Order, Hon. Senators! Could we confirm if we have a quorum? Yes, indeed, we have a quorum.
Hon. Senators, before we continue, I wish to acknowledge the presence of our visitors who are visiting us today. Allow me to introduce to you a delegation of the Members of the County Assembly from the County of Garissa who are seated at the Gallery to my right. The delegation is led by the Garissa County Assembly Speaker, hon. Mohammed Abe. As I continue to introduce the rest, I request that when an hon. Member is called, he or she should stand up and be acknowledged in the normal tradition of Parliament. Arising from the inadequacy of space in our gallery in this temporary Senate Chamber, the delegation has divided itself into three groups. This will be the first group. They are as follows:- Hon. Abubakar Mohammed Shide, Deputy Speaker; hon. Abdi Ali, hon. Abdiwahab Suleiman Baraki, hon. Mohammed Abdullahi Abdi and hon. Siyat Abdikarim Salat. They are accompanied by staff. Please, feel welcome to the Senate. Thank you.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, you remember that today we have reactions on the petition by Mr. Humphrey Khaunya. But before I allow you to do so, there is also another petition which I want to present to you. Hon. Senators, I have the following communication to make on a petition that has been presented through the Clerk pursuant to Standing Order No.222(2)(b). As hon. Senators are aware Article 119 of the Constitution says:- “Every person has a right to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including to enact, amend or repeal any legislation.” Standing Order No.217(1) provides that:- “ A petition to the Senate shall be— (a) submitted to the Clerk by the petitioner and reported to the Senate by the Speaker;” Standing Order No.222(2) further provides that:- “(2) When the Order “Petitions” is read, the Speaker shall- (b) in the case of a petition presented through the Clerk, report the petition to the Senate.” Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.222(2)(b), I hereby report to the Senate that the Petition on unconstitutionality of the National Government Co-ordination Act, Act No.1 of 2013, has been submitted by Ms. Wanjiru Gikonyo of the Institute for Social Accountability through the Clerk. Ms. Gikonyo, the petitioner, is a citizen of Kenya and the Chief Executive Officer of the Institute for Social Accountability (TISA); a civil society initiative committed towards the achievement of sound policy and good governance in local development and the uplifting of livelihoods, especially of the poor and marginalized in Kenya. In her petition, the petitioner draws the attention of the Senate to, among other provisions of law, Section 17 of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution, which provides that:- “Within five years after the effective date, the national Government shall restructure the system of administration commonly known as the provincial administration to accord with and respect the system of devolved government established under this Constitution.” The petitioner is of the view that the National Government Co-ordination Act, 2013, does not accord with the Constitution and other legislation on a number of grounds, including the following. 1. That the Act undermines the functional approach to the assignment of responsibilities as espoused in the Constitution and the Transition to Devolved Government Act, Act No.1 of 2012. The petitioner is of the view that the Act undermines The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I will assume that there are no contributions to that particular Petition because we will be awaiting a report from the Committee.
Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.224(1), I now, therefore, direct that since you have no comments, that the Petition be committed to the Standing Committee The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Notwithstanding the turbulent times that we are facing, we will continue discharging our Business as follows. I read my Statement. Hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.43(2), I beg to present the Senate Business for the coming week. The Rules and Business Committee will meet on Tuesday, 18th June, 2013, at 12.00 noon to schedule the Business of the Senate for the week commencing the same day. The Senate will continue with Business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper. In addition, the Senate will commence debate on the Motion by Sen. (Dr.) Machage concerning Establishment of Hospitals in Counties. On Wednesday, 19th June, 2013, during the morning sitting, the Senate will continue with Business not concluded on Tuesday, 18th June, 2013, and commence debate on the Motion by Sen. Catherine Mukite on Establishment of Graduate Enterprise Fund. In the afternoon sitting, the Senate will continue with the Business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday morning and consider any other Business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. On Thursday, 20th June, 2013, the Senate will continue with the Business not concluded on Wednesday afternoon and consider any other Business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hereby lay the Statement on the Table. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will be remembered that a few weeks ago, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale sought a Statement on the shuttle visit by His Excellency the Deputy President. I am now ready to give this Statement. But, apparently, my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, has requested that he be given more time to be able to interrogate the Statement which I am going to give. So, in this regard, I want to get your direction on how I can go about this issue. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sorry, Sen. Haji. Could you kindly repeat what you have just said?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready now to give the Statement sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, but apparently, he is appealing that he be given more time to interrogate the Statement. So, I wanted your direction on whether I should proceed or not.
It depends. Are you giving it within the time you promised that you would deliver the Statement?
Absolutely, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
You should proceed.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Speaker, Sir, question number one was whether the visit to African countries was a State visit or a private function. The visit by His Excellency the Deputy President to the four African countries was a State function. In accordance with Article 147(1) and (2) of the Constitution, His Excellency the President instructed him to undertake travel from the 16th to the 19th of May, 2013, to meet the Heads of States of the four African nations, namely; Congo Brazzaville, Gabon, Nigeria, Ghana and Algeria. However, the Algerian President was undergoing treatment and, hence there was no visit. The list of the delegation comprised 14 persons, which included the Deputy President and his Chief of Staff, four Members of Parliament nominated by the Majority Leaders of both the Senate and the National Assembly; a protocol officer from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, three security officers, a personal assistant to the Deputy President, two communication officers and an accountant from the Office of the Deputy President. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the purposes of the visit by the Deputy President to the four African countries are as follows:- (1) To address the enormous security challenges Somalia has posed to Kenya. It was necessary for Kenya to solicit support and influence the African Union (AU) position in so far as the management of Somalia is concerned; specially, the mandate of the African Union Mission in Somalia (AMISOM) to be enhanced and more resources made available to assist the Somali Government to set up local administrative and governance structures under the IGAD framework in Southern Somalia. (2) There are currently more than 500,000 refugees who have been resident in Kenya for more than a decade. Kenya pursued the matter at the AU Summit which was held between 23rd and 27th May, 2013. (3) To establish a deployment force to firmly deal with Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabaab and other terrorist activities. (4) Enhance the capacity of the African Union Mission in Somalia AMISOM on the local units to stop the inflow of contraband goods mainly sugar and electronics coming to the Port of Kismayu and causing security instability in northern Kenya; namely, in Garissa, Wajir and Mandera. (5) Effective security checks and enhancement of the capacity of AMISOM to stem the entry of Al-Qaeda elements from crossing into Kenya and affecting the economic growth of the country as well as the implementation of the Jubilee Manifesto. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Sen. Hassan Omar?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, following the issuance of that Statement, I want to know from Sen. Haji whether this Statement is signed by himself, the Cabinet Secretary or the Department? We are trying to lay precedence in terms of how these Statements are presented to the House.
Sen. Haji, let us take a few more clarifications. Our tradition is that we first allow the one who sought the Statement a chance to seek clarifications. I gave Sen. Hassan the first chance because he purported it to be a point of order. Sen. (Dr.) Khalawale, proceed!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Haji for the seriousness he has given this matter because as the Senate is aware, there was an attempt to address the same issue elsewhere hurriedly. I would like the Chairman of the Committee to give us a comparative cost of what it would have cost the taxpayer if the delegation of the Deputy President had chosen to use commercial flights. Kenyans know that we have continental flights, especially by Kenya Airways, that fairly connect all the capitals of Africa. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Haji, please, take note of the clarifications, so that you can respond to them one by one. Deputy Minority Leader!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Sen. Haji for the Statement. But there are a few things that do not add up in that it, particularly with regard to deployment of forces across our borders to Somalia. In fact, the only West African country that has contributed a small contingent of armed personnel is Sierra Leone. The fact that the Deputy President went to visit Congo Brazaville, Nigeria and Gabon really, if it was of any interest to this nation and with regard to issues that relate to the AU or AMISOM, in particular, he should have consolidated his efforts with IGAD. I tend to think this does not come out very clearly. May be he should tell us the actual reasons for the visit. Even if the visit was for bilateral talks, the composition of the membership of that delegation did not even include senior members in the Ministries of Foreign Affairs and EAC Affairs, Commerce and Tourism. So, Probably what Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale raised the other day, may be true. There may have been elements of lobbying. Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Order, Sen. Abdirahman!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one more comment, if you will allow me.
I will allow you one more comment. But I will not allow you to give your own opinions. You are supposed to seek clarifications from the Statement made.
Thank you for the guidance, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could he clarify what the intentions were with regard to the movement? Finally, my last comment is, it is even cost-effective to use the air force planes. Why did the Deputy President chose to fly on that jet? Why did he not use the commercial airlines? We need to save money for this country. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Haji, do you have the capacity to take some more clarifications?
I do not mind, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I can take two more clarifications.
Let us have the last two. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairman clarify whether the trip by the Deputy President to the countries mentioned had anything to do with the agenda that came up at the AU? It makes sense if it had something to do with the agenda. Secondly, given the omnibus character of the Statement that the Chairman has given, it looks like the Deputy President had a whole laundry list of issues that he was raising. What was the key issue that took the Deputy President, was it Somalia or all the other issues? Finally, could these other issues which, to me, look very peripheral, not have been handled at the ambassadorial level rather than having a Deputy President sauntering around Africa on issues that ambassadors can handle and bring back to the relevant Ministries for the consumption of the Government?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the Statement that was given by my colleague, Sen. Haji, he indicated that this trip was to serve the country. When the Deputy President came back, there was no statement whatsoever that was made by him to explain to Kenyans where he was and what he achieved for this country. Secondly, Sen. Haji tried to prove the cost of the private jet. It was very clear that, that private jet was not just paid for one trip. It was paid for a whole year. The cost that was given was only 25 per cent or a quarter of the payment that was made. He should clarify why the private jet was paid for one year in advance to await further trips to be taken. Lastly, Mr. Speaker, Sir---
And the very last!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what came out in Addis Ababa had absolutely nothing to do with this country, but the ICC issue. Let him clarify that.
Sen. Haji, you may now respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to respond to Sen. Hassan Omar, the Statement is given and signed by myself. So it is from me. As to the question raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, did you hear the Chairman say that this was his own Statement, by him and from him?
Hey, please, can you yield? He is about to punch me! He is a former Provincial Commissioner (PC)!
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Sen. Haji, both of you cannot be standing. It is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who has the Floor.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If, indeed, that is the case, then as the originator of the Statement, I do not want to listen to it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, because a member of the Legislature cannot purport to respond on a matter directed to the Executive on behalf of the Executive. I was expecting that on that point of order the Chairman would table a Statement signed by the Cabinet Secretary in the respective department. Then we will know that arising from whatever we shall deliberate here, when it comes to the time of implementation or when we want to hold him to account, then this will be the evidence to signify that, indeed, the Government---
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is already on a point of order! But I will allow you after him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this will be evidence to signify that the Executive was taking responsibility. Surely---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! This was supposed to be a point of order. I think you have made your point.
Thank you, I thought I was not quite clear.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to request the Chairman of the relevant committee to comply with conditions which have not been set by either the ruling of the Speaker or any other Standing Order or precedent? For example, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has said we need a Statement signed by the Cabinet Secretary. These are new ways of doing things. The Speaker has not either through a ruling or review of the Standing Orders given any direction on this. This House is not seized with a proper tradition. So, is he in order to require the Chairman to do something which is not required by any law, Standing Orders or the rulings of the Chair?
The point of order is directed at me!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that----
Order, Senators Dr. Khalwale and Haji! Let me just dispose of the tussle between Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the Senate Majority Leader. Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki was very clear. He was addressing the issues to the Chair and not to the Senator for Kakamega County. I will dispose of that matter if the Chairman of the Committee responds to it first. Before he proceeds with the rest of the issues, I will deal with that matter for the substantive issues. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should get things right. In the first place, when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale asked for a Statement, he requested that the Statement be given by the Chairman of the National Security and Foreign Affairs. It will also be recalled that by that by that time, we did not have a Secretary of State responsible for these matters. Therefore, the Statement is being delivered by me. As to how I got the information, that is not relevant because if---
Order, hon. Senators! I will allow you. Let him finish first!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I got the information required from the Office of the Deputy President. Therefore, it is official and quite in order. So, if I may continue---
Order! Resume your seat! Hon. Members I think I had said I will respond to this in terms of the source of the information. To start with, I want to agree with the Senate Majority Leader that this issue has actually been canvassed on the Floor. The facts are that, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale sought the Statement from the Chairman and Sen. Hassan, at some stage asked whether that Statement should come from the Chairman alone or it should come after the Committee as deliberated. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and your good self canvassed that matter last time, but only yesterday, you came back and withdrew the request in its entirety, including the other issues. So, you denied the Speaker the opportunity to respond to that particular matter. But I think it is valid when you ask the source of the information. It is also valid, the fact that Sen. Haji is a Member of the Senate. He is not the Executive. So, it is important that the sources are known. But he has clarified although in a convoluted manner that he actually obtained the information from the relevant office. I feared that he was going to say that, that was his secret weapon. Just to confirm, this is a place to reveal all secrets. So, it is important to have the information. But I think Sen. Haji, the Chairman has acquitted himself properly on his sources. So, let us proceed.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to go one step further. We have understood what you said. From the inception of this House, when we started we said that we are all learning. In the past, practice demanded Cabinet Ministers to come to the Floor and they were asked Questions. Now that they have been replaced by Chairmen of the various committees, particularly with regard to the majority side that runs Government. Authenticity is one thing; just like Sen. Haji was responding he said that this is from the office of the Deputy President. That is acceptable. But the question now is, for authenticity’s sake, must the Chairman carry along with him something that confirms that this is from the Office of the President or the Deputy President; a signed document. So, could he clarify for us? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
But I think that is not the matter for this Chairman or any other Chairman of the Committee. This is really a matter for the House to speak to itself. So, I think the appropriate method is for you to canvas from the Chair. As you said, this is a new practice. So, we will need to establish what we consider to be the best practice. But I think as of now, it is not a requirement. Even previously, Sen. Abdirahman, it was not a requirement until you demanded for the documentation to be tabled or any other evidence which you can still seek as a requirement. So, this is a matter we will need to dispose of.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In my view, this matter is important. We are about to create a precedent that will set a tradition that other Houses, later on, many years to come, will be using. Maybe there might be wisdom for you to spend some time so that you see if you can create a clear road map of what is expected of a Chairman of a Committee once a Statement is sought. It should be clear to the Chair that it is not an opportunity for him to show his expertise or understanding of his Committee, but an opportunity for him to summon the respective Accounting Officer who then appears before his Committee or a sub-committee of his Committee, brings relevant supporting documents which he can use to convince the House. Maybe you want to consider that for further clarity.
Those are definitely good suggestions which will be considered at the appropriate time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to request that you guide the House on two issues. This is a House of Parliament. We have traditions from other Houses of Parliament all over the world. Indeed, any Statement read by the Chair of a Committee must be a Statement signed by the relevant Cabinet Secretary and not by the Chair. We will need guidance on that. Secondly, we also have seen today in one of the Houses of Parliament in this country, a precedent where a Cabinet Secretary has been invited to come and present or read a Statement from the Floor of the House. Again, if you could guide this House when we are going forward if the relevant Committee can invite a Cabinet Secretary to come in person and read the Statement from the Floor of this House.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Following in the footsteps of Sen. Billow, I want to reveal that the sub-Committee of the House Rules and Business Committee is actually dealing with this problem. It is a unique problem. We have to decide what type of Parliament or Senate we want to be. In the United States of America, for example, it is not a pure presidential system because the Vice-President of the United States of America is actually the Speaker of the Senate. So, there is some linkage. But in our system, as of now, we have a pure presidential system and it will be very odd for a Member of this House or even a Chairman to pretend to be speaking for the Executive. That also notwithstanding, the principle or collective responsibility was enshrined in the old Constitution so that when a Member of the Government was speaking wherever, and more so, in the House, he was bound by his Statements. Not only just him, but the Government was bound by his Statement. But the Executive now is not bound by the Statement made by the Chair. I am also a Chairman of a Committee. For that matter, I am The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Orengo! You are becoming repetitive.
Okay. That is all that I wanted to say. We need a clear guideline on this.
Indeed, hon. Senators, I want to agree with Sen. Orengo. This is why I have been reluctant to make a ruling on this particular matter because we need to do a bit of research. We set up a Committee to review our Standing Orders and only yesterday I gave them a notice that they had one day to submit those proceedings. I think they are concluding today. So, we are waiting for all those kinds of input, so that we can now dispose of the matter. This is a new experience for us. So, we will need to deliberate a bit more on what will serve us better, taking into account other experiences from elsewhere. So, for the time being, we will take the understanding that the Chair, which is responsible to the House and not to the Cabinet Secretary, will do due diligence of ensuring that the information is actually obtained from Government and not elsewhere. The crux of the matter has been the assumption of the Standing Orders that every Committee Chair must come from a party that belongs to the Government. What happens when the Chairs are from parties that are not forming the Government? Then you will find the thick part in this arrangement. But we do not want to rush and take a position now. Our position will be informed by all difficulties reflected in the discharge of our responsibilities this afternoon. So, let us have a bite and also look for a way forward. Thank you.
Sen. (Dr.) Machage, we need to conclude this matter.
He should desist from giving us illegitimate information.
I do not think that anybody in this House said that the information was illegitimate. Hon. Senators were just wondering about his sources of information and he has clarified that. We are only saying that we are not happy with the procedure, but we will fix it. But in terms of the information, Sen. Haji who is in charge of the Committee was quite within his rights to deliver the statement he has delivered. Nobody questioned it at that time apart from a clarification that we got. Sen. Haji, just conclude. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was trying to answer the concerns that were raised by Members. However, they are apparently overshooting on our time notwithstanding the fact that with regard to comparative cost, it would not be reasonable to expect the Deputy President to travel to four countries with the same appointment of time and days in a commercial plane which out of experience we know causes a lot of delays. That would have been an embarrassment to Kenya as a nation. On the issue of receipts and invoices, I do not have those with me neither am I prepared to present them today as well as documents showing the procurement process. The issue of the former Prime Minister using this plane earlier is irrelevant. We are not dealing with the previous Government. We are dealing with the current Government. Hon. Hassan asked whether the visit was relevant. It was relevant. If you listened to me carefully when I was explaining why the Deputy President was going for this shuttle, I said it was to get a report that he would give to the President to go with to the African Union (AU) meeting which was held on 23rd and 24th May. Top of the agenda was the issue of Somalia and the African Union Mission in Somalia (AMISOM). It was clearly not important for him to visit the Inter-Governmental Authority on Development (IGAD) Members because these ones are already on board and support the initiative being undertaken by Kenya. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, I want to thank him for being very sharp and saying that if this had some relevance with the AU meeting, then it was in order. I want to assure him that it had a lot of relevance to the AU meeting. Sen. Muthama said that when the Deputy President came back he did not make a statement. I think making a statement is not relevant. He was tasked by the Office of the President and, indeed, he went to brief the President when he came back. As a result of that brief, the President attended the AU meeting and IGAD was mandated to deal with the issue of Somalia. Therefore, it was quite relevant. I think I have answered all the questions.
The last one is by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, but this is not question time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not introducing anything new. I am just requesting the Chair to direct that the Chairman comes back and tables the procurement process documents, the invoices and receipts. The Chair should direct further that the Chairman desists from hiding the embarrassment of the Executive by way of them avoiding to wait. We know that when you are connecting at Heathrow to go to the US, at times, you wait for eight hours. No one gets embarrassed. So, the issue of waiting for two hours to connect to another flight cannot be the reason not to give a comparative study. He must give us a comparative cost of the trip if we had used a commercial flight.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to mislead this House that while traveling to West Africa, we wait for two or three hours while we know that connections to West Africa do not exist and at times we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Who has asked you to respond? Points of order are directed to the Chair. It is up to the Chair to ask that you respond or to say otherwise. Let the Chairman handle that matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should be a little bit more considerate and know that travelling alone as a passenger in a commercial flight is quite different from a Deputy President or for that matter a President travelling to another state. It would be embarrassing for any nation to see that a President has been delayed for six hours because he is using a commercial plane. So, I think it was quite in order for them to travel in a hired jet.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am seeking the indulgence of the House because I noticed that we very quickly moved to Order No.7 whereas in the appendix, there were Motions whose notices were to be given. I was listed to give notice on Motion No.1(c).
Order, hon. Senators. While Sen. Musila had petitioned the Chair to allow this, I take great exception to his use of the word “quickly”. All the Orders were called out in a systematic manner. It is up to the Members who have Notices of Motions to stand up for the Chair to acknowledge them. When you sit, I may not be sure whether you want to proceed with the Motion or whether you have changed your mind. I will allow you, but demand that as you give your notice, you also apologise.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will comply and apologise for not standing at the appropriate time to give notice of this Motion. The reason for this is simple. You have seen that the House is in some sort of turbulence because of circumstances which are known to everybody. This was not intended to interfere with the Business of today. Therefore, I apologise. I beg to give notice of the following Motion. REQUEST FOR ADVISORY OPINION FROM THE SUPREME COURT ON THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE PROCESS FOLLOWED IN THE DISPOSAL OF THE DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL, 2013 THAT, aware that the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 was assented to by the President on 11th June, 2013, convinced that the action of the National Assembly to reject or ignore the amendments passed by the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, you will notice that this Motion was in yesterday’s Order Paper. However, due to lack of quorum, we could not proceed. Therefore, I have directed that the Notice and the Motion, according to our Standing Orders, be prosecuted on the same day. This is also due to its urgency.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to seek your guidance on the Notice of Motion given by the Senate Majority Leader or by the Leader as we now refer to him. This is in pursuant to Standing Order No.90(1) which says; “Subject to paragraph (5), no Senator shall refer to any particular matter that is
or which, by the operation of any written law is secret.” I seek your guidance because we are all privy to the events that took place this morning. Most of us participated and lodged our plea to the Supreme Court. My worry is that it is very likely that we will stray into the subject matter of the issues we are seeking the Supreme Court to interpret for us. Therefore, I think that this Motion has been overtaken by events. I do not think we are adding any value to this. We made our plea to the Supreme Court. It is only fair that we wait for a ruling from the Supreme Court.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. While recognizing the concerns of Sen. Khaniri, I think it is important, for the record, that this House dispenses with this Notice of Motion or subsequently, the Motion itself. The objective here is to have it on the records of this House. We filed a case this morning and thereafter had a Press Conference where we restrained ourselves. Nothing stops these Members from restraining themselves in terms of their contributions to this issue. It is not even a must that we debate it for long. We can have about three contributions then we move on.
In addition to what Sen. Murkomen has stated, this Motion is not discussing the substance of the matter. This is actually a Procedural Motion, so that the Senate can have a resolution on the actions that we have been taken. So, speak to the process. In terms of whether you can stray, that is why we have a Chair. It is my job to make sure that you are within the determined path. So, be prepared for restraint if you have any illusions of overstepping.
What is it Sen. Orengo?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just in agreement with what your comments are on this issue of the sub judice rule, I think that there is enough precedent. Even in the previous House, there was a substantive ruling that was given. Sen. Khaniri says if it is taken too far, then you may never even have to discuss issues that are legitimately before The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think that what Sen. Khaniri said is very relevant to this matter. This Motion may not add value in terms of debate, but in terms of resolution, it will be taken as the property of the Senate. Since we all agree that the action that was taken is relevant, then I think that we should allow the Mover and Seconder and then put the Question. That is my humble suggestion.
Well said, Sen. G.G. Kariuki, except that this is a Notice. I am sure that the Members will observe your wise suggestions when the Motion itself is being prosecuted. AGREEMENT BETWEEN NATIONAL AND COUNTY GOVERNMENTS ON INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT AND EQUIPPING OF EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just like the Senate Majority Leader initially said, I am also apologizing for not rising at the right time. I will be more honest and say that I am still in the learning process. Next time, I will be more cautious. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, recognizing that the respective functions and powers of national and county governments are provided for in Article 186 and the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, and that under paragraphs 15, 16 and 17 of Part 1 of the Fourth Schedule, education policy, including promotion of sports, is a function of the national government; further recognizing that Article 187 of the Constitution provides for the transfer of functions and powers from one level of government to the other, particularly if the function or power can be more effectively performed by the receiving government; aware that Part III of the Intergovernmental Relations Act, 2012 requires that agreements on transfer of functions be in writing and Part III of the Transition to Devolved Government Act, 2012 recognizes the role of the Transition Authority in the transfer of functions; the Senate urges the national government to enter into agreement with county governments with a view to transferring resources, functions and powers relating to development of infrastructure and equipping of institutions of learning, at primary and secondary levels, to county governments. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that mobile telephone communication plays a major role in the social and economic development of any nation; acknowledging the positive role mobile telephone providers have played in providing communication and other related benefits to our country; noting with concern, however, that despite these efforts, mobile telephone penetration in Kenya still remains at less than 50%, which is a major constraint to development particularly in the rural areas; the Senate urges the National Government to provide a policy framework of partnership with private telephone network providers, to provide mobile telephone services to hitherto neglected parts of the country, and further urges all County Governments to provide budgets to supplement mobile telephone providers to develop mobile telephone networks in areas deemed to be not economically viable with a view to ensuring that 100% mobile telephone penetration is attained in Kenya by the year 2017.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 was assented to by the President on 11th June, 2013, convinced that the action of the National Assembly to reject or ignore the amendments passed by the Senate to the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013, on 23rd May, 2013 and resolve to forward the Bill to the President for assent without further reference to the Senate, is in contravention of the Constitution, the Senate resolves to request the Supreme Court to give an Advisory opinion on the constitutionality of the process followed in the disposal of the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 and the appropriate way forward in the matter. Mr. Speaker, Sir, given your direction just now, I think that this is fairly a procedural matter that is also constrained by the fact that part of the action in question has already happened and we are bound by certain traditions and legal constraints. It is only fair that this House resolves in a formal way that this position is the correct way of attending to this matter. All Senators here are aware of the subject matter of the Motion and that we have gone to the Supreme Court to find a legal way of interpreting the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Order! Order, Senators! Where you need to stand is on a matter seeking leave of the House, so that we can count to determine whether the requisite number has been met. On this one, if you wish the debate not to proceed and for the Question to be put, then you should all be seated.
Put the question!
Obviously, just to confirm that while the majority want the Question to be put, there are two dissenting voices and they will be allowed. What is it Sen. Orengo?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think that I was really persuaded by what Sen. G.G. Kariuki said; that in as much as all of us would want to say something about this matter, I think that we are safer leaving the contest to be fought in court. Sen. Khaniri, I think, also had these concerns. So, without shutting the mouth of any of the Senators, I request that the Question be put and we move on to the next Order.
Sen. Orengo, this is a matter that the Chair can be unhelpful to you. You need to persuade your colleagues. I think that you have persuaded them. Senators, before I put the Question, I need to confirm that this is not a matter affecting counties. This is a matter for the entire Senate. I, therefore, wish to put the Question.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Who was on the Floor last time? Hon. Senators, this Motion has a balance of 20 minutes. We had reached the stage of disposing of an amendment which had been proposed by Sen. Njoroge. You appreciate that this is a Motion affecting counties. So, the voting to the amendment would be by County Delegations. Just to refresh your memory, the Motion as proposed by Sen. Njoroge reads:- “THAT the Motion be amended by deleting the word “Senate” in the 11th line and replacing thereof with the following words “resolves to establish a Select Committee to initiate legislation to require investors to pay a percentage of the turnover as royalties to the counties where they operate and to determine. (a) the criteria to be used in payment of percentage of royalties by investors in the counties where the exploitation of natural resources occurs; (b) how the revenue accrued will be utilized by the country and the counties; (c) any other relevant issue that may arise in regard to other existing legislation. The Committee shall comprise the following Senators:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are counties where this question of natural resources is very dear and some Senators had expressed to be part and parcel of this Committee. They include Sen. Obure from Kisii County, Sen. Murkomen from Elgeyo-Marakwet County and Sen. (Dr) Machage from Migori County. I do not know why the Senator from Trans Nzoia is raising his hands. That is, Sen. Ole Ndiema and Sen. Chiaba from Lamu. The Mover of this Motion has no objection to the addition of those names. So, the names could be added to be part and parcel of what we are going to vote for in the amendment. You could give direction on that.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Hassan, I was consulting to determine the stage in which the matter had reached.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not particularly sure of the order, but the Clerk can advise us. I know that when names are tabled in Parliament or on the Floor of the House, there is a Standing Order that says you either accept the names in total or you reject them in total. You cannot start to amend by including names. So, the decision that can be taken is to stay the adoption of this report or this standing committee, so that the House Business Committee can regenerate the names afresh and bring them here.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The names do not come from the House Business Committee. It was an amendment on the Floor of the House. So, it has nothing to do with clearance in any other institution.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to know if the Committee on Natural Resources should not be seized of this matter.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Murkomen’s view is highly acceptable to most of us. Would I be in order to request him to move an amendment on the amendment to change the list of names tabled?
Order, Senators. This matter is fairly straight forward. This is one amendment. If we make many amendments to amendments, I think the Standing Orders are very clear. As long as the amendments do not alter the substance of the original Motion or even the further amendments to other amendments should not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators. I call upon Sen. (Dr.) Machage to move his further amendments.
Madam Temporary Speaker, in view of the importance of management of resources in Kenya and taking cognizance of the fact that Sen. Njoroge had wisely thought of having a committee to manage the legislative matters on this issue, and he did submit a few names, I beg the Chair to allow me to move an amendment on Sen. Njoroge’s amendment. I beg to move:- THAT the names proposed do also include the following names:- 1. Sen. Musila 2. Sen. Obure 3. Sen. (Dr.) Machage 4. Sen. Murkomen 5. Sen. Ole Ndiema 6. Sen. Wako 7. Sen. Hassan. I beg to move and request Sen. Murkomen to second.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I second. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, you are aware that this Motion affects counties, so voting will be by delegations. The names will be read to you and you will affirm whether you support or not. Can you ring the Division Bell for eight minutes?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. When I came here, I said that I was still learning, but I think we are mixed up. What are we voting for?
The further amendment on the amendment.
But we had not disposed of the first amendment.
It is procedural that we have to dispose of the amendment to the amendment before we deal with amendment.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have learnt.
Can the Division Bell be rung because we are running out of time?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Under Standing Order No.53, would I be in order to request that the numbers of the Senators be authenticated to meet the threshold to proceed to vote?
We shall ring the Division Bell first and then we will ascertain. Could the Division Bell be rung? Meanwhile, could we get two tellers; one for the Ayes and the other for the Noes?
Order, hon. Senators! The Division Bell has been rung. We will now move to vote.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I stand on a point of order following the request by Sen. (Dr.) Machage with regard to Standing Order No.51(3) “Despite paragraph (2), the Speaker may, on the request of a Senator, defer the putting of the question to the following day in which case the Speaker shall thereupon nominate a time at which the question shall be put.” I stand to request that the Question be put on Tuesday, 18th, June, at about 3.00 pm due to lack of adequate quorum at this moment. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, as I support the point proposed by Sen. (Dr.) Zani, I will also refer to Standing Order No. 56 which also specifically talks about quorum and this is a request we pray that the Chair will consider.
Hon. Senators, I have made reference to the Standing Orders. That request is granted. We will defer putting of the question to Tuesday, 18th at 3.00 pm.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to move this Motion subject to permission being granted by the Speaker under Standing Order No.46 which reads as follows: “The Speaker may permit a Senator to move in an amended form a Motion of which notice has been given if in the opinion of the Speaker the amendment does not materially alter any principle embodied in the Motion of which notice has been given.” Subject to your permission, I will move as follows. However, before I proceed to move the Motion, I have to read out the Motion so that you see if the amendment materially alters the spirit and the substance of the Motion. I beg to move:- THAT, knowing that Section 17 of the Sixth Schedule to the Constitution requires the national government to restructure the system of administration commonly known as the “Provincial Administration” to accord with and respect the system of devolved government established in the Constitution; noting that the Provincial Administration continues to operate in circumstances that have affected the exercise of certain functions and operations of the county governments; appreciating the doubts about the constitutionality of offices linked with the Provincial Administration including provincial, regional and county commissioners, as established and deemed to be part of the national government; the Senate resolves to establish a select committee comprising the following Senators to inquire into all existing legislation that may undermine the authority, mandate and functions of the county governments and draft appropriate legislation for enactment by Parliament. Madam Temporary Speaker, on that last line, I am deleting the words, “with the aim of drafting” and simply saying, “draft appropriate legislation by Parliament.” The names of the Senators to comprise the Committee include; 1. Sen. James Orengo 2. Sen. Beth Mugo The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. (Sen.) Orengo, you are now speaking for me. I have listened to your request and, in my opinion; the proposed amendment does not materially alter the principles of this Motion. So, we can proceed.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The other time, I was looking at what other legislation exists which affects the system of devolved governments. To begin with, on matters of public administration and security, there is a whole cocktail of statutes that if not looked into and reviewed or amendments made to them, we will enter into a system where the Provincial Administration, particularly governors and county assemblies, will experience difficulties in governing counties. For example, under the law relating to liquor licensing, if you look at the Constitution, the authority of the county governments includes this kind of licensing. If you go into that Act, you will find that the process is under the District Commissioners. If you want a liquor licence, you have to apply to the District Commissioner. If you want to appear before a tribunal established under that Act, the Tribunal is presided over by the District Commissioner and yet under the Schedule, issues relating to liquor licensing fall under the county governments. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this very important Motion. As is now well known, this Senate is taking the issue of devolution very seriously. We are guided by principles of constitutionalism and the rule of law. Madam Temporary Speaker, what the Motion seeks to do is to establish a special purpose vehicle to review all the laws which might stand in the way or hinder the smooth implementation of devolution in this country. It is our duty, as the Senate, to make sure that this review is done. Madam Temporary Speaker, we must commend the Speaker of the Senate for the case that he filed in the Supreme Court, to emphasize the fact that the principles enshrined in our Constitution must be taken seriously by all the organs of State. It is in that spirit that we should also move with speed to ensure that all the laws are also put in line with the new Constitution. Those of us who were there then will remember that after the repeal of Section 2A in 1992, there remained a lot of colonial and one-party authoritarian rules, which made it impossible for us to enjoy the democratic space brought about by the move from one party rule to the multiparty system of Government. It was impossible for us to hold meetings in this country because of the Public Order Act. It was very difficult for us to move because of the Chiefs’ Authority Act. It took us five years to review those laws and remove them, so that Kenyans could enjoy freedom, which was guaranteed as a result of the repeal of Section 2A. Madam Temporary Speaker, we are exactly in the same position. The fact that there are some general provisions in the Constitution recognizing devolution does not mean that devolution is going to happen. There are so many laws in this country which do not recognize the governors and the Senate. There are many laws in this country which reflect the mentality and structures of the previous Government. So long as those laws are in place, it will not be possible for us to have devolution and decentralization of power and resources in this country. My learned friend, James Orengo, has talked about a few of them, but there are many others. For instance, the Chiefs’ Act now gives the chiefs power to manage the environment within the locations. There is no law which authorizes the Governor or Cabinet Secretary for Environment in the county government to do anything with the environment. All they have is a piece of paper appointing them to be in charge of that docket. But when they go to the ground, they will find that the person with the legal authority to deal with environmental issues is the chief. So, we have to amend The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion by Sen. Orengo. First and foremost, I would like to applaud Sen. Orengo for his credentials in the democratic struggle of this country. I do believe that this Motion tends to complete the democratization of Kenya. If you look at it critically, in Kenya, the suffocation of democratic space was largely a function of the Provincial Administration. Any government with a temptation to ensure that they protect the structure of the Provincial Administration in its current state is a government that is bent on undoing the gains of democracy in this country. Therefore, our democracy and constitutionalism is directly intertwined to the fact that the provincial administration must be restructured and reformed to conform to the new democratic aspirations of the Kenyan people. It is not in context that the temptation was an almost intact Provincial Administration by governments to ascertain controls that go in excess of the Constitution. We know for a very long time that chiefs, DOs, DCs and Provincial Commissioners (PCs) have been used for extra-constitutional enforcement of other issues that might not necessarily meet the test of constitutionality. The fact that this Motion was proposed by Sen. Orengo and then seconded by Sen. Murungi is testament to the fact that this is a Motion that comes from people who over the last couple of years demonstrated to be men who care to give this country the Constitution that matters and to deliver the promise of a new nationhood. Therefore, I come as one of their friends, who admired them greatly, to support this Motion because it properly tries to capture the spirit of our devolution. Madam Temporary Speaker, right now, it is no longer in doubt in this country that devolution is under threat. Constant systematic actions by the Government have demonstrated that given the opportunity, they will defeat the creed of devolution. That is why we have today decided to move in the manner that we have done as a Senate. We have decided that we needed to amend the Constitution to strengthen the role of the Senate. Therefore, inevitably we must amend all existing legislation to ensure that the role of devolution is protected and the mandate of devolved units are secured and not in competition or in conflict with the Provincial Administration. A couple of years back when this Constitution was promulgated, I had the radical view that the restructuring of the Provincial Administration could as well mean the abolishment of the Provincial Administration. At that point in time, those of us who were The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support---
Order, Senators! Let us hear Sen. Ong’era.
Thank you, Temporary Speaker, for coming to my rescue. Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, I would like to congratulate Sen. Orengo and Sen. Kiraitu Murungi. I would like it to be noted in this House that these were the “young Turks” who brought us the Second Liberation to this country and were instrumental in ensuring that we had a new Constitution. Of course, not forgetting that the new Constitution brought to us great benefits, including our “baby”; devolution. Madam Temporary Speaker, this Motion has come at the most appropriate time in the history of this nation, because today, more than ever, we are faced with an “elephant” in the House, and this “elephant” is the provincial administration. We have to come up The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Senator (Prof.) Anyang-Nyongo!
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Like my colleagues who have contributed to this Motion, I stand to support. I support it for three reasons; one, somewhere in the Constitution, it is said that, that thing which is called the Provincial Administration shall be restructured. The wording here is “shall be restructured”. There is no option about it. But restructuring the Provincial Administration does not simply mean just taking Provincial Commissioners (PCs) from the provinces and bringing them to the President’s Office. That is not restructuring. Restructuring means that the very rules of the game that establish certain offices must be changed, because the structure of a state is given by the legal framework that establishes that state. So, in this regard, what Sen. Orengo and his team are trying to do or are intending to do is to create this legal order that will restructure the Provincial Administration. That is very important. You cannot restructure that Provincial Administration if you do not deal with the legal order that existed before it. The pretense that we can do a kind of a little game of just moving personnel will not help. Secondly, Madam Temporary Speaker, we must understand that we should not devolve the bad manners of the authoritarian regime through the counties. By the bad The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Senator (Dr.) Machage.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. As I support this Motion as put forward to us and amended thereafter by Sen. James Orengo, I would like to remind the House that, actually, it is not only the House that has seen these issues; even members of the public have started complaining. Today we had a petition by Ms. Wanjiru Gikonyo, actually complaining about the unconstitutionality of the National Government Co-ordination Act, 2013. Like I put it, and I quote a Swahili phrase,
these are not issues that are being looked at today. I remember at one time when we were looking at the draft, I opposed the draft vehemently so because I saw a lot of lacunae, a lot of loopholes for abuse; a lot of inefficiencies and deficiencies. At one time, I was bold enough to pick on a Government Policy Paper on Lands; to be more explicit, Sessional Paper No.3 on the National Lands Policy of, I think, 2008. I think it is part 63.3.2. Check on that; I may have forgotten a little. But that was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, Sen. Wako has appropriately presented before the Speaker a notice to move an amendment to this Motion.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to propose an amendment and also to contribute to the Motion. This is indeed a very important Motion which goes at the root and at the heart of the success of a devolved structure of Government. Way back in the 1990s when people were agitating for a multi-party democracy; when people were agitating that we no-longer wanted an imperial presidency, a survey was carried out to determine what chapters of the Constitution they wanted amended. The survey asked the people what they really objected to. The surprising thing was that the survey at that time which involved the common man or ordinary person, they never suggested any amendment to the Constitution. They suggested amendments to the Chiefs’ Act, the Public Order Act and the Vagrancy Act. In other words, this machinery which was being used by the national Government at that time was the machinery which was seen by the people as oppressive and people wanted them amended. That is why also during the Inter-Parliamentary Parties Group (IPPG) of 1997, if you read that Statute Law Miscellaneous (Amendment) Bill, we did carry out quite a number of amendments to the Chiefs’ Act, the Public Order Act and other pieces of legislation which had been the base of the complaints by the people when specifically asked: What constitutional amendments do you want? To cut the long story short, that is why during the constitutional review process, everybody went for a devolved structure of Government. It is our duty, really, to ensure that this devolved structure of Government does indeed, work and work effectively in accordance with the Constitution which was endorsed by the majority of the people. Madam Temporary Speaker, the key words are that:- “The Provincial Administration must accord with and respect the system of devolved Government established in the Constitution”. I can say without any degree of contradiction that what has happened up to today as far as reforms to the Provincial Administration are concerned, do not in any way accord with a system as envisaged under our Constitution for the Devolved Government. For the Devolved Government to be effective, it must recognize the right of communities to manage their own affairs and to further their development. An effective devolved government must give powers of self governance to the people. One would pose the question: Have we really given – I know you have elected county representatives and so on – the people that power to participate in the decision making process; that power to be responsible for their own development and to contribute to their own development? That freedom of speech that is required at the various meetings at the local level; have you really given that power when I can assure you today that if a baraza was called to discuss a local issue and the chief or the District Officer (DO) were present and even the county representative was present, people will tend to fear the presence of the chief or the DO because they will say that that is the Government. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second. As hon. Wako was speaking, I remembered something very important about this Motion; about the political culture of changing names and so on. After the change of Government in Uganda in 1986 and the coming in of the National Resistance Movement (NRM), all local authorities were called resistance councils. They were referred to RC1, RC2 and this went up to the top. In fact, they did away with the previous way of naming the local organizations. So, they became part and parcel of this political culture of the NRM which was resisting the old order. This made the ordinary peasants in the countryside realise that they were also part of the change. I urge the Committee to think very creatively on how to restructure our local governance and bring in new names. The word location is very colonial. This is where the natives are located. The words “village headman”, even on gender consideration, presumes that a woman will never head anything. Probably we should think about names of popular councils or something like that so that we come in with a new culture. At the moment, the only thing that is popular is the word “devolution.” However, we need to break down devolution to the local level so that all of us are---
Sen. Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, are you aware that you have already spoken to the main Motion? Probably, you should stick to seconding the amendment.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. In speaking to the amendment, I would like to thank Sen. Wako for the reasons he has given as to why this amendment is important. As he has pointed out, I did not, in the same way that Sen. Hassan did, go through the membership or try to justify why those names are there. However, he did a good job in trying to establish some kind of rhythm and justification in having those names in the original Motion although we are still discussing an amendment to that Motion. To that extent, the Attorney-General Emeritus has gone further to give justification for the membership. What he has done in effect is to make sure that other relevant committees that have functions and mandates that may ultimately involve the work of this proposed Committee are also included in the Committee. I am very excited to have the Chair of the Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources Committee join this proposed Committee because as you know, I said this at the beginning, and there are about 67 pieces of legislations covering the area of agriculture and animal husbandry. I am using the phrase animal husbandry even though The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I also rise to support the amendment by the leader of the delegation from Busia. Madam Temporary Speaker, I think that it is a very good amendment. The four nominees, in my view, will enrich the Select Committee. Apart from the gender consideration that the delegation leader from Busia made, I also think that the four other nominees, especially the Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Sen. Kivuti, will add a lot of merit to this Select Committee. Madam Temporary Speaker, I support.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to move that we adjourn and defer the putting of the question to next week on Tuesday. Standing Order No.51 (3) says:- “Despite paragraph (2), the Speaker may, on the request of a Senator, defer the putting of the question to the following day in which case the Speaker shall thereupon nominate a time at which the question shall be put.” Madam Temporary Speaker, I, therefore, request that we defer the putting of the question until next week on Tuesday.
Hon. Senators, that request is in order, according to Standing Order No.51. I now rule that the putting of the question be deferred to Tuesday, 18th June, 2013, at 4.00 p.m.
Hon. Senators, it is now time to adjourn the House. This House is, therefore, adjourned until Tuesday 18th June, 2013, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.55 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.