Hon. Members, we do not have the required quorum. Therefore, I order the bell to be rung for 10 minutes.

Order, Members! Order! Take your seats because we now have the required quorum. So, business will begin.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, aware that the national Government is heavily dependent on foreign exchange for the sustainable growth of the economy; recognising that tea and coffee are major foreign exchange earning cash crops and greatly contribute to servicing of manufacturing and creation of employment; noting that the earnings from these crops are on the decline resulting in a record decrease in export earnings, with the tea farmers fetching the lowest payments in 10 years; concerned that such poor payments will adversely affect farmers leading to the abandonment or neglect of tea growing and the ensuing shortage of foreign exchange inflow, labour layoffs and redundancies, and the resultant decline in manufacturing due to lack of foreign exchange, this House resolves that to be able to insure and cushion farmers from any such adverse effects and to be able to secure, sustain and promote the continued growth of tea and coffee, the Ministry of Agriculture, through the Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority (AFFA) Act, do provide and prescribe for the Guaranteed Minimum Returns Scheme for The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

the farmers of tea, coffee and any other crop as may be scheduled under the said scheme. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

We will start with a Question by Private Notice by Hon. William Kamket, Member for Tiaty.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to ask the following Question by Private Notice to the Cabinet Secretary for Defence: (i) What is the criteria being employed in the upcoming recruitment exercise of the various cadres of officers into the Kenya Defence Forces? (ii) What informed changes in recruitment centres from sub-counties to the counties headquarters? (iii) What measures has the Ministry put in place to ensure fairness and transparency in the recruitment exercise and in particular, consideration for the marginalised regions? (iv) Could the Cabinet Secretary provide the number of officers expected to be recruited, per cadre, indicating the number of positions per constituency and positions reserved for each gender?

That Question will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations. I see many Members placing their intervention. What is it, Hon. Nakuleu?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to comment on the Question raised by my colleague.

How do you intend to comment on it? Let me hear you.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, the issues raised in the Question are very pertinent especially when the criterion for recruitment into the Kenya Defence Forces is very clear in the public domain, but all over a sudden, the Ministry decides to adopt a formula that is not well-known. The nature of the recruitment that is due to happen is bound to be skewed because it is against devolution where each and every place has a rightful share in employment. The moment the recruitment is done at the county level, it means they will be targeting some individuals and will deny other people from marginalised communities an opportunity to be recruited. Again, it would only be fair that when such a criterion for recruitment is adopted, the sub- counties in marginal areas are given an opportunity to recruit service officers in the event they do not meet the professional requirements at the time. Otherwise, as it is, it will leave most of the marginal areas without any person who might have qualified according to the criterion that is due to be adopted.

You are almost making a statement. The Question will come before a Committee and it is a Question by Private Notice. So, it will be fast. You have raised The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

your concern. What I am more concerned with is if you were saying that as the Cabinet Secretary comes to answer this Question, these are the areas we need the Question to cover and you have done it already. So, I do not want to give you more time than that. I am only surprised because I see many Members interested in having a say.

Let me have one minute to summarise what I intend to do.

Summarise.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, finally, it will be fair in future if a criterion is changed to be put to the public domain by communicating early for public participation to be conducted. As it is, it is an affront and it denies some people an opportunity to get that employment.

Hon. Ali Athman, Member for Lamu East.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, before I ask my Question, let me comment on this Question. The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations is here. The recruitment exercise will take place on 28th and 29th October, which is very near. So, I humbly request the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations to speed up the issue through the Cabinet Secretary, so that the ordinary mwananchi at the grassroots can get the chance. Not everyone can gather at the county centre. There are some people who cannot afford to travel to the county centres. Some counties have almost 12 constituencies and it will be very difficult for them to gather at the county centre that has been identified by the Ministry. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Let me now go to my Question.

No, you cannot. You are now controlling the House and that is not in your power. Hon. Pukose, I am giving a small leeway on this one. It is not normal. The Question is basically going to be answered. In fact, when I hear Members saying that the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations should speed up this Question, it is beyond his power to do so now. This is a matter that is before the House and it is a Question by Private Notice and the timelines are very clear.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity. We need direction from the Chair as far as addressing this matter is concerned. The recruitment has been centralised at the county level and we do not know the numbers. Recently, they recruited prisons officers and in some sub-counties, only four people were taken, namely, three ladies and one man. We do not know what happened in other areas. This is a question of transparency. Our Constitution demands public participation. Was public participation done before they decided to recruit at the county level? It is challenging because one of the issues will be the time the recruitment will commence. If any changes are made between now and then, it should be advertised in dailies, so that our people can learn of the changes immediately. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Kositany.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Hon. Kamket has raised a very pertinent issue. When recruitment used to be done at the sub-county level, it cushioned many of our constituents because they can cycle or walk to the sub-county headquarters. But now it will be done at the county headquarters. In Uasin Gishu, it will be held at the 64 Stadium and some of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

my constituents in Soy live about 70 to 80 kilometres away and the exercise starts very early in the morning. By the time they get there, they will be tired and hungry yet they have to go through a vigorous exercise to qualify. So, as my colleagues have put it, it is important that when those concerned make such changes, they should bear in mind that we represent people and we know economic times are hard. Therefore, we need to cushion members of the public even as they seek this recruitment. Let us cushion them from the cost of transport to the venue.

Let us hear Hon. Mbadi. Do you want to speak to this or the next one? I am giving this leeway because there is a decision I have to make. As Hon. Members, you are aware we are going on a short recess tomorrow. So, there are some issues we must clarify before we go on recess especially because this is a Question by Private Notice. Hon. Mbadi.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is a very urgent and important Question because it involves recruitment and employment of youth. There are two things I would like the Committee to consider when they meet the Cabinet Secretary. One, if the Cabinet Secretary insists that the recruitment is to be done as per the advertisement, namely, at the county headquarters, are they going to refund those who come from all over the place to the county headquarters their transport cost? These are youth who are looking for employment and you cannot ask them to come from several kilometres away in search of employment, then they go back home and just a few will be picked. They must guarantee that if they are insisting on the youth appearing for recruitment at the county headquarters, they will be refunded the transport cost. Two, there is the element of subjectivity. Once the youth have done the running, then they go through other subjective tests like medical tests, whose results are not made public, you cannot even vouch for them. How is the KDF going to ensure that there is objectivity and fairness to the youth, so that this culture of taking bribes can be eliminated? I am convinced that bribe taking during the recruitment of forces has not been eliminated.

Hon. Members, I can see too many interested Members.We can leave this one to the time the Cabinet Secretary comes to the Committee. Hon. Kamuren, what is it?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. My concern is that we are most likely to go on recess yet this exercise is ongoing. It will start within a very short time. Some of us have marginalised communities like the Ilchamus and Endorois in our constituencies. If they have to go to Kabarnet Town, the county headquarters, it will be costly since it is a distant place. We are worried about that. We need direction.

Hon. Members, let us leave it there. Ordinarily, this kind of Question should be responded to within three days. Starting from today, that will go to Monday. I want to hear from the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations if we can fast-track this one for the Cabinet Secretary to appear either tomorrow or Friday. I want to see the availability of the Chair because this is a serious Question. All Questions are serious, but this one cuts across everywhere. It is something that you can see. I can see about nine other Members who want to speak to it. In fact, as you think about it, Hon. Chair, allow me to give two other Members a chance from different areas. I have given a chance to some parts of Baringo. Let us have a Member from Isiolo, Hon. Hulufo. Be brief.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. As you give direction, one thing we need to appreciate is that in the north, we are experiencing torrential rains. If the recruitment continues the way it has been advertised, I can assure you many of our The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

sub-counties will be left out because the roads from the sub-counties to county headquarters are impassable. The Chair, through the Speaker, needs to reverse this. We have to go back to sub- counties to be fair. Many people cannot afford fares from wherever they live to county headquarters.

Hon. Lentoimaga.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. The only employment available now is the KDF. That is what many youth rely on given that the minimum grade that is allowed is a D Plain. They are concerned that taking recruitment to county headquarters will be a disadvantage to them especially in Samburu North. We have a serious problem with security and that might make it difficult for our youth to reach there. It will only be an advantage for the youth who are at the county headquarters. We need to reverse it as soon as possible.

Hon. Nyamai.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to add my voice to this matter of youth being told to move from the sub-counties to the county headquarters. It is costly and we are not sure of the process. It is not only for the KDF, but also for the Kenya Prisons which has just been concluded. There is a lot of bribery around. That is why we are getting the kind of officers we have; people who do not even deserve. As long as someone can produce Kshs300,000 for their children, they get jobs. There are people who have the passion to serve this country, but they are not able to get the opportunity because their parents or guardians cannot afford or are not ready to bribe. This is a matter that needs to be discussed openly in this House and a decision made and implemented. Thank you.

Chairperson, let us hear from you. Members, I do not think there are any extra issues that we could raise more than what we have said. If there are, go and raise them at the Committee level.

For the record, the just concluded recruitment of prison officers was done at the sub-county level, not county headquarters. You ask me to state my availability before the House goes for recess tomorrow. I can confirm that I am at the service of this House. I am available even this afternoon, but the problem is the availability of the Cabinet Secretary. That is, as you said, beyond me, but if you give direction that she appears before the Committee tomorrow morning, we can brief this House tomorrow afternoon on the decision that will have been taken. Thank you.

I have heard you, Chair. I am about to rule on when the Cabinet Secretary should appear before your Committee. I probably also want to see the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee (CIOC) in terms of the constitutionality of this issue. What is it Chair of the CIOC?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Let me just say that one of the major gains that we had from our new Constitution was the issue of inclusivity. Inclusivity includes getting nearer the people as much as it is possible. When we now start going back to the county, we are headed back to the old provincial administration way where we had provinces. The Executive is slowly taking back the gains of this Constitution. This is an issue The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

that must be rejected by this House. We have the responsibility of overseeing the implementation of the Constitution and this is one of the things that the Executive is doing that is eating into the gains of this Constitution. You cannot get people back to the region where we have left. It is denying people the services that we want them to get.

The Cabinet Secretary should appear before the Committee tomorrow morning at 10.00 a.m. That should be communicated from all avenues, namely, from Parliament and at the same time, the Chair of that specific Committee overseeing the Ministry of Defence should talk to them to appear at 10.00 a.m. What the Members are interested to know is what informed the decision to move recruitment to county headquarters. If it is issues to do with budget, this is a budget-making House and we would want to know. Let us have her appearing before your Committee tomorrow at 10.00 a.m. The Members who seem to be having a lot of questions can avail themselves tomorrow and ask those specific questions. I will not direct where the meeting will be hosted because that will be administrative. The next Question is by the Member for Lamu East. That is an Ordinary Question.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.42(A)(5), I wish to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development: (a) When will the Ndau and Kizingitini seawalls, which have been under construction for the last 15 years, be completed? (b) What measures has the Ministry put in place to ensure that the said construction is completed?

To be replied before the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. Next is the Member for Magarini, Hon. Michael Thoyah Kingi, if he is within the precincts.

Hon. Members, Hon. Thoya Kingi actually made a request that this Question be deferred. Maybe it has something to do with the heat of the politics of Malindi. It is deferred to the next available opportunity.

The last one will be by Hon. Gitonga Murugara. The Floor is yours.

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Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to ask Question No.454/2019 to the Cabinet Secretary for Environment and Forestry: What measures has the Ministry put in place to curb illegal water tapping, canalling and other diverting acts by residents living upstream of the main rivers that flow through Tharaka Constituency?

That will be replied to before the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. That marks the end of our Question Time. Next Order!

Order, Members! I confirm that we have the required numbers. I will, therefore, put the Question.

What is it, Hon. Mbadi?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is one of the rare occasions I get so confused in this House. Order No.8 was about putting a Question on the Second Reading of a Bill and it has just been lost. It is very strange that a Bill has been lost in this House. We could have amended the problems we had. I am wondering whether Members were aware of what they were doing.

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The Bill cannot be bad to the extent that it is lost. That is very strange. Hon. Ndindi Nyoro needs to ask himself difficult questions. I have never seen a Bill getting lost in the House like this. I do not know what he has done to Members. However, from the way he is laughing, I do not think he was serious about the Bill. Let me leave it at that.

Now you have raised temperatures which are completely unnecessary. You can see Hon. Ndindi Nyoro is already standing demanding right of reply. I do not know. What is it, Hon. Ndindi?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Whereas I respect the wisdom of this House, I do not think it is palatable for an experienced Member of Parliament like Hon. Mbadi to say the kind of things he has just said. I have spent a lot of time and energy to come up with this Bill, especially to help our President in the fight against corruption. However, corrupt people like Hon. Mbadi have conspired and did everything possible…

Hon. Nyoro, this is the second time you are throwing an unsubstantiated statement. It is completely out of order. In fact, I do not need anybody else to ask me to ask you to withdraw that statement. I have just been sitting here. I heard what Hon. Mbadi said. He simply said that he is surprised that this Bill has not gone through. For you to rise and castigate him as being corrupt by that virtue alone, I mean, is completely out of order. I am not going to allow you to say anything other than to withdraw that particular statement. In this House, recently, including yesterday, there were Members who threw statements about and which went on record. Such statements do not have basis. Please, withdraw and we will expunge that bit. In fact, we will expunge the entire of your statement. It does not make sense really. Before you have a right to anything, please, withdraw and apologise.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Hon. Mbadi was involved in the NYS I.

Hon. Nyoro, No! No!

And Hon. Deputy Speaker, to call me a…

Hon. Nyoro, let me tell you, that is not how things are done in this House. If you have an issue and you want to discuss any of your colleagues, including the one you are seated next to, you bring a substantive Motion. You should know that. You are not a Director of Criminal Investigation (DCI). That is not part of the debate of this House. We must follow the rules. You have to withdraw and apologise or allow me to do, for the first time, something I have not done in this term, and I do not want to do. We cannot have Members throwing words and just deciding, for example, to imagine that we are simply going to send them away before they withdraw. You will have to withdraw one way or the other. Even if I am to remove you from the House today, when you come back, you will still have to apologise. We cannot have two ways about it. We cannot have a House where we throw things left, right and center. So, kindly withdraw and apologise.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have a lot of respect for you. Because of that, I withdraw and request…

And apologise. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

And apologise. However, I request…

Nothing else. Hon. Members, we should be debating with a lot of decorum. The Member has withdrawn and apologised. That marks the end of it. We shall never, again, allow a situation where Members throw statements. Nobody becomes popular by throwing statements in the House. It has never happened. Many Members have been here for a long time and they can tell you that it does not help. So, please, Members, let us debate with a lot of sobriety. I will not entertain any other issue on that particular one. The matter has been dispensed with. Hon. Members made their decision one way or the other and I have simply pronounced the kind of vote they have taken. Next Order had been called. We are now resuming debate which was interrupted on Wednesday, 9th October 2019. About 10 Members had spoken. I, therefore, give an opportunity to any other Member who wishes to speak. Let us start with Hon. Chachu Ganya. However, I can see you had spoken. Is that not so?

I have not spoken to this one.

Okay, proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to support the Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing Board Bill. I want to thank Hon. Bashir Abdullaih for this very important Bill that will support the livestock sector in this country. An attempt was made to pass this Bill during the 11th Parliament, but it did not go through the whole cycle of a Bill to be an Act of Parliament. So, it has been revived in the current Parliament. I want to thank Hon. Abdullaih for this effort. This Bill will streamline the marketing of livestock and livestock products in our country. As it is, very little is being done in terms marketing of livestock products and livestock in our country. The little that is being done is done in a disjointed way. So much duplication goes on and there is little harmony in terms of promoting livestock marketing in Kenya. Livestock marketing is not decentralised. As a result, there is unnecessary competition amongst various agencies supporting the sector. This Bill will cure this problem. For the first time, this Bill will establish a Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing and Promotion Board. The board will have many functions and will try to address the problems in the sector. Among its functions, the board will regulate the marketing of livestock and livestock products and collaborate with all the stakeholders to ensure that livestock is well marketed and promoted locally and internationally. The board will coordinate with other stakeholders and partners. It will be involved in resource mobilisation locally and internationally to promote the sector and ensure good investment is done. It will support development of livestock marketing infrastructure such as abattoirs and other promotion-based activities that will support the sector. It will also promote livestock insurance. This is important. Our livestock die, as they did during the drought that ended a few days ago with the onset of rains. Since our livestock are not covered by any insurance policy, we incur losses in billions of shillings. Once such a cover is regulated by a State corporation, it will cushion our livestock farmers from the vagaries of drought. As disjointed as it is, the livestock sector is important in Kenya. With hardly any support from the State, it still contributes significantly to our Gross Domestic Product (GDP). It supports millions of Kenyans living in the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands of this country. The sector has been marginalised by the Government of Kenya. Products of other sectors of the economy are supported by the State. For example, tea, coffee, pyrethrum and dairy farming are regulated through State corporations like the Dairy Board of Kenya, the Coffee Board of Kenya, among The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

others, that do not only promote the sectors through marketing, but also invest seriously in research to ensure that the products are well marketed and they deliver significant benefits to the farmers who produce them. There is no State corporation that supports the livestock sector in this country. The Kenya Meat Commission (KMC), which has been there since the colonial times, is dead in terms of its functions. It is not doing much to support livestock in this country. If the KMC could be revived and we invest in it like we have done in the tea, dairy and coffee sectors, we would be talking differently. I want Members to support the livestock sector in this country and the millions of Kenyans whose livelihoods are supported by the sector. Once this Bill is passed, it will enable the livestock sector to contribute significantly to the growth of the country. I urge my colleagues to support this Bill. It will enable Kenyans who rely on famine relief food day in, day out to have a stake in this sector and lead dignified lives.

Hon. Nyikal.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. This is an important Bill. Its intent is to regulate livestock trade and livestock products trade. It talks of a variety of products ranging from meat carcasses, milk and milk products, skins, horns and hooves. In the current situation, all these products are scattered in various entities. For example, we have the New Kenya Co-operative Creameries (New KCC), which is operational though it is not doing well as it did before and the Kenya Dairy Board, which is an active entity that is operational. We have the KMC, which is not doing much although it is still in existence. Under the hides and skins dealers, we have the Kenya Leather Development Council (KLDC), which deals with tanneries and the National Livestock and Marketing Council. These are various organisations which deal with the same products. We have a lot of fragmentation. The end result is that there is no synergy. Therefore, the promotion of all these products cannot be effectively done. When you have many organisations dealing with these products, a lot of middle men are involved. It is known that in the agriculture sector, the middlemen seem to get better value in terms of prices while the farmers do not. It is, therefore, important that we have a Bill that seeks to harmonise and coordinate this sector. This Bill is attempting to do that. That is one of the reasons why I support it. The important thing in this Bill is the creation of a board, which is a body corporate. That means it can be taken to task. In its functions, it has attempted to harmonise and coordinate all these organisations. On its structure, it will have its headquarters in Nairobi and its branches in the counties. That is important. The actual production will take place in the counties. So, as much as we will have this board as a national entity under the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock, Fisheries and Irrigation, it has to function properly with the county governments where production will take place. The Bill seeks to include structures that will integrate the board with the counties’ structures. I have looked at the membership of the proposed board and the Bill has made an effort to harmonise it. For example, the membership of the board will have a person nominated by the Council of Governors (COGs). That is the way it should be. This Bill, to a large extent, will serve producers at the county level. The board will have a person nominated by the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA). That is useful because as I said earlier, many organisations are involved in this. If they are not represented in the Bill, obviously, the board will not serve the people that it should serve. I also note that in the membership of the board, there is one person nominated by the Kenya Livestock Marketing Council. I think that is extremely important. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Therefore, I think there has been good effort in this Bill to create coordination and harmonisation structures that are required in the membership of the board. Back to its functions, one of the functions is to collaborate with relevant agencies to promote the trade of livestock and livestock products. Exactly that is what should be done. That is what this Bill should do when it becomes an Act. It is also to advise the national and county governments, particularly the county governments. They will definitely need a lot of guidance if we are going to harmonise and coordinate the sale and promotion of livestock and livestock products. It is also to liaise with the private sector for the same purpose and to facilitate the marketing of livestock and livestock products. The counties trying individually to market these products may not do much. To that extent, the functions of the board and the membership of the board are appropriate for the intent of the Bill. Further, I find that it has structures that are appropriate for the management that is required. The financial provisions are also appropriate. I notice that it intends to get some funding from Parliament as well. To a large extent, this is promotional, which is a national Government function. Therefore, it should be funded by the taxpayer. All the other sources of financing are also acceptable through the activities the board will undertake. As I end, there is only one thing that I think we need to look at in the Bill. I will probably propose amendments. I see no transitional provisions in the Bill. When it becomes an Act, I do not see how the Act will operate without affecting other Acts that are already in operation. So, we will look at that and I think that will require some amendments where necessary. With that, Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support the Bill. Thank you.

Top on the list is Hon. Cheruiyot Jesire.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to support the Bill even before contributing. It is high time, as a country and as a Government, we looked into the issue of livestock and livestock products. It is sorrowful to note that farmers in this country face a lot of challenges when it comes to livestock products like hides and skins, milk and even bones. It is high time we looked at how to assist our farmers. I want to talk from the point of view where things have changed. Farmers in the Rift Valley specifically are moving from farming maize and wheat to keeping livestock. Fortunately, in some parts of Baringo like Mogotio and Ravine, people are planting grass, so that they can feed their livestock. Unfortunately, nobody is giving a lot of attention to the output, namely, the livestock products. Our farmers sell their milk for as low as Kshs20 per litre. When you look at the input that is expended on livestock so that the product can come out, it is very expensive. They cannot manage. It is becoming a business that is not worth it. The business of livestock products is so challenging to our livestock farmers. It is high time the Government put some measures in place, so that farmers can feel that whatever they are doing is helping them. Our farmers have abandoned maize farming because of the price of maize as well as marketing, which do not favour them. The input and the output are high, but in terms of marketing and price, they do not get anything at the end of the year. If they have abandoned maize farming, it is important for us to make agribusiness productive to enable them to take their children to school. A week ago, I visited a farmer in Rongai, Kajiado and on reaching there, the farmer, Mr. Kurgat, was very unhappy with what is happening with the price of milk. It is only after they add value to the product, like making yoghurt or selling mursik, that they can realise a bit of profit. So, it is the duty of the Government to assist these farmers and make the input affordable, so that they can get manageable outputs. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

After talking about the products, we must also ensure the quality of the products. It is important for us, as a nation, to be part of making sure that livestock products are of good quality. Animals should not be given toxic medicines which have not been certified to be healthy for human beings. Up to today, our farmers do not know why they should not give medicines to their animals while milking them and giving the milk to human beings. It is our sole duty to make sure that we teach our farmers, create awareness and make them know that even if the livestock is there and they take care of it, at the end of the day, they go to the butchery to buy meat whose quality is not ascertained. So, these products, as you saw last time in supermarkets and various meat outlets, have such a big problem in the way they get to the people. Even in this Parliament, we use a lot of livestock products. If we are not careful as legislators, we can also be victims of these products if we do not take care of them. It is important for us in this House, as legislators, to pass legislation that is going to help our farmers and at the same time help the consumers of the livestock products. This Bill has come at the right time when our farmers are lamenting and wondering what to do next especially when everyone is running to livestock farming. I am one of the persons who are interested in livestock farming. That is why I visited the farmer in Rongai, but I realised there is a lot of fear outside. Our people are wondering what the Government has for them, so that they can run their day-to-day lives. For some farmers, livestock is the sole breadwinning business that they have. So, the Bill is timely and the right thing. We just need to look at the Bill keenly, so that we can amend it to suit our people’ s needs, so that they can enjoy what they are doing and get proceeds from their businesses.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Very well. Let us have Hon. (Ms.) Sahal Ibrahim.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. At the household level, livestock plays a critical economic and social role in the lives of pastoralists. For agro-pastoralists and small-scale farmers, livestock is their sole means of livelihood. The proposed Bill is concerned with the marketing of livestock and livestock products. This will help create an efficient sector. Part II of the proposed Bill establishes the Livestock and Livestock Products Promotion Board whose functions will be to administrate livestock support programmes. Secondly, it will promote cooperatives in the livestock industry, categorise livestock sectors, monitor the industry and collect information, maintain a register of livestock farmers, set up quality guidelines for the sale of livestock and livestock products and analyse the trends in marketing animal products.

Thank you and I support.

Hon. (Dr.) Pukose.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for allowing me to contribute in support of the Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing Board Bill, National Assembly (Bill) No.2 of 2019 by Hon. Bashir Abdullaih.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, marketing of livestock and livestock products is an area that is timely. There is no livestock product that cannot be marketed right from the meat, skin, hooves and horns. Horns can be used for ornamental purposes. There are some communities which also eat something closer to the hooves.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, the KMC has existed before, but has been a complete let down to many livestock farmers. When you take your animals to KMC, you do not know if you will be paid your money. The equipment in KMC is outdated. The technology is no longer economical. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

This House has on many occasions appropriated money to KMC to try and resuscitate it, but it has become a hole where money is put and it does not provide any value. So, this Bill by Hon. Bashir, once we have established the Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing Board, will go a long way to link up the counties, the national Government and the farmers, so that we can improve the quality of our animals in such a way that we can compete with other countries.

The other day when Hon. Bashir was…

Order. What is it, Hon. Makau?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Hon. (Dr.) Pukose is a top-ranking Member of this House. He knows the politics of all parastatals and Government agencies in this country. Is he in order, therefore, to talk about KMC, which is in my constituency, and he knows very well how much money has been put there and how much money has been squandered by the same management whose board does not constitute any local in that factory?

Hon. Deputy Speaker, sometimes we have to be very reasonable in this House. I am sure if KMC was in his constituency, maybe, he would be reasonable to ask the Jubilee Government that he serves. We have seen the KDF, who are supposed to buy from KMC, buying meat products from private entities and companies.

Now you are starting to debate.

Hon. Deputy Speaker I, therefore, want him to withdraw the statement that KMC is a hole where the Government is putting money because he knows very well that corruption is what has brought KMC to its knees. If we were to have a good management and a board of people who mind and care about KMC, that Commission would be alive, working and giving value for money to the taxpayers in this country.

I think you have made your statement. The only thing is that I am finding it hard to ask Hon. (Dr.) Pukose to withdraw anything because you look like you are both agreeing.

Yes. What he is saying is supporting my allegations. However, the Member wanted to be seen to be speaking on behalf of the KMC. Hon. Makau, I know you are the Member…

No. He was not speaking on behalf of KMC. He was speaking on behalf of his constituents and which is perfectly in order.

We are on the same page with him that money has been pumped into KMC, but there is no value for it. That money has not helped the facility and neither has it helped the farmers who take their animals there. I was saying that when Hon. Bashir was moving the Bill, he raised an issue that Somalia, which is our neighbouring country, which for many years has been a failed state, exports its hides, skins and even livestock to international markets because of improvements in terms of the quality and yet with all our systems in place and a functional Government, we cannot do the same. So, this is a very timely Bill. I hope when we put in place a board, it will look into issues of quality and how we can supply our livestock products and livestock to international markets.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, when you look at other areas such as horticulture and agribusiness, you will find that Kenya is competing effectively. Our tea, coffee and flowers are doing very well in the international markets. However, when it comes to livestock, we have not done very well as a country. This is a time for us to do soul searching. What have we done that is not correct? Let us support this Bill. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

In the proposed board, we have the Kenya Private Sector Alliance being represented. They have a lot of wealth in terms of experience. That is a good contribution. I know some people might be wondering why we do not just put a private alliance for the future. The Bill can be amended in future, but for now we have the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA). Let us allow them to play a role in terms of marketing. They have a wealth of experience in the business sector such that they can contribute to this growing organisation. Later on when we feel that we have another organisation that can do what KEPSA is doing, we can bring an amendment. For now, let us allow KEPSA to bring their wealth of experience to assist us in terms of marketing our livestock and livestock products, since this is the best way that we can support our farmers.

There was an issue about livestock insurance. Apparently, this insurance seems not to have an impact because during drought animals die or are swept away by floods during rainy season and farmers are not compensated. I do not know what the role of the insurance sector is or whether the Government package meant to cushion livestock farmers was implemented or if farmers were sensitised. This is timely and I hope this board will look into the various issues affecting livestock farmers including livestock insurance. They should handle matters livestock in the whole country and not just in the dry areas.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support.

Very well. Hon. Nakara Lodepe.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to join my fellow MPs in supporting this Bill. Sixty per cent of our population depends on livestock farming. When we come up with such ideas of marketing our products, we create jobs for people from the grassroots to the national level because we have milk, skins and other livestock products.

Marketing will create employment and business opportunities for our people at the grassroots level since they will sell to various stakeholders. In as much as we have spoken about this board, it needs to ensure we compete according to international standards by adding value to our livestock products so that they can get better prices. If we do not add value, we will not compete with the international market and this board should be mandated to ensure value addition to all our livestock products.

This board should consider transportation and networking. You know our people at the grassroots level have good products like milk and skins but transporting them to the market is a problem. So, this board should come up with ways of empowering livestock farmers to transport their livestock products to the markets. Even in Kenya we have good markets for our products but, they do not reach these markets. That is why we are challenging this board to ensure they provide transportation facility to the livestock stakeholders.

Formation of livestock savings and credit co-operatives (SACCOs) to provide loans to livestock stakeholders is also a priority which this board needs to look into. Some of them may have brilliant ideas on how to market. If only we can help them to form SACCOs so that they can access loans to buy facilities to enable them to take their products to the markets. Another issue is training, this board needs to ensure they train our people to get skills and knowledge on how to make their products competitive compared to others in the market.

As I conclude, I once said that if we take marketing of livestock products seriously like how we market tea, coffee and wildlife, then the GDP of this country will increase because livestock makes up 60 per cent of our businesses.

With those few remarks, I support. Thank you.

Hon. Sophia Abdi Noor. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute to this very important Bill. From the outset, I want to thank Hon. Bashir Abdullaih for bringing it. I believe this Bill will transform livestock farming in this country.

The principal objective of the Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing Board Bill is to streamline marketing of livestock and livestock products in this country. This is in line with the fact that although the livestock industry is a very important source of income for many households in Kenya, its regulation is carried out by different entities. These many entities have caused duplication of work and competition. It is a waste of resources to have many entities because this leads to conflict of interest, competition and duplication of work. Hon. Bashir brought this Bill with the intention of streamlining the livestock industry because of duplication and competition which has resulted to poor service delivery. This has made the middlemen of this industry to be the main beneficiaries instead of the livestock farmers. Farmers have lost in a big way because they do not have a promotional body to advise, coordinate, strategise and put systems in places to enable them know of the market demand.

The middlemen in this country have benefited much since most livestock farmers are illiterate. They do not have the capacity of understanding that there is an international market. So, this body will establish structures to deal with the marketing concerns. Therefore, the livestock farmers will gain and therefore transform this country as it will benefit in a big way through foreign exchange earnings. This body will promote the trade industry of livestock and livestock products, to include negotiation for markets outside the country, cooperation and coordination of the livestock trade. We know there are many markets out there like in the Middle East. Recently, I was in Morocco and the people there told me they are unable to meet the meat demand in their country. They were asking if they can enter into a memorandum of understanding with our country of importing meat from us. This is a ready market and this body should tap the markets out there. This body will advise our county governments and national Government in terms of marketing outside the country. We have a huge potential out there and they should establish relations with the private sector so as to attract investors and put up proper structures that will improve livestock farming in this country. When this body is finally put in place, duplication and competition among entities will be reduced. It will be limited. The person who will benefit directly from livestock farming will be the farmer. They will get an opportunity to talk to the people and negotiate. That will help them. This body will mobilise resources, not only within this country, but also outside. I am talking about human resource, financial resources and capacity building. This body will reach the farmers. It will collaborate with research institutions and encourage them to conduct proper research and studies that will be designed to promote value addition. We have a lot of small value addition ventures here and there. I have been to several livestock farms in this country and I have found that they are doing it in a small way. However, if you go to other countries, you will find huge industries with proper infrastructure for livestock farming. This body will facilitate marketing of livestock and livestock products. It will also develop skills and adopt appropriate value addition, just as I said before. Finally, this body will support proper infrastructure development. Look at what Botswana is doing in terms of livestock promotion. Livestock and livestock products are the second foreign exchange earner for Botswana. It has developed its livestock farming which is the second best after their minerals. In this country, even though there are no proper structures and coordination, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

the livestock sector is already contributing 12 per cent to our GDP. So, it is important to have a board that will promote, sensitise and give capacity. It will be gold for this country. It can become our next oil after the oil in Turkana. I have been to Somaliland. I went to the Port of Berbera and saw livestock being transported. I was shocked the kind of structures Somalia has in place. It is unfortunate that our country, which has so much livestock, lacks such infrastructure. They transport their livestock to the Middle East and are getting good income. For many years, Somaliland was not getting foreign aid and it was only using the money it was getting from the export of livestock. Kenya can make more money than what Somaliland is making. With those few remarks, I plead with this House to support this Bill so that Kenyan farmers can benefit. This will transform our country in a big way. I am a farmer and I am happy to see light at the end of the tunnel. I support. Thank you so much.

Hon. Makau.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance. This country needs its livestock products to be well marketed. I want to remind this House that Botswana had its meat commission commissioned in 1965 and they came to Kenya to learn about meat processing, meat products and issues to do with the quality of meat. Today, Botswana is the leading exporter of beef and animal products. We have one problem in this country. We establish new authorities and ignore the existing ones. I will remind this House about the Pyrethrum Board of this country. A few years ago, Kenya used to be the lead producer and exporter of pyrethrum. Today, pyrethrum and the Pyrethrum Board are history. They are gone. They are dead. Even the coffee and cotton of this country is dead and yet we had legislation in this House introducing new authorities. Let me cite the KMC as an example. I sympathise and have pity on it. We know that KMC is one of the oldest commissions in this country. As we grew up, KMC was the crème de la crème of companies and anybody in this country could have wanted to work for it. The only closest competitor was the KCC. I have a lot of respect for the Mover of the Motion, but we can ask ourselves a question. If we introduce a new authority that will market the products of livestock, where are we putting KMC? We have had CSs who have come in this Government and instead of reviving KMC, they run parallel meat companies that, as I spoke earlier, supply beef. For example, our KDF and the National Youth Service (NYS) are not buying meat from KMC. The other day when we had the NYS scandal, we saw a kilo of meat being bought at Kshs620 while at KMC it is only at Kshs380. Where are we going to do government to government spending? If we approve this Bill, I can tell you it will be a sure way of killing KMC. As a representative of KMC which sits in my constituency, I cannot stand here and accept this Bill to go through. Why? This is because as a Government, we are supposed to look at what is killing KMC. These sideshows…

Order! What is it Hon. Haji?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to raise the fundamental point of relevance. I can see the Hon. Member is very passionate about KMC. Little does he know that KMC will fall squarely under this Kenya Livestock Marketing Board so that it can be better managed. Even though KMC is right in his constituency, we know that KMC has had a lot of issues from Mavoko Constituency. So, I wanted to raise the issue of relevance.

I think you are casting your net far and wide. Restrict yourself to the Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I understand. I know the Hon. Member is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives and at one point I was wondering how he became the Chairman of agriculture. He should have been a chairman of a livestock entity because he was squarely brought up in a livestock environment. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am very relevant. If you look at the terms of reference of KMC…

Honestly, Hon. Makau, you know agriculture includes anything else and livestock. So, even livestock is still relevant in agriculture. Proceed.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand guided. However, if you look at the mandate and functions of KMC, this Bill squarely sits in the mandate of KMC. If I wanted to be a bit lenient, I would say that this Bill should be introduced as part of KMC’s mandate so that KMC can be seen to be making use of its mandate as an agency which this country started as a pilot scheme and was very successful. Government-in, Government-out, there have been many boards at the KMC. They just allocate money to KMC and the meat is planned for even before it lands at KMC. I have issues with Members who say that KMC is a hole where we just put money. Is there not a Government agency that can arrest the board members and recover the monies that have been stolen from KMC? If we were serious, KMC would be one of the blue-chip companies in this country. I agree that pastoralist communities are the main suppliers of meat to KMC. We cannot start introducing other authorities that will compete with KMC, as much as we talk about relevance. It is true that we can include the mandate of KMC in this Bill so as to empower it and give it meat to chew rather than just allow the commissioners to run the board yet they cannot compete. The hides and skins that are produced by KMC cannot compete internationally. This is because of the international standards regarding the pesticides we use. Botswana learnt from us. Now they are way ahead of us. The whole of the Middle East and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) import meat from Botswana. We should find out where the rain started beating us. We cannot keep on killing our own, yet we introduce other authorities. We are talking about the Punguza Mzigo Bill. The Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) says that Members of Parliament should not be paid, yet we are the same Parliament that is unnecessarily introducing other authorities. We cannot keep on increasing the number of authorities that enjoy money from the Exchequer. With a lot of respect, Hon. Bashir, I request this House to consider anchoring this Bill to the KMC’s mandate. I support the Bill to be anchored on KMC, but on its own, I oppose it in totality.

Let us have Hon. Leshoomo.

Asante sana, Mheshimiwa Naibu Spika. Naunga mkono Mswada huu. Mambo ya wanyama wetu ni mengi. Niko katika Kamati ya Ukulima. Kila wakati huwa tunajiuliza ni kwa nini wafugaji wetu hawana njia yoyote ya kufaidika kutokana na wanyama wao. Sababu ya kutofaidika ni kwamba hawana soko lolote la kuuza wanyama. Hawana mahali pa kuchinjia wanyama. Katika Kenya nzima, hakuna mtu anayeweza kula chakula bila nyama. Unapokula nyama ndipo unahisi umekula chakula. Wanaofuga wanyama huwa wanaumia sana kwa sababu wakati wa ukame, wanyama wote wanakufa kwa sababu hakuna mahali pa kuwauza. Wakati mvua inaponyesha na wanyama wanapopata nguvu, wafugaji wanakosa mahali pa kuwauza. Ni muhimu kwangu kuunga wenzangu mkono kusema kuwa tuwe na bodi ya kushughulikia mambo The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

ya wanyama. Ni muhimu kwa sababu wafugaji wa wanyama wanaumia kwa sababu hawana njia yoyote ya kufaidika au kusaidia familia zao kutokana na wanyama wao. Wale wanaokuza miwa, majani na kahawa wako na njia zote za kujisaidia. Wana soko. Kwa mfano, kuna soko la Kahawa ya Kenya katika kila nchi. Tukipata bodi inayoweza kuwasaidia wafugaji wa wanyama, watapata njia za kufaidika. Tunajua vizuri sana kwamba wafugaji wa wanyama humu nchini hawana njia yoyote ya kujifaidisha isipokuwa kutokana na hao wanyama. Kule Samburu ninakotoka na katika sehemu nyingine kama Laikipia, Turkana na Pokot, utaona wanyama wanapigwa risasi kama wanyamapori. Kwa sababu hakuna nyasi, huwa wanauliwa kama wanyama wa mwituni. Hata wanyamapori hawauliwi jinsi wanyama wetu wanavyouliwa wakati wa ukame. Tukipata bodi inaweza kutusaidia kujua ni njia gani mfugaji anaweza kujisaidia nayo kutokana na wanyama anaofuga. Wafugaji hawana shamba lingine. Shamba lao ni hao wanyama wao. Kunapaswa kuwa na vichinjio katika kaunti zao ili wapate mahali pa kusafirisha nyama. Hata wakiwa na maziwa, hawana mahali pa kuyasafirisha. Itakuwa muhimu sana tukiwa na bodi hiyo kwa sababu itatusaidia na kuwasaidia wafugaji. Inafaa Serikali ianze kutafuta soko la kusaidia wafugaji wapate mahali pa kuuzia wanyama wao. Masoko yanapatikana kila mahali mnyama yuko lakini wanajinunulia wenyewe tu. Hakuna mahali pa kuuza wanyama wao na wapate pesa nzuri. Kenya Meat Commission ilikufa kitambo. Haina mahali popote. Hata wanyama wakipelekwa huko, watu wanaweza kukaa hata miezi sita au mwaka mmoja bila kulipwa. Zile kilo za nyama wanapeleka KMC ni za kuumiza. Kuna wafugaji wengine Wazungu kule Laikipia. Wakipeleka ng’ombe wao, huwa wanatoa kilo 500 au 600 na wetu wanatoa kilo 200. Hatuna njia ya kuwafunza wafugaji wetu jinsi ya kuwalisha ng’ombe wao ili wapate kilo hizo. Kwa hivyo, wafugaji wanaumia. Vita tunavyopigana kuhusu wanyama wanaoibiwa ni kwa sababu ya umaskini. Una mali – ng’ombe na mbuzi – lakini huna mahali pa kuwauza. Huna mahali unaweza kujisaidia. Ingekuwa vizuri tupate bodi hiyo ili izingatie mambo ya wanyama kwa sababu ni muhimu sana wafugaji wafaidike. Naunga mkono Mswada huu.

Coming to my left, let us have Hon. Maanzo. Relax, Hon. Kolosh. You are not very far away. I can see you are very…

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have looked at this Act as a lawyer and having served in the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock and now in the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives, I understand the real problem in Kenya. If we compare ourselves with Botswana and now Somalia, you will realise that our problem cannot be resolved by an Act of Parliament. I want to take note of the fact that there was Legal Notice No.7720 of 2016 where the President came up with a marketing strategy for beef in Kenya, bearing in mind that 80 per cent of Kenyan land is arid. Therefore, beef farming and cattle keeping is a major source of income in this country although it has not been exploited well mainly because of corruption. I agree with farmers that this is a good law but we must make serious amendments at the Third Reading stage to make it effective so that we can be at the level that Botswana is. We have a problem with the way we manage our animals because foreign markets such as the European Market have conditions such as meat handling and inspection by veterinary The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

officers, and whether our meat is safe or not. There are many diseases associated with animals. We have been losing on that end and there is need to find a cure even if we have a board that can market our meat all over the world. This board cannot work in isolation of other legal bodies like the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) that already exist and perform the same functions. Another problem is that we are also not selling locally. There are agreements where the Kenya Prisons Services and the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) utilise our meat, but they have not been doing so and that is why farmers are not being paid for long. They are instead doing business with private slaughterhouses. We can pass this law but the board will be as useless as what KMC has been if we do not address key issues. We must amend this law to be strong enough to give us markets for our animals so that we can sell to the European Union and compete with Botswana and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The Middle East prefers the Somalia beef market than our market because it is more organised. One of the issues that we should deal with in this sector is corruption. Secondly, we have devolution and this law recognises the role of the Council of Governors (CoG), but we should go further because agriculture is now a devolved function. This is to ensure that the marketing strategy in all counties is tightened up. This board should link with all the counties to have a marketing system and strategy. The proposed board cannot work in isolation without the Kenya Meat Commission – which is performing the same function that it seeks to do. The Commission is like a board in another interpretation. There are many Members here who represent beef farmers all over the country and I know there is a public outcry from Kenyans, but we must offer a solution. We should not just emotionally pass a law which is hollow. This law, as it is now, will not help this country. The proposed board will be a duplication of the KMC and other established boards and it will not serve the purpose. We have the Coffee Board of Kenya (CBK) and those who have served in the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock know that there are very many reforms being made to the CBK because it has failed to deliver coffee as a product in this country. Coffee from Kenya is used to blend other types of coffees in the world. It is very useful and has a lot of money. It is black gold but we have never benefited from it as a country. We do not want to fall in the same trap as the other products which have been there so as to please Members like Hon. Kolosh and others from that region, who I support by simply passing this law. I do not want to hurt their feelings but we must be serious with this law and make it effective, sound, address issues, and have proper networks and other Acts of Parliament dealing with it. We are not only dealing with meat products because there are many products from animals such as leather, hooves and horns which are used to make glue. We have a similar board dealing with that. Bones are used to make fertilisers. We need to have a whole system on this particular industry so that our standards can meet the international requirements. We also need to look at health issues involving the quality of our meat. Is our meat safe for consumption? In the modern times, people are very keen on consumption of meat and because of the many diseases, doctors advise people to stop eating meat yet meat is a useful protein. If this market is properly managed, and meat is properly utilised and preserved, it can feed a nation. Why is KDF not buying our meat? Is it a question of corruption or disobedience of the law and Presidential orders? What justification can they give for not buying our own products? Why do they buy meat from other countries while we have a beef industry that is sustained by our own budget? They should buy our meat to enrich the country. I have looked at all the provisions of this Bill other than just establish a board to market our meat products. We have not tapped that since the proposed board will be financed by the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Kenyan Budget, when it goes to the European Union and the UAE, will it come back with markets and orders? There are so many institutions that need beef such as international chains of hotels. The marketing strategy…

Your time is up because the Mover is supposed to respond.

(Makueni, WDM-K)

The Mover can now respond. The rest of the Members can seek help from the Mover. I have no more time to give. It is now 11.17 a.m.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to donate two minutes each to the following Members: Hon. Memusi, Hon. Kolosh and Hon. Koske.

Hon. Memusi, proceed with your two minutes.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I would like to thank Hon. Bashir, first, for introducing this Bill to the House and second, for donating two minutes to allow me contribute to this important Bill. I also want to thank Members who have contributed to this Bill. I want to urge those who have opposed the Bill to, first, understand what the proposed Meat Marketing Board is capable of doing. A lot about what the proposed board will do has been said. I want to first talk about the KMC that the Member for Mavoko spoke about passionately. The establishment of the KMC without a board was initially a mistake. The proposed board will correct the earlier mistake. Let me mention a few things that the marketing board will do for pastoralist farmers. First, we do not have in place an identification and traceability system for our animals. What is the importance of that? We know very well that if we are to export even our agricultural produce, the first thing that needs to be done is…

Hon. Memusi, you had only two minutes. You cannot debate as if you have ten minutes. It is now the turn for Hon. Kolosh to contribute.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Allow me to thank Hon. Major (Rtd.) Bashir for bring this important Bill. Let me go on record that I support it.

It is good to understand the current situation we are facing in marketing livestock and livestock products and it is also important to understand that even the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) deals with one aspect of livestock and its products. The truth of the matter is that issues regarding livestock are scattered in different institutions. We believe that by bringing them together, including the KMC will necessitate a centre where information will be available to livestock farmers. I believe livestock keeping can contribute not less than 30 per cent of the GDP as opposed to the current 12 per cent. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

By organising livestock farming, just like the other sectors, we also believe that value addition of livestock and its products will be faster hence leading to the growth of the economy in general. The current situation is that livestock die when there is drought and when there are floods like now, no institution is of help. This will come to an end by the formation of this board. The board, among other things, will regulate information and ensure that there is a centre that indicates prices, diseases and movements of livestock.

Hon. Member for Chepalungu, two minutes is a very short time. Yes, Hon. Kolosh.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I thank Hon. Bashir for donating two minutes to me.

At the outset, livestock is the most valuable asset of many households in Kenya, especially in the constituency I represent. There is little attention from the Government to all livestock farmers in the country. It is high time the Government injected a substantial amount of money to the livestock sector because it is the livelihood of Kenyans and it helps in economic empowerment in the country.

Eighty per cent of our population consumes meat and there is no better delicacy in Kenya than nyama choma or roast meat. It is very important that the Bill sails through. I thank Hon. Bashir for coming up with this Bill.

I would like to inform the Member for Mavoko, Hon. Makau that this Bill will assist KMC market its products. KMC has messed up the livestock industry. So, Hon. Makau should be the first one to support it.It will help in the marketing of livestock products like milk, hides and meat. He needs to support and not oppose it.

Thank you, Hon. Bashir for donating some of your time to me.

The Mover has six minutes to reply. You had indicated that you had only three Members you wanted to donate some of your time to and that has happened. So, you now have six minutes to wind it up.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am sure there is a lot of interest from Members. They are still asking me to donate one minute each to two of them. I beg your indulgence that I donate one minute each to them so that I remain with three minutes.

Hon. Bashir, proceed.

I congratulate and thank the Members who have made very good contributions so far. I have taken note of the many concerns they have raised. The Livestock and Livestock Products Marketing Board Bill will assist livestock farmers across the country. It is not something that will pertain to a specific region. As we know, every household in Kenya has some livestock.

The Bill will ensure the marketing of livestock products both locally and internationally. The concerns various Members have raised, one of them being the KMC, are valid. We know that the greatest beneficiary of this Bill will actually be the KMC because it will strengthen it by ensuring that KMC’s products are bought locally and internationally through this board. As we speak now, there are a lot of issues with KMC. So, we believe that with this board in place, those things will be past tense.

The reason we came up with this Bill is the fact that since Independence, we have never had a livestock promotion Bill or Board. In other sectors we have the Tea Board of Kenya, the Coffee Board of Kenya and the Pyrethrum Board of Kenya, but the livestock sector has remained neglected over the years. This is what this Parliament is trying to make right so that livestock The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

farmers are not left behind. Remember we have a huge international market that we are not able to tap because there are no standards in place and no regulations, and every sub-sector within the livestock industry operates on its own without guidance, regulations and systems being put in place.

I believe that once we pass this Bill and see to it that it sees the light of day, and then issues concerning the livestock sub-sector will greatly benefit Kenyans in large numbers. Right now we see livestock dying because of rainfall. They die when there is rain and when there is drought. Which board is talking about the grievances or the pathetic situation livestock farmers are in?

I thank Members for their contributions and urge the House to ensure we have this Board in place.

I beg to reply. Thank you.

Hon. Members, for a reason, I direct that the next necessary steps will be taken in regard to this Bill when the matter is set again in the Order Paper.

Next Order!

Hon. Members, this is a Motion by Hon. John Munene Wambugu. He had already moved it and it had been seconded. Hon. Ali Athman, Hon. Cheruiyot Jesire and Hon. Kitayama Maisori had contributed. It is now open for us to proceed with it. The first Member with interest on my board is Hon. Kanyuithia, the Member for Tigania West.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. I would like to start by thanking Hon. John Munene Wambugu for bringing this Motion. As a country, we are in a stage where we are losing a large proportion of our youth who do not transit to the tertiary education levels. The reason is that they fail at Form Four. When they fail at Form Four, they are not able to proceed either to middle level colleges or to the universities. It is important to note that the Government has made some laudable efforts in coming up with Technical Training Institutes (TTIs) across the country where in every sub- county, we will have a TTI. The moment we have them in place, we should also look at the other side – the demand side of the technicians that we will produce. Many of our youth are not very much interested in joining the TTIs. As Members of Parliament and leaders of this country, we should be asking ourselves why the youth are not very keen to join TTIs or middle-level colleges. First of all, if you look at the traditional colleges like Kenya Medical Training Colleges (KMTCs) the Teachers Training Colleges (TTCs) and other colleges that train technicians, we realise that there are serious restrictions on the method that is used to usher them in. So, most of the youth are filtered out. On the other hand, when it comes to TTIs, we have a problem of job absorption in the job market. We know for sure that for a country to get at the stage of development it needs to have more technicians than managers. In this country, we have focussed more on university education. I would like to laud the recent reforms witnessed in university education. In the past, university education has been viewed as the only way to have people succeed in life. You must not have a degree to succeed in life! In this life even technicians are required. At the stage of development, we need more of technicians than managers who are trained at the university level. We are discharging a large proportion of labour force, but there are no jobs for that labour force. Therefore, it forces Kenyans to make choices as to which colleges they go to. In other words, we need to make it attractive for the technicians to join the technical training institutes. How do we make it attractive? We need to have a structured absorption mechanism whereby the technicians can also be stratified in levels where they are able to join various job markets in terms of construction. We need to restrict ourselves when we are doing projects by hiring our own people. We have projects going on in this country, but they are taken up by foreigners. It seems to be okay because the foreigners hire many people from outside this country. That presents a problem because we lack absorption of our own people. It is a move that serves to dissuade the youth from getting job opportunities. That is the reason we are not able to absorb as many youths as possible. We are unable to train the youth accordingly. On technical training, as a country, we should consider improving the skills of our youth once we set up the TTIs… I know of countries like Australia which require skilled labour force. They need carpenters, masons, plumbers and all sorts of TTI trained people, but these technicians must pass through some assessment so that they fit the job market in terms of skills that they need. We have not put that in place as a country. Therefore, for us to sell our labour The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

force outside the boundaries of Kenya, we must create that level of technical training at advanced level. It should be specific to the needs and policies of a given country. On the other hand, we have also not been able to absorb our youth after technical training because of the expansion of the economy. Our economy is not growing at the speed it should be growing. If you look at Vision 2030, at this point in time our economy should be growing at 10 per cent per annum, but we are doing around 5.2 per cent per annum. The question should be: Where did we go wrong and what happened? Why have we not grown at that level? What have we been doing as a people and as a country that has affected the growth of our economy? We realise that the greater majority of people who should contribute to the economic development of this country are not actively involved in the productive growth of our country’s economy. The reason is that they do not have the requisite supply levels of resources and also governmental recognition. A good example is the agricultural sector where I have done most of my work. I know that it is a sector we should have supported long time ago in order to grow this economy. I know that many countries have grown through agriculture because they decided to improve their agricultural systems. Through various forms of transformation, they have managed to create jobs. Kenya, presently, is unable to create jobs through the manufacturing sector. It can only do 13 per cent so far. Manufacturing has never been able to exceed the 13 per cent contribution to the nation’s GDP. At least, agriculture sometimes goes beyond 50 per cent. We can have 30 per cent direct contribution by agriculture and 27 per cent through related activities. If we improve on the possibility of creating jobs, say, through various transformations like value addition, we will be able to absorb many of the technicians. It is one way of encouraging the youth to join training institutions. When it comes to the actual training, we need to ask ourselves what exactly do we train our youth for in those institutions. How are the courses they are taking valued in the market? How does the market treat and absorb them? What mechanisms are used to ensure absorption? There has not been any serious consideration about these factors. Therefore, we need to structure our education. We need to have the middle-level training as much as we have the degree level training. Our universities ought to open up a lot more of the technical level training so that we can have most of the youth joining universities and getting certificates and diplomas. Besides getting certificates and diplomas, we should have a transition mechanism where somebody who did not necessarily pass very well at Form Four can pass through a technical training institute and get a grade that would enable them to join university. I know this happens but not in all universities. We should also be able to link the TTIs with universities in the sense that high performers within the TTIs should be able to be accorded positions within the university so that they are able to do university education and get degrees. I know most of the youth would like to have degrees. How can we facilitate those who dropped out in Form Four to get degrees? The only way is to pass them through middle-level colleges and have a mechanism of transition from the middle-level colleges to universities. I know of people in this country who passed through the long route. They are now seasoned individuals and very productive in the development of the country. It is because they have been able to sharpen their edges with time. They have done very well. Hon. Speaker, coming to my last point, we need to reduce the number of youths who are out there doing anything that comes their way. We need to organise our youths.We need to ask ourselves how many opportunities we are creating in terms of training so that we may be able to absorb the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

population of youth that we discharge from secondary schools into middle level training institutions so that they can be absorbed in the job market. With those remarks, I support.

Hon. Oundo, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this timely Motion. Each year the country registers a large number of students to sit for Form Four exams. As many of us are aware, probably, less than 15 per cent in a normal society succeed to join university to do some serious courses. Of course, there are some who go to do courses that might not be serious as such, but nevertheless they still go to the university. Many of them go to universities that probably would not qualify to be universities in a serious system. However, since we have created them, we must sustain them in one way or another. It leaves out a very large chunk of students. These are young men and women who are unable to progress in life. There is a bad mentality. If you do not go to university, you are branded a failure. Our society is structured such that every parent would wish to sit in a social gathering, be it in chama or church group, and boast how their children are in the university. This mindset has been inculcated in young people to an extent that students who do not qualify to join university crash psychologically because they are seen to have failed the exams. Many of us who work in our constituencies interact with our people. Many a times, parents would tell you that they are sorry that their children failed their final exams. When you ask them how their children performed, they would tell you that they did not qualify to proceed to university. The starting point is to talk to parents; including me, to have a positive mindset. Ideally, no student fails exams. It is only that one student gets more marks than another. It does not mean that the one who scored low marks failed. In any case, all of you can never get equal marks. That then beats the essence of a competition. There is need to find a mechanism of equipping students who do not make it to university. There should be a process of ensuring that they acquire skills that would make them useful in life. Even if they want to be in whatever form they want, post-secondary skills are important for development and advancement of society. It is, therefore, important that the Government puts in place mechanisms for ensuring that we have 100 per cent transition to various cadres of post-secondary school training. There are other students who sit for Standard Eight exams but for some strange reasons, they do not wish to proceed to secondary. They do not think they have the motivation to go through the rigorous secondary school education programme. It is, therefore, important that, as Parliament, we support the Government in putting in place mechanisms that will take young boys and girls to the next level of training. We are specifically aware that vocational training centres are a devolved function managed by the county governments. However, the investment by county governments in vocational training centres for the last eight years has been minimal. These institutions, which were taken away from the national Government, were called village polytechnics. For example, in Busia County, where I come from, there has not been any improvement in any of the eight institutions that were village polytechnics, since they were handed over to the county government. They remained dilapidated and inadequately staffed. They also do not have training equipment. There is the stigma that village polytechnics are meant for Standard Eight failures or people who did not go to school. That mentality has made the county governments not The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

expand these technical training institutes. It is incumbent upon the county governments to invest heavily in modernising the village polytechnics or vocational training centres to enable students have a positive mindset and enrol for training programmes in those training institute. As we are aware, it is government policy that each constituency must have a technical training institute. Again, the challenge is that many of our young people, who do not qualify to join university, naturally end up being demoralised. Motivating them to join these institutions has been a herculean task. We keep on preaching this message wherever we go. The Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) provides Kshs40,000 and Government capitation of around Kshs30,000. With that kind of funding, it is adequate to sustain students in class for a whole academic year for the two-and-half year certificate course and the three-year diploma. I urge young people all over Kenya to seize this opportunity to equip themselves with skills to enable them sustain their lives after secondary school. Refusing to join these institutions because you think the training is not worth your time, and that they are reserved for people who did not make it to university, is a recipe to generally undermining your life in the coming years. I also urge the Government to ensure that there are outreach programmes because many students are not aware of the existence of these opportunities. I urge school principals and career masters in secondary schools to take this opportunity to preach the gospel to students who are about to sit for their Form Four and Standard Eight exams: That career choices in this country are boundless. Opportunities are there. It is only that things have changed. The days of the white collar jobs are gone. The days when one would get a Form Four certificate and be entitled to a white collar job – where one would put on a suit and sit on a swinging chair with a telephone headset on his desk – are all dreams. We must leave dreamland and come back to reality. I want the Ministry of Education to seriously have a look at the management of universities. Have a look at the courses being offered by universities and how those universities administer trainings. It beats logic for a university to offer a certificate and a diploma course. Universities should focus on undergraduate, graduate and post-graduate programmes. They should venture into research and dissemination of information. Packing classrooms with students to compete with TIVETs and other vocational training centres, offering certificates in animal production and automotive engineering is really to miss the point or essence of a university. Universities should also stop offering courses that no longer attract students – courses that do not support Vision 2030 and the Big Four Agenda – so that they free space and facilities for courses that support the Big Four Agenda. I am talking about training that support manufacturing. This country will not develop unless we invest in manufacturing, value addition, and in activities that create employment. We should invest inventures that create money in the economy. I have nothing against some art-based courses or humanity-based courses. However, it gets to a point when you have to make a decision to solve a problem once and for all and go back to do other things. With those few remarks, I support the Motion hoping that when we are done with it, it will be brought back in the form of a Bill for enactment into law. Thank you, Hon. Speaker. With those few remarks, I support the Motion. I hope that when we are done with the Motion, my colleague will capture this in a Bill so that we debate and enact it in this House. Thank you.

Well spoken Hon. (Dr.) Oundo. You have spoken like a true ambassador for the Department of Vocational Training. If I encounter the good Permanent Secretary (PS), Dr. Desai, I will ask him to consult with you so The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

that you can share with him what you have said here. The attitude that we have towards vocational training in this country is not the correct one. We should encourage it the way you have done. We shall have contribution from Hon. Kipyegon, the Member for Emurua Dikirr.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. Like I have said it before, such kind of Motions need to come in form of amendment Bills so that after debating and passing them in this House, they are enacted into law. As you may know, these are issues that affect the whole country. Therefore, it is important that such a Motion is enacted as a law that will compel the Government of Kenya to implement it like it did with the 100 per cent transition of students from primary schools to secondary schools. For many of us who visit many countries, we have seen situations where education has been prioritised such that it is rare to find any person who has not seen the inside of a university. In fact, three quarters of the population in Europe and America have gone to university. It does not matter whether after pursuing that university education, you get employed or not. It is important that people go through that kind of education. I was also in a country where almost everybody has a Masters degree, including shoe shiners, painters and furniture fundis. Those are people who have gone through university education. When they do their work, they do it perfectly. When you find a shoe shiner who has a degree or a Masters degree, they do it so perfectly that you may stay for more than two weeks without shining your shoes. So, it is a fallacy in this county of believing that when you open up the university doors, there will be many graduates and thus idlers. I do not understand that concept. We need to open up our education system in the country. We need an educated Republic. We need people who have gone through serious education. Employment opportunities in this county are many. Nowadays, you will find many people working as quacks, especially in the medicine field. Those could be people who have been yearning to be doctors for a long time. However, because they did not have the opportunity to join the Kenya Medical Training Colleges (KMTCs) or universities to study, they ended up treating people without the basic education. That shows you that there are many people in this country who, if given an opportunity to go to school, they will do marvelous things. We have seen serious business people who have never gone to school. If they were to have a diploma or a degree, we would have serious business people in the Republic. I, therefore, wish to support his Motion on policy measures to ensure 100 per cent transition from secondary education to tertiary education. I hope in future we are going to have 100 per cent transition to universities. Anybody who goes through primary education must go through secondary education, college education and university education. Those who do not qualify to directly join universities can qualify to do certificate courses, then diploma and higher national diploma and finally a degree. So, we should have a situation in our country where anyone who has gone to school must go through all those relevant stages in education, so that we can have a nation of learners. The 100 per cent transition of primary school learners to secondary school is going to fill our secondary schools. Where will those students go immediately after secondary education? This Motion is important. I want to urge the Member who introduced it to ensure that it is drafted as a Bill and passed into law. We have money. Sometimes, I wonder why we cry when we touch on matters of health and education. Those are fundamental areas of human life. It will be prudent for us, as Members of Parliament, to ensure that when we are budgeting, we allocate a lot of money to those two fundamental areas. An educated nation is a bright nation that makes its people civil and looks The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

upright. A healthy nation makes its people work for 24 hours. If our representative Houses of Parliament, the Senate and the National Assembly, and the county assemblies ensure that most of their budgets are allocated to education, our children will attain education that will help them in future. Sometime back, I read an article that the Republic of China has changed over 600 universities into colleges. The reason they decided to do that is that most of the learners who went through university education learnt a lot of theories and when they graduated, they did not know many things. People who go through college education in diploma, higher national diploma and certificate are really trained towards a particular specialisation. If you go to most of our hospitals in the country, the students who have diplomas are the most employed than those who did degree in nursing. That shows you that our college education is superior to the theories that we obtain from universities. So, this idea of having 100 per cent transition to colleges will go a long way to help our population in attaining the required skills that will help this country to move forward both in medicine, electrical and other fields. In the last Parliament, my constituency was one of the most marginalised in the Republic. When we got our constituency, the highest level of a learning institution was a high school. We never had even a driving school or a single college that could offer a certificate in computers. I made it a norm in our constituency to have many learners join colleges like Technical Training Institutes (TTIs) and National Polytechnics. We never had people with such skills in my constituency. During that tenure, I used my National Government-Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) Committee to allocate some funds towards building a Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC). I am grateful that within three years, we have managed to build a serious KMTC which we launched a month ago. In March, we will have admissions for students to do a variety of courses in that KMTC. We also opened a TTI. I thought this should go a long way in helping our students to learn. If this Motion was to become law, my constituents would benefit, mostly in learning skills that can help them in our areas. So, I wish to state clearly that I support. I urge the Member concerned not to urge the Government, but to bring this as a Bill or an amendment to an Act that exists so that we can make it a law and help our population have the 100 per cent transition to colleges. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Congratulations, Hon. Kipyegon, the Member for Emurua Dikirr. You put your money where your mouth is and you have done well for your people by setting up the medical training college and the TTI. I think that is what leadership is all about. What is out of order, Hon. Kemosi?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is nothing which is out of order. There is a lot of interest in this debate. Because of time, I propose that we limit the debating time to five minutes, so that as many Members as possible can make contributions.

Hon. Kemosi, your intentions are noble, but you have run foul of your own rules. The rules require that when you want to make a request like the one you have made, you should do so at the very beginning before debate begins. Now the hands of the Speaker are tied. It is up to Members to know that there is a lot of interest in this and limit what you want to say so that the next Member can also have an opportunity to speak. I hear you but my hands are tied by the rules of the House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Ombaka, Member for Siaya, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. First of all, I want to appreciate the Member who has brought this Motion, Mheshimiwa John Munene. 100 per cent transition is in line with the right to education for everybody in this country. Everybody has a right to access education, retention and completion of education. So, this is a move in the right direction. I believe that when you talk of 100 per cent transition, we need to start much earlier than secondary school to university. We need to start from ECD classes. The students that join ECD classes must all move to primary schools. Nobody should drop out. From primary, they should move to secondary schools all of them and from secondary schools to universities. That means there will be no dropout cases as we have always seen. Students normally drop out of school because of lack of school fees or they are not motivated enough to continue. Early marriages are always a problem to young girls. If we insist on 100 per cent transition, we shall save the lives of those who drop out of school too early. So, I can see a situation where dropping out of school is going to be minimised or it will never be there at all. That is because the coming of this Bill into a law will ensure that everybody transits to the next level. That is the best part of this. Everybody will be able to access education at every level and they will be useful to the society. A nation that does not go to school is one that is behind in development. So, this is the way Kenya will ensure that education works and everybody enjoys the benefits of education. I really appreciate that. The challenge I see, however, is that, if we put 100 per cent transition as a compulsory requirement, we also need to do other things to make it work 100 per cent. We must make sure that we have technical schools built on time. Certain constituencies have technical colleges. They have already been built and are functioning and students are in classes. Some constituencies still are looking for land; they still have got no money and have not put up colleges. We need to put timelines. When are we going to have technical colleges? When are we going to have medical colleges so that our students transiting from secondary schools will have access to colleges? That is very important. We must put in place colleges on time. And we must have timelines so that every child in every constituency will have access to technical colleges to get the education or skills that are required. The second thing that we need to ensure so that 100 per cent transition works is that we need to put money in place for many students who cannot make it to colleges. They pass exams, want to transit to secondary or to university, but they do not have a single cent to go to college. That is why we need to allocate more funds for bursaries that I see the NG-CDF is doing very well in. More money needs to be allocated to CDF to educate children. Women representatives have the National Government Affirmative Action Fund (NGAAF) as well, and there is some little amount for bursaries. It is far too little. I would like to ask this House in the next Budget to consider allocating more money to NGAAF and CDF for bursaries, so that 100 per cent transition is practical and will work. Otherwise, it will end up being a theory. We are putting it in law that everybody moves to secondary school and university, but we have not allocated money to educate them. The third point is that even the colleges that we are putting up, let us try and get teachers for them. One hundred per cent transition is achievable. But if teachers are not there, colleges are not there and money is not there, then we are talking nonsense. We are not being practical enough. For me, those are the answers to 100 per cent transition, as a teacher and somebody who also knows the shortcomings that we have in the education sector. Education is important for all of us, but it cannot be of quality if we do not have money for students, if we do not have teachers The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

for students and if the students do not have enough access to education. To me, this is very important. The final point I want to make is that education does not mean that when you go to university, you must get a job. There is self-employment. I know it is very difficult to be self- employed, but we still need to highlight that it is key. That is what we see in other countries. I was in a Masters class in UK with an old woman. She was over 60 and she was doing a Masters degree. When we asked her: “Why are you going to school so late in life?” She said she needs education. Who says she needs a job? She did not think of a job at that time. She simply said she wanted education. That taught me that when you get education up to a certain level; you may not be looking for a job after that. You may just want to be well-informed and well-educated; somebody who wants to be a properly-informed individual in the society. That was the way she argued. I was convinced by what she told us. I see a situation where we go to school and there are no jobs. But going to school in itself is a good thing even if you have no job because it opens up your mind. You become well-informed. You can be self-employed. You can do something useful. So, even if universities may be offering certain courses that are not useful, remember that we still need information in those areas. I have been a lecturer in a university and one of the arguments we had during that time was that certain courses must be removed; that they do not need to be there at all because they are not beneficial to anybody. They were never removed at the end of the day. It was realised that we still need to learn certain things that are old-fashioned or that are not modern, but they are necessary because they open up our minds. So, I want to support this Motion because it will address the issue of everybody having an opportunity to go to school. 100 per cent transition may seem ambitious at this point in time but there is nothing wrong with putting it in place so that we can start moving towards achieving it.

This is going to support women who drop out of school. I see many women being saved by this Motion. They will not just drop out. Even if they drop out, the opportunity will be there again to go back to school, even for those who get married early enough. It will mean that you get married but you continue going to school. Nobody will stop you from going to school and that, to me, is 100 per cent gain.

Thank you very much Hon. Member for bringing this Motion. It is saving lives and making everybody to go to school and those who are disadvantaged to be able to achieve what they want to achieve, and nobody will ever be at home.

Right now in the villages, we see young boys and girls with good grades such as B+, A plain or A-. Such people should go to university. Students who should continue with education are in the villages herding cattle and if you ask them why they are at home with such good grades, they will tell you they have no money. So, 100 per cent transition will address their plight and many of them will go to school. I support this Motion because it is good for the nation and it is going to empower everybody in this country to access education, be retained and complete education.

I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I support.

What did I hear? Did I hear an Hon. Member shout? We shall have Hon. Mohamed Sheikh, the Member for Wajir South.

Thank you very much Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support this Motion. I can hear my colleagues yelling out “time”! I shall obviously stand by that. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

This Motion touches on the nitty-gritty that is required for our children and future generation. That is where ideally this Motion touches. It is where the rubber meets the road. That is what we will do. Article 55 of the Constitution of Kenya clearly spells out that the youth should achieve their full potential through education and training.

Therefore, in line with that, this Motion touches on that aspect of Article 55 of the Constitution of Kenya. This country lacks absolute training and this means that many Kenyans are not educated to the level that we would have expected them to be. Going to primary schools and dropping out even at secondary levels is not sufficient enough to call ourselves an educated nation. For this nation to be an educated nation, it requires to inculcate efforts that can increase the knowledge and skills of our society.

This country lacks apprenticeships. It requires people who transition from a lower level of education to middle level of education so that they can carry the bulk of the practitioners of technical skills. In the 1800, there used to be the “Journey man.” This is an individual who is considered to be going out daily for work that may be skilled or not. Eventually, that transitioned further and became an apprenticeship where an individual comes out with particular skills and knowledge. Those skills are used for their day to day earnings. Those are plumbers, electricians and carpenters; individuals who can impart their skills into particular jobs which can earn them their daily bread and that help them to support their families.

The 100 per cent transition from primary to secondary schools was a God sent decision to this country. Many children who are missing out on secondary schools because they did not get a particular grade have been abolished. That was a great thing for our children to have. So, we need that possibility that our students from secondary schools can transition to the next level of tertiary education. This is so that they can get skills and do not just become a “journey man or woman” that ends up not getting the right education or middle level skills. In other parts of the world, we have the white collar and blue collar workers. The white collar workers are those that have gone to the highest level of education and are working in offices. The blue collar workers are those in the middle level of education and knowledge. Those are people or practitioners who come through apprenticeship and become middle level practitioners. They go daily to do works such as plumbing, electrical, craftsmanship and the like. So, those are the people who are called blue collar workers.

However, those are very important people. They form the largest bulk of modernised countries and those that are heading there. They contribute high tax revenue. They increase tax collection in this country. So, those are the people that we want to approach and ensure that we have given them another transition level where they can get their secondary certificate and then from there they can go in to apprenticeship and traineeship and become blue collar workers. That is the time they will start contributing to this country.

Apprenticeship is done while the trainee is still working. Meaning that you have finished your secondary school education, gone for an apprenticeship and may not have succeeded in going to the university. But you get skills through job training. So, a mechanic is trained at the garage. At that garage, a young man is enrolled as an apprentice, taught how to fix cars, others can become carpenters and taught how to make furniture and then from there on that person can become independent. They eventually open their businesses and thus becoming independent young men and women who can contribute to the economy of this country. They contribute to the lives of the current and the next generation of our future. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Therefore, I support this so that, at the next level, we will ensure that our young men and women go to another level of education. Our old village polytechnics have advanced to TIVETs. There are TIVETs that are working hand in hand with polytechnics.

However, those are the ones we need to support so that our people can get the opportunity from all doors. For the society to be intellectually well-off and be resilient, it must be educated. It must also go to the next level of education as primary and secondary education is not enough. All other challenges that we have today - if I can just choose one – psycho-pathological issues are really common...

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have ten minutes to talk and I can see my colleagues jumping up and about and saying that I should be completing early enough. Well, they should sit there and listen to the contributions that are of value to this country.

Hon. Members, the Hon. Sheikh will have his time to finish. He is still within his time.

Thank you very much for coming to my aid. So, for the hullabaloos and yellers, there are many trees out there for people to dangle on like monkeys in the forests. Psychopathology is a challenge that is there…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Sheikh, just hold on for a minute. Hon. Shamalla, what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have just heard the Hon. Member liken Members who were interjecting to monkeys in the forest. Can he withdraw that statement and apologise?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Hon. Shamalla got an opportunity to talk in this House. I guess she always looks for an opportunity to interject me.

Hon. Sheikh, you are out of order! You must withdraw that comment and apologise!

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, can I get the exact statement so that I apologise?

Hon. Sheikh, you will not argue with the Speaker. I heard you clearly. You must withdraw and apologise.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I withdraw and apologise. I want to clearly state that Hon. Shamalla gets an opportunity whenever I stand up to interject me. So, she can continue to interject whenever I stand up. She should not waste my minutes since I want to contribute to this. She has done so before and…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Sheikh, hold on, Hon. Shamalla what is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Member is continuing to attack me. I do not interject him whenever he speaks. He has insulted Members of this House.

Hon. Shamalla, you have perfectly interjected and your interjection was correct. The Member has correctly withdrawn and apologised. He will proceed with his delivery. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. To complete my points, psycho-pathology is a critical issue. This is what causes substance abuse and hopelessness in this country. Young men do not have an opportunity to carry on with their studies.

There is a significant relationship between the drop-out from schools and suicidal behaviour, mental health, depression and hopelessness among the youth simply because they are unable to complete their education. If we do not act early, support our children and youngsters, this country will face the peril of destruction.

As I conclude, in this House, there are Members who get an opportunity to contribute by interjecting important debate which a Member is giving. They should know there are people who know how to speak and there are others who can interject their position. So, they should learn their position. So, continue Hon. Shamalla.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Members, it is well. The Member for Dagoretti South, what is it?

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. We all understand that this is a House of debate. I want to know if the Member is in order to say Members who interject him as he contributes are out of order to so. This is not a House of monologues or one individual speaking to others. This is a House of debate. Is the MP in order?

Hon. Sheikh, you must know that this is a House of debate. Interjections and all that happens here. Members are allowed to do so.

You cannot respond Hon. Sheikh. So, Members interjections are part of debate in this House and they will continue to be so. If Hon. Sheikh wishes to have a monologue, he can choose another forum other than this House. But as long as he wants to contribute in this House, he must be ready to be interjected.

Hon. Members, we have very limited time and we have a lot of interest in this. Kindly allow Hon. King’ola Makau to make his contribution.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. That was on a light note and I hope Hon. Sheikh was not serious about it. I think it is important that when we are in this House, we respect each other. All Members are here to be heard and not to be seen.

I agree that the Government must have a 100 per cent transition from secondary education to tertiary education. We must ask ourselves what happened because we have very many policies. The idea of village polytechnics was ideal and noble. This is because in the past, village polytechnics used to serve anybody who had reached Standard VII or VIII. In the villages, you could find masons, carpenters and tailors. There was even distribution of craftsmanship and some technicality was happening. It deviated Kenyans from thinking that white collar jobs are everything.

This policy will guide this Government and, particularly, the Ministry of Education on introduction of TVETS in most constituencies. As I stand here, I want to ask how many The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

constituencies have technical training institutes in this country. I know it is important to give our children education that will help them get employment; either self-employment or by various Government departments.

We have the Youth Fund and Women Fund and we have never adequately addressed the idea of empowering the youth even before we give them cash. We have never embedded entrepreneurship and trained them on how to run their businesses. I think it is high time this policy was implemented and remained truthful to the core. I want to agree with Members and particularly one speaker who said universities are engaging in certificate and diploma courses. Long time ago, going to the university was a pipe dream. Every child dreamt of going there. Today, I see the University of Nairobi (UoN) and other universities offering certificate and diploma courses and this is demoralising graduates. When you qualify to go to a university, you know it is a place of learning. I think the inclusion of certificate and diploma courses in the universities, is not noble. We need to leave universities to offer degree courses and promote more tertiary institutions to offer certificates and diplomas. So, we can have 100 per cent transition and the students can have an urge to go to higher learning institutions like universities. Indeed, when I look at the world all over, technology is here with us. We cannot ignore the fact that Information and Communications Technology (ICT) is real and it makes about 30 per cent of businesses. If we introduce technical studies particularly computer related ones, we will be helping very many youths. We can start this from primary and secondary schools, but we should make it competitive. If you go to China and the other tiger economies, you will find very many school-going pupils and students being involved in building mother boards and watches. We can also do the same in Africa. I know Jubilee had a noble idea of introducing computers to primary schools, but we are not serious. If we were serious, we would see computer libraries working and they should not be a political gimmick. Going forward, if we are going to legislate and see laws made in this House implemented to the benefit of our citizens and the people we represent, it will be very much in order to have anybody from Standard VIII to Form IV having an academic certificate based on their talents. The other day, I listened to the CS for Education saying that you should not hate your child because of bringing you a D in the House. If we give someone with a D or an E education that is based on their talent, we will never have a loser. Everybody will be a winner. Indeed, I agree. Let us have that transition from Form IV, but where are we going? I know the Government has put in some effort in making secondary school education free. Now I know we have day schools that are almost free. They only charge lunch. Yes, we may have free education, but where do we leave those people? There is a saying that you better have a fool who is not educated than one who is educated. Most of the bad habits of our young people like chewing miraa, muguka and smoking are because they have become idle. As one speaker said here, some of them are graduates with first class degrees who have no jobs. This is out of their certification. You find someone with a first class degree in English, Kiswahili or Anthropology and they are not absorbed in the market. Hence they get bored. That is why it is giving rise to such habits. You go to our estates and you find very many idlers. I have been trying to speak to them. You find they are university graduates. It is a pity. I agree with Members who say we must introduce technical subjects that will empower our children. When they leave school, there will be plenty of employment opportunities. They can employ themselves. If you have a course that will help you enhance yourself in terms of employing yourself, then it is going to help you very much. It will address the issue of unemployment. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

If this Motion passes and becomes a Bill, I think we should all support it and be truthful to ourselves and make the Government ensure that every constituency has a technical training institute to absorb our youths who finish Form IV. With those few remarks, I support.

Hon. Ogutu Abel, the Member for Bomachoge Borabu, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to also contribute to this very important Motion. I will take as short time as possible. As a nation, we are saying we have already begun with 100 per cent transition from primary to secondary school. It is logical that we must also think on how we can ensure 100 per cent transition from secondary to university. However, this dream comes with a lot of challenges. One is about the capacity of our universities and colleges to absorb the students. Currently, the universities are running below their budgets. So, as a nation, we must think of how to ensure there is enough space for the students who will have transited to join universities and colleges. We also know that a number of middle level colleges all the way from the village polytechnics are ill equipped. So, we must look beyond the number of people who are going to transit to the next level. We must think as a nation on how to increase the budget for infrastructure. This is a more serious issue because we know as a nation we are already operating below par. The other thing that is crucial for this transition is about human capacity. For instance, we know the middle level colleges and the teacher training colleges, the P1 teachers who used to be trained, have been phased out. We are now moving towards diploma teachers colleges. Are we, as a nation, prepared? Do we have enough human resources to be able to run the diploma course for the teacher training colleges? It is a question of trying to put ourselves in a position as a nation, so that we do not have to deal with a crisis when the students who have joined secondary schools want to join university. We must also think about our policy of funding education. We know we have very many options for funding education, but none of those options are adequate enough to support a single child. Beginning from HELB coming all the way to the bursaries at the constituency and the county level, we must think about how we expand the funding or what do we do at the university to ensure that students are not going to be denied access because they do not have funds? This Motion prepares us to begin rolling our heads on how best we can ensure that those students who desire to go to university and also to middle level colleges are not disappointed because, as a House, we have not provided proper legislation. We must think about expansion and how they transition. It can also be translated as within the chain in terms of recruiting those people as they finish colleges so that we can create more demand for the same education, but also a market for those who proceed beyond university. We have very many Kenyans who are disappointed because they do not have the opportunity to join university and other colleges. I am sure we are going to think about policies that reduce dropouts and students refusing to take certain courses and, therefore, opt not to proceed. I thank the Mover of this Motion. It is the right direction to prepare this nation not to be caught unawares when the numbers from Form IV, which now stand at 89 per cent, transit to university. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Ogutu, I have seen you have lived to what you were professing that Members should take as little time as possible. That is good of you. We shall now have the Member for Karachuonyo, Hon. Okuome Adipo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to comment on this very important Motion. I will start with the primary level of education. We have challenges in primary schools. I will give my constituency of Karachuonyo as an example. I have inherited very many condemned schools which are in a pathetic condition. Sometimes, people think that the current MP is not active to ensure that those schools reach that level. I will start by saying that the inspectors of schools should do their work properly and if they see a school which does not meet the standards, they should take action at the appropriate time. If this was being done, perhaps, I would not be mourning over the condemned schools which are very many in my area. I only hope that the Government will not go to Karachuonyo to say that it is closing the schools because I am blaming them for sleeping on their job. I applaud the 100 per cent transition principle from primary to secondary school. However, there is a real challenge. We have admitted very many children in secondary schools when facilities are not there. Classrooms are non-existent for them and yet their number is far beyond what was before their arrival. Those are the challenges that we face in both primary and secondary schools. Coming to transition from secondary school to colleges, the technical training colleges are a welcome proposal. In fact, they are one of the best. Somebody who has gone to a technical school comes out with a skill which is ripe for operation and that he or she can use immediately. He does not look for jobs like his colleagues who went for courses or degrees which are more on the theoretical side. If he does carpentry, plumbing, electrical or masonry, he can look for employment. If he does not get any, he will be an employer. He will start his own business. If he starts a business, he will not be the only person in that business. He will need people to assist him. He now becomes a job provider instead of what he ought to have been - a job seeker. This is one very persuasive reason that I use even my own NGCDF to convince the young people to go for technical training in technical institutions. I have received excellent responses. They see the value of that a lot more although the syndrome of university degrees still lingers in their heads. We need to strongly persuade them to know that technical people are handier for jobs than those who have gone to university. I am not saying by any means that students should not go for university courses. I am making a comparison so that I can persuade young people in Kenya to ensure that they go for what can help them immediately. Some of them come from very poor families. They are looked upon by their parents or guardians as the saviors of the homes they come from because poverty rules in their homes. If they want to get out of the muddy area of poverty, they must go for what can give them what they need quickly. I also realise that in formal education, if you get your degree in say History, you cannot start your own firm. Even if you were to try, certainly, you will not go anywhere with it. I emphasise this and say that I totally support this Motion knowing that it is in the right direction for our beloved country.

Let us have Hon. Mabongah, the Member for Bumula.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. This The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Motion is important and timely. In the interest of time because there is a lot of interest in this, I will try as much as I can to summarise what I have. In this era of unemployment, this is one of the best solutions we can provide for society today. You will agree with me that everyone in the universe has talents. Most talents are destroyed at the development stage for young people. This stage is when a person is just transiting from high school to college. The percentage of KCSE candidates who finish high school and join university is below 20. If you ask the Government today - through the Ministry - to give you the statistics of where the remaining masses go, they cannot account for them. This could be the best of it all. I was just trying to make a comparison with Finland. The technical approach of skills is done right from kindergarten all the way to university. It is very easy for students and young people to pick what they want at a very early stage. We hope the Government will implement this Motion. We urge Hon. Munene to bring it as a Bill so that we can enforce this. Most of the risks in the business world today are because of the masses that are wasted after Form IV. If you go to the village today, you can count the people who are in college. There are many risks for the majority of Form IV leavers who do not qualify to go to university or technical colleges. As the Member said, I can assure you that technical courses make a person more productive. I have taken a few boys to technical colleges. Those are people who have been looking for jobs at my place every day. You realise that within a couple of years or even one year, a person becomes an employer. We request the county government to get seriously involved in vocational training. I am yet to hear a serious county government which has come up with a model vocational training which can supplement the technical courses we have. If the county government could be serious with even one vocational training centre in each county, those young boys and girls who are loitering in the village could be somewhere doing something. Whenever you interact with young people, you are shocked to realise that most of them are strangers to their own lives. This is a very important Motion that will enable young people to restore hope in their lives. We should work on this to ensure that a wide range of course are offered in some of those technical or vocational training. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you happen to come from the region I come from. You will be surprised to know that every day, young people are lining up in your home to ask for assistance. At times, they ask for financial assistance. If those courses can be introduced in vocational training, all the young people below 30 years would be absorbed and be very effective in the society. The Kshs30,000 supplementary scholarships that the Government is giving to the technical students who are joining is not enough. This House should come up with a way of getting bursaries for those young people so that the 100 per cent from high school to vocational training or other colleges is not just like the one from primary to secondary school. It is not a matter of quantity. We want to look at the quality. I urge the county governments to seriously engage the National Youth Service (NYS) which has a lot of equipment that is just being wasted. If you pass through Turbo, you will realise that most of the equipment is just lying there. Is there a way through this Motion? The MP should come up with proposals to ensure that most of that equipment is used to ensure that our young people are equipped and become productive in the society. In the interest of time and a lot of interest in this Motion, I appreciate you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this important Motion. I support the Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Hon. Martin Owino, the Member for Ndhiwa, you have the Floor.

(Ndhiwa, ODM

The Member for Konoin, Hon. Brighton, you have the Floor.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am in support of the Motion by Hon. John Wambugu on 100 per cent transition from secondary school education to tertiary education. In the Kenya Certificate of Secondary The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.

Education (KCSE) 2018, the students who scored C+ (Plus) and above were 90,377. That is around 13 per cent of the total population of the students who sat for the examination. Where did the 87 per cent who did not get entry into university go to? This is the fundamental question that we should ask ourselves. It is now imperative to note that failure to join university does not guarantee that one will be a failure in life. Therefore, examinations should not be an end in itself, but a mark to guide what one should pursue next depending on their abilities. Malcolm Forbes once said that the purpose of education is to replace an empty mind with an open mind. One of the most fundamental things about education is that it allows one to have an open mind. With education, social issues become clearer. Encouraging students who fail to join university to join technical institutes, polytechnics and colleges is actually encouraging a generation with skilled labour that can be utilised by communities for prosperity in future. So, the 100 per cent transition from secondary schools to tertiary education is a plausible initiative. It should be supported 100 per cent by the Government in terms of infrastructure support, capitation, bursaries, tutors, and human resource. The Motion, therefore, is timely and the Mover should develop it into a Bill so that it benefits many in posterity.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Gideon Keter, you have the Floor.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I thank Hon. Brighton for being very brief.

I would like to support this Motion because, personally, I am a victim of a system whereby, as you finish high school, some principals hold back your KCSE certificate for various reasons like failure to complete the payment of school fees. They deny you an opportunity to venture into other areas. They deny you the certificate to pursue other things.

In supporting this Motion, I suggest we need to put in place regulations which will compel such principals of schools to provide students with their certificates, or provide a letter of affirmation that a student, indeed, studied in their school. They can then forward such a letter to the next institution, for example, a tertiary institution. As a representative of young people, each day I receive complaints and requests from young people that their certificates are held back by certain institutions simply because they have not completed the payment of school fees. We should also provide a regulation that will ensure quality education and quality infrastructure in those institutions so that, when we are training those young men, they should feel that they are pursuing a course that will benefit them in the society. There are many courses that have already been introduced in universities and that are not beneficial to the young people. The courses are said not to fit the job market. To cure that problem, we need to incorporate the private sector when we are redesigning the curriculum of those tertiary institutions so that industries can directly employ the youth who graduate from those institutions.

Hon. Keter, unfortunately, I will have to interrupt you. It is 1.00 p.m. and you still have seven minutes. If you desire to use up those seven minutes, you will use them up when this Motion is next set down for consideration by the House. The entire Motion still has a balance of one hour and 14 minutes. You will have your balance of seven minutes. There has been a lot of interest in this. Thank you, Hon. Members, for the good debate that we have had this morning.

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Hon. Members, the time being 1.00 p.m., this House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 1.00 p.m.

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