Hon Members, I have a message from the Senate, and this is on the appointment of Senators and Members of the National Assembly to the Parliamentary Service Commission. Hon. Members, under Standing Order No. 41(2) relating to messages from the Senate, I wish to convey the following message from the Hon. Senator Ekwee Ethuro, Speaker of the Senate. That pursuant to Article 127 (2)(c) of the Constitution, and further to the message from the National Assembly to the Senate on the matter of appointment of Senators and Members of the National Assembly to the Parliamentary Service Commission, the Senate on Tuesday 21st May, 2013 concurred with the National Assembly on the appointment of the following members:- (i) The Hon. Senator Sammy Leshore (ii) The Hon. Senator Beth Mugo (iii) The Hon. Senator David Musila (iv) The Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi, M.P (v) The Hon. Regina Changorok Nyeris, M.P (vi) The Hon. Aden Keynan, M.P (vii) The Hon. Gladys Wanga, M.P. Pursuant to the provision of Article 127 of the Constitution of Kenya, the Hon. Members now stand appointed to the Parliamentary Service Commission. Thank you. Hon members, can I allow the Members to sit, I have a second communication to make. Please, those ones at the back come in.

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Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I do know that this particular Bill; The Division of Revenue Bill, has been contentious. I would like you to make some clarifications. I think it should be understood that really the interest when I raised this issue before the Bill was brought back was not really to downplay the role of the Senate or rather to interfere with devolution. I must confess that I am one of those supporters of devolution and I must confess that those who know me well know the role I played when we were doing the Public Finance Management Act, to make sure that we protect the devolved resources. Even though we are supposed to do that, it is important to do it within the law.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, with your permission, if you could just allow me two or three minutes because the Speaker had actually made a ruling that it was a mistake to refer this Bill in the first place to the Senate. Since then I have heard Senators insisting that they have a role to play in this Bill. I have equally read on the newspapers an advert put up by the Speaker of the Senate and with all due respect, I have a feeling that probably the Speaker to the Senate did not read what my concerns were and so he did not address any of my concerns. This is what I want to say. If you read Article 95(4) of the Constitution, it is very clear that the National Assembly has a responsibility to determine the allocation of national revenue between the levels of governments as provided in Part 4 of Chapter 12, that is, the national Government and the county government. Article 96 talks about the role of the Senate. It is clear that the Senate determines the allocation of national revenue amongst counties. That has to do with the County Allocation of Revenue Bill as provided for in Article 217. There is nowhere indicated that the Division of Revenue Bill shall be a function of the Senate. However, more telling, and that is where I want the ruling of the Chair is Article 110. Under this Article-- - Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish the Clerk would allow you to listen to me. This is because I will require your ruling.

You also sometimes require their advice.

Yes, but it would be important to listen first and then advise from a point of information. I do not know what he was advising on before he listens to what I

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Thank you, hon. Mbadi. I have indulged you because I know the passion with which you hold issues connected to the Budget. I will, however, stick by my earlier ruling which I think will give us a way forward. We need to ventilate more on this. I passed the buck to the Budget and Appropriations Committee – I believe you are a Member of that Committee. Let the Committee ventilate on this matter. Let it weigh the pros and cons and then bring us a Report here. We will then ventilate further all those issues that you have put in place. Clearly, we cannot afford to lose a Division of Revenue Bill. Therefore, we must get all the information required to ensure that we are properly guided on how we are going to proceed. I will stand by what I had ruled earlier. Let us wait for the Committee now that it is seized of the matter. It will bring a Report before the House at the earliest possible time. This is a very important Bill that we need to pass very soon so that this matter is brought to rest.

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to Article 166(1)(a) of the Constitution of Kenya and the provisions of the Standing Order No.45 this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the Vetting of nominee for appointment to the position of Deputy Chief Justice laid on the Table today Tuesday 28th May, 2013 and approves the appointment of Lady Justice Kalpana Rawal to the position of Deputy Chief Justice of the Judiciary in the Republic of Kenya.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairman, Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security following incidents that have happened in Molo Constituency. Armed gangsters donning police uniforms have been erecting road blocks and terrorizing residents. Just to mention a few cases, on 14th May, 2013, these gangsters hijacked a lorry and a matatu. On Sunday, the same gangsters hijacked a bus full of Gor Mahia fans and another

after which they raped a woman. I am requesting for this Statement because this road block is about seven kilometres from the Molo Police Division. Since this has happened twice, the people of Molo and Kenyans in general are concerned that because this is a major road heading to Uganda we need to get a Ministerial Statement explaining how gangsters are wearing police uniforms. They are also suspected to be holding G3 Riffles and terrorizing Kenyans repeatedly immediately after the police move away from the road block. For the information of the Committee, these incidents are happening at the Kibunja Trading Centre.

Request from hon. Chris Wamalwa. I hope it has been approved.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to request for a Statement from the Leader of the Majority Party over the increasing incidents of insecurity in Trans Nzoia County. Over the weekend, a Police Reservist by the name Masika was shot dead in the night. There are also complaints from the residents that the top leadership of the Police Force in the Trans Nzoia County, about 70 per cent, is from one ethnic community. We have cases of policemen who have stayed there for more than five years.

Has your Statement been approved, hon. John Nakara? You need to get your Statement approved first before you can request on the Floor. So, I see no other Statement. Therefore, next Order!

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation on the Constitutionality of Gazette Notice Nos. 2885, 2886, 2887 and 2888 as Published on The Kenya Gazette of 1st March, 2013, by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission, laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, May 23, 2013.

First and foremost, on behalf of the Committee on Delegated Legislation, I want to say that the Committee looked into the constitutionality of the Kenya Gazette No.2825, 2826, 2827 and 2828 as published by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission on 1st March, 2013. The mandate of the Committee is derived from Standing Order No.210, which is to inter alia, consider if any statutory instrument is in accordance with the Constitution, Act under which it is made or any other written law. The Standing Order 210 provides that if the Committee finds the statutory instrument is not in accordance with the Constitution or the Act under which it is made or any other written law, it may recommend to the House that the Assembly resolves that all or part of the statutory instrument be annulled.

The Committee held four sittings to discuss the issue that was before it. I wish at this point to thank the office of the Speaker and that of the Clerk for the support they gave to my Committee. Indeed, also the staff who did a very commendable job. I also wish to thank the Members of the Committee on Delegated Legislation for their patience, sacrifice and endurance during the long sitting hours which gave rise to the report before the House now. It is now my pleasure, on behalf of the Committee on Delegated Legislation, to recommend to the House pursuant to the provisions of the Standing Order 210(5), that the House adopts the report.

It is important for the Members to know that the report has five parts. Part I is on introduction. Part II deals with the gazette notices which I have just mentioned. Part III, which is very important, is the Committee’s observations on the various issues touching on this subject. Part IV deals with the constitutionality of the Kenya Gazette notices. Finally and equally very important is Part V which gives the Committee’s recommendations. The Chair and the Members will recall that on 2nd May, 2013, hon. Linturi tabled a petition before the House pursuant to Standing Order No.225. This petition was referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation for consideration. The Committee went through the entire petition and looking at the content of the four Gazette Notices, the Committee was of the view that it raises serious constitutional issues which required very urgent resolution by this House. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to start by saying that we looked at the Constitutional provisions touching on Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). This is one of the constitutional commissions under Article number 230 of our Constitution and the Articles is so clear as to the mandate, the functions and the powers of SRC. Article 230 (4), states as follows:- “The powers and functions of the SRC shall be to –

(a) set and regularly review the remuneration and benefits of the State Officers.”

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Shame! Shame!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, it is shocking that the difference between the salary of the Governor and that of a Member of County Assembly is Kshs541,000.

Shame! Shame!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, how can Members of County Assemblies execute their oversight roles over an Executive Officer whose salary is Kshs541,000 more than what they earn? Then we are being told that the Commission evaluated our work. Can Parliament be blamed for raising this issue? The Commission said that they did an evaluation. I want to conclude my remarks by saying that the job of evaluation undertaken by the SRC in determining the ranking of State officers and determination of benefits of Members of Parliament is unconstitutional.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, the SRC took academic requirements into consideration in doing the evaluation. It is my humble submission that academic requirements are only relevant for appointment positions as they show the process through which one is required to go through prior to becoming eligible to hold an office. These requirements are clear in the Constitution. One becomes a Member of Parliament through a democratic process, which is more rigorous than that of appointment position. A parliamentary candidate must convince the electorate that he understands their needs, and that he can articulate their issues well in this House. Therefore, the job evaluation process tabled by the SRC did not take into account the provisions of Article 1(2) of the Constitution. What I am saying is important because it shows the House and the nation that the SRC acted contrary to the Constitution. I would like us to look at Article 1 of the Constitution, which says: “1 (1) All sovereign power belongs to the people of Kenya and shall be exercised only in accordance with the Constitution. (2) The people may exercise their sovereign power either directly or through their democratically elected representatives.”

Therefore, the evaluation process should not have been based on academic qualifications, as the SRC did. How do you quantify representation? It is not possible to use academic qualifications to do so. Articles 94, 95, 96 and 99 of the Constitution set out job description for Members of Parliament. So, as Members of Parliament, we occupy a very unique position. We are the only group of people whose job description is actually contained in the Constitution, under the Articles I have referred to. So, it is important that we recognise that fact. As I said earlier, it however took into account the provisions of Section 12 of the Salaries and Remuneration Act. Imagine a commission which violates its own Act of Parliament. I mean you are a commission and a law has been passed here setting out what you are supposed to do and you chose to ignore the provision of the Constitution. No wonder they were not able to comply with the Constitution because they were not even able to comply with their own statute.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Section 12 of the Salaries and Remuneration Act says:- “The Commission shall be guided by the principle of equal remuneration to persons for work of equal value.

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Thank you very much for the opportunity to second this important Motion. In doing so, I request the Members and the whole nation to be alive to the role of Parliament as defined by the Constitution in Article 94, particularly, Sub-articles (1), (2), (3), (4) and (5). Under (1), it says that:- “94 (1) The legislative authority of the Republic is derived from the people and, at the national level, is vested in and exercised by Parliament.

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Hon. Kaluma, confine yourself to the debate. If you want to bring another Motion on the Commissions, you can do that. Today we have a specific Motion that we are addressing ourselves to.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand properly directed. I will leave the Commissions. There is a recommendation of the Committee that in helping the nation, we need to exercise, as a House, the powers vested by the Constitution under Article 95,

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Ahsante sana Naibu Spika. Nachukuwa fursa hii kumshukuru Mwenyezi Mungu na wewe kwa fursa hii. Naipongeza Kamati ambayo ilifanya utafiti na kuleta Hoja hii muhimu mbele yetu.

Naibu Spika, Katiba hii inalinda haki za wanyama pia. Lakini wanyama hawasomi Katiba! Wale ambao walikuja na kuchinjia wanyama Langoni mwa Bunge, ningewaalika kabla hawajachinja nguruwe wasome Katiba kwanza.

Katika Kifungu 94 (1) cha Katiba ya Kenya kinatoa mamlaka ya kipekee itakapokuja kwa maswala ya utunzi wa sheria. Si Utawala ama Mahakama. Ni Bunge lenye mamlaka ya kutunga sheria.

Ni kweli hiyo!

Hatutaomba msaada kwa Tume ya Sarah Serem kutusaidia kama Wabunge kututungia Katiba ambaye haiambatani na vifungu vya Sheria ya nchi hii.

What is your point of order hon. Wanjiku Muhia?

On a point of order hon. Deputy Speaker. Thank you. I wish to bring to the attention of this House that there is a countrywide blackout. I am not sure if it could be a conspiracy between Sarah Serem and Kenya Power so that the citizens will only consume what the media gives them because the Chairman is giving a very comprehensive Report.

Okay. Thank you for that point of order. Endelea mhe. Wario. Can the relevant authorities confirm whether this is not a conspiracy against the citizens? What is happening with the microphone? Please, give Wario the microphone.

Ahsante mhe. Naibu Spika. Kifungu cha 94 (5) kinasema hivi:- Hakuna mtu, chuo au taasisi ambayo itatunga sheria bila kupewa fursa ya Kikatiba na Bunge hili. Sasa mimi nauliza: Kwani hii Tume ya Sarah Serem imetoa mamlaka hiyo wapi? Kifungu 41 cha Katiba kinasema: Kila mfanya kazi apewe huduma, aki na usawa.

Naibu Spika, nilikuwa katika Bunge la Tisa na najua mshahara wangu ulikuwa wa pesa ngapi. Nimekuja katika Bunge la Kumi na Moja. Ni nini kimebadilika kwa wajibu wangu kama Mbunge au wajibu wa Bunge hili? Tofauti ni nini? Ni nini inaongoza Tume hiyo kukata mshahara wangu kwa asilimia 57 bila kunihusisha mimi kama mfanyi kazi. Kipengele 41 cha Katiba kinamwambia: “Umekosea sheria.” Mhe. Naibu Spika, ukiangalia vile walivyofanya ranking, Kipengele cha 3 cha sheria za Kenya kimefanya ranking na kimemaliza maneno. Kipengele cha 3 kimetoa

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Thank Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. Job evaluation does not deal with individuals but with positions. So, we want to correct the perception out there that the job evaluation is about Members of Parliament. This is an office and Sarah Serem should know very well that when it comes to job evaluation, you do job analysis and come up with the ranking of the office. The current Members of Parliament will go and other Members of Parliament will come. Some of the factors that are considered when doing job evaluation are: Working conditions, academic backgrounds and decision making in terms of how sensitive are matters that Members of Parliament are supposed to make decisions on. When you look at the functions of the National Assembly, for example, under Article 95 (6), it states as follows:- “The National Assembly approves declarations of war and extensions of states of emergency.” In terms of looking at the sensitivity of this matter, only this one ranks Members of Parliament at a higher level. Again, when it comes to job evaluation, you are supposed to do the ranking; the pecking order, When you look at Article 152(2), it talks about the Cabinet. It states as follows:- “The President shall nominate and, with the approval of the National Assembly, appoint Cabinet Secretaries. That is the National Assembly which is part of Parliament. The National Assembly is the one that approves the Cabinet Minister but when it comes to ranking, she is ranking him ahead of you. That tells you the Serem Commission did not look at the functions of the National Assembly and the Senate.

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, it takes men and women made of very hard stuff to take a decision. It takes men and women like hon. (Mrs.) Odhiambo-Mabona to take such a unanimous decision; a decision that is meant to defend the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya. Not many people will see it that way. Many people out there will look at it and see it as a move by a clique or a group of Members of Parliament whose only intention is probably trying to safeguard what they are supposed to be taking as their package.

I also want to congratulate this House and tell this Parliament that it has a serious duty. It has an enormous task ahead of it to work within the Constitution, to defend it and to reclaim this country from the civil society.

This is the time! If there is time that every hon. Member should rise on his feet to talk and make comments for purposes of record with regard to the Report that is before this Committee, it is now. Why am I saying this? Looking at the manner in which the issues the hon. Members have handled especially in the gazette that we are debating here for purposes of annulment? Its unconstitutionality makes me start asking: Who is this in

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She was ranked number five!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, even though she was number five, I know the kinds of “wars” that were being fought here on the basis of regional representation, gender balance and many other issues that were being taken into consideration. The same applied to SRC. We know that some of the people who emerged numbers one and two during the interviews were said to be close to the former Prime Minister and the former President. Therefore, we could not always take number one and two because we had to deal with certain political considerations. As a House, we have to be careful next time. We must be able to unmask people appearing before the National Assembly and say that they will be bound by the rule of law and the Constitution in the execution of their mandates in whatever positions of leadership they will be seeking to occupy.

Finally, let me say that Parliament is the only body in this country, which has the mandate from the people of the Republic of Kenya to make laws. When a Commission or an individual sits somewhere and masquerades as Parliament to make instruments to enforce a law, and we do not stand up to say “No, this is wrong! We will be failing in our duties as Members of Parliament. I do not care when I stand by the truth. Irrespective of the number of pigs that will be brought to the entrance to Parliament Buildings, or the number of names I will be called; as long as---

Hon. Mary Emaase.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I want to start by complimenting the Committee on Delegated Legislation for its very comprehensive and objective Report. I stand to support the Motion for obvious reasons.

Article 94(4) is very clear that Parliament shall protect this Constitution and promote the democratic governance of this Republic. I wonder whether the Serem Commission factored in the mandates of Members of Parliament while determining the salary that is supposed to be paid to them. I am referring to the roles and responsibilities of Members of Parliament viz-a-viz commensurate remuneration. On this basis, I call upon the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) to ensure that we have a more vibrant Public Relations Department for this organisation. It is high time we demystified the image of this organisation because it seems that the Serem Commission is actually---

What is your point of order, hon. Justice Kemei?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.95 to request that the Mover of the Motion be called upon to reply.

I will give a chance to two more hon. Members. I can see that the mamas are in the House.

Please, proceed, hon. Emaase.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you for protecting me.

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Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Let me take this opportunity to, first of all, thank, congratulate and commend the Committee on Delegated Legislation for a thorough job that they have done within a very short time. I would recommend to those of us who have not read this Report to take their time and read it. This is a very detailed and reasonable Report. I have heard a lot of comments about the independence of the commissions that we have set up. It is true that they are independent but the question is: Do they have powers to unilaterally make laws through gazette notices? If we allow the Salaries and Remuneration Commission to make law through gazette notices, tomorrow, the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission will go ahead to review boundaries and gazette them, and we will not have a say because they will claim independence. Tomorrow, the Commission on Revenue Allocation, chaired by Cheserem, will go ahead to determine the formula of sharing revenue and gazette it. We have to put a stop to that behaviour. The commissions have been given independence. But the Constitution stipulates that those commissions must run through Acts of Parliament. The Committee has ably and eloquently explained that this Commission has attempted, through the Gazette Notice, to repeal very many Acts of Parliament, including the Salaries and Remuneration Act and the Pensions Act. More fundamentally, do you know that Sarah Serem and her Commission have repealed their own Act? The Salaries and Remuneration Commission Act has been repealed through that Gazette Notice. The Act states very clearly how the Commission should conduct its mandate, including how it should look at other recommendations. However, Sarah Serem’s Commission ignored all that and did what it wanted to do through a Gazette Notice. Does that not amount to repealing the Commission’s own operational Act? In my view, it does. I want to cite a constitutional provision, which I find very interesting. Remember that through that Gazette Notice, the Salaries and Remuneration Commission has done away with the pensions of Members of Parliament. What she has done, with her Commission, is to say that, henceforth, Members of Parliament shall not be entitled to pension. But what does the Constitution say in the Sixth Schedule? Section 32 of the Sixth Schedule is about pensions, gratuities and other benefits, and it says:- “The law applicable to pensions in respect of holders of constitutional offices under the former Constitution shall be either the law that was in force at the date on which those benefits were granted or any law in force at a later date that is not less favourable to the person.”

Hon. Deputy Speaker, that is the law governing the pensions of Members of Parliament. The Constitution says that you cannot change it to the detriment of the office

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Hon. Mbadi, your time is over.

Thank you very much and I support.

Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to congratulate and commend the Committee that has given us this Report. The SRC is the worst Commission we have got in this country. They have not done their work. I have no doubt they could not have done a better job because they are not qualified to do this job. I just want to add some of the laws which have been contravened by the SRC, to add on what has been given in the Report. One is Article 28 of the Constitution which says: “Every person has inherent dignity and the right to have that dignity respected and protected.” That SRC has put us into ridicule to the extreme point whereby we are compared with pigs. They have taken away our dignity and we must reclaim it. The other Article I wanted to add is Article 40(2) of the Constitution which says: “Parliament shall not enact a law that permits the State or any other person –

(a) to arbitrarily deprive a person of property of any description or of any interest I have over property of any description.” In our Constitution, Article 160, it has been stated very clearly that you cannot adjust or revise remuneration of judges of the Judiciary to their disadvantage. If we take what has been gazetted by the SRC, we will have violated Article 160. That is

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Hon. Jakoyo Midiwo, you will be the last so that we can move on to the other business.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Report and in so doing, I want to say that this House did not have to be treated to this. We did not have to do this but I believe it is the responsibility of this House, as the supreme law- making organ of this country, to stand in the way of impunity. The amount of disrespect the Serem Commission is showing to the political class in this country is not something this country can live with. The amount of disrespect we are getting from the CIC is not something this country should expect. No country under the sun or on earth is run by commissions. Countries are run by laws legislated by national assemblies, senates or both. The thought and imagination that a commission can sit somewhere and become independent of its creators is a fallacy! How?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, let me apologize because I was in the Finance Committee that interviewed that lady. I want to agree with hon. Linturi that she got this job due to other considerations and not her brains.

The way we have gone - that is the so-called regional balance - is going to kill this country. I want to agree with hon. Linturi that from now on, we must agree as a country that even though we look at other considerations, competence must be number one. That is because that lady is just incompetent. She is disrespectful. The Constitution says that nobody can make---

Hon. Deputy Speaker, is it in order for hon. Jakoyo to mention one Commissioner, when we know that, that Commission has other members? I would wish that he mentions the other incompetent commissioners other than Sarah Serem.

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Order, hon. Members! I also want to reiterate that we stick to the matter at hand and stop personalizing issues.

Hon. Deputy Speaker I will do that, but when she goes on television to say that Parliament cannot intimidate her, she is talking as an individual.

Yes!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, we cannot be intimidated by her. This is our right. We must talk to her. We are not saying anything other than her competence and her job. We have that right. We are paid to have that right. In the Gazette Notice she adds herself a salary. If you remember, she attempted to make her job permanent and we rejected it as a House. In that Gazette Notice, Nyachae gets a salary. This House said that nobody should earn more than the President. You have “a nobody” doing nothing earning more than our President and we should not say it?

Say!

We are going to say it. Hon. Deputy Speaker, let me tell this House and the nation at large. We merged wards in this House. Most of my ward representatives represent more people than 60 per cent of hon. Members sitting here and then you tell them: “You are going to earn Kshs79,000 from which we are going to slash some 31 per cent tax!” Then you want them to serve people better. That is a conspiracy to kill devolution! You cannot tell me that somebody earning Kshs40,000 can afford a motorbike in the village. It is not possible. We must address this. It is not just about Members of Parliament. If Serem had put our salary at Kshs542,000 even if you taxed 70 per cent but followed the law, I would not be questioning it. She has refused to follow the law and yet, she says that we cannot threaten her with our power to legislate. Those powers are given to us by the Constitution! We are dealing with a rogue person! Hon. Deputy Speaker, this House must play its role. I said it before that we must realize that we made mistakes. We were told to pass the Constitution and then come back to rectify the 20 per cent which is wrong. This is part of the 20 per cent.

Why do I say that? All the commissions put together have a combined workforce in Nairobi of 700. None of them makes less than Kshs500,000. I am talking about 700 people living in Nairobi and going around in GK vehicles. Is that what this country is going to spend its money on?

No!

The answer is no! This House has a responsibility. Merge the commissions. Kill some. The country will be on your side.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, in many countries, a job such as the one being done by the Serem Commission is done by an individual and a technical team. I said it here that part of the problem this country keeps having with the IEBC is that we have commissioners who behave like clerks. They want to do procurement; they do not want to do policy. So

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Order, hon. Members! Please, proceed and conclude hon. Jakoyo!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, we did not see in that Gazette Notice, for example, the Judiciary. The Constitution talks about the judges, but the Judiciary has been busy improving the life of everybody that works for it. So, what is so selective that she goes after politicians or political offices and do not talk about those other ones? She is not talking about the salary of a county commissioner. The county commissioners are today earning more than governors. It is a ploy and a plot to kill devolution. We cannot accept that. In conclusion, this Commission must go back to the drawing board and do what the law requires. The law requires that anything that they come up with, just like IEBC did, must come here for debate. Whatever they are trying to do will never work. They even try to make the position of Controller of Budget far less than that of the Auditor- General. The allocator of the money is less than the supervisor. That is what they are trying to do with Parliament. We can never agree to that. Let me say this very lastly to your staff. We are negating this Gazette Notice. Comply with the law as it was. We are aware that part of the resistance is within us. So, we must act and act within the law. We are requesting you, on record, that immediately this happens--- Remember that Nyachae is saying that we do not have the right. Ask him to refer to the Ringera or PLO case. He will know which powers we have in here.

I thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker.

Order, Members! I want to call upon the Mover to respond.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to thank Members for their contributions. The issues that have been raised are very weighty. I just plead that this Report be passed. It is important that the issues raised by the Members are taken into account. Parliament has spoken and you have heard the issues raised by Members. I am

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Hon. Members, I just want to confirm that we have the requisite number to pass that Resolution. So, we have the quorum and the numbers required to pass that Motion. Next Order!

Order Members! Can we have some order, please! If you are leaving, can you do so silently? We are moving to the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. What is happening with the microphones?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Article 166(1)(a) of the Constitution of Kenya and the provisions of Standing Order 45, this House adopts Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the Vetting of Nominee for Appointment to the Position of Deputy Chief Justice, laid on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, May 28, 2013, and approves the appointment of the Hon. Lady Justice Kalpana Hasmukhrai Rawal to the position of Deputy Chief Justice of the Republic of Kenya.

Chairman, there is too much commotion and movement in the House. Just allow them to retreat first.

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I am aware of the importance and the urgency of passing this Motion for purposes of constituting a full bench of the Supreme Court, but I am also obliged and I have an obligation to take part in this debate as a Member of Parliament in the full knowledge of the Committee findings and all what is contained in the Report. There are serious Motions that require us to approve names of people to serve in the various offices and considering the history that we have had with the just concluded kind of rogue officers, I am very afraid because I do not have a copy of the Report. The Report has not been given to the Members.

Order, hon. Linturi! Copies have been provided by the Chair.

Where are they? They are not here.

Please, there are copies. Maybe, they are not enough to go round. But the copies are there.

Nobody has it! Hon. Deputy Speaker, even if there could be, it is important to give the Members reports early enough, so that they have time to interrogate them. This is an ambush.

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to plead with you that a very dangerous trend is being set in this House. Two weeks ago, I was in the Appointment Committee and we debated sixteen names here without a report being before the House properly. There is no hurry in what we are doing, but let us do something for posterity. We shall be judged right. These Committees have had a chance

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Okay, Members, I realize you are making very grave accusations, if you can put it that way, but I understand where you are coming from. However, I need to plead with the House that the Report was tabled today and the notice was also given. But I also want to inform Members that as it happened with the Cabinet Secretaries, today also happens to be the last day. Remember that we have a constitutional requirement of 14 days. So, our 14 days will expire today. We had endeavored to provide the copies and a few Members have them. We have not had enough copies, but quite a number of Members have them. I want to urge the clerks to ensure that Members who do not have copies, at least, get them so that we can make some meaningful and informed contributions. I am hoping that, as the Chairman is moving the Motion, Members who do not have copies can be furnished with them. By the time the Motion is moved and seconded, Members will, at least, have the copies. They are not very long Reports. It is possible for you to quickly go through them before you make your contribution. So, I would urge the Members to allow us to continue with the moving of this Motion.

On a point of order hon. Deputy Speaker. The Tenth Parliament has been accused time and again even in this House of having rushed reports and, sometimes, I have heard when hon. Members here from the Tenth Parliament are shut down on the basis that they were part of making certain reports or passing certain laws. Therefore, we are precluded from raising issues about them.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, if you look at the HANSARD of the Tenth Parliament, I am on record having raised issues several times concerning matters that were being passed in hurry. This is not the first time we are being given a report about a very important Constitutional office and we are being told to pass it in a hurry.

If we approve the appointment of Justice Kalpana Rawal today, it will be based on her face; on how beautiful or ugly she looks. But it will not be based on what we know about her.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, whereas I do not want to dispute your ruling, I would want to urge that this House lets the name pass without debate so that we do not go on record as approving a person that we have not vetted. So, let the law take effect so that later, if an issue will be raised, at least this House will be absolved of never having had opportunity to vet Justice Rawal. I am not saying there is anything wrong with her because I have absolutely no idea and I do think it is in order for us to be ambushed. That is because the reason we are given upon notice is, for instance, I am a lawyer and I would verify by practicing lawyers, if indeed, the information we have on Justice Rawal is actually true. But, if there is any further information; but just giving us five minutes to flip through a report, nothing magical will jump out of that report that we do not already know. So, my very humble view is let it be by operation of the law, but not that we have vetted her.

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to join my colleagues on this matter and I want to go on record that my Office discussed this issue with the Clerk yesterday in his office, this morning and even now at the Chamber that these reports must be made available and we agreed with the Chair’s ruling. These reports must be available to hon. Members. Hon. Deputy Speaker, as you make your ruling, it must touch on the staff of Parliament. That is the gist of the matter that should go on the HANSARD that whoever is in charge of printing these reports and giving it to hon. Members, from wherever he sits in this Parliament must know that, this cannot go on! I totally agree and I want it to be noted that I raised this matter with the office of Clerk this morning. I raised it with the Clerk who was sitting here about one hour ago. We cannot go on like this. So, as you give the directive, let this be the last directive and let somebody take responsibility for not providing reports to hon. Members. I do agree with my colleagues.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I also stand to support what my colleagues have just said. The best thing that we can do for this country is to give this country the best. I would like to propose--- It has become a trend that we get the report on the eve of the deadline. This is not how this House is supposed to work. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we are supposed to approve two reports. I would like to suggest that we extend the House up to mid-night, so that we have the opportunity of reading those two reports. That is because there are certain observations even in the public domain, affecting some of those candidates. Therefore, we really do not want to be rushed through a situation like this and then get blamed in the future. So, hon. Deputy Speaker, we can either go for an adjournment or extend the time so that we can read the reports. We cannot accept the Government submitting reports when Committees are meeting on the eve of the deadline. Please, Chair, save this country from those problems. Thank you.

Hon. Members, I think I have made a ruling on that. We have got a very able--- You know that we, as a House, has representatives that we chose to do the work on our behalf. They have given us a report--- Yes, I understand your sentiments. All your sentiments are true. I hope the Clerk’s office is taking this matter as it has been mentioned by the Leader of Majority Party that the question of getting reports. I know the numbers have increased almost two-fold. I do not want to give an excuse to the Clerk’s Office. At least, we were aware from the beginning. If we need to employ more staff to ensure that we have enough copies that needs to be done. I am just pleading with the House to allow us to continue. We have noted all your concerns, I believe and I know they will be addressed as soon as possible. So, can we allow hon. Chepkonga; the Chairman of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee to continue with moving the Motion.

On a point of order hon. Deputy Speaker.

What is your point of order? Hon. Ken? We do not want to belabor the point hon. Members really---

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On a point of order hon. Deputy Speaker. I really think we should give hon. Members to do this. We cannot get copies of the report. If you asked by show of hands how many Members you expect in this House to ratify this matter and they do not even have the report up this point, it is really not fair to the House and the history and the precedent that we are setting. I do not see any harm that will come if we were to allow even one hour or two hours to bring up this matter so that hon. Members would have had a chance to look at it. I hear there is a deadline for mid-night. Let us do it. There is no hurry in where we are going. There is no favour by insisting. This has to be discussed at exactly this right moment now.

Order hon. Members! I can see the plea from the hon. Member. You know difficult times call for difficult measures. This is a big concern to hon. Members. I want to descend from my earlier decision and agree that we adjourn just for one hour for hon. Members to go and read through this Report and remember, we are probably holding giving a procedural Motion that we will not leave this place until all the business in the Order Paper is complete. So, we came back at 6.00 O’clock. We are temporarily adjourning the House for you and I hope that is what you are going to do. You are going to acquaint yourself and read the two reports so that when we come here, we can have meaningful discussions. Please, any hon. Member who does not have the Report should not leave this Chamber until he or she has a copy. The rest of you who have it need to read the Report here or wherever. Please, we are suspending the House for one hour for hon. Members to acquaint themselves with the Report. Thank you.

We want to continue and I will invite the Chair of the Committee. Do we have a quorum? I am told there is a quorum. Leader of Majority Party, do you have some comment to make?

Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following a Procedural Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 30(3) (a), this House resolves to extend its sitting today, 28th May, 2013, until conclusion of business appearing under Order Nos.9 and 10 and the disposal of the Motion for Adjournment of the House contained in the Order Paper. This is because of the issues that we have raised that, these matters 9 and 10 are of such great national important that we ought to make sure the Supreme Court has the members required; the office of the Deputy Chief Justice is a very important office; secondly, the Secretary to the Cabinet is a fundamental office for the first sitting of the Cabinet and the constitutional deadlines.

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I now ask the Minority Whip to second.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I second that we extend the sitting of the House until we exhaust the business on the Order Paper.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the Vetting of the nominee for appointment to the position of the Deputy Chief Justice of the Judiciary and approves the nomination of hon. Lady Justice Kalpana H. Rawal for Appointment to the position of Deputy Chief Justice of the Republic of Kenya.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank you for granting hon. Members time to go through our report. As the Chair is aware, this Committee was fully constituted on Tuesday last week in the evening and we had the task of making arrangements to ensure that we vet the hon. Justice Kalpana Rawal on Friday, as it was already scheduled. That did happen and we worked under very tight schedule. I must sympathize with the hon. Members who worked long hours, sometimes up to 1.00 a.m. this report was ready today, was submitted to the office of the Clerk and we expected that it would have been made available to hon. Members by the time I would be moving this Motion. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Article 161(a) of the Constitution, as read together with Section 24 of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution, His Excellency the President, through the Cabinet Secretary and Head of Public Service, forwarded to the Clerk of the National Assembly the name of the Hon. Justice Kalpana Rawal vide their letter dated 28th February, 2013, for vetting by the Departmental Committee for Justice and Legal Affairs, and approval by the National Assembly for appointment as the Deputy Justice of the Republic of Kenya. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, on Wednesday the 15th May 2013, the hon. Speaker, through Communication from the Chair, informed the House that the Clerk of the National Assembly, vide a letter dated 28th February, 2013 by the Head of Public

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Hon. Members, you should be informed that there is a technical problem between Seat Nos.89 to 131. So anybody who will be given an opportunity to contribute will go to the Dispatch Box.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you; I hope that is not sabotage of the Minority. As I rise to second this Motion; I also wish to thank Members of the Committee for the work done. As I second, I wish to bring to the attention of the House a number of issues. One, we were perturbed by the fact that we were being brought a nominee who was just two years shy of retirement age. Someone who is a judge under Section 167 of the Constitution must retire at 70 years; this also applies to the CJ and the DCJ. So the Committee was worried that this could have been a ploy for someone to bring their own person as part of a strategy in the Judiciary. As you know, the CJ will retire almost at the same time as the time when we expect this lady to retire. The CJ was born in 1947 and the DCJ was born in 1946. So these people will retire almost at the same time, and the Committee was worried. Is there a plan maybe to have these two people going at the same time, so that people can have their own preferred candidates? That is a matter that perturbed the Committee as we went through this exercise. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the major issues that really concerned us was the three key issues that the Chair has highlighted. This hon lady has had the good fortune of presiding over three very controversial cases. Hon. Gor Sungu read a statement within the precincts of Parliament, but this lady went ahead and awarded damages of about Kshs3 million. If this trend continues, hon. Members will not have the right to talk about issues that are dear to them due to fear that certain people may file court cases against them. So, these are issues which the House must consider even as we go ahead.

Order, hon. Ochieng! We left the Chair at the Committee level. In this House, we have the Speaker.

Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of the inquiry into the helicopter crash that led to the deaths of Prof. Saitoti and hon. Ojode has not been settled. The death of Dr. Robert Ouko still remains unresolved. So, our question was: How come that every matter that this lady handles remains unresolved? Is there an issue that this House may need to look into, even as we approve the nomination of this lady? It is very important that these matters are brought here, so that this House can consider them as we consider this Committee Report, so that this lady can be approved. With those remarks, I beg to second.

Yes, hon. Mutahi.

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Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support the Motion.

From the Report that we have, it is clear that this is a lady who has had a remarkable career in law. She was the first lady to start her own law firm in Kenya, and that is quite remarkable. She has also served in the Judiciary for a long time, and remarkably so. Despite, maybe, the a few errors that might have been pointed out, overall she is somebody who will bring a lot of experience to the practice of law and justice in Kenya. She has also managed to venture into areas where many people have been hesitant to go. She talks of judicial activism – something close to jurisprudence – which, for a long time, the Kenyan Bench has been accused of shying away from venturing into. The Kenyan Bench has been criticised for sticking too much to the latter of the law, instead of to jurisprudence. So, in my view, she is a kind of person who qualifies for this post.

When it comes to the issue of salary, I am glad that she is willing to continue with the same salary. We also realise that the Judiciary, unlike Parliament, was able to continue with the structure that was there before. That aspect was recognised and respected because there is the Judicial Service Commission. Similarly, Parliament should have had its own terms and conditions decided by the Parliamentary Service Commission. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, looking at the debate that was here before, I am also happy to digress a little and say that this House has reinstated its dignity. It has stamped its authority on matters of legislation. It is the business of this House to make laws. It is the business of this House to repeal laws or amend them. It is not the work of Commissions. I think this House has also brought to an end a new form of tyranny or dictatorship I would aptly describe as “commissionocracy” – a form of dictatorship by Commissions.

What is “commissionocracy?”

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, those who have been following developments in government will have realised that there is that new form of government, which is a bit illegitimate.

With those remarks, I beg to support.

Hon. Members, of course, the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party have priority. I can see that the Leader of the Minority Party wishes to speak. However, I would encourage him to listen and speak at the very tail end, so that he can respond to hon. Members’ issues. I do not know what you have to say. If that is okay with you, I will give the Floor to hon. Neto.

Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to oppose the Motion, the first reason being that the person who seconded the Motion highlighted Article 167(1) of the Constitution, which provides that a Judge of the Supreme Court ought to retire at the age 70 years old. We are talking about succession in the Supreme Court given the fact that the Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice will be retiring at the same time. In terms of succession for an institution, that may not be in the best interests of this country. Of course, the procedure of getting Deputy Chief Justice

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Order, hon. Oyugi! I can see that there is a point of order by hon. Francis Njenga.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought hon. Oyugi is a Member of the Committee. I thought he also attended the vetting sessions, but he appears to be opposing the Report that has been tabled by the same Committee he sits on. Is he in order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that I am a Member of the Justice and Legal Affairs Committee but it is not true that I attended the said vetting session. If I, indeed, attended the said vetting session, I would have recorded my disagreement and opposed the approval.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you protect me, I will proceed because I think I have vindicated myself.

Order, hon. Members!

Thank you very much, hon.. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I was saying, if I was present in that vetting session, I would have opposed the approval of this Lady Justice. I passed my apologies to the Committee Chairman.

Just a minute, hon. Oyugi. I think you need to clarify. You know that there are avenues for voicing concerns at the Committee stage. I have looked at the Report and I saw that you are, indeed, a Member. Ordinarily, we would not encourage a Member of a committee to contribute against because he had an opportunity to oppose at the committee session, unless, of course, you have a very strong opinion. So, proceed but other hon. Members should be take note.

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for protecting me. This particular committee meeting was for very personal reasons, and it has nothing that is within my control, and that is the reason why---. If I attended a particular committee meeting, I would have still dissented the approval of the Lady Justice Rawal. My first reason for that, as I have stated, this is a constitutional issue that relates to succession at the Supreme Court, which I think I have sufficiently explained. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second one, which I said was fundamentally more sentimental to my heart, is the reason why I came to the Tenth Parliament; it was was as a result of my predecessor dying in the very unfortunate circumstances of a plane crash. The same lady Justice Rawal sat on that particular commission. She was the head of the particular commission that was supposed to have unearthed the reason why my predecessor died, and given the country the reason why. As I speak today, the people of Ndhiwa are still waiting to understand the circumstances under which hon. Orwa Ojode died, and I think I would be---

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Order! I am finding it very difficult, hon. Oyugi, to find any good reason for the arguments you are pursuing; really being a member of that committee, if you had an issue you should have attended the committee meeting and given your views. Probably, I should be asking the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration of Justice and Legal Affairs to clarify whether there is any dissenting opinion, and if there is none, I think we will not proceed in that manner. Did we have any dissenting opinion?

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. You know hon. Oyugi is a very local person. You can easily bypass what he says but on a more serious note, he is supposed to have been there, and there is no member who has dissented to the report.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you very much. I think we really need to be disciplined as hon. Members, and members of the committee. I will give that opportunity to somebody else. I will give a point of order to hon. Ababu and not you.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for the point of order. I am a bit concerned about whether we are setting a precedent in debate here! First of all, there is nothing in the Standing Orders that precludes a member of a committee from contributing, or enjoying equal rights to contribute to a debate on a report originating from the committee where the member serves. There is no requirement in the Standing Orders that unless you dissented in committee you cannot oppose a report. There is nothing in the Standing Orders to that effect. So, I am just concerned that we may be setting a very dangerous precedent; it may require some guidance from the Chair as to whether it is, indeed, the rule that unless you dissent in committee you cannot oppose the report originating from the committee on which you sit. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, really this is a House of debate. It is a House of debate and we must not be seen, including the Chair itself, to constrict the right of hon. Members to debate for any reason, other than the reasons that are specifically indicated in the Standing Orders. Whereas I agree with you entirely that there is need for discipline, at the same time the Chair must not be seen to gag hon. Members on a basis that is not provided for in the Standing Orders either expressly or impliedly.

Order, hon. Ababu! Really it is good you put it very clearly that it is not provided for in the Standing Orders. We, therefore, give the opportunity to the Speaker to use Standing Order No.1, but the basic concern here, hon. Members, is that we cannot at all really encourage indiscipline. There are avenues that should be followed by members of the committee; indeed, I said, if you heard me correctly, that I would discourage. I did not say I will not give opportunity to members of the committee, and that is why I actually gave an opportunity to hon. Oyugi, knowing very well that he is a member of the committee. What I was just trying to do was to make sure that the hon. Members who are not members of that committee have an opportunity to contribute. If the Chairman of the committee has given the committee’s report, that would really represent, as much as possible, the committee’s report. let us proceed.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

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I will give the opportunity to hon. Angwenyi.

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance. First, I rise to support the recommendations of the Committee for Justice Rawal to be appointed Deputy Chief Justice. Upfront, I take exception---

Hon. Angwenyi, I did not give you an opportunity to contribute. You had a point of order. If it has been overtaken by events then we can proceed.

Can I proceed?

No.

All right. Then let me raise a point of order. Is the hon. Member, or the hon. Members who have contributed, in order to discriminate against persons who apply for jobs in this country on the basis of age? Two, is he in order to say that we are now appointing people who will be the Chief Justice when this position becomes vacant? It will be advertised and the process of selecting will be carried out.

Order, hon. Angwenyi! I think we cannot have two points of order in one. You have made your point but I do not think there is any discrimination; that is why the committee is suggesting that this report be approved. I will give the opportunity for contribution to hon. Manje.

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion, and say also that I am a Member of Parliament for Kajiado North. I attended some of these public inquiry meetings where hon. Lady Justice Kalpana Rawal was the presiding officer. I saw her as a very articulate judge, and we people of Kajiado North have no doubt that she conducted the inquiry in a professional manner. Also after that, I happened to sit down with members of the family of the late George Saitoti. I am the Member of Parliament for the constituency he represented for many years. I talked to them and they had no problem with the report from the inquiry and the way this lady conducted the inquiry. Therefore, I fully support this lady; I think I will vouch for her for that particular position. Thank you very much.

I will give the next chance to hon. Mwaura.

Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the nomination of Lady Justice Rawal, but I am also concerned that this House is really becoming a rubber stamp of the Executive. What leeway do we have really when we have only one option? Even if it is contemplated the Constitution--- There is nothing much we can do even when we do not agree with some of the actions of the nominee; you can only ignore them. How would a judge of the High Court not know---

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am not sure whether or not you heard the hon. Member say that this House has become a rubberstamp of the Executive, yet we have a report prepared by a Committee of this House! More fundamentally this name emanated from the Judicial Service Commission.

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Let us treat it as his opinion.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is my opinion and I am entitled to it. A whole judge of the High Court cannot know the retirement age as stipulated by the Constitution. Further, this Committee has noted that this judge is actually very shallow when it comes to human rights issues, yet human rights are in Chapter Four of the Constitution of Kenya. She is expected to defend the human rights of Kenyans.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Hon. Mwaura is a good friend of mine, but if the HANSARD will bear me out, he said that he supports the Report. The statements he has been making show that he is very vehemently opposing. A while ago he said that he is entitled to his opinion. I think in this House there are rules and procedures. We have the Standing Orders and the law which we need to follow. It is only outside this House where we are entitled--- I mean he is either supporting or opposing. He is entitled to either of the two. Is he in order to support from the outset and then oppose?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, this lady is going to be the Deputy President of the Supreme Court of the Republic of Kenya. Therefore, it is expected that she is conversant with the supreme law of the land. I also note from her statements---

Oppose! Oppose!

I will not oppose because of the tyranny of numbers.

I also note from the interview conducted by the Committee that the hon. Judge commented that she does not encourage judicial activism, but judicious activism. Then she goes ahead to say that in terms of calamity one must make a ruling that would avert crises in the society. If you look at the curriculum vitae of the hon. Lady Justice you will realize that she has been appointed to various committees and commissions on behalf of the State. Therefore, I am wondering whether she is there to preserve the status quo. While I support this Report grudgingly I would ask that in future appointments of this kind be considered differently. Kenyans are still grappling with confidence in the judiciary. I support, but grudgingly.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. It has been stated that the age of the nominee is 67 years. The Constitution that we passed in 2010 is clear that we cannot discriminate as far as age is concerned, not unless the nominee is, say, 70 years, which then bars her from being appointed to such a position. The nominee whose name is before the House today has risen through the ranks of the judiciary since her appointment. She is a member of the Court of Appeal which is the second highest ranking court in as far as the judiciary is concerned. This lady has served as a Commissioner of Assize. For those who do not know they should be informed that a Commissioner of Assize is a pro bono activity; a judge is appointed to serve for a

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On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Is my friend, hon. Kajuju, in order to gag this House by saying that we should not be discussing the age of the nominee?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I said to my learned--- My friend, actually. I always teach him the law when we have a moment. I am surprised that he has not learned the law that I have been teaching him up to now. Chapter Four on the Bill of Rights states that you cannot discriminate on the basis of age, gender, or race. We could not have said that even if she met all the other requirements of the vetting this lady should not be appointed as the Deputy Chief Justice because she is three years and not two years--- She was born in 1947 and she is supposed to retire at 70 years. She was born in 1946. Therefore, she has three years that she is supposed to serve the Judiciary, which are long enough to ensure that she leaves the Judiciary a better place than she will find it.

I support the Motion.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. Having gone through the report of the Committee, I believe this is the right person to serve in that office. This lady comes from the Asian Community, which is a minority community and this is a great opportunity to address the issue of the minority. So, I support her nomination. I do not think her retirement age is a big problem. She will retire

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I basically have no issue with the honesty of this lady. I have no issue with her morality and her temperament. But I want to oppose this report as a matter of principle. The Judiciary that we currently have in place in Kenya is supposed to be a reformist Judiciary, bearing in mind where we are coming from, as a country. I am afraid that if you look at the track record of this lady, there is nothing that qualifies her as a reformist of whatever shade. In fact, I was amazed, - whoever had time to listen to part of her interview was amazed - when she was struggling to define human rights. At one point, she said that human rights is difficult to define, if I am not wrong. If defining human rights is difficult, then nothing can be easily defined. Appointing this lady as the Deputy Chief Justice is basically an attempt to have the reactionary forces take over the Judiciary. The problem we have had in this country is the clique of conservative judges and magistrates, who have been a stumbling block to reforms and democracy. This lady is certainly part of that group, I can tell you. I also wonder what really happened at the Judicial Service Commission stage in this appointment process. I remember very well that there were very eminent women lawyers who appeared before that Commission. One of them is a former Chair of the Law Society of Kenya, who has become a Secretary to the Cabinet in charge of Defence. One of them was a former Chair of FIDA and many other eminent women lawyers. I do not think that bringing this lady to the Judiciary is in line with the trend to reform the Judiciary.

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I respect the Member on the Floor, but this Committee is a creature of this House, and we expect it to have done a wonderful job. It has given us a report; in the interest of time, would I be in order to move that the Mover be called upon to reply?

Certainly, you are out of order! I can see there is quite a lot of interest in this matter. Of course, we are alive to the issue of time, but we will certainly give a chance to a few more Members. Proceed!

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the tone of the Members who have spoken before, more so the Members of the Committee that has recommended this lady for appointment, you will see a situation where they are trying to give their response immediately because they are raising very grave issues and at the same time recommending that we go ahead and do what we can do on the Floor of this House. The issues that have been raised in this report are too grave to be wished away. I do not think that we are in a hurry as a country. We are not in a hurry as a country to appoint the Deputy Chief Justice. This country has stayed without one judge for the last six months or so. We can afford to stay for another two or three months, as we do a

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Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. One of the points in the report is the humility and the experience Lady Justice Kalpana Rawal exhibits. We all stand to be reminded that in this world, sometimes roles can be exchanged. In 2008, I had a petition before the High Court and it was adjudicated by Justice Kalpana Rawal; it has just come to our attention that it is our time to judge her. Let us be reminded, as Kenyans, that today you can be sitting on this side and tomorrow you will be sitting on the other side. If you do not do due diligence and do not give your all, some of these things may catch up with you in life. Just as my colleague, hon. Oyugi, has said, the circumstances that led to the death of hon. George Saitoti and hon. Ojode, also led me to this august House. Therefore, as an hon. Member has said, the people of Kajiado North know very well how she conducted the inquiry hearings. The report was finally given to the President and we are satisfied. She has two years to try and put straight some of the issues that we are raising here. With those remarks, I support.

Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to address this matter. I stand to oppose this Motion. I am doing that basically because I find inconsistencies in what the Committee has reported and what it recommends.

This is the second time we are seeing this. When we were conducting a vetting exercise last time, we also had a lady on whom we had an argument; we read exactly how the Committee has presented the facts; they clearly lead to where they intended to go. When you reach the decision of the Committee, it is inconsistent with the facts. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, what we are seeing here--- Look at this and at the last page; there are four issues that you find the Committee is not satisfied with; the nominee holds an opinion inconsistent with Article 167 of the Constitution. A judge of the Supreme Court, Deputy Chief Justice, really must be consistent with the Constitution in most issues, or in a major issue like this one. So, once you read that, it strikes you; surely something is not right here. Then the next one is that the nominee does not demonstrate a clear view of human rights, and was not clear was not clear in her legal philosophy. At a certain point in every profession, whether technical or whatever profession, your philosophy in life in guiding the profession, particularly if you are at a high level, is of utmost important. It is even more important than the letter of the law. I think some hon. Member, a lawyer, and I am not a lawyer, said that is what they call jurisprudence. If you have somebody who is not clear on their legal philosophy I think that is a major weakness; that came from the Committee itself. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, then the Committee says that there is an issue of succession. I think here I wish to differ with some of our colleagues. It is not a matter of discrimination because of somebody’s age. What we are doing in this House is actually planning for the future of this country; looking at every factor that may bring us problems or good governance. If you have a succession problem, that is something that you have to address at this point. I think the issue here is not that somebody is old and so

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Are you sure?

I am saying it is likely. I think that is the issue that we are having.

Hon. Cheboi): Order, hon. Members! Order!

We are going to the next. You must allow people to express their opinion. The next point is that the Committee observed that whereas the nominee demonstrated understanding of administration and management---

On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Cheboi): Order! There is a point of order from the hon. Wambugu.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to suggest that hon. Justice Kalpana Rawal should be the one propagating the succession plan, or that this is a programme that should with the Judicial Service Commission (JSC)?

Exactly! Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is something that has come from the JSC; but if you want to argue that anything that come from the JSC and is presented here, we cannot say anything, then there is no need for anything to come from the JSC and be presented in this House. So, whatever it is they have, I think this house still has a right to comment it. We have a right to look at the succession plan. So, the next point is that the Committee observed that whereas the nominee demonstrated the understanding of administration and management, she could not reconcile the same with--- How can one manage an institution well if they cannot reconcile the understanding of management with its strategic plan. Managing an institution means you are steering it in a given direction according to its strategic plan that you have worked on. If at that level you are not even clear what that strategic plan is, then honestly we cannot say that you know management. Again, you find that on the issue of cases that she has handled, you find in a way the Committee itself is wondering whether she is a gate keeper for the State. Although it is put as a question even from the Chair of the Committee itself, what it means is the Committee is worried; we are probably dealing with somebody who is likely to be a gate keeper. Then you turn round and say: “We asked her this question and she said “no”.” Obviously, if you asked me if I am a gate keeper, you do not expect me to say, “Yes, I am a gate keeper and I am always there.” The answer is “no”! I am just reacting to what I have picked from here. Then the again, the coincidence in the case is quite great. Another statement here is also very interesting. Somebody who describes themselves in an institution as an insider. “An insider” are not always a very positive word; it is actually somebody who tends to protect the status quo! I think that is what we are saying. We were also told that there was a case where there was an issue or a clear error of judgment. We were told that this was again explained. I think we may have party

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Hon. Members, there is a point of concern, which I really want to put to hon. Members. Most of the time, a person would really be seeking to raise a point of order, and it takes a very long time before they exit the system. It is clear, therefore, that that is an hon. Member who has really forgotten the card there. I want hon. Members to be extra keen, so that the Chair is able to handle it correctly.

Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this important debate. I rise to support the report of this Committee on the following basis. First, Chapter 4 of the Constitution talks about equality and freedom from discrimination. Secondly, it talks about fair hearing. What we are subjecting the hon. Justice Kalpana Rawal with regard to her past experience is embarrassment. First, the lady justice has a proven record; she has been tested. She has chaired several commissions and it is not here responsibility to appoint herself. The individuals who appointed her looked at her record, experience and how she can perform. The issue of not mastering the strategic plan of the JSC is not her individual problem. A strategic plan is adopted by a team; it is not an individual thing; it is work of a team. You are not supposed to draw a strategic plan and implement it for yourself. You draw a strategic plan based on the reforms that are required in an institution. To achieve what you want you have to carry out the reforms as a team not as an individual. Let us not pin her down on the issue of the strategic plan. Another thing that the hon. Members talked about is gate keeping. We are not going to approve this report for her to be nominated to gate keep on behalf of the Government. Lawyers in this House will tell us that when there is a critical case, like the dispute over last general election, it is not presided over by an individual; it is a presided over by a bench. S, why can we not give her a fair hearing in this House. I support the Motion. Thank you.

I really believe at this point the Leader of Majority Party has had his turn in listening to what the hon. Members are contributing to.

Put the Question!

There are still some hon. Members who are interested in the Motion, and so I will give them a chance.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a history to this process; Article 161(2)(b) of the Constitution clearly states how this Office should be filled. Then Article 163(1)(b) again provides the role of the Deputy Chief Justice (DCJ to

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Hon. Mwaura, hold your peace!

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want Hon. Mwaura to use his electronic microphone. I want him to learn how to use the swipe card provided to him by Parliament.

Let us hear what he has to say.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the Leader of the Majority Party, who is my friend, to suggest to this House that one can be judged by pedigree? That is, if your father was a High Court Judge and your grandfather was a Minister--- This is a country of equal opportunity! Is it in order for him to suggest that?

Yes!

Order, Hon. Mwaura. I do not think there was any suggestion to that effect.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know I have the right of developing my argument. The CJ, a man I respect so much, Justice Mutunga, when he was forwarding this name to the authorities to pass to Parliament, described Lady Justice Rawal as experienced, well guided and a grounded judge. Lady Justice Rawal has been described as mature, patient, humble; we know the circumstance of which this Office, which is vacant; We know the story by Ms. Kerubo. This House has the privilege of having in its midst the lawyer who represented Ms. Kerubo, the Member for Kiharu, a man I also respect a lot. If Justice Rawal gets this job, she must not walk the road others have walked because as taxpayers and Members of Parliament who approve the Budget, we must give the job to somebody who will fit into the stature of that Office. That is why Members of Parliament have a way of live. The CJ and DCJ must live within the confines of their Offices. I do not think Justice Rawal will score a C- in that kind of life. Why did I make the reference to her father and the grandfather? We do not come to Parliament and my good friend, Hon. Ababu, taught me in the last Parliament how to build your argument and I was doing so.

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I think in the interests of time and the two other Motions that we to debate--- I can see that Members of the Committee are very eager to contribute, but it is prudent that we finalize this matter. We have had arguments both ways; so, I call upon the Mover to reply.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity again to respond. I must thank the Leader of the Majority Party. It appears that he has become better than the teacher, and we must congratulate him for that. Just to dispel the concerns of the hon. Members that have been expressed this evening, the way this report has been written was to give pros and cons. The majority of hon. Members, as you are aware, in this Committee are lawyers. So, the manner in which you write a report is like the way you write a judgment, where you must tell the whole House what were the issues that were raised with the nominee; we provided information in the report. On a balance of probability, looking at the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act, we found that this nominee is suitable for the position for which she has been recommended. So, without spending too much time, I beg to move and request that this nominee be approved.

The Chairman, Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security.

Hon. Chairman, Departmental Committee on Administration and of National Security, move the Motion first as it is in the Order Paper.

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am happy to second this Motion and point out a few things. We were vetting a career civil servant – somebody who joined the public service at the age of 24 years and has served for 33 years. He has gone through the ranks, taking a minimum of three years in every position until he reached the top. We do not have many in public service who have had that kind of service throughout.

The position we were vetting is Secretary to the Cabinet. Right now Mr. Kimemia is holding the position of Head of Public Service. The post of Head of Public Service is at

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. From the outset, you realize that we are talking about an officer who has risen through the ranks of the Public Service. If you look at the Cabinet that we approved a few days ago, you will see that we need institutional history of our Government, people who have the right experience and what it takes to make sure that the new Cabinet settles down properly and discharges its duties without having difficulties, as most of them have come from the private sector. For any meaningful reforms in the Public Service, again we need institutional history. I think this is the right candidate who has that. As it has rightfully been put by hon. Anyango, we cannot prosecute or crucify our officers, particularly in the public service for the positions they hold, which are not their personal responsibilities, but are institutional positions. Hon. Deputy Speaker, again, we have seen the diligence, the competence, the integrity and the level at which Mr. Kimemia has been able to discharge his duties; as the Chair will realize, in the last five years, circumstances were very difficult and anybody will appreciate that. In a coalition Government the opposition and the Government are in one Cabinet; having them work in harmony and be able to achieve synergy cannot be taken for granted. So, that is something that we ought to commend this officer for. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I think the candidate has all the qualifications and is the right candidate for this job. I support. Thank you.

Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I stand to support this Motion, based on chapter six of the Constitution in terms of leadership and integrity. The report that we have been given by this Committee actually gives us the information on how Mr. Kimemia has worked. The service he has given in all those years in as a civil servant--- Therefore, I think it is important that we have his expertise on board, given that the Cabinet that we have is relatively new in the Civil Service; so, he will give the guidance and the able leadership that we need in this country. Therefore, I stand to support that we give this position to Mr. Kimemia. Thank you.

Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support. Going by what the hon. Members have already said about Mr. Francis Kimemia, I think we will provide a service, as a House, to recommend him for this position. Having known Mr. Kimemia personally, he is an experienced individual and somebody who took over the very difficult duty when Amb. Muthaura had to step aside because of the issues that were faced him. Mr. Kimemia went out of his way to make sure

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Ashante sana Naibu Spika. Hata mimi ninaunga mkono Hoja hii kuhusu Bw. Kimemia. Kwa kweli mimi sijui ni watu gani katika Kenya tunataka! Ukiangalia ile kazi Bw. Kimemia amefanya katika nchi hii, nafikiri ni mtu ambaye anastahili kupatiwa kazi hii. Badala ya kuongea mengi, tungepitisha Hoja kwa sababu naona kila mtu hapa ni rafiki ya Bw. Kimemia. Yafaa tuseme kwamba tunajua kazi yake. Kwa kweli ni mtu mwenye roho safi; hata ukiwa na shida, kama sisi ambao tuna shida ya usalama, na umpigie simu saa tisa usiku atachakua. Ukimweleza shida zako, atafanya kile wakenya wanataka. Kwa hivyo, ninaonelea kwamba, badala kukaa hadi saa nne au saa tano tukijadiri Hoja hii kuhusu Bw. Kimemia, kila mtu ni rafiki yake hapa na wengi wanampenda na kazi yake iko sawa. Naona mhe. Ababu anacheka pale; pia kuna rafiki yangu pale anaitwa Midiwo. Ningeomba tuweke sahihi na kumaliza jambo hili. Ninaunga mkono.

Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise personally to support this Motion. I am supporting a person I know very well. I have gone through the report and I have seen a career civil servant. A person who has risen from the position of DO II to where he is now, as the Head of Public Service. I fully agree with hon. Leshosmo that, instead of wasting time---

Please, allow me to contribute. Your time will come. I have gone through the Report and have seen a serious career civil servant. My brother Kimemia has developed quite a number of policies for this country. Some of those policies are being used in the civil service currently. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support. Thank you.

Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I stand to support and ask all the hon. Members to support because Mr. Kimemia was able to prove to us how he amicably used the Harvard principle to sort out the issue which has been on air everyday between county Commissioners and Governors. It is in our report that he was able to give us the way the delicate issue could have been managed. He showed the Committee that in future dispute resolution can also be sorted out using such a principle. He told us how a county commissioner can speak during the Madaraka Day and allow the Governor to speak last. It is good to give the

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Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. I agree on the grounds in which he has been praised but I am concerned about the nature of the praise because it may set a precedent that may hamper us as we go forward. For example, heads of institutions stand accountable for what goes on in their institutions even if they are not personally undertaking it. If we remove that principle, we will have a problem in future when heads of Ministries sit over rotten Ministries. So I am very concerned about that dismissive basis. The second basis is that I am really appalled at the work of the Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC), nothing specific to this particular candidate but the general trend has now been that they either do not respond or they are completely wishy- washy. I think the worst thing to do to set precedent in this House is to be dismissive of what is coming out of the EACC entity because we will need them. If they are unable to perform, the House should come out clearly to sharpen them because it will be in our interest as we push this forward in the language the President himself used in this House. He is looking for double digit growth and elimination of corruption. If institutions are unable to do due diligence, we should say so. I support this Motion because clearly he has been a strong civil servant but I am very concerned with those two aspects that we are setting a precedent that will come back to haunt us.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. Let me first of all start by saying that I was very proud or I have been very proud to serve in this Committee and to commend it for the amazing spirit of bipartisanship that informed the whole vetting process. I say this, of course, very aware that I am a proud Member of the CORD Coalition and I proudly sit on this side of the House and I understand that we have a cardinal responsibility to play the role of watchdog. I also know that as an Opposition, our role is to be a watchdog and not a bloodhound. That means that we have to watch over the public good and not to witch-hunt those who have been given the mandate to govern the affairs of this country. There is very worrying trend in this country; one that reminds you the saying that all that you need to kill a dog is to give it a bad name. So give a dog a bad name and kill it. So we have witnessed scenario where people are demonized and reputations are dragged through the mad. We have had examples that have even come to this Parliament. Examples like the case of a very young brilliant attorney, Cecil Miller whose nomination to chair the then Interim Independent Electoral Commission was a sad story of how one can be given a bad name and hanged. This Floor has witnessed drama. The so-called maize scandal was an interesting drama on the Floor of this House; drama based merely on information casually thrown around. And it worries you when you look at Kenyans demanding for justice and you can see that the ordinary Kenyan wants justice but at the

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Yes, hon. Ngunjiri.

Bi. Naibu wa Spika, ninakushukuru sana kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Ninaiunga mkono Hoja hii kwa sababu ni ya muhimu sana. Nimesikia kuna mtu ambaye aliandikia Bunge barua kuhusu suala la IDPs. Kuhusu suala hili, ningependa kusema kwamba nimeshughulika sana na masuala ya IDPs. Ninathibitisha kwamba kama kuna mtu ambaye aliwasadia sana IDPs, kwa kuwapa makao; ni Bw. Kimemia. Mimi na mkazi wa Nakuru,na ninajua shida tulizokuwa nazo kuhusu IDPs lakini Bw. Kimemia alisaidia sana kwa kusikiliza maoni na hata kwenda kuangalia maslahi ya IDPS walipokuwa wakipewa makao. Kwa hivyo, ninaomba, kwa sababu tumelizungumzia jambo hili kwa kirefu: Sisi sote tuko pamoja. Kwa hivyo, tuchukue fursa hii tuseme tumekubaliana na Kamati ambayo imeleta pendekezo hili Bungeni. Kamati hii imefanya kazi nzuri sana. Kama alivyosema mheshimiwa fulani, tunamuheshimu sana Bw. Kimemia kwa jinsi alivyoweza kutuambia mambo yake yote kumhusu. Ninaiunga mkono Hoja hii. Kwa hivyo, tuipitishe kwa kauli moja ili tushughulikie jambo lingine. Tumeizungumzia Hoja hii kwa masaa mengi sana kwa sababu ya heshima. Kwa hivyo tuipitishe. Bi. Naibu wa Spika, kwa hayo machache, ninakuomba uulize Swali tuipitishe Hoja hii.

Yes, hon. Stephen Wachira.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I also rise to support this Motion. Hon. Deputy Speaker, Mr. Kimemia is a man who rose through the ranks, from a very junior DO in a remote part of this country to the senior-most position in the Public Service. He has been consistent in his work. In fact, he has served three regimes: Retired President Moi’s regime; retired President Kibaki’s regime, and is now serving in President Uhuru’s regime.

What is your point of order, hon. Member?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to inquire why the hon. Member on the Floor said that the North Eastern region is a remote area yet that is where this guy was hardened. He acquired his administrative skills in that area, and that is why we are approving his nomination.

Please, correct your statement, hon. Wachira.

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I am guided, hon. Deputy Speaker. I would also want to say that Mr. Kimemia has been acting in the position he has been nominated for appointment. So, this is a job he has already been doing. Ours today is just a matter of confirmation. On the letter from the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission, it looks like we have problems with commissions just like the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). First of all, I want to commend the Committee that did the vetting because in the middle of their work, some television stations flushed “Breaking News” and said that the person being interviewed was involved in mega corruption. If the Members of the Committee had not stood firm, they would have been swayed into giving an unfavourable Report on this gentleman. Of course, that was an act of malice by the television stations, just as it was malicious of some people who brought pigs to the entrance to Parliament Buildings. With those remarks, I beg to support the Motion.

Hon. Chepkonga, what is your point of order?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, considering that there is consensus in the House, and pursuant to Standing Order No.95, would I be in order to request you to call upon the Mover to reply?

Is that the feeling of hon. Members? My board is completely full.

Put the Question! Put the Question!

Hon. Members, I know that all of you would really like to say something good about Mr. Kimemia but, in the interest of time, let us end this debate at this point.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I intended to take four minutes but I will donate two minutes to hon. Mbadi and consume the rest of the time.

Hon. Kamama, I know that hon. Mbadi is your friend. Unfortunately, once the House has said “Ayes”, you cannot donate time anymore. That is quite unfortunate, hon. Mbadi.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand guided.

First of all, I want to take the opportunity to say “kudos” to all the hon. Members who supported the Report of this Committee. I want to thank you for the good things you have said about the nominee. I also thank you for the comments you made about the Committee. I wish to say that you will also confirm to us that, as a Committee, we did a meticulous and thorough job.

Lastly, there is something I want to say on security. Once the President appoints this nominee, as a Committee, we want to be assisted, together with the nominee for the post of Principal Secretary for Interior and National Coordination, to address issues of security in the North Eastern region and Bungoma, cattle rustling in the North Rift region; and deal with urban crime.

With those few remarks, I beg to move.

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Hon. Majority Leader and please note that this is an Adjournment Motion that is for less than nine days and, therefore, we will debate the total time including that of the Mover. It will be 30 minutes.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Chair. I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.28, this House adjourns until Tuesday, June 4th, 2013 in accordance with the calendar of the National Assembly (Regular Sessions).

I will only take two minutes. One, we are adjourning to fulfill our constitutional mandate under Standing Order No. 232, Constitution of Kenya, Articles 220 and 221 that give us the power to interrogate and to own the Budget. Two, pertaining to the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF), as Members of Parliament we need to make sure our CDF committees are gazetted this week and hon. Members and the committees can get the way forward.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, finally, there are other issues that we need to sort out and we need a break for this week so that by the time we come back on Tuesday 4th June, we embark on a second agenda which is making sure we take the country through the Budget making process through the month of June. Then, hon. Members will have done one or two things.

I beg to move and ask the Leader of the Minority Party to support.

Thank you very much, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to second and while doing so, I want to say this: As has been exhibited in the House, there is total support and for someone to serve for 33 years in the Civil Service and no finger is pointed at him or her, then that is a good thing. So, on the Adjournment Motion, I beg to second.

Thank you.

Hon. Jakoyo Midiwo.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion for Adjournment. We have been here for a couple of months now and I know the new hon. Members need to go back to their constituencies. I want to encourage you, arising from my earlier contribution that your secretariat needs to sort out hon. Members so that they can go back and work in the constituencies.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, but having said that, I find this a perfect opportunity for this country to know that the Government needs to tighten its belt when it comes to the

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I will correct you on that one, hon. Jakoyo. On this one for less than nine days, it would be strictly on the Motion for Adjournment. So, do not deviate too much.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand corrected but I would like to be directed in the relevant Standing Order so that I stand guided as an old hon. Member of this House. I would like to know that.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, however it is important that we tell the Government to have and exercise prudent use of public funds. Leader of the Majority Party, you purport to be part of the Government. Maybe you need to inform the Government that we are saying that we will not see the Government flying in planes using taxpayers money especially when it is---

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. It is the prerogative of this House that we will bring amendments to any Bill including the Police Service Reform Bill and I am not purporting. I am the Leader of the Government as the majority coalition which was formed. I ask my colleague that he waits until 2017 when he might purportedly be in Government and be the Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon., Deputy Speaker, can you imagine a nobody purporting to be head of the Government in the House? We are talking about the implementation of the Constitution. What a shame our country is being treated to.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Government is now properly constituted. We want to see the Government working the other way and we want to see Parliament performing its oversight role. I want to plead with our colleagues who think that they are in heaven. The Kenya African National Union (KANU) party was there. KANU is not in heaven anymore. KANU tried everything. KANU came down. You will come down. If you keep on flying up there in these jets, you will see what the people of Kenya have for you.

I support this Motion.

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Hon. Clement Wambugu.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion for Adjournment and also to take the opportunity to congratulate Mr. Kimemia for having being passed for the nomination of the seat of the Cabinet Secretary.

While I contribute to this Motion, I think it will be a good time for hon. Members to know that this break also is taking the Budget Committee to various provincial headquarters in their various constituents so that we can give our people a chance to contribute towards the Budget making process in this country. It is also good to let the people know that most of the amendments and proposals that we received last year when we had the visits to the various regional headquarters were actually put and also adjusted within the Budget. It would be good for our constituents or people in various counties to come out in big numbers so that they can contribute. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like the CDF Management Board to move with speed to gazette the CDF Committees that were selected a while ago, so that the CDF money can be released. Many students who rely solely on CDF bursaries have been sent home. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. With all due respect, I am kindly requesting the Leader of the Majority Party to give assurance to the House that within those nine days, the Committee on CDF will have been gazetted and that the funds will be released within the same period.

That is not a point of order. Hon. Nkaissery!

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand to support this Motion. It is important that, as Members of the National Assembly, we should go to visit our people and tell them about the Government policies. We need to tell them what we have passed so far. It is very important that we have this little break. It is also very important that Parliamentary Service Commission ensures that the welfare of Members of Parliament as passed this afternoon is implemented so as to enable them--- This is not a favour. This is a constitutional right and, therefore, we should not fear to perform according to the Constitution. This House passed very important recommendations from the Committees. One touched on the appointment of the Deputy Chief Justice and the other one was on the appointment of the Secretary to the Cabinet. Therefore, we have performed our duty in accordance with the Constitution. The Parliamentary Service Commission should, therefore, move with speed to ensure that our CDF entitlement--- In fact, if the Parliamentary Service Commission does not move fast, that money will be returned to the Treasury and yet, it is money meant for the development of constituencies. The Commission needs to ensure that CDF money is in our accounts by Thursday. The staff can work overnight if they are paid to do so. By tomorrow morning, we can congregate here by 8.00 a.m. so that we are briefed on the matter. Then we will be able to go to our constituencies knowing very well that our constitutional mandate has been fulfilled.

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to support this Adjournment Motion so that we have time to touch base with our constituents. I think it has been quite a long time and this is the opportune moment for us to go and touch base and also start the CDF projects. We have just passed the approval of two appointments. I would like to talk about the one of Mr. Kimemia. We are where we are as a country because after we passed the Constitution, we were very quick to go and pick everybody from the streets and some busy bodies and put them in very serious Government positions. We have learned a hard lesson from what we did. We need to apologise to those who have been patient in the Public Service and have served longer. Some of them like Mr. Kimemia have served for over 30 years. But we have, instead, gone to the streets and brought people who think they know everything and yet, they know nothing. What we have done today is the best. We need to recommend our public officers; that is, those who have been consistent and those who understand what needs to be done. All these commissions that we set up, I believe it was a big mistake. I think for us to go forward, we need to correct that mistake. We need to get the right people so that the job can be done. As we go for recess, I wish hon. Members all the best. Let them do the best they can within the three or four days and meet here on Tuesday to transact the remaining business. I beg to support.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, let me, first of all, take this opportunity to congratulate Mr. Kimemia for having been appointed by my Committee. He fits in the job. We interviewed and interrogated him. There are commissions in this country that are supposed to be written off. When we interviewed the Chief Executive of EACC, in my view, he does not fit in that job. I beg to support his Motion.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion and also observe that there are some Members of this House who are still not in, at least, two Committees as is required by the Speaker’s ruling. This issue needs to be expedited because we are also missing our opportunity to participate in the Committees. In congratulating Mr. Kimemia I would also like to say that he needs to finish his degree. It has taken him nine years to finish his Masters. There is a fault in the way he has declared his annual income. You do not add Kshs1.2 million to Kshs14 million to make Kshs28 million. We may need to have some more transparency. That accuracy is required for one to be Secretary to the Cabinet. I support.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I just wanted to bring to your attention the mood in the House. I support this Motion and say that we need to bring it to an end.

Yes, and I also want to guide you that this particular Motion does not have a Question. If you look at Standing Order No.28, there is no

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Hon. Deputy Speaker, I also rise to support the Motion. I also want to mention about the appointment of Mr. Kimemia. If you look at the referees that he has given in his CV, it will only show how serious he was by giving the referees of the likes of the former President Mwai Kibaki and Francis Muthaura. He also gave a name of a priest, which only shows that he is also a very religious person in his service. The only thing that we wanted the Leader of the Majority to clarify is about the salary. We do not know whether we are just going on recess.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. I also want to join the rest of the Members to congratulate Mr. Kimemia on his appointment. I know him as somebody who is very capable to handle that docket, especially in terms of security.

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Thank you for allowing me to inquire from the Chair if we may be having sufficient quorum to continue transacting the business of the House. My friend, hon. Midiwo, is agitated that---

You want to withdraw? Have you been guided? Continue hon. Wanyama!

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for protecting me. You have given me a chance to comment about the adjournment of this House and on Mr. Kimemia’s issue. I agree with the rest of the Members because he is capable. He has experience and he is going to perform in the docket which he has been given. I wish to also talk about security in my area. I come from Trans-Nzoia County where last Saturday, we lost one of the police reservists. I wish to request the Government to put the machinery on the ground to ensure that security is up to date. I support the Motion.

Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I want to start by thanking all Members for their participation, especially from the time we started up to now. This is as constructive House and we know that by the end of the five years, Kenyans will benefit from this House. I also want to join my colleagues in congratulating the two nominees that we have approved this evening, namely, Justice Rawal and Mr. Kimemia. Justice Rawal is going to play a very great and important role in bringing justice to those who deserve it. Sometimes, some Kenyans seem to be important than others. We still question how Justice Baraza was removed from the service. The way she was removed from service did not warrant that level. Those who come from minority communities in this country suffer even for a minute thing that could be solved amicably, but because nobody cares about them, it goes that way. This also affects my people in Kapenguria and after any small thing, they go for their necks instead of recognizing them as people. Another issue is that police services are divided into two. We do not get the right services. The Inspector-General cannot even work now. He cannot even transfer a constable from one place to another. He cannot transfer errant police officers. You can see what happened in Western, North Eastern and parts of my constituency. There is a time that he wanted to transfer an Administrative Police Constable, but those people ran to court for protection. This group of Mr. Kavuludi is becoming a stumbling block to

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Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute towards this Motion. I want to support the Motion for Adjournment. I also want to urge the public that we are adjourning because of the Budget public hearings, which is our constitutional mandate. So, I wish to ask the public to come out in large numbers as we go for public hearings. Otherwise, today, we have given jobs to two people, one a career Civil Servant and another, a career Judge. That is the way we should go because if the Commissioners that we appointed were up to the task, we would not be facing the problems that we are having with, for example, the Kavuludi, Serem and the Nyachae commissions. I urge that in future, when we are doing any appointments, we should make sure that we get the right people. Otherwise, I support the Motion on Adjournment. I wish to inform the public that we are going there for the Budget matters. We are not going for any recess because we were only supposed to be here tomorrow and the day after. We shall be out there conducting public hearings for the Budget. That is why we are adjourning.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. First, I want to support the Motion on Adjournment. Two, I want to state very clearly that, as we go home for the next one week, let us think seriously about how this country is going to work with so many commissions, staffed with so many people who have no work to do. If people are idle, they go into mischief. Three, we want to support our security forces and our security apparatus. Hon. Kavuludi should give Mr. Kimaiyo space to do his work. The Committee on Administration and Internal Security should straightaway develop a Motion to amend the Police Service Commission Act, so that we can give space to the person who should run the Police Force in this country.

On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that the Kavuludi Commission is not giving the Inspector General (IG) a chance, while the work of both of them is properly and clearly spelt out in the Commission? What somebody is trying to do and what is being insinuated from the Floor of this House is actually somebody who is trying to change the Constitution. We are not going to allow it. Is he in order?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I just took the queue from what we said about Sarah Serem’s Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). The SRC has got its mandate. But if they transgress the law and the Constitution and impede the work professionals, Parliament must come to their aid. I am saying this very clearly: Let

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Hon. Members, it is time to interrupt the business of the House. Therefore, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 4th June, 2013 at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 9.00 p.m.

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