Hon. Senators, let us start by determining if we have a quorum. It seems we do not have a quorum. I order that the Division Bell be rung for eight minutes.

Order, hon. Senators! The Division Bell has been rang for ten minutes. At my discretion, I will allow it to be rung for another five minutes, because we have business to do. If we do not get a quorum, then we shall adjourn until the afternoon sitting. Ring the Bell!

Hon. Senators, I am advised that we now have a quorum. Let us proceed with today’s business.

Hon. Senators, I notice from the record that Sen. Sang had a balance of time to conclude his contribution. After he concludes, Sen. Wako can then make his contribution.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order on the basis that a question has arisen in the National Assembly on whether the Division of Revenue Bill is properly before the House. It is important, before proceeding with debate, for the Chair to make a determination whether this Bill is properly before the House. Otherwise it may be an exercise in futility for us to go on with the debate when the legitimacy of the debate is in question. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware that there were some informal discussions between the leaderships of the House. But that was generally on the creation of an enabling environment for purposes of effective business between the two Houses. Probably, a statement was forthcoming in that regard. But purely on the basis of this Bill that is before the House, and on the strength of the fact it was formally referred to the Senate by the National Assembly, a question has arisen which we cannot proceed without taking judicial notice of the proceedings in the National Assembly. I urge the Chair to make a determination as to whether or not debate should proceed or we should proceed on the basis that you will make a ruling at some point. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the other hand, if you feel that a few hon. Senators should ventilate on the constitutionality or otherwise of this process, before you make a determination, some of us are quite ready to proceed in that regard. I notice that both the leadership is now in the House.

Hon. Senators, I want to thank Sen. Orengo for raising that important point of order. It is common knowledge that the Lower House dealt with this issue last evening. Some of the hon. Members felt that we should not be handling this Bill. For record purposes, I would like to hear ventilations from a few of you. As you are all aware, as per the Constitution and the Standing Orders of both the Lower and Upper houses, we received a Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly dated 14th March, 2013. Pursuant to the relevant Standing Order of the National Assembly, the Message clearly said:- The Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 “Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.142 of the National Assembly, I hereby convey the following Message from the National Assembly:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, the remarks that came from the Lower House yesterday were extremely unfortunate, uncalled for and which can put this country on a wrong direction at a time when Kenyans were beginning to feel that we have replenished our country. The issue of the Bill before this House has been done in accordance with the laws of our country and in particular the Constitution. I do not think this House is interested in exercising powers it does not have. We are a House that believes in the rule of law, which is humble enough to appreciate that we want to do what the law allows us to do. We are also humble enough to also realize that there are other players who have equally important roles to play in our country. The Lower House misses the point. I am afraid this only aggravates the already worsening public image of the National Assembly. Just the other day they were grappling with livestock in their precincts. While the issue they were raising was constitutional, the method they used was wrong. I am afraid that even on this issue, they are wrong because we, as hon. Senators, may also have issues of salaries, but we have chosen to follow the law and use the constitutional pathway of agitating for this. That is why we have the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Bill is properly before the House. On our part, from the Majority side and I hope and believe I have the support of the Minority side, the Senate of the Republic of Kenya will not accept to be intimidated by the National Assembly. We will also not accept to be belittled by the National Assembly or any other person. Secondly and my last point, because I want to allow other hon. Senators to contribute, is that we respect the National Assembly because they are an important part of our constitutional dispensation and architecture. This is the same way we respect the county assemblies. This debate on seniority is uncalled for; it is not what Kenyans are expecting from us. It is childish and should be stopped. Let us start building our country. I do not think the Senate is interested in perpetuating this debate. But we want to make it loud and clear that we will not entertain childish remarks from the rest of the leadership of this country. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senate Minority Leader!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to be enjoined in the outrage that should be visited from what I heard going on in the Lower House last evening. In law, we always say you are better off focusing on substance rather than form. The Lower House is engaged in focusing on form and avoidance of substance. Any attempt to belittle the status, legitimacy and existence of the Upper House, also known as the Senate, is an affront to the very fundamental principle of devolution. The remarks and debate that went on in the Lower House can at the very best be described as totally unhelpful. I even heard one excited hon. Member of the Lower House pronouncing that they can scrap the Senate. These are the same hon. Members who swore in Kiswahili: “ Kutetea, kulinda na kuhifadhi Katiba.” This is very unfortunate. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, even at the basic levels of legal tenets - the “principle of Estoppel” - before you even look at the Constitution and other material, the Bill did not fly here, it was forwarded in writing by the Speaker of the Lower House. He is consequently, in law, “estopped” from making any different finding on the same issue. He did not forward the Bill to this Upper House on the basis of magnanimity; he forwarded the Bill on the basis of a constitutional grounding. Indeed, if you look at Article 218 of the Constitution, it talks of the Revenue Allocation Bill being introduced in Parliament. It does not talk of the Lower House. Parliament means and includes both the Upper and Lower Houses. The diversionary engagement that we see going on in the Lower House is, indeed, unfortunate. I want to urge my colleagues that we remain seized with the focus we have established, the dignity and respect we have earned and the admiration we are commanding from the people of this country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, again, one excited hon. Member of the Lower House referred to this House as a House of retirees.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, look at this House, is that distinguished young lady hon. Senator a retiree?

Beautiful!

Is my learned junior here a retiree? Are the distinguished hon. Senators for Nandi, Nairobi and Bomet counties retirees? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, are you a retiree? This is the height of insolent and indolent behavior by colleagues who should know better. Our colleagues in the Lower House should even see that the distinguished hon. Senator for Kakamega County has a jurisdiction over 12 of them. The distinguished hon. Senator for Machakos County has jurisdiction over eight of them. The distinguished hon. Senator for Nairobi County has a jurisdiction over 17 of them. The distinguished hon. Senator for Bugoma County, yours truly, has jurisdiction over nine of them. We can count on and on. Even at the basics of elementary logic, where is the Upper House? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, if you refer to Standing Order No.88(4) and (5), although I am not saying any of you has breached the Standing Orders, it says:- “(4) No Senator shall impute improper motive to any other Senator or to a Member of the National Assembly except upon a specific substantive Motion of which at least three days’ notice has been given, calling in question the conduct of that Senator or Member of the Assembly. (5) It shall be out of order for a Senator to criticize or call to question, the proceedings in the National Assembly, a County Assembly or the Speaker’s ruling in the National Assembly but any debate may be allowed on the structures and roles of County Assemblies or the National Assembly.” I know that no ruling has been made in the National Assembly as yet although we understand that one may be made at 2.30 p.m. So, there is nothing illegal or out of order in what we are discussing. Having said that, I would like to bring this issue to a close for two reasons. One, this ruling must be made because the Bill is still being debated. In my ruling on this issue, I wish to refer you to Standing Orders No.158 (3) which says:- “The Senate shall proceed upon and conclude its consideration of a Division of Revenue Bill not later than ten days after the Bill has been introduced with a view to approving it, with or without amendments.” Hon. Senators, I also referred to the Message that was sent to us by the Speaker of the National Assembly dated 14th May, 2013. It clearly states that he seeks the concurrence of the Senate. In my humble submission, the concurrence requires that we consider the Bill as passed by the National Assembly, go through it and even go to the Committee Stage, which we propose to do this afternoon. It is then that Article 112(1) of the Constitution shall come into play. It says:- “

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Mbuvi?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. With all due respect, I take note of what you have just ordered. However, there are a few remarks I would like to make. The Constitution is very clear. Article 96 explains our role. If it is a battle of supremacy, we are the Upper House. We represent and protect counties and their governments at the national level while our brothers and sisters at the National Assembly have a responsibility of representing constituencies. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want you to put yourself in our shoes, between a village elder and a chief or between a village elder and a District Officer (DO), who is senior? Again, we have the oversight and impeachment responsibilities over the President, his Deputy and all the Governors while our brothers and sisters at the National Assembly do not have this responsibility. Who is senior? Which is the Upper House? Again, we have the responsibility of debating and approving all the county bills before they become law. Who is senior in this case? We also determine and discuss revenue allocations as per the counties. Which is the Upper House in reference to this? Why should we be addressed in a disrespectful manner? We are national leaders and respect our colleagues in the Lower House. I refer to the National Assembly as the Lower House---

Indeed, it is!

We campaigned and ensured the promulgation of a new Constitution. We deserve to be respected as national leaders. The National Assembly Standing Orders do not allow them to address us in a disrespectful manner. They were not supposed to use abusive terms. We have young, beautiful ladies here, who are wives to prominent people in this Republic.

Order, Senator Sonko! Please, take your seat!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am about to finish!

Order, Sen. Sonko! Please, stick to the issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think that today I have known why the civil society was referring to these hon. Members as pigs.

Order, Sen. Sonko! Order, Members! We are the Upper House. We understand the Constitution and the reason we are here, and I made a ruling on this issue. I think that the important thing is for us not to engage. Let us not go beyond what we should. Let us not transgress our own Standing Orders. I The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am going to take less than the available 25 minutes, because I guess that all of us in this House would want to ventilate on this issue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I mentioned yesterday, I support this Motion. Our constitutional responsibility as the Senate is to protect and serve the interests of the counties. This Bill provides us with an opportunity to execute our constitutional mandate of protecting the interest of counties. You cannot protect the interests of counties if you cannot allocate adequate resources to these counties. It does not make any sense for somebody to imagine that a whole Senate – our responsibility being to protect interest of counties – would only concentrate on dividing and sharing the revenue that the Lower House has made a determination on. What if, for example, the Lower House decides in its wisdom or lack of it, that we only have Kshs100 billion to share amongst our counties? It does not make sense. We cannot concentrate on just the sharing formula among counties without having a say in the amount of national Revenue that will come down to the county governments. The Division of Revenue Bill gives us that opportunity. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the success of the new Constitution will entirely depend on the success of devolution. If we are not going to have our counties taking shape and succeeding in providing services to our Kenyans, then we will have failed in our new constitutional dispensation. I want to propose that this House carefully considers the Division of Revenue Bill for two reasons; one, as a way of asserting our authority as the Senate in terms of protecting the interests of our counties. But more importantly, arising from yesterday’s debate in the Lower House, in terms of asserting our authority as the Upper House, so that we should not be seen as a rubberstamp of what the Lower House has given us. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the Fourth Schedule of the new Constitution, it has in part “1” enumerated the 35 functions allocated to the national Government. In part “2”, it has given the 14 functions allocated to the county governments. If we take agriculture, for example, the Constitution under the Fourth Schedule indicates that agricultural policy will be handled by the national Government. But the actual implementation of agricultural policies will be done by the county governments. This would translate to almost 20 per cent of the Ministry of Agriculture currently being retained at the national level and 80 per cent being taken back to the county governments. It only means then that about 80 per cent of the resources previously allocated to the Ministry of Agriculture need to be devolved to the county governments. The same thing applies to the Ministry of Health. We have only two referral hospitals in this country, and I support our colleague, Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, for bringing a Bill that would then be able to broadly define what referral health facilities in this country are. This will enable us to have at least one or two referral hospitals in each of the 47 counties in this country. I come from Nandi County where we have one district The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, there is a short communication from the Chair before we proceed. Immediately after the rise of the House, the Speaker has called for a meeting of all Senators here in this Chamber, that is, a Kamukunji to discuss issues that affect us. That communication requires that all of you should make yourselves available immediately after the rise of the House. Sen.Orengo!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Senator Wako!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when the Motion came up before Sen. Orengo raised his point of order, you said that after Sen. Sang, it will be Sen. Wako.

Did I?

I am just reminding you of that.

But now I have said, Sen. Orengo. Forgive me, I will call you next. I will make amends.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are supposed to be having a joint meeting with the Finance and Devolution Committee---

Sorry, what is it now? You do not just rise on a point of order and start talking. You have to be allowed by the Chair. What is the point of order?

You have said that the Speaker has called a meeting at 12.30 p.m. and at the same time we are supposed to have a Committee meeting between the Finance and Devolution Committee.

The Speaker has called for a meeting at 12.30 p.m., and I was just making a Communication from the Chair. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very important business before the House and it concerns the key function of the counties and the Senate in many respects. I want to alert the Senate about the politics that may come later. These are the politics of responsibility and accountability on issues to do with development. When you look at the distribution of functions as contained in the schedule to the Constitution, it is going to be very easy for the national government or anybody who is prepared to derail the county governments to begin to play around with the politics of development in respect of what is contained in the second part of the functions allocated to the counties. Listening to some of the speeches I have heard while touring some of the counties, including my county, when it comes to roads, statements are being made that there is a new structure and a new schedule of responsibility that in future you are not going to ask the national government about roads. If you have any road in the county that needs repair or construction, you ask the county government and the relevant section of the Constitution is quoted. There is a provision that relates to county roads but which has not been defined. Agriculture and health services are also mentioned. I can see Sen. Wako walking out but I wanted to bring to his attention this issue because this is something that relates to his Committee, the Legal Committee and the Devolution Committee. They should very quickly come up with legislation that is anticipated or envisaged by Article 186. That article spells out the functions that are allocated or powers that are distributed to the national or county government. This article was for purposes to do with the fact that even the Committee of Experts and the various organs involved in the constitution making process came to a conclusion that it is not going to be possible in a Constitution to properly distribute these functions with a degree of certainty. So, in page `120 of the Constitution, sub-article 4 of Article 186 says:- “For greater certainty, Parliament may legislate for the Republic on any matter.” This is certainty to do with the distribution of functions and powers. If you look at the distribution and functions of powers according to Article 186, there is a large area of this protocol of distribution of functions and powers that one may very well say that some of these functions are conferred on both levels of the Government. I think this may create a lot of confusion, even on the question of costing. You cannot do costing properly until you have defined these powers, that is, distribution of functions. So, I urge the two committees and particularly the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights to come up with legislation which may help us define some of these functions and roles of the various levels of Government with a greater degree of certainty. Then it is going to be possible to come up with a better costing. I have heard many Senators talking about the issue of costing that it has not been done on a basis that reflects the real and objective situation on the ground. The other fact which is important to bring into consideration is that the power of raising revenue and powers that relate to public debt contained in Article 209, give the national government the exclusive power of imposing taxation and the various categories of taxation as mentioned including Income Tax, Value Added Tax, Custom, Excise Duties and property rates. So, the responsibility of counties in areas of taxation that is contemplated, for example, if you talk to any of the previous local authorities, the collection of property rates is not only difficult but they do not amount to much. Entertainment tax, again, going by the experiences of the local authorities cannot raise The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Orengo, you are very right because you referred to Article 110(4) and (5) of the Constitution; it is quite clear that both Houses have to pass the Bill before it becomes law.

In fact, I had marked that section, but I thought it will be repetition- --

Sen. Orengo, can you, please, refer to Article 110(4) and (5)?

In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you could allow me to begin from the beginning, I think it is better to look at Article 109 first before you look at Article 110. Article 109 says:- “(1) Parliament shall exercise its legislative power through Bills passed by Parliament and assented to by the President.” It is important to emphasize the word “Parliament.” “(2) Any Bill may originate in the National Assembly.” And (3), which is the important one states:- (3) A Bill not concerning county government is considered only in the National Assembly, and passed in accordance with Article 122 and the Standing Orders of the Assembly. “(4) A Bill concerning county government may originate in the National Assembly or the Senate, and is passed in accordance with Articles 110 to 113, Articles 122 and 123 and the Standing Orders of the Houses. The division of revenue between the national Government and the county governments is a Bill that affects the counties and there is no way that anybody can convince me that this Bill does not concern the counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Wako, it is now your turn without trying.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Senate is the Upper House, and proof of that, I think, is in Sen. Mbuvi. I was in the 10th Parliament when Sen. Mbuvi was elected a Member of Parliament; the manner of his dressing and the way he used to come to the House reflected that House – I know where he has gone!

But since he came to the Senate, he is now wearing designer suits more than anyone of us.

He is taking leadership very, very seriously, and that is nice. Also, the hair is well done, and so on. So, the change in the behavior of Sen. Mbuvi is in itself enough evidence that we are the Upper House, and even Sen. Mbuvi recognizes that fact.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

It is with a light touch---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Senator in order to discuss Sen. Mbuvi---

I am not imputing improper motives--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Maybe as a matter of interest, Sen. (Dr.) Machage, you could refer me to the Standing Order you are referring to; maybe I could make a decision on that?

Let him go on! `

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you were right this morning in your ruling that this Bill is properly before this House, and I do not have to quote the sections that have been quoted. I defend the right of the Member of Parliament who sought the ruling of the Speaker in the National Assembly on whether or not this Bill is properly before us; he had that right. But in the exercise of that right, unfortunately in the debate concerning that issue, they went overboard. But I would like this House to show – because we are here to show that we are the Upper House – by conducting our debate here with decorum, sticking to the issues, not being abusive or anything of what went on yesterday in Parliament. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I believe that hon. Member read Section 96(3) of the Constitution a bit too narrowly. Section 96(3) reads as follows. “The Senate determines the allocation of national revenue among counties, as provided in Article 217, and exercises oversight over national revenue allocated to the county governments.” So, he read that to show that we do not have the responsibility to decide the issue of division of revenue between the national Government and the county governments but, as usual, little knowledge can be quite dangerous.

If you take one small section somewhere and exaggerate it without taking into account the overall Constitution, you definitely come to a very absurd conclusion. This is because this Constitution demands that it be interpreted in a manner in which the purposes, values and principles of the Constitution are promoted. It should be interpreted in a manner which takes into account all the other sections of the Constitution. If you take into account all other sections of the Constitution, including our legislative power, which is in Article 96(2), we participate by enacting legislation in respect of the counties. And then you go to Article 109, which the Senator for Siaya has referred to, and which states that we are concerned with Bills which touch on counties. There is no other Bill that touches on counties which is more important to me than the Division of Revenue Bill. Why? Because unless you have a proper division of revenue between the national Government and county governments; if they allocate an amount which is too small and we are only left to divide that small amount, it will be affecting the functions of the counties. Therefore, we have a big interest to ensure that the county governments are allocated enough money to perform their functions in accordance with the Fourth Schedule. Those functions are many; apart from the big national issues such as national security, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senator Karaba!

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to contribute to the Bill in front of us. As I support, from the outset, let me take some time to digress to what might have prompted the Lower House to discuss us last evening. Possibly, this was because of this Bill vis-a-vis who should contribute to it. In the first place, it appears as if majority of the people in the Lower House are competing with Senators. We concluded elections on March 4th and they could not beat the Senators. They are aware that the number of votes we got is, certainly, higher than what they got. Indeed, if you look at Kirinyaga, you will see that I was convincingly voted for by over 220,000 people whereas any other Member of Parliament had less than 20,000 or even 30,000. That could be the reason why they are wondering what we are doing here. They know how they got into the National Assembly. The other issue is that as we sit here and talk, we need to define the laws which are spelt out in the Constitution and see how we can assert ourselves in the counties against a majority of doubting Thomases that we have the power. True to that, if you go to the counties, you will see that governors are treating Senators like second class citizens. That is what they think. They have that notion since they govern the counties. Recently, they employed executive officers. They have county representatives under them. They are supposed to manage billions of shillings that we will endorse here. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I think there has been a ruling on this matter with regard to Governors and Members of the Lower House. Is Sen. Karaba in order to dwell on an aspect that has already been ruled on?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I withdraw that and continue. What we have in front of us is a budget which we are supposed to scrutinize. That is what we are doing and we have the mandate to do so. As I stand here, I have a feeling that we, as Senators, need to be seen as having the power to endorse, discuss and dispose of this Bill as we pass it with or without amendments.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Should the hon. Senator continue misleading Kenyans by saying that we should be seen to have power when we have the power? Could he be advised to stop taking that line because he is misleading the country?

Sen. Karaba, you have been advised and you know that is the position. We have power and we are the Upper House.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The position is that we have power under the Constitution. That is the power we will exercise here. One thing we need to think about here is how the Kshs190 billion was arrived at as per the schedule and the retention of Kshs20 billion at the national government to finance national issues. You reckon that most responsibilities and functions at the counties are almost similar to those of the national government. Therefore, it is needless to discuss the functions that county governments will continue with as opposed to the central government. We need to equate and see that the functions of the national government are almost equal to those of the county assemblies. In that case, we need to raise the amount allocated to the county assemblies so that we can disseminate what is important in the county assemblies. You will note that the amount that is reserved in the national kitty, Kshs20 billion, cannot employ, promote or recruit teachers. If the national government will employ more than 60,000 teachers that we have in the counties, the Kshs20 billion which has been set aside cannot even be enough for this. We need to think about the looming strike which will be mooted by teachers once this budget is passed. The teachers argue that the allowances which they were promised, right from 1997, have not been met. They are asking the national government to take it upon themselves and make sure that their allowances and promotions are released. I can see that this money is not enough. I am requesting an increase of money so that we can cater for teachers who are yet to be paid their allowances at a time when this will be necessary. I also take note that most of the county assembly agricultural practices are geared towards production and the export of semi-processed goods and raw materials. We are yet to see agricultural products coming from such counties being processed. It is only when we export these items that these counties will get more money for their The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. First, this is a good day for us, as a Senate, that we are discussing distribution or division of revenue between the national Government and the county governments. There was a first Senate that would have done this job because I think it was set out even better in that Constitution. But instead of debating the Division of Revenue, so that regions would get that revenue, they dissolved themselves popularly. It was the first elected body to dissolve popularly. One of the then Senators came from Mbita Constituency. This is my constituency. He was the Senator for South Nyanza who was, of course, thanked with a seat after dividing the then Lambwe Constituency. That is how Mbita Constituency was created. Senators were bribed to dissolve themselves popularly. I hope we will not do such a mistake. I am not about to dissolve myself. If they did what they were supposed to do 50 years ago, Kenya would not be the same again. We would have developed some of these institutions and infrastructure. I believe the country would be in a better place than it is in today. It would not have been the most unequal society that we are in the world today. We, as a country, will have to work very hard to deal with this tag of “the most unequal society in the world” after South Africa and Brazil. Madam Temporary Speaker, I was listening to the Members of the National Assembly, the Lower House, yesterday evening speaking and pitied them, because you cannot win in such a debate. If somebody says “I am the greatest” and another one also The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Kajwang, do you wish to be informed?

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Murkomen is a good man.

Madam Temporary Speaker, before my friend, hon. Kajwang, departs from that point, particularly the role of this House in discussing the Division of Revenue Bill, I wanted just to inform him and the House at large, that, first of all, there is confusion. I noticed that there was confusion in the Lower House when they were talking about Parliament. When they read the Constitution, where it is written “Parliament” they think that Parliament is the National Assembly. There is a challenge in dealing with that House because there are so many Members. They miss the ambience, soberness and brotherhood and sisterhood of this House. We have had the chance to bond and that bonding was not just social bonding, but bonding using the Constitution. That is why we are more intimate with this Constitution than them. If you read Article 205(1) it says: “(1) When a Bill that includes provisions dealing with the sharing of revenue, or any financial matter concerning county governments is published, the Commission on Revenue Allocation shall consider those provisions and may make recommendations to the National Assembly and the Senate.” Madam Temporary Speaker, it does not say “to the National Assembly or the Senate.” This means that if anything is concerning resources or money touching on the county, it has to go to two Houses. If you read Article 218(1) which the previous speakers, especially the Senator for Siaya had read, it says:- “(1) At least two months before the end of each financial year, there shall be introduced in Parliament–– ( a ) a Division of Revenue Bill, which shall divide revenue raised by the national government among the national and county levels of government in accordance with this Constitution; and ( b ) a County Allocation of Revenue Bill, which shall divide among the counties the revenue allocated to the county level of government on the basis determined in accordance with the resolution in force under Article 217. Madam Temporary Speaker, “in Parliament” means both Houses. Article 111 talks of Special Bills Concerning Counties. Article 114(1) says:- “(1) A money Bill may not deal with any matter other than those listed in the definition of “a money Bill” in clause (3). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

The point of information was very long. Proceed, Sen. Kajwang!

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was very generous to my brother. He actually touched on the issues which I wanted to touch on. So, I will not belabour them. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is the point of order?

Sen. Murkomen!

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for my friend, Sen. Kajwang, to combine kissing and fish?

Sen. Kajwang, you are out of order! Proceed, Sen. Kajwang.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not quite out of order. You know Sen. Murkomen has never seen a fish. He does not know what the fish do. I am a fisherman and I know where our fish breed. After breeding, they move into the deeper waters. Of course, they do breed and you know what that means. They have to kiss.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there is another tragedy we have in the lake. That is the water hyacinth. You cannot leave that menace to Homa Bay County, Kisumu County, Siaya County or Migori County. It is a national disaster that must be dealt with. We know The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Thank you, my brother, you can inform me.

Do you wish to be informed?

Yes. I agree.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to inform the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay County who is my learned Senior that the role and function of the protection of the environment and natural resources with a view to establishing a durable and sustainable system of development, including and in particular fishing, is a national responsibility. Our brothers and sisters in the Lower House should be pre-occupied with this and not bastardizing the Senate.

Thank you very much, brother. Maybe you could have reminded the Members of Parliament from the lake belt to be very serious about these things rather than talking carelessly. I am not very happy about one thing in the national government; that is, the creating of a Ministry for Devolution and Planning. This was a mistake because devolution is spelt in the Constitution. It is clear that we have two levels of government. It is clear how they relate. This House disburses the money. I would approve the money that goes to the county governments. They do not require nor do they need to be supervised. It is not provided for that they should be supervised by anybody. I wonder what the Cabinet Secretary for Devolution and Planning will do. Is she going to supervise and with what powers? Is she going to provide on who gets which money, especially this one which we call conditional funds or what is it that she is going to do? Is it the importation of the Minister for Local Government again to control and to throttle, if possible, the growth and development of our county governments? I hope the President will look at it again so that he could give the Minister some other job to do rather than the job of devolution because there is no work to do there. Thank you and I support.

Hon. Senators, I think the debate is of great national importance and interest. All our counties are eagerly waiting to see what their Senators have to say or to contribute. If we go by what is happening now, that every speaker is given 30 minutes, then we will only have two Senators speak. I, therefore, wish to request the House to resolve that we reduce the contribution time to ten minutes, so that we can have as many Senators as possible making contributions because we are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. Wetangula)

Sen. Murungi, you have ten minutes.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to speak very fast. First, we should not waste time discussing the status of this Upper House. That is obvious. It is like asking whether water is wet. Even lions do not go around saying they are lions. It is other people who see them and know they are lions. Everybody in Kenya knows who we are. The Bill before us is about equitable division of revenue between the national government and the county governments. The operative word is “equitable.” This Bill does not provide for equitable division of revenue between the national and the county governments. It provides for inequitable distribution of revenue between the national and the county governments. The criterion to be considered is set out in Article 203 of the Constitution. That criterion has completely been ignored. The criteria spells clearly that there must be objective analysis of the functions of the national and county governments in the division of revenue. What has happened here is that Treasury itself is what is dividing this revenue. I do remember the late Martin Shikuku telling us that you should never sent hyenas to roast meat for you because they will eat it. Here, we have sent the national government to divide revenue between itself and the county governments and it has eaten the meat on the way. If you read page 309 in this small booklet of the Constitution, the division of functions---

Which Article?

Which Article, Senator, because we have different versions of the Constitution?

I am looking at page 309, the Fourth Schedule, No.31, Energy policy including electricity and gas reticulation and energy regulation. The national Government is supposed to give us the energy policy. But if you look at page 312, No.8(e), the county government is given the responsibility of county planning and development, including electricity and gas reticulation and energy regulation. The same function which is given to the national Government is also given to the county government. So, the question is; why would you give so much to the national Government and only a mere pittance to the county governments when they are performing the same functions? Madam Temporary Speaker, look at the roads; being given only Kshs28 billion when they are only doing the national roads, when all the other roads are being done by the county governments. Then, the entire budget for county governments is Kshs158 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Not now!

We are here to right this allocation.

I am saying that for us to perform our duties as set out in Article 96 of the Constitution, we have to look afresh at the reallocation. In my own view, the fair allocation should be at least a half.

A minimum of Kshs400 billion should go to the counties, and then we get to the second level of distributing between the counties. So, Madam Temporary Speaker, we have to take our role as Senators seriously as our constitutional duty. We should not be beaten by any person because ours is to deliver. Madam Temporary Speaker, I know I have very little time. The way this budget has been organized is the traditional method. Those officials are actually very busy. They look at what was provided for in the last budget and then they say we are increasing by five per cent or 15 per cent on various items. So, they use what they call the historical methods. But the time has come for us to take budget making more seriously. This House is no longer a bystander in the budget making process; we are not here to let the caravans pass. We are now, under the new Constitution. In the past, Parliament was merely a budget approving Parliament. The roles of Parliament were merely to make noise, let off steam, and allow the figures which had been set by the Executive to pass. But our role The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Senator for Wajir; Sen. Abdirahman.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also stand to support this Motion. I want to give a number of comments. I sat through yesterday afternoon and part of this morning listening to a number of hon. Senators contributing to this Motion. Following the footsteps of the very able Sen. Murungi and the manner in which he spoke, we really need to put things right the way they were and in their order. Yesterday, I listened to a Senator who said the Jubilee Government is generous. Personally, I will not say that this is generosity. Our counties deserve more than what has been indicated and provided here because I have a bone to pick with a number of areas. One of them is on the costing of functions. All over the country, there has been inequity in terms of development. This is mainly because policy makers and planners never understood this country. At one time I said that the national Treasury, devolution and planning cannot work together effectively. They have never worked together collectively. Now allocation of devolved funds is done by the Treasury and the Commission for Revenue Allocation (CRA). As much as I trust the CRA, their costing is based on what used to happen in the past. In a broader concept, if you take development across the country in the same pattern, it will not actually be ideal. I come from a place where we have been marginalized for long. Nowadays, we do not say we are marginalized. We are only saying that in terms of policy and legislation, people have not understood us. Hon. Kajwang said the agriculture sector employs over 70 per cent of our population. I totally agree with him. I believe livestock would equally have employed another 70 per cent if we took it seriously, but we never did so. So, I am just saying that when it comes to costing, they must consider issues of pastoral development, so that we equally increase our economic abilities in this county. Of course, poverty levels have somehow been taken care of. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have a problem with what they are calling Conditional Grants. If I may look at Item 4(a), it says this Bill secures financing for ongoing development programmes. This worries us because projects that have been put in place in the past by the national Government did not adequately cover the entire country. If they continue financing projects where they spent so much money and forget about areas that have been forgotten, then what is going to happen? I think we should amend this bit and say that we should secure funding even for new projects. Why must it only be for ongoing projects? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Yes, we need them! We need condoms!

Order, Senators!

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am saying that we require more medicine than condoms. Name any medicines or drugs, be it paracetamol or any other, we need it. There is a serious shortage of drugs, but what they do is to procure from suppliers other things. They chip in some money for themselves and continue supplying these kind of things. Madam Temporary Speaker, since health now is a function of the county governments, we need to provide capacity to them to procure what they need. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have one or two more comments to make on how best we can actually link development planning and Treasury. As Sen. Murungi said we require Kshs500 billion for counties and not Kshs200 billion. Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Senator Joy.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me the chance to support this Motion. I want to start by informing the Senator for Wajir that the Jubilee Government is actually generous. If you look at Article 203(2) of the Constitution, we are supposed to be giving the county governments not less than 15 per cent of the revenue. However, the Jubilee Government has promised to give 32 per cent. We hope that this will translate into real benefits. If somebody gives you more than you are supposed to be given, is that not a generous person?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is out of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, Governments have obligations to its citizenry. The more they provide the better for the welfare of its citizens. Is Sen. Gwendo, in order to say what our right is and turn it into a privilege?

There is nothing really out of order, Sen. Gwendo; it is really just a point of argument. Proceed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. You might have a right that somebody can deny you, but this is somebody who is actually giving you that right in a huge and in generous manner. With this 32 per cent and with the Senate as a watchdog, we will be able to ensure that the county governments use it appropriately. By doing this, we will have good health facilities, good education and our people will have access to electricity and water. Secondly, Madam Temporary Speaker, I also want to talk about something that my dear uncle, the Senator for Homa Bay, talked about. According to what we have always heard, the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) is 2.5 per cent, but the Jubilee Government---

Madam Temporary Speaker, kindly protect me.

Order! Order, Senators! Consult quietly.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Jubilee Government has promised to give 2.5 per cent to the county governments towards the development of the constituencies. This 2.5 per cent is supposed to be managed at the county level. Again, this is generosity. In my opinion, if somebody gives you the 2.5 per cent that is already there as the CDF, and then there is another 2.5 per cent that will be managed by the governors from the county government aimed towards developing the constituencies then that is generosity. Of course, having the Senate as the watchdog of the same amounts, this will, again, translate to more development in the constituencies. Madam Temporary Speaker, have all the allocations that have been done by the Jubilee Government taken care of the factors that are in Article 201? They take care of our needs as Kenyans. They must fulfill the promises they made to us. This is going to translate to better life for all the Kenyans. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. G.G. Kariuki.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to say something. This Bill has been with us for almost two days because we started yesterday and I think a lot of areas have been covered by those who spoke before me. I am very sure that there are some like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who is waiting to speak and, perhaps, we may not finish all the points for him. We should not say that the Jubilee Government has been very generous and indicated that they are there to comply with the Constitution. The Government should not be generous, what it does is governed by law. The Government must observe and accept what the law says. So, generosity is out of the question, but it is a good indication, as I have said earlier, that the Jubilee Government and also the people in the opposition like Sen. Kajwang and others are just showing their total commitment to the Constitution. The amount of Kshs210 billion has been talked about over again and again and I need not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to thank the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Clerk of the National Assembly for respecting the provisions of Standing Orders of the National Assembly. Standing Order No.142 of the Lower House dictates that the Speaker and the Clerk of the National Assembly must bring this message to this House. I want to thank them and hope that the Speaker in his ruling will prevail over the Members of the National Assembly. I would like to encourage our compatriots in the Lower House to take time and read, not just the letter of the Constitution, but also attempt to understand the spirit of this particular Constitution. Very many Senators have talked to the various Articles and there is no need for me to repeat. However, I want to encourage them to read Articles 205, 209, 210, 217 and 218. Once they read those articles, even their fears that they are being demeaned will be put to rest. Article 217 provides that in the event there is a stalemate between the Upper House and the Lower House, there is provision for a joint committee of the two The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, as much as we have been advised not to make reference to the debate in the Lower House, I think I must respond to a thing or two. It was totally out of order for anybody to imagine that a Member of this Senate is in his or her retirement. For those who are here, there is no doubt, indeed, that we have just began. In fact, this is our first electoral contest and we were audacious enough to run for the office of the Senate. We made it as Senators in our respective counties. I can mention a number of Senators here who are at the prime of their careers. I think it was ill-advised for them to perpetuate a perception that we have fought, deliberately, over the last couple of months to try to dissuade. I made this remark when I was in Mombasa, that, I have had, probably, some of the best four months in public service since I started off as a Senator in this House. I think everybody here has shown some level of astuteness, character, intellect and diligence that is incumbent upon every Senator in this Republic. Just to remind them, some of them must have come from the ODM party and other parties affiliated to the CORD Coalition. When they were paying their nominations fees, it was deliberate that those who were running for the Senate position would pay Kshs250,000. Those who were running for the National Assembly posts paid Kshs100,000 because the parties were persuaded that these were lower cadre political offices. I do not see why I would pay Kshs250,000 to run for a much junior seat instead of paying Kshs100,000 for a much more senior seat.

On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Do you wish to be informed, hon. Senator?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Thank you, hon. Senator. That is a very an important observation with regard to the payment of Kshs250,000 against Kshs100,000. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) also asked Senators to pay Kshs100,000 and Members of Parliament Kshs50,000.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in legal jargon, we talk about taking judicial notice. When a fact is a fact, it is non contestable. Unless those facts change, the Senate remains the House of reference as the Upper House of this Republic. We must always interpret the Constitution both in letter and spirit. The spirit of the Constitution and the spirit of the entire Kenyan public was that when they were voting for Senators, they were voting for the Members of the Upper House. That is why people with distinguished careers like hon. Sen. Wetangula, Sen. G. G. Kariuki, Sen. Amos Wako, Sen. Haji and Sen. Murungi, among others, are here. These are Members who could have won any particular seat in their constituencies. Why did they opt to go for the Office of the Senator? To make my point before I leave, devolution did not come to prejudice any of us. Many people of Mombasa still complain about marginalisation notwithstanding the fact that we see super highways and roads in Mombasa County. The fact that there are physical structures of development in Mombasa, should not delude anybody to believe that Mombasa does not need money to commensurate the services there. I agree with the Senator for Nyeri County and the other Senators from counties which will be most severely harmed by any deficit when we start devolution on a wrong footing. Mombasa needs more than Kshs4 billion to run its transactions. For us to say that there is a formula that has been developed disenfranchises the possibility of Mombasa to meet its own obligations and starts devolution on the wrong footing. Therefore, this House must move with the kind of speed that will ensure that no county will start its transactions as a county government with deficits. We will be joining hands, in this House, to move an amendment that ensures that we secure services that are rendered by this county that have been severely disarmed on the basis of devolution vote. I believe that we need, more and more, to question all counties as we go into devolution. Mombasa is the second highest contributor to the country’s GDP. I have seen that we have been ranked 23rd in the allocation of quarters. I think devolution was not supposed to do a Robin Hood kind of strategy that you take from those who have and give those who do not have. It meant that you equalize the society so that everybody has an equal ability to compete. Finally, I think we need to continue to change the philosophies of this Government. I come from the Human Rights background. Many of you here come from different backgrounds. I made reference to Article 19(1) and (2) of the Constitution. That is on the fundamental rights and freedoms. The Constitution must not only look at the possibility of equality of counties, but the most important equality that we need to promote which is the equality of every human being who lives within the territory of Kenya. It also talks about elements of social justice which effectively mean that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators. As you are aware, the Order Paper for this afternoon is already out. That means that the Bill before the Senate must proceed to conclusion. In the afternoon, we will proceed to the Committee Stage which now makes me call upon the Mover of the Motion to reply.

How many minutes do I have, Madam Temporary Speaker?

You have ten minutes, but you are allowed to donate one or two minutes to a Senator of your choice.

Madam Temporary Speaker, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I would like to move this Bill. I would like to appreciate hon. Senators for very candid, honest and well researched positions on this Bill.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the rules of debate demand that since it was not Sen. Murkomen who moved this Bill, if he is the one officially responding to it, then he has to make that clear. Otherwise, we will assume that he is just another contributor.

I have heard Sen. Murkomen state the fact that he is responding on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I take that to have been a point of information; that instead of using the word “moving,” the hon. Senator wanted me to use the word “responding.” I am, therefore, responding on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader. Basically, I said that I appreciate the well researched positions that Senators have given. This House appreciates the effort that has been put by the Government in terms of tabling this Bill. It appreciates the work done by the CRA and the Treasury in terms of giving good foundation for us to improve on. I would like to quote Senator Kajwang. I think that when we go to the Committee stage in the afternoon, Members will come back as promised from both sides of the House, to ensure that, that good idea from the Government is improved to a better idea. Madam Temporary Speaker, a lot has been said about some discussion outside this House by our brothers in the Lower House. I think that those who were watching and listening are now well educated in the Lower House; that the term “Parliament” means both the National Assembly and the Senate. The Senate has the jurisdiction and rightly so, to debate on this matter. It is going to perform its constitutional duty to ensure that the resources that are going to the counties are adequate and that the Senate is ready and willing to serve the people of Kenya without fear, favour or intimidation. I am told that the word “Senate” was derived from the word “senior.” Now, it is even in English itself that this House is senior. But we have been magnanimous enough to avoid reminding our brothers about this seniority, because it was Wole Soyinka who said that a tiger does not need to shout all the time about its tigritude. We do not have to say this. We know it, but have been carrying ourselves so humbly, as required by Chapter Six, that we are servants of the people of Kenya. But if we need to remind them, I think that we have done it enough today. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senator, you will remember that I allowed you to donate time before contributing. So, you cannot do so at this stage.

Madam Temporary Speaker, since we are learning, you can use the powers vested in your office and allow me for purposes of today only.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am properly advised by you; that I cannot donate. But I think that I need to mention that---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker. Sen. Murkomen said that he had nothing else useful to say and then he now says that he wants to say something. I would advise him not to say anything that is not useful to this House.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am well advised and accept, except to say that in the analysis of functions in Schedule Four, Members have dwelt on this very important matter of whether a function is concurrent or exclusive. I said yesterday that the challenge that we have, something that we must expeditiously do, working together with the Treasury and Transition Authority, is unbundling these functions, so that we are able to know what exactly it means to say “financing agriculture.” As you have heard from Sen. Kajwang, when I was a young boy – and the Minority Leader whispered to me that it was also the same in Bungoma County - there used to be a person called “ Borafya” . I did not even know that it was a Kiswahili word “ Bora Afya .” The person used to come around and remind us to dig latrines and ensure that we are maintaining good standards of public health. We need to restore this kind of officers because they are the ones who made the great Senators who are here. We want them to also perform those functions at the county level to ensure that the future generation is getting good health and that we have good agriculture and housing at the local level. Let me pause and ask a rhetorical question. If you give counties that have slums Kshs5 billion or Kshs7 billion and the Constitution says that housing is a function of county governments, does it take Kshs5 billion to remove slums in Kibera, Mombasa, Eldoret or Kisumu? I think that it takes more resources and that is why it is important that when we come back to this question of unbundling an analysis of functions, it has to be very clear that the counties are actually performing functions under Article 43; what will be called socioeconomic rights. Therefore, in achieving that important right, which is recognized internationally, it is important that the necessary resources are given to the counties to ensure that they perform their constitutional duties and this country has equity, so that we avoid what the Senator for Mombasa told us; that we do not want also The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, with a lot of constraints, I now want to state that we have come to the end of the deliberations. Although we would have liked to interrogate this matter further, time is of essence. We have to move on to the next stage in the afternoon. Before I put the Question, you are aware that the matter before the Senate is a Motion that affects counties and shall require the support of a majority of delegations. Therefore, I now direct that the Division Bell be rung for eight minutes. Meanwhile, can we have the two Whips give us the proposed names of the two tellers?

Hon. Senators, I now direct that the doors to the Chambers be locked. Tellers are as follows:- Sen. Kanainza for the Nays and Sen. Sijeny for the Ayes. I direct that the two tellers take their seats on either side of the table. I now direct the Clerk to call out the names of the Senators in alphabetical order.

Order, Senators! Order!

Sen. Sijeny.

Sen. Kanainza The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results as follows.

Hon. Senators that completes the business of the House this morning. The Senate is adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m. The Senate adjourned at 12.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.