---

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to reply. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware that Getuya Primary School in Kirinyaga County has not been issued with lease for the land it stands on. But like most other public schools, the school is on the land reserved for educational use.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while thanking the Assistant Minister for the short answer, I would like to ask him whether he is aware that part of the land for the said school has been carved out by some other people and that they have got titles for the same. That is what prompted me to bring this Question to Parliament.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as matters stand, the land in question is still reserved under Kirinyaga County Council, as per the green card which is with me here. So, in case the questioner or any of my colleagues want a title for a school, they could just approach

Hon. Member for Kirinyaga Central, I have no other interest in your Question. So, please, combine your point of order with the last question.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Assistant Minister is talking of a green card that he is holding. I have documents which show that, that land for the school has been subdivided and part of it has been given to a private developer. Could we be allowed to sit with the Assistant Minister so that we can compare notes of whatever he is holding and whatever I am holding, because he has not tabled anything?

Yes, if you want to be allowed, that permission is granted. Assistant Minister, will you indicate when you can meet with the hon. Member for Kirinyaga Central to resolve this matter?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, immediately I leave this Chamber, I will invite the hon. Member to come to my office and I will actually assist him with whatever he wants. But what I want from him is a recommendation from the County Council of Kirinyaga, through the Ministry of Local Government, because if any encroachment has been done, then the County Council of Kirinyaga is aware because it knows that the land was actually reserved for the school. So, if there is any encroachment, let him just come to my office; we will actually deal with the matter on the table and I believe we will get an answer for it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Very well; hon. Member for Kirinyaga Central, you are invited to a meeting immediately after this Question Time. So, you start your first meeting with the Assistant Minister this afternoon and follow up until you have a satisfactory resolution of the matter. Next Question, hon. Member for Baringo Central.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have a written answer.

Minister for Information and Communications, do you have an extra copy of your answer?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry; I do not have it here.

How long are you going to be?

To read? About three or four minutes.

Do it in two minutes, please. Do not read; give the answer; use your answer just as guiding notes.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply. (a) Yes, I am aware that Mr. Julius Sigilai Kipkorir Chemjor was dismissed from the Postal Corporation of Kenya (PCK) on grounds of gross dishonesty and loss of confidence arising out of Mr. Chemjor fraudulently obtaining owner-occupier house allowance on an undeveloped plot No.Baringo/Kabarnet/Kewamoi 1490. The plot where Mr. Chemjor’s house stands is plot No. 1468, which belongs to Mr. Paul Kibet Chemjor, the younger brother of Mr. Chemjor. Following this, Mr. Chemjor filed a case against the corporation on 11th March, 2009, being dissatisfied with the said dismissal; suing for wrongful dismissal and demanding his terminal dues. The case proceeded to full trial on 25th June, 2009, and the honorable court delivered its judgment awarding the plaintiff Kshs5,042,400 as terminal dues for wrongful dismissal. However, the corporation was dissatisfied with the judgment of the court, lodged an appeal No.73 of 2010, for the Court of Appeal to set aside the entire judgment. The corporation further filed an application dated 12th August, 2009, to stay the execution of the decree pending the hearing and determination of the appeal. On 13th October, 2009, the honorable court allowed the application for stay of execution and directed that the corporation deposits the amount of Kshs5 million in the joint interest-earning account of the two lawyers pending the outcome of the appeal. The corporation fully complied with the court order and the joint bank account No.333401645 was opened with NIC Bank, where the whole amount of Kshs5,042,400 was deposited as security pending the outcome of the appeal. The appeal lodged by the corporation is still pending in court as no hearing date has been fixed by the Court of Appeal. The aforesaid order remains valid and enforceable. In view of the foregoing, it is important to also note that while it is true that Mr. Chemjor was dismissed on grounds which the corporation duly verified and investigated, the question as to whether his dismissal was wrongful or not will and can only be determined by the Court of Appeal and is hence sub judice . Secondly, there is a valid court order issued on 13th October, 2009, which had the effect of stopping any payments of the decretal amount and or terminal dues awarded to the plaintiff by the court until the outcome of the pending appeal. Lastly, as I have already indicated, the appeal is still pending in court and no date has been fixed for hearing of the same. Hence no payment can be made to the plaintiff unless the court orders otherwise or both parties agree to settle the matter outside court. It is my considered opinion that due to the principle of sub judice, it might not be prudent for Parliament to interrogate this matter.

That is fair enough, Assistant Minister. You know what our practice is if you want to claim sub judice; you are very well aware. I have made many rulings on that matter, so I do not have to guide you beyond what I have done previously. Hon. Mwaita?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to thank the Assistant Minister. He has given a detailed answer on the question of the dismissal of Mr. Chemjor. The Assistant Minister has given an excuse that the matter is pending the Court of Appeal. He has also said that the corporation is amenable to an out of court settlement. If both parties could agree and record a consent, is he willing to pay or is he willing to proceed on that aspect?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I might not be able to commit myself on that aspect, but it is important to note that Mr. Chemjor has not approached the corporation on the same issue. Maybe once he approaches the corporation, we can get something going. That is all I can say for now.

Mr. Mwaita, ask your last Question.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I will ask the victim to approach the corporation. I have no further questions.

asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) under what circumstances the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) funded by the US Government discontinued funding to Nyanza Reproductive Health Society (NRHS) thereby crippling the implementation of the Voluntary Medical Male Circumcision (VMMC) project in Nyanza; (b) what the fate of over 600 employees of the project who were managing VMMC project in Nyanza, parts of Western and Nairobi provinces is; and, (c) whether he could confirm that the withdrawal of funding is a direct consequence of mismanagement and fraud by top officials on NRHS.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Question was referred to the Minister for Public Health and Sanitation. I think a letter to that effect has been directed to the Clerk of the National Assembly. Matters of circumcision are handled by that Ministry. The Assistant Minister is here and he confirms that the Clerk has not yet communicated to the Ministry for an answer to this Question.

Order, Mr. Minister! Perhaps you can indicate when the letter was dispatched to the Clerk of the National Assembly so that it can be traced.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can consult my office and inform the Clerk accordingly. However, off the cuff, I do not know exactly when the letter was dispatched. However, that is the information that my secretary gave me this afternoon as I was coming to the National Assembly. I am sure that Dr. James Gesami is quite accomplished in matters of circumcision. I believe that when the time comes for him to do so, he will competently reply to the House.

Mr. Minister, perhaps you should know that I have a letter before me which is dated today addressed to the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation and it cites Question No.1836 which is the one by the Member for Molo. Do you have a similar letter for Question No.1804 or is it a possible mix up? Just be sure.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very sure that the two Questions were referred to the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation. I am also sure that my Ministry has not been handling the issue of circumcision because it is a public health issue.

In fact, I now have a second letter which refers Question No.1804 to the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation. So, Mr. Assistant Minister for Public Health and Sanitation, are you able to indicate when these Questions can be answered? Are you comfortable with Thursday, next week? That gives you adequate time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have not received the Questions in our Ministry but we will answer them.

You must have received the letters by now because what I have are copies of the letters to the National Assembly. The National Assembly is further from the Ministry of Medical Services than you are. So, you must have received yours. So, I direct that this Question appears on the Order Paper on Thursday, next week. So, be guided accordingly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Members, the hon. Member for Chepalungu is not in the House because he is caught in a situation in his constituency which will not permit him. Therefore, I will defer his Question as requested by the Member for Chepalungu to 4th December, 2012. Is the Minister of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security here? Is that convenient with you? The Minister is not here. So, my directions will stand. The Question is deferred to Tuesday, next week which will be 4th December.

asked the Minister for Medical Services:- (a) whether he is aware that employees who were employed in 2008 under UNICEF supported program were not paid their dues from July 2009 to 2010; and, (b) why they were not paid and when their dues will be settled.

I think we have a position on this but we just want to hear you for the purpose of the HANSARD.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, to go on record, Question No.1836 which has been asked by the Member for Molo has been referred to the Ministry of Public Health and Sanitation under which the issue of employment of these nurses falls. The Assistant Minister for Public Health and Sanitation has already indicated to the House that the answer to this Question will be ready on Thursday, 4th December.

It is so directed. The Member for Molo, please, note to be here on Thursday, next week to proceed with the Question.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I oblige.

That settles the matter and brings us to the end of Order No.6. From now on, hon. Members, you will be guided by the Supplementary Order Paper which has been circulated. Hon. Members, please, note that there was communication deal today on Action by the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) in Baragoi. That communication is not ready or it is not in its final form. Therefore, I will make the communication on Tuesday, next week at 2.30 p.m. We will move on to the next order. The Rt. hon. Prime Minister, we will take you first.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will issue a Statement on the road to the implementation of the devolved systems of Government. Allow me to begin my Statement today by congratulating all hon. Members of this august House for the passage of the formula for sharing of revenue among county governments yesterday. It is, indeed, a historic milestone in the implementation of our

Those who want clarifications--- Order! What is it, Minister for Medical Services? What prompts you to make a request?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just switching on my button to make a contribution.

You are taking time off to do some games on our system.

No, I believe this is what you press when you want to make a contribution.

It is not time to make a contribution, Minister. Any how, let us get away from there.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Prime Minister for that key address to this House. I would ask him to respond to one critical issue concerning the accommodation facilities for the incoming governments. What is the Government doing to make sure that these offices are ready, as we prepare to go into devolved units?

Prime Minister, you want to keep a note of that. We will take the Member for Turkana Central next.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister for coming to this House with that Statement. But I am a bit disappointed by the content of the statement. My recollection of the role of the Prime Minister, as per the Constitution, is that he is the co-ordinator and supervisor of Government functions. If you recall the Statement he made at the end is that he urged the necessary Government departments to do the needful. The clarification I would like to get from the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister is: What instructions have you given to those entities to do what is required? What timetable is the Government giving us in terms of the two Bills that are necessary in order for this to be stated? When are you going to bring the revised Budget estimates to take into account these things, knowing that this will be the last session for this House, and we do not have the luxury of time? Mr. Speaker, Sir, one other issue if you allow me--- At the core of devolution, the Constitution gives us 15 per cent minimum. What are we proposing to ensure that those areas the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister has mentioned, like northern Kenya, will come to the same level as the rest of Kenya, so that every time our people are butchering each other, you do not just take us to court, as you have done lately, Mr. Prime Minister? You can now talk of 30 to 50 per cent in terms of the revenue that should go counties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to seek some clarifications from our Prime Minister. Bw. Prime Minister, there have been a lot of confusion in as far the Provincial Administration, or county administration, is concerned. You and me - I think the whole nation and this House - know that we cannot do without our chiefs, assistant chiefs, district officers and thing like that. There has been confusion as to whether we are going to retain them or not. We know that, as the people answerable to the Office of the President, they must be away from politics. What are we doing as a nation, realizing that we cannot do without the chiefs and assistant chiefs, because they are the ones answerable to the very grassroots? What is the Government doing to guide us properly, or how are you going to restructure it to ensure that we get the services that are required?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the House must commend the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister for his consistency towards devolution. The House must commend itself for passing the allocation formula yesterday. But despite the consistency of the Rt. Hon. Prime Minister and the passing of the formula yesterday, we are fully aware that there are mandarins at the Treasury who have been frustrating the issue of devolution since inception. What steps has the Government put in place to ensure that this frustration by these mandarins at the Treasury will not occur in future.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues to thank the Prime Minister for his Statement about the state of preparedness for devolution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think one of the foreseeable challenges that is going to be met by newly established county governments will be capacity in terms of exercising their mandate. There has been the Transitional Authority, which was set up by an Act of Parliament. Could the Prime Minister comment on the state of preparedness in terms of ensuring that, that capacity will be generated in time? There have also been fears and concerns that the Transitional Authority has been underfunded, which seriously compromises its ability to deliver on its mandate. What is the Prime Minister’s position about that?

Member for Migori, please, proceed. That is the last one going by expression of interests that I have followed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, while we commend the Prime Minister for the role he has played in the devolution in this country, as we go towards the implementation of the budgets that we are talking about, can we, as a country, also make sure that we clear the pending cases which have not been sorted out like the retirees’ benefits which came before this Parliament. Up to now, nothing has been done and teachers are dying. They are not able to pay school fees for their children in schools because that money is not forthcoming.

Rt. Hon. Prime Minister, you may respond and be prepared to take another three, which have come belatedly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Lari wanted to know about the offices for the county governments. I have said that the Transition Authority is actually charged with that responsibility and that efforts are being made to ensure that when the county governments come into effect, they will be having structures in which they can begin their work. However, a lot more other work will be done by the county governments themselves once they come into being. However, I just

Order, Prime Minister! There is a point of order from the Member for Juja.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not sure whether you heard the Prime Minister say that it is a fact that chiefs were brought to Embakasi. I am not sure whether the Prime Minister would be in order to say so without being able to substantiate that fact. I am requesting for a substantiation of that fact that the chiefs were actually brought and told that if this party comes to power, they will be fired. He said that it is a fact. I do not seem to remember or know the Prime Minister to be a rumour-monger. He is not. So, really---

You have made your point, Member for Juja. You are calling for substantiation. Prime Minister, are you able to substantiate that assertion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya and, therefore, I will not engage in rumour-mongering. I know this as a fact. I have raised it within the Government itself. I have said it is not right for civil servants to be engaged in partisan politics to go and tell chiefs that if the party known as ODM comes to power, your jobs are not secure; you will lose your jobs and, therefore, you should go and campaign for party A, B and C. That is not right. I am only saying this because I felt that it is necessary for the country to know that when you see the chiefs demonstrating, they are not just demonstrating, they have been asked to demonstrate. Therefore, the chiefs are playing politics. I have told them that if you engage in politics---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is really surprising that the Prime Minister of this country is giving us information that the chiefs were brought here and incited that if party A or B comes to power, it will be against them. I wanted to know whether the Prime Minister is in order to tell this House this information and whether this information is official Government position coming from the Prime Minister.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was responding to the question raised by the very same hon. Member about the threat to the chiefs. In doing so, I could not escape referring to what is in the public domain that the sub-chiefs have been demonstrating publicly. I was just offering the hon. Member an explanation as to why those chiefs have been demonstrating. What I am telling him is that the chiefs were brought here and it is a fact. I can mention the date and the day. I am saying that chiefs actually are acting at the instigation of some other people.

Order, Prime Minister! Do not go away as yet. Since you have been challenged to substantiate and there is a follow up by the Member for Kitutu Masaba, would you be so kind as to give further information such as the date when they

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the meeting took place sometimes in the month of September and part of October. I can give the exact date when I come next time. It is a fact because I do co-ordinate functions of the Government. I would be the last person to come here and engage the House in hearsay. It is an issue which I have even taken up with the officers concerned. I have even urged the chiefs to desist from being asked to play partisan politics. It is true that there is the fear of the unknown---

Right hon. Prime Minister, please, resume your seat for a moment so that we can conclude that part. From what you are saying, Prime Minister, and if it is so, then confirm, because you are giving the information which you have to this House in the slot that is allocated to the Prime Minister. So, is it correct to say that you are doing this as the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya and that this information has come to you by virtue of your office? If you confirm that, I am satisfied.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do confirm.

Fair enough. In that case, that settles the matter. You may make further responses if you have not concluded.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have finished.

We will take the next set and I see three Members interested. We will be restricted to just those three. We will not go beyond the three. Now I see a fourth and fifth one. Since we normally do this in clusters of five, we will restrict ourselves to five; not more than five. We will begin with the Member for Webuye.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Prime Minister for his Statement on the formula for revenue allocation and particularly his reference to the key Bills; the Division of Revenue Bill and the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. Given that the two Bills are essential for implementing the formula, in other words, the formula will only be applied when the two Bills have been passed; and given the limited time we now have at our disposal, I would like the Prime Minister to assure this House that the two Bills will be brought to the House for debate and passing in time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Prime Minister is on record here and he was able to say that the chiefs have been asked to demonstrate. The Provincial Administration, especially the sub-chiefs and the chiefs, have been able to mobilize themselves, especially in the case with Makueni County to push the Government to address their concerns. Could the Prime Minister clarify whether his office is supportive to the issues pertaining to the Provincial Administration, especially the chiefs and sub- chiefs; whether he can give that commitment that their grievances and concerns will be addressed soonest?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Prime Minister for his Statement on the road of implementation of the devolved system of Government. What I want to know from the Prime Minister is what policy framework has the Government put in place to deal with employees of various county councils and municipal councils within various counties so that as we get to county governments, this matter is resolved?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Prime Minister has told this House from the Dispatch Box that he has information as the Prime Minister of Kenya that there was a meeting of chiefs and that the chiefs were informed to support one political party or the other. The Office of the Prime Minister is a very serious office and so nobody would provide information that is not documented. Given that Section 35 of our Constitution requires that you give access to information, could the Prime Minister table documentary evidence that such a meeting took place and a copy of the statement that stated that they should support one political party or the other?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Prime Minister to clarify the following given the fact that he is making a Statement on the road to the implementation of the devolved system of Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one, in the current financial year, the county governments were allocated a total of Kshs148 billion. I would like the Prime Minister to inform the House how the proportionate one-quarter of the last quarter of this financial year will be ensured that it trickles down to the county governments from March to cater for the needs of March, April, May and June. I think that is very important so that once the new governments and governors are elected, they will continue just like the national Government. Currently, the national Government, the Judiciary and the Kenya National Assembly are planning, preparing and formulating their budget for the 2013/2014 Financial Year. We would like to know the indicative organs of Government which are preparing and planning for the budgets of the county governments, because the county governments also need to be planned for in advance so that we do not have a gap. Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, we have a Commission called the “Salaries and Remuneration Commission” which was supposed to have advised the country by now as to what the proposed salary scales and structures of the incoming senators, governors, county assemblies, county secretaries and the rest of the staff are so that the same is factored in as we do next year’s Budget. All these matters appear to be at bay and I would be very happy if the Prime Minister, now that he is making a Statement on the roadmap towards implementation of the devolved Government and even as we discuss the County Allocation Revenue Bill, would tell us whether the 15 per cent proposed by the Constitution to directly go towards the county governments will be sufficient or not.

Mr. Prime Minister, you may respond now.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member for Webuye wanted to know when the two Bills that I have talked about will be tabled before the House. I have already mentioned that instructions have been given to the Ministry of Finance to prepare the Bills as quickly as possible. I know that they are working around the clock, but I am not in a position right now to state whether it will be tomorrow or it will be next week. But every effort is being made to ensure that the Bills are before this House before it adjourns for Christmas. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member for Emuhaya was concerned about the---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would not like to interrupt the Prime Minister, but when I sought the earlier clarification it was really a matter of

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am giving a framework. You will now have to ask the relevant Ministers, but I am telling the hon. Member that the instructions have come from my office to those particular Ministers. I do not work in the Ministries. I give instructions and tell them that this is the time limit within which you need to do it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Member for Emuhaya is concerned about the fate of the employees of the local authorities. Let me tell him that the devolved system of government will actually take over from the local authorities. So, it is assumed that the staff of the local authorities will be absorbed by the incoming county governments. That is why there is no special provision that has been made regarding their fate. With regard to how the revenue will be shared, these are governments themselves. In other words, the devolved systems are governments themselves. It is not the responsibility of the Central Government to prepare the budgets for the devolved governments. Each and every devolved government will have its own budget prepared, discussed by its own assembly and approved. That is where they will deal with the allocations, for example, how much they will use for development and how much they will use for recurrent purposes. So, we do not want, at that level, to micromanage the devolved units, otherwise, it will just be an extension of the Central Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Mbau was concerned about how the quarter will be used. The quarter comes to about Kshs203 billion. This is what is available to the county governments for the last quarter of this financial year. That is on the basis of 33 per cent of the total sharable revenue that is raised by the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA). That is why it was necessary for this House to pass the Bill on sharing of that revenue. Now that the formula is out, the Commission on Revenue Allocation has already worked out how much each and every county government will receive in that quarter. For example, a county like Isiolo will receive about Kshs2.3 billion while Tana River County will receive Kshs3.1 billion and so on and so forth. I have already said that before the county governments come into place, the budgeting will be done by the Ministry of Local Government, which is in charge of devolution, until the new national Government and county governments come into place. The county governments will then be in a position to prepare their own budgets. Now, hon. Prof. Kaloki and hon. Amina Abdalla have come back to the issue of the chiefs. Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issues that are being raised are issues that have been on the table for a long time. You remember when we were at the Bomas of Kenya during the debates for the new Constitution, the issue of devolution and decentralisation was very key and central. In fact, it is one of the issues over which there was no agreement. That is the reason why the Bomas Draft as originally proposed was never approved. There were those who were insisting on the retention of the centralized system of Government and there were those who wanted a proper devolved system of Government.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My point of order is that the Prime Minister has answered by providing us with what his opinion is on the matters of reforming the Provincial Administration. My question is: As a Kenyan and as a Member of this House, I have a constitutional right to be given information but within the purview of the Prime Minister. He has made very serious allegations that a meeting took place to campaign for a particular political party. Failure of giving us the documentary evidence as a presidential candidate, it could just be misusing the Floor of the House to campaign for his party. So, I think it is not in order for the Prime Minister to refuse to answer my question by refusing to give documentary evidence.

Order! Hon. Amina Abdalla, whether or not you think it is in order, that will be your opinion. But as to who determines whether or not it is in order, that is my prerogative. I have not determined that it is out of order. This matter will have to rest there. It is clear that the Prime Minister can receive information, whether it is documentary, electronic, oral or verbal. He has said he received that information in his capacity as the Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya. What else would you want? Go and verify it elsewhere. If you have counter evidence, table it. That is the way to go hon. Amina Abdalla. Anything short of that, I am afraid will not pass. So, I find that the matter must rest there. Next Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Crops Bill, Bill No.59 of 2012 be now read a Second Time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Crops Bill, 2012 will replace the Agricultural Act, Cap.318 of 1948 and another 13 Acts that are no longer necessary. The Agricultural Act, Cap.318 is old, archaic and obsolete. The following are a few examples:- In that Act which was drawn up in 1948 it was stated that all of Kenya except the North Eastern Province was to be governed by the Act. Obviously, we can no longer have

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this early opportunity to commend the Minister for Agriculture for bringing this Bill to the House, especially for two main reasons: One, this Bill does confirm, beyond any reasonable doubt that agriculture which remains the mainstay of the economy of this country has continued to operate under obsolete laws which were enacted during the colonial days, some dating as back as 1923. Many of these laws have been restrictive and have not been able to provide an enabling environment for the kind of modern agriculture that this country needs. The second reason is that this Bill confirms that we have and continue to face the challenge of multiplicity of legislation. There have been too many laws that make it difficult to deal with matters related to agriculture in a coherent and effective manner. Therefore, this Bill comes at the correct time and I am particularly pleased to note that the Bill has also taken due cognizance of the new structure of Government and has paid due regard to the role of the national and county governments in the development of crops, pursuant to the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution. This demonstrates that the Bill has paid due regard to the new Constitution and is also responsive to the needs of devolution. It is also impressive to note the declaration of schedule crops as provided in Clause 7 of the Bill. Since it is the first time it is being revised since 1948 it is really incredible. The schedule is comprehensive and includes all crops that are important for this country. That is another commendable step by the Bill. Mr. Speaker, Sir, of great significance is the establishment of the Commodities Fund that is provided for in Clause 9 of the Bill. If you look at the provisions of Clause 9 with regard to the Commodities Fund, you will say that this is what this country has been waiting for to ensure that agriculture is better funded through levies, development partners and grants from the Government. Agriculture, without any doubt requires more funds so that it can grow as fast as we have seen infrastructure grow in the last ten years. We need this growth so that we can get away from the dehumanizing situation of famine or relief food that we so often see in most parts of the country including in my constituency known as Budalangi. We also need this growth so that we can remove poverty and helplessness from our people who live in the rural areas who constitute 70 per cent of our population. Looking at this Bill, I could go on and on but in the interest of time, let me once again commend the Minister who has been progressive and has driven the reform agenda of taking this sector to the next level admirably. With those remarks, I beg to second the Crops Bill, 2012.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Bill because I am pleased that the idea of scheduled crops is being done away with. The idea of scheduled crops was used to dupe farmers. At the Coast, we had two scheduled crops namely, cashew nuts and bixa. Some very powerful people, after acquiring the cashew nut factory

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank the Minister for bringing this Bill. I would like to indicate that I am not too sure as to whether I want to support or oppose this Bill because I would have wished to get some clarifications from the Minister in relation to this Bill. First, in relation to a recent Bill that the Minister brought that sought to do what she says this Bill seeks to do, which is to consolidate the whole lot within the agricultural sector--- I am wondering why we need another Crop Bill if what she was seeking to do is to consolidate. Why do we have this as a standalone? The Minister should also know that because we are really short of time and since she has several Bills - she is rushing through them - she should speak more exhaustively towards them and then we speak less on them. We want to spend less time with the experts as the Minister explains and the rest of us should understand what she is saying so that we do not raise too many queries. I would like the Minister to clarify why we do not have the definition of the word “crop”. We only have a schedule that defines what “schedule crops” are. I would like to know what the definition of “crop” is, especially in light of the Plant Varieties Act which the Minister brought here and we passed. How

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to support this Bill and congratulate the Ministry for coming up with this Bill. It is time for reforms and changes to show Kenyans and the public in general that, as the Government and Parliament, we will always take care of their interests. This is going to help to separate what has been lumped together in the agriculture sector. It is only specific to the crop aspect of agriculture. There are several laws concerning tea and coffee, just like it has been said, which this Bill is trying to consolidate. I think then it would make it easier even for whoever is handling this. It is also going to help in the management or crop husbandry. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have got areas where people just go and plant without even conducting research or carrying out some kind of survey to see whether certain crops can be planted or developed. Sometimes, it ends up being a lot of waste. I hope there will be zoning of areas so that they can be specific for certain crops. There are places like Mumias, where we grow sugar-cane. When some people realize that sugar-cane takes a lot of time - three or four years to mature – they plant maize and other

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Bill. We agree that agriculture remains the main economic stay for this country. It is so important that we streamline the laws and regulations governing this sector. I want to thank the Minister for moving with speed. She had promised previously to come up with harmonized Bills. Having gone through the Bill, I also have some concerns which I am sure the Minister will address as she responds. I am not sure whether this Bill will achieve the intended objective, particularly, when we lump all the crops and we have got issues to do with penalties. I do not know how all the crops can be uniform. When I look at Schedule I of all the scheduled crops, I can see crops like tea and sugar-cane combined with maize, rice and beans. When you look at this, it looks like you will need to have a license to go and deal with those crops. I do not understand whether that will be practical to require every family that grows maize or beans to have licences to do that. Probably, the Minister will have to clarify that. Secondly, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Bill presupposes that the Authority that will be established will manage the entire sector. I do not see the justification as to why we should have another fund under this Crops Bill which, in my own view, is an additional levy to the farmers. Once we have an Authority which is funded by the Government, why should we still want to establish another fund? That means taxing the farmers more on their crops to do the functions which the Central Government ought to do and not a fund. In my own view, I think we may not achieve what we wanted. In fact, we may discourage farmers from going into farming by having these levies. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, where we have made reference to the Cabinet Secretary imposing levies, I would wish to see a situation where Parliament is

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you most sincerely for this opportunity. I want to commend the Minister and the Ministry officials for this Bill that is before us. It is puzzling to see or remember that we have always said agriculture is the mainstay of our economy. It has taken us about 40 years to repeal some of the sections of the Act or even some of the laws that have made this industry not very useful to many who have tried a hand at it. All the same, I think it is better late than never. We want to thank the Minister for having come to deal with the laws that have not been very kind to farmers. As I stand to support this Bill, I am almost at the same point as Dr. Kones where you are not quite certain that you are supporting this Bill for the good of the farmer or you will be doing justice to the farmer. We have faith in the Minister and the Ministry officials. I know we are pressed for time but I believe this is the kind of Bill that requires the kind of work the Minister is doing so that we can quite understand what the Ministry wants to achieve. Other than just consolidating the Acts together under one Bill, what is the greater good in that exercise? I hope there will be time for one to get convinced. I want to support the Bill all the same. I believe that by the time we come to the Third Reading, a number of issues that are not clear will have been cleared. Again a number of the issues I wanted to mention may have been mentioned but let me just mention them. One is that I am encouraged by Section 12 because it appears we are now encouraging even the private sector to get to a point where perhaps we can produce fertilizers for ourselves. I also recognize that in Section 13, we are repealing the Pyrethrum Act Cap.340 which has

Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Ninasimama kuunga mkono na kumpongeza Waziri Sally Kosgei kwa kuleta Mswada huu hapa ili tuujadili. Wakulima nchini Kenya wamekuwa na matatizo mengi sana. Kwa sababu ya matatizo ambayo wamekuwa nayo, hawakufanya kazi na kupata mavuno kulingana na nguvu walizozitumia. Ninataka kuzungumzia sana swala la halmashauri ambayo Waziri atabuni ili kuhakikisha kuwa Wakenya wanapata lishe bora and vile vile uongezaji wa thamani ya mavuno ambayo wakulima wamekuwa wakipata. Pia, kuna swala la unyunyizaji maji mashambani. Jukumu hili limepatiwa Wizara ya Maji, lakini lilikuwa nzito na linatakiwa kuangaliwa kwa undani ili wale wakulima wenye kunyunyizia mashamba yao maji waweze kufanya kazi na Serikali ili kuhakikishia kuwa maji haya yameweza kufika na kuwawezesha kupata kiwango cha chakula cha kuwawezesha kupata lishe bora. Vile vile, maeneo kama ya kwetu - upande wa Taveta - ambapo wakulima wetu wanakuza ndizi kwa wingi, vitunguu na nyanya, wamekuwa wakiteseka sana kwa sababu hawana vyeti vya kumiliki ardhi. Kwa hivyo, hawawezi kupata mikopo inayostahili. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nimefurahi kuwa kumetajwa hazina ya kuweza kuwasaidia wakulima wapate pesa za kuweza kununua mbolea za kuwasaidia kuweza kupata chakula na mavuno kwa wingi. Hii ni kwa sababu watu wetu wengi ni wale wenye mashamba madogo madogo. Hazina hii itaweza kuwasaidia wakulima nchini kote. Ni hazina ambayo ninatumai wakulima wote nchini wamekuwa wakiingojea ili waweze kufanya kazi zao bila wasiwasi. Hazina hii itawawezesha kupata pesa za kutosha ili waweze kupata mavuno vilivyo. Uuzaji wa mavuno nchini na nje ya nchi ni kitu ambacho kimetatiza watu wengi sana kwa sababu maeneo yetu yana barabara mbovu. Kwa hivyo inabidi wakulima katika maeneo haya kutumia pesa nyingi ili waweze kupeleka mavuno yao sokoni. Mara nyingi, mavuno mengine yanaharibikia njiani kwa sababu ya shida za uchukuzi. Ninatumai kwamba bima ya mimea na mavuno itakuwa muhimu sana kwa sababu itawasaidia wakulima ambao wamepata hasara haswa wakati wa ukame na mafuriko. Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda, vile vile, ningependekeza kuwa dada yangu, Dkt. Sally, aweke mstari wa mbele swala la kuandikisha wafanyakazi wa kutosha ili wakulima waweze kupewa masomo ya kutosha ili wafanye kilimo cha kisasa na sio cha zamani. Kule mashambani mara nyingi wale wakulima wamezoea kulima kulingana na mila na desturi zetu. Lakini wakipatiwa wafanyakazi ambao wamefunzwa ukulima wa kisasa, watafundishwa. Lakini hatuwezi kuwa na wafanyakazi hawa kama vyuo vikuu haviwezi kusomesha watu wa kutosha katika maswala ya ukulima. Kama hawataweza kuwasomesha wanafunzi wengi ili waweze kwenda hadi mashinani kuwafunza wakulima jinsi ya kufanya kazi, basi yote haya tunayoyafanya yataishia patupu. Hii ni kama hatutaweza kupata wafanyakazi wa kutosha.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to, first of all, congratulate the Minister for bringing this Bill. This Bill is very important because it is consolidating so many laws on crops that have been retrogressive in agricultural production of these crops. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have more than 20 laws on various crops. Because of this the management and planning of these crops has been haphazard. There has been a lot of conflict and interest. That is why you will find that quite a number of crops have collapsed. We have had very many boards that manage particular crops. This is a big cost on the Exchequer and on the Ministry. So, it is important that we consolidate all these laws into one law. I want to congratulate the Minister for doing so. However, there are a number of issues in this Bill that need to be relooked at and if possible amendments made at the appropriate time. First and foremost, we need to define specifically what we mean by “scheduled crop” and “non-scheduled crop,” because this is very important. You will find crops like maize, sorghum and beans are under the category of “scheduled crop.” If a crop, according to this Bill, is a scheduled crop, you need registration for you to grow it. I think this is not correct because there are certain food crops that are grown by everybody. Therefore, we need to be very clear on this aspect so that our small-scale farmers do not find that for them to grow maize or beans they will have to get a licence. This can also become a major problem. That is one area that I believe we will need to have some amendments. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we also need to have some amendments under Clause 9, on the establishment of the Commodities Fund. This is a very good fund. If this fund is well managed, it will really promote the production of various crops in this country. This is because currently, the Ministry gets very little money for growing various crops. Therefore, having a dedicated fund will really promote crop production. However, looking at the sources of funds to this Commodities Fund, I find that most of it comes from levies charged on scheduled crops. Again, I can imagine that you will not charge a levy on food crops like maize or sorghum. So, I would like the Minister to look at other sources because it is the responsibility of the Government to ensure that this country has adequate food. We must get money from the Consolidated Fund because any country that cannot feed her people is not worthy calling itself a sovereign State. So, under this fund, we have no choice, but to get money from the Consolidated Fund with the approval of Parliament. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one other area where I am very happy is that this Bill is proposing that the Ministry will be able to designate certain areas for growing certain crops. Currently, people choose to grow crops anywhere regardless whether those areas are suitable or not. As a result, they face many challenges. For example, people are growing maize in arid areas without irrigation. So, under this Bill different areas will be designated for growing certain crops. We must make sure that we follow certain agronomical procedures before we decide what variety of crop to grow in those areas. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also like this Bill because it is giving many incentives to our farmers to produce food. Currently, we are not giving incentives to our

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me start by thanking the Minister and her entire staff for initiating far-reaching reforms in the agricultural sector. You realize that this Bill is reforming the Act that has been there for the last 64 years which has been an impediment to agricultural improvement in this country. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to the Bill, we expect a lot of activities to improve the agricultural sector in this country. We expect to see job creation for the youth and proper utilization of land. Every year, we lament that we do not have enough maize stocks in our silos. It is high time that the Ministry took really bold steps to improve the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) stocks. As the population of this country continues to increase, we must make sure that there is enough food.

Thank you, Mr. Njuguna. Now we go to Mr. Baiya who seems to be the last one to contribute to this Bill.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also want to congratulate the Minister for bringing this very important Bill. For the first time, this country will have a law that seems to develop policies that address the country’s interests as opposed to the desperate laws that we had before. Those laws really did not have any apparent coordinated agenda as far as the country’s interests are concerned. The fact that most of these laws were inherited by the country from the colonial days, it is a big statement about the state of the Government for the last 50 years of Independence. The failure by the Government to develop policies that help the farmers have actually delegated the farmer to the periphery where they are over-exploited by the players and brokers who manipulate the entire industry both locally and internationally.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. I specifically want to congratulate the Minister for correcting a very serious anomaly which has been in this country since Independence. That is the Agriculture Act, Cap. 318 of 1948 which has been in place. This has been very discriminatory. In its opening or introductory remarks, it says it will take care of agriculture or crop production in the whole country save or except for the former Northern Frontier District. As you will realize, that is very discriminative. It was treating northern Kenya as if it is not part of this country. This Bill intends to correct this very serious anomaly. I congratulate the Minister for the good job she is doing in this Ministry.

Hon. Members, noting that there is no further interest in this matter; I now call upon the Minister to reply.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me, first of all, thank everyone who has contributed. Let me assure you that we have taken note. Your contributions are most valuable. They will be reflected in the amendments by the time we come to the Committee Stage. However, let me say that this was not an easy Bill to draw up because we are working through massive legislation which is by and large out modeled, but our aim was to make life easy for farmers. If it is not clear, our intention was to have better access to inputs. As it is now, this is done informally. There is nothing to tie anybody to give anybody any inputs. However, with this Bill, that is definitely assured. We want farmers to have access to credit. This has been a subject of discussion in this House for some time. This Bill will make it mandatory for the state to have that. The extension workers are extremely useful. This Bill makes it mandatory for farmers to have access to this. There is a question that needs clarification and it will be re-discussed, although we have discussed it before. Please feel free to submit your own amendments as usual. That is the question of taxation. There are those who feel it should be done at the county

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Kenya Agricultural Research Bill, Bill No.60 of 2012, be now read a Second Time. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is even going to be shorter than the other one. I know you do not like things being short, but it will be shorter. You like them long, but I like them short. This Bill is to consolidate research. It is really an attempt to bring together the “R” and “D”; the research and development which are so scattered in this country. As it is now, the whole research section in agriculture which started in the 1960s was a simple small department in the Ministry of Agriculture. This has now grown extensively, but grown in a most wildly way to the extent that we have lots of institutions, each of them pursuing parallel research with no meeting point for this research to be used. We think this is a waste of resources. We think that we have many scientists; 540 PhD holders are involved in full time, as well as others. But their research cannot be utilized well because it does not reside in the same house. What is worse is that, in fact, it is not known to one scientist what it is that another has researched into. Therefore, the loser is the farmer and the country. Our aim is simply very small. That is to create an apex body to better manage and co-ordinate agricultural research, so as to benefit from economies of scale, bring about efficiency by avoiding duplication of activities and provide for a critical mass of scientific competences in all our commodity and factor research into all our activities.

Madam Temporary Deputy, I wish to second the Kenya Agricultural Research Bill. The Minister has articulated quite ably merits of this Bill. If we are going to achieve our Vision 2030, it is absolutely necessary that we consolidate and organize our research in agriculture. With those few remarks, I beg to second.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want congratulate the Minister. This is something that should have been done sometimes ago. As she rightly said, there are number of research institutions competing for limited resources when it comes to “R” and “D”. Many a times the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. I think basically this whole Bill is to rationalize and harmonize this and not centralize it. I hope the Bill will concentrate on rationalizing, harmonizing and synergizing, so that we can get the best from our brains, and have them work in concrete manner towards concrete goals and result-oriented objectives. I can only suggest that as the Minister said “ R” and “D” are the basis; they are going to be the future of our

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also stand to support this Bill. Institutions start as small units, but at the end of the day, they become very useful. This is what has been happening and the Minister has said it. I think initially with no foresight and not knowing what they were supposed to do. Maybe, it was just an idea of one single person. However, in the process, they have ended up showing that they can be very useful. The only thing is the enclosure in which they existed has persisted. Even the way the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI) was constituted before sometimes end up being just a single person’s unit. You only know an institution by seeing the blue vehicles with blue number plates and then you are told they belong to KARI. I think with the changes that are coming up now and the opening up by this Bill, Kenyans will know. Look at the farms they have in Naivasha. If you go and look at what they have there, it is not controlled. They have large farms and animals, but the information is not even known by the rest of Kenyans. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to have people who want to do dairy animal rearing to come and see how it is done from those research institutions. Mr. Shakeel has said that this country is number two to South Africa in producing milk. But that milk only comes from one place and yet, this country has got the capacity to produce more. People in my place in Vihiga buy milk from here. They buy Tuzo and

. I have been talking about this because when I spend some little money like Kshs2,000, they buy it, that money comes back this way. I think if the information about those institutions can get to Kenyans, we can arrange trips for our farmers to come and see what goes on there. They can learn some skills and scientific methods of doing some of these things. I think this would help the country. It is a very good idea that the Minister has brought up this so that everybody can be awake to what we have as a country. I beg to support.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to support this Bill, first of all, because I was privileged to work in the Ministry of Agriculture as a research officer at the National Agricultural Laboratories (NAL). I was a plant pathologist. During those days, we had the money, the equipment and we were able to carry out very good research that made agricultural production in this country very famous. Before that, we used to have the East African Agricultural and Forest Research Organization (EAAFRO). That organization was so famous in the world in the area of research and forestry. However, all those organizations broke down when the East African Community (EAC) collapsed. Therefore, by us consolidating all those research institutes into one organization, we are doing a very good thing. We are bringing the researchers under one umbrella and, therefore, they will be able to coordinate all the activities of research and development and be able to come up with very good research findings that will improve the agricultural sector in this country.

Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, very briefly, let me laud the Minister for this very well thought out consolidated Bill. I would like to indicate that this country will never move forward without adequate research. It is evident in some of those countries that have already set aside huge amounts of money for research. They have very rapidly improved their economic lives. For example, look at Israel which is in a very dry region. We get fruits from Israel. Why? Because they have invested heavily in research and that is bearing fruits. Why are we importing rice and sugar from Sudan and Egypt? It is because those countries have also taken research very seriously. Why is Kenya Airways now importing the most modern aircraft from Brazil? That is because Brazil, which is relatively a third world country, has taken research very seriously. North Korea has become a very strong country because of the resources it has invested in that area. Scandinavian countries like Denmark and others are the butter market of Europe. That is because they have taken research seriously. The Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology (JKUAT) started so well with banana tissue development. We want to see better variety of bananas being grown in all parts of this country if the required seeds are sent out to the county. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, potato research at Tigoni and other research centres should also be supported. The sweetest pineapples are being imported from Uganda. Why have we ignored research in our own areas here? I would urge the Minister that, as she prepares her budget to make sure that research is given adequate funds, so that it can benefit this country. Better wages for researchers must also be guaranteed. That is because the best brains like those 540 PhD holders that have been mentioned by her are likely to exit to other countries where remuneration is better. Finally, better research will trigger employment and expansion of activities geared to improve our political, social and economic lives in this country. With those few remarks, I fully support this Bill.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me thank the Minister and the Ministry officials, once again, for this Bill that seeks to consolidate a number of other Bills that were there before, but were scattered all over. This Bill is able to bring quite a number of institutions together, not less than eight. Like other Speakers have said, it is important that we undertake research in this country. I come from the County of Nyandarua which has a huge agricultural potential.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to start by thanking the hon. Minister Dr. Kosgei and the Committee of Parliament for ensuring that the promises they made to this House that they will consolidate most of these Bills and bring them before this Parliament expires is commendable. We are used to the Government’s empty promises which come to naught. So, when you get a few who are serious like her, it must be appreciated. I am here because of KARI. My serious scientific engagement was as a research scientist at KARI. KARI gave me a scholaship to study although I must admit that I have

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill wholeheartedly and thank the Minister for putting it together. I know that she has been struggling for a long time to have this Bill under discussion on the Floor of this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very happy that this Bill is bringing some sanity into the research institutions by classifying the type of research that is required. Therefore, it is making it possible to specialize in particular areas, specifically related to food crop production, livestock research, fisheries and so on. As I continue, we know that there is climate change. Unless we have continuous research, as climate changes it calls for different research capabilities and introduces new challenges. My constituency used to produce many bananas, but unfortunately, because of changing climates we are no longer able to produce that crop or not as much or efficiently because of climate change. We hope that this sort of research will be applicable to that area as well, so that it can be used to enhance production of that particular crop.

Yes, Madam Minister!

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me begin by thanking all these learned colleagues of mine, especially those who have had a lot to do with this field. Your contributions will enrich the final product when we sit down to do this Bill at the Committee stage. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, however, for the purposes of the HANSARD, let me say this right away. On the Fourth Schedule, as you will see, we have among the institutions, the Kenya Forestry Research Institute (KEFRI). By mutual agreement with the relevant Ministry, we decided to leave this one out because there is always a contradiction between agriculture and conservation. Conservation and forestry, especially in view of climate change, is best left to handle its own schedule. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have listened very carefully. Research in development is extremely important. It cannot be gainsaid. It can only progress with enough funding. Currently, the situation is that our research institutions benefit more from external funding than from this country. It is the same thing that one can say for the rest of agriculture. That is a shame. I think collectively, we have to bring this back home. If you look at a country like Japan, you will find that the Science and Technology Ministry is a top Ministry. In our country we do not seem to understand that we cannot develop without this. We cannot always rely on someone else. We have taken these sentiments on board. If any of you has anything to add, please, as you know we will still go to the Committee. We shall be moving amendments, in any case, based on your contributions for which I thank you all most heartily. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to add on to a point that the Minister has just raised. What the Government was doing under CDF was not noticed. It was allocated 2.5 per cent and it is like the CDF was allocated 97.5 per cent. So, if you could look into ways of restructuring the same thing, I am sure you will have more money going down and having more effect. I do not know whether even the 7 per cent that will remain at the Head Office will go down. So, you should as well look at that very beautiful idea.

Ordinarily, you would be out of order because you should have informed the Minister when she was talking about it. But, nonetheless, I believe the sentiments have been taken on board. Hon. Members, I now put the Question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Science, Technology and Innovation Bill, 2012. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is globally recognised that science, technology and innovation is essential for the economic growth and competitiveness of all nations. Science, technology and innovation is also a key component of social integration, sustainable development and poverty eradication based on equity---

Order! Hon. Margaret Kamar, the tradition is very simple. You read the Bill as it is verbatim word for word and then you can put in the rest of the information after that. Proceed, Madam Minister.

Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the Science, Technology and Innovation Bill be now read a Second Time.

You can now continue.

Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is globally recognized that science, technology and innovation is essential for the economic growth and competitiveness of all nations. Science, technology and innovation is also a key component of social integration, sustainable development and poverty eradication based on equity, freedom, justice, governance, peace and prosperity. At the international level, science, technology and innovation acts as a tool of international co-operation and solidarity. It is used for knowledge and information and facilitating globalization with human development while concomitantly strengthening national governance and acting as a vesture of common heritage and international co- operation and solidarity. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kenyan Vision 2030 pillars spring from Science, Technology and Innovation (STI) foundation. The Vision and the Constitution of Kenya 2010 explicitly places a premium on the generation and management of knowledge and the need to raise productivity and efficiency with the aim of transforming Kenya to a knowledge-based society. The Vision and the Constitution recognise the critical roles played by research and development in accelerating economic development of the country. Given globalization and the imperative of knowledge-based economies, there is need for transformation to achieve the goals of becoming a middle mid-term economy by 2030. This calls for a critical revisit and application of science, research, technology and innovation as an engine and driver of knowledge economies in general and knowledge- based economies, in particular.

Order, Minister! You have a balance of 50 minutes to proceed when the matter gets on the Order Paper next. Hon. Members, it is now time for interruption of business. The House is, therefore, adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 29th November, 2012 at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.30 p.m.