Hon. Senators, I am informed that we have a quorum. Let us commence business.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a continuation of the Motion we had yesterday. Hon. Senators, it is the role of the Transition Authority (TA) to ensure that deployment of staff within the county governments and the national Government is done in accordance with the Constitution. The TA must make sure that employees who will opt to retire are paid their dues. Pension is a right of every employee. These are human beings who deserve to be treated in a humane manner. This is an issue of the livelihoods of Kenyans who have worked for us for many years. Yes, we are now in a new dispensation, but that does not mean that employees of the defunct local authorities be mistreated and denied their rights. The most important thing for us to bear in mind is that the structures were transited elsewhere. Therefore, it is time we dialogued together and came up with best solutions for the county governments and the national Government. We want services to be delivered to our people. Therefore, the governors, the TA and the national Government must sit together so that Kenyans do not blame devolution and see it as something that came to mess up their lives. We do not want to hear anybody saying devolution messed up his life. We, as the Senate, wish to see every Kenyan appreciate devolution as something that came to transform his life. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that we have many challenges in terms of creating employment in this country. As we think of where we will take the hundreds of thousands of workers who worked for the defunct 174 local authorities, we need to appreciate that as the staff are being deployed, some Ministries and departments were merged. How will we ensure that the mother ministry does not reject the same employee that was working for her at that time? These are some of the challenges that we will face in this new dispensation. I believe the TA is working on a framework which, hopefully, will absorb all the workers from the defunct local authorities. However, we should ensure that we vet the workers to ensure that those who mismanaged resources are taken to court and made to pay the monies that were meant to develop these counties. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important for the Senate to seriously follow up this issue with the counties. I believe every worker is asking the Senators: “What are you doing to ensure our payments and jobs are secured, based on labour laws, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?” We must make sure that we take care of Kenyans based on the Constitution that we passed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Hon. Senators, this is an amendment to the main Motion. The amendment will also require that we vote on the basis of counties. To start with, we were just consulting to determine whether we have the requisite numbers. I do not think we have the numbers. It is up to the author of the Motion to advise us.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know from the good old days, Wednesday mornings are very difficult. We normally start off very slowly. We are a bit The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is not fair to have a selective memory. Is it that in the good old days, you would have contributed to the amendment because Wednesday mornings are a bit slow? There was no other interest after Sen. Elachi spoke to the amendment. In the absence of further contributors, that is why the Chair was proposing to put the question. But then, since this is a matter affecting counties, we could not proceed because we do not have the requisite numbers. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, we welcome your intervention to contribute. But you should be alert.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the latitude. As a matter of fact it was hon. Orengo who engaged me in a very animated discussion which was very important, on a national issue of the Head of State visiting several counties in this country. I rise to support the original Motion, but even more vehemently support the amended Motion. This is not a Motion founded on theory. In many counties, Kakamega County being one of them, this challenge is there. In fact, my Governor is faced with a serious problem where 92 employees of the former urban councils have taken him to court. I am glad that this Motion is now here, so that we not only provide a solution for counties like Kakamega, but also put a standard that can help such cases that might come up. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support this amendment, it is important that we are alive to the fact that we had some unscrupulous mayors and clerks of the local authorities who just months before we went to the general election ended up hiring many undeserving cases. We have a case in Kakamega County where a whole family is listed as employees, including a 67 year-old mother of a former high ranking member of the local authority. She is listed as an employee. It is important that as we pass this Motion in its amended form, that this audit be done. We cannot speak for those people because they are the wanyonge and, at the same time, reward a wrong like the one that I have just referred to in Kakamega County. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of approaching the status of the former local authorities disturbs me because it looks like we have been so keen on speaking to the devolved funds, but we have been very quiet over many other funds. It is lost to this Senate that as soon as governors went into office, they found the former local authorities having cash in their accounts. They received cash that had, in the financial year, been budgeted for in the former Ministry of Local Government. They continue to collect revenue at source. It is important that the Auditor-General does a proper audit of all these monies, so that we know how much money these local authorities left on their account before the county governments became fully operational. We need to know how much money had been realised from revenue collection and how much money had been voted to these counties to the former Ministry of Local Government. All this money runs into hundreds of millions. Informally, I understand, we had up to Kshs56 million in the local authorities of Kakamega County. We had Kshs362 million released that was taken to this county. We must know where all this money is. I am convinced that all Senators should take up the responsibility of fighting corruption. We The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support the Motion and the amendment. It is fair that I mention that the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights had the privilege of meeting the TA yesterday. This issue is alive, serious and must be addressed as quickly as possible. From the admission of the TA, this matter will create what they call, an industrial strike if it is not addressed as quickly as possible. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the sentiments of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale on rationalisation of the members of the local authorities who were existing at the time. From the meetings we had with the TA, I am aware that this issue does not only affect the local authorities, but it also affects employees of the national Government in so far as counties are concerned. We are informed that governors have refused to accept some of these members who have been, in the words of the TA, seconded to these counties. Some of these staff are qualified. Therefore, it behoves the Senate to assist the TA in matters of this nature. In fact, I am aware, from our meeting with them yesterday, that this will form part of the discussions we are going to have in Mombasa when we meet at as a consultative forum. They are facing a lot of challenges, not only on this issue, but on many other issues. The Senate should take action as a result of what appears to be the discrimination of the members of the local authorities in attempting to offer employment to people in this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion in its amended version. Mr. Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, it is important that the exercise that is envisaged be done in accordance with the law. I have listened to, especially the contribution of Sen. Boni Khalwale on this matter. One thing that has attracted me is his views on whether some of these employees should be retrenched. I would have argued that there is no way that we can ignore the fact that retrenchment or redundancy is part of labour practices, not just in Kenya, but also in other parts of the world. I do not think that we can fight redundancy whether in the public or private sector, simply because somebody will lose a spouse or not be happy because they have been sent home, so long as the law has been applied. However, having said so, the only reason I support Sen. Khalwale on this one, is because the law does not envisage retrenchment. In particular, Section 57 of the Urban Areas and Cities Act says that those employees who were serving in the defunct local authorities will either be seconded or absorbed. So, it is either absorption or secondment. It does not envisage entrenchment. For that reason, I will agree in a very rare circumstance with the Senator for Kakamega on the basis of the law. Mr. Speaker, Sir, secondly, there is need - and this Motion has actually brought it to the fore - for the continued existence and strengthening of the TA. I have said and want to repeat it on the Floor of the House that I will oppose any measure aimed at dissolving or otherwise terminating the life of the TA, because there was wisdom in the framers of the Constitution, to create the TA and provide for a three-year period within which it will oversee the transition into devolved government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of audit, therefore, is something that should be done by the TA. I agree that there are so many ghost workers. Therefore, we cannot ask our counties to absorb all the unaudited or even audited baggage of, perhaps, not so qualified staff, because this will bring down the efficiency of counties. In any case, the reason the counties should not bear the burden of absorbing all these employees is the fact that the Constitution envisages to create a new brand in county governments. Our counties must run away from the brand of local authorities. They are not a continuation of county councils, urban counties and other local authorities that used to exist. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion as amended and commend the Mover for bringing it, particularly her concern for the position and interests of those who previously served in the local authorities or have been seconded to those counties or county governments. This is keeping on with the Constitution. The right to employment is important, if we are to build a caring nation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, there is something important to realize in debating this matter. In the previous local authorities, there were many people who were seconded or taken there by the central Government or those who were politically connected at that time. They used the local authorities as a reservoir for offering The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Issues of diversity and inclusiveness are sensitive in this country. Is the Senator for Siaya, therefore, in order to suggest that the national Government has not met the balances that are required of it in the Constitution? The Constitution demands that the formation of the national Executive and other agencies of the national Government must reflect diversity. That has been followed. Is the Senator for Siaya in order to mislead this House that balance has not been met?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was an English bishop who was asked to prove the existence of a stone. Instead of going into the academic theory of trying to conceptualize whether or not the stone exists, he said: “Kick it if you doubt its existence.” So, I just want the hon. Senator to one day even walk to the Office of the President and start from there, and then go the security forces. You will end up with the Chief of the Defence Forces who can suggest that those soldiers who were moving out of Westgate were carrying water. Sometimes when you have people from the same village, they can come up with all sorts of absurdities. Somebody was asking me yesterday whether this was the same Commander who led the Kenya Defence Forces to take care of the Somalia situation and if they needed plastic bags from Nakumatt to carry water.

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The Acting Senate Minority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also stand to support this Motion in its amended version. I want to appreciate or agree to the fact that those who served in local authorities in the past, as we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Zipporah.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My name is Zipporah Kittony. I am not used to one name. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion which has come at a very appropriate moment. I support the amended version. True to the word, if we are going to have devolution, I think it is only proper to do a proper vetting in our former local The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. Muthama.

Bw. Spika, nasimama kuunga mkono Hoja hii. Tumeingia katika muundo mpya wa Serikali na matumaini yetu kama viongozi ni kuona kwamba chanzo, mwenendo na mipango yote tunayofanya inawasaidia wananchi wote. Bw. Spika, waliozungumza kabla yangu wametaja mambo fulani. Ninataka kuyazungumzia mambo hayo kwa mapana na marefu ili tusielekeze lawama kwa Serikali kila mara. Leo Katiba yetu iko wazi sana. Tulibuni vipengele vingi sana katika Bunge letu la Kumi ambavyo vitasaidia serikali za ugatuzi. Bw. Spika, nikiangalia Hoja hii iliyoletwa na Sen. Elachi ni muhimu sana. Shirika la TA halina shida yoyote ila ni Serikali inayoleta matatizo. Chanzo cha matatizo haya ni magavana wetu. Hata hivyo, mimi sitaki kuwalaumu magavana, ila tu nataka kuwashauri. Katiba yetu inaruhusu Kenya moja. Tuna umoja wa Wananchi wa Kenya. Lakini ukiangalia kwa undani sana, utaona ya kwamba magavana wameweza kuchukua majukumu yao kwa nguvu sana. Hawataki kusaidiana na viongozi wengine. Bw. Spika, tumeshuhudia wafanyakazi wa Serikali wakitimuliwa kutoka ofisini na Gavana wa Machakos. Ofisi zao zimefungwa pasipo sababu maalum. Jambo hili linapofanyika, ofisi zinabaki bila mtu wa kutoa huduma kwa watu wetu. Wafanyakazi wanafutwa kazi ovyovyo bila sababu yoyote. Wakenya wako na haki ya kufanya kazi popote hapa nchini. Ni jukumu la Serikali kuwapa watu wake nafasi za kazi. Hakuna Mkenya kuanzia Mheshimiwa Rais hadi mtu wa kawaida aliye na uwezo wa kufuta mtu kazi bila sababu maalum. Hakuna kiongozi aliye na uwezo wa kufunga ofisi ya mfanyakazi yeyote wa Serikali. Katiba inahitaji sisi sote kuheshimiana. Ni lazima sisi sote tuheshimu haki za watu wetu, wawe matajiri au masikini. Katiba yetu imetupa haki sawa. Lakini magavana wanachukulia jambo hili kama ni muundo wa serikali za kaunti. Bw. Spika, tabia yao ni kama wameingia na kasumba ya kupindua Serikali na kudhani kuwa wao ndio wenye mamlaka ya kusimamia nchi nzima. Tusipotahadhari nchi hii itagawanywa katika misingi ya kikabila na magavana wetu. Ni lazima wajue ya kuwa kila Mkenya ana haki kufanya kazi katika kaunti yoyote. Ikiwa wewe ni Mkamba, unawezafanya kazi katika kaunti ya Kirinyaga. Ni aibu iliyoje kuona kuwa kuna magavana wengine ambao wanapenda kuitwa kwa jina maalum la “mtukufu”. Wengine wanafikiria kuwa wana mamlaka sawa na mheshimiwa Rais. Wamelewa na kasumba ya uongozi. Hii ndio maana wanafuta kazi wafanya kazi wa Serikali bila kujali watakwenda The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Motion. I would also like to thank the Mover of this Motion. I support the Motion with some amendments because the initial Motion would have left a lot of burden on the county governments. However, we now have an exit where the national Government has some ways of disposing of those who will not be absorbed by the county governments. I would like to follow up on what some Senators have contributed with regard to the TA. We are giving this job to the TA which may not be there to do the work. First, the TA should be protected for it to do its job. We already have problems in some counties. For instance, the TA staff that was seconded is already being replaced in some counties. The seconded staff is being replaced by governors. I am not sure what the TA will use to carry out this important activity of auditing local authority staff. The budget of the TA may not allow it to do this work. They have been given Kshs500 million which will not be enough for them to carry out any activities outside their offices. We need to come up with a way of ensuring that the TA will be there to carry out this work. This is an important activity because, currently, in my county, there is a lot of information being circulated in the social media with regard to the way employment of staff by governors is done. People are saying that it is not being done fairly. Once an audit has been done, we will have a clear picture of it. We should know about the communities represented in the former local authority’s staff that has been taken up by the county governments. We should know the balance in terms of the employees who have not been absorbed by the county governments. This is very important, especially in my county, where people are very sensitive on who gets what. This exercise by the TA will go a long way in ensuring that Kenyans do not lose their rights because of being laid off. The amendment says that this has to be done in a procedural way. The amendment says that the Government needs to take care of their retirement benefits because these are Kenyans who have been serving this country and who have dedicated their time to work in the local authorities. Just like any other Kenyan, they have rendered The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support the Motion. The issue of employees of the defunct local authorities is just one of the many problems that the county government and the national Government are yet to resolve. There are also issues which involve fixed assets, especially properties and immovable assets of the counties that disappeared from the records of the counties during the transition period. This particularly happened in areas where the local authorities were serving several counties. It is during this transition time that these items were not accounted for. It is important for this audit to be done so that we have a record of these items. I, therefore, support that an audit on these items be done. I also suggest that we edit the laws that govern the process of the TA. I seek your guidance as to what is contained in our Constitution in the Sixth Schedule, Part 4(18). This is just one of them. I will read so that it assists me. It says: “All local authorities established under the Local Government Act (Cap.265) existing immediately before the effective date shall continue to exist subject to any law that might be enacted.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of any law that has been enacted after this, but I stand to be guided. Therefore, this means that there is no law to guide on how to handle employees and properties that were in the local government. A law is required to guide handling of properties, including employees, particularly with the impending merger or amalgamation of parastatals. We will be faced with a lot of employees who will fall under the same category with those of the local governments. This means that we, as legislators, need to put in place laws that will guide this process after the audit has been done. There must be a law that the TA will use to handle the employees that they will find in the course of the audit they will conduct. I want to support this Motion. The national Government should look into the issue of employees who have been made redundant. A minor amendment requires that they be retired. I do not entirely agree with that because some of these employees are as young as 33 years old. I am not sure that you want to retire a 33 year old Kenyan who has a lot to offer to this country. I strongly support the fact that we should audit these employees, account for them and use a law to follow up on their situation. I beg to support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to talk about this important Motion which touches on one of the fundamental rights of any person, the right to work, the right to a decent living, among other rights. I would like to commend Sen. Elachi for bringing this Motion for us to debate here. I support it. I particularly support the amendment that has been put there to ensure that those who are not absorbed by the local authorities are either employed by the national Government or are, at least, given a pension or a golden handshake. That was a very important amendment. It is because of that amendment that I am supporting this Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Does it show she is a good mother or a good Senator?

Both.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have much to say, but I think I need to say something before this Motion comes to an end. I have listened to the contributions on this Motion and they have a case to talk about. The Motion itself is important in as far as reminding the Government that there is an outstanding issue that it must always be concerned about. It is quite possible that some people would be rendered unemployed without anybody taking responsibility. That is why this Motion is so important and it has come at the right time. This House is merely reminding the Government that there is a problem ahead of us. The other issue I want to commend about is the issue of diversity. We heard in the contributions about diversity and that people in certain positions appear to come from one tribe. This House should not think that it is a new thing which has just been discovered. The issue of diversity will take us a long time and will be there for quite a number of years because of how we are segmented. For example, if you want to look at the way Kenya can be just like the United States of America (USA), look at the former white highlands. Whether we like it or not, if we look at the white highlands, diversity is coming to an end. In the while highlands, people came from all over the country to settle. There is no one who claims to own those areas, compared to other areas where you find a Member of Parliament or a Senator coming from a traditional district where everybody speaks one language because there is no mix with other tribes. That is the advantage we have, most of us from Rift Valley, because we are from non-tribal districts. I do not know whether that is the way this situation can spread. In fact, if we look at the head of state in this country, we are forced to go back to the traditional districts. Therefore, we end up carrying all the burden of tribal thinking. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other issue is accessibility, relationship and closeness which brings in the problem of tribalism. I am not sure whether what I am saying is right or wrong, but Sen. Wako’s personal assistant or my personal assistant, are from our own tribes. Why does it happen that way?

On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Okay.

My personal assistant in Nairobi is a Kalenjin.

Thank you; you deserve credit because mine is a Kikuyu. I am trying to say this because when we are talking in this Chamber, we should not appear as if we are at war with anybody. These are things which are historical and are known. We need to pinpoint them, but not almost on the borderline of abusing others. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this important Motion brought to the Floor of the House by Sen. Elachi. I commend her for recognizing the plight of employees of the defunct local authorities. First, when one has to exit, there are ways in which one can do so. We work within laws and the labour laws that protect the rights of employees. When you have served in an organization for more than ten years, then you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senators, we have exhausted our time. We had one hour and 35 minutes. So, it is now time for the Mover to reply. Even before we do so, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In accordance with Standing Order No.51 (3), I would like to request that you defer putting the Question to the vote.

For what reasons, Sen. Elachi?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since this Motion affects the counties, we do not have the requisite numbers to put the Question to the vote.

So, you want it to which day?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, today in the afternoon sitting.

I think the Order Paper for today’s sitting in the afternoon is already in circulation. So, I propose we defer it to tomorrow afternoon. That will be for both the amendment and the Motion.

Next Order! GOVERNMENT SUPPORT TO TEA AND COFFEE FARMERS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, aware that Kenyan coffee and tea are the major agricultural export earners; further aware that Kenya is rated as the fourth largest tea producer and the second biggest exporter in the world and that Kenyan coffee is regarded as one of the best coffees in the World; concerned that in the recent past the tea and coffee production has tremendously deteriorated due to lack of commitment by the Government in supporting the tea and coffee farmers in the cultivation of these two crops; further concerned that the government has not been keen in coming up with marketing strategy for these two crops; concerned that Kenyan farmers are suffering a great deal due to lack of mechanization of agriculture; the Senate urges the national Government to support tea and coffee farmers by providing subsidized fertilizer to boost production as is the case of wheat and maize and actively get involved in the marketing strategy of these two crops and further that the national Government makes budgetary provisions to buy and store coffee and tea when the international market prices are down in order to sell when the prices improve.

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Madam Temporary Speaker, from the outset, I wish to start by thanking my good friend, Sen. Muthama, for being sensitive to the plight of the people of this country. Madam Temporary Speaker, since Independence this country has been an agricultural based economy. Our people have for all these years depended on the work of our farmers to keep this country going. Two of the major cash crops that this country has depended on for all those years have been tea and coffee. As very well articulated in the Motion that has been moved by my colleague, Sen. Muthama, it is clear that the Government has had a clear strategy in supporting farmers, especially who grow other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senators! Sen. Wamatangi is on the Floor giving his contribution.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I guess the issue of coffee is a good one and everybody is enjoying the contribution. Madam Temporary Speaker, the other very important cash crop that this country has been growing is tea. But the story about tea farming is slightly different because the tea industry has registered substantial growth. But it is important to note a few facts. One, that the coffee industry in Kenya is mainly divided into two sectors; the small-scale farmers and the integrated multi-nationals who have their own plantations and factories for processing their coffee. Since Independence, the small holders in this sector have exhibited a steady growth of about 60 per cent of the national tea production, which accounts for about 65 per cent of all the areas that have harvested tea in this country. Madam Temporary Speaker, the strongly integrated plantation process is such that the multi-nationals process all their tea in about 39 factories. The CPDA Law of 2007 established the Kenya Tea Development Agency (KTDA), which was expressly supposed to co-ordinate, process, and market the entire small scale holders’ tea production. At that time, the KTDA was the country’s biggest private company with over 15,000 employees and about 63 factories. Kenyan tea is sold through the Mombasa Tea Auction, which is the second biggest tea auction in the world, and it is operated by the East African Tea Traders Association. During the recent years, the industry has been facing several challenges that can be summarized as follows: Our tea farmers have been highly dependent on a few export markets; there have been low yields to the small scale-farmers because of the high cost of production and lack of credit facilities, low participation of the small-scale holders in the upper segment of the value chain and a deficient Government and management by the KTDA, which also attracts cess and levies which are paid by farmers. There has been a constant lack of innovation, research and extension of services to the small-scale farmers. Lastly, a deficient transportation infrastructure together with unreliable high cost of energy and supply are the other challenges that the Kenyan tea sector faces. As I wind up, Madam Temporary Speaker, it is important to note from some of the facts that I have presented that, in general, the Kenyan tea sector performance has been lower than that of the World’s Top Exporters (WTE). While average production in tea areas harvested under the WTE increased to 24 per cent and 18 per cent respectively between 2001 and 2010, the production only increased by 14 per cent in the harvested areas and 18 per cent respectively, implying that we are behind the other tea growing countries. Kenya does not have its own internal market so as to rely on the sale of its The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Muthama! This is your Motion. However, you are not allowing fellow Senators to make contributions.

(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. In doing so, I want to congratulate my colleague, the Senator for Machakos, Sen. Muthama. I agree with him fully, save in very few circumstances which are; number one, the fact that this Motion is about the future of crops which are very important to the economy of this country; tea and coffee. We cannot just say that the reason why tea and coffee farming has not performed well is because the Government has refused to do anything. That is not true. This is due to interplay of factors and not just lack of Government commitment. The Government does not grow tea or coffee. The Government can only facilitate by providing a conducive environment. Therefore, the language being used should be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Sen. Orengo and Sen. Moi! Please consult in lower tones.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I am almost becoming a stranger.

Order, Senator! There cannot be a stranger in the Senate. Proceed.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The mechanisation of these industries should be consistent with the objectives of this nation on job creation so that a balance is struck between mechanisation for enhanced productivity on one hand and on the other hand a labour initiative that tries to creates jobs for our people. That balance needs to come out in such policies. The other area which has been forgotten is the area of extension services and the support to farmers given by the Government. Under the new Constitution now, the role of extension services in agriculture lies in the county governments. What the national Government can do is to provide the agriculture policy but majority of the substance of agriculture like crop and animal husbandry falls within county governments. Again, that is something that the Mover of the Motion needs to perhaps reflect on because, actually, much of what is required to be done - the recipient of the resolution actually should be the county government and not the national Government because of the new scheme of devolution under our Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, having said so, many Kenyans will remember the days when we had extension officers in the villages to support crop and animal husbandry. This system has died in total and those services no longer exist. Perhaps time has come for us to think of some form of model legislation for counties which can help support and legalise extension services. I am saying this because counties need to share experiences and benchmark with each other. If we get extension services correctly, then crop husbandry will automatically be addressed. This is the missing link between agriculture in Kenya and agriculture in other countries. Madam Temporary Speaker, as I wind up my contribution, I also want to say that there is a link between the performance of our agricultural sector and national security. Those who have followed discussions at the World Trade Organization (WTO) debates will realise that agriculture is one of the most contentious topics in international trade negotiations. Every country in the world tries to protect its agricultural sector because any country that is not food sufficient and does not sustain itself agriculturally cannot even sustain national security. If you want to see riots even in the most stable democracies, they will revolve around food and agriculture. That is why countries subsidize agriculture. The reason I am making this point is because this Motion is calling for subsidization. I know there are debates which are sometimes supported by those who believe in liberal economics and liberalization of trade. If developing countries want to have national stability and national cohesion, they must continue subsidizing agriculture. In fact, it is ironical that even some of the rich countries continue to subsidize agriculture The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage!

Madam Temporary Speaker---

Order, Sen. G. G. Kariuki! The Speaker must balance contributions from both sides, the Majority side and the Minority side. The Speaker is seeing you and you will be given time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for reminding others that the Minority also needs to be recognized as a constitutional right. As I verily support this Motion as brought to us by Sen. Muthama, it is good to remember a few facts. First, I agree with the Majority Leader that insecurity can lead to reduction of production in agriculture. That is a fact and that is why we complain seriously when the Jubilee Government fails in that. I want to remember that support to agricultural production has been skewed by hitherto governments to areas that were considered to be “right”. We have had complete neglect of cotton production, sugar cane production, wattle production and pyrethrum production which were our mainstay in the generation of a lot of revenue just because some heavyweights in the former governments did find enterprising ventures into synthetics and importation of sugar using funny agreements with COMESA and hence, dampening the spirit of the farmers of these crops.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Senator for Migori has said that part of the problems in agriculture today have been caused by the entering into funny agreements with COMESA. I think that language is unparliamentary because if the intention of the Senator for Migori was to challenge the COMESA safeguards arrangement, that arrangement is pursuant to Article 61 of the COMESA Treaty of 1993 which is an international treaty ratified by Kenya. It is a bona fide treaty. So, the phrase “funny agreements” in my view is out of order, unparliamentary and it belittles the stature of international agreements.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, just point out what is out of order.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): The use of the words “funny agreements” as being the basis for affecting the---

So, can you reframe your statement?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Is the hon. Senator for Migori in order to use the words “funny agreements” in reference to the COMESA Treaty of 1993?

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, use parliamentary language in describing exactly what you mean.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I came to Parliament when Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki was a toddler and I know parliamentary language. The word “funny” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. When I stood here on my point of order, I was very respectful to the Senator for Migori County. I am not going to entertain rude utterances about who was a toddler when. I am the Senator for Tharaka Nithi, the Senate Majority Leader. I deserve my respect.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, is that statement out of order because it is not a fact; you were not a toddler when he came to Parliament? When did you come to Parliament, Sen. (Dr.) Machage? This is very serious and I want to make a ruling on it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I came to Parliament in March 2003.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, were you a toddler then?

(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, in 2003, I was a senior lecturer of international law at the University of Nairobi. I had a wife and two children.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, you are therefore out of order. You should withdraw and apologize.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I apologize and withdraw if that hurt my fellow Senator, but he was a young person all the same. He was also not in Parliament. The fact is I---

Proceed with your contribution, Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I refuse to agree with one statement from the Senate Majority Leader, that in this House we should not complain but only talk of constructive things. We will complain when the Jubilee Coalition Government is failing and it is failing in many issues which we will complain about. We can only use the Floor of the House to complain when they are failing. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not possible and it is known that it is difficulty really to move from a third world to a second or a first world country through engaging in agriculture alone; we must go into industry. But as we try to enhance production of these cash crops, we must think in terms of industrialization and hence think in terms of value- addition to whatever we produce. It is naïve that we produce our coffee, it goes to Britain and we import it back as Nescafe at a higher cost. That beats whatever profits we might have achieved. It is naïve for the little cotton that we produce to be exported and then we have to import linen into this country. These are some of the policies that we want to see the Government come up with to protect not only the level of production, but for value addition and to protect how much the farmer has to earn after this production has been done. If you look at crops like tobacco, the farmer in the village is paid about Kshs80 per kilogramme of tobacco whereas that kilogramme of tobacco will produce nearly 100 packets of cigarettes. Who therefore gets more profit? It is all exported in the form of foreign exchange to other countries other than this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. A lot has been said and I do not think that I will spend a lot of time repeating it. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to make a very small observation. First, the proponents of the new Constitution had all this in mind; that the country had gone wrong and was losing direction in every respect. This is because if a country can spend its resources to promote anything else other than food production, it leaves a lot to be desired. This country has about 40 million people, if we are right in our estimation. India has got 1.1 billion people and China more than 1.2 billion, and these countries are capable of feeding their own people. The problem that we have here today was experienced in India in 1954. The Indian Government decided to suspend all other developments and concentrated on financing agriculture for the next five years. If we could seal all the loopholes of losing our money for five years and put it in agriculture, we would stabilize this country forever. This is because the riots, as has been said by one of our Senators here, are created by people who have nothing to lose. If somebody has no food and has not eaten in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Shortened in the world or the Senate?

Madam Temporary Speaker, if we cannot change this country, the life of the Senate needs to be shortened in any way, because we are now almost appearing irrelevant. What can we claim that we have done better than the National Assembly? If we come here and ask the same questions--- I have a lot that I can ask about, but I keep asking myself: Is this really a House for questioning? It is a House of looking at the way the future should be for these young girls and boys, particularly--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Order, Senator! We do not have boys and girls in the Senate. We have Senators.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I think that I had better be given an opportunity. I was referring to the boys and girls who are growing to have a future. There are young people here and I respect them. But I think that they look at us and expect us to come out with something that can get them out of this economic quagmire and problems they have all the time. But when we are here, we seem not to realize that we have many people who rely on us. Madam Temporary Speaker, for example, in 1970 after being an Assistant Minister for four years and people were not being settled enough because we relied on money from Britain, I decided to collect quite a number of people and told them: “Please, come in; let us join together” and we bought about 400,000 acres and resettled 48,000 families. Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, there are many things that we can do if you really want to do something for your people. But if you just want to join the bandwagon of unscrupulous landlords and business people, then this country will go on, and on! We have wasted 50 years, and I would call these years, years of preparations. Now those who are there, the younger people, should move without talking about the past because the past is immaterial. You can tell us about what happened in 1960 or 1980, but it has nothing to do with us. What is going to help us is what is going to be there tomorrow and what I am doing here today; and that is my life. I do not now treat this process as a major thing. I always look ahead and see what is beyond the National Assembly, the Senate and Parliament. Can we be better than what we are? Can we be seen as a new crop of people who really see this world from a better perspective? This is what I personally think--- Madam Temporary Speaker, I know my time is coming to an end. Thank you very much---

Your time is not yet up; you still have two minutes.

I saw the lights on.

Just finish!

So, do you support or---?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do support the Motion.

I can see that hon. Senators are up on their feet.

I think they should now wait because there is something I did not talk about, especially the intention of my honorable good friend of having this crop managed for profit. In this country, Madam Temporary Speaker, we look at people in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs – the ambassadors we have in this country. When I was the Chairman of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Your time is now up, hon. Senator.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Orengo.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me a chance to support this Motion. I want to agree with Sen. G.G. Kariuki in his opening remarks that the proponents of the new Constitution had an idea about building a new constitutional arrangement where we would govern ourselves in a better way and where there would be standards in leadership and management of public affairs. I think this is an important starting point for anything that we want to do, be it in the agricultural sector or in matters to deal with security or any endeavor that we take as a country or as a nation. Madam Temporary Speaker, I just wanted to point out that if you look at the agricultural sector and the institutions which were put in place – some even before Independence – to take care of the agricultural and livestock sectors over the years, many of them were affected by incidences of corruption and mismanagement. If we go through some of the institutions that I have on my list, you would be surprised at how much damage we have done to ourselves. Take, for example, the Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC) which had so many farms and research institutions, growing everything from coffee to tea and also keeping livestock. What we saw over the years was the ADC farms being taken over and being given out as gifts to politically-connected persons. The same thing happened to the Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC). There was a time, until the NARC Government came in, when that important financial institution had become moribund; it had no funds and it could not finance farming and livestock activities, and it had to be revived. The same thing can be said about the Kenya Tea Development Authority (KTDA). You will remember that there used to be an Uplands Bacon Factory, which was a public institution that went under and the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC), which was responsible for training so many other similar institutions. In fact, if you go to Botswana, you will find that the Botswana Meat Commission was really a replication of the KMC. Similarly, our sugar factories were mismanaged. In fact, I remember at one time Nzoia Sugar Factory ordering for equipment for that factory. They bought machines that could not move on any road in Kenya. The equipment was not meant for Kenyan roads and the Nzoia Sugar Factory lost a lot of money. The same happened for the cashew nut factory in the Coast. There used to be a Sisal Board and a Cotton Board which were active; there used to be a Kenya Farmers Association (KFA), which was very robust and very extensive in its activities but it became moribund. With the Kenya Co-operative The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Agriculture continues to dominate Kenya’s economy thus being the largest contributor to Kenya’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). We have about 75 per cent of Kenyans who are employed by the agricultural sector. We are talking about coffee and tea but we also have other sectors like fisheries, livestock, cotton, flowers, other horticultural produce and even fresh produce. That is why I stand to defend this Motion and to support it. The relevant bodies, agencies and even the Ministry of Agriculture should take this issue seriously and provide a mechanism for sufficient and efficient production and even marketing of our produce, especially tea and coffee. Secondly, to promote coffee and tea production and trade, the Government needs to support farmers. This can be done either by providing them with fertilizer, advice or even giving them direction on what to do so as to enhance their production and even provide training to farmers and workers. The relevant bodies and agencies should promote good industrial relationships by ensuring good policies for farmers and improving production through the use of modern technology. Madam Temporary Speaker, as we talk about tea and coffee, it is sad to say that even the sugar industry has been ignored by the Government. Mumias Sugar Company in Kakamega County where I come from is going down. The farmers are suffering because they do not get their dues on time. It is important that as we look at the subsidies to be given to coffee and tea farmers, the bodies in charge of this type of agriculture also advise on what should be done to enhance production and to facilitate high profits of our goods and services in the local and international markets. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support Sen. Muthama’s Motion. I will start by saying that this Motion touches me on a personal level because my late father was educated using proceeds from coffee. The coffee is still in bonding and my father was growing it as a hobby because it was not making any money. I have a feeling that I will continue doing so as a hobby if this Motion by Sen. Muthama does not see the light of day. More importantly, I would like to say that unknown to many people, the coffee that is grown in high altitude areas including Kangundo, Mbooni and Makueni is of very high quality but the farmers who grow this coffee do not get any value for money as a result of which you find that most of these people are now growing coffee for the sake of it as opposed to very serious agriculture. The only factory I know in Mbooni is a coffee factory because coffee is the only crop that they have. Most of the coffee farmers in those areas continue to wallow in poverty because they do not get value for money. This is also something of concern because if we have to create wealth for purposes of counties, it is important that this crop that most farmers are growing is then used to create wealth. The other day, courtesy of Sen. Orengo, I had the privilege of over-flying the Mau Escarpment and there was a lot of tea that I saw. Tea occupies a lot of arable land in Kenya. This is a matter of national importance. Under Schedule 4, particularly paragraph 29, the national Government has an obligation to come up with what they are calling an agricultural policy. I am not sure what policy they have with regard to marketing of tea or the growing of coffee. Although Sen. Muthama has proposed that they come up with a strategy, I think that we should improve this even more because we have left these issues to the Government for too long and they do not seem interested. It is possible from what I have seen from this Motion; I would propose that Sen. Muthama, any other Senator or the Committee in charge, should look at this issue in detail. I have information from my friends and from the people who I was advising in regard to the Coffee Act that, in fact, there is a problem even at the auction. The problem at the auction has to be solved because if we did some research on coffee, we will find that our coffee is of high quality but people who grow it are not benefitting. We should go a step further and check what the market prices in the world are with regard to our coffee and we will discover that we are the losers. So, other than suggesting that they come up with a strategy, we must implore the Government to come up with policies. Madam Temporary Speaker, in terms of fertilizer, for the coffee that we are growing in Mbooni, I can assure you that subsidizing it and giving them fertilizer is not going to help. I have realized that the more fertilizer we put vis-à-vis the returns that you get, still does not help. Unless we look at the prices, even if we subsidize the fertilizer, the farmer is still not going to benefit. In the developed world, instead of the government coming up with a policy on marketing, the government buys the coffee, markets it and benefits the farmer. The governments then take over the responsibility of farming by providing facilities like extension services, fertilizer, mechanization, and then buy the coffee from the farmers. Once that happens, the overall beneficiary of this is the farmer. Although I am supporting the Motion, I want to say that the marketing of this product is not good enough. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand to support this Motion by Sen. Muthama and I also stand on my own right as a senior citizen. I am also a senior farmer, so I would like to say that this Motion has come at a very appropriate moment. I am saying that coffee and tea farmers should be subsidized. Senator number one said that this is a senior House and many good things can come out of this House. I totally agree with him because this applies to not only tea and coffee; another Motion should be brought here to address the issues that affect farmers in this country. I am saying this because even as a maize farmer, a lot has to be done. There is still what we call the “middleman” who benefits more than the farmer. This also applies to coffee farmers. God gave Kenya the best of everything. We have the best soil, good rains and so on. So, when we talk of coffee and tea, we are talking about our foreign exchange earner. Wherever you go in the world, our coffee and tea is praised but when you come back, many farmers do not feel like they own it. So, that issue needs to be addressed. I want to ask Sen. Muthama to consider an amendment to include the indigenous farmers who do other crops. When you look at areas like Mau, Kericho, Nandi and Limuru, the farms are not owned by Kenyans but other people. So, if they are not owned by Kenyans, whom do we want to subsidize? If this is a senior House and we want to address matters appropriately, let us do so properly so that we know what we are dealing with. So, I totally support this Motion. As a foreign exchange earner, the small-scale coffee and tea farmer need to be assisted. They should be given the necessary techniques or skills to be able to produce quality coffee. I am touched by this Motion, and as the Mover includes in his views what the other Senators have said, the terms should be improved. Through the Senate, every person in this country, especially the young people will enjoy posterity. With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to support Sen. Muthama’s Motion. When somebody speaks about a farmer, it is my passion and I want to congratulate the Senator for Machakos for coming up with this Motion. He The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I stand to support this Motion which is very important. I would also like to commend Sen. Muthama for bringing up this Motion and for thinking about our farmers. There are two sad issues about the coffee and tea farmers. First, there are actually two types of coffee and tea farmers as earlier stated; there are large-scale and small-scale farmers. The smaller you The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I just have about a minute or so. Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. First, I wish to thank the Mover of the Motion, Sen. Muthama, for bringing this Motion, which is very timely. Farmers are very hard working people, especially tea farmers, who are the most hardworking fellows. To date, after 50 or 60 years of planting tea, there are still individuals who are suffering. I say tea farmers are suffering because the plant tea itself is a plant that occupies the farm area of a farmer without allowing any crop rotation to take place. So, once land has been taken up or occupied by tea, the farmer does not actually have the opportunity to use that land for anything else. So, this farmer must get the maximum benefit from the plant of tea. Unfortunately, because you cannot do crop rotation; you cannot plant any other crops within the tea plantation. The farmers who farm this crop and who, unfortunately do not earn the maximum benefit from tea are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.

Hon. Senator, we will have to cut you short. You have eight minutes remaining and you will be the first to speak when we resume this debate tomorrow.

Hon. Senators, it is now 12.30 p.m. and the Senate stands adjourned to this afternoon at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 12.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.