Order, hon. Senators! Could we determine if we have a quorum?

Hon. Senators, I am informed that we have a quorum. We should now be able to proceed with the business for today morning.

Hon. Senators, before we proceed with business this morning, I wish to acknowledge the presence of some visitors. I heartily welcome them to the Senate. Allow me, hon. Senators, to introduce to you a delegation of County Assembly Members from Nyandarua County Assembly who are seated at the gallery. Of, course, that is the county represented by our colleague, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue. The delegation is led by the Nyandarua County Assembly Majority Leader, Hon. James Mwangi Gichuki As I proceed to introduce the rest of the delegation, I request that if an hon. Member’s name is called out, he or she should stand up and be acknowledged in the normal tradition of Parliament and of this Senate. We have the following 11 visiting hon. Members from Nyandarua County, over and above the Majority Leader:- 1. Hon. Peter Githinji, Ngumba, Minority Leader 2. Hon. Sylvestus Kagiri Mwangi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, cognizant of the provisions of Article 11 (1) of the Constitution that recognizes culture as the foundation of the nation and as the cumulative civilization of the Kenyan people and nation; further aware that Article 11 (2) (a) states that the State shall promote all forms of national and cultural expressions through literature, the arts and traditional celebrations, among other forms; noting that traditional institutions used to play an essential role in molding the character and morals of young people and with their decline the country has experienced moral decadence; noting further that the institutions supporting communal practices such as rites of passage; further aware that Article 10 of the Constitution sets out the national values and principles of governance; concerned that lack of systematic and institutionalized cultural programmes has led to erosion of diverse cultures and weakening of the societal fabric posing a serious risk to nationhood; the Senate urges the national Government to develop national programmes to recognize and celebrate her people at birth, upon graduation from nursery, primary and secondary schools, in order to promote national values of patriotism, cultural diversity, rule of law, participation of the people, democracy and nationhood amongst children and young people.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Haji. COMPENSATION OF COMMUNITIES AFFECTED BY PERENNIAL FLOODING IN TANA DELTA The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, noting with concern that during the rainy season, Counties along the Tana River experience frequent flooding that causes displacement of many people and destruction of food and cash crops as well as loss of irrigation engines and other equipment thereby impoverishing very vulnerable communities; aware that most of the damage is caused by water overflow and spillovers occasioned by negligence from the main reservoir at Masinga dam which is owned by the Kenya Electricity Generating company (KenGen), the Senate urges the Government to take measures to eliminate this perennial danger and to compensate communities that have been displaced or otherwise adversely affected by the water released from dams in the Tana Delta.

Thank you, Sen. Haji. Next Order.

Hon. Senators, yesterday, when we adjourned at 6.30 p.m., Sen. Kajwang was on the Floor and he still had five minutes to conclude his contribution. Proceed, Sen. Kajwang. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to complete my contribution on this very important subject of livestock. In fact, we have sometimes called this “the livestock” industry, but we have not invested sufficiently to be proud to call it so. In fact, it is an industry that has thrived by itself sometimes without any Government support or intervention. I do not know of any industry in the world that can thrive if we do not put our money and effort in developing it. I have looked at budgets come and go. My brother, Sen. (Dr.) Kuti was once the Minister for Livestock sometime ago. He put in a lot of effort. I remember that when we were faced with a drought where animals were dying in North Eastern Province, he even bought hay to take there. He moved some animals to be slaughtered at the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) to save, at least, some wealth. Some animals died before they reached the slaughterhouse. It was a terrible sight watching animals die with some hay which they could not even consume because they were too weak to consume it. That was a very sad situation. But this happens almost perennially, when we have a cycle of drought. We do not seem to learn anything from that. We destroy a lot of wealth. In fact, it looks like this country is one of the richest countries in the world. We usually can project that, for example, this year we will experience drought and we are likely to face devastation of our animals. It is like a huge bank account going into smoke as we watch. We do not seem to feel it. In fact, if somebody stole Kshs10 million from Barclays Bank of Kenya, it would be big news in the Cable News Network (CNN). But if animals die in their thousands in North Eastern Kenya, nobody seems to bother about it. It seems that we are either reckless or careless about our wealth. Probably, this is why we are still poor. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must invest in this industry. I hope that the new Minister and his able supporters in his department, especially the one in charge of the livestock docket will do a few things. First, animals cannot survive without water. I have just listened to the notice of Motion that has been given by Sen. Haji which has indicated that as a result of flooding, water sometimes displaces us from our homes. But the only way of solving this issue is to dam the water. We should just buy some equipment and put them to good use. We do not seem to want to do this. I visited Turkana County with Sen. Munyes some time back, of course the problem then was the border with Sudan. But we were also looking at issues affecting animals. The animals travel long distances into Uganda in search of water. Why does this happen? Ugandans have dug several dams at the border. They collect that same water which we could collect, and we move there to use their water at the risk of tribal clashes. This just shows how careless we are. I do not think Uganda has more money than Kenya. It is only that they have put an effort and they have a vision. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage!

Mheshimiwa Bw. Naibu Spika, nashukuru kwa wasaa ulionipa ili nitoe mawazo yangu kwa Mswada huu, haswa wakati huu tukiwakaribisha marafiki zetu kutoka Nyandarua. Wafugaji hawatoki kaskazini mwa Kenya tu; wafugaji wanatoka sehemu nyingi zingine. Kwa mfano, sehemu kubwa katika Kaunti ya Migori ni ya wafugaji. Karibu theluthi mbili ya eneo lililokuwa likiitwa Nyanza wakati huo ni sehemu za wafugaji. Mikoa ya Kati, Bonde la Ufa na hata sehemu za Mombasa na Pwani, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Sen. Haji, what is your point of order?

Hoja ya nidhamu yangu ni kwamba; je, ni sawa kusema kwamba ngozi ya mnyama aliyekufa itolewe halafu iuziwe watu? Hicho ni kitu haramu!

Is that a point of order, Sen. Haji?

Sen. Haji, ngozi ya ng’ombe aliyekufa ni haramu namna gani?

Bw. Naibu Spika, nafikiri butchery zote za Kenya na sheria za nchi hii zinasema kwamba wanyama lazima wachinjwe; na kama hawakuchinjwa, ni haramu!

Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Bw. Naibu Spika, sitaki kuingilia sera, desturi na haki za dini ya Sen. Haji. Ni haki yake kufikiria hivyo, lakini najua kwamba Waislamu ni asilimia kumi na tano tu katika nchi ya Kenya, ilhali asili mia 85 ni watu wa dini nyingine – Wakristo na kadhalika – kwa hivyo, hao bado wangepata haki yao kwa uchumi huo. Sio kwamba kila ngozi itolewayo lazima iuziwe Muislamu.

Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Sen. Haji, what is your point of order?

Mwenzangu anaweza kudhibitisha vipi kwamba Waislamu ni asili mia 15? Ni vizuri alete ushahidi wa kutosha au aondoe hayo maneno yake.

I think the point being made here – I do not want us to get unnecessarily deeper into this issue – I think the only issue that Sen. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Bw. Naibu Spika, waheshimiwa wenzangu husafiri sana; hivi majuzi ametoka Uingereza akanunua viatu. Je, aliuliza ngozi hii ilitoka wapi? Yeye alivaa kiatu mara moja!

That is a good one!

Lakini sasa, hayo ninayosema ni ya kweli; kama huyataki, ni sawa, kwa sababu pilipili usiyoila yakuwashiani? Twataka hivi viwanda vijengwe kila mahali, haswa tuangalie uchumi utokanao kwa ngozi. Sio vizuri – ama niseme sio halali – sisi tukiwa wafugaji walio na mifugo wengi, kuona raslimali yetu ikipotea, halafu twaagiza viatu kwa bei ghali kutoka nchi za nje. Huo ni ujinga, ubaradhuli, ukosefu wa hekima na kadhalika. Lazima tugutuke na tujue kwamba kuna sehemu nyingi ambazo tunaweza kutoa mifugo mingi yenye afya nzuri inayoweza kuchinjwa ikiwa bado hai ili Waislamu pia wafurahi. Katika sehemu za Nyanza, kama Lambwe Valley, tuna taabu ya Mb’ung’o – wadudu wanaouma ng’ombe na kuwapa maradhi ya usingizi. Serikali imeweka hili jambo kando; haliangaliwi kwa maanani na twapoteza mifugo mingi sana. Hizo ni sehemu ambazo ukiondoa tu kile kipande ambacho kina sehemu ya wanyama, sehemu nyingine hazina watu; sehemu ambazo zingetumika kufuga mifugo. Lakini hata hivyo, sisi tunajulikana kweli kama watu ambao wanaopoteza raslimali kiholela holela. Kwa mfano, Ziwa Victoria limejaa maji tele yanayotumika huko Misri na kadhalika, wakitumia mkataba uliowekwa wakati huo wa ukoloni. Ethiopia wamegutuka na wameanza kutumia raslimali ya maji yao ilhali sisi bado twasema “bado twafuata mikataba hiyo!” Kwa nini maji hayo yasitekwe, yavutwe kwenye mifereji mpaka sehemu za juu halafu yawachwe yateremke yenyewe bila ya kutumia mashini? Maji haya yakiwekwa katika maeneo makubwa ya muinuko ya Bonde la Ufa katika sehemu za Kisii, yatatiririka bila mashini katika Nyanza nzima kunyunyizia mazao na manyasi yalioko. Tutapata mazao ya hali ya juu; na sio mazao ya kulima ya nafaka tu, bali pia mazao ya Wanyama wetu; ng’ombe, kondoo, mbuzi na hata ngamia wafugwe huko na watakua. Hili jambo lililoletwa katika Mswada huu – ingawa simuoni hapa mwenye Mswada – ni jambo zuri. Huu ni mpango ambao ukitekelezwa na ukifuatiliwa kwa dhati, waweza kuinua uchumi wa Kenya tukawa na raslimali ya kuweza kujenga maeneo yetu ya Majimbo yaliyoanzishwa Kenya hii. Ni jambo la kuzingatiwa kwamba wafugaji wapewe viwanda vya kila aina; sio viwanda vya ngozi tu, bali pia viwanda vya kuchinja mifugo na kufadhili nyama. Hatutaki wawe wanachinja tu na kuanza kusomba mizoga kuleta Nairobi ili iuzwe; twataka nyama hiyo iwekwe ndani ya mikebe---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! Your time is up.

Bw. Spika, nakushukuru na naunga mkono Mswada huu. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to contribute to this very important Motion. I do not know how accurate the statistics quoted in the Motion are, but presuming that they are accurate, it would mean that our country is losing sight of a very important industry which, over the years, I think the economy has ignored. This looks like it dates back to the colonial days when some areas of this country were designated as being high potential areas while others were designated low potential areas. After Independence, I think we just swallowed the whole agenda of the colonialists as it was from the beginning and we went on. We forgot our brothers in the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs). If it is true, in fact, that over 80 per cent of our livestock is actually in those areas, then a mistake has been made in those areas and we need to correct it. We have funds for crops like coffee, cotton, tea and this or that, but we do not have one for livestock!

Correct!

It is about time, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that we paid attention to the development of livestock. Never mind the wording that the mover of the Motion; I think we need to look at the livestock from a wider angle. Where I come from, we have livestock but it is primarily for milk production. But we still do generate animals which are also for meat---

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I think I do wish to be informed.

Sen. (Dr.) Kuti.

I am very grateful for the way Eng. Muriuki has grasped the history of livestock, but I would just like to inform him that, currently, there is the Kenya Livestock Enterprise Development Fund, which already received Kshs150 million last financial year. The board has already been set up and I think it will now start operations. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you very much for informing me. I think the former Minister is very informed, although I must add that I think Kshs150 million to cover all the areas under livestock is very small. What we are now talking about as a Senate is that, it is our job to make sure that the county governments actually operate. Anyway, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point is that, I think we need to go beyond looking at only the abattoirs. I think we should also look at this; when the animals come from the pastoralist areas and they die while waiting to enter the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC), for example, what happened? Why, first of all, are they bringing livestock in such large numbers at a go? Maybe it is because they are not able to sustain themselves where they are coming from. I am not convinced that we are unable to organize pasture and water for these areas so that we do not have to bring them here by force. We should not force them to bring their livestock because they do not know what to do when the dry season comes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are also aware--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senators! Could you, please, consult in lower tones and listen to the Senator for Nyandarua?

Yes, and listen to the Senator for Nyandarua talking on behalf of the ASALs---

Order, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki! Please, proceed!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we now do have, for example, an area like Turkana; it is true that we have found oil as Kenyans, and we are very happy that Turkana is now hopefully going to change. But the same Turkana has also recently discovered water; and we did not know that. Recently, we have also discovered that Turkana has a lot of water underground. This discovery came only because Kenyans got interested in the place because of the oil; if there was no oil, we would not know what lay underneath Turkana. So, it looks like we need to do a little bit more work so that all these ASALs – maybe they are not so arid if we looked downwards, perhaps there is water everywhere. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, recently, this House did pass a Motion to create disease free zones. This is another area which is a problem to people who depend primarily on livestock because when they try to export meat to first world countries, they are not able because they say our animals have diseases. This should be looked at broadly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not convinced that the county governments cannot build abattoirs unless they are told to do so by the Senate. I would like to take this opportunity to challenge county governments wherever they are not to wait to be told what to do. They should be able to gauge what they need for their economy. Last but not least, before I sit down, I would like to take this opportunity to urge the Mover of this Motion to go beyond the Motion and bring a Bill so that we have these abattoirs in every county and not only in arid and semi-arid areas. Even where I come from, we also need an organized abattoir. So, I urge the Mover of the Motion to go further and bring a Bill so that we have these abattoirs in an organized way and we do not have to take our animals to the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) and see them dying for no good reason. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very essential Motion for the pastoralists and all the livestock rearing communities of Kenya. When we were contributing to the disease free zone Motion, I explained a bit of history where the livestock sector was more organized during the colonial era and partly during the first Kenyatta Government. In the 1980s the rains started beating us, when IMF introduced structural adjustment programmes when our economy was at its lowest, whereby certain government sectors had to be done away with or turned to communities and privatized. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. I want to start by commending Sen. Lesuuda for bringing up this very important sector again for discussion. Unfortunately, going by the figures that have been given in the Motion, and I agree with Sen. (Dr.) Machage that livestock is found everywhere in the country, but if we go by Sen. Lesuuda’s figures, they show that for pastoralist areas, a little bit of more effort needs to be put in. This has been a neglected sector especially among pastoralists. It could be something that is historical or it could be the difficulty that social scientists have faced in understanding pastoralism and what it means, the migration patterns and coming up with development agenda that is going to work for them. So, there are certain dynamics that come in by having pastoralist driven into the background of our economy. That still does not exempt the importance of looking at that particular sector which is key. There is no single household that does not benefit from something from the livestock, be it meat, dairy products and so on. We all benefit in one way or another and especially in the export sector, marketing of Kenyan meat is really in the forefront. I remember Sen. Lesuuda, as she was moving this Motion, saying that Kenya has the sweetest meat because it is has not been added hormones but it is authentic. I think we have a lot of capacity there. Some statistics give the Kenyan livestock contribution of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) at about 10 per cent and 42 per cent of total agricultural output which is very commendable. This cuts across all the various sectors. It accounts for a very high proportion, up to 30 per cent of marketed agricultural outputs, especially in the form of exports. So, this is not something that we should take for granted. I have heard other speakers before me talking about the need for coordination and the need for ensuring that abattoirs are taken to a higher standard. We were there before the structural adjustment programme. The key downturn of structural adjustment programmes is that there was something about cost-sharing in the key sectors. I remember even in the education and health sector, that is, when all the progress that had been made had a down turn and people began to move backwards. This also raised some queries, especially in the field of development, the role of international players in coming up with policies for this country and the need for us to also question those policies before implementing them even when they have a monetary implication. The earnings from foreign exchange are mainly from export of live animals, skins and hides, and that is why Sen. Lesuuda talked about the importance of value addition. I was coming from Naivasha the other day and I saw the hides being sold along the road. There are people who are going to take that hide, make it better, improve on the colouring and sell it a far higher price. There is also the issue of middlemen who are able to gain The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senators. Before the next Senator, Sen. Billow, contributes, I would like to make another communication. Today we have many visitors. I interrupt our business to acknowledge county assembly members from the County Assembly of Bungoma who are seated at the gallery. As you know, that is the county represented by our colleague, Sen. Moses Wetangula, who is at the moment out on official business. That is why he is not here. I hope that our colleagues from Bungoma will take note of that. This delegation is led by the hon. Speaker, John Makali. I will introduce the other Members who are here and as I do so, I will request them to stand in the normal tradition of Parliament so that our Members can acknowledge you. Owing to lack of space in our gallery in this temporary Senate Chamber, the delegation is divided into two. I would like to inform you, hon. County Assembly Members of Bungoma, that this is a temporary Chamber for us. Next time you visit us, you will find us in a proper Senate Chamber. I will interrupt the Senate again to introduce the first group. This group is made up of 11 Members. Hon. Rosemary Khisa Hon. Ben. Manaswa Wafula Hon. Tindi E. Manase Hon. James Mukhongo Hon. Charles Wamukota Hon. Benson Mukonda Hon. Gershem Namasake Hon. Nathan Obwana Hon. Julius J. Wanjala Hon. David Fwaro Hon. Moses Wambile. I hope you will enjoy our sessions in the short time you will be here.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion which, I agree with my fellow Senators, is very important. Pastoralism is a way of life. The focus of this Motion is on pastoralism and not just livestock. Pastoralism as a way of life is largely misunderstood in this country and in other parts of the world. We are not simply talking about people who keep livestock in their farms. We are talking about people who keep animals in public grazing lands like in North Eastern Province and other areas. These are people whose animals are mobile and live nomadic lives. Those are the people we are talking about in this Motion. For the last 50 years since Independence, successive Governments have ignored the pastoralist communities, their way of live and their livelihoods. I will be giving reasons to that effect. There is no doubt that the arid and semi arid area of this country where pastoralism is the mainstay represents, at least, 80 per cent of the land mass in this country. Livestock contributes about 15 per cent of the GDP. If this is exploited, there is no doubt in my mind, that we can expand that GDP significantly. When you have 80 per cent landmass that can support livestock and we do not use it, then we miss an opportunity to expand our GDP. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Do you want to be informed?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have very little time. I prefer that my brother waits. There are three important areas in livestock that I want to support. These are tanneries, abattoirs and milk. There is no doubt in anyone’s mind about the demand for camel milk today. The world is changing. There is only one single factory that packages that milk. Today, if we packaged this milk, this country would make more money than we can imagine. I want to support, strongly, that county governments in arid and semi arid areas invest in this area. I am glad to say that Mandera County, in its first budget, will invest Kshs1 billion towards the construction of a world class abattoir. We want to export meat. I think that county government is ahead of this Motion. I want to conclude by saying that pastoralism is a way of life. About 25 per cent of our population depends on it. There is need for the Government to focus on investment in this area. I particularly want this Government that we brought into power not to repeat what happened in Taita Taveta. We want the Government to stand out and to support investment in the livestock sector. I also want to encourage the lady who brought this Motion. As suggested by somebody - I think it was Sen. (Dr.) Machage - we need to develop a Bill that will make this Motion law in terms of how much money should be invested. We want to ensure that this Government puts more money into livestock and not the peanuts that they have been giving to livestock industries like the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) and other institutions that are collapsing.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. Firs to all, I would like to congratulate my friend, Sen. Naisula Lesuuda for this very important Motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for many years, the pastoralist communities have been left behind because of either deliberate policy decisions, like Sessional Paper No.10 of 1965 or through ignorance in terms of policy implementers, particularly in understanding the importance of livestock. In fact, there are many papers and statements in the public that have always somehow tried to label pastoralist life as backward and that pastoralist communities need to be reclaimed from that kind of life. But we know that pastoralism, particularly the keeping of livestock is very important for this country. It is important to emphasize what Sen. Billow talked about in terms of existence of a market, globally; that we can take advantage of the vast land in the pastoralist areas, which gives us an opportunity to have livestock, particularly the goats. I want to reiterate what the Mover of this Motion talked about having sweet meat. There is no better meat in this country than that of a goat from a pastoralist area. I think that it is important that we take advantage of that and capture the market globally. This will create employment for the youth and women and improve the economy. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! I did tell you that today is a day for many visitors. We have got a second group from Bungoma County. I want to introduce them, as is our tradition, without going into too much detail again, because we had gone through it, except to tell them that this is a temporary shelter that we have. I want you to feel very welcome in our Senate. I know that you have got other functions that you want to attend to at the Senate.

and feel at home. You are our counterparts in the service of this nation. When I introduce you, please, stand up, so that you can be acknowledged. I had indicated that your Senator is not here. He is a very active Member of the Senate, but he is out of the country on official business. The members are:- Hon. John Musakali, Leader of the Minority Hon. Joan Lutukai Hon. Christopher Mulati Hon. Jack Kawa Hon. Chrisantus Wechuli Hon. John Wanyakha Hon. Peter Cherui Hon. James Wafula Nyongesa Hon. Ali Machani Mutoka Hon. Edward Elima Mr. John Masongo, Clerk Welcome and I hope that you will enjoy our session. Now, hon. Senators, this Motion will end at 10.30 a.m. and that is when the Mover will be called to reply. Therefore, we have only 20 minutes and I can see that there is still a lot of interest in the Motion. Instead of giving you ten minutes each, therefore, I am requesting humbly that you allow me to reduce the period to five minutes, so that many of you can contribute. I will also request the Mover of the Motion to donate part of her time to reply to the Members, if there will still be interest. Hon. Ndiema!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to congratulate hon. Lesuuda for bringing this Motion, which is really of interest to the economy of this country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, more than 75 per cent of this country falls under what is categorized as arid and semi-arid. The major activity or means of livelihood for the people in those areas is livestock keeping. So, it is a very important sector. It is unfortunate that for many years, we have considered this sector as a subsector of the agricultural sector, yet it is an activity carried out in 75 per cent of our land mass. It should be a sector on its own. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Sen. Wako, I do not know whether you are aware of the provisions of Standing Order No.105.

I apologize, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. Proceed!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have heard about the policies and tended to blame Sessional Paper No.10 of 1965 for ills that we still experience in the livestock. I do not think that it is right to say so because after that, we have had so many papers, including Vision 2030, which all emphasize and extol the livestock sector, yet the allocations to this sector from our national resources are very meagre. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was a time that the livestock sector in this country was booming. We were exporting milk and meat, but over the years, our performance has diminished. We have to look at what went wrong. In so doing, let us look at the threats that exist in the livestock industry. First of all, unless we address the issue of diseases, we shall not grow this sector. This is because the pastoralists continue losing their livestock every year through diseases which can be prevented or treated. But as you know, the veterinary officers have long been redundant in the name of privatization. How many private veterinarians are able to perform private work in the arid and semi-arid areas? The Government must step in and deploy veterinary doctors in those areas. Even training in veterinary medicine in the universities has become a non-lucrative area. We are no longer producing enough veterinarians because they are not being employed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other issue that we have to address is rustling. But this is also connected to poverty, arising from less economic attention from the government to those areas. People are rustling because they are no longer earning anything from the livestock sector. We have to look at that. Water is another issue that has been mentioned. I do not need to emphasize that. There is also poor pasture management. There was a time when we had range management in this country. We managed pasture in a way that during the times of drought there was a fallback situation where livestock could graze. It is no longer there because we are subdividing those lands, left and right, as one Senator has said. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other issue is poor marketing. The Government no longer supports marketing. The Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) was revived, but as you can see, it is always limping with a lot of corruption. The holding grounds that existed previously were grabbed and are no longer there. We need to restart them. Even as we are talking about abattoirs, we have to look at where to locate them. Abattoirs could be best placed where the consumption is; whether it is in Nyeri or in Murang’a, we should set up abattoirs. There was a time I participated in a forum where we asked an investor to put up an abattoir in an ASAL. What happened is that they asked us, “What will we do with the offals or the byproducts?” Because--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order! Order, Senator; your time is up!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I beg to support.

Sen. Kittony.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me time to contribute to this very lively Motion moved by our beautiful pastoralist girl, Sen. Lesuuda. Indeed what she has said here is true. Some of us come from those parts of the world where our meat is the best; it is second to none. We have a brand in Baringo called Koriema Goat; and even before you cook it, you have started salivating. So, I invite you to that part of the world. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the livestock industry in this country has really not got what it is supposed to get. I remember being in Botswana many years back; they get their export income from exporting their meat, and it is not a better country than ours. Kenya is able to do that and, in fact, we were exporting our meat when Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) was KMC. But, now, it is limping because of corruption. This is a wakeup call that Sen. Lesuuda has given to this Ministry. I think it is time that this country woke up to the reality and realized that the livestock industry is noble; it needs to be nurtured and protected. As I stand here, I am a farmer and I do not want to sell my cow cheaply like that. I would like to get the quality of what it is that my cow is worth. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion because it deals with the counties. I can see that the counties are really going to work – and I am happy that my colleague neighbours from Bungoma are here with us, and I acknowledge you. We have the best livestock in Kenya. Every county should have an abattoir to offer opportunities for our young people, who are loitering on the streets and doing nothing, to be employed. So, it is not an issue that abattoirs should find a place to be put; but every county should have an abattoir because we have enough cows and goats. I believe that on the 19th of December, there will be a big auction in Baringo because they have a lot of goats and they do not know what to do with them. So, I know that the annual auction is being revived because the goats are more than they can take and they do not get the money that these goats are worth. When Sen. Lesuuda yesterday talked about the skin, hooves and what-have-you, the debate was very lively and we should have taken a vote. But because the Motion spilled overnight to today, the heat of the debate is cooling down. When you talk of the hooves, it has value; when you talk of the skin, it has value. But the skins are being thrown away because nobody has captured that. So, if it goes to the county level, I believe this country will be richer than what it is now. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank this beautiful girl from Samburu for moving this Motion and waking the Ministry of Livestock up. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Sen. Dullo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Secondly, I would like to congratulate Sen. Lesuuda; this is a very important Motion. I think it is important that we should not take it lightly. The point that I really want to raise in support of this particular Motion is that, it looks like we are really diluting it. The The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Dullo! Address the Chair.

I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We need to look at the infrastructure in those areas because they are in a really pathetic condition. Coming from pastoral areas, I know that livestock are owned by men; women and youth do not own livestock. We are just managing those livestock for men because culturally, livestock are owned by the men.

Why?

Do not ask me why; that is the practice in those areas. So, it is really important that we appreciate women so that they can also be brought into this business. By actually constructing these abattoirs, we should ensure that they are also introduced into this business by marketing and also running businesses in those abattoirs. That way, we will actually be empowering women and youth in this part of the country. This will also make them self sustaining in terms of their livelihoods. Lastly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we speak of development, this is development because, over the years, we have been left out, especially the people living in pastoral areas. When policies come up, they only focus on the agricultural areas. And I---

Order! Your time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Karaba.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to also contribute in support of this crucial Motion; it is crucial to the extent that, as you have heard, a large part of Kenya or most of the area of Kenya is semi-arid sahelian region where such activities take place. Therefore, it is important that we have to take care of the residents living in those areas because this is one of the very few economic activities that they have in the region. Going by the fact that the rest of the country, which is 12 per cent, consists of rainfall reliable regions, we need to support this Motion The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, hon. Senators! That brings---

Order, Members! Order! Before I proceed, let me now introduce the last group from Bungoma County that is here to visit us. I would like to tell you how pleased we are that you have found time to come and see how we operate as Senate, because you are our counterparts and you are a very important arm of what all of us are trying to achieve in devolution. We have had two groups before this and like I said, this is the county represented by Sen. Wetangula who is out of the country on official business and that is why he is not here this morning. So, you have to allow that but the Senators from the neighbouring counties are here, like Sen. Wako. So, if you need any assistance, Sen. Wako is here. Sen. Orengo is also from the neighbouring county. Should you require any assistance of any kind in the absence of Sen. Wetangula, then you are in very good hands. The people we have here are our colleagues from the County of Bungoma and their names are:- 1. Hon. Henry Majimbo Okumo – Leader of the Majority 2. Hon. Wekesa Mwembe 3. Hon. Moses Opicho 4. Hon. Paul Wanyonyi 5. Hon. Florence Wekesa 6. Hon. Andrew Simiyu 7. Hon. Martin Wafula 8. Hon. Henry Nyongesa I would like to take special recognition of Mr. Absalom Wendoh, the Sergeant-at- Arms, whom we all recognize very well. We worked very closely with him. I was in the Ninth Parliament and he was an extremely diligent officer. You are lucky to have Mr. Wendoh as your Sergeant-at-Arms. He offered long service and was recognized by the Head of State by getting the Head of State Commendation when he finished his duties. Welcome back to Parliament, Mr. Wendoh. Lastly we have; Mr. Bonventure Omusolo – Hansard.

The time for this Motion is finished and I am now going to call the Mover to reply.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as you have realized, there is a lot of interest for others to also contribute. So, I will give Sen. Mositet two minutes, Sen. Bule one minute, Sen. Wangari one minute, Sen. Wako one minute, Sen. Chelule one minute and I will have four minutes to reply.

Okay, let them contribute in that order. Sen. Mositet. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also thank the Mover of the Motion for donating her time. This Motion has come at the right time so that it can be a challenge to our counties. The issue of animals as stipulated in the Fourth Schedule is a county matter. Let me just inform this House about my county so that they can know the importance of this Motion. Going by the population of my county, we are about 800,000 people and about 400,000 people live in cosmopolitan areas while others live in reserve areas which are semi-arid and they rear cattle. The people who are employed and do not live on livestock could be less than 20,000 but the rest depend purely on livestock. So, you can imagine how important that group is. This group does not come to look for work in Nairobi or other urban areas. What I am saying is that this economy has been neglected despite the fact that it is a thriving economy on its own. If only the Government can come up and assist, particularly now that we have a devolved system of governance, the county governments can make sure that the abattoirs are built in each and every county. There is big demand for meat, not just locally but also internationally. I support.

Bw. Naibu Spika, nashukuru kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Namshukuru pia Sen. Lesuuda kwa kunipa fursa hii. Naunga Hoja hii mkono na ningependa kusema kwamba jambo la ufugaji linahitaji liangaliwe sana. Ufugaji ulikuwepo tangu jadi lakini wafugaji wamesahaulika kimaisha na Serikali yetu. Serikali haikutia maanani mambo ya ufugaji kwa sababu hawakupata usawa na ndugu zetu wengine wakulima. Ufugaji ni njia pekee ambayo wafugaji wanaweza kupata mapato. Mimi kama mfugaji ni mchungaji wa kuhamahama. Hiyo sehemu ambayo tunaishi inahitaji ufugaji kuimarishwa kwa usawa kama wengine. Wakati mfupi uliopita nilisikia Serikali ikisema kwamba sehemu ambayo ilikuwa imetengwa ya ADC Galana itafanyiwa ukulima lakini ufugaji unazorota na unahitaji uangalifu zaidi na pia kuinuliwa. Kwa hivyo tunasema kwamba tunataka ufugaji uwe sawa na sehemu zingine za maisha. Sisi wafugaji tunategemea---

Order! Your time is up.

Ningependa kuunga mkono.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, noting that I only have one minute, I will be very quick. From the outset, I support this Motion and congratulate the Mover. Having visited her county, I can affirm that the meat there is really natural and very nice. One of the biggest challenges of the Jubilee Government is unemployment among the youths. So, the building of these abattoirs will not only create employment but will make it very attractive for the face book generation of this country that is really big to be able to participate in this traditional industry that must be modernized to be at par with the dynamics of the world. When you look at this Motion and I want to talk about infrastructure especially in the counties that have been very marginalized; I would say that we need to interrogate what the counties are doing especially on the budgeting aspect. This was brought up when we were debating the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. As we interrogate through our Committee for Finance, Trade and Commerce, we need to see what exactly The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Wako, you have one minute.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank Sen. Lesuuda for having given me one minute. I was once the director of Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) in the 1970s when things were running well. I recall receiving a delegation from Botswana who came to study how we run the KMC. They went back to their country and copied us completely but theirs is thriving and ours has gone down. This Motion which has been brought is very important because in Africa, we tend to sit on our wealth. We do not utilize our wealth and we do not utilize what we have. The passage of this Motion and the support that we shall have on it from the county governments--- Even the national government should take an active interest in terms of an agricultural policy to support livestock development in this country and to give the necessary funds to the county governments to put up modern abattoirs and the infrastructure that goes around it so that the area can develop the way it is meant to do. I support.

Sen. Chelule, you are the last person in that lot. I do not think Sen. Lesuuda has left time for herself.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. First, I must congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for bringing this Motion. This is a very important Motion for the following reasons: It will improve the economic status of communities, create employment and give space for farmers to enjoy maximum proceeds through value addition. It is a wonderful way of encouraging livestock farmers. I want to stand here as one of the Senators and I want to encourage all the leaders to enrich ideas and even suggest that this Motion to be taken to the level of developing a Bill. So, I encourage Sen. Lesuuda to make sure that this Motion becomes a Bill. I beg to support.

Thank you, Sen. Chelule. Sen. Lesuuda.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me thank all my fellow distinguished Senators for supporting this Motion. It has just shown us that regardless of which county we come from, we are ready to make sure that each and every county thrives on the potentials that it has. If one, two, three or four counties do not enjoy the benefit of devolution, all of us senators would have failed. So, I thank you all for contributing to this important Motion and I hope that in future we will continue to support each and every county to appreciate and reach its maximum potential. I want to congratulate and thank those who have thought it wise that we should go beyond this one aspect of abattoirs or tanneries and think of a Bill that will bring full economic impact to these areas; like having co-operatives in these areas and also putting the youth in groups. How do they even access the Youth Enterprise Fund? What will they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you. Before I put the question on this issue so that we proceed to vote, under Standing Order No.69(1) (2), my ruling is pure and simple that this is Motion that affects counties. Therefore, I will now put the question.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to request and bring to your attention now that you have ruled that this is a matter that touches on counties, that we do not have the requisite 24 Senators to vote on it. Under Standing Order No.51(3), I would like to request that we defer the voting to this afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the same breath, as Sen. Lesuuda said, we have already set precedence. Every time we debate a Motion concerning counties we normally set a voting date. I will be hesitant to use that Standing Order because we had set a precedence that we debate this week and vote on a Tuesday or Wednesday next week so that there is sufficient notice. I will be hesitant to use that Standing Order because that will mean that we do it tomorrow.

Order, Senators. I would like to uphold the application that has been mentioned under Standing Order No.51(3) that defers the voting. However, let me bring it to your attention that this has to be on a request by a Senator. If there is no request by a Senator on this issue, I will put the question. That needs to be understood very clearly. My work as the Deputy Speaker is to follow the rules under the Standing Orders. However, I am happy that a Senator has requested that we defer the putting of the question. The other thing about the Standing Order brought by Sen. Murkomen, I am not aware of any precedence on this issue. There will be no precedence on this issue. There has to be a request and deferment of the ruling. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

I asked for today afternoon.

It is so ordered. The voting will be today afternoon after the voting on the County Allocation of Revenue Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity to second this Motion that has been moved by my Chairman of the Committee, Sen. Kagwe. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is important that we lay a firm foundation in devolution. It is also very important that we spend all the money required to set standards for our counties. When we travelled with the Committee, we found that there The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to support this very timely Motion that has been brought to this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we cannot be talking, as the Jubilee Government, of digitalizing Class One pupils when the people that they are looking up to and are very The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. Secondly, I want to thank the Chairman of my Committee for moving this very important Motion. The Motion, as it reads, urges the county government--- I think this Motion really would be saying, “Instructs the county governments,” but we are very gentle and we want to use protocol. So, we want to urge; otherwise, it is our prime responsibility to actually carry forward what is requested in this Motion. First of all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want us to ask ourselves whether we recognize the shortcomings that already exist within the operations of county governments. One of them, of course, is the education level of the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs). It has been admitted and mentioned here that some county assemblies, at some point, suggested and actually asked if they could debate their Motions in their mother tongues. That, of course, tells us something about the levels of education that some MCAs – not all of them – have. I also get concerned with the fact that even though we might be educated, we could be educated in our fields, but I do not know whether we are all educated in the handling and usage of computers and its software. So, education is one of the shortcomings that we must know already exists among our MCAs and, therefore, the capacity to use the technology that is there is limited. Secondly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we also have to recognize the shortcoming of time. There is a very short time between the knowing of how to use these materials and the expectations of the people for us to deliver services. So, there is a short period of time and, therefore, we must positively react to this situation and improve on it. There are also the types of services we are expected to deliver to the public. A lot of information, including application for jobs is online and thus requires some knowledge on this technology. Therefore, it is very important that those who participate most in public affairs, like the MCAs, are well versed in the usage and availability of these equipment. So, it is very important that we realize the shortcomings that already exist so that we can support this type of Motion, which goes to resolve some of these problems. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are very fortunate here in the Senate or in the National Assembly because we have the support of the Parliamentary Service Commission. A similar body does not exist within the counties and the provision of some of these services is done by the governors or the county assemblies. Of course, this being The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan! What is your point of order, Sen. Madzayo?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for my colleague to refer to the Temporary Speaker as “Mr. Chairman?”

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, you are completely out of order! You may not traditionally be used to seeing me sitting here, but, nevertheless, I am the Temporary Speaker!

Proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is new territory for me and I want to apologize for referring to you as “Mr. Chairman;” but I know that you are the honorable Speaker for now, and I respect the Chair. Pardon me, Mr. Speaker--- Mr. --- Mr. --- Madam--- Mr. ---

Pardon me, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if I continue to use that term, but I will try as best as I can not to refer to you as “Mr. Chairman” again.

Proceed.

The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. There were some county governments that actually considered training of Members of County Assembly (MCA) as an extravagant expense. I think that it was not correct and any monies that have been set aside for training and capacity building is money well utilized. I will encourage that these monies continue to be used but perhaps in a more careful way in that MCAs need not go to Mombasa or Naivasha in order to get trained. The training can be done in nearby places even within their own counties. This is information that MCAs must have. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Article 192 of the Constitution expects the county governments to operate a financial management system that is up to speed with the one of the national government. We are aware that the national government is up to speed in this and therefore the county governments are expected to also open a financial management of a standard that is equivalent to that of the national government. I am sure this can only be effected if the know-how and the hardware are available in the counties. That is why this Motion is urging the county governments to provide the software, the hardware and the knowledge that is required for the county governments to actually operate an acceptable financial management system. Lastly, the MCAs play a very crucial role in the oversight of the county government where the Senators are part. I am sure we can do a much better job if the MCAs are conversant and have the tools to enable them work with us to oversight the county government. Therefore, the onus is on us, the Senators, to assist and ensure that Information Communication Technology (ICT) in total, including the software and the hardware, is in place for us to deliver services in the county governments and also to assist the national government to serve and enforce the manifestos that have been assured to the public. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the chance to support this Motion. I am really honoured to support this Motion as I am in the Committee for Education, Information and Technology. I would like to start by referring to a quote by Neil Turner from my Blackberry playbook, just to support the digital era that I am in, and I quote:- “Future generations will thank us for the fight we are undertaking to promote ICT and ensure we have a world class workforce who can compete in a digital world.” If we want to compete in this digital world, then the county governments cannot be left behind. We need MCAs who are able to also stand up and use the same tablet like I am using. They cannot do that if they do not have computers in their offices and if they are not up to standard in this digital era. If we provide them with computers, it will even encourage them to improve their education, go back to school and study computers so that they can compete in the digital world. So, we need to supply them with computers to enable them access more information and also enable the public to access information they discuss in their chambers. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to talk about the media. We need to support the media so that they are able to work hand in hand with the county government to enable people access information. We know very well that the media oversights the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity and also thank my Chairman, Sen. Kagwe for introducing and bringing this Motion at the early stages of the life of this Senate, especially now that we are anchoring on devolution. The players of devolution, that is, the Upper House, which is the Senate, should link directly with the county assemblies in order to make sure that devolution takes root and it works. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, about two years, to be precise in January, 2011, I remember it was about five months after the Constitution was promulgated, the Ministry of Public Works then together with other Ministries decided to come up with offices in the county assemblies. The idea was a replica and a mini-version of the current parliament where the National Assembly sits at the moment. We should also remember that the Senate Chamber is coming up next to that Chamber and a lot of money has been put in, that is, about Kshs2.2 billion for building offices for the Senators and the Chamber. There was an idea that county assemblies must be the same in every county. The building you enter should be the same everywhere including Lodwar, the headquarters for Turkana County. This is because we are now decentralizing and devolving power from one source to 47 assemblies. Budgets and drawings were done including visits across the nation. Photographs were taken and designs done. Some of the counties, for example, where the Temporary Speaker comes from, have no office up to now. They have not inherited any office which was for the municipal council. This is the same in Garissa and West Pokot. Sen. Obure was the Minister in charge and Treasury also gave out money for initial visits. I was the Permanent Secretary then and I even sent people to India and South Africa. Very noble ideas were brought and they could have made it easier for the Motion introduced by Sen. Kagwe where every MCA would have an office, installed and equipped with the latest infrastructure required for an office of that calibre. Owing to the Commissions we have put in place, somebody said that we could not build county assemblies before governors were in place. As you know, governors have no relation with county assemblies. You can now see that we could have put this right. A budget of Kshs10 billion would have been enough. A few counties like Uasin Gishu and Nyeri are not so badly off. However, the chambers also needed to be modified to resemble what we have here. Kenyans are very good in criticising any idea whose time has come. If we followed that, we would not be where we are today. We would be talking about counties whose structures resemble and which can discharge their duties appropriately. If Senators or even the President wanted to go and address county assemblies there would be no problem. However, as it is, some counties are meeting in make shift areas. We want county governors to have chambers where they can work. They have nowhere to sit and yet people are flocking around them with all manner of problems. I visited my governor and found 150 people waiting to see a man who was already looking The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir for allowing me to contribute to this belated Motion. It is belated because when we started forming the idea of devolution this idea should have come up. The taskforce that was going round should have made a recommendation in line with this Motion so that before devolution takes place; there can be technological awareness of counties. This is a very important aspect of consideration. There are times when we get concerned about the things we talk about. We discuss many Motions but no implementation takes place. This is the time. We need to think on how to implement our ideas.

Order, hon. Senators, please, consult in low tones.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker for that observation. We have passed many Motions but one wonders what will happen after all this exercise is done. I remember in the Ninth Parliament when I was a Member of Kirinyaga Central, I moved a Motion requesting the Government to make sure that all secondary schools introduce computer teaching as a subject. This was passed and as a result of that, very many schools have been connected to power. Probably, that is what has led to the increase of people with added technological skills related to computers. That notwithstanding, we need now to ask ourselves for how long we should keep on talking. After that talk what happens? Do we have a committee which will sit down and come up with Motions and Bills which have been passed not only in the Senate, but also in the National Assembly, to make sure that they are implemented? This is one of the Motions that should have been passed yesterday. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have very many Committees moving round. We had one on Education moving round the counties. It will even move to Western Kenya including Kakamega, Kisumu and Bungoma so that we can familiarize ourselves with what happens in those counties and many others. We are about to proceed on recess and I am sure that many other Committees will move out. Some of them will travel outside the country. When they travel outside the country, they visit countries which were in the state in which we are now here in Kenya. I believe that some of them will go to Korea and others to Malaysia, Japan, India, China, Vietnam and so forth. These are the countries which, given their history, have struggled as much as we have, but have taken off very fast. Why is it that Kenya, after 50 years, has not been able to take off? The problem is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Karaba! Did you say “something like that?” The name is Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you know that these names are also very long and are like a sentence Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need to be serious in the Senate. When we discuss a Motion or a Bill here, this is the House that will see to it that it is implemented. If such a Motion was implemented during the time my friend, Sen. Obure, was a Minister – and Prof. Lonyangapuo also stated here earlier – we would not be having this problem of discussing every other time about offices. We would be talking about connectivity. How connected are we now to those counties? We are supposed to relate and communicate with them, yet we are very poorly connected. So, this Motion is coming at the right time and I hope that it will be implemented. If it is implemented, we will be a step further from where we are. Recently, I was able to sit in a board of directors meeting somewhere. We had posted some invitation in the newspaper that we wanted a managing director of this and that quality. These people were supposed to submit their application by a certain given time or day. But we were surprised that when the time was over, there were still people submitting applications. We agreed to invite one person even if the application was late, to ask him what really had happened. This man was from Turkana. Since we are supposed to advertise in three newspapers which include The Daily Nation, The Standard and any other newspaper, he told us that they normally get newspapers after a month. If we are going to use newspaper to communicate to people who are that far, so that they can address themselves to the problems that we have in the capital, we will be joking. That is the reason you will hear some of them saying that they are going to Kenya, yet they are still in Kenya. It is because they believe that Turkana is not part of the country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for us to have the Kenya that we want, the first thing that we should attend to is technology. This is one way of making sure that technology is with the people. Unless we have technology in the counties, where else would you say that technology is? This is an idea that we need to really embrace and marry it with our development. Take the budgets that some county assemblies are passing, for example. Some of them are passing budgets which are very far from reality. They are passing budgets for entertainment, pornography and to study how people are behaving. Surely, why can they not pass budgets to purchase two or three computers or recruit better skilled manpower in those assemblies, so that they can communicate with the Senate, the National Assembly or other counties? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the spirit of this Motion is good. It also indicates that the county assemblies cannot be complete without the Senators, because they are the ones who will provide the oversight role. So, this Motion can also be amended to include the office of the Senator at the county level, which should be interlinked with the county assembly, so that as soon as the Senator gets to his or her office, he/she will be able to communicate readily with members of the county assembly, without necessarily The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi hii ili niungane pamoja na wenzangu kuzungumza juu ya Hoja ilioko mbele yetu. Vile vile namushukuru Sen. Kagwe kwa kuleta Hoja hii mapema, kwa sababu ni muhimu sana. Ukiangalia vile tunafanya kazi kama Bunge, Kamati zote zilizoko zinaweza kukaa na kuchunguza Bajeti inayoletwa na Serikali. Vile vile ni muhimu kuwafundisha au kuiambia idara inayohusika kuzifundisha bunge za Kaunti kutumia komputa. Pia ningependekeza kuwa badala ya kutumia Kiingereza watumie lugha ya taifa ili wakija kwa Bunge au Seneti, waweze kufanya mijadala kwa lugha ya taifa. Hiyo ndio njia moja ya kujikomboa kutoka kwa minyororo ya wale waliopita. Sisemi ya kwamba lugha ya Kiingereza ni mbaya, lakini kila mtu hujivunia lugha yake mwenyewe. Ni muhimu kuzipatia bunge za kaunti komputa na kufundishwa kikamilifu, ili waweze pia kuchunguza zile bajeti zinazofanywa na magavana au kamati kuu za magavana, ili watu waone kuwa walichagua bunge za kaunti ambazo zinaangalia maslahi yao. Vile vile ni muhimu kwa wanahabari walio katika bunge za kaunti na pia wale walio hapa na pia katika Bunge la Kitaifa wawaelimishe watu wasiokuwa katika bunge za kaunti kuhusu kitu gani kinachofanyika katika bunge hizo na masilahi yao yanachukuliwa namna gani. Vile vile, ni muhimu Spika wote wawili wa Seneti na wa Bunge la Kitaifa kufanya kongamano maalumu kuwafundisha maspika wote wa bunge 47 za kaunti ili kuwaelezea njia bora za kuendesha kazi ya bunge hizo. Kwa hayo machache, Bw. Spika wa Muda, naomba kuunga mkono. Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda.

Sen. G.G. Kariuki.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion which I think is long, long overdue, because these are the areas that we needed to deal with immediately we came to power in a new dispensation. My reason for saying this is that when debate was going on to provide ways and means of implementing the new Constitution or providing operational laws to manage the new Constitution, this country lost some direction. There was a need for people who were to become Members of County Assemblies (MCAs), Senators and Members of Parliament (MPs) to have acquired a good standard of education. But that issue was just politicised and it was laid The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, thank you for allowing me to make a few remarks in support of this Motion. This is a very important Motion, well thought out and was very effectively and eloquently presented by my friend from Nyeri, Sen. Kagwe and also very ably seconded by the Senator for Nyamira, Sen. Okong’o. The objective of devolution is to improve and make the lives of citizens better. This will be done through enhancing service delivery and indeed improving the quality of service provided to the citizens in every county. It will be done through enhancing accountability in the manner in which resources are utilized. It would be done overall by improving governance at all levels. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I strongly believe that the role of the MCA will be central and will be critical in achieving these ideals. We must, therefore, support MCAs and give them space to play their role fully. Unfortunately, many people still think and see MCAs as councillors and I think this is very unfortunate. They should not be equated to councilors of yesteryears. These are people who will play a very important role because they are close to the people and interact with people on a daily basis. Therefore, they will be helping the Government both at the county and national level to enable citizens understand government programmes better. Today, they represent areas much bigger than councilors used to represent. The population in their wards is much bigger. The education requirements of a MCA are much higher today. As a result we see lawyers, engineers, medical doctors and other professionals sitting in our assemblies. These are serious people who need to be recognized and supported. Their roles are also much wider today. The MCAs will be involved in the process of budget-making, making laws in their assemblies and also oversight activities. They will be holding the county executive accountable. They are the ones who are going to ensure that the governors and the county executive committee members are accountable to the people in discharging their responsibilities and that they operate within acceptable limits. This role is going to be played by MCA. It is for this reason that I want to agree with the spirit of this Motion that MCAs need to be facilitated in every possible way. We must enable them to acquire knowledge through properly designed programmes, which will enable them to enhance their capacity as individuals. Once their capacity is enhanced, they will be able to discharge their functions more effectively. We must organize workshops and interactions between county assembly members and other groups including the Senate itself. Let us interact with them and exchange views with them. Let us organize meetings between them and Members of the National Assembly and, indeed, with other professionals so that they can better understand their role and the expectations of their citizens in the respective areas that they represent. We must equip them with computers and train them on the use of various ICT gadgets, among other things. This will enhance their performance and improve levels of governance all round. We must also enable them to move around in their respective areas. Today, we enjoy the privilege of cars which have been provided to us through grants. I do not see The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker for giving me this chance to make my contribution on this very important Motion. First, this country is in transition. We are moving from analogue to a digital way of doing things. I also appreciate the fact that we are in a digital government. The success of our county assemblies is the success of this Senate. This is because most of the work that is done today by our county assemblies sums up what the Senate is supposed to do. Yes, we are supposed to protect the interests of the counties and county assembly members who are supposed to make laws that will make or effect functions of county governments according to the Constitution. Therefore, we should empower our county assembly members through training them and ensuring that they have the capacity to use computers which are the main instruments used in ICT. We should also train them The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Kama vile wenzangu walioongea mbele yangu walivyofanya, mimi pia naunga mkono Hoja hii. Bw. Spika wa Muda, nakubaliana na Seneta wa Laikipia, Bw. G.G Kariuki, kwamba vile tunazihimiza serikali za kaunti zifadhili au zilete hali hii ya maendeleo kwa kuwapa uwezo wabunge katika bunge za Kaunti kuweza kutekeleza majukumu yao, huu kwa ukweli ni ushauri. Sisi tunawahimiza kuwa ni lazima waweke misingi na mikakati kwa vile hakuna namna. Kenya imepiga hatua katika mawasiliano na pale ambapo hatujapiga hatua ni lazima tupige hatua katika mawasiliano kama hayo. Kwa mfano, katika Chumba hiki ambamo tunakutana kama Seneti, ni lazima tuweke vifaa vya kisasa ambavyo vitaweza kuturahisishia sisi kuendeleza ratiba ya Seneti, mabunge ya kaunti na Bunge la Taifa. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Omar! You still have six minutes. You can continue from there tomorrow.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. This House is, therefore, adjourned until this afternoon, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 12.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.