Order, hon. Senators! I am informed that we have a quorum. Let us proceed with today’s business.
Sen. Nobwola, I do not see you stand in your place. I see you have a notice of Motion. Proceed to the Dispatch Box.
Even if your notice is listed on the Order Paper, you still have to stand up to be recognized. Proceed. ESTABLISHMENT OF COUNTY PUBLIC HEALTH COMPLAINTS BOARDS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion to the Department of Health:- THAT, concerned with the rising cases of patient mistreatment, negligence and professional malpractice by medical personnel in public and private health institutions in Kenya which take the form of misdiagnosis, wrong decisions on treatment and prescription, medical or surgical errors, physical or verbal abuse, detention for inability to pay for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to issue a Statement on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader. Sen. Orengo requested a Statement in regard to the status of Migingo Island following the recent incident where a confrontation was reported between some administration police and the Uganda police officers. The hon. Senator requested to be informed of the position of the Government regarding the status of the island. He also requested to be informed which---
Order, Sen. Haji. I do not see Sen. Orengo around.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, he must be here.
Hon. Ethuro): Sorry, what did you say?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am waiting for your direction.
Do you have another Statement to issue?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Why do you not start on that one? In the meantime, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o is directed to deliver Sen. Orengo to the House for his Statement.
To the House?
Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, because of the seriousness that we give institutions of this country, it is important that the public continues understanding that when the Speaker is addressing the House, an hon. Senator is completely out of order to stand there and interject, even before you give your direction. Is Sen. Haji in order?
He is completely out of order! I heard some murmurs. I thought he would repeat what he said. Obviously being Sen. Yusuf Haji, a man of long experience, he knew he would invite the wrath of the Chair if he repeated The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise. I was trying to say I was waiting for your direction.
Proceed with the other Statement. GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO SUPPORT MIRAA TRADERS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Senator who requested for this Statement is also not here.
Which Statement is that?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Statement was sought by Sen. Murungi on the issue of miraa .
Who is presenting the Statement for the Business of the Senate for the coming week?
Hon. Senators, I note that there are many Statements that are currently outstanding. We have one on the Transfer of National Government Functions to County Governments. This should come from the Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government. There is also another one on Government Efforts to Support miraa Traders. I guess that is the one Sen. Haji wanted to present. The Statement was sought by Sen. Murungi. The Statement on Migingo Island was asked by Sen. Orengo, on behalf of Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o. Since Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o is here, we can proceed with it. Proceed, Sen. Yusuf Haji. TERRITORIAL STATUS OF MIGINGO ISLAND
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. James Orengo, requested for a Statement with regard to the status of Migingo Island following a recent incident where a confrontation was reported between some administration police and Uganda police officers. The hon. Senator requested to be informed of the position of the Government regarding the status of the island and which security personnel occupy and govern Migingo Island and the circumstances that surround the confrontation that occurred between the two police services. Lastly, he requested to be informed of the efforts that are being made to resolve the dispute over the island and to ensure that the island remains an integral part of the territory of Kenya without any foreign forces occupying or administering it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to state as follows:- According to the Government of Kenya, the international boundary between the two countries is defined by the Kenya Colony and Protectorate (Boundaries) Order in Council of 1926 which clearly identifies Migingo Island as being in Kenya. The island The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologise on behalf of Sen. Orengo who is held up somewhere. But I will hold brief for him. Having received the Statement from Sen. Haji, could he explain to the House why the Ugandan security forces have systematically been belligerent against both the Kenyan security forces and the residents of Migingo Island while negotiations are on-going to determine the legal boundaries in that area?
Let us hear from Sen. (Dr.) Machage. If we can be as brief as Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has been, the better for Sen. Haji.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my name is Sen. (Dr.) Machage, not Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! Did the Chair call you Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o? I thought I called out Sen. (Dr.) Machage. If I called out the name of Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, why did you respond?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was on a light note. I apologise. Migingo Island is in my county and hence the concern. The legitimacy of a Government is to protect, not only the security of its citizens, but also defend the boundaries of the country, in this case, Kenya. There has been a systematic ignoring of intimidation of my people in Migori County at Migingo Island.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! You are seeking a clarification, but you are now delivering another Statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am building my case—
Please, do not do so. Yours is just to seek a clarification. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Government tell this House if the boundaries between Kenya and Uganda at Migingo area are not protected because Migori County is predominantly in the opposition?
Yes, Sen. Musila. KILLING OF 12 PEOPLE IN NYANYA VILLAGE, KITUI COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Haji for the Statement. I had requested clarification on the issue of the 12 people who were murdered in my county at a place called Nyanya. It is about a month now since this unfortunate incident happened. The culprit is yet to be apprehended and continues to send Short Message Services (SMS) threatening villagers. As of now, he is still at large. What is the Government doing to arrest this criminal, so that the villagers of Nyanya are at peace? DESTRUCTION OF BOUNDARY PILLARS BY UGANDAN AUTHORITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is surprising that pillars are being brought down by Ugandan authorities. I want clarification on the other pillars along the same border. We have the Ugandan escarpment that borders Turkana and West Pokot. What comprehensive demarcation is being undertaken to ensure that this border is demarcated and the pillars that were brought down and removed by authorities or pastoralists along this escarpment are reinstated and, therefore, put in the right position?
Let us have the last two clarifications from Sen. Kivuti and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, whereas the Government of Kenya spends so much money in collaboration with the Government of Uganda to do the survey work, could the responder clarify how much money has been spent, so far, on the demarcation works to establish the Kenyan boundaries? He should also tell us about the coordinates of the actual boundary position which, whether there is a beacon or not, the coordinates are factual.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, at Migingo Island, the bottom line is the resource called fish. Kenyans at Migingo want to have an opportunity to fish, and so do the Ugandans. Could the responder tell us why they have allowed Ugandan fishermen to enjoy protection from Ugandan police and we have refused to deploy Kenyan police to also protect Kenyan fishermen, so that they also enjoy the fish resource?
Sen. Haji, you can now respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, to respond to the question by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o on why Ugandan authorities have been belligerent in spite of the fact that various measures have been put in place to try and resolve the issue of Migingo Island, I agree with him that this matter has taken quite a while to be resolved. But since a meeting will be held between 5th and 9th August, 2013, hopefully, we will be able to reach an agreement. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Haji, the other concern of your mentor is that as you take your sweet time, the one you call the “guy” is still threatening villagers. What are you doing in the intervening period, at least, to stop the threats?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know the police are following up this case. They are trying to trace him because he is hiding somewhere. One of these days, he will resurface and they will be able to arrest him. I will even advise them to use the current technology to reach him wherever he is hiding. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the issue raised by Sen. Kivuti on the amount of money that was spent on the survey, this is a totally new question. I am not in a position to respond to it. My naughty friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale – it is good the Chair did not hear me!
Order, Sen. Haji! I would have allowed that to pass on two accounts, assuming that I did not hear. But I heard you. I was also hopping that, that friend will also complain, but he has not. Since I heard you, you need to withdraw the word “naughty”.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologise. Naomba msamaha. Our citizens in Migingo Island are being protected. As I said earlier, there are already police officers on the island. They are giving our fishermen the protection they require, both individually and in their fishing undertakings. As long as they do not cross to areas where we do not have jurisdiction, we will continue to protect them. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of pillars is a new question. However, what I know is that before I left Government, a decision had been made to reinstate all our boundary pillars. This had been done with Ethiopia. The second stage will be with Uganda, Tanzania and, finally, Somalia. This exercise is ongoing and will be reinstated. It is unfortunate that pastoralists are the worst victims of this because they tend to use spears and destroy the pillars.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senator has not addressed my issue.
I am glad you spoke before I gave you a chance. He said that this is a new issue and that he would seek more information. That is the time you should have sought new information. That matter is settled there. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you for this opportunity. I listened to the Chairman, Sen. Haji, talk about the issue of transition. As my history and the issue of Migingo serves me--
Order, Sen. Okongo. We concluded that matter. The next statement is from Sen. Haji. GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO SUPPORT MIRAA TRADERS
Sen. Kiraitu Murungi requested for an official statement from the Government on; (i) whether miraa is a drug or a cash crop; (ii) what challenges miraa farmers and traders are facing regarding marketing the crop within Kenya and internationally, especially in European markets; and, (iii) what the Government is doing to mitigate these challenges. I beg to reply.
is a plant whose fresh leaves and soft twigs are chewed to release the juice containing cathinone and cathine. Miraa is a cash crop since is it planted and marketed for commercial purposes. It has deep root and cultural and economic importance to the community concerned particularly the producers. Any effort to regulate its production, sale and consumption will call for the involvement of key stakeholders, including the community, political and civic leaders. The Government is aware that the main challenge that farmers and traders of miraa are facing is that the local and international drug control agency is pushing for the ban and control of miraa consumption. To mitigate these challenges, the Government will form a taskforce to conduct an in-depth study on the production, sale and consumption of miraa. The taskforce will facilitate dialogue with the relevant stakeholders, including the affected communities and policy makers in order to come up with sustainable interventions.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Senate Leader of Majority, through Sen. Haji, for the statement they have given. However, the statement is erroneous and totally or grossly inadequate. You have heard the Senator saying that
contains two chemical drugs, cathine and cathinone which is not correct. I have a report done by the British Home Office as late as July 2011. This report is a major study of miraa that reviews all the research that has been done on that subject. The report concludes that miraa does not contain cathinone, but contains cathine which is not a dangerous drug. Since the Government seems not to have read this, I would like to lay this report on the Table for the Government to read.
There was a law passed in 1994 by the Parliament of Kenya; The Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act, 1994. This is the one that defines what is a dangerous drug in Kenya, and what is not. This law has not been changed, amended or repealed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You have to complete. Once you leave, you are done.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That was the first one. There is number two---
Order! Those are already two clarifications. The Chairman must comment on whether he has read the report or not. The second one is about the law.
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will allow, but not now; it can wait. Secondly, the purported ban of miraa by the British Government is contrary to the law and to medical and scientific evidence as stated in the report that I have just tabled. Indeed, the Minister herself said that her own Advisory Council of Drugs, had not advised on the ban on miraa. Since that ban is illegal and miraa producers are organizing themselves to file a case in London to challenge the Minister’s illegal ban, could the Senate Leader of Majority inform this House whether the Government will support miraa farmers to file the case in the UK just as it did in supporting the Mau Mau file their case in the UK? Finally, since it is the fundamental root of every Government to protect the fundamental interests of its citizens, what is the Government doing to protect miraa farmers in Meru whose economy is on the verge of collapse? We are going to be driven into poverty as the taskforce goes to work. We do not know how long it will take. I would like to now be informed by the emeritus Attorney-General Amos Wako.
Order, Sen. Murungi! It is only the Chair who allocates time. You can only allow to be informed during your time. You cannot exhaust your time and allow others to inform you. Who is Sen. Wako informing? You have already exhausted your time. So, we will get someone else.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to plead with you because Sen. Amos Wako is the longest serving Attorney-General in the Commonwealth. He knows more than anybody else. Therefore, I think it is in the interest of this country to allow him to inform us about the legality of this ban. This is just a plea.
While I appreciate your plea, we do not change Standing Orders on the basis of pleadings. For all the reasons you have suggested, Sen. Amos Wako has 101 ways available to him to inform the House, but definitely, not through you.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank the Chairman, Sen. Haji, for that response. I come from Mandera County. We are consumers and not producers of miraa. I would really be surprised if anybody came here and said that miraa is not a drug. Miraa is a drug and the worst possible form of drug. Anybody who has eaten miraa cannot issue that statement. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, you are not Sen. Haji. You should seek a clarification, but not to put a statement to the House. Seek the clarification in an appropriate manner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek a clarification on these grounds. The reasons that the UK Government, the Netherlands and all other Governments, including our own National Agency for the Campaign against Drug Abuse (NACADA), gave for calling for the ban of miraa was that it was socially harmful and that it is a drug. I would like to seek a clarification from Sen. Haji on whether, indeed, the reasons for banning are not economic, but the effects it has on the health of families and individuals? Could he clarify that? That is the main reason it was banned, but not because of economic reasons.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it true that chewing
, having been assumed to have negative health effects, is not in any way different from smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol that is smoked and drunk in large amounts in the UK? Would that be the only reason why we should ban an innocent stimulant in the UK which is not different from the caffeine that you find in coffee? This is not different from mukombero .
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you may conclude.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a promoter of African culture and, indeed, it is not only in the culture of the Ameru that we have this kind of unique herb, but also amongst us; the people of Western province, who have a stimulant in the name of mukombero . If the Government does not come out, all our men will die because they rely on mukombero during difficult days.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairman, Sen. Haji, tell us the actual scientific name for miraa ? Could he also give us a list of the documented or purported side effects of miraa ? Is it true that included in the side effects are reduction of sexual drive, enhancing of peptic ulcers and, therefore, cancer and insomnia, which is loss of sleep?
Except for the rest, the one of the scientific name is not a clarification. So, you may wish to ignore it. You clarify an issue that was raised in the Statement. The issue of the scientific name had not been a subject of the Statement. Sen. Muthama!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come from Eastern Province and have a great interest in this matter. Miraa was consumed from the day Kenya became a nation. Why was that chemical analysis not done before Kenyans started consuming it? Why is it being done now? The Kenyan Government has not imposed this ban. Sen. Haji is actually telling us that the analysis that was done in the UK is what Kenya is going to abide by. Is he really in order to tell us that what was stated by the UK; that miraa is not a substance The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! You have made your point. Sen. Wako!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I want to state here that it is I, as the Attorney General, in 1994, who crafted that Act and moved it in Parliament, and it was enacted. At that time, we had to get the latest list of prohibited drugs from World Health Organization (WHO) and similar organizations. Miraa was not one of them. Secondly, somebody during the Second Reading in the National Assembly, I believe that it was somebody from Nyanza, tried to move an amendment to include miraa on the reasons now being stated. But I opposed. I said that it was not scientific enough for it to be a prohibited drug. But I want to tell you that there is one person to whom the Meru people should be very grateful. When the Member of Parliament from Nyanza stood up to say that they should include miraa, one Mr. Kalweo jumped up and ran from the Government side to the Opposition side and almost attacked that Member of Parliament. He asked him: “Do you want to kill my people?” That was the end of that. But what I wanted to---
Order! Order, Sen. Wako! That kind of information is not useful to this House. I do not want my Senators to be crossing the Floor and attacking others.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with you. He was found out of order by the then Speaker. In fact, he was thrown out of the House for the rest of the afternoon. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is what I want to inform Sen. Haji and it may be useful. Some of those substances, including even cocaine and other drugs, which are prohibited under that Act, actually with the developments in Europe and other developed counties, are now being found to be useful for purposes of medicine. Some of those countries that are prohibiting miraa, like the Netherlands, parts of Germany, Scandinavian countries and so on, actually can take those drugs, but in a controlled atmosphere. There are places where you can go and take them. So, is it in order---
On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will accept the information.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. Wako that miraa is not banned in the Netherlands because it is a dangerous drugs. It is banned in the Netherlands because it is said to encourage loitering and littering in the city. But as the report says, there is no country which has banned miraa on any scientific evidence.
Order! The two of you, Senator for Meru and Senator for Busia, cannot be informing each other all the time. Sen. Wako, I have been quite generous to you given all the accolades that you were given by the Senator for Meru. I think that you have exceeded now my generosity. Just conclude and resume your seat.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for that generosity. I was trying to ensure that it is done before I complete and that is why I rushed. Had I sat there and everything was completed, you would have ruled me out of order. It is precisely because of the reasons the Senator for Meru has given that I think that miraa should not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Sen. Haji, first, I want to confirm that the document tabled by Sen. Kiraitu Murungi is not acceptable within the Parliamentary way in which we accept documents. Sen. Kiraitu is a senior Parliamentarian in many respects. Apart from a small top page of Home Office, the document must be authored by somebody who must also sign it. There must be some ownership of the document. So, this is just a good study for those ones who are interested. But the document is inadmissible for our purposes of debate. So, I would urge the Chair of the Committee to ignore it.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The world has changed. There is a lot of technology. This document is now available through the internet and the Government can access it. So, requiring us to go to England to get a signed document, for this day and age, is really not appropriate. The document is authentic. I think that time has come for us to look at those practices.
Order! Sen. Murungi, you are only making your case worse. Your own Speaker was part of the team that amended the Communications Act. We actually included soft copies. So, all you need is to produce the website, so that we know the source. There has been a previous ruling even in the last Parliament to that effect. So, it is you who needs to change. You do not need to go to London. Just know how to submit documents to Parliament. Let us proceed, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the question raised by my worthy friend, Sen. Murungi as to whether miraa contains cathinone or not, I am neither a scientist nor a doctor. So, I am not able to answer. But the answer that was given to me is that it does contain it. Notwithstanding all those things, the taskforce that will be appointed will give people - both the growers and members of the public who feel the side effects of miraa - the opportunity to go and give their views when the time comes. Therefore, I will appeal that we should give the taskforce time to do its job. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as to the side effects of miraa, I do not know whether those who spoke did so from experience. Those who have that experience will appear before the taskforce and tell it what they know about miraa. Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the issue raised by Dr. Machage, I will not answer directly. I do not know whether he has chewed miraa before to be able to ask these questions. Again, I will urge that we give time to the taskforce to be able to answer those questions. Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding Sen. Wako’s Bill of 1994, I feel rather intimidated when he says that one Member jumped from one corner to the other. I am sure that I will not fight with my brother, Sen. Murungi. Therefore, I think that I should be spared, because I have some experience also about these things. As the person answering the question, I do not want to mix my own experience and what the experts think about it. Let us wait until the taskforce comes into being. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give a Statement that was asked by the Senator for Meru regarding the Government position on Chekariga-Tunai-Mitunguu- Meru Town Road. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator had asked who the contractor is. The contractor of the above project is Intex Construction Company Limited; and the commencement date of the project was 18th June, 2012. The completion date is 17th December, 2014; a 30- month contract period. The contract sum is Kshs4,677,635,582. So far, the contractor has been paid Kshs837,786,982, which is about 17 per cent of the contract sum. The Government has budgeted Kshs450 million for this road in this financial year. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the scope of the work and progress is as follows. The new road will have a carriageway of 6.1 metres width and 1.5 metres wide shoulders. The side ditch shall be trapezoidal with invert levels being at least 1.0 and below the road formation level. The works contract of the road project has been divided into two sections. In terms of progress, the contractor has mobilized the engineers on the road. Within the road, the accommodation of the resident engineer, his senior and junior staff has been arranged on rental basis at Mitunguu, Nkubu and Meru by the contractor, and are furnished and occupied. The eight project vehicles were supplied as required; one station wagon and a four wheel drive twin cab pickup are being used by the Kenya National Highways Authority (KENHA). The rest are used by the resident engineer’s staff. The station wagon used by the resident engineer and which had an accident and one four wheel drive twin cab pick-up that broke down have both been replaced. In terms of materials, the contractor’s existing quarry site is at kilometres 24 plus 800 LHS adjacent to the road. This is currently in use. A new quarry has been identified at kilometre 64 plus 020 RHS. Aggregates have also been sourced at the Intex Quarry in Isiolo. The material sites in use for fills are kilometre 49 plus 970 LHS, kilometre 63 plus 300 RHS and kilometre 63 plus 500 LHS. Materials of sub-base are at kilometre 53 plus 800 LHS and kilometre 65 plus 250 RHS. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to the payments, as I said, I know that the Government has delayed in terms of disbursing the money. Therefore, that is why the contractor is a bit slow. But I also know that the contractor has not done his work. I believe that by September, the Government will have given the contractor the amount that he needs to continue with the work. The Statement is signed by Eng. M.S.M. Kamau, the Cabinet Secretary.
The Senator for Meru.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank you. I was actually trying to help the Senate Majority Leader because this road is in his county and the progress is extremely slow. But let me thank the Government, through the Chief Whip, for the information that they have given us. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have only two concerns; one, that the progress being made by the contractor is extremely slow and I think there is need for it to be accelerated. On the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Is there any other request for clarification? Yes, Sen. Karaba? Let us take all requests for clarification so that you can take all of them at a go, Sen. Elachi.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much. Roads of this nature are not only in Meru. We have roads which are taking too long to be completed. Some of them have even taken 20 years. I know you are aware that there is a road from Sagana-Kutus- Kerugoya-Karatina which has been under construction for the last three years. What happened is that culverts are put, and within a week, they are removed. They put soil in one patch and after a week, they remove it and put quarry waste. That is the practice and exercise for that road and many other roads. Can we urge the Ministry of Roads, through the Chief Whip, to make sure that once road construction is started, it is completed on schedule?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to say that the Government, through KENHA, indeed, is committed. As for the Mitunguu Road, the Government will be making the next disbursement of funds on the 17th of July, 2013. In fact, I believe, he will be getting his money today as per the records. In terms of the period that the contractor was given, within the agreements of the contract, the contractor has not been given any extension time. I believe he understands that he has to finish the road by 2014. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have three different contractors of roads within the Government institution. We have KENHA in charge of highways. The Cabinet Secretary is, indeed, the same person who worked on roads in the last Government. Therefore, I know that he is a committed Cabinet Secretary and there is no doubt he will deliver as he has promised. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Halima. LACK OF CCTV CAMERAS IN MAJOR CITIES
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As you know last week on Thursday, I sought a Statement from the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations and he promised to give it today. I want to know why he has not given my Statement as promised. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
That is correct; the Statement was on lack of CCTV cameras in major cities, especially Nairobi. Where is Sen. Haji? Sen. Elachi, Sen. Haji could answer for everybody else and not for himself!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will look for the Chairman. But indeed, I will also give a commitment to the Senator that he will answer to the House within one week. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
There was also a Statement which was sought by the Senator for Meru on the Provision of Security to County Assembly Speakers, which should be a fairly straightforward matter. PROVISION OF SECURITY TO COUNTY ASSEMBLY SPEAKERS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that the issue of county assemblies is not only of concern to this House, but the whole country. We know every State Officer who works in a situation like the County Assmbly Speakers need security. Therefore, the Government very soon will be deploying the security officers to all country assembly speakers.
Sen. Elachi, House Business must be taken very seriously. The issue of all of us knowing is too obvious; a Statement was sought on 4th July and the Senate Majority Leader made a commitment that it will be due on 11th July. So, we wanted a full response. If you did not have it, it is just good to ask for some more time. But just to come here and say “it is important; we know; we will do it---” That was the purpose of the request for the Statement. We wanted to know why you have not done it. Let us hear from the one who sought the Statement, the Senator for Meru.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The HANSARD will bear me out. Today was the deadline for these three Statements to be delivered. I had sought statements on the road, miraa and the security for the speakers of county assemblies in the 47 counties. The first two have been answered. However, I do not know how he can forget the most important of them all, which is the security for the speakers of the county assemblies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we did emphasized that even DCs and DOs are having security. I, therefore, do not understand why important county assembly officials like the speakers could not be provided with two administration police officers when there are administration police officers all over. We need a very specific answer on this issue. I know the Senate Leader of Majority is in his office. Can he be asked to come and answer?
First of all, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senate Majority Leader is not in his office. I know he was called for an important meeting. That is why he is not here. But I want to say that we will give a conclusive answer on Thursday, next week, on this issue. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Tiole Ndiema. RISING CASES OF INSECURITY IN TRANS NZOIA COUNTY
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also asked for a Statement on the Security Situation in Trans Nzoia.
Yes, you did, but yours is due next week. Yes, Sen. Murungi?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can you help us by expressing yourself in the strongest terms possible on this matter?
Sen. Elachi, what did you respond to for the CCTVs?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think that my party leader today has a bone of contention with the Senate Majority leader. I have just said very clearly that on Thursday, the Government and the Senate Majority Leader in this House will give a conclusive answer on this matter.
Sen. Elachi, it is not that your party leader has any bone of contention with the Senate Majority Leader. Indeed, the fact that you are the Chief Whip already means that there is no bone of contention. The issue that Sen. Murungi and many other Senators are raising, and which the Chair wants to underscore, is that Statements are sought on the Floor of this House, Chairs make commitments on when they will bring them and we have always been generous that you would even request a week or two weeks. Usually, at the very beginning, we have no problem with giving you whatever time you wanted. But once you commit yourself, the honorable thing to do is to deliver the commitment. If you cannot, the House is entitled to know why. So, I think what we are objecting to, one, is for the responsible Chairs or the Senate Majority Leader basically to disappear and, then, he sends you and you have no answer or apologies to make. For you, it is just a continuation; you are just seeking extension of time without any explanation. Surely, the Chair cannot allow that to happen. This is a House of hon. Senators where they represent counties and their people. So, we demand answers and answers must be given when they are supposed to be given. I think Sen. Murungi, that is strong enough!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, my apologies. Regarding the Statement I have given today, I want to commit myself and I will follow up.
Good. Hon. Senators, the other Statement which is due--- I thought there was some communication, especially for the one for Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo; the Chairs were here, but they did not see it. So, they actually sought leave from the Chair to leave. So, we have agreed about next week. Let us take the last one from the Deputy Senate Leader of Majority. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY 23RD JULY, 2013 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, hon. Senators, pursuant to the provisions of S.O. No.43(2), this is to present to the Senate the Business of the coming week. The Rules and Business Committee will meet on Tuesday, 23rd July, 2013 at 12.00 p.m. to schedule business of the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday, 23rd July, 2013. The Senate will continue with business on today’s Order Paper that will not have been concluded. The Senate will also commence debate on a Motion by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o calling upon the Registrar of Political Parties to release funds to political parties and Sen. Kagwe’s Motion on enhancing the capacity of county assemblies and equipping them with the necessary tools. On Wednesday 24th July, 2013, in the morning sitting, the Senate will continue with business that was not concluded on Tuesday 23rd July, 2013. The Senate will also commence debate on a Motion by Sen. Nobwola concerning rising cases of patient mistreatment, negligence and professional malpractice by medical personnel in public and private health institutions in Kenya. In the afternoon sitting, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday morning. The Senate will also consider the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, Senate Bill, Bill No.1 of 2013, Clause by Clause in the Committee of the Whole. On Thursday, 25th July, 2013, the Senate will continue with business not concluded on Wednesday afternoon and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. I hereby lay the Statement on the Table.
Good. Next Order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of S.O. No. 123, the Senate resolves that the publication period of the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill, 2013, be reduced from fourteen days to thirteen days. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Bill comes at a time when we know we have confusion in terms of protocol, when we know that within the Constitution we do not have some of the names we hear today. There is confusion, especially when you look at how the governors behave in the counties and the citizens are confused about what is happening. It is important that the Senate now puts things in order and assists the citizens to understand the respect that we have given to different emblems that we have in our Constitution and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of order, Sen. Kajwang?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have listened to the reasons advanced by the Deputy Senate Majority Leader as to why we should approve the reduction of the publication period from 14 to 13 days, but I heard her only state how important this Bill is and how urgent it is. But I did not see the reason why we must reduce the days by one day. I thought that would be the explanation we require so that we make up our minds whether to accept it or not.
Maybe that was delegated to the Seconder. Your point will still be valid after hearing the Seconder of this Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Procedural Motion. We do not need to re-emphasize the need for us to comply with the Constitution because we have said that this House is a House that is guided by the Constitution and the rule of law. There is urgency and importance in this matter. This is a reduction of only one day. It is really inconsequential and immaterial. The purpose of publication is for public input and I think within 13 days that have been availed, all the necessary input and participation will have had ample opportunity and, therefore, there will be no major public prejudice towards reducing the publication period by just one day. I beg to second.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I still stand on a point of order that I earlier raised. Even the eminent hon. Sen. Murungi, the King of Meru, has not explained why one day should be reduced, other than saying that one day is a short time. What is it? What is the urgency that makes us alter our rules by reducing the time by one day? That has not come out clearly. Maybe you could just rule that they have not convinced us and then we conclude.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, based on the business that we have, I plead with the House because I know we are about to go for recess. Therefore, I request that we reduce it by one day.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Should we allow Sen. Kajwang to abuse the Standing Orders of this House by making comments that he should be making in his contribution under the disguise of a point of order? Whatever he has to say, he should say it in his contribution.
Indeed, I want to agree completely with Sen. Murungi that the issue canvassed by the Leader of Delegation from Homa Bay County does not warrant a ruling from the Chair. Was it just a point of order for purposes of some mischief in the procedure or some misleading information being given by the Proposer and Seconder of the Motion? What Sen. Kajwang is trying to do is argue that he is not satisfied. You are allowed, but that should form an opinion on whether you want to support the Bill or not, but it is not a breach of the Standing Orders. He even went further to request the Chair to rule that he is not convinced so the Motion should not proceed. That is not for the Chair, but for the membership of this House to decide. So, I will do my The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Procedural Motion for only one reason, in addition to the ones that have been advanced: This House is aware that this matter, in a sort of reverse way, appeared to come up in the National Assembly and the main accusation was that the Senate was sleeping on the job. If we discharge this matter with the speed being suggested today, then our junior brothers in the lower House will realize that we are up to the task. I support.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I accept your ruling, which is the correct ruling, only that I am not convinced that we should reduce the time for publication from 14 days to 13 days, without any proper justification. There is some very good wisdom in why we fixed the publication period at 14 days. It gives the stakeholders time to read, analyze, comment, advise us, write to us and so on. So, for that reason, the 14 days have always been the custom and not only customary, but also procedural in our Standing Orders. So, to reduce them, you must have a very good reason. Not that we are sleeping on our job because we are not and not that this is urgent because it is not, at least, there must be a reason. We are being watched by students of debate in universities and secondary schools. They might be asking the reason advanced by the Senate Majority Whip for reduction of time by one day. It must be really persuasive. I have listened carefully and I think we should stick to our rules. I thought the Senate Majority Whip was going to say something like this. That this is the last sitting day of the week and that the next sitting day is Tuesday. So, if it is read today, the time will start running and maybe convince us to deal with it before we go home on recess; something like that. But to come here and try to persuade us without convincing us, is not right. I oppose.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, apart from expression of mischief, this Motion has no purpose. Really, if there was a serious matter in terms of reduction of the number of days, then we would talk about reducing by a whole week so that the Motion is debated in good time. However, giving a token of only a day to, please, the Mover of the Motion and show the period has been shortened is not good enough.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is my medical senior in order to suggest that this is an attempt to, please, the Mover when the logic is as follows: The publication day was on 5th July. If you add 14 days, that means that it matures on 19th. However, if you add 13 days, it matures on 18th which is today. If you look at the Order Paper, you will see that if this Motion goes through, then the Bill will be due for First Reading today. We are, merely, making the House tidy. This is not a question of pleasing the Mover. Is he in order to suggest that they are pleasing me?
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, let me dispose of that first. I do not see any anomalies in your senior suggesting that the days are being reduced to please you. That is his opinion. It is up to you to give a contrary opinion.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Indeed, my junior colleague who is professionally very qualified and eloquent in this House should desist from taking small tokens like one day. He is worth more than that. We know that there is a problem with titles. Some people have addressed Governors as; His Excellency and His Majesty. Some have even referred to someone as
. If the purpose is to save them from that title in one day, then there might be some justification to this. However, I think that this Motion is taking this House for a ride because a request has been made to reduce the number of days on this Motion. That difference of 24 hours is insignificant. I beg to oppose.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to oppose this Procedural Motion. The reasons being advanced are not reasonable. Standing Order No.123 says that should the Senate want to amend from 14 days to a shorter period--- I stand to be corrected by Sen. Murungi because as we learnt in the School of Law, this has to be reasonable. The reasons that have been advanced are not reasonable. We have just been told that reducing the days by one day does not make a difference. So, if we made them 14, this would not also make a difference. I join the sentiments expressed by the Leader of Delegation from Homa Bay, the Leader of Delegation from Migori and oppose this.
Bw. Spika, nashukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii. Mimi nikiwa Seneta wa Tana River sina pingamizi yoyote juu ya Hoja hii. Naunga mkono Hoja hii kwa sababu mambo ya siku moja ni tofauti na ya siku nyingine. Hata madakika huwa yanatofautiana. Mhe. Seneta aliyezungumza mbele yangu alisema siku moja haiwezi kuleta tofauti yoyote. Siku moja inaweza kuleta mabadaliko. Hata dakika moja inaweza kuleta mabadiliko. Wale ambao wameseme siku moja ipunguzwe katika Hoja hii walilenga kuonyesha wakati una umuhimu wake. Upishi haufai kuendelea kila wakati. Tusiwe tunapinga mambo kila siku. Siku moja ikipunguzwa, tunaweza kuitumia kufanya mambo mengine muhimu. Ni lazima tuwe waangalifu wa wakati. Wakati ni muhimu.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Given that this is a Procedural Motion; considering that we have a very important Bill to discuss this afternoon, the County Allocation of Revenue Bill; would I be in order to ask that you put this matter to rest, vote on it and take a decision instead of spending time debating on whether we should shorten the period or not?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to join my colleagues who are trying to find out why we are reducing the days from 14 to 13. The Mover of the Motion did not do some consultations because if she did, then she would have been told that we are reducing the days so that we move to the First Reading. If we are moving to the First Reading, then I see no problem. However, nobody The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Members. Before I put the question, arising from the intervention by Sen. Khaniri, this is a Procedural Motion. Therefore, we should dispose of it. However, owing to the interest in terms of the opposing and supporting views, it is important, under those circumstances to allow a bit of ventilation. That ventilation is taking us somewhere. First, I want to confirm that one day may appear insignificant to those who are particular, especially if you are a member of the medical profession where levels of confidence are higher than normal. If you recall, we passed our Senate Calendar. Therefore, we have a few days between now and the time we should be going on recess. In fact, the chief Opposer of the Motion gave a better reason. I agree completely that the Mover and the Senator destroyed their own argument. However, the Opposer gave the argument to the Mover. When you commit a Bill to the First Reading that is the time when it is formally introduced to the House and goes to the Committee. The Committee has up to 30 days. So, if we do not start on it now and dispose it off before we adjourn, considering that we also have other Business for the House, it will run late. That was the rationale of bringing the First Reading to today so that from next week, it will be before the Committee. The Committee, we have directed, should work in good speed so that it can bring its report before we discuss it. That was for clarification.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank you for quickly noting the inadequacies in the response by the Senate Majority Leader regarding the reasons for reduction of the publication period of the Bill as specified in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Karaba had the Floor and he has a remainder of 20 minutes.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. At the rise of the House yesterday, we were debating the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was trying to implore the Senators and House at large that much as we talk about revenue allocation, we should also talk about the source of the same revenue, so that we can enhance and make sure that we collect enough money from the same sources and allocate it to the various counties. We also attested that it is important not to kill the hen which lays the golden egg. At this juncture, I was able to articulate that counties which have the capability of producing enough to generate the necessary revenue, should have the national Government doing what we call protection of the same, so that they can continue generating more. We need to have this money collected. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need to have the roads along the Coast improved, so that we can have more tourists coming. This will ensure that we get more foreign exchange, which can then translate into revenue which will be allocated to the counties. In areas where we produce coffee, tea, rice and other cash crops, it is important to have roads and factories constructed. This will ensure that the commodities that are produced there are taken to domestic and international markets, through access roads, which must be maintained by the Government. In this case, I would suggest that the counties which produce these commodities and generate more revenue, like Kirinyaga County, be allocated more money, so that they can continue generating more revenue. So, the Kshs3.2 billion which has been allocated to Kirinyaga County is not enough. That is the reason we are even proposing that the Kshs210 billion which is the allocation to all counties, should be increased. Therefore, if all factors of production are to be considered, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senator for Kirinyaga in order to mislead this House that there are some counties which have allocated monies to promote sodomy? If he has information, he should table it in this House.
Sen. Karaba, do you have evidence to table?
Madam Temporary Speaker, we read about it in the newspapers.
Order! Newspapers cannot be a source of parliamentary debates in the Senate. You must withdraw that and apologize. You must make reference to facts that you can support.
On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Do you need to be informed?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I will require information from my friend, Daktari.
Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to inform the distinguished Senator from Kirinyaga that, indeed, he is right. In Bungoma County, Kshs50 million was allocated to pornography.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I need not substantiate, because---
Those are two different things, Senator. You made reference to sodomy and Sen. Khalwale is talking about pornography.
Madam Temporary Speaker, they are very much related, going by my English.
Madam Temporary Speaker, going by my English, sodomy and pornography are two very related subjects. Madam Temporary Speaker, what I am trying to suggest is that we must scrutinize the budgets that are made by the counties. This is because if we allow them to go the way they want, it means that every other time we will increase their allocations and this money will be misused. In the end, that money will not go to meet the desired The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill; the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, I speak with a very heavy heart, because this is a case where we, as a Senate, are caught between a hard place and a rock. As we all know, very much as we can justify that the amounts being allocated to the counties must be substantially increased, in this Bill we cannot do that because the cake is given. That cake is given under the Division of Revenue Bill. As you know, this House is challenging the unconstitutionality of the procedures leading to the assent of that Bill by His Excellency the President. We are, in fact, saying that it was completely wrong, constitutionally, legally, morally or otherwise, for the role of the Senate, which is set out very clearly under our Constitution, in respect of that very Bill, to have been completely frivolously left out by the National Assembly. It was wrong for the National Assembly not to have considered what the Senate had done, in respect of that Bill. It was wrong for the Speaker of the National Assembly, having agreed that this is a Bill concerning the county governments, to have changed his mind without even the courtesy of informing this Senate formally. He changed his mind from what he had originally told this Senate. So, it is with that heavy heart that I rise to contribute to this Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, obviously, our discussion on this Bill is completely without prejudice to the case that we have filed in court, challenging the Division of Revenue Bill. We are doing so because we respect the Constitution and law. As the saying goes, whether or not, you like the law, you must respect it. So, for as long as the Division of Revenue Bill is the law, to the extent that the Head of State assented to it, until it is declared unconstitutional by the court or otherwise amended properly, we have to proceed on the basis of the allocation given in totality to the counties, which we are now going to share out under this County Allocation of Revenue Bill. I wanted to make that clear, because there should be no misunderstanding whatsoever that we are somehow, in any way, compromising our case which is before the court. We are just doing so because of the fact that, that law is still law and has not yet been declared unconstitutional. Madam Temporary Speaker, also, the counties have need for this money and are not going to be given anything until this County Allocation of Revenue Bill has been passed. Therefore, we owe it to our constituents, the counties, to pass this Bill. But in so The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Speaker, Sir---
Order! Sen. Amos Wako, we expect you to lead us in all these matters. You cannot make that kind of a mistake.
Madam Temporary Speaker, the problem is that the Senator for Homa Bay is confusing me.
Are you implying that you are confusing me with the Senator for Homa Bay?
No, Madam Temporary Speaker. What I am implying is that I should have been looking at you rather than the Senator for Homa Bay.
Very well. Do that.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. Coming back to the Bill, my heavy heart is on that constitutional issue. My other heavy heart, Madam Temporary Speaker, is on the fact that we, as a Senate, are not really discharging our constitutional mandate by enacting this Bill. To this extent, Article 202 of the Constitution of Kenya speaks very clearly about the equitable distribution of resources between the two levels of Government. It is very, very eloquent there that our job should be to ensure an equitable distribution of resources between the two levels of Government. Then, Article 190(1) of the Constitution states that:- “Parliament shall by legislation ensure that county governments have adequate support to enable them to perform their functions.” The Parliament referred to here is the Senate. Madam Temporary Speaker, we shall enact this law, but in enacting it, I know for certain that we, as a Parliament, are not giving county governments adequate support by this legislation yet the Constitution requires us to give the counties, through legislation, adequate support. That is why when we succeed in court, we must revisit this issue for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
It is Madam Speaker!
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am sorry for my---
You are excused!
I am sorry! Madam Temporary Speaker, right now, we have different signals from the Government on what functions have been transferred to the county governments. Because sometime ago – and it was widely reported and we heard it with our own ears – communication was made in support of the fact that the Government is committed to ensuring that the county governments do operate; it was reported that all the functions had been transferred to the county governments; all of them! Then, yesterday in the morning on television and also before us, the Secretary for Devolution actually clarified that and said that what was meant by that statement was that it was the intention of the Government to transfer the functions which are set out in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution; the intention! But the actual transfer is not yet completely done. But, then, stopping there, nobody could really tell us, if it is really so, what functions have been transferred and what have not been transferred. So, right now as we are talking, we are really in the dark as to what functions have been transferred to which counties, and so on. We are really in the dark as to what costing was done in respect of those functions because, as we know, Article 15 of the Fourth Schedule clearly states that before any function is transferred, there should be a criteria which must be met by the county governments in respect of that function to show that it is able to perform those functions. When it was said that everything was transferred, that was clearly in contradiction to the articles of the Constitution. When it was said that it was an intention and some functions had been transferred, we do not know!
So, without knowing what functions have been transferred, when and where; without knowing the costing, how can we honestly know that the amount of money that we are now allocating is adequate? How can we know? Yet it is our responsibility to ensure that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Senator for Marsabit County; Sen. Hargura Godana.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Bill. This is a very important Bill. It is the first one which will get our counties moving and it is also the first Bill we are discussing here. Therefore, it is very important for us. It is also the first County Allocation of Revenue Bill we are doing, so it matters how we take off on this Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, Clause 6 of this Bill talks about it being based on functions which have been gazetted or which the Transitional Authority has transferred to the county governments. I am not aware of any gazette notice that gives the functions which have been devolved to the county governments. So, the Mover needs to tell us whether there is any gazette notice so that we can base our arguments on it. The only information we have is where the President says that all the functions have been devolved. Madam Temporary Speaker, my question to the Mover would have been; what was used to determine that this Kshs198 billion we are discussing is enough to meet the functions of the county governments if all of them have been devolved. If you look at Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, most of the functions of the Government have actually gone to the county governments. The national Government remains with foreign affairs, security, defence, education and policy issues in some sectors. I am even The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill. I would like to begin by flagging off and highlighting one issue. I would like to inform my colleagues at the Senate that, indeed, our discussion and subsequent passage of this Bill is flagging ourselves to take on the most important journey and mandate of this House as bestowed upon us by the Constitution in Article 96. That is the role of oversight. It is also worth noting that in the role of oversight, we will need a clear roadmap and guidance to execute it effectively as it is expected of us by the electorate. Before I The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators! This is a very important Bill and I would wish that all of us speak to it. The members of the various counties are eagerly waiting to hear what the Senators have to say about this. So, I wish to seek leave of the House that we reduce the time allotted to each speaker to a maximum of 12 minutes, so that all of us can speak to this Bill. Going by the silence, I take it that you are in agreement. Instead of having only two Senators speak, let us have as many Senators as possible. We can reduce the time to 15 minutes instead of 30 minutes. Is that reasonable? Senator for Kakamega, take note that the time is now reduced by half.
Madam Temporary Speaker, in the same spirit as those who spoke before me, I want to start with a disclaimer, that my support for this Bill is not tantamount to support of the devalued allocation, from Kshs258 billion to Kshs210 billion, as was done by the National Assembly. I, therefore, rise to support the exercise of horizontal division of revenue amongst our counties, but oppose the process that was used to arrive at the sharable revenue. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to reiterate that counties deserve Kshs258 billion and not Kshs210 billion, as contained in the Division of Revenue Act. If passed without amendments, the Bill before the House this afternoon will be a great shocker to county governments. In fact, if you analyze these figures, it is only Kshs168 billion out of the Kshs210 billion that will be available to our governors to share out. Madam Temporary Speaker, why do I say this? I would like to draw your attention on the matrix on pages 6 and 7. There is a column called Conditional Allocations. If you look at the sum total under that column, you will find that it amounts to Kshs43.9 billion. If you subtract Kshs43.9 billion from Kshs210 billion, you will remain with only about Kshs166 billion. This is because the balance of Kshs43.9 billion is not available to our governors. Yes, this is money which will be taken to the counties, but it is going to be used so as not to disrupt the current functions of regional referral hospitals where they are and other health facilities. If you compute this, it, therefore, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to impute by his statement that 39 communities out of 42 communities have been left out of all the appointments of Principal Secretaries? That is implying that only two communities have been appointed to the positions, and he knows that, that is not the correct position. Is he in order to mislead the House? The truth is out there that the people who have been appointed as Principal Secretaries are not from three communities. It is important for this House to uphold not only the truth, but also dignity, by making sure that the statements that we make can also be substantiated and upheld in principle and truth.
Madam Temporary Speaker, this is why I started by pleading with my colleague Senators that this is without prejudice. You know, in Luo and Luhya culture, a woman belongs where she is married. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to speak to the issue of favouritism in this particular Bill. If you look at---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Are you satisfied that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has substantiated his statement, as required by my colleague, Sen. Wamatangi?
I thought that he was in the process of still elaborating. Can you substantiate that and then proceed?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I had substantiated in very few words, and there is a rule in debate that a Member should not be repetitive. Your point of order is attempting to repeat what Sen. Wamatangi said and, therefore, it is null and void.
It is not upon you to give that verdict. Proceed with your contribution.
Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for the indulgence. Madam Temporary Speaker, when I was campaigning, in fact, I used to say: “I am going to the Senate and will be there with James Orengo, Anyang’-Nyong’o, Otieno Kajwang’, Kiraitu and Chris Obure.” I never said that I will be there with Senators from that tribe or this tribe. I looked at these people as men and women of integrity, who would come here and refuse to shortchange any community in this country. Look at this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Senator for Kiambu, we will give you your last point of order. Because we have now reduced the contributing time, let us allow people to debate. Please, stick to referring us to the point of order and not to contributing.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be very brief, but it is also important that the statements that are made here by Senators must be statements of fact. They should be statements that when one chooses to make them, as a Senator, he can refer to them and they can also be believed by the country. Now, when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale says that Kakamega is more populous than Kiambu; he intentionally knows that he is not stating a fact as a Senator in this country. Kiambu is more populous than Kakamega!
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, which documents are you making reference to?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to urge Sen. Wamatangi to take the trouble and do a bit of research. I wish to table, for your information, a document from the then Ministry of Planning and National Development that announced the population of Kenya, which shows the ten most populous counties in Kenya. It is as follows; Nairobi has 3.1 million; Kakamega - 1,660,000; Bungoma at number three has 1,630,000; number four is Kiambu with 1,623,000 and number five is Nakuru with 1,603,000 people. It is factual! I am not a tribalist; please, understand me. My tag in campaigns – just like you are called Mr. Wamatangi – I am called mtetezi wawanyonge ; wanyonge wa Kakamega, Kiambu, and everywhere, including Gatundu.
Honorable Senator, you have to sustain your debate fully.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have tabled an authentic document here showing the population spread in Kenya to prove this.
(Spoke off record) The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you. But since you were challenging me, I had to prove it. I do not want you to create enemies out of your community towards me.
Address the Chair, Senator!
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The other sensitive issue about this population which was used to arrive at these figures – and I want to beg some of my colleagues from the north eastern part of the country and even Turkana--- We have counties like Mandera and Wajir which, in the population report, they were forced to go to court. Why was that? It is because the Government nullified the population results because they were inconsistent with the reality of the demographic forces that govern population. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is sad that – when we are then informed by this population in Mandera and Wajir – Mandera should get Kshs5.6 billion compared to Bungoma, which gets only Kshs4.9 billion! If we are really Senators of Kenya, we must also do affirmative action to the people of Mandera because of the poverty and do affirmative action to the people of Bungoma because of their large population. The same applies to Vihiga, which has got a paltry Kshs2.5 billion as opposed to Mandera and Wajir, which have got Kshs5.6 billion and Kshs4.7 billion respectively. I want to beg honorable Senators to take time and look at this matrix. This matrix speaks for itself. Madam Temporary Speaker, there is the case of the conditional allocation – money which is assumed to go to promote health services. Kakamega has been given Kshs1.4 billion; Kiambu, Kshs2.6 billion; Nyeri, Kshs3.7 billion; Murang’a, Kshs1.5 billion; Nakuru, Kshs2.6 billion; Kisumu, Kshs1.97 billion and Mombasa, Kshs2.6 billion. The reason I am giving these figures is because I want to expose the mischief that this conditional allocation is attempting to allow people in the Treasury to give money to undeserving counties. Take the example of Nyeri; Nyeri is being given Kshs3.7 billion as a conditional allocation to go, presumably, towards the Provincial General Hospital. I am a doctor of medicine; I know the health infrastructure in this country and there is no way the former Nyeri Provincial General Hospital can be said to be bigger than Mombasa Provincial General Hospital or Russia Hospital in Kisumu. Nyeri should have trailed this! What is more, if the reason why they are giving Kshs3.7 billion to Nyeri is because of the current ongoing construction of the Nyeri Teaching and Referral Hospital, then there should have been total disclosure as to how much money from donor funding is going to this hospital. You cannot favor one hospital as if people only get sick in one corner of the country as opposed to the others! This is why the Senate is there, and I am going to die defending social justice in this country; just like I would die if injustice is being visited on anybody. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to now go to the issue of utilization of these funds when they go to these counties. It is my collective shame, together with my neighbours, Otieno Kajwang, James Orengo, Prof. Anyang’Nyong’o, that governors of Luhya and Luo counties are bringing us great shame. They are the ones who are leading in spending on unhelpful and unnecessary projects. I want to beg them – and I would not be surprised if the Senator of Nakuru says so; because if you behave like that, it means you think that you are rich; they are not rich! They are rich with big stomachs, but they have poverty of ideas! These neighbours and brothers of mine are busy spending on The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mothers’ milk is best!
Yes, a mother’s milk is best. Even Sen. Orengo knows this because he is a father of many!
Madam Temporary Speaker, the issue of wrong priorities is so painful that in Kakamega, where we do not have a shortage of land for the former municipal or county council; in fact, we have too much land. In Shikusa alone, we have 2,000 acres that is being used by prisons to feed all prisoners in Kenya. if the Governor can go ahead and allocate Kshs150 million for buying land so as to construct the county headquarters when we already have the former Provincial Commissioner’s (PCs) premises that he can only move in tomorrow morning and occupy; he can go to the former PCs residence and move in. If he does not want the former PCs headquarters, he can go to the former municipal council headquarters or the former Kakamega County Council Headquarters, which are there and they are not in use. But they want to put up a facility using Kshs150 million so as to squander it! Madam Temporary Speaker, the issue of ego-trips--- It is so unfortunate that the logic of calling facilitators in a particular workshop so that they talk to members of the county assemblies is lost. It is lost to our governors to the extent that 50 members of the County Assembly of Machakos are being sent to South Africa at the cost of the county government. Fifty members of the County Assembly of Nakuru are being taken to Uganda at the cost of the county government. Fifty members of the Nairobi County Assembly are now in the process of working on passports because they want to go to the United States of America (USA). We cannot support this, if, indeed, we are as provided in the Constitution, charged with the responsibility of protecting the interests of the counties. We must say no to the Governor of Nakuru, to the Governor of Machakos, the Governor of Nairobi and others who might be tempted to do the same. The case of luxury residences - why would Governor Kidero set aside over Kshs200 million to put up a Governor’s house? Why would Governor Oparanya set aside The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this very important Bill which touches on the allocation of revenue to our counties. The Bill before us states the amount that the National Treasury has allocated to counties as Kshs198 billion. When we look at the Bill and compare this amount to what the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) had approved, there is a very big variance. The CRA had approved Kshs231.1 billion for the year 2013/2014. This is a constitutional body that is mandated to determine and approve revenue for counties and they have the parameters. The National Treasury does not have the parameters. So, the figure of Kshs198.7 billion approved by the National Treasury does not have a basis because we do not know how the figure was arrived at. When we go into the details regarding the figures they have approved, the sharable income of Kshs154 billion to the counties is not sufficient. The CRA has approved Kshs251 billion, why would the National Treasury under-cut the counties? This is setting counties to fail. We have also been told elsewhere that counties are saying that they are not ready to take on the functions. It is our duty as Senators as we sit here, because each and every Senator here represents a county, so we should ensure that this money, however little it is, is devolved to the counties. We are already being told that some counties are not ready to take on the functions because they do not have capacity. This is something that the Transitional Authority (TA) should have put in place way back. So, we do not know why it is coming up this last minute. This makes us question whether there is political will to devolve functions to the counties. Madam Temporary Speaker, when you also look at the Bill before us, Clause 6 says that the functions gazetted by the TA for transfer to the county governments in accordance with Section 23 of the Transition to Devolved Government Act shall form the basis for preparing the relevant county governments estimates of revenue and expenditure for the financial year 2013/2014. We, as Senators, have never seen the functions that were gazetted. We have not been given that as an appendix. That is what I expected whoever dished out this document to do, so that as we discuss and allocate these funds, we know what we are doing. Some of us have not seen the budgets for the various counties. How do you determine allocation when you do not know what you are allocating? Madam Temporary Speaker, the National Treasury has also omitted the word “harmless” in this Bill. We saw earlier that when we allocate the Kshs198 billion, some The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. From the outset, I want my concerns to be very clear. For sure, our counties are looking upon us as Senators. The amendment we made to the previous Bill where we raised the minimum amount to be given to counties to Kshs258 billion is not the one we are discussing here. However, we want to be obedient to the law because this was signed into law. We will, however, support it with amendments. My concern is very clear. The people of Kajiado are waiting to see whether the Jubilee Government will deliver what it promised to the people of this country. We know very well that for the economy of this country to pick very well, devolution must take place. We must take money down to the grassroots. We must make sure that development takes root in our counties. Many counties are looking at their governors and the budgets that they came up with. The budget for my county is not very bad. Even though they did not have the capacity, they tried to address issues of development. My only concern is one. Since the Transition Authority was formed, all we have seen including what the Senator for Kakamega has said are people moving from one county to another probably to benchmark or to be taught how devolution should be carried out at the county level. I am wondering, since there are no funds at the counties, what monies they are using if not the money that was set aside earlier where we are told that after it was divided, every county got Kshs61 million. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. I am not happy with the County Allocation of Revenue Bill in its present form. I am not also comfortable with the fact that this Bill has been brought for debate at this particular time. First, the functions of the counties have not been gazetted. Consideration and debate of this Bill is, therefore, not based on a solid and firm foundation. We are intending to allocate funds, purely on the assumption that they will be used to carry out certain functions that have not been specified. Secondly, we are now in the Financial Year 2013/2014. We are allocating funds based on the accounts of the Financial Year 2010/2011. This is a long time ago. In The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Prof.) Rotich Lesan.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to make my observations on the first ever Bill in this Senate. It is unfortunate that the first ever Bill being debated in the Senate is shrouded in controversies, including a case at the Supreme Court. Madam Temporary Speaker, before I make my observations, I want to take this opportunity to thank the teachers of this country for returning to the classrooms and enabling education activities to go on, thereby removing a burden from the Government so that we can concentrate on other activities. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Siaya County, Sen. Orengo.
Madam Temporary Speaker, as the previous contributor has said, I also want to say that I support the caveat that we support this Bill on the basis that there are going to be amendments and it was useful and necessary to hear the Senate Leader of Majority give us that assurance; that an appropriate time, this Bill will be amended so the allocations as contained in the Bill will be enhanced upwards. I want to start from the beginning. For devolution to work, it will require political commitment on the part of all the players and this is not just the national government, the devolved structures of the county government but all Kenyans altogether, as we decided in this new constitutional dispensation that devolution is right for the country and that is the way we have to go. For it to succeed, I want to propose and submit that it will largely depend on the county governments themselves. If the county governments do not run those devolved structures properly, that is the beginning of failure. Indeed, it has been demonstrated in other countries where there are devolved structures that there are regions which can actually do very well even when the national performance overall in the economy is below average. I want to say that for the devolved systems of government to work, the county governments themselves must get it right. To get it right and I agree with other Senators who have contributed in this regard, they must run those county The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I thought that Sen. Orengo was contributing to this Bill, but surprisingly, he is talking about the current Government that won the election. We all know that Jubilee won the election. Are we here to discuss this Government or the Bill?
What is out of order?
Madam Temporary Speaker, is he in order to discuss this Government? I thought that we were here to discuss this Bill. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your point has been noted. Sen. Orengo, proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think that if there is anybody who wants to teach me how to speak in the Chamber, you better go back to the many speakers who have been there before. You will realize that on all accounts, in terms of my contribution in this House, nobody has stood up to say that I am out of order, when I am speaking on a specific Bill like this one. The gracious lady should listen and learn how these things are done. Madam Temporary Speaker, I am saying this because just today, the IEBC could not take an oath to swear and say that the figures that they were giving at the National Assembly were correct. Some of these figures that---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senator for Siaya in order to say that since the IEBC were unable to give the results of the election, therefore, Jubilee stole the election? Are you in order?
Sen. Orengo, can you substantiate exactly what you mean by that statement?
Madam Temporary Speaker, elections are about results. Even now when we take a division at the end of the day, you will stand up and say that you have received so many votes for the Ayes and the Noes have so many votes. The IEBC also is required to give results of the elections, and it has had more than three months to do so. It is in the public domain that this Commission cannot count any figures beyond 500,000. Once they get over 500,000, they get confused. If you are Jubilee---
I am answering your point of order.
Let him exhaust the answer on your first point of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, let me finish this by saying that it is no longer in doubt that the IEBC has said that the difference between the Presidential election votes and those that were cast for Governors is a whopping 1.7 million votes. If that is the truth, it means that if these figures are wrong to the extent of 1.7 million, the issue of the last elections will never go away. We have agreed that you are in the Government, and I recognize you as a Whip, but you cannot take away my right to give my opinion that these elections were stolen.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I think that the Senator for Siaya should really tell Kenyans whether the votes that we are talking about and the people--- A total of 12 millions Kenyans woke up and voted. They decided who would win and who would lose. I know that the Senator is my senior and I am learning a lot from him---
Point out what is out of order. Do not debate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, is he in order to tell Kenyans that the six million votes that Jubilee got were just on paper and not people who voted? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, let me just finish this point by giving you one fact which you can take to the bank for free. There was one particular ballot book, which was only used by one person in Kenya, Mwai Kibaki, the former President of the Republic of Kenya, which got lost and the IEBC does not know where it went. Surely, if you want me to give more and more data on this, I can go on. Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion, listen to what Sen. Khalwale was saying - and he knows these things – that even some of the figures that have been given in terms of conditional grants, if we do not audit them very well, you will find that what was done in the elections are now being done in the division and allocation of revenue. Madam Temporary Speaker, I support.
Order, Sen. Orengo! Contributions to this debate will continue next Tuesday. So, those who have not spoken will still have an opportunity to speak.
Hon. Senators, it is now time for interruption of business. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday 23rd July, 2013, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.